Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

486: Field Day at Apple Park

WWDC 2022: new building, new format, new OSes, new APIs, new hardware, and new pastries!

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Intro
  2. Developer Center
  3. The in-person experience
  4. Sponsor: Memberful
  5. iOS
  6. Sponsor: Trade Coffee
  7. Family features
  8. Home
  9. Sponsor: Kolide
  10. CarPlay
  11. Tidbits
  12. watchOS
  13. M2
  14. MacBook Air
  15. 13” MacBook Pro
  16. macOS Ventura
  17. iPadOS
  18. Ending theme
  19. Food


⏹️ ▶️ Marco I packed totally wrong for this trip.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, tell me more. This is our pre-show then. I’m already interested.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going on?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So first of all, hi everyone. I’m in California on vacation. Not really. Always on vacation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey in California.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah. So I’m in California. Apple summoned a few of us out at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the last minute last week. And so we made the pilgrimage to this wonderful event. And frankly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m pretty impressed by the event, which we’ll get to in a little bit. But anyway, I didn’t bring the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bell or the Viber slab or my computer’s hat. What are you even doing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know it’s been wrong. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so long since I’ve traveled to this conference. I forgot how to do it. I’m so sad. Yeah, and I had to borrow an Ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cable from underscore.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, he had it in his pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, of course. He pulled it. He had a special pocket in his jacket just for Ethernet cables.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You joke, but that is possible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did he

⏹️ ▶️ John have a did he have a bell? Did you ask? I should have. I don’t care about the VibroSlap.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, so we just can’t talk about network attack storage or certain file storage mechanisms.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John I looked at the sessions, and I did a search for file, and I did a search for time, and I was very disappointed.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m so

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I noticed you avoided the acronym. Very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well done, John. I’m trying to make it not have to use the bell. Thank you. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know if that’ll last for the whole podcast, but I’ll do what I can.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We have a professional discipline going on here. This is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you know. And if

⏹️ ▶️ John I mess up, you have to make the noise with your mouth, Marko.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So be prepared for that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Your punishment for forgetting the bill. I do want to add though, if people are feeling bad for me

⏹️ ▶️ John and Casey, that we were also both invited by Apple, but had to decline

⏹️ ▶️ John for various reasons. So don’t feel like just they love Marco and they don’t love us. They love

⏹️ ▶️ John us all almost equally. Almost equally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or at least they tolerate us all almost equally. I mean, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s probably more accurate. Now, we each got a call from Apple PR,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it was the most, well, it’s not that I’m being hyperbolic, but it was extremely heartbreaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to say to Apple after I got this call that, all kidding aside, not to turn this into analog, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been waiting for this call for years to be recognized as someone who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talks about Apple and Apple maybe should occasionally remember exists. I was gonna say pay attention to, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t even do that. Just remember that I exist from time to time. And I got this phone call,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it was like, oh my gosh, I finally arrived, and I can’t come. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was both amazing and devastating, and it was the most roller coaster of a 10-minute phone call I’ve had in a long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time. But yes, John and I were offered, and like John said, we couldn’t make it for various

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uninteresting reasons. But nevertheless, our field reporter, Mr. Marco Arment, is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the show. Our West Coast correspondent. Our West Coast correspondent. I like that even more.

⏹️ ▶️ John There you go.

Developer Center

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, as our official West Coast correspondent, Marco, could you please give us an update on the goings

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on at WWDC?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s really quite good. So you know, before we get into the keynote, just a quick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overview of what the event actually is like how it actually went. And I’ll don’t worry, we’ll save the food for later,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we will get to the food. But seeing it, first of all, this event is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of the grand opening of the developer center, which is the building we’ve been talking about. It’s kind of across the street from Apple Park next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the visitor center. And it is, no expense has been spared,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no detail has been overlooked.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, there was the crooked E in the LCAP.

⏹️ ▶️ John One detail was overlooked, but it was fixed by the developer of Halide, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, I believe so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, was LCAP a buggy release? Were they trying to maybe suggest something? I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John forget. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know. Leopard was perfectly straight, and that was not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I didn’t see a lion room. I think somebody duplicated it and then lost it. So anyway, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco general building, the developer center, is clearly set up for lots of these,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think largely still theoretical meetings, but that in the future will become much more real of like they summon you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out there because you have a great new app that uses, say, CarPlay, and they wanna bring you out there to teach you how to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco CarPlay better, or something like that. It seems like the kind of thing that is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you wait for them to call you, you don’t call them, maybe? But maybe you could reach out through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco DevRelations if you had some reason to come be there. It seems like it’s a combination of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a tech talk and a lab kind of space where you can bring your app to them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they can instruct you on some new API that they’re making. Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re one of the developers that’s selected to do a keynote appearance for your app or a keynote

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mention of your app, like, hey, so-and-so uses this new API and they did the whole conversion in two days. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a place they can bring you to show you pre-release stuff, or for you to show them your pre-release

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. There’s all these different rooms that have all these different roles,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s pretty great. And there’s a lot that we can complain about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with Apple and politics, and we do. Whenever that comes up, we very much do. And that’s, I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco largely a different and much smaller part of the company that makes those kind of decisions.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When you deal with the developer relations people, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem like they’re really just extremely genuinely friendly and happy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to help us. It is kind of, you know, you do have to kind of set aside all the political and App Store, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco policy stuff in order to fully enjoy it. But I’ll tell you when you’re in person, you do fully enjoy it and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do put that aside. Because, you know, clearly the developer relations team really is super into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their job. It seems like it’s possibly one of the more fun jobs at Apple, if I had to guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It seems like they really are super into like just being helpful and actually, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they call themselves evangelists and for a lot of the positions. And I think that’s a decent word to describe what they do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so this – the whole building really kind of – it really exuded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that quality of just like they love their jobs. They want to create fun stuff for us. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to help us out and none of the BS about the policy stuff really enters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the discussion in that building. building. And that’s good. You know, it’s first of all, that isn’t their job. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco second of all, it’s nice to have a reprieve from that and to just be able to enjoy this as a developer, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, as an engineer and not worry about all that, all the, you know, weird politics stuff. So it was actually really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think time will tell how this building gets used in the future. How, you know, how easy is it if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to come to, you know, one of these labs in this building, or if you want help that would require coming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out Like, how easy is that to do? Do you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wait for them to ask you? Do you have to wait months to get in there? How does that work? How does this scale?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do they end up building more of these? I think those are all open questions right now. They already have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some similar kinds of buildings in India and China. And then there’s also these accelerators in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different places that are, that’s a slightly different concept. But yeah, so it’s interesting to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how this expands in the future and how it’s used in the future. But so far, it’s pretty great.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s awesome. And so that was the Developer Center. But you got a tour of that, what, yesterday as we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey record this on Sunday? It was this morning. Oh, it was this morning. Oh, OK.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I wasn’t there early enough for yesterday, so I took it this morning. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah, overall it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great.

The in-person experience

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Great. And then, and so for the event today, just some basics of how this worked. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco um, I, my, my experience was a little bit different than the developer experience. I had the media

⏹️ ▶️ Marco badge and so we had like a slightly different track, but it was overall a lot of overlap. So, you know, we,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we check in and, um, we were led right into Apple park, like right into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the main campus. And they let us all for like the pre keynote waiting area,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right into cafe max, like the, the place where the giant doors open up and like in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ring and and like you basically have the giant employee cafeteria there. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the developers were on like the main floor, the media was on this like little like upper deck area. We were able to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see, we weren’t able to go into the middle of the ring, but we were able to see the middle and take pictures of it like through the glass and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we saw the giant rainbow stage and you know the beautiful mountain backdrop behind it. I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a beautiful place. Like I think one of the reasons why they might have chosen to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this event here is in part to kind of show it off and in part to just kind of wow us because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is, you know, being actually in the ring building is something, you know, we talked about in the past, like it didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem like they were ever going to let random members from the public into that. And so it was really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great just being let in. Like it felt like a special thing. It felt like we were like being shown the secrets by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just being in this campus. And certainly there’s a lot of probably recruiting value to that, I would say.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like amping up developers. There’s a lot of value that they have in energizing us to really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel good about Apple, to really feel good about their platforms, to inspire and energize developers to make new stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s harder and harder to come by as the company gets bigger, as the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco platforms get more mature and older and therefore less exciting in certain ways. Again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as app store policy stuff crushes certain people’s spirits or bad experiences along the way could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really affect that. And so it’s harder and harder to come by things that energize and motivate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco developers for established platforms from giant corporations. It’s very hard to motivate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us like that. And this does that. This really very much does that. Being able to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come to this event in this special place and see this special building and be let in. And I understand now why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they built this ridiculous thing. Because that also energizes all their employees and inspires them and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gives people something to aspire to. not every employee is even working in this building, but you can at least like, you know, aspire to maybe someday be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in one of the departments that works there. Like, so there’s a lot of value to this and to see it as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an outsider, as a non-employee, even though it was obviously very tightly controlled, we’re not like wandering the halls or anything,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but just to be there and to see that was really quite nice. And then the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actual keynote watching was not on the rainbow stage. It was, it kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used Cafe Max as like the back seating area and then expanded outwards through those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco open doors with, you know, probably about a thousand seats, maybe two thousand seats, something like that, all straight up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then there was a giant stage like kind of outside the ring. So you started in Cafe Max and kind of expanded out into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the outer area of the ring. Oh, I did see the fence, but I couldn’t get close enough to take a good picture of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It looks incredible. So anyway, the projection of the theater, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the details of that were all amazing. Like I couldn’t believe how good the sound was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco considering the acoustics of the of the environment, like you are throwing sound across a huge field of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people against a curved glass building.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The, just managing like the sound reflections of that, like that would have been horrendous to try to engineer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, but they did it. I was especially impressed, like the screen they were projecting onto was incredibly bright

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and colorful in direct sun.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not easy. I don’t think they were projecting onto it. Wasn’t it like a micro LED display

⏹️ ▶️ John where the LEDs are not so micro?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, whatever it was, whatever technology the screen was using, you’re probably right, it probably couldn’t have been projection because I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t imagine how they get that kind of brightness, but it was clearly visible, there was no glare, no reflections, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it had nanotexture, but it was just an incredibly, very high production value. And then,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know how the live stream started, like how the broadcast stream started, but five minutes earlier than the stated start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time, Tim Cook comes out on the actual physical stage in person, and everyone cheers, everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheers and he kind of introduced the event in that five minute span and and Craig came up for in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a minute or two there too. So Tim and Craig were up there, you know, rallying everybody up. Everyone cheered for them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Then they left and then the video actually started and there was no there were no other applicants on stage after that point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I assume you didn’t see that a little intro on the live stream.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, that’s correct.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So anyway, yeah, user in the chat wolf says Tim Cook was the warm up act

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Tim Cook.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yes, that’s That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John exactly what happened.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John done. I also heard reports of

⏹️ ▶️ John drones flying overhead. Did you see any?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There was one drone that started out kind of over in the middle and then kind of flew up. It was clearly like Apple’s drone, meant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for probably taking some B-roll for the actual event. But yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway, it was great. And then so after the keynote, which was awesome, and I lucked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out so much. So they set the media in the back. the back most 10 or 20

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rows were in the shade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the building shaded it. And so I’m sitting, I brought like sunscreen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and TSA stole my sunscreen, I had to buy new sunscreen and like hats, sunglasses, like all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this stuff. And they even, and Apple gave out goodie bags to all the developers that included a hat,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sunscreen, a water bottle, masks. So I now have two of those like special Apple store masks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, we are the very first row that’s in the shade as it starts. And then as it progressed,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sun just added more rows that were in the shade. So we never lost the sun. Meanwhile, I looked seven rows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ahead of me was Phil Schiller sitting down. He was in direct sun. I had a better seat than Phil Schiller.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t even know what to make of this. Like maybe if he came back on our show more often, maybe he would be moved into the good seats instead

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheap ones. Yeah, although I did confirm that he was not in fact on the roof. You know, he is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still on the ground in Apple Park. Yeah, I had a nice little chat with him later on. Yeah, he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Real-time follow-up, I’m being told from an anonymous source that the screen was an LED

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wall. So take that to mean what you will, but as you guessed, it is not projection. It was actual LEDs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of some sort. Yeah, that makes sense. And they were, like, whatever it was, it was fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then after the presentation, the developers went back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into Café Max to have a big lunch thing, and then I believe they watched State of the Union in that same giant venue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the big screen. was led out instead of lunch, we went to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Steve Jobs theater and I’ve never been there before. Oh, no way. Yeah. So we didn’t. We just went to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lobby like the upstairs big circle of glass. We didn’t actually go like down into the theater area, but in the the upstairs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco glass circle room was converted into basically a hands on area for the new MacBook Air, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, we’ll get to that in a little bit. And that’s and that’s where it’s funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll just tell you this now before I give my impressions. So, you know, the hands on areas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at Apple events, they’re full of all of the video people. Like everyone who runs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco YouTube channels and like video media, all of them are like crammed around the products with their giant cameras trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get the perfect shot and trying not to get anyone else in the shot. And so, you know, those of us who are not video people, we’ll kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of just like hang back, you know, give them a give them a little while and they take forever. But, you know, I understand give them a little while to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get their video shot and, you know, get their perfect everything. And they had all the different colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the MacBook Air around around this giant circle of concrete and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one blue one that was close. That was like the entire half of the room. I was in the one blue one. It kept being mobbed by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the video people. Finally, I finally get my chance. The one person ahead of me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just steps away from it. I go up and I, you know, I asked the handle. Oh, can I can I see this and they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say, oh, hold on, we we have to wait and that’s the moment

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Tim Cook is coming up for a photo op with that MacBook Air.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I had to wait for Tim Cook. And that’s not this is not a fast

⏹️ ▶️ John process. Did you take a video of it? Is he take out a camera taking a video of him introducing right? Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John first channel.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So and like when you see that so you know Tim Cook as he approaches like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the room everyone starts cheering people start mobbing in that direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Was he crowd surfing? I just stood exactly where I was already standing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which by the way, I will say this exact same thing happened when I was looking at the Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in 2019 when I was like right next to Tim Cook then. And this is hilarious because like I mean, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t even like Tim Cook that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John much. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, okay, you know, so when he enters the room, like it’s like, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, he’s a celebrity. Everyone cheers, everyone moms, everyone shouting, Hey Tim, you know, everyone’s asking questions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the guy next to me asks, Tim, are we in a simulation? What

⏹️ ▶️ John is what it’s like to be Tim Cook.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right yeah he gave some you know some neutral response like no I think this is the reality something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but anyway so I’m just standing around everybody is like shoving me trying to get close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Tim Cook and I’m like I just wanted my turn with this freaking MacBook Air I saw all the other ones I just want to see the blue one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s right there right in front of me and because I’m like I am right there and my hope

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that I photobombed every single one of these people shots that they’re trying to get a picture of Tim Cook on his MacBook Air. Meanwhile,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim walks up and he’s like, there were people trying to shoot him from across

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the room with this long lens. And so he was kind of doing press poses. And it was kind of like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remember that episode of Parks and Rec where they have the political candidate and he just kind of sits in a room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and smiles like a robot and you’re like, what is he doing? Clearly Tim has done this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot, right? And so he walked up very slowly to the MacBook Air and he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco takes selfies with everybody on the way out so it takes him a very long time to get there. He so by the time he gets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there he walks right up and he like opens the lid holds the MacBook Air up he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sets it down and types nothing on the key he was typing like random characters into a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer that was just showing the desktop there were no apps open but he he convincingly looked like he was typing something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like he used the trackpad to move it was like he was doing nothing but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole purpose was just to be photographed and he obviously knew this and was prepared for this and everything. It was just it was a funny thing to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very close up because they were only like it was like one person in front of me and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim. So it was very we were very very close and it’s just all the video people trying to shove

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their lenses next to my head and I’m just standing there smiling. I took like two pictures and I’m like I’m done I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna keep standing here. Also I couldn’t move because I might you know there were a million

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people behind me locking me into my position so I was like I’m just gonna enjoy this for a little while until the crowd

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dissipates a bit. of it. So I might be on some like, you know, some random news

⏹️ ▶️ Marco channel around the world, like in their background footage, Tim Cook launching the new MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ John should look disgruntled. When is it gonna be my turn? Right? Tim cut the line

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know what? I never got a turn. It was just so mobbed like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I mean, I could have walked around to the other side of the room and gotten a different blue one with the different mob video people around it for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two hours. But you know, I was like, I was like, all right, I saw enough of it from so I didn’t I didn’t actually touch the blue one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did handle silver one for a while and I got a lot of impressions on that, but we’ll get to that later. But anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s, anyway, after that we all went back to the visitor center. I, you know, we had some lunch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there, downloaded the betas, bought some shorts for my kid, you know, stuff like that. And then that’s it. And then I came

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you did not have an opportunity to watch the State of the Union? Is that right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I watched it in the visitor center. Like as, like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey was eating lunch and oh yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sat with a few friends of ours, underscore, you know, so, and watched the State of the Union Gotcha.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. So I don’t even know how to verbalize this. So like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey did this feel like WWDC to you? I know that we can barely remember what the real

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or traditional WWDC was like. It was, you know, in 2019 was the last time it really happened,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but did this feel anything at all similar? Did it feel totally different? How much, if it was different, was that because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re now fancy press lad, or is it different because it’s different? Like, can you compare

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and contrast to 2019? contrast to 2019?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is clearly the way forward. This is definitely how they’re gonna keep doing it, or at least how they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should keep doing it. And I, frankly, when you see how well this worked and how happy the Apple people all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem to be about how well it was working, and you look at all the advantages it has to them, I mean, look, there’s no conference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco center involved. There’s no like downtown involved to work with for any of this stuff. Like you just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have a smaller scale event that’s like a big in-person celebration for whoever can make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, where they can get in here. But then mostly it’s an online conference because they said the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number, I think it was like 20 or 30 million developers that they have. And, you know, even the biggest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conferences they would hold in person held like six thousand people. And so it’s a drop in the bucket. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve been talking for a while. Like, clearly, what they have to do is keep doing it online. Like we saw

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when they were forced to do it online for covid, we saw how good it became and all the session videos and like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco session production is so great and it’s better for everybody. It’s better for the presenters. They don’t have to like get all nervous about doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff live. It’s better for, you know, certainly people who are watching at home because we have higher production

⏹️ ▶️ Marco values. We can see things better. They can edit things if they didn’t quite work right the first time. They, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, they can do different camera angles. They can have more. It’s just, it’s so much better as like for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conference videos to be the pre-produced kind that they have now. So the only difference is like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how do you solve the like the fun of an in-person event, the community angle, maybe like those are, those are hard to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco solve for sure. But I think this is clearly how they’re going to try to do that, where it’s, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some press, a bunch of developers, and they have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it kind of be like a celebration of Apple, a sales pitch for Apple, a pitch for working for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple maybe, as I was saying earlier with like a recruitment angle of Apple Park being so cool. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is clearly the way forward. And anybody who is holding on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope for the return of a 6,000 person thing in a conference center, I think that’s not going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen. We’ll see. Maybe they can grow this version of this a little bit more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How many people were there? I don’t think they publicly said. I heard it was about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a thousand, maybe a little more than that. I think maybe they could double it roughly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think it would go to 5,000 ever, but I could be wrong. I mean, we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Park absorbed that many people in a pretty graceful way, it seemed. It wasn’t totally outrageous.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It wasn’t crammed in. it wasn’t overcrowded. So we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But this is clearly the way forward, and I think honestly it’s the way to go. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a small percentage of the developer community is able to come out to these at all, to make it way better for all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the remote participants, which is the vast majority of people who use this content, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then have a little bit of fun stuff they can do in person for certain things like this, I think that’s a good balance. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we never have to go to a convention center again.

⏹️ ▶️ John media perspective, because what you had is the typical media experience is the first day. There’s no sessions anyway, or people

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know. It’s just always the keynote in the state of the union and then maybe a hands on and some, uh, and media briefings.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. So that totally makes sense that you had the same thing, but for the non media experience,

⏹️ ▶️ John people travel to California to see the cool Apple campus, uh, sit in a seat and watch

⏹️ ▶️ John a pre-recorded video. And yes, they got a tour of the Apple developer center and some other stuff. Right. But like

⏹️ ▶️ John I do, that’s not WWDC. That’s more like, uh, you know, apple park tourism,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And apple park tourism is cool and fun, but I feel like it’s not the same thing as WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John was, which is basically what you’re saying is, uh, they can continue to do this apple park tourism thing, but

⏹️ ▶️ John they should have the media there in person to, you know, for the reasons I described last week is when you’re marketing to people, you want

⏹️ ▶️ John them to be there in person and you can do hands-on stuff or whatever, have the conference be online

⏹️ ▶️ John and then have a, you know, field day at apple park.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But ultimately, I think that’s actually fine. So anecdotally, we did a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tour of the developer center with a random group of other developers, and at the end they asked where everybody was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from. And the people who were there mostly hadn’t traveled very far to get there. There were a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people from Oregon, Seattle, other parts of California. And there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were a few people from much further away. One person was from France.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the cost-benefit ratio change a lot for the idea of flying all the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here and putting yourself up in a hotel solely to have Apple Park tourism.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, the number of people who want that is not zero. And I think they clearly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they want to have a few thousand people out here, I think it fulfills their desire to have a big fun

⏹️ ▶️ Marco event to celebrate all the stuff they’re doing. They want to have developers come in person. They want to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of component like that for lots of reasons that I think are pretty good reasons. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this fulfills that need and gives people a fun thing to aspire to one day. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe you don’t go every year. I mean, even in the past few years of Conference Center, WBDC’s, most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people weren’t coming every year. But maybe it’s something that you do a couple times in your career as a goal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or once in your career. Because just to say, I went there, I saw that place, I was there once, it was great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that, because that’s really what with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the conference center setup, it was just becoming a somewhat cumbersome version of that, and a limited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version of that. And this is just so much nicer. You don’t want to fly to California

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see a convention center. You want to fly to California as an Apple developer to see Apple’s campus, to see the Apple Park, to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go to the ring. That’s what you want to see. And in previous conferences, you almost never would see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s campus, unless you go way, way, way back. But in the modern era, you would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never have the kind of access we had today with the old setup. And now you do and it just makes it so much cooler and it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gives you the tourism angle of something cool to see almost as a totally separate thing from the actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conference which is something that you do on your own time in your hotel Wi-Fi later.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the bash at Infinite Loop in 2008 or something. I saw James Thompson posting some pictures. Like I know

⏹️ ▶️ John time is relative and you say way, way, way back. It wasn’t still in the 2000s that when they did the, they used

⏹️ ▶️ John to call it the beer bash. That’s how politically incorrect it was. And that was actually on the Infinite Loop campus and they

⏹️ ▶️ John would bring developers there and they’d sit on the grass and do stuff. 2003 maybe? I don’t know. In the 2000s

⏹️ ▶️ John I think. But yeah, I guess that’s ancient history now.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so there was a lot covered. There was a lot, a lot covered. It was basically like a two-hour keynote,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wasn’t it? I didn’t actually look at the time. We are going to, in famous last words, attempt to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blow through a lot of this as quickly as possible and then we will have plenty of time to talk about it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over the coming weeks. Also, we don’t plan to cover the State of the Union today. We’ll probably cover that next week

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if we can get through our follow-up in a timely manner. So here we go. plow through in semi-chronological

⏹️ ▶️ Casey order. We start with Iowa 16 and Craig. And I know we’ve said this many times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the past, Craig is just leaning into this presenter role, man. I just, I keep getting flashbacks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to him with the shaky hand over the magic mouse. And he is like the king of presenters now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He is so good. And I, in leaning into these ridiculous like segues and montages

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or whatever, it made me very happy. But he started talking about an all new lock screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which had been rumored for a while. and it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds like there’s widgets on the lock screen now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is really interesting. So what they’ve effectively done here is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco widgets are now powered by WidgetKit. Include, well, sorry, they’ve always happened, sorry. Complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the watch are now powered by the same code. So now you write a complication

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using WidgetKit and that same thing runs on the phone lock screen and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch. same code, it can run in both places, and you can customize it in certain little minor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways. So it’s all the Swift UI code, and it’s great. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I installed the beta on a little test phone here that I have here, I played with it for a few minutes. That’s the only thing I’ve played with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far, because I haven’t had too much time, but it’s pretty great. You have a lot of customization.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is so wonderful, and by the way, it was amazing sitting next to Underscore as they were demoing this, because it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey looks just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Widget Smith in so many ways. Especially like, one thing that shocked me the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most, so they had this new home screen, customizability designs, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have all these little things where like, oh, the picture can have elements that obstruct part of the time, so the time gets kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of layered into elements of the picture, so that it’s partly covered up. They’re leaning hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into that, I think, because it’s novel. I don’t know why you’d want your time to be partially covered up, but cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it looked very cool. Like, I understand what you’re getting at, but I still thought it looked really cool. They’re trying

⏹️ ▶️ John to make the person stand out. They always show that. did it on the watch faces too. Like it’s basically if you have a, you know, a picture of one of your

⏹️ ▶️ John kids or your spouse or something, like the person is in slightly in front of the little bottom of the time. So you

⏹️ ▶️ John can still read it because the numbers are big, but it makes the person pop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, right. So anyway, there is tons of customization. One thing that surprised me greatly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that they are offering different fonts. Like that I thought was a huge surprise. Yeah, and colors? Colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I figured they would do, because the watch does colors, right? The watch does not do fonts. So that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought was really surprising. And it’s good because it’ll offer a lot of variety and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco personalization and people always want personalization. And when you are the world’s biggest corporation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you make these devices that like, so many people have iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Apple Watches. Like so many people have these devices that to have more personalization,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve seen before, people eat that up, people want that and you need that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the lock screen before has been so tightly controlled and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sterile. Really, it’s time for this. I’m very, very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco glad they’ve added this, and I think we’re gonna see a lot of great customization. And even though I think the actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco utility value, it will depend a lot on how you use your phone. It will depend on how often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do you see your lock screen versus just blow right past it and unlock your phone and go do something in your phone, right? So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s gonna depend a lot on your usage pattern. For me, I don’t know how it’ll fly necessarily, but I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really happy to see this as a thing. I think people are going to love this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re going to use the crap out of this and we’re gonna see some really cool lock screen widgets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and designs and customizations and everything. And this is just great on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all fronts.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the utility of it really ties into the whole focus modes thing where you can have multiple lock screens based on your focus

⏹️ ▶️ John mode. And in particular, the idea that you can have one for work and for home, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And so what I, I mean, maybe this is bad, but like the thing I immediately thought of is like, all right, so work focus. So

⏹️ ▶️ John first of all, what you’d put on the lock screen and your work focus is like your work calendar, which maybe you don’t need to

⏹️ ▶️ John see the other times, like, you know, some work related messaging things or like a

⏹️ ▶️ John little widget that shows you the status of some service or whatever and stuff like that. And don’t have the,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, picture of like your favorite Marvel character or something like that. Maybe a work related

⏹️ ▶️ John background that’s more serious and business like. And the reason why you might be looking at your lock screen is because

⏹️ ▶️ John back in the old days when we had meetings in conference rooms and your phone is on the table, you just tap your phone, look at the lock

⏹️ ▶️ John screen. You’re not unlocking it because you don’t wanna pick up your phone and unlock it because that would be rude during a meeting, but you might wanna glance at the

⏹️ ▶️ John lock screen. You know what I mean? I feel like that’s the main scenario where you’re looking at your lock screen, but not

⏹️ ▶️ John unlocking.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John you just pretend you’re checking your time, but what you’re really checking is to see if that person responded to that email that you sent before the meeting. But you wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John do it in a discreet way and not unlock your phone. I think they’re leaning into the focus

⏹️ ▶️ John modes and having apps be aware of the focus modes and having the apps change based on the focus modes and everything,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s really, it’s just gotta be, you know, a catnip for the right kind of person who really wants

⏹️ ▶️ John to essentially have like a day phone or a night phone, a work phone and a home phone. It’s the same phone, but it’s transforming

⏹️ ▶️ John itself based on your context in more and more ways. And the lock screen is definitely part of that because,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, customizing your lock screen for work-related stuff lets you essentially not

⏹️ ▶️ John junk up your personal phone. If you’re using your personal phone at work, which many people do, you know, usually has an MDM

⏹️ ▶️ John thing profile on it where they have control of it, but you don’t wanna junk it up too much, but you want it to be useful

⏹️ ▶️ John and work. And it’s great to have your work phone transform back into your personal phone, sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of, in terms of, you know, the picture of your kid and your wife and the widgets you wanna see and your sports scores

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything like that. And all that stuff is, you don’t have to like come up with this weird compromise that

⏹️ ▶️ John is serious enough for work, but you know, has enough of the stuff that you want at home. you can

⏹️ ▶️ John have two totally different experiences.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s a really good point. And it also looked like, if I understood it correctly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can swipe side to side to get the different lock screens a la Apple Watch. I might have that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong. After you do a long

⏹️ ▶️ John press, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Is that what it is? Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was worried about that. I don’t know if you’ve tried this yet, Marco, but like long press on the locks?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m always afraid of accidental activation because I know that my parents butt dial me enough as it is somehow. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John how they do it. Maybe it’s like the delay that we talked about on the past show where you hit the power button and

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t go to sleep immediately because it’s waiting to see if you’re double tapping it. And maybe that’s enough for them to like fat finger it

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, but anyway, we’ll see how it is. Park, do you have the beta? Casey, do you have the

⏹️ ▶️ John beta installed? No, I haven’t put it on yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You do have to long press. So if you, because right now, if you swipe to the right, you get the camera and if you swipe to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco left, you get like your like today widget kind of view. So you do have to long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco press to switch them.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s a long press on the locked screen, right? Yes. So that seems

⏹️ ▶️ John weird to me and a little bit maybe prone to accidental activation, but I

⏹️ ▶️ John suppose we’ll all find out when we try. But like I said, there’s no more forced touch, no more press hard on your

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Apple removed that. Even removed it from the watch, didn’t they?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or is it still in the watch? Yeah, it’s gone. I think it’s gone from all modern

⏹️ ▶️ John up-to-date hardware. And that was a little bit more of a barrier to accidental activation because you had to press hard. And I understand

⏹️ ▶️ John why they got rid of it, you know, the sensors and everything, and the bending of the screen and not being able to do it on the iPad and yada yada.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s fine, but we’ll just see how it works out. But that was the one reservation I had. The other thing I noted about this whole

⏹️ ▶️ John lock screen thing is, you know, Margaret just said before, like Apple realizing belatedly,

⏹️ ▶️ John I would argue, how much people want to customize their phones. And in particular,

⏹️ ▶️ John the features for the lock screen recognize that people want to customize their phones in ways that quote unquote

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t make sense or don’t have utility, right? Like that you say, well, you know, why would you want

⏹️ ▶️ John it that way? And the answer is, well, I want it the way I want it. and that’s what Apple is finally giving people. So the example

⏹️ ▶️ John here is like notifications. Rather than notifications filling your screen when you have a lot of them,

⏹️ ▶️ John we know that a lot of people have like a picture of a loved one on their lock screen and they don’t want the UI

⏹️ ▶️ John covering that picture of the person. And so let’s jam all the notifications down

⏹️ ▶️ John into this little stack. It’s like, well, I can see less stuff. I’ve got this whole phone screen. Why am I moving everything down? That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what people want. They don’t want stuff covering the pictures of their kid, right? You see people do with their

⏹️ ▶️ John home screens. They put it like, you know, on their actual home screens, they put a picture of their, you know, spouse or child

⏹️ ▶️ John or something, and they range the icons in the home screen so it doesn’t cover up the person’s face.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, well, you’re wasting half your home screen. It’s like, I’m not wasting it. I wanna see, this is what I wanna see. I don’t want the stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want the UI blocking the picture that I put there, so let me do that. And they’re letting that happen

⏹️ ▶️ John on the home screen. In fact, you can hide the notifications entirely if you want. It’s like, well, what’s the point of your phone if you can’t see notifications? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not why I want my phone. I just want this cool picture of my dog on my phone. That’s what I want. I don’t want notifications covering my

⏹️ ▶️ John dog’s face. Good old Huckleberry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And yes, and also worth mentioning, the Live Activities API.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is a thing where you can have a live widget on the lock screen that is live updating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and interactive.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, this looks really cool. This is so like if you have a basketball game that you’re watching the score of, or there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lift about to pick you up, and it will update, like you were saying, live, to some degree of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey liveness. It will update live. and you can actually see the progress

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of these things happening.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is something that they said is coming in an update to iOS 16 later this year. So that’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not in the launch version, and I don’t think we have any API for it yet, but they mentioned in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco State of the Union that when you have a live activity thing running, your app is running continuously,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or at least some part of your app. Maybe it’s just the extension that’s running that, but you have continuous access,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you have a regular SwiftUI view there, so you can live do whatever you want there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, I think you’re right. I think like things like like, you know, your ride sharing things is on its

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. You can track that. Like there’s so many times where you have to like keep unlocking your phone to go check

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something or something tries to send you a million notifications to update you on the progress of something that’s happening.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so for this to be able to help reduce some of that clutter and friction and everything, I think that could be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really cool. So we’ll see how this turns out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Tiny window with the baseball game in it from the MLB app. Yeah. Like the live video in real time. You unlock,

⏹️ ▶️ John you tap your phone and you can see it a little thumbnail. the baseball game you’re watching.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and this is obviously also, we’ve heard recent rumors that the iPhone 14

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might have an always on screen option, at least the 14 Pro might. I think this is clearly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in preparation for that. Cause that changes things. The utility of this, think about it when you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have, you’re always on screen on your iPhone 14 Pro possibly, then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain, I would imagine it would be similar to the Apple Watch always on screen where like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when the screen is not like fully on, everything’s in some kind of dimmed mode where maybe you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like lose the fill colors on things and everything gets less bright and everything. But I bet there’s gonna be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like that for the iPhone 14 or at least some future iPhone. And this is clearly like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco setting up this great feature to have, you know, some like one extra Swift UI modifier to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it work on the always on screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s why hiding notifications entirely may be a feature because if some future iPhone did have an always on screen

⏹️ ▶️ John and your phone is sitting on your table, maybe you don’t want notifications to pop up. Even if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just metadata, because you can’t see the text because the phone hasn’t been unlocked, you don’t wanna know who the message is from or that you got a

⏹️ ▶️ John message. So if you want to use always on home screen, which I assume will be an option just like it is on the watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe that’s another case where you would turn off notifications entirely on the lock screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, as we continue along, there was some talk about focus, which we’ve, I think at least slightly covered.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was a new concept of focus filters, And so this is, for example,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you could only show tabs that have been somehow marked as relevant to work or marked as relevant to home

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or whatever the case may be. Similarly, conversations and messages, accounts in the mail app,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey events in your calendar, and apparently there’s gonna be a new API for that as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so this is an example of a single phone being a home phone and a work phone. Like, you know, having in the mail app,

⏹️ ▶️ John having multiple email accounts, right? But you don’t wanna, you wanna use one mail app. A lot of people do this, they say, well, I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John use two different mail apps. One will be my work mail app and one will be a home mail app because I don’t want my home, my work email mixing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like the fact that the two accounts are in there. But if you had a mail app that was aware that used this new API,

⏹️ ▶️ John it could just completely hide the work ones when you’re not at work and vice versa. And the same thing with calendars. I mean, again, you could do this

⏹️ ▶️ John manually. Oh, every calendaring app has a way for you to disable and re-enable calendars, but now it can do

⏹️ ▶️ John it based on your focus mode. This is gonna, this is an API that people have to adopt and we’ll see how widespread it is, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s really setting up a scenario where you can use a single phone for it. I’m just using home and work, but you can imagine a million different contexts.

⏹️ ▶️ John like vacation mode or workout mode

⏹️ ▶️ John or meditation mode or doing something with your hobby or photography mode. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just many, many options. A lot of people don’t do this. They’re just like, my phone is my phone. I set up the way I want it and it’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John But for the people who do want this, having this woven deeper into the system, it doesn’t take anything away from people who don’t want to use it,

⏹️ ▶️ John but sounds great for the people who do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I do think this is gonna be possibly a tricky thing for a lot of apps to implement, like just making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the UI for this. I haven’t looked at the API yet, but I assume they have to give us a list of your focus modes and then have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us offer you check boxes. Do you want this to show in work mode? Do you want this to show in walking your dog mode?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then I imagine this is gonna be one of those things that users, especially users

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of power user apps, they’re gonna demand this. They’re gonna demand their app support

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this. And I’m kind of worried, like I’m pretty sure I’m gonna have to support that given my user base and overcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But yeah, it’s a good idea. I think we’ll see how it goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Here comes one of my favorite portions of the keynote. I am not being sarcastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Messages. Messages finally got some love and I am here for it. We are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting an iMessage anyway. We will be able to edit messages. We will be able to undo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a sent message and we will be able to, praise be, we will be able to mark

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a thread as unread. Marry me, Craig Federici. Please and thank you. Thank you. I am so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When they announced the editing and especially the undo send, that got the biggest applause of the day. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the developers that were there, that was by far the biggest applause.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, when you control the entire system, you know, because Apple, iMessage is Apple’s thing. They write

⏹️ ▶️ John the apps, they write the servers, they write everything. They can do stuff like this. They can just, you know, how can I edit? I already

⏹️ ▶️ John sent it. How can I undo a send? I already sent it. They control everything. They can do it. And they finally did.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. No, this is so great. I’m really, really excited for this. Like I’m into editing messages.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that’ll be very convenient, especially because I am an old man and I try to write messages that are, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is decent English and not, you know, complete childlike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wording and whatnot. But nevertheless, undo, send, like whatever, I’m sure that’ll be helpful from time to time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But marking a thread is unread. I am so excited for it because I wanna see what people want from me,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but oftentimes I don’t wanna respond right that second. And the way I remember to respond is by not having marked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it as red. So I do, you know, it used to be a forced force press and now it’s like the long press and it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pop up the little quick view window that’ll, so you can read it, but then you gotta be really careful. You don’t push it again or anything like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. And suddenly it’s marked as red. And then once it’s marked as red, you are, you are never going to get a response from me because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s been cleared. If I don’t handle it right that moment, I’m never going to remember to go back to it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey marking a thread is unread. I am so genuinely excited for this is going to be great. Yeah, me

⏹️ ▶️ John too. This is another example of a thing that sounds silly. Like your system is dumb. Your whole system is

⏹️ ▶️ John to remind you to do it later is to just mark it as unread. Well, it’s not true. You read it. Why are you

⏹️ ▶️ John marking it as unread? That’s a bad system. But it’s like, that’s what everybody does. Like when you give that feature

⏹️ ▶️ John to people, mark as unread, that’s what people use it for. And though you may think that is inefficient

⏹️ ▶️ John or silly or people shouldn’t use their inboxes or to-do list or whatever your mantra is,

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact is people want this feature. And so you should give it to them. and how people use it is up to them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah. I’m genuinely super excited for this. Yeah. Moving along, there’s going to be a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shared with you API. There’s some SharePlay stuff. The most interesting thing to me about SharePlay, now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have not done any SharePlay anything to my recollection since it’s launched. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I did a handful of times use Plex’s equivalent feature, I don’t remember their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey marketing name for it, to watch a movie with like some family members. So we’re concurrently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watching the movie. either one of us pauses, then the other ones, you know, playback will get paused, et cetera, et cetera. This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is not unique to Plex. But my understanding of SharePlay up until today is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you had to have a FaceTime call going while all this was going on, which is not necessarily what you want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re trying to watch a film or a TV show together, like that’s, that does not seem like what you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would want. And what we did when we were doing this with Plex and with family was we would,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we were in a group chat, you know, a group, well, my darn brother-in-law refuses to get an iPhone like an adult, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we were in a group MMS chat. And so we were just chatting back and forth, you know, sending text messages

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to each other. Well, now SharePlay will support doing exactly that. So you can start a SharePlay thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey via messages instead of FaceTime. And then you still get the whole playback being paused and things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of that nature, whatever’s appropriate for the thing you’re SharePlaying. But you don’t have to have a FaceTime call going.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I’m excited for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And the shared with you API is going to to be, I think, another thing that, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, I’m going to have to add that for sure in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey app. You know, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I heard that I’m like, oh, thank God, because when they announced share with you last year, where it just worked with like, Apple News,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple podcast, stuff like that. I was like, man, I wish I could do that. Now they called my bluff, they added

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the API’s and now I have to do it. So that’s adding more to my work this summer. But I think it’s going to be that that’s that’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be a good one, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then we got some updates on dictation. Most of this, I personally wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that jazzed about, however, one of the things they said is that, well, first of all, it’s all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on device using the neural engine, but there’s an all new on-device dictation experience, which,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I quote, “‘fluidly moves between voice and touch.’” Now that is kind of cool, because there’s a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of times where I’ll be dictating something, and I know that Siri will never understand a word

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m about to say or something like that. And so it would be nicer just to type it and then continue dictation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And apparently you’re gonna be able to do exactly that. and the keyboard will stay open during dictation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can dictate emoji, which I think will be more challenging than you would expect because so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey often you’re not gonna know the official Apple name for these things. But nevertheless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m here for this. I think this sounds all pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And automatic punctuation.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a good thing. So you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to say, what do you need from the store? You can actually just try it and hopefully that works pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, I hope it does a good job with it because it’s gonna be tricky to figure out what kind of punctuation is required.

⏹️ ▶️ John But even just the basics, just ending a sentence when you pause or when it seems like it’s the end of a sentence grammatically will

⏹️ ▶️ John go a long way. Because as the recipient of many messages that are dictated, I can tell

⏹️ ▶️ John you that most people do not use punctuation. They don’t say period, they certainly don’t say comma,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they almost never say question mark. And so it’s just like this word salad that you have to figure out where the boundaries are.

⏹️ ▶️ John So this can almost certainly have to be an improvement. And like Casey said, the ability to fix it up on the fly.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, if people aren’t speaking the punctuation, they’re probably not gonna fix it up on the fly, but I appreciate the ability to fix

⏹️ ▶️ John it up on the fly. I hope it works well. The thing they demoed where someone like highlighted some text with their finger and then spoke

⏹️ ▶️ John to change it, I do wonder if the mode that the phone is in may get out of sync

⏹️ ▶️ John with the mode that your brain is in, whereas you’re not aware that the phone is still listening to you and you say something as an

⏹️ ▶️ John aside to somebody and then it takes that text and shoves it in the thing that you just highlighted. We’ll see how that goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. They also talked about live text in video. So you can pause a video and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then interact with the text on the frame, which I thought was kind of cool, and do quick actions like currency conversion or translation or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the case may be. Translate app will also now have a Translate camera. What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is it that Google bought, like Word Lens or something like that? I forget the name of the app, but it eventually got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sucked into Google Translate. And so actually when Marco and Aaron and Tiff and me were we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all in Germany, we use this from time to time in order to actually read a menu by having it translate,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, basically a photograph of the menu into English. And so,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I think that would be cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Translate is loose. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it was pretty rough. It gives you a rough idea,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. We had some unexpected results from using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that sometimes. We did, but this was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey almost 10 years ago now. That was 2013, so I mean, this was a while ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say, too, we kind of breezed right past the easier to use Siri app API.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s called the App Intents API, which is kind of a replacement for SiriKit. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an all new thing, Swift only, or primarily accessible through Swift at least. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it basically makes it much, much easier to add Siri and shortcut and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco intent support to your apps. Before we had this terrible intent definition thing, these intense extensions,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they were fairly clunky to work with. And they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now augmented that API. but it’s not fully replacing it yet. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new App Intents API looks very, very good. I’m very much looking forward to seeing if I can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use that and get rid of some of my massive amount of boilerplate generated intent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco code and stuff. And so, yeah, that looks pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. And then they also demoed in this section visual lookup. And they talked about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they called it like lifting an object. But basically what you can do is let’s say you have a picture of Hops or Daisy or Penny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And if you want, you can touch and hold on their body on this, on the picture

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it will intelligently lift just them out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the picture. So, you know, it’s like a, a very close crop of just their body

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of the picture, and then you can like drag and drop it into messages or something like that, which if that works at all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is super freaking cool. I don’t know what I would use it, but the fact that you could do it is super cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. That’s, this is the kind of thing I’m sure in practice, there’s going to be a lot of situations where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it cuts off your dog’s leg or accidentally includes a tree from the background because it was blurred

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in just the right way and you happen to have a green dog or something. Anyway, I’m sure it’s going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very context dependent on how well it works, but even if it works decently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the time, that’s still a really cool feature. So I’m looking forward to that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. We’re trying to move kind of quickly now. They talked about wallet, which one of the cool things about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is that if you have your ID, your driver’s license in the wallet. You can have an app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ask, hey, is this person over 21? And you don’t have to say, well, my birthday is such and such. Actually, Marco’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey birthday is coming up between our next recording. So happy 40th. That reminds me. But anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will share, oh, yes, this user is over 21. That’s all you need to know. And they also talk about keys.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they’re working with IETF to make that a whole sharing protocol, which is cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They talked about Apple Pay and PayLater, which had been rumored as well, where you can split the cost of purchases

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into four equal payments, spread over six weeks with no interest, no fees, et cetera. And that is transparent to the vendor.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just you’re using Apple Pay as far as they’re concerned and unbeknownst to them, you’re kind of setting up a loan with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple. Makes me feel a little weird. I’m not sure why Apple’s into this, but I don’t want to belabor the point

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do they make money on that by like, if you miss a payment, then you charge interest like a credit card. Is that how that works?

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess that, but the more I look at it, I’m wondering maybe it was just a ploy to get people to use Apple Pay more often.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they just want, is essentially it’s a way to increase usage of their payment system, which they do collect fees for,

⏹️ ▶️ John but not actually a way to like collect interest. But it seems weird that like,

⏹️ ▶️ John if they’re spreading the payments out, what happens if somebody doesn’t pay? Do they send them to collections? Is there no interest ever?

⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t get a chance to look into it. Yeah, I assume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like a credit card where you get dinged a big fee if you don’t pay on time. But I don’t know, you know, Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moving into like, you know, somewhat usurious possibility, financial services,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I just, this stuff, I’m sure they’re very happy about it. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff is just all gross to me. I wish they didn’t have to move into this business.

⏹️ ▶️ John But they’re not doing it. Like they outsourced it to Goldman Sachs last time. It’s like Apple does not, doesn’t want to be in the business of

⏹️ ▶️ John being a credit card company. They just want to control the UX to another credit card company, just sort of bent, kind of like Apple didn’t become

⏹️ ▶️ John a carrier, but sort of bent the carriers to its will to the extent that Apple took control over the parts of the experience that I

⏹️ ▶️ John thought was important. But in the end, we still had to pay a Verizon bill or pay an AT&T bill.

⏹️ ▶️ John And Apple did not make the experience of dealing with Verizon or AT&T any better in terms of like paying the bill or dealing

⏹️ ▶️ John with coverage or rates and stuff like that. And same thing with Apple Pay, like the, or not Apple Pay, the Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John Card, right? It’s a Goldman Sachs MasterCard in the end, and you’re dealing with them, and they’re the ones who are

⏹️ ▶️ John increasing your credit limit and dealing with billing issues and all that stuff. But Apple just puts this layer over the top

⏹️ ▶️ John of it. So this pay later thing, if it’s Apple putting a layer over the top, I bet there’s no interest

⏹️ ▶️ John or anything, and it’s just a way to get more people to use Apple Pay. But if instead it is a financial instrument from Goldman Sachs, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can bet your butt that if you miss one of those payments, it’s time for big interest.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I’m sure Apple gets a cut of that kind of thing. Like, the reason Apple does this kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff is partly because they want to have a good experience of you paying for stuff. It’s also services revenue.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s- But I think Goldman Sachs is collecting the revenue. It’s like, there’s the fee for using

⏹️ ▶️ John the credit card that the merchant pays, and Apple surely gets part of that.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yes, they do.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m not sure about interest payments. I don’t know. It’s like, the bottom line is we all have

⏹️ ▶️ John credit cards And this is a thing that exists and Apple trying to make a better one, I think is a reasonable thing to do.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, and we’ll probably have follow up in the coming weeks to see, is this just a ploy for Apple to get more

⏹️ ▶️ John people to use Apple pay and there’s no interest involved? Or is this just yet another system where you can pay later, but if you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t pay, you get interest.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean there are some businesses, I mean, should Apple launch their own line of gas stations? I mean, I mean like people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey we all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John pay that sometimes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, right. That’d be better. But you know, it’s like, do you want them to be in the business of like fossil fuels? Cause I mean that’s, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a gross thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John makes money.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, it’s looking for an area, like, I mean, payments and the phone makes sense as an area that, you know, mapping

⏹️ ▶️ John and the phone makes, and certain things are fit for Apple’s devices and trying to have, you know, and having a wallet

⏹️ ▶️ John on the phone makes sense, having a card. This all makes some sense to me, but I don’t actually

⏹️ ▶️ John know, we’ll find out later, whether this is also a way for Apple to make money for interest payments.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s, anyway, it’s, I’m sure it’s a great experience. It’s also kind of gross, and I wish they wouldn’t do this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff, but I understand why they do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they also have order tracking and wallet, starting with Shopify related things, which, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that seems a little bit of a weird place for it, but I can’t think of a better place for it. So, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ll see. I’m a big time, what is it called? Parcel user, which I really like.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so we’ll see if this is better or different or worse.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was confused by that part because, you know, Shopify will track anything you bought anywhere. It’s very

⏹️ ▶️ John aggressive about finding out where you’ve purchased anything and telling you about how the shipments are coming and stuff like that,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But when I saw the Apple thing, I was like, oh, they’re just gonna tell me about shipments that I use my Apple card for. Well, I’d never

⏹️ ▶️ John use my Apple card except for when I buy Apple stuff, so who cares, right? But then they said there was a Shopify integration

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, so I don’t know. I’m gonna see how this, what this is in practice. Is this just gonna double the amount of alerts

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’m gonna have, you know, Apple alerts about my shipments and also the shop apps alerts for those very same

⏹️ ▶️ John shipments and I have to pick one of them? I’m a little bit confused by the extent of this feature.

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Family features

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Family sharing. John, you want to talk about this?

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re not getting to the big feature yet, but this is just some small stuff of like making it easier to set up, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John a phone for a kid by using another device that’s nearby and a little bit more flexible

⏹️ ▶️ John settings for requesting approval for things. for things, so you don’t have to, this is, as someone who’s used screen

⏹️ ▶️ John times on my kids’ phones, if you miss the notification, which happens

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes because you’re in the middle of doing something else, a little notification comes down and says, so-and-so wants an extra 15

⏹️ ▶️ John minutes of screen time, right? If you don’t catch that notification, you have to go into

⏹️ ▶️ John settings, like they say when they describe this feature, go into settings, go into screen time, go into the person’s thing, and then scroll down

⏹️ ▶️ John and find the thing and then prove it. Now, first of all, it took me a long time to figure that out,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey right? because it’s not obvious.

⏹️ ▶️ John You see the notification and you’re like, oh, I missed it, right? Or it went away because I have it set to go down and then after two seconds

⏹️ ▶️ John it goes away. Or I tried to tap it, it didn’t hit it, whatever. I would just yell through the house, send it again, because

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually I figured out where, eventually I figured out where it was in settings, but sometimes it’s easier to have them send it again anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John because you have to dig in. This is every day in our house. Dig into settings to find the thing or whatever. So now you

⏹️ ▶️ John can approve in messages, which makes much more sense because messages are persistent. So I’m not sure how this is gonna work in

⏹️ ▶️ John practice, but it’s gotta be improving over the existing system.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, and then, so we have easier to manage accounts for kids, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey set age appropriate content limitations, and there’s a quick start setup. So let’s say you have a new iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can bring your own iPhone next to the iPad, and it’ll say, okay, I see that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your family on your iPhone, who is this device for? Is it for you, for your spouse, for your kid,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey et cetera? And that’s pretty cool. And then they also mentioned something a family checklist where they’ll update

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or they’ll make suggestions as how to update these settings as the kids get older. All that’s pretty cool,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but John, tell me the next thing that they talked about because I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey believe that this is real and apparently it’s real.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this also, by the way, got a very large applause.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John doubt it. So I did the math. Hypercritical number nine, No, I life

⏹️ ▶️ John is an island was four thousand one hundred and five days ago

⏹️ ▶️ John Eleven years two months and 26 days.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s just the

⏹️ ▶️ John first time I podcasted about it This has been something that you know that people have wanted from Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John for a long time And we’ve talked about in the show and I know a lot of people are confused but basically the idea

⏹️ ▶️ John is you have a family and in the days before computers a a family would take

⏹️ ▶️ John photos of a wedding, of a vacation, of just around the house or whatever. And then you’d take

⏹️ ▶️ John those photos and you’d put them into photo albums. And dad would not have a separate set of photo

⏹️ ▶️ John albums and mom would not have a separate set of photo albums. There would be a family photo album. You would take the family’s

⏹️ ▶️ John picture. It didn’t matter who held the camera. If your sister held the camera and took a picture and it was a cool picture, that

⏹️ ▶️ John picture would go into the family photo album. If dad took a picture, mom, it doesn’t matter who took it. It would go into the family photo

⏹️ ▶️ John album Didn’t make sense to have separate shelves of dad’s photo albums mom’s photo albums and each individual kids photo

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, maybe kids other problems with their friends But still the idea that it that you’d want to have

⏹️ ▶️ John some kind of sharing of photos within a family It’s well established before computers

⏹️ ▶️ John and computers came along and okay the first round We’re just gonna have a bunch of pictures But eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John you would think they would get around to adding a feature like this and by the time I was complaining about it in 2011 I thought we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John well overdue like we’ve got this whole thing of you know photos on our computers we kind of got it down pat.

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhoto has been out for years. We should have some kind of family photo library. And now finally,

⏹️ ▶️ John after years and years of complaining about this, Apple has taken a swing at this feature, a feature that has been added by many other people in the past,

⏹️ ▶️ John specifically Google, I think we’ve talked about on the show, acknowledging the fact that families exist and sometimes people

⏹️ ▶️ John want to have photos in a shared library. And that is distinct from sharing photos in an album

⏹️ ▶️ John or anything like that. A shared library is just what it sounds like. It’s a photo library that works the same as any

⏹️ ▶️ John of your individual photo libraries work now. If you open your photo library on your Mac, on your phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John on your iPad, everything you can do to that photo library, organizing it, editing it,

⏹️ ▶️ John recognizing faces, labeling people, cropping photos, adding locations, tags,

⏹️ ▶️ John keywords, everything you can do to a photo library, a family photo library is that. A

⏹️ ▶️ John photo library shared by a family, and that appears to be what the heaven was. And it’s complicated

⏹️ ▶️ John because you don’t want every photo to go into the shared library, but you don’t wanna have to manually pick

⏹️ ▶️ John every single photo you want to go into the shared library. So there has to be some kind of smart way to do it. Like, well, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, photos, when I’m in vacation mode, the photos should go into there or if I’m in the same location as someone else, they

⏹️ ▶️ John have all sorts of, you know, smarts trying to handle this. But the bottom line is the most important feature is

⏹️ ▶️ John if they got this part right, there should be a shared photo library and people should be able to take

⏹️ ▶️ John photos from their private libraries and put them into the shared libraries and vice versa.

⏹️ ▶️ John And yes, there can be automated ways to do that, but the basic functionality that has to work is that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Shared library has to exist, it has to not corrupt itself or accidentally delete things, it has to not get super confused, it has to

⏹️ ▶️ John not spew duplicates everywhere, like all that stuff, that’s gotta work. And you have to manually be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John add and remove things, and then everything after that is gravy. Because that’s the question of like, oh, I don’t wanna use the automated features,

⏹️ ▶️ John do I wanna have this thing try to be smart and put photos in there when it realizes we’re all on vacation together

⏹️ ▶️ John in the same location? or do I just want to do it all manually? I haven’t had a chance to look at this, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John I haven’t even installed any of the bitties yet or whatever, but from everything I saw, it seems like they have

⏹️ ▶️ John implemented the straightforward thing. It is not some new, weird, obscure feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John It is just your photo library, but a shared one. And it seems like they’re being very flexible about

⏹️ ▶️ John how things get into and come out of it. So as I was saying to someone, I have like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John 145,000 photos riding on this feature, right? I mean, you know, it’s because I want,

⏹️ ▶️ John for my personal usage, I want almost all of my and my wife’s photos to be in a shared library. Right

⏹️ ▶️ John now,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey she’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey one

⏹️ ▶️ John who owns the real photo library and I have this miniature photo library and I do this manually merging of stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John I want to eventually take our big family photo library that my wife currently owns and

⏹️ ▶️ John make it the shared one. But I’m gonna do that in steps. So further updates for sure, probably

⏹️ ▶️ John in the fall because I don’t really think I’m gonna do this with the beta, but if everything looks okay

⏹️ ▶️ John in the fall and everyone upgrades their OS’s, I’m gonna start the process of moving at

⏹️ ▶️ John least 145,000 photos into the shared library and then have the individual libraries be just the photos that to be individually.

⏹️ ▶️ John So when I take pictures of like random stuff that I’m taking pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John of for like a podcast or other things like that, those currently stay on my phone and those

⏹️ ▶️ John won’t go into the shared photo library, but almost everything else will. So I am really looking forward to this. It is

⏹️ ▶️ John long overdue, but I’m glad they got it done. And honestly, I just want it to work and not destroy my

⏹️ ▶️ John photo library. Oh, and also be full fidelity, not the photo, just the photos themselves, because people were asking about that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is it gonna be the full fidelity? It’s gotta be, it’s a photo library. But when I say full fidelity, I mean the literal

⏹️ ▶️ John decades of work that I have put into organizing my photo library, all the tags, all the faces,

⏹️ ▶️ John all the locations, all the edits, all the crops, that’s gotta be preserved 100%.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m hoping things like, what about all my book projects? What about all my like albums? What about all my slideshows?

⏹️ ▶️ John I hope, I really hope all of that transfers intact to the shared

⏹️ ▶️ John library. If it doesn’t, I’m gonna be kind of sad because I make all these photo books and everything and I save the projects

⏹️ ▶️ John in what was iPhoto and now is Photos. Because what if I wanna ever get one of those books reprinted,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? That’s the whole point of digital stuff. If I have it all saved, I have the original photos, I have the book, I have the layout,

⏹️ ▶️ John as long as that is supported, I should be able to print that book again if a book gets damaged

⏹️ ▶️ John or lost or something happens to it or whatever. But if I can’t transfer those books into the shared library, if only

⏹️ ▶️ John the photos go there, but now the books are stranded in the original library, but the photos that were in the book

⏹️ ▶️ John are gone. That’s going to make me sad if keywords don’t go over, if any of the edits don’t go over, like

⏹️ ▶️ John if things get corrupted when they go over, if I lose the raw version, so I lose HDR like

⏹️ ▶️ John I really hope this is what it seems like, which is full fidelity, all metadata being

⏹️ ▶️ John able to transfer between any individual library and a shared library. So fingers crossed, but I’m super

⏹️ ▶️ John happy that they’ve finally done it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to be fair, they did specifically call out that edits, deletions, captions, and keywords that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would all be synced, that that would all be part of this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but when they gave that list, I’m like, well, but what about book projects?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John What about albums? What about slideshows? Like there’s all the things they didn’t list, so we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, the thing with iCloud Shared Photo Library, Like in principle, I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey super stoked for this because Aaron, you know, the, the way things have worked out in our family is very similar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to what you’re talking about, John, in that I have the, you know, the, the, the source

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of record, uh, photo library and Aaron, I just make sure that she has the last like month

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or so photos, which normally is all she would ever refer to, but it stinks for her. If she wants to go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey back in time to a while ago, she has to come find me and tell me, Oh, can you find me a picture that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of such and such around such and such a time, blah, blah, blah. Like it would be so much better for her if she could just go back in time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The thing with iCloud shared photo library that worries me is I’m really, really scared that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be some very, very odd limitations to it. I don’t know what those would be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey specifically, but it wouldn’t surprise me if like, there’s no way to get a bunch of old photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in there or, you know, like you said, your albums and things don’t come across the way you want them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to. Also, like I was sort of talking to a friend of mine earlier And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he was saying that he’s really excited to have his niece and pictures of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey her in a shared photo library with his parents, the niece’s grandparents, and the niece’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actual parents. But I don’t think that’s what this is for. This is, I think, only within a family sharing unit, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t necessarily what everyone would want. It’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco for me. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s set up to five people, too. So if you have four kids and two parents, you’re out

⏹️ ▶️ John of luck. Well, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. I’m not sure you want to share this with the kids. One of the things they mentioned was that everyone can edit

⏹️ ▶️ John and have full access. And I don’t want my kids to have full edit access to the photo library. They’ll just go through it and delete

⏹️ ▶️ John all the pictures of themselves that they don’t like. And that’s not,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like tough luck, right? It’s really, you know, it depends on, everyone can define their family how they want. And the five

⏹️ ▶️ John person limitation, there’s limitations on the size of the Apple family thing anyway, which is itself a problem

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s like, they should be a little bit more flexible than they are, but maybe there’s server side limitations or whatever. But for my

⏹️ ▶️ John personal use, it’s probably just gonna be shared between my wife and I. And it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s enough for us to, because we’re the organizers of the libraries anyway, and the kids have their own photos,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s all just like them and their friends and pictures of the dog and other stuff like that, that are their

⏹️ ▶️ John own private photos anyway. Occasionally there is some sharing. I will chuck down photos that

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I would like, if I could, I would like to give my kids read-only access to the family library, because they

⏹️ ▶️ John ask me for, you know, pictures from this event, or, you know, do you have pictures of me when I was in fifth

⏹️ ▶️ John grade or whatever, I have to go find it and airdrop it to them. Whereas if I could just give them read-only access to the Family Photo Library,

⏹️ ▶️ John that would be great, but I don’t want to give them full edit access just to avoid any accidental or

⏹️ ▶️ John on-purpose destructive operations.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s almost as though you need a read-only photo gallery. Just gonna leave that there. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not gonna help.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can you make a Peek-a-View support 145,000 photos in a shared

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey library? Get on

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, hypothetically, Peek-a-View supports whatever library you throw at it, but I take your point, and no thank you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We talked to, next was privacy, and they talked a lot about safety

⏹️ ▶️ Casey check. I don’t feel qualified to talk about this, but I will say that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am pleased that this is a thing. I’m pleased that they spent time talking about it, especially since

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple to me has a somewhat Disney kind of aura about them, where they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really don’t like talking about anything negative or anything that’s not gonna make you smile. And this is not a happy thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they spent time on it. And I’m happy for it. And so what this allows you to do is it’s tools

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get, to help you get away from abusive relationship, especially like emergency reset,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which stops sharing your location, it resets your privacy permissions. It signs you out of iCloud on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey every device except the one that’s in your hand and messages in FaceTime are only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey left on the device that’s in your hand. So one of the things they explicitly said, which is true in my family, I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if it is in y’all’s, but you know, Erin knows my password, I know her password for like her phone and things of that nature. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I always, always, always ask her before I can use her, before I grab her phone and use it. She does the same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me. But if our relationship was different, like there’s nothing stopping me from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey opening up her phone and doing whatever I want to it. And so this is very, very cool

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that they seem to have, from what I can tell, they seem to have really thought this out. And they certainly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they enumerated a list of organizations that they’ve been working on this with. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is super cool. and I hope that no one ever needs it, but I suspect many people will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is the kind of thing, I was so happy to see this because, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re lucky if we have never had to deal with anything like this, or known anybody who had to deal with anything like this,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but this is a real problem that, if you think about, if you’re in an abusive relationship

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you have to get out quickly, which is usually how that has to happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are so many ways in our digital lives where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an abuser who was your partner before could have access to your digital accounts in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some way, have access to your iCloud account, have you in the family group, have you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the one who purchased all your iTunes goods or whatever, so you’re in their credit card system, you are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sharing location with them, that’s a huge one, obviously, for obvious reasons, like location sharing, location

⏹️ ▶️ Marco access, being able to track where you might have gone or what you might be doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with access to your Apple ID and other forms, seeing any messages that are sent to you, that’s obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a big security risk in this kind of situation. So the fact that Apple even thought about this as a problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and tackled it in what appears to be a pretty good comprehensive way, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fantastic to see. And it’s exactly the kind of thing that, I couldn’t imagine any other tech company

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing this before Apple did. And now to have this be something that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can offer in a really horrible time in people’s lives that they need dramatic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amounts of help. And the risks are very high if anything goes wrong in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this kind of situation. And so to have this be a tool at their disposal is great.

⏹️ ▶️ John Kind of like shared photo libraries, this is also an issue that people have been talking about for a decade or more.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ll put a link in the show notes to a tweet from Jackie Chang where she talks about an article that she wrote 10 years ago and also a talk that

⏹️ ▶️ John she gave on this very topic. And it was relevant then, and it continues to be relevant now. And

⏹️ ▶️ John she was kind of like her follow up tweet. On the one hand, progress is slow. On the other hand, at least Apple is making some

⏹️ ▶️ John really impactful updates. Probably because they themselves have had to help victims do all

⏹️ ▶️ John of these things. This has been a thing that’s been going on forever. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re in the situation, you have Apple devices, I can imagine contacting Apple and trying to go through the support and be like,

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s my situation. Can you help me? Can you do this? Can you do that? And I’m sure they wanna be helpful, but it’s the type of thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that without this feature built into the OS, It’s very difficult to sort of do piecemeal or

⏹️ ▶️ John to expect people to have the wherewithal to sit on hold or to have the person on the other end of the phone understand

⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re doing. So this is another long overdue change and it’s good to see

⏹️ ▶️ John motion in the right direction, but this has been a problem for as long as we’ve had smartphones.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey They talked about the Home app and they made mention of Matter, which is the new technology that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That Apple has been has had a hand in developing. That’s supposed to be the one true smart home technology

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In principle and I don’t know a lot about this and I’m gonna be watching my friend Eric We landers channel to see what he has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to say about all this Because he does a lot of smart home stuff over on YouTube. I’ll put a link in the show notes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but um, but But apparently Matter is based on HomeKit,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is news to me and deeply frightening because HomeKit does not work that well. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, maybe I misheard them, maybe I misunderstood, but I’m a little bit worried about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t miss here, they actually said, we contributed HomeKit as the foundation of this new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco standard. Now, that being said, I’ve had mixed experience with HomeKit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. The actual like straight up HomeKit devices that are made for HomeKit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything, like Secure Video and everything, and the Lutron Caseta integration, like all that stuff has actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been pretty rock solid for me. Where you start getting into trouble with HomeKit is when you have all these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weird bridges or updates to things that were never designed for it, and you start adding complexity,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you’re running a Raspberry Pi somewhere with a HomeKit bridge to these other devices that never supported it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the kind of stuff that tends to get people into trouble. But the actual core HomeKit features, for me have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually been pretty reliable.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s more about the protocol and the requirements of devices to be, back in the early days of HomeKit, it was like, oh, it’s too annoying

⏹️ ▶️ John to support HomeKit because we have to be so secure and closed off and do a bunch of stuff that

⏹️ ▶️ John requires expensive chips and it’s much easier to use these cheaper standards and HomeKit had a lot of barrier to entry. So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John hoping when they say HomeKit is the foundation, they just mean the sort of underlying security requirements stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John which at this point should be the bar for anybody doing any smart home stuff. But in the early days, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit more of just like Wild West, do whatever you want, make it work. I don’t know. Yeah, Matter, we’ve talked about this in past

⏹️ ▶️ John shows. Sounds great, show me the products. Show me the products working better in our current products.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, the next section of the keynote, I get this feeling like this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is one of those sections that sitting here today, we’re like, wow, that’s kind of weird and interesting, but maybe in a few

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years, this might be a really, really, really, really big deal. And believe it or not, that section is CarPlay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. Who had that on their bingo card?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not me. So, they’re saying that, or the big piece I took away from this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that CarPlay is in the future and I think they said there the announcements won’t even come

⏹️ ▶️ Casey until late next year of whatever models will support this but CarPlay will take over

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything. I’m talking about your instrument cluster, your main

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like infotainment display, everything. Speedometer, tachometer,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gear change, like all of that will be displayed in a CarPlay powered

⏹️ ▶️ Casey display or series of displays, they want to take over everything. I think they, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exact quote powers the entirement instrument cluster. Like that is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wild. And I mean, I’m here for it if it actually works and car play for the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey most part, it’s been pretty good for me. Uh, it hasn’t been flawless, but it’s been pretty good. And I really liked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the idea of having a software company. Actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be in charge of doing the software for my car. Yet at the same time, I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not at all keen on a software company being in charge of some of the critical pieces

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the software for my car. Because I almost want that to be done by someone who is much more familiar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a real-time system and so on and so forth. But one way or another, I am very intrigued

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by this and I’m very curious to see where this goes. And some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guy I follow on Twitter, I think his name is John Syracuse, I had a very funny quip about this. And I believe that that person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, is this the first time that Apple shipped anything from Project Titan? And it sure seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it might be.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I’m not as enthused about this. Like you would imagine an Apple car would look like this. If Apple had a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey car and they

⏹️ ▶️ John had the inside of it, it would have stuff like this in it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I think this raises the interesting question of like, if they can actually get anybody to do this, do they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really need to make their own car? Like, isn’t this like 80% of the value of them making a car?

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe, but here’s the thing. You just talked about how the problem with HomeKit was when you sort of have kind of a bridging

⏹️ ▶️ John thing to some other device. It was never made to support HomeKit. These cars have to work without a phone in

⏹️ ▶️ John them. So they have to have their own interface. And that’s been true of cars with screens. It’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, they’ve got their own thing. But when you do CarPlay, CarPlay overlays one of the screens with its own thing. And then maybe there’s like around

⏹️ ▶️ John the bottom and sides, you see the rest of your interface, but there’s a section, it’s like Flash on the webpages. A rectangle

⏹️ ▶️ John on this dashboard that is owned by Apple now. and they put their crap there, but the rest of the stuff is there. But the car has

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to. Well, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not it. It depends. So like on my car, on the Volkswagen, this screen is 100%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey taken over by CarPlay. There are still physical buttons around it, because my car is old enough that buttons still existed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it was built. But there are physical buttons around it. But the entire screen area gets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey taken over by CarPlay. This is in contrast to Aaron’s Volvo, which is exactly what you described, where the top half

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or maybe even 2 thirds is the Volvo stock UI. And then they put the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ Casey third to one half is completely taken over by CarPlay.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. But, but still it’s like that, that thing that it took over, you need to be able to drive the

⏹️ ▶️ John car without an iPhone. So there has to be a user interface to, to operate the

⏹️ ▶️ John car, all features of the car. There. And if you’re going to take this Apple thing and say

⏹️ ▶️ John like the thing that they showed, we’re going to overlay, not just your main screen, but also

⏹️ ▶️ John your instrument instrument cluster and like, you know, sometimes when you still have either physical or the other

⏹️ ▶️ John non CarPlay controls, that’s for things like HVAC and the lights and the wipers like, oh, by the

⏹️ ▶️ John way, we want to do that as well. So it would be silly for you to keep those things visible from your interface because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be in our interface. So basically, why don’t you let us cut paper wallpaper over your entire

⏹️ ▶️ John interface? So that’s I feel like that’s not great because

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I what is the interface to my car? Does Does every car have to come with two interfaces and Apple all plays over the entire

⏹️ ▶️ John thing? The second thing is, I am a strong proponent of not having every single feature

⏹️ ▶️ John of the car be on a touchscreen. But Apple can’t put physical controls in my car. All they can do is

⏹️ ▶️ John display things on a screen with CarPlay. And so they’re never going to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John to make an interface that works well with my car,

⏹️ ▶️ John in like sort of built in cooperation with the people making the car. We just talked about it last time, having physical controls

⏹️ ▶️ John in sync with the on-screen controls, not having the same button in two different places,

⏹️ ▶️ John deciding which things should be physical, which things should be on-screen, which things should be hybrid. That’s the job

⏹️ ▶️ John of designing the interface to a car. And I think the correct way to do that is not,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are no more physical buttons and everything is on touchscreens, but that’s the only thing Apple can do because they can only

⏹️ ▶️ John put images on a screen unless they make their own car or unless they work hand-in-hand with the car maker, right? And then

⏹️ ▶️ John finally, I would say that Apple’s forte over the past decade or so of user

⏹️ ▶️ John interface has not been in making interfaces that are good at conveying lots of information

⏹️ ▶️ John and are easy to see. Like, I’m just picturing, I mean, they showed lots of pictures of it, and it looked okay, but like, when I think

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple interface, I think small, low contrast text that I can’t read, minimalism that hides information that I wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John see, and, you know, mystery meat that I have to mouse over.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of rectangles that all look the same with a lot of text you have to read.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, right. And not, you know, the one thing Apple has going for them is the car makers themselves are also not great

⏹️ ▶️ John at this, but they’re getting better in fits and starts. So I am not jazzed about this. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John jazzed about the idea of having essentially iOS apps on my car screen, you know, so I can put up ways in like

⏹️ ▶️ John CarPlay as it sort of exists, slightly expanded. I do not want Apple trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John paint over a button-based UI for my entire car inside my car, over

⏹️ ▶️ John the top of the interface for my car that has to be there so I can drive without my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I sort of agree with you, but I think the problem is that you and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me are holding on to this desire and hope that the future is not 100% touchscreens,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it seems pretty clear to me that the future is 100% touchscreens.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it’s not. I mean, you see car makers bringing back physical controls. They’re bouncing

⏹️ ▶️ John back, aside from Tesla or whatever. The reason, like when Ford came out with this, they put, I mean, Ford’s doing it in a ham-fisted way,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they put a big physical dial in the middle of their screen as sort of a statement of saying we believe that

⏹️ ▶️ John there is still a place for physical controls. Again, do we want to steer with the touchscreen? Everything is not going to the touchscreen.

⏹️ ▶️ John Should the pedals be touchscreen? You have to take off your socks and use your toes on them? Like physical controls,

⏹️ ▶️ John as long as we are physical beings, physical controls must exist. And a touchscreen is itself a physical control. It

⏹️ ▶️ John is just one that has specific use cases for which it is the best choice. And many of the

⏹️ ▶️ John things you need to do in the car, touchscreen is not the best choice. They will always be some kind of hybrid.

⏹️ ▶️ John Until we’re not driving them at all, there will always be some hybrid of physical and touch controls.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if all Apple is doing is putting things on screens, they can’t participate in that synergy as well as I think

⏹️ ▶️ John they should be able to. You know, if they made their own car, presumably they would work all this out. Or if they work closely

⏹️ ▶️ John with the maker of a specific car, presumably they would work this out. But if they just say, Oh, get into any one of your cars

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’ll take over every single visible screen with an interface that has no awareness of what car it’s in, I give that a big

⏹️ ▶️ John thumbs down.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I mean, to be fair, like, you know, I think there’s a couple of things that might, you know, tame this a little bit. So number one,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most cars that have screens, even the ones that are having multiple screens, not even the ones that are replacing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their gauge cluster with a screen, they usually still also have physical controls. And so there’s nothing precluding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this from being touch screen available from certain controls, but also having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some knobs somewhere that you can use to adjust it. You know, that’s what my, you know, my Model S has that where like, there are certain controls

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you can access through physical knobs and stuff or on the touch screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s where you get into the conflict thing we talked about in the last show, every screen you show on the touchscreen invites an opportunity

⏹️ ▶️ John for conflict and forces the physical design to be stateless in a way that

⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t appropriate. All you’re doing is trying to work around the fact, oh, I know this control is gonna be up on the Apple thing, and so we’ll get out

⏹️ ▶️ John of sync if I don’t make this a recentering stateless switch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, fair enough, but still, having physical controls, even stateless ones, is still pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. But anyway, I think what’s ultimately going to avoid the future

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you are fearing here is I just don’t see a lot of car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makers being willing to admit to themselves, our UI design sucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so badly that we wanna outsource the entire control of this to Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ John But they can’t unless they require you to have a phone and you to drive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, right, but they would still have it. But like, I can’t imagine that many car makers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually making the kind of car Apple wants them to make, where they really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do let Apple take over every single screen completely. That to me is very optimistic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thinking. So the way I look at this is much more like a concept car. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is Apple’s concept car. Like this is a great thing in theory that could be really cool if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it ever comes out. I’d be shocked if not only does it come out at all, but that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s anything like what they have proposed here in practice. Because I think what you’re relying on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is car makers who do suck at UI design. I mean, but let’s be honest,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re terrible at it. and Apple is better at it than them usually, but that car makers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be so, you know, self-reflective enough to recognize how much they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suck at it and to be willing to give up control over the identity of their cars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the user experience of how they look, 100% to Apple, I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not really gonna happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and to be clear, I think it is a good idea for Apple to be able to not just display on the

⏹️ ▶️ John screen that they display on now, but to also be able to take over the instrument cluster. And Marco, you said like cars that are moving to

⏹️ ▶️ John screens and instrument clusters, that is all of them. You know, it doesn’t mean they’re gonna have touch screens for everything, but

⏹️ ▶️ John all instrument clusters are moving to screens. Because that’s a good use of screens. You’re not gonna touch it anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you wanna be able to have different gauges. And sometimes you wanna see the map there, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to be fair, most car makers are terrible at designing those things. They are awful.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it depends. Like there’s, some of them are getting better. I feel like where a lot of car makers fall down

⏹️ ▶️ John is in the rest of the stuff. Like in just, you know, the boring things about like adjusting your seats and their desire to have weird,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, 80s or I don’t know, 2001 web 2.0 swoopy gradients and stuff. It’s like, what are you doing? Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John so Apple probably would do better than them there. But that’s small potatoes. That’s not the really

⏹️ ▶️ John important stuff. But then on top of all that is all the specific things that every particular car does. Lots of cars have

⏹️ ▶️ John very specific features and stuff and Apple’s not, you know, messing with the drive train or controlling the ABS or anything like that. And those

⏹️ ▶️ John features need to be exposed in some way and Apple can’t really be aware of them. And even if a car company did want

⏹️ ▶️ John to work with Apple that closely. I don’t think they would, it’s just too much work to expose every individual feature of every individual car

⏹️ ▶️ John through this Apple interface. And by the way, we still have to make our own interface because people need to be able to drive without an iPhone. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, we’ll see what comes of this. Like it was so far out in the future, you know, end of 2023 models

⏹️ ▶️ John might have something like this. But I don’t, if they

⏹️ ▶️ John do this, the first car that does this, it’s going to be a lot like the Tesla model where it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you like everything to be all on screens and you want those screens to all be controlled by Apple, there’s one car that does it, but

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s probably not gonna be the deciding factor in you buying it because there’s so much more to a car than what shows up on the

⏹️ ▶️ John screens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s interesting though. I can see it going any number of ways, And so time will tell.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Fitness Plus no longer requires, or the fitness app, excuse me, no longer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey requires an Apple Watch, which is exciting for a certain John Siracusa.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that was a good turnaround time. One episode and they fixed it for me. I heard the episode and it was shoved into the… I do

⏹️ ▶️ John wonder why they did that, though. I guess it’s just total coincidence. I had no foreknowledge of this or whatever, and I just happened to be

⏹️ ▶️ John annoyed by this feature that has existed forever and then they fixed it. But, you know, it makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John I want to see how that’s implemented. Does that mean when I upgrade to iOS 16 slash iPodOS 16, and I’ll just have the fitness

⏹️ ▶️ John app because that’s what all the help docs said. It’s like, oh, it’s already installed in your phone or already installed in your iPad. I was like, no, it isn’t, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John see it anywhere. So we’ll see how it goes, but thumbs up for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. One thing before we move on to watchOS stuff, I did want to briefly cover one thing they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very quickly mentioned for the iOS section, and it’s actually part of all their OSs, I believe now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s something called rapid security response. I want to learn more about what this means,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it sounds kind of like some kind of faster and possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more forceful or more automatic way to install security patches. So I don’t know if this is something like an extension to XProtect,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where Apple can just silently disable a binary remotely on all their computers without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issuing a software update, if some malware gets out of control. If it’s something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, or if it’s something more like how, like on Android, one of the ways Google gets around

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too many problems with their horrendous software uptake rate, they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moved a huge amount of Android’s logic and libraries and stuff to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing called Google Play Services, which they can update much more frequently and easily than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the actual base Android operating system that things are running on. So I wonder if this is something, like, kind of in that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco vein where maybe Apple is moving certain security processes into something they can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of force update without an OS update actually occurring. Maybe something like that, I’m not sure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do want to hear more about this in the future as we learn more about it.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. All right, so watch OS 9, there’s going to be a remastered

⏹️ ▶️ Casey astronomy face, and I could hear your scream of excitement from here, Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When they said, you know, here we are, we’re expecting like, hey, maybe this is the year of custom watch faces, or maybe they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just give us one giant complication so we can make our own kind of that way. And instead, Kevlin goes up there and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s like, we have four Four new faces. We’ve remastered the astronomy face, a new lunar face,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco playtime, which… And then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Metropolitan, where the font stretches out if you twist the crown. Oh my God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Why don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey fun?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. Come on, Marko.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Apple Watch face situation is playtime. It’s like, what are they doing? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re just playing around. This is what the people

⏹️ ▶️ John want. They give the people what they want. Is it? Is it really what the people

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco want? I really

⏹️ ▶️ John just want pictures of their kids. But either way, I feel like if you don’t want to use these faces, don’t use them. I mean, what are you getting?

⏹️ ▶️ John Do they take away your solar face that you like?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I don’t think so. I don’t think they ever take away faces.

⏹️ ▶️ John If these are just added in addition to it, it’s fine. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s just like, is there anybody working full-time on Apple Watch faces?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, do they have any full-time employees doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John this? I honestly want to know. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sure. They just had a cool astronomy face where it goes and zooms in on the Earth and shows the clouds and everything. That’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if that’s what you want, is a good implementation of that thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I mean, frankly, I’ve almost given up because like, you know, I do wear the watch much more now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I have in previous years. I wear it almost every day for most of the day now. And I just use,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the heck is this, Infograph? Infograph Modular is a face I use. And I just, I cover it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with complications, one of which is my own in the big center spot, this custom thing I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made that kind of approximates the solar face. And I just, I cover the whole thing. I was like, okay, we’re gonna make this an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco information display, not an attractive watch face because Apple is not capable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of making attractive watch faces, and they refuse to let us make our own, and that is continuing. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know, I thought Metropolitan looked pretty good at a glance. I mean, the whole stretchy font thing was a little bit weird, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought in general it looked good. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway. We’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey leave that aside for now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s a hard disagree in case anyone was unable to determine what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Mark

⏹️ ▶️ Marco meant there. I mean, there were a couple of interesting comments. Kevin said that they’re bringing rich

⏹️ ▶️ Marco complications to more faces. So what I assume this means is, back when they made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the transition from the Apple Watch Series 3, which is no longer supported, even though it’s still for sale, which is funny,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but so that’s great that we can, Series 3 support has dropped from watchOS 9. Thank God we can stop supporting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it soon in our apps. Anyway, so they’re bringing rich complications. So when they went from Series 3

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Series 4 and they rounded the corners of the screen and everything, They also, I think, added more RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The processor became 64-bit. It was a pretty big upgrade, and that allowed them to make complications multicolor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and have those new circular ones that have the different, you know, it’s much more rich complication design.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Those complications are also able to be written in SwiftUI as of, I think, last year or the year before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, as I mentioned earlier, the new widget API to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home screen widgets on the iPhone, you now use that same code to make widgets for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch. So they’ve modernized much about the widgets that are existing there. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it sounds like they’re bringing that capability to more watch faces, maybe the older ones that predated the Series

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 4’s introduction that previously only had plain text complications, maybe that’s now, more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of those can possibly be these new colorful modern ones. So all of that, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all good. Those are all good, solid updates to complications. So I’m glad to see that. Complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco needed updates, so that’s great, especially the ability to now use the same code with iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lock screen, which is that’s fantastic. The actual watch faces, I think they’re gonna keep just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of doing something to us around on those that I just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve given up on that. They’re never gonna give me good watch faces. They cannot design themselves to save their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lives, at least if they have hands. So, oh, well, I’m giving up on that. I’m gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just dive straight into continuing my use of Infograph modular and covering it with complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I can possibly make.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. There’s also going to be a share sheet in Photos Picker APIs on the watch. I’m not sure why

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s super useful, but I encourage them to make the watch more functional, so that’s cool. They spent some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time talking about workouts. They had a really interesting discussion about how to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey running metrics from just what your wrist is doing, which I thought was pretty cool. They’re doing heart rate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey zones during workouts. You can do custom workouts. able to detect triathlons and fitness,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like I said earlier, for all iPhone users. But it’s only the move or red ring. They don’t have anything to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do with standing and they don’t have anything to do with exercise. It’s only the red ring, but still thought that was neat.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, they talked about some health stuff, including, uh, some really interesting work they’re doing with sleep. Uh, they’re talking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about heart health and AFib history, and they’re doing a lot of work with medications and tracking your medications,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote, discreetly and conveniently quote. So logging, reminders, using a camera to scan your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pill bottles to enter them. They’re talking about drug to drug interactions, including like between medications and alcohol, for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey example, all good work. Anything else on iOS before we talk the Mac?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, all of that stuff is great. Like the workout app looks like it has a lot of good stuff for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco runners. I might try some of that myself. The AFib stuff is great. I mean, this is something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like, like I’ve known people in real life who have problems with AFib. And I’ve recommended whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve heard anybody with this, I’ve told them like, hey, you should consider getting one of the recent Apple watches because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the AFib detection is really useful if you have that condition, it’s very, very useful. And so to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco AFib history, which they said, we expect to receive FDA clearance soon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the AFib history feature. So that means they don’t have it yet. So that means the AFib history feature might not launch on a particular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco timeline that we’re expecting, but we’ll see. But if, assuming that clears the FDA

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at some point, that’s a great feature. That can really make a big difference in people’s lives. That’s a fantastic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. I’m very, very glad they’re doing that.

⏹️ ▶️ John The medication thing kind of reminds me of the, when they had like menstrual cycle tracking, it’s like, geez, finally, like

⏹️ ▶️ John what kind of health related things do huge portions of the population have to deal

⏹️ ▶️ John with? And so, yeah, medications, people take them, they exist. The health app should help you

⏹️ ▶️ John manage them. Not that, you know, there’s plenty of third-party apps that do it or whatever, but if they’re going to build in this health system,

⏹️ ▶️ John improving the ability to, you know, keep track of what you’re taking, remind you to take them. It’s just, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a no brainer. I’m glad they finally got around to adding that.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. So we got a bunch of hardware, maybe not a bunch, but we got some hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we got an M2, which I think we all thought was possible, but personally,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t think it was likely for today. But sure enough, we got an M2. We got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a second gen Apple Silicon processor, 20 billion transistors,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 25% more than the M1, 100 gigs a second memory bandwidth, which is 50% more than M1. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey memory limit for the unified RAM has increased to 24 gigabytes, 8-core CPU for high performance

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for efficiency, 18% greater performance over M1, a 10-core GPU, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is between 25 and 35% faster than M1, 40% faster neural engine,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 8K, H.264 and HEVC, ProRes media engine. And all of this is going to start out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in, as we did expect, the new MacBook Air. We didn’t expect it for today, but we did expect that would be where the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M2 launched, and sure enough, it did. quick air, quick highlights.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I could pass it. Let me talk about the M2 first. Oh, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John sure. So if you have been following the rumors, it’s kind of difficult to tell from the presentation. So is this

⏹️ ▶️ John the M1 Plus and they just put the M2 name on it or whatever? Because we don’t have all the details of this, but

⏹️ ▶️ John honestly, it doesn’t really matter much. Like the one thing that, the main thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John determines the performance of this chip is the process, right? And it’s still five nanometer. It’s a newer five

⏹️ ▶️ John nanometer one. I think it’s the, whatever it’s called, N5P or whatever that they use for

⏹️ ▶️ John the A16 maybe, or the, I don’t remember, anyway, it’s not three nanometers

⏹️ ▶️ John is the point, right? So you’re not going to see some huge decrease in power consumption or whatever because

⏹️ ▶️ John the previous chip was, the M1 is five nanometers and this one is also five nanometers. It’s just slightly better five nanometers.

⏹️ ▶️ John So to the extent that this uses less power while doing the same thing, that is the improvements

⏹️ ▶️ John in the five nanometer process and maybe some small improvements to the architecture. But beyond that,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you were looking for a chip that is one better than the M1, it would look a lot like the M2.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a little bit bigger, not much, but it’s a little bit bigger. It’s got a little bit more stuff in it, and

⏹️ ▶️ John more GPU cores can support more RAM. The things that are in it are a little bit faster,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re not 1% or 2% faster. They’re significant bumps for a chip that

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re not even sure if it’s even using any different cores than the other one. It might even be using the same cores as the M1, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s using also a five nanometer process, albeit a revised one. This M2

⏹️ ▶️ John is completely worthy of the name M2, even though it’s not three nanometers and even though it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have double the number of cores or whatever. Like I’m completely satisfied with this M2 being

⏹️ ▶️ John one more than the M1. I did love the part later in the presentation when Craig made fun of the crack

⏹️ ▶️ John marketing team with their triumph of naming the M1 and the M2. But honestly, within Apple, it is a triumph to have

⏹️ ▶️ John a sane naming scheme for more than a few years in a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco row. So

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll see how they go with this. We’ll see what the thing in the Mac Pro ends up being called than if they just sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of lose the plot and end up calling it the XP79. In

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all fairness, we do have the M1 Max, which is not the largest and maximum chip in the M1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John line. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John The naming team eventually gets too far over their skis and has a problem. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John but this M2, I think it’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ John Would have been better in three nanometers, fine, but Apple can’t make that happen if three nanometer isn’t ready,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And three nanometer will be nice for an M3 some year. So, you know, this,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a little, you know, we talked about this before, it’s a little bit weird that Apple’s most powerful

⏹️ ▶️ John computers have an M1 something in them and now Apple’s least powerful computers

⏹️ ▶️ John will have an M2 something in them, but that’s just what we talked about before, the nature of the way you

⏹️ ▶️ John roll out chips. You don’t start with the biggest one, you start with the smallest one

⏹️ ▶️ John you work your way up to the higher power one. So I think this will just be the cadence from now on.

⏹️ ▶️ John And looking at, you know, without knowing the details of the ship and just looking at the specs, I think it is a worthy

⏹️ ▶️ John successor to the M1, which was already fantastic, and this seems equally fantastic, just maybe, you know, 10, 15% more. Yeah.

MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So new MacBook Air quick highlights huge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco applause by the way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mag safe with two USB C connections 20% reduction volume

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 11.3 millimeters thick which is less than a half an inch to a little over two and a half pounds four colors including

⏹️ ▶️ Casey starlight Excuse me midnight, which looks like the spiritual successor to the black book and a holy crap.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It looks good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco master I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pete high impedance audio jack 13.6 inch liquid

⏹️ ▶️ Casey retina display as mentioned with the notch, 500 nits which is 25% brighter, a 1080p camera with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 2x low light performance, 4 speaker sound system, spatial audio, a quote silent fanless design

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote, first party compact 2 port power adapter is available,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey although I think I saw Quinn mention it was only like 35 watts or something like that, and then you can fast charge on the 67

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watt adapter to 50% in 30 minutes, and this is starting at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how much? $1,200. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re keeping the M1 Air, the outbound, they’re keeping it in the lineup just as we do with the iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at a thousand bucks. And this is $1,200.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s still a good computer. By the way, the power adapter, if you scroll way down in the show notes, I think you’ll see a picture

⏹️ ▶️ John of that power adapter. Yeah, it was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco rumored. It was another

⏹️ ▶️ John one of those rumors that leaked and turned out

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco to be dead on. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was something we never got to, but from like weeks or months ago, we scrolled down in our document, and we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, that’s that power adapter that just announced today.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s interesting that

⏹️ ▶️ John they give you a choice of the power adapters. Like, if you buy the expensive MacBook Air, you get your

⏹️ ▶️ John choice of which power adapter you want. If you buy the cheaper one, you have to pay extra for the fancier ones. It’s, you know, anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John So Marco, tell us what these things are like in real life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the colors, I think, are the first and most obvious thing. One thing, we did not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get the array of colors that was rumored, like last year, when they first started rumors of the new MacBook Air.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we also did not get the whitish or white screen bezel and keyboard,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I think ultimately would have looked really cool and modern. And I kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wish they had that, you know, like it would have made them look more like the new iMac, the small iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You know?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I kind of like the way they look now. I mean, I get what you’re saying. I think they would have looked great if they were sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John the, you know, iMac to go like the original iBook was, but they’re clearly not that. And

⏹️ ▶️ John so, you know, I’m not a big fan of the white bezels and certainly not

⏹️ ▶️ John a fan of white keyboards. It’s just, they don’t seem to hold, you know, they don’t stay white for long.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe they still will go with that at some point, but, you know, what they went with is,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, the safe choice for a laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and I think part of the reason why they did it, I think, is because, you know, the new AirScreen has a notch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so far all of our notches have been black, and I think making the notch in white,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would reveal, like, the cutouts of exactly where the camera and stuff is in the top, and I think it would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be uglier and more distracting possibly. So my guess is that’s why they didn’t go that direction is because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at whatever point the decision was made that this is gonna be a notch display, that probably knocked that possibility right out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of camera on the notch, better camera than a $1,600 Apple Studio display?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, well that’s not hard. I mean, you know. Oh, and by the way, there’s that whole feature about using your phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John camera. We’ll get to that in a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. Anyway, so the MacBook Air, so I got to look at them, I played with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them except for the blue one, but I got to look at the other ones and I saw the blue one from a few feet away.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I will say the gray and silver ones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the space gray and silver look exactly like you’d expect. One thing that is different about them compared to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pro is that the MacBook Pro has like the black keyboard well around the keys.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The MacBook Air, that keyboard well is metal. So it’s just like it has been from laptops

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of yesteryear. the space between the keys has the body color of the metal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it doesn’t look as modern as the MacBook Pro does. It still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looks slightly, I wouldn’t say old, but it looks overall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less exciting. When the iMac came out, it looked so exciting because it was so fresh and new,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you had all these colors, and you had all the white accents and everything. It just looked light and fresh and colorful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The new MacBook Air does not look that way. It looks like a low-end MacBook Pro. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, it still looks good, but it does not have that excitement of, ooh, look at the way that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing looks. It feels fantastic. Like when you pick it up, it feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like nothing. It feels weightless. You can pick it up one-handed because it has like, you know, the good new foot design.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You pick it up one-handed, you can lift the screen lid one-handed, the whole bottom won’t come up with it, although

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just barely. You can tell like the weight balance, they achieved that, but just barely.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it just, it feels fantastic to handle. Just really great in the hand.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The colors, as I said, I think I would probably go either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Starlight, which is the new gold, which is nothing like the old gold. You know, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old gold one was so bright, it was almost orange in certain lighting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This one, the Starlight is very much like a very pale, you know, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s, I think it’s the same color as the Apple Watch that has the same name. and I think the, doesn’t the iPhone base model

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t they have the same names? Anyway, so this is, you know, Apple’s new, or Apple’s current

⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors for their low-end devices. So space gray looks just as boring as it always has.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Silver looks classic and it’s probably what I’d go for. The, you know, starlight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this pale gold. And then the midnight, which what everybody wants to hear about is the dark blue. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very dark. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s dark blue?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Midnight is a- Oh, I did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John not catch that. Midnight,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, you didn’t get that? It’s a very dark navy blue. In a lot of lighting, it’s gonna look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco black.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, duh, this is the blue one you were talking about at the top of the show. It didn’t even cross my mind that these are one and the same.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Holy jim-illies. Yeah, now I feel like an idiot, but it did not even cross my mind, because it looks to me to be black.

⏹️ ▶️ John I kept wondering why you kept saying there’s like the black book. It’s like you realized it’s dark blue,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I didn’t realize it was dark. I’m an idiot, but I didn’t realize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In non-bright lighting, it does look black. It’s very dark. And it’s so dark

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you barely even see the Apple logo on the screen lid, like unless the lighting catches it exactly, like it’s very,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very dark. And I hate to tell you, Casey, it’s a fingerprint magnet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, really? That’s too bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it really, really is. And that, it was so fingerprinty when it like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t see it as much on like the main keyboard deck, but you see it a lot on the screen lid. You know, if you see the back of it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it’s closed. Yeah, and they were like, you know, they had handlers. When

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple has the hands-on areas, there’s like a handler at each hardware piece. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after each person handles it, they wipe it down, like, you know, just for sanitary reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So even with that level of, you know, pretty consistently cleaning it, there were a lot of noticeable fingerprints

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on it. So we’ll see how it is, you know, in practice in the real world, but it’s pretty fingerprinty, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s darker than you think it is. Like, whatever you see in pictures, think of it looking almost black.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is very, very dark in person. You don’t see the Apple logo on the back very well, and it gets very fingerprinty.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So frankly, I don’t think I would buy it, just for that alone, but a lot of people thought it looked cool who weren’t me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, that’s a bummer. It’s interesting that this, the limitations that are in the air, right? So obviously they remove

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the limitations because we mentioned that MagSafe now, which means that you don’t have to take up one of your USB-C ports with power,

⏹️ ▶️ John assuming you have your MagSafe connector with you or you can use them if you need to. So that’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ John Something I saw fly by on Twitter that it looked like it was screenshot from Apple thing, still only one support for

⏹️ ▶️ John one external monitor, which seems like a weird limitation. Like maybe it’s, I think we

⏹️ ▶️ John went a couple of rounds on this before I don’t remember the resolution. Is it like a limitation on the M1

⏹️ ▶️ John that it was just inherited by the M2? Is it a silly software limitation? Really, you can have more than one screen if you buy an

⏹️ ▶️ John adapter, but it just seems like a, it seems like an inappropriate limitation because we know

⏹️ ▶️ John how powerful these machines are. The M1 MacBook Air, it was just, you know, phenomenally powerful compared to

⏹️ ▶️ John its predecessors. Doesn’t seem like there’s a reason that it should only support one external screen, but apparently that is still

⏹️ ▶️ John the case with this one as well. selling the slower charger by default and making you

⏹️ ▶️ John pay more for the bigger, faster charger makes some sense, I guess, but it feels a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’d be nickel dimed. Um, what was the other limitation?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say it doesn’t so that the, they updated the screen. It doesn’t have P three still. They said it has over a billion colors,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that’s, I guess that’s still not P three. Um, but it is 500 nits now, which is, which is nice. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the screen look great. The only thing is it does not have like the way I complained forever about how of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Pro since it went Retina. It wasn’t quite a true 2X pixel match, you had to do scaling.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the new MacBook Pros that came out last fall fixed that finally, where you actually finally have true

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 2X pixels at default settings on new MacBook Pros. You still don’t on the new Air. So it’s still a lower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco end display. But I think, you know, given its role, given its price point, that makes total sense. That’s a totally excusable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco flaw.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the limitation is the RAM limit, which they increased, yay. But going up to 24, it seems kind of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t quite make it to 32. Power constraints, heat, you know, like maybe, hmm.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like the last time we had, last time I saw 24 anything, it reminded me, I made a joke about it on Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the old days of the Mac, it had essentially 24-bit addressing,

⏹️ ▶️ John because who would ever need more RAM than you can address with 24 bits? But it turns out eventually you did need more RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John to that. And then when that time came, a bunch of existing Mac applications would

⏹️ ▶️ John take their 32-bit values and use the upper six bits that weren’t being used. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John you could take a pointer and you could put other crap in there, right? But all of a sudden, that stuff becomes part of the address.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, oh, we can’t, these apps that expect that these bits are just for their

⏹️ ▶️ John use, they’re not gonna work on a 32-bit machine, so you had to buy 32-bit clean versions of

⏹️ ▶️ John the app. Like they’d be updated to be 32-bit clean, so like we won’t put weird crap in the top six bits.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll, you know. And there was this Mode 32 plug. Anyway, that’s the last time I can remember seeing 24.

⏹️ ▶️ John You usually see things go like eight, 16, 32 for a reason, but it seems like 24 is like, what

⏹️ ▶️ John can we wedge into this size and power envelope that also seems like it’s adequate? And honestly, I think it

⏹️ ▶️ John is adequate, but part of the thing that disappoints me with this in terms of capacity is, like

⏹️ ▶️ John again, M1 is so powerful, M2 is more powerful still. If there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John reason why you couldn’t use a MacBook Air and use all that 32 gigs of memory if you did some big

⏹️ ▶️ John memory intensive test because there’s plenty of compute available for it. And sometimes some

⏹️ ▶️ John jobs that you need to do are actually more memory heavy than compute heavy, right? I know it’s not a pro machine,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? So it doesn’t have to have, you know, 64 gigs or whatever, but being able to take the low end machine

⏹️ ▶️ John and sort of stuff it with the particular thing that is important for what you’re going to do with it

⏹️ ▶️ John is useful and they’re giving you that, you know, you can make it go up to 24 instead of making

⏹️ ▶️ John it go up to 16 and they, by the way, they charge you a huge amount was like 400 bucks for the 24 gigs, which is kind of disappointing.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I still think this machine, if you gave this machine a little bit more

⏹️ ▶️ John flexibility in terms of the options that you can put into it based on what people need.

13” MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John then you wouldn’t need this next machine, which just, I still find a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit confusing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this, so they said the MacBook Air was the world’s best selling laptop, and then they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said the 13-inch MacBook Pro is the world’s second best selling laptop. And I was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wondering as we kept seeing this, and as I’ve wondered in public for a while now, ever since, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why does that computer still exist? But I think the answer is, people seem to be buying it a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they buy it because it’s cheap. Right, well, and why do they buy something labeled Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that has none of the modern Pro features? Maybe it’s aspirational, maybe it’s marketing, they just think they need it for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some reason. But this computer, when they showed the slide of all the Macs at the end,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it stands out because it’s so old looking because it still has the old screen proportions without the notch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it still has a touch bar. Like, it looks really old. So you have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old style Magic, I guess, quote old, the 2019 era Magic Keyboard where it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not have the full height function keys or the big Touch ID button of the new ones. It has still the skinny function row with the touch bar,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it has the escape button, you know, that version of the touch bar. So, and so it has that, it has the,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the old screen bezel with no notch in the top. So the top bezel looks significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wider than the rest of them, because it is. It has the, you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same M2 and everything, pretty much all the same limitations, except it has a fan. And they said again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the fan is designed, quote, to sustain the performance of the M2. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we will see what happens when people actually get these things. In the M1 generation, what we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco found in testing is that the MacBook Air that was fanless with the M1 really would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hardly ever throttle unless you were doing some very heavy like GPU and CPU maximization, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re doing video rendering, for instance. And so that the difference in practice between having a fan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not having a fan that the M1 was pretty small. The M2, that ratio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might be different. We don’t know yet. We don’t know how they’ve tuned it, what the thermal characteristics are under load yet of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the revised cores and the revised process. So we will see. The calculation might be different. Maybe the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Air will throttle more than the M1-based one did. We don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So time will tell on that. Maybe that’s a reason to buy the MacBook Pro to get that little fan so that you can have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sustained max performance for a longer time. Who knows? But, and the battery’s also a little bit bigger too.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They quote the MacBook Air at 18 hours of video playback. They quote the MacBook Pro at 20. So it’s a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit better battery life. Isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen better too?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The screen, I don’t think is, I think the screen’s actually worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John But is it P3?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, I don’t know if they mentioned that. I don’t, I don’t know. But anyways, so this computer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still think if you’re looking at this 13 inch MacBook Quote Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think you should give a serious look at the 14 inch and see if you can get, you know, see if you can reach for that instead,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because you get a lot more for that machine. But, you know, whatever, they still sell this one and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apparently they sell a lot of them. So that’s why they updated it sort of, but I don’t see why this machine is still sold.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am unreasonably angry that this is still a thing. Like, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey understand why this is still a thing. And with the touch bar, like get rid of the stupid touch bar at this point. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t hate the touch bar, but I didn’t love it. But at this point, just get rid of the stupid touch bar. If nothing, like I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t understand why this is a thing. I know the answer is because I sell them, but why is this computer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still a thing? Just get rid of the darn thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I think the answer is that like the 14-inch MacBook Pro starting price is $2,000 and this thing is like 1,300.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like I see why, because that price

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gap is still really big. But I really think anybody who thinks you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or need this 13-inch MacBook Pro, Either see if you can do the 14 inch, which I know is a lot more money,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or get the new Air, which is frankly better feeling and it has the advantage of being silent no matter what you do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to it. Like, it probably has, you know, more modern other components too,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, the screen, you know, looks more modern and everything. I just, I think, I think the Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the better computer for most conditions where you’d be looking at this thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah, no, for sure the Air is the better computer, but you can make a good version of this computer because like you said,

⏹️ ▶️ John there is a big price gap. The good version of the computer would obviously not have a touch bar. It would just have a screen and a notch and

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen would be a slightly better version than the one in the Air and it would lean more heavily into its strengths, which would

⏹️ ▶️ John be the fan and the bigger battery. So what you’d have is something that is in price between the Air and the Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John that has some better components, I would probably lean on the screen, and it just is bigger and thicker and has more battery life.

⏹️ ▶️ John There is a place for that machine, right? The Air is the one that everybody should get. We all know that, it’s great. Like it does everything you’re gonna need.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if someone’s like, I just need a little more battery life, but I don’t wanna pay $2,000, the 13 inch,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe you don’t call it pro, I don’t know what you name the machine, but basically the machine I’m describing would be a good product, but this

⏹️ ▶️ John is not it, right? This is still, this is like the M1 MacBook Air. It’s like, yeah, we did this

⏹️ ▶️ John already. It’s the thing where you take an existing computer and you shove some different, now they’re doing it twice. We ripped out

⏹️ ▶️ John the guts and, no, I just, yeah. I think they need to, this computer needs more love.

⏹️ ▶️ John It needs another pass, because another pass and maybe another name, but

⏹️ ▶️ John because I don’t think the Air, there’s always gonna be a big gap between the Air and the bottom end Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John So there should be something there. And I don’t think the Air can extend all the way up to that. So you just have to lean into the

⏹️ ▶️ John fact that it’s bigger, it’s thicker, it’s heavier. And what do you get for that? More battery, better screen, a fan.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, maybe the Road here is gonna be like, you know, in the same way that they’re keeping around the M1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air at a lower price point. I wonder if maybe next time they rev the MacBook Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe it’s this fall, maybe it’s, you know, a year after that or whatever. Maybe next time they rev the MacBook Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the M1 Pro 14 inch sticks around in the lineup and just gets pushed down by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few hundred bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’d be amazing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t see that happening. I mean, I recognize for, yeah, for non low-end products, that’s less likely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco given their patterns, but if they still have a bunch of M1 Pros or M1 Max just sitting around that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t go into anything by then, that would be some way to close this gap because right now that gap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is very, very large. I wish they would close it a little bit price-wise because again, this 13 inch MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shouldn’t exist. People who want to buy it should be able to buy the 14-inch. And so the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more Apple can do to close that price gap over time, I think the better their lineup will be.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. All right.

macOS Ventura

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mac OS, Mac OS, Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Or Jesse the Body Ventura.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Neither one of these things

⏹️ ▶️ John is particularly pretty.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, they didn’t say Ventura. I wrote down, they said Ventura.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know. I’m just saying, like the pop culture things that spring to mind for people who are not familiar,

⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t have any preconceived notions for this place in California, are not

⏹️ ▶️ John great, but whatever, you know, new year, new name.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. So I really, this is just maybe for me, but I really enjoyed the little cameo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from Kyle, the Fitness Plus trainer when I think it was Craig was trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey find the right place to go to introduce this. I thought that was a fun little cameo. Anyway, Stage Manager.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you can activate it from Control Center and it shoves all of your accessory windows off to the side,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then they’re all in the left-hand side or perhaps this is configurable left-hand side, like different stacks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or piles as I think the word they used. You can cycle through the different windows in your pile

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by clicking on the left-hand side. And as you go between your different groups

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Windows and Stage Manager, it, quote, keeps Windows arranged just as I left

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them, quote, Mr. John Syracuse. So hey, Stage Manager is for people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who have way too many Windows and don’t know what to do with them, John.

⏹️ ▶️ John When I saw this feature, I was like, this feature looks much more Burberry for an iPad than a Mac, and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey surprise,

⏹️ ▶️ John it was, right? And so, like, Apple keeps trying to do

⏹️ ▶️ John things, and, you know, good. They keep trying to do things to make window management better on the Mac. But they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John tried so many different things and for the most part, those things remain in the OS. I don’t think people even

⏹️ ▶️ John know how many different things are in macOS to try to help you with window arrangement because a lot of them are kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John hidden, right? The snapping to edges of windows and like grid positions,

⏹️ ▶️ John how many people even know that exists? That was added years ago, it’s still there. There’s, you can hold on the option key to

⏹️ ▶️ John override it. The thing where you can tile the windows to be left half, right half, top half, bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John half, all that stuff that they made more visible in recent years in the green window widget, that’s still there

⏹️ ▶️ John too. That, it totally is in conflict with the stage manager thing because

⏹️ ▶️ John snapping something to be the left half of the screen now you’ve got this stupid weird angled blobs

⏹️ ▶️ John of piles that you’re supposed to be able to recognize. And so now we can’t snap to the left end of the screen. So is that feature either not

⏹️ ▶️ John going to exist or is it going to snap to the edge where the thing is? But what if you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna use, is it gonna leave a gutter for that? but what if you don’t use that feature and don’t wanna have that gutter there, now you’re losing

⏹️ ▶️ John part of your screen space. And then of course we have Mission Control, which has gone through many different names. It used to be called Expose,

⏹️ ▶️ John where you can get little tiles of windows and rearrange things. And all of those things exist at the same time.

⏹️ ▶️ John None of them really integrate with each other or related to each other in any way. They’re just sort of a legacy

⏹️ ▶️ John of trying things. And every time I see them do something like this, I think, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac way to maybe find a better solution a better solution for this would

⏹️ ▶️ John be to provide much, much better APIs and hooks for third parties to tackle

⏹️ ▶️ John this problem. I know there’s tons of apps like moon and the million magnet and all these other apps that you know that

⏹️ ▶️ John that use accessibility features to do this type of stuff. But no, none of those apps have the deep integration

⏹️ ▶️ John to the Windows Server that you would need to really, to really spark some innovation in this space,

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s clear that Apple is not entirely sure how to help here.

⏹️ ▶️ John They keep adding features. I I forgot about spaces, that’s there too. They keep adding features and things and you can

⏹️ ▶️ John use which ones you like and for the most part, the good thing is if you don’t wanna use them, they don’t get in your way, but it’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no coherent vision. It’s just a bunch of stuff. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the stuff never leaves, which probably makes you happy if you still use it, although you might get mad if they change spaces to not work the way you

⏹️ ▶️ John want it and then never abandon it and never touch it again for five years or whatever, but their window

⏹️ ▶️ John management solution is scattershot. is Scattershot.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now, if this stage manager works for some people, great. There’s a window management feature that previously they weren’t giving any people help, and then maybe this

⏹️ ▶️ John clicks with some people and it really helps them. But for me personally, this is not gonna help me at

⏹️ ▶️ John all because that’s not the way I manage Windows at all. And it is so much more appropriate

⏹️ ▶️ John to the iPad that it almost makes me think it was developed on the iPad and you say, you know what, we can bring this to the Mac too, which, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess, fair enough, but I’m not excited about stage manager. And as for remembering

⏹️ ▶️ John position of Windows, like good luck, you know, what if I changed, I attached two new monitors and changed the resolution on all of them and

⏹️ ▶️ John then I click one of those piles, who knows what’s gonna happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, spoiler alert, I think this was probably designed for iPad first, and I think maybe that also tells you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who it’s for, is maybe it’s for people who start out multitasking on an iPad and then wanna upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a Mac later.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, or wanna have the familiar experience, who’s like, I know how it works on the iPad, it’s like, well, here’s a Mac, oh, I don’t know what a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John is, it’s weird and confusing, oh, you could do window management kind of the same way, but not quite, we’ll get to that when we talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about the iPad. But I just, I really wish, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John either that there was a more coherent vision where they sort of wiped the table clean and said, here’s a new way to manage

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows and the Mac and or give third parties full access to the Windows server. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what I mean? Like actual hooks, like down to low level things where they can do literally anything and not just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, reaching in from the outside through accessibility APIs.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. We move right along. There’s spotlight improvements, including searching text

⏹️ ▶️ Casey inside of images, which is pretty cool, and also running shortcuts. Also, by the way, it’s at the bottom of the iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Casey home screen, which is a little bit different. I think that’ll be convenient, but that’s definitely different. Does

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyone have, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John Mark,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you have the beta. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the page dots at the bottom become a search box after a second or two when it’s displayed. So it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco starts out as page dots, and then it’s a little, little tiny search. And so you tap in search, and you get this little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing, and then it pops up.

⏹️ ▶️ John I saw that because when they showed it in the slide, they showed the dots, and then they said, And

⏹️ ▶️ John Spotlight is right on your home screen. And then it faded into being that thing. And I thought, are they showing us where the dots

⏹️ ▶️ John used to be are now Spotlight? But how do I know how many home screens I have? But literally, that was not a transition

⏹️ ▶️ John on the slide. That is what the UI does.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and whenever you swipe pages, it fades back into the dots for a second. Then it goes back to the search. And you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still, to be clear, you can still pull down on the home screen and Spotlight still just come up. So your gesture memory will work the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. But now there’s just an always visible thing there. It says search. And you just tap that. And there

⏹️ ▶️ John it is. Yeah, this is a discoverability thing, because if you don’t know about pulling down on the home screen, it may take you a while to discover

⏹️ ▶️ John it. But if there’s a prominent widget that has the word search in it, maybe you have a better chance of seeing it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mail was getting love.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah. Who would have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thunk it? I am really excited about this. You’re getting undo send, scheduled send, follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey suggestions, which by the way, did not have a hyphen, remind me, and also quote, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey biggest overhaul of search in mail we’ve done in years, quote, which is exciting. I’m curious,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think it will, but I’m curious for any services like FastMail that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey support these features natively. I wonder if mail will work with those server-side features.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I presume not, or if it will just do this all locally. And also if you like schedule a send

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on your Mac and then your Mac is asleep or perhaps off, then what happens? Like does

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that email not get sent? I don’t know. I have questions about this, but I’m still, I’m excited that they’re giving mail

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some love.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am so, I should actually set up a mail account on my beta phone to see,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but what I really wanna see is like, how good is the search on iOS? Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the search in desktop mail has never been great, but it at least has been comprehensive. iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mail has always had the challenge of, the iOS mail app, as far as I can tell, has never actually downloaded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all your mailbox content to the phone locally. You know, it does what it can, like it keeps all the cache of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the latest things, whatever, but it doesn’t download everything in your entire IMAP account across all folders forever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So when you do a search on the iPhone, historically, you hit search,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it first does a really fast search of whatever it has locally, and then it has to go start fetching stuff from the server.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s when it takes a while, it starts paging stuff in, it’s slow. And that also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limits how good of a search it can be if you have a large mail collection. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the new mail on the iPhone is actually gonna download your entire history of mail, then it can actually index

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it all and do smart stuff with it. So we’ll see how that plays out. But that’s been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one major architectural thing that has limited it so far. But the fact that they’re even tackling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, I’m very happy to see this, because the mail apps on all their platforms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have been mostly stagnant for most of their lives. They occasionally get little tiny updates,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but usually not much. This is actually really nice modern features

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that all these modern mail clients that only work on Gmail, They all support all these things. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Undoed Send, the Scheduled Send, the Remind Me, which is I think also called snoozing in many other places. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all great. And again, search has always been pretty rudimentary. And so to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have them tackling these things, I’m looking very much forward to seeing how well these things work.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jim Collins-Sweatman Yep, me too. Safari gets a few different things. They get shared tab groups,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I could see actually being pretty convenient.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like a vacation plan or something like that, or looking at Airbnbs that we may want to stay at. And rather

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than just spamming each other via iMessage, we could just have a shared tab group with these tabs open. So I’m actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of excited for that. I don’t think I’ll use it often, but I think it’ll be super convenient when I do. Paskeys,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is the Fido stuff we talked about, was that last week, week before? They spent a fair bit of time on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, and I’m excited to see that it’s becoming more and more real.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John The news

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Fido stuff is basically like Like last year, and we talked about this, if you didn’t hear it, it was on what, 84?

⏹️ ▶️ John What number are we on now? 486. Yeah, 484, episode 484, you can hear us talk about Fido. All that stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John is still relevant. The last time they announced this, it last year’s WWDC,

⏹️ ▶️ John it was all the same stuff, but last year they said, hey, these APIs are just for you to try. Like, we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not sure these are the final APIs, try them, give us feedback, like let us know what we’re doing, don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John use these in production, They’re not ready for you to actually implement this. This is just to try stuff out. This year,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re saying all the same stuff, but now you can use it. It’s real, you can use it, please

⏹️ ▶️ John implement this stuff. I haven’t looked at the sessions yet, but that was my impression from seeing the keynote stuff is that

⏹️ ▶️ John what was last year, just something for developers to try out is now real and people can put in products. I hope that’s the case.

⏹️ ▶️ John I look forward to seeing the specific sessions on this to find out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. All right, gaming got a section,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess. Like this is the thing?

⏹️ ▶️ John When I watch these things, like, so if you follow console development, every

⏹️ ▶️ John game console, and of course Windows, like have all these, have APIs

⏹️ ▶️ John to do all of these things. You know, whatever the Apple’s talking about, particularly you

⏹️ ▶️ John can look at it and say, oh, that’s like X from PlayStation or Xbox, but the Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John version of it. And this year was some upscaling stuff, resource loading, blah, blah, whatever. Like, and it always

⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of fascinating to me that Apple is putting in all this work to essentially create on their

⏹️ ▶️ John own a first class gaming API stack from top to bottom.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, just like, you know, Sony does with PlayStation, just like Microsoft does with Xbox and PC gaming, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s doing that too. Uh, the only difference is Apple is doing that in service of essentially.

⏹️ ▶️ John Phone games, right? Which are the mobile games are the largest part of the gaming market. If you think it’s just a sideshow, it’s not,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s the biggest part. but it’s not the show, as they say. It is not, you know, AAA games.

⏹️ ▶️ John It is not the high profile ones. It is not, it’s kind of like not the, not the blockbusters.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I say that only if your definition of blockbuster is like public consciousness and not money, because

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s got plenty of blockbusters, but they’re casino games for children. And so it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s weird that like, these APIs all look really good, but they work on

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple platforms, right? And only on Apple platforms. and I think they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John good, and they would let people make lots of cool things, but nobody is going to really invest

⏹️ ▶️ John in writing against these pretty good APIs for Apple platforms

⏹️ ▶️ John for a game that is intended to run elsewhere. So if you’re writing a iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John type game or a game that’s targeting the iPad or whatever, yeah, this is great. The APIs are good,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re getting better all the time. You know, the industry standard, industry wide features eventually come to Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John platforms you get to use them, they have great hardware. But if your goal is to sell your game

⏹️ ▶️ John to as many people as possible, you’re gonna use some cross-platform engine, you know, like Unity or whatever, and then Unity

⏹️ ▶️ John will, you know, adapt to these APIs and stuff like that. So it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not a shame that Apple does this, but I look at it like, wow, Apple spends a lot of money and time and has a lot of really smart people

⏹️ ▶️ John making a lot of cool APIs, and no matter how good they are at it, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John never going to, you know, help them get what they seem to want, which is like, oh, let’s have Resident Evil Village

⏹️ ▶️ John show like that a game is out for every other platform is soon gonna be on our platforms like big deal. Like Apple seems

⏹️ ▶️ John to want to be like, we’re big in games, we have AAA games, the cool gamers like our platforms, like

⏹️ ▶️ John no, they don’t. They like mobile gamers like your platform. That’s your business. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John how you get 80% of your billions of dollars from the app store, right? Like that’s a thing and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John good to have a good gaming APIs for that, but they keep trying to make fetch happen. They keep trying to be

⏹️ ▶️ John like, no, Resident Evil, that’s cool, right kids? And that’s just their

⏹️ ▶️ John problem is not their hardware. And the problem is not their, well, I’m not gonna say it’s not their API. The problem is not the

⏹️ ▶️ John quality of their API. The problem is that their APIs are only their APIs and aren’t, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, cross-platform. And you could argue the same thing. There’s PlayStation specific APIs, there’s Xbox specific APIs,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think there’s more sort of commonality in that world than there is in the Apple world. With Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like top to bottom, everything Apple proprietary, and any work you do to optimize specifically for Apple platforms, it’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ John useless for you elsewhere. which is a shame.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Continuity. I am genuinely excited about FaceTime handoff. So if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you have a FaceTime call on your phone and then you walk up to your Mac, it’ll see that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your phone is nearby and that it’s doing a FaceTime call and you can hand off the call from your phone to your Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I’m really excited about. I confess I thought

⏹️ ▶️ John that already

⏹️ ▶️ Casey existed. No, no, no, no, definitely not.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just, I totally thought, it shows how often I do this type of thing. Maybe it only exists for audio calls or something, but

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, FaceTime handoff.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and I don’t think that existed at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Continuity camera, this is a feature made for me and my crap ass

⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera on my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John beloved studio display. This is

⏹️ ▶️ John another thing where if you scroll down on our show notes, in fact, just below the giant WWDC things,

⏹️ ▶️ John we have a section called using the iPhone as a webcam.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, and I actually tweeted a picture of my setup when I was watching everything today, and I had the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show notes up, and in that picture, you can see exactly what you’re talking about before WWDC happened. So anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can use an iPhone as a webcam. I guess if it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone that’s connected to your Apple ID and all that jazz, you don’t even have to wake up the phone. There’s no wires

⏹️ ▶️ Casey required. It supports center stage. It has a studio light mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is unclear to me whether or not that kicks on the flashlight on your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I think it’s just the same weird brightening that the Apple Studio Display tries to do and makes our faces all look weird.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this has been a feature of iPhone cameras for a little while. It’s an extension of portrait mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So they take portrait mode and apply some machine learning and then you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey have,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they introduced it a few years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, and then they also have something called Desk View. And apparently if you have a phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that has the ultra wide camera on it, it will use the single image from the ultra

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wide camera but split it into two images for the perspective of the person on the other end of the FaceTime call

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where you see your face in one of the images And the desktop, your physical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey desktop, not your computer’s desktop, I’m talking the physical desktop you place your hands on, is also shown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as like a second image. If this works at all, that’s gonna be super cool. And I immediately flashed back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Declan’s kindergarten teacher last year, because he was virtual all year last year, and she went

⏹️ ▶️ Casey through ridiculous hoops. This woman is an angel, and she went through ridiculous hoops in order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get it so that she could easily show the kids what’s on her desk, what’s on her screen, what, you know, her herself.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like it was so complicated for her and I felt so bad and she did such an amazing job of it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as it turns out, if it was this year, she could have slapped an iPhone behind her screen and call it a day.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like I just think that’s super, super neat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is, we’ll see like what are the limitations of the amount of image data it’s getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off of that tiny little sensor on the ultra wide lens and how much, you know, de-warping it’s having to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make this like, it’s probably gonna be fairly low resolution, especially as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get closer towards one side, but I think it’s still a really cool thing that they’re doing this at all.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Although, so this is kind of, you know, we have the apology mouse after they did the puck mouse. I know

⏹️ ▶️ John this isn’t actually an apology for the Apple Studio Display camera, given the timing, but it is, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John hey, we sold a fairly expensive monitor with a not so great camera on it, but you all have iPhones,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Well, if you’re desperate, you can do this. And to sort of the, you know, the janky cherry on top

⏹️ ▶️ John is the fact that they’re third party. They’re not even selling a first party, like thing to attach your phone

⏹️ ▶️ John to your screen of your laptop. It’s all just a bunch of third-party plastic things that like snap onto the magnet

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. Like they don’t look good. They look out of scale. It’s weird to have,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, an iPhone 13 Pro Max hanging off the end of your MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Air screen just to get a better camera. It’s weird to have your phone up

⏹️ ▶️ John there because what if you want to use your phone and not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey everyone has an old

⏹️ ▶️ John phone hanging around that they’re going to use. And just, you look at all this and it’s like, just put better cameras in your computers

⏹️ ▶️ John for crying out loud like this. Like, it really boggles my mind at this point. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John how much does the best camera in the back of an iPhone cost Apple? $50? Like how much could it possibly cost?

⏹️ ▶️ John $100? Whatever the price is, just pass it on to the consumer and put good cameras in your computers.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s what we’re saying like the MacBook Air, better camera than the Apple Studio Display. Why?

⏹️ ▶️ John Because it’s not a wide angle center stage thing. It is a more narrowly focused, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like quote unquote regular camera. That’s not great. It’s not an awesome camera, but at

⏹️ ▶️ John least you have more resolution and less compromise than the wide angle one.

⏹️ ▶️ John And just like, we talked about this was in the show. It was in the show, it was a third party app called Camo that

⏹️ ▶️ John does this, right? And obviously Apple can do it better than any third party app because they

⏹️ ▶️ John have system integration. Presumably it’ll be, you know, more reliable and just faster and better. Like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, it’s feel bad when an app gets Sherlocked, but this is the type of feature that, only Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John can implement because they’re the only ones who have access to the APIs, basically. And the iPhone is a

⏹️ ▶️ John fairly closed platform. So I’m not saying this is bad. I’m glad it exists. But Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not the solution to your bad cameras. I believe that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it is possible

⏹️ ▶️ John to do better with the cameras that you put in your Macs. Please make this feature essentially obsolete.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is a glorious hack, but it’s a hack nonetheless. And if we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can make it less necessary, that would be wonderful.

⏹️ ▶️ John And, Evel, even if they put good cameras in the Mac, the one role that it does have, and this is the way it should be advertised, is

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t hang your phone off the back of your computer. Now you have a mobile thing, like, oh, I need to show you something. I need to go over here

⏹️ ▶️ John and do this and do that. That is why this feature should exist. It should never exist to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to take a computer that already has a camera facing me, like this laptop, and I’m gonna replace it with this better

⏹️ ▶️ John camera that’s in my very expensive phone. Because the advantage of a camera in your phone that your Mac is

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of seeing through, is you can move it around. Or let me look over here and look over there. I’m gonna go into this room, and I don’t know what the range

⏹️ ▶️ John is on the thing, but like having a mobile camera is useful. A mobile additional camera

⏹️ ▶️ John is also useful, but the ones that are built in should be better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Agreed. I don’t remember any talk of settings during the keynote, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s been a lot of, a big kerfuffle about it since the keynote ended. John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can you fill me in on what’s going on here?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I haven’t looked at it myself either because I don’t have betas installed, but I’ve seen at least one screenshot and heard some things from some people

⏹️ ▶️ John about it. This was rumored and I can’t even tell from the screenshot whether this part of it is true, but my assumption

⏹️ ▶️ John is that the application that used to be called System Preferences on your Mac, where you could change settings and stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John has now been renamed to be Settings, which is what it’s called on iOS and iPadOS, and that

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense. Again, I can’t confirm that from the screenshot, but I’m assuming it’s true, but the real news is the app

⏹️ ▶️ John itself looks totally different. What does it look like? Looks a lot like the Settings app looks on your iPad. It’s got on the left-hand

⏹️ ▶️ John side, there’s a little scrolling list of things that are in order that only Apple understands, and on the

⏹️ ▶️ John right-hand side is sort of the detail pane of the things showing up. And from the people who have

⏹️ ▶️ John actually used this briefly in the beta today, what I’ve heard is that it’s buggy and janky,

⏹️ ▶️ John as you would imagine for an app that has been completely replaced with a totally new interface. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it uses SwiftUI and has weird problems. Maybe the window doesn’t resize quite properly. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s missing features that existed in the previous version. The one technical advantage it has is that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s my understanding that the preference panes now run in separate processes, which is better, so they won’t take

⏹️ ▶️ John down your thing when they crash or whatever, but I think that might have even been true in the existing system preferences. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John system preferences hasn’t changed much since Mac OS X 10.0, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s always just been a grid of randomly organized icons with some options to move them around and

⏹️ ▶️ John they add the search features with the little spotlight that actually puts a little spotlight graphic or whatever. But

⏹️ ▶️ John in the end, it’s just been basically a grid of icons and Apple moves them around every once in a while, unifying that interface

⏹️ ▶️ John with the settings app on the rest of the platform makes sense to me. But unfortunately,

⏹️ ▶️ John the settings app on all Apple’s other platforms, isn’t that great? It’s confusing, it’s hard to find things.

⏹️ ▶️ John Unless you have really internalized Apple’s thinking with how they break things up into groups, it’s not easy to

⏹️ ▶️ John find things. Granted, there’s a search bar at top. So anyway, I’m all for rearranging this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t spend a lot of time in the settings apps. I think this is the right move. Unifying it across all platforms is a good

⏹️ ▶️ John idea, but kind of like shortcuts for the Mac, It would also be nice if the app itself was a good app.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this seems like, at least in the very, very first beta from few people who’ve used it on the very first

⏹️ ▶️ John day it’s out, it seems like it might not be quite there yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, a couple of minor things. It’s called System Settings, not Settings. Which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John is weird. Why? So close.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I understand, so it went from System Preferences to System Settings, but why not just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco call it Settings? If the whole goal is to unify it across the other

⏹️ ▶️ John platforms. It’s just called Settings on the phone. Are they not settings for the system? what are they settings for? System seems

⏹️ ▶️ John redundant with some. Oh, well. Maybe they’ll change that. You can change the name pretty easily.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they mentioned in State of the Union that they were using SwiftUI across more of their own apps. They specifically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called out the new settings app as using SwiftUI. The wording of it was a little bit waffly before it sounds like it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might not be all SwiftUI. And they also called out that they rewrote the font book app that apparently isn’t entirely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco SwiftUI.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty safe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I hope. I don’t think people are spending a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time on font book. I mean, I think if font book cannot be written in SwiftUI, Swift UI needs a lot more work than we think.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Font book is, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the thing about with these rewrites, like when you get a rewrite, like even a rewrite of a font book, a font book, if

⏹️ ▶️ John you launch it now on your Mac, it has a lot of features and a lot of things that you can do with it. How many of those are still going to be present

⏹️ ▶️ John in the rewrite? Same thing with system preferences. People might not know, but system preferences has like a menu and the menu bar that you can do things,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can sort things differently, you can hide preference panes. There’s a lot of junk in there. And I’m not sure, you don’t need

⏹️ ▶️ John to bring that all over, but some people are gonna miss some of the features that are gone and

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, like, this is the type of thing where I think someone had an idea a long time ago of what

⏹️ ▶️ John settings should look like and it hasn’t really been revisited or rethought and now it’s just sort of spreading everywhere

⏹️ ▶️ John and eventually it will be the same everywhere but I feel like it’s not, with the exception of having a sidebar which

⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of like the iPad interface, like the phone just has the list of settings and you sort of go into and out of it because it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John long, skinny screen but on the iPad they have a sidebar and on the Mac they have a sidebar as well and presumably the Mac window is resizable

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever but there are legacy concerns here for third-party preference panes and how they’re gonna work and how they lay

⏹️ ▶️ John themselves out. And just for the first party ones, I don’t like the idea that every time Apple redoes something we should

⏹️ ▶️ John just assume there’s gonna be a year of using an app that a third-party developer would have been embarrassed to release.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know what I mean? Like if you were, if you made a third-party app and it was like Mac shortcuts

⏹️ ▶️ John for an entire year, it wouldn’t get reviewed well. Like people would review it and say, this app

⏹️ ▶️ John looks kind of like it’s, you know, it needs more work, it needs more polish, right? We don’t, but nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John reviews Apple’s apps like, you don’t have a choice. You like a better shortcuts app, tough luck, right? You like a different settings app, tough

⏹️ ▶️ John luck. This is the one you get. And so we just all have to stomach it for a year. But honestly, I mean, and this is prejudging. It’s the very first

⏹️ ▶️ John beta. Like maybe this will be awesome by the time it’s released. But like, I feel like the bar for when Apple does a

⏹️ ▶️ John new version of an app should be much higher than it is. It shouldn’t be like, oh, it’s okay that it will be,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, cruddy for a year with a bunch of obvious bugs. That shouldn’t be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco acceptable. Yeah, well, and also, you know, I think Apple has, you know, some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reputational debt to possibly pay off or make worse here, because when they’ve recently rewritten

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac apps, like, think about disk utility. You know, they rewrote disk utility,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the new version of it was much worse than the old one for a while. In certain ways, it might still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be. You know, they don’t have a lot of great history of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tackling major rewrites of stuff on Mac OS recently, with high quality in mind.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Usually the replacements are worse than what they replaced if it’s like a direct rewrite or something old.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so if they’re getting better at that, great. They have to show us and they have to establish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a new baseline of good performance there. But it remains to be seen whether they’re actually doing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whether these rewrites will actually end up being worse.

⏹️ ▶️ John And also I have to say for existing system purposes, since I’ve been spending some time on setting my wife’s new computer and everything,

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of them over the recent years have basically had little web views inside

⏹️ ▶️ John them. In fact, some people like, you can do this thing where you can bring up the WebKit inspector and start inspecting the little

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco web views that you didn’t know were

⏹️ ▶️ John web views. Sort of the expectation of Polish,

⏹️ ▶️ John of like, there’s this pane that you’re gonna see that’s gonna be populated by WebKit views, but you won’t know the

⏹️ ▶️ John WebKit views and there’s no reload button, you don’t see when there are errors. It shows up with like, when I go into the Apple ID

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, I was trying to do with stuff with Apple ID or Apple Pay, sometimes things just either don’t display or

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to know, like when it says, your Apple ID settings need to be updated. You’re familiar

⏹️ ▶️ John with that one? You get a little badge and it wants you to do something. You do the thing and you just have to know from experience.

⏹️ ▶️ John After you do the thing that it wants you to do, which is usually entering some password or something, you just have to wait like five

⏹️ ▶️ John to 17 seconds. And don’t touch anything during this time, but just, there’s no indication

⏹️ ▶️ John that anything is happening, but just be aware that there are HTTP requests in flight behind the scenes, and there’s nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John additional that you need to do. And if you click away and go someplace else, you will not have done it. So just wait, wait,

⏹️ ▶️ John wait. And if you’re lucky, then the screen will update. It’s like, oh, now we’ve done the thing. Sometimes you click into something

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’ll just be like a blank gray screen and nothing will work. Sometimes you’ll try to add your Apple card to Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John Pay and it will go through a bunch of things and it will say, sorry, I couldn’t add it. Try again or cancel. And it’ll be like

⏹️ ▶️ John that for an entire day and you have no idea why, but tomorrow it will work. Right? These are unacceptable

⏹️ ▶️ John for a settings app. Settings app should be like, there’s a bunch of stuff that you do and it works. If

⏹️ ▶️ John I change my DNS, it should change my DNS. If I change the screen resolution, it changes it. There shouldn’t be like

⏹️ ▶️ John crashing bugs or display errors or inability to resize the window in the system

⏹️ ▶️ John settings app. It is like, I don’t know why I’m so obsessed with the system setting apps. It’s not like I spend all day in there, but it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is fundamental. This is just like, I feel like it should be like low

⏹️ ▶️ John degree of difficulty UI. You are changing some settings about the sound. The sound input should be X, the sound

⏹️ ▶️ John output should be Y, the volume should be this. that stuff should just work 100% of the time. And you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John to be fair, the sound one does. But I feel that way about all of them, and especially the Apple ID stuff, which is so fraught.

⏹️ ▶️ John That whole world, when I click on like my little face and go into the Apple ID thing, feels so fraught to me, and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John so delicate, and I have to be so careful. And some huge percent of the time, something just doesn’t work, and I just

⏹️ ▶️ John know to come back in a day or two, and then it will work. That’s not a good experience. I really hope that gets better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Can we move on to iPadOS 16, please? Let’s do it.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So first of all, speaking of segues, I enjoyed the Kyle cameo earlier.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What was going on with the Baywatch style slow run that was happening in this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John segue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the spare? Should have done running up that hill, but they didn’t do it. And neither one of you gets

⏹️ ▶️ John that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey as a reference. Nope.

⏹️ ▶️ John Someone made that on Twitter. I will find the link for the show notes and put it in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right. For the people who do get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the reference. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, I think this iPadOS 16 has the biggest finally moment

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the whole keynote. There there is now finally an Apple weather app for the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hooray!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John But no calculator. No, it can’t handle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Next year, next year. You gotta save something

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year. And by the way, and this was accompanied by the kind of subtle announcement of the WeatherKit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco API, which effectively, they went into more detail in the State of the Union, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s basically the Dark Sky API. They even have pricing for high volume use. It’s very close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Dark Sky. It’s basically Dark Sky API at the system level. And it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fantastic. If you look at the API for it, you don’t have to make web

⏹️ ▶️ Marco service calls or anything like that. You just call weatherkit.conditions or whatever and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s an async thing. And when it returns, it gives you your weather. It’s really, really great. That,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, is going to be fantastic. It’s such a big finally on the iPad weather front. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I think WeatherKit is a really, really cool thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just buy Dark Sky to have weather data for themselves. They also are, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, continuing it as an API for people to use. And that’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and I believe the pricing is pretty competitive, if not great, from what Underscore

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said. So, yeah, this is pretty awesome. I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John going to say it was

⏹️ ▶️ John half the price, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, so it’s even better.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we’ll have a link to his tweet about it somewhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. We get some collaboration features. we get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Freeform app Sneak Peek, which is, I guess, like a whiteboard app, which looked really, really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, collaborative

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whiteboard, basically.

⏹️ ▶️ John They had a bunch of this collaboration stuff, like, threaded throughout the whole presentation. In fact, not just the iPadOS

⏹️ ▶️ John section, of like all these different applications and APIs. So you can have multiple people do

⏹️ ▶️ John a thing with your app at the same time. And it reminded me of like kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John an Apple version of what has always been the Google ethos for their entire sort of online

⏹️ ▶️ John office system. They don’t call it that, like Google Docs, and Google Sheets, or whatever. Google is, or Google

⏹️ ▶️ John Wave for that matter. And a lot of things that Google does have inherently be multi-user and multi-user

⏹️ ▶️ John simultaneous, or sub-eth edit to go back in the day. Oh, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac platforms, right? And Apple has those features on some of its apps, and now it has more APIs to make that better.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I endorse this, but the thing about collaboration is if

⏹️ ▶️ John it is buggy or broken in any way, it just, it might as well not even exist,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Because it scares people away or worse, it doesn’t scare people away and they use it and then they lose data and it just makes people

⏹️ ▶️ John angry. It really needs to work in a way that you don’t think about it. We have multiple people

⏹️ ▶️ John editing this ATP Shownos document all the time and we never think about it. We just go do it, it happens

⏹️ ▶️ John all the time. No amount of our brain power is spent worrying about conflicts or bugs

⏹️ ▶️ John or I type this thing that didn’t save. Whereas I’ve done multiple collaborations, and

⏹️ ▶️ John multiple people commenting on like a Word document and the latest and greatest version of Word on multiple platforms,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it sucks so bad. All you do is think about it. Should I what you

⏹️ ▶️ John end up messaging people in teams and saying, Can I go in the document? Have you had your comment? I don’t see it

⏹️ ▶️ John yet. Oh, it does updates. Wait, no, did you say if I didn’t save the documents locked, I can’t do a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple hopefully, you know, adds these APIs and does it as well as Google with an interface

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s trying to be like Microsoft. Although I have to say with Microsoft’s native apps, I usually preferred,

⏹️ ▶️ John back at my day job, to use the web version of Word or the web version of Excel

⏹️ ▶️ John because they had better, more reliable interfaces for multi-user collaboration than the native versions.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that is wrong and should not be that way. So where does Apple fall in this spectrum? Are they

⏹️ ▶️ John reliable? Would I rather use a web interface? Is there a web interface? I hope they

⏹️ ▶️ John do a good job with it. So the collaboration is a thing that I think we all take for granted, which is why they’re adding these features. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s a great thing to add. In particular, the freeform app I was excited about, not because

⏹️ ▶️ John I wanna have an infinite whiteboard, but because whenever I’m on a FaceTime call with family, I miss the

⏹️ ▶️ John old iChat feature of like, let’s look at pictures together, because they wanna see, oh, we went on a trip and

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a bunch of pictures. And then we ended up having to like, message the pictures to each other and then

⏹️ ▶️ John switch out of the FaceTime app to go look at photos. And my parents get confused about multitasking. They don’t know how to get back

⏹️ ▶️ John to the call or whatever. I just want us to all be together and let’s all look at the pictures together. And it seems like Freeform

⏹️ ▶️ John might be able to do that as one corner of its vast functionality. And if so, I will use

⏹️ ▶️ John it and like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was another mention about gaming, including a background download API. Game Center is still a thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I completely forgot existed, but here we are. There’s some share play stuff with gaming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I guess a bunch of that arrives later this year. Then they started talking about the serious stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for serious iPad people, including desktop class apps. They were very excited about undo and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey redo across the entire system, availability view and calendar, tons of files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app updates, inline find and replace, user customizable toolbars, and desktop class

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app APIs.

⏹️ ▶️ John As I said on Twitter, you’ve heard of Mac-assed Mac apps, well this is Mac-assed iPad apps. An iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John app, but with flexibility and features.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So commensurate

⏹️ ▶️ John with the hardware that it is running on in theory. In theory.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, then there’s going to be a reference mode, which is for like photo and video editors

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get reference color on screens that support it. And then I think everything from here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on requires M1 iPads. I might have that wrong, but I think that’s the case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe that’s true, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of the things that is new is display scaling, which I guess basically lets you make

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything smaller if you actually have good eyes, which I do not.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So you can fit- Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s super important for the stage manager feature because if you don’t want your screen

⏹️ ▶️ John real estate in terms of information display being eaten up by that little column of, you know, stage

⏹️ ▶️ John manager things on the side, scale the whole interface and now suddenly you’re, what was previously filling

⏹️ ▶️ John your screen, all those same pixels are there, just squished a little bit to make room on the side

⏹️ ▶️ John for the stage manager’s thing. And this, I think this makes perfect sense. Would the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco piles be called actors? Because you know, stage managers, like, you know, you manage actors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s a very good nerd joke.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Actors are a different thing. These are definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John piles. But not like the disease. I remember

⏹️ ▶️ John reading patents for piles ages ago for the finder. This is not quite the same thing. Those are more like piles of

⏹️ ▶️ John files in folder. I think they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were called stacks. Pile is not an appealing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John term.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, they were called, I’m thinking back past stacks.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was a thing called piles, and you know, not, a name not chosen for any release thing, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John so like on just like on your laptops and on your Mac you can scale the screen resolution

⏹️ ▶️ John if you choose to that’s a Perfectly appropriate feature for iPads. We should have had it years ago and now it is, you know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John even better to come with stage manager and stage manager makes a lot of sense on the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John as their attempts to improve Multitasking they didn’t go with it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just like the Mac because again the Mac has a huge list of features for managing windows plus all the manual

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, the iPad has a more coherent story. There’s not a huge list of features. There’s this,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the, you know, there’s the previous thing, slide over and splitting the screen and everything like that. And now there’s also

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing, which is like multiple overlapping resizable windows, but not

⏹️ ▶️ John complete freedom. The system itself makes some decisions about the overlap, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John to you. I can’t tell from the demo whether those decisions are just the initial

⏹️ ▶️ John decisions, after which point you can manually move things as needed. I hope that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the case, because any kind of decision that the system makes for you to be intelligent,

⏹️ ▶️ John probably knowing Apple, makes an arrangement that looks nice aesthetically, but when you

⏹️ ▶️ John have multiple overlapping windows, it’s important,

⏹️ ▶️ John based on what you’re doing, to see specific parts of specific windows to complete

⏹️ ▶️ John your task. And the OS can’t know what those parts are because it doesn’t know what you’re doing. That’s why windows

⏹️ ▶️ John are movable and resizable. So you can arrange multiple windows so you can see the parts of the windows that

⏹️ ▶️ John you need to see right now to do the specific thing that you’re doing. And it will be very frustrating

⏹️ ▶️ John if the system arranges windows and you try to like move one up a centimeter so you can see this

⏹️ ▶️ John line of text that you’re trying to grip from and it just slides back down. It says, no, no, no, you shouldn’t be up a centimeter, you should be down a centimeter.

⏹️ ▶️ John This looks better, doesn’t it? It’s a better composition. It’s like, no, I’m not making a screenshot for marketing. I need to see what’s in that window.

⏹️ ▶️ John So let me arrange them how I want. So I don’t know how this works, but I really hope

⏹️ ▶️ John that essentially you can manually override any decision it makes for you because the whole point of overlapping windows,

⏹️ ▶️ John overlapping resizable windows is you have to be able to move them so you

⏹️ ▶️ John can see the stuff that you want. It doesn’t mean you have to be forced to move them all the time. It can make smart decisions for you

⏹️ ▶️ John as initial default, but I really, really hope there’s a way to move them out because

⏹️ ▶️ John the alternative, the other ones like tiling and everything, you didn’t have to worry about overlap. Nothing was ever obscured. You just had to worry about sizing. and even

⏹️ ▶️ John that you had control over, you could decide how much of the screen, the vertical screen you wanted for each one, or you decided

⏹️ ▶️ John how, well, slide over was kind of limited, but you had a little bit of control there, but at least you didn’t have to worry about

⏹️ ▶️ John overlapping. Once you allow overlapping, there has to be manual control. So I’m very curious to see how

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve done this. And all that said, like, I think it’s the right decision not to force

⏹️ ▶️ John everyone to manually arrange everything because, you know, people are not good at that and don’t like to do it. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why they zoom everything to full screen and the iPad shouldn’t be that experience. So the defaults will probably be

⏹️ ▶️ John fine for most people. And even the defaults for overlapping are probably fine in a lot of cases. But please, please

⏹️ ▶️ John let me, I made a joke about the janitor, if you’ll remember this back in the day, Steve Jobs. I think it was

⏹️ ▶️ John Steve Jobs, had made a derisive comment a few times about how having to

⏹️ ▶️ John arrange windows on your Mac made him feel like the janitor. It’s like, well, I don’t wanna have to be the janitor. I want the computer

⏹️ ▶️ John to do it for me. But that’s a nice dream, right? But

⏹️ ▶️ John actual janitors in real life are human beings who have intelligence, whereas your window manager and your computer has

⏹️ ▶️ John no idea what you’re doing and can’t talk to you or figure that out. So yeah, if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re gonna have overlapping windows, no matter how much a system does for you, iPadOS 16 at least is letting you

⏹️ ▶️ John finally be the janitor that we all wanna be every once in a while.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to me, the biggest shock of this announcement, possibly my biggest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprise of the day today is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, so you know what just happened

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco zoom crash and crashed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it didn’t. Oh, what just happened is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m using the hotel internet and when I when I got here approximately twenty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four hours ago,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it timed out yeah yeah. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco agreed to you know the terms of service and told it like you know give me give me like the better internet for five bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a day. Well, it’s been 24 hours and it just cut me right off. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s so bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You have to insert

⏹️ ▶️ John five more dollars to continue this podcast. Right. He he he he he he he he he he. This

⏹️ ▶️ John is the grim future that dystopian novels in the 80s described. You’ll be using your

⏹️ ▶️ John computer and at a certain point it will say, no sorry, no more computer for you, insert five dollars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, honestly, that’s how a lot of in-app purchases work in games. Like that’s directly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we already have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that. It’s terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s an energy mechanic and we have to wait a week before we can podcast again. We can pay to podcast sooner. You gotta leave

⏹️ ▶️ John all this in, do like a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jeopardy. The bootleg wants to hear our

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John technical problems.

⏹️ ▶️ John I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey don’t know man, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey might be good enough for the real deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco All right, anyway. So, what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John we heard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the most shocking thing and then you died. We couldn’t guess what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it was.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, the most shocking thing to me this whole day was the reason why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPads have not been able to show a whole bunch of apps on screen at once

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not because Apple is like over nannying you and saying you shouldn’t have multiple windows.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it’s because iPads didn’t have a lot of RAM until very recent models.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so the way iOS has always worked, iOS has always had virtual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory, but it’s never had swapping of the virtual memory back to disk. So what that means is it can do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tricks with address space and stuff like you expect from any modern computer, but if it runs out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of physical RAM, it wouldn’t page out parts of memory to disk the way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, PCs and Macs have done for decades. And so what that has always meant is that iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can only keep apps running if it can keep them 100% in RAM. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so what you wouldn’t want is, like on an iPad where you can show multiple apps, you wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want one of the apps that’s literally on screen to suddenly have to get kicked out of RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so that has always limited what they can do with multitasking in the past. And so I think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason so the giant shock today is that they are adding virtual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory swap support to iPadOS. Now this is only on M1 Macs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think this is probably for performance reasons but also you know M1 Macs have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least 8 gigs of RAM. So that’s all you know they already have a higher ceiling to begin with.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But and then the the higher end models Like I think the bigger capacities of the 12.9 at least have 16 gigs of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco RAM. And they even said that like now, a very demanding app,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like Photoshop for the iPad, is now gonna be able to address up to 16 gigs if it’s available. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s amazing. Anyway, so now that they have Swap, they’re able to run many more apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at once without kicking anything out of memory. And I think that was a prerequisite to having any kind of window management

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option on the iPad where you could have more than two or three apps running at once. So to have that now is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredible. And that’s one of those things that if you, I would never would have thought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that iOS would add swapping. I never thought that was ever on the table.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why are you so shocked by that? Because like the reason I’m not shocked at all, in fact, I think it’s long overdue, is because

⏹️ ▶️ John look at how Mac hardware with literally the same hardware, look at how M1 Macs perform.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like they’re phenomenal. And of course, Mac OS X and Mac OS have always had

⏹️ ▶️ John swap. Like, they don’t, you know, they don’t bog down

⏹️ ▶️ John from thrashing constantly like the old Macs used to with spinning disks. The SSDs are fast

⏹️ ▶️ John and the OS is good about using memory, especially on a platform where you don’t have to worry about 64-bit and 32-bits mixing,

⏹️ ▶️ John which hasn’t been true of the iOS platforms in forever. Like, why wouldn’t it have swap? Is there something about the performance of

⏹️ ▶️ John an M1 MacBook Air running way more RAM-hungry applications, is there something about that 16 gig

⏹️ ▶️ John or 8 gig MacBook Air that seems so horrendous that you would never put it on an iPad? No, it’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Swap is way overdue on the iPad line and they were very cautious in rolling it out,

⏹️ ▶️ John confining it only to M1 models which already have a reasonable amount of RAM and I think it’ll be great because like

⏹️ ▶️ John SSDs are way faster than they were, you know, even just a few years ago and you know, you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John want to swap but on an iPad class machine with an M1 in it, I think it’s perfectly fine. I don’t think anyone

⏹️ ▶️ John will even notice, especially since, as you noted, Up until this point, every

⏹️ ▶️ John single iOS or iPadOS app out there has lived in a world where it is, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, moments away from using too much RAM and getting killed. Like, because there was no alternative. If you fill up

⏹️ ▶️ John the RAM, something’s getting killed. It’s either gonna be you or other stuff that’s running in the background, but eventually it will be you

⏹️ ▶️ John if you keep using memory, which is not how it is on the Mac. If you have a Mac, you have to keep using memory. It can

⏹️ ▶️ John use memory for a real long time before anything happens to it, right? But every single existing iPadOS app

⏹️ ▶️ John exists in this brutal world of low RAM. So they’re gonna be model citizens, at least

⏹️ ▶️ John initially, in this world with swap. We’ll see how it goes after that, but I think, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s long overdue. And again, look at how someone with like an eight gig MacBook Air and ask them

⏹️ ▶️ John like, do you notice your machine swapping a lot? Does it bog down and get slowed? No, these machines are phenomenal. The M1 is amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this will be, it’ll be great. And I think it will actually take a long time for

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad apps to start abusing this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and this is how, you know, if you look at what they announced, like you’re able to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to four windows on screen at a time per monitor, and you can have external monitors now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with iPads where you have just more space, like the way monitors have worked on the Mac forever. So like, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a huge feature right there. I’m like, wow, external monitors now are much more useful. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can then theoretically have up to eight apps with their windows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John on screen at once.

⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t know that was a limit. You can only have four windows? What

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is this?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s how, yeah, Craig said during the presentation, I can create groups of three and even four windows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can have up to eight apps running simultaneously with an external display.

⏹️ ▶️ John So how many apps and windows do you think you can have simultaneously on an eight gigabyte MacBook Air?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco We’re using apps that are- Are any of them Chrome?

⏹️ ▶️ John Then

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco one.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m saying like, using apps that are not used to living in a world where they get killed if they use too much memory.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just like you can have so many windows open on a MacBook Air, you can have so many apps open, right? And they all

⏹️ ▶️ John run really well. and it’s like, I guess, I mean, yeah, baby steps on the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well, keep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in mind too, like iPads are really small screens. Like, you know, the 12.9 is the biggest, but you know, when you’re looking at like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the iPad Air, that’s a, you know, 10 and a half inch or 11 inch-ish screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, four windows on an iPad Air, that’s gonna be cramped enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think you’d want a lot more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John than that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Some of them could be like, like a mini player for Spotify up in the corner, plus a little YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ John thing playing in there. Like just, you know, when you have the ability to have multiple windows, people can do things like they would

⏹️ ▶️ John do on desktop platforms, which is, well, some of my apps have a very tiny window just

⏹️ ▶️ John for a music player in the corner or just for the thing that I’m watching a video and plus a little tiny sticky

⏹️ ▶️ John note over there. Like the windows add up if you are allowed to have small ones and can arrange things, which

⏹️ ▶️ John this whole thing, this whole iPadOS 16, the feature set, the desktop

⏹️ ▶️ John class apps and everything, it makes me think once again that it’s kind of a shame that the biggest

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad you can get is the size of Apple’s smallest laptop screen? Because once you have

⏹️ ▶️ John an OS where you wanna have a desktop class apps, multiple windows, external display to support,

⏹️ ▶️ John cursor support, keyboard support, and the biggest screen you can get is 13 inches? Where’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the 16 inch iPad Pro? Where is the, you know, I’m not even saying drafting table, like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, 16 inch, who would ever wanna lug around something like that? People lug around 16 inch laptops. They have a keyboard attached and they have

⏹️ ▶️ John a 16 inch screen, it’s fine. Like these still now, I feel like at this point,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve added enough features to the OS, that now the OS is asking the hardware to get bigger. Before you could argue that wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John the case unless you were an artist and just needed a bigger canvas, but you’re like, well, that, you know, 16 inch, that would be

⏹️ ▶️ John wasted. But now that you can have multiple windows and the center stage stuff along the side and everything,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s time for a bigger iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, possibly. I’m surprised by external display support in the sense that, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we finally got it. It’s one of those things that we’ve been waiting and waiting and waiting, we can get baby steps, baby steps, baby

⏹️ ▶️ Casey steps, but it’s here. But yeah, I don’t know, I’m a little bummed that all this is M1 only.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My understanding from having talked to a couple birdies is that that’s not just to push people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like me to upgrade, that there are components of the M1 that made this possible or portions of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this possible. But nevertheless, it might finally be time for me to retire my four-year-old 2018

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad Pro. Maybe it’s time to upgrade. Although that’s a bummer because I don’t feel like now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the middle of summer is the right time to upgrade an iPad. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco we’ll see. Well, they just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco updated the Pro, like fairly, you know, the Pro was like what, last fall? And then the Air was this past spring?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that’s pretty recent for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John hardware.

⏹️ ▶️ John What part of the M1, besides having more RAM, do you think would be necessary for the features described here?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wonder, you know, the M1 ones, they probably have faster storage controllers and faster SSDs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to begin with.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I believe that’s what it is. I’m not certain about that. I could have that totally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I feel like the RAM limit alone is reason enough,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? But- The RAM is probably the biggest limit, but I bet like, you know, faster performance and the other stuff is probably part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it as well. Also, you know, the M1 models also support Thunderbolt out of their butts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I wonder if, you know, they just wanted that to be, you know, better for like, you know, supporting more displays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah, speaking of Thunderbolt, that’s the other thing for iPadOS 16, the support for driver kit. So third parties can write

⏹️ ▶️ John drivers for hardware that you can’t connect because it only has one port.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John again, these things are back, They’re so powerful. You’ve got the OS is becoming more powerful, the hardware is more powerful.

⏹️ ▶️ John Driver kit, I know, I know, you do a breakout box and so on and so forth. I just feel like there’s a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of room on these iPads for more than one Thunderbolt port. All

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let’s wrap it up for today. We’ve been going a long time. Thank you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much to our sponsors this week, Memberful, Collide, and Trade Coffee.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And thank you to our members who support us directly. You can join slash join,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we will talk to you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research,

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental And you can find the

⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Auntie Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tech podcast, so long.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is it finally time to talk about the important stuff? The food? Yes! Tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me about the boxed lunches and boxed breakfast and boxed all the things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so I have to disclaim that the media people were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, we didn’t have the same menu as the developers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey because we were not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the main Capcom X area. We were like on this like little like top deck area above it. So we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey had- Literally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey above

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone else. So we had very similar things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Some of the same dishes, and just this big buffet, you go up and take whatever you want. I did have a pastry for John.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had some avocado toast that included the micro horseradish.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had a bunch of, they had vegan sushi. They had little turkey sandwiches, little egg salad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. There were so much, and I have to say, and there were two different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco meals, breakfast and a lunch, And I have to say the food was very, very good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And even though it was clearly made in large quantity, being served kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at room temperature, because that’s how you do these large events, it was miles above and beyond

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any conference center food I’ve ever had. So much better. Anybody who has anything bad to say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about this food has not traveled enough, or has not gone to enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco corporate cafeterias, or enough conference centers, or enough hotels or anything, because it was fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say the micro horseradish was also micro in taste. I did not taste it at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all. I didn’t see any bagels available

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in our area, so I couldn’t have tried those. I also didn’t see the lasagna available. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything I had was great. They had all sorts of great fruit flavors and spice flavors,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it was really, really nice. They had fresh-squeezed juices,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole coffee bar that I didn’t even use I went to Phil’s earlier in the morning. Paul

⏹️ ▶️ John Krugman They have Odwalla? That’s the real question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jim Collins No, Odwalla doesn’t exist anymore. Remember?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s gone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Paul Krugman Well, maybe they had a strategic reserve.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Jim

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Collins

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, they had special apple juices, and not apple juice, but juices by Apple, the company.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But yeah, it was really great. And again, it’s like yet another reason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why, wow, this was way better than the old way of doing the conference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way because, yeah, among all the other benefits, the food is also a massive step up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nice. So, what did you, it was the appetizers for breakfast or for lunch you were talking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about? Like the avocado toast, that was a breakfast thing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What I said was kind of an amalgamation of both. Like they had,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the avocado toast was there for breakfast. The vegan sushi was lunch. Some of the sandwiches were breakfast. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had this great like falafel sandwich for lunch. They had turkey sandwiches. They, you know, they had, and, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and by sandwich, I mean like, you know, they had like little wedges pre-cut and you just go grab whatever you want. So it was, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco small pieces and you take whatever you want. Again, and this is, I’m sorry, this is just the media section. I don’t know. I didn’t see,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, we weren’t allowed to go to the developer section. They might have had like larger portions and different things there as we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saw on that menu. But yeah, it was just really good. And even the little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco croissant was really good. They had these little like fruit cones. They had the cute little Caesar salads that were in these like, almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like these little like crowns. Like it was just really good food. I was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very, very impressed. I think I was even more excited about the food than I was about iPadOS. Like it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was, iPadOS was a pretty big update, but the food was just that much better than what I was expecting. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was very, very good.

⏹️ ▶️ John I saw a lot of pictures of people posting like from the day before the keynote where they were visiting the developer center and they had

⏹️ ▶️ John like a bunch of people holding trays with food. Like one of the things a lot of people took pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John of is they’re holding trays with like basically donuts or donuts or some kind of pastries and things. And I was so

⏹️ ▶️ John struck by it. So first of all, the tray was like, you know, sort of pale wood kind of bamboo looking thing

⏹️ ▶️ John with like a rectangular thing with like one inch high like wall around the edges of the tray.

⏹️ ▶️ John And on it were these pastry slash donut things. And there were like eight of them.

⏹️ ▶️ John One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight in perfect geometrical arrangement with like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John one inch board. Each one was on a square napkin and each square napkin had a one inch border around it. And all

⏹️ ▶️ John of them geometrically, it’s like, first of all, if you saw that at a conference center, if there

⏹️ ▶️ John was a tray, they’d fit as many of those things on the tray as they could possibly fit. And second of all, they wouldn’t be neatly arranged

⏹️ ▶️ John and perfectly centered in the napkins. It looked so nice that you felt like no one would want to touch it because by grabbing

⏹️ ▶️ John one, you’ve now ruined the symmetry. And then these pastries look huge and

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, not particularly to my taste, but they look like you were grabbing like a miniature personal cake for yourself.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they look

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey very

⏹️ ▶️ John sticky and very gooey and very like, I don’t know if it was a forced perspective thing or whatever, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it could finish one of those things. It’d be like you have to take it and like cut it into four pieces. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John four people could share one of them. But anyway, it looked it looked very fancy, very ritzy and

⏹️ ▶️ John very caloric.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, no expense was spared. I mean, this this is true, I think of all everything about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Park and the developer center and the visitor center. Like no expense is spared.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that makes sense for the world’s richest company. Like, you know, usually, you know, Apple in in many areas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is quite stingy with some of their prior decisions and everything, but they were not stingy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with any part of building that building or the other buildings next to it. They were not stingy with any part of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the food or this event or anything. It was incredible. I mean, heck, the event was free. You paid to get yourself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, but when you get there, there’s no ticket or anything. It’s free. It was really great. Yeah, very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just overall, I have only amazing things to say about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the event and the campus and the buildings, But yeah, just the event

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in general, this is such a clear win over the previous ways of doing things. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though we didn’t have to pay for tickets, and even though they were serving us all these expensive personal cakes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I suspect this still cost them way less money than renting out a conference center for a week and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the logistics involved in that. This is probably way cheaper for them, and it’s way better. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, I think this has got to be the only way to go going forward, and that’ll be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better.

⏹️ ▶️ John Thank you, Mark, for demonstrating the thing I was describing on the last episode about press junkets

⏹️ ▶️ John for car journalists. Because like you get people in person in

⏹️ ▶️ John an environment that you can control and you can give them a good time in a way that you can’t like it was when you go to the conference center.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would imagine these conference centers have like contracts, you have to use our one of our approved food suppliers

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff like that and everything. You know, I’m not sure this costs less money because it might have cost more, but at

⏹️ ▶️ John least Apple can get what it wants and has no constraints about like, look, you want to have it in this convention center, here’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the deal. And you can have it someplace else if you want, but if you want to do it here, you have to use our food vendor and you have to do this and

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to do that. And that makes Apple limited. Apple may have wanted to give us better Baclunches, but they literally

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t unless they didn’t have it in Moscow in a year, didn’t have it in McHenry, right? Whereas if they have it on campus,

⏹️ ▶️ John all those limitations go away and they can do whatever the heck they want. Even if it includes putting only four pastries

⏹️ ▶️ John on a tray, they could hold 97 of them. Beep, beep, beep.