439: Eventually Converge on Correctness
15 Jul 2021Spaces, Safari beta UI tweaks, the design feedback loop, photo-ingest updates, and shocking news from Casey.
Episode Description:
- Pre-show:
- Casey’s macOS Bug Report
- Math Emporium
- Follow-up:
- New Safari tab interface in Monterey beta 3
- Elective AppleCare+ Repairs
- Photo Ingest
- Photo Mechanic
- Lightning to SD Card Camera Reader
- “Made for Apple Photos”?
- The Aeron was revised in 2017 (via Alexander)
- Casey’s Shocking News
- Post-show bonus
#askatp: Does Adam still wear his Apple Watch? (via Andrew Blomquist)
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Chapters
- Casey Spaces out
- Mac Safari UI tweak 🖼️
- Sponsor: Mack Weldon (code atppodcast)
- iPhone Safari UI proposal 🖼️
- John’s Safari UI proposal 🖼️
- Design feedback loop
- Sponsor: Made In (code ATP)
- AppleCare for cosmetic damage
- Photo-ingest follow-up
- Aeron chair follow-up
- Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
- Casey got a family
- Ending theme
- #askaftershow: Kid Watch status
Casey Spaces out
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s w w d c season kind of and since w w d
⏹️ ▶️ Casey c is coming up what soonish right i would like to file i would like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to file a request slash bug report i was trying to get my windows organized and i and we’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talked about this in the past i am a devout spaces person and last i recall talking about it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey um i think neither of you enjoy spaces this is the like virtual desktop thing but i really like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it it helps me stay organized it works for me and what was happening was i had opened several
⏹️ ▶️ Casey apps and they were strewn across like three or four different spaces instead of doing my beloved tiling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey setup that i that i do every every week when we record the show so i like to have skype
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or now zoom in the upper left i like to have chrome in the uper right i like to have textual friese in the lower left and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a visual studio code for note taking as in the show notes on the bottom right
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i was getting just as everywhere and that is the one time that spaces really gets
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my nerves is one i just wanted everything to open in one shot in one place and that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was trend everywhere and it’s very frustrating and i know that there are ways like i think was it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a keyboard my stroke and automate some of this if i really wanted to i probably could write applescript to do it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i haven’t gotten to the point of doing that yet or maybe shortcuts soon but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is the moment that i hate spaces now my bug report however is only tangentially related and i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think i’ve complained about this before but i would like to complain about it again because this is this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is all we do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here yes exactly when it’s every once in a while and it’s been on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last like six releases of os ten i will click on the dock to go
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to an ap app that is in a different space so for example i have my quartet of windows here
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the windows of casey county you could say and uh and i click on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the messages app icon in the dock which slides me one screen to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the right which is where messages is well then i click back on let’s say
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t know textual and sometimes what will happen is the animation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will happen and i will slide back to the left which is where that screen is in relation to the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one that has messages and then with no intervention on my part it will ship me back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the right and take me back to messages okay let me try that again i do this every time happen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for years i do it everytime alright et me try one more time surely that was the fluke just that one time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey surely and i’ll click on the textual icon one more time whatever i said a second ago
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’ll click the same icon one more time this has been going on for years i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have no reasonable way of recreating it but the next time it happens i’m going to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to start a cross country trip to drop my eye mac off with a very large battery pack apparently drop my imac
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John craigslist so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah at craigslist so i most said and i was like no that’s not going to help me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all if he was the one drop doing the dropping
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s exactly right so i’ll have to drop my computer off at craig’s house and get him to fix this because it is driving me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bananas so since w w d c is right around the corner right right now it’s the time to ask so here
⏹️ ▶️ John make a screen recording with your phone don’t try to use the screen recording feature cause that could perturb whatever was
⏹️ ▶️ John happen the second time but it seems like if it happens the second time pretty reliably the first time it happens take off that
⏹️ ▶️ John phone dear little handheld video and say what the heck is this and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey problem i agree i agree with you full stop the problem though is that usually i have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sensitive enough things on my screen that i don’t really want to broadcast it publicly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we all know radars a waste of time so i don’t want to and i would put in radar but nobody ever looks at radar so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey why bother so i i don’t really know the right answer i think though i just need to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey either like go and final cut pro and like you’ll put black or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John you can to redact it or whatever but just having it for your records so you know
⏹️ ▶️ John make make a recording and then then you can see if he’s nothing on screen you care about and if there is then you
⏹️ ▶️ John you know ask when how to redact things in video
⏹️ ▶️ Casey indeed but that would make me use a final cupro again and apparently we all hate
⏹️ ▶️ Casey final cupro now because they changed a blade to scissors it
⏹️ ▶️ John changed back and rise at a big a big deal oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you were seeing you said with such authority i thought you were
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what that’s what i said replied to great when he complained about it but like they used to do that all the time when i was a kid
⏹️ ▶️ John like if you didn’t like some ui element in an ap all those things were just resources you know
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco resource working elastic
⏹️ ▶️ John maces and reset it had a bitmap editor built into resets wire it
⏹️ ▶️ John up pop in there and you know just change change the cursor to be what you want to be of course
⏹️ ▶️ John these days i mean obviously we don’t use resource forks and we don’t use resources and some people would say oh it’s even
⏹️ ▶️ John easier in the next world all those things are probably just like tiff files or pdf files that are inside the app
⏹️ ▶️ John bundle right and so it’s it’s easier than rested its files and directories code signing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s where they got a good point good point i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco don’t think about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are all the resources code signed or just the binary
⏹️ ▶️ John there is a way to exclude things from code signing and not everything is included in code signing but my baseline assumption
⏹️ ▶️ John is that anything i want to change in an ap i just assume it’s part of the signature
⏹️ ▶️ John even bother trying but hey if someone wants to dive into final cut and of course the other thing is you know these days the
⏹️ ▶️ John the prevalence of sort of network based updates ah you’re just going to be chasing your tail forever
⏹️ ▶️ John like back in the old days you’d get a floppy from your mac user group and like you’d get the app and you reset it and
⏹️ ▶️ John it would stay that way essentially forever because how else would the ap change all right unless you got a
⏹️ ▶️ John new version of it or something but these days every ap sort of updates itself or gets updated by the mac
⏹️ ▶️ John app store or whatever and all of you are even if you’re able to get past the the code
⏹️ ▶️ John a signature because it doesn’t apply to the thing you want to change your change is just going to get overwritten
⏹️ ▶️ John by the next update so it’s kind of frustrating but yeah in some ways it is better and simpler now with
⏹️ ▶️ John just files and directories but in other ways the ah the mac and resource forks
⏹️ ▶️ John of the past with no permissions on anything in a single user system really did let you change whatever the value
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know there’s a part of me that regrets it may be a little strong but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but kind of wishes that i had spent more time on classic mac os cause i did a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey little bit in computer labs here and there growing up but i barely touched a mac
⏹️ ▶️ Casey until what was it two thousand eight the marconi were arguing about it on tumbler i’d use
⏹️ ▶️ Casey them from time to time but very rarely that actually in college there was a a big
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like walmart sized like warehouse sized room i’m sure i brought this up several
⏹️ ▶️ Casey times on the show called the math emporium where they had a ton of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what it was the cube looking thing that overheated a lot i think what was that called at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the time any of the cube the cube
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought it was like get something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there you go i believe that’s what it was but anyway so i spent some time with a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with max then but other than that in computer labs when i was a young kid i very rarely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey spent any uh spent spent any time with max and i kind of wish that i had spent more
⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to better appreciate and or understand and or loath a classic mac
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it was great it
⏹️ ▶️ John was so much fun to play with like you know because as everything was open there’s no kind of security pre
⏹️ ▶️ John internet and you know tools like reset it that were if not you know they didn’t really come with the s
⏹️ ▶️ John but they were available for apple for free or readily available in your back user group anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John ah just the freedom to just tinker you know but even before without knowing any programming which i didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John to just be able to take dive into your favorite app or game for that matter because a lot of the you know mac
⏹️ ▶️ John games used resource works as well as how to talk to those before i changed all the sprites and crystal
⏹️ ▶️ John quest the game that i was obsessed with and essentially copied the app and in my copy i just used the pixel
⏹️ ▶️ John editor and reset it over the course of days and weeks and drew my own custom versions of all the sprites then i
⏹️ ▶️ John could play that game it was like making making
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco your own game where all
⏹️ ▶️ John i was doing was redrawing the sprites obviously but it was was awesome lots of fun you missed out
Mac Safari UI tweak
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right let’s start with some follow up and breaking news just before we recorded
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there is a new safari tab interface in monterey beta three now i have barely had the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to look at this and i apologize i am falling down on my job as chief summarize in chief but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i guess it looks less dumb question mark i
⏹️ ▶️ John mean i have time to install it but barely because those always updates take forever for whatever reason
⏹️ ▶️ John um so at last episode we were talking about you know how the question of whether
⏹️ ▶️ John apple would continue to make small tweaks and concessions like adding a reload butting in and a share button to
⏹️ ▶️ John the toolbar or whatever or whether they would realize that none of no appeasement of that type is going to
⏹️ ▶️ John suffice and their design is fundamentally flawed their approach of sticking everything into one horizontal
⏹️ ▶️ John error and have everything everything fight it out and having your tab turn into the address bar when you click on and all
⏹️ ▶️ John those things and so apparently in bay to three um they
⏹️ ▶️ John have more or less gone back on that there’s still an option to change it back to the old way as if anyone actually
⏹️ ▶️ John wants that it feels kind of weird that they would include that but what they’ve changed it back to is
⏹️ ▶️ John something much more like the current safari on big sar so or you know or
⏹️ ▶️ John version the top bar has your window widgets a configurable to bar that includes an address bar
⏹️ ▶️ John and then below that a line of tabs from edge to edge and your browser and then below that of
⏹️ ▶️ John the bookmarks bar has returned to the place where you can put little folders file bookmarks or javascript bookmarklet
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever the hell right and so it’s basically you know they’ve gone from oh we want this all to be in one
⏹️ ▶️ John road to saying okay well people don’t like that so here we are back to the old solution um a couple things about
⏹️ ▶️ John this though first the tabs that are below the address bar they still look
⏹️ ▶️ John like the rounded rectangles that used to be up there mingling with the address bar and in the previous versions so
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re still they still don’t look like tabs they’ll look like the rounded things and one of the
⏹️ ▶️ John side effects of that design because that design is like a it a like a greyish rounded rectangle with
⏹️ ▶️ John your fave icon and and the tab tax text right and then there’s spacing you know padding between these
⏹️ ▶️ John round wrecks if you compare the height of the address
⏹️ ▶️ John bar plus tab bar in monterey versus big sur now monterey is taller
⏹️ ▶️ John so it actually takes up more vertical space by about eight points then the previous
⏹️ ▶️ John version almost like a punishment like fine you want it to be on two we tried to save you a whole row of space but you didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John like it so you want to have two rows fine now it actually it’s just a side effective probably of the design and the white space
⏹️ ▶️ John they need to have but anyway it is actually taller which is weird and the second question is
⏹️ ▶️ John why are they rounded rectangles back when they were transforming into the address bar it kind of made sense
⏹️ ▶️ John from like a transformational perspective to change from a narrow rounded rectangle to a wider one that
⏹️ ▶️ John contains the address bar like it’s less jarring if that’s the design you’re going with but
⏹️ ▶️ John now that they’re on a line of of their own it doesn’t make any sense for them to
⏹️ ▶️ John not look like tabs and when i say look like tabs i don’t mean like oh you just think whatever the previous
⏹️ ▶️ John look like is tabs in your mind i mean look like tabs as in like the
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of visual you know metaphor the physical analogue there they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John you know reminding you of from the real world which is like tabs on tabbed folders a little piece
⏹️ ▶️ John of something that pokes out that is connected to a larger thing right and when you have a bunch of them all next
⏹️ ▶️ John to each other there are dividing lines between them so you can distinguish you know this tab from that
⏹️ ▶️ John tab from that tab right these don’t look like that they don’t connect anything they’re just floating they look like
⏹️ ▶️ John little ladder bars because that’s what they used to be all that said apple has indicated
⏹️ ▶️ John to everyone who has spoken to them it seems that more changes are on the way so just because
⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like this now doesn’t mean it’s going to look like this forever more changes by the way are on their way for ipad
⏹️ ▶️ John and ios as well so i think some of them have changed a little bit in the latest betas but some of them haven’t changed at all but anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John more changes on the way so this is all good that they have
⏹️ ▶️ John at least realized the previous design wasn’t working for everybody and now gives you an option for a much more conventional design
⏹️ ▶️ John but again if you look at this and say okay well i’m going to compare this design to the one in
⏹️ ▶️ John big sur pigs are still better because it takes a up less vertical space and the tabs look more like taps
⏹️ ▶️ John right the one thing this has oh and a few more things that they reverted
⏹️ ▶️ John um the back and forward buttons no longer have to like they no longer have
⏹️ ▶️ John to hide like the forward button when there’s nothing to go forward to because they are so desert or horizontal space right so
⏹️ ▶️ John back forward is now always there and if you can’t go forward it’s great out right now so it’s back forward
⏹️ ▶️ John is always back forward so thumbs up on that the reload button is still there it’s still you know you can
⏹️ ▶️ John pull it from the plain customized to bart is still small but now it goes in the right direction is clockwise
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah what do you think the likelihood is that somebody at apple heard you complaining
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about this and changed it because of you
⏹️ ▶️ John zero um there’s a thousand people at apple who know it’s supposed to go clockwise and they told that six weeks ago they told
⏹️ ▶️ John everybody why is there a button backwards fix it and then it took six weeks for it to get us there’s zero chance that
⏹️ ▶️ John i had anything to do that this is not a this is not a unique insight everyone now which direction are low bun goes
⏹️ ▶️ John it is still too small and also it’s still if anyone listening to this so we can check six
⏹️ ▶️ John weeks from now it still doesn’t disable and there’s nothing to reload all come on come
⏹️ ▶️ John on night the far button disables when there’s nothing to go forward to a good job there the reload button doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John um and then yeah the bookmarks bar i mean it was that even
⏹️ ▶️ John was that even available in the previous version i think no i kind of wish i hadn’t either updated as i
⏹️ ▶️ John could check it like in the old one when it was all one line was the bookmark
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m sorry i misunderstood you i don’t know actually
⏹️ ▶️ John anyway that that is more or less unchanged from how it isn’t big sir um
⏹️ ▶️ John a good job apple for hearing either hearing the cries from outside apple or potentially
⏹️ ▶️ John hearing the cries from inside apple everything keep minded everything we receive here in the outside world including
⏹️ ▶️ John the vel rebates is you know days or weeks removed from when this change was actually made inside apple so
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re kind of living in apples past perpetually so we can’t it’s hard to you know what case he was
⏹️ ▶️ John getting at it’s hard to actually connect anything that we complain about on a podcast or someone blogs about what apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ John actions but you know even though we may be a trailing indicator of our opinions i’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ John are also echoed inside apple and then i’m glad to see them taking some steps in this direction it is still a little
⏹️ ▶️ John bit concerning that they still have the old version as an option because it’s like the whole what reason you’re doing the change is because so many
⏹️ ▶️ John people didn’t like the old one are there you know fervent fans of the old option that makes like
⏹️ ▶️ John what other app from apple has two entirely different you eyes granted there’s not much there’s not much you i
⏹️ ▶️ John to speak of in a web browser it’s mostly the webpage but anyway as far as the eye exist the
⏹️ ▶️ John two bar in the web browser is it for a web browser and apple’s going to ship an app that has two entirely
⏹️ ▶️ John different you eyes up there seems very un apple like and maybe they just didn’t get around
⏹️ ▶️ John to falling exercising that code or maybe they just don’t want to make the people who design that feel bad
⏹️ ▶️ John i will be watching the next day this to see if the option to switch back to the one that nobody likes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i’m i’m very glad to see that they are now changing big things you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they they started out the last couple of betas changing small things and we were all you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco screaming and yelling like this this is on fire people and they’re like changing a little tiny thing so this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is good in the sense that you know i think i think the the previous one was definitely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco massively on fire and they changed a big thing now they they put the tabs back to where
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tab should be and i think you know you’re right john they don’t look like tabs and in particular
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tabs the reason why tabs have been used in interfaces for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco literally decades quite successfully and across many different platforms in many different contexts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is because they visually make sense people get them and they also don’t look bad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so you know when you look at browser today you know not not this news so far but like i look
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a regular release browser today the concept of like what’s the current tab
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is extremely clear you can tell very quickly what tab you’re on it it’s very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco obvious that i think is the biggest area where this one falls down in addition to as you mentioned you know just the waste
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of space it’s hard to tell what the current tab is unless you look very carefully at a very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very low contrast difference between two colors especially
⏹️ ▶️ John if you have two tabs that’s always the problem with trying to indicate state with a subtle shift in in like tint
⏹️ ▶️ John if you just have two of them it’s not always obvious if the lighter or darker one is supposed to be the active one it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a guessing game you don’t have to do if you implement tabs in a way that again reflects the real world
⏹️ ▶️ John where a tab would be attached to a larger thing and so you just see where it’s attached to see where there is no line dividing
⏹️ ▶️ John it that’s the active one because it attaches to the toolbar or everyone to conceptualizes that’s how
⏹️ ▶️ John you can tell what the current tab is in safari and big circus it’s the tab that connects to the
⏹️ ▶️ John address bar without a dividing line right exactly
⏹️ ▶️ John there is also a tint to it but you don’t have to worry about the tent
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i feel like reinventing tabs is kind of like reinventing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco buttons in the ui you know you can try it you can try to totally you know if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want to make check boxes that don’t look anything like check boxes that don’t even have like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know any kind of indicating checkmark that just maybe like you click it and like it slides over or something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some totally different visual look but the functionality is supposed to be like a check box like you can do that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but your customers are going to show you or tell you at some point that’s not successful and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that checkboxes were fine and they should look like check boxes and that’s how people expect them to look and that’s how
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they will work if they look you know like that i think that this is you’re not the exact same problem with tabs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were trying to design an interface that is functionally tabs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that doesn’t look anything like tabs is not going to work very well and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so this is a good this is a very good you know temporary step and i get the feeling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco based on the pace of these changes and the severity of these changes i get the feeling that like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think inside apple they do know that so far as you are is kind of on fire and they are rushing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to to fix it so i’m i’m heartened by that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they need to go further like this this is not enough i’m glad to see this they need to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go further and and i think and i hope that they will
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iPhone Safari UI proposal
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now as for the iphone version of safari they went slightly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco far in that like so in this latest round bet as it came out today the ivan version of safari made
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a significant change in that normally before in this beta series when you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would tap the big giant annoying floating bar on the bottom to enter an address or type
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a search query when you would focus on the text field it would fly to the top of the screen and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’d be typing into the text field way at the top of the screen for some reason and that was very disorienting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it made it hard to do muscle memory and to locate it visually and everything else so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this new one they have basically turned the address bar into a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing that attaches to the top of the keyboard window so as the keyboard window slides
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the that giant horrible translucent bar translucent blob really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not really a bar bar doesn’t go the way across um that giant translucent blob turns into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a grey opaque bar with the blob in the middle of it that sticks to the top of the keyboard as it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slides up so it ends up you know in the middle of the screen roughly because that’s on top of the keyboard instead of floating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the top this is an improvement but this is still not a good design
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i’m really again i’m i’m encouraged i am heartened to see they’re moving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the right direction here the right direction is basically take everything new about this and throw it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco away and go back to the way it was because that was better but they’re going in the right direction
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i’m cool with that even though they still have a long way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to go on the iphone and the mac version is getting closer to normal the iphone still has a long way to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go and i have my own ideas on that i should i should i was going to say i should blog about it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i should i really shouldn’t i probably
⏹️ ▶️ John won’t but by the time you got the block bus up another beta would be out and i it would be out of date it’s hard to blog
⏹️ ▶️ John about betas because
⏹️ ▶️ John not a permanent thing like think if you had written a big blog post about it and then they just change the mac version right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that would be the top post on my site for six months um exactly and ever
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so maybe a show
⏹️ ▶️ John but i still haven’t used the iphone version oh it’s still it’s still pretty bad but
⏹️ ▶️ John what you’re saying is like oh they should go back to the other way i think i’m kind of with what casey has said about his
⏹️ ▶️ John experience with it and that i like the idea of a lot of the you are being down at the bottom
⏹️ ▶️ John um i don’t know if that necessarily includes the address bar but i feel like sticking
⏹️ ▶️ John to the top of the keyboard it is a reasonable like the reason the reason
⏹️ ▶️ John i would want it to be down low is like i don’t know if this is still the case in
⏹️ ▶️ John i was fifteen but for pretty good reasons auto correct is not the same in the address
⏹️ ▶️ John bar because you can you imagine trying to type in the name of some company that misspell his name like you generally generally lets you type
⏹️ ▶️ John what you want and then you realize how much you rely on auto correct because very often when you’re typing something in the address bar
⏹️ ▶️ John you know you have mistakes and so that’s why i want the address bar be to be near where my thumbs can
⏹️ ▶️ John reach when they’re typing so i can reposition the thing and i know you can just hold down on the keyboard and you get the insertion
⏹️ ▶️ John point or whatever but i just feel like having everything localized to that area makes me feel more
⏹️ ▶️ John comfortable you know placing the insertion point the old fashioned way or if i want to actually drag it or select
⏹️ ▶️ John a piece of it or whatever you know like that i think that’s a reasonable compromise doesn’t take away the
⏹️ ▶️ John the other bad things about the floating bar and how it doesn’t pin to the bottom and all that other stuff but i’m not
⏹️ ▶️ John you know again saying this is someone who’s still not used the iphone safari fifteen i’m still not entirely
⏹️ ▶️ John willing to give up on the idea that is it is actually better to have more crap in on the bottom of the safari you on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no and i agree with you on that like actually having used this for you know a few weeks now i am on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco board with putting things on the bottom that are that are the things that you need most and i think the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the search slash address bar is one of those things so conceptually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that does make sense as an error to explore and i think there’s a way that you could get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something good and use lot of this i guess i don’t have to talk about it i’ll just talk about the wonders of broadcasting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco uh what i would change about this in in broad strokes i don’t want to get too specific
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because frankly i haven’t put that much thought into it because it i just came out today but what i what i would change in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco broad strokes is the bar that like right now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it goes between the kind of like long pill shaped like the big like floating oval
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that has this giant drop shadow that overlays the web page and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you scroll it shrinks down to an opaque skinny bar that just has the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the like domain name on it and you can tap that i like to then bring up the big floating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco giant shadow bar to me that distinction needs to be reduced it’s still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too jarring it still changes too much and frankly i think having that big floating bar when
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s when it’s in like blob mode on top of the text of the web page with a giant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco drop shadow so it stands out and you can see it looks terrible it makes everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco under it incredibly unreadable and cluttered looking and it’s serving no purpose whatsoever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for us to see what is behind that bar at that moment because again it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco covered in a giant rapture you can only see a couple words of it anyway and it’s and it’s cluttered and unreadable so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole concept of having the like active mode of that bar float above
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom area of the screen i think is a design failure which can be very easily remedied make it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a tool bar tool bars go all the way across and they have a like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know point five pixel border on top and then a tiny little drop shadow on top of that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so they stand out from the content so it not only saves a ton of space but is way more readable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is permanently stood out from the page i know that they’re they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all about having the background extend under and around everything for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons i’m still not convinced of those reasons but i know that’s the direction they go with their design right now fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay we can have more background colour and break everybody’s webpage you is but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this particular aspect of this design if that tool bar if the if the the like active version
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that was also an opaque bar that went all the way across and went straight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the bottom just like the like inactive version of it is where it shrinks down to just the name of the of the domain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would be a substantially better looking you eye so that that would fix a lot about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the clutter and the the weird that that massive drops out of it i think is is a travesty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of design in context of putting it over web page text that would fix those major issues
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now there are still other issues with this i do think if you’re going to have the address bar at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom having it set up with the keyboard and be right above the keyboard is not bad i think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s probably a good compromise for where to put the address bar then the question
⏹️ ▶️ Marco becomes what do you do with all the other functionality because right now one of the big problems i have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with this design inactive use is that everything just takes more taps
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the common case if you’re reading web page and want to do something go to a different webpage close
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the webpage reload the webpage share it do anything like that search the meals you have to do two
⏹️ ▶️ Marco taps now you have to first tap the shrunk version of the tool bar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you have to either tap the dress bar which is there good okay or you have to tap the ellipsis
⏹️ ▶️ Marco button and then tap whatever you want from there so it’s like everything is more and more taps away
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s under more modes and junk drawers and everything else that needs to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco collapsed in its hierarchy like like you know flattened the organization like that needs to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fewer taps to do common things fewer modes fewer different changes of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is constantly bouncing between so i know this is radical apple however
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one thing we have in great surplus on these modern phones
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is vertical space we have tons of vertical space
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re about you’re about to introduce the ribbon aren’t you no god no
⏹️ ▶️ John no apple calls it the ribbon comes around the bottom of the screen you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what i’m going to introduce toolbars holy crap toolbars
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they i know i know you invented them in the stone age example they’re still the best solution
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a lot of cases and i think what this needs to be is a tool bar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that doesn’t change to two different modes or three different modes or four different modes just a tool bar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is fixed in size and position that always shows the same controls
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that way you don’t have to tap it in extra time to wake it up to do something else you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to worry about what how how it’s going to expand and contract and all the different problems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that arise from that you don’t have to worry about what content is going to be under and behind it because there is no content
⏹️ ▶️ Marco under and behind it it’s so much simpler and it works better and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet when you’re in like the scrolling through a long article mode you might lose twenty points a hide on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom who cares these phones are so tall and skinny we have that space to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco spare you don’t what i do i have the real estate of a tennis and what better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way to use that space than the most commonly used controls being
⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearer faster and easier to act access to me it’s a no brainer give
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a fixed height tool bar that always shows the relevant controls
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i mean it seems logical again i actually am trying to update my whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone is this old phone of mine trying to get on the latest bats so i can fiddle with it a little
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit but in principle i agree with you you know i am not a particularly great
⏹️ ▶️ Casey designer in fact i would say i’m probably a pretty poor designer but i feel like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not it’s table stakes for a user interface to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if not predictable then unsurprising and when things are jumping around
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to you on you all the time it’s infuriating a great example of this and i feel like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple does oh you know what this is is like when you go to the the whatever screen it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey called the today view or whatever on your phone where it has like widgets and things and i’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be looking at the apple news widget which honestly i should just remove from my darn screen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey today view but i haven’t but i’ll be looking at it and i’ll be reading the headlines and i’ll see oh you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know i actually would like to read that and i’ll go to tap on it and by the time i’ve made the decision and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey move my finger to tap on the particular headline it has done a refresh and is now showing me all the new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff another great example of this is like if you’re loading a web page and i can’t think of a particular example but you’re loading
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a web page and you’re trying to find the thing you want you find the link you want and you go to click on it but then
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like some ad at the top or some other you know element in the dom is shrunk or expanded
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or been added or subtracted and suddenly the link you tried to click is moved a hundred pixels north
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or south and it is absolutely infuriating it is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey absolutely infuriating when things dance around like that this is what you are saying marco and and i think that for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a user interface it needs to be basically predictable and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i guess i would get used to this dancing about but it doesn’t feel predictable
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the moment or at least in the little bit of time i played with it i think we all agree it certainly sounds like we all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey agree that putting more emphasis on the bottom of the screen is good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s this dancing about and i agree like i’m not as offended by the drop shadows and whatnot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i agree with you that i don’t think they they’re additive i think if anything they make things a little harder
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see which again is what you said but moving stuff to the bottom thumbs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up all this other junk that best a sideways thumb in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two the thumbs down
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to be clear like i’m not saying go back to the old toolbar i’m not even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco commenting on what should be in the tool bar i recognize there’s this is a limited amount
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of horizontal space to cram a certain number of controls in there you know once you have a bar although
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that being said the current you know floating blob with the drop shot of toolbar has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco less horizontal space than it could because it is a floating blob if it was a full width
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fixed position tool bar you could fit at least one more button on it and possibly too depending
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on how much how much you were run to crush the um the address bar but you know moving the address
⏹️ ▶️ Marco part of the bottom okay you know i personally wasn’t looking for that but i could see the argument for a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people doing that that makes sense you know that i think can be can be work shopped but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just have the toolbar be a toolbar cause that’s what it’s functionally trying to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now but it’s being a terrible toolbar now it’s it’s being very hard to both look at and use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if if it wants to be a toolbar logically let it be a toolbar make it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make it a damn good toolbar not this crappy you know floating bouncy thing and in what you’re saying case but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know things bouncing around i think that’s something that we as an industry you know not just even beyond
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple but but certainly apple is part of it or you eyes so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco often lack stability like this it’s such a critical
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you want the ui to be stable you want to not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like not every surface should be live like you know you feel
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if you’re going to like you know pick up the phone or you’re going to like try to select some text on a web page with the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mouse on a desktop or something the like you don’t want every single thing that you could click on or accidently
⏹️ ▶️ Marco brush against with your finger on the phone to be something that is live that does something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want stability you want things to feel solid and predictable and forgiving and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not be so susceptible to to things like accidental input or imprecision
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in an input or things like that that people are doing things unintentionally and you also don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want the you are to be moving around if people are trying to use it and i feel like that there’s you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of the current like the mac design language
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these days of everything being hidden behind hover states and then things animate somewhere out of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way and change where they are like this is all violations of ou i stability it makes everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a hot zone or a live zone and things are jumping around and it’s disorienting and it’s and it’s inefficient
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and it’s unintuitive as well and undiscovered and all sorts of other problems like you know in this case
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything you can do to make you eye more stable in the sense that things don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco move around too much there aren’t too many different modes where things come in and out or slide around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or or pop in or pop out that makes it easier and better and more calm to use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for more people and it’s just it’s a better design if you can do that and i think apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very close to that here i think they can they can take the best of this which is like look if you like the new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new like you know multi tab view and and the tab groups and everything and if you like the idea of moving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco after part of the bottom we can have all of that in a better design this like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of that does not depend on the design being this exact thing we can have all that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a usable visually less distracting and easier to see and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i like your use of stability and stable much more than what i was saying about being predictable
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think that’s a more accurate description because you can be predictable with this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the new safari is predictable it’s just not stable so i appreciate that i think your word is much better
John’s Safari UI proposal
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s a little bit more than stability to bring back my favorite hobby horse it’s what we’re talking about
⏹️ ▶️ John is you know it’s like the spatial finder in that the stability
⏹️ ▶️ John that we’re craving is the stability that we’re used to from interacting with the real world like
⏹️ ▶️ John if we were to arrange items somewhere in front of us and reach for one and as soon as you reach for it it grows and
⏹️ ▶️ John moves to left by five inches if it did that every single time it’s predictable but that’s not the way things
⏹️ ▶️ John act in the real world so our bodies and minds are not attuned to
⏹️ ▶️ John the idea of reach for something and be aware that when you reach for it will always move five inches to the left
⏹️ ▶️ John and you have to anticipate that motion and cause nothing we interact with every day behaves
⏹️ ▶️ John that way in the real world so when we talk about spatial interfaces there are interfaces that take advantage
⏹️ ▶️ John of the skills that we have from both you know evolution and our genes but also our life in the
⏹️ ▶️ John real world where we must manipulate objects in space all the time and every part of our motor system and visual
⏹️ ▶️ John system is tuned to do that so when we say stable what we’re basically saying is
⏹️ ▶️ John behave more like things behave in real life it doesn’t mean you make everything a physical analogue you to put a three
⏹️ ▶️ John d engine in a physics engine ensure you i it simply means that like that it feels
⏹️ ▶️ John unstable to us because it behaves in a way that we don’t expect when
⏹️ ▶️ John virtually are really reaching for something and will tolerate you know the magic of
⏹️ ▶️ John the computer oh that the bar will minimize when we’re not looking at it and then we’ll have to maybe do something
⏹️ ▶️ John to make it get big again right that is reasonable magic of like okay the drawers close the
⏹️ ▶️ John drawers open right you know i’ve shoved that aside and i’ve pulled it back into view right it’s not as if we need
⏹️ ▶️ John everything to be like oh i can’t use the interface unless they actually yank the bar up from the bottom i don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ John how it comes up on its own it’s like we’re not asking for that but once you sort of perturb
⏹️ ▶️ John the you know the the mind body connection the sort of hand eye coordination of going for the thing
⏹️ ▶️ John even if it’s a hundred percent predictable like the little floaty bar is it feels disconcerting
⏹️ ▶️ John it feels annoying because every time we go for it we have to do this little override of our normal
⏹️ ▶️ John oh you’re reaching for a thing it’s oh you’re reaching for a thing and it will be you know fifty points higher
⏹️ ▶️ John than you expect to be in it it’s frustrating um i put in the in our
⏹️ ▶️ John slack channel marker view chap chapter art for this section if you would like
⏹️ ▶️ John i i a thought this is kind of where you were going this or you didn’t go all the way there but i would say for those
⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t look at their chapter art or have a bad podcast player or if margaret doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John put it in it’s the classic picture of like what is it word six in windows ninety five yeah with
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco all the middle bars turned are
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah with who knows if it’s really all of them but so many two bars turned on that there’s one line of text
⏹️ ▶️ John visible in the presumably six forty by four eighty window and everything else is just tool bars or status
⏹️ ▶️ John bars um these type of you know these ridiculous interfaces obviously taken to
⏹️ ▶️ John an extreme like it’s not a great interface in this part of what microsoft
⏹️ ▶️ John went with the ribbon but it has the advantage that it gave the user some
⏹️ ▶️ John flexibility to choose what they had in their tool bar and in general these two
⏹️ ▶️ John bars is ridiculous as they look pretty much you know if you put in the little
⏹️ ▶️ John stripe of the toolbar that has those things in it they pretty much stay there and they’re just there the whole time you’re using the
⏹️ ▶️ John program and they don’t move around when you try to click on them and there wasn’t much contextual
⏹️ ▶️ John like oh when you’re in this mode suddenly a new two or item appears and pushes everything out of the way they were pretty stable to
⏹️ ▶️ John use marcos were behaved more like things that you would arrange in front of you
⏹️ ▶️ John in your workspace right and as marine out on the phone we do actually have a lot of vertical space
⏹️ ▶️ John i think on modern iphones giving people two things one giving the iphone
⏹️ ▶️ John some iphone native analog to configurable tool bars which have been on the mac forever is not
⏹️ ▶️ John a ridiculous idea we had that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually remember the very first iphone had that where you could like change around the order of stuff like in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco music and stuff on the bottom
⏹️ ▶️ John lots of lots of modern iowa have had
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that my one five
⏹️ ▶️ Marco those are tab bars on toolbars
⏹️ ▶️ John we i know the names don’t make any sense but anyway a bar on the screen that has buttons and you can customize them and rearrange
⏹️ ▶️ John them and do all the stuff like that you know but there’s never been like an official os supported like like there hasn’t macos
⏹️ ▶️ John ten had an official you are for this that still exists in many apps including safari for that matter where
⏹️ ▶️ John the sheet comes down and obviously that won’t work on the phone they’d have to be some sort of phone version of that but rather than having every developer
⏹️ ▶️ John all their on have that and the second thing is you know because that lets you fret less about like what
⏹️ ▶️ John the defaults are pick good defaults have a one line to a bar with some like whatever buttons you think are the most important
⏹️ ▶️ John to be always visible but i bet a lot of people would actually appreciate the ability
⏹️ ▶️ John to customize that and b add a second row who wants two rows of buttons i don’t know maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John someone like they want five favorite things or they want to put you know maybe combine it with the
⏹️ ▶️ John bookmarks bar apple ups combining multiple things right like it’s not ridiculous
⏹️ ▶️ John to think that the sort of expanded version of that bottom bar couldn’t survive
⏹️ ▶️ John on like you know an any like anything except for the ifo mini with two rows because when you
⏹️ ▶️ John pull up that large you y you’re about to do a thing share the web page type
⏹️ ▶️ John in a new address a run a javascript bookmarklet to do something to the page
⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re on like whatever you’re going to do a thing at the moment you’re doing that thing you’re not
⏹️ ▶️ John concerned at all with the one extra row of text that is obscured by the now double height tool bar that
⏹️ ▶️ John comes up and the floating blob is way higher than two rows of a stuck to the bottom
⏹️ ▶️ John toolbar would be so this this is obviously not the direction apple is going with any of it is
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all about minimize hide throwing a junk drawer but i think that
⏹️ ▶️ John an iphone and certainly an eye pad sitting on iphone but even just on the iphone a customizable
⏹️ ▶️ John to a bar and the ability to do more than one road not obviously the word six ridiculous
⏹️ ▶️ John thing here where you feel your safari thing or whatever but most people wouldn’t use it most people might not even know that you could ever
⏹️ ▶️ John go to the rose but i think enough people would that is worthwhile because it’s not like
⏹️ ▶️ John you know when you do that it’s not like you are worried about covering up one or two more rows of text on your web page
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but again the iphone mini totally has the space it’s it has the screen real estate of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iphone ten and ten is the phones that we all used for like those years like it it has a lot of screen
⏹️ ▶️ John and the ipad that could almost get away with a mac like you i mean with a pop over a customizable
⏹️ ▶️ John tomorrow so there’s plenty of room again i’m not saying by the fault and i’m not saying make it word six but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s not unreasonable and if they did that i feel like there would be
⏹️ ▶️ John much less put back not because people crave double height tool bars but just because people would think
⏹️ ▶️ John oh well i’m not going to use that but if i ever wanted it’s nice that it’s there and the people who do want it will love it so it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like no harm no foul to anybody else because it doesn’t introduce you know let’s say they move into the bottom like oh i like
⏹️ ▶️ John that they moved everything to the bottom and they won’t even know that there’s a customizable to where there can be two rows but the people
⏹️ ▶️ John who do know will love it so it’s it’s win win anyway call me i
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would totally use that because we you know first of all you know you have to cram in the address bar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now get down there in that area and so that would leave more room for things like a dedicated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reload button i don’t have to do the pull of refresh which doesn’t always work i’m not always at the very top of the page or you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know i could have for instance a one password button you know because now that we have a native extension support in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco safari or better attention support at least and then and you have all the you know different share extensions you could put in there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like imagine how cool it would be to be able to put any of your safari action extensions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the new weather extension things as a button in that second row of that toolbar like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have we have uses for it and as john pointed out the current design with the big floating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar is actually so tall because it’s so far off the bottom of the screen that it’s not you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t actually have enough space to put two rows there but you almost do like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that became a solid tool bar you could make it only a little bit taller and have two
⏹️ ▶️ Marco space for two rows
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe if you also count the shadow that bleeds out above the thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh definitely you include that you definitely already have a space because that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John already like obscuring the web page and making girls anyway
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s already unreadable area because you have this giant shocking it hopefully
Design feedback loop
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i remember like you know when i was seven was first in beta the first couple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of betas maybe possibly even just the first one used an incredibly thin
⏹️ ▶️ Marco variant of helvetica super thin only and it was so ridiculously
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thin that it proved to be pretty difficult to use and very early
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the beta process for iowa seven apple adjusted the font weights to be a little bit thicker system
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wide and we we are now able to look back on those very like beta
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one iowa seven screen shots and the marketing pages that were made for it and we can look back and laugh at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how ridiculous that that ultra skinny fun was i hope this version
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of safari becomes that in the future like i hope we were able to look back at this as like a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco failed experiment that’s slightly amusing in retrospect as we all use a much more useable version that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hopefully they will ship by this fall but
⏹️ ▶️ John it is kind of funny that the you know two prominent ui redesigns were both
⏹️ ▶️ John safari and both of them looked like they might be you know back paddling on the top tabs now this one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i mean it is worth considering like how did they get to this state you know typically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most apple software interface like most apple you eyes when they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco come out they tend to just be finally like this this is just what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is and it comes out and sometimes it lands like a lot of balloon but it doesn’t usually get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco revised in public like this and so first of all i’m not saying that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good i and more often and maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco public feedback should be taken into consideration more like maybe the notifications on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco please for the love of god fix
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey notification how did that possibly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not change she monterey but anyway there’s still time maybe maybe i’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get there anyway i do think it’s worth considering like is there something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up with the feedback loop inside the company like why why is this stuff able to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get out when honestly the stuff about it that’s just really bad and then also why do they seem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of blindsided when the republic says hey that’s bad like why why do they get out in the first place
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and why is it so surprising to them when we don’t like it like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you would think maybe they they would have like some kind of insight into like maybe they would show
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to some i know i know that they don’t do focus groups that often but like maybe they show to some people and say hey what do you think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this you know like how does it get out in the way it is when
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so obvious to us in the outside like certain things about it aren’t good
⏹️ ▶️ John can i think of the people who make it even if you were to show it to a folkestone or get feedback
⏹️ ▶️ John from internal employees or whatever the easy comeback for the people who are heavily in favor of the thing they designed is
⏹️ ▶️ John well we won’t really know until the public ceases so let’s just wait to hear from the public which to the credit of the safari
⏹️ ▶️ John team like they’ve tried these ui experiments you know top tabs now this and are reacting to
⏹️ ▶️ John feedback which is good and it’s what they should do but up until the point where it lands in the general public
⏹️ ▶️ John you can always say well it’s just internal apple people and we are not representative of the general public oh that’s just a
⏹️ ▶️ John focus group let’s wait until we see it or you know like you can always just say that’s all well and good but
⏹️ ▶️ John we really have to wait until the people see it to let us know and in that way you can make sure something
⏹️ ▶️ John lives to see the light of day and go out to the public if you are really vociferously
⏹️ ▶️ John for it and you have enough sway with in the organ it seems like you know the you i folks within
⏹️ ▶️ John individual products do and probably should have you know more or less final say of the
⏹️ ▶️ John ui of the thing that they are making right even if the whole rest of apple tells the safari team we don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ John the new safari you re the var team can always say well that’s great but you’re not on the var team we are and let’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John wait to see what the people say and you know all right also there has been some
⏹️ ▶️ John public opinion and they are making changes i’d say that’s pretty healthy i’m not particularly worried about
⏹️ ▶️ John like oh how did this get out because it is a beta how did this get out is in its ships final i would be much
⏹️ ▶️ John more worried about but it seems like we’re not going down that road
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and and as long as like if bad stuff comes out in beta but then they do listen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to feedback and make it better before release then then that would be fine like that’s i don’t again i don’t think that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the common case of that but that’s why you know we’re not able to point to a lot of examples of that in recent history but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that’s how they want to do things from now on that happens more and more that’s i don’t see anything wrong with that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as long as that feedback loop does function correctly once it does get up to the public opinion
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stage and people can test it and report back and say hey this you know this part of the design doesn’t work and then they actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco listen and they actually do fix it in that beta cycle rather than like five years later when they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco decide to look at it again so if that’s the way we’re going to be in for this kind of stuff sometimes that’s fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the good thing is it does seem like right now that feedback cycle
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is working and they are refining and they are seemingly going to make it something better than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what it is now before it’s release in you know two months um so i’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m encouraged one thing i’m also encouraged by is if you notice like the um
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is something i noticed this today because you so rarely see broken animations
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from apple but the animation when the keyboard slides up in iphone safari
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the floating soap bar turns into the address bar that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco above the keyboard now that’s fixed there the animation’s not right the keyboard slides
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up a little bit slower than the bar does and so as it goes up there’s a slight gap that forms
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then disappears between the top of the keyboard and the bottom of that bar and it’s something that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again like apples so so often nails animation so well i can’t think of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco last time i saw a broken animation shipping in an apple product again shipping is enclosed this is a beta
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the reason i find this encouraging is that it makes it feel more like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re busting their butts to fix this quickly like it makes it seem like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh they’re they’re on fire over there now and they are rushing and they are actually making
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big changes quickly because they know they have to that i like to see like cause that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that shows that that you know a eh they’re listening be they’re changing things and see they’re probably not done
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet and that’s that’s encouraging
⏹️ ▶️ John i think i can safely say now that it was a mistake to put this info up i’m sorry i didn’t know margaret had so much to say about
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AppleCare for cosmetic damage
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are fifty minutes in and maybe we can get through follow up item number two which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are a mess josh who as an eleven year apple retail veteran i wanted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to write with regard to what i’ll call elective applecare repair so this was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was talking last week about how i’ve i dropped my iphone many and scuffed up the outside rim of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the aluminum and it was like kind of sharp and like well it’s not really enough damage to get an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco applecare replacement so it’s just kind of frustrating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yep so josh wrote apple doesn’t provide service for what they would term cosmetic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey damage quote what this means in practice is that the genius or tech specialist at the stores looking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for an actual cracked screen or back plate or some other non functional component their visual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mechanical inspection guide which most of them know by memory for situation like this instructs them not to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey provide service of any kind in or out of warranty paid or free for a device that’s just roughed up in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey other words a customer can’t choose to invoke apple care plus at their own discretion even if they want to pay a hundred dollars
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a replacement phone this is still josh writing i assume the reason for it is a combination of apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not wanting to lose massive amounts of money on replacement phones and a concern for the environmental impact of providing replacement phones
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in wide circumstances as it turns out customers generally expect a replacement phone for nearly anything wrong so this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t unreasonable in my opinion says josh i i don’t know man
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have mixed feelings about this like thankfully i haven’t been in a position where i’ve wanted to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do this sort of thing because either my phone is freaking shattered or it’s been in good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey shape but i mean i i don’t know if it’s obviously roughed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up and damaged and if the person wants to pay the hundred bucks then why not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well i mean it does make some sense you know for the reason that that that you know they site here like it does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make some sense but it also in practice creates this really strange incentive like if i
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to if i want to replace my phone i should just drop it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and break it like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that’s kind of a straight ride screen yeah but i really
⏹️ ▶️ John like i think apple would be you know if you get a good person in retail like let’s say for example you scuffed
⏹️ ▶️ John the side of your phone in a way that now there’s a sharp metal that could cut you it’s still cosmetic like but you
⏹️ ▶️ John like perturbed the aluminum and made like a little sharp flag shit out i bet they would be flexible
⏹️ ▶️ John and say look this thing can actually hurt me now and so even though nothing is broke and broken what can you do and people have
⏹️ ▶️ John discretion to do the right thing that’s part of the service we expected an apple stores if it actually is a case
⏹️ ▶️ John like that and if it’s not and your super desperate for another phone yeah just just break the class
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah which is it’s i mean that’s terrible but and i don’t think i could make myself do it
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s terrible but like really like yeah like you shouldn’t do it you should like the only
⏹️ ▶️ John the reason i would ever do that is if i did have a phone that had like essentially a sharp piece of metal that could actually
⏹️ ▶️ John cut me and i couldn’t find any at an apple retail to be willing to do a replacement under
⏹️ ▶️ John apple care be like well because i feel like that is a non functional phone if i can’t hold it without
⏹️ ▶️ John literally cutting myself am i supposed to just get out the metal file and just start that seems excessive so
⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like maybe if i was in that situation and and somehow the apple
⏹️ ▶️ John store employees were not flexible i would just you know put a little nick in the glass and say up now it qualifies
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco still have not in front of the person you should write yeah
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i still couldn’t make myself do it honestly like it would be like
⏹️ ▶️ John to make this with this very convoluted scenario to just know the piece of metal sticking out that cuts you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well i mean maybe maybe one angle is like what if you’ve scuffed up the outside such that it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now worth substantially less on resale or trading and you have apple care and so it’s like if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i could pay a hundred bucks to get a new phone and then trade that in maybe i would make more from the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trade in then you know this one that you know gazelle or whatever just rejected because of the side
⏹️ ▶️ Marco scuffed up like it does create some weird holes like that but ultimately it’s one of those things where
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i see why they have their policy the way it is now because that would result in a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like pretty unnecessary replacements too so it’s one of those things like you got
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to think of everything apple does in these areas as how could people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really scam the crap out of this for their own benefit because apple is such a massive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco target for scammers to try to exploit and so this is one of those things were like yeah this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it makes sense that they would have some kind of reasonable limits on when they will replace
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a device for apple care even if you pay for it
⏹️ ▶️ John once again put a case on your phone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you never going case less again tell me that right now
Photo-ingest follow-up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had a bunch of follow up for importing photos onto your devices and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there were two very big themes here one of which was just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey use the lightning dusty card camera reader guys why wouldn’t you do that i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have tried this in the past or with an ipad pro that has usb c you of using a sd
⏹️ ▶️ Casey card dongle this just never worked for my brain like i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just did not enjoy the process i didn’t enjoy doing it on the eye pad despite the screen being
⏹️ ▶️ Casey phenomenal i just didn’t like it and maybe it would work for for you certainly a lot of people seem to do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it this way i didn’t like it also i wasn’t confident how it would handle raws both in terms
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of whether or not it would ingest them and in a lot of cases i wanted to eat the raw but i don’t want to leave the jpeg
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and i don’t think there’s really a mechanism for doing that on the ipad and even if there is it must
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be clunky it would be my assumption so not for me but a lot of people wrote in about it and and the lightning
⏹️ ▶️ Casey test card camera or in the case of a you know older ipad or a phone it’s like thirty bucks or something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that which is kind of a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like this is almost like a generational thing and that we’re always thinking that we were asked about our
⏹️ ▶️ John photo ingest process and all of us talked about how we get photos from our cameras to our max right but for a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ John people their phone or their ipad is the primary computing device in their life maybe they
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t even have a desktop computer or a listen right and so in that case in just means
⏹️ ▶️ John like what they’re trying to do is essentially get it into their icloud photo library it’s like well why wouldn’t you connect
⏹️ ▶️ John it to your phone it’s you know
⏹️ ▶️ John to your computer my computers at home what are you even talking about my
⏹️ ▶️ John ways with me and so i’ll just you know plug in the lightning sd card reader an import and then it goes into my
⏹️ ▶️ John icloud photo library and you know they don’t have the issues that you are just ascribing of like i
⏹️ ▶️ John want to have j player and to sort through them and so and so forth so yeah this was a very big feedback
⏹️ ▶️ John theme and i think there is definitely two classes of people one that wants to bring their
⏹️ ▶️ John photos onto their mac and one that doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there are ten kinds of people that understand binary and then the other big recommendation we got which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i do want to try but i haven’t yet is for an app called photo mechanic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i didn’t look at pricing for this i’ve no idea if it’s free or if it’s a bazillion dollars but one example of somebody
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrote in about it peter kaiser wrote it has a great previewer to look through all the images
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the sd card you’re ingesting from before you ingest them and you can discard the ones you don’t want to ingest than
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you do ingest you can rename the images on the fly based on whatever variables you want to specify you can also have them ingested
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to two different locations at once for for example peter says you know i ingest into my synology nas and to a dedicated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo drive on an external hard drive so this looks like it is up my alley
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but again i haven’t had a chance to try yet
⏹️ ▶️ John so this everyone who recommended this was like either was a professional photographer or heard about it from a
⏹️ ▶️ John professional photographer i haven’t looked deeply into it but it strikes me as a an expensive program and b
⏹️ ▶️ John a program that is probably i’m going to say that probably awful
⏹️ ▶️ John from like from the perspective of an outsider in the same way that you were to throw some random
⏹️ ▶️ John person who used the garage band if you were to throw them into to protools they’d be like what the hell is this app this app stinks
⏹️ ▶️ John right but professionals a put up with weary eyes they just become accustomed to and b have
⏹️ ▶️ John great loyalty to a weird old program that does one
⏹️ ▶️ John job really really well so it seems like there’s a lot of loyalty to this program for people who
⏹️ ▶️ John needed to do the one thing this thing does this is not a tool for you know getting your things into icloud photo library
⏹️ ▶️ John because i don’t think i mean it seems like it’s not it seems like this is like your job is photos
⏹️ ▶️ John over there and you want them on your computer and this is a swiss army knife to do that right and it’s a fast
⏹️ ▶️ John one and has a fast previewer like it’s it’s sort of you know high performance work for oriented professional
⏹️ ▶️ John photographer is probably overkill for the average person but because it was recommended so much i think it’s worth
⏹️ ▶️ John at least checking out ah maybe they have a demo or something and this will be good
⏹️ ▶️ John for your old work full case but remember you’re going to switch over to you like that photolysis you won’t need
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this any am i though anyway photo mechanic six we can follow up a hundred and forty
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollars us and then there’s a photo mechanic plus that includes things that i don’t think any of us are interested
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in but that’s two hundred and thirty dollars so a hundred and forty for what i think would be sufficient for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me chris hancock writes with regard to an apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know manufactured apple branded camera like standalone camera a chris hancock rights instead of a whole
⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera could apple make a quote made for apple photos quote certification for other cameras to plug
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into upside for them is the services revenue from driving more eye clad storage plus i’m sure they’d
⏹️ ▶️ Casey charge the camera manufacturers too i don’t see this happening but i like the principle
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it i mean it sounds like a cool like happy medium i don’t think it really solves all the problems that we were lamenting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s certainly interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John and it would solve a lot of problems in that apple would force these camera companies to have some kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of reasonable like fast apple native supporting import
⏹️ ▶️ John mechanism may be even wireless instead of the just universally terrible as as margo at apps
⏹️ ▶️ John that are made by the camera companies themselves who have no idea how to make software and they just why they don’t look
⏹️ ▶️ John at the native for any platform like it doesn’t look like a native mac program doesn’t look like a native window program it doesn’t work
⏹️ ▶️ John the u is inscrutable even like the the ui text is not localized
⏹️ ▶️ John well like just you can’t even read it and understand what they’re trying to say oh that would be a good upgrade but
⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like every camera company either is so far outside the room where they care about consumer
⏹️ ▶️ John electronics or is like a mortal enemy of apple and vice versa why would why
⏹️ ▶️ John would they even talk to each other about this because you know as as apple as first stated
⏹️ ▶️ John apple sometimes thinks of his self is being you know having one of the best cameras in the world right or being
⏹️ ▶️ John the best camera company in the world why would they help out another camera company i know they don’t it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John seem like there’s any overlap between them but it’s like apple’s just off doing its own thing and you know
⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll like they’ll support importing from you know if you plug in your sony camera
⏹️ ▶️ John to your mac and launch apple photos the apple photos program will import into it but trying
⏹️ ▶️ John to make that relationship tighter just doesn’t seem like a thing that apple or the camper companies
⏹️ ▶️ John interested in at this point
Aeron chair follow-up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had some feedback from alexander who writes the aeron chair was updated in twenty seventeen and one major
⏹️ ▶️ Casey change is that the foam bars removed from the front the dot com bubble era or era
⏹️ ▶️ Casey eon classic chair which is still sold used or even new are different from what’s currently
⏹️ ▶️ Casey manufactured and sold by herman miller is eron and one of you guys found a link that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we will put in the show notes to discuss the differences
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i had no idea when when john was was lamenting the the bar that goes across
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your leg on an arron chair and i was saying oh it doesn’t bother me at all it turns out like mine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i bought a few years ago is the new version and it doesn’t have one of those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bars anymore like it still has the rim at the very bottom where the fabric goes you know where the mesh
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fabric goes into that is the frame of the chair but apparently but the previous version
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iron had like kind of like an extra bar that went across kind of behind your knees they’re like almost right before
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edge of the chair and the new one does not have that bar so it turns out that if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you like john have had that bar digging into your legs the new ones might not do that for you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they are actually different
⏹️ ▶️ John sit sit in it to find out because that the thing that you’re describing the the old one has a pad
⏹️ ▶️ John there because they apparently discovered and knew that the stupid bar was going to dig into
⏹️ ▶️ John so they put a pad there to try to help and it didn’t help because like in the end the bar is still there
⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s the pad and is also where the mesh goes into the pad or whatever the new one the way the new one solves the
⏹️ ▶️ John problem is it doesn’t need the pad because the chair is tilted down more and the transition from the mash
⏹️ ▶️ John into the bar is smoother and so both of those things and it looks like the actual room is a little
⏹️ ▶️ John bit skinnier too so both those things combined to make the bar less prominent that said the the bar that
⏹️ ▶️ John was digging to me still exists it wasn’t it wasn’t the pad that was digging in it was the actual metal frame of the chair so
⏹️ ▶️ John always sit down and try it out but it seems like like it seems like even in the first version they recognized this design
⏹️ ▶️ John problem and tried to mitigate it with the pad and it didn’t work out in the second version they said if we just you know sort of bend
⏹️ ▶️ John the lip of the chair down more it’ll be less diggy i’ve never said more than the new ones so maybe it would solve
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe it would solve the problem completely for me but it is good that they have revised this
⏹️ ▶️ John and yet there’s a good youtube video if you want to see more
⏹️ ▶️ John you ever wanted to know about the minute differences between the old and the new chair the new one if not all pluses there are
⏹️ ▶️ John some things that might be considered a down grand but overall looks like a better design
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Casey got a family
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then i have a little bit of follow up for everyone as of some time between
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last recording i am now the member of a two person family and i have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple one or whatever it’s called so everyone leave me alone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s finally happens
⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of family sharing are you the organizer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes a family sharing i am the organizer i’ve given aaron whatever blessing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i can to make her if not the organizer then the equivalent or as close as it can be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s kind of irrelevant at the moment because it’s just too adult apple ids
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it right now i have started the ingest process into photos and it’s rate we’re going maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will be done before i die um so that’s good i have seventy three thousand
⏹️ ▶️ Casey six hundred nine photos four thousand eight hundred ninety nine videos i started this process
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yesterday maybe the day before the photos process and i have fifty four thousand three
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hundred sixty one items remaining and let me remind you i have a gigabit connection to the internet
⏹️ ▶️ John which is not using fully i’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know i don’t know for sure but actually i do know for sure no
⏹️ ▶️ John monitor look at your network i o it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t need to go to activity monitor because it’s sitting right on my menu bar it’s right there
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well takes a sect
⏹️ ▶️ John you which you can read in sixteen point tall you can read like the y access values i’m sure
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s it’s it’s literally says two point eight five m b slash as that’s what it says
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not gigabit
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no no it is not it’s it’s i don’t know man
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it’s going slow on my imac pro which i don’t love her as i put a screenshot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m not going to bother putting it in the show notes but i put a screenshot somewhere in the relay slack
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what does it read okay zero photo scanned photos will continue scan scanning your remaining two
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thousand five hundred and sixteen photos when you’re not using the app and when your mac is connected to power
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it said that on my mac pro
⏹️ ▶️ John and don’t worry about the scanning part though like you just care about the import of this part like the scanning it’s going to take you a while
⏹️ ▶️ John for it to like go through all the pictures and try to identify faces and all that other stuff but like i don’t know why honestly
⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t know why it even bothers to even try doing that before it’s actually imported all your
⏹️ ▶️ John photos but the mysteries of like apple’s import is very much like its eye cloud thing like
⏹️ ▶️ John if it does what you want then fine but if it doesn’t you have no knobs you have no dials
⏹️ ▶️ John you have no way to say could you a do it now instead of waiting until later or be
⏹️ ▶️ John do it faster someone actually asked like this question they were like oh i’m a phone i it never wants to load the pictures
⏹️ ▶️ John this is actually in the context of like using the sd card thing or whatever how do i get it to take the phones
⏹️ ▶️ John take the photos off of my phone and put them into a cloud and it does the phone does try to helpfully
⏹️ ▶️ John explain to you if you go to the photo ap and scroll to the bottom it will say i stopped uploading your pictures to
⏹️ ▶️ John icloud ah because your battery is low and i’ll resume again when you plug in and that’s that’s the answer i gave
⏹️ ▶️ John them as like if you wanted to if you want to make it start uploading now go and plug it in you can
⏹️ ▶️ John also use like tap that text that doesn’t look like a button to tell it to do it now but very often
⏹️ ▶️ John like in this case what if you wanted to tell it hey don’t analyze faces until later what if you wanted to tell it please
⏹️ ▶️ John use my gigabit connection to upload now like use all my cars do all the things like this is literally the only thing i’m
⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for it instead it’s like this blanket policy of like let’s not perturb your computer too much which is a reasonable default
⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want it to cripple your computer doing you know face analysis or whatever or saturate your network
⏹️ ▶️ John connection when you’re trying to do a podcast those are all fine to faults apple but we
⏹️ ▶️ John do it would be nice to have a way like i just think about the button and smile all the time the sink
⏹️ ▶️ John button and the mac version of messages wow whoever added that they need to like get an award
⏹️ ▶️ John like a on a wall an apple like somehow someone got a button and they would say
⏹️ ▶️ John hey i know there are messages that aren’t appear on my mac instead of me just sitting here waiting praying
⏹️ ▶️ John hoping wondering will they ever sing when is it going to happen i don’t know there’s no progress indicator i could be
⏹️ ▶️ John waiting here for hours days years maybe you could never happen to have to sign out of my club and oh i just click the sink
⏹️ ▶️ John button and then it sinks the messages right when i click the button cause that’s what i’m waiting for right now
⏹️ ▶️ John oh god apple please please add up the photos
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes so so it’s uploading excessively slowly and then on my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey macbook pro and maybe maybe this is user user error so if it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is then it’s my bed but what i did was on the imac i am going to have you know an entire
⏹️ ▶️ Casey duplicate of my photo library because i am not quite as um obsessive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as john with my backups but when it comes to photos i’m pretty close so why what’s it going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to hurt to have yet another duplicated my photo library and this time on the imac so i have it you know not optimizing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey et cetera et cetera and i want all the source files on there on the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey laptop i would prefer to not take up the entire ssd and so what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i did was i made an apfs volume i think that’s the right vernacular i’m sorry john i might have gotten that wrong
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but basically i made a thing that’s like ten gigs or something like that and i said okay photos
⏹️ ▶️ Casey make your thing there become the system photo library and go ahead and start plugging away
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was yesterday right now when i click on the library tab in or the library
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing and the sidebar and photos all i see is updating
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah i would i would say two things one ten gig may be a little bit small because the optimized
⏹️ ▶️ John storage just means it’s not going to have your originals but it’s not i don’t think it’s smart enough not to try
⏹️ ▶️ John to at least bring thumbnails for everything and ten gigs may not be enough for even all your thumbnails and i have no idea
⏹️ ▶️ John what photos will do in that case so consider a larger size and the second thing
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco i would say i go
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like fifty on that
⏹️ ▶️ John second thing i would say is what you’re doing fine don’t do that on your
⏹️ ▶️ John macbook until you’re done doing the thing on your imac because like why could
⏹️ ▶️ John confuse it right it’s to think of it a two step process step one all photos on imac step two
⏹️ ▶️ John little miniature library on the mac i don’t try to do them simultaneously there’s no there’s no advantage and as you’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John noted it’s not like it’s really going to do it simultaneously anyway it’s just going to make you wait and photos is
⏹️ ▶️ John so bad like no progress bars no nothing just a giant white window with some text that says presumably
⏹️ ▶️ John i’m doing something you haven’t really had no idea i have no way to check even activity monitor will make
⏹️ ▶️ John it look like your machine is mostly idle but it doesn’t mean i’m not doing anything as far as you know
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i hear you i agree with you i understand what you’re saying but can we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just concede or admit to each other if not everyone else that this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this kind of sucks like why are we okay with this like
⏹️ ▶️ John it for two reasons one this is not the common case people don’t come in like day zero i have seventy thousand photos
⏹️ ▶️ John like if you take if you start with an empty library and take photos like a normal person the system works way better
⏹️ ▶️ John right and second in the grand scheme of things no this isn’t great but the most important thing is does it
⏹️ ▶️ John safely contain all my photos and are they actually available everywhere and as
⏹️ ▶️ John far as we’ve all been able to deal with our own personal experiences and what we’ve heard from people despite the extremely
⏹️ ▶️ John frustrating slowness of all this it does eventually converge on correctness which is which is a big thing like
⏹️ ▶️ John you know correctness first speed second right they don’t have the speed they don’t have the features but if they have
⏹️ ▶️ John correctness that’s enough to you know to build trust and loyalty over the years that
⏹️ ▶️ John you will eventually get your photos in and they will eventually show up on your phone and you will eventually
⏹️ ▶️ John get some subset of them on your back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i got it but if i heard an android person being like well
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s working but super slowly and it’s working maybe on my other
⏹️ ▶️ Casey device and all by the way i have to return and do the exact
⏹️ ▶️ Casey same processing on all eighty thousand you know videos and photos on every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey single device which i know that used to be the case maybe that’s not the case anymore but it used to be that all the devices had to do all this turning
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and analyzing what not themselves like if i heard an android person saying this i would ask what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the hell was wrong with them and why they’re using the service like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in their defense casey andrew person would never say this because andrew people can never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get two devices to stay and sink between what would it be like their phone and windows pcs or what like what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s it going to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i think you’re being a little unfair to google sink you know prowess but i do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey take your point that it’s not exactly going to be ipads and maybe not windows machines other than like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey using google photos on the web but nevertheless i don’t i just i i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey would i was at the point that i would do this just to shut everyone i mean just to make everyone happy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i’m really not overwhelmed with this process
⏹️ ▶️ John haven’t even imparted the pictures yet you got you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John can you have a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of photos it’s a large volume just be patient let them be imported once they’re imported then you can enjoy
⏹️ ▶️ John the excitement of editing a photo and cropping and knowing you’re not destroying the original then then that’s for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that that doesn’t bother me because this will always in my brain this is always going to be a secondary
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or tertiary library
⏹️ ▶️ John will bring you around you step on is getting them into the library step two is letting you think of the library as the place where
⏹️ ▶️ John you can safely edit photos without straying your originals which
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is true look
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why a library is dumber than folder fulfil
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i am very much looking forward to when cas tries to edit his photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the mac version of photos and discovers the throw the fork away flow that it has
⏹️ ▶️ John although there’s a there’s a bug in photos for the mac it’s been
⏹️ ▶️ John more reasons to use it i think for two releases now like when you go into crop mode
⏹️ ▶️ John like it doesn’t like when you go into crop you know you can just see and your and you’re cropping
⏹️ ▶️ John all right it it like scroll it doesn’t scroll so you can see the entire
⏹️ ▶️ John picture like the scrolling offset is wrong and the
⏹️ ▶️ John only way to fix it is to go into a different mode than go back to crop mode i don’t know how long a thing’s been there but it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so reproducible it’s like does does no one in apple ever go into crop mode and realize hey i can’t see
⏹️ ▶️ John my whole picture i just you know how many years is that going to be like that it’s not a bad bug
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just like a eye glitch of like some you know offset or some animation outrun some other thing or whatever but
⏹️ ▶️ John it just boggles my mind that i can be there for so long as every time i switch from a just back to crop to fix that i think
⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s other like speaking of animation bugs in photos when you’re doing crop stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John and like actually dragging around the little crappy tool it you know re
⏹️ ▶️ John it re jiggers the view to whatever you crap you know cause you crop it real small it doesn’t want to leave it small or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John it eventually gets the right position but it does this intermediary step or i guess is really
⏹️ ▶️ John really wrong but like hundreds of pixels and then it snaps back again years it’s been there for years like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not it’s not a big deal it’s just like it’s like photos has like a personality it’s like it’s got a lot of eccentricities
⏹️ ▶️ John and quirks but it really bothers my mind that these these bugs are able to there
⏹️ ▶️ John to be there year after year and no one ever bothers trying to fix them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but case you know to answer your act your question about like why why is this thing actually good or why do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we use this or why do we tolerate this the answer is that as a li library
⏹️ ▶️ Marco management thing like as a library layer a sink platform a data store
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it works really well for most people most of the time like i have had no
⏹️ ▶️ Marco major problems with iphone with ici foto library since it was introduced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which at this point was what ten years ago i mean it’s been a while and i’ve had no major problems with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it i’ve had no sink problems i’ve had no lost or missing photos from it everything does sink
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it works well and it works in reasonable amounts of time as a system
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is very very good now the app for editing your photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the mac is really terrible that’s it i’m just being honest it’s terrible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know see see also throw the fork away like it is just a terrible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco flow and it it delays you and again it’s like the the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco epitome of tons of different unnecessary modes and transitions and things moving around animating
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like tons of that but i hardly ever edit my photos and if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i do it often happens on the phone anyway like right after i take them and so i rarely edit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos in nontrivial ways on the mac what i do is shoot a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos and videos and want them to sink everywhere and want that to be easy and automatic and not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is to deal with imports and raw and stuff like that and that’s a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco common set of priorities and so if that fits your common set of priorities then it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great platform and the reality is for most people that’s what they really need
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and yet i do wish the mac app was a better photo editor for when i do want to do non travelers
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not very good but the rest of it the most important parts of it to me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are that data store and sink layer and and just having it be automatic and everything appears everywhere
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i don’t have to think about it or do anything or import anything ever and it’s great at that so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s why we tolerate the crappy mac ap and i think you will find a lot of value in that
⏹️ ▶️ John like yeah the u i a photos the app is bad and the editor you eye is bad but the actual editing
⏹️ ▶️ John features they’re not it’s not lightroom like don’t expect miracles but the individual features that do exist
⏹️ ▶️ John work pretty well like it’s this is the sort of it will hold your hand
⏹️ ▶️ John right it’s it knows that you probably don’t have the knowledge or skills to do use a fancy
⏹️ ▶️ John app like lightroom i certainly don’t write so they don’t give you controls that are that complicated yes the
⏹️ ▶️ John u i is bad but the individual controls for adjusting levels curves
⏹️ ▶️ John you know the exposure their little magic do what i mean their retouching tool
⏹️ ▶️ John all those things are like the actual modifications that makes your image
⏹️ ▶️ John are well tuned to people who might want to make edits but don’t want to be like a photo editing
⏹️ ▶️ John expert i only ever use photos to added my photos i hate the you are but i like
⏹️ ▶️ John the results that i get because the edits i’m making are fairly simple i’m rotating i’m
⏹️ ▶️ John cropping i’m adjusting levels and exposure and you know maybe one or two other
⏹️ ▶️ John little tweaks there and that will take you so far you know like obviously again if you
⏹️ ▶️ John want to edit as you want to do light room with way more sophisticated changes you want to apply the same adjustments to fifteen things
⏹️ ▶️ John you want to do custom barrel distortion like yet there’s reason those other programs exist and you can you know go edit
⏹️ ▶️ John your photo in them and bring back your edit and do all that stuff if you want but the actual like for someone
⏹️ ▶️ John like you who doesn’t seem like they don’t edit their photos that much now try try the
⏹️ ▶️ John the horrendously implemented in you eye tools because the results they give you on your photo though
⏹️ ▶️ John and the good thing is if you don’t like them you can always hit the little button that says reset to original and it’s always there and
⏹️ ▶️ John that gives you the freedom to screw with them and not feel like i don’t like the set of what have i done oh no i did a bad crop
⏹️ ▶️ John the original is always there it’s it’s freeing it’s liberating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s all well and good but well first of all i don’t ever really edit my photos to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be completely honest with you the most i’ll ever do is white balance i if i take stuff inside and generally if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m taking photos inside i’m not using my big camera anyway i’m using my iphone because it’s usually going to come
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t typically white balance anymore at all but when i was doing editing i don’t have the technical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey chops to do it to be honest with you like i wish i understood in the same way that either of you guys do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a how to how to pull colors in and out and contrast up and down so on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you don’t need
⏹️ ▶️ John to know that for photos that’s what i’m saying like for white bounce is like a single button that says please fix the white bounce for
⏹️ ▶️ John me there are more state controls even in photos but if you just click the auto white bounce button
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right but okay so now that i’ve done that now i need to take that jpeg
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and pull it back out of photos actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in the one true
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John data or which is a solo you you really don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i i can’t i cannot i cannot trust anyone with these files
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i just can’t do it i can’t bring myself to do
⏹️ ▶️ John it i mean i mean i understand the lack of trust right but like what market was getting at is that like no system is perfect
⏹️ ▶️ John eventually one of us is going to be screwed by apple photos right but a decade’s a pretty good run in the grand
⏹️ ▶️ John scheme of things like think of all the other photo services that have come and gone that we haven’t been able to trust in this apple
⏹️ ▶️ John one as if you know we’re all so heavily in the apple eagle system it’s well integrated everywhere
⏹️ ▶️ John and has been reliable for us now not for everybody it’s not perfect and like i said
⏹️ ▶️ John if we just keep going long enough eventually one of us is going to get screwed in some way that’s why we have a lot of backups but
⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t think you can argue with like i think the reputation of apple photos in terms of reliability is pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John good there will always be people with horror stories about how it corrupted the whole library and destroyed everything but
⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not baying this thing like a hundred and forty thousand photos in the thing it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John if it destroys all my photo library after the time i’ve used it now i’d be like fair enough
⏹️ ▶️ John program have been able to use for that many years with no data loss treating at this cross photo
⏹️ ▶️ John and photos and all this like like it’s like like marco said the apps come and go like i photo
⏹️ ▶️ John changed a lot when it was i a photo and the photos came and it’s worse
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s like it’s you know it’s like the program it’s not like oh i don’t like the program therefore i don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ John that like it’s a platform and there are programs on top of one of the programs on top of it is the iphone versio which is getting better
⏹️ ▶️ John this year right and fifteen actually showing you the metadata i don’t have to use the party programs to get that info
⏹️ ▶️ John and on the ipad right it’s the platform and the apps built on top of it aren’t that great
⏹️ ▶️ John but like the fact that the platform has been solid for us like that is that is the big selling point
⏹️ ▶️ John that is integrated everywhere
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in case he also like at the end of the day like if you have the photo zap on a mac
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it with it downloading your entire library on that mac these are all just files in the file
⏹️ ▶️ Marco system like you can they will be part of your time machine backup they will be part of any other disk backups that you have that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen to include the big like you know photo library package because the package is just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a folder really you know it’s it’s a mac package format so you can just dive in there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can find all those files now the the directory paths and file names will be garbage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the files are all there and so if you want to you can act actually automate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that process you can make a shell script or you can make a hazel thing or whatever you want to do you can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can use use the new shortcut feature you can you can automate having something go in there and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pull out everything you’ve added to it and automatically give you know give them the right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco names and paths and put them in your synology like that that can actually be totally compatible with this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new system because at the end of the day these are just files in a weird place on your hard drive
⏹️ ▶️ John for the masters yes benar is at it that’s what he’s interested in um like that if he does make an edit he
⏹️ ▶️ John wants that to be baked into his canonical shoebox because he’s
⏹️ ▶️ John it has very bad ideas about how to archive data but yeah like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well the edits are there too oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey slow down slow down okay if you’re going to be a jerk about it let’s pull on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that so i think i never you should never
⏹️ ▶️ John save the edits is what i’m saying you should never save the edits like or rather you should if you save the edits you have to save the
⏹️ ▶️ John original to it boggles my mind that you crop a photo and then have the cropped version replaced the original
⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s not good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i can make a strong argument either way but i hear what you’re saying
⏹️ ▶️ John like you should keep both is what i’m saying like you do want the crop because that was work that you put into it but also
⏹️ ▶️ John you want the original in case you flubbed the crop
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i guess but i i’d like to think i’d be pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure that that is the crop i want before i deleted the
⏹️ ▶️ John original never i go back and re edit photos from like two thousand and five frequently
⏹️ ▶️ John cause i look at them i’m a better photo editor not that i’m a good photo eater but i’m better at using the the
⏹️ ▶️ John stupid photo zap and i will go back and look at them like there was years when i wasn’t even white balancing
⏹️ ▶️ John anything i have like you know i have cannon five d pictures from like the five d that was like
⏹️ ▶️ John quote borrowed from m i t for a short period of time and they’re all super yellow cause they were taken indoors
⏹️ ▶️ John and he’d never white balance then and like oh i can just go and fix that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s all my pictures for like a five year span they’re all yellow
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t i like as much as i’m you know i apologize i really don’t like to be the complainer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that’s what i’ve been doing today the role of complainer will be played by kc list
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and i’m not actually really trying to complain like most of this is tongue in cheek
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i just want to point out that this onboarding experience has not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been delightful and
⏹️ ▶️ John what is your punishment for onboarding after you have seventy thousand for
⏹️ ▶️ John mean it is bad this is a bad experience but if you were to bring this to apple they would say okay
⏹️ ▶️ John well do you know how many people are in this position like very few um and so i would imagine they are not going to optimize
⏹️ ▶️ John word that said they should totally have a mode that says you know a button that says please do the thing now because that’s literally all i’m
⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for it i know you’re trying to be nice to my computer but don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well that’s the thing is it depends what you mean by do the thing like if if there was a way for me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to tell photos slurp up all available bandwidth just go frickin nuts then
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i would absolutely hit that button similarly like overnight i would hit the okay now that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things are uploaded please churn and destroy my poor site figuring out for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first of fifteen times who’s where and what’s what and so on and so forth like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i am kind of dreading my devices doing that scanning because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey again i feel like maybe they said something about this being passed around services so maybe this this
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah i think that it is like a last in person that you already see there was something about a sharing face
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey okay yeah yeah
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but maybe not all classification shared around whatever the case may be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s right yeah i i believe where where we left off was that anything that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you manually classified and entered was since but anything that is automatically detected
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the algorithms is not since
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think that’s right now that you say that
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah although although i would say that the face recognition thing it’s not i mean you’re going to say that it’s going
⏹️ ▶️ John to look like it’s going to take a long time for your seventy thousand photos but what it does is it uses your manual selections
⏹️ ▶️ John to find similar right and i do this frequently of like oh i load new pictures and i’m going to manually
⏹️ ▶️ John select the bunch and then what you’ll see it do is say okay based on what you selected i found
⏹️ ▶️ John five thousand additional photos i mean you’re going to see numbers like that because that’s how many you have on
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey category right
⏹️ ▶️ John but it says that like not like after ten minutes it’s like after you’re done confirming
⏹️ ▶️ John it says one two three up fifty more photos found right like it’s pretty fast at
⏹️ ▶️ John taking what you know it the thing what i’m saying is singing in the manual stuff sounds like that’s nothing cause i manually
⏹️ ▶️ John confirm ten photos that ten photos will quickly multiply into many many were actually pretty fast at finding
⏹️ ▶️ John the faces and the the hard part and the work is actually the manual part the automated part it’s fast
⏹️ ▶️ John now the part i don’t know about is the part that knows this is a chair this is a dog you know the classification i
⏹️ ▶️ John think that might be super slow but honestly that i use that feature all
⏹️ ▶️ John the time hopefully and it’s just like when you’ll see when you use it in the stupid photos you like there’s an auto
⏹️ ▶️ John complete and if you don’t see your thing auto completed don’t bother cause if you’re you’re trying
⏹️ ▶️ John to look for like b and it doesn’t auto complete to be like a bumble bee or whatever don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John like you might as well just try insect because you have to pick from one the article places it only knows about a finite number of things
⏹️ ▶️ John right google is you know google search obviously you can type any nonsense in there and do image search and it will do
⏹️ ▶️ John its best apple photos is not like that so that may take a while but like
⏹️ ▶️ John when that’s going because it runs in the background or whatever like
⏹️ ▶️ John if you ever want to search your photos like that you probably need a different tool that’s it i haven’t seen the iowa
⏹️ ▶️ John fifteen thing with the text thing that might actually help a lot so we’ll say
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no a couple of other quick notes first of all some very belated follow up from a few weeks ago
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you and i or maybe it was all three of us were discussing why bother geotagging photos and i meant
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to bring this up during the show and i either didn’t get a word in edgewise or knowing me probably forgot but one of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasons i loved attacking my photos and i am not starting this is i’m really being serious one of the reasons i love you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey attacking my photos is because if you think about my preposterous or not but whatever it is it’s mine
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know there are many like it this one is mine my photo management set up is that if i know when a picture
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was taken it takes me exceedingly little time to find the actual source
⏹️ ▶️ Casey file on the enology now maybe that’s not something that you john you marco or you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey listen or care about but it’s something that happens to me relatively often however if i wanted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if i know oh yeah there was that one time we took that picture at cape charles
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i don’t know what year it was but i remember being really really pretty if i geotag my photos
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if i have something like google photos or soon apple photos i can drill into cape
⏹️ ▶️ Casey charles and find that picture similarly like for you john oh i remember there was that picture
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i took of the kids on long island but i don’t know if that was last year the year before
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the year before that like that is the moment at which geotagging photos becomes extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey useful like leaving aside the fact that i just kind of like having that meditator there anyway
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being able to just say oh where was that it was long island but what year was that then you can go
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dig deep into exactly where that was taken and find this photo
⏹️ ▶️ Casey extremely quickly now the problem with this is that it requires like google photos or an apple photos or what have you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because this is not something that i know of that you can do on the file system particularly easily but if you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have something like apple or google what have you then it is a really convenient way to find photos and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have had this happen many many many many times maybe that’s because i’ve a crummy memory which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i absolutely do maybe you’re better at knowing exactly what year or whatever photo was taken but i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey am not and that that is part of the reason why i go absolutely bananas in trying to make sure
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that every photograph that’s ingested into whatever system has been geotech
⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not against you ten i would love it it’s just that i have my limits dealing with this crappy software like
⏹️ ▶️ John the camera makers right and so i just deal with it but you know for your specific example it will not shock you to
⏹️ ▶️ John know that all my long island pictures are labeled with the long island label which is the thing that keyword
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that’s a fair point that
⏹️ ▶️ John in photos and i also have smart folders in a sidebar i have a long island folder and under that i have smart folders
⏹️ ▶️ John for long island year and long island year favourites and there both smart folders they say keyword
⏹️ ▶️ John is long island the years two thousand four keywords long island years two thousand four and his favorite yeah that’s that’s totally
⏹️ ▶️ John fair so i can just turn down those folders and click on them and slice them and yet like and not all of
⏹️ ▶️ John them are geotag some of them are some of the iphone ones and again i think geotag is working
⏹️ ▶️ John with this byzantine bluetooth pared flow with my new thing but i’ll see if they’re not like
⏹️ ▶️ John i am pretty good about tag stuff like that’s the thing about photos you know back in the day when they had star ratings
⏹️ ▶️ John i had everything star rated now they just have faves but i was able to import all my star ratings as keywords and now things that were
⏹️ ▶️ John previously two stars have two stars keyword on them arbitrary you know attaching arbitrary tags on
⏹️ ▶️ John things is surprisingly flexible and yet it does support the geo tagging and all the other you
⏹️ ▶️ John know me i if metadata about the lens and the camera i used the camera search all the time to you know
⏹️ ▶️ John to say i don’t remember where i took this but i think it was with this camera i could just show me all the cannon five
⏹️ ▶️ John d pictures right then narrow that down by year it’s nice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh one thing i’ve noticed by the way about geotag before i move on from that is um so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’ve been occasionally viewing those like memories videos that the photos app algorithmically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes for you which by the way are pretty good i was surprised i don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if this is a fifteen beta thing or what but it’s pretty good i was very impressed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but one thing i noticed in one of them was that was it was about a like a location based trip that i
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had taken a few years back and it included in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco footage used for that trip video that i shot on the drone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the drone is not geotagging as far as i know no
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco is now it is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay because i was thinking like was it smart enough to just infer the location because i imported
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it like on the same day as all these other pictures but no i guess if i actually see attacking which i suppose
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can because it has g p s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so i’m ninety eight percent sure that it is i’m almost certain that my mini
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two does indeed put you cause you can put that metadata in an empty four as well
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so i’m almost certain that my drone does and i have i have the cheapest drone that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that t j i makes well cheapest of the new drones at ji makes and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so i’m pretty sure that yours which was not the cheapest that they make should geotagged
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as well um so yeah that that that’s just an aside a bit bit of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow up that i meant to bring up and then finally one other thing that i think is quite hilarious
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re right they do at it it i pulled up some drones it why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the hell i was at anyway sorry
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey in any case
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one thing that i do find quite hilarious and very frustrating but this is kind of sort of my fault
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i’m looking at on my eye phone i’m looking at the library tab and photos and i’m on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all photos and so i’m scrolled all the way to the bottom which is presumably the latest most recent
⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo right and at the top on the photos app in an ios it shows the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey date and the date i see and this is not a joke is december
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nineteenth the year five eight two eight nine six three because i guess
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what had happened was i’m looking at these last what nine ten photo videos actually and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were casing on cars videos of the alfaro the quadrifoglio or the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey julia quadrupole and i guess like something got hosed up with the act of data of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the years five eight two eight nine six three but these are like the most recent ten pictures on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my phone because it’s doing date descending or whatever and so this is the bottom of my photo
⏹️ ▶️ Casey library i’m going to have to go in and change the meditate on these bad boys so it is not from the year five eight to eight
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nine six three but i almost wonder if apple should maybe filter out anything that’s that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey far in the future but then again if that’s what’s the date in the photo what are they really supposed to do
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why i am speaking of dates like that well first photo actually does have a fairly good date adjustment thing although i kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of wish one feature apple canada shouldn’t even tell them because they should just do family
⏹️ ▶️ John i would love it if their adjusted feature had a thing where you could sort of blank
⏹️ ▶️ John out fields right cause i’ve been my relatives are scanning like old black and white photos of
⏹️ ▶️ John like my grandparents and great grandparents and stuff right and usually you only know the year and
⏹️ ▶️ John but you have to put in everything in the date field right so i have to come up with this convention of like if i only know
⏹️ ▶️ John the year it’s january first at zero zero zero zero zero but that’s a valid date and it’s not i wish
⏹️ ▶️ John i could say look for this camera you know the for this photo i know the year in the month this one in the year to sort of
⏹️ ▶️ John say the other ones who don’t care or i don’t know yet or whatever but yet the adjusted future is handy
⏹️ ▶️ John and i was just looking through my photos when you were saying that i have a cool picture of a mate competition i don’t even
⏹️ ▶️ John know if that’s a thing but that’s what the badge says on the back of this thing opposed another channel later
⏹️ ▶️ Casey please do ah goodness so yeah all in all i am excited about apple one i’m excited to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the two terabytes although i’m hypothetically going to be using a little over one terabyte for photos alone very very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey soon i’m excited about the terabytes i’m excited well i feel like i’m excited to have apple music
⏹️ ▶️ Casey even though i don’t know why because i do love spotify so much the right the right answer is probably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to just divorce myself from spotify but gosh i love those discover
⏹️ ▶️ John now if you think the photo app is bad try using the music app
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it just it pains me deeply to be doubled
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the music app spotify really sucks on the mac though i haven’t used their terrible
⏹️ ▶️ John sure casey is used to it and has the dates he wants and i’m assuming it has to be less buggy than music the on the back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco less buggy maybe but just clunkier and crappie like it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey clunky and crappy it is not buggy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and yeah granted like you know the music app on mac is not great for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for lots of reasons but it is at the end of the day it’s still like you know good old reliable itunes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mostly under there and it mostly works now that being said the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like apple music as a service parts of it are pretty rough
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but if you’re mostly using it to play your existing library as i am it’s it’s great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and spotify is fairly clunky at that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i would agree with that it is pretty clunky at the library that you brought to spotify it’s pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Casey great with everything else but for a library that you brought to spotify it’s not great and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m excited for you know for for apple music you know to try it out and see what i think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m excited that i don’t have to worry about paying for apple net will not worry about it but like if i see
⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that’s paywall on apple news plus hypothetical shouldn’t pay walt anymore which is great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that that’s like like the best thing about this is that you no longer have to have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to like decide piecemeal which apple services you want to pay for or not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pay for you kind of get everything and that’s it you can then you can try everything and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see like what you actually like
⏹️ ▶️ John you can finally play sinar wild hearts without worrying about whether you want a paper it or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not i bought that for the switch like a month or two ago and it is i didn’t finish it cause i only had a few minutes to play but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is very very good
⏹️ ▶️ John it does take a long thin it’s like forty five minutes or so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i now i just haven’t had the chance and then there was something else i wanted to say but regardless
⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m ex oh fitness plus that’s what it was i have actually really been liking fitness plus a lot i’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been using it quite regularly it’s not the only exercise i do but it’s the majority of the exercise i
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do and i have been really really enjoying it it’s got its own problems for sure but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the whole especially for something that’s really pretty much brand new i have been extremely impressed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with fitness plus and have really really been liking it and now like it’s not a big deal but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now because we’re on a family and and because aaron gets all these things too if we do workouts
⏹️ ▶️ Casey together which we aren’t doing these last couple of weeks but we were doing for like a month or two straight we were doing a lot of fitness
⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus stuff together and we kind of ebb and flow in and out of you know working out together working out separately
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but now we can show her watch on the screen because it used to be the king every time because i was the only one paying for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fitness plan so it’ll be nice to show her watch on the screen i mean i would love for apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to consider that maybe you would want two at once which would be amazing so see also apple people
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have families and we would love to share our photos with our families but anyway i am i am excited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about having all these things i am honestly as much as i start i am excited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about having photos and assuming i can get it all squared away and it all ingests
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and scans and does all that gobbledygook i am looking forward to having it i am looking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey forward to making it easier to access my photos from you know fifteen years ago et cetera et cetera
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i am i am i’m glad i’m doing this even though the onboarding experience is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rougher than i would like it to be
⏹️ ▶️ John you should try some some smart folders it’s probably like the first thing you should do like cause you don’t have to do anything for
⏹️ ▶️ John them like you can rely on the media like one example of a smart folder speaking of your wacky dates is i have
⏹️ ▶️ John smart folders that are like that say that these are not the children that they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John supposed to be so basically says if person identified is my daughter but
⏹️ ▶️ John the date is before my daughter was born put that into a smart folder and then i can go in there and
⏹️ ▶️ John essentially select all and say no that’s not her she wasn’t born yet or see if the dates
⏹️ ▶️ John are wrong if it is her right those sort of like you know you’re letting the automated system do its best to guess
⏹️ ▶️ John but when it gets it wrong there’s certain certain things you can do to sort of rule them out right um
⏹️ ▶️ John and yeah that’s partially what like you know my library is filled with so much medicine i have tags for all my kids right
⏹️ ▶️ John because they didn’t have face recognition for most of my life of using this app but when they added face recognition
⏹️ ▶️ John i didn’t ditch the tags i just use apple space recognition to make it easier for me to apply the tags
⏹️ ▶️ John right so like even if i lose all my face data all i’m viewing it is like as a bootstrap mechanism so i
⏹️ ▶️ John can properly tag everything and so i have all sorts of things that say the person identified was your daughter but it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John tagged as your daughter or it’s tagged you know and then i can just sort of reconcile those and those smart folders is just every once
⏹️ ▶️ John in a while i go into them is like a screen or two full of things and i you know correct the things or whatever and what i’m
⏹️ ▶️ John left with is essentially hand rolled meditated that identifies my children meanwhile
⏹️ ▶️ John it continues mightily in the background to try to identify my kids and it does a pretty good job but i’m still glad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks to our sponsors this week square space mac weld in and made in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and thanks to our members to support us directly you can join at eighty p that and slash join
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks everybody we will talk to you next week
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ John now the show is over they didn’t even mean to begin
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it was accidental it was
⏹️ ▶️ John john didn’t do any research marco and casey wouldn’t let him because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental but you can find
⏹️ ▶️ John the show notes at at p dot fm and if you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them c a s e y l
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i assess that’s k c s m a r c a r m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ant marco men s i r a c
⏹️ ▶️ John syracuse is accidental
#askaftershow: Kid Watch status
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so let’s do i really wanted to hear your answer to one of the s t ps that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had for this week and so we’re going to do that is kind of like a bonus after i don’t know as a special special
⏹️ ▶️ Casey treat after show andrew blomquist writes does adam still wear his apple watch about a year in i’m considering
⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting one for my kid but i’m concerned about what happens after the novelty wears off insert syracuse disclaimer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about not all kids being the same here my mileage may vary etcetera etcetera on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i absolutely love standard
⏹️ ▶️ Marco dimension that’s very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey true so what is i don’t know why i’m so interested in this but i really am so what is adam’s story
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with his apple watch is he still wearing it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so listeners might recall that last fall when apple released the apple watch as he and more importantly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple watch family set up which allows somebody without their own like a kid or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe elderly relative without their own iphone to have an apple watch that is paired to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your phone and then you get to have certain control over it and everything um when that all happened
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we got one for our son he is at the time eight and now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco nine and the context in which we were getting it was you know he has a certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco degree of freedom around our little neighborhood here and so we wanted to be wanted him to be able
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have some kind of cellular device so that he could both contact us if he needed to contact him if we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needed to and we could see where he was and for an eight year old
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash nine year old a phone is a bit of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a clunky choice for multiple reasons um you know we didn’t want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco him to have to have a phone if he didn’t need one for just size and complexity reasons
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ate felt a little bit young to have his own phone i know everyone stands on that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are different so i’m not going to judge that now but it just for us that felt a little bit young but the apple watch seemed like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a reasonable choice because it is inherently limited in what it can do so it couldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be that much of a distraction for him when doing other things it couldn’t provide much like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anti social risk the way phones can it couldn’t be much of a problem at school in case
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he wore to school which was helped also by by their their school
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time future and so it ended up being pretty good um
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he does still wear it it still works great the novelty has mostly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worn off but in a way that’s a good thing because the novelty in the first few
⏹️ ▶️ Marco weeks of using it was mostly like it was a way he could play some really simple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco crappy games because there are games for the apple watch they are not good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re they’re actually like almost comically bad but they do exist there are a couple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are you know reasonably impressive in certain things that they do but for the most part is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a compelling thing to do so the novelty wore off fairly quickly in a few weeks maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then it just became utility for us he has cellular on it and it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like ten or fifteen bucks a month on our plans so it’s it’s not much extra cost not like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a phone would be and we’re able to text him and he can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he texts back from his watch like from the playground if if we need to tell him like hey you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco come home for dinner or whatever like you know we can do that and he’s able to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be communicated with or communicate you know taking the initiative to us we can do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco audio facetime calls to it just fine the you know fine my with you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco our fine family location sharing thing works just fine there are a couple of exceptions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but for the most part it has worked great and we’re actually very happy we did
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it you know he’s he’s able to have like a regular
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kid lifestyle and we don’t have to worry too much about like what if he gets it wet
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if he drops it what if he you know leaves it somewhere like all those worries
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you’d have with a phone that you don’t have to have with the watch or at least that are greatly reduced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the watch like yet it is possible to break an apple watch but it’s a lot harder
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than it is to break a phone you don’t have to worry about again like water in it like now it’s the summer time sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he goes swimming with his with his day camp that he’s in and it’s fine he we don’t have to tell him like dont
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t bring your phone like don’t leave your phone in your pocket when you go in the water no it’s a watch just walk in the water it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter what you just leave it on please otherwise like that’s fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so that all is great now because the novelty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has mostly worn off and it is more utilitarian now we do have to often
⏹️ ▶️ Marco remind him or ask him to wear it and he doesn’t often think about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco putting up cause you know it’s still an apple watch he still has to take it off and charge it every day and sometimes he’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco take it off like before you know getting into the shower or something and so it’ll be left somewhere
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if i don’t go around and try to find it at night and put it on the charger then the next morning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not charged so there is that little annoyance that just you know the reality of kids you know they’re not going to be as attentive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this kind of stuff as as we are and and so you know there is that minor annoyance of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the daily charging is sometimes missed by it being left somewhere in the house after it was taken
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off in the evening but for the most part it’s been good now there have been a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of instances of unreliability in the i don’t know if it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the software or the cellular or both i think it actually actually has been one of both um
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple watches with cellular are not they don’t have as good of antennas as the phones do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so sometimes we just won’t be able to reach him and and the watch will just like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not report his location and it just basically won’t have the connectivity that we really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want this is not common but it does happen every so often and it is kind of annoying like well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have this thing just in case we need it and sometimes it doesn’t work but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know sometimes phones don’t work either i mean it’s less often and sometimes the kids are are faking it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and blessing you when they say their phone didn’t work but you know the reality is this happens on the watch sometimes it does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem like it’s not as reliable as the phone and there was even a case a few weeks ago where you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know we were messaging and planning hey come home for dinner whatever and he wasn’t responding he wasn’t responding we eventually had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to go look for him and you know we found him we picked him up brought it home and i and i was like let me see your watch like cause
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was insisting he wasn’t here the message and you know again like you put it through you know the kid b s filter
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit like okay really was he really not getting the messages but i looked and certainly like sure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough not only were the no notifications on his watch but i opened up the messages app on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch and they weren’t even getting in there like the my messages were just not there i rebooted
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch and they all appeared so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is definitely like some unreliability that is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really unfortunate obviously this would be a lot better if it was as reliable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the phone in those ways and it’s very clearly not but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all the advantages it has over the phone for this context for like you know i
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was going to say a middle aged kid if that makes sense he’s not super young he’s not a teenager so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know for like a middle middle aged kid i think it’s a really good solution
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you know he’s not old enough to to reasonably want or need or have a phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would provide these other you know this at the same value in other ways but he’s old enough that he
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can have independence out in you know in this part of the world that we this crazy part the world
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we live in so he can be out there on his own and we can have the need to reach him or locate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco him or he can want to reach us and he can have a way to do that without having a phone and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so in that way it’s worked out great and we’re very happy with it and we’re going to we’re going to
⏹️ ▶️ John the goodness is when he gets a phone you won’t have to remind him and take that with him every day
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yes he’ll be hopelessly addicted to social crap like we are
⏹️ ▶️ John the charging unfortunately may still be an issue depending on your kid