catatp.fm Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

554: Is This Your Dog?

27 Sep 2023

Our iPhone 15 Pro impressions, case options, size choices, and an unexpected recording location.

Episode Description:

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  • Clean Email: Clean your Inbox of emails you don’t need. Then keep it clean.

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MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Chapters

  1. Mobile recording setup
  2. Donate to St. Jude
  3. John’s a PHP programmer
  4. Sponsor: Clean Email
  5. iPhone transfer over USB-C
  6. USB A-to-C-hole adapters
  7. 15 Pro sharp edges?
  8. Cases
  9. Chip binning by power
  10. No gains from 3nm?
  11. People, Pets, and Places
  12. Our iPhones 15 Pro
  13. Ending theme
  14. Amazon is fast

Mobile recording setup

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m a little bit hoarse, because I’m a little bit sick. You’re not going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get me sick, are you?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I caught someone’s allergies in quotes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, you’ll never guess where I’m recording from right now. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the beach? Not the beach. Delaware. Hi.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am recording from my Rivian. You’re recording from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your Rivian? What are you talking about? Is your Rivian outside my house? Because that would be amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That would be, oh, I gotta do that sometime, but I didn’t do that this time. That’s a little far. Through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a weird series of logistical events, as listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, I recently bought a house that we’re in the process of moving to, and it’s taking up my entire fall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because part of that moving process involves the house that I bought is a bit of a fixer-upper, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s putting it mildly. And so, they’re doing a ton of renovation before we can move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in. There were structural problems. We knew going in, you know, surprise, but we accepted the project

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it was actually the least bad house that was available. So anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as part of that, we rented an apartment nearby that would go month to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco month, which is almost nothing around here. And it’s just like this, like the side of somebody’s house that we knew that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a separate part of their house. And so we’re renting that so that Adam can like easily go to school here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the new town before our house is actually livable, which should hopefully be in about a month. The apartment

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does not have good internet service. Now, it has, it’s, the house, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco owned by, you know, an older couple, they don’t need much, so they have some really basic cable broadband service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the local cable ISP, and the speed tests I run on it usually are something like 20

⏹️ ▶️ Marco megabits down, 4 up. Oh! It’s, it’s not good, and it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also fluctuates a lot. I was not going to try to record ATP on that. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco naturally, even though the new house does not currently have plumbing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or walls, it does have gigabit fiber because of course I got that installed. Priorities,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey baby.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it turns out cars mostly make really good sound recording environments because they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are small spaces full of soft surfaces and mostly a bunch of different angles

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of surfaces. So the sound gets diffused, it gets absorbed by the soft things and there’s not much room for it to echo.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you’ve got glass windows all around. That’s terrible for sound.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but there’s enough soft stuff and obliquely angled surfaces that the sound bounces around and gets absorbed correctly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I guess you’ll find out when you edit this because right now Zoom is totally changing the audio so we can’t hear

⏹️ ▶️ John what’s really going on, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you’ll find out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. The great thing, I have great, you know, precise climate control and everything. It’s actually quite cozy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Infinite electricity that, you know, run my laptop off of and everything. So that part’s all great.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does the Rivian have podcaster mode so you don’t get too hot?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had to tell it that I’m camping, which is not quite accurate. I feel like I’m kind of stealing camping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John valor.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you do the auto leveling thing? So you’re level while you’re podcasting?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually, the button is right there on the screen. I’ve been afraid to push it, because I got all set up and then saw the button. I’m like, eh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t want to mess anything up. It’s working great right now. So this is where I’m recording from. And interesting, so anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the apartment, the Wi-Fi’s terrible, and we’re not going to be there long enough to make a big stand. You know, the couple who’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco renting it to us is very nice, and they’re being very generous. And so I don’t want to make a stand, can make them change their whole ISP just for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I thought, let me try one of those 5G hotspots. They’ve been around for a while,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the little standalone Netgear hotspots and similar other brands. And I’ve never tried one before, and they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do usually support high gain external antennas. So I thought,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually, I had a trip that I recently went on that it would be useful for, and I thought, let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give this a shot. I’ll get it like a few weeks early and I’ll try it at the apartment. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually got the Netgear Nighthawk M6 Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Nighthawk?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yes. What the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what? All of Netgear’s names are alike. Military, vehicle, manliness, like it’s terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like they’re the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John worst. They look like Transformers or like Kit. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re terrible. It’s like, did a teenage boy name all this stuff? I mean, probably. Right. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I got the Nighthawk M6 Pro, which is way less violent than it sounds.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And in fact, it’s just a little black box of electronics. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I activated on AT&T. That was a process. I don’t recommend doing that process. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once it was activated, it works great. And I recently, I was traveling and I was in a hotel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last week and I got to use it instead of my, like I was like, let me see, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll bring it to the hotel and then instead of using hotel wifi, let me see if this thing works. And I got the external high

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gain antenna for it. Oh my God. For hotel use, if you have good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reception, which I did, it was remarkably good. Now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not unlimited data, but like the AT&T plans that you get with it, they start at like 50 gigs for 50

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks-ish, something like that. For hotel internet use, this thing was amazing. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unlike tethering, which I know Casey, you love tethering.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This thing is just broadcasting wifi. And it has ethernet too, Like it has a bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco advanced stuff I didn’t really need. Oh, and I should clarify, this is a very expensive hotspot that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did not pay anywhere near the retail price for. I believe the retail price is like $900. It’s $1,000 on Amazon right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, but I got an Amazon like recertified,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco renewed, refurbished one for, I believe, 275. It was something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. Wow! Yeah, if you look on Amazon now, there’s a few that are like a little below $300. So I thought,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, I mean, you know, I’ll take that risk, sure. And it’s worked out fine. I can tell there’s nothing wrong with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It works great. And it was, again, I would not recommend this at $1,000, but at 300 bucks, eh, maybe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s actually, anyway, so the experience of using it, again, to those of you out there who have used these before,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is gonna be old hat. This is like me describing Wi-Fi to you. But forgive me, I’ve never used one of these before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was great because what it does is it broadcasts its own Wi-Fi network, and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to individually have all your devices sign into the hotel Wi-Fi.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the Wi-Fi connection doesn’t expire after every day, then you have to go back into the hotel portal and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco re-enter your room number and all that crap. You don’t have to pay the five bucks extra per day to have the faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco connection or whatever. It’s just like being on your home Wi-Fi. It’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And speed-wise, I really, you know, I wouldn’t wanna burn all my limited data downloading Xcode or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything over this thing, but speed-wise, in most of my work, it was hard to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice. I easily forgot that I was effectively tethering. And again, this was in a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 5G coverage area with a strong signal with the antenna. So I was getting very good service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to it. But in those conditions, it was fantastic. I don’t know that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna keep this plan active. Like if you buy the thing upfront for, you know, for Amazon or whatever, instead of buying it through your carrier,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s no contract usually. So I got this thing month to month. And so I’m gonna only turn

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the plan when I actually am going to travel somewhere and use it. But this is great. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much nicer. If you are somewhere to work, it was so nice to just open up my laptop and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was just on, it was connected. It’s similar to when devices have built-in cellular. This is why we want this so badly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s that much better. And then everything was on, my laptop, my phone, my watch, like all of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing, all of my devices were on the wifi all the time for the entire handful of days I was there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was fantastic. So it’s not for everyone. It’s a little expensive, I get that. But if that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for you, that’s a good option to know about. It also, they have all sorts of features, like you can use it as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a backup connection with your home router and stuff like that. There’s all sorts of features like that. I didn’t test any of those, I didn’t have time yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, I thought, great, this should fix the apartment internet connection too, because we’re only gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be there for like another month or so. Let me just get a better connection for that, and then I’ll be able to use that while I’m there and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be able to do the show from there if need be and so on. And the apartment does not have a good service.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like there is not only is the Wi-Fi pretty slow, but there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like basically no 5G service. And here I’m like going around the whole place, like sticking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the suction cups from the antenna up against like every single window in the place, trying out different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco locations. They’re all bad. Like there is nowhere I get like two bars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of service at best anywhere in the apartment with both this thing and my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone and any other 5G device. So unfortunately, it does not help me at all there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s why I’m sitting in my room and recording this podcast in a very awkward setup in front of my under construction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco house that has gigabit Wi-Fi.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should move on and we will once again ask you for the very last time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey until this time next year to go to stjude.org

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and give some money to some kids who really, really could use it. So here’s the thing, St.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jude is a children’s research hospital. It’s based in Memphis, Tennessee, and they do amazing work and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they do it for Americans and everyone else as well. It is incredible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the work that this place has done. And as one of the largest pediatric cancer hospitals

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the world, St. Jude treats more than 8,000 patients each year, many of whom are treated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as outpatients, which is incredible. St. Jude has achieved a 94% survival

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rate for a particular type of leukemia, which is a type of blood cancer, that is up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from 4% in 1962. So from 4% to 94%, I’d say they’re doing okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The work they do is incredible. They are such incredible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey people there that all they want to do is to provide health care and some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sort of smile and good news for sick children and their families. They don’t charge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey their patients or their families a dime. The work they do is unbelievable, and we really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should applaud them. So if you have any dollars or whatever your local currency is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you can scrape together and give to St. Jude, be it $1, be it $10, be it $1,000, Be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that if you want to earn some stickers from me, $10,001, because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the leading donor is still 10,000 bucks, which by the way, I don’t think you reached out to collect your stickers, so please do. But anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you want some ATP stickers, which are not for sale, and I probably won’t, we will probably never put

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them up for sale because I love having it as currency slash encouragement. Anyway, if you want stickers,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go to stg.org slash ATP. Now is the time. Marco, you and I, I believe,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have received new telephones. I think Tina has as well. Marco, if you’ve received some new,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely unnecessary device from Apple or someone else, what can you do to help compute

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the recommended ATP donation?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, here’s the thing. You look at the family of phone that you bought, whether it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPhone 15 Pro or the iPhone 15, the Max is not its own family, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you use the Pro. You look at the base price of that family. So the Pro is a thousand bucks,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the non-Pro is what, 800? I forgot. I don’t remember. You can figure it out. You’re smart.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, look at the base price of that. Then you look at the receipt total from your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco order, including a year or two years of AppleCare if you chose the monthly AppleCare plan.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You look at the receipt total, sales tax, anything, all the different fees, accessories you purchased along with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the phone, higher storage tiers, whatever it is. Look at that receipt total. Subtract the base price of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco family, $1,000. And that is your minimum donation, ideally. So if you can swing it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and many of you can. That’s wonderful. We’re all very fortunate to be able to do that. If you can swing it, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is your minimum donation to St. Jude. If you can do more, great, do more. If you can’t do that, do what you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you can. But that’s your target. Minimum target is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difference between your total receipt price for whatever you just bought that you didn’t probably necessarily super need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the base price of the family. So, good luck.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed, and if you wanted to help compute that for you, is there a website or a slogan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or like a name for this whole idea that we could look up?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, this is called the Marco Offset. And somebody made a website that I forgot the URL. Is it just marcooffset.com?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s themarcooffset.com.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There you go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you can plug in your particulars to themarcooffset.com and you will get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a suggested donation. So please, September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is why we’re doing it now. As we record, it’s Tuesday the 26th. So this is the last time you’re gonna hear this until 2024.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But please, please consider throwing a few dollars their way. Stjude.org slash ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, anything you’d like to add?

⏹️ ▶️ John Even though the, uh, you know, September will end, you can give it anytime during the year and I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey guess that was also true.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is my last chance to give a, one of my usual pitches about this is to people in our audience who

⏹️ ▶️ John are, uh, software developers or some other, uh, fairly highly paid

⏹️ ▶️ John profession. Um, if you’re like just getting out of college or you’re getting your first job as

⏹️ ▶️ John a programmer or whatever. I remember what that was like. You

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like you’re just kind of trying to get your feet underneath you. And when you hear people talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about charities and stuff like that on podcasts, you say, oh, this is a good cause. I hope people give to that. But you feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s something for other people because you are not yet in a position to do that. And that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe you’re just getting your feet under yourself. You really don’t have time or money to think about

⏹️ ▶️ John charity at this point. But what happens is, especially if you are in one of

⏹️ ▶️ John these pretty well paid, uh, technical professions like software developer or similar,

⏹️ ▶️ John um, you’ll have, you’ll have your job for a few years and maybe you’ll go move to another job

⏹️ ▶️ John or get a promotion or whatever. And the years will pass by. And eventually, without

⏹️ ▶️ John realizing it, you will become one of those people who you used to think about as listening to charity

⏹️ ▶️ John pitches and giving money to charity because you know, if asked in a survey, you’re like, Oh yeah, people should give, of what percentage

⏹️ ▶️ John of people’s income do you think they should give to charity? It’s like, well, if they don’t have a lot of money, like maybe they can’t afford to give anything and that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John But once people start making real money and they get, you know, they start, you know, they pay off their student loans or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John And like, they’re finally getting their feet under them. They’re thinking about saving for a house or whatever. Those people should give X percent of their

⏹️ ▶️ John money to charity, right? And it’s real easy to say that and think about that when you’re assuming it’s other people.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you find yourself in your mid thirties, having worked at a, you know, as a software

⏹️ ▶️ John developer for five, 10, 15 years, chances are good that you are now one of

⏹️ ▶️ John those people who you used to think is supposed to give money to charity. And if you don’t, if you aren’t in the habit of

⏹️ ▶️ John giving money to charity, that abstract concept of how, what percentage, you know, well-to-do

⏹️ ▶️ John people should give to charity, like you have that in your head, but then look, when you do your taxes at the end of the year and say,

⏹️ ▶️ John what percentage of our income did we give to charity this year? And I’m not saying you have to give to St. Jude, you can give to whatever cause

⏹️ ▶️ John that you believe in, although we think this is a good cause, and it’s really easy to do, s-t-j-u-d-e dot o-r-g

⏹️ ▶️ John slash a-t-p. Think about at the year end,

⏹️ ▶️ John what charities we’re gonna, and the good thing is for tax purposes and everything, you can give all the money on

⏹️ ▶️ John one day at the very end of the year. It’s not like you need to spread it out throughout the year and sometimes that is, we can give monthly or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. But please think about the idea of that perhaps you, without you knowing it, have

⏹️ ▶️ John become one of those people who you always assumed would give money to charity. Check your tax return and

⏹️ ▶️ John see if that’s you. And if it’s not, give a dollar or something. It’s great, it’ll make you feel good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed, stju.org.atp.

John’s a PHP programmer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, there’s been some developments. This is a bit inside baseball, but this whole

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing, it’s almost too bad that nobody else gets to see the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental channel in the Relay Slack, which is where we take, you know, that’s our Slack channel for the three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of us. We usurp Relay’s bandwidth, if you will. And watching this fly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by over the last few days has been a true honest to goodness delight. John, can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you tell me what you’ve been up to recently?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, last episode Marco was saying let me tell you how John gets me to add features to the website He sends these pull

⏹️ ▶️ John requests over the fence that he’s never even run a code that he’s never even run code that he doesn’t even Have the ability to

⏹️ ▶️ John run and then that makes me just reimplemented and do it myself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a language She doesn’t officially know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and and he said this because I had just recently done that Sent a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco pull request

⏹️ ▶️ John noting full. Well, hey, I’ve never run any of this code I feel like two things here one

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco was employing his own version of the same thing which I’ll get to in a second, but two, before I get to that one,

⏹️ ▶️ John he talked about me sending a pull request that I had never run. He had also

⏹️ ▶️ John never run that pull request. And I know that because when I eventually did the thing, the number one thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that I’m gonna get to in a second, I ran my pull request on

⏹️ ▶️ John a dev version of ATP.fm, and it worked the first time with no changes.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if he’d only just accepted that pull request, merged it and deployed it or merged it and tested

⏹️ ▶️ John it, it would have worked perfectly. So here’s the thing. How did I test

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? In all fairness, that one was a lot less code and a lot less broken than the first one you sent.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, you know, you win some, you lose some.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Anyway, here’s what Marco did. Here’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the first thing I was referring to. His thing was like, here’s how John gets me to make changes to the website.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, here’s how Marco gets me to finally get a dev version of the site up and running.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco He talks about it on the podcast. And so I said,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what? I started that project to make like a, you know, a Docker image that would

⏹️ ▶️ John run the dev server. Let me finish that project because Margot called me out on another podcast. So that’s what I did.

⏹️ ▶️ John I picked up my Docker work that I had been doing and I got the site up and running in

⏹️ ▶️ John Docker in a mostly working state. And the very first thing I did was went

⏹️ ▶️ John to dev.atp.fm slash specials and

⏹️ ▶️ John saw that the specials page that I had added worked perfectly. But of course I didn’t stop there once I had a working dev server.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just went down the punch list of all the easy, tiny little changes that are in our to-do document for

⏹️ ▶️ John the website. And I did a bunch of them as well. And then Casey tried

⏹️ ▶️ John out my Docker thing, and it worked for him on the very first try. So it’s the magic of Docker.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And not only that, there was a small bit of user error on my part, wherein there was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an expectation of an environment variable that I did not set correctly. Casey doesn’t know how Phish works. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the problem. Phish is weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hold on. Who does know how Phish works? That’s not a valid complaint to accuse Casey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that. No one knows how Phish works.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean, see, here’s the thing. If he was using a Phishism, so he knows a little bit about how it works, he needed to set an

⏹️ ▶️ John environment variable. But rather than setting an environment variable the way you would do it in Bash or the Bourne shell or

⏹️ ▶️ John any other regular shell, he set it doing it the weird Phish way. It says F-I-S-H, not

⏹️ ▶️ John P-H-I-S-H. It’s not Marco’s band.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, that shell I would know something about. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John commands are very long. Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John but he could have just used Bash cell syntax and it would work. But instead, he used the special fish syntax

⏹️ ▶️ John for their universal variable thing, which are like turbocharged environment. I don’t know. I don’t use fish. But anyway, he used a special

⏹️ ▶️ John fish-specific one. And that’s not the same thing as environment variables and that tripped him up. Anyway, continue, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thank you for that. But anyway, suffice to say, you’re raking me over the coals here. And I’m trying to compliment

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you. This is the story of our relationship. Merlin, I feel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I was just saying that you actually do know something

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about fish. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John you were using a very specific feature that you had to have read the docs to learn about.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, fair enough. Well, all right, I’ll allow it. But anyways, the point is, I go to run this. I thought I’d set my environment variable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey correctly. Clearly, I was wrong. But, and this is the mark of a mature and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well-seasoned developer, that when I ran it, the script that you had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey helpfully provided to start the whole download the container, start it, run it, and so on and so forth, it immediately

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, hey, I can’t find such and such environment variable. What would you like it to be set to? Which was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just chef’s kiss. This is the sign of a mature developer. Immature developers, including

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably me, would have just dumped and said, you didn’t set it, dummy. But no, John’s script says-

⏹️ ▶️ John No, immature developers would have done two things. One, they wouldn’t have set minus X on the bash script, so it would have continued

⏹️ ▶️ John whether there was an error or not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and two,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it would just blindly continue with an empty string. Yep, that’s right. And then somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ John down the line, that would manifest in something not working and it would be totally unclear why it didn’t work. That’s fair.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, I was very proud of you. And yes, it did work the very first shot. Your instructions were excellent.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was the other good thing. It turns out documentation is helpful.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Who knew? And John had excellent documentation and it worked lickety split. It was great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it turns out that just fixing something yourself is way better than filing a bug report and just waiting forever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we didn’t have a bug report. We just had a document with a to-do list. So all I needed was the ability to

⏹️ ▶️ John do the things on the to-do list and I did. And I’m doing the easy ones to be clear. I’m still leaving all the hard ones for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you. It’s also fair that, you know, Like the things on the to-do list, like you keep writing them and I keep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not looking at them. That’s quite a metaphor.

⏹️ ▶️ John Really. You just gotta get the top two that we put in there recently and I’ll handle everything else. I don’t even know what they are.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, you know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do I? Bye.

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iPhone transfer over USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone 15, we’re going to be bouncing in and out of iPhone 15 topics throughout the evening or day, whatever, whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re listening to this. So the iPhone 15, data transfer over USB-C. We had some feedback with regard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to this. Samuel Pole wrote, I was setting up my iPhone 15 Pro in the Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey store, which seems an odd choice unless you have really crummy internet at home, but hey, you know, whatever works for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, there’s a reason for that if you’re trading it in as part of the purchase.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, thank you. You’re exactly right. forgot about that. I take it all back Samuel, my apologies. So Samuel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey writes, I chose restoration from iCloud since the store’s Wi-Fi was providing 100 megabits per second down, but my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey estimate still came in at around an hour to complete. An Apple Store employee saw this and plugged in an Ethernet cable to my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new phone. The estimate then dropped to 10 minutes. That’s frigging awesome. I kind of wonder where the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ethernet drops are within the Apple Store because I don’t remember having seen this in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John my- Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John inside the tables, you know, secret compartments.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, I know what you’re thinking of. I just didn’t realize there were Ethernet drops in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everything’s tucked in those tables. It’s so funny, whenever you discover something new, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ask for a bag or… The funny thing is if you need change from cash, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just touch somewhere and all of a sudden, boop, something pops out. Like, oh, you had those in there?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like… Yeah. You just pull the right book on the bookshelf and the thing turns around and there’s cash. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, yep, yep. But anyway, that’s extremely cool and I think that that’s very fun and very awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Although I wonder, what is the best way to handle both power delivery

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and ethernet?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess one of those pass-through USB-C hubs, like the dongles that have the ethernet and then the pass-through charging port.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah, that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep, yep, yep. We’ll get to that in the next bit of a follow-up here. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s right. Oh yeah, I should have kept reading, I apologize. So Chris Jones writes, after doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a device-to-device transfer, my iPhone 15 Pro still seems to be pulling a lot of data from the cloud. So I plugged the phone into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my laptop dock and was saturating my connection at 400 megabits downloading stuff via

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ethernet. That’s awesome, that’s super

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John fun. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John so if you’ve got a laptop dock that supports USB-C stuff, you can plug your phone into it to

⏹️ ▶️ John get access to the ethernet provided by that laptop dock, which probably has an ethernet port on it or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, all the benefits of USB-C. And to be clear, people are doing this, it’s not, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, it’s because they’re trying to get better than Wi-Fi speed. So Samuel was saying that he was getting 100 megabits

⏹️ ▶️ John in Wi-Fi, but USB-C, you know, is 10, what, 10 gigabits?

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have the right cable for it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was more than that, but you’re probably right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think it’s limited on the 15 Pro to 10 gigabits, but even 480 megabits is better than 100 megabits.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s incredible.

USB A-to-C-hole adapters

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Eric Merrill wrote in with regard to USB-A to USB-C adapters, the USB-C spec for backwards

⏹️ ▶️ Casey compatibility and cheapness reasons allows some cases where a USB-C plug connector may supply

⏹️ ▶️ Casey power blindly without negotiation or additional resistors, namely in A to C plug

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cables for charging and certain power adapters. But power adapters like this must have the cable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey permanently attached to the adapter, so there’s only a C plug connection available. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of this all USB-C socket ports must be able to receive 5 volts of power at any time without

⏹️ ▶️ Casey warning. A USB-C socket port is never allowed to supply power blindly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But a USB-A port is typically always supplying power and not expecting to receive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey power. So when you connect a USB-C socket to a USB-A plug adapter like the one John was describing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you have created a USB-C socket port with 5 volts being output on it. Depending on what things you plug into that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey port, you can connect two power supply outputs into each other, resulting in unexpected current

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John flow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There are safe ways to use these adapters, but they are not foolproof, and that’s why they’re prohibited by the spec.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that would probably explain why there’s so many people saying things melted or caught on fire, because this is just not

⏹️ ▶️ John supposed to happen. I know it’s confusing with the A and the C and the plug and the socket and everything, but basically,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is a violation of the spec, because you’ve got an A plug and a C socket, and

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re connected directly to each other. Not, you know, normally you would have a cable,

⏹️ ▶️ John and people think, well, if it’s a cable, isn’t just the exact same thing as the adapter but with a long string between it? No, because the cable

⏹️ ▶️ John would have a plug on both ends and there’d be no sockets. This is essentially an adapter, a dongle, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John can find these real cheap, but they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recommended. And if you think about what those adapters allow you to create is with one of those adapters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that converts A to a C hole, and then one of those basic C to A charging cables,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you can create, by plugging those into each other through the C’s, you can create an A to A cable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s what the problem is. Like if you have two A ports, both supplying power to each

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other and not expecting to receive power through into an A port, that’s a big problem. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are definitely risks for that. And that’s, so that’s the kind of thing, like it is possible to use these adapters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco safely if you are careful with how you connect them to things and what you are connecting them to. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as we know, it’s generally, you know, electrical standards and safety standards and things are usually designed in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a way so that it is impossible or very difficult to do the wrong thing. And these make it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very easy to do the wrong thing if you don’t really know what you’re doing. And this is one of the problems, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the first time in a while, the entire USB spec until C, all the various

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB plugs and ports were always directional by shape. You couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plug a cable in the wrong direction. You couldn’t have an adapter that adapted things wrong because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like all, you know, the A was the source and all the different Bs were all the destinations, there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no way to have, like you couldn’t make an A to A cable legitimately, and there would be no legitimate reason for somebody to ever buy one of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. So that’s why C made things more complicated, because with C,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you just have in your hand the end of a C cable, you don’t know whether that is sending or receiving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power. And so you kind of have to, things have to be designed a little more carefully.

15 Pro sharp edges?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, we have something labeled as sharp tech which I think is a reference to Ben

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thompson’s podcast, but nevertheless What is going on here?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, that is a reference to the podcast. This is about the there are many

⏹️ ▶️ John Kerfuffles as Casey would say Related to the new iPhones. This is one of them. We’ll get to more in a moment

⏹️ ▶️ John this is about the 15 pro and presumably also the 15 pro max with their titanium

⏹️ ▶️ John outer ring thing and And a bunch of people online have noted that when they

⏹️ ▶️ John got their 15 Pro or 15 Pro Max, they could feel something kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John sharp where the edge, the titanium edge meets

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen. Is this the front or the back glass? The front, although I think some people also

⏹️ ▶️ John feel on the back, but it’s mostly people talking about the front. And I had heard about this before my wife got her phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the very first thing I did, she’s got the 15 Pro natural titanium. The very first thing I did was took it out and

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to see if I could feel this thing people are talking about. And I could, but of course now,

⏹️ ▶️ John like we don’t know if I hadn’t heard about this online, would I have noticed it? I think I probably

⏹️ ▶️ John would have noticed it because it does feel different than the 14 Pro, which I have to

⏹️ ▶️ John compare it to. Now, obviously my wife’s gonna put a case on it, so it doesn’t really matter. You’re never gonna feel this seam again.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think it varies from phone to phone, but everyone has been comparing notes in this

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Rumors thread we’ll put on there saying, Here’s what mine feels like here’s what it looks like it’s very difficult to photograph because it’s very very

⏹️ ▶️ John small but the bottom line is there’s like a little tiny gap between the screen and

⏹️ ▶️ John the titanium edge and I was trying to sort of Quantify it in some way because taking a picture is

⏹️ ▶️ John hard This is the best I could come up with and it’s gonna sound ridiculous but it’s the only thing I could do if you take the corner

⏹️ ▶️ John of a piece of paper and Sort of put that corner at a 45 degree angle to the screen of

⏹️ ▶️ John your phone and then press it a little bit so the corner bends and then slide that corner

⏹️ ▶️ John towards the edge of your phone, it will catch when it gets to the titanium edge on my wife’s phone

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway. It will catch for a moment. Eventually you’ll be able to push past it. If you do the same thing

⏹️ ▶️ John on a 14 Pro, it does not catch, it just slides straight off the edge. Is this manufacturing variability?

⏹️ ▶️ John Is this just the way the phone is supposed to go together? Are some people’s phones

⏹️ ▶️ John different than other people’s with respect to this thing? I guess both of you have 15 Pros looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at it now. If you feel from like basically put your finger on the screen and slide it off the edge to the right

⏹️ ▶️ John or to the left, can you feel something sharp is the wrong word, but can you feel the titanium

⏹️ ▶️ John edge? Do you feel like there’s a little gap there? Can you feel

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it? Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very subtle. I mean, I would never have I would never have called this something wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It to me, this is just this is where two materials meet. But I can feel the edge just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco barely. I wouldn’t describe it even as sharp, but it’s that I actually I would say I feel a little bit more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the back glass on the bottom edge of the phone. That for some reason feels a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more prominent to me, but I wouldn’t describe either one of them as even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significantly noticeable, let alone a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John You should check all the different edges because that’s another thing I did on my wife’s phone. I’m like, well, is it more prominent

⏹️ ▶️ John on the upper left, upper right, low? And I did find a section of the phone where it felt more prominent. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John such small things that it’s hard to see, but again, compared to the 14 Pro, just the way they go together, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not really that same gap. What about you, Casey? Can you feel it?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s exactly what Marco said. I never in a million years would have classified this as a problem. I don’t think it is a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can sort of feel it, particularly in the bottom left-hand corner of the front of the device, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would not consider this a defect. Maybe the tolerance isn’t exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up to normal Apple standards, but had I not been told about this, there’s no way I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would have ever thought that there was anything even slightly wrong with this phone. and I still don’t really think there’s anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong with it. But yeah, there’s a little bit there, but not enough to make us think about in my personal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey opinion.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, again, this could just be the way this phone goes together, because there’s lots of different ways you can do that joint, and

⏹️ ▶️ John this phone is shaped different. It’s not exactly the same. It has the curve or whatever. So this just may be the way

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone is supposed to go together. And it’s just, you know, like in a car, there are panel gaps and there are with intolerances,

⏹️ ▶️ John whereas maybe the previous phones had more of an overlapping thing. So there was, you know, when you have overlapping things, it’s easier

⏹️ ▶️ John to hide differences and tolerances, as long as the overlap covers any difference. I

⏹️ ▶️ John will say though, that I think the fact that I can feel where the two materials joined together

⏹️ ▶️ John is less satisfying than if I couldn’t feel it. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco if this is the way it’s supposed to

⏹️ ▶️ John go together, I would recommend Apple reconsider it for the next phone design.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it’s, not that I use it without a case, but if I did use it without a case, it’s not as pleasing

⏹️ ▶️ John as, you know, obviously the 14 had very flat sides, but still at least the joints

⏹️ ▶️ John were good. But if you think about something like the iPhone 10, the way that felt, or the rounded sides or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John being able to feel any kind of seam or joint at that point where you hold the phone, I think is not ideal. So I would suggest

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple that they think about this going forward. Oh, and related to that, speaking of manufacturing

⏹️ ▶️ John variability, there is another Reddit post link from that same forum that if someone taking a phone in

⏹️ ▶️ John an Apple store and looking at the very top of the phone, like head on, the skinny end,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they can kind of see underneath the screen, like the backlight leaking out between the titanium edge and the screen, that

⏹️ ▶️ John seems like either the phone has been damaged by handling from, you know, the people who visit Apple stores, which would not

⏹️ ▶️ John be surprising because I bet those devices get a lot of abuse over the course of the day, or it could be a manufacturing

⏹️ ▶️ John defect. But yeah, tis the season for manufacturing defects and variability in the first

⏹️ ▶️ John run of the very new iPhone. Thank you.

Cases

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, and then we have all sorts of problems with the fine-woven case.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And let me just start by saying that I did put the fine-woven case on my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone when I received it on Friday. I lasted through the end of the day and then I decided

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m going to return it. I don’t have as visceral a hatred for it as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seemingly everyone else in under the sun does. I don’t think it’s that bad,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the conversation we’re about to have notwithstanding, but I I don’t know. It just, I didn’t care for it. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, really dislike not only the feel of the sides of it, but the look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the two tone thing. I just, I don’t like it. And as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, people are saying in the chat, it’s, it’s okay, but it’s just too darn expensive. Like this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is not a $60 case in my eyes. It’s a 20 or $30 case, as far as I’m concerned in terms

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the build quality and the way it feels in my hand. It’s not, I don’t like it. So right now I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am caseless, caseyless. AppleCare is my case. I do not plan to keep it that way because I’ve shattered

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last two phones I’ve treated this way. So I have not unequivocally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey concluded what I’m going to do, but I do have a peel case, P-E-E-L, in my Amazon shopping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cart, which I plan whenever we do the next family Amazon order, I will send

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that through, so to speak. I will have that delivered and I’ll see if that does the trick. I will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow up in the future.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so my wife still got her fine woven case and it, you know, she’s

⏹️ ▶️ John only used it for a few days now. So far it’s holding up okay, but the very first

⏹️ ▶️ John night she had the case on the phone and went to her nightstand to plug it in with the cables that we had wisely

⏹️ ▶️ John pre-ordered to make sure there was USB-C connections in all the places where she needed them, she said, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s something wrong here. She couldn’t plug the USB-C cable into her phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, what do you mean you can’t plug it in? It doesn’t do you have the wrong cable or it’s like it’s not it’s not going

⏹️ ▶️ John in and so I looked at it and you could See that we had you know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a

⏹️ ▶️ John high-quality anchor name-brand USB-C charging cable three feet long on just

⏹️ ▶️ John on her nightstand And if you try to plug it in the plug does not insert

⏹️ ▶️ John all the way Because the hole in the bottom of the case does not allow the

⏹️ ▶️ John you know Sort of plastic jacket around the metal USB C plug doesn’t allow it to pass

⏹️ ▶️ John through the hole is too small And I was like, oh, this is, I guess, do we just have really

⏹️ ▶️ John thick, you know, cable ends on these, you know, lots of good strain relief or whatever. And the answer

⏹️ ▶️ John is yes, this anchor cable does have pretty, a pretty thick plastic shroud around it. But that made me

⏹️ ▶️ John start looking at the bottom of this phone a little bit more closely. And it was immediately clear

⏹️ ▶️ John that the hole in the bottom of this fine woven case was not correctly centered around the USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ John port. Like not even close. Like you just visually anybody can look at this and

⏹️ ▶️ John say nope, that’s not centered I mean one of the ways to look at is there’s two little screws around the USB C

⏹️ ▶️ John Port itself and you can see a little bit of one of the screws and you can’t see any of the other but even if the Screws weren’t there.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is not centered horizontally. It’s also not centered vertically now all

⏹️ ▶️ John that said I did the test where I took the case off of the phone and Then just tried to see if I could

⏹️ ▶️ John pass the plug-in through it, you know without worrying about actually plugging the connector in because now it’s just an empty case.

⏹️ ▶️ John The anchor connector still does not fit through the opening even when there’s no phone inside

⏹️ ▶️ John there. So there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco two issues at play here. One,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have a USB-C charging cable that maybe you’ve been using for years

⏹️ ▶️ John on an iPad or some other device, maybe check whether the cable you’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ John use is able to pass through the hole in the bottom of your iPhone case, or do like I do and get a bare bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone case. Because that’s something we didn’t really have to think about with lightning because everybody selling

⏹️ ▶️ John a lightning cable or a case, it was kind of a, an ecosystem that

⏹️ ▶️ John you knew what you were going to get. The case has to accommodate a lightning cable and lightning cables have to accommodate cases and they all

⏹️ ▶️ John grew up together. So there was no instance where anyone was selling a lightning cable that couldn’t fit through a case hole.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there was no one selling cases that a lightning cable wouldn’t fit through, right? Cause it wouldn’t make sense. You know, what’s going to happen there.

⏹️ ▶️ John But USB-C cables have existed for years and years and many, many, many of those USB-C cables

⏹️ ▶️ John never had any expectation of ever being put into an iPhone, because iPhones didn’t have USB-C.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so lo and behold, all of these, this Anker cable, which we bought recently, was nevertheless

⏹️ ▶️ John a cable that existed in Anker’s line for probably years, and it was not made with the expectation that it would have

⏹️ ▶️ John to fit through a hole in the bottom of an iPhone case. And lo and behold, it doesn’t. So be

⏹️ ▶️ John aware of this. We’ll put a link in the show notes to two examples to the cable that didn’t fit. And I also found a tiny little

⏹️ ▶️ John short cable that I bought for our little charging shelf area

⏹️ ▶️ John that does fit, and it was just luck of the draw that one of them fit and one of them didn’t. But think about that, even if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not getting the Apple case. But yeah, the Apple case is getting slammed by everybody because the hole’s

⏹️ ▶️ John off-center and it’s getting people very upset. It’s not just me that has an off-center hole. A lot of people have off-center holes.

⏹️ ▶️ John In fact, a couple of people wrote in with, or you know, tooted that the Apple silicone

⏹️ ▶️ John case is also off-center. So I don’t know if this is just a big manufacturing problem with their cases that they can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John center the hole around the port. Maybe this has always happened and we just never noticed because again, the lightning connector, maybe there was enough

⏹️ ▶️ John like room around the openings that it wasn’t a big deal, but now the tolerances seem real close if you have a thick

⏹️ ▶️ John USB-C cable. So this is not going great for the fine woven case, but the hits

⏹️ ▶️ John keep coming.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, well, in for what it’s worth, I did break out my fine woven case from the box where I had put it in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey order to send it or bring it back to Apple, which I plan to do in the next day or two. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyways, I put it back on my phone very briefly and the port,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the hole seems to be perfectly centered on mine. So I did get lucky in that regard. Unfortunately, it sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like you did not.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s not just me. There’s lots of people reporting this. Vatici reported that he brought his fine

⏹️ ▶️ John woven case on his iPhone to dinner with him and put his phone down on the table. And the next morning woke up and realized

⏹️ ▶️ John he had picked up a stain. Because when you make things out of fabric or fabric type material, you can pick

⏹️ ▶️ John up stains if you put it down in some kind of liquid. Whoops. I did peek at my wife’s fine woven case

⏹️ ▶️ John before I came down here to podcast, and it still looks pretty much pristine, but I’ll keep you updated on that.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I can tell you from Christian Mumaw’s tweet on, sorry, on September

⏹️ ▶️ John 23rd, in the Apple Store in Boston, the two fine woven cases on display looked like they were attacked

⏹️ ▶️ John by a badger.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that’s probably from people who read the Verg story, like, oh, you scratch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Exactly, some people go online, they read a story about how these things scratch when you,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, look ugly when you scratch them with your fingernail, and then they go into an Apple store, and what do they do? They take their fingernail

⏹️ ▶️ John and they go, so this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People are going to Apple store. I mean, it kind of makes some sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John You want to know, hey, if I buy this case, is it going to scratch real easily? And one way to figure that

⏹️ ▶️ John out is to go, and it scratches the case. And so we’ll put a link in the show notes to this.

⏹️ ▶️ John To see two very, very scratched fine woven cases.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a number of angles to this. Number one, I think anyone who’s interested a bunch of fine-woven complaining and nerdery,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco definitely listen to Upgrade from, I think today or yesterday. There was a great segment Jason was talking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about how like, there was probably like a group in Apple responsible for make a premium

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case that we can sell for 60 bucks and when the leather went away they’re kind of like, uh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now what? And they made this kind of in that price point and in that role rather than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trying to figure out like, you know, what can we actually make that’s nice and doesn’t need to keep that same price point or or whatever else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the leather

⏹️ ▶️ John cases were more expensive than this though. This is underpricing. The leather was leather was like 70 or 80, wasn’t it? No, I think it was 60

⏹️ ▶️ John bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was in the ballpark regardless. This this is not a good case, like this is a this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a a an interesting first attempt. I hope they’re going to revise this because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, what they said in upgrade like Apple’s cases, you could you could always say they were expensive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they were at least good. And this is just this is expensive and not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good, and that’s not great for them. That being said, I got my Peak Design Everyday case, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I loved the iPhone 14 version of it, and I lasted about five minutes with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it on my iPhone 15 Pro because they did not add a button for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the action button. They just had a cutout.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I did hear about this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So most third-party cases for the 15 continued their previous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco approximate design where you would have a cutout where the silent and ring switch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was. And cause that way you weren’t constantly pushing it in and there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no way to like have like a sliding switch on a case that was any usefulness there. So everyone just had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cutouts. You could reach in kind of with your fingernail and flip it over if you really wanted to, but it was more difficult.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I’m already so accustomed to using the action button for something fun that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having it be like buried in a cutout of the case made it too difficult to access. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would strongly suggest anybody out there, If you’re designing a case for the iPhone 15 Pro, that’s gotta be a button.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It can’t be a cutout anymore. And anybody out there who has an iPhone 15 Pro and is case shopping, strongly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco advise, get one that has a button there, not a cutout.

⏹️ ▶️ John And look at the cutout on the bottom and make sure your cables fit in it.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You know, I got a new case for

⏹️ ▶️ John my phone, my phone as well, my iPhone 14 Pro. I just went up to the attic and pulled down the Bullstrap case,

⏹️ ▶️ John which was basically a clone of the Ryan London leather case. And I swapped them out, so now I have a nice

⏹️ ▶️ John brand new case. So of course, you know, I thought about it. I was like, you know, maybe I should just keep this one on it because my

⏹️ ▶️ John Ryan London one has been on it for a year and it’s kind of nicely broken in, but it’s also kind of like dented and I dropped

⏹️ ▶️ John it a bunch of times or whatever. So I’m starting over and I got a break in the bull strap case and it’s, it’s working out well so far.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the fine woven thing, obviously the manufacturing defects are bad. I don’t like that the

⏹️ ▶️ John hole is not centered. The fact that cables don’t fit, like the anchor USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ John cable I have, it doesn’t fit both in width and in height. So it’s not like it’s just one dimension, both

⏹️ ▶️ John dimensions don’t fit. If you made the case larger to accommodate this cable, I think the

⏹️ ▶️ John edges of the case might be too thin, like the top and bottom might be too thin. So I kind of understand why the opening

⏹️ ▶️ John is the size it is. It’s just a very thick cable, but it’s something to keep in mind. But I kind of like how it looks and how

⏹️ ▶️ John it feels. Again, durability, I don’t know how that’s gonna work out. It’s only, it’s been like a week or whatever now.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I think I like, I kind of like the rubbery-ish sides. I think the back looks

⏹️ ▶️ John and feels nice. I think it would be a $60 case if you like how

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks and feels, because that’s just an aesthetic thing and just a tactile thing, and if they can get the holes to line up

⏹️ ▶️ John with the ports, because I feel like it’s kind of an important thing for a $60 case. And again, someone put in a picture of an Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John silicone case with exactly the same problem. So this may be something that has always happened and we’ve just never noticed

⏹️ ▶️ John that the holes in the bottom of Apple’s iPhone cases have been off by a fraction of a millimeter or two, because

⏹️ ▶️ John it never mattered until people are trying to plug in cables that don’t fit, and then they’re staring

⏹️ ▶️ John at that bottom hole like I was and noticing that it’s off. But again, I’m a strong proponent

⏹️ ▶️ John of an iPhone case that does not have anything covering the bottom, not for plugging in ports, so that’s just a

⏹️ ▶️ John nice side effect, but because you swipe up from the bottom to unlock the thing and I can’t stand swiping up over

⏹️ ▶️ John the lip of a case and Apple really needs to get on that. I mean, it was last year, the clear case didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a bottom lip. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have, I was gonna say, I haven’t seen one yet, but they still sell the clear case. And honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually might get one because, oh, by the way, before I get to that, real-time follow-up, multiple people in the chat are reporting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that apparently Peak Design agrees with me, and they’re going to revise the case and issue swaps or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco refunds? That’s amazing if

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s true. I can’t believe that they would, you know, like everybody knew about the action button. I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John believe they would sell the case with that giant opening in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Regardless, look, hey, look, I thought bad of me. That’s, I mean, geez, if they actually do that, that’s, look, I love Peak

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Design. That’s why I blindly give them so much of my business. That’s kind of amazing if they actually do that. Anyway, secondly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the the clear case, like right now, I think the Apple clear case might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the best Apple case period because… Did

⏹️ ▶️ John you try the clear case in the 14 Pro?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, I owned one. I used it until I got the Peak Design case, which was probably about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe a quarter or half the year. That’s right, we talked about this

⏹️ ▶️ John last year. No, I did not like the clear case.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco No, the only problem, it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feels great in the hand because it’s like nice tacky plastic. The only problem I have with it is that like any clear case, eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get a bunch of dust and crap under there and it looks really terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does it they turn yellow?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do you know? No, I well, I mean again I only did it for him before five months, but it didn’t happen during that time, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was great I if I did if I had to discover the Pete design case halfway through the year I would have stuck with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it for the whole year

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna imagine the reason that I think we talked about this last year Like why doesn’t the clear case have a bottom lip wall of apples other ones do I

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine it might have to do with the Fact like what I just said when if you do the cutout hole for the lightning

⏹️ ▶️ John or USB C port It leaves such a thin piece of material above and below the port

⏹️ ▶️ John that maybe they’re afraid it would like crack or whatever material, clear things made up. So they just left it open. But Apple, please

⏹️ ▶️ John open bottom cases. You used to make them all the time and then you didn’t. Ugh, just, it kills me. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John for iPhone 16 Pro, I will be third-party case shopping again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is like unified timeline. I understand that it is a do or die requirement for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t understand why. You do you, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t- No, it is better. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John really is.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you had a case, like, you know, ignorance is bliss, as you would say, you haven’t experienced this, so you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, it’s fine, I don’t mind it or whatever. But as soon as you had a case that didn’t have the lip, it’s just so much nicer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I guess, but I grabbed my 14 Pro, which is sitting next to me, and it has the Apple leather

⏹️ ▶️ Casey case on it with a big old lip on the bottom. And I don’t mind it. Like it just does not bother me like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it bothers you, but to each their own. So Jem wrote in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with some feedback. As a woman who has had to deal with phones being far too big for her small hands for many years,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve found popsockets to be really uncomfortable. I find straps like this one, and we’ll put a link in the show notes, to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much more ergonomic. There’s plenty of versions available, including magnetic ones with card holders, etc. Just thought I’d pass the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey info along in case the popsocket gives you a cramp in your hand like it does for me. And we’ll put a link in the show notes to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this. Let me start by saying I’ve never tried one of these. This doesn’t look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the sort of thing that I would enjoy, but, you know, I’ve seen several people make this recommendation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So maybe it’s worth a shot. And certainly it’s a heck of a lot cheaper than a pop socket. It’s like a third of the cost.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s much less ridiculous than a pop socket. A pop socket struck me as like, I know they have ones that collapse

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything, but it’s just like, talk about adding a structural element to your phone. A strap

⏹️ ▶️ John seems much less intrusive because it can kind of lay flat when you’re not using it and you don’t have to like unpop it or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. But I know love people love their pop sockets and it just becomes like part of the phone. It just, it always

⏹️ ▶️ John seemed kind of like a, it turns your phone into like one of those little puzzle pieces that you give like kids, you know, like little wooden puzzles. They have little

⏹️ ▶️ John plastic pegs. You can grab the puzzle piece real easily.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I should point out the Peak Design Everyday Case does have a loop option on it for 10 bucks more. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s what this what this link is, is much larger. This is this is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole height of the phone. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you should have your

⏹️ ▶️ John whole hand through

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it loops through the camera hole down to the bottom of the case. I mean, that’s that’s quite that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a huge ordeal.

⏹️ ▶️ John deal. I mean it’s like a pop socket is like you know it is like a peg in the middle that you put between

⏹️ ▶️ John your fingers right and this is the opposite of that it’s around the outside of your hand either way it’s making it so

⏹️ ▶️ John that if you open your hand the phone doesn’t fall either because the pop socket is between your fingers or because the

⏹️ ▶️ John strap is over your hand? Yep.

Chip binning by power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anonymous writes, now we are leaving all case-related things. Anonymous writes in with regard to Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and chip binning, which I think was an Ask ATP from last week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyways, when it comes to silicon chip production, both Apple and Intel create bins based on efficiency

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they do different things with the bins. While Intel holds power fixed and lets frequency vary,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple holds frequency or performance fixed and bins by power consumption.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For example, a Mac mini can tolerate a hotter SoC than a MacBook Air. meaning higher power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey consumption. Just like Intel, Apple is motivated to use as much of the wafer as possible, not just for financial

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasons, but also for carbon footprint. TSMC does not use particularly clean energy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is really interesting. So, I don’t, forgive me, I, again, I only have like a rudimentary understanding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of modern chip and chip design and chip manufacturing. But I know like, you know, back in the, back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the days when I actually attempted overclocking as a PC user, a chip might run at a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frequency just fine only if you increase the voltage a little bit and when you increase the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco voltage it makes it use way more power like in whatever steps we were dealing with back then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes way more heat etc. but you know certain speeds were attainable only by increasing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the voltage so this is interesting you know if if things work at all that way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco today which I’m sure it’s more complicated than that today but the basic idea is probably still there, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a chip might be able to perform at full speed, but you need to give it a bit more power to do so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s a really interesting idea, if this is true, that they could bin based on, okay, the ones that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can achieve full speed at the lowest power, those are going in laptops. The ones that need a bit more power, those are going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in John’s Mac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, not my Mac Pro, but yeah, the whole idea is, if you don’t know, like Apple basically more or less holds the

⏹️ ▶️ John clock speeds the same, but they’re just picking the ones like, you know, which one uses more power to

⏹️ ▶️ John achieve the target fixed clock speed that we have. And so they’ll try every chip off the line and say, is this a good

⏹️ ▶️ John one? We can achieve our single fixed clock speed. And it’s not fixed as they can change, but whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re not selling faster or slower ones on their website. You just you get what you get and it, you know, it clocks

⏹️ ▶️ John up and down. Right. But the ones that use more power to do so, they’ll save them for the ones that have better cooling

⏹️ ▶️ John systems. So that’s the way Apple has been. Because as you had last show, the variability in manufacturing exists

⏹️ ▶️ John no matter what. Like there’s no way to make if they could make them all exactly the same on the wafer they would but they can’t so there’s Always going to

⏹️ ▶️ John be quote-unquote good ones and quote-unquote bad ones And what this is saying is within the line of laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John that use the same SOC They’re gonna put the quote-unquote good ones in the ones with the worst cooling

⏹️ ▶️ John system So it’s not and that’s gonna be the cheapest ones You know the MacBook Air with no fan right and the quote-unquote

⏹️ ▶️ John bad ones are gonna end up in a Mac Studio because they have a Much bigger cooler there Which is kind of the opposite of the way it is when you’re bidding

⏹️ ▶️ John by clock speed where you test them and you find the the ones that can go at higher clock speed, but I don’t, you know, Apple doesn’t crank

⏹️ ▶️ John up the clock speeds the higher. I think that maybe the Studio does have a little bit higher clock than like the MacBook Air and those stuff, and obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John thermal throttling is a big deal, but that’s another reason the good ones end up going in the MacBook Air because it’s gonna thermal

⏹️ ▶️ John throttle no matter what. You don’t want it to be thermal throttled so badly that it kills the performance of the chip.

No gains from 3nm?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Geeker Juan apparently has thoughts on the A17 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and they decide that it is powerful but should be more efficient. John, tell me about this, please.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is a YouTuber I hadn’t seen before. I was really impressed by it because they’re really diving as deep

⏹️ ▶️ John as they possibly can into the chip itself, going down to the point of like more detail

⏹️ ▶️ John than Apple gave. We read the detail that Apple gave during the event of like a wider decode

⏹️ ▶️ John and a better branch predictor or whatever. There’s also new ALUs in there as well. So they have like a chip

⏹️ ▶️ John diagram, you know, they get these devices and then they probe them as best they can without

⏹️ ▶️ John cutting the top off the chip. So they’re probing them with software or whatever to figure out what’s different about

⏹️ ▶️ John the A17 Pro versus the A16. And so they have a bunch of diagrams giving that information and then they tested them.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, A17 Pro versus A16 versus like the latest Snapdragon

⏹️ ▶️ John SOCs and everything to find out, to try to dig into the point I was making on the last show

⏹️ ▶️ John of like three nan, TSMC’s three nanometer. Does it take less

⏹️ ▶️ John energy per instruction executed? Right, are we, what is the, are we receiving any of the

⏹️ ▶️ John promise of a silicon shrink? And this is from the verdict chapter of the video

⏹️ ▶️ John after extensive testing. I would encourage you to watch it if you’re interested in this topic. It’s kind of long, but they do go into lots of detail.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is from the verdict. This is Geeker Juan, whoever, whoever does the presenter on this channel.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now I just feel a bit bad. Not only about iPhones, but also about the future of the semiconductor industry.

⏹️ ▶️ John Some conclusion, the A17 Pro being the first three nanometer chip didn’t showcase any clear

⏹️ ▶️ John advantages over TSMC’s last gen product. Electrical wise, I still don’t have a die shot, so I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know density wise. But if efficiency isn’t improved at all, even with such a huge jump in fabrication,

⏹️ ▶️ John then how can we make chips better in the future? He is not excited about three nanometer

⏹️ ▶️ John based on the results. And you can go through the benchmark by benchmark and see. and by the way, you also see that some

⏹️ ▶️ John of the the Snapdragon SOCs are actually performing better in GPU, but

⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t have like the 3d ray tracing stuff or whatever So Apple’s lead in SOCs.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s still there. It still exists Especially in power efficiency. You’ll see some tests where

⏹️ ▶️ John the a17 Pro is matching a snapdragons using twice as much power But

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a giant clear-cut victory that used to be the competition is kind of catching up and three nanometer

⏹️ ▶️ John according to the tests that people have been able to do so far, is not really bringing the dividends

⏹️ ▶️ John people thought it would so far.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wonder how much, I mean, again, like this is not anywhere near my area of expertise, but I wonder how much of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is just that maybe Apple didn’t really take advantage of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as much of the new design tweaks that are possible with the new process? I’m not sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s hard to tell. One of the most convincing tests was they got to the point where like the A17 Pro was throttling, which

⏹️ ▶️ John is another issue people are saying that the A17 Pro doesn’t have as much thermal mass to dissipate heat,

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s hot faster. But anyway, they had like a diagram of like power draw

⏹️ ▶️ John and clock frequency, and you’d see like the A17 Pro would be taking more power, but going a much

⏹️ ▶️ John higher clock than the A16, and then all of a sudden at a certain point in the test, the A17 Pro throttles, and it throttled

⏹️ ▶️ John down to the same clock speed as the A16 was and at the same clock speed as the A16, it

⏹️ ▶️ John used exactly the same amount of power. that’s not what you would expect from a shrink. You know what I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like you would say, oh, if you shrink, I can either go faster with the same power or use more power.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know, like just, it was a very convincing diagram that to

⏹️ ▶️ John lend credence to the idea that three nanometer is not buying us any power efficiencies, at least not yet. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John also other stories about how this three nanometer process that TSMC is using

⏹️ ▶️ John right now, they have all these like, we did the same thing with five nanometer. They have like these letter suffixes. this

⏹️ ▶️ John is, you know, the 5N process or the 3E process. This is like the first

⏹️ ▶️ John version of 3 nanometer. And supposedly, as early as next year, like the

⏹️ ▶️ John beginning of next year, they’ll be onto a new variation of the 3 nanometer process that is

⏹️ ▶️ John better than this one. So maybe just the very first 3 nanometer process is not giving lots of dividends, but

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, it seems like most of the things that are better about the A17 Pro have

⏹️ ▶️ John almost nothing to do with 3 nanometer, and it’s more like, Well, it has ray tracing and has another GPU core and we

⏹️ ▶️ John can clock it a little bit higher. But when we clock a little bit higher, it also uses more power and that produces more heat.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the iPhone 15 Pro is not very good about dissipating that heat and so are thermal throttles and

⏹️ ▶️ John not impressive showing for the A17 Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do wonder how much that is the enclosure design, you know, cause the iPhone 15 Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I was setting it up, gave me the, you know, I’m too hot for full speed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco charging kind of warning. Like it overheated while I was just like transferring my old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone to the new phone. I’ve never seen an iPhone do that. I like, I’ve only seen an iPhone overheat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like in the sun, outside, like, you know, that kind of stuff. I’ve never seen it overheat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while on my desk in the evening, just, you know, transferring a bunch of data to it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does seem like the new enclosure design for the iPhone 15 Pro, as much as I love it in other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways, which I guess we’ll get to, But as much as I love it in other ways, something is not as good about the cooling.

⏹️ ▶️ John For sure. I mean, if you just go down to the fact that I don’t think titanium dissipates heat as well as aluminum,

⏹️ ▶️ John but even if it did, there’s just less of it, less mass. So you have less mass dissipating the heat.

⏹️ ▶️ John So, you know, cause the thing is lighter. And Apple has never been particularly aggressive about

⏹️ ▶️ John the cooling in the phones. There’ve been some rumors about them using like vapor chamber heat pipey

⏹️ ▶️ John type things or whatever, but so far they haven’t really gone whole hog with that in their phones.

⏹️ ▶️ John Android phones in many years past have had to, by necessity, have much more robust cooling

⏹️ ▶️ John systems because their SOCs just simply use more power, right? And there’s a whole separate breed

⏹️ ▶️ John of Android phones that are like gaming phones, essentially. Some of them, you have fans in them, for crying out loud, but like they have

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco way

⏹️ ▶️ John more, yeah, they have way more robust.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was about to make a joke about that. That actually exists.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think a couple of them have tiny little fans, but even with the ones that don’t, they have more robust cooling systems

⏹️ ▶️ John and they reap the benefits from it. It doesn’t take much more effort in cooling to really,

⏹️ ▶️ John because you just have to do something more than what Apple does. But Apple has thus far decided that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not particularly interested in expending space, weight, cost

⏹️ ▶️ John to allow this. Because I mean, and I think it’s reasonable. Like, people aren’t running

⏹️ ▶️ John sustained batch jobs for their work on their phone that they need to run without throttling.

⏹️ ▶️ John And yeah, all these phones throttle. But again, setting aside the thermal

⏹️ ▶️ John characteristics of the 15 Pro and the 15 Pro Max, the, you gotta watch this video, like

⏹️ ▶️ John when going the same clock speed as the A16, this three nanometer chip was using exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John amount of power, and that is not great. And you can say, oh, but it’s doing more, because it was just, it was

⏹️ ▶️ John like a CPU test. It wasn’t even like a ray tracing GPU thing where you can say, well, but it’s doing more ray tracing stuff. So

⏹️ ▶️ John technically it’s still doing more work for the same power. Like watts per instruction executed is not

⏹️ ▶️ John looking impressive in three nanometer. And someone in the chat room said that the A17 is on the

⏹️ ▶️ John N3B process and next year it will be N3E because E is after B,

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess. Anyway, we’re never gonna remember these things. But suffice it to say, TSMC continues to improve their process

⏹️ ▶️ John and next year there’ll be a better three nanometer process. Hopefully they’ll use that one for the Mac chips.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, did you see what user Tyler in the chat linked to? Is it a gaming phone?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is a MagSafe compatible attachment fan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sold by the gaming company Razer that is $60. Does it have RGB

⏹️ ▶️ John lights in it?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John have RGB lights in it. That must be for gamers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my, well maybe I should get this next time I have to do a phone transfer. Oh my God, this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is incredible.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you gotta watch that video because in the video one of the things they do is they have, they basically have phone coolers

⏹️ ▶️ John because they wanna run some tests where they can guarantee the phone not going to throttle so they massively cool them by

⏹️ ▶️ John sticking the phone into this rig that just like blows cold air at the back of a phone constantly when they’re running

⏹️ ▶️ John it. This is like a consumer version of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Seven blade fan with up to 6400 RPM. You know how loud that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be?

⏹️ ▶️ John I got headphones in anyway, it’s fine. This is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amazing. That is kind of amazing.

People, Pets, and Places

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Holy Jamolis.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. And finally for followup, John, I was 17 people’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pets and places.

⏹️ ▶️ John One of the things I was most excited about in this year’s crop of OS is that I think we talked about when we were discussing

⏹️ ▶️ John their feature sets was the fact that, you know, photos is going to start recognizing

⏹️ ▶️ John animals just like it recognizes people. So I have had been fighting

⏹️ ▶️ John with photos to have a people album that recognizes everybody in my family and a bunch of my relatives and so on and so forth. I still

⏹️ ▶️ John of course do manually tagging of my immediate family Which is much more reliable because the

⏹️ ▶️ John faces thing occasionally forgets who everybody is and loses track But anyway, I’m trying to use a system I’m like, but I have

⏹️ ▶️ John so many pictures of my dog my my current dog my past dog and it has no idea who they Are

⏹️ ▶️ John I know it knows it can identify dogs and it has that little dog overlay that will try to tell you what breed your Dog is and get it hilariously

⏹️ ▶️ John wrong all the time But it will find other dogs that look so much my dog which is a fun feature But this year is like now

⏹️ ▶️ John pets can be people too And on my iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is another thing, when you have the shared iCloud shared photo album, it doesn’t share faces.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve discussed this before. It doesn’t share album, it doesn’t share faces, right? So any work that I do on my iPhone related

⏹️ ▶️ John to faces is pointless because the quote unquote real library is my wife’s library or my wife’s is the

⏹️ ▶️ John owner of the shared library. And nothing I do on my phone can influence the face data

⏹️ ▶️ John for our real library. But despite that, when I upgraded my phone of iOS 17,

⏹️ ▶️ John I went into the photos app on my phone and in the album section, what was previously the people

⏹️ ▶️ John album now said, people, pets and places. And lo and behold, it had little circles for everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John in my family. And then it had my little dog in a circle and it had my dog’s name

⏹️ ▶️ John under it. I’m like, how the hell did you know my dog’s name? I guess based on the tag, cause I’ve tagged, like, you know, I have a daisy tag

⏹️ ▶️ John for all the pictures of my dog. But anyway, I’m like, wow, this is great. I can’t wait until

⏹️ ▶️ John my wife upgrades and her Mac upgrades, right? And everyone gets upgraded, I’ll be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John finally go into the real photo album, which is the owner of the shared iCloud photo library. And she

⏹️ ▶️ John has the canonical set of actually curated over many, many years, people, place and face data. And I’ll be

⏹️ ▶️ John able to start tagging all the pictures of my dog, do that thing where it says, review these faces. Is this your dog? Is this your dog?

⏹️ ▶️ John Is this your dog? You know, that’s the exercise of doing this, right? When I did it on my phone, it

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t give me any pictures to review. And in fact, on my phone, it had a little tag, a little people thing

⏹️ ▶️ John for my wife, and I went into it and had found one picture of my wife, and I’m pretty sure I have more than that. And then I went,

⏹️ ▶️ John review additional pictures, and it says, sorry, there are no additional pictures of your wife. I’m like, are you sure? Because again,

⏹️ ▶️ John on my phone, it has access to the whole shared photo library. It’s not just like my

⏹️ ▶️ John personal photos, but the face data that I derive from that is only

⏹️ ▶️ John private to me. So my wife has the canonical face data. Anyway, when my wife upgraded all her

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, I went into the canonical photo library on her phone and

⏹️ ▶️ John it just said people. It didn’t even say people in places. I think it just said people. And there was no dogs in there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Upgraded her Mac to Sonoma. Now it’s running Sonoma and I’ve let it sit there all day. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John go over it and launch photos on her Mac and go to the albums and it just says people. Like what

⏹️ ▶️ John happened to people, pets in places? Eventually it did say people in places but it doesn’t say pets.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can go and look at a picture of my dog. I have so many of them. Does it circle my dog’s face and say,

⏹️ ▶️ John identify this dog? No, it does not. And so here I am once again, just as we discussed in the past episode,

⏹️ ▶️ John begging Apple for a button that would say, find faces now. Only now I want it to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John find pet faces now. This is the main feature I wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John use from this cycle of upgrades, is I want to be able to identify all my current and past pets

⏹️ ▶️ John in my photo album. And it’s been one or two days since I’ve upgraded this stuff, and I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John use the feature because I don’t know when it’s going to decide to identify my dog’s face in a literal

⏹️ ▶️ John thousands of pictures I have of my dog. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had a similar experience and for what it’s worth, I am the Tina in, in our relationship when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it comes to photo stuff. My library was canonical one and Aaron jumped onto it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, I was also super excited to see penny pictures, you know, found in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my photo library and our photo library. And I went and did the same thing and said, Oh, it’s not there yet. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it took, I think one overnight on the charger

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for before my phone found Penny. It did not label Penny with a name, but it found Penny

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and added her as, you know, a potential pet or whatever. And I also noticed that as you said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the, the album or whatever, the, the thing that, that you can go to is no longer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey people it’s like you said, people, pets and places. Um, but anyways, it took overnight

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it was, well, I was going to say plugged in, but it was charging via Qi. It took overnight

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to churn on this, presumably while power was connected before it gave me that option and flip that switch.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now I agree, it would be nice if we could say, do it now. But if you wait at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey least a night, which I guess at this point you probably have.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I’ve waited multiple nights. I know how this works. I know they say, oh, we’ll do it while your thing is plugged in and charging.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s been multiple nights on her phone because she obviously got her phone on basically on lunch day. So it’s been multiple nights plugged

⏹️ ▶️ John in every single night into a cable. And, you know, her Mac is grinding away now using the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing I described before, which is basically launch photos, then quit photos, then look in activity monitor and make sure you see photo analysis

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re using some percentage of your CPU or whatever. Like it’s doing the work and I have a huge library, so it’s gonna take a

⏹️ ▶️ John while, but it’s the same problem I was saying before. Like, I don’t wanna have to wait for the lowest of

⏹️ ▶️ John low priority processes to do this, especially on her Mac Studio. I wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John to say, use all the resources of this Mac Studio that is otherwise sitting idle while she’s at work to

⏹️ ▶️ John right now find all the faces. And maybe give me a progress bar that says, you know, how far

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey along are you? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not gonna take a day, 24 hours, 15 hours, two hours. But instead it’s like, I will only do

⏹️ ▶️ John it under special circumstances when I feel just right. And then even then I’m gonna do it with lowest

⏹️ ▶️ John possible priority. And I mean, how many nights does her phone need to be plugged in? Is it a boarding in the middle? Cause it doesn’t finish

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s not making any progress. Is it gonna do it after a week? So frustrating. Like this

⏹️ ▶️ John is a feature I wanna use And it’s almost like, hey, if you have 10 photos on your phone, yeah, when you upgrade to iOS 17,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ll get these new features. But if you have hundreds of thousands of photos, you’ll get these new features at

⏹️ ▶️ John some point in the future. Can’t tell you when. No indication that it’s doing any work.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just trust us. It probably is, but at the lowest possible priority. Very frustrating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s my dog’s face and I want it now.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do. And there’s so many pictures you would think like it would do it incrementally, like there’s just so many of them like

⏹️ ▶️ John go reverse chronological, just thousands and thousands of dog pictures. Right? Just I don’t want you to have identified

⏹️ ▶️ John all of them. Identify one, just one, so I can make the people like make some progress. But it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re not going to do anything until I’ve scanned all 170,000 photos. All right, fine, I’ll just

⏹️ ▶️ John keep waiting, I suppose.

Our iPhones 15 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s talk about new toys. So, John, I guess we don’t need you for a while. You can go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a snack or whatever. But Marco and I have new toys. And Marco, you got a 15 Pro. In what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey color, in what capacity?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got one of the many shades of gray that’s available in, the middle one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, thank you. Okay. The middle one. Oh, totally. Yes, indeed. It’s gray.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And 256, my my usual capacity and I am so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far extremely happy with it. I mean, I know I say this pretty much every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year. So the way this thing feels, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might try to go caseless the whole year because it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey feels- Oh, I’ve been thinking about it too. I’ve been thinking about it too. It feels great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it is, it is noticeable to be lighter. It is not as light as the non-pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phones and that’s clear as soon as you pick it up, but the improvement is noticeable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco With the exception of the alleged sharp edge that John was talking about earlier, I love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new rounded edges. I think they really feel very good in the hand.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the phone looks fantastic from the edge. And I mentioned this briefly last week, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really never see the back of my phone. I only ever see the edges, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I’m holding my phone, I’m seeing the front, then it goes in my pocket. If my phone is out on a table or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco desk, I’m not gonna put the screen down and scratch it like a monster. So the screen’s always up,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or if it’s charging on a dock, then it’s up also. So I pretty much never see the back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of my phone. It could be hot pink, and I think it would take me three days to notice. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the fact that the back of it is gray instead of gray or gray, doesn’t really matter to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The sides look fantastic. That’s what I care about. The metal edges of the phone, that’s the part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually see. That looks fantastic. I’m extremely happy with it. It feels great in the hand, as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I said. I am very much enjoying playing with different options for the action button.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m currently using the flashlight because I actually use the phone flashlight somewhat regularly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my life. And I have found so far that is best bang for the buck

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for me, but I love what everyone’s, like I’ve heard so many reports of people having good ideas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for it. You know, so certain people, like, you know, Grouper has a shortcut to toggle certain things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Obviously I tried launching a camera with it. And if you do launch camera with it, then it becomes a shutter button as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To me, that doesn’t offer enough over just like the regular lock screen, you know, long press camera button that I’ve been using. And yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know about the swipe, I’ve never got used to it. But anyway, so I tried camera, wasn’t good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough for me. Flash that I’m loving. Some people have made like, you know, create a new note shortcuts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or certain like, you know, workflow-y kind of things. Tons of good ideas out there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, a lot of people are doing the thing where the button does something different based on all sorts of factors,

⏹️ ▶️ John which to me would just make me think too hard every time I pressed the button or what’s gonna happen. But some of those factors are simple

⏹️ ▶️ John things like orientation and if you’re in landscape and you’d have actually action button does one thing, but if you’re portrait

⏹️ ▶️ John does something else, you can combine that with things like, am I on wifi or cellular? What is my current location?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like basically anything that a shortcut can do, you can do because you know, it’s just, you can just have as many conditionals

⏹️ ▶️ John as you want and say, okay, well, if I’m home and it’s in landscape and it’s a Tuesday and the tide is

⏹️ ▶️ John down, then when I press the button, it should bring up that like you can do anything you want. People I feel like are

⏹️ ▶️ John going a little bit overboard. Yeah, I just, I set my wife’s thing to I think

⏹️ ▶️ John camera. I’m not sure she’s ever pressed the button yet. So I’ll give you more news on that as we go.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, actually what I don’t think this is possible yet. What I would love would be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lock and unlock of my car. Because it’s the proximity lock and sometimes I wanna like just do it manually. That would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be nice. You should be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John do that. Like this is by the way is a new class of apps that I’m seeing get much more popular now that the action button is here.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apps that essentially the only thing they do is vend actions to shortcuts. There’s a whole bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of those out there that people, I think Gruber used one in one of his things, there’s another one that does like, enter your

⏹️ ▶️ John open AI key and we could do chat GPT things. And it’s all just a connection to shortcuts.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s exciting to see people trying stuff like this. And I think unlocking your car, that’s something that should be possible

⏹️ ▶️ John with the cooperation of the people who make the app that unlocks your car. Or if someone has hacked

⏹️ ▶️ John the API, you can just figure out what blob of JSON to send to your car, then you could probably do it yourself.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it’s this whole Bluetooth short range thing. I don’t know how easy that would be. Anyway, so it’s been the action button so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far, loving it. So, so far I’m very happy with the phone. I am a little concerned about the thermal situation,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t really, you know, my phone is not aggressively being used as like a benchmarking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tool or, you know, I hardly ever play games on it. So I’m probably not gonna see problems with that, I hope, over time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John having no case, by the way, is much better than smothering your phone in a case that’s keeping

⏹️ ▶️ John heat in because at least the heat is able to dissipate into the air rather than being trapped in a

⏹️ ▶️ John snug rubber case or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and hey, maybe you could make like, oh man, people can make heat sink cases. That would be comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to hold.

⏹️ ▶️ John There is one that’s shaped like that or is trying to be an imitation of the 2019 Mac Pro, actually 2019, the current Mac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that kind of cheese

⏹️ ▶️ John grater-y type look, there’s a bunch of metal cases that are like that. So yeah, metal case should conduct that

⏹️ ▶️ John heat away better, but I’m not sure, you know, people get that. It’s like, oh, this case

⏹️ ▶️ John makes my phone so hot. No, if you’re feeling the heat, that means it’s leaving your phone. If you don’t feel

⏹️ ▶️ John any heat, that means that the heat that your phone is making is trapped next to your phone. So your phone is

⏹️ ▶️ John getting hot if your hand is not. It’s a trade-off.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, we were talking during the rumor show about how they were allegedly shrinking the dimensions a little bit,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like very tiny amounts in each dimension. I actually kind of noticed that. It’s not a huge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difference, but it is noticeable. So the combination of the rounded off edges,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the slight dimensional shrink, and the substantially lighter weight,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this really feels good. I would say this might be the best feeling iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve made maybe since the mini. And this feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better in some ways, worse than others, mostly because it’s bigger. But this is a very, very good design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my opinion so far. Again, I’ve had it for like two seconds, so it’s hard to know long-term. You know, I don’t have any opinions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like the cameras and stuff yet, because it’s just too soon to know. But so far,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am very happy with this. And, you know, hearing everyone’s reviews of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how great the Max 5X camera is, and I’m sure I want to hear from Casey a lot about this in a minute.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But, you know, I was a little bit tempted. Maybe I should go Max this year, you know, as many of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us have been. And I’m actually glad I didn’t, for two reasons. Number one,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I saw the rumor today that the iPhone 16 series is gonna get slightly larger again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like by, you know, 0.2 inches for each one. And so I’m like, all right, I don’t wanna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get used to the big size now and then it gets even bigger next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But then also like, I am loving that they just made this nice advance in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting it lighter weight getting it a little bit nicer to hold in the hand. I wanna actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use that and benefit from those savings rather than immediately spending them by getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the next size up phone, you know? Like I’ve been asking for this for years,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the phones lighter, make the medium phone is a little bit too big and way too heavy, like make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it lighter, make it a little bit smaller. They actually just did that and it feels great and it looks great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I’m happy to stick with and enjoy the smaller size and actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, really benefit from these savings.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So for me, I did the unthinkable. And as discussed last

⏹️ ▶️ Casey week, I ordered a 15 Pro Max. I bought it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the good gray, the natural titanium in 512 gigabytes. And in short,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really uncomfortable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really not too comfortable with the fact that I kind of really like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it. Have you broken it yet? Not yet, not yet. Okay, good,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is better than, I think it was my 12, my 12 Pro, if memory serves, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was a podcast, I’ve told this story many times, but it was Podcastathon day, we had been to a local fair, Aaron’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey car was just utterly obliterated with dirt and whatnot, and so I decided to wash it real quick, but I wanted to listen in to Podcastathon,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my AirPods weren’t working for some reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco This was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when the windshield was still intact, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This was when the windshield was still intact.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Was your laptop dry?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, both of our laptops were dry, but then in the process of washing the car, I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to go and do like a quick Carl version and I jumped up with my phone that was in my back pocket

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of my shorts, my brand new phone that I had had for literally six hours at this point, and it fell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of my shorts onto the cement and shattered the back of it. Thankfully I did have AppleCare and, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, because especially at that point, it was like a $600 repair or whatever if I didn’t have AppleCare. But anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve lasted for several days now. So I’m already, I’ve already beaten my record in a good sense, but yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I got this 15 Pro Max. I have always hated the big phones. I always thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were ridiculously oversized, ridiculously heavy, and just ridiculous in every measure. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey made incessant amounts of fun of Mike Hurley and the Big Phone Boys over at Connected,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which for a lot of the run of Connected was all of them. And yet here I am,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hat in hand, saying, I would like to eat some crow, please.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fricking like this phone. I really do. The weight difference

⏹️ ▶️ Casey between the 14 Pro and the 15 Pro Max.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I put it on our very unscientific kitchen scale because I was curious what our very unscientific

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kitchen scale said. And I know I could look up the numbers, but I wanted to see, you know, what does this thing say?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was gonna say, Apple tells you right in the page. I have it right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey here. No, no, no, I know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know. But I wanted to test it locally. I wanted to see what that thing said. Because I swear to you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they feel like they’re either the same weight or maybe the 14 Pro might even be heavier.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is not, it is unequivocally not. Based on our kitchen scale, and I wish I had looked, I didn’t have the chance

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to look and see what the official rate numbers are. But according to the kitchen scale, the 14 Pro, 208 grams, 15 Pro Max, 221 grams.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I swear to you, it feels almost lighter, which maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been incepted by everyone telling me this from the hands-on area, and maybe I’m lying to myself,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it certainly does not feel like the boat anchor that the 14 Pro Max felt like. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amazing. It’s because of the

⏹️ ▶️ John size. I mean, it’s like the same reason it’s so impressive. You got like a tiny little one centimeter by one centimeter cube of tungsten

⏹️ ▶️ John and you got like a block of aluminum that weighs twice as much, but is way bigger. Like the tungsten thing feels

⏹️ ▶️ John impressively heavy, you know, cause it’s smaller, right? So that’s what you’re getting. If they were both the same size,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’d be able to tell the size difference, the weight difference, that’s the word I want.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco But because

⏹️ ▶️ John you expect the much bigger phone to be much, much heavier, and it’s only a little bit heavier. Yeah, that makes

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sense. I did

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco feel the

⏹️ ▶️ John same thing with Tina’s phone, that like, I do feel the weight difference. I

⏹️ ▶️ John still contend that it is mostly the absolute weight difference, and not the fact that the weight has been removed from the perimeter

⏹️ ▶️ John that is a big deal. But you can definitely feel it. In a blind test, I could

⏹️ ▶️ John definitely tell the 14 Pro with no case from the 15 Pro with no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case. By the way, I ran the numbers on Apple’s site, and the 15 Pro Max is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less dense than the 14 Pro. In terms of like grams per cubic meter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is less dense.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, of course

⏹️ ▶️ John it is, because that’s what you’re feeling. Like it’s like when you get something that seems

⏹️ ▶️ John heavy for its size, the 14 Pro seems heavy for its size and the 15 Pro Max seems light for its size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s less dense. Yeah, exactly. So I’m curious, Casey, really, like how are you, so it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I’ve had the 14 Plus as a test phone all summer when I was developing the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app against it and everything. And I’m wondering, because every time I pick up the 14 Plus, I would always think to myself,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe I should try carrying this around for a week or so and get used to the size and see if I like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Because the 14 Plus is even lighter than the 15 Pro Max. And so I thought, maybe I should try, see if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like the big phone. And I would put it in my pocket and walk around for a couple hours and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would hate it. I would only last at most a couple hours. Like, I can’t, I can’t, it’s too big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my pocket, too big in my hand. I was just never able to get used to that size, at least in those short

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trial runs. Have you, how have you found, like going from medium to big, like how,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are you used to it? Did you get used to it quickly? So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s several different things I wanna talk about. I’m not sure which one is the right one to do first, but I guess let’s start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with in pocket. I wear guy clothes. They’re generally somewhat loose fitting, possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and partially because I’m unfashionable, but nevertheless, I’m not in a situation where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I felt like the in-pocket feel was a problem. You know, it’s definitely bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for sure, but it’s not a night or day issue. What pocket are you putting the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone in? Right front pocket, as I have for many, many, many years.

⏹️ ▶️ John See, this is something I hadn’t really thought about, I don’t know why, but until this year. Not because I got a new phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John but because I’m transitioning from shorts weather to pants weather again, as the seasons finally start to change here.

⏹️ ▶️ John And one of the things I miss about shorts weather is when I wear my shorts, I put my phone in my right front

⏹️ ▶️ John pocket, right? But when I wear jeans, I find even with just a plain old 14 Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John that my right front pocket is a little constricting. Like I feel

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone there more when I sit down, I feel like I might be like putting pressure on the phone. So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John amazed that you can put a Pro Max in your right front pocket. Are you talking about jeans pockets or you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John just wearing sweatpants everywhere?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, well, sweatpants when I’m in the house and shorts when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m out of the house. Today was the first day here in Richmond that I think I could have done

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jeans and been okay. Up until today, it has been warm enough. All

⏹️ ▶️ John right, well, so you haven’t done the Pro Max jeans test yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Correct, that is correct. And you know how I thought about it? I would have run around today with jeans on, I didn’t even think twice about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. But yeah, so the weight, not a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The in-hand feel, it’s not a problem,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s different for sure. Now, I’m having a bit of a life crisis

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here. I need you to be gentle in this very challenging time for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did

⏹️ ▶️ John you get a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kickstand for your phone? Kind of.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh no, did you get a pop socket?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey He did, he said he was getting a pop socket.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I got a pop socket and for a day or two I thought, I’m just gonna return this pop socket because what kind of idiot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uses a pop socket.

⏹️ ▶️ John And how, yeah, it’s got to be really flat collapsible if you want to get that into the front right jeans pocket of a Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John Max with a collapsible pop socket on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t, I don’t know the depth of a honest to goodness pop socket, but it’s not tremendous. It’s a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the, it’s a little bit above the camera Mesa, but not obnoxiously so. You would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John actually.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s one of the benefits of the giant camera Mesa is that it makes the pop socket look slimmer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. But I did, after a day or two, I caved and opened the pop socket. I think I kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it. I feel really gross about it because I was so anti PopSocket and I think I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of like it. And so that’s the thing. So to more directly answer your question, Marco, generally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking, I don’t think it’s bad. I think it’s a little tough as a one-handed phone. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am not in love with the Pro Max as a one-handed phone. So you kind of have to embrace that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either need to dual hand, you know, yield, wield, excuse me, wield the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or you need to have some sort of affordance, be it a strap like we talked about earlier or Popsocket or what have you, in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey order to single hand it. Because I really feel like my prior strategy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the load-bearing pinky basically renders the top half of the phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unreachable. Now granted, there is reachability, so you can swipe down on the home indicator and you can bring that down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to within reach, but I don’t love that. And so for now, I’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using the official, it’s a real honest to goodness Popsocket, the circular one, not the pill-shaped one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m not in love with the pop socket, but I feel like it is extremely nice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have it so that that can increase my range. And I no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey longer feel like I need the load bearing pinky. The thing that bothers me the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey though, is that I can barely reach the, I typically use the phone in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my right hand. I can barely reach the left-hand corner of the screen, like the bottom left-hand corner of the screen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with one hand. And that is sometimes annoying. So like in the mail app, you know, if you’re looking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at a piece of mail and you would like to archive it or delete it, you need to go to the bottom left corner. Doing that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one handed is tough and that’s frustrating. But all in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all, I think I like it. And I think especially once you consider the camera, but even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey without the camera, I think the juice might be worth the squeeze at this point. Now that the bezels have been brought in some,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the weight is way down from the, from where it was. All in all, I think I’m into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. sitting here now, I have absolutely no desire to return it. That being said, the one place where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this falls down real bad for me is the action button. I love the idea of the action button,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it is so freaking far away from my hand that it’s almost not even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there. At least when I’m single-handing it. You should try being a left-handed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone person. It would be right under your thumb.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You make a very good point. That is something I should probably at least investigate. You’re just trying to get her to drop that phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, right. uses his less

⏹️ ▶️ John coordinated hand to carry this giant thing. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, but you make a good point. And I have set the action button to camera. And I’m skipping ahead a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit. I want to talk about the transfer process very briefly. But I went out this afternoon and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey took a few pictures. Now, granted, it was miserable weather here this afternoon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I went out and took a few pictures, specifically because I thought you would probably want, you, both of you, would probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to see the differences between the 3x and the 5x. And so I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the world’s greatest photographer. In fact, I’m at best an okay amateur photographer. And I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of in a rush for uninteresting reasons. And so I didn’t do the best job of like framing these photos but I tried

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get representative of examples of photos with both the 14

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro and it’s 3X camera and the 15 Pro and Pro Max and the 5X camera,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I’ve realized I don’t think I labeled it always as a Pro Max in these images that I’m about to share, but that’s okay, you know what I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about. So I’m gonna quickly run through them, and if you have questions, I’m happy to field it. So I went to a park that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the Richmond area, and again, it was disgusting weather, so consider that when you look at the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fidelity of these pictures. It was actively raining a little bit, and so on and so forth. So the first thing I did was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I parked my car. I parked it obnoxiously, because nobody was at the park. I was only there for like five minutes. I don’t need to hear any feedback

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about my parking job. Also, I’m a former BMW driver, so this is how I learned how to park. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I parked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the car. BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would have been diagonal across the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey spot. That’s probably true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re merely perpendicular across

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey the spot. Right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly. I should have thought about the fact that I’m going to get a whole bunch of flack for this. But I assure you, I was one of three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cars in a parking lot that was hundreds of meters long. But anyways, the point is I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ran, and this was, I don’t know, 30, 40 feet away from my car, something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. And there’s a little knee-height brick wall between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the grass and a concrete area that I’m standing on. And I tried to frame the brick wall roughly equivalently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the bottom of the frame. And I took a shot with the 3x and the 5x, and there’s a big

⏹️ ▶️ Casey difference. Like, there is a heck of a difference there. And you can see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that plain as day in these two shots. So yeah, so there you can see quite a difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually was not the next one I took, but the next one I’ll talk about. I happened to be on my way out of this park and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey noticed a goose. This one I feel like is a little less dramatic. I was probably, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, 10 to 20 meters away from the goose, but I took a picture with both of the,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey both of the 14 Pro, 15 Pro Max with the 3X and 5X. Again, I mislabeled it, my apologies. But you can see here that the difference

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t that dramatic to me in the goose itself. But if you look at the amount of fencing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can see on either side of the goose, which will make sense if you’re looking at the photo, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quite a bit more in the 3X than the 5X. Less dramatic in this case, again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was a bit closer to the subject matter, but still a difference nevertheless.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So then I thought, all right, let’s take a look and let’s try all the quote unquote lenses. This image is freaking huge.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I took one with the, this was all in the 15 Pro Max. I took it with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 1.5X ultra wide, the main at 25, main at 28, main at 35, and then the 2X main and the 5X main.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so that’s 48 and 120 millimeters. Interestingly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I don’t think I did anything wrong or weird or anything like that. Maybe this is user

⏹️ ▶️ Casey error, but the ultra wide, the 2X and the 5X are all 30, 24 by 40, 32.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But the main camera, the three on the main camera, or the, I’m sorry, three of the four main cameras, the 1X, the 1.2 and the 1.5, the 25, 28, 35 millimeters,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were all bigger, 40 to 84 by 57, 12. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know if I did something wrong. I didn’t knowingly do anything

⏹️ ▶️ John differently. I’m sure the math isn’t that doing the 24 megapixel thing? Maybe?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I don’t know why the 2X wouldn’t also be 24, but maybe the 2X had to bin because this

⏹️ ▶️ John is what we talked about before. Like when you use the 2X thing, we were talking about the 14 Pro, so I don’t know what the 15 Pro does.

⏹️ ▶️ John But on the 14 Pro, when you do the 2X thing, where it takes a center crop of the main thing, it

⏹️ ▶️ John will try not to bin those pixels and use the actual native pixels. But of course, the whole reason

⏹️ ▶️ John they use binning is because if you use the native pixels all the time, they get a lot of noise and they’re not a lot of light gathering. So

⏹️ ▶️ John if there’s insufficient light, which there might not have been sufficient light on this kind of overcast day,

⏹️ ▶️ John then it might be binning them and that’s why you’re getting that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s a good call. Yeah, I’m not sure, but this is what I got out of the camera. And so anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t have a whole bunch to say about this other than to say, you can see a truly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dramatic amount of range between the ultra wide and the 5X. Like it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a humongous difference, which I think is pretty cool. And so far in my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey basic usage, and I’m not gonna share these photos, but in quick usage that I’ve had, I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really enjoyed the 5X. I think it might’ve been Mike that said having the 3X as well would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be nice, like if there was a quad lens or quad physical camera system. But I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think I am here for the 5X. And I was at swim lessons with Michaela, I think yesterday,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s an indoor pool, and the parents sit on one side of glass and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pool area and the kids are on the other side. And I would occasionally take pictures of her

⏹️ ▶️ Casey while she’s doing swim lessons with the 3X. And even though I’m not, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m 10, 20 yards away from where the action is happening, it always felt like it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey far away even when using the 3X, but I took a picture with the 5X and it was like we were right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there. And so for me, I think I made the right choice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so far. Again, this is just like Marco said, We’ve barely had these phones, but for a few days at this point, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so far I’m really happy with the choice and I think it’s worked out pretty well. I have a couple other things to say, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any questions or thoughts about the camera before I move on?

⏹️ ▶️ John Tyler in the chat said that the 2X photo you put is perfectly 12 megapixels. Is that what you’re saying, Tyler?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if that’s the correct interpretation. Yeah, so that means it didn’t bin and it is doing the center crop 12

⏹️ ▶️ John megapixel, but then it is not doing the thing that the 15 and 15 Pro are capable of doing, which is combining the 48

⏹️ ▶️ John and the 12 to make a 24.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And again, I can’t stress enough, super overcast day, actively raining

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the time. Like this was not the right time to do this experiment, but this was the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only time, it’s been raining all weekend and this was the only time I had before we recorded tonight. So I did what I could with what I got.

⏹️ ▶️ John One thing I would suggest for the 5X camera, I know people are like, oh, this is gonna give me reach so I can see my kid

⏹️ ▶️ John at swim lessons better. And that makes perfect sense. But the other thing I would suggest, perhaps trying, I don’t know how this is

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna work out with the 5X camera. You can find out and tell me. 120 millimeters is actually

⏹️ ▶️ John a popular fairly close to some fairly popular portrait lens ranges.

⏹️ ▶️ John And in general, if you take a portrait photo of somebody with kind of a wide angle lens,

⏹️ ▶️ John they tend to look not great, which is why portraits

⏹️ ▶️ John tend to use a little bit, you know, higher focal range lens.

⏹️ ▶️ John And people people are very confused about this online because they think like it’s the lens itself that distorts the people’s

⏹️ ▶️ John faces or whatever. That’s not actually the case. What distorts people’s faces

⏹️ ▶️ John is being real close to them. If you’re real close to them, the view you have of their face

⏹️ ▶️ John is going to be different than if you’re real far away. You can figure this out with geometry and math and lines. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you basically, you end up, you can see more of the sides of their face when you’re farther away than

⏹️ ▶️ John you can if you’re up close. If you think of it being like an inch away from their face, you’re not even gonna be able to see their ears anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, but if you go far,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco far

⏹️ ▶️ John away, yeah, you can see both their ears, look at that. And how that’s related to the

⏹️ ▶️ John focal length of the lens is to get a person’s face in the 5X lens,

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to stand farther away. Because if you’re two inches away from them, you’re just gonna get their nose, right? So you’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, oh, I wanna shoot you with the 5X lens, what will you do? You’ll back up because you wanna get their

⏹️ ▶️ John entire head in the frame. And when you back up, you’re moving farther away from them. All this is to

⏹️ ▶️ John say, the only thing that changes how a person’s face looks in a camera

⏹️ ▶️ John sensor, in a camera view, is how far away you are from them. That is the only thing that will change your perspective.

⏹️ ▶️ John No amount of lens stuff will change your perspective. No zoom lens, no wide angle lens or whatever. The

⏹️ ▶️ John only thing that changes how much of the person’s ears you can see is how far away you are from them.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which is why when you take a longer focal length, like 120 millimeters, and you do a portrait, you will have to move

⏹️ ▶️ John farther away to get the person framed And those type of things tend to be more flattering.

⏹️ ▶️ John It will, I don’t know if that’s the right expression, it’s flatten out your face, it will make your nose look less big, it will

⏹️ ▶️ John make you look less like you’re in a funhouse mirror. That’s why when people get their portraits taken

⏹️ ▶️ John for the cover of a magazine and it’s like a headshot, that is not taken with a 11 millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ John lens. It’s like an 85, right? Or 110 or 120 and the person is farther away because it’s more flattering.

⏹️ ▶️ John So try that with the 5X because I think a lot of phone pictures people take, like whether

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a selfie camera or just a 1X, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John the most flattering to your face shape. That’s a lot of the reason why when I use my quote-unquote big camera,

⏹️ ▶️ John they have better looking pictures of people. It’s simply because I’m using, even if something is

⏹️ ▶️ John like a 50 millimeter or an 85, and I have to be farther away, you’ll look better.

⏹️ ▶️ John So try that, try taking some pictures of your wife and your kids with the 5X lens, essentially as a portrait

⏹️ ▶️ John lens, rather than the, oh, I want to zoom in and catch my kid on the stage.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also, I mean, first of all, I would say one of my favorite lenses I’ve ever shot with, it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 135 prime. And so this, you know, a 120 is very close to that. And if you haven’t ever shot with a 135 prime,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s difficult to use in a practical situation because it’s a 135 prime,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I would strongly encourage you, if you’re a photographer, rent one sometime. It’s a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun. Like it’s you get some amazing pictures out of it. You know, also one of the major differences with using a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco longer lens is it is easier and better looking to get background

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blur. So if you want your subject to be in focus and you want the background to be blurred, really like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco optically, not through AI algorithms and stuff. If you want the actual optical background blur,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is not only much easier to get in a more severe way with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco longer lenses, but it tends to look more pleasing when you do get it compared to what’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco possible on less narrow lenses. And when you’re dealing with something optically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like an iPhone, where you don’t really have the apertures and sensor size needed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get real good optical background blur in most cases, using the longer lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is often easier. If you use a long lenses somewhat close to you, like as close as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can reasonably focus and frame your subject, you can usually get some pretty good background blur without using any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tricks at all.

⏹️ ▶️ John Take a look, I just put it on our Slack. I occasionally do this. If you work really, really

⏹️ ▶️ John hard and find the few scenarios where this works, you can get legit background blur from an

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey camera. Oh yeah, absolutely. But the

⏹️ ▶️ John scenarios in which you can do that are slim. So take a look on our Slack. Here’s me as I caption this on Glass,

⏹️ ▶️ John working real hard to get that legit iPhone background blur. I mean, and it’s not pretty.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if you look at this, people don’t see this picture, it’s a closeup of a flower. I’m like an inch

⏹️ ▶️ John away from this flower, okay? With the sun behind it. And being an inch away from the flower

⏹️ ▶️ John and the flower being in focus actually does give you a little bit of background blur, but that is not pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John background blur. I know this sounds

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco dumb.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like background blur is background blur, but in the realm of people testing cameras and lenses,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s whole sections of every lens review that we’ll talk about. How nice is the bokeh? How nice

⏹️ ▶️ John are the bokeh balls, as they call them? Do they look smooth and creamy, or do they look like onion

⏹️ ▶️ John rings, or are they busy or noisy? Are they perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco round or do you see the blades?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly. And sometimes you want a little bit, but yeah. So the Bokeh

⏹️ ▶️ John balls in this iPhone 14 Pro are not good, but they’re there.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s legit camera blur. No portrait mode for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I would take that any day over portrait mode. Like even, I haven’t tried the new portrait mode yet, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve seen the samples that people have posted and they look significantly better than old portrait mode to my eyes, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they still don’t look quite real. I would take real but bad background

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blur every day over portrait mode if I had that option. And so anyway, I would love, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was an option and maybe in the future it will be based on shaky rumors right now, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would love a future in which that 5X lens comes to the medium sized phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I have. I’m not willing to jump to the big phone for that alone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I am envious of it and I wish I could get it on my size. So I look forward to the future

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in which that might be possible.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, and I’m glad we brought up Boca because I completely forgot there’s one other thing I wanted to say about the phone, or the camera,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excuse me. So I took a screen recording and I needed someone to upload it. So I uploaded it to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey YouTube unlisted and then it became a YouTube short, possibly because it’s vertically oriented,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. But suffice to say, what I did was I was standing against the side of a train car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This, this particular park I was at has, you know, a handful of train cars at any part parked at it, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I use the telephoto lens to take a shot of a far away, other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey train car, the train car I was against is like a black color. The one I was taking a shot of was, is blue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and white. And it did the thing where it offered me the automatic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey portrait mode, you know, it shows a little aperture F or whatever it is, you know, at the bottom left hand corner of the photo.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I tapped it and I took the picture. And then the video is me going in after the fact and editing it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this is where you can decide, you know, the virtual aperture, you can decide what’s in focus and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so on and so forth. And I will be the first to tell you that even as an amateur

⏹️ ▶️ Casey photographer, some of this like fake bokeh and, you know, fake blur, it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey look stellar. I’m not going to sit here and try to tell you that this is better than a big camera, that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey natural and so on and so forth. I’m sure Joe Steele will have all sorts of problems with this, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey taking off the cranky amateur photographer hat and putting on the just general user hat.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This blew my damn mind. I am tapping around on this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey image, focusing different pieces of the image, some of which are 30 yards away from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me and some of which are 30 inches away from me, and it doesn’t always look stellar,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it always, to my eyes, looks at least least passable. And you too might take issue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that and I wouldn’t really argue with you. But the fact that you can do this is so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey freaking cool and that you can do it after the fact. I don’t need to worry about getting the shot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly right in the heat of the moment as long as I see that the little F symbol

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the circle with the F in the middle, as long as that’s on when I take the shot,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know I have at least a snowball’s chance in hell of getting this right in post, even if I didn’t get it right when I took the photo.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is so cool. I genuinely don’t remember if this came via software to the 14

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or not, but this alone might’ve been worth the price of admission for the 15 Pro because this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so fricking cool. I am, my mind is blown by this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’ve been a lot of features for the iPhone camera over the years that like, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plan ahead and if you set up the shot and if you know, or if your subject is very patient and they’re like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just hold on, let me get one in portrait mode. Let me use cinematic video. There’s all these features that they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco added over the years that like, if you wanted a certain advantage, you had to like go turn it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on and deal with it from the start, plan ahead, engage that mode, possibly at the expense

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of other benefits from the other modes that you were then disabling by using that mode. Like maybe you didn’t get live voters,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe you didn’t get the right resolution or whatever. To have something like this,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where it takes away nothing, like you don’t have to plan for it. It doesn’t cost you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything, except some trivial probably amount of storage space. it doesn’t matter for the depth data, to just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have that be there for you. To me, it’s like when they added live photos. Live photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had that same thing where they’re really, besides a trivial storage cost to them, there really was not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much downside to having live photos enabled. So all of your photos would just have this little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of bonus available to them with no sweat off your back, whatever the expression is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, I never know. But anyway, so this is that now. You don’t have to plan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for portrait mode. You don’t have to set everything up and get everything right the first time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or have your subject, hold still, let me get one in portrait. No, none of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You just have it and you can deal with it later. That’s how you get more great shots because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you don’t have to hesitate, you don’t have to set it up. You just take

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the shot, you just fire and that’s it. And afterwards you can say, ooh, if I tweak this like this, it’s even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better. That’s true, like Apple iPhone camera magic. I love when they do stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And again, if I put on my Corrugian hat, which is the hat I normally have on,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can take issue with so many things in this little video, but that’s not the point.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The point is this camera is always with me. It is unusual, and maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is a problem, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John unusual

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for my phone to be more than a few feet away from me, ever. And so this camera

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is with me always. And if I can do this sort of magic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with this camera, I mean, it’s blowing my mind. I’m watching this thing on repeat

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s every time I see it, I’m the one who took the video and it’s still blowing my mind. And not only can you adjust what’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in focus, but you can adjust how much focus or how much blur or no blur, and you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey turn the blur totally off. And then you’ve got what appears to be a reasonably good photo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from, of course, there’s a tremendous amount of depth to it, but nevertheless, it’s a pretty decent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo that I took with 120 millimeter lens. Like this is so cool to me. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this alone is worth the 15 Pro or 15 Pro Max, you know, pick your poison, it doesn’t matter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is so cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and what Marco was saying about features that you get in post-processing that you don’t have to think about during,

⏹️ ▶️ John as much as I really dislike portrait mode, that philosophy, Apple should continue

⏹️ ▶️ John to pursue that because what I want, and it’s gonna take a while before they’re able to even do this technically, but eventually they will

⏹️ ▶️ John be, is I want them to implement essentially the workflow I do myself, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John shoot everything in both JPEG and RAW, but throw away the RAWs unless

⏹️ ▶️ John I favorite them. You know what I mean? Because it’s like, I don’t have to decide, is this because I have the same problem

⏹️ ▶️ John right now? Where it’s like, should I spend the 75 megabytes to shoot this thing in RAW, or should

⏹️ ▶️ John I just take the JPEG? And I end up just taking the JPEG because I don’t have the storage space and I don’t want everything to be set up, but you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to think, is this one of the ones I want to spend the RAW on? What if it just took everything in JPEG and RAW

⏹️ ▶️ John and then give me like 30 days and if I don’t heart it, chuck the RAW data in the garbage. Kind of like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John the live picture thing where if you, I think like if you deactivate the live photo

⏹️ ▶️ John thing or whatever, eventually it will chuck that sidecar, I think. At least that used to be the case. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I was wishing it kind of did the same thing with portrait, but it’s like, I don’t want to have to think about it in the moment. Just do all the things.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then later, there should be some way for me to say, do I want this to be portrait mode or do I not? And I’m never gonna want

⏹️ ▶️ John to do portrait mode so it’s useless, but raw or not raw, I can make that decision in post pretty easily.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which pictures actually came out? Which ones do I care about? And more likely, which ones like, oh, this JPEG

⏹️ ▶️ John came out really bad, it’s over-processed or the shadows are crushed or something like that, that’s the one where I’m gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna dig in there and say, actually, since you took raws for everything, let me see the raw for this one and see if I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John recover something. And even if I just recover something from the raw and then re-burn a JPEG and then still

⏹️ ▶️ John chuck out the raw, that’s what I want. You can’t do it now because storage space, Processing time the capture

⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s a million reasons why you can’t now but if phones keep getting faster and then you know If TSMC is three nanometer

⏹️ ▶️ John thing isn’t a sign of the end of Moore’s law coming sooner than we thought Eventually these

⏹️ ▶️ John phones should be able to shoot everything in JPEG plus raw and that’s what I do on my real cameras But then I have to manually

⏹️ ▶️ John like save the rods for the ones that I favorite That’s something that the phone could do automatically. So I’m looking forward to that in 10

⏹️ ▶️ John years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey indeed The transfer process. I wanted to quickly talk about that. I I did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a device to device transfer. Oh, actually I should have put this in follow up. So we talked last

⏹️ ▶️ Casey episode about how I was doing a finder based encrypted backup. And I did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the unthinkable and I left my phone in the office overnight rather than next to my head in my bedside table.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John How did

⏹️ ▶️ John you sleep?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually I had a really crummy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John night’s sleep.

⏹️ ▶️ John Knowing your best little buddy was so far away from you in another room in the same house.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well no, no, no, Aaron was next to me but my second

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John best little buddy was across

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the room. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John more importantly,

⏹️ ▶️ John Aaron’s phone in case you just needed that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey phone. Yeah, right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. But anyways, I left it overnight and it killed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, but I did it. And I woke up and the Finder backup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was not there. And Finder was like, what are you talking about? You never asked me to do a backup. Well, great. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you for that. So, that didn’t work. So, I did a device to device transfer. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey love that process. I love the results of the process because I had to log into almost

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing, Slack being the number one offender in this department because I had to log into my slacks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again. But almost everything else came across lickety split. Even my WireGuard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey VPN came across, which I didn’t expect in a million years that would work. But everything came

⏹️ ▶️ Casey across just fine for the most part, but it takes forever. I started the process and I had a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sheet of paper with this written down on it and somehow in the last hour I’ve thrown it somewhere. But nevertheless, off the top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of my head, I started it roughly not in the morning and it showed me something to the order of six hours left.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It quickly dropped to about two hours and it ended up that it finished sometime between 11.15 and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 11.30-ish. I went downstairs to do something for a little bit, and it was during

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that time that it finished. I will say that it hung on two minutes remaining for something like 20 minutes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Again, I had it written down somewhere, I don’t know what happened to it. But I don’t love that process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I don’t love that you can’t use either phone. I get it. I get why that is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I don’t love it. And I’m really, really hopeful that when I’m going from 15

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to 16, or 15 Pro to 16 Pro, when theoretically I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do a high-speed USB cable between the two of them, I really hope that this process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gets way freaking faster. Although, as we talked about in follow-up, I wonder if I should

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have done, if I should have put the 15 Pro on ethernet, if not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the device-to-device transfer, which I don’t think that would have mattered because I think that’s peer to peer, but at least for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the subsequent step where it’s downloading all the apps again from the app store and so on and so forth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I wish that was better and faster, but I’m really hopeful that next year it will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be. But we’ll see what happens. But so far, I really like this phone. I need to find,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I probably should find a case for it, but I’m just rocking the PopSocket and although

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m embarrassed about it because I feel like the PopSocket looks so ridiculous, but I think I’m in the minority

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in saying so because almost everyone uses one these days. I am slightly embarrassed by it, but I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this phone a lot. I really, really do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just own it, man. It’s cool. It’s, you can be, look, it is no longer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an unusual position to take to say that you like big phones. Like big phones have been here for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a long time now, and they offer some substantial advantages. You know, it’s all about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you’re prioritized. Like for many people, one-handed use, like while moving,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco walking the dog, trying to reach that bottom left button is not as important as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it being like your primary computer throughout the day, which it is for so many people. You know, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get a way bigger screen, you get way more battery life, you get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either tied for the best camera or a better camera than the other pro every single year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a lot of good reasons that that’s really attractive to people. And so it’s all about, you know, what’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco important to you? What are your needs? What trade-offs do you wanna make? and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s most important. Like in my life, I like to have that one-handed use. I use it all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. And meanwhile, when I’m browsing my phone in bed, I wish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had the bigger screen at that moment when it’s in my car mount, since my car doesn’t have freaking car play. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wish I had the bigger screen at that moment, but I’ve made the choice that the one-handed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use while walking is the more frequent need for me, and so that’s what I’m gonna prioritize. But I’m very close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to that dividing line where like, yeah, actually, I can see myself maybe down the road as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different things in my life shift around and change, maybe I would like the bigger screen phone then. Like it’s not so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of the question. I mean, you know, here I am sitting in my SUV that, you know, three years ago, five years ago,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hated SUVs and I never thought I would ever buy one, let alone enjoy it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here I am loving the thing. So look, it happens. Like, you know, our positions change over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time and our needs and preferences and priorities change over time. And that’s fine. Liking the big phones now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not only nothing to be ashamed of, but surprisingly mainstream.

⏹️ ▶️ John He likes big phones and he cannot lie.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my God. Thanks to our sponsor this week, Clean Email, and thanks to our members who support

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us directly. You can join us at atb.fm slash join, And we will talk to you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now

⏹️ ▶️ John the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, oh it was accidental John

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can

⏹️ ▶️ John find the show notes at atp.fm And if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John into Twitter, you can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and T. Marco Harmon,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, tech podcasts, so long.

Amazon is fast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One of the unexpected benefits of being in America again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, wow, Amazon’s fast when you aren’t on an island. I have been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco living at the beach for three, four years full-time. You know, there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is no door-to-door mail service. There is no access for FedEx and UPS. So stuff has to get like sent over on a ferry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the next day. And you go pick it up with your wagon. It’s a whole thing, which I find very charming. And I love it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The downside is that Amazon stuff takes up to a week to get there. It depends on how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s sent and how it goes, but you’re looking at up to a week. Um, whereas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last night I had packed everything from the beach to do the show, I thought.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had everything set up and I realized last night, Oh, wait a minute.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My mic stand that I brought is going to be really annoying to use in the car. Because it was just one of those little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco table top tripod looking ones. I’m like there’s no there’s no where to really put that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Would that i can like lean up against it without like bending my neck the whole show let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let me see what amazon options exist. Last night in bed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i ordered a mic stand that got delivered at four pm

⏹️ ▶️ Marco today. For free. Like, yep, yep, yep. And I know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is something like, yeah, everyone else in America is like, yeah, we’ve had that. That’s not new.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s not even like the, you know, the city people have like same day practically, or like within, you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know that? Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s what this was. It was same day. It was just, you know, I was ordering it at 10 p.m. and it got here the next day. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you know what I’m talking about. The ones, the ones they have like in limited city things that are really close to the thing, you can order it and get it

⏹️ ▶️ John a couple hours later. I’ve never experienced that, but it sounds really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I placed like four orders today for just random crap I’m like, I could go to the store for that, but why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco waste the trip? Why take the time to drive to the store?

⏹️ ▶️ John I can tell you one reason why, though, by the way, and you’re asking about the Netgear thing that was $1,000 on Amazon. You gotta be careful,

⏹️ ▶️ John because occasionally you’ll wanna buy some incidental item, and you won’t notice that Amazon,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, Amazon has it, but it’s two to three times the price it is in the regular store. Even for

⏹️ ▶️ John something simple like, oh, a Duracell battery or something, you’re like, is that how much Duracell batteries, how much could a battery

⏹️ ▶️ John cost? $10, right? If you don’t look too closely, and it’s like, basically

⏹️ ▶️ John what it’s saying is, Amazon doesn’t really carry this. There is a seller who carries it, who’s selling it

⏹️ ▶️ John through Amazon at a massive markup. So be careful about like, oh, I just

⏹️ ▶️ John want something in a hurry. Let me just order it on Amazon. And you’re like, wait a second. If I just walk to the grocery store,

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing is a third of, literally a third of the price. So be careful about that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, that’s fair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are certain things obviously that are much better to get locally. Like, you know, like, you know, because I get, because we’re in this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apartment temporarily, I’ve I’ve taken a couple trips around to just get some little quality life improvement issues like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a shower caddy a paper towel holder That kind of stuff and a lot of that stuff is like this stuff is so Basic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and cheap and any grocery store would have this so I’ll just get it when I’m at the grocery store getting groceries

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, you know that kind of stuff. That’s that’s simple But you know more specialized stuff like oh, you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My life would be a lot better here if I had like one of my good nail clippers and so and like, you know That’s I’m never gonna find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that in the grocery store or in a local store without driving around a bunch It’s like, all right, that kind of stuff, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get that shipped in the Amazon Day delivery, and it’s no big deal. And man,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having like modern Amazon is, look, I know they do some shady stuff. I know they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great company in all ways by a long shot, but as a customer, my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God, it’s amazing. And I know everyone else discovered this a million years ago, but I’m just rediscovering this now. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like Christmas morning every day, like, oh wait, I can just get that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John tomorrow morning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll just show up like I don’t have to wait a week. Wow. 2023 man.

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