694: Potential and Homework
04 Jun 2026Our hopes and dreams for WWDC 2026.
Episode Description:
- Pre-show:
- 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈 Happy Pride! 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
- John and dynamic DNS
- Former & future sponsor Tailscale (but seriously, I’m obsessed —CL)
- DynDns.org
- no-ip.org
- Follow-up:
- Ferrari Luce
- Bambu’s battle with its users
- They were already in hot water (via Steve Riggins)
- Jose agrees
- Faking alarm reminders (via Ben Smith)
- Moving files between volumes
- Computer UI designer for Her (via Peter Puleio)
- WWDC 2026
- All systems glow
- Wallpaper
- Gurman prediction
- macOS 27, Vision Pro, and Ternus [oh my!]
- Hardware that has been delayed by Siri
- macOS 27 name
- What are we dreading?
- What we’re most excited for?
- What will we miss?
- Post-show: Casey wants some advice
- Members-only ATP Overtime: Nvidia announces RTX Spark
- Previously, the DGX Spark
- This is not a new chip (timestamp link to 55s)
- Surface Laptop Ultra
- Ars Technica
Sponsored by:
- Factor: Healthy Eating, Made Easy.
- DeleteMe: Making it quick, easy and safe to remove your personal data online.
Become a member for ATP Overtime, ad-free episodes, member specials, and our early-release, unedited “bootleg” feed!
Chapters
- 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
- John’s dynamic DNS
- Ferrari Luce follow-up
- EV Stupidity Checklist
- Bambu vs. open-source
- Sponsor: Factor (code atp50off)
- Alarm Reminders
- Cross-volume file moves
- UI designer for Her
- Sponsor: DeleteMe (code ATP)
- WWDC hopes 🖼️
- Ending theme
- Casey’s good pickle
🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
⏹️ ▶️ Casey June is Pride Month, at least here in the States, and we wanted to take a moment to just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quickly recognize that Pride Month is important, that the three of us stand with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of the LGBTQIA plus community. I did that off the top of my head. Hope I got it right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You matter. You are important. We love you and care for you. We try to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here for you in any way we can, when we can. And if you think that any of those folks
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are beneath you, then you are a turd. And you can just tune out right now. Uh, there’s, there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing wrong with loving who you want to love, with being who you want to be, and to stand in the way of somebody realizing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the best version of themselves in a way that doesn’t affect anyone else. Really. We, I think we support
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, you know, we, we, you should let the people love who they want to love and be who they want to be. And, you know, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have some friends that, um, are going through some transitions now and I can tell you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that at least as far as I can tell, they are happier than they’ve ever been in the many years that I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey known them. And so, gentlemen, if you have something to add, I am all ears and all for it. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in summary, ATP stands with you and happy pride.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think to as much as, as you know, three CIS head white guys
⏹️ ▶️ Marco understand any, any part of this. You know, we try to be the best allies that we can and the best supporters
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we can. it shouldn’t be as controversial as it is that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people should be who they are and love who they love. That is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a beautiful concept and it’s really sad that the world has made that so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco difficult for so many people for so long and in different forms.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you really think about what that really means, like be who you are and love who
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you love, who could possibly possibly be against that. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet there are people who are and who make the lives of queer people difficult.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we all know queer people, we know gender fluid people,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we know trans people, a lot of people whose lives have been made more difficult
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by forces against being who you are and loving who you love.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we just want to, as Casey said, just reiterate how much we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco vehemently support all rights for all people to be who they are and love who they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco love. Anything that we can do to help, we are happy to help. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco until this fight is totally won and everyone is equal, which as we know is probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco never, see also racism, like you know, we never really solved that, it’s a constant battle.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anything about gender identity and sexuality, like that’s going to be a constant battle for the rest of our lives too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we want to make make sure that we are constantly on the good side of that, helping to fight it. And so we strongly encourage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rest of you, please help defend people’s rights and help encourage people to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco live the lives that they want to live.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And in the US, we’ve recently made some terrible backsliding in this area. So we all have to fight even harder
⏹️ ▶️ John to not only continue to make forward progress, but to make up the ground that we’ve lost. We
⏹️ ▶️ John have to really dig in here and just try to get back to where we were a couple of years ago. So
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s rough for us. but you know, you can’t give up. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So happy pride, everybody.
John’s dynamic DNS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, you have something going on.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, Dynamic DNS. This was definitely a big thing, I don’t know, I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like maybe a little while ago where you’d get like, I got my first cable modem, oh, but I don’t have a static
⏹️ ▶️ John IP. But I want to run a server in my house in violation of my ISP’s terms of service.
⏹️ ▶️ John So you’d get a hostname and you’d be like, well, can I get a hostname that anytime anyone looks up the hostname, it resolves
⏹️ ▶️ John to whatever the IP address that my cable modem gave me recently? That’s dynamic DNS. The
⏹️ ▶️ John dynamic part is I look up the IP address for the host name and I get a different answer depending
⏹️ ▶️ John on whatever IP address was assigned to my cable modem or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, what year is it? Why are we talking about this right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now? We’re gonna party like it’s 1999, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, because in the past, I signed up for a dynamic DNS thing
⏹️ ▶️ John so I could do exactly that. So I could, wherever I was in the world, I could SSH into my
⏹️ ▶️ John home computer running Mac OS 10, obviously now, you know, former sponsor, Tailscale solves
⏹️ ▶️ John all these problems and more, right? But I’m going back in time, right? Long time ago, dynamic DNS was a big thing. I did that,
⏹️ ▶️ John I got an address, and I connected it up to my network. And I didn’t, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, back in the day, I mean, I’m still a cheapskate, but I was even more of a cheapskate when I had a lot less money.
⏹️ ▶️ John And there was a free one. It was just, oh, you can get a free dynamic DNS address at this particular service. Was this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dyndns.org? That’s what I used. No.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s no-ip, no-ip.org? Yes, I’m familiar with this as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wasn’t aware that anybody has ever paid for these services. Like, I’m sure they had pay tiers, but of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the different times I’ve seen a dying DNS or a no-IP, like everything, everywhere,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never heard of anyone paying for them.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so the no-IP thing with the free plan, it’s great, except that
⏹️ ▶️ John once a month you get an email that says, the host name you registered at no-ip.com is set to expire in the next 14
⏹️ ▶️ John days due to inactivity. Unused hosts are removed from our system if no updates are made within 90 days. This policy helps to
⏹️ ▶️ John ensure we have no stale DNS records. If you are still actively using this host name and do not wish to have your host
⏹️ ▶️ John removed from our DNS service and database, please click the link below. And they just have like a link for you to click. See also
⏹️ ▶️ John Google Voice. So me being a programmer back in the day, I just programmed a thing to watch for those emails
⏹️ ▶️ John and then like make a request for the URL.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Done and done, right? Because,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know. Then they, you know, time passes on and then they got wise to that. And they’re like, well, we can’t do that. We’re
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna make you go to a page and like do a captcha type thing. I’m like, oh, well, I suppose I could try to defeat the captcha. But
⏹️ ▶️ John again, this was many, many years ago. I’m like, I’ll just go to, I’ll just, when they send the email once a month, I’ll click on the link, I’ll do
⏹️ ▶️ John the captcha. Eventually the captcha thing will learn my IP address is legitimate and not even prompt me. You just hit the little checkbox
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. So yeah, and I had a note in my calendar to say, you should probably get
⏹️ ▶️ John rid of that dynamic DNS thing because you don’t really use it anymore and there are so many better solutions.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s time to ditch it. But I put the note on a specific date and that was, I guess,
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe last week or so. And that’s because I
⏹️ ▶️ John first signed up for this no IP address 20
⏹️ ▶️ John years ago. Oh, wow,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is the anniversary corner. I’ve never been happier
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my whole life. This is the nerdiest anniversary I’ve ever heard.
⏹️ ▶️ John For 20 years, once a month, I’ve been clicking on a link or going to a caption and filling it out.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I feel like this is an amazing embodiment of exactly how cheap I am and how far I will
⏹️ ▶️ John go not to have to pay any money. Because every single month, they’re like, the come ons are like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John the button that’s highlighted is the one that says sign up for our paid plan. And like, it tries to funnel you so hard to sign up for our paid
⏹️ ▶️ John plan. I’m like, nope, I will outlast you, no IP. I will do this for free forever.
⏹️ ▶️ John I just kept waiting for the day I’d wake up and they’d say, no more free plan. You have to pay. But they never
⏹️ ▶️ John did. I was like, if you’re never gonna make me pay, I’m never going to pay because I don’t need any of the paid services.
⏹️ ▶️ John All I need is exactly what you’re giving me. And once a month, I will do this. So for 20 years,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve been clicking on links from ip.com. And I just wanted to celebrate that probably right before I get
⏹️ ▶️ John rid of that IP address and replace it with something more sane. So happy 20th anniversary,
⏹️ ▶️ John my host, dynamic host name that I signed up for in 2006. That’s amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, first of all, like, if you wanted to stop doing this, how much money would that cost? Like, I’m sure there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of paid plan where you don’t have to verify every month, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, I mean, there’s so many other solutions and I’d also have to think about like, why am I doing this?
⏹️ ▶️ John Because these days I have all my stuff on servers, like, you know, I have my servers that I host on CloudFlare and stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John So like part of the reason it says there’s no activity, well, two reasons. One, Fios really doesn’t change my IP address.
⏹️ ▶️ John So like the dynamic DNS thing, like I don’t even run it half the time. And two, like, when do I ever need to connect
⏹️ ▶️ John to my home network in this way? I really don’t. So I’m probably just gonna get rid of it and not replace it. I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ John remember the last time I used it, but I was so close to 20 years last time I considered this, I’m like, I’ll put a thing in the calendar.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s 20 year anniversary, we’ll figure it out. But anyway, yeah, I will click on a link once a month for 20 years
⏹️ ▶️ Marco money. By the way, I looked it up, it’s three bucks a month to get rid of that requirement. I will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s worth it for you to save three bucks to click a link once a month,
⏹️ ▶️ John great. Yeah, no, no, it’s not. That’s the thing, like if I wanted the services, I would have paid for it long ago. I have no problem paying
⏹️ ▶️ John for services that I need, but I don’t need anything beyond what I have. And the only quote unquote cost to me is clicking on that link
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s like 20 years, man. I’ll click it for 20 years. If you give me a free way to do it, I’ll take it. If
⏹️ ▶️ John it was more onerous or if I needed some extended services, I would have done it. But yeah, obviously I really
⏹️ ▶️ John want to go that road as Casey will tell you that. Tailscale, former sponsor, is the way to
⏹️ ▶️ John do that because it’s so much more powerful than the Dynamic DNS address.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, they are former and future sponsor for the record, but genuinely I am pretty obsessed with Tailscale.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It really does just work in almost every way. And one of the things that’s great,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not to turn this into a Tailscale ad, but there’s a couple of features that makes this really great. First of all, all of your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey devices have a stable host name that’s only visible to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things within your own tailnet. So basically within your little mesh network, if you will.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They also have a feature called tailscale funnel, which is the thing that I think would solve a lot of these
⏹️ ▶️ Casey problems that we used to solve with dynamic DNS. What tailscale funnel does is it says, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to vend this port on this device to the public Internet. So say
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re working on a web page in like a Docker container or something like that, and you want to have a coworker
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look at it. Well, a coworker maybe, or like a friend or something like that. So someone not on the same tailnet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can actually enable Tailscale Funnel which will let the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Internet tunnel into your device via Tailscale servers, but it’s all encrypted so they can’t sniff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it out or anything like that. It’s actually very powerful and very cool. I wouldn’t be like running
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a jellyfin server through this or something like that, But for the sorts of things where you just want somebody to look
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at something hosted on your own computer, it does work very well.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Suppose you were maybe sending a Goose concert video to a friend.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, exactly. I mean, I don’t know who would ever do that. But that is something you could do, hypothetically.
Ferrari Luce follow-up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s start with some follow-up. We have a big show today, so we’re going to try to power through this, famous last words.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s talk about the Ferrari Luce. RG extracted a video clip that, John, you were talking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about that shows, I don’t know, how would you describe what you were after with this video clip? I understand it, and I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey watched it, but I’m not sure how to verbalize it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, maybe I just could have given a timestamp link to the YouTube video, but RG did extract it into a quick little
⏹️ ▶️ John animated GIF, which is not a GIF. It’s an MP4, but whatever. It’s the two parts of the design of the car.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is from Ferrari’s own presentation. they said basically, think of it this way. There’s like a
⏹️ ▶️ John inner, black inner part that slopes way down in the front and the back. And then there’s this red or body
⏹️ ▶️ John colored outer shell that goes on top of it. And they have an animation showing just that. So that’s what I was referring to in
⏹️ ▶️ John the last show and I had trouble describing it. I’m still having trouble describing it, but now there’s a clip. Check it out.
EV Stupidity Checklist
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Additionally, I don’t remember if I said this privately or publicly, but I’d said to you one way or another that you should make a blog
⏹️ ▶️ Casey post about your EV stupidity checklist. And you did, and it is nearly perfect.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Would you like to talk about it?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, time-wise, depending on when you saw what, you might’ve think the blog post came first, but it was totally Casey saying,
⏹️ ▶️ John hey, that thing you talked about on the show, you should make a blog post about that. So I did. We’ll link it in the show notes. It
⏹️ ▶️ John is a more formalized version of what I talked about on the episode about
⏹️ ▶️ John when car makers make an EV and forget how to do basic things in car design. It’s not just
⏹️ ▶️ John for EVs, because they do this across all cars, but anyway, I try to cover a bunch of bases. Check it out,
⏹️ ▶️ John print it out, give it to your car designer friends, and say, here, look
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at this list. Right. You forgot something on this list, though, which didn’t occur to me until several days later.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you want to try to guess what it is you forgot? I
⏹️ ▶️ John mean, whenever you make a list like this, everyone’s going to write in to tell you what you quote unquote
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey forgot. Of course.
⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously, I could have gone on forever with things that are dumb about EVs, but which particular thing are you referring
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I will give you three guesses. What is my bugbear? What am I always banging the drum about?
⏹️ ▶️ John For EVs specifically or for your car specifically? Yes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, it’s not common across every single EV, but a lot of EVs, particularly the popular ones.
⏹️ ▶️ John I should have written down the suggestions everyone else had. I didn’t say any suggestions that I hadn’t thought of, but just ones that didn’t make the
⏹️ ▶️ John cut. But other than a windshield that withstands iPads, I’m not thinking of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything. You jerk. Well played. No, car play. It’s car play. It’s obviously
⏹️ ▶️ Casey car play. You need to support car play. Yeah, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, yeah. A lot of people wrote in with that, because they were saying, hey, not only is that, you know, whatever, like the
⏹️ ▶️ John Chevy Equinox, because I used that as an example when I tooted about this. Not only is the Chevy Equinox EV stupid in these
⏹️ ▶️ John ways, also they remove car play from it. I’m like, I have bad news about GM and car play. It’s not, I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John I know they’re doing it mostly on EVs now, but I think it’s basically a company-wide thing. So as each
⏹️ ▶️ John car model gets redesigned, I think their plan is for the new design not to have car play. So that’s not an EV thing, but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, that’s really dumb. But that’s a GM
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. And also, every few months, somebody from Rivian goes on a Neelay Patel podcast and gives
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey an interview.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that just happened again, basically saying, we are never going to do CarPlay. Why would we do CarPlay? All we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to do is add a few integrations for things like Spotify, maybe, or Apple Music, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then it’ll be fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Clearly, nobody would ever want to run Overcast in the car. Why would you want to do
⏹️ ▶️ John that? Well, it’s just like this back and forth cadence of the same story, which is, executive says we
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t need CarPlay, and then whatever the most recent survey 80% of customers said they won’t buy a car without CarPlay. It
⏹️ ▶️ John just goes back and forth and back and forth. And it’s like, all right, well, I guess you’re just going to wait it out and see if that number goes down.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Rivian’s position has always been, like, we don’t need ever, we don’t want somebody taking over the whole experience.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like, well, that’s not really, like, almost no car lets CarPlay take over the whole experience.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there’s, like, my car has, like, in the most recent interview, whoever from Rivian
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was being interviewed by Neely, and I think it was Decoder, said like the CarPlay requires every
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pixel of the screen. No, it doesn’t. Most cars don’t use that. It does not.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I got so mad about this. I got so unnecessarily mad about this. Maybe they were talking about CarPlay
⏹️ ▶️ John Ultra, which by the way, the Luce doesn’t have that either, which is interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but even, but like, you know, look at what CarPlay means to everyone is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a window on the screen that shows your phone stuff. And that’s all it needs to be. Like my car, it takes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up most of the main screen, but it doesn’t take up any of the gauge cluster. And along the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bottom of the main screen is my car’s controls for things like climate. And that’s fine, it works
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. And then they were like, oh, our customers don’t even want it anymore. Yeah, because anybody who wants
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it isn’t your customer. Right, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Self-selecting, it’s the Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, yeah, so okay, review. We removed
⏹️ ▶️ John it from our cars, and then three years later, nobody who buys our cars wants CarPlay.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, who could imagine that? So yeah, good luck. I’ve used your software, I’ve owned
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your vehicle, I’ve used your software without CarPlay, and guess what I did? I put my phone in a bracket next
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the air vent because that’s what I had to do because that’s what I actually need is my phone in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the car and your software is not good. Like the Rivian map software
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was horrendous. The routing was bad, the traffic was bad, the directions were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad, the map data itself was bad, the street names were bad, the exit names
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were bad, everything about it was bad so I never use it, I just used Waze.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s why, because theirs was worse. Guess what? Their Bluetooth implementation for audio?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bad. Limited. Their version- their client apps for things like Apple Music?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bad. That’s why I didn’t use them for very long. And whenever they would announce some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new update or some new service, I’d go try it again. And I would bail out after less than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a day because it was so bad. Or I would try their routing because they said the routing’s better. I would try it on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one trip and it would be so bad. Sorry, Rivian. I want Rivian
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to succeed. I really do because their vehicles. I think have a lot of great at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco aspect a lot of promise. I like a lot about their company ethos. I like a lot about their style.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Their capabilities and things like off-road situations are amazing. Like there’s so much and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m so optimistic about their future lineup. line up like I think the R2 is going to bring them a whole bunch of success.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really love how the R3 might be looking. The R3X
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be a serious contender for my next car if it actually comes out in the right time span.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But CarPlay, man, that would solve so many problems and Rivian still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco continues to assert that we don’t need CarPlay because we can just build in people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like podcasts right? Oh we’ll just build an Apple podcast. Done. We’ll just have Spotify. That’s podcasts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? Makes me so mad. Oh you want maps? Here’s a map. It’s all the same right? Nope.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It sure isn’t. Nope. It makes me so mad. And the thing of it is is that you can offer CarPlay
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and continue to do the sh** you’re already doing. It’s not mutually exclusive.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t understand.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the that’s and the worst part is like they keep saying like we We have to do this ourselves so that we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can give people a good experience. They’re not giving people a good experience. The good experience
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is I got to put my phone on a bracket because that’s what I actually need. And I don’t have to do that with my other car
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because my other car has car play. And so I don’t need to put my phone in a bracket and use it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while I’m driving.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. No, it’s preposterous to me. It’s complete hubris. I am my personal opinion.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I’ve probably said this before and I don’t think it’s an original thought, but I think eventually when Tesla sales continue to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey go through the crapper, I think eventually they will enable, we’ve heard rumors about this, I think we’ve even talked about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on the show, they will eventually enable CarPlay. And then spontaneously, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey clouds will disappear at Rivian HQ and suddenly CarPlay will work
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a Rivian because it works on Tesla’s, so I guess it should work for us too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, we might literally hear about CarPlay being added to to Tesla’s next week. Like they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something with Apple where Apple announces on some slide at WBC, that could actually be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco part of what we hear very soon. I can totally see that being a thing that they would wanna
⏹️ ▶️ Marco co-announce together.
⏹️ ▶️ John There was something in the show notes about CarPlay on Tesla, but it just got pushed down and down and didn’t even make it into overtime. This
⏹️ ▶️ John is a long queue, so thank you for bringing it back up.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You are welcome. All right, I told you we had to make this quick and then I went on a tear with, well, Marco and I both, and air
⏹️ ▶️ Casey high five to you, Marco, I’m right there with you.
Bambu vs. open-source
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s talk about another thing that makes us so, so happy bamboo, uh, with regard to last week’s overtime
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and, uh, bamboo, the 3d printer manufacturer and their fights with users or with it,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with their own users, uh, Steve Riggins writes bamboo was not liked by the open source community. Well before this latest issue,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’ve repeatedly broken the spirit of open source software. And this was, I believe the final straw for many.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I own a Prusa PR USA, partially because of this older beef that I heard about via
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my friends, and I did not want to encourage bamboo to continue to act in this manner, which they clearly have.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was posted on Mastodon. Jose replied to that post
⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying, facts. I stop firmware updates right when they announce plans to lock down the comms on my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey X1C. I’ll never buy another bamboo.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I understand why people have a beef with bamboo
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it being an increasingly proprietary system. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get that. have pointed out legitimate issues like bamboo is a Chinese company
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and sending your models through their servers can possibly create some unusual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or undesirable outcomes. I totally get that. I just don’t care
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about those things from my point of view as a casual 3D printing hobbyist.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love how easy and good bamboo stuff is. If I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanted to go kind of the more like open source route the Prusa
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff looks really good I I totally get why people would do that and maybe in the future
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will go that route but right now I’m perfectly happy to stay in this walled
⏹️ ▶️ Marco garden. Walled gardens can work really well as long as they’re not the only gardens
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that like and that’s the good thing is I’m glad the world of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco open free non lockdown 3d printing exists and I think there will always be a market for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. If I was running like a big fleet of printers for like a product
⏹️ ▶️ Marco company where I was actually printing stuff in mass and shipping it to customers, I would probably want more control over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my hardware and so I would probably do something like a bunch of pre-processes or something. But as a hobbyist,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love not having to deal with the increased complexities
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the open source world. I love just having it be integrated because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it was harder before I had the integrated bamboo system I never did anything with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it I never 3d printed anything because it was too hard now it’s made it easy so what I said in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the in the overtime for non-members about this the basic gist of it is please let
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me not care about the dispute here between bamboo and the open-source people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco please let me continue to enjoy this hobby and not be an activist this one time for this one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco issue, because that’s that’s currently a big source of joy for me. And I want it to stay that
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And your request was denied, by the way. So many people wrote in and basically said to Marco,
⏹️ ▶️ John no, sorry, you can’t not care. So
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco answer asked
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, I was not persuaded by those arguments.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, but you asked like you shouldn’t ask permission if you don’t want to hear the answer. You don’t have their permission, but you just you can do what you want
⏹️ ▶️ John because you You don’t need their permission.
Sponsor: Factor (code atp50off)
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this episode by Factor. Now imagine, hunger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco strikes, but you’re exhausted. You’ve had a really long day. There’s something healthy in your fridge
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you should be making, but you just don’t have it in you. Factor solves
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this problem for you. Factor helps you hit your nutrition goals this season and just eat healthy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco without the planning, the grocery runs, or the cooking. So Factor meals come to you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fresh, never frozen. They have over 100 rotating weekly meals to pick from, including globally inspired
⏹️ ▶️ Marco flavors like Mediterranean and Asian. There’s always new stuff to look forward to. And you get the Factor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco meals. They’re all crafted with functional ingredients. Lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole foods,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco healthy fats. There’s a whole bunch of ingredients. There’s over 175 ingredients that Factor will not use.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Things like artificial colors or sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup, refined seed oils. They have the whole list of stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t use in any of their meals. So you can be sure that you’re getting high quality stuff. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is honestly so convenient. We were looking for something like this just two weeks ago. We started
⏹️ ▶️ Marco starting Factor again because we wanted something that my teenage son who, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he gets home from school and he’s starving. What can he make? Well, he can go in the cabinet and eat a box of crackers and eat garbage.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or we’re like, let’s get him real good healthy meals. So we went right to Factor for that because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all he has to do is pick something out of the fridge in a Factor box and put it in the microwave for two minutes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco poke some holes in the top and it’s done. there’s a whole meal healthy, high protein, fresh vegetables
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ready to go. It’s a great situation. So head to factor meals.com slash
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP 50 off and use the code ATP 50 off to get 50% off and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until September
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 27th, 2026. See website for more details. Thank you so much to factor for sponsoring our show.
Alarm Reminders
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, with regard to alarm reminders and clock alarms
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for more than 24 hours in advance, Ben Smith writes, you can set an alarm up to seven days in advance by
⏹️ ▶️ Casey using the repeat every X day of the week and selecting which day or days you want the alarm to go off. Given
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that alarm reminders are now way better at this, I can’t think of a reason why anyone would do this, but it is
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a clever workaround, but thankfully no longer needed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that is a clever workaround. It’s a terrible solution. You shouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to do that to set an alarm more than 24 hours ahead of time. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I understand why people do this with now deal new alarm reminders, if that makes sense.
Cross-volume file moves
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We talked a lot over the last few weeks about moving files and how to move files. I think the genesis of this was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey NASC ATP several weeks back. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John do you copy and paste files? And we talked about copy and paste and then the move modifiers. That’s been the past three
⏹️ ▶️ John shows worth of discussion about this.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Steven Optebeek writes, Optebeck, Optebeek, Opte something.
⏹️ ▶️ John given pronunciation and I also can’t remember who it is, but I know we always get it wrong. I’m sorry, Steven.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven Optebeek writes, you can use the move command, the MV command to move files across
⏹️ ▶️ Casey volumes. It works just as you would expect. Here’s a demo movie and this was on Mastodon and we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Casey put a link in the show notes. I can’t believe I didn’t like not scold you but correct you about this. I guess you were just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a tear and I didn’t want to interrupt but of course you can use the MV command to move files across volumes.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, yeah, I didn’t say definitively one or the other but I just thought about it. I’m like, you know what? I actually haven’t tried that
⏹️ ▶️ John on macOS and because the file moving, the basic tools on macOS like CP
⏹️ ▶️ John and MV and stuff do all sorts of Mac stuff. I’m like, I wonder, did they change that? But anyway, I didn’t actually
⏹️ ▶️ John try it. Steven did, and so there’s a video.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then Steven continues in a second movie, in a second toot, here I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey am interrupting the process by yanking the volume. Don’t try this at home, kids. The move, or MV, only copied
⏹️ ▶️ Casey part of the file and kept the source intact.
⏹️ ▶️ John So there you go. So it is, it bravely tested the worst case scenario, which is if it dies
⏹️ ▶️ John in the middle, what happens? And the good news is that the source file is still there. So thumbs up to MV.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. And then someone whose identity was omitted or will be omitted here
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to spare them the embarrassment wrote in to say that they did not heed your advice, John, about cross volume moves in the Finder
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and ended up posing a entire virtual machine that they were trying to move. Whoopsie-dipsies.
⏹️ ▶️ John upseas. Yeah, they said that they had my voice in their head while they were doing and they said, well, anyway, and then
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing failed and they deleted the destination and realized their source was host. So remember,
⏹️ ▶️ John reminding again, what this is saying is, if you’re doing an operation in the finder with drag and drop,
⏹️ ▶️ John that would normally be a copy. In other words, moving across volumes, but you override
⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that it’s a copy by holding down command to make it a move. That’s what I’m saying. Don’t do
⏹️ ▶️ John because, you know, for the reason stated here, they’re like, Like, I think the problem with the VM is it is actually
⏹️ ▶️ John a folder full of files, but it looks like one file. So like you drag it, this is like, this is actually
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of working as designed, but not as the user expects. You know, you hold down command, turn it into a
⏹️ ▶️ John move, it starts going, but it fails for some reason. You’re like, ah, well, I’ll just do it over. But what you didn’t realize is that
⏹️ ▶️ John in that file that looks like a single file, but it’s actually a folder full of files, each one of those files was like,
⏹️ ▶️ John copy the destination, delete the source, copy the destination, delete the source, copy the destination, delete the source. Oh, I got interrupted.
⏹️ ▶️ John So when it gets interrupted, you’re like, oh, the copy failed. Let me just delete the destination and I’ll recopy it. But when
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re recopying it is now a partially populated directory that looks like a file full of stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is, again, I don’t think this is actually a bug. This is like just working as designed, but again, not as you expect. There are
⏹️ ▶️ John actual bugs where you’re working with a single file and you can still end up in a scenario where
⏹️ ▶️ John the destination didn’t get written correctly and the source is gone. So don’t do it. Just let it be a copy and then delete
⏹️ ▶️ John the source when you’re sure the destination has been entirely written.
UI designer for Her
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We did a member special on the movie Her, and we talked during the member
⏹️ ▶️ Casey special about how, or at least I brought up how cool I thought the user interfaces were on the screens.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Peter Pulio writes, a fun little tidbit about the movie Her, the artist Jeff McFetridge
⏹️ ▶️ Casey designed all the computer UIs seen in the film. His art is wonderful and worth checking out. But he’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey also done a lot of work for Apple, including the artist Watch Face, WWDC 2017 graphics,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Apple Pay transit ads. Come to think of it, living so close to New York City, Marco’s probably seen some of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey his Apple Pay transit ads in person.
⏹️ ▶️ John I have, I have fond memories of that WWDC, uh, 2017. You remember that? Like the top view of all the little people.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was really cool looking.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like, Oh, that guy.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I know his style.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I really like that style.
Sponsor: DeleteMe (code ATP)
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We respond to this episode by Delete.me. Have you ever thought,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I should make it a little bit less easy for anybody, you know, scammers, stalkers, or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to find my personal info online? Here’s what you do. Go to www.joindelete.me.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP, enter code ATP, you’ll get 20% off Delete.me. Delete.me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco removes your personal information that’s being sold online. So what these are, these are data broker
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sites. They post your information and they advertise, say, hey, if you give us
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few bucks, you can get this person’s name, address, phone number, names of family members.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a really gross business, and it’s kind of unsettling to see your stuff out there so easy for anybody to get.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But Delete.me is made to help. So Delete.me automates takedowns and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco opt-outs for hundreds of data broker services out there. So you tell them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what information you want to be removed. You can have your stuff, you can have a family
⏹️ ▶️ Marco plan, and then Delete.me does all the work to wipe your personal info from all of those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco data broker sites that they can find. You can get an individual plan for a little over eight bucks a month.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can get even bigger discounts with a two-year plan, or when you enroll with a partner or family, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great service to do this data removal service for you. Delete.me was named the top pick for data
⏹️ ▶️ Marco removal services by Wirecutter. So check it out. I personally went around looking for one of these services
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few years back, I found Delete.me before they were a sponsor, and I was very impressed by it. I use it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was great. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete.me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, at a special discount for our listeners, get 20% off your Delete.me plan
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you go to www.joindelete.me.com slash ATP
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and use promo code ATP at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to www.joindeleteme.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP and enter code ATP at checkout. That’s www.joindeleteme.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP code ATP. Thanks to Delete.me for sponsoring our show.
WWDC hopes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is the week before WWDC. WWDC is here
⏹️ ▶️ Casey next week. We will not be going unless there’s a surprise that I was not aware of that I was not aware of,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but we will be bringing you coverage as always. And the theme for this year is
⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like they’ve leaned on this one a few times. I mean, it’s obvious that they’re referencing the sort of HDR
⏹️ ▶️ John overbright effects that they use when you activate Siri.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like, didn’t they use maybe they didn’t use the exact phrase, but I feel like the art on at least a couple
⏹️ ▶️ John of recent WDCs has been like, Hey, did you know we use HDR colors and
⏹️ ▶️ John images and graphics in
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco iOS? Like, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John we know. We know. But anyway, here we are. It’s just a WDC 2024 take two.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hopefully. I mean, we’ll see what we actually get here. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think German’s reporting, which we’ll get to in a second, has been pretty strong in one direction, and that’s, you know, there’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of truth there, but… What I hope to see, broadly…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI is everywhere in the industry. A bunch of it is BS and is turning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out to be underwhelming, but a bunch of it is turning out to be pretty useful and pretty high value.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple is, so far, pretty much nowhere in this game. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t make the models. They have tried and they have failed to make the models. They don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco host the infrastructure. And I think more importantly for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple and their products, they currently don’t really use AI well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in their products. And these things are obviously related to a degree,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but what I want to see from Apple is, if you’re not gonna build the models,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. hire Google to do it, that’s fine. Like Google makes good models, so that seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a totally fine choice. If you want Google to host the infrastructure too,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s also fine. Like these big companies have lots of infrastructure, lots of capacity. Apple has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco used things like Azure and AWS for parts of their services before, so that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco perfectly fine. What I want to see from Apple is the ability to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco integrate AI into making good products and features. We haven’t seen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that either. So far, Apple has been utterly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco paralyzed and seemingly unable to ship anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good that uses AI. You look at how they have tried so far in their little baby steps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Siri, of course, is not the baby-sitter. Siri is like the giant Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI-like area that they have so far just completely failed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in so many giant ways over time with Siri and its reputation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is terrible. Everything bad about Siri’s reputation is 100% deserved
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it really has been massively missed opportunities, huge inflated promises
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they cannot then deliver on or that they deliver inconsistently on. And then you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look at how else have they integrated AI into their OSs and products. So far,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco badly. We have crap like image playgrounds, which is horrendous. The writing tools,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which are pretty rough and not super useful. You know, minor things like photo
⏹️ ▶️ Marco editing that are kind of like half baked, half there, mostly over-promised and under-delivered. We have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like the image visual intelligence. That’s also pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco half-baked and pretty underwhelming compared to what Android has, which is the same feature but better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and works better. We have not yet seen Apple do anything successful
⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t believe you forgot Genmoji. Oh, yeah, right. They’ve done multiple versions of Genmoji.
⏹️ ▶️ John Image Playgrounds is here, but so is Genmoji.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, so what I wanna see is, okay, if you can’t make the models, fine. You can’t host the models,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine, but use them to build products that don’t suck.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Use them to build features that are compelling. Add APIs that developers can use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to build features and products that are compelling.
⏹️ ▶️ John Hey, they did that. They did your transcription thing. That’s an example of using AI to make a useful feature.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They did, and the transcription, I think, is possibly the only thing they did pretty well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with AI so far at an API level. The foundation models are there in the 26 releases.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m glad they’re there, they’re very limited, and I’m hoping to see improvements there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with 27. But I ultimately, what I wanna see from the 27 OSs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is for Apple to join the AI revolution,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to set expectations accordingly. I don’t expect them to have their own models, or at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco least from scratch, I’m sure, whatever their deal is with Google, that’s fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t expect them to become a model company. But Apple in general is a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco product and platform company. So what I wanna see is get on board
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with AI in your products and platforms for things that it can actually do well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for compelling features that are well implemented, well designed and well integrated.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So far they’ve shown no willingness or ability to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use AI in a well implemented, well designed and well integrated way. We just have crap like image
⏹️ ▶️ Marco playgrounds. And I would love to see Apple deliver something with AI that is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a half-assed laughingstock.
⏹️ ▶️ John Put in a slightly good word for the image cleanup, which I think is kind of like voice transcription,
⏹️ ▶️ John a useful feature that couldn’t exist without AI because the previous like repair thing that they had
⏹️ ▶️ John was really falling behind the state of the art. It’s why I always ended up using Edit and Pixelmator Pro
⏹️ ▶️ John because they had some machine learning powered image repair thing for years. and I was
⏹️ ▶️ John like, I was using that because it works so much better. And then Apple added cleanup. It’s like, hey, we’ll do that too. Now is cleanup
⏹️ ▶️ John as good as Google’s things? No, it’s not. Google has better image cleanup tools, as you noted.
⏹️ ▶️ John But like transcription, it’s like, well, it’s better than it not being there. It should be a system level feature. It should
⏹️ ▶️ John be part of the Photos app. It should be something that they add in. And they did add it to their
⏹️ ▶️ John credit. But now I’m gonna take it all away because that feature on my wife’s M1 Max
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Studio in the photos application works about 10% of the time.
⏹️ ▶️ John And you know what happens the other 90% of the time in the little sidebar and photos, I see a little text message that says,
⏹️ ▶️ John image cleanup cannot be loaded, try again later. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know what that means. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John persisted across major versions of Mac OS, I believe. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, does it never work? No, once in a while it works, but not all the time. And I can’t figure out why.
⏹️ ▶️ John So way to screw up that one feature that I actually liked. Rumor, we’re not gonna go over like
⏹️ ▶️ John every rumor for WWDC, we’ll link to some roundups where you can see there’s lots of stuff that’s rumored, but,
⏹️ ▶️ John um, we’re going to hit some highlights, but one of the things that is rumored that we’re not going to cover today is supposedly better
⏹️ ▶️ John machine learning, powered AI, powered photo editing features. Hopefully they’ll actually work this time, but that
⏹️ ▶️ John is one of the things that I think is an example of take, uh, AI technology and
⏹️ ▶️ John make a useful product feature out of it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think being contrarian right now, insofar as we’re not going to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey shove AI down your throats any more than we already are, but we’re not going to do any more shoving of AI down your throats.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Look at us. We’re with you. We agree. I think as much as I’m snarking right
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now, I think that’s actually a potential victory to just say, look, we’ve tried what we’ve tried.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re going to make a few things better, but we’re not going to just sprinkle AI dust on every freaking thing we
⏹️ ▶️ John Do you think that’s what Apple’s saying? Or are you saying you wish they would say that?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that they have the opportunity to say that because they’ve done so little now and they can just lean right into it. But they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will not say that. They will not say
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, they won’t. They absolutely won’t. But it would be neat because, I don’t know, I just, I feel like Marco, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey opened this entire segment about AI with saying that, you know, in some ways,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in certain contexts, it’s very good and very impressive and very useful.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then there’s the 8 trillion other ways where it’s being shoved right down our throats. And I’m not here for any of that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I wish that somebody would be the adult in the room and just say, you know what, we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to do what Apple always used to do, which is we will use this underlying technology to do things that are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey helpful in the real world to real people. What like, you know, photo editing and stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that, rather than just making something stupid that nobody wants, like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey image playgrounds. So I don’t know, I don’t know what they’re going to do. I suspect that they’re going to try to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just, you know, everyone seems to think, and it would not surprise me, that they’re just going to try to right all the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrongs from 2024 or you know, what is the phrase from Godfather, settle all the family debts or something like that? And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I believe it’s business.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, why don’t you just correct
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John me now so we can save all the
⏹️ ▶️ John users. No, I’m just letting Marco correct you on movie quotes. The world’s gone mad.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not a good spot for me, my friends. Not a good spot for me. I love you, Marco.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John But anyways,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the point is that it would be very refreshing to see them treat AI as a tool or a means
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to an end rather than the end itself, which is what the rest of the industry
⏹️ ▶️ John doing. So I think they have, like, they’ve been, what Marco described, if you asked Apple, they’d be like, oh, that’s what we’re doing.
⏹️ ▶️ John But our rebuttal would be, yeah, but the places where you added it to your products didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John make them better. Like, I mean, I’m not saying Genmoji is bad, but like, that’s like, what is
⏹️ ▶️ John your usage of that feature? Like, it may have been implemented well, it may have even been integrated well, and it may have been integrated
⏹️ ▶️ John so well that it’s not in your face because, you know, you’re not being prompted for it a lot, but it’s not something people want to do
⏹️ ▶️ John versus photo editing, which I think is a good use and transcription is a thing developers want to use. So that’s a good use.
⏹️ ▶️ John Image Playgrounds, they definitely threw in your face. Image Playgrounds is here. As Marco was
⏹️ ▶️ John talking about, when you would install the OS, it would throw it in your face.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 48 times. Oh, that’s right, that’s right.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it would just constantly say, hey, Image Playgrounds exists, because otherwise how would you find it? It would just be this app in your applications folder. And it’s look,
⏹️ ▶️ John if there was demand for not very good image generation in a really limited environment,
⏹️ ▶️ John people would find the app, but they don’t, because it’s not a thing that they want to do. So yeah, the features they do have I mean
⏹️ ▶️ John I said we’re not going to cover everything that they’re that is supposedly coming We’re going to cover a couple highlights and one of them is
⏹️ ▶️ John The serial overhaul on iOS 27 and German’s got a little info on that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think also before we get there just ultimately what I want to see is When Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco either is not really ready to do something Well yet, or if the industry
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is demanding it, but they don’t respect it. They call it a playground
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, we had Swift Playgrounds on the iPad, and that was like, we’re not gonna give you real Swift on the iPad. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has broadened since then, but like, it’s like, we’re not gonna give you the full-blown environment. We’re gonna give
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you a toy. Here’s a toy version of this. Image Playground was a perfect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco name for that in Apple’s parlance, because they’re like, this whole AI thing, we don’t respect this. Like, that was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously, like, Craig Federighi was very clear about that. He and Jaws
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the top Apple brass did not respect AI for a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco long time, even after the rest of the country is like, this is getting pretty good, pretty useful.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They crapped all over it in public. So you can imagine how bad it must have been in private.
⏹️ ▶️ John What they came out against was chatbots. Federighi, according to inside rumors, sort of got
⏹️ ▶️ John religion about chat GPT or the technology itself back with like GPT
⏹️ ▶️ John version two or something. But what they all came out publicly against is that thing where you go to chat, GPT.com
⏹️ ▶️ John and have a conversation with an LM were against that. That’s what they were coming out with. And I feel like I
⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote AI is a much broader topic than that. But the manifestation that hundreds of millions of people see
⏹️ ▶️ John is I go to a website or I use an app and I type back and forth to a chat bot and that’s what they were against.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but honestly that was obviously the wrong take in retrospect. And even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then it’s like when when old dudes heard about younger people texting their friends all the time instead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of calling them on the phone. And they were like, that’s terrible, why would anybody want to text their friends? They could just call them. And you know what?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everyone wants to text their friends, as it turns out. That’s a very generational thing. And I think Jaws and Federighi
⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously missed that completely for way too long. And so as a result,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple in general just did not see AI as something that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they needed to care about when that was obviously wrong. And so that’s kind of what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco led them to be so far behind among other problems, but what they shipped
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was almost like trying to placate the stock market like look we can AI here’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco half-assed app that generates some garbage that nobody will ever use because it’s terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco When Siri was launched in 2011 it started out as a in a pretty competitive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco place for the time. It just never moved forward and then everyone else did move forward.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s AI stuff wasn’t even competitive the day it launched. Like literally the day
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all this stuff came out it was already laughed at. It was ridiculous.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was way less capable than everything that was out on day one and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course it never got better. So they were coming from a place of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco deep disrespect for all of this. They seemingly saw it as something they were obligated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do by market forces or the press or whatever and they crapped out some garbage that they didn’t that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could tell they didn’t respect it at all. It was shoved down everyone’s throats through
⏹️ ▶️ Marco promotion in the settings app everywhere. Image playgrounds are here and you know you had to click it and dismiss
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and everything to get it to turn off that stupid red badge for that stupid notification for their stupid promo and their ad for their settings
⏹️ ▶️ Marco app. Not that I’m upset 48 times. They obviously didn’t respect it and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look at how much that has cost them. They are still so far behind. What I wanna see broadly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is signs that they respect it now and have some better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea on how to actually use AI in their products, again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a well-designed, well-integrated way, not just some bolted on crap thing. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you look at the writing tools API they did too. Writing tools are pretty rough
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in large part because they just punted and didn’t make a UI. Like at all,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s no UI. You just like right click your menu and do some stuff and it’s like, well, what if you wanna like adjust stuff or see the diffs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything? Nope, there’s no UI. Because Apple doesn’t know how to make UIs anymore either apparently, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a whole separate topic. But like, I just, again, like I wanna see them take this world seriously
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and show us that you can make good products. So that’s what Apple’s strengths have usually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been is take technology that’s out there, that’s floating around, use their skill,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco their product sense, their design sense, and their UI chops to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make good products out of compelling tech. We have the compelling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tech, we’ve had it for a while, longer than they think so, but it’s been here for a while, maybe they finally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco agree that it’s compelling tech. Now let’s see, can they use this compelling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tech for any good product features, products or integrations.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So far they haven’t. And so if they continue not to,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m kind of worried, honestly. If Apple can’t figure out how to make good products
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with AI or how to integrate AI in a good way into their products for new features
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stuff, what are they doing? Where are they gonna go the next 10 years? Like those are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco major doubts that I have about them that hopefully in a week
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we will be able to say, Oh, it seems like they’ve turned over a new page or a leaf or whatever the expression
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. It seems like they’re now in a better direction and look at the, there are some cool integrations
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here and maybe the betas have some of them working already, hopefully fingers crossed. And maybe we can see like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco signs that they are able to harness this new world and make great stuff with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. We have not yet seen those signs.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s fair for you to not mention this because they didn’t ship it, but what they announced in 2024
⏹️ ▶️ John and didn’t ship is exactly what you’re talking about. Like all the stuff that they said it was going to do, but it never
⏹️ ▶️ John actually did is let’s integrate this intelligence into like, I think the Apple intelligence strategy
⏹️ ▶️ John as articulated as articulated in WC 2024 was and is the best strategy for Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is we have all this data about you. Let’s let the model know it
⏹️ ▶️ John all. and let’s let you talk to the model and have it manipulate all this data in a privacy preserving way on your device. Because
⏹️ ▶️ John like we’re the only one who we’re going to give that kind of access to. We don’t want to, you know, allow a chat GPT to have
⏹️ ▶️ John essentially like the equivalent of like the computer control thing where it just controls your Mac or whatever. We can do
⏹️ ▶️ John that because we’re Apple, but these other things can’t. So we’re going to roll out Apple intelligence and you’ll be able to ask
⏹️ ▶️ John it when your mom’s flight is arriving and it can see your email and see your messages and see all this end to end encrypted stuff and do like
⏹️ ▶️ John that was a thing that would take this technology and make Apple’s products better. they just didn’t ship it. Like that
⏹️ ▶️ John was the problem. And what they did ship is everything you listed, which is like, well, what the heck is this? You don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have a chatbot and you hate chatbots. You’ve got image playgrounds, which no one’s using. You got Genmoji, which no one’s using. You got writing tools,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is half-hearted at best and terrible. You’ve got the image cleanup. It doesn’t run on my wife’s computer. So I’m mad about that.
⏹️ ▶️ John And everything else, like the bulk of what was in WWT24, what I thought of as Apple, the Apple intelligence
⏹️ ▶️ John strategy after that keynote, just didn’t arrive for two years. So this is a chance for them to get
⏹️ ▶️ John back to that. But on the topic of chatbots and again, getting back to Ermin, German, I have some good
⏹️ ▶️ John news, bad news. I think it’s well, we’ll get to it after Casey reads what it is, but I’m, I’m have mixed
⏹️ ▶️ John feelings about the, what is the rumored for a Siri and iOS 27.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So from the 28th of May, Mark German writes, illustrations created by Bloomberg
⏹️ ▶️ Casey show the revamped Siri interface, a new chatbot style app and other major iOS 27 changes that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the company plans to announce the WWDC. The new Siri will include the delayed features announced in 2024,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey such as the ability to understand personal data and analyze on-screen content. But those capabilities
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are just one part of a broader wave of updates, a rebuilt model that uses Google Gemini technology,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey AI-powered web search, and a completely redesigned interface. There’s also a dedicated Siri app designed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to compete more directly with chat, GPT, and other AI assistants. So in summary.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Also, Siri in the camera app alongside photo and video, plus customization of the camera
⏹️ ▶️ Casey app’s toolbar icons. And there are a whole bunch of screenshots in this article. We’ll put a link in the show
⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes. We also have a link in the show notes to a Mac rumors article, which regurgitates a couple of those screenshots.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, these aren’t screenshots, these are mock-ups.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’m sorry, yes, I’m sorry. They
⏹️ ▶️ John commissioned an artist to draw what they had a description of. Here’s what the new Siri interface is gonna look like. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the key parts here is basically like, hey, all that stuff in 2024, now they’re gonna do it more or less. And
⏹️ ▶️ John also, did you want a chat bot? Guess what? The thing that Craig Federighi and Jaws
⏹️ ▶️ John were coming out against two years ago saying, we don’t, chat bots, we don’t think that’s it. Apple is gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John have one built into the OS. You’ll talk back and forth with Siri, which will really be a Gemini
⏹️ ▶️ John powered LM. The interface they show is basically like, if you pull down from the top, like the dynamic island expands
⏹️ ▶️ John to be a search box like always. But what the search box has in it now is like, search or ask, where
⏹️ ▶️ John you can ask, and presumably that goes to Apple’s, you know, model that’s powered by Gemini. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you can also go to chat GPT in this thing and supposedly it’s third party pluggable, so there may be some competition there, but
⏹️ ▶️ John then they have screenshots of a chat app, an LLM powered chat app where you’re talking to chat to,
⏹️ ▶️ John to Siri, uh, and it’s all like dark mode and you ask questions and to give responses
⏹️ ▶️ John and it, it looks, the mockup looks like chat GPT basically in dark mode, only you’re not talking to chat GPT.
⏹️ ▶️ John And, uh, you know, obviously tons of people want to use,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, AI chatbots because they do, they use them. I’m still not entirely
⏹️ ▶️ John sure that Apple needs to, or should make one because I’m, I’m, I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re going to make cannot possibly be as good as the, the
⏹️ ▶️ John real chatbots, like using chat GPT directly using Claude directly. those
⏹️ ▶️ John are, I just don’t see how Apple can keep up. Those things get updated all the time and keep improving and
⏹️ ▶️ John keep getting better and better. And Apple probably can’t keep up and they’re gonna give you this out to go to the third
⏹️ ▶️ John party ones anyways. So it’s like this weird way point on your way to go into a real
⏹️ ▶️ John product that people actually like and use. You can stop off midway through and talk to Apple, Siri
⏹️ ▶️ John back and forth. And yeah, it’ll be smarter than Siri has ever been before because that’s not hard. But really, if you wanna actually
⏹️ ▶️ John have a productive, serious conversation, you should go to one of the third party chatbots because
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re gonna be better. And when Federighi and Jaws were saying, we think chatbots is
⏹️ ▶️ John not it, that’s not the way to do it, they were trying to contrast that to, hey, it’s just gonna be,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just gonna be features of your phone that’ll be powered by this stuff under the covers, but you won’t know it, your phone will just be more capable.
⏹️ ▶️ John And they felt like just punting and saying, well, we’re not gonna do any of that, instead there’s a window where you can type text back and forth.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like they already have that, it’s on the iPhone, It’s called the chat GPT app. It’s called the cloud. Like you just that those are third party apps. And
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple seems like they are rumors to be believed. They’re saying we have to have one of those two.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I just I have no confidence that the one they have will be competitive. I just even though
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re even though they’re using Google Gemini under the covers, like so you would think like, well, at least
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be roughly competitive with Google. I’m I don’t believe that. I think it will be worse. I
⏹️ ▶️ John think it will have fewer features. I think it will advance more slowly and kind of like how in current iOS, when you go to
⏹️ ▶️ John chat GPT through Siri with the integration that they’ve had with open AI since 2024 or whatever, that
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s worse than going to chat GPT directly. I think that will be true of talking to Siri.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I’m not enthusiastic about it. I’m enthusiastic about them rolling out the promise features
⏹️ ▶️ John in 2024, where it just I can ask my phone something and it can look at all the data that only it can see because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s private on my device and do useful stuff. That’s something that can’t be matched by the third party clients because Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John won’t let them because Apple doesn’t give them access to your stuff. So that I’m looking forward to, but I cannot see myself
⏹️ ▶️ John ever saying, you know what? I want to talk to an LLM chat bot and you know what I’m going to do? I’m going
⏹️ ▶️ John to launch the Siri app and do that. I just don’t see that happening. There’s there so far behind that. I don’t feel like
⏹️ ▶️ John they are going to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I don’t think they’ve ever shown the ability to be competitive in things like this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, in many ways. What Apple’s software has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has seemed like in, oh, jeez, maybe a decade is it just seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s moving at a fairly leisurely pace in almost every way except
⏹️ ▶️ Marco designs which they’re happy to rush and shove through but like what with the exception of redesigns
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which they love apparently with with that exception the rest of it seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just move glacially now I understand this is a significant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco challenge at their scale they have a lot of platforms they update them all pretty much in lockstep.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s not a small job. That’s also a self-created problem and optional, but hey, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a small job. I get that. But what it has seemed like, you know, for a long
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time is that they just aren’t stepping on the gas in this new,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this new era. It seems like they’re coasting in software. They’re not really pushing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things people want to push. They’re not really, you know, participating in this new this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole new boom much and even even among things that they even if we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco set aside AI for a minute Apple software just doesn’t move that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco quickly and they don’t you know like what you were just saying like they they will put something out there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then it just dies like they it just gets ignored or you know they’ll do the first 80% of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something and show off a good demo at WBC and you’ll never hear about it again it’ll never get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that last 20% of effort put to it. It’ll just kind of sit there in mediocrity forever until it’s eventually discontinued
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or replaced. That happens with so much of Apple software and you know it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from from things like APIs all the way up to apps like entire apps like that that happens a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it just seems like they’re just coasting and not really stepping on the gas. It seems like they don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really maybe they don’t think they need to. I don’t know but the entire
⏹️ ▶️ Marco industry is exploding and booming right now with all sorts of new potential.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we’re not only we’re not seeing Apple take advantage of the new potential
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or use the time and resources to polish up all the stuff they already do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Neither one of those things is happening. And so again, like show signs of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some change of direction or ability, or even just caring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco show signs that they can care. And follow through with something,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco show signs are stepping on the gas, show signs that they’re like, that they’re actually active
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and trying to be competitive in some way, instead of just coasting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and resting on their laurels and collecting fees, because they’re really good at those things, but let’s,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco let’s see them really push on the products a little more.
⏹️ ▶️ John There, another one of the rumors is third party integration, integration of third party AI that that’ll be pluggable,
⏹️ ▶️ John that it won’t just be this one deal with open AI, but that you’ll be able to pick from the leading vendors. And you know, this is
⏹️ ▶️ John the other strategy that lots of people talk about is like apples need to do this. They just need to integrate with the third parties. Just,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, they don’t, they don’t need to do everything. They’re already the, the platform that people use their mobile,
⏹️ ▶️ John the mobile platform. People use these apps from the most. So why don’t they just integrate? Why don’t they just give integration? I mean, one
⏹️ ▶️ John of the reasons they don’t want to do that is obviously they’re willing to to give their own LLM stuff access
⏹️ ▶️ John to all your contacts and all your messages and all your mail and blah, blah, blah, because they’re Apple and they trust themselves, right? And
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t trust, you know, Facebook, open AI, Anthropic to
⏹️ ▶️ John get access to that same data. In theory, they could do it in a privacy preserving way by having really limited
⏹️ ▶️ John APIs, but in the end, those companies are probably just like, well, we’ll just continue to get people to
⏹️ ▶️ John download our app and onto their phone and use it that way. So there is a place for a system integration. And the rumor is they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John supposed to, you know, have more third-party LLM integration.
⏹️ ▶️ John Does that mean every single place you could ask Siri, there will be a choice to ask some third-party thing? Do you, will you only get to pick one?
⏹️ ▶️ John Will it only be surfaces in some places? That remains to be seen, but that’s one of the rumors. Another one in the screens, actually,
⏹️ ▶️ John you see the camera app having a, you know, instead of like photo, video, portrait, blah, blah,
⏹️ ▶️ John that Siri will be an option because they’re basically taking visual intelligence, which was previously hidden under like a, whatever, with
⏹️ ▶️ John long press on the action button or whatever the heck the default shortcut is, they’re gonna put that right into the camera app, which
⏹️ ▶️ John I think is a good idea, but that brings up the third-party integration thing. Okay, I think the camera app should
⏹️ ▶️ John have a thing that says, hey, what is this? You know, that’s a question you’ve been able to ask with like Google Lens for
⏹️ ▶️ John like a decade, I guess, and LLMs are way better at it than those old things used to be. Will the
⏹️ ▶️ John only option be to use the quote-unquote Siri camera to ask Siri, which then asks the Google Gemini
⏹️ ▶️ John model, or will you be able to say in settings somewhere, What do you wanna
⏹️ ▶️ John use for the thing where you point your camera at something and ask it what it is? And you could say, oh, I’ve got a chat GPT subscription. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna set that to chat GPT and not Siri. It seems like that’s not gonna happen, but that’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John type of third-party integration that it’s like, you have to choose Apple. Are you gonna do everything and actually keep up with it?
⏹️ ▶️ John I think you’re not gonna keep up with it. Or are you going to provide the integration needed? In this case,
⏹️ ▶️ John like in the camera app, I think they could do that in a privacy-preserving way, allow a third-party
⏹️ ▶️ John model, you know, like do some integration, maybe not in this release, maybe there’ll be a future release or whatever, but
⏹️ ▶️ John when I look at this feature, I’m like, okay, but if I really wanted to know what it was, would I ever use Siri camera
⏹️ ▶️ John or would I launch the chat GPT app and use that directly just because I know from experience
⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s gonna do a better job? Or would I use Google Lens because I know from experience that’s gonna do it, but it’s not called
⏹️ ▶️ John that anymore. Whatever the heck it’s called now. In practice, I frequently use the Google app. I think I described when I had a halogen
⏹️ ▶️ John bulb or whatever. I didn’t go to an LLM, I went to Google image search or whatever because it does a good job. that’s probably powered
⏹️ ▶️ John by Gemini behind the scenes anyway. I don’t know. I don’t care. But the point is I went to their app and I
⏹️ ▶️ John think that will continue to be the case. So I expect WWDC to be this weird mix of weird
⏹️ ▶️ John doing a bunch of stuff and we don’t suck as bad as we used to. And we’re like, okay, well, you know, good. Not sucking as bad
⏹️ ▶️ John as Siri is a low bar, but you need to do that. But also will there be some push for like,
⏹️ ▶️ John and also we have third party integrations and select places. And that seems like it’s going
⏹️ ▶️ John to be a more halfhearted, which is kind of a shame because I feel like that’s what they should be doing. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John if they, if they are not going to be able to keep up with the big
⏹️ ▶️ John third parties in terms of the stuff, they should be really good about integrating them. And in the
⏹️ ▶️ John areas where only quote unquote only Apple can do it for privacy reasons, that’s where they should put all their effort.
⏹️ ▶️ John Do those features that nobody else can do. And you know, maybe someday plug a third party
⏹️ ▶️ John thing into that. But, but we’ll see, I don’t want to prejudge it because again, maybe they’re using Google’s model, so maybe it won’t
⏹️ ▶️ John suck as bad as we think it will. But I put it this way. I look forward to
⏹️ ▶️ John being able to talk to my phone, my thousand dollar whatever iPhone, whatever pro
⏹️ ▶️ John the same way I can talk to my twenty five dollar Amazon Echo puck that I won in a raffle
⏹️ ▶️ John ten years ago because I can talk to that one. You know what? That one’s backed on some server by some decent
⏹️ ▶️ John model. I talk to it. I don’t care how I phrase sentences. I just say any old crap and it gives me
⏹️ ▶️ John reasonable responses. I cannot do that with my phone and that that hopefully will change
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s hard for us to have any faith in Apple’s abilities in this area because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Siri hasn’t even done like the 10 years ago feature set reliably and well over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this time and when you look at modern LLM tech it seems like it would be a godsend
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to something like Siri because you know where Siri fell down in so many
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so many ways you know some of it was just like basic reliability and and responsiveness and stuff like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco server failures, response failures and everything. That’s a different problem that they also need to solve. But where a seer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would often fall down is like, mis-parsing what you meant by your command. Or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you ask, or like it asks something, you give a follow-up and it like kind of figures
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the wrong direction on what that follow-up meant. Or what you were asking or what you were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying, or it drops the thread or whatever. LLMs are really good at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the natural language interface. They’re really good at taking sloppy human
⏹️ ▶️ Marco input, figuring out what they meant and what a good answer to that would be and delivering
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. And so you would think that this would be exactly what Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs, not to become chat GPT, but to just become a good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Siri. That’s ultimately what we need from Siri, what we want from you. You know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Johnny, you’re right. Apple’s never going to be as aggressive about updates, as aggressive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about features. Like they’re never, cause again, they can’t step on the gas. They are so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slow at so many of these areas. So we know they’re not gonna replace the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco desire for most people to have the chat GPT or cloud or Gemini apps on their phones and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use them all the time. Siri is not gonna compete with that for most people and Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shouldn’t try. And I don’t even know if they are trying it. you know, the app redesign that was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rumored for Siri could just be like a better way to access Siri instead of it just being in these like ephemeral
⏹️ ▶️ Marco floating blobs that just are gone the second that you’ve stopped looking at them, which is probably a good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco strategy for it. But ultimately what we want from Siri is for it to just deliver on what it has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco always supposed to deliver on, better and reliably. And they should be able
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do that with modern LLM tech. It should help them do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s what I want to see. I don’t need them to become Gemini or Claude.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I need them to become Siri. To actually do Siri
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well. That’s what I want to see. And if they just put a new UI
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the same old crap Siri again, then that’s not really going to do it for me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think, I mean look, we keep giving them chances. Over and over again. Every year,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the last few years, there’s been rumors that series about to get better. It hasn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe this will be the year that they get something other than a superficial interface tweak
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or a superficial, you know, you know, tweak to its basic behavior, but I want to see
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something beyond superficial. I want to see the results of them having
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stepped on the gas ever on Siri and actually being able to deliver something better.
⏹️ ▶️ John You keep using the car analogy. I think the serious situation is that the last car they were in exploded.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then they had to build a new car and clean up the wreckage from the old ones. So thus the delay.
⏹️ ▶️ John Although, again, we talked about this in the past episode, that like supposedly like the 26.4 update was supposed
⏹️ ▶️ John to have a bunch of Siri advances and they kept delaying that. So if they announce, you know, all
⏹️ ▶️ John these Siri features that we just described at a WWDC at the keynote and they say, but
⏹️ ▶️ John actually some of these features are not shipping until the fall. Well, then we’re going to be like, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John which features, you know, the ones that are actually good and that make Siri not suck.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ll see. We’ll see. You’ll see what they’ve learned, because I feel like they’ve had their hard lessons about announcing things at WWDC.
⏹️ ▶️ John But everything that we just went through with the German river seemed pretty solid. A chatbot interface, Gemini powered Siri,
⏹️ ▶️ John the photos thing or whatever. So I think they’ll have some good features and I think they will, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John because again, the Gemini deal, the Gemini deal is the thing gives me the most faith. I know Gemini exists and works
⏹️ ▶️ John and I used it. And so if that is powering their back end, I know they’ll probably make it a little bit worse, but hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ John they won’t be able to make it that much worse.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. We’ll see what happens. I just, I hope there’s more to this than just AI talk. And I mean both WWDC
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the rest of this episode because we’ve caught on it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you should go to the Mac OS topic next. Oh God, because none of us have opinions about that. All right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least. All right. The 10th of May. It’s also not intelligent. Oh, sick burn.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The 10th of May, Mark Erman writes, though the Mac software introduced the same Liquid Glass interface seen in iOS 26,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the design language hasn’t translated as smoothly to the larger displays and different input methods
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of desktops and laptops. Part of the reason is that Liquid Glass was created with more
⏹️ ▶️ Casey modern hardware in mind. I’m sorry. What? I believe
⏹️ ▶️ John it was… Keep reading until we get to the end of this ridiculousness.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so, yeah, fair enough. So let me repeat what I just said. I just said part of the reason is that liquid glass
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was created with more modern hardware in mind The crisp OLED displays are used on iPhones some iPads and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple watches max also continue to use LCD displays Which don’t render translucency shadows
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and glass effects as effectively as OLED screens. I’m sorry. What the fuck is he on? What
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about? This is like we can fix the butterfly keyboard reaching to put a gasket under all the keys. That’ll fix it, right? Well, no, so
⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the thing because of Mark Herman’s infuriating writing style. Let’s call it
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s impossible for me to tell if the BS that you just read is Mark Gurman offering opinion
⏹️ ▶️ John or conjecture or if it’s sourced. I think it’s Mark Gurman offering opinion or conjecture and that
⏹️ ▶️ John opinion or conjecture is stupid. Yes. Because can’t render translucency on an
⏹️ ▶️ John LCD. Why? Like if the contrast is higher and you get
⏹️ ▶️ John better blacks on an OLED, but rendering translucency has to do with compositing multiple layers
⏹️ ▶️ John to come up with the final pixel color, Like, Aqua on 10.0 on LCDs
⏹️ ▶️ John had plenty of translucency and it was rendered fine. So the OLED thing just makes no sense to me. The best
⏹️ ▶️ John I can come up with is if you have a bad quality display and you have a UI that has like
⏹️ ▶️ John barely any difference between two adjoining shades of white, that it looks bad. But that’s not the LCD’s
⏹️ ▶️ John fault. That’s the fault of the person who made a UI where you have two colors of white that are almost the
⏹️ ▶️ John same right next to each other. That’s the problem. And it doesn’t look any better on OLED. OLED correctly renders the
⏹️ ▶️ John tiny difference in whites between the two things and so do LCDs. So this is old news, I know, but
⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s infuriating because it’s like, of all the nonsense reasons to try to excuse liquid
⏹️ ▶️ John glass on the Mac, blaming it on the lack of OLED screens for Mac is just the
⏹️ ▶️ John most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. And I don’t think this has anything to do with Apple. I don’t think an Apple source is saying this. I don’t think anyone
⏹️ ▶️ John at Apple would agree with this. So I’m just really dumping on Mark Gurman. But in case you heard this, they’re like, oh, liquid glass
⏹️ ▶️ John looks bad because Macs don’t have OLED screens that’s gonna change soon. A, it’s not gonna change that soon, so don’t worry about that. And B,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not why liquid glass in the Mac is bad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because it turns out, blurry text is not going to be solved
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by OLED screens. You know, if you look at most of liquid glass’s failures,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, because again, like, I wanna be clear, I don’t hate everything about liquid glass. I just think it has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some bad designs. Number one for me is text in a computer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco UI should never be blurry, period. I will hear no
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other arguments on that topic. Blurry text is bad design. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where do you see blurry text in liquid glass? Everywhere, okay? Why? Because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they made a bar-less design, basically. You have navigation bars, toolbars, and sidebars,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they decided all of those things should either be gone, but still have their controls float,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or be very, very, very translucent to the point where they get these blur overlays
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and these blur effects at the edges. So Liquid Glass, the design, is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco filled with basically kludges, hacks, bad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hacks, that they’re like, okay, we started from a place of we want everything to be transparent and floating over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the content, to respect the content. Blah, okay, but we’re gonna float everything over the content and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be translucent. So then, okay, how do scrolling bars work? Oh, well, I guess
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll, we have to blur things, you know, progressively blur them as they get closer to the edges so they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco scroll better or whatever. Like that was a bad solution to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a precondition they created with the design that should probably be revisited. Because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s better than blurring text is not creating the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco conditions that you need to blur the text to use the controls. Okay, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look at designs to do that. Maybe bars are the solution. I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just throwing it out there, because I think we might’ve had those in the past and they might’ve been fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe some kind of bars to separate content
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from control areas. Bear with me. Maybe the controls
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shouldn’t be on top of and blended in with the content. Maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to respect the content, Having the controls be separate is not only better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the design, but also better for the controls and better for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the content. I know that’s very radical today, but just consider
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the possib- So anyway, what Liquid Glass needs, and what I am hoping to see, although
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t expect much, but what I am hoping to see is tweaks to the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco design that still keep some of the aesthetic of it, that like the parts that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are good because there are parts of it that are good but that remove
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the need for bad hacks like blurring text everywhere
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that is always a bad hack the other thing I would love to see removed is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have this amazing system where when you have an app with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a sidebar the sidebar is supposed to be translucent now and content is supposed to appear under it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, what if there isn’t content under it? Because what if like the thing that is on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the right side, like the content area, what if it doesn’t have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco additional content that is under the bar on the left, logically speaking, or that content would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be inaccessible? Well they have a whole system they recommend that you do where you mirror
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a fake mirror of the content on the right under the bar on the left just for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the purposes of blurring under that bar. So you’re blurring mirrored fake
⏹️ ▶️ Marco content under it. So you get color blobs going through there. So liquid glass looks coherent.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is the most ridiculous thing ever. That’s the kind of hack that like if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your design requires that to look coherent, it’s a bad design system that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs to be revisited. That needs to be iterated. So, what I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to see is Liquid Glass being tweaked to need
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fewer crappy hacks that make for crappy UI. And that’s blurry text
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and fake blurred content.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, I mean you’re not wrong. And the thing of it is, is that I am actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mostly okay with Liquid Glass, which I know is blasphemous and I’m probably going to get fired for saying that, but I’m mostly okay with it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it’s certainly least well considered on macOS. Again, this is not an original thought,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I would really love to see, I think some people in our little commentariat
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or whatever the word is I’m looking for, are like, oh, they should just crap, you know, put it in the can and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey walk away from liquid glass. And A, they’re never gonna do that. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco B- Never gonna happen.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t think it’s necessary. Like there are some grumbly people on Mastodon that are like, oh, I should just walk it back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and never touch it again. I don’t think that’s necessary. I think it looks pretty good, even on macOS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the most part. But I think it would be nice to do what they did as we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all said last summer, do what they did with iOS seven and walk back some of the more aggressive stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to make it a little more, I almost said well-rounded, that’s probably not the phrase I want here, but make
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a little more palatable. And I, I think there’ll be some of that. I doubt
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’ll call attention to it, but I think there’ll be some of it. And I’m looking forward to it. I’m looking forward to it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on all the platforms, even though I think as we all agree and again not an original thought. I think macOS needs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it the most but I would like to see it pretty much everywhere. I think everywhere could stand to be improved
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also I would say like again even setting aside design changes the implementation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is still very sloppy and half-baked too. Like they’re like one of the worst things about on iOS.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like a floating glass button like a toolbar button if If you tap the edge
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that button, it plays the animation of you tapping the button, but the button
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tap does not fire. So if you don’t hit the middle of a button,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can think you’re hitting a button and it doesn’t actually trigger the action. And there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is no way for the underlying app to change that a lot of the time. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like there’s little implementation bugs or like, you know, bad animations. Like there’s little bugs like this all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco over the system that make it difficult for us as developers to make good UIs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with Liquid Glass. And so let’s assume that you like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Liquid Glass and support it and want it to stay, well then at least
⏹️ ▶️ Marco give us the ability to make good apps with it. Like make it work better.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Obviously there’s, I’m gonna have my opinion about changes to the components, things like bars and stuff, fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But even if you don’t change anything like that, make the current system work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better. Cause it right now it still is full of paper cuts.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So continuing with what Mark Gurman said, I’m told the company is preparing what people internally consider to be a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote, slight redesign quote for Mac OS 27. With the next update, Apple aims to address
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the shadows and transparency quirks. Last year’s operating systems didn’t necessarily suffer from design problems I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey told, rather a not completely baked implementation from Apple software engineering team. So
⏹️ ▶️ John this gets to what Marco was saying. It’s like, okay, well, the stuff didn’t work well. And so I totally
⏹️ ▶️ John agree that like what they shipped was filled with bugs. I’ve had to deal with them for an entire year. On Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John OS, they were really bad. On other platforms, they also have problems. And this is Source,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is not just German. So he’s saying what he’s told and what people internally
⏹️ ▶️ John consider to be a slight redesign. Whoever the internal source
⏹️ ▶️ John was that said the system doesn’t necessarily suffer from design problems, but just did not complete implementation,
⏹️ ▶️ John Why not both as they say? Yeah, the implementation was bad and not completely baked. I 100% agree. You know
⏹️ ▶️ John what else was bad? The design. As Marco just got through explaining, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why this, I mean, I guess, I think this doesn’t bother people just because they don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John see how this design leads to all the problems they’re seeing. And they think like, oh, we can fix this by
⏹️ ▶️ John just tweaking things and changing transparency and you can improve things. But, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I made a list of these three things many months ago when I was trying to boil it down to what’s wrong with liquid glass, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John basically the fundamental thing of like, I don’t know, picture an image editor and you open
⏹️ ▶️ John an image and the image is a picture of somebody and the entire picture fills the window. It’s like, okay, there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John the picture. All right. But liquid glass says, okay, but in this application, you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John just look at the picture. We want you to have tools so you can like edit the picture or crop the picture or scribble on the picture
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. And the liquid glass solution to this is take that picture that’s filling the window
⏹️ ▶️ John and take a bunch of capsule shaped things and drop them on top
⏹️ ▶️ John of the edges of the picture so they’re floating on top of the picture. And now you can’t see part
⏹️ ▶️ John of the picture because the controls are floating on top of it. And then that’s where we get into things that Marco was talking about. Okay, but what if
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to see the thing that’s like the tool palette is blocking the picture? What if I want to see that? Can’t I just scroll
⏹️ ▶️ John the picture so it’s not underneath the toolbar? No, you can’t because then what would be underneath the toolbar. So now you’ve got to do the
⏹️ ▶️ John mirror image thing. And it’s like, this is just plain a bad idea. You don’t start with content
⏹️ ▶️ John edge to edge and then drop a bunch of capsules on top of it. That’s a bad idea. That is fundamentally
⏹️ ▶️ John a bad design for a user interface for a million reasons that we’re all experiencing, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John developers more than other people. But just there’s no way around it. You either can’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John content underneath the thing, in which case, it’s not floating on top of the content anymore. Or you can. And once you do have
⏹️ ▶️ John something floating on top of the content, then you want to show it through. And that’s also a bad idea. And then you want to be able to see the
⏹️ ▶️ John whole image. Now you got to do the mirror blur thing, or it’s just a bad idea. And as Marco
⏹️ ▶️ John said, like this wasn’t a problem that needed to be solved. This is a new problem that they have introduced
⏹️ ▶️ John with a bad design, which by the way, also had a bad implementation. Now in Mac OS 27,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s still going to be, the ideal is a bunch of content edge to edge with a bunch of things dropped on top
⏹️ ▶️ John of it floating. That’s not going to change. All they’re talking about is maybe we’ll tweak some of the blurred
⏹️ ▶️ John edge things and the transparency and the blah, blah, blah. But the fundamental design of liquid glass, we are stuck with for probably a
⏹️ ▶️ John very long time, and that fundamental design is bad. It’s not the worst thing
⏹️ ▶️ John ever. It doesn’t break the computer. You can still use it. It’s fine. But it’s a bunch of bad ideas.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it just kills me that they’re going to spend brainpower and years and years of effort to try to take what
⏹️ ▶️ John is a fundamentally bad idea for a user interface and try to make it as least bad as possible
⏹️ ▶️ John when they could have gone in a million other directions. It would have been like, let’s identify problems that people are having
⏹️ ▶️ John with UI and solve them versus let’s identify something that has here to for not been a problem and make it a
⏹️ ▶️ John problem and spend the next half decade fixing that problem. And that is frustrating, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I still, I welcome any improvements to liquid glass, but it’s,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we have to wait for the next big redesign for them to fix this because it’s just so fundamental to everything they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John done. Um, we got to wait for the stupid 20th anniversary phone. They’d be like, see, this is why
⏹️ ▶️ John they did it. It’s like, no, you could have it bars in that phone too. It wouldn’t find. But anyway, um, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John it is something to look forward to is to see how they tweak it. And also honestly, as from a developer’s perspective, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John please do fix the bugs because setting aside the bad ideas in the design when things just don’t work,
⏹️ ▶️ John that makes everybody sad. So I hope they do make a lot of progress there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Beyond this is still German beyond adjusting the look, look of liquid glass.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple will focus on bug fixes, battery life upgrades, and performance improvements. Yay. Another new iOS 27 and MacOS 27
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feature is a potentially helpful addition to Safari that mimics something Google Chrome has had for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey years. Oh no, I smell AI coming. Apple’s testing a feature that can automatically organize tabs into groups.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey When enabled, the system says that tabs will group into topics you browse.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The feature isn’t labeled as an Apple intelligence enhancement in the system, but it’s clearly using some form of AI to work.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I think that is a useful feature. Like people, no one wants a manual. Most people don’t want to manually organize their tabs. Most
⏹️ ▶️ John people have no organization whatsoever. And if there was a feature of Safari that said, it looks like these are the tabs where you’re trying to figure
⏹️ ▶️ John out what refrigerator you’re going to buy. And these are the tabs where you’re ordering takeout. And you know what I mean? Like that it could put them into groups
⏹️ ▶️ John because Safari has had tab groups and pin tabs and stuff like that for a long time, but only the most meticulous
⏹️ ▶️ John people actually use them. So some kind of machine learning powered sort of, Oh, it looks like you’re,
⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like you’re trying to write a letter, a clippy style thing where it makes a tab groups for you could be cool.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is also a good test of Apple’s ability not to shove this crap in your face.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right. Is it going to be like image playgrounds again and where you’re not going to be able to launch Siri and without it shoving
⏹️ ▶️ John this, you know, we can smartly organize your, it’s like, okay, okay, chill out. If it’s a feature people want, like
⏹️ ▶️ John I know you got to make it discoverable or whatever, but like, don’t, I don’t need it to be thrown in my face
⏹️ ▶️ John a million times. Just do a good job on the feature, support it and see how
⏹️ ▶️ John well it’s adopted. But yeah, I don’t, Hopefully it doesn’t mess up the interface too much, but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, there’s no escaping Apple intelligence machine learning features, even in Safari.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So there’s been a lot of hardware that we keep hearing has been delayed by Siri. There’s the alleged
⏹️ ▶️ Casey HomePod with a screen. There’s the God forsaken Apple TV.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am desperate to get a new Apple TV so I can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John trickle down.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want to trickle down because I have like a three generation back one in the tailgate top that is also my travel
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple TV. and that’s the problem. The current
⏹️ ▶️ John have bought a new Apple TV for your tub.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I should have. I didn’t realize I was gonna be waiting 18 frigging years. No, the one
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the living room, which is the most modern one, I can’t keep the generation straight. The one in the living room is great. Occasionally it feels
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a touch slow, but 99% of the time it’s great. The one we have in the bedroom, which is one generation back,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is 80% of the time pretty good, if not great. Occasionally it’s a little meh, but generally speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s more than enough. The tailgate tub one is, what is that? Two generations back, and it’s getting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey real rough down there. So, and again, the tailgate tub one is our travel one. And yes, you can laugh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at me and say it’s unnecessary to bring an Apple TV with me, but you know what? Not only is it unnecessary, but it’s something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I enjoy. So get off my back. But anyways, the point is I really need that one to get upgraded, which really means
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wanna do a trickle down. And so please Apple, for the love of God, I don’t think I’ll be able to get to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacRumors Buyer’s Guide quick enough, but suffice to say, it’s been like 300 frigging
⏹️ ▶️ Casey years since the Apple TV has been updated. It is really preposterous.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey make it. I think it’s been four years. 1,324 days, October of 2022. So we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are coming upon four years, four years.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is basically half of my youngest child’s life. She has only known one Apple TV,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is a phrase I kind of wish I could have back now, but I’ve already said it, so here we are. Anyway, so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe an Apple TV with an A17 Pro or perhaps a revised remote. Again, I’ve always been an Apple TV
⏹️ ▶️ Casey remote apologist, especially the current one I actually really, really like. So that doesn’t bother me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey any, but I know I’m standing mostly alone on that. And for those of you who enjoy HomePods,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey particularly the HomePod mini, maybe there’ll be a new one of those too. You never know.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so the Apple TV and the HomePod mini are rumored to have been done for just ages. They’re just sitting there. The hardware
⏹️ ▶️ John has been done for months and months and months, but of course they can’t ship them like so many of these things, like the HomePod with the screen,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is also rumored to have had the hardware been done for months and months and months, because they rely on
⏹️ ▶️ John Siri not sucking and having features that they said were gonna be ready, but aren’t. And so the hardware has just
⏹️ ▶️ John been sitting there gone. I mean, I guess they could have shipped things like the Apple TV without it, and just, you know, but they’ve just
⏹️ ▶️ John like, we’re gonna, it’s a flagship feature of the, you know, TV OS 27. It’s got, you know, it’s all of a piece.
⏹️ ▶️ John So a lot of hardware has been delayed. And if you’re gonna delay some hardware, this is probably the hardware to delay. It’s fine, especially
⏹️ ▶️ John like HomePod with the screen, which I don’t know if people are clamoring for. But the rumor is that now
⏹️ ▶️ John that the 27 OSs are gonna be announced, this hardware is free to be released. The question is, will Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John mention any of this hardware at WWDC? Some of the rumors say, yeah, they’re gonna introduce all of this hardware at WWDC, because
⏹️ ▶️ John why wouldn’t they? It’s been sitting around, it’s totally ready to go. They probably already have all the promo. It’s like,
⏹️ ▶️ John why wouldn’t they launch them? But then I look at this hardware, I’m like, when Apple announces hardware at WWDC,
⏹️ ▶️ John they usually like to have some kind of like flag bearer, really impressive, exciting thing, like
⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook Pros or something, which, you know, again, those are the old ones, they’re not coming out until much later. So they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not gonna be announced but and I don’t think any one of these devices or even all three of these devices are Significant enough
⏹️ ▶️ John for them to give them a slot at WODC, but who knows maybe they don’t have a lot of other things to talk about
⏹️ ▶️ John So I’m not actually expecting these to come out at WODC, but I am expecting them to come out
⏹️ ▶️ John Shortly after because or at least be announced shortly after I think they can’t ship obviously until the 27
⏹️ ▶️ John OS has actually come out So maybe fall ish But yeah The one I’m the one
⏹️ ▶️ John I actually I’m most excited about is the Apple TV not because of the trickle-down reason but just because it is old and
⏹️ ▶️ John The vague rumors of a possibly revised remote even if it’s just like we made one
⏹️ ▶️ John of the buttons Microscopically concave when before was microscopically convex or whatever. They
⏹️ ▶️ John already do that on the buttons But it’s so slight anyway any change that remote will be good for me It is much better than the remote
⏹️ ▶️ John it replaced but I still feel like there’s tons of room for improvement and I have frequently found cursing that remote
⏹️ ▶️ John because when the skip intro button comes up and you know it’s only there for a brief period of time I
⏹️ ▶️ John have a short window of time with which I have to grab the Apple TV remote
⏹️ ▶️ John off of whatever end table that it’s on and I have to press the one and only
⏹️ ▶️ John largest button on this remote to activate the skip intro button and my success rate
⏹️ ▶️ John at that is terrible and I refuse to blame myself I’m a good video game player I can press
⏹️ ▶️ John buttons why is it so hard because I haven’t fully Disabled the touch interface
⏹️ ▶️ John and why have I not fully disabled touch interface and settings? Because it is actually the fastest most efficient way
⏹️ ▶️ John to navigate the UI But it also totally destroys my ability to press buttons without accidentally swiping or something So
⏹️ ▶️ John I really don’t like the remote even though it is better than the one that replaced it And I’m looking forward to any mild revisions and
⏹️ ▶️ John hey a 17 pro And you know, I think they need that one because it’s it’ll run quote-unquote Apple intelligence,
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever the heck that means But maybe that will mean When I talk to my Siri remote and ask it
⏹️ ▶️ John to do TV things, it’ll be slightly better It’s already pretty good because it’s it’s problem domain is so narrow normally when I say
⏹️ ▶️ John You know press the remote and say watch blah blah blah It does a pretty good job of finding that maybe if they make it LL empowered
⏹️ ▶️ John I can have more sophisticated conversations like show me, you know watch blah blah blah But show me the version
⏹️ ▶️ John I bought on the iTunes Store and not any of the other ones and it will understand that when I say It just like that
⏹️ ▶️ John My Amazon puck could do it So I’m looking forward to that and
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not particularly excited about the home part with the screen But who knows? Dazzle me. But again, I don’t think this stuff will
⏹️ ▶️ John be announced. What do you think? Will there be will there be any hardware WWDC? And if so, will this be among the hardware?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The only reason I can imagine there being hardware, and I think upgrade was saying this this week, is that that would give a convenient
⏹️ ▶️ Casey excuse for for Ternus to be emceeing for at least
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a portion of it. And maybe we can look at the tea leaves about the way this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going to be handled. We should talk about that before we end the segment. But I could see that as like a convenient
⏹️ ▶️ Casey excuse, but leaving that aside. No, I don’t think they’re going to talk about hardware.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And again, I didn’t gather up all the rumors and maybe some other rumor hardware, but as far as I know, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, nothing, nothing big. It’s just these, these ones are people rumoring these ones because they’re ready
⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re ready. Doesn’t mean they’re going to be announced or, you know, WWC. Cause
⏹️ ▶️ John they can’t ship until the 27 hours is around and that’s not going to happen until fall at the earliest or not fall, but when, when
⏹️ ▶️ John does IOS usually come out as it fall? Yeah. It’s usually, you know, early September. Yeah, I guess early fall
⏹️ ▶️ John versus sometimes later fall. Mac OS will come out later fall, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they just ship it when at the state it’s in an early fall, like they did with 26.0. And that was terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, we know they’re going to ship it. They’re going to ship it with the new iPhones. That’s it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John They usually
⏹️ ▶️ John delay. Yeah, I’m saying for Mac OS, they used to delay Mac OS until like October sometimes, but this most
⏹️ ▶️ John recent year, I feel like they didn’t do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Nope. They I mean, this is, you know, modern Apple. They they ship whatever they’ve got at that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time, whether it’s finished or not. They shove it out there.
⏹️ ▶️ John I have, yeah, I have, I was going to say constants, but I have let vars in my code
⏹️ ▶️ John for Mac OS 26.0, Mac OS 26.1, Mac OS 26.2, Mac OS, these are all, I
⏹️ ▶️ John have conditions on all of these things in my code to say, okay, in 26.0, you needed
⏹️ ▶️ John to do this, but then 26.1, you need to do this, and because of like tweaks to metrics and controls,
⏹️ ▶️ John it didn’t work. So yeah, the 26.0 last release has just been a nightmare in terms of
⏹️ ▶️ John how the bugs have shifted and moved around in Mac OS using Swift UI or whatever. So I’m looking forward
⏹️ ▶️ John to 27, not repeating that. And maybe I can just have one thing that says 27 or later.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s talk names. Mac rumors had noticed way back when that a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bunch of shell companies had registered, I think trademarks, it doesn’t really matter, but had done something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to just basically pee on and claim as their own, a bunch of different names and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of those that have been used already or the taking away the ones that have been used already Mac rumors
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has come up with the following list as potential names, California Condor Diablo
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Farallon grizzly. Mammoth Miramar Pacific red tail,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Redwood Rincon Shasta, or maybe Shasta. I don’t even know. Skyline and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tiburon of these options. Are there any of the jump at jump out at you as absolutely? Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey absolutely. know, or maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, to begin with, uh, I want to say that. I hope that
⏹️ ▶️ John they continue to give MacOS names. They don’t have to be California names, but it’s one of the last
⏹️ ▶️ John places of like fun for the sake of fun in Apple’s products. Everything else is so regimented,
⏹️ ▶️ John especially now they’re all on the same number and everything. The big cat names were fun. California
⏹️ ▶️ John place names are less fun, maybe than big cat names,
⏹️ ▶️ John still fun. And this is one of the, you know, the one of the sort of like
⏹️ ▶️ John inconsequential things that’s going to be announced at W3C is what is the new name of macOS? It was more fun when
⏹️ ▶️ John macOS was in better shape and we could just enjoy this as a frizzy thing on top of an OS that we loved. And now we’re
⏹️ ▶️ John just kind of all grumpy about the blue glass or whatever, but still this is a fun part of the announcement.
⏹️ ▶️ John And again, I love the fact that it has no consequences. Now, this list, as you noted,
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s been a bunch of names that were in this trademark list of these shell companies getting trademarks for Apple. that they did
⏹️ ▶️ John use, like Sequoia was on there, I think, Sonoma, I forget which ones have been, but they did use some of these, but I think also
⏹️ ▶️ John they have had macOS releases that didn’t come from this list. So I’m not entirely sure
⏹️ ▶️ John that the new name will be on this list. It could be something that’s not on this list at all. In particular, the first name that you read is
⏹️ ▶️ John interesting, where I feel like if they ever use macOS California, that’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John end of the California names. That’s the last one. Like once you use that, I feel like they would announce
⏹️ ▶️ John macOS California and this will mark the end. I guess they would announce that. they would just find out next year, but surely that one
⏹️ ▶️ John has to be the last one if they ever use it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I don’t know, I could see them. I know they don’t typically look back that much, but I could see them saying, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is the 50th anniversary of the company or 50th birthday, whatever you want to call it, of the company. So we wanted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do something big. Let’s call it macOS California.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and I have, as much as I dislike liquid glass, macOS 26 should have been Skyline,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco The code name was
⏹️ ▶️ John Solarium or Solaria or whatever it was. The code name was like a sun sky based word.
⏹️ ▶️ John It should have been Skyline. I’m glad they didn’t use it because I don’t like Mac OS 26. And so I’m glad they didn’t use Skyline
⏹️ ▶️ John for it. But it was like a Glass OS, Sky, Glass. I know Skyline’s a place or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a chili chain.
⏹️ ▶️ John I like Skyline. That’s one of my favorite names. I don’t predict that it’s going to be used, but on this list,
⏹️ ▶️ John I like that one. And also the other one on this list that is funny to me is Farallon.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m pretty sure, like so many things from my youth like that I didn’t know. I’m pretty sure that there was a classic
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac OS networking company with that name, uh, that I read
⏹️ ▶️ John in like Mac magazines when I was a kid, only when my child’s brain saw that word
⏹️ ▶️ John and just scanned it, it pronounced it internally as let’s see, Falron,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is not how you pronounce it. It’s F a R a L L O N. But I had no idea there was a place
⏹️ ▶️ John with that name. I just knew it as a networking company that I internally mispronounced because I had never heard anyone speak
⏹️ ▶️ John that name. I think until you just said it, right? And so my whole childhood, I’m like, it’s one of those Falron
⏹️ ▶️ John networking things or whatever. Nope. It was clearly a place that was probably from that part of California
⏹️ ▶️ John and name themselves after it. And, uh, you know, I don’t know the names of places in California. I think we’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John all proven that we don’t know these names. Um, although I did know Mavericks, uh, but yeah, Farallon
⏹️ ▶️ John is, uh, probably my bottom choice because I can’t pronounce it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, for me, I could, like I said, I could see California being a thing. I don’t know where skyline California is.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know anything about California geography.
⏹️ ▶️ John was that movie with the aliens invaded that was called Skyline. I thought it was because like all the aliens are coming from the sky. No, it’s a place.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s also Skyline Drive in Virginia. And I think it’s actually Skyline is only in Virginia.
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, I’m sure these names are used elsewhere, but apparently there is, let me see. This is a Skyline, California.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Either way, I view Skyline as a Virginia thing. So I both love and hate that as an idea because you know that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all the obnoxious Californians would be like, oh, it’s really about California because California is the only place that matters.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I do like Pacific, I like Mammoth and Grizzly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think Redwood is pretty good, but wasn’t that used for like one of the Windows versions or something like that? What am
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thinking of that that was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a code name? Yeah, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not an official name. I mean, they just did Sequoia. I feel like Redwood is, hmm.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now that’s fair, that is true. I don’t know, I think there’s several.
⏹️ ▶️ John Apparently Skyline, I’m looking up on Wikipedia. Skyline is a hilly urban neighborhood in San Diego, California.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There you go. Today I learned, not as good as Skyline Drive. Also, I think Marco had mentioned this quietly under his
⏹️ ▶️ Casey breath, which may or may not make the edit, but a very good chili, as it turns out. Yes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Nevertheless. A
⏹️ ▶️ John very good chili? Isn’t that the one, that’s like chili on spaghetti?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco vice versa, but yeah. I’ve actually never been to a Skyline Chili, but I grew up in Columbus, Ohio. I think they’re based
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in Cincinnati, so, or at least they’re popular in that area. So, they were kind of all over the place, but I never actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’ve had it, some very dear family friends. the wife in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the family is from Ohio and occasionally we’ll make skyline chili and it is delicious. Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyways, uh, I, I don’t know. I think there’s a lot of decent options on here. I, I do agree with you, John,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the California names are fun. They are not as fun as the big cats, but there’s only been so many big
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cats you can choose from. Uh, and I do like that they have some sort
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of thing other than just a numeric version number, even though as we’ve proven, I think it was like a year
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago now, maybe two years ago that Marco and I have no freaking clue what came when or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything like that. But still, I do like them. Let me start with some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey negative. I mean, I think we’ve maybe already covered this, but is there anything else that Marco, let’s start with you that you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not looking forward to? What are you dreading about next week?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So in general, Apple WBCs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are a combination of exciting potential and homework.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the balance of that shifts year to year. You know, what I didn’t like last year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was that liquid glass redesigns brought a ton of homework. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wasn’t super fond of much else besides the transcript API, which, admittedly,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was a really big deal for me. But like the rest of iOS 26 mostly just brought
⏹️ ▶️ Marco work that developers had had to do because redesigns do that. This year, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more likely to be a better balance of that. Um, cause it’s just, it’s not a redesign here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so what I’m hoping for this year is hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some, some design calmness in the sense that like, they are not going to hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ Marco redesign things to such a degree that we would need to redesign our apps again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also maturation and expansion of a lot of the on-device model stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was very happy to get those APIs last year, but they aren’t really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that useful yet because of just inherent limits in the on-device models and everything. And also,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we were also busy dealing with liquid glass for the first half of the year that we couldn’t really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco build against the on-device models that much because we were just underwater doing liquid glass stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what I hope to see this year is again, like a better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco balance of new capabilities and new stuff we can do versus
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like keeping up and treading water that we have to do to keep up with the system.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also adopting and maintaining a liquid glass UI
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is especially cumbersome because things are so different from 18 and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff and whatever came before. It’s hard to maintain the code basis for both. It’s hard to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make your app adopt Liquid Glass, especially adopt it well and not just to a surface level,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but also maintain compatibility with iOS 18. What I want this year is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for things to move forward enough that we can drop compatibility for iOS 18 in our apps for the most part. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that requires a lot of just stability, reputation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco improvements for the OSs, tweaking them in such a way that a lot of the haters haters who are holding
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on to 18 and Sequoia can comfortably move to them and will happily install them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pushing that base forward I think is the biggest thing they can do for us so what I am dreading it to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco answer your question is if they don’t do that if if what they ship is just another
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know butterfly keyboard gasket on top of liquid glass like oh
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we fixed it and it’s not really fixed and it’s just like some token tweaks and it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not anything and actually meaningfully better. That would be, I think, the failure mode here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know how likely I am to get what I want design-wise, but I think I probably will get what I want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco technically. I do expect the foundation models frameworks to be a little bit better, a little bit tweaked,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit improved. And then the question is, this entire
⏹️ ▶️ Marco world of app intents that we’ve been promised since the 2024 Vaporware demo,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The idea of like your apps that can vend things using a new app intent system to, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, to the OS and have Siri tie them all together. That
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a giant question mark. Like, are we going to actually see that? Is it going to actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco work? Is it going to be good? And what will our apps be able to vend? And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how will that system work? Is it going to be like the system spotlight database, which it’s built upon,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which does not work very well. I hope
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not or I hope they have made spotlight work better somehow even though they never have achieved
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. See also Siri like there’s a lot of these things are kind of like built on on shaky
⏹️ ▶️ Marco foundations or likely built in shaky foundations that I am a little bit worried about but ultimately
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope that they give us a good amount of new capabilities to use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco without it being full of a bunch of grunt homework on shaky
⏹️ ▶️ Marco crap that doesn’t work. Because that’s what we had last summer and it sucked and it was really hard for us
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to develop good features and move our software forward. So this year what I’m hoping for is the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco opposite. Give us decent stuff that works well that we can use to make better apps.
⏹️ ▶️ John John. Yeah, I think the thing I’m dreading most is kind of like Marcos had a repeat of
⏹️ ▶️ John last year, like in my short five or six year career as a Mac app
⏹️ ▶️ John developer, uh, this year dealing with Mac OS 26 has been
⏹️ ▶️ John by far the, the worst stuff that I’ve had to deal with. I just spent so much time,
⏹️ ▶️ John uh, fighting with like small display issues with basic
⏹️ ▶️ John interface elements that I didn’t control. Um, like I, for example, I use, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John on Mac OS, there’s like store controls where you can just say like, oh, so you have a bunch of subscriptions in your app or a bunch of in-app
⏹️ ▶️ John purchases. We have a view for you that shows them the Apple way. And I was like, I’m definitely using that because
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll get past app review. I’m like, look, I don’t even control this view. It’s Apple’s view. I just say, put store view
⏹️ ▶️ John here. And it just reads all my metadata about my things and blah, blah, blah. And then I don’t have to worry about, oh, your button has the wrong
⏹️ ▶️ John texture. You didn’t put the price in the right place. I’d be like, look, I’m not even making this UI. It’s the Apple UI.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I thought that was so smart when I rolled out my app with in-app purchase and macOS 15. And then 26
⏹️ ▶️ John came and broke that window over and over and over again by making
⏹️ ▶️ John it clip things or show embarrassing scroll bars or make the buttons really tall or make it so you can read
⏹️ ▶️ John all the text. And, you know, this is another example of not my fault but definitely my problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John I just didn’t wanna ship an app that looked embarrassing. Even if it was like, well, it’s usable, but like, why is there a scroll bar
⏹️ ▶️ John with like two pixels worth of travel in this window that you can’t resize? I’m like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why this scroll bar is there. It shouldn’t be there. It’s a bug in Apple’s thing. And so I had to do just
⏹️ ▶️ John the most Herculean stuff. That’s why I had all those things of like 26.0. This is what I need to do
⏹️ ▶️ John to make it work. 26.1, oh, they changed it, but now I need to do something else to make it work. 26.2, now I need to do this.
⏹️ ▶️ John I even, as I mentioned on a past episode, have branches in there for OS version, but also on
⏹️ ▶️ John Intel versus ARM. Why should SwiftUI view from Apple be different on Intel versus ARM? I
⏹️ ▶️ John just experimentally, I have determined on Mac OS 26. whatever, on Intel, it looks like this.
⏹️ ▶️ John on a Mac OS 26 point ever on ARM looks like this. Luckily I have multiple machines to test with, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John just, that was such a waste of my time because was that adding features that helped the user at all?
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I could have ignored it, but then when people would go to the purchase screen on my app, they would see
⏹️ ▶️ John something that looks like someone doesn’t care about their apps. Like, why does this look janky? Why is this button, the text in this button
⏹️ ▶️ John truncated? Why is there a scroll bar that scrolls two pixels? I feel like that’s an impression I didn’t wanna make
⏹️ ▶️ John in my apps. So I spent so much time fighting with
⏹️ ▶️ John the new look of liquid glass in Mac OS 26 for basic controls that really have nothing to do with the
⏹️ ▶️ John functionality of map. I also fought with it elsewhere on map. My setting screen, which does have to do with the functionality of map, had similar problems
⏹️ ▶️ John and I basically did six months worth of bugs and bug reports on that. By the end, they pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John much got them all fixed. I think I have, you know, the case where you’re using whatever we’re
⏹️ ▶️ John on now, 26.5, I think it has maybe one or two little hacks in it,
⏹️ ▶️ John but kind of like Marco was saying, all that code to make it look right on 26.0.1.2.3.4,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s all still in the code and has to be because what if someone is using my app on 26.0? I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want my app to look bad. I can’t clean that code up until I drop support for 26, which is not gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John happen for a long time. So yeah, that’s what I’m dreading, a repeat of that. And I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John honestly, I don’t think that will happen. Again, it shouldn’t happen. 27 should basically be the same as 26, but with
⏹️ ▶️ John some minor tweaks that don’t affect anything and plus a bunch of bug fixes. So I’m not expecting it,
⏹️ ▶️ John but dreading in terms of like I have PTSD from from liquid glass on the Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to have to go through that again. And then you should go to your thing,
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey. What are you dreading, if anything?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, you know, I don’t feel like I’m dreading that much. I feel like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as I said earlier, I am dreading that if they really get, you know, they get
⏹️ ▶️ Casey obsessed with AI stuff like, you know, oh, it’s AI, this AI, that AI, this AI, that. Like, I do not want to see
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. I’m over it. I don’t want it. Soterios Johnson Are you dreading that in the presentation or in the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey products or both? Jim Collison Yes. I think either way, it could be the case. I’m also dreading that, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple has gotten better in the last few years, but still has a long way to go. I’m dreading
⏹️ ▶️ Casey looking at the documentation for all of the new stuff because you know it is likely to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be missing or trash. They have gotten better. They still got a long
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way to go. So I’m dreading looking at that. Um, what I’m looking forward to though
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, uh, first of all, we haven’t really had a chance to, um, to, uh, think about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what the presentations are going to be, but when I was listening to upgrade a few weeks back now,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that Jason or Mike said occurred to made me think that the likelihood
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that they do some completely corny and cheesy and cringe,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, changing of the guards. Pre video for this, you know, so like, you know, handing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey off from Tim to John, I think it’s going to happen. And I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually kind of excited for it, if I’m honest, because I think it could be really
⏹️ ▶️ John fun. I thought you were going to say it wasn’t likely to happen and you were glad it wasn’t going to happen, but no, you went the other way.
⏹️ ▶️ John You think it’s going to happen and you’re excited for it. I think it could be kind of cute.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really do. I might be the only
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t think they’re going to do it. I’m not looking forward to it, but I don’t, you know, it’s fine. I don’t care about that stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But no, I mean, in, I think in terms of things we’re excited for, which I think we’ve all kind of bounced off that as well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, let’s, let’s go from not so happy to happy. I would love to see some advancements in Swift UI.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s no like particular bug bears that come to the front of my mind as specific things
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really want them to change. A better search support would always be great because I’ve had to do custom search
⏹️ ▶️ Casey related stuff in call sheet for its entire life for various and sundry reasons to have some better
⏹️ ▶️ Casey first party support for doing things more flexibly would be great. I think a lot of SwiftUI, you could
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just say, I would like to do blank in a more flexible way or allow, you know, be allowed to do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever, but have more flexibility with it. I think that’s true of most of SwiftUI.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually, and again, I know a lot of the older, like the, the spiritually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey older folks online are very anti SwiftUI right now, and like Mastodon or whatever. I actually really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like SwiftUI. I think that if Call Sheet were to be written in UIKit,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it would look one half as good or I’d still be working on version one. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s perhaps an indictment of my own skill and maybe I’m okay with that. But I really,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really like SwiftUI. But it also really, really has problems. And so I am not calling for a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey whole cloth like, let’s go a different direction with SwiftUI. And I’ve seen some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey calls for that on Mastodon. I would really really like to see and I’m excited for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey seeing what improvements come to SwiftUI on basically any of the platforms, even if it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one that I don’t really use myself. Like if I, I would love to see John get some SwiftUI
⏹️ ▶️ Casey improvements for macOS because that will eventually help me when I’m using John’s apps or other apps that are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey macOS apps that are based on SwiftUI. So I’m excited to see what they do with SwiftUI this year. That’s likely to be more
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a state of the union thing than a keynote thing, but I’m still
⏹️ ▶️ Casey looking forward to it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, let me talk about what I’m excited for basic connects to what you were saying about SwiftUI. This
⏹️ ▶️ John is phrases like what are you excited for? I’m not actually excited for this because I don’t think it’s going to come But if it did come boy,
⏹️ ▶️ John would I be excited about it? And that’s exactly what you got out There’s functionality that’s still missing from SwiftUI on
⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac There’s been a couple of uh complaining posts about it recently but just really just Again, ptsd
⏹️ ▶️ John reading that person’s description of all the different drag and drop systems and how none of them are fully functional I lived it,
⏹️ ▶️ John fricking lived it with Switch Glass from like day one of SwiftUI when I should not have been using
⏹️ ▶️ John it on the Mac, having to roll this all on my own. And here we are years later, you still cannot
⏹️ ▶️ John implement basic drag and drop with all the features you would want on the Mac. And it boggles the mind.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’re on like the third or fourth try at doing drag and drop. Just today I was messing with.fileimporter,
⏹️ ▶️ John which I don’t know if there’s an equivalent of that in iOS, maybe not. But basically, open save dialogs. How do you
⏹️ ▶️ John do an open save dialog box in a Mac OS Swift UI app. They have features for it. I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t think they have modifiers and stuff for it, but they’re fairly limited. There’s a bunch of stuff that you can’t do in
⏹️ ▶️ John them that you can do with the AppKit ones. And also buggy, because if you have like, oh, I’m gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John do a file importer on this view, but there’s a file importer also on this other view, it’s like, oh, now they fight with each other for reasons you don’t understand.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I don’t understand. I don’t, like, you end up making like an invisible, clear one pixel background view
⏹️ ▶️ John to attach your file importer for, because that’s what makes it work. Like stuff like that should not
⏹️ ▶️ John happen this far into SwiftUI. So I would be super excited if they came out with SwiftUI
⏹️ ▶️ John advances that say, hey, missing functionality, it’s here now. Things that didn’t work and were buggy, they’re fixed. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not expecting that. But what I am excited for, which I know is coming, and I
⏹️ ▶️ John know this every year, is because it’s developed in the open, Swift. The advances in Swift that are happening
⏹️ ▶️ John in Swift Evolution, you can look, there’s no surprises. It’s been happening all year. It happens in the open. We
⏹️ ▶️ John know every single thing that’s gonna come or pretty much every single thing that’s gonna come in Swift. And I can tell you, having watched a year
⏹️ ▶️ John of advances, there’s a bunch of really good stuff. In particular, the whole
⏹️ ▶️ John like, could not type check this expression in a reasonable time.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sometimes that’s not what it means. But for the times when it really does mean that it couldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John type check that expression in reasonable time, that’s gonna get way faster in the new version of Swift. And that is
⏹️ ▶️ John just a quality of life improvement for everybody who’s using Swift. And all the other nice features that are added, Like
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m always excited about that. And it’s kind of anticlimactic because if you follow Swift evolution, you’d know all the features, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John also exciting because like I’ve been seeing people discuss these features over the course of the year and argue about them and seeing
⏹️ ▶️ John whether they get adopted or whether they have to go back to be modified and come back in. And then WWDC is like, they’re coming
⏹️ ▶️ John out. It’s like, here are the ones that graduated, you know, here are the ones that graduated to actually be features of
⏹️ ▶️ John Swift 6.4 or whatever version we’re on now. And I can tell you, the features are good. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m also excited for an Xcode built on top of this version of Swift that performs
⏹️ ▶️ John better because of these improvements. And I suppose also a new version of Xcode that has better LLM integration and stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John like that. But I am excited about that. And it’s easy to get excited about that because you know it’s coming. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s one of the few things that Apple does in the open where you don’t have to guess what’s going to arrive.
⏹️ ▶️ John The other thing I’m excited about, I think I said this when we talked about this at the beginning of the year, I am actually excited to see
⏹️ ▶️ John the features that didn’t ship in 2024 actually arrive in usable form. because I think they’re good ideas
⏹️ ▶️ John and I think they will be useful to me as a user of my phone if they work, like Marco
⏹️ ▶️ John said, the way we know they can. We know it’s possible. We see the technology working in
⏹️ ▶️ John these very limited scopes. I’m not asking for the world. I’m just like Marco said, I’m just asking for Siri to
⏹️ ▶️ John act like Apple has been advertising and it acts like for the past decade. That I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John actually really excited about. I know it’s boring and it’s not like, well, does that mean Apple is okay and they’re competitive? And
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m setting all that aside. I’m a person with a phone and I want to be able to do those things with
⏹️ ▶️ John my phone more reliably. And every other device in my life that has been hooked up to any kind of LLM powered
⏹️ ▶️ John engine has gotten better for me in that regard. And that understands what the heck I’m saying
⏹️ ▶️ John and responds in a reasonable way. I’m so excited for my phone to get there. I don’t think I’m going to run a beta
⏹️ ▶️ John of iOS because I’m not that excited about it, but I’m excited to just get over that hump.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it seems like this is going to be the year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, anything that you are particularly excited for?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve kind of woven it through my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rest of the episode. But yeah, just in general, what I want to see
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, you know, again, like what makes for good WBDC is they show
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off features that A, will ship, B, work well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or at least work, and C, that I can use to make
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a better app. It’s like, you know, because there’s the consumer part
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the WBDC announcements of like, here’s what all of our new Wesses are going to do. And that’s great. But it is like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco technically still developer conference. And I am technically still developer.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what I would like most of all is, yeah, Apple, you do good stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but we know your stuff is going to like, be a little bit half-assed, let’s be honest. Like, you know, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s what they do, as we were saying earlier, like, they put out some stuff that kind of works and walk away
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whistling and call it a day. But where their platforms really shine, despite them not acting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this way, is with third-party apps and what we do for them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the better tools they can give us, the better we can make our apps. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s what I’m always most hoping for every year is give us tools
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that we can make better apps. That’s the most empowering, that’s what has the most impact, and that’s what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultimately pushes their products forward.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. John, you put in here, what will we miss the most?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not sure where you were going with that, but I have a couple of theories. You’re not sure? Well, I have a couple of theories. Number
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one, I will miss seeing the two of you. Obviously, we, like I said earlier, we didn’t really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey get the nod this year, didn’t at all get the nod this year. We never really understand why we do or don’t get the nod,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but we didn’t, so we’re not gonna be seeing each other unfortunately, and that makes me sad. I will miss that the most.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m guessing, John, you will miss being able to use your piece of crap computer with the newest operating system the most.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, what I’m going to miss the most at WRC is the formerly planned
⏹️ ▶️ John announcement of the new Mac studios, the computer of supposedly going to buy
⏹️ ▶️ John because before the whole AI is using all the Ram and everything in the world thing, Mac studios
⏹️ ▶️ John with presumably M five family of chips were going to be announced at WRC and now they
⏹️ ▶️ John totally aren’t for reasons that are understandable and and technically are not really Apple’s fault,
⏹️ ▶️ John but really suck for me personally. So what will I miss the most? The Mac Studio.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sad me. And obviously, you know, I miss the Mac Pro a little bit, but it was kind of a mercy killing. But like,
⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t my prize. It was like, okay, well, the whole Mac Pro saga is over. Got my shirt with the
⏹️ ▶️ John dates and the little tombstone. It’s like, it’s sad, blah, blah, blah. But guess what? This is the year that I’m gonna buy a new computer and they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna roll it out at WWDC. And no, they’re not. I mean, they can surprise me. That would be super amazing They
⏹️ ▶️ John come up with like an M6 Mac Studio and they’re like, somehow we got RAM chips. I’ll be ecstatic,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I just don’t see that happening. So yeah, that’s what I’ll miss the most, my Mac Studio. And also you two, but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah. I won’t miss a six hour plane flight.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is true, I will not miss that. But I love that we rank, Marco and I rank, below the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mac Studio, the computer that you didn’t even really want in the first place. Really feeling great over here.
⏹️ ▶️ John I talk to you two every week, but you know, where’s my Mac Studio?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco He really wanted better podcast co-host, but he’s stuck with us. Right,
⏹️ ▶️ John exactly. Where’s the Mac Pro of Podcast So? So you’re going to be riddled with holes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my gosh. I don’t think we should take this any further. Marco, anything you’d like to add or are you good?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Well, then I think that’s pretty much it. Is there any stagecraft or anything you want to talk about
⏹️ ▶️ John Stagecraft? What do you mean? Like the things you were talking
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about? Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like what kind of weird skits are
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they going to have
⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff? I guess, yeah, that is one other topic. The question of the balance
⏹️ ▶️ John between Tim and Ternus.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think we’re gonna see a lot of both of them. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is gonna open and I think he’s gonna hand it off to Ternus all the time.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think, I agree. And you think Ternus is gonna be talking about things that are not hardware related?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Um, that’s a good question. Yeah, cause like normally Federighi would take a pretty big role in this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I, obviously I think Federighi will still be in this, prominently in this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But maybe like the kind of MC role that used to be just Tim.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think maybe he will share that with Ternus, you know?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we’ll say that. It’ll be interesting. I mean, it’s not like it’s a mystery. Like we know the transition is happening. We know the time, we know everything
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. And honestly, how they divide up responsibilities is not even that important because who cares?
⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll be fine either way. But it will be, I mean, it may
⏹️ ▶️ John be our first opportunity to see Ternus talking about something that’s not hardware. I’m not sure that will happen, but
⏹️ ▶️ John if it did, it would be our first look at like CEO Ternus, like you’re no longer confined to your
⏹️ ▶️ John world where you just talk about whatever the hardware product is. Now you could talk about whatever you want. You could talk about the new Apple TV
⏹️ ▶️ John show, Ternus. You could do anything. You’re the CEO or soon anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m really actually surprisingly excited to see how they spin this.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, the spin implies that it’s bad, but you know what I mean? Like how they handle this transition.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I suspect it’s going to be mostly business as usual and with perhaps a bit more Ternus
⏹️ ▶️ Casey than we had seen in the past, but not, I don’t, I don’t think it’s going to be like Tim says hi
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then turns the entire thing over to Ternus and then says goodbye. I mean it could be, it’s been
⏹️ ▶️ Casey similar to that in the past. I don’t think that’s what’s going to happen, but we’ll see.
⏹️ ▶️ John Do you think there’s going to be a Tim goodbye? Cause this is like his last basically Apple event before he’s not a CEO
⏹️ ▶️ John anymore. Do you think he’ll have any kind of like little nod to that or he’ll just like do it by the book and be out?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think there may be a nod to it, but I think it won’t be much more than that. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the least, it’ll be a kind of a wink and a nod sort of thing, not literally,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but you know what I mean. And at most, it’ll be something like, thank you for the time that I’ve spent
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with you and blah, blah, blah. Actually, I could very much see him couching it as, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the staff at Apple, to the employees at Apple, thank you so much for our 15 years or 10 years, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s been together. It’s meant the world to me, blah, blah, blah. I could absolutely see him doing that. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll say that. I’ll be watching for that. Um, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know. I, I, I would be surprised if he confirmed that this was his
⏹️ ▶️ Marco last event. That doesn’t, that’s not really his style. It’s not really Apple’s style. I, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be very surprised by that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we’ll see what happens. I mean, he could just say something nice and not mention anything about it being his last event. I’m just like, huh? Why did he say that
⏹️ ▶️ John nice thing about employees? And thank you. Um, the, the one way you, where we could see a ton of Ternus
⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote legitimately or normally is is if all that hardware we described, the HomePod with the screen, the Apple TV and the new HomePod
⏹️ ▶️ John mini, if that all comes out, yeah, have Ternus do all that because he would have done all that anyway. Like he’s the hardware guy,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, he would have been the top level MC for that handing off to individual ones. But if that
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff doesn’t arrive, I don’t know where you would work in Ternus from a hardware perspective.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I guess we’ll be looking at that, but yeah. And the other thing to look for, I guess,
⏹️ ▶️ John is there any change whatsoever in Ternus’ demeanor? I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there’ll never
⏹️ ▶️ John be a change in Tim Cook’s demeanor. He’s going to be the same forever. But will
⏹️ ▶️ John turn us like, will we see anything different? I don’t think we will, because he’s Tim Cook is still the CEO and he’s
⏹️ ▶️ John still kind of in the mode of like, I don’t quite have this job yet. Just keep keep going, keep it on. But I’m always
⏹️ ▶️ John watching for that. I want to see him spread his wings and come out from the shadow of Tim. And maybe that
⏹️ ▶️ John won’t happen this June, but I hope it’ll happen eventually.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. Thank you so much to our sponsors this week. Factor and delete me. And thanks to our
⏹️ ▶️ Marco members who support us directly. you can join us at atp.fm slash join. One of the many perks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of membership is ATP overtime, our weekly bonus topic. This week in overtime, we’re gonna be talking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the newly announced NVIDIA RTX Spark, which could be a challenge to Apple Silicon.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ll talk about that in overtime this week. You can join us at atp.fm slash join.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you everybody for listening, and we’ll talk to you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was accidental, oh it
⏹️ ▶️ John do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can find the
⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at atp.fm And if you’re into
⏹️ ▶️ John Mastodon, you can follow
⏹️ ▶️ Marco them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s K-C-L-I-S-M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean to Accidental, check podcast so long
Casey’s good pickle
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve nerd sniped myself with call sheet. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel like generally speaking, my work efforts are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fairly static. You know, I work roughly the same hours every day. I feel like I get roughly the same amount of output
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of me every day. But then I’ll get this burr up my bottom like, oh man, it would be really cool
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I could do blank. And when that happens, I cannot stop
⏹️ ▶️ Casey until it’s done. And I feel like Marco, you definitely have talked in past about some of these, I don’t know if manic is really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the word I’m looking for, but these like hyper intense moments where you’re just absolutely fixated on something. And maybe John, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey go through that too. I don’t know. But I feel like I have a kindred spirit of Marco, if nothing else on that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah. This is much of my life.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. But I think that the difference between Marco and I is the way you describe yourself anyway is that it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very fits and very, you know, very big fits and very big spurts. I always forget which one’s good, which one’s bad, but either way, you know, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very, it’s very up and downwards. Mine is mostly level. And then I’ll go through these moments that it’s like, oh my God, I cannot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey peel myself away from the computer. That’s one of these times. Uh, the most recent time that this happened was,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and this is, this is going to be something that we could let ourselves get sidetracked about. I’m really going to try
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not to, maybe we should talk about this topic another time. But I am mostly divorcing myself
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from Plex and I have started to lean into it. Whoa. At least for my own use, I’ve started
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to lean into Jellyfin, which is a purely open source equivalent. I do think it is worth discussing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this another time, but that’s not terribly pertinent to the conversation except to say that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had added support in CallSheet for getting information from Jellyfin
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as to what’s currently playing. And so when CallSheet, not long after CallSheet launched, I forget
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly when I shipped it, you could, it would sniff out if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there was a channels server running in the local network or really actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not even a server, excuse me, but a client running the local network or if a Plex client was running
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the local network and it would do its best to interrogate those clients and figure out what are they playing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and do the best it can to put that information by default on the very top of the very first
⏹️ ▶️ Casey screen you see when you open the app. And it was okay at first. It got a little better over time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey With channels, it uses Bonjour, which is the zero config stuff that’s baked into
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of Apple’s devices. It’s an Apple technology, if I’m not mistaken. And it works really well.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty consistent. And I really like the way that, that John over at channels
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has handled that. Plex, however, what they have is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of spiritually similar to Bonjour, but it was written about 950
⏹️ ▶️ Casey years ago and it shows. And so, uh, apparently I just recently found out that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the internal name for this, or allegedly the internal name for this is G’Day Mate or GDM, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I find find hilarious. But what you do, and I haven’t looked at this piece of code in a little while, so I might get the details slightly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong, but what you do is, you, or CallSheet will broadcast
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a multicast message that says, hey, are there any Plex clients
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out there? And if a Plex client hears that message, it will reply and say, yes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m a Plex client, here I am, and here’s my connection information. And then CallSheet
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will then go and connect to that Plex client directly and say, Hey, what are you playing right now?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey When I first launched this feature, I don’t want to say like two-ish years ago,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it worked okay. This is very old, very rickety tech. If you’re the kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of dork that has like a VLAN in your home network, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me tell you the kind of people, the kind of dorks who run Plex are the kind of dorks who would have a VLAN. And if you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know what that is, congratulations, you’re normal. But if you have like a VLAN or something like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how did that avoid, like we pronounce it vlog, why don’t we say Vlan? Chris Collins
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s too close to Vlad. I don’t know. Anyway, if you have like a Vlan
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something like that, it doesn’t work. Like in so many ways, it doesn’t work. And then as Plex has impupified
⏹️ ▶️ Casey over the last year or two, again, we’ll talk about this another time, as Plex has impupified and had dramatically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rewritten their client apps, a lot of these features got even more rickety than they already were,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is saying something because they were pretty fricking rickety. The problem I had though
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that for whatever reason, for right or wrong, I was staunchly devoutly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey against doing any sort of thing where you have to log in in order to get information
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from these playback clients. I didn’t want to have to do like an OAuth flow. I’ve done
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in the past and I hate it and I’m sure there’s packages for it now, but I just didn’t want to bother with it. I didn’t think it was fun for the user.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t think it was nice. It didn’t feel good. And so I didn’t want to do anything that even vaguely relied
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on login. So then a few months ago, I started to really try, trial
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jellyfin and really try to figure out, okay, can I let the, can I make this work
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my life? And I’ve decided that at least as I sit here today,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am pretty much all in on Jellyfin. I still run my Plex server, but, and the family
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is still on Plex. But for me personally, for me, myself and I, I’m pretty much exclusively
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on jelly fin now. Um, there, I will say that the jelly fin client apps are all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty much terrible at this point. All the infused people are yelling at me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and screaming at me. I have tried infuse. It was not for me. I don’t remember why it doesn’t matter, but,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, there isn’t, there’s a client that I enjoy called send player. I’ll link it in the show notes. It
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is written or based out of China. So take that for what you will, but it is very affordable
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s a one-time purchase. But anyway, so I’m all in on Jellyfin and I wanted my playback
⏹️ ▶️ Casey information from Jellyfin to be showing up in my app in call sheet. So I can just tap and see what I’m working
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on or what I’m watching. And it turns out that there is no sort
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of peer-to-peer way to do this with Jellyfin. So now what I needed to do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is I needed to do some sort of like login flow. And I asked Claude about this former
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I think future sponsor. I asked Claude about this and Claude said, well, hey, here’s what you can do. You can do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like a whole OAuth thing if you so desire, but you can do, and I forget
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what Jellyfin calls it, but you can basically do one of those things where you ask the server for a pin
⏹️ ▶️ Casey number and then the user goes to the server and enters that pin number
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to complete the handshake and say, yes, this thing is blessed. And so that’s what I did. And that’s already shipped in CallSheet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It shipped, I don’t know, like a month or two ago. And it’s pretty good. I like to think I made it as clean and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey easy as I possibly could. And so now when you start up call sheet,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is almost freaking instant that you can see what you’re playing in jellyfin. What’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey also great about this is that because you’re not doing some like multicast, you know, peer to peer sort of scenario,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, it will work depending on your setup. Of course it could even work remotely. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the peer to peer thing for both, um, channels and for Plex. That only worked if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re on the same network because it was all multicast stuff. Well, I have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my Jellyfin server exposed using Tailscale and specifically a Tailscale
⏹️ ▶️ Casey service. I’ll put a link in the show notes. But basically what that means is in the same way I was talking about Funnel at the top of the show
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that lets you expose something to the entire internet that’s on your tailnet,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Serve is kind of like doing the same thing but only within your tailnet. So, you have to be attached
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to my tail net in order to access my jellyfin server. But it has a full HTTPS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey certificate. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s got a, uh, easy to remember domain name, et cetera, et cetera.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, what’s great about all this is when you enter in, you know, jelly.you know, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your tail nets name is.dotts.net. Well, then you can see that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey information even when you’re watching something remotely, which is really cool because it’ll reach through tail scale and ask your Jellyfin server,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, what are you playing right now? This works super well. And it works so freaking fast.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s incredible. By the time call sheet is spun up entirely, typically what you’re watching Jellyfin is right
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there, front and center, right at the top of the screen. I love it. I genuinely do. But all the Plex
⏹️ ▶️ Casey people, of which I sort of, kind of, but I’m mostly not one anymore, all of them are saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, with love, your Plex implementation is a pile of crap. Because it is.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the way that Plex does things is so rickety and so old. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey today, or maybe it was yesterday actually, yesterday I got thinking, if Jellyfin
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has this sort of code thing that I can do, I could probably do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something like that with Plex, right? And now I’m in a little bit of a pickle,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because what I figured out, it’s a good pickle, but a pickle nevertheless. What I figured out, and I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mostly implemented the plain Jane easy approach, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no frills version is already implemented. It’s not on TestFlight or anything yet, but it’s close to TestFlight.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I can ask, have you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tried to log into Plex? And what it does is it goes and asks the Plex
⏹️ ▶️ Casey central servers, the central Plex servers, hey, this user would like to log in. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it gives you a very long code. It’s like a 20-character long code.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But the nice thing is the user never needs to see that. You just send the user to a particular URL that includes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that code in it. This is very much like what John has done with our discount codes for ATP Merch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so you go to a special URL, and the user just needs to enter their login credentials
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Plex, in the spirit of OAuth. I never see any of these credentials or anything like that. And they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t even need to enter a code. They just say, you know, is this a, is this okay? Yes, it is. And that’s that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The, the, the catch though, is that this only works
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with asterisks and daggers and double daggers. This only really works for playback on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your local server. It doesn’t really work with remote servers. And the reason
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is, is because I, Plex, while it has a central like author authorization
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and authentication mechanism, it doesn’t really have any sort of central, what is this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey user playing anywhere sort of server or situation. And one of the great
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things about Plex is that I can share my Plex server
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with other people without needing to punch more than a single hole in my firewall, without needing to do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the tail scale dance, without needing to do anything else. I can share my Plex server with other people so they can stream my media and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey vice versa. So if John, for example, has shared his Plex server with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, which last I saw he had, and I’m streaming something from John’s house to my house,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this call sheet integration wouldn’t work because I’m interrogating my local server
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see is Casey playing anything locally, and I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going and interrogating John’s server because in order to do that, I would have to interrogate all of the servers I have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey access to. And not to humble brag, but that’s kind of a long list for me. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the question that I kind of have, and I’m curious what you two think is, this seems
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to work a billion times better for pretty much every use case,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey except when you’re watching something from a remote server, which is not an entirely uncommon
⏹️ ▶️ Casey use case for Plex. Or you can use the old school,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the old school one, it’s still functionally there, but it almost never works in my experience. You can use the old school multicast
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing, and you can hypothetically get whatever you’re watching across any server on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the entire planet. So I’m thinking as I sit here now, I’m thinking I’m going to ship
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this new Plex integration and leave you the option to do either or. Although
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the old version is so bad, I’ve been considering pulling it because it’s really very rickety. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m curious if either of you have thoughts on how I should handle this. Because again, the summary is, I do this new thing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where the user does have to log in, but it’s very quick and very easy. In fact, it’s actually even easier than jellyfin,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I didn’t think was possible, but you can only see what you’re watching locally, like what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re watching from the local server, I should say. Or I can leave it as is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and just tell Plex people, sorry, Plex has a really rickety system. There’s nothing I can do. Or I hope
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it works for you, even though it never works for anyone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So I don’t know. Do you guys have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey any thoughts on this? Any opinions about this?
⏹️ ▶️ John You got to think in 2027 mindset, Casey. Here’s what you do. WWDC,
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple announces a new version of Shazam kit that works with TV shows. You just just record
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco audio and figure out what they’re watching based
⏹️ ▶️ John on the audio that’s in the air. And then you look that up using TMDB. Done and done. No
⏹️ ▶️ John interface, no figuring out what server you’re streaming from, no figuring out what are you watching it on? Is it on Apple TV?
⏹️ ▶️ John What network do I have to scan with this, log in with that and figure out? No, no, it’s just, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John in the air. And if you could take over the camera and have it look at the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey screen. Like you
⏹️ ▶️ John gotta do it the machine learning AI way. Just sound and video
⏹️ ▶️ John is happening in the room. What is it? What show is that? episode. What actor is that on the screen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean that that would be like that would be the coolest and most modern version
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John can even just privacy invasive.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but and you could even do some things do something like you know take like take a picture every three seconds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like 10 seconds with your glasses with your glasses just for like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in like one burst like identify this boom boom boom send those three pictures
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and then just
⏹️ ▶️ John and send the pictures you take to it to some kind of moderation center in another country.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, exactly. No, no, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was gonna say like, you know, send them to like, you know, the open AI, AVIs or whatever and say, what movie is this?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, like that could be done. But no, I think setting aside those kind of solutions for now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I don’t, that doesn’t really sound like you or necessarily a great idea.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco When you, you know, you have a choice between something that has a, a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more limited feature set but works a lot better and something that is more broad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would go for the former every time. Because when you’re,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if people are promised functionality that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is slow, rickety, incomplete in practice, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna make it a more frequent negative experience for them with your product. Whereas if you say,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this version works a lot better, it just doesn’t support this one use case. They know that up front,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the more common cases where you’re watching things locally work a lot better.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is usually the right approach. Like make a product that does, that covers less
⏹️ ▶️ Marco area, but covers it better.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think you’re right. And that’s what I’m leaning towards. And like I said, I’m leaving for now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway, as I sit here today, I plan to leave the old and rickety version there if you prefer it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and basically have a toggle between the two. But, um, I really think that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re, you’re exactly right because so many people have written me over the, over the last couple of years and said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in very, very nice ways, did this ever work dude?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It surely seems like it doesn’t. And again, the people who have said this have pretty much universally been extremely nice about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this. Um, and, and so I feel like giving a better experience
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to your point, Marco, even with the caveat that it’s only for local stuff. I feel like that will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey generally be better for almost everyone. And I think that that’s probably the right answer. But like
⏹️ ▶️ John the reason I have jokingly did give my, you know, Shazam kit that can understand TV shows answer is because
⏹️ ▶️ John I watch most of my TV shows in the thing that you’re not supporting at all. And I want the experience
⏹️ ▶️ John of being able to open up call sheet and not have to search for the show I’m watching. I just wanted to know.
⏹️ ▶️ John I would personally be willing to give call sheet access to the mic to
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Kid what I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John because that would save me having to do the search. I would personally be willing to point the camera at the screen, although that would probably
⏹️ ▶️ John be a lot less reliable than the audio. But like the problem, the reason I’m suggesting this
⏹️ ▶️ John again, only half-jokingly, is because it sidesteps all these other issues. Because like, even if you just want to support Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John TV, Apple is not going to roll out an API where like, hey, third parties, do you want to know what someone’s watching
⏹️ ▶️ John on the Apple TV on any app? Just use this API. Apple will never do that.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco TV makers do that. TV makers watch what
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re watching and report back to their servers. But Apple will never, nor should they. Apple shouldn’t do this. But the bottom line
⏹️ ▶️ John is I’m on my couch, I’m watching a thing. What is that person from?
⏹️ ▶️ John You could save me a bunch of steps if I could launch Call of Duty and just see the show up at the top. And that’s not gonna work because
⏹️ ▶️ John I watch my shows on like the Hulu app, the Apple TV app. Like I don’t watch them on Plex. I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t watch them on Jolly Finn, right? I would do the log and dance of whatever I had to do to make that work. but we
⏹️ ▶️ John watch on all sorts of things. Like we still have that Hallmark Plus streaming subscription. Like there’s just too many
⏹️ ▶️ John apps. And so that’s why I’m saying there’s not gonna be any app integration. Can we sidestep
⏹️ ▶️ John it? Can we get around it? Can we use the power of machine learning and advanced technology
⏹️ ▶️ John to narrow it down even to say, these are my top three guesses for what show you’re watching, tap on the one you’re watching.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I know integration will be better and I applaud you for pursuing this, but like you just
⏹️ ▶️ John really nicking away at like the corner of a giant iceberg because it’s great for the five people who watch all their
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff through Jellyfin or watch all their stuff through Plex, and maybe those nerds are kind of like a core audience, but your app
⏹️ ▶️ John has much broader appeal. And so I do think most people who use your app will never know or see anything about
⏹️ ▶️ John this feature. So in that end, I would say, maybe try to time box
⏹️ ▶️ John the time you spend on this, speaking of being nerds types, because as cool as it is, you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John never gonna get anything close to enough coverage that the majority of users of
⏹️ ▶️ John your app are ever gonna see this feature.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I know you’re right. And on the long-term list, which it’s been on the long-term list since
⏹️ ▶️ Casey before LLMs were really a thing or before I was aware and exposed to them anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you look at Home Assistant, and it wouldn’t be me if I didn’t bring that up at some point. If you look
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at Home Assistant, there is a mechanism by which it will show what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple TVs in your house are currently playing. Now, it doesn’t really show a whole lot about it. It’s like a title
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and very little else. Whereas the nice thing about using Jellyfin or Plex channels is that they’ll often give
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me an exact movie database ID number for the thing that the person is watching.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I’d like to, at some point, set an LLM
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the home assistant code base and say, hey, there is a mechanism
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by which—I think there might even be a Python library to do it with that home assistant leverages. I have a bookmark
⏹️ ▶️ Casey somewhere that I could dig up. But suffice to say, look through this code and write me a swift version of it so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can do this too. And what it ends up doing is the, the four digit like pairing code that you would do. Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget when you do this sometimes with airplay, sometimes with other things, you basically have to do that dance once or maybe twice.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then at least home assistant will show you the title and like a, a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey image for what the person is watching, not like literally a screencap, but like a poster image or something like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, and so I’d be curious to see if I could make heads or tails of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that with the help of an LLM on my side. Um, I did try to dig through this code two,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey three years ago, whatever it was. And it was nigh impossible for me to figure out, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in no small part, because I am, I am able to speak Python, but I am far,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey far from fluent in it. And I think that was a large part of the problem. Um, but over, over
⏹️ ▶️ Casey time, you know, maybe I will, especially if I start digging into the like more agenty stuff where I say, Hey,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey go figure this out. Let me know when you’re done. Maybe I should do that at some point and set, you know, Claude off and say, Hey,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey build me a Swift library that does this thing. Here’s an example of it that works over here. See what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can do. And maybe that’ll work and maybe not. But the downside of that though, is that even
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I can figure out what you’re watching on like Paramount plus, what have you, the best I could do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is when you tap on it, it pre fills out a search for Star Trek, strange
⏹️ ▶️ Casey new worlds or whatever it’s called, you know what I mean? It’s just, it’s types those words out for you rather than jumping you directly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to to the entry in call sheet for Star Trek, Strange New
⏹️ ▶️ John You do the I’m feeling lucky and show the first search result in line.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s true.
⏹️ ▶️ John Is this not a type of thing?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But you get my point. But I don’t know. We’ll see what happens. But I have very much enjoyed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to figure out how to do this. I’ve been working with Claude to do it. This is things these are things that I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think I am capable of doing without the help of an LLM. But again, it’s much quicker to ask questions and have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it give me direct answers than having having to go spelunking through Plex documentation or third-party
⏹️ ▶️ Casey copies of Plex documentation or what have you in order to figure it out. But pretty much all the code I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey written for this particular feature is I think 100 percent me. I don’t even think it’s 99 percent me. I think it’s 100 percent me.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just the figuring out what the magical incantation I need to do against the Plex API.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was largely a conversation, almost entirely a conversation with Claude. Again, that’s the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing that I think is really powerful. Let me have Claude help me with the thing that I’m not uniquely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey skilled at, and then I will do the things that I think I am uniquely skilled at. And that’s been fun