Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

350: Wax Buddies

Did you ever wish we’d do a sports podcast? After this, you won’t.

Episode Description:

Sponsored by:

  • Handy: Handy – The easy and convenient way to book home cleanings on a schedule that works for you.
  • Bombas: The most comfortable socks in the history of feet. Save 20% on your first purchase.
  • Backblaze: Unlimited cloud backup for your Mac or PC for just $6/month.

MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Danny’s
  2. Our sports podcast
  3. Sponsor: Backblaze
  4. ATP Holiday Store 🖼️
  5. Another 16” image 🖼️
  6. iOS 13.2
  7. Samsung folds again
  8. HomePod update
  9. Sponsor: Bombas (code ATP)
  10. AirPods Pro
  11. Sponsor: Handy (code ATP)
  12. Mac Pro in stores?
  13. #askatp: Wait for ARM?
  14. #askatp: APFS Time Machine
  15. #askatp: Letterboxd
  16. Ending theme
  17. Neutral: Tiff’s new i3s 🖼️


⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was probably really sh**y, but at the time I didn’t know about a restaurant. I think it was like a guy’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey name, like Bernie’s or something like that, that I used to love going to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There was a place called Danny’s in Wurzburg.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Maybe that’s what I’m thinking of. I don’t know. It was really sh**y, I think, but I loved it as a 10-year-old.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything there is really sh**y.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was really sh**y, but you loved it, Casey?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No, I didn’t. It’s very on-brand, isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it? Out of character. jeulu

Our sports podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In the grand tradition, we are recording in the middle of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey world series. And was it a couple of years ago that we actually ended up like live

⏹️ ▶️ Casey commentating on the game? Because I think that was game seven. I’m going to call it commentating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, fair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We were talking at the same time the game was going on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John We did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco acknowledge the existence of the game. And I believe we were trying to figure out what was going on. It was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the post show. Yeah, it didn’t make the actual edit. Because it was like, it was, I tried,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really tried working it in, but it was, there was nothing to be saved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was, it was truly terrible. But Hometown Heroes, the Washington Nationals, are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the World Series in Game 7, which means this is the decider to figure out who is the best baseball team in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey land. And I really generally don’t care for baseball, but every once

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a while, it’s like a cup of coffee, right? I have like two cups of coffee a year, and I’m like, yeah, I think today’s the day. And then I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go back to not drinking it ever again. This is today’s the day for baseball for me. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have it on the side.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like I respect the idea of sports, but I’ve never had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a team affinity. So I can follow what’s going on in all the major sports games. Like I know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rules enough to know what’s going on and to follow the games, but I just don’t have anybody that I really care about rooting for.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now where this comes in handy is I actually really enjoy going to a baseball game,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I couldn’t give two craps who’s playing or what kind of game it is. And so the best thing to do is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go to AAA games because they’re super cheap. You can get great seats. It’s a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco easier. Like everything about them logistically is easier and cheaper and you know the food is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. You can get like a hot dog and hang out. And if you don’t care if the team you’re seeing is like a super pro team

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or not, it’s a great option.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. We have the Richmond Flying Squirrels, which once upon a time were the Richmond

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Braves and they were a feeder team for the Atlanta Braves. But I don’t forget who they feed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. be the Giants. I want to say it’s the San Francisco Giants that they feed. But anyway, I’ve actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lived in Richmond over a decade, have never been to a Squirrels game, which is kind of unfortunate, nor did I go to a Braves game before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. But Erin, her dad is a huge baseball fan and a huge Atlanta

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Braves fan because he grew up here and again, feeder team, blah, blah, blah. And so what I’ve understood

⏹️ ▶️ Casey through many, many, many different family stories is that Erin’s dad would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey put her with her little curly blonde hair and when she was like six years old or eight years old or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and put her in whatever area that is that you would get autographs on baseball cards. And so she would get autographs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from all these different baseball players and a lot of them, you know, went on to do nothing. But from what I understand,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey she saw, oh God, it’s not Alex Rodriguez, who was the incredibly popular Yankee

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, oh God, please don’t put this in show group or murder. I’m trying to blank

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco now. It’s been a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John long week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. Thank you, Derek Jeter, who apparently was a total.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John You’re getting confused with A-Rod, huh?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know. I know. I’m sorry. All the baseball people are so angry at me right now. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway. Anyway. To be fair, all the baseball people aren’t listening right now because they’re watching the World Series. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey also fair. But anyway, but yeah, so Aaron grew up with baseball and I just never really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cared for it. However, I did go to a Nationals game years ago and loved it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree with you, Marco, that going to a baseball game is surprisingly fun.

⏹️ ▶️ John So how are they the hometown team? Is this like New England Patriots where like an entire region claims

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a team?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Because what do I have? I mean, is there a North Carolina team? This is as close as I get to a Virginia team.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m trying to think there’s no West Virginia. Tennessee borders Virginia but it’s way on the other end of the state

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me. Like easily this is the closest major league

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John baseball team to where I am. You

⏹️ ▶️ John could claim the Red Sox and Connecticut could be your hometown.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No! No!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey F*** you, John. No way.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So here’s the thing. No, no, no, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no. You don’t understand, John. You’re coming at this like a damn n**. So here’s the thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The way, if you look at Connecticut, it’s like a rectangle, right? That’s a little bit wider than it is tall.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And yes, I know Connecticut’s tiny, ha ha ha. But if you split Connecticut right down the middle, which is roughly where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hartford was, if memory serves, the western half of the state is the good half. That’s the state that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey roots for the Yankees, and that’s the state, and the Giants, or if you really hate your life, the Jets or the Mets.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eastern half of the state has been infected by Boston, and they root for the Patriots and the Red Sox

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and all those terrible teams.

⏹️ ▶️ John The western half, the only thing the western half has going it for it is tons of extremely rich people, if you consider

⏹️ ▶️ John that having something going for it, right? but the problem with the western half is that the the the

⏹️ ▶️ John eastern half comes by its redsox fandom honestly

⏹️ ▶️ John whereas the left half of connecticut is just wanna be new york that’s all i’d like to know

⏹️ ▶️ John other than the other than the very rich people how do you how do you come to that conclusion because they because they wish

⏹️ ▶️ John they were in new york they wrote what they want to root for the new york teams but they’re not actually in new york and no one cares about connecticut and so they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey connecticut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually in massachusetts either

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah but the right half of connecticut is solidly new england ish and all of new england claims to the patriots

⏹️ ▶️ John which makes sense and the red zone what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the hell are you talking about at my parents house where they used to live i could be in the state

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of new york on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John so i think i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could be in manhattan by car like an hour and a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John half it

⏹️ ▶️ John is exactly what i could say they brag about how close they are to new york i don’t have any particular opinion

⏹️ ▶️ John with you saying that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Connecticut is want to be New Yorkers or whatever fine that’s okay sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they are no more want to be New Yorkers than they are want to be Bostoners or Bostonites

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever you call yourselves. Boss holes?

⏹️ ▶️ John No I feel like the Red Sox despite them being the Boston Red Sox and not the New England Red Sox they might

⏹️ ▶️ John as well be the New England Red Sox. Look no further than Stephen King famous Red Sox fan

⏹️ ▶️ John who lives in Maine which is much farther away than Connecticut.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know what I’m gonna do? I don’t. I’m gonna leave all this garbage in the show and that way we can refer back to this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever anybody asks us to talk about sports. We can say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John this is what look at what happens a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when we

⏹️ ▶️ John talk about sports. We’re not talking about sports. We’re talking about Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Honestly, maybe that’s better. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John Connecticut to be fair. The sports is just tangential. It’s the most anyone has ever talked about

⏹️ ▶️ John Connecticut. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably true actually. No offense taken. That’s probably true. Connecticut was a lovely place to live and I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey glad I’m not there. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same way to talk about Ohio.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly right. I have been off the grid for the last week, literally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two hours ago, I was stepping off a plane at the local Richmond airport. Am I allowed to call

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the hometown airport? Is that okay?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s- I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, we could have a whole Robot or Not episode about what hometown means, but you trying to claim the Washington Nationals as

⏹️ ▶️ John your hometown team when you grew up in Connecticut and live in Virginia is weird. Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Remember, it’s the Washington, D.C. Nationals.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, no, I understand it’s not the state. Just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey making sure. Okay. No, let’s do it. What justifies a home team? How does one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey claim something as your home team is it only where you grew up is it only where you are right now home

⏹️ ▶️ John hometown not home team

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sorry

⏹️ ▶️ John yes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey listen what I mean that what I

⏹️ ▶️ John say

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey we might have already

⏹️ ▶️ John done hometown I don’t think so I’ve listened every problem with the show I always have to like search the archives

⏹️ ▶️ John so we don’t end up repeating because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no seriously I’m not I’m not upset laid on me what how does how do I claim this

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like hometown is the plate assuming this is this is a this is hometown normative but assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John you grew up Assuming you grew up in a single place, like you weren’t traveling all the time and didn’t move seven

⏹️ ▶️ John times before you were 18, I feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’s where

⏹️ ▶️ John you spend a substantial portion of your formative years. If you spend them in a single place, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John your hometown. Sure. I think I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey agree with that. But what happens if you move every two years until you get to high school?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, then you might not have a hometown. If you move every two years, what are you going to claim as your hometown? Nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s the thing. I have lived in some portion of Virginia, actually I’ve lived in Richmond specifically,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey longer than I’ve lived everywhere else.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John in your formative years,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re just

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco arguably still being formed. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what years are these? This is like middle school and high school. Is it earlier than that? Like, what are we

⏹️ ▶️ John talking? It’s certainly before it’s certainly before 18. I’m going to say it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey well,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, sort of school age going off into puberty, maybe like

⏹️ ▶️ John that region. So like, like middle school, because like if you went to myself for like kindergarten and first

⏹️ ▶️ John grade, like who cares, whatever. But I’m saying like, you know, 567 days, ninth, 10th, that

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of range 11th, you know, that that’s sort of the meat of it. Don’t you feel like? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. Yeah. So if you were in like the same place for most of that time, this becomes an easy question. But if you weren’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it becomes complicated.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you might have to like if you were if you’re in two places, maybe that you could still like try to claim both of them. Like my

⏹️ ▶️ John early childhood was this is my hometown or whatever. I feel like you just have to end up picking one. But if you moved a lot, you just might

⏹️ ▶️ John not have any singular hometown.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I feel like the rules are pretty, pretty clear that like if you moved a lot, that kind of sucks. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the reward you get for having tolerated that is you get to cherry pick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at any given

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John time for any given question.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You get to pick like what’s the best answer for this right now? What can I claim as my hometown for this particular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco story or scenario right now?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Amen, brother. So John, I moved in the beginning of eighth grade, and I moved from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey having bounced around every two years for most of my childhood. In eighth grade, I moved to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little tiny town in western Connecticut called New Fairfield. I was in New Fairfield, Connecticut from eighth

⏹️ ▶️ Casey grade through my graduation from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco high school.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s pretty solid. Oh yeah, that’s your hometown.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Eighth grade through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high school graduation, that’s it. That’s it right there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so that’s fair. I’m on board so far, but now as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an adult, admittedly as an adult, and I am on board with what you’re saying about formative years, I’m not challenging you yet, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have lived in Virginia and specifically Richmond. I’ve lived in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Richmond since 2008 and Virginia since 2000. So it’s been almost 20 years that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been in Virginia in some way, shape or form. At what point do I never, like, do you never get to claim

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Boston as a hometown, John? Because-

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s one word you can change in this thing and you might have, I don’t recall what you said, but there’s one word difference here, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John If you say I’m rooting for my hometown team, that’s incorrect. your hometown team would be

⏹️ ▶️ John something in Connecticut or whatever, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The new Fairfield tire factories. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re rooting for the hometown team, then that might be valid, assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John what you said. I mean, you know, assuming that the Nationals are the hometown team of people in Virginia, I,

⏹️ ▶️ John like you said, may have slim picking. So I guess that’s it for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. I, unless there’s something in like in some part of North Carolina that I’m not thinking of.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I mean, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John like in the same way that people stretch out from all over New England to claim the Red Sox,

⏹️ ▶️ John could you stretch all the way down to get the Braves in Atlanta? Uh, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s too far. See, that’s why, uh, what is it? Who is the Panthers? The, uh, is that right in North Carolina?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The NFL team? That’s football. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I’m saying like we, I think it’s slightly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasonable to claim the Panthers if you’re from Richmond, because the only other choice you have is the Redskins and everyone hates

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Redskins. So what are you going to do? Um, and for me, I choose to root for the New

⏹️ ▶️ Casey York Giants because my entire family is rooted for, well, I don’t really don’t pay attention the NFL anymore, partially because the Giants suck

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and partially because the NFL really sucks. But anyway…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Paul Meyers And the Giants

⏹️ ▶️ John are in New Jersey, which is a sore point.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven Connelly Well, that is that as well. But anyways, so I think if I were coming of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey age, like so Declan, for example, if he paid attention to football, I think it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would be reasonable for him to claim the Carolina Panthers or, if he really hated himself,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Washington Redskins as his hometown team. Because even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey though they’re a state away, it’s still, there’s such slim pickings. There’s not like 44

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sports teams like there is around you guys.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, don’t get Declan into football because it causes brain injury and it should

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey abolished. And the NFL is pretty evil.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, for other reasons as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, Marco, at this point I know you do not believe in sports, but if you were to believe in sports, would you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey elect to believe in Ohio? in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Ohio, a sports team from Ohio? I don’t even know how to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say this. Would you root for things from Ohio or would you root for things from New York?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it would be hard. So like, you know, my home place, like my birthplace slash hometown

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is Ohio, Columbus, Ohio slash Bexley, Ohio. But where I consider myself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quote from, if somebody asks like, you know, where are you from, who’s just meeting me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m probably not gonna say Ohio because that usually is more of a question of like where do you live right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now? You say originally from Ohio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John right in front

⏹️ ▶️ John of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If the question is like do I consider myself an Ohioan or a new yorker presently?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m a new yorker. You know I’ve been here for you know over a decade. I think that counts right. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey okay yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know I am a new yorker. I am from Ohio originally and my hometown

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is Columbus Ohio, but I am currently in a yorker based on that. I feel like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I pick either one and as long as I don’t change my affiliation too frequently, I feel like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of just pick whichever one has like you know the best record or the you know most fun colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was gonna say nicest outfit, but you beat me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John to it yeah right. I mean I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do like I do like red and so I’d probably go Ohio State. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but and here’s the other complicating factor is yeah yeah the other complicating factor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that I’m from Columbus not Cleveland or Cincinnati

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and those are very different places and they’re like you know Cleveland is basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in Lake Erie and Cincinnati is basically Kentucky like Columbus is kind of its own

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know island in the middle of a sea of cornfields and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t have like even when I was there no one in Columbus gave a crap about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the pro teams that were in Cincinnati or Cleveland and Columbus doesn’t have a lot of pro teams.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it doesn’t have an NFL or MLB team in Columbus. So Columbus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really all about Ohio State. That’s the whole thing there. No one there cares about the pro teams

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because there aren’t any. So it’s all about Ohio State, college, football, and basketball. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would have a hard time caring about any other teams in other sports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Ohio. Like if I had to pick a football or a baseball team that was not college, like I wouldn’t be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to really from there. Ultimately though, the Ohio State red is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a great red. It’s technically scarlet and gray. And it’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re kind of like crappy, muted. Like I don’t like the red and gray combo that Ohio State

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uses, so I probably wouldn’t actually vote for them. But I don’t know, New York stuff, like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t like the way they mix in the yellow with the blue, and so I don’t know. I don’t know. I’d probably, and also I kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of feel like New York, it’s like, what am I going to do, like be a Yankees fan? Like every single person on earth, like I feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that’s kind of overdone, kind of cliche to be a Yankees fan, right? So, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know. This is why I just stay out of it. Steve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey McLaughlin Well, I mean, the easy option is to do what everyone else does, which is to root for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Steelers, the Cowboys, and the Yankees, because they were good when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you started paying attention, and then you just claim it forevermore. Jared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Polin I will say, I lived in Pittsburgh for a couple years and it was really fun

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to root for the Steelers in Pittsburgh because they happened really good then and they didn’t have any of that baggage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like everyone loves them like the Yankees, at least at the time, this is like 2005. They,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everyone loved them back then.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but and also, but like there was also a clear pick, like if you lived in Pittsburgh, you rooted for the Steelers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so like, so we didn’t have the problem that Columbus had where there’s kind of no pro teams and there wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the problem of like being overdone like the New York teams were. So that was kind of fun. I enjoyed being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Steelers fan for two years in my, I still didn’t care that much, but like everyone else around me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did so I was able to participate a little bit more and like that would like I was there when they won a Super Bowl so that was really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun like to be in the town then and everyone was all involved that so that was kind of fun but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was clearer there than it is here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know Steelers are definitely on the list of like the Cowboys, you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the team that everyone roots for even though they have no allegiance whatsoever now you get an exception here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but no allegiance whatsoever to Pittsburgh or Dallas. Like Gruber rooting for Dallas, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have never really understood. Or the Yankees, actually. But to each their own.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My father-in-law loves the Cowboys as well. I beat him up for this all the time because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he has absolutely no affiliation to Dallas whatsoever. I think it’s just that when he started paying attention, they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were extremely good, and so that was his team. He also Chicago Bulls years ago, back when Jordan was around.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey When coincidentally, I lived right outside Chicago, so I get to claim the Bulls forevermore, which last I heard was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still not good. But that’s right, we should probably move on from the Accidental Sports Podcast,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco slash Robot or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not. This is so bad that I want, if anyone from Apple is listening

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right now and just so frustrated and yelling at their phone at how we’re butchering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sports, I want you to know that this is your fault for not releasing that 16-inch MacBook pro yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John This is what you get.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Backblaze, unlimited cloud backup for your Mac or PC.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Go to slash ATP to learn more. I love cloud backup.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You don’t have to remember to do it. You don’t have to have like a particular hard drive that you remember to take

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of the closet or go get from a safe deposit box and plug it in once a month or anything. It’s just automatic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco continuous cloud backup. So it just automatically runs in the background and you always have it. You can’t possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forget about it. And they bring this to you with unlimited transfers, unthrottled speeds, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unlimited space for any hard drives connected to that computer for just $6

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a month per computer. It’s even less if you pay for year or two-year plans. I gotta say, I love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Backblaze. I’ve been using them since long before they were a sponsor of this show. There’s a reason why I use them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve tried the other ones, and believe me, Backblaze is the best cloud backup solution out there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it has been for years and years and years. They already have 800 petabytes backed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up from people like me. They’ve restored 45 billion files so far. They have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the features you want. Like of course you can control the client app, you can throttle speeds and everything if you need to for your connection.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they also have mobile apps for on the go access. So through either their website or through their mobile apps,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no matter where you are, it may say you’re on vacation, you can like restore one file from like your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home desktop computer or whatever is backing up to backblaze. So you can always get to your files anywhere, even if you haven’t had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a disaster, which If you do have a disaster, they have all sorts of easy restore options from downloading things on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco website all the way up to they will ship you a hard drive with your files on it and if you return

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it within 30 days, they’ll give you a refund on the price of the drive. They even now have version history upgrades.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They already have 30 day retention for any kind of change you want to make. You can go back 30 days and recover stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But with version history upgrades, if you pay a little bit extra, you can get retention up to one year or longer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See for yourself.

ATP Holiday Store

Chapter ATP Holiday Store image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP by far my favorite cloud backup solution out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. I’ve been using it myself forever. I pay for it myself. It’s just wonderful. slash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP. Thank you so much to Backblaze for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on. I have been out of pocket for the last week, so I have no idea what we’re talking about tonight. But I do know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one thing we can talk about and that is the ATP Holiday Store. store. Happy Christmas and Merry Hanukkah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everyone. It is time for more shirts. And even though it’s wintertime in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the United States, we’re going to offer some t-shirts for sale. We’re going to do a slightly different take

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the existing and much beloved M style ATP shirt. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t remember which one of you came up with this, but it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not me. Okay, there we go. That’s right. You always assume John, I forget I’m breaking the first rule of ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, so John came up with doing the ATP shirts in six colors and there is both light

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mode and dark mode, which is to say the slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash. I hope I got that right. ATP

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is in either white text or black text. And then you can choose the same shirt colors.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They will be available for purchase up until, or pre-order, you know, the same rigmarole we’ve done

⏹️ ▶️ Casey many times, up until Sunday, November 17. So if you want it for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey late December, for example, and actually I believe Hanukkah and Christmas both fall in late December if I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mistaken. So order by Sunday, November 17th. I’ll remind you a few more times, but I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey highly recommend picking one of these up. They look like they’re going to be really great. Also we’re bringing back the traditional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rainbow slash slash slash slash slash slash ATP shirt as well as the hoodie as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well as the hat and the pins are always in stock. So go and check them out. I think they look really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great. And something I’ve noticed is I have a fair bit of podcast t-shirts and they’re all black or gray.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I really, really, really don’t mind introducing a little bit of color into my life. And so now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will probably order a whole rainbow of ATP shirts. So I will be that guy promoting my own thing pretty much all the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time since we’ve got all these lovely colors. Anything to add, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John John Mueller Men’s and women’s style and a hundred percent cotton and tri-blend. So the number of permutations

⏹️ ▶️ John is very large before

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you even consider

⏹️ ▶️ John the returning merchandise. Steven

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Connelly That’s true. I’d forgotten about that. Yes. of us don’t mind the tri-blend and one of us

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is extraordinarily particular about 100% cotton. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John like both. I have a mix, but I like there to be options. So behold, there are options.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s, by the way, that’s part of the reason

⏹️ ▶️ John why, like, we have the colors and we have the ink that’s black and the ink that’s white is because

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes a color looks, a shirt looks better with the black. Sometimes it looks better with the white. Sometimes it

⏹️ ▶️ John looks good with both. And so it’s like, look, you look at the shirts, you decide which one you think looks

⏹️ ▶️ John better and and buy the one you like. So problem solved.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John is like the all of us nerds when it comes to this stuff. Like he wants to offer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every single possible option for everything. And I’m like Johnny Iverson buttons. I’m like, can we just have,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can we just have like two good options and that’s it? Just make the decision for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Listeners, you have to understand Marco is not making this up. This is exactly how this conversation goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Every time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey single

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John time, every time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John or me, it It can be either one of us. But John or me decides

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we should have a whole plethora of options. And every single time, Johnny—I mean, Marco—decides,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, no, no, we need to cut it down to one or maybe two. So you’re welcome, everybody. All right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. I’m

Another 16” image

Chapter Another 16" image image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on in follow-up, there is a new image that might

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be the 16-inch MacBook Pro. Guy Rambeau over at 95Mac has uncovered this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and there is a post where they put up this image and it has a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey touch bar and a touch ID key, but instead of it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being attached to the touch bar or like part of the touch bar in a way, there is a clear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey separation between the touch ID button, you know, slash power button and the touch bar itself, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one would assume they would only do if they needed a similar style gap on the other side for, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know, an escape button, an actual escape key. So this is potentially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good news, we think.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it looks just like the one on the MacBook Air. So if you’ve seen the one on the MacBook Air, that’s what this looks like. The

⏹️ ▶️ John other interesting thing about this picture is it shows you get to see at least some of the key layout. And as far as I’m able to

⏹️ ▶️ John discern, there are no changes there. The spacing between the keys looks pretty much the same.

⏹️ ▶️ John The, you know, the key sizes look pretty much the same. No surprises in this

⏹️ ▶️ John photo at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that to me is the only disappointing thing is that I was, again, I’ve been hoping that they would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change a number of problems with this current keyboard, not only the reliability issues, but also I was hoping they would change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the, what I think is part of the accuracy problems that I and many people seem to have.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The keys are, the key margins are too small. Like the margin between the keys, like we used to have more space

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between the keys and you could feel the edges of them more with your fingers. So if you were like kind of off by one or getting off by one, you could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel it more. And also the flatness of the key cap, it seemed like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know, whatever it was, like the old ones seemed like you could feel where they ended and began a little bit better and the new ones you couldn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it seems that they haven’t really changed that. And you know what? Look, if they give us scissor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco switches, I’ll take it. If they give us a real escape key, which it looks like they probably will, that I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco take that as well. Icing on the cake would be inverted T arrows. And then a distant fourth

⏹️ ▶️ Marco priority would be like the, you know, key spacing increased. So if we’re getting, you know, if we’re getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the scissor keys and the escape key, maybe inverted arrows, I’ll be, I’m happy with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. That’s, you know, let’s give them, you gotta take what you can get, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so far, like, and there’s also been rumors that, you know, since October is ending and there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco event and they just did something else this week, which we got to that didn’t include this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Rumors are now like, oh no, what if this machine is slipping until next year? I still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think it’s not. I still think this machine is coming out really soon.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We heard a few months back, we heard from two different sources

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few bits of information that have been proven so far, or at least have been most likely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco proven so far to be accurate. We heard that it was gonna be the one millimeter travel scissor key switch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We heard that it was going to have a hardware escape key next to a touch bar. We heard that it was going to have inverted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco T arrows, which we don’t know if that’s true yet. And we heard that it was going to come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out this fall and be supported by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so far that appears to all with the exception of the inverted T’s, which we don’t know about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet. All of that has come true and we heard that from two different people a few months back. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m thinking that information was pretty solid and the fact that it was coming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they knew back then that it was going to be supported in this OS release in particular suggests

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s coming out any day now because they wouldn’t have these assets in this version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Catalina if it was coming out in the spring or next summer. They would wait until a much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco later OS release to support this machine and these assets wouldn’t even be here. So So the fact that they’re here,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the fact that all this other info has panned out so far, I’m inclined to guess that this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is happening imminently still.

⏹️ ▶️ John A few other things just to make clear from this picture, it looks so much like the other ones in all other ways. It’s got

⏹️ ▶️ John the little holes next to the keyboard that look like they’re the same size, the same number of holes, the same position, the hinge,

⏹️ ▶️ John the, you know, everything about this picture looks exactly like the previous ones.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously you can’t see the fact that the size might be different because I think it’s cut off before you see the edge.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can’t see the arrow keys, as we already alluded to, so we can’t tell anything about them. But it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John further confirmation of the sort of iconic illustration of the computer that we talked about in the last show.

⏹️ ▶️ John But this appears to be an actual photograph. Or,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John probably an actual photograph, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All righty. Well, let’s see what happens. I’m hopeful. I don’t know if I’m going to get one of these, but I’m hopeful.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on.

iOS 13.2

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iOS 13.2 is out. I waited until I got home to upgrade my phone and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s the only thing I’ve upgraded so far. Is it safe to update now for those of us who are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey holding out on the iOS 13 debacle? Are we good to go now?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is the least crappy version of iOS 13 yet. Hooray! That’s their slogan, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s still problems with it, but the number of problems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going down. I wish it was not growing new problems ever released, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the total number of problems is going down, so it is getting better. If you really want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to upgrade to iOS 13 and you haven’t yet, then go for it. It’s good enough,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but if you’re on 12 on a device that still supports it and you are happy with 12

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you are relatively conservative in your software update cycle, I would say there’s not a strong

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason to upgrade yet, given that it’s still not rock solid. There are still issues.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, they are getting much fewer, but there are still issues. As a developer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m annoyed by 13.2 that they seem to have changed dramatically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how often and how aggressively apps get killed in the background for just like just being terminated for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making space and memory. It seems like developer as a user.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean saying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, like I tweeted about this the other day and I got a whole bunch of responses from people who are seeing the same issue of like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically your apps need to restart from scratch a lot more often than it seems like they used to before iOS 13.2.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like toddlers under a blanket. If you’re not looking at the apps, they disappear. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco literally, as

⏹️ ▶️ John soon as it goes off the screen, the app is gone. Like it’s blowing my mind. Like I’m sideways swiping,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, on the iPad, my iPad Pro, I’m sideways swiping on the little thing in

⏹️ ▶️ John pullover mode, and when I sideways swipe to one app, I sideways swipe back and the app

⏹️ ▶️ John is relaunching. I’m like, I was just looking at you two seconds ago. You’re in the sidebar. What the hell?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. It’s, I think it’s just broken.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’ve heard especially people are having problems with things like YouTube, which does not remember

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your position. Or like, you have to go to your history to pull up the video you were watching a minute ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Safari having to reload all of its tabs all the time. Like, as a developer, it freaks me out. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I hear that my app is being killed in the background really quickly after you’re leaving it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s my fault. It’s certainly my problem. But I think, oh no, I’m taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too many resources, or I’m holding a lock open too long, and the system is killing me. It’s not like you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John running on the watch. You’re running on this thing with gigs of RAM and this incredibly powerful CPU, and it’s like, oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco sorry, I’ll kill you. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I know it has happened before. It’s reasonable for you to think about that, but it is not just your app. It’s like every app I use.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, yeah, and in a way that’s comforting because it makes it so that I guess it probably isn’t my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fault. On the other side of it, though, I can’t seem to do anything about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Have you considered using GPS

⏹️ ▶️ John constantly?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s a fun trick. No, I mean, and if I’m playing audio, that seems to be OK. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re if you’re playing audio or doing turn by turn tracking, you know, it will keep you open in the background.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I was

⏹️ ▶️ John going to say, you have the easy out of like, look, my app literally does is meant to play audio in the background.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you’re not going to kill me because I’m playing audio. But other apps don’t have that defense.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and literally, like I’m hearing reports from lots of people now of like they pause the app for like 10

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seconds and go back and it has to relaunch after being paused for a very short time. So it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God, I just, what are they doing over there? Like it seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every release of this God forsaken series of OS’s in 13,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every version of it fixes some stuff but then breaks some new stuff. Like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just, I don’t know what is going on over there but they have serious

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problems and software quality right now.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m trying to figure out like with this whole thing is this is this like a new regime of power saving is this like partly

⏹️ ▶️ John responsible for the amazing new battery life of the phones the fact that it kills everything instantly in the background all the time

⏹️ ▶️ John or is it just a bug like I don’t have a good explanation of this behavior but it’s from a you know

⏹️ ▶️ John forget about developer of like oh my app is getting killed from a user perspective it it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John my devices no longer have multitasking the good part is they actually did make app launch faster

⏹️ ▶️ John in 13. So they relaunch really fast. And if the app is good, it does resume position.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I can still tell it’s relaunching like I see the friggin splash screen and the apps like, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t I don’t understand what’s going on. I was thinking as a user, like, Oh, maybe there’s some

⏹️ ▶️ John new thing that apps have to comply with to get better behavior and indicate that they shouldn’t be killed. And that might still

⏹️ ▶️ John be true. But like, it’s just not a good experience. And I’m mostly cranky

⏹️ ▶️ John about this because I chose 13 to I plan at a time. 13 two is my releases aren’t gonna update all my stuff. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John did. So I, you know, I’ve dated from 12 to 13 too. And you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John there haven’t, I haven’t seen things crashing my phone’s not rebooting. None of none of my things got, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John bricked or anything on the update. And it’s mostly been fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John But this multitasking thing, particularly on the iPad, where I’m frequently doing multitasking and have lots of

⏹️ ▶️ John things being juggled at once, Relatively speaking, it is a significant downgrade in the experience

⏹️ ▶️ John and I hope they sort it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got it’s just like it not only from the like from the developer point of view to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am just I am at my wits end with being an iOS developer right now like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like every time there is a new condition that our apps get killed for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I was talking about this in under the radar this week to like there there used to be back in the olden days you you had the low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory warnings. And there’s an API for that, where if the system is low on memory and your app is still running,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it will call a certain function in your app and post a certain notification that you can respond to to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do things like drop some cached content or do something to reduce your memory usage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at runtime. And then if it needs memory still and you haven’t reduced it enough, it will kill your app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little while later. But there’s now a whole bunch of other conditions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that your app will be killed for. Things like using too much CPU time within a certain window or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco writing too much disk or other conditions that your app will get killed for now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But not only are these mostly undocumented, but there’s also no warning API in place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for any of them. So you just get these crash reports that you just got killed for using too much CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. And it’s like, okay, I can tell my app to slow certain things down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in code if I get a warning ahead of time that I’m nearing some kind of limit. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, these limits are mostly undocumented. And they change between OS releases.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there’s no notification API to tell me that I’m getting near a limit. So all I’m left

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with is, OK, I just get killed every so often for reasons that you just made up in this OS release

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and didn’t tell me about. And there’s nothing I can do about it. And a stack trace, when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have a CPU usage termination, is usually not very useful. So I don’t really know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what my app was really doing during that. And so it’s just really, combine that with stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this new termination problem in 13.2 and the problems of 13.0 and 13.1 that also broke all of our apps in different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways. It’s a really rough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time to be an Apple developer right now. Like, it’s leaving such an incredibly sour taste in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mouth that like, not only can Apple not get its stuff together on their own software,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but now they’re making my life hard and making things bad for me and my customers for my software,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the environment that it’s running in is both unstable itself and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is acting increasingly hostile towards my app. It’s like they don’t even want us there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree with this more. And I’ve been really grumpy about this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lately. Not only is the documentation crap, as we’ve been talking about repeatedly over the last few

⏹️ ▶️ Casey weeks, but something I noticed is that with Vignette,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was getting killed from time to time because I was writing too many contact updates too quickly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that is completely undocumented. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco completely and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey utterly undocumented. And the crashes were extremely odd and weird and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not helpful at all. And there was no way for me to do anything like throttle

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, just like you were saying. I mean, you were saying the exact same thing, Marco. There was nothing I could do about it because there was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no limit that I knew about. And I asked around with people I know internally and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey got some like potential answers, but it’s just extraordinarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey frustrating that I am at least an okay developer and I can, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey work around these limitations as long as you tell me what the limitations

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are. And if you’re not going to tell me, then what am I supposed to do? It’s absolutely infuriating. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I, it’s, it’s, I look at what Apple’s doing and I’m the, I am impressed and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if we’re even going to talk about the AirPod Pros today, but they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doing so much so well and yet at the same time so much of these fundamental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things are falling through the cracks and it’s very, very frustrating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at best and just morale killing at worst. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m in this game for a lot less time than you, Marco, but it is very, very frustrating trying to keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up with all the different ways Apple changes their minds and opinions and rules and regulations. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s tiring.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As developers, when the platform is basically quicksand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco below our feet, and when the platform is both rapidly changing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and has a bunch of its own bugs that keep changing as well. So The APIs are changing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the language is changing, the UI framework is changing, the platform is unstable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every OS release introduces new problems that we have to deal with, plus we have all these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco undocumented requirements that keep propping up in point releases and everything. Add all that together

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t have time to work on features to make my app better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’m just churning, working on just trying to keep up with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quicksand that that my app is supposed to be built upon, trying to keep up with Apple’s changes and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bugs and the APIs and deprecated things and changes in new OSs. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco am having such a hard time just keeping up with the bare minimum. I have no time to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my app better for my customers. I don’t know what Apple expects us to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know either. All right, let’s try to talk about something happier. Maybe?

Samsung folds again

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Samsung unveiled a new foldable flip phone concept. When did Mike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get access to our show notes? What’s going on here?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is what I was talking about last week, which is why it’s in follow up for like the foldable phones.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think it was like two weeks ago, we talked about Mike’s fold up thing. And then last week I

⏹️ ▶️ John said, I was thinking about taking a quote unquote, normal size, you know, iPhone size phone

⏹️ ▶️ John and thinking of ways to fold that. And that’s exactly what Samsung showed. They showed

⏹️ ▶️ John a, you know, like I said, traditionally proportioned phone and it

⏹️ ▶️ John folds like a flip phone, like the hinges right across the middle of the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it becomes half as tall as it was. And I think that’s just a concept, I think,

⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe it’s a thing they’re making. It was more of a teaser. I saw it and

⏹️ ▶️ John it makes some sense to me in that it is more easily pocketable, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still not entirely sure of the merits. I mean, it certainly

⏹️ ▶️ John seems like it would make a better fidget toy than the Galaxy Fold, which seems hard to take out of your

⏹️ ▶️ John pocket and idly flip open and closed, but this is much closer to the pre-smartphone,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, sort of feature phone, dumb phone, flip phone era, where you can take it and go flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, if they

⏹️ ▶️ John make the hinge good, that could work. On the other hand, I still feel terrible about this screen being

⏹️ ▶️ John folded over on the inside of a phone, that really tight radius on the inside curve and the inevitable crease

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re gonna get there and yada, yada, yada. Anyway, just funny coincidence that their timing

⏹️ ▶️ John of the release was right about the same time we were talking about on our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, any other followers?

HomePod update

⏹️ ▶️ John up? We skipped over the HomePod update.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco To

⏹️ ▶️ John update everything in my house to 13.2. And the HomePod was one of the last ones I wanted to like, supposedly

⏹️ ▶️ John has like the multi-voice support. So I wanted to try that out. And I kept trying to update it all day and it would be like downloading update

⏹️ ▶️ John and then it would say checking for update for a while. Then it would say downloading update and it was like 900

⏹️ ▶️ John megs or something. And it would download surprisingly slowly because I guess it’s over Wi-Fi. I guess there’s no wired

⏹️ ▶️ John Ethernet connected to my HomePod and it’s not particularly close to my access point,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I’m like, it should be going faster than this. And I’d look at it again and it would just be sitting there or it’d be like, it would say

⏹️ ▶️ John downloading or it would say checking again. It just seemed to not be making progress. Like there’s no progress bar,

⏹️ ▶️ John another recent concept topic on the show. So I don’t know how far along it was,

⏹️ ▶️ John but all I know is that hours were going by and it wasn’t getting updated. And I’m like, is it downloading the OS update to my

⏹️ ▶️ John phone? Cause I was using the home app on my phone. I’m like, no, that can’t be. The HomePod is downloading it to itself, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And I couldn’t understand it. And then eventually I raised my head above the

⏹️ ▶️ John waterline of my daily routine and saw on Twitter that everyone was saying that the HomePod update had been pulled

⏹️ ▶️ John because it had been bricking HomePods and they don’t have a good way to sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John restore them to health with a special button press or a USB-C cable or whatever. Any kind of diagnostic

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff they have is not really user accessible. So if it really truly hoses itself, you kind of gotta give it

⏹️ ▶️ John back to Apple and the Grinch brings it to his workshop and fixes it for you and then

⏹️ ▶️ John gives it back. So what I had heard, and this is my internal explanation of this, is that, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, so there was bricking HomePods and that Apple, in theory, stopped

⏹️ ▶️ John signing the update so you could download it, but when it would try to validate the signature or whatever, it would fail,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then it would just download it again and try to validate the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco signature and fail again. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey if this

⏹️ ▶️ John is true. This is what I had been told. And it explains why my HomePod, and I spent

⏹️ ▶️ John most that day, downloading, repeatedly downloading 900 megabytes of OS update only to find

⏹️ ▶️ John that it could not install it. So I guess I dodged a bullet there because it didn’t break my home pod

⏹️ ▶️ John and I was trying to update after that happened. And today I ran the update for real and I got 13.2.1

⏹️ ▶️ John and it did not break my home pod as far as I know. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco just

⏹️ ▶️ John heard someone said turn off lights before I started the thing and it worked. So that’s good but you know just add

⏹️ ▶️ John that to the pile of iOS 13 related disasters.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Bombas. Did you know that socks are the number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one most requested clothing item in homeless shelters? Well, Bombas is on a mission to change that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They created the most comfortable socks in the history of feet. And for every pair of socks purchased,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bombas donates a pair to someone in need. And these are designed with special comfort innovations,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors, patterns, lengths, and styles. So Bombas are perfect for the whole family.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Get your hands and feet, I guess, on a pair of Bombas socks and your feet will thank you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bombas so far has donated over 20 million pairs of socks and counting. These are made from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super soft natural cotton and every pair is designed with arch support, a seamless toe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a cushioned footbed that’s supportive but not too thick. There’s also some great new things such as their new merino

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wool socks designed to be breathable, dry and never itchy with just the right amount of thickness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and with tons of different colors, patterns, lengths and styles. Bombas make the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco perfect gift for not only for yourself or for everyone on your list. Now I wear Bombas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco socks. I wore them all summer because I, and this was before they were a sponsor. I just, I heard they were good and I bought them and I check them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out and they’re really, really nice. Like these are, these are not like, you know, your, your standard,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, cheap 12 pack bulk pair of socks. Like these are really nice socks. They’re like, they’re soft,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re thick and just the right places. Like they’re really well-made. they fit, like, cause you actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco order like different size socks, depending on how big your feet are, instead of like, you know, a one size fits all kind of thing, which basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco means it fits nobody. They’re really nice, I gotta say that the Bombas, they’re just really great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco socks. So, you can see for yourself at slash ATP,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if you use that link, you will save 20% on your first purchase.

AirPods Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Once again, that’s slash ATP to save 20%.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP. Thank you to Bombus for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey While I was gone, Apple announced AirPods Pro, which came

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out… When did they release the AirPods with the Qi case? That was six months

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, something like that. I bought a new set of AirPods whenever that happened because my first gen bought,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey within first couple of weeks, AirPods were basically useless at that point. It was apparently March

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 2019, says Rufola from the chat. Thank you, Rufola. So, I bought new AirPods in March.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not really interested in buying new AirPods right now, but oh man, these sound good. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Do either of you have a pair at this point?

⏹️ ▶️ John Paul Matzko, Jr. I do. I knew Marco would have them, and he doesn’t. Paul Matzko, Jr. He’s been

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for this. He’s been waiting for this moment. You know, know, the old AirPods didn’t fit his ears, but he

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to use AirPods. So this is potentially, and we’ll hear what the result is, a solution because

⏹️ ▶️ John these are shaped entirely different than the old AirPods and they work differently. So Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ John how do your ears enjoy the new AirPods?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I have to start this with a giant disclaimer. I’ve only used them for a total of about an hour

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far because they just came tonight. So I used them as much as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I could before the show, but this is still a very early like first impressions kind of thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a like you know full review. I love that the case is not really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that much bigger than the old case. It’s mostly just like the old case turned sideways. It’s the fat nano

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of

⏹️ ▶️ John AirPod cases.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, it really is actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, I was afraid when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we started hearing rumors about these that it would be some kind of like giant bulbous case that wouldn’t fit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the iPod Nano pocket in your jeans, but it still does. Like it sticks out a little bit on some jeans, but like it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it’s very similarly sized to the old AirPods case. You just turn it sideways and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s that way. So it’s fine. Um, and that’s, that makes me very happy because all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve wanted all this time is some kind of headphones I could keep in my pants pocket

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and always have around and be comfortable that way. And only the previous air pods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever really did that for me. But again, as mentioned, I had comfort issues with them and uh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and falling out issues with them. And I also, I, you know, controlling them always sucked like doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the double tap that always sucked. And so the air pod pros, air pods, provis, God,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re gonna, we’re all gonna mess this up constantly. Air pods pro, they, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they fix a lot of these problems. So first of all, they come with three different size tips, very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco similar to the, uh, the way the power beats do, although these aren’t the same tips, they’re different shapes, but you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three different size tips. Very, very happy about that. I tried them with the size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that comes on them, like the medium size, I guess it is. The medium size seems to fit me great. I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to change to the other two sizes. I ran the cool test that it does where like it plays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some music and listens using the exterior microphones. It listens to see like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how much sound is leaking out and how much is getting in and that kind of tells

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you like whether your fit is right or whether they’re not sealing properly and the test passed for me so that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty cool so I think I will probably be sticking with the the medium-sized tips that come on them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and after about an hour of wearing them I felt fine it wasn’t as comfortable as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over ear headphones are for me because it was still something in my ear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if I’m gonna be wearing something for like an an hour or more, I would rather wear either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over ears or aftershocks, the bone conduction ones because those similar thing like they don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything in your ear. But if I’m going to have something in my ear, this is the most comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one I found yet on par with and slightly better than the power beats pro. So that was that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was really nice. You know, again, I’ll see how it goes with longer sessions, but so far so good. Noise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cancelling on them. I haven’t had too much time again to play with it yet, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it seems to be like moderate strength. It’s nothing like what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get with the big over ear Sonys or Bose’s, nothing like that at all. But it is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it reduces sound somewhat. I actually like keeping it in the transparency mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think I’ve mentioned on the show yet, I have the new Bose, I think it’s just, I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called the 400s or something, or 300s, some number that is like the new big Bose headphones. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those, I got those a couple months ago. One of my favorite features on them is that you can turn noise canceling totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off and it uses the microphones on the outside to pipe outside sound into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the headphones in addition to your music. And so it’s as though you’re not wearing headphones at all. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want to be somewhere where you want to hear the outside environment, which I always do, if I’m like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco outside, you know, I pretty much only want noise canceling if I’m on a plane or something, but like, otherwise, like I want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hear what’s going on around me. That’s again one of the reasons I like Aftershock so much. So the Bose

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has this feature where it could pipe sound in from the outside continuously in addition to your music and I love that feature.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well the new AirPods do that now too. They have this feature they call it transparency mode and it’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really nice. It feels like you’re not wearing them at all because you can hear what’s going on in addition to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your podcast or whatever. So I love that feature. I’m probably going to keep it in transparency mode most of the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s nice that it has some isolation and some noise cancelling ability

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because one of the problems that AirPods have always had is like it’s really hard to use AirPods in very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco loud places like on planes or like train station or whatever because they just didn’t seal very well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it was very likely that your outside sound would overpower the AirPods sound and you’d have to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either crank it up to like unhealthily loud levels to hear what’s going on inside your EarPods.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These I think will solve that. I think both the improved passive isolation from the rubber tips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the active noise cancelling, I think will be good enough that you’ll probably be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wear these on like a plane or a ferry or a train and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’ll probably be able to hear your stuff okay. Again, I don’t think it’s going to be anywhere near

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as strong in that kind of scenario as over ear, you know, big active noise cancelling models but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for earbuds, they’re great. Now, controls. They’ve totally changed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the control scheme here instead of tapping your ear, which I hated on the AirPods because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like it’s already uncomfortable in there and now you’re making me like strike my ear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like double tapping them to do like that was a terrible thing. So with these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve built in pressure sensors into the sticks stems whatever they’re called and uh called the temples

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there you go yeah so so you you squeeze the stick it doesn’t actually move it isn’t an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actual button it’s It’s like a squeeze sensor, and it makes a little click sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in there. So it sounds kind of like you’re clicking a button, and then it mimics

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the old headphone gestures. So the old headphone clickers that they would have when they were wired,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one press is play, pause, two presses is seek forward, three presses is seek back.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then you can hold it for a few seconds, and that is either, you can set it to either Siri

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or changing the noise canceling mode between off noise canceling and transparency.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can set those differently for each ear. So if you want, you could make the left one change noise canceling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode, and the right one invoke Siri if you want to.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does it announce what you’re doing when you change the noise canceling? Is there a voice, is there a sound? How do you know which mode

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you’re in?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It plays a sound effect, and the sound effect is different depending on what mode it’s entering. I haven’t learned them yet,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so. Like, I wish it would just announce it with voice, the way, like the Bose and the Sonys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have done that for a long time, which is very nice. So it’s like noise canceling on, you know, like that’s really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This doesn’t do that. This just plays some kind of pleasant Apple chime and it’s three different pleasant Apple chimes depending on what it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing. So I gotta figure that out. But you know, I’m sure if you use, if you use them regularly, you’ll figure it out. But uh, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco customize it. So you can say like if you never want to use say transparency mode, if you just want it to switch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between noise canceling and off, you can uncheck transparency to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the options that cycles through. So you can pick of the three options which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two or three it cycles through. So that’s pretty cool. The old tap gestures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are not present here. You cannot also do double taps on them to do, you know, the old things. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only the squeezing the sticks now. And I found so far in again, very limited use so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far, squeezing the stick is it takes a little bit of getting used to it, like exactly the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco type of the type of squeeze it wants. But once you get it, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty reliable. It seems like once you get the hang of what it wants you to do, it’s pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the little audio click sound that it makes when you’ve done a button press is very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco helpful to have that kind of feedback to know, like, I did it. And that makes it especially helpful when you have to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a double or triple click gesture to do forward or back. The little click sound it makes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes that a lot easier to do reliably. So I’m very happy with that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There is still no way to adjust volume on them. That’s a little annoying, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you used AirPods, you know what that’s like, because that’s how it’s always been. So I guess if you have Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Watch or your phone nearby, you just do it on that. Or I guess you could use Siri, but that would

⏹️ ▶️ John suck. I’ve done that, though. Sometimes my hands are full of stuff in the kitchen, and I do want to change the volume, and I have

⏹️ ▶️ John actually asked the dingus to do it. Yeah, I’m sorry. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s better than having no options.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s fair. So control wise, they’re not as good as headphones that have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dedicated buttons or a large tucked surface. They’re not as good as that. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for tiny little earbuds, they’re okay and they’re certainly a lot better than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the original AirPods in the control department, in my opinion. So finally we get, we’ve done comfort,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve done controls, finally we get to sound. These sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really good. They don’t sound as good as great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco full-size headphones, but they do sound as good as okay full-size headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would even say they sound as good as decent full-size headphones. They sound,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to my ears, better than anything Bose has ever made.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re on par with the Sonys, like the Sony WH-XM1000 Mark II

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and III. Mark 2 and 3, they’re similar to that in overall quality. Not the same tonal balance,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have a little bit better bass, a little bit smoother mid-range. They’re a little weak

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the treble response, so things don’t sound as crisp and airy as they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could. Also, in headphone reviewer terms, they don’t have a very wide sound stage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What that means in headphone terms is like, how wide does it seem like the room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you’re in is? Like, does it sound like you’re in a big, airy, open space? Or does it sound like people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have shoved speakers into your ears? When you have larger, better headphones, they use tricks to simulate a wide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco soundstage and it makes it sound more pleasant. AirPods don’t do that, and neither do the AirPod

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pros. But again, these are earbuds. And the whole time I was wearing them, I was testing them, I was listening to all these different music

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tracks and things I test with, and the whole time I was thinking, these are earbuds, I can’t believe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sound this good is coming out of earbuds. because they really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do sound better than a lot of full-size headphones I’ve tested. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall, it’s a very pleasing and offensive sound. Almost every headphone I’ve ever tested,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can point to something about its sound as being pretty severely bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in some way. Either it’s way too boomy bass that makes it hard to hear anything else,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the mid-range, where all the vocals and guitars are, is all sucked out and withdrawn, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the treble is so aggressively rolled off to make it sound warm that you get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no detail in the crispness range up there. And there’s nothing like that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can say for these. Like yeah, like the treble’s a little bit weak, but it’s to the point where like that could even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just be like what their audio engineers find is their personal preference of how it should be. Everything about the sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is just good. It’s again, like I would like more treble if it’s my preference,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but overall it’s just good sound all around. There’s nothing about it that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco jumps out as being too extreme or too lacking. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall good, very pleasing, nothing like the old Beats where the bass was too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crazy overpowering. So I really am very happy with these, considering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the convenience factor of having something that can fit in my pocket and finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be comfortable, I think, for probably long spans here. I also, by the way, I had no problem with them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco falling out of my ears. Another problem I have with regular AirPods is that like as I walk they would fall out because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like as you walk like your ear Moves slightly I guess and yeah, I had no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem there if they they stayed in I mean, I was just walking around my house because it’s raining a lot today I didn’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to go outside for a big dog walk at night But I will I report back on on if that if that holds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco during you know more motion But so far these seem like a home run and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco am so excited about that You know finally I think I will finally be able to join the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco revolution here That everyone else joined two years ago whenever that was because these do seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to fit me the case still does fit in my pocket unlike the power beats and I am

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just so happy at how good these appear to be like they feel good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They sound great for ear for earbuds again like they sound very good for headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco period and they sound great for earbuds and And to have that in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this convenient package with all the first party integration and support and everything, man,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they’ve hit a home run here. I’m very, very pleased with these.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not surprising that Marco couldn’t find an AirPod that he liked until Apple made a pro model. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well done, well done.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the other thing I heard about these, speaking of pro stuff, and I don’t know if this is true, I just heard it from one

⏹️ ▶️ John person, it would be interesting to measure, is that the latency is better. like the Bluetooth latency.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not sure how that could be, but I suppose it could be if they updated the chips.

⏹️ ▶️ John The other thing about these is, from judging by the pictures, it looks like there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John more volume in there, more non-battery volume.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe some of that is air, maybe some of that is just the shape of the case. Maybe I’m being fooled by the fact that the

⏹️ ▶️ John tip has nothing in it, but it looks like it’s part of the thing. But I’m wondering if there’s actually more bigger,

⏹️ ▶️ John better smarts inside these. They say they come with H1, like there’s no H2, I think, or any other

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of chip name changing, but I would love to see someone measure the audio latency to see if it actually

⏹️ ▶️ John is better.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, the actual, the AirPod itself, like if you discount the volume that is taken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up by the squishy tip, it is, I don’t think it’s that much bigger, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also they lost some of the stick length too, so I don’t know, I don’t think it’s actually significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ John The stick length is something I immediately, like when I first looked at these, I was all thrown off by the sense of scale.

⏹️ ▶️ John What I originally thought was that they took the AirPods case, you know, take the

⏹️ ▶️ John traditional AirPods case with the top facing up, and they had made it shorter, like

⏹️ ▶️ John they had made it half as tall. I’m like, oh my God, these things are so tiny. I’ve already pointed out, it’s not that, it’s they turned

⏹️ ▶️ John it sideways and made it, you know, 15% bigger or whatever, which is fine. But then I was like, the sticks,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, are the sticks shorter, or am I just fooled because the proportions have changed? But no, it turns out the

⏹️ ▶️ John sticks are shorter, which is a little bit strange to me because I know people, some people think

⏹️ ▶️ John that the AirPods look a little dorky because the sticks are a little too long, but I, well, all right, so

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m in the minority here, but I don’t have, I don’t care how dorky I look wearing AirPods for many obvious reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the least of my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco concerns. You don’t look dorky. Everybody wears them. Everybody wants them. It’s fine. Like I think during the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very first three days they were out that you might’ve looked dorky. That’s, that time has long passed.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, because of the AirPods.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John So but as far as I’m concerned Make the sticks longer if that

⏹️ ▶️ John gives me more battery first of all and second of all if the main Interaction with these things is grabbing a thing and squeezing it

⏹️ ▶️ John Another few millimeters couldn’t hurt if you’re grabbing it and squeezing it. Anyway, I haven’t tried them So I have no idea if this

⏹️ ▶️ John is actually an issue I just it would seem weird to me that that they would that they would decide to take

⏹️ ▶️ John that hit I think they are actually heavier as well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If the sticks were longer the case would have to be wider in that short dimension Like I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looking at like there’s not much room between the bottom and where the stick rests and the bottom of the case

⏹️ ▶️ John You could angle them maybe I don’t know I’d see like an x-ray to see how much room there is to to finagle them and that may

⏹️ ▶️ John be true That may be why they made them short and obviously it doesn’t matter in terms of battery life They have according to Apple and according to all the tests

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve seen of them pretty much exactly match the battery life of the non pro ones Which is a feat because obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John these use more battery because they’re sensing with a microphone and the noise cancelling mode and everything So they they

⏹️ ▶️ John met it with noise canceling. They knock off a half an hour So Apple says 4.5 hours per charge with noise cancelling

⏹️ ▶️ John and five without and five without is exactly what the non pro airpods have. So

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like they need desperately needed more battery. But I personally wouldn’t have minded

⏹️ ▶️ John more battery. And I was looking at the cutaways trying to figure out what is the battery in this? Like, I’m wondering if this changes the equation on the

⏹️ ▶️ John amount of mass in the airpods is attributable to the battery. We have the whole discussion about the fact that batteries are replaceable.

⏹️ ▶️ John All that stuff. Apple has been asked about that I think even more recently than our program about it and then continues to

⏹️ ▶️ John say that they’re mostly concentrating on recyclability. Recyclability is good,

⏹️ ▶️ John but an ability to be recycled is not the same as actually being recycled. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco let’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just reiterate for everybody, it’s not for, I mean, it’s not for Apple’s like of trying. If you bring your AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple, they will take them and quote unquote recycle them. I’m pretty sure bring them to an Apple store and they will recycle them for

⏹️ ▶️ John you. I’m assuming they don’t say, yeah, we’re recycling these and chuck them in the wastebasket. But anyway, see

⏹️ ▶️ John previous episode if they did that, the environmental impact would be a fraction

⏹️ ▶️ John of what it is to like wrap and deliver one MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco probably.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I am interested in the the sort of potential

⏹️ ▶️ John for a battery case for your AirPod Pros now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe make the sticks longer, make the sticks a little bit thicker, and give us even wider battery life. Because I think the battery life on these

⏹️ ▶️ John is fine when they’re new, but as someone who’s on his second pair of AirPods, you know, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John no getting around the fact that after a certain number of cycles, these batteries are going to be shot and they’re not replaceable.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I don’t want to have to buy new ones, especially now that the price for new ones has increased to $250 if this is the model you get.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you make that battery bigger, it lasts longer, it gets drained less severely.

⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t go all the way down to, you know, 5% power or whatever. All that could contribute to a longer

⏹️ ▶️ John product lifetime for these things. So there’s room for revision too, as always. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I gotta say, these are so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, a couple more little things before I forget. The cable in the box is a lightning to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB-C cable, not a USB-A cable. That’s a nice little touch. We’re moving into the future finally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it also, again, it comes with all three different ear tip sizes of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rubber tips that it can make. And I’m sure in three seconds, there’s gonna be like a million on Amazon too, in case these don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fit you. And then also the price of the replacement tips they’ve disclosed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is $4. So if you need more rubber tips, you can apparently get them from an Apple store for $4.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which sounds like a bargain, but actual cost of material is 0.01 cents.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Of course, but still, like to go to, to buy a physical product from Apple for $4, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t think, like, there’s not a lot of things that they sell you at that price range. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John the product, I think it’s more of a part.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a product, it’s a part. Whatever. apart for that and it’s good yeah then like I said there’s going to be a million aftermarket

⏹️ ▶️ John things but yeah no these seem like uh like I’m I wasn’t interested in these at all because I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John like any uh headphone things that go into my ear canal in any way

⏹️ ▶️ John whatsoever which is part of why I’m such a fan of the original AirPods and the original earbuds although the

⏹️ ▶️ John the first couple rounds of earbuds on the iPod were a little uncomfortable for me but AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ John I love like this is what I want you’re not actually in in my ear but you’re in my ear and of course I find them very

⏹️ ▶️ John comfortable and I wear them all day long and they don’t fall out and it’s great. I’m like all right well the pros it’s great for people like Marco who

⏹️ ▶️ John the other ones didn’t fit or if you want that in-ear experience or if you want nose cancelling none of those things interest me. But

⏹️ ▶️ John hearing everybody’s rave reviews about them like well maybe you only think you don’t like in-ear ones because all the ones

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve tried have been different you know than the Apple ones. So I’m but here’s the thing this

⏹️ ▶️ John you didn’t discuss this and I think it’s going to come up in our circles eventually. When, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John this is true of regular AirPods too, say I’m on the fence about whether I want to buy

⏹️ ▶️ John these and I hear everybody talk about them. What I want to do is try them to see how comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ John they are in my ears. But you don’t, first of all, you probably can’t go into an Apple store

⏹️ ▶️ John and try something and stick them in your ears because that would be weird and unsanitary and a million people have done

⏹️ ▶️ John that. No matter how much the Apple employees wipe that thing down with their little magical cloth that’s supposedly doing something other than smearing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John around, it’s probably not gonna happen. And even for people in your

⏹️ ▶️ John family or friends, you probably don’t want to take their earwax covered thing and shove it into your ear and after you do that they probably

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to take it back in their ear. I mean I suppose you could bring your own tips but the tips probably get wear and tear being

⏹️ ▶️ John torn on and off so there’s like this there’s this try-on problem with these that how do I know

⏹️ ▶️ John whether I should try buying these things? Now you could buy them and return them as like that 14 day whatever their return

⏹️ ▶️ John window is I I suppose. I shouldn’t buy them anyway. It was a moratorium on buying any technology

⏹️ ▶️ John products like my stupid Mac Pro. But we got to save all those

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco pennies.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How about before we move on? How much do you want to bet these cost less than the Mac Pro wheels?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, for

⏹️ ▶️ John sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Less

⏹️ ▶️ John than one. These cost less than one macro. Yeah, so any day that’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John come. But yeah, so I’m actually intrigued by this, not because there are any particular deficiencies

⏹️ ▶️ John with the existing ones because the noise canceling, I mean, even though it’s not a feature I really

⏹️ ▶️ John want, hearing that is just kind of like a more tame version of noise canceling

⏹️ ▶️ John and not as oppressive as the other ones. A lot of people saying like that because

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s this little air channel that it doesn’t give you that weird pressure feeling, which I don’t mind,

⏹️ ▶️ John but whatever, I think it would be good. And the other thing I had been assuming, and maybe Margo,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can tell me if you experienced this, I assumed the transparency mode wasn’t just

⏹️ ▶️ John playing sounds from the outside, but was concentrating kind of like voice boost on the human vocal frequency

⏹️ ▶️ John range and sending those through, but continuing to filter out things outside of the human vocal range.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can you tell if that’s the case?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As from again, this has been very limited use and only in one house, like with a TV on for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reference, but but it seemed like it was not doing that. It doesn’t it doesn’t sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally unfiltered in transparency mode, but it does sound like it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco strongly filtered. Any perceived difference in outside sound versus what was being piped

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in could have been chalked up to the microphone’s response pattern to different frequencies,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather than a deliberate filtering. So as far as I can tell, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing that. And honestly, I think that’s best. If you’re in some kind of transparency mode, you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want filtering. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John want it to be as neutral as possible.

⏹️ ▶️ John You want to hear everything. So you can hear the truck that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco about to run you over, even though it’s very low frequency.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, exactly. Yeah. So I’m actually vaguely interested in that feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John And we’re not going to get to this today, certainly, but eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John we probably will. This makes me think all the more about the future

⏹️ ▶️ John potential for Apple’s health products. Apple just had their earning call today, and we don’t really talk about those. But

⏹️ ▶️ John in it, Tim Cook, I think it was once again reiterated how important Apple thinks health

⏹️ ▶️ John is in the context of the Apple Watch and everything like that. They Apple is taking

⏹️ ▶️ John baby steps into other health related realms, whether people are noticing or not, by giving you a small thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John you can stick in your ear that listens to sound of the outside world and plays it amplified into your ear canal.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s not that far to go from the AirPods Pro a couple

⏹️ ▶️ John of generations down into something that perhaps isn’t a purpose built hearing aid, but can absolutely serve

⏹️ ▶️ John that purpose for a large portion of the population. And I think they could bring to it the same thing they bring to

⏹️ ▶️ John their cameras and their phones. And you know, we’ve got computational photography, the room for

⏹️ ▶️ John innovation in hearing aids and other, you know, assistive devices for

⏹️ ▶️ John like computational enhancement, rather than just sort of dumb amplification of

⏹️ ▶️ John sound is pretty big like Apple could can innovate in that space. They have the technology,

⏹️ ▶️ John the frameworks, the know how, the ability to make very small, very fast, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware in a, in a stylish package that can do a lot of sophisticated audio stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John and then having people on their staff who know how to do that programming. That’s just, I can

⏹️ ▶️ John see it. It’s like, you know, it’s not far away. Like they could have a product like that out by next year. And

⏹️ ▶️ John although they’re not positioning the AirPods pro in any way as an assistive hearing device,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think even hardware wise, some capability for that might already be there and could even be applied

⏹️ ▶️ John to the software update if that’s something Apple wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do. Couple more quick notes before I forget. Number one, I think these actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might last longer than the old AirPods did simply because there’s a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less potential for the earwax to gum up the important parts on the inside because the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different rubbery tip structure I think will keep your earwax further from the drivers and from the actual,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know, little speaker grill on the inside. And then secondly, one of the reasons why I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these will sound better to a lot of people is that the kind of like, you know, loose resting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there earbud style that the old AirPods were sounds very different depending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on how good of a seal your ear is making with them. If you have a good seal, you’ll hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good bass response. If you don’t, you won’t. And it’s a huge variation depending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on how good that seal is. And with the AirPod Pro, because of the rubber tip structure there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it keeps a much more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco consistent seal. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much less variation. You put it in and it’s sealed and it stays that way. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to push it or adjust it or anything like that to really get anything there. So, the way that AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco originally sound so different to different people, I think the AirPods Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will sound good to almost everybody because the different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ceiling structure it has there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin So an unfair question because you weren’t the biggest fan of the AirPods.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For someone like me who loves his AirPods and doesn’t fly but a couple of times a year, is it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey worth it to get new ones? Because sitting here now I feel like this is one of those like really good holiday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gifts, right? shirts at slash store. It’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really good holiday gift in that it’s something I want but I don’t want to pay for myself because I have perfectly good AirPods.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like, where do you feel this lands? Is it something that’s significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better on account of the noise cancellation or the sound or what have you? Or do you think it’s one of those, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, next time I get AirPods, get the pros or, you know, maybe put it on the holiday list or something like that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, if you’re an AirPods power user and you’re happy with them the way they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are, you know, fine, then I don’t think you need to rush to get these until like your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next upgrade cycle. I would say like, if you’re buying new ones and you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco faced with the decision of spending like whatever it is, the 80-ish dollars more for these,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say, no question, get the Pros. They are that much better. Unless

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you are super in love with the other ones and you don’t want what the pros offer. But the pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are so much better for me, for in comfort and in those features and the controls

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the sound quality. To me, it’s a no-brainer. But if you are super happy with the old AirPods, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep them. But if you are unhappy with any of those factors,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the jump, man. It’s so good. They’re so good.

⏹️ ▶️ John If Casey was over your house and said, can I try out your AirPods, would you hand them to him and watch him stick them

⏹️ ▶️ John in his ears? Like how would you how would you parse that socially speaking?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would let a good friend try them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John All right. You’re

⏹️ ▶️ John Rack’s friends. You’re Rack’s buddies. Yeah. Oh my God. Rack’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buddies. And to clarify, Casey is a good enough friend. I would let Casey try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can you can allow your bodily fluids to mingle. Some real time follow up from some

⏹️ ▶️ John forum posts. A couple people did go to Apple stores and the Apple store did allow them to

⏹️ ▶️ John try the AirPods, they had disinfectant wipes. And like I said, the people wipe stuff down. What would

⏹️ ▶️ John be even better is if they did like the doctor’s office ear scope thingy,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, when they’re gonna look in your ear with a little thing with the light, they put on a little plastic tip, they look in your ear, they look

⏹️ ▶️ John in your other ear, they pop off the plastic tip into the little garbage can, which hopefully goes to recycling somewhere, and they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John done. Like they get, these tips are so cheap that Apple should have like a giant bucket of them. And anytime anyone wants to try out

⏹️ ▶️ John AirPods, they say, sure. AirPods Pro, they take out two fresh new tips, pop them in, let

⏹️ ▶️ John them try them, and then when they’re done, they rip those tips out and throw them into the cool little plastic recycling bin. That would

⏹️ ▶️ John be a better system than trying to use disinfectant wipes. But disinfectant wipes is apparently what we’ve got. So if you’re wondering

⏹️ ▶️ John whether you can try them on, you can either, if you’re really good friends with Marco, try his, or you can go to an Apple store

⏹️ ▶️ John and brave the disinfectant wipes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Handy, the easy and convenient way to book home cleanings on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a schedule that works for you. Get your first three hour cleaning for only $29 at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP with code ATP. So Handy is a super easy to use service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that lets you book a home cleaning in just 60 seconds. Here’s how this works. Handy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matches you with a top rated pro in your area, or you can even choose who you want to work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with. You can compare profiles, you can read customer reviews from real customers who have actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used each pro, and then you choose a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly plan. Handy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco schedules your recurring bookings to make things easy. And the pricing is super clear, super up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco front. What you see is what you pay. You can pay securely right on the app, you don’t need to worry about cash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or checks. You can even do tips to your pro directly on the app. And no need to worry, 100%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of tips go directly to your pros. You can get your home cleaned any time that fits your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco schedule from 7am to 11pm, 7 days a week subject to availability.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can trust that the pros on Handy are background checked and rated by customers to ensure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quality. You can learn more about Handy’s background checks at slash trust and safety.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Handy offers their happiness guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the quality of the service, Handy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will book another pro to make it right at no extra charge. And for our listeners, Handy has a special

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limited time offer. Get your first three hour cleaning for only $29 when you sign up for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a cleaning plan. Go to slash ATP and enter promo code ATP.

Mac Pro in stores?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a three-hour home cleaning for $29 with a cleaning plan at slash ATP

⏹️ ▶️ Marco promo code ATP terms and conditions apply. Visit handy’s website for more information. Handy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most reliable name in house cleaning.

⏹️ ▶️ John One small item that has been in the notes for a few weeks only because it’s one of those things I

⏹️ ▶️ John see on the internet and then don’t hear anything about and I you know the obvious explanation

⏹️ ▶️ John is that it was total BS. That’s why you don’t hear anything about it. Um, but it could also be that nobody cares.

⏹️ ▶️ John I, several weeks ago someone was like, oh, I saw one of the new Mac pros

⏹️ ▶️ John in the apple store. One other person chimed in and said, yeah, I saw it too. I think it was on twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John or something. And then radio silence.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Now there are lots of,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are lots of explanations for this, right? One is that there is a, uh, at least one

⏹️ ▶️ John PC manufacturer case that looks exactly like the Mac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t actually slide off from the top, it actually just opens on the sides or whatever. There’s tons of YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ John videos of people showing this off and like, I’m making an amazing Mac Pro, or sometimes they show the video making

⏹️ ▶️ John you think it’s the Mac Pro. Like it really looks like dead on, you know, in a video or in photos, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not, it’s not an Apple case. By the way, if you’re wondering how you can tell whether it’s an Apple case, The one

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that these PC case makers were not brave enough to do was put a giant

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple logo on the sides. They were brave enough to exactly copy Apple’s industrial design, and I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John understand how they can continue selling that and not get sued out of existence, but that shoe hasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John dropped yet. But anyway, that exists. So maybe these people were confused and they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John see a Mac, a new Mac Pro in an Apple store. They instead saw one of these PC cases

⏹️ ▶️ John either in a, in a store or on a video or something. thing I thought for at least several

⏹️ ▶️ John days is maybe Apple does have the new Mac Pros in the Apple Store. It’s not like they don’t have them when we saw them running

⏹️ ▶️ John software at WWDC in June. Like they exist. You could have them in stores sitting off in

⏹️ ▶️ John the corner and maybe just no one cares. And so no one would mention it because who the heck cares

⏹️ ▶️ John about the Mac Pro? You know, there’s trash can Mac Pros in Apple stores now too. Nobody ever

⏹️ ▶️ John mentions those. They’re invisible. Like there’s also Apple TV’s probably hooked up and those are, you know, kind of meant to be invisible.

⏹️ ▶️ John But my conclusion was after several days of this is that these people were mistaken and or joking

⏹️ ▶️ John and Mac Pros are not in stores. But I did have a fun little diversion into thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John that they could appear there. The only other related tidbit we have on this, people were asking like,

⏹️ ▶️ John when is there gonna be like a Mac Pro event? Like they already did that. It was WMDC, there was an

⏹️ ▶️ John event, there was like, there was videos, there was music, there was a dramatic reveal on stage,

⏹️ ▶️ John we got to see them in person. they have the event. You don’t need another event. That said, there is some like

⏹️ ▶️ John Final Cut Pro event coming up and other places where Apple could like have a coming

⏹️ ▶️ John out party for the fact that you can now go online and pledge your children’s college fund to

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple in exchange for one of these computers. They could do that, but there’s not going to be another event event.

⏹️ ▶️ John The news today was that the FCC filing for this thing came through. I don’t understand how that

⏹️ ▶️ John relates to the timing of the release. Fall is a long time. I think it ends in the middle of December. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John still patiently waiting. I don’t even care about when they ship, really. I just

⏹️ ▶️ John want to see the pricing so I can figure out how much of my Children’s College fund is going to

⏹️ ▶️ John disappear into this computer. And Hammond Hall, probably for several weeks about configuration and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John like that. So that time at time of recording that has not yet happened. And that’s what I’m waiting for.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not waiting for an event. I don’t care about the FCC filing. And I’m pretty sure these machines do not exist in

⏹️ ▶️ John and Apple stores.

#askatp: Wait for ARM?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, moving on to Ask ATP, James Shield would like to know, I have a 2013 MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Air that I’m waiting to replace until Apple fixes the keyboards. But should I also wait until they move to ARM?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Are ARM Mac laptops and the associated huge boosts in performance and battery life just around the corner? Or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will I be hanging onto this already six-year-old laptop for as long as John has kept his Mac Pro? Do we,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree that performance and battery life should get better with ARM laptops in theory, but do we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, really, really know that? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John of course

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we don’t know it.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right, all right. Look at the size of the battery in the iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Compared to the size of

⏹️ ▶️ John the battery in Apple’s laptops. Consider the performance numbers, consider the battery. I mean, obviously the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John is smaller. If it doesn’t, Apple has done something terribly wrong. Like, it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be difficult not to make an ARM laptop that doesn’t have better battery life than what we see today.

⏹️ ▶️ John Better battery life performance ratio, I should say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so should one wait or should one just commit?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, like if you need a laptop now, you should just buy one. Like you’ll get a useful lifetime out of that before the ARM

⏹️ ▶️ John one’s gone. And do you want like the very first ARM laptops? Like you probably want to wait for the software to settle down and whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John the transition is, like it is perfectly safe to buy an Intel laptop now, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John since laptops like, I was gonna say, you’re only gonna be able to use it for six months before the keyboard starts breaking

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, but who knows? Yeah, that’s what I would say about this actually is,

⏹️ ▶️ John like don’t wait for ARM laptops, But if you can, wait for the ones with a keyboard that works

⏹️ ▶️ John better. That’s what I would wait for. I think it’s still safe to buy

⏹️ ▶️ John Intel computers. And, you know, we brought this up months and months ago when I was talking about the the very

⏹️ ▶️ John rare possibility that I will be buying like the last Intel based Mac Pro, like before

⏹️ ▶️ John the arm transition. I have no idea when when and if the entire Mac line will transition

⏹️ ▶️ John to arm or if they would just do the laptops or who knows whatever. Like, but I’m resigned to the fact that it could

⏹️ ▶️ John be that I spend this huge amount of money. And then the next big announcement related to the Mac that Apple has is, guess what? Everything’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going arm. And here I am with this giant boat anchor. Like I’m I’m OK with that. Like I’m I know

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a real thing. I’m signing up for it. Like I because the thing is, and

⏹️ ▶️ John my because of the corner that I painted myself and I love how I’ve turned this question to a Mac Pro thing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because of this car that I’m painting

⏹️ ▶️ John myself into. I’ve waited 10 years. If I said, you know what, at this point, I should really wait for the arm, Max.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, come on. Like, you have to, 10 years, you gotta just, you know, I made my bed, now I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna lie in it. So, anyway, I would say, James, it’s safe to buy one,

⏹️ ▶️ John safe to buy an Intel Mac, it’s probably not safe to buy any laptop with a butterfly keyboard in any

⏹️ ▶️ John form whatsoever. So wait for the new keyboard if you can, but don’t be afraid that you’re missing

⏹️ ▶️ John out on ARM stuff, like, especially with laptops. You’ll have a laptop for a year or two, and, you know, if they transition

⏹️ ▶️ John to ARM the day after you buy a laptop, you’ll still be fine spending that year or two on an Intel one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I pretty much agree. It’s gonna be, you know, I definitely agree that if you’re concerned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about longevity, do not buy a butterfly keyboard no matter what. You cannot trust

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them. Even the new, you know, new materials version from this past year, like, it’s unproven.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It might last a little bit longer, but we don’t know that. So it’s just, you can’t trust butterfly keyboards, period. So definitely wait on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. But once we have scissor keyboards, You know, we don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when, or really even if, we’re going to get our Macs. It could be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next month. It could be in five years. It could be never. We have no idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, even when the first ones come out, or if they come out, you might not want the very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first generation. The second generation might be a lot better. The first generation might have problems, and the first generation you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to deal with the software transition in a much more rough an early way than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you will if you wait a year or two. So really, those very first ones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they probably would be compelling in certain ways. I wouldn’t expect a huge performance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco jump. I would expect a big battery life jump, but not a huge performance jump. But those very first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones, they’re gonna have problems, they’re gonna have growing pains, and you’re probably not gonna want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be there on day one for the software landscape. You’re probably gonna wanna let that shake out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let all the developers update their apps for ARM compatibility for like a year or two first.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s not to say I’m not gonna buy one on day one. But, you know, I buy everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think ultimately, if you’re concerned with like longevity of a product,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can buy an Intel MacBook as soon as they have scissor keyboards again. And then you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can buy ARM whenever it’s time to replace that one if they’re out yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I just, I was thinking as you guys were talking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Would there be a compelling reason for them to maintain both Intel and ARM?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like keep the Mac Pro on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Intel stuff?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if they don’t wanna make a big beefy Xeon class ARM thing

⏹️ ▶️ John with all of the expensive PCI Express lanes and all that, like if

⏹️ ▶️ John that turns out not to be either, just not to be something they’re interested in. Like the

⏹️ ▶️ John big question, the only reason they wouldn’t do an Intel transition is if compatibility concerns end up trumping everything maybe compatibility

⏹️ ▶️ John is more important on the high end pro line because of software and you can’t get people port arm,

⏹️ ▶️ John but maybe not like it’s not clean, but today’s apple would

⏹️ ▶️ John absolutely do that if it made sense sort of financially and politically in terms of like getting

⏹️ ▶️ John software support for your weird arm max. I continue to think that the more likely scenario

⏹️ ▶️ John is that if Intel can’t get his act together, that everybody goes to arm. Like someone sends an email

⏹️ ▶️ John earlier this week was like, oh, you keep talking about our max, But I would never want that because my cool Intel Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ John I get to run Windows and Linux and blah blah blah. Like Linux runs on ARM, Windows runs on ARM.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it doesn’t mean all the software is ported and that’s always the problem. But you reach a critical mass

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s like, look, everyone’s stuff already runs on ARM. We’ve had these alternate ARM versions. How long does it take

⏹️ ▶️ John to switch from Intel being the default with ARM is this weird sideshow to the other way around? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John really entirely dependent on how well Intel executes. If Intel starts making

⏹️ ▶️ John good chips again, then the rest of the industry will just breathe a sigh of relief and get back on that train.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s not a safe bet anymore. So in the meantime, having ARM

⏹️ ▶️ John as a potential strategy for not just Apple, for everybody. And then if everybody does it,

⏹️ ▶️ John it becomes a lot less of a hassle and it makes much less sense to keep some portion of

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac line on Intel.

#askatp: APFS Time Machine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Alrighty, Adam Spellbring writes, I understand the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey basic reason why APFS can’t be used with Time Machine. APFS doesn’t support hard links.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But what I don’t understand is why Time Machine hasn’t been updated to use symbolic links instead. Do you have any insight as to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why they haven’t been made compatible yet? Is it a complete rewrite of the application? Or do you think it’s just not a priority since

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’ve made it work with HFS plus? And there are more pressing issues. Would there be any real significant benefit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to making Time Machine compatible with APFS?

⏹️ ▶️ John Minor correction, APFS does support hard links. It doesn’t support hard links to directories, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John this weird thing that Time Machine does. Sim links are not the same thing for a

⏹️ ▶️ John variety of reasons. As I think we’ve touched on in a few

⏹️ ▶️ John past episodes scattered throughout, there are obvious potential benefits

⏹️ ▶️ John to a time machine that is built around the capabilities of APFS, the ability to

⏹️ ▶️ John detect what has changed since the last time in an efficient manner and send just those diffs

⏹️ ▶️ John with the whole snapshotting functionality. Apple has been creeping up on that. So from the day APFS

⏹️ ▶️ John shipped everywhere, right? It’s been clear that

⏹️ ▶️ John Time Machine, if it was gonna work with APFS, shouldn’t just be like, oh, it works exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John way it does as HFS+. And Apple clearly agrees because they could have made APFS support hard links directives, but they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John because APFS has many other features that are better, particularly with its snapshot functionality, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John They’ve just been Apple has been really slow about, OK, well, when Apple, are you going to rewrite time

⏹️ ▶️ John machine to take advantage of all these cool features? And every release, there’s been one more little thing that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a stepping stone to that. I think we talked about it when after WWDC,

⏹️ ▶️ John the file system session, if you watch that or listen to our episode where we discuss that, which may have been several

⏹️ ▶️ John weeks after WWDC because there were a lot of announcements. We have recently

⏹️ ▶️ John taken another big step towards that. Does it mean that the next major version of Mac OS will

⏹️ ▶️ John have the new time machine rewritten for APFS? I doubt it. Apple tends to go slow on things related to file systems

⏹️ ▶️ John and even slower on things related to the Mac. So I’m not holding my breath, but that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason. That’s the reason why you don’t just see them making it work the same way it does with HFS+. If you want it to work the way it does

⏹️ ▶️ John with HFS+, use HFS+. It’s your only option right now. If and when Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John finally brings this project to fruition, we will have a much better time machine that is more efficient,

⏹️ ▶️ John faster, more reliable, hopefully, than the HFS plus variant. but until then,

⏹️ ▶️ John delay is explicable if annoying.

#askatp: Letterboxd

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And finally, Andrew Myers writes, this is an all Syracuse SKTP it seems,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, do you have any advice on getting started with Letterboxd or as you would say Letterboxd?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And apparently Letterboxd has thoughts about how to get started on Letterboxd. So tell me, what do you do

⏹️ ▶️ John there? I love how I’m converting you to say Letterboxd,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey despite the fact that,

⏹️ ▶️ John let it be known that that is not how the product wants you to say it. They want you to say it as Letterboxd. I think they

⏹️ ▶️ John came in just at the tail end of the vowel dropping, like, you know, Tumblr and Flickr and you know, like, so it

⏹️ ▶️ John should be letterboxed with Ed at the end, but they drop

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway. That’s how they want to say it. But I continue to say letterbox. D. Um, it’s a website that’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of like a social network for people who enjoy movies. But when you think of that, you

⏹️ ▶️ John start to cringe like, oh, social network. I don’t like that. Think of it as like what Flickr was like when it was

⏹️ ▶️ John just like a bunch of nerdy cool people doing pictures or maybe like Instagram in the really, really early

⏹️ ▶️ John days. Letterbox D is still small enough, that’s what it’s like. It’s a small community of

⏹️ ▶️ John nice people who like movies, who when they watch movies, they record something about

⏹️ ▶️ John the minimum you record, the fact that you watched it, you could also give it a rating, you could also write a small review

⏹️ ▶️ John and then you follow people on it. And if you’re interested in,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, you say like, what, what movie should I be looking, uh, looking for? There’s obviously the things that are new releases

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, but if you go to your letterboxd homepage, you can see here are the movies that are popular with the users like

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s probably like all the new releases or the big new Marvel movie or whatever you know then you also say here are the movies that are popular

⏹️ ▶️ John with your friends your five or six or ten or twenty or hundred people that you follow what movies have they been watching

⏹️ ▶️ John lately and depending on who you follow that list is very different from the popular list if you follow a bunch of people are into weird

⏹️ ▶️ John arty movies you’ll see movies that you’ve literally never heard of and then you get to see someone maybe someone that you know

⏹️ ▶️ John has watched it maybe they’ve rated it and maybe they’ve written a review or if you know them And personally, you can, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, I’ve done this a few times and I don’t think it’s too weird to say, Hey, I saw that you saw this movie. You know, I know

⏹️ ▶️ John that because you posted it publicly on Letterboxd. What did you think of it? Tell me about it. It’s how I I’m into

⏹️ ▶️ John movies and it’s how I find new movies to watch other than just being like, Oh, what are the new popular releases?

⏹️ ▶️ John The way I use it is I use it incorrectly, at least as far as the application. So I did send this feedback

⏹️ ▶️ John once. When I watch a movie, I rate it

⏹️ ▶️ John by rating it. It also marks it as viewed. So there’s two bits of metadata that appear for each movie

⏹️ ▶️ John that I watched. There’s a star rating. It’s zero to five stars. Actually, it’s a half to five. I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John you can rate it as zero. That’s just unrated. And then a bit that says whether you watched it or

⏹️ ▶️ John not. It also records the date that I did that, you know, sort of implicitly

⏹️ ▶️ John when I do it. I think what they want me to do instead is use their diary

⏹️ ▶️ John feature to record the fact that I watched a movie because then you can with a diary feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you do that, you can watch the same movie multiple times to say I watched this movie this month and then six months later

⏹️ ▶️ John I watched it again or whatever. I don’t use the diary feature. I just do the ratings. Um, and the

⏹️ ▶️ John other thing I do with it is when there’s a, when there’s a movie that I think I’m interested in, either because I, from the outside world, I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John heard there’s a movie that I might be interested in or because I go to the letterboxd homepage and see what my friends are watching.

⏹️ ▶️ John I add it to my watch list. I’m like, Oh my, a bunch of my friends seen this movie and they’re saying good things about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would like to see that too. It’s usually like new releases, especially, you know, I don’t get to the movies that often these days.

⏹️ ▶️ John So there may be a movie that’s out in theaters and lots of my friends are seeing it. I think it’s good and it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like the type of movie I would like, but there’s no way I’m going to get to a theater to see it. I add it to my watch

⏹️ ▶️ John list. If I didn’t do that, I will forget that movie exists. I will never think to look for it in iTunes.

⏹️ ▶️ John I will just completely, you know, when it comes out on on video, as we used to say, like, you know, one to

⏹️ ▶️ John six months later or whatever, I’ll forget about it. So I add it to my watchlist. Anytime I want to watch a

⏹️ ▶️ John movie, I go to my watchlist because there is a giant list of movies that I’ve already determined

⏹️ ▶️ John are things that I want to see. And I’ll find a movie there. You can click through to the site. It links

⏹️ ▶️ John to or something where you say, where can I see this movie? And it lists all the streaming services and I subscribe to

⏹️ ▶️ John all of them so eventually I can either see it or rent it or buy it or whatever. However, that’s how I use my

⏹️ ▶️ John Letterboxd account. I wish that every time I rated it, it counted it as a diary entry,

⏹️ ▶️ John it counted it as me watching it, but it doesn’t. I can still sort my movies by like

⏹️ ▶️ John order that I marked them as watched. Like I said, it does record that timestamp, but it’s not at the end of the

⏹️ ▶️ John year, it gives you this fun thing that says, here’s your year review and here’s all the movies you watch. And at the end of every year, it thinks I’ve watched zero movies

⏹️ ▶️ John because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it only counts that I watched them

⏹️ ▶️ John because if you do the diary entry thing. So I’m still struggling with that a little bit. But anyway, Letterboxd

⏹️ ▶️ John is free, although you can give them money in various forms to keep them in business. I highly recommend you do that. I

⏹️ ▶️ John do pay the money. I don’t think paying the money gives you any features. I think it’s just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John hey, you want to keep using this thing? Give us money. It’s really cheap. It’s like, I think it’s like 20 bucks a year

⏹️ ▶️ John or something. I don’t know. I remember it is anyway. Pay for it. It’s really good. It’s kind of like Marco said a

⏹️ ▶️ John little while ago that Instagram was his happy place for social networks, where only good things happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, I follow a very small number of people, and it’s mostly my

⏹️ ▶️ John happy place to find movies that are out that a bunch of people that I know or trust

⏹️ ▶️ John think are good, and I go there when I have, you know, recreation time and I want to watch a movie.

⏹️ ▶️ John I forgot the little thing where the Letterboxd Twitter, official Letterboxd Twitter account gave links,

⏹️ ▶️ John which we will put in the show notes, to their own instructions on how to use their website. I just described how I use it. I could be

⏹️ ▶️ John totally wrong. Anyway, slash welcome. And there’s another one with

⏹️ ▶️ John frequently asked questions. So please follow those links to learn how you’re really supposed to use the site rather than

⏹️ ▶️ John just how I use it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, Bombas, Handy, and Backblaze. We will talk to you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how this did max

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dark hand done

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using seven

⏹️ ▶️ John analysts was acting attended

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again then the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at and if you’re into Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco c-a-s-e-y-l-i-s-s so that’s Casey Liss, M-a-r-c-o-a-r-m,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco D-n-t, Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-i-r-a-c-u-s-a Syracuse It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John mean to Accidental, check podcast so long

Neutral: Tiff’s new i3s

Chapter Neutral: Tiff's new i3s image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In our garage is Tiff’s new BMW i3.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You guys really like getting oddly shaped BMWs, don’t you?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, here’s the thing they really don’t like doing. They really don’t like shopping for cars. That much is

⏹️ ▶️ John clear.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That actually played

⏹️ ▶️ John quite a role. We spend so many shows talking about all the cars that you should test drive. And kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey, too, rather than going out and test driving all or, let’s say,

⏹️ ▶️ John any of the suggestions, you go to the BMW dealership and come away with a car. Like you go to

⏹️ ▶️ John one place and buy the first car that you see. Not that I’m saying that’s the wrong choice. Like I think you probably made the right choice, but you always

⏹️ ▶️ John skip over this step where you test drive all the different cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will have to maybe get her on here next week. And I would like to drive it myself too, cause I haven’t yet, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco she doesn’t drive that much. We didn’t care that much about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco process and this pick this time. We didn’t want to spend all that time going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole bunch of different places, test, right? I’m a whole bunch of different things. And there’s other factors that, that, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco factor in here, like by trying things from different brands that also means if you go to different dealerships and certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dealerships are closer or further away, other dealerships that we haven’t been to before are unknown of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, how easy is it to get service and stuff like that. And this was a really easy option. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had a BMW lease to turn in. We could get another one from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same company two months early and very, very easily with a really good price

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because her car that we were trading in had like no miles. So it was so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we knew we had some strong bargaining chips and that it would be really easy. And we know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the close BMW dealership is not only again close, but we know that service there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is super easy when necessary. We didn’t want to test drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like, you know, three weeks going all all over the place trying to find all these models to test drive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We really just wanted to have to have it be done, and this was an easy option, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was so funny. Like Tiff got in the I three, Tiff and Adam both, and they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both like, all right, this one’s good. Let’s get this one, and then like Tess drove

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, and she was like, yep, this is great. All right, let’s do it. Let’s just get it and be done. I like how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Adam had an opinion. He’s made of us. I mean, of course, he’s an opinion like he’s so he instantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got in the backseat. he’s like, I like this one. Like, you know, from the backseat point of view. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was, so again, we’ve only had it for like two days. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not like a full review or anything. Again, just like the AirPod Pros. But initial impressions,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I haven’t driven it either, but initial impressions, it’s really quite nice. First of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all, I love how much space we have reclaimed in the garage. It is shocking

⏹️ ▶️ John how much shorter it is. Again, the major performance attribute of TISCAR is how much it

⏹️ ▶️ John impinges on Marcos car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s all that matters.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was kind of funny. So the process of getting it, so we went in, we’re like, hey,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re interested in the i3, let’s test drive one. And they are about to be between, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they are between model year production right now. Like they no longer are making 2019s, they’re starting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make 2020s, but you can’t place an order for one right now. like we’re in like a gap of a few months

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where you just can’t order one. So it was either wait

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until after her lease expired by a couple of months before getting a custom ordered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one for 2020 at some unknown price, or take advantage of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a really quite compelling lease special that made the 2019 one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very price competitive with the rest of its category, which it usually is not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But they had a really strong lease special to clear out the 2019s, as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long as we could find one in local inventory that we wanted, because we couldn’t order them anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it turns out that there was one that we test drove that was a demo model

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that only had like 100 miles on it, and because it was a demo, it was fully loaded. The only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco downside maybe is that it has the range extender, the little gas engine that can like add something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like 60 miles or so of range to it. If we were gonna order one, we would have ordered it without that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just because we don’t need it, and it just adds weight and cost. But it seems like all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco local stock always has the extender. So we did have to get that by doing it this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. But otherwise, it was everything we wanted. And because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was a lease special and a slightly used store demo model,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we got a really, really good lease

⏹️ ▶️ John deal on it. This is another AirPod situation again, isn’t it? With the demo model.

⏹️ ▶️ John So how many butts have been in that seat? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco goodness. Well, it only had 100 miles on it, and the test drive route is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good four or five miles long. So 20

⏹️ ▶️ John bucks, maybe? Like a 20-buck car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got? Yeah, maybe something like that. Yeah, and so it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was kind of funny, too. We have put so little time into this. We’ve had this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car in our garage now. It’s driven a couple times for Aaron so far, but we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still haven’t charged it yet. I still haven’t found the charger. I know it came with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one. I assume it’s somewhere in the vehicle in some kind of compartment or something. It took until this morning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before I even found like the gas hole, so like we need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John to put gas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in at

⏹️ ▶️ John some point the gas hole. That’s what they

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco call it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhere. There’s a there’s a there’s a hole that we put gas into and I knew where the electric plug

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was, which is where the gas hole usually is on cars. So like where’s the gas hole and eventually found it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if learn that you’re the gas hole. Yes, I was the asshole all along. How big

⏹️ ▶️ John how big is the tank on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ John thing? 2.5 gallons. That’s great. Like one of those, one of those little things that you carry the gas station, that’s the full tank.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh my gosh, that’s true. It doesn’t actually drive the car, right? It just, it just charges the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery, right? Yes. It doesn’t drive the wheels at all. It’s like a motorcycle engine and all it’s just like a little generator basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Uh, it just, it just recharges the battery. Uh, but yeah, so we haven’t like done any set up yet. We haven’t even put the easy pass

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in it yet and I haven’t even disabled the incredibly loud beep of the unlock when you use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remote to unlock it. The very first thing I ever did with any BMW is disable that beep. Thank God you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can, unlike some vendors. But, but yeah, haven’t even done that yet. So we’ve done very little of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But so far, it seems really nice. And again, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we just didn’t care to go do 1000 things. So it was a super easy thing to just go get this one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was a lot of things we wanted for a really good price because of the various specials

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and discounting and the trade in that we had for her last lease, we got a fantastic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deal on what this car is. Because it’s fully loaded. And so, and we got a great deal even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on, like what would have been a great deal on a base model. And we paid that for a fully loaded one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, it’s very, very nice so far. And it’s funny, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I was, as we were in the dealership a couple of nights,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they had an M2 sitting on the floor. So I sat in it, moved the seat up and everything. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was like kind of playing around. I didn’t want to test drive it because we didn’t have time and it wasn’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was like blocked in by other cars inside the showroom. So I knew it would be like an ordeal to get it out. And I’m like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not gonna bother with that. But I was like, man, I loved my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little 1M that I had very briefly. And the 2 Series, like the M2 is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shockingly close to the 1M. Like they’ve changed very little about it. Like even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the interior is the same. Like, it’s extremely similar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, it has proper cup holders, whereas the 1M just had a little like loop, didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? Oh, you’re right, the 1M had this weird little like stick-in thing into the center. But yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s a little better, but not much. It’s very lightly edited.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, I was, and I was like, you know, I wish,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, for the second car need, if it were up to me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my pick would just be an electric two series. Like that’s, the two series, I love the two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco series because you sit up at sedan height, but it’s a small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little coupe. Like most small sporty cars, you’re basically sitting on the ground. Like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sit so low, and I don’t love that perspective, or some of the safety issues that it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has. And with the two series, you sit almost at regular sedan height, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re in a small car. I like that a lot. So all this time I was thinking like, man, I just can’t wait. I just want BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make an electric two series. That would be perfect. And what’s interesting is that the i3

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a lot closer to that than I expected it to be. It’s, it actually is almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an electric two series in so many ways, like in an approximate footprint, in the,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a lot of the design of the interior, a lot of the features that are offered, the features that are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not offered, it really is actually very close to what I want.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what’s interesting, just being a passenger so far, the visibility inside is fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like you get these huge windows and you’re sitting up almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at crossover or compact SUV height, but not quite that high, but it’s close. So like you have a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great perspective, you have great visibility. And it feels, again, so only as a passenger,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it feels really zippy and quick. Electric just feels so glorious.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like as soon as we got into that car, tiff-steps on the gas, I was like, I can’t buy an M2.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t have non-electric ever again. Once you go electric, it ruins

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you. It totally ruins you. So far, again, we’ve only had it a few days,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I still haven’t driven it. But so far, we’re pretty happy with it, actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Muckerman Good. Well, congratulations. Everyone I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey spoken to has an i3 or has had an i3 I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a hard time getting past the look of it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but… Oh, it looks completely ridiculous. But you get past it real quick when you see how little space it takes up in your

⏹️ ▶️ John garage. You were comparing it to the M2, and I understand what your point was, but it is not

⏹️ ▶️ John shaped like the 2 Series at all, externally. And that’s the reason why

⏹️ ▶️ John it has the visibility of a big, tall, weird van with the nose

⏹️ ▶️ John cut off, off. Like I’d say, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a large,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a, it’s a miniature minivan with like, and those are all good attributes. I’m just saying like externally,

⏹️ ▶️ John it shares nothing with the, with the M two, but, but it is a small car and it is zippy and

⏹️ ▶️ John you, you know, you do sit up higher in it. And so that all makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, by the way, I think the reason why everyone’s like, you know, Casey said, like everyone who has an I three

⏹️ ▶️ John loves it, this has been true for many years and will continue to be true because we’re in this period.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like when anybody gets their first electric car, they’re going to profess that they love this car,

⏹️ ▶️ John no matter which electric car it is, right? And so I three owners like chances are very high. This

⏹️ ▶️ John is the first electric car and they’re going to rave about it up now, especially because it’s quirky because it’s shaped weird because

⏹️ ▶️ John it has all the attributes the cars didn’t have before because it doesn’t have to have a big engine in it. And it’s got that whole tall

⏹️ ▶️ John van thing with the big visibility. Of course, they’re all going to say they love it. The question to ask any of those people is how

⏹️ ▶️ John many electric cars have you owned, right? It’s probably their first one, right? Same thing with Chevy Bolt

⏹️ ▶️ John owners, same thing with the Leaf owners. Everybody who has, who gets their first electric car loves it and attaches

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of love to that car. Even the GM EV people, like the EV1, the GM lead acid battery,

⏹️ ▶️ John those people love their cars because it was their first electric car because it was anybody’s first electric car. So keep

⏹️ ▶️ John that in mind when you hear people raving, and we see it in the chat room anytime we mention stuff. The Leaf owners all love their Leafs, the i3 owners

⏹️ ▶️ John all love their i3s. This is just a weird human incarnation of what Marco was

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about, which is electric cars. They’re good. And when you get your first one, you decide that

⏹️ ▶️ John this it’s not the electric cars are good. So this car is good. It’s like when you get your second or third, you realize actually what you like

⏹️ ▶️ John is electric cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And because, yeah, they’re really good. Turns out like it is electric

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars are so disruptive because the only problem for so long has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been price and a limited number of models. And those are both getting better pretty,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty quickly now. Like you’re getting a lot more model options now in the market and the prices are coming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down. And so like if you can go electric, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco strongly recommend it. It’s so, oh God,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so

⏹️ ▶️ John good. And if you want to be extra super woke, you can, uh, counter what Marco just said

⏹️ ▶️ John and say, actually electric cars aren’t disruptive at all. They’re just a replacement of internal combustion and

⏹️ ▶️ John cars with a different way to accomplish the same thing, but they’re perpetuating

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco our car-centric culture

⏹️ ▶️ John and not helping with congestion. And what we really need is modern public transportation and cities built around people and not cars.

⏹️ ▶️ John I agree with all of that. But on the smaller scale, what Marco said is true, they are disruptive

⏹️ ▶️ John to the internal combustion engine. So we need to do all these things. We need to replace internal combustion cars with electric cars.

⏹️ ▶️ John But we also need to largely replace cars with better public transportation and cities

⏹️ ▶️ John built around human beings rather than cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, fully agreed, but most of that stuff is not gonna happen anytime soon in the US.

⏹️ ▶️ John You never know. Like the associated meme is they show you pictures of some like city,

⏹️ ▶️ John like I don’t remember. It’s like, is it Finland? No, maybe it’s, I don’t know. It’s the Netherlands maybe. They show you what the city

⏹️ ▶️ John looked like in the 70s and it looked like a US city. And a mere 30 years later,

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks totally different. So yeah, it doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s also not impossible. So I hope

⏹️ ▶️ John we start trending in that direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In the meantime, electric cars are awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you have the means, he highly recommends

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. I was going to make that same joke and beat you to it. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John all right. Marco doesn’t know what that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from either, so that’s fine. I knew that was a line that is a reference. I don’t know to what.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. Yep. We should have some sort of rating, marking, scoring scale. Marco

⏹️ ▶️ John identifies that it’s a reference. There’s like one point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Marco knows it’s a reference

⏹️ ▶️ John from the correct form of media, whether that be

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco television or another

⏹️ ▶️ John point. And then Marco knows what it’s from. That’s like three points. And then Marco knows what it’s from

⏹️ ▶️ John and has seen it. That’s like the maximum score, I suppose.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That will never get there. That would only be like the wire.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John No,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’d be

⏹️ ▶️ John like friends, office. He’s seen a lot of stuff. It’s just we don’t, there’s not a lot of overlap. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not well versed in those things to be able to reference them.