Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

290: A Weird Sandwich

Our predictions for next week’s iPhone event, something about HomeKit hubs, and a special post-show Neutral.

Episode Description:

Sponsored by:

  • Creative Selection: An inside account of Apple's creative process.
  • Casper: You can be sure of your purchase with Casper’s 100 night risk-free, sleep-on-it trial.
  • Squarespace: Make your next move. Use code ATP for 10% off your first order.

MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Something about HomeKit
  2. Follow-up: Printers
  3. Follow-up: Wi-Fi routers
  4. PSA: iPhone contracts
  5. Sponsor: Creative Selection
  6. iPhone XS? 🖼️
  7. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  8. iPhone predictions
  9. Event predictions
  10. iPad predictions
  11. Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
  12. Apple Watch Series 4 🖼️
  13. Twitter sucks
  14. #askatp: Backups 101
  15. #askatp: Prepaid iPhone plans
  16. #askatp: “Cheapest” product
  17. Ending theme
  18. Neutral: Casey’s new baby

Something about HomeKit

⏹️ ▶️ John Hi, John You know I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like how the delay gets longer and longer Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m glad it’s not just me. It was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John usually

⏹️ ▶️ John doing things when it’s like I’m just sitting here waiting I’m doing stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What you doing John the way I picture it is somebody says John you take a big deep breath

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hello

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco First I got

⏹️ ▶️ John to like finish what I’m doing and then unmute myself

⏹️ ▶️ John and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Daniel Breslin writes Airport Express home app support is just for Siri integration For example quote

⏹️ ▶️ Casey play the album reputation in the kitchen and dining room quotes. I have no idea what that album is. Don’t blame

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Swift. Oh, okay. That makes sense Hopefully with more features in the future, like a play pause from the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey home app, resume playback as part of automation or something along those lines. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John I should have put this other one first. This is on the topic of what the heck does it mean to have HomeKit support

⏹️ ▶️ John in the Airport Express?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I cut this entire thing out of the show because it was boring.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, then why are people writing in about it?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t know. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guess they listen live?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, you didn’t cut it out, it was in there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, there was a period where we were like, where we were like kind of speculating like, wait, does it mean that it can be a HomeKit hub?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what does it mean to be a HomeKit hub? And we didn’t know what we were talking about. So I cut out the whole thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but the question was asked. We just didn’t have our answer. So here are the answers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s just move on, rather than discuss whether or not we need to move on. Donovan Cannon writes, John brought up the question of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what does it mean for an Airport Express to be a home hub? This should have been first, like you said, John. Just like some smart devices, like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Philips Hue, need a hub, a home hub is a dedicated device to handle all HomeKit-related

⏹️ ▶️ Casey functions. I’m gonna cut

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too. Okay, cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because we’re-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Michael

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Smith. It’s answering a question that we cut

⏹️ ▶️ John from the show. No, the question was in there, just not the answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really don’t care one way or the other, so I’ll let you two duke it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John out.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right, no one cares about HomeKit. It was informative. It was informative to me. This is a really

⏹️ ▶️ John narrow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. What does it mean to be a HomeKit hub in the context of the Airport Express?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Now

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re going to be sentenced to forever get answers to this question because they’re going to be like, 17 shows ago,

⏹️ ▶️ John John, ask what it meant to be a HomeKit hub. I’m here to tell you this is what it means to be a HomeKit hub. We’re going to be told

⏹️ ▶️ John what it means for the Airport Express to be a HomeKit hub for the rest of our lives now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s but it’s hard to get people to even care about HomeKit, let alone what does it mean for the Airport Express

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be a HomeKit?

⏹️ ▶️ John People care about answering a question they heard asked and not answered on this podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the issue here. It has nothing to do with HomeKit or Airport Express.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. Oh my word. All right. I love you too. So let’s start, wink,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with some follow-up. No, okay.

Follow-up: Printers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Michael Smith writes that Handyprint runs on a Mac and serves up AirPrint services to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your network or an attached printer. And Michael says he’s used it for years. We’ll put a link in the show notes. Apparently,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s also something called Printopia. We’ll put a link in the show notes. And also PrinterPro. And guess what? We’ll put a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link in the show notes. And this is within the context of, hey, I want to be able to print via AirPrint to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that maybe does not actually support AirPrint. And so there’s some options for you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you don’t want to spend several hundred dollars on a new printer like I just did.

⏹️ ▶️ John There may be even more of those things. Lots of people writing in to give suggestions for things that could help me

⏹️ ▶️ John print to my printer wirelessly or print from iOS devices. All useful. I was amused

⏹️ ▶️ John that there are so many things that you can run on your Mac that make it a proxy for AirPrint basically.

⏹️ ▶️ John But as with all these cases, printing is never enough. Because if you have a

⏹️ ▶️ John printer thing that also has a scanner, like I was in this mode for a while where everybody could print to it,

⏹️ ▶️ John but to scan you had to unplug it, physically plug it into something else and scan. Like all these things that let you

⏹️ ▶️ John wirelessly print to it, including obviously the AirPrint things, tend not to let you wirelessly scan or wirelessly

⏹️ ▶️ John fax. So it’s always, you know, and if you have to unplug to do those operations, it’s not much

⏹️ ▶️ John of a win. So that’s why I eventually went down to the single computer doing it. That said, I have

⏹️ ▶️ John been looking at printers since your discussion. I’ve looked at the links to the printers that you guys gave last

⏹️ ▶️ John week and Googling around and stuff. I think I’m gonna wait to see what the supported printer list

⏹️ ▶️ John is for Mojave. I don’t think that document is up at Apple side. I should look on. They have like the beta

⏹️ ▶️ John documents right in a separate section. But anyway, once my hobby comes out, I’ll check out that list and maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John shop for something. I still I haven’t done the thing which I really need to do, which is get out of tape measure and make my sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John facsimile printer out of no, not not that kind of facsimile out of a cardboard box that is the

⏹️ ▶️ John dimensions of the printer and put that cardboard box somewhere just to see what is it going to be life to have this thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, if it’s too huge and dominates the room I might have to reconsider but I’m definitely looking at those

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy HP all-in-one laser thingies.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean again I love mine so far although I will say I was scanning something that was physically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey large which I would rather not disclose exactly what it was and it did not even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey come close to fitting on my scanner so I suddenly was longing for Marcos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like 40 inch scanner or whatever it was you said you had.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s 11 by 17 and it’s cheaper than all the the things you guys are talking about. And it comes with a free printer below it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco PA colorful

Follow-up: Wi-Fi routers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Dan Brigland, I’m so sorry, Dan. Dan B. writes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in regards to Marco’s comments on this week’s podcast about Apple not needing to get back into the Wi-Fi router game, there’s one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very strong asset which Apple has, their reputation. I, like many, have placed almost unmitigated trust in Apple to host

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and service my digital life. While I am an evangelist of Eero, and I truly love my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey EeroMesh network, quick aside, they have sponsored the show in the past and will probably be sponsoring it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the future. I have to place trust in a relatively young company, or I’m having to place trust in a relatively

⏹️ ▶️ Casey young company. As you know, my router, or a router, has access to a wealth of information about me and my family.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And whilst I like and respect Eero’s efforts and security standpoint to date, my fear is that if they will be acquired,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey likely by Amazon, since Amazon are fast becoming the latest tech sponge, soaking up smaller companies from time to time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I similarly refuse to use Google’s mesh routers for privacy reasons. You can email Dan.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If on the other hand, Apple were to acquire Eero, I’m sure you’d agree we would all be happy. I think that’s a pretty good point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but okay, so ever since we talked about these routers, we’ve heard from a bunch of people who have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tried all the other systems too. You know, I only have experience with Ubiquiti’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high-end gear, not their mesh gear and Eero’s consumer stuff and then, you know, before that older stuff like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s gear. And so I said during the show like, you know, go Eero if you want that kind of thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I can, you know, we can confirm we’ve all used it. It’s super easy, it performs well etc you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know even though disclosure they are a sponsor but since then everyone else has written

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in saying you know basically vouching for all the other major systems we’ve heard people saying Google’s Wi-Fi

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is awesome you know privacy thing aside okay I know what there are other options we’ve heard people saying that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Netgear is at the Orbi Netgear Orbi is that there’s that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Orbi is awesome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that ubiquity’s Amplify line is awesome like basically we’ve heard, oh and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cisco apparently has one too, like we’ve heard that all the major router manufacturers that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all have these mesh systems, they’re all pretty good. So this is a good argument in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sense that if Eero was the only company making good modern mesh routers that would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a little bit concerning, but they’re pretty much always for the history of wireless routers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been like two to four good brands that you could trust any given time to be decent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it seems like that is still the case now with mesh networks that there are still like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two to four major brands that all make pretty good stuff. So I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re in that bad of a spot. I think if any one of them were to go away, we’d still be okay because by all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco accounts, the other ones are all pretty good too.

⏹️ ▶️ John The ear is the only one that’s really Apple like though, and physical wise,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the Arby’s huge and the other ones are very ugly. Like, I know it doesn’t really mean that

⏹️ ▶️ John much, like who cares if it’s like a little white puck and and who cares if you could turn the little blinking lights off on them. But

⏹️ ▶️ John those are the little things that do make a difference. And we have heard negative reports from almost all the brands you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John listed as well, including Eero. Someone was saying that it uses the network for configuration.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you don’t have internet access, you can’t boot the thing. Although if you don’t have internet access, I’m not sure what good Wi-Fi

⏹️ ▶️ John would be. So there’s something to not recommend all of them as well. But the question

⏹️ ▶️ John is specifically about an advantage that none of these other companies have, which is trusting

⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re not doing anything nefarious with your network data. And I would say secondarily, perhaps security,

⏹️ ▶️ John because Apple is usually pretty good, you know, with their security stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John Google Mesh Router, what are they doing with all the traffic that’s flying through there? Other companies that

⏹️ ▶️ John may or may not currently or be forced to sell that information to get them out of a financial

⏹️ ▶️ John situation. That trust issue would fall into the category of Apple-like in

⏹️ ▶️ John the modern age, where depending on who you are, you may or may not trust Apple more or less than other

⏹️ ▶️ John companies. But presumably, if you use Apple stuff and like them, you put them in a higher

⏹️ ▶️ John category of trust than you would another company whose incentives are not as neatly aligned

⏹️ ▶️ John with yours when it comes to revealing or selling information about what

⏹️ ▶️ John network traffic is flowing through your house.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s scary how much they could know. So it’s a reasonable thing to worry about.

PSA: iPhone contracts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Finally, Kyle Putnam writes, kind of a PSA, and we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see how this turns out next week, but it is something that I’d forgotten about that’s worth noting. Kyle writes, because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the iPhone X launched, quote unquote, late last year, log into your account now to prepay the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey remaining two months on your upgrade installments. Otherwise people are going to risk having a very bad night when they try to preorder the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new phone and find out they can’t. So let me unpack this a little bit. If you recall, the iPhone X wasn’t announced,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I don’t care what the actual dates were, until like October or November or something like that. He couldn’t buy it till November. The point is it was later

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than September. That’s all that really matters for the purpose of this conversation. Well, if you’re on the prepay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plan, they expect you to get 11 or 12 or what have you, uh, payments

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of a year’s worth of iPhone. So what that means is if you bought in October, November, whatever the particular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey date may be, they’re not going to want to let you upgrade until this coming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey October or November. And so in order to get a day one upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the iPhone XS or whatever the crap it’s called which we’ll talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then you’re going to need to give them the money that you sort of kind of owe them I guess really just straight-up owe them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sometime between now and then now I Don’t know if this is true or not. I agree

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with what Kyle’s saying It sounds right to me, but you know your mileage may vary do what you think is best Don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey take financial advice from the three of us But it’s something to consider that if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want a day one iPhone X plus one then you might want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get Yeah, well, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco know. Yeah, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah an iPhone why good point You might want to just check that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out and make sure that you are free and clear on your existing phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just finished a really great book and you should read it too. I have never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said that in five years on this show, but it’s real this time and it’s our sponsor this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week. Creative Selection, Inside Apple’s Design Process During the Golden Age of Steve Jobs. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just came out this week, written by Ken Casienda, who is the former principal engineer of iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco software at Apple. Back then it was called iPhone software, now it’s called iOS, of course. This book is about Ken’s 15

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years working on the software teams for the original versions of Safari and WebKit, the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the iPad. It’s full of stories about how the software was made and why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these products came out as well as they did. It’s a really good inside look at the design process

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at Apple during the Steve Jobs era. I can tell you for sure if you like listening to our show, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will love this book. This is written for our audience. Basically, it’s so good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s even, you know, there’s there’s a lot about it that’s engineering specific, but a lot about it that’s also product design specific.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And he tells it with enough metaphors and explanations that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if someone isn’t a programmer, you can still really enjoy it because he explains things really well. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you are a programmer, you’ll appreciate all the engineering stuff that is also in it, some descriptions of certain algorithms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and certain choices that were made. It’s really a lot about process. It’s how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple goes through demos and how their products really evolve over time, how good ideas rise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the top in the company. really shows a lot about how the company worked under Steve, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco roles of various people like Scott Forstall in the organization, and just what it was like to be an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco engineer during this incredible time. And I really got to tell you, it’s a really good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco book. It’s available in all the formats you might want. There’s also an audiobook read by Ken himself. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco listened to the audiobook and I have the hardcover book and they’re both excellent. The audiobook is very, very well done.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The hardcover book also has tons of illustrations, which are very helpful. So even after I would hear the audio book,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would go look in the hardcover book to see what illustrations I had missed along the way. It’s a great book.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It really, if you listen to the show, you should read this book. And in fact, this is going to be also a homework assignment for you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the listeners. Read this book or listen to the audio book pretty much now. Go get it right now at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is your homework assignment, even though it is a sponsor. We will be talking about this book in probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one or two weeks from now. So if you want to know what we’re talking about, you can see all your buying options

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at Again, strongly recommend it. If you like this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco show, if you care about Apple, if you wanna hear amazing stories about how critical parts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iPhone were developed, read or listen to this book. Creative Selection by Ken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casienda.

iPhone XS?

Chapter iPhone XS? image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco visit or just search for Creative Selection in your bookstore of choice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you will find it. Once again, Creative Selection by Ken Kassianda, highly recommended. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you so much to Creative Selection and to Ken Kassianda for sponsoring the show and writing a really great book.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thursday this past week, a friend of the show, Gary May Rambeau, had made some discoveries

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which were published at 9 to 5 max. So there were two posts that went out on Thursday, the 30th

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of August. The first one, exclusive, this is the iPhone XS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How do you say that without—

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It doesn’t matter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I can tell you Apple is going to say it XS, I guarantee

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can read an iPhone X. I can see the word iPhone and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey letter X, and I can translate that to iPhone X. I genuinely was not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to be funny when I said XS. I’m just looking at the two letters next to each other and I cannot get my brain

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to transfer or transform X to 10 but leave the s alone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just can’t do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s an interesting aspect to that I don’t want to jump ahead here, but These stories

⏹️ ▶️ John seem very sure that that’s the name of the phone which leads me to believe that they got that information from the same source that

⏹️ ▶️ John they got the you know the pictures and stuff but the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John that they don’t show any any content from Apple that shows the name of the new phone

⏹️ ▶️ John makes me think that perhaps the information was from like a URL or a text string or some other thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that where they’re not sure of the capitalization and that leads me to Casey’s inability to pronounce

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Does it help at all? If the S is lowercase?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think it would. They’re probably going to style it. You know, remember like when the 5S came out, they styled the S lowercase

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the first time there so it So it wouldn’t look like SS and it didn’t really matter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when everybody was writing about it. You would still capitalize it. It didn’t stick. They changed their mind. Yeah, because it looks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like iPhone fives, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s all if you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look like iPhone tens, it’s gonna look like iPhone X’s, which is even worse. Like it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m guessing they’re going to style it in their usual way, which is like, you know, put the S in a little box. So it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looks so different that you’re prompted to say iPhone 10 s as two separate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. But when everyone writes about it, they’re all going to write XS right next to each other in both capitals with no space.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So as much as I like a lot of Apple’s products and improvements in recent years, their naming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has not been amazing recently. And so yeah, if this is called the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco XS and everyone’s going to call it XS all year and everyone’s going to make XS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as in like excess water kind of jokes or tennis, like tennis the sport jokes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As in excess

⏹️ ▶️ John water? Is that a common phrase?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Excess water?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I just came from the beach, man. Give me a break.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I just keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seeing in excess like the 80s band.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I yeah, it’s it’s gonna be a bad name, but you know, it will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get over it just like we got over iPhone X being 10 like that’s also a bad name. We got over that. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got over the MacBook. Well, most of us besides three of us have gotten over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the name the Mac, you know, MacBook, you know, we the Apple has tons of weird names. We got over the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Escapes crazy name. Maybe we have it, if we’re still calling it that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But sorry, we got over the name of the MacBook Pro 13-inch with two Thunderbolt ports.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s so bad. All right. So we already—and it’s my fault, but we already got sideways on this. So what happened? So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jeremy Rambo has discovered through means that I don’t believe have been formally disclosed,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but there’s some going theories on it, but has discovered what appear to be two different marketing images

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that surely look to me to be actual Apple marketing images.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of them is of the iPhone XS. I really had to think that through to make sure I got that right. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone XS and something that appears to be larger than the iPhone XS and something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about the Apple Watch. Now I personally think that the Apple Watch One is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more interesting, but I think we should cover the iPhone One first. So what this is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is two iPhone X looking things with a image

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a planet of some form. I’m sorry, Jason and Steven, I don’t know which planet this is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is on it. That makes it kind of look like a hump, which is weird. It almost looks like the profile of a magic mouse actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyways, but it’s two phones stacked on top of each other, one of which to my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eye, and it’s hard to tell, of course, but one of which to my eye looks like a standard iPhone X and the other one looks like something considerably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey larger, but otherwise the same basic form. as an iPhone X.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So it stands to reason that this is the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Y, as Marco dubbed it a few minutes ago, and the iPhone Y Plus, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the next version of the iPhone X, but bigger, just like the 6 Plus was the 6,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did you hear the thing from, I think it was yesterday, where somebody was saying, some connected person was saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the big one is going to be called the 10s max. Yes, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a story on that going around. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s not it doesn’t seem to

⏹️ ▶️ John be as well sourced as this one is. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just I’m hoping that that was like somebody drawing too much from a URL and it was like max

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resolution of the image right like iPhone underscore excess

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John underscore. Yeah, that’s what I’m hoping this is from.

⏹️ ▶️ John It could be the the iPhone math. Remember that from like episode one?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That was so great. Plus, oh man, that was so great. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that so So let’s hope it’s not the iPhone math, or let’s hope it is the iPhone math situation and somebody’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco misreading this because man, iPhone XS Max is such a weird,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s such a mouthful, it’s gonna be mis-said and misheard all the time. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope they have a better name than that. I don’t see why they can’t just do iPhone 10 Plus, 10S Plus, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco None of these names are good. But

⏹️ ▶️ John some are worse than others. So they left out a few things from the description of this. I think the other, two salient

⏹️ ▶️ John other things about this than you know, just a typical phone marketing shot. The first is that

⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re emphasizing in this picture matches what they’re emphasizing in the invitation that went out to press, which is the gold

⏹️ ▶️ John finish of the metal parts on the side. These are both very shiny gold things.

⏹️ ▶️ John And what Apple chooses to put in their glamour product shots very often is like whatever they’re pushing,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the phones come in all sorts of different finishes and colors. And the Apple chooses to highlight one or two

⏹️ ▶️ John of them. And here’s highlighting the gold. can tell what that gold finish is going to look like. It’s going to be very glossy.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s, you know, something to consider and because it matches the invitation. And the second

⏹️ ▶️ John is that this picture shows two phones, not three. And I think this is a hint

⏹️ ▶️ John towards we have this big discussion about the three different rumored sizes of phones, a hint towards how Apple is going

⏹️ ▶️ John to market these. Well, first of all, it could possibly be a hint that there is no third phone and that part of the rumor was wrong. But assuming it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John wrong, it shows that they have they have a photo here of these two phones which

⏹️ ▶️ John are being promoted together because they’re both like tens or whatever you know whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John family they’re in. If there is a third phone it’s not being promoted in a family photo

⏹️ ▶️ John with these other two phones so it’s so much lesser that it doesn’t even deserve to

⏹️ ▶️ John be in a picture with the OLEDs because they get to have the you know infinite black background of space behind this

⏹️ ▶️ John planet and or moon. I also don’t know which one it is, This is probably a moon though.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I find that interesting. First of all, it’s making me doubt that there might not even be a third phone. And second of all, it’s making me

⏹️ ▶️ John think if there is a third phone, it is totally kicked off the stage. And it’ll be interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like when they give this presentation, I was trying to think of what order they’re going to show things in.

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess you have to show the cheap phone first. But if the cheap phone looks

⏹️ ▶️ John and behaves almost exactly like this one, how do you get people excited about this phone? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the new phone and it’s this interesting size that’s in the middle and we probably won’t mention the screen technology

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’ll show you that it has one camera. I guess the only thing you can get excited about that phone is the price. And then presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John you save these phones till after that because these are the better ones. It’s really making me doubt the third

⏹️ ▶️ John phone theory. I don’t know. I haven’t been keeping up on the latest of the rumors, but this picture has really rocked my world

⏹️ ▶️ John because I was figuring like, surely this is a great opportunity to show the three sizes, right? And no, just two

⏹️ ▶️ John phones in this picture. Yeah, I wouldn’t put that much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. I think that this is, obviously we don’t know what the specific

⏹️ ▶️ Casey genesis of this is, like where it came from, what it represents, but it would not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at all surprise me if Apple globbed the OLED phones together as one unit,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be that because they have the same or similar names, because they have any number of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasons to treat them as one. And And then this theoretical kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of odd screen size, LED, LCD, whatever it is, LCD,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other phone is just treated separately. In the same way that like a MacBook is treated separately from a MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro, but they’re all laptops, you know? I think that this, what you’re seeing is exactly that, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you’re reading a little too deeply into it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and also like, you know, the part of the rumor is that the 10

⏹️ ▶️ Marco line will still be using steel as it’s as it’s like outer band material,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey whereas this new cheaper phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going to be using aluminum. And so the aluminum, you know, brushed finish would would look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so different from these. It would be like it would look like a weird sandwich, like it would have like these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two perfect, like glossy gold finishes, which is clearly what they want to emphasize in the marketing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because, you know, it’s an S year. They’re going to do new colors to help people get excited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about it and make it look new even though the external design won’t be new, for one of them at least. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having the two shiny gold things and then sandwiched between them a phone that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a kind of one of their sizes and then has a brushed aluminum side

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also can’t depict this picture with those deep black levels as the rest of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can, it would just look weird I think. So I think this I wouldn’t read anything into this image,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, about the third phone, you know, confirming or denying either way. It’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a an image that is used just to show off the new tens and their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new color.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. So that’s bringing me into my second thing of how how do you talk about the other phone assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John there is a third phone? How do you talk about it? And where do you slot it in the order? Because you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to have something nice and interesting to say about it. If you included it with all the other phones and if they all were the same materials

⏹️ ▶️ John and finishes and you could show them together that excuses you from having to go into depth about them you just say look

⏹️ ▶️ John here are the phones they’re all like this they all have these features and it’s you know good better best small the enlarger

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever but if you’re going to talk about that phone separately do you talk about that phone first or

⏹️ ▶️ John after these phones I think

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey probably first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey absolutely first you absolutely do it first because you say look we’re moving the tech from the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 10 because that’s the only notch phone that exists at this moment in the presentation. We’re moving the tech

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from the iPhone 10.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People love the iPhone 10 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco found a way to bring it to everybody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey blah blah blah. Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey like that. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah and so what’s your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big capita that is it

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco price slide? I get well cuz like so I mean one one big unknown that I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like what’s the pitch here besides price for that phone because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John with the previous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey generation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like with with the iPhone 10 and then the 8 and 8 plus the 10 had these like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bold controversial new things it had face ID instead of touch ID so you lost touch ID you had to rely on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this new thing called face ID which was different not quite as good in certain ways it also had the notch which was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know very controversial when it came out a lot of people so basically a lot of people said you know what I don’t want to deal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with this new stuff I want to keep the old stuff it worked great for me I want to keep doing it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’ll buy by the Aider A+. With this phone, they’re getting rid of the, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like the old stuff better angle, because it’s taking on Face ID and the notch, apparently,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the rumors. So, the only thing left to distinguish it from the X

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is price. And so, of course, they’re gonna do stuff like, cut the camera, make the cheaper

⏹️ ▶️ Marco body material, stuff like that. But I wonder, what else are they gonna do, as we discussed last episode? Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have to somehow justify the price of the X being different and higher

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than this new six inch whatever plus phone, but at the same time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A, get people excited about the plus phone, B, the plus phone also is at the price

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point that only one year ago and before, you could buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the current tech, the best tech. And if you look at the 8 and 8 Plus, they have the current

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tech and the best tech in almost every way, especially the 8 Plus. The difference in the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between the 8 Plus and the X is very small. And there’s very few other differences

⏹️ ▶️ Marco besides Face ID and the edge-to-edge thing. And so now, how the heck are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they going to make this cheaper phone be worth its

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still high price, but differentiated enough from the X and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco XS Max Plus, whatever it is? That’s a big question for

⏹️ ▶️ John me. Yeah, I think your pitch before about we’ve brought the 10 technology to the masses is

⏹️ ▶️ John probably the way they’ll go for it if it’s slotted in the beginning. And speaking of rumors of weird names,

⏹️ ▶️ John that actually is a thing that could be used to make this seem interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John and more attractive merely by giving it a new name. Like the rumor was that it was going to be 10 are like

⏹️ ▶️ John a lowercase R after the 10. I have no idea what these, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the tenor, obviously.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Or I think the rumor was actually just that it was going to have a surprising name or something

⏹️ ▶️ John like that. Anyway, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really not gonna be called the iPhone 9. That’s not gonna use that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that would be the obvious thing, right? But but as I’m saying giving it a different naming scheme kind of like the SE

⏹️ ▶️ John where like that was a new a new line And you’re naming like you’ve got the numbered ones You’ve got the ten ones and this

⏹️ ▶️ John if you gave this one a third Line like now it’s the 10 ours or the our models or

⏹️ ▶️ John they call the 10 SE or who knows whatever That’s one way you could make it seem interesting because they’re like this isn’t just a cheaper phone

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the beginning of a new line of cheaper phones Never mind that Apple changes its mind from year to year and whatever the heck is the best thing

⏹️ ▶️ John for that year. It doesn’t seem particularly dedicated to any naming or branding or sizing or marketing

⏹️ ▶️ John theme or product line theme for its phones. It just does what makes sense from year to year. But

⏹️ ▶️ John having a different name and making it be like a democratized version of the technology from the X,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think you can follow that up with, and now here are the real Xs and they’re gold and it still holds together as a presentation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, it seems very obvious to me that it’s what Marco initially said, you know, we want we,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all this cool technology and they would pitch it in a much better way than I’m about to, but it’s all this cool technology that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used to be exclusive and only for super, super rich people is now available to all of you, the regular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rich people, you know, like, you know, it’s, we’re bringing it down market, you know, it’s like the, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the halo car that you’ve been talking about for so long, John, you know, that, that, that we had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the the Halo car iPhone 10. Now that tech is moving downstream, and you can have it too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But we want you to not have to pay an obscene price for it. So you’re not going to get two cameras because because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s too much money. You’re not going to get the OLED screen because it’s too much money. But look at we’ve made some great compromises on your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey behalf, and you’ll love it. Oh, and by the way, here’s the iPhone Y and it’s even better. So give us all your money.

⏹️ ▶️ John It might be lighter than 10 to for aluminum versus steel, which might be a reasonable selling point.

⏹️ ▶️ John Also, it’ll come in more colors.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s that that is actually very interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was thinking that they would give it in less colors just to punish you for buying The cheap phone, but we’ll see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I don’t understand Apple’s color strategy Like if it were up to me I would I would assume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you would want colors to be a premium thing Especially like in an S year where there’s new like I would I would want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most color choice in the highest-end products

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not classy enough I mean look at this year is the gold phone year. I have someone

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t see them saying also bumblebee yellow. It was annoying me like when the when the 5c the 5c got all the

⏹️ ▶️ John good colors like I still see if you ever see like a white 5c even though that’s not an

⏹️ ▶️ John exciting color white 5c look cool right the yellow ones look cool they all and if you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John seen like the the product red versions of the the phones those look pretty good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like yeah the product red 8 and 8 plus look fantastic but I didn’t want to get it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know not only was it a half cycle, but like, it wasn’t the iPhone X. I like the iPhone X. Like, why isn’t the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco best phone available in the best colors?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, I mean, it’s make a robotic core. Like, everyone puts cases on these things, so it doesn’t really matter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know, and I do love my orange case. I gotta say I’m very happy with it.

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iPhone predictions

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like you know, we should we should go into predictions and yet, as with was it last year, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last year there I don’t know if there’s a whole lot to predict. I mean, it seems like we’re getting something that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco same size as the iPhone 10. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So tell me, what is going to be surprising? I mean, it seems like we all agree, and I just don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean the three of us, I mean, we as a community agree, there’s going to be an iPhone Y, if you will, there’ll be an iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Y+, and again, those names are obviously BS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Why do you keep

⏹️ ▶️ John using Y? I’m not following

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the gag with the Y. I made a joke earlier. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you said it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco earlier. Because you made it. Because Casey said X plus one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And no, I like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it. Oh, because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John one bigger, so instead of 11, you’re going Y? All

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right, I get it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now. I was doing some C string pointer arithmetic earlier, so this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey makes sense to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But quick aside, my favorite interview question when I was interviewing for C++ roles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was giving people a short block

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of code that would reverse a string and ask them what the hell it was doing, and it was enjoyable. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey point being that we all agree that it’s an iPhone X

⏹️ ▶️ Casey replacement. There’s something that’s like an iPhone X replacement that’s bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 50-50 on this LCD version of the iPhone X. What else

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is there that you’re expecting, Marco, that you think is interesting?

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco Paret Related to the phones only, right? Because we

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey moved on to that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Steven

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Connelly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, we’re not talking about the launch. Marco Paret Oh, okay. Yeah. Because I was going to say, like, if you look at what is likely and or plausible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to launch from Apple this fall, it’s a hilariously long list. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey we’ll get to that in a little bit. Steven Connelly Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only talking about the phone right now. I’m sorry. Only the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone. Marco Paret Okay. So only the phone and not even counting phone accessories, I think you’re right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, I don’t expect this to be a big year for the phone, but that might just be because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m historically pretty bad at, and I think most of us are, pretty bad at predicting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what kind of cool new tech will be introduced in the S year. Usually the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S years introduce a bunch of cool stuff. Historically they’ve introduced things like Touch ID,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 3D Touch, stuff like that. There’s always cool stuff introduced in the S years. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally it’s stuff that nobody was really predicting or asking for or had any idea, but then you get it and you’re like, oh, that’s cool,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I definitely want that. Sometimes it’s software features that are artificially limited to the new phones, but usually it’s hardware stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kinda tied in, so usually it’s pretty cool. So they’re probably gonna do special camera features, for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instance, something like that, right? But other than that, I don’t have any good imagination for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what other cool tech they’ll introduce for the S generation. because as usual at this time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of year, I’m very happy with my iPhone 10 and I can’t imagine why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would wanna lose $1,200 in two weeks to, or one week, to buy the new phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But what’s gonna happen probably is next week, they’re gonna tell us exactly why I’m gonna lose $1,200 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then all of a sudden just want it on day one and can’t be without it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at this moment, I really can’t think of what those things might be.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they’re maybe a little over subscribed on cool stuff and the 10 generation because you’re right that they usually

⏹️ ▶️ John do introduce the Exciting stuff like the you know, some interesting software hardware synergy

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s enabled by the new power refinement or whatever But the 10 had so much of that like

⏹️ ▶️ John portrait mode and then the portrait mode refinements animoji All those things you can do it like those seem to all

⏹️ ▶️ John come with a 10 Obviously, they’ll all get better this year, but I can imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John something like like, uh, either portrait mode or an emoji, having an enhanced version of that

⏹️ ▶️ John on the S as being a fancier feature, but it’s, but they’re, they’re so old at this point. They’re not like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I mentioned last time I made up something about some three 60 camera thing that use the front and back cameras at the same time.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the type of silly feature that you can imagine being enabled. But I just, I just feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John this year, like everything that the 10 did, they’re just going to do all of that better. And I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John having, I’m also having difficulty coming up with anything other than like just they could just demo stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John like that is enabled by the advances in AR kit that you already would have seen if you went to WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John but now here they are in an actual shipping phone right they have an AR kit thing in that topic for

⏹️ ▶️ John probably not this week not next week but maybe the week after but that’s still out there as a possibility of a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John they can demo but I’m sure Apple will come up with some way to make us think we need this phone

⏹️ ▶️ John but honestly if it just comes in shiny gold and is faster that’s enough reason for most people to get it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, is there any chance that you, Marco, and probably me too are not getting this phone?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s my year for phones, so I’m getting the 10.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, look at you! It would be kind of funny if there was a year that went by that only John got the phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we didn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Could

⏹️ ▶️ John be this year. You know, well, Marco’s gonna get it no matter what. Casey probably doesn’t need it, but…

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am really… I’m having a hard time coming up with reasons to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new phone now having not having any knowledge about it obviously.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I got it. The way it’s better is way better face ID. Be that quicker or more reliable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s the way it’s better. Something hardware related that makes face ID way better.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Well, as I said, all the features that they had already will be better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, no. But to me, like, okay, you can say that the camera will be better, but it’s hard for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me anyway. It’s hard for me to see a tremendous difference between individual adjacent iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years. I look at 3gs pictures I’ve taken and they’re terrible But if you look at the 3gs compared to the 4

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the 4 compared to the 4s generally speaking I personally don’t see a tremendous difference, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera will probably be enough for Marco or me But I think the way we’re gonna get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco will not we but they’ll get Marco is by saying face ID is way way way Better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because it’s either faster more accurate or both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John and I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like touch ID second generation. I’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that yeah, exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John but that’s not you know, like the the S generation didn’t just have or whatever whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John time touch ID second gen came out that wasn’t the only feature it was like in fact that was the type of feature that like

⏹️ ▶️ John got a one sentence mention and only the tech nerds knew about like the distinction between first and second

⏹️ ▶️ John gen touch ID was not a thing that Apple marketed pretty heavily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well they should have like that was like I remember it came out it was announced like a few days before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco XOXO conference one year and then you know XOXO it was one of those years where the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ordering midnight was during XOXO and so I remember standing on the roof

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar at this hotel there and there was somebody with me who had their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco review unit with them and I remember I saw they showed how fast Touch ID was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it blew my mind and I was kind of I’m like I maybe I can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait till I get home to order it when I saw how fast Touch ID was I was like wait did it even work?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did you even do it? Like how the heck is, like, it was so much faster than generation one that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s what really pushed me over the edge. Like, oh my god, I need this phone like yesterday.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so if they make Face ID that much faster, that could be something, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it probably won’t be that much faster after only one year. Because, you know, Touch ID had I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two or three years of it being slow because it got faster on the 6S, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it was the second. I thought it was the second year it came out.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wasn’t the six S that came out on the five S right. So five S six. So yeah, there were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two years. I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know. I’ll have to look it up. My recollection was it wasn’t that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco long.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I remember when face ID first came out last year, I think I

⏹️ ▶️ John recall predicting that it will be harder to make face ID faster than it was to make touch ID faster just

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s a more complicated problem. So yeah, despite the fact that it will surely be faster and better.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not sure the leap will be as big. But I’m not sure that matters, though, because what what

⏹️ ▶️ John what matters for people wanting to buy it or for being a differentiating factor is

⏹️ ▶️ John not the percentage increase in speed or accuracy over last year. It really

⏹️ ▶️ John just matters where that point of diminishing returns is. So touch ID second gen like wow,

⏹️ ▶️ John so much faster, we can notice it. But the real point is that touch ID second and crossed over line from thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like I’m waiting for a little bit to a thing that I never feel like I’m waiting for. And it’s not as if

⏹️ ▶️ John Touch ID, third gen, fourth gen, and fifth gen, you know, cut the speed in half and half and half again,

⏹️ ▶️ John because we were at the point of diminishing returns. Like Touch ID was fast enough. They didn’t spend a lot of time and resources

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to make it twice as fast again and then twice as fast again, because you’ve crossed the threshold. Now with Face ID,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not sure how close we are to that threshold of instantness, because I don’t use this, I don’t have a 10, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John use it every day. I think it probably still feels my guess is that you to 10 users can

⏹️ ▶️ John tell me that it still feels like there is a slight delay, which makes me think there is still a finish line out

⏹️ ▶️ John there of no longer feels like a delay, but I’m not sure how close we are to it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are closer to it than touch ID generation one was like we there is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still a gap there like I would like to face it to be faster, but it’s nowhere near as slow as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touch ID one and it doesn’t fail as often. So you

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like maybe you know if touch id you know got twice as fast if this just got like 50 as

⏹️ ▶️ John fast we might be over the line and then it’s like it’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably yeah i mean i would also i would like for you to to just have like a bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco radius like the main way that it fails for me is angles

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if i if it’s like if i’m picking it up off the table and it starts scanning before it’s like facing me enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or if i’m trying to like you know unlock it while i’m walking or like while it’s in the car dock

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something, you know, like, and there’s like a slight, like I’m a little bit too far out of angle, like I would like to see improvements

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. And I want to see improvements first of all, also to just like angles, like, and we’ll get to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad stuff in hopefully shortly that like, you know, you can’t, right now you can’t have face ID

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if your face is rotated, like if you’re holding the phone sideways, getting out of bed or something like that. So like improvements like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be great. But the actual speed of recognition, like if it’s going to recognize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you at all, it does it fairly quickly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have found that with iOS 12, it has gotten a lot better at those things. I wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say the speed has felt any different to me, but it has felt like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the angles have gotten a lot better than they were before, or at least

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was my experience. And we’ll see if others feel the same when I was 12 really comes out.

Event predictions

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Are we going to see any iPads or should we wait for that?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, I mean, okay, so let’s talk about the scope of this event, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People keep, like, there’s a speculation, and don’t worry, everyone will get to the Apple Watch, it’s very exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s speculation about, like, you know, are there going to be two events? Are there not going to be certain products? Are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they going to be delayed? Are they going to be released by press releases? So here is a list of everything I could think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of, of products that will plausibly or most likely launch this fall.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The iPhone XS, the iPhone XS Plus or Max which is a new form factor which needs more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. The iPhone 9 which is also a new form factor which needs more time. The Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Watch Series 4 which is a new screen size, probably some kind of new sensor, some kind of new health thing, needs a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of time. The iPad Pro with edge to edge screen and face ID, that’s going to be a new form factor,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably in two different sizes, the 10.5 and 12.9 equivalents. Probably new iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro accessories for that weird new new connector that’s on the back of these things. Maybe a Pencil 2 with better battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life. Maybe a smart keyboard update for the new sizes of these things. The AirPower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mat. New AirPods that work with the AirPower Mat and maybe include things like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the water resistance and Always On, Hey Siri, that people talked about earlier. A HomePod software update that introduces

⏹️ ▶️ Marco multiple name timers and can initiate phone calls. Maybe more on the HomePod, maybe a price drop, maybe a new model, who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco knows. The iMac needs an update and has CPUs to do it. The 12-inch MacBook needs an update.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Mac Mini is rumored to get an update, possibly with the new Pro Display. And the MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco replacement, which is an entirely new product. And they have to fit all of this into an event with iOS 12,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watchOS 4, macOS Mojave, some kind of show off of how awesome Siri is, a great AR

⏹️ ▶️ Marco demo that will be useless, a game demo maybe too, some kind of creative app demo if iPads are involved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the new iPad with maybe the new Apple Pencil, a retail update, a health and issues update, Tim Cook talking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very slowly, and maybe a musical guest. All of that has to fit, allegedly, in the September event.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t see it. That’s way too much stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John You could cut enough stuff to make that into an event if you drop the musical guest and if you don’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac. Then you can

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco fit it into a single

⏹️ ▶️ Marco event. Honestly, that’s still really crammed. That’s still a lot. Yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, that’s why people keep thinking it’s going to be two events. I would assume that this one is just devices that run iOS,

⏹️ ▶️ John watchOS, or what the hell is the home thing called? The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco HomePod?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the OS on it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though. Oh, I think it’s Audio OS, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, something like that. Phones, watches, iPads, and AirPower.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s plenty for this event. Right? And then all the new OSes. That’s a gigantic

⏹️ ▶️ John full event. You don’t mention anything about any of the Macs because you have to have a second event to show the MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ John replacement and the Mini, and then everything else is a price

⏹️ ▶️ Marco release or something. I guess. I mean, but like there are enough Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco updates, allegedly, you know, rumored, that that could be its own event.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I mean, and honestly, October,

⏹️ ▶️ John October,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, they probably wouldn’t give the max that kind of event anymore. They would probably give, they’d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably do like, you know, press release kind of things and like, you know, reviewers meeting in the place in New York or something like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it probably be something like that, but still like, there’s so much stuff on the, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, Apple slate for this fall that is either, you know, rumored or very likely to come.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t see how they fit all of this into one giant event, But in any way they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cut it, they’re leaving a lot on the table. And it’s possible that a lot of this stuff isn’t coming this fall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but so much of it has been pretty strongly rumored for it, and the other variables

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem to line up to support it, that I don’t know, man.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a lot. It’s certainly a lot. I’m glad you went through that list, because I had all of that rumbling around in my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey head, but until you enumerated every single line item, it didn’t seem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey insurmountable. But hearing that, that seems insurmountable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t know how they do that in just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one event. And I mean, not to say that you’re wrong, John. I mean, I’m sure that there are ways in which we could make this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know why I keep saying we tonight. I’m sure there are ways that can make this work, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seems really aggressive for sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t forget the Mac Pro trailer. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey right.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’ll be the one more thing. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A man can dream. Am I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Can make a trailer for a computer? They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should make trailers for computers. The one more thing should be the Mac Mini update. That would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John be pretty fun.

⏹️ ▶️ John After an entire show talking about watches and iPads and phones, the one more thing is the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Mini.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John the only Mac they talk about is the Mac Mini. Can’t make a product in our lineup, my butt.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, my word. All right, anything other than the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we want to discuss? Because I am actually very excited to talk about the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco watch. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we could talk about any of this stuff. That’s why it’s such a big scope of like what’s…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m going to go on the assumption, because this is such a massive list of things, I’m going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to assume that Jon is right, that basically this event will have nothing about the Mac. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for no other reason, because either A, Mojave isn’t ready yet, which is some things I’ve been,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve been hearing from people, so maybe that’s going to slip to October, and B,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s no room in this event for all this stuff. So there probably is going to be some kind of October Mojave and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Macs release. whether it includes an event or not, we don’t know yet. But, so even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you just say, all right, this is devices that begin with I that don’t end in Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and, or I guess Apple, oh man, this is what a mess. All

⏹️ ▶️ John right, so. I was gonna say, I was gonna say iOS devices, but it doesn’t include the watches. It’s very difficult to categorize these things.

⏹️ ▶️ John Flat glass things. Right, plus air power. With no keyboards.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Except the iPad keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a separate thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, yeah. So anyway.

iPad predictions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The iPad Pro I think is going to be really interesting, whatever they do to that, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is, you know, something about these skinny

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bezel, possibly Face ID kind of things being discovered in software and everything. So it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem pretty strongly signaling that there’s going to be a new iPad of the style of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPhone X. Whether it has a notch, I don’t know. I don’t think it would need a notch, but we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That sounds kind of boring until you think about like, well, what else does that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean? You know, it means things like Face ID has to work in multiple orientations, because I can’t imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them like, you know, putting, having Face ID only work in one orientation on the iPad, that would be really weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then of course, if it did, that would raise the interesting question of which orientation, which I think it should be landscape, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t market it that way, or design the Apple logo on the back that way, so who knows? Then there’s the weird thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about that new connector on the back, what the heck is that? showing up in all these case renderings. You know, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speculated previously, or I did at least, like, I think it’d be really cool if that was some kind of magnetic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pencil attachment and charging point, just like what the Surface

⏹️ ▶️ Marco series of devices does with theirs, because that’s really nice. Like, the big problem with the Apple Pencil is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s never charged and it’s never with you. And this would solve both of those things. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would be great. But it also could be for something else. What if it’s for a new kind of keyboard? What if it’s for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a laptop-style case? Who knows what it’s for, but that’s probably gonna justify some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of event in time, first of all. And second of all, I’m just excited to see what that means. What is that thing? And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I guess that’s probably it on the iPad front. Do you guys have any iPad thoughts?

⏹️ ▶️ John The only thing I’m thinking about is if you make an edge-to-edge or closer-to-edge-to-edge screen or the

⏹️ ▶️ John new form factor for this, it starts to look more and more like what everyone else in the industry is doing

⏹️ ▶️ John with their big tablet-y things in that like the surface or the other things where they have a big thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that is mostly just screen and then a keyboard. And Apple’s, you know, does that with their current keyboard setup, but Apple’s because

⏹️ ▶️ John the keyboard acts as a stand and because, you know, it’s just a little bit different. It starts to look more like

⏹️ ▶️ John you just rip the screen off a laptop, a modern laptop without huge borders around it. So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John wondering if Apple takes this opportunity to rethink how they do their keyboards, like just

⏹️ ▶️ John how they attach and everything. I’m not saying they’re gonna go full like bridge keyboard with a hinge, making yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John a makeshift iOS laptop. But Apple has shown that they’re willing to

⏹️ ▶️ John change around how they do cases and covers from year to year,

⏹️ ▶️ John even when they don’t really need to, like the generation of iPad Pro I have, the one after that,

⏹️ ▶️ John they changed the case. They stopped selling the back case, they just did the front one.

⏹️ ▶️ John This year, what will they do for things that wrap around attached to the iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, with the goal of making the combination of an iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John and a keyboard be more laptop like and less like some sort of weird floppy

⏹️ ▶️ John stand that you have to wrangle attached to your screen. I think that’s that’s one opportunity for them to

⏹️ ▶️ John differentiate these new iPads in the mode that Apple seemed to be pushing them

⏹️ ▶️ John for a while. We’re just like, and attach a keyboard to it and a pencil, and it’s like a creative workstation, but it’s floppy.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, like I really, I would like to see them do so. I’ve heard no rumors about this. I’m just entirely saying what I

⏹️ ▶️ John would like to see. And it’s, it’s a way that these, even though it has nothing to do with like the

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad themselves, it could make these iPads seem even more differentiated

⏹️ ▶️ John and special and more pro focused. If Apple has determined that this is actually what people want.

⏹️ ▶️ John The other possibility is Apple’s determined most people don’t want to attach keyboards to these things. And so don’t even bother showing it attached

⏹️ ▶️ John to it except for in the very end of the presentation when you say, and we have these cool accessories, get a keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, it occurred to me that I can’t remember the last time I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used my iPad for more than like 15 minutes. In fact, I don’t remember the last time it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been charged. Now, admittedly, I’m on the iPad mini from 44 years ago, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, the most recently updated iPad mini. But I just I haven’t used my iPad in a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey long, long time,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey which is I was

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna say send your unused iPads here because we have kids that love them. But then you said it was a mini and nobody wants that crap in

⏹️ ▶️ John his house. My kids using a mini still? I wonder if I tried to give an

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad if I tried to give an iPad mini to my kids I think they would have rejected it they’d be like no I want an

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why are you so mean to me?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean they need the big screen. The worst thing is the worst. My son is he would

⏹️ ▶️ John probably complain because it would be too small and yet every time he watches YouTube he doesn’t maximize the window he just leaves it like he

⏹️ ▶️ John leaves the rest of the YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey UI around

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the video that he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John On his regular, you know, 10-inch iPad. You’re wasting half the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John I should give him his punishment. See, now your whole iPad is the size you used to watch YouTube.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My word. No, I mean, to be fair, I didn’t use my iPads much. You know, I would get them for testing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or I would think I would use them, and then I wouldn’t use them. What changed it for me was the smart keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the iPad Pro and the speakers in the iPad Pro, which that made me now leave

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it out all the time as my kitchen and dining room computer. So it plays podcasts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If I wanna look anything up while I’m cooking or while we’re eating, I can quickly do that. That changed the game.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that took the iPad from something that I would forget about in a drawer for months

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to something that I use every single day.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still use mine every day, and I use it like an iPad. I use it like a Steve Jobs iPad. Portrait orientation,

⏹️ ▶️ John sitting down in a comfy chair. It’s like a magazine with no paper. I read books on it too.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Gary May also found in one of the two images he found a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey genuinely fascinating image of of what appears to be the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Series 4. This looks to me, let me paint you a word picture.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It looks to me to be a little bit thinner, although I wouldn’t say dramatically so. It does look to me to be using

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the same lugs or whatever it is from the bands, sorry, Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It looks to have the same stuff on the sides, the side button and the digital crown.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thankfully, this seemingly cellular Apple Watch does not have a big red blob

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the crown. Instead, it just has a red ring. I still don’t really see why that’s necessary personally,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but be that as it may, it appears to have another hole in between the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey side button and the digital crown, which I can assume

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would be a microphone, but none of that is that terribly interesting other than the red going away.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What’s really fascinating is this display because it appears to be an edge-to-edge display,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight complications on it. Did I read? Nine,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually, if you include what’s in the the kind of clock face itself. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the upper left-hand corner, it appears that a timer was started, and it’s got 14 minutes 59 seconds left.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s an icon for the timer, there’s the readout for the amount of time remaining, and then there’s a little like graph

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or progress indicator in the upper right. It is apparently 72 degrees. The low for the day is 52 degrees,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the high for the is 89 and then the 72 is highlighted in the in the kind of graph in between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the two.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to stop you right there and think that I’m not sure there’s location in California with a low of 52

⏹️ ▶️ John and a high of almost 90. But then again, oh, I bet there is.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You think

⏹️ ▶️ John somewhere in San Francisco is down from 52 to 90? Oh, absolutely.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco That’s a 40 degree

⏹️ ▶️ John swing. I would say somewhere a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little bit north of San

⏹️ ▶️ John Francisco. Maybe. Anyway, all I’m saying is that is a big swing if that’s supposed to be the daily

⏹️ ▶️ John high. I was thinking that they were just showing the, you know, like a range of temperature, but I

⏹️ ▶️ John suppose they like they don’t have to be in high and low, but boy, that’s that’s rough.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You realize Death Valley is in California, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess that’s true. What do you think this? No, that would I would think be even more extreme, like hundred and eleven. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure. But I’m just saying, like, those kinds of swings do exist.

⏹️ ▶️ John Death Valley in January. It was a what do you call it? Marketing photograph

⏹️ ▶️ John created by Apple in California.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So moving through the other corners, then there’s other things to talk about. In the bottom right-hand corner, it appears

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that sunset is at 7.30 p.m. at—God, this watermark

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is obnoxious—9 hours and 21 minutes. In the bottom left,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the UV index is 3.6, whatever the crap that means. Then if you imagine the—

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That

⏹️ ▶️ John was my thought as well. I could have assumed you guys knew. The thing with the UV index, the reason

⏹️ ▶️ John it makes me suspect these progress bars is, what What the hell is the UV index progress bar showing? I guess like blue is

⏹️ ▶️ John good and purple is bad and we’re like almost halfway but not quite. I’m not quite sure

⏹️ ▶️ John what that’s showing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, beats me. But now imagine if you’re looking at a watch, you know, leaving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all the complications aside, you have what’s the term for like the ring Marco where all the hour

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tick marks are in the minute tick marks. Is there a term for that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know when it’s just flat like that. I don’t know that there probably is a term, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey You can talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the indices that are the hour lines and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the ring in which the indices sit well on this particular screenshot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from roughly nine to three, it reads the following

⏹️ ▶️ Casey text 12 PM lunch with Ken bullet tartine, which I’m assuming is a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey restaurant. And that’s actually where the like hour and minute tick marks are,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I could see being annoying, but I think is fricking awesome. Like I think that’s tremendous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it shows you with text, presumably what your next appointment is. And it does it in a way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where you’re, you’ve kind of got that space for free. As someone who has used an analog watch, be well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me rephrase that as someone who has used an analog watch and or analog watch face for most of my life.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know what the differences between nine and 10 and 11 and noon. So I don’t really need all those

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tick marks. Having that data there is so freaking cool, and I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really think that’s awesome And then within the watch face itself because all those complications

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was describing were outside of the ring now within the ring We see it’s Wednesday the 23rd.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We see our three activity rings We see a picture of the globe for reasons I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then on the left hand side We see a musical note with some sort of meter around it which I would assume

⏹️ ▶️ Casey means that they’re playing a song and it’s either almost done or has just started,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey depending on whether it’s counting up or counting down, there is so much data on this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco display. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably volume.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s an interesting point. Maybe you’re right. But either way, there’s so much data on this display.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s so much to read and look at. And in the way that I found,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what is the, is it the modern phase? What’s the one that’s just like hideous to look at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the current one? Modular. That’s what it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco is. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. The, the modular face on the, on the existing watch. I don’t personally care

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for it in almost, and I’ve almost never used it because I just think that it all, all the data kind of blends together

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I just don’t like it. I don’t think it’s good looking. This looks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amazing. And I had zero interest in upgrading my Apple watch because I have a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Series three cellular and I love it. And it doesn’t have battery problems yet. It doesn’t have speed problems yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And in so far, it’s working great. And I had no desire to upgrade it until I saw this image. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now I think I’m screwed.

⏹️ ▶️ John I gotta disagree with your your premise at the very beginning of this briefly is that you said who cares about the

⏹️ ▶️ John form factor. It’s all about what’s on the screen. I care the opposite. I care less about watch faces because they have new watch faces

⏹️ ▶️ John all the time and his watch faces cool, fine, whatever. But it’s it’s a different form. It’s not an Airstream trailer,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a slimmed down Airstream trailer, and to my eye it looks way thinner than the other one. Obviously it’s probably only a few millimeters,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like, when I look at this it looks less like a bubulous computer watch and more like

⏹️ ▶️ John a kind of homely regular watch with a huge screen on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, to be fair, I mean, like, the Apple Watch current thickness, my eyeballing it here, it’s probably about 14

⏹️ ▶️ Marco millimeters, something like that. The picture of this one looks like it’s closer to like 9 or 10,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it could just be a flattering angle, but it It does look noticeably thinner

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and going for it like in the watch world, something that’s like 13 or 14 millimeters is pretty chunky.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Something that’s, you know, 9 to 12 is considered pretty, pretty thin. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course there’s, you know, proportions and how big it is matters also, but like that’s a thin watch. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco visibly from this picture, this does look surprisingly thin. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s I think the change from the from the giant red dot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this more tasteful, although still I agree Casey unnecessary red ring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the crown for this other model. That’s nice too. It’s also worth pointing out this appears to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be shiny gold just like the iPhone 10 s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and 10 s Max plus 2.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not as shiny though. You can tell it’s not a steel watch

⏹️ ▶️ John or at or at least the finish doesn’t look like it. I disagree.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It looks exactly like a steel watch to me. Because it looks very, they’ve made gold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple watches until now, besides the editions, but ignore those. They’ve made all the aluminum gold ones, and they all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a very obvious matte gold finish. It’s very clear looking at it what you’re looking at.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This looks like the steel model, and it looks like it is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna say that’s a shiny gold. I’m gonna say you’re wrong. It looks like it’s the exact same finish as the iPhone XS.

⏹️ ▶️ John I agree that they’re trying to make it look shiny, like it doesn’t look like the current matte gold ones, but from looking at this

⏹️ ▶️ John picture, to me it looks like an aluminum one they’re making as shiny as they possibly can. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m wrong, because it’s just one picture, it’s really hard to tell, and especially since a lot of their marketing pictures look,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to say like airbrushed, right, obviously that’s old technology, but like they all look a little bit softer,

⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s a dreamlike haze to all of them which can make it look a little bit more matte, but I looked at this picture and

⏹️ ▶️ John I assumed it was an aluminum watch that they made as shiny as they possibly could. which made me fear that they

⏹️ ▶️ John may not even make the steel watch anymore because like the steel watch the main the main reason I’m interested in is

⏹️ ▶️ John for aesthetics but it does have the downsides of being heavier and making the vibrations less noticeable and

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff like that so I’m willing to believe that we found a way to make aluminum shiny and we just call

⏹️ ▶️ John this the gold watch and it looks as shiny as we could possibly make it but we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Marco as the resident watch nerd who has zero

⏹️ ▶️ Casey interest in digital watches is this appealing to you at all? Is this not appealing?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is this really just more of the same? How are you feeling about this? Knowing obviously very little, but just from the look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. I took out my digital calipers. I’m measuring my Series 3 aluminum. And if you include the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bump on the back, which you should, it is 13.7 millimeters thick. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco including the bump, it’s about 11.3. So, but obviously you should include the bump because that’s part of the thickness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It stands it off your wrist. It’s like a giant pillow floating them there in space. So, including the bump, it’s almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 14mm. So my eyeballing was roughly correct. Anyway, I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t like wearing the Apple Watch and I don’t think that’s ever going to change.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The things I don’t like about it are things that are fundamental to smart watches, especially to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an Apple smart watch, at least as we know it so far. But it’s things like I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like having the same watch as everyone else in the room. I don’t like having a watch that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco itself needs me for things like charging and software updates. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a burden on me that I don’t want to deal with more than I have to. I already deal with it enough with my other devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t like having a watch that is constantly buzzing or lighting up, but yet I also don’t like having a watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that isn’t always showing me the time in some way. So it’s like, you know, I want it to both never light up and always be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lit up. So it’s like, it’s kind of, I’m kind of, you know, what I want out of a watch is something that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Watch can’t really give me. And I don’t, some of those things might change a little bit over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time, but I don’t expect the overall, you know, essence of it to change over time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, there are times when I do wear it for, usually for testing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there are certain things about it I appreciate, and certain things about it that they could just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco change in software that I wish they would. One of the things I wish they would change in software is to just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the watch faces smarter. give me better visualization of data,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give me more data, both of which they appeared to have addressed in this new phase in this image,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and make it smarter about when it’s showing me what things. Like I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been reeling about this for years. Like I don’t need the giant timer widget or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco complication to say set when I don’t have a timer active, but every time I have a timer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco active, I wanna see it on the watch face. Even if I never told it to be in a complication, the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should be smart enough to figure out, you have a timer going on your watch for three minutes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You wanna know how that timer is progressing. You don’t need to know necessarily in that moment the sun sets in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four hours, if you just started a three minute timer. You wanna see that for the three minutes. When it’s over, maybe later, then tell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me about sunset. There’s so much more the Apple Watch faces can do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be smart about when they show you things. The Siri watch face does some of this. I don’t like the Siri

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch face much at all. It still needs a lot more control,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it still isn’t quite as smart as I want it to be, and I just, I think it looks terrible. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s just me. A lot of people like the Siri Watch face, so I can’t complain that much. But overall, I just, I want the Apple Watch platform

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to become smarter, to realize it is software, and needs not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco comply with the restrictions of mechanical watch design, when it can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be smart about what it shows you and when. And something like this, leaning into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco types of complications that mechanical watches can’t offer. Things like the weather

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the UV index. Sunset times are almost not offered.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s like one watch that offers them and it’s pretty cool actually. But if you ever move, you have to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make them adjust it mechanically. Anyway. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey my word. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that sounds super cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, I want the watch to get better in these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways of like what it’s showing me, how smart it can be, taking clues from context

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about what’s relevant to show me and what’s not. And this looks like it’s fixing some of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problems. It probably isn’t gonna fix all of them, but it looks like it’s fixing some of them. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I gotta give him credit if it is, that is steps in the right direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ultimately, I don’t think it’s ever gonna be for me again, at least not on a permanent basis. I might wear it sometimes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe during certain things like exercising or walking or whatever, or traveling maybe, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like traveling with a charger, but otherwise, yeah, it’s not for me.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I think this new form factor could represent a significant

⏹️ ▶️ John moment in the life of the watch, potentially taking it from a big, chunky

⏹️ ▶️ John computer nerd watch that some people learn to love, even though it’s a big, chunky computer nerd watch, which is kind of where we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John been for the past few years, where it’s not as if only computer nerds buy them, but there is a barrier to

⏹️ ▶️ John be overcome. You have to be convinced to wear this thing that looks,

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks too big for, it looks like, you know, it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John seem to justify its size until you maybe get it and wear it a little bit and you’re like, oh, it’s great, I love it for my workouts

⏹️ ▶️ John and I love notifications. Like, you can be won over by it, but you have to first overcome the hurdle of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if I want an Airstream trailer on my wrist. This may put it below the threshold

⏹️ ▶️ John where people don’t immediately instinctually say, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John not for me, because it just looks too ridiculous. Like, the farther they can get away from it looking like a computer

⏹️ ▶️ John watch, the better they are. I think this still looks a little bit like a computer watch and it’s hard for me to tell from this picture

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly how thin it really is. But I think that that is the

⏹️ ▶️ John most important feature of this watch in terms of attracting new buyers that’s thinner and attracting buyers

⏹️ ▶️ John who maybe love their watches and use them all the time, but they wish it was a little bit thinner, especially women or people

⏹️ ▶️ John with small wrists, right? Because it just even though they make the smaller size, which is great, it starts

⏹️ ▶️ John to dominate. It starts to look like you’re wearing one of those like ankle tracker things that they

⏹️ ▶️ John put on you when you’re not supposed to like flee, you know, you’re out on bail or something, right? It looks it

⏹️ ▶️ John looks big and the closer they can get this to looking more like a piece of

⏹️ ▶️ John jewelry. Not not gonna satisfy Marco ever but like more more like it just a traditional watch and less like

⏹️ ▶️ John a computer watch. That is huge. Now, as for the computer watch parts of it,

⏹️ ▶️ John there was a good parody image floating around Twitter or somewhere. I wish I know who made it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It showed like the shots that they show in the Iron Man and Avengers movies of the inside

⏹️ ▶️ John of Tony Stark’s helmet when he’s Iron Man. They show it’s a shot that doesn’t really make any sense if you think about it for

⏹️ ▶️ John two seconds. But anyway, it’s Robert Downey Jr. Space and surrounding it or all these sort of like heads

⏹️ ▶️ John up displays of like glowing lights everywhere. And someone just swapped in the the

⏹️ ▶️ John watch face from this picture. The joke is that this is a lot of information.

⏹️ ▶️ John It looks like movie technical mumbo jumbo gobbledygook, lots of lines

⏹️ ▶️ John and gradients and words and things like if you made up this watch face as a mock up, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John like before the Apple Watch came out, they’d be like Apple would never make something like this because It’s it’s garish

⏹️ ▶️ John information overload, trying to wedge information into every small like the the the one step forward

⏹️ ▶️ John from this parody would be like. And if you zoom in the tick marks for the hours, those are tiny words

⏹️ ▶️ John like each one of those is a contact name. And if you tap on it, it will send a message to that contact. It’s like how much

⏹️ ▶️ John more. Why don’t they just put your next appointment on the minute hand because it’s the long one and it can fit like

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a lot of information. Now, I totally agree with everything Margo said about how this watch face could be smarter.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this to that end, this is this is part because now they have more room to put things. And if they dynamically swap them,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the end of the world because you have so much room to put stuff. And of course, this is not going to be the only watch face, there’ll be a million watch faces,

⏹️ ▶️ John right, probably most of the existing ones and new ones and modified ones and, you know, all that

⏹️ ▶️ John other stuff, right. So I think that the software watch face story is significant, especially to

⏹️ ▶️ John experienced users. But this story is 100% about Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now it’s thinner, it’s not as gross as it was before, take a look at it again. Uh, and that,

⏹️ ▶️ John that like, you know, we’ll see in, in the months and weeks to come, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John what the conversations surrounding the Apple watch are. But if I had to tell anyone a reason they should go into an Apple store

⏹️ ▶️ John and look at an Apple watch, I would say it’s thinner now. That’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I would be. What

⏹️ ▶️ John I, what I would open with. And I wouldn’t mention anything about watch faces or red dots or color

⏹️ ▶️ John finishes or anything like that. and related to all this, you know, I have the

⏹️ ▶️ John series zero or whatever in the shiny stainless steel because it’s the one I like. I never use it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wear it like two times a year and I’m considering getting this watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because

⏹️ ▶️ John because when I wear it two times a year, it’s big and fat and heavy and this one will be thinner

⏹️ ▶️ John and presumably more attractive and will actually work with all the new features like it’s the series

⏹️ ▶️ John zero. I can’t use watchOS 5 right. I I can’t use overcast on the watch like I have air pods.

⏹️ ▶️ John If I go for a long walk, it’s nice to be able to go for a long walk with just my watch and my air pods instead of having to

⏹️ ▶️ John have my phone with me, especially if we get a cellular one. I’m not out of touch, you know, like they’ve come

⏹️ ▶️ John far enough technologically speaking that it’s not like it’s going to make me wear this watch every day. But the few

⏹️ ▶️ John times a year when I do wear the watch, this is will be a better watch to wear, obviously. And it may

⏹️ ▶️ John encourage me to wear it one or two more times a year. Makes me feel bad because this is going to be really expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ John How can I justify buying this stupid watch for all this money that I wear five times a year instead of three?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know. You’ll double your usage.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, exactly. I’m working on it with myself to see. I’ll have to see what the prices

⏹️ ▶️ John are. I’ll have to see if they make a stainless steel one. If I don’t like how any of them look, maybe I’ll just continue to wait. But

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, my wife is getting one 100% for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure. One thing too about the watch face is that like it’s another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco massive paper cut that annoys me about the Apple Watch is when they introduce cool stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to watch faces, usually it’s like one face that gets it. And sometimes that’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a cool new thing, you know, some new ability. Sometimes it’s something fairly important, like on the cellular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco models, as far as I know, the only watch face that supports showing you whether you are connected

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to cellular and how strongly is the Explorer face that was added last year. The other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch face, like it’s not a complication that you can just add to the other faces. Why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not? Or why didn’t they integrate it into the other faces as thing you can turn on or that’s just always there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like or why isn’t it part of the status bar I don’t know like why you know so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looking at this new face on in this leaked image or found image whatever it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s all these cool like diagonal complications is that gonna be an API for developers to integrate with because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right now that’s not a complication type that we have maybe we can maybe we can’t is if it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is it gonna be something that we can actually animate like the timer or not is it gonna only work with this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch face or are they going to go and update all the other watch faces? If the face of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch is larger, if you know, I mean, sorry, if the screen is larger, are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they going to update all the previous watch faces to be larger or are they going to look like the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they do now, which is basically like a small round face in the middle of this giant black expanse of nothing?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh no, they’ll be updated. And another thing I wanted to ask you, so the rumor is that the

⏹️ ▶️ John series for watch is 384 by 480. That’s points, not pixels. I assume. How big

⏹️ ▶️ John is the current one in points? Do you know offhand?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like 160 something like that or no, it’s so that that’s right. Pixels on.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, you think that’s pixels? Yeah. Anyway, my question was, they give this number. I don’t know how much bigger that is. Obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ John the pitch and the picture,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s 384 480 and currently it is 312 390. So what’s so that’s that’s part of

⏹️ ▶️ John the reason that they’re able to jam all this extra information is is now they have enough room to maybe make them read, although

⏹️ ▶️ John I have to say, uh, reading how much time is left on that timer. That may

⏹️ ▶️ John be difficult, especially on the smaller watch, given what size that is, but that’s why they have the progress

⏹️ ▶️ John bars, the little curvy progress bar. So I think it’s a reasonable compromise for including more information.

⏹️ ▶️ John But part of the reason people like modular is that you can have really big numbers

⏹️ ▶️ John for text. People who don’t like reading analog watches, people who just want to have a few pieces of basic information. And

⏹️ ▶️ John once again, I agree with Marco that more flexibility about what you can include to be better. I think we talked at a WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John show this year, how they were adding all these features, but they were only available in the Siri watch face, which I also think is

⏹️ ▶️ John not a nice watch face. And it’s terrible to be forced to use it, because that’s the only place that the features you want are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available. The advantage of the Apple Watch and of all smartwatches should be,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, a smartness, so like, you know, contextual awareness, only showing you things that are relevant and hiding them when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re not, things like that, not doing things like having a hand that goes over the date window because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s software, you know, but also B, the flexibility

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of watch face choice, like the individuality of watch face choice. It still kills me that third parties can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make watch faces and I think it’s a waste of the platform. I know why I think Apple wants to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep that all to themselves, but I don’t agree with that decision. We have computers on our wrists now. They can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be smart. They can show whatever we want them to show. It drives me nuts that I’m stuck with these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like eight designs that are, you know, increasingly getting dated and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say almost none of which are classics that are worth keeping around you know as the only 8

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or 10 watch choices. I want more. I want someone else’s take on what this face

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should be. You know whether it’s mine or whether it’s other more talented watch designers who have a chance at it. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just want more from this. It’s already bad enough that everyone in the room is the same watch. When you also have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only like two or three faces that are worth using it just makes it feel old. And like in this market you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to keep things fresh. Apple is not going to make the next Submariner or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Speedmaster or Aquanaut even though their hands are very similar to the Aquanaut hands,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they’re not going to make the next iconic watch face. They’re just not. The odds are against them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There are very few iconic watch faces and they tend to happen 50 years ago and not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of new ones being created now. So they need flexibility, they need to keep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it fresh similar to how they are adding new straps and new colors, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, fairly frequently to keep up with fashion. They need to also add face flexibility

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and different styles of faces and they’re not they’re just not doing that fast enough or not building

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the foundation necessary to let other people do it fast enough. Basically when I look at the Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every face on it looks stale and old to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean I obviously deeply disagree but that’s why you know opinions are opinions. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey love my Apple Watch. It’s not perfect. I’m not trying to say it’s perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I love it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like I said before, I had no intention of upgrading it this year. I’ve been on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a two or three-year cycle. I forget how long it was between, I guess it was two years because I went series zero to series

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three. It doesn’t really matter though. My point is just that I’d never treated the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a yearly upgrade sort of thing, but man, this one looks real good. It looks real, real good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’ll see if I can resist.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, it looks good to me too.

⏹️ ▶️ John The only thing I’m worried about is so it’s much thinner I love that but we just got I feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like with the series 3 like they added cellular and that’s big battery drain How’s the battery life

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be any so much presumably obviously everything and it takes less power But the screen is bigger

⏹️ ▶️ John and it was already OLED So I’m wondering how battery life will stack up versus the

⏹️ ▶️ John comparatively massively thick uh, current series three cellular,

⏹️ ▶️ John particularly for the cellular model to see how it shakes out uh battery wise. I wouldn’t be surprised

⏹️ ▶️ John to see its battery life in certain real world situations be not as good as the series three. Not that apple will ever

⏹️ ▶️ John say that, they’ll probably say it has the same battery life even though it’s thinner, which plus or minus marketing

⏹️ ▶️ John fudging is probably true, but I do worry a little bit about like like the very thin laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John that that true on certain tests and use cases,

⏹️ ▶️ John but if you’re doing something heavy duty or using cellular a lot, you get way worse battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life. You could browse a few light web pages of Safari on the watch for 10 hours.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, I’m not arguing against it. I think it’s probably the right trade-off to make. Like, this is the thing with the watches.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s been that Airstream trailer for a long time. It actually even got thicker, which is nearly unheard of, right? But we excused it because it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, you’re probably making it cellular, right? They spent a long time, I think we’ve talked about this before, adding every

⏹️ ▶️ John feature we knew the watch should eventually have to it, except for perhaps the camera, which they’ve never added.

⏹️ ▶️ John And during that time, they said, we’re not going to do the Apple thing. We’re not going to fight to make it thinner. We’re going to add battery life.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re going to add features. We’re going to add performance, and we’re going to keep it more or less the same size. Finally, after

⏹️ ▶️ John many years of that, they’re at the point now where they’re ready to bite the bullet and say, time to go thinner.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think it has shown abnormal restraint, restraint that they’ve waited this long, but I think the first

⏹️ ▶️ John really thin one is the most likely to sacrifice something or be compromised in some way

⏹️ ▶️ John for the thinness. Um, and I think it’s fine. Like I think that’s, if you wait

⏹️ ▶️ John until you can do the thin one with zero compromises, you probably will have waited too long. And as I said earlier, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John thinness is the, the major selling point of this watch. And that’s why I think everyone at Apple is probably

⏹️ ▶️ John expecting it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sell pretty well. Also, I mean three things like number one, the series three battery life is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost too good. Like, it’s better than it needs to be for most people. So I think they have some budget they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can spend there. Number two, I would not consider the additional screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size to be a major draw, because the Apple Watch is so aggressive about not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using its screen more than it has to. I’m guessing most of the power draw on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Watch is like, you know, just keeping the processor and stuff alive while it’s awake to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco run the apps, using the exercise sensor, which is mostly that giant light on the back of it and then the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco continuous processing of that, and the cellular radio if it’s on, or the other radios if it’s not. Like that seems to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the major power drive. I don’t think the display is doing that much because it just is hardly ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on relative to the entire day. And then third, cellular, honestly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cellular to me has been a disappointment on it. Now I don’t use it as heavily as Casey does, but what I have found is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the power saving measures on the cellular radio are so aggressive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that most of the time, I am not at, like, if I leave with just the watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I miss calls, I miss messages, because I’m not always connected. Like, I’m connected

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about half the time, maybe. And I know, because I look at the Explorer face, because even though it’s ugly as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sin, and it’s the only reason I’d ever want to look at it, I would look at the Explorer face to see, am I really connected right now? And sure enough, most of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time I get, you know, four, whatever it is, five empty dots, because I’m not actually connected.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or I get no dots because the radio isn’t even on, because it’s trying not to be on. I find the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power-saving nature of that radio is way too aggressive. And I know why they do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. They do it because it’s a huge battery drain, and it is remarkable that we have it at all, but to me, an unreliable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cellular radio is worse than not having one at all.

⏹️ ▶️ John You bring up the final thing that we’re not ready for yet, but it’s the next thing out there on the horizon, is they added all the features

⏹️ ▶️ John they could think of to add to the watch, all the obvious features when they first introduced it that weren’t there.

⏹️ ▶️ John The final one is always on watch face, right? And we’re not, we don’t have the tech for that yet, right? But

⏹️ ▶️ John that is out there looming in the distance because once you can get to some technology that lets you have that

⏹️ ▶️ John face on all the time, either because you go from emissive to reflective, or you have

⏹️ ▶️ John an emissive one that can literally be on all day, or some combination of the two that transparently switches between them,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the next big feature. And I will probably have to wait at least four or five years for them to even

⏹️ ▶️ John have that, for us to even know what kind of technology they would use to do that, let alone have it released.

⏹️ ▶️ John But there’s always an infinite appetite for battery, and having a screen

⏹️ ▶️ John on all the time, that’s the next big consumer, right after they get the cell radio

⏹️ ▶️ John to be on much more often, it’d be much more useful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, having some kind of always-on screen would go a very long way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get me to go back to the Apple Watch. Because one of the biggest things I love about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco regular watches is when you look at your wrist, the time is always showing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco With Apple watches, even the Series 3, the Apple Watch, still you need to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make that exaggerated motion sometimes. And it still makes you look like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an idiot. Like you’re sitting there turning your wrist, like come on, just show me the time, you gotta tap it. Like come on, what the heck?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is such a frustrating experience and it happens to me with the Apple Watch. When I’m wearing the Apple Watch regular, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens probably once a day at least. And regular watches,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you just look at your wrist. You don’t have to wait, and it’s always showing the time. If Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can achieve that, which we know it’s, Android wear watches can do that sometimes, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, they’re a giant monstrosity, but we know the technology exists to do that. So it’s plausible Apple could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do that sometime in the next few years. That would go a long way to get me back on that team.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s interesting. It makes sense, but it’s interesting. All right, so we’ll see what happens next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The event is the day we record, and so I’ve already explained

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Erin that I will be a ghost starting at one o’clock in the afternoon. She probably won’t see me the rest of the day.

Twitter sucks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I will be live streaming. Unfortunately, I don’t think any of us will be live tweeting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because guess what Twitter sucks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You know what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Twitter sucks more and more recently like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey really like it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So not only have they ruined live streaming by removing the streaming API from good apps But also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I’m noticing just like the people and maybe this is just who I’m following or who follows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me but it just seems like everyone’s constantly mad and being nasty to each other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and And it’s just a very unpleasant, I mean, and I know this is, you know, this is not news to a lot of people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on Twitter who have had much worse experiences than me for much longer, but I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hardly ever want to go there at all anymore. Like, it’s so, it’s just, it’s such a crappy place.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, it’s just, it’s nasty. It’s just not fun. It’s horrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I just, I really, it seems like it’s in a really bad place community-wise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and mood and culture-wise. And I don’t think communities tend to recover

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from that, no matter what the leadership does.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. But we’ve spoken about that in plenty of places and plenty of times,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and yeah, suffice it to say, Twitter sucks. So.

#askatp: Backups 101

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s do some Ask ATP, which, although it comes in via Twitter, does not suck. So JD

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Lewin writes, what advice would you offer to someone trying to get from no backups to the bare minimum of local

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and off-site backups? And I presume all three of us have opinions about this. My opinion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, the very first thing you do is get a reasonably cheap hard drive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is at least as big as the one that is inside your computer and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plug that in and make it a time machine volume. So this way, your computer backs up to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that regularly. And even if you leave it plugged in all the time, which has risks, it’s better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than nothing. That’s just the bare minimum. That’s step one. And then step two, if you want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to take it to the next level and do something that is off-site, like you said, then what I do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is I would buy a portable hard drive that is at least as big as the hard drive in your machine. And I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey also buy a SuperDuper and I would clone your computer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to that drive at least once a month. And then if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re really smart, you will store that hard drive like at work or something like that. And this way, if your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey entire house, God forbid, goes up in flames, that portable hard drive is still sitting at like your office or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and you can get to it if need be. That is my personal opinion. And then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you really want to go triple down, you could do you know, backblaze or crash plan or something like that. That’s my two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cents, john, how do you feel about this?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think you’re overcomplicating it because realistically, people will not bring that hard drive back and forth from their

⏹️ ▶️ John office, they’ll forget about it, they will do it as often as they want, it will be terrible. So my advice would be,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to step zero is use and pay for the iCloud backup feature

⏹️ ▶️ John on your iOS devices. It doesn’t we just think we’re talking about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey computers here, but you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to know backups, right? enable the iCloud backup and when it tells you you don’t have enough space,

⏹️ ▶️ John pay for it. I know it’s annoying. It’s fine. Like just you just bought a like a thousand dollar phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John pay three dollars a month for the storage, whatever. Just do it because people have tons of important stuff on

⏹️ ▶️ John their phones and iCloud backup is way better than nothing. And once you set it up and pay for it,

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t really have to think about it anymore. It does it while you plug in at night when it’s charging. It’s fine. Second time machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just what Casey said, because it’s built into the OS. Assuming you have a Mac, it’s the least hassle way to do backups.

⏹️ ▶️ John backups and third cloud backup like backblaze. So that’s what I do. I was I cloud backups time machine

⏹️ ▶️ John backblaze.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t say this often, but john is 100% right. And I agree with everything you just said.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think I can get behind that too.

#askatp: Prepaid iPhone plans

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Stephen Kim writes, I recall you guys saying that part of preordering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an iPhone requires you to go through your carrier, AT&T or Verizon or whatever. I’m on a prepaid

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plan. Does Apple simply not offer a preorder on a carrier-free unlocked iPhone? And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanted to publicly call out that the reason I’m answering this question is because Stephen’s avatar photo is tremendous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, the thing with buying an iPhone or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey preordering an iPhone is that they really do, like you said, want you to verify with your carrier that you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey able to do this. And I think this is, in many ways, a holdover from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey back when Americans did this on a two-year contract. And so what I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would recommend, and I don’t know if they offer this for pre-orders on day one. I have this vague recollection

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this is not usually offered until a couple weeks later. But see if they offer a T-Mobile

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone, because T-Mobile doesn’t give a crap whether you have a plan or not. And typically, you can order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a T-Mobile phone unlocked and it won’t be a problem and you don’t have to verify with T-Mobile.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But again, I’m not confident that it will be available on day one. But that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would look at. Also be very aware that there are different versions of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say the iPhone X because there are certain versions that work with certain bands

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of certain cellular networks. So the AT&T one on the inside actually has a different like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey radio or whatever than the Verizon one. The chat room is saying that’s not true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am pretty darn sure that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco But I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s true on some models, like some years it’s true, some years it’s not true. So do your research.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, do your research. But I would at least look at T-Mobile and also again, verify it against whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your particular carriers are.

⏹️ ▶️ John My thought is, don’t worry about having to go through your

⏹️ ▶️ John carrier stuff. Because Because you don’t have to worry about that if you don’t try to buy the phone right away. Wait till everyone else

⏹️ ▶️ John bought the phone. Wait till everyone else finds out that they’ve been. Wait till all the batteries explode. Wait till all that stuff is done

⏹️ ▶️ John and just stroll into an Apple store a couple months later and pick up your nice shiny new phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is the easiest way to do it. I’m not sure if that’s the quickest obviously, but that’s the easiest

⏹️ ▶️ John way. It’s the quickest once you make the decision to buy and just leading up you say, I’m not going to buy it because that’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John what I’m going to do. I’m not going to buy now. I’ll buy it eventually. That’s what I did with my 7. with my 7. It’s like because

⏹️ ▶️ John I wanted the Jet Black and people were having contention for the Jet Black. Don’t stay up late at night trying to order it. Don’t try to order

⏹️ ▶️ John it birthday just wait a while and just get it whenever.

#askatp: “Cheapest” product

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, then a stunningly attractive person by the name of Casey List wrote in and asked,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what is the cheapest Apple product?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I was thinking… And your own questions to ask AT&T. Oh, it’s happening. It’s happening. It’s happening. At least

⏹️ ▶️ John you put it third. I like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. All right. Well, I kind of felt like this was a segment, but I knew

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we would be busy in the main part of the show and I didn’t want it. I wanted to imply that this should not go on for three hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So everyone look at your clocks. I was thinking at, I think it was either dinner or maybe when we went on our

⏹️ ▶️ Casey walk today, if you were to define cheapest as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey best value for money, so I understand that you don’t have to agree with that definition, but for the purpose of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco conversation, I’m looking at you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John. That’s a totally different thing. Okay, fine. What is the best value for money Apple product? Call it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want. Didn’t we answer that a few months ago in Ask

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey ATV?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did we? Yeah, we did. Because I’m pretty sure I said the cheap iPad mini and the iPhone 7 and the 15-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco base model. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so let me rephrase my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey question a little bit because the genesis of my question was me thinking of all the Apple devices that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I own, what do I think gave me the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amount of joy for the least amount of money? Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be… And here I did all this research about what’s cheapest.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John You’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to say like the Lightning to headphone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adapter? Yes. So, the Lightning to headphone adapter is the cheapest hardware product Apple sells. If you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could think about maybe, do iTunes songs count? Those are a dollar or less than certain other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco currencies. But the Lightning to Headphone Adapter is the cheapest. It’s cheaper than the MagSafe 2 to MagSafe 1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adapter by 99 cents at $9 exactly instead of $99. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheapest hardware product Apple has ever sold, to my knowledge, is the developer Apple TV, which they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sold for $1 to developers. I bought one. that was not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco publicly available to everybody so maybe it doesn’t count and it isn’t currently for sale

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if you’re looking at what is the cheapest hardware computing device that is like a full

⏹️ ▶️ Marco standalone computing device that they sell it’s the iPod touch which is 200

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks unless you want to go refurb in which case you can get a refurb iPod

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touch for a hundred and thirty nine dollars that is the cheapest standalone computing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco device Apple currently sells The cheapest computer that is like a typical Mac is a refurb Mac Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for $419, which by the way I think is still the current model. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so us that the one time that you do homework

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco was to answer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John quite, I guess it’s to answer the question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I asked on the show notes, but not at all the question I was trying to ask.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, answering the question on the show notes, one more thing I would, I put on my old man hat, but I couldn’t remember the details

⏹️ ▶️ John of this. So maybe you can someone write in and tell me even if, even if it doesn’t make it into to follow up because Marco demands to

⏹️ ▶️ John cut it. The programmer switch for the original Mac and many models after it, if

⏹️ ▶️ John that was sold separately, that may have been cheaper than $1.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco What I know you two don’t I know you two don’t know what the

⏹️ ▶️ John programmer switches it’s fine just we’ll just move on. Is it literally like a switch? It’s not it was not even as much

⏹️ ▶️ John as a piece of a single piece of single color molded plastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wow, why?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s very important piece of hardware. I used it all the time on the old Macs. You don’t want to know why.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t want to know why. All right. So what I was trying to say is what Apple product brings you the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey joy, preferably for the least amount of money. I was debating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with myself, like the iPhone is very, very expensive and I use it constantly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t know if I would say it brings me joy. This kind of relates

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to our conversation about whimsy, but I was thinking about it and I think that the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me, which were something like $150, $180, I don’t remember how much they are now. two years ago, but for between $150 and $200, the AirPods I have used pretty much every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey day since I bought them. And even though they have their quirks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and foibles, they still make me extremely happy. They make me extremely happy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for under $200. My iPhone makes me very, very happy, but is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way more than $200. So my question is, in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that vein, phrase it however you would like, what do you think is the best perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey value for money, whimsy per dollar, however you want to phrase it, what is your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey favorite Apple product in that regard?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I should clarify that one of them, which I have never used,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would have to be the cheap iPad. Like that, I think, is an amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco value for the money. But I’m not that much of an iPad person, as we said earlier, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my personal choice would probably have to be a Mac of some kind.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think any of the Macs are great values right now, except maybe the MacBook Air.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But for the most part, I don’t think any of them are great values, which is why it’s hard to answer this. But I get the most joy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of Macs. Even though, and I love iPhones too, I really love iPhones. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Macs to me are where it’s at. So if you’re looking at what Mac I enjoy the most,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s the iMac Pro, which is not cheap or a good value. So it’s hard for me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to say, but if you’re looking at actual best value,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my opinion, in the Mac lineup, I’m gonna still have to say either the Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the base model 15 inch and the old one if you can get it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I mean, I think in your case, I’m doing a poor job phrasing the question, but I think the answer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for you is the iMac Pro because yeah, it is a lot of money, but it brings you in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a commensurate amount of joy. and to you, that trade-off is worth it. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s just that, to you, that is the best trade-off. So I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco answer is- You know what, I will also say my bright orange Apple leather case for my iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco X.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s actually, that’s another really great answer, given how you were talking about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it earlier.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it was, I think, 40 or 50 bucks. So it’s not, you know, a phone case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being 40 or 50 bucks, yeah, that’s somewhat extravagant. I mean, cases aren’t that cheap. you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even a cheap crappy case is probably 30 bucks. So, you know, it’s not, it’s not super cheap, not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super expensive. Um, but I’m, I saw it in the store in California when we all were there together.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I thought it was ridiculous to buy myself a leather case because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I, you know, had other cases and it was fine, but I really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really enjoy it. And it makes me very happy. and it makes me so happy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m very tempted to, the day before the event, order

⏹️ ▶️ Marco another one. On the assumption that it might fix the iPhone 10S2,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever, it might fit that phone, if they don’t change the camera bump shape, and if it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t fit it, I can just return it within the 15 days. But if I wait till the day after, they might change the colors. And your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey existing one is kind of in the position that you would like another, or you just want a new one because new phone?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If it fits the next phone, I’m probably gonna wanna keep it on for a whole other year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so if that’s the case, I might want a backup. Fair enough. That’s an interesting point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really love this bright orange leather. It’s so cool. And yeah, it is starting to wear and darken around the edges

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they always do. So I wouldn’t mind having an extra one if it will fit my phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John?

⏹️ ▶️ John You stole my answer with the AirPods because I felt like they’ve made the biggest change in my life for the amount of money

⏹️ ▶️ John that they are. They seem like they were expensive when I first bought them again, mostly because of these small things shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John cost as much money and they’re so tiny, right? But they, you know, I, I use them every single day

⏹️ ▶️ John and the change from having to deal with cords to having to deal with these just life changing. You should never go back.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, despite my annoyance with tapping my stupid year and not being able to control volume,

⏹️ ▶️ John like I’ve, I’ve mastered the art of, of hitting the volume buttons when my phone is in my pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like I’m, that’s now a skill that I possess purely because of air pods and it’s still 100% worth it. Like I would never go back

⏹️ ▶️ John to to courted things. I love them. And every every day I think about it, I’m like, how much

⏹️ ▶️ John more than 160 would you pay for these airpods? I would pay a frightening amount more at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like I would

⏹️ ▶️ John pay like a daily I would pay like $10 a day to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey keep using these things. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. That sounds preposterous. Like putting myself in the headspace of you know, pre

⏹️ ▶️ Casey airpod ownership. That sounds ridiculous. But you know what, I think it is certainly possible I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would do the same thing. I love these things. And I thought that they were obscenely expensive when I bought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. And I kind of bought them on a lark because at the time, you know, they were hard to come by and somebody local

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had them and was willing to sell them to me for, you know, face value, so to speak. And I just kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey went on a limb and thought, well, I’ll give it a shot. And I love these things. And I would pay a lot more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than $100 whatever to get the next pair if I had to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Casper, and Creative Selection.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we’ll talk to you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even mean to begin, cause it was accidental, oh it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental. John didn’t do any research, Marco

⏹️ ▶️ John and Casey wouldn’t let him, cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ John it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental. accidental And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at ATP.FM And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter You can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M Anti-Marco Armin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse It’s accidental, they

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t mean to. Accidental, accidental, tech

⏹️ ▶️ John broadcasts so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long.

Neutral: Casey’s new baby

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t want to talk about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John He had a very important experiment in which he tried for 18 hours what

⏹️ ▶️ John it might be like to be a single car household and he didn’t like it. He didn’t like it at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all. Was it even that long? So, last episode… Was it 9 hours? 10 hours?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Last episode you let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey down. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down. I made a joke that it’s not like you’re going to buy a car in the next 9 hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How many hours was it until you bought a

⏹️ ▶️ John car. Oh, more importantly, how many hours were you a single car household?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Because

⏹️ ▶️ John we got to know that you gave it a good, you gave it a good

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey try. Like you gave it a

⏹️ ▶️ John chance at least.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you? Here’s the thing. Marco has a tendency to cut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things that are boring or useless, which is very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco useful. Closed as feature, works as intended.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, the one time I needed him to cut something,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he didn’t cut it. And the thing I needed him to cut was me talking about how I should really remain

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a one-car family, which all was true and probably still is. But that was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recorded, and my time between 9 and midnight on Wednesday, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what, 29th

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco August? It was like 11 p.m. Okay, so how many hours were you a one-car family?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 11-ish a.m. We sold the BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at 5 o’clock the evening of the 30th. I drove

⏹️ ▶️ Casey away from Lindsay Volkswagen in the Washington, D.C. area in a Golf R.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, what, it was like 20 hours? Roughly. I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey close

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John with 18 hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But here’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John thing, though. I was

⏹️ ▶️ John closest without going over.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Price

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is right rules. right rules. No, but here’s the thing, though. You have to remember that we have effectively

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been a one-car household with asterisks since WWDC, because I believe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was right after WWDC that my car really crapped the bed. I forget exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it was, and I’m scared to look it up, but it was in June for sure, because after that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I borrowed my dad’s Jeep for a couple of weeks long enough to get me through the end

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of regular work. And then we all went to London, and then I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have any other car until almost a week ago now. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes, in a literal sense, you are absolutely right, and you should be making merciless amounts of fun of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, and I’m sure that will be forthcoming. But in a literal sense, yeah, we were a one-car family for like eight hours, not even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey six hours. No, less than that. You get the point. But realistically,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve really been a one-car family for a couple of months. Now the asterisks on that are, yes, the BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was sitting in the driveway. So in a desperation scenario, we could have used it. But the car seats hadn’t been in it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for forever. So the only real use it had was for me in a desperation scenario, because otherwise

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would have to load up the car seats, and that’s not an insignificant amount of effort. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I hadn’t moved the BMW more than about 10 feet since

⏹️ ▶️ Casey June until the time that I prepared to sell it. So we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really were effectively a one-car family. The only other asterisk I have is that on and off we did have a Golf

⏹️ ▶️ Casey R, we had a GTI, we were borrowing a friend’s car for a little while, which will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eventually be a Casion cars. So we did have some other cars running through the household. But in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey terms of any time we didn’t have a pressed or friend’s car or family’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey car, we were a one-car household. And it is livable. It is definitely livable. It’s just not fun. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanted a treat, and I got myself a treat.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is like quite an explanation of how tons of cars being at your house means you’re effectively a one-car

⏹️ ▶️ John family Yeah, we have like 20

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey cars at the house Especially

⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t count the car that I own that runs that is in my driveway, but that I refuse to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey drive, right? You you completely understand it. I’m glad I’m glad we’re on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same page. You have a very full garage for a one-car family

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, you know, I only have one question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what color is it it’s blue and you can kiss my well white

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ass Is it really blue it is really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey blue is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a very light shade of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blue? No, it is not a light shade of blue. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blue. Oh my god. You’re lucky the kids are asleep I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just saying like the trend in cars in recent years has been to to be a little bit more

⏹️ ▶️ John bold with the with the Primary colors and not like mix in it not make them sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of darker and subdued So the blue is more of a vibrant blue than like a

⏹️ ▶️ John a midnight blue or a navy blue

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey or the yeah Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a lot of cars come in that more like the Tesla’s like that, too They come in a very

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna say play school blue. Yours is kind of more of a metallic blue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think that I mean the the actual name of the color is lapis blue But yes, it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it is not bad. That’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bad Yeah, so I’ve dropped a picture in in the private chat room, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is why Marco’s reacting It’s really not a bad blue at all. I quite like it. It’s not as good as the Le Mans blue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that BMW did that I loved, but it’s actually pretty darn close. And, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am very, very pleased with it. Um, the car is great. I love it. It does have, it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to some degree a compromised machine. You know, there are compromises. It doesn’t have a sunroof. It doesn’t have some of the other things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I like, but it does, it does do the things that I care about most really, really, really well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is allow me to drive in the way in which I want, both in terms of having a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey six-speed and having all-wheel drive. It allows me to do the things I want the way I want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to. And again, I really think the color is really, really good. And so I got it for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I think was a pretty darn good deal. I’m not going to get into the particulars about it, but I think that I got a really good deal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Are you leasing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or not leasing?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am not leasing. And the financing worked out really nicely. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it has a six-year warranty. So if anything within reason goes bad in six years,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s covered. I mean, obviously not a wear item, but anything else, if it goes bad in six years, it’s covered.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the only problem I have with it is that I’ve only put something like 200 miles on it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the last week, and about 100 or so of them were bringing it home from the DC

⏹️ ▶️ Casey area. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I said to

⏹️ ▶️ John Aaron— So it’ll be broken in by sometime in 2020.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m hopeful, yes. But I did say to Aaron that, just for what it’s worth,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is the most you will ever like this car, because I’m limiting myself to keeping it under 4,000 RPM.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m trying not to just sit on cruise control if I’m ever on the highway. Basically trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey treat the car like the manual asks me to treat it. And so I told Aaron, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this car now, that’s wonderful. But if you don’t like it, it’s only going to get worse from here when I can use the rest

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the rev range and generally drive like the BMW driver

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John probably

⏹️ ▶️ John still the car that she’s disliking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey realize well she’s not a big hatchback person and truth be told I’m not generally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either but this was the best compromise I could make with myself and so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah I think you’re right it’s it’s more about the the squishy bits behind the wheel that bother her than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then then the car itself

⏹️ ▶️ John but I can’t believe you back into your garage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why wouldn’t I back into my garage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll tell you what there were when I was unloading from some large trips over the last week or so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would back into the garage to do it because I was unloading into like the room behind the garage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that made the most sense to have the trunk right there, and I really hated backing into the garage,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I really love pulling out of the garage after I had backed in like that was really it was really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was like you’re in the bat cave. Yeah, like there was like for a few brief minutes there. I’m like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casey’s onto something here, but then I realized, you know, that’s terrible to do all the time. You realize backing into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your garage is annoying. sucks. Yeah, like it sucks to do it on the way out, but it’s really nice in the way or yeah, vice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey versa. The thing I understand your perspective, and I’m not here to change your mind, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think what most people and I’m not just picking on the two of you, what most people don’t realize is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over time, you get used to it. And I can, I can have made the speech to you two before, but I can back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into a parking spot or into the garage extremely, extremely, extremely quickly and and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey surely not as quickly as pulling in forwards, but nearly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as quickly. And so I much prefer it because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when I’m ready to leave, I just leave. I don’t have to, I mean, not that I don’t feel look, that was what I was about to say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a

⏹️ ▶️ John terrible, not that I doubt your skills, Casey, but if your garage is cavernous, if you ever visit me again,

⏹️ ▶️ John I should ask you to try backing your car into my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey garage. I will absolutely do it. But I agree with your point that my garage, by comparison is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John cavernous

⏹️ ▶️ John and feel about like an inch and a half clearance on all sides.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good luck. I mean, I could do it. It would not be fun,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco but I could do it. There’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a garage case. You can almost fit a third car like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that’s how I know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not true. You could definitely fit a motorcycle.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you got rid of the stairs, you could probably fit like a third smart car. If you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco park close, you could fit it. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably fit a Fiat 500 between those two. Yeah. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it also

⏹️ ▶️ John looks like your car could fit inside Aaron’s car. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s it. Oh, that’s yeah. This thing is tiny compared to even the BMW in terms

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a footprint. Although on the inside, I don’t feel like it’s, it’s particularly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John smaller. But you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the

⏹️ ▶️ John inside of this TARDIS

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blue. Like I haven’t even seen Doctor Who and I get that reference.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you want to give us any backstory behind this because on the show you here’s what I just listened to re listen to the episode and I

⏹️ ▶️ John was hearing what you were saying at the end and you said you covered all bases you’re like

⏹️ ▶️ John right now I don’t think I think we’re going to be a one car family see how that’s going to be but then you also said but who knows maybe by

⏹️ ▶️ John the time it’s I’ll have a new car. So it seems like you had all the possibilities going in your mind. But you were still coming down on the idea

⏹️ ▶️ John that you had basically decided that you’re not going to get a car.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you said you were depressed about it. So my question is, coming out of that show, what happens? Coming out of the show,

⏹️ ▶️ John do you talk it over with Erin some more and say, I’m feeling depressed about

⏹️ ▶️ John it? And she encourages you and says, oh, I don’t want you to feel depressed. You should just get the car. Do you convince yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John that you should just get the car? And then convince Erin that you think it’s a good idea? What is the decision-making

⏹️ ▶️ John process? How do you get from the headspace you were at the end of the show to the point where you’re plunking down hard-earned cash for a new car?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a fair question. I think even sitting here now with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a car, with two cars in my garage, I think the smarter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey decision would have been not to buy it. But Aaron was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on board with being a two-car family. a two-car family, she just didn’t necessarily – she wasn’t necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on board with the idea of getting that particular car or really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any car at that particular price point as the second car. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in her world, I think she would have – in a figurative sense,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey she would have handed me a $5,000 wad of cash and said, go buy a Civic or something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. In other words, we have the Volvo for when we want to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey spoiled and then we would have some sort of, you know, I don’t want to say beater because I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a $5,000 Civic is not a beater, but you know what I mean? Like something that is considerably less fancy for when we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need it. And unequivocally, that is the more prudent thing to do because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron is in every measurable way a more prudent person than I am. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it was a combination of just as much as I joke, I just wanted it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wanted to try to get one before I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey couldn’t get one with a stick. And I’m fearful that even a model year 2019

⏹️ ▶️ Casey may not have a stick. I have no indication of that, but I’m fearful of it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In fact, just earlier today, somebody tweeted at me that the new GT500 or whatever the equivalent thereof,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the new Mustang apparently will not have a stick, which is mind-boggling to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But more than anything else, generally speaking, I would just sit there and wait for used cars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to appear that matched what I wanted. And especially in this case, it’s very easy because there’s effectively

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no options. Your only options are color and transmission. And that’s what I did with the BMW. The problem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey though is that I really wanted that six-year warranty and I basically wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it up front. I mean, I believe it may be transferable, but I wanted to use all six years of that warranty because I keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a car for a long time. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey convinced myself that it was okay. And what I was basically—I think I’d said on the show, I’d already

⏹️ ▶️ Casey started negotiating with this dealer out of DC, and I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pulling on that thread just to see if it would end up somewhere good. Like if they had said to me,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, oh, we’re going MSRP and that’s that, you know, screw you, then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I probably would not have a car right now. And not to say that I figuratively stole it, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I am satisfied

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with, by that I mean, you know, it wasn’t cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am satisfied with the price I paid for it and in my experience having spoken to a few dealers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pretty much no one deals on golf ours because they’re so esoteric and unique and most dealers get so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey few of them This particular dealer claims and I have reason to believe they’re right that they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get something like 50 or 60 copies of this car in a year So it’s not you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know This sort of thing where it’s it’s a very low supply You know and and so they were willing to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deal on it a bit and that worked out really nicely Additionally, I had resolved my woes with the BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and got, you know, what I thought was a reasonable price for the BMW.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so all the stars kind of aligned and said, you know, if you really want to do this, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do this. And that’s basically what Aaron said to me as well. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m very, despite what it sounds, I’m very happy with it. But I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slightly ashamed given what I had said last episode, because I really did believe it at the time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or maybe it’s just that I wanted to believe it at the time. And so now I’m kind of doing a walk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of shame about it all a week later. But you know, here I am. That’s part of putting your life on the Internet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay, so you are a successful professional.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was trying to convince you to buy more

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco expensive. He

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey already bought it. He already

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco bought the car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s too late.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You are what 36? Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. Yeah, it actually occurred to me. Is this my midlife crisis car? Cuz it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco may be. Not yet. No, that comes later. So you are a 36 year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old working professional. You are successful in your career. Part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of your career and a massive part of your hobby and identity and passion is cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As much as we talked last episode about it being practical to you know, have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a one-car family, family, there was no way that you were going to be a one-car family.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, no. No, definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not. Especially when the one car was not your car. Yeah. You are a car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco person. It is such a critical part of what makes you happy. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay to spend money on things that make you happy if you can. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re not putting yourself into bankruptcy by doing this, right? Like, you totally can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco carry this, and so you are. are choosing to spend money on something that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes you really, really happy, that you care very deeply about,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’re doing it in a pretty reasonable way. You didn’t buy the Giulia. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t buy an M3. Price-wise, you’re in not a cheap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car, but for a car that a successful 36-year-old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco programmer would buy who loves cars, you did okay. You didn’t go crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on it, right? Yeah. You shouldn’t feel bad about doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something nice for yourself sometimes, especially in an area that is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco important to you and that gives you so much joy, like every day.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like you care very deeply about cars. There was no way you were ever gonna not have a car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was yours, that was the car you really wanted for you. That was never gonna happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it shouldn’t happen, and you shouldn’t feel bad about that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I completely agree, and I appreciate it. I really, truly do. I think part of my crisis

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about all of this is that when I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looking at a future of having no car to call my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey own, even though legally speaking, both of us own both of these cars. And I mean, Erin was very,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very good about letting me drive the Volvo, which I consider to be her car. And I think she mostly considered

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it to be her car. She was very good about letting me drive it a lot when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was clear that I basically didn’t have a car to drive anymore. Um, but, but it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, it caused a little bit of a crisis, an internal crisis within me, um, when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I got really and truly deeply upset about the thought of not having a car of my own

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or, or perhaps not having one that I’m excited about and, and I, I was, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey depressed is a strong word, but, but, and everything is relative,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John but That’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John you said on the last show. That’s what I’m saying. You said the word depressed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and I was kind of depressed about it. And then it’s like this self-fulfilling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cycle. Now we’re getting deep into analog territory. But then it’s like this self-fulfilling cycle of like, grow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up, you baby. It’s a freaking car. Like, why are you hanging so much of this on a freaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey car? And then I was getting annoyed with myself about the fact that I was getting kind of depressed. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so it was this kind of cycle that I still think I have some unresolved feelings

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or thoughts or issues to get through. But all of that is to say that I think you hit the nail

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the head, Margo, that a lot of my identity is wrapped up within this. And that’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not healthy and probably not good, but it is a fact. And so one way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or another, a lot of my identity is wrapped up in having a car that I enjoy. It doesn’t necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have to be the fanciest car on the block. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the fastest or the most expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or whatever, but it needs to be something that I enjoy. And white. And so, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey occasionally white. For the record, ladies and gentlemen, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey announced this in the Relay Slack the day after it happened, or maybe the day it happened, I don’t recall.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Marco’s response, I would like to read to you, it is as follows, that’s an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unusual shade of white, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco annoyed me so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deeply because that was such a perfect thing to say.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everyone else is being all congratulatory.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Varko comes with. That’s an unusual state of light. I’m still laughing about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s the thing. So you’re justifying this as though, like, you know, you’re just, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s about personality. That’s good. You should have a car because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can afford it. It makes you very happy. And you know what? This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going to get briefly very dark for a moment, and this might give you more of an issue. I’m going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey try to make it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey less. Oh no. Here we

⏹️ ▶️ John go. know. Do you know something we don’t about his health?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about this. No, I think about this stuff more than I probably should. You’re like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco halfway through your life. Yeah, maybe a little less if you know if you’re lucky, less than halfway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but in the ballpark of halfway. Yeah, right. Absolutely. And we’re you know, you’re only we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you we are only going to be young for so long. You know, we’re not I mean by by kids standards. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco already not young like you know our kids think we’re the boring old people, but like you’re only going to be able to enjoy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars and drive cars for a certain number of years in your life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you are probably you know halfway through that number of years where you’re going to be driving cars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and additionally as you said the kind of cars you like to drive are going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco away there aren’t a lot of years left where you will be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and motivated to buy those cars where it will make sense or or even be possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to own them, where it would even be legal to drive them on the roads. These all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have end dates that we can kind of see looming on the horizon. Maybe not soon,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but not 50 years from now, probably less than that, right? So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for God’s sakes, enjoy this time. You are at, this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of like the peak of everything. body still doesn’t ache getting into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars like this, your left leg still functions enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you can use a clutch without causing like you know RSI in your leg or soreness or having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad knees or arthritis or anything like enjoy this time because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can you have it now and it’s not gonna last forever and maybe it’s gonna last 40

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more years that’d be great if you could if you actually are able-bodied and alive for 40 more years in order to drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco six shift cars that are still available and legal, that’ll be great. But it’s probably going to be less than that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So enjoy this time while we have it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven Connelly Yeah, I think you’re completely right. And it was funny, somebody tweeted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at me earlier today, and I don’t have the tweet handy, and I apologize, but it was the tweet about the Mustang going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey automatic in the future. And this individual said, we’re on the wrong side of history,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which admittedly is like a very, very overblown way to to phrase this, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s true. Like it occurred to me that this is something that I believe devoutly that driving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a stick is more fun and to me is better. Yes, you can make plenty of arguments that I’m wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And clearly it seems that that is the case that I am wrong. But it was an odd realization

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when this person on Twitter said this to me, that that I kind of am on the wrong side of history. I like to think I am on a lot of,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m on the right side on a lot of other things. Um, and we’ve talked about a lot of these things on this show,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but. But on this one, I think John and I are on the wrong side of history, and that’s an uncomfortable and unfortunate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey realization to come

⏹️ ▶️ John to. That’s the wrong phrasing. That phrase is used when people are like prejudiced and that prejudice

⏹️ ▶️ John goes away. This is not an attitude thing. This is just merely we are we are I think we are appropriately

⏹️ ▶️ John aged like we’re in turn in anachronism, right? Because when we were growing up, that was the thing. But that’s true of everybody.

⏹️ ▶️ John People like old music, old songs like that. And you don’t say you’re on the wrong side of the history because you like

⏹️ ▶️ John the hits of the 70s because you grew up in the 70s. I’m sorry, you’re on the wrong side of history people like different music now Yeah, they do like different

⏹️ ▶️ John music now, but I’m not on the wrong side of history because you know I like REM you too and Bruce Springsteen,

⏹️ ▶️ John so I reject that a characterization and I think you’re fine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s because you and I agree But you you and I are screwed though because I mean I really genuine and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I I said this about the BMW But I really think this is the last time I’ll buy a stick shift car

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not because I want to

⏹️ ▶️ John but but yeah But you’ve all you’ve all totally abandoned me right because you no longer buy cars Marco no longer buys

⏹️ ▶️ John gas cars I am the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sole survivor who

⏹️ ▶️ John buys cars, not hatchbacks, with stick shifts. Car-shaped cars, is that your

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco thing? Yeah, car-shaped cars

⏹️ ▶️ John with stick shifts. I’m the last one standing. That’s all right. John doesn’t think my dog is a dog either, so, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John join the club. Casey made a joke in the Slack saying, I asked him, like, did you get it with a stick shift? He’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, about that. And I was 100% convinced that he had gotten the PDK or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey whatever the automated manual. I’m still offended

⏹️ ▶️ John by that. I was totally convinced. Why? Because you had it on the GTI, which I’m sure we’ll see a video about someday.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you’ve driven so many cars like that, and you’re like, oh, even the automatics are fine, and I liked

⏹️ ▶️ John it in the Giulia and this, that, and the other thing. I totally believed it. So you are a traitor to stick kind,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I am the last person standing. How am I a traitor? I just spent. You already said this. This is going to be the last

⏹️ ▶️ John one you’re going to buy. And I’ve literally never owned a car that was not a stick, and neither is my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wife. It’s not because that’s what I want. I just don’t think I’ll have an option anymore unless I go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that’s effectively vintage at that point. If I continue to want new-ish cars, and again,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t expect to buy, well, actually two new cars in as many years. I was, Aaron

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I both were perfectly happy on the used car train, but for various and sundry reasons, maybe excuses,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we ended up on a brief new car train for a minute. And I think the next time, presumably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in five or six or 10 years, probably six or less, I will probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey end up in a used car because it’s a much better value for money.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that is the only way I’ll get a stick shift, I think, because I really think in the next five

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to 10 years, there will be no affordable new cars that have a stick. I mean, I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey heard rumors that BMW’s dropping it from the 3 Series. And they seem to me to be like the last

⏹️ ▶️ John holdout. No, it’s coming back. A couple of car makers have reversed their decision and they’re bringing the sticks back. So it’s just-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I’m curious, John, like, do you think, so you’re currently a few years into your accord.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re probably gonna keep it for at least another, what, five years at least, right? Do you think in five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years, Honda will still be selling stick shift accords?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, it’s hard to tell. Maybe, because Honda, as we, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re a Honda customer, you know this, Honda moves slowly. Like, they move slowly into

⏹️ ▶️ John hybrids. They haven’t really moved into electrics at all. Look at the interiors of their cars, look what they do, they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John on the cutting edge of any trends. So it’s possible they could still be selling them,

⏹️ ▶️ John But we’ll see. But someone will be. Like, I don’t think they’ll be gone from cars that

⏹️ ▶️ John are in my price range. They may be gone from cars that I want to buy, because I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to spend that much money on a car. So we’ll see. But Casey was making it

⏹️ ▶️ John sound like he would choose not to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a stick. No, no, no, no, no. That’s not what I’m saying. That may have been what it sounded like, but that was not at all what I was trying to say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will forever and always

⏹️ ▶️ John choose it. I think you, I totally believe you would choose not to get a stick. Especially like if you got electric. You’d be

⏹️ ▶️ John like, well, you know, stick is now not relevant anymore, and I’m excited about electric car. In six years, it could be that there

⏹️ ▶️ John are electric cars that are in a price you want to pay

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that have the performance you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want. That’s fair. I could see myself weighing the pros and cons

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and landing in an electric car because I feel like overall that is better. So I agree with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you there. But as long as I’m buying internal combustion engine cars, unless

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s just nothing that’s either in my price range, this is what you were just saying, it’s not in my price range, or maybe it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing but Econo crap boxes that I’m not interested in. And so this kind of middle of the road

⏹️ ▶️ Casey between the quote unquote, or I guess I should say like the M3s of the world, I was gonna say like Ferraris, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the M3s of the world and the like, I don’t know, what’s the really tiny

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Chevys of the world? I don’t even know what they’re called. But if there’s nothing in the like normal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey area, then maybe I wouldn’t buy a stick because there’s just nothing available that I’m interested in. But as long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as there’s at least one car I’m interested in that offers a stick, then that’s what I’ll be buying.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Matt Stauffer Well, congratulations. Jerry Holkins Thank you. Matt Stauffer You’re giving yourself a bunch of crap about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, but ultimately, this is cause for celebration. You’ve gone through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a long, horrible period of car drama with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your car breaking and failing, having a brief flirtation with Jeep Wranglers and other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco horrible other options.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Jerry Holkins Oh, oh, oh, oh. Matt Stauffer You

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey avoided many much more states. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I have news about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John this. Oh no. I apologize for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey interrupting your summary. Guess what happened, I think it was two days

⏹️ ▶️ Casey after I bought my car. So I get a text from my brother-in-law, this is Aaron’s older brother,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and he says, how did it start? I don’t remember, but it was something along the lines

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of, hey, is there any chance you can give me a ride to DC? And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I said, why? Oh, well, I think I’m going to buy a car there. He said, okay, where? Oh, at Lindsey

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jeep. Now this is the same, like, conglomerate that I bought my Volkswagen from. Long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey story short, I did not need to give him a ride there, but it turns out my brother-in-law, within 48 hours of me buying my Volkswagen,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he bought himself a brand new Jeep Wrangler. Four-door, soft top, automatic,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey turbo four-cylinder. Marco, go ahead and ask. **Mark

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Huffman laughs** What color

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was it? Jerry Holkins laughs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Turns out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s white. Mark Huffman laughs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Turns out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jerry Holkins laughs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is his

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco car,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John so you got to want to hear it. I had nothing to

⏹️ ▶️ John do with this. I’d love to do with his personality is he a Jeep Wrangler person.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He had a forerunner that was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John fairly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey old that he traded in and so It fits he has a forerunner. He himself has a forerunner and because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s white is he 80? No, he is a year older than I it’s 37

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be 38

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco at the very end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the you have lots of time left in life to buy white cars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My word but yeah I I when he pulled up in it because he you know swung by the house the day he got it and pulled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up and I was like oh my god it’s a white Wrangler Marco’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco lose it so in the family

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the family the extended family I should say you know this is again Aaron’s brother my brother-in-law in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the family is now a white Wrangler which I thought was quite funny but it’s very nice I took a small ride

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in it I haven’t driven it yet but I took a ride in it and again I mean it’s it’s a box on wheels so you have to take

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything with a grain of salt or you know keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything’s relative but it is quite nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and automatic too. It sounds awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, the turbo four is supposed to be really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I haven’t driven it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet. Yeah, a white automatic Jeep Wrangler. Mm-hmm.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’d forgotten that Aaron’s car wasn’t white because looking at this picture, it looks like a white car and I parked next to a blue car, but it’s not technically

⏹️ ▶️ John white, is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? It’s a very light silver.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a very light silver. This picture, it does look somewhat white, but it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a very light

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John silver. It

⏹️ ▶️ John looks like a gigantic white car against a miniature blue car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is more accurate than not, I’d say.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ultimately, look, even though you were a little on the fence about hatchbacks, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though I recognize that part of the reason you chose this was because of the combination of features it offered and not necessarily the look of it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re still a car person. Hot hatches are a major category of cars that lots of car enthusiasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very much love. You should know what it’s like to own one. This is totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in line with being a car enthusiast and being the kind of car enthusiast you are. You should own a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hot hatch at some point, even if you decide in three to five years it’s not for you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you want a different kind of a car-shaped car or something worse, then you can do that. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine, but you should get this out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of your system. Steve McLaughlin Yeah, I think that’s fair. In a final piece of miscellaneous car-related things,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Volkswagen allows you to put in an SD card to read

⏹️ ▶️ Casey music off of, which is funny because one of the things that I thought I might be losing leaving the BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was my on-board like 10 gig platter hard drive. It’s a miracle that thing still worked.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I had put a whole bunch of music on there. I mean, the car had Bluetooth and… I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forgot you could do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. And I actually really enjoyed it because most often than not, there’s, you know, there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey list of, I don’t know, maybe 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 albums or whatever that I listened to,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, on and off generally, or I’m listening to a podcast. It’s one or the other. Well, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought that all of that was going to have to go away, that I wouldn’t be able to load any music onto the card itself,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it turns out there’s SD card slots in the glove box so I can put music on. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been enjoying over the last day or two amassing. I bought a 64

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gig, what is it, a micro SD card that has the regular SD caddy,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco you know what I’m talking about? Yeah, the little dappers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah. And so I’ve been loading that up and it’s pretty neat. It’s fun to go through because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I usually use Spotify all the time. So, I’ve been going through my actual iTunes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey music where I actually own it and finding all of my music

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I haven’t really listened to in a while and loading it up to have in the car. So, I’m excited.

⏹️ ▶️ John It would be cool if the dashboard had a USB-C slot and then you could hook up an adapter for an SD card

⏹️ ▶️ John reader. Good God. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not really

⏹️ ▶️ John enough room on the car to have anything more than just two small USB-C. ports.

⏹️ ▶️ John And really with an adapter you can you can make that into anything so it’s actually better that there’s not an SD card slot there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s courage and progress.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But yeah, I hopefully will be able to see you guys sometime this year and you can check it out and tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me and make fun of me for my blue car. How does that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel? Actually those look pretty nice like in the pictures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and everything. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gotta say. No, it does look good. I’m very happy. Well, I’m happy it’s not white

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the name of good taste. I’m actually kind of sad it’s not white for joke potential?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know, I know. That makes me extremely happy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s always bird poop. I actually gave it its first bath today because of bird

⏹️ ▶️ John poop. I know, I could tell your driver was wet and that wasn’t because it rained.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey True

⏹️ ▶️ John story. I got your number Casey. I know what you’re up to all day, just sitting there washing that car over and over

⏹️ ▶️ Casey again. I would if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could. Meanwhile my car has an entire summer of upstate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mud and beach rain dirt on it because it has not been worth washing it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been like, you know, home for a few days and then going to park at the beach for three weeks. And it’s like, it’s not, I’m not going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wash my car only to go park it out in the rain for three weeks immediately afterwards.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I need Casey to come to my house cause I normally wash my car once a year, whether it needs it or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not. Usually,

⏹️ ▶️ John usually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey once a year,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey usually right before I go to Long

⏹️ ▶️ John Island. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I go

⏹️ ▶️ John to Long Island with a very clean car, but this year we didn’t even do the before long island wash

⏹️ ▶️ John so both cars are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco filthy oh god wait why would you do a why would you do a big car wash right before a long road trip because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the road trip it’ll get covered in bugs and stuff well i gotta

⏹️ ▶️ John look good for a long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey island but then it’s then so you get all that salt water spray onto your car and then you

⏹️ ▶️ John leave

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ John believe me the salt water spray is the least of your worries like you’re not gonna i’m not driving in the ocean

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s more salt that gets on my car during the winter than when i go to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey island oh i’m dying i’m dying

⏹️ ▶️ John so anyway I was looking for car detailing places around here, but I can’t find any good

⏹️ ▶️ John ones. I’m still looking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, does it matter if it’s good? Like if you’re only getting a car wash once a year, like does it really matter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how good

⏹️ ▶️ John it is? No, this is detailing. Like I want to do the interior too. I, you know, the interior will be vacuumed out in just a bit.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just want to do the whole, the whole work. It’s not really for my car, because my car, my car is actually pretty neat because I’m not a slob

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t eat in my car and I try to keep the kids under control. Uh, but but yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do wash the bird poop off my car. I can’t have that acidic bird poop sitting there for a long time. Why do

⏹️ ▶️ John the birds poop on my car? That’s a better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco question. If you really want to hear Casey die, one of the best decisions I ever made with car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cleanliness was to decide for myself, you know what, I’m not going to care

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the swirl marks that automatic car washes make on my car. I’m just going to go to automatic car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco washes whenever I need a car wash, and I’ll pay the 12 bucks or whatever it is, and I’ll go through the stupid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rollers, and if my car gets all swirly in the sun, I don’t care, because I’m never gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clean it any other way. I’ve tried, and I just don’t do it. I just never do it. And I never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanna be scared to go through an automatic car wash, to then, oh no, it’s gonna scratch my clear coat! Ah, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no! Like, no, I just want an occasionally clean car that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can get anywhere for 12 bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m okay with this one. I’ve never even been in an automatic car wash while driving in my own car.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wash it by hand when I need to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wash it. Was it during the M5 era or during the Golf, sorry, the Tesla

⏹️ ▶️ Casey era that you briefly got into doing your own hand washing and then decided that you hated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was the M5 era. And it was, I was, first of all, I’m just terrible at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hand washing. Like, as you know, because you were there and you had to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey fix my work. I’ve witnessed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this. Yeah, like, I’m just not very good at it. You have really short arms like a T-Rex. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hard to reach the top of the middle of the room. You need one of those long stick things

⏹️ ▶️ John to get to the middle of the roof. So does Casey for his giant car. You need a ladder to get on top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of that thing. Actually, I do need a ladder for that. That is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco true. And also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hand washing it. So I’m not very good at it. I might be able to get better if I really tried hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and cared really a lot, but I don’t. I’m not going to try that much harder. It takes a lot of time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It fills my driveway with suds and makes a huge mess. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then my shoes and my pants get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John all wet. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I go. But Adam loves it. For like a few minutes, but I’d rather just turn the sprinkler on and have him run through it, and then I can stay and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the pork stay dry. Like, that’s. And you know what Adam also loves? Going through a car wash.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, that’s actually way easier and way better. So, yeah, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hand washing, like if you’re like super into it, like you are Casey, like if it’s like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing you enjoy, that’s one thing. For me, it’s not a thing I enjoy. It was a means to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an end. like, oh, I need to wash my car and I can’t go through a car wash because my car is too nice and people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Casey will be unhappy if I go through a car wash. And I just decided no, I’m not going to care about that anymore because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’d much rather have a swirly clear coat car than to have a car that’s always dirty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’m afraid to bring it to a car wash and I don’t have time or skill to hand wash it myself.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, I’m going to blame Mike for my car not being washed this year. I’ve decided because the mental energy

⏹️ ▶️ John of the London trip really took out of me the excess mental energy I had to do because I would wash and

⏹️ ▶️ John wax like I would do both uh before my long island trip and this year just the London trip

⏹️ ▶️ John just took too much out of me I was like I can’t I can’t bring myself to do that

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re just gonna go down there with a dirty car it’s all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mike’s fault

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel deeply guilty that I’ve only been washing cars like once a month whereas

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I used to do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I used used to do it pretty much every weekend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John before every weekend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey before kids before kids and now I haven’t I if I’m lucky

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I get through it once a month and even that is a stretch. Do you do interior when you wash it to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sometimes probably once every two or three because even with the kids usually it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John They get messier I feel like the interior is more needs it more than the exterior on my cars just because they’re not my

⏹️ ▶️ John car my wife’s cargoes I don’t know what they do in there they They bring in rocks and dirt and sand

⏹️ ▶️ John and papers and like, I don’t even know. Yeah, the best is the kids that like, they,

⏹️ ▶️ John they push the door open with their dirty shoes. So you get like footprints on the doors. Yeah, I get

⏹️ ▶️ John that. They’re just, they’re monsters. And then, and then like, they’re, they’re disgusting fingers on the window. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John the window looks like, you know, someone has sneezed onto it a thousand times and smeared it with their hands because literally that’s what they’ve done.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, why can’t I see through this window anymore? Oh, children are in the backseat. It’s so gross.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Casey, was there ever a time when you washed your car more often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than you changed your sheets?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I, that’s not one of my assignments at the home,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco so… More

⏹️ ▶️ Casey often than your sheets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey changed? Probably, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guess so.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s pretty impressive. But he’s a night showerer, right? So it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey matter. Exactly, because I’m always clean. Because I’m always

⏹️ ▶️ John clean. In theory, those sheets should be getting cleaner every time you sleep in them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Bye.