677: I Accept the Battery Cost
05 Feb 2026If you really don’t like AI, we have some bad news for you.
Episode Description:
- Pre-show: Icepocalypse update
- Follow-up:
- Casey’s unit conversions are helpful… ish
- Other authentication options for John’s Cloudflare apps
- Per-pixel lighting and human perception (via David Schaub)
- The state of MicroLED
- Claude Code & AI ethics
- Top Dogs in Apple Vision Pro
- Marco’s experiment
- Apple adds agentic coding to Xcode 26.3
- Post-show: Tesla kills off the Model S and Model X
- Members-only ATP Overtime: Apple’s rumored AI pin
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Chapters
- School’s back
- “Not” relitigating Fahrenheit
- Mini-app authentication
- The state of MicroLED
- Sponsor: Gusto
- Claude Code and AI ethics
- Sponsor: MasterClass
- Top Dog in Vision Pro
- Marco’s experiment
- Sponsor: Factor (code atp50off)
- Xcode agentic coding
- Ending theme
- Neutral: Tesla killing S/X
School’s back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey As I sit here tonight, the kids have a two-hour delay tomorrow, and they’re finally going back to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey school on Thursday. They have not been in school since,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what day was that? January 23rd? Wait,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this whole ice period, they haven’t been in school since then?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s right. That’s right. So we got the snow on the 24th, 25th weekend. Then we were, well, snow and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ice. I shouldn’t say the snow, it was really the ice that was It was a problem. We’re off all last week, 26 through 30, 30, 26 or 30. We’re off Monday.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re off Tuesday. Well, I shouldn’t say off. They did a asynchronous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey learning, which means they did a bunch of busy work Monday, Tuesday, and today, which is Wednesday,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thursday, the fifth. They’re finally going back after, after two hour delay. And, uh, I feel terrible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Aaron in particular, because I’ve been up here working in the office. The kids have been downstairs in the dining room doing their
⏹️ ▶️ Casey busy work and asking Aaron questions incessantly all day long for last three days.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Erin loves her children more than she loves anything in the world, including, I think, me, potentially.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think she’s very ready for them to go back to school tomorrow. Potentially?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think she… I don’t know. So there’s days that I do okay that she might like me a smidge more. But don’t ruin my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey moment here, John. But anyways, the point is, Icepocalypse is finally over and I am very thankful.
“Not” relitigating Fahrenheit
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s do some follow up. And I would like to say that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been vindicated and in congratulations to John, or maybe not congratulations, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in thanks to John for putting this into the show notes. Even though my conversions to metric are generally
⏹️ ▶️ Casey trashed, they at least get us in the ballpark. And many people wrote in to say, hey, that’s helpful.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I’m not sure if it’s vindication, but you have your supporters. Let’s say there are people out there who love, who love
⏹️ ▶️ John to hear you stumble through trying to convert on
⏹️ ▶️ John between units that you’re not familiar with.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s right. I feel like I’m okay with you continuing to put in metric units if you use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of the less common intervals of them. Like I’m currently drinking about 25 centiliters
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a non-alcoholic Guinness tonight. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John like the only metric unit that I think most Americans are familiar with, and some people pointed this out to us, is I think we know centimeters
⏹️ ▶️ John because as someone pointed out, lots of our rulers have interest on one side and centimeters on the other. So I have a kind of intuitive understanding
⏹️ ▶️ John of centimeters and then a meter we just be like, well, it’s like a yard. But yeah, kilometers and kilograms,
⏹️ ▶️ John forget it. Nope, I got nothing on that. And then some of the people, I love how some of the people supporting your unit conversions
⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t help but snark about Fahrenheit too. So they’re just going to get that jab at even
⏹️ ▶️ John when they’re trying to support you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. Well, the thing of it is, I don’t plan to relitigate this because we have a lot of stuff to talk about. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we get everything wrong. Inches are wrong. Ounces are wrong. Pounds are wrong. Yards are wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Everything is wrong. Everything is wrong except Fahrenheit. Fahrenheit for ambient
⏹️ ▶️ Casey air temperatures, we got right. it’s a percentage of hot i will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell you it is a fact that if you have half degrees on your god damn thermostats you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey failed that is a failure of the other of your whole system celsius
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for ambient air temperatures and temperatures is trash you can use it for cooking i’m good with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that i’ll use it for cooking i mean i don’t because i’m an idiot and i’m an american but i’m i’m full support for cooking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you want to take your internal body temperature in celsius whatever, that’s fine. Add it anywhere else other
⏹️ ▶️ Casey than, what is the temperature outside? I don’t care if water is cold, y’all. I care
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I’m cold. And so, and I think it’s hilarious that all these
⏹️ ▶️ Casey people that make fun of Americans because of, oh, we’re stupid units and whatnot, seem to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this inability to remember the numeral, or the number 32. Like, all these people who are so smart,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and look at us with our base 10 units, meh, meh, meh, and look at our fancy paper, that makes sense, unlike yours, which doesn’t. really
⏹️ ▶️ John lot of friends in the metric supporters right now. I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m just saying you, you guys have, you, you folks have everything right except
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Celsius. Celsius is trash. Yeah. So much for not going into it. Yeah. Well, my bad. I can’t help myself. I I’m so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey triggered by this. This is the hill I’m dying on. I don’t know. I know you two know this better than almost anyone.
⏹️ ▶️ John is your metric supporter. Everyone. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But that’s the thing. I’ll happily do my best to give you centimeters or meters or whatever the case may be.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’d be a kilogram. I’m terrible at kilograms. but I’ll do my best.
⏹️ ▶️ John We already do like, don’t we do like millimeters? But like when Apple gives the units in metric, we just read them in metric. We don’t convert them to,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, 16th of an inch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right? I mean, again, all our units are trash. Every single one of them with one and only
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one exception and only when used for ambient air temperatures. Celsius in cooking, I’m good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m happy to do it. That makes sense. Not when you’re walking outside, because I don’t give a if water is cold. Anyway!
Mini-app authentication
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Other authentication options for John’s Cloudflare apps. Tell us, John, what else could
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you have done? What
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, well, he’s got, in case he needs some time to calm down, I’ll talk to him
⏹️ ▶️ John about that. Cloudflare authentication. The last episode I was talking about how I factored out the sort
⏹️ ▶️ John of passkey-based account system for all my little personal apps. So I didn’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John to, you know, copy and paste that from one app to another. Since I added,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I think I have like
⏹️ ▶️ John three of them now, three or four little apps. And it’s nice to have that all factored out, but a couple of people wrote
⏹️ ▶️ John in for possible alternatives. One of them is another Cloudflare product called Cloudflare
⏹️ ▶️ John Access. I read their webpages a few times to try to figure out what it was. Here’s the beginning of their explanation.
⏹️ ▶️ John Cloudflare Access provides visibility and control over who has access to your custom host names. You can allow
⏹️ ▶️ John or block users based on identity, device posture, or other access rules. And it says the prerequisites,
⏹️ ▶️ John you have to have a Cloudflare Zero Trust plan in your SaaS provider account. And it goes on from there
⏹️ ▶️ John to name a lot of different proper nouns that you need to set up in your Cloudflare account. I’m like, yeah, okay, but, but what is this?
⏹️ ▶️ John What, you know, I, and I looked up zero trust and it’s the, you know, the Wikipedia page says it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a design and implementation, a strategy for it systems. The principles that users and devices are not trusted by
⏹️ ▶️ John default, even if they are connected to the privileged network, such as a corporate land or whatever. So I’m in bad old days of computing
⏹️ ▶️ John in my jobby jobs. Once you got on the corporate network, you were kind of in and you were implicitly trusted to do a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff. But later in my jobby job that became, that went out of fashion and what came in fashion is
⏹️ ▶️ John a zero trust architecture, which is even if you’re in the network, even if you’re on the wifi, even if you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John plugged into ethernet on the corporate network, still you don’t have implicit access to anything because that’s really bad
⏹️ ▶️ John for security. So it sounds to me like CloudFlare access is kind of like, you know, if you
⏹️ ▶️ John do any kind of remote work for a company, you probably have some kind of work VPN that you have to connect to that gets you on the network and
⏹️ ▶️ John getting you on the network doesn’t get you access to anything, but you have to be on the network before you can then authenticate using your
⏹️ ▶️ John ID provider or whatever. So I don’t think this is appropriate for my mini apps to have a
⏹️ ▶️ John zero trust type thing where I have to install an app to sort of, I’m not sure if it’s a VPN, but either
⏹️ ▶️ John way, like it doesn’t sound like the right system for me to be able to log into
⏹️ ▶️ John my little personal apps, but be aware that it is available on Cloudflare if you’re interested in it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey By the way, to quickly interrupt, the whole shtick behind Tailscale, former sponsor, potentially future sponsor,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they are very big into zero trust architecture. Now, with that said, by default, you know, they kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey allow everything everywhere just to make things easier, but their actual like recommendations
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the way it’s really built is zero trust. And it can be extremely powerful and extremely
⏹️ ▶️ John And the next suggestion was OpenID Connect or OIDC. This one I also used at work.
⏹️ ▶️ John OpenID Connect is a sort of a way, it’s an open standard for authentication where you have
⏹️ ▶️ John like an identity providing server. And if you try to log into a service, that will bounce you
⏹️ ▶️ John to or talk to through an API, the central identity provider,
⏹️ ▶️ John and that way you can basically essentially make one account and be able to sign into all the corporate things. Again,
⏹️ ▶️ John it makes a lot of sense for an enterprise. You know, the dream of single sign-on, as they used to call
⏹️ ▶️ John it back in the day, is this whole very large companies that are built up around providing this, and OpenID is
⏹️ ▶️ John a open standard. A couple of people suggested PocketID, which is a tiny
⏹️ ▶️ John little OpenID Connect identity provider that you can run yourself in a little host or a
⏹️ ▶️ John little Docker container. So you don’t have to get one of those big commercial services, you can run this
⏹️ ▶️ John one thing over here and that does your identity for all your other apps and you’re good to go.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s a little PTSD for my job and working with Okta. And I mean, I think Okta is actually pretty good.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey But like- Okta was pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John considered. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John it was one of the better vendors, but still like a lot of the stuff I did at work, I have bad associations
⏹️ ▶️ John with, and also it’s so heavyweight. And I don’t, and actually, what I have is kind of what I want. I don’t actually want
⏹️ ▶️ John single sign-on. I want individual accounts on individual services. Not that it matters. These are my tiny toy
⏹️ ▶️ John things that are gonna have just my accounts, or maybe I’ll put accounts on for family members or other people
⏹️ ▶️ John who wanna take a peek at it. But it’s just simpler for me to be like, these things are not connected in any way. There’s no
⏹️ ▶️ John central ID provider. I don’t have to do authentication over there and then authorization
⏹️ ▶️ John differently depending on, It’s just, it’s too heavy for me, but it is cool that there is this
⏹️ ▶️ John PocketID thing where if you do wanna run this, you don’t have to run one of these big, you know, giant commercial
⏹️ ▶️ John things or one of the free open source ones. You can run this little tiny thing and it’s just a little OpenID Connect provider
⏹️ ▶️ John just for you and your little services.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and building off of that, there’s also TSIDP, which I think is written by TailScale themselves.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this is like a very similar in spirit to Pocket from what I gather, but it’s a little baby OpenID Connect
⏹️ ▶️ Casey OIDC provider that you would run on your tail net if you so choose. I haven’t really looked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into this, but it does seem like the sort of thing that I would do because I’m a weirdo like that. But anyways, lots of options for you,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey certainly for the public internet, and also if you just wanted to do stuff on your tail net too.
⏹️ ▶️ John And these work with pass keys and everything too. Like there’s no, they’re agnostic to the actual method you use to authenticate,
⏹️ ▶️ John whether it’s a hardware key or a pass key or a password. They, you know, all these things support, I haven’t looked into PocketID,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you know, the standard supports all these things.
The state of MicroLED
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s talk about TVs for a while. Let’s see David Schaub writes with regard to per pixel
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lighting control per pixel lighting is sufficient But it isn’t necessary. My 14-inch MacBook Pro has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey almost five dimming zones per inch Which David calls DZPI question mark
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I find it quite good because my eyes cause blooming and my glasses cause blooming Tech only needs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to meet human perception there’s no reason to assume that per pixel lighting is needed if if laptops get to about 5,000 zones,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey desktops get to about 15,000 zones, and TVs get to about 20,000 zones. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure my eyes would be perfectly happy.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, there’s the point of diminishing returns, but unfortunately, due to the nature of the LCDs
⏹️ ▶️ John that are in front of those dimming zones, there are still sort of worst case scenarios that come
⏹️ ▶️ John up surprisingly often, maybe not to 20,000 zones, but like these, to be clear, these numbers are
⏹️ ▶️ John pushing the high end of what is available commercially. I’m not sure if there are many TVs that are 20,000
⏹️ ▶️ John zones or higher. Obviously the MacBooks are half of that 5,000, but they’re not the highest density screens.
⏹️ ▶️ John But star fields, if you watch science fiction, it’s a black background with a bunch of
⏹️ ▶️ John pinpricks of white light, and it doesn’t take that dense of a star field to essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John require the TV to have every single backlight region turned on because there’s at least one star in every region.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then you’ve just gone back to the worst case Apple Studio display, the entire backlight is on
⏹️ ▶️ John and your black levels are raised because LCDs can’t block all the light, right? You know,
⏹️ ▶️ John there are lots of other sources of blooming, but that’s an argument against, you know, dynamic
⏹️ ▶️ John backlight regions, because yeah, there are lots of other sources of blooming, and we’re talking about that in the next segment as well.
⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t wanna add to it. It’s like, okay, and also the backlight is blooming. And to be clear, backlight blooming
⏹️ ▶️ John is so much better now than it used to be. It used to be incredibly awful, and the zones were big, and now the zones are tiny,
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s much better. So it is definitely getting way, way, way better, but per pixel lighting
⏹️ ▶️ John control, like why fight this? Each individual pixel can light up. We have a technology that does it.
⏹️ ▶️ John There are trade-offs, but you know, the gap is narrowing with Tandem OLED and QD OLED and everything.
⏹️ ▶️ John So, again, where David Chopp’s coming from, and in practice, most people are buying the LCD TVs
⏹️ ▶️ John as well just because they’re cheaper, but if and when they sort of meet on price,
⏹️ ▶️ John the answer is clear, per pixel lighting control, don’t worry about dynamic backlights. I mean, even if it’s just like, because
⏹️ ▶️ John correctly using dynamic backlights deciding which backlight should be on and how bright they should be. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John computationally expensive and complicated and there can be situations where the backlight lags the action
⏹️ ▶️ John on the screen, and there can be situations where doing the backlight calculations adds a
⏹️ ▶️ John couple of frames of lag when playing video games. It’s just a complication that is not ideally
⏹️ ▶️ John necessary, but yes, they are getting a lot better.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so speaking of TVs and backlights and things, Marco had made kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an offhanded question, comment, whatever. It’s less of a question, more of a comment. About
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Micro LED TVs last episode when we were talking about Sony and TCL. And John, you had thoughts.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I tried to give Marco a lay of the land, which is basically it’s always five years in the future and they’re not
⏹️ ▶️ John affordable yet. And just entirely coincidentally, I didn’t look this up, but my YouTube recommendation
⏹️ ▶️ John engine threw this at me shortly after we recorded the program. And it was a video
⏹️ ▶️ John from Robert Tate of the Hookup YouTube channel, which I had never heard of before. but he bought
⏹️ ▶️ John and tested a 157 inch A-Wall, all caps, micro LED
⏹️ ▶️ John TV, and TV in scare quotes, and he made a video about it. We’ll put a link in the show notes.
⏹️ ▶️ John This doesn’t really change anything that I told Marco, but it is a much more detailed view of like, what’s the state
⏹️ ▶️ John of things now? So first of all, this is a $55,000 TV. So, okay, well, you know, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And it’s 157
⏹️ ▶️ John inches and it takes up the entire wall. Like all large micro LED TVs,
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s made up of individual panels because the whole thing is like, you
⏹️ ▶️ John have to put these red, green, and blue LEDs on these little boards. I think they have machines doing it still, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re so tiny and there’s so many of them. And it’s kind of like Silicon chips where the bigger you make it, if you screw
⏹️ ▶️ John it up, you got to throw the whole thing out. So they always make these things out of modular panels. Even the ones that are like in stadiums and for rock tours,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re all modular panels. That’s the deal. Because we can make a small modular panel, they’re all interchangeable. If one of them breaks,
⏹️ ▶️ John you just replace the panel. And it’s easier to make a small thing perfect been to make a giant thing perfect.
⏹️ ▶️ John These modules are 27 inches. They’re 640 by 360 pixels at a 0.9 millimeter pixel pitch, which is how far the pixels are
⏹️ ▶️ John apart. And the general rule is if you multiply the pixel pitch
⏹️ ▶️ John by 10, you get the distance where you can’t see the pixels anymore. So 0.9 millimeters means about nine
⏹️ ▶️ John feet away, and you won’t be able to see the pixels anymore. It also, the
⏹️ ▶️ John little modules, the 27 inch modules, have magnetically attachable and adjustable screen things.
⏹️ ▶️ John So there’s like the back part of it that has like the power supply and the signal and everything and then the actual micro LEDs
⏹️ ▶️ John attach in a little panel with magnets and they’re adjustable because You’re gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John set up these panels and Robert set up was six panels wide by five panels tall And you
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you put the panel you put the things in the wall We’ll talk about the installation in a second, but you have to line up all the panels So they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the gaps between them are as small as possible and they’re all facing the same direction So one of them can’t be like
⏹️ ▶️ John tilted, you know, they have to all be smooth and everything And so they attach with magnets and there’s these tiny little adjustment
⏹️ ▶️ John screws to make to like level them and three dimensions So they all line up. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John very fidgety Anyway, that’s that six panels by five panels. That’s 3840 by 1800
⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s not even full 4k and if you look at his setup, that’s because there’s not any more room in his room
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, he couldn’t like it fills the height, you know There’s he couldn’t put another row of panels and it’s just they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John too big and the whole thing with these is like making them smaller is the hard part. You can put one in a stadium real easy, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John for a few hundred grand or whatever, but it’s making the little micro LED small. That’s why when you see those,
⏹️ ▶️ John the 55 inch micro LED was causing huge waves when it appeared at CES a couple of years ago. It’s like, how do they make one that’s 55 inch?
⏹️ ▶️ John Cause it’s so small. God knows how much, but that’s the, no one wants, you can’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John in your house, 157 inch TV. It’s just too big. So anyway, this doesn’t do full 4k, but it’s enough to see all the pixels
⏹️ ▶️ John in like a widescreen movie, because widescreen movies already have the letterbox things
⏹️ ▶️ John above and below. And this just has smaller letterbox things above and below. The installation
⏹️ ▶️ John was fun. So to get this installed, he needed three power drops to that wall and
⏹️ ▶️ John a dedicated 15 amp circuit. So it’s not even like you just plug it in once, because remember, they’re 27 inch panels and they all need to be powered.
⏹️ ▶️ John He needed 18 Cat6 ethernet wires to run to all the different panels.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh my God. And that was all run to a controller in a separate room.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then he just put three quarter inch plywood over the entire wall, mounted to the studs that he’s going to now mount all of
⏹️ ▶️ John the panels onto. You should watch the installation. It’s quite a thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Bananas. This video was relatively long. I forget exactly how long it was, like 20, 30 minutes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it was bananas watching this installation happen because he
⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t literally bring that wall down to the studs for the most part, but he kind of sorted it. Like there was a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ John because he had to get all the ethernet cables in there and all the power. Like the wall wasn’t set up in this way before and so
⏹️ ▶️ John it just really needed to be ripped up So the performance if you do that and you pay your fifty grand what you get so the brightness
⏹️ ▶️ John is only 800 nits But it’s 800 nits on any size window as in
⏹️ ▶️ John you can light up one pixel at 800 nits Or you can light up all the pixels at 800 nits because they’re individual panels
⏹️ ▶️ John And in fact when he did a full screen test, it was actually 840 nits for the whole screen so it’s the beauty of micro
⏹️ ▶️ John LED is is doesn’t have the sort of brightness problems of OLED where they can’t
⏹️ ▶️ John drive it that hard because of heat things will cause burn in and degrade the organic components and everything. So OLEDs are like
⏹️ ▶️ John super bright in a tiny region, but when you light up the whole screen with white, it’s way dimmer. No, that’s not a problem here.
⏹️ ▶️ John Much less blooming because there’s just simply less glass and stuff over the pixels.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think there’s still something over the pixels, but looking at it, it was hard to see it. And blooming is caused by, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, as our past thing that we just read from David Schaub is like your own glasses, the glass
⏹️ ▶️ John on the screen, the glass that’s on the front of your television in front of the pixels, that causes blooming.
⏹️ ▶️ John And of course, within your eyes, I’m sure we’ll get some vision doctor to tell us
⏹️ ▶️ John the details of that in a future episode. But this has much less blooming because there is
⏹️ ▶️ John much less glass over the individual LEDs. I’m not sure if there’s any, it just seems like if there is, it’s very thin.
⏹️ ▶️ John Color performance, 83% BT. 2020. So it’s not 100% BT. 2020 like that RGB backlight thing we saw. 99% P3, which is still
⏹️ ▶️ John pretty good. Almost perfect accuracy out of
⏹️ ▶️ John the chart, which is nice. No, it didn’t need to calibrate it or anything. Input lag is not great. It’s like 34 milliseconds
⏹️ ▶️ John with no scaling and no processing and some weird bugs, but realistically like about 78 milliseconds
⏹️ ▶️ John with all the features you’d actually want to use to play video games which is not a good number for a TV, but
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, fine for casual play. This is not a TV. This is a display
⏹️ ▶️ John as I said before it’s the TV in quotes you buy this for 55 grand and what you get is an amazing Screen,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you can’t watch TV on it until you add something it comes with this Nova star mx40 pro display controller
⏹️ ▶️ John But that doesn’t make it a TV That’s just the big box in the rack that the 18 ethernet cables run to
⏹️ ▶️ John That makes the display work and you know you’ve calibrated and tell it where all the panels are and so it makes a full image
⏹️ ▶️ John But if you want it to be like a TV you have to buy something else So he does he added an HD for fury
⏹️ ▶️ John room HDMI signal processor for 1000 extra dollars Because why not
⏹️ ▶️ John and this thing lets it have HDMI CC arc and eARC Dolby vision
⏹️ ▶️ John HDR 10 Dolby Atmos DTS X a power button a Remote and also a cool feature
⏹️ ▶️ John where you can do multi-view where you can put multiple screens You know divide up multiple signals and put it on the giant screen
⏹️ ▶️ John And then finally you plug this thing in with all its power drops and everything and you run it What is the power
⏹️ ▶️ John usage like? Well, it’s 71 watts for the NovaStar controller thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John With the screen at 100% brightness, the display takes 1,200 watts. It’s like a space eater, really.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’s funny you say
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. It’s funny you say that. Let me interrupt real quick. So when we were pre-ice slash snowpocalypse,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was trying to compute, you know, what can I run off of the tailgate battery if we just need it in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a pinch? What can I run off our our gas generator, which we might talk about later, potentially, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have like a little wattmeter thing where you plug that into the wall, you plug something into the wattmeter, it shows you how much power that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing uses. And we have a little baby space heater, it’s a little tiny space heater, and that was something to the order
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of 1300 watts. So we really- Yeah, what
⏹️ ▶️ John is the maximum, is it 1800 or something, like the maximum reasonable, like 80% capacity? It’s like- Something like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but generally, like most space heaters are around 1300 to 1500, and it’s like, yeah, you put
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one on a circuit, you don’t put much else on that circuit, and that’s it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so at 100% brightness, it’s 1200 watts. At 30% brightness, it’s still 950 watts. So it’s not even the brightness that’s killing it.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s essentially driving all those little computers behind all the little 27-inch panels. And this is the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco best one. When the
⏹️ ▶️ John screen is off, 600 watts. It’s 600, it’s like a gaming PC
⏹️ ▶️ John at full tilt when it’s off.
⏹️ ▶️ John What is it doing? Well, the displays
⏹️ ▶️ John are off, but the tiny computers that are behind every single one of those little 27 inch panels are still
⏹️ ▶️ John running. They don’t sleep them? I guess, this is what he measured.
⏹️ ▶️ John 600 Watts when the screen is off. I
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they go to sleep eventually, but anyway, like he said, if you have 55 grand for a TV,
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe you don’t care about the 20 cents per hour it costs to leave it in its off state. You should watch
⏹️ ▶️ John the video though. The
⏹️ ▶️ John amazing. It is sad that he can’t get full 4K on a TV screen that
⏹️ ▶️ John covers his entire wall. and it’s 157 inch diagonal. The
⏹️ ▶️ John colors are amazing, the brightness is amazing. It’s really cool, but it’s 55 grand.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like, I don’t think, this is not like the highest end or whatever. Like I think this company’s claim to fame is like
⏹️ ▶️ John they make affordable ones. They found a good way to make these small components. But this is a really complicated, fancy
⏹️ ▶️ John DIY thing. And I feel like these types of screens are really aimed towards, so you’re a multi-bazillionaire
⏹️ ▶️ John and you have a giant mansion and you have a theater room and you want to put something the size of a movie screen in it. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John these look better than a projector. He spent a long time, I guess he does projectors on his channel. He spent a long time saying,
⏹️ ▶️ John look, here’s how this compares to a projector. Projectors suck compared to this. Projectors,
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no planet on which a projector can have the contrast and bright room
⏹️ ▶️ John viewability because projectors, you need to be in the dark. Like as he pointed out, a projector will never be darker
⏹️ ▶️ John than the screen you’re projecting on. Like how can it be? You’re adding light to light that’s already bouncing off the screen.
⏹️ ▶️ John So if all the lights are on in the room and you have a screen in front of you, Whatever brightness that screen is,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re only going to add to the brightness by projecting light onto it. You’ll never get the good, which is why you have to make it dark
⏹️ ▶️ John for projectors. And this doesn’t have that problem at all. It’s got perfect blacks, doesn’t suffer from burn-in, has 800
⏹️ ▶️ John nits of brightness, which doesn’t sound like a lot, but when it’s 800 nits full field, that’s still pretty decent. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John this definitely looks cool. I would love to have one of these if I had a giant mansion and a giant wall where I could fit
⏹️ ▶️ John it on there, but there’s no way I would pay 55 grand for something that’s not full 4K.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So for what it’s worth, I have three 5k panels that I’m looking at right
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. I have a six space Synology. I have some ubiquity network media all hanging off of my,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, whatever it is, tech power, the, the, um, UPS that Marco likes and,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John uh, cyber power.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cyber power. Yeah. I couldn’t remember the name, but thank you. And from what I can tell on the little screen on the front of it, I’m using about 300
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Watts and that’s with all three of them lit up the Synology chugging away and that’s half of what this thing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John turned off. Sitting on there. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. It’s incredible.
⏹️ ▶️ John And don’t forget the other room you need to have with the server rack, where you run the controller and the
⏹️ ▶️ John thing that turns it into a TV, And you run all the cables to it and everything.
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Claude Code and AI ethics
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s talk about Claude Code and AI ethics. And I don’t know, John, how you want to introduce this, how you want to talk about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. But what are we talking about here?
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, so I think the past couple episodes I’ve been talking about my experiments with Claude Code. And if you’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John listened to the show for a while, you would have heard in the past, I guess, a year or so or two, maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, when we first started talking about LLMs and chat GPT and stuff, a lot of our early episodes
⏹️ ▶️ John about that were like on the topic of, um, how did they get this
⏹️ ▶️ John training data? What is the, uh, uh, legal and ethical and moral,
⏹️ ▶️ John uh, ramifications of training on the world’s data and then charging people to use it?
⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, I think we talked about like the Miyazaki, like a image generation thing and chat GPT.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like that, that product cannot exist and has no value without first stealing all the
⏹️ ▶️ John works of Hale Miyazaki. Uh, but then it’s like, okay, but is it stealing? Is it fair
⏹️ ▶️ John use? What are the courts going to say about it? We spent a long time talking about that. I think if you’ve tuned
⏹️ ▶️ John in recently, you might be like, oh, they keep talking about AI, but they never talk about any of these other issues, including like,
⏹️ ▶️ John what does it mean for people’s jobs and worker exploitation? And what about the bubble and possible economic
⏹️ ▶️ John crashes? And what about the environment and all the power of these things? We’ve talked about all these issues before,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it was a little while ago. And that’s kind of what we mostly focused on before we actually started using the products and before
⏹️ ▶️ John the products sort of came to be broadly useful instead of like a technical curiosity.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then recently I was talking about cloud code. So a lot of people wrote in to say, Hey, what about all these? What about all these other factors?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, yeah, it’s great that you enjoy cloud code. But what about all the data they’re selling to trend on? What about the environment?
⏹️ ▶️ John What about eliminating jobs? What about the bubble bursting? You know, what about these tools being
⏹️ ▶️ John used for propaganda and oppression? And you know, like, you guys should talk about that. And part of my answer is
⏹️ ▶️ John we have talked about that a lot in the past. But the second part is this item here, which is we should continue to talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. And what I wanted to say on this topic is that none of those things are resolved.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like yeah, we did not come to any conclusions and it’s not like the world
⏹️ ▶️ John figured it out. And now we have a set of laws and rules and everything is fine. And we’re sure it’s nope. None of
⏹️ ▶️ John that is resolved. Like there are various court cases that are happening, but it
⏹️ ▶️ John remains a completely open question. How bad is it going to be for jobs? Are they going
⏹️ ▶️ John to work out legalities is are the legality is going to bankrupt things. Remember we talked about like people get like three thousand dollars per
⏹️ ▶️ John book that was stolen, but it was only because those books were stolen. But the judge otherwise said the training on books that you didn’t steal is fair use.
⏹️ ▶️ John These laws there’s there are many cases still winding their way through the courts about various big companies like The
⏹️ ▶️ John New York Times and Disney or whatever suing the AI companies. We don’t know how this is going to turn out, and that’s just in the US.
⏹️ ▶️ John So, you know, we are talking about, you know, using these products and trying them out or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s not as if all those other issues went away, nor have they been resolved. And by resolved, I
⏹️ ▶️ John mean, my personally mean we’re resolved. I mean, like figured out in a way that is
⏹️ ▶️ John sustainable, that if we say, okay, we have a set of rules and guidelines around this. And we think
⏹️ ▶️ John if we continue along this path, people will be fairly compensated for their work. It won’t disincentivize
⏹️ ▶️ John creation. It won’t cause the end of humanity or whatever other, you know, like, but no, we haven’t figured out
⏹️ ▶️ John the right set of those things. We don’t know. So it could be that letting all these companies take all
⏹️ ▶️ John the world’s work and then sell it and become, you know, they could become huge powerful companies that dwarf any company
⏹️ ▶️ John before known by man and we let them steal all of our other content and it turns out that was a terrible idea. We don’t know yet. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have any answers here and this is not, you know, we’re not gonna like dwell into any of these topics but you’ll be hearing more
⏹️ ▶️ John stories about how this court case turned out and are these people unpaid and what is happening with open AI and you know, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John and has the bubble burst and are they really using all those GPUs and should they be stealing everything and how
⏹️ ▶️ John bad is it for the environment? And what is XAI doing in Memphis, putting giant gas generators outside their big data
⏹️ ▶️ John centers? Like that is all still happening. And you may, I know there
⏹️ ▶️ John are probably people who are on the extreme side of this to say, okay, that means you should never use AI at all and you should not use these
⏹️ ▶️ John products and you shouldn’t talk about them and you should be an abolitionist and you should throw yourself into the gears of the
⏹️ ▶️ John machine or whatever. Everyone’s got to find out where they think is the right place to be along that spectrum.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I think we’re all kind of figuring out, especially since we don’t actually know how bad
⏹️ ▶️ John it may be, right? We don’t know what will the consequences be of putting all
⏹️ ▶️ John this, them stealing all this information and selling it in a product. Everyone is kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John used to the set of rules that we’re used to that you were born with, like how does copyright work? And how does it work for music and books and movies?
⏹️ ▶️ John And like, you just accept those as like, that’s just the way things are, but anything new is scary and weird.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if you look into any of the other things, like for television and music and writing and
⏹️ ▶️ John you name it. The systems we have now are very imperfect and are not particularly any more
⏹️ ▶️ John just or well adjusted than, uh, than, you know, the perfect thing you have in your mind is just what you’re used
⏹️ ▶️ John to. So that’s my personal answer on this is that I don’t know how this is going to turn out, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I am not an abolitionist and I’m not totally against looking into it because I recognize that it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John actually particularly different than all than all the other forms of
⏹️ ▶️ John technology that have come before it. And I hope we figure it out. And I’m fighting for
⏹️ ▶️ John this to be something sustainable. But I don’t think saying that we
⏹️ ▶️ John should never, ever use this stuff is the right solution for right position for me personally.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would go a little further and just say, like, like we don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a choice. This is here. This is happening. It’s happening
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with or without us. and it’s happening to all of us. You can decide
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to sit it out, but what that’s going to mean is sitting out the technology business
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the foreseeable future. And that’s a decision you can make. Like that’s entirely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to you as a technology user, as a consumer, like you can do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if you sit out AI, if you condemn the whole thing, and as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco John said, like there’s lots of tricky like moral arguments and legal arguments. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I could see why somebody would condemn the whole thing. But this is the tech business
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the foreseeable future. You can be a part of it or you can fall behind.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like if you are in the tech business and you want to continue to be in the tech business,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you kind of have to get on board in some capacity or at least you have to be OK with it and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recognize like this is a massive force that that is transforming not only our industry,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but many industries soon or currently. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s here, it’s big, it’s going to keep being big. And no matter what happens in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco short term, like if the bubble pops, people are saying that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look, there’s a bunch of really massive amounts of money and ordering and speculation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and finance tricks going around. But at the end of the day, if what we have right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now is all it ever is, this is already incredibly useful and incredibly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco valuable to solve lots of people’s problems, even if it never gets any better than what it is right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now today. And that’s not the case. Of course it’s gonna get better. So this revolution
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is here. You can choose not to be part of it, but what that will mean is sitting out
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the technology business for the foreseeable future.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and you can choose to not be a technology business you’re against it, just like choosing not to be in like the cattle
⏹️ ▶️ John business because you don’t want to eat meat, right? That makes perfect sense. And also, I think
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s an equally valid position to stay in the tech business and lobby against it or lobby for, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John better fit more fair rules. Just as people in the technology industry currently lobby
⏹️ ▶️ John for more fair rules for like paying artists for their music streams on Spotify or whatever, like it’s possible to be to
⏹️ ▶️ John stay in it and fight for a more just roll out of this technology.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like I I was my parents were asking me about AI recently. I think it’s finally penetrated the boomers
⏹️ ▶️ John and they wanted me to explain the whole situation to them. And the analogy I use for them is one I’ve also used in a couple of emails that I’ve responded
⏹️ ▶️ John from ATP is like, it’s a lot like the Industrial Revolution. Whether it’s like, is it
⏹️ ▶️ John a net good or a net bad? The Industrial Revolution caused incredible short term harms
⏹️ ▶️ John and long term, short term filled the cities with smog, exploited workers. People got cancer from all the
⏹️ ▶️ John chemicals it was putting into the environment. It was just terrible. Like people who’s out in the fields working or now
⏹️ ▶️ John like children are in factories with their faces covered with soot, you know, all London’s in a giant
⏹️ ▶️ John black cloud people losing their jobs left and right because machines are replacing them right? And
⏹️ ▶️ John then long-term there was incredible long-term harms from the Industrial Revolution climate change
⏹️ ▶️ John that you mean even though people were kind of picking up that was probably going to be a thing very early on. It’s like, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be fine. Look everything the factories are getting cleaner. We have child labor laws. Now I’m sure it’s smooth
⏹️ ▶️ John sailing from here. And then, you know, like, ah, it seems like the planet’s getting warmer.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, no, it’s fine. It’ll be fine. It wasn’t fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John But on the flip side, electric lighting, indoor plumbing, like
⏹️ ▶️ John the ability to manufacture things, like the industrial revolution had
⏹️ ▶️ John tremendous downsides that are actually very similar to the downsides of the computer revolution, the internet
⏹️ ▶️ John revolution, and now the AI revolution. And that doesn’t mean that it’s like, you should just accept it because there’s good parts of
⏹️ ▶️ John it too. No, you have to fight against the bad parts. You have to get the pollution out of the cities. You have to come up with cleaner energy.
⏹️ ▶️ John You have to implement child labor laws. You have to get the lead out of the pipes. You have to not let people
⏹️ ▶️ John build with asbestos. Like, you have to do all of those things. And I feel like a lot of the people who
⏹️ ▶️ John are fighting against AI, quote unquote, against AI, are simply trying to make it so
⏹️ ▶️ John that the children aren’t in the factories and then we stop putting soot into the air and chemicals into the rivers, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And the tricky thing with AI is that because it’s so new and weird,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not as clean cut as like, hey, don’t put the runoff from your factory into our river.
⏹️ ▶️ John That was straightforward, and it still took decades to make any appreciable progress on, because rich people are mean.
⏹️ ▶️ John And we’re in the same situation here. Billionaires controlling this AI, right? But it’s not entirely clear. Is it possible
⏹️ ▶️ John to build a sustainable society where they steal all of the, well, they train on the
⏹️ ▶️ John world’s work and then profit from it, but don’t give anything back. Can we build a sustainable
⏹️ ▶️ John system out of that? Or do we have to have lawsuits where people get paid for the stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John and they have to work? We don’t know. We don’t know how it’s going to turn out. It’s not as straightforward as child labor and pollution, but it is very
⏹️ ▶️ John similar in that it’s unclear whether it will be a net
⏹️ ▶️ John good or a net bad at any given point. Because I would say the Industrial Revolution was a net evil for a long
⏹️ ▶️ John time before it was like, OK, well, I guess having, you know, like machines and factories and
⏹️ ▶️ John manufactured goods and you know, all that other stuff is actually pretty good. Um, but for a long time it was
⏹️ ▶️ John really bad. And then all of a sudden now with climate change, like, Oh, we thought we were over the hill, but we’re not,
⏹️ ▶️ John we did it. We made some terrible choices and now they’re chickens are coming home to roost generations later. Right? So who
⏹️ ▶️ John knows? AI could be like that as well. But all this is say is that it’s complicated. It’s not resolved.
⏹️ ▶️ John And just because we talk about it in a nice way and say, we had fun working with Claude code and we’re going to talk more about AI stuff now
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t mean we think everything’s fine, there’s no reason to look anywhere else, there are no other issues, that’s not true.
⏹️ ▶️ John All the issues remain and are difficult.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I was gonna say earlier, and then I think Marco, you beat me to it, that it would be irresponsible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for at least the three of us not to explore this because of both of our professions, both the clickety clacking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the yakety yaking in that,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is expected that we are going to be more efficient with the work that we do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on our apps. And I think that leveraging these tools is kind of table
⏹️ ▶️ Casey stakes, which is what Marco was saying. And additionally, for us to stick our heads on the ground and not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be aware of this and try it at least some, is, I think, irresponsible for the show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think that it is our, it is literally our jobs to at least kick
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the tires and see what this is all about. And like John said, and like Marco said, it doesn’t make any of this,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, a perfect situation. It doesn’t mean that it’s, that we’re excusing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of the ills. But, you know, the genie’s out of the bottle. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we just got to, at this point, I feel like we have no choice but to at least participate in it to some degree.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t see it as like we have no choice and there’s no fighting it. I think there is fighting it. And I think it’s equally our responsibility
⏹️ ▶️ John to continue to highlight the problems, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s our responsibility to know about the technology, just for our programming jobs and for our tech podcasting job,
⏹️ ▶️ John it is also our responsibility to continue to acknowledge fight against the worst of the excesses
⏹️ ▶️ John and try to, you know, do the equivalent of stopping the factories from putting their runoff into the river and, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John get the smog out of the skies and all the other stuff there because there’s so many equivalents to that in AI and
⏹️ ▶️ John there will be like, we don’t even know what the long term harms are going to be like. We don’t know what the climate change
⏹️ ▶️ John equivalent is, but we know the job loss, pollution, exploitation, propaganda, like the printing press.
⏹️ ▶️ John The printing press was a pretty good invention, but boy, did it empower propaganda. So many harms came from the printing
⏹️ ▶️ John press, but also good. that doesn’t mean say, well, the printing press is here. There’s no sense fighting it. Propaganda is going to be everywhere. No,
⏹️ ▶️ John fight it, fight it, fight it. But you’re never, you’re not going to get rid of, you’re getting rid of the printing press. It’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John the solution, but you know what I mean? Like anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco how do you feel about
⏹️ ▶️ John CDRs? Well, luckily we don’t have to worry about them because they’re gone, baby.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey S tier. That’s all I’m saying. Uh, no, it, it, it’s worth us noting. And I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, you had put a link, this is kind of tangentially related, but you would put a link to, um, uh, friend of the show,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey even though I don’t think he knows any of us, I don’t think any of us know him, but Alec from Technology Connections
⏹️ ▶️ Casey put together a 90 minute video that is ostensibly about renewable energy. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey definitely learned a lot from this. And that’s the first 60 minutes. And the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco last 30 minutes continue with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey renewable energy. And then things take a turn. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I beg of you, if you can give 90 minutes to this,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I genuinely think it is well worth your time. can only give 30 though, start when he’s kind of rolling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the credits, so to speak. And he, and he shows all the Patreon supporters and all that, and just pick it up right there. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you will, well, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed and you will either be shouting hell yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or hopefully you will reconsider some of your priors. But this video is incredible.
⏹️ ▶️ John The only reason I put it in here is because it’s a good, it’s one of the things that I think about
⏹️ ▶️ John when considering the environmental impact of AI. Like, as I’ve said on past shows, I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John perfectly happy to expend energy production of humanity on things that are useful for humanity. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m good with power plants heating my home, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And providing lights, because I think those are good things, right? Keeping lights on the roads at night for safety and
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff like that. Yeah. Crypto, stupid, but AI, valuable. Yeah. We generate power to do
⏹️ ▶️ John things that are useful for us. And it’s a question of, okay, well, AI is taking too much power and it’s not useful enough for whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John I view it mostly as the energy generation problem is a
⏹️ ▶️ John separate thing. No, we should not be burning coal. Yes, we should be using solar panels and renewables, and we’re doing
⏹️ ▶️ John a terrible job of that in our country, and we apologize. But this video is good at addressing like technologically
⏹️ ▶️ John speaking, things actually do look vaguely hopeful. If you don’t, not if you don’t look, if you look at the US, things
⏹️ ▶️ John look miserable. But if you look at the rest of the world, renewables are kicking butt. And this is if you haven’t been keeping up
⏹️ ▶️ John with this, this video from technology connections is a great overview of like, just how good have a renewables guy. It
⏹️ ▶️ John was another one. I forgot to get the URL for but like it was a recent story that uh, A wind farm in like Ireland or something
⏹️ ▶️ John was being shut down. They had like 21
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey turbines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah 21 turbines
⏹️ ▶️ John that had been put up in the 90s They were shutting the wind farm down and they were replacing those 21 turbines with new ones
⏹️ ▶️ John and every Single new turbine they put in produces more power than all 21
⏹️ ▶️ John of the old ones combined
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s progress
⏹️ ▶️ John since the 90s. That is progress. Anyway, watch this video. Um, the political rant at the end I don’t think it will convince
⏹️ ▶️ John anybody that doesn’t already agree with it, but if you do already agree with it, it can be cathartic.
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Top Dog in Vision Pro
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Uh, let’s do some topics
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we have to reenter vision pro corner and now I have a buddy. And so John,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey did you watch both episodes of top dog? I did. I watched the dogs. I’ve watched the
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the whole thing, right? It was just those two episodes.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I thought we were
⏹️ ▶️ John getting like, it’s just like a sample, but it was just two and done. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. I think it’s like a sum total of around 30 minutes, give or take a little bit if I recall correctly. Um, but yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s, uh, about the, what is it, Crufts or something like that? Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a CRU is like the thing in your code where you got like some old junky code,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you say, I got a lot of cruft in this
⏹️ ▶️ John code. It’s CRUFTS. It is the world’s biggest and oldest dog show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s right, it takes place in Birmingham, I believe. And this was a immersive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two episode show about that dog show. And let me, I know I’ve been through this a hundred times, please just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey indulge me. 2D is, you know, your television. 3D is a rectangle that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has depth and immersive means not only is there depth, but you can actually look around and change your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey perspective, which you can’t do in 3D. In 3D, you’re just, you’re, you’re… Every
⏹️ ▶️ John time you say that, my, like my bristle, because it’s the wrong, it’s fine. Just go on.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey for you to give me that away. I know what you mean.
⏹️ ▶️ John I know what you mean. I
⏹️ ▶️ John phrase it in a different way.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’ll work on that. I’ll take that as a homework assignment. But, but anyway, this, this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was entertaining. I I mean, I am not dog obsessed. I really enjoy my dog. I generally enjoy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dogs as a point of order, but nothing about this. Like I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t watch dog shows. Um, so that, that I don’t really care about, but this was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to my eyes, very clearly either directed or edited or both by
⏹️ ▶️ Casey someone who has only ever done 2d content and has no freaking clue how to do immersive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey content and Marco and Ben Thompson, front of the show, have banged the drum
⏹️ ▶️ Casey over and over again, that you cannot cut or if you do, you have to do it extremely sparingly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We also spoke about this with regard to basketball. Generally speaking, I think that Marco and Ben are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little too far in one direction and that I think a cut here and there is fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This to me was brutal. It was all the things that Marco and Ben are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey always talking about. It was a cut every few seconds. The camera moved a lot more than I think it should
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have because that’s kind of, I, and I’ve said this before, I don’t really ever get motion sick, but when the camera’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey moving, it kind of gives you the feeling. Um, I, I really feel like this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was basically a three. It was, it was created and cut such that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was more 3d than it was immersive. Literally speaking, it was immersive. As I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey turn my head, I can see different parts of the scene in front of me, but But in terms of the way
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was presented, it was basically 3D. There was very little that was like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fun and cool that you could get by just turning your head to one side or the other. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was really disappointing to me because I really love the immersive stuff and I keep banging
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the drum of like the Metallica concert was incredible. I thought the NBA stuff was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey incredible and that you can look around and you have the the time to look around
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and change your perspective and look at something that maybe the camera isn’t wanting you to focus on, but you find
⏹️ ▶️ Casey interesting for whatever reason. This was none of that. And I honestly, I was pretty disappointed by
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, the language I would use for this is small FOV versus large, small field of view versus large, but fields
⏹️ ▶️ John of view in two dimensions, not just left and right, but also up and down. And yeah, I did notice that on this thing as well, because
⏹️ ▶️ John in any vision pro, you know, quote unquote immersive content, you can turn your head far enough where you see the edges
⏹️ ▶️ John of the thing. just often the edges are just so like the field of view is so large that you’re looking at like half a sphere or a quarter
⏹️ ▶️ John of a sphere. And so it’s really, you can turn your head way to the left, way to the light, way up, way down. You know, you can see
⏹️ ▶️ John your feet, you can see the sky. Um, some, sometimes there are even three 60 where the field of view is a perfect sphere and
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no place, no edge, but usually there is an edge. And this thing, the edges, top
⏹️ ▶️ John and bottom were real close. Like you could look up and down a little bit, but you couldn’t see the people’s shoes
⏹️ ▶️ John and you couldn’t see the boom mic that was inevitably hanging
⏹️ ▶️ John they cut the field of view. And in that respect, that’s why you’re saying in the cases it felt more like watching a
⏹️ ▶️ John TV show type thing, because in a TV show type thing, you can’t look up and see the boom mic, and you can’t look down and see the people’s
⏹️ ▶️ John sneakers. You just see what they frame. And so this was much like that top and bottom. Left and right, there was more freedom.
⏹️ ▶️ John I felt like, was it 180 left and right? I don’t know if it was 180, but it was pretty big. Maybe, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. The field of view was pretty wide horizontally, but narrow vertically.
⏹️ ▶️ John The cutting didn’t bother me at all. I thought the immersive environment was a good place to see dogs, because dogs
⏹️ ▶️ John are cute when you can see them in 3D.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I would agree with
⏹️ ▶️ John that. I think whoever made this is not very good at making a stereotypical
⏹️ ▶️ John reality TV show thing, having watched a ton of reality TV. Like, this is just a gimme, man. It’s like a dog
⏹️ ▶️ John show. There are personalities. There are people want that, like, you gotta have, you gotta give people the villain edit
⏹️ ▶️ John and the hero and the underdog, and you know, you gotta edit it together, knowing how it ends to make it. And they
⏹️ ▶️ John just, it wasn’t, it was like, they’re not very good at their job in terms of making it sort of
⏹️ ▶️ John chewing gum for your mind, kind of like fluff reality show. Like, you don’t have to be mean to the participants.
⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t have to make fun of them or whatever. Just develop drama. And they tried, but it was so-so. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John The other thing I’ll say is like, the part I was most interested in, I was hurt so much by their poor
⏹️ ▶️ John filming of it, probably because they didn’t have enough cameras, which was the fly ball competition. Oh, I know. Where
⏹️ ▶️ John the dogs have to run and get a tennis ball and run back. I’d never seen that before. And I wanted to see it and they wanted to show you the
⏹️ ▶️ John big dramatic finish. And it’s like, you didn’t, you basically didn’t even get it on camera. I mean, you kind of did, but it was so far
⏹️ ▶️ John away. It’s such an awkward angle. It’s like, this is not how you film a sporting event.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They also had a bunch of times where they had straight up 2d content and I thought that they handled it well. It was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of like projected onto like a screen. I’m not doing it justice.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John But like when they,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they would have just straight up 2d content that they would show you, you couldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really move your head and change the perspective. It was just 2D content presented on a screen. You’re never changing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your perspective. You’re just looking at different parts
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John of the image.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, just bear with me here, all right?
⏹️ ▶️ John your perspective means you’d be able to see around the back of something that you couldn’t previously see, but you can never do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. You can’t change your particular focus or field of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John view or whatever. You’re just looking at different parts of the FOV,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes. Yes. Anyway, the point is there were moments, several moments, where they had just 2D footage, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess they didn’t set up the immersive cameras or what have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you. Like for
⏹️ ▶️ John past years or just in the show?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No, it was in the show.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s how flat it was that I don’t think I even noticed this, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that’s what I was going to say is they did it really, really well. Like it was presented in a way that it wasn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey off putting or anything like that. But ultimately to your point, and what made me think of this is that they didn’t capture
⏹️ ▶️ Casey immersive. They whiffed. Oh, it was, it’s still very cute.
⏹️ ▶️ John thing that I think is interesting. I mean, you’re a rant on the cutting. This is one, I’m not sure if this is just that I’m not used to it, but just be aware
⏹️ ▶️ John of this is a thing you ever watch immersive in regular television or movies. Um, they will
⏹️ ▶️ John do things like they, they will have the camera at varying distances to people. So let’s say someone is sitting in a chair for
⏹️ ▶️ John an interview and like a documentary, you’ll see them like from the waist up and they’ll be talking and sitting
⏹️ ▶️ John in the chair. And then like for some dramatic moments, they’ll have a closeup and you’ll be seeing them just like their head and shoulders filling the
⏹️ ▶️ John same size frame. That’s common, a wide shot, a closeup of people or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John In immersive, because it’s 3D and because you like feel like you’re there, like you could reach
⏹️ ▶️ John out and touch them, it messes with your sense of scale. Like they had this lady with like
⏹️ ▶️ John a dog on her lap and it was like close up, like maybe like from her chest
⏹️ ▶️ John up with the dog on her lap. And then they cut back to like a more sort of like
⏹️ ▶️ John a shot where the person in the Vision Pro was the size the person really was. So if they’re five feet tall, they look
⏹️ ▶️ John five feet tall in the Vision Pro. And suddenly the dog looked like way smaller because before I was
⏹️ ▶️ John closer to the dog, but I just thought it was a giant dog because I had no way to like compare scale.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, you see this when they get close to people’s faces. It’s unnerving because it looks
⏹️ ▶️ John like a gigantic dog or head or whatever, really close to you.
⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t like, I don’t know if they can do the same thing with scale because when they go close
⏹️ ▶️ John up, you don’t think that person is huge. You just know that they’re taking a tighter shot. But when you can see them in 3D,
⏹️ ▶️ John I kept thinking the dogs were bigger than they were until I saw them like walking around. I’m like, oh no, that dog is the size of a rat.
⏹️ ▶️ John It just looked huge because I was three inches away from it And it was in 3D, and it felt like,
⏹️ ▶️ John it was very strange. So maybe that’s just me having to get used to stuff like that, but it is a weird experience
⏹️ ▶️ John to not know the size of things, because they seem like they’re right in front of you, but they’re not. It’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John a picture on a screen with a big FOV. Yeah.
Marco’s experiment
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Marco, you did an experiment recently. Tell me about that, please.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s kind of an experiment in progress, actually. Oh, okay. I think this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco might surprise you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, gosh. Me personally or just both of us?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, okay. I’ll try to make this quick. I decided,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, kind of in like the Cortex yearly theme arena, this year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wanted to focus generally on efficiency in my life.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a bunch of, you know, just kind of cruft I’ve built up over the years, friction I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tolerated over the years, that I’m trying to just kind of find
⏹️ ▶️ Marco inefficiencies and consider whether I want to keep them that way or not.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not like being ruthless, trying to cut every single efficiency, but just kind of be aware
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of inefficiencies, think about them, consider whether I want to make a change.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then if I want to, then make a change.
⏹️ ▶️ John Jump in for a second here. I’m thinking in my head, what inefficiencies does Marco have in his life? And
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll be honest, not a lot is jumping to mind. Like you don’t strike me, you’re not the kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of person to tolerate inefficiencies.
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t wait to hear, Do you have any ideas before he tells us what he’s talking about, Casey? What inefficiencies are in Marco’s life?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, it seems like there’s not a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’m struggling. Like, there’s more inefficiency
⏹️ ▶️ John in my life for sure. I feel like…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, like, I have two houses. Like, that’s never efficient. Like, there’s…
⏹️ ▶️ John But there, but like, you have so much less stuff than I do. And
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s like, you don’t… Oh, I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s necessarily the case.
⏹️ ▶️ John But just, it just, like, I don’t, well, I’ve got nothing. I just, your life always seems
⏹️ ▶️ John like the model of efficiency to me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, then yours must be a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey disaster. It is.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve seen the basement of the Beach House and I wouldn’t say that there’s unreasonable things down there,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but in the basement, there was a lot of things down there, as an example.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John We’re thinking
⏹️ ▶️ John of things though, that’s not just, like inefficiencies like, you know, every day I come home I have to
⏹️ ▶️ John do this thing because the knob sticks and I just deal with it
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and the lights don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John turn on right. And Marco doesn’t tolerate that, he gets it fixed. That’s the kind of thing I’m thinking about. All right, well, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s things in your life that we don’t know about, but it seems, I mean, your computer stuff and your technology stuff seems pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey efficient. Well, except the only thing I can think of is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something to do with cellular and travel and hotspots and things of that nature. That’s fine,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of course your mind would go there. Well, I mean, Marco and I-
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I mean, he can
⏹️ ▶️ John get rid of the Vision Pro, but he was the first of us to get rid of his Synology or just essentially stop using it because it didn’t fit
⏹️ ▶️ John efficient technology life.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You were giving me a lot more credit than I deserve for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John efficiency. All right, well, go ahead. Let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see what you got. So I’m looking at a bunch of different things this year. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m looking at Overcast, like just the hosting stack of Overcast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John inefficient. Okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John I should have thought of that. You’re right, that is inefficient.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, there’s stuff there. I’m looking into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more with S3 type things, with Cloudflare, different things there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m gonna look at throughout the year. There’s,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mentioned very briefly last episode that I was looking at some financial planning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff and there’s some inefficiencies in how I was managing investments and I’ve been working on those recently.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But one other thing that just has been bothering me a lot recently
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is how badly 1Password
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Safari work together. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re still using 1Password?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s, and I started looking at like, okay, what, should I just go all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in on one password or go all in on Apple passwords? And,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, cause they’ve been kind of fighting each other for years now.
⏹️ ▶️ John should do one or the other for sure.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, something else has changed recently is that I’ve started using AI a lot. I started
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using chat GPT. I many times a day, just asking small questions,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically where I used to do more web searches or asking Siri for things,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been doing a lot more asking ChatGPT and that’s been going very well. Another thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that happened recently is Google Gemini got better and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I actually compare factual answers where I know the correct factual answer between ChatGPT
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Google Gemini, Gemini was getting it right a little bit more often and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are certain things about about Gemini that I don’t like as much as ChatGPT, but the sophistication of the model
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is hard to ignore. It is seemingly a little bit ahead of ChatGPT in a lot of things, not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in everything, and it has its own quirks and annoyances, but Gemini has been pretty good recently.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I also started thinking about AI, and I’m like, you know, Google, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a really bright future here, because when you look
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at how these AI things are advancing and what’s the next step?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the next step for ChatGPT is figuring out their business model and making their ad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system. And as you integrate more into things,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need data sources, you need deals with other vendors or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like business and directory providers, mapping providers, different affiliate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco deals with everybody to try to monetize through that. If you wanna be able to book hotels or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need that. I started thinking, you know, Google is in a really good position for this world.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They had a bit of a slow start, but they make the models. They have their own in-house
⏹️ ▶️ Marco models. Okay, OpenAI has that too. That’s great. Google has their own
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cloud infrastructure. Okay, well, OpenAI doesn’t really have much of that. Google makes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco their own chips to run it. and OpenEd doesn’t have that. And Google has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all these existing properties. They have data sources. They have the entire
⏹️ ▶️ Marco content of the web that they already have in their possession through means that most people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t wanna turn off. And I know they try to separate it, but it’s not that separate. They have Google Maps, and they recently
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just integrated Google Maps pretty well into Gemini. And so I was able to do something like, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was in the city yesterday and I said, make me a walk. I wanna walk about four miles.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get me a walk through Central Park, and it’s about four miles, somewhat scenic. And it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco generated, Gemini generated this walk, and it was stupid. It was, you know, I asked for a four mile walk,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it said, here’s a 3.1 mile walk, and it made, and I’m like, hold on. I asked for a four mile
⏹️ ▶️ Marco walk, please make it four miles, and it’s like, okay, here’s a 4.6 mile walk, I’m like, okay, well, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John know. Numbers are hard for them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Whatever, but using Google Maps, it showed me the route, and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it said, you can send this to your phone, to Google Maps. And it had a link,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I could send it to someone else walking with me, and I could save it if I wanted to. And that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco showed me, okay, this kind of integration, I think Google has a really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big edge here over everyone else. All the integrations that they’re gonna have with all their data,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they’re going to really build a big edge in the near term,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and long term probably as well. One of the reasons why I was interested in sending the link
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to my phone from Google Maps through Gemini is for all these years,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been bouncing between three different Maps apps on my phone, Google Maps, Apple Maps,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Waze for different purposes. Waze was my driving directions app because it’s good with navigating traffic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on Long Island. Google Maps, I would look up business info and stuff like that. And Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maps, I would occasionally use for something else, you know, maybe like walking directions.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But Apple Maps drives me nuts on the phone in one particular way, that when you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have active direction following going on in Apple Maps, it takes over the lock
⏹️ ▶️ Marco screen of the phone in a way that seems to significantly and reliably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slow down unlocking the phone for me. Because it’s like, you unlock the phone so you can see, like, so you can navigate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the map, really, and then you can extra swipe to go to the home screen. I can’t find a way to turn that off.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like the way Apple Maps takes over the home screen, the lock screen rather. And so that actually drives me crazy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’m trying to use Apple Maps for navigation. So that alone is a reason why I mostly didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it for that. And then Google Maps, I would look up businesses and it has by far the best business
⏹️ ▶️ Marco data with like, find me coffee shops near here. And then are they open right now? What are their
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hours? Are they good? Give me ratings. Like Google Maps destroys Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maps in that. And Google also owns Waze, and so they have access to all the same traffic data. And so I decided
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is ridiculous, to have three different Maps apps, the year of efficiency, I’m gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to use just one Maps app for everything. And the only one that made sense to do that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with is Google Maps. So for the last month or so, I’ve been using exclusively
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Google Maps. Okay, so when I had Gemini generate me my Google walking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco directions, it was great, send us my phone. Okay, done. And it was perfect,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was there, I could pull it up instantly. And it’s a walking route through Central Park that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had like six different stops and they all transferred perfectly. And I could view it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again. Like when I actually went on the walk, like the next day I viewed it, it was still there. It hadn’t like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fallen out of memory or whatever. Like the link still worked. It was still sent to my phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It worked really well, honestly. And Google Maps for driving directions, there’s a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of small ways in which it works better than ways. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know this is a confusing thing to hear, like the M5 Max Max, you know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a lot of ways that Google Maps is a little bit better than Waze. Not in every possible way, but in most ways.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like a little bit nicer, a little bit more advanced. It’s also a lot faster
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at everything. Any kind of like, one of the downsides of Waze is if you ask for directions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhere, it kind of spins for a while before it generates them. I don’t know why this is different, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Google Maps and Waze are both owned by Google and both seem to operate in most of the same data, but getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco directions to Google Maps is almost instantaneous every time. That is not the case with Waze. I’ve used Waze
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for years. It isn’t my connection, like I know. Waze is slow to generate directions, and Google Maps is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco instant. Google Maps also had better voice search. It’s better for like, oh, find me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a charging station along this route. It’s better for all of those things. So, so far, I’m very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy with Google Maps as my only mapping app. Again, it’s not perfect, but I think it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way better than using three different apps for the same thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was not the efficiency I expected you to
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a minor efficiency, but I’m glad to see you drop down from three to one.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. I mean, I occasionally will use Google Maps, although very rarely, and typically, if anything,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s for business information, like you had said. I almost never use Waze, but I’m almost never in places
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that have traffic. And I actually find that Apple Maps is good for me for 98%
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the things that I use it for. It was not good at first for sure, but last few years
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s been quite good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The issue with Apple Maps, again, besides my irritation with the way it takes over the lock screen and slows down unlocking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of my phone a lot for some reason, my issue with Apple Maps is the same issue I have with Waze
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that if I’m gonna only have one mapping app, neither of those is good enough to be the one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, because Apple Maps really falls down with business information.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I didn’t even know it had business
⏹️ ▶️ John information. I always use Google Maps for that, and this does not even know. And it’s not even like, I know that’s part of
⏹️ ▶️ John Maps, but like Google has like reviews and like pictures of all the food and the menus and
⏹️ ▶️ John like, that’s a whole separate like product. And it’s like, oh, and by the way, this point on the map brings up that
⏹️ ▶️ John info, but Apple, I mean, I guess Apple has some business info, but it doesn’t compare. But I use Google Maps and Apple Maps
⏹️ ▶️ John and Google for all the reasons that you said, but I use Apple for driving
⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re much more attractive and larger for my old eyes. Viewing
⏹️ ▶️ John of the road and the lanes, I find really helps. Although I will say that sometimes it makes me still makes
⏹️ ▶️ John me do very stupid things and I get angry at it and switch back to Google Maps. So I’m down to two, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m glad to hear that you’re down to one. All right.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So also in the same vein, again, thinking about the whole picture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, AI is a big deal and it keeps getting better and it keeps getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger and it’s taking over what used to be web search for me. I I realized
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, so for my web search engines, I for years used DuckDuckGo.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one of the things I got hooked on with DuckDuckGo is the bang shortcut syntax,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for searching Amazon. So when you have DuckDuckGo, you can type in exclamation point A,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco space, and then whatever you want, and that’s a shortcut to Amazon. You can customize those, there’s a bunch built in, there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco G for Google, if you wanna quickly jump over to Google search, There’s bang eBay for an eBay search.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like there’s a bunch built in. I mostly use the Amazon one a lot and occasionally the eBay one.
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, if you use Safari like I do, you can do that with a Safari extension where I just type a
⏹️ ▶️ John Z space and then a search in my address bar and does the same thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s a few different extensions. One of some of which I found via try2b2. But yeah, there’s a few different extensions that do this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But Safari also supports DuckDuckGo as a built-in search engine. So it’s very, very easy to switch to it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco In recent, in the last I think two years or so, I’ve been
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using Kagi. Same. I heard it on the talk show, like the CEO has actually been on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the talk show, I think twice with John Gruber. And it sounded interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me, and I’ve been using Kagi for the last couple years. And it’s been pretty good,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like as a web search, if you actually want web search, you wanna like find
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a review of a new fridge, Google is garbage for that. It’s just, it’s been gamed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like crazy and it’s really hard to find good info on Google. And part of that is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because everything’s been gamed. Part of that’s also because there’s increasingly less and less good content to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco find because the web is dying in large part due to AI, but also it was dead before that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was dead because social networks killed it. So the web is really not in a great place right now, content wise,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hasn’t been for years. And Google hasn’t really seemingly worked very hard on their web search in that time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco either. So it’s not like they’re without fault here, but the web’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a tough spot, and web search has therefore been really bad. And that’s part of why I have so much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco value these days in AI, because it’s better at giving me information
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than web search has been for many years. So I’ve been using Kaki, and I’ve been, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I realized I’ve been less and less actually going to the search results page. Usually I’m using Kaki
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just search Amazon. So I thought, what, you know, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the era of all of this AI stuff, I’m like, I’m trying Google maps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m trying Gemini. Why don’t I just try using Google as my search engine again? What am I doing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fighting all this? Like I fought, I fought against Google. I’ve raged against the Google machine for years,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for decades, actually. And why? Like, let’s give it a shot.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I have switched back to Google as my search engine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t like that at all.
⏹️ ▶️ John I never left. Although the AI search results at the top really annoy me. Yes, I know how to get rid of them with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, to be clear, like the AI summary on top of Google search results is horrendously bad. It’s very bad. Sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s funny. It’s so often comically wrong. And when I say Gemini
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is good, that’s not what I’m talking
⏹️ ▶️ John The worst part about them though, is because they are at the top of the Google search results. everyone in my life, anytime
⏹️ ▶️ John they quote unquote, look up something on their phone, I have to ask them to scroll past the AI search results.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not, like just, I wanna know the actual answer. The AI search results at the top of Google are hilariously
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad. They’re so, like, I think Google is giving AI a bad name with those. I honestly think Google should,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they should either make them use a better model,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John which I know-
⏹️ ▶️ John I kind of understand why they’re so bad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like, cause like the scaling of that, it would be incredible.
⏹️ ▶️ John like, they don’t wanna get, like it’s too expensive to give everyone a good AI search result, but I feel like almost like they should go back to the old days
⏹️ ▶️ John where they just had like canned responses to common queries that they would actually like look up and have like, you know, just the dumb
⏹️ ▶️ John old sort of like hard coded, if someone asked for this thing, run this thing instead of just like,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, check it to Gemini, but one of our tiny little models and it will give total BS. So it just annoys me that
⏹️ ▶️ John at the top you have to scroll past it. And I forget what the query parameter is that you can put into your Google search query, so it doesn’t show that, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just such a hassle because it’s not so much me, I can scroll past them, it’s everyone else in the world
⏹️ ▶️ John who now quote unquote look something up on their phone and they read the total BS that’s at the top of the Google search results.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I say, no, keep scrolling, keep scrolling.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really think Google’s doing way more harm than good for both themselves and for the perception
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, well, I was going to say the good news, but it’s maybe not the good news. But like, as the cost of inference
⏹️ ▶️ John goes down, presumably those answers will get better-ish, but I will never accept them
⏹️ ▶️ John as the result of quote unquote looking something up. You didn’t look something up, you just took a stew of words that
⏹️ ▶️ John came out of a probability machine and read it back. If you’re going to take the time to type something
⏹️ ▶️ John into Google, look it up at a source. So get some kind of source. Just source it from somewhere, not
⏹️ ▶️ John the amalgam of all the words and information run through a blender.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. So anyway, tell us how you really feel, John. So all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right, I’m trying out Google as my search engine. And so far, I’ve said it that way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a couple days ago, I’ve barely noticed any difference because the first thing I did
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was, oh, let me figure out a way to get my Amazon shortcuts to work again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, you know, there’s these extensions. And then something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco else happened a few days ago. I saw somebody filling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out a form and I noticed their auto-fill worked a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hell of a lot better than mine. Okay. Every time I place an order
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for something, you know, Safari will will offer me like, you know, the fill the information and it’s,
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, you switched to Chrome, didn’t you?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. That’s what I was thinking.
⏹️ ▶️ John We all feel a little bit better sometimes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am trying Chrome.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my God. You’re going to have an Android phone before the end of the year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, that’s definitely not going to happen, but I’m not so sure. I am. So that’s, that’s the, the final
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shoe here is that I have tried switching to Chrome. I’m only like a day in.
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re becoming more like me. You’re using Google Maps, you’re using Chrome, Google Search, I’ve been
⏹️ ▶️ John using those things all along. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s the thing about Chrome. Chrome is as annoying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as Google has always been with Chrome, with the very heavy handing, pushing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the logins for everything. And so yeah, you know what, fine, I logged in. I’m doing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it the way they want me to do it. The same way, like, if you wanna use Apple products, you can rage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco against the machine, and not sign into an Apple ID and not use the app store. You can do it, it’s just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco harder. And again, my thing here is like, I have been fighting this fight for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so long. No one cares, it’s not affecting anyone but me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Meanwhile, when I see certain things, the way they work in Chrome,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look, I’ve been using Safari full-time on all my devices for well over 10 years.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I have to bounce over to Chrome pretty often because whatever I’m using
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t work in, like some like, you know, oh, I have to fill out like some state tax website thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it doesn’t work right in Safari. Ugh, first I try, okay, well, what if I disable all my content blocker?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe it’s my fault. Nope, try again, and it still doesn’t work because it just doesn’t work in Safari. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can make an argument for like, is this people not following the standards? Is it Safari not following
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the standards? Is it web developers not testing things right? And the answer is yes, it’s all of those things. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my problem is that sites don’t work in Safari sometimes and I have to go redo the same action in Chrome.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s Apple’s problem to fix. I don’t wanna make it my problem. And whatever the reason, whoever’s at fault,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s Apple’s problem. Why am I continuing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to battle this unless there’s really, really good value there? Okay, so if Safari is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way better than Chrome in a bunch of other ways, then I’ll take that. I’ll keep fighting that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fight. But whenever I pop over to Chrome to do something, I notice a couple of things. Number one, everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco works. Number two, it’s so fast at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything. Now part of that is, you know, I think there’s just fewer animations and stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It also still looks the way a web browser should look, unlike Liquid Glass, but okay. Everything in Chrome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is faster. Everything. Opening and closing tabs is faster.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Loading websites for some reason is faster. Everything is faster in Chrome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not a little bit. Switching from Safari to Chrome feels like when I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco switched from Intel to Apple Silicon in terms of performance. It’s like everything is just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco baseline faster by a lot. And also,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one password works a thousand times better in Chrome than in Safari.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Logging into websites, auto-filling forms, It’s so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good and so fast. I have been wasting years of my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco life typing my name and address into web forms that didn’t autofill correctly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and filling out password forms because it didn’t autofill my password or having to paste in my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 2FA code because that didn’t autofill. Chrome works so much better in those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways. And 1Password works so much better in Chrome and it’s all so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fast. So that’s what I’m trying. I’m trying Chrome as my default
⏹️ ▶️ Marco browser on my Macs. I don’t know, I downloaded the iOS version of Chrome. I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I’m gonna stick with that, but I wanted to give it a shot.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, don’t bother with that. You’re not missing anything there.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. It’s the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but there’ll be other benefits if sync and everything are good, which I don’t actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know yet. Because, so obviously when you switch from Safari to Chrome and you’re otherwise an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple person, you’re gonna give up certain things. you’re gonna give up certain integrations.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, one thing I’ve noticed is that Chrome on Tahoe has the auto-fill
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for messages, which is nice. I don’t think I’m gonna switch to Tahoe on my main Mac yet because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still hate everything else about it, but I was using it on my laptop that has Tahoe and I noticed that it did the auto-fill
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for messages thing because I think Apple added an API for that in Tahoe. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that kind of made me jealous of Tahoe briefly.
⏹️ ▶️ John But the one biggest downside to Chrome, which luckily you’re avoiding, is if
⏹️ ▶️ John like me you are an iCloud keychain user and not a 1Password user, the
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s keychain plugin extension for Chrome,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine. I understand why it works the way it does, but there’s some additional friction because of their
⏹️ ▶️ John understandably paranoid security where if you don’t use it often enough on a particular site,
⏹️ ▶️ John you have to end up unlocking it by typing in a six digit code before you can do the autofill. And that’s a step you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have to take with one password. And that’s a step you don’t have to take when you’re using iCloud keychain
⏹️ ▶️ John in Safari. So there’s a little bit of friction there. And then the other bit is if you’ve been using
⏹️ ▶️ John Chrome since the beginning, like I have and never stopped, you end up with tons of like stuff and
⏹️ ▶️ John Google’s password manager and migrating off of that because it used to be you couldn’t use like keychain
⏹️ ▶️ John at all directly within Chrome. And then I made that extension. So some of my passwords are in Chrome and some of my passwords
⏹️ ▶️ John were in ICOG key chain. And doing that transition has been a pain, especially since basically the most
⏹️ ▶️ John expedient way to do it is to not disable Chrome’s autofill. So now I’ve got two autofills fighting in the same web page.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m I’m I’m almost done with that transition. But one password, this is one of the the beauty
⏹️ ▶️ John and former sponsor of the show, whatever. But one of the things about one password is that
⏹️ ▶️ John it is, in fact, cross platform, cross everything. So it is works in Safari. It
⏹️ ▶️ John works in Chrome. It’s the same wherever you put it. It’s not like. Apple’s thing, which works
⏹️ ▶️ John way better in Safari than it does in Chrome.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And so I, at this point, like so far, my experiment with Chrome, again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s only been a couple of days, but so far I, it feels amazing to be this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fast and this automated in so many ways and to just have fewer problems. And this, this is what, this is the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of thing that I’m, that I’m hoping to do more of during my year of efficiency. It’s just like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been doing certain, I’ve been tolerating certain friction and, and, you know, doing a lot of manual work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and shuffling things back and forth. And I know this isn’t going to be a panacea, like again, like, because I’m not going to have Chrome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably on my iPhone, cause it is kind of weird there. But because I’m not going to do that, I’ll miss out on like, you know, certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shared histories and things like if I’m using Safari on the phone, but Chrome on the desktop. So, you know, I know there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be some additional friction there and maybe long-term I will realize that’s not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worth it and maybe I’ll switch all the way back to Safari again. But right now, like the initial
⏹️ ▶️ Marco impression of just having Chrome as default, it’s just so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fast. And I’m looking forward to things not breaking as much or at all, because I’ve just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been dealing with so much of that.
⏹️ ▶️ John I have a different name for your yearly theme. It’s the year of basic. Because you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco becoming basic. You’re gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John Google for search. You’re gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John Chrome for your browser, which by the way, go look at any kid. And like, they want to use Chrome as their browser.
⏹️ ▶️ John My kids refuse to use Safari because they’ve just grown up on Chrome. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re using the things that everybody else uses. You’re not using DuckDuckGo and Koggy
⏹️ ▶️ John and sticking with Safari. You’re just gonna use Google search and Chrome and Google
⏹️ ▶️ John Maps, the year of basic, but in a good way in parentheses. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because like, again, it’s just, I’m tired of fighting all these fights that don’t matter
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to anybody but me. Like all these years I’ve been raging against this stuff and you know what, in the meantime,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, you know, Chrome has some downsides and Google’s really creepy. And it used to have a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big battery cost on Apple’s computers. Well, I think Apple’s computers are so good now that the battery cost,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I’ll take it. Yeah, the battery cost is
⏹️ ▶️ John still there. It’s Safari is still better in power.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sure, but you know what? If it gets me this much speed, fine. I accept the battery cost.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, these laptops have great battery life these days. I can spare a little bit to have some of my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time back. And so that, I think like that’s a major shift here. I think AI is a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big shift here and integrating Gemini with all your stuff. I think it’s gonna be increasingly valuable. I’m not gonna switch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Gmail or anything. Although I did briefly consider like, should I start like forwarding all my email to Gmail
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so we can maybe integrate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John stuff there?
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re turning into me.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, you really
⏹️ ▶️ John are. God help us all. Should try using an Intel Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, let’s not be too ridiculous. So this is where I am. And I want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to, I think the AI revolution is blowing a lot of stuff wide open in tech, and it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna keep doing that, as we were saying earlier. And so I wanna actually challenge my assumptions that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve had for the previous eras of tech. My assumptions of I should avoid Google because they kind of creep
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me out and I don’t like the way they do some stuff. It’s like, okay, well, Apple has their own BS too. None
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the tech giants are particularly clean in that way anymore, if they ever were. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are certain areas that I think deserve re-evaluation sometimes. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the wake of significant disruption, which is what AI is doing and will continue to do, that’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good opportunity to re-evaluate some of your assumptions and long-held habits
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and allegiances, and it’s like, is this still best for me? Is this, are my assumptions still the case?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And are the choices I made 15 years ago still the choices I should make
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or are certain things worth re-evaluating? And so that’s what I’m doing. I’m heading into this year doing some of that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reevaluation and hopefully save myself a bunch of time along the way and hopefully, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco making some good stuff for the show, whether, whether it succeeds or not.
⏹️ ▶️ John Chaos is a ladder. Casey? Nope. Anyone? Nope.
⏹️ ▶️ John not. Not, not, I’m not asking you, Marco. Come on. Yeah. Anyway, chaos is a ladder and Marco’s climbing it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey What is that from, John?
⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, Game of Thrones.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve never seen it. No.
⏹️ ▶️ John Jesus Christ. All right, fine. I didn’t expect Marco to see it, but
⏹️ ▶️ John all All right then.
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Xcode agentic coding
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. So breaking news as we’re recording, Apple has just released in the last 24 hours. Is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a beta or is it? It’s a beta, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Release candidate for Xcode 26.3, which adds agentic coding. Reading from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple’s newsroom, Xcode 26.3 introduces support for agentic coding, a new way in Xcode for developers
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to build apps using coding agents such as Anthropx, CloudAgent, and OpenAI’s Codex. can search
⏹️ ▶️ Casey documentation, explore file structures, update project settings, and verify their work visually by capturing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Xcode previews and iterating through builds and fixes. In addition to these built-in integrations,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Xcode 26.3 makes its capabilities available through the Model Context Protocol, an open standard that gives developers the flexibility
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to use any compatible agent or tool with Xcode. I have not personally had a chance to try this. I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been busy trying to get ready the next release of CallSheet. But, John, you’ve dabbled for quite a while,
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, so first of all, I think it is notable that Apple has rolled this out in a in
⏹️ ▶️ John twenty six point three of Xcode rather than like saving it up for a big reveal WDVC
⏹️ ▶️ John because they see the writing on the wall, which is everyone is using these things. It’s not just because they saw that I was using it last week,
⏹️ ▶️ John but like, you know, like people have been using
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco these things for months and
⏹️ ▶️ John months. Oh, crap. They got Syracuse. Yeah, that’s right. By the time it’s like it’s like a penetrating
⏹️ ▶️ John the boomers, like by the time I’m using it, really, Apple’s behind the times that they’re not integrating. and they had like the AI
⏹️ ▶️ John coding assistant in their models and stuff like that, but everyone is using things like cloud code and has been for ages. And it’s like, why is this
⏹️ ▶️ John not integrated with Xcode? And we’ve heard rumors about that for ages. I mean, one of the original AI rumors just like that
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is doing a deal with Anthropic to integrate cloud into Xcode or whatever. Anyway, they released it. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John here, I’ve tried it. It’s nice that they are, it makes them seem nimble.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s nimble for Apple. I’m not saying it’s nimble, because it’s not, because they’re behind, right? But it’s nimble for Apple to actually
⏹️ ▶️ John roll this out. And it more or less works. And I wanted to try it. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still on Xcode 26.0.1 because of the Tahoe icon issue, where that’s the last version
⏹️ ▶️ John of Xcode that will let me have the new icon on the new OS and the old icon on the old OS before Apple broke it and refused
⏹️ ▶️ John to fix it. So I installed 26.3 on
⏹️ ▶️ John one of my development machines, the one that’s running Tahoe, in fact. And I wanted to try it out. And the problem I
⏹️ ▶️ John gave it was, I can’t use the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Tahoe icon on Tahoe and the old icon, old
⏹️ ▶️ John OS’s, fix that for me. This is your hotspot. Yeah, and so
⏹️ ▶️ John I tried Cloud Code on it and Cloud Code said, oh, you know, you can’t do that and here’s why. I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ John I know, I know Cloud Code, but I want you to try and see what we can do. And I went back
⏹️ ▶️ John and forth with it for a while. It was heroic, it tried a lot of things. It was like writing Python scripts
⏹️ ▶️ John to parse the assets.car file and doing all sorts of stuff. and we
⏹️ ▶️ John tried all sorts of, whereby we, I mean it, and me just like telling you what to do. There are
⏹️ ▶️ John all sorts of stuff. The integration with Xcode is pretty good. Like it is, you know, I’ve only used the command line
⏹️ ▶️ John Cloud Code, but I know that there’s lots of gooey stuff out there, like the new Codex thing from OpenAI. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John the integration Xcode in a sidebar, it feels kind of cramped, but it’s like, it’s fine. Cloud Code can do lots
⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff in Xcode, but not all things. Occasionally it would say, hey, put this as a new build
⏹️ ▶️ John phase, copy this build script. And it had nice affordances for like, you just click on and it will copy the full content. So you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not like dragging out, you know, but it, but it couldn’t, it couldn’t add a build phase itself. It needed me to copy
⏹️ ▶️ John and paste the shell script into the build phase and do all this stuff. So I was like, oh, that’s, that’s kind of cruddy,
⏹️ ▶️ John but whatever. Anyway, it failed. They couldn’t get it to work. So I’m like, okay, next up, let’s try
⏹️ ▶️ John the OpenAI’s codex. And for Claude, again, I was using whatever that expensive plan I have
⏹️ ▶️ John now. And for OpenAI, I forget which plan I was using, but you get to use the good model. You get to use 5.2.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I tried with Codex and it said the same thing. Oh, I just look this up and that’s not a thing you can do. And I said, I know,
⏹️ ▶️ John I know it seems like you can’t do it, but let’s find a way. And I went back and forth. And basically I rubber ducked with it
⏹️ ▶️ John a lot because when you’re explaining, rubber ducking is when you’re facing a programming problem and you explain
⏹️ ▶️ John it to a rubber duck. Rubber duck’s not gonna help you, but the act of you having to explain it makes you
⏹️ ▶️ John verbalize things that you hadn’t thought of before. And so me with rubber ducking, I’m typing into the prompt like, I
⏹️ ▶️ John know it seems like you can’t do it, but like, look, Xcode 26.0.1 does it.
⏹️ ▶️ John The app is on the App Store right now. If you download it, it has the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Tahoe icon on
⏹️ ▶️ John Tahoe and it has the pre-Tahoe icon. Like, I know it’s possible. Just because the version of AC
⏹️ ▶️ John tool, the command line tool, that came with all versions of Xcode after 26.0.1 can’t do it, the old one could.
⏹️ ▶️ John So whatever it’s doing, let’s do that here. And I’m going back and forth with Rubber Duck and I was like, wait a second, why don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John I just take the assets file with the icons in it from the version I
⏹️ ▶️ John built, like from the App Store version, from the version I built with 26.0.1,
⏹️ ▶️ John and copy it into my Git repository from my app and just say,
⏹️ ▶️ John hey, add a new build phase. When all the building is done, your final step before code signing is
⏹️ ▶️ John to chuck out the asset stock card that you just built with Xcode 26.3 and replace
⏹️ ▶️ John it with the one I just copied from my App Store build. And so that’s what I told it to do. I had
⏹️ ▶️ John rubber ducted it and I’m like, This is terrible and stupid, but it should work. And then rather than dirty my
⏹️ ▶️ John hands doing it, I just said to Codex, here, here’s slash application slash switchglass.app
⏹️ ▶️ John slash blah, blah, blah, that asset star car file, put it in my Git repo, make a build phase
⏹️ ▶️ John and blah, blah. And by the way, Codex can make build phases by itself. Codex didn’t ask me to do anything. Codex seems to
⏹️ ▶️ John have much deeper hooks into the MC, I don’t know if it’s MCP or whatever it is, but it has much deeper hooks into
⏹️ ▶️ John Xcode where it never asked me to do things myself. It’s just like, I can make a build phase. I can do this, although Codex was
⏹️ ▶️ John so needy with like asking permissions, no matter how many times it said, always allow, always allow, always allow, there was always
⏹️ ▶️ John another prompt coming. So these things are a little bit fuzzy. But anyway, Codex did this
⏹️ ▶️ John for me. I now have a terrible, hideous workaround. And of course, if I ever wanna change my app
⏹️ ▶️ John icon, I have to do it in Xcode 26.0.1. And yes, I have filed
⏹️ ▶️ John a feedback against this as an enhancement request asking Apple not to be this dumb. We’ll see if it ever gets fixed.
⏹️ ▶️ John In the meantime, I use the coding agents, I think for a first implementation in an RC, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco lots of people are doing
⏹️ ▶️ John even more impressive things with it, but I was happy to see that it served its function both as,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I think letting me try these integrations, but also letting me rubber duck with it. Because I think that is actually
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the roles. I mean, Casey you talked today about talking to it as like kind of a coworker, but a rubber ducking
⏹️ ▶️ John is another thing that coworkers are good for. They ignoring you,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they have their
⏹️ ▶️ John headphones on, they’re just nodding politely, but you explaining the current thing you’re fighting with can make you realize,
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, what am I doing? Why don’t I just copy the good file out of the app? It’s on the app store now and check it into my repo.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is a very weird way of going about this. But when you don’t have a whole lot of other choice, it makes sense.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s terrible. Like to be clear, it’s hideous. Like it’s, I should never have to be done, but you gotta do a lot of hideous things in Tahoe.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then the other, the other angle on this is, so Kyle Hughes posted
⏹️ ▶️ John a graph. I’m not sure where it came from, but his wording on it was 2025 was indeed the dawn
⏹️ ▶️ John of drop shipping apps as the prophecy foretold. Uh, I’ll put a link in the show notes to drop shipping, but it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John by making it easier to become like essentially a merchant online where you don’t have any inventory and you just take orders and then
⏹️ ▶️ John take the thing from somebody else and make it ship to you. I did increase the number of people selling things online. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John the graph is how many iOS apps have been released per month. And you can put a dotted
⏹️ ▶️ John line on the graph where like agentic coding arrived and the lines going up much faster than it was before.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like before it was basically flat and now it’s taken off and it’s not shocking because if you put a coding agent to
⏹️ ▶️ John Xcode and you can just type words in the sidebar in English and get an app out of it and you can totally do that,
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, there’s going to be more stuff submitted to the app store. Probably more junk, but it’s a concern for all of us because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like app review was particularly, it’s been reasonably
⏹️ ▶️ John speedy compared to the bad old days, but like this increase is not going to help things.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I think this is this is the least of our problems in terms of that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s problem. But yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the area of like, how
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much is agentic coding going to affect both us as developers
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also the software environment on the iPhone? Those are huge questions.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think the answer is going to be it’s going to affect us a lot in both ways. It already
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is affecting us a lot. That’s the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It’s already happening. We’re in it. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is happening today. And we don’t even cover the whole Claude bot, Molt bot, OpenClaw thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s so much happening right now driven by AI that it’s hard to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even hear about it all, let alone try it all or become proficient
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in any of it. We’re in such high motion right now. But will software developers like us,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will we even be that necessary going forward? Or like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what, what will junior developers do? Like, maybe you have one senior developer, you know, controlling a bunch of agents
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like that themselves are controlling a bunch of agents. Like there’s so many ways this can go, but.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s, it’s looking like we should not underestimate the capabilities of these systems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the foreseeable future. Cause there’s, there’s so much that they’re, that they are already doing today. This is an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco area, like I personally, I feel like I’m way behind because I have not yet used much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AI coding at all. I haven’t done any of the agentic stuff. I’ve only been like, you know, asking the chatbots
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for code snippets here and there. Like, you know, today I was writing something for Overcast today and I was like, oh, I have like this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco set of data here. And what’s in it? How do I, write me some Swift code to take this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco set of data that I have and make it into this other type of format. And it’s like, oh, well, the algorithm you want is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco called this. And here’s an invitation with Swift that uses generics. And I plopped it right in and it was great.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But even that, like, this is just like me typing in my name in a web form? Why am I wasting time copying and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pasting Swift code that is generating into my project and integrating it myself when I could just be using these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco agents to say, just make this feature work? And I don’t think we’re that far from that even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for very complex things. Like we’re already, we’re there already for a lot of simple stuff. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this stuff is, you know, just been born basically. Like we’re so early into this and it’s this good already.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is getting better rapidly. And I think we are in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a real inflection point for many industries, including our own.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I don’t know that it’s necessarily super destructive,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s certainly very different. And we, again, we’ve got to get on board
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or be OK with being abandoned.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and comparing this, I mean, I know it’s the same underlying tech, but comparing this to the early optimism
⏹️ ▶️ John about how LLMs are gonna lead us to AGI, the real AI, the thing
⏹️ ▶️ John that used to be called AI before we took the term and perverted it. You know, like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco how 9,000, human level intelligence. So
⏹️ ▶️ John like all we need to do is add more parameters. And the experience with like, you know, open AI
⏹️ ▶️ John going from chat GPT, you know, two and three and four, you know, going up is like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John they kind of have plateaued in how good those things that you can talk to work. It seems like that’s not a direct path to
⏹️ ▶️ John AGI, but the coding engines using the same underlying technology, we’re not asking them to be HAL 9000.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’re asking them to do one very specific thing, which is write code. And they are getting better at that, kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of like how fast LMs are getting better between GPD 2.3 and 4. Like they’re in that
⏹️ ▶️ John phase. Now, maybe they’ll plateau out as well, but we are in the upward curve
⏹️ ▶️ John of coding agents. They are getting rapidly better, much faster
⏹️ ▶️ John than the, oh, ask me a general question and I’ll tell you something and hopefully it’s not total BS, right? because
⏹️ ▶️ John I think, again, I say it’s because code, you know, it can test it itself. Like you
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t do that with facts. You ask something and it gives you, well, here’s a plausible answer, but is it right? It can’t help you with
⏹️ ▶️ John that, right? But code, you can run it. You can write tests against it. You can iterate on that
⏹️ ▶️ John until the tests pass, you know what I mean? And there’s tons of code out there, both open source and whatever, you know, like
⏹️ ▶️ John code is tractable in a way that general intelligence is not because you immediately
⏹️ ▶️ John run it and see if it does something. whether you’re running it or the agent is running it, you can tell
⏹️ ▶️ John to a much higher degree whether it is right. And I think that is helping these agents
⏹️ ▶️ John increase much more rapidly than currently the sort of like, I’m just a chatbot,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can talk to me. Like they seem to not be getting better as fast. Certainly they’re not getting as better as fast as they were between chat TBD
⏹️ ▶️ John two, three, and four. I feel like we’re in that phase now. So I don’t even know how good these things are
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be in like five to 10 years, unless this curve levels off. But right now it’s not leveling off. It’s getting better
⏹️ ▶️ John like every day, seemingly. So it’s an exciting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco technology. Yeah. And again, even if it is already leveled off and even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it never gets significantly better than how it is right now, it’s still amazingly useful and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is changing everything like that. And it will probably keep getting better. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I would bet that it’s continuing to get better, but yes, it are, it already is useful, but like, I talked a lot about this
⏹️ ▶️ John in the directives I just recorded yesterday. Like. The, it is a skill to know how to use this, just like it is a
⏹️ ▶️ John skill to be a senior developer that leads a team and talks to junior developers. That’s not,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a given that people will be good at that. And it is work and it is difficult. It’s just a different kind of work. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John there are people out there who are currently way better at using agents to get work done than other
⏹️ ▶️ John people. Like I’m just playing with it just cause it’s fun. Like, but I, I recognize how much of a novice I am at playing
⏹️ ▶️ John with these things and that it is in fact a different skill than having an actual human team.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s definitely a different skill than writing the code yourself. and these are all important skills. And I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ John any of them are going away, going away, but don’t think, oh, now anyone can do this because you can talk to
⏹️ ▶️ John it. It does make it open to more people, but the skills required to
⏹️ ▶️ John use an agent well are actually fairly difficult to master and require lots of
⏹️ ▶️ John expertise and are not sort of evenly distributed through the populace. So it’s really just more
⏹️ ▶️ John of a change in who might excel in a world where most coding is done
⏹️ ▶️ John by agents, but it’s not easy. And I don’t think it will actually be the case that it, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John depresses salaries or whatever. But I do think, you know, again, like the industrial revolution, lots of people will
⏹️ ▶️ John lose their jobs and then people they’ll die and new people will get different jobs and it’s going to be disruptive.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s going to be harmful and disruptive. And if done carelessly, it’s going to cause a lot of problems.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I think it is it will eventually be seen
⏹️ ▶️ John as progress, hopefully done in a way that is more humane than the industrial
⏹️ ▶️ John revolution and maybe also more humane than the PC revolution and the internet revolution.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s moving so fast. It’s hard to tell for sure, like how much of an impact this will have to how many things,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but so far, like that estimation as, as we learn
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more about these and as we use them more, that estimation is going up, not down. Like it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is very clear. This is changing more than we think this is reshaping a lot of industries, but it, it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco definitely is reshaping software development and using it like, which I’m I’m just saying it is its own
⏹️ ▶️ Marco skill. It’s like the birth of Google, speaking of which, like the birth of web search.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco When web search became a thing in the 90s, if you were good at using
⏹️ ▶️ Marco web search, you had like superpowers. And imagine how that translated to almost
⏹️ ▶️ Marco every part of life when no one else was using web search that much and you were the nerd
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who knew, who had access to the internet, who knew how to use web search, and maybe even were like the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco person who got good using like search operators to actually find better information.
⏹️ ▶️ John Before Google got rid of all those.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right. But like, you know, in the early, like that was, that was a superpower. And eventually then that power
⏹️ ▶️ Marco became, you know, everyone had it. And if you were like the one, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco neophyte back then, who was, you know, anti-computer,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait, is that neophyte? What’s the other one? No, that’s not neophyte.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the other, the opposite. Yeah. You’re trying to
⏹️ ▶️ John think of Luddite, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Luddite’s got a bad rap.
⏹️ ▶️ John Luddite’s got a bad rap, and they were mostly just arguing not to have reasonable labor laws.
⏹️ ▶️ John But anyway, that’s as it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco turns out. Oh, okay. Well, if you were anti-technology or ignoring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco technology throughout the 90s and 2000s and you missed the entire internet revolution,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could have gone on living life just fine. Millions of people did, but they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were increasingly being left behind by that world. We are now in the point with AI,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re like around 1999 in terms of search engines and the internet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like this is booming and it’s radically changing a lot of things.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can get good at it and you probably should get into this world because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s gonna change, it’s already changing a lot, it’s gonna keep changing more and more stuff. And you don’t have to, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can just ignore this. but you will be left behind. You are being left behind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco already. Soon, like most of the workforce is gonna be young enough that they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t care about whatever copyright things you might be worried about. They don’t care about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether AI is sometimes wrong or whether it’s making stuff up.
⏹️ ▶️ John they care about that, please. But sorry, like they’re not. I think
⏹️ ▶️ John being, correctness will still always be a measure somewhere. Otherwise, these planes are gonna be falling out of the sky and we’re
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be in idiocracy pouring soda on our planes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we might have some challenges in that area. Like that’s, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, don’t we have, didn’t we have the same challenges with web search?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I know. I think this is definitely more, there is more of an upside, but there’s also more of a downside. In web search, like
⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of a skill, it’s not that difficult of a skill. Whereas this is more like
⏹️ ▶️ John learning how to use Photoshop. Where Photoshop is this amazingly powerful tool. And if you,
⏹️ ▶️ John learning how to use Photoshop to its fullest potential makes you extremely valuable, but there’s a lot to learn.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like I know like one 10,000th of Photoshop and already I have more skills
⏹️ ▶️ John than most people I will meet. And someone who really knows how to use Photoshop, Photoshop made them incredibly
⏹️ ▶️ John powerful and there’s a lot to learn. And I feel like coding agents are like that where there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a huge depth of stuff to learn. And the problem with coding agents is they’re changing every single day. So if you waste your time
⏹️ ▶️ John becoming an expert in some particular coding agent, like all your skills are gonna be obsoleted tomorrow, but it’s just like learning Photoshop 1.0
⏹️ ▶️ John and then 2.0 then they add layers. You’re like, what the hell is a layer? Like in the early phases
⏹️ ▶️ John of powerful tools, there is an advantage to learning to harness them
⏹️ ▶️ John to maximum capacity, but expect your knowledge to be trashed periodically because things are changing so fast.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and that’s gonna be the case for a while, but like this train
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is moving, like this is where things are and will be going for the foreseeable future.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, and like, look, I am very often slow to adopt new technologies,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I recognize that I am behind in adopting AI coding.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even, you know, I’m like, you know, two months behind, but like, but I’m behind and I need
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get on that. Again, like if you want to keep working in this business, this is it. It is going to be a lot of skills
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we’re going to have to develop. You know, all of us old people who grew up without this, we’re going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have to do a lot of relearning. The same way when the internet came up, a lot of people had to do a lot of relearning who were already doing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things a certain way for 10, 20, 30, 40 years. You’re a
⏹️ ▶️ John graphic artist before Photoshop. You’re like, what the hell? None of my skills seem to transfer over. I know how to use all these
⏹️ ▶️ John papers and tracing things and X-Acto knives and tape, and you want me to use a computer? What? Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that is where we are. Jump in, because this is it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is not being put back in the bottle. And if you think copyright or moral
⏹️ ▶️ Marco arguments are gonna save you, I’m sorry, I have bad news for you. I don’t think that’s gonna happen. There
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were also copyright concerns over web search engines because in order for Google
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and other search engines to index content, they have to read it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s making a copy. Even temporarily in the server’s memory, that’s making a copy. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was litigated. Whether or not it was fair use to make a copy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of copyrighted stuff from a web page to just read it, from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a program, from either a search crawler or even a web browser. You have to make copies in memory
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do anything with anything. That’s copyright violation at the purest form. And that had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be litigated. Guess what? Technology won. Like the massive, massive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco utility of technology won out over nitpickiness over copyright
⏹️ ▶️ Marco law. And I think the same thing ultimately is gonna happen here. I mean, there might be a slightly bumpy route
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get there, but copyright’s not gonna kill AI. AI is here
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the value, the utility is so high, you’re not going to be magically safe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Nothing’s putting this genie back in the bottle. Nothing’s going to save us from this.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you really have a lot more faith in our judicial system than I do. Just because it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John make sense to you doesn’t mean it won’t become law in this country. Have you not learned anything?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, there’s a lot of money behind it. Don’t worry.
⏹️ ▶️ John There is, but still, even that’s not a guarantee. Anyway, I, I’m not as, I, I don’t, I don’t agree
⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s the, the same situation. I think we do need to make some adjustments for reasons that we’ve discussed on past episodes,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I just don’t know how it’s going to turn out because trying to use like logic and reason
⏹️ ▶️ John to predict what laws will be upheld in this country has not worked for decades. And it’s really depressing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. Thank you to our sponsors this week, Gusto, Factor, and Masterclass. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join us at atp.fm slash join. One of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco many perks of membership is ATP Overtime, our weekly bonus topic. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually about 15 to 25 minutes of one more topic for the show that we just, it kept
⏹️ ▶️ Marco falling down the list and we didn’t actually get to it. This week on Overtime, we’re gonna be talking about apparently Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is rumored to be making basically an AI pin. We’re gonna see what that’s about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we’re gonna talk about that in Overtime. You can join the list to listen, atv.fm slash join.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks everybody, I’m going to talk to you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, oh
⏹️ ▶️ John accidental John didn’t do any research, Margo and
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental, oh
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental And you can find the show notes at atp.fm
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Mastodon, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Auntie Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to
Neutral: Tesla killing S/X
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have one of our favorite segments, which is let’s make fun of Tesla and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Elon Musk. Tesla is killing off the Model S and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Model X. This is from TechCrunch from a couple of weeks ago. Tesla’s ending
⏹️ ▶️ Casey production of the Model S sedan and Model X SUV, CEO Elon Musk announced Wednesday during the company’s quarterly earnings
⏹️ ▶️ Casey call. The company will make the final versions of both electric vehicles next quarter, he said, adding that his company will offer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey support for existing Model S and Model X owners, quote, for as long as people have the vehicles.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Another quote from Elon, it’s time to basically bring the Model S and X programs to an end with an honorable discharge,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because we’re really moving into a future that is based on autonomy, he said. So if you’re interested in buying a Model
⏹️ ▶️ Casey S and X, now would be the time to order it. Sales of both models have flatlined in recent years.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Despite interior and exterior refreshes along the way, Tesla has faced increased competition in the luxury EV space from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey legacy automakers, as well as upstarts like Rivian and Lucid Motors. Also, their CEO
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a complete piece of sheet, which might have something to do with it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Little bit. Well, I mean, in the case of the S and the X though, like, what is the S from, 2014? Is that
⏹️ ▶️ John 2012, 2014? Like, in the car industry, there are generations
⏹️ ▶️ John of cars, usually numbered, like whatever generation of Honda Accord they’re on, and a generation will last multiple
⏹️ ▶️ John years, but not over a decade.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, they had like a half-generational update, or two
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John throughout. Right,
⏹️ ▶️ John But they just like, they were like, I guess we can just keep making the Model S forever. And the answer is no.
⏹️ ▶️ John You need, and I know they did like tweaks and the current Model S is very different from the previous one, but not that,
⏹️ ▶️ John like within the car world, it is the same generation. I know they’ve changed some, oh, they’ve changed so much.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like they changed all these different pieces of the chassis, but it’s like, it’s kind of ship of these years. Like I know they’re a different kind of car company,
⏹️ ▶️ John but the point is they didn’t keep up with their competition. So the Model S was unarguably the best electric
⏹️ ▶️ John vehicle ever created when it was produced. And for years it was that. And
⏹️ ▶️ John then it just didn’t keep up with everybody else. And still it was really good for a long, long time,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it just didn’t. And everyone else got better and better and it just stayed the same and
⏹️ ▶️ John got worse in ways when they got rid of the stocks and all that crap or whatever. And so like, oh, now we have
⏹️ ▶️ John to bring it to an end. Well, if you rolled out a new generation of Model S, maybe your sales would increase. But as you
⏹️ ▶️ John pointed out, there are other factors here. The main one being Elon Musk himself. So whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, also like, you know, so what, I mean, look, I owned two Model S’s and models
⏹️ ▶️ Marco S they for the time, especially they were amazing cars.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Um, but that was, you know, my first one was 2016. It was on a lease. I got another one, I guess, 2019 or whatever. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were amazing for the time. And they really did do what, what Elon
⏹️ ▶️ Marco said he was setting out to do early on, which was like advanced electric vehicles, basically like for like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make a big splash should have forced the rest of the industry to start electrifying their vehicles. They succeeded, they did
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, and that was in very large part due to the Model S. But that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was a very different time. This is a very different company now, a very different world, a very different competitive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco landscape. Elon is a very different person now compared to how he was in 2016.
⏹️ ▶️ John He successfully lobbied to get the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles eliminated, which I’m sure really helped his company. Good job.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, they would probably already passed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it with the allocations. Because it’s like once you sold a certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco number of vehicles in total as a company, yours
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John wouldn’t apply anymore. I think they
⏹️ ▶️ John were still getting it in some way. But anyway, if he cares about advancing electric vehicles, getting rid of that was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. But I mean, God knows what he cares about these days. He’s gone a very different direction.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But when the Model S came out, we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to justify EVs’ high prices somehow. And so EVs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were all like these high-end luxury cars. Like the whole reason it’s called S is he was ripping off
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Mercedes S-Class in terms of like market position. Because it’s like the battery was so expensive,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you had to make the car like a hundred grand. And so it’s like, okay, well, how do we sell a hundred grand car?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ll make it compete with the Mercedes S-Class or at least we’ll position it that way. In practice,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was, you know, a fairly inexpensive car interior on top of a very expensive car
⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery with an amazing drive train. You know, they somewhat
⏹️ ▶️ Marco succeeded with the competition. But what really set the company on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fire was, kind of two things, the Model 3,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which radically changed everything. And, you know, Elon promising all this like self-driving robo-taxi
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff that has kind of not quite really ever made it in May someday,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John possibly. We’ll get to that in a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco little bit. Yeah, we’ll get to that. Anyway, but now, EVs are, There’s so many EVs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the market now from everybody else, and they’re not only the super high-end $100,000 cars anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now they’ve come down in price, including largely Tesla’s own
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Model 3 and Model Y. And where Tesla has driven
⏹️ ▶️ Marco their product line was towards volume and towards lower prices, which they do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re very competitive in that area, like with the Model 3 and Y, compared to the rest of the market. They are very competitive.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But what they’ve done is they’ve stripped down,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve decontented their cars to bring the price lower and lower and lower.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And meanwhile, dealing with their own profitability along the way, and that’s been kind of a roller coaster. But like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first Model S that I got was fairly luxurious. It had a lot of luxury features, it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had nice, It was like the highest end Honda
⏹️ ▶️ Marco interior quality. You know, with a really amazing drivetrain that beats supercars.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it was very lopsided, but it was a very nice car. Over time, as they’ve gone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the higher volume models, the models 3 and Y, those were a lot less nice inside than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the S and X are, slash were. And then when they redid the Model S,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to add the stupid half steering wheel and other things, they kind of gave it the same treatment. They kind of decontented
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. They took a lot of stuff out. They simplified or whatever, but it made it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually feel like an even cheaper car. Over time, as Tesla has become more about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just selling the biggest volume of the cheapest EVs that they can, they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally ignored the S and the X. And maybe that’s because the market has too, I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The current Model S is not nearly as nice as the old ones. Tesla is not nearly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as nice of a car company. They’re really no longer that luxurious
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a car company and certainly Elon himself and his politics have have taken a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the damage out on the company. And so now it makes sense. Like as much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as it pains me to see that the Model S, a car I used to love a lot, is gone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or is about to be gone, I hardly ever see them on the road anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The new generation I’ve hardly seen any ever. So it does seem like nobody was buying them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It does seem like most people were just buying the Model 3 and Y. And also Tesla has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco changed as a company so much that they no longer care to even be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a luxury car maker making you know a hundred thousand dollar sedan. So it is a shame
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think that the era for that car has passed and the era for Tesla
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make that car has passed. And now other companies have made a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of really good EVs. We no longer need Tesla to address that market,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is good because they’re not going to. But now if you want a luxury electric sedan,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have lots of options now. And lots of them are very, very good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it is the end of an era, but I think that era kind of ended a while ago.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it’s a great business plan to just switch to low margin products and volume. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the reason people have diversified product lines, is you want to fleece the rich people with the low volume,
⏹️ ▶️ John high margin, fancy products, even though most of the cars you sell are the cheaper ones, right? That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a reasonable model. But yeah, sedans, nobody likes them. Car companies just stop making them entirely. The Model
⏹️ ▶️ John X should have been great for them, but they had to do the stupid Falcon wing doors. SUVs are popular. Big SUVs
⏹️ ▶️ John are popular. Big electric SUVs are popular, right? Why is the X not successful? A, they didn’t update
⏹️ ▶️ John it, and B, stupid Falcon wing doors.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, the X was also, the X was very expensive. It was always a bit of a range sacrifice compared to the S,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it is baffling to me that Tesla still doesn’t really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the most popular kind of car in America.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the Y is as close as they get, but it’s just like a small SUV.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, the Y is in the ballpark, but not that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John much. But the Y looks like
⏹️ ▶️ John an inflated three instead of the three looking like a shrunken down SUV. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re a little bit old school in that way, and which is why one of the reasons I like the S, but the X, that was just a fumble. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John their own fault. They fumbled that themselves by demanding those stupid doors. And it’s just too weird
⏹️ ▶️ John for people. And so even their entrant in a fairly popular segment, which is
⏹️ ▶️ John like expensive, big SUVs for rich people, they screwed that one up somehow too. And yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John but if you don’t update your products for a long time, it’s like not updating the Mac Pro and then complaining nobody buys it. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John there are a lot of things conspiring to be a problem with this, but like the idea that we’re only gonna sell Model 3s and
⏹️ ▶️ John just go cheaper and cheaper, Like, and don’t forget about the Roadster. Remember that? Which
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco was announced, I think I have a
⏹️ ▶️ John note in here somewhere, how long ago the Roadster was announced? I’d forgotten. Oh, I’d forgotten about it. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John we do have a note on it later, but it was eight years ago. That presumably will be a very expensive luxury car if they ever ship
⏹️ ▶️ John it as well. So I don’t know what they’re doing. We should continue with the story because there’s a few other tidbits
⏹️ ▶️ John to talk about Tesla’s future in a post-S and X world.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so their most recent earnings, this is reading from The Verge, In the quarter that ended in December 2025,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tesla reported a 3% decrease in revenue and a staggering 61% decrease in profits over
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the fourth quarter of 2024. So you want to
⏹️ ▶️ John sell more low margin products, you say? Mm-hmm.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The earnings report comes a few weeks after Tesla lost its title as the world’s best-selling EV company to China’s BYD,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which sold 2.26 million vehicles last year. Tesla reported selling about 1.6 million vehicles in 2025,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an 8.5% decrease year over year. Additionally,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from the earnings call transcript, Elon said, I really think long term, the only vehicles that we’ll make will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be autonomous vehicles, with the exception of the next generation Roadster, which we’re hoping to debut in April. Sure you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you mentioned, this was revealed in November of 2017. To be clear, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey only had one child when the Tesla Roadster was announced.
⏹️ ▶️ John You could have put a deposit down eight years ago on a car that still doesn’t exist. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mikayla did not exist in November 2017. She was still cooking. And that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when the Roadster was announced.
⏹️ ▶️ John And to be clear, they didn’t just announce it. They showed a car that looked like the Roadster driving away really fast.
⏹️ ▶️ John had something on four wheels that moved, but it was obviously not the car that they intended to sell. And I also
⏹️ ▶️ John think it is not going to be inexpensive like the Model 3 if and when they put it out.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Also, it’s hilarious to hear Elon being like, oh, everything’s gonna be autonomous, because as we’re about to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey find out, they’re not doing well in that department either. So- Any
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John day now, shocker.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Any day, it’ll be the day. Tesla’s own Robotaxi data confirms a crash rate at about three times worse than humans.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is Fred Lambert at Electric. New NHTSA, what is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right? Yeah. Crash data combined with Tesla’s new disclosure of Robotaxi mileage reveals Tesla’s autonomous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey vehicles are crashing at a rate much higher than human drivers. And that’s with a safety monitor in every car.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in Tesla’s Q4 2025 earnings report showing cumulative Robotaxi miles, the Robotaxi’s experience roughly one
⏹️ ▶️ Casey crash every 55,000 miles. For comparison, human drivers in the United States average approximately one crash
⏹️ ▶️ Casey every 500,000 miles, according to NHTSA data. Waymo has logged over 125 million autonomous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey miles and maintains a crash rate well below
⏹️ ▶️ Casey human averages. Now, it’s worth noting that not everything gets reported. So when I said a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey moment ago, human drivers do one every 500,000, that’s crashes that are reported. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so there’s a little bit of, like, thumb
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John in the wind math. Not every robo-taxi
⏹️ ▶️ John thing gets reported either.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, fair. But Fred Lambert did a little thumb in the air, thumb in the wind calculations and said,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, basically, robotaxis are three times worse than anything else. Additionally,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we’ll talk about this in a second as well, I don’t remember if it was this article or the next one we’re about to bring up, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they noted as well that whenever Tesla has a robotaxi accident, they basically redact everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Whereas Waymo’s autonomous vehicle reports will say,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Waymo is traveling at five miles an hour North on First Street and then it impacted a pedestrian or whatever the case
⏹️ ▶️ Casey may be and like has extremely detailed reports, whereas Tesla’s are hidden behind,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh, this is NDA or whatever the case, something like that, like corporate secrets, blah, blah, blah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they’re very, very shady about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Super shady. Waymo safety record reading from the New York Times in December of last
⏹️ ▶️ Casey year, Jonathan Slotkin writes, when compared with human drivers on the same roads, Waymo self-driving
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cars were involved in 91% fewer serious injury or worst crashes, and 80% fewer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey crashes causing any injury. If Waymo’s results are indicative of the broader future of autonomous vehicles, we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey may be on the path to eliminating traffic deaths as a leading cause of mortality in the United States. While many
⏹️ ▶️ Casey see this as a tech story, I view it as a public health breakthrough.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, Waymo’s approach to this is like the exact opposite of Tesla. Tesla has been promising
⏹️ ▶️ John the moon for years and years and failing to deliver and doing stupid things. And Waymo has been
⏹️ ▶️ John so incredibly cautious and careful over so many years. Everything
⏹️ ▶️ John has to be totally controlled. Roads map down to the smallest millimeter. Just roll everything out
⏹️ ▶️ John slowly. Do everything slowly and carefully because the most important thing is to not hurt people and to not
⏹️ ▶️ John be unsafe. And yes, they clog traffic in San Francisco and stop emergency vehicles and it hasn’t been all perfect,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I always get the impression that Waymo is trying as hard as they can not to screw up.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I get the opposite impression from Tesla, which is they’re trying to say, we’re here, we’ve done it, full self-driving, your
⏹️ ▶️ John car will be making money for you while you sleep. And we’ll just keep saying that for the next decade. Please give us money.
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, we’re taking LIDAR out of the cars because I think that’s a good idea, but I’m stupid.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s not shocking that like robo-taxi is like, he just wants there to be a robo-taxi and they put a human
⏹️ ▶️ John safety driver in every car and they’re still three times worse than, like, this is just,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is one of the main reasons that I will never buy a Tesla is I do not trust a company
⏹️ ▶️ John with that person at the head of it because every instinct he has and everything he wants his company to do is the opposite
⏹️ ▶️ John of what I want in a thing that I put my life into, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John understand like they have at various times been good cars and may be good cars, but like his
⏹️ ▶️ John incredible control of that company, it filters down into all levels. Like every story you hear
⏹️ ▶️ John about the terrible fact, the terrible racist factories, which in hindsight should have been a big sign about
⏹️ ▶️ John him. And like the things he makes people do in the assembly line and buying a brand new car and finding parts of it held together
⏹️ ▶️ John with zip ties and the removing LIDAR and saying cameras are good enough and promising self-driving. And it’s just like,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t wanna be anywhere near that with my life or anyone else’s life. And then Waymo,
⏹️ ▶️ John like I’m not sure what their path to success is, but everything I read about them is like, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John always doing a little bit better than they did before. And they’re trying to be as safe as possible. And I’m glad to hear that their
⏹️ ▶️ John stats show that they are actually exceeding human safety in the scenarios
⏹️ ▶️ John where they choose to drive, which again are still very limited, but like that’s appropriate. Like that they’re not saying,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll drive, drive your, this car will drive you across country while you sleep. Like Waymo doesn’t say that
⏹️ ▶️ John because they can’t do that. And they’re being careful and I hate Elon Musk.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will fight you for which one of us hates him more.