695: The Crystal Pepsi of Aqua
09 Jun 2026WWDC 2026 coverage and our first impressions of macOS Golden Gate, iOS 27, and Siri AI.
Episode Description:
- WWDC 2026
- Post-show: Casey’s unexpected afternoon
- Members-only ATP Overtime: The foldable iPhone takes shape
- White foldable phone
- More details
- Sonny Dickson’s images [Alternatively, on Xcancel]
- Case leaks
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Chapters
- Always on vacation in Virginia
- WWDC: Fixing stuff
- Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
- WWDC: Trust & Safety
- Sponsor: Claude
- WWDC: AI
- WWDC: Themes
- Ending theme
- Callsheet is famous
Always on vacation in Virginia
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now it’s WBDC week. This is the most important Podcast episode that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we do in the year. This is the one that we get but usually significantly more downloads
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than average It’s the one where we have the most live listeners. It’s the one really where everyone’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most excited to about our about our show And it always happens in the same,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, one to two week span. It’s it’s always the first or second week of June
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s been that way for, I don’t know, 30 years. Casey, when did you schedule
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, as it turns out, I’m not at home right now. I’m at the beach. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey first of all, if I sound funny, I am using my normal microphone, my normal preamp, my normal mute switch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m using different XLR cables, if that matters. But I’m in a very, very different physical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey environment. Are they oxygen-free cables? Yeah, right? They’re gold-plated, Marco, just for you. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, so if I sound like crap, that is my fault, not Marco’s. We wanted to address that right now. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hopefully I sound normal or normal-ish, but if it’s a little echoey or something like that, or if you hear a child or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a dog in the background, I will try to ride the mute switch aggressively. Seagulls. Seagulls, something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that. But yeah, so I’m in a different spot.
⏹️ ▶️ John not what Marco was asking you to address, by the way.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m getting there. I’m getting there. So, the thing of it was, was that we had thought
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we were going to do another overseas trip this summer. We thought this in the summer of 25, we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought, okay, the summer of 26, we’re going to go back overseas. And we had planned our vacation schedule with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the assumption that we would be spending a week or two overseas, probably in July, which is typically when we would come to the beach.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I have a particular beach house that I really like, John can appreciate this.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I got this thought in my mind that if I don’t at least book something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the beginning of the summer, it’s just going to book up out from under us. And then we won’t even have any opportunity to go to my favorite beach house
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at my favorite beach. And so I thought to myself, well, self, Apple always does the first
⏹️ ▶️ Casey week in June. And we’re going to talk more about that in two seconds. But Apple always does the first week in June.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Of course, WWDC will be the first week in June. Even if I were to get an invite, I’ll be home
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by that following weekend. No problem. no issue with me scheduling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this the second week of June. And honestly, what I’ll end up doing is I’m just going to get, I’m just going to cancel this and you’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rebook for later in the summer once we have a little bit clearer plans. Well, I’ll give you one guess what didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happen. We didn’t rebook for later in the summer. And also this is Marco’s birthday
⏹️ ▶️ Casey week. How many birthdays have I celebrated? How many of your birthdays have I celebrated with you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in WWDC? You would think I would have thought of this, but no, I didn’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my birthday is in the second week of June and I think I’ve spent at least four of them in WBC. Right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And WBC last year was in the second week of June.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Was it? Yes, it was. failures up and down and sideways.
WWDC: Fixing stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I lost a bet with myself to begin the video. I thought there was going to be some super campy, super
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cringe, like two dads moment where, um, where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Ternus and cook were going to do, you know, the passing of the torch, baton, whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that didn’t happen at all. Ternus who? Yeah, exactly. Who, where,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey who is John Ternus? We don’t know. He’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the, like the general like stagecraft and mood of this video,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it had some interesting changes that I would like to kind of get on, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cover right up front here. Number one, the general, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco broad content of the video had very little,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, here’s what the new OSes are doing, and here’s a feature, and here’s a screenshot demo, or here’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something demoing them. Like, it was surprisingly little of that. It was also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprisingly low on the kitch with the exception of the Federighi intro about the Mac OS name. We’ll get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to that. But one thing I noticed that I really liked about these, and we’ll get to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this more later, is they included what appeared to be real time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco demos of all the new AI stuff, even when it was like a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slow and you had to wait a second and there was like some dead air. And they would show
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it usually with like a split screen view of the presenter on the left and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco their hand holding an iPhone on the right and you would see things happening in real time on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that iPhone, it almost felt like a live performance. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think this bridge that gap better than any of the videos they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever made since the COVID transition into this whole format, like what they’ve done here,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think whether they meant to or not, it brought back a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit of that humanity. I don’t know if that was intentional,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t know if they plan to continue that or if they just wanted to show like, all right, we got kind of burned
⏹️ ▶️ Marco last time we showed, you know, fake AI stuff. We’re gonna make sure we really are careful and show real
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI stuff this time. But whatever it was, I liked that change. It felt a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit more human, even though I know it was edited, it felt a little bit less perfect. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could see if the presenter’s hand was like slightly moving. You would see that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like on the split screen. One of the presenters, he had an Apple Watch link bracelet and the bottom
⏹️ ▶️ Marco clasp was all beaten up because it’s a link bracelet, that that’s what happens when you have one. It’s like, they didn’t give him a brand new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one for the shot. That’s just obviously his watch and it’s all beaten up. There was little displays
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of imperfection and humanity there that I have found lacking in their stuff in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of ways for years. And this brought back a little hint of that and I like that a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I definitely.
⏹️ ▶️ John Since Marco’s already talking about the overall structure, but just kind of where we start this thing, we can go back to the intro video if you want,
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey, although there wasn’t much to it. But that’s something that a lot of people have noted and have different
⏹️ ▶️ John ideas about the reasoning behind it. The difference this year from many past
⏹️ ▶️ John years is they didn’t go through the OSs. So as usual, we’re gonna go through the keynote in the order that they
⏹️ ▶️ John did it in the keynote. And that usually means, okay, well, what do they talk about first? Okay, the first they talk about macOS, then they talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about this OS, They just go through it by OS and they have to always do the dance increasingly
⏹️ ▶️ John in the past several years of being like, well, whatever OS goes first gets to talk about some feature. But of course we
⏹️ ▶️ John know that feature is going to appear on all the other OSs too. And so when they do the subsequent OSs, they’ll say, and
⏹️ ▶️ John of course we have the XYZ feature, which you also saw on Mac OS or whatever. Like, and as they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John increased the number of sort of features that are common across all their platforms, that
⏹️ ▶️ John becomes more and more weird because sometimes they don’t have have time to say like, all right, so is that
⏹️ ▶️ John thing on iPad OS? You talked about it in Mac OS, but now you’re talking about iOS and you didn’t mention that thing, but you did
⏹️ ▶️ John say it’s like on all your platforms. Is it not on iPad OS? And it was always very confusing.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so that’s one aspect of it of like not having to do the thing where we were, what
⏹️ ▶️ John it, whichever OS goes first gets to talk about the worst part is they have an OS go second and talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about a feature that was actually in the first OS, but they didn’t mention it then. And so they have to like retroactively say, and by
⏹️ ▶️ John the way, even though we finished talking about Mac OS, this feature is in Mac OS too, but we didn’t want to talk about it until iPad OS. Weird
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff they’ve been doing for years. So that awkwardness was gone here. And the other thing is,
⏹️ ▶️ John if you have a year, like I think this year, where you don’t have a lot of new
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, if you were to go OS by OS, you’d kind of run out
⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff really fast. Either you’d have to, again, intentionally delay stuff where you’re like, okay, I’m not gonna talk about this stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John in this OS, I’m gonna save it for iOS, cause that’s our big one. even though it’s on all the OSs. Or
⏹️ ▶️ John you’d talk about everything on the first few OSs and then the last couple of them, you’d be like, they have the stuff the other ones have.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it would be weird. So I can just see them in the meeting going, how are we gonna do this? We don’t have any hardware,
⏹️ ▶️ John which spoiler, no hardware. And spoiler, I said before, no Ternus. No hardware, no Ternus.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco They come as a package deal. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s just gonna be software. And we do have things to talk about, but do we have enough that we really wanna
⏹️ ▶️ John go through? It’s like the old adage about don’t organize your presentation around your, the org chart of your company.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Your company has a vice president of whatever, and a vice president of whatever, and a vice president of whatever. But when you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John telling your story to the public, they don’t care what your internal company organization is. And it’s not like Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John is exposing its internal organization because their OS is are in fact products like customer facing products. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ John But they’re also categorically like if you’re Apple, you really care about the different OS
⏹️ ▶️ John is that you have. But if you’re a customer, you’re like, I just buy Apple stuff and it works together.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so I can’t decide whether this is the format they’re gonna go with entirely moving
⏹️ ▶️ John forward or they’re gonna revert to, oh, when we have tons of stuff to talk about, we’re gonna go OS by OS again.
⏹️ ▶️ John But this year they did not go OS by OS. They didn’t even, they just, they went, well, we’ll get to
⏹️ ▶️ John the structure in a second, but they went through three weirdly named categories of stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John And each one of those categories, they talked about all their products and all their services and all their OSs
⏹️ ▶️ John that have anything to do with that category of thing. I saw some people think that say that
⏹️ ▶️ John they thought it was boring to have that structure, but I see the problem it’s solving kind of like the, uh, the
⏹️ ▶️ John redesign of system settings in macOS, which I dislike, but I see the problem it’s solving and I see
⏹️ ▶️ John the ways that it solved it. And so that’s my take on their structure here. I didn’t, I see what Mark was saying about
⏹️ ▶️ John the humanity. Like we’ll talk about that when we get to the live demo things later. But I did think
⏹️ ▶️ John the, I don’t know, the, the cinematography, the, the, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John the appearance, the editing of this one, uh, was a little bit different than past years and maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit more human. It’s still a little bit inhuman. Things look a little bit too perfect, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I do get a little bit of like the, um, people look more like they’re in real places. A couple
⏹️ ▶️ John of shots. Like I think Josh standing in front of the reflecting pool thing was a little bit overlit, but otherwise
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s, it was very polished and it was in a, say an innovative structure to fit what they had
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. I mean, I, I, I’ve been trying to think about this video and again, I know I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being cagey about it, but my afternoon has been upside down inside out in a good way or mostly good ways. But, um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t know. I feel like I, I both loved and hated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this WWDC. I mean, hated is strong, but I, I, I really enjoyed it and also left feeling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, okay, in that they did the thing that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve all, myself myself included, long asked them to do, which is to say, they didn’t throw
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a whole pile of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, or at least I don’t really view it that way. They
⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t go in 300 different directions. Most importantly, for my personal preferences, they didn’t, at least
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the keynote, we’ll get to the state of the union maybe another day, but they didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ram AI down our throats and you can do AI for this because you can.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, there was very little of that. It was more of what I expect from Apple, what I like from Apple, which is,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, we are leveraging AI to do the following cool crap on your behalf,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is great. That’s what I want. And so, the keynote was, in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a way, a little bit boring. Like, if I think back to prior keynotes, you’re getting all these new whiz-bang features and all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this new stuff that’s like brand new, and you never even considered, and amazing, and I’m fully in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the reality distortion field. And this one, it was like, yeah, okay, so you did all the things you should have done 10 years
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, Which on the one side that should be commended because they should have done those things 10 years ago, five
⏹️ ▶️ Casey years ago, whatever. But on the other side, afterwards it was like, okay, like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not sure what to be super duper excited about, you know what I mean? And that’s unusual for me,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but broadly I don’t have any specific like complaints about it and I thought the video
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Marco’s point, I couldn’t agree with Marco more, felt way more human. And, and I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey them leaning into these kind of uncomfortable pauses while they’re letting Siri churn
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the things that series churn on. I think that was good. And I would argue necessary
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that shows us no, this is really how it sure seems to indicate anyway, this is really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happening. These things are really happening on device. This is not a fake. This is not a mock up. And generally speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like those pauses were way too long, especially for a recorded video. But again, I agree with Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I think that was actually a benefit or a feature rather than a bug. You know what I mean?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco In many of these areas, Apple has had a credibility problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it was extra important for them to lean into the fact that like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, look, this time what we are showing off and what we are claiming to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to do, this time it works, we swear, pinky promise.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we actually still don’t know if that’s true or not. Time will tell.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But so far, like almost everything they demoed today
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the core level it was like, well here’s a technology that we’ve promised in the past could
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be pretty good and it wasn’t. Or we weren’t able to deliver what we said we were going to deliver.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or in some way there was some kind of disappointment about it. This time they’re saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we improved lots of things all over the place, which I’m actually very excited about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that is at all true. And so far, it seems pretty credible so far. so far, so we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see how that goes, but you know, we’ve improved a bunch of everything all over the place and also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All that AI stuff that we’ve been talking about that we promised two years ago, and then kind of just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whistled and walked away from Here some of it is back We kind of went
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a few different directions but some of it is here and other stuff got better too and here’s some more stuff you can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do and better stuff you can use and Here it is it works this time. Oh Siri also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco allegedly works this time Okay, if that is actually true,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s huge because that’s what we’ve wanted. We’ve wanted a Siri that works.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ve wanted an OS that gets incrementally better. We wanted a new design that was less
⏹️ ▶️ Marco crappy than Liquid Glass’s first attempt. All of these areas that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve actually really been wanting and hoping for, they claim to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have delivered on those without adding too many like brand new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whiz bang you know things that that really make for a good keynote so it kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of seemed like a boring keynote in some ways but I actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kind of wanted to reframe it not as boring but as refreshing because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they’re actually doing is delivering what we’ve been wanting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what they’ve had trouble delivering. So here they’re taking another attempt. I, it, so far
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks, it looks like it’s going in the right direction. We’ll see how it shakes out throughout the summer and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fall. But, uh, this is, this is exactly what I was hoping they would do.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Yeah. That’s really well put. And, you know, Kieran Healy in the chat distilled my earlier rambling and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just perfectly, Kieran said, people say they want a bug fix or snow leopard release, but they get bored when they get
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one. And that’s what I’m like, struggling with was like, you know, normally I leave this, these keynotes just so freaking jazzed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in this time. I was like, yeah, okay, cool. You
⏹️ ▶️ John know, since you two are giving your final judgments now at the top of the show for some unknown reason, I’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey give mine. This is where the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey conversation went, John.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I’m sorry, dad.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I’ll give mine, which is, uh, I was more excited after the end of this keynote than I was last
⏹️ ▶️ John year. Not even a contest. Like I, it was the most excited I’ve been about WNBC in a long time. Now part of that
⏹️ ▶️ John is because, uh, they made things terrible. And then when you make things terrible and back it out, like
⏹️ ▶️ John you feel better about it. So it’s kind of cheating. I guess I will talk more about that later. But that’s how I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. And it’s for the reasons you said, like, I’ll go into more detail as we get through the event because
⏹️ ▶️ John we do have a lot to go through. But that’s my overall impression, which that’s just me personally, I can understand
⏹️ ▶️ John why some people might have been disappointed that they didn’t go OS by OS. My people were disappointed that they concentrated so much
⏹️ ▶️ John on the things they concentrate on and didn’t talk about the things that they that they wanted to hear about why people are disappointed that they weren’t
⏹️ ▶️ John dazzled, like Casey said, show me the cool thing. me this amazing thing that I couldn’t have ever dreamed of.
⏹️ ▶️ John That wasn’t this presentation. And I understand why people will feel the way, but I personally was very excited by what I saw, and
⏹️ ▶️ John it gave me good old nostalgic WWDC feelings. But we should actually
⏹️ ▶️ John move on to the presentation. Yes, indeed. Just the overall structure. And we’ll get to these a piece at a time was
⏹️ ▶️ John three things, only three platform improvements, trust and safety and Apple intelligence and Siri.
⏹️ ▶️ John When I saw the first one, I’m like, OK, they’re going to talk about all their platforms, their trust and safety. I’m like, what are they going to talk about there? We’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John find out. And then obviously, Apple Intelligence and Siri, we know what they were going to talk about there. We were not surprised. But
⏹️ ▶️ John first, the crack marketing team appears.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. So first we had the crack marketing team. I’ve always enjoyed these.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sometimes it’s easier to enjoy than others. This one was a little harder for me to enjoy. But overall, I did still enjoy it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they had a very cute, like, you know, Volkswagen bus animation. Although, interestingly, the original one,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not the new electric version.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, because the new one’s massive, I think it wouldn’t have worked quite as well.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. But either way, they’ve concluded on the new name for Mac OS, which is Mac OS Golden Gate, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think is reasonable. And I’m not surprised they used it. It was, I think they maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let the segment go on a touch longer than it really needed to. But overall, I always find these to be kind of silly and fun.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it brings a little bit of humor and silliness to an otherwise very serious, very buttoned up presentation.
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it was great when Jaws leans out of the van and says it’s Golden Gate. They landed it.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco In the beginning with the
⏹️ ▶️ John animations and the swooping and the silliness, it was very silly, but it was also short and he just drives by in the bus,
⏹️ ▶️ John leans out the door. It’s Golden Gate, man. Sure. Although Golden Gate does sound like a code name rather than a public name, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you know, it’s a California name. Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John so we continue to rumble on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So let’s start with platform improvements in this. I don’t know if this was literally the first things Craig said, probably not,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but early on he said the following and we tried to make this a verbatim quote. We may not have it exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, but anyway, Craig said, our products are an integral part of daily life. So naturally we all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have high expectations for them. And we’re always challenging ourselves to make our products ever more responsive,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ever more reliable, even more reliable, excuse me, and that much more delightful to use. So instead of just introducing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a host of new features, we’re also taking the features you already rely on and making them even better
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because we believe the best operating systems aren’t just built on big breakthroughs. They’re built on sweating
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you speak Apple speak, this is where Apple is saying, we’re sorry, we made a
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of bad decisions last time, and we’re going to fix them this time. and we’re going to regroup and fix a bunch of our crap before we go
⏹️ ▶️ John forward with a bunch of new features. Now, and you would say, how can you read that into that? That’s not what they
⏹️ ▶️ John said at all. You have to be able to read between the lines. This is as close as Apple will ever get in the modern era to doing
⏹️ ▶️ John what they used to do occasionally, which was basically say, our last thing sucked. We’re sorry, we’re fixing it. They
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t say that directly anymore. In the Steve Jobs time, they did say that or imply that, or
⏹️ ▶️ John they were much more blunt. But the modern Tim Cook Apple does not admit fault in that way.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is how they admit fault by saying, we need to slow down, we need to fix our crap,
⏹️ ▶️ John we did some bad things and we’re gonna regroup. Are they gonna say, as we’ve discussed in past
⏹️ ▶️ John episodes, oh, no new features, snow leopard? No, the sentence, the key sentence here is, so instead
⏹️ ▶️ John of just introducing a host of new features, we’re also taking the
⏹️ ▶️ John features you’re already relying on and making them even better. So they’re not just introducing new features because they’re like,
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re of course introducing new features. Don’t let anyone say that we’re not introducing new features. We’re introducing new features, but we’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not just introducing new features. We’re also fixing our crap,
⏹️ ▶️ John taking the features you already rely on and making them even better. That is Apple marketing speak for fixing our
⏹️ ▶️ John past mistakes. And they do this every year where they introduce new features and fix past mistakes, right? But
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t always have a paragraph at the front of the keynote set, like
⏹️ ▶️ John addressing the audience and saying, you know, they can’t all be years where we make a bunch of
⏹️ ▶️ John big new features. Sometimes we have to fix our crap and that’s what they’re doing, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s and it’s The way they spin it is the best operating systems aren’t just built
⏹️ ▶️ John on big breakthroughs They’re also about sweating the details This is such a positive spin about
⏹️ ▶️ John like we use them so much and we have high expectations for them We’re always challenging ourselves to make them better and more responsive
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a little bit annoying to hear I’m dancing around these points in this way,
⏹️ ▶️ John but this is, this is the direct as app modern Apple will ever get it saying, we’re sorry,
⏹️ ▶️ John we did some bad stuff. We’re fixing it. Thank you for bearing with us.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this began with a sublime Kedia, I think. Anyway, the, the director of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey human human interface saying we take a bold leap forward and then we continue to iterate,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, then a few other words, our team really appreciates your feedback.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, this is
⏹️ ▶️ John the same of like this is their version of saying, Hey, remember when we did iOS 7, everyone hated and we rolled it back? Well, that’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John the way things work. And we’re out here saying, no, it doesn’t have to work that way. You can not launch something that
⏹️ ▶️ John is horrendously bad and then fix it. You know, we’ve had this past discussion when look who last came
⏹️ ▶️ John out, like sometimes it is good to just be bold with the first version, but there’s being bold and there’s doing stuff that everybody’s telling
⏹️ ▶️ John you is a terrible idea and then saying, you know what? You were right. That was a terrible idea. Let’s fix it.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know, so this is an even more direct, uh, you know, addressing liquid glass directly and saying,
⏹️ ▶️ John thank you for your feedback. We appreciate your feedback. And you know, this is just what we always do. We try it and then we listen to
⏹️ ▶️ John your feedback and then we iterate and we’re like, we’re not entirely happy with this process, but go on.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I noticed like one of the, one of the phrases they use was, uh, they were going to quote, reincorporate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the cornerstones of Mac design.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco other words,
⏹️ ▶️ John we will somehow remember how to make door handles.
⏹️ ▶️ John things we used to know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John we will remember again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and this was, you know, so kicking off the whole like liquid glass, you know, basically 1.1 kind of design.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is about as much as I would expect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a one year correction. Like I was, obviously I would like for it to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even more changed. And what I hope happens, like, you know, you mentioned a minute ago, like with the iOS 7 thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS 7 changed a lot during its beta. over over that summer before
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was released to the public. Liquid glass didn’t. Liquid glass hardly changed at
⏹️ ▶️ John Or rather, it hovered around a central point instead of making any progress in any particular direction.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And then it ended up shipping almost exactly what was in beta one.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was a little bit different, but it didn’t. It didn’t like they kept going. What about this way? What about this way? And they ended up really close to where
⏹️ ▶️ John they started. It was.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So what what liquid glass ended up shipping was very much like the butterfly keyboard gasket.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like, OK, well, we didn’t really fix any of the really fundamental problems about this we just put like a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of band-aids on and ship it so what they’ve done this year so far it looks like they have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco put a few larger bandages on it one of the core thing that they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco showed is like now there’s a slider for going wherever you want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in like you know you can have it be super clear all the way to totally frosted
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like okay if your design needs that it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bad design and and I that I’m glad that they gave me that because I’m going to put it all the way to the right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think that that’s them kind of weaseling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of making a choice and the right choice is frosted like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unquestionably but they can’t quite admit that to themselves or they can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite convince whoever to do it to actually go forward it solves so many of of the problems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s why they had to add it. And the fact that they had to add it shows this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco design does not work universally. And there’s a way to make it work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco universally. And when you put it all the way to the right, it still looks like a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco modern, nice, sleek design. It doesn’t turn it back to iOS 18.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it still looks nice and new. It just solves a lot of the problems. but they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t yet admit that their cool concept of blobby
⏹️ ▶️ Marco glass with refractions and reflections and all this, like, they can’t quite admit that that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too… It’s too polarizing and it’s too… whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the opposite of versatile is. Like, it does not work well in enough conditions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of content to be the default look, or to be the universal look of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system theme. They can’t bring themselves to say that. So instead, they not only add, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally they would have solved this in the past with a checkbox. Now it’s a slider because now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re saying, we really can’t decide, we’re gonna give all of the control to you,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which to a certain kind of nerd, we love that control and we want that kind of control.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But for Apple to say our system design needs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this level of user control because we can’t make the decision for you that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually universal. That to me says that’s a weakness of the design. If
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have to ship that level of a control, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a good design, and that’s not a confident design
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, but another way to look at this, and I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know if I believe what I’m about to tell you or not, but another way of looking at it is it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey flexible. It can flex from, what were the two terms I used? ultra clear to fully tinted.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I tend to think you’re probably right, Marco, that really the better answer would have been to put a line in the sand and stick
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with it or change where that line is drawn if it’s wrong. But I do think there is something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to commend in the fact that it is flexible enough to be, if you have incredible eyesight and don’t mind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the transparency, you can make it super duper clear. Or if you’re anything like us three old men,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can make it super duper translucent rather, or tinted, I guess I should say instead.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, see, that’s the thing. If you’re hearing this and thinking, oh, so you’re saying any kind of setting in an interface shows it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a bad interface, that’s not what we’re getting at all. And with your point about flexibility, Casey,
⏹️ ▶️ John I would ask, flexibility in what metric? Like, as in,
⏹️ ▶️ John flexibility is where you can adapt to different scenarios. Most of the time, the way Apple handles flexibility
⏹️ ▶️ John is, back in the olden days, they would make an OS that worked for most people, and they would
⏹️ ▶️ John have accessibility options that allowed it to be adapted. And that’s flexibility. Okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John well, what if I can’t see small text? Well, you can make the text bigger. What if I have a problem with motion that makes me motion
⏹️ ▶️ John sick? Well, you can reduce motion. What if any transparency confuses my vision? You can
⏹️ ▶️ John turn on a reduced transparency, right? But that was the whole idea. Make one that works for most people
⏹️ ▶️ John and then have accessibility options to adjust. This is make one that most people,
⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t work well for most people. give them a slider and the slider doesn’t slide from
⏹️ ▶️ John works, what does it slide to? Works for even fewer people versus works for slightly more. No one wants
⏹️ ▶️ John to slide a slider to works for even fewer people. Like that’s not flexibility. Like no one needs that degree.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like in the metrics, like can you give me a slider that makes the interface worse and harder to use?
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, on the flip side of that as well, what if it looks cooler? This is a slider that does make it look more cool or whatever, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think that’s a, unless you’re gonna give full theme ability to people, which, you know, this
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of did with the themed icons on the iOS home screen and stuff. That slider is not full theme ability. It is
⏹️ ▶️ John just this one known problematic aspect of our design
⏹️ ▶️ John that makes it difficult for most people to use. And, you know, it makes the
⏹️ ▶️ John design, but the opposite of what Artmark was saying, makes it design more fragile, makes
⏹️ ▶️ John it not work in a lot of circumstances. We gave you a slider for that. And I feel like the
⏹️ ▶️ John only settings for that slider are default, whatever it ships out, which is what most people are gonna use,
⏹️ ▶️ John all the way to the right, which is make it usable by more people, and any other setting is like, why bother?
⏹️ ▶️ John The default is no one touches it, and that is what it is. All the way to the right is as good as you can make it before going to
⏹️ ▶️ John accessibility. And any value between or on the left or right of that is like,
⏹️ ▶️ John what’s the point of that? Like, can you even see the visual difference of it being 75% to the right or 25% to the left? Like, it’s just- It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, that’s the thing. Like, it’s not notched.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s just like a fully like fluid. You can set it at 17%. Why? And
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s kind of like the other, some of the other settings that I have in the OS, like the key repeat rate and stuff, where the main problem with settings like
⏹️ ▶️ John that is, people find that the far right or far left in some cases, doesn’t go far enough.
⏹️ ▶️ John So they hack, you know, on the Mac, you would hack it with a P list thing to say, I want the key repeat rate to be even faster. So you just set it to a value
⏹️ ▶️ John because the slider doesn’t go that far. So, you know, this is, this is real, a real punt for them because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not giving you adjustability that expands the range of scenarios where
⏹️ ▶️ John it can work. This slider can reduce the range of scenarios where it works, and
⏹️ ▶️ John when you go to the right, it can expand it, and as far right as it goes, I’d be happy for it to go even farther. So hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ John that slider will be gone at some point, like they’re working toward, I feel like they’re working towards getting people acclimated
⏹️ ▶️ John to the idea that you can’t see through everything. And again, this gets back to the rude idea of seeing
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff through the controls is not a good idea. It is not beneficial in any way except for aesthetically, and that
⏹️ ▶️ John is subjective. Like there’s no benefit to being able to see, like again, they showed like, oh, what if you had a horizontal
⏹️ ▶️ John slider in the music app and it slides into the sidebar? You can still see it through the sidebar. Why? Why do I wanna see it? I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ John read it through the sidebar. I can see that something is back there. Maybe if I memorize the color of the album cover, I might
⏹️ ▶️ John know what album it is, but like, what good does that do me? Like it doesn’t, it’s not useful. And that’s for a
⏹️ ▶️ John huge sidebar. Forget about things like toolbars or tiny buttons. Showing anything through controls is a bad idea because it makes
⏹️ ▶️ John the controls harder to read and doesn’t provide any benefit to the user. and that is the root sin of liquid glass. And they haven’t actually
⏹️ ▶️ John repented from that entirely, but they have done a bunch of stuff to mitigate it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and like some of the things they’ve done, like they have the, you know, now when you scroll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bar, or when you scroll content under a toolbar or a navigation bar, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if you’ve ever used anything before, it’s a pretty common pattern. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a frosted bar appears behind the bar To visually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco separate it a little bit from the content. Oh my god I think the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar is there all the time isn’t it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not when it’s at the very top well I guess technically you might not see it, but I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I think it fades out to try it
⏹️ ▶️ John out But yes, they rediscovered bar. You know what might be good appearance for a toolbar a bar
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s right in the name like why did they forget this they were so they’re so in love the idea of things
⏹️ ▶️ John floating on top Of content which again is a bad idea And so they’re walking it back in a whole they went farther
⏹️ ▶️ John than I thought they would do so first of all the bar on Mac OS That’s you know, it’s an actual bar
⏹️ ▶️ John now granted It’s a translucent bar But you can turn that slider up so it becomes a slightly less Translucent bar
⏹️ ▶️ John and a little bit better and that solves a lot of problems with the interface And if you if you you know
⏹️ ▶️ John actually purposely make the bar you can choose to make the bar look attractive Their way of making
⏹️ ▶️ John the bar look attractive is we still have to have the content show through it because in all their demos some beautiful
⏹️ ▶️ John colorful images behind it, instead of what’s actually gonna be behind it, which is something that is not beautifully
⏹️ ▶️ John colorful and consistent across the width of the bar, but is instead like one giant red square from a webpage
⏹️ ▶️ John or something, or that makes your toolbar look insane because it looks normal and then there’s a big red blotch.
⏹️ ▶️ John And you’re like, why is that button red? Oh, it’s not red. There’s some crap behind it. Like that problem still exists.
⏹️ ▶️ John In their demos, they make it look like a feature, but it’s still a bug that the bar is translucent in this way.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I guess you could turn on reduce transparency and turn it off entirely. hey, the bar at least solves the problem of
⏹️ ▶️ John where does the content end and the bar begin now? Yeah. Again, the content still is technically behind
⏹️ ▶️ John the bar. Someday the bar may turn opaque again and we have sanity restored to our interfaces
⏹️ ▶️ John where there is content and there is controls and they are separated from each other. Imagine that. But until that day, things
⏹️ ▶️ John are getting better. Thumbs up for the bar.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So quickly within Mac iOS and some of these are also applicable on iPad. Sidebars
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now expand all the way to the leading edge of the window. if you think about it, they were, there was a little, they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey were inset just a little bit. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John They were floating above, right? For no reason. Sidebars were floating above the content because literal, because
⏹️ ▶️ John everything floats above the content. You take content and you just drop crap on top of it. This is my favorite feature of the entire keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t, I could not believe they did this. I hated it so much when they did it, but I’m like, well, they’re not going to change that because it’s a cornerstone of liquid glass.
⏹️ ▶️ John Terrible idea. I hated it since day one. They actually undid it. Thank God. Then they had to go to the
⏹️ ▶️ John next slide and say, but don’t worry. Sidebars is all translucent and then your stuff can put still edge because the The
⏹️ ▶️ John margins just ate up space for no reason. They made the window like incoherent for like
⏹️ ▶️ John visual hierarchy wise, because like the toolbar buttons floating over the content. Okay, they’re buttons, they float
⏹️ ▶️ John over. Why is the sidebar floating? Why is it floating inside? It was just, it was so bad. So thank God for that.
⏹️ ▶️ John My favorite feature by far.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And it’s funny, like they keep, you know, one of the thing that’s in also in this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco area too, is like they fixed the corner radius of the windows. Now, Mac OS window
⏹️ ▶️ Marco corner radius, Like in Tahoe, there was like the default system
⏹️ ▶️ Marco radius. And that’s like, you know, new window or new API apps would have that. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then like- No, no, no.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve said this on the shows many times. People still get confused about it. You know what gave you the really, really big corner radius
⏹️ ▶️ John in Tahoe? Having a toolbar. And yes, being compilable in the domesticate. Having
⏹️ ▶️ John a toolbar. And no one ever guesses that because it doesn’t make any sense. Why should the existence of a toolbar in
⏹️ ▶️ John the window determine all four corners of the, but it did. That’s how it worked. The big corner radius was any
⏹️ ▶️ John window that had a toolbar and was compiled with the new SDK, right? And it was a liquid glass adopting app
⏹️ ▶️ John that had toolbar. Apps that had hide show toolbar, hiding the toolbar would change
⏹️ ▶️ John all four corners of the corner radius on the window when you hit the toolbar. They would go back to be smaller. And then,
⏹️ ▶️ John so that’s two. That was Tahoe, liquid glass with a toolbar, roundest. Liquid
⏹️ ▶️ John glass without a toolbar, less round. And then there was not liquid glass, the setting that
⏹️ ▶️ John says don’t adopt a new appearance or whatever, which was the old default Mac OS 15 thing. So you had at least three
⏹️ ▶️ John corner radiuses on Tahoe. And there was a couple more corner radiuses because of like custom windows and stuff. So
⏹️ ▶️ John yes, that’s not another thing I didn’t expect them to do. Not because it’s difficult to do. It’s very easy to do. I just didn’t think they would do
⏹️ ▶️ John it, but they did. And their, you know, applause, I’m sure they got applause in the room feature is
⏹️ ▶️ John just make the corner radius the same in every window in Mac OS. And also, by the way, make that value be smaller than the stupid
⏹️ ▶️ John Tahoe toolbar one. I still think it’s maybe a little bit over rounded because you know if you’re seeing an image You’re missing those little
⏹️ ▶️ John pixels that are on the corner, but thank goodness consistency has returned Sidebars go to the edge
⏹️ ▶️ John every window has the same corner radius that corner radius is smaller
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and it seems I’m just eyeballing it. I have it on my laptop here It looks like it now matches
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the corner radius of a Mac laptop screen So if that’s true because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if not, it’s very close, but if that’s true that makes some sense
⏹️ ▶️ John You know what the corner radius does not match the radius of the toolbar buttons.
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re right. Concentricity is dead, baby. It does not. It does not.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s why they
⏹️ ▶️ John did it. Oh, wow. Because that’s what when you had a toolbar and like they have the around a
⏹️ ▶️ John car is the concentricity. It was the whole idea of like it, you know, if you draw you make a central point and then draw the radius
⏹️ ▶️ John and that will be the edge of the toolbar button and then you keep going out farther and that is the radius that is the edge of the window. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s fine mostly but like this is one of the cornerstones of their making everything sort
⏹️ ▶️ John of capsule shaped with like Semicircular corners and to make that
⏹️ ▶️ John look nice It’s like well We need to have that that radius, you know as you go farther from the button the radius of you know
⏹️ ▶️ John It needs to match concentricity is what they called it, right and If you have, you know rectilinear
⏹️ ▶️ John toolbar buttons, you don’t have that problem, but they don’t so they kept the liquid glass semi-circular
⏹️ ▶️ John end cap toolbar buttons, but they also made every window have the same corner radius on the Mac and that
⏹️ ▶️ John corner radius be smaller, which means that it no longer matches the toolbar radius.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so I’m sure Allen Dye hates it. And when I look at it, I see it’s slightly less harmonious, but I don’t care because practically speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to see more of my content. I don’t want 17 different corner radiuses on my windows on my Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, part of any design is you have like the theory,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the principles and the theories that you’re trying to achieve, But then at some point, reality has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a conflict with those. There’s some trade-off you have to make where you have to sacrifice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the purity of your goals and principles for just pragmatic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons, or there’s some conflict somewhere that arises.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or you have to think that this goal I was trying to achieve was not a good goal. Well, right. Because
⏹️ ▶️ John the goal of concentricity is it looks nice and it is visually geometrically pleasing. But what is
⏹️ ▶️ John the purpose of Windows? What is the purpose of a user interface? the purpose of Windows and a user interface
⏹️ ▶️ John is to present content and controls so people can use software. The purpose is not to look amazing
⏹️ ▶️ John in screenshots and for you to be able to draw little circles on stuff and say, look how the corner raises. It has a
⏹️ ▶️ John job. Design is how it works. And so if you say like, Oh, I have to compromise my design. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John remind me again, why you were so dead set on these semicircular end caps on toolbar buttons. They waste space
⏹️ ▶️ John and they don’t look good unless you overly round the corners. And so we said, Oh, you have to, you have to back off from your purity of design.
⏹️ ▶️ John Your design was not to an end that was benefiting the user It was benefiting you because it made you feel good in screenshots,
⏹️ ▶️ John but that doesn’t benefit the user So thank God they’ve backed that out and now they have this awkward design where they
⏹️ ▶️ John kept the toolbar buttons because it’s hard to change Them that radically you’re not gonna make everything square edge at this point, but they fixed
⏹️ ▶️ John the windows So now they have this hodgepodge where it no longer looks good We’re still wasting a little bit of space in toolbar
⏹️ ▶️ John buttons, but at least they’ve gone in a pragmatic direction It seems every change they’ve made it seems to me that But
⏹️ ▶️ John whoever used to be there, who is not letting them make this obvious change, is now gone or
⏹️ ▶️ John has changed their mind.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, maybe this is a Stephen LeMay thing. Maybe it was getting rid of Alan Dye thing. Maybe it’s somebody else, but
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s because one half like now is winning the argument with the like the court of public opinion swaying the
⏹️ ▶️ John inside people. Okay, we agree. We were wrong to try that. Let’s let’s back it off a little bit, but we
⏹️ ▶️ John still have to wait three or four more years for them to do a new design that is actually both internally harmonious
⏹️ ▶️ John and actually designed well and useful for its purpose.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean what we have here is, you know, on the Mac, what we have is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something that has been edited. Again, it’s like a 1.1. It has been tweaked. The tweaks they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have made are largely good, but the foundations of it are still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco weird and not really fitting in the platform as well as they could. But that being said,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did, one of the things I noticed, like in my first few minutes of poking around on Golden Gate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on my laptop, one of the first things I noticed was this new button style.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like where they, where it’s like a little bit like glossier, a little more polished, there’s like a, there’s a border
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around some of the buttons. It actually looks a little bit like they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reinventing Aqua. Like it’s, it’s a newer, you know, planar version of Aqua. This is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s the Crystal Pepsi version of Aqua. But it is, it is getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco closer to Aqua. It’s very, it’s, and like, the buttons that they have now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the tweak to that is not subtle. You won’t, like, if you out there haven’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seen Golden Gate yet, the minute you start using it, you’re gonna notice, wow, the buttons are really,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, the toolbar buttons and all the windows really stand out now in a way they didn’t before. And it almost, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks a little out of place. It looks kind of like, all right, the toolbar buttons before,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we wanted to show off our glassiness so well that we made them too glassy and then nobody could really see anything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, the problem was nobody could see them well enough. So we took our glass
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just turned it up. Like we made it louder in the interface, like visually louder.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so what we have now is, now the toolbar buttons are like a little bit too,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they stand out a little bit too much
⏹️ ▶️ John now. Yeah, they have a little bit of the specular highlights and stuff. Although Aqua is a great example. Think of, Aqua
⏹️ ▶️ John was so internally consistent. It also, by the way, had buttons that had semicircular end caps.
⏹️ ▶️ John But it was all simulated, static, glossy. It looks like a translucent
⏹️ ▶️ John cylinder of blue, clear blue plastic or something, or clear blue glass.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing behind them ever showed through those buttons. They were 100% opaque. And the corners of the windows in Aqua,
⏹️ ▶️ John tack sharp exact squares on the bottom corner radiuses. Because the toolbar had corner radiuses,
⏹️ ▶️ John because no content was in the title bar. The title bar had corner radiuses, because no content was in the title
⏹️ ▶️ John bar. were opaque except for when the window was in the background, in which case they showed through the desktop and not the content
⏹️ ▶️ John behind them. And the bottom corners were squares. So you could see, so the content
⏹️ ▶️ John area had sharp corners. So you could see every pixel of the content in like the preview app or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever in Mac OS 10.0. But the buttons had circular
⏹️ ▶️ John end caps on them. How did they make that design work? They did that from day one. And they said, this is what it’s going to look like. And our
⏹️ ▶️ John buttons are going to look like pieces of glass. and our windows are going to have pinstripes and sharp, like, it was such
⏹️ ▶️ John a more coherent, sensible design than the hodgepodge we have now. And I think what you’re noticing, Marco, is like,
⏹️ ▶️ John how do we bandaid these buttons? We still want them to look glassy, but they have to be more opaque and
⏹️ ▶️ John people can’t see the edges of them. So let’s put a dark outline around them. It’s almost like they’re taking accessibility options
⏹️ ▶️ John and making the, like making them the default because bordered buttons is an accessibility option. And,
⏹️ ▶️ John but what you get by default in Golden Gate is like slightly bordered buttons because
⏹️ ▶️ John they were hard to see. And they can’t, you know, they can’t fix the design entirely because the design of like Aqua, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John had like the buttons stood out so much from the background. These buttons didn’t, and
⏹️ ▶️ John they had to make them stand out a little bit while still being glassy. Anyway, we’ll probably have more to say about this once we start loading the OS
⏹️ ▶️ John as Marco has used it a little bit. I haven’t even loaded it yet because I’m still working on a release on one of my apps and I need to keep this between
⏹️ ▶️ John a Tahoe, my other dev machine. But yeah, and the final thing we’ll try to do quickly, icons
⏹️ ▶️ John are off by default in menus. Mm-hmm. Incredible, incredible. I’m surprised they walk that
⏹️ ▶️ John back. We’ve talked about it in past shows. I don’t think icons and menus are actually a terrible idea, but their implementation of
⏹️ ▶️ John just said, nevermind, it’s a setting. It is off by default, which doesn’t mean there’s no icons
⏹️ ▶️ John in menus, but I guess the setting is, hey, in Mac OS 15, if there was an icon in the menu,
⏹️ ▶️ John there will still be in this mode. When you turn them on, all the other icons appear, but I feel like this is them
⏹️ ▶️ John basically admitting defeat and saying, developers don’t want to add these to the degree they existed
⏹️ ▶️ John in 26. We’re going to leave it off by default. And eventually I assume that switch will go away
⏹️ ▶️ John and those icons will just be gone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is it a user setting or is it just a developer API thing where you can say as a developer, this item
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs a label or an icon?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thought it was a user setting. I can’t find it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was an API set or an API thing, not a setting, but an API
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco thing. It is at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco least also an API thing. The only other thing I’ll mention is, So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sidebars now on the Mac, they got their accent color back for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey the icon. I was gonna bring this up
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too. Which is first of all, great. You notice it immediately and yes, it helps a lot because as it turns
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out, using multiple factors to distinguish things that matter in a user interface,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t just use shapes, use colors also. Imagine if you
⏹️ ▶️ John could have different color icons. Imagine that. We don’t have the technology yet, sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, the more you can communicate with people different visual cues the easier it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is to use these things typically. But the one thing they did, so they obviously also had to solve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the problem of it being difficult to determine what the current selection is. So what they’ve done is because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in Alan Dye’s design world, contrast is the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enemy. And so what has indicated the selection so far has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been in the extremely light colored sidebar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the currently selected item has a extremely light colored box around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. So what they’ve done in GoldenGate it still is a very light colored
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sidebar with a very light colored box around the selected item but now the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco font of the selected item’s text is bold. Now this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I see what they’re going for. They’re going for make it easier to distinguish. The problem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is when text is bold, it gets wider. And so now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have the selected item changing its size as the selection changes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is not the approach. Just have a higher contrast selection state.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco For God’s sakes, we’ve solved this so many times in interfaces.
⏹️ ▶️ John They can’t solve everything. Someone’s out there saying, but we could do the thing that we know works, but let’s think of something
⏹️ ▶️ John else. And they won that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco argument. But here’s overall though, Like with these design tweaks, what I want to see, I mentioned earlier
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that iOS 7 changed a lot during its beta period and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Liquid Glass did not. I’m hoping this year with this new kind of, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco listening to feedback and fixing problems kind of approach and with a lot less Al and Di in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the organization, I’m hoping that this will all be like a little bit tweakable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco during the course of this summer and fall. Hopefully they take feedback, They see
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this is a pretty good 1.1, you know, rough draft. I think it can be tweaked to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even better. I think they will hear that from a lot of people and hopefully this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again a rough draft not their new design team saying, all right, this time we got
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it 100% right and we’re not going to change any of this stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John One other quick thing they did is they they gave us a glass effects in the icons, which is useful, I think, because, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, that’s one place you want might want the cool effects Uh, and they, the icon composer gives you more previews
⏹️ ▶️ John of how it’s going to look in 26 and 27, which is useful because they changed how it looks. Um, and then the
⏹️ ▶️ John final thing is, I don’t know what the story on this and iOS is. I haven’t installed the betas, but I’m Mac OS as far as I
⏹️ ▶️ John can tell from people screenshot and reporting on it. Um, in Tahoe, the, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John well on the phone, when you look at like your home screen and iOS 26 and you like tilt your phone around, it changes
⏹️ ▶️ John where like the, the, the light highlight, like the specular highlight around the edges of the icon is like, it changes that
⏹️ ▶️ John as you tilt the phone to try to show it’s like glinting off the icons. In MacOS, I don’t think even on
⏹️ ▶️ John laptops they use it, but on a desktop Mac, the desktop map is not being tilted ideally while you’re using it, unless you’re on a boat,
⏹️ ▶️ John I guess. And so they had to pick a light direction for the icons in Tahoe, and they picked essentially 45
⏹️ ▶️ John degrees coming from the upper left going down to the lower right. And so the icons would have
⏹️ ▶️ John a glean on their upper left corner and a little glean on their lower right corner. In 27,
⏹️ ▶️ John have changed it so there is so it’s from top to bottom, the light hits the top of the icon and puts a little glint on it and
⏹️ ▶️ John also puts a little glint on the bottom edge, which I think it looks a little bit less awkward and a little bit nicer.
⏹️ ▶️ John But just FYI, the light has moved.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good to know. All right. So then they talked about how they they are optimizing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the parts of the system that make a big difference in the performance of our products. And this includes things that they can just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tweak timing on like animations. But also, they genuinely They
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said 30% launch improvements on iOS and iPadOS for launching apps because they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey preloading data and they didn’t say much more than that. Um, they also talked about one of the things that drives
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is when you take a picture and it doesn’t get sucked into the photo library
⏹️ ▶️ Casey vortex for like 30 seconds, 60 seconds. So, you know, you take a picture, you immediately want
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to send it to, you know, I say, I immediately want to send it to Aaron or something like that. And I’m waiting and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey waiting and waiting. and waiting for God freaking knows what, but waiting for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever happened that needs to happen to happen. And they specifically called that out and said it should be 70% faster. They said a bunch of other
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John things. And yes, from
⏹️ ▶️ John the camera app, we know you can tap on it in the camera app. The reason I do that is for the reason Casey said, is if you don’t tap on it when
⏹️ ▶️ John you see it in the camera app, you’re going to have to go to the photos app to find it. And that’s where you’re going to be waiting.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. They said a whole bunch of other things were faster. We’re not going to enumerate them all. They also said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that network transitions are going to be better, So it’s more seamless to go from cellular to wifi or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey vice versa. Also another change that is so obvious once they made it, but it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey never occurred to me instead of getting a like global or maybe not global, but a conversation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey global indicator of sending data in a, in an iMessage, you know, we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the top under the contacts name or whatever. You’ll see the little blue bar. Now you’ll get a little blue
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bar per message. Imagine that my mind is blown. You’re going to get one per message.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m being snarky, but like genuinely this will be very useful because so often I’ll be in like a grocery.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like this only happens in grocery stores and I actually don’t go into grocery stores often, but for whatever reason,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the rare occasions I do, I will try to send Aaron a picture of something and be like, Hey, is this specifically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you meant? And I’m just waiting. And then I, oh, then, then I will try to describe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with text what I’m looking at because the pictures and going through, and then that’s held up behind the photo.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it seems like that is all going to get way, way, way better, which I’m super excited
⏹️ ▶️ John speaking of scheduling things, you skipped over this before, because we don’t have any deals, but they didn’t mention the CPU scheduler,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they talked about what devices it’s going to run on. And they did not provide any information
⏹️ ▶️ John to really let you know what is different about the scheduler. But they think it’s better, so stay tuned for that in future episodes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who had CPU scheduler on their bingo card for the keynote?
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s state of the union, maybe. Yeah, so this is the platform improvement section. They did design, which is like,
⏹️ ▶️ John hey, look who last sucks for trying to fix some part of it. and then they do the part that, honestly, this should be, this kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John is, but should really be in every single keynote, or at least every single WWDC,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is, things that exist, we made them better. And most of the time in the good WWDCs, they
⏹️ ▶️ John do this, but this section was just about, oh, there’s stuff that exists, could it be faster?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we think it can. We let people spend the year trying to make a bunch of stuff faster and better. The network transitions
⏹️ ▶️ John is not a speed thing, even though it was listed here. It’s like, it’s an aspect of your device, and
⏹️ ▶️ John it could be better. So we made it better and we’ll tell you about it. And they should do that every single year. And I think they do
⏹️ ▶️ John do it every single year. Very often it doesn’t make it into the keynote but I’m glad it got its own section here. And this is the,
⏹️ ▶️ John they kept going. There’s more of this stuff. Like the next one was search, which is like, we know our search kind of sucks sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ John and we know users don’t understand why. And we’re gonna say some vague stuff to saying, we rebuilt
⏹️ ▶️ John the foundation of search. We don’t know what that means yet, but all we know is, hey, search has been kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of crappy. Like when the spotlight index doesn’t update when the spotlight indexer goes crazy and kills your Mac, or when you try to search
⏹️ ▶️ John for something on your phone and it doesn’t find it or it gets corrupted, you have to restore your phone. We don’t know the details
⏹️ ▶️ John of what the problem is, but I think everyone has experienced bad search on Apple devices. So
⏹️ ▶️ John them coming in the keynote and saying, we’ve rebuilt the foundation of search and we’ve architected
⏹️ ▶️ John the search index, cautiously thumbs up because the old one was bad. So I hope the new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope so. I mean, so I will, you know, so part one of this is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yes, I believe what they have said in their coded way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was we rebuilt like the whole like MDS worker stat, like the whole like spotlight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco database index thing, like that has been historically pretty fragile
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’ve had to do a lot of really weird things. In fact, just recently Craig Hockenberry blogged about how if your spotlight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco index gets corrupt on an iOS device, you basically can’t rebuild it. You have to like restore the phone or something. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a terrible situation to be in and there’s like no recovery process.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s why you can easily Google for like, how do I rebuild the spotlight index from the command line on my Mac? That’s easy to find.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know why that’s easy to find? Because it’s a thing that Mac users occasionally have to do and have since the advent of spotlight. And that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not a reliable system. And that’s another example of a system that’s like, well, you rolled this out and I’m sure you’ve changed it over
⏹️ ▶️ John the years, but like it’s certainly not getting better. and it certainly seems like it’s getting worse. Let’s just hope this
⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t another, was it MDNS responder or whatever? The thing where they rewrote
⏹️ ▶️ John a major component of macOS and then it worked so much worse than the old one, they had to roll it back.
⏹️ ▶️ John Let’s hope that’s not the case here, but on keynote day where I’m willing to believe that the new one is gonna be better and I’m looking
⏹️ ▶️ John forward to it because this is a part of all their platforms that needed to be improved, so thumbs up.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say though, the other part of this though is, so what they said was that when you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first run than any new 27 OS, it basically will re-index everything on your computer.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that is so far from what I can tell on my laptop, that is not only true, but also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about an hour after I installed it, I ran out of disk space. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now, and so I deleted a couple of, you know, I emptied the trash, deleted a couple of quick files that I had time for right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before the show, and I have a Finder window open, and I’m just, I have the status bar showing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just watching the space go down. I’m just watching it like tick down like 10 megabytes every few seconds, 100 megabytes every few seconds. Like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like 52.57 gigs and 52.53 gigs. Like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just 52.5, like it’s just going down as I’m talking, just watching it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fill my disk again. So I don’t know, I haven’t had time to check, but presumably that is the re-indexing process,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like slowly building up an index somewhere on disk. Or it
⏹️ ▶️ John could be a bug and it’s just filling your disk with garbage, but the good
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco news is the SSDs are really
⏹️ ▶️ John cheap right now, so.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly. And it’s a good thing they’re all upgradable on Apple laptops too. Right, exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good point. All right, I’m gonna try to pick up the pace and it’s not gonna work, but I’m gonna try. This is, I think, the second
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feature of John’s keynote. The more I think about this, actually, this really was your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John keynote. See, well, I’m excited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, so you got your liquid glass refinements, which we all knew you would, but now you’ve got another
⏹️ ▶️ Casey new feature, full res photos in shared albums.
⏹️ ▶️ John A miracle! I didn’t even know they could, could they do that? Do they have the technology to provide full resolution photos?
⏹️ ▶️ John You would think not, considering shared photo albums were just so long ago that they reduced res, like made sense
⏹️ ▶️ John from like a bandwidth and like storage space perspective. That was a long time
⏹️ ▶️ John ago. Thank goodness. Full res photos and also Windows and Android people can join in. So you can actually
⏹️ ▶️ John use shared albums to share an album without any of the caveats. The caveats used to be, well, of course you can’t see
⏹️ ▶️ John these unless you have a phone. Although there was a web view, which was crappy. And those people didn’t feel like they were really participating because they have to go to some crappy
⏹️ ▶️ John webpage. And I don’t even know if that’s still supported. And the other caveat was, but of course you can’t actually share
⏹️ ▶️ John photos because what if someone wants that photo? you’re like, Oh, can you give me that photo? I’ll send you the full res version because the shared
⏹️ ▶️ John album ones were reduced res. And I know most people don’t care because little kids
⏹️ ▶️ John take screenshots of photos and that’s how they share photos. And but like, honestly, it’s just it’s embarrassing. Full
⏹️ ▶️ John res photos and shared albums. Thank goodness. Happy about that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, very much so. Everything’s coming up, Milhouse. We I wanted to quickly mention that they mentioned
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cycle tracking now has support for perimenopause menopause, which is good that they remember
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John everything coming
⏹️ ▶️ John up me. I’m an old person married
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to another old person.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s like, um, there’s a custom EQ on AirPods. Uh, something for me, actually, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey panoramas on vision pro, you can now take a source that is a panorama
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it can be treated as like a spatial scene where they, they synthesize depth to it, which, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine, whatever. But. They said you can also use these spatial scenes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as environments. So if you don’t speak vision pro, if you recall, you can put yourself
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on like the moon on Saturn, um, next to a lake. I forget where the lake is. It doesn’t matter.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, there’s several other places. There’s 3d
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wallpaper. Yeah. It’s think, yeah, it’s like a 3d desktop wallpaper. That’s a very good summary. Thank you. Well, now you can use
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your own images as that 3d desktop wallpaper, which is super cool because I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey seen some incredible panorama, I’ve taken some great panoramas, heck I haven’t done it yet this trip, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of some of my favorite panoramas are from here at Cape Charles. So, you know, I could use one of those as my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey background. I could transport myself back to the beach, which is super cool. I’ve seen some great ones of like Disney World, for example,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if that’s your thing, because it is for me. So I think that’s really neat. It’s a
⏹️ ▶️ John shame. It’s a shame, though, by the way, that the this the spatial scenes that you’re taking are not 3D in the same
⏹️ ▶️ John way as the actual environments because the actual environments you can like crane your head over and look on the side
⏹️ ▶️ John of a rock that you couldn’t see the side of before. But that’s not going to work with the photos you take. So it’s but still like it for the purposes
⏹️ ▶️ John of like desktop wallpaper, if you want an image that is familiar to you and not one of the ones that Apple makes or the
⏹️ ▶️ John Disney makes or what are the other companies make? Cause it is actually a lot of work to make one of these fully 3d environment
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Super cool. Uh, then John you were kind enough to pull a bunch of things from the word
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wall. There’s a lot here. Is there anything you want to call out specifically?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Let me just go through them real quick. Um, this is another thing that’s my keynotes. I’m always looking for photos. One of
⏹️ ▶️ John my big complaints has been, you know, I spent a lot of time in photos on my Mac and the Mac photos app has had
⏹️ ▶️ John its feature count reduced for many years. Like they just, They took away a whole bunch of features when they synced it with iOS,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they just never really reconciled that throw the fork away. They didn’t take away all the features, but they
⏹️ ▶️ John took away a lot of the features. And when they took them away, I’m like, OK, well, I guess the feature set that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John left in Mac photos, I guess that will be the common feature set across all of their platforms eventually. But no.
⏹️ ▶️ John They just never brought stuff from the Mac to the other platforms. And the things that I use
⏹️ ▶️ John star ratings and keywords are two examples. Those exist
⏹️ ▶️ John and you could do them on the Mac, kind of like they exist in iTunes slash music, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they barely are exposed in the iOS version. But anyway, keywords. I put keywords on my photos. I have been for
⏹️ ▶️ John years and years. Those keywords are nowhere to be found on the iPhone. You can’t set them
⏹️ ▶️ John on the iPhone. Star rating, same thing. So they added them. This is in their word wall, so I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know the details of this. And when I say word wall, we really mean a wall of words. This was in this section of the presentation
⏹️ ▶️ John or like platform improvements. They said, also all this other stuff. And I screenshotted
⏹️ ▶️ John it and just copied and pasted the text, you know, with the OCR thing and preview.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. And so this is what I got from it. It says, start writing some photos, add keywords to photos and videos, expire
⏹️ ▶️ John your shared albums, which is a useful feature because sometimes you’re done with the vacation, you don’t want to be up there anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ John Additional participant permissions and shared albums, which I guess you can say, you can edit photos and you can add photos
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. You can react with emoji and shared albums. I don’t know what this one is, but I’m intrigued.
⏹️ ▶️ John Option to prioritize syncing to iCloud photos. Is that where I can
⏹️ ▶️ John this picture now. Faster to start uploading to iCloud photos. That sounds good.
⏹️ ▶️ John FaceTime is gonna have dual camera use, so you can show your face and the thing that you’re looking at at the same time, which will
⏹️ ▶️ John help. Will help when I’m trying to debug stuff with my parents. Notes has some new stuff. You can draw
⏹️ ▶️ John in notes in Mac OS now. Imagine if you could like touch your screen and draw. Anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ John Section links and notes, copy and paste as markdown and notes. iPadOS gets iPhone app resizing. We’ll talk
⏹️ ▶️ John more about that in a little bit. Hmm, interesting. An optional persistent menu bar
⏹️ ▶️ John on iPad. So you can have the menu bar show all the time. Undo and redo home screen edits at iPadOS.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s nice. I don’t know if these are macOS or iPadOS because again, it’s a word wall and I
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t tell, but they say, more consistent window positioning, persistent across external displays. Those are
⏹️ ▶️ John music to anyone’s ears. I don’t know what platform they’re even talking about. Is it iPad? Is it Mac? But yes, yes,
⏹️ ▶️ John remember where windows are on my displays. More high resolution, high refresh rate display modes for external
⏹️ ▶️ John displays. Again, is that iPad or Mac? Either way, thumbs up. More distinct active windows.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve slowly rediscovering the technology of being able to tell which window is active by distinguishing it visually.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know how to do it, but all those
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey now we don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ John Updated menu bar icons. What the hell does that mean?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Remove is that too?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think removing most of them, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John removing them. Not in the menus, menu bar icons. Like look in your menu
⏹️ ▶️ John bar right now, the sound icon and like, you know, like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not what they mean.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not in menus, menu bar icons. That’s gotta be what they mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the Siri icon’s different. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It’s that weird
⏹️ ▶️ Marco half wave thing. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Option click to secondary sort. This is just in the word wall, okay? But that’s just like, people are
⏹️ ▶️ John familiar with the old set of table views. You could like click one of the headers to sort and you could click to sort ascending and descending,
⏹️ ▶️ John but then you could option click one of the other headers to do a secondary sort. So you could sort ascending by album
⏹️ ▶️ John title and the option click the next thing by like year or something. Anyway, I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ John what that applies to, but I’m excited by it. I don’t even know what OS these are. Updated app icons.
⏹️ ▶️ John What apps? Did you change every app icon? But I’m excited by that because I didn’t like a lot of the Tahoe icons. So updated
⏹️ ▶️ John app icons. Independent alarm volume. That’s kind of like having independent alert volume, but it’s cool
⏹️ ▶️ John to be able to control that separately. Again, what OS? I have no idea.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, I just validated one that’s on here. Smoother scrolling in calendar. Nice.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s true. Oh my God, it actually scrolls like a normal app now.
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone mirroring has app resizing. Another interesting thing that we’ll talk about in a little bit. DRM
⏹️ ▶️ John video support in iPhone mirroring, which is nice. The word wall is huge. We’ll put a link to it in the show notes. There’s even more
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff there. Those are just the ones that excited me the most.
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WWDC: Trust & Safety
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, then we get to trust and safety. This is helmed by Assemble Desai, who’s VP of health.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They really hammered home a lot that safety features, whatever they’re about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be, and we’ll talk about it, were based on experts in research. They kept saying over and over again
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this isn’t, or they were hinting and saying in a roundabout way, basically, this isn’t Apple just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up and deciding what the best practices are for all these different things. they were going to the American Association
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or Society, whatever it is for pediatrics. They were going to all these other different organizations
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that at least at one point were reputable, who knows now. Um, but they talked a lot about children
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and devices a lot, a lot. And they talked about how you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey should have a child account for any of your children, um, that you are, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey acting as a parent of, um,
⏹️ ▶️ John do you know what that is? Is that an existing thing? Am I just behind the times? I don’t know what they were saying.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it’s an Apple ID where the birth date is known and known to be that of a child. I think it’s as simple as that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think it’s Apple ID, but they also said you can convert existing accounts to child accounts. So
⏹️ ▶️ John it goes to what Casey was saying. It was like, maybe you have an Apple ID for your kid, but it doesn’t have a birth date associated with it.
⏹️ ▶️ John So you can quote unquote, convert it to a child account by putting a truthful birth date into
⏹️ ▶️ John the Apple ID and then it becomes a child account. Anyway, this section, trust and safety, as Casey
⏹️ ▶️ John was saying, basically is about, I’m not going to say child restrictions, but about
⏹️ ▶️ John restrictions on the usage of Apple products. What would they what do they call this when they first roll through
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of like start really emphasizing this? It was like, like digital health or digital well being or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is very similar does have more of a child focus, but they have essentially overhauled every one of their features
⏹️ ▶️ John that lets you limit how much you or someone else can use
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s products like monitoring how much they’re using them limiting how much they’re using them. Again, some people use this on themselves.
⏹️ ▶️ John Parents use it on the kids and it’s Casey’s that they keep referencing these expert organizations, but they also emphasize
⏹️ ▶️ John that, forget the exact quote, but they were like, parents are in the best position to decide what’s right for their kids.
⏹️ ▶️ John Even that seemingly, uh, who could possibly disagree with that statement? Unfortunately,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a complicated world and there are, you know, kids who have parents who do
⏹️ ▶️ John not let them be who they actually are. And so giving them more electronic control over their lives
⏹️ ▶️ John is worse for those kids than when they had more like a, you know, I can secretly see
⏹️ ▶️ John things on their computer that was in the room without their parents being supervising them or whatever. There is no perfect solution to this,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I think Apple has had tools, digital wellbeing tools and parental control tools for years.
⏹️ ▶️ John And my complaint about them has always been that they don’t really work. Screen time has never worked consistently
⏹️ ▶️ John for me. It has always showed statistics that don’t make any sense based on what I know to be true.
⏹️ ▶️ John It the screen time statistics would never match from device to device to the same person. So what even is the point
⏹️ ▶️ John this device says you use this long this device says you use that long like which one is right? We have three devices and three different answers
⏹️ ▶️ John for everything and also the restrictions were so incredibly easy for kids to get around that It was just terrible so
⏹️ ▶️ John this entire section of the talk is we have overhauled everything having to do with
⏹️ ▶️ John Digital well-being and parental controls and we’ve added a ton new features and like a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ John things we’ve talked about in the past. I’m saying You needed to fix this you needed to overhaul it
⏹️ ▶️ John fingers crossed that it actually works this time. And if it doesn’t work, fingers crossed that you fix
⏹️ ▶️ John it until it does work, because they essentially left screen time to rot and it became mostly a joke among kids. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I know there are lots of downsides to this. I know that a lot of kids don’t want their parents to have even
⏹️ ▶️ John more control over their electronic lives, but on the flip side, a lot of well-meaning parents do want to
⏹️ ▶️ John have some kind of control and knowledge. They want to be able to give their kid a device at whatever age their friends get it while still having
⏹️ ▶️ John it be locked down or whatever. And the features they showed allow
⏹️ ▶️ John good conscientious parents to better serve themselves and their kids.
⏹️ ▶️ John They also allow bad parents to be worse parents, unfortunately. And that is the double-edged sword of technology.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think there’s also, we can’t forget the environment that they are doing this in right now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the world, in the political and regulatory environment. There
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a huge number of age verification requirements
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and regulations going into effect all over the world, all over the US. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are well-meaning, although in many ways pretty problematic. I was going to say
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it’s a- Almost universally not well-meaning. I think the people who support them,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who hear about it and say, that’s a good idea. I think they have well-meaning behind that. The
⏹️ ▶️ John supports them usually has good intentions. But the people who are proposing the bills absolutely do not. And the reason
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re getting voted for is the surveillance state. That’s what
⏹️ ▶️ John people want. So the people who propose these bills and the politicians who support them have terrible motivations.
⏹️ ▶️ John The citizens who hear about it and say that sounds like a good idea, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well-meaning. Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. Because when you hear something like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we need to protect children from inappropriate materials, like, OK, that seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. But then once you get into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what does that mean?
⏹️ ▶️ John By gathering information about every human on the planet. Does that sound good?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah. It’s like, oh, what if we take a picture of every kid’s face and store it in a database?
⏹️ ▶️ John And we want to know who you are and how old you are and your social security number. We’re going to store that somewhere and it will never be hacked. Don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worry. Yeah, don’t. Yeah, we’re going to store it. We’re going to have, let’s, hmm, maybe that’s a global identification
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system. Maybe, just for verification. Yeah, don’t worry. It won’t be in an S3 bucket.
⏹️ ▶️ John We just need to know everything about you. And these private companies are going to store it. And don’t worry. They’ll take
⏹️ ▶️ John care of that data. No problem. They won’t sell it to anybody. It will never get hacked. you’ll never lose it. It’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And so yeah, and what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco private companies and what are they getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John out of it? And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s just I mean, the whole thing is such a mess. And then then of course, you go into like, okay, well, in many in many
⏹️ ▶️ Marco places, you know, content is considered dangerous or illegal,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I think maybe you and I might not think is dangerous or illegal. Think about places
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where certain sexualities or gender identities are considered illegal still,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, that’s a very big thing still in the world. You know, it’s a huge
⏹️ ▶️ Marco battleground in so many places.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or even just in our country where some gay kid’s going to want to learn about themselves so they can’t go to any of those pages because
⏹️ ▶️ John anything having to do with anything that’s not heterosexuality is deemed equivalent to porn,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is ridiculous, but that’s how these laws are structured.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or gender affirming care. Like, if you think you’re trans and you want to like maybe read a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more about that or, you know, consider some of those ideas. You’re too young to know about that,
⏹️ ▶️ John even though you’re living
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like we’ve had throughout our history a lot of banned content
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in various ways, banned books, banned political ideas, and banned ideologies
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and concepts. And we as a society are not good at making good decisions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around that and controlling that uniformly. And so in the political environment
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we’re operating, getting back to the topic, Apple has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a target on its back, because so does every other major tech gateway company that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of these regulators and legislators around the world keep
⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying, well, you created this entire controlled walled garden,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that means when we want to dictate what people can do, we just have to go to you. It isn’t like, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, if you’re trying to like block something on the open web, it’s much harder. There’s a lot more parties
⏹️ ▶️ Marco involved. You have to, it’s kind of a game of whack-a-mole. You can’t really ever fully get everything. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re a tech gatekeeper on a lockdown platform, you can do whatever the government forces you to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do. So Apple has created this problem and put themselves in this position, but they also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recognize they are in this position. And so now, as all of these laws are either
⏹️ ▶️ Marco threatened to be put in place or actually are enacted around the world, Apple, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recognized we need to get ahead of this. And because you see what happens
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if Apple in their gatekeeper position, if there’s a regulatory
⏹️ ▶️ Marco upswell of some feelings around the world and Apple doesn’t get ahead of it, you end up with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like the DMA in the European Union where it’s like, OK, well, the regulators have decided that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your version of lockdown and app store control and fees and everything is anti-competitive. Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has decided not to even do anything at all about that whatsoever unless they’re absolutely forced to.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so what happens, governments regulate them and sometimes they go pretty far in that regulation in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways that might be either impractical, certainly undesirable for Apple for other reasons
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other than financial reasons, could hurt the product in various ways. Well, that same thing could happen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with all these age requirement laws everywhere and verification and everything. So in this case, this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is Apple, I think, trying to get ahead of that instead of what they did with the App Store rules, which was nothing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now they’re trying to get ahead of it a little bit So that way they can go talk to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the different politicians and legislators that are trying to enforce probably more draconian,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more ridiculous measures and say, look, we have done all the research. We’ve worked with these different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco groups and the American Association of Pediatrics and all these different, we’ve worked with all these people and created this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fully safe, proven system that addresses these needs and therefore you don’t have to regulate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us any further. Like that’s kind of the move here. So I think that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s why we’re seeing this now.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a parent who uses screen time for my kid, all of these improvements
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to screen time are certainly welcome because it is a really simplistic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and limited system. It’s- And easy to get around. Yeah, screen time, it’s been one of those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple features like I was talking about last week, where they kind of like did like an 80% job and then just never touched it again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like for years and years and years. So this is nice to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see. I see why they’re doing it now. I think it’s a good idea to do it now. And I trust Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do this kind of thing well, if it has to be done at all. Now, as John was saying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few minutes ago, there is the question of like, well, are there any downsides to this being done at all? But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the world is deciding on its own that they’re gonna force these kind of restrictions on tech platforms.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re gonna force this no matter what. So in that context, I trust Apple to do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it better than anyone else and in a way that considers,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, things that don’t follow the simplistic storyline better than anybody else, including things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, what if the parents, you know, what if parents are trying to keep down their gay kid? Like that’s,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s all those, or you know, what about like domestic abuse situations? There’s all sorts of situations
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like, when platforms talk about or develop or think about,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, permissions-based systems like this or access control systems, there’s a lot of those kind of, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco messy realities that they don’t consider and then that becomes a bad scene for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of people. Apple historically has been much better than everyone else at handling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that kind of breadth of concepts, considering all of these different cases,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and doing the best I can with them.
⏹️ ▶️ John Assuming it works, again, that’s always the caveat. Although I will say, I don’t think in this case this is going to save Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John Unlike the DMA stuff, the DMA is trying to make them do a thing that
⏹️ ▶️ John would be beneficial to everybody. Now the laws are trying to make Apple do a thing that is not beneficial
⏹️ ▶️ John to anybody except for, again, the surveillance state and people who want to own this data. And to give an example of that,
⏹️ ▶️ John all these laws that are being passed. That Apple doesn’t like, they’re gonna say, well, it’s well and good that you did all that
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple, but you know, you just ask people to enter their ages. Like you ask parents to enter their kids’ ages,
⏹️ ▶️ John you ask people to voluntarily enter their ages. What’s stopping them from just lying about their age? Because that’s, whenever
⏹️ ▶️ John you hear age verification stuff, well, shouldn’t we, you know, like kids shouldn’t be able to see things they shouldn’t see, so, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John but like, oh, why don’t they lie about their age? That’s where we get into the whole gathering your identity, because
⏹️ ▶️ John they can’t just say, hey, please enter your age here. Like, no, no, no, you have to prove that
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re 18 years old or 19 years old or 20 years old. You can’t just say it because what’s the point in adding a dialog
⏹️ ▶️ John box that says type your age here. Okay, 57, boom, and like anybody can type a number.
⏹️ ▶️ John They need to get your identity. They need to know who you are. You need to prove who
⏹️ ▶️ John you are. So what do we gather for that? A government ID, a picture of you, your birth certificate, your
⏹️ ▶️ John social security number. You know, like go through a verification agency that will gather all your biometric data and
⏹️ ▶️ John vouch for you that like, that’s where this becomes a problem. Apple is doing none of that. When
⏹️ ▶️ John you create a child account, an adult just enters, I have a kid, this is their birthday, that’s them. You can type anything
⏹️ ▶️ John you want there. I have fake children Apple IDs right now for kids that don’t exist for the purposes of testing.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing is like, that was Apple’s whole big point here. We consulted with experts and we’re putting it in
⏹️ ▶️ John the hands of the parents and the government saying, no, no, no, the laws we wanna pass say you can’t do any of
⏹️ ▶️ John that because then anyone can enter anything they want And Apple’s like, we trust parents, we trust our
⏹️ ▶️ John users. That’s the way we wanna do it. And these laws are like, you can’t trust parents, you can’t trust
⏹️ ▶️ John users, you certainly can’t trust kids. You know who you can trust? Palantir. Right, exactly. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the bind we’re in. So I feel for Apple here, I agree that they’re trying to do,
⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re trying to do is in general a good idea. It does have some scary downsides,
⏹️ ▶️ John but the much scarier thing are the laws that are being, and I’m just talking about US laws. Laws in other countries where people
⏹️ ▶️ John can be executed being gay is like, that’s a whole other ball of ice. Even just in the U S depending
⏹️ ▶️ John on what state you’re in, things are already pretty grim. So it’s, I think it is interesting that one,
⏹️ ▶️ John fully one third topic wise of the keynote was on the topic of trust and safety. And it was essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John all about digital wellbeing and parental controls. And again, it all looks
⏹️ ▶️ John good and it’s a vast improvement. What came before, I hope they did a good job implementing it, but I fear that
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not going to be enough.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. I mean, everything you guys said is exactly right. Um, it, it was interesting watching this for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, uh, because as Declan’s is Declan’s fifth grade graduation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of present and in some ways, in many ways, it’s a self-serving thing. Um, we got him an Apple watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I see this as his first like real honest to goodness device. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yes. And I know that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the new watch. Oh, yeah, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly. Um, but anyways, but so we’ve been, we, we’ve, He was using
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a iPhone that does not have service. It’s effectively an iPod Touch at this point,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a noisemaker in his room, just to do white noise in the background while he sleeps.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so we had done a little bit of screen time on that, screen time-related settings on that to make sure he’s not fussing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that during times he shouldn’t be. But now he has a device that is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey places other than his bedroom. And so we had to take a much closer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look at screen time. And I can tell you, it’s not very clear or easy to set
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up. It’s, it’s unclear how they really expect things to happen. Like none of it is very well done.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they went through in the keynote, you know, what, who, when, and how with regard to kids related things.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what content can kids see? Um, one of the big things they announced is asked to browse for websites.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in the same way that you have, you know, may I download this app, please? You can have, may I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey go to this website? Apparently this is turned on by default for kids under 13 years old. They
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have who you can talk to. And this is something that we were running into with Declan because we don’t personally
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for us, we don’t currently want him to have unfettered access to any contact
⏹️ ▶️ Casey under the sun. We would like to be able to vet the people that he’s putting in his watch to send text messages
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with. And as he gets older, we’ll probably stop doing that. But for today, we would like that. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s kind of very kludgy and screen time settings right now. And now there’s also a ask for permission to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey connect, which is really great because that’ll make those sorts of things much, much easier. Um, they also
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of flipped on its head or maybe not flipped on its head, but took a different approach to screen time,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, scheduling. So, you know, we can say you can’t use your device after, you know, seven or seven 30
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at night or what have you. Well now, uh, well, that is still true, but now you can also say, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, any, any, any app in the realm of games, you can have 30
⏹️ ▶️ Casey minutes a day, an hour a a day, two hours a day, et cetera. So they’re doing time allowances. This is when
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kids can have access. They do time allowances rather than a specific schedule. And I think some of this was already available,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it was an app-by-app basis. And now you can do it in a group basis. And I think that that’s very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey clever as well. And then how parents can guide kids. They said the words,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve completely redesigned screen time. You can pause device use entirely. You can also
⏹️ ▶️ Casey allow unlimited use. So there’s a very easy button right at the top, or a trio of buttons, pause,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey allow unlimited, and change schedule, because another thing you can do is get more robust scheduling. So school days
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are these rules, weekends are these rules. They also talked about how there’s a bunch of APIs available for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey developers as well to leverage with this. They did also mention that there’s a setup assistant, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically a Windows wizard, which I chortled about because it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very clunky, but also the way you set it up right now is even clunkier, so I’m actually kind of excited about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. And there’s also going to be a new child safety website, which they mentioned as well. So that’s pretty cool.
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WWDC: AI
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then we get to, I think, the final of the triumvirate, if I’m not mistaken, which is Apple Intelligence
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Siri. And one of the things that was said verbatim, I believe, is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some seem to be pursuing AI for the sake of AI. And I think that is extremely well said.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey As I said, I believe in the top of the show. I am very enthusiastic at this point, before we get to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the State of the Union, where Apple seems to be taking what I consider to be a much more Apple-y
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and much more effective approach to AI, which is, what are the ends we’re trying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do? And are those ends able to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey met by some of these new technologies? So they have a bold new architecture for Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Intelligence and Siri centered around you and the Apple products you use every day. Again, so far, so good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then they started talking about Apple Foundation models. Craig said, again, either verbatim or close to, this year we embarked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a deep collaboration with Google, leveraging the technologies behind their Gemini family of models. Together, we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey created the next generation of Apple Foundation models for our integrated Apple intelligence experiences, and adapted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey these new models to run on device and on servers using private cloud compute.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if you’re wondering if Google was going to get a mention or Gemini, not only did they get a mention, they got a very generous
⏹️ ▶️ John for on the Apple scale things mentioned. Together we created a collaboration
⏹️ ▶️ John between Apple and Google. They named Google, they named Gemini, they attributed this product
⏹️ ▶️ John to a collaboration, a deep collaboration with Google. I don’t think that was contractually
⏹️ ▶️ John obligated. It sounded like they wanted to say this. Some people were cynically saying, well, now when it goes wrong, I can
⏹️ ▶️ John just blame Google for when Siri tells you to put glue on pizza or whatever. But,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I could have gone either way on this. A lot of thought went before this keynote was like, well, they even mentioned Google
⏹️ ▶️ John all they just say it’s Apple intelligence. Again, there was that quote unquote joint press release many months ago
⏹️ ▶️ John that was only released by Google. I mean, obviously, I had Apple’s blessing because it talked about Apple in it. But
⏹️ ▶️ John that made me think like, oh, they’re not going to mention Google at all. But like, how could they avoid it? And they didn’t. It is a
⏹️ ▶️ John deep collaboration with Google. We’ll see how long this deep collaboration lasts again. They previously had a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John deep collaboration in 2024 with open AI, and that one doesn’t seem to be going as well. So but anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John for now, Google helped us fix our crap. Yep. Good. We hope. Good. We hope.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. So there’s going to be new more powerful on-device model or models,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey higher accuracy dictation, heck yes, better natural language understanding, heck yes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a new system orchestrator, personal context understanding.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They said that behind the scenes, Apple Intelligence used the spotlight and all of us went, but
⏹️ ▶️ John good one, the new one, not the old one.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Right, right.
⏹️ ▶️ John This time it works, we swear. Yeah, we’ll see. Well, we shall see about this. Speaking of the new
⏹️ ▶️ John series, by the way, there is a waiting list in the beta. So if you install the beta, it says, Oh, you want to use the new Siri? Join the waiting list.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I mean, obviously it’s the first beta and they’re still rolling things out. But just FYI, if you’re rushing to install the beta so you can try
⏹️ ▶️ John the new Siri, you’re going to be on the waiting list probably.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But at least you’ll be close to the top, I guess. Oh, and actually, can we pause right now? We do this every year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m going to do it again. I should have done this at the top of the show, but I’m going to do it now.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pull over, order your T-shirts.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the atv.fm store. No, no, don’t buy those. They aren’t
⏹️ ▶️ John the good ones. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For the love of God, do not put betas on any device you care about. Marco, I believe you said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you were doing it on an alternate device, if I’m not mistaken?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have it on my laptop and I actually just ordered a refurbished iPhone Air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco run the new models, like the high-end models. I want to test my transcription stuff with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco them. And the only iPhone that I own that can run the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big new models is my personal on an iPhone 17 Pro, and because it can only run on the 17
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I didn’t realize that.
⏹️ ▶️ John and we should just list the other devices while we’re talking about this. The new more powerful on-device models runs on iPhone Air,
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone 17 Pro, iPad with M4 and later. So
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s not a lot of iPads. Just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the latest Air and the Pro,
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And the Mac with M3 and later, and you need at least 12 gigs of RAM.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I barely made it in on my M3
⏹️ ▶️ John Macs. So if you have an eight gig Mac, that’s not gonna save you. M3 and later, yeah. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I’m assuming if you have a machine that is older than that, you’ll just get the older existing on-device
⏹️ ▶️ Marco models. Well, it’s based on what they were saying. It sounds like there’s actually two new model
⏹️ ▶️ Marco classes. It sounds like they made the foundation models better for all devices that could run them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before, which it’s like iPhone 15 Pro. And so it’s all devices that can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco run Apple Intelligence models locally before. I think those are getting new models. But then also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s like an even larger, more sophisticated set of local models that these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco higher end or newer devices are getting.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And if you know the Gemini product lines, you can probably guess which Gemini models are like
⏹️ ▶️ John replaced Apple’s old foundation models and which Gemini models are their new, more powerful ones. I’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple has tweaked them in whatever ways they want.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Regardless, um, they also said that there, uh, is going to be broad world knowledge,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey including going to the web. You can do app actions, which I don’t remember them ever having referred to it that way before, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe I’m wrong. Uh, also on-screen awareness. And at this point they trot out Mike Rockwell, the fixer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey who is allegedly going to fix new Siri and it fixed Siri to make new Siri. And let me tell
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you, if you are to believe the keynote and we are recording this hours after the keynote, we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey recording it on keynote Monday. We’ve barely had time to do all John. I haven’t had time to put any betas
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anywhere. Marco has barely had any time to put betas anywhere. Uh, oh, and that’s why I don’t think I ever closed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the loop on that. Don’t put the beta on any device. I think I briefly said that, but don’t do it. that you care about it. Not the first beta
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway. Yeah, definitely not the first beta. Maybe wait for the public beta. Exactly right. But anyway, um, we,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we, at this point we are in full, it’s all going to be great, man. That that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where we are right now. So, uh, take this all with, you know, copious amounts of salt.
⏹️ ▶️ John But, and so this, so this thing they had here was, as Marco said, it’s a dual shot, it’s a split screen on the left is
⏹️ ▶️ John Mike Rockwell holding his phone and you can see him from the waist up. And on the right is a hand holding
⏹️ ▶️ John an iPhone. And it’s very clear there from the second they start doing this demo. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John his hand. What you see on the left, the shot on the right is a closeup of the hand that you see on the
⏹️ ▶️ John left. You know that because when his finger twitches on the left, the finger twitches on the right. Like these are
⏹️ ▶️ John live, synced in time, real time shots. Now, first of all, setting aside, we’re gonna talk about in a second, which
⏹️ ▶️ John is the convincing everybody that this is not fake. Look at the angle he’s, I should put a freeze frame of this,
⏹️ ▶️ John but if not go to the thing. Look at the angle he’s holding his phone. He’s looking at his phone screen. he’s holding it
⏹️ ▶️ John so that it is facing him. And I’m like, where is the camera that is shooting?
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah. Like, you can see just out of frame, I’m sure maybe they CG’d part of it out, but just out of frame, there is a huge
⏹️ ▶️ John camera and lighting rig pointed over his shoulder at the phone to get what I
⏹️ ▶️ John think is an amazing shot of a real iPhone where you can read the screen where
⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t look like the phone is not pointed at the camera. I just, the staging of this, and
⏹️ ▶️ John they probably had him practice, Hold your hand exactly here at exactly, but it doesn’t, you could have him hold it like,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, he’s clearly holding his phone so it’s pointing towards the camera. He doesn’t even look like he’s using it. No, he looks like he’s using his phone and yet
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re still managing to get a shot. So A plus for whoever set up this shot, just
⏹️ ▶️ John on the logistics and the quality of the appearance. Now, Mike
⏹️ ▶️ John Rockwell is a human being and I guess they didn’t want to do too many takes of this and he speaks with his hands. So occasionally
⏹️ ▶️ John you’ll see his other hand fly up into the frame on the right side, which is another really human moment of just like
⏹️ ▶️ John they probably told him not to do that, but he gets excited and his hand moves and it appears in the frame.
⏹️ ▶️ John It is very human and very straightforward. Again, kind of like when Steve Jobs would have like the overhead projector camera
⏹️ ▶️ John pointing down at his phone that would be attached with a tether so it could show him the big screen. And he’d you know, it kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John reminds me of that. But kudos for doing that. And then finally, as we discussed at length already,
⏹️ ▶️ John they needed to do this to show you this is not fake. This is a real phone. We never cut away. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a continue, it’s a one-er. It’s, you know, I mean, they do have cuts, but like when he’s interacting with the phone,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is it. This is software. It is running on a phone. He’s talking to it. We are all to assume that this
⏹️ ▶️ John is not like a canned demo where it’s just like a movie playing and he’s pretending he’s using it. And we are
⏹️ ▶️ John convinced of that by the fact that sometimes you have to wait an uncomfortable period of time for the new series to do anything. And we just see
⏹️ ▶️ John the little spinner and we go, uh-huh. I guess is it going to do something? And he just stands. And again,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is a two shot that never cut away. He’s there and he just has to sit there. silently waiting
⏹️ ▶️ John for the phone to do. And then the screen comes up and then he says, his prepared statement, oh, now it has told me
⏹️ ▶️ John blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this was simultaneously both the most uncomfortable section
⏹️ ▶️ John of the keynote. And also I feel like potentially the most triumphant, I think I posted on a mastodon,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is Mike Rockwell either taking his victory lap. You brought me into fix Siri, I done fixed it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or it’s him going out there and saying, now it’s my neck on the line. This crap doesn’t work.
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re going to blame me
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re going to fix here, you got to go out there and show it working. And you know how you have to show it working a continuous shot
⏹️ ▶️ John of the phone in your hand and you use it. And that’s the only convincer. It’s like we can’t ship this unless
⏹️ ▶️ John unless this works. And and it’s it’s not shouldn’t be such a high bar because it’s like, well, of course, you can’t ship something unless it
⏹️ ▶️ John works. Right. But in this post WWC 2024 world,
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s such skepticism about Apple ever getting this to work. they need to do everything they possibly can
⏹️ ▶️ John to say, we swear, we swear it will work this time. And I’m still not, I’m actually still not
⏹️ ▶️ John convinced because I haven’t used it myself, but that’s, but they did everything they could. So kudos to Mike Rockwell,
⏹️ ▶️ John extra kudos to the people who set up this shot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And actually, uh, a friend of mine, Rob Ryan treated tweeted at Craig Hockenberry, another
⏹️ ▶️ Casey friend of ours, uh, that, and this is with regard to later in the keynote, but I presume it’s applicable here too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, Rob said, Justin’s demos were all one large take. Imagine how many times he flubbed and had to reshoot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the demo. So I would assume that’s true as well for Rockwell. Again, I don’t know this, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is intense. And I am impressed in like we’ve all three of us at some point during this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey episode have said, I think that’s exactly what they needed to do to instill some amount of confidence that this is not vaporware.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And they show the new look of Siri, which Germans like mockups, artist mockups were actually pretty accurate.
⏹️ ▶️ John One of the things I noted every time they showed the thing, especially on Mike Rockwell’s particular phone that he’s demoing on,
⏹️ ▶️ John when the big, like, dynamic island expands into this large, liquid, glassy blob
⏹️ ▶️ John where Siri does stuff with like an animation. Um, and it’s very clear. Like I don’t think the slider
⏹️ ▶️ John affects that. Like it’s very, it’s very translucent. It’s very transparent. It looks glassy and it refracts what’s behind
⏹️ ▶️ John it. And what’s usually behind it are the top corners of some icons on the home screen. If you’re doing it on
⏹️ ▶️ John the home screen, he’s got widgets. He’s got like the weather widget and the calendar at the top of the screen. If you can look at the screenshot
⏹️ ▶️ John in the show notes here, I don’t have the image list for us to put in the document, but if you just watch the video, you can see it. Do you see
⏹️ ▶️ John the little, the two little holes, the little refractory holes that it’s making in the bottom of
⏹️ ▶️ John the lozenge? Do you see them in the notes? Yep. What is that thing that we knew the name of when the 2019
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro came out? The thing that makes people feel queasy when they see things with lots of holes
⏹️ ▶️ John in it? Oh yeah. It’s giving me that. And it’s not just this. There was a couple other screenshots that
⏹️ ▶️ John did the same thing because it is so refracting and clear, it adds these artifacts that either,
⏹️ ▶️ John that look like it has like these weird sort of rotted holes in it, or it looks like an alien head or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. Yet another place where the idea that interface elements should be glassy and refract
⏹️ ▶️ John the things behind them, is not a great idea. Even when an interface element, the whole point of it is just to be the spinny, ethereal,
⏹️ ▶️ John rainbow colored blob. I think that’s ugly and I hope they fix that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what it gives to me is a flight of the navigator. I don’t know why, but it’s reminding me of the spaceship
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from Planet of the Navigator for whatever reason. Anyways, so yeah, so Mike Rockwell is doing his victory lap.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They’re now calling it Siri AI, which is Siri plus Apple intelligence.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mike said specifically, we know there are times you expect more from Siri. Well, no shit,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sherlock. Did you think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco so? Like all the understatement of the century.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In any case, they talk about a whole bunch of stuff. I’m going to try to blast through this real fast. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said it’s a more capable assistant, And they go through, um, like an exchange where,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, what, where’s Jeff’s new place, show me photos from near there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s not exactly right, but you get the idea. Um, it’s, they also talked about how the voice is much better
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and more expressive. Additionally, there’s a sliders like carrot weather style, where you can change
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not only the pace of the voice, so you can crank it super fast. If you’re like, uh, if you’re a sicko like me and listen,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey listen to podcasts at nearly two X, or you can slow it way down, you can also crank up or down express
⏹️ ▶️ John expressivity. I so wanted to turn the expressibility to max. I want to say, how far does that go? Because it
⏹️ ▶️ John pretty expressive. The one where it’s like, I’m so excited to read this sentence because I think it should be read and excited, but they never,
⏹️ ▶️ John they never moved the expressibility. They just changed the speed slider. I’m like, put that expressive expressivity to the max.
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to hear it. This
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like, yeah, that’s cool. Like new, new ways to prank your friends. Like go change that setting on their phone.
⏹️ ▶️ John Put it on slow, slowest speed, highest expressivity.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But then they said it’s more con conversational and they talked here about how you can swipe down from the dynamic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Island to search on iOS and search and Siri spotlight and Siri are all kind of one conflated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing. Now they use the example, which is really bold. They use the example of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what’s the schedule for the upcoming weekend of the world cup, which is the sort of thing that Siri of your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey would absolutely just crap the bed on anything sports related. It’s always wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey showing you Superbowl results from 30 years ago, whatever the case may be. Things that seem so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey eminently obvious, you know, like when is the football game today asks an American in series
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, Oh, you know, some British team is playing some other British team in three days or whatever it’s just preposterous.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, and then they have a whole conversation about how I want to plan a watch party for Brazil, Morocco, and they go back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and forth. And this looks pretty good. Like if we’re to take on at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey face value that this is how this works, I’m not sure I would use Siri to help me plan a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey party, but the fact that it is capable of doing that here is, I guess, actually to argue with myself,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is one of those occasions where it’s like, we don’t really need AI for this. Like I’m not looking to plan a party with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey AI, but I am happy to know that it’s possible.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, setting aside whether you want to do it or not, these, these demos, I mean, these demos are just
⏹️ ▶️ John demonstrating, look, it doesn’t suck so bad anymore. I can understand what we’re saying, but they always ended at least one step
⏹️ ▶️ John short of something that I think humans What I actually want to do is they would be like find the photos from last
⏹️ ▶️ John weekend Send some of these send only the photos with these people in them to this group chat and blah blah blah
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s just essentially demonstrating serious LLM power now it understands what I’m saying it no longer
⏹️ ▶️ John Embarrassingly gets wrong everything about what I’m trying to say it demonstrate the demo shows
⏹️ ▶️ John it understands me It knows what I’m asking and then it tries to do it But the place where it falls down
⏹️ ▶️ John and the reason to your point Casey why people probably won’t use Siri to do these types of things, setting aside that they don’t trust
⏹️ ▶️ John it because they think it sucks, is that they get to the point where it’s like, okay, show me the photos from this
⏹️ ▶️ John weekend, send the ones of my kids. Everyone wants to pick the specific photos. They don’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they’re not gonna say, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they show like two photos in the thumbnails and they’re like, I think it said like 37 photos. And it’s like, great, send. No,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re gonna wanna see, maybe you don’t wanna send 30. You’re gonna wanna pick the five that you want. Like human interaction
⏹️ ▶️ John has to happen or the thing of like, I’m putting together this plan. Does this look okay? And you’re like, show me the part where
⏹️ ▶️ John you say, actually, I want to edit that. Launch me into a text editor with this thing. Show me this as a file.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like the final mile, the last mile of like human interaction
⏹️ ▶️ John is either required or desired in many steps in this
⏹️ ▶️ John process. If you’re just talking it back and forth with the agent and you’re like, I’m fine with whatever you do, then
⏹️ ▶️ John your friends are going to complain. Stop using that stupid AI thing to put stuff into our chat because it’s just a bunch of slop, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Say what you have to say or show us the pictures you think are good. You know, and I and
⏹️ ▶️ John I get like I said on a past thing of like somebody who doesn’t know how to use a phone saying, oh, I just started typing to
⏹️ ▶️ John my friend about a trip to Japan and it prompted me to send the photos like that person does need that kind of help. But
⏹️ ▶️ John as a demo, as a general purpose thing, you need to be able to drill down. I know this is a version one point. Oh, we’re just glad
⏹️ ▶️ John if it works at all. Right. But every one of these demos, I saw the part where it’s like, well, now is the now is
⏹️ ▶️ John the part where the human’s going to want to make a decision. It’s like saying book me a vacation. Like nobody wants to do that
⏹️ ▶️ John as a real thing. You do it as a demo to show how cool your thing is. But no one wants to do that because you’re like, I want to pick my flight times.
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to pick my airline. I want to pick my seats. I want to pick my hotel. I like you want to have input
⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s your life, you know, and the difference between this and like a human assistant is presumably if you
⏹️ ▶️ John have a human assistant who is a skilled, you’re fabulously wealthy and you pay them a lot of money to know your actual
⏹️ ▶️ John taste and probably you still have complaints about it. But yeah, so these demos as a demonstration that Siri
⏹️ ▶️ John no longer sucks were convincing, but they were not convincing to me as a demonstration of the thing that humans are going to do with their phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is true of almost every modern AI demo. Like, every new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI model that comes out, every AI-based product, every company that integrates AI into their stuff, they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco always come up with these kind of contrived, weird demos that no one really does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or would do in that way. But also, Or if they did, their friends would yell at them about it. Right. But also,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s own keynotes have always been filled with these kinds of demos. You know, just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s been less sophisticated, but it’s been, they’ve always included some contrived situation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco often being performed by Craig Federighi that nobody would ever actually do. And also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you tried to do it, it wouldn’t work as well. Like, and this is the thing, like, you know, when I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was saying like Apple has a credibility problem with a lot of these areas, this goes back in lots of ways.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like even before, you know, AI and, you know, Siri has always been a big one, but even just stuff like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, the stuff they demo at WBC oftentimes does not pan
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out the way that they seem to hope or think it will. Things like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iWork documents being collaboratively edited, you know, where it’s like, well, no one actually ever does that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it sucks and everyone just uses Google Docs. A lot of this new AI stuff is, okay, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will people actually do this with Apple’s intelligence
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Siri, you know, whatever version of that we’re talking about? Or will they just bounce out to ChatGPT
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Claude or something else and do it there, because they’re better. You know, like there’s, this is like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is two different questions. Like number one, will Apple’s version of this thing work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and work reliably? And then number two, will it be competitive?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then will it stay competitive over the course of the following year if they just kind of,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of half-assedly update it along the way, or don’t update it at all along the way, which often is the case with Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco features. So this is a great set of promises.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The demos didn’t really tell us what we really want to know, which is does it work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and how well does it work? And that’s the kind of thing we will only find out with time. Everybody who’s ever used an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple platform or been near a HomePod knows like Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Marco over responds and under delivers. We have all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had pathetic Siri failures. Will this finally fix it?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I like to think maybe, but I almost feel like am I being naive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for even believing that it’s possible for Apple to fix it? Like we’ve been burned so many times. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they need to earn our trust. That’s going to take time. They might be on the path to do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that with this new version of all this stuff. I hope they are because I, you know, it might
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not seem this way all the time, but I’m rooting for them. I want them to succeed because I like and use their
⏹️ ▶️ Marco products. But we’ve just been burned so many times in these areas. What they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have shown today is an interesting concept. Will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it deliver? Will it be reliable? Will we actually be using all of these features
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a year from now? Or we would be saying at next WBDC, oh yeah, that thing we showed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up, that never happened. Or yeah, I used that once and then never again because it sucked. Or oh yeah, that started
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out pretty unreliable and now it’s kind of okay. Like, or are we gonna actually be integrating this stuff into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco our daily lives? Are we actually going to be using it so much that we don’t even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think about how unreliable or crappy it used to be? We don’t know yet. We, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have to see what happens. How this, does this actually ship? How does it ship? Is it good?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s, I feel like what people are feeling with this keynote, the reason why it’s kind of gotten a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mixed reaction from a lot of the people I’ve seen is that we can’t know that yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All we have right now is more promises. Let’s, let’s hope that they
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I do think the last mile problem is that maybe I think for next year’s a WWDC is like, even
⏹️ ▶️ John on the simple stuff of you’re not doing an interactive, you’re not planning a whole vacation. You’re not planning a party or any of these silly can strive
⏹️ ▶️ John things. Although I will say for the past can drive things. The only thing that was contrived about it was that all the person’s
⏹️ ▶️ John friends were fashion models and all the pictures were amazingly taken and everything, but anyway, this one is the contrived thing
⏹️ ▶️ John of like, no one ever wants to, you know, an agent to do all this stuff for them. But even for the simple stuff that you might imagine
⏹️ ▶️ John yourself doing, which is, you know, tell me when my slide is arriving, which they did not do this time, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s just an informational
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Even on that demo, my question would be, say they did that demo and it said, look, it works. And
⏹️ ▶️ John it told me when my slide is arriving. Can I copy and paste from that window? Can I, like, where is the last
⏹️ ▶️ John mile? Like, oh, I want that information. And don’t say like, oh, just send it in a message to blah, blah, blah. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John at a certain point, you as the user need to, at any point, you as the user need to be jumping,
⏹️ ▶️ John to jump in and say, Let me do my user things like that’s the thing about the other ones where
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re like, oh, I’m making a party invitation Some human doing the demo Would drag
⏹️ ▶️ John in the three prepared pictures of models for the thing, but they would pick them They would pick them. They would decide where they
⏹️ ▶️ John go. They like the human has to have some role here other than a You know
⏹️ ▶️ John offhand comment yelling into yelling to your personal assistant in the next room to do a thing It’s like do
⏹️ ▶️ John I not have a role in my life? Like I need to be able to jump in at any point and these black
⏹️ ▶️ John bubbles, these Siri conversations, you can go to this app and you can see your past conversations. Okay, that’s a start, but like
⏹️ ▶️ John part of I think the utility people get out of like the, you know, chat GPT web interface or whatever is,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just like you can copy and paste out of that window. There’s little copy buttons next to things. You can
⏹️ ▶️ John jump to another window and do another thing. Like the user is involved. And all these demos were like,
⏹️ ▶️ John your involvement is just giving vague directions in approving the things that I present to
⏹️ ▶️ John you. And it’s like, no, I need to be more involved in that. I don’t need to do it all. Like I need the assistant to assist me, but even
⏹️ ▶️ John again, something as simple as some information and it gives me the information. Am I just gonna look at that?
⏹️ ▶️ John I probably wanted that for something. So at the very least, I need to be able to copy and paste out of the window. Now maybe you can, maybe you can copy
⏹️ ▶️ John paste out of the window but none of the demos showed anything other than I talk and bubbles appear and maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John I press a yes or no button. And that I think is a non-starter. That’s the reason I think people like the chat
⏹️ ▶️ John GPU web interfaces, because it’s more than that, that you do participate in it. So I don’t wanna
⏹️ ▶️ John sound like I’m down on this because I’m with you, Marco. Like I want this to work and I think it can work and
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gonna be way better than it was before, I think. But the whole industry has a ways
⏹️ ▶️ John to go on the dream of like, it’s like a smart personal assistant who knows all your tastes and can do everything for
⏹️ ▶️ John you. That doesn’t exist. This demo doesn’t show it, nobody has it, it does not exist. Even finding human assistants
⏹️ ▶️ John to do that is really difficult. And people like to think it does exist and they like to do demos
⏹️ ▶️ John pretending this, but it absolutely doesn’t. And instead, what people should be doing demos of is,
⏹️ ▶️ John we know the limitations of this technology. Here are all the places you can intervene to still have
⏹️ ▶️ John a successful endpoint, to still have a successful party, to still send the five pictures that you
⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to send with the help of the AI narrowing it down for you and giving you the final choice
⏹️ ▶️ John in an interface that is not a tiny black bubble floating over the whole rest of your phone screen.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and what’s funny is, when they talked about serial macOS, know, they said it’s, you know, integrated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into spotlight, blah, blah, blah. And they literally said, of course, this is a Mac, so I can drag this window anywhere and resize
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it to see more. Hey, anyway. Um, so yeah, I, we’ll see what, how I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to page through our show notes and see if there’s anything
⏹️ ▶️ John Actually, I wonder before we move on from that, there was one demo where speaking of demos that they might’ve had to do multiple times,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it was their single take demos and stuff. The demo where they were doing, I forget what they were doing. They were doing some kind of Siri thing on the Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was showing cool stuff. Like you could multi-select files in the finder and then say, I want to ask a a Siri question about this and basically compare
⏹️ ▶️ John these and it makes a little table, like that’s super useful. Again, the less limited Apple’s platforms are, the
⏹️ ▶️ John more I feel like the integration of Siri can be useful because you can multi-select a bunch of files and
⏹️ ▶️ John right-click them and say, ask Siri about them. Try doing that in the Files app on your phone with your finger, good luck,
⏹️ ▶️ John if they even allow you. But one of the demos was like, and see, it even understands
⏹️ ▶️ John my typos, which if anyone who has ever used LLM-based chatbots and stuff knows, you can put typos
⏹️ ▶️ John in there, You can misspell words, you can fat finger things. It deals with it just
⏹️ ▶️ John fine because it’s trained data is filled with typos. And so it’s fine about that. It’s not like it has to spell correct or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John It just, it doesn’t matter. Did that person intentionally make that typo? I think they put like electrical,
⏹️ ▶️ John but they put like an X because the X is near the C key on the keyboard or whatever. Did they have to practice
⏹️ ▶️ John mistyping a word in that exact way? Oh, you just do another take.
⏹️ ▶️ John You typed it correct. Like, are they a touch typist? And like, it’s hard for me to intentionally make a mistake on that specific word in this specific
⏹️ ▶️ John way. But it reminded me of the Utah road trip where the guy was doing a Utah road
⏹️ ▶️ John trip demo of some like thing that was making like a, I don’t know, a slideshow or something in an old Mac keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the autocorrect got him, like they had just added autocorrect to whatever the rest was in. And it autocorrected,
⏹️ ▶️ John he typoed Utah. So it’s supposed to be Utah road trip was the typo. And the system autocorrected
⏹️ ▶️ John Utah, the misspelled Utah to it’s, I-T apostrophe S. So instead of Utah road trip, it said
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s road trip. And the guy had such a smack on forehead expression and like an upset face.
⏹️ ▶️ John And on the screen it says, it’s road trip. That was a meme for a long time.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then what Apple did was history eraser button that when they put out that video, they replaced it with another take
⏹️ ▶️ John where he successfully types Utah road trip. And you don’t get to see the eye go. Oh, I hope
⏹️ ▶️ John someone still has that original. It’s I think it’s probably in YouTube, the original it’s road trip thing. So this reminded me of that. It was
⏹️ ▶️ John a vague call back to it’s road trip. It’s like, see, I can do typos And it still understands me.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s incredible. Uh, there’s a new dedicated Siri app, which we all expected. They talked about visual intelligence
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a while, which mostly I didn’t think was that interesting personally. But one thing that I thought was very cool
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was they said, and this went by super fast. So I might get the details wrong, but that you can split a bill
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by shooting an image of like the, the tab, the check or what have you, and then I’m not clear
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly how I think Siri parses it. And then you basically somehow tell it, okay, well, Marco had this.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John had that. I had this and then it’ll figure out what the total should be and split it amongst all the people,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is very cool if it actually works.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s going to be real embarrassing when you do that and the total doesn’t come out for the total of the bill. All right.
⏹️ ▶️ John LLM’s are notoriously bad at doing math unless they have specific tool use, which hopefully this does. I do wonder like it will
⏹️ ▶️ John correctly split the bill. And then you say, oh, actually make Jim pay two dollars more. And then it starts when
⏹️ ▶️ John you start doing deltas. And then at the very end, you take those numbers into a calculator and add them up. Just check maybe that they
⏹️ ▶️ John equal the total. Otherwise, you know, it’s stiffing people. But, uh, uh, yeah, it’ll be cool if it works.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. You can write and edit with Siri, which I mean, whatever. Uh, I did think it was interesting though, that when they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey were just, when they were talking about making a document, they said you could describe a document in natural language
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and they said, Siri can generate a draft to get the ball rolling.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was interesting that they were making it clear that the implication was we’re not, we are not advocating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey necessarily having Siri write an entire document for you, but you can get the bones of it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then fill in what you want afterwards,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John which I thought was reasonable. I
⏹️ ▶️ John saw a lot of people online complaining about this because they’re like, who would ever ask an LM to write a thing for them? And
⏹️ ▶️ John as I’ve said in past episodes, I encourage people to write things themselves, but I totally understand
⏹️ ▶️ John the situations, the context in which people desire something like this, which is a context
⏹️ ▶️ John in which they don’t feel like they’re expressing themselves anyway. This is not a place for me to express
⏹️ ▶️ John any of my knowledge or opinion about anything. In fact, this is this is a place where I have to
⏹️ ▶️ John perform a certain I have to perform a certain role in a way that is satisfying
⏹️ ▶️ John to others that does not require any input from me. And in that scenario, there is only
⏹️ ▶️ John downside for me trying to write this myself, because what if I failed the performance in some way? So instead,
⏹️ ▶️ John I will have a machine write this for me, because honestly, it is not an expression of myself in any way. I know this sounds
⏹️ ▶️ John terribly dehumanized, But what I’m essentially describing is large parts of several real jobs
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco where you have to do this.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s where I think these tools, where the people who see this
⏹️ ▶️ John and say, yes, I would like to do that, that’s where the appeal lies. Now, I still think in those scenarios, these
⏹️ ▶️ John tools are still bad because the pros that they create is fairly easily
⏹️ ▶️ John detectable by people who are exposed to a lot of it as not being from a human. And it also
⏹️ ▶️ John encourages people not to proofread. and it allows them to just say, oh, just send it, someone else wrote it for me, I’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine. There are very few scenarios where none of your participation is required.
⏹️ ▶️ John For example, you don’t want to have the chatbot write a thing for you and then you never read what it wrote and then you just hit send.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s gonna end badly for everybody involved. But, and to be clear, I don’t endorse these features, but I
⏹️ ▶️ John understand why some people see them and desire them. And I could say, oh, you shouldn’t desire
⏹️ ▶️ John them because it’s bad, but I understand why they desire them. Because lots of scenarios,
⏹️ ▶️ John again, People are, people have to accomplish something that is not expressing
⏹️ ▶️ John themselves or their ideas or anything that they know, which is sad, but true. And so, I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John the real solution is don’t put people in those scenarios and don’t require them to do that. But I mean, this was one
⏹️ ▶️ John of the sadder parts of the keynote for me because I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can right click a document and it will write some crap for you. And it’s just like every bone in my body says,
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t do that, but then I understand why that feature exists. So it’s grim.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. They talked about apps and basically this is kind of like the grab bag section.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, Safari, uh, apparently they’ve been looking at your Safari windows, John, again,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything’s coming out, coming up, mail house. Uh, you can organize tabs by topics and then as you browse,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will automatically add new tabs into these, like, I don’t know, macro tabs. What I didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey get the terminology, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why you think this is for me. As I discussed the thing last episode, when we talked about the rumor of this feature, I don’t think I would ever use this feature.
⏹️ ▶️ John I got to manually arrange everything,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey but I know you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John have so many frigging tabs.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Maybe it’s useful to people if it works well, we’ll see. It depends on how they implement it. If they implement
⏹️ ▶️ John it in an automated way that it just happens to people and they’re it’ll either it’ll drive some people nuts where they’ll say,
⏹️ ▶️ John why does it keep rearranging my tabs? And everyone has to go and learn how to turn it off or it will satisfy some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. Safari lets you, well, we’ll let you automatically monitor a page
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a new feature called notify me as someone who, as part of my container or my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey collection, containers. I run this thing called change detection.io, which there is a hosted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey version. Um, but there is also a, a version you can run it in a container.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And what this basically does is, um, it lets you, uh, monitor webpages
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that perhaps don’t emit, uh, RSS feeds or whatever the case may be. It’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let you monitor for like things being available for sale that weren’t before their, their marketing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey website is pretty, pretty crappy, but I’ll put a link in the show notes. This is an incredibly useful tool
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me. Um, I think we talked about way back when that the reason I got a unify travel router, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by the way is what, uh, what I’m talking to you through right now, um, is because I had this thing checking like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey every 60 seconds on unifies websites, see if it was available or not. Um, anyways, that is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now a part of Safari or if you squint anyway, it’s a part of Safari with their notify me feature.
⏹️ ▶️ John as the far as far as you have to be running, you have to have a Mac that’s not asleep or maybe it works and sleep
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey question. I would
⏹️ ▶️ John And monitoring and and uh you bring this up Casey I think I talked to you about this a couple weeks ago because I wanted to do
⏹️ ▶️ John something similar uh I ended up just vibe coding something I was I was checking the menu of a local sandwich place
⏹️ ▶️ John to see if the sandwich see if their specials included the sandwich that I like that they rarely put on special.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is so this is big big Casey energy right here and I’m so proud of you.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah I was uh yeah they have a special which is an egg salad BLT which I thought should have been on their menu. Oh. Thought
⏹️ ▶️ John it should be on their menu
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco all the time
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s not a food that I have have a lot, like they put it on their menu like once every couple of months. But anyway, I kept missing it. So I’m like, I’m just going to set
⏹️ ▶️ John up monitor for this and I declined your Docker container and I was going to vibe code it
⏹️ ▶️ John But of course they had switched to some third party menu provider that it’s like a single page web app where the actual rendered page has like
⏹️ ▶️ John two tags in it and it’s all JavaScript generated. And so I had to find their backend JSON thing but their backend JSON
⏹️ ▶️ John thing is authenticated. So I had to find a way to fake the authentication
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so I could get an authenticated
⏹️ ▶️ John request for their JSON backend. And it worked and it told me when the egg salad BLT was available and I bought it recently
⏹️ ▶️ John it was disappointing. And so I disabled it. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, wait, the sandwich was disappointing.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’ve lost. Somehow the exile was bad. I don’t know if they put too much Dylan or something, but I was really disappointed.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I took I took off my monitoring. But anyway, this is obviously a I think if more people
⏹️ ▶️ John knew about this, like if it wasn’t just nerds, like vibe coding something or using a Docker container,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s going to change text. Now I think this could be useful for people. But I do wonder if it’s going to require them to keep their Macs from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is fair. And possibly the scariest thing that I saw the entire keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the internet was all over this. Passwords, the app can automatically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fix websites that have been compromised or where you’ve used the same password multiple times.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is incredible and also very scary. But I think it’s the right idea. I mean, I applaud them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going down that road. I don’t think I would ever use it, but that’s just me.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the only way they can do that, like the passwords app has supported since its introduction, I think the,
⏹️ ▶️ John uh, all of the various dot well-known URLs where there’s like, there’s like RFCs for this,
⏹️ ▶️ John where it’s like, if you have a website and you have a password system, you should support these
⏹️ ▶️ John endpoints, even if they just redirect. And it’s like slash dot W E L L hyphen K N
⏹️ ▶️ John O W N slash blah, blah, blah. Where it’s like change password, set password, blah, blah, blah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Um, and I think most sites just implement as Redux, but the point is a lot of sites don’t implement that at all. And I think
⏹️ ▶️ John the passwords app can only help you with websites that support these well-known
⏹️ ▶️ John URLs? I’m not sure because I just saw a keynote so we’ll find out when this thing ships but I would be terrified
⏹️ ▶️ John if passwords just tried to do it for any old website because if you’ve ever gone to any old website and tried to change your
⏹️ ▶️ John password as a human it’s hard to figure out how to do it a lot of the times. So I have very
⏹️ ▶️ John little because what they would present to you is hey you have five passwords that suck you want to fix all five and you hit
⏹️ ▶️ John one button and then magic happens and it and it updates your passwords on five websites. As a human,
⏹️ ▶️ John me updating five bad passwords on five websites takes me a long time and it’s frustrating. I don’t think a machine
⏹️ ▶️ John can do it unless they all support those.well-known URLs. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s see what else. They talked about how Calendar will have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fantastic house style, natural language input, which I am very much here for. I think that’s great. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it already had that,
⏹️ ▶️ John which was interesting. I mean, I guess- But now it won’t suck as bad.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Right. Yeah, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the thing. was very bad. Um, they said that when you are in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the phone app and if you are calling a business and I’m not clear how they know any of these things,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they will try to surface like relevant information. So the example they gave is, Hey, I’m calling, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say Delta to change a flight in Siri will surface your most recent flight information,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey including like a confirmation number or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or it will surface the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey If you have multiple flights and this is the most recent
⏹️ ▶️ John email, this is the danger of these agents of giving you just in time data like I like that it’s doing it. And in a demo,
⏹️ ▶️ John the most recent email it complains your flight number. But what if you’ve scheduled a bunch of different flights and they’re round trips and there’s different
⏹️ ▶️ John flight numbers and you’re on the phone and you’re like, yeah, my flight is one, two, three, four, five. Cause that’s what it says in the phone app, but it’s totally wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not that flight. It may require you as a human to go to your mail app, find the mail, look at the information
⏹️ ▶️ John in the mail and say, is this the flight or is this my wife’s ticket? Or is this the return flight? Ugh.
⏹️ ▶️ John Demos. Yep. Who would ever have more than one flight information in their email
⏹️ ▶️ John thing? Now setting aside whether, and we’ll get to this and maybe in the next episode, whether or not Siri
⏹️ ▶️ John can see your email, because what if you don’t use the mail?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is, that is very fair. Um, they talked about the home app.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And okay, sure. Like they said, um, one of the things that they’ll do, which is cool if it works, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m very skeptical that the crap home app and the crap Siri put together will somehow
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be a polished diamond, but here we go, uh, they said that they will basically coalesce disparate, uh, notifications.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So like, you know, uh, Michaela crossed into the driveway, went to the front door, walked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the front door, the front door was open, the front door was closed. That is all coalesced until like Michaela came home,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, or something along those lines, you get the idea.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the Google, the Google apps do this already. They do it themselves by just sending a single notification with a summary in it. But
⏹️ ▶️ John it seemed like the feature they were, I can’t tell if the future they were describing is that, Hey, we’ll take arbitrary apps, notifications, and
⏹️ ▶️ John then summarize them and connect them and condense them into one. Or were they saying now the home app apps
⏹️ ▶️ John more acts more like the Google app in that will not send 25 notifications. It will coalesce them and send one notification
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s a subtle difference, but you are right. And I’m not sure which one it is. It also said that they would basically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do, they would put together clips from compatible cameras,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is what they said to like make one event out of multiple perspectives. And then speaking of the whole internet,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the whole internet lost their minds about a raccoon. I think I was looking down and typing. So I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey missed what happened. What the heck is this about?
⏹️ ▶️ John Someone delivers a fruit basket to a house and it’s caught on camera from seven different angles and said, Robert arrived and save your fruit
⏹️ ▶️ John basket. So I guess it did facial recognition or whatever. And it’s always a fruit basket. And then he puts the fruit basket on the
⏹️ ▶️ John table. And then what I presume is a stunt raccoon or as many people said in AI generated raccoon, but it looked
⏹️ ▶️ John real to me, but who can tell a raccoon in the middle of the day probably has rabies comes
⏹️ ▶️ John up and crawls onto the table and gets at the fruit basket
⏹️ ▶️ Marco immediately, by the way, like
⏹️ ▶️ John with no delay, the raccoon was already there they’re waiting. Again, raccoons generally shouldn’t be out and
⏹️ ▶️ John active during the day. And if they are, you should stay away from them. But I wouldn’t eat that fruit.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also like I was, I didn’t quite know, like I was expecting the summarized,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the summary of it to then be updated to say, and then a raccoon came on the table or something, but it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t. So it kind of made the feature look bad. I think.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I think they were saying that the notification, like the same notification would update and show different
⏹️ ▶️ John content as new things happened, which I think would be something new because the Google app can’t do that. The Google app just sends you a notification that
⏹️ ▶️ John says three people walk dogs in front of your house or something, right? But yeah, maybe they just didn’t fit that
⏹️ ▶️ John into the demo. The stud raccoon is probably not a thing that will come up in your life. Probably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not. But for what it’s worth, Marco, one of the things they specifically did say was that the, and actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess that answers John’s question. They said that as new notifications arrive it will update the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey coalesced notification with new information. And to your point, I I guess it didn’t happen in this case. Cameras
⏹️ ▶️ Casey finally get 4K resolution. HomeKit cameras can now, or HomeKit secure video can now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do 4K. They did the thing that everyone knew that they would, natural language
⏹️ ▶️ Casey description to create shortcuts. They talked about image playground. And basically,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is all stuff that I don’t care about, except that you can now use photorealistic output for the first time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Remember, everything used to be very cartoony deliberately.
⏹️ ▶️ John And now it just looks like whatever one thinks of as AI-generated imagery. Like they, they, they did
⏹️ ▶️ John a, the little sample they showed you of like a bunch of thumbnails, you’re right that they do look
⏹️ ▶️ John more photo real than the intentionally cartoony ones used to, but they all kind of look a little AI. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John that was, this was another, this was the part where they put like the, the birthday person in an outfit and put candles
⏹️ ▶️ John on the cake and stuff. Right. Was that the section?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s the next thing. So, no, I think you’re right. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John I just. the the the novelty value of
⏹️ ▶️ John AI generated imagery has not had particularly amazing staying
⏹️ ▶️ John power especially since the models are still producing imagery that people are currently
⏹️ ▶️ John able to detect as having been AI generated if and when they surpass that and people can’t tell
⏹️ ▶️ John anymore I feel like the stigma will leave a little bit but right now I think there is kind of a stigma
⏹️ ▶️ John if you were to AI generate an image and send it to somebody, you’re better off sending them a
⏹️ ▶️ John terrible low resolution meme from 1997 than you are. AI generating a pristine
⏹️ ▶️ John photo realistic version of grandma on a skateboard on the half pipe, like the little thing they said, like the amusement
⏹️ ▶️ John value of that, I feel like is already diminishing culturally. But I think the upshot of this section
⏹️ ▶️ John is image playground. The images no longer suck. That’s what it comes down to, because
⏹️ ▶️ John image generation. Apple was massively behind and their new image generator is no longer embarrassingly
⏹️ ▶️ John behind. You can actually generate imagery that looks like middle
⏹️ ▶️ John of the road image generation from any of the contemporary products in this Apple demo. We’ll see
⏹️ ▶️ John how it does. But again, if people want to generate an image, are they going to
⏹️ ▶️ John launch image play graph? They know it exists if they know that it’s here on their Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think like is anybody going to actually use this stuff? No.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, for the people who are currently generating AI generated images, cause they amuse them, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John image generator they’re already using, I don’t feel like this is going to displace them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So then they did the photo section. You can enhance images in ways that respect the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey original moment. They said word for word, you can clean up, you can extend. So you can add
⏹️ ▶️ Casey space around the image. Pretty much everyone has a story about how they wanted to walk, including you, John, I feel like you’ve talked about this.
⏹️ ▶️ John I do use, I’ve been using other apps to do this for years. It is very useful. Um, especially if we’re doing wallpapers, like, cause
⏹️ ▶️ John tall and I didn’t want like my family’s faces to be covered by the clock. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ John always add stuff and there’s tons of apps to do this. Again, I usually use pixelmator or sometimes I use Photoshop or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever, but yes, this is a feature they should add to photos. I think it’s a huge thumbs up. The extend feature is great for
⏹️ ▶️ John being able to add a little background where you need it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Uh, and then you can also reframe and you can do a spatial reframing, which.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think as a technological case study or like as an engineering case
⏹️ ▶️ Casey study, this is so freaking cool. And I know that the people who are better photographers than me, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is almost everyone took some issue with this. And I will let you talk about that in just a second, but I think this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is incredible. So what you do is you take a photo and it doesn’t have to be captured with an Apple device. It can be just a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey regular photo from like my Olympus micro four thirds camera, and it will compute
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and figure out the depth that was captured in that that photo and you can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically move around drag the photo around to reposition where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the person taking the the the picture was within this 3D space. I bet
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you this is not going to work near as well as it looked on the keynote, but what they showed on the keynote was incredible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I really also liked that as you’re dragging around in repositioning things during
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the the interactive part of it. The areas that generative fill would fill
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in are kind of like the whitish blur. And so they’re not like computing it, of course,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as you’re moving things around, but you’re getting a very clear indication of how much of this image is about to be blurred.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think this is incredible if it even close to works. However,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do completely understand everyone’s complaints about this, which I will let either one of you, I guess, John, perhaps
⏹️ ▶️ Casey take over why this is upsetting to people.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it being upsetting to people, it’s just like, oh, don’t take your photos and like I generate stuff on them
⏹️ ▶️ John and just like let the photos be what they are. But here’s my take on it, which is, I guess, perhaps even more cynical.
⏹️ ▶️ John is that no feature can make people care about framing photos. That’s my take.
⏹️ ▶️ John idea that people can look at a photo and detect in any way that it
⏹️ ▶️ John is poorly framed, I think is false. I’ve done this from every other person who’s not a photographer
⏹️ ▶️ John in my life. They take photos that are incredibly poorly framed and they do not care. Not only
⏹️ ▶️ John do they not care, they can’t tell. They can’t distinguish a well-framed photo from a not well-framed one.
⏹️ ▶️ John They don’t care that their photos are badly framed. They don’t care that people have a pole coming out of their head.
⏹️ ▶️ John They don’t care that it’s 98% background that no one cares about. They don’t care that it’s shot up at an unflattering angle. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John for the exception of like people taking selfies where they’re trying to make themselves look hot or whatever, for the most part, when people
⏹️ ▶️ John take pictures in groups, I cannot convince anybody in my life to care how photos are framed. Now, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John great that this picture says like, Oh, let you reframe it like you said, Casey, like virtually change where the
⏹️ ▶️ John person might have been standing so that the you know, the pole isn’t coming out of the top of their head, because if you took it from two feet
⏹️ ▶️ John to the left, the pole would be off to the side of them. But just getting people to understand that it’s bad to have a pole coming
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re out of your head in the picture is insane. Now, you know what? The main thing that can make your pictures better
⏹️ ▶️ John with respect to framing is it’s called cropping and it is gifted for the life of the iPhone. Nobody does
⏹️ ▶️ John it because they do not know that their pictures are poorly framed. You’ve like cropping is the number one
⏹️ ▶️ John thing you can do to your picture You know again extending if you over if you actually got it too close that you can extend
⏹️ ▶️ John now So that’s a cool AI feature. But most of the time people like the opposite mistake. There’s too much background. You’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not centered the camera is tilted blah blah blah and people don’t care so
⏹️ ▶️ John I I think extend is the best feature here clean up as a second best to reframe is a little bit silly
⏹️ ▶️ John and is going to Make people ruin their pictures a little bit But here’s the thing because people don’t care about
⏹️ ▶️ John how pictures are framed if you show them that they’re like, oh, that’s cool And if I think about it for two seconds, they’d be like, well, how does
⏹️ ▶️ John it even do that? But I don’t see them driven to use the feature because like
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not solving a problem they have they’re like Well, it’s neat that you can do that and I get how it’s kind of like amazing and future II
⏹️ ▶️ John because how does it know? What’s behind my head? They can’t see it. Oh, it’s making it up with the computer That’s amazing. But
⏹️ ▶️ John the question they would ask is but why would I ever want to do this? I can already crop I can
⏹️ ▶️ John already extend I could see why I might want to use those if I ever wanted to touch my photos at all.
⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah, I think, I think Reframe, I know they’re excited about it and it’s the coolest tech, but I think Cleanup
⏹️ ▶️ John and Extender are the highlight features.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they, I mean, this raises some interesting questions that we’ve been fighting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as an industry for a long time now of like, what is a photo? Is it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheating? Is it misleading? Is it fake? Is, and I think everybody draws
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that line in a little bit different place. Apple so far, I think has done
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty good job of finding that balance with their feature set they’ve chosen.
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, I would say Apple, one of the things Apple does really well here is all of their edits
⏹️ ▶️ John are non-destructive. So you can always revert to original and that provides
⏹️ ▶️ John a level of surety about what the real photo is versus the edited that lots of other applications don’t provide.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely, yeah. But I think like where I come down on it, which I think is basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where Apple comes down on it, is like, I don’t think it’s great to have tools
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that can make photorealistic images of things that didn’t really happen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and pass them off as things that did happen. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be able to edit your photos to create a moment
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that really didn’t exist and was pretty far from existing, I think that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is questionable. and tricky. But like, if you are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using editing, whether it’s AI or older methods like, you know, photoshopping and tweaking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors and stuff like that, like, if you’re using editing to create a misleading
⏹️ ▶️ Marco picture, that’s morally questionable and that’s a problem. But if you’re using editing to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the image that you were trying to capture better, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still just, it’s still depicting a moment that occurred and these tools are just helping
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you depict that moment better, I think that’s generally fine. Now again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone draws that line in different ways. Some people, to some people, adjusting the color and contrast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of an image would be misleading and creating a fake scene that never really existed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco To some people, using tools like, you know, where it extends like this, where you’re creating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire parts of a scene that not only weren’t in the frame but might not actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco exist in real life that way, some people think that is over the line. Some people think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like it’s fine to delete a trash can in the background or a person who was walking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the background that is not really your subject. Some people think that’s wrong. I think I generally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco land where Apple lands with this and I think I think they have found a good balance so far of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the tools they have offered in photos editing to generally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maximize like the value to the person without too much fraud.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Uh, so I think that’s basically it in terms of features. There’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a few more things to talk about, of course, but any other features we want to discuss before I move on?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just, I’m, I’m really excited to get into all these OSs and just start using them because like all those giant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco word cloud slides they had this time. It really does seem like they had a really great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco goal in mind here of. Tackle every, every small thing, find a bunch of small
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff and tackle it. I love
⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea. And then I hope also that all of these new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco APIs that we’ve gotten for all the new AI stuff, I hope this enables a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of cool little improvements in apps. I think it can.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We will see. You know, the first-generation foundation models enabled a little bit of fun stuff, not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a ton. Let’s see what the second generation can do. There’s still a bunch of limits because they’re still on device.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The better models still only run on, as I mentioned earlier, like a pretty small number of pretty recent devices.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that could be a question mark for a while, but I actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that there’s a whole bunch of little improvements and some pretty interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco API improvements for us to play with. But as we were talking about last
⏹️ ▶️ Marco week about like reward versus homework, basically, It seems like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the homework side of it this year is pretty small. That’s awesome. Because that gives
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of us now, the ability to do to our apps, what it seemed like Apple was focusing on, on their
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps through the last year, which is make things better. Just overall, just a building year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s really nice.
⏹️ ▶️ John You tricked Marco into giving his final judgment again, but we’re still not up to it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Ah. One more thing about the Apple intelligence things, which they gave vague answers about
⏹️ ▶️ John and they had more stuff later, which is usage limits. There’s a question a lot of people had going into this, we forgot to discuss it on the preview
⏹️ ▶️ John thing, which is, do you have to pay money for the stuff? Because historically speaking, lots of the LLM powered
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff that we do, especially at the cutting edge costs money. There’s a free version of it, but the free version is not as good as the one you pay for.
⏹️ ▶️ John Is Apple going to charge money for some of these things? And here’s what they had to say about that. They said, not exact
⏹️ ▶️ John words, that daily usage limits apply to some features. This is a direct quote from Apple, like from the press
⏹️ ▶️ John release. Some Apple intelligence features, including image generation, have daily usage limits
⏹️ ▶️ John because they rely on powerful server models. Increased access is available with
⏹️ ▶️ John most iCloud Plus subscription plans, which also include Apple Intelligence support for compatible home cameras.
⏹️ ▶️ John So this is super vague, and this is really kind of an inversion of the industry standard for the past several years, which
⏹️ ▶️ John has been, hey, we have a new subscription for you to pay for, or we’ve increased the price of your
⏹️ ▶️ John subscription, but guess what? The new subscription or the increased price of the subscription, it comes with these AI features that
⏹️ ▶️ John you didn’t ask for. Apple’s doing the opposite. you’re already paying for iCloud Plus? Well, guess what? If you’re already paying for
⏹️ ▶️ John it, we increase your usage limits on a thing that you didn’t have before, which is the ability to use our powerful server
⏹️ ▶️ John models to do image generation. The bottom line is that a lot of these features that were shown here that are not
⏹️ ▶️ John running on device cost Apple money to run. And it’s always the question of like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John shouldn’t Apple just eat that cost and we get it all for free? And at a certain point, even Apple can’t eat it anymore. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John what do you expect, more than five gigs of free iCloud storage? No. So now that they’re gonna be running inference for you
⏹️ ▶️ John for free on their on their slash Google servers up to a point.
⏹️ ▶️ John And we just we talked about like the the I work apps had those ridiculous limits where you could do like make two slide
⏹️ ▶️ John decks and your usage was up. So we’ll see what the limits are. We’ll see where the rubber meets the road. But I do like the idea of them
⏹️ ▶️ John saying some of you are already paying a subscription. We you’ll get more
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff because you’re already paying us. And I don’t think there’s good. They didn’t announce anything that said, oh, and by
⏹️ ▶️ John the way, all your subscriptions are going up to account for the features that you may never use. So far, they
⏹️ ▶️ John haven’t said that. All they said is if you pay us, your limits will be higher. I give that a thumbs up.
⏹️ ▶️ John And in general, the economic reality of, oh, so you wanna do cutting edge stuff with LLMs? Well, it turns
⏹️ ▶️ John out that costs money because someone’s gotta pay it. And right now, we’re all sort of gliding on VCs paying for a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of it for us because these companies just get investor money and charge people to use
⏹️ ▶️ John it, but the price they’re charging is not yet potentially paying for what it costs to give
⏹️ ▶️ John out because they’re still in that growth phase. I’m not sure where Apple is on the spectrum. Like obviously we’ve gone over that. They have
⏹️ ▶️ John not spent the hundreds of billion dollars of everyone else does, but those servers and those data centers aren’t free.
⏹️ ▶️ John Someone’s got to be paying for that. And somehow that cost has to be paid by margins on
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple devices by existing iCloud plus subscriptions. This will be a tricky balance. And I,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, hours after the keynote, I don’t know where they’re going to land. Their statement is very vague, but
⏹️ ▶️ John in case you were wondering. Someone is going to be paying something for some things. It’s not all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, there’s a different side of the cost situation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, which is developers, it seems like now have access in certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco APIs to the private cloud compute models. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they said there’s like, if you get the first 2 million installs of your app, you don’t pay up to a certain rate. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then they just didn’t say what happens after that.
⏹️ ▶️ John There’s been APIs like that. a lot of the cloud kit ones are like that too, where like, Oh, up to some limit, it’s all free.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Weather works that way too. I mean, and there’s, and they also said somewhere around, like, you know, for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iCloud plus subscribers, they get higher limits, but is that for you and your app too? It seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it might’ve been. So I think there’s, this is going to be a pretty weird and complicated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pricing situation for developers for a little while. And I don’t,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, I would never make an app based on the assumption that I would stay under under that cap forever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would always have that in the back of my mind, like what happens when I cross that two, if I cross that two million installations mark,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what happens to my cost model that I’ve made this app based on? So, I mean, that’s-
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the way Apple has done it with their APIs though, well, I’m not sure about the Weather API, but the CloudKit ones, doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John that get charged against the user? Like it’s their iCloud account that they would have to upgrade if they wanna use it more?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco CloudKit does, but Weather doesn’t. So there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a bunch of- So what is this more like?
⏹️ ▶️ John Is it more like CloudKit
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or is it more like the Weather API? I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s gonna be more like the Weather, But they haven’t really given a full, and who knows when they’re gonna announce
⏹️ ▶️ Marco full pricing, probably not for at least a little while.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the weird thing about pricing about these services, like the things we mentioned, the weather API and cloud and stuff, I don’t think there’s been a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ John motion in the limits and the cost structure. Whereas charging
⏹️ ▶️ John for AI inference, that’s not a static pricing landscape in 2026.
⏹️ ▶️ John already changed and it is going to, because we get better at doing inference, but then the models get bigger. Like it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John the type of thing that Apple can set in stone in 2026 and just say, we’re never going to change this pricing structure because that is so
⏹️ ▶️ John out of touch with where we are with this technology. It’s changing from day to day,
⏹️ ▶️ John moment to moment. Like who knows where this will go? Could go massively up, could go massively down. The bubble could burst and
⏹️ ▶️ John everything could go up a huge price. So it could be a breakthrough and inference and everything gets cheaper. Like who
⏹️ ▶️ John could have predicted all the RAM and SSD price? Like this is not an area where Apple can say,
⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the pricing structure and then just never revisit it. I mean, they could, but it would be a terrible idea. So please Apple, don’t do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Please hammer. Don’t hurt him. Also, there was a couple of mentions in the keynote and then later
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a document on Apple’s newsroom. And it says from in this document,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey due to the Digital Markets Act or DMA, Apple will not be able to ship Siri AI in the European
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Union with the release of iOS 27 and iPadOS 27. Over the past several months, EU regulators did not accept any of Apple’s proposed solutions to bring Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Casey AI to the EU while safely supporting other virtual assistants. Quote,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re deeply disappointed that our EU users won’t have Siri AI on iPhone or iPad when we share our new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey software releases later this year, quote, said Craig Federighi, Apple’s senior vice president of software engineering.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Quote, our hope is to eventually bring Siri AI to the EU and we will continue to engage with the regulators
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a path forward. However, their refusal to engage constructively on solutions that preserve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey privacy and security means we do not currently have a timeline for Siri AI’s availability
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on iOS and iPadOS the EU quote. I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ John if there was another press release for China, but they didn’t mention in the keynote. Also, we don’t know how this is going to work in China and it won’t
⏹️ ▶️ John be available there until we work something out with the Chinese government. So this is not really any news.
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple continues to fight with the EU about all things related to its platform.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. I do think it was quite, quite funny. Um, I don’t know. It, it’s hard for me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have a reasonable and unbiased opinion about this because I am, I think I’ve been described
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the past as the most American American, which is not something I’m proud of these days, but nevertheless, I don’t know. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do think this is this is funny if nothing else, because it’s two, you know, unstoppable forces,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, approaching each other. And I don’t know. I don’t feel like anyone’s.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And this and this is like a lot of the past issues, like Apple theoretically has a point, which
⏹️ ▶️ John is to allow third party elements
⏹️ ▶️ John to have the same access that our alarm has would be a security concern on the phone. But then the use point
⏹️ ▶️ John is, yeah, that’s the whole point of the thing. Whatever access you have, other one other companies should have
⏹️ ▶️ John access to because it’s anti competitive. If only you can do the fancy things on your phone. How is anyone ever going to
⏹️ ▶️ John compete with Siri on your phone? Like this, this becomes not an avenue for competition because
⏹️ ▶️ John of your stranglehold on the market. Like and that’s where they meet each other. They butt heads, which is like, OK, the EU wants competition.
⏹️ ▶️ John And Apple says, yeah, but hey, we don’t want competition. We’re not going to say that, but we don’t want competition. And B,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s difficult for us to figure out how to give competition because we, as the platform owner, have such incredibly
⏹️ ▶️ John invasive access to everything. And we trust ourselves because we’re trustworthy, but we don’t trust these other companies.
⏹️ ▶️ John And as a consumer, you can like, well, I kind of get where they’re coming from because I wouldn’t want, you know, Facebook to
⏹️ ▶️ John have unfettered LLM access to my phone to read all my information and do anything they want.
⏹️ ▶️ John But on the other hand, I also don’t want the iOS and Apple platform landscape
⏹️ ▶️ John to always be limited by whatever idea Apple has about something. So Apple says, well, we came up with a solution. and we came up with this trusted
⏹️ ▶️ John platform thing or whatever, and it’s just kind of like the different browser engines, like we came up with a secure way for people
⏹️ ▶️ John to compete with us. And that is just a way, not just a way, but that is also a way for
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple to have a little knob that says, oh, if the competition gets too tight, just turn this knob. Because
⏹️ ▶️ John we control everything, we control the way third parties access the stuff that we let them
⏹️ ▶️ John access, and we control how much they access, and we control what they have to do, and we approve their apps, and
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re gonna force them to jump through all these hoops and, you know, like the third party stores will make it so onerous that no one will ever want
⏹️ ▶️ John to compete with us. That’s the cynical take. And the other take is, but on the other hand, you don’t want those things to have
⏹️ ▶️ John complete access to the phone. So, you know, no one is completely in the right here. Both
⏹️ ▶️ John parties have. Difficulty, I mean, the EU is trying to do the right thing, but
⏹️ ▶️ John not understanding the constraints and Apple is trying to maintain control while
⏹️ ▶️ John also complying with the law, and they’re failing to do that. They’re according to the people who set the law, say you are not complying with it
⏹️ ▶️ John And Apple can disagree, but Apple doesn’t make the laws. So this is kind of a bummer for the EU. And I’m not sure what
⏹️ ▶️ John the Chinese situation is there, but it’s probably even more grim and that maybe they want Chinese LLMs
⏹️ ▶️ John to have access to the phone to the same degree that Apple does. Yeah, it’s not a good situation.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just a repeat of all the other things we’ve had. And the upshot is people in the EU don’t get these features. So
⏹️ ▶️ John folks in the EU, we’ll try it out for you and tell you if it sucks or not. Yeah.
WWDC: Themes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that’s mostly it. As we mentioned earlier, there was no Ternus. And then at the very, very end,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tim had his personal notes, where he just basically said the things you would expect him to say.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then there was a music video at the very, very end, but we’re going to talk about that in the after show. Anything else
⏹️ ▶️ Casey before we wrap on WWDC 2026?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought that the Tim goodbye thing at the end was the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco perfect encapsulation because first of all like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know Apple we all know that Apple is you know that they release
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new phones in September and that the OS’s are announced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the OS’s ship you know right right before that like a week before that we know that but Apple won’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even say it they won’t say it in the video, ships in September. No, they said ships in the fall.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, everyone knows when it ships, but they won’t say it. Everyone knows at this point,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can see like we’ll talk about it in a little bit over time, there’s probably a foldable iPhone coming up, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple won’t say it. They pretend like it’s still a big secret and they uphold
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the secret. And that’s how they are with a lot of things. In this case, I think Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is pretending that this is not Tim Cook’s last event officially,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like to, in hosting. But everybody, and I think the only reason they would pretend that way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is because they don’t like to transmit their future plans. They don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like to say, look, we all know that even though we announced John Ternus was going to be CEO on September 1st,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we all know that the next event is probably going to be like a week after that. So they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco won’t say that. Again, everyone knows it. It’s the pattern they’ve kept for years.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I think you just called out the distinction here. The difference about saying when the event is because
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s unannounced. They want to keep their options open. Why would you commit to something when you’re not sure whether you’re going to hit that deadline? Who
⏹️ ▶️ John knows what could happen between now and some number? Whereas the CEO transition, they did commit to a date. They
⏹️ ▶️ John wrote it in the press release. There’s an exact day. And so it’s two different things there. I think the main reason they
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t talk about the transition, even though it has been 100 percent announced, is because it would distract
⏹️ ▶️ John from the announcement. Like if Tim Cook had said anything, if he had done a big heartfelt, this is my
⏹️ ▶️ John last thing and I can’t believe this is the last time I ever going to talk to you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that that would be there
⏹️ ▶️ John would be stories about that. And by being Tim Cook and saying a word salad doesn’t say anything significant. He’s sure
⏹️ ▶️ John that there’s not going to be a separate story about his statement at the end of the presentation. And so far, I haven’t seen one because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s impossible to write about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, yeah. Yeah. But so but but that is like by them not being willing to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just come out and say, yeah we we know that you know that this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim’s last event we’re not gonna say that everyone knows it including Tim and all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of us but he we won’t actually say it and then what we will say is you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you said standard Tim Cook fair it’s vaguely pleasant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and fairly content-free but I word salad yeah I I respect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what he was trying to do. Um, I, I, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, the, the, the iconography of him standing below the giant rainbow at apple park,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while he has massively kissed up to the Trump regime that has fought against queer rights at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco every single turn and continues to do so during pride month at that. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that that was a perfect. Encapsulation of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco end of Tim Cook’s reign.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. I think you’re right. All right. Well, thank you for sticking with us for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC 2026. We still have an after show and overtime to come, but I’m excited.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m excited. I know we’ve already done our closing remarks like thrice, so I will just say I’m excited. I haven’t done mine
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey John, close it up for us. I did. I did in the beginning.
⏹️ ▶️ John I basically gave the summary version, but I’ll just, I’ll just re wrap it up here because we’re at the end.
⏹️ ▶️ John Um, the reason I was so excited about everything that was shown here is because every single
⏹️ ▶️ John thing that they announced makes something better. And I know that’s a low bar. Uh, but it
⏹️ ▶️ John reminds me of the scene that I think I brought up on this very show, uh, in the past from, uh, the movie American history X,
⏹️ ▶️ John where, uh, the main character, who is a, uh, skinhead white supremacist Nazi kind of guy,
⏹️ ▶️ John um, is, I think he’s in jail at this point and something terrible happens to him in jail and he’s in a hospital bed
⏹️ ▶️ John and like this guy’s talking to him as like his advisor or or whatever. And it’s like he’s hit rock bottom. He’s at his lowest
⏹️ ▶️ John point. He’s a skinhead. He committed crimes. He’s in jail. He’s having a terrible experience in jail. He’s
⏹️ ▶️ John still unrepentantly racist and terrible. And his mentor or guide or whatever, his
⏹️ ▶️ John black friend, is trying to convince him, hey, don’t be a Nazi. It sucks.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so he’s on the hospital bed. And the guy says to him, has anything you’ve done made your life
⏹️ ▶️ John better? Which is the exact right time to propose that question
⏹️ ▶️ John of this person to sort of get some perspective and see clarity. And I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ John the last WWDC, part of the reason I was so upset about MacOS 26 in particular,
⏹️ ▶️ John but all the 26 OS things is it didn’t feel like they
⏹️ ▶️ John were making things better. They made a bunch of stuff worse for no good reason. And
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not so much the things they made worse, like broke the world. Oh, it’s unusable, blah, blah, blah. It wasn’t that bad. It was fine. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John you could get around with it. but like the idea that they would spend
⏹️ ▶️ John an entire year working on something that did not make their OSs better
⏹️ ▶️ John pained me at my core.
⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC pretty much every single thing they announced makes
⏹️ ▶️ John their products better. Assuming it works the way they say it does, but there’s nothing I saw that was like, Oh
⏹️ ▶️ John no, don’t do that. That will make your products worse. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ John they were helped by making things so much worse last year that merely
⏹️ ▶️ John improving on that, not even getting back to where they were before, but merely fixing some of the problems from
⏹️ ▶️ John last year does count as making something better, even if the state that it exists
⏹️ ▶️ John in the 26 OS is still isn’t as good as it was in iOS 16 or 17 or something. But it’s the trend.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s the thing when people complain to me, oh, you hate these OSs so much or whatever. They’re not that bad. They’re fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can use them. not actually that bad. The upsetting thing is the direction.
⏹️ ▶️ John Directionally, it is upsetting to see people intentionally using bad ideas to
⏹️ ▶️ John make things worse. And pretty much every single thing in this keynote was using good ideas to make things better
⏹️ ▶️ John by small amounts. And possibly they won’t work the way they were shown or whatever. But at least everything they were showing
⏹️ ▶️ John was and there’s a lot of it as we noted the word clouds, all the big list of things that they’re doing,
⏹️ ▶️ John like they didn’t even have time to put it all in. There’s so much stuff, all these little things, all the things that get the applause
⏹️ ▶️ John lines. I and all the things where Casey’s writing in the notes, like hell yes to caching on async images.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like developer stuff, they’re like, yes, finally, I’ve always wanted that API. I’ve always wanted
⏹️ ▶️ John that capability. I’ve always wanted to add keywords on my phone to the photos app. I always wanted to be able to extend the frame and not
⏹️ ▶️ John use a third party app. Every single thing in this keynote is making something better. That’s boring for people.
⏹️ ▶️ John But where’s my foldable phone? Where’s my VR headset? Where’s my, you know, M5
⏹️ ▶️ John Max Studio, right? I get it, I get it why people are not excited by
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this. this fall, we already shipped it, you didn’t like it, and probably next year.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but like, but just man, I love,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why I’m excited about this. I love that everything I’m seeing, and as I go look for more stuff, watch some sessions, learn about this,
⏹️ ▶️ John look at the documentation, I’m like, that’s better, that’s gonna be improved, that’s gonna be cool. And this is a very familiar
⏹️ ▶️ John feeling for me because that’s what WWDC always used to be like. It’s like whatever came before it, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John they announced at WWDC and all the sessions and the keynotes and all that stuff, it was like, Let me tell you all
⏹️ ▶️ John the ways that things are gonna be better. And boy, does that feel good after last year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s really well put, John.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you to our sponsors this week, Squarespace and Claude. And thanks to our members who support us directly. You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can join us at atp.fm slash join. One of the perks of ATP membership is ATP
⏹️ ▶️ Marco overtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week on overtime, we’re gonna be talking about some updates
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are popping up about the foldable iPhone. We’re gonna be covering that in overtime because we just couldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cram it into this episode. Join now to listen at.fm slash join. Thanks everybody, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll talk to you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, oh it was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental And you can find the
⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at atp.fm And if you’re into
⏹️ ▶️ John Mastodon, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Auntie Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean to Accidental Check podcasts so long
Callsheet is famous
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Casey, you’re famous. This is amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if I would go quite that far. But it was a very unusual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey end of the keynote. So I’m sitting there and the state of the world for me was I was in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the main living area of the house that we’re staying in. And I was watching the keynote on the TV because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m me. I brought an ancient Apple TV with me. And I’m watching the keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the TV, I’m typing out notes and on my laptop and I’m starting to send a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey text to Aaron as Tim is up saying, Hey, the three of you, you know, the three of them were at the beach, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, maybe I can pop down for a little bit before the state of the union. I think it’s ending now.
⏹️ ▶️ John You didn’t see my message before you left.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, so right as I send that all of a sudden Tyler Stallman
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Jason Snell both send me text at like the exact same moment. Tyler’s was two exclamation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey points and Jason’s was call sheet in the keynote. And that’s all I knew.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And, and, and I don’t understand because they’re like a minute to two before
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me because they’re in the audience and I don’t understand how this is possible. I assumed that I missed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something. Yeah, right. At this point it’s over. I just told Aaron, I’m going to come down to the beach.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I was like 10 seconds ahead of you, which is why I knew I was, I knew I was seeing it before you did. So I I immediately
⏹️ ▶️ John typed into the window so you would see it. But at that point, I think you’d already gotten up and left.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Usually the Apple TV stream is like, uh, is like, you know, 10 or 15 seconds behind the online stream,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which itself is, you know, probably a good minute behind the in-person stream. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I got the info from live people too. The reason I had it faster, much faster than you is I got it from a live person.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in any case, so I get out my phone and I am so sad because I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tyler said it to me, but I didn’t notice until it was all over. Um, Oh yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Tyler sends the two exclamation points, to which I replied with an ellipsis and a question mark. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey he sends a photo of the presentation. But at this point,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of course, it had long since moved on. And so I see something. Like, the screen is fairly far away from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey him. And I see that there’s some gentleman in a couple of round wrecks on the screen. And Tyler asks, are you watching?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I said, I’m seeing Tim doing his wrap-up, to which he said, but I didn’t see this until after, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey keep watching. Record it and your reaction, which I so deeply I’d seen that because that’s what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I should have done. But in the heat of the moment, as my heart rate is spiking, because I don’t know what’s about to happen, but apparently
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something’s going down, I take out my phone and I record the TV, because I don’t know what else to do. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in retrospect, I should have recorded myself, but whatever. And I record the TV. And all of a sudden,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey after Tim fades out, they have appreciation by, was it Eric,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the architect, I believe? So there’s this guy standing in what vaguely looks like an office-y kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of reception-y area. And he starts wrapping all I need is good reads and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some better sleep. And you start seeing these app icons pop up. I keep it calm. So these drafts
⏹️ ▶️ Casey stay in call sheet. And
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey, can you put drafts in call sheet?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, not Greg Pierce’s drafts, no. But I don’t f**king care because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this was one of the coolest things I have had happen to me in a fairly long time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because there on the Apple keynote, admittedly, after it was kind of sort of over, but on the Apple keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is Jelly’s icon for call sheet floating in space and approaching
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera a little bit, or I guess the camera was approaching it. Um, which, which I didn’t even know
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what to do with myself. You know, I’m like, my heart is racing at this point. My phone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is exploding. I am getting text messages from any
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple, any vague Apple person in my life. Like if you are even vaguely aware of Apple enough
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to watch the keynote, Every one of them sent me a text and they were all very kind and very excited. It was so, so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wonderful. Um, and I’m, and I’m trying to process this all. Meanwhile,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m calling Aaron and she’s on the beach. As far as she knows, I’m about to walk down to the beach potentially.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I said, call, she was in the keynote and she was like, wait, what? Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t, and I don’t remember what words I said to her, but I would presume that approximately none of them made
⏹️ ▶️ Casey any sense and I’m not gonna put her on the spot and get her on the mic, uh, because that would be way too awkward. But suffice
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to say, I think I made almost no sense. And she’s like, well, just stay there and handle whatever’s going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on there. And we’re going to, we were actually probably going to come up anyway, so we’ll be up in a few minutes. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I get through all my text messages and then I look at, um, at Indigo, which is, you know, my, my,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my, the, the multi-platform app that I’m using these days and my mentions are a dumpster fire, but for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first time in a long time, In a good way, which was a welcome change. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, this was extremely cool and extremely unexpected. And I think perhaps the funniest bit of this whole thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey leaving aside the fact that we were not given the nod for the keynote, and yet here I am in the keynote, but whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or we were not given the nod to attend WWDC. But here, here my app is in the keynote. But beyond that,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jelly zoomed in a little bit. And Jelly noticed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the version of the icon they used is the one that actually has the hunt for October on it and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and john mcternan and the release date and so on. At one point, Like a year, a year
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and a half ago, they had reached out, Apple had reached out to me and it said in so many words,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you have rights for this in like, or you’re like, is this kosher? And I was like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. So I had jelly whipped together an alternative version. They never asked me why. And I actually don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think it related to this. They never asked me why they wanted or wanted this information, but I said, well, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not sure if it’s a hundred percent on the up and up to be. And I forget how I phrased it, but I’m not sure it’s a hundred percent on the up and up. But here’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a different version of it. And I think off the top of my head, it’s like the hunt or the search for blue October
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the director listed as K, K-A-Y, C-L-I-S, C-E-L-I-S, which was 100%
⏹️ ▶️ Casey jelly. It was incredible. So it’s directed by KC Lis. And anyways, and so I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey made, I think that might even be the default app icon now. I haven’t thought about icons in a while, but they had this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey alternative completely fabricated version. The one that they used in the keynote video says this is 100 October
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco McTiernan, which I think is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. But anyways, this was a completely surreal experience. I’m still not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey entirely sure what to make of it. And like, you know, because I’m me, in the one moment, I’m like, man,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really did make it. I really did it. Look at I really, you know, Joe, we did it, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is what I said to Jelly. You know, Joe, we did it. We did it. But then 10 seconds later, I’m like, oh, they just needed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the right thing to rhyme with drafts or to rhyme with whatever it was.
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought you were going to say, well, where’s the call to action?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I have to. I have to tap on that to buy my thing. This is great. Exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey turn into sales? Probably not. But it’s so funny that, you know, my natural inclination
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is to just go from better sleep and call sheet, I guess, or were vaguely rhymey.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m assuming that that’s why they used my app is not because they feel like it’s good or anything like that, or they enjoyed the icon.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just, oh, we needed something to rhyme with better sleep.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, they they think it’s good. Like there is there are lots of apps in the app store that honestly would have been a closer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rhyme. Right? So no, just take this for what it is. It’s cool. It’s an honor
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, your app has been featured, right? Yeah, yeah. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey like I’m assuming
⏹️ ▶️ John they were pulling from the apps that they had already editorially determined that are apps they like.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I think that’s right. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it was it was wild, to say the least. I’m very appreciative and very thankful. Now, the other thing I noticed later
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on, after I like watched it for the 18th time, um, toward the end of this, like music video
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing. Uh, what is Eric, the architect, I think is the gentleman’s name is standing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a room and is holding what appear to be like foot one foot by one foot. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, like printouts, if you will, of these app icons and it’s kind of like throwing them in, you know, and whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me be clear. I don’t know that they ever printed one for call sheet. I never saw like one of these physical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey objects for all I know, maybe it was CGI. anyway. If this exists,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will give a testicle to have this in my house. Like I will do whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it takes if this thing is real.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, you could probably get one made.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yes, but that’s not the same. The real one. It’s like you have to get the one from the video. It’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John the object itself. It’s not the thing. It’s its provenance. That’s it’s exactly it. But well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, yeah, and I would I would assume they’re composited, but it would be really cool if they weren’t. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John exactly right. No, I think they printed. I think that I mean, obviously, most of them are CG, but I think they probably had physical ones too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Well, again, I don’t, but yours was one of the ones that
⏹️ ▶️ John I only saw in CG. Exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Right. Although we should
⏹️ ▶️ John look at that big pile to see if Grok is in that pile on the floor.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And we should also trust
⏹️ ▶️ John and safety. We forgot to mention that trust and safety section.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey They’re all this
⏹️ ▶️ John big about safety for children, except when it comes to potentially banning Elon Musk’s app that is used to take
⏹️ ▶️ John clothes off children.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. It it’s, it’s, it’s something else, but also in the video, we mentioned, you know, Greg Pearson drafts, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Curtis and Slopes was in it. And I feel like some of our other friends were in there at some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way at some point, but it was so wild and so cool. And we’ll put a link to the music video in the show notes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It comes at the very, very end of the keynote after Tim’s outro or what have you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I am so, you know, it’s one of those pinch, pinch yourself moments. Like did that, did that just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happen? Was that real? And it’s very, very neat. And, you know, Craig Hockenberry,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll try to dig up the toot for the show notes, but made a really interesting point and it was meant
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a really good way, which is exactly how I took it. Um, but he said basically like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, one of the fun things about WWDC in years past, like several years ago now was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the, uh, design awards, the Apple design awards. And, um, and you would be incredible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because you would know, I feel like we knew the nominees. We didn’t know the winners before WWDC.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And a lot of people would go to the actual award ceremony where you would learn who the winner was and you, you, the,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camaraderie and the congratulations and all that, that used to be so pivotal
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and important. I mean, Marco, you’ve talked about wanting one for years. Absolutely. And that used to be so much more important
⏹️ ▶️ Casey than I feel like it is now, because now it’s basically just a freaking email and that’s all it is. And Craig was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lamenting that. And I think Craig is right. Um, but what, one of the points that Craig made was that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this being in the keynote in any capacity is kind of what the ADA has become
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or that, that same feeling you get that we get that with our peers more from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey having like a flash in a keynote because really ultimately in this like two hour keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the word call sheet being said once my icon appearing on the screen for like 100 frames like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but it was the coolest thing that’s ever happened to me so it is kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John deal but Craig is right like the the the combination the formula you need to make
⏹️ ▶️ John that experience is you you need recognition from Apple and you need your peers
⏹️ ▶️ John to witness it. Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ John well put. The old in-person one was the recognition from Apple is they gave you the award and your peers
⏹️ ▶️ John witness it because WWDC used to be in-person, not just for a tiny select group of people who fit
⏹️ ▶️ John in Apple Park, but for like 5,000 people. I know it was still a tiny fraction of the developer base, although
⏹️ ▶️ John in the early years that actually wasn’t the tiny fraction of, but anyway. Being in front of like 5,000 of your
⏹️ ▶️ John peers who care enough to buy an expensive plane ticket to San Francisco, they would get to witness
⏹️ ▶️ John you receiving your recognition from Apple. The venue for that now is not Apple Park, because
⏹️ ▶️ John half the people, probably less than half, that used to go to WWDC are there, and half of them are YouTube influencers
⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t know who developers are anyway, right? They’re just there because they think phones are cool, they have no idea, like it’s not just developer peers.
⏹️ ▶️ John Now it’s mostly just like, you know, mainstream press who are interested in Apple products, not so much interested
⏹️ ▶️ John in developer stuff, whereas if you showed up, especially at like, the ADAs weren’t in the keynote back in the day, or
⏹️ ▶️ John at least a lot of the time they weren’t in the keynote. They were a separate thing. Who was still there at WWDC? Who’s gonna go to the
⏹️ ▶️ John ADAs? It was developers. Like a mainstream YouTube influencer or equivalent from
⏹️ ▶️ John back in the day was not gonna go to the ADAs at all because they didn’t care. So the only
⏹️ ▶️ John way you have to get any recognition in front of your peers is you have to be in the keynote because every developer around
⏹️ ▶️ John the world is watching the keynote, not just the ones who are there. People at Park just see the same video we do. They just see it a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ John earlier, right? And so this is it. the only venue we have for you to be recognized by Apple in
⏹️ ▶️ John front of your peers.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it felt really freaking good and I’m going to be riding this high for quite a while, I’m sure. And you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it felt, it felt pretty crummy not to get invited to the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WBDC. And I mean, we have, we, I think we already talked about this on the show. We are more commonly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not invited than we are invited. So it is not unexpected to not get the invite,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it, I don’t know, it hurts every time a little bit because I don’t know, maybe I’m a child, maybe I’m just person. I don’t know, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it hurt a little bit. But this definitely turned that frown upside down. And it is very cool. And I’m very, very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey appreciative. I don’t know who at Apple made that happen. Or I don’t know if it was just that I got super lucky.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Eric, the architect just needed to make that weird rhyme. But one way or another, however, it happened.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m going to choose to believe that it was a subtle nod in subtle thank you in my general direction.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s what I’m going to that’s what I’m going to go to bed with
⏹️ ▶️ John based on the lyrics. I don’t think I think the architect knows what your app does, but I do think Apple presented
⏹️ ▶️ John him with a list of apps to incorporate into a rap song and your app was among them because Apple likes your app.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I sure hope so. But that wasn’t the only video that happened today. There was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey posted to X over Twitter of all places, which really grosses me out. But Tim posted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a video with a bunch of suggestions for how to open the keynote, which I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of wanted to hate this because it’s kind of silly and dumb in a bunch of ways, but I actually kind of liked it. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is a bunch of random celebrities basically telling him how to say good morning, which was very, very
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s it is so that Marco’s many point he’s made several times. It is such a Tim Cook thing that his
⏹️ ▶️ John catchphrase is literally good morning
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because that’s how he would open
⏹️ ▶️ John every keynote and it’s like looking for any sign of life or personality. It’s like, well, you do say good morning every
⏹️ ▶️ John single time and you do have an accent that some people find amusing. So you say good morning and his whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey morning. Yeah, I
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t do it. But anyway, I think the interesting thing about this video, obviously, this is like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know It’s not a goodbye Tim video, but it is a Tim dedicated Segment
⏹️ ▶️ John in what we know to be his last thing or whatever Many many celebrities appear in this video
⏹️ ▶️ John saying the word good morning many of them How long have they been producing this
⏹️ ▶️ John video a year a year and a half before he announced his retirement?
⏹️ ▶️ John How do you get the time? How do you, even though you just gotta stick a camera in their face for two seconds and say good morning, there’s a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of celebrities. They have busy schedules. Just coordinating alone. We wanna do a thing for Apple. Are you
⏹️ ▶️ John interested? Do you have time? It’ll only take 30 seconds of your time. We might need a crew, blah, blah, blah. Multiply that by 15 A-list
⏹️ ▶️ John actors. This must have been in the works for a long time. And so I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like this is a lot of effort for a pretty silly
⏹️ ▶️ John segment. And the only reason it exists is because this is Tim Cook’s last keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I don’t know if, I think it’s more that Apple has a lot of connections to the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco celebrity world, first through Apple Music and then later through Apple TV Plus, which is now Apple TV,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Sure, I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ John saying people would refuse to do it, just logistically, finding room in all of their calendars,
⏹️ ▶️ John it had to have taken six months.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What if they just gave an intern a really big budget to go spend on Cameo? I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John no, but here’s
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing. If you’ve ever seen real cameos, the lighting is terrible. Like these were, not that
⏹️ ▶️ John they were produced and they’re in a studio, but they all looked okay. Some of them look really good, where
⏹️ ▶️ John I think they actually sent a crew, but cameos look like you can’t even see anything and they’re blurry and
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s overly compressed and they’re like in their back room and it’s echoey. And these were all above that level.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I, like I said, I wanted to hate it, but I thought it was kind of cute. And
⏹️ ▶️ John the other thing before we, we can’t say this so you have to show even though, or can’t say this over time, even though overtime is about the foldable
⏹️ ▶️ John phone, but just to acknowledge a few of the things that these weren’t in the keynote. And, you know, obviously
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s tons of stuff that wasn’t in the keynote, including the whole State of the Union that we’ll get to in future episodes. But just in the
⏹️ ▶️ John people scrambling to notice things in the hours after the keynote aired,
⏹️ ▶️ John Vince on Macedon was the first person who I saw that saw this. Vince says,
⏹️ ▶️ John of course, a tech note on optimizing app kit for sidecar touch interfaces.
⏹️ ▶️ John definitely not for touchscreen MacBooks. And this is TN3212, adopting gesture recognizer for
⏹️ ▶️ John sidecar touch support. And it reads in part, in Mac OS 27, AppChip continues to standardize on gesture
⏹️ ▶️ John recognizers as the primary mechanism for input handling. This change directly affects sidecar, which
⏹️ ▶️ John by the way is the thing where you use an iPad as your secondary screen on your Mac, affects sidecar
⏹️ ▶️ John because gesture recognizers are the only way to respond to touch input from a sidecar connected
⏹️ ▶️ John iPad running iPad OS 27. This article explains how the gesture recognizer model works
⏹️ ▶️ John and how to implement gesture recognizers correctly for sidecar touch input and how to update your existing
⏹️ ▶️ John event handling code and which APIs macOS 27 adds. Do you wanna
⏹️ ▶️ John know how to add touch support to AppKit controls? Well, you know, for sidecar, like obviously
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco such a common
⏹️ ▶️ John use case, obviously
⏹️ ▶️ John The iPad is a touch interface and yes, you can use it as a second screen, but you know, you can touch the screen on the iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John and if you have like an AppKit app and someone’s using a sidecar display, you might wanna check out these
⏹️ ▶️ John new APIs we’ve added to AppKit for gesture recognition, for sidecar though, for sidecar.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what it’s for, obviously.
⏹️ ▶️ John So that is one of the least subtle things I’ve ever seen. Well done, Apple, because I was like, how are they gonna put that out?
⏹️ ▶️ John How are they gonna even talk about that? Oh yeah, sidecar.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a friend who has a problem,
⏹️ ▶️ John Sam Henry Gold writes, iOS 26 framework references fold
⏹️ ▶️ John state and angle degrees, but I’m sure that’s nothing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, and Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of effort in WBC this year is about resizable iPhone apps.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Isn’t that interesting?
⏹️ ▶️ John Why would they want to resize the simulator to make an iPhone app really wide? When would that come up? I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ John talk about that in the
⏹️ ▶️ John time. Interesting, and they show it in the demos. I look, let me take this phone app, and they expand the phone app to be like twice as wide.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, wow, I mean, like I know some phones are wider than others, but really? Why would you ever make the simulator window
⏹️ ▶️ John twice as wide? And they show like it changing from a one column to a two column. interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ John Again, not particular. I mean, this is such a land of leaks. They used to have more of a lockdown in the days
⏹️ ▶️ John before, like we’re going to add, you know, we’re going to make the iPhone six be wider. We’re going to add some height to it in the
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone five or whatever. They had an easier time keeping secrets then. But yeah, this is just
⏹️ ▶️ John from people downloading the SDK and like searching for things and finding fold state and angle degrees is
⏹️ ▶️ John really something in the SDK. I mean, did they even lead those symbols to to go out. So yeah, foldable iPhone coming. Stay
⏹️ ▶️ John tuned to overtime for more on that because as the title of the overtime segment owner, it says
⏹️ ▶️ John the foldable iPhone takes shape literally.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And then, Oh, and somebody pointed out that there was also a lot of talk about origami in the state
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John of the demo app was origami.
⏹️ ▶️ John What was that? I mean, it was a mess. It’s just a messaging app or it’s just the name we pick. It’s just, or it’s just the name.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco For some reason we’re thinking about folding a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ John Somebody didn’t say it. No one said fold. Who said fold? I just said origami.