Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

275: It's Difficult When You’re a Billionaire

Changed minds, old ears, giving in to Swift, and whether Elon Musk is a net positive.

Episode Description:

Sponsored by:

  • Linode: Get one of the fastest, most efficient SSD cloud servers starting at just $5/month. Use code atp2018 for a $20 credit.
  • Lambda School: Register now for iOS Development 101, a free introduction to iOS development.
  • AfterShokz: Headphones powered by bone-conduction technology. Get $30 off the weightless, wireless Trekz Air with code atp30.

MP3 Header

Transcribed using Flashlight (transcription + alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Teaser
  2. Quitter and changed minds
  3. How old are your ears?
  4. Follow-ear: Hearing protection
  5. Sponsor: Aftershokz (code atp30)
  6. Elon Musk bad for Tesla?
  7. Sponsor: Lambda School
  8. Who would buy Tesla?
  9. Sponsor: Linode (code atp2018)
  10. Marco wrote some Swift
  11. #askatp: Learn vim/emacs?
  12. #askatp: Google paranoia?
  13. #askatp: First lenses?
  14. Ending theme
  15. Neutral: Marco’s giant box 🖼️


⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know i’m i’m actually in a good mood but i’m a little bit sad i feel like i want something interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from from apple this june and i don’t know we’re going to get it and i’m scared and i’m scared we’ll talk about it next week but i just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanted to get that off my chest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco honestly i well yeah i guess we should save this topic for next week but i’m happy to talk about it now if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want like no no no we should say the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco we can do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a teaser we can do teaser as they say

⏹️ ▶️ John makes no teaser

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the teaser is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right now we want so badly to talk about what we expect from delivery to see in two weeks but we still don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything so we don’t know what to expect so it’s kind of interesting kind of a little bit maybe any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more anxious because it’s like so far it seems like what we’re getting is nothing but we know that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not the case which may be good

⏹️ ▶️ John but we have that conversation a couple of shows ago so everybody go learn something before next

⏹️ ▶️ John week

Quitter and changed minds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john kitt writes there was a question posed on the show by john

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is roughly what either of you ever configure one of your electronics to tell you to stop using it to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which marco you said no also marco two years ago you released an app called quitter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to tell to have your computer tell you to stop doing things so would you like to justify

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you have changed your mind or have nuance thoughts sometime in the last two years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco none of my electronics are twitter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair enough i don’t know this is something that’s been bothering me lately and i and i think john was john

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kitt that is was was saying this in jest like i don’t think he was trying to be a big jerk about it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but something that’s bothered me lately that i’ve only really started thinking about in the last year or two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is people aren’t allowed to change their minds and that seems funky

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to me like if i get more information about something i should be allowed to change my mind if i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think about something more i should be allowed to change my mind who’s

⏹️ ▶️ John stopping you from dancing your mind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t know it’s just i feel like like let’s say for the sake of discussion and i would never do this because it’s barbaric

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s say i decided that g i f is actually pronounced jeff it clearly isn’t everyone agrees

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it isn’t but let’s just say for the sake of discussion that i changed my mind and started calling it peanut butter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean started calling it giff that should theoretically be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ok i mean except for the fact that it’s clearly wrong but leaving that aside the fact that i changed my mind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should be ok but i feel like people would have a fit about it

⏹️ ▶️ John now your your friends would help you through this difficult time and bring you back to the correct pronunciation

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually that’s what friends do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that as prob i’m doing this antagonistic lly obviously that was probably a poor example but i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know like a take b m w s i was head over heel in love with my love with my b m w h

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when i first got it spoiler we’re going to talk about this later but it’s broken again who knew

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey sorry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i shouldn’t laugh like i laugh like the same way it’s funny like whenever you destroy computer by liquid like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only happen to want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me i shouldn’t be laughing because my friend is losing money but like you know it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still kind of funny at this point it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey funny it really is but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in any case um you know but i was head over heels in love with my bmw and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey five minutes a year that it works i do still love that car but i’ve moved

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on and and in light of more information i am not so sure that b m w s are for me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because it seems that a high performance german car is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not particularly cheap to maintain who to thunk it so shouldn’t i be allowed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to change my mind on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think i think the main sources of people having like you know strong defensive reactions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to people changing changing our minds if we say something is great we evangelize something we say b

⏹️ ▶️ Marco m w is great at some point then a listener goes out and buys a b m w then we later say we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t like it any more they’re like wait a minute you told me to join this team i joined this team

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and now you’re leaving it so like that’s kind of like a negative reaction there that’s the second one i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think is there’s a lot of people out there who something that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have said at some point they disagree with and a common defensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reaction to that is the home attack basically and trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forever after that discredit us so that they can ignore everything we’ve said they’re trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco invalidate our credibility is to say like well if you said this this one time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now you’re saying the opposite of that therefore you’re a hypocrite and everything else you said is invalid because you’re a hypocrite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and because the what they really want is to invalidate something else that we said that they disagree with or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they or that they like can’t bear to consider the possibility right that i think is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the two roots of this and you know people with a little bit more reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reactions to things and people with good social skills probably wouldn’t do this and in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case of this you know this quitter joke i know john kitt i’m positive he was doing this in jest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is kind of funny that i’d made an out called quitter and then two years later said i would never do something to make me stop me from my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco electronic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that is kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of funny so you know in this case i don’t think this is this is what this is but john kate wasn’t the only person to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tell me that many of the other people who told me that seemed like they weren’t doing it in just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so you know there there’s certainly a degree of um poor social skills that go along with a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of this and just people trying to be argumentative to discredit us because there was something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else that we said that that they didn’t want to consider that it might that it might be correct

⏹️ ▶️ John i took this question way more seriously than i thought you would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sorry i mean but you know to go back to the question like you know software on your computer and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a physical device that you’re trying to use less of our different things if i want to stop using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like my kindle which i think i still have i’m not sure i think i said all of them but one to john

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as packing material but i think i still am but like if i if i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had a problem where i thought i was using my kennel too much it’s fairly easy to just like be more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conscious of how much i’m using my kindle because i am only ever using it for a dedicated thing in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dedicated areas using you know things like that my computer i’m pretty much always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using my computer for something and it’s harder to exhibit that kind of self control when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can massively multi task on a computer and have fifty different aps open just like kind of background ing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and bouncing between them in like with a slight movement of your fingers you know and you’re between them for two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seconds and you’re going to a different one it’s i feel like it’s harder to exhibit that of kind of self control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with absent or running on your computer because the the like physical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actions and the time it takes to switch contacts on the computer to a different app are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much shorter than what it is in the physical world to switch like physical devices in your hand that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can just do it a heck of a lot more without even realizing how much time you’re burning on things so

⏹️ ▶️ John i think everybody who sent this in was joking and having you know

⏹️ ▶️ John having fun with us i would have brought up on the show if i had remembered it i think any of us would if we had remembered it showing

⏹️ ▶️ John that it is a good joke but technically speaking marco was not configuring one of his things

⏹️ ▶️ John to make him stop using it in fact he’s configuring his thing to make him use it more for

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing that he wants to like he wants to be productive and doesn’t want to be distracted from the using of the computer

⏹️ ▶️ John you know so don’t show me twitter let me you know keep xcode in the front or whatever so it is funny

⏹️ ▶️ John and we were brought up but it’s not actually applicable and so always answered that he wouldn’t configure one of his electronic

⏹️ ▶️ John devices to make him stop using this true if quitter instead shut down his whole mac it would be false please

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco quitter

⏹️ ▶️ John does it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it just

⏹️ ▶️ John quits specific applications that he doesn’t want to use so that he can continue to use his computer

⏹️ ▶️ John just with the other applications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet in fact today i’m pretty sure quitter made me finally get swift

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh we should talk about that but i will let it go for now

⏹️ ▶️ John of all the applications to to uh to flex your your swift muslins like the one would practically

⏹️ ▶️ John know you why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no no i didn’t know i’m not saying i didn’t write quitter and

⏹️ ▶️ John then how quitter you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ll get to it we’ll get there we’ll get there let’s we’ll save it for the show if you will when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quitter shuts down your computer the new version quitter quitter two point when it shuts down your computer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when when the computer starts back up will quitter say you have shut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey down your computer that’s all i want to know

⏹️ ▶️ John you shut down your computer due to lack of productivity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly this joke not land i was i was really proud of this oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i know i got the joke i thought it would be funny if i got it to make silence there to put crickets into later

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything that’s in the shows in the show right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John all right listen to me

⏹️ ▶️ John got a bell he should get a little cricket and like a little one of those little cricket

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco cages

⏹️ ▶️ John he can just hold it up to the microphone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i had a cricket at my office once and then it met an eye pad too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s right wasn’t it during a show yes so long ago god were

How old are your ears?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which speaking of john how old are yours

⏹️ ▶️ John this was one of the things that came up with the yani aural stuff which

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t want to revisit but this particular but let me revisit it yeah this

⏹️ ▶️ John this this is a particular youtube video is a testing how old your years are mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ John on the last show that when you get older you lose high frequency hearing and this

⏹️ ▶️ John youtube video purports to play a series of tones again probably

⏹️ ▶️ John dependent on your output devices and at a certain point they’ll be high enough that you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t hear them anymore or that your speaker can’t reproduce them and you’ll just think you can’t hear them one of

⏹️ ▶️ John those things will happen um so if you want to test your hearing and see how much high frequency

⏹️ ▶️ John hearing you’ve lost you can view the video and try it if you believe that it’s actually working if you don’t believe that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John working just go to your doctor and have them run the hearing test but normally i think they are they are kind to old people

⏹️ ▶️ John and they usually don’t play the super high pitched tones if they know that your age is above whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John threshold and it’s not just like you have perfect hearing then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you’re forty and you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John hearing sucks it slowly degrades as you get older so everybody should try this even you thirty year olds to think

⏹️ ▶️ John your hearing is still perfect give it a try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i did it i think about a year ago i didn’t do it at this time but i did about a year ago and i was like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right at where i was i was supposed to be with my age and tiff was like like one step ahead and one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing i noticed is that like on like the on my last frequency that i could hear i could hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it but it was noticeably quieter than the rest of them whereas she could hear it at full volume so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you don’t just stop hearing certain ones you act like i think it gets reduced before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you totally lose them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i did this a few minutes ago i had never tried this before and i ran the youtube video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the audio output was going through my usb pre two into my what one of these bar dynamics

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of some flavor i forget what they are off top of dt seven seventy thank you yes i could hear all of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the frequencies which stunned me because i had assumed given all the music i listen to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey often at not terribly safe volumes i had assumed i would have had some sort of hearing loss i agree with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you marco that he the later frequencies were definitely fainter by comparison but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i was quite surprised that i feel like i could hear every single one of them ah which which was good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i was very excited about that so the airpods have not yet ruined my years how about you john

⏹️ ▶️ John i just traded in my phone speakers and i was right where the age thing said i was but i don’t know if phone speakers

⏹️ ▶️ John are good i didn’t actually drive my headphones maybe i think i like margo said i think with headphones the key is that

⏹️ ▶️ John i would have more confidence that they could reproduce it and because they’re stuck right to your ears if the volume is decreased

⏹️ ▶️ John i would still be able to hear it it would just be fainter whereas just in the open air on your phone speaker

⏹️ ▶️ John like if it’s too faint it’s just going to get lost so i don’t know i don’t particularly trust this very well but i can say when

⏹️ ▶️ John i go to the doctor i always pass all the hearing test but that means nothing because like i said i think doctors are being nice to the know how

⏹️ ▶️ John old you are

Follow-ear: Hearing protection

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh i have whatever kind of follow means i’m yelling at casey about something sad in one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thick analogue was is it okay follow out yeah so speaking of the topic of hearing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think it was an analogue where somebody asked you and mike if you did anything to protect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your hearing like wearing your plugs or whatever else at concert

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey stuff like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you both basically are like nope don’t need to or whatever else i would like to pick this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bone with you oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey here we go i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather just to scare you into considering this so last summer as listeners might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco remember i think i talked about it on the show when it was happening i basically had had a really unlucky

⏹️ ▶️ Marco series of events that led to me having partial hearing loss for a few weeks in one year and while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both years were one was way worse than the other i had basically like a really bad ear infection followed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by i took a very very loud boat ride where i was like too close to the motor of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the boat i basically like significantly damaged my hearing for about three weeks and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this this was pretty bad until my ear canal finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drained itself out on the flight to w w d c last year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but anyway this during this time like i went to see an audiologist and and an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ear nose and throat doctor and a whole bunch of things just to see me to make sure i was okay and didn’t do permanent damage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything and i got i got to spend a few weeks experiencing the world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a temporary handicap of a sort like and you know i admit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is a very minor thing you know relative to things that could happen to people and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s lots of people who have way worse hearing issues or way worse other physical issues but it was really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interesting for me to experience this because i really developed an incredible appreciation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for how important my hearing is to me both in everyday life and in my career i lost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco perception of like where objects were because i couldn’t hear correctly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of both ears i would miss a lot of things that were going on in conversations or in events that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were happening on one side of me and you know again this is something that a lot of people go through usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re all older than me but ever since that time it was such a severe problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it scared the crap out of me and i because i really for most of the time i didn’t know whether it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco permanent or not it scared the crap out of me ever since then when i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know when my ears got better i said okay first of all thank goodness second of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all you know how like when you like have a problem and you know if you’re like sick or injured or something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people suddenly get religious and they’re like okay please deity up above whatever if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fix this for me i’ll be good i swear i’ll never do it again whatever that’s you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco minus the religious aspect that’s kind of how i got about hearing protection i’m like oh my god okay this is something that i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to always make sure i protect because i had a temporary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco view or i guess here of how it is when things go wrong

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i strongly urge you to consider carrying ear plugs with you in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your like daily backpack or travel backpack

⏹️ ▶️ John sorry there’s no room i guess only to get a fanny pack or something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco one such

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as such a good cortex oh my god why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey why did they not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mention like messenger bags anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like seriously ear plugs being available and being willing to put them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in when you were in a very loud situation i would strongly recommend it because earplugs cost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know basic ones cost basically nothing there there little foam things you can get on amazon or in any drug store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like five dollars for a big you know tub of them you know they’re not the greatest thing in the world but it’s better than nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is incredibly important to protect your hearing and and like you know the e and t doctor you know he was he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was kind of this like you know wonderfully grumpy old guy and and he was like you know your family

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not going to care your friends are not going to care only you will protect your hearing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no one else around you will care they won’t do things to protect your hearing if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have hearing damage they won’t understand and they won’t feel bad for you it’s totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to you and i and he was exactly right and it was like it kind of scared the crap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of me so yeah i highly suggest consider for you and for all the listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really consider hearing protection i was lucky enough to have only a temporary problem but even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the temporary problem was scary as hell and really messed up my life for a while thank goodness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was only temporary and i strongly suggest anybody who doesn’t have problems to keep it that way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so a couple things first of all only you can prevent forest fires and your own hearing problems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey second secondly when do you am asking honestly i hope this doesn’t sound argumentative when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you find yourself now putting in earplugs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one place obviously like i would i don’t really go to like concerts or anything but i will put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them in if i’m going to say like a very loud bar or like for some in some kind of event like if i’m at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a conference i’m going to be it’s like somewhere very loud that i have to go i’ll put them in then um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for um you know just very various like you know loud vehicles like like you know boats and stuff if my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco naves i’ll put them in then mostly i practice simply avoidance of loud places

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but yeah basically like i’m getting back in like a loud room like it’s the kind of thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it takes pretty much nothing to carry them with you in fact even you know if you do find yourself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in and out of places like that often where like you were like even having them in a bag you might not have your bag with you you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can just get those little foam ones and get two of them and put them in the little change pocket in your jeans and they squish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up all night and you don’t even know the there so you can kind of always have them with you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah but that’s my air pots pocket i’m just saying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also just you know be reasonable with your volume levels and your headphones that that’s another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big thing like if you wear headphones all day like i do you can get if you’re if you’re really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco irresponsible and play everything really loud you can permanently damage your hearing over not that long of a time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the fact is like you don’t need to be hearing things quite that loud one thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i like to do is get headphones that have pretty good passive isolation when i’m going to be in something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco loud like an airplane then you can keep the volume of the music lower and still hear it totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah and i think that’s where i need to make the most changes and improvement i wouldn’t say i listen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to music terribly loudly but i know enough to know that it’s louder than it probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should be and in the last actually a month or two i’ve been trying to do a better job of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not being so loud when i’m just listening to music as like background i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not distraction but like to drown to drown out the rest of the office for example you know and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and and i don’t need it to be as loud as it is and sometimes just because i enjoy what i’m listening

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to you know like a jam band like dave matthews but um but sometimes i just i just want to drown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it out and and so i’ve been working on being better about not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey making it as loud as as i would have in the past

⏹️ ▶️ John even mind that i s devices have a volume limiter on it i know because i set it on all my kids devices unbeknown to

⏹️ ▶️ John them because neither one of them know how to use computers or ios devices

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there

⏹️ ▶️ John is

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a

⏹️ ▶️ John volume limiter and you can set the max volume to be something less than a hundred percent volume and if

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t trust yourself to control the volume cap set your own again self hax

⏹️ ▶️ John uh no we’re not the devices aren’t preventing you from using them if you know you can’t be trusted

⏹️ ▶️ John not to put it on a hundred percent volume as you much as i creep up there like a song suddenly real light comes on you bring the volume

⏹️ ▶️ John up a notch and then another sunny relight comes on you bring it up another notch like there is there is sort of a tolerance pilled

⏹️ ▶️ John up effect to loud music especially if you actually are losing your hearing so i put the volume owner on listen

⏹️ ▶️ John to it at the volume level that you think is the loudest you ever want to listen to it and look at where the slider is and if that’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John seventy percent then set that to be the max volume and then you can sit there you know clicking

⏹️ ▶️ John the volume up on all you want and i’ll never go above seventy percent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by aftershocks and the weightless wireless tres

⏹️ ▶️ Marco air bone conduction headphones go to atp dot aftershocks dot com and use code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at p thirty for thirty dollars off the trek’s air bone conduction headphones work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by not putting anything in or on or around your ear but instead having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little transducers that rest next to your ears that send little tiny vibrations through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your cheekbones and produce sound you can hear through your inner ear canal and what’s great about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that you can still hear the entire world around you and all the sound it’s making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while you also hear your podcasts or the phone call that you’re taking over the tracks air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wireless headphones and the tracks air are pretty much weightless they only weigh one point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh six ounces you barely even notice that they’re on because they’re so lightweight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and comfortable and because they’re such a tiny little contact patch with your skin they’re not all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sweaty like most headphones are they don’t have these big pads that go around your ears or on top of your ears and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t set anything in your ears that could cause discomfort for people like me who just it kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hurts to have stuff in my ears so they’re very practical and very comfortable especially now in hot weather i was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using my tracks air earlier today actually just a few hours ago on a big outside dog walk because it’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hot today and i knew that any other headphones would get too sweaty and they’re also really nice as i wear a hat outside

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the summer time the headband just goes around the back of my head instead of going on top of my head so again yet another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason these are great for summer time weather and because you’re hearing the whole world around you when using bone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conduction headphones it makes it much safer and more practical when you’re doing things like walking or running outside

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or even if you’re just doing stuff around the house and you want to hear like if someone knocks on the door it’s an incredibly practical

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool kind of headphone and aftershocks makes the best ones to go to a t p dot aftershocks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dot com to see for yourself use code atp thirty to get thirty dollars off

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new weightless wireless trex air headphone

Elon Musk bad for Tesla?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once again at pdt aftershocks dot com and code at p thirty to get thirty dollars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off the trek’s air thank you so much to aftershocks for sponsoring the show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apparently there’s been some tesla related drama and i’m sorry for those

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of you who do not enjoy the neutral segments in the aftershow this is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apparently a big enough deal that we are escalating it and promoting it into the main show that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chapters are for if you really don’t like it i am not privy to what’s going on here so john

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can you give some sort of a brief summary maybe or just kind of tell us what what is you wanted to talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about

⏹️ ▶️ John so both tesla and elan musk appear in my you know twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John feed and other like channels and stuff like that on a pretty regular

⏹️ ▶️ John basis and this is a particular flare up

⏹️ ▶️ John i have to think partially fueled by like alan’s new girlfriend who’s apparently a famous person

⏹️ ▶️ John who i don’t know um but the nature of the stories always

⏹️ ▶️ John seems to be kind of the same and i think that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a healthy dynamic for any of us perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ John especially those of us who like test less products or who like the idea of

⏹️ ▶️ John electric cars a replacing internal combustion car sooner rather than

⏹️ ▶️ John later because i think i think tesla and neil and mosque and everything

⏹️ ▶️ John surrounding him and his businesses is unhealthy in a very

⏹️ ▶️ John predictable way and the particular news now is something about like you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John heard about an muskan and his employees and the their complaints about working conditions and injuries

⏹️ ▶️ John in the factories and they’re not productive and he doesn’t want them to unionize but he told the girlfriend

⏹️ ▶️ John he doesn’t he’s not stopping them from unionize and everyone else is not true except for his girlfriend and what you

⏹️ ▶️ John know like whatever and but i just wanted to talk about i guess this is

⏹️ ▶️ John more about the one s cause one angles we could talk about tesla and the financial situation they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in and how they’re they’re they’re valued so highly that probably no one wants to buy them but on the other

⏹️ ▶️ John hand they’re in such debt that it’s going to be too for them to keep their head above water but that’s all business stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John that’ll leave to someone else not that interested in and honestly i think i think it all work

⏹️ ▶️ John out in the end because if they really are overvalued but then they do start you know

⏹️ ▶️ John heading towards the train they won’t be overvalued anymore and someone will be able to buy them and scoop up their assets and who knows

⏹️ ▶️ John who knows what will happen there but elon must specifically i guess this kind of comes up in light of between is

⏹️ ▶️ John all about steve jobs recently that someone suggested we talk about but maybe we don’t have to go then but anyway elon

⏹️ ▶️ John musk as i don’t know what you would call him the face

⏹️ ▶️ John the personality the strong personality behind lots of companies and an internet personality

⏹️ ▶️ John in his own right and his particular style of running his business

⏹️ ▶️ John and how i think it is an unhealthy style it’s unhealthy for his companies

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s unhealthy for you and musk and it’s unhealthy ah in a

⏹️ ▶️ John boringly bad way no unintended and that is we’ve talked about before

⏹️ ▶️ John like if anyone has any criticism of anything

⏹️ ▶️ John that on musk is doing him personally his companies his products or anything like that both

⏹️ ▶️ John on musk the person and the personification of him in in the form of his companies

⏹️ ▶️ John always react to it in the same way which is massive blanket

⏹️ ▶️ John counterattack denial right we’ve seen it with tesla and the you know

⏹️ ▶️ John the crappy top gear battery tests we see it with like build problems production delays like

⏹️ ▶️ John even when tesla is in the right he always seems to and these companies

⏹️ ▶️ John always seem to overshoot and overdo it and say not only are we in the right but everybody who is against

⏹️ ▶️ John us is on conspiracy theory and you’re a bunch of dummy heads and the media tells lies

⏹️ ▶️ John about us all the time and like his recent fit was like i’m going to start my own media company that’s going to

⏹️ ▶️ John my own service is going to tell you which media companies are telling the truth or not right like just

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s just a massive defensive overreaction to everything which you would accept

⏹️ ▶️ John in like you know an individual private citizen or a teenager or a toddler but

⏹️ ▶️ John for someone who’s running all these big companies when he doesn’t personally find he’s a person he’s allowed to you know get mad

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever but when that comes through the companies like the company’s official party line is just

⏹️ ▶️ John as defensive and angry that’s bad and especially when the things when the

⏹️ ▶️ John when him or his company his products aren’t in the right so a lot of the uh

⏹️ ▶️ John the worker stuff and the unionized and the safety like there are problems with tussles factories

⏹️ ▶️ John and it always seems like he is much less interested in solving the problems than

⏹️ ▶️ John he is in telling you how the problems don’t exist and when people are getting injured on the job

⏹️ ▶️ John and when he really doesn’t want them to unionize and like he’s he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John on he’s on the bad side here on a lot of these issues and yet has

⏹️ ▶️ John the same complete sort of i’m a hundred percent on the right and everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John else is against me as a conspiracy theory like that’s not a healthy dynamic um and i think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hurting his companies and his products because yet tess’s had its struggles but the bomb

⏹️ ▶️ John line is that they they have made some good products and they made some really important advances it should be a happy success

⏹️ ▶️ John story with like oh they’re facing some struggles but they’re going to work through them but instead every time i see him talk

⏹️ ▶️ John or any time i hear anything about any of his companies it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and i understand he’s also

⏹️ ▶️ John like the only reason these companies exist in the first place and you know the whole attitude you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to be a jerk to get stuff done and this ties into a steve jobs angle but i just feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of jerks running companies steve jobs had a better handle on how to moderate

⏹️ ▶️ John his jerk ness to not be to take google’s old slogan to not be evil

⏹️ ▶️ John and to like even with the antenna gate stuff he was just as pissed as i’m sure the musk is about everything

⏹️ ▶️ John every time he feels like he is wronged or whatever but i feel like if steve jobs ran a factory were people

⏹️ ▶️ John being injured at a higher rate than the industry average and they were trying to unionize but he was doing everything he could to stop

⏹️ ▶️ John them he would recognize that he that he’s crossing a line and you know what i mean maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe i’m wrong i don’t know but either way i think it’s not it’s not good elan

⏹️ ▶️ John musk is no longer good for a lot of the companies that he’s involved in and

⏹️ ▶️ John this this whole flare up is just not making me go i’m not going to go on marco and say

⏹️ ▶️ John i must must be fired or i don’t know if we’re going to tribute that marco

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco but he doesn’t like the

⏹️ ▶️ John fire apple executives then i feel like he should that that elon should chill out

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit and and think more about the problems that

⏹️ ▶️ John that he’s facing and less about the people who are pointing out the problems like his whole thing is the investigative journalist doing

⏹️ ▶️ John a story and finding problems and he’s like i’m going to get those journalists if this last thing i’ll do is like that is the wrong

⏹️ ▶️ John reaction to someone doing an expose about like poor working conditions in your factory right don’t make it your

⏹️ ▶️ John life’s mission to the point where you’re founding new companies to to quote unquote rate a journalistic

⏹️ ▶️ John institutions by their credibility um i’m sure that will be a completely fair and

⏹️ ▶️ John uh you know unbiased endeavour having been created because you’re mad

⏹️ ▶️ John that some papers said bad things about your

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey factories anyway i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John done for a long time but i’m i’m just this is just sort of a a

⏹️ ▶️ John not a capstone but like i’ve reached a new point in my elon musk a not hatred

⏹️ ▶️ John by elon musk anti fandom that i am less and less a fan of

⏹️ ▶️ John the person and less and less a fan of the companies he runs to the degree that those companies

⏹️ ▶️ John act like him

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john you’re going to get so much email i’m so sorry for you

⏹️ ▶️ John i don’t think i will i don’t think the rabid tesla fans are here and anyway you know like it’s not again i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not against the company or the cars or whatever i just think he’s he’s doing a bad he’s doing a bad job he’s he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John doing bad things he’s a bad person doing bad things and he should shout

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit because he you know he has no reason for him to be this angry anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John i think the angle for you two is a do you care at all silly as

⏹️ ▶️ John marks got a tesla how much do you care about whatever the hell you must does and how it

⏹️ ▶️ John might affect tesla or do you just separate that and say i like the product don’t care about the man cause my convention

⏹️ ▶️ John is that they were rapidly approaching the point where there is some crossover between

⏹️ ▶️ John a bad habits of the man and resulting

⏹️ ▶️ John products in success of the company

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i like to keep those things separate partially because i really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoy this car it’s i absolutely love this car and the you know kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of weird and seemingly immature outbreaks of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ceo of the company that made it that that to me is mostly immaterial to my enjoyment of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the car the you know separately just like azo as as an occasional

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watcher of this space and and by the i don’t really follow it that closely i only hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the big themes that come through and stuff but like i don’t look at every detail so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again like before this before tonight before this recording i didn’t even know what tonight’s drama

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was i still am not that clear on it but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John i’m sure i missed

⏹️ ▶️ John the i don’t have a full picture of either i’m just listing a bunch of stuff that in recent memory there could be new stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John that i don’t even know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but here’s a thing so the way i see musk is he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a really really interesting crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco driven and in some ways immature a billionaire ceo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of some really cool stuff he makes crazy claims he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes crazy predictions and crazy promises but then he actually does a lot of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and when when he succeeds it’s really cool and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s really fun to be to be part of this you know fandom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of his companies in some way it’s really fun to to watch him do all this crazy stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because he has the resources and the drive to do some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really ambitious projects and almost everything he announces that he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trying to do is met with incredible scepticism you know much like a lot of you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know earlier apple stuff you know the stuff that he’s met with such incredible skepticism and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he has gotten so much unfair press coverage in the past

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like apple it’s quite understandable why he might be overly defensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of all press coverage it is negative even when there is some merit to it you know you can kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of see how how he developed that pattern to be defensive about press stuff also by the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i will say on the topic of unions they aren’t always beneficial there’s a lot of dysfunction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that comes with the unions and it’s really hard to deal with and you know it’s it’s a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hairy subject because in some ways they are still necessary because the government does not do enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a lot of ways unions are basically patching over rules the government should be serving but isn’t but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the same time they know that comes with a lot of real downsides for the people both in and out of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unions you know if you’ve ever known anybody who is who has either been forced to join a union or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been in a union that has not been run very well or is not that efficient or not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not that im looking out for its workers you will know that unions are really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a mixed bag and it really depends on the union so if he’s doing if you say things that are anti

⏹️ ▶️ Marco union are trying to be anti union that i don’t consider that in itself you know necessarily a bad thing because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not just saying things engineering he’s essentially union busting he is boring to do everything he can to

⏹️ ▶️ John prevent his workers from union zing which you know he can do but that’s the whole point of them union zing is they have they have

⏹️ ▶️ John no leverage they feel like they treated poorly when your workers feel like they’re being treated poorly they want to organize so they have some

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of baring leverage and he’s like you should you should never have that leverage will prevent i will do everything i can to prevent you having

⏹️ ▶️ John for my leverage pre please do not you know if you form a union you’ll all get fired right its union

⏹️ ▶️ John busting regardless of the benefits of unions and i would say that in this day and age the

⏹️ ▶️ John the scales have tipped so far away from labour and towards capital that it’s like we’re not even close

⏹️ ▶️ John to the danger of unions being too powerful and having all all effects yes of course there are real effects

⏹️ ▶️ John to having too much power but we’re so out of whack here but anyway setting aside unions

⏹️ ▶️ John as at representing capital ian musk saying he’s not making the argument you shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John want to be in unions he’s making the argument i will not let you be in unions don’t even try it

⏹️ ▶️ John like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John know his union busting before before the union even appears which i think is not a good look because it could

⏹️ ▶️ John be like you know the way you make a case for workers so they don’t have to organize

⏹️ ▶️ John is the same way all other industries make the case for workers they don’t have to organize like do you think i don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ John to bring us up but do you think for example apple employees are trying to unionize right now or

⏹️ ▶️ John do they feel like our job is pretty good and we’re getting taken care of so we don’t need to you know give dues to somebody

⏹️ ▶️ John and concentrate some power in an area that we don’t have a lot of control over like the workers that are tend to

⏹️ ▶️ John unionize or the ones that are being treated the worst by the industry right and

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why it’s usually never particularly good to you know send the men with

⏹️ ▶️ John rifles down to stop people from unions or whatever to pull things out from previous centuries

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well because i don’t know exactly you know i don’t know anything about what’s going on with him and unions i don’t i’d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather just talk in general terms the way i see musk is it’s really fun watching

⏹️ ▶️ Marco him develop all these crazy ideas and and he’s and he really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is pushing things in a lot of different ways that i don’t think would be pushed or nearly as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quickly or as soon as as if he wasn’t doing it his car is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco awesome really awesome and it did have a lot of bad press early on for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for bs reasons and so you know some defensiveness there is warranted i tried to pay too much attention

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to him because ultimately i do enjoy the car so much that i don’t want that spoiled

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by you know any weirdness with the person behind it but it’s nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have crazy product focused visionary visionary billionaires like that’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice we had that with steve jobs to a lot of degrees we have that with jeff bezos to some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco degree although jeff basis tends to do more boring things with with his with his drive but but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you know we do have that in him to some degree and we have that with a musk doing all these crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things and the result is a bunch of cool stuff and it’s really fun to watch and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’d rather just keep this compartmentalized in my mind as like here is the fun

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know the guy who runs all these fun companies that do fun stuff and that’s really fun to watch and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and sometimes actually really you know helps the world out in different ways and that’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool to watch you know again we had that with steve i miss that i miss that for a while and now we have it with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco elon musk so it’s kind of fun also though i think today’s elon musk is kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot like young steve jobs like before he was fired and right he when he was fired basically like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he is immature in a lot of ways and to some degree that does damage his companies but also to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some degree i think you kind of can’t separate him from the companies and if he is separated forcibly from these companies

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad things are likely to happen to the companies on the products as a result so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s it’s not a great situation to be in for the company’s name ultimately what would be better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is if he just matured a little bit and developed a little bit of you know balance in his

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in his moods and reactions and things like that but that might never happen or it might take a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of time i think we just have to kind of take the good the bad with the good at this point

⏹️ ▶️ John my question was like whether you thought it wasn’t that positive or non negative because i think at this point with tesla like

⏹️ ▶️ John with the model three fiasco the visionary part is here the products i want to make here’s

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the properties they should have you know to being being bold and making the whatever the newest

⏹️ ▶️ John tesla roadster and having the plan for the different cars and the different price points and doing all this stuff right

⏹️ ▶️ John but when it comes to running a car company a much more straightforward

⏹️ ▶️ John way to run that car company would have produced way more model threes with better production values

⏹️ ▶️ John would not have injured as many people would not be wasting time fighting its unionization because it’s very common

⏹️ ▶️ John in the auto industry and it’s not the end of the world and the power has shifted so much that unions are no longer absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ John bound bankrupting and destroying the companies that they uh that they belong to right so that i would say for

⏹️ ▶️ John test less specifically getting rid of him would be bad because he can’t just have a bunch of boring people

⏹️ ▶️ John again those people would never think to do the roads so they wouldn’t think to do any of these cars they don’t have the they don’t have the vision

⏹️ ▶️ John as the visionaries right but at a certain point the visionary takes down the whole company

⏹️ ▶️ John because you can have all the vision you want but if you just insist on things that everyone tells you aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John going to work and then they don’t work and then you don’t meet your your manufacturing targets and then you’re in mass of debt that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John good for the company either and that’s why i was asking you as an owner while you’re a leases you don’t care that much but like

⏹️ ▶️ John at a certain point i think you should start paying attention to this because if it means that there is never another modules

⏹️ ▶️ John or if it means that g gm buys them and makes a bunch of crap cars that’s bad for you as the person who wants to

⏹️ ▶️ John compartmentalize and separate this and more broadly of course like you know with all these billionaires like jobs

⏹️ ▶️ John or or bezos or you know sucker burger and these billionaires they’re always you know stopping on the little guy

⏹️ ▶️ John either accidently or on purpose some point on the chat so the apple store employees tried

⏹️ ▶️ John to unionize at when i was saying apple employes aren’t unionized i’m thinking of the the ones who have the high paying

⏹️ ▶️ John glitzy jobs in the spaceship who’s going to try to unionize the employees that have it the worst and who has it

⏹️ ▶️ John the worse than apple probably as site setting aside contractors and everything whose lid apple apple store

⏹️ ▶️ John employees whose retail is a tough gig and i can see why they might want to unionize so they can get

⏹️ ▶️ John better treatment but let there’s much less angry drive for the dow high paid

⏹️ ▶️ John software developer inside apple so and bezos you have the

⏹️ ▶️ John what do you call the the warehouse employees who have to pee in a cup because they’re afraid to leave their position

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re in these buildings without air conditioning for long hours like this there’s lots

⏹️ ▶️ John all sorts of issues and it’s difficult when you’re a billionaire i suppose to

⏹️ ▶️ John try to run a successful company and make these products that you have a vision to do and also not accidentally or in purpose

⏹️ ▶️ John stomp on the little guys and just i feel like elon is the the

⏹️ ▶️ John most inclined to gleefully stomp on the little guys to put them back in line

⏹️ ▶️ John to say you are a pion and i am a tight in the industry so shut up and take it

⏹️ ▶️ John and then to argue angrily to the press that there’s nothing wrong with our factories everybody’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fine our workers are perfectly happy they don’t want to unionize i’m not and if they

⏹️ ▶️ John did i wouldn’t stop them everything’s great here how are you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i mean ultimately like you know first of all like i don’t know if i don’t know if we are if we know whether

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the motive he has or the mood that he has or the characterization of this is like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is he keeping the people down or is it just kind of being sloppily run and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of haphazard and bad things are happening because it isn’t being properly managed like as an owner like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you kind of see a little bit of you know bad bad management and and sloppy running of things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you see things like the service side the service side is a mess i mean you know you have like long delays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for parts they they like you have weird systems to get them and and and reserve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things and they don’t call you when they come in and it isn’t just me like a lot of other owners face is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the service side you know these companies are moving fast they’re expanding fast they’re trying the they’re very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ambitious in what they’re trying to do in the talons they’re trying to do it and so it might not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be him being a jerk it might just be him mismanaging the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the growth and you know the company needing to like you know get it stuff together basically so i don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco characterize that but basically to answer your question of like how i feel as an owner about whether this should be run like a big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco boring car company we have enough big boring car companies we have lots of big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco boring car companies and they make big boring cars if i if i want that again in the future i know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where to go anywhere else

⏹️ ▶️ John but that wasn’t my question why the question wasn’t do you want them to be run like a boring car company i said are you worried

⏹️ ▶️ John that the car company that you like is not going to survive due to the mismanagement of a angry toddler

⏹️ ▶️ John who’s running it right like you want the products you want the good thing but i’m saying like at a certain point

⏹️ ▶️ John he is driving the ship into the ground like you great that it’s not boring like jam but

⏹️ ▶️ John if the company’s out of business or gets bought by jim that’s not good either like you want it to be on the middle

⏹️ ▶️ John path where you have the visionary who makes the products but also some minimum level of competence

⏹️ ▶️ John and financial success to ensure that there is another successor card to your model is that you can buy later

⏹️ ▶️ John because you like the products that’s what i’m getting at i’m not telling you you should be concerned i’m just wondering i’m just wondering

⏹️ ▶️ John if you are i mean maybe you’re not following enough of the stories to have that concern but i have that

⏹️ ▶️ John concern by proxy for you sometimes i wonder ah well you know will

⏹️ ▶️ John marco be able to lease two more test less three more test less or will he will he not

⏹️ ▶️ John have that opportunity because things are not going well over there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a valid concern but for basically test less entire existence

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about once a month there’s been a big story that they’re about to go out of business at some point you just got to say all right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they seem to not going out of business their cars were really good i can lease it for three years and be reasonably assured of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not taking a huge risk on that um you know buying it would be more of a risk especially if they if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they do go under then you have an issue with you know parts availability and stuff like that later down the road or warranty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco coverage um but you know leasing i think you’re you have a pretty low risk on that again like there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have been so many stories all the time that they are about to go out of business with their finances or mess

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever i just basically ignore them because they’re so frequent and they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever actually affect me in any meaningful way my car still works great the company is still in business

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s looking like one of my lease is up i will probably be able to get another one and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then by the time that lease is up maybe there will be other options if they go out of business that you know that don’t suck

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i think i’m okay for a while and i hope they survive they have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco survived every step of the way people say they’re about to die and they haven’t i again i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know the details of their finances but i do know that the coverage of their finances

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has has never actually panned out the way the stories say it will

⏹️ ▶️ John your buying a little bit a little bit too much of the hype of and it’s because he makes cool things that everyone likes

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why he’s got a fan club right but i think i think there is a there is a balance here that is that

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not quite striking between the good and the bad some of the bad is overblown in

⏹️ ▶️ John the press but a lot of the good is also overblown in the in the press and but mainly

⏹️ ▶️ John i think like he’s not helping right like there’s there’s i think there are better ways to navigate this like

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s he’s his own worst enemy

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oh sure

⏹️ ▶️ John he should like for all the successes that he’s had it’s not that hard to not screw

⏹️ ▶️ John it up this badly right like you know like make make good decisions make good products

⏹️ ▶️ John and then just don’t do the absolute worst thing you could possibly do like that’s all we’re asking like just

⏹️ ▶️ John do that and be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i agree but i don’t think we have that choice like it would be great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if this guy who we want all of his product vision stuff we want his

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drive we want his ideas we want his priorities we just don’t want his like you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crazy management or mismanagement of behavior and weird out you know outburst to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco press or whatever else we don’t want that well we don’t have that choice that isn’t the choice for making we have the choice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of either we have him running these companies or we don’t have him running these companies right and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if he’s out we could have a company that makes cars and that is better run

⏹️ ▶️ Marco presumably maybe but i think that would actually be worse for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco products and for the customers than what we have now it’d be great if we can have our kicking too if we can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have the same guy but have and be better at things but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we can’t i’d rather have this crazy lunatic running this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco company that makes really awesome stuff than to have some boring ceo running

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into the ground with boredom i can always buy a boring car i will always have that option

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i don’t need them to offer that option to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so my dad worked for a fortune one hundred company for something like thirty years and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he wasn’t a you know he wasn’t the bottom of the totem pole but he certainly wasn’t the top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either but by virtue of his particular role in the company he would rub shoulders with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know the people that were at the top of the totem pole with you know the ceo even and i remember

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there was a new ceo coming in this was many years ago now there’s a new ceo coming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in and i think maybe this individual had been there for a few months and my dad because of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know the circumstances of his job was starting to get to know this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey individual and i asked my dad you know hey is that is is the ceo like a big

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jerk or are they a decent person and dad just scoffed and didn’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know bat an eye and he said of course they’re a jerk you don’t get to be the ceo of a fortune one hundred company

⏹️ ▶️ Casey without being a big jerk like that’s just the way it works and i’m sure you could well actually be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least in one or two days on this but generally speaking the point i’m driving at is that you don’t get to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the head of a company that big by being a cuddly teddy bear you get to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the head of a company that big by being ruthless and by being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know a business person that that take that doesn’t take no for an answer you know all the things that trump

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thinks he is but isn’t and and so it is not surprising that that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that elon musk is kind of a self obsessed jerk but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s weird because i think john’s right that he does seem to take it a little too far

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i think that these businesses to some degree run on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or trade even on his personality more than their own actual

⏹️ ▶️ Casey achievements and to be clear tesla has achieved unbelievable things like if you had told me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ten years ago whatever before tess existed hey do you think some do you think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would be that that you know some new manufacturer will build cars not only cars but electric cars

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and they’ll act actually kind of take off and people will actually really like them do you think that would work and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i would laugh at you and say absolutely not there’s no possible way and here we are you know in twenty eighteen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s it’s happening it’s it’s their great cars generally speaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean obviously people love to bang the build quality drum but generally speaking their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great cars that came effectively out of nowhere in a time that that sort of thing doesn’t really happen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so how do you get there you get there by having a person like you on musk running the show

⏹️ ▶️ John on now that’s that’s the whole you have to be a jerk to be successful and you write to some degree it’s true that you

⏹️ ▶️ John have to be driven right and you have to probably be a workaholic like like besson and alan r and

⏹️ ▶️ John like steve jobs mostly wasn’t which is interesting because i don’t think you would label him to work off

⏹️ ▶️ John but anyway ah you don’t have to be that bad like there’s difference between being being driven and

⏹️ ▶️ John being assertive and actually having bad ideas that you follow through on it like

⏹️ ▶️ John saying you know i want to dominate and and hurt people and that i’m going to use

⏹️ ▶️ John my drive to do that and that’s bad that’s bad you don’t like that you do that’s not necessary to make

⏹️ ▶️ John good products right you can be driven but what you should be driven is driven to make good products

⏹️ ▶️ John driven to be successful and part of that is inspiring others to work hard for you certainly

⏹️ ▶️ John but part of that is also realizing when you are hurting the very company that you want to perform for you it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John counterproductive you know the beatings will continue until morale improves right that’s not a good strategy not

⏹️ ▶️ John only as is that not required for you to be successful it’s counterproductive you are successful

⏹️ ▶️ John despite that and jobs very much was successful despite some of his things but i think

⏹️ ▶️ John mostly because of the good things the good very far outweighed the bad and with the on musk i think the bad is at

⏹️ ▶️ John the point of outweighing the good at least as far as i’m concerned maybe not as far as success of the companies is

⏹️ ▶️ John concerned because you know like he’s nothing if not good at getting

⏹️ ▶️ John more money when he needs it while maintaining control but i

⏹️ ▶️ John certainly wouldn’t want to work for him many people say that but steve jobs but i also wouldn’t want anyone i

⏹️ ▶️ John know to work for him in a lower level position because it just sounds like not a good place to be

⏹️ ▶️ John whereas steve jobs i want to say if you want to work for steve jobs in a lower low position that’s actually probably safer than working

⏹️ ▶️ John closer to him in the org chart

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by lambda school for a free two week ios

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one o one development course go to lambda school dot com slash a t p lambda school

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trains people to be software engineers at no upfront cost their curriculum right now offers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer science data science web development and machine learning and their adding more courses soon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of paying tuition land of school students agree to pay back a percentage of their income

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after they’re employed and it’s pretty reasonable it’s seventeen per cent for only two years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco max and it only kicks in after year making more than fifty thousand dollars per year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s capped at thirty thousand dollars max tuitions no matter what you make you won’t pay more than thirty thousand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dollars if you don’t find a job or if you don’t reach that level of income you never pay a cent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can see for yourself with a free two week i s one o one development course to get started this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a hundred percent free no obligations it runs two weeks monday through thursday it covers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco live instruction practice problems with t as available to answer questions and small group discussions around the problems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this includes intro to swift basics of xcode and basics of ui kit see for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yourself at lambda school dot com slash at p

Who would buy Tesla?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so once again it’s a free two week ios one o one development course at lambda

⏹️ ▶️ Marco school dot com slash at p thanks to lambda school for sponsoring our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i’d like to take this on a small tangent i heard a fascinating conversation on the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recent episode of wheel bearings and you may know wheel bearings one of the hosts same well sami

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the one that set me up with al from and i was listening to this episode and they asked each other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey who is going to buy tesla if they do end up you know kind of starting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to circle the drain so i’m not saying it’s a given that they will eventually be bought but let’s just assume

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the sake of conversation that they are going to be bought who’s going to buy them and this kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of started because and now i’m talking out of my comfort zone they were saying that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey magna which is i guess a a parts supplier but they supply

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like i believe they supply not only parts but also they’ll do assembly as well we talked about this many

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like a year or two ago if i’m not mistaken anyways the folks on wheel bearings were talking about well maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey magna would do it because magna apparently has been hurting to kind of become a true to form manufacturer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but and i don’t have any particular opinion about that but who would buy tesla

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if they were going to be sold to a traditional manufacturer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i can tell you what wheel bearing said but before i do i’d be curious to hear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you guys think and i don’t know what my answer would be on this because yeah my initial thought is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something like a bmw or mercedes but i think both of them particularly b m w are way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too self righteous to think that they would need the help from tesla to do you know these sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of electric cars especially b m w with the i three and i ate but but i think b m w just tends

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to think too highly of themselves anyway so i don’t have a great answer for this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey except the one that wheelbarrow up me up with and and so i want to leave that aside for a minute

⏹️ ▶️ Casey marco if if you were where would you expect tesla to go and where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would you hope tesla to go if they did sell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all i don’t know anything about like the big conglomerates that own car companies and what their finances

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are like and everything and i have no idea who could or would buy them so that out of the way i can’t even tell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you which car brands are owned by which conglomerates like that that’s how it is i’m familiar with but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think if you look at what tesla has like what are their greatest assets to an acquirer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to me it comes down to i think three things the maturity of their electric

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drive train their massive capacity for battery technology and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery manufacturing and the supercharger network who would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most into having those things who needs those things most or who would benefit most from having those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things right now tesla is coming down with the model three into the more like you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upper mainstream you know range of the market like the premium sedan market but they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are still mostly in the very high end market competing with like the s class and porsha and stuff like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i would look at this and i would say maybe porsha because they’re about to you know launch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their own series of high end electric sedans and they could probably use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the supercharger network and the battery capacity and things like that it might be too late for them like in their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco development but i think they they might be interested again i don’t know who has the ability or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will to buy them but what tesla has is not mass market so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very much a high end premium thing and very much focused on electric only vehicles so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at what manufacturers want that or could you benefit from that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s where i would look so i would i would stay mostly with the high end brands maybe mercedes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because i have a feeling mercedes has lost a lot of market share to the modeles maybe somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like lexus if they wanted to get into it more but tita as has their own electric stuff going so probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not them um yes i would say probably porsha or mercedes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but again i don’t know anything about these companies

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now let me remind you that porsha is really you saying volkswagen does that change your tune at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all or do you stick are you sticking with that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think i’d stick with it because i do think that that you know again tests a high end brand selling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to high end customers there’s probably a lot of overlap between like you know likely tesla owners and likely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco porsche owners

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john what do you think

⏹️ ▶️ John well current valuations no one’s going to buy them because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the conform

⏹️ ▶️ John of course

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey for what

⏹️ ▶️ John you get right so they’d have to go way way down in price and i think i mean i also don’t know too much about the conglomerates

⏹️ ▶️ John although if i had to guess one of them i would guess not one of the ones that we know about you know someone mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ John geely and that would that would who owns volcano i think by the way and that might be a good guess but but really

⏹️ ▶️ John what i think is what i don’t know if it’s most likely but when i picture in my head how it might go down

⏹️ ▶️ John first of all i don’t i don’t actually picture them going under and getting bought i

⏹️ ▶️ John think they will find a way to to scrape by but if any but if if basically if one loses

⏹️ ▶️ John interest that’s what it comes down to he loses interest or he just decides to cut his losses and concentrate on his spaceships

⏹️ ▶️ John and tunnels and whatever the hell he’s doing ah the scenario i see is

⏹️ ▶️ John the rest of the auto industry gleefully letting tesla die and then picking over the scraps so someone gets a

⏹️ ▶️ John supercharger network someone buys the gigafactory like that the tesla as a going concern ceases

⏹️ ▶️ John to be and the rest of the auto industry just comes in like vultures and bid against each

⏹️ ▶️ John other for the assets you the giga factory is the thing that you might want the supercharger network is the thing

⏹️ ▶️ John you might want maybe some patents maybe some technology that’s used in the testes but all that would be harvested

⏹️ ▶️ John and used in quote other electric cars in the same way that toyota

⏹️ ▶️ John hybrid and electric systems are all over the entire industry and you don’t know it like you don’t think about it ah

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s licensing agreements with toda all over the place and you know a companies car companies doing deals with each other all

⏹️ ▶️ John time but they an to produce their car i don’t see any other car company that isn’t in need of

⏹️ ▶️ John a brand that doesn’t want to like name of buying test the whole sale and saying we’re going to continue to make and sell cars

⏹️ ▶️ John that are called test less i just see them all the assets being taken and disappearing

⏹️ ▶️ John into your volkswagens and your hondas and your toyotas and like the whole rest of the industry invisibly

⏹️ ▶️ John the customers base like tesla they were around another gun and some will say yeah but the tesla drive train is the thing

⏹️ ▶️ John is underlying the ball lie but no one will care because it’ll be like i think it’s a volkswagen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s an idea so tesla is is a pretty valuable brand it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well recognized it is well respected people know it’s a premium car and people think it’s cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so what about a company that wants a premium brand that people think is cool it doesn’t have one what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about somebody like kia

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s an interesting point

⏹️ ▶️ John although those that’s what i’m saying those big conglomerates have already gone on shopping spree that’s why they own volvo right that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why why tata bought what do they buy jaguar like those companies that need

⏹️ ▶️ John brands have mostly all bought them now and it’s not like there’s lots of new entrance in the car companies i’m not sure

⏹️ ▶️ John anybody wants the brand enough i mean even you know i forget what

⏹️ ▶️ John a conglomerate owns a key and hunting so maybe there’s one out there that’s still that still wants a name

⏹️ ▶️ John someone in tata has jag and land rover right so i feel like that shopping spree may be over but

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not following the industry to that degree but yeah that that would be why they would get the the thing is i think

⏹️ ▶️ John if that happened they might get the name and existing products but still to ends up buying the gigafactory

⏹️ ▶️ John and portions of buying the super charger network you know what i mean like they were still picking over the bones just that one of the bones is now also

⏹️ ▶️ John the name tesla and the logo and existing products

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they could form a little holding company with everything left over and call it oath or something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apparently honda owns kia i had no earthly idea that was the case

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah the conglomerates are hard to keep track of you know especially when it was all when

⏹️ ▶️ John people went on the shopping sprees for brands is to keep track of you know who owns who owns the brand that you thought

⏹️ ▶️ John used to be an independent company

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the wheel bearings guise they concluded that the most likely answer if not magna

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which kind of spurred the conversation for the two of them was actually volkswagen and you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to heavily paraphrase what they were saying the conversation was fascinating it’s definitely worth listening to and i’ll i’ll have lincoln

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show notes for you but they were saying that you know among other things you know volkswagen kun needs to win

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right now with dieselgate and all that and you know it certainly seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would be it would fit them probably better than than anyone else for a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lot of the reasons marco that you had described and so their vote was volkswagen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i i think that makes the most sense to me although your your honda kia idea was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey another great one which came in which came out of left field but i think that that was a really good call too

⏹️ ▶️ John but i think even volkswagen and all these companies they all want to see tesla die because it is the upstart is

⏹️ ▶️ John the company that embarrassed them that got to the market before they did and i think like in their heart of hearts every other

⏹️ ▶️ John company if there’s anybody there who cares about the brand they just want to see test let die and disappear

⏹️ ▶️ John and stop bothering them and we can go back to the way we liked it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by linode my favorite web host go to lino dot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco com slash at p to learn more and get a twenty dollar credit leonard is quite simply

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the webhost that i’ve been using for the longest that i have by far like the best and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i’ve slowly moved all my stuff to because of those things and there’s lots of reasons for this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so first of all it’s a great value their plans start at just five dollars a month that gets you a one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gig plan and all of their servers are fast because they all have intel zone five processors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re backed by a forty gigabit network and they all use native enterprise grade ssd

⏹️ ▶️ Marco storage so these are very fast servers you get a lot for your money and of course they have all sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of other things too so that you know one gig of ram base price and then they have everything going up from there and they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have all sorts of other special things like load bouncers backups built in stats

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called longview and they have an incredibly robust api so you can automate things like creating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resizing destroying instances setting up other things and they’ve even built their entire new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beta control panel against their their own api so they’re really beta testing it and really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making sure that the i can do as much as possible there’s so much at linode honestly it can’t all fit in one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adr but all i can tell you is that if you need web hosting if you need to host a v p s and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can do all sorts of stuff with your own server you can do docker containers encrypted disks v p ns

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hosting web apps hosting databases if you need this and if you’re an app developer or if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco host websites you probably do leonard is by far the best place to do it i have tried many of them over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the years believe me leonard is just simply my favorite it is the best value in its amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco performance check it out today at linode dot com slash at p that will get you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a twenty dollars credit and you can use that for four free months using that five dollar a month

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plan

Marco wrote some Swift

⏹️ ▶️ Marco check it out today once again led dot com slash at trust me the best web host in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the business thanks to linode for sponsoring our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ah so marco you have done something completely wild in bananas you’re writing swift

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now what’s going on there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i wrote swift

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today it’s better than the last time which i presume was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never the story is short and not that interesting i am writing a tiny little app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for myself that i do not intend to ever distribute that basically lets me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco start a walking workout on my phone that is that is entirely type of thing doesn’t involve the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all it’s just running on my phone that lets me basically draw like you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how like with strava and maps like that and as i discovered with workouts plus plus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have like a map view that shows all your workout routes on a map you can kind of see like all the different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trees you’ve gone down everything anything like that and you can like draw pictures on the map and everything i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saw the the screen for this for my data in workouts plus plus and i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco noticed that in the beach town where i went last summer i had like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco painted almost the whole map almost a whole street map of the town and i thought wouldn’t it be cool this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco summer to actually paint the whole street map with like with walking workouts but rego plus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plus displays all of your data forever in ever amen and so i wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one that only displayed like this year’s data and could restrict

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it by time and say alright just from just from this year forward to kind of like reset it every summer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t you just ask any store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do that i did and he sent me like the code for that map screen that i’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco referring to and you know and to get the health data and stuff so i basically you know he sent me the code and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco modified it for that screen to uh to basically be a single screen ap that again is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only for me i’m not distributing it and i decided and his coats all swift and i decided

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i really do have to learn swift like it’s it’s getting a little bit ridiculous how little i’m using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it for how much the tide has clearly shifted to it by this point like i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to learn it so i decided to write this entire app in swift cause it’s a self contained thing that does not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco include any any of my legacy code or depend on any legacy apps or anything like that so it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very simple very self contained and the whole app is me learning new stuff because i’ve never used healthkit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or map kit or core location to this degree either so this is a good a good time to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also learn swift because i’m going to be going slowly anyway and it’s a very small app you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s not much complexity to it at all there’s not even any kind of like data storage besides interacting with healthkit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s very very simple so i’ve made this a app and it’s almost done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s taken me like two days and it’s pretty much it it’s totally usable now and it just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has like some minor interface weirdness that i’m probably forgot to fix so yeah so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is i’ve written bits and pieces of swift before i have a few parts of overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are written in swift not a lot but just a few a few small components

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that’s that’s it really and this i would say writing this app as its own separate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing in this small problem domain it has finally i think pushed me over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edge of now i think i get swift

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there are parts of it i really like i still don’t like all of it but but i think i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get it enough now that i’m going to start writing more of it that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of my new code i am probably going to want to write and swift at least or at least

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until i discover why i should hate it but but right now like i’ve crossed over the point where like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay i understand enough of it to be productive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not as productive as i am in a language i actually know better but productive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough to be you know functional and because there are so many ego system reasons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why i really should learn it and i really should be adopting it most of the time instead of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this occasional thing i tinker with i think the time is right i need to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this i should do this and so i am doing this finally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a fleeting moment i thought you said ego system and i thought to myself well it is swift developer so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i guess that makes sense so what let’s let’s start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happy and then i’ll ask you the unhappy equivalent what what are you enjoying about it what do you like about it and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that can be broad strokes or it can be specific little things whatever whatever tickles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s it’s a little too early for me to say for sure i’d i’d like some just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the little like conciseness efficiency things like the you know it’s the stuff that from swift one point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that people that isn’t old news to everybody things like not having to declare

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain variables or not being less worried with function naming um having like the the dot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and an autocomplete syntax for imu values stuff like that no header files how about no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco header files you like at no i actually don’t like that i like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco header files i like having the separation of the public interface and the private implementation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i like having the like being able to you know read a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco header file of my own class and and have an idea what it does without having to look through all the coat i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually kind of like that and and the separation it provides and and the readability benefits it provides

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you should just rewatch that protocol oriented programming talk from like w w d c

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two or three years ago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah i mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as i get into you know better and more swift i do plan to do things like that i do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plan to you know use more the advanced features and things like that but i’m not to that point yet it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be probably going to be months before i’m skilled enough to even get the benefit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair enough what are you not liking a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot a lot of exco behavior is just slower and buckie now things like reporting errors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearing errors once you have fixed them a autocomplete often just doesn’t do what it’s supposed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do because it had an error fifteen minutes ago that i fixed fourteen minutes ago and auto complete hasn’t worked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco since then you know stuff like that clearly the tools are still you know immature and buggy and and to a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco degree that like what are we three or four years in now to a degree that i think is is getting inexcusable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the for the amount of time that we’re in now and and there are certain things about it that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are that are just poorly documented or where the documentation i find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is out of date because it’s from an earlier version of swift i don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i’m finally taking the time to learn this new language and i and it’s still so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco influx there are still basic things about it that should be solved by now that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco haven’t been i think top of my list to be a concurrency model that is going to be like the official

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one where is that why don’t we have that yet but you know for the most part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of my complaining about it is at this point is i just don’t know it enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i am still slow with it i am still having to look up tons of stuff having tons of reference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the points at which it interacts with objective ca can get a little bit messy i don’t love some of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but for the most part i like it okay some of the syntax i think is ugly but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know it’s it’s aesthetic preferences

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i am deeply surprised that you haven’t complained yet about optionals

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and optionality and and not being able to just send messages

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to nil pointers and objects and not have to worry twice or think twice about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it so when i when i was very very first writing swift code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the optional system and the fact that almost everything i was dealing with was an optional that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to be unwrapped or or question marked or things like that like that was a big pain in the butt it was also a big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pain in the butt back then that like there was a lot less syntactic nicety for some some commonly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used things there was a lot more panty buttery around things like you know like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the double where you need an int and having to explicitly cast things in certain ways that you didn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to and see so that you know some of that stuff is annoying but i’ve now that i’ve i’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco familiar with the optional system and things like that for this for long enough now and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like whenever there was an improvement like when i think it was last year when when guard was introduced whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was like i’ve seen these kind of like my peripheral vision like i pay attention to what people are talking about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything so even if i haven’t been writing swift i’ve been kind of watching swift from a distance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so now like one of the things that kind of clicked for me finally was now i’m i’m familiar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough and have enough experience with the optional system that i can now deal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it in a relatively productive way and in some ways i do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco find the the assurances it provides comforting in practice i think a lot of that is you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco theoretical gains not actual gains i’m kind of like some of your testing but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s also just like some some some of the syntactic or or language niceties around

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that things like guard and like if let make some of these things just a little bit easier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to deal with or a little bit easier to write so i’m dealing with the optional system i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i still think it is it’s it’s a lot of structure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and rules to avoid risks that i don’t think i really had very often in my code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to avoid problems that i really rarely ran into but i’m learning to deal with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well if only you and i had i don’t know maybe thirteen different channels with which you could instantly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey message me about these sorts of questions if you have them then i would be happy to help you so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i mean i’m i obviously have very strong opinions about what good swift looks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like in the right way to write swift and and even leaving aside my love affair with rx swift

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think that there there are very specific ways that one can write good swift and i can also tell you a whole

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bunch of ways where i think swift is very frustrating and you’ve nailed some of them you know even i go looking for how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do i do this and oftentimes i’m looking at like a swift two version of the answer and i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t help it grumble gosh knows the tooling it’s gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way better since i started a couple of years ago but it has still got a long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way to go but by and large i’ve really really really enjoyed my time with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey swift and and again there are things that are annoying but by and large i’ve really liked it and i think that over

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time it is quite likely that you would feel the same way and it certainly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds like things are starting to move in the right direction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah they they find i’m finally on the path were like okay i’m liking some of this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m not immediately tempted to just run back to what i know you know i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now on the path to using this much more frequently and and having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it become some sometime probably fairly soon having it become my default of what i use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the major problem to me still is that i’m so much slower in it because it’s so new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me but i’m at least now like i’m out of first gear like i’m finally like i’m finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting going like i’m on the right path so i can kind of feel the proficiency

⏹️ ▶️ Marco building and feel that happening and feel myself getting almost to the point where i can be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco productive the way like an average programmer would be not yet to that point maybe it may be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a few more weeks or months but also you know i just you know pragmatically speaking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as soon as spiff was announced and you could see apple you know putting all their all their weight behind it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i knew like even though federici says object to sees forever like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah that’s not i don’t i don’t buy that basically i think it’s only a matter of time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i might even be a matter of two weeks before there is a swift only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technology or framework that i want or need to use it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s already been like for the last you know what’s what’s have been out for three four years now it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco already been really cumbersome to be an addict sea land when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the entire community has shifted everything to swift every blog

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all example code all documentation tutorials conferences

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost everything has switched to swift for any kind of reference material or discussion material

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and almost all language development has stopped an objective sea like and and when swift came i would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say just to see that a lot worse with all the nullable y crap that they had to add to it to make interoperability better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the entire tide shifted so much and also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i know it’s only a matter of time before there’s some kind of swift only thing i want to use that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it it’s starting to become harder and harder to not use swift than it is to just finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sit down and learn it so i knew this time would come and you know three years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago when whenever it came out i said like at some point this will happen this this tide will shift in this way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i think that point has come

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m excited and truly you know you seem from everything i know of you you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seem the kind that would rather just kind of fumble through yourself and and figure it out generally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking but if you ever have questions or want my strong strongly held opinions

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about or hopefully loosely held but probably strongly held opinions about the right est way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to right swift then uh you know where to find me i am happy to talk your ear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off why don’t you quit your job and start a new career making instructional videos to teach me how to how to write with you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should think about that for sure

#askatp: Learn vim/emacs?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so let’s do some ask t p aaron robin robinson writes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how important is it to learn a command line text editor like them or emacs i’m currently a senior studying computer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey science and have almost exclusively used gooey text editors with ftp clients for remote work however

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i often hear older developers an older helpers on professors talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about using command line editors how often each of you find yourselves using using one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or the other in daily work and i’ll start i never

⏹️ ▶️ Casey learned them it never clicked for me i always thought it was bananas i understand that people love

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it that’s fine if it works for you that’s fine i i typically use the max i’m going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use one or the other that being said i almost never use max anymore

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is exceptionally rare that i do probably once a month at most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the rest of my time i’m in xcode or text made or visual studio code or any number

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of other you know goy tools john what you’re you’re probably a special case cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re doing also well you’re doing a lot of node now aren’t you so now i don’t know how you’re going to answer this i was going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey assume that you were all on the in the terminal non stop but now i don’t know where this is going

⏹️ ▶️ John to go you know i use bad it for all my stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey but i right right

⏹️ ▶️ John right the answer to this question though is if you are going to do server side programming in your career

⏹️ ▶️ John you should have the basic rudiments of a couple of command

⏹️ ▶️ John line editors probably vi you have to be able to get into the i use to edit a file and get out of it because

⏹️ ▶️ John if you do service ide development you may often find yourself on some remote machine

⏹️ ▶️ John in a shell at a shell prompt and the only installed editor is v i don’t be one of those people who wants to install

⏹️ ▶️ John like a max everywhere right um but that’s it i don’t think you need to learn vi or

⏹️ ▶️ John mac and have it be quote unquote your main editor if you want to fine go for it but if you don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ John that you won’t be called upon to that but servicio ramming you will find yourself on a remote machine and

⏹️ ▶️ John have to edit a file and not have access to your favorite editor so i learn the basics if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not doing service ide programming i don’t see any reason why you would need to use a command line editor

⏹️ ▶️ John for anything there’s so many good guides if that’s what you prefer use it if you want to use a command line use it but there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John no reason to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i would say it is worth learning the basics of v i you don’t have to become a power user of it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t have to learn all the crazy shortcuts but you should be able to open up a file perform basic editing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and save it out or quit without saving those are options like because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lots of things these days depend on service by components in some way if you ever set up a server for anything you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will need to open up text files for configuration changes and set up and things like that you will need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that at some point the earlier you can learn it the better and if you’re going to v i is the one to learn because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s always there max isn’t every server distribution of every linux ever v i is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there it’s also already on your mac if you ever need it there sometimes it’s useful to do things like if you’re if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing like you know pseudo at you know at sea hosts kind of thing then sometimes it’s useful to just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have that in the not to worry about like you know do i do it open up and you know textmate or sublime or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else we beat it and have it re save with pseudo it’s kind of complicated sometimes and it’s like sometimes it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just nice to have that be in the terminal and then of course as john said if you’re doing server development like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my entire first job at after school was writing c code n

⏹️ ▶️ Marco v i that was being built and run on a linux server that i was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco eating into from a windows pc first and then later from a mac like it was all remote development

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of jobs are still like that it’s the kind of skill where you know it’s it’s it’s like learning bash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s like learning the shell yes there are lots of jobs that and lots of things that you do with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers as a programmer that don’t need that skill but at some point you’re going to need that skill and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the earlier you get it the more useful it will be in your career

#askatp: Google paranoia?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i agree luther richardson rights do you think it’s paranoid to avoid google services due to their data

⏹️ ▶️ Casey collection marco has made his privacy stands clear i think says luther with overcast but i know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john has mentioned he uses google home which requires you to allow google to track track your location in my history

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i personally do my best to avoid google says luther but things like google assistant get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more tempting every year given apple’s lack of progress on siri i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i kind of am a middle of the road person on this i use google photos i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey love google photos i use google aps for my domain for email and that’s worked well for me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for probably a decade now or thereabouts i certainly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can understand one having qualms about this sort of thing but for me it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been ok i don’t use google as my search engine i use duck duck go which i’ve written a poster

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tube out on my website i don’t know i don’t think it’s necessary to avoid

⏹️ ▶️ Casey google but i wouldn’t argue you against somebody who does john

⏹️ ▶️ Casey answered first i believe mark at last time to marco how do you feel about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i took a fairly measured approach to this um you know like you i also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco read a few posts on your blog about dot dogo and use that as my surgeon and as a result um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there i don’t use gmail or a lot of google services that people do use frequently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or in large numbers but there was a good segment on upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this week about this almost almost exacting question basically and and i like jason’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco position on it which is basically like at some point you got you got to say like i’m just going to use whatever is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the best and the alternatives to google aren’t always the best at the things that google

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does now as a search engine duck duck go is ok

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the web it’s very powerful when you get into its cool like you know bang shortcuts the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exclamation point for and you know a for amazon or ebay or image for image and stuff like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that like all sorts of fun things that to me make doctor go the better overall choice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in addition to the privacy but do you know if i’m not finding what i’m looking for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a web search on it i will use the exclamation point g prefix to send it to google and check

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there and and often it will find it so i will use basically i’m willing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to use google when it’s the best and when it’s better enough than the competition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s that i’m willing to overlook the the creepiness that i that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i feel google has in most things and so again that isn’t in a lot of things they offer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it is you know for example if i’m looking for a business or for a place or for an address

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i will usually look at google maps first because it’s just better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the alternatives i usually have for looking up like business info and stuff like that heck i use ways

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for my driving directions which is owned by google so and again i didn’t use ways

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a long time we had a whole segment about it on the show i didn’t use it for a long time but eventually i was driving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in traffic so often that i found it worth while to trade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that amount of privacy and data for that service it provides so ultimately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you know with the tech giants there’s not that many tech giants and many services

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are owned by many services you basically don’t have a choice like if you want a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good computer you get a mac if you want a lot of services to work between a mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and an iphone you’re going to be using eye cloud right if you want fast delivery of stuff to your house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the u s you’re going to be using amazon if if you want to have if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to see like what your grandparents are posting and you want to send pictures to them you’re probably going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have to use facebook and with google if you want good driving directions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re going to be using google if you want good business search good web series you’re going to be using them if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to watch any videos ever ever again you’re probably going to be using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco youtube with his own by google like you can’t avoid any of these big companies really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in modern tech life you’re going to be interacting with some of them you’re going to be using some of their products

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heck i don’t like facebook that much but i still use instagram which is owned by facebook so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again like it’s it’s really hard to avoid anything completely i would just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say be conscious of what you do use from them make those decisions for yourself with a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pros and cons say alright am i willing to have a crappie worst service or to avoid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some massive part of the ego system in order to preserve this degree of my privacy and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco answer will sometimes be yes but will often be no and i think it’s you have to be okay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with having that be one of the outcomes

⏹️ ▶️ John the only thing i’d add is that a be like broadly speaking

⏹️ ▶️ John the benefits of these things outweigh the cost as in if you don’t use you know the question is should

⏹️ ▶️ John i be paranoid by well if you should be paranoid about google you should be paranoid about every company including apple not because

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re going to be mean or anything but because you know mistakes happen right every one of these companies have a tremendous amount

⏹️ ▶️ John of important information if you just don’t use them you’re protected from it but if you just don’t use any of them

⏹️ ▶️ John you are missing out on tremendous benefits you know of the products is the reason they’re as big as they are because

⏹️ ▶️ John their their products provide value right so i think it is paranoid

⏹️ ▶️ John to avoid google and all things that are like google as you will cut yourself off from society

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially right and that’s no good um so decide which ones were the benefit

⏹️ ▶️ John outweighs the cost as mark was talking about a right and you know pick the ones where you feel comfortable with the

⏹️ ▶️ John balance but to to mitigate this and say okay well then am i just giving in and just like okay well

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever i just won’t worry about this anymore ah there are things you can do

⏹️ ▶️ John to help with this most of them don’t have to do with you being super careful about how you think some of it is that like look at the

⏹️ ▶️ John settings look at the preferences be aware right i would also say that sticking with the

⏹️ ▶️ John big companies is probably for the most important things it probably has

⏹️ ▶️ John better net benefits like i trust google and apple and amazon to

⏹️ ▶️ John keep my data safe more than some other small company that i’ve never heard of right which probably

⏹️ ▶️ John just use esther bonin anyway um so there is some benefit to be on the big ones

⏹️ ▶️ John but the most important thing i think you can do to protect yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John long term is to keep this an issue like in our country i guess

⏹️ ▶️ John like to make it an issue that you’re willing to vote based on that you’re willing to ask people

⏹️ ▶️ John about that you’re willing to do what you can to

⏹️ ▶️ John to push these companies in the direction of being better about privacy

⏹️ ▶️ John and the collection not worse right that’s what you can do as a citizen essentially you’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no boycotting google’s not going to change their practices boycott a single person boycotting

⏹️ ▶️ John face but won’t change their practices ah but you know making it making it something that you’re aware

⏹️ ▶️ John of in your life and i guess i suppose you know if we’re trying to dethrone facebook socializing

⏹️ ▶️ John the idea that some companies go too far and are not good protectors of your data versus

⏹️ ▶️ John other companies that are make that a thing but don’t you can’t i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think you can opt out of the entire ecosystem and i don’t even think you can opt out of any

⏹️ ▶️ John one single player because as market pointed out how many people even know that instrum is owned by facebook like i’m boycotting

⏹️ ▶️ John facebook and they don’t even know they’re using inserm all the time so it’s very difficult to do that so i

⏹️ ▶️ John find the balance is right for you but i pretty strongly feel that the correct balance is to not use any of these companies

#askatp: First lenses?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right and peter johnson johnston writes i’m in the process of buying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my first muralist camera and i’m looking at the sony a sixty five hundred i know john has the a sixty three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hundred and was wondering which of the lenses he bought that he finds he uses the most specifically does the fifty millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at one point eight require too much backing up so let’s start with theirs as there’s a couple of follow ups but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s start with that john

⏹️ ▶️ John my favorite lens actually is the sony fifty millimeter at one point eight yes it does require backing

⏹️ ▶️ John up but i’m willing to deal with that because most of my favorite pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John have been taken with that lens mostly just because like the main benefit i

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like i’m getting from fancy cameras is the ability to take decent pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John in lower light because if you’re doing anything indoors the light is a lot lower than you think it is your eyes adjust you don’t realize exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John how low it is and the fancier the camera you get the more you can do that and this lens

⏹️ ▶️ John opens up the widest and is able to get enough light to get decent pictures in environments

⏹️ ▶️ John that no other cameron could get pictures in and when there’s plenty of light if you open up real wide you can get that

⏹️ ▶️ John sale up to field and all that good stuff that the iphone tries to fake so that is my favourite lens

⏹️ ▶️ John you do have to back up i still recommend you buy for this camera it’s really good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey finally as a beginner would you recommend a wide angle of portrait lens and a basic telephoto and and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey peter provides some specific details or a higher quality non telephoto zoom and a portrait again more details

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all focal lengths that he that he provided are thirty five or not thirty five millimeter equivalent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so i’m not the best person to answer this question but for what it’s worth when i got my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey microphone thirds camera i got a kit which i regret and then i got a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really really good prime and i forget exactly what the focal length is but it it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it it goes down to i think one six one four something like that it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it gets pretty wide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s somewhere on the fifty millimeter range like the effect of fifty millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey range yeah and i know its its nearest fifty millimeter and that was the only lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i had for probably a year or two and the second lens i bought was a telephoto

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that i think in thirty five millimeter is is one hundred to three hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something like that i forget exactly what it is but anyways so now i basically flip back and forth between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the telephoto and the prime and if i need to get something far away i use the telephoto if i can get close to it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i use the prime and that’s that and that has actually worked surprisingly well for me and i would encourage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you especially as a beginner not to buy all the lenses in the world and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just buy one or maybe two and see how that fits your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey life and then by more afterwards but that’s just my two cents you guys

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are probably much better to answer this question so let’s start with marco and then finish up with john

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t start with three lenses start with one and that one should be something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is either the fifty millimeter range equivalent or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something a little bit wider than you can use something more like a thirty five millimeter equivalent now on a crop sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco um you’re going to be looking a little bit wider than that maybe something in like the twenty eight or twenty four millimeter range

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like more general purpose use but ultimately you know what you know as as john said like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even on the crop sensory fifty millimeter lens it’s going to be a little bit more like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i like the medium portrait range at that point but you’re still going to get amazing photos and if you’re willing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and able to zoom with your feet it is totally worth it even though you won’t be able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to use it in every situation when you are able to use it you will love those pictures um photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco snob if you know actual photography snobs will almost definitely support the idea of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know just get one lens like one prime lens and zoom with your feet and learn how to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that ah that is a pretty common thing but i would just say you know from a practical standpoint as long as that lens is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know reasonably medium or wide ah that works totally fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for actual for like wider shots you have your iphone if you need it basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the equivalent thirty five milion equivalent of something like a twenty eight millimetre land so you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the you know the wide shot there if you need it and then for the really good portraits and low light you have your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice sony with you know a decent fifty millimeter ish lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think start there don’t get too caught up in trying to get a lot of lenses and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i have never had a zoom lens that i wasn’t disappointed by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh really i like the one i have it’s a thirty five to one hundred millimeters as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a micro four thirds and i think that it gets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco dull that’s seventy two hundred done yeah which is a pretty common

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s of two point eight which isn’t bad i can definitely tell the difference between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this and my prime which is i think i have one four but anyway i wouldn’t say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i dislike this one personally and generally speaking i think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perfectly fine for the situations where i would want to be far away

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so you know decline isn’t playing any organized sports at this point but let’s just say for the sake of discussion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he’s out on a soccer field or something like that you know that would be a perfect time for this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or maybe i’m across the beach you know i find myself using it or maybe across

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the backyard you know even even in the post stamp yard that i have occasionally i’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey find that that the telephone works really nicely for me for those sorts of things but just like marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said and you had said i think you were the first person to ever say to me zoom with your feet which i thought was the best turn

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of phrase and and yet i agree with you if you if you can get away with that the prime in whatever camera

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re looking at a prime is probably the best way to go now john what do you have to say

⏹️ ▶️ John so the it’s tough because the uh not

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no money mentioned in this post but the practical fact is to get

⏹️ ▶️ John any kind of zoom lens that is not garbage costs huge amounts of

⏹️ ▶️ John money right

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is huge and heavy

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah they’re big they’re heavy and they cost a lot of money but but that’s sad

⏹️ ▶️ John um if i say okay well then i’m not going to do that i’ll i’ll just have you know thirty five

⏹️ ▶️ John fifty and then a telephoto changing lenses is a pain i’m paranoid about getting crap inside

⏹️ ▶️ John the cameras because they don’t do anything to protect that area and so practically speaking what i

⏹️ ▶️ John did was bought a heinous expensive zum lane it’s not as good as motherless and the

⏹️ ▶️ John reason i find myself using this subline is versatility as casey was talking but

⏹️ ▶️ John if you can only bring one lens with you don’t want it to be the big heavy expensive zoom that takes crappy pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John but you can’t zoom with your feet when your kid is out there on the soccer field you can’t you can’t run out

⏹️ ▶️ John there and get a good picture of you just can’t so you need something that has a zoom range but you don’t want something

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s locked into that zoom ranges then you can’t take a picture of them when they come to the sideline to get oranges right

⏹️ ▶️ John and so you end up using a crappy zoom lens unless you’re constantly changing lens as you’re going to go nuts

⏹️ ▶️ John with it so this is not i don’t have a solution to this because what i have

⏹️ ▶️ John is i have i have a fifty i have a twenty eight and i have a handsome expensive not as good zoom

⏹️ ▶️ John and i use the fifty every chance i get but sometimes i actually have two zooms i have an even deeper zoom

⏹️ ▶️ John is even crappie sometimes you just have to think out the zoom one otherwise you see a speck in the

⏹️ ▶️ John distance and forget about the iphone is even blurry speck right that’s that’s the trouble

⏹️ ▶️ John with this like you will find yourself on the money pit of zoom lens is and try to avoid it but just like if you can get away

⏹️ ▶️ John with one you know i have one like two hundred millimeter or something that i use used for taking pictures around and the ocean

⏹️ ▶️ John waves and then i have my ridiculously expensive sixteen seventy that i used for sort of vacation

⏹️ ▶️ John photos but can only have one lens but i don’t want to use any one of those lenses i want to take pictures of everything with

⏹️ ▶️ John the fifty millimeter or even even the twenty eight ah but i have

⏹️ ▶️ John all of them so it’s not it’s not great news there’s no silver bullet i

⏹️ ▶️ John ideally never take pictures of things that are far away from you and just use your really nice prime lines all

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time we should also note that you can use one of many services i think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey marco you turn me on to lens rentals

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John dot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco com is that right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lens rental we’ll put a link in the shownotes i forget the exact url but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway lens rentals dot com

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey couldn’t remember who was plural or not but the point is you know just for me and my microphone thirds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cameras with these two lenses i’m talking about fifteen hundred dollars worth of lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is a ridiculous amount of money and of course this is where everyone well actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me about how expensive lenses could be but i’m just saying like taken in it of itself two lenses being fifteen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hundred dollars is a lot of money and what i did was especially for the well for both the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera and the prime and then again for the zoom i rented the camera body i thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i wanted and the prime i thought i wanted for a few days or a week or something like that and actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used them before i actually bought one additionally when i went for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the zoom there was a different one i rented first that was something like one hundred to three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hundred in in microphone thirds which means it’s two hundred to six hundred or something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in in thirty five millimeter and it turns out that was way too heavy a zoom

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for anything but going like across a football field and i’m glad that i rented it first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cause that lens was also like a thousand dollars or something like that if i had bought it so yeah i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wasted fifty bucks or something like that renting it but i also saved you know nine hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fifty dollars by not buying it so i can’t recommend enough be it for bodies or lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey check out lens rentals dot com or equivalent and see if you can just rent what it is you think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you want and try using it either on vacation or you know at a family gathering say memorial

⏹️ ▶️ Casey day your american that’s coming up you know something like that and see what what you end up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reaching for and if you rent six lenses but only ever use the prime that will also answer your question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all right thanks to our sponsors this week lined aftershocks and lambda school animals

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John now this show is over they didn’t even mean to begin because

⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John john did any research marco and casey wouldn’t let him because

⏹️ ▶️ John it was accident

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental but you can find the

⏹️ ▶️ John shoot at p f m and if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John twitter you could follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco c a s e y l i assess t that’s k c s m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a r c a r m ant marco arman

⏹️ ▶️ Marco s i r

⏹️ ▶️ John a c u siracusa

Neutral: Marco’s giant box

Chapter Neutral: Marco's giant box image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey marco put in the show notes a couple of days ago with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no other explanation the following marco drove something ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i have been waiting four

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John days to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hear this story please tell me marco what have you driven

⏹️ ▶️ John what can i guess first yes actually i don’t i don’t have a serious guess but i really hope it’s the winter mobile

⏹️ ▶️ John but it isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco if i ever get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a chance to draw the wider mobile i totally would that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John would that would be something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ridiculously that’s true that would be amazing a unfortunately this is a much less interesting story

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the weiner mobile everything would be a much less interesting story

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but anyway yeah so this past weekend we went camping with some friends

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John i got the spoil for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco me too sorry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me yeah we uh we rented rvs each family had an rv

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and you each had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your own yeah and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i assumed you were all piled into one of them i didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco realize there were two identical rented rvs these giant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco white houses with wheels i it’s been a long time since i’ve driven a vehicle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that large the only time i’ve driven actually the only time i’ve driven anything even close to that was when i drove

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a u haul when i was moving from columbus to pittsburgh and this was a thirty foot rv

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m pretty sure my u haul was not a thirty foot u haul and so it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite an experience driving a thirty foot box let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say thirty feet long twelve feet tall as i learned with one of the directions it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite something else to answer a roll call in the chat yes i did indeed use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco walkie talkies again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John they

⏹️ ▶️ John again proved useful you could have used the phones you weren’t in magical cell phone doesn’t work and you just

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to use the walking dogs cause they’re a good match for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rv ah oh actually in the state parks we were in cellphone no working

⏹️ ▶️ Marco land thank you very much i was unexpectedly offline for like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three days it’s like well i hope my servers are still up i guess i’ll find out in a few days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway driving something that big it was very much like i felt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way the top gear presenters always do when they’re like taking their crazy caravan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know vacations on the highway were like i took up the entire road

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was very very slow low on all the state routes i had to be driving on because i couldn’t use the parkways in new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco york because i was a truck all the state routes like i’m you know traffic is backing up behind me because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only one lane each direction and most of the time i was on was like a no passing zone because it was just too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco windy and everything so like all the traffic behind me i’m like struggling to just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reach the speed limit let alone drive the speed everyone else wants me to everyone’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know aggressively passing when they do get a chance you know hunting kind of swerving behind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me when they don’t in many ways it was mortifying to drive it because i was just like oh my god i’m so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sorry i’m so sorry to everyone behind me like i’m just i’m i’m just so sorry i had no idea what what this would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be and certainly you know first of all they’re very low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tech you know they’re powered by the uh it’s there was an f four fifty base which of course

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was white there was no technology to speak of in the car like it had a line in jack that was nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything else was like all manual like even like the like the headlights there were no automatic headlights even that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was manual like everything was manual um except for the transmission thank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco goodness but even like i’m pretty sure it had like three years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m i’m pretty sure they not have more than that like every speed i was going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like you know alternating between like very very harsh engine braking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then kicking really hard back into the higher gear of when i was declaring like it was it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite something when i would when i would go above about fifty miles an hour

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i would hit a patch of rough pavement it felt like it was hydroplaning like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was like oh i’m gliding over this now i have lost all control for a few seconds i hope i stay straight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was terrifying i learned that there is no option in ways to tell it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i am driving a large truck or commercial vehicle so ignore the new york parkway system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i also found there was no option in ways to tell it how tall you are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to avoid the ten foot five clearance bridge that’s one mile ahead

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh no you see the signs like warning ten foot five clearance three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco miles ahead and you’re like okay how tall is this vehicle they didn’t tell me that in the tutorial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco orientation thing something like looking around like seeing like is there label anywhere inside the cabin like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how tall this is i don’t know how all these things are and eventually i see on the sunvisor it’s twelve feet tall car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s going to be a problem but it’s three miles ahead surely there’ll be a road i can turn off sometime

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the next three miles then it’s two miles ahead and there still hasn’t been a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco road then it’s one mile ahead and there still hasn’t been a road after it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a half mile ahead i realize there’s not going to be a road where i can turn around and i just find the largest driveway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i can find and do a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John three point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey turn and back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and of course there’s no back up camera why would you put a back up camera on a thirty foot long truck

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that people who don’t drive these things regularly are driving every day that why would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you think to put a back of camera on it not to mention the fact that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like when i’m driving home i have the additional stress of like i am driving a vehicle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco full of my family’s output for the last few days i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better not hit any bumps like it’s it’s weird the whole concept of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our views is very odd when you if you think too much about it um

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but overall it was a good time it wasn’t a camping trip it was my first time ever being in an rv

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let alone driving one so it was it was parts of it were were pretty fun and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the weather was terrible for a lot of it so it was a little bit harsh but it was it was overall pretty fun

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trip but the driving part of it was terrifying and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco embarrassing in a lot of ways and i have more appreciation now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for both the crazy top year outings and for actual truck drivers who drive these things every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco day it was an eye opening experience for sure and quite quite an interesting and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco terrifying drive but that’s it that’s my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey story was this a cruise america that you got it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco from yes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was which was it the three person the five person or the seven

⏹️ ▶️ Marco person it was the large which is a thirty foot long one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why would you get one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that big well it was the only the only ones that seemed remotely big enough for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my family to not go nuts and kill each other or either the medium or the large and it was only a five foot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco length difference if i’m going to be driving a twenty five foot truck or thirty foot truck it’s not that different so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i went i went for the thirty and because i had a way nicer interior layout and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know just generally nicer

⏹️ ▶️ John so how do you feel about doing this versus driving your tesla with a tent so obviously the tesla

⏹️ ▶️ John is nicer to drive but then when you get there you got to sleep in a tent as it was it worth the trade off for the drive to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John to sleep essentially indoors this is a great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think overall probably because one thing is like during the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire first day this trip it rained it was really nice to basically have like a house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a small house but to have like a house that we could hang out in while it was pouring outside

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there was never a worry as it was pouring for two nights straight there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is never a worry like there is with tents that oh crap what if this leaks like i’m going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get no sleep tonight and all myself is going to get well like that was never concerned right so i have only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gone on two camping trips in my life the first one was a backpacking trip where we did sleep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in tents and it did rain all night and it sucked so this was way nicer than that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so and again like it was nice to have like a place to hang out it was nice to have a kitchen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though everything is weird and propane powered like how a propane powered fridge works

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i still don’t understand but it does somehow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall it was it was much nicer as a as a you know quote camping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing as as for me somebody who does not like the outdoors and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it really does not like tent camping at all you know it was nice for that however i think if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was you know just in the tesla i would just my myself to a hotel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now a long time ago i want to say three or four years ago i briefly flirted with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey idea of renting an rv this is this is actually many years ago who was pre kids i flirted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the idea of renting an rv to do some sort of trip with aaron i didn’t even have a destination i just thought it’d

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be fun to have the rv and i remember vividly looking at cruise america’s got off a website

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and looking at their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tutorial videos and watching these tutorial videos and realizing oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there is a lot more involved in this than i initially estimated i had initially estimated ignorantly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so that you just drive up to like a campground you plug two things in and suddenly everything’s perfect

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i think if you do like super fancy expensive rvs which are probably not rentable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that probably is the case an auto level and do all this magic things but it seemed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the time four plus years ago that it was pretty manual and pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey involved to level the thing to hook everything up to to get everything working appropriately and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then unhook everything and get back on the road how was that experience like i don’t necessarily need a blow by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blow of exactly what you did but was it reasonably straightforward like did they give you a three hour class before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you took the car away or how did that all work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well they asked if we had watched the intro video and i told him like well i watched the first five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco minutes and i was going to watch the rest to night when we got there of course we got there and there was no cell phone service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so i wonder if i didn’t watch it i mean there’s like a book and everything but anyway it it kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of helped that we we were only going for two nights you know there was like three days two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nights and the campground that we went to did not actually have any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hookups so we were self contained interesting okay and this has a number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of challenges like for instance you know you didn’t have infinite power and you know some of the nights it was pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cold so you couldn’t run the heater because there’s not enough power to run the heater all night when you don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an electric hookup but you know we find we just use more blankets and i got you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cuddled up with hops and it was fine so the whole situation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with like hooking up your input and output lines didn’t happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to us you know when when you rent it they give it to you full of water and full of propane

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know the rest is up to you if you if you want to and i was concerned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i would have to somehow empty my family’s output before i returned it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is one of those wonderful situations where i thought of our friend gray at some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point grey mentioned how he now looks at fees as simply

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prices this is what it costs if you want to do this thing and i love that and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how i think of like the parking tickets in my town because they’re only twenty five dollars and you don’t usually get them and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i figure for a cost of occasionally twenty five dollars i can park wherever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i want and never pay the stupid electronic meters to take forever and there’s always a big line for them so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when we were you know checking out the rv from the rental place they mentioned that there is a fifty dollar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fee if you don’t dump the output out of it before you return it and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as soon as i heard that i’m like done all right fifty sounds great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i will pay the fifty bucks to not have to do that so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s that’s what i did we didn’t have to deal with it easier that i did run into an issue where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i wasn’t conserving the water enough i took a shower and everything and on the third day i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did have to very much conserve water because i was running very low and the the tank for what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they call gray water rather than black black is your family’s output gray water is like the drains

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the shower and sink basically so it’s not you know dirty but not biohazard that tank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i had filled up by the end it wasn’t like overflowing or anything but like the light was saying like you should stop using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this now otherwise you know if you’re only going for like a night or two you probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t have to deal with that also in regards to leveling they didn’t have it wasn’t fancy enough harvey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have like auto leveling or anything like that so we just tried to park it on level ish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ground and everything was slightly slanted for two days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know it’s like living in pittsburgh like there’s no flat service in pittsburgh it was fun

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think this would be super fun terrible and yet delightful all it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i mean if you want to subject your family to it some time i recommend it it’s it’s an interesting experience especially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for somebody like you who likes cars and you seem to have some curiosity about you know the rv

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camping world anyway so i would suggest though like you know for an easier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time find a place that has at least you don’t have to use the hook ups

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you don’t need them but maybe find a place that has them in case you do need

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them well i’m glad you have this experience may be in part because i didn’t have to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco honestly like it does sound like you would probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey enjoy it so i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know next time you have like a reason to do it you should try it because renting it was super easy and you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they make it easy on you and if you don’t want to deal with some of the grosser parts you kind of don’t have to as long as you don’t travel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for

⏹️ ▶️ John too long

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco travel

⏹️ ▶️ John for too long is like three days three days margot had already used all the resources on this mobile

⏹️ ▶️ John plan that he rented and i already like well this plant is used up

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because lord knows i’m not going to have i’ve used all

⏹️ ▶️ John the water and my my grey water tank is full and i pooped all the poop and i’m not going to

⏹️ ▶️ John touch it so it’s like that’s how long it took you go on a week long trip it’s like i’m going to need two r

⏹️ ▶️ John v s once i use this one i swap to the next r v i just pay the fee for the person to come retrieve

⏹️ ▶️ John the other one