438: Some Amount of Futzing
08 Jul 2021Cases, cars, content-color coordination, Casey’s cloud considerations, camera conundrums, console chips, and climate-control conflicts.
Episode Description:
- Pre-show: Case-Liss Casey Liss
- Follow-up:
- HomeKit and Bonjour/zeroconf
- HSTS and Safari (via Jakob)
- Thoughts on Safari from Scott Sutton
- Safari Technology Preview (“Purple Safari”)
- Eye-tracking Memoji? (via Daniel Yount)
- John mousepad update
- Managing Digital Documents (via Jason Abreu)
- Casey’s Apple One Epiphany
#askatp:- What’s the desk chair update? (via Carlos Luis Portillo)
- How do we import photos taken on a “big” camera? (via Stephen Kim)
- Why wouldn’t Apple want to license the M1 to Nintendo? (via Zephyz Zhaar)
- Post-show: Marco is a monster who doesn’t like air conditioning
Sponsored by:
- Linode: Instantly deploy and manage an SSD server in the Linode Cloud. New accounts get a $100 credit.
- ExpressVPN: The fastest and most reliable VPN. Get an extra three months free with a 1-year package.
- Hover: Make a name for yourself with Hover. Get 10% off your first purchase.
Become a member for ad-free episodes and our early-release, unedited “bootleg” feed!
Chapters
- Cases, cars, and BBQ
- The Mini lifestyle
- Sponsor: Hover
- Smart-home follow-up
- HSTS Preload follow-up
- Safari bar color from content
- Weekly Safari-redesign flogging
- Memoji login screen
- Sponsor: ExpressVPN
- John’s mouse pad
- Family document management
- Casey’s epiphany
- Sponsor: Linode
- #askatp: Desk chairs
- #askatp: Camera ingest workflow
- #askatp: Nintendo + M1?
- Ending theme
- Air conditioning
Cases, cars, and BBQ
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Guys, I had a bad afternoon.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did you drop your phone again?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. Did I tell you though that I realized I had dropped, I think I said this on the show, I have dropped
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my 12 Pro only indoors ever. And I’ve dropped it in such a way that I noticed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I did shatter the back ever so slightly. Like if you don’t look at it, if you don’t look at it up close, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know. But I’ve decided unequivocally, this is the last time I will be caseless
⏹️ ▶️ Casey caseless. I just can’t do it. It’s just, I can’t do it. They’re too fragile. Apparently
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Funny that you mentioned that, actually. Uh-oh, uh-oh. No, it’s not too bad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’ve been going caseless this year, first time in a number of years. And the other day,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just dropped it. It was, I wish I had some good story, but I don’t, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I never drop my phone. It’s never been a thing. Well, the problem is,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost every year, I drop my phone once or twice. And normally, it’s in a case, and so I kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of get forgiven. I hope that was a freebie. And this year, AppleCare is my case, sure enough.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m just walking the dog, and I have my phone in my hand adjusting something,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and he pulls right at that moment. And normally it doesn’t happen, but it happened.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I dropped the phone from a height of three feet onto a concrete sidewalk. And it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine in the sense that neither glass pane has broken, but the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco edges are pretty scuffed up. And they’re rough when you rub your finger over them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s undesirable.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it’s, yeah, it’s fine. Like it’s not bad enough to invoke the AppleCare and, you know, get it replaced,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s just kind of a reminder like, oh, I guess that’s what cases are for. I wish
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t need them. And maybe I still don’t, if I can like have a phone for almost
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a year and only drop it once and only have a few scratches on the outside that result
⏹️ ▶️ John from that. Can you get some sandpaper or a metal file? You can take down those rough edges.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought about that, but because it, like I have the red finish. Like if I had just like regular silver aluminum,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like uncolored finish. Red
⏹️ ▶️ John magic marker and color it in.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, well, but.
⏹️ ▶️ John A touch up pen from a car, you know, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, and like, and anywhere that the finish gets scratched, the aluminum shows through. So like the red’s already gone from those sections,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I would hate to have to make my, the silver patches larger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are already there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yep. That’s not why my afternoon was bad, but yes, I agree. You know, and I love, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey love, love, love, love the look, and in many ways the feel of the 12 Pro. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I love the color. Like I liked the foresty green from last year, but this like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey deep blue, I freaking adore. I just absolutely adore it. But I have decided
⏹️ ▶️ Casey without question that this upcoming next phone for me, I must have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a case. And Erin, I didn’t get a case for her 12 Pro because they didn’t have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the light pink case that she’s used for years and years and years. They had other not as good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey colors. And she absolutely shattered her back within like a week. Um, like I did
⏹️ ▶️ Casey last year. And so the List family is no longer allowed to go caseless, but I digress.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The reason I’m sad is because I, I went to pick up my car from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Safe Light Repair, Safe Light Replace, because I had gotten dinged by a rock,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, weekend before last on my windshield and it was starting to spider, so I was getting it replaced.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the Safe Light Place happens to be sort of kind of downtown Richmond. And right around the corner
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from there is my favorite barbecue place in Richmond, a place called ZZQ, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is like nationally ranked, one of the best barbecue joints in the entire country, etc, etc. It’s a Texas-style
⏹️ ▶️ Casey brisket and other things. And from everything I’ve read from people who are born and bred Texas,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they say this is one of the only places you can get Texas, Texan brisket outside of Texas, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, well, we go. And remember that the List family is not currently
⏹️ ▶️ Casey eating indoors. We’re not, you know, we’re still being fairly paranoid on account of the kids.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And ZZQ has a really good back patio. And so the thought was, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the kids and Aaron would go to the back patio and I would run through the line, grab the food, and we would go to the back and eat in the back patio outside.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m pulling up to ZZQ, which is this very, very small parking lot, and I’m thinking to myself, oh gosh, this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is gonna be a mess. You know what, because Aaron had to drop me off so we could pick up my car, so we’re in two cars. I said, I send
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron a text using Siri, you take whatever spot you can find in the lot, I’ll go parallel park elsewhere.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I come up to the parking lot and it’s empty. I think, oh, this is fantastic. It was early even for the List family
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we, we eat early as it is, but it was like five o’clock, which even for us is early. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I pull into the parking lot and there’s like one or two other cars. I’m thinking, oh, this is magnificent. The back patio is going to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey empty. We’ll be able to waltz right through the line. This is great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we finally get up to the door after unloading the kids. Sold out. We’ll see you tomorrow.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you guys have barbecue places that will just sell out? It was devastating. I was so sad. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John thought you’re gonna say that it was closed down that it was no,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, that happened to mine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, wait. The one the one in Westchester,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the one that’s gone. Although
⏹️ ▶️ Marco II heard that’s really too bad. I mean, I mean, it didn’t it didn’t survive COVID at all. They didn’t even like as soon as COVID
⏹️ ▶️ Marco started, they were gone, but I heard that it’s being picked up by another barbecue place,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I haven’t been back to in town to see it yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, man. That’s a real bummer. I really wanted to. I mean, I don’t have any plans to come up near you again anytime soon, with respect.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I was assuming at some point I would be up in the Westchester area, and I was hoping that you could take
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me and we could go get some of your barbecue and see how it is.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, in all fairness, it’s probably better for my health not to have massive quantities
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of meat covered in wood carcinogens every week. It’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco best, ultimately, that I’m not having super easy access to it. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was a very good time that I kind of miss.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this. It makes me sad. But anyway, so if that’s the most of my problems, I’d say I’m doing all right. But it did make me sad that I couldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey get my delicious and hilariously expensive barbecue after picking up my car.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Interestingly, I couldn’t have them just do it in the driveway because I guess with these new fancy-schmancy cars
⏹️ ▶️ Casey these days, they need to do like recalibration of all the sensors
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that are behind the windshield. So I’m assuming that’s why they insisted that I bring it down to their location and they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey took it for like three hours and did their thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John want them to do it in the driveway. Come on.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I mean, why not? Why
⏹️ ▶️ John not get your car painted in a tent? Because it’s not a controlled environment. Okay. You
⏹️ ▶️ John want it to be indoors, first of all, so there’s not like pollen and dust and bugs and wind and rain
⏹️ ▶️ John and who knows what else. And yeah, you want it to be like someplace with controlled lighting on a
⏹️ ▶️ John level surface with technicians who are in a comfortable place, not just randomly gorilla in
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey always disliked that. Oh my word.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good to know. Yeah, see, but the advantage of John never buying cars ever and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey buying unremarkable cars when he does is that you don’t have radar cruise control, do you? You don’t have any of
⏹️ ▶️ John it. My car is remarkable, Casey, first of all. And second of all, no, I don’t have radar cruise control. But I’ve also,
⏹️ ▶️ John I guess I drive between the rocks. I haven’t lost a windshield that I can recall either.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Yeah. This is also my opportunity to remind you, those of us who live in places with snow, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John includes me, sometimes, those of us who live in places with snow,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey please clean off the roof of your car when it snows. Because once, going back to mom and dad’s when they lived in Connecticut,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was on the Jersey Turnpike, and some lazy turd in front of me, an Alexis
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sedan, didn’t clear all the snow and ice off of the roof of his car. And then a lot of it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hurtled into my windshield and absolutely shattered the windshield of the Subaru
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the point that I probably shouldn’t have continued to drive it. but I was so close to mom and dad’s at that point, I was like, screw it, I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just gonna get home. So please, if you live in a place with winter, don’t be a jerk, clear off
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the roof of your car. Please clear the roof of your car. I don’t care how tall your car is. If your car is that tall,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey either get a more reasonable car or get a ladder, but clear off the roof of your car for the love. Please,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco please do it for me.
⏹️ ▶️ John ladder. And this is a good defensive driving lesson. If you’re driving behind a car that has snow on the roof, change
⏹️ ▶️ John lanes. If you’re driving anywhere near a truck, get far out of the lane, away from it, in front of it, ideally,
⏹️ ▶️ John or several lanes to the side as you pass it. And if you have an iPhone, put it in a case so when you drop it, it doesn’t break.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Absolutely brutal.
The Mini lifestyle
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it makes it so much bigger. I’m loving the mini lifestyle so much
⏹️ ▶️ John My case is so slim. I just put a link to my case. Like honestly, someone, we had a friend’s
⏹️ ▶️ John visit and they had a phone like, oh, how are you liking the big iPhone? Cause I thought they had a 12 pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John And they said, I don’t have the big iPhone. I said, yeah, you have, you have the big, like there are the pro max or whatever. You’ve got the big max
⏹️ ▶️ John one, right? And they said, no. So I grabbed their phone and then I took out my phone and held them up to each other.
⏹️ ▶️ John And lo and behold, we had the same size phone, but their case was huge. It just made the phone seem so much bigger.
⏹️ ▶️ John very thin, extremely cheap leather case, which so far turned out to be a great purchase because it’s holding
⏹️ ▶️ John up great, it’s protecting my phone, and it makes the phone barely bigger than it is.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s so slim that I thought someone else’s phone was the bigger size up just because the case was so chunky.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But see, I don’t, the current generation of the medium-sized pros, I really don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the way they feel. I don’t like the polished steel bands and like, I don’t know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all, the massive fingerprint magnets, I think they look terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ John put a case on it, so you don’t have to worry about the steel band anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess like, that is the size phone I had for the last few years before this one, and I lived with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, but I love the Mini so much, except the battery life does suck, and I do miss the 2X camera, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other than those things, I do like it a lot. Like, there’s never a time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’m using my Mini, and I think, my phone is too small. Like, that literally never,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I never think that at all. And every time I handle like TIFF’s Max, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what is this? It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is effectively an iPad. I couldn’t agree with you more.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like, and I know there’s a middle setting that most people pick, and there’s a reason why, but still, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Mini feels so good, even though it has those flaws, like yeah, the battery life
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not good. And especially now that it’s not brand new, you know, I have, it’s almost a year old now, so the battery
⏹️ ▶️ Marco capacity is a little bit less, and I’m using it a little bit more, because it’s summer and I’m walking around a lot, but it is still such
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great size that I’m willing to tolerate the mediocre battery life. And yeah, and the 2X
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens, I do miss that. I would love to have that back, but I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco love the way this phone feels so much that I’m willing to give that up. But yeah, we’ll see this fall. Like the current
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rumors are that it’s gonna be the same sizes and probably roughly the same trade-offs. And if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the case, I might go back to the middle size. I don’t know yet, but I won’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoy it. You tell him.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the worst, like most privileged thing, but still. I want my 2X lens
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back, but man, I really like the size.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If the Mini had all three lenses, which I’m sure would have looked preposterous, I’m sure it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey physically difficult to fit at all. Like I understand why it doesn’t, but my goodness, if it had all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the standard issue camera setup, I probably would have gotten one this past year, but I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey am personally unwilling to give up anything in turn, well, I shouldn’t say anything.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m willing to give up one of the three available lenses because I feel like I do flip between all three quite a bit.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I know we did research about this when this was an issue, you know, a year ago almost. But whether
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or not the facts bore it out, I feel like I use all three of the lenses enough that I would not sacrifice
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and get a mini. And now, because, you know, Apple made this compromise device, not unlike the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook that I loved so much, nobody’s buying them. Who would have thunk it? And so now the rumors are, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s not gonna be more of them, possibly ever, because nobody’s buying them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but, and one theory I heard that I think makes a lot of sense is that this past year,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anybody who bought a new iPhone this year probably did not do so by first handling them in stores, because you couldn’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s true. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so, and like the mini, you kind of have to feel it to get that kind of like, ooh, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want this kind of feeling, because it’s, you know, most people, the idea of going super small
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sounds risky, or they might think it’s not what they want, but once you handle it, that’s when you realize like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever the benefits of it are, and whether that does something for you. You know it when you feel it, right? And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so in a year when most people never went into the stores if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco picking out a phone this year, it does make sense why a lot of people would not have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gone for it. Whereas, current rumor again is that they’re gonna stick with these same three sizes for the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco next year, and I think that we might see a different sales breakdown in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco next year. That being said, I don’t think it’s gonna take off like Wildfire, I still don’t think it’s going to be the most popular phone,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s probably gonna be, you know, a somewhat distant third like it is now, across the three sizes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s still really nice, and they still sell a ton of them in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco absolute terms. You know, it’s not a big percentage, but they still are selling a ton of them,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so I do hope the size continues and continues to improve over time. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even I, after a year, I’m kind of thinking, Maybe I should go back this fall to the middle size
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just to get that 2x lens and the extra battery life back, but I don’t know, we’ll see.
Sponsor: Hover
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Hover. When I want to start a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new business, the first thing I do is I try to get a good name for it. And the first thing I do when
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I try to get a good name is look at domain names. I do all that at Hover. Hover
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a jumping off point for a ton of entrepreneurs. They want you to start your business like I do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a domain name. Hover has over 300 domain name extensions to choose from when building
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your brand online. So no matter what you want to build, there’s a domain name waiting for it. They also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have excellent tech support if you have any questions, or you run into any issues. And their support
⏹️ ▶️ Marco team does not try to upsell you. They only work hard to get you online. They have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco free Whois privacy protection, a super clean, nice UI and control panel,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they have monthly sales on popular top-level domains. So it’s hard not to see why Hover is such
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a popular choice for people starting all kinds of businesses. They really are great.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I use them myself for most of my domains now, and they’re just wonderful. You know, I’ve used a lot of domain registrars in the past,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they’re really, they range from like, you know, ugly and nerdy to scammy.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Hover is none of those things. You know, it’s a really nice business. It treats you well, it respects you, and everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is nice and easy to use. They have great support when you need it. I’ve used it myself a couple times, like I’ve used the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco support a couple times. It’s just wonderful. See for yourself. It’s so nice at Hover to register your domain names
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. Grab your next domain name and many more hover.com slash ATP.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can get a 10% discount with that link on all new purchases. Once again, hover.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP. Make a name for yourself with Hover.
Smart-home follow-up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Robert Spivak writes, as a designer slash installer of smart home systems, I think I can contribute a few thoughts and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some insight about what was mentioned about being without being self-promotional or a hidden agenda.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Robert writes, I can’t prove it, but I swear the problems with Apple HomeKit Wi-Fi devices is rooted in Apple’s problems
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Bonjour and multicast DNS. HomeKit is totally reliant on mDNS, which Apple uses, but almost
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing else does. Robert apparently has tested 15 different smart plugs from all kinds of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey manufacturers, and they’ve all had the symptom of mysteriously dropping off HomeKit Wi-Fi networks. Some in a few hours, some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a few days, some after a few months. But the common symptom is that they still have an IP address and can be pinged.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But in any MDNS lookup app, like the free Discovery apps for iOS, macOS, et cetera, they have dropped
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of the MDNS section. Anecdotally, after swapping a lot of Wi-Fi gear and finally methodically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey upgrading and downgrading firmware and various access points and Wi-Fi routers, It appears that MDNS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey support is simply buggy or poorly implemented. When a stable combination of software firmware is found, the devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t drop off anymore. I’m not sure I buy this, but I certainly have a lot less experience
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think so. This was in response to last week. I was talking, I was basically expressing my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco woes in trying to get smart home devices that were actually reliable and in particular like a smart outlet behind an ice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maker that’s built in, it’s kind of hard to access. And, um, and I had said like, I’ve never found anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like smart home wise that worked 100% of the time or that didn’t occasionally require you to like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go repair it with things or whatever. And a couple of pieces
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of followup. Number one, I had forgotten that I have a Lutron cassette
⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of at my house. When they, when they, when they,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco uh, you know, put in my front lights, like to meet some kind of safety building code,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they had to be on some kind of timer so they would always automatically turn on at night. They did that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a Lutron cassette setup. And so I actually have that and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I never think about it because it always just works. And there’s switches on the wall also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to control the lights. So like, I just, I kind of forgot that that’s there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s a good sign that maybe that’s something I should look into. And I heard from a bunch of other people that Lutron
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is worth looking into, whether it’s the cassette or the, you know, higher-end radio raw stuff. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I ordered the Lutron outlet. They have like they have one that’s made for outdoor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use that looks like it’ll probably fit back there so I have that on order. I will report back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to let you know how that goes. But that’s part one and part two is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think I probably agree with this feedback you know anecdotally it does seem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Wi-Fi is the problem. Whether it’s like the actual radio
⏹️ ▶️ Marco layer or the association with the you know with the SSID or whether it’s IP
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mapping or DHCP problem who knows what but it does seem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Wi-Fi is the common thread here of like if you avoid Wi-Fi
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you go with something that uses its own radio stuff like you know the Zigbee
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever all that all that stuff including Lutron stuff anything that basically has to have some kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of little radio base to make its own mesh network or whatever. That seems,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it seems like people have better experiences with that stuff than anything that connects directly to WiFi
⏹️ ▶️ Marco itself. If that’s the case, apparently the new chip or matter
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff heavily uses thread as the radio protocol between devices when possible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think thread is one of those things. That being said, I don’t know anything about thread yet. But it does seem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the industry also realized that Wi-Fi was a pretty big part of the problem. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so if we can get more reliable stuff that uses like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thread or other radio technologies that can somehow work together and not have like a closet full of hubs, then great.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If that works, great. But in the meantime, I’m gonna try the Lutron stuff and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see if that works and report back.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of weird that the computer spawned stuff, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, end up not
⏹️ ▶️ John being reliable enough for sort of utilitarian purposes, whereas in both cases, the
⏹️ ▶️ John less computery, like the dedicated radio stuff for the home things or the dedicated little
⏹️ ▶️ John USB RF dongles for Logitech mice, at least in my experience, is much more reliable than
⏹️ ▶️ John Bluetooth. Like sort of not purpose-built because they’re all kind of doing the same job, but
⏹️ ▶️ John the ones that, you know, the Logitech thing is not built to be a general purpose wireless networking
⏹️ ▶️ John protocol. It’s made for mice and keyboards. So they can really concentrate on that one use case. And
⏹️ ▶️ John in my experience, they nail it. The range is amazing. The reliability is great. You know, I
⏹️ ▶️ John think it’s way better than any Bluetooth I’ve ever used. And then in the home stuff, what’s wrong with wifi? All our other
⏹️ ▶️ John devices are on wifi, everything’s fine. But if you think about it, like wifi is something that
⏹️ ▶️ John even when it’s in a house and it’s very reliable, we’re used to the idea that a device could fall
⏹️ ▶️ John off of wifi and then have to get back on it, right? This is something that happens, right? Even if just
⏹️ ▶️ John your device is restarted, Like it goes off of wifi, then it gets back on and it reconnects. And if you get a new device,
⏹️ ▶️ John you have to tell it about your network and your password and the right SSID. And there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John all those sort of steps that involve getting on your network. If someone comes and visits your house, which network
⏹️ ▶️ John should they go on? What’s the password? You know, all this other stuff, the different security levels. Oh, this device supports five gigahertz,
⏹️ ▶️ John this one supports 2.4. Like a wifi network is flexible and supports all our devices, but
⏹️ ▶️ John everything I’ve just described, I think anyone who’s had wifi for a long time has experienced the sort of
⏹️ ▶️ John busy work, management, maintenance of a wifi network, and no one wants to have any
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of management or maintenance of their light switches. Like you just don’t want to literally
⏹️ ▶️ John ever have to do anything, or for that matter, their thermostat, right, or anything like that. Like when you’re talking about your Nest thermostat
⏹️ ▶️ John and how you dislike everything, I was thinking about my thermostat, which I don’t even, honestly, I don’t know if it
⏹️ ▶️ John was here when we moved in or if we got it when we replaced the furnace in the basement. But either way,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve literally never thought about it. I don’t think I’ve ever even changed the batteries. And I think it just takes like a double
⏹️ ▶️ John A, like one double A battery, right? Like just, there is a zero tolerance
⏹️ ▶️ John for any kind of maintenance work. And wifi just isn’t like that.
⏹️ ▶️ John As great as it is, like I think, you know, I don’t really think about my wifi, but we just had some friends over
⏹️ ▶️ John and I had to tell them which SSID to connect to and what the password was, right? And when I do get new devices,
⏹️ ▶️ John like even just the new Apple TV, I got, you know, it asked me which network to connect to, or if it doesn’t grab the network info
⏹️ ▶️ John from something else or whenever you get a new TiVo, when I used to get those back in the day, there is some amount
⏹️ ▶️ John of futzing to do. But with, you know, with appliance stuff, you just want it to always work. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know how this is gonna sort itself out, but the depressing history of Bluetooth does not make me optimistic
⏹️ ▶️ John about the idea of any of these computer technologies ever getting to the point where they’re as reliable as
⏹️ ▶️ John the dedicated ones. So I also don’t know anything about Thread, but I really hope Thread is a
⏹️ ▶️ John more purpose-built networking protocol that concentrates on a smart home use case and doesn’t care about,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, computer stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think also part of it is like the computer standards, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, they are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco massively more complicated and always changing. Like when Wi-Fi was first coming around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know, like around like, you know, 2000 2010 like, you know, in that range,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it was first getting, you know, ubiquitous, it was a lot more primitive than it is now. and it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also a lot simpler than it is now. You know, think about, as you mentioned, 2.4 gigahertz versus five gigahertz
⏹️ ▶️ Marco support. The way that’s implemented at the WiFi layer is everything broadcasts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco two SSIDs, you know, one for each one, and devices have to figure that out, and they don’t always do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that right. Now we have, in common usage, multipoint WiFi networks,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where you’re broadcasting from multiple SSIDs from multiple little routers or boosters around your house,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so you have to, like, devices have to manage that, and not see them as 19
⏹️ ▶️ Marco separate SSIDs and be able to roam if it’s a portable device between them. Everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so much more complicated now than when Wi-Fi was first designed and was first supported. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s kind of no wonder that some kind of $4 Wi-Fi chip in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a smart home outlet that has to sell for 10 bucks to be competitive might be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of crappy at dealing with that in practice, or it might be a little bit buggy or a little bit off, or just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not quite very good or reliable at that. And so something like Thread,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you think about the needs of a smart home networking solution versus anything else,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so different than computer-based things that are mainly focused on things like data
⏹️ ▶️ Marco transfer rates and stuff like that. Smart home stuff needs to be almost no
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bandwidth. You need very little data transfer, except maybe like cameras. But otherwise,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most stuff, you don’t need very much bandwidth. And what you do need is reliability,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco range, and enough security to keep people out
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who wouldn’t be authorized, but not so much security that you’re transmitting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco state secrets within your house to tell your light switch that it’s on or not. So the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs are just so totally different. And it makes sense why,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in practice, the actual hardware that you can get for smart home devices
⏹️ ▶️ Marco might be universally 80% good, but impossible to make 100% good,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, without charging enough that nobody would buy it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, all I want to say is that Lutron Caseta, in my limited experience, it’s only lasted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a couple of months, but it is excellent. It’s basically bulletproof and it, generally speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can have a physical switch as well as, you know, control via your phone or HomeKit or what have you,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which to me, I think, and we’ve brought this video up several times, but a friend of the show Quinn,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think nailed it on the head. You want physical controls in addition to shouting into the air.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey When you have one or the other, it’s really not the best. But when you can hit a freaking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey button in order to turn the lights on and off, you want to have that as a backup always, no matter what.
HSTS Preload follow-up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving right along with regard to HSTS, which may or may not be a list.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jacob writes, I don’t think Safari’s automatic HTTPS upgrade has much to do with HSTS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because Safari supported that header in the preload list for several years. My guess is that it works similar to DuckDuckGo’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey smarter encryption. We’ll put a link in the show notes. And here’s a quote, at the center of DuckDuckGo’s smarter encryption
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a large list of websites that we know have encrypted or for HTTPS versions of their websites, which we use to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ensure that you can only interact with, that you only interact with these encrypted versions.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We automatically generate this list by continually crawling the web.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so I don’t know if it’s from Apple or which one of those things it is, but yeah, having a list that Apple maintains in addition
⏹️ ▶️ John to supporting HSTS sounds plausible.
Safari bar color from content
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving right along, Scott Sutton writes, I just can’t wait until Apple allows the webpage to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey change the color of my physical iMac. It’s just so jarring to be looking at that webpage and see that non-color
⏹️ ▶️ Casey coordinated keyboard hovering at the edge of my vision.
⏹️ ▶️ John I put this in here because it was a funny joke, but honestly, like, first of all, people with PCs probably already do this
⏹️ ▶️ John with all their RGB stuff, right? You know, it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John to think that, people are certainly changing the color of their keyboard based on the game they’re playing or whatever. Changing the color
⏹️ ▶️ John of your computer based on where you’re going is definitely a thing that I can imagine Apple doing someday,
⏹️ ▶️ John especially as the technology becomes possible and maybe less tacky.
⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s also trying to slam the new Safari UI where they’re changing
⏹️ ▶️ John the Safari Chrome to match the website in some sort of, I think, mostly
⏹️ ▶️ John misguided attempt to make the website bleed into the application you’re using to
⏹️ ▶️ John render it. And I’m not sure how much value there is
⏹️ ▶️ John in that. If you like the way it looks, maybe, but there’s so much variability, I really don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John want to give webpages that much control over my UI. I think we talked about this in the
⏹️ ▶️ John past couple of weeks. So just like, it’s a matter of degree.
⏹️ ▶️ John When Apple allows you to allow your desktop background to tint your windows,
⏹️ ▶️ John or to show through your menu bar, right, or to allow the time of day to influence whether your computer
⏹️ ▶️ John is light mode or dark mode, I would say, even the light mode, dark mode things, in general,
⏹️ ▶️ John more subtle, like in terms of how much influence does content you
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t control have over your interface. For the light and dark mode, you would say that’s not subtle, that’s a total flipping of the UI. But,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s just two things. There’s light mode and dark mode that Apple and presumably app developers have tailored to
⏹️ ▶️ John look okay. The light mode looks okay and the dark mode looks okay. It’s not arbitrary control
⏹️ ▶️ John over your user interface by random people’s web pages or even random people’s individual apps.
⏹️ ▶️ John And even the desktop background, which of course you control, it just subtly hints the color of
⏹️ ▶️ John things and shows through the menu bar a little bit. I would say the menu bar goes a little bit too far, right? But Safari 15
⏹️ ▶️ John is along that spectrum. It’s just way over at the other edge where you’re really giving,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, almost total arbitrary control of what color the UI is. And then Safari mightily tries
⏹️ ▶️ John to lay out all of its text and controls on top of whatever color was dictated by the web page
⏹️ ▶️ John because they do want to make the web page like the background blend into the UI so you can’t have the UI just be influenced
⏹️ ▶️ John by green it has to literally be the same green for this effect they’re going for and I just don’t think it’s a great idea
⏹️ ▶️ John again you can turn off all these features you can turn off the window tinting you can’t I think you can’t turn off the menu bar
⏹️ ▶️ John which really annoys me although there’s that boring old menu bar app that you can use to hack around it you don’t need to use dark mode if
⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want to right you can turn off this feature in Safari but I just
⏹️ ▶️ John these are what we’re talking about are the defaults I’m pretty sure window tinting is the default this is the problem with
⏹️ ▶️ John always upgrading your Mac I don’t actually know what the defaults are anymore cuz I don’t do Mac OS X reviews but I think window tinting
⏹️ ▶️ John might be the default it seems like so far the Safari thing that we’re complaining about it is
⏹️ ▶️ John the default but yeah along this not too much farther along this spectrum
⏹️ ▶️ John is changing the physical color of your computer if it was possible because hey why not like Like for the
⏹️ ▶️ John same reason that you have a color coordinated desktop background and keyboard and trackpad, like it looks
⏹️ ▶️ John nice. I can imagine if you had all those peripherals be chameleon like the exact same
⏹️ ▶️ John philosophy that says if the website is green, Safari’s Chrome should be green, should also make your entire Mac green.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s just it’s along that path just a little bit farther down and not actually not that much farther down.
⏹️ ▶️ John I probably wouldn’t be in favor of it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What about those TVs that have like the edge LEDs that can change color based on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco content that’s being shown on the TV screen. Hey, those proved to be a great idea. Why doesn’t Apple just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do that? Just have every webpage, and of course, as you scroll, it would scroll with it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The whole thing would animate your whole wall. You know, why not just get the entire computer out
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, like theming is a thing. Like I remember doing this in the classic Mac OS days of like picking a kaleidoscope’s
⏹️ ▶️ John theme and a desktop background and an icon set that has a look, whether that look is kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of a dark mode or like everything is lime green or the teal, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John iMac, you know, bluish iMac days, right? There is something to that
⏹️ ▶️ John aesthetic. I don’t, like I don’t begrudge people theming and I think all the colored iMacs
⏹️ ▶️ John are a great idea. It’s the connection between something you don’t control like
⏹️ ▶️ John a webpage and your stuff. Like if it feels like someone reaching across the internet
⏹️ ▶️ John and changing like the lighting in your room or the color of your rug. And that connection
⏹️ ▶️ John is the problem. The problem is not having a theme or having all your peripherals match. I think all that is great.
⏹️ ▶️ John I just feel like it needs to be under the user’s control more than allowing, again, arbitrary
⏹️ ▶️ John web pages, which is the biggest canvas of the world to invade
⏹️ ▶️ John your computing environment and screw with it. Like, because you control your desktop background, right? And you can turn all these features on and off,
⏹️ ▶️ John I suppose. But I just think that connection is not the best strategy. We’ll see. Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John sticks to it in terms of its faults.
Weekly Safari-redesign flogging
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do either of you have the beta on your phones yet?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have the beta on a non-carry phone, which I’ve only used very briefly, to be honest with you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But my initial impressions were that I like Safari on the phone. I also have it on my,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not carry iPad, but my day-to-day iPad. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually don’t mind the color. It is jarring, but I don’t mind it. I think I would
⏹️ ▶️ Casey get used to it. However, I would like to echo the entirety
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the internet who has been saying that the tabs are garbage because they are straight garbage. On iPad,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on iPhone, I’m fine with it. On iPad, no good. And I haven’t run the Mac beta yet, but I have a feeling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I would feel the exact same way as the iPad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So when you put it on your carry phone, whenever that happens, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco revisit how much you like Safari on the phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s fair, that’s fair. Again, I really haven’t used it very much. It was a few minutes here and there,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the initial impressions were very, very good. But I will be the first to tell you that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you might be exactly right, that if I put it on a phone that I’m using more than a few minutes a day, it might drive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me absolutely bananas.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know what’s the worst thing about it to me? Like now that I know I’ve complained about it a lot,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but just like a few new observations. This is the new Safari on the phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, it seems like the touch targets are smaller now for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like certain toolbar elements for all over the US, but especially in Safari, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the tug zone for that dot dot dot menu, like I feel like I’m missing it sometimes. And a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of the other controls, like since they spaced it more away from edges
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of things or like bars, it seems like you actually have less vertical space
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on some of the controls. So I keep just missing the controls. And then also, because it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco does this ridiculous thing where it has the bar on the bottom and then you tap it and then it zooms
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to the top so that you can edit the text, the location that you have to tap
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to edit the text moves around the screen all the time. And I’m finding it’s breaking muscle
⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory constantly because I keep tapping up top to edit the URL
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or to do something on the page before the bar is there or something. And I realize, oh, it’s at the bottom.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I go to the bottom, tap, oh, now it’s zoomed up to the top. Woo, and you gotta go find it. And like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m finding it’s breaking tons of muscle memory because Safari on iPhone,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it has worked similarly for so long. Like in the way it was before this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was mostly unchanged for so long that there’s tons of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like just automatic muscle memory from being an iPhone user that you don’t necessarily realize
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be destroyed when making a radically new UI like this. But that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me is the biggest point of friction is that I don’t know where to tap and I don’t know where to look
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a certain control for longer now. I have to like re-figure it all out. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve had it on my main phone now for about a week and I’m still not used to it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like I still think it’s terrible, but I’m thinking like, hey, maybe as I use it more, maybe I’ll get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco used to it. Nope, a week in, hasn’t happened yet. I’ll keep you posted. But I’m finding
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it incredibly cumbersome. And even simple stuff like having to do two taps for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a reload, one of the most common things I do in Safari is I check
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pages on my servers that show me statuses of things or show me things I have to go
⏹️ ▶️ Marco through, like new ad buys I have to approve or something like that. And my workflow for those pages is I go to those tabs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I hit refresh to see what’s new. And so I realize now how often I need
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to hit refresh in Safari on mobile. Turns out it’s a lot more than I would have guessed if you would have just asked me a few months
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago. And I have to just, like, I have to just re, I guess, redo those pages
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to reload themselves with JavaScript or something. Because I- You’re not using pull to refresh on
⏹️ ▶️ John We talked about it on the show.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Hang on, oh, I just- I mean, if you’re at the top of the page, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I just hit the tab square button to pull up my list of tabs. And, wait, where the hell am I?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did I break it? No, I broke it. I can’t get to my list of tabs anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now it just brings up a new page. Anyway, somehow, when I get back to my list of tabs, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like scrolled up. Now I guess there’s some kind of gesture where a side swipe on your tab,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess, closes it. So I scrolled up a little bit off and accidentally closed a tab, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know which one it is, and I can’t get it back. So great. This is a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of fun. I love Safari. Shake your phone, shake don’t do. Let me see. Shaking.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s always my desperation is like, I only have one move left, and it’s to shake my phone and hope desperately
⏹️ ▶️ John that whoever made this app is stuck in like 2009 and made shake to undo
⏹️ ▶️ John work to restore a tab.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, shake to undo didn’t work, first of all. And yeah, I always,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever I have to shake my phone to undo, I kind of like do it under the table. Like I look around, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t want anybody to see me doing this. You
⏹️ ▶️ John can, there’s a gesture for it now too, right? Isn’t it like three finger double tap or something? Chatroom will
⏹️ ▶️ John have it in a second.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, I didn’t know that.
⏹️ ▶️ John There’s some gesture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it as well. Oh yeah. Yeah, because I always feel like I look like such a fool doing this. It’s satisfying though.
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re like punishing the phone for making a mistake. Bad phone, bring that text back.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, anyway, so if my Safari ever works again, I’ll keep you posted, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I literally can’t do anything now. It’s totally broken.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I just installed the Safari technology preview on my iMac at the suggestion
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of somebody in the chat who has already scrolled off the screen, so I apologize. This f***ing sucks. I hate
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey The Safari technology
⏹️ ▶️ John different than actual Monterey in a few areas, but in general, yeah, that’s the UI. I have it installed as well. The good
⏹️ ▶️ John thing about Safari technology preview is that you can run it alongside regular Safari, and they have separate worlds
⏹️ ▶️ John of everything, as far as I can tell. At least they have separate state, because when I was trying to test, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John reload button stuff or whatever, every time, you know, I would quit and relaunch Safari, I have it configured to
⏹️ ▶️ John restore all of my windows, There’s too many
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco windows to be closing and opening.
⏹️ ▶️ John But Safari technology preview, I just had one window. And so quit, launch, quit, launch. Yeah, that’s for everyone,
⏹️ ▶️ John we should put a link in the chat. If you want to try out the new terrible Safari on your Mac, but don’t want to try Monterey,
⏹️ ▶️ John which I think is a wise thing to do, Safari technology preview, that will run on your,
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever the hell OS we’re on now. I was gonna say Catalina, but that’s not right, is it? Big
⏹️ ▶️ John Sur? Big Sur, yeah, sorry. I think, I’m not sure how far back it’ll run, but
⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, I’m running it on Big Sur. Check out Purple Safari, it’s cool. Is it?
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, Purple Safari is cool,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this new UI is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope they don’t ship this. I’m getting scared, I’m getting scared they’re going to. Yeah. At least
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Gruber complained in large, organized fashion, so they tend to listen to him pretty well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially with Safari UI stuff. So hopefully, maybe it’s getting to the right ears
⏹️ ▶️ John eyes. I still think that every change I see is like, all it needs is some minor tweaks to address
⏹️ ▶️ John the biggest complaints and it’ll be great, right, everybody? Like we already put the preference in for you to turn off the window tinting so no one can complain
⏹️ ▶️ John about that, which I agree with them. Like you put a pref in the GUI to turn it off, good, thumbs up, that’s good.
⏹️ ▶️ John But the tabs, no preferences getting rid of those, right? And these minor tweaks
⏹️ ▶️ John are like, here’s a reload button, now the share button can be in the toolbar, everything’s fixed now, right? It’s like, no, you’re not getting it.
⏹️ ▶️ John The whole, like, it’s like when,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you something-
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They are the rubber gaskets of Safari UI problems.
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like someone shows you something to critique or something and they’re expecting you to give them like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, maybe change this small thing or that small thing. And what you really want to say is start over.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing about this is good. Your fundamental idea is bad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ve added a protective membrane under the keys.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s similar to that, but it’s the UI version. Like, yeah. I
⏹️ ▶️ John understand what they’re going for. And there is a measurable benefit in terms of vertical
⏹️ ▶️ John screen real estate, but it’s just like, I don’t think I’ve seen a single review that has
⏹️ ▶️ John not said the same exact thing, which is like, here are the benefits, here are the drawbacks, they’re out
⏹️ ▶️ John of balance. Like people aren’t being mean to it, just be like, oh, you’re bad and this is bad and you should never try
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like- It’s new, oh my God, it’s new. Like you tried it, yeah. And there is some part of that, because here’s
⏹️ ▶️ John what I think. I think if we get stuck with this UI, we will eventually begrudgingly become accustomed to it.
⏹️ ▶️ John And there is a little bit of that, I’m trying a new thing and it’s different. Marco mentioned the muscle memory for the
⏹️ ▶️ John phone version, the Mac version is all weird, but I feel like we’ve had enough time with it now and enough people have
⏹️ ▶️ John really just sat down and analyzed and said, it’s not all awful,
⏹️ ▶️ John but the trade-offs don’t work, right? We get benefit and then we have drawbacks and the drawbacks are just so much bigger.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s a sign of a unsuccessful experiment, I think. So I really hope they try something
⏹️ ▶️ John different eventually, but I totally feel like they’re going to ship this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I feel like, like I think one of my favorite parts of Gruber’s critique of the Safari design,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this actually better or did they just redesign it to just be different? And I get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that feeling with a lot of modern Apple redesign stuff that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, sometimes it is better, but it seems like the design team wants to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco move forward, whatever that means, so badly that they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to redesign stuff on a certain interval, even if A, it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco necessarily need it, and or B, what they come up with might not necessarily actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be better. It might just be different. I feel like, you know, designers, programmers, we’re the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco same way. We don’t like the old, and we always try to justify rewriting something we’ve done
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before because we want to do it in a new, cool way using some new API or new programming technique or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And designers, I think, have a similar problem of like, they want to do something new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they get tired of the old. And it’s always fun to redesign something and try to really radically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco change it. And what if we totally rethought, you know, X, Y, Z, boring thing that we haven’t touched in a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while? It’s very appealing. I get the appeal to do that. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so often, just as programmers, oftentimes when we rewrite things or refactor things, oftentimes we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make them worse or we forget to fix all the bugs that we forgot over the last 10 years in the new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco version, and so the new version actually ends up being buggier and possibly not worth it to the customer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the company. I feel like redesigns have similar problems, where
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s this push, and you want to redesign this as a designer, and you think, I’m gonna make my mark on this project
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or on this product. I’m gonna really rethink the way browsers
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look or whatever. Sometimes that’s good. Sometimes that gives you really great results,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but not every time. It’s very important for an organization to be able to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tell the difference and to catch things like this before they ship if it’s not actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better. And in this case, it hasn’t shipped yet, technically.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco These are still betas, but I hope that Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gets it right in their decision-making here that these redesigns of Safari,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco while they are different, and while they have some good ideas, both
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the desktop and iPhone versions fail in pretty big ways as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco designs. And I don’t think they’re better. And I don’t know anyone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who does, who doesn’t work at Apple. Even people who work there, I think many of them don’t think so either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know how you could put this out there and see the reaction that the world has given
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and think, alright, we’re good, let’s ship it in the fall. So I hope they’re hearing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us at deeper levels then just, we’ll add a reload button and it’s fixed, right?
Memoji login screen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Finally, this has been hanging out in the follow-up section for, I feel like, two months or something like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, even though it’s probably less than that. So Daniel Yount writes, hey, what’s going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on here? And there’s a video of the login screen, and apparently Daniel’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey avatar for his Mac is his Memoji, and the eyeballs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on his Memoji are following his mouse cursor, like Super Mario style in Super Mario World.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, like from the title screen. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
⏹️ ▶️ John This has been here. It’s X size guys or the the eyes in the menu bar on the Mac But X size probably predates
⏹️ ▶️ John it anyway this was in here for so long just because I Initially couldn’t tell is this just a joke video of
⏹️ ▶️ John like hey, wouldn’t it be cool if they added this feature? And then once I got Monterey on a Mac, I every
⏹️ ▶️ John time I was on it I mostly forgot to do this. I was like, how do you set your memoji as your avatar? I didn’t quite know
⏹️ ▶️ John how to do it or I mostly I just thought of it when I wasn’t on that computer and it was reboot it into, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John big Sur or something like that. But finally I saw someone discussing online how to set
⏹️ ▶️ John your avatar to your memoji in Monterey. So once I saw that, like this must be real then, uh, because
⏹️ ▶️ John you can apparently set, use your memoji as your avatar. And then once you do that, it
⏹️ ▶️ John seems plausible that on the login screen if you move the cursor around the eyes, every little three D memoji will fire
⏹️ ▶️ John your cursor. Um, that is a cool feature even though I think memoji are,
⏹️ ▶️ John we’ve talked about this before, are a great example of Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ John corporate aesthetic taking precedence over the literal size, shape, and look of people’s faces.
⏹️ ▶️ John Because Memoji are standardized in a way that human beings are not, and Apple essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t let you make a Memoji that actually looks like yourself if you happen to
⏹️ ▶️ John not have the skull shape that Apple has decided is the appropriate skull shape for humans. As compared
⏹️ ▶️ John to Nintendo with their Miis where you can absolutely make any grotesquerie
⏹️ ▶️ John that matches you exactly. And that’s why people who are good at making
⏹️ ▶️ John Miis can make Miis where someone looks at it and says, oh, yep, that’s Uncle Tom, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John Grandpa, that’s Susie, right? You recognize the people because you have enough flexibility
⏹️ ▶️ John to make something that does not fit with the Nintendo aesthetic or whatever. Whereas everybody
⏹️ ▶️ John in Memoji looks like this just cherubic sphere face,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, even Apple when they did their, they did like little memoji for all like the executive team or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like Phil Schiller looks nothing like Phil Schiller, like the Phil Schiller memoji, presumably done
⏹️ ▶️ John by the best the best minds the best memoji experts inside Apple, you cannot make a memoji apparently
⏹️ ▶️ John that looks like Phil Schiller because his head just isn’t shaped like that. And anyway, sorry to
⏹️ ▶️ John go on the momoji rant. But if you happen to like that, or if you just want to be an idealized cartoon version of of yourself that
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t actually look like you, check out Memoji and then your eyes can follow the cursor, maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’ll permit me, I don’t want to complete this whole episode, but is it just me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or does it seem like Apple likes Memoji a lot more than everyone else does?
⏹️ ▶️ John I think people like it a lot. I see a lot of Memoji usage among non-nerd people.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, I mean, even before that, remember Bitmoji? Like, there’s been a lot of things online.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bitmoji is huge, but even that, so I feel like Memoji, I think it was a really cool, fun
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing, and I think it was a fad for a short time, and I think that time has passed. I mean, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John maybe everyone’s using it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Because when people pick that or make their Memoji and use
⏹️ ▶️ John it as their avatar, like all of us, once you find an avatar that you are okay with,
⏹️ ▶️ John you just tend to leave it there. And I think that, you’re right that
⏹️ ▶️ John people aren’t just super excited about it, but it’s like, oh, that’s my avatar. I know people who have Bitmoji avatar right now and they’ve had
⏹️ ▶️ John them for years. Like I think that it’s fulfilling its role of give me a tool to make an
⏹️ ▶️ John avatar that I’m comfortable with to present to the world. And some people aren’t comfortable
⏹️ ▶️ John with doing an actual photo of themselves. They want something more stylized and so Momoji provides that. I think Momoji
⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s well implemented. The feature is well implemented. It has a lot of cool things to it. It’s nicely modeled.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can do the whole tongue wagging, sticking out things. It’s just fundamentally flawed as a way to capture people’s likenesses,
⏹️ ▶️ John which if that’s not what you want, if you don’t want to capture your likeness, then fine. But if you want to capture your likeness, this is not the tool for you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I know a handful of people, nerdy and non-nerdy, that have Memoji as their
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like iMessage avatar picture, whatever. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the funniest thing is, I can’t remember who it is other than my dad, but there’s a handful
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of people in my life that are all older white dudes, and I swear to you, every single one of those Memojis
⏹️ ▶️ Casey looks absolutely identical. Like, Oh, it’s another old white guy. There you go. They’re exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the same to John’s point. Exactly the same. every single one of them.
Sponsor: ExpressVPN
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by ExpressVPN.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We all take little risks every day when we go online, whether we think about it or not. We think our connection probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco won’t be spied on, or our pages won’t have crap injected into them, or whatever. Our data
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably won’t be used against us. But every time you connect to an unencrypted network,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cafes, hotels, airports, Any hacker on the same network or anybody working
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the network or the ISP connects to can gain access to any data that’s sent unencrypted
⏹️ ▶️ Marco over that network. It doesn’t take much technical knowledge to hack someone, just some cheap hardware and software.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco A smart 12-year-old could do it. And your data is valuable. Hackers can make up to $1,000
⏹️ ▶️ Marco per person selling your personal info on the dark web. ExpressVPN creates a secure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet so that those hackers in the middle working
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on like you know the Wi-Fi connection you’re connected to or your ISP They can’t see any of your unencrypted
⏹️ ▶️ Marco data traveling over that connection it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get past ExpressVPN’s encryption and ExpressVPN is simple to use on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of your devices All you do is fire up the app and click one button to get protected
⏹️ ▶️ Marco personally, I I won’t use like hotel, airport, wifi, anything like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that without a VPN because I just don’t trust the network and you shouldn’t either, honestly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you’re gonna use a VPN, ExpressVPN is a very well rated one. It’s the one I use when I need it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and can recommend it. So ExpressVPN, very simple. Secure your online data today
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at expressvpn.com slash ATP. That’s expressvpn.com slash
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP and you can get an extra three months free with a one year package. expressvpn.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP. Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring our show.
John’s mouse pad
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, John, tell us. I know we have all been waiting with bated breath. What’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going on with your mouse pad and your mouse?
⏹️ ▶️ John We just had a few questions and theories from people after last show that I wanted to close the
⏹️ ▶️ John loop on. If you recall, it was my mouse pad where the right side of it was not as good
⏹️ ▶️ John for tracking as far as my optical mouse was concerned as the left side. It’s not really half and half. It’s actually like a
⏹️ ▶️ John bad area that’s more or less towards the right side. One theory people had was maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the mouse pad, maybe it’s the cable, because remember my mouse is plugged in. And maybe when, they were saying, maybe when you go
⏹️ ▶️ John to the right side of the mouse pad, your cable bends in a certain way and maybe you have like a, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John a break or a flaw inside the conductor and when you do that it causes interference or, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John it loses continuity for a short period of time, something like that. So maybe it’s your cable. Check that and
⏹️ ▶️ John nope, that’s not it. You know, doesn’t really matter where the cable is, I can move the cable around, I
⏹️ ▶️ John can and wiggle it, it doesn’t have any effect. It’s only that spot on the mouse pad. The next theory was maybe it’s not the mouse pad, maybe it’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John desk surface or, you know, something else emanating
⏹️ ▶️ John from the earth underneath where it is. To test that one, I just removed the mouse pad
⏹️ ▶️ John from where it is and I put it on an entirely different place on the desk and I rotated it 90 degrees various times
⏹️ ▶️ John and used the mouse on it. And the bad spot is really on the mouse pad. Wherever
⏹️ ▶️ John that bad spot is, no matter what surface I put it on, no matter how I rotate the mouse pad,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can track the bad spot, and the mouse has a little bit of trouble tracking on that spot. I did
⏹️ ▶️ John mean to, this weekend, cut myself a new mouse pad from one of my sheets of mouse pad material
⏹️ ▶️ John to eliminate this problem, but I got distracted at some point and didn’t actually do that, so I’m still using the bad
⏹️ ▶️ John mouse pad, but on my to-do list is to cut a new mouse pad for myself. That’s an amazing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It is something.
Family document management
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We had a question from Jason Abreu, and he writes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my name is Jason and I’m soon to be married to my fiance in September of this year, which might’ve even been 2020 for all I know, but nevertheless.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think we beat it.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think we got it. I think September means this fall. So we may actually be reading
⏹️ ▶️ John a reading of feedback in a timely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey manner. Squeaking it in at the last second. All right. I think that moving in and creating our own family is an opportunity
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to put in place some solid and safe process for us to handle our shared digital data. I was wondering if you could give me some advice
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on how you manage your family’s digital life and documents. I’m concerned with digital backups of things like important receipts, which may
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be needed later for warranty purposes, insurance policy documents, fun stuff like that. I’m also thinking of things
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like shared bank statements or other types of financial documents. As for photos, I currently use Google Photos due to the fact that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s web-based and I refuse to give Apple money for subpar online photo storage. My people.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ideally, I’d prefer an online self-managed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s pretty good. It’s not subpar, it’s pretty good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually, I have an aside about this. I’ll try to remember to talk
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco about it forget this topic, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, you’re gonna maybe like it. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco coming back to what Jason
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrote, ideally, I prefer an offline self managed solution, but I’m leaning more and more toward an online solution.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t have to worry about physically maintaining hard drives. My concern with an online solution is if the service will be around five years from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now, and our documents actually stored in an encrypted, secure manner. I actually don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have too much to say about this, because there’s not a lot of documents that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I consider to be precious. That being said, things like scans of our passports,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey our driver’s licenses, birth certificate, our wills. So, you know, for wills
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and things of that nature, we put them in 1Password. That’s not to say that that’s the best or most perfect place, but that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I do and it seems to work. And one of the nice things about 1Password for families, they’re not a sponsor right
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now, and I don’t remember if they’ve been in a long time, but one of the nice things about 1Password for families
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that you you can create different vaults. And so like I have a vault, Aaron has a vault, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey then my business stuff is in its own vault. And then I also have like a vault
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dedicated mostly to travel documents like passports and birth certificates and driver’s license
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and things like that. But also things like, you know, Aaron and I each have our own will. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m trying to think of other examples, but for me, I like putting that stuff in one password because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m super selective about what ends up in there. And if it’s in one password, it’s got to be really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fricking important. And so that’s what I do for almost anything else that I don’t consider
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be near as important or as critical. I just have it on my Synology sitting there in a particular
⏹️ ▶️ Casey folder where I can find that sort of thing easily if necessary, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not like super encrypted or anything like that. That’s what I do. Marco, I have a feeling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you also don’t have too much to say about this famous last word. with you and then finish
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, by the way, some real-time follow-up. We had 1Password sponsor our show less than one month ago.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wasn’t that recently? God, I’m such a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco jerk. It was June 10th. Oh, I’m the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey worst. Oh, man, I’m sorry. I love 1Password. Hand to God, I really do love 1Password.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is one of my favorite pieces of software on any of my devices. And I would say that partially because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel guilty, but I also am saying that because I really honestly believe it. It is really, truly that good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and I’m also a 1Password user. I know John’s not, but that’s cool. You got two of the three of us, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is it cool? I don’t know if it’s cool. It’s acceptable, but I don’t know if it’s cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so I use my password. We also have the family account so that Tiff and I can have the shared vault
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John two of us for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of shared credentials
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like we put any of our kid’s credentials for his account, we put those in the shared vault so that Tiff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I can both have access. You know, if he’s like, hey, I gotta log into Minecraft on my iPad or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like we both, whichever parent is around can help with that request. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s very good. I too use it for very sensitive documents, things like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco passports, IDs, and stuff like that. But for the most part,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big important stuff like wills and things like that, those are just at lawyers’ offices. And I have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco scans of them, and we have one of those fireproof boxes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not really, it’s not a safe, but it’s a fire-resistant box. And we have hard copies of all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that kind of stuff in that box. So to me, anything like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that are of the nature of, if I am incapacitated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or dead, what does my family or other people need from me for that?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That, I think, is still better off living in the physical world as much as possible, because the digital world is so much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco harder for people to get into in that kind of scenario.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, let me jump in right there, because I would like to echo what you just said.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey A few years ago, I don’t remember what the catalyst moment was for this, but I sat down
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I wrote out, I call it my just-in-case document. And then the idea of this is,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I were to just drop dead spontaneously, like what is the bare minimum amount of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey information that Erin needs to know about things that Erin doesn’t typically manage?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey What is the bare minimum she needs to know in order to continue her life and the kids’ lives
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and continue paying bills and things of that nature. And one of the big things on that document is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sign into 1Password. That’s where all my junk is. But nevertheless, a lot of that is like, here’s who
⏹️ ▶️ Casey carries our insurance. Here’s where our bank account is. She knows some of this stuff. But what if Erin dies, too?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then my parents or somebody could come in and recreate our lives. And not only does that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey document exist, which I think is an extremely smart thing for any family to do.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But additionally, I have a paper copy in our fireproof,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote unquote, safe, which like you said, isn’t really a safe. It’s more of just a fireproof box.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I would like to strongly echo what you said about that. Having some sort of document with the bare
⏹️ ▶️ Casey minimum in order to get your children or your spouse or whatever able to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey continue to live, I really, really encourage you to put that physically somewhere
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in addition to electronically somewhere.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s, legacy planning is a whole different thing of like how do you give people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your passwords to stuff that is online and that’s a whole thing. But anyway, for the purposes of other documents,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not very organized because frankly, I don’t keep many documents. I do have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a paperless lifestyle whenever possible for stuff like bills and crap like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco receipts, things like that. And my strategy for that is I have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a sheet fed scanner Back in my regular life, I have a Fujitsu ScanSnap,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I love. Here in my fake life, I have a Raven scanner, which is okay.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a whole separate topic. The Raven scanner is basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an Android tablet glued inside of a scanner. It’s very strange. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my scanner has software updates, and where like, I’ll have to like, I’ll open
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it up one day to try to scan my electric bill or whatever, And it’ll be like, so we need a software
⏹️ ▶️ Marco update. You know, tap here to do it. And you tap and it has like the little like circle, like finger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cursor when you tap that Android tablets can have. And then it has to do like a software
⏹️ ▶️ Marco update. It has to reboot itself like an Android tablet does. It like, it’s very, it’s, once you realize
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s just an Android tablet, it’s, it becomes, it makes a lot more sense. But the way it works
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so bizarre as a scanner to work that way. And yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this whole, this world of like smart devices that are made, you know, with commodity stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of, it has its downsides. And the downside of this is that it’s basically a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very, very slow, sluggish Android tablet that’s powering this not cheap
⏹️ ▶️ Marco scanner that otherwise scans pretty well, but it’s a very weird and awkward and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sometimes very slow user experience. But anyway, so I honestly, I don’t know if I would recommend
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this product. I use it, but this is not an endorsement or a condemnation, I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel ambivalent towards my Raven scanner. Anyway, so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco paperless lifestyle. If this scanner was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stolen or fell into the bay tomorrow, I would replace it with a ScanSnap,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Fujitsu ScanSnap again. Anyway, paperless. So I basically scan everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to OCRed PDFs so that they are searchable by text,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I dump them into one giant folder. The files are just named by date that I scan them. So it’s just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one giant chronological shoebox of everything that I’ve ever scanned. Because in practice,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hardly ever need to go back and look at these things. So I’ve tried over the years different organizational
⏹️ ▶️ Marco strategies for that, and I’ve never really found it worthwhile to actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco categorize them into file folders and everything else. Like, here’s all the electric bills, here’s all of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the insurance renewals. I’ve never found that level of organization
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worth it or necessary for my scanned documents. Anything that is unscanned,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that originates as an electronic document, things like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco email receipts, I tend to just keep those in my email. My email itself
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a giant document store and it’s all downloaded locally and searchable.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so any kind of important document or confirmation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or information I need probably came through an email at some point.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so oftentimes that’s how I dig things up is I search through my email for this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one email I got 15 years ago or 10 years ago that has this attached PDF that has this receipt
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on it or something. For other types of data, like a lot of times this stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just lives in its originating web service and that’s mostly fine. Like I buy a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of stuff on Amazon, yeah I know, I buy a lot of stuff on Amazon and I can search my past orders
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on Amazon. And so that to me is another place where like that’s a huge searchable history
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the type of you know data or document that is my purchase history. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I need to know when did I buy that hard drive that just is it still under warranty? First thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll do is I’ll look at Amazon history to see when I bought it, and then I’ll know, okay, did I buy it within the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco warranty period or not? So, stuff like that, I tend to have a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff in those few different silos where it originated, and I tend to not move
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff out of those very often, into new silos. If it originates in a silo that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have ongoing access to, I tend to leave it there, because it’s just easier, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as long as I can trust it, it’s gonna be there. but like I’m pretty sure I’m gonna keep buying stuff from Amazon in the future. I’m pretty sure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna keep having email in the future. You know, stuff like, so like, it’s kind of, that’s kind of inherently
⏹️ ▶️ Marco long-term reliable. As for other types of documents, you know, my code and everything, that’s all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like in source control and everything, but that’s a whole different thing. But, you know, other like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other types of like, you know, quote documents that would go like in your documents folder, things like spreadsheets, Word
⏹️ ▶️ Marco processing documents, that I just keep in the documents folder or in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a very small number of subfolders of that. Like every year I have a folder for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my taxes for that year. So it’s like taxes 2021 is the current one. And it lives on my desktop
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the whole year. And then once my taxes are filed for the year, I move it into the documents folder. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I have taxes 2008, taxes 2009, like all my tax documents and everything needed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to support my tax documents. Like that’s that goes in that year’s storage and that’s it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Other than stuff like that, I don’t have a large number of these things. You know, I have a few spreadsheets that I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of update on an ongoing basis. Those live in the documents folder, or I think on iCloud, maybe. That line
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of blurred recently. I have a few things I keep in Dropbox, so I have easy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco access to them no matter what computer I’m on. But otherwise, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really have a lot of organization or strategy to most of this. Most stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco either lives in one of those giant silos that I kind of have ongoing access to, or it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of disorganized in my documents folder somewhere because I don’t have enough documents,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco nor do I access them frequently enough for that mess of a system to be a problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So John, what’s the right way?
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, Marco definitely does the most of this stuff of the three of us. Like he’s talked about his
⏹️ ▶️ John scan, snap and stuff like that. And neither one of us do anything like that. But hearing Marco talk about it, I think my system is
⏹️ ▶️ John very similar to his, except imagine it run by somebody who doesn’t wanna do things electronically. And that
⏹️ ▶️ John person is not me, because my wife does the finances and the paperwork. And I say paperwork
⏹️ ▶️ John because she likes to do things on paper. Whenever
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there’s an option
⏹️ ▶️ John for most of her life where it says, hey, we could send you your bill electronically or you can get a paper version, she always says paper
⏹️ ▶️ John version. Hey, we could pay your bill automatically if you just give us your credit card number, or you can just do
⏹️ ▶️ John it manually every month. Doesn’t manually every month. Like it’s just what she’s comfortable with. She manages all the stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John So who am I to say, you know, you could just set that up to auto pay and it would be fine. The only
⏹️ ▶️ John time I’ve ever won that debate is when we got a new credit card for my business,
⏹️ ▶️ John when I formed my LLC, and one month she forgot to pay it
⏹️ ▶️ John because it wasn’t set up to be automatic. And I said, can I just set this up on auto pay? Because I mean, it was like
⏹️ ▶️ John a $20 bill, right? She’s like, fine, set it up on it. Because so little happens on it that she never
⏹️ ▶️ John thinks to look at it, but she’s the one who wants to manage it. So she does it the way she feels comfortable. And that involves a lot of paper.
⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah, paper things come to the house and they are not scanned in any way.
⏹️ ▶️ John They just stay in paper form. The main sort of document
⏹️ ▶️ John management activity we do is much like Marco described, is basically for tax purposes each year,
⏹️ ▶️ John collecting together receipts and things that we’re gonna deduct as business expenses and stuff like that. And
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s tedious, but we basically do the same system, which is I have on my Mac a folder
⏹️ ▶️ John for each tax year and I put in whenever I buy something that I know is attributable to the business,
⏹️ ▶️ John I make a PDF of the receipt and I stick it in the folder and do all that stuff, right? And then,
⏹️ ▶️ John but since I don’t do the finance stuff over on my wife’s computer, she’s got a similar
⏹️ ▶️ John set of folders and I periodically take my collected things that I’ve been
⏹️ ▶️ John doing and put them into her to process folder for the tax year. So it’s like things that you haven’t processed yet,
⏹️ ▶️ John but she’s got a way that she wants to do it. I just, I organize it the way I want to do it and folder by date by year,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, and I know what the receipts are for. And then periodically dump them into her sort of inbox and then she grinds through them
⏹️ ▶️ John and names them the way she wants. In the end, it’s not that many documents, but it’s a screen full by the end of
⏹️ ▶️ John the year. Like I’m not expensing tons of stuff. But yeah, things like that. Now for
⏹️ ▶️ John almost everything else, like Margo said, email is great for keeping track of stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John because another activity my wife engages in, which is looking at all of our credit card bills
⏹️ ▶️ John and saying, what’s this charge? What’s this charge? What was this? Because you know how things show up on your credit
⏹️ ▶️ John card, and many companies try to warn you about this. Hey, you’re going to get a bill on your credit card. It’s going to say something that’s not going to make any sense.
⏹️ ▶️ John Even though you’re buying your thing from Acme Pet Store, it’s not going to say Acme Pet Store. It’s going to say VNDQXPR
⏹️ ▶️ John or something, asterisk. And so when you see them on a credit card bill, it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John always clear what they are. The easy solution to finding the answer to that question is
⏹️ ▶️ John search for the exact amount in the email. and we both use Gmail, and she’s logged into my
⏹️ ▶️ John Gmail thing or whatever, and if you just search for 1595 in Gmail, and it’ll give
⏹️ ▶️ John you the results sorted by date by default, the top item is whatever that receipt was. It’s instant,
⏹️ ▶️ John it always works, and it answers your question, and then you can say that’s what Acme Pet Store was?
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s really smart. Yeah, so email is, well, I would say what’s smarter is to not worry about
⏹️ ▶️ John the 1595 charge, but
⏹️ ▶️ John really wants to know what every single charge, Like she’s been doing this for our entire
⏹️ ▶️ John married life. And so far, she has not caught a single case of a company like charging
⏹️ ▶️ John us for things that we didn’t actually buy. Like I guess that’s the fear that like somehow just charges
⏹️ ▶️ John are sharp in your credit card. Now I say this and she’s gonna tell me once I get off the air that there was a case sometime
⏹️ ▶️ John where we got double charged or something and she found it. But to my recollection, it’s not a common enough
⏹️ ▶️ John occurrence. But anyway, she deals with, this is how she wants to do it. She wants to know what every charge is, fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John For other documents, like you know my whole backup vortex, I’ve got all of my stuff being backed up in a million different places.
⏹️ ▶️ John My digital stuff is way better protected than the paper stuff. The only reason we have any paper stuff is
⏹️ ▶️ John because A, she wants paper, and B, I forget how many years it is, but
⏹️ ▶️ John you can be audited back to X number of years or something, so you have to, in theory, keep the receipts for that number of years
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. Because we have all this paper, we try to keep a buffer of that number of years, and then we just
⏹️ ▶️ John push off the end and shred, which is another thing that’s a hassle with paper things. You actually shred
⏹️ ▶️ John them if you care about this stuff. Shred off the end of the thing. But, and
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we’re not running a Fortune 500 company in our house.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s not actually that
⏹️ ▶️ John complicated. The amount of actual paper is not that big. For our important documents, passports, driver’s
⏹️ ▶️ John licenses, all that type of stuff, it’s not particularly well protected. Yes, I suppose I do actually have scans
⏹️ ▶️ John of most of those things, but most of the reason I have them is not because I’m carefully preserving them, it’s because online
⏹️ ▶️ John things very often want you to submit something like that, like for insurance purposes or like
⏹️ ▶️ John who knows, you know. If you ever try to do anything with cryptocurrency, they’re always trying to get you to scan like your driver’s license
⏹️ ▶️ John and upload it, which I generally refuse to do. In fact, I was trying to buy a domain name recently and one of those, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John semi-slimy domain name, like registrar watch services, like, hey, that
⏹️ ▶️ John domain name you asked about in 1997, it’s available, do you wanna bid on it? And I always
⏹️ ▶️ John go, sure, I’ll give you 50 bucks. And they say, would you consider 30,000? Like that’s how that conversation
⏹️ ▶️ John always goes. But anyway, this time they were like, you want a bid on this domain name? Like, sure, here you
⏹️ ▶️ John go, 50 bucks, what do you think? And they said, well, your account has been frozen because you
⏹️ ▶️ John need to upload your driver’s license. I’m like, well, goodbye.
⏹️ ▶️ John I suppose there’s probably some fraud related reason why they want all this information, but it’s like, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John want the domain name that much. Anyway, we’re not really particularly obsessive about that
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. If our house burned down, we would lose our passports. we would have to get new driver’s licenses, but in the end, it would
⏹️ ▶️ John be fine. And then important documents being with lawyers is another way you
⏹️ ▶️ John can do it. But honestly, anything that’s really important, I do have in digital form, and that is backed
⏹️ ▶️ John up 20 ways to Sunday. For this question here that Jason had, which gets into more than just digital documents,
⏹️ ▶️ John but also like photos and stuff like that, I would, and we’ve talked about this in the past, I don’t wanna go into too much, but I would definitely
⏹️ ▶️ John recommend, as part of whatever your sort of data backup strategy is, not to just rely
⏹️ ▶️ John entirely on cloud backup. You should have cloud backup because it’s physically distant and it’s generally economical
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s another sort of another factor in your security of like a different thing that would have to fail. But I would suggest
⏹️ ▶️ John very strongly, as annoying as it is, to have local backups of stuff because
⏹️ ▶️ John the main failure mode is probably not gonna be your house burning down, it’s probably gonna be you accidentally hosing something
⏹️ ▶️ John or like a SSD or hard drive going bad, right? So don’t say, I just have
⏹️ ▶️ John my computers and then cloud, that’s not enough. you need something in the middle there, which is a local backup. And I
⏹️ ▶️ John know it’s a pain in the butt. It’s expensive, it’s cumbersome. Where am I gonna keep this local backup? It’s another thing for me to futz with. Do I
⏹️ ▶️ John have to get a Synology now? Do I have to get a tower computer so I can put internal storage? Do I have to have a bunch of SSDs
⏹️ ▶️ John dangling off the end of my computer? I know it’s annoying, but I highly recommend including
⏹️ ▶️ John that tier, that sort of, you know, that tier in your cash hierarchy or your backup thing, because
⏹️ ▶️ John just cloud is not enough. I’m not saying cloud is unreliable, but it’s so distant from you and cloud companies
⏹️ ▶️ John are flaky And the bottom line is it’s just one thing. You need to have another thing. And no two cloud
⏹️ ▶️ John backup companies probably isn’t as good either. And it’s a pain to restore from. It’s very distant from you. Yes,
⏹️ ▶️ John they will send you a hard drive and stuff or whatever, but having it locally gives you much more peace
⏹️ ▶️ John of mind and will let you see the data flowing through more easily in it because you see both
⏹️ ▶️ John the source and the place you’re backing up to. Whereas with the cloud thing, you’re just trusting that you’ll notice
⏹️ ▶️ John if it’s been failing to back up for the past 10 days or some weird problem is causing it to silently
⏹️ ▶️ John fail or whatever, so I would recommend the middle tier there. I would not recommend my system of actual
⏹️ ▶️ John paper filing cabinets and paper bills and stuff like that because it’s too much stuff to forget or whatever, but it just goes to
⏹️ ▶️ John show that defer to the person who is managing this stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John Most people don’t manage their own paperwork sort of equally with their
⏹️ ▶️ John partner, business partner or life partner, just because it’s confusing. So normally
⏹️ ▶️ John one person sort of says, I’m going to be the one to manage the bills. I’ll make sure we pay them and I’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John make sure we don’t double pay them. Whereas both people are equally responsible for the bills. I feel like it’s a situation where
⏹️ ▶️ John an email goes out at work to five people and that just gives everyone an excuse not to do anything about it because it wasn’t addressed to
⏹️ ▶️ John me, right? That’s my advice on managing this. And then whoever is
⏹️ ▶️ John managing this stuff, use whatever, let them use whatever system that they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John most comfortable with. Even if that system seems barbaric to you or whatever, because in the end, they’re doing it and it
⏹️ ▶️ John has to fit their brain and the way they want to do it. And I don’t think, like again,
⏹️ ▶️ John with the possible exception of Marco, who has sort of some continuity of
⏹️ ▶️ John functionality of an application that he sells that we’d want to continue after his death. Most of us, if we die, it’s OK
⏹️ ▶️ John for all of our stuff to just drop on the floor. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John running, again, we’re not running a Fortune 500 company. We’re not responsible for the lives of thousands of people.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right? You know, it’s- I mean, neither is my business.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John True, but I’m saying like, It doesn’t matter that
⏹️ ▶️ John much. What if your family wanted to continue your business as a way of making money? You know what I mean? Like there is continuity
⏹️ ▶️ John of income for the family, as in when you’re gone, that thing could still be a going concern and its
⏹️ ▶️ John value would be damaged by it just suddenly falling over and no one having any idea to bring it back up, how to bring it
⏹️ ▶️ John back up. You know what I mean? Like, and it’s an asset, right? I should probably start commenting my code. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s an asset. Even if you just wanted to sell it or whatever, it loses value if like, Marco died and then Overcast broke and never
⏹️ ▶️ John worked again. Anyway, what I’m saying is that of the three of us, at
⏹️ ▶️ John least you have something like that for me and Casey. If Erin can’t get to your source code, honestly, she’ll live.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right? It’s like, it’s not that big of a deal. And I think that’s true of a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of people’s stuff. Again, passports, like I don’t even know if a digital version of your passport is worth anything. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John is that useful for anything just other than making you feel good? But either way, if our house burns down and we lose our passports,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco we can go get new ones.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like we’re not international travelers constantly and certainly not now, right? So generally I’m chill
⏹️ ▶️ John about the fact that many things in our life are vulnerable to being
⏹️ ▶️ John gone because I don’t have, I don’t even have a fire safe, right? I don’t even have like a fireproof
⏹️ ▶️ John box. Like, yeah, yeah, if our house burns down, boy, we’re losing a lot of stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the way, can we make sure, can we not hear from all like the safe people? Like, cause
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know, I know a fireproof box is different from a safe. I know a fireproof safe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is different from a regular safe. I know these are all very different things. We don’t have to hear about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually researched these things a few years back and discovered, you know, like quite
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how massive and heavy an actual fireproof actual safe is when it’s one thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and all this stuff. We really don’t need to hear the details. Thank you. Thank you for writing in already. I know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you are using that feature in Gmail where you can like unsend the email within in a certain amount of time. Please go back and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unsend the one you sent a half hour ago. We don’t need it. Thank you very much. Thank you.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you need a saltwater proof safe because when the hurricane comes and washes away your house, like the fire is not your problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. The saltwater is gonna leak in and just destroy all the stuff. If you actually care about the
⏹️ ▶️ John physical safety of things like paper and stuff, keep it somewhere else. Like not in your house,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, in someone else’s house, trade with a friend or a relative, rent a storage
⏹️ ▶️ John space. Like what you’re trying to do is say, If there’s a disaster here, at least there won’t also be a disaster
⏹️ ▶️ John there. I mean, as opposed to if a nuclear bomb hits New York City, like your storage facility is probably
⏹️ ▶️ John also gone, but then losing your passports is probably the least of your worries. So I don’t spend too much time
⏹️ ▶️ John worrying about this stuff. We are probably less protected from silly losses than we could be.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’re just playing the odds that our house isn’t going to burn down. And mostly just our main concerns
⏹️ ▶️ John are like pragmatic. come tax time, which is the main time we have to deal with family
⏹️ ▶️ John digital documents, come tax time, can we find all the crap that we need to find to do all the things we need to do
⏹️ ▶️ John and get it filed? Every year it seems like, oh, it’s kind of a hassle or whatever, but like the system
⏹️ ▶️ John that we have is enough to get us through tax time every year, right? And to feel like
⏹️ ▶️ John from week to week and month to month, we are more or less on top of our finances. My wife also does the finances. I think I mentioned
⏹️ ▶️ John this before. She uses You need a budget, which is not pronounced YabNab, but that’s what I call it,
⏹️ ▶️ John which recently moved online. We had used Quicken before that. It mostly had my insistence, but she didn’t like it.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then Quicken 2007 became the latest version for way too long. And then the new Quicken came and it was weird. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John some kind of program to manage your finances to stay on top of, again, whoever’s doing that stuff, if
⏹️ ▶️ John they just want to go to the bank’s website and use that thing, fine. If they want to use YabNab to make a budget
⏹️ ▶️ John and try to stick to it, fine. Whatever. I think it is not
⏹️ ▶️ John as dire as like, you know, when we talk about this stuff in the past, we tend to be preachy about like, oh, back up all
⏹️ ▶️ John your stuff, back up all your photos. I think that is so much more dire than keeping track of all
⏹️ ▶️ John your receipts. Like, if there’s some catastrophe that happens, are you gonna be
⏹️ ▶️ John more sad that you lost five years worth of receipts or all the pictures of your kids? That’s why we harp on like
⏹️ ▶️ John protecting your family photos so much more than we ever talk about, here’s my sophisticated filing
⏹️ ▶️ John system for every restaurant I ever ate on and how much I tipped. So
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I can put it in a spreadsheet
⏹️ ▶️ John and calculate it and show you trends over time.
⏹️ ▶️ John no, that’s not as important as pictures of your kids or pictures of yourselves or anything like that. Like photos
⏹️ ▶️ John are so much more valuable than everything else, which is why at least I personally spend so much more time making sure, and
⏹️ ▶️ John money, making sure all of my sort of precious irreplaceable family
⏹️ ▶️ John memories that are in digital form are massively protected. Meanwhile, my passport’s driver’s license and electric bills are
⏹️ ▶️ John just gonna burn with the house.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, for someone who is so completely inattentive and over the top about your digital stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really want to make fun of you for not having basically any protection for physical things,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but your logic does make sense. John Syracuse says it often does, and yeah, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t entirely blame you. I just wanted to kind of echo a couple of things you said. I am not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey quite as dedicated to paper stuff as Tina, but that dedication
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has only been waning in the last year or two. Uh, I do plug in all of our expenditures
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and things of that nature. Um, I, I do it in former sponsor Banktivity, which has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a native apps for all Apple platforms. Um, I used to use quick in 2007 for years and years and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey years and years, even long after, long after 2007 had gone, come and gone. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I personally like having that feeling of, I would say control, but maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey awareness over where our money is going. I don’t think, yeah, the good news is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are not living, you know, paycheck to paycheck. So it wouldn’t be critical for me to know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, you know, we spent 20 bucks at McDonald’s and that’s put us way over the budget for this month.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And now we might not be able to pay our mortgage. Like there, there was a time that was me. I think I’ve mentioned on the show many times
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that like I would treat myself to one McDonald’s value meal a week when I had first
⏹️ ▶️ Casey started working and being a real adult. And I felt like more than, and actually I think it was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey factual, more than one like $7 McDonald’s meal in a week would, would not financially
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ruin me, but put me in a genuinely bad spot. So, um, anyway, I bring all this up to say, I still like having that awareness.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I still like having that control maybe. Um, and then somebody put in the, in the chat and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think we should bring it up. Uh, former sponsor Backblaze has put together a really good reference
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the three, two, one backup strategy, which I think is a really good way of looking at how
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to back up your digital stuff. So, So what is this?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey How does this work? It’s three different copies, two of which can be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey local but different things, like different drives or like CD and hard drive or whatever, and at least
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one copy that is not in your house. And for stuff like pictures and whatnot, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you, me, and probably Marco as well are easily achieving this. For other things, perhaps not.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But for stuff like you had said, John, like pictures that you really, really, really don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to lose that you can’t get back from anyone else. I can’t stress enough, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, be it backblaze or someone else, try to figure out this, how to do a three, two, one set up for yourself.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the flip side of the picture things, by the way, is, you know, one of the, one of the reasons that I’ve spent an ungodly
⏹️ ▶️ John amount of money printing photo books from Apple photos and Mimeo and, and now
⏹️ ▶️ John photos is gone now is because it’s kind of the reverse backup. If I have a digital
⏹️ ▶️ John disaster and somehow my 19 copies of my
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco photos all get to race
⏹️ ▶️ John from the internet, probably through ransomware or some other terrible malicious thing. At least
⏹️ ▶️ John I have now, essentially, I have several feet of physical photo
⏹️ ▶️ John albums in the form of photo books. Several
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unit of measure for pictures.
⏹️ ▶️ John measured by shelf space of these books, sort of lining my shelf. It’s maybe like three feet, maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, and I try not to calculate the price when I look at that because these books are so expensive. But you
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have to do it that way. You could just like making prints, making photo prints of your digital things is a reverse
⏹️ ▶️ John backup of your digital stuff. And now I will, granted, I would be devastated if I lost all my digital photos because I have 130,000 of them.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s probably maybe a thousand photos in those books,
⏹️ ▶️ John but a thousand of my best photos is better than zero photos. So, and plus making physical
⏹️ ▶️ John copies of your photos is a good idea. Obviously we have pictures and picture frames around the house and everything too, but having actual albums
⏹️ ▶️ John where you just print your favorite pictures at Walgreens at the end of the year and stick them in an
⏹️ ▶️ John album. Like just something minimal like that doesn’t have to be fancy, doesn’t have to do these silly photo books that I pay for.
⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s nice to have that as a backup and it’s also nice to have that as a thing that you can just leaf through. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John I was, one of the gifts I give my parents frequently is, you know, photo albums of pictures of their grandkids,
⏹️ ▶️ John which they appreciate. I do wonder how much they look at them, but I do know for a fact that they’re not like perusing
⏹️ ▶️ John my digital pictures online, even though they technically could in various ways. So I’m hoping
⏹️ ▶️ John that, you know, hey, I give you this photo and you flip through it when you get it and then you put it on your shelf, but maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John you sit down on the couch one day and see the book and take it out and flip through it again. It’s nice to
⏹️ ▶️ John have physical copies of your photos for people who aren’t so connected
⏹️ ▶️ John with digital life that they routinely flip through photos on their phone or look at their little memories
⏹️ ▶️ John from Apple. Like some people do that or even have digital picture frames or whatever, but not everyone does that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not everyone is accustomed to that. And even if you are, having physical copies is nice as well.
Casey’s epiphany
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I alluded to earlier that I had a bit of an epiphany with regard
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Apple One. And this came because I got my first
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bill for Apple TV Plus. And we are working through the second season of For All Mankind,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which we are on the penultimate episode, no spoilers, but oh boy, things just got serious.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m very excited to continue watching that. Ted Lasso comes out in just a couple of weeks,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so you bet that I’m not canceling Apple TV Plus anytime soon. But I got this $5
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bill for Apple One, or I’m sorry, for Apple TV Plus, and I’ve been getting $10 a month bills
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Apple Fitness Plus, and I’ve been getting, I think, $10 a month bills for iCloud Storage.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it occurred to me as I got this new $5 bill, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really approaching the amounts of money I would probably be spending on Apple One, or whatever they’re,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s what it’s called, right? Apple One, the like, get everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, that’s right, it’s called Apple One because there’s more than one plan, that makes total sense.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, totally. So anyway, so it occurred to me that, you know, if I’m spending, what is that,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like 25 bucks, 25 bucks a month on various Apple services,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey why wouldn’t I just pony up the extra five bucks to get a whole ton more iCloud storage,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe finally put us on a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco family plan and give me
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iCloud photo library
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple music, which I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I care about because I am a devout Spotify person. You please don’t at me. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it occurred to me,
⏹️ ▶️ John the ultimate luxury of getting out of music when you use Spotify is the same reason I have Spotify and Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John music is just being able to follow other people’s links and hear music.
⏹️ ▶️ John Cause people, because people, the Spotify people think everyone has Spotify and the Apple music people think everyone has Apple music. And
⏹️ ▶️ John when people send links to songs, I don’t use either one of those services, but I pay for both of them.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Uh, So I can follow people’s links. And
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not the main I mean, my, my, my daughter is into Spotify. So I’m basically paying for her and Apple Music.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m I get it because it’s part of Apple one, I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Well, and so there’s a really great just very quickly, there’s a really great website, I think it’s called song whip.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If that’s not right, I’ll put in the show notes. But it can, I’m sure this is not the only one, but it’s one that’s been very reliable
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me that will let you go back and forth between different services. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, you can put in a Spotify link, and you’ll get out a more generic link that you can
⏹️ ▶️ John Isn’t it, this service is kind of like song.link, which I think might be
⏹️ ▶️ John spyware, malware, I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ John But the great function, the function of these websites is, the problem I just described,
⏹️ ▶️ John like hey, if you want to link to something, it just might be natural for you to give a Spotify link, but then if you actually think about
⏹️ ▶️ John it for a second, like oh, but what about the people who don’t have Spotify, how are they going to listen to this thing? Well, I don’t know what service everyone subscribes
⏹️ ▶️ John to, So how do I just link to a song? These meta sites exist that say if you want to link to a song
⏹️ ▶️ John Here link to this web page on our site and this web page will say listen
⏹️ ▶️ John to the song in huge list of services So then you land on the web page and then you just tap on whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John service that you actually pay for if any of them And maybe they also have like a free YouTube link or whatever And so,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know in the context of Twitter or whatever if you want to link to a song You link to one of those sites
⏹️ ▶️ John I used to use song.link because I saw people using it, but I think it might be shady. I have seen the song whip one, and that’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John context I’ve seen it, where it’s just a landing page with 20 links to the same song, which I think is a great
⏹️ ▶️ John thing, and I would love a more reliable, like if
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple did something like that, obviously Apple’s not gonna do it, it’s not gonna link to Spotify, but like some company that I trusted not
⏹️ ▶️ John to turn that link into terrible malware 10 years down the line would be great, but in the meantime, I have used those
⏹️ ▶️ John things sometimes when tweeting. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway, so it occurred to me, you know what, it’s probably, it’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about time that I start actually taking action on this and not just kicking this can further and further and further
⏹️ ▶️ Casey down the road. So I haven’t done anything yet, but to recap,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the current setup is I have my own Apple ID and my own store account.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Erin has her own Apple ID, but she is riding on my app
⏹️ ▶️ Casey store account. So the good news is she doesn’t have like a bunch of her own purchases and things like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re all our purchases or really strictly speaking, they’re my purchases. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I think it’ll be relatively straightforward. He says famous last words as he knocks
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on wood, um, that in order to convert mine to be like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the family, I don’t know, Maven or boss, I don’t know what the correct term is in Apple parlance,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but family organizer, if you will. will, uh, and then just add Aaron’s like, I message
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ID, her, her standard Apple ID to that new family. And then hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’ll work out. But if you’re in this situation, you have this exact situation where you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey had the, like the, the, the complete picture, Apple ID
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or your spouse, your spouse did. And then the other one of you joined a new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey family. Like if you’re in this scenario and you’ve lived this. Only if you’ve lived exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this, please reach out via email or Twitter and let me know what you’ve done because sometime in the next couple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of weeks, I think I’m going to try to take the plunge. And so that means I’ll do, you know, a family plan finally
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’ll give Erin iCloud backups, which she hasn’t had in forever. I don’t think it’ll give me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iCloud backups potentially because I’ll finally have the space for it. And then the next step is to get more,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more likely than not to get some big, huge honking SSD to put all my pictures on. and I don’t even remember
⏹️ ▶️ Casey how much space my pictures take up, but I don’t think I want to sacrifice all that space on my iMac
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for reasons I can’t even put my finger on. So if I don’t just put them on my iMac, then I’m gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Casey need some sort of big hard drive to put them, or big SSD to put them on, which is going to be several hundred dollars.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So suddenly I’ve gone from $15 a month to several hundred dollars and $30 a month. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s what happens these days. But yeah, I think it’s time.
⏹️ ▶️ John You should listen to ATP because we talked about the exact scenario many shows ago. I did the thing you’re describing.
⏹️ ▶️ John the Apple ID that owned everything in the entire family, just like you do now. And my wife had an Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John ID, but she’d never purchased anything on it. And we made a family and I became the family organizer and my wife joined the family.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then we had kids and they joined the family. Like, it’ll be fine. We talked about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. I remember talking, I couldn’t remember what the details were with either. To be honest, I thought it was Marco that had the same situation.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, you could potentially screw it up if you do something weird during it. But I was saying like the scenario you just
⏹️ ▶️ John described, I did that. That’s exactly what I did. So far it’s been fine. Now, the other weird thing about it
⏹️ ▶️ John is we continue to purchase things through MyAppleID. We don’t have to. My wife could
⏹️ ▶️ John purchase things on her Apple ID and sometimes does, you know, but in general, just
⏹️ ▶️ John for simplicity’s sake, I continue to buy most of the stuff on MyAppleID because everyone has access
⏹️ ▶️ John to it. You know, if I buy it and, you know, in-app purchases are, I think you can opt into
⏹️ ▶️ John that or whatever and it’s changed over the years, but in general, I buy it and then everyone in the family
⏹️ ▶️ John has access to it. You don’t have to keep doing that. You can switch after you do the family to doing individual purchases, and
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s fine too. And the kids sometimes purchase their own stuff when they get like gift cards for iTunes or whatever. But
⏹️ ▶️ John as we said on past shows, it works surprisingly well.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’ve had, I mean, jeez, I’ve been doing Apple Family Sharing for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco years and years and years. I mean, I think within a few months of them introducing it, I think my whole
⏹️ ▶️ Marco family was in it. And it’s been great. I’ve had no problems. Like, you know, Tiff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I are the adults on the account. I’m pretty sure us using family sharing predated Adam
⏹️ ▶️ Marco existing, but once Adam existed, he was added to the account. Like, it’s been totally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. And there’s all sorts of great things, like with the parental, like, ask for permission
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for in-app purchases or for screen time extensions on limits and stuff like that. It’s fantastic.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It works very, very well. And I commend Apple for getting that really right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really early on because it’s been great.
Sponsor: Linode
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Linode, my favorite place to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco run servers. Go to linode.com slash ATP and see why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Linode has been voted the top infrastructure as a service provider by both G2 and TrustRadius.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco From their award winning support 24-7, 365 offered to every level of user regardless
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of your plan size, to their ease of use and their setup, it’s clear why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco developers like me have been trusting Linode for projects both big and small since 2003. I think I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been there since about 2010 or so. So I’ve been there a while.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can deploy your entire application stack with Linode’s one click app marketplace,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or build it all from scratch and manage everything yourself with supported centralized tools like Terraform,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do it all yourself just raw with their API and with you know, your own Linux setup. That’s what I do. And it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just it’s wonderful. I’ve been with a lot of hosts. Linode is by far my favorite one. They have the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco best price to performance ratio for all their compute instances, including their specialty plans,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco GPU instances, high high RAM memory, dedicated CPUs, as well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as their block storage service, managed Kubernetes support, and their upcoming bare metal services
⏹️ ▶️ Marco release. Linode makes cloud computing fast, simple and affordable, allowing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you to focus on your project, not your infrastructure. Visit linode.com slash
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP and create a free account with either your Google account, your GitHub account, your email address, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get $100 in credit. Once again, linode.com slash ATP.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you so much to Linode for hosting all my servers and for sponsoring our show.
#askatp: Desk chairs
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s move on and do some Ask ATP. I don’t know how much we’re going to get through, but Carlos Luis Portillo writes, Portillo,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually would suppose, what is the latest on y’all’s desk chairs? A few years back, Marco talked about his
⏹️ ▶️ Casey experience with the Embody and John had just purchased one. Have any of y’all tried anything new
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or is the Embody still the one to get? I will start because I’m extremely boring and simple. I still have a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey gifted desk chair that I am sitting on that is fine and I probably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey should get a better one, but I’m cheap and I haven’t. So that’s my story. Same as it ever was.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, what do you got going on?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still like the Embody for most desk usage.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, for the beach, I got an Aeron. I had a couple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of summers here where I just got like a cheap, you know, Amazon Basics, whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And because, you know, it’s the beach, you know, there’s a lot of moisture and heat here, I didn’t wanna like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ruin a nice chair with that, but once I started spending longer times
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out here in the summertime, having the Amazon basic share was killing my back, like I noticed the difference,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it sucked, it’s fine for whatever, you know, 50 bucks that it cost,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s fine for temporary short term use, or you know, not very many hours in a day,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I noticed the difference when I was sitting in that for my full-time job.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I upgraded to, I wanted to get a Herman Miller chair for here. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know the Embody is great, but because it’s so hot and humid here, the Embody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a lot more fabric that’s thicker and touching your body compared to the Aeron, which is very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool and mesh-like. So I went Aeron for this. I’d used them back in my days
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I worked for actual other people. And so I knew that Aerons were good for me and they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fit me well. And yeah, so I went with that and it’s great. Again, it’s Herman Miller,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s expensive, but it’s very well made. It has a, I think 10 or 12
⏹️ ▶️ Marco year warranty and it’s awesome. So no regrets.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I mean, one of the advantages of buying a horrendously expensive chair is that you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have to think about chairs for a while. So I’m still using the Embody. I liked it when I bought it, I still like it now. It is the
⏹️ ▶️ John same as when I bought it. That’s why you spend a lot of money on a chair, I suppose. And my wife had the Steelcase
⏹️ ▶️ John Gesture I have to say, despite the fact that she liked that chair better than this one, it is not held up as well. It has
⏹️ ▶️ John more creaks and more things that are, you know, wearing a little bit on that chair.
⏹️ ▶️ John The creak’s really annoying because we spent a lot of money for that gesture and I don’t want anything to be creaking. And then there’s like this
⏹️ ▶️ John plastic panel that keeps like popping off that I have to tuck back in, whereas the Embody
⏹️ ▶️ John is like the day I got it. Like it shows no wear, it does not make any noises, there’s no extra
⏹️ ▶️ John play or slop in any portion of it. Yeah, so, but
⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t mean that you should get an embody like remember what we did with the chairs I tried to do as much research as I could I went to stores
⏹️ ▶️ John and sat in lots of different chairs and then we bought two different chairs hoping that one of us would like one at least
⏹️ ▶️ John one of us would like one then we could return the other one and just so happens we got lucky that my wife liked the gesture and I like this
⏹️ ▶️ John one so hey we just we’re all set we didn’t have to return anything but you honestly you have to sit in chairs
⏹️ ▶️ John with your body ideally for longer than five seconds in the store but at least for five seconds
⏹️ ▶️ John in the store because I went to lots of these fancy ergonomic chair stores and sat in a whole bunch of chairs and you
⏹️ ▶️ John could tell sometimes no, this one doesn’t fit my body or this one’s a maybe or whatever. So don’t just buy the
⏹️ ▶️ John embody because you hear a bunch of podcasters got it, at least of which is because it’s so expensive. You really have
⏹️ ▶️ John to like this chair to you know, do that. But you should get to Marcos point a good chair that you like
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s comfortable for you. And yes, money is somewhat of a proxy for durability and comfort. But
⏹️ ▶️ John not always like there’s lots of very expensive of chairs that I sat in that I would be miserable in, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John So don’t just buy based on price and don’t just buy because you hear us talk about something but please do buy a
⏹️ ▶️ John decent chair that fits you well. My chair that I had prior to this, as we discussed
⏹️ ▶️ John was a $250 chair, which was at the time I bought it, it was the horrendously expensive
⏹️ ▶️ John chair of the 20 something John, right? Cause that was a lot of money for me when I was, you know
⏹️ ▶️ John making a lot less money in my very first job out of college and living in Georgia or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that chair was not a high-quality chair, but hey $250 in 1998 like that’s you know I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know what that translates to but it’s not a cheap chair. It’s not a $50 chair And that one did
⏹️ ▶️ John slowly deteriorating get creaky or whatever But I was glad that I spent that money on that because I was gonna be
⏹️ ▶️ John working from home at that time and I didn’t want A $50 chair the $250 chair
⏹️ ▶️ John lasted me until what you know just a couple years ago so definitely get a a decent
⏹️ ▶️ John chair. Spend a little bit more money than you think you should spend, but don’t necessarily buy the specific fancy
⏹️ ▶️ John chair that a bunch of podcasters you listen to bought.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, moving right along.
#askatp: Camera ingest workflow
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Stephen Kim writes, I’m thinking about getting a dedicated camera. My biggest gripe with this kind of photo taking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey process is the ingest process. Oh, don’t even get me started.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I connect the SD to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my M1 iMac and then go through the photos in Finder, deleting the bad shots and then importing the rest of photos.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is sounding all too familiar. The problem is previewing a photo in Finder. These are not instant.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s an ever so slight lag going from one photo to the next. The Photos app itself is better, so I can import these photos and prune
⏹️ ▶️ Casey them there. But it feels wasteful to import a bunch of photos that will automatically start uploading to the cloud when I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know a vast majority of them are bad shots and are going to be deleted. It’s like I wrote this. I’m curious
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to know what each of you do when taking photos from your big cameras and ingest them into your photo library. That’s lowercase
⏹️ ▶️ Casey photo library because this is what Stephen wrote. That’s lowercase photo library because I believe Casey still needs to switch over
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to iCloud photo library. Well, look at what we just talked about.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have talked on and off about my photo ingest process for a while, but in broad strokes, it’s kind of sort of what you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about. I go through an SD card using Finder. I don’t love
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, especially when I’m loading RAWs, especially when I’m doing it on anything but my iMac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t tend to keep very many RAW photos. It’s only things that I think are like really, really fantastic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey shots, but I shoot in JPEG and RAW just in case. I come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey used a RAW photo in the seven years I’ve had a big camera, but…
⏹️ ▶️ John This is why you have 1.2 terabytes of photos.
⏹️ ▶️ John have still have less than a terabyte of photo, I have way more photos than you, and you know why? No RAWs,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve got a RAW problem. I think you’re right.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a cream for that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, Lordy. Anyways, so yeah, so I get them down to what I think is reasonable
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the SD card. Then I use an app called Geotag, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sufficient. I don’t love it, but it works in order to geotag the photos
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that have come in off the big camera because it’s really important to me to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey geographic information on those photos because it’s not unusual for me to look up things by where they were taken.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I use geotag to tag them to at least an approximation of where they were taken. And then
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I use my bespoke app that I wrote that is not going to be open source because the code sucks.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not going to be for sale because it sucks. But it does work for me. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s the thing that files it away on my Synology into folders
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for years, folders for months, and then a, what is it, ISO, whatever, whatever. So it’s 2021-07-07, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey then the time after that. It’s not great. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey love it. I don’t know what I’m going to do when I get to using iCloud Photo Library.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess I would import to the Synology and then drag from the Synology
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into Photos, which which is super convoluted and weird, which is part of the reason I never used iCloud Photo Library, but here we are.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I don’t know, it’s wonky. Marco, I’ve given you first shot for the last several. So John, what are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you doing these days?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I’m speaking to Steven, but I’m also speaking to Casey here.
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know why either one, well, I know why Casey is. Importing into the Finder
⏹️ ▶️ John when you’re planning on putting in photos, don’t do that. Just import directly into Photos. If there’s one thing that Photos
⏹️ ▶️ John actually does a reasonable job at is imports. It has a separate dedicated section showing your photos
⏹️ ▶️ John organized by when you imported them, which is essential for organizing because they’re not necessarily
⏹️ ▶️ John the order that they were taken in. There’s not date order because you might be importing from multiple cameras. And anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John important to photos. Yes, I understand like, oh, I import them, but I’m not gonna keep most of them and I don’t wanna waste time uploading
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Don’t worry about it. That’s what the computer is there for. Just delete the ones you don’t want. If that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey empathy for the computer, John.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I can tell you that the upload speed, especially if you don’t have gigabit fiber, like I do, but
⏹️ ▶️ John even if you do, you’re gonna probably be able to go through them faster than your computer can upload them,
⏹️ ▶️ John just because photos is lackadaisical about getting around to pushing your stuff up or whatever. But even if it doesn’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine. Like I swear it’s fine. And sometimes it’ll save your butt because you’ll be like, oh, I delete, I
⏹️ ▶️ John want this one, this one. And then you’ll go through it and you realize, you know what, I thought I had more angles in that
⏹️ ▶️ John one shot and even though I picked the one I like, I actually would like those ones back. Guess what, look in your recently deleted things and
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be in there. And if it’s not in recently deleted, might be on another computer recently deleted because it got uploaded.
⏹️ ▶️ John But don’t worry about it. Like it’s the whole point of a cloud library. Just import into photos, sort in photos,
⏹️ ▶️ John delete in photos, they’ll go into recently deleted 30 days or whatever later, they’ll get purged from recently deleted.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like it takes care of itself. That’s why you want a photo library. That’s why you don’t want a hand
⏹️ ▶️ John organized shoebox of files like KZ has. And guess what? Photos does a pretty good
⏹️ ▶️ John job of previewing images quickly. Like don’t use the finder and Quick Look as your way of
⏹️ ▶️ John going through photos. It’s just, no. And by the way, once you get into any kind of workflow with
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Photos or literally any other program that manages photos, you’ll get into a nice workflow of
⏹️ ▶️ John hitting the period key to mark thing as a fave or knowing the keyboard shortcuts to quickly crop
⏹️ ▶️ John or do whatever or applying adjustments to multiple photos or tagging things or
⏹️ ▶️ John getting into a workflow with an actual dedicated photos app is way, way better than using the Finder. Please stop
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sorry dad. Alright Marco, what do you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco got? So in an ideal world, I can see a pretty good argument for shooting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco RAW plus JPEG. And the reason why is that in most cases you would just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco import the JPEG and leave the RAW alone. And the idea would be that you would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go through your JPEGs and you would pick and choose the ones you like best and you would be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to tell pretty quickly, are there any of these that I’m going to need to or want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to edit to such a degree that the raw would be beneficial. So am I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco making like large changes to the color temperature or color balance, or do I need to pull a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole lot of detail out of the shadows or highlights? And you can tell that pretty quickly, like in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your first pass going through them, like, am I really gonna need the raw for this ever? And for the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco few that you do, keep those, for all the rest of the ones that you don’t, get rid of the raws and then you just have all the JPEGs.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then put those into, you know, Apple Photos for long-term storage,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco after maybe sending them through something like Lightroom for like the raw tweaking and everything, okay. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I would do in an ideal world. In the real world, I basically never use big cameras
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anymore, in part because this process is so cumbersome and I sucked so badly at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco having any kind of discipline to actually do it. So in reality, what I did for a while was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to occasionally shoot photos on a nice big camera, see how awesome they were, import them into photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as RAW, never do anything with them really, forget to ever pick through them,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then eventually I would forget about them, and then there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this massive 30 gig block of photos from this day sitting in my photo
⏹️ ▶️ Marco library forever, taking up space on all my devices forever. I would have duplication
⏹️ ▶️ Marco problems, where I would want to edit the RAWs in Lightroom, which I now, now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what is now known as Lightroom Classic, you know, old Lightroom. I’d want to edit them there because that had the better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco raw editor of anything I’d used. But then I’d want to like actually have my photo library
⏹️ ▶️ Marco live in iCloud photo library so everything could be in one place and the iPhone could be, you know, automatically included
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that and everything. So I would, I would ideally edit in Lightroom and then ship everything over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Photos app and then delete them out of my Lightroom, whatever. In practice, didn’t do that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right either. In practice, I would just have two copies of everything and not know, can I safely delete this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from here? Is this my only copy of this photo? Am I gonna have three or zero copies of this photo that I’m trying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have one copy of? It was a mess. And so the reality is, I just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t use big cameras anymore for multiple reasons, but this was a big one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I just never really nailed this process. I was always
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sloppy about it and I would always have all the best intentions and very ambitious ideas of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I would do, and then what I would do in real life was very different and inferior and much lower
⏹️ ▶️ Marco effort and sloppier. I actually, I know this is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the time to wedge us in, but hey, it’s our show. I think it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be really interesting to consider the idea, I know this would never actually happen, but just to consider
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the idea, what if Apple made a dedicated camera? Now I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know why they don’t. I know that basically the phone is their dedicated camera in addition to being a phone,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that it’s already this $1,000 thing that we upgrade every few years, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it takes great pictures and uses all their AI and everything. But wow, can you imagine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how amazing it would be if you could give Apple’s silicon
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and integration benefits to a device that could have bigger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco glass and bigger sensors? Can you imagine what it could do? Look at what it does with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco little tiny garbage glass and little tiny garbage sensors that you can fit in the phone and just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make it the size of a point and shoot. I’m not even saying make it like a giant SLR or even mirrorless.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Obviously, Apple doesn’t even need that much physical space for their stuff to make it amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just make it like the size of like a Sony RX100 series thing. Imagine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they could do with that. I recognize that’s not the world that we live in, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they would ever do that, that would be such a dream setup of like, imagine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Apple makes a camera that just uploads to your photo library like a phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That would be just automatically, you just take the pictures and a few seconds later they’re there. Oh my God, that would be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredible. And I think that’s part of the reason why iPhones are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s camera for the most part. Like it’s not only is it always with you, and not only is it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a better camera now than most cameras most people can buy that are operated in most people’s hands.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But also, what do you wanna do when you take a picture? You might wanna share it somewhere. You might wanna send it to somebody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or post it on Instagram or something. That’s such a common thing, what’s the next step you wanna do with this picture?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And when you’re working with a regular non-phone camera, that process
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so cumbersome and heavy and time-consuming and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco data-consuming. And it’s so easy to basically fall out of it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I did. So my answer to this question is I don’t have a process
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to ingest photos from my big camera to my photo library because I no longer even do
⏹️ ▶️ John It sounds like you never really had much of a process. You had
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco an idea of a process,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you weren’t actually executing on it. I would not recommend trying to use Lightroom and photos. Like I
⏹️ ▶️ John realized I kind of skipped over like what my process is. My process is I take pictures with my big camera, I connect my camera
⏹️ ▶️ John to my computer with USB and import the photos into Photos. And I only shoot in JPEG. That’s it, that’s the whole process.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like there is no importing into another app, there’s no manual organization. The new
⏹️ ▶️ John camera does have a geotagging app. I’m not sure if it’s working. I think it might be, but in the
⏹️ ▶️ John as much as Casey about the geotagging integration. If I did, I would try harder to get this weird Sony app
⏹️ ▶️ John to work. Like I can look at the picture and more or less tell where it is. But
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, that’s my workflow. And I’ve talked about how annoying it is that I have to import my phone pictures
⏹️ ▶️ John into my wife’s library, she owns a library, but that’s a problem that no one has solved as far as I’m aware, and
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m willing to deal with that annoyance in the hopes
⏹️ ▶️ John that someday Apple will remedy this in exchange for using what for me has been a very reliable system
⏹️ ▶️ John of maintaining my photo library. I’ve printed books from it, back from back when it was called iPhoto,
⏹️ ▶️ John it lets me organize my stuff, the minimal amount of editing that I do I can do within the application. I have
⏹️ ▶️ John complaints about the application, but in general it has, the trend, although it It has been very bumpy with
⏹️ ▶️ John a big dip when they iOS-ified everything. It has been positive over time, and
⏹️ ▶️ John I keep expecting someday Apple Photos to just totally fall over and fail me, and then I’ll have to find some new solution, but that
⏹️ ▶️ John day hasn’t come yet. It’s just always teetering on the edge of falling over from my, like I said, 130, 140,000 photos.
⏹️ ▶️ John There’s some raws mixed in there, but generally not that
⏹️ ▶️ John many, mostly because I don’t wanna end up in a situation where my photos can’t fit, because I do want my photos
⏹️ ▶️ John on the main hard drive, the main thing that I backup. I don’t want it to be a separate thing. So I don’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John if I took everything in RAW, this would be, you know, terabytes, right? But because they’re mostly JPEGs with
⏹️ ▶️ John a smattering of RAWs thrown in, I’m able to have a huge number of photos and not take up that much room.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it really does make a difference. Like Marco said, you know, when I first got a camera that shot RAW, I did a bunch of RAW shooting
⏹️ ▶️ John and I saw what this would look like if you do this, at the volume I take pictures, and it’s just too
⏹️ ▶️ John much, right? not just the processing over there, but just the plain like, how much space is this taking
⏹️ ▶️ John up on disk? And it makes you be so much more brutal about deleting stuff. I prefer
⏹️ ▶️ John in my ingestion flow to mostly keep anything that is not, you know, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll keep the seven different versions of the same picture unless they’re out of focus or something or whatever, but I’ll keep them just because, hey, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John JPEGs, it’s really not that big. I’m not as brutal as I would be if I had RAWs, I really, really want to narrow it down.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then, so that’s my ingest flow and my outgest, I don’t know, the outward
⏹️ ▶️ John flow, like again, I had some friends visit recently and we hadn’t seen them in a while. Took a whole bunch of pictures that
⏹️ ▶️ John day on my big camera, connected my big camera over the cable to my computer, imported into
⏹️ ▶️ John photos, pick, delete, crop, edit, chucked a bunch into a temporary folder,
⏹️ ▶️ John shared to my shared photo library, everybody sees them, done. It’s like, you know, 15 minutes worth of activity.
⏹️ ▶️ John Then that includes also importing from my phone, which involves connecting my phone to my computer with a wire,
⏹️ ▶️ John importing and image capture because photos is broken, dragging it into photos, but they all just go into photos,
⏹️ ▶️ John organize, pick, crop, select, shared photo album, share, done. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a privilege I have as someone who’s like, relatives all use iPhones and can see all the photos,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you know, either way, like it is a, the all Apple, all
⏹️ ▶️ John JPEG, straightforward workflow, even if you have both a dedicated camera
⏹️ ▶️ John and a bunch of iPhones, can work and it’s reasonable. please avoid the finder and please,
⏹️ ▶️ John please don’t try to use Lightroom and photos at the same time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, does Tiff ever use the big camera, her big camera, or y’all’s big camera?
⏹️ ▶️ John uses it all the time. I see that like part of Marco’s retirement from fancy
⏹️ ▶️ John cameras is suddenly Tiff has access to all the cameras.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I was surprised when I saw her using
⏹️ ▶️ John the Sony in a recent, some social thing. I was like, oh, she’s not using the Canon for these things.
⏹️ ▶️ John She needs some better long lenses for the whale pictures though.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s true. You don’t realize how long it is. So,
⏹️ ▶️ John I know how far you are from the beach and I know where that whale is, but I’m just saying like. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens is the Sony 200 to 600 and we have a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 2X teleconverter on it to bring it to 1200, which does also drop off tons of light
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and makes the photos, I mean, it’s not a super sharp lens to begin with.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they’re plenty bright, but they’re very soft.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s yeah, and that’s part, it is part of the lens problem. Like if you look at the reviews of this lens,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not amazing, even though it is massive and it’s overall a high quality lens, but just serving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 200 to 600 range with any degree of super sharpness is not an easy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing to do. And then also just stabilization at that range, it has image
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stabilization in the lens and in the camera body.
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re not on a tripod?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, usually it’s resting on the railing of the deck or something like that. No, on your tripod.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even with that, it’s a significant challenge to just stabilize
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. So it’s certainly a challenge getting those pictures
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be good. And most of it is not, most of it would not be improved
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by like an even more expensive lens. Like that’s actually not the problem here.
⏹️ ▶️ John be improved by a tripod though. Possibly, yes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what is her workflow? Do you know, Marco? Because if she’s taking shots with the big camera constantly, she’s got to have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some sort of fix for this problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco She uses her computer like in import stuff, But the first thing she usually does is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco take a picture with her phone of the viewfinder on the camera displaying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the picture that she wants to post on Instagram and post that first, because it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco faster. Because otherwise, it’s like, all right, well, okay, now I have to bring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the SD card to my computer, plug in the dongle, find the dongle, or plug in or connect the camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a USB-C cable. All right, so it’s like, then do the whole import thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get it into photos or whatever, or Adobe Bridge, or whatever editing thing she wants to
⏹️ ▶️ John think she still uses Bridge last time I talked to her about this, was granted it was a little while ago.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, it’s a cumbersome process, you know, as we’ve just been talking about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, you know, usually she will get it into her photo library within a day or two, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very different from like, oh my God, I just shot this amazing picture, I wanna post this on Instagram right now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or send this to somebody right now, like an iMessage. So it’s, you know, I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that second step is so often like, oh my God, I just took
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this amazing picture, I wanna do something with it on my phone right now. You know, usually it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco showing someone, whether it’s a lot of someones through a social media thing or whether you’re messaging it to,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, your partner or whatever, like you just, you wanna show it to someone. And it’s so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco often that that involves being on your phone so that the process of just getting the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera to give the picture to your phone somehow, usually having to involve a computer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or some kind of awful app from the camera manufacturer. Like it’s such a cumbersome process
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and nothing has ever made it better. Like nothing, like all the different, you know, Wi-Fi
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cards and direct Wi-Fi connections that the cameras have sometimes that can be controlled
⏹️ ▶️ Marco through their apps and everything, they’re all garbage. They’re all cumbersome, clunky,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco terrible, fragile, and slow. believe me, I’ve used many of these things.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re terrible. And so that’s why I’m saying, I would just love if Apple just made a camera
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would just upload directly to your iCloud photo library, whatever it took. That would be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredible. But the answer is, they do make that. It’s called the iPhone. And that’s it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if that’s not what you want, or
⏹️ ▶️ John it- It doesn’t come with any good lenses.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, yeah, exactly. That’s the problem. Ha ha ha. Someday,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco someday maybe, Maybe that’ll be Schiller’s project on the roof is he’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco finally getting Apple to release. Because, I mean, look, Apple likes charging $5,000 for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really boutique expensive high-end things. Look at what people like Sony or higher
⏹️ ▶️ Marco end, look at what Leica charges for their little mirrorless or fixed lens point and shoots.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple could do something amazing in that market for like 2,000, 3,000 bucks. Oh my God, imagine what they could do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it would have all the advantages of, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco being able to be integrated with your phone somehow. But I know the reality for so many
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons. I know that that’s really a pipe dream, they’re never gonna do that. But one can dream
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in pipes. What is a pipe dream? Is it a dream in pipes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or of pipes or containing pipes? I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that you’ve got me confused by talking about it. The way it’s phrased is normally it’s like a dream that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but pipes happen all the time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh God, we’re so sheltered. So Wikipedia for Pipe Dream, very, very bottom. Wild dreams
⏹️ ▶️ Casey induced by inhaling from an opium pipe. There
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John go. Wow, we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all way too straight edge.
⏹️ ▶️ John The main association I had is the video game, which I really loved. That was a great game. Have you ever heard of Pipe Dream? No.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you absolutely do remember Pipe Dream, you just don’t remember the name. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like a grid and you get to put tiles on them that have pipes, right? and then eventually water’s gonna start
⏹️ ▶️ John flowing. So you get, it’s like pieces drop and it’s like, oh, I have a horizontal pipe and a vertical pipe and a T pipe
⏹️ ▶️ John and an X pipe, and you have to just put them anywhere on the board before the water starts flowing. And once the water starts flowing,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve hopefully made a pipe sequence so the water won’t come out. Oh, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a great game. I would have known about that before I knew about the other meaning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John of pipe dream. The opium pipe, yes. It was,
⏹️ ▶️ John pipe dream, the game was definitely more, more of a factor in my childhood than an opium pipe.
#askatp: Nintendo + M1?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Speaking of games, as far as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Zafar writes,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I imagine Nintendo came to Apple and asked for an M1 license for their next Nintendo Switch Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why would Apple refuse and why would Nintendo not attempt this? And this is also relevant on account of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey new OLED Switch having come out, which I want if for nothing else, just because of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kickstand, which is so much nicer. But nevertheless, I don’t see Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey licensing the M1 to anyone for any reason, even somebody in a different industry, because I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they think of this as their, what’s the opposite of an Achilles heel, like their, their, their
⏹️ ▶️ Casey superpower that that this is what, what gives them a competitive edge and advantage
⏹️ ▶️ Casey over everyone else. And I don’t think they would want to give that to anyone, regardless of industry.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s not it’s not an obscure industry with Apple, you know, 85% of Apple’s profits in the App Store coming from games,
⏹️ ▶️ John Nintendo is a direct competitor, don’t give your competitor, your best hardware
⏹️ ▶️ John asset, which are these amazing CPUs that they’ve made for their phones, iPads, and Macs. Yeah, so obviously that’s why
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple would refuse. Is, you know, why would you help a competitor to be better than they otherwise would be?
⏹️ ▶️ John The other reason I feel like they would refuse is Apple needs all the chips it can make for its stuff, especially
⏹️ ▶️ John now that they’re using the same chips and all their stuff. And then why would Nintendo
⏹️ ▶️ John not attempt this? I mean, if Apple offered, Nintendo would be
⏹️ ▶️ John just, you know, incredibly foolish to refuse Apple would never offer. Nintendo
⏹️ ▶️ John is also a very proud company and tends to not be on the bleeding edge of technology
⏹️ ▶️ John very intentionally in the past. Various people who have made very popular products, like there was a good article
⏹️ ▶️ John recently about recently about the person who made the Game Boy, like very intentionally makes make a product
⏹️ ▶️ John with established, essentially older technology that it’s inexpensive to make and very reliable
⏹️ ▶️ John and rely instead on things that don’t have to do with cutting-edge technology to make your games fun.
⏹️ ▶️ John Witness the Wii, not so much the Wii U, but even the Switch, which uses an extremely
⏹️ ▶️ John old, off-the-shelf chipset, slightly modified, that is massively less powerful than its competing
⏹️ ▶️ John consoles, and yet the Switch is selling like hotcakes because the games are really good and Nintendo had a good idea
⏹️ ▶️ John for a product, this handheld slash TV thing, right? They made a good product,
⏹️ ▶️ John They made it with older technology and Nintendo is proud of the fact that they sort of go their own
⏹️ ▶️ John way. So Nintendo would not come begging to Apple, you know
⏹️ ▶️ John Sony and Microsoft might although Sony is also very proud Microsoft would totally do it though But yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s not giving this stuff to anybody like yeah, who wouldn’t want a chip? that’s incredibly low power and
⏹️ ▶️ John incredibly fast like every game console maker could do amazing things with this chip, but
⏹️ ▶️ John Nope, you don’t get it. Only Apple does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, and a couple other reasons too I mean, whatever amount of money Nintendo would make them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this deal, I don’t think would be worth Apple having a customer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the chip that’s not them, and therefore having to do things like, you know, make contracts to make
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this chip available for a certain amount of time and a certain volume, and, you know, have to then answer to this customer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and deal with them, and, you know, what if there’s a problem with the chip? Then, you know, Apple has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to deal with that. I can’t see Apple wanting to take on the burden of a customer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on that level. And then secondly, you know, the whether Nintendo might not want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, cost I think would be a pretty big problem. You know, the Switch is a 300-ish, 200-ish
⏹️ ▶️ Marco dollar game console. I guess I know about the new one that’s 350, and I know about the little one that’s 200, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, suppose they would put this in like the high-end new one for 350. There aren’t any
⏹️ ▶️ Marco M1 devices that are anywhere near that price point. I don’t know what Apple pays for the
⏹️ ▶️ John They would use an A12 and it would still be faster.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s true. That’s what I’m saying. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John the Nintendo is not buying top of the line anything. Right? So
⏹️ ▶️ John the cost wouldn’t be a factor because they wouldn’t be using an M1. They would be, you know. Your other point about
⏹️ ▶️ John the needs of the customer are the real difference. Because Nintendo, what Nintendo would ask for, Apple would be like, well, we don’t have anything
⏹️ ▶️ John that does that. And Nintendo would say, well, can you make something like that and sell it to us? And Apple would say no, because they don’t want
⏹️ ▶️ John to have a customer, right? Yeah, Nintendo could use an M1 and that would be great, but that would be
⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote expensive, right? Compared to the price, but like the Tegra X1, whatever they’re using
⏹️ ▶️ John probably cost Nintendo like $7. It’s like, it’s so cheap
⏹️ ▶️ John and the power reflects that. It is not a powerful chip, but it
⏹️ ▶️ John is designed to do game-like things. So, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John if Nintendo went shopping in Apple’s portfolio, it would have to choose from like the older Apple TV
⏹️ ▶️ John chips, essentially.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and also, you know, the M1 is not necessarily what Nintendo would even want.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, there’s obviously, it’s probably a larger chip than what they’re using. You know, it might have different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thermal and just board space needs.
⏹️ ▶️ John It has way more CPU power and not enough GPU power, probably, in terms of the balance.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, like game chips are usually lopsided in that way. They usually put as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much, like, you know, chip real estate and budget, both for power and heat and money,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco into the GPU as possible. And the CPU is usually okay, but they need a lot more GPU
⏹️ ▶️ Marco power and not as much CPU power typically as you’d put in a MacBook Air.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so the M1 is not even the right chip for them. But even if they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco did all this stuff, part of the reasons why Apple’s chips are so incredibly fast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Apple is that they’re Apple’s chips running Apple’s compiled software
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on Apple’s operating systems. And you wouldn’t have all those advantages
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you just popped an Apple chip into someone else’s hardware device running someone else’s software with someone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco else’s whole ecosystem. They’re still, you know, fast, competitive chips, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it wouldn’t necessarily be as compelling, even if all the other issues were worked
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out. It’s not going to be what you think it would be by having all of a sudden Apple’s chip
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in someone else’s device.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it would be pretty amazing, but like you’d be totally wasting like the image processor, the neural
⏹️ ▶️ John engine. Nintendo doesn’t need those. Like that’s just a waste of money. And those are a big part of the chip
⏹️ ▶️ John like there and they’re powerful and significant. Nintendo would be in the situation that Apple has been like sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ John where it’s like, geez, well, the chip we’re getting has this stuff on it and we don’t actually have a use for it. But I
⏹️ ▶️ John guess we could put better cameras on the Switch, or does the Switch even have a camera? I think it does,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right? No, I didn’t think so.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, the neural engine, can we use that in games somehow?
⏹️ ▶️ John this is not what they want or need, right? And yet, Apple has invested a huge amount of time
⏹️ ▶️ John and money making it, and they invest real estate on their chips and putting it there, because it’s incredibly important to the
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone, which is what these chips are made for, or arguably to the Mac. But still,
⏹️ ▶️ John go look at any benchmark of the
⏹️ ▶️ John the Tegra X1 that’s in a Switch. It’s night and day, right? So,
⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing about the M1 is, it would probably also fit within a similar power envelope that would work in the
⏹️ ▶️ John Switch, given how big it is. So, the technology Apple has access
⏹️ ▶️ John to, let’s put it that way, it’s CPU cores, it’s the manufacturing that it gets through TSMC, the preferential
⏹️ ▶️ John treatment it gets for having its chip on the newest process when other people can’t get their chips, all that stuff. Anyone
⏹️ ▶️ John would love to have access to that. Secondarily, I think they would like to have access
⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple’s parts bin of crappy old chips, just because those are
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco also better than the Tegra
⏹️ ▶️ John X1 in many, many ways. But yeah, none of this is ever gonna happen.
⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t imagine why Apple has ever thought about it, and I can’t imagine Nintendo has ever thought
⏹️ ▶️ John about it, just because that’s not how the companies work. But it is fun to think about. I mean, the general
⏹️ ▶️ John disappointment over the OLED Switch is because people thought they were gonna get potentially a more powerful system,
⏹️ ▶️ John they could do better stuff, and that’s, I’m kind of in the same camp of, I’m always wondering,
⏹️ ▶️ John what could Nintendo do with more power, right? One example of that is Breath of the Wild.
⏹️ ▶️ John Breath of the Wild is a game that’s not possible on the N64, it’s not possible on the GameCube, it’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ John not possible on the Wii or Wii U class of things, although it starts to get close, but the point is, games
⏹️ ▶️ John like Breath of the Wild became possible when Nintendo finally crawled up the power
⏹️ ▶️ John curve high enough that hey now we can do an open-world game. Power for the sake of power isn’t just
⏹️ ▶️ John like oh, I don’t need fancy graphics. No, it’s gameplay. You can make more interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John better games the more computing power you have. Nintendo travels that path. They’re just
⏹️ ▶️ John behind everybody else. So every time I see an amazing Nintendo game, I think imagine
⏹️ ▶️ John what Nintendo could do with PlayStation 5 power. Imagine what they could do with Xbox Series
⏹️ ▶️ John X power. We’ll find out in seven years. 40 years.
⏹️ ▶️ John because they’ll get there eventually, but I am always looking for, I wish Nintendo would have a little bit more
⏹️ ▶️ John power. But if you look at Nintendo’s balance sheet, they’re saying we use incredibly cheap components that are reliable in known
⏹️ ▶️ John quantities, and we’re selling every Switch that we can make, and I think they’re approaching 100 million Switch sold. I think they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John up to like 85, 86 million, which is close to the number of Wiis they sold. And the Wii was a
⏹️ ▶️ John standard dev console and the HDH, if you remember that. So you can’t really fault Nintendo’s strategy, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m always looking for, I’m always fantasizing about, imagine if the Nintendo
⏹️ ▶️ John first-party game creators had access to modern day computing
⏹️ ▶️ John power rather than always being stuck with, you know, five years ago computing power.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, ExpressVPN, Hover, and Linode. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thank you to our members who support us directly. You can join at atp.fm slash join.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We will talk to you all next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ John John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental. And you can find the
⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at atp.fm And if you’re into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental, accidental They didn’t mean to,
⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, accidental Tech Podcasts So long
Air conditioning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love summer. It’s not like there are parts of it that are a little clumsy,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but otherwise I love summer. It’s my favorite season. I’m always happiest in summer.
⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of summer and things you don’t like and sweatiness in your Aeron chair, so this all connects in my mind.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sure I’ve asked about this when we talked about Aerons in the past, but I always found the stupid bar on the front digs into
⏹️ ▶️ John my legs. Do you find that?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it depends on how you sit. I mean, by the way, there’s a reason why none of Herman Miller’s chairs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco made after the Aeron have that bar. It’s not a great part of the design. It’s, it’s kind of, you know, it would be hard to get rid of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with this particular design, but yeah, I agree that is a problem. Many people don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Airons come in three different sizes. There’s like an A, B and C size. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you have the wrong size chair for you, it’s like if you have one that’s too big for you in particular,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then that bar will dig into your legs more than it necessarily might need to.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But also it just depends on how you sit. Like whatever you, what are your, whatever you’re doing with your legs,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if you’re crossing one and sitting on it or whatever, like that bar can get in the way.
⏹️ ▶️ John sticking your legs out way in front of you. Sometimes I do that and I think that exacerbates it. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John making it straight essentially so they go way out under your desk. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m trying that now. It doesn’t really do it for me. But yeah, I mean it depends how much you would squish the fabric down. So yeah, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any chair, it’s gonna be really good for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most people. But some people it’s gonna have a little bit of a weird fit on them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so that’s why typically, ideally, in the good old days, we could go to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stores. It was always useful to go find a showroom for whatever brand you’re looking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at or somebody that sells it and go sit in one.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the Airons were everywhere as the dot-com bubble was popping and I was working in
⏹️ ▶️ John the industry. So they were easy to get cheap by the crappy companies that I was working
⏹️ ▶️ John at. Weren’t buying new Airons, but as the other companies around us went out of business, and they liquidated their stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ John we got a bunch of used Arons. And they’re pretty sturdy, and they hold it pretty well. So they were all over the office. So I got to try
⏹️ ▶️ John all different sizes and shapes and textures of chairs, including Arons.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s how I learned that they were not the chair for me. Although I do appreciate the mesh thing. Your house is
⏹️ ▶️ John air conditioned. So what are you, like, aren’t you going to keep it at a livable temperature? It’s not like sweating like I am in
⏹️ ▶️ John this little un-air conditioned cube here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, so we use the air conditioning when it’s really hot. It’s on actually right now, because it’s both
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very hot, very humid and going to storm. So like it’s obviously good for that kind of situation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t, and we’ve talked about this before, I don’t like using air conditioning if I can get away
⏹️ ▶️ Marco without it and be somewhat comfortable. Because like I have a ceiling fan, which I love,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I would so much rather just have this fan on all day, blowing on me like at medium
⏹️ ▶️ Marco speed, up to about 78 to 80 degrees. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless it’s like super humid, then maybe like a little bit lower than that. But because I don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco air conditioning because first of all, the way air conditioning works is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s blowing like 40 degree air into the room to chill the room
⏹️ ▶️ John 40 degrees, how powerful
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is your air conditioning system? I
⏹️ ▶️ John hope it’s not blowing 40 degree air.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe a frost. It’s blowing very cold air into a room through some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ducts to try to cool the room down to a low average temperature. but, and it’s doing this in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a cycle. So the result is you have this cycle of very cold air blowing in, and then it slowly warms
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up. And so it’s the point where it’s almost too hot. Then you have very cold air blowing in again. During that time, there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no wind there. I mean, you could turn the ceiling fans on in addition, but then that, you know, so like there’s not a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of air movement. You’re in this like isolated place where you’re missing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out on like the natural environment outside. You’re missing out on the natural breeze and the, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sound of the waves and the sound of the drunk people yelling outside. Like, so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I miss all that. And then I go outside and I get blasted
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by this super hot temperature difference, right? And then when I get back to my house, I’m blasted by the super
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cold temperature difference. There is no outfit I can wear that like, because if I’m wearing shorts,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then I’m cold in the house.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe you have the AC on too high or making it too cold in your house because your house should
⏹️ ▶️ John not be like a refrigerator. You’re just trying to take the humidity out. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but because the house is, like because when you have the AC on, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like seal the house up, you kind of have to keep it a little bit lower than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you would be able to tolerate if it was open. You know, otherwise it gets too stuffy,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because then it doesn’t cycle on enough. So it’s a whole thing. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very glad we have air conditioning. There are times like this where it’s really nice to have, and you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would never go without it if I had the choice, but I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to minimize how often I actually really use it because I like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco natural air, I like the breeze, I like when it’s a little bit warm.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like all that, it’s summer, it’s supposed to be warm and this is all things I like. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultimately I consider air conditioning like a necessary evil sometimes, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not going to use it all the time if I can help it.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m assuming your house has an air to air heat exchanger, so you’re not just recycling the same air, and
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m guessing that maybe it has a dehumidify function that doesn’t change the
⏹️ ▶️ John temperature, which is a thing you can also have. Like, you shouldn’t be stuck in the situation
⏹️ ▶️ John that people with crappy air conditioning are, where you have to choose between freezing cold, but dry, and
⏹️ ▶️ John too hot, you know what I mean?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco As far as I know, it doesn’t have a way to dehumidify.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So like, the systems, temperature?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re heat pump air conditioners. So like, you know, because it’s mostly air conditioning with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco occasional heating. And so, you know, it’s regular heat pump air conditioners. And I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think there’s any mode on them that I can access that is just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John dehumidifying.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe you don’t have the heat exchanger. The heat exchanger thing is where it takes fresh air from outside
⏹️ ▶️ John and changes that air to be the temperature that you want so you can get some fresh air in so you’re not just literally recycling
⏹️ ▶️ John the same air. And that really helps get rid of the… I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have, we had to get something, like for modern energy codes, we had to get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an ERV, which I think does that function. I’m still not entirely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear on why we needed the ERV and what exactly it does besides make noise. It’s some kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of fan that is like up in like the ceiling and I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what it does, but I’m pretty sure that is the goal it’s trying to achieve.
⏹️ ▶️ John Energy recovery ventilator, effective ventilation for humid climates. Yep, you definitely qualify.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep, that’s the one.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s the air to air heat exchanger. It’s exactly that. You can see the little diagram on the thing. It’s a little diamond shaped box
⏹️ ▶️ John with the air. Yep, that is exactly what I’m talking about. I may be, I mean, that should help things.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the air conditioning with the fan, you scoffed at that, but that is definitely a way to go. I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know, having spent many summers on Long Island at various rental houses, some of which
⏹️ ▶️ John had air conditioning, some of which didn’t, I can tell you, you want the ones with air conditioning.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh yeah, no, that’s what we put it in. It’s very hot
⏹️ ▶️ John Especially at night, like not being able to sleep because it’s too hot and too humid is just the
⏹️ ▶️ John worst. So I’d avoid and call it a necessary evil. I would say like, again,
⏹️ ▶️ John spend a lot of time without air conditioning and you’ll never call it evil again.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh no. I get what you’re saying about wanting the fresh air. Yeah, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I won’t go without it. I just don’t like when I have to use it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you should try just putting the air conditioning on but at a slightly lower temperature. We’ll still take most of the humidity out
⏹️ ▶️ John of there. You should never feel cold in your house. and oh, this is a problem in the South, sorry Casey, where the air conditioning
⏹️ ▶️ John is on like, I always feel like there’s only one setting, which is like maximum. It’s like how cold can
⏹️ ▶️ John the HVAC system in this building make it? Whatever the maximum is,
⏹️ ▶️ John just that’s what I want it to be all the time because I don’t know, people are always sweaty and it’s so cold
⏹️ ▶️ John that like, if you stay in there for a long period of time, just die of hypothermia. Like in the beginning,
⏹️ ▶️ John you come in from the 90 degree, 90% humidity, you’re like, ah, it’s so nice and cool in here. But you see the person working
⏹️ ▶️ John behind the counter and they’ve got like earmuffs on because they’re like, no, you can’t stay in this building for any period of
⏹️ ▶️ John time, you’ll die. It’s too cold for humans. That’s the bad rap that
⏹️ ▶️ John air conditioning gets. And what are the worst ones? It used to be movie theaters were really guilty of that. I guess to save money,
⏹️ ▶️ John they have stopped that more recently. What are the other worst offenders? It’s usually like smaller stores.
⏹️ ▶️ John The mall, it costs too much money to make that cold. But anything that’s like a mattress store or something,
⏹️ ▶️ John go into like a mattress store in Georgia and it’s you know negative 27 degrees in there.
⏹️ ▶️ John No good. It’s cold in my office. It’s not cold in my
⏹️ ▶️ John office, Margo. How much sweat is on your upper lip right now?
⏹️ ▶️ John Is it non-zero? Mine is non-zero. I think I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John getting a blanket. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco conditioning. It’s too cold.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh yeah. Only a monster or either a monster or Or someone who is just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey impossibly spoiled would say, oh no, air conditioning is too
⏹️ ▶️ John I get what he’s saying. A lot of people don’t like air conditioning. And I generally don’t like it when it’s too cold. But just.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that’s the thing too. Air conditioning takes on a whole other level when you have to share
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the space with other people or other people are controlling it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, there’s disagreement about what the livable temperature for humans is. Here’s the problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John The hot people, of which I am not one in many ways. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was going to say. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t think we have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of experience in that area on this show. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ John The people that, you know, it usually isn’t like in the bed of like, who’s always cold at night and who’s always hot. I’m always
⏹️ ▶️ John cold. I have bad circulation. I’m always cold. It’s just the way I am, right? But the people who are hot, do any
⏹️ ▶️ John amount of activity in the outdoors, like literally any amount. I took the garbage cans to the curb. Like now they’re so
⏹️ ▶️ John overheated, they need to be in a freezer, in a meat locker for two hours to recover. And
⏹️ ▶️ John so that’s why they always wanted the house to be a meat locker. It’s like, you don’t understand, I moved recently. Now I’m hot. Now
⏹️ ▶️ John the nuclear furnace that is my body is going to burn and I will literally melt
⏹️ ▶️ John through the floor and journey to the center of the earth in a molten trail if I don’t live in this
⏹️ ▶️ John meat locker for two hours to get back to normal and then God forbid they move again, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think also there’s the problem that people have of the thermostat
⏹️ ▶️ Marco psychology. Two issues, I think. Number one is people often think that if they turn it way past
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where they want it to be, it’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John somehow get there faster. It’ll make it colder faster.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’ll make it work faster, not realizing it’s just an on-off switch. But also then there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the thermostat battles between people where if you’re like, keep adjusting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and then someone else comes up and adjust it a different way and then you go back and adjust it again, I feel like you adjust it also in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger swings in that context than you might necessarily want to. So like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you walk up to a thermostat and it’ll be set to like 62, you’re like what, who would set this?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like that makes no sense. And then someone else comes over and sets it up to like 85 and you’re like no,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not how this thing works. But at this point, it’s become a human problem much more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than an HVAC problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John The rental houses we used to have, it was always a challenge, especially when we had lots of people in a really big rental
⏹️ ▶️ John house, really lots of extended family in one house. Inevitably, once we upgraded
⏹️ ▶️ John to houses that had air conditioning in them, which was a big upgrade, the air conditioning would work
⏹️ ▶️ John way better in one corner of this sprawling house than the other.
⏹️ ▶️ John so now you have, okay, who gets to be comfortable tonight? because
⏹️ ▶️ John if you set it to this temperature, these two rooms will be comfortable and the rest will be incredibly hot. And you set it to this temperature, they’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John freeze in there, but everyone else will be comfortable. So you really just kind of have to alternate nights of like, or not alternate nights,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I mean, what it boils down to usually is the old people get to be comfortable, which is a rule set that I’m becoming much happier
⏹️ ▶️ John with now that I am entering the class of the old people.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Let’s like, the best beach houses here that we rented for air conditioning were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the ones where each room had its own mini split unit. each bedroom because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s you know houses that weren’t built with central air because they’re too old
⏹️ ▶️ John well that depends on who you’re sleeping with because if you’re sleeping with one of the people who disagrees with the temperature
⏹️ ▶️ John even a one room uh sort of grain grain size is not so right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are you a like dual zone climate control in the car couple
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like the smoking section in restaurants that’s not a thing i’m sorry like we don’t have a glass wall down the middle of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh bs it is absolutely a thing. You just have crappy cars.
⏹️ ▶️ John is not a thing. You’re sitting a foot from them. It’s in one interior space. It makes no, no, I never
⏹️ ▶️ John take it off of sync. It’s always on sync because what the hell is the point? Like it’s like literally a foot and a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I understand what you’re saying, but I, I strongly disagree. It is not flawless. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not perfect, but it absolutely works.
⏹️ ▶️ John Then see it. Then next time you’re sitting next to Aaron, why don’t you strike up a cigarette and see how great this dual zone thing works for