Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

300: First of All, It's Easy

Our 300th Episode Spectacular!

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Via Skype 🚽👍
  2. 300th Episode Spectacular!
  3. Sponsor: Change the Terms
  4. MacBook Air impressions
  5. ARM Mac Pro?
  6. Sponsor: Fracture
  7. More iPad Pro impressions
  8. Sponsor: Linode (code atp2018)
  9. MacBook Air reprise
  10. Ending theme
  11. Marco’s a YouTuber now 🖼️

Via Skype 🚽👍

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casey has just seen the modern version of Skype for the first time like the one that the rest of us have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been seeing for Like six months or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is it is hilariously bad just truly hilariously bad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I Can’t make there’s a the entire window is one humongous pane of blue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That shows Marco’s floating head until I mouse over it and then I get a whole bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What the cool designer kids called fabs. Are you familiar with this trend Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, not like silicon manufacturing production facilities, but like something else?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, floating action buttons, Marco. It’s the new cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. Oh, God. So when I hover, I get all these round things? That’s what these are? Mm-hmm. These have a name, not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just badly implemented buttons?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And guess where I heard it first starting? Google. Of course. Remember, kids,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey material design is where it’s at.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Anyway— Wait,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so why are heads in fabs that aren’t buttons— I don’t know. identical to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the buttons except they have our heads in them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it’s so this is truly heinous.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And why is John’s head floating in the middle of the screen while your head is up on the upper right next to mine?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see, you’re my floaty guy title and John is just relegated to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the corner.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also, didn’t the previous version indicate to you who was talking? Yes, that’s correct. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you were on like some big conference call with a bunch of people you didn’t know, you could tell who’s talking, which is really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey On the plus side, I can show you a red heart, which I’m doing right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yes, there’s a red heart on top of your fab. Yes, indeed. Can I put a middle finger on top of mine?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a thumbs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can only do a thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, Jelly just sent me a text message, which makes a good point. Why aren’t we trying like group FaceTime

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know, inertia. This is proven. We know this works. It’s the kind of thing that like, it’s like, why don’t you try,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, new toilets in your house? This is serving a function for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us like we just need this to work. Well, welcome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the same hell that the rest of us have been in for some time. I’m glad you were able to get to avoid it for this long. At

⏹️ ▶️ Marco least be thankful for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, the only reason I upgraded or I don’t know if this is really an upgrade, side graded, downgraded, updated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least. Yeah, updated is probably a better word. Thank you. The only reason I did is because the old Skype

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that actually made some amount of sense was pegging my CPU on my 5k

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iMac anytime it was open. And so I figured, okay, I might as well just bite this bullet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and wow do I regret it. It must have been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey third party RAM. Here we go again. Welcome to the 300th episode, everyone!

300th Episode Spectacular!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are recording our 300th episode and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are going to skip follow-up on Menonce to John for a few minutes and mention that this is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 300th episode. How have you two been able to stick with me for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this long and more importantly how have we not killed each other?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah that’s that’s kind of impressive by the way I should just claim right up front I have a cold and my voice is going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I sound worse already and I might sound worse as the 300th episode of Spotacular it goes on, we will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco find out. Anyway, so that aside, I think part of the reason why this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has worked so well for so long for us is, you know, first of all, it’s easy. We all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all three of us have no trouble talking tech. There has never been a week out of 300

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weeks that we have not had enough to talk about or that we have had trouble filling the time. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco part of it. Part of it is that all of the practical stuff, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technical stuff, the scheduling stuff, pretty much works out. The three of us are all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco within the same time zone. We all have really good, solid internet connections. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never… Seriously, no, you laugh, but when you’re doing a podcast with somebody for a long time, that kind of stuff matters,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? We never have severe technical problems. Even John’s Mac Pro has not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lost more than one recording. So all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technical stuff is good, but ultimately, we’re friends and we talk well together and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think we have good chemistry, like I don’t think it’s boasting for us to say this. And so I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we just, we like BSing with each other and you like listening. That’s all that really matters, you know? Like everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is secondary.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I completely agree. And as the chief mush

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the three of us, the chief emotional one of the three of us, self-annoying that I should add, I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just like to say that it is our tremendous pleasure, the three of us, to be able to be,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do this at all, much less be compensated for it, much less be compensated reasonably well for it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is because of all the listeners who listen to us, who spread the word about the show, who buy our t-shirts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and other merchandise, who do iTunes reviews, which we haven’t talked about in like 200 episodes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but that still I guess maybe counts. But anyway, it is because of all of you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we are able to do this and enjoy doing this. And there wouldn’t be Ask ATP without you. There really wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be ATP without you. So if you are listening to the words coming out of my mouth right now, then thank you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because it is because of all of you that we are able to do this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, there would be ATP without them. It would just be a once-a-year show of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the three of us BSing in the WBDC keynote line with each other.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which is arguably how this all started. That would

⏹️ ▶️ John be a long episode. That was a lot of reminiscing. I put the

⏹️ ▶️ John item in the list here for the episode 300, but normally don’t do anything for occasions, and I plan on not doing anything this occasion, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I figured this was a good time for me to reflect on what I always reflect on when we have anniversaries, but this time I actually

⏹️ ▶️ John looked up some information about it. And that is the fact that we have been surprisingly

⏹️ ▶️ John very, very consistent. So our first episode was released on February 7th, 2013. That

⏹️ ▶️ John was five years, nine months, and approximately eight days after you’re probably listening to this.

⏹️ ▶️ John 2,107 days ago, and I looked up our release schedule And we released that first episode, which, if you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know the origin of the show, like it’s in the song, but kind of. But it was actually

⏹️ ▶️ John was an accidental show. We were doing Neutral is Car podcast. And we talked about tech, like after the episode

⏹️ ▶️ John of Neutral was over. And those sort of neutral aftershows about tech became the first episodes

⏹️ ▶️ John of Accidental Tech Podcast. So the first episode was like 36 minutes or something ridiculous like that long. Cause it was just

⏹️ ▶️ John an after show for another podcast. So we released that. And then there was a two week gap.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then we released episode two. A two-week gap was like, I don’t know, we were just figuring out if this is a thing we’re gonna do, or like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even remember. Do any of you remember why there was a two-week gap?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the first episode was like on SoundCloud. Like, we didn’t even have a website or anything, because we didn’t think it would be a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re just like, hey, we kept the recording going after Neutral and talked about tech in a way that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe people, maybe our audience would wanna hear. Let’s just put it up somewhere and see what people think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, slow down, though, because if my recollection serves me, and I have a terrible memory, that wasn’t we that decided

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. That was 100% Marco that decided to just throw this up on SoundCloud. You probably ran it by us. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s not that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco did it in a nefarious way.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But either way, it was because of your insight that you put that up on SoundCloud.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re absolutely right about that. And I thought it was like three or four episodes before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we really realized, oh, this is what we should have been doing this whole time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this car stuff, while entertaining to the three of us, is really not our bread and butter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m pretty sure it only took until the second episode before we had outdone Neutral’s traffic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It was real quick.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but anyway, the release schedule, according to our SS feed, which may or may not reflect the actual

⏹️ ▶️ John schedule of the way things dribbled out, we have that two-week gap. But after that two-week gap between quote, unquote,

⏹️ ▶️ John episode one, which again, was very abbreviated in episode two, after that, from episode

⏹️ ▶️ John two through episode 300, we have done one episode a week for five years,

⏹️ ▶️ John nine months, and eight days.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That

⏹️ ▶️ John is

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t mean that we do them all exactly on a Wednesday because we have vacations and we arrange things. So the bottom line is,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re 52 weeks in a year and every year we’re putting out 52 episodes for five years. The

⏹️ ▶️ John only exception being that little gap when the thing was getting started with the weird episodes at the beginning, which are totally

⏹️ ▶️ John weird. Like the people who go back and listen to episode one, A, I salute you, and B, boy, it must be really weird

⏹️ ▶️ John to hear those first episodes. So that’s one of the things I’m the most proud of. And for lack of a better name,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though Marco said this is easy, our work ethic. Like, yes, it is easy, but we all have lives and

⏹️ ▶️ John other things going on. Try doing anything every single week for five years

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ John having any other kind of obligations, let alone families and kids, and in my

⏹️ ▶️ John case, another job to go to and all that other stuff. So that’s it. That’s all I wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John to mention. To give, you know, we’re already up our own butts about this whole thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Just to give ourselves a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey pat on the back

⏹️ ▶️ John about the fact that we’ve done a thing every single week for five years.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m very proud of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we cheat a little bit by like, if there’s a holiday or somebody’s traveling, we will double record one week and maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco release it a little bit later.

⏹️ ▶️ John But we’re just trying to provide a consistent product. 52 times a year, you’ll get an ATP episode.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So while we’re in the mushy butts segment, I also just wanted to point out that this, about,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know, about a year ago or something like that, this surpassed my previous longest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco job as this is now my longest job I’ve ever had. And this for five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for about, you know, five and three quarters years. Uh, previously overcast is the runner up cause

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I started overcast only a few months after we started this show. It wasn’t long yet, but I started working on it like roughly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that June. Um, so overcast started, you know, roughly, you know, June, 2013. Um, so that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about five and a half years. And then Instapaper was next longest Tumblr was actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the least long until I go all the way back to my job in Pittsburgh. That was only two years, but you know, Tumblr was a little over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four, his paper was four and a half, Overcast five and a half, and ATP about five and three quarters. So this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is my longest job I’ve ever had, and it’s going to stay that way for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a long time probably, because Overcast started after it did. So yeah, it’s pretty cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, it just occurred to me just this moment, that’s true for me too, because my longest stint

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was when I first moved to Richmond, I worked for a company for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey four and change years something like that. So I knew that this was the longest for you and that’s because, ha-ha,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco always changes his job, ha-ha-ha. But actually for me as well, it’s the same story.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It just occurred to me now. I never even realized that. Wow, that’s wild.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s got a while to go to catch up with me. I think I’m about double that in my current job.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, wow. That is a long time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It’s a lot of pearl.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a lot of pearl. All right. So when we were realizing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when we had come to the realization that we were approaching episode 300, we all kind of looked at each

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other, well, as much as you can inside a Slack chat room, but we all looked at each other and said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of, are we going to do anything? And in typical ATV fashion, the answer was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically no. But I was trying to rack my brain for something. I did something. I looked up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things. That’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I computed all of these job durations.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and my contribution to not recognizing this 300th episode

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and not making it that spectacular, is I wanted to ask you two, what is your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey favorite episode or perhaps moment that you can think of in the run? Because, and this came from me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thinking, not that I necessarily wanted to do a clip show, but it would be fun to have gotten like a handful of clips

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from years past and handed them to Marco to staple in. We are not doing that because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But- So it actually crossed my mind, like, wouldn’t it be fun to make like a clip show as a joke, really?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then I realized like, that would actually be way more work for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Because when a TV show makes a clip show,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s great because they don’t have to have all the actors come in and shoot new scenes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s way less work for them because they can just have a couple interns going through clips and pulling things together. Whereas when you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are the editor of the podcast, a clip show is actually way more work for you than it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just record a new episode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly right. So we’re not gonna do a clip show, but I ask, and I will start with Marco, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is your favorite episode or perhaps moment from the show that at least sitting here today,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe you changed your mind, but sitting here now, what was your favorite episode?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, easy, Windows of Syracuse County. Why do you say that? It was, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was, not only was it incredibly entertaining, but it revealed,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like the best kind of thing. It’s like, I don’t even remember what the rest of the episode was about. I don’t care, it’s just the after show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was revealing. Was that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the

⏹️ ▶️ John after show? I thought that was a topic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think it was the after show.

⏹️ ▶️ John We have no idea what happened in the show. There’s so many episodes to remember. I’m sure we’ll get corrections.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah. But it was just like, you know, as a listener of shows, you know, like the kind we listen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to and hopefully the kind we make, I care much more about the people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the topics. And it’s my favorite moments of podcasts are when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the people have a really funny moment with themselves, where their chemistry just works really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well together, and they uncover something crazy about another host

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or one another, and they all laugh about it. That’s not an uncommon pattern.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That happens a lot on the kind of shows that we make, the kind of unscripted shows with friends talking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think that was one of our moments when we discovered the way John

⏹️ ▶️ Marco runs his windowing on his computer and quite the extent of which that happens.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that was a moment for our show. It was my favorite as the host of the show. And I’ve heard a lot from listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it was their favorite as well. So that to me is probably my favorite moment.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, this is tricky. Like as a listener, I bet listeners to the show have different favorite episodes

⏹️ ▶️ John than we as hosts do. Trying to think of favorite episodes slash moments. One of my favorite moments,

⏹️ ▶️ John which probably does not rate for highly in listeners’ minds, is

⏹️ ▶️ John our first live show when the audience sang the song. I thought that was pretty cool. Like, a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John people don’t like our live shows and they’re definitely different than our regular shows. And if you’re not at the live show, I can kind of see where you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John coming from. It’s like, well, can I just have a regular episode and it has all this weird audience noise and the

⏹️ ▶️ John shows are shorter and like, blah, blah, blah. But if, and honestly, I don’t know how it’s like to be there, but I can tell

⏹️ ▶️ John you to be the person doing the live show and to have the audience sing your theme song, that’s really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John So for me personally, that was a really cool moment. And my honorable mention in top four

⏹️ ▶️ John fashion is, this is kind of a, in typical Marco fashion, is not actually an episode, but a category

⏹️ ▶️ John of episodes. And again, this is just strictly as a host.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so like, occasionally I’ll have, you know, just, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a typical day at work or whatever, work and family stuff, right? And at the end of

⏹️ ▶️ John my long day, I have an episode of ATP. And I know sometimes it

⏹️ ▶️ John can seem like, oh, you’ve had a full day and now you have to sit down and record.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have to keep working. There’s more stuff that you have to do, right? And then you just, right after that, you’re gonna go to bed.

⏹️ ▶️ John It can feel like a very full day, but my favorite kinds of episodes are the ones where I had a

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy day or like just a tiring day, and then we do an ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ John and by the end of the ADP, like I feel better. Like, you know, it’s not usually not that impressive of an

⏹️ ▶️ John episode, but we just had a good time. We talked about, we talked about fun things. Like it cheers me

⏹️ ▶️ John up at the end of the day. Like those are my favorite kinds of episodes for me as a host is when I just had just a grind

⏹️ ▶️ John of a normal day. And you know, maybe I’m not even looking forward to doing like, oh, I got to do a podcast for

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody. By the end of the episode, I go to bed happy. Those are my favorite kinds of episodes.

⏹️ ▶️ John The episode where like the additional quote unquote work I have to do that day actually makes the whole rest of the

⏹️ ▶️ John day better. And I have a surprising amount of those. I’m always sometimes it makes it hard to go to sleep at the end of it because I’m like happy

⏹️ ▶️ John and jazzed about whatever it is we talked about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco again.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if those are the episodes that end up being favorites of the people listening, but as the person who does the

⏹️ ▶️ John episodes, I really like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So to answer my own question, I have two honorable mentions because I also listen to top four

⏹️ ▶️ Casey honorable mention. Number one was the two minutes that just happened because now I’m all misty eyed and that’s adorable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I love you, John. But my other honorable mention actually is exactly what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John said, that when the audience sang to us, was it 2017? It was not this year. That was the WWDC 2017

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was, like on the one side, I think all three of us kind of expected it to happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but actually witnessing it happening was bananas,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was utterly bananas and extremely, extremely cool. To be in front of a thousand people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that are genuinely jazzed to see you and your two really, really good friends

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a really messed up feeling in the best possible way that I don’t know how to describe. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is a true honorable mention. But if I had to choose only one moment, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell you off the top of my head, it is the end of episode 96, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is called the windows of of Syracuse County

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco because as Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, my recollection anyway, and this was a couple years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago now, but my recollection is that I was literally crying. I was laughing so hard listening

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to John and ribbing John and just everything about it. Marco and I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going back and forth in various states of utter disbelief, utter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hilarity and like almost anger that John was defending himself with this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you have to understand that, what was, John, the episode of Hypercritical that involved Syracuse

⏹️ ▶️ Casey County? Do you remember off the top of your head? Bridges of? Okay, there you go. Right, right, right. Okay, because it was Madison County,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a knockoff on Madison County. Is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mm-hmm. And so because of that episode, Bridges of Syracuse County,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the longest time, every single – and this actually still kind of happens sometimes – and that was episode 15. Holy smokes. I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey realize it was that early in Hypercritical’s run. So anyway, so episode 15 of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hypercritical was Bridges of Syracuse County. And so every time we had somebody in the chat room, you know, suggesting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey titles for all of these ATPs, for 95 episodes, they would always come up with, you know, something of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Syracuse County titles, to the point that I coded the show bot to give a snarky

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reply about, oh, you can do better than that, anytime somebody suggested that. And at the end of episode 96,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was clear, at least to Marco and I, if I remember correctly, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had no choice but to use a Syracuse County title. And our agreement, if I recall

⏹️ ▶️ Casey correctly, Marco, was that this is the one and only time that will ever happen and it will never

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happen again for the rest of the run. And I stand by that decision because, oh my word, that episode

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is great. If you haven’t heard it, you need to go listen to it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I firmly stand by that. We made the right call that if we’re going to ever do this once, this is the time to do it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure enough, almost four years later, that was still the right call.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would also say my so in now that now that I knew that it’s okay to like recommend, you know, topics instead

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of just you know episodes. My my favorite type of diversion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the food diversion.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, I have concluded that as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is a recent trend. I don’t know if we’re all hungry because we’re on diets now or just coming up on this show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it’s it’s great because all three of us feel very strongly about food

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and cooking and how we make things and what is good. At the same time though, our taste

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in those things and our opinions of those things have fairly little overlap. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a very, very good area for us to go into and the audience seems to enjoy it quite a bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as well. So it isn’t just us who like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it. Paul

⏹️ ▶️ John Matzkoff They’re on diets too.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I had someone, a young person,

⏹️ ▶️ John I had a young person at work ask me today what Sicilian pizza was, if you want to know what kind of day I had.

⏹️ ▶️ John I pulled up a picture on the internet of my favorite pizza the entire world, which happens to be Sicilian. I said, it’s this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna bite. Tell, tell me why Sicilian is not just deep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dish, man. Because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not nothing like deep dish. What are you talking about? Well, first of all, it’s square. No, it’s not. That’s not the major difference.

⏹️ ▶️ John The major difference is not a giant, weird cornmeal bucket filled with sauce

⏹️ ▶️ John and cheese. Like it’s, I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not even,

⏹️ ▶️ John have you had deep dish pizza and have you had Sicilian? They’re not same thing. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re not at all the same.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I see. I don’t think I’ve had deep dish at least not like proper Chicago deep dish. I have had Sicilian a lot though

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I like it but uh it is a lot of bread that’s you know there’s so much more dough in it that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you fill up on so much bread so fast.

⏹️ ▶️ John Finding good Sicilian is really difficult because you can screw it up very badly but my my

⏹️ ▶️ John favorite pizza in the world happens to be Sicilian not because from you know from two particular places on Long Island

⏹️ ▶️ John but I don’t think I’ve had Sicilian that I like almost any place else.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s odd to me that a true to form proud New Yorker would enjoy a pizza that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does not require it to be folded. You can’t fold it. I know that’s my point, but to me you would know a New Yorker

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because they immediately fold their pizza whether or not they really need to. But this to your point, you are not folding a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sicilian pizza. It is not happening.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, I actually don’t fold my pizza and maybe it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey because I’m from Ohio. You’re from Ohio. I know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but even once I learned the way of the fold, I don’t do it because when you fold that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the little crease in the back becomes a dripping spout of

⏹️ ▶️ John grease. That’s where the orange grease comes out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, and I don’t like getting my hands greasy or anything like that, so there’s a high risk of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hand greasiness if you fold it. It’s much lower if you don’t. As Merlin

⏹️ ▶️ John would say, you’re a fancy duchess.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my word. All right, well anyway, we can stop navel-gazing. We just did it

⏹️ ▶️ John again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John But no, thank you to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the listeners one more time for indulging us not only just over these last few minutes, but over the – somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should add up exactly how much time all these 300 episodes have added up to be because oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my word, we’ve talked to each other for a lot and I am very proud of the work we’ve done. I’m very proud of our work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ethic because like John was saying, it takes some pretty significant scheduling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hurdles and gymnastics in order to get this stuff done especially over summertime where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it has come to my conclusion that the three of us are extremely talented at picking not overlapping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey times to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco go on vacation. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey especially I think this past summer, it was basically three straight weeks that one of us was going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be gone and in a position where recording would be very uncool. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it isn’t that hard in the grand scheme of things, but it’s hard. And I’m proud of us and I’m proud of our listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for sticking with us. And I appreciate all of our listeners for sticking with us. And thank you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Change the Terms. Visit to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco learn more. Following the deadly events of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on August 12, 2017, the tech industry finally started to take real steps to address

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the spread of hate speech online and the ways their platforms are used to organize,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fund, and recruit for white supremacists and other hateful movements. But there’s a group of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco organizations looking for the tech industry to do more to protect people of color, women,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco LGBTQ people, religious minorities, and other marginalized communities. For the past year,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Change the Terms, which is made up of civil rights, anti-hate, and open internet organizations,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been working on a set of corporate policies to help tech companies stop hate and extremism

⏹️ ▶️ Marco online. The coalition has shared these policies with tech giants like Facebook, Google, and Twitter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The corporate policies that Change the Terms developed are intended to help internet companies reduce hateful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco activities that are taking place on their platforms. By implementing and following these policies,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tech companies can help stop the spread of hateful activities via social media, web hosting, and online

⏹️ ▶️ Marco financial transactions. Change the Terms is asking internet users to call on tech giants

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Facebook, Google, and Twitter to lead the industry in stopping online hate.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To learn more and to help out, visit

MacBook Air impressions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Once again, visit to learn more. Thank you so much to Change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Terms for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should probably do some follow-up. And let’s start with Apple making a MacBook Air with retina

⏹️ ▶️ Casey display battery replacements easier. So that it no longer requires replacing the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey top case. How excellent is that? Do you want to tell us about this, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John You look at the iFixit teardown of the new MacBook Air. It’s got some interesting things in there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Of course, iFixit’s whole position is they want everything to be repairable, and Apple’s position for the past several years is

⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t care about that, so they would make these devices, obviously the

⏹️ ▶️ John phones and the other iOS devices, but even the Macs, sealed

⏹️ ▶️ John up with no room to spare for anything and lots of components glued inside it,

⏹️ ▶️ John or lots of components combined together into a single thing. We talked a lot about replacing the, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John any part of the keyboard, um, one of the 2016 and 2017 and probably also 2018 MacBook pros that you had to replace the entire top case.

⏹️ ▶️ John You couldn’t just replace the keyboard part of it because everything was all glued together. So

⏹️ ▶️ John the new, uh, 2018 MacBook Air has some interesting developments, uh, sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John reverting to an, uh, a simpler time of Apple laptop design where the batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John are, yeah. Okay. So there’s still, there’s lots of things that are still glued in there, like the speakers in the batteries, but they’re on these

⏹️ ▶️ John little, I don’t know how to describe it, but you guys know those 3M strips where you can put a hook on the wall,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they know that you’re gonna have to take it off

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because you rent the apartment,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. And there’s a little pull tab at the bottom of it,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you pull, there’s adhesive on the back, and you stick it to the wall, but there’s a little dangly bit of the adhesive that hangs

⏹️ ▶️ John down. You grab that little dangly bit and pull it, stretches the adhesive out, and in the

⏹️ ▶️ John course of stretching it out, it lets it disengage from the wall, in theory, without damaging the wall. So a whole bunch of the

⏹️ ▶️ John components, including the batteries and the speakers inside the MacBook Air, have these little pull tabs on them,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is way better than the thing being glued down there and having to like pry it up or melt the glue.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like they’re designed with the knowledge that, look, you might need to replace a battery on this. And actually the MacBook Air has

⏹️ ▶️ John two batteries, one on each side of the laptop that you can replace individually. Same thing with the speaker assemblies.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’ve done this for a while, but it was noted in the MacFixer thing as well, that the ports, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the things, the precious few ports that are even in this thing are all on secondary

⏹️ ▶️ John circuit boards. So if someone jams something into one of your USB-C ports or someone breaks

⏹️ ▶️ John off the headphone thing and the precious headphone jack is on the side or whatever, you don’t need to replace the entire motherboard,

⏹️ ▶️ John such as it is. You just need to replace this tiny, tiny little daughter card that’s connected by a ribbon cable to everything

⏹️ ▶️ John else. So lots of Apple laptops have done that for a while. And just in general, the ability

⏹️ ▶️ John to get into the thing and take pieces out and replace them is better than it has

⏹️ ▶️ John been in the past. And this is especially impressive considering that the MacBook Air is not a roomy machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not like, well, this is the big one where there’s tons of room. No, it’s very skinny and things are very tightly packed, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it is better designed for repairability than the other ones. So I thought that was worth noting because it is a

⏹️ ▶️ John trend in the right direction. That also brings up a secondary topic. This is

⏹️ ▶️ John based on some conversations I think people have been having in Slack lately

⏹️ ▶️ John and elsewhere. Like how, the MacBook Air that we see now, is this

⏹️ ▶️ John a product that was started many years ago and it has finally come out? Or is this a product that was created in

⏹️ ▶️ John haste based on feedback from the beginning in 2015 line of laptops? Obviously Apple’s never gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John tell us. But looking at the inside of the thing, I don’t know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m thinking there are some things to suggest that this was not a hastily slapped together

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop. But there are also things to suggest that its design

⏹️ ▶️ John reflects feedback received from the 2015, 2016, and maybe even 2017 years of MacBook Pros.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I’m, you know, I like,

⏹️ ▶️ John the trend is in the right direction, and I’m not sure which would be more reassuring if this was hastily assembled

⏹️ ▶️ John based on poor sales of the MacBook escaped or if this was a three or four year project that just

⏹️ ▶️ John happened to come out when it did. I like to believe that it was a longer running project and they merely incorporated

⏹️ ▶️ John feedback into it as it was being developed. But you know, we’ll find again, we’ll find out in 50 years when people

⏹️ ▶️ John write their tell all

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco books if they can

⏹️ ▶️ John still remember what the heck happened because we can’t even remember what happened five years ago on our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m one of the people who thinks that they probably started this about two years ago. You know, when it became clear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the reactions to the MacBook Pro line that launched two years ago were not as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco positive as they wanted them to be, because this does incorporate a lot of feedback from those. It is improved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from those in a number of ways while still being one of those generation machines. I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back then Apple thought they had to replace the MacBook Air. I think they thought the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new MacBook Pros would eventually come down in price and be able to get cheap models to replace it, and that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of happened with this new one. Like it’s kind of that, uh, but you know, kind of not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And, and so, you know, I think, um, I’m, I’m very happy to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these design updates. Like it’s not major in the sense that like it doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things I wanted. It doesn’t have a new keyboard. It doesn’t have more ports or the return

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a card reader or anything like that. Um, so you know, there, this is not a machine that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is ideal for me, But I gotta say, people do seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be liking it a lot. And liking it a lot more than they have liked, say, the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Escape, which is very similar. As I talked about before with this machine,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on paper, if you weren’t buying the MacBook Escape for some reason, I don’t see why that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason still applies, and all of a sudden people wanna, or it doesn’t apply, and all of a sudden people wanna buy this who didn’t wanna buy that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they do. And over the weekend, I was in a store a couple times and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got to pick one up and play with it for a little bit longer. And you know, I gotta say,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does feel a lot better. Like I’ve been carrying around the 13-inch MacBook Pro for a while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now, which is very similar. It’s only a quarter pound heavier and it’s a little bit thicker at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the front. You know, it doesn’t have the wedge shape. But the Air feels better.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like the difference in how good it feels is bigger than you would expect.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like when you’re carrying it, when you’re holding it, when you’re using it, it really is a nicer feeling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer than my 13-inch MacBook Pro. And there’s a few reasons, a few areas. A lot of it just comes down to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size. Like how easy it is to pick up off the table, you know, John’s favorite argument. It’s super great picking it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off the table, you know, opening and closing one-handed. It just, it feels, the wedge feels really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice. If you remember, I had a very obscure complaint with the 13-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pro, which I think applies to all the 2016 and forward MacBook Pro models,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where the ridge under the left and right front side of the case, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe is an intake vent, there’s a ridge on both sides, and when you pick up the laptop, your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fingers go into that ridge and it’s sharp, and it feels pretty unpleasant to actually hold the laptop by those edges.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The MacBook Air doesn’t have those ridges. It’s a totally different design on the bottom. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco found it really nice and really pleasant pick up and carry around and use the MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in ways that the 13-inch and 15-inch touch bar models don’t feel that nice. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can see why people like this thing, even though it’s not completely rational or not completely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco based on specs, because the specs I think aren’t a very good deal for the money.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What a lot of reviewers are finally noting is that the screen is also a lot less bright. It’s only 300

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nits instead of 500 compared to the MacBook Pro. So like it’s not a very bright screen. It is a nice screen, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a bright screen. It, you know, it has, it’s pretty slow. You know, it’s roughly, you know, MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco class. And reviewers are saying that you hear the fans spin up a lot when it’s working hard. And because it’s MacBook class,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s often. And so like there’s reasons why it will remind you it’s a low-end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco machine, but it does seem really nice. And so I’m understanding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now a little bit better why people who didn’t like the Escape or 13-inch Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the Air, even though on paper it doesn’t make sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John We have ours here now as well, and I’ve been using it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if I don’t think about the price, it’s nice. Having Touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ John with no touch bar is really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John It seems nice and quick. The wedge shape, to your point about it feeling nice, I

⏹️ ▶️ John talked a lot about this over the past year or so, but like the wedge shape really is a perceptual

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that makes the thing feel different and better and

⏹️ ▶️ John familiar to people who like the MacBook Air. And I was replacing a 2011 MacBook Air with this 2018 one, so

⏹️ ▶️ John it all fits together. Well, I like the fact that it’s smaller than the, like, you know, length and width wise

⏹️ ▶️ John than the 2011 that it’s replacing, but that it has, you know, an equal

⏹️ ▶️ John screen more or less if you run it in non-native res, which is still a bit of a sore point.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it looks like a machine that’s well put together. I really wish it had more ports.

⏹️ ▶️ John I really wish it didn’t have this keyboard. We already talked about this before, but in the grand scheme of things, it is

⏹️ ▶️ John a reasonable, what we hope is the last gasp of this particular laptop design

⏹️ ▶️ John with some changes internally that I hope continue on into the future laptop designs.

⏹️ ▶️ John All that stuff about command strip pull tabs on all the stuff and being able to replace pieces individually,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that’s all good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, especially for the MacBook Air line. I mentioned when we were talking about this new model,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Air needs to be especially serviceable and especially rugged and durable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is used so often in places like schools where they’re gonna get beaten up. A lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of kids use them, a lot of careless adults use them, or they use it in environments

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are just difficult environments. And that’s why I think the butterfly keyboard is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a huge problem on this machine. But other than that, that is now my only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco complaint about this machine. Everything else seems like they really addressed the needs of the MacBook Air market pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, at least as well as modern Apple could have. Also, by the way, I find the gold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco color really fascinating on this thing. Like every time, you know, between the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco website and the press hands-on area, and seeing it in stores, in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a couple different stores now, this color looks different every time I see it. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of floats between gold and orange and a little bit salmon-y pink, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have no idea what to call this color, but if I was at all into the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco goldish hues of things, I would love this color. Unfortunately, I’m not, but it’s a really fascinating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case color.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I have a really random question with regard to the MacBook Air. It is clear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that since it has no touch bar, that that is a concession.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I would guess it is almost certainly because of cost, but it does have touch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ID. So do you view this keyboard layout, so do you view the presence

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really of touch ID as a concession that the touch bar is imperfect, or do you think it is strictly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and only a financial problem? Just cost.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think what we will, what will answer that question for us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like when there is a next generation of MacBook Pros, do we get this option? You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John or is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this all that we get? Like, is the touch bar totally gone from them or does it become optional replaced with this as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the other options, right? And we don’t know yet. And honestly, I wouldn’t bet on that happening. It does seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Apple is really in on the touch bar even though many of us are not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t know, I think in this model, it’s very likely to just be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cost. And even if they could have put it in there and maintained pretty good margins otherwise,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they probably didn’t put it in for market segmentation reasons. Like the Touch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bar, whether or not it costs them extra money it is used to justify higher prices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the higher end models. So if they put it on the lower end models, that removes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a key difference from them, and that makes the pricing jump less

⏹️ ▶️ Marco justifiable to customers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now that’s a fair point. Also, some real-time follow-up on Command Strips. You will never guess,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey particularly Marco, what the URL for the Command Strips is, what host name it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey man. How does that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make you feel from like 15, 20 years ago? I thought it was gonna say command.strip.

⏹️ ▶️ John No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John no, no. That’s a Windows reference,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a Mac OS reference.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco DOS reference. A DOS, yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So how about them apples?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Unfortunately, autoexec.bat is not a valid DLD. or at config.set.

ARM Mac Pro?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, tell me one of you who put this in the show notes about Mac Pro going ARM in

⏹️ ▶️ John 2020.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This

⏹️ ▶️ John is actually related to, or moments ago, I’m using about the timelines associated

⏹️ ▶️ John with the MacBook Air, right? So this quandary that I brought up a couple of shows ago about

⏹️ ▶️ John the new Mac Pro coming and Apple ever more strongly signaling that they’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ John put ARM chips in Macs because the ARM chips are awesome and they would work really well in Macs,

⏹️ ▶️ John as the primary CPU that is. The Mac Pro, like, okay, well, the Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John is coming. They said it’s coming. It’s 2019 product. Will this be the last great

⏹️ ▶️ John Intel based Mac or will it be the first, hopefully great ARM based Mac?

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, and there’s me getting nervous about buying it because both cases have

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco upsides and

⏹️ ▶️ John downsides. Obviously, if it was the last great Intel Mac, it’s kind of weird to be buying the last of a generation, but then it’s kind of good to

⏹️ ▶️ John get just one more Intel Mac. And if it’s the first ARM one, it’s like, well, was it going to run all my software,

⏹️ ▶️ John all sorts of other issues related to being armed. So both of them are exciting and scary for various reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the ARM thing, a lot of people say, well, how can they be ready to have an ARM Mac? Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ John I know we’ve been waiting two years for the Mac Pro, but if they just decided two years ago

⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re gonna do a Mac Pro at all, that’s not enough time to make a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro caliber ARM CPU and to make a new Mac and to ship it all. It’s just not, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And that makes sense, right? But in thinking about timelines, you have to remember

⏹️ ▶️ John the butterfly effect,

⏹️ ▶️ John alternate timeline where the Mac Pro never existed and Apple never decided to

⏹️ ▶️ John make another one. And that timeline, which was our timeline for a long time, the iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John was the only Pro Mac at the top end, the Pro Desktop Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ John The decision was, you know, two years ago, oh, actually that’s not enough, we have to make a proper

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro with a separate display and all that other business, right? But before they made that decision,

⏹️ ▶️ John it is conceivable that they said, we’re gonna do the ARM transition, and,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, in 2019-ish, 2020-ish, we wanna release our first

⏹️ ▶️ John Macs with ARM processors in them, and, you know, maybe one of them will be

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco at the high

⏹️ ▶️ John end. So their plan could have been, okay, in 2019 to 2020, that’s when we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John release the iMac Pro with an ARM processor. And that ARM processor

⏹️ ▶️ John could have been in the planning and design stage five years ago, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John So I feel like the decision to make a Mac Pro can be entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John separate from the much more distant past decision that Apple made to bring

⏹️ ▶️ John a high-end ARM chip out suitable for its high-end desktop computers that you could, you decide to make a

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro, it’s not impossible that it could be ARM, provided

⏹️ ▶️ John that the previous plan was to bring out an ARM iMac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s got me thinking more seriously about the prospect of the new Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro being ARM. Whereas before I couldn’t think about it seriously at all because there’s just not enough time to make it, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, a pro caliber ARM processor. But if I just think, well, it’s just gonna use the one they would have otherwise used in the

⏹️ ▶️ John iMac Pro, and that one they started planning five or six years ago. That at least is conceivable. Is it true? Do

⏹️ ▶️ John we have anything to support it? No, I’m just musing or whatever. But I thought I would bring

⏹️ ▶️ John that up just because it’s something that I hadn’t heard offered on this show or elsewhere.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it makes me start entertaining for real the idea of an ARM Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, even though I still think it’s a distant second to the much more obvious choice of it just being,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, a Xeon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is there a particular preference that you have? You know, if they called you in and said, John, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up to you, ARM or Intel, what are we doing?

⏹️ ▶️ John ARM would definitely be more exciting. And also you have to believe that ARM would be faster at this point, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like that if they did have a pro caliber, you know, 16 core ARM CPU.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m scared about compatibility. And I’m as weird as it would

⏹️ ▶️ John be to have like the last, one of the last round of Intel Macs.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, I’d probably be okay with it. I’m okay with either one. Like, they’re both exciting for different reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wouldn’t be super disappointed. It’s not like I wouldn’t buy it if like, Intel Mac Pro comes out and then

⏹️ ▶️ John like six months later, the, you know, the ARM MacBook Air comes out and it’s amazing. I’m not gonna mind about

⏹️ ▶️ John that. Like, I don’t know. I don’t feel like I have a strong preference. The ARM one is more technologically

⏹️ ▶️ John exciting, but the Intel one will probably be a more useful machine for longer. I’ve never planned to keep my next computer

⏹️ ▶️ John for 10 years like I’ve kept this one.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John never the plan. Five years, maybe, three years, maybe, 10 years, no. That is never the plan.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just things have gone awry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One question I had about, like I was thinking the other day, there was some interview,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh, I think it was the Ars Technica interview of Anand Lalshampy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Phil Schiller talking about the A12X and how awesome it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I was wondering, they mentioned one of the reasons why iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is able to be so fast is that it has unified memory architecture between the CPU and the GPU. There’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one bank of RAM, and it’s very fast, one bank of very fast RAM that is fast enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be video RAM that also uses the main CPU RAM. And that way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like in PCs and Macs, the GPUs have their own separate banks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of video RAM, and you have to be shuffling data back and forth over these buses to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get data from main memory or from the CPU to the GPU texture memory or video memory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and vice versa, if you do computation back and forth and everything. And so that shuffling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco data back and forth between main memory and video memory is like a major performance bottleneck. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a lot of effort that needs to go into like optimizing for that when you’re designing stuff that uses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the GPU on Macs and PCs. And with iOS, that’s just way, way simpler because it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one bank of RAM that’s all super fast that the CPU and GPU can access. So I was wondering,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a situation where they go to ARM for Macs, would they go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a unified memory architecture also?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, like the old term for that, I wouldn’t consider it a unified

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco memory architecture. I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John shared memory?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Shared memory

⏹️ ▶️ John architecture is the pejorative term for it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, well, cheap computers can’t afford to have dedicated VRAM, so they just share the RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ John for many years that was the slam against the low-end Macs. It’s like, ah, but you don’t get dedicated VRAM. Right, because integrated GPUs

⏹️ ▶️ John usually do that. Right, they have to, because where else do they get the room for a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of VRAM?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well, some of them have their own RAM packages now, but.

⏹️ ▶️ John At the high end, you can buy GPUs with, what, 12 gigabytes

⏹️ ▶️ John of RAM or something, just for the GPU, separate from the system memory.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But those are Mac Pro-level GPUs. What do gamer ones have now, like three or six?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah, well, a lot of it, But the other thing about the RAM that’s dedicated, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John next to the GPU is that it is designed differently than just generic memory.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like the bus widths are insane, right? So it can be accessed in parallel

⏹️ ▶️ John by a huge number of things in the GPU. And it’s still true that getting information to

⏹️ ▶️ John and from the CPU and main memory and stuff, like it is more of a pain. But once you’re there, the GPU

⏹️ ▶️ John and its dedicated VRAM have a relationship that cannot be matched by

⏹️ ▶️ John the relationship that most CPUs have to their local RAM because the VRAM on GPUs

⏹️ ▶️ John and the whole bus architecture around it is specifically designed for GPUs only and it doesn’t have to

⏹️ ▶️ John keep up with all the demands that regular men and women are asking. It just has to be super wide and super high bandwidth.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think the simplification for the iOS devices is it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John much easier to optimize for energy efficiency and for

⏹️ ▶️ John just in general dealing with bugs and optimizations when you have a single, simple, known architecture and you don’t have to deal with,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, sometimes it’s over here and sometimes it’s over there and sometimes you have to shift between. But part of the point of metal,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are many purposes to metal, but one of them is making more efficient use of the bandwidth

⏹️ ▶️ John between a CPU and a dedicated video card in terms of command sequences

⏹️ ▶️ John and how many times you have to communicate back and forth between the two areas. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I think on the high end, things are still going to necessarily be more complicated

⏹️ ▶️ John for a long time to come. On the lower

⏹️ ▶️ John end, obviously I think, you know, Apple has shown that

⏹️ ▶️ John you can do a quote unquote integrated GPU better than

⏹️ ▶️ John Intel has done it or better than Intel seems to want to do it because occasionally Apple has pushed Intel

⏹️ ▶️ John to put beefier integrated graphics, the whole Iris graphics architecture around

⏹️ ▶️ John its CPUs, because Apple wanted better integrated GPUs that can do more of the stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John that, at the time, macOS needed to do with GPUs. Apple can do better still,

⏹️ ▶️ John as it’s shown with its iOS devices. So I think on all but the highest of high end,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple can do a pretty good job of its, quote unquote, integrated GPU being sufficient,

⏹️ ▶️ John certainly through the whole MacBook line and the MacBook Air, maybe even well into the MacBook Pro line,

⏹️ ▶️ John especially with the ability to use external GPUs, they could just say, look, the new pro way to do

⏹️ ▶️ John it is we give you a pretty awesome integrated GPU on your ARM MacBook Pro, and if you need

⏹️ ▶️ John something even beefier, then do eGPU. Like I think that is a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John position, and we’ll have all the wins that you talked about in terms of simplification and optimization

⏹️ ▶️ John and battery life, hopefully, and all that other stuff. So like the prospect of an ARM Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ John again, looking at the new iPad Pros, the prospect of an ARM Mac has never been more

⏹️ ▶️ John tantalizing and easy to see. Because if you look what they’ve been able to do in a completely fanless 5.6mm thin

⏹️ ▶️ John slab, it’s like, what could they do with a full laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John with a huge battery and two fans in it? Like, the power would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unbelievable. Well, see, that’s why I think, you know, because the ARM

⏹️ ▶️ Marco designs would most likely, first of all, they would most likely lack Thunderbolt, because Thunderbolt is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an Intel technology. I think Intel’s now willing to license it. Paul Matzkoff Money can fix that

⏹️ ▶️ John problem, like I said before. I believe in the power of money, and Intel’s need for that money.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Brian Duffy Well, sure. But they would lack Thunderbolt, probably, at least at first. And they would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also probably lack a lot of the huge high-bandwidth PCI Express

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lane arrangements. I know internally, I think modern iOS devices do have PCI Express, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know Mac Pro level

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just bandwidth and throughput to things. That’s why I think it is much more likely that the first ARM

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac start at the low end, you know, especially the 12-inch MacBook, it seems like an obvious…

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, they could have been making them for years already. You just look at the chips that are in the iOS devices.

⏹️ ▶️ John You could take those and just slap them into a MacBook and it would be unbelievable. So that’s what everyone’s… The obvious

⏹️ ▶️ John thing people expect. But I think the iPad Pro, the most recent one, showed me that they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John got enough grunt now that there are already with it with the things that they’ve released now today

⏹️ ▶️ John are within striking distance if you just like double the number of cores and increase the clock speed and put a fan and a big

⏹️ ▶️ John cooler on it. They’re already within striking distance. So I like again, I’m just I’m just suggesting things

⏹️ ▶️ John that make me put it into the realm of possibility, not that make me think that they’re going to do it instead

⏹️ ▶️ John of, you know, a laptop because laptop is a much more obvious win.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What’s also interesting to think about, to me anyway, is that I feel like we’re starting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have these multi-headed laptops, you know, because the T2 chips,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re all arm, like old A-whatever chips, aren’t they? They’re all old CPUs from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like older Apple devices or very close to them, aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they? Well, not quite, but I think the T2 is like roughly an A10 in performance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not like they didn’t just literally take those chips unmodified, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco architecture I think it is roughly A10 class. Yeah, the

⏹️ ▶️ John CPU cores, that’s how they’re classifying them. It’s not an A10 system on a chip, but if you

⏹️ ▶️ John look at the CPU core part of it, it looks like the same architecture as the cores that we use in the A10.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so that has kind of come out of nowhere over the last couple of years, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it seems like the T chips are taking on more and more and more of a role

⏹️ ▶️ Casey within Apple laptops. So do they just kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of envelop them, like white blood cell style? Like all of a sudden, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no Intel chip left, or the Intel chip is only for things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that haven’t been compiled for ARM, which I know it’s not quite that simple, but just for the sake of discussion. Over time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does the T2 chip kind of just subsume and consume whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey needs that Intel was previously serving?

⏹️ ▶️ John you got such a big power budget inside a laptop, you can have the T2 and the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey regular

⏹️ ▶️ John system on a chip. Like you can combine them, but having them both is not

⏹️ ▶️ John entirely insane. I mean, it’s a little bit insane. Like the thing is that the T2 is basically running the show in the

⏹️ ▶️ John new Mac architecture. Like it’s the thing that starts the computer, and it’s the thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John starts the Intel CPU, right? So it is the computer at this point, and the Intel CPU is basically

⏹️ ▶️ John the co-processor, in terms of the secure startup process and validating the images and doing

⏹️ ▶️ John all that stuff, right? So a cleaner architecture would be, OK, well, now you go to

⏹️ ▶️ John the big, hunking ARM CPU and the Intel one is out of there, and you just need one of those because you put all

⏹️ ▶️ John the different things that you need inside it, whether on a system on a chip or on

⏹️ ▶️ John a package with multiple dies inside it or whatever. And there’s no reason to have

⏹️ ▶️ John one dedicated little thing that that starts up the computer in a secure way and kicks it off to the other thing, you can just combine

⏹️ ▶️ John it into one. But for practical reasons, in the short term, it may be more expedient to go with

⏹️ ▶️ John an arrangement with two ARM chips. The Intel chips, though, the whole point is you gotta get them out of there because they cost a lot of money and

⏹️ ▶️ John they use a lot of power and they just need to get them out. Like, we’re all hoping that they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be able to emulate Intel on ARM processors in some way that isn’t super duper painful

⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s kind of essential for the transition. Real-time follow-up is an article

⏹️ ▶️ John someone just put in a link to to remind us that I think we talked about this on the show this is from 2017 that Intel is

⏹️ ▶️ John Making Thunderbolt 3 royalty-free. I don’t know what the details of it I think they mostly just mean in terms of you

⏹️ ▶️ John want to make devices that you know Use controller chips and stuff like that. Does it also mean if you’re gonna make

⏹️ ▶️ John host computers? Maybe anyway, the point is Intel is already opening up Thunderbolt

⏹️ ▶️ John more than they you know more than they had in the past which means that they want it to be widely adopted, which means

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re even more amenable to any kind of arrangement they might need with Apple too. You know, again, if

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple says, we’re not gonna buy CPUs from you anymore, Intel, although

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll be cranky, is probably gonna say, well, you’ll still buy modems from us, right? Or,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, sell modem chips. Are you interested in licensing, you know, some

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of Thunderbolt controller chip or technology? Like, Intel still needs to sell things, right? They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not, if they can’t, Once they’ve failed to change Apple’s mind, they’re not just

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna go away and never have a relationship with Apple again. They still wanna sell Apple stuff so they can make money and stay in business because Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John got all the money. So I’m very hopeful about a continuing fruitful

⏹️ ▶️ John relationship between Intel and Apple in areas where it needs to exist.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so last week, Marco, you had a pre-release iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or a review unit iPad Pro. Since then, John, did you buy any other new Apple hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other than that MacBook Air?

⏹️ ▶️ John Nope, just MacBook Air. I haven’t even seen the new iPads. I need to get to a store and look at them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Man, it’s like you don’t do homework for the show. Why don’t you care about the show like Marco and I do?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m busy, I got things to do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have also purchased an iPad Pro. I’ve purchased an iPad for the first time. Well, actually my most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recent iPad mini was a gift. So I haven’t purchased an iPad since, gosh, I think the first Retina mini,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whenever that was, like 18 years ago. But I purchased an 11-inch iPad Pro, 256,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cellular, space gray. I did get the smart keyboard folio, and I am glad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I wasn’t paying close attention to how much it was because holy Moses, what was it? $180 or something like that? Yeah, something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hilariously expensive, actually depressingly expensive. I did not get a pencil because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think I really have a need for one. And maybe I’ll be convinced I’m wrong. Plus, you know, the holidays are coming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up and that could be an expensive but useful gift. But I do have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this iPad Pro. I did, did I say it was cellular? It is cellular because even though I was planning not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to go cellular this time, eventually Marco amongst others convinced me, Marco and Jason

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Snell especially convinced me that that was a poor choice. And certainly my own experience

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for buying iPads for the first few years is that when I didn’t go cellular, I regretted it. So I did go cellular.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey People in the US, interesting tip, if you’re cheap like me and don’t wanna add, you know, 10 or 20 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey monthly to your cell phone bill. T-Mobile actually allows you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least once, I don’t know if it’s more than once, to buy for $10 one time to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buy, I think it’s a five gig, five month pass. So it’s like one of those, you know, I want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it just for today and then it disappears, or I want it just for this week or this month, and then it disappears, you know, a prepay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plan. but T-Mobile offers you a 5GB for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey five months for $10 which is I think an unbelievably good deal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I am really excited about that. T-Mobile in the past had offered 200MB for free every single month

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which they don’t do anymore which is too bad. And because everyone will ask why not tether to your phone because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even with it being easy enough to just go into settings and say tether to my own

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone please that is still way more annoying than just having it built into the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And yes, it is possible, and yes, I do still tether this to my phone from time to time, say if I’m watching a video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something like that. But Marco in private conversations with me and Jason Snell in private

⏹️ ▶️ Casey conversations with me were right, having cellular is so much nicer. So that’s what I bought and I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some more impressions or some thoughts about it. But Marco, why don’t you tell us what you’ve learned since we spoke last

⏹️ ▶️ Casey week?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco Amaro Honestly, I don’t really have much else to say about the iPad. I did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole video review of it. I like it a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I’ve been using it now for, you know, about a little over a week now. And,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it’s not perfect. There’s some things that I, you know, obviously there’s some nitpicks I have.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The new smart keyboard Folio is better in some ways, but worse in others. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s overall kind of a sidestep. Like it’s way better on your lap than the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco previous one, but it’s not as good like on countertops. So that’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of, it’s kind of eh. It also is significantly bulkier around the back, which I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love. But actually using the new iPad, I just think it’s awesome. Like I love using it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. It’s just really, really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Face ID, just like on the iPhone, face ID is kind of a mixed bag, but mostly positive. I do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frequently cover up the camera with the way I hold it in landscape, but it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way faster than Touch ID in other cases, or it’s more convenient in other cases. It’s especially more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco convenient when you are using the iPad and have to authenticate for things like passwords. It’s really, really nice for that, because you don’t even have to move your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hands. Like, it just sees you, and it’s like, oh, hey, it’s still you. Okay, cool, let’s see it. That’s really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is still a massive fingerprint magnet. The oleophobic coating has not changed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all. So it is still the same fingerprint magnet that the previous generation was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that every iPad Pro has been, because they changed the coating to make it pencil compatible,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ever since they did that, it has been a massive fingerprint magnet. So that’s incredibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunate. But I’m assuming that Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re not unaware of this issue, that maybe they just haven’t found a better oleophobic coating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet that can work with a pencil. Otherwise, I’m a big fan. I like it a lot. I love the new size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new 11-inch size. It’s similar to the 10.5, but nicer. I love the new straight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco edges, the flat edges around it. I love the curved screen. It looks really sleek and modern.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I really, really hope that the new iPhones next year follow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this industrial design.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so like I had said, my most recent iPad that we had in the house was a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fourth gen iPad mini. So this was the most recent iPad mini, I think it was from 2015,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I’m not mistaken. So that was halfway through this show’s run, roughly, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of bananas. And I still use the iPad mini from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to time, but had mostly abandoned it at this point. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I did get this iPad Pro because the hardware was just too good looking and too sexy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to pass up. And so I got it on launch day. I just sauntered into the store and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey made it happen. Thanks to my business contact there. And anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am really enjoying this thing so far. I did not have any iPad Pro in the past. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t have a lot of experience with the smart keyboard folio, whatever thing, from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey prior years. But I remember always seeing it and seeing how it was kind of stepped in, you know, there was a thick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey part and a thin part. And that always just made me think that it felt gross. And this one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is even the whole way around. It is pretty sturdy in the lap, which my understanding of past

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years is that that was not the case. On the 11-inch, I don’t care for the two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey angles very much. There are basically two different positions you can put it in. One that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of vertical and one that’s at a very slight angle. And the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey vertical one, the only time I’ve really used that is if I’m in bed and watching something. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m laying down in bed and the iPad is just like on my chest. And that’s about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. The other one is for basically any other use. And I wish there was a third one or something with a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit steeper angle, because if you’re sitting up close to it and you know, you’re, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey considerably, your head is considerably above the screen. I don’t feel like the angle of, of the, of the other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey position is really steep enough, which is a little frustrating, but overall,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, I love this thing. I am really surprised by how much I’ve enjoyed using

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. And I took it with me on a sh on a small trip that we went on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over this past weekend to watch some dear friends of ours get married. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I brought my MacBook, adorable, I brought my 12-inch MacBook, but I attempted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to use that 12-inch MacBook as little as possible. And I took some notes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on what I couldn’t avoid using the MacBook for.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And truth be told, it really wasn’t that much. I even figured out on the plane

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to California, I figured out how to post to my blog from just the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so, or actually maybe that was the night before, I might be lying to you. So, but the point is I figured out how to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey post my blog on my iPad and that turned out to be the app working copy, which is a really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey powerful Git client for iPad. It’s a little, I find the interface a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit clunky in a few ways, but it is extremely powerful. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it even includes a built-in and pretty good markdown editor. And if you recall,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or if you were not aware, I wrote my own blogging engine in Node years ago. And the input to that blogging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey engine is basically just a folder full of markdown files. And so I was able to compose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a markdown file in WorkingCopy. I was able to push that to GitHub. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then I was able to create, I used Heroku as my particular host of choice. And I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey able to create a hook in Heroku to say, hey, when I push to this particular branch of this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey particular repo in GitHub, go ahead and redeploy my website. And so twice for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two different blog posts I wrote on my website, I did that from the plane, all completely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the iPad, which is something that I hadn’t really been able to do before and I thought was extremely cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The only things that really fell down are, and we talked about this actually somewhat recently,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the particular app I use to manage our, to kind of balance our checkbook, if you will, and manage our money is called MoneyWell.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is, I like it a lot, except it is not updated terribly frequently and they don’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a sharing story that’s been consistently working for sharing between devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I don’t really have an equivalent on the iPad and the best I could do is using screens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by some friends of ours, which is a VNC client. I could, you know, remote into my iMac and do that, but that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fairly clunky, not because, not because screens is bad, screens is fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just, that’s always going to be clunkier than, you know, doing something on an app on your device.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, additionally, there was an instance where I wanted to grab a movie

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from, actually a friend’s Plex, and I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have the sync permissions on that person’s Plex server,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but if you know what you’re doing and have YouTube DL, which is one of my favorite command line tools in the entire world,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can actually download pretty much anything on a friend’s Plex server

⏹️ ▶️ Casey via YouTube DL. And though somebody in just the last week or two,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or I guess just last few days, has released ISH via TestFlight, which is a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iOS Linux shell in user land, which is really interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh, really?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. And I tried installing YouTube DL, which did work. But the second I tried to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey run it, it was like, ha ha, no. So I am very interested in that. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is very interesting. It reminds me a lot in spirit. And I’m sure this is technically inaccurate.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it reminds me a lot in spirit of Cygwin, C-Y-G-W-I-N,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which was basically Bash and interpreted between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Bash and the Win32 subsystem. So you could basically run almost true to form Bash shell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on Windows. ISH seems very similar. We’ll put links in the show notes. So for certain things you can do,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re doing more basic stuff that the author slash authors have intended or tried,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it works okay. So like VI works, but my preferred editor, which happens to be Emacs, please don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco That doesn’t work.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What? I just, it’s what I got used to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I knew what I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was doing and I’ve got a lot of momentum there and I don’t care passionately about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Whatever, it’s just what I’m used to. So anyway. That might be worse than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Velveeta.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m okay with that. So anyway, I’m trying not to get derailed. I couldn’t do a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey YouTube DL from my iPad and I had to do that on my MacBook. And the reason I wanted to do that, not to stream

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it from Plex, which I absolutely can do on my iPad, is because I wanted to prepare to be able to watch it on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plane. And so this way I would just have the file on my MacBook and be able

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to just watch it on the plane, you know, disconnected. And then finally, I do have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a USB-C SD card reader that does work pretty darn well. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it does not show the particular flavor of raw files that my camera generates. And this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey important, not because I necessarily wanna do any editing of raw files on my iPad, and frankly, I don’t really do any editing of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey raw files anyway, but I do shoot in raw in JPEG, and basically my workflow is, if there’s anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I might wanna blow up or maybe touch up one day in the future, I’ll keep the raw, but generally speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just delete all of them. And what I’d like to be able to do on the iPad is just tap through and say, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one’s garbage, that one’s garbage, that one’s garbage, that one’s garbage, okay, delete all those off the SD card and move along with your life.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that doesn’t seem to be possible because I think because of the particular flavor of raw files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that my Olympus camera generates. From what I understand, that is not true of every camera’s raw files.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just got unlucky. So all told, I spent the entire weekend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey remotely, you know, doing things that you could even call work all on my iPad. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as I got more and more used to the multitasking features in iOS, well, I guess it was like nine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or 10 or whatever that these came out, but I hadn’t really used them much. It’s pretty powerful and I do like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a lot. It is not always as quick as my MacBook is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but especially now that I actually have a keyboard attached to my iPad, because again, I’ve never had an iPad Pro before. It is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and this is what Marco actually had said just an episode or two back. Once you have a keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey connected to your iPad Pro, it changes everything and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes it so much better a computer than it was before. So all told,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two thumbs up for this thing, man. I really, really like it. And I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stress enough, and I think I said this last episode, I am really looking forward to iOS 13 or whatever’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey coming next year because I just get this sneaking suspicion that a lot of these pain points are either going to go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey away or be a lot less painful in the future.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still just wanna use my iPad as an iPad and I’m still holding out hope for an iOS laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, you know, I understand the utility of having the keyboard. My wife uses it and I totally get it, but

⏹️ ▶️ John to me, as good as it is and how much it changes how the iPad is, I think it would be

⏹️ ▶️ John better still if it was an actual hinge laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, like Jason Snell’s beloved Brydge keyboard, but made by Apple and

⏹️ ▶️ John not two separate weird things. Not that I have a yearning for that, but I feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s the point at which I will start entertaining putting a keyboard on it because in my life, the role that

⏹️ ▶️ John the iPad fills is the role of the tablet where I do stuff that doesn’t require

⏹️ ▶️ John typing on a keyboard. Although I do answer short emails and stuff and send people messages or whatever, and that’s fine. But

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole point is when I’m using the iPad, I’m not in the computing mode. Now, if I was

⏹️ ▶️ John to go somewhere and only bring my iPad with me, as I’ve done, did

⏹️ ▶️ John I do it past a couple WWDCs? I don’t even remember. I only really use my iPad at WWDCs, but I’m not doing any typing

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore at WWDC. I’m mostly just reading things and sending random messages or whatever. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still a little bit down in the hole. This turns your iPad into a heavier

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad with a floppy keyboard. So that’s still not particularly appealing to me. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I do wanna check out this new one because although as Marco determined it is heavier, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John also flatter and not as lumpen. And maybe I’ll change my

⏹️ ▶️ John tune. But I would still love to have one of these.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just not sure I have a pressing need to buy one quite at this moment. I do want to see them in the store,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe I’ll be convinced otherwise. Especially since the accessories that I was so excited about,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Smart Folio case, it’s getting mixed reviews. Not

⏹️ ▶️ John the keyboard one, but the non-keyboard one. Mixed reviews as compared to the old arrangement. And my

⏹️ ▶️ John current arrangement that I have in the whatever model I have, like the original 9.7 inch iPad Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John I have the smart cover, plain old, you know, original smart cover that just goes

⏹️ ▶️ John on the front, and whatever that back shell case is, and they’re matched to each other, they’re the same color,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re all this kind of rubberized material. I really love that arrangement.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would love it more if it didn’t make the iPad wider and taller, because it goes all around the edges, so that’s why I think I like

⏹️ ▶️ John the protective sandwich, as the past episode was called. But

⏹️ ▶️ John mixed reviews, I’m hearing from people about the material of the case, and how it compares to

⏹️ ▶️ John the old ones and weird issues with the bazillion magnets. So I gotta go to a store and check them out,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think I’ll be able to hold off buying one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I really, really like it. And again, I can’t stress enough that I do not have a prior gen to really compare

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to, but I really like the case. I don’t think the materials are bad. I think it works pretty well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again, with my small lamentation about angles, particularly on the 11 inch. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that I couldn’t put my finger on until I read Jason Snell’s review that just came out earlier

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today as we record, is that it is just this like grand expanse

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of gray that the cover in fact, like when you close it all up and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are looking at what would be the front of the iPad if the cover wasn’t in the way, it’s just nothing but gray. There’s no ridges,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s just a slab of gray. And I couldn’t figure out why I kept looking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at that and thinking I should put a sticker on this because that is not usually my thing. I did on my work laptop because who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cares, it’s not mine, But I’ve never stickered up any of my devices, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really thinking about stickering the hell out of this Mike Hurley style because it is just gray.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just a slab of gray, and I don’t really love it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like for a device that is so creative focused and artistic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco focused and so fun in so many other ways, the design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the dark gray, flat, bland keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cover keyboard cover that doesn’t even have an Apple logo on it. Like there was a good segment on Upgrade about this a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few days ago, yesterday rather. It’s like, and also like the new cover design also like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco picks up any crumbs off your counter because like it’s just like, it’s just like flat rubber like I have right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here. It just looks so bland. Like it looks like it is punishing you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for wanting nice looking things. And it’s such a contrast to the iPad itself,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John ridiculously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice looking. Like the iPad, the actual iPad looks gorgeous. Like it’s so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s such an amazing piece of industrial design. And then you put this ugly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keyboard case on it that looks like it’s punishing you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean, I’m not as, I don’t know if I would personally describe it as actively ugly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it is certainly not great looking. And I think that I will probably end up putting some stickers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on mine at some point or another. But all in all, I do love having a keyboard attached

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to an iPad. And I also do love the industrial design of this iPad. I love having the flat

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sides. It reminds me of how much I miss the feel and to some degree the look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like the iPhone 5 era with the flat sides. I wish that would come back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on new iPhones and I don’t think it will, or if it does, I’ll be surprised.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I do love having the flat sides. Occasionally I stand by what I had said about being a little bit of a pain to pick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up off a flat surface, but that’s not something I run into often. But no, I love this thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been impressed by it. The sound is pretty darn good. Again, I have a mini, a three-year-old mini to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey compare to, so all of these comparisons, you know, take with a grain of salt. But the sound is good, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey screen is good, face ID is wonderful, you know, everything about this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been really, really impressed by.

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of picking it up, I think someone tweeted at us a video of an alternate technique for,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you wanted to pick up your 11-inch anyway, iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John off the table with one hand, if you can manage it, you can put

⏹️ ▶️ John one finger on one side and one finger and your thumb on the other side and pinch it and pick it up

⏹️ ▶️ John like that. I guess if you can palm a basketball, you can probably pull that off, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not. Oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey word,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yeah, no way.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Can you do it? Not even close.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I actually can pick it up with one hand, only if the keys part of it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco face down. So it creates a little bit bigger of a gap. So if the keys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are on the bottom side and the keyboard cover is closed, and I put my hands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco around the binding side of it, then I can pick it up with one hand.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, actually, you know what? I was looking at the wrong dimension. I was looking landscape like an idiot. No, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey almost

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it up. Yeah, you’re right. I can almost do it. I can almost do it. It’s close.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, if you have the 12.9 inch, it would take quite a finger span to pull that

⏹️ ▶️ John off, but it’s possible.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s nice. But anyway, no, I really like this thing. I’ve been quite impressed by it. Now, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only problem I have with it is now that I see that ISH is a thing, now I’m just like waiting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for it to support the just handful of things I really wanted to support, which it probably never will. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would love for that to happen. And certainly in a lot of cases, I can just use, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is Panic’s thing? Is it Prompt? Is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that right? Prompt,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. I can just use Prompt and SSH into my iMac. But it would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be nice to be able to do some of that stuff locally. And I think one of the things that the developer, and this is all open source, but one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the things the developer is looking to do is support Node, for example. And I think PHP might have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey support. I’m not sure about that. But it would be cool to be able to write a little bit of code natively

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this device. And so-

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Read some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scripts, too. Like put image magic on it and do some scripting. There’s all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sorts of stuff I could do with this.

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t you get an incredibly uncomfortable feeling? Like you know there’s Unix under there that you could

⏹️ ▶️ John be running an actual shell on the actual hardware, but Apple doesn’t let you. So here, to get

⏹️ ▶️ John around all the App Store restrictions, they’re running a user mode x86 emulator so

⏹️ ▶️ John that you can run a shell inside it on a system that is already, like, just, ugh.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not a lot of empathy for the machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do, like, it’s ridiculous. Like, this is another, I mean, I know Jason Snell

⏹️ ▶️ John had a rant on, was it the most recent upgrade? I haven’t heard the episode, but I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey heard a lot of people talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about it. Complaining that, you know, the iPad hardware, you know, the theme that we’ve heard many times. The iPad hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John is amazing, but the software doesn’t, the software prevents certain things still.

⏹️ ▶️ John He was complaining that Apple doesn’t create its own pro applications for the iPad. It just gives you the more cut down

⏹️ ▶️ John versions of it, which doesn’t make any sense, given the incredible power of the iPad Pro, other than Apple’s general

⏹️ ▶️ John lack of commitment to its pro applications, or lack of commitment to them on iOS anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this is another one of the areas, all the restrictions, which make some sense for historic and current

⏹️ ▶️ John security reasons, but like that you can’t, you can’t offer an

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS application that lets you run a shell even though those capabilities are sitting there

⏹️ ▶️ John or, you know, completely untapped inside the hardware. Again,

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense from a security perspective, but it is entirely within the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason for Apple to provide ability to have sort of a CH rooted, secure sandbox environment

⏹️ ▶️ John where you run a native shell that nevertheless is restricted from doing any damage to the

⏹️ ▶️ John system because it is confined to its little pinned-in world or whatever, where you don’t have to run an

⏹️ ▶️ John x86 emulator on your ARM CPU just so you can get a shell prompt. Like you mentioned Cygwin. I don’t think Cygwin

⏹️ ▶️ John was that bad, but it reminds me of, going back even farther, Mac Mint, which was

⏹️ ▶️ John a system that I believe it was like a port of an Atari Unix-y

⏹️ ▶️ John flavored thing to the 68K Classic Mac. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole reason I ran it on my Mac was, guess what? It lets you have a TCSH prompt on your Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John that you could, you know, go and wander around your Mac’s directories from

⏹️ ▶️ John an actual shell running this weird mutant Atari Unix on top of your Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ John But Classic Mac always didn’t have, wasn’t Unix, didn’t have a shell prompt. Like that’s, you know, same thing with

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows. Like it wasn’t on top of something that was already there. was adding something didn’t exist at all. And

⏹️ ▶️ John this, the ISH thing, I applaud the developer for making it happen, but it

⏹️ ▶️ John depresses me that this is the extent we have to go to to get this functionality when it’s sitting right

⏹️ ▶️ John there, just completely untapped.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, I think that’s fair. And but it is cool as hell. And I’m really hopeful,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now that it’s getting some attention, you know, because Steve Schott and Smith has been talking about this for the last day or so.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m hopeful since it’s open source that we’re going to see a lot of progress on this and maybe get a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasonably full featured shell natively on the iPad, which would be cool.

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MacBook Air reprise

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, tell me about your MacBook Air. What else have you learned about

⏹️ ▶️ John it? Yeah, I guess we kind of already covered that. I mean, I haven’t learned that much exciting about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. It hasn’t yet been dropped. Kids are using it. They don’t seem to have any complaints. Touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ John is great. Kids are already forgetting their passwords. Oh, wonderful. Also because apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John in a recent user version of, I don’t know when they started doing this, but Apple doesn’t want you to have the same password for your Apple ID

⏹️ ▶️ John and for your Mac account. For a while, that was the default, I think, maybe, that you’d

⏹️ ▶️ John set up your Apple ID. I don’t know. Both kids ended up in a situation where their

⏹️ ▶️ John password to get onto the Mac was the same as their Apple ID password, which I understand why Apple doesn’t want it. It’s not a good idea. You shouldn’t reuse

⏹️ ▶️ John passwords. But anyway, now Apple forces you not to do that. So now they have slightly different passwords for

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac and for their Apple ID. But because there’s Touch ID, they never have

⏹️ ▶️ John to enter the Mac one. Like they just swap back and forth, they come to the computer, they don’t even need to

⏹️ ▶️ John click on their face or whatever, they just put their finger on this fingerprint thing and their fingerprint is only associated with a single account and it just

⏹️ ▶️ John logs them into that account. And it’s great. And yeah. So it’s as great as it is

⏹️ ▶️ John though, it still kind of burns me that we don’t have Touch ID on a Mac yet. So hopefully that will be on my

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy Mac Pro someday. But other than that, nothing much to report. Everything going

⏹️ ▶️ John fine. Oh, I guess one additional thing is MagSafe.

⏹️ ▶️ John Stupid MagSafe. Not that anyone’s tripped over the cord, but now, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, we have a place for the laptop. It goes right where the old MacBook Air went.

⏹️ ▶️ John Two things that are pretty big quality of life downgrades from before, and

⏹️ ▶️ John neither has has to do with tripping over the cord. One, I was using the MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John adapter that was designed for the original MacBook Air that couldn’t accept MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John that came in from the side. It’s the kind that looks kind of like a toothbrush that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey comes in from the back. Yeah, yeah. Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, yes, yes, yes. Right? And that was super convenient because the most convenient place for the cord to go away

⏹️ ▶️ John was back behind the desk that the thing is sitting on for me. It also meant that enough

⏹️ ▶️ John of the cord was on top of the desk that when you disconnected the laptop, the cord just sat right there, waiting for you to bring the laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John back and put it on. Like it didn’t like slide off the desk because there was enough of it pulled onto the desk.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that was a much nicer design to use.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so that’s totally gone because USB-C had, if there’s a right angle USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ John power adapter connector, I haven’t found

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it yet.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think Monoprice has a couple, I looked at them, but they’re like ugly, adaptery things. Like it’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of an all-in-one. It’s just not as nice. Second thing is,

⏹️ ▶️ John given that now the thing, the plug has to snake up from the side, when

⏹️ ▶️ John you disconnect the laptop, that cord just slides right off and goes

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco back down

⏹️ ▶️ John the side of the desk because there’s not enough of it on the desk. Now I actually have a little weighted metal

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that you like hook the cord into that we’re kind of using, but because the cord is so thick

⏹️ ▶️ John and kind of unruly, it doesn’t really stay in the little, the little thing doesn’t grab

⏹️ ▶️ John it. It’s not like a grippy thing. It’s more like just a little slot, right? So it’s not easy for the kids

⏹️ ▶️ John to disconnect the cord and put it in the thing. So very often the cord just falls down the side of the desk. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John working on something to make that more reasonable, maybe something that actually grips the cord.

⏹️ ▶️ John The third thing is actually connecting and disconnecting the USB-C thing

⏹️ ▶️ John is more of a pain than MagSafe was. For me, definitely, like you gotta see where the little

⏹️ ▶️ John thing is and I’m trying to be careful not to scrape up the side of the computer and it’s actually, because it’s a new computer

⏹️ ▶️ John and a new power cord, it’s still very stiff, right? It clicks in and it’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of hard to plot. I’m sure that will change as the cable gets looser and looser over

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco time.

⏹️ ▶️ John It will, but right now, it’s very stiff to get in and out of there.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you have to pull it out straight, right? Because it’s not, you can’t pull it on an angle because it’s not gonna come

⏹️ ▶️ John out and you’re just making your life more difficult. And the kids have much more difficulty than I do with it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And because they’re not as careful as I am, and the holes are very small and you have to be precisely

⏹️ ▶️ John aligned, they’re just like scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, scrape, until it eventually goes in, and it just puts

⏹️ ▶️ John my teeth on edge. So, big downgrade in terms of the basic

⏹️ ▶️ John experience of, hey, go put the laptop away and plug it in, or hey, go get the laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll figure out the cord issues, but the plugging and unplugging, I feel like it’s not gonna get any better. In fact, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John probably going to get worse and that the thing will get looser and looser. So it’ll, you know, come

⏹️ ▶️ John out more easily than it does right now. Like I kind of like the fact that it stays in very well

⏹️ ▶️ John right now, because everything’s new, because I don’t have to worry about, you know, someone moving the laptop around and it

⏹️ ▶️ John becoming disconnected, but, ugh, downgrade.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey To that end, something I meant to bring up earlier and I completely forgot. I haven’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey noticed this with USB-C charging cables quite as much,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but when plugging in the Apple, whatever they call it, the Apple HDMI adapter,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget what it’s called, the official name for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Digital AV adapter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe? Yeah, yeah, I think that’s it, thanks. And the Monoprice SD card reader, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably cost me 10 or 15 bucks. But plugging those into the iPad Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plugging it in was fine, but removing them was actually like genuinely difficult.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The iPad Pro is more grippy than I remember the MacBook Adorable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ever having been. And I don’t know if it’s just me or I’m crazy.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was talking to, I think it was Gruber about this, and he said that he had seen a lot of the same. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m curious, you know, if the listeners find that the iPad Pros are all so much grippier.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like Marco, have you noticed this with things other than power cables or have you only really plugged in power cables so far?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, this is just what USB-C feels like. You know, USB-C is, it takes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more effort to pull out the cable than lightning and than most cables when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cables are new. Over time, the cable ends, like the pins inside of them, do wear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down and get easier to pull out, often to a fault where they stop making good connections and you have to replace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cable, or at least turn it around if it’s a C2C cable. But that is a thing that happens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they do start out really tight.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I haven’t ever noticed my Switch,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my GoPro, or my MacBook Adorable, all of which are USB-C, I’ve never noticed them grip

⏹️ ▶️ Casey onto something nearly as much as iPad Pro has. And it was striking how much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a difference it was with the same dongles, because I use that same digital AV adapter with my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook, and the MacBook’s barely holding onto it. And again, it’s a year older, so your point

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is fair, Marco. I can’t verbalize how strong a hold this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing had on my dongle. This is going nowhere

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John good. Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s another thing about things being hard to pull out. It just encourages kids to pull by the cord even more.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because it is hard to pull out and because they’re kids and have no patience, like any chance I had of them

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to get them to pull any cord out by the stiff part of the connector, which is the correct way you should do it, people who are

⏹️ ▶️ John destroying your cords, they’re like, forget it. They’ve just totally abandoned any pretense of ever trying to do that. And with MagSafe,

⏹️ ▶️ John you could basically yank by the cord because you just learned to just kind of yank on an angle and it disconnects, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s, you know, they didn’t, they have not destroyed any MagSafe connector

⏹️ ▶️ John that we’ve had in the house, which is quite a feat because they’ve destroyed many, many lightning cables, right? But

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not sure how the USB-C cord is gonna hold up. We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, thanks to our sponsors this week, Fracture, Linode, and Change the Terms. and we’ll talk to you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to begin, Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental. John didn’t do any research, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental. And you

⏹️ ▶️ John can find the show notes at ATP.FM And

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse, it’s accidental, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean to

Marco’s a YouTuber now

Chapter Marco's a YouTuber now image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, Marco, you have become Mr. YouTube, my friend. What’s going on here?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco Amaro Yeah, I decided to get back on YouTube and start making more videos.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin How’s recording audio for YouTube these days? Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Amaro Recording it’s not bad. Syncing it was pretty bad the first time. Steve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey McLaughlin So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what happened? Alright, so between the recording of the last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco episode and this one, I released two YouTube videos. They each had their own

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issues. The Mac Mini review came first. That one I had severe audio sync issues,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I’ll tell you why in a minute. But for the most part, otherwise, it was fairly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco decent. I had fewer issues overall than my other video two years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago when I reviewed the first TouchBar MacBook Pro. A few

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technical things that I learned in making these videos. The Mac Mini video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I shot entirely with my iPhone XS. Every bit of video in that is shot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on my iPhone, including the main, like, you know, sit down in front of the camera and talk to it video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which was, which involved a teleprompter. Fancy. It’s not a fancy teleprompter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is a very inexpensive bracket with a reflective piece of glass on top of it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you put an iPad under, and the iPad was not included in the price of the teleprompter. And I was using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Joe Joplinski’s excellent Teleprompt Plus software to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco display the prompts and control them and everything. And because the problem I had with my 2016 MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro video, the biggest problem was that I was basically reading

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off of a keynote presentation running on a laptop that was like next to the camera, down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco below a bit on a table. And so you can see in that video that I’m constantly looking to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stage left, basically, looking down to the left a little bit, because that’s where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my bullet points were that I was reading from. And it was not great, pretty distracting,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not particularly useful. And so I bought the teleprompter right after making that video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it sat in the box for two years. Because I’d never made another video after that until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last week or whatever. So when it came time to make a new video, I decided, you know, great, I will, I’ll do it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right with teleprompter this time. You know, I’ll write out bullet points of what I wanna say and have them actually on the screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and be shooting through it. And that way, you know, I’m looking at the camera while reading

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the text. And that actually worked fairly well for the Mac mini video. The interesting thing is like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco behind the teleprompter is basically like a big black nylon bag that like, you put the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into, so the camera doesn’t see reflections on the back of the teleprompter screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that works fine when it’s a camera lens that you’re sticking in that black bag. It’s really clumsy when it’s an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone because you have to reach into it to see the screen and to push the buttons on the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything. But I wanted to see if I could make the whole video with just my iPhone as the main video, as the only video camera.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And indeed, with the Mac mini video, I did. I didn’t with the iPad video. I’ll get to that in a second.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also decided I wanted to shoot all the B-roll and everything with my iPhone because it’s just easier.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a lot of it was using a stand with a clip on the end of it. Basically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like an iPhone holding clip on the end of a, it’s actually a microphone stand, with a couple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of little screw adapters to make that work. I had the stand so I could put it on the stand and then I can hold the thing and move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it around and get good B-roll with the camera being steady. And then also with the Mac mini video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I took a lot of shots where the camera was moving, like panning around something, and I did most of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using my gimbal, which is another thing I bought two years ago and almost never used. I learned a few

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things in making that first video. Number one, I learned that I really like the app FiLMiC Pro that we talked about before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was very, very nice to have an app that had all the manual video controls readily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco accessible and everything else. And I shot all my B-roll using FiLMiC Pro for the Mac Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco review and it was just fantastic. And I shot the main video as well. One of the things you can do with FiLMiC Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is record video without audio. I figured, well, I’m recording the audio onto my audio recorder.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t need the audio from the video.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the result was that the audio recorder had my audio track,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the video had no audio, and therefore, Final Cut could not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco automatically sync the audio to the video. Now I thought, well, I edit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco podcasts, I know how to sync up audio, it’s no big deal. I’ll sync it up,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll take five minutes, and it’ll be fine. Unfortunately, for whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason, I don’t know why, there was ridiculous drift. And that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, for anybody who doesn’t know, that is basically when the audio basically doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco match the duration of the video, even after you line it up. You’ll have to realign

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it at many different points because it’ll just, you can sync it up at one point, but then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a minute later, it’ll be out of sync. And so you have to like cut it somewhere and then move it around

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s in sync again. And I had ridiculous drift. Again, I don’t know why,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it doesn’t matter. And I tried to sync it up so much and I synced up so many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. And like I think I had in the, I think like eight minute Mac mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video, I think I had like 10 sync positions. It was ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I just couldn’t quite get it right. And that’s why when I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco published the final video, it was just, the audio sync was off. And that’s a huge technical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem with it. It is my one major regret with that video is that the audio sync is not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, if you happen to record the video on the camera with just like, you know, recording off the camera mic, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sounds like garbage, but if you happen to record that with the video and you have an audio track recorded by a nice microphone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or audio recorder somewhere, Final Cut will automatically sync that up with like, you know, you right click on the clips and you say synchronize.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it works seemingly perfectly, which I did on the second video, so I know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now. But yeah, so the audio sync on the Mac Mini video was a mess,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s why, because I didn’t record the audio with the video, because I was using Filmic Pro, and I didn’t record audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for any of the B-roll shots, because I wasn’t gonna use it. I was gonna use the one continuous take of audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from my stand-up shot, even though I was sitting down, but I think they call it a stand-up, and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the B-roll shots are gonna be silent, and I didn’t enable the audio recording before that big long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sit-down shot, and I should have.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that is not fun. And I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a pretty bananas set up for when I do car stuff, which actually coincidentally, I am going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doing that all day tomorrow if all goes according to plan. But one thing I’ve learned is that whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I start recording, this is outside or in a car where there’s a lot of noise typically. Whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I start recording, I start recording the audio, I start recording the video, I walk to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wherever I’m supposed to be or sit down in the car, whatever the case may be. And I clap my hands

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one time, very loudly, to make sure that every audio recording, both the video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey audio and the lavalier audio, hears that clap, so it gives something for Final Cut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to sync against when I go to do the edit. And to your point, when you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do have something like that, when you’ve done the small things you need to do on your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey end to give Final Cut what it needs, It is like freaking magic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how it can put these things together. It is unreal how good a job it can do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But if you don’t give it, you know, that tool, if you don’t give it the audio to sync off of,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then you’re screwed as you, as you now know and have lived through.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey having, having been through a videos with crappy audio, I’m just glad that I am not alone in this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Welcome to the club. And I had, you know, I really wanted my audio to sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. I did you know my first my MacBook Pro video two years ago. I was using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lavalier mic and It was it’s a it was you know a decent prosumer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one the the road Road link wireless and whatever whatever Mike comes with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that and I honestly I hate the road link wireless. It’s Because it’s not a pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wireless setup even though it costs almost as much as one It uses 2.4 gigahertz

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the radio spectrum instead of like one of the TV signal ones that the other ones use.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so there’s just constant interference from everything. Like it’s just not a very good setup. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t want to reuse that, although I did try because the issue with getting good sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of a microphone on video, the microphone matters to some degree, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what matters a lot more is proximity to your mouth. And I’ve told you this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you’re making your videos, like a crappy microphone close to your mouth almost always will sound better or will be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to sound better than a really good microphone like you know, five feet away. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you’re when you’re in a video, you know, you basically only have two options you can you know, if you don’t want some giant mic in the frame,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can either use some kind of lavalier or maybe like some kind of discrete headset thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which usually is not very discreet. And lavaliers have their own challenges to like you know, placement and picking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up you know, any if you move your shirt, if you turn your head at all lavaliers dramatically change the way they sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and dramatically pick you up less or more. So lavaliers have their own issues and they’re also, you know, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can see them. And so if you’re trying to have the microphone not be visible, you can pull some tricks with wardrobe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to try to hide lavaliers, but you don’t always succeed and it’s, it’s tricky. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I tried with the lavalier. I also tried with a,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco um, I have a Sennheiser MKE something 600 maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I bought it two years ago. It’s like a video microphone that’s shotgun style. So I tried

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that up on a boom. I tried it on the camera. It was too far away. The boom got a little closer. The microphone that I’d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be using for the, Oh, I even tried like my awesome podcasting microphone, just like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically boomed above my head, slightly out of frame. What ended up being the best was that Sennheiser MKE,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever on a boom, a little bit out of frame, like basically like above my head pointing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of diagonally down at my mouth. Uh, that, that was by far the best audio, but it still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wasn’t great audio and you know it was still picking up tons from the room.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I tried like you know putting out all my sound dampening panel like I have all this acoustic foam

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because when I bought acoustic foam for the first time like five years ago, you can only buy a certain box

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size and so I have a lot of extra that’s just like normally lives in the basement. So I brought it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upstairs and I basically laid acoustic foam all over the floor of the room. The entire room was covered in acoustic foam

⏹️ ▶️ Marco panels and I so I just you know just trying to just trying to reduce reflections around the room and make it sound less

⏹️ ▶️ Marco echoey so that a microphone that is two feet away from my mouth can actually sound like it’s closer to my mouth

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I succeeded somewhat. I still ended up post-processing the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audio with iZotope to run a little bit of D reverb which helped a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t use too much of it because it starts sounding weird if you use too much of it. It’s kind of artifact-y but I did use a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit of D reverb, a little bit of EQ as well because I’m an audio nerd for podcasting,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so I’m not going to just leave my voice unequaled like an animal and and the combination of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plus a little bit of noise removal, just to get a little bit of you know lower lower the noise for a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made it sound pretty good. I was I was pretty happy with it. It was I wasn’t incredibly happy with it, but I was you know pretty happy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it, even though then of course I totally miss synced it and the audio became the worst thing about the video, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall yeah overall it was It was a bit of an audio adventure to get that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I realized after I was setting this up, and I took a picture and I sent it to you guys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the state of my office to do this video. In order to create the Mac Mini video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I basically had to destroy the rest of my office. Like, there was crap everywhere. And part of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s my fault because I had a lot of crap out just because I was working with a lot of crap during that week. And part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it is just because I had to unload all this video stuff, take it all out of the closet, unbox the teleprompter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco set it all up, have foam panels all over the floor, have lights sitting on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco various things to boost up my light a little bit. It was just a mess. And as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was taking it all down, and after the shoot was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco done, and I figured I had my take, and I reviewed it and it looked pretty good, and I started the edit, and I’m taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all this stuff down, and I’m like, you know, I don’t wanna do videos anymore. This is just,

⏹️ ▶️ John for another two-year break. Yeah. Buy a bunch of stuff right now, put it in the closet, and two years from now

⏹️ ▶️ John you can make some more videos. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I was, this is after the Mac Mini video, so I still made the iPad video after, and I’ll get to that, but so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after, so I’m like, this is just way too invasive. Way too much set up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and tear down. It destroys my office. It’s just so much overhead to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make a video. But then I started editing it, and I’m like, you know, I’m actually kind of happy with how this is turning out. this is actually pretty decent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then I posted it. And when I, when I released it and I did the blog post with it and I, and like, I released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and people loved it. Like it was, it got a very strong reception, way stronger reception

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I thought. And this is for the Mac mini, which, you know, kind of is not that interesting of a product to most people, I think. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was, I was very, I was blown away by the positive reaction of the Mac mini video. And I’m like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco damn it, I should really make more videos, but I need to make it easier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make videos. Like I need some kind of like something I can leave set up or at least

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leave mostly set up. I need, you know, to get better at this, to, you know, to polish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my process a little bit, to improve, to fix the issues like the audio sync I had. Just like I need to get something,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I need to make this easier because I do actually want to do more of this. And also I think professionally,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s a good idea to, you know, to grow my audience in an area that I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one yet. and that area would be YouTube and video and everything. So I decided, fine, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to make this easier. And I talked to Tiff, my wonderful wife, and she suggested rearranging the office

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be more amenable to video. And so we basically moved the furniture around in the office, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco she said, why don’t you just leave the camera, tripod and everything set up? Like, just leave it up. Like, we’ll find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a place to put it in the office. And so we did. So we like turned the whole office sideways,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rearranged this whole midsection of the room, and made myself a video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco set, basically. And that’s what you see in the iPad video. Now I can actually make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a video with way less setup and way less disruption to the office and then way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less tear down afterwards. What I put in the tripod for the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video setup is one of our Canon 5D Mark IVs. We bought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them a couple years ago. Usually TIFF ends up only using one. Like we bought a pair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the previous 5D Mark IIs, we had a pair and Tiff used two frequently for shoots.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These days, usually she brings the Sony and one 5D Mark II or Mark IV. So we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically have one 5D Mark IV that we don’t use very much. So I mounted that like semi-permanently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as my video camera in the tripod. Works way better with a teleprompter. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a nice lens for it that’s good for video, nice 24-70. So I’m like, all right, try number two,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad video. I’m still shooting all the B-roll with my iPhone because it’s just better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and easier. But now I will set up the Canon, and it’s nice too, because the Canon,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a little tiny external monitor. Big shout out to the company Neewer, I think it’s pronounced,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco N-E-E-W-E-R. Neewer produces a bunch of cheap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video gear, and it’s not that bad. In some cases, I would even go as far as to say it’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, they make a bunch of gear that is surprisingly cheap.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so one of the things I wanted to do was like, I want more permanent lights. Like the lights I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used for the iPad, I have two little lights for the iPad mini video, both newer lights, but they are battery powered only.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And batteries are a pain. And charging batteries and managing and swapping batteries is a pain. And so I was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know what, I wanna just get two lights I can have on sticks, you know, on light stands, that can just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plug into the wall. And I can just leave them plugged into the wall most of the time. And when I want to do a video, I could turn them on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Neewer sells a two-pack for like 150 bucks of these wonderful LED

⏹️ ▶️ Marco light panels that can turn between cool and warm color temperature. You can adjust on the back,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because basically it’s like a panel of alternating white and yellow LEDs. So you’re basically adjusting the brightness of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either the whites or the yellows, and you can achieve all different color temperatures. And they’re super bright. And it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only 150 bucks for two of them with stands and AC adapters. And when I looked at ProLites,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was like $400 for that kind of light for just the light without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the stand. Without it’s like, okay, so this is, I’m not, I don’t need a 400 hour light yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not to that point. Hopefully I never get there. So anyway, uh, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got, I got my new newer lights. I got my camera in my fancy video tripod I bought two years ago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I’m just very, very happy with that setup. Now, like it’s easy to turn on, it’s easy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to set up. I do have a couple of issues with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the Canon as the video camera and I don’t know what I’m going to do about this yet I probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should just use the Sony because it’s a way better video camera but I don’t want the Sony to be always tied up in in this setup

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I should probably just tolerate the Canon but the Canon does have a couple of issues that I ran into with the iPad video. Number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one it only records 4k in 29.97

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frames per second which is the old you know, TV standard. The iPhone records, it’s 30 frames

⏹️ ▶️ Marco per second as 30 frames per second, exactly 30 frames per second. So I have a slight frame rate difference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between my two cameras. So whatever I set the final cut project to,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of them has to be like reinterpolated. And so moving around the final cut timeline,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dropping in the clips, previewing them was way slower when I made the iPad video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than when I did all the footage on the phone. and therefore nothing was requiring any kind of frame rate conversion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything like that. So problem number one is the frame rate between my b-roll camera and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Canon can’t match up. At least not if I stick with 4k, which I do want to.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it was the Canon that got interpolated, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe I set the project to 30, but I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John positive. So I’m just looking at the iPad video now and now that you mentioned that one of them has interpolation, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I think it’s when Marco’s talking on the sitting in the chair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the other thing is the Canon video like my tripod wasn’t perfectly level, so the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Canon shot in the chair, I actually had to rotate it slightly, so it’s like one degree rotated.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So don’t judge it on that. And then also, I also learned that, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco movie people are always complaining, that things that claim to shoot or display

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 4k don’t actually display 4,000 pixels across

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 4k encompasses a number of different resolutions, one of which is 4096 across.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is what the Canon shoots. And also and the iPhone shoots at 3840

⏹️ ▶️ Marco across which is I think more common. And so I not only did I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a frame rate difference that was annoying. But then as I’m as I’m playing with like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like the very last clip I inserted the very last b roll clip I inserted, I noticed that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the far left and right sides are these thin red strips of the shot behind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it showing through. And I realized, oh crap!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I looked back and every single one of my b-roll clips didn’t quite fill the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frame that the Canon made. So I had to go through and basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco zoom every b-roll clip by like you know 5% or something and then make sure it fit like a you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pan it slightly to make sure it fits, you know, make sure nothing’s weird getting cut off and everything. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also the Canon only records video at 4k

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in motion JPEG, which means that a, you know, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the like the 9 minute or 10 minute raw file of that shot was like 60 gigs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and took Final Cut a very long time to render at full resolution like in the preview window.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it also takes a long time to pull off of SD cards and everything. And so it’s just like working with the Canon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the video camera is cumbersome and I’m going to have to do something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the frame rate issue. I think if I want that to, you know, to be a thing I’m gonna keep doing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I don’t know. The camera situation I might change. I mean maybe I’ll get like a cheap Sony to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco put in there that’s not like a super high-end one or something because it doesn’t need to be for my purposes. I don’t know. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somehow the camera thing might change. which otherwise I’m otherwise very, very happy with this setup. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad video, I had a similar audio set up. People keep asking me about my audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the iPad one sounds pretty good actually. What I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did for that was very similar. It’s a boom mic. I went, so there’s this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wonderful YouTube channel by a guy called Curtis Judd

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with two 2Ds on the end of Judd and he does all sorts of tutorial videos and reviews

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of camera, lighting gear and audio stuff for video. And I’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watching his videos for a while. I’ve learned a lot from them and I went and bought his mic that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he uses for this purpose, which is the Audio Technica AT4053B. It’s like $600.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So this is not something I can recommend to everybody. It’s a hypercardioid mic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a shotgun, which he recommends for indoor dialogue, better than a shotgun, which for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco his reasoning and seeing his videos makes sense. It’s a little bit better. I did still have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do post-processing with isotope to reduce the reverb a little bit and to denoise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit because it is still, you know, a good foot and a half from my mouth. But one of the good things about using the Canon as the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of using my iPhone is that when I was, when I was shooting with the iPhone for the Mac mini video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I very quickly learned that the almost all the video I shot with the two X lens was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just too noisy to use. And if I apply a hell of a lot more light, maybe that can be different,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I was able to use almost none of it because it was just the 2x lens has such a has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a narrower aperture and is smaller pixels. And so it’s so much noisier than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the video shot with a wide lens. So I ended up I think the Mac mini video I think all of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone video I have for that. I think it all was with the wide lens or at least the vast majority of it as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an as and the like the sit down shot where I’m talking is also using the wide lens as far as I remember.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The problem is that if you have a boom mic that needs to be as close to your mouth as possible, so just barely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of frame. If you have a wide perspective, it has to be much further from your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco head than if you have a zoomed in perspective with a with a closer zoom lens.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the closer you’re willing to zoom that lens in the closer you can get the mic to the to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you before it’s in the frame. And so I wanted, one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the reasons I switched to the Canon for the next video was this. And I’m not gonna switch back to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone because even the 45 millimeter-ish lens on the iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so noisy and it’s so awkward to use that inside the teleprompter. I’m not a big fan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that. So I do want to stick with a long perspective here, but somebody pointed out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s one of the reasons the audio was so much better in the iPad video. Not only was it in sync properly, I recorded on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera and synced to it. But also, the microphone was able to be a lot closer to me. And it was a better microphone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But honestly, the distance made a bigger difference than the microphone did.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In ATP tradition, I think John and I need to critique the videos. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I’d prefer to focus on the iPad video. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was really good, but you suffered… Over the course of these two videos,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’ve suffered the same exact problems that I have, although you have also accelerated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably even quicker than I have in fixing them. In the first video, as you discussed, the audio was not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In the second video, I think the framing is great. I like the way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it looks aesthetically. I think you had a lot of B-roll, which was good. I think you and I both need to talk less,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but you have not yet solved the problem that I am getting better at solving, but have also not solved, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is being more effusive on camera and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being more over the top. And I’m still not great at it by any stretch, but it’s taken me,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what, four videos to get to the point that I’m not, I don’t think it’s a problem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me anymore, but I definitely think I have room to grow. And hearing you talk about having a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey teleprompter and all that, I almost wonder if having a teleprompter if it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more than bullets and you had previously meant said it was just bullets for one of the videos uh if it is more than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bullets i wonder if that’s kind of letting you down and and if it is just bullets and you just need to crank

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up the silly or maybe not silly isn’t the right word for it but crank up the the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco emm yeah the humanity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i you weren’t being a robot but you were way more robotic than i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know you to be and that’s because again having just been there It’s very awkward,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even in your own house. It’s very awkward to be enthusiastic. I mean, look at me when I did my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey voiceover stuff for my first few, and actually even the most recent video, I think my voiceovers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aren’t quite as energetic as my other stuff because I am doing it in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the house oftentimes at night, oftentimes when the kids

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sleeping. Your voiceover is like not trying to wake

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey up your kid. Exactly, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hey, I really love this car.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re exactly right. And so the problem is, even if you recognize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, which it sounds like you already did recognize it, it is a hard thing to fix. It just takes time. But that is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only thing that I was let down by. I mean, the audio stuff, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It could be fixed and you did fix it. But you need to, just like me, you need to be less of a robot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it’s something I’m working on, and I’m sure it’s something that you’re going to work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on too. And for clarification, and so like what was on the teleprompter? It was some bullet points, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was also some like complete sentences that I wanted to say, just like, you know, like, so I remember like good wording

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I wanted to say. One of the key differences between the two is that when I was doing the Mac mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video, I did a lot more takes of that, of like, of my sit down,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, basically whenever there was a, whenever there’s a B roll shot in the Mac mini video, chances are what you’re coming back to after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is a different take.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that’s like, you know, use the B roll to hide the transition. Because with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Mac mini video, I had much, I had more four of the sentences fully written out, and I had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the teleprompter automatically just going at a fixed speed, and I couldn’t adjust it during the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shots. So I ended up having to tweak a lot, like having to add

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new lines between things, or pat things out or slow things down so it would match the rate that I was actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ended up saying it. I adjusted the speed in the app, because you can adjust

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the speed, but it’s still like a fixed speed if you’re doing it that way. For the iPad video,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the second one, I took out of its box. I went in my closet found the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pile of things about two years ago and took out of its box the bluetooth foot page

⏹️ ▶️ Marco turner thing. It’s literally it’s like a it’s like a rectangle you put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the floor. It’s kind of like a guitar effects pedal. You know it’s a box you put on the floor with two buttons on it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can map those two buttons to whatever you want them to do in the teleprompter app for the ipad video.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had I was only using of them, but I had it basically be a play pause for the scrolling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the teleprompter. So at any point I could just pause it if I needed more time on something and then unpause it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that helped a lot with being able to deliver things a little more smoothly. And it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco allowed me to riff more on certain things because I could just pause it and riff for a second

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then unpause it and it would resume instead of having to try to keep up with, oh, I’m about to miss it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I better keep going.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For me, I haven’t yet really scripted any of my videos. That being said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tomorrow I’m going to attempt to record with actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two cars and basically drive two hours, record with two cars,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then drive home. I basically have one day to get all this done. Because of that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve driven both of these cars a little bit in the past, and so I’ve put together an actual verbatim

⏹️ ▶️ Casey intro and conclusion, which I think was useful to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the flow of what I’m trying to say out of my head. But ultimately,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I briefly looked into doing a teleprompter kind of thing. And what I think I’m just going to do is just read it right before I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey record it and just kind of wing it, which in past videos, I just kind of think about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I want to say and I do like 15 takes. And eventually I find one that I think is pretty decent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the whole way through. And occasionally, you know, like you said, once or twice I’ve swapped between takes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using B-roll. But generally speaking, if it’s, you know, me outside of the car, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the intro and conclusion, I’ll just do one shot, maybe 15 times, but I’ll do one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shot start to finish. And so I’m very interested to see how this goes tomorrow because I’ve put

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot more planning into this than any of the others I’ve ever done. But I don’t know if that’s going to be for the best

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or for the worst. So we shall see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would also say too, I don’t think you would have much use for a teleprompter because I can’t imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would work very well outdoors. And you tend to do all of your standups outdoors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I can’t see that being a thing. You need somebody holding up giant cue cards

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey flipping them over.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly. All right, John, what did you think?

⏹️ ▶️ John The same comments I always have on all these videos. More B-roll, less you. I don’t need to see you, I

⏹️ ▶️ John need to see the iPads and the Mac mini. You did have tons of B-roll as compared to your previous one, which

⏹️ ▶️ John is good, big upgrade, especially on the Mac Mini or whatever. But when you’re talking, I don’t need to see you talking.

⏹️ ▶️ John Talk and show me the thing that you’re telling me. And it was like, I had the moment that I always have in all these videos, all of Casey’s

⏹️ ▶️ John and all of yours. The one that sticks out to me the most is when you were talking about how

⏹️ ▶️ John apps don’t fill the 12.9 inch iPad. They look awkward because the screen is

⏹️ ▶️ John so big, right? When you were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco describing that? That was the one thing. As I was editing, I’m like, you know, should have B-roll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John of this. You really should. And I was like,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t tell me that and don’t show me an app. Show me what you, it’s a thing that we can’t do on podcasts, right? You have to describe

⏹️ ▶️ John it with your mouth words, right? But on video, you can finally, I was like, finally, I’m going to get to see the awkward

⏹️ ▶️ John app layouts that he’s talking about. Nope, didn’t get to see him. Just got to look at you. I think you might’ve also missed focus on yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John when you’re sitting in that chair. It seems to really like the high contrast, the paper dog thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I was in focus, but I, because I, I, I may, I was in manual focus mode and I,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had to sit in the chair first and I focused properly on her, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe you’re leaning forward or back more, but your, your eye, your eyeballs look soft as compared to the, the nose of

⏹️ ▶️ John the, of the fake

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dog. Yeah. I mean, and that could have also been just like, it could have either been lighting or it could have been a result of,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the, of the rotation of the video that I had to do with everything. Who knows?

⏹️ ▶️ John The whole idea, both of you, that you have to have a single take standup, like forget about that. You don’t need

⏹️ ▶️ John that. Like you can have cutaways in your standup. You can slice and dice your standup into 12 pieces.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it does not need to be one continuous shot. Don’t put this pressure on yourself to perform the soliloquy

⏹️ ▶️ John in a single take and doing it 15 times. Like again, just watch some other people’s videos. Like yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John we see them, we see their face. We know it’s them. We get to know the face, but very briefly. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s off to whatever it is that we’re talking about. And this person is still talking. Like maybe they did the full standup when

⏹️ ▶️ John they were there, but once I get the idea of you’re in a chair and you have a dog and you’re talking about a

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, move on pretty quickly from that. I thought that most of

⏹️ ▶️ John the B-roll worked really well. Like for the most part, you were showing me relevant things that

⏹️ ▶️ John like what I wanted to see. I liked the

⏹️ ▶️ John action shots, the here you are using your iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ John doing a thing in various environments, whether you’re sitting on the couch or typing out in the kitchen or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John where we don’t have to hear the audio from that because you’re just doing the voiceover. I like the part where the hops licks your arm.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That was not planned.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, you can’t, you shouldn’t be planned for it because the hops licking you is not a,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, an infrequent occurrence, but that was very cute. Um, I

⏹️ ▶️ John do wonder, uh, if hops is getting adequately compensated for his

⏹️ ▶️ John performance work. He’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a part

⏹️ ▶️ John of the Screen Actors Guild. Hope you’re at least paying him scale. He’s a very important

⏹️ ▶️ John star of these shows. I noticed your little family dolls. I don’t think I’ve seen them in real life, the little dolls

⏹️ ▶️ John of your family that you’ve got on the chair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’ve been on that chair for about three years.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John cute. I did notice also that you had to rearrange the room. Like I didn’t realize it was for the purposes of the video. I thought,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, I guess they just rearranged their room at some point since last time I was there, but it makes sense now. So you rearranged it for

⏹️ ▶️ John the video. In terms of, you know, you’re gonna rearrange it for video.

⏹️ ▶️ John You sitting in a chair is fine and casual and looks nice, but I think there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John reason that most of the little set type things that technology

⏹️ ▶️ John YouTubers have involve some kind of a desk or flat surface where you can put down and talk about the

⏹️ ▶️ John things that you’re messing with. And maybe even like Stephen Hackett have a camera up above the thing. So you can have

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of a, it doesn’t all have to be B-roll. It can be now switch to the overhead camera

⏹️ ▶️ John and you continue to talk about the thing that you’re manipulating in your hand, but I get to see it from above. Anyway, those are all just

⏹️ ▶️ John vague thoughts, but in general, more B-roll. Oh, yeah, the audio sync thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John that was brutal. Like, I don’t know what you can do about it. Like, the ship has sailed, but lesson

⏹️ ▶️ John learned. But it really makes it very difficult to watch the video, because you’re like, is something wrong with my computer?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, is this video lagging? Is this some sort of problem with the HTML5 video player? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, no, it’s just out of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sync. Yeah, and there were a number of good excuses for why some of the things you just mentioned are the way they are or were.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, like with the Mac Mini thing, like I had a pretty firm deadline

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like the Apple review embargo. I wanted to hit it, because it was like this is the first time they’ve given me review

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hardware. I wanted to really do it right. Of course, I’d had audio sync issues, but I’m like, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanted to really make sure, like I woke up at six in the morning to make sure I hit that embargo, like to hit publish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything, like, and I really wanted to do it right. So I had that kind of hard deadline

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there and then with the iPad one we were going out of town for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the weekend and we were leaving like I literally like I hit publish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the video about fifteen minutes before we left and I drove for two hours like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I didn’t see any of the feedback is bold for like two hours afterwards,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because like we were like we just you know we we had a trip plan. We were We were going to Philly for the weekend, and we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were like, oh, this is when we’re going. And part of the reason why there wasn’t B-roll showing how the apps are too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wide on the 12.9 is because I had thought of that as I was editing. I’m like, I just don’t have time. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wish I would put this B-roll in, but like, I’m publishing this video in the next hour.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I just don’t have time for that. And so part of it is like, yeah, I had this deadline. But also like looking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back, I’m like, I’m glad I had, oh, and also like, yes, I could have waited and published it like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe yesterday, but I wanted to get this video out while it was still iPad launch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week. I wanted it to be reasonably current. I thought it was, it ended up being kind of a good thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I only had a very small amount of time to do it in because ultimately I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would have, I probably would have even done a whole different set of takes for the main standup because there were things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the main standup, like I’m holding the 12 and iPad upside down, which is very obvious when you watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. And there’s stuff like that. If I had more time, I would have reshot that whole thing just to fix stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I didn’t. And so I’m like, well, I gotta just use what I got and just go with it. And there’s some value to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having that kind of pressure because otherwise, I would be closer to a perfectionist and just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to reshoot everything, do everything exactly perfectly, and it would take way too long,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then I would say I’m never doing a video again. You know? And then I’d put all this stuff back in the closet for two years. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s actually kind of nice to have those deadlines and to have something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco firmly come by and say, whatever you have now, you just gotta ship it. So that was very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice. And then I do agree with you that I don’t have the ideal furniture for this. The way we created

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this video set was basically rearranging the furniture we already had. But long-term,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do agree with you that some kind of desk or table in front of me, and maybe I could be at standing height, would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be probably better. That’s a much bigger operation than just moving the stuff in the room around.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s probably further in the future.

⏹️ ▶️ John Time constraints are good, but if you have to funnel your perfectionism into something, I wouldn’t do it on like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, more takes and more perfecting the shots that you have. I would concentrate the perfectionism on kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John the, the Pixar brain trust type thing, where they spend tons and tons of time

⏹️ ▶️ John when things are in storyboard, where it’s just a bunch of like sketches up on pieces of paper up on a big board, because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like spending all your time there, rearranging that. And then, and then even if your execution, once

⏹️ ▶️ John you finally come out with the way it’s gonna be done, once you have all the shots laid out, then if your execution is not great because you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a lot of time, fine. It’s much better to invest the time into getting the correct flow of

⏹️ ▶️ John shots and script and then executing in a mediocre whatever way that you get better at

⏹️ ▶️ John than perfectly executing a series of shots that don’t flow the way, you know

⏹️ ▶️ John what I mean? Like the more important, the harder thing to get right is the general

⏹️ ▶️ John script and structure of shots. Yeah. Less the execution of them. because it, you know, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John like, we don’t care how beautifully framed and how nice we can see you sitting on the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco chairs are,

⏹️ ▶️ John and we do wanna see the products, but you’re gonna see them enough if you do your job well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Even the noisy video, like it may bother you that it’s noisy, but like, just getting

⏹️ ▶️ John the shot sequence and the script right is so much more important than the individual shots, so that would, if you do end up having time,

⏹️ ▶️ John more time, the next time you do a video, that’s where I would invest it because honestly, the audio

⏹️ ▶️ John and video quality is plenty good enough for YouTube already. You’re not gonna, you’re gonna get most of

⏹️ ▶️ John the value of making the video better, figuring out the chunkier stuff than

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco details of execution. Oh sure, and you know, the script writing takes way more time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the actual video. Figuring out what to say and how to say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is, that took the vast majority of the time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the overall production of these videos.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wonder if people, if other technology channels even write scripts. It seems to me that a lot of them are just winging it. You just kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John get used to it and you just kind of like go in there and you say a bunch of stuff and then you sort of make the video and the edit,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco again, if you’re not on camera,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re not on camera and not expected to do a continuous take stand up and you’re just seeing someone’s hands anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John just talk about the thing that you’ve got. Say all the stuff you want to say about it. If there’s a particular turn of phrase you

⏹️ ▶️ John want to say, have that on a note card somewhere you can look at. But in general, like when I watch these technology videos, I’m thinking,

⏹️ ▶️ John nobody scripted this. They just sat down in front of the camera and they talked about it for a while. And then they cut it together

⏹️ ▶️ John and cut out the boring parts and spliced it together and maybe did one additional audio recording of a thing they

⏹️ ▶️ John forgot to say and that’s it, they were done. Like, it’s a high bar. I mean, I think it’s more important, unfortunately, for Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John to script it because it’s like, car reviews are more of a structured thing

⏹️ ▶️ John and you can’t really like ramble while you’re driving because there’s, you know, I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John harder for car reviews, but for technology reviews, I think you could just, I mean, you’ve said all the same things about this stuff, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can just get up there and talk about it. And then just, you know, make sure that we’re looking at

⏹️ ▶️ John B-roll or your hands manipulating a device and not your face and your mouth moving, and you can turn

⏹️ ▶️ John that into exactly what you want it to say in post.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s fair. I do intend to get less scripted as I go.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, these I scripted simply because I was brand new at it and I didn’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I wanted to hit certain points and I wanted to be careful on how I worded them. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also didn’t want to miss, I didn’t want to forget something I wanted to say. I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come up with impressions or comments as I was using these devices, and I’d write them down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a big Apple Notes file. And then eventually, I’m like, all right, now I need to compose a video.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’d arrange them and make an outline, make some actual bullet points

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and some actual lines I wanted to say and everything. And I didn’t want to miss anything. I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to forget to say anything, if that makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it does. But in my experience, what ends up happening is there are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two or three things like in an intro or a conclusion that I really, really want to say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I think they’re clever, they’re funny or what have you. And then everything else is a lot more malleable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than I think it is. And as long as I nail the two or three things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I’m really, really entranced with, whatever they may be, everything else just kind of works itself out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s funny like the the part that where I threw the old pencil on the ground that was like I that wasn’t in my script

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or outline. I’m just like I had nowhere to put it And so I’m like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I gotta get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rid of this real fast And so I just kind of like came up with that and people love that like that was like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco favorite moment for a lot Of people in the video.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I guess I’ll start, you know scripting less

⏹️ ▶️ John Let me discourage you and Stephen Hackett. Please stop throwing things on a video. You just you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John break something. It’s very upsetting He’s always throwing stuff in his video. Now you’re doing it. It was a

⏹️ ▶️ John very soft carpet. Don’t throw your hardware. Yeah, yours was less egregious than he threw like the $300

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple book. I remember that that was just thrown his iPads. He’s thrown he’s thrown everything he’s thrown devices

⏹️ ▶️ John on top of each other into the frame of the camera. It’s like stop stop throwing your hardware. It’s expensive. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fragile.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think ultimately my my furniture setup should probably become some kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco table thing. Kind of like like I like what I like what Chase Reeves does our wonderful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco friend Chase Reeves. He does wonderful backpack reviews and stuff on his YouTube channel. And actually I do want to,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mentioned last week, I’ve been on kind of a backpack Odyssey and I do want to do a couple of videos on my backpack

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. Um, and it’s going to be very hard, you know, similar to like how it’s hard for Casey to not just try to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Doug DeMuro. It’s going to be very hard for me to not try to be Chase Reeves cause I’m not chase Reeves and I could never be,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I do want to do stuff like that also. Like it isn’t just going to be like, here’s the newest Apple thing. I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna do a video on the MacBook Air because I don’t have one. Apple didn’t give me one, and I’m not gonna go buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one just for that. So I’m probably not gonna do that, but I do wanna do other things like backpack stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and travel stuff and maybe coffee stuff and other kinds of stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. You did a Demirror intro, you realize, on your iPad Pro review.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never seen a Demirror video, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. Every

⏹️ ▶️ John one of his videos starts like this, ready? This is the new iPad Pro. This is

⏹️ ▶️ John the whatever that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they all start with.

⏹️ ▶️ John with

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Every

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey single one of that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that’s his trick. He’s got he’s got a format and that’s the format, but you unknowingly exactly match the format.

⏹️ ▶️ John Damn it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So now you don’t need to watch a Doug DeMuro video. You just watch my four videos over and over and over

⏹️ ▶️ John again. You don’t you don’t do any DeMuro intros, do you?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, not knowingly. I don’t try

⏹️ ▶️ John to. This is the 2019 Audi A4. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey certainly not knowingly.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is a backpack.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know any backpacks. I can’t insert a name.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, well, just think of me and wish me luck tomorrow as I try to cover two cars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the span of like six hours. Well, I usually have a week.

⏹️ ▶️ John Demiro could do three cars in that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amount of time. He could. He could. I’m not Doug Demiro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but again, like that will probably help you the same way my deadlines helped me. Just don’t crash. Just don’t crash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the car,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey please. Well, the thing is, the problem I have with it is that I think it will help me in the the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey broad, like in, in the, in the, at a macro level, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really scared that I will take all this time and take some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time from a friend of mine to do this and then have nothing good to show for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on the other end, you know, like I’ll learn a lot about how to make these things quicker, but I’m scared. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey won’t have enough to make one good video out of it. So I’m, I’m intending for this one video to be both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cars. I’m not intending to get two videos worth of stuff out of this, but, But I’m scared that I’m gonna spend,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, like six or eight hours, you know, doing all this and then have nothing to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show for it when it’s Final Cut Pro time. So we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see. So make a

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy one. You can always fall back to, I mean, I don’t know how much you’ve done this in other videos, but this seems to me the

⏹️ ▶️ John easier route is you got a bunch of footage and maybe you’ve got a bunch of audio with it. And maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t come out that well, but it has the moments that you wanted in it. But you narrate

⏹️ ▶️ John over footage that already has health has its own audio. So basically, you have the video, and then you have your commenting

⏹️ ▶️ John on the video, and that is the final video. Because if you just present the video as is, like it’s not good,

⏹️ ▶️ John because the shot is blurry, or the camera is shaky, or the audio is bad. So the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey regular car reviews approach of doing things.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but then in the video, you can, in front of your podcast microphone,

⏹️ ▶️ John record a voiceover that explains what’s going on in the video that you couldn’t explain in the moment, but you

⏹️ ▶️ John caught some funny moment, or you showed something, or you’re explaining what is not very apparent on the video

⏹️ ▶️ John and the fact that it’s revealing about the cards or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you can always do that. Yeah. And that is something I’m not above doing. It’s just a matter of,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, what can I do with potentially a second shooter, which is both good and bad,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that makes me even more self-conscious about all the stupid things I’m saying. You know, what can I do with a second

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shooter and a lot more of a plan that I’ve ever had before, but still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of shooting from the hip. So we shall see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will say, dealing with the YouTube back end, it is as bad as everyone says.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One of the things, so I decided, I wanted to make sure, now that I’m taking this more seriously, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanted to make sure that slash Marco Arment, or whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco custom URL scheme, I wanted to make sure I had that. I know that it’s not automatic, or at least, maybe not always automatic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I wanted to make sure I want that. trying to do that trying to figure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out how to do that even is its own little adventure. Then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once I found out how it’s like like I can’t just be slash Marco Armas. I have to be like slash Marco Arma and then add some characters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco afterwards. It wouldn’t let me just take my name and in certain ways my name already works

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it like it’s certain URL formulations. It already works but then they’re not all like this you know slash channel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever ones and it’s like oh you can you can add this you you you just register for this year but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have to only have the thing after your name. I’m like okay, so I tried searching

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everywhere to figure out why does it why is it making me add characters to get my name that is not taken in these other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco places and it turns out. Oh well, that’s because to get just your name, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to be part of the partner program, which is their euphemism for you have ads in your channel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that of course is documented nowhere. It’s like you end of searching you find like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a usenet posting or something and so eventually I learn I have to be a partner.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I go in our how do I become a partner? So I went and signed up and it’s oh I have to sign up for an AdSense account.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Great. So I can’t have a good URL unless I put ads

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on my channel. It’s like I don’t I’m not gonna make money from this in any meaningful way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a long time if ever. So like I’m just like I I’d rather not even have the ads probably you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I can’t be like like a class a youtuber in the features

⏹️ ▶️ Marco set unless I turn on I just want ads, basically. And so I’m like, all right, fine, I’ll turn on ads.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I applied to the AdSense account. I get an email a day later saying, you already

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have an AdSense account, limit one per person. And the one I had is the old one for,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there was like a six month period where Overcast ran Google AdMob ads in the app,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like little banners. I haven’t actually run those ads in the current version of the app for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over a year. dollars in unpaid funds sitting in it. You know, and so I’m like, all right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how do I close that? Because that’s I don’t want to reuse that account. That’s for overcast. It’s a whole different business. It’s a different, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco LLC. Like I just I want a separate one for just me as you know, as a YouTuber. So, okay, how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do I do that? I challenge you to try to find how to close an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco AdSense account. Oh, that’s no surprise. There is a help page on YouTube. It says,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, because in the in the email that you get that says you you have a duplicate account. There’s a link

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Google Help documents that say how to close it. And you can follow every one of those instructions and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that it says are there aren’t there. So it’s like, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it says to go here to this page and then click the button, but the button it says will be there isn’t there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What now? Where is it? Eventually, I think I found like a Quora post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that linked directly to some like customer service form on Google’s site that you could fill out to request

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cancellation of your account, which is linked to seemingly nowhere else. I did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco eventually figure it, fill that out. Like after verifying, like, is this even real? Like, am I getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phished? Like, what is going on here? But it was real. I filled it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out. I got an email like, you know, a day later saying, okay, we’ve canceled your old account. We’ll be sending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you $18 somehow. And then I finally could get my partner program

⏹️ ▶️ Marco approved to the point where it’s now in review. So sometime in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the last, it says it will decide, quote, usually within a month or so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So sometime in the next month or so, I will be approved, I hope,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for monetization that I don’t want, so I can just get the URL I want.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is a total disaster.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is a great time to remind everybody they should go to slash Syracuse.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the spelling is in the theme song for this podcast and you will find my beautiful correct URL

⏹️ ▶️ John for my YouTube channel that I got a long time ago, even though I don’t make videos,

⏹️ ▶️ John because the most important thing you can do with every service is reserve a good URL for yourself.

⏹️ ▶️ John So let this be a lesson to you, Marco. Always reserve a cool URL for yourself, even when you have no plans to make videos.

⏹️ ▶️ John Thanks. And I put up a new video since we last recorded too, by the way.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah? There’s no audio sync issues to speak of. It’s not in 4K because my PS4 only records

⏹️ ▶️ John at 1080p. So sorry about that. Snipes awakening. It doesn’t feature any pictures of

⏹️ ▶️ John me or anything in my house or any products. It’s just all Destiny all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m a little curious, John, like why, so what are these Destiny videos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of? Are these like special events, special achievements you’ve gotten? And I’m curious like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John know,

⏹️ ▶️ John both- Well, you haven’t watched my videos. Why do you have this question? You should just go to my channel and watch all

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco my videos. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watching this now and I don’t know what’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John on. Your view count will be significant.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, right. You’re a single view.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll be a significant contribution. You’ll be lost in the noise in a popular channel, but in my channel, I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John see your view. I’ll be like, oh, look, Marco watched it. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number went up by one. So I am curious, like, you know, why, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re not much of a public sharer in most forms. Why are you posting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these

⏹️ ▶️ John videos? I’m engaged in the Destiny community. They’re all Destiny videos.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like Destiny. And so this is a part of the genius of the PS4

⏹️ ▶️ John as many people have noted in the years since the PS4 has come out, when they introduced the PS4 and it showed that one of the

⏹️ ▶️ John buttons on the controller, the precious controller real estate, had been dedicated to a button

⏹️ ▶️ John simply had the word share under it. Like the share button of all the things you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John put on the controller, a button called share, how dumb is that? What, you will come to regret this, that you

⏹️ ▶️ John wasted a button on the controller face for share. Who the heck is gonna do that? The answer is when you

⏹️ ▶️ John make it, I mean, you put that button on the controller and you make it really easy to share anything

⏹️ ▶️ John cool that has happened. Ooh, crossfades on your console. People

⏹️ ▶️ John use it all the time. And so if I do anything fun or cool or interesting, supercharged

⏹️ ▶️ John on my PS4, I hit the share button and it saves the last

⏹️ ▶️ John configurable amount of video, like so the last 15 minutes of whatever that I’ve done. And then every

⏹️ ▶️ John once in a while I pull that video off and I cut together into some kind of a sequence and I throw it up on

⏹️ ▶️ John YouTube. It’s just a way to share cool things that have happened to me or that I’ve done

⏹️ ▶️ John or that are interesting to me in Destiny. And there’s no way I would do it if it was like there was some kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John burden where I had to like get some sort of recording equipment and premeditate and think

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna record some stuff or whatever. This is just like, I play my PlayStation all the time. I play Destiny a ton.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if something interesting happens, I hit the share button and I save a video. And then every few months

⏹️ ▶️ John I have all this footage and I can put it together and make something out of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So everyone, if you like Destiny, go to slash Syracuse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have no idea what I just watched. It just looks like footage of you playing a video game.

⏹️ ▶️ John You got it, that’s what it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is. Yeah, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not quite as broadly interesting as stuff about Apple hardware.

⏹️ ▶️ John Beep, beep, beep.