Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

286: I Respect a Good Crust

Breakfast pastries, large online backups, and de-listing from podcast directories.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Pre-show: John’s vacation 🖼️
  2. CrashPlan bugs, alternatives
  3. Sponsor: Hover
  4. Part of a complete breakfast 🖼️
  5. John’s photo books
  6. AMD + TSMC
  7. More hot 14nm CPUs coming
  8. Define “whimsy”
  9. Golf R kickdown switch
  10. Sponsor: Betterment
  11. Podcast directory primer
  12. Alex Jones de-listing
  13. …except by Twitter
  14. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  15. #askatp: Dock preferences
  16. #askatp: Sleep hours
  17. #askneutral: Manual safety features
  18. Ending theme
  19. Neutral: Tesla dash redesign? 🖼️

Pre-show: John’s vacation

Chapter Pre-show: John's vacation image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, how was your Long Island vacation experience, getaway, etc? John Waller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s fine. So tell me all about your vacation. What was your favorite part?

⏹️ ▶️ John Mad Fientist We used to do the same things. I don’t know. I don’t have a favorite part. I like all the parts. We go to the

⏹️ ▶️ John beach. We eat food that we can only get there. I try

⏹️ ▶️ John to sleep late, take a lot of pictures. You know, the whole deal. Aaron

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Powell There were a couple of pictures that I saw. I think I saw them somewhere private,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like in a Slack somewhere or something like that. But there There were a couple of pictures I saw that appeared to me to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been taken with a big camera with big glass. But with you perilously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey close to being submerged in water, I was quite impressed by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your bravery in taking those pictures.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not bravery. That’s zoom range. Yeah. Almost, no, almost all of my pictures that I take

⏹️ ▶️ John of people in the ocean, I’m also standing up to my knees or waist, depending on the position of

⏹️ ▶️ John the waves in the ocean. And once again, I managed not to get knocked over. And once again, I managed to

⏹️ ▶️ John almost get knocked over many times.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco So it’s quite

⏹️ ▶️ John an adventure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Note to self, don’t lend any lenses to John.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the particular picture you’re talking about was not taken by me. It was taken by my brother with

⏹️ ▶️ John a not so great but waterproof camera.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And that’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ John zoom people who are saying, Wow, look at that zoom. Look at where the wave is this I would have to be like

⏹️ ▶️ John on the side of the person that it doesn’t matter. You know, I would have to be like just as far

⏹️ ▶️ John from the shore as they are, but 100 yards away to the left or right to use a zoom. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John if

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco uh

⏹️ ▶️ John all my shots, yes, of course, they’re with zoom, but that particular shot is someone who’s standing like three feet away alongside

⏹️ ▶️ John the person on the wave. So yeah, those you can look at, it’s hard to see on instagram because

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s where you saw that. But if you look close, you can see that camera is not that great. It’s not even as good as an iphone camera,

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like, but it is waterproof. And so that’s why you could actually get right next to those

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and looking again. I see what you’re saying, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John get like if you

⏹️ ▶️ John zoom in on it, it’s really not even as good as an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone. I saw it and I was like, Oh, that was because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I knew you’re you’re I don’t know if predilection is what I’m looking for, but you but your habit of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting into the water deeper than I would be brave enough to do in order to take these pictures, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are great. They’re great pictures. I’m not trying. I’m not trying to say you’re making a mistake. It’s just I have a bad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey history with water so I get scared easily.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John understandable. I think this year I came the closest to to losing it because the the waves

⏹️ ▶️ John on a couple days were particularly rough and they were the kind of waves where

⏹️ ▶️ John like where it’s like it’s even for a long time and you think I can just stand here and this is

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty much the level of the water and it’s just going to be those little rumblers coming in and then one you know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco smacker comes

⏹️ ▶️ John in and just like smacks you real hard and that’s you know I stumbled many

⏹️ ▶️ John times I didn’t go down I didn’t go down with one hand I didn’t have to hold the camera up above me but I stumbled

⏹️ ▶️ John many times and at this point it’s kind of like a death wish where it’s like go ahead knock me over I’ll just buy

⏹️ ▶️ John a fancier camera because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey apparently I can’t make myself buy

⏹️ ▶️ John a fancier camera for way more money but at this point we got destroyed I would be like all right well I guess I have to get a better camera now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have no choice there’s nothing I can do

⏹️ ▶️ John rationalization is powerful well I do always bring a backup camera with me so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah yeah I would ask why you don’t get something like a GoPro but the pictures it would be garbage on a GoPro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by comparison so I understand it but you’re braver than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John me

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah you can do video in some cases some things we had would have been good for video but I don’t take video on my

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy camera and I wasn’t about to do it on my iPhone either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m curious to what is your backup camera

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just my previous camera Tim Cook method Panasonic

⏹️ ▶️ John superzoom

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so what is you say you don’t have a favorite part you know i’m not asking you to pick your favorite child although i bet you that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exists and i won’t ask you who it is but you don’t have any particular favorite part everything is just its own

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perfect special snowflake

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t know i mean maybe the pies i have to pick something

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the pies

⏹️ ▶️ John because i’ve recently been dieting so it was nice to all diets were off on long island for the most part

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s the particular place they I like to get pies on Long Island. And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so to be clear, we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not talking pizza. We’re talking like savory or maybe even sweet pies.

⏹️ ▶️ John Dessert pies, blueberry pie. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I don’t know why

⏹️ ▶️ John we got some weird like cherry raspberry pie to whatever. I’m all about the blueberry.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, how good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was not the answer I expected at all.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I like I like all the parts,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, but is Long Island known for pies?

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, this is just a particular place that we got pies. when I was growing up, the place is out east and

⏹️ ▶️ John where I go out east is like really close to that place. Where I live was not close to it, so it was quite a trek to ever

⏹️ ▶️ John go out and get those pies. But now when we go on vacation, we’re right there. It’s like five minutes away. So

⏹️ ▶️ John just go there and buy like three or four pies and just eat pie as a dessert after every meal.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like an entire one? No, just a slice. Like you have breakfast and you have your breakfast pie. You

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco have lunch and you have your lunch pie. Well, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, if you have pie in the house, you have to have it for breakfast. That’s obvious.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s this fruit in it. It’s part of nutritious breakfast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, first of all, I want to set aside this for a moment. Has anybody ever actually eaten

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the, quote, complete breakfast that breakfast cereals always advertise they were a part of?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s where it’s like a banana.

⏹️ ▶️ John Probably. Like it was mostly just fruit and stuff, right? It was like fruit. And you had the bowl cereal and you had fruit

⏹️ ▶️ John in the cereal. Then you had separate fruit. And then you had like a muffin or something. I bet people have eaten that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And like a glass of milk and a glass of orange juice and water. And they were like… I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think you need the glass of milk because that goes in the cereal, but the orange juice, yeah. I feel like the

⏹️ ▶️ John breakfast they give you on British Airways has a lot of stuff in it. I feel like that could be a complete breakfast.

⏹️ ▶️ John Matt Stauffer laughs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, probably. All right, so going back to the pies now, I have one more question about the pies. I noticed in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco travels on Long Island that for some reason they add sesame

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seeds to pizza crust frequently. No, they do not

⏹️ ▶️ John or should not. I don’t know why they do this. this. No one should ever do that and if they’re doing that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey ruining Long Island. They need to stop. No one ever did that when I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco was

⏹️ ▶️ John growing up there and I’m I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco very

⏹️ ▶️ John angry and sad to learn that you found that exists anywhere on Long Island.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did yeah and honestly I am in agreement with you I was not a fan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of sesame seeds on pizza crust. Now I’m curious do they add sesame seeds to the pie crust as well?

⏹️ ▶️ John No I’ve never I mean unless it’s part of the pie of some weird kind but no. Where were you finding pizza

⏹️ ▶️ John with besides this is very upsetting to me I’m already upset by your weird uncooked cheese crap thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that you get on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s called cold cheese and boom boom John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John I know I make a lot of allowances for what I call East End pizza because things get weird when you go

⏹️ ▶️ John out there and it’s like all right well you know you have nice beaches you have to sacrifice something and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the ability to

⏹️ ▶️ John be ready to make normal pizza fine but sesame seeds in the crust no

⏹️ ▶️ John they need to stop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what makes a good blueberry pie to you?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. Have I had any blueberry pie other than this one? I don’t know. I mean, like this things you get out east

⏹️ ▶️ John in the summer on the island, you want stuff that like is grown on the farm right there. Like this is this is like a farm

⏹️ ▶️ John stand type thing and they grow the blueberries and they be, you know, all the different fruits that are put in

⏹️ ▶️ John there. So they’re fresh. It’s got a I don’t know. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve seen what blueberry pie is like. It’s just blueberries. There’s not really lots of ingredients in It’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John pie crust with tons and tons of blueberries in it. And that’s it. Like it can’t be too runny. I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John it has to be have some consistency hold up. It’s got to taste like blueberries and it’s just wall to wall

⏹️ ▶️ John purple blue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blueberries. Top and bottom crust or just bottom crust and open top

⏹️ ▶️ Marco top and bottom

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lattice or not lattice.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, this place, this place is not lattice, but I, I don’t, you know, I don’t mind one way or the other.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, I, I’m not a, I can’t, I don’t know if I’ve ever had a blueberry pie to be completely honest, but I love

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple pie.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’ve never had a blueberry pie? I don’t know if I have. They don’t have them at cookout.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You can buy one in

⏹️ ▶️ John the supermarket from like Entenmann’s or whatever. They’re not, they’re not rare.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I, I, I actually don’t terribly love blueberries. I, there are certain scenarios where I love

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blueberries, like a blueberry muffin, for example, but I do love apple pie. I love, love, love, love, love

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apple pie. And I have an interesting relationship with the lattice top because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think as a work of art, it is deeply impressive and it’s clearly very intense to put

⏹️ ▶️ Casey together and do properly and whatnot. But the crust is one of the best parts of a pie and I feel like I’m missing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out on half the darn crust. If it’s a lattice pie, I want the whole pie crust up top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and on the bottom.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, to me, I prefer crumble pies. I respect a good crust

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Tiff’s actually really good at baking pies and her crusts are awesome and it makes me respect them even more. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also really like a crumble pie, where the top crust is replaced by clumps of brown sugar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and butter, basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco And, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, like a coffee cake kind of thing. But you can have a crumble top pie of almost any kind of fruit pie, and it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco works pretty well. And it is totally ridiculous in the sense of, here’s more blobs of fat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and sugar to add to your pie. But, boy, does it make a good pie. And I feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s hard to get a good crust, top and bottom all the way through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for most bakers. They can be okay, but it’s rare that they’re good because it’s really hard,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as I know from Tiff doing it at home, it’s really hard to get both top and bottom crust cooked properly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco without burning one or undercooking one or having it get too soggy or anything like that. And so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much easier, the crumble pies seem to be more consistent for me. You can get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty much any crumble pie and it’s probably gonna be really good.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s why you buy your pies. The place I buy my pies from, top and bottom crust always cooked all the way through, always even, always

⏹️ ▶️ John good. Although, like I said, some people don’t like crust. Like I’ll see even people in my family, you give them a slice

⏹️ ▶️ John of pie, they’ll eat it, and in the end, they’ll be like, the sort of the rim of the crust left. Oh gosh. Monsters.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or they’ll just like eat out the filling and just leave the crust behind. It’s like, what are you even doing? So, not everyone is all

⏹️ ▶️ John on board

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pie. In all fairness, I see why people can get there. Because there are bad crusts out there. Like if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a really good crust, I’m eating the crust as much as I’m eating the pie. Yep. But if it’s like a really crappy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crust, or it’s really overcooked or stale, so it’s kind of gummy when you eat to the end, like the little folded over part.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can understand why maybe one bad crust ruins somebody forever. I don’t know, man.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know when Erin makes her annual apple pie or apple pies, if it’s a good year, she

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has some sort of ridiculous procedure where certain pieces of the top get covered in aluminum

⏹️ ▶️ Casey foil at certain stages for certain stretches of time to fight exactly what you’re talking about, Marco. It’s the same story.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, making a good pie crust, top and bottom, is hard. It takes some very advanced baking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco skill to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So anyway, I was not expecting the pie to be the highlight of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your beach vacation, but you know what, you do you, John. Whipped cream, ice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cream, or neither? Ice cream. Definitely ice cream. Vanilla only or any flavor permissible?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh, vanilla only. For me,

⏹️ ▶️ John vanilla only. Yes. But I mean, other flavors would be fine, but I want vanilla. If they only have strawberry, fine. If they only

⏹️ ▶️ John have chocolate, I want vanilla

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though. See, to me, I think an apple pie, it’s gotta be vanilla ice cream. Any other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of pie, I usually prefer whipped cream.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, so much so, I was thinking about this when I was having the pie. I always said, we get the pie and we also get the

⏹️ ▶️ John ice cream, right? And I was thinking, if we didn’t have the ice cream, I would forego the pie and wait until

⏹️ ▶️ John we had the ice cream.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even want the pie. I don’t even want the pie without the ice cream because I feel like it’s a waste of a piece of pie. Wow, you

⏹️ ▶️ John must really hate pie. No, I want I want the combination. I don’t want to waste the

⏹️ ▶️ John pie in a suboptimal eating arrangement. Right. Oh, my

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco God. There’s limited

⏹️ ▶️ John pie.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re there for a limited time. Why waste a piece that’s, you know, not going to be as good as it could

⏹️ ▶️ John be? And I like a lot of ice cream.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, to me, I like I like fresh whipped cream that’s that only has a little tiny bit of sugar in it, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me, like having having a mostly not sweetened whipped cream helps balance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out the very sweet pie. I like the contrast between the two. Whereas ice cream

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so sweet, it’s kind of like sugar bomb on top of sugar bomb.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve got to try the different pies. Like the, what was it? Raspberry cherry we had was

⏹️ ▶️ John actually a little bit tart, right? So the whole pie, the crust is savory and the filling is tart and then the ice cream is sweet. It makes

⏹️ ▶️ John a great combination. Hmm, I have much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to learn.

CrashPlan bugs, alternatives

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s start with some follow-up. Michael Aldretti,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry Michael if that’s wrong, writes in, Hey guys, I just got to the crash plan part of the latest episode and I literally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just this week went through solving the problems that John mentions, missing menu bar, etc. I have some notes. According

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Michael, you stole the Java client, John, and it’s running out of memory and parts of the client are dying, and there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey never anything in the log or history about this, to which Michael grumbles. You can check

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this by launching the main client app and then pressing Command-Option-C to to bring up the console, then type Java MX

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see your memory allocation. Double the number and then type Java MX with the new number

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with an M at the end to increase the memory allocation. The client will unload itself and then reload the engine, et cetera. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, or I didn’t really trust it to do all the right things and ended up rebooting too, but you might be able to skip that.

⏹️ ▶️ John So he was right. I do still have the Java thing, even though it looks different. And it was dying frequently,

⏹️ ▶️ John as I mentioned, and I would have to like relaunch it and whatever. I didn’t know what the deal was because there was no indication of what the problem

⏹️ ▶️ John was. this console thing, command option C, it’s not even in a menu bar item as far as I can tell. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to know this. And then it gives you this ugly little command line GUI thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not even a shell, it’s just like a box where you type things. Anyway, I increased my memory allocation and now

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t crash anymore and it’s backing up. And that leads me to my

⏹️ ▶️ John second, the second follow-up item, which is an update about me and crash plan. So finally, the thing is running consistently

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t have to like babysit it and you know, stop it from crashing or whatever because the amount I increased

⏹️ ▶️ John in memory was fine. It hasn’t crashed since, so thumbs up, right? And it’s backing up, but

⏹️ ▶️ John for some reason, it thinks it needs to back up way more than I think it needs to back up. It doesn’t think it needs to back up everything. It’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John like it forgot about my backups. It knows that it mostly has stuff backed up, but it’s backing up like hundreds

⏹️ ▶️ John of gigabytes, and I don’t have hundreds of gigabytes that’s new, so it’s confused about something. And the second

⏹️ ▶️ John thing is that the time estimates that were given me were terrible. First of all, it’s time estimating.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is always a hard problem. Like, regular people don’t understand I can’t look at computers tell me how long it’s going to take. It’s because

⏹️ ▶️ John not only does the computer not know, nobody knows, like no human knows either. Like there, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not it’s not predictable. If you do the naive thing and say, just look at, you know, the rate you’ve been uploading over the last five

⏹️ ▶️ John minutes and assume that will continue and put a number up, you get ridiculous numbers and it changes all the time. So I’m looking at crash

⏹️ ▶️ John plan updating, I’m letting it run for a day or two. Sometimes it says, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John will be done updating and you know, 15 days like, well, that sucks. But you know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hundreds of gigabytes, man, it’ll finish. Then I’ll come back and I’ll say, should be finished uploading

⏹️ ▶️ John in 4.1 years. And I say, well, that is no good. And then I’ll come back

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’ll say, you know, two weeks. And it’s like, well, what’s the deal? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John like, it doesn’t even have like a thing where you can see the rate, you can work on the activity monitor to see how fast it’s uploading.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the point is it never dropped below like two weeks or like 10 days or whatever the lowest number it ever is. And

⏹️ ▶️ John frequently it jumps up into the years. And so that’s my way of telling like how, you know, how fast is

⏹️ ▶️ John it going? How long does it think this is going to take? I’m like, well, this is no good. I don’t like the crash plan.

⏹️ ▶️ John It, you know, seems to think it needs to upload more than I think it needs to upload. And I don’t like that it’s uploading slowly

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t like the razor variable. So let me look at some alternatives. So one that somebody tweeted at me

⏹️ ▶️ John this week was spider Oak, which I’d heard of before. And it’s been around for a while. They had a sale or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was like, get unlimited backup for an unlimited number of computers for life, for

⏹️ ▶️ John a rate, and the rate was like $180 a year, which sounds like a lot until you realize you can do all your computers, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s unlimited storage for all of them. So I’m like, well, that might be a good deal. But before I pay that, let me try the SpiderOak client.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I install SpiderOak. I don’t have it back on my entire computer, but I just pointed it at my

⏹️ ▶️ John photo library, and I say, go, start backing up. Let me see how you’re gonna do. And it spent

⏹️ ▶️ John like a day and a half just in the phase where it’s like trying to find files that need to be backed up.

⏹️ ▶️ John never got to the point where I was even uploading anything. Well, sorry, Spider Oak, but I’m glad I didn’t pay $180

⏹️ ▶️ John to try to get that good deal because I feel like I feel like I just have too many files and it was just taking

⏹️ ▶️ John too long. Uh, so I gave up on that. And then finally, I don’t even know if they’re a sponsor of this episode,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I’ve been using back ways since well before they were a sponsor and I use it on my computer all the time. This is of course my wife’s computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t use back ways there because I wanted to back up network drive from it and crash plan does that. But crash

⏹️ ▶️ John plan was in the doghouse. So I said, let me try backblaze. I put black blaze on her computer. And

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the cool things about backblaze that isn’t mentioned in the ad reads, but is a thing that exists is

⏹️ ▶️ John that you can manually control how fast it uploads, basically

⏹️ ▶️ John like how many resources it uses, right? So by default, it just automatically like throttles based on your activity and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you’re in my situation, and you say, look, no one’s going to be using this computer, we’re all going to sleep, just upload

⏹️ ▶️ John as fast as you possibly can. You have a couple of settings. You have like a slider for how fast you want to upload.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can disable all the throttles. And then there’s also a number of threads that you can pick.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the maximum is 20. I wish I actually went higher. So I just cranked everything up as high as it can go, put it down to 20 threads

⏹️ ▶️ John and just like let it run. And it has no problem saturating my upload pipe, which is not that big.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have very fast files. I think mine is like 50 megabits up, which is, you know, like a half

⏹️ ▶️ John or a third of the maximum file speeds to offer or whatever, but it’s way more than

⏹️ ▶️ John any other service was getting. And so I’m like, well, I think Backblaze wins here. So I ended up paying for the

⏹️ ▶️ John business group thing for Backblaze. It’s just a billing convenience. I don’t think it’s any cheaper or more

⏹️ ▶️ John expensive than anything else, but it’s like I already had an account at Backblaze, so I just added my wife’s computer to the account. And now

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m stuck kind of thinking what I’m gonna do with my Synology. Of course, Backblaze will let you back up directly from the Synology to their B2

⏹️ ▶️ John storage, and I just have to do the math to see what that looks like. I still might end up just having CrashPlan

⏹️ ▶️ John do my Synology. So basically running Backblaze for the computer and the attached drives, and then running

⏹️ ▶️ John CrashPlan for the Synology, because the CrashPlan deal I have is like $2.50 a month or something, it’s really cheap,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’ve already paid for like a year of it. So anyway, all this is to say that

⏹️ ▶️ John my backup stuff is a little bit in flux, but from my brief testing, Backblaze

⏹️ ▶️ John is still the upload speed champ, and I paused it during the podcast, but

⏹️ ▶️ John as soon as we’re done with this, I’m just gonna have it re-upload again. It claims it’s going to upload like three and

⏹️ ▶️ John a half terabytes per day. That seems optimistic to me, but it is way better

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey than 4.1

⏹️ ▶️ John years or whatever CrashPlan was saying before I paused it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, whenever I tried CrashPlan, which admittedly it’s been a while, but whenever I tried CrashPlan,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would always just slow down to a crawl as it did my initial upload and it was never gonna complete.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was gonna take years and just never complete. And I heard all the same tips that people are yelling at you about Java

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limits and everything like that, and I just didn’t care. Like I tried a few of them, they didn’t work. I’m like, all right, I can’t spend any more time on this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’ve been using Backblaze for a while now. They’re not sponsoring this episode, but they are our sponsor frequently, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we should just close that as you did. But I was using them before they were a sponsor because this all happened back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then, and boy are they so much better at the upload speeds and everything. Like it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco night and day different. The only reason I think to not use Backblaze is if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want network drive backups. That’s it. Like, I can’t think of any other advantage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to anyone else has over them. Like, they’re just so much better for every in every other way.

⏹️ ▶️ John And back back ways is also picky about what it back up to like that it refuses to back up the user directory and stuff like

⏹️ ▶️ John that. And you used to be able to override that. But now it’s either much more difficult or impossible. So there are

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you mean like Unix user

⏹️ ▶️ John directory like usr usr like it’s a whole bunch of directories that it just won’t back up into that I find that annoying because

⏹️ ▶️ John my user local is the thing I want back up because I compile all my software and put it there and the fact that it won’t back up user local for

⏹️ ▶️ John me is kind of annoying. I used to override it when you could back when you could and now you can’t. So there are other reasons to look

⏹️ ▶️ John elsewhere. But for what I’m doing in this case, which is basically backing up photos and plain files on

⏹️ ▶️ John my wife’s computer, it’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I would be on backblaze would have been on backblaze forever ago were it not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me really wanting to back up my sonology. And maybe the writer answer is to do what you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying, John and double dip and pay both backblaze and crash plan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or

⏹️ ▶️ John you can use the B2 storage. And like, I don’t quite know. It’s probably some business model that makes us not profitable. But like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, so backblaze and crash plan and a bunch of other things will run on your NAS. Like they’ll run. You don’t have to run on a computer

⏹️ ▶️ John with the NAS. Mountable run directly on your NAS. It’s just that backblaze. The solution there is you have to pay

⏹️ ▶️ John them for the storage, right? So they have this B2 storage is like S3, but a little bit cheaper.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco A lot cheaper. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you have to pay them per byte for your storage, which is not like backblazing

⏹️ ▶️ John your computer, which is, as the tagline for the ad goes, unlimited, unthrottled. You don’t have to pay

⏹️ ▶️ John for your storage. You just pay a flat amount a month and you can upload everything. I guess they assume

⏹️ ▶️ John that servers and NASs can just have so much storage that it doesn’t make sense to them financially. But

⏹️ ▶️ John for me, there’s not that much more. I’m backing up maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John two and a half terabytes on my NAS and like two and a half terabytes for my computer. So it’s about the same. It’s just that

⏹️ ▶️ John one of them, because it’s not a computer, will charge me to store that all the time. The other one won’t. So I kinda

⏹️ ▶️ John wish I had a, financially it’s a better deal to do crash plan

⏹️ ▶️ John for the NAS. But I’m gonna do the math on Backblaze B2 and see if I can just

⏹️ ▶️ John stomach whatever’s gonna charge and then I’ll just cancel the crash plan contract when it comes up for renewal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve actually been doing, I don’t know if this helps at all for your needs, probably not, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve actually been trying B2 using the ARC backup program, A-R-Q, that’s a pretty popular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac backup app. ARC is cool because you can set tons of different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco storage services as your endpoint for ARC. ARC is just the backup

⏹️ ▶️ Marco client that runs on Mac OS. It backs up to this documented format

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in case they ever got out of business or whatever, but I wouldn’t really be too worried about that. And basically, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a way for you to have a little more control over what gets backed up. So if you wanted to do something like what John was saying earlier about how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Backblaze doesn’t back up certain directories, if you wanted more control over it, you could use Arc to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back up to Backblaze B2 or Amazon S3, or although I wouldn’t recommend this, Amazon Glacier,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or all sorts of other things, Dropbox, I think Google Drive, Amazon OneDrive, all this crazy stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I decided, I was having my Backblaze client, I was running basically the same installation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the Backblaze client for something like six or seven years and it was starting to get a little bit weird with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory usage and their recommendation when this happens is usually to kind of like just blow it away and start over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or to blow away certain log files and start over and so whatever else like the case was I had this problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I was going to start over so I figured while I’m starting over let me try ARC let me you know try that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to B2. It did it is costing me a little bit more because of how much I’m storing there because I’m storing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot compared to the flat rate of the regular client. But it’s kind of nice. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, it isn’t that much more. I forgot exactly what it is, but it’s a small amount more plus the cost of ARC itself,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I think is like $30 or $40. And then what’s nice about it is you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a user, I believe you’re licensed on any number of computers you own for ARC.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, it’s just per user licensing instead of per computer licensing. So I run ARC on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my desktop and on my laptop. And Backblaze has a feature where you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco log into their web app and start a restore for any of your computers onto any device you’re on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if you forget a file on your laptop or something or forget a file at home while you’re traveling you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go fetch it. Well Arc, if this is a thing that happens to you a lot, Arc makes it even faster and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco easier because it’s doing all that with this native interface. You do all that from your Mac with this little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tree view thing. It’s not incredibly fast to restore because it has to download a bunch of catalog

⏹️ ▶️ Marco files before it does, but it is really nice to have all that in like this one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app that you can run on all your computers really. So on my laptop, I run ARC and I can browse my desktop’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco files and folders right there. On my desktop, I can do the same thing to the laptop vice versa, you know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s actually, it’s a pretty nice setup. Again, it is more expensive if you’re backing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up more than probably about a terabyte or so, but it’s kind of fun as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an option. I’m not sure I would recommend it to everybody, but if you’re a nerd and you like that kind of control,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ARC plus B2 is a pretty good combo.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, my crash plan account, last I looked, is backing up something like seven

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and a half terabytes. Now, to be clear, most of that is stuff on the Synology, and a tremendous portion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of that is media, that a lot of which, almost all of which, I could probably recreate, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the whole idea of my backup solution is I don’t want to have to be, you know, not discreet, but selective,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess is a better word for it, about what I’m backing up. And so to do that on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey B2 is like 40 bucks a month, where I’m paying CrashPlan like 60

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bucks a year or something like that. And so if I were, if I was an adult who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually did the right thing, I would move to Pack Blaze because I have no doubt that it is better in every measurable way,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey except being more expensive, which makes sense because it’s better. So I don’t know. I don’t know what I’m gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do.

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Part of a complete breakfast

Chapter Part of a complete breakfast image.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve looked up what it meant to be part of a complete breakfast. So tell me more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you know this is so this is from our pre show here we’re talking about how like I was asking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about how like the cereal commercials for breakfast cereal in like the 80s and 90s always advertise cereal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as being part of this complete breakfast and it would show a picture of the cereal next to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a bowl of fruit and some yogurt and some milk and some juice and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all this stuff and I I don’t think anybody has ever actually eaten that breakfast before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco except maybe John on British Airways but for the most part which they wouldn’t include cereal there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like no one has ever eaten the complete breakfast that cereal was always advertise as being a part of.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everyone I know, including everyone in my family, just ate the cereal and the milk. That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was their complete breakfast. So apparently, this was kind of a coordinated advertising

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing between like Post and Kellogg back in the 70s or so, where—and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco please don’t write it in because it doesn’t matter—but apparently it was because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cereal being mostly, you know, regular carbs plus a lot of sugar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and very little any other nutrition is part of what your body needs in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sense that your body needs carbs, fats, and proteins. And so they’re…and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they’re really saying as being part of this complete breakfast is that cereal alone is not giving you everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need. So it was kind of a way to cover their butts and say, you should be eating other things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not just cereal. The funny part about this, though, is that if you look at the pictures of, like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screenshots in the commercials and everything of what they would advertise as being the complete breakfast,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would be so much healthier for you and would lose no nutritional value if you took

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cereal out of it and just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John ate the rest of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the stuff in the picture.

⏹️ ▶️ John It

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco could be fair

⏹️ ▶️ John to cereal. They did fortify it with vitamins, so you’re not just getting sugar.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John minerals.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. They also put that to the milk, though, so you didn’t need it. And if you eat everything else in the picture, you’re getting that. I know,

⏹️ ▶️ John well they’re just trying to prevent you from getting scurvy. I forgot my word.

John’s photo books

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on. All right, John to continue the John Syracuse hour.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tell me about your photo book PDFs I actually meant to ask you then I forgot about it. Did you already

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make your photo book from last week or no?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I didn’t 2008 book just arrived when I got back. I haven’t done the 2018. I

⏹️ ▶️ John still have to do all that I think they move the date back from September 1st to September 30th Every time you click on a

⏹️ ▶️ John on a book in the sidebar It pops up a dialogue like every time it pops it up to say just so you know, blah

⏹️ ▶️ John blah I think it’s September 30th based on how many times I’ve seen that dialogue. But anyway, I got to make those. Um, oh, and I

⏹️ ▶️ John think I’m basically full up on photos now. Like I’m down to double digit gigabytes

⏹️ ▶️ John for a free space on my wife’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hard drive. And I’ve,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh my, I’ve spent a lot of time in like, uh, disc inventory,

⏹️ ▶️ John X slash 10 or grand perspective or Daisy disc or all those things that show you where your space is used. And I’ve really,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve rung every ounce out of this thing and there’s not really any more room I can get back.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I couldn’t bring myself to buy a big disc and I wasn’t ready to buy a new iMac because I think

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re going to come up with the five case with T2. So I don’t want to buy for that. So I just bought a one terabyte

⏹️ ▶️ John drive because my photo library is 600 gigs almost exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John So one terabyte drive should give me enough breathing room to get to the

⏹️ ▶️ John new iMac for her. And that of course will be direct attached. So back plays will back that up. So I’m fine. So anyway, I’m doing that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, so about the photo book PDF, someone mentioned this a couple of shows back that I didn’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John if you, and I’ve been thinking about this, I’ve got these photo books that I made and yes, they’re printed and they’re on the shelf and we look through them as a family and

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re fun and their paper and everything. But like, what if my house burns down or floods or I lose those books in some

⏹️ ▶️ John way? I put a lot of time into them like selecting the pictures and deciding how they’re going to be cropped

⏹️ ▶️ John and doing like the layout. So like pictures go in pairs on pages that face each other that, you know, cute and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s an art to doing it. And I spent like a really long time doing this for all these books,

⏹️ ▶️ John cumulatively. I didn’t want to lose that, right? And I’m like, well, what if when Apple gets rid of the built-in feature, like all my books

⏹️ ▶️ John go away too. How do I, how do I preserve this in some way? And apparently,

⏹️ ▶️ John in photos and Apple’s photos app, you can select a book and basically print it to PDF. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t, it’s cool. It doesn’t really like, for example, the cover, you have a front cover, back cover, and

⏹️ ▶️ John then flaps like the dust jacket flaps. When you do the PDF, the picture on the dust jacket

⏹️ ▶️ John flap just becomes like a regular, you know, like page

⏹️ ▶️ John with just a picture floating in the middle of it. So it’s not exactly how, you can’t just take that PDF and print it and get the book back,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it will do the pages in the order they’re in with the pictures, crop the way they are.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think at full res as far as I can tell, like they’re big PDFs. So I printed all

⏹️ ▶️ John mine to PDF and, you know, save them into a little folder and

⏹️ ▶️ John that at least lets me know that if I lose my books, I’ll at least know which pictures I used, how they were cropped,

⏹️ ▶️ John and if I never even wanted to print them again, I could just look through the PDFs. So that was a nice thing to know.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so if Apple does the wrong thing and deletes all my books after they get rid of their built-in feature, at least I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John have them backed up somewhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And have you seen in the news over the last couple of weeks, there were a couple articles, I think on 9to5, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have basically outed the company that was printing these books for Apple all this time. And then also a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think a second company that wasn’t the ones printing the books for Apple, but has made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plugins for photos app that will mimic the exact same layouts. Have you looked at those?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep, I had all that information back from like three shows ago, like the supposed one that printed their books.

⏹️ ▶️ John I hope like that’s going to be my first go to is the one that was actually printing their books because

⏹️ ▶️ John I assume that they will literally print like the same exact product, it’ll be exactly the same. I applaud

⏹️ ▶️ John the company saying we have a business opportunity here. Let’s mimic those books. Let’s give you, offer you the same size or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re not going to be exactly the same. Like they’ll do as good as they can, but they’re not going to be exactly the same. So I have no idea if the quality is going to be as good.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have no idea if they’re going to be exactly the same size down to the millimeter. I have no idea if they’re going to use the exactly the same binding technology.

⏹️ ▶️ John So definitely going with what is supposedly the contractor that

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s been using. But hopefully my plan is to print every single book I ever want to print. And then the only

⏹️ ▶️ John time I’ll have to pick one of those vendors is next year, next summer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, good luck with that. I hope it works out.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anonymous writes in to tell us AMD’s top-end processors will be manufactured in TSMC’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 7nm process node, as seen at the Enentech link that we’ll put in the show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes. This is a pretty exciting time for AMD, since they can kind of compete with Intel,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey since they finally have access to a competitive process node. They won’t be competitive with GlobalFoundries, and they know that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they would prefer to use GlobalFoundries, since it would be their fab, but they can’t and shouldn’t for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasons. In terms of timeline of TSMC 7nm equivalent node, as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey far as I can tell TSMC is in the lead, closely followed by Samsung, Global Foundry slightly behind, and Intel maybe even behind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, which is kind of unknown since it’s hard to tell with all the delays of Intel 10nm.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s something we didn’t talk about, you know, how about Intel would be falling behind and Apple’s able to manufacture its phone

⏹️ ▶️ John chips at TSMC 7nm. Well, AMD now gets to lead Intel too, because

⏹️ ▶️ John even though they’re fat, they mean there you know there are global foundries there fab amd used to fab its own chips and it split

⏹️ ▶️ John the company into the fab part and the other part uh and so the fab

⏹️ ▶️ John part is called global foundries and it’s not at seven nanometer so but amd doesn’t have to use its

⏹️ ▶️ John x fab like they’re independent companies now so amd has chosen not to use global foundries

⏹️ ▶️ John and and now has the freedom to use whoever has the best fab and is offering to do it so uh

⏹️ ▶️ John you know seven nanometer xeon like ryzen based chips would be attractive

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple in theory, if Apple ever decided to go that route.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do you think Verizon has a chance like do you think or just AMD chips in general? Do you think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that a reasonable next step for Apple instead of going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco arm necessarily could they go to AMD chips? Are they competitive enough?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they’re totally competitive enough and especially not just like competitive enough the way they are like because Intel chips are

⏹️ ▶️ John better at this point. If Apple went with them the infusion of money right

⏹️ ▶️ John into into AMD for those chips because Apple is a good customer they’ll buy your most expensive stuff right

⏹️ ▶️ John and they don’t they can absorb some kind of a premium and Apple tends to drive its manufacturers

⏹️ ▶️ John to make like what what it wants and end up being powerful stuff I think would work out just fine the question is does

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple want to keep going down that route or they just because that still doesn’t give them the kind of control they would get even if they made

⏹️ ▶️ John their own arm chips let alone like their own, you know, other architecture chip. So it is.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of like saying Intel is not doing it. It’s like when they switch to power BC like, Oh, power BCs,

⏹️ ▶️ John IBM is not doing the job for us and Motorola is not making anything we want. So let’s switch to Intel. You go

⏹️ ▶️ John to the better horse like oh Intel is a big improvement, but you don’t really get much more control. You’re just switching to

⏹️ ▶️ John a different vendor. Apple doing arm that chips that it makes itself. That’s more

⏹️ ▶️ John control. So rising or an AMD thing is 100% viable. I think, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if, if they decide to go that direction and really commit to it, but it doesn’t give them the control that we all think

⏹️ ▶️ John they crave in this realm.

More hot 14nm CPUs coming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And speaking of all of these fabs the Intel core i9 9900 K great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey model name Apparently this relates to digital foundry

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because of a YouTube video. Tell me about this

⏹️ ▶️ John digital foundry is the YouTube channel. I watch it It’s a gaming related thing. They talk

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco PS 5

⏹️ ▶️ John is gonna be like and they analyze video games But anyway, they’re also talking they do PC gaming too. So they were talking about what’s Intel’s

⏹️ ▶️ John next line of chips We talked about this last show that they were gonna go 14 the animator still right? But, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John they just went to six core. They’re going to go to eight core and the I nine will be a core with hyper threading in the I seven

⏹️ ▶️ John will be a core without hyper threading. And it’s just like those just keep adding cores and 14 nanometers. How are they? How are they going

⏹️ ▶️ John to do that? How can they keep adding course? I go. These are desktop chips we’re talking about now, laptop stuff, right? So there is a much

⏹️ ▶️ John bigger budget for power, but at a certain point it becomes a little bit ridiculous. And the one detail this

⏹️ ▶️ John is I think it’s all like informed speculation like these are unofficial announcements from Intel and plans could change yada yada.

⏹️ ▶️ John but this is an open secret of what they’re doing. The i9

⏹️ ▶️ John apparently will have soldered heat spreader. Like it won’t be like you buy the chip and you put thermal paste on

⏹️ ▶️ John it and you shove a heat spreader on it and you put a heat sink on top of it. They will solder it on, like it’ll be metal to metal

⏹️ ▶️ John soldered connection for the heat pipe from Intel. Now, it doesn’t mean Apple’s gonna use those, or maybe Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ John because they always have custom cooling solutions and stuff like that, but it just goes to show the lengths that Intel

⏹️ ▶️ John is willing to go to to say, Can we actually cool a chip on 14 nanometers with eight cores and

⏹️ ▶️ John hyper-threading and all this stuff? What can we do to make it so that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s more viable in normal-sized desktop PC cases? They’re pulling out all the stops. Let’s

⏹️ ▶️ John solder the heat spreader on. Get rid of the thermal paste. Nothing is a better contact than metal-to-metal.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think it would be great for Apple to use one of those in a Mac Pro in 2019.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Speaking of that, I have my new 13-inch MacBook Pro, And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if I’ve used it enough to really have a solid opinion on it yet, but although so far I will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say it’s generally positive. But one thing I have noticed, which I told you guys in Slack earlier, is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it really is noticeably warm. Like, this is a generation of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers. I would say probably every 2018 and probably 2019, maybe even 2020 computer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s probably gonna be kind of warmer than we expect because, as we mentioned, Intel is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shoving more cores into these chips without shrinking the process, and so it’s gonna be, they’re really kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of pushing thermal boundaries here. And while my laptop has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no signs of throttling or anything else, it seems able to maintain its

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thermal load when necessary. But it does run

⏹️ ▶️ Marco noticeably warm. It’s pretty warm most of the time that it’s in use.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If I disable turbo boost, that helps a lot, but it still runs warm. And I have a feeling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this will apply to every computer in this generation and the next one. So it’s just one thing to consider

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re sensitive to that. Maybe skip this generation and the next couple.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good luck.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah.

Define “whimsy”

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh man, John, tell me what whimsy means.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is somewhat evident during the podcast, but very evident after as we got feedback of people

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about whether Apple has or hasn’t lost its whimsy and the relative values of whimsies. People don’t know what whimsy is. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a big problem. Lots of people were writing in for things that they liked.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like here is a quality of an Apple product that I like. And just because you like it doesn’t mean

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s whimsical. like to give an example of the unibody on laptops, like it

⏹️ ▶️ John makes them makes them feel much more solid. And we all agree that it’s better than when they were just like connecting together like a top and

⏹️ ▶️ John a bottom and a sides and everything right. Not whimsical. It’s good. It’s a good it makes

⏹️ ▶️ John their products like you know high quality and attractive and we like it and we think it’s great product

⏹️ ▶️ John design but it is not whimsical. So I would encourage people to look up the word whimsy

⏹️ ▶️ John in your dictionary of choice and realize that It has to be playful, quaint, fanciful,

⏹️ ▶️ John and perhaps have a humor value. That’s, that’s whimsy. That’s when things are whimsical. It’s not just

⏹️ ▶️ John a good thing about a product.

Golf R kickdown switch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Alright, and then I have a little bit of neutral related follow-up. I had lamented

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on The video and I think we discussed on the podcast that the golf are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could swear DeMiro says golf by the way But anyway, the golf are has a kickdown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey switch So if you recall you push the gas pedal past where it feels like it can’t go any further And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then there’s a little switch that flips and to me I didn’t understand the point because it was a manual transmission car

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and And I got a lot of feedback from a lot of people, all saying mostly the same stuff, but Eric Scala summarized

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it the best. He writes, the switch does have a function, too, to be accurate. First,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the adaptive cruise control can be switched off, and instead the car will limit the speed to the speed you set.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can push the gas pedal as much as you want, the car will not go above the speed you set. That is until you press the kickdown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey switch. So that’s like an override saying, no, really, I gotta go. Also, when you switch the car

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into eco mode, the throttle will respond much slower to your input. around 40% maximum input.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Everything beyond that it will just ignore. That is until, you guessed it, you press the kick down switch.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Those both make sense. I had no idea either of those were the case. So that was useful.

⏹️ ▶️ John I will collect my credit for doubting your story that the chip was not chip. The switch was nonfunctional.

⏹️ ▶️ John Remember when I asked you, are you sure that you check the owner’s manual? You

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey told me you hadn’t. I did.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You told me you had glanced at the owner’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey manual. I thought I dug a swan.

⏹️ ▶️ John Okay, there you go. I guarantee

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this is in the owner’s manual.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I found

⏹️ ▶️ John it hard to believe that the switch did nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So

⏹️ ▶️ John now, now you know, read the whole owner’s manual from cover to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey cover. You

⏹️ ▶️ John got the car for a week. Yeah, I’ll get right on that. You’re supposed to be reading the manuals for Marco. Now who’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to read the manuals for you? This is like a chain. I’m the only person left to read the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey manual. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I will read the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco manuals.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who reads the manual of readers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll read the manuals for Marco when I’m going to be traveling in that car at extraordinary rates of speeds on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the Autobahn. You’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to help him find the battery so he can jump it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. And then the other question I got a lot, which is reasonable, is… Deep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cut. The other question I got a lot that was a deep cut is, why not just get a GTI and chip

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it? And by that, I mean you’ll get a box that will let you reprogram

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the way the computer, the onboard computer works. And from what I understand, you can get a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey box that will reprogram the onboard computer that will give you, if not equal to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Golf R horsepower and torque, perhaps even better than the Golf R

⏹️ ▶️ Casey horsepower and torque ratings. And the reason I don’t want to do that is because I did that to the BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I got moderate gains. And for all I know, that could have been why the engine torpedoed itself

⏹️ ▶️ Casey twice. So I know Volkswagen is not BMW.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I know. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wouldn’t put that on the record.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know that cause this is not causation, but it just, I, no, thank you. No, thank you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If it was meant to be 300 plus horsepower, then the factory would make it 300 plus horsepower.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am good. Thank you very much. It’s a reasonable suggestion. If you’re braver than I, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fully encourage you to try it out, but I am not that brave anymore. So, thank you, but no thank you.

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Podcast directory primer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s slash ATP. Betterment, rethink what your money can do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, you started a trend this past week. Oh, God. You removed InfoWars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from the Overcast podcast directory. And then Apple said, you know what? Marco’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. Let’s do that too. And then Facebook and YouTube said, you know what? Apple and Marco are right. Let’s do that too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it was a trickle effect from there.

⏹️ ▶️ John as a as an opening statement that I would like to request from Marco on this topic because it will lead into it eventually. I think this

⏹️ ▶️ John is a good opportunity to have like a one on one segment and the one on one I think Mark should do is explaining

⏹️ ▶️ John what a podcast is because to explain the nuances of this issue, it requires you to know

⏹️ ▶️ John what a podcast is. And I think a lot of people kind of like whimsy don’t actually know what a podcast is.

⏹️ ▶️ John So can you explain to us and like boring one on one technical terms literally what a podcast is and

⏹️ ▶️ John then like how how the parts work and how they fit together, who the players are, which will then explain what you’re going to say that you

⏹️ ▶️ John did.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s actually a really good idea. Because you know it doesn’t work the way almost anything else in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco internet works. And so it is kind of helpful to know this. And I get all sorts of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco questions or arguments that suggest people don’t understand this very well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I can’t blame them because it isn’t explained it very well. So here I am going to try to explain it probably poorly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But here we go. So to publish a podcast, you need audio files.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You put those audio files on a server somewhere, and then you need some way for people to find them and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for podcast players to know when there’s a new episode. And so the way that you publish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audio files in a useful way that makes that into a podcast is you create a special RSS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feed. An RSS feed, oh, geez, I have to explain this. Keep on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John digging. It’s 101.

⏹️ ▶️ John What the heck is an RSS feed?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco An RSS feed is a document that is in a special version of markup language

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called XML. It’s kind of like HTML but a little more strict, a lot more strict.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And anyway, so it’s an RSS feed is a document that in a structured

⏹️ ▶️ Marco standardized way lists items in a feed format. So it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could be articles, it could be posts, and if you have a special

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tag in those posts called an enclosure tag that points to the URL of an audio file,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that becomes a podcast. And so when you publish a podcast, you are hosting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the file yourself. And there are a few exceptions to this. Certain podcast platforms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of take this over for you or copy your file and reserve it. But for the most part,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most players out there, including by far the biggest one, which is Apple’s podcast app, which has over 60% market share,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s by far the biggest one. The next one after that has something like 5% market share.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A podcast app doesn’t re-host

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your podcast on its own servers. It doesn’t maintain its own content the way YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does. YouTube videos are all hosted on YouTube. So YouTube has way more control and way more liability

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over what is hosted on YouTube than a podcast player does. Podcast players

⏹️ ▶️ Marco simply fetch those RSS feeds from each podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco server and then any new episodes they find that they didn’t already know about they download

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the point to audio file also from the publisher server

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then you can play it you know you can play it in the app so like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s podcast app does not host the files Apple does not host the files

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when a new episode is published it doesn’t even go through Apple like the Apple maintains

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the directory that looks for the new files and so we can like make a list of them for search and stuff but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it doesn’t actually ever host the file the file never even passes through Apple the way the podcast app therefore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco works is kind of in some ways kind of like a web browser in the sense

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s just pulling something from you from a URL it’s pulling a special RSS feed from a URL

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s structured in a special way to contain audio files and And that’s about it. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can have that pull from any URL, anywhere. Where this gets complicated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and where the news this week comes in is the user experience

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a podcast app is usually not people entering URLs of all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feeds they want. You can do that. You can go to the website of the podcast you wanna listen to. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can find somewhere there there’s gonna be a link to their RSS feed and you can copy that link and you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco paste that URL into the add URL box in almost any podcast app, and you can listen that way, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. But the way most people do it is they just use some built-in search function

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the podcast and they search a directory of podcasts. By far the biggest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco directory out there is Apple’s podcast directory. The way you get into Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco podcast directory is you go to Apple and you submit your feed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for consideration, and they make sure that it doesn’t break any obvious rules,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that it’s not illegal, or that it’s not obscene, or spam,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or I believe they don’t allow porn or other adult content. Apple has people review those, and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they say, okay, this is okay to be in our directory, and they add it to the directory. They’re still not actually hosting the file, but they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maintaining a search index. So that way, when people go to their app, they don’t have to enter the URL of every RSS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feed, they can just type in, you know, this American life, and Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uses their search engine and say, okay, this is the URL for the show you just asked for. Here it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you never have to see it as the user, it just gets added to your podcast app. And so it seems kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you’re using something that Apple’s in full control over. It seems like you’re searching Apple podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for podcasts that are in Apple podcasts and playing them, and Apple Podcasts is therefore responsible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for everything in it. In reality though, the technical details of that are closer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a web browser with a search engine. in the sense that a web browser can navigate to any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco URL, just like a podcast app could play any URL’s podcast feed, but in a web browser,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you often will use search instead of entering a URL directly because it’s just more convenient or it’s easier to find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things or whatever else. Oh, and I should clarify one other thing that is important to understanding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my role in this. Overcast, my podcast app, I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my own directory. I have stuff on my server that I know about, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t have any way for people to submit podcasts to me and I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any content review of what gets into Overcast because I’m just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one person. I don’t have the resources for that. Apple has a whole staff around the world because you need to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do things like you need to understand other languages to know is content in other languages obscene

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or illegal or anything. This takes a huge amount of people to actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco run this kind of directory responsibly. And there’s a reason, you know, in Overcast, this is the reason why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have no areas in Overcast where users can enter text

⏹️ ▶️ Marco visible to other users. That’s why there’s no user reviews of podcasts, there’s no star ratings,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s no comments. The reason why is because when you have any of those things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in your app, you become responsible for content policing those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things and for dealing with harassment and hate speech and illegal content being posted to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, dealing with disputes, dealing with complaints, dealing with copyright issues. If you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are allowing users to enter content in your platform, you’re going to have all those problems land in your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lap eventually. I don’t want anything to do with that. I don’t have any text input

⏹️ ▶️ Marco directory things, no reviews, nothing like that. Also, I outsource my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco content decisions of what should show up in my search engine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to to Apple’s iTunes podcast directory. Because they have that staff reviewing things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they have way more resources than I do, because they maintain the big directory, and also just so that podcasters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to submit their podcast to Overcast to be playable in Overcast. All they have to do is submit them to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple’s directory, which they’re already gonna do, because that’s the biggest player, so that everyone’s gonna do that, and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they just become playable in Overcast when I search Apple’s podcast directory next for whatever term

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people are looking for. So anyway, so my overcast mechanism for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I show in search and what I don’t show in search is basically, do I know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this podcast to have an iTunes ID? If a podcast has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an iTunes ID that I know about, it will show up in overcast search. If it doesn’t, it won’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are a couple of exceptions. iTunes ID or not, I will not show a podcast that has the iTunes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco block attribute set, which which is a custom tag you can have in your RSS feed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also won’t show anything in search that has an HTTP basic auth username and password

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in its URL, because a lot of protected feeds and private feeds and passworded feeds use this mechanism.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also won’t show things that are like URLs that use big long hashes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the end that are meant to be single user private URLs, things like Patreon private URLs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Slate Plus private things that they don’t use basic off passwords but the idea

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going to be private so I have basically this you know this list of conditions that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if something has an iTunes ID and and would otherwise show up in search if it appears to be a private feed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or if the feed appears to want to be blocked from search I don’t show it but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally otherwise it will show up with Apple search like if it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shows up an Apple search it will show up in my search because I want Apple to be the one enforcing these content rules.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The other side of this, I know this is long, bear with me, I have to enforce

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these content rules to some level because to some level, I as the app owner, like if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff is illegal, like if somebody’s publishing something that’s illegal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you can play it in my app, legally I’m probably not at fault

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there because of the way the stretch rate thing works, but certainly could become my problem even if it isn’t my fault

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so I don’t want to I don’t want to deal with that like I don’t have the resources to police everything and deal with that so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I rely on Apple enforcing these guidelines that also that also keeps spam

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of the directory that’s why like when you search for popular shows the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason why you don’t get a whole bunch of spam with people trying to squat on those names is because Apple is doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spam filtering and And so like some degree of filtering is necessary here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, you know, the Apple deals with copyright issues. Like somebody can’t just take this show,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco put it up, you know, call it something like, you know, accidental tech podcast with a typo in it somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and copy all of our files and make a separate feed and steal our, you know, download. Like they can’t do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that because Apple maintains this and people complain to Apple and get it taken down. Some degree

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of human intervention, human curation of this directory has always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been present and it’s necessary for a good experience and for good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco legal and practical realities.

Alex Jones de-listing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what happened last week is the Alex Jones show. Basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what happened is it crossed a whole bunch of lines of things that, you know, I mean look, the guy’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always been a tremendous jerk in a lot of ways and incredibly damaging, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it crossed a lot of lines that went from simply being a bad person to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actionable problems, things like hate speech and inciting violence and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things of that nature that are against Apple’s terms for what they allow in their podcast directory and are in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many jurisdictions are actually illegal. And so a listener emailed me saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hey, I’m leaving your app because you host this content and it’s horrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I looked and I’m like, this should not be allowed. This is clearly in violation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Apple’s own content guidelines. And they were already at that point, they were already having problems with Facebook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and YouTube because they were violating their guidelines too. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do have a mechanism in Overcast that I can override a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feed that would otherwise show up and I can say this feed should not show up. I haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used this mechanism very often. I used it once before for NRA

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TV for similar reasons that I believe that it was violating Apple’s own guidelines

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I used it I think two or three times something like that occasionally a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco random podcaster will find Overcast will say hey my podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is showing up in your app that’s copyright infringement I demand you take it down and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know what when people say that I say okay and I set this flag and it’s gone from Overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway so I use this flag on these InfoWars properties

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it was very clear that they were violating Apple’s guidelines but Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was not removing it from their directory and I was hearing about it from a lot of people. You know a few days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few days after I did that Apple pulled them from the directory and so did everyone else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically and and so you know I think I was proven right. It was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know had I known Apple was gonna pull them a few days later I might have just waited for them to do it so that way I’m not involved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this, but ultimately it had to be done. They were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearly in violation, and it was high profile enough that a lot of people were seeing it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that can get me in a lot of trouble. That can get me possibly involved legally in ramifications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this show. That can get me kicked out of the App Store, because the App Store has rules against this stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So basically, I took action, because it was clearly necessary, and I didn’t know that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was about to take their own action, So I took my own. I am 100% confident in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco action I took and the ability I have to do this because sometimes it is necessary, and I really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco try. I hope to use it as little as possible because I don’t want to put myself in this position, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sometimes you have to be in this position. Like sometimes something like this happens where people are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco demanding immediate action and you look at the problem and you’re like, well, I kind of don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that. I’m seeming that I’m being kind of bullied into a decision like this but if you look at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the you know look at the actual situation it’s like yeah this actually should be solved like this is a problem this does require action

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so they’re correct like the people ask me to do this are correct so it’s important not to think defensively in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that time and just say okay actually yeah this is right I should take action and just do it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway so going back to the original topic these crazy shows remain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco playable in overcast if you enter their URLs but they’re gone from my search directory.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so to continue with the events that took place, so you did this what like last week, middle of last

⏹️ ▶️ John week or something?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, I don’t remember the exact day, but it was last week.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so after that, Apple did eventually do what you would, you know, the reason you had to do this because Apple hadn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John removed the info stuff. And Apple did eventually remove all the podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ John except for one, I guess. But anyway, Apple did remove it. So your your block, your

⏹️ ▶️ John custom block was pretty much only needed temporarily because now all those things are actually gone from Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John directory as well. And after Apple did it, Facebook and YouTube both got rid

⏹️ ▶️ John of that, you know, the same content on their on their services. And you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, Gruber was investigating trying to figure out like, was this a coordinated thing between

⏹️ ▶️ John the big three companies? Or was it that Apple did it and then once Apple did it, Facebook and YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ John did it and it seems like Apple did it and then Facebook and YouTube did it, which I find depressing because it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so sort of reactive and so big company kind of thing where it’s like, nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John notices or cares until one of your few handful of important competitors

⏹️ ▶️ John does something and now you quickly have to do it, otherwise you look bad. It’s like, well, you all looked bad for a really long time before

⏹️ ▶️ John this, but apparently no one cared. But as soon as one goes, then everybody has to go. It’s such a weird kind of high

⏹️ ▶️ John school peer pressure thing among like the biggest companies in the world. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a good look. Because it’s not like, I find it hard to believe these companies

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t know about this issue. Like lots of, it’s highly charged. Lots of people on both sides are constantly probably

⏹️ ▶️ John yelling at both companies about it. Just like someone had to go first. And then it looks, and then

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to follow what they did because if you don’t do it, and it’s like, well, Apple did it, why didn’t you? I find it really depressing.

⏹️ ▶️ John But another interesting aspect of this that Guru pointed out is that, so Apple removed it from the podcast directory. Which again, the reason I

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted you to explain how podcasts work and what a podcast is, is to make it clear that

⏹️ ▶️ John unlike the case of like YouTube and Facebook, all Apple has done is essentially removed

⏹️ ▶️ John an item from like a search index. It’s the same as like Google not showing your thing in search results.

⏹️ ▶️ John Your thing, this podcast continues to exist exactly as it has always existed, hosted

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly where it’s always been hosted, available to exactly the same people it’s always been available to. The only difference is

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t show up in search. Marco made it so it doesn’t show up in his search and then Apple made it so it doesn’t show up in their search and

⏹️ ▶️ John therefore won’t show up in Marco’s search, right? That’s it. But Apple didn’t get rid of

⏹️ ▶️ John the the app in the app store for I don’t know what the hell this app could possibly do it is probably just another

⏹️ ▶️ John way to get the same content, right? So as an info wars app that remains in the app store.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m not quite sure how to square that it seems like if you think it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John all a gateway to the same terrible content, right? And if content is violating some kind of guidelines

⏹️ ▶️ John like I don’t know anyway I’m imagining that there might be some follow up on that in the future to see if that app

⏹️ ▶️ John ever gets pulled because Apple especially in the App Store Apple’s been really testy about like political apps like I don’t know what the rules

⏹️ ▶️ John are these days but I remember back like in the 2008 election there was you know some political

⏹️ ▶️ John apps and Apple was like at one point they didn’t want like overtly political

⏹️ ▶️ John apps in the App Store and would pull them anyway I I really hope

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple gets on the same page here and delist the app as well, because I don’t I don’t quite get how the rules

⏹️ ▶️ John would be different. It might just be like it’s a big company and there’s different people in charge of those two things. And so the other shoe will drop

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I thought it was because there were different guidelines, whether you’re in the app store or in the podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Casey directory. And for whatever reason, the guidelines and rules and regulations in the app store

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are not 100 percent in lockstep with what’s in the podcast Directory or the rules for the podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Casey directory. And apparently, there were clear violations in the podcast directory, but I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the app follows the letter of the quote unquote law in the App Store. At least that’s my understanding. I haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey personally looked into whether or not that’s true or not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, honestly, I haven’t had time to look into it either. But it’s it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s just because you know, Apple’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big company. These are totally separate divisions of Apple. It wouldn’t surprise me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the app is pulled like tomorrow or the next day, like because it just took a while to get approved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the right people or whatever else. It’s complicated. And I honestly haven’t even looked at the app yet. I don’t have enough time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And it might just be like, oh, the app counts as a player app. There’s no actual content in it. All it does is play

⏹️ ▶️ John things. So you wouldn’t pull it just like you wouldn’t pull a web browser. But at this point, it’s kind of like the principle. This entity

⏹️ ▶️ John is disapproved of by all the big peers and everything like that. But there’s one exception.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that was the subject of today’s… One of today’s little buckets of gnashing teeth.

⏹️ ▶️ John that was Twitter. Info Wars is also on Twitter. And after Apple did it,

⏹️ ▶️ John Facebook and YouTube did it. Twitter did not get rid of the Info Wars

⏹️ ▶️ John Alex Jones accounts.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Shocking.

⏹️ ▶️ John And yeah, and many people were angry about that. And what is

⏹️ ▶️ John Jack Dorsey? He’s their CEO, I guess. Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, he’s on Twitter, of course, trying to explain why they didn’t get rid of it. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, Oh, it technically didn’t violate our guidelines and so on and so forth. Lots of people are angry about that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, and you know, Marco was very measured in explaining exactly the parameters of the situation

⏹️ ▶️ John and his thinking behind doing it. But you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco or apple or youtube or facebook or twitter, all these things are private entities

⏹️ ▶️ John and they all have to make decisions about what they want on their platforms that they pay for and

⏹️ ▶️ John they run. No, you know, no thing has an intrinsic right to

⏹️ ▶️ John appear on YouTube, be on Facebook, be part of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Marco’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, podcast directory, be broadcast on NBC. Like there’s, there is no right to

⏹️ ▶️ John that. You have a right to free speech, you have a right to the government not putting you in jail for doing something,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you don’t have a right to these private platforms. So every private, you know, every platform has to choose

⏹️ ▶️ John what kind of things do we allow here? The example that I try to try to pick example that we can all agree on, I think I found a better one

⏹️ ▶️ John that I usually pick spam. Almost everybody who has a platform tries to

⏹️ ▶️ John stop spam. Spam is just like automated, you know, content that’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, advertisements or false things that are trying to make you think that there’s something else or whatever. But spam, we all

⏹️ ▶️ John know what spam is. Everybody who has a platform suffers from spam, everyone has a platform tries to stop it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And nobody ever makes free speech complaints about spam because everyone understands. Well, of course, you’re not gonna let spam.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s just garbage, right? And well, I have the right to spam. You know, you don’t like, do you run Twitter?

⏹️ ▶️ John Do you pay for our servers? Do you like Twitter makes the rules and the rules for Twitter and YouTube and Facebook

⏹️ ▶️ John and Apple’s podcast directory is we try to stop spam because it’s crappy. And why? Why do we try to stop it? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if we let spam there, no, it would make our service less attractive.

⏹️ ▶️ John We think that if we let tons and tons of spam be in the podcast directory, people would find our podcast directory

⏹️ ▶️ John less useful and we want it to be useful. Why does Twitter try to stop spam? There’s too much spam every

⏹️ ▶️ John time you go on Twitter. All you see is just tons and tons of people at mentioning you with pictures of boobs and butts. That’s bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John It will make you it’ll make Twitter a worse experience. So all these things make decisions about what is and

⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t allowed to try to make their service how they want it to be the best they the best that

⏹️ ▶️ John it can be to the customers that they want. And so the entire argument about Twitter and all these things is from the

⏹️ ▶️ John group of people who says Twitter would be better if you got rid of Alex Jones. If you got rid

⏹️ ▶️ John of insert whatever here. And then it’s Twitter kind of never

⏹️ ▶️ John really talking about that, but instead saying, well, we have some rules and we think these rules

⏹️ ▶️ John are the ideal rules to form the community that we want to form. And this doesn’t violate our rules.

⏹️ ▶️ John Therefore, we allow it to be there. And it’s just lots of people yelling and saying, we think your service would be better if you got rid of

⏹️ ▶️ John this. And them saying, we don’t think it would be better. And they’re an impasse because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s their service. They can pick whatever they want. They could let spam in if they want. They could delete everyone’s account that begins

⏹️ ▶️ John with the letter P. You can do whatever they want. It’s their platform. The whole point is an argument over

⏹️ ▶️ John what makes a good community. And we’re members of this community. We can all have opinions and you can vote with your

⏹️ ▶️ John feed and say, well, this community has become accessible and it’s unattractive to me,

⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m going to leave this community and go elsewhere. And that’s the signal that you can give

⏹️ ▶️ John to Twitter to say the rules that you have chosen for your community no longer appeal to me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or you can yell at them on Twitter and say, I like your platform, but you’re making it worse by

⏹️ ▶️ John allowing this to happen. So please change things. And YouTube, Facebook, and

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s podcast directory and Marco personally get exactly the same feedback. People telling them

⏹️ ▶️ John you have a thing and a set of rules and it is less attractive to me because of this thing that you’re doing. Please change something.

⏹️ ▶️ John And in Marco’s case, you know, he said, yes, I’m going to change this because I agree with you. My podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John directory would be better. And it’s also a smart business position, yada, yada, all the things that he talked about if I

⏹️ ▶️ John got rid of this. So you know, it’s frustrating to

⏹️ ▶️ John see these kind of debates because at this point I think the

⏹️ ▶️ John what I just tried to outline like the basic parameters of like private platforms versus free speech issues

⏹️ ▶️ John should be so well known that it should be like a meme that everybody learns when they’re seven that like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, how if you are putting your content on some website

⏹️ ▶️ John or social media thing or whatever, that you have no right to be there that free speech

⏹️ ▶️ John and you know, the first amendment and everything are in the United States or whatever only applies to like

⏹️ ▶️ John government restraint on speech. It doesn’t apply to your right to have your message

⏹️ ▶️ John distributed by a private company. And yet every time this comes up despite

⏹️ ▶️ John tons of memes and xkcd comics and explainers and animated gifs

⏹️ ▶️ John and wikipedia pages and a hundred people trying to explain this patiently literally every time it comes up

⏹️ ▶️ John just just go through the replies and just i thought this was a free country free speech are

⏹️ ▶️ John you in favor of censorship blah blah and it just it like it’s like this is a lesson that apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John we can never actually learn we are doomed forever to have to re-explain it. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John and so I guess we’re, I’m trying to fill that purpose here to have yet another venue in which people who have never heard this, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, because people are born every day who haven’t heard that it’s not free speech when you can’t post something on twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John or it’s not a violation of free speech when you can’t suppose something on twitter. Uh, that is not the situation.

⏹️ ▶️ John That is merely an argument about what people think the rules should be for

⏹️ ▶️ John a private company’s community. And all we can do is either leave or

⏹️ ▶️ John complain or both and twitter eventually makes a decision about what they’re going to do.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, I’m thinking that enough sustained pressure will

⏹️ ▶️ John make twitter join its peers because I think facebook and apple and youtube doing it is substantial amount of peer

⏹️ ▶️ John pressure. But who knows? There’s things happen so quickly these days, this could all blow over and we’ll forget

⏹️ ▶️ John about it until the next big flare up. Um, I don’t know. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just, I’m just depressed that we keep going through this cycle and I’m doubly depressed because it’s not clear what side to come down

⏹️ ▶️ John and I think Alex Jones should be de-platformed, as they say, from everywhere. He’s got

⏹️ ▶️ John his own website. He can publish his stuff. If he can get a TV station to air his garbage, fine. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I wish all the platforms that I participated in would boot him off because I think he’s a garbage person.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. Like, you know, my response to this, you know, it’s hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and people on Twitter accuse me of, you know, being partisan sometimes and everything because it’s hard because I I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the business that I run here, and I also have my own personal feelings. And my own personal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feelings are pretty strongly left, and I think very little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a lot of Republicans recently, and the people who vote for them, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who control their media like this clown. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very, very little of them. I’m very vocal about that on Twitter, frequently. So people know that about me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I also run this business that shouldn’t have that strong of an editorial voice to say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only left-wing political stuff is permitted or whatever else. That’s not a position that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my business should take. And with this action of me removing him from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco search, a lot of people—I think people were more surprised. I mean, I got a few people saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, I’m being biased here because of my political views or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else. But I also got some legitimate people saying, you know, I’m not comfortable with you having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the ability or exercising the ability to delist shows. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, you know, what I mainly wanted to communicate here, and I think what John did a better job

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of than I did, is that the ability to control what shows get listed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is necessary. And that ability gets exercised all the time, just usually by Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But like, you know, as you mentioned the spam example, I mentioned like, you know, various other like legal concerns, copyright issues,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff like that, where like, there’s lots of podcasts that exist in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco world that don’t show up in search engines in any popular podcast app, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of very many legitimate practical reasons. So like the the ability to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remove podcasts from search indexes, or to not add them in the first place, like after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of editorial or human decision, that ability is necessary for lots of reasons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and is exercised all the time, always has been, and probably always will be. The question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of whether that ability should exist or should be used, in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco opinion, is a totally solved problem. Yes, that ability is necessary for lots of practical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons and needs to be used. So the only question becomes then when you use it. And so I try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to keep myself as uninvolved as possible by relying on Apple and only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco intervening when it’s pretty clear that, you know, Apple has not enforced their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco own rules. I haven’t even written my own rules. I just say, these are Apple’s rules. I agree these are reasonable rules.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you can show me an example of a podcast clearly not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obeying those rules that Apple won’t take action on, then if I have to take action against it, I will.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the person who is uncomfortable, like, I mean, you know, you can be uncomfortable whatever you want to be in order with. But like the

⏹️ ▶️ John idea that that Overcast is the kingmaker for podcasts like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s when when certain, you know, private companies reach a certain size, that’s when, you know, in theory,

⏹️ ▶️ John antitrust starts to become a factor. It’s like, well, you’re not the government, but you’re so big, you are the de facto

⏹️ ▶️ John decider on some large area of our life or culture or market. And

⏹️ ▶️ John now this potential antitrust for you having too much, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, in the past, that has

⏹️ ▶️ John been a thing, let’s say, and it has been used to both good and bad measure in various times

⏹️ ▶️ John in the history of the country. But Marco is not at that point. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why I wanted to have an explanation of like how podcasts work.

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco, someone who is not the dominant podcast player in the entire world yet, he’s working on it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is him delisting you not only doesn’t make it appreciably harder

⏹️ ▶️ John for people to find your podcast. It doesn’t actually affect the podcast at all, which continues

⏹️ ▶️ John to be hosted exactly where it has always been hosted and available to exactly the same people. It’s just removing

⏹️ ▶️ John something from a search result in an app that is used by a small fraction of the people listen to podcasts, and they can

⏹️ ▶️ John still use his app to listen to the podcast that they just enter the URL, right? So it is the most

⏹️ ▶️ John benign kind of kind of deep platforming because unlike YouTube and Facebook,

⏹️ ▶️ John he is not kicking them off a platform. He is removing them from a

⏹️ ▶️ John search result. Uh, so I, you know, again, you can be uncomfortable at whatever you want to be covered.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you’re afraid, this is like, uh, an overreach of tremendous power

⏹️ ▶️ John hurting someone who wants to get their voice out. This is not that in any reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John sense of the word and understanding the boring nitty gritty technical details of which most people don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John reveals that again, independent of what you think about any of this. Like this isn’t, you know, I think it

⏹️ ▶️ John is not particularly reasonable to be uncomfortable with that because it is so

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s such a it’s such a non event as far as the content and the reach of

⏹️ ▶️ John that content goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also honestly, you know, I want to I want to set, you know, set the expectations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of what actually happened here. Accordingly, I got very little actual pushback on this compared to the amount

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of people who were incredibly supportive. So no, don’t feel bad for me because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this has been only good for my business, if anything. I didn’t do it for that reason, but for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most part, there are way, way more people on the positive side

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this than on the horrible side of this.

…except by Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s the argument I would make to Twitter if I could ever talk to someone who would listen would be like

⏹️ ▶️ John Your service will be better as in it will be a more attractive to users

⏹️ ▶️ John If you get rid of things that most people in your service don’t like like Nazis and Alex Jones Right

⏹️ ▶️ John and just like in Marco’s case There were some people who there will be some people who are angry about that But I

⏹️ ▶️ John would make the argument like a profit motive You are a private company that wants to be successful

⏹️ ▶️ John not like a moral argument or anything like that that, which you should be able to make very easily too. But just like the

⏹️ ▶️ John most craven capitalist argument is, your service will be better and more attractive to people

⏹️ ▶️ John if you change it in this way, because people like to hang out in a place that’s pleasant. And they get

⏹️ ▶️ John all tied up and not worrying about Oh, no, people will be uncomfortable because Twitter is way bigger than overcast

⏹️ ▶️ John still. And so like, Oh, you are, if you kick them off Twitter, that’s such a big thing. There is no equivalent to Twitter.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now they can’t get their voice out, which is not true or whatever, but it

⏹️ ▶️ John will make the service better. It will make a plus. The same with spam. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John almost as if you have to explain to them, here’s why you should get rid of spam because every time I go on Twitter, it’s just 100 bots telling me to buy real estate

⏹️ ▶️ John and showing me boobs and butts and linking me to porn sites. And I can’t see any of the people I follow because people are constantly at mentioning

⏹️ ▶️ John me. It’s just spam wall to wall. And having to make a years-long argument to Twitter to say, listen,

⏹️ ▶️ John you should get rid of spam. It will make your service better. And they’d like, I don’t know, I’m really uncomfortable deciding what content

⏹️ ▶️ John is spam or what content is not spam. I really don’t want to make those calls. I feel like our place is not to editorialize

⏹️ ▶️ John and blah blah. It’s like you just want to wring their neck. That’s what it’s like with Nazis and Alex Jones. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco can’t seem to get through

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter’s thick skull that, you know, you’ll make your service better. And like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it just becomes clear, they think, you know, that it’s engagement at all costs. And all these other even more craving reasons

⏹️ ▶️ John why people think like they need to have some element of danger and badness, because that That causes people to yell

⏹️ ▶️ John at each other and they just need to have monthly active users and all those other stuff. The same argument for spam, in fact. Lots of bots, they were like, oh, they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John want to get rid of the bots because their monthly active user numbers will go down. But eventually they were convinced of that.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, I would I would love to sit Twitter down and explain to them that people will

⏹️ ▶️ John like your product better and will use it more if you make it nicer by getting rid of Nazis and Alex Jones.

⏹️ ▶️ John But we have not yet won that argument.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Still trying. Honestly, you’re not going to ever win that argument because like all these like horrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hate mongers that have media presences and followings and hate groups

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on places like 4chan and some reddit groups and stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These groups have been empowered by the political climate of the US

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the last couple of years. They’re growing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or at least their volume is growing. And all this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is from people. Many of them are Russian bots, but some of them are actually people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, we say this as though, like, oh, the people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco running Twitter should recognize that these bad people who support this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco horrible hate shouldn’t be along on Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco without considering the possibility that the people who make these sorts of decisions at Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are among those bad people. But I think it’s very obvious, when you look at the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actions and inactions of Twitter regarding hate content, racist

⏹️ ▶️ Marco content, Nazi content, harassment, lots of related things like that, I think it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obvious that the people who make these decisions at Twitter, up to Jack himself and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God knows who else, are these people. They are these bad people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They are Alex Jones’s audience. They are Sean Hannity’s suck-up audience.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, these, they are those people.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t buy that. I think that the other explanation, which is that they’re so naive that they think they think

⏹️ ▶️ John they are the US government and they just don’t want to have this hands-off attitude and their elevated position makes them

⏹️ ▶️ John not face the consequences of any of the damage. They’re just like, I am a high-minded, elevated,

⏹️ ▶️ John benevolent overlord of a free exchange of ideas type thing. Like, they say all those things and I mostly

⏹️ ▶️ John believe them because naivete seems to be a more I don’t say that there aren’t there aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John sympathizers for all these things inside the companies but I think at the very top it’s mostly just

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of left-leaning people who are incredibly misguided about what would actually make their service better and about their role

⏹️ ▶️ John and their damage to the world like Zuckerberg’s big thing was a good example they’re asking him about neo-nazis and Alex Jones

⏹️ ▶️ John that was Holocaust deniers right they’re asking about Holocaust deniers and he’s like well you know it’s not really

⏹️ ▶️ John my place to say it’s like oh like I really don’t think oh he’s a turd too I don’t really don’t think Zuckerberg

⏹️ ▶️ John is a closet Holocaust and I are for you know, it’s it’s highly unlikely, but he definitely is very naive

⏹️ ▶️ John about the damage to his platform, damage to his platform by allowing that stuff and the damage

⏹️ ▶️ John caused by people using his platform to disseminate that. So Navitie is

⏹️ ▶️ John a more, I think a more plausible explanation as far as I’m concerned than

⏹️ ▶️ John actual malice, but there’s probably some malice mixed in, I just think not at the very top.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I think if I may put words in Marco’s mouth, I think your point Marco may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be that they’re really ultimately no different from those that sympathize with these terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey people because they’re not taking action to silence them and and Even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if Jack or or Mark Zuckerberg don’t personally agree with these hate mongers, which I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think was a good description By giving them a platform to spread

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this hate They are effectively in bed with them Even if they’re not conceptually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in bed with them, for all intents and purposes, they are in bed with them because they’re allowing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this to continue. Is that a fair description or am I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco totally followed?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re enabling it. I mean, that’s—but they’re also like—it’s like, you know, these places, they even have rules

⏹️ ▶️ Marco against, like, hate content and stuff that they just selectively don’t enforce. Like, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, they don’t enforce it against this popular person. They don’t enforce it against the president.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, there are rules that like other people on Twitter have to follow, unless you’re a big media

⏹️ ▶️ Marco personality or the president, in which case rules against hate speech and racism and things don’t apply to

⏹️ ▶️ John you. Like… They have those counter rules where it’s like, oh, newsworthiness trumps all, so to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speak. I think naivety is a reasonable conclusion or explanation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a point, like for like one or two kind of instances like this where like, oh, they did something dumb because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, they didn’t realize how bad it was. We’re well past that point with these, especially with Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and somewhat with Facebook.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still think they still don’t realize because it doesn’t affect them or their life and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not real to them. They don’t see or understand the consequence. Zuckerberg is the

⏹️ ▶️ John most amazing to me because I think he was telling the truth. I don’t think you can act that dumb and naive.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It just seemed like

⏹️ ▶️ John he was earnestly expressing. And the rules are the best because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John rules they make up for themselves. And you’re like, well, we have to follow the rules. You make the rules. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like rules lawyering, like D&D rules lawyering themselves. Like, well, we have no hate

⏹️ ▶️ John speech except for notability and newsworthiness is more important. It’s like those just…

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t need to make a set of rules and then follow them yourself. You control the whole service. You can do whatever you can do with literally

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. The rule could be whatever I feel like. That is also a valid rule set. And I understand having

⏹️ ▶️ John a fixed set of rules is an important thing to do. So everyone knows what’s expected of

⏹️ ▶️ John them, the sort of a code of conduct, if you will. Right. But if you find yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John constantly adding new amendments and stuff to sort of explain like this weird, you know, because it’s dishonest,

⏹️ ▶️ John like everyone’s like, Oh, the reason you allow the president there is because there’s a tremendous amount of engagement. And it’s a high profile way

⏹️ ▶️ John for people to constantly have the word Twitter on their lips. And but you’ll never put that in the rules. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re, you’ll if you follow these rules will be banned unless your value to our platform is determined to be worth

⏹️ ▶️ John more than

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the violation

⏹️ ▶️ John of the rules like that’s the real rule but they don’t write that down so they’re like well there’s newsworthiness and there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John you know the importance of your statement for other people to read even if it is a violence it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so silly and so kind of you know stereotypically sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John nerdy of like trying to make a system that rationalizes

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing that you were going to do anyway for reasons that are too shameful for you to admit, perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even to yourself. Yeah, and I think in this day and age, refusing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to take action against huge, obvious bad forces when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have the amount of power that Twitter and Facebook and Google have,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think refusing to take action is being complicit in these problems.

⏹️ ▶️ John As was said on a past podcast, I forget who this quote from was, neutrality favors the oppressor

⏹️ ▶️ John never the oppressed. Right? So they’re trying to be high-minded and neutral and just like we’re just

⏹️ ▶️ John a platform man. That that helps the oppressor. It always helps the oppressor. It always helps the one

⏹️ ▶️ John in power oppressing the less powerful saying, oh, we’re going to stay out of it. They’re like, great, stay out of it

⏹️ ▶️ John because otherwise someone might try to stop us. So now, now we can have our way with all these people.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s bring this up and end on a happier note with some Ask ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And let’s start with Fabian Diem, who writes, I would love to know your Mac OS stock preferences. This is not going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to end well, never mind. With regards to placement, auto-hide, magnifying effect,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and app running indicators, I will start. When I was at work, when I had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a normal big boy job, I always had two monitors and I preferred

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to keep the biggest monitor directly in front of me with my laptop to my left. And for whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason, that caused me to put my dock on the left. I do have a auto

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hide on, I do have genie effect on and I do have it. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what was the other one?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh, indicators. There

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you go. Yeah. I do have those on as well. In my personal opinion, I prefer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey left. I’m okay with right. I think bottom dock people are, I was going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to say monsters. Let’s be a little more respectful are making a poor choice because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of our screens these days are wide screens. So with auto hide I guess you can get away with it, but without

⏹️ ▶️ Casey auto hide Especially if you’re gonna lose real estate lose some horizontal real estate not vertical real estate We have so little to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey begin with anyway. That’s my situation auto hidden on the left. That’s where I like it Marco. How about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m also a left dock person the bottom dock You know I respect people who do the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dock in the sense that it looks nice and it’s the default and everything else, but I think it’s a bad default because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Macs for a very long time have had short screens screens. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s weird to waste your more precious dimension of screen real estate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on an element that is by default static. Matthew Foxx Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Adam Raffaello Anyway, so yeah, I’m a left dock person. I do auto hiding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on laptops, but not on desktops, because on desktops, I have enough screen real estate that I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John get enough value

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of having the dock always present that I do it. I have it always on on desktops on the left

⏹️ ▶️ Marco side. I leave my dots on because I like dots and no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resizing or scaling or anything like that. Just constant size.

⏹️ ▶️ John Hmm, John. So I’m going to defend the bottom doctors because I am one on

⏹️ ▶️ John the desktop and there are, you know, reasonable reasons to have it down there. First, if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re an old school Mac person like I am, you have your drives on the desktop and they go in the right. if you do

⏹️ ▶️ John right dock it’s potentially overlapping your drive. Second, if you’re an old school Mac person, you

⏹️ ▶️ John like to have your windows in the upper left corner because that’s where they’ve been for your entire life and you don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ John make room for them on the left side with your dock. Third reason if you’re right hand and you tend to have a

⏹️ ▶️ John mouse cursor hovering towards the right side left dock makes no sense. I would love to hide the dock entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John and just use drag through my process switcher but you can’t because the APIs the dock uses for notifications

⏹️ ▶️ John and other stuff is not available through public APIs and no one even hacks into them to use them

⏹️ ▶️ John with private APIs these days. And finally, yes, the screens are wider than they are tall.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the only thing that matters is would you benefit from seeing an additional inch of vertical content

⏹️ ▶️ John in any of your windows? And for me on a large desktop display, my answer is no, because like you literally

⏹️ ▶️ John had to like move your neck to see from the top of a five K to the bottom of a five K. Like I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John getting any benefit from that additional inch of space. And depending on how you have your dock scaled,

⏹️ ▶️ John it takes up exactly the same number of pixels total on your screen, whether it’s on the side or on the right again, depending

⏹️ ▶️ John on how it’s scaled. Obviously, if you have a full width, it doesn’t or whatever. But it’s not like it’s actually taking up more room.

⏹️ ▶️ John So do I need that to see that extra inch of vertical space? Or

⏹️ ▶️ John will it be more disruptive to have on the right or left? That said, on a laptop, my answer is yes, I do need to see that additional

⏹️ ▶️ John inch of space. And so you just can’t do bottom dock and laptop is the screens are just they’re not five k screens. They’re small.

⏹️ ▶️ John So on a laptop I do right doc. I used to do pinning on the right doc but

⏹️ ▶️ John these days I think they took that out even in the P list setting or whatever. Auto

⏹️ ▶️ John hide. No because I can’t stand to wait for things to happen. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I wish I could auto

⏹️ ▶️ John hide it but I just it takes too long to I can’t stand the waiting magnified

⏹️ ▶️ John now operating indicators. Yes I was never sold on the fact that you don’t have to care whether

⏹️ ▶️ John your apps are running. You still do need to care. Computers are not fast enough. Ram is not plentiful enough. So

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, friendly hitters.

#askatp: Sleep hours

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Cecil Shibe writes, how many hours a night do you sleep? For instance, John works a full-time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey job, parents two kids, does many podcasts, at least two of which are generously over one hour

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a week, or I should say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John conservatively,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well as cooks, plays video games, watches Destiny videos and other movies, does 1000 backups, etc. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco actually pertinent given our

⏹️ ▶️ Casey discussion earlier. And Cecil finishes, how? So John, what’s your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey secret?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is just about how many hours a night you sleep. So I tend to go to bed like podcast nights. I go to bed between 11 and 12 depending

⏹️ ▶️ John on how long we run. Every day I wake up at 6 30 every weekday I wake up at 6 30 to, you know, get everything

⏹️ ▶️ John done and get to work on time. So what is that like? Seven,

⏹️ ▶️ John six and a half, seven and a half hours depending on the day. Weekends one day is my day to sleep in on weekends.

⏹️ ▶️ John But with a house full of kids sleeping in sometimes just means like eight o’clock or eight thirty. But on the weekends maybe I’ll get

⏹️ ▶️ John eight hours of sleep. So I think that’s plenty of sleep for an adult of my age.

⏹️ ▶️ John and a half, seven and a half hours on weekdays, eight and a half, nine hours on a weekend

⏹️ ▶️ John on one day on the weekend. Uh, yeah. So that’s how many hours a night I sleep. And if

⏹️ ▶️ John you add up all the time that I do, like I work from nine to five, I do breakfast and kids in the morning. I cook dinner.

⏹️ ▶️ John I take kids to activities. Uh, if I have a podcast, I can squeeze in,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, you know, an hour of destiny in the middle there. If I’m, if I’m good on podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John nights, I don’t watch any television or anything else because there’s just no time. on nights when I don’t have podcasts, I can watch a TV show.

⏹️ ▶️ John It works out. It’s tight. I’m not going to say there’s lots of slack time in there, but it works out. And it’s not like I’m sleeping three hours

⏹️ ▶️ John a night. I mean, I used to do that when I was younger where I would have a similar schedule and I would

⏹️ ▶️ John write some work on my Mac OS X article for hours

⏹️ ▶️ John and hours and go to bed at 3 a.m. like but I can’t do that in the market at the moment.

#askneutral: Manual safety features

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thomas Brock writes, in Casey’s latest video, he points out that the manual

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Golf R is missing a lot of the advanced driver safety

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and convenience features. He didn’t point out that this is because these features are incompatible with manual transmissions.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Things like adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, and others may need to operate the vehicle beyond the speed range

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a single gear. Will these technologies eventually mean the death of the three-pedal car on an infinite timeline? Well, this isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey entirely true. The car has adaptive cruise, and in fact you can shift while cruise control is on,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and when it senses that the clutch pedal is depressed, it will kill the throttle until

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the clutch pedal is engaged, disengaged, or always get it backwards, until you pop your foot off the clutch.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The thing that the car does not have, the Golf R specifically, does not have is auto parking, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything else that I can think of, collision avoidance, I mean, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would stop itself if necessary and I guess it would just stall if that’s the case. But everything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey except parking I think it had. So I get your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey point, Thomas. And will it ever mean the death of the three pedal car? I don’t think this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what’s going to be the nail on the coffin. I think the nail on the coffin is going to be people aren’t buying them. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, you were the one who put this in here, I think. So I presume you have thoughts.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I just wanted to hear actually which of these things the car has or not. So you answered that because they could

⏹️ ▶️ John they can still implement a surprising number of assistive features. But at a certain point, especially for automation

⏹️ ▶️ John type things, you need to have a different kind of car at that point. Like you need to have like

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially an automated manual that somehow you could also have like

⏹️ ▶️ John an automated manual that also has like a clutch pedal or something like you could probably pull it off. But in general, once you

⏹️ ▶️ John get into things where the car is driving itself, manual transmission is not going to work. But as you said, that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John why they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco away. They’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to go away because people don’t want them. Because you know, that’s just, that’s why they’re going away. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John the other transmissions are faster for performance. We talked about this before. It’s not, it’s not the fastest performance option anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John Automated manuals are amazing. And the people who care enough to

⏹️ ▶️ John have a slower car, because they like rowing gears, we’re all getting old and dying and not

⏹️ ▶️ John buying cars. And so that’s why they’re going to go away. It’s not because they can’t add automation features.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Additionally, there’s no fuel economy benefits anymore. I remember

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years and years ago, it used to be that the automatics would be several miles a gallon

⏹️ ▶️ Casey less efficient, and that’s not the case either. In fact, oftentimes it’s the reverse.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they used to be cheaper. It used to be cheaper than automatic transmission, so there’s a price advantage. But nowadays,

⏹️ ▶️ John the volumes are so low that the price advantage, there’s still a price advantage in parts. It does cost less money to put a manual than an automatic,

⏹️ ▶️ John but the volumes mean that it’s the same price or sometimes more expensive to get a manual because they make so few of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. That’s not always true. Like the Golf R, the DSG is a thousand or eleven hundred dollar option.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I think in M cars, for example, it is a no cost option to go manual. I think in like Corvettes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it might be a no cost option to go manual.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco BMW’s only no cost

⏹️ ▶️ John option.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John true. And they’re making money on it because like it is, it is less expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to

⏹️ ▶️ John put it on my transmission.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Seagrid in the chat also asks an interesting question. Casey, what’s the bigger deal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to you, the third pedal or lack of a torque converter? So for those who aren’t aware, a torque converter is the thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes an automatic work. And to deeply, deeply, deeply oversimplify,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey imagine two fans in a pool of thick liquid. And one of the fans is connected to the engine, one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is connected to the wheels. And when the car is stopped, that means the engine fan is still spinning, but the wheel fan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t. Please don’t write me. That is a gross oversimplification just to get the idea across.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what’s the bigger deal to me actually having a clutch or not having a torque converter? I like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shifting myself. I just think it’s fun. And so to me, I would prefer to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a clutch pedal, but I have never particularly minded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dual clutch cars where I don’t have a clutch pedal, but there is no torque converter. And as we explored

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my very first case on cars, the ZF8 speed when tuned properly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it was in the Giulia. That is a torque converter automatic, and it was really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good. I’d still prefer a clutch, don’t get me wrong, but it was really, really, really good. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am slated to get a dual clutch car in the next couple of weeks for my next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey edition of KC on Cars. And I suspect I’m going to end up thinking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know what, it’s good. I’d still take my clutch if I can get it, but it’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I drove a dual clutch car for three years and I came to the same conclusion. And by the way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dual clutch cars can have almost all of the assistive features that this question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was originally about. Like mine had adaptive cruise, and it could go all the way from a stop to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever speed it was set to, because it has the same abilities as automatics do where the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer can adjust the speed, the car won’t stall if you hit zero.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Dual clutches have pretty much all the same advantages of automatics in the realm of like what’s possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in these advanced safety features. And yeah, I can say like, you know, driving a dual clutch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not the same as driving a stick with a clutch. It isn’t the same, but I found

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it to be close enough and in some ways better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, what’s your holdup?

⏹️ ▶️ John I have never, still never driven a torque converter automatic that I found acceptable, but I haven’t driven the

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy ones that you have. So right now I’m gonna say I will do pretty much anything

⏹️ ▶️ John to avoid a torque converter

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey automatic until and

⏹️ ▶️ John unless I find one that I don’t find disgusting. And beyond that, obviously, I prefer manual because that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John I continue to buy. And my second choice would be automated manual. And my distant third choice would be

⏹️ ▶️ John a torque converter automatic. And my incredibly distant fourth choice would be CVT.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, it’s funny you bring that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A little bit of a spoiler alert. I did not buy anything, don’t worry. But I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting a car in a couple of weeks that will be the next Casey on cars. but I’m actually currently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a different car, which is a CVT equipped car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I have to say, I don’t actively like it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t actively dislike it either.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Is it simulating an

⏹️ ▶️ John automatic?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Is it one of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey those? No, it’s not. So if I take off from a stop, and let’s say I’m at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one third throttle, the car will just sit at 2000 RPM until I decide to stop accelerating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s the most peculiar feeling in the world. It almost feels like, and Marco’s going to be deeply offended

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by this. It almost feels like a halfway between a, a gasoline car and an electric

⏹️ ▶️ Casey car, because there doesn’t seem to be any division of gears.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s no there it’s just, it’s just power. Now in this particular car, it’s not a lot of power

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I don’t want to disclose much more than that, but it’s just power that’s fairly consistent,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if not an overabundance of it. until you stop. And it’s a very, very, very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey odd sensation. I agree with you. Like I would certainly never choose to have a CVT car. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wouldn’t say I like it, but a lot of people I know, especially early on when they were new,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deeply disliked these. And I think perhaps because it doesn’t even bother

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to simulate gears, I don’t find it actively bothersome,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t particularly enjoy it either. It’s very, very, very

⏹️ ▶️ John peculiar. Most of them do simulate gears now because they’ve learned through bitter experience that people don’t like it. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John the promise of CVT is that you can run the engine in the most efficient speed all the time, but people hate that in terms of like it just sounds

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s droning and it doesn’t feel right. So most of the CVTs you can buy today are they simulate all the stupidity of automatics

⏹️ ▶️ John like even though they totally don’t have to. They’re doing it’s like the fake engine noise and markers all

⏹️ ▶️ John them five. It is a simulation that makes the CVT less efficient and worse

⏹️ ▶️ John than it could possibly be to make the experience subjectively more pleasing to people who expect that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe eventually those people will get old and die and people will get used to it. But honestly, electric is the way out of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey this. If you want something

⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t have gears and stuff like just it doesn’t have multiple ratio gear ratios that it shifts through, get an

⏹️ ▶️ John electric and the droning. I guess if you have a powerful engine with enough noise isolation,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can pretend you’re driving in like a bad electric, but I don’t. I feel like the CVT

⏹️ ▶️ John is a transitional form that has no place in my life ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, Hover, Betterment, Squarespace and we will see you next week!

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even mean to begin, Cause it was accidental, oh it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental. John didn’t do any research, Margo and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t let him,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. And you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, tech podcasts so long.

Neutral: Tesla dash redesign?

Chapter Neutral: Tesla dash redesign? image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Speaking of cars, because I know people love the neutral segments,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what in the ever-living hell is Tesla doing? Did you see this Electrek post?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I did. What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco hot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey garbage? Oh, God, I don’t know. You’re not going to get a Model S anymore, are

⏹️ ▶️ John you? I thought this was going to be a link about them taking the company private, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey now I click on it and I see it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just a thing about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars. No, that, I don’t care about that drama. But like, so this is the, a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of days ago, site electric posted an exclusive first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look based I think on leaked documents at the Tesla Model S and X interior

⏹️ ▶️ Marco refresh going Spartan like Model 3 allegedly I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been about a year or so is when they’re allegedly gonna be doing this and it has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what purports to be like a like leaked sketches of the of the new interior

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the Model S and X that really does basically look like a bigger model 3 that has like you know the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the large now horizontally landscape orientation touchscreen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the middle just like a 3 almost no display in front of the driver

⏹️ ▶️ Marco except for the you know everything being on that big screen and the the whole cockpit basically being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even more Spartan and minimal than it was before to look basically like a giant 3

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the reasons given for this are basically cost savings.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What do you guys think

⏹️ ▶️ John of this? It costs your hundred thousand dollar car. You left out the best feature in these pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John which is they’ve taken all the best features of the Aldi TV remote and apparently brought them to the steering wheel.

⏹️ ▶️ John It looks to me that it’s just a big featureless touch thing that you’re gonna brush your hand up against and accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ John like move your seat or some crap. It’s like taking the physical controls off of the steering wheel to just

⏹️ ▶️ John have a smooth black surface with some tiny white glyphs on it that I guess are capacitive

⏹️ ▶️ John touch or maybe like you can’t tell because it’s just a picture but like I’m having all the wrong feelings about

⏹️ ▶️ John the total apparent total removal of any kind of physical controls because physical controls are great because you can feel

⏹️ ▶️ John for them and you can know what position they’re in and they’re satisfying to move and change and

⏹️ ▶️ John they should not be removed from car interiors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco entirely. Yeah, and ultimately, the current Model S and X

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a surprising, like before I got the car I was afraid it would be like too much on the touch screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but there are a surprising amount of physical controls on and around the steering wheel. And that’s where most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of my interaction takes place. Any adjustment for audio stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any cruise control or the auto steer adjustments, that’s all on the wheel.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, even the sunroof map to the dial on the right, you can map the different things. Like, oh, that’s cool. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so like, although I have no idea how, they did it during like the walkthrough, they did it for me, and I have no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea how to ever change that. But anyway, so, because I don’t read the manual, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even know if there is one. I think it’s all electronic. Anyway, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, the Model S has a good deal of physical controls for the most frequently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used things. And I haven’t driven a 3 yet, but I know one of the big complaints about it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the adjustment to the current

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cruise control speed in the Model 3 has to be done by the touch screen because it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have that, apparently it doesn’t have that extra stalk below on the bottom left of the wheel that the S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and X do that allow you to quickly and easily adjust the set speed of the cruise control.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s something I do all the time. Like I do that all the time while driving. I will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco raise the speed, lower the speed based on like, oh, I’m in a construction zone on the highway, I gotta slow down, and then oh, now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m in a 65 zone, I gotta speed up, or I just, you know, weather permitting or conditions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco permitting, I wanna adjust this by a couple miles per hour, up or down. And so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lack of that on the Model 3 scares me. And these pictures aren’t clear enough, or they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also not final, they’re just sketches, so who knows, and the fact that the wheel appears to have capacitive touch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buttons, I wouldn’t put any faith in that. That’s probably just like, you know, artist mock-up taking artist liberties. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway, point is, I’m very happy with the amount of physical controls

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the S has, and I don’t want those to be reduced. I also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco am totally fine having the critical information of like my speed and stuff being in front

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of me, and not a little bit to my right. Now this does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John appear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it has like a little tiny display that will still be visible or something. I don’t know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not entirely clear. It looks like there is still something tiny in the dash. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, so I don’t love this. Now, that being said, I don’t think this is going to be a problem for me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the near future because my lease is up in April. And this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco allegedly not rolling out until well later in the year or even the next year. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think this update to the interior will be in my next car because I think my next car will happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sooner than this update is likely to hit the market. That being said, I’m kind of glad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about that because I’m really happy with the current interior of the Model S. I’m so happy with the Model

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S in general that I don’t really want it to change radically right now. Like, maybe this will be better,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s cool, but I’m happy enough with the current one and I’m wary enough about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one based on the Model 3 that yeah, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in no rush to get this one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did I not talk to you guys about the fact that I drove a Model 3?

⏹️ ▶️ John It was a while

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, right? It was in May, and a listener, Dave G., was kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey enough to swing by Richmond as he was going between New York and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Florida. And he and I met up for like an hour, maybe two tops, and I drove his Model 3.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it was a very nice car. And I liked it quite a bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But not having an instrument cluster, I did not care for. I’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could get used to it. But I think it would be one of those things I tolerated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rather than one of those things that truly and utterly went away. Does that make sense? You know, it would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey always kind of be, but it would be okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I do not think moving the S in this direction

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a smart choice. I think it, in fact, sitting here now, if I were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, and if, if, if the choice was, you know, to have an S

⏹️ ▶️ Casey without an instrument cluster or just say buy out the one that you have already, even with the three-year-old

⏹️ ▶️ Casey batteries, I’d buy the one I had today because I would not want a car without an instrument cluster. It just seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong to me. Maybe that’s me just being an old man. I don’t know, but I do not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dig it. Yeah, I mean, the thing, and by the way, I have considered buying it out. I’m probably not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to go that route if I can get like the kind I like again for a decent price simply because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t want to take the financial risk of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the heck this car’s resale value will be in five years or whatever. And B,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if the company actually does go bankrupt? They probably won’t. That’s usually BS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in reporting everything. But if the company actually goes under, I don’t want to be stuck owning their vehicle that needs service ongoing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forever and then that kills the resale value and everything. So that’s a big financial risk to take, I think, that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t really want to take. But buying it out, it has crossed my mind because I like it a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have… there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m not dying to get rid of it. And when I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco replace it, I’m probably going to replace it with pretty much the exact same thing. So I’m going to make very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few changes to whatever I get. So it feels kind of wasteful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get the same thing again. But the benefit of leasing is avoiding all those risks that I was talking about a second ago. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s kind of my goal here. But also, you look at what they’re doing here,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the goal of this redesign would allegedly be for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two main reasons. Number one would be cost-saving measures, so they can use a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more of the same parts between the Model 3 and the Model S and the Model X. And to me, I don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those parts. That solves your problem, not my problem. My

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem is I want a nice car, and I don’t care whether your parts are shared between between your vehicles or not,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s your problem. That’s your economics to deal with. And the second

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason given is that this is to focus on autonomous driving. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s wonderful. When we get to that world, this kind of cockpit will be great. This kind of car design,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can go even crazier than this when we actually have autonomous driving. We don’t have that yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a feeling we’re not gonna have that next year either. And so I’m going to have this car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at a time when I’m going to be driving it. And if I’m driving it and not you, computer, driving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, I want it to look nice for me and to accommodate me, the human driver, because I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still necessary. And until that changes, it should accommodate me.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of sad to me that they’ve taken a bunch of good ideas about how car interiors could be better, in particular,

⏹️ ▶️ John leaning heavily on the touchscreen, which is a fairly obvious idea, given how much we all interact with touchscreens these

⏹️ ▶️ John days and how good they are and so on and so forth. and they had a balance between

⏹️ ▶️ John knobs and levers and stuff and screens on S and then they went more extreme in the

⏹️ ▶️ John three and I just feel like, like it’s almost like a Johnny Ive thing where it’s just that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John now pursuing it to its absurd conclusion, right? And they shouldn’t, they should

⏹️ ▶️ John use each thing for its strengths, like I mean, you know, the absurd conclusion is like, why do you have pedals?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why can’t that be on the touchscreen too? Like, you know, and like, and that sounds ridiculous and they

⏹️ ▶️ John would explain to you, it’s a safety issue, and it just feels better or works better, or people are

⏹️ ▶️ John better able to modulate their legs or their know how to drive. All those things are true of things like turn signals,

⏹️ ▶️ John and also buttons and knobs for less important functions. Now, the steering wheel is still physical, the pedals

⏹️ ▶️ John are still physical, the stocks are still physical. But right up until that point, they say, but let’s have like,

⏹️ ▶️ John literally nothing else be physical, because everything is capacitive. And it’s just that’s a bad, that’s a bad trade off. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a bad design for the exact same reason that the steering wheel and pedals like so they’re, they’re moving the the line like as

⏹️ ▶️ John far as they can seemingly in. Well, it’s two two possible innovations. One is the misguided

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of pursuing of your vision to its logical and absurd conclusion, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John How far can we go right? I mean, I’m almost surprised the steering wheel is doesn’t look like the one in kit

⏹️ ▶️ John now. And speaking of second, the second reason I think we talked about this neutral is and this is

⏹️ ▶️ John actually a reason I could justify in some ways. I just wish they found a different outlet

⏹️ ▶️ John is part of the appeal of Tesla and electric cars in general is that people want to feel like they’re buying a futuristic

⏹️ ▶️ John car. So you need features of the car that are worse from a usability and reliability perspective,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that make people feel like they’re cool. I wouldn’t say they’re whimsical, but I would say that they they feel

⏹️ ▶️ John futuristic. And if the door handles popping out on the model s were great example,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Falcon wing doors are an example that tremendously increases the appeal of

⏹️ ▶️ John their products, even though it basically makes them worse because if they feel cool to people, and press strangers.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, it makes you feel like, I’m not just buying a car that’s a regular car, but it happens to have an electric motor

⏹️ ▶️ John in it. It is a futuristic, cool car. And this kind of dash treatment fulfills

⏹️ ▶️ John that. Like, they had to go away from the pop-out handles because it’s just too annoying. So on the 3, they

⏹️ ▶️ John have a thing where you pop out the handle by pushing your stupid little fingers into this thing. And it

⏹️ ▶️ John hinges out, as opposed to waiting for the thing to pop out with you from the motor, right? So it feels like they have

⏹️ ▶️ John a displaced need to put that futuristic stuff. And I just wish they’d

⏹️ ▶️ John put it somewhere other than messing with the steering wheel the knobs in the instrument cluster.