Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

308: Left-Handed Streaming Service

Apple, TVs, and Apple and TVs. But not the Apple TV.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Jam bands and Monty Python 🖼️
  2. Unshaky (a.k.a. Megadebouncer)
  3. More on iPhone China revenue
  4. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  5. Firefox exists
  6. Sponsor: Away (code ATP)
  7. TV
  8. Sponsor: Audible
  9. Micro-LED TVs
  10. #askatp: Shortcuts
  11. #askatp: Podcast archival
  12. #askatp: Destiny stuff
  13. Ending theme
  14. Mac Pro Year

Jam bands and Monty Python

Chapter Jam bands and Monty Python image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was thinking about that the other day, about our differing definitions of jam band

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and how wrong your definition is. But that’s all right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You mean mine is good? I agree. They are very different.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because I feel like a jam band by definition is about improvisation. It is not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about what instrument is emphasized or what the particular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flair of music

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. Totally disagree. Jamming is about improvisation. But a jam band

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a specific musical genre.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know how to properly adjudicate this disagreement other than to say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel as strongly as you the other direction that it is little to nothing to do with a particular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flavor of the music but more about the style—not the style

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a wrong word there. It’s about the fact that they improvise. So as an example,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it would be terrible but there is no reason in my world that you couldn’t have a death metal jam

⏹️ ▶️ Casey band. Like if they’re all about improvisation, and if every show sounds very different,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure, they’re a jam band. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I kind of jam band, but it’s a jam band.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I mean, that’s like saying like, anybody who raps is making rap. True. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not necessarily, no, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like rapping is, I mean, they

⏹️ ▶️ John should be rap. Rapping is a verb. Making rap may be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whitest thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you’ve ever said.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John know. Maybe this is a bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco example, because I don’t know anything about this, but like, like, anybody can rap as part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of some other genre of music, but then there’s also a genre named

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rap that includes rapping but is also a genre. Jam band is a genre

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of music that refers to a specific style of music that includes jamming. Other bands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who are not jam bands and are not playing jam band music can jam, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not necessarily… that doesn’t make them a jam band. And the category,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the musical genre jam bands does not include all songs from all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bands that include jams. Paul

⏹️ ▶️ John Matzko, Jr.: I don’t think I ever heard the term jam band until I heard you, Marco, discussing

⏹️ ▶️ John it in this context. And I just like to continue to think of it as a band that’s really into like fruit preserves,

⏹️ ▶️ John like that kind of band.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Because that sounds much

⏹️ ▶️ John more appealing than either of your definitions.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Mark Miller, Jr.:

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They jammed our radar, John. That’s a reference, by the way.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Paul Matzko, Jr.: Marco hasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey seen it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nope. Mark Miller, Jr.: No, I bet he’s seen Spaceballs. Come on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Paul Matzko, Jr.: He hasn’t. a long time ago, like like I think like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey in high school or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco college and I I found it incredibly unfunny in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John part. I got a movie, but yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in part because it isn’t very good and in part because I had one of the situations where like my friends had quoted it to me too much beforehand,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so I was like it’s similar. See also Monty Python. I didn’t think that was funny either for the same reason,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like my friends had been quoting it to me badly for years before I ever saw it. So by the time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did see it, it sounded like my annoying friends, not the movie, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know? Unlike Spaceballs, Monty Python is not one thing. So they probably quoted

⏹️ ▶️ John things that you are now sick of, but there’s so much Monty Python that they weren’t quoting that you couldn’t theory watch, whereas Spaceballs

⏹️ ▶️ John is just the one movie.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But see, the problem is though, I got quoted Monty Python so much by other people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in like high school that the entire style of Monty Python humor sounds like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my annoying friends.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, Monty Python isn’t really a style of humor, it’s a genre. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Here

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey we are all over again. It all comes back around.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re more of jam comedians. I don’t know. Oh, God. I’m just

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John nowhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, in the defense of Marco—see, this is why I am not a good debater

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or arguer, because in the defense of Marco, I think the canonical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey example jam band is someone like a Fish or a Grateful Dead. And I think Fish and Grateful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Dead, to my ears, have very, very similar sounds. And I apologize if that’s like blasphemous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I genuinely don’t mean it to be. But to my ears, they’re very, very similar, very guitar heavy, very happy-go-lucky,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, a very, very similar sound. But I would contest and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey posit that it is not compulsory to have a guitar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey heavy, happy-go-lucky, you probably are high as s*** on weed when you listen to it sound,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which by the way, is also applicable to Dave Matthews. But you don’t have to be high in order to enjoy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. I think that it that to me a jam band is all about improvisation. Somebody said in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chat, you know, does that make all of jazz or every like jazz group of jam band? I mean, yeah, if you want to use a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I suppose I don’t see why not because jazz is all about improvisation.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, Casey, I was I wanted to remain neutral in this argument. But the more you talk,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the more

⏹️ ▶️ John I start to agree with Marco. Tell me why.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because

⏹️ ▶️ John you just it’s you’re going into robot or not territory. That’s why you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey drawing

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m waiting

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey for you to jump in on this. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re saying like, well, if you think about it, you know, your definition is so broad it starts to include things that are ridiculous like jazz.

⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, exactly. Like a jam band, and you know, Grateful Dead was a good example. I wouldn’t say there’s as much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overlap between them as Fish as you think, but that’s only because you don’t know them very well. That’s fine. They do share a genre. Grateful Dead,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, was the first jam band in the category, and they largely defined the category, and their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fandom largely defined the category. more about the style of music than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the actions in the music or the components. Does that make sense?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like jamming is an action or like a component. Like it’s not a musical style or a genre

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because you know jazz is a great like jazz sounds nothing like Fish or Grateful Dead or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Dave Matthews or anything like that. Like it sounds nothing like any of these bands but it is the action of jamming. It includes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that right? Jam bands include that too but jam bands are a genre of music that does not include jazz.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t really think it’s jazz. I think that that person, whoever it was, was trying to poke

⏹️ ▶️ Casey holes in my argument. And to me, it doesn’t include jazz, but yeah, by the definition I gave you, which is it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being predominantly about improvisation, then sure. Reading from Wikipedia, which is on the internet, so it must be true, in the early

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 1990s and 2000s, a new generation of bands was spurred on by the Grateful Dead’s touring and the increased exposure of the Black Crowes, My Morning

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jacket, Dave Matthews Band, Widespread Panic, and Aquarium Rescue Unit. Many of today’s jam bands have brought widely varied

⏹️ ▶️ Casey genres into the scene. A jam band festival may include bands with electronic folk rock, blues rock, jazz fusion, psychedelic rock,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey southern rock, progressive rock, acid jazz, hip-hop, hard rock, and bluegrass sounds.

⏹️ ▶️ John To be clear, when I was saying I agree with Marco, it was about whether the definition is as broad. It was about the definition. I

⏹️ ▶️ John know nothing about Dave Matthews, so I can’t say what definition they fit in. I was just saying, trying to define

⏹️ ▶️ John it as just any kind of music with improvisation or that being the essential part of it just seems wrong to me because that includes too much

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. All these bands they named, I recognize like two of the names that can

⏹️ ▶️ John name like one or two songs, so I have no idea if any of these bands fit into the definition.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I think the definition is a lot narrower than just music that includes improvisation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a tough call.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, everyone check out Church’s, they’re really good. Wait, like the buildings? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John spelled with a V, Marco. It’s very complicated.

Unshaky (a.k.a. Megadebouncer)

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s apparently a software-based fix to your MacBook Air, John, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is Unshaky by Underscore Sam.

⏹️ ▶️ John I kind of missed out on a cool name for this. I’ll describe what it is and then we can suggest some

⏹️ ▶️ John cooler names. Sometimes on newer MacBook Pro keyboards, when you hit a

⏹️ ▶️ John key, you might get two or zero of the key that you pressed, even though you think you did what is a normal

⏹️ ▶️ John key press. How can we fix that, aside from Apple making a better keyboard? well, uh, industrious

⏹️ ▶️ John people like this person whose name, as far as I could determine is underscore Sam, not to be confused with underscore David Smith,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, made this thing that you can install on your computer and it will try

⏹️ ▶️ John to intercept your, all the keystrokes or, you know, the key input as you

⏹️ ▶️ John type on your computer and sort of mega debounce your keys. So we discussed

⏹️ ▶️ John the bouncing before where the, you know, the, the firmware or software that is involved

⏹️ ▶️ John in your keyboard, waits for the key to settle before determining whether it’s a key press or not, because it bounces

⏹️ ▶️ John microscopically when it hits, right? So this is like, all right, I’m gonna wait for it to stop bouncing, and then

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna wait a little bit more. And if there’s two letters that are the same right after each other really, really

⏹️ ▶️ John quickly, like so quick that maybe it might not even be humanly possible to hit them that quick unless you were

⏹️ ▶️ John really trying, like trying to play summer games or something on your computer, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just gonna count that as one. So that’s what Unshaky does. I think a Mega Debouncer would have been a cooler name. I think it’s sad

⏹️ ▶️ John that this has to exist. I think it’s cool that Underscore Sam made it exist, and I might actually try installing it.

More on iPhone China revenue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Horace DeDue has pointed out some interesting facts and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey figures with regard to iPhone quarterly revenue growth or not over the last eight quarters.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m assuming it was John that came up with this, but I’m going to steal your thunder and read them out. So for the last eight quarters from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oldest to newest, 1% growth, 3% growth, 2% growth, 13, 14, 20, 29, negative 15 for last quarter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Whoops. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John the numbers don’t really tell much, which is why I made this little tiny sparkling graph that you probably can’t see and we probably won’t even bother putting

⏹️ ▶️ John the notes. But the tail that the numbers tell is not only was

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone revenue like it was like iPhone sales have flattened out, but we’ve been increasing the prices. So the revenue

⏹️ ▶️ John may could still go up. Not only was the revenue going up, this is not like how much money they made this graph. This

⏹️ ▶️ John is the growth, right? So this is this is the rate of change. The rate of change was

⏹️ ▶️ John it was increasing. So it was like 1% growth, 3% you know, it was going up, up, up, and

⏹️ ▶️ John right at the peak it takes a huge nosedive. So it’s not like this was a gradual thing where sales,

⏹️ ▶️ John where iPhone revenue was on the way down and then just dip below some threshold.

⏹️ ▶️ John It went from going up pretty quickly to rock bottom. So

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s part of why the story has a lot of drama behind it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it is pretty intense, that graph. I will try to remember to put it in the show notes, but you can envision

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it is pretty ugly.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not a good graph because it doesn’t label. Again, this is revenue growth. I’m assuming it’s year over year,

⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe it’s quarter to quarter. I don’t know. Horace,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey listen to Horace’s

⏹️ ▶️ John podcast to find out for sure. But the bottom line is it’s not just numbers. It’s not just like I sold five widgets,

⏹️ ▶️ John then 10 widgets, then 11 widgets. This is a rate of change. And the next follow-up item relates to this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that would be that Samsung and LG have released their financial results. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a pretty bad dumpster fire for everyone involved, it seems.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and guess what’s bad? China. Who knew? They all, anyone who has anything to do with

⏹️ ▶️ John the smartphone industry and has ever, there’s other companies included in these stories too that I took

⏹️ ▶️ John out because there’s a bunch of companies that have like, they’re like, this company has not made money selling smartphones

⏹️ ▶️ John since 2014 so we don’t include them because they’ve never been making money or whatever. But the other big players

⏹️ ▶️ John in the smartphone market also all had a bad year in China and are having bad results

⏹️ ▶️ John because I don’t know if it was smart for Apple to be the first one to say, Hey, guess what? Our

⏹️ ▶️ John results are going to be worse than we thought. And we’re doing really bad in China, but everyone else is saying the same thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so it seems like the China story is definitely the real deal.

⏹️ ▶️ John As who pointed this out, Ben Thompson pointed this out to me, as we’ll find out at earnings, even though I talked about on the last

⏹️ ▶️ John show, like, that’s what Apple says, but they just gave us overall numbers. When they announce earnings, they do still

⏹️ ▶️ John break stuff down by region. They don’t give you unit sales, but they do break down all of their other numbers by region. So

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll be able to validate Apple’s report that this is all a China issue.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then we can see like, oh, China was in the crapper, but in the United States, the growth continues

⏹️ ▶️ John or, you know, things were flat or whatever. So we’ll find that out when we do actual earnings.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One thing I want to add to this, there was a great discussion on upgrade this past week on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this whole mess and other related topics. But yes, Apple said like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, this is due to losses and, you know, basically contractions of the market in China or lower demand in China.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can look at this and you can say, well, you know, apparently a lot of things are taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a hit in China, not just the iPhone specifically. So it isn’t necessarily Apple’s fault

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the iPhone isn’t selling as well because of factors X, Y, and Z that are like macroeconomic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco factors in China, specific macroeconomic factors, and so on. Isn’t it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people at apples job to try to forecast this stuff?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but like you know you can’t tell the future.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, you can’t tell the future very far in advance, but like they when did they issue this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guidance like October one quarter ago like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the right. It’s not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco October November right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like it wasn’t that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like even then and by the way the issue guidance that is a range of what they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think might happen. So, and there was a great article also by Ben Thompson on Stratechery about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, I think two days ago now, looking at the timeline of when Apple had to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these predictions on their earnings versus, it was only a couple days into sales

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iPhone XR or something like that. So it was very, they had to basically guess how many XRs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they would sell, and they had maybe one month of data on the S line, so it seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they probably predicted way too high on the 10-R, and that was causing basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this problem. But isn’t it their job to look at the economic climate all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over the world and to base predictions on that? Like, for them to have made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a significant miss in a relatively short-term prediction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco requires a lot of optimism and factors that turn out not to be true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m not saying this is a reason for anybody to be fired, but I save those accusations for when it matters more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but but um but I think like it’s you look at this and it’s like it’s not you know apples framing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it in in the letter. It’s like this is something that happened to us basically, but it’s their job to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forecast things like this. They have they should have the best resources in the world at trying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to look at world markets and what’s happening. There have been signs for a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while now that the world economy is on shaky ground and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after a period of things being kind of good, it’s cooling down like that’s been that’s been evident

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a while. I don’t follow trying to stuff at all because I don’t know anything about it, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who do when they heard apples report they’re like yeah of course that makes sense because China is contracting or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s a it’s been a hard you know hard time in China recently. So it’s like when they’re making their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco predictions and they’re issuing their guidance and they didn’t just miss their guidance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by amount X, they fell below the bottom of the range of guidance by that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much. With such a short time horizon, I have to imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this wasn’t just something that happened to them. Oops. It was actually a significant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco misprediction and misunderstanding of the market that they should have had a better understanding of.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like saying it’s a basketball team’s job to score more points than the other team. It’s their job to score more points than

⏹️ ▶️ John the other team. Why didn’t they do it? They should have known what the other team was going to do. They have all the tape of the other team playing. Why didn’t they just score more points? And

⏹️ ▶️ John like I would be more on your side if they were the only one who missed. But seeing the results from everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John else saying, yeah, we had it worse is because China took a nosedive steeper than people predicted. The

⏹️ ▶️ John people who saying, yeah, it makes sense are saying it from now when we see the nosedive that China’s taken,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, last quarter or October or whenever, when they’re making these predictions, those same people, if asked to make predictions

⏹️ ▶️ John for Apple, there would have been some range. Some would say that Apple’s predictions are high. some would say they’re low or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like I don’t think Apple is unique in this position. And sometimes things are on a trajectory. And Apple does

⏹️ ▶️ John predict these trajectories, which is why sometimes it’s earnings that they predict are lower than Wall Street expects when

⏹️ ▶️ John they say, are here’s our guidance and Wall Street’s like, oh, we don’t like that guidance. Right. But it turns out to be right on like there.

⏹️ ▶️ John They have a pretty good record of getting their guidance. This is a more dramatic downturn

⏹️ ▶️ John than companies expected. And every company that’s in the same business as them is saying, yep, it’s more dramatic than we expected to. Are

⏹️ ▶️ John they all incompetent is all their jobs to predict. Sometimes things just go down faster than you think they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to. I that’s I mean, again, I’m not deep into this world. But seeing from

⏹️ ▶️ John a high level view, seeing a bunch of very similar competitors having the same story about how things

⏹️ ▶️ John are happening. It makes sense to me, you know, sometimes things go down fast and you think they’re going to if

⏹️ ▶️ John if there are people who could track the market within this narrow percentage window,

⏹️ ▶️ John as well as that they would just not make devices and they would just play the stock market or, you know, do like

⏹️ ▶️ John commodities trading and not bother actually having to try to do the hard work of making something instead. Just make money off of their

⏹️ ▶️ John amazing knowledge of how exactly the world’s going to go. I mean, to be fair, there are a lot of people who do that. They try,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I’m saying like if they had like if you could, if you could predict the movement of the markets to a

⏹️ ▶️ John to a degree where you wouldn’t make a mess like this in this situation, you know, three

⏹️ ▶️ John months ahead of time, that’s a pretty amazing ability to predict.

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Firefox exists

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey It seems that anytime we scoff at Chrome, because it’s, it’s really bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Somebody wants to come out of the woodwork to to remind us that Firefox is not dead, and is in fact, still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a thing. And in this case, it was Christopher Tipper who wanted to who wanted to write us or did write us and say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, I’m curious how there’s a whole conversation about Edge without any mention of the other viable browser, Firefox.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not about to advocate for it, though I’ve relied on it for a long time, and it’s not the browser you were using five years ago

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anymore. But how sensible is it to complain about a lack of diversity when people are too lazy to switch? And that actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a pretty decent question. I mean, to me, it is not. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is not a decent question. First of all, we

⏹️ ▶️ John did mention Firefox, albeit in passing, but we did mention it. Maybe got it at the episode, but it was definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John mentioned. And what, what good is it to complain about the lack of diversity when people are too lazy to switch? Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John first of all, it’s like, it’s like there’s a certain number of browsers and one goes away. We want there

⏹️ ▶️ John to be diversity. So a decrease in the number of major browsers out there is a decrease in diversity. What sense does

⏹️ ▶️ John it make to complain about a decreased diversity? It may be the point is it doesn’t matter how many browsers there are, because people only use

⏹️ ▶️ John one or two, but the browser that went away is one of the ones that has

⏹️ ▶️ John the most, you know, power behind it to get people to use it because it comes bundled with windows and historically

⏹️ ▶️ John has been a very popular browser, whereas Firefox is a third-party download and much more difficult to get people to switch

⏹️ ▶️ John to. This is a browser that people would end up using mindlessly because you have to know to install Chrome or

⏹️ ▶️ John know to install Firefox, and if you don’t do that and you have Windows, this is the one you would have been using. So I think

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not a particularly good point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well, also, it’s not,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we aren’t all in the world using Firefox or not using it because we’re lazy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re not using it because it hasn’t been very good for a very long time. And if it’s good now, cool. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good luck to them. Maybe I’ll check it out. But it was not very good for a very long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. And that’s a very good reason for a lot of us not to have used it. Yeah, it

⏹️ ▶️ John is. It is better now to be fair, but it’s got such a hurdle. Like it’s if Firefox went away, we’d also be sad because we’d be like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s decreasing the browser diversity. Like it’s the other, you know, one of the major, it’s one of those big ones up

⏹️ ▶️ John there. There’s not that many, as we talked about, making a modern web browser engine is incredibly difficult and resource

⏹️ ▶️ John intensive. That’s why there aren’t a million of them. So losing any one of them is bad. But

⏹️ ▶️ John losing Firefox would probably be less impactful than losing

⏹️ ▶️ John Internet Explorer, Edge, or whatever, simply because Firefox is a third-party browser that has to convince people on its merits

⏹️ ▶️ John to use it, whereas the one that comes bundled with Windows has an immediate advantage, just like the

⏹️ ▶️ John one that comes bundled with iOS has an immediate advantage, and to a lesser degree, the one that comes bundled with the Mac. So

⏹️ ▶️ John It would have been bad for any of these players to disappear. Any of them disappearing is a decrease in diversity.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s particularly bad for one of the most powerful, most important ones to

⏹️ ▶️ John disappear.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the version of Firefox that I’ve been judging it on apparently was not the current version and had no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco auto updating to the current version?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the auto

⏹️ ▶️ John updaters in Firefox, at various times in the semi-recent history, meaning the last five years, have stopped working and

⏹️ ▶️ John refused to auto update to the next major version. They’ve just prompted you, go download the new version, which I’ve done, and so you will eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John get to the newer version, but it’s weird that they don’t chain their, at certain points they stop chaining

⏹️ ▶️ John their order of updaters, so like, we give up, just go and down, they send you, they say go to this place and

⏹️ ▶️ John download it, but it’s kind of weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I keep Firefox as my third browser, basically. I have Safari primary, I have Chrome as my secondary and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of like Google and Facebook if I have to kind of thing, and then Firefox

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of like my third one, like if I need another login account for, like say if I’m I’m testing overcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I need like a third browser that has a different account logged in for one of the tests I’m doing or something like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John curious. We have this whole conversation about browsers and no one’s mentioned opera yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, because the the opera user is not part of this podcast. But anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I decided, okay, let me let me give it a fair shot granted in you know in the two minutes since before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we talked about it. So I went to the Firefox site. I downloaded the newest version of Firefox

⏹️ ▶️ Marco installed it and open it up and browsed to a few sites and poked around a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And first thing I did was resize the window because it was the wrong size. And like the resize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco animation is wrong. Like it was like all jaggy, like it would like have like, you know, black clipping artifacts as you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resize it. Like it’s not a smooth resize. I noticed when scrolling it does not bounce

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on top and bottom the way both Chrome and Safari and every other scroll view on Mac and iOS do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And finally, when I went to my own website,, the logo,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the orange on Overcast’s site is wrong because I have a P3 display

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they’re rendering the regular, you know, whatever the regular RGB.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know what you’re thinking of. I can never keep it straight.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I thought it was SRGB. It’s probably SRGB.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So, you know, my SVG and my website specify like regular color, not wide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco color. And it seems to be mapping that incorrectly onto the wide color display. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the colors are way too bright in the oranges and overcast. So my initial impression

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not very positive that like all these basics are still really crappy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m kind of thinking this is going to remain my third browser. The

⏹️ ▶️ John color thing is actually one of the reasons that it’s so hard for third party browsers to get traction because it could be I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know this particular situation, but it could be that what Firefox is doing is technically correct to the letter of the law

⏹️ ▶️ John according to the standards and that both Safari and Chrome fudge it a little bit and sort of do

⏹️ ▶️ John what you’re do what you mean like, you know, some some minor violation and how you’re supposed to specify color spaces

⏹️ ▶️ John or something. They let it slide, but this one doesn’t, but it doesn’t matter who’s correct when it looks

⏹️ ▶️ John good in the browsers that have the mass of the most market share, right? Your your

⏹️ ▶️ John other browser Firefox is the weird one. Chrome had the same problem when it was introduced. Chrome was the weird one. It’s like, oh, this site

⏹️ ▶️ John works on IE, but it doesn’t work in Chrome, right? That’s the hill you have to climb. If you’re a third party browser and you want to get traction and you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have a platform to be your tractor, you have to deal with stuff like this. You have to say, okay, well, even though

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re technically right, and again, I don’t know if this is a case where they’re right or not, but there are cases like that, even though we’re technically right,

⏹️ ▶️ John let’s do the thing that the other browsers do so that sites work like that was the hill safari had to

⏹️ ▶️ John climb to even though it was, it was, it was, it had the support of the entire platform. It still had to had

⏹️ ▶️ John to climb the hill because when it came out, I believe I was still on the Mac and so was Firefox. So that Firefox

⏹️ ▶️ John was bigger than it at that point. And it had to render sites as well as IE or Firefox or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey This week is CES week, which I have never really found that terribly interesting,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s even less so now, but that’s okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But Casey, how are we going to ever get so excited about all the different TV

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technologies and other technologies that always debut at CES and then always come out into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shipping products later and are definitely as good as they’re promised and come out anytime soon?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s not fair.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not fair at all. Because if you’re bored by TV technology, then fine. But

⏹️ ▶️ John they showed it at the show and for the most part, the things they show at the show become products that ship in the year

⏹️ ▶️ John of the show that they showed it or at some, you know, Or they say this is not for this year, whatever. It’s no different than any other sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John tech show or Apple presentation, specifically on TVs. Other tech, who knows? Like they show the machine that folds your own laundry,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s probably never gonna exist or whatever. Or only, you know, it’ll be ridiculously expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John and not work that well. But the TV stuff, it’s pretty much like, this is this year’s crop of TVs

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re gonna release them. Sometimes it’s later in the year than you want it to be, but we’re gonna release them this year and

⏹️ ▶️ John this is what they’re like. And then also here’s a bunch of wacky TV tech. And I do have a topic after the one we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John actually gonna talk about, we probably won’t even get to the show, about specifically TV technology, which I find exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ John All the rest of CES, I can take or leave.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey At any case, it came out, I don’t know, it was a couple of days ago, it doesn’t really matter when, but it came out in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fits and spurts that Apple is apparently partnered with a lot of major TV manufacturers in order to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey include iTunes and or AirPlay 2 and or HomeKit in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey several major manufacturers TVs. So the first shoe to drop, I believe, was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Samsung. And they have said that Samsung’s 2018 and 2019 range of TVs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will be able to access and play your iTunes movie and TV show library. And you’ll also be able to buy and rent content from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iTunes directly from the TV. And of course, it will support AirPlay 2. Then later on, Vizio and LG

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, yeah, we’re going to get the AirPlay 2 thing. We’ll get HomeKit support. Maybe, maybe not on the iTunes thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sony, I believe, said the same. I don’t have the information in front of me. That’s OK, though. And then Apple has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually updated their AirPlay page to say, hey, a bunch of this stuff is happening. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is interesting to me and I think exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually find it very hard to get excited about anything TV related. Our TV in the house, as I’ve said before, is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ancient. It’s 40 inches. I have no intention of upgrading it anytime soon. I just don’t, I don’t get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey revved up about TV stuff like you and Marco, you, John and Marco do. Uh, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you should look at this different Casey. Your TV is so old and it’s only 40 inches you are in the market

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey maybe this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should be very exciting to you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey except. I don’t think I want to spend the money on this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John stuff But

⏹️ ▶️ John you are in the market though because every year they come out with new fancy TVs the less fancy ones get cheaper

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey cheap

⏹️ ▶️ John now. They’re getting down into case territory getting down into I don’t care about TV territory

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough In any case I do think this is interesting because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is not the sort of move that Apple of the past often made. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they did from time to time, but this is not the sort of thing that you saw that often in the past. And as paired with,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what is it, Apple music going to Amazon’s Echo line of products, Apple is really,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, really starting to walk the services walk, which I don’t know if that’s good or bad. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know if I’m excited or sad, but one way or another, it’s different and interesting. And actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking of upgrade, a friend of the show, Mike Hurley, had some very interesting tweets about this. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think it was right when this, this information first dropped and I’m going to butcher

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what Mike said and I’ll try to find the link for the show notes. But basically he said, Hey, look, Apple is not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really the same company was even just a couple of years ago, much less five, 10, 15, 20 years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you as an Apple fan are going to decide if you want to be on board with this or not,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and either decision is fine, but they’re different now. And this is a very exciting and interesting time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be watching and interested in Apple. And I think that that was very astute of Mike. And I think that this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey broadening of their willingness to put their content on other people’s devices

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a perfect example of that, which is what Mike was saying.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m glad I got to get on to Upgrade before Mike and make that same point. What was he? He was like on vacation or something?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I forget. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forget,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it was episode 222. I’ll put a link in the show notes where I talked about this very issue, not in the context

⏹️ ▶️ John the TVs because of course none of these announcements had been main, but we were talking about it in the context of music. It was just me and me and Jason,

⏹️ ▶️ John um, to get back to the TV stuff for a second, all those TV announcements that you listed, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John basically all the important TV players. Like I think there’s TCL wasn’t listed, right? But I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not sure what their deal is. Maybe they’ve since made an announcement, but, uh, the, the little snippet on the airplay page,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s airplay page, which probably you say something like airplay is a great way for you to wirelessly send your video to your Apple devices

⏹️ ▶️ John and blah, blah, blah, Right. Now it says to your Apple TV, favorite speakers

⏹️ ▶️ John and soon popular smart TVs. And so, you know, it’s clear that Apple is

⏹️ ▶️ John not just like making one deal with one thing like they are reframing their technologies, not as a way, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, in the example, in case of airplay, not as a way for you to send your video wirelessly among your Apple things, but as a way

⏹️ ▶️ John for you to send your video wirelessly to your TV and Apple doesn’t even make a TV. So it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John got to be, you know, third party TVs and they didn’t just do a deal with one. They did a deal with as many as they could, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like. So they had, even though the announcements trickled out, it’s clear that this has been sort of a full court press. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s easier to just listen to me rant about this on Upgrade if you want to hear a longer version. But the short version is,

⏹️ ▶️ John and in the context of the discussion I was having with Jason, if you have any kind of service

⏹️ ▶️ John where someone’s going to pay you and then you get to watch TV shows or listen to music or something like that,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s very difficult to be in the market at all if for people

⏹️ ▶️ John to use your service, they have to do some specific thing. Like you

⏹️ ▶️ John want the largest addressable market as possible. You don’t want to say we will sell our music service

⏹️ ▶️ John only to people with blue eyes, like only the people who own BMWs. Like why

⏹️ ▶️ John would you limit your audience that way? If you have a music streaming service, sell it to anyone who will give you $10 a month. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John sell it to everybody. Like, I’m sorry, you can’t use our music streaming service, only left-handed people can. That’s a bad music

⏹️ ▶️ John streaming service. And how are you going to make the economics worth if you only sell to left-handed people? There’s just not enough of them,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? So the, the, uh, you know, technology version of being left-handed is we

⏹️ ▶️ John will only sell you iTunes content. If you own an Apple device,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple does not have massive overwhelming market share in any of the markets where it sells devices. It doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John overwhelming market share in phones. It doesn’t have it in computers. It doesn’t even sell TVs. Doesn’t have it in TV

⏹️ ▶️ John puck devices. It’s not a good idea to have a service of any kind,

⏹️ ▶️ John music or, you know, television or movies or whatever, and only be able to sell it to people

⏹️ ▶️ John who buy your hardware. And the whole thing, you know, I think what Mike was getting at is the whole notion like, well, Apple does all this stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s just a way to sell you high margin hardware. Even though Apple’s hardware margins

⏹️ ▶️ John are still very healthy. In the end, unless Apple says something radically different,

⏹️ ▶️ John it would be a Herculean effort to say the iPhone is going to go from 20% worldwide market share to 90%.

⏹️ ▶️ John The Apple TV is going to go from, maybe Apple TV actually does have decent market share, but it’s going to go from whatever it has to having 90% market share.

⏹️ ▶️ John And even 90% is not as good as 100%. And so I talked about an upgrade is let’s look at the people who have been successful

⏹️ ▶️ John in services, Netflix being the prime example. Like the defining characteristic of Netflix is you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John buy anything on the planet that has electronics in it that doesn’t play Netflix. If you buy a television that plays

⏹️ ▶️ John Netflix, there’s Netflix buttons on the remote control that say Netflix. It’s like Marco’s

⏹️ ▶️ John dream of having a button that changes the age of the machine. There’s literally a button that has the Netflix logo on your remote.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t have to, forget about having to buy a box. It’s in all your TVs, all your computers can play it. You can play it

⏹️ ▶️ John on your phone, you can play it on your tablet, you can play it on your Fire, it’s everywhere. Because Netflix

⏹️ ▶️ John is in the business of saying, we don’t want there to be any barriers to you signing up for our service.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you exist and have a way to watch movies at all, we wanna make

⏹️ ▶️ John it as easy as possible for you to sign up for Netflix. And that is really the only way to

⏹️ ▶️ John have any success in any kind of service thing. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ John on Upgrade, I also talked about, when has Apple done this in the past? When has Apple actually done a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John where they say, we don’t just wanna sell this to people who have Apple hardware or left-handed people, we wanna sell it to

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody. And the iPod is the only real recent example in most people’s minds, because once they made the iPod

⏹️ ▶️ John for Windows, it’s like, look, everybody can buy an iPod. We don’t care if you have a Mac, We don’t care. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John just we’ll sell iPods to everybody. And everybody was simpler than because it’s basically like

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have a Mac or a PC on that was that was all that mattered back then. But they sold them to everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John and they sold really cheap ones and really small ones and really big ones and expensive ones. They just sold it to whoever

⏹️ ▶️ John would take in the head. They actually had fairly dominant market share in the digital music player market like they

⏹️ ▶️ John were the biggest game in town. Netflix has even better penetration. Netflix basically has 100% penetration. Like if

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t watch Netflix, you’re you’re trying really hard or you’re Casey and never replace anything. Although Casey can watch Netflix

⏹️ ▶️ John so he

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey can’t escape

⏹️ ▶️ John it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, I might even my ancient TV might have a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Netflix.

⏹️ ▶️ John Your Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey TV can play.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I’m thinking though, even my ancient TV that I don’t even remember how old it is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it was exciting that it was 1080 because that was up for grabs whether or not it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would have been. And I think it has a native Netflix app, which is to build you. It’s exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you’re talking about, John. Netflix is freaking everywhere and it was freaking everywhere years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and the apps weren’t great, but the whole point was not, oh, it’s a beautiful app that reflects the brand of Netflix and is

⏹️ ▶️ John elegant and lovely and high performance. Like it will eventually play video like that’s all I care about. Can you

⏹️ ▶️ John play? Can you play the video? Um, and yeah, so Apple music on, on, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Amazon’s, uh, echo devices is one thing, but like the video thing, which we had in the notes

⏹️ ▶️ John for a long time, we never really talked about. We talked about it like a year ago when we were talking about the same topic that has been coming up for

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe multiple years now of like, how can Apple Apple, uh, produce video content and then, and

⏹️ ▶️ John then apply its Apple brand to say, well, we don’t want people to be cursing and we don’t want there to be violence. Like, can you compete with HBO

⏹️ ▶️ John and Netflix if you do that? Blah, blah, blah. Like that, that story came around for its yearly run, like maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John three or four months ago. Uh, but the larger story as these, as information has been trickling

⏹️ ▶️ John out of the typically silent Apple, it’s that Apple, you know, it’s going to introduce a video service

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re spending about a billion dollars for original content. Like they want to, they’re not just like, we’re to

⏹️ ▶️ John dip our toes in, they want to be in the same game as Amazon and you know, Hulu and

⏹️ ▶️ John stars and of course Netflix. And what you have to do to be in that market now is you have to

⏹️ ▶️ John pay for and produce original content which costs tons of money. And it’s make or break Netflix would not be

⏹️ ▶️ John Netflix without like you know, House of Cards or Orange is the New Black, right? HBO would not be HBO without it

⏹️ ▶️ John shows although it didn’t start as a streaming service, obviously, and you know, everything has to have some original content.

⏹️ ▶️ John Otherwise, why would I subscribe to your service, right? It’s not like it’s a way for you to watch content

⏹️ ▶️ John that other people make, because increasingly, the content is made by the streaming services. So Apple is spending a billion

⏹️ ▶️ John dollars. You don’t spend a billion dollars on content and say, and this billion dollars is just to make

⏹️ ▶️ John shows for people who listen to ATP. You’re not going to spend a billion

⏹️ ▶️ John dollars and say, Yeah, you have to buy you have to buy the world’s most expensive puck device

⏹️ ▶️ John and attach it to your TV. Otherwise, you can’t watch this content, you would never narrow your audience like that. So this is

⏹️ ▶️ John all absolute no-brainer stuff that’s going on and still by the way does not guarantee Apple is going to be successful

⏹️ ▶️ John because unfortunately in this market your shows have to be good which is a whole other issue but we don’t know what the shows are

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be like. All we know is Apple is going to have a video streaming service and Apple being in every TV

⏹️ ▶️ John in 2018 and 2019 and on they have to do that. It’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John shocking, it’s not surprising, they absolutely have to do it and they have to do it as fast as they possibly can, because

⏹️ ▶️ John anything that makes it harder to sign up for and watch whatever the content is, is death, even before we get

⏹️ ▶️ John to the point of are the shows actually good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, just to make it absolutely clear, if Apple would like to give the three of us a billion dollars to make some TV content

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just for our listeners, I’m willing to orchestrate that for you, Apple. So just have your people call my people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you know, I have really been dying to make that cooking with john show. I think a billion dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have lots of but I think I might have too much sex and violence for apples. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wow. Now I know I really want cooking with john.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a dark. It’s a dark gritty reimagining of cooking with

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey john. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey imagine the epic road trips we could do because even john would probably quit his job for one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey third of a billion dollars. So imagine the Top Gear style road trips we could do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You want to bet he still wouldn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey But you might be right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How about you? How much you want to bet if John made $333 million, he still wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buy a Ferrari and still wouldn’t quit his job?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, that’s over my threshold. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think we do that as a rectif topic, exactly how much money you need to do certain things. I

⏹️ ▶️ John have numbers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you to quit your job and buy a Ferrari, what’s your number?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think $100 million is the threshold of Ferrari territory because

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like $100 million I could adjust my life enough to support a Ferrari

⏹️ ▶️ John in the way that needs to be supported.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco All right. And is that is that for your post tax? And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that tax

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cash or all assets?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s cash pre taxing cash. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco let’s go anyway. All right. I’ll make that happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. All right. Apple. Here’s here’s our price. If you want cooking with John, the hottest new show of this coming fall.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s that’s our price.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, see, the thing is like this is Relevant to what I was gonna say before like They have already

⏹️ ▶️ John spent a bunch of money on Content that as far as I can tell is not going to see the light of day like they

⏹️ ▶️ John made this whole like the story Of dr. Dre or something series I don’t know the details of this but they spent a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of money to make a show but then they decided that it wasn’t like suitable for You know that it

⏹️ ▶️ John had too much violence and cursing and drug use and whatever and so they just basically spiked it

⏹️ ▶️ John or canned it or whatever the the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Whatever the the holiday

⏹️ ▶️ John when it comes to television shows, but they already paid to have it made made. So if they had taken that money that they paid to have it made

⏹️ ▶️ John and just given it to me, I can have my Ferrari now and they would have the same number of shows.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So now we’re offering to help them not make shows for a lot of money.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think it’s give it to me. I’ll tell them I’m making a documentary of Dr. Dre and then I’ll say actually it’s got a lot of drugs in it. You probably don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John want it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple is the win-win. It’s a win for everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco involved.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This could be this could be like a like the one thing I have seen this could be like a producer’s strategy of like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you take their money and you try to make the absolute most offensive thing you possibly can so that they spike it and you get to keep all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco money.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s another possible strategy. I mean, that’s that’s sort of I mean, they do that in

⏹️ ▶️ John in movies all the time, although usually they end up releasing this a lot of movies that were on the shelf, but usually they put

⏹️ ▶️ John them out whether it’s straight to video or they just, you know, get them out somehow. There are a few that I think have never been released.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think there was that Jerry Lewis clown concentration camp movie.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was the Corman Captain America. I forget if that was released. Anyway, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John totally fits with the Apple ethos of like, we try all sorts of things and if they’re not good enough, we don’t release them.

⏹️ ▶️ John We just tend not to hear about the technology products that happens with but we did hear about this TV show.

⏹️ ▶️ John Shelved it. There you go. That’s that’s the term we should be using.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s funny to me that that Marco who didn’t care for spaceballs actually neither of you really cared for spaceballs. Here we are talking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about the producers by Mel Brooks. It’s all coming full circle now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does he know the producers by Mel Brooks? No,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco no,

⏹️ ▶️ John say there are connections, but he’s not aware of. Neelip Patel had some some points

⏹️ ▶️ John about I’ve already forgotten some points about this particular thing as well. So

⏹️ ▶️ John he talked to Apple and he said, Apple tells me no smart TV content tracking is allowed on airplay, airplay

⏹️ ▶️ John to streams on Vizio and LG TVs. In addition to preventing Samsung from tracking the iTunes app.

⏹️ ▶️ John So this is Apple saying like they’re dictating some amount of terms to their

⏹️ ▶️ John television partners that integrate their technologies. And if you read this and aren’t keeping up with what

⏹️ ▶️ John the television world is like, you’re like, what do they mean? No smart TV content tracking? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John are they tracking what I watch? The answer is yes. That’s what smart TVs do. That is a very,

⏹️ ▶️ John very important business model. And there was a big article on The Verge about this for years and years. There

⏹️ ▶️ John was a bunch of stories about Vizio having privacy violations and all sorts of other things where even if you opted out, it still

⏹️ ▶️ John recorded stuff from recording things on cameras and microphones. But forgetting all that, just the

⏹️ ▶️ John basics of, these televisions know what they’re displaying on the screen because they are the television,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? They do content identification on that, and they track that information,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they report it because it’s valuable information to know what people are watching on television. And these people make television sell

⏹️ ▶️ John that information. So Apple apparently said, you are not allowed to do content tracking for

⏹️ ▶️ John things that are streamed over AirPlay. or things that are in the iTunes app.

⏹️ ▶️ John Basically just trying to fence it off and saying, look, you can’t do this. I

⏹️ ▶️ John know you have the technology to do it. I know you can tell what’s being displayed in your stream, but no go. I don’t know how Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John is verifying that, but presumably it’s in their contract with all sorts of penalties if they mess it up. But as Nealey

⏹️ ▶️ John points out in his next tweet, the wacky part is that Apple can prevent TV makers from tracking content

⏹️ ▶️ John over HDMI input. So a smart TV can track what you watch on your Apple TV. So if you buy an Apple TV,

⏹️ ▶️ John can totally track what you’re doing because it connects over HDMI and there’s no sort of relationship or contract

⏹️ ▶️ John between Apple and the television because when you buy an Apple TV, they have no idea what TV

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re going to get up to or whatever. So the world of television is scary and filled with ads

⏹️ ▶️ John and tracking. What else is new? But it’s good that Apple is trying to do what it can to

⏹️ ▶️ John not let television strike you quite as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much. No, I think, you know, the question what else is new? Like, no, this actually is fairly Like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco concept, in fact, you know, going back to Neelay Patel’s stuff put out recently, there was some article or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco podcast, I forget where, but somewhere he had an interview with a TV exec who I think anonymously told him

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like post-sale monetization is a really big deal in TVs now because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re selling them basically at cost because it’s such a cutthroat commodity business that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very little profit margin in the actual TVs anymore. And so they’re selling them basically as close to cost as they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco possibly can and then making it up by making money from you after the sale.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, of course, you ask, how do they make money from you after the sale if you aren’t, if you have no, like I bought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an LG TV last year. I have no way to give LG more money for the TV or do I?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Turns out, uh, it’s like that. Yeah. You can monetize it through analytics

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and selling data and ads and everything. So So this is yet more reasons why,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, I don’t trust any of these TV makers to be ethical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or technically competent at all. So, like when I got, and I got a well-rated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco LG, you know, the C7, whatever TV. It’s great, I love the TV. It has no way to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco connect to the internet. Because when I set it up, I plugged in an ethernet cable, I did not give

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it my wifi info, and I said, all right, here, download whatever you need to download, and then I unplugged

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the ethernet cable and I never used any of its smart apps again. And I feel totally confident that my TV

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not doing anything creepy because it can’t. That is the only sane way I think to use a smart TV

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now, if you care about your privacy. If you don’t care, that’s a different question. If you don’t care, fine, that’s up to you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if you do care, I would not trust any of these manufacturers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to actually respect decency or laws or to not do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything that you opt out of. I won’t trust them for a second.

⏹️ ▶️ John Next year’s TVs will connect to the cell network if you’re a digital

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco network.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so that was the article I was referring to. And no, it wasn’t anonymous.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Wait, will they?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m guessing. Who knows?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if that’s their business model, it’s well worth the money for them to do that. I don’t think they need to, though, because I think people

⏹️ ▶️ John are not as paranoid as you and they’ll just use people’s Wi-Fi, which they will connect it to. But yeah, that was a Vizio executive, not

⏹️ ▶️ John an anonymous person, not a secret tip. It was like a Vizio executive making a public statement. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody in the industry knows this. And I think consumers basically don’t care

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about it. No, I really don’t think consumers know. How would anybody know that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think consumers would ever expect that.

⏹️ ▶️ John They make you agree to terms and people will just click past

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it. Oh, nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John reads that.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, come

⏹️ ▶️ John on. But I think consumers don’t care. I think you’re also right that they don’t know, but if you told them, they’d be like, oh, well, if it makes my TV

⏹️ ▶️ John cheaper, I’m fine with it. And it is newish as in the last five years, but it’s not new as in this year. It’s just people are talking

⏹️ ▶️ John about it more now. And the margins on TVs have always been terrible. It’s always been cutthroat. I think TV executives

⏹️ ▶️ John are super excited now that unlike the decades and decades where the business was cutthroats and the margins

⏹️ ▶️ John were razor thin, now they have a way to make money

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey after

⏹️ ▶️ John the sale. Like they didn’t have that before. It was like we had to just compete and they would like kill each other for like their 3% margins

⏹️ ▶️ John and the one who has 3% margins beats the one who has 2.9% margins and then

⏹️ ▶️ John the other one dies and then you buy their factory. Like that used to be the TV business. Now it’s like we don’t have to

⏹️ ▶️ John worry about that. We can make, and I like it because it means we can make the best TV we can make and we’ll make it all up by selling your

⏹️ ▶️ John data. And then for people who care, like Bargo, they

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t get your data because you’ll just air wrap your TV, but nobody does that. Like very, very few people do

⏹️ ▶️ John that. And again, it’s nice that it’s an option. Worst case, if they put a SIM card in there, you can wrap some tinfoil around the right part of your

⏹️ ▶️ John TV or something and keep it from connecting. But honestly, I think that’s a trade, even if

⏹️ ▶️ John you explained it, for the most part, people would be willing to make. We will anonymously track

⏹️ ▶️ John everything you watch and report it back, in exchange your televisions will be cheaper they’ll be like all right fine they just feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like they’re a Nielsen family or something um but yeah and if Apple has a unique selling proposition

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s that they won’t do that but again Apple doesn’t make a tv much to Gene Munster’s dismay

⏹️ ▶️ John they decided

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not to as one of the many

⏹️ ▶️ John products they decided not to ship although uh you know maybe it helped us get the home pod

⏹️ ▶️ John but who knows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the aspects of this story that I thought was really interesting is just like you know and this was also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco discussed on upgrade so please listen to upgrade but like the whole idea of like would you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have imagined telling us not even like you know you often say like you know can you imagine telling us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from five years ago this thing would have happened can you imagine telling us five months ago that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would in you know in only a few short months be running

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iTunes video content on an an app on someone else’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hardware, let alone hardware by Samsung. But like, even setting aside the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco law of Samsung, like, nothing that is not an Apple device

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or iTunes has ever been able to play iTunes DRM video content.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the fact that this is now going to be a thing on at least Samsung, and if not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more, you know, providers for that part of it in the future, like, that is a radical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco departure of strategy, you know, and see also having Apple Music on the Amazon Echo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and on Sonos. Like, I think this is really a turning point and, you know, all the reasons you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said earlier, John, make sense and that’s great and it’s probably why they’re doing it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s still one of those things that I never thought we’d see out of Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, if you asked me if, you know, five months ago, yes, I would have totally, I would have predicted it and put tons of money on it. Again, because

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve been spending, if you’ve been keeping up with the, you know, how much money is Apple spending to produce original video content because it takes

⏹️ ▶️ John a long time. They have to, you know, hire talent who hires talent who makes the show and then like,

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, yes, up to a year or two years ago, as soon as we started laying out real money and hiring real TV

⏹️ ▶️ John executives, it’s just the dominoes fall right and and it’s not it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s very rare and it is a big change, but it’s not unprecedented. They’ve done it before in the past when they’ve had

⏹️ ▶️ John a business where they’ve been they’ve been convinced either in turn by internal external forces that

⏹️ ▶️ John the way to succeed in this business is you have to go wide. And it took convincing for the iPod, you know, if I bought on Windows, like Steve

⏹️ ▶️ John Jobs famously did not want it and had to be berated into doing it. And you know, it

⏹️ ▶️ John spelled a success. And so the question for music service video services always,

⏹️ ▶️ John are you going to do this Apple? Are you not? In the beginning, you can start off just selling to Mac customers

⏹️ ▶️ John and see what the deal is so and so but eventually you have to decide to look are we in or we out and you can tell they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in when they said, okay, we’re going to start hiring people, we’re gonna start getting talent, we’re gonna start making TV

⏹️ ▶️ John shows. And yeah, after that comes like, well, you got to be in every TV,

⏹️ ▶️ John you got to let your music service be in every platform, it could have been they could have said, well, music, we’re gonna get out, but video, we’re gonna go in or vice versa.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it wasn’t a given, until they started laying out the books, laying out the box that they were going to do anything, and particularly

⏹️ ▶️ John the music service. At any point, they could have said, Yeah, we’re not really into this music thing

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore. And we’ll just like seed the market to Spotify or whatever, but they didn’t. So they stuck with that. And so now they have to go

⏹️ ▶️ John wide on that as well. And the video thing, uh, they tried to do the skinny bundle thing back in the days

⏹️ ▶️ John when cable was much more important than it is now and couldn’t get that deal done or didn’t find anything satisfactory.

⏹️ ▶️ John So we’re quiet for a while. But a few years ago they said, okay, we’re going to do, we’re going to do this other thing. We’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to, we’re going to look at the model of Netflix. We’re going to make some original shows and we’re going to sell somebody a video streaming source. And we’re talking about this like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a done deal because a billion dollars has been laid out and money has changed hands and

⏹️ ▶️ John shows are being made and have been made. But there’s no Apple video streaming service you subscribe

⏹️ ▶️ John to right now. We’re just talking about it as a done deal because it’s like if they laid out all this money and they never

⏹️ ▶️ John introduced an Apple video service, that’s going to be a big red mark on their balance sheet in some quarter somewhere. So

⏹️ ▶️ John we all very strongly assume that it’s coming. And for people who

⏹️ ▶️ John whose vision who aren’t like Apple followers and don’t follow like the trades in the world

⏹️ ▶️ John of movies and TV or whatever, this will come as a surprise and a shock. a TV and saying

⏹️ ▶️ John like that it has Apple stuff like those people, especially if you’re not an Apple fan might not even known

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple does Apple sell movies or TVs Can you rent movies from Apple that’s weird right

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t think they’re going to be inclined to use anything that Apple offers because they’ll be like oh I just watch

⏹️ ▶️ John Netflix like there’s no there’s no reason for them to try the Apple stuff if they’re not Apple customers. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why Apple spending a billion dollars to have some show that they hope their friends are going to tell them you got to to check out the new show,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. And then it was like, Oh, that does sound cool. Where can I watch that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Only on and certain name of Apple streaming service. And that’s, that is the feedback loop they’re looking for, for people who

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t even know that Apple sells, you know, television shows or movies and don’t care that it sells television movies

⏹️ ▶️ John because they already have cable or Hulu or Netflix or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John much more popular. Like Apple is late to this game. And they are not the big name.

⏹️ ▶️ John They have cachet with again, and other Apple enthusiasts, but they do

⏹️ ▶️ John not have cachet with the mass of people out there who are watching Netflix or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John other much more established streaming service.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, and the second question, and I promise I’ll leave this topic alone after this,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been thinking, I haven’t heard anybody really talk about this, I’ve been thinking like, might we be heading

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into a massive oversupply of not just TV subscription services,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but TV content. Like it already,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I don’t watch a ton of TV, I guess, but already there is tons of stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I am interested in, even like series that have new seasons that I’ve watched the previous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seasons for, or new series that I keep getting recommended by friends and that I wanna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco check out, and there just is not enough time to watch all this TV for me. There’s way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more good TV content being produced now then I think a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of people have time to watch. Even setting aside the definitely significant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issue that you are having to pay for more and more streaming services in order to get all the things people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are recommending, is this maybe a bad time to try to get into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same market? Because like, honestly, I think there’s gonna be a crash. Like, I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, I don’t think the market can bear this much, this level of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like good TV production, good TV production, good video series production, I don’t think people have enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time for it all. And I don’t think that market really knows what that’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it has never really been possible before to oversaturate it. You know, in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the olden days, you had like broadcast limitations, like number of broadcast channels, then you had cable, but you still had like cable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco channel limitations and relatively wide targeting still necessary and everything. But now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like with all these services, you have infinite, you know, just like the internet, like you have infinite real estate, You have infinite channels,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and because this seems like a hot market, everybody’s trying to get subscription services

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going. It’s a huge, great seller’s market for,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re a TV producer, you can pitch your show to so many different places now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that if there’s anything good about it at all, you can probably get it made. And people have a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain fixed amount of time in the day they can spend watching TV content. I think we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way oversaturating this market. And like by the time Apple releases their service,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it might be a really bad time because it might like, it might be as everybody’s realizing, oh crap,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m, I’m subscribed to four different services and I only really ever have time to watch one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you make a fair point, but when was the last time you subscribed to a new podcast?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Um, I think today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And don’t you already feel like you’re fairly overexposed on your podcast queue because I know I do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, but you know, I wanted one comes in one goes out who cares.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the oversupply of television shows is a multi-year-old meme, but it is a real

⏹️ ▶️ John thing for sure. It is so well established that there are seemingly too many television

⏹️ ▶️ John shows that there was a recent Simpsons skit about it. Simpsons still in the air.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, I’m still making

⏹️ ▶️ John jokes, right? So it got to the point where it was a Simpsons skit. Here we go. Todd found me the link. Thankfully,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and maybe we could make room by stopping the Simpsons finally, please

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John put out of its misery.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was on it was actually on fresh air had the clip. So it’s nice. We have an audio clip of a television show courtesy

⏹️ ▶️ John of NPR. So I will put the link in the chat room and the show notes this clip while funny,

⏹️ ▶️ John although longer than it should be for a traditional Simpsons gag. That’s more like an SNL skit that

⏹️ ▶️ John goes too long actually does explain the situation fairly well while trying to be funny, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, there are a huge number of scripted television shows available just astronomical

⏹️ ▶️ John way more than there has ever been. And also there’s therefore a larger number of good ones and it feels

⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s too much for you to watch. But the point made in this thing as a joke,

⏹️ ▶️ John but is real, is that the companies paying for this content to be created

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t care if you have time to watch it. All they care is that you care about one

⏹️ ▶️ John show enough to sign up for their service. It’s recurring. They just want that if you

⏹️ ▶️ John sign up for their service and never watch anything, you are their best customer.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Sign up

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey for

⏹️ ▶️ John monthly recurring billing. And there are so many services. And we’ve talked about it before.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve talked about it on this show, how many services I pay for. Like I just subscribe to these things. Sometimes I cancel them on the shows I’m not interested

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore aren’t there. Sometimes I don’t, right? Does it add up to be more than my cable bill? Of course, I also

⏹️ ▶️ John still pay for cable, right? But they just want to get you on a recurring payment. And the way

⏹️ ▶️ John they get you is to make as much content as they possibly can that’s compelling to the widest range of people.

⏹️ ▶️ John They can’t just make one good show and just say, well, we’ll get all the people like that one good show. They want to make as many good shows as they

⏹️ ▶️ John can. They need. And because it’s like it’s a creative endeavor. You don’t know what’s going to be a hit or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. You have to make a lot of stuff and some of them be hits and some of them aren’t. And the thing is, as someone who describes

⏹️ ▶️ John to a million of these services, I am forever. It’s kind of like Apple music for me. I am forever

⏹️ ▶️ John discovering shows that are made three, four or five years ago. Right. That

⏹️ ▶️ John I find interesting and want to watch. Like you get to the deep catalog type thing. It’s like music because I don’t follow

⏹️ ▶️ John music, and I go to Apple Music, and it’s like, hmm, what has been released in the last three decades that I might be interested in, right? You

⏹️ ▶️ John can do that with television shows because they have a back catalog. It’s not like broadcast TV. There’s a huge oversupply,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s actually kind of great because if you’re interested in mid-budget sci-fi time travel

⏹️ ▶️ John shows, you have 15 choices, whereas before you would have zero ever, right? And sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John you find an amazing gem, and we all, in our little circle of friends here, found Patriot,

⏹️ ▶️ John which was a show that was made in 2015, and we found it like in 2017, late 2017, right? And enough people found it that they made a season two

⏹️ ▶️ John of it. So some people say it’s the golden age of television, but you

⏹️ ▶️ John are 100% right, Marco, that there is too much television for any human to watch. It is

⏹️ ▶️ John a huge oversupply, but I don’t think it’s actually, and I think there actually is, you know, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be a limit, and you’re right, there’s probably going to be reckoning. It’s a bad time for Apple to enter though, not because of

⏹️ ▶️ John oversupply, but because they’re late, because everyone else is already there, and they have to come from behind.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s why it’s bad for Apple. It’s not like Apple’s going to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John The camel’s back is long since broken. Like, there are

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey just way too many,

⏹️ ▶️ John way too many shows and way too many things. And you have to, you know, regular people who aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John dumb like me and are willing to pay like $15 a month, literally six times over, to subscribe

⏹️ ▶️ John to every service on the site, you have to pick and choose. You have to say, do I care enough about Star Trek Discovery

⏹️ ▶️ John to pay for CBS All Access? Because it’s the only show I care about in the whole service. I don’t watch any of the shows

⏹️ ▶️ John on CBS. Do I care enough about that? Especially since sometimes in the past,

⏹️ ▶️ John shows that you care about that used to be exclusive end up appearing on some other thing. Like on Netflix, you can get a bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ John shows that weren’t Netflix originals, but end up on Netflix anyway, but like delayed by a year

⏹️ ▶️ John and a half, which may not be a big deal for you if you don’t watch your shows that quickly. So I think it’s bad because Apple’s late,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I don’t think the oversupply is going to be what hurts Apple. What’s gonna hurt Apple is if it don’t make good shows

⏹️ ▶️ John that people wanna watch. It is very, it’s much more like Pixar, to name another Steve Jobs

⏹️ ▶️ John affiliated company. It’s much more like Pixar, where it’s like you gotta make good movies. We don’t care how good

⏹️ ▶️ John your tech is, or how elegant your artwork is, you gotta tell a good story, you gotta

⏹️ ▶️ John make a thing that people wanna watch.

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⏹️ ▶️ John You know, we’ve been talking about TVs for a while and I’m similarly cautious about buying new TVs, even

⏹️ ▶️ John though I’m super into them. I’m still using my plasma and I mentioned that like I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John probably going to be in the market for a new TV and maybe this year or next or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John And CS is where the new TVs are announced. So I’m watching those announcements with interest. Uh, and it occurred

⏹️ ▶️ John to me that the time I’m usually ready to buy a TV is like when

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever the best TV making technology is like mature and established.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. So I bought my plasma. I bought my, I bought multiple plasmas, but I bought my first plasma

⏹️ ▶️ John when plasmas were like clearly the king of the Hill. They were mature. They had addressed their growing pain issues.

⏹️ ▶️ John They weren’t super expensive anymore. They had the best picture quality. There was large selection. And then I bought another

⏹️ ▶️ John plasma at the very tail end, like the very last plasma you could buy before Panasonic stopped making them the best one

⏹️ ▶️ John they ever made. You know, I got, right. At that time, whether you’re in like

⏹️ ▶️ John the middle of the curve, like this is the heyday of this technology or especially at the tail end,

⏹️ ▶️ John it usually means that there’s another technology coming out, like whatever the new technology is. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m basically, I’m getting to is I’m going to buy an OLED TV just at the point when

⏹️ ▶️ John we all know what will eventually be better than OLED. And last year and this year

⏹️ ▶️ John at CES they’ve had technologies that are fairly clearly, depending on when they ship,

⏹️ ▶️ John the better successor to OLED. So while I’m excited to get a new OLED

⏹️ ▶️ John TV this year or next year, at CES I was also excited to see what is my

⏹️ ▶️ John next next TV going to be like. And it looks like it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be micro LED, which I think is very interesting because television technology,

⏹️ ▶️ John I can talk about this in hypercritical, like what the contenders were and what the roadmap

⏹️ ▶️ John was like. We someday we may have televisions like X, Y, and Z. For a long time, OLED was like, someday we may have

⏹️ ▶️ John these televisions made with OLEDs and they could be super thin and they’d be amazing and have these properties. And look, here they are. They took a long,

⏹️ ▶️ John long time. It took decades of us hearing about OLED before you could even buy one. And then you could buy some tiny one and it costs 15

⏹️ ▶️ John grand. but eventually they come in TVs. One of the other technologies that was discussed,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, way back when we went from the CRT to the flat tube era is like, well, you’ve got LCDs and you’ve got

⏹️ ▶️ John plasma and you’ve got potentially OLED and you also have potentially LED TVs.

⏹️ ▶️ John And everyone thinks they have an LED TV because they advertised them in the store. Like you can, I have an LED TV, I bought it at Best

⏹️ ▶️ John Buy. Like, no, you don’t actually have an LED TV. What you have is an LCD television where the backlight is made of

⏹️ ▶️ John LEDs, which is great and all, but it’s not an actual LED TV. LED, I don’t know if you’ve seen these, if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve used like a breadboard kit or whatever, it’s light emitting diode. It’s a little tiny thing that lights

⏹️ ▶️ John up. And you can make colored ones, and you can make white ones. And

⏹️ ▶️ John like when they have the backlight where it’s like an LED backlight LCD, it’s usually like white or blue

⏹️ ▶️ John backlights. Just a bunch of LEDs they make, and you make light bulbs out of LED. It’s very small,

⏹️ ▶️ John relatively energy efficient compared to incandescent bulbs. Source of very bright

⏹️ ▶️ John light. An LED television would be a television where the red, green,

⏹️ ▶️ John and blue subpixels are each tiny LEDs. A little red LED,

⏹️ ▶️ John a little blue LED, a little green LED. A television like that

⏹️ ▶️ John would have, would be like the best of all possible worlds that we have available to us now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like an OLED, it can have perfect blacks, meaning if the screen is black,

⏹️ ▶️ John you just turn off all the LEDs. And you could be in a dark room and all the LEDs are off

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s fine. You can’t have that in LCD because the way LCDs work is they shine a bunch of light

⏹️ ▶️ John through a liquid crystal layer and then through some colored filters. And when you don’t want the light

⏹️ ▶️ John to come through, you tell the liquid crystals to stop the light from passing, but they can’t stop all the light, so light

⏹️ ▶️ John leaks out. So if you sit in front of a LCD television in a black room and make the

⏹️ ▶️ John television black, it’s not black. It will light up your room because the liquid crystal

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t stop that backlight from spraying light out. That’s why they have backlights that can turn off, but they can only turn off for regions,

⏹️ ▶️ John yada yada yada. Micro LED, just like OLED, can turn off off so it can have

⏹️ ▶️ John perfect blacks. It can also be super duper bright because the things that make the light are the actual

⏹️ ▶️ John subpixels. It’s not like it’s shining some light through a bunch of filters, through liquid crystal, through anything like that where you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John losing light content. The little tiny subpixels actually produce the light. So they can be very

⏹️ ▶️ John bright, and they’re also very close to the screen and they shoot light in all directions. So you have amazing, perfect viewing

⏹️ ▶️ John angles from everywhere. And they can also be very saturated and rich and have really great colors. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have this, you know, strange color shifts and everything. It is a couple of articles will put links in the show notes if you want to read about all this, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s there’s much more detail than that in terms of how current televisions work and how potential future

⏹️ ▶️ John ones can work. But I’m just giving you the broad strokes here. So and then also they can be very thin

⏹️ ▶️ John and they can be energy efficient and you can make them to any size and shape you want

⏹️ ▶️ John because once you’re stamping out these tiny tiny little LEDs you just keep making more and more of them in little panels that you can just

⏹️ ▶️ John snap together and just keep making you know larger and larger sets any resolution you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John The reason it’s called micro LED is because it’s easy to make a television of LEDs like if you go to a football stadium

⏹️ ▶️ John and you see those huge screens they’re usually made out of LEDs but the LEDs are you know the size of tennis balls like they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John huge right? At CES last year they had huge LED displays like look

⏹️ ▶️ John it fills the whole wall isn’t it amazing? You may think it’s amazing but what’s more amazing is a smaller one

⏹️ ▶️ John because you can make big ones because you can just make a bunch of LEDs for every single pixel but if your LEDs

⏹️ ▶️ John are you know the size of a thumbtack and you make a 4k display then it’s being the size of

⏹️ ▶️ John a wall most people don’t have room in their house for a 50-foot display if you want something 55

⏹️ ▶️ John inches the LEDs have to be really really really small and it is really hard to make tiny

⏹️ ▶️ John tiny little LEDs and put enough of them as tightly packed as you can to make a 4k display

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s I think that numbers in the article. It’s basically 25 million LEDs in precise

⏹️ ▶️ John arrangements of RGB. There’s some complication with that in terms of quantum dots to change the colors

⏹️ ▶️ John and actually making all the LEDs the same color for cost reasons, yada yada. The bottom line is this year’s

⏹️ ▶️ John CES, they had demos of like television size micro LED displays and they are amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John They have all the things I said, perfect blacks, you know, infinite viewing angles, amazing

⏹️ ▶️ John color reproduction, energy efficient, thin, good response time, and by the

⏹️ ▶️ John way, no burn-in. It would be the first television technology

⏹️ ▶️ John in several decades that I would end up buying that doesn’t have any burn-in issues. So now, obviously, I want a micro

⏹️ ▶️ John LED display, but they don’t exist yet except as tech demos. So come back to ATP

⏹️ ▶️ John in, let’s say, eight years, and I should be buying my first

⏹️ ▶️ John micro LED display, But I am super excited about it because both this and a quantum dot emissive

⏹️ ▶️ John technology Both have the promise of getting me where I want which is all the best attributes of

⏹️ ▶️ John every current television technology with none of the bad ones and That’s what I want

⏹️ ▶️ John And so I’m super excited about micro LED and if you recall Apple to get bring back to Apple briefly Had

⏹️ ▶️ John invested in some micro LED company and they were looking into it for their displays and stuff I I think they bailed on those

⏹️ ▶️ John efforts because it turns out to be way harder than you think it’s gonna be like Like it’s there. There are lots of

⏹️ ▶️ John issues with micro LEDs and the other one with the quantum dot stuff was actually really fascinating. You should read

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the articles that I put in the show notes about how you can emit light of one wavelength and these little

⏹️ ▶️ John quantum dot things can absorb it and emitted a different wavelength. That’s how you can have like an entire

⏹️ ▶️ John a blue a blue backlight like an entirely blue black light and make your red and green pixels

⏹️ ▶️ John out of by taking the blue into a quantum dot and changing it into the red and green.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you don’t lose any light. Like it’s not like going through a filter. Cause when you send light through a filter, you lose a lot of the light, right? You can’t get peak

⏹️ ▶️ John brightness or anything like that. So yeah, there’s, that is another promising technology. But micro

⏹️ ▶️ John LED was actually on display at CES. So it makes me believe that this is, you know, it was a tech demo last year, the size of a wall.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now it’s a tech demo the size of a TV. It makes me think eight years, they’re going to have television sets to work like this. Cause

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s kind of following the same path. Like it’s not just an idea we have, we can actually build them and show them to you.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they do indeed look amazing. So I’m excited about that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How long do you think it’ll be before we can actually buy these? Well, sorry, let me correct that. Before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re good and we can buy them.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think probably like seven or eight years probably.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That long? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John because remember, they had OLEDs at CES for years. And OLEDs were the opposite. They had small

⏹️ ▶️ John ones first, because it was just hard for them to make them at all. They have a 14-inch OLED

⏹️ ▶️ John seven or eight years ago. And then by the time you bought one, they’d gone

⏹️ ▶️ John more or less mainstream. They were still expensive, but you could buy them and you can make TVs out of them, right? That’s usually

⏹️ ▶️ John the path it takes. Like there are a bunch of manufacturing users they have to deal with, they’re very expensive to make.

⏹️ ▶️ John They have to, like the strategy they’re probably gonna go with is the quantum dot thing, where it’s easier to make 25

⏹️ ▶️ John million tightly packed blue LEDs, like they’re all the same instead of having to do red, green, blue, red,

⏹️ ▶️ John green, blue, red, green, blue, because it’s actually difficult to do them and the power efficiency of red and green

⏹️ ▶️ John and blue LEDs are like they’re more expensive and they have different characteristics. So it’s easier to make them all the same color and use quantum dots

⏹️ ▶️ John to change the color. The emissive ones have a potential

⏹️ ▶️ John advantage in that you can kind of sort of print them because it’s more like laying down

⏹️ ▶️ John silicon stuff. So if the emissive dot comes out, I’m giving it the wrong name, but there’s a technology that uses

⏹️ ▶️ John quantum dots and just uses them to emit light of different colors. If that gets done

⏹️ ▶️ John before micro LED, it outruns it. Micro LED may never end up existing because it has much of the

⏹️ ▶️ John same characteristics, but one of the two of them, I think, in about eight years, you’re going to be able to buy an expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy person’s TV with one of these two technologies. Yay. And someone asked

⏹️ ▶️ John in the chat room what QLED is. Right now you can buy televisions that advertise quantum dot. They are LCD

⏹️ ▶️ John televisions that try to they use quantum dots to again change the color of the light coming out in

⏹️ ▶️ John a way that absorbs less light than filters like a filter is just like you put like a green or a blue

⏹️ ▶️ John or a red filter like like you would put on sunglasses or whatever and it blocks a bunch of light. And so

⏹️ ▶️ John they do a bunch of tricks to make the backlight emit light with big peaks in the wavelengths

⏹️ ▶️ John of exactly red, green, and blue. Or they try to make it emit light

⏹️ ▶️ John that has those components and then they use the quantum dots to change the wavelength

⏹️ ▶️ John to the one they want. Anyway, there’s a bunch of articles and show notes you see that it’s actually very complicated

⏹️ ▶️ John but the QLED ones you see are LCD televisions that are using quantum dots to help increase

⏹️ ▶️ John their brightness and color saturation, but they’re still in the end LCD televisions, And so they cannot have perfect blacks,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is a bummer.

#askatp: Shortcuts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, friend of the show and previously mentioned, Todd Vaziri writes, hey, what Siri shortcuts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you all use and have created? I’m still fairly intimidated by the shortcuts workflow and haven’t yet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey made any significant tools and need a push to get going. So let me get my terminology straight.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So by Siri shortcuts, I’m assuming Todd is talking about a workflow style shortcut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is kicked off specifically with our voices. Is that what we’re taking this to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s how I interpreted the question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. So the only one that I can think of that I really use a lot is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I made, I kind of improved upon the, Hey, I’m on my way home shortcut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I’d written about on my blog forever ago. Which is basically take wherever I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am and figure out how long it will take me to drive home and send a text

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Aaron saying, Hey, I’ll be home in five minutes, whatever the case may be. Well, I’ve since improved that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it, you know, says, Hey, I’ll be home in five minutes, that’s, you know, 5.05 PM. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what’s nice about shortcuts being a first party app is that you can actually have it send

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a text message in the background, whereas previously when it was workflow, you had to interact with your phone and actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hit the send button, blah, blah, blah. Well now, and where this is all coming around to what Todd is asking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can say to my phone, Hey Dingus, I’m on my way home.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it will automatically figure out how long it will take to get home and tell Aaron, you know, in the background

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I’ll be home in five minutes, that’ll be 5.05 p.m. And that is the only shortcut I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think of that I use regularly that I kick off by Siri. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to think if there’s any others. There’s plenty of shortcuts I use in general, but not through Siri. Marco, what about you?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco None. Oh. I don’t, you know, I’m not proud of this. I’m not saying I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always want to use no Siri shortcuts, but right now I use no Siri shortcuts.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John?

⏹️ ▶️ John So I saw this question, and I was thinking, well, I’m going to be like Marco and say none, because I don’t really use Siri shortcuts.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s true, I don’t use them or invoke them through Siri or otherwise. But the actual number of shortcuts I have

⏹️ ▶️ John in the Shortcuts app is actually pretty large, because every time I see an interesting shortcut, usually posted by Viteci, but not always,

⏹️ ▶️ John I download it and I check it out. And I usually run it once or twice manually. Remember when we were dealing with the, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe your contacts aren’t syncing it because the contact photos are too big, and a bunch of people made cool shortcuts that would like find your big

⏹️ ▶️ John contact photos and eventually we got to the point where one of them would like scan your contacts, find all the contacts that

⏹️ ▶️ John have photos that are too big, scale them and save the scaled versions to a folder in your iCloud

⏹️ ▶️ John drive, like cool stuff. Like so I have run many shortcuts and I think I have

⏹️ ▶️ John multiple scrollable screens full of shortcuts, many of which are very complicated, none of which I

⏹️ ▶️ John wrote. I think I tried to write, it wasn’t a shortcut, it was back when it was workflows, I tried to write a workflow

⏹️ ▶️ John to mail myself a tweet and mail myself links from tweets, and I failed pretty miserably

⏹️ ▶️ John because I don’t know what I’m doing. And I really hate, as we discussed in a past episode, I really hate

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially programming through that kind of interface. It’s like programming with other myths on it. It makes, I don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John it. So I never ended up making anything. I made one that worked

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of, but didn’t work as well as using the mail share action, and it didn’t work as well as the

⏹️ ▶️ John sadly defunct app, which is called like Mail Me or Mail Myself something, or

⏹️ ▶️ John I forget what the hell, what the hell is that app called? There’s an app whose sole job was to vend a share extension

⏹️ ▶️ John that would email something to yourself and the app stopped working, I think because GPDR

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever stuff, which was sad. But so now I’m back to doing share,

⏹️ ▶️ John selecting mail, typing in the first few letters of my email address, tapping the autocomplete and hitting send, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John not ideal. But when it did that, it got more of the tweets content than I could figure

⏹️ ▶️ John out how to extract with workflows. So no, I haven’t written

⏹️ ▶️ John any and I never activate any through Siri. And the only time I ever run them is after I download them and when

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m playing with them. And like Marco, I don’t think this is ideal and I think I should find a way, place

⏹️ ▶️ John for them in my iOS life because I think they will make my life easier and better. I just,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why I keep downloading them and checking them out. haven’t crossed that hurdle yet.

#askatp: Podcast archival

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on, Fred McCann writes, I recently wanted to go back and relisten to the Geek Friday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey IRL Talk podcast only to find that the podcast feeds are still indexed in the iTunes directory, but the underlying files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are gone and don’t appear to be anywhere on the internet. The websites are still available at, but the audio files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are not cached. Given the topical nature of shows like ATP, do you think there’s value in preserving the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recordings? Are podcasts as an art form essentially ephemeral? Do you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey envision that ATP, hypercritical, etc. ought to be archived long after the show wins, or are they products that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are relevant and exist only at some point in time? So kind of in summary, where do podcasts go when they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey die? And I just wanted to call out Geek Friday and IRL Talk. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was one of my favorite podcasts and I was really saddened, it was a year ago I believe,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the co-host of those shows, Jason Seifer, passed away suddenly, which we talked about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on April 1st, which is very fitting given Jason’s personality.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, I just wanted to call out that I do still miss Jason and I wish he were still around. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to directly answer the question, I archive any podcast that I appear on and I put it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my Synology so that one day if I want to go back and listen for some crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason or if Declan or Michaela would like to go back and listen, they’re all available. Do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think all shows should be archived? I think that’s kind of the choice of the creator or creators,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right? But I mean, I don’t have any problem with ATP being, you know, archived forevermore.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m proud of the work that the three of us have done, and I’d like to think it holds up. So I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a case-by-case basis, but in the case of ATP and analog, I’d be perfectly happy for it to be recorded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forevermore. What about you, Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, I do think that, like, inherently, almost everything we put on the Internet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is ephemeral to some degree, like, and, or, you know, temporary, at least.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, one could argue that everything in life is temporary, but everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve ever made or built or will build or ever will make is temporary on an infinite time scale.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you know, it’s just like anything else you put on the internet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s subject to removal down the road. And there’s lots of good projects like that try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to actually archive stuff and make things searchable after they’re removed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The fact is, anything on the internet with a URL, the points to it, somebody can remove that down the road.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, everything we do here is temporary. Even if you stay out of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole larger life questions that make you question everything that you will ever do, and legacy, and so on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just at a technical level, it just files on a server, and whoever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco runs that server can at some point decide to remove those files, or the person can die

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stop paying for it, and then the hosting company will reclaim it, or whoever. It’s like there’s always something that can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen to them. So, you know, podcasts are just more files on the internet that can disappear at any moment.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think there is definitely value in preserving stuff like this. Obviously, the people who

⏹️ ▶️ John make it have that choice. They can throw it away. You know, it’s their stuff, right? But as I think I

⏹️ ▶️ John talked about in a hypercritical way way back when, at a certain point, especially for

⏹️ ▶️ John media entertainment, when it reaches a certain level of popularity,

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like it’s and a certain amount of time passes, it stops being

⏹️ ▶️ John owned exclusively by the creator and starts being owned collectively as part of the culture. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John the example I gave with Star Wars, which is a cultural phenomenon that has long surpassed its

⏹️ ▶️ John small number of creators and now belongs to us all as a cultural artifact.

⏹️ ▶️ John And at a certain point, it is not, it should not be possible for

⏹️ ▶️ John the creator to say, you You know, 50 years later, I’ve decided that I want all copies of Star Wars to be deleted.

⏹️ ▶️ John Doesn’t just belong to you anymore, like legally it may or whatever, but like

⏹️ ▶️ John philosophically, it’s part of the culture. Obviously, podcasts, podcasts do not raise the level of

⏹️ ▶️ John Star Wars. Most don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe some do, like maybe cereal is going to end up being like that or whatever, like whatever the Star Wars podcast is. But

⏹️ ▶️ John in general, I think there is value in preserving all kinds of media like this. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I would encourage anyone who does make a podcast to preserve it the same way, you know, like old

⏹️ ▶️ John movies are preserved. They don’t have to be classics. They don’t have to be good, but like bad old silent

⏹️ ▶️ John movies should be preserved because they are of significance. They were a thing that was created. They are part of the culture.

⏹️ ▶️ John At the very least, they’re of academic significance in the future and far future. So

⏹️ ▶️ John obviously we’re fighting as entropy and we’re fighting against the fact that we’re all going to die and our hosting company is going

⏹️ ▶️ John to delete our files or whatever, but ideally I think this stuff should be preserved. and I think there is definitely value

⏹️ ▶️ John in it. As for things that just happened like a few years ago where no one has yet, well, I was gonna say no one

⏹️ ▶️ John has died, but now I’m sad again thinking about Jason. I think if you

⏹️ ▶️ John are somebody who creates something that you think has some value and you intend to preserve it, like you should

⏹️ ▶️ John make some effort to do so. I’ll link to the classic W3C article that has

⏹️ ▶️ John a boring URL that just talks about URIs, but the thing everyone remembers about this is

⏹️ ▶️ John the big H1 tag at the top that says, cool URIs don’t change, which means that once you put something

⏹️ ▶️ John up on the internet that you’ve created, if at all possible, leave it where it

⏹️ ▶️ John is so people’s links to it don’t break. Don’t constantly redesign your site and move it around. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t put it on a different site and say, I don’t want that site anymore. I started a new site. Let it

⏹️ ▶️ John continue to work. And this is applies to audio files or web pages or anything like that. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re intending to, if you think it should still be there and it just falls off because of some redesign

⏹️ ▶️ John or that’s not great. So I think everyone should keep their stuff up at the URLs they’re at. We will make an effort to do that

⏹️ ▶️ John with ATP. I like Casey also make local copies of everything, but as a creator, I do feel some responsibility

⏹️ ▶️ John to keep the things that I make that I have control over in some fashion

⏹️ ▶️ John on the internet at their original URLs so that people can find them in the future.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously when I’m dead, who knows what the hell is going to happen, but I hope someone preserves this stuff.

#askatp: Destiny stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And finally, I have a new mortal enemy, and thy name is Graham Wetzler,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who writes about Destiny stuff, so I’m going to go pass out now.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is a weird, esoteric question, but I figured we could do it as a quickie. I put it at the end. I always put these at the end for you, Casey,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey because I know you won’t be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John handle it. Thanks, honey.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey You’re not even going to

⏹️ ▶️ John read the question for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me? For John, as a developer, what are your thoughts on the way that Destiny 2 mechanics are tied

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to visual frame rate? For example, 1K voice is doing more damage on PC, or the fact that you can only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Titan skate on a PC with high frame rate. Okay, so all kidding aside, this actually did pique my interest,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t understand but every fourth word in this question. So can you translate into dum-dum

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me? Steve

⏹️ ▶️ John McLaughlin So this is interesting because I don’t understand all the technical details of this, but I think we all

⏹️ ▶️ John remember, well, people who are old enough, and I think that includes both of you,

⏹️ ▶️ John remember games that were written for personal computers where

⏹️ ▶️ John the author of the game designed around the computer they had available to them

⏹️ ▶️ John and so made a game system that basically did everything as fast as it could

⏹️ ▶️ John and used the computer clock as the thing that controlled when things happened. One of the examples I can think of is

⏹️ ▶️ John the game Red Baron on PC where you play Red Baron and it would be fine but if you press the turbo button

⏹️ ▶️ John on your PC XT or AT, which one had the turbo button, maybe both. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it increased the clock rate of your CPU. The game would go twice as fast because you double the clock rate or whatever it was like

⏹️ ▶️ John because the game was literally like tied to the clock rate of the CPU, which is fine on game consoles that whose clock

⏹️ ▶️ John rate is never going to change. But PC games, it’s not the right approach. And in general, modern

⏹️ ▶️ John game design, meaning like after the 80s, especially on PCs, but even I imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John on consoles at this point, makes games so that they have some sort of internal clock

⏹️ ▶️ John of like, you know, Our physics engine makes new calculations 30 times a second, and we render

⏹️ ▶️ John to the screen 60 times a second if we can, and if we can’t, you know, or the player AI changes,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, five times a second or whatever. It’s based on wall clock time,

⏹️ ▶️ John not, oh, if you get a faster CPU, all of a sudden, like, the enemies in the game will walk much faster. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you run around in Doom, for example, you run at the same speed in Doom, whether you have a fancy computer or

⏹️ ▶️ John a slow one. If you have a fancy computer, you get more frames per second, but you don’t travel

⏹️ ▶️ John across the room faster. It still takes you one second to cross the room. You just may get more in between frames during

⏹️ ▶️ John that room crossing. So what this question is asking about is in Destiny 2, there are certain Destiny 2s available

⏹️ ▶️ John on consoles and on the PC. And on the PC, you can get much higher frame rates because PCs are more powerful than consoles.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there are certain mechanics in the game that behave differently because there are so many more frames.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t run faster. Well, that’s Titan skating aside. You don’t, you don’t The game doesn’t, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John things in the game don’t move faster, but because there are so many more frames and apparently so many

⏹️ ▶️ John more calculation points, some things behave differently. So some weapons that do like damage apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John actually do damage that is in some way tied to the number of frames of animation. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re running it like 120 frames per second, it does more damage. And Titan skating, I think mostly has to

⏹️ ▶️ John do with macros, but this is the way that you can move in the game by hitting a series of commands in just the right

⏹️ ▶️ John sequence to like initiate a jump and then a move forward, you know, that lets you basically travel

⏹️ ▶️ John faster by doing this strange maneuver that’s harder or impossible to do on console.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I don’t understand exactly why that’s happening, but it seems clear that despite modern game design, there are

⏹️ ▶️ John still certain things that are tied to frame rate, especially perhaps in a game that, you know, destiny two is on PC,

⏹️ ▶️ John but destiny one was not. Destiny one lived entirely on console. And so maybe the entire game engine didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John ever expect to be running at 120 frames per second. Either way,

⏹️ ▶️ John these things are, I consider them bugs. I feel like with the exception of things

⏹️ ▶️ John that affect gameplay in reasonable ways like recoil and stuff with a mouse cursor, you

⏹️ ▶️ John shouldn’t get these kind of glitches on PC that don’t happen. Like doing extra damage,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a bug that should be fixed. Titan skating, they need to decide whether that’s a thing they want to allow or not and they should allow

⏹️ ▶️ John it in both places or neither place or whatever. I don’t care because I’m not a Titan because Titans are big lug heads.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, fix the ones that are clearly bugs and the behavioral ones make

⏹️ ▶️ John a decision. The current situation is not great and I think they need to do something. Rest assured that all made

⏹️ ▶️ John sense to a very, very small subset of listeners.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well I for one agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah what those guys said. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey would be a titan.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco? I feel like I should be insulted. I feel like I should feel insulted right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he just call you a glug head in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a lug head yeah a lug

⏹️ ▶️ John so you know casey would be a titan because they’re the biggest and strongest in case he wants to be big and strong doesn’t everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like marco would be a hunter because they’re short and he’d want he’d identify with that but they’re also sneaky

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t know if marco is sneaky not really i’m i’m obviously clearly

⏹️ ▶️ John a warlock like that’s what i am and it fits they’re the nerds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks to our sponsors this week squarespace away and audible and we will see you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re into Twitter, you can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M Auntie Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s accidental They didn’t mean

⏹️ ▶️ John to Accidental, check podcast so long

Mac Pro Year

⏹️ ▶️ John Off-air which Marco will edit out Casey was complaining about the Mac program

⏹️ ▶️ John which reminded me That we are into a very special time

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a time once again. We though yes

⏹️ ▶️ John the time once again when any day Could be Mac Pro day

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s right any

⏹️ ▶️ John day the day you’re listening to this could be Mac Pro day because the Mac Pro as we know is

⏹️ ▶️ John 2019 product and we are all in 2019 so any day could be Mac Pro day I

⏹️ ▶️ John am ever on the lookout even though I know for a near certainty that it’s gonna be on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey WWC,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you never know. You never know what’s gonna happen. Should be excited by this,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Casey. I’m so excited, you guys. Yay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John think someone has The answer is nope, that it

⏹️ ▶️ John is not. Today is not Mac Pro Day, but the site is still up. Check

⏹️ ▶️ John it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every day. When do you think it’ll actually be? Like, I mean, I should probably look at the Xeon, like assuming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s gonna be an Intel-based Mac, which is not given, I think it’s the most likely outcome,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I wouldn’t say it’s a sure thing. Are we, is it time yet for the next Xeon?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, to be the one after the iMac Pro generation?

⏹️ ▶️ John Honestly, at this point, I don’t care. Put the existing Xeon in.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well, yeah, because that’s the thing, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s the same as the one that’s in the iMac Pro, you know, releasing it in summer 2019, you know, it’s already like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a year and a half old at that

⏹️ ▶️ John point. Yeah, that’s pretty much par for the course with Mac Pro hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John at this point. I forget, I looked it up, I remember looking it up, and I think there is actually a new Xeon coming

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s conceivably within the timeline that Apple could release it in 2019 and have that chip

⏹️ ▶️ John in it, but knowing Intel and delays, I would be like, Apple, if it looks like it’s borderline, just put the old chip in it,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine, it’ll be fine. I don’t think people are gonna end up buying a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro for single-threaded performance, because it’s not like this thing is supposed to

⏹️ ▶️ John be big and multi-threaded and have lots of storage and big GPUs, like that’s the role, and be modular. That’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John role it fills. So I won’t be too put out if it doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John a chip that is like, you know, I don’t put it this way. Do not delay it to 2020

⏹️ ▶️ John to get the newest chip in it, please. It’s a 2019 product, you said it was 2019.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can delay, it’s fine. Just take all the time you need, it’s totally fine. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John want to delay it, Casey, it’s just prolonging your pain. throwing all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of our pain. Oh, I haven’t been in pain. I haven’t been in pain for a long time. I’m doing great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, okay. So right now, at the beginning of the year, you know, we have no information. We have no information.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We didn’t have in 2018. There is no, no one has any idea when this thing is going to come out or if this is going to come out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So right now, with that being said, what month do you think it will be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in 2019? And I include the possible choice of month 13 is out of bounds, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco means it was not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in 2019. After

⏹️ ▶️ John all, That joke is not going to age well. No. Do

⏹️ ▶️ John you mean like when it ships to customers, when you can order it or when it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco announced? When the first ones get delivered to customers. Oh, that’s a hard question.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Which like for the 2013 Mac Pro, a few trickled out in December of 2013,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it was basically January or February before a lot of people could really have them. So like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it could be like a couple month range like it’s gonna be like near the edge of a month, but like, you know, it could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the same thing where the 2019 Mac Pro might be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually shipping to people in mid-December 2019. All right,

⏹️ ▶️ John so my, I have two guesses. My optimistic guess is September,

⏹️ ▶️ John early September, September 9th, September 15th, right, in customers’

⏹️ ▶️ John hands. And my pessimistic guess is like December 30th.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because I believe it can be in somebody’s hands. But like the optimistic

⏹️ ▶️ John scenario is they gave themselves enough time, they’re gonna announce it at WWDC and it’ll ship in, they’ll say

⏹️ ▶️ John fall. And around September it’ll come out because actually they were on top of it and they had it ready. If they don’t have it ready and they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John scrambling, it’ll be like those computers that they just try to get out before the end of the year just to save face and just a

⏹️ ▶️ John few trickle out in late December. So those are my two guesses.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Casey? My optimistic guess is that it gets shelved.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s not really true. I joke, and now it’s become kind of a character shtick.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you want one to do your video editing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. Slightly, but I’m never going to pay for it. There’s not a chance in hell I would pay for it, because it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be unaffordable. I think my realistic expectation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is very late in the year. I think in the September to December time frame.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not even terribly convinced it would be announced at WWDC. I do think that makes the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sense. I completely agree that it makes the most sense, but I don’t know. I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think this is going to be another just under the wire kind of product. And I would like to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hear Marco’s thoughts on when it would be released, but a kind of a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tangential question. Will the Mac pro or air power ship first?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a really good question. I think. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both are kind of like, maybe they’ll never ship.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John The Mac Pro is not maybe it’ll never ship. How can you say that? Because it isn’t out. They promised us it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey coming.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have never heard John more stressed in my entire life.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not an air power who the hell knows because it’s way overdue and they haven’t said anything about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the Mac Pro, they’ve been- They’re both products Apple has announced.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the Mac Pro, they’ve been so straightforward. They said, we’re going to make one. we’re telling you way in advance and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a 2019 product. Like they have not missed any of their, they’ve said

⏹️ ▶️ John like, this is what it’s, every time they’ve said something, they haven’t been proven to be liars yet. And AirPower,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve long since been proven that what they said, they couldn’t pull off. So I feel like AirPower is a big question

⏹️ ▶️ John mark and the Mac Pro is a near certainty, right? Near certainty, say it with me, everybody.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, but did they ever actually say 2019? They definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John said not 2018. They said 2019, now you’re not keeping up with the Mac Pro news. There’s not much of it, but.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they have officially said it will be 2019. They said it is a 2019 product.

⏹️ ▶️ John They did not say it would ship in 2019 or it would be announced, but I don’t know how you can

⏹️ ▶️ John be a 2019 product without at least being announced in 2019. Yeah, I do think that the, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is what they said means

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they intended for it to ship in 2019. But yeah, so as for whether Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro or AirPower will ship first, I’m guessing Mac Pro simply because while both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them are uncertain. Like, until it’s out, we can’t say they will definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco release the Mac Pro. Even though they said they would, they also said they’d release AirPower. So like, you know, things happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things change, plans change. So until it’s out, we can’t say for sure it will ever be out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I do think that the Mac Pro has a much higher chance of coming out than AirPower, so I’m going to vote for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for that question. And then as for the month, when I think the Mac Pro will actually ship to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco customers, I’m guessing my optimistic guess

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be July, but my realistic guess is probably November

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or December.

⏹️ ▶️ John July, I can’t even bring myself to believe that.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Announcement at WWDC,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I can’t imagine it being available in the summer. I can’t be that optimistic, so that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why they fall. It just feels like one of those things, they’d be like, they’d announce it, and it’d be really cool, and it’d

⏹️ ▶️ John be like, coming this fall, and I would be happy with that. I’d be like, fall is fine. and as for when

⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be announced, WWDC or earlier. Or earlier? If it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not announced at WWDC, if it’s not announced at WWDC, I’m like, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what I’m gonna do. Yeah, if we haven’t heard anything, like if they haven’t given any statements or any quotes or anything by after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco WWDC, yeah, that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John a good look. You’re gonna have to have a team of people to take care of me after the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco WWDC keynote if there’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro announced. I don’t know if I can handle this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Follow up question. Do you think that the Pro display, A,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will indeed ship, and B, will it ship before, simultaneously with,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or after the Mac Pro?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it will ship and I think it’ll be simultaneous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s the way it should be. I think it’ll be after though.

⏹️ ▶️ John How can I sell them with no display? They’re gonna make you use the LG thing with it? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gross.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Hell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. That’s what they’ve been making us do, the Mac Mini, the MacBook Pro. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think I will order it if I can’t order it with an Apple display

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey because I will not buy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on the display. Oh really?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was from

⏹️ ▶️ John I was promised an apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco display case. Are you honestly doubting John’s ability to not buy a Mac pro because he’s been not buying Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pros for like ten years

⏹️ ▶️ John as I sit here in front of a twenty three inch apple cinema display, not even a twenty

⏹️ ▶️ John four inch. The backlight on this is not even an led

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John case. Let

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me remind you that John’s current computer. I think off the top of my head, I think, is older than all of our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco children combined. Yep, Oh my word. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey make a good point. So yeah, you know, it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I had this fantasy, of course, you know, cause like whenever we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as Apple fans want something to happen, we always fantasize about this big release, this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big product release that includes everything we want. Because occasionally that kind of happens, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty rare. Usually, you know, you get like one thing you wanted and everything else is kind of, ah, well, it’s kind of partly what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wanted or that I didn’t hear at all about these three things I thought I would hear about this event or whatever. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we know, or we’ve been told the Mac Pro is 2019, and we know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not like super soon in 2019. We also know there’s a Pro display,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they announced would be coming at some unspecified point in the future, but the implication

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was with the Mac Pro. And we’ve heard rumblings that there is gonna be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significant MacBook Pro update this year. What if this is all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one event? And what if it’s WBDC? Which would make the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John sense for

⏹️ ▶️ John it. These are not three separate products. Right. It’s a Mac Pro, it’s a monitor, and it’s a laptop. Oh God.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. It’s the Apple Switch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wait. Yeah. But like, you know, yeah, it’s called the MX. No, like what if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this WBDC ends up being like super awesome and it includes like a MacBook Pro that actually, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, incorporates feedback and is a redesign of some sort and is, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco awesome in some way. a pro display to go along with that MacBook Pro. And hey, by the way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s the Mac Pro we promised you and it’s amazing. And here’s, you know, and that can also go with this display.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I think that like the timing is like all of these things are lining up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to all be released sometime this year, probably. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they’re all pro focused, it would make sense to have this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco attempt to be a combined big pro event.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the laptop people should get in line because the Mac Pro people have been waiting longer.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, your laptops got bad in 2015, right? But the Mac Pro, we’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting since 2013 was the last time anything new was released and that was kind of weird then anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean those things that we’re talking about are, honestly, those aren’t even the headline things

⏹️ ▶️ John that would be announced. If they were all announced, they’re all ancillary because like laptops are actually kind of big.

⏹️ ▶️ John No one cares about the Mac Pro but us. But the real announcements would be whatever the hell they’re doing with Marsapan and whatever the iOS

⏹️ ▶️ John and phone announcements are. Like, those are the headliners, and we’re just arguing for like the

⏹️ ▶️ John second tier and, you know, nth tier. Like, laptops are second tier,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then the Mac Pro is like, you know, it’ll only be mentioned because it’s cool and we’ll have a cool

⏹️ ▶️ John video. But it must be mentioned.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, man, I’m so torn because I want John to be happy, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh, his utter disappointment would be so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John delicious.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re gonna have to carry me out of the theater if this thing is not announced, assuming we even get tickets.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if I can

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey handle it. If that

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t, if they don’t announce anything, I will probably wait till the end of the year and then there’s still nothing announced

⏹️ ▶️ John in 2019 and I’m just gonna get an iMac Pro, assuming they still make those.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll tell you what, the iMac Pro is really good.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, it’s good. So why don’t you buy

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey one right now?

⏹️ ▶️ John Because Apple said that they’re gonna make a computer that might be what I want.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You really think that they’re gonna make something that you can replace video cards and replace

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hard drives and stuff. I don’t even remember what they promised anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It was so damn long ago. I

⏹️ ▶️ John said modular, I don’t know what that means. No one knows what it means.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco We don’t know. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all they said was modular. They gave very little information.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John We don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know. I mean, they could end up making something that I don’t want, like the cylinder, in which case, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll buy a Mac Pro. But if they make something I don’t want, I’d be like, fine. They made a Mac Pro. It’s not exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John what I want, but they did what they said. I will be fine with that. I won’t be like, oh, sad. But if they don’t announce anything,

⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll be like, I just feel like they’re leading me on. Like you have to do something, right? If it’s not what I

⏹️ ▶️ John want, hopefully it’s what somebody wants and I will still applaud them for making it. You said you were gonna make a Mac Pro, you said it was gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John be 2019, you did. And you know, for whatever reason, like maybe it’s $15,000 or maybe it like

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t have the features that I want or has it misbalanced. The main reason with the trash can was like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t, the dual GPUs for like 3D, you know, pro stuff is

⏹️ ▶️ John not, that’s not what I want. I would rather have to have one gaming card. It’s not the computer they made, even though I thought it was a really cool computer,

⏹️ ▶️ John it just wasn’t what I wanted, right? And I was just gonna wait for the next one. Ha ha ha.

⏹️ ▶️ John But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah, if they

⏹️ ▶️ John make a Mac Pro and it’s not what I want, fine, at least they made something. But if they don’t say anything, I won’t be able to handle it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Then again, you know, what? Like, I think about all the product announcement

⏹️ ▶️ John disappointments in my life, and the Mac Pro is the biggest technological

⏹️ ▶️ John one, or close to it anyway. I mean, maybe waiting for TV technology, which we’ll get into our next topic

⏹️ ▶️ John is similar. But the other thing to compare it to is waiting

⏹️ ▶️ John after Return of the Jedi for another Star Wars movie and then having them be the prequels and then waiting after the prequels,

⏹️ ▶️ John like saying goodbye to Star Wars and then waiting for another Star Wars movie to be made and having

⏹️ ▶️ John it be The Force Awakens. So I’ve been on this rollercoaster a few times before

⏹️ ▶️ John and sometimes the wait isn’t even longer. And sometimes it turns out badly, like the prequels, sometimes it turns out

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty well, like The Force Awakens. So here’s hoping this is the Force Awakens of Mac Pros.