catatp.fm Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

557: The Phone-Box Lottery

17 Oct 2023

What we’d like to see from Apple this fall, regardless of what the rumor mill says.

Episode Description:

Sponsored by:

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  • Hatch: Devices to help you sleep better.

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MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Chapters

  1. Ab day
  2. Hamas attacks on Israel
  3. New member special!
  4. Follow-up: Rewind AI Pendant
  5. 80%-charge-limit setting
  6. Sponsor: Hatch
  7. Photos follow-up
  8. Chrome hates Docker
  9. AirPods Pro earplug follow-up
  10. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  11. Fall wishes
  12. Rumored iPhone-updater pads
  13. Sponsor: Kolide
  14. #askatp: Pick 3 focal lengths
  15. #askatp: Adding music on iOS
  16. #askatp: Synology remote access
  17. Ending theme
  18. A sentence
  19. Neutral: Car noises 🖼️

Ab day

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have to ask a favor. You aren’t allowed to make me laugh tonight. Because this is one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of those days where like, it was ab day for the workout. You know, a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while ago I’m like, man, what did I eat? My stomach hurts. Like, oh, that’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, this is one of those days. So, we have to, okay, so, Casey, you aren’t allowed to talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco food. John, you aren’t allowed to talk about anything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t, I’m not supposed to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey laugh. Is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there anything depressing that we could talk about to keep you from being happy and laughing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Let’s talk about Middle Eastern politics, that’ll do it.

Hamas attacks on Israel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know how to handle this, right? Because I don’t think that any of the three of us

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to ignore it because that’s not really right and I’m kind of proud

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of how the three of us treat these sorts of really terrible things I’m proud that we stand up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for what we believe is right But I don’t know what the right answer is and what to say That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not going to upset somebody not saying things is upsetting people and I can understand that that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Saying things is probably going to upset potentially even more people. And I don’t want to upset people.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s really complicated for me because of my heritage and background.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So my dad grew up Jewish, full stop.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey His grandfather was a rabbi. His brother, their whole family is Jewish.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My mom is Catholic. And because of that, I was raised feeling guilty about everything but otherwise

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not much of anything. But that being said, it’s an odd thing for me because even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey though I don’t feel terribly religiously Jewish and we recognize some holidays

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we’re probably terrible Jews, you know, my immediate family as in, well both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my parents and my brothers and myself but also, you know, Aaron and me and the kids. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recognize some of the bigger holidays but I don’t feel terribly religiously Jewish and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one could I don’t want to make an argument, I’m an imposter. But I do feel, to some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey degree, ethnically Jewish. And I hope that’s not offensive, because I don’t mean it that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way at all. But I feel like that’s a part of my heritage, whether or not I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey embrace the religious side of things. And to see what happened in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Middle East, it hurts. Even as someone who is pretty well removed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from it, by any definition, it hurts. It doesn’t feel good. And to know that more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jews were killed on a single day than any day since the Holocaust, like that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cool. I don’t care what your particular opinions are about Israel, about Palestine, about Palestinians, about Israelis.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Murdering innocent civilians, particularly children, that ain’t okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just not okay. We can have, well I don’t know if I’m capable of it, but one could have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a nuanced conversation about the politics in the Middle East, about how we got to where we are today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I think it’s important to note that anti-Semitism, from everything I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seen, not personally thankfully, but everything I’ve seen, is that it seems to be on the rise, and that’s not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t care who it is, murdering and kidnapping and doing terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things to civilians, particularly children, is unequivocally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not okay. There is no justification for that in my mind. There’s just none. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just none. And I wanted to say that, and I think we to a degree wanted to say that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I don’t know if either of you guys have, maybe Marco, you might have something to add too, but I just want to make it plain that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is uncomfortable for me and for us because we know that there’s so much that we don’t know, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we wanted to acknowledge that this is messed up and it ain’t right. And there’s a lot more messed up things that will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be happening that are also not right. It stinks. It just really stinks that here in the year 2023, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is still going on with anyone. Like, I feel like humans should be better than this, but we’re just not.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it sucks. And I don’t know what else to say other than I feel so bad for everyone involved,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it sucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s honestly, I think you put it really well. And you’ve actually said a lot of what I wanted to say, so I’ll be short.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, I don’t have a lot of, I don’t have any personal connections. I am not, I don’t have any heritage in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the region. I am no longer religious, but I was brought up Catholic. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco besides having a ton of Jewish friends, because I’ve always grown up in, I grew up mostly in Jewish neighborhoods.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Almost all of my ex-girlfriends happen to be Jewish. You know, look, I have a type.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But, you know, it doesn’t affect me, you know, personally in that way. But, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco largely, I mean, geez, I don’t know anything about Middle Eastern politics except that it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco complicated and very messy and there’s no simple solutions. And so I don’t think it’s a good idea

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for me to comment on the politics side because I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about in that area.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco At first, like, right after this happened, you know, we could have talked about this on last week’s show, but I kind of viewed it as like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t want to do more harm than good by talking about Middle Eastern politics, because I don’t know anything about it. But you don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to talk about the politics of the region to talk about the actions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a terrorist group against civilians, you know. I was afraid to talk about the politics, but I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not afraid to talk about that. You know, in the past, the positions we’ve advocated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for on the show at various, whenever various issues came up, black rights, trans rights,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco women’s rights, the arguments we’ve made back then at various issues

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the day, were mostly boiling down to equal rights and basic safety,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no matter who you are. And I think it’s perfectly consistent and valid to argue for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And therefore, I don’t believe it’s ever justifiable to mass murder civilians.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco From that point of view, the Hamas attacks in Israel were definitely terrorist acts that intentionally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco murdered civilians. And that is never justifiable. And I think it’s perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco valid to consider that separately from your opinion on Israel or its actions in this area.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The actions of a state or a terrorist group don’t represent the entire population.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so the politics are very complicated. But the human rights angle, I think, is not complicated.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Murdering civilians is always wrong. That’s my hot take. Murdering civilians is always wrong. I don’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that to me is pretty, is not that arguable, to be honest, I don’t consider

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that complicated of a thought and there’s a lot of very good reasons for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of people around the world to be angry or scared or very deeply saddened by all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this and so my heart goes out to anyone affected by this and I will always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco condemn the murdering of civilians no matter who’s doing it, whether it’s us, whether it’s our fringe terrorist

⏹️ ▶️ Marco groups that we have in the US, like white Christian nationalists or whether it’s across

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the world. Murdering civilians is never justifiable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Very briefly, Casey Neistat, who is a very popular YouTuber

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you may or may not enjoy or may or may not be familiar with. His almost nine minute video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this, which was a few days ago as we record, I thought was just perfect and worth

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watching. And if memory serves, that Casey grew up religiously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jewish and also ethnically Jewish in the same way I was describing. And so it hits

⏹️ ▶️ Casey home stronger for him than it did for me. But I think it’s a really good video and a really good encapsulation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of kind of how I feel, too, if I’m allowed to glob on to what he had said. We’re trying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re learning. We’re doing our best. And yeah, I guess the only thing that the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three of us can do from here is to just try to do a regular show and try to put a smile on your face,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but not make Marco laugh, because that’s a step too far. Step too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco far. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today.

New member special!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so we hopefully will turn that frown upside down and tell you well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re American if you’re frowning in British I don’t know what to tell you but if you’re American, we’re gonna turn that frown upside down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and We have a new member special that we released a few hours ago. We are recording this this that you’re listening to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now We’re recording on Monday night. So if all the fun things happen Tuesday or or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wednesday or what have you then are bad? It’s just we had a little bit of a scheduling change for this week. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So when Nintendo inevitably gets bought by Apple tomorrow, our apologies. But nevertheless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we released today on Monday a new member special, which John brought to Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I and told us basically nothing about what we were about to discuss before we recorded.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, I will leave it up to you because whatever I choose will be wrong. How much would you like to reveal about the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey member special that we just released?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, whoever posted that on mass that I’d already revealed a lot about it. But,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, so the title is ATP diamond dogs, which is a reference to the Ted Lasso show. I’m not sure if

⏹️ ▶️ John we explained that on the show, but anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco we did not Google

⏹️ ▶️ John for Google for Ted Lasso diamond dogs and you will find that explanation. Maybe we’ll put a link in the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John if you remember. Um, uh, colon, because that’s the way that the specials work at some phrase

⏹️ ▶️ John colon and then a title. So ATP diamond dogs, colon talk me out of it. And the topic I was bringing

⏹️ ▶️ John was something that I was thinking about that I wanted Marco

⏹️ ▶️ John and Casey to talk me out of doing. I think the post-immacidon said it was a project. I won’t reveal more than that.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it was some project I was considering embarking on. And it seemed to me to not be a great

⏹️ ▶️ John idea. So I said, Marco and Casey, talk me out of it. But really, what I wanted to do was, like, let’s weigh the pros and cons

⏹️ ▶️ John of this approach, or of this project. Should I do it? Should I not do it? And even if you don’t care

⏹️ ▶️ John about the project or whether or not I do it, I, because I’ll spoil that the product

⏹️ ▶️ John is somewhat relevant to the show. All right. So it’s not just like a house painting project.

⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it would be interesting to, uh, to have people with some experience

⏹️ ▶️ John in the area that I’m considering, uh, diving into, to talk about the pros and cons, just to sort of,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, see how we think about making decisions and sort of map out the space. So there you have it. ATP diamond

⏹️ ▶️ John dogs. Will this be the one and only episode of diamond dogs or will we have other instances where one

⏹️ ▶️ John of us wants advice from the other, as we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s really good. I would look, our member specials, there’s a lot of winners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco among them. I will happily toot our horn in that direction. This one is particularly good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so you should really check this out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. I had a lot of fun with it. It took me by surprise. I didn’t know where we were going with it, obviously, but I did have a lot of fun

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with it.

Follow-up: Rewind AI Pendant

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s do some follow-up. And we actually got some interesting follow-up from Will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Kiefer, who is the CTO from Rewind AI, which is the company that does

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the live streams. And Will wrote in to say, I’m the CTO at Rewind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey AI, and more importantly, an avid listener to ATP and the expanded ATP universe for at least eight years. Well, thank you, Will.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I appreciate how even your discussion of the Rewind pendant was in episode so 556, it is a terrifying yet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey likely future for technology, and you can count me in as a skeptic. However, I’m hoping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we can develop it in a way to establish proper privacy baselines and expectations for the entire

⏹️ ▶️ Casey class of product. The same goes for Mac, iOS, and Windows apps, forever private. For example, when we launch,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey backup, or sync, it will be fully end-to-end encrypted forever. No employers or governments should ever have access.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this is even more important is what we capture extends beyond your personal Mac or iPhone. That’s a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. I mean, first of all, I’m glad to hear that somebody responsible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for one of the products that we talked about and criticized wrote in in a way that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very constructive and not like making us feel terrible for having said anything bad about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s good because things have gone in the direction sometimes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think it’s good that important people like Will at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Rewind have their heads in the right place for terms of privacy and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the concerns remain about the possibility of this product and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this technology, whether they do it or not, you know, largely when we talk about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of stuff, we try to generalize it because it’s not quite really just about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if this particular company does a product that does these things, but there’s a larger issue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like, well, now Now that it’s possible to make this kind of technology

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasonably practically and reasonably easily and reasonably affordably, if there’s some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco line that Rewind.ai chooses not to cross, someone else will cross it. Some product

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will come out that does this thing, even if they choose not to. The specific actions of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this one particular company, I think, are less relevant than the the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ideas in general of like, wow, now that consumer tech is so capable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so cheap and we have these new AI capabilities that are becoming so accessible and again, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheap and widely available, what’s going to be possible in the world? What products will exist?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not just if Rewind makes it, but if some random company with a name full of vowels on Amazon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sells it to you for $35, if they don’t do it, someone else will basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what does the world look like once that becomes commonplace? Couldn’t agree

⏹️ ▶️ John more. I just thought it was real nice that you guys, they sent this email and I replied and said, I assume that

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want me to say any of the stuff that you wrote in this email on the show. And he said, No, you can

⏹️ ▶️ John say anything on the show. So I thought that was really nice.

80%-charge-limit setting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Alexandra writes, listening to Casey’s segment on 80% charge limit setting, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you might’ve misunderstood this battery setting. The intention is not to simply stop charging at 80% and leaving you with a less

⏹️ ▶️ Casey charged phone. The intention is to stop charging at 80% until an hour or so before you take the phone off the charger, then top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it off to 100%. As setting text says, the quote, iPhone learns from your daily charging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey routine, quote. I have this setting on, I charge my phone every night. It is always 100% when I take it off

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the charger in the morning. So I don’t think I did a particularly good job explaining what I was talking about,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if this is one of the emails that we got in, because that is one of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the three options that is on the iPhone’s 15. And that is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what do they call that? It’s like-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Optimized battery charging. Yeah, that’s been around for a few years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco please everyone, stop writing in. Just give us a second to finish this thought.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Now with the iPhone’s 15, there’s optimized battery charging, which is what we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just spoke about. There’s none, which is, you know, always charged to 100% anytime you’re on the charger.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and this new thing that I was describing last episode, which is referred to in the settings as 80% limit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so reading from an Apple support document, with iPhone 15 models, you can choose between optimized battery charging, 80% limit and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey none. When you choose 80% limit, your iPhone will charge up to about 80% and then stop charging. If the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey battery charge level gets down to 75%, charging will resume until your battery charge level reaches about 80% again. With the 80%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey limit enabled, your iPhone will occasionally charge to 100% to maintain

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accurate battery state of charge estimates. This is what I was talking about. So it’s a hard stop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with asterisk. A hard stop at 80%. That’s what I was playing with for a few days. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I wasn’t such a ball of stress, I think I would have stuck with it. But that is what I’m talking about. Now, what I’ve fallen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey back to and what my phone is currently on is what we’ve had for a few years now, this optimized battery charging,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where it kind of hovers at 80% overnight until just before things are going to wake up and start messing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with your phone again. Then it’ll crank it all the way up to 100%. However, Scott Martindale wrote in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a very, very justified complaint, which I share. Scott writes, there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quick way to tell the phone, please charge to 100% just this once. You have to disable the feature entirely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then remember to turn it back on. 100% charge seems like a full tank of gas in a car. It stays on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey full or 100% for longer than you expect. When the phone is at 80%, I feel like it immediately goes below 80%.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree with both the things Scott said. One of the nice things about on the Mac is when you have the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey battery dingus in the menu bar, it says, you know, charging on hold, rarely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used on battery, and my battery is currently sitting at 80%, but there’s a nice menu bar, or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a menu item right there, charge to full now. And I’ll give you one guess what that does,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and what I kind of want. I don’t know where they would put it, to be honest with you, but I kind of want that somewhere,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess it would have to be buried in the battery settings, but I want that for my phone. Maybe control center?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ah, maybe, that’s actually not a bad point. But one way or another, I agree with Scott that I wish that was there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I apologize for the confusion. If I had done a better job explaining it last episode, I guess we wouldn’t have gotten some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of these emails. So my bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why is the 80% limit of the iPhone 15 only feature? Everything

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’ve heard

⏹️ ▶️ John is like the iPhone 15s have so much more battery life than the 14s that only they can handle this feature. It seems like a

⏹️ ▶️ John really weird kind of model differentiation thing. Like I can’t choose to only

⏹️ ▶️ John charge my iPhone 14 Pro to 80%. I don’t quite get that one. I hope they fix that in an

⏹️ ▶️ John update. Yeah, I don’t get it either.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Speaking of optimized charging, watchOS 10 is now embracing the same thing. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is again from a different Apple knowledge-based document. Optimized charge limit learns from your daily usage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to determine when to charge to an optimized limit and when to allow full charge. Optimized charge limit is on by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey default when you set up your Apple Watch. And then Mark Wickens wrote in, this feature builds on the existing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey optimized charging feature found on the Apple Watch and most other Apple devices. Now though, if the watch notices that you typically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only use say 30% of the battery capacity on the daily basis, but still charge it every night, instead of charging to 100%,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it might stop short at say 70% instead. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is actually, so this is, I believe the Ultra had this since the beginning last year, but this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now came to the non-Ultra watches. I think this makes a lot more sense on the Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the Apple Watch, I think, gets upgraded a lot less often than phones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s just a hunch based on what I see in the real world. It could be totally wrong. And of course, not everyone has an Apple Watch, but I think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life cycle of an Apple Watch for most people tends to be, I’m going to keep this thing until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either it breaks or more likely until the battery no longer holds a useful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco charge. That seems to be what kills Apple Watches for people, is like the battery no longer holds useful. Because most people are not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super jumping on the idea of like, I need an Apple Watch with a faster processor.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or whatever, there’s no camera there. There’s a lot fewer upgrade drivers for the Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it seems to be more about, does it still work for me? And one of the biggest manufacturers is, does the battery make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it through the day? For Apple to add a feature that should theoretically help long-term Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery health and help the Apple Watch have a longer, useful life for a lot of its customers is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty cool. If that’s the reason they did this, and it probably is, first of all, it’s very unselfish by them in the sense that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s kind of the opposite of planned obsolescence. It’s like, I guess, planned extension

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lessons. This is a pretty cool thing if that’s gonna be the outcome of Apple Watches

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lasting longer out in the field. And so the way I would view this probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco working out for people is they leave it on the default for the first few years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Once the battery has degraded to the point where it’s not super useful at 80%, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can then just turn the setting off and charge to 100% from that point forward and get a bit more time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of it before it can no longer make it through the day. So that’s a pretty cool feature. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the handful of power users who actually need a larger part of the battery from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the beginning, like for instance, if you’re using it for sleep tracking, it might be inconvenient to limit it to 80%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for that use, depending on how and when you charge it. But for most people who are not using it for sleep tracking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and are just wearing it during the day, this is a cool feature. On the phone side of it, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s far less likely to be used. I think a lot more people, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s probably why the phone version is not on by default, because I think they know that that, first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of all, again, they run the risk of causing a scandal. If they’re, oh, your phone only has 80% of battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by default, you could go into a secret setting Apple doesn’t want you to know about to get your whole battery.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You could see that going badly on the phone. But also I think people are less likely to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give up the day-to-day capacity on their phones. I think they always want all of it on the phone because they actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco often use it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Hatch and the Hatch Restore 2.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco dream machine. This is a sophisticated sound machine, light, and alarm clock. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s beautifully designed, fits right next to your bed. You know, I got to say I was a little skeptical whether I would enjoy this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I really do. I’ve just been using my phone for years with my alarm clock. But before that, I used one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of those like sunrise simulating alarm clocks that lights up slowly and I really liked it, but it was never very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bright and the sounds were horrendous and very limited. The hatch restore 2 is an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amazing version of that. So the light you can customize it different colors, different brightnesses, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want to be. They have a whole bunch of like cool presets like desert sunrise or you know, jungle mountain or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re all really cool and I kind of like switching between them. And there’s so many more features with the hatch restore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too. They have mindfulness exercises, meditations, they have sound machines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you want to sleep with sound or if you want to kind of like chill out for a while, they have all that support. And of course, it’s also a really good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco alarm clock. It has all these modern features, this amazing light feature, these wonderful sounds that are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much more graceful and much nicer than what I’ve heard before with other products. So check it out. Great

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone and there’s so many more features beyond that. So check it out, hatch.co slash ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you so much to Hatch for sponsoring our show.

Photos follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s enter the photos section of the follow-up. And we have a fair

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit of follow-up that was very interesting and useful with regard to, I think it was an Ask ATP from last week,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how do I back up photos from an iOS device? And so we got a smattering of different

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pieces of follow-up about that. Jonathan Fries writes, a paid Flickr account, they still exist,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a paid Flickr account can be used to back up all the photos from an iPad or iPhone using the Flickr app. I’ve used this approach as a backup solution

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for years. Dan Lithio writes Photosync, and actually a lot of people wrote about Photosync.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Photosync, even if you only have the space optimized version on the iPad, Photosync will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey download the full quality original and then back it up wherever you want. For live photos, it will back up both the photo and the video, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can be read and combined by Mac Photo app, should you need to restore. And it works with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey many different storage backends, both local and cloud. Samba, Dropbox, is it Samba? Samba, I don’t know, network

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shares. Dropbox S3, Backblaze B2, and I think even USB drives, et cetera. And then Dan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey continued, Google Photos. Even if you only have the space optimized version on the iPad, Google Photos will force the original

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to download and then upload that to Google. I’m guessing the reason that you guys shot down Google Photos and wouldn’t be thrilled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about Photosync either is that they don’t back up your photo library metadata. However, with iCloud as the main backup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for everything, I would say that some people wouldn’t mind a backup of the raw pics without metadata or edits if that’s all they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could get. Renee Fouquet writes, I probably pronounced that wrong, I’m sorry. Anyway, Renee

⏹️ ▶️ Casey writes, Synology Photos has an iOS app that automatically backs up photo and video originals in the background. You

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need to open the app from time to time to re-enable the background processing, but that’s only every few weeks or so. And it reminds you with a local

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notification. It works very reliably for me. I’ve really wanted to dabble with Synology Photos,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I feel like my photo solution, as convoluted and ridiculous as it is, is working for me. And so I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no real dire need or reason to mess with it, but I’ve really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought about it and I’ve heard mostly good things. Ping Liu writes, I’m using iCloud,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey OneDrive, Photo Backup, and Google Photos to back up all my photos from the iPhone and iPads to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey different services simultaneously. And Pete Spree, excuse me, Pete Spee chimes in.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The OneDrive family plan allows up to six users to have one terabyte each for a total of six terabytes. Even if you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have four kids, you can create six accounts, link them together via shared folders that allow users to read and write to the additional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey account space. Casey will be interested in this additional hack. You can use the Synology CloudSync

⏹️ ▶️ Casey package to back up your NAS to all of these accounts, and as well as simultaneously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey allowing all six user accounts to be synced with whatever Synology shares you have to take advantage of all the storage. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey six terabytes of iCloud, excuse me, of cloud storage is $100 per year from Costco, and you get Office 365

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for all the users as part of the package. I think it’s the best deal going when compared to Amazon, Google, or iCloud Drive Space.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then finally, Chris Kiyafi, I think that’s how it’s pronounced, writes, Amazon Prime

⏹️ ▶️ Casey comes with photo backup. It’s included with Prime, so while it’s not free, many people already have access. Like you said in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the show, it’s far from a great solution though. First, the initial upload is painful even for moderate photo libraries since it needs to first download

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the full-size image from iCloud before it sends it to Amazon. Second, it doesn’t really run in the background. So I had to create

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a one-action shortcut to launch the Amazon photo app every few days. And then finally, it might be a cheaper

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or easier option for those of us without a Mac. Oh, and I’m sorry, one more thing. Several people wrote in about Dropbox for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iOS has a photo upload feature as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, these are all backup solutions that are trying to work within the constraints of iPad, iOS devices

⏹️ ▶️ John to push to cloud backups, essentially a cloud backup that’s not iCloud. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s more of a backup than a live thing. So a lot of these services, like you’re just gonna take the photos and chuck them into this bucket

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s not connected to your iCloud library. So if that gets hosed, you still have these backups. So it is an additional

⏹️ ▶️ John backup, but it’s also an additional cloud backup. And all these little shenanigans you have to go through, oh, don’t make

⏹️ ▶️ John sure it’s, you launch it every once in a while to make sure it’s running. And of course, if it’s downloading photos in the background

⏹️ ▶️ John and then pushing them up to the cloud, It’s potentially burning your battery while it does that. I think these are

⏹️ ▶️ John all better than nothing and reasonable options, but like we were talking about in the last show where

⏹️ ▶️ John we were saying that we thought Macs should have iCloud backup like the phones do, and we thought phones should have Time Machine

⏹️ ▶️ John like the Mac does, and Time Machine is kind of a different, more of an old school kind of thing where it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, obviously you wouldn’t connect a hard drive to your phone, or maybe you would in the USB-C days, but anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like a batch process where like, I’m going to run Time Machine backup now, and it’s going to backup stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John over some fast connection, either a local network or a wire, to something that is in my house

⏹️ ▶️ John right now. And there’s a place for all of these in your own personal backup vortex. You should have cloud backups,

⏹️ ▶️ John you should have local backups, you should have backups that happen transparently in the background that you don’t have to think about, you

⏹️ ▶️ John should have backups that run periodically in or more heavyweight. And I think in this discussion,

⏹️ ▶️ John what we’ve learned is that both the Mac and the iPhone and the iPad have holes

⏹️ ▶️ John in there, and what Apple provides for backups. If you have both of them, if you

⏹️ ▶️ John buy everything from Apple, you can use the Mac to help backup stuff, obviously, because once you get your

⏹️ ▶️ John iCloud photo library onto your Mac, then you can use all the Mac backup solutions and do a time machine

⏹️ ▶️ John backup with your local photo library or whatever. And then cloud backups are probably available pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John well on both of them, but of course cloud backup on the Mac is not built in like it is in the phone. But yeah, the original question

⏹️ ▶️ John was, what if I don’t have Mac? What if I just have the phone? And if you just have one of these platforms so not the other, that’s when you

⏹️ ▶️ John really start to see the holes. So I’m glad third parties are fighting the good fight and trying to find a solution to this, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like, I mean, I guess Photosync is the one that maybe does USB drives. Maybe with the advent of USB-C,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’ll be more of this, but I feel like most of the path of resistance on the phone and the iPad is cloud

⏹️ ▶️ John backups. And even that, there is some resistance because you have to essentially make sure that you’re running somehow

⏹️ ▶️ John and force download the full quality one because you probably don’t have the originals being downloaded onto your phone all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then force upload them and then get rid the cloud one, and it’s just, I feel for the people writing these apps,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re out there if you want to give them a try.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. And then continuing in the photos section of the world, an anonymous person wrote in with regard to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey photos, remembering the crop aspect ratios that drives John nuts in MacOS 14.1,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the beta, this anonymous person writes photos will only remember whether you selected freeform or original

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last. All other aspect ratios are ignored since photos never wants to change the crop aspect ratio when you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey enter the cropped tool on unadjusted photos. Also, Photos does store the specific

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aspect ratio applied to each photo. For every adjusted photo, Photos stores a crop rectangle and a cropped aspect

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ratio. When selecting freeform, it stores 0, 0 as an aspect ratio. Additionally, Photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now stores a user default indicating whether the user prefers a locked aspect ratio, original or not. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey value is only changed when the user either clicks on original or freeform and nothing else.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is clarifying. before when I heard about this feature on the last episode, I thought,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, that means it’s just every time I crop something to something else, like now the next photo I view is gonna be viewed like

⏹️ ▶️ John cropped to square because the last photo I did was square, but I’m happy to hear that it doesn’t do that, it just looks at freeform and

⏹️ ▶️ John original, ignores all the other ones, which is great. It’s also nice to hear that they’re already storing the

⏹️ ▶️ John selected aspect ratio for photos with the clever 00 programmer hack as the aspect ratio

⏹️ ▶️ John for freeform. Still probably a more thorough implementation

⏹️ ▶️ John of this would be to have an actual preference in preferences that says, hey, when you come upon a photo that you’ve never

⏹️ ▶️ John selected an aspect ratio for, what do you want me to pick? They don’t have that. In fact, there are

⏹️ ▶️ John no editing specific preferences in photos. So I can understand why them maybe not wanting to go through

⏹️ ▶️ John all the trouble of saying, we’re gonna have a new breed of preference in photos. Have you ever looked at, by the way, the Mac photos,

⏹️ ▶️ John I keep saying preferences, the settings in the Mac photos app, there’s not a lot there. For an application that’s so big

⏹️ ▶️ John and so important, very sparse preferences. It is not one of those applications like mine that has a million preferences

⏹️ ▶️ John for every possible setting. It is not a power user type preference slash setting screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, if you don’t wanna go that far, if you don’t wanna have a setting for that, doing it this way, which is essentially

⏹️ ▶️ John like having that setting, but having it be invisible and having that setting get set every time you hit freeform or original,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this will work out just fine for me and I probably won’t have any more complaints, but we’ll see once it actually

⏹️ ▶️ John ships. I’m not gonna run the beta.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right.

Chrome hates Docker

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, tell me about your issues with Chrome, other than the fact that it’s Chrome.

⏹️ ▶️ John This was last week. I was talking about getting Docker image up and running to do dev work on the ATP CMS.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that was all swell, except Chrome kept throwing this network error, error

⏹️ ▶️ John network changed error. And I couldn’t figure out what it was until I realized it was only there when

⏹️ ▶️ John I was running Docker. And so I did look more into this, because it was basically making

⏹️ ▶️ John it so so that I couldn’t do ATP CMS development work in Chrome. And by the way, I

⏹️ ▶️ John like to do the development in Chrome because I like the Chrome DevTools a little bit better, or maybe I’m just used to them more. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John that was my go-to, is to use the Chrome DevTools to have them open while I’m doing stuff. But it became

⏹️ ▶️ John untenable because it was like, 50% of the HTTP requests sent from the browser would

⏹️ ▶️ John die with failure because of er, network changed. So I started Googling. And

⏹️ ▶️ John Googling was one of those depressing, you know, search sequences where you’re like, oh, I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John the only one who has this problem and it’s super old. And I was finding the bug reports, bug reports against Chromium

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, like the, whatever the open source project is that underlies the engine where this error is taking place.

⏹️ ▶️ John You could find reports starting in 2019 for error network change when Docker is

⏹️ ▶️ John running. Cool. And that, so the first one was open in June 17th and it was closed as won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John fixed in July of 2019. And then November 15th one was filed

⏹️ ▶️ John and that was closed as won’t fix on December 1st, 2021. Speaking of 2021, more different, these are

⏹️ ▶️ John all new reports. March 29th of 2021, that one was closed as won’t fix on September 28th.

⏹️ ▶️ John September 29th, another one was filed. That one is still open. But this is a depressing series. I read through

⏹️ ▶️ John all these threads. Like why are they being closed won’t fix? I

⏹️ ▶️ John still don’t have a good answer to that. Like the browser, the people who do the browser engine are saying, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John the network did change. And so this is legitimate error. And the people who are finding the bug saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just trying to use your web browser and I happen to be running Docker and it becomes useless. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t use the web browser to browse the web. Like if you, maybe you wouldn’t notice this if you didn’t know the DevTools, but if you

⏹️ ▶️ John open up the network pane on the DevTools and just do literally anything in Chrome, it just fills with red,

⏹️ ▶️ John error network change, error network, like those requests fail, right? I mean, it made me very impressed with

⏹️ ▶️ John how like robust Gmail is because with like 50% of the requests failing, Gmail is just like battling its way

⏹️ ▶️ John through. You get that little yellow banner at the top and it says you can click to rethrive. It didn’t break the app. It just made

⏹️ ▶️ John it, you know, very slow and terrible. But many other applications just totally break because if they can’t run

⏹️ ▶️ John HTTP requests, they’re like, oh, the network’s gone. I don’t know what’s going on. Here’s the thing about

⏹️ ▶️ John this bug. Other web browsers work fine, right? If you run Safari when

⏹️ ▶️ John Docker is running, you’d never get these errors. It is a Chrome specific thing. And the theory,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know about the internals here, but the theory that is put forward in a lot of these bug reports is Chrome notices

⏹️ ▶️ John that something relating to the network for this computer has changed. And the argument

⏹️ ▶️ John of the people in the bug reports is, yeah, but if the thing that changed is totally irrelevant to Chrome,

⏹️ ▶️ John like if it’s some networking thing that Docker is using that has no relation to any of the connections

⏹️ ▶️ John that Chrome has, why does it care? Why doesn’t it just keep using its connections? They’re fine. All its

⏹️ ▶️ John connections are fine. Docker’s not messing with Chrome’s connections. You can make HTTP requests on any port that you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John Everything’s fine. But Chrome says something about the networking change. Nope, kill everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John And for years, since 2019, they’ve just been closing these bugs as won’t fix. No, this

⏹️ ▶️ John is working as designed. Network change, we kill everything. And I feel, again, I don’t know the details, but I feel like the strongest

⏹️ ▶️ John argument is this doesn’t happen with other web browsers. So I feel like it shouldn’t happen with Chrome.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that was disappointing. I had to switch my web dev to Safari and their dev tools have gotten better over the years.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I’m just not quite used to them. So anyway, I switched to Safari and then Gavin Harris wrote

⏹️ ▶️ John in to say that he swapped away from Docker Desktop on the Mac to use Orbstack, O-R-B-S-T-A-C-K.dev.

⏹️ ▶️ John He says, it works great for me and it has the added benefit of being able to run a Linux VM. And their motto on their website is,

⏹️ ▶️ John Orbstack is the fast, light, easy way to run Docker containers and Linux. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, it does run Linux VMs if that’s something you want, it’s not what I want, but it basically, kind of a drop-in replacement

⏹️ ▶️ John for Docker Desktop on the Mac. Like you can just run Docker containers just as is in them. It is another

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that runs Docker. And I had high hopes that this would solve my problems.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a native Mac app instead of like Electron app like Docker is. And it’s, you know, there’s nothing to install. It’s just a little app

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, but it does, first of all, it asks you if you want to import all your images and containers and stuff from Docker,

⏹️ ▶️ John which I did and that worked, but I’m like, hmm, now you’re kind of like, I had to look

⏹️ ▶️ John at what this thing was installing. It like installs a new like socket for the Docker networking thing

⏹️ ▶️ John and installs, that wants to install a new privilege helper. And anyway, I tried it, it didn’t solve

⏹️ ▶️ John the problem. Chrome still flips out over there and network changed things when you’re running Orbstack. So I uninstalled

⏹️ ▶️ John it. I think it’s also, you can get to pay for a subscription at some point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re looking for some fun way to run Linux VMs and Docker, Orbstack is very cool and it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John preferable to using the default Docker desktop, but I just went back to Docker desktop

⏹️ ▶️ John just because, you know, it didn’t solve my problem and I’m used to Docker desktop. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I mean, this is not a bug that I care about that much because, you know, whatever, I’ll just use Safari. But the bad thing

⏹️ ▶️ John is when I’m running Docker, not only can I not do development work in Chrome, I can’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John anything in Chrome. Like Chrome is basically just dead, right? And the only way to

⏹️ ▶️ John undeadify it is to quit Docker, like to quit the Docker engine. So please,

⏹️ ▶️ John if there are any Chrome or Chromium devs looking at this, I have high hopes that that one issue opened

⏹️ ▶️ John in September 29th of 2021 is still marked as available and open. please someone

⏹️ ▶️ John find that and don’t close it as won’t fix like all the other ones. But this just seems like,

⏹️ ▶️ John again, if every other web browser works and Chrome doesn’t, I think this is a Chrome problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For what it’s worth, John, if you recall, I was having some issues where my Docker containers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my Mac mini were failing after a long time, especially after heavy network use. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when somebody, a listener had suggested Colima, which is, it’s like a, not a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey portmanteau, but it’s something about like containers for Linux on the Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey C-O-L-I-M-A or something like that. This is all command line stuff. There’s no fancy, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, GUI thing like Orbstack has, but it might be worth trying. I suspect

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you will run into the exact same problem as you were with Orbstack and with regular Docker desktop, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you could give that a shot. We’ll put a link in the show notes just in case.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and by the way, I did try all, we’ll put links in the show notes to these issues. I did try all the suggestions. There was all sorts of suggestions, how you

⏹️ ▶️ John can change the configuration of the Docker engine. Some people were saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, it’s Eero. Eero is advertising this IPv6 thing and doing it over and over again and screwing everything

⏹️ ▶️ John up. And some people said you should disable IPv6 entirely. I tried all these things. First of all, I looked at

⏹️ ▶️ John my Eero config and realized I had always had IPv6 off in my Eero config. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco tried with

⏹️ ▶️ John it on and tried with it off, but I’d always had that off. I also have the thread radio thing off on my Eero’s. I don’t know when I did

⏹️ ▶️ John that, but I agree with past me.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey But anyway, I did try switching them.

⏹️ ▶️ John I did try switching them and it didn’t make a difference. Then I turned IPv6 off on all my network interfaces on my Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t make a difference. I tried the like, there’s a bunch of config things in these things about

⏹️ ▶️ John setting fixed CIDR addresses for IPv6 or turning IPv6 off in

⏹️ ▶️ John the Docker engine, tried all those things, none of them worked. So, I mean, again, I don’t know what Docker’s

⏹️ ▶️ John doing to change the network, but nothing I have tried has stopped it. So yeah, and

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have much faith that Kolema would help considering Orbstack didn’t, but.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Agreed. But, you know, if you wanted to try yet another thing, you could. Yeah, no, I’ll just use

⏹️ ▶️ John Safari.

AirPods Pro earplug follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, we had a bunch of feedback with regard to AirPods Pro as hearing protection,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey including I’ve only started upgrade this week, but Jason

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apparently had a similar idea and went to a concert recently and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had a lot of the same experiences that Marco did. So we’ll put a link to upgrade in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show notes. But anyways, Wes wrote in, I was also curious and tried my AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro at a monster truck rally at the beginning of the year. Noise canceling could not handle it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It just filled my ears with static. I switched quickly over to earplugs, which I thought was kind of funny. Then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somebody sent us a link to noisyworld.org, which has all sorts of reviews about noise

⏹️ ▶️ Casey canceling things and dinguses and whatnot. And there’s a whole post about AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro for hearing protection there. And then finally, Samuel Levine writes, I’m a doctor.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am a neurotologist, neurotologist. Yeah, I think I have that right. who has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some expertise in concerts and hearing loss. I studied this problem of loud concerts. Without going into the whole

⏹️ ▶️ Casey science thing, we found that the start and the end of the concert is the loudest and most damaging to hearing. The type of music

⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t really matter. We tried a couple of different concerts. The position in the hall made no difference. Active noise cancellation really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does what it says. It really reduces the noise before it hits the eardrum. We tested a couple of different earplugs, which helped out,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but did not eliminate really loud sounds. Your lack of ringing is a sign of how well it worked. Ringing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a sign of hearing loss. Immediately after the concert, you’re seeing temporary threshold changes. Attending

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more concerts will convert it to permanent. A quick rule of thumb is that your hearing at eight kilohertz

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is roughly your age. If you get old enough, you lose appreciation of music, which sounds frigging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey terrible, but that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the reality. No, this was very good to hear, because I was very careful last time to say, like, look,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I used AirPods Pro as earplugs at a concert, and it seemed to work, and it seemed to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not hurt my ears and everything else. But I said, like, you know, I’m not a doctor, I don’t know for sure. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it was good to hear from actual doctors and actual people who know what they’re talking about that basically confirms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that yes, active noise cancellation, when it cancels out that noise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from reaching your ear, that does physically prevent it from harming the ear. Now, it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco attenuate all frequencies evenly. You know, if you’re like operating a jackhammer or working like next to a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco giant machine all day, like in some kind of like, you know, industrial or professional setting where you are constantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco needing real hearing protection all the time, or maybe if you go to a concert

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every weekend, or you run concerts for a living, or you are a musician for a living, and you’re always on stage,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in situations like that where you are always in very loud environments,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you should get something that’s purpose-built for that. Like, you should not be using your AirPods Pro for your only hearing protection in that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of situation. But, so far, the feedback seems to indicate that if you are an occasional concert-goer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like me, and you want easy hearing protection that also lets you hear the music very, very well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the AirPods Pro seem to work really well. And there seems to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be no major downsides, except, you know, as mentioned last time, it is a little bit weird in how it processes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sound sometimes. And it’s a little bit non-ideal, but it’s still way better than all the concert

⏹️ ▶️ Marco earplugs that I tried. So pretty cool to hear that the protection it offers, while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is not massive protection, it is real protection.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. Yeah, we also got a really long email from someone who worked in a symphony orchestra, plays in a symphony orchestra

⏹️ ▶️ John and apparently wearing earplugs in a symphony orchestra is a thing for all the musicians because it is very loud there

⏹️ ▶️ John at various points and he was also using airpods but with foam

⏹️ ▶️ John tips and his big suggestion one of his big suggestions in a very long email that unfortunately we couldn’t find

⏹️ ▶️ John a way to summarize here was that the fit of the thing that goes into your ear

⏹️ ▶️ John is really important to the noise blocking and so if you want to use

⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods Pro in a more serious capacity like you know, you’re going to for your job You’re gonna be in a symphony orchestra

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s super loud Don’t use the default things You can both get the better foam ones and also

⏹️ ▶️ John those ones where they make a mold of your ear canal so they’re custom fit just for you, that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John road you should be traveling down if you are chronically going to be in a very loud environment.

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Fall wishes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so let me remind you, like I said earlier, that we are recording this on the evening of Monday, October 16.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And depending on what rumors you are listening to, everything in the world is going to change

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the next couple of days.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Or nothing at all. Who knows? Or nothing at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, who really knows? But one of us, I think it was John, had a pretty good idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that we could sit here and try to predict what will happen, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what if we talked about instead what do we think should happen? And I think, John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was you who wrote, what hardware needs to be updated? So, John, since this is your topic, how do you want to quarterback

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so the rumor is partly because the rumor mill is such a mess for October.

⏹️ ▶️ John very often there’s an October event, and you get stuff that’s not the phone or the watch because those happen

⏹️ ▶️ John in September. Very often it’s Mac stuff, and we’re interested in that, or sometimes it’s iPad stuff. But this

⏹️ ▶️ John year, just the rumors are just so, either they’re inconsistent, where they’re flopping back and forth,

⏹️ ▶️ John or they’re sad, where they’re saying, hey, all the stuff that you were looking forward to, yeah, none of that stuff is happening this year.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all pushed off into 2024. And if we look back at the timelines for

⏹️ ▶️ John these things, I think we all kind of expected that the plain old M3 would be in something by now.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it seems like, I mean, again, you can’t say, oh, the schedule slipped. We don’t know the schedule. We just hear rumors.

⏹️ ▶️ John The rumored schedule slipped. There was rumors that the M3 would be out by now in something, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not. And so, you know, we all want to see the M3, and we figured

⏹️ ▶️ John the plain old unadorned, non-pro, non-max, non-ultra one would be the first one to come out, and there’s lots of machines

⏹️ ▶️ John that it could get it. But, you know, the rumors, all the rumors have been like, yeah, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John just that’s gonna be like spring next year or whatever. So anyway, whether or not there is an October event, whether or

⏹️ ▶️ John not new iPads and a new Apple Pencil are announced tomorrow as we record this, we don’t know. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it was worth thinking about, is there Apple hardware that’s like long in the tooth that

⏹️ ▶️ John really needs to be updated, whether or not it gets the M3 or not, or any hardware. Phones, obviously phones don’t need to

⏹️ ▶️ John be updated, iPads or whatever, like what should be up there? Why have an October event at all?

⏹️ ▶️ John Is there anything that Apple should update before the holiday season so that they have, let’s say less embarrassing

⏹️ ▶️ John products on the shelves to sell to people for the holidays.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, there are certain things in the Mac that we can point to like the iMac is weirdly old right now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think one of the ways to look at this is what still has an M1?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And of course the iMac is one of those things. But one of the more glaring things to me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is basically the entire iPad lineup is a little bit stale

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heading into the holiday season. And that’s weird because iPads are very often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco given as holiday gifts, or at least asked for as holiday gifts. And so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a little bit unusual and non-ideal to be heading into the holiday season

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with an iPad lineup that is somewhat aging and not that interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco On the high end, the iPad Pro has been updated, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhat recently. I believe it was, what, earlier this year when it got the M2?

⏹️ ▶️ John It got the Mac the Mac Pro new label from the beginning of this show new iPad Pro It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John very few changes since 2018 on the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pros You know they’ve they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgraded the guts I made a couple of little tweaks here and there but for the most part it hasn’t had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many changes since 2018 So the iPad Pro is a little bit boring in its

⏹️ ▶️ Marco design and basic physical characteristics because those haven’t changed in a while but the guts are decent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The iPad Air, I feel like, is kind of a weird lost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco product. So the iPad Air still has the M1, which at the time they gave it the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M1, seemed, it was actually a pretty big upgrade. Like the iPad Air, like stepping up to get the M1, was like, wow,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s kind of overpowered for that product. And it remains very powerful. I mean, the M1 and M2 really aren’t that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different from each other, but it is weird that it’s, that it’s only the M1 still, and it’s, you know, it’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slowly get outdated, you know. I wouldn’t feel great buying a brand new M1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco powered iPad today, you know, in late 2023, when I know that the M3s are on the horizon.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, I think I would, like for the iPads, I know the M1 is older, but like, I feel like that’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John especially for the non-pro iPads, an M1 and an iPad, it has the advantage of

⏹️ ▶️ John being less power hungry than the M2. And I think it has plenty of power for an iPad. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like the main problem with the iPad line, the things that need to be updated is,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s because they updated the lower end iPad to have like, remove the, where the FaceTime, or not the FaceTime camera, remove

⏹️ ▶️ John where the, did they just move the pencil attachment point on that one? I forget what they did to the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one. Well, the base model iPad, it was updated to basically have the modern shape. Like before this latest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco update to the base model

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it still had the home button. So the new iPad has the new screen shape, it supports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the magnetic pencil, I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s got the camera on the landscape side, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Uh, yeah. Oh, no, it does not support the magnetic pencil.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, like they gave a revision in where the guts are, where the external features are

⏹️ ▶️ John on the iPad to basically make it seem like more of a landscape device. And it only happened

⏹️ ▶️ John to the low end one and not to the Pro. And the Pro got like, oh, new guts, but everything is moved around. So it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John the iPad line is in this uncomfortable situation where there’s clearly new thinking about how to arrange

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff externally and internally on an iPad, but that new thinking has not spread to the entire

⏹️ ▶️ John line. And so I don’t think it’s the M1 that is holding back the iPad line and making it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like it needs to be updated. It’s the new thinking about how iPads work, but

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the pros, like I don’t think they desperately need to be updated because the M2 is fine

⏹️ ▶️ John and they just got updated semi-recently. So I wouldn’t put them on a list of, Hey, this is Apple really needs to update this because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John embarrassing. They’re selling an M2 iPad pro. We’re just anticipating it. We all want it, especially since OLED is rumored

⏹️ ▶️ John for it. So that’s a next year type product. And for any iPad that still has an M1,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that’s fine. It’s the ones that have like, those ones that have like an A14, I think the mini has the A14 or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the ones that have an A something chip that is a low number, they could go up by one or two. Those are the rumors

⏹️ ▶️ John by the way, that like maybe by the time you’re hearing this, they’ve already announced new A15 or A16 iPads or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. And that is a fine update for the holiday season, but I don’t expect them

⏹️ ▶️ John to come with a rejiggering of the internals and to allow for the Apple Pencil in a different

⏹️ ▶️ John way and all that, you know. If they find a way to deal with the magnetically

⏹️ ▶️ John attached Apple Pencil and the camera in the new position, if that comes to a non-iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John first and the iPad Pro is the last model to get, that’s gonna be kinda weird. But, yeah, the iPad is in an

⏹️ ▶️ John uncomfortable place, but I don’t think that part of the product

⏹️ ▶️ John line is desperate for an update at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think you’re right that it’s more about the inconsistencies within the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lineup that, you know, because they’ve been updated, because iPads are updated fairly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco infrequently, each individual model, I’m saying, is updated somewhat infrequently, and they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had these different ideas of, you know, first of all, of course, different pencil shapes and charging methods and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then, you know, USB-C or not, and, you know, whether it’s Touch ID, whether there’s a home button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the Touch ID side button, whether there’s Face ID, and now, as you mentioned, like whether the front camera is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the long side or the short side, they’ve been evolving a lot of this stuff over time, but because the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgrade cycle is not super, super fast, a lot of this stuff is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco transitional across the line. And so there’s all these ways that if you wanna know, like, well, how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does the iPad work? Or what accessory is compatible with the iPad? The answer is really complicated and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it should be much simpler than it is. So what I’m looking forward to is, it seems like the hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that has been updated most recently, has generally had its head in the right place.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’d like to see that go across the line more, but again, that might take a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while. And I think it forms a very confusing lineup for people. When you look at,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all, it’s hard to compare the iPads performance-wise, because the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco base iPad uses the A14, the iPad mini, which is smaller but more expensive, uses the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A15, then the iPad Air uses the M1, and the iPad Pro uses the M2, they cross

⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire chip families with different naming conventions, they cross

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that whole thing within what is ostensibly one product lineup, the iPad lineup.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then the capabilities are so weirdly different between them all. And there’s all these little asterisks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on, which one you buy, then that will mean X, Y, and Z. And it seems fairly confusing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even as a person who follows this stuff as a big part of my living,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I wasn’t looking at the Apple Compare page and you asked me like, what chip does the iPad mini have? I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have no idea. And I owned one! And I would have no idea. Like, it was, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a very strange lineup and there’s all these weird little inconsistencies and so I hope

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over the next cycle of updates, whenever that happens, I hope they start ironing them out. But all that is to say,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heading into the holiday season, unless the iPad lineup changes, which which is rumored to either change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significantly or not at all in like 12 hours. So we’ll see, but hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heading into the holiday season, I hope there is some kind of fresh new change to the iPad lineup. So far, the rumor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that it’s going to at least have a new pencil maybe. If that pans out, that sounds good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe, but that doesn’t sound like a big thing, that sounds like a small thing. So we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you know, not knowing what chip your iPad’s having, it is more towards my argument that it doesn’t actually matter

⏹️ ▶️ John as long as the chip is fast enough. like the iPads are not particularly demanding, even for things like games. Like I think

⏹️ ▶️ John most iPad games are tuned to be able to run on the inexpensive iPads because so many more of them

⏹️ ▶️ John sell. I don’t think that’s where these things need to be pulled up. There’s still that one that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John still on the old design with the home button, but I think part of the rumors for the new pencil

⏹️ ▶️ John are related to the same thing with the thing with the home button is lighting versus USB-C, right? Obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John everything in Apple’s line, we all presume, is going to shed lightning and go

⏹️ ▶️ John to USB-C. So if there is a new Apple Pencil, you know, the new iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John with the new arrangement of stuff still has the lightning Apple Pencil, right? Because it doesn’t have the magnetically attachment.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is there a USB-C equivalent of that kind of pencil or do they never ship one like

⏹️ ▶️ John that? Do they finally get rid of the last iPad with the home button or does it just keep going with the home

⏹️ ▶️ John button and lightning for longer until it gets replaced by a new design model? It is

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad-ish season, and we all want the updated iPad Pro with the OLED screen, because

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the fanciest, most expensive one. But yeah, the whole rest of the line is still kind of,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, so I don’t think, I think iPads can get away with a lot of older stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John in a ways that other products can’t. But we would like to see some revision here. But for

⏹️ ▶️ John an October event, I mean, the reason we’re talking about it at all is because every other thing that we’re gonna get to in a little bit,

⏹️ ▶️ John all the rumors are saying, yeah, you’re not getting any of that. So if we’re just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco well, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John they could fix some iPad stuff, but anyway, let’s move on to the Mac line.

⏹️ ▶️ John You mentioned the M1 iMac earlier. That’s super old. I don’t think the M1 is the problem

⏹️ ▶️ John on that computer line. I think it’s the RAM complements, right? Because again, I think the M1, I talked about

⏹️ ▶️ John this on one of our recent member specials. I think the M1 is still a phenomenal chip for

⏹️ ▶️ John Macs. It just needs to be adequately supported by everything else. and the M1

⏹️ ▶️ John iMac has a really nice screen, beautiful industrial design. It’s a fun computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think everything about it’s great except for SSD size and RAM, right? And those are the things that Apple doesn’t like to,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, move up as time marches on to our satisfaction. We’re not demanding

⏹️ ▶️ John the highest end of everything. It’s a very inexpensive computer, but it does need to keep up with the times. And so

⏹️ ▶️ John as the M1 iMac ages, the things that age about it the worst are the cost of the SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John options and the cost of the RAM sizes and how much RAM it comes with by default. That stuff ages. The

⏹️ ▶️ John M1, I think, is still fine. If someone could get an M1 iMac and feel like, I need more performance, no, they’re just gonna use it

⏹️ ▶️ John to, you can do everything on an M1. Like I was gonna say, you use to browse the web and read email. No, you can use

⏹️ ▶️ John Photoshop on the M1. It’s fine. Like, the M1 is not the problem. The M1 is phenomenal. It’s still,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, my favorite M chip, just because the M2 is better but also hotter

⏹️ ▶️ John and I feel like for lots of computers, that’s the wrong trade-off. And for this iMac, not that I wouldn’t love to

⏹️ ▶️ John see an M3 version, we all would, but the M1 is not the problem with that computer. So I think of all the computers

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple has, the M1 iMac is the one that most needs to be updated, but not in the way that

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is probably gonna update it. If they put an M2 in the new iMac, but

⏹️ ▶️ John keep the pricing for the SSD and RAM and keep the RAM limits all exactly the same, they haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ John updated that computer. Like no one’s saying, No one’s saying, I need the M2 in this thing. Just give, you know, they

⏹️ ▶️ John want more SSD space for less money, and they want more RAM for less money. And those

⏹️ ▶️ John are things that add to the longevity of a machine. It’s not like I gotta wait an extra 25 seconds for

⏹️ ▶️ John some batch job to finish because I have an M1 instead of an M2.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s fair. And I think ultimately, you know, the M1 iMac,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a huge success design-wise, but market-wise, I think this is this still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remains a relatively low profile product. Like I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think this is making headlines anymore past its its cool launch with all the cool colors and everything like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think and this has been true for a while. Apple sells a decent number of low-end iMacs, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to fairly undemanding customers typically like they’re usually buying it for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the form factor and the look and not necessarily having cutting edge hardware or high-end specs.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that’s why I think it’s okay for this line to be one of those ones that skips. It’s gonna go M1, then M3, then M5.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s perfectly adequate. You know, like that’s, you don’t need to be, that one doesn’t need to be updated every single year. And people like,

⏹️ ▶️ John but just when you do update it, I mean, again, I don’t like, obviously they’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John make an M3 version of that eventually, right? And that will be great and they should. I hope. Yeah, eventually, not

⏹️ ▶️ John in October probably. But when they go to update them on whatever schedule

⏹️ ▶️ John they think, you know, what kind of update schedule is justifiable given the low sales volume of the iMac. Is it every

⏹️ ▶️ John two years? Is it every three years? Whatever it is, when they do that update, don’t just keep the RAM and SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John space the same because that really, that’s the thing that hurts people who want to buy inexpensive computers

⏹️ ▶️ John the most. They shouldn’t be so terribly punished for buying the low-end model to be

⏹️ ▶️ John constantly running out of space to constantly pressing up on it. Like, isn’t the default like eight gigs

⏹️ ▶️ John of RAM or something on that? And I know everyone has all these fantasy notions about how the

⏹️ ▶️ John ARM CPUs need less RAM or whatever. That’s not really a thing. They’re just very fast

⏹️ ▶️ John and good and have fast SSDs,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right? But just,

⏹️ ▶️ John you gotta keep up with the pace of change in the industry every

⏹️ ▶️ John few years. Like, I’m not saying every year, but like two, three, four years past, reconsider.

⏹️ ▶️ John Reconsider how much it costs to get a 512 gig SSD or a one terabyte.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can you imagine a consumer product with a one terabyte SSD, like a $500 PlayStation 5, come on people.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple really needs to get on the ball. This is one of the things that hurts their line the most. So

⏹️ ▶️ John should they update the M1 iMac? Yes, they should. And if they kept the M1,

⏹️ ▶️ John but just doubled the RAM and SSD for the same price, I would say that’s a perfectly good update for the holiday season.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I see, I don’t think I agree with you. And all right, I’m trying to say like seven sentences

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all at the same time. So I agree with you that in actuality, the M1 is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more than sufficient. I, I 100% agree with you, but if I’m a consumer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I was going to say, Oh, if I’m a normal person, but even as me, even as Casey, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would be hard for me to willingly buy a machine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that has a, you know, one and a half to two year old CPU. Like, you know, that that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey means something new is eminent and I’m not, I’m just not going to want to do that, especially if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m spending the kind of money that a computer costs.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The older these main processors are, the less likely I am to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to buy one. And I think that’s true for regular people too. If they’d spend even a modicum of time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey researching, I think that they would say the same thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I mean, they buy these iPads with these ancient phone chips in them. They don’t care. I feel like the

⏹️ ▶️ John M1 iMac is at that point. They like the colors. They don’t really care what, I

⏹️ ▶️ John agree that, you know, obviously we all on this program think, yeah, it should have an M3, right? It’s time,

⏹️ ▶️ John like I think every other year is a reasonable cycle for that machine or something, but I don’t know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, that’s a good question, but certainly people don’t shop for iPads that way. You see people buying iPads, if you even try to tell

⏹️ ▶️ John them what’s inside it, they do not care, right? That’s just how much does it cost? How big is the screen? Can I get a case on it that

⏹️ ▶️ John will, my kid won’t break? Like, it’s only when you get into the tech nerd stuff and

⏹️ ▶️ John that people start even asking what the processor is. Now, Macs are different than iPads, and I agree with that, and maybe people can

⏹️ ▶️ John look at an M and see a number and understand that higher is better. But I think the big convincer

⏹️ ▶️ John would be, if you’re in an Apple store, sit down in front of the computer and use it. Like, there’s nothing you can do with that in an Apple store that’s gonna make

⏹️ ▶️ John someone who wants to buy that computer make it seem like it seems slow. And again, it should upgrade to an M3 or,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, hell, if you wanna go M1 to M4, skip four, I don’t care what your cadence is. Pick

⏹️ ▶️ John a cadence that is justified by the things that you sell, But when you do that update, do it for real.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if we wanted to be really greedy, we’d say, hey, while you’re selling that M1 model for whatever number of years

⏹️ ▶️ John until you decide to do the revision, imagine during that span that you actually upgraded

⏹️ ▶️ John the base RAM and storage prices. Imagine that! That’s so unheard of for Apple. But I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the place where they should do that is the low end. That’s what we complain about all the time because we, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re charging so much money for this eight terabyte SSD that we wanna buy or whatever. But the low end is where it hurts

⏹️ ▶️ John the most. We see it for everybody used to get phones with too little storage, right? Or someone fills up their

⏹️ ▶️ John computer and they have no idea what to do. And it’s like, and the answer for these things is like, well, buy a new computer

⏹️ ▶️ John or learn how to boot from an external drive or like, it’s just, it’s so complicated. So I really feel like this

⏹️ ▶️ John is the weakest part of the Mac line. And when I look at the other parts of the Mac line,

⏹️ ▶️ John things are looking great. The laptops, do any of us have any complaints about the

⏹️ ▶️ John laptops going into the holiday season? I don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, the laptop line is great. I mean, you know, we’re all like, you know, hoping for cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M3 updates soon, but we don’t like, we’re not really like overdue for them yet. Like it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, like if someone you knew got one of the existing ones, would you be like, oh no, you made a mistake. Don’t buy

⏹️ ▶️ John that, the new ones are coming out. No way. We would say they’re great. You got a great computer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep, I agree. One area that I think is kind of specialized, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really, really needs to be updated. The AirPods Max.

⏹️ ▶️ John Hmm, that’s true. I forgot that those exist. They’re gonna be updated right alongside the big HomePod.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, no, well, look, I think the AirPods Max, first of all, even though there’s a lot of problems with that product,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think their owners seem to like them a lot. Certainly Tiff likes hers, and I know a lot of people who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like theirs. And also, I would guess they have probably sold way more AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maxs than they ever sold first gen HomePods. But the AirPods Max,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at how they compare to the recent AirPods Pro. So the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Max have the H1 chip, like the original AirPods. The AirPods Pro now have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco H2, and that gives them a few different advantages, like some of the more advanced processing modes and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like that, that the AirPods Max don’t have. And the AirPods Max

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also have, I would say a number of significant design flaws.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We all make fun of how terrible that weird case is for them. The whole like, you know, the case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and charging situation is really bad. There are also still lightning ports to charge and to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do anything else with. So, you know, I would love to see an AirPods Max update that starts to address

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not only the need to move to USB-C and hopefully an update to the H2 chip, but maybe some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the other design issues that they had. So, for instance, they’re way too heavy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they use way too much metal that’s itself contributing to them being way too heavy. and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case is terrible. They don’t fold, they’re terrible for travel. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just so many reasons why that product, it had a lot of own goals and they were unnecessary.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I would love to see a version two of the AirPods Max that updates it to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco modern tech and hopefully tackles some of its design problems.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mentioned the big HomePod because that also was like a first product of its kind,

⏹️ ▶️ John had a lot of problems and Apple did not seem interested in updating it for a very

⏹️ ▶️ John long time. And I hope that doesn’t happen to the Macs because it’s like, hey, good first

⏹️ ▶️ John try, can’t wait to see your second try. And it’s like, all right, maybe we’ll just sell this thing for a few more years

⏹️ ▶️ John and discontinue it and then come up with a new one. I don’t know, what’s the plan? It seems like they should have

⏹️ ▶️ John already had a second revision by now, but I would put that on the list of things that have a lightning port that shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore. It’s a big long line of those. It’s not a reason to update them is not saying, oh, you shouldn’t buy one

⏹️ ▶️ John now, we’re in a transition period, I get it. But yeah, the AirPods Max is a good choice because

⏹️ ▶️ John how long has it been?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s more than a year, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think two years ago. It was, remember that was also released shortly before the holiday season and it was very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difficult to get them because they sold out very quickly. Because it’s a great holiday gift

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s a good product.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But that is a product where if somebody bought AirPods Max today, I might be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, oh no, you should have waited because they’re getting outdated.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean, that’s kind of like buying an Apple monitor now. It’s like, well, yeah, it is outdated, but we really have no idea when they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John ever gonna make

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco another one. So why not roll the

⏹️ ▶️ John dice? I mean, look, we haven’t mentioned the studio display, but like, I mean, we have something in the notes about a competitor that

⏹️ ▶️ John we probably won’t get to today. But the studio display, like whenever you buy an Apple monitor, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not cost competitive. But in the case of Retina Resolution large monitors,

⏹️ ▶️ John A, it may be your only reasonable game in town, and B, don’t worry about them replacing it. Cause yeah, they will

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually, but chances are good it’s not gonna be this year or the next year. So just buy it, right? And someone’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John be unlucky. Someone’s gonna lose the lottery. They’re gonna be like, they said, just buy it. So I bought it and then a new one came out next month. Yeah, it’s gonna happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John But like, look at the cadence between Apple revising its monitors over many, many, many

⏹️ ▶️ John years. The gaps are long, right? Maybe they shouldn’t be, but again,

⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s some cost to develop these products and Apple tends not

⏹️ ▶️ John to do the thing where they like revise the panels within them. They don’t seem to like to do the thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John so many other technology companies do. Even in more cutthroat, lower margin businesses,

⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe it’s because they’re cutthroat, lower margin businesses, they’re revising it like, oh, if there’s a new, better panel available

⏹️ ▶️ John for our televisions, of course, next year we’re gonna put in the new, better panel. Why wouldn’t we? And Apple would be like, no, we’re gonna, if Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John sold the TV, they’d be like, yeah, we’re gonna sell this TV for four more years. And then we’ll put in a much better panel, but during

⏹️ ▶️ John those four years, we won’t drop the price and it’ll be a four-year-old panel and every other TV will be better than us. Maybe that’s why Apple didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John make a TV, but it just, it is, it boggles my mind that they’ll just sell

⏹️ ▶️ John the same monitor for the same price for so long. And you know, the monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John world moves on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the real-time follow-up, the AirPods Max are three years old, not two.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my. So you’re not getting an XDR update for the holiday season then?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, who knows when that’s gonna happen? Like, it feels like the higher end of the things are,

⏹️ ▶️ John the longer it is between updates, which is not really the way it should work.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would even say like the XDR, I would not assume that it ever gets an update. It might,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope it does, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it never did. They

⏹️ ▶️ John just stopped selling a monitor or they sell like a bigger one or something?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t, I mean, I don’t know how successful a product has been. Like I love mine, I wouldn’t give it up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the world, but I don’t know how many other people are buying this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think its margins are typical Apple margins. the volumes are low, but the margins are.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, they’re very healthy. The margins are very healthy. I know,

⏹️ ▶️ John and so it’s low volume, but the margins I feel like justify. I mean, this is the problem with all of their high-end products

⏹️ ▶️ John is like, can Apple, you know, get motivated? Can Apple get

⏹️ ▶️ John out of the bed in the morning for something that sells less than a jillion copies? And it’s like, well, do you want to be in this market

⏹️ ▶️ John at all? I mean, the current Mac Pro is not encouraging in that area. So I don’t know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we’re not even talking about when that thing’s it’s gonna be revised for the M3 Ultra or whatever. And speaking of the M3

⏹️ ▶️ John though, all the rumors, and again, I don’t keep track of what the exact cadences are but all the rumors

⏹️ ▶️ John before were like, oh, by this point we’ll be getting the plain M3 and then in spring we’d get the M3 Pro and

⏹️ ▶️ John M3 Max and then after that we’d get the Ultra and like the sort of expected cadence of how

⏹️ ▶️ John things come out. But with the M3, by all accounts, you know, again, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re listening to this, it already happened and we’re wrong, but anyway, by all accounts, people don’t expect any M3

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. this year by the rumors, right? But I feel like they should be here by now.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the fact that they’re not makes me worry. What’s the deal with, what’s the deal with it? We know the three nanometer

⏹️ ▶️ John process is here. They’re selling it on the phone or whatever, but is there some problem with the M3?

⏹️ ▶️ John Did the schedule slip for some reason? Does that mean that, you know, should, let’s put

⏹️ ▶️ John it this way. Are they gonna ship something with M3 Pro and M3 Max before plain old M3? That seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like ridiculous to me, but I’m just wondering what their schedules are.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My guess is that the M3 almost certainly needs three nanometer production.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a bigger chip than the phone versions and then the M3 Pro and Max and Ultra are even bigger versions of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And my guess is they intentionally scheduled the M3 to be next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year, not this fall, so that they could get, so they could reserve all that three nanometer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco capacity for the iPhone Pros for this year. And so my guess is it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always planned for next year. And then furthermore, there’s the Vision Pro. Now this affects

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of what we were just talking about in terms of excitement, holidayness, things like that. Vision

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro is, they keep saying it’s still on track to be launched, quote, early next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John year.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s five nanometer M2, not M3. Correct.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I can’t see them announcing that as an M2 product

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s going to launch after nice, cool M3 products.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think what’s going to happen is they’re going to launch the Vision Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with its M2 chip before any M3 products are released. And I don’t think they’re holding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back the M3 products to make the Vision Pro look good. I think it was always planned that way.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I don’t think they care about the comparison across those lines. And also, I think the Vision Pro has so many difficulties

⏹️ ▶️ John in getting to market that it’s just going to slip and end up going past them anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John Everyone thinks the M3 Pro and the Pro and Max

⏹️ ▶️ John laptops are gonna come early next year sometime. They’re basically the time that we expected

⏹️ ▶️ John them to come. And those are sort of the important products. And by the way, I think by that point, I don’t know the details,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think by that point, TSMC would be onto the new three nanometer revision, like M3B

⏹️ ▶️ John or something instead of M3E. I can’t keep track of these things.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, the

⏹️ ▶️ John other one. Yeah, the better one. And that would make sense if you’re gonna make a bigger chip you want, the one that has better

⏹️ ▶️ John yields. If that is still on track, I still have trouble figuring out when are the plain old

⏹️ ▶️ John M3 products going to arrive? Right, because if they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not coming now, and are they gonna come at the same time as the M3 Pro and Max ones? Or are they going to come

⏹️ ▶️ John in the spring and the M3 Pro and Max ones are pushed out later in the year? We’re getting off

⏹️ ▶️ John track of like, Apple October event one needs to be updated. It’s clear that a lot of times don’t need to be updated. Again, they’re all,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re great. the CPUs that are in them, their features, their prices, the compliments of RAM, SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John space, everything about them is fine. They don’t have lightning ports. Like they do not need to be updated,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it would be exciting if in an October event, we got

⏹️ ▶️ John M3 something and all the rumors being so strongly against us having it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just, you know, make it kind of a sad event. Not that I don’t care about revised iPads,

⏹️ ▶️ John but especially if it’s a revised iPad, as we discussed, that they’re revised in a way that doesn’t clarify

⏹️ ▶️ John and unify the line, which we don’t expect it to. They’re just gonna be, you know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John good that they have updates, spec bump internals. It’s good that they’re not as old as they used to be. Prices are probably about the same, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fine. But it is not satisfying. And the only rumor

⏹️ ▶️ John of anything new that I’ve heard is the Apple Pencil 3, and honestly, I’m not excited about

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I’m not excited about magnetic tips. I’m not excited about if it was lightning versus USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ John changeover. I just, I don’t know. So it’s not, you know, it’s hard to talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about this because again, we’re recording on Monday and by the time you hear this, maybe the event already happened, you know what it was, but

⏹️ ▶️ John going into it, I’m not very excited.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am curious to see if the, you know, if there is a new Apple Pencil, I think that actually could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be interesting. In the sense, it wouldn’t be something that I’m going to use every day because I hardly ever use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the one I have because I can’t draw, but it’s the kind of product that I look at and I see a lot of uses for other people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco including in my own household. Both the other members of my household use Apple Pencils regularly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what is a third-gen Apple Pencil? Maybe it can possibly work with future

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large iPhones. Who knows? Maybe they change the way it charges to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more compatible. Maybe they change some of the other physical aspects of it. Maybe they add an eraser.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who knows? There’s so many different things. Maybe they put a button on the side, finally, for the love of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God, instead of having these weird tap gestures that you always accidentally click. Like, there are lots of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways that product could be improved. That’s actually interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so you’re casting about for an Apple Pencil, which is at least slightly likely to happen. Meanwhile,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m looking at the displays page on Apple’s website, and I just keep thinking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to myself, you know what would be really cool is a high refresh rate studio display. I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey love that. It’s not gonna happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John No.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey At least not soon.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why would the studio display get higher refresh rate before the XDR because it’s got fewer pixels to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey refresh quicker No, that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more people buy it. I mean that more people buy it Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why are you so grumpy? What’s out? Tell me why I’m wrong

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I mean some first of all, like as people have pointed out and this is this

⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of silly But if you look what Apple is done and make some sense, they called it ProMotion and I know it’s not pro with

⏹️ ▶️ John the space It’s ProMotion squished together, right? It’s capital P capital, right? But it does have

⏹️ ▶️ John pro in the name. And that’s kind of like it’s being withheld from the non pro

⏹️ ▶️ John phones, which at this point, I mean, eventually look, if they keep calling

⏹️ ▶️ John it pro, like are they gonna say a non pro iPhone is never gonna have 120 Hertz screen? I think that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s inevitable. It will have to just eventually it will have to. So they will have to break this rule,

⏹️ ▶️ John this quote unquote unwritten rule. Like it has pro in the name, only goes on pro products, but high refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rate, like that makes things more expensive. To take advantage

⏹️ ▶️ John of it, you need a powerful GPU that is capable of displaying something that you’d want to see besides the UI

⏹️ ▶️ John at something higher than 60 frames per second. I don’t see that going to the studio

⏹️ ▶️ John first. The studio doesn’t even have real HDR yet for crying out loud. And you think it’s going to go ProMotion?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, you’re right, technically, that they could put ProMotion on it easier than they could put HDR, like as in

⏹️ ▶️ John for less money, but that would be such a weird, a weird

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of counter to their market segmentation, essentially. Like the pro things have these features and the non-pro things don’t, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the way it works. I would much rather see a studio display that remains 60 Hertz,

⏹️ ▶️ John but has HDR, because as far as I’m concerned, for the people who buy that monitor, HDR

⏹️ ▶️ John is gonna be more beneficial because they can see all the pictures they take on their iPhones on their big Mac screen, the

⏹️ ▶️ John way they’re supposed to be seen in HDR, just like they see them on their phone screen. and who

⏹️ ▶️ John needs 120 Hertz? Like, oh, scrolling is smoother in a way that only a few nerds can tell? Or

⏹️ ▶️ John can you find a game that can even render it more than 60 frames a second that you care about, that runs on your

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac, that you have a studio display attached to? So yeah, but anyway, it’s all a moot point because that studio

⏹️ ▶️ John display is not gonna be updated for another Star Trek Clocks four years, let’s say. I don’t know. Remember the rumors

⏹️ ▶️ John when it was like, as soon as Casey bought it, they were gonna update it for HDR with a mini LED?

⏹️ ▶️ John That didn’t happen. I was so excited because, hey, it’s a new world. Apple’s releasing monitors. Maybe they won’t do it like they used

⏹️ ▶️ John to. Maybe they will revise this, but so far they seem to be on the old Apple monitor update

⏹️ ▶️ John track, which is very slow. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I just think, I agree with you that HDR would also be great. I’m not as convinced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about your segmentation theory, but I mean, por que no los dos? Give me HDR and fast refresh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rate. Why not, baby? I’ll take both. It’s not gonna happen, or at least not anytime soon, but I’ll take

⏹️ ▶️ Casey both. I don’t know, what else? Is there anything else you need to talk about? Do we have that covered? Are we good now? Because watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is new, phones are new. We talked about iPad and Mac, Vision Pro ain’t out yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John HomePod. Apple TV. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, I don’t know what they would do to the Apple TV other than a-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wasn’t it actually updated fairly recently? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was a few months ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I know. You can just keep putting a bigger and faster SOC in it so people can play better games on their remote

⏹️ ▶️ John as a controller. I don’t know, like.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the HomePod mini is slightly old, but it’s not old enough, like it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. And they’re not gonna update it to anything that people actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want. I don’t know, I’m kinda down on that. I’m kinda living the Sonos lifestyle now, I’m kinda down on my HomePod.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey When are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we talking about that? I wanna talk about it. Eventually.

⏹️ ▶️ John Ugh. Yeah, one more.

Rumored iPhone-updater pads

⏹️ ▶️ John One more interesting topic for today that I thought was just strange and hilarious and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going around the internet as of this Monday

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John that is uh, mark german had a rumor. Uh, the title This is apple ready system to load

⏹️ ▶️ John up latest software onto unopened iphones. Here it is according from german Apple is planning a new

⏹️ ▶️ John system for its retail stores that will update the software on iphones prior to sale The company

⏹️ ▶️ John has developed a proprietary pad like device that the store can place boxes of iphones on top

⏹️ ▶️ John of The system can then wirelessly turn on the phone, update its software, and then power it back

⏹️ ▶️ John down all without the phone’s packaging ever being opened. The company aims to begin rolling this out

⏹️ ▶️ John to its stores before the end of the year.” So at first I saw this and I was like, this

⏹️ ▶️ John is a joke, right? Like we all know the problem. You get a phone, you take it out of the box, and the first

⏹️ ▶️ John thing it needs to do is run a software update because it was manufactured two weeks ago or whatever. And there’s been an update since then. In fact,

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ve had situations where a new iPhone comes out and everyone’s like, Before you even try to transfer, this year, right? Before you even

⏹️ ▶️ John try to transfer data from your old phone, make sure you update the OS. Like it’ll prompt you to do it and do it, right? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t, the transfer could fail, blah, blah, blah, right? This is always the problem with hardware. You have to put,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple has to put an operating system on all these phones, put them in boxes, seal them up,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you know, during that time, they get sealed up and they’re being sent to you.

⏹️ ▶️ John New versions of the operating system come out. Maybe critical fixes come out. And so they’re, you know, I understand why Apple wants this.

⏹️ ▶️ John The thing I immediately thought of before considering the silliness of this whole thing is like Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John move from air to sea. Instead of shipping things by plane, which puts a lot more carbon

⏹️ ▶️ John in the atmosphere, they want to ship things by boat, which is much more efficient in terms of carbon per phone

⏹️ ▶️ John shipped. Boats are way slower, which means you have to have even

⏹️ ▶️ John more lead time. So instead of making them in a week before and putting whatever the OS is a week before,

⏹️ ▶️ John Now you gotta put the OS that’s on them two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, a month. That

⏹️ ▶️ John really hurts Apple’s lead times on when the operating system needs to be done. Unless,

⏹️ ▶️ John when the boxes arrive in the Apple Store, you can put each one in turn on top

⏹️ ▶️ John of a magic pad that will turn on the iPhone inside the box and update

⏹️ ▶️ John the OS and then turn it off. Now, the obvious problem is the

⏹️ ▶️ John OS update doesn’t wanna run on phones if your battery is too low. it’ll be like, sorry, I can’t run

⏹️ ▶️ John this update. You better plug in your phone. What is it, 50% charge that it demands?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco There’s some- I think

⏹️ ▶️ John so, yeah. When you get a phone out of a box, it doesn’t have 100% charge. It usually has more than 50.

⏹️ ▶️ John And presumably, they’ll do the smart thing and say, hey, if you put this box, this phone on top

⏹️ ▶️ John of this box, this magic pad, and it wakes up the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John and determines that it has 49% charge, it will refuse to update it. But if that’s the case, what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the point of this system? you’re either gonna make sure all the phones are updated or you’re only gonna make sure the

⏹️ ▶️ John lucky phones are updated. The ones that happen to retain enough charge on their journey across the sea,

⏹️ ▶️ John they can be updated. So when you get a phone, you never know what you’re gonna get until you open it. Was it one of the lucky ones that was able

⏹️ ▶️ John to be updated? Nevermind if something goes wrong with the process or it goes into like a boot loop inside

⏹️ ▶️ John the box or whatever and you open up this box and you get a weird software DOA brick phone because they hosed it by

⏹️ ▶️ John putting on top of a little magic pad at the Apple stores. I’m not sure this is the right solution to this problem,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it is very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco neat sounding. I had the same thought of like the power question. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are they going to somehow power the phones?

⏹️ ▶️ John Just put a little hole in the side of the box and you can shove a camera.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, right. I mean, Qi charging is a thing and I know it’s not supposed to be the range that we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about here, but.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s, you put the iPhone really close to the bottom of the box.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Maybe this is the, it’s the air power thing or whatever. What was it called? The plate thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s coming back around.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, if, remember it wasn’t, there was that startup for like, I forget what it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was called, P-Cell, wasn’t it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is-

⏹️ ▶️ John Power over air, yeah, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like, I don’t think that ever went anywhere, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have a significant problem of powering, and so, John, what you were saying was basically assuming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they probably wouldn’t be able to power it. But that’s my first thought, is like if they can’t power the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this really going to work? And then second of all, how long does this take?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for each box to take its turn on top of the pad, right? Right, and do the stores have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the time and to handle the volume of phones they’re selling to put every phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco through this

⏹️ ▶️ John process? Like 40 minutes, like how long does it take to do an OS update, like 30 minutes sometimes? I mean, the

⏹️ ▶️ John smaller ones take less

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco time. Yeah, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not super fast. And are they just going to image some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the, or stick some of the phones through this process and maybe have to bypass it for others? Like, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then how do you keep, I guess you keep track of which ones, because you’d put them on it. Like you can, to be clear, you can’t, there are ways

⏹️ ▶️ John to deliver power to a phone even when it’s in the middle of the box, but a lot of them involve potential heat. Yeah, right? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s again, you’re like, do you really wanna be messing with a phone that’s in a box at all? Like it just,

⏹️ ▶️ John I almost feel like the hole in the box that you can plug them in is actually the better solution to this, because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just, it’s straightforward and then you don’t have to worry about power, but wow, so, so weird.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like this is, and maybe this has nothing to do with the boats, but this is such a weird problem to be tackling

⏹️ ▶️ John and in such a weird way, and in a way that just seems like it couldn’t possibly really, really

⏹️ ▶️ John solve the problem. It can make it better, but in exchange for having this weird phone box,

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess the phone box lottery already exists because the ones in the factories now are getting a new version of the US versus the ones that shipped

⏹️ ▶️ John in the original thing. So maybe that’s not as bad as I think it is, but what a weird

⏹️ ▶️ John thing to even think about doing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I think if this is something that you wanna do, I think it’s possible to do it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco correctly and well. I think you would have to have power delivery and that could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be achieved if you redesign the packaging to put the phone’s charging cable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco charging coil, near the bottom of the box. But that’s kind of a strange packaging design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then. I mean, like there’s other things, like you’d have to like, you know, lift the cable off the front or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, you could have a thing plugged into it. You could have like a little thing plugged into it. Like, it’s kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John the Xbox Elite controller when you put it in its case, It has a little, well it has like a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco little hole for

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco plug. Like you

⏹️ ▶️ John could have a thing plugged into the USB-C port, like a little ribbon thing that’s just for packaging, it’s not a real thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John that goes down to the bottom of the box and has like an inductive coil in the cardboard or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just realized, if you just put the phone upside down, like put the phone upside down on the box so that you open it up, you see the Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco logo inside of the screen, and then put it really close to the lid, and then you could put the box upside down.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, you don’t want it close to the lid though for breakability reasons, right? Like you do want it to-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, if it’s the back, it’s pretty sturdy. I don’t know. This is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a very convoluted thought process to try to solve this problem, but it’s like, how big of a problem is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, and does it deserve this really convoluted solution that I don’t know how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the retail staff is going to deal with this. It just seems like a very cumbersome process,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if the pad is fully automated, to have to put every single phone that’s going to be sold to customers through this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco process. I don’t know. That sounds That sounds difficult. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree with everything you guys are saying, but to play the role of contrarian, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we talked about on the show, I don’t remember if I just told you guys privately, but when I went to return the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine woven case on like Wednesday or something like that, or no, no, I was at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Apple store for some other reason. I can’t remember what it was. Oh, no, it was to pick up the case. That’s what it was. I picked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up the case on Wednesday. The film was coming out two days later, and I was making conversation with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey salesperson and I asked, Oh, you know, when do you get all the phones in? Do they arrive like, you know, Thursday night or whatever?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And he was like, no, they’re here now on Wednesday. And so if that’s a normal thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that gives you two additional days. You know, if they came in sometime like midday Wednesday or whatever, they could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey spend all afternoon and all evening Wednesday and all day Thursday and all, you know, overnight Friday,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting all these phones ready to hand to customers. Again, I’m not trying to say that you guys are wrong. I’m just saying it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey possible. Also, how does, how does the watch work? Like is everything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flashed during manufacturing or do they have something like this before it goes in the box? Does it happen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey after it’s in the box? Because I got to imagine they’ve got to have already conquered this for the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey potentially, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the way, real time follow up. I just checked an unboxing video. Modern iPhones already ship face

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down in the box. So they actually are, the back of the iPhone where the charging cable is, is actually already

⏹️ ▶️ Marco close to the top edge of the box.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hmm, that’s interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, obviously they’ll get it close just for the data transfer and the waking up. Like it has, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John some signaling has to happen through the thing. I just wonder if it’s close enough for power without a lot of potential for heat.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I guess they could have, you know, a huge fleet of these pads. And so you’re doing many of them in parallel and

⏹️ ▶️ John you just have people rotating the boxes every time something beeps. Like you can come up with solutions to this, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s, I mean, that’s why I had to think it had to be in service of the boat shipment thing, because why would

⏹️ ▶️ John you go through all this trouble? And maybe it’s just like, it’s not feasible to hit the September date with boats if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not willing to ship the phones from the factory with an OS that you essentially know isn’t final. And maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John they really will say, look, either you successfully updated by putting it on the little pad or you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John sell it. Right, because they’ll ship with, you know, whatever the beta is, or like, I don’t know what they would ship with, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think they’ve sold it for the phone to answer your question, or for the watch to answer your question, Casey. I think it’s the same deal. They put whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John OS they have at the time on the watches. And if you buy a watch that’s been sitting in the back of an Apple store for ages, it’s got some

⏹️ ▶️ John ancient version of watch OS on it. It almost seems like, I mean, we’re not at this point now, But like in some future

⏹️ ▶️ John they could ship them with essentially nothing and they would all just like boot and do internet recovery the first Time they boot up so they don’t even come with

⏹️ ▶️ John an OS, you know what I mean? But I think people would find that tremendously frustrating

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey given how

⏹️ ▶️ John long it takes would take to do that, you know But at this point it’s almost like that. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, it comes out of the box with an OS but It demands to be updated as soon

⏹️ ▶️ John as you open the box now I suppose if it’s not like a problem like it was for the 15s where I wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John do it could fail during data transfer Or yeah, you could say, yeah, I’ll update you later. Just

⏹️ ▶️ John transfer my data and then you get prompted that night to update or it updates overnight on

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone. I think that’s something that people are normally used to, but if they really

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna give themselves more breathing room when shipping the phones,

⏹️ ▶️ John whether it’s for a boat trip or not, just to have more breathing room so they can work

⏹️ ▶️ John on the software up until the very last minute, I think they’d have to say that, that like,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, we’re going to update them all. Like don’t sell it unless you can put it on this little pad and it confirms it’s got like

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever the minimum OS is where we say you can sell the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this episode by Collide. If you work in security or

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco our show.

#askatp: Pick 3 focal lengths

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s do some Ask ATP. And we’re going to start with Luke Asquith, who writes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you could choose any three fixed focal lengths in your phone, which would you choose? Would you go for maximum range at the expense

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of doing a lot of digital zooming in between steps or a closer trio for maximum quality with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the photos you take the most often? And a follow-up question, if Apple introduced a fourth lens to the Ultra Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Max phone next year, what do you think they would choose? For me, this is really tough to choose just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three because I adore the 5X on my fancy new oversized phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but there are definitely occasions where I want something more than one and something less than five.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like if I had to pick, I would probably choose one, three, and five,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I’m not at all confident about my answer here. And I bet you, after listening to you two, I’ll probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey change my mind.

⏹️ ▶️ John Wait, one, three, and five?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, why not? Because I want to get- No wide?

⏹️ ▶️ John I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t you know if I if I only get three I don’t think so if I get four absolutely But I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use the ultra wide that often I don’t think and but maybe um maybe I’m lying to myself.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know tell me what what is the right answer Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had a really hard time with this honestly In the in the past when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when the 2x didn’t have a great solution I would have said that should be one of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but now I feel like the using of the middle of the 1x sensor as the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 2x lens has pretty decent quality given that’s what it’s doing and it has better quality than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the real 2x lens has ever had. So I think they’re satisfying that okay for now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I think I’m going to go with the boring answer and say I would probably choose the three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco focal lengths that your phone already has. Not mine. has you know the the point five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one and three and I find the three to be both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know to zoomed in to be optically good in the sense that the phone can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give it a good sensor at that zoomed in level but not zoomed in enough for for long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reach you know at least the 5x lens that you have while it has the same like you know sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size and optical challenges that the 3x has it at least gives you more reach so it makes it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little more useful from a functional level and and I you know a lot of people like there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a great episode of Mac power users Tyler Stallman was on it and he’s a really great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photographer and he was talking all about the lenses and one point that he brought up is that you know from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a photographer’s point of view the 120 millimeter equivalent 5x lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco compared to like the like 77 ish millimeter equivalent of the 3x the 3x

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens is actually it’s close to 85 millimeters which is a much more commonly used focal length

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by photographers for things like portraits. Whereas 120 is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much more zoomed in than most photographers use for most creative needs. That becomes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much more like telephoto use, long reach stuff. I mentioned that I personally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love shooting on 135mm primes, but that’s fairly unusual. Most photographers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they go to 85mm for that and for the same things I was using 135mm for. I think a lot of photographers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would say, add an 85. You know, that’s like having a one, the 85 would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a 3.5 or whatever, and then maybe something longer if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want. But I actually really like 135 millimeter perspective. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve had 85s before back at my camera days, and I never used them. Like I would try it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here and there, I was never that happy with it, and so I used them very infrequently.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m weird in the sense that I actually want the lenses that Apple just delivered for your phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I want them in a phone the size of mine. Now the follow-up question, if they added a fourth lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next year to the Ultra or Pro, what do you think they would choose? That’s of course

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different from what I would choose, but I think what Apple would choose,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it depends on what they can fit, but it wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprise me if instead of having, like on the big phone, If they, instead of having 0.5, one, and five,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe they do something like 0.5, one, three, and six.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Put something in the middle and push the telephoto a little bit further out.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, no, no, if they do four, what do you think they would choose? First, I don’t think they were gonna do four, but if they did,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re gonna do 0.5, one, one, and three.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, for video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John capture for? For Vision Pro, for

⏹️ ▶️ John two 1X cameras for Vision Pro stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like, assuming that

⏹️ ▶️ John catches on in any way, having two of the best cameras that are equal cameras to do a Vision

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro capture. I mean, if Vision Pro fizzles, then if they do that, it would be a mistake. But

⏹️ ▶️ John right now, I think that is the most obvious choice for two because they’re really cutting it fine to say like, oh, well, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, I wanted a different focal length. People already, I feel like, are overwhelmed with them. But I mean, you don’t see it. You just see like in the

⏹️ ▶️ John camera app, you just pick what you want. But like, there’s more than enough camera lenses to give people the range that they want, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John with the advent of the 5X and the fact that people don’t care about the fact that it’s a digital zoom a lot of the time. if you

⏹️ ▶️ John pinch way too much. I see my kids do it all the time. They don’t know what digital zoom is, they don’t care. They just pinch

⏹️ ▶️ John until the picture shows what they

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco want. And it’s like, it’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s an oil painting. Like it’s just, I don’t even, I don’t know what sensors are using, but I know none of the cameras can

⏹️ ▶️ John zoom at this range. So, but they just take the picture, they don’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never seen a non-nerd out in the world use any of the preset

⏹️ ▶️ Marco focal length buttons on the bottom of the camera app. They always just pinch to zoom wherever they want and that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fine until you’re pinching way past the limit of any of the lenses, even on Casey’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco thing. I’m like, just keep

⏹️ ▶️ John pitching. It’s 20X, it’s fine. I want it to be 20X. I can see my kid on stage. Like, is that your kid or is that like

⏹️ ▶️ John five blobs of color? No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no one cares except us. Yep, can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John confirm.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But we do care.

⏹️ ▶️ John For, yeah, for my three fixed focal lengths, I’ll hack this question a little bit and say,

⏹️ ▶️ John I would just like 0.5, one, and three, but I want the 3X to be like a huge number of megapixels so I

⏹️ ▶️ John can crop it down to like 6X and it doesn’t look like garbage. because it didn’t specify it within given sensor

⏹️ ▶️ John technology or within the current sensor sizes. Just give me a huge number of pixels on a sensor

⏹️ ▶️ John in a 3X, because I don’t, the thing about the 5X is, I like the 3X kind of, you know, I don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ John be that zoomed in all the time. It’s the same thing you were talking about, Casey, where like, that’s a big jump from the one,

⏹️ ▶️ John from the one slash two to the five. That’s why I want a three with enough pixels that I can crop down to five

⏹️ ▶️ John or six. If that’s not possible, I would still do 0.5, one, and three.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the reason I keep pushing for the point five is there are situations where there’s no alternative

⏹️ ▶️ John to that. Like in particular, like if you’re trying to take a picture of an interior space, not that you’re a realtor or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like, even just like I was moving my son into his dorm room, it’s a little dorm room and you wanna show like, here’s what Alex’s dorm

⏹️ ▶️ John room looks like. So it’s like a picture of it or whatever. Point five, you know, you’re backed into a corner, you put it on point

⏹️ ▶️ John five, you can see all the stuff, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Any kind of interior thing or any kind of like fun landscape thing, It’s the same, like I don’t love the 0.5

⏹️ ▶️ John camera, it’s not great, but it’s just like the 3X. Like sometimes if you just have

⏹️ ▶️ John a five and a one, there’s nothing you can do to get that three or the 0.5. So I wanna span the range.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, yeah, it’s not gonna look great, but I have the 0.5, I can get that shot now, even though it’s not great. And the three

⏹️ ▶️ John lets me get that shot without having to like zoom in on the 1X before I can jump to the five.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s a boring answer, but it’s yeah, it’s the lenses I’ve got on my phone right now. I just want

⏹️ ▶️ John the 3X one to have so many more megapixels that I can crop it down to get the equivalent of a 5X or a 6X.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know talking in these Xs is silly because Marco was talking in millimeters like actual camera things,

⏹️ ▶️ John but when I think of my phone, I think of it in terms of 0.5, 1, 2, 3 or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s the language that Apple uses with its things and because honestly, the focal lengths,

⏹️ ▶️ John like I don’t have any intuition about them because the sensors are so small, right? That

⏹️ ▶️ John someone sent us the table of like, what is the full frame equivalent of the light gathering ability at various

⏹️ ▶️ John focal lengths? and it’s like off the charts. Like, I think it was like a 3X lens was like F21 equivalent or something. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just like these numbers don’t make any sense in real camera parlance. So I’m sticking with the 0.51 X 3X.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think it’s, I always think back to the distinction, I sort of talked about this recently, like the distinction between,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I’m using my iPhone camera to take a great picture versus I’m using my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone camera for some kind of function. Like, you know, like a functional need. Like, you know, I want to remember

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where I’m parked. So let me get a snap picture of the sign in the lot that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John says.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or I’m gonna get a picture of a receipt or something up close.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like there’s so many times that I’m using the iPhone camera for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of functional need, not some kind of artistic or memory capture need. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those are the times when I use things like the 3X to zoom in to see, oh, I’m in parking zone, you know, three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blue, or I use the 0.5X so I can say, look, here’s the room, man, you know, what’s the, Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are so many times like that where the optical quality is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super important, but what’s important is trying to capture some kind of information or see some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of information. And so-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John the point, isn’t the point, the only macro one as well, isn’t that what it switches to for macro?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can focus the closest, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I mean-

⏹️ ▶️ John And macro people use, I use that all the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco time. All the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John I reach my phone around the back of an appliance, take a picture with the flash so I can see what the stupid serial number is. Point

⏹️ ▶️ John five, because I’m going to be a centimeter from it. Like that is a functional need.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, exactly. Like having close focus ability is extremely useful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on a phone camera. So that’s why like, as much as like, you know, trying to capture like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco artistically pleasing pictures at super wide focal lengths is difficult.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not like, and optically that sensor is not great, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is a very functionally useful camera. The point five is very functionally useful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I don’t wanna give it up, even though I never use it for like artistic reasons. But the One

⏹️ ▶️ Marco X is where I’m taking most of my pictures and it looks pretty good most of the time, et cetera,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco et cetera. So I’d love to, I mean, honestly, I would rather have it like if I had to,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they gave me like a certain number of, I guess square millimeters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of sensor size to spend however I wanted, I would put it all in the One X sensor. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leave the 0.5 where it is, that’s fine. and then put any other possible camera expansion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re willing to do, make the One X sensor bigger and better. I’d rather have that than almost anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else.

#askatp: Adding music on iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nick writes, is there any way to add music to the music app on iOS without

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Mac or PC or buying it via iTunes, for example, with no computer access at all? I don’t listen enough

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to justify monthly fees for Spotify or Apple Music. If not, is there an app that can do this? I don’t know what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is with all you people and refusing to buy computers these days. I don’t have any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey freaking clue. I’ve got nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do wonder, and we talk about this all the time, that the iPhone or the iPad is like the primary only computer for so many people.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just, you know, people, I know this is a show for people who are quote unquote into computers And we think of that being your Macs

⏹️ ▶️ John or you know, the Windows available and being PCs But I do wonder you know, just I think most people

⏹️ ▶️ John just get by with their phone and it’s it’s true If they’re you know Someone writing this in knows that

⏹️ ▶️ John it used to be possible like if they had our Mac or PC There are ways to do it because there’s some app that you can run

⏹️ ▶️ John on your Mac or your PC that you can transfer MP3 files onto your phone and listen to them. But like but what if I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have our Mac a PC? What do I do then? The problem with this question is it says, I want to add

⏹️ ▶️ John music to the music app, as in the Apple music app. I’m sure there are third-party music playing

⏹️ ▶️ John apps that let you do this. Like maybe they even use the camera connection kit where you just plug in a thing and like

⏹️ ▶️ John put an SD card and read your MP3s off of it. Like you could do that, but the music app,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s music app, like essentially, how do you get the things into your quote unquote iTunes library without a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John or a PC? There are ways to do it. The only one I

⏹️ ▶️ John got to the point where I was going to try, like I started walking through the process was using GarageBand,

⏹️ ▶️ John believe it or not. Because apparently you can put something, you can put something in iCloud Drive

⏹️ ▶️ John and then GarageBand can pull it from iCloud Drive and then GarageBand

⏹️ ▶️ John can send it to your iTunes, your quote unquote iTunes library. That makes me think there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John gotta be, I mean, is that a public API that GarageBand, there’s gotta be some way to get things into there.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it just, it seems so weird that there would be no way at all. And the reason I put this, I think this is relevant

⏹️ ▶️ John to what we’re talking about is we just got done talking about, hey, I’ve got an iPad and I wanna back up my photos

⏹️ ▶️ John besides just doing iCloud thing, what can I use for that? So I guess right in, if you know

⏹️ ▶️ John a way to do this, is there a third-party app that can jam things into your quote unquote iTunes library?

⏹️ ▶️ John The question, and I know people are gonna say, just use this third-party app that has nothing to do with Apple’s music app, but that’s not what the question asks. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if the answer to this is like GarageBand or nothing, That’s not a great answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, so what Nick says in this question is, I don’t listen enough to justify monthly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fees for Spotify or Apple Music. That kind of sounds to me like Nick wouldn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iTunes Match either. Apple Music includes iTunes Match, and iTunes Match was that feature

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a million years ago where you could basically sync your Apple, sync your iTunes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco music library with files that you uploaded between different devices that you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco owned. At that point, Macs. I think this was before iPhones even existed, I think. Or at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco least it was around that time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, it was during iPhone time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, so this would require iTunes Match, or the equivalent functionality in Apple Music,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because what you’re asking is somehow add files. I guess if you’re adding it from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your phone, you want it to be available in the music app on your phone, so maybe it wouldn’t count as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a different device, but I don’t know. Regardless, the answer is basically no.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, there’s always the GarageBand approach. and you can Google for it, it’s Byzantine though, I would never try to do it

⏹️ ▶️ John for, you know, large volumes of music. You basically have to make a new garage band track and pull a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John into it as like an instrument or a loop or something as the one and only track and then it’s ridiculous. I gave up

⏹️ ▶️ John before I accomplished it, but I do believe that it is possible. iTunes Match, there was some discussion

⏹️ ▶️ John about this recently. I recently unsubscribed from iTunes Match, which I had been subscribed to out of fear for ages,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco even

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey though I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John also an Apple Music subscriber. And I unsubscribed to it and everything went fine, nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John bad happened, but apparently what this means is that if you were to re-download

⏹️ ▶️ John a song from your library on another device, if you had iTunes Match and that song was something that

⏹️ ▶️ John you like ripped from a CD and put into your library, if you subscribe to iTunes Match when you

⏹️ ▶️ John re-download that on another device, like say I don’t have it on this device, but I know I uploaded to my Mac’s

⏹️ ▶️ John music library and I subscribed to iTunes Match, so here I am on this other computer or this other device, I should be able to download

⏹️ ▶️ John that particular file. If you subscribe to iTunes match, you get a DRM free. If you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John subscribe to iTunes match, when you download that file, you get a DRM copy. And the whole thing with iTunes match

⏹️ ▶️ John is what they’re saying is we will match your songs. Like what you just want is like, how about I just put a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of MP3s in a folder and you sync them everywhere Apple and then I can play them. How about that? And Apple says, no. What Apple says

⏹️ ▶️ John is, okay, you ripped a bunch of MP3s from CDs back in the nineties, right? And you put them in your

⏹️ ▶️ John iTunes library. What we’ll do is we’ll analyze those MP3s, figure out what

⏹️ ▶️ John song we think it is, and then put a little bit in your database entry that says, okay, this

⏹️ ▶️ John person has this song by this artist, because we saw they had an MP3 over here. And so when they’re on another

⏹️ ▶️ John machine, and they ask us, hey, can I get that song that I wrote for my CD? We’re not gonna take the

⏹️ ▶️ John file from their Mac and upload it to the cloud and download it. No, no, no. What we’re gonna do is look for our little

⏹️ ▶️ John record and says, yeah, we saw your MP3 and we think it’s this song by this artist. If you’re an iTunes match

⏹️ ▶️ John subscriber, here’s a DRM free copy of it. If you’re not, here’s an Apple Music DRM encumbered copy of it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you’re like, but I’ve got a DRM-free MP3 over there, why don’t you just give me that one? I ripped that at 128 kilobits per second in 1994!

⏹️ ▶️ John Give me that file! And Apple again says no. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this is like a weird system that’s a, you know, has weird historical baggage behind it.

⏹️ ▶️ John The fact that it’s called a match, the whole idea is they are matching your MP3s with what song they think it

⏹️ ▶️ John is and deciding what version to give to you. I don’t regret unsubscribing from iTunes Match, but iTunes

⏹️ ▶️ John match of all the Apple services. It was a bargain. It was $25 for an entire year. And what essentially gave you was

⏹️ ▶️ John the illusion of, you know, a folder that syncs filled with your music. Again, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John gotta be third-party music apps that are just like, I don’t know anything or care anything about Apple and iTunes. You just

⏹️ ▶️ John give me a bunch of MP3s and I’ll sync them everywhere. And you could do that yourself with Dropbox or whatever. I guess you could

⏹️ ▶️ John just play them from the Dropbox interface. Like, you know, you can fashion yourself your own third-party music

⏹️ ▶️ John playing application out of one of these many cloud sync services. But Apple Music is very

⏹️ ▶️ John encumbered by historical baggage and weirdness, and I think part of the result of that

⏹️ ▶️ John is the answer to the next question is, at least we don’t know a good way to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah.

#askatp: Synology remote access

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Rock Ripley writes, I just got a Synology and was working on making the Synology available when away from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey home for, you know, basically via the internet. Well, there’s more than one way to do this. It seems as though you get the fastest

⏹️ ▶️ Casey connection if you log into the Synology through either a VPN or port forwarding. The internet seems to prefer the VPN,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey especially OpenVPN, for security reasons. Can someone explain why this is so? It looks like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey many Synology services only require HTTPS on port 5001, and I can only gain access

⏹️ ▶️ Casey after logging in with my credentials. So it seems conservatively, I could get access to many services by making one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or only a few ports available and by using an encrypted connection. Similarly, a VPN requires an encrypted connection and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey logging credentials. So why would one be more secure than the other? Is it the nature of the encryption? The fact

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that practically many ports need to be forwarded to make port forwarding workable or something else?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The way I look at this is, the safest approach is to not let anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey poke into your network until you’ve already passed some sort of credential

⏹️ ▶️ Casey check. So in order to get onto the network remotely, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is by some VPN, I don’t personally use OpenVPN, but that’s fine. Then first,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in order to get on the network, you need to authenticate. And then, yeah, it’s a second layer of authentication to get into the Synology. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t personally think that’s necessary, but I think that is probably the right-est answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For me, I port forward a couple of selective ports when appropriate, and turn

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a lot of the Synology’s protections for like, you know, oh, I’m gonna try 17,000 logins and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hope that it doesn’t lock me out or whatever the case may be. I don’t know, John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you probably have a stronger feeling and or answer about this. What is your recommendation or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how would you like to explain it?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t have a strong feeling about it. If I had to do it, I would probably do the VPN approach. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just all those years in corporate America, getting me used to the idea of signing into a VPN. It just seems like a natural thing to

⏹️ ▶️ John do to protect the network. And even though, as you noted, once you’re on that network, there are still many more layers

⏹️ ▶️ John of password, what I personally choose to do is not expose my synology to the internet. So that

⏹️ ▶️ John solves that problem, sort of. But yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John all of our home network security is probably not as good as it should be, just because

⏹️ ▶️ John doing that type of stuff is a pain. And if you’re not, even if you are a network administrator by trade, but even if you’re not, it’s just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you just want to not have to think about it. You just want to buy reasonably secure stuff And my strategy is like, just don’t expose

⏹️ ▶️ John anything to the internet if you can possibly help it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if you can get away with that, then don’t worry about it. But if I had to do it, yeah, I would

⏹️ ▶️ John go with VPN.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Collide, and Hatch. And thanks to our members

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who support us directly. You can join us at atp.fm slash join. and we will talk to you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was accidental, oh it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was accidental John

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at atp.fm And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco N-T Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, they didn’t mean to ♪ So accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco accidental ♪ We’ll be back, the podcast is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long

A sentence

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a very small mini thing that’s not even really a topic. It’s more of a sentence.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have noticed, for whatever it’s worth, the Apple Watch Series 9. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco miss my titanium, but one thing I do not miss is times during

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a workout with previous Apple Watches where I’d look down and check my heart rate and it would just be dimmed out because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just wouldn’t read for a little while.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh yeah, that’s very frustrating.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Apple Watch Series 9 and Ultra 2, One of the features they very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco briefly breezed past in their introduction is they both with their new neural engine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco capabilities with the S9, they’ve upgraded the heart monitoring sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as well, the heart rate monitoring sensor to use some kind of ML to figure out your heart

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rate better. And I have noticed for whatever it’s worth, so far in my workouts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the Series 9, single time I glance down at the watch to see my heart rate, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. And it’s updating pretty frequently. That’s nice. So I think that actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, I mean, I think they kind of underplayed the importance of that if I’m right about this, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it seems like a pretty big upgrade. That it seems like it is tracking my heart rate very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significantly better than the old ones did. And this is the same size watch with the same strap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the same hole, so like, you know, it isn’t like it’s a tighter fit or anything like it’s the it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big watch with the but the sport strap on the third hole like it this is what I owe I’ve used this for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a long time now I’ve had the same the same results you know with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with previous Apple watches but it was the same like it would work a lot of the time but a lot of time you look down and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’d see that great out heart rate the new one seems significantly improved in that area

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so while I do very much miss my titanium, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a pretty cool upgrade that I think no one really is talking about.

Neutral: Car noises

Chapter Neutral: Car noises image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, we can actually get to bed at a reasonable time tonight.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Firing on all cylinders. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. Not you though, because you don’t have any cylinders.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No. Oh my god, it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey good. He’s got cylinders in his

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco brakes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, fair enough, fair

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One thing I’ve been doing recently in the Rivian is… So part of the beach is closed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because of various erosion problems that have happened and it’s too narrow to drive on. So I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to drive on the interior sand road for more of the trip now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s basically driving through a nature preserve, but with occasional houses. And one thing I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco discovered, and I absolutely love it, is because it’s electric, and therefore it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically silent, although there’s an asterisk on that, but it’s basically silent, what I’ve been doing when I’ve been driving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco through that kind of like sandy nature preserve area is just rolling the windows down, turning off the music,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and turning off the HVAC. So it’s just nothing, and just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quietly like silently gliding through. I’m on soft sand, there’s only not any tire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco noise. So the only noise I hear is like the little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tiny whooshing noise that the car has to make to comply with like pedestrian safety standards.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was gonna say like that all these cars make some kind of noise so you don’t run over pedestrians.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so it’s so it has a very slight whooshy noise, but it’s I gotta say, Rivian’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version of it is is pretty tasteful. And I mean, I would say difficult

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to notice, which I know might be going against its purpose, but it is a very tastefully done one.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve heard- Yeah, everything in the Caribbean is nature sounds, right? It’s like birds chirping and stuff like that. Is it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making those? Because I was going to say, I enjoy listening to the birds.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, not for the idle sound, but like when you unlock it and stuff like that, isn’t that all like

⏹️ ▶️ John nature sounds?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think there’s a lot. It doesn’t make a lot of sounds at all, which is good, frankly. I don’t want my cars to make a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of sounds. But, uh, but yeah, anyway, I’ve loved just like hearing the birds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the crickets and the sand and like the waves, like, oh my God, it is, it is delightful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Silence the car and just creep through this wonderful sand, you know, environment.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It, it like brightens my day every time. It’s so, it’s so nice. It’s, it’s like this little joy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, you know, I would never have expected, you know, with this change to electric cars,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it just, it happened just so happens. Like what a cool thing. I’m really enjoying this. I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco told Tiff today, I’m so happy with this vehicle. I hope it stays good. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my only concern now is what’s gonna break? What?

⏹️ ▶️ John Are you gonna ruin my software updates? You worried about that or you worried about stuff breaking?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, did you see what Steve put in Slack, actually, just an hour or so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco ago?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they literally just did a software update. I told my car to do it right before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the show. It popped up. I’ll see tomorrow how it is, but uh, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re changing a whole bunch of various things around, but so far, I have found their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco UI to be pretty good. It’s not perfect. I still want CarPlay for navigation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and music, but their UI overall is pretty good. I’m pretty happy with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. So far, they have earned my trust that they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco won’t screw it up too badly simply because of the design they’ve shown so far. We’ll see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over time. I mean look I originally said I enjoyed Tesla’s UI for a while too and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then over time they Got new designers in there and ruined it So we’ll see you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hopefully that that same thing won’t happen to Rivian, but so far I’m So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoying this vehicle

⏹️ ▶️ John Is one of the sounds as you silently glide through the in road trail the sounds of bushes?

⏹️ ▶️ John Scraping their branches against the side of your paint job a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes. So wide, you know, that sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or splashing myself through a giant deep puddle because you know it’s very, very bumpy.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Do you get to like I mean, I was gonna say maybe you get to sneak up on animals more, but I imagine the electronic

⏹️ ▶️ John whooshing is probably scaring them away.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh no, the only animals that that are nearby that that are irrelevant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John are deer that

⏹️ ▶️ John aren’t afraid of you.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Anyway. Yes, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I literally I drove right past a giant buck today like it was maybe eight feet away

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the cars. I crept by and it just looked at me like, what the hell am I doing there? Just

⏹️ ▶️ John going to scrimp more things to scrimp up your paint job and bring those antlers over. Yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ John I should hear the electronic, speaking of whooshing sounds. So there’s the external whooshing sound to protect

⏹️ ▶️ John pedestrians and stuff. But there’s also, of course, the internal sounds that every car plays on the speaker

⏹️ ▶️ John to, or not every car, but the sportier cars play to make you feel like you’re doing something sporty. Obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ John the internal combustion noise that we talked about for ages. But some electric cars do it as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there are some electric cars that choose to try to make an internal combustion noise, which is weird.

⏹️ ▶️ John But a lot of them also, they come up with some sort of electronic sci-fi noise that they decide is exciting

⏹️ ▶️ John sounding for when you’re accelerating. And the most interesting one I heard recently was the Corvette E-Ray,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is a C8 Corvette with this regular V8. But then on the front axle,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s got an electric motor that is completely independent and totally not attached to the rear of the

⏹️ ▶️ John car in any way whatsoever, except for through computers, which is fun. and that’s got a skinny little tiny battery in the

⏹️ ▶️ John center tunnel. Anyway, when you accelerate in that thing, obviously it’s got the actual V8

⏹️ ▶️ John noise, it’s a big loud engine. Then I think it also has artificial V8 noise, because why wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John it? And then it has the sci-fi noise that it ramps up as you go faster.

⏹️ ▶️ John And by the time you’re going fast, the sci-fi noise dominates the actual V8 noise. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John so weird, it’s very Star Trek-y. It definitely looks fun in YouTube videos, but as some of the

⏹️ ▶️ John reviews said, It’s fun the first few days, but it gets tiring. I don’t know if you could turn it off. They didn’t say that

⏹️ ▶️ John you could, but I’m not looking forward to the day when I have to worry about the sounds that my car is

⏹️ ▶️ John artificially making in the hopes that I will be excited by them. Not looking forward to

⏹️ ▶️ John that at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s all right for you and me, if we decide to stick with burning dead dinosaurs, apparently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the only people that we’ll be able to get a car from is Porsche, because they’re saying, until we electrify,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re keeping the manuals. and

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t believe in anything any of these car companies say because the people who say it get fired or leave and then new

⏹️ ▶️ John people come and that’s the problem. Remember when it was the CEO of Ferrari said, we’ll make an SUV over my

⏹️ ▶️ John dead body. Then they fired him. They got a new CEO and he made an SUV. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John Porsche will do that until they won’t. Yeah, it’s not a stick shift. Like honestly, it’s the silly, like at this

⏹️ ▶️ John point I don’t even think it’s safe for me to buy an internal combustion engine because start stop, I

⏹️ ▶️ John cannot handle start stop.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s really

⏹️ ▶️ John annoying. A lot of cars let you disable it, but then they re-enable it every time you start the car, kind of like the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey algorithmic timeline and

⏹️ ▶️ John threads. Probably, but some of them have an easy way to defeat it, of putting a jumper on a fuse or doing some

⏹️ ▶️ John secret code or whatever. But I don’t wanna have to look to see, is it possible to have this car with

⏹️ ▶️ John the start stop thing permanently disabled? Or is it possible you can buy one without it anymore?

⏹️ ▶️ John Same thing with the rev lockouts. It’s not a big deal, but like all the YouTube videos of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I got a fancy new car, listen to my engine rev, vroom, vroom, you know that type of thing? All of them have soft

⏹️ ▶️ John limiters on them that say, hey, when you’re sitting idle and the car is like, not moving, you can’t go higher than 3000 RPM.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Emissions

⏹️ ▶️ John testing. It’s like, everything is about, you know, do something that makes the car worse

⏹️ ▶️ John so we can fake like the car is better than it is within these tests. The car is

⏹️ ▶️ John not as good as it says, but like, oh, if we don’t let you rev it more than 3000, and then the idle emissions will never be above

⏹️ ▶️ John zero. It’s just so dumb, so depressing. Just want a straightforward machine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s an easy solution

⏹️ ▶️ John here. I mean, the electronic ones make weird electronic noise. I would want an electric car. Obviously, I

⏹️ ▶️ John understand the pedestrian safety. That’s gotta be, you know, make the noise on the outside. I get that. And hopefully it would be a pleasing noise, not an annoying

⏹️ ▶️ John one. But inside the car, I don’t wanna hear anything. And the problem is the

⏹️ ▶️ John actual sound of electric cars is not particularly pleasing. So you kind of got to try to

⏹️ ▶️ John block it all out like the actual sound of like electric engine wine not artificial But like the real sound

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, I like it a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great noise Because it because it sounds like like in the same way that like you know a gas gas engine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sounds are not Pleasing at first when it like the very first time you ever hear a gas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco engine sound it just sounds like you know a long fart But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the reason why you find it pleasing to have like a big engine sound after a while is because you associate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that sound with Performance and and the going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco just it

⏹️ ▶️ John there is there

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a

⏹️ ▶️ John pleasing engine internal combustion sounds mostly probably because they sound like animal Noises and then animal noises

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they sound like animal gas noises, but but like not all of them No But I’m saying like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco associate you come to associate those sounds with the the speed and the performance that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you like well Well, once you drive electric, you come to associate the electric motor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sounds with speed and performance. And so those sound good to you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John once you are used to them being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a positive thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I’m not against them. I don’t think they sound bad. I just find them mostly because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John higher pitched. I think it’s what it comes down to. You know what I mean? Like higher pitched noises can be more annoying. And

⏹️ ▶️ John unlike internal combustion engines where there’s so much work done to, especially back in the olden days before,

⏹️ ▶️ John catalytic converters and emissions testing or whatever, to try to tune the noise that you

⏹️ ▶️ John hear when you’re sitting inside the car to be the most pleasing to you. Lots of cars had things where they

⏹️ ▶️ John would have various baffles and stuff that they open and close into the cabin of the car

⏹️ ▶️ John so that it sounds better inside the car because you’re right, there are lots of noises that don’t sound good in internal

⏹️ ▶️ John combustion engines, but they would tune them to say, let’s let in the good sounds at the

⏹️ ▶️ John right point in the whole emissions and things. So they come into the cabin to sound

⏹️ ▶️ John good, or even just put a big induction scoop over the hood of the car, so that’s right behind your head or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m not sure there are a lot of good sounds to funnel into the cabin from electric

⏹️ ▶️ John motors. There are just the sort of high pitch wind of electric motors that there’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ John lot of nuance and there is a lot of like, there are bad sounds that you wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John funnel out, but I’m not sure how much you can make it good. It seems like every car maker has decided for both these kinds of engines.

⏹️ ▶️ John Whatever it sounded makes for real, We don’t want any of that. We will. We’ll just get a sound

⏹️ ▶️ John designer to make up some BS, whether it’s a BS internal combustion engine or a BS

⏹️ ▶️ John sci-fi spaceship noise. And we want you to hear that. And to the degree that we can totally damp

⏹️ ▶️ John the actual sound our car is making, we’ll do that. If only we could all drive slowly on sand,

⏹️ ▶️ John then we wouldn’t have tire noise either.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. Well, I would love, I don’t know how realistic or legal this would be, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if it’s a good idea. But I would love if the vehicle is in off-road mode if it didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the sound I think that’s kind of reasonable, but I don’t know that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just that’s just a random thought

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, you run over people in the woods to like it. Yeah, I’m sure there’s some compliance reason why they can’t do that

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah Although you could find whatever fuse it is or some secret code that you enter in the infotainment system

⏹️ ▶️ John that turns off the external sound making you a yellow killing machine.

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