Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

277: You're Not a Mac App Yet

Live from WWDC 2018!

Episode Description:

We're live from WWDC 2018!

Sponsored by:

  • Audible Careers: Join the company that is changing the world, one listener at a time.
  • AfterShokz: Headphones powered by bone-conduction technology. Get $30 off the weightless, wireless Trekz Air with code atp30.
  • Microsoft Azure: Build intelligent iOS apps that scale.

MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Live at WWDC 2018!
  2. iOS
  3. AR
  4. Photos
  5. Sponsor: Microsoft
  6. Shortcuts
  7. CarPlay navigation apps
  8. Activity reports, App Limits
  9. Notifications, DND
  10. Sponsor: AfterShokz (code atp30)
  11. Memoji
  12. Sponsor: Audible
  13. watchOS
  14. Diversity on stage
  15. tvOS
  16. macOS Mojave
  17. UIKit on the Mac
  18. Closing remarks 🖼️
  19. Ending theme
  20. Neutral: Scooters

Live at WWDC 2018!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey guys. There’s a lot of people here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hi everybody. How we doing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann This is wild. Oh yeah, we got to start the show. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so we have to start with follow-up as we always do. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I quit my job.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Anyway, so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco WWDC time. It is, it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I swear we will talk about that, just not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann tonight. Maybe not on this show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway. Yeah, it’s DubDub. No, we’re serious. No, we’re done. So DubDub,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s now. It’s happening. The keynote was good, I think. We’ll talk about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey For a boring year, I have, I was going to do a visual aid, but that’s not useful. Remember, this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a podcast. So there was apparently nothing happening this year,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet I have three pages of notes about nothing, as it turns out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It turns out nothing, there was a lot of nothings and a lot of somethings. And yeah, I honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we did our predictions last week and we talked about like what we expected and everything. And even though there was no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new hardware, which is always like the flashy, easy thing that we all want all the time, which is kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unreasonable, but you know, we all like hardware. Even though there was no hardware, it was still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a really good WWDC. And there’s still a lot of stuff to keep us busy,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least a lot of us busy this summer and into the fall.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Do you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need help? I know

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann a guy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My app doesn’t seem tested enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann It doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey any prescriptions. That’s what it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess we can try to do this in keynote order and we’ll probably bounce around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco a little bit. Let’s do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Let’s start with that migration video. That was awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m glad. So I was scared because the internet connection in there, and this is the first of first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey world problems, but the internet connection in there was terrible on my phone, on my laptop, whatever. So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tweeting saying, oh, this was enjoyable, and waiting to just see this wall of tweets about, oh my god,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was so stupid. I can’t believe they did that. This is lame. And I actually didn’t see any of it. I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give you some of that now if you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it was stupid. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of knew what the theme of this video would be. And it’s smart, because you’ve got a bunch of developers in the audience.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you want to tell, like, if you include developers in the video, like we knew some people in the video,

⏹️ ▶️ John people in the audience will feel like they’re part of the experience. It’s not pandering so much as like

⏹️ ▶️ John how could that room full of developers dislike a video that featured developers and it was silly. You’re right in the

⏹️ ▶️ John you know got David Attenborough to the voice and everything. I try to have a good attitude about it, but I also think

⏹️ ▶️ John if you if you wanted to like game this and say what video can we show that the room is guaranteed

⏹️ ▶️ John to like you show that video. So I do think it was a good video, but I also kind of felt like I was played.

⏹️ ▶️ John We were all played. Did anyone hate the video in this room? No,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann only you. One person, one person over

⏹️ ▶️ John there hated the video. But who was not going to like it? We’ll get to the video at the end too. It’s smart.

⏹️ ▶️ John Smart Apple PR. Good job.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Well, I really enjoyed it. And in fact, I saw that you had retweeted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something I’d said, and I was very nervous for a fleeting moment that that was like a, how did this dummy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this video kind of retweet? Like one of those retweets are not endorsement kind of retweets, but then I realized that you liked it as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Everybody

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John loved the video. How

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could you not love it? How could you not love it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say best Apple video in their events in years.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What was the one with the blind gentleman walking through the woods? I thought that one was really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco good. That was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco excellent too, but this one I think played to the audience so well that if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were that kind of person to enjoy poking fun at ourselves and knowing the developer stereotype,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was

⏹️ ▶️ John awesome. complaint about is that it lean pretty heavily on the old basement dwellers

⏹️ ▶️ John hiding hiding in our houses and don’t go outside and the sun hurts us which is you know it’s and it’s the stereotype

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody some developers are riding surfboards making iOS apps jumping base

⏹️ ▶️ John jumping they’re doing all sorts of things in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann the front row right here look at me the rock climber yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, yeah, it’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I thought it was good.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey So then we start with iOS because that’s the only thing that matters these days am I right and And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perform it who clapped for that

⏹️ ▶️ John Come on have fun doing your iOS development and Xcode for iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, where’s that Xcode for iPad? Yeah, how’s that feel teach anyway? So we start with performance

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I was very happy to hear that that performance is a real priority Which is great, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know obviously they said you know we we the iOS 11 goes all the way back to these 2013 era devices or whatever it was.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can kind of see where this is going. And apparently iOS 12 will go to the same set

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of devices, which I think is great and impressive. And I’ll believe it when I see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, but hopefully the Apple engineers are starting to carry these ancient phones, which I kind of feel bad for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. Well, it’s not even ancient. Like, I say that jokingly, but it’s not even that old. But anyway, I hope these engineers are carrying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these old phones so they can see what the day-to-day experience is like and really live it. And I feel like I’ve heard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some rumblings that that’s the case, but one way or another, concentrating on performance helps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everybody. Even those of us with brand new phones, it helps us too.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think also there was some degree of like handling and damage control from the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann battery gate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing and from iOS 11 adoption being not that high relative to how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long it’s been out compared to previous releases. And the phone throttling is what you’re talking about with the battery. Yeah, the battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco throttling, yeah. And like, you know, for years we’ve had this problem of old phones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco run new OSs really slowly. And that really hurts Apple and the ecosystem in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long run, because it makes people not want to upgrade their software and makes them less happy with their devices over time. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything they can do to fix that is very important. And it has seemed like, until fairly recently, it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems like that has not been enough of a priority. So for this to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the very first thing they tell us in this conference, that’s a pretty good sign. I also took it as a sign that I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have that

⏹️ ▶️ John much else iOS 12,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann but it turned out

⏹️ ▶️ John to be kind of wrong because they did go through a lot of things, but to start on that, it’s like, oh, so this

⏹️ ▶️ John is the OS where we just make things tighter and faster and remove bugs, which is great. I think it’s a good idea,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I got that signal. Also, they did the adoption thing. It was like, first they did the 50% in seven

⏹️ ▶️ John weeks, which is a weird measure. Like, who cares when you get to 50%, right? And then they did the other one.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was like 81% a year, and isn’t that low? Like, it wasn’t like 10 in the 90s and 90s. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it seemed a little bit low. And I think part of that is the fear of like, oh, I upgraded the OS and now my phone is slow. So

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re definitely counteracting that. And regardless of that also being good PR, it’s the right thing to do. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m glad they’re doing it. But did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they actually talk about bug fixes though?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Because we just assumed,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I mean, come on. Right, that’s the thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it was all about performance. And it was, and my favorite thing was at the end of that segment,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Craig said, only after mentioning performance, he said, if this was all be done with iOS 12,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we think this would be a great release. And the whole room laughed. The whole

⏹️ ▶️ Marco room of people that we were watching it with, everyone burst out laughing. Because it was so, like, it was like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really? That’s? That segment was kind of the beginning of,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, a running problem throughout this presentation. Granted, I like the presentation’s content

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall. I think I like what we got today. I like what was announced. I like what they’ve been working on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the presentation seemed a little messy. And it seemed like it really lacked editing. And this was one example, like this whole segment, where it really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did seem like they were like padding it. They seem like they didn’t think they had enough to say, and so they were just padding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything. And like, you know, Craig going through, here’s all the releases we’ve done for the last few years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That one, and that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John one, and that one. They’re just providing

⏹️ ▶️ John context. I mean, if you wanna yell something about padding, I would say the Lego demo, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann something like that. Oh yeah, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. Demo padding’s always a problem. But, you know, it did seem like there was a lot of like, just, you know, actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, intentional time wasting going on. I would characterize

⏹️ ▶️ John that as, This is what you do if you’re not in a rush. Like remember the last one or whatever where they were in a super

⏹️ ▶️ John big rush where they just gotta go, go, go. This is what they would do if they had more time and they had more time this year.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey So then we got AR stuff and is USDZ?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann That’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Universal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Scene Descriptions.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t have anything particular to say about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I didn’t really get it during the keynote, but in the State of the Union, what clarified it for me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was that this is just like a file format that the OS will be able to look at and deal with everywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Safari, messages, mail, everything. So AR in general is a thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not that excited about because I haven’t really seen any compelling like killer apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for it yet, except measuring things which Apple just Sherlocked amazingly. Whoops. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think what finally clicked for me is the idea of like I was just doing backpack

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shopping like we all do and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann one of the… Stereotype. Yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one of the issues I had was I never, it was hard to tell from pictures online like Like, how big is that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this is the problem I always get when trying to shop for things online. Like, how big or small something is is often hard to tell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scale online. And it was kind of cool to think, like, what if in a few years,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like on product pages of online stores, in addition to having all the little photo thumbnails and you can make the photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger, what if one of them was a used file and I could just download,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I could like view that and see how big that is on a table

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or next to my existing backpack on the floor my room. The idea of being able to visualize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco objects, to get an idea of scale, like when you’re just seeing something online,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I think would be a really killer feature of that. It might take a while before we’re ever at that point where all the retailers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have these things for all their products and everything like that, but if we get there, that would be really

⏹️ ▶️ John cool. It’s coming soon, and in a couple of years, it’ll be… I mean, we’ll get back to that what is it, the Amazon show,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever one that lets you try on clothes. You want the backpack on your back. So ARKit in two years will let you put the backpack

⏹️ ▶️ John on your back and have someone take a video of you and see how the backpack looks on you. Same thing with clothes, not just have like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s a shirt, this is how big it would be, but like map it onto your body. We’re not there this year, but

⏹️ ▶️ John come back in three years and see if we’re not mapping clothes onto our bodies. We’re already putting meme-ogy things on our faces.

⏹️ ▶️ John So. Hey, that was awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that was cool. We’ll get to that. And so one other thing to mention about ARKit 2 is you can have shared experiences, which I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can see being pretty neat. And they did that demo with like, I forget what the name of the game was,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann but it’s like- A slingshot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing? Yeah, well, it’s basically like a slingshot thing or whatever, it doesn’t really matter what the name of it was. And interestingly, after the keynote,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when all of the attendees were getting lunch, they actually had a couple of stations where they had tables

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and iPads, and you could actually go and play the game. Now, as with all things, the line was forever long,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I didn’t try it, but I saw this happening. It did look kind of cool. I could see how that would be neat. Yeah, if you have

⏹️ ▶️ John a pool table-sized table in your house, those tables were huge. Like, the slingshot table was huge,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Lego table. Who has a table that big? It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey King Arthur’s

⏹️ ▶️ John table.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not only that, but an empty table that big. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John isn’t just like a runway. It’s just like a giant and it has

⏹️ ▶️ John wood grain on it so the AR kit can pick it up. I don’t know what kind of houses these people have, but there’s no clear

⏹️ ▶️ John horizontal surface that size anywhere in my house, including the floor.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You gotta fight

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann really hard to get your little phone spot right. That’s all

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann want.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey That’s all you need.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then photos. Photos, there’s going to be share back suggestions, which I thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was really cool. So if you share a series of photos with a friend or whatever, and it stands

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to reason that that friend will have some photos from the same event, I guess we’ll look at the geotag data and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time stamp and whatnot and try to figure out, based on your own photo library, do you have things that maybe you should

⏹️ ▶️ Casey share back? So if I took pictures of this at some point and I sent them to you guys,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then your phone would automatically say, hey, do you want to give this back to Casey because it seems like it’s relevant. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s super cool. And that to me is a really great example of Apple doing the things that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple does best because it’s intelligence that doesn’t necessitate going and taking all of your data, putting it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the cloud, and then having it come back. It’s all done on device. And there’s no reason that shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be possible. So I thought that was really

⏹️ ▶️ John neat. So Gmail has, if I’m getting this right, Gmail has a thing like that where when you’re emailing somebody, it says, do

⏹️ ▶️ John you want to also email Marco and Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann this information?

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think that’s incredibly dangerous I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey afraid to

⏹️ ▶️ John accidentally click and send something somewhere I’m not supposed to. I get like why people like it, but I worry about

⏹️ ▶️ John UI that suggests actions that I’m not actually taking that I could accidentally trigger. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But this was an additive thing, right? Like what I find is in iOS messages, I get a lot of the same,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like I’ll want to email maybe or not email, I want to message maybe just you, John, and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’ll offer Marco as another person. And I feel like that is so in line with what I’m doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I either absentmindedly or or like slip and tap into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John here. But then

⏹️ ▶️ John when you’re saying snarky things about me and you accidentally brush my name,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’m not gonna get the message. Yeah, exactly, that’s the last thing I want.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so what ends up happening is, I have to pay even closer attention, but this looked like it was more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey additive where it was a different piece of UI, not exactly where you were already operating, if that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes sense. So I echo what you’re saying, but I think in this case it’ll be okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was the only thing about photos that I was really jazzed by. I hear there’s a really good ebook about the Photos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app that you should check out sometime. If you ever wanted to know anything about photos, look up Jason

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Snell. That guy knows a couple things. But was there anything else useful about photos?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think a lot of people were pointing out that Google Photos has done a lot of this stuff either this year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or last year. And that’s true. But a lot of us don’t use Google Photos or don’t want to use Google Photos.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so it’s nice to have that option here. The only thing that I was a little disappointed by is that they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t seem to mention, which means we probably haven’t gotten, syncing of the image recognition data between your devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I was thinking about that. Didn’t that come last year? No, last year they would sync like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the corrections you make. The ones you confirmed, that was all they were syncing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like any data you entered, they would sync that, but they wouldn’t sync the baseline recognition. So every time you get a new device, you still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to wait for it to burn your battery all day while it’s doing all the recognition. So that part, I really hope that we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do get that at some point. It should have already been there, but oh well, it seems like we’re not getting that. But otherwise,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a solid feature release, I think. doesn’t blow me away, but otherwise, pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Microsoft. Microsoft is right here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in San Jose this week to support all of you iOS developers and all of our favorite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco podcasts. They are actually right here at Alt Conf again and they’re also sponsoring this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco show, the talk show live tomorrow, and Relay FM’s Connected Live on Wednesday.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Microsoft they’re cool. I mean, you know, they sponsor a whole community and I really appreciate that. So anyway, they believe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any developer should be able to build, deploy, and scale your apps without having to worry about managing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco services or underlying infrastructure. So whether you are an Objective-C or a Swift developer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Azure has what you need to ship your apps faster and with more confidence. There’s all kinds of stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you can do with Azure. So for example, you can build in the cloud. You can test on real devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can automatically distribute to beta testers and the App Store and monitor your apps with real-time crash reports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and analytics. You can even add things like pre-built AI services into your apps to make them more intelligent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you’re, for instance, a game developer, you can get a complete back end platform for your iOS games

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with real time analytics, power management, live ops, and more. So here’s what you need to do.


⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’ve set up a page where you can learn all about building intelligent iOS apps that scale. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash iOS and Azure. So that’s once again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash iOS and Azure. So very special thanks to Microsoft for sponsoring our live

⏹️ ▶️ Marco show and really our entire community of developers and podcast fans for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years. Thank you very much to Microsoft for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So imagine you’re me, and you’re sitting in the keynote, and you’re sitting next to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Federico. And then we start hearing about Siri shortcuts.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we see this icon that just looks like it may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey relate to some app that Federico has used from time to time, and maybe has evangelized

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a teeny bit. And suddenly it becomes clear to Federico that we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are looking at workflow, but better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey His eyes were saucers, you guys. It was magical to be next to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. So we have Siri Shortcuts, which is basically workflow, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, not first party, but first party, and system integrated, which looks amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am super excited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about this. And fully integrated with Siri, too, because a pretty massive upgrade. And we’ll talk about the Siri shortcuts thing more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco generally, but the shortcuts app, which is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco API of making these shortcuts for the app. Then there’s the shortcuts app that users can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use, which that’s basically workflow. And it answers the question of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why did Apple buy workflow? What has that team been doing? And the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunate answer to those things is like, well, they got absorbed and they did something boring. In this case, this was a good answer. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was… Absolutely. doing awesome things with workflow, and now it’s part of the system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a really great seeming way. I haven’t actually tried it yet, but it looks awesome, and I think this is gonna be great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m confused

⏹️ ▶️ John by Siri, the shortcuts thing, because I can’t tell how powerful

⏹️ ▶️ John it is or isn’t. Like the demos, I still don’t quite understand it. I kept thinking of your use case, because it’s the one we talk about in

⏹️ ▶️ John the show so much. But like, you can have these little save Siri’s shortcut things in your app,

⏹️ ▶️ John camped out so that you can make a shortcut to that location to perform an action, But does that mean

⏹️ ▶️ John if I wanted to tell Siri to play an episode of a podcast, I’d have to start an overcast and hit a button there

⏹️ ▶️ John and go into it? I’m very confused

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco by it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the API basically looks like, and I haven’t played with this yet, but it looks like I, as the app developer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can tell the system what you’re doing at any point. And I can also, in a UI or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco NS activity, and as user activity, there we go, a user activity, and the system can index those.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then I, as the app developer, can expose a vocabulary to the system. So I could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe do things like expose a vocabulary of all of your playlist and subscribe podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco names with the word play in front of them. So I could have you be able to tell Siri,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco play ATP. And well, if that was actually the title of our show, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John would work.

⏹️ ▶️ John You could add the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco vocabulary. I’ll have to hard code that exception. Otherwise, play accidental tech podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then it should then be able to launch my app with that as the trigger. So that actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last week I was kind of asking for some kind of like generic like action verb object kind of system.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this gets us a lot of the way there. This is if this works the way I hope and think it does,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann huge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgrade for SiriKit and and for the usability of apps with Siri and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in lots of ways to interact with like the Siri watch face and probably like the suggestion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the lock screen stuff like that. I think this to me is the most exciting feature they announced today.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When they did that thing

⏹️ ▶️ John where

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like you know I’m heading home or whatever and it did like a series of twenty steps of like setting up the

⏹️ ▶️ John home kit thing and turning on music and doing all that stuff. That seems cool to me

⏹️ ▶️ John and I fear for the automated. The people are into automation so much because this may be like a honey

⏹️ ▶️ John pot for them and they will just find themselves setting up these crazy automations that, but I also started thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John like a Rube Goldberg machine and then once you once you initiate this action, the boot knocks over the fish

⏹️ ▶️ John bowl and the cat chases fish and the egg and like this is series of things happen that you don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John any way to like pause or revoke certain sections of it or stop and it’s just all gonna happen and so I

⏹️ ▶️ John fear that you make some kind of shortcut that does 27 steps and accidentally initiated in your whole

⏹️ ▶️ John house goes crazy but this is version was version one I think we if you use cautiously and if it

⏹️ ▶️ John works the way you describe I think I’ll provide a lot of extra functionality but we’ll see what the real enthusiasts

⏹️ ▶️ John let’s say do with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. I mean that’s the best thing is like this is exactly the kind of thing that nerds both love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and probably shouldn’t have. Because we’re going to like, you know, like somebody’s going to come over to our house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and be like, check this out.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Go to Defcon 3. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The thing I want to know about it though, and this is the one disadvantage of doing the show on the very first day, is that it seemed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, to your point, it was just NSUser activity, but it didn’t seem like there was too much extra

⏹️ ▶️ Casey specifically for Siri involved. And I don’t know, I haven’t had a chance to look at the API, so I might be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting this dead wrong. But it was in the State of the Union, I believe, that they said, hey, look, one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey line of code where you just flip a Boolean is true, and you will be opted into Siri

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looking at the things that your users do. And the way I read it was that it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would look at, you know, oh, I play ATP all the time, right? Anyway, I play ATP all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco you play Accident

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Protect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Podcast all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get my point. Or maybe in some other app, I do the same operation over and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over and over again. And then it would see that this operation that has been opted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey into this Siri shortcuts thing is something that you do a lot at the same time every day.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John And it would suggest it. And it would suggest it. What was the thing?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Proactive or whatever. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they call it just Siri suggestions now. But it was originally called proactive. So there’s another API. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said you can opt into that. But then there’s also the new Siri Intents, an expansion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann of that API.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So this is one of those questions actually answer next week. But it does look like it’s a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good looking system. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John really am very excited.

⏹️ ▶️ John Underscored, did you implement this already?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann Tell us how it works. He’s over there. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco yet. Not yet. Not yet, OK.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wait an hour or two.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann By the end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the show, he’ll have like three apps that use the system already.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, by next week, I expect it in the App Store. No, not really.

CarPlay navigation apps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So then we talked a little bit about apps, which by and large, I didn’t get that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much that really revved my engine, except they are letting third party

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mapping applications use CarPlay, which as a person who has a CarPlay car, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is magical. And this is one of those times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the curmudgeon Casey thinks, oh, Apple would never allow that, because oh, it’s Apple Maps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or nothing. You know, Apple Maps is perfect if you live in the Bay Area. Wouldn’t you mind the epimaps? But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in reality, That’s how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco they talk.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s exactly how they talk. And you just got to throw in a groovy here and there. That’s how California

⏹️ ▶️ Casey works, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann You put an avocado on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, with an avocado on it. This is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called not

⏹️ ▶️ John pandering to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the crowd. This is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey opposite of pandering to the crowd. Most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them probably aren’t from here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, having used CarPlay a fair bit in Aaron’s car,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually really, really like it. And I’ve been surprised at how much I like it, but it is infuriating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if we ever try to use it for anything that’s more than a very short trip that we can’t use Waze

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or Google Maps or something like that because especially Waze carries advantages that I think no other mapping application

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really does. And having Apple allow third-party apps, third-party

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mapping apps onto CarPlay, I think is an unbelievable improvement and will dramatically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey change the usefulness of that entire feature in my mind.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Agreed. It’s one of those things, like it’s like every year, we get one or two things that we thought Apple would never do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this was one of those things, like I never expected them to open up the display of CarPlay to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other navigation apps. That seemed totally out of the question, and they did it, and gotta give them credit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for that. That’s gonna be awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m really stoked about that.

Activity reports, App Limits

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They talked about a lot with Do Not Disturb and associated technologies, which seemed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really good, and I was really excited about it until they started showing you graphs about how addicted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you are to your phone. And this is something I don’t want to know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I’m going to be really embarrassed and upset about how much I use my phone, and Aaron

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going to be so unbelievably vindicated it is not even funny. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be a tough fall around the List household, I am quite certain. But as much as I joke,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think the features are really great. And it seemed like they were very well thought out. They’re showing you useful data in what appeared

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be useful ways. And again, I joke, but I do think I have an unhealthy relationship

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with my phone. And I do want to get better about putting my phone away and not paying attention to it when I really shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be. And I think that in a lot of ways, this is going to be a really great help for people like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me who recognize that I got problems, but I hope that this will enable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me to solve them. And things like having, what did they call it, an app timeout or an app limit? I forget the term was.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Yeah, it was basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called app limits. OK, so I can only use Twitter for like an hour a day, or whatever the case may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be. I think that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco from- Even if it’s too long.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is, but that’s like 1 24th of how much time I spend on Twitter in a day. But be that as it may, I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be a really great feature. And I hope that when it comes out, I pay attention to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it and I stick with it. the

⏹️ ▶️ John self implode self imposed security state sounds great, but I can imagine kids watching this video and going oh no,

⏹️ ▶️ John because what kind of kid wants this kind of graph and limits like if they make that easy as it appears

⏹️ ▶️ John to be to be able to apply those limits or even to just to get a read out on them. Kids are going to hate this. Yep,

⏹️ ▶️ John my kids are going to hate this. I already know it was like it’s like ninety nine percent YouTube,

⏹️ ▶️ John but maybe I’ll be surprised. Maybe they use the calculator sometimes. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, no, like the whole angle of this too, of like, of working it in not only as like a self productivity

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash time management tool, but also working in two parental controls and to have to have parents

⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to like set limits and everything. This is this is an area of features that especially Amazon did pretty well with with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their tablets for a while and Apple was kind of getting raked over the coals for not doing the same thing. Well, they did it now and it looks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty awesome. It looks pretty full featured. So you know, it’s another example of Apple kind of coming late to something, but then doing a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good job of it, it seems. So I hope it works out. And it looks like a pretty rich feature set.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it looks pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ John And Google just beat them. We talked about the digital wellbeing thing that Google did. And this is the case where it’s like, they got to

⏹️ ▶️ John do it and say it all first and Apple had to come after and say, we’re also doing that. Apple’s take was a little bit different,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you know, it’s still configuring your devices to stop you from using them, which apparently is very popular. So Apple’s smart

⏹️ ▶️ John to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it was also nice to have Apple’s focused more on apps and like how you spend your time on your phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not necessarily like you should spend less time this device that we make all of our money from but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you should maybe know how you’re spending that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann time

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco how often

⏹️ ▶️ John you pick up your phone like it regardless of what happens how many times you sleep and wake your phone like how much are you taking your phone out

⏹️ ▶️ John of your pocket and I feel like that was sort of the overall things like it’s not just about the apps it’s about don’t be on

⏹️ ▶️ John your phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah I thought it was really good another

Notifications, DND

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Another thing that was related to that, I think, or around the same time in the keynote was we started talking about notifications.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And one thing that we’ve all been asking for, and they kind of just flashed on screen and then didn’t really make much of it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I really am interested in is, I think they called it tuning notifications. Instant tuning. There you go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t want to see these notifications anymore. And right in the context of the notification

⏹️ ▶️ Casey itself, you can just bloop, bloop, and say, don’t ever bother me about this again. Or I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John look at what the options were. One

⏹️ ▶️ John was like, don’t make noises for this thing, and one was don’t show this. Honestly, I’m surprised it took them so long to do

⏹️ ▶️ John this feature, because how many of us, you see a notification, but you can’t, you’re like, oh, I’d have to go into settings and find where that app

⏹️ ▶️ John is, and scroll, scroll, scroll, and find it, and turn off notifications. Right there is when you want

⏹️ ▶️ John to take action against it. Although, they did say press into. Does that mean it’s like force

⏹️ ▶️ Marco press? I wrote that down. So, Craig said a couple of times, he said press in instead of saying 3D Touch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe they finally figured out 3D Touch is a terrible name. But if

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s 3D touch, nobody’s going to know that feature exists. That’s true. So you’re going to have to tell everyone in your

⏹️ ▶️ John family, if you see a notification you don’t like, press really hard on your phone screen. Not that hard, just a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then dismiss that thing. And they’ll be like, oh, that’s great. And then the next question will be, why does Apple do that? Why do

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to press hard? And they’ll say, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Because reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s no room for a button. There’s no room for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything. I don’t know. It looked really good, though. And that’s one of those things that I only got a glance during the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey keynote, but I’m really looking forward to seeing more about that. And I think it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that clever inherently, but I think it’s well done, and it’s the right way to handle that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey problem. Additionally, they’re grouping notifications now, because as I’ve gotten slightly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better about not using my phone constantly, I will occasionally come back to my phone to 3,000 notifications.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I actually have tuned a lot of my notifications already to go away. And I’ll still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann what feels like, well, maybe not. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess I’ve got a long way to go. But I will still come back to just a mountain of notifications. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s just, where do I go from here? This is not helpful or useful. How do I even know what’s the most important

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing on this list?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if they group by app, does that help you?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Potentially, because at least I can scan and see, OK, which of these apps is the most important, which I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will inevitably conclude Twitter. But it really is probably iMessage or something like that. But nevertheless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that was really good. And there was something else. Deliver

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quietly, I thought, was really cool. I think John, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco may have mentioned that a second ago. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the thing where like, it would go straight to notification

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann center and not show up as

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John like a loud, alerted

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Yeah, they’re shuffling all the deck chairs in this, I don’t know, this Titanic, but it’s like, like the thing where I don’t wanna, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna, you know, my phone wakes me up in the middle of the night and I wanna see all the notifications around, you know, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John So hide them all until the morning. They’re still there, they’re still gonna be there. Oh, we

⏹️ ▶️ John have a button when you wanna see them. I guess, like, I don’t know, I don’t know if this is appealing to people, but like,

⏹️ ▶️ John the notification, it’s still gonna be there in the morning. I don’t want to be bombarded with them in the morning. I don’t know. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a good read on people’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco relationship with their phone. I think you could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look at you could compare it a lot to RSS readers where you know people a lot of times people go through the cycle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with RSS readers where they would start using an RSS reader. They start clean because it was too overwhelming before. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco start clean and they would subscribe to like 50 high traffic feeds and then two days later they would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have 10,000 unread items and they would say RSS readers are too hard to manage,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m overwhelmed. The actual solution to that is use some self-control with the feeds you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco subscribe to. But that didn’t actually, that wasn’t a good enough solution for a lot of people. A lot of people are like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I want all of this sometimes, but not all the times. And you, app, magically figure it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So notifications I think are a similar thing where people want a lot of notifications. Most people are not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like me. Most people don’t cut them down to the bone. Most people get too many notifications. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they want to do about that is not to turn off an entire apps notifications. What they want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is for there to somehow be a more manageable setup to this. And so, you know, I have a hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time understanding that because that’s not how I use my phone. The same way I never had a problem with RSS reader overload. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not everybody. Most people have this problem with notification overload and don’t deal with it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the, you know, the quote, correct way. So the system has to accommodate that. It’s the accommodate the way people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually use their phones.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s made a new form of anxiety though. Now, when you wake up in the middle of the night and look at your phone and you don’t see any notifications,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re wondering, I wonder how many notifications are hidden. Did I just get a text from my mother

⏹️ ▶️ John saying somebody died? What’s going on? That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something you worry about every single night?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John No, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John worry about it at all. What I’m saying, if you’re waking up and you’re like, oh, I see these notifications, I now have to sit up and text people at 2

⏹️ ▶️ John a.m. Aren’t you also wondering what you’re not seeing? I don’t know. I obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey don’t know. I think for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, so having an infant at home, there are times when I’ll pick up my phone at like three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the morning and just wanna know what time it is. And inevitably, because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have no self-control, I’ll see, oh, Mike has already been up for three hours and he sent me like 13

⏹️ ▶️ Casey messages about something important. And so I might as well answer them. And so then the next thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know, it’s like five in the morning and I’ve been up for two hours. And I blame it on Mike, but really the reality of the situation is it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John fault. But imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John that you had like a baby monitor notification too, like you’d want those to go through. I think we still need

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann more flexibility.

⏹️ ▶️ John just grouping by app, it’s an improvement, it’s a step in the right direction, but I think there’s still a lot more that can be done in terms of prioritizing

⏹️ ▶️ John notifications and setting up rules and help set up a workflow or whatever. We didn’t get that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s called a shortcut, John. There was also do not disturb enhancements. It didn’t seem like there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was a lot of enhancement to it, but there was some, and some, you know, for such an incredibly basic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system that we had before, some enhancement is nice. Like for instance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey And they were clever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like it was like, you know, it would read your calendar. And so one of the options you would get when you turn it on is do not disturb

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until the end of this calendar event or after until this evening or for one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hour or for like if you leave a geofence area. Those are all clever things. I wish the system was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still a little bit more under your control and a little more powerful but those are all welcome like it’s better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I thought it was really good and there were clever examples like I think they said in the keynote you know snooze until you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey leave or do not disturb until you leave the movie theater which I thought was a great example because presumably you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to be that person who’s getting all sorts of messages and whatnot in the midst of a movie

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the phone should be intelligent enough to know you’re at a friggin movie theater so when you leave the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey movie theater that might be an appropriate time to start letting you see these notifications. I feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John this is kind of like self-driving cars where we’re in this uncomfortable weird middle period where it can’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John everything for you like you can’t people don’t have the expectation that I will just have my phone I won’t touch

⏹️ ▶️ John it and when I wander into a movie theater it will go to do not disturb it’ll silence itself and when I leave it’ll turn back on, it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John hide things, it’ll do everything for me because it knows. We’re not there. People don’t expect that. But we have these features that are

⏹️ ▶️ John close to that that will suggest if you use this feature it makes it easy to do that, but you still have to

⏹️ ▶️ John initiate it. So I wonder how long it will be before our phones get smart enough to be like you said, where they do all that stuff for

⏹️ ▶️ John you. But right now we’re like, we always have to nudge it. Do the thing. I’m in the movie, do the movie

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Maybe I can set up a shortcut there. I’m leaving the movie. Like there’s these different points where the phone is asking

⏹️ ▶️ John you to do something. It won’t do it unprompted, but it wants you to like sort of lead it by the nose,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s the things that we’ll do are more sophisticated.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The other thing about this that I thought was that it was another instance of force press too, or 3D touch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco or whatever. Push in. Push in. Yeah, push in.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Press in. We’re not pushing. Pushing is aggressive. Pressing is nice. Are you sure?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Can I press you, Marco? Nope.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, but that’s another example of where I think it’s semi-undiscoverable, and I’m a little worried

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about that. But all in all I am two thumbs up on these improvements, and I think they looked really good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Aftershocks and the weightless wireless Trex

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air bone conduction headphones. I have these right here in my hand you can see how incredibly tiny these are. They weigh nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here. Are

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann those heavy? Nobody can see them Mark. That’s a podcast. It is a podcast but just 900 people

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann can see them. But they are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey super tiny. I have a pair as well and they are great. They’re super great to run with especially to listen to podcasts.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Maybe even pair them with your Apple Watch which we’ll talk about later.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes we will. So yeah so the Aftershocks bone conduction headphones. These things are great. So the way these work is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they basically sit on your… Here, you can actually…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I will model, ladies and gentlemen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So these actually sit in front of your ear rather than in your ear. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what this means is… Man, you look good in those. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey you. Should I just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey leave them on for the rest of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco show? Yeah, it’s a good look.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what this means basically is there’s nothing blocking your ears so you don’t get all sweaty in the summertime

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or when you’re exercising, and also you can hear the world around you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while you also hear the podcast or the phone call that you’re listening to inside the Trex Air.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so it ends up being really useful for situations like if you’re running outside or if you’re doing stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco around the house where you also want to hear what’s going on in the world around you. You need to hear ambient noise.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you’re outside, you want to hear like if there’s a car coming or something like that, or if you’re in your house, you want to hear if someone knocks on the door

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something like that. So the Aftershocks are wonderful for that. And it’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re so small and so lightweight, you barely even feel them. This is less, this is 1.06 ounces for this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And everything else about it is great too. The battery life is great, the Bluetooth reception is great, of course it’s wireless.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Bluetooth reception is great. They have a two-year warranty. You know, it’s everything you want out of a Bluetooth headphone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially great for talk content. That’s what I really use mine for. You know, they’re a little small for music, but for talk content, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are awesome because you can just hear everything around you as you’re doing what you need to do. And it’s just so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice in the summertime. As I said, they don’t make you sweaty. They are waterproof, so you don’t have to worry if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sweating all over them, if you’re working out, or if you get caught in the rain, or anything like that. They’re just wonderful. know.


⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can check out the Aftershocks new weightless wireless TREX-AIR bone conduction headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They retail for $180 and you can snag a pair for $30 off by visiting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and using code ATP30. That’s once again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and code ATP30 to save $30 off the weightless wireless

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TREX-AIR bone conducting headphones. Thank you so much to Aftershocks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for letting me hear my podcast all summer long as I walk outside and I can hear everything around me and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t get all sweaty, and also for supporting this show. All right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’re almost through iOS. We have to talk communication. I am happy to report that your tongue now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exists for your Animoji, which is extremely good news. I’m very excited about this. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love the deadpan delivery that Federighi did with this feature and whatever the next one was, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the me moji, I believe, like his his deadpan of like we have a new feature tongue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco detection. You can now detect your tongue.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Does anyone

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann know if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like if it’s levels or is a binary tongue out or tongue in? This is what I need to know.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought it was I thought it was I believe it was analog you could say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but but but no I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John am actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See their computers. Yeah fine fine but no I did it all kidding aside I think that looks good and certainly you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the handful of times that like Declan has played with my phone and with He tries to stick his tongue out and is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey confused why it doesn’t work. And I think it adds a little bit to it. They added a few new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey animals. Let me see if I can read my own chicken scratch. The ghost, the koala, the tiger, and the T-Rex, which was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good. And they did Memoji, which was one of those moments where I was conflicted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in trying to figure out, do I hate this or do I think this is amazing? And the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey conclusion I came to is, this is probably going to be amazing. And the reason I… Go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ahead, go ahead. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason, Captain Kim Rajin, why I think this is gonna be good is because they seem super configurable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now let me tell you, if you happen to be friends with John Siracusa and create yourself a Mii on a Nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey platform, you better bring your A-game or you will for years hear about how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your Mii looks to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John nothing like you.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because people make the Mii of the person they want to be. like so it doesn’t look like them like

⏹️ ▶️ John you know everyone goes to the thing and it’s like their hair is a different. It’s like darker than

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann is and they go to

⏹️ ▶️ John like the like the weight slider and they make themselves how they used to be twenty years ago and their

⏹️ ▶️ John and their face has some characteristic about it, but they don’t put that characteristic in because they always hated their chin, so they

⏹️ ▶️ John make a really tiny chin. It doesn’t look like them. It looks like just a random person. Anyway, I think if someone comes

⏹️ ▶️ John over your house and sees your little me’s lined up, they should be able to say who everybody is in the They shouldn’t say generic

⏹️ ▶️ John male boy, generic female

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco woman.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna go home and update my Nintendo Wii to have a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John giant head of hair.

⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t I make you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco one, Casey? Didn’t I make you one? No, you never

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey made me one.

⏹️ ▶️ John We need to fix this. I think that Wii is irrelevant though. It was the Nintendo that was first with the Wii, you could make little avatars of

⏹️ ▶️ John yourself. And it was actually fairly limited configurability, but people got creative with it. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John Xbox did it, Microsoft did it. What do they call them, Xbox? I don’t even remember. Avatars, all right. And the Xbox ones

⏹️ ▶️ John were less cartoony than the Nintendo ones. Like, they looked more like these Memoji. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John where I think we’re in this weird kind of uncanny valley, where they start to look like Pixar people from Toy Story,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they didn’t quite know how to do people yet. A little bit like, you know how dolls are

⏹️ ▶️ John scary, right? Like, it’s kind of scary doll people. The Miis were so clearly cartoony

⏹️ ▶️ John and so simplified. When you start making them look more photorealistic, especially when you put them on the head of people,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s kind of like that horse head mask, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m a little bit creeped out by it. I don’t like them to be that photorealistic. I wish they were more like the

⏹️ ▶️ John ones on Nintendo platforms and less like the Xbox ones.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann And I wonder

⏹️ ▶️ John how many people are going to make one for themselves. Because honestly, anybody in your life, if they made one of these and

⏹️ ▶️ John they tried to video conference you with the thing on them, wouldn’t the first thing you say was get that stupid thing off your head? Like you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann want to see.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not cute. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, I think it is cute. But I think they struck a pretty good balance of cartoony but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also being expressive, like having a wide range of expression. And it kind of fits the style

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of their emoji, which so like you basically can make your own emoji face in Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John style. I agree with that,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like Tim Cook’s face is long, right? And so when Tim Cook was there you could tell they wanted it to be him because of the glasses and the

⏹️ ▶️ John gray hair, but it didn’t look like Tim Cook, because Tim Cook’s face is long, but there was like a round little emoji head, so it looked like

⏹️ ▶️ John Tim Cook wearing like a scary doll head.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I think part of that was like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann could even,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann was so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t even get the references in person’s

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann hear

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I didn’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hear you all right anyway like I feel like the the memoji system looked so impressive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at how expressive it could be that you could even see how uncomfortable Tim was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann you could see him like really forcing wet on the side before yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really forcing that smile you could just tell like I can’t wait for this to be over like you can just tell like that is not Tim Cook’s game

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all do you think he uses that a lot at work

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah I think

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann he does

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the struggle I have with this is sitting here now truly I’m really enthusiastic about this I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think this could be really fun, but I think that I have two problems. Number one, I’ll never be able to use this,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use this with John because he’ll criticize my memoji.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann You don’t use it every time. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that’s true. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann FaceTime me

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann anyway. Would you like me to? No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann we can start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing this podcast with group FaceTime, which is now a thing. Hey,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey true. Well, hold on. We’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco give me a second.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco YouTube version. This is all three of our memojis.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my God. Let’s do it. Let’s do

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. We finally

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann figured out how to use YouTube.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We finally cracked YouTube, you guys. It just happened. I’m sure no one else will have this idea. No, not a single

⏹️ ▶️ Casey person. But sitting here now, I’m really enthusiastic about it. I think it could be really fun, especially all kidding

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aside. If I can dial in my Memoji in a way that looks representative of me, I think it could be really fun. But that being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, I thought Animojis were going to be really fun, and I used them for a week and never looked back. So I’m not convinced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this is really going to move the needle on Animoji use. But sitting here now, I am enthusiastic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about it, And it does look like it could be a lot of fun. All right, so group FaceTime. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is something that I think we all kind of expected to be around now. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco had just been on. Yeah, it’s called

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Hangouts, right? Yeah, that’s exactly what it is. Actually, it’s Apple Meet now, isn’t it? Something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. That sounds really weird. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann but there’s group FaceTime.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s group FaceTime now. And everyone sitting around me was like, OK, yeah, that’s cool. It’ll be like three or four people. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great. 32 people? How is that manageable? Like, that’s great. I’m excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about it. But how is that manageable? We don’t know that it is. Well, fair. But it did look really cool. It had that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple visual flair, which I’m not sure if that’s the appropriate time for visual flair.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was a lot of dead space there. It looked aesthetically neat, but I’m not sure that that is the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey appropriate or useful way to represent a whole bunch of talking heads. But nevertheless, all told, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am really interested in this. I think it’s really cool. It would be nice, because I have two younger brothers, both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of whom live in different parts of California. My parents live 45 minutes away from me. it would be cool to have a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey family get-together, which I’m sure will never actually happen. But hypothetically, in my fantasy world, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it would be neat to be able to do that. Maybe once a month we could all get on group FaceTime and just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of hang out for a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few minutes. You are the only person in the world who wants to create more family get-togethers.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can tell which squares are your parents because it’s facing the table or the ceiling. Like, I can

⏹️ ▶️ John only see the top of your head, mom. Look down.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s also really cool the way it’s integrated into messaging groups also. So like if you have an iMessage group,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can just like go into a FaceTime thing with everyone. That’s a really cool feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still waiting for parody with iChat because in iChat, correct me if I’m wrong, you used to be able to like share a document and often

⏹️ ▶️ John if I’m on a FaceTime, it’s like, oh, we took this cute picture of, you know, the dog or your grandchild. Take a look

⏹️ ▶️ John at it. I want to serve up the picture as well. It seems like it would be easy thing to do, but instead we end up like pointing the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John at like a computer screen to show them the picture. So we’re getting there. But it also gave me kind of a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit of PTSD flashbacks about like massive video conferences at work,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John because we have those cameras where whoever’s talking, it’ll focus on them. There’s a couple of cool cameras that’ll do this. It’ll split

⏹️ ▶️ John it. They’ll take the screen and split it up. And as the person talks, their square will get bigger. To your point, it’s more space efficient than

⏹️ ▶️ John what they did. But yeah, this looks like a good. I’m glad they do a multi-person. The first person to do a

⏹️ ▶️ John 32-person thing, they’ll probably put it up on YouTube, speaking of. But that just seems like too much.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And actually, I did think the demo was really cool. And one of the things that, on a meta level, that I thought was interesting is,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what was that demo prep like? That must have been really, really interesting. And it seemed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like everything behind them was at least mildly staged, of course. And it looked like there were 15, 20 engineers on the call.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And from what I gathered, that is legitimately the FaceTime team. That wasn’t mock-ups. That wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actors or actresses. That was the FaceTime team. And just the administrivia of getting that demo done

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just seemed like it would be an immense amount of work. But it went off. It played really well. I thought it was really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey awesome. They make the

⏹️ ▶️ John construction crew be the first to walk over the bridge they built. It’s that kind of thing. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John Good motivation.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yikes. All right, so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything else on iOS? I think we’re good, right? Sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are also sponsored this week by Audible. Audible is also right here at Alt Conf.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They really support the community and they’re hiring developers. Learn more at

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco entertaining and informing millions of listeners around the world for years. Audible members have

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco of listeners thanks very much to audible for sponsoring our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Let’s talk watch OS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann we got to pick up the pace.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey don’t worry,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann tvOS will save us a lot of time. That’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Competitions are a thing. So if you’re at WWDC, I assume this is either similar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or vaguely related, maybe not. But if you’re at WWDC and you’re an attendee, there’s actually an app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey written by LoseIt where you can form a group of up to four people. And based

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on how much you complete your rings during the day or during the week, you accumulate points and eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can get to the point that you can win some sort of free swag at the end of the week at DubDub. This sounded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at a glance very similar, but it also seemed like more personal, like I could challenge you, since you never wear your watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to some sort of competition, which I will obviously win.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Since you never win.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly. But in principle, I like it. I think it’s a good idea. I’m just gonna keep cruising and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somebody interrupt me. Workout start, stop automatically or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John semi-automatically?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is kind of like the thing nudging you. It doesn’t start automatically, but it suggests to you, it looks like you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John writing a letter. No, it says it looks like you’ve started a workout. I got that reference, John. Good. Thank you. It looks like you started

⏹️ ▶️ John a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey workout. And then if you say yes, it retroactively

⏹️ ▶️ John counts all the parts for you, but it won’t actually start it. And I was talking to somebody, I think it was Scott McNulty, who was saying

⏹️ ▶️ John he uses Fitbit because it doesn’t ask him anything. It just starts the workout when he exercises, so he doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John to think about it. So the Apple Watch is still not at that point. It still wants you to nudge it and say yes, Which is good for

⏹️ ▶️ John not accidentally starting workouts, but bad, I mean, say you do the whole workout and it automatically

⏹️ ▶️ John stops it, does that notification go away? You don’t get credit? I find it still this uneasy middle ground

⏹️ ▶️ John between complete automation and needing you to give it the go ahead to say that you’re in a workout,

⏹️ ▶️ John which I feel like it should know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, the next thing they talked about was walkie-talkie, and so now we can all be Dick Tracy, which is super

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exciting. Like, legitimately, we can all be Dick Tracy. And as a kid who enjoyed the movies, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I never read the comics, but the movie. Anyway, I think that’s amazing that we can have this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey walkie talkie on our wrist. That being said, I grew up in the Northeast during the time that NexTel phones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were a thing. Do you remember this? Push to talk,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it was the worst. And you would be in the grocery store. Hey, did you want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bananas? No, I wanted apples. It was just, and it was like a billion decibels,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it was terrible. If you don’t remember this, consider yourself very lucky because A, you’re probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey young and B, you didn’t have to deal with it, but it was the worst. So I’m very curious to see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if anyone ever uses this feature for any reason, but I am in full support of it being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a thing. I just can’t imagine a time that I would use it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think it’s gonna be, this is like a much better solution to watch to watch quick communication

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than digital touch and everything. So I think this is a good, it’s a good move. I don’t know what kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of adoption it will get, but it looks pretty good to me. The only thing is like when when the message comes in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to your watch, does your watch just start making noise or do you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey have to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco accept it and to play it?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann know

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, I think it’s pre announces with a buzz and a beep, but I don’t know again. I don’t know if you need to like do something to allow it to happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if you if you know your friends are like out somewhere like sensitive and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just make their watch start talking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann would be pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun. There’s probably some kind of like you know taps you and you have to tap to play it. It doesn’t replace your walkie

⏹️ ▶️ John talkies, though, sadly, because it they said Wi Fi and cellular. So if you again if you’re with you without signal.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not like the watches are radio to radio communicating with each other. You need internet access. It’s as far as I could tell from the

⏹️ ▶️ John keynote.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you totally do. And yeah, I got like a thousand tweets when that was announced saying that they were like, my walkie talkies were no longer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey necessary, but trust me, they are.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving along, Siri shortcuts are in the Siri watch face, which is exciting. One of the things I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really looking forward to was enhancements to the Siri’s watch face. This isn’t quite as much as I wanted, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey certainly a step in the right direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To me, this is a really good thing because what we’re seeing with the watch, And we’ll get to some of the audio stuff in a second.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think what we’ve all seen as developers is that it’s hard to maintain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a watchOS app that’s a really compelling, good experience for most apps. For most apps, they seem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better served just using notifications as your UI that happens to also show on the watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the combination of notifications getting better and getting more interactive, as well as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having the new Siri shortcuts being third party capable to show up in the Siri face and everything,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Siri watch face itself, which it kind of came after my time of using the watch, but you know, a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of our friends love it. Like it seems like the Siri watch face is very popular and it kind of seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the entire model of having like regular watch apps, like third party watch apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and even complications and everything seems like that is on the way out or being strongly de-emphasized

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now that we’ve learned, you know, both we as developers and Apple and users have learned like what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the watch really better at? Like what’s the best way to use this device? It does seem like we’re moving away

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from apps more and more and more towards smart suggestion things as part of the Siri face

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and more interactive notifications and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know when I when I saw this they spent so much time those hey we intense the Siri watch face and then they should

⏹️ ▶️ John feature after feature after feature all of which only worked as far as I can tell in the Siri watch face which

⏹️ ▶️ John is your but it’s like is that a watch face or is that just how the whole watch should work now because what if you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to use the Siri watch face? A lot of people I know you have an Apple Watch and don’t use a Siri watch face. They can’t get

⏹️ ▶️ John any of these features. It’s my understanding from the demo. All those features might as well not exist, but a lot of them are useful features.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s like, okay, if you want your watch to be really useful, the trick is that the tech nerds will tell you is you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to use a Siri watch face and they’re like, but I want to see a picture of my kid. I don’t want to use the Siri watch face. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John think they have to figure out is this how the watch works or is this just how one watch face works or you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John make third party watch faces and let them all integrate the same way the Siri watch face does.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no I mean I think I think this is the answer to why there aren’t third-party watch faces and also why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple hasn’t really added a lot of their own watch faces. I think what they’re what they are probably seeing the same thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that our friends use the Siri watch face we’re seeing which is oh this is actually better this actually is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch OS really this is this is the like one default interface to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch the idea of watch faces is probably on the way out to but do you think most people

⏹️ ▶️ John use the Siri watch face? I see Apple watch watches all the time, they do not use a Siri watch face.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the question is, if the Siri watch face was the default, would customers hate it? People

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John look for Siri watch faces, they pick the ones

⏹️ ▶️ John they like how they look.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco The Siri watch face

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t look good in the screen where you swipe through the

⏹️ ▶️ John things. They’re like, I like this one, I like that one. They don’t know all the functionality that would be exposed by that. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll default it. If they default it, then that’s how they’ll win.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’ll see, but it’s a good sign, no matter how you slice it. Moving right along, web content

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in text messages and things like that. You can get basic web content in there, which I’m really excited about. So if somebody sends you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a tweet or a link to a menu, I think they even said that they would be able to display. Good luck with that

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Flash website. You can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco even

⏹️ ▶️ John see that in Safari anymore because they deprecated

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the whole plugin. Well, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s why Kevin Lynch is on the watch. It’ll show Flash.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh, there it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But they said they would use ReaderView if such a thing was possible, which I thought was great. We could probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go on for three hours about this, but we’ll hopefully keep it pretty short. But podcasts is a thing on the watch in a first party

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sense, which is great. And additionally, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco APIs. Talk about a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco roller coaster of emotions, by the way.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, I can imagine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can imagine. You had a stressful couple of minutes there. But also, there’s a third party API for playing background audio,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which from what I understood from Underscore when we were chatting over lunch, it’s a pretty robust

⏹️ ▶️ Casey API. And I didn’t get a chance to look at the ins and outs of it. And I don’t know if you have, Marco, but it seemed like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can now do a legitimate overcast on the watch, which I, for one, am really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited for.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I haven’t actually tried it yet. But I did look at the APIs, and they look pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. It looks like Apple looked at my blog post of why I can’t make a watch app and did every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco single thing on it. So I really, really hope it works out well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the downside is I’m going to have a busy summer. But this is in a very good way, because I’ve wanted to bring that feature back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever since I killed it. I get emails every single day about it. And it’s such an obvious

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feature that my app desperately needs. Not only that, but we also now have volume control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco widgets on the watch that we can embed. Thank goodness, like, talk about a finally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, literally about half of the people who have my app and have a watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco paired to their phone don’t have the app installed. Because if you have it installed, it’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a worse experience for controlling your phone’s audio than if you don’t even have it installed at all. Because it doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco volume control. And now it appears, again, I haven’t tried this yet, but it appears that I can do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s almost as big of a deal as the standalone podcast playback.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Yeah, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John really excited for that. Can we give a brief shout out to that woman who did a presentation while exercising?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh God, yes, that was

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, thank you. You could not have paid me enough to do that. She handled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a public

⏹️ ▶️ John speaking on hard mode like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you do not want

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann to

⏹️ ▶️ John be out of breath and I was so like I was so tense because she would get more out of breath and she increased the tension. I don’t really

⏹️ ▶️ John increase attention. Just pretend you’re doing it. We won’t know. That was That was pretty amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not sure how good of a demo it made, but it was good

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann theater.

Diversity on stage

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann It very much was.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we should take a moment to note that by my count, there was Tim,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there was Kevin Lynch, there was Craig, there was the gentleman from Adobe, and there were the LEGO

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two or three people, which is a lot of dudes for sure. But every other Apple person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was brought on stage, I think literally every other one, was a woman, and in some cases,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not a white person, which is tremendous. And we’ve been banging this drum for a long time. And I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really happy to see that there was definite progress in that department. It’s not perfect. I got a handful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of angry tweets in reply to me, congratulating Apple on this about, oh, well, they didn’t have this, they didn’t have that. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes, I understand that, but this is a great step. And this is a lot better than it was a couple of years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago when I started to be aware of it and started to pay a lot more attention to it. So I’m really pleased with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple that the diversity is on stage is looking way up. And that was great. Yeah, we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can do that. We can absolutely do that. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you. Thank you.


⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we also had a Apple TV update that contains

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nothing for

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann developers. Yeah, it’s Apple TV, still a thing. Moving

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is something where like, you know, like our friend John Gruber likes to sometimes say that like, you know, you look at other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco companies’ keynotes that are often too long or too bloated, and you can kind of see like the org chart in the, in like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what gets in the keynote, and like every department has to have their say and has to have their keynote time. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of felt like that. This kind of felt like we have to say something about tvOS, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was entirely about new consumer level features and features that are built into their own media players

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stuff, like there was nothing for developers at all. And there was

⏹️ ▶️ John another one of those releases where they tout features that rely entirely on how much adoption they

⏹️ ▶️ John get from big third parties. So like, great, it’ll integrate with all your cable as long as you have charter

⏹️ ▶️ John cable. Yeah, right. Comcast, Verizon, we don’t know who those people are. Zero sign

⏹️ ▶️ John on, we’ll figure out what network you’re on and not have you sign on if you’re on charter cable. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was like, they even said it, they announced single sign on before and nothing happened because none of us have those

⏹️ ▶️ John providers so we’re all still typing in those three letter codes. They did say 50% year over year growth on Apple TV which I think was

⏹️ ▶️ John good and they did tout the things they have to tout which is like Apple TV, we support all these standards, we do Dolby Vision

⏹️ ▶️ John and now we have Atmos and that’s all good, thumbs up, but they still face headwinds as Tim

⏹️ ▶️ John would say in the market in terms of, they want to make the experience easier but Comcast and Verizon

⏹️ ▶️ John do not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco want them to make

⏹️ ▶️ John the experience easier and they are at an impasse. So I wish them luck, but I’m glad they’re adding

⏹️ ▶️ John the tech features to the Apple TV, even if they’re not able to integrate and make the user experience

⏹️ ▶️ John as good as they could. They can fix the remote any time they want though. No one’s stopping them from doing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann it.

⏹️ ▶️ John They even touted you can use cable company remotes, like oh, how far we’ve fallen, where people are applauding for the ability

⏹️ ▶️ John to use the Comcast remote with their Apple TV.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which by the way, you can do now. It has always learned, you can learn with your iRemote, but there’s no trackpad on it, it’s just.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco But now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said you can also now trigger Siri from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John third-party remotes, which is something you couldn’t do before.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I don’t know which microphone you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco would talk into. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John if that’s the Comcast, some of the Comcast mics do have, other cable companies do have microphones.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe they’re opening up, like maybe at the fall event, we’ll see a new remote from Logitech that is like an alternate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TV

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John remote that includes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the microphone and everything that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John kind of work with Apple. Third

⏹️ ▶️ John parties make the controllers, third parties make the remotes. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, that’s not a bad solution. It’s not a great solution, but it’s better than what we have now.

⏹️ ▶️ John With your next Mac, you’ll get, I was gonna say you have the biologic mouse and the Microsoft keyboard that you have any

⏹️ ▶️ John use the apple mouse nut. Anyway, I hope I want them to make at a peripheral.

macOS Mojave

⏹️ ▶️ John All

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann right, so speaking of the Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So how do we pronounce this John you were trying to explain this to us earlier? I already forgot.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Someone

⏹️ ▶️ John some random person on Twitter said Mojave

⏹️ ▶️ John People say long e. All right, we’ll do that then Oh, did you see that the the closed caption person spoiled the name apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John in the caption stream? They hit the wrong button or something early on and if you were watching the closed captions You learn

⏹️ ▶️ John the name of the new Mac OS before they announced it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But that was in English, not Chinese or whatever. All right, so I’m going to try to speedrun this, and I’m going to make

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it probably four sentences

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann before I get stopped. See, I didn’t even finish that sentence!

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I didn’t even finish that sentence! Come on! We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John talking about the Mac! I

⏹️ ▶️ John just want to say how they framed it. First of all, he came out and said, we love the Mac, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John a doth protest too much thing even though that is the incorrect interpretation of that phrase from Shakespeare. Look it up.

⏹️ ▶️ John But everybody knows what I mean. Everyone knows the reverse one. Everybody knows what I mean. Everyone knows the reverse one. And he said, this is a release that’s chock

⏹️ ▶️ John full of new features. So that was like the first two sentences they said. This is not zero new features. This is not

⏹️ ▶️ John a rebuilding year. They tried to pitch this as chock full of new features. And there were new features, but I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not going to say it was chock full. All right, anyway, go ahead.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the other thing they said, thank you, Dad. The other thing they said was, it’s inspired by pro users

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and designed for everyone, which I thought was a great line. I haven’t decided how much they achieved that, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was a great line. Dark mode is what we all knew was coming. Dynamic desktop, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has things like desktop stacks, which I thought was a very cool and clever implementation that, again, is a great example of Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doing Apple things in a great Apple-y way. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John that stacks thing, I was trying, I was racking my brain to figure out where I’d seen that before. I was like, did they, was that

⏹️ ▶️ John in like Mac OS 8 when it was Copeland? And did they implement that in like a beta of Mac OS 10? I

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t recall, and eventually figured it out. It was, God, this is a terrible name, but it was the pile metaphor.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can have piles. And this was from, I think it was from Apple’s advanced technology group in 1992.

⏹️ ▶️ John The same thing, it was like a paper on how you can pile things and how it’s a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John way of organizing stuff. And so now, finally, they’ve shipped this idea they’ve had forever.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m unconvinced of how good this is because, yeah, you have a messy desktop and then

⏹️ ▶️ John they all go sorted into piles and you can scrub over them. But I think if you did that to someone’s messy

⏹️ ▶️ John desktop, they’d be like, where’s all my stuff? Where did it all go? like, oh, don’t worry, all your images are in the

⏹️ ▶️ John image pile. It’s like, no, but I had it arranged. The lower left was these things. Like, I feel like they don’t recognize, and I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John said a million times, the reason people use a desktop is it’s the one place on their computer that they can always find

⏹️ ▶️ John and spatially arrange things. And it’s not arranged well, just like people’s houses and desks aren’t arranged well.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s the one place they know where to find. And it does not move. And if you put an icon in the lower left and a big

⏹️ ▶️ John clump of icons, they’re always in the lower left. So I guess I could say, you want to run this experiment,

⏹️ ▶️ John find someone with a messy desktop show them the piles feature and watch the horror on their face when all their

⏹️ ▶️ John icons get sorted into piles like there better be an undo for that. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s an interesting feature and I think people can use it, but they’re like oh you can sort by tag. It doesn’t just have to be by kind

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you were the type of person who tags your images and your files on your desktop your desktop doesn’t look like

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re on that’s meticulously arranged. So I’m I am not sure piles

⏹️ ▶️ John or stacks or whatever the hell they’re calling them, is the greatest feature. But hey, at least they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John doing something to the Finder, right? It’s better than nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So then they have gallery view, so I guess RIP Cover Flow, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John we’re done. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John already

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann gone, isn’t it?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is the triumphant return of non-3D

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Cover Flow. Something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that. But it did look good, you know, they had a sidebar where you could get a whole bunch of metadata about pictures, for example, you could plug

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in automator actions on the side, looks really nice. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a big thing though, like that little quick action thing in that little sidebar that’s new now, that I think is gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be really useful long-term, because so it isn’t just automator action by the way, shout out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to automator on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann stage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who was expecting that anyway, so like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s automator actions or you can put in like shell scripts or apple scripts as those actions to and then apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can, I think, also expose their own actions for relevant file types and everything that sounds great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John at like as a mac theory

⏹️ ▶️ John shortcuts to right. Oh, no, I forgot not on the mac. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, it is no, but like as a user that sounds like it’s probably going to be a really useful feature just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in day to day usage of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, definitely. Quick Look seems like it’s gotten a lot of the kind of brains of preview, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very excellent. I think that looks really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a little weird that Quick Look has now become an editor. Fair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John But it’s like the markup.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all, you know, the iOS stuff. We’ll get to the screenshot stuff in a second. But yeah, you Quick Look and now you’ve got the little markup icon

⏹️ ▶️ John and you can scribble on it and save it. It’s convenient. You can do lots of stuff without going into an app. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John OpenDock resurrected in this weird way where these little views have all these little tools that now

⏹️ ▶️ John spring around them and different share actions and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But what happens if you make some edits that you don’t necessarily, I guess you don’t save it, but what if you click away to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a different window and then that window disappears, it’s a quick look window. Do those just get saved without you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know, it’s kind of odd. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, it looks neat in principle, but I agree, that it’s also odd. Continuity camera,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I- You skipped over the screenshots thing, Marko’s

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John favorite feature.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco Oh, my favorite, that’s my favorite. Again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the screenshot editor coming from iOS 11, basically, that kind of feature, coming to the Mac where you take a screenshot and it kind of shows a little overlay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it and you can pick it up right there and start editing and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Plus the additional enhancements to screenshot capture to make it easier to capture screenshots

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and screen recordings. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John video, so you don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John to use QuickTime player.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, like all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that stuff. This is again, this is more stuff that I think we will actually really use this as Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power users. I think we will, trademark, I think we really will use these features all the time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s just like things that enhance data to use for the Mac. This is one of the reasons why I’m actually very happy with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the overall amount of things that we got today because for the Mac in particular, it really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does seem like Tim’s statement about, like he said, it’s chock full of features inspired by pro users but designed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for everyone. That’s what the Mac always has been. Like the Mac has always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann been,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, a thing that was very powerful if you were a pro user or a power user, you could really get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very powerful with it. But it was also like, it was like progressive power. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new users could get, could look at it and know how to use it. These kinds of features,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we really haven’t seen these added to the Mac in a while. During the uncertain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco times of the last few years where it seemed like the Mac might be really abandoned, we really haven’t seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything like this get added in any meaningful numbers. And to have all this stuff in this release, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim’s statement was actually correct. I think this actually is new features, maybe chock full. I’ll leave that up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to you and Chalk and Barry to decide. These really are I think useful everyday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco features that like they’re not going to like you know create a whole new article on 9 to 5 Mac about them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco necessarily like they’re not like you know totally like headline grabbing things But I think these things that are really going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Be very useful to us every day all day as we use our Mac to do things

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah I think one of the best examples is that like the screenshot functionality most of the functionality for screenshots not the screen capture

⏹️ ▶️ John But the screenshots has been there, but only if you know like oh command shift is a screen, Command Shift 4, but then you

⏹️ ▶️ John hit Spacebar, switch from window to corner. Nobody knows that except for nerds, right? And now they just did a simple thing, put an overlay

⏹️ ▶️ John on the screen with little buttons. So they still might not know what they mean, but it gives you a fighting chance. There’s no way you’re going to discover

⏹️ ▶️ John Command Shift 4 Spacebar. You will not discover

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you see an overlay, you’ll try all four buttons, and eventually you’ll get it. So that’s the type of stuff they could have done years and years

⏹️ ▶️ John ago, and they just got around to it. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so hopefully continuing my not so effective speed run. Oh, before we move on. that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John good. This is legit. I’m not trying to this to you screen

⏹️ ▶️ John recording right, so they integrated screen recording and when I saw the screen recording feature, they used to be in QuickTime player

⏹️ ▶️ John like you can record the screen or regions of a river. Now it’s integrated in the screenshot. All I could think was that last year converting

⏹️ ▶️ John the Windows server to metal. This is what you get out of it. You can work the Windows server to metal and now you can integrate screen capture,

⏹️ ▶️ John presumably in a more efficient way without having an app because it’s all built. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but it just that’s what I

⏹️ ▶️ John thought about like the redoing infrastructure and causing kernel packet panics

⏹️ ▶️ John on Steve Trout and Smith’s machine constantly to rewrite the whole Windows server in metal because you know you’re going to deprecate over

⏹️ ▶️ John in GL gives you stuff like now I can do system-wide screen capture as like just a thing as part of the

⏹️ ▶️ John screenshot tool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Continuity camera? I didn’t get why that was so exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’ve got crappy cameras in the Macbooks and you have much better camera on your phone so if

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you want to scan a

⏹️ ▶️ John document.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John camera on the top

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the Macbook hasn’t changed since like 2005. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John could hold your

⏹️ ▶️ John paper up to it but won’t be able to I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco seen it yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think that’s it is a little bit questioning like they can remotely enable the camera. Is that a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco creepy thing or a security problem, but I think that will be another one of these just like everyday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco useful features like because so often I want to take a picture of something in my you know in my room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something to show someone like in slack or something. You know there’s lots of uses for this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I take the picture on the phone and because photosync is too slow. I will air drop it to myself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between my phone and my

⏹️ ▶️ John or even you put it in Dropbox and we do appear in Dropbox in your Mac, this is all sort

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of weird. Yeah, like that, it’s just, this is yet another thing that’s just gonna save time. Again, a solid feature

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably if it works well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Then they showed us news, stocks, voice memos, and the Home

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app. And it was funny, I was probably not the only, well, myself, I was sitting next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Chris Harris on the other side in the keynote, and the two of us kind of looked at each other at the same moment, and I’m sure we weren’t the only ones, but we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey realized, this kind of looks like cross-platform apps like they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dogfooding

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John something. That was like

⏹️ ▶️ John the one tweet I made. How did they port all these iOS apps to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann the Mac?

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Hmm.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Yeah, exactly. And they looked

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey like the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann apps. Yeah, they were iOS apps with a title bar. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly. So at this point, I’m starting to scratch my head and think there may be something here after

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all. But anyway, I really don’t have any particular care for any of these apps, but I’m glad that they’re on the Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then they talked about security and privacy. I didn’t write any sub notes for that, so I don’t even know what they said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I’m glad to see that security and privacy is still a priority.

⏹️ ▶️ John It surprised me that when they were going through the, here’s all the things you get notified for, can I have access to your location, your contacts

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever? And I was like, what are they gonna add to it? And I thought, oh, they’re gonna add camera. But I’m like, but no, don’t they

⏹️ ▶️ John have to ask permission to the camera already? Apparently not. How many people have asked before, do you think Mac apps have

⏹️ ▶️ John to ask permission to use the camera? Everyone would have said yes, but no. So they’re finally adding camera and mic to the permissions,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is nice. You skipped over a bunch of stuff too quickly, I wanna go back to. OpenGL and OpenCL,

⏹️ ▶️ John deprecated, not a surprise really. OpenCL, maybe it’s a little bit of a surprise. Maybe if you ask

⏹️ ▶️ John Gus here in the front row, he will say it is not a surprise. So it’s all metal,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? So they got the proprietary thing. No more OpenGL. They haven’t updated in years anyway. It’s a third party opportunity.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the OpenGL group has a third party OpenGL for the Mac, but that’s kind of a shame.

⏹️ ▶️ John No more 32-bit apps after Mojave. And they listed, it was kind of painful to see them list.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this means these 32 frameworks aren’t going to be there anymore. And one of them was QuickTime. and I just felt that was like

⏹️ ▶️ John end of an era. The QuickTime framework, no. Also Apple Java 1.6, nobody cares,

⏹️ ▶️ John and Carbon. And then the security stuff, where you were just going into. SIP

⏹️ ▶️ John protection for third-party apps, system integrity protection for third-party apps. I was just getting done telling you what I was

⏹️ ▶️ John able

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann to do to my work

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop to disable all the malware they install, because they can’t do SIP for third-party

⏹️ ▶️ John apps. So if you have root on your machine, you can just temporarily disable stuff, right? Now,

⏹️ ▶️ John all these people who make institutional malware, also known as antivirus software

⏹️ ▶️ John for your Macs and all sorts of other stuff, will be able to prevent you from, you know, I guess you can use

⏹️ ▶️ John the firmware to turn off system integrity protection, but it’s making people’s lives harder. I don’t like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mac App Store, still a thing. Who knew? So that’s exciting. There

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are some very interesting entries, or maybe re-entries in some cases, to the Mac App Store. coming back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the Mac App Store, which is really exciting and interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Bare Bones with BB Edit is going to be in the App Store, and that is also really exciting and interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So apparently Apple is trying to make the App Store a thing. First

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was Fetch, and then it was the Mac App Store. And apparently they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann both still a thing. Apple’s going to Corton.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John I’m gonna get

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann people to come back.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The only weird thing is like, there might be good reasons why these apps are going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back, but we weren’t told them in either the State of Union or the keynote, like we have no idea, like what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco changed? Why are these apps going back? They seem to leave for really good reasons. We don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, like there has to be some good reason why they’re all going back and why Apple’s putting all this new effort into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the app store. And if

⏹️ ▶️ John it was like changes to the Mac, obviously one of the reasons is the Mac App Store app is better, right? I mean, that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey thing they should, hey, the Mac App

⏹️ ▶️ John Store app is much, yeah, it’s much better and it’s fancier and you’ll be able to advertise your products. So that’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t connect those dots, but they did show that. But then that’s an obvious question that you asked.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, why? These people are coming back. You would think, could they have a quote or a testimonial?

⏹️ ▶️ John I left the Mac store because x, y, z. But now something has changed. And I’ve changed my mind.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe they didn’t have time to explain. Or maybe it was supposed to be self-evident. But I have the same questions about,

⏹️ ▶️ John how is the Mac App Store now a deal that these people want to be part of? Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John they just didn’t have time. Sandboxing changes, we might see later in the week. A lot of these apps were

⏹️ ▶️ John out because of sandboxing changes. So maybe there’s some changes to the sandbox that made it feasible to come back in. But

⏹️ ▶️ John in the keynote where they had a lot of time to blow up Legos, it seems like they could have put in two or three sentences

⏹️ ▶️ John about why these apps came back. Like, oh, and these apps came back for these reasons. And if you want to learn about them, see them in

⏹️ ▶️ John sessions, whatever, whatever. But anyway, I guess it’s good for Apple that they’re back. But as a

⏹️ ▶️ John consumer who has bought both of those applications, I think I’ll continue to do the direct ones. And that is

⏹️ ▶️ John the real problem for the Mac App Store. It’s like, why are people like me preferring the direct one rather than

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac App Store download? I don’t know. I think I still have work to do. But this is the first

⏹️ ▶️ John big change to the Mac App Store and forever, and so that’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s definitely progress. They talked about Metal and Core ML. And what was the thing where you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can make models a little easier? What was that called? Create

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann ML? Create ML, thank you. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty cool.

UIKit on the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s definitely cool. But in the interest of time, let’s skip over that. And let’s talk about UIKit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the Mac. It is a thing. And it is supposedly coming next year. And if the last year

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has told us anything, we’ll see what happens. But it’s supposedly coming next year. This is really exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not sure if this is good for the Mac, if it’s great for the Mac, if it’s bad for the Mac. Like, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see many different ways that this could end up. But the fact that they are publicly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey acknowledging something that smells a lot like this marzipan thing, I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey surprised and really into it. And it seems really cool. And I mean, the apps that they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show, the News app and the other ones, I wouldn’t say they looked bad by any means. I agree with what I think Marco, you had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said a minute ago. They looked like iOS apps. And yes, that’s true. But it’s not like they looked bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It looked a little bit off, but still good.

⏹️ ▶️ John The design is how it works, Casey. They work like iOS apps. I’m clicking on the upper left corner for

⏹️ ▶️ John this little back thing with a little chevron switch back in the view, that’s not how a Mac app works. I mean, I understand

⏹️ ▶️ John a tech demo, like… Just push

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the side of your screen and move over a little

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann bit. Yeah. I’m a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit…

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Push in?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes. So, we talked about how this could go. This is like a fairly timid version

⏹️ ▶️ John of the possibilities, right? So as they showed it, I mean, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a portion of a UI kit coming to the Mac. So if you have an application that uses UI kit, and if it uses

⏹️ ▶️ John some or all the portion that they bring over, then you can bring your iOS app to the Mac, which I suppose is good for

⏹️ ▶️ John making people make Mac applications, but their message is still not clear on…

⏹️ ▶️ John Like they did the thing in the State of the Union about… And AppKit, that’s the way to make apps for the Mac, and we are still…

⏹️ ▶️ John It is… I forget what they said.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John know what you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John of.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the exact wording.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not deprecated. There’s still a thing that they’re gonna support, right? So my

⏹️ ▶️ John question from when we talked about this a couple of weeks ago is like, what is Apple’s opinion of the best way

⏹️ ▶️ John to make Mac applications? What is the new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey vision? They said AppKit. I thought that’s what they said. way to make a Mac app is app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco kit. Yeah, but they were clear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about that. They were very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey clear that like app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kit should be what you use if you want to make the best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Mac app. But it

⏹️ ▶️ John seemed to me that by bringing iOS over, what they were saying is, I mean, yeah, it’s to get iOS

⏹️ ▶️ John developers to do your stuff, but it almost seemed to me that like long-term, if people keep using UI

⏹️ ▶️ John kit on the Mac and UI kit and understand scrolling and resizing and mouse events and hovering and all the things

⏹️ ▶️ John and drag and drop, all the things that they have to understand, right? Do they, why would you

⏹️ ▶️ John not make a Mac app directly in UI kit because UI kit is the easier to use more modern

⏹️ ▶️ John better fit for Swift, right? I feel like there’s a tension here between it’s kind of like carbon and cocoa in the beginning where they

⏹️ ▶️ John seem like peers and we wanted to see how it would shake out and if I was apt it, I’d be looking over my shoulder right now

⏹️ ▶️ John because because parts of you I get to coming over the part that I was excited about from a tech nerd perspective in

⏹️ ▶️ John the state of the union. They talked about it is like these two operating systems are built on the same core of you know Darwin

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything people don’t remember because no one ever says Darwin in a keynote for the past decade, but it’s there. It’s the same OS under

⏹️ ▶️ John the covers. And they said that they had drifted apart the underpinnings of iOS, because they really had

⏹️ ▶️ John to hack up Mac OS X to get it on the original iPhone. And they just drift apart, because this is suited to the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone, and that’s suited to that. And they’re going to unify those things, which is something they probably should have done a long time ago, just to have

⏹️ ▶️ John less bug surface. And now the phones are more powerful than the Macs in some cases. So yeah, unify that

⏹️ ▶️ John core layer. And then that’s like a level playing field for AppKit and UIKit to duke it out

⏹️ ▶️ John for the soul of the Mac. The four apps that they showed,

⏹️ ▶️ John they looked like iOS apps. They did not look like Mac apps. And I know they tried to say, look, it behaves like a Mac. I

⏹️ ▶️ John can select text and drag it, and it’s like, you’re not a Mac app yet. You’re not an Electron

⏹️ ▶️ John app, I’ll give you that, but you’re not a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey app.

⏹️ ▶️ John Amen, brother.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, but I think we should really congratulate Apple for dogfooding this and dogfooding it up front,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because what was it? It was iCloud Core Data that was a disaster, and it wasn’t until they started dogfooding

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the other iCloud stuff that it really got good. And so I am really enthusiastic about it, tentatively, but very enthusiastic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about this, that they’re dogfooding it, they appear to be doing it right. And that’s really exciting. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all in all, it was a pretty decent keynote. I thought it was pretty good. Now, admittedly, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had fairly low expectations in part because nothing really leaked, in part

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I didn’t know what to make of it, but I thought all told it was good. It was not the best keynote I’ve ever seen, but it was good. Do

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann you

⏹️ ▶️ John want to talk about the fact that Apple’s doing a thing now where they tell you a year ahead of time something they’re doing?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann yeah, that’s getting me out like they did

⏹️ ▶️ John with the Mac Pro. They do it with this. They do it unintentionally with airplay to and messages in the cloud

⏹️ ▶️ John air power, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John and air power, which is never coming, whatever, but they like the Mars

⏹️ ▶️ John band thing like all the rumors were dead on except for the part where they said yeah, but Apple’s going to talk about it anyway when they put it that

⏹️ ▶️ John slide in the beginning that said like Ios TV, Ios watch, OSTV, us whatever Mac OS.

⏹️ ▶️ John I knew at that point that you save you save the best for last right? What the heck do they have in Mac OS

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s like would be the best? It’s got to be the Marzipan thing, but I was like, but they said it wasn’t ready. Maybe we’re all wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it is ready this year. Nope, not ready this year, but they announced it anyway. And it’s not like they’re reacting

⏹️ ▶️ John to rumors. I just, it feels like they, Apple feels increasingly that they need to put a stake in the ground to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t worry, we’re going to fix this Mac thing. Like, not this year and not next year, but we’re going to fix it. And don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John worry, we’re going to let you do UIKit. Not this year, but we’re going to tell you about it anyway, that is,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s different for Apple. I don’t know if it’s bad or good, like it’s fun for us, we learn stuff ahead of time, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like they’re, you know, Osborne affecting themselves a little bit, like are people really going to be diving into making,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, starting a new app kit based Mac app right now or are they going to wait until next year and see how this whole

⏹️ ▶️ John UI kit on the Mac thing shakes out?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think this is, this is them kind of realizing that Mac as a, Mac OS and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac as a platform, especially like, you know, with the more recent focus of Mac as the pro platform

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by Apple. They’re finally realizing that like, you know, that pros and people who’d use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this platform for work sometimes need a roadmap. Other companies do this to Intel gives roadmaps,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Microsoft gives roadmaps, like big companies that deal with big businesses and pro customers tend to give roadmaps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that people can plan and make decisions and have some idea of what they’re in for, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, next year or, you for the next six months instead of just having like occasional things randomly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come and blindside them. So for this, like if I was a Mac developer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and say I was, you know, I had an iPad app and maybe my Mac app was, you know, a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work to maintain because I’m not that good of a Mac developer and you know, and maybe I’m having a new version that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco planning for next year. Maybe I might hold that off a little bit now. You know, like maybe not do the Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe not put a whole lot of effort into a Mac UI if my app doesn’t really necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to be the best Mac app in the world and I have to have an iOS code base anyway. This is a great thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re telling developers really major pertinent information that we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are really going to want to know a year ahead of time. That’s great. It helps us make good plans.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It helps us use our limited resources effectively. And there’s going to be a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco arguing over whether this is good for the Mac or not. We’ve had some of it on the show talking about the Marzipan rumors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I fall on the side of it being a great thing because I think, pragmatically speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this isn’t a question of whether I now have to use all of AppKit to make an overcast Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app or whether I can have my iPad app run in a little window of some kind. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was never gonna do that. I was never gonna port the whole thing to AppKit because I’ve already evaluated that option and decided

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was too much work for what it would be worth to me. So many companies find themselves in this position. That’s why we have things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Electron and all these like, you know, weird cross platform, awful frameworks that make it really hard to make good apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anywhere, because the cost of making apps on all these different platforms individually is too high

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a lot of companies and indies to justify. So if they make it easier and cheaper to make Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps, there will be more Mac apps, and Mac apps that use this like UI kit on the Mac thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I was kind of, I was, I kind of took note, they never actually named

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Yeah, I was going to say that they didn’t give it a name, which is kind of weird because like, they’re going to announce it, you can

⏹️ ▶️ John brand it, but they’re not ready to brand it. And by the way, some people did disassemble it and find some symbols

⏹️ ▶️ John inside the code base that say the word marzipan. So regardless of what

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing becomes, at some point, some part of it had the word marzipan involved in it. Which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking of, isn’t in new Macs, isn’t the, like, not the EFI, but isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there like a T2 or something like that, isn’t that running like a cut down version of iOS? Bridge OS or something? Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you start iOS to start your Mac. And then we’ve seen disassembly of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there being an iOS subsystem on your Mac. So you use iOS to start your Mac to start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not an iOS subsystem. It’s just the UIKit framework running on the Mac. They also had another fun symbol. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was like some symbol in the thing that was like something underscore

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac, something underscore iOS, and a new symbol that was something underscore iOS Mac. So it was like

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS running on your Mac. Have fun putting on all your pound of fines for the million different grades

⏹️ ▶️ John there.

Closing remarks

Chapter Closing remarks image.

⏹️ ▶️ John But anyway, good keynote, John. Yeah, they did. I forgot to mention one more one year-like thing

⏹️ ▶️ John where they announce something, and then you wait a year, and it comes. And I want Marco to be able to use his bell. So APFS

⏹️ ▶️ John Fusion Drive. Ding. Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

⏹️ ▶️ John Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

⏹️ ▶️ John Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo!

⏹️ ▶️ John Woo! Woo! Yep. So good keynote, though, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it wasn’t surprising. Everything they announced was things. Even the part that was supposedly surprising,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Marzipan, we knew all of that. But it was surprising that they said anything about it. I fully expected all that to

⏹️ ▶️ John be true about whatever this Marzipan thing is, and then just not say anything about it. But Mac OS at the end of

⏹️ ▶️ John the keynote means Mac OS is the star, kind of. I’m not sure it’s chock full of anything.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m really nervous about the Mac applications. I’m making air quotes. You can’t see it.

⏹️ ▶️ John but at least we’ll get, what are we, I was gonna say at least we’ll get Overcast on the Mac, but will we? Can we get exclusive

⏹️ ▶️ John here on this podcast? Marco, will you commit to Overcast on the Mac and tvOS?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If it’s as easy to port my iPad app as they seem to indicate that it is, yeah, why would I not do that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To spite Casey? I can always hire him to do it. Right? That would be kind of amazing though.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and the whole thing with Overcast for the Mac is that was when I was sitting at a computer for 40 to 50 hours

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann don’t even need it anymore. Yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t even care anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann But that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann it’s Margo. Forget it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it’s not happening.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Jonathan Mann Sorry all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey over. As you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quit your job, I can make over cash for the Mac. You got your polo shirt. That’s true. That is true.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann So we should talk about the video at the end to yeah. Oh the ending video yeah. I thought that was nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann It was cute

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah. I mean it’s so the first

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann part is like the

⏹️ ▶️ John first part is going to be. This is a bunch of your friends up on screen. Isn’t this fun? You can relate to it and the second video was like now your mom

⏹️ ▶️ John is on screen. It’s like it’s like Pixar levels of like knife to the heart. I go ahead to try

⏹️ ▶️ John to hate this video. It’s someone’s mom, so it was you know they get you

⏹️ ▶️ John they get you eventually they get you in the end you get tired out. It’s like all right fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean overall I was very happy with this keynote. I’m very happy with everything we got. I’m you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know some of the presentation parts of it were kind of a mess. I think it needed some editing, but other but like the actual meat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it what we actually got the new stuff we have it looks awesome. It is more than I expected.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got almost all the major themes I wanted you know we still don’t have new MacBook and that’s unfortunate,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but other than that, and we don’t have a real SiriKit audio API,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but we have a lot of good stuff I can now do with Siri. They got the watch stuff, they have all these cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enhancements to the Mac. We have Marzipan being a real thing. This is all awesome. I’m really happy with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this. And ultimately, I said last time, what I wanted was a sign of life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the reason the Mac has been so quiet recently is not that it’s dead, but that they’re just working

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on stuff that isn’t done yet. And we got that. That to me is the best. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really do seem like they have recommitted to the Mac as a first class platform

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s going to continue, as opposed to this horribly neglected afterthought that is kind of annoying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim Cook. This is great. I’m very, very happy about this. Mac wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John dead. It was just resting. You don’t get that reference, Casey. Don’t laugh. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann get it. It’s a tough crowd, you guys.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, thank you very much to our very special sponsors this week. We are sponsored by Audible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re hiring right here at all comp. Go to We are sponsored by these awesome Aftershocks,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Trex Air bone conduction headphones. Go to to see those. And sponsored

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by Microsoft with their Azure platform to make you learn all about building intelligent iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps at scale, visit slash iOS and Azure. Thank you so much to the sponsors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we will talk to you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann hold back guys, don’t hold back.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re into Twitter, you can

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-E-R-Q.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann It’s accidental. Accidental. They

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t mean to. Accidental. Accidental. Tech

⏹️ ▶️ John podcasts so

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann long. All right, so we got…

Neutral: Scooters

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann We got it we got something else we got to talk about. We got to talk about these scooters. These scooters man.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What is going on with these scooters? So if you’re not in San Jose or San Francisco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or what have you, apparently it’s a thing that the these scooter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ferries just fly over the cities and just deposit scooters everywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And for almost no money, you can sign up to drive slash ride

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash pilot, whatever, these scooters. Electric scooters. Electric scooters around the city. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I guess you, Marco and Tiff and Mike and a few others who were here before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John and I signed up for this and started driving these scooters around.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then yesterday, you got some for John and I to try. I forced you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do it. You forced John to do it. I needed encouragement. I like scooters, I was fine. Okay. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s totally how it went. That is not how that went. But anyway. But. I

⏹️ ▶️ John was no hesitation. I wasn’t like underscore like cautiously setting out saying goodbye to his wife like

⏹️ ▶️ John he’d never see her again.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well to be fair, these things are terrifying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well the thing is they are terrifying and they haul ass.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Those things move. This is like the progression that I went through and then watched

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as everyone I know went through the exact same progression is at first you start noticing that there are these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scooters everywhere and you Think well that’s kind of weird like isn’t that kind of littering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the whole world like and which and this apparently is a controversy In these towns cities, sorry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s California the town anyway So there’s a controversy there scooters all over the place littering up the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sidewalks and everything and so you first see them And then you might see a couple people whizzing by on them, and you’re like wow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what jerks jerks and then at some point you are bored at social policy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’re like hmm. There’s like three of them sitting right there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and in the middle of the sidewalk, like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not even really arranged any particular way. They’re just there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John like being in your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey house with kids.

⏹️ ▶️ John They just

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann drop it.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You are walk out of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco room, so you go on this progression from what are those to those people are jerks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to hmm. They’re right there. Maybe I should try one. I don’t have anything else to do and I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to worry angering the locals because I’m only here like three days a year they’re not going to remember me so let’s give

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a shot why not I got I got some time to kill how hard could it be on the Saturday before WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I signed up for the app and try to scooter and I went through this progression of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got it you’re like whoa whoa and then you push the accelerator really hard and you’re like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whoa holy shit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these things are fast though they really really are like if you are in town and obviously the people I’m looking at are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but if you’re ever in town, you should try it because they are disturbingly fast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you look at this progression of like, you know, unfamiliar, jerk, curious, trying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, and then you’re like, Oh my God, this is really fun. And then you start rationalizing like, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this has to be a good thing because this is fun. And I want to, I want to rationalize this as a good thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So let’s ignore all the problems of them littering up the sidewalk and start talking about like how this is going to change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mass transit. Right. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey know, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll have to rethink cities like, you know, all these like like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it was it was really are you forgot the

⏹️ ▶️ John final stage, which is when you pointed out to me when you were describing what it was like before I had tried it. What you said was a

⏹️ ▶️ John hundred percent true is that as soon as you do it, you realize immediately this should be illegal. Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John oh yeah, because there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John heavy and they are too fast for the sidewalk and they are too slow for the road and their wheels are

⏹️ ▶️ John too small for potholes and they like we need the law to catch up with these

⏹️ ▶️ John scooters because this is not how city should work like if you if you gave these

⏹️ ▶️ John to everybody in the city, it would be with the existing roads and structure like it would be mass chaos,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I just fear when people come whizzing bias like they’re just going to hit me like they’re heavy, they’re big and heavy

⏹️ ▶️ John and they go down with that fast like fifty miles an hour,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann but they go faster.

⏹️ ▶️ John I get into the mass people’s mv like these things are going to hurt you if you get hit in the back with them. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I am I am not a fan, but they’re so fun to ride. It definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feels try it try it before they become illegal yeah exactly like that. That’s why that’s why I made them try to I’m like look we’re going to come back here next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year. There’s no way these will still be legal next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got to try it now, because yeah there this is way too fun. They’re way too fast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s no way this is going to be a long term.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So check

⏹️ ▶️ John on to your seats. Everyone gets a free scooter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the other problem I have with it is that I think if I’d stayed on the scooter another five minutes, I would have gone from terrified

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to oh, I think I’ve got this to I am evil, Knievel and that

⏹️ ▶️ John would have been already got in the face. They cannot take a curb like you can’t get you can’t go from the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann curbs of

⏹️ ▶️ John the street, because the wheels are too small

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and the first ride,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the very first ride he took he ended it by trying to go off of like a six inch tall curb and just like bottom.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You can do it on a bicycle, but these things the wheel

⏹️ ▶️ John base is too long in the wheels are too small and yeah they’re not yeah. They need they need bigger wheels.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re getting anything to get a horse day to on your tell us about e bikes, because they were like how can you talk about this not mention e bikes?

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re going to change the world. We know we know Horace. We know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so try before they’re legal you heard it here first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks a lot everyone thank you Thank you.