604: Minimized Embiggening
12 Sep 2024The September 2024 Apple event, with the Apple Watch Series 10, iPhone 16 and 16 Pro, AirPods 4, and These AirPods.
Episode Description:
- Join us in raising money for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital
- Apple September 2024 Event
- Quinn’s video on Apple’s new OLED
- Underscore’s Apple Watch size comparison
- AirPods 4’s hidden capacitive button
- Camera Control overview
- Qi 2 [and more!] MagSafe
- Dr. Drang’s titanium grades
- iPhone 16 Pro gets JPEG-XL
- Della Huff on Instagram
- All models get 8GB RAM
- mmWave lives on!
- Everyone gets SIMs but America
- All iPhones 16 support Wi-Fi 7
- iPhones 16 Pro are feature-identical
- Software release dates
- Post-show: Marco’s 🪿 after-action report
- Members-only ATP Overtime: iPhone 16 Case Conundrum
Sponsored by:
- Tailscale: A secure network that just works.
Become a member for ATP Overtime, ad-free episodes, member specials, and our early-release, unedited “bootleg” feed!
Chapters
- Donate to St. Jude
- Event impressions
- Apple Watch
- AirPods
- Sponsor: Tailscale
- iPhone
- Ending theme
- Goose & PHEVs
Donate to St. Jude
⏹️ ▶️ Marco John is still coughing. That’s remarkable. Maybe. I mean, it’s not a particularly good start to a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco show, but John is indeed still coughing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know what it’s september, which means it’s childhood cancer awareness month, which means we got to talk about st
⏹️ ▶️ Casey jude children’s research hospital and we don’t just have to talk about it. We want to talk about it because hey,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here’s the thing for the fifth year in a row relay is coming together as with atp,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey although I mean there’s perhaps a distinction without a difference? Is that the turn of phrase I’m looking for? Anyway, we’re all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey coming together to raise money for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. Since 2019, the community has raised over $2.2
⏹️ ▶️ Casey million and actually, oh, breaking news, do-do-do-do-do-do-do, oh, it’s actually over $3 million,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is incredible. $3 million in the last five years. That’s so incredibly cool. And that’s thanks in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no small part to all of you. So, hey, here’s the thing. What’s St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital? Well, guess
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what? They are a hospital that does research, but they also treat kids. And St. Jude is really incredible
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because they don’t charge their patient families for anything. You know, the idea is,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re in a position where your child is fighting for their lives, then the last thing you need to worry about is, hey, how am
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I going to fund that fight? And so it is an opportunity for all of us,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of you that are listening and the three of us, to be a hero for someone. And you can be a hero
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for five bucks. You can be a hero by sending five bucks to St. Jude at stjude.org.atp
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that can make you a hero for somebody. That five bucks can buy something for somebody, be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that treatment, be that some healthy thing to eat or whatever the case may be,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it makes a difference. So the other great thing about St. Jude is that they try to do the best they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can to make a good time, as good a time as they can for their patients and their families.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So St. Jude has actually got their own school, the St. Jude Imagine Academy, which is apparently sponsored
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by Chili’s. It’s their own school that spans from preschool through 12th grade for patients who will be at St.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jude for upwards of six weeks. And the staff has trainers trained in English language learner
⏹️ ▶️ Casey instruction, visual impairment instruction services, a librarian, a STEM coordinator. They even have reading dogs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey who visit to read with the kids. I don’t know how that works, but it sounds awesome. I mean- Wait, reading?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Maybe they do. St. Jude has some really advanced medical practices. You never know. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do amazing work there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do. So hey, the Academy helps patients keep up with their schoolwork back home while they’re undergoing treatment, but also gives
⏹️ ▶️ Casey patients what they need at whatever they need at that moment. And you know what, if a patient isn’t feeling great,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey then maybe they don’t want to do math that day or whatever the case may be. And maybe the teachers will say, all right, we’ll skip
⏹️ ▶️ Casey math for today and we’ll do something different. Or maybe we’ll do math in a different way. We’ll play Uno or something like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so they have kindergarten and high school graduation ceremonies. And if you want to see what those look like, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can actually go to a web search for St. Jude High School graduation for a video of this year’s graduating class, which is super cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So hey, you know, not only all that is amazing, but we’re spending
⏹️ ▶️ Casey literally the entire episode talking about rampant consumerism. And Marco has come up with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the patented and trademarked and copyrighted Marco Offset
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to help offset our rampant consumerism. So Marco, can you describe the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Offset, please?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I sure can. It is not patented or copyrighted or trademarked. I think the only thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it possibly could be is trademarked, but because I’m not going to, I don’t believe in patents and copyright doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apply here, but I’m not going to even get it, not even a trademarking because it is an idea that I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think should spread and I don’t need to have my name be the only name ever attached to it because here’s what you do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You take your rampant consumerism that you are about to use or have already used to place
⏹️ ▶️ Marco orders for all these new tech products that have just come out or are about to come out, and you look at the base
⏹️ ▶️ Marco price of those products. So the new iPhone, say it’s $999. Is that the price? I don’t even remember.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think that’s right. For the Pro, yes, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s right. So iPhone Pro, $999. So what you do is you say, all right, well, I got an iPhone Pro, I got the bigger storage option,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got the AppleCare, I got a case, I got to pay sales tax. Whatever additional
⏹️ ▶️ Marco money you’re paying out the door above that $999 base price of the actual product, say it’s a couple hundred
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks, that becomes your suggested minimum donation to St. Jude because that’s like the add-on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco money that you are kind of just tossing on at the end there. The theory is you can probably afford
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like that if you’re fortunate enough to be buying this kind of gear in the first place most of the time. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that’s you, if you can afford it, that is my suggested minimum donation is that incremental
⏹️ ▶️ Marco offset above the base price of the product or products that you are buying. If you truly can’t afford it,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s cool. We understand. Donate a dollar if you can afford that. Any amount helps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if you can afford more, we encourage it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. And speaking of affording more, we have some more breaking updates. Victor Lung
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has decided to one-up Even Packet Collision with a $10,001 donation. We’re playing Price
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is Right rules right now, which is excellent. I put Victor’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey stickers in the mail just a couple hours ago. And then Guillaume Morin, I hope I got that right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I butchered it last year. So hopefully I’m making progress in a good way. They donated $13,141.59. I have no earthly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey idea what the significance is of the 314159 as soon as I said it out loud,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I got it. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey see, that’s movie magic right there. You got there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway, we got there a little later, but better late than never. So yeah, so thank you so much to them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been in communications with Guillaume and they said, no, I’m good on stickers because you sent a bunch last
⏹️ ▶️ Casey year, so thank you. And then just briefly, there have been two anonymous donations, each
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with, this is not a joke, $100,000 each.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, that is phenomenal. And almost no one has the kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of money to be able to donate that incredible amount, let alone two almost nobodies, but here we are.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just to be clear, though, John pointed out that we should talk or make clear that Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if they are interested in stickers, please reach out. That does not mean that you have to donate $100,001 to get a sticker.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The, the, the, uh, the limbo bar, if you will, is currently at 1,000, three, one, 13,000.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can talk $13,141 and 60 cents. That
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is your bare minimum for stickers at this time. So all that being said, all of that is a tremendous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey amount of money. If you can just give five bucks, give five bucks. It really does help. I know it probably doesn’t sound like it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when we’re talking about $13,000, but truly, even five bucks helps, please go to stjude.org slash
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E dot org slash ATP, and send a few bucks their
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way. They really do deserve it. And I’m actually going to St. Jude next week in order
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to participate in the podcast-a-thon, which we will talk about on next week’s show. All right,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey gentlemen, the rules for rules of engagement for this are no follow up
Event impressions
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we are going to dive straight into the September 24, 2024 Apple event. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as always, I’m going to start to go chronologically and we will immediately get sidetracked and go
⏹️ ▶️ Casey somewhere different. But we’re going to start by saying there was a really good and really cute, very accessibility heavy introduction
⏹️ ▶️ Casey video, which I liked, I thought it was very good. Then Tim spoke briefly about Apple intelligence. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey then we dove right into Apple Watch Series 10 with Jeff Williams. And it’s got a new, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right, here’s the thing. Let me stop myself. I told myself I was going to ask
⏹️ ▶️ Casey each of you for opening statements, and I didn’t ask you nor myself for an opening statement. I would like to interrupt myself and give an opening
⏹️ ▶️ Casey statement. I didn’t know what to make of this event because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I felt like it was twice as long as it should have been. Nothing really knocked my socks
⏹️ ▶️ Casey off, and I just left it saying, huh. But immediately I thought to myself,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that doesn’t make for a fun podcast to listen to. So I’m going to do my darnedest to try
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to look at the positive side of things because me just sitting here moaning about not being impressed by
⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything is not very fun. And there were some impressive things in here. But I definitely felt like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this one dragged on in a way that Apple events almost never do save game demos. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just wasn’t like, yes, by the end of it, which is very unusual for me. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s start with Marco and then John. If you have an opening statement, forgive me for almost railroading all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of us. Do you have an opening statement, Marco?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco In terms of, you know, we’ll get into each of the products individually. I think overall,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this event focused a lot more on software capabilities than hardware capabilities.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make for, you know, a different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tone of the event compared to, I think, what a lot of people expect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or hope from an iPhone slash Apple Watch, whatever launch event.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The phones, you know, the reality is this is the, what, 18th iPhone or something? Like there have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been so many iPhones, it is such a mature product. The annual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco incremental updates are not that big anymore, you know, in terms of like interesting,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco showy new features or hardware changes. Like it’s not that much every year,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s incremental in the hardware. What we tend to see though is interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff in kind of, you know, software capabilities, hacking services, things like that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this year, the story is obviously all about AI-based features,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Apple Intelligence in particular is what Apple is trying to push. And it’s not just them, obviously, the whole
⏹️ ▶️ Marco industry is pushing it right now, with a lot of good reason. You know, there is a lot of excitement there and a lot of advancement
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. But what Apple is doing here is communicating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the world, look at us, we have AI too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to most of us who watch Apple very closely, we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know the asterisks on that. Like number one, we know that it’s not really out yet
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and even when it quote comes out in a month it’ll be in beta
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and limited and only a subset of the features. We know all those asterisks. We also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know almost that entire story because they showed it all to us in June.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the iPhone event is for the entire world. It’s for world media.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s for people who don’t care about anything else all year from Apple except the iPhone and the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco event. It’s for mainstream people to hear about this stuff. And it also serves as a,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, even for people who pay attention to the WWDC keynote, it’s kind of a reminder like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hey, remember that thing we showed you three months ago? Well, now it’s about to come out.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s kind of a way to like refresh the excitement, even for people who pay attention back then. So in a large way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this event is not incredibly targeted at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who follow Apple regularly like us. It is really a very mainstream event and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s made to promote the new iPhone to the world and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually in the iPhone event what we see largely is trying to associate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new software features of that of the iOS update for that year with the new hardware
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get people excited about the new hardware even though many of those things are software features that aren’t necessarily exclusive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the new hardware. So overall like I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see why people were a little bit meh about the announcements of this event.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually to me you know so the event went Apple Watch then AirPods
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then phones. And I think that’s also the order of how interesting they are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in descending order though. Like I think the the Apple Watch to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me I think had possibly the the most substantial update and then I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think the AirPods were in the middle and maybe the phone is the least substantial. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall though like the story here is really about Apple intelligence and software
⏹️ ▶️ Marco features and the hardware is is very incremental on the phone. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would say it’s more than incremental on the watch, but on the phone, it’s pretty incremental. So we’ll get to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco those details, but I am fine with how this went. I wish the phone would have been a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more new, and I actually even considered skipping the phone this year,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it should be the first time ever, honestly. So I see why people are a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco little disappointed by that.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I have a little bit different perspective on this event this year for whatever reason.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, maybe I’ve been like this for years and I would have the same stance no matter what
⏹️ ▶️ John happened, but like, let me give you some framing here. As people who listen to this
⏹️ ▶️ John show know, I like desktop Macs with big GPUs in them.
⏹️ ▶️ John I like sedans with stick shifts, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Neither one of those things are particularly popular in fashion and they haven’t been
⏹️ ▶️ John for a long time. Macs, Mac desktops with big GPUs that is, not, you know, regular
⏹️ ▶️ John personal computer desktops. And so why do I see an event like this? I can understand why some people won’t
⏹️ ▶️ John be like, ho-hum, whatever, especially if you, you know, repetition of stuff that we already know because we
⏹️ ▶️ John write WWDC and everything. But the way I look at it is every
⏹️ ▶️ John single year Apple comes out with a new phone and they They try to make it better than the
⏹️ ▶️ John previous phone in a bunch of interesting ways.
⏹️ ▶️ John They try to learn from mistakes from past phones. They try out new ideas and then if those ideas don’t work they try
⏹️ ▶️ John something else a few years later. They try to improve on it in every possible way. Can we make it more
⏹️ ▶️ John water resistant? Can we make the battery life better? Can we make it lighter? Can we make it a little bit bigger? Maybe we should make a smaller
⏹️ ▶️ John one? Like every year they are working on that product.
⏹️ ▶️ John And this year is no different. they did. I think this is actually a fairly significant year for
⏹️ ▶️ John the hardware itself, just looking at it, that it has, it has at least one very big different thing than
⏹️ ▶️ John it had before. And they changed all the other stuff. And I would say as someone who is out there
⏹️ ▶️ John not being catered to by the people who are making new automobiles or new desktop
⏹️ ▶️ John Macs, right, that you should appreciate the fact that every single year, the product
⏹️ ▶️ John you want and that we all like to use is getting better, that we don’t, we’re not out there they’re going, gee, I wonder
⏹️ ▶️ John if they’ll ever update the product that I care about. Right, will they ever make another one of those? If they do make another one of those,
⏹️ ▶️ John will they make it worse or will they make it better? Every single year, Apple A, puts out an iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s usually pretty good, and B, tries to make it better than the last one and usually succeeds in some small way. And that
⏹️ ▶️ John may seem boring until you are a devoted customer
⏹️ ▶️ John of a product that isn’t getting that kind of attention. Like say, stick to four-door sedans with enough
⏹️ ▶️ John headroom for me, right? And you would kill for them to every year just make
⏹️ ▶️ John a better version of that or try a different idea, right? And you look back and you don’t appreciate it. Remember every year
⏹️ ▶️ John they’d come up with a new Honda Accord and I would either like it or I would not like it. And maybe the styling would be to my taste or not
⏹️ ▶️ John taste, but I say, well, if I don’t like this generation, wait till next year, there’ll be another one, they get another crack at it or whatever. And
⏹️ ▶️ John then that stopped happening. And suddenly all those years where it’s like, oh, it’s just another Accord, all they did, it’s like the same as the previous
⏹️ ▶️ John Accord, but they changed it a little bit. Oh, it’s got different headlights, who cares, right? You will come to appreciate that if
⏹️ ▶️ John someday Apple moves on from the phone and is just too busy selling, I don’t know,
⏹️ ▶️ John the successor to the Vision Pro or something like that. And I know it’s kind of silly, because it’s like, well, it’s the smartphone,
⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s the most popular consumer product in the history of the planet, right? It’s not like it’s going to go away or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. But another way to look at it, another perspective, not saying people’s opinions on it are wrong or their feelings on
⏹️ ▶️ John it are wrong, but another perspective is, hey, if you’re interested in phones at all, isn’t it kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John nice that they keep making new ones that are a little bit better, especially if like me, you don’t get a new one every single year,
⏹️ ▶️ John so that you can just kind of wait and see. It’s like, oh, do you like this phone? Does it appeal to you? Do you not like the colors? Do you want to wait and see
⏹️ ▶️ John on that whole capture button thing or whatever? Wait till next year. You know what, next year, there’s gonna be another thing
⏹️ ▶️ John that is a smartphone that’s called an iPhone that caters to people who like iPhones,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they’ll try something different with that one. And then again, and then again, and then again. And I just want to sit here and appreciate that
⏹️ ▶️ John because that isn’t always the case. And it happens that I do like phones, and I do appreciate the fact
⏹️ ▶️ John that they make a new one every year. And by the way, this is my year to get a new phone. So I was excited by the fact that
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re gonna make a new phone for me to buy and I’m gonna have a new shiny thing and it
⏹️ ▶️ John will be an upgrade over my iPhone 14 because I’ve waited two years. So yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t like, that’s why I come away from these events. Like I don’t expect to be blown away. I don’t expect
⏹️ ▶️ John to be like the Vision Pro intro. I just wanted to see, and honestly, like listen to past episodes. We
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco everything that was
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be in this thing. It’s like, it’s not even surprises, but it’s like, but yeah, but now you get to actually buy them. Now you actually
⏹️ ▶️ John get to see how Apple presents them, see all their nice product photographer on their website
⏹️ ▶️ John and hear all this stuff about it or whatever. The final thing I’ll say is that I agree with the people who said
⏹️ ▶️ John this presentation was weird and that Apple decided to try something different this year and really, really, really shy
⏹️ ▶️ John away from talking about anything that has a number associated with it. Not entirely, like
⏹️ ▶️ John they did talk about, oh, the CPU is X percent faster, and we’ll talk about it when we get to the individual products, Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John they normally are more spec heavy than they have been. And it’s not because they had anything to hide or there’s anything shameful. They
⏹️ ▶️ John were just like, I remember when the watch section was done and we were wondering, so are there two sizes
⏹️ ▶️ John or one? Like, it’s not a secret, they’re not hiding it. And it’s not like, oh, we don’t wanna be too techy. Don’t tell
⏹️ ▶️ John them there are two sizes. There was a distinct lack of detail.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I don’t know if that’s good or bad. It was just weird for us because we’re making a show where we’re gonna tell
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey all the technical
⏹️ ▶️ John details. So we have to look them up and it’s like, couldn’t you just told us right? But it’s an interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John strategy. As Margo said, as the event, the one event that most people in the world watch,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is Apple’s opportunity to talk to the whole world. And maybe they just thought they were boring people with a bunch of stuff that’s interesting to us,
⏹️ ▶️ John but not relevant to them. Even even the fact that there are two Apple Watch Series 10
⏹️ ▶️ John sizes, like people don’t care about that. Let’s go in the store, you’ll see there’s two of them, they’ll pick the one they want. It’s not important enough to even include
⏹️ ▶️ John in the presentation. I thought that was weird. I don’t like it personally, but maybe it turns
⏹️ ▶️ John out to be the best way to communicate to the rest of the world. Thank you.
Apple Watch
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so we saw that accessibility and other intro video. We saw Tim talking about Apple intelligence and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we get to Jeff Williams and the new Apple watch series 10 design. And I am
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a every two year plan for watches. This is my year. We talked about this in the last couple of episodes and going into this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey event, I thought I was going to get an, a, an ultra three and we’re going to talk a little bit more about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, but, um, I watched the, the unveiling of the brand new design
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the Apple Watch Series 10 that looked like a thinner version of the existing Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John The Apple Watch really makes the 9-11 look radical from generation to generation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Well, and once again, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rumor mill about watch redesigns, it once again proves to be mostly wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, but they got this one right. Everyone said that the 10 was not going to be a big redesign. It was going to look
⏹️ ▶️ John like the existing series.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but only recently, like only a couple months ago, they were saying it was going to have a whole new band attachment mechanism with magnetic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bands and like all these they’re gonna change the size
⏹️ ▶️ John more yeah that was that was more like more than more than six months ago like that the rumor solidified
⏹️ ▶️ John about halfway through the year that this is what we were gonna be getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco although the rumors also said that both sizes would be getting substantially bigger and that’s also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not true but both sizes did get
⏹️ ▶️ John bigger just not substantially
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah by like one millimeter like that’s that’s not like you know they were saying they were gonna get rid of the small
⏹️ ▶️ Marco size like it it turns out that the Watch Rumor Mill is, I think, the least reliable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco part of the Apple product Rumor Mill. And that continued, the pattern continued into this year as
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it was pretty good because, you know, within several months of the event, we knew it wasn’t gonna be Radical Rezign. We knew
⏹️ ▶️ John they would have bigger screens that went farther to the edge. And we knew they’d be bigger than their predecessors. Yes, they got the details and the magnitude
⏹️ ▶️ John wrong, but we knew all of that. So when you’re waiting for the see this, here’s the all new design, like, wait a second, did
⏹️ ▶️ John they get it wrong? And then they started showing the new design, like, no, they got it right. It just looks the same as the other ones.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So yeah, so it’s basically the same as the other ones, but thinner. And as much as I’m kind of grumbling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and snarking, genuinely thinner sounds great to me because the current
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Watch is a little bit chonky. And I love the idea of having something thinner, which flies
⏹️ ▶️ Casey directly in the face of the whole intention of getting an Apple Watch Ultra 3
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that thing is chonkier still. But in any case, it is thinner, it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a little bit bigger. It’s 30% bigger than the Series 6. And they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said at one point that you can even see an additional line of text and messages and news of all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things, which I was like, sure, guys, whatever. Has a slightly wider aspect ratio. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey then they explained that it’s the first ever wide angle OLED that Apple, at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey least, is releasing. And it’s 40% brighter when viewed at an angle. And this is one of those things,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to try to look on the bright side, hey, that’s a good pun, to look on the bright side. This is one of those things that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think is Apple at its finest where they take a thing that is Not great, but not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an actual like paper cut and just make it better because yeah All facts this viewing of the current
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple watch is not stellar But it’s never been to the point that I was like, oh this sucks But I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell you what, I’m pretty excited that I my next Apple watch because guess what? It’s not gonna be an ultra 3
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that my next Apple watch is gonna be 40% brighter when viewed an angle I’m here for that and that’s pretty great
⏹️ ▶️ John So screen tech wise obviously we’ve had the rumors for years that Apple was trying to make micro
⏹️ ▶️ John LED micro OLED Displays for the watch which is instead of having the organic
⏹️ ▶️ John Light emitting diode type things. It’s more like individual light up LEDs
⏹️ ▶️ John in there anyway It’s very difficult to do that We thought hey you’re gonna if you’re gonna do this weird screen
⏹️ ▶️ John technology start with a really small screen like the watch Apple was developing this technology itself with like
⏹️ ▶️ John funding research into this display technology itself. And then a year or two ago, Apple said,
⏹️ ▶️ John nevermind, we’re not doing that anymore. They came up with nothing. They stopped that
⏹️ ▶️ John pursuit. They said we were unsuccessful. And then after that, all the rumors for the watch switch and said, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not going to be a micro OLED anymore. It’s going to be plain old OLED. And that’s, of course, what we got
⏹️ ▶️ John now. So So what is it about this OLED that gives the better viewing angle? Apple didn’t say,
⏹️ ▶️ John but the only technologies that I’m aware of that can give you a wider viewing angle on OLED are either
⏹️ ▶️ John QD OLED, which we talked about ages ago when we were talking about televisions, which is you don’t have a white sub-pixel, you don’t have a polarizing
⏹️ ▶️ John layer, the color is closer to the surface of the screen, and the viewing angles are better. It’s why the viewing angle
⏹️ ▶️ John of a QD OLED television is better than an OLED one. You get less color shift, you get better brightness, yada yada, right? The other
⏹️ ▶️ John technology, which is the most likely one, is micro lens arrays, which is what LG uses because
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t have QD OLEDs, which is you put a bunch of little tiny lenses
⏹️ ▶️ John on top of your existing regular WRGB OLED, and that increases the viewing angle.
⏹️ ▶️ John And when I say a bunch of lenses, I mean a bunch of lenses, as in each individual
⏹️ ▶️ John pixel, like sub-pixel, the red, green, and blue sub-pixels, have hundreds of lenses
⏹️ ▶️ John in front of them. When we say micro lens array, We mean micro lens. We don’t need one lens
⏹️ ▶️ John for each pixel, one light to treat sub-pixel, hundreds for each sub-pixel. And this technology is what LG uses
⏹️ ▶️ John on their high-end televisions and has for a couple of years now. And guess what? It increases the viewing angle because
⏹️ ▶️ John the light that’s coming out of the pixels and going through all the polarizers or whatever hits those, that micro lens array and shoots off in all sorts of directions
⏹️ ▶️ John instead of just mostly going straight. And I think LG might be the
⏹️ ▶️ John supplier for these things. Anyway, as soon as someone gets one of these watches, someone who’s a display technology expert we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John put it under one of those little microscope magnifier things. You can tell when you have an MLA OLED. You
⏹️ ▶️ John can actually see the little micro lenses when you zoom in on one pixel. And if so, that will be
⏹️ ▶️ John super interesting, because the only places I’ve heard of micro lens arrays being used are on television
⏹️ ▶️ John sets. And so now they’re going to be used on your TV, and also on the tiniest screen you own. On your wrist.
⏹️ ▶️ John The one on your watch. And the great thing about MLA is it’s essentially a passive technology. You just put those lenses
⏹️ ▶️ John on there, and you get more brightness and better viewing angles for the same power output. So again, ideal
⏹️ ▶️ John for the watch. Not as cool as micro OLED, but you know, that didn’t work out. So if
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re waiting for micro OLED, we’re gonna be waiting a while longer.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For what it’s worth, Quinn Nelson did a really good video on his reactions to the Apple of Head
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and spent a not insignificant amount of time on this and specifically theorized the exact
⏹️ ▶️ Casey same thing that you’re saying, John. Did
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have it confirmed or no? No, I don’t believe it was confirmed. I think it was all suspicion, but like you’re saying, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you two landed on the same conclusion, which is that this is LG tech. I believe Quinn said that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s LG that’s providing the displays for the Apple Watch. I can’t tell you if that’s right or wrong, but I’m inclined to believe Quinn.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so anyways, he was theorizing that it’s, that because LG is using
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on their TVs, it’s probably the same basic technology here on the Apple Watch.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and by the way, the MLA, like as I described, it’s a pretty good technology if you
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t do QD OLED, you know, just adding one more layer to your display, it makes them much better.
⏹️ ▶️ John So when Apple eventually gets OLEDs into their MacBook Pros or whatever, I know they’re doing the tandem OLEDs on the
⏹️ ▶️ John M4 iPad Pro and everything, but I do wonder if we might see some MLA
⏹️ ▶️ John tech coming to MacBooks in 2026 or 2027. In
⏹️ ▶️ Casey any case, so yeah, we’ve got this better screen. The cases are up to 10% less weight.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s 10% thinner than the Series 9. And then I believe it was Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey got a wish that you had been looking for. It is polished titanium that replaces stainless
⏹️ ▶️ Casey steel. Because Marco, you were a big fan of the titanium watch in the past, right? Or am I making this up?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was, no, this is like, if like my wishlist for this Apple watch included,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco please bring back titanium. Now the way they did it was not quite what I was imagining, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will happily take it. So what they’ve done is they’ve replaced stainless steel
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with titanium that has a polished finish, not a brush finish. So the old one had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a brush finish that would form like, you know, linear reflections, it was like brushed in like in a line.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This one appears to be just polished the same way that the stainless steel has been polished. So it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a shiny, you know, chrome like look on the outside. I actually prefer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the old one. I think I haven’t seen this one in person yet. I prefer the look of the old one, I think, but the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco main advantage of titanium, as we see in the phones, is it’s much lighter than stainless steel for the same
⏹️ ▶️ Marco type of product. So this gets it a lot closer to the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wonderful lightness of the aluminum models than it used to be. Again, I think I would prefer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a more like, you know, brushed kind of finish, but hey, I’ll take this. This is good. And this is also like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve also added a bunch of new colors as part of their new kind of metals refresh
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here. On the aluminum side, they added a jet black, which looks a lot like the iPhone 7
⏹️ ▶️ Marco jet black, according to pictures I’ve seen. Again, I haven’t seen any of these in person yet, so we’ll see how they look
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in person. But that’s interesting, to have a shiny jet black in the aluminum side
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the very first time. Because in the past, you’d have to go to steel to get shiny black. So that should be really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool. Rose gold and silver there in the aluminum. And then the titanium, they have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an interesting color set in titanium. They have gold, cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Slate, which is basically space gray. Because they’ve been making space grays since the beginning of time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they’ve been in many different grays, but it’s basically very dark gray. Then they have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco natural titanium in most of the models, but then the Hermes model
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a exclusive silver color. Now, I am very curious
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see those two in person because how different is natural from silver? Is natural
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just a little shade darker maybe? Like, that’s what I would expect because I think that is the quote,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco natural color of titanium. So we’ll see what that means in practice,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but either way, I am very happy to see Titanium
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is back in the regular series Apple Watch. That is great news to me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have already ordered one in Titanium and I’m looking forward to getting it for many reasons.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But that alone, just bringing back Titanium is a big deal.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, there were a couple other things about the display before we leave that, that I thought were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco interesting. So of course, as John mentioned, the wide angle viewing angle, I think that actually will matter a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the watch. But also the display now updates once a second
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it’s in like the always on sleeping mode. It used to be once a minute. So now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s once a second. So now they’ve actually updated a lot of the watch faces to have like a ticking seconds hand,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like quartz watches do, which is interesting. And they have a couple of new designs like they showed off, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that should overall make the sleep mode like a little bit nicer. That’s kind of the theme
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this display update is the wider angle makes it a little bit nicer. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco once every second updating, a little bit nicer. The slightly bigger screen, a little bit nicer.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like all those things just make the watch a little bit nicer. And so I think this is actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a substantial update to the watch. Even the like 10% thinner,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is something that you will see and feel more than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you might think from just, you know, hearing the number 10%, it doesn’t seem like it’s that big of a deal,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you notice with that kind of stuff. Also, they all weigh less than the outgoing models.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that, you know, you also will notice that. I believe they said aluminum is about 10% weight loss
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and titanium is 20% less than the steel it’s replacing. So those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are substantial savings. Again, like last year we were, and we’ll get to this, but last year we were all very happy about a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco roughly 10% weight reduction on the iPhone. I think it was even less than that, but like, you know, you notice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. And so on the watch, like, I think we will notice these changes. These will be very,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, very nice to have. And that’s kind of the theme of most of the Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Watch update, the series nine to 10 update at least. Most of the update seems to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty nice sized collection of reasonably minor individual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that I think will all add up to a very nice overall update to the watch. One other
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing I wanted to call out, because I don’t think you have it on your list here. Oh, you do, nevermind, you have a bullet later.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can now play music and podcasts directly through the speaker on the watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am really genuinely very excited for this. I don’t think this is something I will find myself doing often,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but there’s definitely been a handful of times that I’ve wanted to do this, and I’ve been irrationally grumbly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about the fact that I couldn’t. So this is very exciting for me.
⏹️ ▶️ John Do you hate your battery, Casey?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, well, apparently I do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, and to be clear, this will destroy, it destroys the battery on the phone. Playing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out the built-in speaker for sustained amounts of time is a substantial battery cost.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So don’t buy this expecting to do this on a regular basis, but it is nice that you can do it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sometimes instead of having to pair AirPods to it just to hear if you or just trying to listen to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a podcast as you walk around or something. So that’s nice. That’s a pretty substantial
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fix. Also, other things about it, like they have a, quote, larger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and more efficient charging coil, and it makes it the fastest charging Apple Watch ever. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also very interesting. Again, as people move more into using these as sleep devices that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re wearing most of the day, charging speed matters a lot. So that’s also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great thing. So this all sounds really good so far.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was very excited to get this update to the watch. Even the Series 10
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also gets the water depth gauge and the water temperature sensor,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which were previously exclusive to the Ultra, which I think means that the Ultra,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the only significant sensor difference that the Ultra has over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Series 10 now is the Ultra has the dual frequency GPS and Series 10
⏹️ ▶️ Marco forgot about that. As far as I can think, I don’t think there’s many other gains the Ultra
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has now besides like the more rugged physical design. But, you know, so if you were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting the Ultra for a lot of reasons people were getting the Ultra before, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they can now get a Series 10 and be very happy with it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so before the event, did you think that you were in the market for a watch
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at this event, did you expect to be buying one?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wasn’t sure. I mean, you know, most of the Apple Watch updates are very minor. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at the Series 9 compared to the Series 6, say, or the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Series 5, like, it’s substantially better. If you compare, you know, very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much like I was saying with the iPhone earlier, about the iPhone being largely incremental every year, if you compare the Apple Watch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this year, like the Series 9 compared to the Series 8, is not a significant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco update. Like at all. If you replace my Series 9 with a Series 8,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if I would ever notice the difference until I tried to double tap and realized it was even less reliable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than usual. But, you know, that would be a hard thing to notice.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Whereas if you replaced, you know, a Series 7 with a Series 10,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you will notice the difference immediately and vice versa. If you replace it in the other direction, you will definitely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice that difference. So they do make big changes over time. this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger than I expected. Besides, the only thing that would be bigger than this would be a major physical
⏹️ ▶️ Marco redesign, which I think this is a moderate physical redesign. It’s not nothing, it’s not everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m actually glad I can still use all my bands. And in fact, they even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tweet some of the bands. So of course you have the standard
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new colors for the silicone bands and stuff, and new colors for all the bands that have colors.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they even have new finishes for the steel bands.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So now this is a little tricky. It kind, you could be forgiven for assuming
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the new standard series Milanese loop and link bracelet are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now made of titanium. They’re not. Those are still made of steel, but they are made to match the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco titanium colors of the Series 10 watch. So they’re now made in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slate gold and I guess natural, most of them. So if you get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Series 10 watch and you want the Milanese loop or the Apple link bracelet,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco both of which are great bands in different ways, you can get those now that match the titanium finishes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the Series 10, which is nice. And then the Ultra didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get a new watch at all, but it did get new color, a new black color finally,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it has a bunch of cool new bands there as well, including its own Milanese
⏹️ ▶️ Marco loop with that cool big latch thing. I’m actually really curious to see that in person. I think that actually might be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a fun band to have on the regular Series 9, but it might be a little too chunky. We’ll see. Series 10, I mean.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, it looks like overall, like this is actually a really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big update for the Series. The Series line of watches, it’s a really big update for the bands,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s not an update for the Ultra or the SE, But I mean, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty good update. I will say though, not updating the Ultra
⏹️ ▶️ Marco only two years into it is surprising to me because as far as I can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tell, just like from looking around the world and hearing people who like Apple products, it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems like it’s pretty popular. Like I see a lot of Ultras out in the world, a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like on non-nerds and on people who I know not doing ultra sports or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultra activities. They’re not even living an ultra lifestyle. They’re just people who like the way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks or who want the battery life or whatever. The Ultra is very popular, it seems.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it is kind of odd not to update it to the new S10
⏹️ ▶️ Marco SIP and some of the new features that the Series 10 has. It is kind of weird. I wonder
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the story there is. Is it kind of like the Mac Pro and Mac Studio
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where they’re like, we can skip a generation. We don’t sell that many of these. Like I don’t know. It’s again, I see a lot of them out there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So who knows? I don’t know what happened there. We’ll see kind of, you know, going on, like we’ll see what kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of update cycle the Ultra gets. But it’s it is
⏹️ ▶️ John so soon. The S10 is another place where the lack of numbers kind of hurt us because they’re like,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, it’s got an S10, blah, blah, blah. they said a bunch of stuff about it, but it’s like, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John so is this the S9 rebadged? Is this actually a new thing? I think the S9 had a shrink,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I think the S9 went to like 4 nanometers, is the S10 3 nanometers? Like, they didn’t really
⏹️ ▶️ John talk about it in enough of a way to say whether this is going to be significant. And it’s a factor because
⏹️ ▶️ John what you’re really wondering is like, what are they done with battery life? Like, does the Series 10, does the big
⏹️ ▶️ John Series 10 have ultra-like battery life? I doubt it, it’s so much thinner, it probably doesn’t. But
⏹️ ▶️ John then again, Again, the Ultra doesn’t have an S10 in it, so maybe the S10 sips more power. And you know, so then Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ John claims about the battery life, I think we’re not radically different than the Series 9. So we’ll see,
⏹️ ▶️ John but like Apple tends not to say much if anything about the
⏹️ ▶️ John little processors in their watches to the point where as we’ve pointed out in a couple of past years, they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John incremented the number without actually really changing the chip in any significant way.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I can’t really tell if that happened this year, but that’s what people really care about with these things. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s the physical appearance and Marco covered all that stuff. And I think it actually is better this year. I personally like
⏹️ ▶️ John shinier, better than matte finish and hey, they’re all shiny now. And assuming the finishes are durable, that’s great.
⏹️ ▶️ John But aside from that, you know, they’re all one millimeter bigger than they were before. They’re shiny,
⏹️ ▶️ John they look nice. The screen goes closer to the edge and also has the battery life, right? That’s what people care about. Is it comfortable?
⏹️ ▶️ John Does it look nice? Is it fashionable? And does it last all day? And I’m assuming this will strike
⏹️ ▶️ John as good a balance as the 9 did, maybe even better. But the fact that Apple didn’t really brag about
⏹️ ▶️ John it, like, this is gonna last you so much longer than the Series 9, I feel like they’re just probably
⏹️ ▶️ John like maintaining. And it’s probably good enough, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like the Ultra where, I think that’s one of the reasons why you see a lot of people who have the Ultra, they hear from their friends
⏹️ ▶️ John who got one, this is so much unlike the non-Ultra watch, because if
⏹️ ▶️ John I miss charging it for a day, it’s not the end of the world, And that is not something that happens with any of the regular watches.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nope. So we’ll we’ll we’ll see all right And you know and obviously that’s a a side effect of it being
⏹️ ▶️ John chunkier Hey, there’s room for a bigger battery, but they went the opposite direction this one They made it thinner so we’ll see how it turns
⏹️ ▶️ John out and and for the one millimeter size difference like I know that doesn’t sound Like it’s a lot but
⏹️ ▶️ John With these little watches on people’s wrists a small change can
⏹️ ▶️ John actually look significant That’s why I’m kind of happy that it’s thinner because maybe that’ll make up for it being bigger
⏹️ ▶️ John Underscore put a little diagram of trying to show the size comparisons of like older Apple watches and if you
⏹️ ▶️ John take a really old like the 38mm Series 1 watch, that entire
⏹️ ▶️ John watch will basically fit inside the screen of a 42mm Series 10.
⏹️ ▶️ John So we’ve come a long way from that very, very, very tiny Series 1 watch, just
⏹️ ▶️ John a miniscule thing with terrible battery life. Now that whole watch fits inside the screen area of these
⏹️ ▶️ John new ones. So I think they’re going in the right direction. It’s obvious that people kind of like phones and like Marco said last episode,
⏹️ ▶️ John people like bigger screens on their watches and Apple is obliging, not just with bigger screens, but also,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, they made the watch bigger, but then within the size of watch, push that screen as
⏹️ ▶️ John far to the edges as you possibly can.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, when I watched this event, like I’d said earlier, you know, I thought I was getting an Ultra 3,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mostly because I’m just so sick and tired worrying about battery life. And then somebody, and I believe it was Marco, although every time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I say that it ends up being John, but I’m pretty sure this time it was Marco, said to me, you know what you could do is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just get the bigger watch again. And that would probably give you more than enough
⏹️ ▶️ Casey buffer to stop stressing about battery life all the time. Because I don’t necessarily begrudge,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t begrudge putting the watch on the charger every night. I would love to do sleep tracking, but I mean, whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not a big deal to me. And I’m perfectly happy with charging every night. What chaps my bottom
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that with my current Series 8 two years on, I’m not making it to nighttime
⏹️ ▶️ Casey unless I top it up at some point during the day.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think you just got unlucky with your battery, which happens, you know, not every battery is the same, but we get a lot of people writing in saying
⏹️ ▶️ John that they don’t have this problem with their watch. Normally, and you get two kinds of feedback. One is like, yes, this happens
⏹️ ▶️ John to me too. My Series 8 also doesn’t last through the day, but we didn’t get any of those. I don’t think we’ve got all people saying, I’ve got a
⏹️ ▶️ John watch and it lasts me through the day all the time. My wife, she’s grand, she’s got a Series 9, but she had a Series 8
⏹️ ▶️ John for a year and it was fine by the end of the year. Maybe either you just
⏹️ ▶️ John got unlucky or maybe you have like some runaway process that’s killing your battery because every once in a while I will say oh today and my watch
⏹️ ▶️ John battery ran down. I don’t understand why But then goes back to normal and I never hear about it again So
⏹️ ▶️ John I think you just might have lost the battery lottery on that particular watch
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It very well could be I did look at the battery health and it was reasonable I forget exactly what the number was. I want
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to say it was like upper 80% I will say that I typically do a 30 to 45 minute
⏹️ ▶️ Casey workout and by that I mean like the watch is in workout mode for 30 to 45 minutes at least every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey day. And so I don’t know if that makes a difference. But nevertheless, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey am hopeful that the Series 10, what with it being a two-year newer battery, a brand new battery,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will make a big difference. And so what I’ve done is I have pre-ordered a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very unremarkable Wi-Fi-only Series 10 big-size Apple Watch
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for myself, and basically the same thing for Erin except small size because that’s what she prefers. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m hopeful that that will be at least good enough for a year, preferably for two years, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I generally, I don’t think we’ve ever gone less than two years on an Apple Watch upgrade, but maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m wrong. And so that’s what I’ve ordered. And I really set out to order an Ultra 3, but there wasn’t one.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then Marco was in the back of my head, you know, just saying, the big one will be enough, the big one will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be enough, the big one will be enough. And I think Marco, I hope, and I think you’re probably going going to be right that I think that will be the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco difference I need. Yeah, no,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like look, I’m not going to toot my own horn unnecessarily. No, I’m definitely right about this. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big regular series watch is the watch that I think is right for you. Like for reference, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my series 9, one year old, you know, heavy use wear it almost every day.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I worked out today for a little over an hour in workout mode.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is now almost 9 p.m. and it’s still a 65% battery.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, God, that’s bananas. That’s absolutely bananas.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I use Always On, I’m using it all day and I don’t charge it at all during the day. So yeah, I mean, there’s,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the battery life on the big one is fine. I, you know, for whatever, I did wear the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco smaller one for a few years there in the middle. And I always thought that was decent
⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery life, but it wasn’t amazing, especially after the watch was more than a couple years old. You know, you would start to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice, you would have trouble getting through the day if you were doing workouts. That’s not the case with the big one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, and there’s different workout modes too. Like if you are, say, you know, running outside, so it’s using
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the GPS, and if you’re especially playing music while running, you know, playing music on the watch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while running with GPS in workout mode, that’s gonna be probably the worst case scenario for battery life.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even that, the big one is fine. Like, you know, the big regular series watch, I can do an outdoor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco run for an hour, listening to a podcast over AirPods the entire time with the watch,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe even using cellular during some of that time, and it will still get through that day. it is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. Like I will go to bed and it will not be in low power mode. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if your wrist supports it, I would strongly recommend getting the larger regular series
⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch for most people. Again, if you are okay with the size, you know, fashion wise,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think most people can pull it off. Honestly, like you have to be pretty petite and also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco care about that kind of thing to not be able to pull off the, you know, the middle
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sized Apple watch, which is what this is. And for most people, that’s not gonna be a concern. Most
⏹️ ▶️ Marco adults can easily pull off the big one, especially because large smartwatches
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are in style. Like even on people whose wrists are otherwise fairly small relative to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the average adult, say the bigger watch, even the Ultra, most people can wear whatever size they want.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And no one bats an eye at how it looks or whether it quote, fits them or not. You can wear whatever size
⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch you want. Fashion is all over the place on that. And big smartwatches are very much in fashion.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, this is probably in no small part my fault because this is a big watch year for me, but we have got to hurry it up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit. So I’m gonna try to speed run the rest. We skipped some health stuff. So there’s sleep apnea detection,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is extremely cool. I don’t personally suffer from this yet, as far as I know. How would
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know? But how would I know? And I feel like almost everyone I know seems to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sleep apnea these days. So this is very cool. It is not cleared.
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, the way it reportedly does it is based on like the movement of your wrists and not
⏹️ ▶️ John by, say, measuring your blood oxygen, which is good because?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, because the blood oxygen sensor has been turned off. As far as we know, it is physically there,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it is disabled because of patent disputes.
⏹️ ▶️ John Disabled only for US customers. Sorry,
⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re in Canada or any place else in the world, you get blood oxygen measurement, but not inside the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This has not been cleared from the FDA or equivalent organizations in other countries, but they expect clearance
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very soon and availability in 150 plus countries or regions this month,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey allegedly. Talking about the sleep apnea thing, right? That for the sleep apnea thing. Uh, then yeah, like you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, no blood oxygen measurement in the side of the US, which is a bummer. Uh, we talked about size differences, uh, $400 or $500.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can already pre-order it. It’ll be available on September 20th. Um, we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey already talked about the Ultra 2.
AirPods
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So let’s move on to AirPods 4 with Kate Bergeron. This has the H2
⏹️ ▶️ Casey chip, a new acoustic architecture, the smallest case ever, and optionally, which this was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not made clear or I missed it during the presentation, optionally, you can get a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey noise cancellation on the non-pro AirPods for the first time ever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh no, this is, oh my God, I loved this naming
⏹️ ▶️ Marco clumsiness. So here’s what it is. So this is actually two different products. There’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AirPods 4, and they introduced another version of AirPods 4, and they didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco announce the name until the end. And during the entire introduction of that part, they kept
⏹️ ▶️ Marco calling them these AirPods. So the introduction line was,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for those looking for even more performance in this style of AirPods, and the entire
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rest of that section, she kept saying these AirPods. You know, these AirPods have,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know, these AirPods have this, these AirPods have that. The Apple Watch case charging compatibility in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco case speaker in this charging case for these AirPods. And then eventually they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unveiled the name as AirPods 4 with active noise cancellation, which is one of those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, two Thunderbolt ports, you know, kind of names. So I would suggest since
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the actual name is so comically clumsy, we should call them what they called them,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these AirPods. So we have AirPods 4, these AirPods, and AirPods Pro and
⏹️ ▶️ John So here’s the question. Is the hardware different in the noise canceling version and the non-noise canceling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, so we at least know the case is different. This charging case.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m saying the things that go in your ears, are they different? Noise
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cancellation requires more microphones typically than just like one for receiving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone calls. So my guess is they probably have additional microphones,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t think we know that yet.
⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t you think the regular ones have multiple microphones for just like voice
⏹️ ▶️ John isolation and the other basic voice features?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I mean, either way, like microphones aren’t expensive. Like this is not like-
⏹️ ▶️ John What I’m saying is like, economically it might make more sense for Apple to make one AirPods 4
⏹️ ▶️ John piece of hardware. Like why make two different ones where even if one of them had to have more microphones, they would say, why don’t we just put the more
⏹️ ▶️ John microphones in all of them? It’s simpler, it simplifies everything, inventory, everything. and that this is purely
⏹️ ▶️ John like a software interlock where when you pay them $50 more, they enable the noise canceling
⏹️ ▶️ John features. Obviously, you know, I fix it. We’ll tear these things down and let us know. But I have to say, this weird thing of like AirPods 4,
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s the regular one and the one that costs 50 bucks more that has more features, right? And yes, they give you a better
⏹️ ▶️ John case with it and everything, which is more sort of like market segmentation, but this smells so much like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, when they sell like, this is one computer and if you pay more money, you can get, you know, more RAM in it or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if these pieces of hardware are different And in the end, it doesn’t really matter because I don’t think it’s gonna be particularly
⏹️ ▶️ John easy to like buy an AirPods 4 and hack it to enable the noise canceling. But
⏹️ ▶️ John if the hardware really is identical, that will be something. Because then it’s like, why are
⏹️ ▶️ John you, it’s not like the cheap one is like $99, right? The cheap one is still 130 and the expensive one is 180.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like, I don’t quite understand.
⏹️ ▶️ John And especially since they’re, like, the case feature, like having a speaker that,
⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know, so you can find your case when you lose it, like, that should kind of be an $130 one too,
⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s a useful feature that’s not like a pro feature. That’s a, I lost my case feature,
⏹️ ▶️ John whereas noise canceling I can see. But anyway, we’ll see when somebody cracks these things open, if they can slice it open and find
⏹️ ▶️ John out, like, is there any hardware difference whatsoever between them? Because
⏹️ ▶️ John if there’s not, this’ll be another, another strange hardware thing from Apple, kind of like
⏹️ ▶️ John the 12 gigabytes of RAM and the eight gigabyte iPad Pro. But anyway, speaking of
⏹️ ▶️ John me with stick shift sedans
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on, real time follow up real quick. The technical specs for the AirPods 4,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the size and weight for the earbuds themselves are not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey distinguished. Like the weight is the same for both flavors of AirPod. However,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as Marco, I think had mentioned, the case is, what is this like two and a half grams heavier
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the ear. It’s got the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in it. Right, exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the Apple Watch charging coil.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But the earbuds themselves, the dimensions are allegedly
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t think it tells us anything because these things are so lightweight that even if the hardware was different, who’s to say it wouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John weigh the same? We’ll find out when they tear them down. Yeah, we’ll see. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, because I mean, the processor in them is just branded H2, like every other H2
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AirPods. Like we don’t really know, Like, is the H2 the CPU?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or is there a difference? Is the H2 just the Bluetooth? Who knows? And then we also don’t know, is there more than one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of H2? Maybe they have, maybe they’re binned. Maybe it’s like two little tiny cores and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of them only have one core active. Who knows? They could be higher clock speed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco In the features that are in these AirPods, these features
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have more computational load to do with some of those features. things like, you know, ANC
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to begin with, obviously transparency mode, they have adaptive audio, they have conversation awareness, like they have most of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the core kind of audio processing features of the AirPods Pro. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s gonna be substantially more processing needs than the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco standard AirPods 4 that don’t have any of those, but they do, like, what gets me, like the standard
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AirPods 4 does have voice isolation on phone calls. So like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s also kind of one of those features. So I don’t know. It could be as simple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a different case and a couple of software enabled features.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who knows? But regardless, they now have, you know, most of the features available
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the AirPods Pro are now available in quote, this open ear
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, as I was saying, as I like my sedans and my desktop Macs with big GPUs,
⏹️ ▶️ John I also like the AirPods that don’t go in your ear holes. And generally, that
⏹️ ▶️ John design does not get the fancy features. It’s been two generations of AirPods Pro getting all their
⏹️ ▶️ John fancy features and their transparency mode and all this other stuff and the plain old AirPods that I like,
⏹️ ▶️ John eh, no, you don’t get that stuff. And so I’m excited this year that they brought most of those features
⏹️ ▶️ John to the ones that don’t go in your ear. Now granted, the fact that they don’t go in my ear means the noise canceling is not
⏹️ ▶️ John going to be as good for obvious physical reasons. they’re not literally sealing my ear hole, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And Apple itself says that the AirPods Pro have quote, two times better noise canceling. And I believe
⏹️ ▶️ John it, like I get it, but I just don’t like things in my ear holes. So I think it’s great that
⏹️ ▶️ John I get all these features that I’ve been hearing about, everybody rave about on the AirPods that they like, and I’m gonna get them in the kind
⏹️ ▶️ John that I like. Now, the possible downside is they did subtly change the shape
⏹️ ▶️ John of these AirPods. They’ve done it, what? There’s been three different shapes. There’s the original
⏹️ ▶️ John AirPod shape. There’s the one that I have now, which is AirPods 3 or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then there’s these new ones. And every time they change the shape, there’s a possibility
⏹️ ▶️ John that the thing that used to fit in your ear nice and comfy is not going to. The main hope I have
⏹️ ▶️ John is that the AirPods 3 have always felt a little big in my
⏹️ ▶️ John ears compared to their predecessors. Not uncomfortable and I’m fine with them or whatever, but they always feel a little bit big.
⏹️ ▶️ John And these look like they might be a little bit slimmer. so I’m hoping these will be even more comfortable. The one thing we didn’t get is that
⏹️ ▶️ John the Pro still have is the little slidey volume thing. Still a Pro only feature.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, because you do have the squeeze the stem to play pause thing. Right, but not the volume
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. That’s all right, the volume thing
⏹️ ▶️ John is very difficult to trigger. Yeah, market segmentation, whatever. But I’m excited about these,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve already pre-ordered them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wait, did you get AirPods 4 or these AirPods?
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m getting AirPods 4. Again, when you go to buy it, It says, what do you want to buy? You say, I want to buy
⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods 4. And then it’s just like when you’re configuring RAM. It’s like, do you want the one, or they’re saying like, do you
⏹️ ▶️ John want the one with the, you know, the 10 core CPU or the 12 core CPU? Like, that’s what you’re picking. The
⏹️ ▶️ John only difference is the options say AirPods 4, AirPods 4 with noise canceling at $50, right? That’s how
⏹️ ▶️ John the checkout process works. So it is very kind of like, these are the AirPods 4 and there’s a $50
⏹️ ▶️ John more expensive version that has a bunch of new features. And like, even if the noise canceling
⏹️ ▶️ John stinks and doesn’t work and isn’t useful at all, I’m just happy to have new AirPods
⏹️ ▶️ John with all the features that you expect a new thing to have. The sound is a little bit better. Obviously, they’ll have fresh batteries.
⏹️ ▶️ John The case will have a little beepy thing in it. The one thing I’m worried about the case a little bit is that they changed
⏹️ ▶️ John the Bluetooth pairing button from being a physical button to being a capacitive button, which obviously makes it
⏹️ ▶️ John more durable, simpler to manufacture. I understand why they did it, but
⏹️ ▶️ John when your AirPods are being ornery, There’s something about having a physical button that you can hold down to let you know, I’m really holding
⏹️ ▶️ John down the button for the required three seconds or whatever to go into pairing mode. And now I’m just gonna be putting my fingers vaguely somewhere
⏹️ ▶️ John on the smooth front surface of the thing and hoping that I’m hitting the capacitive section.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey To go back a quick step, I completely meant to mention earlier in the Apple Watch segment that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they made a point of saying that they are preferring or they’re prioritizing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey non-air shipping. And I really wanna know, Like, did they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey already send a whole batch of watches with a boat a month and a half ago? Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I think yes. I think that’s how they do things generally.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, no, no, but I mean, look at iPhones, for example. As far as I knew, anytime I’ve paid attention,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey those things fly oftentimes directly from China to your house. You know, obviously
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re, you know, hubbing, spoking their way from across the planet. But my point is, it’s not like the beginning
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the trip is noted as Louisville, Kentucky or something, or wherever UPS’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey headquarters is, or that is UPS, or FedEx in Memphis, you know, it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey starts in like Shenzhen or whatever, and then you watch these things march across the planet, and they go to Anchorage, and they go to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey somewhere else, and so on and so forth. I can’t help but wonder, did they ship a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey whole buttload of these via a ship over like a month or two ago
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get them ready for release this coming Friday? I really am curious.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, now that they have the pizza boxes to update them, maybe that’s part of the reason why they did that. honestly, like
⏹️ ▶️ John And also if they can get that far ahead of the game, like there’s a reason that Apple keeps saying, and this product is carbon neutral,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they haven’t really said that about the iPhone yet. I’m not sure that there are
⏹️ ▶️ John enough phones ready early enough to be put on a boat, but I can imagine there being enough AirPods ready
⏹️ ▶️ John early enough to put on boats.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I was talking about the watch though. That was when they said it was the watch.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or the watch even like, I feel like the watch, the phone is the hardest one because they have to make the most of them
⏹️ ▶️ John and it pushes the technology the farthest usually. So, who knows?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Keep in mind also, the sales cycle of these products is the whole year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and possibly beyond. So even if they have a lot of air shipment for these first few weeks, as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re pretty new coming out of the factory, at some point that sales rate is going to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco dip below the production rate by enough that they can start sending big batches of them by boat and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll be fine by the time they get here. But also, one other thing on the carbon neutrality of the watch, as we went back to there anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I forgot to mention that one, I think significant change this year. So last year, they introduced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first carbon neutral Apple Watch configuration, but it was only like you had to get, like, I think it was just the aluminum
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one with just certain bands. So what they said this year was, now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any Apple Watch in any finish, quote, can be carbon neutral. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it depends on what kind of band you pick, but it’s new that any of the metals, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the Apple Watches with any of the metal choices can now be carbon neutral with certain band choices.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s great. Like they have expanded how many of their products can be carbon neutral. And they’re indicating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even in the store interface when you pick out things, they’re telling you which choices are carbon
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re pushing that goal forward. I think that’s a very laudable thing that they’re doing that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re actually making real progress on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, yep, very much so. So apologies for going back in time for a minute. Good news is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we have a lot to talk about with regards to the AirPods Max. There are five new colors, midnight blue, purple, orange,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey starlight. They take USB-C. They’re still 550 bucks. You can order them now. Moving on,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John AirPods Pro 2.
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to say about the AirPods Max, people being disappointed in this or whatever, it’s like, look,
⏹️ ▶️ John obviously their successor is not ready yet. So your alternative is no update or just
⏹️ ▶️ John put a USB-C port on it. And if they didn’t update it, everyone would have said, they should have just at least put a USB-C
⏹️ ▶️ John port on it. Well, they did. And if you already have one and you don’t want to buy a new one just to get the USB-C port,
⏹️ ▶️ John fine. But they should put a USB-C while we wait for the AirPods Max 2, which presumably gonna come someday
⏹️ ▶️ John and hopefully it will be better in a bunch of ways. In the meantime, yeah, get rid of the stupid lightning
⏹️ ▶️ John port. The sooner the better. And it’s not like, who’s gonna upgrade to these? Nobody, don’t, like
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re exactly the same as the ones you have. Don’t buy it, like, I mean, I’m gonna tell you not to buy, but honestly, don’t buy
⏹️ ▶️ John a new thing just to change the port on the bottom. It’s ridiculous. Just hold onto them
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco until the two’s gone. It’s not that
⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous. But for people who have never bought the AirPods Max though, they’re buying it for
⏹️ ▶️ John the very first time, guess what? They get a USB-C port and it’s better for them. So I endorse this update,
⏹️ ▶️ John even though obviously if you were waiting for the AirPods Max 2, this is not your time yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, obviously they really didn’t have time to fix all of the AirPods Max’s glaring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shortcomings since it’s only been out for four
⏹️ ▶️ John years. Hey, as I was saying, sometimes if the product that you like isn’t the
⏹️ ▶️ John one that gets updated every single year, you gotta be patient.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, when the AirPods Max came out, pretty much everybody said, okay, these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are pretty good in certain ways. They are a little heavy and uncomfortable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a result of that. They are very expensive, and the case they came with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is stupid and garbage and very inconvenient, and like that weird kind of like, you know, bra-shape,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, case. It’s a bad case in so many ways. So what they’ve changed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is we got new colors and a USB-C port, and we’ve addressed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco none of the major flaws of this product.
⏹️ ▶️ John But they weren’t trying to. The successor will potentially attempt to address those
⏹️ ▶️ John shortcomings, but this is not the successor. This is just that we need to get products with lightning on them out of our lineup,
⏹️ ▶️ John and so they have. And it makes it an ever so slightly better product than the one that it
⏹️ ▶️ John replaced. Not enough for anyone to buy a second one, But for anyone buying their first one, now
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t have to deal with lightning. I just,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they couldn’t even have given us a different case. That’s one of the most egregious problems with these is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that dumb case. And after four years, they couldn’t even revise
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that even a little
⏹️ ▶️ John bit? I don’t want them to waste their time building a new case in what is probably the last year of this product’s
⏹️ ▶️ John life. Just concentrate on the successor, get that done as soon as you can. Hopefully it’ll be next year. Oh my God.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I don’t know. I see both sides of this. I am slightly disappointed by this, or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more than slightly disappointed by this update, but I was never in the market for these anyway. But it’s better
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have something than
⏹️ ▶️ John I guess? Yeah, like I said, for the people who are buying their first one, just get that lightning thing out of
⏹️ ▶️ John there. Like, they need to do it with the Magic Mouse, they need to do it with all the keyboards, and just like, they need to eventually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the fear is that, and this is a very founded fear based on Apple’s history, the fear
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that this is gonna be it for the next four years. like that they touched it and it’s like, all right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we touched it, it’s updated, new banner, and then that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John it. No, that’s not, this is clearly a sort of like try to stem some of the pain while
⏹️ ▶️ John we work on the successor, right? Or they just can’t in the whole product line, but I think there’s gonna be a successor and it will, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, like again, think about the Mac Pro people, think of how long we wait for things to happen. You just gotta chill, you just gotta
⏹️ ▶️ John be patient, you just gotta believe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think this is literally the Unix touch command, like, all right, we touched it,
⏹️ ▶️ John counts. Even the HomePod, those people like, Are they ever gonna change the HomePod? The
⏹️ ▶️ John big HomePod, is it ever gonna get better? It looks like they’re discontinuing it. And then what happened? They did come out with another
⏹️ ▶️ Marco after it was dead. But it was also a lot better. Like, it still had a long way to go. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the second one was significantly
⏹️ ▶️ John updated. But you never give up. What I’m saying is you never give up hope. They waited so long that the product
⏹️ ▶️ John was dead. You couldn’t buy a big HomePod. You’re like, this is it, it’s over. There’s never gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John be another one. And then there was another one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God. the AirPods Max are a better product that’s more successful than the Home. But like, anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I was an AirPods Max fan and I was waiting for this update, I’d be pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mad. And John, I think you’re optimistic. I don’t think there, you can make a bet, add it to your calendar. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think there’s a chance in hell the AirPods Max get another update, at least for two years. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John think I would bet two years, but I would bet five. You know, like I can tell
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a high priority product, priority product, but it seems like they still are going to
⏹️ ▶️ John make another one, but I would not bet on two years.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Three? You wanna go three? It’s a little harder on me, but I
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I’ll go three.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, let’s do it. Three years, I’ll take that bet. I’m saying not before three years from now. You’re saying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before three years from now, they will get an update.
⏹️ ▶️ John Three is like, I would have been more comfortable with four or five, but I’ll do three because it’s more interesting. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s a bit of a risk for both of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us, I think. Yeah, exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey God willing, I’ll see you all in September 11th, 2027. All right, AirPods Pro 2, short, short version,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no updates, how it, well, no hardware updates,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey big, big software updates. We’re gonna skip the first one, I’m gonna come back to that, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said that they’re working with prevention awareness and assistance, we’re gonna skip prevention just for a moment.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For awareness, they’re doing a hearing test that has been quote unquote clinically validated, it takes about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey five minutes. Basically, you just tap the screen when you hear things and it makes a personal audio profile,
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re pretty sure that’s right. Yeah, so here’s the thing. We’ve talked about this on the show many times in past years where there
⏹️ ▶️ John are third party apps on the App Store. You can see them listed in the health app that you can download that will
⏹️ ▶️ John do this. They will give you a hearing test and then they will create an audio profile based on how well
⏹️ ▶️ John you can hear certain frequencies in the headphones you’re using at the time you do the audio
⏹️ ▶️ John test. And then it lets you save that audiogram to your phone. And then you can say,
⏹️ ▶️ John hey phone, from now on when I’m using these headphones, apply this essentially equalizer
⏹️ ▶️ John setting to all audio that comes out of my phone so that my stupid ears can hear
⏹️ ▶️ John it the best way possible. So if your left ear has a real hard time hearing like 10 kilohertz,
⏹️ ▶️ John it will boost 10 kilohertz to your left ear only when using these headphones with
⏹️ ▶️ John your phone when playing any audio. I did this back on the show, whatever it was a year or two ago.
⏹️ ▶️ John I made an audiogram for myself with some third party app that was terrible. And I
⏹️ ▶️ John installed it on my phone and I’ve been using it ever since when I listen on my AirPods, using that
⏹️ ▶️ John audiogram profile for every piece of audio I listen to, I recommend it. But the one thing that I hated was,
⏹️ ▶️ John what third-party app should I get? And I have to say, they were all terrible. Some of them were weird and scammy and had some other thing they
⏹️ ▶️ John were going on. The other ones, the UI was terrible. So thank goodness, Apple is saying, forget
⏹️ ▶️ John about the third-party apps. This is part of the phone now, part of the OS. If you buy
⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods Pro 2 or whatever, and you have a phone, you will be able to just do this on the phone with what
⏹️ ▶️ John has to be a better interface than these third party things. I think this is great. I think every
⏹️ ▶️ John single person who has AirPods Pro 2 and a phone and the new OS and everything should do this. It’s real
⏹️ ▶️ John quick to do and what you get at, and don’t do it like when you have a cold like I do now because your hearing will be all messed up. When you’re healthy
⏹️ ▶️ John and your ears are working at their optimum quality and you have a quiet moment somewhere with no background noise, do the
⏹️ ▶️ John five minute test, save the audiogram, and I think it just syncs up with all your health data, and then apply the
⏹️ ▶️ John audiogram and all the audio coming out of your phone will sound better. highly endorsed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is awesome. Like for them to be leaning into hearing health and to be taking advantage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the AirPods Pro’s amazing abilities here, like this is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is a very big deal for a lot of people.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, and it gets better because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey prevention awareness assistance. Assistance, so there’s going to be clinical grade
⏹️ ▶️ Casey over the air hearing aid
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco update this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fall. Over the counter, thank you. No, I think you’re right, over the counter and over the air because it’s going to be a software update.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re both right. All right, por que no los dos. Anyway, this fall, in 100 or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more countries and regions, so you take that hearing test we just talked about and it boosts the specific
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds you need in real time and they expect to receive that clearance soon. So let me repeat that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can basically use these as hearing aids starting this fall. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, luckily, I don’t have to know yet much about this, but my very limited understanding about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hearing aids is that they are all impossibly expensive, or at least here in America, and possibly expensive.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey A lot of them, if not almost all of them, are rather trash, and it’s just not very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fun to get yourself a set of hearing aids. And now, you can just go to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Best Buy or Walmart or the Apple Store, or not now, I should say, but soon, and pick up a set of AirPods
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro 2, do the compulsory software-related things, like the hearing test, and then you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have clinical-grade, over-the-counter hearing aids in your ears
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this fall. That is unreal and I very, very much applaud Apple for doing this. This
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is extremely cool.
⏹️ ▶️ John And to be clear, the hearing test thing, there’s two sides of that. When they do that, they’re measuring how well your ear hears, each of your
⏹️ ▶️ John ears hears different frequencies. And they do two things with that. One, they can change the audio that you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John playing, your podcast, your music, whatever, the audio playing from your phone, they modify that audio with an equalizer
⏹️ ▶️ John to make it sound more like it’s supposed to. But the second thing is, with the hearing aid mode, sound coming in
⏹️ ▶️ John from the outside world hits the microphones on your AirPods and then gets replayed
⏹️ ▶️ John inside your ear, also applying that audiogram in sort of hearing aid mode. And in terms
⏹️ ▶️ John of like this versus like, quote unquote, real hearing aids, obviously one advantage that real hearing aids
⏹️ ▶️ John have is they’re very often much smaller and more discreet than AirPods. But of
⏹️ ▶️ John course, the main advantage that AirPods have is people might already own them,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? Or if you’re worried about having a hearing aid or you’re like nervous about it or embarrassed or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John just try the feature. Like, there’s like the barrier to entry of like, am I the type of person who needs to go and get a
⏹️ ▶️ John hearing aid? A lot of people don’t want to go over that barrier, but am I the type of person who either already owns
⏹️ ▶️ John or can buy AirPods with the Apple Star? Yeah, much lower barrier. You don’t buy that and say like, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m buying a hearing aid. And then once people start using them, if they find that it is useful
⏹️ ▶️ John and people say, you know, we love that you love your new hearing aid, dad, but you’re always wearing your AirPods,
⏹️ ▶️ John it looks kind of weird. Why didn’t you just get a quote unquote real hearing aid for 10 times the price?
⏹️ ▶️ John that is much, much smaller, and it won’t fall out of your ears as easily, and the charge lasts longer, and yada, yada,
⏹️ ▶️ John yada. And so I feel like this is a great example of Apple sort of lowering the barrier to entry,
⏹️ ▶️ John getting people over the hump to do a thing that they wouldn’t have otherwise done, even if it turns out that
⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods are not sufficient for their needs, or eventually become insufficient for their needs, or are not as good as a real thing, or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John just because it starts them down the path. So just like the sleep apnea stuff and all those other things of like, it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John as good as going to a doctor, it’s not as good as getting a sleep test or whatever, but people who are like afraid to find
⏹️ ▶️ John out or don’t wanna sleep in a weird place or do a sleep test or trial or whatever, but they do own a watch
⏹️ ▶️ John and they will say, okay, I’m gonna wear my watch when I sleep just to see. And what does it say? What it basically says
⏹️ ▶️ John is maybe sleep apnea, talk to your doctor, right? And that is the first
⏹️ ▶️ John step to getting them over the hump to saying like, people wondering, is there something wrong or whatever?
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe this will give them a little push to say, oh, actually the watch totally says that it’s sensing sleep apnea. Is it right? Is it wrong?
⏹️ ▶️ John go to your doctor and find out versus I’m just going to sit here and fret. Do I have sleep apnea? I don’t know. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John want to find out. I don’t want to have a CPAP bubble. Blah, blah. This is the one of the great strengths of Apple health
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. Not that it solves all your problems, but that it lowers the barrier to entry for people
⏹️ ▶️ John who are afraid of health stuff, whether it’s, are afraid of getting into exercise, afraid of asking if
⏹️ ▶️ John they need a hearing aid, afraid of going to the doctor and asking about sleep apnea. You just buy your bunch of Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff and it will sort of nudge you in that direction with small vague pieces
⏹️ ▶️ John of information to sort of push you along the path.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and to be clear, like, if any of you out there are hearing this and you’re like, well, it probably doesn’t work that well.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you’ve never heard transparency mode on AirPods Pro,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is way better than you think it can be. Even if you’ve heard transparency mode or pass-through
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode on other noise canceling headphones, trust me, so have I.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Go read all the reviews. Everyone agrees the AirPods Pro transparency
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode is way better than every other pair of headphones on the market, including yes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the brand new, whatever new Sony XM series is out that year. Yes, even better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than that. Even better than the AirPods Max when they were new, let alone now. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the transparency pass-through mode on AirPods Pro is remarkably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. It is stunningly good. So they can do things like this. They can have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really interesting and useful and amazing audio features for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people’s regular hearing that are built upon transparency mode and the amazing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing they’ve built there. And this is just one of the many things. I’ve mentioned in the past how
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m now using AirPods Pro 2 as my hearing protection when I go to concerts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it works. And this is another feature they talked about is hearing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey protection.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is the prevention of prevention, awareness, and assistance. And so, yeah, there’s now a hearing protection
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mode or otherwise known as the Marco mode.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, exactly. And so I actually, we’ll talk about it in the after show. I went to a concert this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco past weekend and I wore the same AirPods Pro in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same part of the audience in the same venue that I was in a year ago.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And a year ago, that was the first time I tried the mishearing protection at a concert. And I gave a whole report on the show about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how it worked pretty well. It worked better than any quote concert earplugs that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had available and that I had tried. Way better than all those. And it was pretty great. The only problem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had noted last fall when I went to the Phish concert was that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I would turn my head a little bit side to side, sometimes they would kind of get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unbalanced because I was no longer aligned perfectly with the PA speakers, evenly on both sides,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if I’m like looking to the left or right, and it would kind of like make the sound kind of unbalanced and wacky,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it was like a little bit imperfect. This past weekend with the iOS 18, and you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, whatever latest versions of AirPods firmware there are, this past weekend, it was flawless. It
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was just perfect. There was no imbalance. There was no like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pumping effects. Like you get like compressor pumping effects if you’re like, you know, in audio terms, none of that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was just perfect. It sounded exact, and at one point, I was like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the guitar sounds a little bit low in the mix. I wonder if that’s the processing. And I took them out to see what it sounded
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like without them. And first of all, it blew my ears off, it was so loud. But I also noticed, no, the mix
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the same. It wasn’t messing with the mix. It was just making everything evenly quieter.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And all I was doing, this was not any new feature that they’re about to add. This is the feature that’s already there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s just transparency mode with what is currently called reduce loud sounds, which I believe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is on by default now. So they already, in the last year, have made
⏹️ ▶️ Marco massive strides before this new hearing protection version even launches. And so to have that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now on by default and available in all listening modes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s incredible. And all of the, you know, the idea of using AirPods Pro as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hearing aids, that’s not only incredible for so many reasons,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But also that’s totally plausible as a thing that they could be very good at within the range of what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they can correct for. You know, they can’t correct above a certain level of decibel needs or whatever, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s fine. You know, there’s obviously, you know, quote, real hearing aids for that. But this is gonna be great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a lot of people. The only thing I would request, if they’re gonna lean more into this, which I love that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they are, building on what John was saying earlier, wearing AirPods Pro when you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trying to like, talk to people, people don’t know that you can hear them. and it’s not like this is just something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that people are gonna figure out next year or in six months, like we’ve had AirPods for a while now.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Society has not accepted the idea that you can just talk to people wearing headphones because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you on the outside, you can’t tell whether they can hear you or not. See also the Vision Pro
⏹️ ▶️ Marco weird eye thing. Like you can’t tell if they can hear you or not. So you kind of are hesitant to talk to people with headphones in.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I as an AirPods user will frequently, will almost always take them out when
⏹️ ▶️ Marco talking to people because again, like even though my podcast is paused or whatever, they don’t know that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if they want to have AirPods Pro be able to take more of these roles,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the smaller and more discreet they can become, the better. And this doesn’t necessarily mean they have to be,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, super tiny in your ears with the thing that loops behind you like the way many hearing aids are designed,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but even just something as simple as if they were available in something closer to skin
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tones rather than bright white. Like even just, heck, even just give us a black version, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like something other than bright white, because that’s one thing, when I’m wearing them at a concert, I’m very aware
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like, this is very visible. Like this, like I would love to have those be a little more discreet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Skin tones would be perfect. If not, you know, just something a little bit darker maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And certainly if they can investigate maybe a stickless design for this kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use, that would also be interesting. That obviously starts, you know, start changing their product in pretty big ways
⏹️ ▶️ Marco once you do that, but we know it’s possible because literally everyone else does it that way. So there are different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco suggestions I would make in terms of the physical design and colors to lean into this kind of feature set. Beats
⏹️ ▶️ John has basically stickless ones. Don’t they use the H2 in Beats as well? And they also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Literally every other competitor, everything is stickless except the AirPods. I was gonna say, Beats isn’t a competitor, it’s also Apple. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they let Beats explore different designs and different features and everything. But yeah, so overall,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, a discrete design would be great in the future, or at least different color choices. But,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall, what an amazing feature set for the AirPods Pro 2. Like, they were already incredible headphones.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’ve already replaced all of my portable headphone uses, yes, including on planes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’ve replaced every other time I use headphones that’s not at my desk. They’re just so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredibly good, and this now expands their use even more, makes them even better.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am so happy to see this. I would never have guessed that Apple would do this. I would have thought that Apple would not want to get into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the, you know, another medical area that might require certain approvals or things.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But nope, they did it and I’m super happy they did it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, couldn’t agree more. This stuff is all very, very good. And I’m proud
⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t the word I’m looking for, but I can’t think of a better word. I’m really proud of Apple, even though I have no relationship with them really,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I’m proud of Apple for doing these things because they’re not easy. And in a lot of ways, they’re not terribly glamorous,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they’re important. And you don’t often see a big, huge company
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do things that are important unless they’re pretty much entirely self-serving.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And yeah, there’s some self-serving aspects to this, but this just seems like the right thing to do. And you don’t see that a lot from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey big companies these days. So I’m here for it. I really dig it.
Sponsor: Tailscale
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are sponsored this week by Tailscale. Tailscale is the easiest way to connect
⏹️ ▶️ Casey devices and services to each other wherever they are. Let’s say you had a device in Richmond and one in Boston
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and one in New York and one in San Francisco and one in Europe and Australia and Asia. What if you wanted all those devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to talk to each other as though they were on the same land? What if you wanted your own personal, private,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey international, local area network? That is basically what Tailscale is. Tailscale
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is an easy to deploy, zero-config, No fuss VPN. Well, Casey, well, hold on now, you say.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve heard all these VPN ads and I’m not sure I’m keen on that. Well, ho, ho, I say to you, this isn’t a VPN
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like you think. Yes, it’s a VPN, but it’s different. What Tailscale’s purpose in life is, is to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey make it completely transparent to your devices to get to any of the other devices that you own.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So it’s like they’re on the same land, even if they’re across continents from each other. It is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey truly amazing. Before I tried Tailscale, I was like, ah, I don’t know, what’s the hype all about? Is this really that? Yes, it’s that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good. They can’t pay me to tell you that. It really is that good. I use Tailscale every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey single day, and I mean that, because it is incredibly good. You can build
⏹️ ▶️ Casey simple networks across complex infrastructure like that. It is so slick,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so fast, so easy to use, and what’s great about it is their personal plan is and always
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will be free. So you can try out Tailscale for free. No credit card, no nothing. You get up to 100 devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and three users for free Tailscale.com slash ATP. T-A-I-L-S-C-A-L-E
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dot com slash ATP. No credit card required. Go check it out. Do me a favor, but really,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you a favor. Go check out Tailscale. It is incredible. Any of your devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking to each other always, no matter what ridiculous network infrastructure stands between them. It’s magic.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean it. Tailscale.com slash ATP. Thank you to Tailscale for sponsoring this week.
iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, 90 minutes in, let’s talk iPhones. Good grief.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, I don’t think we’re going to have trouble. I don’t think there’s that much to talk about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, well, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re mostly right, but we’ll see what happens. I told you that I didn’t want to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey old man shouts at clouds, so I’m going to take the happy spin on the iPhone 16. Those
⏹️ ▶️ Casey colors look so good and I am so impressed by them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I want them. What is
⏹️ ▶️ John the unhappy spin? I love this phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, the unhappy spin is me pissing and moaning about how I don’t have it on the iPhone 16 Pro. That’s the unhappy version.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I see. The happy version
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John though is these things
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look so damn good and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am very jealous because I’m going to end up with an iPhone 16 Pro, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this year, and I’m not the first person to say this, this year more than any other year, I have been extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tempted by the iPhone 16. And honestly, and I think Quinn made this point in his video as well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is a really strong year for the iPhone 16 non-pro. It’s really,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really an impressive year for it. And if you were ever wondering if you really needed to go pro,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if you have a little more self-awareness than I do, because I will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey always and forever by the pro because I’m a fancy lad, this is genuinely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey such a good year for the iPhone 16. And gosh knows these colors are so good. They’re so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good. I’m so jealous of these colors because they’re so great.
⏹️ ▶️ John I wish they had done the backs like the iMac backs. You know what I mean? Like have the sides be the same,
⏹️ ▶️ John but have the backs be richer. But yeah, I mean, my main complaint about the colors, I mean, despite
⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that I think the black and the white look really good, those black and the white take two slots that could have another
⏹️ ▶️ John interesting colors. You know what I mean? Like where’s the yellow? Where’s the purple? Where’s the red?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John true. But still, pretty good year for colors. I mean, all these colors leaked obviously, although this is one
⏹️ ▶️ John of those cases where Apple’s product photography of the colors looks better than the
⏹️ ▶️ John leaked shots of someone just taking a picture of them or whatever, but probably the truth will be
⏹️ ▶️ John somewhere in between when you actually go to the store and look at these. But yeah, there’s not an ugly color in the bunch, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John for sure. But the most, the thing to me, the most important thing about these phones physically
⏹️ ▶️ John wise is, I don’t know, we talked about this, the vertical cameras, right? So they’re aligned for
⏹️ ▶️ John better spatial audio or whatever, or better spatial video and spatial photos, but
⏹️ ▶️ John realigning them in that way minimizes the camera mesa
⏹️ ▶️ John in a way that we haven’t seen in years. Because when they were in an angle, it was always like there’s a square mesa
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s got a bunch of crap on it and it’s a smaller square than the pro square, but it’s still a
⏹️ ▶️ John square. And now we’ve gone back and now it’s like, hey, you know the phone that doesn’t have as much camera stuff?
⏹️ ▶️ John That has a capsule. Back in, what was the last one that did it? like the XR maybe, or the, which
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I don’t remember which,
⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe the XS was the last one that was like, they’ve used this arrangement before. And granted, the cameras are still
⏹️ ▶️ John really big, but because they’re just vertical, they’re so skinny. The Mesa is so skinny
⏹️ ▶️ John compared to what it used to be. And it makes what is a smaller and lighter phone that only
⏹️ ▶️ John has two cameras, get the advantage of only having two cameras, which is you don’t have as much
⏹️ ▶️ John camera stuff bulging out of the back of the thing. And then obviously as we’ll get to in a little bit,
⏹️ ▶️ John the other side of all this is, this is a year when the non-Pro phone
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t get last year’s processor, doesn’t get denied the cool
⏹️ ▶️ John new feature. Like if you were ever thinking of buying a new phone and you don’t typically buy the Pro
⏹️ ▶️ John phones, the 16 is a good year to buy because you get the current SoC more or less, we’ll talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about it in a little bit. You get the fancy new feature, which is the camera control button, we’ll talk about it in a little bit,
⏹️ ▶️ John and you get a bunch of nice colors. I’m a big fan of the 16th. Not gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Same, absolutely same. I would rock the snot out of the ultramarine phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think Aaron would adore the pink phone. And the other colors, teal
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is also very good. The white is very white and the black is very black, but the three
⏹️ ▶️ Casey colorful colors, and I agree with what you said earlier, John, about it’s too bad there’s not like a yellow or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey These colors are so good. I’m so into these colors, so very much so. But anyways, moving on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They say that it’s got a 50% tougher than first generation ceramic shield.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I believe that’s the front glass, right? That they’re talking about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but this is another one of the, like the first generation ceramic shield, wasn’t it like 10 years ago?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t know which. That’s, I said, a lot of things they would say like, second generation.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m like, what generation were they on before? Right, has it been second generation for five years? Anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they usually, they will usually compare it to much longer than one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco year ago. It’ll usually be at least two years ago and possibly more because it makes the comparisons
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we’ll find out when Casey gets one because the same ceramic shield is on the Pro. So you can
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey compare the scratches.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, right, exactly. 6.1, 6.7 inches for the 7.7 inches for the iPhone 16 Plus.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It now gets the action button that the Pros had last year. It gets the fancy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey new camera control button. I’d like to come back to that in a minute, please. Yes. It’s got the vertically stacked lenses like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we discussed. It’s got the same chip, basically. It’s the A18,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we later found
⏹️ ▶️ John the same chip, not the same chip.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we found out later that there’s an A18 Pro, so there is a difference, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey largely the same. But it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John get last year’s chip. That’s the important thing. Correct. Right, and that’s, I mean, we’ve had years
⏹️ ▶️ John where the non-Pro phone gets last year’s chip, and we’ve had years where it gets the same chip, and we’ve had years
⏹️ ▶️ John where it gets almost the same chip, and this is in almost the same chip years. We’ll get to when we get to the Pro phone. But
⏹️ ▶️ John the point is, it’s not the A17 or the A16 or any other, like
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a chip that you’ve seen before. It is a new chip tailored for this phone and that’s exactly what you want.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, and so I don’t think we need to go into the specifics about the chip because we’ll probably end up covering them in the pro phone, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey suffice to say, it’s almost the same. There’s improved cooling in both non-pro
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and pro. And so I guess this was John, maybe it was me. Somebody put in
⏹️ ▶️ John this is directly from the, so they said stuff, They said new cooling stuff about both phones. This is a
⏹️ ▶️ John quote from the event video.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We updated the main logic board, centralizing the chip placement and optimizing the surrounding architecture. We also added
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a thermal substructure to dissipate heat made from 100% recycled aluminum. As a result, the iPhone 16
⏹️ ▶️ Casey delivers up to 30% higher sustained performance for gaming. I’m here for this. This is excellent.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, basically just sounds like they did a better heat sink than they had done previously. And they have a measurement to say, what
⏹️ ▶️ John does it do? We get better sustained performance for gaming, thumbs up. And again, the
⏹️ ▶️ John non-Pro phone is not known for overheating, but the fact that they did something to improve it and have some measurement
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s interesting. So on the Pro phone, they expanded a little bit on this, which might be related. On the Pro phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco section, they said that they quote, “‘Maximized thermal capacity with a new aluminum frame
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a quote, graphite clad aluminum substructure that provides up to 20% improvement
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in sustained performance on the 16 Pro.” So it sounds like at least
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in both phones, they talked about thermals. And in both phones, the euphemism they used was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco improvement in sustained performance. But what that really means is heat dissipation. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what that means, cooling. And so whether this Base 16 has the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco graphite clad aluminum substructure, we don’t know that. It doesn’t, they would have said it. Probably, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But either way, the thermals are better in both phones and that’s good because on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 15 Pro at least, I don’t know about the regular 15, but on the 15 Pro, Thermal took a pretty big step
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back. So this is good to see.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We had Craig come back out and do a reintroduction of Apple Intelligence, which does
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look good in theory, but none of it’s coming.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just a rehash of WWDC, which again, I think they had to do because the people who are watching this did not watch
⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC, you know, for the most part.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, look, Siri looks good in presentations, too. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no idea how this is going to be yet. Right,
⏹️ ▶️ John but still, they got to get the word out. Here’s a bunch of stuff that we’re promising, and we’ll all see how it turns out.
⏹️ ▶️ John But it is important to get that word out, because this is their chance to talk to the world about this stuff that we all know about, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey One quick note from the Apple Intelligence section, for those of us who still have young children, of which that’s just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me on the program, I did think it was funny that they did the Australian cattle dog
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as the, what kind of breed is this? And that is, I think, or may have been construed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a subtle bluey nod, which I’m very much here for. So that made me have a good laugh. But anyways, then we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey move on to the camera. Let’s talk camera control. So this is a sapphire crystal where there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey many different things that you’re doing with this one camera control. And
⏹️ ▶️ John before we get to the things, I’ve seen a lot of reports of people who were there at the event and they got to hold the phones
⏹️ ▶️ John and use the camera control, which is what we had been calling in the months prior to this event. the capture
⏹️ ▶️ John button, but Apple’s calling it the camera control. Talking about whether
⏹️ ▶️ John this thing moves in or not when you press it, I’ve seen people
⏹️ ▶️ John it does move in. I’ve seen people say it doesn’t move in, but it tricks you into thinking it does. I’ve heard people
⏹️ ▶️ John say it’s just force sensitive. And it amazes me that I guess maybe you didn’t get enough hands
⏹️ ▶️ John on time, but no one just did a close up and said, if it moves, you’ll be able to see it. Even
⏹️ ▶️ John if it moves a millimeter, you’ll be able to see it move that millimeter when you press it. So I do not know
⏹️ ▶️ John the answer to this question of whether it moves or not, which I
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco think is a testament.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Neelay Patel said specifically that it definitely moves. But is he right? Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, they showed it. I mean, if it moves and there’s also haptic feedback, that is an interesting combination
⏹️ ▶️ John that I don’t think Apple has ever done before, because they either do haptic feedback and it doesn’t move, or
⏹️ ▶️ John just it moves and that’s all there is to it. And so this is going to presumably give haptic feedback when it’s partially
⏹️ ▶️ John through its actual travel to indicate a half press, will it
⏹️ ▶️ John push back against you as in like force feedback kind of to make it feel the The half
⏹️ ▶️ John press thing and everyone kept comparing it to you know, real cameras with their half press or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John As far as any camera that I’ve ever used any quote-unquote real camera with the half button press or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think there’s any Non, there’s any magic in them It’s just literally a mechanical button
⏹️ ▶️ John with a spring underneath it that has a lot of travel and you push it halfway through the travel And it’s a very natural thing to do
⏹️ ▶️ John But I haven’t at least I haven’t owned a camera that has tried to do that with the help of haptics or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m very curious to try this button because You know, it’s it’s the big
⏹️ ▶️ John deal. This is the big feature on this phone I think this is much more significant than the action button, which was simply just another
⏹️ ▶️ John button that you can press This is another button that you can press that’s very big.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s also touch sensitive that has haptic feedback
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah I think that so the camera control and this literally like they kept calling it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera control or the camera control It seems like this is a kind of loosey-goosey name whether
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it includes the or not whether you’re supposed to capitalize it But yeah, it’s the camera control anyway
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s better than these airpods At least it has a name Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so this button I think this is great. I think this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s interesting is that if you look at the rest of the phones updates There’s, they’re mostly,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, software and incremental improvements.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The camera control is the update for the iPhone 16 series. Like this is-
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And the action button,
⏹️ ▶️ John because remember it got both in one update. Last time, depending, you didn’t have anything. This time it gets the action
⏹️ ▶️ John button and also the capture button or the camera control thing. So this is just a great
⏹️ ▶️ John year for the 16. They look great. They rearranged the cameras. They got all the features. They have a good SoC
⏹️ ▶️ John tailored to it. Good year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s true, yeah, sorry, I jumped ahead to the pro. But yeah, because they both have the camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco control, which is great. And it looks like, so what’s interesting about the camera control is that it has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all these different modes. It isn’t just another action button. It has much more input potential than that. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has the concept of like a light press, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks like it’s kind of like a touch ID button where it has that metal ring around the end. And so it can sense
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you’re just touching it. they also said that it appears to use optical sensing from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco below to see like where your finger is on it and maybe how much contact it’s making, like how hard you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pressing. So what you have is you have soft touch gestures and then you have a push in gesture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you also have swipe gestures. And so what they’ve done with this is all sorts of fun
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new controls that I think will actually be somewhat intuitive. So one that we skipped over is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco visual intelligence where it’s like the humane pin thing of like, what am I looking at? you know, what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this and do something with it. And that is, you just hold it down.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that actually makes sense because visual intelligence is like Siri in a way, and it’s below
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Siri button. And it’s like, okay, you hold down the sleep-wake button for Siri,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and now you hold down the button below it for visual Siri. Like, I think that actually makes sense.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then of course, you know, the camera, like, you know, click to launch, click again to capture. While you’re in the camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode, you can use the swipy gestures and the light touches to control different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera settings, zoom, stuff like that. That I think is gonna be pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. We will talk about case implications in overtime
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, that’s gonna be rough.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But other than that, we’ll get to that in overtime. But I think this is gonna be a fun new input.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think it’s going to be like, I absolutely must have this right now because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of those functions are available in the UI on the screen. but it will be easier and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better in certain ways. You know, one way for instance that it will be better, besides the fact that you don’t have to like, you know, reach
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that button at certain angles and stuff, one angle you don’t have to reach it in is if you’re trying to use the back camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to take a picture of yourself. You don’t have to like reach your finger around and guess or try to hit the volume
⏹️ ▶️ Marco button where you’re like reaching your hand around in a weird way. Like, it will make that a lot easier. Oh, that’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really good point. Yeah, and there’s a whole bunch of context like that where like the camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco control, I think will just make life a little bit nicer in a lot of different occasions.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I think it’s gonna be a really big deal. And again, it’s on both iPhones.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s gonna be a really big deal. The only thing that I’ve seen some people say, like, is this gonna be the future of input
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all apps? Not for the foreseeable future, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while there is an API for it, which I think is great to have a day one API
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for third-party camera apps to have all those same controls, that’s great. Problem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that API only works if the app is in the foreground and running
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a an AV capture session, which means only camera apps basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while the camera is open are going to be able to use it. So like I couldn’t, for instance,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it to offer, say, like a speed control for overcast. Like I can’t, it will not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco work for that because I don’t have an active capture session.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you could do a thing where you open a session somewhere off in the background, like they used to play silence to get
⏹️ ▶️ John access to APIs, and then you get rejected by App Review.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, also I don’t think that works in the background, but yeah, that would definitely get rejected. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple has restricted the use of that to only apps that are performing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco capture in the foreground. So I don’t expect to see most apps use that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for anything really, because you kind of can’t. But even if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s only ever used in camera apps, even if you only ever use it in Apple’s built-in camera app, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that’s gonna be really great. And again, it’s not gonna be like massively
⏹️ ▶️ Marco life-changing, but it’s gonna be a nice quality of life improvement. So that I think is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the feature for this year’s iPhones is, you know, besides, you know, Apple intelligence, we’ll see how that works,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it actually comes out, what’s how good it is, you know, but for right now, the camera control
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the feature this year.
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s on both the regular and the pro. I do worry a little bit about how much stuff they put
⏹️ ▶️ John into the camera control because I can kind of imagine a regular person getting into one of those modes where they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John swiping through like exposure and zoom and stuff and not understanding where they
⏹️ ▶️ John are and they just wanna take a picture. So one of the things I’m gonna test when I get it is like, can you get yourself
⏹️ ▶️ John accidentally into one of those things where you’re messing with controls when really you just wanted to take a picture and then get
⏹️ ▶️ John out of it by essentially saying, I’m just gonna press this button real hard and I wanted to take a picture now. I hope it will I hope it’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John say like all right forget about all those menus forget about You changing your depth of field or zoom or
⏹️ ▶️ John exposure you press real hard I just stop everything and say that means take picture so take
⏹️ ▶️ John a picture Because honestly they added so much to this to this one button
⏹️ ▶️ John like on day one that I worry that it might be too much Especially if it’s possible
⏹️ ▶️ John to get it into a mode or whatever But we’ll all try it when we get them and see how it is There’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a pretty good series of short videos on Apple’s website for the iPhone 16. I don’t think I can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey link specifically this section, but they have what effectively amounts to a tutorial, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey four very, very brief videos that are three or four seconds each that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey show how it works. And it does make sense having never used it, and I think I’ll adjust fairly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quickly, but I agree with what you’re saying. Also, if you look at the keynote at 58 minutes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and about 18 seconds on the YouTube version keynote, they show that cutaway we were talking about earlier.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And to my eyes, they are very clearly showing this thing depressing a little bit. So I do think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it moves, as Marco had said.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I thought the same thing until I saw 50% of the reviewers who held them in their hands saying, well, the button doesn’t actually move.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I mean, we’ll see, but I’m fairly confident. Um, so anyways, so yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I am super excited about the camera control. I think it’s going to be really great. Is it the sort of thing where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I must have this and, you know, any other iPhone that’s ever existed is trash? No, of course not,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I think it does look really slick. And I love, like Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, that there is what appears to be pretty robust third-party API or APIs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for third-party use available day one. I’m very excited about that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think the only other thing with the 16 non-pro is that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’ve announced that there is now 25 watt MagSafe charging with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an updated charger. She too can do, I think, 15 watts, if I’m not mistaken.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And their bespoke MagSafe chargers can now do 25 watts with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey these new phones, if you also get a brand new MagSafe charger, which is pretty slick. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John Then they also update the cameras as well? Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty substantially actually.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh, I’m sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry, I totally skipped over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, the non-pro iPhone 16 now has 48 megapixels on the main
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensor. It’s not the same camera. It’s not the same lenses or sensor as the Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John it the same as the 15 Pro though? That’s what wasn’t clear to me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, the pixels are not as big and the lens is 26 millimeter versus 24. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does not have the same specs as the 15 Pro or the 16 Pro 1X camera.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, it’s a step up from the 15 for sure. Yeah, so yeah, they brought the pixel binning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trick where the 12 megapixel sensor becomes 48 if you ignore color divisions and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco temporarily figure stuff out. So it, it, it, they brought over that trick
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to increase resolution and the processing that goes with that. They also, a bigger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco jump should be the new ultra wide now has variable focus, macro
⏹️ ▶️ Marco capability, larger aperture, bigger pixels. So the ultra wide has taken a significant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco step up for the non-pro phone and that, and the new arrangement of the sensors
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now allows it to take spatial video. And interestingly, both phones now get the ability to capture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco spatial photos, which for some reason, the 15 could not do,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 15 Pro could not do spatial photos. It could only do spatial video. Now, both of these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can do spatial photos as well. Oh, one other thing, when we were still in the 16 section,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they briefly talked about emergency SOS and all the satellite features.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They talked about how they are expanding the satellite capability to more countries. they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have just totally not mentioned SOS pricing over time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe, aren’t we now to the point, aren’t we now at the two year mark when, or is it just one
⏹️ ▶️ John year? I think they extended it. Didn’t we have a follow-up item a while ago where it’s like, oh, they extended the free thing to
⏹️ ▶️ John be even longer? Like they’re just pushing it off.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think the answer is for most of this stuff, they’re probably just never going to charge
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because as we talked about last time, like if somebody is like stuck in a mountain and dies because they didn’t buy their iCloud
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Plus, whatever for satellite connectivity, like that’s not good and Apple knows that. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it seems like they’re probably just never going to charge for this, but they haven’t had the, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the data or whatever to be able to commit to that yet. So we’ll see how that goes. But anyway, yeah, emergency SOS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Find My is expanding in its coverage area. Great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that is good. All right, iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Max. This
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was Greg Joswiak at night for whatever reason, that suddenly became nighttime when we did this section. 6.3 and 6.9 inches,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nice. The smallest bezel ever,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or some people like to pronounce it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love, by the way, the way that Jaws phrased this. He said, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the even larger screens, quote, we did this while minimizing product growth.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s his euphemism for the phone, we didn’t make the phones bigger. Well, rather we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco did, we minimized how much bigger they got. So now we’ve learned, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, over time, we occasionally pick up little appleisms. You know, every company has corporate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco speak and custom corporate vocabulary that drives outside people nuts when they hear it. And, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we hear a couple, like sometimes the leak out into public communications. You know, we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco could tell that, obviously, around the forestall era, using the term blow
⏹️ ▶️ Marco away as an adjective would seem to be one of the… Still happening. That’s one of those things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that infected the company back then and still going. So you hear about, you hear certain Apple-isms
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will occasionally leak out. And now we know minimizing product growth,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is not about sales of a product, which sounds like a bad thing. No, it’s minimizing product growth, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco minimizing the amount that we make the iPhone bigger, which we’ve tried to fit this bigger screen in. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks, Jaws. That’s a fun one.
⏹️ ▶️ John They took the previous phone and they made a tiny bit bigger screen
⏹️ ▶️ John and then shrunk all the phone in around it. They minimized in bigening. There, use that one, Apple. And
⏹️ ▶️ John so, I mean, I don’t actually want the Pro phone to get any bigger, the non-Max Pro phone
⏹️ ▶️ John to get any bigger. I was kind of annoyed when I think my current one, my 14 Pro, was bigger than the previous Pro phone that it
⏹️ ▶️ John replaced by a little bit. If this continues, we get a carflation situation where you wake up
⏹️ ▶️ John one day and your non-max pro phone is like 17 inches or something, like we need to draw
⏹️ ▶️ John the line somewhere. But the increase is very, very tight.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think we are already seeing phoneflation over the last few years. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at, you know, like the size of the current, like, you know, quote normal size phone,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is, I mean, now there’s no more mini, I guess, these are the smallest phones Apple’s making. the size of the quote
⏹️ ▶️ Marco small phone in Apple’s lineup is probably the size of the iPhone 6 Plus if I had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to guess, right? I mean, if somebody will do the math on that. But like- We’re getting close. It’s certainly heavier and thicker. It’s much heavier,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? Yeah, like, it’s like the, you know, phoneflation and sizing has already been happening.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is not a new thing. And it isn’t a question of whether it’s happening. It’s absolutely happening.
⏹️ ▶️ John I was like, they’ve done it for what? Five years now, at least with the regular size phone. They’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John been slowly, slowly creeping up. I guess since the seven is when it really started, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John The six and the seven, like that was like, okay, this is the size of the phone. And then they said, you know what? From now on every year,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just gonna get a little bit bigger. And they do it by such a tiny amount. And you’re like, ah, I can tolerate it. I remember going from the
⏹️ ▶️ John seven to whatever I replaced it with. Maybe it was the 10 or whatever. Like, it’s like, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John well, the seven was kind of small now that I look at it. So it can get a little bit bigger. And then the next
⏹️ ▶️ John one I got was a little bit bigger too. I’m like, oh, do they have to make it bigger again? I guess it’s okay. And now I’m like, all right, please.
⏹️ ▶️ John You gotta like lay off a little bit. So we’ll see when the phone arrives. I absorb the size
⏹️ ▶️ John difference in the 14 Pro and I’ve essentially accepted it. Maybe I’ll accept this
⏹️ ▶️ John change too. It is a smaller difference, but I’ll have both phones for some period of time so I can hold
⏹️ ▶️ John them up to each other and see what the difference is. I do think this may be pushing up against
⏹️ ▶️ John limits. But what am I gonna do? There’s no Mini for me to buy and I wouldn’t wanna buy it anyway. And
⏹️ ▶️ John as much as I love the 16, that 5X camera is getting me on the Pro if you’re wondering why you’re buying the
⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, do you really need that Pro processor or whatever? We’ll talk about that in a minute. No, probably not, but I do really want
⏹️ ▶️ John those three cameras because I use my phone as a camera a lot and I’ve been coveting that 5X and this is the year.
⏹️ ▶️ John But we should talk about the weight. Poor Marco, he’s lifting all these weights, he’s working out, but the extra grams they added on these
⏹️ ▶️ John phones, I don’t know if he’s gonna be able to take it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Remember how nice it was last year, one year ago when the 15 Pro came out
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it had saved some weight and we were all talking about how nice those phones felt compared to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bricks of the previous ones, we’ve now lost about half that gain.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it’s like dieting, you know? A lot of the weight comes back.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s literally what happens. And what happened.
⏹️ ▶️ John Here’s the numbers on the things. The 14 Pro was 206 grams. 15 Pro, 188. Look at that. What a great diet. 206 to 188.
⏹️ ▶️ John 16 Pro, 199. So it’s not pushing back into
⏹️ ▶️ John the 200s. It’s not as heavy as the 14 Pro was, but it has gained some back. And then the Pro
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Max. More than half. The 14 Pro Max
⏹️ ▶️ John was 240. The 15 Pro Max was 221, 16 Pro Max, 227, barely moved.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that the Pro Max did a good job maintaining, but yeah, the regular Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I do wonder where that weight has gone. I don’t think it’s that graphite sheet that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John really making the difference, right? But you know, bigger battery, that’s another thing. Like Apple, that’s another weird
⏹️ ▶️ John thing about like, with Apple’s lack of numbers and stuff. I think based on seeing
⏹️ ▶️ John the insides of these phones and all the rumors, that these, all these phones, all the 16 and 16 Pro,
⏹️ ▶️ John they all have a slightly bigger battery, although 16 Pro Max is up for grabs based on the rumors that
⏹️ ▶️ John we talked about ages ago, right? But Apple didn’t really brag about the battery life. If you look on their site, they’ll say, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John you get an extra two hours of video time and so on and so forth, but in the presentation, there was no graphs, no numbers, not even
⏹️ ▶️ John a Bezos chart saying, they did say the Pro Max is best battery life ever, or whatever, but like,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m holding out hope that part of the weight and size gain on the 16
⏹️ ▶️ John Pro that I’m going to buy is the bigger battery because the logic board thing and everything
⏹️ ▶️ John else in there is shrinking over time to make more and more room for larger, now mostly
⏹️ ▶️ John L-shaped batteries. So I’m hoping that’s a benefit and I’m kind of surprised Apple didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, they did say the batteries are both larger. They just didn’t say how much larger.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right, they just didn’t say capacity-wise. The iPhone 16 is 170 grams. So again, 16 Pro, 199, plain old 16, 170.
⏹️ ▶️ John If you want a light phone, Get the one that has one fewer camera and is smaller and is made of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And much better colors. This is still made of titanium, grade five titanium,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which John, tell me, grade five must mean it’s like one of the best grades, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Five, is five the top grade? Is five the highest number? Dr. Drang tooted
⏹️ ▶️ John with a list of 37 grades of titanium. So, and I don’t think there’s an
⏹️ ▶️ John order, like two is better than one, you know, like I don’t think they get better as the number goes up.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can look at it yourself. It’s basically just like how much nickel, how much, you know, aluminum, how much, like
⏹️ ▶️ John just, it’s basically just what are the allies? What are the combinations of materials? I don’t know how they come up with these things,
⏹️ ▶️ John but anyway, there’s at least 37 of them if you want to see. And then you find out what grade five is 6% aluminum, 4% vanadium.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good to know. Uh, with regard to cooling quote, iPhone 16 pro maximizes thermal capacity with a new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey machine chassis made of 100% recycled aluminum, which is bonded to the titanium frame
⏹️ ▶️ Casey using solid state diffusion. It’s combined with a graphite clad aluminum substructure, creating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an innovative architecture that enables up to 20% improvement in sustained performance.
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco just read that earlier, but you can read it again. That’s fine. Hey, graphite sheet. Hey,
⏹️ ▶️ John every year they said it’s going to happen. No vapor chamber yet, but this was the year. Graphite sheet,
⏹️ ▶️ John improve cooling. They’re doing something. Like I said, they did something on the 16 and they did something even more
⏹️ ▶️ John on the 16 pro. We’ll see how it works out, but it’s good to see them Addressing this year
⏹️ ▶️ John over year every year. They’re making a new phone They’re trying to make it a little bit better addressing the flaws in the previous model
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mm-hmm colors black white neutral and drumroll, please Desert
⏹️ ▶️ John rumors even nailed the name I gotta give props on that because it’s so hard to get these names cuz it’s marketing,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know Like the supply chain doesn’t need to know the name, but I guess it gets printed on the packaging at some point So yeah, they nailed
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Desert Titanium is the brown. And I have to say, looking at both Apple’s product shots and all
⏹️ ▶️ John the videos of the hands-on area, it does not look brown. So that spy shot we have where it looked
⏹️ ▶️ John like brown, brown, brown, obviously different lighting colors look different or whatever. Desert
⏹️ ▶️ John Titanium, like all the pro phones, looks so pale that you’re like, is that the
⏹️ ▶️ John Is that the gray one? Like you have to look at the rim around like the edge of the phone or
⏹️ ▶️ John the little circles around the cameras to even tell that it’s supposed to be the brown one. They all look white, except
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Yeah, it’s gray, more gray, less gray and brown. But anyways,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s talk about the A18 Pro, which is the chip for the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone’s 16 Pro. This is a 20% GPU, a faster GPU
⏹️ ▶️ Casey than the A17 Pro. It’s two times faster at ray tracing than the A17 Pro. CPU
⏹️ ▶️ Casey broadly is 15% faster and uses 20% less power than the A17 Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It has larger caches versus the A18 non-pro. It has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey programmable ML accelerators, which is very fancy. Advanced media features, a new video
⏹️ ▶️ Casey encoder, and an image signal processor.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so at this point in the presentation, the question everybody had, and I had as well, was even though they’re listing
⏹️ ▶️ John all this stuff, I’m like, well, wait a second. So we got two new chips this year, A18 and A18 Pro, Neither
⏹️ ▶️ John one of which has been in a phone before. All built on TSMC’s M3E process.
⏹️ ▶️ John The question was, especially when they said like 6-core GPU vs 5-core GPU or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John are the A18 Pros just versions of the
⏹️ ▶️ John A18 where all the parts work? And I think eventually in the presentation Apple made it clear
⏹️ ▶️ John that is not the case. They obviously share a ton, but the A18
⏹️ ▶️ John is not just the A18 Pro with parts that don’t work, as far as anyone has been able to tell. Now, maybe when they
⏹️ ▶️ John cut these things open, we’ll see. I guess it’s conceivable they could be, but there are enough
⏹️ ▶️ John differences that I think that can’t possibly be true.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, so they said that the A18 Pro has larger caches.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I don’t know what the structure is. Like, is the cache like a separate layer? Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not the thing that puts it over the edge. So here, let me list the differences. What does the A18 Pro have over
⏹️ ▶️ John the A18? On the CPU side, it’s got, yes, larger caches. And there you can go, okay, well, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just like some of the cache RAM is turned off or whatever. Probably not the way it does because the quote
⏹️ ▶️ John unquote, you know, SRAM that’s on the SoCs is very expensive and complicated and that’s not the, they usually
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t disable portions of it, but whatever. Next generation ML accelerators, we talked about this before. These are
⏹️ ▶️ John instructions, like ARM instructions for doing media type things, that they’re saying
⏹️ ▶️ John are only on the A18 Pro. Instructions, the ability to execute instructions, the execution
⏹️ ▶️ John units for them, the ability to decode and execute those instructions is not a thing that you tend to
⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, it didn’t, some part of the CPU didn’t work, so we’ll just disable those instructions. Like it’s not a separate
⏹️ ▶️ John unit, this is part of the CPU. This makes me think the CPU cores are literally different between
⏹️ ▶️ John the A18 Pro and A18. Now again, you could have them just disabled in software, and
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, in like firmware or whatever, just like blow some fuses or whatever, that is technically possible. I’m not saying it’s technically
⏹️ ▶️ John impossible, but I don’t think it’s anything that Apple has ever done. And then the GPU,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is what was making people suspect things, six core instead of five core. Oh, it’s easy just when one of the GPU cores is bad or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John But then we get to this whole section, which is ProRes video encoding, new image signal processor,
⏹️ ▶️ John and USB 3. That’s a lot of chip real estate to be shipping in the A18 just turned
⏹️ ▶️ John off, because the 18 has none of those things, right? It, you know, and because they’re pro features.
⏹️ ▶️ John If this is really the same chip with huge sections of it turned off and special features
⏹️ ▶️ John that disable parts of the SRAM caches on the chip and also disable the ML acceleration instructions,
⏹️ ▶️ John even though they work perfectly fine, because I don’t think that’s the type of thing where you get bad yields and you can, you get them turned off,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? I think these are two different chips that because of all this stuff there, if it
⏹️ ▶️ John was just one or two of these things, you could think about it because there’s so much, These are two different chips. We’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John find out when someone gets them slices off the top and looks at a picture of them, you’ll be able to see, because this is stuff you can see,
⏹️ ▶️ John like the ProRes video encoder, the image signal processor, and the USB 3 thing. You’ll be able to see where they are.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s enough real estate where you’ll be able to say, are these blocks on the A18, or are they only on the
⏹️ ▶️ John A18 Pro? Either way, well, you know, we’ll find out. But I have to say, like, the differentiation of like, what
⏹️ ▶️ John makes this a Pro chip versus non-Pro chip, I think they did it exactly right. Because if you look at these features, and you’re like, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John care about any of these, that shows that you don’t care about the pro features. ProRes video, like a lot of them have been using it as a
⏹️ ▶️ John video camera. ProRes video, the faster speeds, yes, it’s a shame that the 16 still has incredibly slow speeds
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. Hopefully that will come to the 16 eventually, but like, they put
⏹️ ▶️ John pro features on here. And yes, you know, if you want the fastest game performance, you have to get the pro phone, yada, yada, what else is new, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John By the way, we didn’t talk about this before, but one continuing disappointing status
⏹️ ▶️ John quo is that the non-pro phone still does not have ProMotion, which is probably already criminal
⏹️ ▶️ John and will get increasingly so as time moves on. I know regular people don’t care about 60
⏹️ ▶️ John Hertz versus 120 Hertz, but eventually you just have to give it to them because it’s like the baseline,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s table stakes. It’s an $800 phone with a 60 Hertz screen.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s bad. But yeah, ProRes video encoding, nobody cares if that’s missing.
⏹️ ▶️ John The faster USB speeds, people are not copying huge video files
⏹️ ▶️ John via wire to SSDs off of their plain old iPhone 16s. That’s what a pro phone is for.
⏹️ ▶️ John And kudos to Apple, like, they’re pro and non-pro phones. You look at
⏹️ ▶️ John them and you’re like, they’re exactly the same, except for this one has three cameras. Why would I ever get a pro one? And they give you a bunch of reasons.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if those reasons don’t appeal to you, it’s because you’re not in the market for a pro phone. So I think they managed
⏹️ ▶️ John to differentiate it despite the fact that the camera control and the action button
⏹️ ▶️ John are not exclusive to the pro phone. The hardware features, with the exception of that third camera, are not exclusive
⏹️ ▶️ John to the Pro phone, and yet the Pro phone still looks very much like a Pro thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Let’s talk photography. There’s a 48 megapixel Fusion
⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera at f1.78. It’s a second gen.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what’s interesting about this lens and everything, it sounds like the sensor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the optics are the same as the 15 Pro. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not the same. Well, with one exception, with the readout speed. So they called a second
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gen quad pixel sensor. It sounds like the main and possibly only difference
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is faster readout, which has benefits, but it’s the same pixel size. It’s the same
⏹️ ▶️ Marco aperture. And as the 15 Pro and the 14 Pro, same
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens, it seems. And so just the sensor, the 15 Pro added the quad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pixel binning thing over the 14 Pro. And now the 16 Pro is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco making faster readouts on that. So this is a good camera, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re really not seeing massive year over year camera differences anymore the way we
⏹️ ▶️ John The 14 Pro also had the binning, pixel binning.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it did? Okay, then we’re seeing even less difference.
⏹️ ▶️ John no, the 2X readout is significant though. Like the 2X readout is basically, that’s a new sensor, you know, and
⏹️ ▶️ John you may think, well, why does the readout is part of the sensor? How fast can you get the data off of that? It’s all big one- Of course. Big sandwich
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. And that makes a big difference because a lot of the features that are upgrades this year, to be able to do 4k 120 and
⏹️ ▶️ John everything is because of the faster readout or even just something as simple as when you take a raw
⏹️ ▶️ John how long is it before you can use your phone to take another picture you have to wait for the readout
⏹️ ▶️ John to go by they don’t have huge buffers like they do on big fancy cameras for you able to lean on the button and get
⏹️ ▶️ John you know 30 frames per second or you know a hundred frames per second or whatever and raws
⏹️ ▶️ John on the phones when you take a raw it’s like it thinks about it for half a second or whatever two times faster readout
⏹️ ▶️ John is a big improvement to the ability to take a raw and then quickly take another raw.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So additionally the ultra-wide is now also 48 megapixel which is a new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey development is it not?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes so that is brand new the the ultra-wide has a substantial upgrade in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco its quality and sensor it is it is not the same like you know giant sensor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and big optics as the 1x camera it never has been and and probably never can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be because of things like physics, but it is a substantial upgrade, which should be good, especially for things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like spatial video capture, which uses both of those sensors. So it should be pretty good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. So there’s also the 5X telephoto
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is still 12 megapixels, but guess what, baby? It’s on the regular size phone now,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which means as far as I’m concerned, unless something weird happens in the next two days before I do a pre-order,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m coming back, baby. I’m going back to the regular size phone, no more huge phone for me.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey surprised to hear that. Yeah, I know. I mean, I honestly, I was thinking about it. I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could do big phone again, but the thing that drives me nuts about this phone, which I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey love the screen real estate, I really do. Once I committed to the absolutely preposterous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pop socket lifestyle, it got fairly comfortable to hold. The problem though,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that for my hands, I can’t go all the way across the phone and use it one-handed.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I use my phone one-handed fairly frequently. And so that’s what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey drove me nuts about it. And if I had bigger hands, I would perhaps stick with the big phone,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but yeah, I’m gonna be going back to the regular size this year, because the whole reason I went to the big one was for the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey 5X, which was exclusive to it in the 15. But now in the 16, you can get the Tetra Prism in both phones.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I will be going back, crawling back to the regular size phone. Anyways, later this year,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’ll be updated with a two-phase shutter. Marco, what the hell does that mean?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, what the hell does that mean?
⏹️ ▶️ John I think this is an instance where it’s just like a software thing that wasn’t ready, like so much
⏹️ ▶️ John of iOS 18 software features. I think that what they’re trying to say is like the,
⏹️ ▶️ John like using the shutter button to like press
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and press like that. So
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like, obviously the camera control can do that, but it’s a question of, is there software support
⏹️ ▶️ John for it? And I do wonder if it’s a situation where they didn’t have, they didn’t get the software ready enough unless
⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t want to release it in a state where there could potentially be accidental input or it wasn’t clear where the half press was
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, like, again, I’m not sure how that’s gonna work. It’s tricky for some people even with big camera buttons that have relatively
⏹️ ▶️ John huge amounts of travel and the amount of travel that the camera control seems to have is much, much smaller than the
⏹️ ▶️ John amount of travel the giant shutter button on a real camera has. So maybe they’re still working on that, but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, add that to the giant pile of things that are not ready on day one launch of this phone, software wise.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can change the photographic styles after capture, which is a new development.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think that’s mostly software, but nevertheless, it’s a new thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s a little bit of a hardware thing too, because like the photographic styles is essentially like
⏹️ ▶️ John filters or whatever. And if you used to be able to pick them and you’d apply them when you took the picture. So if you chose like a
⏹️ ▶️ John black and white style and you took a picture, you got a black and white picture, right? And if you change your mind later and said, oh, I shouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have taken that picture in black and white, tough luck. that was applied when you took the picture, it threw away all the color information.
⏹️ ▶️ John Now what they’re doing is kind of like what you can do when you take a RAW where it just saves
⏹️ ▶️ John the sensor data and you can have different interpretations of it, right? But RAWs are huge, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John So what they’re doing is they’ll let you take the picture, pick a photographic style, but after you take the shot, you can
⏹️ ▶️ John pick a different photographic style or you can remove the photographic style entirely or whatever, and the way they’re doing this, they
⏹️ ▶️ John have vague descriptions of like, how could they possibly be doing this if they’re not capturing RAW? Like how are
⏹️ ▶️ John they getting back sensor information that they’ve already made a decision about? My vague understanding
⏹️ ▶️ John from seeing people who have talked to Apple about this is they’re essentially storing more
⏹️ ▶️ John layers of information, essentially like tone maps of like, okay, well, here’s the thing that we
⏹️ ▶️ John captured, sort of the baseline picture, you know, heek or whatever. Here are five other
⏹️ ▶️ John things we measured, this part of tonality, or like the things that the filters are going to affect, they save them as separate
⏹️ ▶️ John maps, probably also massively compressed. And so then later, they can apply the filters
⏹️ ▶️ John by taking the original photo and one or more of those sort of tone maps that they captured,
⏹️ ▶️ John combining them, decompressing them into the full array of pixels, running
⏹️ ▶️ John the filter over them, recompressing the output, and saving that, or something like that. And so it is kind of like,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not compressed raw, which is another thing. You just take a raw, but compress it, right? This is kind of like
⏹️ ▶️ John lossy compressed raw with more layers saved during capture so that you can apply more interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John filters after the fact, it’s a hell of a long way to go for a feature that I’ve never
⏹️ ▶️ John found appealing in any way whatsoever. But maybe regular people love to apply
⏹️ ▶️ John these filters to their pictures and now it doesn’t force you to, and I’m glad, it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John force you to decide up front what filter you’re going to apply and then regret it later when you say, why do all the pictures
⏹️ ▶️ John in this year look like crayons? And it’s because, oh, that was the time that I decided to pick a photographic
⏹️ ▶️ John style and apply it to every single picture I took for a year and it was a terrible mistake. I bet a lot of people feel that way about a lot of their early
⏹️ ▶️ John Instagram pictures, right? You know me, it’s one of the reasons I love Apple photos. Save the original picture
⏹️ ▶️ John and then edit to your heart’s content, but there’s gotta always be a button that says revert to original. Do not destroy
⏹️ ▶️ John the original. It’s like your negatives, right? Edit, modify, filter, crop, do whatever you want,
⏹️ ▶️ John non-destructively. Kind of like Aperture used to back in the day. And so that’s what they’re doing here. They’re giving you
⏹️ ▶️ John increased non-destructive editing abilities without requiring you to save gigantic raw photos every single
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is great. Because raw, like, there’s a few reasons why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco raw files are so much bigger than JPEGs or HEAKS, and now I guess JPEGXLs.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Part of it is that it’s saving a larger range of possible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco values compared to a JPEG, which is limited to a certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco visible range or whatever. So part of it is like, you know, we’re storing more precision,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more depth. But a big part of why RAWs are so big is that they are literally uncompressed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, so they are in some cases, totally uncompressed. In some cases,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco losslessly compressed, which is not that compressed. There’s a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of, I think, middle ground that we’re exploring now as an industry in terms of like, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco compress the image perceptually the way JPEG historically has has done like perceptual image compression. So it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is lossy compression, but just at a very high bit rate, so to speak. So we’re not losing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too much to people actually notice, but still try to save more range of values
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like less processed values. So that way we can do things like this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so what seems to be the case is whatever we’re doing with the photographic styles, they’re storing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more data like that so that you can do these things after the fact. And that is a great direction for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco photography to go Because raw files are great for what they are really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for, which is not your phone, and not most people using them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s for certain professional contexts, they’re great for that. But for most people,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something that has lossy compression, but that can store more ranges of values is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco potentially very useful.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, this is all very good. And by the way, this section was presented by Della Huff, who I feel like I’d recognized
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from somewhere, I couldn’t figure out where it was. And like two years ago on Analog, we had solicited good Instagram
⏹️ ▶️ Casey follows and she was one of the people that somebody had recommended. And sure enough, I’ve been following her on Instagram for years,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey had no idea that she was this person at Apple. So that’s super cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’ll put a link in the show notes, really great Instagram follow. So anyway, so with regard
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to photos, you made brief mention of it a minute ago, Marco, iPhone 16 Pro supports JPEG XL.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All of, this is reading from Mac Rumors now, the iPhone 16 Pro models will support the JPEG XL file format according to code
⏹️ ▶️ Casey found in iOS 18. Apple did not mention JPEG XL support during the event
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on Monday, but this feature was rumored ahead of the launch. It appears that the Pro models will support
⏹️ ▶️ Casey capturing images in JPEG XL.
⏹️ ▶️ John So this is MacRumor saying, we see the code, it’s in iOS 18, it’s definitely coming. No mention
⏹️ ▶️ John from Apple, none whatsoever. When they rolled out Heek, they made kind of a big deal about it and talked about
⏹️ ▶️ John it and said, this is gonna be a better image format and our photos are gonna take it by default or whatever. and JPEG XL absolutely
⏹️ ▶️ John did not get that treatment. We will find out if there’s JPEG XL anywhere on these phones, even if the code is an iOS 18,
⏹️ ▶️ John will it appear in the UI? Will it be turned on by default? Will it be anything at all?
⏹️ ▶️ John The JPEG XL hype was high in my heart and it
⏹️ ▶️ John did not get fulfilled in this event, which is a bummer. But hey, you never know, like again, this was
⏹️ ▶️ John a weird event. Maybe it’s just too techie for them to mention. Maybe in today’s Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t have mentioned the Heek thing either. So that’s one of the things I’ll be checking for as iOS 18 rolls out and as iOS 18.1 and
⏹️ ▶️ John .2 and so on and so forth, I’m looking for the JPEG XL sweetness. But
⏹️ ▶️ John right now it’s not looking great. Indeed.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For video, there’s 4K at 120 frames per second with HDR, which they’re calling cinematic slow
⏹️ ▶️ Casey motion, which had a very cheesy but kind of funny little like advertisement
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the middle of this 90 minute advertisement. And you can also adjust the playback
⏹️ ▶️ Casey speed after capture, which is pretty neat. With regards to audio, there are four studio quality,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote unquote, microphones with a lower noise floor. You can now also, for the first time, do spatial
⏹️ ▶️ Casey audio capture during video recording. You can do audio mix in voice memos.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I believe that’s the right marketing term, where basically, let’s say if you had musical talent, which I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t, and you hummed a rhythm or a beat or something like that, you could then put
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a second track on top of it, and then you could sing the lyrics, and you can separate the two
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of them. And it’ll play back your rhythm as you’re singing the lyrics, but you can separate them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so that you can hear only the lyrics. I don’t know anything about creating music, but this looked super
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this looks amazing. Can we edit our podcasts and voice memos now? Yeah, probably.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, but if we all had very different talents than what we actually have, it could be pretty useful to us. No, this is all…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This looks great. A lot of musicians do use this for this kind of purpose. So this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s great. It’s amazing. They can do it. And I’m glad they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco working on improving things like the microphone array and different ML processes and stuff because that can often
⏹️ ▶️ Marco filter down to features or benefits that everyone can use even if they aren’t songwriters or movie makers or
⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t they make a dedicated app exactly for this? Yes. For musicians? Was it called
⏹️ ▶️ Marco music memos or music notes?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Something like that. I don’t know if it’s still
⏹️ ▶️ Casey active. I have this vague memory.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not. is just like, well, we’re going to can that app, but just grab that code and throw it into voice memos.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Basically, yeah. Because I think they realized that everyone was using voice memos for this anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey A handful of quick hits before we round everything out. $1,000 for the 128 gig Pro, $1,200 for the, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s 256 gig Pro Max, if I’m not mistaken.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pre-orders are this coming Friday. Pick up on the following Friday.
⏹️ ▶️ John I kind of wish that they took the non-max Pro up from 128. I know they’re trying to
⏹️ ▶️ John draw a distinction and get you to pay for the storage, I get it. But like, come on. Anyway, I, pfft.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not that 128 is that bad. And it’s not as bad as it is on a Max. I just, like, this is another one of those
⏹️ ▶️ John things where they’re just riding it out. It’s like, we love the distinction. Pro Max starts at 256, the plain
⏹️ ▶️ John old Pro, because it’s not Max, it starts at 128. Makes perfect sense to me. Love that money. Okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s been like five years of this, four years of this. It’s time to maybe bump that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. The iPhone 16 models, all the iPhone 16 models are equipped
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with eight gigs of RAM for Apple intelligence. Not that you would know by listening to Apple, but just FYI.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. Then I had a small victory dance just for me. The
⏹️ ▶️ Casey millimeter wave 5G is still limited to the US iPhone 16 models, but it’s still
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there. There was rumbling and rumors that they were gonna kill it in the iPhone 16, but oh no,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s still there. So reading from Mac rumors, all four iPhone 16 models offer millimeter wave 5G in the US,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but other countries are still limited to sub six gigahertz 5G. Apple hasn’t rolled out millimeter wave 5G in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey other countries because other countries largely have yet to widely adopt the faster speeds. There are millimeter
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wave networks in countries like Australia, China, and Japan, but it is not a standard that has been fully embraced.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In Australia, for example, millimeter wave is only available in select areas of major cities like Melbourne and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sydney. For me, my beloved, don’t call it a park bench picnic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey table, is right near a millimeter wave tower. And I actually went there today, although I didn’t use
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my millimeter wave iPhone 15 on it. But nevertheless,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is incredibly fast. I mean, I can pull like two and a half gigabits per second down
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to my cellular telephone, which is absolutely bananas. So I’m glad it’s still there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All the iPhone 16 models sold outside of the United States have a physical SIM card tray. I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s terribly surprising, but it’s a thing. American iPhone 16s do not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a SIM card just like the 15s didn’t. All of the iPhone 16 models
⏹️ ▶️ Casey support Wi-Fi 7, which will be excellent in three or four years when we all start getting Wi-Fi 7
⏹️ ▶️ Casey routers and access points.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I just want to say, like, to reiterate my point from the opening statement, oh, so they’re slightly improving
⏹️ ▶️ John the microphones on these phones. And oh, they get the the new version of Wi-Fi and oh the processor
⏹️ ▶️ John is a little bit better and the screens are a little bit bigger. Like don’t take this for granted
⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re they make a new one of these phones every year and they always try to make it a little bit better and
⏹️ ▶️ John that sounds boring to you and still it stops happening and you’re looking at Airpods you know
⏹️ ▶️ John Macs and then and you’re wondering if they’re ever going to get updated or you’re waiting for the next Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John Appreciate it. I appreciate it even more if you wait four or five years between phones because the advances
⏹️ ▶️ John accumulate. And then when you get this phone, you’re like, wow, this microphone is way better than it was five phones
⏹️ ▶️ John ago or whatever. Wi-Fi 7. And Apple’s not on top of these things. Everybody else in the industry is already
⏹️ ▶️ John on Wi-Fi 7. But in Apple land, they take their time and you are only going to get
⏹️ ▶️ John that update if they update the product. Right? So yes, they’re kind of late to Wi-Fi 7.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if there’s no new insert product name here, you’re not getting Wi-Fi 7 no matter what. So
⏹️ ▶️ John consider yourself lucky.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, the iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Max have the same feature
⏹️ ▶️ Casey set, excepting the display size and battery, which is exactly what I love to see.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of my favorite things, no joke, one of my favorite things is when there’s parity between the two devices to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the degree that there can be, and this year there is. And like we had talked about earlier, there’s also to the degree
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that there can be parity between the 16 and 16 Pro, which mostly amounts to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey chips and buttons. there is mostly parody to the degree that we would expect.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I’m really genuinely happy about that. And then finally, iOS 16, Mac OS 15, iPad OS 18,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and other updates will all be released on September 16th, four days before
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the new hardware’s here.
⏹️ ▶️ John Look at that, Mac OS getting released at the same time as the other OSs hasn’t happened in so long.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nice to see the whole family coming together. All the new OSs is gonna release at the same time.
⏹️ ▶️ John They did it through the magic of dropping features pushing them to the point once.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it is a almost Christmas miracle. So look at that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that, I think we’re good, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You want to talk about any orders or we’re just going to plow right through?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, sure. Sorry. So obviously, none of us have ordered anything yet because as we record, we’re two days ahead of time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John But we should
⏹️ ▶️ John all have our orders already ready in the store app. So we should know what we’re getting.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For me, I’m going to be doing a natural titanium half
⏹️ ▶️ Casey terabyte iPhone 16 Pro, not Max. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I haven’t actually figured out what we’re going to do for Erin, but probably the same thing, maybe a 256
⏹️ ▶️ Casey version for her. And that’s going to be our order. Marco, what are you guys doing?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to get the white one, the 256. And Tiff looked
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the upgrade and was like, I don’t need one. Good for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey her. Even with the camera stuff, I’m actually surprised by that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, because she’s already on the 15 Pro Max, she already has the 5X camera. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other cameras didn’t change enough for her to care. And she-
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was mostly, sorry, I was mostly thinking of the camera control. I did not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco phrase that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well. Right, and the camera control, like I described it to her and she’s like, eh, I don’t care. So, you know, maybe she’ll see
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mine and get envious at some point, but I think she honestly just doesn’t care. Like, again, like this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a, you know, if you have a fairly recent iPhone, this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not like a blow away update.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh gosh, why? Sorry. Why? Like this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s again, it’s a nice incremental update. And as John was saying, like over time, incremental updates
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do add up and it does become great. But if you have like a 14 or a 15 Pro
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’re looking at the 16 Pro, like it’s not that different. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re in the, from the 15 Pro, it’s almost not different at all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the exception of the camera control. The 14 Pro, at least you get like the USB-C and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lighter weight-ish, and you know, a few, like, you know, two generations of improvements in certain areas. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the 14 Pro to the 16 Pro, it’s a better upgrade. If you have a 15 Pro, the only
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason we’re doing this is because we’re idiots and podcasters. Like we shouldn’t, we shouldn’t be doing this. Like I even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost skipped this year.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m doing it like those people who like, aren’t allowed to buy individual stocks. So they have to get their investments on like a regimented
⏹️ ▶️ John plan that’s scheduled like years ahead of time that said on these dates, I’m gonna buy this much stock. Every two years I get
⏹️ ▶️ John a phone. That’s how it happens. And so, yeah, I’m not choosing based on the phone. Although I have to say,
⏹️ ▶️ John like I said before, having a product that gets attention every single year and gets improvements every single year,
⏹️ ▶️ John gives you the luxury, like I used to be able to do with 100 Accords, to sit back and say, oh, here’s the new
⏹️ ▶️ John X, here’s the new iPhone. Do I like it this year? Eh, I’ll wait till next year. Because you know what?
⏹️ ▶️ John There’ll be another one next year. Every year when they come out, they’re a little bit better and you could look at them and you could say,
⏹️ ▶️ John Am I feeling like I feel like I want one now? Do I want one now because there’s something particularly
⏹️ ▶️ John appealing to me? Do I want one now because my current phone feels old? The luxury of a product that gets
⏹️ ▶️ John better every single year without fail and is always good means you can just sit back like Tiff and say,
⏹️ ▶️ John do I think I’m gonna get one this year? I’ll wait till next year because there will be a next year unlike
⏹️ ▶️ John the HomePod or the Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the AirPods Max. Keep in mind also, the next year we have those rumors
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iPhone slim, which, you know, even if that might not be what everybody chooses, that’s certainly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be an interesting new thing to shake things up. So like, that’s something that’s interesting. And also like, you know, this year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, it’s, you know, the year of Apple intelligence. That’s great, but the beginning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the year of Apple intelligence, it’s not gonna actually be there. And Apple intelligence is being
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gradually started over the course of a large chunk of the year. Yeah, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll be lucky if it’s all rolled out by the end of the year.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right. not by the end of 2024,
⏹️ ▶️ John but by the end of the iPhone year, like next September, we should check and say, has everything that Apple talked about
⏹️ ▶️ John with Apple Intelligence actually been released yet?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, exactly. So if you’re thinking like, I’ve got to jump right now to get Apple Intelligence, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say you don’t, and you might want to wait until, like if Apple Intelligence
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is your main driver for upgrading, you might want to wait till next year, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of this year, most of those features probably won’t be available. And even if they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are, they’re probably not gonna, you know, they’re still gonna be like in, you know, a fairly beta-like status for most of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the year. And most of the excitement of Apple Intelligence is going to be, first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of all, if it works, it’s going to develop over time. It’s just gonna be like a multi-year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ramp up. It’s not gonna all come in the next few months. So honestly,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is a nice incremental upgrade, and if you want a new phone, get it. But if you’re saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I gotta get a new phone for Apple Intelligence. Like, you don’t need to rush on that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, agreed. And John, this is your year, baby. So what are you doing? Are you getting
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I ordered AirPods, as I said. I pre-ordered the AirPods. I was excited to do that, although their engraving feature
⏹️ ▶️ John was broken for like the first 10 minutes, frustrating me. But I pre-ordered my AirPods with noise canceling.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then for my phone, you know, I’m doing what I always do. I looked at the other stuff. I actually even considered
⏹️ ▶️ John the white one As we’ll talk about in overtime, the case situation is
⏹️ ▶️ John good. We’ll talk about it in overtime. But I did what I usually do, because
⏹️ ▶️ John in the end, I decided this is what I want. For reasons that I’ve stated before that probably aren’t important
⏹️ ▶️ John to other people or are important to me, I get the black phone. And it’s not because I like the color
⏹️ ▶️ John black so much. I think the white one looks nicer. It’s because I actually use my phone to
⏹️ ▶️ John watch video a lot. And I want the surround to be black. I don’t want
⏹️ ▶️ John white distracting me from the display in any way. And maybe you don’t care about that, but like there’s a reason
⏹️ ▶️ John televisions tend not to be white when you buy them. And I don’t want my phone to be white either. I want it to be all black and
⏹️ ▶️ John I have the bare bottom if I can, again, it’s the overtime. And I don’t want the bare bottom to be white sticking out of
⏹️ ▶️ John my case. So now I’m getting the black 16 Pro non-max.
⏹️ ▶️ John I actually bumped the storage this year. I’ve been 256 for a long time. I do not feel 256,
⏹️ ▶️ John but just like a month or two ago, I did have to delete a bunch of stuff because I was pressing up against 256.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, now it’s time. So not only did they get me on one storage upgrade bump of 128 to 256, they’re getting
⏹️ ▶️ John me on two. I’m buying it with 512, which pains me. It hurts me.
⏹️ ▶️ John It hurts my wallet. But I think it’s time for me
⏹️ ▶️ John to finally do that. So anyway, that’s it. That’s the phone I’m getting. I’m excited.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, thanks to our sponsor this week, Tailscale. Thanks to our members who support us directly. you can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco join us at atb.fm.com. And this week, where our overtime, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is our member only exclusive bonus topic that we do every week for members, as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mentioned, is about the iPhone 16 series case situation. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s some interesting issues there to talk about. So we’ll be talking about that in overtime. You can join to listen at atb.fm.com.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks everybody and we’ll talk to you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John any research, Margo and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can find
⏹️ ▶️ John the show notes at atp.fm And if you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John into Mastodon, you can follow them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, Anti-Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to Accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John Check podcasts so long
Goose & PHEVs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco As discussed in last week’s after show, where I was talking about some issues I was having
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Rivian and the even greater issues I was having getting it serviced,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mentioned that part of the reason I needed a car to go a long distance with fast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco charging is that I was going to a Goose concert. This is a jam band and kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very similar to Phish in certain ways, like it’s definitely the same genre as Phish, but of course they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are their own band with their own identity and their own style. but certainly the closest
⏹️ ▶️ Marco analog I would say is it’s closest to fish from what people would know. Anyway, so I was going to a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco concert upstate and hundreds of miles away, so it was a lot of driving. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do wanna talk about the concert and then I’ll talk about how I got there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, just as a, cause this is the first time I’d seen Goose in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco concert. I used the AirPods Pro as my earplugs, as I mentioned earlier, they did a fantastic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco job. again, even better than last year. No artifacting, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no imbalances, a flawless job. I was very happy using AirPods
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro as my concert earplugs. I really could not tell I was wearing them most of the time. It just sounded
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was a reasonable volume. Like it was great. I will say Goose as a band puts on a very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good show. And if you are into seeing Jam Band concerts, I would say definitely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go see Goose if you get a chance to. It is a little bit more, I’d say,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little more mainstream compatible than Phish.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Not a lot more,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mind you, it’s still a jam band. But they don’t go quite as far
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off the deep end for quite as long as Phish tends to do. So it’s a great show.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love, and I just, first of all, just on a personal level, for a long time,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I felt like Phish is like my only band and what the heck is gonna happen to my enjoyment of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco music when that band inevitably ends at some point in the future. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m very heartened to see that there’s more. Goose is now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that same genre doing a great job as well. And so it’s great to see there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more bands making the kind of music that I like. So anyway, great show.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They had especially an amazing and quite intense light show. My
⏹️ ▶️ Marco favorite thing, I strongly suggest one of the reasons to go see Goose in addition to their very good music,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they are a really visually interesting band. I think unintentionally so.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, you know, it’s a five-member band. The main lead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco singer and guitarist looks like, you know, your standard, like, you know, band
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lead singer. He’s like an attractive young guy who plays the guitar really well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and looks kind of scruffy, like exactly what you would expect, You know, he’s also a very good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco guitar player. He’s very good in the jams. I didn’t hear a single missed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco note the entire time. Like it was quite good. Next to the lead singer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this guy, Peter Ansbach. I don’t know most of the names, but I know Peter Ansbach as I follow him on Instagram.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco He looks like a cartoon character, like a happy cartoon character. You’ll see,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you see pictures of the band, the one who looks like a happy cartoon character, that’s Peter. He is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the nicest guy in the world, and he’s always smiling. Because he seemed like a genuinely, like just smiley,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy, positive person. Like he’s a super nice guy. And so you have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lead singer, like, you know, looking all cool. Then you have Peter looking like a cartoon, smiling character,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, playing keyboards on the side. Then in the back, you have two drummers.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco One of them is like, you know, the regular kind of drummer. The other one is like an accessories kind of drummer. He has like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, tambourines, shakers, and my favorite, a gong. Like, I love a band with a gong.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s always a good thing. Then you have the bass player.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The bass player looks like a cop from an 80s movie with like a long
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mullet and those big sunglasses. And he stays like perfectly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stoic and still and emotionless. And he’s a good bass player, like he’s playing very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well. But like, you have the entire rest of the band is these like characters. And like right behind the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bass player is the drummer. They just replaced their drummer a few months ago. He’s a new drummer to the band.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco He is working his butt off. So the entire time you’re seeing this amazing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new drummer who is just in constant motion, like he gets really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco physically into it. And to be a rock drummer, it’s hard enough. To be a jam
⏹️ ▶️ Marco band drummer, you’re doing that for 25 minutes straight. Like without a break, like you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing that for a long time. So like, you have this drummer who is just working his butt
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off, like really physical, just banging around for 25 minutes straight. And all around him is like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rainbow lights and smoke effects and like all, like there’s just chaos going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on back there. And in front of it is this bass player who looks like a cop just staring at you, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s just totally still as all this chaos happens behind him. It is an amazing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing to see. So anyway, it was a very, very good show. Strongly recommend going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see Goose Inconscious if you get a chance. All right, so how I got there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I mentioned, you know, my Rivian had problems with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fast charging on the highway. Like I couldn’t reliably fast charge without like rebooting the car and waiting and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it kept throwing errors. I’m gonna have problems. And I believe the two of you and certainly people in the chat
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and listeners suggested, why don’t I just rent a car for the trip? trip. And so I decided, you know what, since
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Rivian was being unreliable, I thought that’s a good idea. I’m going on a long trip. I’ll just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rent something. How bad could it be? Oh gosh, here we go.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I rented, I went to our local enterprise branch and of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco course on the website they list they have all these like fun sedans and everything. And of course then you get there and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they they have two SUVs and nothing else. Like, okay, I wish they would stop doing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. It’s literally false advertising.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, I’m not super happy with Enterprise Rent-A-Car right now. Because what they rented
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me with the advertisement of all these sedans they didn’t have and all these other fun cars they didn’t actually have, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I get there and they have two SUVs. One of them was a Jeep Wagoneer, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a bus. I’m pretty sure that the bus that brought my kid
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to school on the beach was smaller than that vehicle It’s a very large vehicle
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I didn’t want to pay that kind of premium So they offered me for the sedan rate that I actually reserved they offered me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the smaller SUV Which was a few years old Ford Escape
⏹️ ▶️ Marco plug-in hybrid This was my first time using a plug-in hybrid.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s not the right scenario for it
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think a few years old Ford Escape is really a good standard bearer for the current state
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of the technology. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not only that, but the plug-in hybrid is not great for doing a multi-hundred mile
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John drive. It’s fine if you have
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the modern ones, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s not it. But even still, the plug-in portion of it, the battery electric portion of it, will be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dead within 30 miles anyway, and you’re not likely to find a
⏹️ ▶️ John spot. Not with the new ones. I was describing last time, modern hybrid systems,
⏹️ ▶️ John you just drive and it’s fine and there’s nothing for you to worry about and you don’t have to worry, they don’t work like the
⏹️ ▶️ John things you were describing. Anyway, that’s not what he rented, unfortunately.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I rented the Ford Escape. Now, it was pretty old, it had like 37,000 miles,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I think is the highest I’ve ever seen on a rental car, not counting things like U-Hauls, which are always miserable, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just regular rental car places. So it has 36,000 miles, it’s like falling apart. Like there’s like padding is falling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off of things. Like there’s like different trim pieces that are just like kind of loose. Like it’s not in good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shape. It smells like a stale car. It’s not a great car, but it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seemed to drive fine. You know, when I drove
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back to my house that night before I left and was gonna leave early in the morning. Okay. So I’m playing around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the plug-in hybrid part. I even charge it up at my house because I have the connector. I’m like, great. I’ll charge it up and see how it goes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I brought the family out for pizza that night. So I got a chance to drive it around town. I decided to use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco only electric mode driving around town and it was like decent. I was like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay, it’s not as good as an EV overall but for those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco brief times you’re driving around town before it runs out of battery, it’s actually a decent option.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The way I would describe it, this is not a perfect analogy, forgive me, but the way I would describe it is like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost like the way like a bike with training wheels gives you the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you are riding a bike and you’re like you’re kind of but like a bike with training
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wheels is really not almost anything like riding a bike whereas like these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco days a lot of kids learn on what’s called a balance bike which is basically a bike with no pedals
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because we’ve kind of figured and this is how this is how my kid learned as well we’ve kind of figured out like that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it the hard part of riding a bike is not the pedals, it’s the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco balancing. It’s like figuring out how to balance with the inertia and the tipping over and the turning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and things like that. And so a bike with training wheels teaches you to pedal, but doesn’t teach you anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the balance. A balanced bike teaches you the hard part, the balancing and the turning and everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can figure out the pedals afterwards when you use a regular bike. So we’ve kind of learned that’s kind of a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better way to teach most kids. Anyway, to me, like the plug-in hybrid
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like the training wheels bike of EVs. Like it gives you the idea
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s just like an EV most of the time, right? It’s like, no, but it’s better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than nothing. Like it’s better than.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but in what ways is it not though? Because I mean, granted, I don’t have near the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey experience with EVs that you have, but Aaron, I don’t know if we even talked about this on the show. I think I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mentioned it briefly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco breezed over it so fast and I want to revisit it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so I can, we don’t have the time to do long in drawn out version of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey story. But suffice to say, we got Erin a 2024 XC90, a plug-in hybrid
⏹️ ▶️ Casey XC90, so they call it an XC90 Recharge. And basically, the theory goes that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it has roughly 30 to 35 miles range on pure electricity. And 90, 95%
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the driving that she does is around town. And in a day, she’ll typically go 20
⏹️ ▶️ Casey miles, maybe. And so hopefully that means we can barely ever use gasoline.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And on occasions when we’re going on a long trip, like if we were going to see a concert a few hours
⏹️ ▶️ Casey away, then it’s basically just a gasoline car all over again. And we just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ignore the battery entirely. And we’ve had this car since mid-July.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is, as I sit here right now, mid-September, and it has over half a tank of gas in it. We’ve never filled
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in, it’s been two months. And we’ve gone from here to Charlottesville twice. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s worked out extremely well for us. I think the only difference to my eyes between
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the XC90 and when it’s not running the gasoline and a pure EV
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that it’s not as fast when you’re not allowing the gasoline
⏹️ ▶️ Casey engine to kick in. You know, like a pure EV, it’s a rocket ship fast always, even crappy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ones. Like my parents’ Chevy Bolt, which is a piece of trash. It’s a delightful piece
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of trash, but it’s a piece of trash. That thing is reasonably quick because it’s pure
⏹️ ▶️ Casey electric all the time. The Volvo, if you give it too much juice, unless you’re in pure electricity mode,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will kick on the gasoline engine, and then it is actually properly fast.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But without that, it’s not very quick. Like if I run on pure electricity and I floor it,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it takes a minute to get out of its own way. And so that is different than a pure BEV, a pure battery electric
⏹️ ▶️ Casey vehicle. But in every other way, like it doesn’t shift, you know, it’s quiet as hell.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In every other way, it seems to me pretty much identical. The only difference is the lack of a trillion torques
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say it’s, so that’s, you’re right that like, when you are in the electric only range
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a plug-in hybrid, it is in the ballpark. Certainly like, you’re right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually the electric motors are not very strong. So you do have that problem of like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it doesn’t have the power of an EV, it doesn’t have the torque of an EV. Other minor things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I think make a big difference to EV drivers, so for instance, it will usually try to mimic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same way the gas engine would drive, so you have things like very strong creep, like when you lift off the gas pedal and it just starts
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can turn that off in errands, but I take your point.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, okay, the Ford Escape, it had, I mean, granted, I’m used to driving electric recently,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’m not that used to it, but you took your foot off the gas and it would go five miles
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an hour immediately. It was, I was like, whoa, hold on, I didn’t say go,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was the fastest creep I’ve ever seen in a vehicle, whether it was in gas or electric mode.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also, you then have all of the complexity and size and weight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of all of those systems.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, if your option for your needs is either gas or plug-in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hybrid, go plug-in hybrid. It’s definitely better than pure gas. But don’t tell yourself that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all right, I’m done with the EV transition now. Like no, you have a halfway point there and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a decent halfway point for a lot of people, but it’s not the same as a full EV and you’re not getting all the benefits
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, very quickly to hijack your story, I think if we were to buy two new cars tomorrow,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I would buy her exact same car again. And I would like to talk to you guys more about it another time, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think for me, I should get the battery electric vehicle because I almost never leave the greater
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Richmond area in my car. And so I think for us, for our family,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it works super well to have this halfway step, to your point, in the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey family hauler. But for the other car, it absolutely should not be what I have. I love my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey car, but it should not be. I should not have a gasoline-powered three-pedal Golf
⏹️ ▶️ Casey R. What I should have is some sort of battery electric small car, maybe even a Chevy Bolt for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter. You should probably just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have an e-bike. Now, the roads around me don’t lend themselves to bicycles,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but in terms of distance, we do agree with each other. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, overall, I was actually fairly impressed with this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of stinky Ford Escape. Like, this is not a high-end vehicle, but I was kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of impressed overall with the driving until I was driving through Brooklyn
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I was stopped at a traffic light and the car just kind of dies.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m like, um, that’s, did I do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something wrong here? Is this? Well, this is no different than the Rivian then. Welcome to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco auto stop start. Well, one great advantage of the Ford Escape plug-in hybrid,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if this is true of all plug-in hybrids, there is no auto stop start because it just uses electric at low speeds.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you don’t have that effect at all. And there’s not even a button to turn it on or off. Like you just.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What effect? The gasoline
⏹️ ▶️ John engine will still turn itself off, will it not?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it will when it’s not being used, but it’s not like auto stop start, like where like, you know, most
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars that, you know, you stop at a traffic light, it’s just, and then the engine just kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John These days, auto stop start turns it off. Not just when you’re in a traffic light, but whenever the heck it feels like
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Cause like, you don’t have to be stopped. You could just be driving and it will just turn itself off and say, you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John need this gas engine right now.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Really? You need to try, you need to drive things other than Hondas cause I have never had that experience.
⏹️ ▶️ John The modern hybrid systems do. They don’t need, like I said, The modern hybrid systems use the gasoline
⏹️ ▶️ John engine to charge the battery, and they use the battery to drive the car, unless you
⏹️ ▶️ John need more power than that, in which case you dip far enough into the pedal and then it fires up the gas engine. But if you lift off the
⏹️ ▶️ John gas pedal and you’re driving, and it’s like, oh, now you don’t need the gas engine anymore, I’m gonna turn that off for you. You’re basically driving
⏹️ ▶️ John an EV that has like, a little bit of a, that has, not a little bit, but it has assist from the gas engine,
⏹️ ▶️ John but most of the time, the gasoline engine is just running as a generator to charge your battery so that you continue to drive
⏹️ ▶️ John it as an EV. And in that situation, you don’t have to be at a stoplight for the gasoline engine to turn off.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and kind of, I mean, I didn’t know most of that for regular hybrids, but I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my ideal setup, because like Casey, you’re right that like around town being all electric and then just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using gas on long trips is kind of the best of both worlds. Because I didn’t have to think about charging
⏹️ ▶️ John also the worst of both worlds, as you noted, because you have both things in your car that you need to maintain, deal with.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, but you know tiff has the BMW i3 with the range extender and that with the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way that works Which I think is the same way the Chevy Volt worked Is it is always
⏹️ ▶️ Marco driven by the electric motors? There is no direct connection between the gas motor and electric motors not even if you floor it not even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for extra power The gas motor can never drive the wheels it is only a generator
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to boost the range of so the way the i3 works is You’re using all electric until
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you hit about 20% battery Then, it will turn on the gas engine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just kind of keep it there, like it will generate enough to keep it at 20% until it runs out of gas.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it only has like a 1.5 gallon gas tank, that’s like a motorcycle engine. But it’s using it as a generator to just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco give you more range when you get to the bottom of your electric range. And that’s all, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has like 100 miles of range before it even gets there. So you have a decent sized battery,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then you have like 80 miles worth of range extension from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using a gas generator from one and a half gallons of gas. I think my ideal setup
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like a long-range road car, if you didn’t go all EV, would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be just do that, but instead of having a 1.5 gallon tank, have like a 5 gallon tank.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Then you could go 300 miles easily, 400 miles, at least. And then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could, on a long trip, you could just stop and get 5 gallons of gas and keep going for another few hundred
⏹️ ▶️ Marco miles. that I don’t I’m sure there’s good reasons why no one ever made that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I I don’t know those reasons like because I think that that sounds amazing and it’s literally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly what the i3 and the Chevy Volt were just with bigger gas tanks but I’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s probably reasons anyway so this car stalls and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything’s dead and it’s like it won’t turn back on it’s throwing errors on the screen it shows a little orange wrench
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh oh it’s properly dead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m like oh Oh no, this is not good. I’m going to a trip for a concert that is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tonight. I have to make it there, but let me just turn it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off, turn it on again. Eventually, after like 15 seconds of messing with it, I finally just got it to turn on.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay, I’m gonna try to keep going. Let’s hope for the best. Well, a short
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time later, while driving on the West Side Highway in Manhattan,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it dies again, And I slowly drift over, try to get to the shoulder. I have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just enough power to get over to the right lane and block an entrance ramp.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So now I’m dead again, and I’m blocking an entrance ramp to the West Side Highway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco No, no, no, no. You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco should hear the horns that result from this. Oh no.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is not good. It takes me a, you know, I turn on the flashers. I’m trying to, and just, I’m like, all right, well, I know I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco got it going last time after a few seconds, just try to turn it off, turn it back on again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Eventually after maybe 30 seconds, I eventually got going again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So everyone’s honking behind me. I’m like waving, sorry, sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I keep going. Eventually I’m going upstate,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco taking a highway off-ramp to go, I think-
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sorry, wait. You didn’t drive immediately to the nearest enterprise at this juncture?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’ll be a two-hour detour right and like I have a concert to go through that night So I’m like look I can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s enterprises upstate like if the worst case like I’m gonna make this concert
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worst case like maybe tomorrow on the way back I can get a different car if I really have to you know by going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to some local location But like I’m not gonna miss the concert so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I keep going over the core I didn’t end up having to replace the car on the trip because there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was just never a time where it was that urgent because I was able to get it going every time, but over the course of this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trip, it stalled about 12 times like this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh my word.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Usually at least while it was stopped, like at a light or something. And I tried, and here of course,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m a nerd, so I’m like, I wonder if I, because you can pick, because it’s a plug-in hybrid, it has all these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco different modes. You can have auto, or you can have only use the battery mode, don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the battery mode, and you can have make the engine run constantly to charge the battery
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode. Yeah, yep, yep, so of course I tried all those different modes trying to figure out. Okay. Well is it maybe it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco misreading the battery voltage So I’ll keep the battery at a high charge level using the generate option Maybe it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know dying in the switchover, so I’ll make it never use the battery and that didn’t work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m like maybe I’ll make it always use the battery and then also between like always using it until it’s down then make it charge Itself all the way back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up and then you like I tried all these because I was I was in this car for like I Don’t know seven eight at nine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hours during this trip. It was a long time So I was like I had a lot of time to play with the different modes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco none of them made any difference whatsoever It just kept dying so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I Did make the trip it was fine eventually? I was you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in some pretty bad situations with this dying in the middle of busy highways in New York City and stuff but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know it was I Did eventually make it back with all the including
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it even stalled literally the traffic light right before re-entering
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Enterprise location to drop it off. It stalled there.
⏹️ ▶️ John You should have just gotten out of the car, walked up, left it there on the road, walked up to the counter and said, your car is there.
⏹️ ▶️ John So why did you leave it there? I says, well, ask the car.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I told them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I expressed to them my dissatisfaction with the situation. They were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apologetic. They didn’t give me a discount or anything. I’m like, look, you, I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just take this car off the road. Like just, you have to take, like, you know, I wasn’t gonna make a huge deal
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of it because I don’t want them to think I was making a big deal just to get like a discount or something, but I’m like, you gotta take this car off the road. Like this is unsafe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, the idea that renting a car might be more reliable than my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco broken Rivian, nope, wasn’t.
⏹️ ▶️ John This still might have been more reliable, but remember I was suggested that you rent a Honda. I hope when you
⏹️ ▶️ John were stalled on the side of the West Side
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Highway, you saw the ghost of my head
⏹️ ▶️ John floating through your mind going, Honda, Honda, not Ford, Honda.
⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a difference.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my god, John. There exist other automobiles than Hondas that also work.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just saying. I drove my 10-year-old Honda today, and it got there
⏹️ ▶️ John and back without any problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, I’ve driven a lot of 10-year-old cars that are not Hondas that get there and back. Your cars don’t last
⏹️ ▶️ John that long. The Pebbles killed them. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my god. God help me, John. I don’t know how we’ve lasted 10 years. The Pebbles
⏹️ ▶️ John or Vanos, the avenging god of Vanos.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wasn’t just the Vanos. There was the water pump. There was the drive train. There were lots of different
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things that almost killed that car. Thank you very
⏹️ ▶️ John The timing belt guides, right? I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. Anyways, no, there are exist cars
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John other than Honda. Timing chain
⏹️ ▶️ Casey guides, sorry. Whatever. There exist cars other than Honda. I swear to you, they do. They work. They really do. Not Fords,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they do work. Not Rivians. Not Volvos with pebbles. That’s right. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey again, the pebble doesn’t matter if the serpentine belt ain’t
⏹️ ▶️ John I was going to say, if your engine’s not running all the time, you’re just lugging that thing around. And
⏹️ ▶️ John when you need it, I hope it actually starts.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Me too. Well, I’m glad the concert was good, even if the travel was a bit disastrous