Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

330: A Rotation You Can't Complete

Catalina under the hood, John’s new “app”, and why Casey is getting a Mac Pro.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Flashlight (transcription + alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. root:wheel 🖼️
  2. Dropbox drama
  3. Embracing Swift
  4. John’s Safari-reload “app” 🖼️
  5. Monodraw & asciiflow 🖼️
  6. The lasso stump
  7. Sponsor: Linode (code atp2019)
  8. WWDC dust settling
  9. APFS in Catalina
  10. User-space drivers
  11. Sponsor: Away (code atp20)
  12. Mac Pro
  13. Pro Display XDR
  14. Sponsor: Eero (code ATP)
  15. Casey’s buying one
  16. #askatp: Macro lenses
  17. #askatp: Old-tech leakage
  18. #askatp: Tesla Autopilot
  19. Ending theme
  20. Birthday math


Chapter root:wheel image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i got to say i’m a little bit scared of scape right now right now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more than usual because for the last i don’t know three four weeks scip

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has popped up the box about every few hours when it’s open and saying scale to install a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco helper tool and your password to allow this and normally my rule with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scip is it’s going to do whatever it wants anyway so just let it do it right just embraces

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah cause i depend on skype i need the work so normally i just let it do what it needs to do so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first couple of times i actually entered my password to the system dialogue actually enter my password and let it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco install whatever helper tool things it needs the problem is that that box just kept coming up and so eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i got tired of entering my password and just started hitting cancel on it and it’s coming up with the same frequency

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as when i was entering the password and nothing seems to be different or broken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nothing seems to be happening and everything seems to be working fine but i feel like something’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to explode at any moment

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah this is this is ominous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or skip has given me a virus and you know it’s like there’s no good outcome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’ve given it to me is that does that work that way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah by virtue the skype well now i have your virus thanks a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John so microsoft’s office prompts me to turn on auto updates and the choices and the notification

⏹️ ▶️ John are turned on and not now and i get these on and i get these on other people’s accounts on

⏹️ ▶️ John the shared five gmac and no matter what you hit it doesn’t matter you’ll be seeing that notification

⏹️ ▶️ John again in a day or two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wonder because like your only option is like i want to do it later

⏹️ ▶️ John but you can say turn on i do want auto updates on i hit turn on it doesn’t matter what you hit it’s still going to come

⏹️ ▶️ John back later and it’s going to say you want you know you just it doesn’t matter it seems to do nothing on on the a

⏹️ ▶️ John shared computer i always think it’s because like weird ownership things because the person who installed the app is not the person who’s

⏹️ ▶️ John getting prompted and what does it mean for every individual user to have auto updates on and centos users even auto update

⏹️ ▶️ John an ap that was installed by another user but you’re on your own mac and i’m assuming you installed skype yourself so i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know if that’s the problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know i didn’t think a multi user tiff has a profile on this mac with scape for when we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the beach when she’s doing her podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ John but did she install skype or maybe did she update it last time she ran it just to see on the skip out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i cannot believe we’re actually doing this on the air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i thought it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s root wheel that seems wrong cool very very wrong it should

⏹️ ▶️ John be marco staff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all i’ve never seen a staff group on macos what all you can do

⏹️ ▶️ John marco admin it doesn’t matter whatever let

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me list my home director oh no there it is the other staff all right so i guess staff is the default

⏹️ ▶️ Casey group oh yet that is true what is wheel i thought you were crazy what the hell is real as the

⏹️ ▶️ John group for don’t worry about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m actually kind of curious if i’ve seen that like on servers and if i have no idea what where where does that come from why

⏹️ ▶️ John is it cold wheel that’s a bit of eunuch history i don’t actually know but it is cold wheel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wheel now from slaying big wheel for a powerful person a person is an active wheel bit the traditional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey name of security groups zero and b s d to which the major system internal users like group belong is wheel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is a terrible origin story i was hoping it was something more interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey origins the term wheel was first applied to computers or privilege levels after the introduction of the of the ten x

⏹️ ▶️ Casey operating system pronounced ten ten i can’t even tell if you’re messing with me right now in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the early

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sixties in the sixties and early seventies the term was derived from the slang phrase big wheel referring to a person with great power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey influence stack exchange was right

⏹️ ▶️ John the those same websites say that slash u s or sense for like unix system resources

⏹️ ▶️ John or some stuff and it does not it’s short for user yeah this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is this wheel thing this is a terrible story i was hoping maybe it was like w heel and there was something more more interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about it or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John something who knows right that’s too

⏹️ ▶️ John what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just got the box again what should i do i’m going to hit cancel i’m doing it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very exciting

Dropbox drama

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why do we switch into the facetime audio for this thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never as soon as you switch to high cloud drive and the new shared folder support instead of dropbox

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i haven’t knowingly seen this new further ruined dropbox yet but i’m already dreading

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it it’s dropbox is really making people mad like i mean drop bucks has always been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like an incredibly hellish client app that happened to achieve good functionality so we tolerated it but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the client dropbox app has always been a total piece of garbage like from a technical level and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always been amazingly wasteful of system resources and it seems like not only do they just raise their prices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which everyone’s mad about but also now they have this additional problem of the apes now like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bundling all of cerium and tagging like half a gig extra

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have i told you about work chat work chat is excellent you don’t have a job anymore what are you talking about you don’t need this stuff no

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m talking about evernote because evernote has gone down this road as well and it’s just it’s just not good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco member i don’t know maybe a year ago i tried to drop dropbox and like looked like what that would take and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and one of the things was like one of the reasons i i i guess picked it back up is that it you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know there was no shared folder support on icloud drive and so many people like you guys who i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deal with are you know the way we deal with each other and pass files around is through dropbox

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shared folders so it seemed almost impossible to totally get off drop bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until they had until i drive had shared folders now it will i guess i’m i’m not running

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the beta yet but like once everyone’s on on the new versions like this fall we will have shared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco folders they might even work and so if they act actually work acceptably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think a lot of us could drop dropbox finally but i don’t know like it’s there’s there’s so much network locking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i have a feeling it’s going to be really hard for some people to totally get rid of it

⏹️ ▶️ John you know there’s some vaguely dropbox related stuff in the topic list today

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m a little

⏹️ ▶️ John scared it’s a tiny item lots lots of small items today

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah

Embracing Swift

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speaking of small items i’m finally actually diving in more and swift

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah and

⏹️ ▶️ John how’s that a small item yeah right it’s a big big item

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i keep running into things that remind me just how much of a dick swift is it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a but i think what i’ve come around to is that you know some some people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are dicks and i don’t want to associate with them i’m also friends with a lot of people who are dicks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the ones that are my friends i have chosen to be like you know what i recognize you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a dick but i like you for other reasons and you’re my friend and so i will tolerate your dishes because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re my friend you know i’m on the call with you right that’s the kind of relationship that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of relationship that i think i need to have with swift now like swift is dick but i have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be its friend for lots of other reasons and there are parts of it i like you know even your ducky friends can be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice sometimes and so there are parts of it i like and and so i just have to get over that and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just embrace it for its its full decide and and just be a hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Marco per cent ok with you know what swift is my friend now and yes it’s a lot of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time but it’s still my friend and so i have to like stand up for it i have to support it and i have to use it

John’s Safari-reload “app”

Chapter John's Safari-reload "app" image.

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s spending all his time complaining about swift and while you were doing that i wrote a mcap and swift

⏹️ ▶️ John so i don’t know what’s taking you so long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey swift didn’t bother me at all what is your

⏹️ ▶️ John cup you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you

⏹️ ▶️ John talk about the extension you have to safari extensions have to be an apse now so i have to make an ap

⏹️ ▶️ John to wrap around the one line of code that constitutes my my reload extension page dot reload

⏹️ ▶️ John open close parens that is the code of my application i just read it on the air its open source now

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole rest of it is how do you make a notarized mac application starting

⏹️ ▶️ John from zero and that is a surprising amount of work if you’ve never done it before

⏹️ ▶️ John which i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey haven’t so you enlisted marco to fix all your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John problems

⏹️ ▶️ John no i just read webpages like it’s it’s not difficult but exco sure doesn’t help you was saying

⏹️ ▶️ John in i slack that i think it needs more wizards it needs more like you’re going to make a nap

⏹️ ▶️ John here are the nine thousand things you’re going to need don’t make me go like keychain access and make a

⏹️ ▶️ John certificate signing request you can do all that you’re the computer just do it all like you know what

⏹️ ▶️ John i need like just do all the things and i’m going to the website i’m going to keychain access i’m going

⏹️ ▶️ John to ex code and in every step of the way there’s like you know one wrong turn like it could

⏹️ ▶️ John lead you into a dead end it’s not going to get you any more one of the web instructions was like this thing is going to pop up this

⏹️ ▶️ John dog puck’s gonna pop pop up hit cancel like the dialogue is offering do to do something that sounds useful

⏹️ ▶️ John and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so

⏹️ ▶️ John you just say okay but now you have to hit cancel if you hit okay that just anyway yeah so

⏹️ ▶️ John you build you build this mack out that does nothing and inside that you bury this other little extension that

⏹️ ▶️ John does one simple thing yeah the most difficult part was getting us code working in exciting

⏹️ ▶️ John working and the second most difficult part was making pdf graphic because my two exit map graphic from the

⏹️ ▶️ John old reload button is no longer acceptable the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey struggle you know i can’t i just it’s hard for me to wrap my head around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyone but particularly you john being this set in your ways that you can’t just hit command or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like is it that hard i can’t command or all the time then why do you need a firing

⏹️ ▶️ John button every once in a while i hit the reload button with my mouse because i sometimes use the mouse have you ever

⏹️ ▶️ John used the mouse when you use a computer nope never not not once and sometimes my hand is on the mouse and my pointer

⏹️ ▶️ John is near that section of the screen or i’m doing something else and i hit the reload button sometimes that commander

⏹️ ▶️ John i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t think i ever even click anywhere near the address bar your commander person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for life yeah oh yeah wait but hold on a second why do you not hit the button in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the what you call them the r l field

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s in the wrong place and my cursor is never over there oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey god so you have two buttons just to hit we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John i can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John i can’t get rid of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the reload button i mean my god it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John also because like i’ve always had back forward reload chrome has back forward reload every version

⏹️ ▶️ John of safari until they shoved it into theatres bars had back or reload i’m just used to it the buttons being over

⏹️ ▶️ John there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if it this were me if this were me and god help me i hope this gets released

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can i just put it on record i’m actually in a very good mood but i would also like to put on record that if this were me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying these things the whole of the a t p listenership would say what is wrong with you case

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get over it and embrace twenty sixteen

⏹️ ▶️ John this reload button is not a new thing and every time i mentioned people like oh thank god i hate that reload

⏹️ ▶️ John button in the address bar people thank me profusely for this on line application that reloads

⏹️ ▶️ John webpages badly that’s it and why if is i’m not in this case i’m not the only one

⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t want it then you’re not to use it well because you can do no wrong it’s just that i mean

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s there’s a method to the madness like back for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco reload

⏹️ ▶️ John is the standard way if you use multiple browsers if you’re used to the buttons being over there and you wish the button was back there

⏹️ ▶️ John you can do this it’s the whole point of the two bar and extensions and why you can customize it so you can make the to bar the way you

⏹️ ▶️ John want it i don’t know what your tobar looks like whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s certainly within your rights i’m not trying to like say that you’re not allowed to do that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not ridiculous it’s not a ridiculous notion i mean there is a reload by say you aren’t allowed to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do this this is a terrible idea

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean it is a terrible idea but you do you man i just can fathom that you would you of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all people would look at two reload buttons in the same window how

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the other one is in a button the other

⏹️ ▶️ John one is a tiny cliff what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ John that you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even notice john i love you so much but you are out of your damn mind i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like how how often are you reloading pages and your hands aren’t near the keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ John if you do web development a surprising amount of time apparently like it’s not like i don’t use command r i’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ John i use command or more than the reload button but when i do use the reload button i want it to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where i want it to be and and and having it where you want it to be resulting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this hilariously complex setup and also that like then you have two wheeler buttons on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screen it doesn’t isn’t that worse like it doesn’t that bother you on a fundamental

⏹️ ▶️ John level right like i said the other one isn’t a button it’s a tiny little cliff like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it is

⏹️ ▶️ John not a tiny little cliff it’s a tiny little cliff it’s like smaller than the little lock symbol

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just i don’t even see it it’s it is invisible when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the start x scope and let’s see how small this tiny little lip is now it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John certainly not a button it’s not like it has its own outline it is just tucked into the corner of the address bar

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway i hadn’t like it broken safari twelve or whatever cause like you had to load it manually ever we talked around

⏹️ ▶️ John the show and i was like well whatever i’m not going to bother with it but then when it became clear that i actually can resurrect

⏹️ ▶️ John it if i go through this pain i was waiting waiting and then finally like safari thirties isn’t going to support the old

⏹️ ▶️ John ones at all right so i forget i would bite the bullet and uh resurrect it and

⏹️ ▶️ John many people have thanked me for resurrecting it because they too want to move over reload button for

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever reason i remember i did it i didn’t originally kind of as a joke when safari extensions came

⏹️ ▶️ John out it’s like what is the simplest extension you could possibly make and like well reload but i think it was their example or something

⏹️ ▶️ John like and it was actually more complicated before the app extensions you just you get

⏹️ ▶️ John safari page whatever view and you just call reload the old way you had to inject a script and the script

⏹️ ▶️ John had to remember the scroll position reload the page and reset the scroll position so it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit silly this is twenty two points wide by twenty six points tall it’s not a button though is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it can you click it then it’s a button and click all sorts

⏹️ ▶️ John of things you can click a checkbox checkboxes in a button in a matter of speaking it is you can

⏹️ ▶️ John click a text field text field is in a button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think aren’t aren’t some of these actually buttons i got like the afcat level well where’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the accessibility inspector hold on where’s accessibility inspector bad boy let me see what this

⏹️ ▶️ John says oh i need to add a tooltip because its

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reload this page button label reload this page title reload this page value nil type

⏹️ ▶️ Casey button

⏹️ ▶️ John for accessibility purposes sure it’s button how are you going to describe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it oh god john you go you try to get me out of technicality you

⏹️ ▶️ John remember do you remember that this is a button thing for the nevin bergen made that i concluded one of my standard

⏹️ ▶️ John views

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey button here you but

⏹️ ▶️ John oh my god what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey color is your parachute can we move on to follow up i never thought i’d be this excited to get to follow up this is this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m going to i’m in to need to get a drink or start some follow up one or the other i love you john oh my god by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way i’ve just verified that in the in the act check boxes are indeed and s button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instances

⏹️ ▶️ John score one for me well that’s that that’s just a base class that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey god you’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John technicalities all the way to look in the apple hunt apple human interface guidelines it will

⏹️ ▶️ John say buttons check boxes pop up whatever they call them you know i mean that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the technical term of course got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on i love you so much but oh my god

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco all right

Monodraw & asciiflow

Chapter Monodraw & asciiflow image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s do some follow up and it starts with some askar aps and i thought we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talked about at least one of these in the past did we not not i think i got a bump

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the live sh oh is that what it was okay so in any case there are two scart

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apps that were called to our attention the context here is doing scart in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey comments which i find to be delightful and not everyone does but i do and there’s two options

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we have been turned on to from various people one of which is mono draw which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a mac app it’s specifically for the mac and it looks extremely full featured i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think it’s shareware it’s a free trial by license sort of situation i haven’t tried

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it to be honest but it looks really and truly incredible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i have it it’s amazing i think it’s only ten dollars i immediately bought it once i saw

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it because it’s actually it feels very similar to a paint code and like a lot of like the basic design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco structure of it which i guess is kind of just like mac standard it is delightful like to be able to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just draw out a sky art like as if it’s a drawing tool and it behaves like a drawing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tool there’s like a filled tool there’s like you have different shapes and different like line strokes and everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all generating this ask stuff it’s kind of amazing like i don’t really have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much use for this kind of app that i really needed to buy it but i bought it because it’s just delightful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s just it just makes me smile as a nerd and as a mac user and as a programmer all three of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things this act makes me smile and so it was definitely worth the ten dollars and even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if i never launch it again which is unlikely honestly i think i will i will probably try to find reasons to use it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like even if i never launch it again i’m just so happy this app exists and i’m so happy to give them ten bucks like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s delightful

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah this is like the good old days of mac aps where there would be a high quality native mac

⏹️ ▶️ John app that someone sweated over every detail of for insert ridiculous purpose here

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever it was whatever you wanted it to be whether it was like software for dealing with a dentist office or

⏹️ ▶️ John thing to you know track your workouts or just you know a thing to explore old map

⏹️ ▶️ John some person somewhere loved that thing so much and was a mac developer and made this amazing app

⏹️ ▶️ John not like just a junky thing that someone threw together this sort of works but like a polished application

⏹️ ▶️ John that they sold on their websites for a reasonable fee this is totally a throwback to those days

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is very very cool looking having not even tried it and then additionally there is a web based tool

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called asci flow and we will have both these links in the show notes i was just trying it and marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will fix it in post but i dropped my apple pencil on my desk as i was trying to not use this i was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to use this with the pencil and it is slightly clunky but it is workable in the i’ve had but anyway this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is obviously free app it looks a lot less fancy than mono draw is but if you favor

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something free and less fancy and less good this is also an option so this is called eski

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flow infinity also very cool and it’s cool to see that done on the web so two very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very neat apps if you wanted to be an ask artist

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the flip side of that the beauty of the web is you might need something but you don’t have time to or

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to install software and something like well this is simple enough can i just do this summer in the web right now if you

⏹️ ▶️ John just go to ask the flow dot com instantly you are in the app and you can start using it i’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s less powerful than the native app but it’s nice to have you know it’s the best of both worlds the web is available

⏹️ ▶️ John everywhere accessible to everybody and often free and then if it’s something you really care about having a polished

⏹️ ▶️ John native app is great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excellent

The lasso stump

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we have more information about the thing that marco and i are still skeptical is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called the blending stump but a video from land in apse indicates that it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lasso tool because why not

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t know if it’s also a lasso tool it might only

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco be a

⏹️ ▶️ John lasso tool like i don’t know what it’s called i’ve never heard anyone from apple name it i ask somebody i remember

⏹️ ▶️ John when you were there with me i asked someone in the mac pro demo what is that tool called they had no idea but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it just looks like a lasso tool i don’t know if it does blending at all i’m very confused by this tool

⏹️ ▶️ John it is a fairly faithful rendition of a blending stump but in this video

⏹️ ▶️ John that we will link in the shownotes in someone’s tweet you can see that all does is sort of a magic selection type thing

⏹️ ▶️ John and you get little crawling and borders around the thing you’ve selected

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what it’s called

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by linode my favorite web host go to linode dot com slash

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco distribution whatever distribution that they that they have they have tons of options for you there and you can set it up

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WWDC dust settling

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco credit thank you so much to leonard for hosting all my servers and sponsoring our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can we use this moment now a week on what are you guys most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited about i say know we’re going to talk about some of these things later and there’ll be some file file system talk later

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t you worry but what are you guys most excited about because i’ve started digging into combine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which as i think i said last week at the live show i keep trying to call combine but anyway i’ve dug into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that sum and i’m still very excited about it although i’m in the this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not meeting all my hopes and dreams stage of learning it which is fine that’s part of the process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but swift you eye i have also dabbled with a little bit and again it’s not meeting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all my hopes and dreams but it is very shiny and very cool so i think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my two favorite oh actually i need a third favorite um the new collection view layout

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff what is it called collection view composition layout or something like that i forget exactly what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s called but that looks incredible so i think those

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are my top three i probably could come up with the four if we wanted to stay on brand but i mean i guess staying on brand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is not coming up with all four of them um anyway marco what are your favorite you know one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two three or four things a week on that you that you heard about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco honestly i haven’t had a lot of time to actually dive into like the technical side of this so i could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change my mind once i find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of these things might be like you know not what i thought they were or they might not be ready yet or they might be more limited than i think but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the moment i am super into the idea of using swift you eye especially on the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know like the swift you eye project formerly murmured as the name amber started

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the watch and it shows it’s like the watch is what needed it most badly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it shines clearly so much on the watch and it’s so it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much better than watch it and so even if i like you know right now swift you eye it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very early days for it it’s very limited probably in what it can do you’re still going to have to be calling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out a lot to like you now you get views or controllers to do certain things but on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch it’s such a small problem space that it’s it’s like an even better fit for something that is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new and and you know probably is going to start out so basic so i’m very much looking forward to using that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and replacing my watch at which i you know every every may i tell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco myself i hope i don’t have to rewrite my watch up this summer because i hate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco working on my watch up and whatever and then june comes around and i get some awesome new thing on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sdk and i’m like i should really reappear at the watch up because it can be so much better now and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is the biggest year for that there has ever been it can now be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way better than even it was like you know last year i was able to add offline playback that actually worked reliably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it the files didn’t transfer reliably it’s like the audio part was there last year but i couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do streaming and i might still not be able to do it i don’t know yet depending on what the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco p i is but there is just so much more now that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i can do in the ui and it’s so much more easily and just so much nicer like i’ve never been happy with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interface of my watch up it’s always been crap and different degrees of crap and it’s always been very living

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with what i could do because it was all like this very small set of watch kid tools that you were actually led to use and they weren’t very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good and they had weird behaviours and weird bugs and weird like things you had to do to make them work at all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so having a big reset switch on that is huge for me and it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems like a nice like small attack surface on which i can learn swift and swift

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you eye a lot better before i like bring it into like my big ap

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john i know it may or may not be as directly applicable to you but what what are you still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited for or may be newly excited for i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John still excited for the mac pro as my number one

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of course

⏹️ ▶️ John my number two is swifty eye which i also haven’t really dug into

⏹️ ▶️ John but not so much of what swift i is but what what it will become i’m finally getting a chance

⏹️ ▶️ John to see how it was implemented under the covers which i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John subscribed to i was subscribed to with evolution when is a mailing list and i do stop by the forums

⏹️ ▶️ John these days and try to keep track of the various swift evolution proposals um if i had

⏹️ ▶️ John been on top of them more i could have better predicted what swift you i would be and i’m sure people who were

⏹️ ▶️ John on top of swift evolution more probably did predict what swifty you i would be but suffice

⏹️ ▶️ John it to say that it uses a bunch of features that landed in swift in the past year

⏹️ ▶️ John year and a half um that are essential for making it work and it’s those features that i’m most interested

⏹️ ▶️ John in to see how other people can make a apis like this and to see how swifty eyes going to evolve and then

⏹️ ▶️ John third place i don’t even know like it’s all it’s all my head is entirely filled with mac pro and swifty yes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair enough

APFS in Catalina

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so let’s carry on where we left off last week carry on my wayward son

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s talk about everyone’s favorite topic a p f s

⏹️ ▶️ John you gonna complain you can to complain that marco and i didn’t know that was a reference because we totally did we don’t we don’t tell you

⏹️ ▶️ John the obvious ones just so you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know okay usually that doesn’t happen until well after the show like a few days later i nip it

⏹️ ▶️ John in the bud and the a hundred people saying he said carry on my way with no you didn’t say a thing that means you didn’t know it

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not what it means

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i love that i’ve trained you over the years to

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like the audience needs the bar is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco bar is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco higher than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that oh my god all right so i have a lot of ranting and raving and complaining to do about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey installing catalina but before i put a sour note on everything why don’t you tell stron about what’s going on with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a p f s in catalina

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah but catalina is quite an adventure too kind of like i s thirteen maybe wait for later bills

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re you know if you want to actually use it for something useful but uh this is about the one of my favorite

⏹️ ▶️ John sessions every year we see the file system session sometimes there’s no little ones this year there was just one

⏹️ ▶️ John i love me some good fall system session i went into this one only with the expectation that i’m going to hear about

⏹️ ▶️ John the read only system partition which was something we discussed before w c and in fact it is a thing in catalina

⏹️ ▶️ John and i did and i’ll talk about that first but there was another announcement that i was very excited about in that session

⏹️ ▶️ John which i can understand why i was kind of buried but i’m still excited about it anyway so as

⏹️ ▶️ John for kathleen and the read only system partition if you’re envisioning that as like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll be a separate volume for your operating system that is mounted read only

⏹️ ▶️ John and then a second volume that has all your stuff on it that’s not what you’ll see in catalina

⏹️ ▶️ John they added some pauses and features to us to make this possible first they added a thing they call volume groups

⏹️ ▶️ John which is not as far as i can tell not really groups it’s like volume pairs or

⏹️ ▶️ John the they’re weird limitations to it but anyway it’s sufficient to take two volumes your

⏹️ ▶️ John catalina operating system volume and your everything else volume and merge them with each

⏹️ ▶️ John other so they appear to be one volume even though they are two volumes the catalan

⏹️ ▶️ John volume is read only because that’s your read only system partition and the volume with your stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John is read write and the way they merge them is a little bit weird so they you know apple and

⏹️ ▶️ John its link right so eunuch had sim links and hard links apple didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John invent but ah popularized or pioneered or certainly made the largest

⏹️ ▶️ John number of hard links to directories which is not a thing in traditional unix most of the time

⏹️ ▶️ John hard links are just for files but they made hardings for directories to make time machine possible now they

⏹️ ▶️ John have a thing they’re called firm links and firm lynx are kind of like sim link

⏹️ ▶️ John and that you know you can you can imagine how you can weave two volumes together with symlinks or even with hard links

⏹️ ▶️ John and directories but the oh you can’t do harling and directories across volumes anyway you can you cross volumes with symlinks

⏹️ ▶️ John but silanes have the property that if you like change directory into a symlink you know and you go into

⏹️ ▶️ John that directory you went into a directory called a right when you’re in the directory

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not actually in a directory call day you can name the similan similan was called day but now you’re in some totally other directory

⏹️ ▶️ John because the smiling has transported you to wherever the director is it’s a different director and a different volume of the directory

⏹️ ▶️ John is not called a if you back up a directory from there c d dot dot you

⏹️ ▶️ John will not find yourself where you were before you’ll find yourself one directory up from the target of

⏹️ ▶️ John the sim link and that’s can confuse lots of programs and can

⏹️ ▶️ John confuse shell scripts and other programs people write that don’t understand that sometimes you’re innocent link and pass

⏹️ ▶️ John and anyway canon clausing passes a thing so firm links make it that if you go down one of these

⏹️ ▶️ John links and you go back up you end up right back where you started like they’re bidirectional

⏹️ ▶️ John and reversible all this is to say that if you’re when you’re on catalina it just looks like a disc to you but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s actually two volumes merged together with firm links and as far as i can tell from the session

⏹️ ▶️ John the top volume like the main one is your read only system partition and then

⏹️ ▶️ John the slash users directory and a few other things are firm link to your read

⏹️ ▶️ John write data partition so you will only see a single disc it is a merging of two volumes and

⏹️ ▶️ John it uses this weird feature called firm link i’m sure those can be weird edge cases and lots of fun but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s nicer and is interest perspective because people might not you know who don’t listen to this program

⏹️ ▶️ John we don’t care about reality system orders will have no idea this took place and by the way it’s not optional you install

⏹️ ▶️ John catalina it will do this to your system and it makes it very easy as marco found out

⏹️ ▶️ John if you makes it very easy to make new volumes because it’s all shared space you don’t have to like squash all your data into a little

⏹️ ▶️ John section to free up a big continuous contiguous block of you know storage

⏹️ ▶️ John arry on your desk to put a second volume you can make a second third fourth fifth volume it doesn’t matter just throw it all in the same

⏹️ ▶️ John container as handles it um so this is going to happen during your upgrade and you might not know it but actually

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve got two things merged together which is kind of neat so casey before i move on to the

⏹️ ▶️ John one new interesting feature in the fossil sun session how was your experience going through the catalina

⏹️ ▶️ John installer

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ John does all this stuff to your desk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so my thought was having so let me back up a half step i never installed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a mac a beta version of macos ever to the best of my recollection i’ve just never had any desire to i’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a mac developer never wanted it etcetera but apple dangled the carrot of swifty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eye now swifty eye does work i’m a have except that if you want the fancy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey schmancy live preview where everything is being updated as you’re typing it you must be on catalina

⏹️ ▶️ Casey okay fine so i’ll install catalina and what i did was i bought myself a an external

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ssd a half turbid external ssd the particular one i got is the sandisk and i like it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quite a lot it has usb c n but it comes with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a u s b c to s b c chord and then it also has a u s b c to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sb a adapter if that makes sense so basically i can use it with my old imac i can use it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with my mac book it’s fine so i started on my macbook which was probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a mistake and i thought okay i will use my little apple my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eighty dollar apple dongle so i can plug in power and a usb b device i’m sorry in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a device into my u s b c my single usb c port and many hours later and many

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reboots later it just did not work i just could not get it to work on the external then i go to the imac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i do basically the same thing work no problem runs reasonably fast everything’s good so i thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right fine well a p f s is supposed to be good and you know i have enough space on this macbook so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i actually i’m going to say repartition but that’s ultimately not what i did but i basically made space for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey catalina to run adjacent to mojave on my internal necessity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my macbook and that actually worked no problem but i thought i was doing the right thing where i’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey got my external i’m not going to mess at all with the internal drive in the macbook and i just could not get it to work it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very well could have been the user error i don’t know how it was but it could have been but i am still i remain

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somewhat frustrated that my poor little two year old macbook that admittedly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slower than dirt just could not do it over the u s p drive and i don’t think that’s a catalina problem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think of anything it’s a macbook problem but i was sad you guys that being said one i finally got you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know the these things installed the installation was fairly easy i don’t remember anything particularly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey remarkable about it and holy cow swift you eye on catalina is good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff it’s not perfect but it is good stuff so if you are adventurous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and especially if you have an external drive and not a macbook i cannot recommend it enough it is excellent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in marco for you doing watch kit stuff i’m sorry not watch kit for you doing swifty eye on the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t i honestly don’t know if you’ve installed kennel in or not yet but i cannot recommend it enough because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is way better aunt catalina doing swifty eye than it is in a hobby

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i did the thing where i installed in on a second partition and that worked fine for me so that for listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way to do is basically i make the second partition you can make an a p f space sharing one so you’re not actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco losing any space on your on your main disk and there’s there’s two ways to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do it when number one is install a copy of mojave on the second partition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco log into that and then download the beta profile on that and have it updated itself making sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the updater is actually going to run that volume which is clumsy but a little bit you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco safe and isolated the other way to do it and i’ve done one of each of these now is to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco install the beta profile on your main installation mohave download the installer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then when it says what volume to install on pick your pick your new one and then let it install

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then remove the beta profile from your main mohave yea that’s what i did in both cases if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use file vault on your main mojave installation when the second installation of catalina

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when that boots up it won’t see the mojave disk and it will prompt you to enter the password for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it but you don’t have to enter it if you just hit cancel then the catalina instance will be able to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see none of the files on your mojave instance which is actually kind of convenient for keeping things isolated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and making sure the beta doesn’t mess up your main disk um so that’s i did the the mohave

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then catalina like reinstallation thing on my laptop and i did the like beta and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then removed the beta direct installation on my desktop and both worked totally fine so i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have seen it and and i unfortunately like i’ve never really run mac betas because i’ve never wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to because that’s crazy you know this is like my production machine i have to have everything working right but this summer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s going to be different because i have to do a lot of development on catalina because you also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t do any catalyst development on mohan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i wanted so like for most of the ex code work i’m going to be doing this summer i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably going to want to or need to be doing it on catalina so i have a feeling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m going to be spending a lot of time booted into that and at some point if the bat has become stable enough i think i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just going to migrate my main installation to it just to make things simpler

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john have you touched it at all

⏹️ ▶️ John i haven’t installed it yet i’ve been busily doing other computer maintenance stuff i don’t plan on installing

⏹️ ▶️ John debates although when i was when i was writing my my quote unquote mac app and swift and had

⏹️ ▶️ John the language version pop up it maxed out at four point two and that was kind of disappointing i couldn’t use

⏹️ ▶️ John any of the neat features that were demonstrated in or that are demonstrated by swifty ye not that i had

⏹️ ▶️ John reason to but i just wanted to like i don’t know write something but yeah so that’s it’s a fact of life with a

⏹️ ▶️ John mac development you do need the latest o s and latest version to do that and

⏹️ ▶️ John where you get the latest version of xcode to do development for it although you probably installed the beta of exco

⏹️ ▶️ John back on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey i’m assume yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s i did at first to play with swifty eye and then that’s when i realized wait a second the canvas

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think exco thinks it’s showing the canvas but it’s not showing the canvas and that in the canvas being the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey live preview thing and so you’re exactly right you can do all of this by all this i mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can use swift you eye and swift five et cetera are five one and mojave it’s just that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you don’t get any the new hotness with the don’t call it a simulator simulator in the canvas

⏹️ ▶️ John and you can’t run like marco said cate saps because i guess the libraries all aren’t there so no i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t think i’ll install the beta though mohave as been fighting me and doing weird things lately

⏹️ ▶️ John so maybe i don’t know i haven’t installed betas in a long time like for years and years i had to have

⏹️ ▶️ John the beta install all he time and it’s just nice to be ale to be running the release version but the release version of a hobby has not been friendly

⏹️ ▶️ John to this five k max so maybe i’ll be great sooner read than later we’ll see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right tell me about volume replication

⏹️ ▶️ John yes so this is the new feature so they started off in the false session after they did all the cattle in the

⏹️ ▶️ John read only system predictions saying oh volume replication i’m like oh this is great because it means a feature that existed for

⏹️ ▶️ John hfs plus but they hadn’t updated it for a pfs so the apple system restore

⏹️ ▶️ John as r command line no replicates a pfs volumes which is nice and also

⏹️ ▶️ John you can point to a particular snapshot so you can say copy from volume a snap shot two you can copy

⏹️ ▶️ John that over to the volume so you don’t have to copy from the volume a

⏹️ ▶️ John the head of the volume so to speak um and that’ll be useful for backup programs time

⏹️ ▶️ John machine already does this time machine already takes a snapshot in a p f s and backs up from that so it

⏹️ ▶️ John has a single point in time ah you know consistent view of the foul system as opposed to the

⏹️ ▶️ John h of s plus days whatever you know painting the golden gate bridge style it would start in a time machine back up

⏹️ ▶️ John and it would slowly work its way through your files and an hour later would complete and what you would have a copy of

⏹️ ▶️ John is like the files spread over that hour i think it went back it would go back again and try to catch up but like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a you know you just you’re chasing your own tail at a certain point if changes are constantly being made to the

⏹️ ▶️ John source volume you’re never going to be quote unquote caught up whereas a snapshot takes a point in time snapshot and said here’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John state of the whole volume and it’s cheap to do so it’s been doing that for years so now apple system restore

⏹️ ▶️ John utility can copy from a snapshot onto a target volume but now here’s the exciting

⏹️ ▶️ John new feature and also why they didn’t talk about it this year so if you copy

⏹️ ▶️ John snapshot number you know from volume a snapshot number one over to volume b

⏹️ ▶️ John and then a day later you take a new snapshot of volume a and you

⏹️ ▶️ John say i want to copy this new shot snap shot over to volume b when you already copied

⏹️ ▶️ John snapshot one yesterday and it would be wasteful for it to copy

⏹️ ▶️ John all of snap shot two over cause probably mostly the snap between snapshot one and two not that much has changed

⏹️ ▶️ John while a b f s a and a s r in catalina can tell what

⏹️ ▶️ John has changed between snapshot one and snap shot two and it will only send the

⏹️ ▶️ John changed data over in an efficient manner rather than the again the old time machine one

⏹️ ▶️ John was like it would try to keep track of like what directories have changed but it would end up having to scan a bunch of files and figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John okay well this directory has changed since then according to the office events log what files in this directory have changed do i need to

⏹️ ▶️ John copy them all this other stuff this is probably not as fancy

⏹️ ▶️ John and efficient as the if as a block deltas between snapshots but maybe a little bit more flexible

⏹️ ▶️ John this obviously would be ideal for a time machine but as far as i’m aware

⏹️ ▶️ John time machine catalina does not use this technology because i think if it did they would have said so in the session

⏹️ ▶️ John they would have said and this is what the new version of time machine catalina uses to be so much fat more fast than efficient

⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t say that i haven’t installed catalina so i don’t know but if it if this is not implemented

⏹️ ▶️ John in catalina time machine then i think next year finally will be what we’ve what we’ve all in for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco what i’ve been waiting for which

⏹️ ▶️ John is a b f s this great new file system it’s a lot of its features

⏹️ ▶️ John are an ideal fit for time machine and yet up until the you know well i

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know i don’t know about catalina but you couldn’t even use a p f s as a time machine

⏹️ ▶️ John volume in mojave and earlier you could have the source volume b p f s but you couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have the target volume of time machine backup so now finally in either catalina or in the operating

⏹️ ▶️ John system that comes after it next year time machine should get a lot faster a lot more

⏹️ ▶️ John efficient and a lot lot less you know disk grinding

⏹️ ▶️ John i guess that’s not the right term anymore because we all have ssds but a lot friendlier to your ssd both

⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of reads and hopefully writes and won’t have to use won’t have to create

⏹️ ▶️ John you know thousands or millions of hard links to directories all of which are stored in a hidden

⏹️ ▶️ John directory at the top level of each of us plus drives is horrifying don’t look so i’m excited

⏹️ ▶️ John that the advantages of a p f s we just described the bunch of advantages how easy it is to re partie unquote repartition

⏹️ ▶️ John which is not a thing anymore just make a new volume right on top of all your other volumes how easy that is

⏹️ ▶️ John how it’s so easy that apple’s going to do it without an option to you know

⏹️ ▶️ John to do otherwise when you stall catalina it is going to quote unquote repartition everyone’s disks and soon

⏹️ ▶️ John it will make time machine morphism so this has been a banner year for

⏹️ ▶️ John a you know file system advances improving

⏹️ ▶️ John all our quality of life and maybe next year will be the big banner year when time machine finally gets the update

⏹️ ▶️ Casey man everything’s coming up syracuse

⏹️ ▶️ John good year good and c

User-space drivers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey alright tell me about user space drivers why do i care about

⏹️ ▶️ John this more file system stuff on my they talked about this in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kino right craig mentioned it at the talk show live about like how like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how they moving the like mass storage drivers and file system drivers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of the kernel and into userspace was why the ipad got usb

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drive support

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they talked about it instead of the union to so anyway this is not just false some stuff it’s userspace

⏹️ ▶️ John drivers in general so basically kernel extensions as we know them pieces of code that that apple

⏹️ ▶️ John and third parties could write that would literally run inside the colonel in the outer space of the colonel ah

⏹️ ▶️ John those are essentially deprecated it’s always been dangerous to let third parties do

⏹️ ▶️ John that because if you are inside the colonel you have the highest privilege you can have in the operating system and you

⏹️ ▶️ John can do all sorts of bad things kernel extensions are supposed to not do bad things like caused colonel

⏹️ ▶️ John panics and other things they take down the entire operating system or snoop day there stuff like that and over

⏹️ ▶️ John the past several years apple is becoming more and more strict about what it take takes to be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John write a kernel extension that can be loaded by mac users with a default security setting so first

⏹️ ▶️ John who like apple has to sign them and then it’s like they can only be loaded if people have settings a certain way so you couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John just be like i’m going to make a kernel extension i’m going to put it up on my website anyone can download it they could but if you didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John go through apple with the whole signing thing it wouldn’t be able to load unless someone changed the gatekeeper

⏹️ ▶️ John settings to be like load everything and turned off to some anyway ah this long road has been leading

⏹️ ▶️ John to the point where they say you know it just not write those anymore because there’s no real way to make them safe

⏹️ ▶️ John if you do something wrong in your cornel extension you can take you can and will take out the entire system

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s just you know it’s something we want to we prefer if that wasn’t a possibility at all

⏹️ ▶️ John um so user space drivers lets you write a driver for whatever it is a piece of hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John something you’d normaly make cornel extension for but do it in user space and historically that hasn’t been

⏹️ ▶️ John done because it’s less efficient to switch from user space to colonel space and back and forth in a rapid manner

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not sure how they’re mitigating that i don’t think i’ve seen any session that has explained how they’re able to do this

⏹️ ▶️ John and make it more efficient but the bottom line is that they are doing it and the interesting thing in the

⏹️ ▶️ John userspace driver session that i saw was this may be the last time that

⏹️ ▶️ John anybody at w w c gets to do the equivalent of the classic bomb ap

⏹️ ▶️ John demo ah back when back when the mac operating system did not

⏹️ ▶️ John have protected memory and we were all waiting for whatever the next generation operating system

⏹️ ▶️ John would be from apple and they they you know almost bought b and were thinking of getting the windows nt kernel

⏹️ ▶️ John and had seven internal projects several of them were announced but then cancelled publicly

⏹️ ▶️ John and it was just an embarrassing time when apple finally had a next generation os strategy i think it was

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe rhapsody even before macos ten but either way i think they did macos ten as well they did they

⏹️ ▶️ John would do a demo at their developer conference but they would say here is an application that’s going to like dereference an all pointer like

⏹️ ▶️ John an application meant to crash and he would have a window and in the window would be the classic mac like cannonball

⏹️ ▶️ John black bomb icon like a huge version of the bomb icon i think sometimes the little fuse

⏹️ ▶️ John was sparking or whatever and the app would run for a second and use i click on it or something and they would crash

⏹️ ▶️ John right and they would launch that app and they’d say and here we go crash and the apple crash and the window would

⏹️ ▶️ John disappear and then the presenter would say and look the operating system is still running and the audience

⏹️ ▶️ John would cheer they would cheer so loud you would think they were announcing p s for controller support

⏹️ ▶️ John it was the most crowded pleasing demo ever and like you know anyone who is like using unix or like even

⏹️ ▶️ John windows and to be like boy these poor suckers like they’re they’re cheering for memory protection right you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John get to do the demo anymore we just assume that if an ap crashes of course doesn’t take out your operating system what century is this right

⏹️ ▶️ John well the userspace driver session they said here i’m going to make a driver and in this

⏹️ ▶️ John driver they said i’m going to add an infinite loop which would be very bad if you’re an infinite loop inside the colonel

⏹️ ▶️ John very very bad indeed and also right after the infinite loop which are like how are you ever

⏹️ ▶️ John going to reach out anyway right after the infinite loop loop i will add a null pointer de reference so

⏹️ ▶️ John they used the driver and they plugged in some piece of hardware that activated the driver and the driver you know went along

⏹️ ▶️ John and went into its infinite loop and basically they showed look the operating system is still working even though the driver

⏹️ ▶️ John is just spinning in an infinite loop right and then he attached to it with the ld b and like modified the loop

⏹️ ▶️ John condition to get it out of the infinite loop and immediately had the next line which was no pointed reverence and it

⏹️ ▶️ John crashed the driver and the driver crashed and the operating system was fine and the driver order relaunched

⏹️ ▶️ John itself and that was an exciting demo and i think this is the last time or to

⏹️ ▶️ John have the exciting didn’t have as much pause as the mom at but it was still pretty neat and as margaret

⏹️ ▶️ John said before why do we care about this a couple of reasons one if you ever had

⏹️ ▶️ John some piece of hardware or some application that installed a kernel extension and you start getting colonel

⏹️ ▶️ John panics now just your application will crash but at least the rest of your operating system

⏹️ ▶️ John will be fine right and two i don’t know if this is the reason they didn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John mass storage support in the files app but it was stated as one of the things that helped bring

⏹️ ▶️ John about mass storage access in iowa was that now they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have to worry about a bug in the driver or something because apple’s gonna ride these drivers not like they’re latin people distribute

⏹️ ▶️ John colonel extensions rawa if there’s some sort of bug in the driver that you’re able to exploit by plugging in

⏹️ ▶️ John some malicious usb key or something that could suddenly corrupt the colonel or jailbreak or whatever they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have to worry about that because files and drivers in ios and macos now exist

⏹️ ▶️ John in user space so there’s no way they can in theory there’s no way they can get at colonel memory and start doing nasty

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff and the way this is related to dropbox and one drive another stuff like that

⏹️ ▶️ John that uh where was this the teacher enter interview with a craig federici he mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ John that these user space sort of file system driver mechanism

⏹️ ▶️ John they also have a p i s that can be used by companies like dropbox and one drive where they drop bucks

⏹️ ▶️ John says the thing i am not sure what the one drive equivalent is where they give you it looks like a view of the file system but the

⏹️ ▶️ John files actually aren’t there like it doesn’t put all the files on your disk as the traditional drop box did the files

⏹️ ▶️ John are over on the server and when you access those files behind the scenes that goes and fetches the bites

⏹️ ▶️ John from the server as you need them that’s all done with weird filesystem driver mag magic

⏹️ ▶️ John um these user space file system drivers can be used and there you know i’m sure apple want these companies

⏹️ ▶️ John to use by companies like dropbox to add this functionality in a way that doesn’t screw with your kernel and

⏹️ ▶️ John that a less chance of messing up your system there’s always been the fuse system what is it

⏹️ ▶️ John false system and user space whatever there’s i’ve used s s h f s until

⏹️ ▶️ John you know user space fossils and drivers and they’re great because they may be buggy and might not work but it’s not going to affect

⏹️ ▶️ John the stability of your system so i am excited for all the drivers

⏹️ ▶️ John that aren’t super performance critical to go into user space i’m excited for a dropbox

⏹️ ▶️ John to be a better behaved application than less of a chance of posing my system and i also

⏹️ ▶️ John hope somewhere somehow i can learn how they’ve implemented the userspace passion drivers

⏹️ ▶️ John in a way that is efficient so if anyone knows where i can get that information please send me the link or

⏹️ ▶️ John the wc session details

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excellent well that sounds good to me i mean i don’t know if i’m quite as jazzed about it as you are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it sounds good to me

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ll be happy when your stuff doesn’t crash i mean that’s the thing with crashes like when you

⏹️ ▶️ John get i get colonel packs on my laptop as we discussed every once in a while i’ve always

⏹️ ▶️ John attributed them to my weird thunderbolt dock thing but honestly i don’t know the more stuff the more

⏹️ ▶️ John third party software we can get out of the colonel the better

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so that’s it for me for this episode it’s been great being with you guys all right i’m going to go to sleep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell me about the macro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one thing i loved that we didn’t know last time i know i know you have this letter down what i’m going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to talk about it i love that the mac pro kind of asterisk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has hard drive bays inside of it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wait it does oh you mean the ssd things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no no no i mean three point five inch hard drive bays so it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sort of asterisk so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this works so so on the inside of it we mentioned we had seen in the little hands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on thing and we mentioned in the live show ah that there are two sata ports on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the inside right next to that u s b a port on the inside to put like the d r m dongles for perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so there’s inside like near the top of the case there is a u s b a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco port next to it is two sata ports and a power header for them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and above them is like like in front of them is basically a big empty space and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it turns out this is kind of like when apple like outsources things it doesn’t feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making two belkin or or logic or lg apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has basically outsourced the mac pro’s drive bays to pegasus so pegasus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sells two modules for the mac pro one of them i think we saw already one of them is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the r four i and this is a full size m p x module so this is one of those like full

⏹️ ▶️ Marco length three slot wide pci express things that seems to mount in in some kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of firm way that one takes four hard drives and has a built in raid controller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that’s and that’s i don’t think they’ve announced pricing of either of these things yet but that’s probably going to be fairly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expensive and i also kind of think it’s hilarious to mount four hard drives in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pci express slot even though yes i know that they have all these like screw mount points and it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be really secure in there that still seems comically heavy to put in a pci

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot so i don’t know i’m not sure how comfortable i feel it even though i’m sure they thought of it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i’m sure it’s safe and everything but it just seems wrong

⏹️ ▶️ John the vibrations alone right like the spinning disk or violin to slowly work the contacts out of there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i know it shouldn’t be part like the m p x modules it just feels like the wrong place to put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four three and a half inch hard drives but so that’s that’s the pegasus our four y

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big four slot raid one that goes in the main slot but the pegasus j two i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco appears to have no circuitry at all it appears to be just like a mount for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two disks that plug directly into that those two sata ports and the power

⏹️ ▶️ Marco header next to them in the top open space of the mac pro so really the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mac pro has two three and a half inch hard drive bays in that top space they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just optional and sold by pegasus that i think is kind of fun like i like i’m not sure i would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use them but i’m really happy to have the option because like one thing one thing that we’ve lost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the in the in the move away from che’s greater macros and that for the last you know x

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years we’ve lost the ability to have a whole bunch of internal storage because this is correspondent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the ssd revolution which is wonderful for speed and everything and i still love it all as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer but as a result we have to have like external drives or nas boxes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or other like complex external expensive things in order to get like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large bulk storage for archive storage or for videos or for media servers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or for time machine and i always loved when i had the tower mac pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i always loved just having four hard drives in there and just having all of my storage internal so it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just it was a cleaner set up it was way cheaper to get big storage and although nothing about this new ma pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is cheaper really but you know it’s all relative i guess i was i’m actually like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really happy to see this because back when we were discussing what we thought would be in the next macro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco none of us would have guessed that there would be any three and a half inch drive bays and while there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technically aren’t in a stock configuration the fact that they clearly designed it with that in mind and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically allowed for these modules to exist and honestly apple probably designed them and had handled the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sign to pegasus the fact that these exist and were made for it and it was designed with them in mind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is awesome so now you can theoretically i mean heck you can i think you can fit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to three m p x modules right just two okay so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well you could theoretically have two pegasus are four eyes one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pegasus j two i and a regular pci express video card that isn’t an mpx module to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have you be to be your video card and you could then theoretically have a ten

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three and a half inch hard drives inside your macpro oh my word that’s a lot of terrific

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that’s really cool

⏹️ ▶️ John this setting was actually under this whole topic was under the idea of the question that came up during the live show

⏹️ ▶️ John or third parties allowed to make impact modules answer yes and apple seems to love pegasus like they they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John always promoting pegasus as the maker of their raid and other storage stuff the main thing i’m interested in is

⏹️ ▶️ John i do want internal drives probably not spinning disks cause if i wanted to buy humongous

⏹️ ▶️ John spinning disk i would shove them in a ass somewhere but i’ll probably use one of my old ssds

⏹️ ▶️ John as like a boot camp thing and if i want to have internal time machine storage

⏹️ ▶️ John and i get like a four terrified you know sata ssd like it’s you know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fine for a time machine backup purposes although might be kind of expensive anyway i like the idea of having

⏹️ ▶️ John room for internal storage no matter what it happens to be in whatever slots ago because there there are so many slots

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not going to fill all the slots there’s so much room inside that case i may actually be interested

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe in this you know j two i think just because why not like i have big hard drives lying

⏹️ ▶️ John around and it’s better than trying to find an external enclosure and having these wires dangling out of the thing and plugging

⏹️ ▶️ John up some of your ports and having to deal with the extra power like it’s all inside the case i manage

⏹️ ▶️ John to having one of the many advantages to having a mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and like like the you know like the limitation of sara as the bus instead of like you know direct connect m v

⏹️ ▶️ Marco m whatever like for something like time machine or for like a big archive files drive or like the drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your store all your itunes media on or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t matter like it’s it’s fast enough for that and so like it would be such a cool set up even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you never put a spinning disk in it for like you know noise or heat or whatever reasons for me it would be noise but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you can get mounts that mount a two and a half in just as d into a three and a half in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard drive sized box and so just get two of those for like twelve bucks each stick it in the peas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can mount two sata ssds which these days don’t cost very much any more so that’s pretty cool

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah and the heat noise like i’m doing this right now like i’m on my two thousand eight micros still chugging along

⏹️ ▶️ John down there i i boot off one terrified samsung s and these spinning

⏹️ ▶️ John disks are all unmounted or otherwise asleep and when the thing wakes

⏹️ ▶️ John up at three am to do superduper backup it will mount the disk do the superduper backup and

⏹️ ▶️ John unmount it like so during the day it’s not on and not spinning and therefore makes no noise

⏹️ ▶️ John and no heat that’s great but i have the advantage that i have you know cheap spinning disk

⏹️ ▶️ John storage to do a super door back up our time machine or whatever this is all pretty nacido this budget and this only has

⏹️ ▶️ John four internal drives you know the one is a stay in the three spinning dis my boot camp disk in this very machine is a

⏹️ ▶️ John spinning disk with i think windows xp on or something anyway i am excited about

⏹️ ▶️ John my boot camp future i did confirm that with a the apple folks that the mac pro does indeed

⏹️ ▶️ John support boot camp how well we’ll see but at least that’s the official party line that it sports

⏹️ ▶️ John step one yeah um so details about the macro not too much but just

⏹️ ▶️ John little stuff that mostly we knew probably the day after the live show but since live shows on keynote date is a

⏹️ ▶️ John lot we don’t know um so we discuss never knows the sort of lift off case where rather

⏹️ ▶️ John than a door opening on the side or the back or something you lift the entire case off vertically

⏹️ ▶️ John um and that’s cool in the demos and it lets you do you know a the

⏹️ ▶️ John cool handle on top and he revealed the naked robotic core underneath and shortly

⏹️ ▶️ John after the intro i got to thinking if i put this under a desk

⏹️ ▶️ John i can’t lift the case off till i get it the ram or anything right because they will hit the desk

⏹️ ▶️ John so again wheels would come in handy here i’d have to slide it out from the desk to get the vertical

⏹️ ▶️ John space to lift the top of the thing off the second thing i learned from the the folks

⏹️ ▶️ John and the come look at alive macpro thing is that if you lift the

⏹️ ▶️ John case off the computer will turn off like the computer cannot be on when the case is lifted off there

⏹️ ▶️ John is like an interlock mechanism and that locking thing where if it was on and you try to twist that handle it just

⏹️ ▶️ John cuts power to the whole thing like you cannot take the case off with the computer still on which is unlike

⏹️ ▶️ John all the power all the power mac g five and the mac pro i frequently take the door

⏹️ ▶️ John off my pro while it’s still running to look around in there to blow some dust while it’s still going or

⏹️ ▶️ John to check on some weird fan noise that i think i hear to see what the deal is not in this computer

⏹️ ▶️ John when it’s when the case is off the computer is off and the final thing that’s made me think about which i didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think to ask when i was there but now i’m kind of curious about is so the macro has ports on

⏹️ ▶️ John top of the case and but when you lift the case off the ports come with it

⏹️ ▶️ John so how do the ports connect to the rest of the computer there must be some really cool like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John know interconnect custom interconnect mechanism that like plugs the thunderbolt

⏹️ ▶️ John ports and the power button and all the other sort of circuitry into the computer and i would love to see what that

⏹️ ▶️ John looks like you couldn’t see it at the the live thing because they just had sort of the naked robotic car with nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John in it and enclosed macros they didn’t have last in it and any the meeting i was in they didn’t have a place

⏹️ ▶️ John where you could actually look at the inside of the case so as soon as someone as soon as i fix it gets this thing that’ll be fun to see how

⏹️ ▶️ John all that stuff works that’s pretty cool yeah and speaking of the case and the holes

⏹️ ▶️ John that everybody loves or everybody loves to hate i guess the two ones are this one i’ve seen a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John people speculating about how the holes are made some person took some wood in their

⏹️ ▶️ John wood shop and tried to make the same hole pattern by by using like a drill bit they came pretty close

⏹️ ▶️ John it looked very similar but i think and i heard it described on another podcast as

⏹️ ▶️ John like one set of circles and another set of circles behind it that are offset they’re just like their circular holes

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re offset from each other and that’s not actually what it is again i can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John i haven’t seen the inside of it but from the outside i’m pretty sure the way this is machine is that the

⏹️ ▶️ John the holes or the if you can imagine the tool that makes us i think the tool basically makes hemispherical

⏹️ ▶️ John dense right so they’re not it’s not just making cylindrical cuts it’s cutting

⏹️ ▶️ John little like the dimples on a golf ball little hemispherical dense

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah that that explains the shape and like that’s why like the the wood mock up wasn’t quite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same because it was more of a cylinder and and like it does seem like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the tool that is milling out these holes although we don’t know anything about manufacturing but it seems like it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has a rounded end as opposed to a flat end

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah who knows it could just be some single thing that’s like you know like three d printed or not three printed but you know what i mean like

⏹️ ▶️ John a single tiny pointy tool that makes hemispherical shapes but anyway my impression is that there are

⏹️ ▶️ John hemispherical divots cut on the front and there is a series of offset hemispherical

⏹️ ▶️ John diets cut on the back so again i’ll love to see this thing and take a look at it and the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason we’re talking about these these little holes is i forget where i heard this the some

⏹️ ▶️ John was saying oh this the design for these holes actually has been on an apple for a long time and marco

⏹️ ▶️ John when he was hanging out in the let’s look at the mac pro program with tim cook and johnny

⏹️ ▶️ John ive the discussion they were having about it happens all the time like if you see tim cook and johnny ive in

⏹️ ▶️ John like a demo room after a press thing no matter what it is they’re always talking to each other and like johnny is always

⏹️ ▶️ John telling tim about things and i’ve always thought like is that like theater or

⏹️ ▶️ John is johnny telling tim things that he doesn’t know like you would think like johnny say well we decided to make

⏹️ ▶️ John the like does tim not know has he not been in the meetings did someone not review say by the way releasing a mac par let

⏹️ ▶️ John me tell you about it time is like he’s hearing about it for the very first time oh tell me more about the case why

⏹️ ▶️ John did you make it like this anyway they were having one of those conversations legitimate or not i don’t know i think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a little bit of theatre yeah honest it has to be i don’t know if it in in

⏹️ ▶️ John that conversation that marco was standing near someone was filming it

⏹️ ▶️ John on their phone and they uploaded a video and you can of kind of hear kind of make out tim and johnny’s conversation

⏹️ ▶️ John as far as i can tell and as far as other people on the internet can tell by trying to decipher what they’re saying in this noisy room

⏹️ ▶️ John johnny is telling tim that the lattice pattern on the front of the

⏹️ ▶️ John new mac pro was originally developed for the g for cube developed for but

⏹️ ▶️ John not released on the g four cubes like they they were trying to come up with is the g for cube

⏹️ ▶️ John is like a chimney a a heat remover thing like there’s no fans but there was like

⏹️ ▶️ John cold air comes in the bottom and then and then the hot air rises right though it is like a convection type

⏹️ ▶️ John system and i assumed they were going to use this for either the top or the bottom of the convention they ended up using something

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot simpler with little slots or whatever but i think that’s what they said so if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John wondering how apple came up with this strange some people think ugly some people think upsetting

⏹️ ▶️ John designed for the front of their mac pro the answer is apparently that they came up with it for the g

⏹️ ▶️ John four cube which was what two thousand one so you know eighteen years ago

⏹️ ▶️ John and now it sees the light of day on the front the front and back of their amazing new

⏹️ ▶️ John computer and the back of their monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and i’m guessing i mean part of the reason why they might not have used it before is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like people are telling us to know about manufacturing that like in order to manufacture that in order to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have like the tool that drills out of those holes it basically gets really expensive like it’s going to be a very expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco type of pattern and material to make and so they might have decided back in the g for cube

⏹️ ▶️ Marco days we don’t need to do this it’s too expensive and you know we’ll just use a simpler pattern instead but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with this product i think they have price is less of an object to them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for this product now these days and also they i think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the the design of it is more important to them than it used to be like the physical design of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco metal is more important now to modern day apple than than it was in two dozen one

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah they did some attempts to justify it during the kind and the little videos as saying like that it allows

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco lots

⏹️ ▶️ John of air to go through and that is incredibly structurally strong a structurally strong i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John sure that’s true but it’s pointless because as i said in the live show who cares it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a load bearing part like there’s no there doesn’t need to be strong and as for air going

⏹️ ▶️ John through i would imagine that there is more open space on the front of the old cheese grater like

⏹️ ▶️ John cumulatively than there is in this one the bottom line they just did it cause it looks cool like this just fine it’s the fine reason

⏹️ ▶️ John to do it you know it may be upsetting to some people i think after seeing it in person i

⏹️ ▶️ John find it a lot less upsetting in person than i did in pictures yeah they’ll probably not my cup of

⏹️ ▶️ John tea but it does look better when you see one in person

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah like when you when you see the pictures of it they’re doing this very like perfectly evenly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lit perfectly straight on flat view of it which it looks really weird

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that way and that’s why i’m going to refuse to ever use that whole pattern as part of our podcast artwork because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s really weird looking from the front but when you see it in person you’re not seeing it in that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact perfection even lighting it like you’re seeing it as a three d object in space and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so like and anyone can do that by by doing the download of the ar model from the from the from the website

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on your phone or your bot and you can see for yourself like when you actually see it in three d space it doesn’t look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as upsetting it i wouldn’t say it looks good honestly but it doesn’t look upsetting but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think they also like i think you’re right they they did it now in part because they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could in part because i think they have more price you know profit margin with which to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do fancy machining but also i think they were going back to a cheese grader

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically i don’t think they wanted it to look that similar to the old one and so if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they would have done a simpler whole pattern maybe it would have looked too similar and maybe they wanted to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make a really big statement that like that the they this wasn’t like a retreat this wasn’t like they got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco defeated by their fancy cylinder design they had to go back to the cheese bear they wanted us to look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a new thing a separate thing and to have it look striking and radically different from what was what was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there in the old one so from that point of view if that was one of their goals i think they succeeded because this really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does look very different in the cheese greater even though it basically is a cheese grater yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John i could have gone with the vertical slats of horizontal slats are also some other patterns but they did go with you know fairly

⏹️ ▶️ John circular holes but here’s the thing this like i think this pulls off the thing that good apple hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John always pulls off when i came home and looked at my two thousand eight apr under my desk it looked old

⏹️ ▶️ John i mean to be fair it is really old

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey true but

⏹️ ▶️ John it looked old much older than it did before i left the week before when i left for us mostly because

⏹️ ▶️ John you see that like oh this is just like you know kind of not too

⏹️ ▶️ John thick aluminum bent in a s shape with a door on the side and then some time thinner aluminum bent

⏹️ ▶️ John around the front with holes drilled in it like it’s not as impressive a piece of sculpture

⏹️ ▶️ John and you mentioned like showing the computer from the front like i took some pictures myself

⏹️ ▶️ John i tweeted them the other day of the mac pros and i think even in my own directly from the front

⏹️ ▶️ John with apple sort of glamour lighting on it i think even that looks good like it

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like a more impressive thing it looks it doesn’t look like most things most things you see

⏹️ ▶️ John are most products you see look the way they do partly because it is efficient and are inexpensive

⏹️ ▶️ John to manufacture in that way and so when you see something that is not efficient to manufacture and that is expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John to manufacture it stands out to you because you’re not used to seeing products that are like that it’s true of

⏹️ ▶️ John some of the exteriors and interiors of very very fancy cars and it’s also true of the best apple

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware and this new tower even though it’s like oh it’s just just another cheese grater

⏹️ ▶️ John standing next to an old style cheese grater it looks much more expensive it

⏹️ ▶️ John just does like it looks like an object that should cost more based on

⏹️ ▶️ John pure manufacturing alone and i’m sure it does so in that respect it is fulfilling that of like

⏹️ ▶️ John it does not look like a treat every treat looks like an advancement it looks like a it looks like a fancier product

⏹️ ▶️ John than the old cheese grater mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pro and and i mean it is like you know price and segmentation wise like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the old mac pro when that was i mean first of all it was basically a g five you know with slight modifications to the exterior

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the like the original mac pro in two thousand six you could get one they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had as john would say stripe configuration for like seventeen hundred dollars or sixteen hundred dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was it was actually below two thousand dollars if you like went to only one cpu and there there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were a couple other options you could so like that computer had to be sold for sixteen hundred dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the the minimum price of what like what the case and power supply and everything had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to cost was much lower than when your base configuration is six thousand dollars even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after inflation it doesn’t come close to being a similar price range like this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not even not even close and so they they have the flexibility you know by by having this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only be a high end thing actually i want to talk about that in a minute but by having this only be a high end thing they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they gave themselves the flexibility of manufacturing to say you know what if the case ends up costing seven

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hundred dollars to manufacture instead of the pre instead of a more simple one the heater might have cost like two hundred dollars manufacturer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they have they have the room for that in the budget now that being said i did want to talk about like there there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been you know when we when we did our show mere hours after this thing was unveiled we were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know we were all like still i like the high of this and everybody was amazed by it and talking about the ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pricing the man understand but since then i’ve seen here there’s actually been a lot of criticism

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the mac pro itself being such an expensive thing and starting at six thousand dollars and everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i did want to talk about that briefly um and i said a little bit of this last week of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like people when when the original tower macpro came out in two thousand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco six back then you needed a desktop more than than you do now like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more types of pro work needed a big desktop because c cp s weren’t that fast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet there weren’t that many cores available in laptops and ssds hadn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happened yet and so the difference between a desktop and a laptop was significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco greater in many common tasks that many people do not just like the highest end of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high end use cases like you know video encoding which is always the example right like video editors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and people doing like super big datasets like three d modeling or scientific research computing like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco huge things like that those can always justify the biggest and biggest and biggest hardware but there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole lot of more common use cases where you don’t necessarily need that and over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time the number of people or like the percentage of like types of work that need that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high ascent of high and hardware keeps going down because the hardware that is more mainstream

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s available like across all sizes and prices and everything is more and more capable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for more and more people’s actual needs than it was in two thousand and six and so like right now like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know people always say like like i need to get the greatest thing to do video editing when you started doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video editing like like when four k video first came out people were editing four k video on you know big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco towers and everything well now you can get that exact same power in a laptop and you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even necessarily need the biggest laptop like now like a thirteen inch macbook pro can edit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video just fine it might not be as fast as the fifteen but it can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do it and for most people who are creating video and editing video that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually enough anything above that is a luxury but it’s not actually that necessary for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me a as a developer my imac pro i have a ten core imac pro it’s wonderful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is in my tests faster than a four core

⏹️ ▶️ Marco macbook pro but not two and a half times faster as you’d think and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looking at the mac pro and like i don’t need the mac pro i actually honestly i’m i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having extreme scepticism about whether i even get one which i know i know you’ll make fun of me but i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the mac pro is so like stratified above everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not just in price although it is you know to be fair it is very much stratified in price but in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in who even needs this thing it’s a very small market of people who actually need this thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and people who want to have their own upgradable pcs as more of like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like a value thing or or a long term upgrade ability a maintenance thing or a hobbyist thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who want that that that really upsets them that like apple’s only solution to an upgradable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tower starts at six thousand dollars and let’s be honest that six thousand dollar configuration is kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of crappy and it’s probably going to cost more like eight or nine thousand dollars for one we’re actually going to want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that angers a lot of people and and that’s a totally valid thing to be angry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about but it’s never going to change like people have been wanting apple to make the quote x mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forever they’re never going to do it like they’re never going to make basically like the like an imax components

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a mac pro style case like that that’s never going to happen that’s not a market they want to address and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco increasingly over time there isn’t a market that exists much anymore like there’s not a lot of people who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are even buying those for manufacturers who do offer them by far most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco consumers these days buy laptops the only people who really want like an upgradable desktop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the time are either super like value conscious buyers like people who are managing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large fleets of desktop towers for office buildings or whatever else in matches they just they want the cheapest stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco possible with like service contracts from dell and everything apple doesn’t really play in that market or their gamers apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t really play in that market either or their high end workstation users like or they’re like pc hobbyist builders

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who want to build their own thing which apple doesn’t play in that market either so like there’s very few markets that apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is willing to play in and would succeed in that still need a significantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgradable desktop and while it would be wonderful i would love if they would bring back the like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sixteen hundred dollar configuration of a configurable tower that you could upgrade later that would be great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the number of people that effects is just shrinking over time radically shrinking it isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ideal to have this thing start so incredibly expensive but the reality is most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who are going to be that price conscious about it aren’t in the market for this kind of thing at all these days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they buy other things they buy laptops they buy imac or they buy pcs and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think it’s fine it’s not great but it’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ John the sub two thousand mac pro was very close to being an ex mac because it was cheap it had all the expansion

⏹️ ▶️ John you want the only thing stopping it from being an ex mac was it was so darn big like an x mac

⏹️ ▶️ John like why do i need all this space there’s only go on cp you like it’s just it’s just a waste it’s this huge talking tower

⏹️ ▶️ John but it was close um and the i think as you mentioned the main market

⏹️ ▶️ John for the kind of computer you describe as gaming pieces which is you know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not a huge market but it’s not tiny either like pre assembled you didn’t build it yourself gaming

⏹️ ▶️ John pieces they’re very expensive they’re thousands of dollars they have glowy lights in them and they’re filled with high end hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re not workstations for apple’s re entry into the quote

⏹️ ▶️ John quote pro desktop market as i said last week they have gone

⏹️ ▶️ John all the way to the extreme which i think is appropriate it would like you can do this two ways like it would

⏹️ ▶️ John be like you know again with more car analogies if a car company stops making sports cars and says we’re going to re

⏹️ ▶️ John enter the sports car after a many year absence like we decided it’s important to us to make really fast cars right

⏹️ ▶️ John they could come out with an extremely inexpensive affordable you know every person’s sports

⏹️ ▶️ John car kind of like what masa did with the miata like they kind of made their name with that it’s like it’s not a particularly

⏹️ ▶️ John fast car but it shows that they like the spirit of driving very inexpensive small sporty thing

⏹️ ▶️ John but what most car companies do is they make their halo car they make their and they make a super car they make a really

⏹️ ▶️ John high and sports car that they know most people don’t need but it shows we’re serious about high performance we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John back in the game and then they will sell a bunch of other cars below that so for the very first

⏹️ ▶️ John re entry pro desktop computer i’m glad that apple didn’t hold anything back and went

⏹️ ▶️ John for the highest of the high end high as you can possibly go doesn’t preclude them doing

⏹️ ▶️ John other things in the future but it’s clear where they were going and if you hear how apple talks about

⏹️ ▶️ John the new mac pro they don’t think they’re competing with desktop computers or

⏹️ ▶️ John gaming pcs they are competing for people who buy what what apple calls internally

⏹️ ▶️ John workstations which is a word from you know decades ago rather than you usually don’t hear bounce around that much

⏹️ ▶️ John these days but it is still a thing and even though it seems like a very small number of people

⏹️ ▶️ John the workstation market has actually been growing in recent years

⏹️ ▶️ John in a while the pc market has been shrinking the workstation market has been growing i don’t know if it’s been going terms of unit

⏹️ ▶️ John sales on terms over revenue but it is actually growing and apple used to have a significant

⏹️ ▶️ John market share in that you know the workstation market and that share has dwindled

⏹️ ▶️ John and almost disappeared over the last decade or so so their re entry into the space is we want to reclaim

⏹️ ▶️ John the workstation spec we want those people who are currently buying eight thousand dollar

⏹️ ▶️ John h p computers right those are the people we want to sell to so our six thousand dollar

⏹️ ▶️ John entry price mac pro is actually coming in under a lot of the competition the competition is not a gaming

⏹️ ▶️ John pc the competition is not i built a pc myself the competition is not shuttle pc it is

⏹️ ▶️ John eight thousand dollars hp workstations can apple make your

⏹️ ▶️ John point of marco can they sell a computer in this case with this power supply and this number of slots

⏹️ ▶️ John for less than six thousand dollars yes but probably not that much less and

⏹️ ▶️ John honestly as i think i tried to emphasize last week in this grand scheme of things

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the mac pro that is crippling ly expensive it’s expensive but

⏹️ ▶️ John not out of bounds what is crippling expensive is that the monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is is the same

⏹️ ▶️ John amount right so lots of people playing oh the mac pro is so expensive if the mac pro was

⏹️ ▶️ John six thousand dollars in change for your you know set or seven thousand dollars plus a one thousand dollar monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John we wouldn’t be having the same conversation we’d be having the conversation that we usually have which is like look what you can do

⏹️ ▶️ John in the configurator i can make the mac pro a hundred thousand dollars by adding a terrier right and half round haha isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John that funny but no one thinks like that means the mac pro is like over just don’t configure it that

⏹️ ▶️ John way it’s ridiculous right it has that capacity which is great but i’ll spend like if i think of how much i

⏹️ ▶️ John spent total on my macpro system when i sit in front of no it was probably you know

⏹️ ▶️ John inflation adjusted around six or seven thousand dollars for the monitor and the pc that’s about

⏹️ ▶️ John what my imac pro cost yeah so i don’t think the mac pro itself is out of

⏹️ ▶️ John bounds the monitor is and we’ll talk about that more i’m sure for different reasons but the mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ John itself i think is it’s coming at the high end for sure but i feel like they can actually

⏹️ ▶️ John if they decide to go down market and not you know and address anything other than the workstation

⏹️ ▶️ John market they could there is as i said last week there is that space there if they ever will i don’t know but like

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re wondering why does apple even make a machine like this the workstation market is a good place to be selling

⏹️ ▶️ John computers apple used to sell much more computers there than it does now for obvious reasons

⏹️ ▶️ John see all the previous mac pro years without a change they want that market back it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a good market to be in and so they’re in it

Pro Display XDR

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let’s talk about that monitor for a minute i think the i think you’re right the monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really hurt the optics and the pricing discussion of this announcement because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while everyone has been quick to you know get the nice bullet points from p

⏹️ ▶️ Marco r about how this is much better than other reference monitors in this class and much cheaper than these forty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thousand dollar monitors that suck that’s all true but that doesn’t help a conference of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five thousand developers and thousands more watching at home feel like this is within their reach anymore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and because developers don’t need all the stuff this monitor provides and and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having this be an option that you can buy is one thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i think the bigger problem is that this is basically the only option for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good monitor that is currently still for sale that has the right like written a density

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a mac that is anywhere like there’s there’s almost no other options the l g five k

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is discontinued dell discontinued their pretty similar monitor like a year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago as far as i can tell i don’t think there’s any left on the market like i don’t think you can buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a twenty seven inch five k monitor from anybody right now except

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the few remaining lgs that are still like in stock in various places before they all sell out but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i don’t think anyone is currently producing five k twenty seven inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco monitors you can get like a four k twenty seven inch which is the wrong density for for retina

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use as a mac you can get five k like thirty three inch which is also the wrong density

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no one’s making this as far as i can tell or at least there are very few if anyone is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so by releasing the mac pro and having the only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco monitor from apple b be a six thousand dollar monitor like the monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really hurts the story badly because then we’re all saying like well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they made the computer we finally want it’s more money than we wanted to spend and also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the only monitor choice that’s any good is six

⏹️ ▶️ John thousand dollars the monitor is many times more than we the macpro

⏹️ ▶️ John was like you know a small percentage more than maybe we wanted to pay but the monitor is is many times

⏹️ ▶️ John more than we would expect it like two or three times the price we would have expected because if you’re not in the market

⏹️ ▶️ John for a reference monitor why would you you know why would you be considering the features

⏹️ ▶️ John that it offers and like when when apple said back at the mac round table like we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to make a mac two years ago we’re going to make a macpro am and we’re going to make a monitor for it you know

⏹️ ▶️ John i had that whole big rant about back on the show when they said they were not going to make monitors anymore

⏹️ ▶️ John about how i how i wanted to have an apple monitor mostly just because i knew it would be high quality

⏹️ ▶️ John and calibrated well and it would the case would match the system and it would look nice and that’s an

⏹️ ▶️ John important part of my computing that’s why part of the reason why i buy max i like that they look nice i like that

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole thing matches but this new monitor is much more in line with the

⏹️ ▶️ John apple philosophy that we don’t enter a market unless we can make a significant contribution how do you make a significant contribution

⏹️ ▶️ John to monitors well our pro workflows often have to involve the use of a reference monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re incredibly expensive and you can only have a few of them in the studio so most of the people working

⏹️ ▶️ John on the video pipeline don’t get to see their stuff the way it’s actually going to look the way we can make a significant

⏹️ ▶️ John contribution to the market to sort of make a dent is we can offer a reference monitor for much less money that will

⏹️ ▶️ John also be an amazing all round display and that’s exactly what they did but they aren’t they weren’t on the

⏹️ ▶️ John same page as me it seems of the idea of like another thing we can do is just offer you a very nice

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor and imaging case which is essentially what they do with the imac they offer you a very nice monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John in the five gay imac and the imac pro in a nice case that also happens to have the computer in it and unfortunately

⏹️ ▶️ John they removed the ability to use an imac as an external monitor a long time ago i bet people would

⏹️ ▶️ John be considering that because honestly it’s way cheaper to get an entire five cam i can just use it as a monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John than it is to buy the the protest play xd r but alas that’s not even an option until someone

⏹️ ▶️ John figures out how to hack a ribbon cable into the tico or something and snake it out one of the vents or

⏹️ ▶️ John something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like because like right now they sell the imac panel with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a free computer behind it for eighteen hundred dollars like the cheapest twenty seven inch five k imac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has the same panel as all the rest of them it’s eighteen hundred dollars they could release that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a monitor with almost the same enclosure which is like a thunderbolt three input

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and change almost nothing about it take out the free computer and they could literally charge the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact same price they could literally charge eighteen hundred dollars and we would buy it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because like the lg was thirteen hundred dollars and it was you know a crappy enclosure and everything like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they could really just like make the apple version of that g which is basically an imac with the computer and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like that i think would have really improved the objects of this story

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because right now what what they have shown is here’s a mac pro that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s more expensive than you want here’s the only display that’s any good on the market that will go with it that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significantly more expensive than what you expected and we made it for people who aren’t you like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you are a professional video editor or colorist or you know like one of the relatively

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few industries that actually would use those reference monitors before that’s great news for you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for everybody else that’s a hard pill to swallow for every other kind of pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that every other type of user who wants to buy a high end desktop or a high end workstation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by or have a macbook pro and connected to an external monitor which is very common

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all those other kinds of users apple has offered no solution really or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or no solution anybody wants or likes this is this is one of the reasons why i’m having serious doubts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether i’m going to buy a mac pro yet because if honest with myself the imac pro is the better solution

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for me overall i could spend what would probably be i don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sixteen thousand dollars on a mac pro and pro display x

⏹️ ▶️ Marco t r set up that would be significantly better than many pro but that’s sixteen thousand dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for mostly like you know a good chunk of that cost would be for the benefits

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this monitor that i will never use that i would rather not buy if i don’t have to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i don’t want a monitor that is six thousand dollars and has fans in it that can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go to brightness that i will never set it to that has accurate color

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for applications i would never do with it i don’t need all that i want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the empty imac case like that’s what i want like that i want that to be my monitor although you

⏹️ ▶️ John like it to be six k which may be the next imac will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and sure and yet cause you know what when i when i sat down on a mac coming back from sin your computer looked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old my twenty seven mac looked small but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reality is it didn’t look six thousand dollars that’s for sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i just i don’t i’m going to have a really hard time justifying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this and i think most developers would have a really hard time justifying this because of the monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco situation and so what i’m hoping will happen i’m hoping that there will be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pro display without the xdr after it just a pro display it would probably be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the imax five k panel it probably wouldn’t be six k yet maybe down the road in probably not yet so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m hoping that maybe this winter when they may be released at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sixteen inch maybe they release it along with the pro display that’s a five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco k extra display for like you know somewhere between fifteen hundred and two grand i hope that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens it it seems unlikely honest if i’m honest with myself that seems like maybe the down the road

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing if ever but right now apple is depending on this market to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exist that no longer exists no one is making these displays anymore even their partner

⏹️ ▶️ Marco l g stop making theirs and even it was pretty mediocre so it is one of it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco another one of these situations where like the whole reason that apple had to make a monitor at all it’s because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no one was making good ones i think this is one of those times where they have to there is this giant hole

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the market where tons of their customers depend on external monitors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the time for their macbook pros for their mac pros or for their mac minis for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter like or their ipads like the ipad has excellent monitor support what monitors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you switch plug into it honest question like what are you supposed to mention that there is so few monitors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that even work with it so like i think apple needs to make this as simple as that the only question that i think is when

⏹️ ▶️ John i think in general people are probably less precious about the monitors than we are i mean like i work in an office filled

⏹️ ▶️ John with monitors none of which except for mine are apple monitors right ah people just

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t care that much like it and it’s it’s what i thought of like when we were in the big mac program

⏹️ ▶️ John dazzled by all the amazing things i wasn’t thinking about this but once i had left i realized that one of the demos was

⏹️ ▶️ John this amazing hundred thousand dollar audio board filled with cool buttons

⏹️ ▶️ John and knobs and sliders and this person demonstrating like the score to a movie on a

⏹️ ▶️ John mac pro that was doing this amazing thing that used to take multiple computers to be able to process all the sound

⏹️ ▶️ John for but now this one can hold six of these h d x cards and it was this amazing demo and only

⏹️ ▶️ John after leaving did i realize why is an audio editor nita reference monitor and right

⏹️ ▶️ John so you can see you can see those logic tracks in exactly the color they’re intended to be shown

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John matter it absolutely doesn’t matter maybe they want a big monitor to see lots of tracks but i’m not even sure retina

⏹️ ▶️ John matters depending on how good your eyes are and how dim the room is how far you’re sitting away from it maybe one of those

⏹️ ▶️ John four k monitors that’s too big or the five k thirty k three inch would be better for audio editors for the

⏹️ ▶️ John purpose they have like i just don’t think people are that precious about monitors i am obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John and there is a market for it and i think apple absolutely should make one for the same reason they make all sorts of

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff white does apple make a keyboard and a mouse plenty people make keyboard and mouse why does apple make one they could

⏹️ ▶️ John just say you buy your own keyboard and mouse and attitude there’s plenty of options they would partner with somebody l g

⏹️ ▶️ John makes a great you know keyboard and mouse like this is the equivalent right what apple chooses to make and doesn’t choose to make

⏹️ ▶️ John is baffling to me at this point because they absolutely need to make a non reference

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor monitor for their computers i don’t i don’t understand why they’re not doing it it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it could just be a timing thing again right now the narrative of coming at the very high end and let

⏹️ ▶️ John it stew it’s not like you can even buy this computer that we’re talking about it’s going to come out in the fall sometime

⏹️ ▶️ John so before you can even buy this computer they may release

⏹️ ▶️ John a monitor that you know a normal monitor congo normal monitor but maybe not we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John see one more one more time before we leave the maker for

⏹️ ▶️ John this week why why does the stain as a thousand dollars my

⏹️ ▶️ John goodness ah there are lots of angles to this but one i think marco did you tell me about this

⏹️ ▶️ John the the rotation thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ah yes like the way it rotates is like i mean first of all this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t say a thousand dollars to me but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John no but just

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s an interesting tidbit that you might not know about if you weren’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there so it does it does the rotation but also like if you ever had a month of really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big monitor that rotates like some of the big deals and stuff they they will often have a problem where if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you rotate them in the wrong way or at the wrong angle they will crash their corner into the desk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and so with a monitor this big that is a concern so apple has engineered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the stand such that it will not rotate unless the monitor is in its furthest up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco position and during rotation it locks itself there but you can’t begin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a rotation that you can’t complete so that’s the cost a thousand dollars

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a

⏹️ ▶️ John on mechanical stuff that’s inside that little arm that you know that this is entirely a mechanical

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that makes it happen so it’s pretty neat i’m sure it’s really cool in practice but the other

⏹️ ▶️ John other people pondering the thousand dollar monitor stand um if you’re in the market

⏹️ ▶️ John through describing the market that buys workstations the market that does professional

⏹️ ▶️ John video editing or just that it buys a forty thousand dollar reference

⏹️ ▶️ John monitors that market is weird i’m not entirely sure why it’s weird i’m not entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John sure how the supply and demand works and how the economics work but the fact is

⏹️ ▶️ John this monitor looks different than you would expect and i got lots of examples from people who are in that market to say

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s what stuff costs in that market one of the best ones i saw was so like

⏹️ ▶️ John got lots of these companies that sell you things sell you these modular systems and it’s kind of like a

⏹️ ▶️ John porter with the with the options on their car you can just buy the thing but then you’re going to spend so much money on options right so

⏹️ ▶️ John i think this is like the red camera company where you like you buy the brain of your camera which is like as much as a

⏹️ ▶️ John car and it’s just as boxes does nothing then you have to buy the thing that like actually let’s light into it and then you have to

⏹️ ▶️ John buy the lenses for it and then you have to buy the thing that records stuff and it’s like it’s like build your own camera in each part

⏹️ ▶️ John costs ten grand right um they also sell a handle

⏹️ ▶️ John for their camera which is a metal thing that goes in your hand it’s like maybe six inches long

⏹️ ▶️ John and like it bends down like an l shape and connects to the camera so you can hold it and that handle i think was

⏹️ ▶️ John like five hundred dollars and and that handle

⏹️ ▶️ John has way fewer parts no mechanisms whatsoever less raw materials

⏹️ ▶️ John than this stand but if you’re in the kind and i mentioned the pelican cases and the show less if you’re in this

⏹️ ▶️ John market buying an inert metal handle handle for your billion

⏹️ ▶️ John dollar camera for five hundred dollars is like that’s just how much the handle costs i’m sure it’s a good

⏹️ ▶️ John handle i’m sure this is a good stand why does the stand cost a thousand dollars why is the handle

⏹️ ▶️ John five hundred dollars like apparently it’s what the market will bear in this particular

⏹️ ▶️ John market if you are not in this market the prices seem ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ John but if you are in the market they don’t seem ridiculous like tons of stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John in this market you look at it and you’re like guess how much this costs and you would never guess because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not pro gear or whatever not that this justifies or explains it but

⏹️ ▶️ John it does sort of make the pricing of that stuff makes sense

⏹️ ▶️ John all that said i think apple knows that their audience is not is not familiar with that market

⏹️ ▶️ John for the most part and and check this after coming back from the show

⏹️ ▶️ John because it seemed quick when i was in the room if you watch the w c keynote presentation video

⏹️ ▶️ John the nine hundred ninety nine dollars price for the stand is on screen in

⏹️ ▶️ John the video for fifty six frames which is about one

⏹️ ▶️ John point nine seconds they pressed the button and an animates on to the slide and then they

⏹️ ▶️ John pressed the button less than two seconds later to get it off of the slide so

⏹️ ▶️ John they were not dwelling on that so regardless of what market it fits into and how

⏹️ ▶️ John it is makes perfect sense in a market with five hundred dollar handles for your twenty thousand dollar camera thing

⏹️ ▶️ John apple knows that it is a shocking price for most developers and that’s what the room

⏹️ ▶️ John was filled with so i think apple understands that there is a gap here i really just hope they fill it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what was on what took longer for them to go through the ninety nine slide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco price or when tim cook said the apple watch edition was going to start at fifteen thousand dollars was it on a slide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think it was just verbal yes is tough to say with timings and that because obviously you say it and it’s out of your mouth

⏹️ ▶️ John when you move on i guess maybe the time between he says it and when he says the next thing i don’t but yeah i mean

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s still less expensive than a fully operational red camera but you know it’s not made

⏹️ ▶️ John of it’s made of gold or was at one time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by ero never think about wifi again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the single router model just doesn’t work anymore it’s so easy to just get gaps in your coverage

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the distributed wi fi system offices have done this for years but usually they were very complex

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and expensive ero gives you an enterprise grade multi point wi fi system in your home

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in just a few minutes it’s all set up by there nice easy to use app and it walks you through each step

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quickly easily and painlessly era also lets you manage everything right from the app in the palm

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of your hand you can see the devices that are connected you can set up a guest network you can see your speed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s super easy to use easiest wife i set up i’ve ever seen and this is really state

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the art hardware making a multipoint mesh network that just blankets your entire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco house in amazing fast coverage they also have amazing support if you need it although honestly i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t think you will because it’s super easy to use and they also now offer euro plus this was designed

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco block them without slowing anything down you can do content blocking selectively so you can for example

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say on my kids devices i don’t want them to look at violent illegal or adult content

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they also have built in ad blocking with aero plus to get rid of annoying ads and pop ups on all of your

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco package with aero base unit two beacons and one year of euro plus thank you so much to ero

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for sponsoring our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey back everybody you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it

⏹️ ▶️ John turns out you’re excited about your new mac pro case you’re getting excited to buy one now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah totally you know it’s funny for a fleeting moment before we knew anything about it i was like you know what i might be able to use

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a macro it sounds nice maybe i’ll keep it for a long time and may not be so but you should buy one because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco care about monitors

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i wouldn’t say i don’t care about monitors i’m just not nearly as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco picky if you don’t care

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we do so i think you know i have this twenty fifteen i think it’s a late twenty fifteen imac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey five k imac that i bought yesterday’s late twenty fifteen that i bought in early early early twenty sixteen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so far i mean now that it’s not crashing periodically for fuzzies it’s mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good and i don’t often long for more speed you know it’s not often that i’m like oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey god this thing is so slow and so i’ve been thinking about you know i think i’m coming up on time to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey replace both my computers truth be told which is going to be very expensive but i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know what i would do like if i was going to pull the trigger today i guess i would get an imac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pro or maybe just even a brand new well loaded imac

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to get an imac pro you have to and not because of the performance just for the quiet

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s it until they fix the cooling system on the regular imac imac pro is all you’re allowed to get

⏹️ ▶️ John sara

⏹️ ▶️ Casey casey

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay i i think the imac pro remains overall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the best computer for developers to get yeah like it’s simple as that like the mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be better in some ways but it would also be worse in some ways like you know and all i want actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of nice like if you get a mac pro no matter what monitor you pair with it like the the monitor conversation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a moment you get a mac pro it’s a much larger thing to have in your office in addition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to it starting out very expensive like so you’re going to pay more it’s not going to come with the money and you have to figure that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on your own it’s significantly larger than an i ma pro it actually has fewer ports than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an imac pro by default and if you look at a bunch of jeep yes you can get more ports but you know starting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out it’s going to have fewer ah it’s going to have probably more expensive expansion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because you’re starting out with the imac pro you’re starting out from a base level it’s much higher configured than the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco base level of the mac pro the imac pro is also going to include a camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a microphone better speakers that are built in like the mac pro has built in speaker but it’s a crappy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one so like the improve you quite a lot and you have all the ports for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available right on your desk which is a plus animus like if you have like external things like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drive enclosures they’re harder to hide in a in a nice way with an imac but you are still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like when you have the imac like everything’s right up top like one problem i have with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with my stupid microsoft keyboard is the dongle for the keyboard can’t be too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far from the keyboard otherwise like the reception isn’t good enough and it doesn’t reliably work the imac the port’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right there it’s right it’s right around the top of the desk if the desktop is down below the desert you might have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know less convenient cable routing options less convenient port access stuff like that there’s no sd card

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slot in the desktop you got to work that in somewhere else like actually an imac is better in a lot of ways

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than a mac pro even if you ignore the monitor question which you shouldn’t and you know performance wise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is rarely a time when i am saturating the power of my ten core

⏹️ ▶️ Marco imac pro for more than a few seconds like you know developer workflows and workloads are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we need a lot of horse power but we need it in short bursts and so as you as you add cores

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you very quickly hit diminishing returns of like on my laptop i can max out all the cores for like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thirty seconds straight easy if i’m doing something something significant like a big compile or something and that’s that’s annoying you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got to wait around for that but i mean i macpro that the time that the cords

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are maxed out might be like four seconds at most and most times like one second so if i double

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my cares if i get if i got like a twenty core mac pro that’s going to go from like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two seconds to one second that’s significantly less severe improvement

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to my life than than you know going from a laptop to an imac prose and so for most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco developers like your work flows going to fall somewhere in that range where like the imac pro is going to be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the upper end of what you actually can really make use of a on a regular basis and it’s more than what most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need actually and it’s really really nice you know long term it’s like it isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to last as long as a mac pro you know even if it doesn’t last john’s ten years and even if the armed transition doesn’t happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as soon as we think it will and you won’t want to get rid of it you know a mac pro can still be serviced more easily it can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still like you’re not tying it to the screen you’re using so like if the screen dies in four years like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of warranty it’s not going to kill the value of a mac pro stuff like that there are still reasons that the mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wins but there’s a lot fewer than these days than they used to be because the imac pro is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i mean i don’t know i’m probably not going to pull the trigger on any new computer any any time soon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re going to want to set that laptop on fire when you start using swifty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eye probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shift your eyes incredibly demanding to generate those live previews

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my thirteen inch felt incredibly inadequate i can’t even imagine what how how it is on your ancient twelve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch it’s going to melt you’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey melt

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think truth be told i am in more pressing need of a laptop than a desktop is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just that the desktop is older and with regard to the laptop you know sitting here today i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know if i would get an air or more likely a thirteen inch pro which is very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey light and very portable but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’ll tell you mine and when the sixteen inch comes out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you go yeah the thirteen inch pro is very light and but very portable but it is and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’ve not held a macbook the adorable you will doubt me but the adorable is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey considerably lighter and more poor portable than than the thirteen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pro oh you’re right it’s fifty percent lighter or whatever thirty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John percent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah yeah it’s it’s two pounds versus three and you know it’s significantly smaller no question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the twelve inch is significantly more portable but it’s a question like whether it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can do the working is due or not without you wanting to set it on fire or it literally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey melting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and i think you’re going to have a hard time with modern swift development

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as swift continues to get even more aggressive with like all the stuff it’s doing in the background is as you could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s you’re going to have a hard time continuing to get a lot of use out of that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey computer agreed so don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco know again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you might literally kill it it has no fan and you’re matching out at you for a long time because it’s real

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slow so it takes a while to do all these things and i see you so you’re like you’re matching out a family see you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is just barely fanless for a very long time to have it do constant work in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the background like that that’s not going to be good for it you’re going to kill

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it right which is why i think the plan is let’s wait until the sixteen comes out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and not to say that i want a sixteen i want something considerably smaller and lighter but if there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a commensurate refresh for anything else which i’m not saying there will be but if there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is then i might just pull the trigger then if there’s not then i’ll probably just keep limping along until

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there is a refresh of the like either the macbook adorable or the you know thirteen with you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know the phantom new keyboard or what have you we shall see anyway

#askatp: Macro lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the sat so let’s begin with colton bellville who writes i want to rent a macro lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a camping trip which at the rate we answer ask t p probably already happened but hey that’s all right what focal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey length is the best and what else should i take into consideration choosing a lens i have an icon and would like to spend around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dollars i’ve been in this world not recently so my information might be out of date but there are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some general things to keep in my with marlins first of all for choosing a focal length i recommend

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a there’s this wonderful sight i used to visit all the time when doing when looking at lenses to buy it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called the digital picture and it’s a guy who reviews lenses really well mostly in the canyon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system so it’s not i don’t think he’s going to have a lot of nikon specific info but there’s this article will put the link in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shooter where he there you can see direct comparisons for macro lenses like how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the different focal lens how the different focal lines look for macro lens and the various trade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco offs there um the biggest thing to keep in mind with mackerel lenses are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need way more light and way more like studying assistance than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you think you will for any other kind of photography because as you get closer like as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the modification gets bigger on of macro lines you you just need a ton of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco light to to get enough light to the sensor and also you need a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need to like step down the aperture way down till like you know f eight or f sixteen like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really far down because the field of view is so incredibly shallow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you’re at such short distances that’s why most macro pictures you see from people you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like from hobbyists like me who like rent a macro lens most pictures you see have like a sliver of something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in focus and not really the whole subject is actually in focus so things like image stabilization

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are incredibly helpful any kind of like you know if you if you’re choosing a camera for this purpose

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the biggest most sensitive sensor you can find because you’re going to have to crank the eye so way up because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you just need to capture so much light with such a narrow aperture to get anything to be sharp

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the marlins and that’s also why frequent accessories for arenas are things like ring lights and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of like accessory lighting to help you get a lot of light very close to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens i will help you a lot here as for specific rentals i don’t know the nikon system enough to actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say for sure but a macro lens is a really fun you know if you can get past that thing so i would definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say if you can get anything image stabilized get an image stabilized and make that more important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the focal length also like the maximum aperture you know like whether it’s like f two point e

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or f two point o or whatever doesn’t matter so much because you’re not going to be using it wide open for actual macro work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is one other thing to consider though and that is that most macro lenses tend to be between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sixty and a hundred and hundred and eight millimeters in focal length if you intend to use it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the same lens for anything else either during the rental or first and alone purchase i love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prime lenses that are around a hundred and thirty five millimeters and and so like a hundred million

⏹️ ▶️ Marco macro lens is kind of close to that a one thirty five prime shoots amazing portrait

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos it is like the the one thirty five cannon prime is by far our favorite lens for like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for people shots and so you can actually use a macro lens like dual purpose as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a portraiture lens if you want to so if you if you think you might want to do that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something in the hundred millimetre range is better than something like in the sixty millimeter range for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that purpose a hundred millimeter ish primes are just so great for portraits and so a macro can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally serve that function usually not quite as narrow aperture as as like one thirty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five prime like you know i think macros tend to start at two point eight usually whereas i one thirty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five prime you can get f two point oh usually which those are awesome but for macro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mentally i just keep that in mind you want image stabilization i would go for around a hundred millimeters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it matters less than you think and and get a lot of light

#askatp: Old-tech leakage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey james andrews writes i’ve a bunch of old commodore computers and by bunch i mean all in my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey loft slash attic which are all at risk of battering capacitor leak dud age i’ve removed batteries on most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what are you doing john with your old machines is this a concern

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s absolutely concern what i have done with my machines is almost nothing i remove the

⏹️ ▶️ John alkaline batteries from the mac that had them if you are have you bought an original

⏹️ ▶️ John mac and many mini max after that they actually have had

⏹️ ▶️ John removable i guess it’s not minimax but some max after that they had a removable double

⏹️ ▶️ John a battery to run the clock for you which is nice in that you can actually remove

⏹️ ▶️ John it because if you don’t remove it on if you have a lot of electronics laying around maybe you already noticed

⏹️ ▶️ John if you leave an alkaline battery in a device it eventually will

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not sure what’s happening is it outgassing is it leaking liquid that then dries and leaves it anyway you’ll open

⏹️ ▶️ John it up and you’ll find a bunch of white fuzzy deposits all over everything and it’s gross and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a pain to clean and it’s really impossible to get back to like new condition when you do that so do not leave

⏹️ ▶️ John batteries in your devices but that’s sad and as james points out batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John are the least of your concerns right capacitors capacitors are going

⏹️ ▶️ John to go bad and bloat and explode into destroyer stuff i’m sure probably more than half of

⏹️ ▶️ John the computer hardware in my attic has blown burst bloated capacitors

⏹️ ▶️ John what did i do about that absolutely nothing honestly i don’t know if there’s anything you can do other than

⏹️ ▶️ John checking them all periodically and desoldering the ones that look like they’re going bad and replacing them with the equivalent

⏹️ ▶️ John things but that’s not my cup of tea on the other hand the last time i took up my ass thirty

⏹️ ▶️ John which was only you know a handful of years ago it’s still booted so you might get lucky

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like the capacitor lottery will you have one then just considered an attic going from

⏹️ ▶️ John freezing temperatures to blasting heat year after year and still work maybe or maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John all your stuff will be totally destroyed i don’t have any good advice how to prevent it but do definitely take out any batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John that can be removed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all righty and then finally

#askatp: Tesla Autopilot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey christian rights in the light of another and this is a few weeks old now and in the light of another fatality

⏹️ ▶️ Casey involving tesla’s autopilot does marco use autopilot mode in his tea or not christian

⏹️ ▶️ Casey disclaims that they are not trying to be inflammatory just curious about what your experiences are with autopilot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i do still use autopilot but i treat it the way is think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only responsible way you can treat it and that is as as basically cruise control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is a nice fancy cruise control it is a cruise control that helps keep you in the lane as well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s all it is it is not a substitute for paying any attention it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is occasion i will occasionally take both hands off the wheel for a second if i have to i open a bottle of water it’s you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s nice to have the option to like quickly take both hands off and then put you in then put it back on like that’s cool for the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco part like it’s cruise control so i’m still looking at the road my hands are still on the wheel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m still paying attention it’s just a convenience you know in the same way cruise control is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s that’s all i think it will be for a long time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is still kind of dumb like you know they’re always there constantly talking about like you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an luck’s always bragging about how close they are for full self driving they even sell a full self driving option for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a future software update for i think five thousand dollars at the time of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John purchase

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i think anybody who buys that as a fool honestly because i don’t think they’re anywhere near it a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco regular auto pilot which is just fancy cruise control is still kind of dumb sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it still makes the wrong choice sometimes like where it’ll like follow the wrong lane markings or it’ll just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally give up in rain it’s like you know it rains in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco real world a lot i don’t know like the system is a very nice cruise control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system as long as that’s all you use it for then that’s all you depend on it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for then i think you’re being normal and safe but when people start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing stupid things like watching movies while their cars or a pilot are like leaving the front seat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is i know it sounds crazy people have done this my word that’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s literally like that suicide to try to do that that not only could you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear yourself you can kill someone else on the road and and so that like people who do that kind of stuff that that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco horrendous and and reprehensible and incredibly dangerous but if you just treat it as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the fancy cruise control that it really is that’s just as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco safe slash dangerous as regular cruise control in my opinion

⏹️ ▶️ John so drivers definitely have some responsibility but i think car makers and it’s not just tesla many car

⏹️ ▶️ John makers have very similar abilities like basically that it will do automated crew snow falling distance and also lane

⏹️ ▶️ John keeping that’s essentially what tesla has right that’s a hundred percent what it is right and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not you know self driving and there can be arguments that house advertised but the bottom line is that once they added

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially land keeping basically steering for you behaving the way

⏹️ ▶️ John marco described is the correct move but i think it’s also a

⏹️ ▶️ John not responsible for car makers to sell products like that because human nature

⏹️ ▶️ John being what it is people will realize that the car steers for you like it it’s a selling point of

⏹️ ▶️ John the car the salesman will probably tell you if not the owner’s manual tell you if not you’ll notice when you

⏹️ ▶️ John engage it once people are aware that they don’t have to steer all the

⏹️ ▶️ John time it is now a battle between their little monkey brain

⏹️ ▶️ John and all the devices the car manufacturer has added to try to make sure they’re paying attention it beeps

⏹️ ▶️ John if you take your hands on the steering heel it notices if your eyeline has gone a certain way if your head nods and gives you

⏹️ ▶️ John an electric shock there’s all sorts of things to try to keep you paying attention and those things have existed before

⏹️ ▶️ John you know autopilot type things as well like but human nature is that like

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t have to be you know the car is basically steering for me and if you’re if you’re in an environment

⏹️ ▶️ John where you’ve been on the highway for a long time and the car’s been steering fully for you the whole time

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s human nature for your attention to drift like asking any human being to

⏹️ ▶️ John be one hundred per cent vigilant while being asked to do nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John that is incompatible with humans there is no amount of discipline like monk like discipline

⏹️ ▶️ John that you can train yourself to say i am going to be vigilant so that at a moment’s

⏹️ ▶️ John notice i can take over driving for six hours during my six hours i will never be asked

⏹️ ▶️ John to do this but i will be ever vigilant right and that’s what these cars are setting people up

⏹️ ▶️ John for to be putting you in a situation where you’re set up to fail there is nothing you can do there

⏹️ ▶️ John is no amount of discipline that you can do that will help you there the only thing you can do is

⏹️ ▶️ John convince yourself that the car doesn’t really steer from me that it’s basel to fancy cruise control and

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m still driving the car for the most part if you do that and if you can convince yourself of that and actually behave

⏹️ ▶️ John in that way then you can use it safely but i feel like we are in a very uncomfortable point here where

⏹️ ▶️ John cars demand constant vigilance but

⏹️ ▶️ John do not require it at all like at all times like you need to be ready to leap into

⏹️ ▶️ John that mode instantly but most of the time you don’t need to and that’s that’s the formula for badness

⏹️ ▶️ John so i really hope we leave this phase in one direction or another as soon as possible

⏹️ ▶️ John i really don’t want a car that has this future um you could have said the same thing about cruising troll but i feel like the

⏹️ ▶️ John steering is the final struggles basically if you don’t have a car that steers for you and you stop paying attention

⏹️ ▶️ John to the road even for a few seconds and the road curves you know like you learn like

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to pay attention you just have to you can glance away for a second right and if you’re on a straight highway you can maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John glance away for more than a second but you basically have to steer once that’s taken away what are

⏹️ ▶️ John you even doing what you’re doing is you’re like any second any second any second

⏹️ ▶️ John i might need to i need to drive and you can’t you can’t be in that tense mode you can’t you

⏹️ ▶️ John know you’ll relax you’ll be like oh did i don’t that’s why people are leaving the seat cause they’re like i’ve been in

⏹️ ▶️ John this car for an hour and a half and i’ve done nothing i don’t even need to be in the sea until they go on the back and take

⏹️ ▶️ John a nap and then we’ll die and that’s obviously that’s their fault for being done but it’s also the car maker’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fault for making a car that will lead people through you know the foibles

⏹️ ▶️ John of human nature into that type of scenario please see the long ago episode where i

⏹️ ▶️ John predicted that self driving cars would be much more difficult to make than people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thought all right thanks for response this week ero away and linode and we will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco talk to you next week

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now the show is over they didn’t even mean to begin because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental but it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john didn’t do any research marco and case wouldn’t let him because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accident it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at f m and if you’re into twitter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could follow them ca s e y l

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i assess to that’s k c s m a r c a r m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ant marco arman s i r a c

⏹️ ▶️ John u s siracusa is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental

Birthday math

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right anything else going on how’s your birthday yesterday happy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco birthday thank you all good good talk it was funny i saw i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually like in my head like so i just turned thirty seven thirty seven

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but it’s funny like in my old i’m thirty seven in my head i actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had been doing the math wrong for like most of the last year i thought i already was thirty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seven and so actually i feel i kind of got this one for free

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s one way of

⏹️ ▶️ John looking at it i forgot i was forty four and you you pondering about your age had reminded me to

⏹️ ▶️ John do the math so now i’m forty four

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again now i’m forty

⏹️ ▶️ John four do you think you were forty three oh i’m sorry forty three for all this year and all of a sudden i know that i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not oh i’m sorry i’m sure it’ll get me the other direction sometime soon but for now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i feel like i kind of like lived for six months for free

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t think that’s how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time works i’m not sure that’s how it works