Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

344: Peace in the Battery Kingdom

iPhone 11 details and reviews, Apple Arcade’s soft-launch, and Casey’s tale of woe.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. 🏳️
  2. Donate to St. Jude
  3. Single-vendor CC numbers
  4. Apple presenter names
  5. Midnight Green
  6. U1 and UWB
  7. iPhone 11 Pro battery
  8. Two-way charging
  9. Upcoming OS releases
  10. AppleCare+ by subscription
  11. Sponsor: Linode (code atp2019)
  12. iPhone 11 reviews
  13. Sponsor: Clearbanc
  14. Apple Arcade soft-launch
  15. Sponsor: ExpressVPN
  16. #askatp: Random ejects
  17. #askatp: Communities
  18. #askatp: Game controllers
  19. Ending theme
  20. Casey’s woes


⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hello, listeners. We had an audio issue this week that resulted in lower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audio quality than usual. We are very sorry about this. Maybe you won’t even notice,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the person who made the mistake can get away with it without too much embarrassment. It was an honest mistake,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and he feels bad enough already, so I won’t even name him.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, hopefully this will work, and God, if you need to use a Skype backup for some crazy f***ed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up reason than blame me. But you shouldn’t. You really shouldn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We need to talk about for the next to last time we need to talk about one very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey important thing which is the relay FM fundraiser for St. Jude last week when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we recorded the episode as they were at something like sixty thousand dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah they were somewhere in the sixties

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by the time within a few hours of the episode being released not only did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they cross the seventy five thousand dollar mark which was their goal they cross the hundred thousand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollar mark I believe the same day that ATP was released and so thank you from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the bottom of all three of our hearts and from all of relay even though it is not officially on relay obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are a i guess we could say sister show to relay it means a lot to all three of us and especially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to relay that that that are our listeners and everyone else have have open their wallets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and send money to st jude I can’t think of a better place to send some of your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hard-earned money than St. Jude. If you aren’t familiar with them, if you missed it last week, St. Jude

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a children’s research hospital that is in Memphis, Tennessee, which just so happens to be the hometown of Stephen Hackett, who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is one of the founders of RelayFM. St. Jude does incredible work with both research

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and treatment of childhood cancer. What St. Jude has decided is, hey, if you have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this god-awful situation wherein one of your children has cancer, let’s do what we can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to take away the one thing that we can really and truly control, which is the cost of treatment. And because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey treatment is so expensive in this country, because our country is so backwards in a lot of ways, it can be millions upon

⏹️ ▶️ Casey millions of dollars that is spent on one human being. You know, because St. Jude doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey charge their families, this money needs to come from somewhere. And guess what, kids? It comes from you and me. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as we’ve talked about in the last episode, you know, all three of us are spending some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an absurd amount of money on Apple products this year. As it turns out, we’ll talk in the after show about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how I’m signing up for spending even more money at Apple than I had originally intended this year. But nevertheless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually have not yet made my donation, but before the end of the month, I will be making my donation to, or our donation, I should say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to St. Jude on behalf of the List family. I encourage you, if you just spent $1,000 on a telephone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or several hundred dollars on a watch, I bet you can scrape together at least 100 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to send to St. Jude to help out families who are fighting and battling childhood

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cancer. I cannot think of a better organization to give your money to. I cannot thank you enough,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I ask you, if you haven’t yet contributed, to please think about doing so. Go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you can send any money their way, even $5, we’d appreciate it, but if you want to be guilt-free from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey having spent $1,000-plus on an iPhone 11 Pro Max or whatever you chose to get, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey spend like a hundred bucks, maybe even five hundred bucks on St. Jude. I think it is absolutely worth it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, consider it like a consumerism offset credit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s exactly right. I like that a lot. All right.

Single-vendor CC numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s move on and let’s talk about the follow up that I really wanted to put in last week I know you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been waiting with bated breath

⏹️ ▶️ John Before you continue I did happen to take a look at that the little follow-up snippet

⏹️ ▶️ John that you linked in the notes Do you want to say anything about that Casey?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I’d listened to it two or three days ago Why you yelled at me at the time didn’t you? So

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s what it is is you Casey? Saying that you have some follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ John and both me and Marco saying hey, wait a second We don’t do follow up an Apple event shows.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the clip you’re putting in. It says proof that we had to show. All right, just anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can put the link in. People can judge themselves. I’m just saying here, it’s not really helping your case. I’m vindicated. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey telling you, I’m vindicated. All right, moving on. The follow up from last week that I never got to. I know you’ve been super excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to hear about it. When we were talking about SiriusXM and how I was trying to, let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say I was trying to time shift some of the recording.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It feels like a lifetime ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it does feel like a lifetime ago. And I’d said, you know, I finally paid for SiriusXM,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I use this thing that Bank of America offers wherein you can make up a fake, well not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fake credit card number, it’s a real credit card number, but a one-time use credit card number in order to give to this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey company. And I had said, oh, they’ll probably put me in collections if I, you know, just let the credit card expire,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which was the theory I was going to have if I had problems canceling. Well, as it turns out,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this feature is called ShopSafe. And within days of of that recording, Bank of America

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sent the following, on September 20th, we are discontinuing our online ShopSafe service. At this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey date, you will no longer be able to use the service to create new ShopSafe virtual credit card numbers or make purchases online with safe ShopSafe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey virtual credit card numbers. So my grandiose plan to prevent me from having to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an uncomfortable conversation with SiriusXM if I want to cancel.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have worked in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey first place. Which wouldn’t have worked in the first place, but just go with it, was to use ShopSafe, which now isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to work anymore. By the way, ChopSafe was Flash only. And at the same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time this event, this email came out, I noticed that Chrome was saying, hey, we’re no longer supporting Flash coming soon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I think what happened was they just decided we can’t be bothered rewriting this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’re just retiring. So now you know, everyone, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. I know you were waiting with bated breath for all that time. And now, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sorry, I didn’t let you include this in the event show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, I’m telling you, it was so important. I got sidetracked a week, a week, John, a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week. See, that was so boring. I should normally cut it,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I had to leave it in as punishment. Yeah, as punishment.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s deserved. I can’t even lie. All right, moving on.

Apple presenter names

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, why don’t you tell us about other John’s theory about Apple presenter names, please?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah in our very long conversation about the Apple event last week We were talking about how some presenters

⏹️ ▶️ John were were announced or brought to the stage by saying their first and last name and some just had first name

⏹️ ▶️ John and Gruber had a theory that I found very convincing His idea is that

⏹️ ▶️ John you if you’ve been on the stage presenting at an Apple event before you get just the first

⏹️ ▶️ John name But if you’ve never been on the stage before you get first and last which I think for all the names

⏹️ ▶️ John in the presentation That works out for it’s kind of charming and sort of familiar

⏹️ ▶️ John and like we’re all friends here Like you remember Ann and it’s like honestly, I’m not sure I remember like

⏹️ ▶️ John this person may have been an Apple event before but there’s a lot of Apple events a lot of people and I can’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John remember the names of you know People I meet in real life let alone people on stage in a presentation But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that fits with the facts and it makes some amount of sense and I think it’s kind of adorable, but also

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s not maybe a great idea. So Apple, please consider first and last names,

⏹️ ▶️ John at least until they’ve been on stage, let’s say three times, because then we’re like, oh yeah, I know that person. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would even go even further. I would say first and last names and titles for anybody who isn’t on the executive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leadership page on the site.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there you go. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John or community name, or you could be casual, but put it on a slide, right? Behind them, you know? Yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John even better, yeah. Yep, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dig it. Thank you.

Midnight Green

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We were also told that Midnight Green, the color that I will be getting in a couple of days when I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be, that actually might be my third consecutive day visiting the Apple store, which you’ll hear about later.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Midnight Green, not a China thing. I don’t remember which one of us said we thought it might. I

⏹️ ▶️ John had heard it as a theory put forward that, oh, this is a thing in China, but it was just some random tweet, so I didn’t know if

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s any provenance. Lots of people from China wrote in and said, nope,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not us. My favorite feedback on this were the multiple people who pointed out like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, we said this must be from, you know, demand from somewhere else. Meanwhile, like everyone we know is getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco green. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I mean, a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John that is just because it’s the one different color and alongside space gray and white, silver or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. So, you know, people I think that what really shows is the appetite. As you said, I show Mark like you

⏹️ ▶️ John wish that the that the pro model had the vibrant colors and had more choice, but it doesn’t. So

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re lucky if you get one interesting color per year. And that’s what everyone’s going for. Poor Jason

⏹️ ▶️ John Snow pointed out that his red-green color blindness makes it so it looks exactly the same as a space gray run to him.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, in all fairness, many of the people who have them so far say it does look very similar to space gray, especially in low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lighting.

U1 and UWB

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Jason Snell had a really good article over on Six Colors about the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey U1 and what is it, Ultra Wideband? Is that right? Is that what he is? Yep, which is a really great read including

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a brief interview or some commentary from the CEO of a company that makes some of these chips. And it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds like, and maybe I’m reading this wrong, so correct me gentlemen, but it sounds like what it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of doing is almost like GPS, but at a very, very, very micro level.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you can get like a really good position of where you are in relation to another thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey based on just one of these chips and like a couple of antennas or something like that. Is that kind of a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey summary?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think so. Like it’s doing a time of signal propagation to locate things in the same way

⏹️ ▶️ John that the time of signals from satellites overhead lets you locate yourself on the earth. It’s just a smaller version of it. I would love to see

⏹️ ▶️ John the tear down and see exactly what the hardware looks like for this and how it’s incorporated. But yeah, this definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John sounds cool. We talked about it last week in terms of, you know, the one feature that Apple announced that uses this chip, which being

⏹️ ▶️ John you can point your phone at somebody else’s phone with a U1 and they will be the

⏹️ ▶️ John default top item in AirDrop. So, you know, of all the people listed or whatever. But

⏹️ ▶️ John of course, there’s all the rumors about those little tiles that you can stick on, which

⏹️ ▶️ John is a name, we call them tiles, which is so terrible. Tile is a company that makes a product like this. Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John probably will not call that thing tiles. But anyway, it’s a little tiny thing that you can stick on your belongings. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John if you lose your belonging and the little thing stuck to it, you could use your phone to find it with much greater

⏹️ ▶️ John precision than like, find my iPhone today, which will tell you that your phone is somewhere in your house and you can make it beep

⏹️ ▶️ John and listen for it like it’s a smoke alarm with a bad battery until you find it. But this presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John would give you a much more precise location, even a location that you could use with your fancy AR goggles to

⏹️ ▶️ John just look around and see where it is and yada yada. So anyway, link in the show notes to Jason’s article to give you

⏹️ ▶️ John an idea of what could be in store for us all with these Yuan chips and all the new phones.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A real time follow up from Ryan Jones. It’s more like radar in terms of operation than it is GPS. I said GPS earlier.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What I just meant was location, relative locations of things. But he is right that it works. As you had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, John, about the time it takes for signals to travel. And so it is more radar-esque.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that is a reasonable correction.

iPhone 11 Pro battery

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Speaking of things that were corrected, a lot of people pointed out to us, more than I expected, that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, you guys have been begging about iPhones to get thicker over time, and they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have been. And as it turns out, I had talked about that last episode, but Mark would justifiably cut it out because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we went for about 14 hours last episode. But yeah, the iPhones, if you look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at each individual line, so like the 10 to the 10S to the 11 Pro, they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are getting ever so slightly thicker, ever since something like the 5S and Joe Beninato

⏹️ ▶️ Casey put together both a chart and a graph that he had posted on Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we will link to in the show notes. But short, short version, they are getting thicker and the assumption

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that a lot of the games, the battery life gains in the Pro models

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is because of a combination of the phones just plain getting thicker and perhaps using some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the space that the 3D touch sensor was taking up in prior phones.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, as we record this, unfortunately, I only checked about an hour ago, the iFixit teardown isn’t up yet,

⏹️ ▶️ John so we’re still going by people’s speculation, but someone tweeted out a bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ John statistical speculation about the nature of the phones. This was, I think, even before the embargo broke or whatever, so I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not sure where they’re getting these numbers, but they have guesses for the increase in battery size for

⏹️ ▶️ John all the various phones, in theory, the iPhone 11, which, you know, or the X,

⏹️ ▶️ John the XR. The XR versus the 11 has 6% larger battery, and the XS

⏹️ ▶️ John versus the 11 Pro has a 20% larger battery and the XS Max versus the 11

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro Max, God, these names are killing me, has

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a 10%

⏹️ ▶️ John larger battery. So I’m mostly trusting the battery numbers because you can

⏹️ ▶️ John pull this from the devices or whatever. The really tricky bit in these specs

⏹️ ▶️ John that have been posted, again, unconfirmed, were people trying to measure RAM. And the theory

⏹️ ▶️ John here is that the iPhone 11 has four gigs, whereas its predecessor had three and the 11

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro has six gigs where its predecessor had four and same thing for the Pro Max but The six gig thing

⏹️ ▶️ John is a big question because I’ve heard a lot of doubts about that So anyway, all this is to say I can’t wait to see the

⏹️ ▶️ John iFixit teardown to find out Exactly how much RAM these things have and you would think with the embargo up you

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, what didn’t all those reviewers just ask Apple to tell them how big the battery is and how much RAM it has? Oh, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can ask Apple that but they don’t like to talk about those things And so they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John and so we would have to wait for the iFixit tear down I’ll be excited if the pros have six gigs of RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John because you know Why not like I just I do like to see RAM going up over time and they’re so powerful

⏹️ ▶️ John now There’s just they can they can do stuff with that RAM like I’m if they have pro right in the name They should have

⏹️ ▶️ John a huge amount of kind of like the weird thing they did with the iPad Pro We’re only the one that had a terabyte of flash had

⏹️ ▶️ John the extra amount of RAM But I think that’s a cool sort of pro

⏹️ ▶️ John level feature, and hey, they did put pro in the name. And the battery size, I think just based on the

⏹️ ▶️ John size and weight, which you can see in the graphs, it’s clear that something’s heavier in there, and the battery makes

⏹️ ▶️ John total sense that it’s larger. 20% bigger battery, nothing to sneeze at in the 11

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, no matter what the exact numbers end up being, so where we are right now is we don’t have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco teardown yet and none of us have phones yet, but the review embargo lifted this morning for all the press units that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco went out. And all the press reviews, all of them, even the ones from publications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are normally critical of battery life, like Joanna Stern at Wall Street Journal, all of them said the battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is significantly better. So whatever the numbers actually end up being, almost doesn’t matter. Like now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we know, okay, it’s a big deal. They made the battery bigger, and it made the battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life way better with the other improvements as well. So that’s just great news. And frankly, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really care about RAM, and I don’t really care about how they made battery life better, as long as they did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make it better, that’s fantastic, so that’s very good to hear. I can’t wait to get my phone. The only thing, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with all the press reviews, I mean, I don’t know if we’re jumping ahead here, but so far all the press reviews seem to agree

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the two major themes of the camera actually is significantly better in certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways, and also the battery life is significantly better, so those are great things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The one thing that the reviews have not seemed to say much about, or if they did say it, they said, oh, I can’t notice a difference,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the increased angles and distance for face ID. No one seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to really notice that, or they say it’s about the same. That’s the only thing about it that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m a little bit disappointed to hear, because that’s one thing I really wanted was improved face ID distance and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But we’ll see when we actually get these phones. But so far, the major themes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of battery and camera being significant upgrades, that’s good for me, and I’m happy with that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you see any reviews that actually test, like explicitly said they tested the face ID angle or even mentioned it at all?

⏹️ ▶️ John I haven’t seen any, no, but. So it could, I mean, it could be this not a thing that they, because the embargo

⏹️ ▶️ John was pretty tight in terms of like when they got the phones and when the embargo was lifted. So maybe there just wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John time to do that. And you know, the other features are obviously so much more important, but when you get your phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John try it against your XS and we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought Pansorino had said something about it, but maybe I’m making that up. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was, oh, here we go. This is from TechCrunch’s review by Matthew Panzarino.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now I’m quoting, “‘Oh, about that improved Face ID angle. “‘I saw maybe a slight improvement,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if any, “‘but not that much. “‘A few degrees, sometimes, hard to say. “‘I’ll be interested to see what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other reviewers found. “‘Maybe my face sucks,’ said Matthew.” So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, so it’s as you, I’m basically reiterating what you guys said. Nobody seems to be completely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey convinced from what I’ve seen, but Matt at least had mentioned it and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was kind of ambivalent about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, some of the gain is just iOS 13. Like iOS 13 made Face ID a little bit faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so they could be kind of lumping that in their claimed gains.

Two-way charging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. All right, moving on. The iPhone 11 lineup is said to include 2A

⏹️ ▶️ Casey charging hardware, but the software has it disabled. Now, we had talked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit about this idea last week and one of the things that we, and I think particularly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had said, was I don’t really feel like this is something I need in my life. I’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would enjoy it if I had it, but I don’t yearn to charge other people’s phones from my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone. But then a a lot of people wrote in and pointed out, yes, but what if this would allow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you to charge an Apple Watch without bringing the bespoke Apple Watch charger when you travel?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that, my friends, has dramatically changed my tune. Now, with that said, the Apple Watch, as far as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I knew, even the modern, even the brand new ones don’t support regular Qi charging. Is that correct?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think so.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I don’t know if they officially support it, but like, I think it might be able to get it to work

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s not like it, you know, It’s just got a coil of wire or whatever that you induce a current in. Although I can

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine it sort of working, but I don’t know what the official support situation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. Well, and the reality is like Apple could make it work with their phone. They could do that if they wanted to. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly. Yeah, that’s true too. But I don’t know if that’s if this is even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey true or not, but people are saying that the two way charging hardware may be there. And here’s another reason why we want to see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this iFixit teardown. But the software has it disabled at least for now, which is a very interesting approach.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’d be interested to see if that’s the case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I never considered the possibility, you know, I was also very critical of this, of two-way charging last week, saying like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why would you wanna kill your phone’s battery to charge something else, and it would be slow and everything. But I hadn’t even considered the possibility of like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using your phone as a charger for something else while your phone is plugged in.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, so therefore, yeah, you could just, you know, take the phone and the watch somewhere, and just take the phone charger and plug

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it in overnight with the watch on top of it with the phone face down. Like, you could do that, yeah. I still think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not an incredibly compelling feature, but maybe that’s easy to say somebody who doesn’t travel with an Apple watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it’s, you know, all the rest of the uses for it, I think are not incredibly compelling. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sure there’s a good reason.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, we’ve really left the Johnny Ive design error when Apple incorporates a pop socket on the back of

⏹️ ▶️ John their phones, which

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco doubles as a watch charger.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yes. Like you collapse it and it’s a perfect little watch charger. That’d be

⏹️ ▶️ John so bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good, but bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John Mike Early would have five of them.

Upcoming OS releases

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, moving on, still in follow up. It’s the follow up that does not end. The Apple release

⏹️ ▶️ Casey date matrix. So there are so many different pieces of hardware and software that are coming out at so many different

⏹️ ▶️ Casey times that our good friend John Voorhees over at Mac Stories has put together an entire page

⏹️ ▶️ Casey full of information about when what is being released and what and so on and so forth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is an incredibly long list.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s been confusing. I mean, the confusion continues. I think it’s on this list with Apple Arcade and what’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John state of that and what’s released when and can you get the things just on iPhones and iPads and what about the Apple TV version

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just yeah I’ve got a lot of stuff and it’s all kind of overlapping and all kind of interlinked with each other

⏹️ ▶️ John so if you get confused reference this page which I assume is correct as of our recording but

⏹️ ▶️ John who knows by maybe what time you listen to this things will change again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say you know on this topic you know as we’re gonna release this show about a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco day before iOS 13.0 is released iOS 13.1 is coming out in a couple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of weeks If you’re the kind of person who tends to wait until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the.1 update before you upgrade to the major OS, let me advise you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this year, wait for the.2. Because, you know, this 13.0,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which all the reviews noted, is a buggy mess. And it’s usable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know, when your new phone, if you’re getting the new phone, you’re stuck, you know, you have to have it anyway. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re not getting the new phone yet and you have a choice of when you update to iOS 13 point whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say wait, like one version past what you normally would update to. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you normally do it immediately, wait for 13.1. If you normally do 2.1, wait for.2.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because it is still like, like I’m on the, I was using the 13 beta

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the summer, and again like it’s usable, like your phone’s not going to melt, like it is usable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but 13.0 feels like a typical year’s like beta two.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And unfortunately, 13.1, I would say feels like a typical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year’s beta three or four still. Like it still feels like a beta. There are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still beta bugs. Like 13.1, I still have issues with mail,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the mail app. I have issues, 13.1 broke the way the navigation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar handles transitions in all apps, and to the point where if you happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have overcast on a 13.1 device right now, you can, this is a bug introduced in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco latest beta, go try to add a podcast via search, then hit cancel and go back to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco root menu, and the navigation items in the top navigation bar from the search will be on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco top of the ones that go in the other menu, and you’ll have a big stack of overlapping navigation items. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my word. I’m not doing anything crazy here. this is just a search controller and a navigation bar.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s like, this is like common things. And in the latest beta, they broke that. They broke the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco navigation bars work in like beta two of iOS 13.1. Like this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is what, this is the kind of bug we’re still dealing with here. So like, this is the kind of thing that again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like normally you would see this like in mid June in the beta cycle,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like not even July, you’d see this kind of stuff like in mid June. And that’s still where we are here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with what is supposed to be the stability release 13.1 that comes after the really buggy 13.0.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So this is still a mess. So I would, again, strongly advise, wait

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least one extra version past what you normally would before you update.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I finally installed an iOS 13 beta. I installed 13.1 on my iPad, and the

⏹️ ▶️ John first thing I did after it was installed was tap the YouTube app icon,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it sat there for a while and then YouTube crashed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s problems like Instagram too. Instagram has problems with the keyboard. Like if you’re typing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a comment or whatever the text on stories is called,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after a couple of tries of typing, the keyboard will just not appear anymore. Like it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a blank area. And if you tap where the keyboard should be, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco type out things. But you’re doing it blindly. You can’t see it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, it’s just there’s so many bugs like that. And again, like this is this is like beta

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two level bugs here, not 13.1 like that. We should not be seeing these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of bugs for a bug fix release that’s supposed to come out at the end of September.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Even the 13.0 GM is rough in the 13.1 beta is also rough. It’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not as bad as I had been led to believe, but it is not great. And I echo what you’re saying, Marco, if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re the kind of person that that is capable of waiting for plus one of what you normally do, I would do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s the thing, the big stuff seems pretty much fine. Like, your phone’s not gonna reboot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the middle of the day probably. It’s not gonna burn the whole battery down for no reason probably. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s just so many little paper cuts still all over the place that it’s like, I don’t think iOS 13 is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so great that you need it so fast. You know, I don’t think, you’re not really getting much by updating to it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that couldn’t wait a few more weeks for the next version.

⏹️ ▶️ John You get more icons on the springboard on your iPad. Yeah, that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John Although, speaking of the iPad, so I installed 13.1 beta, I tried to launch YouTube,

⏹️ ▶️ John it shows me the YouTube splash screen and crashes. What did I do after that? Of course I tapped the YouTube icon again,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it worked. That’s not reassuring. Like literally, I didn’t use the app,

⏹️ ▶️ John I tapped the icon and it crashed, and I tapped it again and it didn’t crash. Okay, 13.1, this

⏹️ ▶️ John is how we’re gonna do it, I guess. Just, I mean, it’s mostly been okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John to both of your points, like it’s fine, but it’s a little bit wonky sometimes and you don’t know why. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m, you know, I’m looking forward to 13.2. Yep, me too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so.

AppleCare+ by subscription

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, other news that has kind of slipped a little bit under the radar over the last week or so is that Apple Care

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Plus can be purchased in one lump sum for two years of service

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or coverage or whatever, but in general you can also treat it as just another monthly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey subscription because everything should be a subscription these days according to Apple and you can just pay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for it month to month.

⏹️ ▶️ John Was that in the presentation? I thought it was in the presentation, wasn’t it? Oh, if it was, I totally missed that. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it wasn’t. Anyway, I remember having questions about it after the event and

⏹️ ▶️ John saying, well, what do they mean by that? Is it monthly, like you’re just taking the lump sum and dividing it up

⏹️ ▶️ John into payments because you don’t want to pay it all up front? But no, the answer is you just pay a certain amount

⏹️ ▶️ John of month and you just keep paying that forever and ever and ever. And basically, Apple has

⏹️ ▶️ John reinvented insurance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it makes perfect sense. Like, because that’s, you know, what AppleCare Plus is on the phones is basically, you know, a fancy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco insurance. And before, your only option was buy it for two years or don’t buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. And have one year of limited coverage, and then eventually it became two years of accidental damage coverage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But now, it’s like you can still do that, or you can pay monthly, which will end up being a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit more money if you actually keep it for two years. But what’s nice about it is that it decouples that time interval from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. So now, you can buy it if you want to. You can still do the same thing you used to do and buy the two years up front for about the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same price. or you can just, you know, if you only keep your phone for a year,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. You can buy just one year of it and then stop it on that phone and start it for the next phone. If you keep your phone for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three years, I’m pretty sure you can keep the AppleCare going for three years.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, just do the math before you decide to keep your phone for six years and pay maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John insurance every time because that’s probably not gonna be a great deal for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I mean, if you’re the kind of person who like, you know, drops your phone on average of like once or twice per phone that you own,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like that could be significant. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I still don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buy AppleCare for my phones, but someone else in the family

⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs it right now, and I’m happy that we have it on that device.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s funny, I did AppleCare once in the past. I don’t even remember what phone it was on,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but this year I’m pretty sure I’m going to stop using cases for the first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time in a long time. And so this year I decided to get AppleCare on my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as discussed in the last episode, I can be caseless caseyless. And this way, if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do drop and shatter my phone, it will be considerably cheaper than it would have been otherwise.

⏹️ ▶️ John I need to look farther into this thing because my other question that I realized I didn’t put the answer to in the notes here is like,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you, can you buy this at any time? Like if I decide six months into owning the thing, can I start paying

⏹️ ▶️ John monthly for it? And the second question, can I interrupt it? If I started paying for it as soon as I got the device,

⏹️ ▶️ John but stop for a month, can I resume for a month? Like, what are the rules about, you know, because there’s lots of things

⏹️ ▶️ John that I’ve always wanted to do with computers. Like, oh, I’ll use it for the first year to see if it’s a lemon,

⏹️ ▶️ John and if it’s not a lemon, I used to be able to do this. If it’s a lemon, I’ll buy the extended warranty,

⏹️ ▶️ John but if it’s not, I won’t. You know, that type of thing. Or, you know, not being able to afford to

⏹️ ▶️ John pay it for a couple months and just being more careful with your phone, but then resuming paying for it later. I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know what all the rules are. I’ll look into it. If my interest stays, until next week, I’ll look into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. They had a thing with Apple Care Plus before where if you didn’t buy it up front, you could add it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco later, I think within a month, but you’d have to bring it into an Apple store and they would have to look at it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make sure you hadn’t already broken it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s the problem with buying it and then not buying it when the device is

⏹️ ▶️ John new. That’s always sort of the problem of, well, you bought it, then suddenly you drop your phone. What a coincidence.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, right, and this is the kind of thing too. And this goes into a lot of the stuff about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco repair law and battery servicing that we didn’t ever have time to talk about on this show, I don’t think, but that went on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last month. But anything about iPhones getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco repaired or replaced, you have to keep in mind, like we talk about it and we think about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as like the ideal case of people who have their stuff and they’re being honest and they break it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oops, let me get it fixed, whatever. But anytime Apple creates a way for you to transform

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a broken phone into a working phone, people will take advantage of it in giant scam operations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to basically like, you know, take like trashed phones and swap the serial numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and somehow bring them in. It’s like, there’s these giant like scams

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that run all over the world where people basically try to get free phones out of Apple so they can sell them and make a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of money. Like, so anything Apple does in this area, you have to also consider like, how could this be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used fraudulently at scale to defraud Apple? Because it will be. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever possibility is there, it will be exploited. And so you kind of have to consider, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever they touch this area, whenever they make it possible to get things repaired or replaced or whatever else, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s always that risk that you have to consider. you

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s done ♪ Now we should move on and talk about the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey press embargo that we’ve kind of been touching off of already. I’ve read Gruber’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey review, I’ve read a piece of the Verge’s review, Nealey Patel’s review, and I’ve read Panzerino’s review.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All of them seem to be saying the same things. I think it was Marco that said so earlier, camera’s great, battery life’s great,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phones are great, you probably want one. But I assume that the two of you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanna dig in a little bit deeper on some of this, so where shall we start?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I’ll start with Gruber, so you had a couple of interesting points that I hadn’t seen elsewhere, and

⏹️ ▶️ John particular things that people were speculating about during the event that actually turned out to be true. One of them

⏹️ ▶️ John is that, yeah, so things got three cameras, big deal, but the thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that people were saying that Apple would do well that a lot of multi camera phones

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t do as well as sort of making sure the cameras are well matched to each other, that when you

⏹️ ▶️ John transition from one camera to another, the colors don’t look different or the perspective

⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t weird or whatever. And Gruber said that basically like, not only are all the cameras the same,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you can smoothly transition between them like during a zoom motion or whatever, and you have no idea it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John even changing cameras. That’s the type of super cool magic that I would like. But in particular, I

⏹️ ▶️ John really am glad that the cameras are sort of calibrated to each other because that’s what you’d expect from an

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple device. And you don’t want your pictures to look different when you’re zoomed in. It’s bad enough that the apertures

⏹️ ▶️ John are different, which has some effect, but apparently they managed to paper over that as well. You can even do it while you’re shooting

⏹️ ▶️ John video. So you can be shooting video with your triple camera phone and zoom while

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re shooting video and while it’s recording the video, it will switch smoothly from one camera to to another, so it

⏹️ ▶️ John just looks like you zoomed in on the video, which is pretty amazing. The only exception to that is

⏹️ ▶️ John at the very tippy-top end of the capabilities, if you’re recording in 4K60,

⏹️ ▶️ John you are stuck with the camera lens that you started with, because apparently that is stretching the limits of the processor,

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s always something for next year’s phone, I suppose.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But, you know, that’s, so I’m a 4K60 shooter, I was tweeting about this earlier today, like, I don’t actually mind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this limitation because the phone has never been able to switch lenses during video. So like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for me, it’s just like, everyone else gets this one new feature except me, but I haven’t had it ever before,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t really ever need it. So I’d rather keep shooting 4K60 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoy my new dynamic range that I get with this new mode than drop down to 4K30 just to be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to zoom in.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s probably more important for photographs, though, because the experience, like this is part of the

⏹️ ▶️ John magic of the camera system and everything, all the software, that if you look at the back of the phone, it’s got

⏹️ ▶️ John these three things on it, but your experience from the front of the phone is you just have a phone with a camera. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t think about three cameras. I mean, I suppose you can if you’re a nerd and realize the aperture difference isn’t select

⏹️ ▶️ John them or whatever, but if you’re just using your camera, but just pretend there’s one lens back there and

⏹️ ▶️ John you can zoom in and zoom out. And it’s just like from the front face of the camera,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not

⏹️ ▶️ John the front face of the camera, from the front face of the phone, is just like you have a single really, really good camera. And that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John way it should be.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one thing I love about this too is like, the specs of them are much closer than they used

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be. So in the previous phones that had the telephoto and the regular lens, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco telephoto was never as good in pretty big ways. Like I think the first ones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think were even stabilized, were they? I don’t remember. But anyway, like on the old Plus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phones, I don’t think those were even stabilized.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Anyway, the-

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the Plus ones were stabilized, but the non-Plus phone wasn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That was the regular,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was the wide camera back when it was only wide cameras. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. But until the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 11s, the ones that have the telephoto camera, the telephoto lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had a much tighter maximum aperture. We mentioned this last week. And so the result was that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the telephoto camera did way worse in low light than the wide camera. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you get much more noise, to the point where sometimes the phone would actually evaluate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the conditions and would use a digital zoom on the wide sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in low light when you were using 2X mode because it was less crappy than actually using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 2X sensor because it was such a worse camera. And so the result of that was that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these last couple of years I’ve had the 2X camera with the X and XS, there were a lot of times where I just wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it when I wanted to because the image quality was just so much worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And with the 11 family, with the 11 Pro specifically, that’s the one that has the telephoto,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it isn’t exactly the same between the two, but it’s a lot closer. Like before it was f1.8 versus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco f2.4, now it’s f1.8 versus f2.0. And I know these numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t sound like a big difference if you aren’t a photographer, but trust me, 2.4 to 2.0 is a huge increase in light,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and 2.0 to 1.8 is a relatively small jump. And so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a surprisingly close match now. So the telephoto is almost as good,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they’re both stabilized. The wide is not stabilized, and you don’t need stabilization

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nearly as much on a 13 millimeter equivalent lens as you would on a 26 or a 52,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s, you know, I would like it to be stabilized just to have that across all three, but again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I understand why it’s not. But yeah, like it’s, I’m really happy to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that all three lenses are almost optically the same quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and have the same features and everything else. So like, you don’t, with this phone, Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re no longer having to make a ton of trade-offs between like, all right, well I wanna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shoot telephoto, but then I’m gonna have crappy low light performance. I wanna shoot 4K60, but I’m not gonna have good dynamic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco range. There are very, very few of those little tricks and exceptions and trade-offs you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make between the cameras now, and that’s really great.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, speaking of trade-offs, another one is that night mode is not available on the

⏹️ ▶️ John ultra-wide lens due to hardware change. describe this

⏹️ ▶️ John as, I’m assuming this is coming from Apple, doesn’t have 100% focus pixels like the other two lenses do.

⏹️ ▶️ John So on camera sensors there are a certain number of parts of the sensor that

⏹️ ▶️ John are used for focusing and apparently it doesn’t have enough of them to do night mode. I’m not sure how the focus

⏹️ ▶️ John pixels are related to night mode but anyway it sounds like it’s a hardware limitation and so tough luck. But

⏹️ ▶️ John you know that’s, again there’s got to be something for next year. Like what do they do to improve this? Well are all the cameras as good

⏹️ ▶️ John as they could be? Are they all identical? This is a big leap over like as Marco was saying last year, but

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s still room so don’t worry they’ll find a way to improve the camera next year too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of the really funny parts of Gruber’s review which one of you I guess John put in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes was when he was talking about how he needs to adjust his grip so he said the ultra wide lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is so insanely wide that I need to learn a new phone grip while shooting photos. I caught my finger in the frame several times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey while shooting ultra wide photos and he actually includes a picture of him and how he holds the phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when he’s shooting and I guess he’s holding it wrong because as it turns out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can I guess you can see some of his finger in the frame that he captured and if you look at the picture that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he posted of him holding this phone you would never in a million years think that any of his any part of his finger was anywhere in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John frame.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah he’s not blocking the lens at all this does not bode well for me because I get my fingers in the frame now without

⏹️ ▶️ John an ultra wide lens. I need to just get it I was thinking about this when we were talking about the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’m thinking about that little bulge on the back or whatever. I know there’s lots of

⏹️ ▶️ John like meme images going around making the camera cluster look like a stovetop

⏹️ ▶️ John with little stovetop rings or whatever. They say next year there’ll be four and it will look like a real stovetop and they show like a little camera

⏹️ ▶️ John square with four cameras in it. I don’t think they’re going to four cameras next year. Who knows?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean again the Gillette Razor thing we’ve already covered. But I am thinking about

⏹️ ▶️ John assuming next year’s phone, great we’re talking about next year’s phone already. Assuming next year’s phone is like the redesign year

⏹️ ▶️ John where we’ve had a couple years of this similar form factor and next year is you know I don’t know a flat-sided

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone SE look and shape or who knows what is it like a redesign redesign I was thinking of how

⏹️ ▶️ John will they arrange the cameras on the back of the fancy model so you’ve got three cameras it’s kind of weird

⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re in a square now I know they tried to sort of work it out by saying well we also have the

⏹️ ▶️ John flash and the microphone and but like honestly if you You have three big circular things, putting them in a square

⏹️ ▶️ John is not particularly harmonious. Putting four in a square would work, but I’m not sure they’re going to go

⏹️ ▶️ John to four cameras. So I was thinking, well, do you go back to three in a line? Do you go to a triangle? Triangle is even more

⏹️ ▶️ John disharmonious with the Apple design aesthetic, probably with the whole round rack thing. But the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason I think in the context of blocking with your finger is, especially with wide lenses like

⏹️ ▶️ John this, the arrangement they choose and the position they choose in the back of of the phone has

⏹️ ▶️ John user interface implications in terms of how likely people are to actually cover the lens with their fingers or get their

⏹️ ▶️ John fingers in the shot. And you see a lot of this with other phones that choose different locations for their

⏹️ ▶️ John cameras. Some of them can be in the middle of the top. Back in the day, some of them were actually dead

⏹️ ▶️ John center in the middle of the phone. I don’t think anybody does that anymore. But I frequently find

⏹️ ▶️ John myself fumbling with my phone to make sure that A, I know where the camera is on the back

⏹️ ▶️ John of the phone, because it’s very easy, especially with my sort of monochrome case and everything,

⏹️ ▶️ John to not quite know which side is up or whatever. Often I feel for the volume buttons, either because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna use them as a shutter or because they let me know where the orientation is. And then I accidentally get

⏹️ ▶️ John some part of my finger in front of the shot and don’t notice until after I take it. So it’s actually a difficult problem because

⏹️ ▶️ John as much as we like to call these things cameras, if you were making an actual camera that was not a smartphone,

⏹️ ▶️ John you would never make it shaped like this. It’s not a good shape for a camera. It doesn’t have a grip. It’s really easy

⏹️ ▶️ John to get your hands in front of things. It’s not easy to hold or use with one hand. That’s why, by the way, I use the volume buttons because

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re trying to hold your phone in a precarious position and then also trying to hit the

⏹️ ▶️ John on-screen shutter button with your finger, that’s how you drop your phone. So I’m always trying to use the volume button for that purpose

⏹️ ▶️ John to be a shutter release and then end up taking a screenshot. And you know, bottom line, it’s not the world’s greatest

⏹️ ▶️ John camera. But those physical attributes, like to think that, oh, there’s nothing left to do with the phone design.

⏹️ ▶️ John Figuring out where to put your now three cameras and how to arrange them and how far off of the

⏹️ ▶️ John edge they are and if they should be in a line and if the line should be horizontal or vertical or they should be in a triangle pattern

⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe two of them should be on one side or one on the other. Like I’m coming with all sorts of very ugly scenarios

⏹️ ▶️ John that might have some advantages. But that’s what I’m thinking about. It’s gonna be interesting to see how many

⏹️ ▶️ John more fingers and fingertips we see in shots on the iPhone 11, especially with the ultra wide lens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Neelay Patel seems pleased with the battery life, especially, I didn’t get a chance read

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the entire review, but he had some very complimentary things to say about the battery life,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey including, quote, the iPhone 11 Pro Max I’ve been using every day for a week has consistently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey run for 12 to 14 hours on a single charge with over 10 hours of screen on time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reported in the battery settings per 24 hour period. That’s compared to eight to 10 hours of battery life at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey most for my iPhone XS Max. So that’s an increase of four to six hours.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, it’s very difficult to do battery testing. As many reviews pointed out, Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John is not helping here because they’re giving sort of times for their very narrowly defined tests, like

⏹️ ▶️ John video time, talk time, or whatever their measurements are. And nobody really has a good comprehensive battery

⏹️ ▶️ John test. It’s not an easy thing to do, especially from year to year. So what they do is they just use the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John and say, all right, well, I’m using this phone just like I normally use my phone, and here’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the battery life I get, and I can compare it to my old phone. Now, Gruber was nice enough to point out the battery

⏹️ ▶️ John percentage of his old phone to say, yeah, I’m comparing it to my old phone, but my old phone, according to the battery health thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John says 92%, so it’s not like it’s totally a dead battery. But the real comparison would be, what was

⏹️ ▶️ John the battery life for your XS when it was brand spanking new and you were reviewing that

⏹️ ▶️ John as compared to your 11 Pro? Again, I do not doubt that the 11 Pro is

⏹️ ▶️ John much better. I do believe it has a bigger battery, and I think all the reviewers can

⏹️ ▶️ John absolutely agree that it is much better than its predecessor, so thumbs up. But the difficulty of battery

⏹️ ▶️ John testing, like, and that’s not only is it difficult to test a battery, it’s difficult to talk to people

⏹️ ▶️ John about battery life, because you don’t know, you don’t know their life, you don’t know what they do with their phone. Maybe they

⏹️ ▶️ John play, let’s say, Pokemon Go all day. It will destroy your battery, it laughs at your battery, and

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, you can add an extra quote-unquote four hours, that’s like an extra five minutes of Pokemon Go. So

⏹️ ▶️ John if someone says, oh, I hit my phone, you know, the battery dies in the middle of the day. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing you can really say to them because like, however they use their phone, the battery is dying. I mean, unless they have, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John some sort of, you know, Facebook thing in the background, destroying their battery, assuming everything is working as

⏹️ ▶️ John intended. All you can really do is just buy a bigger and bigger battery case and maybe not play

⏹️ ▶️ John so much Pokemon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did you guys rejoin the Sterns? Because I have not had the chance to yet.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just pulled out the quote from her tweet. She tweeted this, It feels

⏹️ ▶️ John so good to write an iPhone review without complaining about battery life. Which is great! I mean, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the thing, it’s such a big advance that people are drawn

⏹️ ▶️ John to say, I have no more complaints. Which is not strictly true, like everyone would actually like more

⏹️ ▶️ John battery life, but if you make a big enough leap, they’re like, oh this is so much better that I feel like it is now adequate.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so it’s a time of peace in the battery kingdom on iPhones. Everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John says battery life is good. And it will take a year or two for people to go, you know what, I could

⏹️ ▶️ John use another three or four hours of battery life, and then Apple has to up its game. But we seem like we’re in a good spot.

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of this, and speaking of battery life, and the cameras, and all this other stuff, I was surprised when I saw a couple of people think that

⏹️ ▶️ John we had a negative take on the Apple event. And I just want to reiterate, putting

⏹️ ▶️ John the event aside, which we also have some complaints about their game now or whatever. I think this almost every year

⏹️ ▶️ John after the September event, and I think it again even more strongly this year, Apple doesn’t screw up the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John that much. These iPhones are really, really, really good products. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t even think of a year when I’d be like, oh, this year for the iPhone, it’s not good. Like the worst thing people can think

⏹️ ▶️ John to complain about is like, is it better enough over last year’s phones? Like, are you kidding?

⏹️ ▶️ John Forget phones, forget phones don’t exist. their new iPhones are really good. There’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing to complain about. It’s just a question of, yeah, but how much better is it? It’s like, you know how hard

⏹️ ▶️ John it is to make a product, a new product every year, where there is like nothing wrong with it and you spend

⏹️ ▶️ John your entire time arguing over the percentage increase in some stat that you care about?

⏹️ ▶️ John These iPhones are good. The iPhone is almost always good. And these are, I think, particularly good, right? And

⏹️ ▶️ John it kind of makes sense for it being like the third iteration in the same form factor. They’re really perfecting it, but they’re really

⏹️ ▶️ John good phones, people. The iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco are really good phones.

⏹️ ▶️ John And we are spoiled by every year Apple introduces an iPhone that’s a really good phone. You know, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know how else to express that. Like Apple’s really good at making phones and the iPhone is a good phone. And I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John people can say, well, it’s not the best phone in the world or there are better other phones from other manufacturers. Sure,

⏹️ ▶️ John fine, whatever, think what you want. But the iPhone is really good. And every year they introduce one and every year they

⏹️ ▶️ John basically, worst, you know, don’t screw it up, but at best produce

⏹️ ▶️ John an amazing product. If you buy one of these new phones, I think you will be very satisfied

⏹️ ▶️ John with your product and then Tim will put you on a slide.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and ultimately I would broaden that to say like the vast majority of Apple’s products,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every version of them is good. Like it’s, you know, we complain a lot about the ones that aren’t because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those are anomalies. Because, you know, like there hasn’t been a bad Apple Watch either. There hasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been really, I mean, there was a mediocre iPad. The iPad 3 had some minor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mediocrity to it, but like-

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to say bad things about my iPad 3. Also the Series Zero, maybe not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the Series Zero, it didn’t have like major hardware problems. It was just slow. It was no worse than the original

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone. Well, it was slower in the things it tried to do, but like, you know, it wasn’t that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it wasn’t like a bad product. I mean, I wore the Series Zero for a year and a half. It was fine. You know, every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Watch has been a totally fine, at least fine product. Many of them have really been excellent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco products for what they are. Every iPad has been at least fine. and many of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have been great. And yeah, every iPhone, you know, there have been like a couple of minor issues

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here and there like the antenna gate thing was a minor issue, not a major one. The iPhone 5 had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bunch of weird failures, like the home button failed pretty easily on that one. And like, there was like minor stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The bendy 6. Even that was not really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John That was, to Casey’s point earlier, which I would have made much more strongly, where Casey did

⏹️ ▶️ John have a very extensive section that was edited out of last week where he talked about the size of the phone going up,

⏹️ ▶️ John six was the thinnest, I think, right? Like that was- I believe so, yeah. That was as skinny as they got, and it was also

⏹️ ▶️ John as bendy as they got, and they corrected course. Like that’s, you know, but they,

⏹️ ▶️ John the phones have mostly been good. And I feel like this year, these phones are probably going to go down, and sort of down

⏹️ ▶️ John in history as, this was one of the good years. People who get these phones are probably gonna be super, because people love the XS,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you’re gonna get something that is better, faster, has a better camera, and the battery lasts ridiculously longer.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, who wouldn’t want that? Like, I’ll take that deal on a Mac upgrade any day of the week.

⏹️ ▶️ John Give me a note, it’s like, imagine if they upgraded the iMac Pro and it was as better one year

⏹️ ▶️ John later as this iPhone is over the iPhone that came before it that was already a phone that everybody liked and normally had complaints

⏹️ ▶️ John about. The iPhones are good.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean, what I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to say here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You would have me at, imagine if they updated the Mac something Pro every year. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the iMac

⏹️ ▶️ John fail one. Exactly, right. Well, you know, beggars can’t be choosers, but. Let’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John not even talk about and the Mac Pro is gonna be updated. Let’s get the first one out there. Oh God.

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Apple Arcade soft-launch

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey In the last 24 hours, Apple Arcade has kind of soft launched and I have not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey played with it at all yet because I’ve had bigger things to worry about. But apparently, John, you have fallen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in love with at least one of the games. Can you tell me what Apple Arcade has been like so far?

⏹️ ▶️ John I forget, someone mentioned that like, check in the App Store, you might be able to see

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Arcade, it might be available to you, but you have to be on iOS 13 or whatever. I think I had already installed

⏹️ ▶️ John the beta, or maybe I installed it for this, I don’t remember. Anyway, I went to the App Store thing

⏹️ ▶️ John and said Apple Arcade is available, and I signed up, and it’s like a free trial, or whatever, so you don’t have to pay anything, and I had Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John Arcade, and then I went into the little UI, which was a little buggy, and sometimes the videos would stop playing

⏹️ ▶️ John and the app would crash, but anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Welcome to iOS 13, John. Yeah, 13.1, remember,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that I’m using, the 13.1 beta.

⏹️ ▶️ John I went through I think most or all the

⏹️ ▶️ John games and downloaded like 10 of them just to try them out You know picking the ones that I thought would appeal

⏹️ ▶️ John to me And I knew about some of these games from the trailers and I you know I’ve seen stuff about them some of them across

⏹️ ▶️ John platform that I’ve heard of before or whatever and Then I you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I go I’m done with that I go back to the springboard and decide I’m gonna try out one of the games

⏹️ ▶️ John and the one I picked was was Sayonara Wild Hearts, which is prominently featured in a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of Apple’s advertisement. I’m like, oh, I’ve seen that one before. It looks interesting, I’m gonna try it. If you’re not familiar

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco with-

⏹️ ▶️ John Is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the purple driving to music one?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s a, I don’t know, I was trying to think when I was tweeting about this, like what is the proper name for this genre?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like arcade rhythm game. Some people used to call them like rhythm shooters,

⏹️ ▶️ John like Rez, or like, there’s lots of games that are in this family. It’s a genre, and I saw it, I’m like, oh, this

⏹️ ▶️ John is one of those type of games. I don’t typically like this type of sort of rhythm arcade shooter

⏹️ ▶️ John runner type thing But this looks like a cool implementation. I figured I would give it a try And I’ve got like 20

⏹️ ▶️ John other games that I’m gonna try turns out I didn’t touch any of the other games. All I did was play that game all last

⏹️ ▶️ John night I played through the entire game twice and then had my son play through it once

⏹️ ▶️ John on the television Which was a fun exercise because it’s not available on Apple TV Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I this is my experience with Apple arcade Marco was asking if there was going to be one good game.

⏹️ ▶️ John I only, literally only tried one game, and the one game I tried I thought was fantastic. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t like this genre of game, as I’m not particularly into this genre of game, I think the reason I like this

⏹️ ▶️ John implementation is it’s like, it’s, I’m not going to say it’s a simple version, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not punishingly difficult. It’s very inventive, it’s beautiful and stylish,

⏹️ ▶️ John I love the music, and it gives me, and it’s And it’s easy. I mean, it’s not super

⏹️ ▶️ John easy, but it’s easy enough that I didn’t get frustrated with. That’s usually my frustration

⏹️ ▶️ John with these type of things. And so for me, it was like the perfect Apple arcade game. I

⏹️ ▶️ John just love everything about it. I have quibbles with the surrounding story and framing

⏹️ ▶️ John device, but I don’t even care because it’s brief or whatever. And you know, the fact that I played the entire game twice goes show. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I would have paid $10 for this game alone. I paid nothing because it’s part of the free trial

⏹️ ▶️ John for Apple Arcade and it was totally worth it for me. And I haven’t even looked at all the other games which also

⏹️ ▶️ John look like they’re really good. So this could be anomalous because Apple spent tons of money

⏹️ ▶️ John getting developers to make these really cool games and they’re trying to get people on Apple Arcade and maybe the quality will go

⏹️ ▶️ John downhill. But having played a single game, I’m ready to declare that there is

⏹️ ▶️ John at least a single game that is worth $5 and that is Sayonara Wild Hearts. I recommend everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John try it, even if you don’t like this kind of game. Maybe especially if you don’t like this kind of game because this is such

⏹️ ▶️ John an appealing and inventive sort of sampler of this

⏹️ ▶️ John type of gameplay without being punishingly difficult and with an amazing soundtrack, which I also already bought. I bought the

⏹️ ▶️ John soundtrack for $10 because I’m so I bought because I buy music from the iTunes music store. It’s I preordered it for $10,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I paid nothing for the game, check it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would also say, I also joined the Apple Arcade seemingly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco intentional launch, but on the wrong day because the actual launch day is the iOS 13 launch day. Anyway, so I also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco joined it immediately just to see. I will say, you know, one problem I have with it is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they are launching with apparently about 100 games and I was unable to find more than like 20.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I don’t know how you really, like the app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John store is-

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like all games at the bottom, but then the app keeps crashing because the little video previews keep killing

⏹️ ▶️ John it. But there is a place where you can go to all games.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The App Store design is so low density that you only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really see five or six games unless you really start digging in. And I think that’s going to be a problem for them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think there really is a problem here that Apple Arcade, no matter how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big the catalog of games is, it’s not gonna seem big. It’s gonna seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, why am I paying five bucks a month for these six games that I can see right here. So that might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be something they have to work on. But otherwise, of the games I was able to find, I downloaded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five or six of them. The only one I played, I did try Sayonara, but I only used the touch controls and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I couldn’t figure out how to do that well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah, I was gonna say, so if you’re playing Sayonara Wild Hearts, remember that iOS 13 has support

⏹️ ▶️ John for PlayStation and Xbox controllers, and that is how I recommend playing this. I actually have

⏹️ ▶️ John warmed the touch controls a little bit. there’s an adjustable sensitivity and once I figure out how it wants me to play it, it

⏹️ ▶️ John is possible to play with touch, but don’t. I mean, hopefully you

⏹️ ▶️ John have an Xbox or a PlayStation controller, you just pair it and use the controller, that is the way to play this particular

⏹️ ▶️ John type of game.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I should try that. I also tried, the only one I’ve tried so far has been Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Motorways, which I believe is made by the same people as Mini Metro.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that is very good, Mini Metro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and Mini Motorways, it’s pretty cool. I’ve been playing it here and there. I had a little bit of problems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting past you know certain levels of busyness in my cities I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you know it’s really it’s a minor quibble it’s a fun game and I’ve been playing it here and there the last couple nights and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s fun so yeah I think you know I have a few more here I want to try but I think overall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these look like pretty Pretty good games.

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#askatp: Random ejects

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s finally bring back some Ask ATP. And let’s start with Steve who writes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve used iMac since 2003 and every single machine and OS randomly ejects my attached drives. I’m a professional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wedding photographer and I have two Drobo’s, USB and Thunderbolt, an OWC Thunder Bay, which is Thunderbolt, and a printer hooked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up to the ports of my 2015 5k iMac. Hmm, 2015 5k iMac you say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, all this has changed over the years and the results are always the same with various drives being ejected after

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sleep. It’s always random and changing them around makes no difference. No disasters have happened so it’s more annoyance

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than anything, although I can’t imagine this is helping these drives. The Drobo’s have spinning drives as they are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my entire image catalog and the OWC is solid state. These are all arrays but quote unquote

⏹️ ▶️ Casey regular single drives are also ejected when attached. I’m I’m not entirely clear what the deal is, other than,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or what the question is, other than what’s the deal.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this is a Casey situation here,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey where someone

⏹️ ▶️ John is tolerating a behavior from their computer over a long period of time that should not be happening.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know that’s not particularly helpful. It’s like, oh, it sounds like you have something wrong. Yeah, well, no doubt. But I think it is important to understand,

⏹️ ▶️ John it is possible to use a Mac with external drives over the course of

⏹️ ▶️ John many years and not have this happen. I have never had this happen, and if this started happening, I would be

⏹️ ▶️ John very upset and very afraid immediately because, especially in the days of HMS Plus, because

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not healthy behavior. Like I have multiple external

⏹️ ▶️ John drives attached to my computer right now. None of them spontaneously eject. I’ve used every interface

⏹️ ▶️ John you can imagine. USB, FireWire, various speeds, SCSI for crying out loud. They should not spontaneously

⏹️ ▶️ John unmount. And I’m thinking, I’m trying to sort of diagnose this remotely, I’m like, do you have a cat?

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco do

⏹️ ▶️ John you, like, is there, like, is, is there some kind of physical

⏹️ ▶️ John problem with the wire in your house? Are they undervolted? Are you overloading the circuit? Is your,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, power strip or UPS gone wonky? Like, I don’t, I don’t even know, but this is,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not a situation that you should tolerate. It is not good for your data. It’s not good for your

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware. It’s not good for anything. So I don’t, unfortunately, Steve, I don’t have the solution for you, but I just want to tell you,

⏹️ ▶️ John you need to do some, probably you need to move. I just start a new life in a new city with a new Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wow. So I think one thing that jumps out at me here is they’re ejected after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sleep. That’s the part. So when I when I first was reading the question and Steve was saying about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how you know the drives get ejected randomly that can happen as the machine is awake

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I found I have seen that before and that is the result usually of a bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB hub. But Steve is talking about both USB and Thunderbolt devices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and specifically said that they get ejected after sleep. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it could just be like, you know what, sleeping with computers is always a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit tricky and a little bit buggy and sometimes weird things happen. The technical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco process of sleeping and waking externally connected peripherals along with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the computer is complicated. And that complication, you know, something might just be getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco initialized in just the wrong order or there might be like one thing that’s plugged in like one USB

⏹️ ▶️ Marco device that’s plugged in that like the computer goes to initialize it and the timing of it messes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the other thing such that they take too long and they time out and they eject or something like that could be something random like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that so it could be not only not only could could it be like you know one of the drive enclosures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco causing the problem but it could be like any other USB or Thunderbolt device plugged

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into Steve’s computer at the time like this stuff is It’s very complicated when you get to this kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of level of like, devices powering on from sleep and having a whole bunch of stuff connected at once and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So who knows. The other thing I would say is, oh I hope Steve has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco backups of everything on those Drobos. Because that is a scary thought to say, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Drobo has my entire image catalog on it. Because Drobos are not known for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their reliability. I sure hope you have a backup, Steve.

#askatp: Communities

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, last time we did Ask ATP three years ago, we had a question from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Silva about communities. And we weren’t sure what Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey meant by that, but…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John was very sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I was totally sure, but I was obviously wrong. I had never heard

⏹️ ▶️ John of… All right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey continue reading. I’m sorry that I wasn’t clear enough on my tweet about communities, but I wasn’t referencing Nextdoor. I didn’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know what it was. My original question… Good. …was evaluated, girl. My original question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was about WhatsApp groups or Telegram, public or private, Discord, Slack, Facebook, Messenger,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and even IRC, basically non-iMessage messaging apps that are used by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey someone’s online community. I have a small group of people in my university class on Telegram and I participate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rarely in some open-source communities and there’s a bit of fragmentation nowadays. Also, any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey updates on Marcos Beach Community Facebook migration project?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So this type of community is basically, I want a bunch of people to have

⏹️ ▶️ John some kind of community online. I mean, there may be some physical locality or they may be at the same university, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not like next door where you all have to live near each other. It’s just like, I don’t know, you’re like for discord or whatever, people who

⏹️ ▶️ John play a particular video game together or just a bunch of friends who live all across the country. Where do you

⏹️ ▶️ John meet and discuss? And although we don’t use it that much in this country and then not personally, things like

⏹️ ▶️ John WhatsApp are much more popular elsewhere in the world. Facebook is popular with all the

⏹️ ▶️ John normal people who don’t realize how evil Facebook is And IRC of course is popular with the nerds

⏹️ ▶️ John Slack is there. I was gonna say I was surprised not to see a slack mentioned. But yeah, those are

⏹️ ▶️ John Boy, those are there are a lot of choices. I don’t have any experience with whatsapp other than

⏹️ ▶️ John Reading about it. So I have no idea what that’s like, but I can say having used slack for

⏹️ ▶️ John since nearly its inception it is a a community messaging

⏹️ ▶️ John app that fits the way I work. I use Slack

⏹️ ▶️ John at my job, I have a million Slacks for all the other groups of friends that

⏹️ ▶️ John I hang out with online, and I think it is much nicer than IRC

⏹️ ▶️ John in pretty much every way, especially for people who don’t want to nerd out. And the

⏹️ ▶️ John app is getting better all the time, and I really like Slack, so So that’s my recommendation

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have to pick one of those things. Discord is similar. I have some experience with that, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I prefer Slack.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I found that over the last year or two, I have gone from participating in zero iMessage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey group chats to a handful. And I actually quite like that. There’s one in particular that I have running

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s myself and a couple of friends of mine who are big car nerds. And I’m not talking about the two of you on the show, a different couple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of friends of mine. And we often talk about cars, occasionally talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other nerdy stuff, but we typically are chatting at least once pretty much every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey single day in that chat. And I’ve actually come to quite like that. It’s a lot less fun

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it’s not everyone on iMessage. It’s a lot smoother on iMessage, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you have a situation where you’re willing to exchange contact information with everyone and everyone is on an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone, I do recommend in that, once you can get through those caveats that having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a group iMessage thread is quite nice. I do like Slack for groups. I do like Slack

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for group stuff, if possible, but I don’t think most people are going to be that interested in that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I still view it as a relatively nerdy thing. And I’ve never used like WhatsApp or I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used it so infrequently. It’s effectively never WhatsApp or Telegram or anything like that. Marco, how’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your Beach Community Facebook migration project?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I decided so let me well first let me answer the question the rest of the question I am

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically like you Casey. I use private. I message groups for some groups of friends. I use slack for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco others Slack is the one that’s typically larger groups of friends, but you know slack is I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Know zero of my like real-life in-person friends like like my neighbors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stuff I know zero of them who use slack and trying to get people to use slack who aren’t familiar with it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is is not so easy So for like real life groups of people that are not just like my nerd

⏹️ ▶️ Marco friends, that’s usually the iMessage groups, because we all have iPhones, thank goodness. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunately, Slack, you know, Slack just seems to not have any traction in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those groups, really. But for larger groups, like professional groups, and we have like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Relay one, I have an Overcast one, stuff like that. We have some friend ones. Slacks are great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the larger groups. As for the aforementioned Beach thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the question there was, I think two years ago, I had mentioned that there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was this Facebook group that was like all the people in the Beach town, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially including a lot of the year-round residents, and it was like the last reason I was ever on Facebook.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The last reason I was on Facebook was because I was in this, it was a private group, I was in it, and it was where I could keep up on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the goings-on of the Beach town when I wasn’t there all year. And after I left

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Facebook, I found a whole bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beach people on Instagram. And it turns out these are very different crowds.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Facebook group was the angry old people in town.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so while what I wanted from it was like reminding me of the beach when I couldn’t be there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what it mostly was was a handful of angry people complaining all the time about everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the people I found on Instagram were largely, significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco younger, and a much lower ratio of complaints. In fact,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty much zero, because Instagram is not really an easy place to post a bunch of complaints about your village.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a much nicer place, and it’s much more encouraging of you to post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice photos of things that you see that you like. And it’s just more, in general with Instagram, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much more positive. And so I once I found the instagram community,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not only did I not miss the facebook people at all, but it solved the need for me and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t I decided I didn’t need to run this community. I didn’t need to try to make one myself like this instagram is doing a perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine job for me better than I could do and I don’t have to do it and it’s already there and it was already succeeded. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the need kind of went away.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s already facebook too.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John nice little shortcut there. Yeah, are the old people complaining about Instagram people. Like is that what

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re complaining about in there?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, no, no, no. It’s just the typical. It’s actually maybe what you might see on next door. It’s like, you know, complaining

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about like, you know, there’s a pothole on the sidewalk and the village isn’t fixing it. But yet the village spent money

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on police officers for doing this thing. How, you know, how could you spend our tax money this way? It’s that kind of garbage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like that weird neighbor guy was carrying a suspiciously large bag. I think he’s stealing things from people’s homes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it was a combination of of like that kind of bad side of Nextdoor and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the town meetings from Parks and Rec.

#askatp: Game controllers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I finally ask HTTP of the week. Matthias Lutke writes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was 13 supports game controllers What’s the right one to buy Xbox or ps4? He doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey own one. I own a console or controller currently

⏹️ ▶️ John my suggestion for people in general Just use whichever one you have if you don’t have either one It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hard for me to say because I haven’t spent any appreciable time with the latest Xbox controllers

⏹️ ▶️ John I have spent literally hundreds of hours with the PlayStation 4 controller and I can say although

⏹️ ▶️ John they left some thumbstick is still in the wrong place Ergonomically, it’s so much better

⏹️ ▶️ John than the ps3 controller. It doesn’t bother my hands The Xbox may be ergonomically ergonomically

⏹️ ▶️ John slightly superior on the other hand I think I kind of like the triggers on the ps4 are better I think it’s a toss-up

⏹️ ▶️ John and kind of like using you know, selecting what mouse you’re gonna buy if your computer There is absolutely no substitute

⏹️ ▶️ John to just going somewhere and holding it in your hand and seeing how it feels. Is it too big for you? Is it too small? Do you like the buttons?

⏹️ ▶️ John Do you like the triggers? I think they’re both really good controllers You know, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John the ps4 better than its predecessors So I think you just go to a store where you

⏹️ ▶️ John can actually hold these and try it out now That’s that may be tricky because if you go to store and find these they’ll probably be in like a cardboard box

⏹️ ▶️ John or something So your best bet might be to try to find one of the few remaining retail big-box stores that has

⏹️ ▶️ John some incredibly grimy disgusting display where kids in theory can play with an Xbox or

⏹️ ▶️ John PlayStation 4 and the controller is like bolted to this thing. At least then you can hold both controllers in your hands

⏹️ ▶️ John despite the fact that they’re covered with the germs of thousands of children and are probably half broken. But

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s probably your best bet. Or a cleaner option, find a friend who has an Xbox and

⏹️ ▶️ John find a friend who has a PS4 and just try them out. But I don’t have any strong recommendations one way or the other.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yes, do definitely play Sayonara Wild Hearts with a controller if possible.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So how did you do that? In your case, did you buy it for the Switch or did you play it some other way?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it’s on Apple Arcade.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, right. No, I know that, but like how did you get a controller

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John hooked

⏹️ ▶️ John up? Oh, well, so you just, in iOS 13, you can just pair your PlayStation controller with

⏹️ ▶️ John your iPad, just like a Bluetooth device. You just put it in pairing mode and you pair it, and that’s it. Then you just

⏹️ ▶️ John launch the game and you use the controller. Even the UI work with the controller. Oh, that’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John cool. Yeah, and then to play it on, I really wanted to play it on TV, So I’m like great. I’ll update my TV to the

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple TV beta, which I did Which is probably ill-advised given Merlin’s

⏹️ ▶️ John experiences with the betas But I did it and then I went to the Apple Arcade icon and all I had was a video

⏹️ ▶️ John that says Apple Arcade is Coming soon. So anyway, Apple Arcade is not yet available despite the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John that I’m quote-unquote in the trial or In the preview or accidentally have it or whatever the hell situation

⏹️ ▶️ John is that it’s allowing me to see Apple Arcade games that situation does not exist on my Apple TV. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I can take my iPad and, you know, pair the PlayStation controller with it and then

⏹️ ▶️ John airplay from the iPad to my television and play the game that way. And you may think for like a rhythm

⏹️ ▶️ John arcade game that would be terrible. It’s actually surprisingly low lag. Like I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not going to say there’s no lag, there is lag, but it’s lower than you might think. And Sayonara

⏹️ ▶️ John Wild Hearts is tame enough that it is not going to punish you for that amount of lag.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, Linode, ExpressVPN, and ClearBank. and we will see you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re into Twitter, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they didn’t mean

⏹️ ▶️ John to Accidental, tech podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John so long.

Casey’s woes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if I’ll put a picture in the show notes but I’ve sent the two of you a picture of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a very large space on my desk that has a little itty bitty laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in it. And I’m speaking to you tonight from my MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I woke up this morning… Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was hoping somebody would do it. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. So I was watching Plex last night, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you recall all the media for Plex is on my Synology, but the Plex server

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is my iMac. And it was just acting weird. I was watching it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off of the Apple TV, but it was just acting weird. It could have been a network issue. It could have been the Synology choking for some reason,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which has never happened, but you never know. Whatever. For one reason or another, just acting funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t think much of it. So the next morning, this morning, I wake up, I try to use my iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s just not right. Like it’s kind of, it’s not quite locked up, but nothing’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going the way it’s supposed to. Like it’s not really responding to what I’m asking it to do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I think to myself, well, this is weird. And then I tried to shut it down and it wouldn’t really shut itself down. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I eventually, you know, forced it to shut down. I’m sorry, John, I have no empathy for the machine. I forced it to shut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey itself down. And then I tried to reboot. When I went to click on my username,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, once once I rebooted I beach balled Okay, I tried booting into safe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mode Eventually that I believe worked it. I tried so many things today. I should have taken notes. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sorry. That’s why I’m hamming and hawing I Tried to boot in safe mode. I think that might have worked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but then I tried rebooting again same beach ball dance I eventually went into the recovery partition

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and tried to do first aid on my hard drive thinking well, you know I know this isn’t HFS

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus anymore, but I don’t know what else to do. So let me try that. And it spun and spun

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and spun and spun and spun for a while. And then it eventually said something along the lines of I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t even unmount the internal SSD. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know what to tell you. This thing is probably cooked. I forget exactly what what it said on there, and I don’t have it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in front of me. But suffice to say, it was like, yeah, bad things are happening. I tried several

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other things, including I took my external SSD.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, here we go. Repairing file system, volume could not be unmounted. Restoring the original state found

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as mounted. Unable to unmount volume for repair. Operation failed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t sound good. Did you try, are you still using third party RAM in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there, or did you try pulling it out and putting in different RAM?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am, and I did not. And in retrospect, I should have. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t think of it until it was too late and you’ll understand why that why it’s too late in a minute. But

⏹️ ▶️ John you drop it on the stairs. Did you run a hardware test? I don’t know what the current state of that is but there is

⏹️ ▶️ John some key combo you can run right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You are jumping ahead but yes I did. I did run a hardware test it gave me a clean bill of health.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I eventually took at this external SSD that runs off of USB and I had Catalina

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it and I tried doing first aid from Catalina onto the you know Catalina running on the external

⏹️ ▶️ Casey try to first aid the internal it didn’t work. I eventually said, the hell with Catalina, because it was also an old version of Catalina.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought, okay, let me put High Sierra on the external and I’ll see if I can get this thing to just work. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that sort of worked, but then it would just hang all of a sudden, which brings me back to Marco’s point about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey RAM issues, but be that as it may, leave that aside just for a moment. It would just kind of hang for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no explicable reason after some indeterminate amount of time. And so then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I tried rebooting into recovery mode again and it wouldn’t even do that. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I make a Genius Bar reservation, which surprisingly I was able to get one within a couple of hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I go to the Genius Bar after, and I did my hardware diagnostics as well, like John had asked.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I go to the Genius Bar and I worked with a very nice gentleman who tried several things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey including Apple’s genuinely fancy network boot, and then hardware diagnosis and all that stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All of their hardware diagnosis said, this thing is good to go. Then he

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I concluded, all right, let’s just try to reboot into the recovery partition again and see if we can erase

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the existing hard drive, which I really didn’t want to do, but I don’t think I would be losing anything catastrophic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It would only be minor stuff. So anyway, let me reboot into the recovery partition

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and let’s just see if the two of us can erase this together. Maybe I had some bad juju at the house,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so maybe doing it at the Apple store will magically cause it to work. And he

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rebooted it to the recovery partition and the little progress bar that’s under the Apple logo got about halfway and it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey never got any further. So, he took my iMac from me with my permission and said, I’m going to run

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some diagnostics overnight. That’ll tell us if there’s RAM problems. That’ll tell us if there’s other problems. I mean, again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he did the quick and dirty diagnosis that only Apple can do, but he said they apparently have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some four to six hour diagnosis they can run that will give a much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better view of what’s broken. This is an iMac that is officially labeled a late 2015 iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I purchased it in January of 2016. It does have the one terabyte SSD.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t remember, it had the four gigahertz chip in it, I think. I don’t even remember. It was so darn long ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it does have 32 gigs of aftermarket OWC RAM. Now, for those of you who have not listened to the show for a long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time, this is my second batch of aftermarket OWC RAM because for the longest time I had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a batch, well, I should say like six months or something like that. I had a batch of OWC RAM in there that as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I later found out was part of like a bad batch of RAM. And so I told OWC about this well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey outside of warranty and they were like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s totally our fault. You know, we got a bad batch from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey such and such crucial or whoever it was. And they sent me a new batch of RAM, new 32

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gig batch of RAM for free, if you will. I mean, of course paid for the original batch. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and ever since then, for like, you know, two years plus, it had been rock solid. But in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey summary, my guess, based on not a lot of facts, is that the SSD is borked.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But the fact that it was being a little bit wonky, even when I was running off an external,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes me wonder if there’s something deeper. Now, the interesting turn of events here, and then I’ll stop my monologue,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that to replace the terabyte SSD would run me about a thousand dollars at Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to replace the entire logic board at Apple is like six or seven hundred bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But one way or another, as it turns out, I am now hoping that it’s a logic board problem, if any problem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at all, because that will be almost half the price of replacing the SSD. So tomorrow,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in theory, I will get a call from Apple and they will tell me what is or is not broken with this thing. But for tonight,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am recording on my adorable little MacBook, this poor thing that I thought I was going to replace soon, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now it sounds like I’m buying buying myself a new iMac instead. And so this little guy is just gonna have to chug along a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey longer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is what, I mean, I have many thoughts on this, but like, just like as a little point here,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the value of having a spare Mac around, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like this should inform future hardware purchases for you when you’re making decisions about what kind of laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can get away with. I always like to make sure that whatever laptop I have,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in addition to my desktop, can take over as my main computer in a pinch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And can serve as my main computer for at least a week, if it needs to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And as fun as it is to get the tiniest laptop that you can,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because when you’re carrying it, you’re like, wow, this is great, I love how tiny it is, and I don’t need the power of anything bigger,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a desktop. It is really nice when you don’t have a desktop anymore, all of a sudden, unplanned.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that you can you can have like you know a pinch hitter am I using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that term correctly yeah I believe that’s right but yeah that sucks man I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what do you want to do here if if your iMac is toast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and which it might even take you a week or two to figure out exactly what the problem is like because like what if they do one repair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then it ends up that wasn’t it like it like suppose the diagnostics say oh it’s a logic board and then they replace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and then it’s still flaky and then they say oh I actually it was the SSD or whatever like What if there’s something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that where there’s like a multi-step repair necessary before you can figure it out? Like I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s your plan here?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, yeah, so that’s the thing so So up until today

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my thought was I think I would like a different laptop I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Think what I would like to do is get something beefier I don’t really want a bigger laptop if I can get away with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, but I do want a more powerful laptop So up until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco today I have bad news for you You have a 12 inch, everything that’s more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco powerful is bigger than it by a good deal actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well right, and that’s the thing. Now the new 13s, not even the Air, but the 13 inch Pro is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not that much bigger. I mean it is absolutely bigger for sure, and noticeably so, and particularly heavier,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but in the grand scheme of things it’s actually not that much bigger. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my thought process was whenever the 13s come to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey refreshed, you know, such that they don’t have the butterfly keyboard and so on and so forth, I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably get one of those. Not a, you know, completely baller version, but a not crummy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey version.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s so funny, like the timing of this, such that like what you should really do, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I suggested to you earlier, like what the solution you should really take right now is, it looks like your desktop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is gonna be out of commission for a little while, and even if you want to order a new one, you’re gonna want to customize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s gonna take a couple of weeks to arrive maybe, and I wouldn’t wanna go a couple of weeks on just a 12-inch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so my suggestion was, well, really, this would be the perfect time to upgrade the laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to whatever, you know, because you’ve been floating the idea of upgrading the laptop for a while, and it’s just so funny, like I can’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco imagine a worse time to buy an Apple laptop than September 2019,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right before they’re likely to replace the butterfly keyboard on at least one of the laptops.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You could be the very last person buy the butterfly key.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t, I don’t think buying a laptop now is a reasonable course of action. I know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you were being somewhat silly when you were recommending it, but I think if, if the laptops

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today were good, and that’s a poor way of phrasing it, but hopefully you take my point. If, if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the laptops today were good, then yeah, I’d probably just buy a really nice laptop and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see if I even need a desktop. Like I do want, I like having an iMac. I do want to continue to have an iMac,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but maybe I would just, you know, go with just a 13 or 15 inch MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a while and bide my time or something like that and figure out what I wanted to do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But my current thinking is, going on the assumption that this iMac is cooked in some way,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shape or form, which I think it is, I think what I wanna do is get a new iMac. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then it becomes a discussion of, well, do you wanna get a new iMac iMac or do I wanna get an iMac Pro?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so the iMac Pro is a couple years old now, but if I wanted to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an iMac with at least a terabyte of storage, which I would, preferably two at this point, if I wanted to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get an iMac with at least 32 gigs of RAM, which I think I do,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if I wanted to get one that has a reasonably nice processor, like I didn’t look at the numbers, but at that point I’m hovering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at what? I mean, I know you pretty much keep the Apple product catalog in your brain, Marco, so that’s something like $3,000, $3,500

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get it approximately to that point, is that fair to say?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, to get an iMac to roughly match the specs of the base model iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is $3,600, I believe. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at that point, like, should I just spend another $1,500? Since

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not one to buy computers often, and as much as I love to poke fun at, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco for buying computers as often as he changes underwear, that’s not me. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think it makes more sense to me or for me to spend a little bit extra to get something a little bit nicer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I probably wouldn’t have replaced that iMac for at least a year, if not more, were it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not for it having pooped itself. So at that point, I feel like, okay, I might as well just go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iMac Pro. If I go iMac Pro, well, first of all, I’m not gonna have it for a couple of weeks,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is a bummer, especially since I was just putting the finishing touches on the vignette updates for iOS 13.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But leaving that aside, it’s just a bummer not to have your main computer for two weeks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, there is, you know, the other option is like, you know, when we’re buying computers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it’s not like a, something is on a fire situation, like right now, like when you have time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we won’t compromise on what we want. We customize all the specs, we get exactly what we want to order. Oh, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want this amount of RAM, but not that amount of RAM. We don’t want the GPU update, because we don’t want to pay for it, but we do want this other update. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we customize everything to get exactly what we want, and we’re willing to wait, you know, a week and a half or two weeks, whatever it is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for it to be custom built and shipped over here. But a lot of times people can’t do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A lot of times, something critical broke and you need a replacement today. And when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s your option, you can get replacements today. They just might not be the configurations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want. You can go to the Apple store and you can have an iMac Pro today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I almost did. Right. Usually, the only choices you have though are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either the base configurations, And this, by the way, this is why I am so hard on Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever they make a base configuration of a computer that is a really crappy computer in some way. Like something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s just like really punitive, like the spinning hard drive iMac, things like that. I really object

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the base models being crappy in fundamental ways because so many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people buy the base models. Like there’s a reason they do it. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a massive percentage of buyers who just buy the base model of the computers. So, anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your options at retail are mostly just the base models. And then sometimes, they’ll have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever configurations on are the step up that are pre-configured, they’ll have those,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and usually they’ll have one or two tweaked high-end configurations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in stock for the high-end computers, like the 15-inch MacBook Pro, the iMac Pro, et cetera. They’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually stock a couple of those. You’ll have to ask, some people, you’ll have to ask the business people what they have there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they will almost always have some kind of high-end configuration customized in stock. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it won’t necessarily be what you wanted. So you will probably end up paying more than you wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get something like the faster GPU that maybe you wouldn’t have gotten, but that’s just what they had for you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in order to get the SSD you wanted, or something like that. And I’ve done that on a couple of occasions with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco various things, and it’s been fine. It’s not a huge deal, but you do end up paying a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more. But the advantage is just to have something faster. It’s like, you consider it like, I’m paying an extra $150 or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a faster GPU and also to have an iMac Pro for the next two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weeks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and I’ve kicked that idea around and there was actually a small window of time where I thought I was gonna drive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Fairfax, which is a couple hours north of me, because I forget what Jim Metzendorf had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recommended in the relay slack, but he had recommended- Micro Center. Thank you. He had recommended Micro Center, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has the base model iMac for 500 bucks off. But what I keep coming down to is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do not have any desire to spend $5,000 on a computer, period. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey particularly do not have any desire to spend $5,000 on a computer when I’m already giving Apple something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like $3,000 this month, not even this year, this month. Now, to be fair, 100% my own creation. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chose to buy two new iPhone Pro, 11 Pros, whatever they’re called. I chose to buy two new Apple Watches.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is entirely my fault, but this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey timing in many ways could not be worse. And so now I’m already looking at $3,000 of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple expenditures in the month of September and, oh yeah, why not? Let’s just throw another five on top. Can’t hurt.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. But the thing of it is is if I’m going to spend $5,000, like I really don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to, I really don’t want to, but I’m lucky and blessed enough that I can without, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being financially ruined. And so if I’m going to do it, then I might as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well do it properly. So I’m going to spend nine. No, I’m just kidding. So what I think I’m going to do is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I, I think I’m going to force myself to get at least a two terabyte SSD. I think I am still going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to go iMac Pro because this is a computer that I leave on all the time, which we can get into an argument as to whether

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or not that’s a good idea another time. But the fact of the matter is I leave the computer on all the time. The iMac Pro is much better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cooling. It has the ECC RAM. It has a lot of other things that make it really nice. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I’m already in $3,500, like I might as well go to five grand, which again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey such a sign of how lucky I am. I mean that genuinely. I’m not trying to be funny. I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey extremely lucky that I can just shrug at $1,500 extra dollars, much less $5,000, which I’m not shrugging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at. But you know what I mean? I don’t want to lose sight of the fact that I am extremely lucky. It’s okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re a working professional. This is required for your job. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine. I know. I’m also trying to justify it to myself, to be honest. But nevertheless…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, you are a working professional. This is required for your job. Yeah. This is critical equipment for you to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do your job.

⏹️ ▶️ John job. Well, I don’t know if this computer is required for your job, but you should be more upset about buying a 2017 computer

⏹️ ▶️ John for $5,000. So here’s the thing. I mean, yeah, I mean, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, like some of the retailers like micro center B

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a H best buy, like you can probably get a few hundred dollars off just because it is not new, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, not, not a new model. But that being said, like, I gotta say like even today,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the, the late 2017, so the two year old iMac pro is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an incredibly good computer. I have similar feelings about my car as I do about my computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like, I’m so happy with it that if it was like stolen tomorrow, if I had to replace it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instantly today, like with what’s available today, I would get the exact same thing. The same thing’s true about my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car and my iMac Pro. I’m so happy with it, I would literally get the exact same thing to replace it if I had to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And even in a world where, suppose it’s two or three months from now and the Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is in regular availability, I think I would still replace my iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the exact same thing if that’s what was available. Because that’s how happy I am with this computer. It’s, yes it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two years old. So yes, you shouldn’t be paying full price for it if you can at all avoid it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my goodness is it a fantastic computer. And it, like, you know, for you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this may vary for you, but for me, it still solves my needs better than anything else in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lineup could, including the upcoming Mac Pro. And so it is just a fantastic computer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is not a great value, but not a terrible value for what it is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there is nothing in the lineup that is better for most people than this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So my question is, which processor do I get? Because a friend of mine was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey telling me the 10-core is the sweet spot, and before you interrupt me, let me just kind of put everything on the table. I don’t feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I need anything more than the 8-core, but a friend was saying the 10-core is the sweet spot, I should get that. How

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much RAM do I get? I don’t know why I would need more than 32 gigs the kind of thing I do, but it’s not ruinous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get 64. So, should I consider it? And what size SSD?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because I think myself and I think the two of you based on our Slack conversations agree

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that two terabyte is probably the minimum for a computer I plan to keep for several years, God willing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But there actually is right now a refurb

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iMac Pro on Apple’s site. I don’t have it in front of me, but it was something like $5,200 or something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. It was $5,249.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So $250 above the regular retail starting price. Right, but it had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 4TB SSD,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which in and of itself is normally a $1,200 option.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And not only that, but I could have it like the end of the week, as opposed to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I do a CTO or whatever they call it, a BTO, bill to order, whatever it’s called. If I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do that, then it won’t be available until the very end of the month. So, leaving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aside whether I go refurb or whatever, what would the two of you recommend in terms

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of how many cores, how much RAM, and how much SSD?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say obsess over this less than you are, buy that refurb and be done with it. For lots of reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, you need this now, you need this quickly. That will come quickly. The iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is one of the only things Apple sells where the base model is fantastic. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is the base model plus a four terabyte SSD. I would say, you know, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the base RAM is already 32. If you had the luxury to customize things and wait a long time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe consider going 64 because of, you know, you do heavy work and stuff like that. But like, you probably don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need it. You’ve had 32 all this time and it’s been fine, right? So you probably don’t need 64. The base eight core CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is great. The 10 core is indeed the sweet spot for developer workloads, but it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that much better than the eight core. It’s not that big of a deal to go from eight to 10.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you, again, if you were customizing, Sure, go for the 10, but you need something quickly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And because it’s old, you have some of these really cool and amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deals available on certain configurations that people happen to have in stock. I would get that. I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just get that refurb and move on with this and be done with it.

⏹️ ▶️ John John, any thoughts? As hopefully evidenced by the people who are listening to this podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John right now, you are not in desperate need of anything. I think you should use your MacBook until November and revisit this question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey November? Why November?

⏹️ ▶️ John because that gives enough time for any potential iMac update and it gives enough time

⏹️ ▶️ John for the Mac Pro configurator to hopefully exist.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not getting a Mac Pro, that is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a program. Actually, there is one other advantage to this plan. For using your 12

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch MacBook for all that time, anything you get after it will feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amazingly fast. Ha ha ha

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ha ha ha ha. Oh, that’s funny. I mean, it might be worth it for that feeling alone, that first time you boot up the new computer and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything’s like zipping into place and it just blows you away after coming from a 12-inch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just use it for podcast recording. Does it feel slow now? You’re staring at a screen talking to a microphone. It doesn’t, you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t, that’s touch the computer. Just talk, it works fine. See, that’ll hold you over for a month or two.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but the problem is then I have Vignette floating around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John without an iOS 13 update.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, you can do dev work on that a little bit. That’s where it’ll be slow, but during podcasting, it won’t be a

⏹️ ▶️ John big deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have to also tell you that Overcast won’t have an iOS 13 update for probably that entire time either.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, yes, but Overcast has dark mode already. I’m not trying to be funny, that to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me is a big deal. I don’t think I’m going to be on day one since I need to submit today in order to get there by day one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I do want to be there week one or two. If I wait until November, even though John,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as much as I want to yell at you and tell you that it’s impossible to wait that long, you do make a pretty good point. I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can wait that long, but you do make a good point. I think, if anything, I’m going to try

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get the vignette update out off of this MacBook. To truth be told, I’ve probably done a third of vignettes development on the MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not my favorite thing to do, but I can I can do it, you know. And so I don’t I’m not sure what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m going to do. It’s so the moral of the story is as much as I’m willing to spend money on 3264 810. And if I want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it now, get the refurb. Otherwise, then I can, you know, fiddle with these sliders a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is that basically what I’m hearing? Yeah, that refurb is a good deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would as your attorney, I would advise you to take it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t believe you gave up on your old computer so easily, Like your computer throws one shoe and you’re like, take it out and shoot

⏹️ ▶️ John it. It just has nothing ever gone wrong with any. I mean, you’ve nursed that BMW

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for years and

⏹️ ▶️ John it was constantly exploding. And your Mac has one hiccup and you’re like, kill it, kill it with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fire. You’re not wrong. I mean, truth be told, if Apple can magically sprinkle pixie dust

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it and make it

⏹️ ▶️ John work, they can fix your computer. I assure you, it’s just a question of how much it’s going to cost.

⏹️ ▶️ John It will cost less than five grand. I promise. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey agree. But it’s that And the best analogy I can think of is a car analogy. Like, at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what point is it dumb to continue to throw money? Well, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John given your BMW experience, that point is far off in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the distance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m trying to learn from my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mistakes. This is a knowable thing. Like, just look up on eBay completed item sales

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for that model iMac. What are they selling for used when they’re working? And then you can see,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, what’s it gonna cost you to fix it. And, you know, figure out yourself. whether like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suppose it’ll cost you 600 bucks to fix it, and they sell used for like $2,000, like, well, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably worth it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I got stuff to think about. But if I were a betting man, I think what I’ll probably, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m probably going to do is buy some iMac Pro, like purchase

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it tomorrow and receive it somewhere between the end of the week and the end of the month. And then inevitably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that means in a month or two, there will be a brand new, much fancier iMac Pro, and I’m going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to jump off a bridge.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But, I mean, honestly, like we’ve, you know, we’ve seen zero rumblings to that effect. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, cause, and we learned, I forget when we learned this, but we learned that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco family of Xeons that’s going into the Mac Pro is not the same family

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would be likely a good fit for the iMac Pro. And so, you know, usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Pro line, when it’s healthy and being updated, Every time there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new Xeon of the class that goes into that computer, they make a new one. But, and it’s just what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens, those Xeons tend to only come out about every two years, or 18 months, something like that. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course now Intel’s all over the place now, it’s hard to ever know. But there, as far as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know, there still isn’t a Xeon update that would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco appropriate for the iMac Pro without like major, you know, internal thermal upgrades and things like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think there was supposed to be one sometime this winter. Something like that. Like it’s not,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple hasn’t skipped one yet. But it’s, and there isn’t one out yet, but there is probably going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be one sometime. But yeah, the question really is like, are you willing to like wait around,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are you able to wait around forever for an update that, you know, the existing iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is pretty damn fast. You’d be waiting around forever for one that might be what? Like 15% faster?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it’s not gonna be a huge difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Truth be told, that iMac that is currently sitting at the Apple store, it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was not often that I longed for speed on it. It happened for sure, but it was not often.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And certainly instantaneous builds would be better than two or three second builds, because Vignette is not a tremendous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey code base. But that being said, the only time I really felt processor problems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was when I was doing transcoding with FFmpeg, which as much as I joke, I don’t do it that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey often. and it’s never, almost never something that I need to put a rush job on, if you will.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t feel like this two or three year old, whatever, three year old iMac was really that processor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the processor wasn’t that much of a problem for me. So I can only imagine this three year newer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pro, iMac pro would be just unspeakably fast from my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perspective, especially coming off of this damn MacBook, which I love, but is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slow. I mean, honestly, I think one thing you should strongly consider

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, what if you just got a laptop that was good and used it in both places?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because like, especially like if you look at the new, if you look at the 15 inch line, yes, I know it’s a lot bigger. Shut up, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deal with it. You’re a grown man, you can lift a laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey But my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco commute is so hard, Marco. Yeah, right. Because you take your stupid little 12 inch out all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the time and work on it. You like to work like in libraries and stuff like that. Like you go out and work out in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco world on a pretty regular basis, and you travel and everything. So like, if you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco performance wise, you would be totally fine with any of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco modern 15 inches, like even the six core models, like you know, they go up to eight now, but even the six core would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be totally fine for most of what you’re doing the vast majority of the time. If you’re gonna have a laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway, like as much as I’m a huge fan of desktops, and as much as John is gonna rape me over the coals in a second for even suggesting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, I think really for your needs, a good 15-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might be the way to go, and you could, I know this is crazy, you could buy one now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to tide you over, and then return it in 15 days and see what the situation is then. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know, it probably won’t be any different, but I don’t know, it could buy you some time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But that’s the thing, I think, like I was saying earlier, if the Apple laptop line was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quote-unquote good, like if this was a good time to buy an Apple laptop, I would very strongly consider

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. I would have a couple problems with it. Number one, first and foremost, I have become very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accustomed to the 5K lifestyle. And so then I would not only be buying a brand new laptop,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I would be buying one of the Apple or the LG, whatever whatever displays. And that’s like 1500

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bucks on top of the cost of the laptop, which is still probably cheaper than the iMac Pro, but still,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I see now I’m convincing myself to do it, but it’s such a terrible idea. I don’t wanna buy a laptop right

⏹️ ▶️ John now. You run a Plex server off of that thing. You need a desktop. You need a big screen, you don’t want to buy a laptop with this

⏹️ ▶️ John credit keyboard, come on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not an option. But like, but if you can hold out until the 16-inch comes out, that might change things. Like that might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change the calculus.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well then we can reevaluate. I don’t think I want to wait that long now. But of course you don’t. You’re very impatient.

⏹️ ▶️ John No. I told you, your computer has one hiccup and you’re like, spend, spend,

⏹️ ▶️ John spend.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I don’t want to spend, but I don’t want to. The problem is I really don’t want to spend the money and I don’t want to do it right now. Seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like you want to. But I don’t particularly want to wait a month

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and a half to make the decision. Month and a half. Yeah, that seems like a long time to wait. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s pull on the stride a minute. Like, when do you think if the 16 inch is coming out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in this calendar year, which is not a given, but if it is, when is that event? Is it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey effectively Halloween? Like the one that you and I were able to go to, Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m guessing you can’t get one before November.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you might be able to order one in October. Maybe, possibly. I don’t know. That rumor, We’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John talked about this before. I can’t keep track of where that is. I think it keeps pushing off into 2020, but don’t tell Casey that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think it’s still for this year. And look, we know, or we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know, but it sure seems like there sure is a lot on Apple’s likely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco calendar that is still left for this year. Now that we’ve seen the September event,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there sure was a lot that wasn’t in it that we expect to be coming out any minute now. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m guessing we haven’t heard the last of Apple this year, and it would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty awesome to have that. All the rumors are pointing to the 16-inch coming out September

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or October, and I think that was still the latest information. So I would say,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunately, John is frustratingly correct on one aspect of this, which is if you really want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have all the options available for consideration, And that could be another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco month, or it could be another month and a half,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or it could not happen at all, who knows? They could push all that stuff till the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spring or next summer. We have no idea until it actually happens. But I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultimately, if you’re going to have a desktop at all, you can just get the iMac Pro right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now. Because I don’t think they’re gonna update it soon. Even if they did update

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, it probably wouldn’t be that big of an update. and the current one can be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had with good deals and is excellent. And I can’t imagine anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the Mac Pro configurator is going to change your mind because you’d have a similar display issue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. Oh God, no, no, no. Mac Pro is not even on the table.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So therefore I revert back to my earlier suggestion of just get the stupid refurb that has the four terabyte

⏹️ ▶️ Marco SSD for almost no money. That’s it, done. And you can have it at the end of this week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s true. Let me throw a curveball at you though and I promise we’ll move on soon, I really do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Should I get a Mac Mini and if so, well, can the Mac Mini, hold it, just hear me out, just hear me out, just hear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me out. Can the Mac Mini power the LG whatever whatever ultra fine at 5K?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes it can. That’s how I tested the review on it. Yep, it can power it just fine. I will say the GPU sucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do I care though? Okay, a Mac Mini, what are you thinking? So what if I get a Mac Mini and the LG ultra fine?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because I’m looking at a Mac Mini and built real nice. So a Mac Mini with a three gigahertz processor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 32 gigs RAM, I haven’t even looked at refurbs, mind you. This is straight, you know, brand new. Two gig SSD

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the fancy 10 gigabit ethernet is $2,600. And what is the LG UltraFine? Like the big one. That 1,000 or 1,200, I think?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It’s like 1,200. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey puts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me at $4,000.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then get the iMac Pro. It’s a better computer. Yeah, don’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John think about buying a $2,600 Mac mini with an LG display. That’s madness. If you already

⏹️ ▶️ John have a display, fine. but it’s just a hodgepodge

⏹️ ▶️ John with a not good monitor and with weird compromises, just, ugh, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. But then I would have quote unquote saved $1,000. No, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna save money, you keep using what you’re using right now until November and reevaluate.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s how you save money. You don’t save money by getting a weird Frankenstein Mac mini configuration and buying a third party

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor. It’s gross.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well here, let me put a final appeal to the listeners out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco world. No, this is crap. There’s no appeal necessary. Ignore John because this is your job, this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your work, you would love it anyway. It’s your hobby and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it’s your job.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You need this for your work. You do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You need good equipment,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco damn it. You need

⏹️ ▶️ John a $5,000 iMac Pro to record audio at 64 kilobits a second. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just, I cannot bear to see a good friend use a 12-inch MacBook as his only computer for like two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco months. That’s cruel and unusual punishment. And well, he kind of deserves

⏹️ ▶️ John it after.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Well, maybe a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit. Oh, come on. All right, so let me put this appeal out to the world. If you happen to work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at a fruit company and you happen to know that maybe something’s happening in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a month or two with regard to 16-inch laptops, you know, if you just wanted to send a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something my way, I promise I won’t tell

⏹️ ▶️ John anyone. You think asking about it now is gonna change things? What would that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change? Suppose you get the answer back that there’s definitely one coming in a month.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Are you gonna buy it?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would really think about it, yeah. I would really, really, that sounds so wishy-washy because it is. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would make me wonder, since as you said earlier, I do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey take my laptop out and do work on it at least a couple of times a week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why wouldn’t I just get a 16-inch, if it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what we expect it to be, a 16-inch powerhouse, maybe pair it with a monitor, maybe not.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But presumably, I’m getting everything I want in this fantasy world,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s about the same money as the iMac Pro, but I’m getting not literally, of course, two computers,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I’m sort of kind of getting two computers for the price of one in the sense that I have one amazing computer that can go anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with me. I mean, the one thing you wouldn’t have is a backup computer when that one breaks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and you know, you laugh, but that’s very true. I mean, I would keep the adorable, but your point is still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair. And the other thing is I haven’t solved my plex problems. Please don’t keep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the adorable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, we’ll see what happens. But I also haven’t solved my plex problems. And this is a silly thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me to be worked up about, But honest to goodness, Plex is an important part of my entire family’s life. Like, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, the kids will watch a couple of shows each afternoon and they do that off of Plex. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there are other mechanisms that I can do to make Plex servers. You know, like Jelly’s been talking to my ear over

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last couple of days, because apparently he just put together some sort of Raspberry Pi, something or other. So presumably I could make this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey work anyway. But I don’t know. I feel like money, no object. Let’s just talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a second. Money, no object.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey already have the iMac Pro and then I would still debate whether or not to get a new laptop when the time comes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And maybe that’s what I should do is not necessarily guarantee to myself I’ll be getting a laptop, but do the right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing for 80% of my computer use. And that brings me back to what you said, Marco, the refurbed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iMac Pro and just call it a day.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you can have it at the end of the week. This could be done.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I don’t know.