catatp.fm Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

466: There's Probably a Wizard for It

Microsoft and Activision Blizzard, iMessage vs. green-bubble people, and a gaming PC finally doing what PCs do best.

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Chapters

  1. BSOD, TPM, FML
  2. How are trucks loaded?
  3. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  4. Printer bloodbaths
  5. LG 5K service video
  6. Microsoft + Activision Blizzard
  7. Sponsor: Mack Weldon (code ATP)
  8. iMessage vs. green bubbles
  9. Sponsor: Linode
  10. #askatp: Next-gen OS foundation?
  11. #askatp: Which game console?
  12. #askatp: Bugs from hyphenated name?
  13. Ending theme
  14. Coconut jerk store

BSOD, TPM, FML

⏹️ ▶️ adams gaming pc has started to regularly bluescreen oh you don’t say so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ been the windows installation has been there for six months or more i have absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ no idea what to do about it blow up the dust all kidding aside

⏹️ ▶️ when i last regularly used windows and we were talking before even the bootlegs started marco

⏹️ ▶️ and i were that i haven’t regularly used windows in like a vm anyway

⏹️ ▶️ since like twenty eighteen and i don’t think i’ve had a windows

⏹️ ▶️ installation since like the early twenty ten’s like i think i

⏹️ ▶️ went maybe even earlier than that like late outs early tens so

⏹️ ▶️ it’s been a long time since i’ve used windows for more than literally five minutes but when i

⏹️ ▶️ was a devout or maybe avid i guess i should say windows user it used to be the rule of thumb

⏹️ ▶️ was every six months you destroy everything and put it back where it was and and

⏹️ ▶️ and you’ll start start anew so you would clean out all the craft and get all the junk out now it would not surprise

⏹️ ▶️ me if that is not at all the case today but how long has adam’s computer been operational that

⏹️ ▶️ was tip’s first gaming pc from like two and a half or three years ago

⏹️ ▶️ something like that and so there’s a number of factors here so number one

⏹️ ▶️ it is it was very well speck at the time it has the mobile

⏹️ ▶️ nvidia twenty eighty so it’s actually a pretty well

⏹️ ▶️ speck computer for you know whatever two years ago whenever you know whatever we bought it the

⏹️ ▶️ downside of the twenty eight in a laptop and whatever that giant version of it was to begin with

⏹️ ▶️ is that it’s a very large very hot running to you and so

⏹️ ▶️ already i’m thinking oh no this laptop that worked totally solidly

⏹️ ▶️ for you know two years and then all of a sudden has started like blue screening regularly

⏹️ ▶️ while playing games like um i don’t feel great about that from a hardware

⏹️ ▶️ perspective but then i’m thinking like well if it is something stupid and software related

⏹️ ▶️ i’ll feel really dumb if we end up like you know replacing it or somehow getting at service i don’t even know how it would do

⏹️ ▶️ that like like i’m so far from the pc world at this point

⏹️ ▶️ i have no idea like can i sell this can i trade it into somebody

⏹️ ▶️ the most marco answers as i sell and get a new one you can sell anything that

⏹️ ▶️ someone’s willing to buy i don’t think you need permission from our knowledge of the pc market to do that

⏹️ ▶️ you can just put things for sale i mean you just explain how to sell things on ebay this is a thing you can sell it on ebay yeah

⏹️ ▶️ but like if the gpu might be freaking out like i can’t really in good conscience sell that to a person like

⏹️ ▶️ if there was some kind of like trading thing i could do that but you don’t know that the gps like me out you’re just speculating

⏹️ ▶️ it occasionally blew screens but that could be anything it regularly blue screens

⏹️ ▶️ and like it’s so funny like because i’m so far from from using windows regularly i mean

⏹️ ▶️ the last time i used windows regularly the version i used was xp i never used vista or anything after it

⏹️ ▶️ until getting the gaming pcs and we literally use them only for gaming

⏹️ ▶️ so they they’re basically consoles to us we open them up and you know lunch steamer

⏹️ ▶️ the minecraft launcher and go from there and that’s about all we do on them and so it’s funny

⏹️ ▶️ like you know all these years i hear you as nurses you always hear stories of people

⏹️ ▶️ in your life i i don’t want to upgrade to the latest software it’s going to break everything and

⏹️ ▶️ meet meanwhile these pcs they have windows ten i think on them and they started asking

⏹️ ▶️ very aggressively for us to upgrade windows eleven and i’m thinking of this

⏹️ ▶️ like from my point of view like why why would i want to touch anything

⏹️ ▶️ it works mostly it works now why opens well

⏹️ ▶️ yeah okay fair enough but the other two they work totally fine so it was like why would i

⏹️ ▶️ want to do a software update if everything works i whatever it’s

⏹️ ▶️ adding i couldn’t possibly care less about like any features adding to windows i don’t even know i don’t care

⏹️ ▶️ these things are only gaming consoles to us and so like the last thing i

⏹️ ▶️ want is to update upgrade my version of windows which like you know best case scenario

⏹️ ▶️ nothing about my life changes that’s the best case scenario and there’s

⏹️ ▶️ lots of worse case scenarios where something that works before doesn’t now like and i’m

⏹️ ▶️ realizing like this is how regular people have thought about computers forever

⏹️ ▶️ like it’s so kind of funny and sad like first of all how many how many people

⏹️ ▶️ never update their software for for this very good reason of like you know what i did it once it broke stuff

⏹️ ▶️ i was burned and i don’t want to do it again and and you know asking lytic lly like what

⏹️ ▶️ is he going to do for me and then also like how much hardware especially

⏹️ ▶️ in the pc world is be honest how much hardware that’s been perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ fine has been replaced due to software bugs and the person will just like look

⏹️ ▶️ i can’t afford to or don’t have the skills to figure this out i’m just going to buy a new one

⏹️ ▶️ like i can’t tell you how many like when i was in the pc i’m sure i’m sure you both have seen

⏹️ ▶️ this i can’t tell you how many pc’s i saw people replace that were just like oh it’s

⏹️ ▶️ old and slow as it was full of spyware and like if you could have just reformatted and reinstalled windows

⏹️ ▶️ on it and it would have been fun like the hardware was fine but people like

⏹️ ▶️ so much pc hardware has been discarded and replaced over time that was

⏹️ ▶️ totally a hundred per cent fine because people were misdiagnosis software problems for hardware problems or

⏹️ ▶️ that was the easiest way out of the problem for them or the fastest or the only thing they knew they could do

⏹️ ▶️ um you know whatever it is and here i am like waffling over that same dilemma

⏹️ ▶️ what do i do about this damn computer like it’s not it’s now it’s unreliable do we

⏹️ ▶️ do we replace it it seems kind of wasteful to replace it right at this point but why aren’t you

⏹️ ▶️ using the ah the old ways to wipe it and reinstall i mean that’s a reasonable first step especially

⏹️ ▶️ if the only thing you ever do with it is game or everything is on steam or whatever it’s not like you need to preserve anything wipe

⏹️ ▶️ and reinstall and if that cures it then yeah it was some weird software thing that you didn’t have to figure out but at the very least

⏹️ ▶️ do that right well so i’m thinking of that and that’s that that might be what i do

⏹️ ▶️ next but like i don’t know how to do that any more like i have no idea how to do that

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t know where games are storing their files i have no idea how to preserve like all the

⏹️ ▶️ you know the progress adams made in his game and some of that that’s why steam is good i mean we talked about steam before what

⏹️ ▶️ does it bring you for steam at least you don’t have to worry about that because steam will take care of it all pretty much everything

⏹️ ▶️ has cloud sink saves and all the games obviously themselves around steam my micro i don’t know the answer to

⏹️ ▶️ that but i assume microsoft does a reasonable job but if you had individual installed a bunch of games yes that’s

⏹️ ▶️ where you’d be but still as i’m sure you know you can reinstall windows without erasing the

⏹️ ▶️ hard drive honestly i don’t even know how to do that like i don’t even like i know there’s probably some general wizard for

⏹️ ▶️ it i know there’s probably probably like you know hold some key command at boot and it probably has its own like system recovery

⏹️ ▶️ and then then you’ll see a big screen with white text on a black background they’ll tell you two if you want to do this and three

⏹️ ▶️ if you want to do that and you’ll be like modern technology as you look at your drive letters let me jump into

⏹️ ▶️ my bio set rise you my ram count and by the way if you had said okay to that windows

⏹️ ▶️ eleven thing you just would he found that you don’t have to buy now and you can’t upgrade to windows eleven anyway

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t even know is that going to trust the platform module is that like we actually did that windows eleven

⏹️ ▶️ requires t p m two point you probably have it i’m just making a joke and i’m kind of bitter because i couldn’t update

⏹️ ▶️ it i was willing to up to get my windows gaming pc installation which which is an external

⏹️ ▶️ ssd that i plug into my mac pro um it has like what i think i have windows eight on it and

⏹️ ▶️ i must have windows ten windows ten on it and i was like oh great windows eleven what the hell

⏹️ ▶️ like and i said no sorry you don’t have t p m two pino and then i did all this googling to see does

⏹️ ▶️ the mac pro have something that can fool the windows into thinking

⏹️ ▶️ its tpm to put on i don’t know and i just gave up so i’m stuck at windows

⏹️ ▶️ ten as well i remember like when when the t p m stuff was first floated like and this

⏹️ ▶️ was back when i was using pcs and and and the let’s say the pc enthusiast

⏹️ ▶️ community was not very thrilled with the idea of basically like d r m support in hardware in

⏹️ ▶️ our in our computers and it’s funny to think back like now in today’s world we carry

⏹️ ▶️ around these phones and we have tablets we have computers all of them have hardware drm support

⏹️ ▶️ deeply like there’s so much hardware drm support everything with an hd port has hardware drm

⏹️ ▶️ support like so much hardware drm everywhere in all the devices and we just like

⏹️ ▶️ not only did we lose that fight like we were annihilated in that fight

⏹️ ▶️ and like no one cared not really because part of it like the reason the main

⏹️ ▶️ benefit we get from t p m stuff and all the secure stuff that we have on on even max today

⏹️ ▶️ and iphones and everything is not the one that the tpm like the ant

⏹️ ▶️ people complaining are they’re like oh this is going to put drm and everything and we’re not going to be able to share all our

⏹️ ▶️ songs through napster and something they would spin out all these things about how it’s going to make it more difficult to

⏹️ ▶️ pirate stuff and make our software not ours or whatever but the actual main

⏹️ ▶️ important function of all these things is to provide a trusted chain of trust for booting so that the machine

⏹️ ▶️ knows that it’s booting something that is trusted and yet have that chain trust has to go the way down to the hardware

⏹️ ▶️ right to try to make it a it’s it’s much much harder not impossible

⏹️ ▶️ because there are bugs in these things but much much harder to sort of like get a root kit in there that even if you wipe the os

⏹️ ▶️ you’re still infected right and you know that whole secure boot boot thing that’s on the modern maxis

⏹️ ▶️ on our i s devices and ipads and everything like that that is a thing about being confident that you’re running

⏹️ ▶️ the os your thinking run which no one complained you know has a complaint about everybody wants that no

⏹️ ▶️ one wants to be you know root kitted or exploited away in a way that’s like deep in your hardware

⏹️ ▶️ but in theory that same hardware can be made to like oh this program won’t run unless it checks for a secret

⏹️ ▶️ key that we embed in the secure enclave of equivalent and the t p m baba and that just

⏹️ ▶️ didn’t really happen plain old normal software based the arm like fair play or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ the hell apple calls the modern one is we have that back then and we have

⏹️ ▶️ it now and that’s mostly all apple uses for this type of thing like all the exploits on the

⏹️ ▶️ iphone and everything aren’t about like oh i can’t sideload because apple has encryption is like no

⏹️ ▶️ if you jailbreak the os you can sideload the hell you want like and the jailbreak doesn’t involve well

⏹️ ▶️ sometimes it involves breaking the hardware level or whatever but the the the slippery slope fantasies

⏹️ ▶️ of tpm and having this security hardware in all our devices that dystopia was going

⏹️ ▶️ to bring it didn’t bring it all it brought us was secure boot which is the thing we all like the

⏹️ ▶️ dystopia of drama and everything doesn’t require the hardware it just requires people being annoying

⏹️ ▶️ and stupid with their you know with how they sell things and people still do that all the time copy protection

⏹️ ▶️ you know dear man you know that music is dear i’m free but apple’s irons movies

⏹️ ▶️ are still not dear i’m free for some stupid reason because it prevents piracy because everyone knows you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ find movies on the internet thanks apple that dear am made sure that no one will ever pirate a movie

⏹️ ▶️ again success no what it did was it it made it so i can’t take screenshots of movies to make jokes on twitter that’s

⏹️ ▶️ what the term did that’s what we should have been fighting about but that didn’t require t p m that just requires stupid

⏹️ ▶️ software anyway rant over

How are trucks loaded?

⏹️ ▶️ you know i have a tangentially related question which i’m now totally derailing the conversation

⏹️ ▶️ but this conversation was never railed casey when there’s

⏹️ ▶️ something like let’s say something that’s exclusive to disney plus um i don’t know i

⏹️ ▶️ like hamilton a year ago and there exists on the back of tree

⏹️ ▶️ falling off the back of trucks there exists a copy of hamilton how are those captured

⏹️ ▶️ like are are people playing this on

⏹️ ▶️ some sort of like t v and then using like some illicit hd capture card that doesn’t respect

⏹️ ▶️ r m or something like how does that work that that is very weak sauce

⏹️ ▶️ piracy you don’t want to take an encoded file of some kind decompress

⏹️ ▶️ it and push it and send it over a wire and try to capture it like how

⏹️ ▶️ do you do it though if you use like h shacks or does a f d r m like options

⏹️ ▶️ so there’s a million ways to uh to pirate things obviously

⏹️ ▶️ i think one of the most common used to be back in the day when we had physical media was they

⏹️ ▶️ send screen your d v d s t and they would just get the actual digital files off there and then they started

⏹️ ▶️ watermarking them and stuff like that most streaming services either used to or still

⏹️ ▶️ have a way to send the actual encoded file and pieces that you that you know

⏹️ ▶️ and you could just sort of intercept those pieces and stick them all together probably with the ampeg a kinda like

⏹️ ▶️ what what you do for the keanu streams right if you can get the data as

⏹️ ▶️ as it would come into the dakota to go onto your screen capture it that way you don’t have to play it them and recapture

⏹️ ▶️ it i mean and i think this is how um so i’m actually talking

⏹️ ▶️ a little bit outside my comfort zone believe it or not if i were to download something from like

⏹️ ▶️ n b c dot com you know for for i don’t know for example like this is us or something like that like i

⏹️ ▶️ could use hypothetically you know youtube dl or what is it y t d l p is the blessed version

⏹️ ▶️ now and and i can log in to my verizon fios to show that i have access

⏹️ ▶️ to this thing and it does magic and i know that h l s is involved though now you

⏹️ ▶️ know everything i know about h l s but one way or another it does magic to do

⏹️ ▶️ i think exactly what you’re describing john but i had assumed in and presume that it

⏹️ ▶️ is not quite so simple for like a disney plus or netflix is another great example like i just i wonder

⏹️ ▶️ how those are captured if something with if a mature

⏹️ ▶️ reasonably mature tool chain like you to do can’t do it which i don’t think it can well i mean the final

⏹️ ▶️ way is just break the encryption i mean said is done obviously but like it only takes one person to do it and

⏹️ ▶️ you know obviously d c s s broke the dvd encryption agents ago but every one of these things it has some kind of drm

⏹️ ▶️ thing is crack able and getting back to the t p m thing maybe if if there

⏹️ ▶️ was a mandatory hardware component it would be slightly harder to crack these things and i see only slightly but

⏹️ ▶️ lots of security related hardware that is just so thoroughly broken like if think intel stops shipping there and they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ to stop shipping or stop supporting s g x which is one of their secure enclave things just because it was so

⏹️ ▶️ thoroughly and massively broken and when it’s in silicon at a bunch of chips you just have to basically say

⏹️ ▶️ yeah that’s over now we’re not doing that anymore because it’s so thoroughly broken and you can’t change

⏹️ ▶️ it because it’s in millions of chips and so it’s like that’s not a thing anymore right um i wish d v d

⏹️ ▶️ had done that but that industry moves slower but yet you can you know crack the encryption like they say in the movies once

⏹️ ▶️ someone gets through it it’s a you know open season everything i think fair play

⏹️ ▶️ was cracked pretty early on too i don’t know if the current version of fair play is but that’s that’s the final way to do it it’s

⏹️ ▶️ like you’ve got the file somewhere if i can download it in disney plus it’s like oh but it’s encrypted on your eye bad

⏹️ ▶️ how are you going to play it oh we we broke that encryption already and so there you go all right so where were

⏹️ ▶️ we so how are you fixing your computer and pirate we are pirating movies which is not possible because

⏹️ ▶️ uh apple puts derham and everything right and because a of t p m i can reinstall windows

⏹️ ▶️ possibly exactly i have no i mean people complain about that but i think pretty much every

⏹️ ▶️ modern pc supports tpm two point it was just people with some older pcs or like enthusiast set

⏹️ ▶️ ups that didn’t have t p that were suddenly locked out of windows and it’s like why do we even care like i don’t know but anyway

⏹️ ▶️ it as it was a controversial move anytime anything obsolete hardware and the pcs space someone complains yeah i would

⏹️ ▶️ imagine that’s not going to be my limit factor my lemon factors going to be a am i ever really going

⏹️ ▶️ to like figure out how to reinstall windows on this laptop and then b

⏹️ ▶️ am i going to actually want to spend probably a day like he’s

⏹️ ▶️ not going to be a small operation for me because like i haven’t done this in how many

⏹️ ▶️ years i mean twenty years maybe like it’s been a long time so and

⏹️ ▶️ and i’m sure everything is like i’m sure all the crappy stuff is the same as it was twenty years ago but

⏹️ ▶️ i’m sure a lot of the other stuff is totally different and so i’m going to have to like re learn the entire process and

⏹️ ▶️ just like this is why people buy new computers and they don’t have to because that’s honestly

⏹️ ▶️ an idea that if this computer was a little bit older i would probably strongly

⏹️ ▶️ consider this and if there was an easy way to like trade it in somewhere i would probably strongly consider

⏹️ ▶️ that idea but it’s not and it’s not and so after that after that figure out like

⏹️ ▶️ oh how the heck do i do this is probably easier than it was and then how do i put on like all the drivers

⏹️ ▶️ and everything i don’t want it who wants to deal with that who has time for that but i say if you if you just reinstall

⏹️ ▶️ windows you won’t have to reinstall the drivers so that they’ll still be there i think oh i doubt that very

⏹️ ▶️ much but i don’t know i mean i’m probably going to have to like find some like

⏹️ ▶️ me of today like like teenage me who like people i used to

⏹️ ▶️ guess what that’s adam i know people used to pay me like a hundred bucks to reinstall windows on

⏹️ ▶️ their pcs like you know adults would like when i was in high school cause like and now i understand why adam will probably

⏹️ ▶️ give you the family right yeah but now i totally understand why like if if i could

⏹️ ▶️ hire some kid to come here and just do this for me and it would work for a hundred bucks i would totally

⏹️ ▶️ do that because i’d do it that would save me a whole day all right come on a travel

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Printer bloodbaths

⏹️ ▶️ all right we should probably start the show

⏹️ ▶️ and let’s do that with some follow up as we are contractually obligated to do uh

⏹️ ▶️ john sambucus has a picture for us with regard to their printer

⏹️ ▶️ and oh my gosh this is very distressing

⏹️ ▶️ yes this is the his hp photosmart thirty one hundred

⏹️ ▶️ dexter murder room version this is an ink jet printer will put a link to the tweet and maybe marco can make

⏹️ ▶️ this chapter art or maybe not you never know until you look a look at the chapter if your

⏹️ ▶️ pocket player doesn’t sport chapter try using overcast pizza does um yeah

⏹️ ▶️ japanes are a mess inside but turns out richard smith has a picture of the inside of

⏹️ ▶️ his printer and it happens to be the printer that margo loves so much his h b m five five three

⏹️ ▶️ ink jet colour ink jet whatever and it’s a disaster inside there too it’s a laser it’s

⏹️ ▶️ a color laser it’s massive it’s amazing how can you think it’s an ink jet i’m saying look at the

⏹️ ▶️ picture but i’ll soon i saw i saw it’s a mess there’s a little bit of magenta

⏹️ ▶️ in the area a little come on man i mean this is what i

⏹️ ▶️ mean you look inside a printer and it looks like you know an income room how does

⏹️ ▶️ a paper pass through this and not come out streaked with every colour under the rainbow but apparently it does apparently

⏹️ ▶️ the paper path is clean but everything else is just destroyed oh yeah those were

⏹️ ▶️ those were slightly traumatizing

LG 5K service video

⏹️ ▶️ speaking of traumatizing uh let’s see who this was this is brian ameda tweeted at me earlier

⏹️ ▶️ today and apparently there’s a youtube channel what is this called northridge

⏹️ ▶️ fix and i believe this is a repair shop northridge california and the

⏹️ ▶️ proprietor will repair things and you know do videos showing him

⏹️ ▶️ repairing it and today actually yes i think it was literally today the

⏹️ ▶️ proprietor repaired guess what a broken usb c connection on an lg ultrafine five

⏹️ ▶️ monitor mine works fine what are you talking about you must be wrong these always work so

⏹️ ▶️ anyway so the monitor does not make an appearance but the motherboard

⏹️ ▶️ does and in the span of about fifteen video minutes this gentleman

⏹️ ▶️ and i found this fascinating because i my my electronics experience a was a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ in college and then you know screwing around with raspberry pie what was it two years ago now and so i

⏹️ ▶️ understand the general principles behind what’s going on but if you had asked me to do any of these things it would have

⏹️ ▶️ been a disaster so anyways he like you know repairs this connection including

⏹️ ▶️ like you know removing some sadder applying new sauder fixing some lines on the

⏹️ ▶️ pcb like it’s very intricate and very interesting and in the span of fifteen

⏹️ ▶️ minutes this guy gets his motherboard good as new meanwhile my l g five k arrived at

⏹️ ▶️ lg’s repair center in city of industry california on the twenty second of december and

⏹️ ▶️ i have heard precisely about it since then and i am getting more

⏹️ ▶️ and more preferred by it so there there’s that so that’s my update for the day

⏹️ ▶️ always has the best service case this is totally an anomaly yep definitely an anomaly foreshore

⏹️ ▶️ this video shows the kind of repair that apple does not allow or like to do which means

⏹️ ▶️ changing components on the circuit board by resorting them or doing whatever

⏹️ ▶️ apple solution is always new circuit board fresh new circuit board everything new because this type of repair

⏹️ ▶️ inevitably things will corrode later and blah blah blah if youve ever i’m looking at this video

⏹️ ▶️ parsing what’s his name louis rossmann the guy was talking about

⏹️ ▶️ in that right to repair thing he has a similar channel where he shows similar repairs only he’s

⏹️ ▶️ got like the amount of this is zoomed in i think his assumed in maybe two to three times as

⏹️ ▶️ much for even tinier completeness and he’s got these little tiny tiny soldering

⏹️ ▶️ iron needle y things that look huge in the video but in reality are these

⏹️ ▶️ you get smaller components get this hard or this becomes so this looks like

⏹️ ▶️ within the realm then human might be able to accomplish it but sometimes when rossman does things

⏹️ ▶️ like how far you sum sum and it’s like doing microsurgery where the tiny tip of the

⏹️ ▶️ hypodermic needle fills the entire screen as if it’s just like a tree trunk

⏹️ ▶️ so yes anyway it was interesting and also depressing to see this so thank you to brian

Microsoft + Activision Blizzard

⏹️ ▶️ so breaking yesterday i believe it was microsoft has decided

⏹️ ▶️ to acquire activision blizzard for almost seventy billion dollars

⏹️ ▶️ so you might know you might have heard of activision for a variety of reasons mostly their games but

⏹️ ▶️ lately you might have heard about them because of the apparent frat house that is their corporate

⏹️ ▶️ culture and so they microsoft got them at a steel they were worth

⏹️ ▶️ like over a hundred billion i think like a year ago and now they have acquired activision

⏹️ ▶️ blizzard or are about to acquire activision blizzard and it seems like they’re saying without

⏹️ ▶️ saying they’re going to clean house at the very least the ceo i think is bobby kotak or something like

⏹️ ▶️ that and potentially more of senior management at activision which seems like a reasonable course of action

⏹️ ▶️ as the numbers here are really big someone john eric mann tweeted

⏹️ ▶️ a list of microsoft’s biggest acquisitions a number one is this one the activision blizzard

⏹️ ▶️ for seventy ish billion second place is linked in i mean this is like a list of companies

⏹️ ▶️ you forgot microsoft bought second second in they bought them that was twenty six billion so

⏹️ ▶️ like less than half the size a nuance the speech recognition

⏹️ ▶️ company they used to do like dragon dictate i think where they they licensed their speech engine tons of people that was twenty

⏹️ ▶️ billion scip was eight billion xenia which no one has ever heard of but i think we talked about on the show was

⏹️ ▶️ seven billion that xine max own bought it software doom quake all that things and they owned a

⏹️ ▶️ bunch of other stuff as well microsoft bought github i’m not sure if people remember that but they did that was also seven and

⏹️ ▶️ a half billion nokia i remember that seven point two

⏹️ ▶️ billion a quanti i don’t even know what the hell that is six point three billion and then minecraft

⏹️ ▶️ for two point five billion so microsoft has purchased a lot of things

⏹️ ▶️ but this activision blizzard thing is big if you

⏹️ ▶️ think about what they’re buying like all like reading the articles about it because they would have to they’re writing

⏹️ ▶️ an artful general audience that doesn’t know who activision blizzard is so they have to say you don’t know the name

⏹️ ▶️ of this company kind of like me with a quantitative but here are the things they own that you might have heard of so

⏹️ ▶️ the wall street journal listed in their in their article had said that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ getting a stable of popular game franchises including call duty world of warcraft candy

⏹️ ▶️ crush so there’s three choices from the very large catalogue they’re getting people have probably heard of call

⏹️ ▶️ of duty may be world of ocra probably candy crush if you haven’t heard the other two you’ve probably heard of candy crush

⏹️ ▶️ but activision blizzard as the weird name implies is a huge conglomeration

⏹️ ▶️ of things blizzard used to be his own company activision used to be a game company than a game publisher

⏹️ ▶️ and activision bought tons of things and eventually they bought blizzard and they just got bigger and bigger and had more and more ip

⏹️ ▶️ and then microsoft gobbled them all up and a lot of people were comparing this

⏹️ ▶️ to like when disney went and bought all the things disney bought

⏹️ ▶️ star wars then they bought marvel and of course they have all the disney stuff it’s like wow disney owns everything

⏹️ ▶️ that’s why disney plus can be extremely service that does all the things like they’re not small franchises

⏹️ ▶️ a disney but saw her or was it four billion i don’t remember i think the

⏹️ ▶️ boat marvel for also four billion i may be in the specific numbers wrong but those are

⏹️ ▶️ mid single digit billions for star wars and all of marvel

⏹️ ▶️ ah and they bought this game company for seventy billion i

⏹️ ▶️ mean you always hear like games are bigger than movies which is true but that should give you some idea

⏹️ ▶️ of what how how much what they bought was worth they didn’t just buy stars they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ just buy marvel they bought tons of extremely lucrative franchises and customers they bought cause

⏹️ ▶️ people willing world of warcraft for what is it multiple decades now at least one and a half decades or something

⏹️ ▶️ those are subscribers who pay every month to play a game as a bunch of other games that are like that and then all

⏹️ ▶️ these other important franchises that make tons and tons of money not to mention you know future

⏹️ ▶️ games that could be made by the various game development studios that

⏹️ ▶️ are within activation blizzard so it is a huge purchase the wall

⏹️ ▶️ street journal article said that ah this makes this would make microsoft the world’s

⏹️ ▶️ third largest game and company don’t look at the notes um try to guess what the

⏹️ ▶️ number one and two are without looking if you didn’t already read it oh gosh

⏹️ ▶️ i did not read it i don’t have the faintest idea i’m going to say number two is probably nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ is electronic art still a thing i believe so number one pro e a and

⏹️ ▶️ the number two nintendo well you got to think like a strategy on

⏹️ ▶️ we chat me you probably know the new company anyway um number two

⏹️ ▶️ ten cent or that makes sense yes the other thing you have to remember is that

⏹️ ▶️ mobile gaming is the biggest part of gaming right which we don’t think about when we think of gaming

⏹️ ▶️ at number one and this is kind of bogus number one sony really yeah

⏹️ ▶️ but here’s you there was the trick question right i would make it the third largest game

⏹️ ▶️ and company by revenue yeah sony has a lot of revenue but not all that from video

⏹️ ▶️ games i mean sony makes other things besides video games so i think that’s a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ books ah but that’s what that’s why everyone is sort of like feeling the ground shake especially

⏹️ ▶️ the sort of hardcore gamers who don’t maybe care that much about mobile is because now microsoft

⏹️ ▶️ who as you might know has gaming multiple gaming platforms pc gaming

⏹️ ▶️ which basically means microsoft pc gaming and not so much linux gaming and of course

⏹️ ▶️ xbox and their competitors are on the console side our sony nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ nintendo is the tiniest drop in the bucket you could possibly imagine they are not on this list

⏹️ ▶️ but now microsoft owns tons and tons of ip

⏹️ ▶️ as they say tons and tons of franchises many of which i would say most of which

⏹️ ▶️ used to be available on platforms other than microsofts right so you

⏹️ ▶️ could buy many of the games made by activision blizzard you could buy them for playstation and occasionally

⏹️ ▶️ you could buy them for nintendo consoles when they felt like throwing some shovel ware of last year’s game onto a nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ platform or you know they just want to catch it on the switch craze or whatever so if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ a gamer and you look at this you’re like oh no i don’t currently have an xbox i have

⏹️ ▶️ a playstation or a switch or whatever will i be able to play the next version of

⏹️ ▶️ insert my favorite game here now that microsoft don’t it because historically one thing

⏹️ ▶️ that especially console makers have done is when they buy a franchise or

⏹️ ▶️ a developer or a publisher or whatever the next version of that game will only be for their platform

⏹️ ▶️ it will be exclusive to their platform that’s the point of buying them you know i will buy rare and the next version

⏹️ ▶️ of perfect dark will not be on nintendo platforms it will only be on consoles and it will stink and everyone

⏹️ ▶️ will be sad but anyway microsoft does on rare by the way

⏹️ ▶️ that you know it was the old move it’s like i bought the franchise and now it’s only going to be in our platforms that’s

⏹️ ▶️ another reson for you to buy things so if you’re a game and you don’t have an x lex lawyer might be kind of sad but the

⏹️ ▶️ even if you’re not a hardcore gamer you look at these numbers and you like is it really healthy for

⏹️ ▶️ a company that itself has gaming platforms you know piece gaming and the xbox

⏹️ ▶️ gaming platform to also own the so many of

⏹️ ▶️ the most popular game franchises you united in the entertainment

⏹️ ▶️ world like disney owns everything and that’s terrible and it makes us sad and really controls

⏹️ ▶️ a lot of what gets made but disney doesn’t own you know forty percent

⏹️ ▶️ of the movie theaters not that this is particularly a great analogy here but i’m trying they don’t they don’t own the means

⏹️ ▶️ to watch those things right they they they only i p to make the movies but

⏹️ ▶️ ah you don’t have to buy a special disney console to watch the movies if they owned both all the t

⏹️ ▶️ v s and d v d players or half the t v s and d v d players and movie theaters and also all of the

⏹️ ▶️ you know the franchises that constitute the movies that would be kind of upsetting

⏹️ ▶️ so i look at this and i know there’s not anything well i don’t think there’s anything particularly

⏹️ ▶️ to stop it from like antitrust or whatever because in the grand scheme of things mobile still bigger and if you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ really slice indice the market and say well it’s not a big deal because the gaming market is so big and we

⏹️ ▶️ can’t say it’s just i only care about the console gaming market you have to really get narrow

⏹️ ▶️ it’s kind of like as say all the time oh you know honda has a monopoly on honda cars

⏹️ ▶️ well they do but like that’s you’re slicing the market too narrowly or apple has a monopoly

⏹️ ▶️ on apple computers yeah but that’s stupid

⏹️ ▶️ so if you look at the entire world of gaming microsoft is

⏹️ ▶️ still small but if you look at the world of console gaming they look a little bit bigger and

⏹️ ▶️ what i may look at mainly look at is of microsoft’s competitors particularly on the console

⏹️ ▶️ platform how do their competitors look compared to them in terms of stable of i

⏹️ ▶️ p that they own and nobody comes close nintendo arguably comes the closest just because they

⏹️ ▶️ they’re they made all their own i p like the stuff that makes nintendo nintendo nintendo made

⏹️ ▶️ but it’s not a lot of it like there’s not as many franchises as microsoft ones

⏹️ ▶️ sony has also bought tons of studios and built up its ip catalog through acquisitions

⏹️ ▶️ but it has fallen way behind microsoft in terms of gobbling up other things in the industry

⏹️ ▶️ um so i look at this and i get a little bit frightened but the thing that makes

⏹️ ▶️ me feel a little bit better is the things usually safe to balance when

⏹️ ▶️ a big company buys a smaller company they screw it up when a company buys

⏹️ ▶️ some ip they mess it up in some way right that that basically the shelf life of i p

⏹️ ▶️ especially for video games is not guaranteed so you buy call of duty

⏹️ ▶️ a you like great we’ll be minting money from colum all duty for the next twenty years

⏹️ ▶️ you won’t if you make bad games to give an example i don’t want to crap this on this

⏹️ ▶️ but like a bungee made halo and then split from microsoft but microsoft kept halo it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ great well we have the i p we don’t need those stinky bungee people we’ve got the hall we continue we can continue to

⏹️ ▶️ make halo games without them and they did continue to make halo games without them and not that they were bad and in particular

⏹️ ▶️ halo in is much better than the recent ones but they never recaptured the

⏹️ ▶️ magic of the original bunge made series of three or four halo games right

⏹️ ▶️ i p is like that you can’t just say well because we own it we’re going to do a great job but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ kind of the inverse of the marvel effect right marvel i p was owned and optioned

⏹️ ▶️ by various people at various times for years and years and nobody can make anything out of it and they sold

⏹️ ▶️ it for a song to you know a company that said well actually we are going to make good movies with marvel material

⏹️ ▶️ and we’re going to start with iron man and they’d be like whoa it’s like i’ll just trust me it’ll be good they

⏹️ ▶️ took i it that no one could do anything with and made something good out of it it’s equally likely

⏹️ ▶️ probably more likely to take it that the people have made amazing things with and make some duds

⏹️ ▶️ because it’s hard to like just owning the ip doesn’t mean you can actually do the thing and particularly in creative

⏹️ ▶️ fields can you make a good game can you make a good movie you know if you own the

⏹️ ▶️ characters fine that’s a start and you get people in seats but over the course of many many years if

⏹️ ▶️ you don’t make good games aren’t based on these franchises people will leave you behind so

⏹️ ▶️ you know that’s why it’s important that i just buy the ip they also about the studios that made them and the people that made them and so

⏹️ ▶️ on and so forth but even within that i feel like in the games world there are very few with the

⏹️ ▶️ exception again possibly of nintendo stuff very few sort of franchises

⏹️ ▶️ that have stood the test of time and not sort of withered and

⏹️ ▶️ been replaced by other franchises and nintendo has done it by basically yes mario and

⏹️ ▶️ all the games but like what does you know mario galaxy have in common

⏹️ ▶️ with the original super marbella in terms of game designing gameplay very very very little you think

⏹️ ▶️ oh he’s a guy as a plumber he jumps around but nintendo has had to reinvent it its

⏹️ ▶️ franchises over and over and over again to remain relevant and that is extremely difficult to do

⏹️ ▶️ so you know can call duty make the leap to vr in twenty seventy five

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t know i mean i think i feel like it’ll just be defunct and be replaced by other franchises

⏹️ ▶️ so i’m kind of rooting for this ploy not to work as well as it has

⏹️ ▶️ for maybe arguably disney and for microsoft to not

⏹️ ▶️ become the overwhelm dominant force in console gaming cause i’m a console

⏹️ ▶️ gamer and i don’t want microsoft to have that much power now this is interesting

⏹️ ▶️ i’m i don’t know i’m actually because i’m not much of a gamer almost

⏹️ ▶️ most interested to see if the cultural changes that microsoft is hinting are

⏹️ ▶️ coming actually do arrive and if they actually do make a difference it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ interesting for me because my little brother actually used to work there until this past summer i believe and

⏹️ ▶️ so it’s it’s kind of fascinating watching from from the outside and i spoke with him very briefly earlier

⏹️ ▶️ today and i don’t think he had really had time to talk to his former co workers at that point but it’s it’s interesting

⏹️ ▶️ to watch to say the least some people look at the story and think this shows the consequences for screwing

⏹️ ▶️ up your company by having a terrible culture that is abusive and disrespectful to your employees

⏹️ ▶️ and sexist and filled with harassment and all that stuff it’s like ah see it tanked the value of the

⏹️ ▶️ company and then someone swooped in and bought them out right and everyone seems pretty sure

⏹️ ▶️ that despite like the announcements today whatever that once the acquisition goes through

⏹️ ▶️ i mean this would be true even if there wasn’t a terrible culture at at activision

⏹️ ▶️ in general when a company buys you because you you know your stock price was slammed

⏹️ ▶️ and you’re doing realy poorly and someone swoops in and buys you they’re not going to keep the people who are running their company around

⏹️ ▶️ they’re going to replace them all with their people because you suck that’s why we bought you that’s why you know so that

⏹️ ▶️ was going to happen no matter what but then on top of that it’s like also these are all terrible people and the

⏹️ ▶️ reason their stock price tank was because these are all terrible people we found out about it i’m pretty sure they’re

⏹️ ▶️ going to clean house for multiple reasons here and hopefully get rid of most of the bad people

⏹️ ▶️ it’s difficult to do that though but everything i’ve heard microsoft’s culture is way way better

⏹️ ▶️ than activate mans lowbar right fact culture’s terrible microsoft’s culture is better so

⏹️ ▶️ i have some faith that they’re going to they’re going to clean house for reasons nothing to do with culture just

⏹️ ▶️ because that’s what that’s what you do when you when you gobble someone up you put your own people in charge but hopefully they will

⏹️ ▶️ find and root out all of the very worst people in addition

⏹️ ▶️ to putting all their good people in charge of things and that should hopefully help because

⏹️ ▶️ i feel like if they can make great games under these terrible conditions they can make

⏹️ ▶️ even better games under conditions that are less terrible

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iMessage vs. green bubbles

⏹️ ▶️ i have to move right along hey what’s up

⏹️ ▶️ with those green bubble i don’t know during your conversation with green bubbles work anymore i mean that was one of your long standing

⏹️ ▶️ complaints ah you know it’s funny you say that cause it just kind of got fixed

⏹️ ▶️ magically months and months and months ago and then just like in the last month

⏹️ ▶️ either er or i forget which one lost just a message or two and i almost was

⏹️ ▶️ in such a big rage that i flipped my entire home upside down and the only reason i didn’t was

⏹️ ▶️ because i was saving that moment for the l g five k which is still broken but nevertheless

⏹️ ▶️ now if you recall basically all of aaron’s family some of whom are still speaking

⏹️ ▶️ to us at this point are on android phones and it’s been

⏹️ ▶️ it’s been frustrating to say the least and i i have

⏹️ ▶️ been petitioning very strongly for them to buy iphones in part

⏹️ ▶️ because i am so annoyed by mms group chats but also because they

⏹️ ▶️ are constantly complain it’s you know the standard thing right where the people with the pcs and the android

⏹️ ▶️ phones need all this tech support and i have told all of them in no one certain terms

⏹️ ▶️ yet nope if you want to get help on that that’s not me cause i don’t run

⏹️ ▶️ pcs i don’t have android phones you can have to have somebody else and um and that’s mostly

⏹️ ▶️ worked okay but anyway i digress so yeah so if you live in the blessed

⏹️ ▶️ life where you don’t have to interact with the android people this

⏹️ ▶️ isn’t really a thing but for those of us who lived the cursed life of a mixed mixed

⏹️ ▶️ mixed os world it is annoying the green bubbles

⏹️ ▶️ but apparently if you believe the wall street journal the green bubbles are an evil lock in that apple

⏹️ ▶️ is sitting there mister burns style you know tinting their fingers and cackling all the way to the bank well i mean

⏹️ ▶️ there’s the cultural aspect of like a green bubble means you have a less expensive phone you’re

⏹️ ▶️ poor like whatever like the whole sort of class system of fancy iphones versus

⏹️ ▶️ non fancy green bubbles things which you can imagine teens certainly going in for because that’s what being a teenager

⏹️ ▶️ is all about whether it’s your reebok shoes or your t shirt with

⏹️ ▶️ the alligator on it i’m using bad references from the eighties but anyway we all we sound like mister

⏹️ ▶️ burns trying to describe like what the young people are doing this in the things that i did

⏹️ ▶️ from this i’m describing it as we would have described it in the eighties making

⏹️ ▶️ fun of older people who didn’t know what an yoder was anyway um that is definitely a thing but that

⏹️ ▶️ and that does affect the numbers you see of like how many teenagers have an iphone and how many teachers

⏹️ ▶️ want an iphone but it’s like oh how many teenagers want the expensive fancy thing like it’s good that apple

⏹️ ▶️ has that image because you want to be cool with the teens cause they eventually become adults and spend money

⏹️ ▶️ on things but that’s not really the issue the issue is what katy was talking about even though he was kind of

⏹️ ▶️ jokingly talking about the class stuff as well is that if you’re trying to have a conversation like

⏹️ ▶️ a group conversation using your phone bugs make that difficult

⏹️ ▶️ where some will reply and you won’t see their reply or half the people will see their reply you’ll say something they

⏹️ ▶️ won’t see what you said like the basic function of having a group conversation is impaired by

⏹️ ▶️ poor interoperability between imessage which is apple’s service for messaging and

⏹️ ▶️ sms which is the old cell phone messaging service back from before smartphones

⏹️ ▶️ even right and that’s that is that bad interoperability

⏹️ ▶️ is what makes the experience bad it leads people to do things like oh everything would work better if

⏹️ ▶️ everyone used the same messaging service and if it’s a majority of people have iphones

⏹️ ▶️ and there’s one or two people who don’t have iphones the solution is bad for those people they just get an iphone

⏹️ ▶️ so we can have a productive conversation where everybody sees everybody’s other messages and we don’t miss things

⏹️ ▶️ and things don’t get screwed up right and that is a real phenomenon and this is

⏹️ ▶️ you know started a broader conversation about r c s which is i put a link to a near summer is rich

⏹️ ▶️ communication service it’s like the successor to sms as in a cell phone

⏹️ ▶️ messaging service that has more features than a mass that is more modern that is not

⏹️ ▶️ sort of doesn’t have its origins in like side band analog cell radio

⏹️ ▶️ stuff that sms came from right um but importantly it’s still like a

⏹️ ▶️ cell phone type thing where your phone number is your identity and all that other stuff and lots of other companies have getting

⏹️ ▶️ on apple saying hey apple you should support our csp if you don’t you’re showing that you’re using our message

⏹️ ▶️ for lock in for your messaging service or whatever and there’s some

⏹️ ▶️ truth to that that like it would be good well sarah casey’s thing

⏹️ ▶️ it would be good if a sms and i message worked

⏹️ ▶️ better together as in you could have productive conversations and not mess your messages like i don’t see who would

⏹️ ▶️ disagree with that i don’t think apple is intentionally sabotaging i think it’s probably a hard problem but but

⏹️ ▶️ if you pretend to support it like casey can in theory

⏹️ ▶️ have a group conversation with android phones and iphones it should work right like it just

⏹️ ▶️ should otherwise why have the feature you know is is it supposed to work or is it just not supposed to work and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ like a decoy or something right then rcs is similar if r c s ever becomes

⏹️ ▶️ a thing and it becomes a feature that carriers and again mostly just talking

⏹️ ▶️ about the us here will get to all your other messaging things in a second and most carriers support our cs

⏹️ ▶️ apple should probably support it so that you can have a conversation maybe even a group conversation

⏹️ ▶️ with multiple people some of whom are using r c s and some of whom are using message just like you can have one today

⏹️ ▶️ with people who are using imessage and people using sms seems like a reasonable thing to do and by the way it should

⏹️ ▶️ work like all the time people should get all the messages i don’t think that’s particularly controversial but

⏹️ ▶️ i think what most people are mad about is the idea of like message platform

⏹️ ▶️ locking which is funny to me because i message has one of the

⏹️ ▶️ one of the weakest message platform locking and like what is it like

⏹️ ▶️ maria marco heard on on what instacart or was it dithering

⏹️ ▶️ poco three yeah talking about this i think i think a lot of people have

⏹️ ▶️ in talking about the larger conversation have hit on the real issue here which is what

⏹️ ▶️ messaging service is popular where you live and why in

⏹️ ▶️ the u s our message is very popular if you are going to if you see someone on a cell phone selling tech

⏹️ ▶️ messages the chances that are it’s especially using iphone chance that its eye messages are pretty darn high

⏹️ ▶️ elsewhere in the world different services have won i don’t remember the exact affiliations but i’ll try i think

⏹️ ▶️ japan is line is the most popular service um wechat is china right

⏹️ ▶️ a lot of europe is whatsapp i’m sure there are different ones in

⏹️ ▶️ other countries like and how did that come to be what is it what is it about these services

⏹️ ▶️ that make them you know so dominant in these different places and why is it different

⏹️ ▶️ wise and i chat popular across the whole world wise and what’s a popular across the whole world why these regional

⏹️ ▶️ ties right and i think what it highlights is how little

⏹️ ▶️ the messaging service itself has to do with what

⏹️ ▶️ everybody uses it’s just basic like who got critical mass first

⏹️ ▶️ and a lot of things in the computing world are like that like why is space book popular why was my

⏹️ ▶️ space popular why was a popular there’s lots of legit reasons like we’ll send out free cds and here’s this business lady

⏹️ ▶️ showing it’s great but the whole point is if you’re in the right place at the right time make make reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ enough moves you can get critical mass for things like this that have network effects where

⏹️ ▶️ you know facebook is only useful if your friends are also on facebook a messaging app like

⏹️ ▶️ aim is only useful if your friends are also on am and if you can get that critical mass

⏹️ ▶️ of everyone i know is on this thing it snowballs and it becomes very difficult

⏹️ ▶️ to go someplace else because you need a huge meteor or bolder explosion or something to kick

⏹️ ▶️ people off of one and put them on to another right it’s very hard to dislodge people from

⏹️ ▶️ if everybody is there so wise line in japan they got critical

⏹️ ▶️ mass first why’s what’s happened in these european countries because they got critical mass first and there are things like sms

⏹️ ▶️ used to cost money there and less money here and so and so forth the whole bunny’s whatever got critical mass

⏹️ ▶️ that inertia is very difficult to overcome and you need something big to knock it

⏹️ ▶️ out but it also means is there’s nothing specifically about line

⏹️ ▶️ versus whatsapp that makes one better than the other in terms of a messaging service maybe

⏹️ ▶️ these better cultural fits in terms of how they market themselves and of course their economic ones of what was free versus

⏹️ ▶️ what charged money and how much the carriers charge feelings and soon is over but not the specific service

⏹️ ▶️ right and related to that just before we came on the air i read a small article

⏹️ ▶️ on macworld that talks about one point that i was going to make in the show is that our message is crappy

⏹️ ▶️ we all know this right it’s not a good messaging service we already pointed

⏹️ ▶️ out how it doesn’t interoperate with a mass it has very few features compared to other services

⏹️ ▶️ even just within our message there can be weird bugs and stuff and doesn’t change much every year our

⏹️ ▶️ message doesn’t get that much better i mean they tried to do the eye message app store and that didn’t really go anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ but lots of things that are and my message have been the same as they happen for ages the search is still bad

⏹️ ▶️ the way they do replies is still weird jason pointed out like the tap back feature

⏹️ ▶️ where you can put different reactions it’s been the same like five or six reactions for the entire life of that feature it’s

⏹️ ▶️ it’s not a product that they’re iterating on and making better and better all the time so if if you

⏹️ ▶️ could say okay everybody’s kicked off all their messaging services none of your friends or any messaging service

⏹️ ▶️ let’s start from a level playing for field let’s all decide what messaging service we should get on by the way

⏹️ ▶️ we erase your memory so you don’t remember message so you can’t do without a habit and you look at the messaging services based on

⏹️ ▶️ who has the nicest happ who has the most features like all that other stuff and prices most taken out

⏹️ ▶️ it because these are all these days internet powered things i don’t think my message would do as well

⏹️ ▶️ as it does it was a that messaging app on iphones and iphone became popular and that’s why message is popular but not because

⏹️ ▶️ it’s a good message service it’s terrible and so this whole

⏹️ ▶️ conversation about like oh i message is giving you lock and everything with network effects give

⏹️ ▶️ you lock in and it’s always it always feels terrible it’s like why is everybody doing x one why is better than x it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ well it’s too late everybody’s doing x and it’s a social thing and so unless you have some way to get everybody off

⏹️ ▶️ of x and on to y like say x goes out of business or

⏹️ ▶️ you know x is overwhelmed with spam or it’s very different i’m trying

⏹️ ▶️ to think like it’s like conversation is man what would get people off facebook what would get people off of

⏹️ ▶️ their messages and service of choice if everyone you know is on what tap what gets you off of what sap what

⏹️ ▶️ gets you and everyone you know off of what ap it’s very difficult you know we haven’t been

⏹️ ▶️ able to get everybody off of facebook and i don’t think you’re going to get everybody who’s one message off y message that’s why i feel

⏹️ ▶️ it’s imperative that if you’re going to do cross protocol support that you make it actually work and if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ not going to do cross protocol support then just don’t do it at all and let your message let you know

⏹️ ▶️ make your own little bubbles in the world so all this i

⏹️ ▶️ say is that i guess apple should probably implement arcs but it’s not going to really help anything oh and by

⏹️ ▶️ the way r c s is you know because it’s a carrier thing it’s kind of swaying against the tide where a

⏹️ ▶️ modern messaging service say we’ll use the internet communicate which is a great idea because the internet is

⏹️ ▶️ cool but having your identity be your phone number that’s really crappy that’s i mean

⏹️ ▶️ apple another speaking of half hour than apple did a can i send sms

⏹️ ▶️ for my mac yeah kind of through your phone because you need a phone number

⏹️ ▶️ we can i have a conversation with blue and green bubbles on my mac sort of with

⏹️ ▶️ a little help from your phone or a relay that converts that asi like if

⏹️ ▶️ you use the internet anything connect to the internet can do it if you use your phone number there has to be a cell

⏹️ ▶️ phone or a phone number somewhere involved and in that respect to r c s is sort of a retrograde

⏹️ ▶️ type of service where it’s not forward looking like forward looking services are internet based and

⏹️ ▶️ so although we’ll probably have to support our c s because it’s better than sms and it’s not as technically

⏹️ ▶️ backwards if you’re looking for a new service for the entire world to communicate with each other on our

⏹️ ▶️ c s is not it it’s got to be something on the internet i don’t know i don’t see apple

⏹️ ▶️ being willing to implement rss unless they can explain

⏹️ ▶️ or explain away the lack of encryption because my limited understanding of arcs i might

⏹️ ▶️ have this wrong is i think google layered on like a superset or something

⏹️ ▶️ of rss or their own like custom like apple does with blue tooth and has their own custom stuff riding

⏹️ ▶️ on top of like traditional blue teeth i guess google i think had put their own custom stuff on top of orcs

⏹️ ▶️ so they could get and unencrypted messages and and i don’t see apple

⏹️ ▶️ being able to or perhaps willing to implement our ss unless they have

⏹️ ▶️ a good privacy story because otherwise it’s like well why are you banging this privacy

⏹️ ▶️ drum over there but then you totally throw it out the window over here and with with sms

⏹️ ▶️ and mamas i mean it’s like table stakes at least here in america that you have to support

⏹️ ▶️ those things otherwise you basically don’t have a functioning cellular phone but i know it’s different

⏹️ ▶️ the rest of the world but for here you have to have it but you know to add something that is

⏹️ ▶️ i was going to say inherently dangerous but that’s that’s a bit overblown that is certainly

⏹️ ▶️ less secure than than apple would like it seems it seems like it would be disingenuous for them

⏹️ ▶️ to do that well sms already doesn’t have any security so this would be just replacement for smes like i don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ apple is raring to go in this i think if other people undermine cs and it becomes an issue where it’s like hey

⏹️ ▶️ everyone else is doing it apple then apple should do it too but i don’t think all has to lead here or anything like you mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ sms like the reason you have to have it to have a functioning cell phone is just to give one example is the current current

⏹️ ▶️ use of sms for two factor which itself has its own problems but it is still a common practice and the whole

⏹️ ▶️ point of that being a second factor is that it’s a phone number right and we sent through

⏹️ ▶️ sms because that is sort of the you know the base level lowest common denominator

⏹️ ▶️ thing that cellphones can understand could people send two factors us rss

⏹️ ▶️ they could but you have to get to a point where there is a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ chance that that’s going to work i don’t think there are probably any

⏹️ ▶️ cell phones that people are still using that can’t do s m s but

⏹️ ▶️ s is nowhere right so i don’t think that’s true i think it’s i think it’s implemented in lots of

⏹️ ▶️ places isn’t it maybe i have this all wrong but i could swear that it’s been implemented

⏹️ ▶️ certainly on a lot of carriers and i thought like android has had it for many more years than

⏹️ ▶️ i had thought i thought it was just coming out now and i think it’s been there for like four or five years the standard is certainly very

⏹️ ▶️ old but i think everybody still sends two factor self using plano sms and not just because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ guaranteed to be at the minimum the billions of iphones in the world can’t get it and so if you

⏹️ ▶️ send it by rcs and someone has an iphone they can’t log into your two factor thing that seems like

⏹️ ▶️ a big deal like that’s why they’re going to you know so anyway rest replace it just because

⏹️ ▶️ sam is an ancient old standard and eventually is on to go away and ours on replace the thing apple has to do it

⏹️ ▶️ because it’s the lowest counted on same reason apple well not the same reason i do because messages know it

⏹️ ▶️ exist but like the same reason apple continues support support s s not because apple loves sms is because if they took

⏹️ ▶️ it away their phone becomes significantly less functional for the users if r c s ever gets to that point

⏹️ ▶️ then apple will have to do it and that’s i feel like that’s what i’m saying apple should do it probably

⏹️ ▶️ before it becomes a problem but only just before it becomes a problem for them i’m not

⏹️ ▶️ sure it’s a problem right now i don’t i’ve certainly never encountered some something in my

⏹️ ▶️ life where my phone’s lack of arcs support has been a problem

⏹️ ▶️ but they should eventually implement it if like don’t wait for it to be a problem then mandated

⏹️ ▶️ anticipated by a little bit and then implemented and who knows i hold out hope that rcs

⏹️ ▶️ being a more modern protocol apple and implementing in a more modern time

⏹️ ▶️ maybe with a more modern language even there is a higher chance that it will the interoperability between

⏹️ ▶️ message and i s will work better than the interoperability between sms and imessage and hey

⏹️ ▶️ that’s great for apple they just never have to fix those books they can just let it sail off into the sunset

⏹️ ▶️ and replace it with the new better actually functional rcs and message

⏹️ ▶️ interrupt bility if i may again take us on a small tangent something that

⏹️ ▶️ really drives me nuts about my group chats with you know one or more android people is

⏹️ ▶️ and i’m sure many americans have experienced this if i’m in a group chat like

⏹️ ▶️ for example aaron and me and my brother in law who is an android user and my sister

⏹️ ▶️ in law who also has an iphone because of my brother in law whom i love dearly the entire damn chat

⏹️ ▶️ is all green bubbles because that one android phone makes sense and

⏹️ ▶️ if i were to slip up or let’s say if aaron were to slip up and do

⏹️ ▶️ a tap back on one of these messages which i would argue maybe shouldn’t even be allowed

⏹️ ▶️ in the first place but let’s leave that aside for a second what i will receive is earn less

⏹️ ▶️ liked and then like a quotation of the message that she gave this up to which

⏹️ ▶️ okay fine i understand that you know when when aaron’s phone is trying to

⏹️ ▶️ verbalize her lack of better word or transmit her action to an android phone

⏹️ ▶️ the best i can do is say earn less liked and then repeat the message sure totally makes sense

⏹️ ▶️ but on my phone i have an iphone

⏹️ ▶️ why is apple not parsing eron less liked and in the exact message

⏹️ ▶️ that she liked why is it not wise messages not parsing this and throwing a thumbs

⏹️ ▶️ up on the message that she liked do you understand what i’m saying like i mean you don’t want it to be parsing what

⏹️ ▶️ you want the what you want is sort of a dual rights thing where the your phone sends the message

⏹️ ▶️ to the message people and the sms the sms people so you’re doing everything sort of like the native way

⏹️ ▶️ you wouldn’t want to sure and i’m sure there would be no problems there john with no one source of truth but what

⏹️ ▶️ but what i’m saying it’s like the the other way you’re describing is if an sms comes in and the string

⏹️ ▶️ is exactly one of these five strings interpreted as a tap back on the previous thing and that

⏹️ ▶️ is not a great way to go about things because especially with localization

⏹️ ▶️ and other stuff like it’s weird you know like you don’t want you don’t want a sort of like

⏹️ ▶️ send a text interpret text that goes through sms certain

⏹️ ▶️ texts being special triggering commands to run probably hell you want to even if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ as simple as like we want to see that all interpret it as a thumb and display it that way not that sms and message

⏹️ ▶️ aren’t cracked ten different ways all the time anyway but i probably wouldn’t choose to do that but the way they do

⏹️ ▶️ it you can see it making sense it’s like and look how we interoperate oh it’s easy we’ll just convert everything to

⏹️ ▶️ text and they just didn’t go the extra mile to say but you know can we make it better for

⏹️ ▶️ the i message users and i guess the conspiracy theories like see they made it look annoying so the green bubble people

⏹️ ▶️ would be shunned into getting an iphone but so that’s that’s the thing right is that i totally

⏹️ ▶️ understand that aaron’s phone when she likes the message you know sounds

⏹️ ▶️ good i totally understand that her phone emits arliss liked sounds good but

⏹️ ▶️ where i start to be the conspiracy conspiracy theorist with like the red yarn all over the bulletin board

⏹️ ▶️ is when my phone doesn’t take that and turn it into

⏹️ ▶️ a thumb stop and i understand what you guys are saying but i feel like there’s got to be a way to make a way to make

⏹️ ▶️ the somewhat reliable or you know what even if somebody literally typed the message you know

⏹️ ▶️ casey is like such and such and like if there was an errant thumb like is that really the

⏹️ ▶️ end of the earth there was errant thumb attributed to you because the client would then

⏹️ ▶️ interpret it as you liking the thing you need a little sure but perhaps perhaps it would only

⏹️ ▶️ do that if i’m like if i typed out casey liss liked sounds good i know i mean anyway i mean

⏹️ ▶️ so there’s there’s two angles on the product design one is doing it as text for everybody

⏹️ ▶️ through uniform experience sort of adhering to a you know a principle that you may have for the i that

⏹️ ▶️ everyone involved in group conversation sees the same thing right and so you may not like that and it’s like well why do we

⏹️ ▶️ have to get dumbed down and gets back to that whole argument but at least it’s a consistent experience and theory i mean

⏹️ ▶️ minus the bugs that we’re talking about the whole point is we don’t get a consistent experience but you can see the argument

⏹️ ▶️ for the sort of simplicity of just saying look everybody in the group cat sees the same thing we’re not giving special

⏹️ ▶️ treatment to the apple ones where they know how to do the tap backs and the other ones don’t just so we’re all looking at

⏹️ ▶️ the same stuff yet but i could swear that i read recently and i’m not going to be able to take up an article

⏹️ ▶️ to justify or verify this but i swear that google is doing what i describe oh yeah no i’m saying

⏹️ ▶️ like i it could i’m from a product design perspective you could make the decision that everyone should see the same thing

⏹️ ▶️ even if only just so you so you know what they’re seeing right so because

⏹️ ▶️ otherwise how do you how do you know what other people seeing on their screen if it looks good to you maybe you don’t realize

⏹️ ▶️ that it looks weird to them whereas just doing it as text everywhere shows looks good to everybody so there is an argument to be

⏹️ ▶️ made for this sort of consistency even though it’s lesser quality but the other thing is that it’s not a conspiracy theory

⏹️ ▶️ it’s just like if apple’s going to prioritize features they’re not going to prioritize making

⏹️ ▶️ really really good integration with s just because they would prefer everyone to use our message

⏹️ ▶️ so why we you know it’s not it’s not like you know the mustache twisting

⏹️ ▶️ it’s part of our dastardly plan is just plain old prioritization it’s like what do we care more about

⏹️ ▶️ like new feature x or making sms and imessage work together better

⏹️ ▶️ and clearly they don’t care that much about missing sms message work work together

⏹️ ▶️ even just basic functionality in terms of the messages go through and people see them like that has

⏹️ ▶️ been a struggle this is way down on the list like it’s just prioritization sort of venality

⏹️ ▶️ if it’s it’s not even venality of evil it’s not actually evil it’s just like look we have to have priorities

⏹️ ▶️ and this is a pretty low one because apple solution would be just as my message it comes with your phone

⏹️ ▶️ all but my friends don’t have a message they should they should buy phones but if they don’t we try to

⏹️ ▶️ interoperate too and we do the best we can but like it’s not going to be a high priority like

⏹️ ▶️ apple’s not going to you know win people over by making them

⏹️ ▶️ that a integration better and that sounds evil to people it’s like see their intentionally making it bad but i feel

⏹️ ▶️ like there is a nuanced distinction between choosing your priorities based on what’s important to the

⏹️ ▶️ company versus an evil plan to punish bad people with green bubbles

⏹️ ▶️ and even though they seem like they’re the same thing i feel like it’s it’s important to understand

⏹️ ▶️ the distinction that right even if there are like two or three people who are twisting their moustaches

⏹️ ▶️ or rubbing their hands together saying this will really teach those android users i

⏹️ ▶️ don’t think it’s like corporate policy to do that if you look at the leaked emails and everything i

⏹️ ▶️ i think it was a q was pushing for our message to be on all platforms and other people said why would we do that

⏹️ ▶️ it’s a great platform locking people use phones because they all have my message and if we let them if we let our

⏹️ ▶️ message be everywhere that removes a differentiator and people think that’s evil that’s what everybody does

⏹️ ▶️ in business it’s like why would we put halo on the playstation people buy an x box because it has halo why would

⏹️ ▶️ we put it everywhere it’s like see you’re trying to lock people into the xbox like yeah yeah we’re

⏹️ ▶️ trying to make the box be a best selling got like that’s business and it’s not a life

⏹️ ▶️ or death thing and it’s not like i don’t think that’s particularly evil and even then the argument

⏹️ ▶️ was had with some high big executives like eddy arguing it’s like that’s all well and good but we

⏹️ ▶️ should make y message be everywhere right because it would be make us more successful like bringing the ipod

⏹️ ▶️ to windows right that’s always the pushing pull especially in computer markets or whatever was like

⏹️ ▶️ should we try to be the standard for everything or should we try to be a really

⏹️ ▶️ cool feature that makes you buy our product instead of theirs and it’s not always easy to know when you should cross over

⏹️ ▶️ that bridge like in hindsight it’s easy like sale can you believe that i didn’t want to put the eye pot on windows how dumb would have that

⏹️ ▶️ been yet it’s easy in hindsight but other decisions have gone the other way and have also worked

⏹️ ▶️ out so you know i’m not sure where i message is at this point as i think

⏹️ ▶️ they were saying and dithering it may be too late to put my message everywhere speaking that is

⏹️ ▶️ like all ape can solve his problem by us putting a eye message on every single platform who the hell will want my message if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ using something that has better features which is basically anything that’s y message like line whatsapp

⏹️ ▶️ ah probably we chat all those things are better chat clients than i message they have

⏹️ ▶️ more features they’re more useful they’re you know and maybe some of them are also crappy in ways that apple

⏹️ ▶️ wouldn’t like in terms of being festooned with ads or spam or whatever but in terms of feature set it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ even close what what i think about is slack slack is so much better sending textual messages

⏹️ ▶️ back and forth to people and having conversations and threads and reactions inline previews

⏹️ ▶️ and all things you do that’s a freaking web view and it’s so much better than my message it’s

⏹️ ▶️ not even funny i would use slack as my instant messaging app if that was an option but

⏹️ ▶️ of course to do that i would have to you know send the giant asteroid that would knock everybody

⏹️ ▶️ i know off of my message and on to some hypothetical i message replacement that has the same

⏹️ ▶️ features a as slack right um oh and i guess the other factor that we need to

⏹️ ▶️ throw in here is who owns the thing a a private company owning something

⏹️ ▶️ like facebook owning what’s app may be a factor in some people’s decisions and

⏹️ ▶️ certainly is in mine not enough to you know change who goes where because network effects you know

⏹️ ▶️ don’t care about that but i would prefer not to switch from my message to a system

⏹️ ▶️ owned by a company that i trust less than apple that doesn’t mean that’s what’s keeping people on

⏹️ ▶️ my message at all but me personally i don’t like the idea of switching to a better more full featured

⏹️ ▶️ chat client that happens to be on my face book so i really hope that doesn’t happen i almost wonder

⏹️ ▶️ like how much any of this like piano giving people new options at this point i wonder how

⏹️ ▶️ much that even matters because it seems like most people

⏹️ ▶️ don’t vow you know like you were just you were saying john like how it would be pretty much impossible to try to move

⏹️ ▶️ everyone off of what they’re using now and i think the reason why is that most people i think have worked

⏹️ ▶️ out their messaging platform around the time that they got their first smartphone

⏹️ ▶️ and all their friends got smart phones and they all message each other on something

⏹️ ▶️ and i think most of the world that

⏹️ ▶️ can have a phone at all now has a smart phone and has a messaging platform

⏹️ ▶️ and i think it’s one of the things like you know as you were saying you know three hours ago

⏹️ ▶️ it’s not that these platforms are competing on features or anything they’re mostly just like why do

⏹️ ▶️ people use the ones that use well because their friends use it and that’s how they talk to their friends and then it’s just of kind

⏹️ ▶️ of you know certain groups fall into place with certain platforms and i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ think we’re ever going to change that i like i don’t think first of all i’m surprised r c s is even still being talked

⏹️ ▶️ about because it was it had so many shortcomings when it was first floated however many years ago that

⏹️ ▶️ was but like no one’s looking for text messaging

⏹️ ▶️ to get better without it being a totally different thing you know like no one’s looking for

⏹️ ▶️ rcs like that solves no problems people actually have um

⏹️ ▶️ and i message is great for the people who use it the people who currently don’t use our

⏹️ ▶️ message will probably never use my message and i think you could say that about almost all the platforms like

⏹️ ▶️ whatever you use like your messaging needs if you have a smart phone your messaging needs

⏹️ ▶️ are probably pretty well settled and you’re probably not looking to change and so i

⏹️ ▶️ almost wonder how much any of this you know discussion even like if apple belongs

⏹️ ▶️ to imessage on android tomorrow like would it would people actually even install it would people use it

⏹️ ▶️ probably not people probably keep doing what they’re doing already well it has a chance in the u s just because

⏹️ ▶️ so many people in the u s still use sms right and sms is so dire and

⏹️ ▶️ so terrible and so old that i think you could get some people if they put out imessage

⏹️ ▶️ android i think you get a lot of android people off of sms and on y message

⏹️ ▶️ because in this country we don’t have you know a huge majority of people on whatsapp or wechat

⏹️ ▶️ or line or anything like that um the other thing i mean there’s two other things that can move people like

⏹️ ▶️ obviously the big asteroid coming you know one version of the big asteroid is hey the company

⏹️ ▶️ that runs line yet they went out of business i guess what that’ll get everybody off line that’s

⏹️ ▶️ the problem with these like oh i’m on a messaging platform i’m never going to move you’ll move if the company goes out of business

⏹️ ▶️ and doesn’t get bought like or you’ll move if that company turns into like a you know a block chain thing

⏹️ ▶️ and like start spamming you with n f t crap and just becomes the giant scam thing right

⏹️ ▶️ or it becomes festoon with ads or or someone buys it and drives it into the ground that’s the difficulty of

⏹️ ▶️ having network effect base platforms owned by individual companies because individual companies can

⏹️ ▶️ screw up and can they can go out of business or be bought by somebody worse and do terrible things and just mess up

⏹️ ▶️ arguably that’s kind of what happened to myspace versus facebook right we keep hoping the face

⏹️ ▶️ was going to screw up and wither away and die but they keep staying alive and getting more money so it’s difficult to kill them

⏹️ ▶️ but that’s one way you can get rid of things and the second way is people like i

⏹️ ▶️ said they’re just never going to change their platforms yet but they die and if young people are using a different platform

⏹️ ▶️ wow right if you if young people are using a different platform like oh young people all message

⏹️ ▶️ each other on snapchat and snapchat becomes the dominant platform of the next fifty years because those

⏹️ ▶️ young people started using snapchat when they were nine and just never stopped right because that’s what them

⏹️ ▶️ and all their friends were on that type of but that’s not an asteroid that’s more of a slow roll over that can also happen

⏹️ ▶️ for just a generational thing one thing is seen is cooler than something else old people use x young

⏹️ ▶️ people use and and the old people never change and the young people never change and you wake up fifty years later and all the old people

⏹️ ▶️ are dead and everybody’s using snapchat for messaging but that that presupposes that snapchat’s going

⏹️ ▶️ to stay in business and not screw up their their their application and everything right this is the danger

⏹️ ▶️ of having something as important as ubiquitous you know

⏹️ ▶️ instant message type text messaging being owned by individual private companies

⏹️ ▶️ if there was an individual private company that owned email we would be on email seven by now like whatever the seventh

⏹️ ▶️ ration of email is not that in male is great you know no encryption spam is a problem blah blah blah

⏹️ ▶️ because it wasn’t owned by any single company it’s very difficult to kill

⏹️ ▶️ companies come and go companies screw up they they you know they

⏹️ ▶️ fill their products with ads and spam and malware and do all sorts of terrible things

⏹️ ▶️ but email survives because no matter what any individual company does email as a standard

⏹️ ▶️ has network effect is one of the original network effects of the internet right everybody’s

⏹️ ▶️ got it ah it’s difficult for any single company to replace it all lots of people tried really

⏹️ ▶️ really hard and they didn’t pull it off and no matter how many companies go out of business email

⏹️ ▶️ stays that’s not true of instant messaging so we’re kind of in the early stages of that in fifty

⏹️ ▶️ years of all the companies i miss i described how many will still be in business how would have

⏹️ ▶️ been bought by other companies it’s like whatsapp facebook buys line and says line is eventually

⏹️ ▶️ gone and now it’s folded into what’s happened by the way what sap is gone it’s folded into facebook messenger like

⏹️ ▶️ that’s those are things that can happen it’s the danger of having

⏹️ ▶️ private companies that may not live that long i and may not do what you want controlling such

⏹️ ▶️ an important thing so that’s the one thing that rcs has going for it is that at least it’s like a cross

⏹️ ▶️ company standard i mean granted their cellphone carriers are not the best companies and granted it’s a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ standard and it’s crappy and old and doesn’t have the features you want and so on and so forth but that’s one of the advantages

⏹️ ▶️ that sms has is there’s no company that can go out of business that makes sms

⏹️ ▶️ not work right it’s kind of baked in it’s old it’s ancient it’s crappy but it’s not owned

⏹️ ▶️ by any one single company rcs has that advantage and the you know they’ve got the advantage for

⏹️ ▶️ me personally not for regular people because they don’t care but for me personally i like the fact that apple runs my message because

⏹️ ▶️ i trust apple more than say facebook or whoever owns wechat any company

⏹️ ▶️ based in china i probably don’t want them to run the messaging service of the whole world uses it so

⏹️ ▶️ i think this is still a problem area and it is difficult to move

⏹️ ▶️ people on mass from one thing to the other but change can happen through people dying and change can

⏹️ ▶️ happen through companies dying and i guess that’s what we have to root for now people dying can happen whether you’re for it

⏹️ ▶️ or not i guess oh my gosh when they’re really old long natural do we call it not

⏹️ ▶️ an unnatural death but a natural one oh dear god when you’re old and no one cares about you anymore

⏹️ ▶️ usually i’m the one who puts not only my foot but my ankle and my thigh and my mouth but today that role

⏹️ ▶️ is being played by john syracuse have you ever thought about the phrase that died of natural causes it’s

⏹️ ▶️ like a natural childbirth the same thing no it’s not the same thing at all i mean

⏹️ ▶️ it’s it’s kind of the same thing i mean whatever i don’t feel like arguing about that either i see i it put

⏹️ ▶️ my phone in my mouth it’s happening again anyway i don’t know the other thing just to get ahead

⏹️ ▶️ of the feedback emails that have already come in i’m quite sure every time we talk about messaging platforms

⏹️ ▶️ particularly americans all the like smug europeans and and people from you know

⏹️ ▶️ like the asian countries are always like well just just tell everyone to change

⏹️ ▶️ yes okay sure i’m going to tell the seven hundred contacts in

⏹️ ▶️ my phone book you know what the king has decided that i am going to use weechat now so if you

⏹️ ▶️ would like to talk to me come talk to me on wechat yet that’s totally going to work related when’s the last

⏹️ ▶️ time you loaded the glass app on your iphone i rest my case does anyone actually say that just over

⏹️ ▶️ one a change i haven’t seen that yet it happened in the chain here today today to get it but yeah it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ of like people saying we can stop traffic jams for everyone just to go at once it seriously

⏹️ ▶️ it’s so preposterous like yes maybe like my core twenty or

⏹️ ▶️ thirty people maybe i could get half of them to change to my preferred messaging service but the

⏹️ ▶️ likelihood of that if you even almost walk them all brand new iphones you probably still couldn’t get a hundred

⏹️ ▶️ percent conversion if you want them and paid for their cell phone plan for their life you probably still can get a hundred

⏹️ ▶️ percent conversion yep cause people just like what they’re used to right and they don’t why would they don’t want change

⏹️ ▶️ like why am i changing why don’t you change free don’t you get an android phone how about that

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⏹️ ▶️ our show

#askatp: Next-gen OS foundation?

⏹️ ▶️ let’s do some ast p and i have been

⏹️ ▶️ excited to hear john talk about this and that that’s no sarcasm i really mean it daniel burkart writes

⏹️ ▶️ macos is over to two decades old now but its foundation is still roughly the same

⏹️ ▶️ and also the foundation of apple’s entire o suite would you say that this will continue to be true for the

⏹️ ▶️ next two decades or should we assume that a team with an apple is cranking away on exploring a completely

⏹️ ▶️ new os approach designed from the ground up to even better suit apple’s multi fasted future

⏹️ ▶️ should we expect another large transition within the next twenty years because of this maybe impacting apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ full range of products and if so what is your advice for apple as well as your hopes and

⏹️ ▶️ dreams for this new approach and to get ahead of you john the very first thing i thought of when i read

⏹️ ▶️ this as a t p which was very good was avoiding copeland twenty two twenty ten excuse me which i will

⏹️ ▶️ put in the show you should probably but the revisited article because it explains that it has all the links back cause

⏹️ ▶️ otherwise you have to link to all three of them and it’s confusing so maybe just the the revisit

⏹️ ▶️ sorry dad yeah we’ve done these links to her anyway um so for making a completely new

⏹️ ▶️ os the rumors are that’s one of the things that apple was doing for the car project because as you

⏹️ ▶️ can imagine an operating system suitable for helping a car to drive is

⏹️ ▶️ has different requirements than one that runs your cell phone or whatever and

⏹️ ▶️ you know it’s a clean sheet type thing apple doesn’t have an existing car they don’t have an existing car software base

⏹️ ▶️ so they could start from scratch and use more modern technology better suited to being a car

⏹️ ▶️ but who knows where any of that is going that aside

⏹️ ▶️ the good thing about what apple did with macos ten is they sort of

⏹️ ▶️ built their operating system the core thing with with the

⏹️ ▶️ posix unix style layer to it and

⏹️ ▶️ that really helps for the future if if there’s some deficit of the microkernel

⏹️ ▶️ the mock microkernel and the b s d system that’s used to it and all all sort of low level parts

⏹️ ▶️ of apple’s operating system if it turns out that there’s some limiting factor for some huge future application

⏹️ ▶️ whether it be vr or self driving cars or something like that apple can

⏹️ ▶️ really re plumb the guts in very interesting ways while still

⏹️ ▶️ maintaining that sort of posix compliant layer on top of it because that’s something that the software

⏹️ ▶️ industry has done many times over putting posix layers on operating systems that are not themselves like

⏹️ ▶️ natively unix pod systems windows and t did it back in the day microsoft does it with with windows

⏹️ ▶️ like it it is a common thing arguably apples kind of doing it with with the bsd

⏹️ ▶️ colonel fuse to mock and everything and yes there are all sorts of stuff in macos ten that use the mock

⏹️ ▶️ ports and all sorts of mock i p c features that are specific to mock but you can also i’m saying m

⏹️ ▶️ a c h you can also mock those mock you can mock versions of

⏹️ ▶️ mock what i’m saying is that that it’s a layer cake and so oh my god you have the

⏹️ ▶️ because apple got rid of the main deficits which was hey no memory protection

⏹️ ▶️ no preemptive multitasking all the cup and twenty ten stuff right because they address

⏹️ ▶️ those and have a solid foundation they can rip out the gut guts

⏹️ ▶️ and put better more interesting guts in there while still maintaining lots of compatibility

⏹️ ▶️ with the higher layers because that layer that sort of posix unix layer is very

⏹️ ▶️ common across the entire world of operating system that has proved very durable and useful

⏹️ ▶️ there’s no there’s no underlying design that really negates

⏹️ ▶️ that interface and let’s not say that could be the ony thing you could have som sort of real time operating system to use in the car and

⏹️ ▶️ it has advanced features but you can implement the sort of old fuddy duddy posix apis on top of that

⏹️ ▶️ and give them a road going forward that said so far everything

⏹️ ▶️ that apple has made has shown that the guts of next step flashback wes

⏹️ ▶️ ten is surprisingly flexible they put it on a watch they didn’t just

⏹️ ▶️ put it in a phone or if they put it in a wrist watch so i’m not sure what flexibility

⏹️ ▶️ or new features you need from the r o s that they’re not getting the they put it on the giant mac

⏹️ ▶️ pro all the way down to a wristwatch and it’s done really well in all those different applications

⏹️ ▶️ it just goes to show that the cross is not the limiting factor in those things so i don’t think there’s

⏹️ ▶️ any specific thing that apple needs for any of the platforms that are currently planned as

⏹️ ▶️ setting aside the car so a r v r future gaming console

⏹️ ▶️ any kind of computing device from a wrist watch all the way up to a big personal computer

⏹️ ▶️ i think their cause is a in reasonable good place and it’s not like it hasn’t changed it is improved in everything

⏹️ ▶️ but i think i think that’s doing mostly ok they can redo repu the kernel

⏹️ ▶️ to try to fix some long standing architectural problems and they can do it in a way that we probably don’t notice the car is the one

⏹️ ▶️ where they might eat a new approach and rumors that’s what they were doing for the car which is let’s not

⏹️ ▶️ build is on top of the macos ten foundation because it’s kind of old man creaky

⏹️ ▶️ in terms of the way we need a car has to handle like the reliability concerns of a multi thousand

⏹️ ▶️ pound piece of metal are different than the reliability concerns of your cell phone they just are

⏹️ ▶️ so let’s get something that’s more reliable and we’re not going to get to that reliability by starting with this giant code base

⏹️ ▶️ and trying to make it more reliable and plus we need real time features because you kind of need to decide now now now whether

⏹️ ▶️ you should turn and their their operating systems designed for that right there their real time

⏹️ ▶️ operating systems using spacecraft and airplanes and all social stuff and apple being apple of course

⏹️ ▶️ they would try to make their own right because they’re they’re a lot of smart people which fine but that project

⏹️ ▶️ doesn’t come out yet so that is the only place where i think a new o s approach is

⏹️ ▶️ if not necessary then reasonably appropriate every other application apple has applied

⏹️ ▶️ the darwin core of macos ten macos whatever

⏹️ ▶️ to it has succeeded and gone great again i will i

⏹️ ▶️ will cite the wristwatch if you can get thrown a wristwatch and a giant mac pro it’s

⏹️ ▶️ probably doing okay so i wouldn’t worry about it too much i’m surprised by this i was expecting a

⏹️ ▶️ lot more thanks from you i’m not saying this is bad i’m just i’m surprised

⏹️ ▶️ there were rumors in that same blog read the complete thing couple twenty ten thing was like the l

⏹️ ▶️ four michael colonel was being investigated like the really really core of the os like there’s lots of interesting

⏹️ ▶️ projects of how you could make something more reliable or faster better in situations

⏹️ ▶️ of high contention but you can do that without disturbing the higher layers and

⏹️ ▶️ it turns out they haven’t they haven’t needed to do that yet so it makes me think that there’s not a particular crisis

⏹️ ▶️ loving here maybe i need the younger version of me to write like avoiding copeland

⏹️ ▶️ twenty fifty seven right now i think with the exception of the car project they’re

⏹️ ▶️ in a reasonably good position

#askatp: Which game console?

⏹️ ▶️ patrick writes i haven’t owned or played a gaming system in over ten years recently i played some halo with

⏹️ ▶️ a friend it was a lot of fun and i’m thinking about getting a modern system the problem however is that i don’t know which one to

⏹️ ▶️ get i don’t want to buy multiple platforms since i’m not a hardcore gamer the switch p s five and x box all have a game or

⏹️ ▶️ two that look really appealing do you have any advice on helping me choose a platform without

⏹️ ▶️ knowing exactly which games look appealing to patrick on each platform i

⏹️ ▶️ would just say go with the one that’s going to give you the most fun you know if if you’re not a hardcore

⏹️ ▶️ gamer that means that getting the latest and greatest graphics on like the p s five

⏹️ ▶️ and you know xbox whatever it is it is a lower priority what you’re optimizing

⏹️ ▶️ for is fun and i think for most people the odds are

⏹️ ▶️ you’d have the most fun with the switch out of those um it’s also right now much

⏹️ ▶️ easier to get so that that helps and it benefits

⏹️ ▶️ from a pretty large software library since it’s you know been out a few years now

⏹️ ▶️ compared to the p s five and xbox whatever we are both much newer and so i would say unless

⏹️ ▶️ there is a unless like there’s like i really must have game or games calling you over to

⏹️ ▶️ the p s five or x box go with the switch cause you’re more likely to find a lot of fun there

⏹️ ▶️ and it’s just easier to approach being you know less expensive easier to get larger game

⏹️ ▶️ library already in place and it has the benefit of being portable if you ever actually need that which

⏹️ ▶️ you might not think you you would use but you might end up using it i don’t think this is a larger

⏹️ ▶️ game i riggs you forget the playstation plays playstation four games and the x box plays the older xbox

⏹️ ▶️ games as well so there’s a big catalogue of those but the not a hardcore gamer

⏹️ ▶️ is the is the big twist here because it makes people think like what you just said okay well then you don’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ all these you know why get a super expensive super powerful counsel you don’t care you’re not a hardcore gamer but if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ not a hardcore gamer that also means the people who who say that probably

⏹️ ▶️ don’t have a lot of experience especially with modern video games so you don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ if that person is the type of person who is going to love world of warcraft

⏹️ ▶️ and should therefore get a gaming pc right because they they’ve never had contact with it they don’t have they don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ any immunities built up they don’t have the anti bodies like you don’t know what thing is going to be their thing it could

⏹️ ▶️ be that it turns out to their super into real time strategy games or they get obsessed with puzzle

⏹️ ▶️ games or they’re really really into you know final fantasy like you just don’t know because they

⏹️ ▶️ haven’t been exposed to them so they can’t give you an opinion i like this type of game or that type of game and so guessing like

⏹️ ▶️ oh you should like nintendo because most people like nintendo when it’s fun it’s hard to make that assumption if i

⏹️ ▶️ met this person in real life i’d i’d talk to them and try to figure out you know if you you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ played any games in the past which one appealed to you and you’re like well i used to play sim city a lot and

⏹️ ▶️ i would lose hours and hours in some city and civilization right that tells me

⏹️ ▶️ a lot about what type of game they’re going to be interested in but by the same token if they’ve never played

⏹️ ▶️ an open world game for example maybe that’s the thing that is going to make them obsessed and it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ difficult to choose a platform without really interrogating somebody about that because most

⏹️ ▶️ people who play video games don’t play like any large

⏹️ ▶️ percentage of the games available for a platform not everybody is like me we assent to play one game all the time but some

⏹️ ▶️ people belong that one game some people all they play is world of warcraft right for a first approximation

⏹️ ▶️ all they play is destiny right that’s one type of gamer but the other type

⏹️ ▶️ is not someone who plays seventy five games a year most people play a small number

⏹️ ▶️ of games per year of the type that they like and if you are really

⏹️ ▶️ really into you know zelda you have to get and is the only place

⏹️ ▶️ it is there’s not even any kind of zelda equivalents on other platforms for the most part sorry ocean horn

⏹️ ▶️ like that and if you just play like the one or two zelda

⏹️ ▶️ games that are released and then a couple of other things you have to get a nintendo platform so that’s the danger of picking

⏹️ ▶️ a platform you like i’m really excited about i’m really excited about call duty and that’s available

⏹️ ▶️ everybody everywhere right well fast forward and maybe it’s only available in xbox and pc and they get a playstation and

⏹️ ▶️ they’re like oh but i want to play call duty in fact that’s the only thing i want to do with my game systems play call

⏹️ ▶️ duty now i can’t play call of duty this thing is useless to me but when someone’s not a hardcore gamer you don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ like are they going to be a single franchise player for a decade or are they going to get heavily

⏹️ ▶️ into one or two types of games that are better in one plot from the other so it’s really a shot in the dark so my suggestion

⏹️ ▶️ for anyone like this is like find a game

⏹️ ▶️ find a game that you think you really want to play and maybe test that theory by trying it

⏹️ ▶️ over a friend’s house or whatever and then buy whatever platform that game is on right

⏹️ ▶️ if it’s on multiple platforms then it’s an easier conversation you can talk about price and features and availability of but

⏹️ ▶️ it you’re not i know it’s difficult because like i don’t want to buy the wrong platform but really what you want to do is

⏹️ ▶️ find the game or games that appeal to you and then buy whatever platform lets you play that game or

⏹️ ▶️ games but i would say like the odds of the switch having stuff that you

⏹️ ▶️ find really fun are pretty high but it depends maybe they’re the

⏹️ ▶️ type of person who’s going to get obsessively into civilization the switch is not going to help them there right

⏹️ ▶️ i on know civilization also i’m trying to think of a game like well then you’re a p c i think at that point right

⏹️ ▶️ but you don’t know like maybe like someone who’s just like all i do is play the sims that’s all

⏹️ ▶️ i do all day long is play the sims that’s the type of game i get into or like you know or world of warcraft or you know an up

⏹️ ▶️ world thing you have to you have to know you never know if they haven’t had contact with that what is going to suck

⏹️ ▶️ them into the rail or maybe they get sucked in to rabbit holes and they just want to casually play stuff and they should just fine with their phone

⏹️ ▶️ right so that’s why it’s so difficult for people who haven’t been exposed because if you haven’t been exposed

⏹️ ▶️ you don’t know what if anything will grab you and you can’t predict based on

⏹️ ▶️ your past behavior because if you’ve never been exposed to world ara craft you have no idea

⏹️ ▶️ whether it will consume your life or whether you will not care about it at all yet this is

⏹️ ▶️ the one moment where i kind of am sad that blockbuster video doesn’t exist anymore

⏹️ ▶️ right cause didn’t won’t you talk about this market just a couple of months back like renting video game systems and video

⏹️ ▶️ games and what not and so you could like rent a switch and give it a try for a week or whatever few a few nights

⏹️ ▶️ just to see how it goes and then rent an x box after that you know and so on it amazes me that they did

⏹️ ▶️ that i mean i did that i rented the systems it was like how did those systems survive for more than three days yes seriously

⏹️ ▶️ it was it was a gentler time i guess i think i was the only person renting the sake of saturn so it was getting

⏹️ ▶️ pretty gently used

#askatp: Bugs from hyphenated name?

⏹️ ▶️ and then peter waggoner writes my wife and i recently combined our last names into a single hyphenated last name

⏹️ ▶️ however i know many people confuse hyphens dashes and em dashes

⏹️ ▶️ is that right is it e m or am i pronouncing that correctly go and i

⏹️ ▶️ didn’t know if i was supposed to be like spelling those out or anything anyways to most programming languages distinguish

⏹️ ▶️ between these three i worry someone will use the wrong one and we’ll wind up with multiple entries in an important database somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ or worse they won’t be able to find our entry at all this is were not not being a computer

⏹️ ▶️ programmer is a blessing for normal people but also it makes you

⏹️ ▶️ have sometimes the wrong mental model about what part of what is responsible for what so this is not

⏹️ ▶️ for the most part a programming language problem but it is a

⏹️ ▶️ problem ah but it’s a problem for complicated stupid reasons that you

⏹️ ▶️ probably don’t care about involving the entire stack between you and where the data is

⏹️ ▶️ stored in back and i’m sure all of us could describe all the different places where this can get screwed up including sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ the programming language but very rarely but the wire protocol

⏹️ ▶️ the database format that the web form like there are

⏹️ ▶️ so many places where non askey characters can get mangled due to sort of you know us

⏹️ ▶️ dominance and invention of the internet and international standards and crap like that the yes you

⏹️ ▶️ probably should be concerned that anything fancier than aske is going to

⏹️ ▶️ get mangled by some especially if you’re in the us is going to get mangled by some system somewhere but it is not

⏹️ ▶️ mostly the fault of the programming language is the fault of one of the other seventeen layers between

⏹️ ▶️ you and success at any time that you are relying on other people to enter your

⏹️ ▶️ information into a computer system you have a pretty high risk of errors there

⏹️ ▶️ no matter whether you have a hyphen or not so i think that john

⏹️ ▶️ is right first of all that this is not a language problem but this is a technology problem in the sense that like you

⏹️ ▶️ know youre relying on things like unicode normalization to to match like

⏹️ ▶️ a and anybody who has a name that has a letter that is not common in

⏹️ ▶️ english so for instance if you have like you know a vowel that has an accent over it in

⏹️ ▶️ various forms as part of your name or you know something like that that’s there’s going to be

⏹️ ▶️ a lot of cases where not necessarily programming languages but just like the frameworks the databases

⏹️ ▶️ of drama saying different parts of the stack might either not consider like you know

⏹️ ▶️ an a with an accent over it to be an a or they might consider that to be a different character

⏹️ ▶️ than an a and or it might not match in the right way or something or it or gets double

⏹️ ▶️ encoded because someone screwed up the web form and so now the u t f a itself becomes u t f a encoded

⏹️ ▶️ and you get the big rat with a tilda over there’s just so many ways that is can go wrong right

⏹️ ▶️ but but the good thing is like most things that are that are related to like unicode in

⏹️ ▶️ coding and code and stuff like that most of those things are probably being worked out in most computer systems

⏹️ ▶️ over the last few decades because of the you know prevalence of having to make software

⏹️ ▶️ that works all over the world and for every different language and all the different character sets and everything so

⏹️ ▶️ that problem is less of an issue i think in most cases your uniformity today the bigger problem

⏹️ ▶️ i think is normalization except for the parts where you care about it the most like

⏹️ ▶️ banks and health care which are the most backwards in the most terrible systems and unfortunately

⏹️ ▶️ money and health are probably the areas whereas is going to annoy you the most starbucks is going

⏹️ ▶️ to probably have your name in beautiful u t f ing encoded characters preserved everywhere across the

⏹️ ▶️ whole entire thing but your hospital might not even be able to fit your name because their field for last

⏹️ ▶️ name only has like eight characters men and none of them and they’re all as right

⏹️ ▶️ so if things are slowly getting better unicode does make things

⏹️ ▶️ better but the older the system your dmv whatever the worse things tend to be

⏹️ ▶️ yeah the other the other thing that might help you out a little bit is that

⏹️ ▶️ most people especially people who would be entering your name into a database

⏹️ ▶️ somewhere don’t know how to type m dashes or am dashes and don’t even know what they are

⏹️ ▶️ um you know we’re lucky people can deal with things like periods in anything like

⏹️ ▶️ relying on the general public to type punctuation correctly

⏹️ ▶️ you know again this is going to be very are no matter how you do it but most people

⏹️ ▶️ don’t know that there are these different dashes and nor

⏹️ ▶️ they know how to type them and usually if you see somebody sending you a different dash

⏹️ ▶️ it is not usually because they hit you know option minus or whatever or or that they held

⏹️ ▶️ down the the hyphen key on their ios keyboard and waited a second and got the other two dashes there

⏹️ ▶️ it’s usually because they typed in two dashes in a row and whatever they’re typing in corrected

⏹️ ▶️ it to an m dash for them so it’s this is like you know no one’s choosing

⏹️ ▶️ to type these except nerds like me and very often you you will not know how to enter them even if you’re entering yourself

⏹️ ▶️ because say you’re not on a mac like i came across as recently someone was asking me how do i type this stuff in windows

⏹️ ▶️ and it’s like i don’t know do they still have those like you know all to owe one five or whatever the number pad oh

⏹️ ▶️ my god is that still like the only way to do it there they have to fix up its windows that has to still work

⏹️ ▶️ but i’m sure it’s me i don’t know the numerical code for an mdash to you off the now and

⏹️ ▶️ if you’re not a master you have no idea about all the you know options semicolon for an ellipsis and crap

⏹️ ▶️ like that right so even if you are allowed to type it yourself the keyboard doesn’t have those keys on it

⏹️ ▶️ so you have to know how to enter them and it’s it’s weird thank you to our sponsors this

⏹️ ▶️ week square space linode and mack weldon and thank you to our members who support us directly

⏹️ ▶️ you can join please do m slash join and we’ll talk to you next

⏹️ ▶️ week

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ now the show is over they

⏹️ ▶️ didn’t even mean to begin because it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ it was accidental john didn’t do any research

⏹️ ▶️ marco and casey wouldn’t let him because it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ it was accidental and you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ notes at p dot fm and if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ twitter you can follow them at c a s

⏹️ ▶️ e y l i assess to that’s k c s m a r c

⏹️ ▶️ o a r m ant marco men s

⏹️ ▶️ i r a c u s siracusa is

⏹️ ▶️ accidental one

Coconut jerk store

⏹️ ▶️ i had such a jerk store moment two weeks ago tell me more you were you

⏹️ ▶️ were buying some dried meats the what is it the spirit of the stairs someone

⏹️ ▶️ told me the french for that in the chat room please what is that i have no idea what you told us free descaler

⏹️ ▶️ maybe then i beat the chat room to it i don’t even think you beat the world to it yes seriously a

⏹️ ▶️ jerk store moment that some seinfeld episode where george remembers a great combat line but he remembers

⏹️ ▶️ it like a day later right yeah yeah exactly so the spirit of the stairs is i think a french saying of like you

⏹️ ▶️ remember the witty comeback as you’re going down the stairs on your way out of the place where you were insulted okay

⏹️ ▶️ so two weeks ago when i did

⏹️ ▶️ my first thing about like you know eating more vegetables and you guys were berating

⏹️ ▶️ me because you don’t believe i like coconut because i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ like dried toasty coconut flakes and i’m sitting there in the edit the next morning

⏹️ ▶️ i’m like how did i not like fight back on this in the most obvious way

⏹️ ▶️ and then i thought to myself how am i going to tell them this i better save it for next

⏹️ ▶️ week well then next week comes around this last week’s show and i and we talk about the same topic again

⏹️ ▶️ and i totally forget to give this follow up and then the next morning

⏹️ ▶️ editing that i’m like oh my god i can’t believe how did i not

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t remember exactly what you said but my recollection of the conversation was you see

⏹️ ▶️ guys i don’t like coconut i like this this this this and this which all include coconut

⏹️ ▶️ but i really don’t like coconut no it’s even worse than that you’re mis remembering

⏹️ ▶️ but before we get to that though marco i would like i would like to remind you of

⏹️ ▶️ what happened in that seinfeld episode do you remember how it ends i believe george

⏹️ ▶️ like eventually does get himself back into that group and like

⏹️ ▶️ gives his stupid jerk store thing and it falls on its face miserably you know which is how

⏹️ ▶️ this is going to do maybe a cautionary tale so with that in mind proceed and explained to

⏹️ ▶️ how we should not have said that you really don’t like open so he okay so my position

⏹️ ▶️ on cocoanut is that i like i eat tons of coconut i eat

⏹️ ▶️ the coconut meat like that you get precise at the grocery store like those little wedges of cocoanut i drink

⏹️ ▶️ a lot of coconut milk and i have coconut based cream and milk and stuff in lots

⏹️ ▶️ of other things oh and i like coconut water as well okay so so you like coconut

⏹️ ▶️ you two said that the only way you like coconut is

⏹️ ▶️ to shredded toasted and dried the only way i

⏹️ ▶️ just said that that is a very common way okay and then and then you told

⏹️ ▶️ me that because i don’t like the shredded toasted dried version that it sounds like

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t like coconut so okay if you look at the what is in a coconut

⏹️ ▶️ what’s in it untouched like you just take like the hair off what’s in the coconut

⏹️ ▶️ naturally in the most basic state is all the stuff i like and you guys are

⏹️ ▶️ saying you only like this one like really processed version of it and that

⏹️ ▶️ like somehow i’m the one that i like you don’t like coconut if you don’t like coconut meat

⏹️ ▶️ and coconut water and coconut milk you don’t like coconut we just like the other ones better it’s like saying i like

⏹️ ▶️ steak tar tar but i don’t like hamburger steak or any cooked form of me oh you only like

⏹️ ▶️ this processed form of beef like well i’m going to say if you don’t like hamburgers or steaks you don’t like beef

⏹️ ▶️ like you know i like steak tartar the raw version in fact that’s the best version i just go right up to the cow and

⏹️ ▶️ i bite it you like the cool but the most the most common

⏹️ ▶️ form of coconut in this country is shredded and very often toasted so ant mounds

⏹️ ▶️ and almond joy are shredded shredded coconut the most common form of cheese in this country

⏹️ ▶️ is american cheese are you saying that if somebody doesn’t like american cheese that they don’t like cheese that’s what i’m

⏹️ ▶️ saying cheese has more variety cheese has more variety than coconut but does it but i think the thing

⏹️ ▶️ the coconuts that i’m eating that the form of the coco i’m eating is pretty different from the form that you’re eating

⏹️ ▶️ but the most common form you said you also didn’t like german chocolate cake like we’re not just saying dried toasted

⏹️ ▶️ coconut that is very common but you also excluded tons of other forms of coconut that are way

⏹️ ▶️ more common than just having the raw coconut so i think if you’re saying i don’t like any of those but i

⏹️ ▶️ only like it raw it’s like only like mistake tartar but insisting that you love beef i think i love

⏹️ ▶️ coconut and i think you guys don’t i think you guys love coconut candy i would

⏹️ ▶️ i would say that i don’t generally care for coconut um i think there are occasions

⏹️ ▶️ where i like it i typically like the number one thing i can think of is like coconut trim which

⏹️ ▶️ is you know deep fried to series i will

⏹️ ▶️ be the first to tell you that is not really coconut at that point it is it is some other thing entirely

⏹️ ▶️ is it even shrimp at that point i mean yeah who knows it mostly better like all fried things

⏹️ ▶️ right but this i think the analogy i use because i don’t think i particularly

⏹️ ▶️ care for coconut with a couple of exceptions but the example i used is that i keep telling

⏹️ ▶️ aaron that i don’t like caramel caramel however you pronounce it but then i’ll keep saying oh

⏹️ ▶️ this is really good and what is this and i can’t think of a specific example but oh that’s you know like chocolate

⏹️ ▶️ cover and carl and then i’ll set something oh wow this that was really good what was that oh it’s such and such with caramel

⏹️ ▶️ over it but but i don’t like caramel and aron will just give me that look like think you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ but you do and so i would say that i don’t particularly care for coconut with an exception

⏹️ ▶️ or two and i think my coconut moment is that i tell you i would tell you

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t like caramel but i think i actually do yeah i think mark the thing you’re missing your you’re saying the essential

⏹️ ▶️ raw form of it is the the primal form and i’m saying that the primal form is the form that it is most commonly

⏹️ ▶️ founded just like the cook beef thing but yes beef is meat eaten raw but generally is cooked and if you only like

⏹️ ▶️ the raw form you can make the argument that this is the most primal form i like beef the most because i don’t even need it to be cooked

⏹️ ▶️ but in this country that’s weird and i feel like coconut is in the same category most people have it shredded

⏹️ ▶️ sometimes dried sometimes toasted but certainly not just raw from the thing

⏹️ ▶️ and because you like it that way you think that means you really like hooking up but i think it’s because it’s so uncommon that

⏹️ ▶️ you like it in a weird way and you don’t like all the much more common ways it makes me think you’re

⏹️ ▶️ not as big a fan of coconut if you really love coconut i like it in all forms like if you really love beef i love all

⏹️ ▶️ forms of beef from steak tartar to a great steak to you know a burger to everything you

⏹️ ▶️ possibly imagine steak smoothie i love it i think you’d have a stronger argument then

⏹️ ▶️ could have a stronger argument there but because you like a weird form of coconut the best and actively dislike the other ones

⏹️ ▶️ it makes you less of a coconut fan in my eyes well first of all i would say my weird form of coconut

⏹️ ▶️ is only weird in the u s and even then it’s pretty it’s getting

⏹️ ▶️ less weird over time as like all these dairy alternatives start involving coconut the coconut milk

⏹️ ▶️ is probably getting less weird the the raw onco cocoanut staying weird how do

⏹️ ▶️ people what do people do with them i don’t know if most people could even if we said you have one hour

⏹️ ▶️ to buy a raw and coconut go do it most people couldn’t accomplish that task because they wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ even know where to look for it it’s not it’s so uncommon next time you’re in kroger

⏹️ ▶️ casey see if they even have that in the store you assume i’m going into grocery stores these days

⏹️ ▶️ it’s all click less baby someone’s got to go under groceries no even aaron doesn’t we all we do the deliver

⏹️ ▶️ to your trump thing then well that’s that’s even better test to have some instacart person try to find this for you

⏹️ ▶️ like what you want what coconut and they’ll bring you a bag of shredded coconut because

⏹️ ▶️ that’s much more common can you old kitty aside can you not find like coconut in the proto section i’m genuinely

⏹️ ▶️ asking i have no idea you can find whole coconuts sometimes usually they have those they usually have those

⏹️ ▶️ like peeled ones that they they they like they have somehow removed like the dark brown hair on the outside

⏹️ ▶️ and what’s left like this like tan like like like a tone it’s like a weird

⏹️ ▶️ shape like they’ve like shaved off part of it i haven’t been brave enough to open one of those up yet but i almost

⏹️ ▶️ did last time but they felt kind of soft but whole foods is the only place that has for a thousand dollars apiece

⏹️ ▶️ the pre cut up pieces of coconut and they’re delicious this whole foods will pre cut up any

⏹️ ▶️ fruit for you and charge you a thousand dollars for is there anything that isn’t a thousand dollars for whole foods

⏹️ ▶️ now there’s some things like mine apples milk is a loss leader at whole foods milk is our whole

⏹️ ▶️ foods is the place where we can get the cheapest milk is that where i get you in the door but do not buy any cup fruit because

⏹️ ▶️ it costs more than a car i think it might as told this story on at t like literally five years ago but

⏹️ ▶️ one day when i was at my job by job i decided to go out to eat or

⏹️ ▶️ like to grab some food from out which is very unusual for me usually i brought like a sandwich or something and i decided

⏹️ ▶️ to go out and and i worked very close to whole foods and so i went to whole foods and i went

⏹️ ▶️ to the little hot bar and i was treating myself there’s your man so well it’s to hold on

⏹️ ▶️ on a million levels but i’m all excited i got a little of this a little of that and because of

⏹️ ▶️ american i grabbed you know like a ladle full of mac and cheese which of course weighs

⏹️ ▶️ eighty five tons area

⏹️ ▶️ and so i grabbed some man tees and i went through the line and of course this was ten years ago my memory shot and so i’m

⏹️ ▶️ probably making this up but i genuinely refrain that you told the story on the show before we gone i said that i told the

⏹️ ▶️ story in the show before me credit for that so anyway so i get it i got to check out and it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ eighteen dollars at the hot bar for just in the bar and you can’t get one thing cut up of in for that

⏹️ ▶️ price that’s how they get to like those it is that isn’t a whole problem that’s

⏹️ ▶️ every hot bar like when i used to work in manhattan like we’d go out to lunch a lot of days and and i would occasionally

⏹️ ▶️ occasionally go to a place and have one of those big hot bars and like it you know you put anything in there thirteen

⏹️ ▶️ dollars anything i mean and it makes economic sense like both the hot bars

⏹️ ▶️ and the pre cut fruit like it’s not like they’re gouging you for the hell of it it’s because you have someone

⏹️ ▶️ you have to pay someone to cut up all that fruit and then they end up throwing out tons of it because it doesn’t keep right

⏹️ ▶️ and so someone prepares all that food cooks it puts in these dishes sits it out there and then half of it gets thrown away

⏹️ ▶️ because nobody bought it and so the one person who buys a salad pays for like you know

⏹️ ▶️ a huge amount of food and like when you buy that thing of cut up fruit it’s yes it’s the cost of the fruit

⏹️ ▶️ but then it’s the time of the person cutting it up and then there’s the fact that the seven other bins of pineapple are

⏹️ ▶️ going to get thrown away in two days and no one’s going to buy them so you’re buying all those too

⏹️ ▶️ i think i mostly get upset because i had a pineapple today and it was really disappointing

⏹️ ▶️ my latest in apple sir when you discuss the difficulty of trying to get one that is the correct

⏹️ ▶️ ripeness i did actually google up on that to try to but it was it was very difficult advice to follow i even

⏹️ ▶️ like and i knew when i was buying it because i was wearing a big mask and i was trying to like you know dip the mass down to smell

⏹️ ▶️ the bottom of the pineapple and like i couldn’t smell much and like well can not smell much because i had a mask on my face for an hour

⏹️ ▶️ or can i not spell well thank god

⏹️ ▶️ that wasn’t it but uh but yeah so like i knew going into it i’m like this is this

⏹️ ▶️ is going to be a pretty bland pineapple but they were really they were like on sale for like two bucks and i got

⏹️ ▶️ to try it just in case the two or pineapple in january martin

⏹️ ▶️ i don’t know anything about pineapple and even i know that’s a port

⏹️ ▶️ i mean for two dollars you can’t go i mean it’s probably worth the gamble because who know yeah

⏹️ ▶️ you got lucky but you did yeah i mean it’s not it’s not inedible it’s just not you know a good pineapple

⏹️ ▶️ when you get a good one it’s so good because i like pineapples

⏹️ ▶️ john i don’t know if i find the natural form of it and i cut it up and eat it and

⏹️ ▶️ i like that design now i would say that if you if you like fresh pineapples but didn’t like canned

⏹️ ▶️ pineapples i’d be like you don’t really like pineapple now i don’t like pineapple flavored selzer does that man

⏹️ ▶️ like pineapple john flavor salsa carbonated water that that wave of pineapple over two

⏹️ ▶️ seconds that’s like my martinis with vermouth you know it’s funny to me how genuinely upset

⏹️ ▶️ you are coconut not tell me i don’t for two weeks

⏹️ ▶️ your coconut love your coconut love is processed

⏹️ ▶️ but it was the goal of you telling me i don’t like coconut because i like the most

⏹️ ▶️ direct one i explained i think i explain my reasoning i mean you might disagree with it

⏹️ ▶️ but i had that was my thinking on that and i think it is not an unreasonable way to think about who

⏹️ ▶️ loves something more than someone else only you are agreeing on cheese