263: Old Potato
01 Mar 2018Casey’s AIM handle was so much worse than yours.
Episode Description:
- Follow-up:
- John is on NoMAD
- Casey adopts a new child
- AOL Instant Messenger handles
- Vulkan is coming to macOS
- Apple's dual-display patent
#asktiff#askatp- Max out ❤️ or 🍩? (via Jimmy Bosse)
- 👾 nostalgia (via Brian Middleton)
- 📷 for beginners (via Simon Tännler)
- Post-show: Playing for Fun
Guest-starring Tiffany Arment!
Sponsored by:
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Chapters
- Follow-up: NoMAD
- Casey’s new family member
- Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
- Old online handles
- Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP17)
- Vulkan coming to macOS
- MacBook DS patent 🖼️
- Ask T-I-F-F
- Sponsor: Casper (code atp100)
- #askatp: Hearts or stamina?
- #askatp: Arcade games
- #askatp: Learning photography
- Gas dinosaurs
- Ending theme
- Post-show: Playing for Fun 🖼️
Follow-up: NoMAD
⏹️ ▶️ John And meanwhile, Adam’s upstairs right now having nightmares about old potatoes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So as usual, we should start with some followup and I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey shouldn’t be excited about this one and only followup item. And I shouldn’t be excited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because it’s about boring big business stuff, but I’m actually kind of excited about this because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s some news about Nomad. So tell me about what Nomad is, what problem it’s supposed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to solve and whether or not it solves it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Last time we talked about this, it was like me complaining that I got a new computer at work and my new computer
⏹️ ▶️ John was on the Active Directory network and it was a Mac. And I was complaining about how it
⏹️ ▶️ John seemed like being on the Active Directory network was making lots of things about
⏹️ ▶️ John my Mac worse and I was sad about it. And then in follow-up on the subsequent shows,
⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of people sent us information about this thing called Nomad. They said, hey, you should try this. I think the
⏹️ ▶️ John story I was told by a couple of people in feedback was like, uh, Apple’s active directory support
⏹️ ▶️ John is not great in, in MacOS and it never really has been. And there was
⏹️ ▶️ John like a consulting wing of Apple that would like, come to your company and help you set
⏹️ ▶️ John up all your Macs for your, for your big, you know, enterprise or whatever. And the consulting
⏹️ ▶️ John company recognizing the Apple’s active directory stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t Active Directory stuff wasn’t that good, but also recognizing that they weren’t in a position
⏹️ ▶️ John to make it better, came up with a system
⏹️ ▶️ John just like sort of a series of like shell scripts and other little programs and stuff that would try to give you
⏹️ ▶️ John the effects of Active Directory without actually being Active Directory and that they would
⏹️ ▶️ John pitch that to their clients. And my recollection was that this is like an, this is an Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ John not, not like just a consultant, but like actually part of Apple going to help people.
⏹️ ▶️ John And this part of Apple, because it wasn’t empowered to change Mac OS was doing this other
⏹️ ▶️ John thing and giving it to clients. I don’t know if I’ve got that part right, but anyway, uh, we will put the link in the show notes. They have a
⏹️ ▶️ John dot menu domain, nomad dot
⏹️ ▶️ John which I think is not good. Um, you You can look at their website and
⏹️ ▶️ John read about what it does. There’s a blog post from another company that does
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac related enterprise stuff, that basically is saying, it gives you the experience of Active Directory without
⏹️ ▶️ John requiring, as they put it, a bind to AD. So you’re not constantly connected to Active Directory.
⏹️ ▶️ John And all the things that I thought were making my Mac slower, like me trying to wake it up from sleep and
⏹️ ▶️ John me getting to the point where I can enter my password unlock my computer or,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, random spinners before it will allow me to have network access and stuff like that. In theory, this thing would help.
⏹️ ▶️ John So, uh, I took that feedback. It’s idea. That sounds kind of neat, but it’s not like I have
⏹️ ▶️ John any control over when, when or if it’s going to happen. Uh, but I had a pleasant surprise a couple of weeks ago
⏹️ ▶️ John and my work started, uh, doing a trial of this and I asked if you want to sign up. I said
⏹️ ▶️ John yes. And like a day or two later, some active directory stuff disappeared from my
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac and this nomad stuff appeared and so I got to try it and I have to say
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m about a week in here. It feels like a lot of the things that seem stupidly slow
⏹️ ▶️ John are not stupidly slow anymore. That’s good. It is much faster for me to when I wake my
⏹️ ▶️ John computer up or whatever to get to the point where it lets me enter my password. The computer unlocks
⏹️ ▶️ John faster and I feel less like hangs for no reason. So I’m pretty happy
⏹️ ▶️ John with it so far. This also lets me know that my complaints about Touch ID
⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac were not related to Active Directory because now I’m not on Active Directory anymore and still Touch
⏹️ ▶️ John ID on my 2017 15-inch MacBook Pro. Like when I want to unlock my
⏹️ ▶️ John computer, sometimes the screen will say, enter your password or do Touch ID. And that’s what the screen
⏹️ ▶️ John says. But me repeatedly putting my finger on the Touch ID thing is
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann telling
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann that
⏹️ ▶️ John it is not reading my finger. Like it’s not like it’s failing. It just doesn’t really care my finger is there at all.
⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t have the little put your finger here arrow animation. It’s just completely blank
⏹️ ▶️ John and putting your finger there as many times as you want doesn’t work. When it does work, it’s great. But when it doesn’t work, it
⏹️ ▶️ John makes me sit there with my finger on the stupid thing and putting it up and down until I realize, oh, I have to type my password. Why do I have
⏹️ ▶️ John to type my password this time? Who knows? But anyway, I’m guessing it’s not Active Directory related.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s interesting. My work has been grumbly about Active Directory stuff. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so we’ve We’ve kicked around the idea of Nomad, but none of us really knew much about it. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will have to point my IT people to this episode at the beginning of it. So hi, Rory. This was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for you, even though you didn’t know it. But we’ll definitely have to check that out. That’s super cool. Because the advantage of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being in a place that’s only 500 or so people is that there’s an IT group
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of maybe five to ten people, which means I can actually somewhat influence this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey decision making insofar as if I put in a good word, you know, that’s that’s that’s a positive thing. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cool. No, I’m glad it’s working out. Well, any other follow up?
⏹️ ▶️ John Let me just put some print of real time follow up from the question of the chat room. Yes, I know that sometimes you have to
⏹️ ▶️ John actually press the touch ID button thingy to get it to try to register. I do that and it would just
⏹️ ▶️ John not register. Like so sometimes it just is not in the mood to read my finger. And I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John know why, despite the messages on the screen, to the contrary.
Casey’s new family member
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have some news. We have another new child in the house.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have adopted a child called Alexa.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not news. You told us that last week.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, did I tell you that it was forthcoming? Okay, I’d forgotten about that. So yeah, so Alexa’s here. Now, remind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, John, in your household, you are mostly on Google Home, is that right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I’ve got a regular Google Home, and I’ve got a mini Google Home, and then I have the HomePod that we talked about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, and then what’s going on in the Armand household? You guys are all in on Alexa, is that right? Oh yeah, she’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my girl. So this is the first time that I have ever had
⏹️ ▶️ Casey any sort of smart thing in my house. There’s a joke here. I see it. I don’t care.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s the first time I’ve ever had any sort of smart assistant in the house because Siri definitely does not count.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I had heard from other people talking about the lady in the tube that she has skills
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and things and that you can add stuff onto her. So I was vaguely familiar with the ecosystem
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I was trying to set up. So, you know, I, I got the lady in a tube. I set it up,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which was pretty straightforward. It’s like, you know, a Wemo light switch or something like that. You know, you connect to its
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wifi, it reads your wifi, then everything reconnects to the regular wifi and things happen, this has been
⏹️ ▶️ Casey old news to probably 95% of the people listening. Anyway, I added a few skills
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s cool. It works with Spotify, which is great. Doesn’t sound like utter garbage,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is surprising. I wouldn’t say it sounds great, but it is listenable. I would
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not plan to use it for music.
⏹️ ▶️ John got an Alexa and you’re playing music on it. That’s what you’re doing. You got an Alexa and you’re playing music on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. Well, no, no, no. I tried it just to see, and it got surprisingly loud, and it didn’t sound
⏹️ ▶️ Casey utterly terrible. Again, I would not say it sounds good.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann She knows a lot of animal facts. You should ask her about animals.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I tried to install a skill. I don’t remember what it was called. That’s basically like a quiz for Declan,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what animal makes this sound? And the one I found was clearly written by someone who does not use English
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as their first language and it was just very peculiar. So you don’t have to answer right now, but if you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have some sort of suggestions about like toddler-friendly games, which you guys may have gotten this too
⏹️ ▶️ Casey late, because Adam may have been too old at that point, but if you do have suggestions…
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Adam basically tells Alexa to play Timber… By Kesha? No,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment that right? Yeah, yeah, Pitbull, Kesha, yeah, he likes that. And, um, he also likes
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment fireball. He’s always like, Alexa, play fireball by Pitbull. So that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment how he communicates with Alexa. We’re not really playing animal games. We’ve passed that and
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment we’ve moved on
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann to the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment inappropriate hip hop stage. So it’s, it’s fine for us. But,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment but yeah, I mean, we had books and stuff for that, that you hit the little, the like the sound
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment animal buttons on the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey side, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like old school, um, like the ones that haunted Lex’s house that one time,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment if anyone remembers
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann that.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment That’s right! I had forgotten about that! The Dora the Explorer book that was haunting him.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the battery was going low and I was making a terrible noise. I remember
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment that. And he like tore apart half his house to find it and it ended up being a stupid book. But
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yeah, we mainly use it for weather. Adam will ask the weather in the morning.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment And it actually, talking to Alec the greatly helped him improve his pronunciation
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment because… Oh, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey interesting. He
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment would get frustrated that she wouldn’t understand him. So then he would have to articulate the word a little bit more.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment And I really think that talking to her has helped him develop his linguistical
⏹️ ▶️ John He’s more receptive to instruction than my children because my children have the same problem and I tell them you have to enunciate
⏹️ ▶️ John and it will understand you better. And they roll their eyes and then say, forget it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment So yeah, Adam really, really wanted to hear Fireball by Pitbull. So he made sure he got that right.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment it. Yeah. Does
⏹️ ▶️ John he learn that like that syntax play fireball by Pitbull? Like if he just says play fireball, I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John sure there’s other songs that are by fire. Like did you?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, no. Yeah, he’ll say he’ll say by Pitbull. And he also he found it really funny that when he
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment tells Alexa to say, he said, Alexa, play nothing, that it will
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment play a song called nothing.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John And he thinks that’s really funny, because
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment he told her to play nothing when then she goes and play something. So yeah, he asked the weather.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Like I said, He’s pretty good at animal facts and other basic facts, asking it and setting timers
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and stuff. But yeah. Oh, he’s been setting timers with it too, because every time we’re like, all right, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you have five minutes for this and he’ll set a timer. Oh, in the morning he comes downstairs by himself. He like gets up,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment gets dressed, brushes his teeth and comes downstairs and tells Alexa to turn on the lights. So
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment he’s pretty capable now. He’s like a little person. It’s amazing. Who’d have thunk it?
⏹️ ▶️ John Getting the weather is actually the most common use of Siri in my house, and it started
⏹️ ▶️ John many years ago with my daughter coming to my bedside table and using
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever device I have there to find out what the weather is so she could figure out what she wants to wear,
⏹️ ▶️ John although she… ostensibly it’s to find out what you’re supposed to wear, but regardless of what the weather is, she just wears
⏹️ ▶️ John clothing that is not appropriate for the weather, so I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann know what she’s doing. But anyway…
⏹️ ▶️ John Kids these days. is that you don’t need to unlock any of my devices
⏹️ ▶️ John to get the weather. You can hold down the little button and then say, what’s
⏹️ ▶️ John the weather? And it will give you the weather report without the device being unlocked. So that’s why she’s using it. She
⏹️ ▶️ John has her own devices now, but she still likes to come into my room and use my iPad or my iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John to get the weather report. So I was trying to think of how often does Siri
⏹️ ▶️ John get used? And I’m like, well, I use it as a reminder once every few weeks or something. Mostly we don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John use it, but then I realized it gets used every day to tell my daughter the weather.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And so it’s been interesting for us trying to, I mean, again, it’s been all of a day, but, you know, starting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to figure out how can this integrate into our lives because we didn’t exactly seek this out, right? It kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fell in our laps, just like my white cars. And so anyway, it just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of appeared, if you will. And we’re trying to figure out, well, where does this fit in our lives? Because this is not something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve like wanted. And And so far it seems like weather and timers have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been popular. We did enjoy doing a little bit of Spotify just because it’s nice to be able to call
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out across the room, you know, hey, you know, Lady in the Can play such and such by so and so.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, you can ask it to tell you stories or jokes.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, good to know. I did not know
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment that. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Adam, during Halloween, really enjoyed asking the Lady in the Can to tell him a scary
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment scary. But there they weren’t really scary. It was like, rrrrr, then the Old
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Potato, like it was really cheesy. It wasn’t like, oh, no, you have rotten vegetables.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment scary. Like…
⏹️ ▶️ John So Casey, where did you physically put it?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, um, well, actually Tiff may remember this, but, um…
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment It’s next to the plant on the ledge by the table in between the living room and the table.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Duh. That’s exactly… Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment exactly, totally,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John. So basically, our… If you walk in from the garage, you’re dumped directly in our kitchen, from the kitchen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the little breakfast nook, from the breakfast nook to like our main living or family room, whatever you want to call it. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s a little ledge in between the breakfast nook and the family room. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we just stuck it there for now on a piece of wood. And after all the HomePod stuff, I’m like, man,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey should I get a little doily for this or what? I don’t even know. But we put it there because, you know, that’s easy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey access, orally, verbally, whatever, to both the kitchen and the family room. And so without
⏹️ ▶️ Casey having to like scream, you know, most of the downstairs can, can hear or can, can speak to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey her and can hear her. And one of the striking things to me about this,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I think I intellectually knew, but it creeped me out to see, uh, on the lady app on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your phone, it actually shows you, Hey, here’s the things that you’ve said recently, which in and of itself, okay, I can kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey understand that, but that’s a little weird, but then you can listen to yourself making these requests,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is again, like understandable. My brain understands. Of course, it’s listening to you. That’s how it does
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things. But like, it’s also recording me, which is a little weird,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I still mostly understand it. But it’s saving that, which is a little
⏹️ ▶️ Casey weird, even though I do understand it. So that’s like a little bit funny. Um, and that did
⏹️ ▶️ Casey creep me, creep me out a little bit. The only skills I’ve installed are, uh, any list, which we spoke about an episode
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or two ago. Um, which I didn’t realize you actually have to flip a switch on the lists
⏹️ ▶️ Casey within any list in order to get them, uh, uh, lady in the tube enabled. And once
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I did that, it’s been working pretty well. Uh, we don’t have nest thermostats because we’re not cool like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but we have, you know, one of the men, it’s not Honeywell, but it’s like some other manufacturers, uh, rough
⏹️ ▶️ Casey equivalent. And so I’ve installed a skill for that. It’s the next CS skill and E X I A, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I haven’t actually tried it yet. I’ve installed an ERO skill that I haven’t tried. And the aforementioned garbage
⏹️ ▶️ Casey guests, the animal sound. So, I haven’t done much with it, but it is neat.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is more neat and more convenient than I thought it would be, but I wouldn’t say that it has changed my world quite
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet. And the one thing that did strike me as super world-changing, no sarcasm
⏹️ ▶️ Casey intended, is being able to just shout at the tube, you know, hey, play Timber
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by Pitbull, or whatever the case may be. In our case, it was actually play, you know, Five Little Ducks by Raffi.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment anyway… Yeah, you gotta update that. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, but being able to be synced with Spotify,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s really cool because I pay for Spotify anyway, and just having it being able to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey use Spotify, and then if I turn Spotify on on my phone, we can do the,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget the term for it, but the thing where you can control other Spotify clients. And so even the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hardware buttons on my phone, as long as the phone was left in kind of like Spotify mode, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hardware buttons on my phone can control the volume of the lady in the tube playing music,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is super cool. I’m not even entirely clear how that works, but it does. And so in that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sense, all this integration is super awesome. And it occurred to me, wow, I really wish that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this tube was a much better speaker. And I thought, well, then I should get a HomePod. And then I thought, well, no, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can’t use Spotify with it in the way I want. And then it occurred to me, I don’t know where I’ve been for the last two years,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but they They make an echo, what is it, a little dot or something like that, the echo dot, that I can plug
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into the stereo. Like, why have I not thought of this for two years? And I could just shout at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this little, you know, dot, echo dot or whatever it’s called, you know, Hey Lady in the Tube, play,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, Timber by Pitbull, and it would play on our home theater stereo, which is not a remarkably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey great stereo. In fact, it’s kind of crappy, but it’s the best stereo we have in the house. Why didn’t I do this a long time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago? Why do I do this to myself?
⏹️ ▶️ John So how does the other people in your house feel about your new tube?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron is kind of ambivalent about it. I don’t think she’s really embraced it as yet,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey partially because it’s been a day, partially because I don’t think she’s really seen me successfully add things to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the grocery list a few times. Or she’s not one to typically play music if I’m not around,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so usually I’m the family DJ. Declan is scared to talk to it,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not in the oh god, oh god way, but in the I’m bashful and shy way,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but he does enjoy the fact that we can talk to it and asks me to talk to it from time to time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Michaela is just sitting there as per expectations. So it’s so far, I wouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say it’s a rousing success, but I mean, I’m enjoying it more than I thought I would. And for the 17 or so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollars that it costs me to ship it here, it’s worth $17. I don’t know that I personally would pay like 100, 150, or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the case of the HomePod, $350 something like this,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey especially in the case of the HomePod where Siri is, in my personal opinion, kind of garbage. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s pretty cool. I like
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it. I mean, a few of the times that made me fall really in love with the Lady in
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment the Tube was when we have game nights and we all end up having like
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment song suggestion battles and we just keep interrupting each other’s songs to play other songs. And it just gets really fun
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment the back and forth, just yelling at Alexa to do different things. And in addition, you You can also order stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment on your friend’s Alexa’s and that gets pretty fun too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So yeah, I don’t know. It’s cool. I don’t see myself buying a HomePod, although it wouldn’t surprise me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if that’s on the birthday list. Like, it occurred to me that all this waffling I’m doing in front
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Erin is probably not helping her for my birthday shopping because my birthday’s in two weeks.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t know if she’s looking to buy me a HomePod, would never buy me a HomePod, has already
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bought me a HomePod. I don’t know what the plan is. brought you a child Casey. I have no argument
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here. I’m fine with that. But it just occurred to me that I that I need to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more clear about what my desires are for the home pod just in case that’s on her radar. But the thing is, I still
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know what I want to do about a home pod. I feel like it’s not something I want, except I do think having a really great speaker would be
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know if she listens to this podcast, which she won’t. So you should tell her separately. Maybe she can get you a dot because it’s cheaper
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’ll give you something to hook up to your good speakers.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is true. Now, john, How is your HomePod second week on?
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not seeing much use. I mean, I don’t think my kids know that they can ask it the weather. Or
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe my daughter just likes to use the stuff on my nightstand because it’s closer to her bedroom where
⏹️ ▶️ John she’s deciding what she’s going to wear. But yeah, not really getting much use. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John my Google Homes don’t get much use either. It’s just that they’re there when I need them to be there. That’s the key component of these
⏹️ ▶️ John things is I don’t use them that frequently. Certainly not daily, probably not even
⏹️ ▶️ John weekly. But in the moment when I have a desire and I’m too lazy to
⏹️ ▶️ John get up or too lazy to go get my phone or just want to know right now, the fact that I can yell something into the air and
⏹️ ▶️ John get satisfaction immediately is great. And so I feel like it’s well worth the money for
⏹️ ▶️ John these things just for those times. And of course, like I said, when my kids have friends over,
⏹️ ▶️ John they use them, you know, they become the house DJs and they use them to play whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John songs they want and laugh and do whatever they’re doing and interrupt each other’s songs and stuff like that. So it’s a
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a home entertainment device to keep
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment the children entertained as
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Alexa, play tub thumping by Chumbawamba. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John not that gargle song.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just listened to the Valentine’s top four just earlier today. I’m way behind on podcasts.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And yeah, that that gargle is bad. But tub thumping I can’t I cannot abide by that.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like their own personal, never gonna give you up. I’m never gonna give it
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Any other thoughts about ladies and canisters and tubes and cylinders and things of that nature? **Matt
⏹️ ▶️ John Stauffer** Tiff’s not in a cylinder, but do you want to explain why she’s here? Tiffany
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Well, Marco is sick. So they found another arm and replaced
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment him. So, hey, it’s me. Mark Hess And who are you? I’m Tiff.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I’m lossless. Wow. Sorry. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t have to assume that everyone who listens to the show knows who you are. You should introduce yourself.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Hi, I’m Tiffany Arment. You may know me from such podcasts as Top 4 or
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Playing for Fun with Relay FM’s Michael Hurley. I’m also sometimes on ATP
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and I’m married to Marco Arment who’s usually on ATP. Bam! There
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment you go.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment You can find me on the webs under Tiffany Arment.
⏹️ ▶️ John Alright, you skimmed over the part about Marco being sick, which is kind of vague.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment He’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John dying, and I think he could have been on the program, but he doesn’t feel well enough to do it, so.
⏹️ ▶️ John Here we are. Hey, screw you, man. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann God. Oh, God.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey I can’t talk, you jackass.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey He totally can talk, he’s perfectly fine. Oh, God.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Is somebody having fun with Terminal and
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey the Say command?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not that we’re complaining, it’s great to have Tiff, I’m just saying. Do you guys
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Casey Smarter Child? Sure.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, I remember that. I remember
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. I remember that. I remember that. I remember that. I remember that. I remember
⏹️ ▶️ John that. I remember that.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment smarter child. Remember talking to that bot?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment What? There was a bot smarter child in like the 90s that you would talk to.
⏹️ ▶️ John They I don’t think I ever did it. But now that you mentioned it as a 90s thing, I think I vaguely remember
⏹️ ▶️ John it, but I don’t think I did it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, we all did it. You know, after school chatting with smarter child on a messenger,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like all the cool kids do eating snacks, talking to smarter child, listening to no doubt.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you do. You know, a piece of 90s nostalgia just came back recently. I feel
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like every six months or so, maybe it’s every year, for some reason or another,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey somebody brings up ICQ, like, you know, the precursor, predecessor, or…
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not everyone does. Not
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment everyone listens to
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey this is old.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment No, explain. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know what you’re talking about. See, thank you, Tiff. So ICQ, the letters I, C, and Q, which is supposed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to, you know, be funny because it’s also the words, I seek you. It was like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first particularly popular online presence, like IM applications.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this was before, either before AOL Instant Messenger existed, or it was before it existed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to anyone outside of AOL. I don’t know exactly what the timeline was, but what was interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about ICQ, and I think it does still exist, but what was interesting about ICQ in its heyday, which was like mid nineties,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe late nineties, was that it had sequential user numbers, not unlike Twitter, actually.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, and so for whatever, and, and, and you actually use these user numbers. Like I believe that was the equivalent of a screen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey name. And so everyone knew their user numbers and to this day.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Welded into my brain or that’s probably not the right phrasing, but whatever, somewhere in my brain in a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey place that I cannot remove it is one, two, oh two, five, seven, two, and I will never forget that probably for the rest of my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey life. And I just, it’s funny because, you know, you bring up to, you know, this weird bit of nostalgia
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that just comes up out of nowhere. I really feel like every six months or so somebody brings up ICQ
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and or their ICQ number. I don’t know why, but it happens all the time.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment There’s a new TV show on Netflix called Everything Sucks and it’s very
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment 90s. They pretty much just like throw in all these 90s references just for people
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment our age to be like, whoa, remember that? And you know, it’s like little
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment teaser, 90s candy kind of show. And Marco when I just binge watched it because we’ve been sick. So
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it was pretty fun. I suggest it to anybody who is feeling some 90s love. Go
⏹️ ▶️ John for it. So you never had ICQ, Tiff?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment No, no, I started with AOL Instant Messenger.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think they were kind of contemporary. I had all these things, right? But I was
⏹️ ▶️ John not as into any of them to remember my ICQ number. It was a pretty big number too, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it was like anything else where I would, it was more fractured than it is now. Like you talk to
⏹️ ▶️ John some people on ICQ, some people on AIM, some people I talk to on the, you know, the universities,
⏹️ ▶️ John like real time communication thing, like just using the talk command
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment or University. Or
⏹️ ▶️ John using write to the terminal. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann sorry. I’m old, yes, I know. I’m just like,
⏹️ ▶️ John what? And the ICQ had this terribly drawn flower icon on the Mac. Oh yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was not a good looking icon by any stretch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco’s in the chat room, letting everyone know.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Is that your number, Marco?
⏹️ ▶️ John You all have big numbers too. I think my number was similar length. I just don’t remember what
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment our screen names are gone now right or do can you like look up stuff with people’s screen names because someone just
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment asked about what my screen name was and it’s pretty really teenagery
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and I don’t know if I should say it screen name for what aim
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann yeah no one can do anything weird with that can they aim aim
⏹️ ▶️ John just recently shut down I know because I got the message that said hey you’ve been signed on to aim every day since it existed
⏹️ ▶️ John but guess what it’s going away because I was still on an idiom.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Is it gone now?
⏹️ ▶️ John I got the message about it. Once I got the message, I deleted it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, well, I guess I still had mine. But I saved all the important chat messages from when Marco and I first met,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment because we’re super cute like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually have some I think I might have our first instant messenger conversation somewhere
⏹️ ▶️ Casey buried between Aaron and me. And every couple of years I stumble on it. So because we’re also super,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll go with cute, maybe creepy. I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Well, it’s like saving love letters, right? Right. No, I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hilarious listening or not listening but rereading this because it’s like After
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’ve been with any human being for a long time be it married or just you know partners or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You you as a couple will change like you as individuals and you as a couple will change and looking at like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this Totally like you know scuffing of the feet looking down at my toes Casey like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, you know, maybe we can talk later
⏹️ ▶️ John as opposed to today’s dynamic wall scaling ice crushing Casey,
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I’m picturing
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann overalls with a daisy hanging
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment out of the butt pocket, right? Well, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, that’s how it reads. That’s how these like chat these these chats between Aaron and I read it’s it’s hilarious and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey embarrassing and embarrassing. But nevertheless, it is adorable to go back to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment that.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, Marcos and I we were all like, Oh, well, what do you what’s your favorite meal? And
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment do you like thunderstorms? Yeah, it’s like…
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann You like peeing your colladas? Nice.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann So the generation before had to save their paper love letters. Your generation is saving your… AIM chat logs.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann …your AIM messages,
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John right?
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann But the current generation doesn’t have to save anything because it’ll be in the cloud forever. Lucky
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John bastards. They’ll want to expunge it
⏹️ ▶️ John right after they get divorced and they won’t be able to. Google searches will still turn it up because it’s feeding some training model in Google’s web.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann So, yeah, I think that’s a
⏹️ ▶️ John think that’s a good point. I think that’s a good point. I think that’s a good point. I think that’s a good point. I think that’s a good
⏹️ ▶️ John point. I think that’s a good point. I think that’s a good point. They’ll want to expunge it right after they get divorced and they won’t be able to. Google searches
⏹️ ▶️ John will still turn it up because it’s feeding some training model in Google’s
⏹️ ▶️ John giant machine learning cloud. All
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment right. So what was your AIM name, Casey? Let’s see what yours was.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I have mentioned this at some point in the past. So I was trying to think of a cool 90s AIM name. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know. I think it was 97-ish that I joined Instant Messenger, 96, 97, something like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I was trying to think of a cool name. I needed a cool name. And, uh, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was on the bus on the way home from high school. And, uh, in my, my friend, Ben was talking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about how he’s trying to learn to play bass and he had gotten a lot of blisters on his fingers and I thought, ah, got it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey you think that wasn’t going to be
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment taken? Your name was blister?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey Well, no,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, no, no. It gets better.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann It gets better.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Okay. It was even worse than that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. Robot Marco.
⏹️ ▶️ John I know what it is because I had your aim address.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s all coming back to me now.
⏹️ ▶️ John I had blocked it out, but now, in fact, I could probably pull you up on my buddy list right now if I could connect to the service.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey You probably could.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment sounds like a metal name, like, my name is Puss.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right? I’m saying it was such a great name.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Do you have like, did you have like a nose piercing with a safety pin?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment Yeah, totally.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s definitely me. No, I was like, you know, the dorkiest white boy in the world, which surprises
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no one. But nevertheless, it turns out that the word blister, B-L-I-S-T-E-R,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was taken. Who knew? So what do you do if blister is taken and you’re, I don’t know, 15, 16, 17 years old,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey however old I was at the time? B-L-I-S-T-A, of course.
⏹️ ▶️ John least you didn’t put a number on the end of
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann it. Yeah. That’s true.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Blista’s 69.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey Right.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Or Blista’s 6,732
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey and 4, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or whatever. Those were the worst.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Tiff, now that you’ve compelled me to share, it is now your turn.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment TG Okay, well, mine is really like, wafey, teenage. I’m like super
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment deep and write poetry. So mine was M-A-M-T-J-S,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment which stood for Music Always Makes the Journey Sweeter. JG Wow! LW
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Wow. TG And it was also the title of a painting that I liked by
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment this really weird artist. I believe his name was James Christensen. He was like some
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Mormon artist guy that a Mormon boy showed me
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and because I was super in love with him. And hey, hey, yeah, it was in high
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment school, dude. I didn’t even meet you yet, Robot Marco. Don’t be
⏹️ ▶️ John in love with Mormons.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, no, it was a whole scene. He he I don’t even think he’s straight. Like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment no, it was it was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. He was deep, though. He played the piano beautifully.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment We hung out on the jetty. You know, it’s those type of things. So yeah, music always makes the journey sweeter.
⏹️ ▶️ John Explain to Marco and Casey what a jetty is.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment They don’t know what a jetty is. It’s a big whole bunch of rocks that jut out into some water that kids go out on. And
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco might know now you’re indoctrinating him into Long Island culture.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment That’s true.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment He knows now. I don’t think he’s been on. He’s seen the rock jetties, but he hasn’t ventured out on them or gotten stuck on
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment the end when the high tide comes
⏹️ ▶️ John And until he slipped and given himself a terrible cut on the barnacles or something, and he hasn’t really arrived.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Exactly. Until you grab like, you know, a croissant from the local bakery and go out on the jetty
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and cuddle a little bit, you haven’t lived.
⏹️ ▶️ John So these, these, you know, you have these AIM names, right? But were they,
⏹️ ▶️ John did they span outside the service? Did they become an identity outside the service? Or is just the names that you picked
⏹️ ▶️ John for the thing? I think a lot of common thing in the early internet was to be
⏹️ ▶️ John forced to pick some name on a service with lots of people who haven’t picked named and to come up with something like these two things you’ve just
⏹️ ▶️ John described. These two things. Yeah. And to attach that and then so for the next service
⏹️ ▶️ John to use like the same name because for the same reason because like you know it won’t be taken and you become to be identified by
⏹️ ▶️ John it. That happened with either of these.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I had my name forever until I started using like my real name places. I was always
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment ma’am to just. Jared Polin, Ph.D.: Same
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Stephen
⏹️ ▶️ John Eckert, Ph.D.: Same here. Jared Polin, Ph.D.: Same here. Stephen Eckert, Ph.D.: At least no numbers, but I think that’s worse than
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment blister. This is not pronounceable. Kasey Pettit, Ph.D.: No, it’s not. It doesn’t even pronounce it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment It was a terrible decision made by a really
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Jared Polin,
⏹️ ▶️ John Ph.D.: Kasey, where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey else did you use blister? Stephen Eckert, Ph.D.: I think I actually, well, generally speaking, I used blister where I could and fell back
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Kasey Pettit, Ph.D.: I wish my name was blister.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey Jared
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Polin,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann Ph.D.: That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John such a gross name. Blister is not a, give me the origin again. like a bass player and he had got
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So no, no, no, no, no. So like my, my, so if you think I’m nerdy and my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey friend Ben was even nerdier than I am, or at the time anyway, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey he was learning to play bass and was lamenting on the school bus on the way home from school because we were, we lived like a couple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of houses down from each other that he was getting blisters all over his hands. And this was as I was pontificating about what I should
⏹️ ▶️ Casey call myself online. And that’s when I chose blister
⏹️ ▶️ John and the image in your mind, say blisters. That’s, that’s an image I want to associate myself
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann with. Why not? Because blisters are gross. Yes, but I was 17 years old. How about
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann abrasion? Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yes, you were 17. That’s way too old to be naming
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yourself blister. I mean, whatever it was, I was in high school. I know I was in high school that I’m sure of. So yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was probably told to be naming myself that. But remember, everyone, that this was a different era and that things were different
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I had a friend whose his name was gravy boat and I was so jealous. I’m like, that’s so good.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Ah, I should have. I thought I wish I
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann thought a gravy boat. That’s not better than your name.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Gravy boats. Amazing. Are you kidding? Such a good name.
⏹️ ▶️ John So my aim name I wish I can share because the service is now dead was JC
⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse. Why was it a Syracuse? Because
⏹️ ▶️ John both J Syracuse and Syracuse were taken
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment because DJ Syracuse was taken. You should have been DJ
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I’m I don’t know. I’ve been trying to teach my children, don’t pick usernames with numbers in them,
⏹️ ▶️ John because I feel like that’s not something our family does.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment We don’t do that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment in our family.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment It’s not appropriate.
⏹️ ▶️ John But beyond that, they’re not good at picking usernames. And it’s hard
⏹️ ▶️ John to do. I had to come up with my son’s PlayStation account name, and everything is taken, and I just
⏹️ ▶️ John wanted something that would not be embarrassing to anyone in the present or in the future,
⏹️ ▶️ John but be somehow meaningful and connected to something, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Hard, it’s hard to do. We spent a long time on that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, you know what? Having you two on the show reminds me that I need to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pick a bone with Long Islanders because for the longest time, once I realized that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I should just start embracing like my actual name, like I was old enough, because remember early internet, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey never used both your first and last name on the internet. did that because it was too scary, especially if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re a kid. Not for,
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, see, this is weird. You’re Yeah, that’s, I feel like that skipped my
⏹️ ▶️ John generation. Because I guess it was like before you were taught like, we at the point I was
⏹️ ▶️ John when I was doing it, they were teaching the younger kids not to do that. But no one was teaching us not to do that. So we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think this is one of the rare times I mean this genuinely that I remember that you are more than just a year or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two older than I, because generally speaking, you and I mean, there are some subtle differences between our
⏹️ ▶️ Casey upbringings and some bigger ones, but they’re not in my face very often. And this is one of those times
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where it’s very in my face. But anyways, when I realized that I should start purchasing domain
⏹️ ▶️ Casey names because they were less than like a gazillion dollars for dot com, you know, so things had started to level out
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit. For the longest time, I wanted to get list.com. And for the longest time, it was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey taken by Long Island Soda Systems. I remain to this day
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bitter about that because seems
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not only did they take my surname and my rightfully deserved domain name,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but because I wasn’t very organized, they eventually let it lapse and now some squatter has it and probably wants
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a billion dollars for
⏹️ ▶️ John it. You should have been you could have sniped it. I know, I know. You should have had a watch on that and picked it up as soon as it came available.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s hard to say that you have you know, anything that begins with Li you have to give to Long Island.
⏹️ ▶️ John tough luck on that one.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah. Reign supreme.
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Vulkan coming to macOS
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Save 15% off your first Fracture order with code ATP17. Make sure to
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⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Should we actually talk about tech stuff? Maria Hanson No, I like talking about Long Island.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Matt Stauffer
⏹️ ▶️ John Actually, there is one tech-related, game-related thing that I wanted to do a quick hit on
⏹️ ▶️ John because Tiff may actually have something to say about it. This is a story
⏹️ ▶️ John about Vulkan coming to the Mac, V-U-L-K-A-N, which
⏹️ ▶️ John is the latest version of a graphics API
⏹️ ▶️ John made by the same consortium that does OpenGL. All
⏹️ ▶️ John of our Macs have OpenGL, and there’s a mobile version of OpenGL ES
⏹️ ▶️ John on the iPhones and stuff. But it’s been years since Apple did anything
⏹️ ▶️ John with the OpenGL stack on the Mac. And it shows in
⏹️ ▶️ John the performance and features of OpenGL on the Mac, which tends to
⏹️ ▶️ John hamper the ability to either make Mac native games, which almost nobody does,
⏹️ ▶️ John or to port games from other platforms. Because if you make
⏹️ ▶️ John a game and it uses some gaming API that doesn’t exist on the Mac, It’s not going to work and you need some kind of shim layer
⏹️ ▶️ John to work with OpenGL, you know, converting from DirectX to OpenGL or something. Or if you try to write it portably in
⏹️ ▶️ John OpenGL for multiple platforms, OpenGL on the Mac is so old and so slow that you
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t, like, unless you use it as a, you know, lowest common denominator like, and most people don’t do that for games.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not good. So I think it has hurt gaming, gaming performance and game availability
⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac. And so, and of course, Apple is now doing the metal thing where it’s a lower level API
⏹️ ▶️ John a much more modern lower level API that is nevertheless exclusive to Apple platforms. It’s on iOS
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s on the Mac. And a lot of game engines have written to that. So the Unity Engine, some other,
⏹️ ▶️ John what’s the other big game engine? Tiff, you probably know from the opening screens of games. Unity and, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I was totally just gonna say that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, have support for Metal. And so that helps bring some games to the Mac. It’s like, okay, well, I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ John writing my game using OpenGL, I’m using an engine and the engine knows how to target these platforms. So that has helped a little bit.
⏹️ ▶️ John But now finally Vulcan is coming to the Mac, not from Apple, but from the same, I don’t know if it’s the same
⏹️ ▶️ John consortium. It’s an open source thing anyway, uh, to let people write games using
⏹️ ▶️ John the Vulcan API and then run them on the Mac and on windows and on wherever, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John with equal feature set. And, uh, there’s a couple of stories. We’ll put the links in the show. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John they tried porting a game and the Vulcan implementation, even though Vulcan is just like translating
⏹️ ▶️ John those calls down into metal for the game to run is like 50% faster than
⏹️ ▶️ John the old version, which would translate the calls down to the OpenGL stack. So I feel like this is
⏹️ ▶️ John yet another nail in the coffin of OpenGL on the Mac, which has basically been dead ever since Apple decided
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re never going to update it again. But having it there and having it be old and slow was just
⏹️ ▶️ John depressing. And like I didn’t, it was almost like I didn’t like it when games use the quote unquote native
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac API because it was slow. So now just all the game makers are taking this all out
⏹️ ▶️ John of Apple’s hands and I’m hoping what it will mean is better performance for games when running on
⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac. Like so you don’t have to reboot into Windows like running games in Steam or whatever on the Mac. And finally,
⏹️ ▶️ John everyone giving up on waiting for Apple to do anything gaming related on the Mac other than, you know, Metal.
⏹️ ▶️ John Because they changed the Windows server to Metal I think and Sierra or High Sierra, I forget when.
⏹️ ▶️ John But like, you know, OpenGL seems to be fading fast. I wish, I wish Apple instead had just said,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, well, never mind. We realized we should have kept updating OpenGL and making it faster and better, but it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John seem like they’re doing that. So I’m glad someone else is doing it for them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m excited for all the games I play on my Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John I like games. Do you reboot into Windows to play games or do you mostly just play them on Steam on your
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Mac? I play mine on Steam
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on Mac. I haven’t played any games on my Mac except Firewatch, which I almost forgot the name of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s how long it’s been. And that was very good. But that is the only time I’ve ever played a game on my Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, and you did do you did do boot camp because you had all those big complaints about how hard it was to get boot camp working. What game was that for that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, that was for the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Thank you. Thank you, Robot Marco
⏹️ ▶️ John inside. I’d totally forgotten that wasn’t do they just not have the Mac port out then? Or are they still
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, the Mac port wasn’t out. It literally came out like a week after we recorded or like a few days
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment after we recorded or it was coming out while I was playing the game, but I
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment needed the time to play the game before I could. I saw I couldn’t wait for the port to come out. And
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s another podcast you’re on occasionally. You didn’t you didn’t list it in your list of podcasts. If it’s also on the incomparable occasionally.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, and I’m also I’m a player on all the game show, the incomparable game
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment show stuff. Yeah. Boulder Dash. I mean, not Boulder Dash. Low definition.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, no, that’s a copyrighted trademarked game owned by some other company.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment No, we don’t play the Boulder Dash at all. I don’t I don’t even know what game that is. I never heard of it before
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment in my life. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, the lowest of lows and the highest of highs.
MacBook DS patent
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Uh, let’s talk about this weird patent that just came out, which is that really that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey weird in the grand scheme of things? So at Patently Apple, they noticed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that Apple has been granted a patent for a dual display MacBook or perhaps second generation iPad pro. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the gist of it is there’s a display that you look at and a display that you would ostensibly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey type on. And since Marco has done a little
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit of, um, kvetching and complaining about the modern keyboards, I think this is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, we should just call this the Marco patent. This is to make Marco happy, because clearly the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey answer to Marco’s problems is, if dust is a problem, Marco, we’ll just remove any
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mechanism by which dust could get in the keyboard because there is no into the keyboard. It’s all just glass. So you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey welcome, Marco, it’s all for you.
⏹️ ▶️ John I actually don’t think there’s that much to say about this. I put it in here mostly so we can refer people back to the original discussion
⏹️ ▶️ John of this, which was episode 193, the title that was the escape
⏹️ ▶️ John zone. It was when we first talked about the touch bar macro pros like right after they were announced.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the first thing that I think occurred to anybody, including us who looked at the touch bar MacBook Pro
⏹️ ▶️ John is, uh, okay, so they’ve got a little screen on top of the keyboard. Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John it seems kind of like a half measure. Uh, do we think that that eventually the whole
⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard will be a screen and we had like a long conversation about it. So go back to that episode if you want to hear it, but I don’t think we’re going to repeat it here.
⏹️ ▶️ John We took, we did all set all the things you’re going to expect us to say about the pluses and minuses of having anything that’s that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John entirely a screen to type on and then this story is like any other Apple patent
⏹️ ▶️ John story the idea of having an entirely screen keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ John is obvious to anybody including Apple and
⏹️ ▶️ John you mean they they did it on their iOS devices it’s they put a screen on their keyboard surely they had investigated
⏹️ ▶️ John that and like anything that Apple does they investigated and they patented especially the obvious ideas because that’s how
⏹️ ▶️ John our stupid patent system works. Um, so as with all patent things, this means nothing
⏹️ ▶️ John about any product that I will actually ship, but it’s a thing that’s been in everybody’s mind.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think people do want to touch screens on their computers. I think people, uh, don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ John the, uh, some people don’t like the keyboards as they exist now and we expect them to change. I don’t expect
⏹️ ▶️ John them to change in this direction, but this is just, you know, time delayed
⏹️ ▶️ John confirmation that yes, of course, Apple has considered having the whole keyboard be a screen, or having the whole
⏹️ ▶️ John thing to be a convertible snap apart thing with like an iPad and a screen thing or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John But until we hear more, we’ll just continue assuming that this is a thing that they investigated but are not going to produce.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I think they could sell something like this, not maybe as a Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John laptop, maybe as an iOS thing, but it doesn’t seem imminent to me. Let’s start baby
⏹️ ▶️ John steps. Let’s fix the mechanical keyboard reliability problems first And then after that, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John fix the Marco satisfaction index on the mechanical keyboard that is not reliable. Damn straight.
⏹️ ▶️ John On that topic, I have to say, I’ve been using my 2017 MacBook Pro at work with the keyboard,
⏹️ ▶️ John has not yet broken, because I rarely use the keyboard, so I’m not using it a lot, but it’s not yet broken. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m mostly a convert to the key switches. I still hate the touch bar, mostly
⏹️ ▶️ John because of the escape key, which I want to be a real key, but I like the actual keyboard.
⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously, the reliability part is still an issue.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, I agree with you, John, that, and now, granted, I’ve not used a Touch Bar Mac, but just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the key switches and whatnot, I adore them. And I have spent years talking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about how much the Magic Keyboards are my favorite keyboards ever, and in the last six months to a year, I have decided
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that no, my favorite keyboard ever, if you can put a humongous asterisk on the end,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the one that’s in the modern MacBook Pros and MacBooks. But that humongous asterisk is when
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s working. And as much as I want to say that Marco’s being a big baby and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that really it’s not a problem, no, really, it is a problem. Like, I’ve never needed to buy compressed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey air in 10 years, but as I’ve mentioned several times, I had to buy compressed air to get some, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey microscopic dust out of my MacBook keyboard. But man, when it’s working, it’s like my car, isn’t it? Like, when it’s working,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey gosh, I love that thing. But then occasionally it fails, and it makes me sad.
⏹️ ▶️ John But you don’t love the arrow keys, though. I mean, there’s still I have I have general hatred for laptop keyboards,
⏹️ ▶️ John but specifically the arrow keys in this it’s grim
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t like the arrow keys, but they don’t Drive me as nuts as I think they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey drive you and I think some of that is because I’ve been I’ve been using them using the inverted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey T for less time I know is that really true because my PC stuff always had an inverted T I think
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know the fact that you could feel for it because you could feel for the gaps So that the one the one is that we talked about the feeling for but the
⏹️ ▶️ John other thing I find that surprised me using the keyboard now for a long time, besides not being able to feel
⏹️ ▶️ John down there to find where the edges are, is that the up and down arrow keys, which it’s the same, essentially the
⏹️ ▶️ John same logical arrangement as it’s always been, a half size up and half size down crammed into a single key space,
⏹️ ▶️ John I find it more difficult to differentiate and find and select like the up versus the
⏹️ ▶️ John down and I don’t understand why. Maybe it’s because the travel is less, maybe it’s because there’s less of an indent or a space
⏹️ ▶️ John between them, but I find myself, I’ve found the correct key with my finger. I’m not looking, but I found
⏹️ ▶️ John the correct key, the up down key with my finger, and I have to like carefully navigate which one of the things I
⏹️ ▶️ John want to hit. Anyway, all that, as I’ve said for years and years, would be solved if they just put an actual full size inverted
⏹️ ▶️ John T and broke the symmetry of the outline of the keyboard, but not hold my breath on that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Tiff, are you using any sort of mobile rig or well, mobile computer computer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or are you on iPads when you’re running around?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I’m on iPads when I’m running around, but I want to say something about this virtual, the all-screen keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment patent thing. So like Apple does a lot of different patents for everything, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment So it’s not like super important that they did this one because they’re doing weird patents all the time for different
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment things that they think of, which is as they should a smart business move. But what if
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I didn’t read this article because I’m, you know, I’m not allowed to prepare for the show. You’re filling the Marco role.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John Yeah. I mean, you’re not allowed to read
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I asked him and he was like, no, no, no, you not gonna read it’s fine. But so I
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment use a kind of like a skin on the top of my keyboard now which has Photoshop shortcuts
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment on it and generally the shortcuts that I use the most I don’t need a keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment for but the ones that are kind of more obscure I do use it and it’s nice to have that reference without
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment having to look up a guide online to find out what is the shortcut for
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment a certain obscure tool that I’m just not used to using that I want to try out. But a a virtual keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment kind of well not virtual because it’s it’s you know there is a physical pad there but it would be
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment kind of an all screen digital keyboard and that like you can kind of have those layouts
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment um built in in the software you know you could just like swap them in and out and i think that would be kind of cool wouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann to tiff yeah
⏹️ ▶️ John no that’s that’s what i mean if you don’t remember what episode 193 but that’s kind of what we talked about like Like it
⏹️ ▶️ John was the original pitch for, uh, remember Steve jobs up on the iPhone. It’s like, okay, well you got
⏹️ ▶️ John a keyboard on your thing, but then like the keyboard is what the keyboard is. Uh, but what if you could change the keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ John based on the application you’re using? Like if you just make this the entire front of the phone, a screen
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s, you know, it was much more configurable. And they demoed that in the original iPhone. It’s like, look, when we, when we ask you to enter
⏹️ ▶️ John numbers, we’ll just change the whole keyboard to a numpad. And when you’re entering just letters, we can save room and
⏹️ ▶️ John not have, and we have like a key to toggle. You know, we all know this from using iOS, like we don’t have to have
⏹️ ▶️ John the numbers above the letters all the time taking up more room on the what was then the very small iPhone screen. We can just not have
⏹️ ▶️ John a number row at all. And then when you want to type numbers, hit this little thing in the corner, and then the whole keyboard changes the numbers. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like the most simple form of this. And what you’re talking about is like, when you have a screen, you could put anything you want there, it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John even have to look anything like a keyboard, it could be like this palette of buttons that you can hit
⏹️ ▶️ John to do Photoshop type things. Or Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment that’s, that’s, because like, it will keep the layout of a standard keyboard, because that’s the way people learn
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and are used to typing, right? Because like old people, right? Old people. Um, but like, you know, in
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment general, like that’s where it’s, it’s laid out that way for a reason, I guess. I don’t know. I
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment remember CGP gray talking about some sort of weirdo keyboard that he uses, but I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann again, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment why? Um, but I mean, looking at my keyboard right now with this floppy skin
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment on it that gets a whole bunch of crud underneath and it just, it’s all pasty. I don’t know,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it’s not a pretty solution. I mean, everything’s laid out similar, but it has the shortcuts written on top
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment of them. And it would be really nice to kind of have that transparency layer be in a digital format
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment instead, and then be able to switch back to see a normal keyboard instead of revealing the crud-covered keys that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment now live underneath this floppy skin.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s like the transitional model, because people who have been using a physical keyboard to use Photoshop for a long amount of time
⏹️ ▶️ John have muscle memory for where the key shortcuts are for like the commonly used ones, for example, right? And so
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you- the common ones but that i’m talking about like you know some of the obscure stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John no but i’m saying i’m saying like that’s that’s the reason why you display a virtual keyboard on the screen instead of something
⏹️ ▶️ John uh you know more sort of like uh thinking outside the box because you’re not limited by a physical keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ John anymore you can display anything you want down there it could be like a custom palette made for manipulating photoshop really quickly
⏹️ ▶️ John but because people are coming from a world where they’re using photoshop on pcs and things with regular keyboards
⏹️ ▶️ John they would probably want a layout that mimics a physical keyboard only with with, like you said, with the overlay on it or whatever. But
⏹️ ▶️ John eventually I have to think that all of us would die out and it would be like, well, why am I? Why am I showing you a picture
⏹️ ▶️ John of a physical keyboard down there when what you really want is, uh, you know, a custom control
⏹️ ▶️ John layout, uh, made specifically for using Photoshop most efficiently, perhaps that you
⏹️ ▶️ John could even rearrange them.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment So it just becomes another,
⏹️ ▶️ John it just becomes another piece of software in the same way that lets you rearrange all like your sidebars and your layers palette and all that other stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John and dock things to each other and customizing in that way. The bottom, the
⏹️ ▶️ John screen that is horizontal is just another version of the screen that is vertical and you should be able to lay it out the same way, even
⏹️ ▶️ John to the point where that could be the surface that you draw on with your pencil instead of drawing on your vertical screen on a laptop, which would never work.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment We’re just talking about the multi pad lifestyle here, right? Essentially, you just put two iPads next to each other
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann communicate.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Didn’t they have like a shuffle board app that you could like string them all up and you could throw the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment throw the pucks
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann right across
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John like four iPhones?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I think Margo and I set that up once. It was pretty sweet. But yeah, that’s basically what this is, right? But in a laptop?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, the patent doesn’t say, I mean, it’s just a patent, right? But you know, they think they try to cover all their bases, like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John could be a tablet, could be a personal computer, you know, they’re all vague about it, right? That’s the thing with patents.
⏹️ ▶️ John But there’s lots of possibilities here of, you know, applying second
⏹️ ▶️ John screen to a thing that Apple makes, whether it’s an iPad with a second screen that
⏹️ ▶️ John snaps onto it, or a laptop thing or both and you can snap it onto either one with little magnets or
⏹️ ▶️ John something. Or they just never do anything like this and we’ll see.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I don’t know, I can get behind this. I can get excited about it. This sounds kind of fun.
⏹️ ▶️ John So you don’t have hangups about typing on it? Because say it was on a laptop or something, the reason
⏹️ ▶️ John people usually buy physical keyboards for their iPads, there’s two reasons. One is they want
⏹️ ▶️ John to have something they can type on that’s not a screen. But the second one I feel like people forget is
⏹️ ▶️ John having a separate keyboard and iPad freeze up the entire iPad screen for screen purposes.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, I’m seeing the benefit in having the screen, the double screen space. So if you’re doing any kind of, even if you’re drawing
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment or typing or doing anything, the screen space in front of you is precious and you don’t want to take half that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment up with some keyboard that you’re typing on. But no, I type a lot on my
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment phone. I don’t think it really matters anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Is that working for you? Seriously? Yeah, I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I don’t type a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment But I don’t type a lot. I mean, I answer some emails, and even long emails,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I sit and I type them out on my phone because it’s easier being mobile with it than coming back and sitting
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment at my computer. I guess it’s a casey problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s one of the things we’ve discussed in the past of how some people really
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t like typing on Glass, but a whole generation of people is growing up typing on Glass, and they’re not gonna have the same hangups
⏹️ ▶️ John about it that some of us do.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, I feel more fine about
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Tiff’s young at heart.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I am. I’m the youngest right here right now, so, I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John come on.
⏹️ ▶️ John like a couple of months or something?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, I’m a millennial, man.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like to think about it. I don’t like to think about people born in the 80s. It’s gross.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Love you too, John. Oh, goodness. I don’t know about this patent.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I’d try anything. And just like you guys said, the idea of having another screen that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey modifiable to suit your needs or suit the needs of what’s going on right then does sound good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I never really Was it the 3ds that had the, the two screen setup? Is that right? No.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. Still does. Okay. I never really played one of those for more than like two minutes and it seemed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of silly in the two minutes I played it, but I’m sure that there were plenty of games where it actually made a lot of sense,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t know how to try it. I’m not great at typing on glass. I’m better on a full size iPad, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is funny because I don’t have a full size iPad in the house, but I mean, I, I’d give it a shot,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but man, I can’t imagine I would want, especially for a full on computer. I would enjoy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey having glass as my only input mechanism.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment What was that projection keyboard from like Microsoft?
⏹️ ▶️ John That never worked. It was from Sharper Image, I
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment think.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I know what you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John thinking. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment we went into a Microsoft store when we had Adam was young enough to be strapped to me, you know, like a like in a little
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment harness thing
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you wear when you wear your babies. And we were in a Microsoft store typing on some sort of like projected
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they still make those. That’s that I feel like is even worse than the screen ones because that never quite worked as well as
⏹️ ▶️ John even a screen keyboard would.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Well, yeah, and you couldn’t see it too well either. It wasn’t great.
Ask T-I-F-F
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, yeah. All right. So before we do ask ATP, we’re going to do a brief
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ask TIFF. And I’m assuming that this was mostly John’s work that I’m now taking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey credit for, but I will emcee and let John take over as soon as he sees it necessary.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tiff, what’s your favorite tech product right now?
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann These questions. I mean, come on, dudes. It’s a tech podcast. You must endure.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment questions all right my favorite tech product right now
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I would have to say is the switch because I’ve been playing it constantly so go switch
⏹️ ▶️ John you playing it handheld or on the TV mostly
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment TV with the pro controller good yeah the proper way
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann mm-hmm
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment but I put stickers on the pro controllers oh
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John fine you got the doggy stickers
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment well this the dog sticker is on the main the little joy con
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John set up holder thing. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment that make when it actually looks like a little dog. But on the back of all of our pro controllers, we each have kind
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment of like our own sticker. So each family member has their own controller.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I do still love my switch, but I almost I feel like I never have time to play it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the part of the problem I have with the switch is that I’ve only made it, I would guess like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a quarter of the way through Zelda, despite having had it for months now. And I feel like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so hard. And maybe this maybe it’s me, but it’s hard for me to pick it up play
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it for like 10 or 15 minutes put it back down and then remember what the crap I was working on the next day when I pick it up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey again like it Zelda is not the kind of game that you just pick up and play for 10 or 15 minutes and put
⏹️ ▶️ John it totally is you just haven’t here’s the thing it is that type of game especially this Zelda is a having him but the problem
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment not you don’t have to do anything it’s so
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah but the thing is like you haven’t the game hasn’t grabbed you like that’s the problem
⏹️ ▶️ John because if the game grabbed you the way it works like when you, you know, showing that you can dip into it,
⏹️ ▶️ John is yeah, you only have 15 minutes, so you dip into it and do a thing. But if the game has actually grabbed you and really gotten your attention,
⏹️ ▶️ John all the while you’re not playing, you’re thinking about, here’s what I’m gonna do the next time I play. I’m gonna go over here, I’m gonna do this thing, and
⏹️ ▶️ John then I’m gonna do that thing. And maybe I think about it, like you’re thinking about it, you’re thinking about this place, this virtual place,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, even when you’re not there. But if you don’t get grabbed in that way, when you come back, it’ll be like,
⏹️ ▶️ John okay, reboot everything. Where the hell was I in this game? Because you haven’t been thinking about it since then.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s not I don’t think it’s that the game doesn’t allow you to play in short spurts. It’s just that it hasn’t really got its hooks into you. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John just not connecting with you or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, because when I when I was very into Odyssey, I could sit down and play Odyssey
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment for like 10 minutes, get one moon and then shut it off. You know, like I would
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment be like, oh, I’m just gonna do this real quick. Because and the same thing with Zelda too. You could just play
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment a quick little temple and be like, all right, I’m just gonna beat this temple and then I’m just gonna shut it off and I’m gonna go
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment do something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey else. And maybe that’s part of the problem in and now I’m showing my inability to play games But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like I got all of the temples that were easily accessible So like none of so
⏹️ ▶️ John rise please like I can allow us to continue.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sorry. Thank you I went to the I went to all of the shrines
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You must now do ten push-ups no, I went to all the and I do too I went to all the shrines that that were easily
⏹️ ▶️ Casey accessible and And now all that remains that I can see anyway are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like in the super hot lava-y area or like the super cold tundra-y area.
⏹️ ▶️ John All the shrines, they were easily accessible. Can you put a number on that for us, please?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I honestly don’t remember.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann can,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey give me a minute.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh my gosh, there’s so many. You can’t even find them all.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, then that’s probably the thing. It’s just I’m not exploring the right areas. Hold on, let me see if my Switch is even
⏹️ ▶️ John But you don’t have to do shrines at all. You don’t have to do shrines, don’t do shrines. Like that’s the thing about the Zelda.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like if there’s something fun that you find,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, just like maybe you just wanna get the best horse you can get, right? You could spend hours
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment find the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment horse. Oh, you gotta get a lot of donut to get the best horse you can get, let me tell you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, one thing that is really nice that I like about having my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook is I just ripped the power charger cable-y thing out of my MacBook, slammed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it into the Switch, and unfortunately it’s like any modern iOS device in that it needs to be at least
⏹️ ▶️ Casey slightly charged even if it’s hooked up to power to turn it on. But just grabbing my computer’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey power cord in putting it into my video game systems power cord. That’s pretty cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment did that right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, why is the Switch in your office?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because it’s, I never play it on the TV, sorry guys, and to be honest, I never really play it at all. Even
⏹️ ▶️ Casey though I do enjoy it, it’s not that I enjoy it really any less, I just never have a chance.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment That’s why you’re not playing, because it’s not in like the hub of the house. It’s not in the enjoyment center.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann that sounds gross.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann Wow. It doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John sound like, he’s just not that into it as
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann they used to say in the 90s.
⏹️ ▶️ John like one of the great things about the switch, you know, especially for, for, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John short gaming sessions is that of all the gaming things I’ve ever known, it is the fastest
⏹️ ▶️ John from powering on to picking up where you left
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment off. Now, right. It’s easy because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not it’s not an MMO or whatever, but you turn that thing back on and you are the exact millisecond you
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann Yes. And I love that.
⏹️ ▶️ John I love that. You know, that’s no boot screen, no spinners, no cursors, no,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, no anything. I wish destiny did that obviously can’t because of online stuff, but
⏹️ ▶️ John that makes it so easy to just dip in, run, do a thing, grab a thing, fight a person, put it back to
⏹️ ▶️ John sleep, and then just pick up right where you left off.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment You can even be a total monster and play half of a Mario Kart race and then
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John and pause
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it and then come back and pick it up.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, although I would that’s that’s the thing about that. I do it sometimes without those adventure and out those Odyssey now.
⏹️ ▶️ John When you’re having a long session and you think you’re doing well, sometimes you think I should take a break
⏹️ ▶️ John now because I’m approaching my record and if I take a break, I will reset all the goodness
⏹️ ▶️ John and I’ll come back to this later when I haven’t burned through my attention or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. On the other hand, you might come back to it and you’re not in the groove anymore. Knowing when
⏹️ ▶️ John is a smart time to take a break and how long that break should
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Jon, you have to know when to hold them and know
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John when to hold them. Oh, that’s totally,
⏹️ ▶️ John totally true. I found with Alto that it is useful to take a break, but it cannot
⏹️ ▶️ John be a very long break because I don’t want to get out of the flow, but sometimes I do want to release whatever tension I feel like is building up. Also,
⏹️ ▶️ John my problem with Alto and Al-Zadasy and Adventure is that eventually when you get
⏹️ ▶️ John good, your games start lasting a really long time, and it’s like, do I have 45 minutes to play Alto?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey 45 minutes to just sit there and do nothing? That sounds amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m doing nothing, I’m going downhill.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what I mean? I don’t mean that in a disparaging way, I’m just saying, to just have 45 minutes.
⏹️ ▶️ John I go that way really fast. If something gets in my way, I turn.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is an 80s reference for you 90s kids.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Nope, not a bit. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I got nothing.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment I know,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment fine. I’m playing
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Marco, so I don’t get it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thanks. Favorite tech product, the Switch. What tech thing is Tiff most looking forward to
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I’m looking forward to getting Marco’s computer
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment after he’s done,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John how about
⏹️ ▶️ John that? That’s good, all right. Yeah. He’s done. You mean, all right, so I think more accurately
⏹️ ▶️ John it would be after he decides to buy the Mac Pro, you’re going to take his computer and then when he returns
⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac Pro, you’re not giving it back. Right. I am definitely buying the Mac Pro. We know,
⏹️ ▶️ John we know, computer man.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Everyone knew.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is like me definitely not buying the watch. Everyone knows you’re buying a Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. If you could change one, I’m not asking this. This
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is all true.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment No, you asked this.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey doing
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann this.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment This question is like the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Yeah, so this
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment question is…
⏹️ ▶️ John Make whoopie? Yeah, in the butt.
⏹️ ▶️ John If you could change one tech-related thing about Marco, what would it be? I
⏹️ ▶️ John feel like this is safer because it’s tech-related. We’re not asking you to critique him as his being. One tech-related
⏹️ ▶️ John thing about Marco, what would it be?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment If I could change one tech related thing about Marco, what would it be?
⏹️ ▶️ John It can be like a thing that he does with tech that you don’t like a product that he has that you wish he didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John like anything, anything tech related.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I wish he would play games a little bit more. But then I would have less time to play games.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John So you
⏹️ ▶️ John need to get more two player co-op games.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, yeah. Well, we played. Oh, digital Marco, what was that one
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment where you’re under the bunker and we played it like back and forth. Shadow Complex. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Shadow Complex. That was fun when we did that and we had time and things.
⏹️ ▶️ John You kind of, you do, you’re kind of not co-op playing, but like uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Baxley Driver
⏹️ ▶️ John playing. No, can, yeah, over the shoulder playing with each other with Stardew Valley, where like when the one person
⏹️ ▶️ John is playing, the other person is advising,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment right?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, yeah, we did that. We did that for um, Odyssey 2 a little bit. Well, it was more I advise
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Marco or laughed when he totally missed stuff. Like the good wife that I am.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Um, but no, that’s a terrible answer.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. That’s pretty good. I mean, that’s tech related. You wish he played games more.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I mean, he’s so supportive when it comes to getting technology stuff all set up for me or if
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John need his help
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment with anything. He doesn’t get mad if I need extra help. We’re not asking you to
⏹️ ▶️ John say the good things
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann about him.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, well, he’s great. I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I am the best.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment All right, I’d take away that. Whatever he’s using right now, I would take that away from him. should
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment not be allowed to have this. It’s freaking me out.
⏹️ ▶️ John luck. Just tell him to pass a different argument to the voice parameter to the command he’s running.
⏹️ ▶️ John He can pick a different voice. He just keeps picking the default Fred one, which is boring.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, you should definitely pick the sexy Australian Siri voice because that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment one’s pretty good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. And I would ask the next question, but I have no idea what it means. So go ahead, John.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Well, I put that in there. Oh, okay. But you don’t have to say it.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment It’s fine. Okay, so you know how there’s so many different companies now that gather
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment or collaborate a box that they send you and you can get like a quarterly box
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment or a weekly box or of whatever things. Well, Pusheen, the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment little gray internet cat has a box and it’s stupid
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment expensive and it comes quarterly, but it does look pretty cute. So
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I’ve kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann been debating about it. So what’s in it? I’m not I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John familiar with Pusheen. not familiar with the box idea
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment well it’s just a whole bunch of merch like that’s the best way
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment to describe it in like the cheesiest way possible because it is it’s just like here’s some pushin
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment socks and a little vinyl figure and uh i don’t know like a towel
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and a printed turban i don’t know like there’s like all kinds of weird stuff in there that
⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s like you don’t get to pick so it’s kind of like a surprise where you’re like i wonder what i’ll get
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yeah it’s like a curated collection of Pusheen
⏹️ ▶️ John paraphernalia. Does the box cost more or less than the sum of the retail prices of the things it
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Well, less. That’s usually the appeal of the whole box situation. But they say, you know, it’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment hundred dollar value for only $69.99.
⏹️ ▶️ John So since this is a question that you are asking about yourself, my
⏹️ ▶️ John answer, based on the experience seeing my
⏹️ ▶️ John children have way too many possessions. Yeah. Is that you really it’s not so much about
⏹️ ▶️ John whether the box will be exciting. It’s about what happens with the stuff that’s in the box after because you will
⏹️ ▶️ John rapidly run out of places to display things no matter how cute they
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment are. That’s it. That’s the answer I needed. So it’s no no to the pushing box.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I will just enjoy it on Instagram.
⏹️ ▶️ John Plus you got you got a whole new art room and all you’re going to be flooded with art junk. So there’s you’re going
⏹️ ▶️ John be getting plenty of boxes
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John stuff. Yeah. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann I have plenty of
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment stuff to fill my art room with. It’s a good idea not to invest in the pushing box.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Thank you. That really did help. Actually,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey see, this is the opposite of the advice Marco gives, because with almost all things, Marco’s advice is, oh, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John buy. Now, Margo is free to get her one of those boxes for a special occasion because she wouldn’t have bought it for herself. But now here’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a box. But an ongoing commitment to continual boxes, you will run out of places to put that stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, no, no, I wasn’t going to commit to the whole like yearly box situation. I was just thinking for spring,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you know, like Easter Bunny situation, treat yourself.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can get one box I feel like but be careful because one box
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment into many. No, see, no, I don’t see I’m just going to open it and then it’s going to be over. So I might as well watch a video
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment of somebody opening it. Like you get the same thrill.
⏹️ ▶️ John There you go. Now you’d be like every other, you know, seven year old kid who watches
⏹️ ▶️ John Disembodied Hand silently, silently unbox things on YouTube for hours and hours and making people millionaires.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, why not spread the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wealth? Where do I figure where do I figure out how many shrines I have
⏹️ ▶️ John On the loading screen and upper right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh god, I wasn’t paying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the hood It was it was something like it was 20 some shrines, which I’m sure is where you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann go. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment quarter
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you’re a baby. Oh my goodness.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do have the elephant dude. What is that called?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann The divine
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment beast? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment go. I just had to draw a whole bunch of those for Adam. He kept requesting them for his lunchbox notes.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment And I’m like, look, I need like two days to draw a Divine Beast
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann kid. Like I
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment can’t whip that out in the
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann morning in like 20 minutes. Tell him
⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t give away your art for free anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, you have to buy it. Bye.
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#askatp: Hearts or stamina?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Thanks to Casper for sponsoring our show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Jimmy Bossi, Bossi? Buffett. Jimmy Bossé.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Jimmy writes in, max out hearts or stamina? I’m assuming this is a video game thing. I’m assuming
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about Zelda, is it not?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Yay. Is that how we’re reading
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this? Okay. This is actually relevant to my interests if I ever get back to this game. So Marco,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or Marco, cheesy peasy.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment I’m saying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco and John. So Tiff and John, what do you recommend? Let’s start with
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Tiff. I’m going to go with stamina, AKA donut, which Adam calls it donut. But Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment insists that he came up with the name, but it’s really cute and we call it the donut. Um, I definitely
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment think donut because the more stamina you have, the more you can explore
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and then you can get hearts later. So stamina is way more important to max out first.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think this is a choice that people put on themselves. Like with these extremes here, max out hearts or stamina. So like
⏹️ ▶️ John long term obviously you’re gonna max out both right? That’s your you know, if you just keep playing the game That’s gonna happen that where
⏹️ ▶️ John people really want to know is early in the early game. Where should you put your points essentially?
⏹️ ▶️ John and my experience I know there’s a lot of people who say oh just put everything into stamina, but like
⏹️ ▶️ John breath of the wild is You’re more likely to die in breath of the wild than you
⏹️ ▶️ John are in a lot of recent Zelda’s Because they start you weak and because there’s no sort of guided path
⏹️ ▶️ John through the game you can find yourself encountering enemies that want to kill you. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t feel like it’s good advice to tell somebody just put everything into stamina. If you want to do like
⏹️ ▶️ John a recipe, like a two to one ratio, like two in stamina, one in hearts, two in stamina, one in hearts,
⏹️ ▶️ John just pick like a pattern like that, that has some reasonable balance and go with it. I do agree
⏹️ ▶️ John that if you have to weight one, weight stamina more than you think you should weight hearts.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m hesitant to tell people put everything into stamina because you will die a lot and I feel like that is just
⏹️ ▶️ John as frustrating as not being able to climb the hill but I’m super into climbing and also by the way you you
⏹️ ▶️ John will max out stamina long before you max out your heart so if you do this two to one ratio or any kind of thing that favors stamina
⏹️ ▶️ John you will max out your stamina and you’ll feel sad you’re like really that’s all I can get yeah that’s all you can get and then you’ll just spend
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment everything and then you’ll get upset yeah
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yeah I agree with John you articulated that in a much more um you know
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment delicate and poetic way but
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Casey I this is my life every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment Wednesday night. I know it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like duh do the stamina and John is like well actually
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John eloquently
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann exactly.
⏹️ ▶️ John I did not say well actually defend myself.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment But yes I agree with you John that you should do a little bit here a little bit there but more
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment stamina is better so Get a good recipe going.
#askatp: Arcade games
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Brian Middleton writes, what arcade games are each of you nostalgic for from your childhood? Is there one
⏹️ ▶️ Casey game that you would like to own? And this time, let’s start with John. And I actually have answers for this, thank you very much, but we’ll start with
⏹️ ▶️ John I was trying to think of this. Like, so the one game I own is easier, but like games I’m nostalgic
⏹️ ▶️ John for, there’s so many. I did spend a lot of time in arcades as a kid.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I have mine. Do you want to think about it?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, go ahead. I mean, I’m probably not going to pick one because this is in top four, but if you’re you’re you should you definitely
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment okay skeeball
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it’s totally an arcade
⏹️ ▶️ John i know they said arcade game and not video
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yes they did say arcade game and not video game
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John totally skeeball
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and i would love to own a skeeball thing in my house that would be awesome
⏹️ ▶️ John well that’s what you’re nostalgic for from your childhood as well
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment yeah i played skeeball all the time as a kid every time i went to arcades that’s what i would play
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tiff you should listen to this show called top four where the rules really don’t matter and the points and rankings are all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey made up because that was a very top four answer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Tiff Arment to that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment question. No top four arcade games. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann we already
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment know my my top one. So
⏹️ ▶️ John spoiler alert. I would you do top four video games and then you don’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment we already
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment did that first episode man.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann that?
⏹️ ▶️ John But you have to revisit it because now there’s been so many new games come
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment out. I know. Yeah, we have to do a top four mistakes.
⏹️ ▶️ John You but you hadn’t even played Stardew at that point. You hadn’t played Mario Odyssey.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment I know
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and I made the big mistake of not putting Journey on there. So
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all coming back to me now. Now I’d blocked it out.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey For me, these these answers are truly and utterly terrible, but I don’t care because they’re my answers.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey What would I love to have? We actually do have a pinball machine in the house, but but it’s true.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve seen it. It is it is old. It’s older than I am probably not older than John. Heyo.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, I would love to have either Street Fighter 2,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is actually an okay answer. Or Cruisin’ USA, which is a truly and utterly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey terrible game that I loved when I was a kid. See also,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tropic Thunder, no not Tropic Thunder, that’s the movie isn’t it? It was Hydro Thunder or something like that, which is basically Cruisin’ USA
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but boats. Either one of those I think would be tremendous. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know why, like Street Fighter, yeah, you can make a pretty decent argument I would imagine that that was actually a good arcade
⏹️ ▶️ Casey game. Cruisin’ USA and I forgot, what was it called, Hydra Thunder, both really not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good games, but oh man, I spent so many hours playing those in the arcades. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey by arcades, I mean like in a Fudruckers or something like that. But God, they were fun.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but I spent a lot of time in arcades, so much so that I think
⏹️ ▶️ John one of my first memories is learning that five times four is 20
⏹️ ▶️ John from putting a $5 bill into, you know, like learning multiplication based
⏹️ ▶️ John on bills that you would put into the machine that would give you quarters, right? Uh, that’s, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John how young it was. Like it’s before multiplication tables. And also the other factor that comes into this is that arcades
⏹️ ▶️ John probably still like this, I think. But even when I was a kid, uh, like games
⏹️ ▶️ John come into an arcade, right? And they really leave. So when they got the Space
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Invaders machine,
⏹️ ▶️ John probably yeah, probably before I was even born, when was Space Invaders? Before
⏹️ ▶️ John I was old enough to play Space Invaders, someone got a Space Invaders machine and it would just be there and it would stay there and then they would get Pac-Man
⏹️ ▶️ John and then they would get Ms. Pac-Man and then they would get Galaga and then they would get Centipede and like just you know, all the different things and it would
⏹️ ▶️ John be kind of like this, like layers of sediment, like the lower down you go the older the
⏹️ ▶️ John games get and so they never left. So I played all of these games, games that were before my time
⏹️ ▶️ John at the same time like afterburner would come out and it was the big 50 cent machine and the thing moved and so on and so forth
⏹️ ▶️ John but still pacman was sitting right there space invaders missile command was still there missile command compared to afterburner
⏹️ ▶️ John it was like but in the same arcade so i have this huge spread of things that i’m nostalgic for going
⏹️ ▶️ John all the way from you know things like centipede and millipede and pacman stuff like that all the way up to
⏹️ ▶️ John the quote-unquote fancy new games like hydro thunder or afterburner and stuff like that so i can’t
⏹️ ▶️ John if i had to pick one i would probably say gauntlet the original because I think that was it we
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I had the most fun playing that because it was for person sort of side by side in person which was
⏹️ ▶️ John I call was the first game in my arcade anyway that did this that was a novel experience versus you just standing there
⏹️ ▶️ John fighting against yourself or the high scores or whatever so gauntlet is my most nostalgic pick now which game would
⏹️ ▶️ John I like to own none of them because arcade machines are huge just
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey just play the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey main that is true and pinball machines are both huge and weigh a ton.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I cannot even begin to describe to you how heavy that pinball machine is. It is preposterous.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Now, John, why in your fantasies do you always think
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment about putting, like if someone asks you, well, what would you pick to put in your house, like an arcade game
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment or something? And then in your fantasy, you’re squeezing this fantasy object into your real
⏹️ ▶️ John Because I respect the parameters of the problem. They didn’t say, oh, and also you get unlimited money to make
⏹️ ▶️ John a giant house. If I had a giant house, surely I would have a full arcade and then I wouldn’t have to pick a game. I would have all
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment games. Well, see, then you could say things like that, because I don’t assume that it means like, OK, actually
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment put these things in your house. I feel like if you would want that thing, it would already be in your
⏹️ ▶️ John house. So which would you like to own? Some people might some people might have an answer like some people might say, look, I’m you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John I was really into the Star Wars, the vector Star Wars game, and I would love to have one of those. And as people do, they buy them, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they buy that one game because they have room for one of it and make room for one game in their otherwise normal house. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John just saying like, there is no game that I want enough to make room for it in my otherwise normal house.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, but like, I couldn’t put a skeeball game in my house. But I’m still like, that’s what I would want my house.
⏹️ ▶️ John You totally could. No, you didn’t. You have an art room. If you if you cared as much about skeeball as you
⏹️ ▶️ John did about art, the art room is outside of the house, whatever the whole point is, if you were into skeeball instead of art,
⏹️ ▶️ John you could put a skeeball.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann This is my ski board. Mommy needs to have some
⏹️ ▶️ John some private time. It’s gonna go flexible. And I did enjoy ski ball, by the way.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment I like
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, my landlord goes and asked me why I’m renting this space. And I’m like, Well, I am an avid ski ball player.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann And I just don’t have room for it. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann gonna be in the Ski Ball Olympics. I need to train.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I bet you there is I bet you there is totally professional ski ball players.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yeah, no, I’m I’ve played a lot of that. I do have nostalgia for ski ball.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ski ball so fun. I’m terrible at it. I am truly not really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John terrible. Does your
⏹️ ▶️ John right. So here’s a question. Uh, two, two questions, two parts of this. All right. So the skeeball
⏹️ ▶️ John angle is if you had a skeeball machine in your house, would it be important to you that it gives tickets?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Ooh, yes. And I would have a basket of things that you could win with the tickets.
⏹️ ▶️ John All right. Now, if you have an arcade game in your house, would you make it take quarters?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yes. Because then you would use the quarters for fun stuff later on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Our pinball machine does not take quarters. I mean, it has a slot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John for it. It’s all part
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Yeah, I feel like then
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it’s like restricting it in some like weird kind of not important
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John way because you’re in your house.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can make like a little like a little cardboard thing with an NFC or QR code on it. You’d hold it in front
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like the idea of having to go to the bank and get a roll of quarters to play a game in your own home.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, what you need to have is a token machine. So you have to
⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann build it and you
⏹️ ▶️ John Armint tokens that you can only spend in the Armint
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment arcade.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh yes, custom
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tokens. Armint arcade. Can you imagine Adam Armint’s arcade? There you go. Oh, we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment building this. Digital Marco, write that down in the good ideas list, please.
⏹️ ▶️ John Done. Oh my god. So you pay the miners with money
⏹️ ▶️ John they can only spend at the company’s store, see?
#askatp: Learning photography
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The final Ask ATP question, which Tiff is probably the most equipped
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to answer, Simon Tanler asks, what are some good resources, blogs,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey books, people to follow, etc. for photography beginners? Not really gear wise, more about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey learning the craft.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment So I read this and I was thinking, at first thought I was thinking
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment of like what the pretty much the one photographer that I follow and that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Jamie Beck and she has been living in Provence for the past year and doing a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment of still life photography and actually showing her techniques with using film
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and digital and it’s just been really fascinating to watch. So she’s a really great one to check out. But
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it’s very personal what you want to see as to learn for
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment technique and craft on what type of photography you want. It’s a lot like art, right? Like you find a style
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment that you’re very into or an artist that you’re very into. And I think a great
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment resource for that right now is Instagram. And if you find
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment one photographer or one, I’m just going to say artist, it doesn’t matter. It translates both ways. So you find a
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment photographer on there that you really like and you can see who they follow or who
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment follows them and especially in the Explore tab. And then it kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment rolls into finding other photographers that are interesting to you,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment whether it’s landscape or it’s portraits or it’s various different styles, the way they shoot
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment texture, the way they shoot light. And I think if you start following that and you start looking at a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment pictures and a lot of other people’s work, it can kind of open up your eye to find a style that you like.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment And at first when you’re practicing, it is not a problem to mimic someone else’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment work. give credit, don’t charge for it, don’t try and sell it. But
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment being it for you as a learning experience, I think that that is a fantastic way to
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment open up your creativity and then you can move on from there. But I really,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I’ve been loving Instagram for following artists and seeing the way that they do different techniques and then that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment kind of it snowballs into the next person that I follow and then they follow other
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment people that are similar but slightly different and And you kind of can see how someone’s art or photography
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment evolves through even their own personal feed. And it’s been really
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment valuable to kind of immersing yourself in all of that. And that’s what
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I would definitely suggest. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Instagram. Yeah, I would agree with that. I still love Instagram. And even though it’s owned by Facebook
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Facebook is getting ever more creepy with each passing moment, I adore Instagram. I look at Instagram
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot. A photographer that I admire quite a bit on Instagram
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is Erin Brooks, whose username on Instagram is Erin R. Brooks. She has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two young daughters, and most of her shots are of her or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey her kids or her and her kids. And I would guess about a third
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to a half are like a big camera, but half to two-thirds are just her iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And what’s really great is, as we record this, she’s done some Instagram stories where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey she’ll take a shot that she shot on her iPhone and show how she like tweaks it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and edits it all on her iPhone in order to make it into the final product.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think she’s a great follow. I’m sure that there’s a bunch of others that I’m not thinking of, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey she’s really great. Also if you happen to like, say, a particular subject matter, like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cars, for example. I don’t know if anyone on this show has ever talked about cars for any length of time, But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s oftentimes a lot of really good car-related accounts, or maybe it’s watches,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if that’s your thing. Whatever the case may be, oftentimes you’ll find somebody that likes not only
⏹️ ▶️ Casey photography, but that thing. And it’s really great to follow them, because you can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a lot of the same kind of ideas about composition and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey depth of field and things like that, just by looking at shots of cars. They’re pretty cars, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re pretty shots, and it works out well.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment other photographer that I really like that I think people should check out if they like portraiture.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Benoit Paille, B-E-N-O-I-T
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment P-A-I-L-L-E. I think that’s how you pronounce his name. But anyway, he’s an amazing
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment portrait photographer and you should check out his work. It’s just stunning.
Gas dinosaurs
⏹️ ▶️ John How do you feel about Marcos tasting cars, which
⏹️ ▶️ John is another way to come at it is when it’s time for you to get your next car, you’re going to get an electric one. How do you
⏹️ ▶️ John feel about your car? Like what’s the car? What’s your take on the car situation in the Arman household?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Oh, my car is a dinosaur and I forget to fill it up with gas. So I
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment don’t want to do that anymore. And I definitely want a Tesla for my next car.
⏹️ ▶️ John Big one or small one like you
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment The small one. I want the small
⏹️ ▶️ John one. the roadster or the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment three? The three, the new one that’s gonna come out or has come out or has a big waiting list to come out. I don’t know. But I figure
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment in two years when my lease is up, we’re good to go.
⏹️ ▶️ John Have you looked at the dashboard that Casey hates so
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment much? Oh, I don’t care. I’ll figure it out. I just don’t wanna fill my car up with gas anymore. So
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it’ll be easier just to have two Teslas.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John Right? That sounds
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it sounds… You used to be taking your car because Margo had
⏹️ ▶️ John anxiety about the superchargers, But now it seems like you’re just taking a Tesla all the time. And like, I don’t know what you use your car
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment for. Oh, I don’t know what I use my car for either. I like go down the block sometimes.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I drive around the corner when I don’t want to walk home at night and hang out with my friends.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it seems like you’ve collectively gotten over the whole, like whatever the limitations of electric car, you’ve felt them out to
⏹️ ▶️ John the point where now there’s no reason for you to have a gas car in reserve just in case you say you need to flee
⏹️ ▶️ John an expanding mushroom cloud or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Wow. Yeah, I’m abandoning it. It’s I mean, the amount of times that I forget to fill it up with gas
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment versus how many times the mushroom cloud might be here. I’m going to go with the Tesla.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if you order the three now, you might get it by the time your lease is up.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment true. Interesting point. Marco, we should order that.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John the version of anything
⏹️ ▶️ John says shopping list. Marco, add Model 3 to shopping list.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Do you want me to search the web for ad model three?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well played, Robot Marco. Well played. Are we done here? I think we’re
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment done. All right. Well, thanks to our sponsors, Casper, Fracture, and Squarespace. And we’ll see
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment you next week!
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann And you can find the show notes at atp.fm
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that’s Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Marco Armin S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Syracuse It’s accidental, they
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann didn’t mean to Accidental, accidental, tech
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann podcast so long.
Post-show: Playing for Fun
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment I started a new podcast called Playing for Fun with Mike Hurley
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and we talk only about the positive stuff about playing video games. So it’s like two besties
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment playing video games and discussing them. We don’t have any negative talk, no industry
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment talk, no just very much the fun
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment and the enjoyment that we get from the game and what we liked about it. And yeah, so that’s where we’re going. We already had
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment our first episode. It was about Mario Odyssey and you can check it out on Relay
⏹️ ▶️ John there we go. What is
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann the publication
⏹️ ▶️ John schedule? Because shouldn’t we be having the second episode by now?
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, we’re recording on Friday, the next episode, but we’re going to be doing it once a month. So that
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, Jonathan Mann way we each have… Once a month? Aww. Well, it’s so… I wish I’d known that before
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John I got invested in
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment this. So it’s not a huge commitment for everybody. Well, why? It’s a great thing. It’s easy to invest in because it’s not… it won’t
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment bog down your playlist of podcasts because we need time to play the games
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment all the way enough to discuss them. And then that way it, and it also doesn’t become
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like a big, uh, burden for other people to add a new podcast to their
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment list. So it’s nice and easy. And yeah, so it’s, it’s, uh, I like it once a
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment month. It feels good. It comes up faster than you think because we’re already recording again on Friday and I just finished
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment the game we were going to be talking about. So.
⏹️ ▶️ John Wow. I don’t, I don’t think you need the name the time to play the games because you have such a backlog. You could talk about games that
⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve played in the past for like a year before you even got to games that are going now. Because again, it’s not like you’re talking about current
⏹️ ▶️ John events or something. You could talk about games you played seven years ago.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment I mean, I guess it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John hard. Maybe maybe Mike hasn’t played them then. He’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment not. Well, that’s the thing. It has to be both of us. We’ve started a nice little list of things that we would possibly
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment like to games we would like to talk about in the future. But a lot of them, it’s one of us has played
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment it or one of us hasn’t. And then or one of us has tried it a little bit, but didn’t get very
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment into it. So we do need the time because we do have other things to do besides play games all day.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment You know, even though we are mostly playing games for fun anyway in our free time, because that’s what we enjoy. So
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment we we do have some nice things to fall back on some, you know, things that we’ve played in the past, just like you said,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment but yeah, so John, this is a show that you can definitely never be on because I don’t think you could stay positive
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment about a game
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John for an entire podcast.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s this description here of like, who wrote this? It’s probably Marco. John probably has some
⏹️ ▶️ John nitpicks about a show focused solely on the good things about games. Like there’s only been one episode that I’ve heard, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I know you’re trying to say like, it’s not like you’re going to critique and you’re not going to talk about games that you don’t like, but even when
⏹️ ▶️ John talking about the games that you like, there are always quirks and odd things in the games that you are briefly
⏹️ ▶️ John momentarily laughing at the game instead of with it or talking about how you wish this thing was a little bit different. That happens.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just in general, it’s positive. It’s not as if you are blind to the quirks of the game. Let’s say
⏹️ ▶️ John you still do talk about that. Nothing is so perfect.
⏹️ ▶️ John And as for like, the reason I’m asking about past games is I wonder how you’re going to navigate speaking of trying to say positive
⏹️ ▶️ John on how you’re going to navigate this because I want to hear you talk about like the long dark and half life or
⏹️ ▶️ John all sorts of games that I assume Mike has never played.
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann I definitely want to get him to play the long dark. I do right.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if the rule is that you both you have to play it. And one of you, quote unquote, makes the other one play it. What if the other one
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t like it? I still want to hear you podcast about it. Right. And so then we’ll Mike have to be politely explained, as
⏹️ ▶️ John so often happens in other shows where Mike is talking about games with somebody else. One person might like it more than the other, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ John say. And you have to be able to have that conversation in a reasonably positive way. And I hope that’s what you do.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, I think that that’s what we’re going to try and do because or we’re just won’t if the game is so negative,
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment or so disliked by one of the people, one of us, then we probably wouldn’t talk
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment about it or we’d put it on the back burner for for a later date. But right now for the
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment shows that we’re going to be talking about the first few episodes or so, we’re going to try and stay mostly positive.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Tiff Arment Reminded
⏹️ ▶️ John when Gruber was raving about the grand tour to Marco was the best.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment See, I didn’t have three hours to listen to that.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment, John So yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John but by the way, I have an explanation for that for Marco who is sitting there off to the side pretending he can’t talk.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s because he’s never seen Top Gear. So he doesn’t have like he doesn’t understand how much
⏹️ ▶️ John better this same thing could be. So like if this is your first viewing of these three people doing
⏹️ ▶️ John something they like this like whatever if you don’t realize that this is the much worse
⏹️ ▶️ John version of a previous thing
⏹️ ▶️ John bad I’m trying to make some excuses for why like Grimber likes the grantor as much as he seems to
⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann it’s so bad oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey gosh it’s not that I shouldn’t say that it’s not so bad it’s just so bad compared to what it was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s just the mighty have
⏹️ ▶️ John fallen yeah that’s what I’m saying. And he doesn’t have he doesn’t have a comparison.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, makes me sad. The playing for fun reminds
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me of a podcast by a couple of local guys here in Richmond, called Sam and Ross like things
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we’ll put a link in the show notes to that as well. It’s a similar idea where just every I think they do it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fortnightly and and each of them has to bring something that they like to the show and and the rule is no hedging.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so in this era, that’s, you know, everyone complaining about everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, it’s nice to have something like Playing for Fun or, you know, Sam and Ross-like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things or something else where people are more positive.
⏹️ ▶️ Tiff Arment Yeah, we’re trying to keep it light and happy and give people something to smile when they listen.