Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

439: Eventually Converge on Correctness

Spaces, Safari beta UI tweaks, the design feedback loop, photo-ingest updates, and shocking news from Casey.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Flashlight (transcription + alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Casey Spaces out
  2. Mac Safari UI tweak 🖼️
  3. Sponsor: Mack Weldon (code atppodcast)
  4. iPhone Safari UI proposal 🖼️
  5. John’s Safari UI proposal 🖼️
  6. Design feedback loop
  7. Sponsor: Made In (code ATP)
  8. AppleCare for cosmetic damage
  9. Photo-ingest follow-up
  10. Aeron chair follow-up
  11. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  12. Casey got a family
  13. Ending theme
  14. #askaftershow: Kid Watch status

Casey Spaces out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s w w d c season kind of and since w w d

⏹️ ▶️ Casey c is coming up what soonish right i would like to file i would like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to file a request slash bug report i was trying to get my windows organized and i and we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talked about this in the past i am a devout spaces person and last i recall talking about it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um i think neither of you enjoy spaces this is the like virtual desktop thing but i really like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it it helps me stay organized it works for me and what was happening was i had opened several

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apps and they were strewn across like three or four different spaces instead of doing my beloved tiling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey setup that i that i do every every week when we record the show so i like to have skype

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or now zoom in the upper left i like to have chrome in the uper right i like to have textual friese in the lower left and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a visual studio code for note taking as in the show notes on the bottom right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i was getting just as everywhere and that is the one time that spaces really gets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my nerves is one i just wanted everything to open in one shot in one place and that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was trend everywhere and it’s very frustrating and i know that there are ways like i think was it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a keyboard my stroke and automate some of this if i really wanted to i probably could write applescript to do it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i haven’t gotten to the point of doing that yet or maybe shortcuts soon but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is the moment that i hate spaces now my bug report however is only tangentially related and i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think i’ve complained about this before but i would like to complain about it again because this is this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is all we do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here yes exactly when it’s every once in a while and it’s been on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last like six releases of os ten i will click on the dock to go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to an ap app that is in a different space so for example i have my quartet of windows here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the windows of casey county you could say and uh and i click on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the messages app icon in the dock which slides me one screen to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the right which is where messages is well then i click back on let’s say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t know textual and sometimes what will happen is the animation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will happen and i will slide back to the left which is where that screen is in relation to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one that has messages and then with no intervention on my part it will ship me back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the right and take me back to messages okay let me try that again i do this every time happen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for years i do it everytime alright et me try one more time surely that was the fluke just that one time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey surely and i’ll click on the textual icon one more time whatever i said a second ago

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’ll click the same icon one more time this has been going on for years i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have no reasonable way of recreating it but the next time it happens i’m going to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to start a cross country trip to drop my eye mac off with a very large battery pack apparently drop my imac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off at at at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John craigslist so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah at craigslist so i most said and i was like no that’s not going to help me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all if he was the one drop doing the dropping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey off

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s exactly right so i’ll have to drop my computer off at craig’s house and get him to fix this because it is driving me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bananas so since w w d c is right around the corner right right now it’s the time to ask so here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s what i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John should

⏹️ ▶️ John make a screen recording with your phone don’t try to use the screen recording feature cause that could perturb whatever was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco making it

⏹️ ▶️ John happen the second time but it seems like if it happens the second time pretty reliably the first time it happens take off that

⏹️ ▶️ John phone dear little handheld video and say what the heck is this and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey problem i agree i agree with you full stop the problem though is that usually i have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sensitive enough things on my screen that i don’t really want to broadcast it publicly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we all know radars a waste of time so i don’t want to and i would put in radar but nobody ever looks at radar so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why bother so i i don’t really know the right answer i think though i just need to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either like go and final cut pro and like you’ll put black or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John you can to redact it or whatever but just having it for your records so you know

⏹️ ▶️ John make make a recording and then then you can see if he’s nothing on screen you care about and if there is then you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey can

⏹️ ▶️ John you know ask when how to redact things in video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey indeed but that would make me use a final cupro again and apparently we all hate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey final cupro now because they changed a blade to scissors it

⏹️ ▶️ John changed back and rise at a big a big deal oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can you i didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John realize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John i thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you were seeing you said with such authority i thought you were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John serious

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what that’s what i said replied to great when he complained about it but like they used to do that all the time when i was a kid

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you didn’t like some ui element in an ap all those things were just resources you know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco resource working elastic

⏹️ ▶️ John maces and reset it had a bitmap editor built into resets wire it

⏹️ ▶️ John up pop in there and you know just change change the cursor to be what you want to be of course

⏹️ ▶️ John these days i mean obviously we don’t use resource forks and we don’t use resources and some people would say oh it’s even

⏹️ ▶️ John easier in the next world all those things are probably just like tiff files or pdf files that are inside the app

⏹️ ▶️ John bundle right and so it’s it’s easier than rested its files and directories code signing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s where they got a good point good point i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco don’t think about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are all the resources code signed or just the binary

⏹️ ▶️ John there is a way to exclude things from code signing and not everything is included in code signing but my baseline assumption

⏹️ ▶️ John is that anything i want to change in an ap i just assume it’s part of the signature

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so i

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John even bother trying but hey if someone wants to dive into final cut and of course the other thing is you know these days the

⏹️ ▶️ John the prevalence of sort of network based updates ah you’re just going to be chasing your tail forever

⏹️ ▶️ John like back in the old days you’d get a floppy from your mac user group and like you’d get the app and you reset it and

⏹️ ▶️ John it would stay that way essentially forever because how else would the ap change all right unless you got a

⏹️ ▶️ John new version of it or something but these days every ap sort of updates itself or gets updated by the mac

⏹️ ▶️ John app store or whatever and all of you are even if you’re able to get past the the code

⏹️ ▶️ John a signature because it doesn’t apply to the thing you want to change your change is just going to get overwritten

⏹️ ▶️ John by the next update so it’s kind of frustrating but yeah in some ways it is better and simpler now with

⏹️ ▶️ John just files and directories but in other ways the ah the mac and resource forks

⏹️ ▶️ John of the past with no permissions on anything in a single user system really did let you change whatever the value

⏹️ ▶️ John on it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know there’s a part of me that regrets it may be a little strong but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but kind of wishes that i had spent more time on classic mac os cause i did a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey little bit in computer labs here and there growing up but i barely touched a mac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey until what was it two thousand eight the marconi were arguing about it on tumbler i’d use

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them from time to time but very rarely that actually in college there was a a big

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like walmart sized like warehouse sized room i’m sure i brought this up several

⏹️ ▶️ Casey times on the show called the math emporium where they had a ton of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what it was the cube looking thing that overheated a lot i think what was that called at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the time any of the cube the cube

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought it was like get something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John george

⏹️ ▶️ John parameter for cube

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there you go i believe that’s what it was but anyway so i spent some time with a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with max then but other than that in computer labs when i was a young kid i very rarely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey spent any uh spent spent any time with max and i kind of wish that i had spent more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to better appreciate and or understand and or loath a classic mac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it was great it

⏹️ ▶️ John was so much fun to play with like you know because as everything was open there’s no kind of security pre

⏹️ ▶️ John internet and you know tools like reset it that were if not you know they didn’t really come with the s

⏹️ ▶️ John but they were available for apple for free or readily available in your back user group anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John ah just the freedom to just tinker you know but even before without knowing any programming which i didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John to just be able to take dive into your favorite app or game for that matter because a lot of the you know mac

⏹️ ▶️ John games used resource works as well as how to talk to those before i changed all the sprites and crystal

⏹️ ▶️ John quest the game that i was obsessed with and essentially copied the app and in my copy i just used the pixel

⏹️ ▶️ John editor and reset it over the course of days and weeks and drew my own custom versions of all the sprites then i

⏹️ ▶️ John could play that game it was like making making

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco your own game where all

⏹️ ▶️ John i was doing was redrawing the sprites obviously but it was was awesome lots of fun you missed out

Mac Safari UI tweak

Chapter Mac Safari UI tweak image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right let’s start with some follow up and breaking news just before we recorded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there is a new safari tab interface in monterey beta three now i have barely had the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to look at this and i apologize i am falling down on my job as chief summarize in chief but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i guess it looks less dumb question mark i

⏹️ ▶️ John mean i have time to install it but barely because those always updates take forever for whatever reason

⏹️ ▶️ John um so at last episode we were talking about you know how the question of whether

⏹️ ▶️ John apple would continue to make small tweaks and concessions like adding a reload butting in and a share button to

⏹️ ▶️ John the toolbar or whatever or whether they would realize that none of no appeasement of that type is going to

⏹️ ▶️ John suffice and their design is fundamentally flawed their approach of sticking everything into one horizontal

⏹️ ▶️ John error and have everything everything fight it out and having your tab turn into the address bar when you click on and all

⏹️ ▶️ John those things and so apparently in bay to three um they

⏹️ ▶️ John have more or less gone back on that there’s still an option to change it back to the old way as if anyone actually

⏹️ ▶️ John wants that it feels kind of weird that they would include that but what they’ve changed it back to is

⏹️ ▶️ John something much more like the current safari on big sar so or you know or

⏹️ ▶️ John any

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco past

⏹️ ▶️ John version the top bar has your window widgets a configurable to bar that includes an address bar

⏹️ ▶️ John and then below that a line of tabs from edge to edge and your browser and then below that of

⏹️ ▶️ John the bookmarks bar has returned to the place where you can put little folders file bookmarks or javascript bookmarklet

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever the hell right and so it’s basically you know they’ve gone from oh we want this all to be in one

⏹️ ▶️ John road to saying okay well people don’t like that so here we are back to the old solution um a couple things about

⏹️ ▶️ John this though first the tabs that are below the address bar they still look

⏹️ ▶️ John like the rounded rectangles that used to be up there mingling with the address bar and in the previous versions so

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re still they still don’t look like tabs they’ll look like the rounded things and one of the

⏹️ ▶️ John side effects of that design because that design is like a it a like a greyish rounded rectangle with

⏹️ ▶️ John your fave icon and and the tab tax text right and then there’s spacing you know padding between these

⏹️ ▶️ John round wrecks if you compare the height of the address

⏹️ ▶️ John bar plus tab bar in monterey versus big sur now monterey is taller

⏹️ ▶️ John so it actually takes up more vertical space by about eight points then the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John version almost like a punishment like fine you want it to be on two we tried to save you a whole row of space but you didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John like it so you want to have two rows fine now it actually it’s just a side effective probably of the design and the white space

⏹️ ▶️ John they need to have but anyway it is actually taller which is weird and the second question is

⏹️ ▶️ John why are they rounded rectangles back when they were transforming into the address bar it kind of made sense

⏹️ ▶️ John from like a transformational perspective to change from a narrow rounded rectangle to a wider one that

⏹️ ▶️ John contains the address bar like it’s less jarring if that’s the design you’re going with but

⏹️ ▶️ John now that they’re on a line of of their own it doesn’t make any sense for them to

⏹️ ▶️ John not look like tabs and when i say look like tabs i don’t mean like oh you just think whatever the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John look like is tabs in your mind i mean look like tabs as in like the

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of visual you know metaphor the physical analogue there they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John you know reminding you of from the real world which is like tabs on tabbed folders a little piece

⏹️ ▶️ John of something that pokes out that is connected to a larger thing right and when you have a bunch of them all next

⏹️ ▶️ John to each other there are dividing lines between them so you can distinguish you know this tab from that

⏹️ ▶️ John tab from that tab right these don’t look like that they don’t connect anything they’re just floating they look like

⏹️ ▶️ John little ladder bars because that’s what they used to be all that said apple has indicated

⏹️ ▶️ John to everyone who has spoken to them it seems that more changes are on the way so just because

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like this now doesn’t mean it’s going to look like this forever more changes by the way are on their way for ipad

⏹️ ▶️ John and ios as well so i think some of them have changed a little bit in the latest betas but some of them haven’t changed at all but anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John more changes on the way so this is all good that they have

⏹️ ▶️ John at least realized the previous design wasn’t working for everybody and now gives you an option for a much more conventional design

⏹️ ▶️ John but again if you look at this and say okay well i’m going to compare this design to the one in

⏹️ ▶️ John big sur pigs are still better because it takes a up less vertical space and the tabs look more like taps

⏹️ ▶️ John right the one thing this has oh and a few more things that they reverted

⏹️ ▶️ John um the back and forward buttons no longer have to like they no longer have

⏹️ ▶️ John to hide like the forward button when there’s nothing to go forward to because they are so desert or horizontal space right so

⏹️ ▶️ John back forward is now always there and if you can’t go forward it’s great out right now so it’s back forward

⏹️ ▶️ John is always back forward so thumbs up on that the reload button is still there it’s still you know you can

⏹️ ▶️ John pull it from the plain customized to bart is still small but now it goes in the right direction is clockwise

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah what do you think the likelihood is that somebody at apple heard you complaining

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about this and changed it because of you

⏹️ ▶️ John zero um there’s a thousand people at apple who know it’s supposed to go clockwise and they told that six weeks ago they told

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody why is there a button backwards fix it and then it took six weeks for it to get us there’s zero chance that

⏹️ ▶️ John i had anything to do that this is not a this is not a unique insight everyone now which direction are low bun goes

⏹️ ▶️ John it is still too small and also it’s still if anyone listening to this so we can check six

⏹️ ▶️ John weeks from now it still doesn’t disable and there’s nothing to reload all come on come

⏹️ ▶️ John on night the far button disables when there’s nothing to go forward to a good job there the reload button doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John um and then yeah the bookmarks bar i mean it was that even

⏹️ ▶️ John was that even available in the previous version i think no i kind of wish i hadn’t either updated as i

⏹️ ▶️ John could check it like in the old one when it was all one line was the bookmark

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey or oh no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m sorry i misunderstood you i don’t know actually

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway that that is more or less unchanged from how it isn’t big sir um

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so

⏹️ ▶️ John a good job apple for hearing either hearing the cries from outside apple or potentially

⏹️ ▶️ John hearing the cries from inside apple everything keep minded everything we receive here in the outside world including

⏹️ ▶️ John the vel rebates is you know days or weeks removed from when this change was actually made inside apple so

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re kind of living in apples past perpetually so we can’t it’s hard to you know what case he was

⏹️ ▶️ John getting at it’s hard to actually connect anything that we complain about on a podcast or someone blogs about what apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John actions but you know even though we may be a trailing indicator of our opinions i’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ John are also echoed inside apple and then i’m glad to see them taking some steps in this direction it is still a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit concerning that they still have the old version as an option because it’s like the whole what reason you’re doing the change is because so many

⏹️ ▶️ John people didn’t like the old one are there you know fervent fans of the old option that makes like

⏹️ ▶️ John what other app from apple has two entirely different you eyes granted there’s not much there’s not much you i

⏹️ ▶️ John to speak of in a web browser it’s mostly the webpage but anyway as far as the eye exist the

⏹️ ▶️ John two bar in the web browser is it for a web browser and apple’s going to ship an app that has two entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John different you eyes up there seems very un apple like and maybe they just didn’t get around

⏹️ ▶️ John to falling exercising that code or maybe they just don’t want to make the people who design that feel bad

⏹️ ▶️ John i will be watching the next day this to see if the option to switch back to the one that nobody likes

⏹️ ▶️ John remains

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i’m i’m very glad to see that they are now changing big things you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they they started out the last couple of betas changing small things and we were all you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screaming and yelling like this this is on fire people and they’re like changing a little tiny thing so this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is good in the sense that you know i think i think the the previous one was definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco massively on fire and they changed a big thing now they they put the tabs back to where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tab should be and i think you know you’re right john they don’t look like tabs and in particular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tabs the reason why tabs have been used in interfaces for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco literally decades quite successfully and across many different platforms in many different contexts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is because they visually make sense people get them and they also don’t look bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so you know when you look at browser today you know not not this news so far but like i look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a regular release browser today the concept of like what’s the current tab

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is extremely clear you can tell very quickly what tab you’re on it it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obvious that i think is the biggest area where this one falls down in addition to as you mentioned you know just the waste

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of space it’s hard to tell what the current tab is unless you look very carefully at a very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very low contrast difference between two colors especially

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have two tabs that’s always the problem with trying to indicate state with a subtle shift in in like tint

⏹️ ▶️ John if you just have two of them it’s not always obvious if the lighter or darker one is supposed to be the active one it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a guessing game you don’t have to do if you implement tabs in a way that again reflects the real world

⏹️ ▶️ John where a tab would be attached to a larger thing and so you just see where it’s attached to see where there is no line dividing

⏹️ ▶️ John it that’s the active one because it attaches to the toolbar or everyone to conceptualizes that’s how

⏹️ ▶️ John you can tell what the current tab is in safari and big circus it’s the tab that connects to the

⏹️ ▶️ John address bar without a dividing line right exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yes

⏹️ ▶️ John there is also a tint to it but you don’t have to worry about the tent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i feel like reinventing tabs is kind of like reinventing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buttons in the ui you know you can try it you can try to totally you know if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want to make check boxes that don’t look anything like check boxes that don’t even have like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know any kind of indicating checkmark that just maybe like you click it and like it slides over or something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some totally different visual look but the functionality is supposed to be like a check box like you can do that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but your customers are going to show you or tell you at some point that’s not successful and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that checkboxes were fine and they should look like check boxes and that’s how people expect them to look and that’s how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they will work if they look you know like that i think that this is you’re not the exact same problem with tabs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were trying to design an interface that is functionally tabs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that doesn’t look anything like tabs is not going to work very well and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so this is a good this is a very good you know temporary step and i get the feeling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco based on the pace of these changes and the severity of these changes i get the feeling that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think inside apple they do know that so far as you are is kind of on fire and they are rushing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to to fix it so i’m i’m heartened by that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they need to go further like this this is not enough i’m glad to see this they need to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go further and and i think and i hope that they will

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iPhone Safari UI proposal

Chapter iPhone Safari UI proposal image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now as for the iphone version of safari they went slightly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far in that like so in this latest round bet as it came out today the ivan version of safari made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a significant change in that normally before in this beta series when you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would tap the big giant annoying floating bar on the bottom to enter an address or type

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a search query when you would focus on the text field it would fly to the top of the screen and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’d be typing into the text field way at the top of the screen for some reason and that was very disorienting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it made it hard to do muscle memory and to locate it visually and everything else so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this new one they have basically turned the address bar into a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing that attaches to the top of the keyboard window so as the keyboard window slides

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the that giant horrible translucent bar translucent blob really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not really a bar bar doesn’t go the way across um that giant translucent blob turns into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a grey opaque bar with the blob in the middle of it that sticks to the top of the keyboard as it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slides up so it ends up you know in the middle of the screen roughly because that’s on top of the keyboard instead of floating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the top this is an improvement but this is still not a good design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i’m really again i’m i’m encouraged i am heartened to see they’re moving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the right direction here the right direction is basically take everything new about this and throw it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco away and go back to the way it was because that was better but they’re going in the right direction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i’m cool with that even though they still have a long way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to go on the iphone and the mac version is getting closer to normal the iphone still has a long way to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go and i have my own ideas on that i should i should i was going to say i should blog about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i’m like no i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i should i really shouldn’t i probably

⏹️ ▶️ John won’t but by the time you got the block bus up another beta would be out and i it would be out of date it’s hard to blog

⏹️ ▶️ John about betas because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this is

⏹️ ▶️ John not a permanent thing like think if you had written a big blog post about it and then they just change the mac version right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that would be the top post on my site for six months um exactly and ever

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so maybe a show

⏹️ ▶️ John but i still haven’t used the iphone version oh it’s still it’s still pretty bad but

⏹️ ▶️ John what you’re saying is like oh they should go back to the other way i think i’m kind of with what casey has said about his

⏹️ ▶️ John experience with it and that i like the idea of a lot of the you are being down at the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John um i don’t know if that necessarily includes the address bar but i feel like sticking

⏹️ ▶️ John to the top of the keyboard it is a reasonable like the reason the reason

⏹️ ▶️ John i would want it to be down low is like i don’t know if this is still the case in

⏹️ ▶️ John i was fifteen but for pretty good reasons auto correct is not the same in the address

⏹️ ▶️ John bar because you can you imagine trying to type in the name of some company that misspell his name like you generally generally lets you type

⏹️ ▶️ John what you want and then you realize how much you rely on auto correct because very often when you’re typing something in the address bar

⏹️ ▶️ John you know you have mistakes and so that’s why i want the address bar be to be near where my thumbs can

⏹️ ▶️ John reach when they’re typing so i can reposition the thing and i know you can just hold down on the keyboard and you get the insertion

⏹️ ▶️ John point or whatever but i just feel like having everything localized to that area makes me feel more

⏹️ ▶️ John comfortable you know placing the insertion point the old fashioned way or if i want to actually drag it or select

⏹️ ▶️ John a piece of it or whatever you know like that i think that’s a reasonable compromise doesn’t take away the

⏹️ ▶️ John the other bad things about the floating bar and how it doesn’t pin to the bottom and all that other stuff but i’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John you know again saying this is someone who’s still not used the iphone safari fifteen i’m still not entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John willing to give up on the idea that is it is actually better to have more crap in on the bottom of the safari you on the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no and i agree with you on that like actually having used this for you know a few weeks now i am on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco board with putting things on the bottom that are that are the things that you need most and i think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the search slash address bar is one of those things so conceptually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that does make sense as an error to explore and i think there’s a way that you could get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something good and use lot of this i guess i don’t have to talk about it i’ll just talk about the wonders of broadcasting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uh what i would change about this in in broad strokes i don’t want to get too specific

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because frankly i haven’t put that much thought into it because it i just came out today but what i what i would change in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco broad strokes is the bar that like right now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it goes between the kind of like long pill shaped like the big like floating oval

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that has this giant drop shadow that overlays the web page and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you scroll it shrinks down to an opaque skinny bar that just has the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the like domain name on it and you can tap that i like to then bring up the big floating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco giant shadow bar to me that distinction needs to be reduced it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too jarring it still changes too much and frankly i think having that big floating bar when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s when it’s in like blob mode on top of the text of the web page with a giant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drop shadow so it stands out and you can see it looks terrible it makes everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco under it incredibly unreadable and cluttered looking and it’s serving no purpose whatsoever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for us to see what is behind that bar at that moment because again it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco covered in a giant rapture you can only see a couple words of it anyway and it’s and it’s cluttered and unreadable so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole concept of having the like active mode of that bar float above

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom area of the screen i think is a design failure which can be very easily remedied make it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a tool bar tool bars go all the way across and they have a like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know point five pixel border on top and then a tiny little drop shadow on top of that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so they stand out from the content so it not only saves a ton of space but is way more readable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is permanently stood out from the page i know that they’re they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all about having the background extend under and around everything for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons i’m still not convinced of those reasons but i know that’s the direction they go with their design right now fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay we can have more background colour and break everybody’s webpage you is but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this particular aspect of this design if that tool bar if the if the the like active version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that was also an opaque bar that went all the way across and went straight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the bottom just like the like inactive version of it is where it shrinks down to just the name of the of the domain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would be a substantially better looking you eye so that that would fix a lot about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the clutter and the the weird that that massive drops out of it i think is is a travesty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of design in context of putting it over web page text that would fix those major issues

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now there are still other issues with this i do think if you’re going to have the address bar at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom having it set up with the keyboard and be right above the keyboard is not bad i think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s probably a good compromise for where to put the address bar then the question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco becomes what do you do with all the other functionality because right now one of the big problems i have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with this design inactive use is that everything just takes more taps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the common case if you’re reading web page and want to do something go to a different webpage close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the webpage reload the webpage share it do anything like that search the meals you have to do two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco taps now you have to first tap the shrunk version of the tool bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you have to either tap the dress bar which is there good okay or you have to tap the ellipsis

⏹️ ▶️ Marco button and then tap whatever you want from there so it’s like everything is more and more taps away

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s under more modes and junk drawers and everything else that needs to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco collapsed in its hierarchy like like you know flattened the organization like that needs to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fewer taps to do common things fewer modes fewer different changes of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is constantly bouncing between so i know this is radical apple however

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one thing we have in great surplus on these modern phones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is vertical space we have tons of vertical space

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re about you’re about to introduce the ribbon aren’t you no god no

⏹️ ▶️ John no apple calls it the ribbon comes around the bottom of the screen you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what i’m going to introduce toolbars holy crap toolbars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they i know i know you invented them in the stone age example they’re still the best solution

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a lot of cases and i think what this needs to be is a tool bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that doesn’t change to two different modes or three different modes or four different modes just a tool bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is fixed in size and position that always shows the same controls

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that way you don’t have to tap it in extra time to wake it up to do something else you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to worry about what how how it’s going to expand and contract and all the different problems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that arise from that you don’t have to worry about what content is going to be under and behind it because there is no content

⏹️ ▶️ Marco under and behind it it’s so much simpler and it works better and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet when you’re in like the scrolling through a long article mode you might lose twenty points a hide on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom who cares these phones are so tall and skinny we have that space to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spare you don’t what i do i have the real estate of a tennis and what better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way to use that space than the most commonly used controls being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearer faster and easier to act access to me it’s a no brainer give

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a fixed height tool bar that always shows the relevant controls

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i mean it seems logical again i actually am trying to update my whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone is this old phone of mine trying to get on the latest bats so i can fiddle with it a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit but in principle i agree with you you know i am not a particularly great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey designer in fact i would say i’m probably a pretty poor designer but i feel like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not it’s table stakes for a user interface to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if not predictable then unsurprising and when things are jumping around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to you on you all the time it’s infuriating a great example of this and i feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple does oh you know what this is is like when you go to the the whatever screen it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called the today view or whatever on your phone where it has like widgets and things and i’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be looking at the apple news widget which honestly i should just remove from my darn screen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today view but i haven’t but i’ll be looking at it and i’ll be reading the headlines and i’ll see oh you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know i actually would like to read that and i’ll go to tap on it and by the time i’ve made the decision and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey move my finger to tap on the particular headline it has done a refresh and is now showing me all the new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff another great example of this is like if you’re loading a web page and i can’t think of a particular example but you’re loading

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a web page and you’re trying to find the thing you want you find the link you want and you go to click on it but then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like some ad at the top or some other you know element in the dom is shrunk or expanded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or been added or subtracted and suddenly the link you tried to click is moved a hundred pixels north

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or south and it is absolutely infuriating it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey absolutely infuriating when things dance around like that this is what you are saying marco and and i think that for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a user interface it needs to be basically predictable and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i guess i would get used to this dancing about but it doesn’t feel predictable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the moment or at least in the little bit of time i played with it i think we all agree it certainly sounds like we all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey agree that putting more emphasis on the bottom of the screen is good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s this dancing about and i agree like i’m not as offended by the drop shadows and whatnot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i agree with you that i don’t think they they’re additive i think if anything they make things a little harder

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see which again is what you said but moving stuff to the bottom thumbs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up all this other junk that best a sideways thumb in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two the thumbs down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to be clear like i’m not saying go back to the old toolbar i’m not even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco commenting on what should be in the tool bar i recognize there’s this is a limited amount

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of horizontal space to cram a certain number of controls in there you know once you have a bar although

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that being said the current you know floating blob with the drop shot of toolbar has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less horizontal space than it could because it is a floating blob if it was a full width

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fixed position tool bar you could fit at least one more button on it and possibly too depending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on how much how much you were run to crush the um the address bar but you know moving the address

⏹️ ▶️ Marco part of the bottom okay you know i personally wasn’t looking for that but i could see the argument for a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people doing that that makes sense you know that i think can be can be work shopped but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just have the toolbar be a toolbar cause that’s what it’s functionally trying to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now but it’s being a terrible toolbar now it’s it’s being very hard to both look at and use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if if it wants to be a toolbar logically let it be a toolbar make it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make it a damn good toolbar not this crappy you know floating bouncy thing and in what you’re saying case but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know things bouncing around i think that’s something that we as an industry you know not just even beyond

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple but but certainly apple is part of it or you eyes so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco often lack stability like this it’s such a critical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you want the ui to be stable you want to not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like not every surface should be live like you know you feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if you’re going to like you know pick up the phone or you’re going to like try to select some text on a web page with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mouse on a desktop or something the like you don’t want every single thing that you could click on or accidently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco brush against with your finger on the phone to be something that is live that does something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want stability you want things to feel solid and predictable and forgiving and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not be so susceptible to to things like accidental input or imprecision

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in an input or things like that that people are doing things unintentionally and you also don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want the you are to be moving around if people are trying to use it and i feel like that there’s you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of the current like the mac design language

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these days of everything being hidden behind hover states and then things animate somewhere out of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way and change where they are like this is all violations of ou i stability it makes everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a hot zone or a live zone and things are jumping around and it’s disorienting and it’s and it’s inefficient

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and it’s unintuitive as well and undiscovered and all sorts of other problems like you know in this case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything you can do to make you eye more stable in the sense that things don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco move around too much there aren’t too many different modes where things come in and out or slide around

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or or pop in or pop out that makes it easier and better and more calm to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for more people and it’s just it’s a better design if you can do that and i think apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very close to that here i think they can they can take the best of this which is like look if you like the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new like you know multi tab view and and the tab groups and everything and if you like the idea of moving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after part of the bottom we can have all of that in a better design this like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of that does not depend on the design being this exact thing we can have all that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a usable visually less distracting and easier to see and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use you i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i like your use of stability and stable much more than what i was saying about being predictable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think that’s a more accurate description because you can be predictable with this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the new safari is predictable it’s just not stable so i appreciate that i think your word is much better

John’s Safari UI proposal

Chapter John's Safari UI proposal image.

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s a little bit more than stability to bring back my favorite hobby horse it’s what we’re talking about

⏹️ ▶️ John is you know it’s like the spatial finder in that the stability

⏹️ ▶️ John that we’re craving is the stability that we’re used to from interacting with the real world like

⏹️ ▶️ John if we were to arrange items somewhere in front of us and reach for one and as soon as you reach for it it grows and

⏹️ ▶️ John moves to left by five inches if it did that every single time it’s predictable but that’s not the way things

⏹️ ▶️ John act in the real world so our bodies and minds are not attuned to

⏹️ ▶️ John the idea of reach for something and be aware that when you reach for it will always move five inches to the left

⏹️ ▶️ John and you have to anticipate that motion and cause nothing we interact with every day behaves

⏹️ ▶️ John that way in the real world so when we talk about spatial interfaces there are interfaces that take advantage

⏹️ ▶️ John of the skills that we have from both you know evolution and our genes but also our life in the

⏹️ ▶️ John real world where we must manipulate objects in space all the time and every part of our motor system and visual

⏹️ ▶️ John system is tuned to do that so when we say stable what we’re basically saying is

⏹️ ▶️ John behave more like things behave in real life it doesn’t mean you make everything a physical analogue you to put a three

⏹️ ▶️ John d engine in a physics engine ensure you i it simply means that like that it feels

⏹️ ▶️ John unstable to us because it behaves in a way that we don’t expect when

⏹️ ▶️ John virtually are really reaching for something and will tolerate you know the magic of

⏹️ ▶️ John the computer oh that the bar will minimize when we’re not looking at it and then we’ll have to maybe do something

⏹️ ▶️ John to make it get big again right that is reasonable magic of like okay the drawers close the

⏹️ ▶️ John drawers open right you know i’ve shoved that aside and i’ve pulled it back into view right it’s not as if we need

⏹️ ▶️ John everything to be like oh i can’t use the interface unless they actually yank the bar up from the bottom i don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John how it comes up on its own it’s like we’re not asking for that but once you sort of perturb

⏹️ ▶️ John the you know the the mind body connection the sort of hand eye coordination of going for the thing

⏹️ ▶️ John even if it’s a hundred percent predictable like the little floaty bar is it feels disconcerting

⏹️ ▶️ John it feels annoying because every time we go for it we have to do this little override of our normal

⏹️ ▶️ John oh you’re reaching for a thing it’s oh you’re reaching for a thing and it will be you know fifty points higher

⏹️ ▶️ John than you expect to be in it it’s frustrating um i put in the in our

⏹️ ▶️ John slack channel marker view chap chapter art for this section if you would like

⏹️ ▶️ John i i a thought this is kind of where you were going this or you didn’t go all the way there but i would say for those

⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t look at their chapter art or have a bad podcast player or if margaret doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John put it in it’s the classic picture of like what is it word six in windows ninety five yeah with

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco all the middle bars turned are

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah with who knows if it’s really all of them but so many two bars turned on that there’s one line of text

⏹️ ▶️ John visible in the presumably six forty by four eighty window and everything else is just tool bars or status

⏹️ ▶️ John bars um these type of you know these ridiculous interfaces obviously taken to

⏹️ ▶️ John an extreme like it’s not a great interface in this part of what microsoft

⏹️ ▶️ John went with the ribbon but it has the advantage that it gave the user some

⏹️ ▶️ John flexibility to choose what they had in their tool bar and in general these two

⏹️ ▶️ John bars is ridiculous as they look pretty much you know if you put in the little

⏹️ ▶️ John stripe of the toolbar that has those things in it they pretty much stay there and they’re just there the whole time you’re using the

⏹️ ▶️ John program and they don’t move around when you try to click on them and there wasn’t much contextual

⏹️ ▶️ John like oh when you’re in this mode suddenly a new two or item appears and pushes everything out of the way they were pretty stable to

⏹️ ▶️ John use marcos were behaved more like things that you would arrange in front of you

⏹️ ▶️ John in your workspace right and as marine out on the phone we do actually have a lot of vertical space

⏹️ ▶️ John i think on modern iphones giving people two things one giving the iphone

⏹️ ▶️ John some iphone native analog to configurable tool bars which have been on the mac forever is not

⏹️ ▶️ John a ridiculous idea we had that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually remember the very first iphone had that where you could like change around the order of stuff like in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco music and stuff on the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John lots of lots of modern iowa have had

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that my one five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those are tab bars on toolbars

⏹️ ▶️ John we i know the names don’t make any sense but anyway a bar on the screen that has buttons and you can customize them and rearrange

⏹️ ▶️ John them and do all the stuff like that you know but there’s never been like an official os supported like like there hasn’t macos

⏹️ ▶️ John ten had an official you are for this that still exists in many apps including safari for that matter where

⏹️ ▶️ John the sheet comes down and obviously that won’t work on the phone they’d have to be some sort of phone version of that but rather than having every developer

⏹️ ▶️ John all their on have that and the second thing is you know because that lets you fret less about like what

⏹️ ▶️ John the defaults are pick good defaults have a one line to a bar with some like whatever buttons you think are the most important

⏹️ ▶️ John to be always visible but i bet a lot of people would actually appreciate the ability

⏹️ ▶️ John to customize that and b add a second row who wants two rows of buttons i don’t know maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John someone like they want five favorite things or they want to put you know maybe combine it with the

⏹️ ▶️ John bookmarks bar apple ups combining multiple things right like it’s not ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ John to think that the sort of expanded version of that bottom bar couldn’t survive

⏹️ ▶️ John on like you know an any like anything except for the ifo mini with two rows because when you

⏹️ ▶️ John pull up that large you y you’re about to do a thing share the web page type

⏹️ ▶️ John in a new address a run a javascript bookmarklet to do something to the page

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re on like whatever you’re going to do a thing at the moment you’re doing that thing you’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John concerned at all with the one extra row of text that is obscured by the now double height tool bar that

⏹️ ▶️ John comes up and the floating blob is way higher than two rows of a stuck to the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John toolbar would be so this this is obviously not the direction apple is going with any of it is

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all about minimize hide throwing a junk drawer but i think that

⏹️ ▶️ John an iphone and certainly an eye pad sitting on iphone but even just on the iphone a customizable

⏹️ ▶️ John to a bar and the ability to do more than one road not obviously the word six ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ John thing here where you feel your safari thing or whatever but most people wouldn’t use it most people might not even know that you could ever

⏹️ ▶️ John go to the rose but i think enough people would that is worthwhile because it’s not like

⏹️ ▶️ John you know when you do that it’s not like you are worried about covering up one or two more rows of text on your web page

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but again the iphone mini totally has the space it’s it has the screen real estate of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iphone ten and ten is the phones that we all used for like those years like it it has a lot of screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco real estate

⏹️ ▶️ John and the ipad that could almost get away with a mac like you i mean with a pop over a customizable

⏹️ ▶️ John tomorrow so there’s plenty of room again i’m not saying by the fault and i’m not saying make it word six but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s not unreasonable and if they did that i feel like there would be

⏹️ ▶️ John much less put back not because people crave double height tool bars but just because people would think

⏹️ ▶️ John oh well i’m not going to use that but if i ever wanted it’s nice that it’s there and the people who do want it will love it so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like no harm no foul to anybody else because it doesn’t introduce you know let’s say they move into the bottom like oh i like

⏹️ ▶️ John that they moved everything to the bottom and they won’t even know that there’s a customizable to where there can be two rows but the people

⏹️ ▶️ John who do know will love it so it’s it’s win win anyway call me i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would totally use that because we you know first of all you know you have to cram in the address bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now get down there in that area and so that would leave more room for things like a dedicated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reload button i don’t have to do the pull of refresh which doesn’t always work i’m not always at the very top of the page or you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know i could have for instance a one password button you know because now that we have a native extension support in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco safari or better attention support at least and then and you have all the you know different share extensions you could put in there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like imagine how cool it would be to be able to put any of your safari action extensions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the new weather extension things as a button in that second row of that toolbar like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have we have uses for it and as john pointed out the current design with the big floating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar is actually so tall because it’s so far off the bottom of the screen that it’s not you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t actually have enough space to put two rows there but you almost do like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that became a solid tool bar you could make it only a little bit taller and have two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco space for two rows

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe if you also count the shadow that bleeds out above the thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh definitely you include that you definitely already have a space because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John already like obscuring the web page and making girls anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s already unreadable area because you have this giant shocking it hopefully

Design feedback loop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i remember like you know when i was seven was first in beta the first couple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of betas maybe possibly even just the first one used an incredibly thin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco variant of helvetica super thin only and it was so ridiculously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thin that it proved to be pretty difficult to use and very early

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the beta process for iowa seven apple adjusted the font weights to be a little bit thicker system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wide and we we are now able to look back on those very like beta

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one iowa seven screen shots and the marketing pages that were made for it and we can look back and laugh at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how ridiculous that that ultra skinny fun was i hope this version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of safari becomes that in the future like i hope we were able to look back at this as like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco failed experiment that’s slightly amusing in retrospect as we all use a much more useable version that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hopefully they will ship by this fall but

⏹️ ▶️ John it is kind of funny that the you know two prominent ui redesigns were both

⏹️ ▶️ John safari and both of them looked like they might be you know back paddling on the top tabs now this one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i mean it is worth considering like how did they get to this state you know typically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most apple software interface like most apple you eyes when they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come out they tend to just be finally like this this is just what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is and it comes out and sometimes it lands like a lot of balloon but it doesn’t usually get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco revised in public like this and so first of all i’m not saying that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good i and more often and maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco public feedback should be taken into consideration more like maybe the notifications on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mac and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey spicer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco please for the love of god fix

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey notification how did that possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not change she monterey but anyway there’s still time maybe maybe i’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get there anyway i do think it’s worth considering like is there something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up with the feedback loop inside the company like why why is this stuff able to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get out when honestly the stuff about it that’s just really bad and then also why do they seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of blindsided when the republic says hey that’s bad like why why do they get out in the first place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and why is it so surprising to them when we don’t like it like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you would think maybe they they would have like some kind of insight into like maybe they would show

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to some i know i know that they don’t do focus groups that often but like maybe they show to some people and say hey what do you think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this you know like how does it get out in the way it is when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so obvious to us in the outside like certain things about it aren’t good

⏹️ ▶️ John can i think of the people who make it even if you were to show it to a folkestone or get feedback

⏹️ ▶️ John from internal employees or whatever the easy comeback for the people who are heavily in favor of the thing they designed is

⏹️ ▶️ John well we won’t really know until the public ceases so let’s just wait to hear from the public which to the credit of the safari

⏹️ ▶️ John team like they’ve tried these ui experiments you know top tabs now this and are reacting to

⏹️ ▶️ John feedback which is good and it’s what they should do but up until the point where it lands in the general public

⏹️ ▶️ John you can always say well it’s just internal apple people and we are not representative of the general public oh that’s just a

⏹️ ▶️ John focus group let’s wait until we see it or you know like you can always just say that’s all well and good but

⏹️ ▶️ John we really have to wait until the people see it to let us know and in that way you can make sure something

⏹️ ▶️ John lives to see the light of day and go out to the public if you are really vociferously

⏹️ ▶️ John for it and you have enough sway with in the organ it seems like you know the you i folks within

⏹️ ▶️ John individual products do and probably should have you know more or less final say of the

⏹️ ▶️ John ui of the thing that they are making right even if the whole rest of apple tells the safari team we don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John the new safari you re the var team can always say well that’s great but you’re not on the var team we are and let’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John wait to see what the people say and you know all right also there has been some

⏹️ ▶️ John public opinion and they are making changes i’d say that’s pretty healthy i’m not particularly worried about

⏹️ ▶️ John like oh how did this get out because it is a beta how did this get out is in its ships final i would be much

⏹️ ▶️ John more worried about but it seems like we’re not going down that road

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and and as long as like if bad stuff comes out in beta but then they do listen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to feedback and make it better before release then then that would be fine like that’s i don’t again i don’t think that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the common case of that but that’s why you know we’re not able to point to a lot of examples of that in recent history but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that’s how they want to do things from now on that happens more and more that’s i don’t see anything wrong with that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as long as that feedback loop does function correctly once it does get up to the public opinion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stage and people can test it and report back and say hey this you know this part of the design doesn’t work and then they actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco listen and they actually do fix it in that beta cycle rather than like five years later when they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco decide to look at it again so if that’s the way we’re going to be in for this kind of stuff sometimes that’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the good thing is it does seem like right now that feedback cycle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is working and they are refining and they are seemingly going to make it something better than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what it is now before it’s release in you know two months um so i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m encouraged one thing i’m also encouraged by is if you notice like the um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is something i noticed this today because you so rarely see broken animations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from apple but the animation when the keyboard slides up in iphone safari

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the floating soap bar turns into the address bar that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco above the keyboard now that’s fixed there the animation’s not right the keyboard slides

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up a little bit slower than the bar does and so as it goes up there’s a slight gap that forms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then disappears between the top of the keyboard and the bottom of that bar and it’s something that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again like apples so so often nails animation so well i can’t think of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last time i saw a broken animation shipping in an apple product again shipping is enclosed this is a beta

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the reason i find this encouraging is that it makes it feel more like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re busting their butts to fix this quickly like it makes it seem like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh they’re they’re on fire over there now and they are rushing and they are actually making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big changes quickly because they know they have to that i like to see like cause that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that shows that that you know a eh they’re listening be they’re changing things and see they’re probably not done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet and that’s that’s encouraging

⏹️ ▶️ John i think i can safely say now that it was a mistake to put this info up i’m sorry i didn’t know margaret had so much to say about

⏹️ ▶️ John it

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AppleCare for cosmetic damage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are fifty minutes in and maybe we can get through follow up item number two which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are a mess josh who as an eleven year apple retail veteran i wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to write with regard to what i’ll call elective applecare repair so this was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was talking last week about how i’ve i dropped my iphone many and scuffed up the outside rim of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the aluminum and it was like kind of sharp and like well it’s not really enough damage to get an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco applecare replacement so it’s just kind of frustrating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yep so josh wrote apple doesn’t provide service for what they would term cosmetic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey damage quote what this means in practice is that the genius or tech specialist at the stores looking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for an actual cracked screen or back plate or some other non functional component their visual

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mechanical inspection guide which most of them know by memory for situation like this instructs them not to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey provide service of any kind in or out of warranty paid or free for a device that’s just roughed up in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other words a customer can’t choose to invoke apple care plus at their own discretion even if they want to pay a hundred dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a replacement phone this is still josh writing i assume the reason for it is a combination of apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not wanting to lose massive amounts of money on replacement phones and a concern for the environmental impact of providing replacement phones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in wide circumstances as it turns out customers generally expect a replacement phone for nearly anything wrong so this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t unreasonable in my opinion says josh i i don’t know man

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have mixed feelings about this like thankfully i haven’t been in a position where i’ve wanted to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do this sort of thing because either my phone is freaking shattered or it’s been in good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shape but i mean i i don’t know if it’s obviously roughed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up and damaged and if the person wants to pay the hundred bucks then why not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well i mean it does make some sense you know for the reason that that that you know they site here like it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make some sense but it also in practice creates this really strange incentive like if i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to if i want to replace my phone i should just drop it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and break it like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that’s kind of a straight ride screen yeah but i really

⏹️ ▶️ John like i think apple would be you know if you get a good person in retail like let’s say for example you scuffed

⏹️ ▶️ John the side of your phone in a way that now there’s a sharp metal that could cut you it’s still cosmetic like but you

⏹️ ▶️ John like perturbed the aluminum and made like a little sharp flag shit out i bet they would be flexible

⏹️ ▶️ John and say look this thing can actually hurt me now and so even though nothing is broke and broken what can you do and people have

⏹️ ▶️ John discretion to do the right thing that’s part of the service we expected an apple stores if it actually is a case

⏹️ ▶️ John like that and if it’s not and your super desperate for another phone yeah just just break the class

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah which is it’s i mean that’s terrible but and i don’t think i could make myself do it

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s terrible but like really like yeah like you shouldn’t do it you should like the only

⏹️ ▶️ John the reason i would ever do that is if i did have a phone that had like essentially a sharp piece of metal that could actually

⏹️ ▶️ John cut me and i couldn’t find any at an apple retail to be willing to do a replacement under

⏹️ ▶️ John apple care be like well because i feel like that is a non functional phone if i can’t hold it without

⏹️ ▶️ John literally cutting myself am i supposed to just get out the metal file and just start that seems excessive so

⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like maybe if i was in that situation and and somehow the apple

⏹️ ▶️ John store employees were not flexible i would just you know put a little nick in the glass and say up now it qualifies

⏹️ ▶️ John i

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco still have not in front of the person you should write yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i still couldn’t make myself do it honestly like it would be like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco having

⏹️ ▶️ John to make this with this very convoluted scenario to just know the piece of metal sticking out that cuts you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well i mean maybe maybe one angle is like what if you’ve scuffed up the outside such that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now worth substantially less on resale or trading and you have apple care and so it’s like if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i could pay a hundred bucks to get a new phone and then trade that in maybe i would make more from the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trade in then you know this one that you know gazelle or whatever just rejected because of the side

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scuffed up like it does create some weird holes like that but ultimately it’s one of those things where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i see why they have their policy the way it is now because that would result in a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like pretty unnecessary replacements too so it’s one of those things like you got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to think of everything apple does in these areas as how could people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really scam the crap out of this for their own benefit because apple is such a massive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco target for scammers to try to exploit and so this is one of those things were like yeah this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it makes sense that they would have some kind of reasonable limits on when they will replace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a device for apple care even if you pay for it

⏹️ ▶️ John once again put a case on your phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you never going case less again tell me that right now

Photo-ingest follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had a bunch of follow up for importing photos onto your devices and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there were two very big themes here one of which was just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use the lightning dusty card camera reader guys why wouldn’t you do that i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have tried this in the past or with an ipad pro that has usb c you of using a sd

⏹️ ▶️ Casey card dongle this just never worked for my brain like i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just did not enjoy the process i didn’t enjoy doing it on the eye pad despite the screen being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phenomenal i just didn’t like it and maybe it would work for for you certainly a lot of people seem to do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it this way i didn’t like it also i wasn’t confident how it would handle raws both in terms

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of whether or not it would ingest them and in a lot of cases i wanted to eat the raw but i don’t want to leave the jpeg

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and i don’t think there’s really a mechanism for doing that on the ipad and even if there is it must

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be clunky it would be my assumption so not for me but a lot of people wrote in about it and and the lightning

⏹️ ▶️ Casey test card camera or in the case of a you know older ipad or a phone it’s like thirty bucks or something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that which is kind of a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like this is almost like a generational thing and that we’re always thinking that we were asked about our

⏹️ ▶️ John photo ingest process and all of us talked about how we get photos from our cameras to our max right but for a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John people their phone or their ipad is the primary computing device in their life maybe they

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t even have a desktop computer or a listen right and so in that case in just means

⏹️ ▶️ John like what they’re trying to do is essentially get it into their icloud photo library it’s like well why wouldn’t you connect

⏹️ ▶️ John it to your phone it’s you know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco connect

⏹️ ▶️ John to your computer my computers at home what are you even talking about my

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco phone is

⏹️ ▶️ John ways with me and so i’ll just you know plug in the lightning sd card reader an import and then it goes into my

⏹️ ▶️ John icloud photo library and you know they don’t have the issues that you are just ascribing of like i

⏹️ ▶️ John want to have j player and to sort through them and so and so forth so yeah this was a very big feedback

⏹️ ▶️ John theme and i think there is definitely two classes of people one that wants to bring their

⏹️ ▶️ John photos onto their mac and one that doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there are ten kinds of people that understand binary and then the other big recommendation we got which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i do want to try but i haven’t yet is for an app called photo mechanic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i didn’t look at pricing for this i’ve no idea if it’s free or if it’s a bazillion dollars but one example of somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrote in about it peter kaiser wrote it has a great previewer to look through all the images

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the sd card you’re ingesting from before you ingest them and you can discard the ones you don’t want to ingest than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you do ingest you can rename the images on the fly based on whatever variables you want to specify you can also have them ingested

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to two different locations at once for for example peter says you know i ingest into my synology nas and to a dedicated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo drive on an external hard drive so this looks like it is up my alley

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but again i haven’t had a chance to try yet

⏹️ ▶️ John so this everyone who recommended this was like either was a professional photographer or heard about it from a

⏹️ ▶️ John professional photographer i haven’t looked deeply into it but it strikes me as a an expensive program and b

⏹️ ▶️ John a program that is probably i’m going to say that probably awful

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like

⏹️ ▶️ John from like from the perspective of an outsider in the same way that you were to throw some random

⏹️ ▶️ John person who used the garage band if you were to throw them into to protools they’d be like what the hell is this app this app stinks

⏹️ ▶️ John right but professionals a put up with weary eyes they just become accustomed to and b have

⏹️ ▶️ John great loyalty to a weird old program that does one

⏹️ ▶️ John job really really well so it seems like there’s a lot of loyalty to this program for people who

⏹️ ▶️ John needed to do the one thing this thing does this is not a tool for you know getting your things into icloud photo library

⏹️ ▶️ John because i don’t think i mean it seems like it’s not it seems like this is like your job is photos

⏹️ ▶️ John over there and you want them on your computer and this is a swiss army knife to do that right and it’s a fast

⏹️ ▶️ John one and has a fast previewer like it’s it’s sort of you know high performance work for oriented professional

⏹️ ▶️ John photographer is probably overkill for the average person but because it was recommended so much i think it’s worth

⏹️ ▶️ John at least checking out ah maybe they have a demo or something and this will be good

⏹️ ▶️ John for your old work full case but remember you’re going to switch over to you like that photolysis you won’t need

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this any am i though anyway photo mechanic six we can follow up a hundred and forty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollars us and then there’s a photo mechanic plus that includes things that i don’t think any of us are interested

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in but that’s two hundred and thirty dollars so a hundred and forty for what i think would be sufficient for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me chris hancock writes with regard to an apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know manufactured apple branded camera like standalone camera a chris hancock rights instead of a whole

⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera could apple make a quote made for apple photos quote certification for other cameras to plug

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into upside for them is the services revenue from driving more eye clad storage plus i’m sure they’d

⏹️ ▶️ Casey charge the camera manufacturers too i don’t see this happening but i like the principle

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it i mean it sounds like a cool like happy medium i don’t think it really solves all the problems that we were lamenting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s certainly interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John and it would solve a lot of problems in that apple would force these camera companies to have some kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of reasonable like fast apple native supporting import

⏹️ ▶️ John mechanism may be even wireless instead of the just universally terrible as as margo at apps

⏹️ ▶️ John that are made by the camera companies themselves who have no idea how to make software and they just why they don’t look

⏹️ ▶️ John at the native for any platform like it doesn’t look like a native mac program doesn’t look like a native window program it doesn’t work

⏹️ ▶️ John the u is inscrutable even like the the ui text is not localized

⏹️ ▶️ John well like just you can’t even read it and understand what they’re trying to say oh that would be a good upgrade but

⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like every camera company either is so far outside the room where they care about consumer

⏹️ ▶️ John electronics or is like a mortal enemy of apple and vice versa why would why

⏹️ ▶️ John would they even talk to each other about this because you know as as apple as first stated

⏹️ ▶️ John apple sometimes thinks of his self is being you know having one of the best cameras in the world right or being

⏹️ ▶️ John the best camera company in the world why would they help out another camera company i know they don’t it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John seem like there’s any overlap between them but it’s like apple’s just off doing its own thing and you know

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll like they’ll support importing from you know if you plug in your sony camera

⏹️ ▶️ John to your mac and launch apple photos the apple photos program will import into it but trying

⏹️ ▶️ John to make that relationship tighter just doesn’t seem like a thing that apple or the camper companies

⏹️ ▶️ John interested in at this point

Aeron chair follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had some feedback from alexander who writes the aeron chair was updated in twenty seventeen and one major

⏹️ ▶️ Casey change is that the foam bars removed from the front the dot com bubble era or era

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eon classic chair which is still sold used or even new are different from what’s currently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey manufactured and sold by herman miller is eron and one of you guys found a link that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we will put in the show notes to discuss the differences

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i had no idea when when john was was lamenting the the bar that goes across

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your leg on an arron chair and i was saying oh it doesn’t bother me at all it turns out like mine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i bought a few years ago is the new version and it doesn’t have one of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bars anymore like it still has the rim at the very bottom where the fabric goes you know where the mesh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fabric goes into that is the frame of the chair but apparently but the previous version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iron had like kind of like an extra bar that went across kind of behind your knees they’re like almost right before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edge of the chair and the new one does not have that bar so it turns out that if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you like john have had that bar digging into your legs the new ones might not do that for you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they are actually different

⏹️ ▶️ John sit sit in it to find out because that the thing that you’re describing the the old one has a pad

⏹️ ▶️ John there because they apparently discovered and knew that the stupid bar was going to dig into

⏹️ ▶️ John so they put a pad there to try to help and it didn’t help because like in the end the bar is still there

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s the pad and is also where the mesh goes into the pad or whatever the new one the way the new one solves the

⏹️ ▶️ John problem is it doesn’t need the pad because the chair is tilted down more and the transition from the mash

⏹️ ▶️ John into the bar is smoother and so both of those things and it looks like the actual room is a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit skinnier too so both those things combined to make the bar less prominent that said the the bar that

⏹️ ▶️ John was digging to me still exists it wasn’t it wasn’t the pad that was digging in it was the actual metal frame of the chair so

⏹️ ▶️ John always sit down and try it out but it seems like like it seems like even in the first version they recognized this design

⏹️ ▶️ John problem and tried to mitigate it with the pad and it didn’t work out in the second version they said if we just you know sort of bend

⏹️ ▶️ John the lip of the chair down more it’ll be less diggy i’ve never said more than the new ones so maybe it would solve

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe it would solve the problem completely for me but it is good that they have revised this

⏹️ ▶️ John and yet there’s a good youtube video if you want to see more

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco more than

⏹️ ▶️ John you ever wanted to know about the minute differences between the old and the new chair the new one if not all pluses there are

⏹️ ▶️ John some things that might be considered a down grand but overall looks like a better design

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Casey got a family

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then i have a little bit of follow up for everyone as of some time between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last recording i am now the member of a two person family and i have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple one or whatever it’s called so everyone leave me alone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s finally happens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of family sharing are you the organizer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes a family sharing i am the organizer i’ve given aaron whatever blessing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i can to make her if not the organizer then the equivalent or as close as it can be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s kind of irrelevant at the moment because it’s just too adult apple ids

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it right now i have started the ingest process into photos and it’s rate we’re going maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will be done before i die um so that’s good i have seventy three thousand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey six hundred nine photos four thousand eight hundred ninety nine videos i started this process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yesterday maybe the day before the photos process and i have fifty four thousand three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hundred sixty one items remaining and let me remind you i have a gigabit connection to the internet

⏹️ ▶️ John which is not using fully i’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey nephew well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know i don’t know for sure but actually i do know for sure no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John activity

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor look at your network i o it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t need to go to activity monitor because it’s sitting right on my menu bar it’s right there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well takes a sect

⏹️ ▶️ John you which you can read in sixteen point tall you can read like the y access values i’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s it’s it’s literally says two point eight five m b slash as that’s what it says

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not gigabit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no no it is not it’s it’s i don’t know man

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it’s going slow on my imac pro which i don’t love her as i put a screenshot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m not going to bother putting it in the show notes but i put a screenshot somewhere in the relay slack

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what does it read okay zero photo scanned photos will continue scan scanning your remaining two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thousand five hundred and sixteen photos when you’re not using the app and when your mac is connected to power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it said that on my mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John and don’t worry about the scanning part though like you just care about the import of this part like the scanning it’s going to take you a while

⏹️ ▶️ John for it to like go through all the pictures and try to identify faces and all that other stuff but like i don’t know why honestly

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t know why it even bothers to even try doing that before it’s actually imported all your

⏹️ ▶️ John photos but the mysteries of like apple’s import is very much like its eye cloud thing like

⏹️ ▶️ John if it does what you want then fine but if it doesn’t you have no knobs you have no dials

⏹️ ▶️ John you have no way to say could you a do it now instead of waiting until later or be

⏹️ ▶️ John do it faster someone actually asked like this question they were like oh i’m a phone i it never wants to load the pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John this is actually in the context of like using the sd card thing or whatever how do i get it to take the phones

⏹️ ▶️ John take the photos off of my phone and put them into a cloud and it does the phone does try to helpfully

⏹️ ▶️ John explain to you if you go to the photo ap and scroll to the bottom it will say i stopped uploading your pictures to

⏹️ ▶️ John icloud ah because your battery is low and i’ll resume again when you plug in and that’s that’s the answer i gave

⏹️ ▶️ John them as like if you wanted to if you want to make it start uploading now go and plug it in you can

⏹️ ▶️ John also use like tap that text that doesn’t look like a button to tell it to do it now but very often

⏹️ ▶️ John like in this case what if you wanted to tell it hey don’t analyze faces until later what if you wanted to tell it please

⏹️ ▶️ John use my gigabit connection to upload now like use all my cars do all the things like this is literally the only thing i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for it instead it’s like this blanket policy of like let’s not perturb your computer too much which is a reasonable default

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want it to cripple your computer doing you know face analysis or whatever or saturate your network

⏹️ ▶️ John connection when you’re trying to do a podcast those are all fine to faults apple but we

⏹️ ▶️ John do it would be nice to have a way like i just think about the button and smile all the time the sink

⏹️ ▶️ John button and the mac version of messages wow whoever added that they need to like get an award

⏹️ ▶️ John like a on a wall an apple like somehow someone got a button and they would say

⏹️ ▶️ John hey i know there are messages that aren’t appear on my mac instead of me just sitting here waiting praying

⏹️ ▶️ John hoping wondering will they ever sing when is it going to happen i don’t know there’s no progress indicator i could be

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting here for hours days years maybe you could never happen to have to sign out of my club and oh i just click the sink

⏹️ ▶️ John button and then it sinks the messages right when i click the button cause that’s what i’m waiting for right now

⏹️ ▶️ John oh god apple please please add up the photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes so so it’s uploading excessively slowly and then on my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey macbook pro and maybe maybe this is user user error so if it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is then it’s my bed but what i did was on the imac i am going to have you know an entire

⏹️ ▶️ Casey duplicate of my photo library because i am not quite as um obsessive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as john with my backups but when it comes to photos i’m pretty close so why what’s it going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to hurt to have yet another duplicated my photo library and this time on the imac so i have it you know not optimizing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey et cetera et cetera and i want all the source files on there on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey laptop i would prefer to not take up the entire ssd and so what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i did was i made an apfs volume i think that’s the right vernacular i’m sorry john i might have gotten that wrong

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but basically i made a thing that’s like ten gigs or something like that and i said okay photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make your thing there become the system photo library and go ahead and start plugging away

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was yesterday right now when i click on the library tab in or the library

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing and the sidebar and photos all i see is updating

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah i would i would say two things one ten gig may be a little bit small because the optimized

⏹️ ▶️ John storage just means it’s not going to have your originals but it’s not i don’t think it’s smart enough not to try

⏹️ ▶️ John to at least bring thumbnails for everything and ten gigs may not be enough for even all your thumbnails and i have no idea

⏹️ ▶️ John what photos will do in that case so consider a larger size and the second thing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco i would say i go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like fifty on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and the

⏹️ ▶️ John second thing i would say is what you’re doing fine don’t do that on your

⏹️ ▶️ John macbook until you’re done doing the thing on your imac because like why could

⏹️ ▶️ John confuse it right it’s to think of it a two step process step one all photos on imac step two

⏹️ ▶️ John little miniature library on the mac i don’t try to do them simultaneously there’s no there’s no advantage and as you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John noted it’s not like it’s really going to do it simultaneously anyway it’s just going to make you wait and photos is

⏹️ ▶️ John so bad like no progress bars no nothing just a giant white window with some text that says presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m doing something you haven’t really had no idea i have no way to check even activity monitor will make

⏹️ ▶️ John it look like your machine is mostly idle but it doesn’t mean i’m not doing anything as far as you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i hear you i agree with you i understand what you’re saying but can we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just concede or admit to each other if not everyone else that this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this kind of sucks like why are we okay with this like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well with

⏹️ ▶️ John it for two reasons one this is not the common case people don’t come in like day zero i have seventy thousand photos

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you take if you start with an empty library and take photos like a normal person the system works way better

⏹️ ▶️ John right and second in the grand scheme of things no this isn’t great but the most important thing is does it

⏹️ ▶️ John safely contain all my photos and are they actually available everywhere and as

⏹️ ▶️ John far as we’ve all been able to deal with our own personal experiences and what we’ve heard from people despite the extremely

⏹️ ▶️ John frustrating slowness of all this it does eventually converge on correctness which is which is a big thing like

⏹️ ▶️ John you know correctness first speed second right they don’t have the speed they don’t have the features but if they have

⏹️ ▶️ John correctness that’s enough to you know to build trust and loyalty over the years that

⏹️ ▶️ John you will eventually get your photos in and they will eventually show up on your phone and you will eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John get some subset of them on your back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i got it but if i heard an android person being like well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s working but super slowly and it’s working maybe on my other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey device and all by the way i have to return and do the exact

⏹️ ▶️ Casey same processing on all eighty thousand you know videos and photos on every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey single device which i know that used to be the case maybe that’s not the case anymore but it used to be that all the devices had to do all this turning

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and analyzing what not themselves like if i heard an android person saying this i would ask what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the hell was wrong with them and why they’re using the service like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in their defense casey andrew person would never say this because andrew people can never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get two devices to stay and sink between what would it be like their phone and windows pcs or what like what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s it going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i think you’re being a little unfair to google sink you know prowess but i do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey take your point that it’s not exactly going to be ipads and maybe not windows machines other than like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using google photos on the web but nevertheless i don’t i just i i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would i was at the point that i would do this just to shut everyone i mean just to make everyone happy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i’m really not overwhelmed with this process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you

⏹️ ▶️ John haven’t even imparted the pictures yet you got you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey got to get

⏹️ ▶️ John you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey got damn long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John can you have a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of photos it’s a large volume just be patient let them be imported once they’re imported then you can enjoy

⏹️ ▶️ John the excitement of editing a photo and cropping and knowing you’re not destroying the original then then that’s for

⏹️ ▶️ John the magic capital

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that that doesn’t bother me because this will always in my brain this is always going to be a secondary

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or tertiary library

⏹️ ▶️ John will bring you around you step on is getting them into the library step two is letting you think of the library as the place where

⏹️ ▶️ John you can safely edit photos without straying your originals which

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is true look

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why a library is dumber than folder fulfil

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i am very much looking forward to when cas tries to edit his photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the mac version of photos and discovers the throw the fork away flow that it has

⏹️ ▶️ John although there’s a there’s a bug in photos for the mac it’s been

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a great ten

⏹️ ▶️ John more reasons to use it i think for two releases now like when you go into crop mode

⏹️ ▶️ John like it doesn’t like when you go into crop you know you can just see and your and you’re cropping

⏹️ ▶️ John all right it it like scroll it doesn’t scroll so you can see the entire

⏹️ ▶️ John picture like the scrolling offset is wrong and the

⏹️ ▶️ John only way to fix it is to go into a different mode than go back to crop mode i don’t know how long a thing’s been there but it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so reproducible it’s like does does no one in apple ever go into crop mode and realize hey i can’t see

⏹️ ▶️ John my whole picture i just you know how many years is that going to be like that it’s not a bad bug

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just like a eye glitch of like some you know offset or some animation outrun some other thing or whatever but

⏹️ ▶️ John it just boggles my mind that i can be there for so long as every time i switch from a just back to crop to fix that i think

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s other like speaking of animation bugs in photos when you’re doing crop stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John and like actually dragging around the little crappy tool it you know re

⏹️ ▶️ John it re jiggers the view to whatever you crap you know cause you crop it real small it doesn’t want to leave it small or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John it eventually gets the right position but it does this intermediary step or i guess is really

⏹️ ▶️ John really wrong but like hundreds of pixels and then it snaps back again years it’s been there for years like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not it’s not a big deal it’s just like it’s like photos has like a personality it’s like it’s got a lot of eccentricities

⏹️ ▶️ John and quirks but it really bothers my mind that these these bugs are able to there

⏹️ ▶️ John to be there year after year and no one ever bothers trying to fix them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but case you know to answer your act your question about like why why is this thing actually good or why do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we use this or why do we tolerate this the answer is that as a li library

⏹️ ▶️ Marco management thing like as a library layer a sink platform a data store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it works really well for most people most of the time like i have had no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco major problems with iphone with ici foto library since it was introduced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which at this point was what ten years ago i mean it’s been a while and i’ve had no major problems with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it i’ve had no sink problems i’ve had no lost or missing photos from it everything does sink

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it works well and it works in reasonable amounts of time as a system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is very very good now the app for editing your photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the mac is really terrible that’s it i’m just being honest it’s terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know see see also throw the fork away like it is just a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco flow and it it delays you and again it’s like the the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco epitome of tons of different unnecessary modes and transitions and things moving around animating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like tons of that but i hardly ever edit my photos and if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i do it often happens on the phone anyway like right after i take them and so i rarely edit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos in nontrivial ways on the mac what i do is shoot a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos and videos and want them to sink everywhere and want that to be easy and automatic and not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is to deal with imports and raw and stuff like that and that’s a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco common set of priorities and so if that fits your common set of priorities then it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great platform and the reality is for most people that’s what they really need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and yet i do wish the mac app was a better photo editor for when i do want to do non travelers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not very good but the rest of it the most important parts of it to me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are that data store and sink layer and and just having it be automatic and everything appears everywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i don’t have to think about it or do anything or import anything ever and it’s great at that so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s why we tolerate the crappy mac ap and i think you will find a lot of value in that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the editor

⏹️ ▶️ John like yeah the u i a photos the app is bad and the editor you eye is bad but the actual editing

⏹️ ▶️ John features they’re not it’s not lightroom like don’t expect miracles but the individual features that do exist

⏹️ ▶️ John work pretty well like it’s this is the sort of it will hold your hand

⏹️ ▶️ John right it’s it knows that you probably don’t have the knowledge or skills to do use a fancy

⏹️ ▶️ John app like lightroom i certainly don’t write so they don’t give you controls that are that complicated yes the

⏹️ ▶️ John u i is bad but the individual controls for adjusting levels curves

⏹️ ▶️ John you know the exposure their little magic do what i mean their retouching tool

⏹️ ▶️ John all those things are like the actual modifications that makes your image

⏹️ ▶️ John are well tuned to people who might want to make edits but don’t want to be like a photo editing

⏹️ ▶️ John expert i only ever use photos to added my photos i hate the you are but i like

⏹️ ▶️ John the results that i get because the edits i’m making are fairly simple i’m rotating i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John cropping i’m adjusting levels and exposure and you know maybe one or two other

⏹️ ▶️ John little tweaks there and that will take you so far you know like obviously again if you

⏹️ ▶️ John want to edit as you want to do light room with way more sophisticated changes you want to apply the same adjustments to fifteen things

⏹️ ▶️ John you want to do custom barrel distortion like yet there’s reason those other programs exist and you can you know go edit

⏹️ ▶️ John your photo in them and bring back your edit and do all that stuff if you want but the actual like for someone

⏹️ ▶️ John like you who doesn’t seem like they don’t edit their photos that much now try try the

⏹️ ▶️ John the horrendously implemented in you eye tools because the results they give you on your photo though

⏹️ ▶️ John and the good thing is if you don’t like them you can always hit the little button that says reset to original and it’s always there and

⏹️ ▶️ John that gives you the freedom to screw with them and not feel like i don’t like the set of what have i done oh no i did a bad crop

⏹️ ▶️ John the original is always there it’s it’s freeing it’s liberating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s all well and good but well first of all i don’t ever really edit my photos to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be completely honest with you the most i’ll ever do is white balance i if i take stuff inside and generally if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m taking photos inside i’m not using my big camera anyway i’m using my iphone because it’s usually going to come

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that way i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t typically white balance anymore at all but when i was doing editing i don’t have the technical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chops to do it to be honest with you like i wish i understood in the same way that either of you guys do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a how to how to pull colors in and out and contrast up and down so on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you don’t need

⏹️ ▶️ John to know that for photos that’s what i’m saying like for white bounce is like a single button that says please fix the white bounce for

⏹️ ▶️ John me there are more state controls even in photos but if you just click the auto white bounce button

⏹️ ▶️ John you done right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right but okay so now that i’ve done that now i need to take that jpeg

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and pull it back out of photos actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John put

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in the one true

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John data or which is a solo you you really don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i i can’t i cannot i cannot trust anyone with these files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i just can’t do it i can’t bring myself to do

⏹️ ▶️ John it i mean i mean i understand the lack of trust right but like what market was getting at is that like no system is perfect

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually one of us is going to be screwed by apple photos right but a decade’s a pretty good run in the grand

⏹️ ▶️ John scheme of things like think of all the other photo services that have come and gone that we haven’t been able to trust in this apple

⏹️ ▶️ John one as if you know we’re all so heavily in the apple eagle system it’s well integrated everywhere

⏹️ ▶️ John and has been reliable for us now not for everybody it’s not perfect and like i said

⏹️ ▶️ John if we just keep going long enough eventually one of us is going to get screwed in some way that’s why we have a lot of backups but

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t think you can argue with like i think the reputation of apple photos in terms of reliability is pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John good there will always be people with horror stories about how it corrupted the whole library and destroyed everything but

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not baying this thing like a hundred and forty thousand photos in the thing it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John if it destroys all my photo library after the time i’ve used it now i’d be like fair enough

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what other

⏹️ ▶️ John program have been able to use for that many years with no data loss treating at this cross photo

⏹️ ▶️ John and photos and all this like like it’s like like marco said the apps come and go like i photo

⏹️ ▶️ John changed a lot when it was i a photo and the photos came and it’s worse

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s like it’s you know it’s like the program it’s not like oh i don’t like the program therefore i don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John that like it’s a platform and there are programs on top of one of the programs on top of it is the iphone versio which is getting better

⏹️ ▶️ John this year right and fifteen actually showing you the metadata i don’t have to use the party programs to get that info

⏹️ ▶️ John and on the ipad right it’s the platform and the apps built on top of it aren’t that great

⏹️ ▶️ John but like the fact that the platform has been solid for us like that is that is the big selling point

⏹️ ▶️ John that is integrated everywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in case he also like at the end of the day like if you have the photo zap on a mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it with it downloading your entire library on that mac these are all just files in the file

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system like you can they will be part of your time machine backup they will be part of any other disk backups that you have that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen to include the big like you know photo library package because the package is just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a folder really you know it’s it’s a mac package format so you can just dive in there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can find all those files now the the directory paths and file names will be garbage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the files are all there and so if you want to you can act actually automate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that process you can make a shell script or you can make a hazel thing or whatever you want to do you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can use use the new shortcut feature you can you can automate having something go in there and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pull out everything you’ve added to it and automatically give you know give them the right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco names and paths and put them in your synology like that that can actually be totally compatible with this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new system because at the end of the day these are just files in a weird place on your hard drive

⏹️ ▶️ John for the masters yes benar is at it that’s what he’s interested in um like that if he does make an edit he

⏹️ ▶️ John wants that to be baked into his canonical shoebox because he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it has very bad ideas about how to archive data but yeah like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well the edits are there too oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slow down slow down okay if you’re going to be a jerk about it let’s pull on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that so i think i never you should never

⏹️ ▶️ John save the edits is what i’m saying you should never save the edits like or rather you should if you save the edits you have to save the

⏹️ ▶️ John original to it boggles my mind that you crop a photo and then have the cropped version replaced the original

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s not good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i can make a strong argument either way but i hear what you’re saying

⏹️ ▶️ John like you should keep both is what i’m saying like you do want the crop because that was work that you put into it but also

⏹️ ▶️ John you want the original in case you flubbed the crop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i guess but i i’d like to think i’d be pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure that that is the crop i want before i deleted the

⏹️ ▶️ John original never i go back and re edit photos from like two thousand and five frequently

⏹️ ▶️ John cause i look at them i’m a better photo editor not that i’m a good photo eater but i’m better at using the the

⏹️ ▶️ John stupid photo zap and i will go back and look at them like there was years when i wasn’t even white balancing

⏹️ ▶️ John anything i have like you know i have cannon five d pictures from like the five d that was like

⏹️ ▶️ John quote borrowed from m i t for a short period of time and they’re all super yellow cause they were taken indoors

⏹️ ▶️ John and he’d never white balance then and like oh i can just go and fix that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s all my pictures for like a five year span they’re all yellow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t i like as much as i’m you know i apologize i really don’t like to be the complainer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that’s what i’ve been doing today the role of complainer will be played by kc list

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and i’m not actually really trying to complain like most of this is tongue in cheek

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i just want to point out that this onboarding experience has not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been delightful and

⏹️ ▶️ John what is your punishment for onboarding after you have seventy thousand for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most

⏹️ ▶️ John of us on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco borders

⏹️ ▶️ John mean it is bad this is a bad experience but if you were to bring this to apple they would say okay

⏹️ ▶️ John well do you know how many people are in this position like very few um and so i would imagine they are not going to optimize

⏹️ ▶️ John word that said they should totally have a mode that says you know a button that says please do the thing now because that’s literally all i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for it i know you’re trying to be nice to my computer but don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well that’s the thing is it depends what you mean by do the thing like if if there was a way for me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to tell photos slurp up all available bandwidth just go frickin nuts then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i would absolutely hit that button similarly like overnight i would hit the okay now that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things are uploaded please churn and destroy my poor site figuring out for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first of fifteen times who’s where and what’s what and so on and so forth like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i am kind of dreading my devices doing that scanning because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again i feel like maybe they said something about this being passed around services so maybe this this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is all

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah i think that it is like a last in person that you already see there was something about a sharing face

⏹️ ▶️ John data

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey okay yeah yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but maybe not all classification shared around whatever the case may be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s right yeah i i believe where where we left off was that anything that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you manually classified and entered was since but anything that is automatically detected

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the algorithms is not since

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think that’s right now that you say that

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah although although i would say that the face recognition thing it’s not i mean you’re going to say that it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to look like it’s going to take a long time for your seventy thousand photos but what it does is it uses your manual selections

⏹️ ▶️ John to find similar right and i do this frequently of like oh i load new pictures and i’m going to manually

⏹️ ▶️ John select the bunch and then what you’ll see it do is say okay based on what you selected i found

⏹️ ▶️ John five thousand additional photos i mean you’re going to see numbers like that because that’s how many you have on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey category right

⏹️ ▶️ John but it says that like not like after ten minutes it’s like after you’re done confirming

⏹️ ▶️ John it says one two three up fifty more photos found right like it’s pretty fast at

⏹️ ▶️ John taking what you know it the thing what i’m saying is singing in the manual stuff sounds like that’s nothing cause i manually

⏹️ ▶️ John confirm ten photos that ten photos will quickly multiply into many many were actually pretty fast at finding

⏹️ ▶️ John the faces and the the hard part and the work is actually the manual part the automated part it’s fast

⏹️ ▶️ John now the part i don’t know about is the part that knows this is a chair this is a dog you know the classification i

⏹️ ▶️ John think that might be super slow but honestly that i use that feature all

⏹️ ▶️ John the time hopefully and it’s just like when you’ll see when you use it in the stupid photos you like there’s an auto

⏹️ ▶️ John complete and if you don’t see your thing auto completed don’t bother cause if you’re you’re trying

⏹️ ▶️ John to look for like b and it doesn’t auto complete to be like a bumble bee or whatever don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco bother

⏹️ ▶️ John like you might as well just try insect because you have to pick from one the article places it only knows about a finite number of things

⏹️ ▶️ John right google is you know google search obviously you can type any nonsense in there and do image search and it will do

⏹️ ▶️ John its best apple photos is not like that so that may take a while but like

⏹️ ▶️ John when that’s going because it runs in the background or whatever like

⏹️ ▶️ John if you ever want to search your photos like that you probably need a different tool that’s it i haven’t seen the iowa

⏹️ ▶️ John fifteen thing with the text thing that might actually help a lot so we’ll say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no a couple of other quick notes first of all some very belated follow up from a few weeks ago

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you and i or maybe it was all three of us were discussing why bother geotagging photos and i meant

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to bring this up during the show and i either didn’t get a word in edgewise or knowing me probably forgot but one of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasons i loved attacking my photos and i am not starting this is i’m really being serious one of the reasons i love you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey attacking my photos is because if you think about my preposterous or not but whatever it is it’s mine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know there are many like it this one is mine my photo management set up is that if i know when a picture

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was taken it takes me exceedingly little time to find the actual source

⏹️ ▶️ Casey file on the enology now maybe that’s not something that you john you marco or you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey listen or care about but it’s something that happens to me relatively often however if i wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if i know oh yeah there was that one time we took that picture at cape charles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i don’t know what year it was but i remember being really really pretty if i geotag my photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if i have something like google photos or soon apple photos i can drill into cape

⏹️ ▶️ Casey charles and find that picture similarly like for you john oh i remember there was that picture

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i took of the kids on long island but i don’t know if that was last year the year before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the year before that like that is the moment at which geotagging photos becomes extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey useful like leaving aside the fact that i just kind of like having that meditator there anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being able to just say oh where was that it was long island but what year was that then you can go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dig deep into exactly where that was taken and find this photo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey extremely quickly now the problem with this is that it requires like google photos or an apple photos or what have you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because this is not something that i know of that you can do on the file system particularly easily but if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have something like apple or google what have you then it is a really convenient way to find photos and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have had this happen many many many many times maybe that’s because i’ve a crummy memory which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i absolutely do maybe you’re better at knowing exactly what year or whatever photo was taken but i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am not and that that is part of the reason why i go absolutely bananas in trying to make sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that every photograph that’s ingested into whatever system has been geotech

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not against you ten i would love it it’s just that i have my limits dealing with this crappy software like

⏹️ ▶️ John the camera makers right and so i just deal with it but you know for your specific example it will not shock you to

⏹️ ▶️ John know that all my long island pictures are labeled with the long island label which is the thing that keyword

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that’s a fair point that

⏹️ ▶️ John in photos and i also have smart folders in a sidebar i have a long island folder and under that i have smart folders

⏹️ ▶️ John for long island year and long island year favourites and there both smart folders they say keyword

⏹️ ▶️ John is long island the years two thousand four keywords long island years two thousand four and his favorite yeah that’s that’s totally

⏹️ ▶️ John fair so i can just turn down those folders and click on them and slice them and yet like and not all of

⏹️ ▶️ John them are geotag some of them are some of the iphone ones and again i think geotag is working

⏹️ ▶️ John with this byzantine bluetooth pared flow with my new thing but i’ll see if they’re not like

⏹️ ▶️ John i am pretty good about tag stuff like that’s the thing about photos you know back in the day when they had star ratings

⏹️ ▶️ John i had everything star rated now they just have faves but i was able to import all my star ratings as keywords and now things that were

⏹️ ▶️ John previously two stars have two stars keyword on them arbitrary you know attaching arbitrary tags on

⏹️ ▶️ John things is surprisingly flexible and yet it does support the geo tagging and all the other you

⏹️ ▶️ John know me i if metadata about the lens and the camera i used the camera search all the time to you know

⏹️ ▶️ John to say i don’t remember where i took this but i think it was with this camera i could just show me all the cannon five

⏹️ ▶️ John d pictures right then narrow that down by year it’s nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh one thing i’ve noticed by the way about geotag before i move on from that is um so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’ve been occasionally viewing those like memories videos that the photos app algorithmically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes for you which by the way are pretty good i was surprised i don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if this is a fifteen beta thing or what but it’s pretty good i was very impressed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but one thing i noticed in one of them was that was it was about a like a location based trip that i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had taken a few years back and it included in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco footage used for that trip video that i shot on the drone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the drone is not geotagging as far as i know no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco is now it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay because i was thinking like was it smart enough to just infer the location because i imported

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it like on the same day as all these other pictures but no i guess if i actually see attacking which i suppose

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can because it has g p s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so i’m ninety eight percent sure that it is i’m almost certain that my mini

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two does indeed put you cause you can put that metadata in an empty four as well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so i’m almost certain that my drone does and i have i have the cheapest drone that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that t j i makes well cheapest of the new drones at ji makes and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so i’m pretty sure that yours which was not the cheapest that they make should geotagged

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as well um so yeah that that that’s just an aside a bit bit of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow up that i meant to bring up and then finally one other thing that i think is quite hilarious

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i am it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re right they do at it it i pulled up some drones it why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the hell i was at anyway sorry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey in any case

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one thing that i do find quite hilarious and very frustrating but this is kind of sort of my fault

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i’m looking at on my eye phone i’m looking at the library tab and photos and i’m on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all photos and so i’m scrolled all the way to the bottom which is presumably the latest most recent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo right and at the top on the photos app in an ios it shows the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey date and the date i see and this is not a joke is december

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nineteenth the year five eight two eight nine six three because i guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what had happened was i’m looking at these last what nine ten photo videos actually and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were casing on cars videos of the alfaro the quadrifoglio or the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey julia quadrupole and i guess like something got hosed up with the act of data of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the years five eight two eight nine six three but these are like the most recent ten pictures on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my phone because it’s doing date descending or whatever and so this is the bottom of my photo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey library i’m going to have to go in and change the meditate on these bad boys so it is not from the year five eight to eight

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nine six three but i almost wonder if apple should maybe filter out anything that’s that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey far in the future but then again if that’s what’s the date in the photo what are they really supposed to do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why i am speaking of dates like that well first photo actually does have a fairly good date adjustment thing although i kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of wish one feature apple canada shouldn’t even tell them because they should just do family

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco sharing but

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway i would

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco love it

⏹️ ▶️ John i would love it if their adjusted feature had a thing where you could sort of blank

⏹️ ▶️ John out fields right cause i’ve been my relatives are scanning like old black and white photos of

⏹️ ▶️ John like my grandparents and great grandparents and stuff right and usually you only know the year and

⏹️ ▶️ John but you have to put in everything in the date field right so i have to come up with this convention of like if i only know

⏹️ ▶️ John the year it’s january first at zero zero zero zero zero but that’s a valid date and it’s not i wish

⏹️ ▶️ John i could say look for this camera you know the for this photo i know the year in the month this one in the year to sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John say the other ones who don’t care or i don’t know yet or whatever but yet the adjusted future is handy

⏹️ ▶️ John and i was just looking through my photos when you were saying that i have a cool picture of a mate competition i don’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John know if that’s a thing but that’s what the badge says on the back of this thing opposed another channel later

⏹️ ▶️ Casey please do ah goodness so yeah all in all i am excited about apple one i’m excited to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the two terabytes although i’m hypothetically going to be using a little over one terabyte for photos alone very very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey soon i’m excited about the terabytes i’m excited well i feel like i’m excited to have apple music

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even though i don’t know why because i do love spotify so much the right the right answer is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to just divorce myself from spotify but gosh i love those discover

⏹️ ▶️ John now if you think the photo app is bad try using the music app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it just it pains me deeply to be doubled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John to try

⏹️ ▶️ John i dare you to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the music app spotify really sucks on the mac though i haven’t used their terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you but i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John sure casey is used to it and has the dates he wants and i’m assuming it has to be less buggy than music the on the back

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less buggy maybe but just clunkier and crappie like it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey clunky and crappy it is not buggy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and yeah granted like you know the music app on mac is not great for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for lots of reasons but it is at the end of the day it’s still like you know good old reliable itunes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mostly under there and it mostly works now that being said the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like apple music as a service parts of it are pretty rough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but if you’re mostly using it to play your existing library as i am it’s it’s great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and spotify is fairly clunky at that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i would agree with that it is pretty clunky at the library that you brought to spotify it’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great with everything else but for a library that you brought to spotify it’s not great and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m excited for you know for for apple music you know to try it out and see what i think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m excited that i don’t have to worry about paying for apple net will not worry about it but like if i see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that’s paywall on apple news plus hypothetical shouldn’t pay walt anymore which is great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that that’s like like the best thing about this is that you no longer have to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to like decide piecemeal which apple services you want to pay for or not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pay for you kind of get everything and that’s it you can then you can try everything and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see like what you actually like

⏹️ ▶️ John you can finally play sinar wild hearts without worrying about whether you want a paper it or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not i bought that for the switch like a month or two ago and it is i didn’t finish it cause i only had a few minutes to play but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is very very good

⏹️ ▶️ John it does take a long thin it’s like forty five minutes or so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i now i just haven’t had the chance and then there was something else i wanted to say but regardless

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m ex oh fitness plus that’s what it was i have actually really been liking fitness plus a lot i’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been using it quite regularly it’s not the only exercise i do but it’s the majority of the exercise i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do and i have been really really enjoying it it’s got its own problems for sure but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the whole especially for something that’s really pretty much brand new i have been extremely impressed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with fitness plus and have really really been liking it and now like it’s not a big deal but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now because we’re on a family and and because aaron gets all these things too if we do workouts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey together which we aren’t doing these last couple of weeks but we were doing for like a month or two straight we were doing a lot of fitness

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus stuff together and we kind of ebb and flow in and out of you know working out together working out separately

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but now we can show her watch on the screen because it used to be the king every time because i was the only one paying for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fitness plan so it’ll be nice to show her watch on the screen i mean i would love for apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to consider that maybe you would want two at once which would be amazing so see also apple people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have families and we would love to share our photos with our families but anyway i am i am excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about having all these things i am honestly as much as i start i am excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about having photos and assuming i can get it all squared away and it all ingests

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and scans and does all that gobbledygook i am looking forward to having it i am looking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forward to making it easier to access my photos from you know fifteen years ago et cetera et cetera

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i am i am i’m glad i’m doing this even though the onboarding experience is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rougher than i would like it to be

⏹️ ▶️ John you should try some some smart folders it’s probably like the first thing you should do like cause you don’t have to do anything for

⏹️ ▶️ John them like you can rely on the media like one example of a smart folder speaking of your wacky dates is i have

⏹️ ▶️ John smart folders that are like that say that these are not the children that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John supposed to be so basically says if person identified is my daughter but

⏹️ ▶️ John the date is before my daughter was born put that into a smart folder and then i can go in there and

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially select all and say no that’s not her she wasn’t born yet or see if the dates

⏹️ ▶️ John are wrong if it is her right those sort of like you know you’re letting the automated system do its best to guess

⏹️ ▶️ John but when it gets it wrong there’s certain certain things you can do to sort of rule them out right um

⏹️ ▶️ John and yeah that’s partially what like you know my library is filled with so much medicine i have tags for all my kids right

⏹️ ▶️ John because they didn’t have face recognition for most of my life of using this app but when they added face recognition

⏹️ ▶️ John i didn’t ditch the tags i just use apple space recognition to make it easier for me to apply the tags

⏹️ ▶️ John right so like even if i lose all my face data all i’m viewing it is like as a bootstrap mechanism so i

⏹️ ▶️ John can properly tag everything and so i have all sorts of things that say the person identified was your daughter but it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John tagged as your daughter or it’s tagged you know and then i can just sort of reconcile those and those smart folders is just every once

⏹️ ▶️ John in a while i go into them is like a screen or two full of things and i you know correct the things or whatever and what i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John left with is essentially hand rolled meditated that identifies my children meanwhile

⏹️ ▶️ John it continues mightily in the background to try to identify my kids and it does a pretty good job but i’m still glad

⏹️ ▶️ John to have my tank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks to our sponsors this week square space mac weld in and made in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and thanks to our members to support us directly you can join at eighty p that and slash join

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks everybody we will talk to you next week

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John now the show is over they didn’t even mean to begin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it was accidental it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John john didn’t do any research marco and casey wouldn’t let him because

⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental but you can find

⏹️ ▶️ John the show notes at at p dot fm and if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John into twitter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them c a s e y l

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i assess that’s k c s m a r c a r m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ant marco men s i r a c

⏹️ ▶️ John syracuse is accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John one

#askaftershow: Kid Watch status

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so let’s do i really wanted to hear your answer to one of the s t ps that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had for this week and so we’re going to do that is kind of like a bonus after i don’t know as a special special

⏹️ ▶️ Casey treat after show andrew blomquist writes does adam still wear his apple watch about a year in i’m considering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting one for my kid but i’m concerned about what happens after the novelty wears off insert syracuse disclaimer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about not all kids being the same here my mileage may vary etcetera etcetera on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i love that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i absolutely love standard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dimension that’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey true so what is i don’t know why i’m so interested in this but i really am so what is adam’s story

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with his apple watch is he still wearing it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so listeners might recall that last fall when apple released the apple watch as he and more importantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple watch family set up which allows somebody without their own like a kid or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe elderly relative without their own iphone to have an apple watch that is paired to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your phone and then you get to have certain control over it and everything um when that all happened

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we got one for our son he is at the time eight and now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nine and the context in which we were getting it was you know he has a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco degree of freedom around our little neighborhood here and so we wanted to be wanted him to be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have some kind of cellular device so that he could both contact us if he needed to contact him if we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco needed to and we could see where he was and for an eight year old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash nine year old a phone is a bit of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a clunky choice for multiple reasons um you know we didn’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco him to have to have a phone if he didn’t need one for just size and complexity reasons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ate felt a little bit young to have his own phone i know everyone stands on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are different so i’m not going to judge that now but it just for us that felt a little bit young but the apple watch seemed like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a reasonable choice because it is inherently limited in what it can do so it couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be that much of a distraction for him when doing other things it couldn’t provide much like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anti social risk the way phones can it couldn’t be much of a problem at school in case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he wore to school which was helped also by by their their school

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time future and so it ended up being pretty good um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he does still wear it it still works great the novelty has mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worn off but in a way that’s a good thing because the novelty in the first few

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weeks of using it was mostly like it was a way he could play some really simple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crappy games because there are games for the apple watch they are not good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re they’re actually like almost comically bad but they do exist there are a couple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are you know reasonably impressive in certain things that they do but for the most part is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a compelling thing to do so the novelty wore off fairly quickly in a few weeks maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then it just became utility for us he has cellular on it and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like ten or fifteen bucks a month on our plans so it’s it’s not much extra cost not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a phone would be and we’re able to text him and he can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he texts back from his watch like from the playground if if we need to tell him like hey you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come home for dinner or whatever like you know we can do that and he’s able to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be communicated with or communicate you know taking the initiative to us we can do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audio facetime calls to it just fine the you know fine my with you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our fine family location sharing thing works just fine there are a couple of exceptions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but for the most part it has worked great and we’re actually very happy we did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it you know he’s he’s able to have like a regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kid lifestyle and we don’t have to worry too much about like what if he gets it wet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if he drops it what if he you know leaves it somewhere like all those worries

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you’d have with a phone that you don’t have to have with the watch or at least that are greatly reduced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the watch like yet it is possible to break an apple watch but it’s a lot harder

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than it is to break a phone you don’t have to worry about again like water in it like now it’s the summer time sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he goes swimming with his with his day camp that he’s in and it’s fine he we don’t have to tell him like dont

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t bring your phone like don’t leave your phone in your pocket when you go in the water no it’s a watch just walk in the water it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter what you just leave it on please otherwise like that’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so that all is great now because the novelty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has mostly worn off and it is more utilitarian now we do have to often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remind him or ask him to wear it and he doesn’t often think about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco putting up cause you know it’s still an apple watch he still has to take it off and charge it every day and sometimes he’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco take it off like before you know getting into the shower or something and so it’ll be left somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if i don’t go around and try to find it at night and put it on the charger then the next morning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not charged so there is that little annoyance that just you know the reality of kids you know they’re not going to be as attentive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this kind of stuff as as we are and and so you know there is that minor annoyance of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the daily charging is sometimes missed by it being left somewhere in the house after it was taken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off in the evening but for the most part it’s been good now there have been a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of instances of unreliability in the i don’t know if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the software or the cellular or both i think it actually actually has been one of both um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple watches with cellular are not they don’t have as good of antennas as the phones do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so sometimes we just won’t be able to reach him and and the watch will just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not report his location and it just basically won’t have the connectivity that we really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want this is not common but it does happen every so often and it is kind of annoying like well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have this thing just in case we need it and sometimes it doesn’t work but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know sometimes phones don’t work either i mean it’s less often and sometimes the kids are are faking it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and blessing you when they say their phone didn’t work but you know the reality is this happens on the watch sometimes it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem like it’s not as reliable as the phone and there was even a case a few weeks ago where you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know we were messaging and planning hey come home for dinner whatever and he wasn’t responding he wasn’t responding we eventually had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to go look for him and you know we found him we picked him up brought it home and i and i was like let me see your watch like cause

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was insisting he wasn’t here the message and you know again like you put it through you know the kid b s filter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit like okay really was he really not getting the messages but i looked and certainly like sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough not only were the no notifications on his watch but i opened up the messages app on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch and they weren’t even getting in there like the my messages were just not there i rebooted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch and they all appeared so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey there is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is definitely like some unreliability that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really unfortunate obviously this would be a lot better if it was as reliable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the phone in those ways and it’s very clearly not but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all the advantages it has over the phone for this context for like you know i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was going to say a middle aged kid if that makes sense he’s not super young he’s not a teenager so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know for like a middle middle aged kid i think it’s a really good solution

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you know he’s not old enough to to reasonably want or need or have a phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would provide these other you know this at the same value in other ways but he’s old enough that he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can have independence out in you know in this part of the world that we this crazy part the world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we live in so he can be out there on his own and we can have the need to reach him or locate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco him or he can want to reach us and he can have a way to do that without having a phone and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so in that way it’s worked out great and we’re very happy with it and we’re going to we’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco continue with it

⏹️ ▶️ John the goodness is when he gets a phone you won’t have to remind him and take that with him every day

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yes he’ll be hopelessly addicted to social crap like we are

⏹️ ▶️ John the charging unfortunately may still be an issue depending on your kid