Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

233: Nobody Cares But Me, But I Do Care

HomePod firmware, iPod Shuffles, bikes, and bug spray.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Baked clamshells
  2. Intro
  3. John’s vacation
  4. Follow-up: TSMC 10nm
  5. Follow-up: Subwoofers
  6. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  7. Follow-up: Bicycles
  8. Follow-up: A Christmas Story
  9. Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
  10. D22 firmwarez
  11. Sponsor: Audible
  12. “Ferrari”
  13. No more iPods
  14. No more Flash
  15. Ending theme
  16. John’s vacation, redux

Baked clamshells

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you use the, it’s a 15 inch. No, you have, you know, you have the Escape with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the 5K and the Escape is clamshell.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Close, it’s back to a 15, remember? I know I make it hard to keep track.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can’t keep track, holy shit. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco so wait, so you’re on a 15 touch bar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m on a 15 touch bar,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I never actually used the touch bar. And that was because all the ports. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey partially because of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ports and it was partially because I tried the first few weekends I was spending here, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used the the MacBook escape with the 5k and it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco struggling to drive all those pixels like basic operations like window dragging was slow and and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I did want more performance if it was gonna be like my main computer for a month of heavy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS development you know then I rationalized it away by saying well then when I go home I can bring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the LG 5k and I can sell my iMac while it is still under

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of warranty it has like a few it’s I think it’s under warranty till October and then, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use my clamshell with this setup I have now as my main setup until the Mac Pro comes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I have appropriated a second 4K monitor, which is a story that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not worth telling at the moment. So I have two of these, uh, LJ 4K monitor LG.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What did I just say? LJ, LG 4K monitors that are now being run off of my pre touch bar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook Pro and to be honest, it actually seems just fine with these. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey granted, they’re 4K, not 5K. It’s a big difference, but it seems just fine with two 4Ks. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have forgotten how persnickety and, and fickle Mac OS is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it comes to clamshell mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Cause there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are lots of times that I’ll, I’ll like, I put it to sleep and I open it up and it’s furious and sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doesn’t wake up. I don’t put it to sleep and I just rip all the cables out and I walk away and it goes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to sleep and then may or may not wake up. Or I’ll open the lid and I’ll rip all the cables out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then everything just dances all over the place and then it may or may not actually be the way I want it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be. Clamshell is not really what we should be doing with these things, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unfortunate because I do like it when I have either a 5K as you have or a couple of 4Ks like I have. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tell you what, as I’ve been using Clamshell here at vacation times, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco completely agree. It’s been a while since I’ve used just a laptop with Mac OS, a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptop with a desktop screen connected to it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Like, I used

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do that all the time. I used to be on my main setup. But that was probably a good six,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seven years ago at least. And I had forgotten quite how just inconsistent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of the stuff is. Like, it just doesn’t work right. And now with the Touch Bar, it’s even worse. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every time I log in, the text box won’t show on the main screen. I have to start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco typing. because it’s the laptop is waiting for touch ID, but it’s closed. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the big LG screen, it just shows me a login window and it will not show the text area

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless you start typing. It’s just like weird little stuff like that. It’s just, it’s just not, it’s not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really, honestly, I’m rethinking my plan now of like getting rid of my iMac early. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, Oh God, this is, this is awkward. Not to mention like this LG screen is such a piece of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crap.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Is it really? I read it about it before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not, I mean, So one thing is I had to get an Ergotron arm because the stand is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wobbly. It just kept wobbling. Like every time I would like type on my keyboard, I don’t think I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that aggressive of a typist, but every time I would type on the keyboard, my monitor would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wobble back and forth. But yeah, the LG is… it’s a piece of crap. It’s just, it’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good… It’s a PC monitor, it has crap speakers, it has crap frame around

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, it’s, you know, it had that stupid interference problem with the early ones. Like, it’s just not a well-engineered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco piece of anything, and I don’t expect to be buying more non-Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco monitors there if I can help it.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so this is a weird setup for tonight. It is currently the evening

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Friday, the 4th of August, and we are going to do a marathon recording

⏹️ ▶️ Casey session. And we need to get this week’s, which probably won’t be released until tomorrow on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the 5th, Saturday, the 5th of August, this week’s recording, which will probably be a mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey normal ATP recording, and next week’s, which will be released on or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey around Wednesday the 9th. We are going to do a bit of Q&A,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably for most of what ends up being the second episode. But we are recording

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these both back to back, and we may or may not have a clean separation between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first episode and the second, depending on how aggressive Marco gets when he does the splicing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dicing. So… I have so many ideas. Oh, I can only imagine. This one…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m thinking like, so my two favorite ideas are either we do like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next week on ATP, like one of those like previous, or we do like the classic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cop out of like, I don’t know how to end this song in the 80s. So I’m just gonna fade it out. We’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just be repeating the same sentence over and over again and just slowly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fade, fade, fade it out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Way to spoil your two best ideas. I hope you don’t put this in the episode. Oh, it’s so true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway, so this one, it might feel, or this one and the next one, I should say, might feel slightly weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I apologize if that’s the case. Like we had mentioned, I think on the last episode, between the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three of us, we have planned our vacations to not overlap at all,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is kind of unfortunate for times when you want to make sure all three of you are here to record. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re doing the best we can. We apologize. And thanks for bearing with us. being said.

John’s vacation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, how was your beach vacation?

⏹️ ▶️ John It was fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Good talk. No.

Follow-up: TSMC 10nm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s start with some follow-up. Wow. That is the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John answer I could have imagined. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco right, so let’s talk about. That was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually slightly more upbeat than I would have guessed. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So let’s talk about TSMC’s 10 nanometers versus Intel’s 10 nanometers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we had somebody in the know write in. And that person said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I work for one of the companies involved. and they might be biased, but I like the show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is this person talking, and I just wanted to point out that like so many other things in technology, naming of process

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nodes has become more marketing than reality. So there’s an article that talks about this, and one of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recent tricks, continues this anonymous emailer, one of the recent tricks is to quote a distance between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey features that are not electrically active. So this allows you to quote a small number, but of course doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do much for increasing transistor density. And another person, Julian

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Heatherbell, wrote in to say that TSMC’s 10 nanometers is only a bit denser than Intel’s 14.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Intel claims a three-year advantage on 10 nanometers and wants to redefine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything. We have another post about that. And yet another post, which we’ll put in the show notes about how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Intel may still be set to lose process leadership after next year.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re going to race you in a hurry. You got somewhere to be. We got two episodes to fill here. You’re like, well, we got to slide

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco through

⏹️ ▶️ John this

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco fall off as fast as we

⏹️ ▶️ John can. You should stretch it out. You know, you know, the TV stretch out motion looks like you’re pulling Taffy,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you know that one? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re doing the opposite. You’re doing the fingers

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey rotating. To

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bring it together. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yeah, get it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco together. Hurry it up, hurry it up. Do we really need to

⏹️ ▶️ John try hard to stretch out follow-up? Apparently we do because Casey’s going for a speed run again. Let me just put

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a bow on this whole section of follow-up. There

⏹️ ▶️ John will be three links in the show notes if you want to read more about this. But the upshot is that a lot, a lot of people wrote us to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John hey, Intel 10 nanometer is gonna be way smaller than TSMC 10 nanometer.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there’s a lot of reasons for that. And feature size is not very strictly defined.

⏹️ ▶️ John As a couple of these emailers pointed out, you can quote unquote cheat by quoting distances

⏹️ ▶️ John that aren’t meaningful or quoting distances that make your particular arrangement look good. Because again,

⏹️ ▶️ John when they’re laying out the things on the chips, it’s a 3D arrangement of things. There’s a layering, vertical, horizontal,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s three dimensional. It’s not just like, even though it’s done with lithography, it’s not just two dimensional

⏹️ ▶️ John like a drawing. It’s actually a 3D shape and it influences what the distances are between things. And anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s complicated, but consensus was from all the different feedback and all the different articles that TSMC 10

⏹️ ▶️ John nanometer is not as small as Intel 10 nanometer. And Intel still has a lead. And that final link is like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they have lead now, but they’re going to lose it in 2019 or later. And I guess we’ll see. That was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still fairly quick. Thank you very much. I’m just saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But you’re right, we should stretch it out. So.

Follow-up: Subwoofers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven Dean wrote in to say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can’t even continue with this. I thought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you were struggling to pronounce his name. No, no, no.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I’m like, wow, that was an easy one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven Dean, that one’s really difficult. So Steven wrote in to say, you’re missing a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lot of your movie sound without a subwoofer. Your atoms only go down to about 86 hertz, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is normal cutoff for a non-full range. Can you translate that into English for me?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so basically, you know, speakers, because they are these giant moving things and everything, there’s a certain frequency

⏹️ ▶️ Marco range that they’re able to reproduce. And what he’s saying is that the low end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the frequency range of the woofers that are in my Paradigm Atom speakers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they can’t reproduce very, very, very low frequencies. And subwoofers have a lower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco floor. They can reproduce frequencies much lower. And that is certainly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one reason to have a subwoofer. I think a better reason to have a subwoofer is to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like more more bass energy, you can get more of that thump, more of that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slam, bass hits and sounds and stuff and you can also just get more volume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and more spread. That’s probably the better reason to have it honestly. But my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons for not liking subwoofers and not really wanting one remain. I designed my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TV speaker setup to be really good for music in a way that still is okay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for TV. And I think for music, I still largely prefer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two speakers, not surround, and for that to be not with some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big, booming, thumpy subwoofer in the corner of the room.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now I know there are ways to do it better. However, the arrangement of my living room is such that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t really have a good place to put a subwoofer, or maybe even a pair of subwoofers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that would make any sense and that would sound good. So lots of people have written in saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can put the subwoofer in good places. There are good subwoofers. There are more ways to do it than what I said last time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that is true in an ideal world, but my living room is not an ideal world. And so I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limitations of what I can put where,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how much space I have in the current arrangement, how things need to look,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because we don’t want everything to just be this on like giant box. So, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my setup is fine for me. And if you want subwoofers in your setup, or if you want surround sound in your setup,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool. I don’t really mind either way.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know how the setup is good for music if you’re giving up 20 to 86 Hertz, that entire frequency

⏹️ ▶️ John range. That’s present in music too. It’s not just movies with explosions that have it. You know, I mean, all the things about volume,

⏹️ ▶️ John obviously, yeah, maybe you want that exaggerated in a movie, but just plain old music. Music has bass too. I know you don’t like bass,

⏹️ ▶️ John usually in your headphone reviews, but you’re missing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco out on part of the spectrum.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t like when bass is all you hear. And so while, again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I agree that it would be nice to have solid response across the whole frequency

⏹️ ▶️ Marco range. In practice, it’s way easier doing headphones than it is in speakers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Headphones, you only have one driver and you can do a lot of easier things with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. But with speakers, you have to have large things that depend on the arrangement of your room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and large boxes and large transducers of some kind that vibrate up and down.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just get a HomePod, it’ll figure out how your room is arranged and make sure everything sounds okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m actually really curious to hear how the HomePod deals with bass. Because bass,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s one of those things, it’s kind of like how it’s hard for very, very small camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensors to do things that require big glass. Bass

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reproduction is one of those things where at some point you kind of just need largeness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like you need a large surface to vibrate slowly to get some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that, you know? And so it’s very, very hard for any kind of very small speaker to have good bass

⏹️ ▶️ Marco response. That’s why once the trend moved in computer speakers, and then later in home theater

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speakers, once the trend moved to very, very small speakers, they also had to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco add subwoofers. Because the little tiny speakers can reproduce the higher frequencies just fine,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but then they needed to add a subwoofer to get the low frequencies. And there was no way to make like a small speaker

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that could also do the low frequencies. So the Amazon Echo definitely has this problem, where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bass on it is non-existent, although the sound quality isn’t very good anyway on it, so maybe they just don’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the HomePod, I would imagine they’re gonna care a lot about sound quality, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am really curious to see how they solve that problem, if they solve that problem, or if they just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, crank up the bass in DSP, within the speaker, like artificially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inflate the little bit of bass they have, and just hope that’s enough and call it a day.

⏹️ ▶️ John What was the biggest driver in the HomePod? It was like four inches or six inches or something?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I should look that up. Six inches is pretty big.

⏹️ ▶️ John The whole thing is not that big. So we know it can’t be, it’s not bigger than the pod itself. It actually is a pretty small

⏹️ ▶️ John little thing, but yeah, it can’t be that big of a speaker in there. It’s kind of a shame that, you know, it was a question

⏹️ ▶️ John I had about them and I still have, that although I think it’s mostly been answered, if you buy two of them like they recommend,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not as if they act like stereo speakers. It seems like they both just figure out how to best fill

⏹️ ▶️ John the room with sound, but each one of them, it’s not like one is the left speaker and one is the right. And similarly, one

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t just become the sub. You know what I mean? Like imagine if one could just do the low frequencies and

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like a little subwoofer anyway, it looks like the jellyfish, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t work that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way. When we were living in Connecticut, so this is when I was in like high school,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dad had decided that he wanted to take his home theater

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really seriously. And so not only did we have some subwoofer somewhere in the corner of the room, but he actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey installed—I believe the term was Bass Shakers, or at least maybe that’s a brand, like a Xerox

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing. What is that? A proprietary eponym or whatever it is? But anyways, basically under the floor

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the room, the TV room, there were a handful of basically vibrator motors

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like you would find in your phone, just much bigger. And they were wired into like the amplifier and acted as like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ancillary subwoofers. So you would literally feel explosions when you’re watching movies is pretty cool at the time

⏹️ ▶️ John magic fingers right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sure that’s a reference and I don’t get it but I’m just gonna roll with it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these terms all sound really

⏹️ ▶️ John gross yeah in the modern province it’s a well they look the local furniture store

⏹️ ▶️ John that has an IMAX theater this is a normal thing if you are from where I’m from oh my god yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John has a thing called butt kickers only

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah it’s not similar yeah no I

⏹️ ▶️ John hear they call them butt kickers

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey literal thing

⏹️ ▶️ John in everybody’s seat that shakes you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s novel. It is novel. That’s well put. Also, Marco, I want to commend you for being

⏹️ ▶️ Casey okay with not perfection. Because I completely agree with you. It is unequivocally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not perfection to not have a subwoofer. And to be okay with that is kind of freeing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s like, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco this is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey best it could possibly be. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, it’s the living room setup. First of all, that is mostly used for TV. I still want to sound

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very good for music, but it honestly is mostly used for TV and it sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very good enough for TV for us. I even ran this by Tiff when we started having all these discussions and everyone’s telling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us, you have to get a standard channel, you have to get a standard channel, you can’t use the stereo mix, it’s terrible. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco asked Tiff, hey, you want to do all this stuff? It’ll apparently sound better. He’s like, no, that’s it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey just no. And I’m like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay, really, I don’t either, so I don’t even know why I’m asking. So there you go, no, we don’t want it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But yeah, I do understand it would be better. But there are different factors here also,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like how we want it to look, how we actually use it, how we actually live, so that’s different.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When it comes to my headphones, on the other hand,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I actually recently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bought a second pair of my awesome best headphones in the world headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Hi-Fi Man 8G6, because they were discontinued a couple years ago, and you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get them anymore. So I actually bought a used pair on a forum that was in really like brand new condition basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so now I have a backup of those and of course I brought one here. So, because we’re in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the middle of a huge run of new fish shows, I’m not gonna listen to that on my crap headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna listen to those on my awesome headphones. So, here I am. Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John right. In the middle of a huge run of fish shows, before you finish that sentence, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John are the fish spawning? Are they coming up onto the shore and leaping into your house? Like, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, pH. Well, yeah, well only one of them is good

⏹️ ▶️ John But is this the thing that happens is like the weather like during the summer. That’s when the fish shows come

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John goodness

⏹️ ▶️ John silent crabs they just crawl across the landscape and lo there was fish

⏹️ ▶️ John This surely, you know the Chris am I getting the reference Christmas Island crabs am I getting that right? Do you know what I’m talking about? You’re actually

⏹️ ▶️ John us

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah you’re asking one person’s person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John person people I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco think people’s the word crabs

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have never googled Christmas Island crabs you need to do that after whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John cause the show Google Christmas on crabs you should watch the videos and look at

⏹️ ▶️ John some of the pictures then come back oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco my god

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to keep doing the show

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oh my god

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what is that what is going on why are they doing this

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s when the fish comes and that’s the representation of gigabytes

⏹️ ▶️ John of live music of songs that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never end oh my god there’s waves and waves of these things that’s you waves

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a very good song this

⏹️ ▶️ John is like three lyrics and just this lot of guitar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my God. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Got your meat stick right here. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

⏹️ ▶️ John ha ha ha ha ha Time for the meat stick, bury

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the meat stick, Take out the main stick, Tom

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Follow-up: Bicycles

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey We got a lot of people a lot of a lot of people right in with opinions about bicycles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who knew that so many people who listen to show at opinions about bicycles, but there are a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of people that do and one of the things that was striking to me and I wasn’t really paying close attention to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feedback to this because because quite frankly, I don’t care. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a ton of people wrote in to say that Isla Bikes, that’s I-S-L-A, which is apparently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a UK company. So this is And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they have a US distributor somewhere, I think in Portland, because Portland, or somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco there. Of course it’s in Portland.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, exactly. So anyways, almost unanimously, almost everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who wrote in said, Oh, you should get an Isla bike. They’re the best. They’re expensive, but they’re the best. So I actually took

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a note that when Declan is of age, we need to look at these Isla bikes, because there was not a single

⏹️ ▶️ Casey person that said, oh, don’t get an Isla. They’re overrated, blah, blah, blah. No, everyone said, get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them. So we’ll put a link in the show notes to their UK-based website. And then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what is this video that I presume John put

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John in? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John that was just a pronunciation video that I thought was cute. We did get tons of suggestions at first. When they first started coming in, I’m like, boy,

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll have lots of links to the show notes. I’ll put links to all these people’s recommended bike manufacturers, but then they were just too many

⏹️ ▶️ John like there were just too many things so it’s by We just went with majority rules. I love bikes got

⏹️ ▶️ John the most recommendations second most recommendations was womb bikes w o m

⏹️ ▶️ John Bikes calm. I think they have a US location because the URL I have here is us stop womb bikes

⏹️ ▶️ John calm There were a ton of other places These are both obscure some people

⏹️ ▶️ John recommending less obscure things like REI and specialized But a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of anyway, bottom line is people are finding bikes that they find satisfying. And we’ll just

⏹️ ▶️ John put these two links in if you’re looking for ones that had the majority of parents

⏹️ ▶️ John and or bike nerds recommending them. It was these two.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, and there were there were a ton of bike recommendations for what I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should get, like not just what I should get for my son, but also what I should get. I think what I’ve what I’ve decided and this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is based on not actually riding any of these yet. What I want is very, very low maintenance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and simplicity. So I basically came down to a few things that became

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that I really consider requirements that end up ruling out most of what people recommend. Also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco preferences. So because I’m doing most of my riding in a beach town, for instance, I wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two-inch tires, not the little skinny one-inch ones that are better for going fast on roads. I want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big two inch ones so that it’s more comfortable. It’s better if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to go on the edge of one of the walks and go into a little packed sand for a second. I won’t immediately just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stop and fall over like a skinny tire might. So stuff like that. So basically my list of requirements

⏹️ ▶️ Marco became I want something that could accommodate two inch tires with fenders.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the big ones are I want belt drive instead of a chain. And I want there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be no, oh God, I don’t know how this is pronounced. derailer derailer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey derailer derailer whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that thing is a little thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah whatever the thing is that moves the gears

⏹️ ▶️ John you want you want an internal internal geared

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hub

⏹️ ▶️ John and a belt drive you’re so you’re so trendy like you’ve never you’ve never had a bike with any one of these things but you already know that you want them

⏹️ ▶️ John because somebody told you that belt drive is better than a chain well because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco internal is better than derailer well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco okay first of all because the bike i have here now that came in the house in the basement uh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is you know a rusty old mountain bike that has a derailleur and a rusty chain.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but when they work, they work fine. Believe me, they’re fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it’s not. No, it’s not fine. Because now we have better things. Like, it was fine when I was a kid when I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had my mountain bike when I was like in high school.

⏹️ ▶️ John Modern bikes with derailleurs, I swear to you, are absolutely fine. They’re… don’t use your… Anyway, internal gear,

⏹️ ▶️ John fine, whatever. I haven’t used them either. I can’t say that they’re bad. I’m just saying, like, don’t pull them as hard and fast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco requirements. The really funny thing, John, is that they now have bike CVTs. Oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John God. Oh yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Look up New Vinshee. Of course And it’s it they have there’s a CVT that’s it’s like about this It seemed like it’s about in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same price tier as like a decent like 11 speed internal hub I just thought like oh my god if I get a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco CVT John will die like I Will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John never get the end of it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll it’ll be well you already I mean I was just thinking about this the other day Both of you are

⏹️ ▶️ John slowly slowly fading from the manuals Marco doesn’t even have it anymore Casey Well, I guess you

⏹️ ▶️ John just replaced a non manual with a nine manual, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey still exactly I’m the

⏹️ ▶️ John only one who’s holding strong here. Anyway, you can take your CVT and just pretend it has gears just like the software does in most modern

⏹️ ▶️ John cars and just make

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco engine revving noises.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so basically, so my short list right now, I’m still looking at various things. Some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the headliners are Priority, the Priority company. I actually ordered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Priority Coast to have here at the Beach House for like a general purpose bike because we have lots of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people here. Tiff wants to ride one also, so I figure I’ll get this, try it out. It’s belt drive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fixed gear, coaster brake. So it’s very simple. It’s also fairly affordable. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like 400 bucks. So I’m getting that to try it out. At the high end, if I get into this and I want a nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bike, probably for home, I am very, very taken by the Budnitz

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bicycles or I don’t, I assume it’s pronounced Budnitz. They’re pretty expensive, but they’re very nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s, they basically make exactly what I want. So I’m going to try to find a showroom and try one of those out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If I want a nice bike for home, it’s probably little expensive for the beach. So for the beach I’m looking at priority.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honorable mention for Breezer and Electra. Everyone recommended these two brands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I would like to investigate them, like to see them. Neither of them really make what I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want. Like they don’t have all those things as a combination but yeah both Breezer and Electra look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really really good. Also everyone says Trek. You know there’s a reason why Trek is so big and well known.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I find the amount of branding on Trek’s bikes a little bit garish like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they like the across like the diagonal bar in the frame it just has those giant letters and say track like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t really want that like I want something a little more low-key and subtle which

⏹️ ▶️ John we get a Cannondale

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yes they do that’s all yeah like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco eat and yeah so like again like wanting a belt drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco internal gearing two inch tires and minimal branding that rules out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of what people suggest. So I will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will follow up if I if I buy anything more I’m gonna do the priority for the you know for the next few

⏹️ ▶️ Marco days and then you know whenever it arrives try that out and then if I love it I’ll just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use that if I hate it it’ll be the tiff slash spare bike here and I’ll keep coming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey no

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey she wants it or something

⏹️ ▶️ John All right one more question on bikes. Why do you why do you want fenders?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because of the drainage on this island is not very good. There’s often very large puddles that I have to drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco through So I just don’t want it to splash back up on my back Oh, and for everybody who’s sending me the IKEA

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bike. I did look at the IKEA slada bike It is belt drive. It has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco internal two-speed gear It is in my opinion one of the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco boring looking bikes I’ve ever seen I would like a bike to have some visual personality. It doesn’t but not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not to scream It’s brand name and giant letters on the frame, but to have like maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a color that isn’t just black and gray Like that would be nice Some kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco color

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the guy who buys black cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My car is bright red

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mmm, this one was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco although you know what though this priority Beach Cruiser bike that I ordered it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen to be white

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know it’s funny Marco that can happen to a person from time to time can’t it? It was the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only good color. Funny how that is Marco you know it can happen to a person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from time to time can’t it? You

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are the worst. Yeah yeah that’s funny I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wait to see pictures of you float by on Instagram on your delightful white bike.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It honestly it looks really good in white. White is not a bad bike color. It’s a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John car color. It’s not a bad bike

⏹️ ▶️ Marco color.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this bike looks super dorky.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Which one? The Priority Coast that I ordered?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It does, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Super dorky.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This looks like a beach bike to me. It’s a beach

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bike, yes. And this company makes some… they make other varieties, these Priority bikes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they make other varieties that are almost what I want. Like the Continuum

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Onyx and the Classic Plus, Gotham Edition, like, they’re almost what I want, but they only have skinny tires.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And because, you know, they’re made for commuters and stuff. So, yeah, that’s, I’m probably not going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do that, but I don’t know. Anyway, so this could be going on with us forever, but we are in a huge hurry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because we don’t have any time tonight.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey We really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to talk about all these Apple rumors because I’m sure no one’s heard enough about them on other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey podcasts yet. Well, there’s that too. We should also mention there’s one other link in the show notes with with regard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to bikes. Huffy apparently is being eaten by Walmart. Do you want to explain this, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is actually tangential to the larger Walmart issue. A lot of stories about

⏹️ ▶️ John what has ruined bike companies involve them pivoting to sell to super

⏹️ ▶️ John stores, because that’s where all the money is, and then having to make crappier and crappier things and getting squeezed by the super stores that

⏹️ ▶️ John demand that you take smaller and smaller profit margins. But this Huffy story is actually something different. It’s where

⏹️ ▶️ John Huffy got into a deal with Walmart and didn’t realize how many bikes they’d actually sell through Walmart,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they couldn’t actually manufacture them, so they let their competitors manufacture them and sell them to Walmart and make

⏹️ ▶️ John the money from them. Anyway, Walmart is bad, and we should all feel bad. But

⏹️ ▶️ John this is another bit of feedback from Ryan Rickard, who said that Schwinn and Mongoose

⏹️ ▶️ John both pivoted to be bargain basement crap for Walmart and Target. A lot of these companies,

⏹️ ▶️ John the name remains, kind of like Atari or Commodore. the mongoose name remains but it shares

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing with the the brand of my youth uh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know

⏹️ ▶️ John everything about it the way the bikes are designed what they’re made out of what where where they’re assembled uh what

⏹️ ▶️ John their target market is everything is just you know so yeah that’s a shame uh and you can

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of tell why he’s looking at him but yeah super stores yet and yet another thing super stores have tried to ruin bicycles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry, John. It is what it is.

Follow-up: A Christmas Story

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, would you like to say face on your Christmas story line that you tried

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to quote?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the ATP references did me the favor of looking it up. It’s from IMDB

⏹️ ▶️ John and I always like here’s what it whenever I look up movie quotes a lot because I want to get them right. It’s important for me to get

⏹️ ▶️ John them right and to revalidate the correct memory because very often I have a lot of movie quotes

⏹️ ▶️ John in my head and they mutate over time as you repeat them they change a little bit and so like 15 years into

⏹️ ▶️ John quoting something you’re like super duper sure it’s one way because you’ve said it a thousand times right but it’s changed

⏹️ ▶️ John like through a game of telephone only it’s been inside your head the whole time right and so it’s changed inside your head anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John I always want to look them up but I don’t trust in the internet text of someone like oh here’s this famous quote

⏹️ ▶️ John from this movie because text is not the movie you know the the map is not the territory I need to

⏹️ ▶️ John see the video I need to see the clip from the movie and obviously I can be doctored too and

⏹️ ▶️ John I weep for our children who will be able to trust video even less than we do due to the easy ability to synthesize

⏹️ ▶️ John audio and video. Sorry kids. Anyway, that’s progress for you. Um, but according to IMDB,

⏹️ ▶️ John the upper hand, both side, the line I was trying to quote for last time from a Christmas story is the greatest

⏹️ ▶️ John Christmas gift I had ever received or ever would receive. I think I missed the hat greatest Christmas gift

⏹️ ▶️ John I had ever received or would ever receive. Anyway, there it is. Nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John cares about me, but I do care. Awesome. That should be the, That should be the title of my

⏹️ ▶️ John biography. Nobody cares about me, but I do care. The John Syracuse story. That’s perfect. Ha ha

⏹️ ▶️ John ha ha ha. 2021 SMG4

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D22 firmwarez

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey The good news is not a lot happened this week. So we can move right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey along. No, things have happened, my friends, things have happened. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me do my best job as chief summarizer in chief and kind of do a 50,000 foot summary and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then we’ll dig into the details, which inevitably means you two will interrupt me in about sentence three and I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will never get to complete my summary. But there was a HomePod

⏹️ ▶️ Casey firmware that was posted to the place one would expect HomePod firmware

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be. Do you guys say firmware or firmwares? I would say firmware is the plural.

⏹️ ▶️ John You would say firmwares like softwares?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s why

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I would say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey firmware. But for a fleeting moment there, I just thought, well, should it be firmwares? No, it shouldn’t be. Wait, isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t wares how you’re supposed to pronounce w-a-r-e-z? Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is true yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a z but that’s not what we’re talking about.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did you ever say it that way in your head growing up because I always said Juarez and you also

⏹️ ▶️ John say mauve

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Juarez

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and mauve. No no that’s a different that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a place in Mexico I think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No I definitely said wares in my head. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John definitely said wares too. This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was gonna say you should cut this but no this is worth it now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco so we gotta keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it in. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right so anyway so So wherever you would expect the HomePod firmware, singular yet plural, to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is where they found somebody had stumbled upon a firmware download. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a couple of people seem to grab onto that. Well, many people, but particularly a couple of people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seem to grab on this and start digging it apart. A friend of the show… Can you concentrate? We’re professionals.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Can you concentrate? We’re professionals.

⏹️ ▶️ John Seven second ago. Joke. Marco. Keep up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s bring it back together. Kids, bring it back together. So two people really dug into this in particular,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the two people were Steve Trout and Smith, who is a dear friend of the show,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Guillerme Rambo, who also did a lot of digging on this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so They found a lot of interesting stuff and the highlights were an image

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is for an iPhone that is code name D22 that looks like the image

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we’ve seen off and on of this supposed iPhone Pro where it seems to be an edge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to edge screen. There’s like a little notch at the top which presumably holds the speaker and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey FaceTime camera. There was some information about how apparently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there will be front facing IR camera that presumably looks to be for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey face detection and a bunch of other stuff too. But that’s kind of the quick, quick, quick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey summary. So how would we like to dig into this?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll tell you one way we do not want to dig into this is by spraying bug spray on our legs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco earlier so I could weed whack all the tick infested grass out in front of the house. And then coming inside, doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a podcast with you fine gentlemen, putting my hands on my legs and then rubbing my eyes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s not wise. Do you need a moment to collect yourself?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s slowly going away. I think I might be okay. Or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you might go blind soon.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Next

⏹️ ▶️ John time just accept the bug bites.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well there’s ticks out there. I don’t want to get tick bites. Oh God, I’m just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna, I’m gonna try not to touch my feet. I’m like, I’ll just put it on my legs. That way it won’t be a problem for the rest of the night like it is when you put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it on your whole body. Because all you really need for ticks is to put it on your feet and legs.

⏹️ ▶️ John I found one tick on me on Long Island just a couple days ago and it was not on my legs. Yikes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to hear the rest of that story.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds super ominous.

⏹️ ▶️ John It had not bitten me yet. It was still crawling, trying to find a place to bite. That’s good. I removed it with prejudice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. So what do we think of D22? So I

⏹️ ▶️ John think, well, here’s a couple things. So this, I don’t know if we want to go into the leaking

⏹️ ▶️ John things. I guess we’ll go into that at the end. But the information revealed once you leak the HomePod firmware, where

⏹️ ▶️ John people think, well, so what? Who cares they leaked the HomePod firmware? The HomePod’s not out yet. We already know what it is. It’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John speaker-turdy thing. Why would we get any information from that?

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s because it runs iOS, and iOS has a bunch of crap in it, and normally that crap is removed

⏹️ ▶️ John from builds that they release to the public, even in the betas. They remove all the stuff that they don’t want you to see. What might

⏹️ ▶️ John they not want you to see? Icons, frameworks,

⏹️ ▶️ John the names of symbols, symbols, programmery type stuff. And the people who pulled down this HomePod firmware,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, extract that stuff. They look at all the frameworks and they look at the names of the frameworks and the names of the functions

⏹️ ▶️ John and the symbols that are in them. They look at all of the resources for different kinds of icons and graphics

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff like that, that appears in dialog boxes and in the UI. And you can learn a tremendous amount

⏹️ ▶️ John without even executing any of this code, just because it happens to be iOS and this build doesn’t have all that stuff excluded

⏹️ ▶️ John from it. So we learned, learned, quote unquote, a lot of interesting things just by looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at the framework names and the symbols. And there’s the whole frameworks having to do and, you know, classes and methods having

⏹️ ▶️ John to do with things about face recognition and recognizing different kinds of faces. And

⏹️ ▶️ John why would that be in there? Well, we are all have the rumors about recognizing your face. You put two and two together and you say, that’s probably what

⏹️ ▶️ John that is down to the point where you’re looking at like attributes on classes that say like inset

⏹️ ▶️ John and border radius and stuff that sort of confirming the idea that the entire edge to edge screen will be addressable

⏹️ ▶️ John with sort of curves around the edges, you know, and classes that

⏹️ ▶️ John might indicate how they might handle the home button at the bottom of the screen and displaying things there and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John like that. So it’s kind of tea leaf reading in that we don’t have any actual leaked

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware for the phone or anything like that. What we just have is a bunch of symbols and functions. But if you’re a programmer and you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John familiar with UIKit and the rest of iOS and just programming in general, you can kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John piece together a surprisingly detailed picture of how

⏹️ ▶️ John this new phone might work based on the iOS that was released as part of the HomePod,

⏹️ ▶️ John HomePod’s OS release. And so it’s kind of a weird leak,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it just goes to show that, like anything on the internet, you don’t, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John security through obscurity is no security at all. It never has been, but in the age of the internet, even less so.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I was fascinated to see the slow leak of people pulling out all the different details of the

⏹️ ▶️ John OS to the point where there was really good blog post by Alan Pike

⏹️ ▶️ John where he puts it all together and says, based on everything that we’ve seen, here’s one way that I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the theoretical phone might work from a software perspective. So we’ve got hardware rumors,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then we’ve got a leak of the HomePod thing, and then from that synthesize this

⏹️ ▶️ John entire complete picture of one way that the OS might work. Now, it could be entirely wrong. could

⏹️ ▶️ John be, you know, something different than this, but I was pretty impressed by this. It’s a,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, just the normal parts leak that you get, plus a bunch of class dumps

⏹️ ▶️ John and icon files, and now we have like a complete iPhone Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John possible scenario supported by all the available leaked evidence that I think actually is pretty cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John If they don’t do this, I hope they do something just as cool because I read this thing, I’m like, that A,

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense, B, fits with everything that we’ve been leaked and see is pretty neat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah I completely agree. Yeah I mean like this it does like I’m not a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fan of the idea of this weird cut out into the screen with the cameras and everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I don’t I don’t like that it seems like a weird hack but if they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do it this looks like a really cool way to do it like with the the whole idea of having a split status

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar such that basically you it’s almost as if the screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not cut out it’s almost like if applications don’t really have access to that area or if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you only get it in things like over scroll areas under navigation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bars and stuff like that then it’s still weird but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a clever it’s a clever hack it’s a good question about things like where the clock

⏹️ ▶️ Marco goes and what about a stuff that won’t fit in the cutouts like there’s a lot in the status bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these days. Things like not having as much as on Android though. Well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that’s true

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. I was just about to say the same thing. Oh my goodness looking at my co-workers Android

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phones that have just a mountain of icons up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John there. It’s like a ticker tape. My sister

⏹️ ▶️ John got a new Android phone that I just saw like fresh out of the box no weird stuff on it a Samsung Android

⏹️ ▶️ John phone. It’s a hundred icons in the status bar. I may be overestimating but only slightly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s so true. It’s like a ticker tape of icons. And I think it’s I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John bad. It’s like every

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac user you’ve ever seen in your office was 100 icons in their menu bar, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, no, I have fewer than most. Thank you very much. You just are hating on the iStep menus that I have up there. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, I like the the fact if you have to install bartender, which I’m sure is a very great

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app. If you have to install bartender, you have bigger problems, my friend, then then just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey moving some of them out of your menu bar like you should just get them out into Oh, God, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hate apps that force a menu bar icon. It drives me bananas.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, so actually, I’ve derailed myself looking at the top of this notes. I there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John couple of I mean, look, looking at the symbols and everything and having face recognition symbols like that is not a big a

⏹️ ▶️ John slam dunk as people think if we didn’t already have the face recognition rumor, there’s all sorts of weird symbols on there. And maybe it wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John ship maybe it’s not ready. Like we didn’t see we didn’t see the internal builds of iOS 10. For all we know these symbols

⏹️ ▶️ John could have been in there and iOS 10. They just didn’t make the cut, you know, or something like that or whatever, right. But we have all those other rumors

⏹️ ▶️ John about being face recognition. So this, you know, it all adds up, right. The other part of this, though, is

⏹️ ▶️ John all the rumors about the little unibrow thing, little notch, the cutout, when we talk, we saw that little notch thing, I think we

⏹️ ▶️ John talked about it when we were talking about touch ID being on the back and how they’re going to do a screen thing edge to edge and what they can

⏹️ ▶️ John and can embed in the screen. And apparently they can embed like the cameras and if there’s gonna be an IR sensor and the speaker and blah, blah,

⏹️ ▶️ John blah. So this is notch. I think one of you maybe Marco thought it was the notch just doesn’t seem like an Apple Apple thing to

⏹️ ▶️ John do way back when, when we talked about it. You know, it’s not elegant. Like you just said before, like the notch seems weird, doesn’t it? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, wouldn’t it be great if the whole thing was screen? It would be, oh, but we can’t quite pull it off. So what can we

⏹️ ▶️ John do? Well, we’ll do the best we can and leave this little notch, right? And that’s always been the question. No,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple wouldn’t do it unless they could do the whole screen. They’re not gonna do a little notch thing. Kind of like people saying Apple’s not going to

⏹️ ▶️ John put a camera that causes a bulge, but they totally did because it’s more worth it to have a really good camera

⏹️ ▶️ John than to make the back of it smooth. So camera bulge is here to stay. And so in the HomePod

⏹️ ▶️ John firmware leak, there is an icon for D22 that is just, it’s not a picture of the

⏹️ ▶️ John new iPhone. It’s an icon, like a little vector drawing or whatever of the thing, but it has to look iconic. It has to

⏹️ ▶️ John let you know by looking at this little icon, this is the phone we’re talking about. So it’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ John like a rounded rectangle, I imagine for the seven and seven plus sizes, right? But this one has the

⏹️ ▶️ John notch in it. And it’s the only thing in it. It is a rounded rectangle and the only distinguishing characteristic other than the width and

⏹️ ▶️ John height and the border radius is the notch. And so this is a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John hard confirmation of that notch because they’re not waffling about whether there’s gonna be a notch at this point. This

⏹️ ▶️ John icon is in there and it doesn’t seem like they would have this thing and the code name D22 is

⏹️ ▶️ John right on what you expect it to be. So this thing’s gonna have a notch and that’s weird. And it’s like the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John bump, but even worse. It’s not as bad as Touch ID on the back, but it is a weird thing to do. And so,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, Apple, Rumors are that this all screen OLED

⏹️ ▶️ John phone has been in the works for a long time, and not that I’m saying it’s behind schedule, but I bet Apple would have loved to ship it last year,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they couldn’t, it wasn’t ready, and now it’s ready, they’re going with the notch. So for me, from this leak,

⏹️ ▶️ John the most important thing about it is, notch is a go, get ready for notch. Get ready

⏹️ ▶️ John to love the notch, get ready to deal with the notch, get ready to fix your application that gets screwed

⏹️ ▶️ John up when the notch is there. Also on our past conversation about, hey, they changed the dots to be bars,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they did that to make room for the notch. And it was like, well, maybe, but we don’t even know if there’s gonna be a notch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, there’s gonna be a notch. So, no more dots, back to bars, makes perfect sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think what I like about this leak though, is that it gives us enough to be really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interested in this, but there’s still so much that we don’t know that we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only going to know once we see the software running on the phone, which we’re probably, we’re almost certainly not going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see before the event. So, like, even though we, like, leading up to this, We had the idea

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a lot of the major themes of this device leading up for almost the last year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in all the rumors and everything. But we didn’t know many specifics and most of the things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we’d see leaked or rumored or talked about here and there would be very vague and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very unsure of themselves and oftentimes conflicting. And so now, even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though this is now like pretty strong evidence of it being a certain way and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so some of that surprise is now kind of spoiled. What we have now learned,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and again, it’s not like knowledge, it isn’t a fact, it isn’t a guarantee, it’s just very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco strong evidence in a certain direction. But what this nearly confirms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not something that was totally unknown to us. There were rumors of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all these things. There were rumors of the notch, There were rumors of the face

⏹️ ▶️ Marco detection type stuff and depth cameras and everything. All that stuff was rumored

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for months. And that was already becoming the dominant narrative of the rumors. That was becoming where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of them were kind of coalescing and gathering. So it didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually spoil much surprise. It just kind of says, all right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this group of the rumors, which was already the predominant ones, this is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the right path. But there’s still so many questions that it’s still very interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to us. And most of those questions are not going to be answered until the event.

⏹️ ▶️ John They added some information to like, again, with the symbol dumps, uh, stuff that we wouldn’t have known normally until

⏹️ ▶️ John the keynote because of software based, right? So there’s a bunch of symbols having to do with, uh, apparently the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John detecting what it is you’re taking a picture of. You’re taking a picture of a person. Is it a plant? It is a sun. Is it a sunset?

⏹️ ▶️ John Is it, you know, whatever it might be. Um, most modern regular cameras have something.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, I can tell it’s portrait versus landscape because I do simple face detection, but this was way more detailed. I’ll find a link to

⏹️ ▶️ John put all things in, but it was like figuring out in a fairly detailed manner what it is you’re looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at and what will it do with that information besides putting the word hot dog or not hot dog on the screen. Like presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John you can adjust the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco based on what it’s looking at. I get that reference.

⏹️ ▶️ John It could metadata tag them or something. I mean, who knows, but like those symbols are in there

⏹️ ▶️ John for, you know, And there’s all sorts of other stuff about face detection, or we assume about face detection,

⏹️ ▶️ John whereas the face is half covered, the face is smiling or frowning, or like,

⏹️ ▶️ John tons of symbols that only make sense if this phone, with these set of sensors on it,

⏹️ ▶️ John can figure out way more about what it’s looking at, whether it’s looking at it to take a picture, or looking at it to unlock your phone, or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. All these symbols indicate that there are surely features somewhere in

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS 11 running on this phone that are based on the camera having a much richer awareness

⏹️ ▶️ John of what’s going on around it, also including like presence detection, are you in front of the phone or whatever? So that I think

⏹️ ▶️ John added information, none of that stuff had been rumored. Like, wow, you know, we, the rumors that, oh, it’s gonna have camera and a notch

⏹️ ▶️ John and an IR sensor and face detection unlock, that’s all the stuff that would leak. But the keynote would be like, oh, and

⏹️ ▶️ John also now that we have all those sensors, you know what we can do? We can know when you’re taking a picture of

⏹️ ▶️ John a dog and tag it with dog and make the smart search easier

⏹️ ▶️ John when you search for dog, even if you took a picture of the tip of the dog’s tail, we, you know, we figured that out. And like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, like features like that are things normally we don’t get to see until the day of. So I think this is one of the biggest

⏹️ ▶️ John software leaks that has ever happened to Apple, because I think it reveals potentially

⏹️ ▶️ John so much about stuff that they’re gonna demo that they just assume no one would know about. Because in general, the software

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t leak. This, I mean, this is, this is, we get into the leak stuff. This is a pretty big

⏹️ ▶️ John leak in terms of just, oops, like we didn’t mean to put this bill there. By

⏹️ ▶️ John the way, if you’re wondering why, why is this bill accessible at all? Home pods have been testing on

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple employees and other people who are in the know have been testing home pods for a long time and they have a

⏹️ ▶️ John feed for software updates, but that is a fee that is not accessible to the general public, it’s only accessible to Apple employees,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Someone made a mistake and took the firmware that’s supposed to go in that feed

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s only accessible to Apple employees and put it on the public facing one. And that is a pretty big mistake.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s kind of like taking, you know, I don’t know, like, uh, iOS 11 or

⏹️ ▶️ John before any of the betas came out and putting it on a publicly accessible URL on the internet. And again,

⏹️ ▶️ John if the security through obscurity, it’s like, well, you put something on a URL that’s accessible to the internet. As long as no one

⏹️ ▶️ John knows the URL, it’s not like people are randomly typing in URLs to guess where your thing might be. That’s exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re doing. And the URL was guessable because you just replaced the word TV with the word audio in

⏹️ ▶️ John an existing URL for the TVOS updates. And guess what? You got this and

⏹️ ▶️ John somebody had a really bad day at Apple. And I feel bad because you know, you’re human, you make mistakes.

⏹️ ▶️ John It just goes to show all the security and all these billions of dollars they spend. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think this is malicious, just someone made a mistake. We all make mistakes. Sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John you leave a phone in a bar. Sometimes you upload the

⏹️ ▶️ John unredacted version of the new iOS that includes all the secret symbols for your new super secret

⏹️ ▶️ John phone onto a public URL. And so I feel kind of bad, but I’m also kind of excited

⏹️ ▶️ John about exactly how much we were able to mine out of this. And like Margo said, and still,

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re not sure. Still, we have to wait for the keynote to see which things are which. It’s a little bit of

⏹️ ▶️ John spoiling Christmas mornings, to know how, you know, because I can extrapolate so many things that could possibly be there. And the

⏹️ ▶️ John keynote will just be a narrowing, but still pretty exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t have the link handy, but there, maybe it was Allen’s, I don’t think it was though. But anyways, there was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey someone who was critiquing, no it was a different UI designer, critiquing what do you do with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notch? And there’s like, one of the approaches is you pretend the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notch isn’t really there. And one of the approaches is you embrace the notch. And I think it was Steve Troutman Smith

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was saying, oh, I say embrace the notch, you know, make it visible, make it plain. But from what I see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on like, for example, Allen’s post where it’s just a big black bar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and presumably this is OLED so it would just kind of all blend in and there would just be this big gap

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the center of the black bar but you wouldn’t necessarily be able to tell very well what was there. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think I like that at a glance more than this like embrace the notch, make it white to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey left and the right of the notch. What do you guys think about that? Let’s start with Marco. Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tullio Totally with you. I think the design that makes the parts left and right of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco notch just black and makes it look like a big status

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John bar, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me is by far the best looking option here. And that is the one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they should and hopefully will do. But there is a risk,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if it’s a big risk, there’s a risk that the desire to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have these overflow areas, these over scroll areas in the UI. So I wonder how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, when I was seven, ever since I was seven, you’ve had like, if you have like a navigation bar or a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco toolbar in an interface, you have like the blurred version of the scroll view

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the middle, kind of underhanging the top and bottom, like it kind of overflows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into those areas as you scroll. I can see maybe the Apple UI designers wanting to do more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that with this newfound screen real estate and to have these new areas,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both the little tabs next to the status bar and also the new like presumed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home button area at the bottom. I could see those becoming just over scroll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco areas, but I hope they don’t do that. I hope if anything, if they want to do that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just make it the bottom one and not little tabs on top because having this big like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, file card shaped UI, I think looks weird. I don’t like having those two tabs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the top be visibly like light colored UI. I think it should just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look like a big status bar and you shouldn’t even really really really think about the notch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the Time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I agree.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I think it was Steve Trout and Smith pointed this out, but I think people know this as well

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing that we extracted we the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John has been extracted by Industrious hackers from the firmware is an icon of the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone and it’s supposed to be identifiable So you look at that, you know, oh they’re talking about whatever the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John pro or the iPhone 8 or whatever this thing’s going to be called. So it needs to be a recognizable symbol

⏹️ ▶️ John at small sizes. And the only distinguishing fixture of that icon is the notch. So

⏹️ ▶️ John for in order for people to look at that and say, Oh, that means my phone, which is the purpose of the icon.

⏹️ ▶️ John That notch has to be a distinguishing visible, visual characteristics of the phone as far as the

⏹️ ▶️ John users are concerned. Otherwise, that icon is not useful for identifying. So that could be as simple

⏹️ ▶️ John as okay, well, it works exactly like you guys were just describing when you use it like it, we pretend it’s not there

⏹️ ▶️ John and just like the status bar. But the lock screen, for example, when we show your big lock screen picture, that

⏹️ ▶️ John shows with the notch all the time, because that would make you know, that’s your first experience of turning on the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, or seeing the lock screen or whatever that oh, it’s got a notch, right? If the notch goes away, when you launch apps,

⏹️ ▶️ John you still recognize it as the phone with the notch, because that’s what you see when you first turn it on. But I think at the very

⏹️ ▶️ John least, Apple is embracing the notch to the degree to the degree

⏹️ ▶️ John that this icon is representative. It doesn’t mean you’re gonna see it the whole time you’re using it inside applications,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it does mean that they’re embracing it somewhere. Probably in the lock screen,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe also in springboard, maybe also, I mean, I’m trying to think of,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if developers wanted to, could they address it and show video in the notch, like overflow

⏹️ ▶️ John video, like who knows how far developers would be able to go, but it seems clear to me that Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ John in the same way they essentially embrace the camera bump by saying we’re not hiding it, it’s there, It’s a camera bump,

⏹️ ▶️ John look at it. There’s gonna be a notch, and I think there has to be at least some context where the notch

⏹️ ▶️ John is absolutely visible and a distinguishing characteristic to people.

⏹️ ▶️ John I also would prefer, like both of you, all right, fine, I see the notch, I get your branding,

⏹️ ▶️ John I can identify my phone, but once I’m using the application, it doesn’t need to be emphasized.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can make it disappear with a nice status bar. Hopefully that’s up to developers. If developers wanna do something fancy with the notch,

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they can, and the same way that you can mess with the status bar in weird ways to varying degrees in old OSes. Couldn’t you

⏹️ ▶️ John change the color of the status bar to anything you wanted back in the old days and then kind of clamp down on that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, you could never, you could have it be like white or black but you could never have it be arbitrary colors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You could have a translucent one and kind of put like a window behind it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make it kind of fake, to kind of fake it but I don’t know of any apps that really ever did that with any success.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and I actually, you know, either way they go with this, I think the bottom part of the screen is actually

⏹️ ▶️ John more interesting, that gets into what Alan Pike was talking about. So the top fine, we assume it’s a status bar. And there’s some

⏹️ ▶️ John interesting things you can do by, you know, getting, you know, going bleeding

⏹️ ▶️ John the pixels up higher on the screen, because it’s almost edge to edge, especially if you incorporate the notch into the status bar.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the action happens down at the bottom, where all of a sudden, you’ve got all the screen where there used to be a hardware home button. And of course, you can

⏹️ ▶️ John draw a software home button there. But you’ve got all this other space where you can draw things to what might you use that for. One of

⏹️ ▶️ John Alan Pike’s suggestions, take your UI nav bar, whatever that class is called, and

⏹️ ▶️ John take the current awkward arrangement with lots of white space, and take those navigation controls

⏹️ ▶️ John like done or edit or whatever those little words that are up in the corner that are hard to reach on your big phone, and shove

⏹️ ▶️ John them down next to the home button, because now that’s all a screen, and it’s actually easier to reach.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s been a lot of articles recently about how it’s easier to reach the bottom of your really big phone with your thumb than the top of

⏹️ ▶️ John the really big phone, so bottom navigation becomes more preferable than it was back

⏹️ ▶️ John in the days of the original iPhone size or even the five size. And it makes

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of sense. Like whether they do that or not, you look at that and you go, oh, okay, well, that would work.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it would make sense based on the design we currently see in iOS 11 betas.

⏹️ ▶️ John But maybe they won’t do that. Maybe, what can you do with the bottom thing? You’ve got a lot of pixels down there. Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John surely gonna reserve some of them for OS related functions in the sort of the default

⏹️ ▶️ John case where you don’t want to go full bleed video or whatever. You could

⏹️ ▶️ John do interesting stuff down there instead of just showing a circle where you put your thumb, presumably to use the

⏹️ ▶️ John Touch ID sensor that may or may not be buried under the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s funny because I feel like we have learned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot in this leak, but I think you guys are right that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know that we’ve learned all that much, but we’ve more gotten some soft

⏹️ ▶️ Casey confirmation of a lot of the things that were already suspected. And though I still think this is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey second biggest leak that I’ve ever witnessed as compared to the, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was it, the iPhone 4 that was found in the bar? Yep. So I think that still takes the cake for the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey biggest leak, but man, this is a close second. And it’s fascinating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like I feel kind of bad for the Apple developers, like the developers within

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple that have been working on this stuff and have been really sweating this and were hoping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the big splash surprise. Like that article was, I think it was that article that floated around like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a month ago that talked about this. But anyway, or maybe it was on the talk show live. Maybe that’s what it was. It doesn’t matter. Somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were saying, you know, really, it’s a bummer for the employees when something leaks, the other employees. And that kind of stinks,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I do think it is fascinating and super cool how a couple of developers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in particular have been able to kind of figure out all of this stuff just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by going spelunking into the firmware. And I should have expected something like this from a man with the surname

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Rambo. I mean, this is how the Rambos work, right? That’s what we learned from the movies.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, I didn’t catch this before on our discussion of firmware, but it’s interesting to me that with HomePod, we reverted to the

⏹️ ▶️ John old nomenclature because back on the original iPhone, the iPhone came with firmware because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a phone. Phones don’t run OSes, silly. It’s firmware, right? I’m obviously that’s before

⏹️ ▶️ John you know it was called iPhone OS after that I believe and then it switched iOS

⏹️ ▶️ John right but now I’m on the home pod because it’s so wussy and doesn’t have a screen even though

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve extracted a screen resolution as far as iOS is concerned a very small screen resolution

⏹️ ▶️ John and potentially a number of addressable LEDs blah blah anyway now it’s back to firmware

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like it’s called you know the reason I got this in the URLs they changed tvOS to audioOS.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you wanna give it a name, tvOS runs on Apple TV, iOS runs on iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ John and iPods and iPads, and audioOS

⏹️ ▶️ John runs on the HomePod, but we don’t call it audioOS, it’s still, it’s stuck in firmware, I guess you still gotta start

⏹️ ▶️ John in firmware and work your way up till we start referring you to your actual OS update.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s a little bit weird. I guess they wanna make it seem like an embedded thing. It’s also, in case you were wondering

⏹️ ▶️ John about the Amazon Echo Show

⏹️ ▶️ John and the potential, we discussed many times, of Apple’s home thing that sits in

⏹️ ▶️ John your home having a screen on it. Naming the thing Audio OS, obviously that’s nothing peculiar. You can

⏹️ ▶️ John rename it whenever you want. They rename their OS’s all the time. But it’s a pretty strong stake in the ground for this product. This product,

⏹️ ▶️ John we already knew, but in case you were wondering, do they expect the operating system to do a lot of displaying

⏹️ ▶️ John of pictures? No.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco OS.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like whether or not it has a screen that can show weird symbols or an addressable grid of LEDs

⏹️ ▶️ John under a diffuser or whatever, the OS is all about audio.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Any other thoughts about all this? Not really.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sure, there’s stuff that I forgot to put in the notes, but there was so much stuff that was leaked and so many

⏹️ ▶️ John people digging into this that I just couldn’t even keep up with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I feel like this should be like a four-hour conversation for us, but I really feel like we’ve kind of touched

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on all of it. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well, and also like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, as Mark said before, everything that’s in this leak had been discussed before with the exception

⏹️ ▶️ John of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco few

⏹️ ▶️ John additional symbols that lean towards features that hadn’t been, you know, that could have been imagined, but that hadn’t been thought about, you know, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the camera and understanding what it’s taking a picture of and adjusting things, but you can extrapolate that from the sensors. And it just shows

⏹️ ▶️ John how imagination plus the usual hardware supply chain leaks

⏹️ ▶️ John can get us most of the way there anyway. OLED, we’ve known forever. edge to edge, we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John also known forever. Face detection was was a big leak.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then IR sensors and stuff like that and how to support it. Touch ID in the screen versus the back is

⏹️ ▶️ John still up in the air. Nothing in this goes one way or the other, I think. And then the HomePod

⏹️ ▶️ John leak would just nail all that down for us. But we were already talking about all those things. It’s like, Oh, I feel bad for the employees, blah, blah, blah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, if this leak had not happened, we’d all be watching that keynote saying I can’t wait to see the old phone

⏹️ ▶️ John that does face recognition with an edge to edge screen, potentially with a notch in it. Like we were already there.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just, you know, it’s just confirming stuff where, you know, it’s, it continues to be hard

⏹️ ▶️ John for Apple to be secretive about something that it’s going to build literally millions of, like months

⏹️ ▶️ John ahead of time. Like someone’s going to build them, human beings are going to build them. And this information has value

⏹️ ▶️ John to many different parties, the least of which is a bunch of Apple nerds. Like it has value to like people who are designing

⏹️ ▶️ John cases or making clones or competitive. Like It’s really

⏹️ ▶️ John hard to keep this kind of secret and Apple continues to prove that. No

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco matter how much money you have, no matter how

⏹️ ▶️ John careful you are, we’re going to find out about your phone. Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro is going to be pretty secret though, let me tell you. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey What do you have, John, about this nickname that Gruber reported?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The Ferrari nickname?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, iPhone D22’s nickname may have been Ferrari.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yeah. That makes perfect sense because we’ve all been talking about this phone

⏹️ ▶️ John in that kind of way as they’re gonna make phones like the 7 and the 7 Plus and

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re gonna be fine phones and those are the normal ones, but then there’s the fancy one. The fancy one is, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John edge to edge screen and made of exotic materials and gonna be more expensive and, you know, Ferrari’s the perfect name for it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, it’s not the phone that everybody’s gonna have. And a lot of the stories and a lot of groupers writing about it has been

⏹️ ▶️ John about how, A, this will be phone will be more expensive because duh, why make it the same

⏹️ ▶️ John price as the other ones? It’s called, you know, you’re gonna segment the market, like good, better, best or whatever. And B,

⏹️ ▶️ John how they probably can’t make as many of these. Like if this was the only iPhone that potentially they wouldn’t be

⏹️ ▶️ John able to make as many of them because one or more parts in it are not able to be manufactured in volume.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the meta point about the Ferrari phone is like, if Apple can

⏹️ ▶️ John only ever put technology in its phones that it can make 60 million of, like for launch day or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s going to be at a disadvantage against competitors that only have to make like 2 million phones. You can make 2 million phones. You’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I just need 2 million of this special awesome screen. And Apple’s like, oh, that screen is awesome. We’d love to put that

⏹️ ▶️ John screen in our phone. Sorry, we can only make 2 million of those. and Apple’s like, well, we need 60 million. Well, we can’t make them any of

⏹️ ▶️ John that screen. So you can’t put that screen in your phone. So this gives them, in addition to segmenting the market, like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John you want to pay even more for an iPhone? Apple is happy to accommodate you. Yay. What can we put in this

⏹️ ▶️ John phone that’s worth the extra money? Well, we can make it look cooler. We can have fancy features like the face detection

⏹️ ▶️ John and the edge-to-edge screen. And we can put components in it that we can only make $12 million of

⏹️ ▶️ John or $15 million of instead of $60 million. I’m making these numbers up, but whatever. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the Ferrari name fits with that. Ferraris, cars that cost more than other cars, they make fewer of them,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re really fancy. So, and Eddy Cue is on the board of Ferrari, so everything fits.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It all works. All right, so no more thoughts on this leak.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel bad for the responsible party, though. My goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t tell if my water smells like deet or if my hands smell like deet that are handling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the

⏹️ ▶️ John water. Stop eating bug spray, Marco. It’s gonna affect the show eventually. I

⏹️ ▶️ John can tell when Marco’s drinking and I can tell when he’s eating bug spray.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He is high as a kite.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been in the sun a lot today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fly away, Marco.

No more iPods

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, there’s no more iPods except the iPod touch,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John which could be only one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s Highlander John. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco a highlander.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it went over my head. At least don’t worry. I’m still okay. I didn’t get a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John reference.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, can’t get there can be only one. This is a new low folks.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco What is

⏹️ ▶️ John the most well known reference that Marco will not get Highlander is now there can be only one is

⏹️ ▶️ John now in the lead. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, if you’re talking about like, popular things that I haven’t seen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got to go probably Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter, or maybe Star Trek.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you but no, but this is different. Like, you don’t expect you to have seen Highlander. We’re not crazy here. But but

⏹️ ▶️ John to know that that is a that is a reference to Highlander, like it’s a very popular Internet meme

⏹️ ▶️ John reused many, many times. You don’t have to have ever seen the movie to know that that anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think that’s the top of the leaderboard now because I would say that is pretty well known.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, no more iPods. Sometimes I forget they still make them.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco They still make them. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel like that’s the best time for Apple to discontinue a product quietly like this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is when half people who hear the news say, oh, they still made those? Yeah. That probably is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good indicator that they killed it at an appropriate time. It was not too soon. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might have been too late, but it was not too soon. And yeah, I mean, this is, if anything,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is, I mean, first of all, yeah, probably long overdue. But second of all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this might help usher in the post iTunes era. Because one of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco biggest reasons that iTunes has to keep existing is because it’s the only way to sync music onto iPods.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So maybe this will help that. I don’t know. I mean, I know this is up there with like the Mac App Store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rewrite as incredibly unlikely predictions I’ve made recently, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know that they if they’re going to do it, they have to lay the groundwork to finally like fix

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash replace iTunes. And one of the biggest ways to do that is, first of all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get rid of the need for it to ever run on Windows. And then second of all, get rid of the need for it to sync iPods. And like if you can do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those things, which are related, you can clear out a lot of the need for it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hold on to all this old cruft.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was a leak related to that, actually. I think it was actually a Mac OS leak, some sort of thing in Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John OS that was like, oh, you know, quick looking on a video or something was like open this in

⏹️ ▶️ John movies or something like that instead of open in iTunes, right? It was like a string for a dollar

⏹️ ▶️ John box thing that opened it in one of Apple’s incredibly boringly named applications like there’s no more iTunes now we

⏹️ ▶️ John have an application called movies and an application called podcasts and an application called music and that

⏹️ ▶️ John is totally what Apple would do because they’re super boring names anyway um that’s coming we all know

⏹️ ▶️ John something like that is coming and you’re right getting rid of the iPods does does help it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if they don’t use those boring names what if they pull a planet of the apps and they call

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every single one of the new apps Apple Music

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah that would make just as much sense as as TV shows on Apple Music. Well, they did call it Audio

⏹️ ▶️ John OS too. They always have to have, every time they solve, quote unquote, solve a naming problem by like aligning the

⏹️ ▶️ John stupid capitalization of all their OSs to be worse, uniformly worse, then they make a new crisis of naming,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is like, you know, Audio OS and Apple Music with TV shows on it. But they’ll sort it out, yeah. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what the timeline is on those things. Seems like a lot to bite off, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m, you know, even though it is totally fine to get rid of the iPods like their time has come,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are still people who miss things about them. And you know, not that I miss the products specifically,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I miss Apple being in that market. So what kind of market are we talking about? Well, a lot of people have been

⏹️ ▶️ John writing about missing the shuffle, because it’s just so darn small. And some people don’t want to strap a phone to them.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they’re like, oh, I just get an Apple Watch. That’s the, the watch is the new shuffle, right? You don’t, you know, you just wear your watch and

⏹️ ▶️ John it does so much more than the shuffle does. The shuffle is kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John being in some of the same markets as Fitbit and make an incredibly cheap thing that you don’t mind

⏹️ ▶️ John too much when you put it through the washing machine and does one simple thing well. Now that hasn’t been the shuffle a long time. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John done one simple thing, not really well, because getting music on it was super pain, but imagine something

⏹️ ▶️ John that was similar form factor and price to the iPod shuffle,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that you never needed to connect to iTunes. Like they did everything wirelessly and it synced with all your music. And you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like people would buy that for 50 bucks. Apple doesn’t want to be in the market to sell you that little

⏹️ ▶️ John turd for 50 bucks. Like they stayed in it a lot longer than anyone thought they would who knows how cheaply

⏹️ ▶️ John they can manufacture those things now But it’s kind of a shame that Apple doesn’t want to go that far

⏹️ ▶️ John down They just want to sell you glass rectangles of varying sizes the smallest one They’re gonna make so far is

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be on your watch and it’s probably great for everybody But the Apple watch is not the same market

⏹️ ▶️ John as the $50 Piece of crap electronic thing that you just clip on to your clothes that is you know incredibly lightweight

⏹️ ▶️ John and that has access to all of your music like effortlessly So I hope to see

⏹️ ▶️ John like the return of the shuffle like if Apple if the Apple watch continues to be successful five years from now or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John Either the watch gets super cheap and travels down to that segment or some other you know

⏹️ ▶️ John Some other things some other sort of you can find it in a box of cereal Incredibly cheap

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t really worry about it too much But also incredibly light and also empowered by Apple’s sort of ecosystem

⏹️ ▶️ John like all the stuff they have all your podcasts or music and you know all the cloud stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, they’re talking about adding cellular to the Apple Watch, which we talked about many years ago as an inevitability.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, a tiny iPod shuffle that has access to your entire library of music and podcasts. It also

⏹️ ▶️ John has cell access that costs 50 bucks. Like, I would love that product in 10, 15 years.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I hope not that the iPod comes back, but that form factor come back and that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t resign, doesn’t continue to travel up market without remembering that it can also extend down

⏹️ ▶️ John market as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think ultimately the biggest problem and probably the reason why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was killed and why this doesn’t exist, yeah, Hops is crying outside my door, let me let him

⏹️ ▶️ John in, hold on. So I had a tough love, I fervorized my dog, he’s whining out there, she’s whining out there and you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John just wait it out, eventually she’ll…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, hold on, let me put him in airplane mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What does that even mean? Taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off his collar so when he shakes it’s quiet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my god. I want to make fun of you so badly for that, but that is genius.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so I think one of the reasons why they killed the iPods now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and why I think John, your hope for a shuffle is totally futile is that…

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s been like 15 years. Come on, cut me a break here. I feel like I’m having to come back tomorrow.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, I have owned shuffles. My first two iPods

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were shuffles and I was not as big of a fan as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you are of them. I think the big problem now and one of the reasons why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they could probably do this now and kill all the iPods now is that I think it’s easy for people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like us, basically old computer nerds, to overestimate how many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people actually still maintain their own music collections. These days streaming is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so popular, it is the default of what everyone does. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many people either never built up a music collection or have abandoned it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years ago for streaming services. I think the whole idea of a music player

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you sync a collection of DRM-free locally stored files,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you sync those onto this music player and bring it with you somewhere, I think that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole idea has had its day and it’s done. And I don’t think it’s coming back.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not related to the form factor. I said it would have to have cell access and have access to the cloud stuff. That includes Apple Music,

⏹️ ▶️ John that includes Spotify.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then that’s a cellular Apple Watch, basically. And they might be allegedly making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that. Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s not a watch. It’s not a watch and it’s not gonna be $300, like a $50 thing. Then it’s a phone. That you can connect to all

⏹️ ▶️ John your cloud stuff to and your podcasts, which aren’t the same as, you could stream your podcast,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s fine, but you still have to know what podcast you subscribe to anyway. all the existing cloud stuff, the existing cloud stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John is Apple music, you know, iTunes match, your iCloud music library, your

⏹️ ▶️ John podcasts, Spotify, everything like that, all those ecosystems. Even if it

⏹️ ▶️ John just did like, okay, like the watch does now like, well, the watch can’t get there by itself, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it can go on Wi Fi, and it can talk to your phone or whatever. They the

⏹️ ▶️ John whole point is they don’t want to sell something that’s 50 bucks that you can listen to the music and podcasts on, regardless of how

⏹️ ▶️ John you do it, because they just they’re, you know, you can’t technologically do what I’m describing right now, because it would cost more than 50

⏹️ ▶️ John bucks. And the $50 thing they have now sucks, because it’s so hard to get the music onto it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s so hard to use, right. So I’m just hoping they come back to that when technology catches up. I hope they don’t say, Well, you

⏹️ ▶️ John got to buy a watch and the watch always starts at 199. Like it never goes below that, because you know, Apple and prices that just keep

⏹️ ▶️ John going up market, I hope, hope they extend back down, because it’s kind like the iPod accidentally ended up 50

⏹️ ▶️ John bucks or whatever the shuffles were because the first shuffle was what 99 or something like that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and it’s just 120 just so happenacity I think

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah it’d be like in a rare case of it becoming cheaper cheaper to make this type of thing it just so happened that the

⏹️ ▶️ John price dropped down and people didn’t care about it you know it’s one of those cases where even Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t fight against the fact that this thing was incredibly cheap to make I wonder how much the shuffle that they were

⏹️ ▶️ John selling for whatever they were selling for actually cost them to manufacture the margins were probably big but they probably sold none of them so who cares

⏹️ ▶️ John but that that’s what’s happening with all electronics that’s why the watch is gonna get cellular because eventually you can do that

⏹️ ▶️ John that fits in that form factor and in that price that will eventually happen for

⏹️ ▶️ John something like a shuffle and so I hope when that does happen that Apple revisits that

⏹️ ▶️ John especially as they expand out their ecosystem like they’re doing it with the phone diversifying the phone to make a big one a small another gonna make

⏹️ ▶️ John a big one a small one and a medium expensive one like there’s always room Like they always said they’re not gonna leave a price

⏹️ ▶️ John umbrella. It’s just that Apple loves to Go upwards like oh we can make it even more expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John phone. Let’s make it bigger and add 100 bucks Let’s make it all glass and another hundred bucks. Like that’s this totally Apple way to

⏹️ ▶️ John do and that’s great They should do that. They should also make a really expensive Mac Pro that will all potentially buy But the

⏹️ ▶️ John other direction like don’t just accidentally land there revisited and you know

⏹️ ▶️ John and and in many years when you can make the shuffle that I was describing because I I think

⏹️ ▶️ John they can sell a lot of those things, enough to make it worth their while,

⏹️ ▶️ John and people do like them. They don’t like the old Shuffle, because now it’s outdated, but if they made a new

⏹️ ▶️ John one that did all that stuff, a lot of people would buy them. And I say this mostly because I see people with Fitbits, which Fitbits would do almost

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing, and are junky, and people put through the wash all the time, but I see a ton of them. So I think there

⏹️ ▶️ John is a market for so cheap you don’t worry about it too much,

⏹️ ▶️ John wearables that do something useful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there is in general, but I think there’s a lot more of that in the fitness community than there is in the audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco playback market. Like, you know, I think when you’re looking at just having a small audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco player, the shuffle did make sense for a while as a thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is in the lineup. Again, I will stand by the fact that it was never good, but it was it made sense to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exist and sell and it was fine for certain uses. But now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re starting from a place where by default you assume everyone has a phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then what you’re saying is basically like the case that a shuffle would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to make is not I need something that can play music on the go. Because your phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that thing and you already have that. So that’s effectively free for you. There’s no additional cost for you to have music on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the go. You already have that with your phone. And so now it’s, well, if you want to buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something else, something smaller that you can clip onto your body, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because of certain types of workouts that you do, like running where you don’t want to strap a phone to you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something like that, well then their answer is the watch. Then their answer is, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re doing these things, we already have something small that can play music and clip to your body. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better than anything, it’s better than any shuffle ever made because you don’t have to clip

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it to some part of your clothing, you can strap it on your wrist in a location that people are totally fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wearing things most of the time. And it doesn’t, you don’t, there’s no wires, you can’t plug a wire into it even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you wanted to. So you don’t have a headphone wire that you have to route somewhere along your arm or strap it down or through your shirt or anything like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. You could just use Bluetooth. Oh, you’d have to work with the AirPods. Right, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so… But the shuffle would do that too. Yes, but if you’re saying like Apple should sell a small, inexpensive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wearable device you can sync music to in a modern way that can run modern apps and monitoring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco services and can stream things to Bluetooth that’s smaller than a phone. They do it’s called the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t think it’s ever going to get down to 50 bucks. I already

⏹️ ▶️ John said that I said like they could if the way they can get to that market is by making a $50 Apple Watch, that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if they never want the Apple Watch to go down to 50 bucks, what I’m saying is there’s still a place for them to put something like that if they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John put it this way if they don’t do it and a Fitbit is still in business Fitbit will make this because Fitbit already sells you something

⏹️ ▶️ John that is small, lightweight, cheap, that does less than an Apple Watch, and eventually

⏹️ ▶️ John if they can sell something at that price and Apple doesn’t, then Fitbit

⏹️ ▶️ John will. In the same way that Fitbit will sell a thing that counts your steps that’s much cheaper than an Apple Watch, and Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John thus far can’t make an Apple Watch that’s cheap because it’s too complicated, right? So they could, you know, I’m just saying like don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t leave this market out. And I’m saying not to do it with the watch because thus far Apple has made the watch

⏹️ ▶️ John to be not upscale like the edition days are behind us but

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re still making the ceramic ones and they’re all about fashion and and fanciness it

⏹️ ▶️ John seems to me that there is less of an appetite to bring the Apple watch down to 50 bucks even if they can technically so

⏹️ ▶️ John that leaves the room for if they don’t want to do that and if they don’t want Fitbit to sell that thing leaves

⏹️ ▶️ John room to bring back something like the shuffle in the future that is essentially a disembodied Apple watch without

⏹️ ▶️ John a strap and maybe without a screen on it even if you want to make it super cheap. I

⏹️ ▶️ John think we can all agree though that no one is crying for the iPod Nano because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that is a product without a home.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that was so good for so long, but that time has long passed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, my first Apple products, if memory serves, were the original iPod Shuffle that looked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like a stick of gum or pack of gum, I guess I should say. And then following that an iPod nano,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, the one that was really easy to scratch the back of. And I think there was like a class action lawsuit or something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Scratch the front, not the back. The

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey front

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the front.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Okay. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. Well, either way. Um, uh, those were my first two Apple products. So. I think I have a similar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reaction to everyone or a lot of people, which is, well, that, that kind of sucks, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no, actually it doesn’t because who’s really buying these anymore anyway. So yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they, uh, also, did we already, did we already mention that they, uh, Capacity bumped the iPod touch as well, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yeah, nobody cares

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it’s not you what it seems. I know

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah Well, no, they you know is the more son I have iPhone SE users now They iPod

⏹️ ▶️ John touch has been so left behind That’s why I had to leave it like it was just well You know getting a phone because I was gonna get a phone But like

⏹️ ▶️ John they you know updated in forever and in the yeah They they bump the capacities but left the price is the same But it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ John overpriced like the problem like it’s not it’s not super expensive, but

⏹️ ▶️ John for what’s in it But I find it hard to recommend that product. I suppose if you want to get something

⏹️ ▶️ John for your kid and it’s still cheaper than an iPad, but I find it

⏹️ ▶️ John really hard to recommend that product at the current price and capabilities. If they

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want to can the iPod Touch, which apparently they don’t want to do because they could have just canned

⏹️ ▶️ John it now, they need to get it on a slightly better upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ John cycle. I guess they’re not motivated to do that because you know it’s it’s a it’s like the Mac Mini of the iOS

⏹️ ▶️ John line It’s like well It’s a product exist in our lineup and people do buy it and it fills a role But

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re not killing ourselves to make a new one so it’s got what it’s got the a8 in it now Like when the a12

⏹️ ▶️ John is out can we update the iPod touch

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco again? Oh, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know capacity bump like come on. I just if you’re gonna have it. Maybe updated every once in a while That’s all

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s also interesting like how it fits now in the lineup you know first so you have the iPod touch at what 200 bucks even Is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the base? Yeah, I think so. Then you have at $329 the new cheap iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Seems like you’re getting way more. Exactly. You get way more with the iPad. And then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at $400 you have the iPhone SE. Which if you still want a small device, that is, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting way more for the iPhone SE than you are with an iPod Touch at $200. Now granted, I’ve now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doubled the price. But like, I feel like any discussion of what the iPod Touch should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or shouldn’t have or should it shouldn’t be updated or how it should be priced has to also then consider

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how it fits in with these other low end, inexpensive iOS devices.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, it is kind of, you know, people say like, Oh, the real iPods are on the iPod Touch was never really an iPod. It was an iPod

⏹️ ▶️ John name only. But now it is, it’s actually filling the role of the iPod because

⏹️ ▶️ John why in the world would like so you’re going to get a kid, you know, it’s got a kid so they’re not gonna have a phone you don’t want to this kid doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a cell number. This kid is six years old, right? You want to get them an iOS device. gonna get that kid the iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Unless what the kid actually wants is a music player,

⏹️ ▶️ John because the iPad is not a great music player to carry around with you at school or whatever. Like say the kid is, you know, 11 or 12

⏹️ ▶️ John and maybe doesn’t have a phone yet, right? Or the parents don’t want to pay for a cell data plan. So iPhone, any kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of iPhone is out because they’re not paying for a cell data plan. It’s a waste to buy an iPhone and pay that extra expense for something that’s not gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John be a phone. But a kid would still rather have an iPad to watch YouTube on and stuff too,

⏹️ ▶️ John unless they want to carry it around at school and listen to music or whatever, they might run with it or

⏹️ ▶️ John take it with them to camp or whatever. It’s a music player. It’s the only advantage it has is

⏹️ ▶️ John its small size. Everything else about it is a disadvantage. Like, as the price is too close to the cheap iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s really slow, the storage capacity, so it’s kind of weird that the iPod Touch is now

⏹️ ▶️ John actually living up to its iPod name because it’s literal only reason for existence in any

⏹️ ▶️ John sensible thing is to fill the role of a non-phone thing that you can also get

⏹️ ▶️ John access to all of your, you know, and I suppose text messages if you have wifi,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it is more iPod-like than it has ever been before, which is kind of depressing because it, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John as I pointed out many times, was once the fastest iPhone OS device you could buy for a brief moment in time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Those days are long gone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was John’s favorite brief moment in time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also, I feel like a part of the, probably a big part of the market for the iPod Touch, in addition to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being eaten alive by the low-end iPad, has probably also been eaten alive by the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco increasing numbers of people who just give old iPhones to kids.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I now know a bunch of parents of young children in like that age range where like, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could have an iOS device, but you don’t wanna give them a good one. And I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any of them that have an iPod Touch. They’re all using their parents’ old iPhones. It’s you know, like iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 4S’s and stuff like that, like that of that age range, or maybe an iPhone 5. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re all using those. And so like, granted, not everybody keeps their old devices. A lot of people trade them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in or sell them to help fund the new ones. But I’ve had a lot of people who have children of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this age range, they just give them what they already have in a drawer somewhere,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is a few years old iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, maybe it’s a little bit cheaper. I’m trying to think of why didn’t we do that with all our kids. I mean, from the beginning it was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because I had my old iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I had the old iPod Touches on them, But we actually did buy two brand new iPod Touches.

⏹️ ▶️ John When we ran out of my old supply of iPod Touches, but the kids still wanted something that was better and faster,

⏹️ ▶️ John my old iPod Touches were too crappy for them, which they really were at that point. We had the choice. We could have said, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John why don’t we take the old iPhone 4S and give it to one of the kids? Or we could just buy

⏹️ ▶️ John a brand new iPod Touch. And we ended up buying a new iPod Touch. Twice

⏹️ ▶️ John we did that for a variety of reasons. Because it was cheap, because it’s new, the battery will be fresh,

⏹️ ▶️ John all the kind of reasons you know that you might. So it’s for us when we had access to both of

⏹️ ▶️ John them, you know, we could have gone either way on it. So I don’t think it’s always a slam dunk. But you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it depends on it depends on how often you upgrade your phones. If you upgrade your phone every year, you have a much greater supply

⏹️ ▶️ John of reasonable ish iPhones to go through some also some people might want to resell their iPhones. Like if you do upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ John every year, you can get some good money for reselling your iPhone and maybe that makes up the cost of the

⏹️ ▶️ John iPod touch. Anyway, I’m sure they’re not selling too many of these but they don’t break that out for us but

⏹️ ▶️ John they did keep it around just like the Mac Mini so we’ll keep our eye on it iPod Touch Death Watch begins

⏹️ ▶️ John now.

No more Flash

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my goodness. And speaking of Death Watches, Flash is on the verge of dead. Like for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey real, for real.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Flash is, this is another one of those things where the correct response is, they were still making Flash.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I could tell they were still making Flash because I still come across websites that require Flash

⏹️ ▶️ John or don’t work right or complain that my version of Flash is up to date. I’m like, still? Really? What is, what is this website?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why do you want me to have Flash? I just want to see some video. What century are we in?

⏹️ ▶️ John But the reason this is a story is because Adobe, the makers of Flash, are saying, we’re not gonna do

⏹️ ▶️ John that anymore. So finally, you have no choice. People who continue to make websites with

⏹️ ▶️ John Flash, soon you will not be able to get Flash, or a Flash plugin that works

⏹️ ▶️ John in modern browsers because Adobe is not going to spend more time developing it and blah, blah, blah. So

⏹️ ▶️ John truly, only Adobe could really ever kill Flash because if they continued to make it and sell it as again, a product

⏹️ ▶️ John in their lineup, some people would buy it and use it and force you to have it for their websites and those are bad people.

⏹️ ▶️ John and so I’m glad Dobie’s putting an end to this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How do you really feel?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our three sponsors this week, Casper, Squarespace, and Audible, and we will see you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and T.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental, they didn’t mean to.

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, accidental, tech broadcast so

⏹️ ▶️ John long.

John’s vacation, redux

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So John how was your beach vacation? I really want to hear more about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the same as it always is. I always go down to Long Island for it’s usually just a week. This time it was almost

⏹️ ▶️ John two weeks because reasons and we took the dog

⏹️ ▶️ John with us this time. We’ve gone down there with a dog before but that was our other dog and he was

⏹️ ▶️ John much better behaved than this little

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco monster.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well she’s still a puppy though. Yeah yeah no she’s just he was much older dog but We survived,

⏹️ ▶️ John we had pretty okay weather. Took a lot of pictures, filled

⏹️ ▶️ John up a lot of memory cards, filled up my wife’s iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ John We came back home, she got that warning that Mac OS will give you that says your disk is running

⏹️ ▶️ John low on space, which is never a good warning to get because Mac OS, like so many Unix’s before it,

⏹️ ▶️ John does not behave well when it runs out of disk space. Things get very bad very quickly.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I had to come home and well I tried to delete a bunch of pictures but then you got to go into recently deleted

⏹️ ▶️ John and delete them and you know I did as much picture deleting as I could but the bottom line is pictures don’t, pictures only accumulate

⏹️ ▶️ John essentially. You know you just keep taking more of them and you don’t delete the old ones. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I have been more worthless in deleting them than I have in the past. Not just out of focus or bad

⏹️ ▶️ John ones but just like you know just deleting everything except for the ones I think are decent.

⏹️ ▶️ John But then I had to go through her computer and delete a bunch of other stuff too. So pull out Disk Inventory X.

⏹️ ▶️ John I looked for alternatives. I know there’s a bunch of alternatives that people like. People like Daisy Disk, Grand Perspective is a Disk Inventory

⏹️ ▶️ John X lookalike type program. Space Gremlin is my favorite. Oh, I didn’t know about that one. I gotta check that one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out. It’s fairly hideous, but it’s pretty functional.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like the tree map view, the big rectangle. I like Disk

⏹️ ▶️ John Inventory X. I’m concerned that it’s not being maintained and it sometimes does some weird stuff that bothers me a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ John so that’s why I just downloaded Grand Perspective. But anyway, if you’ve never used one of these programs or

⏹️ ▶️ John Omnidisc Sweeper or DaisyDisc, whichever one you want, when you’re trying to free up disk space, this is the way to

⏹️ ▶️ John do it. Get a program that will show you somehow all the stuff that’s on your disk and find the

⏹️ ▶️ John big things and don’t spend a year going through a million tiny files to figure out what to delete. Delete like three big ones,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And that’ll do it. So, deleted a bunch of games from Steam. I moved my

⏹️ ▶️ John iTunes backups to a different volume.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, speaking of things you can safely delete with this new modern age,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iTunes device backups are huge. Most people have no idea that they’re even still keeping those if they don’t use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them anymore, and they take up tons of disk space. So that’s a number one hit, is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got to get rid of those iTunes backups. Also, if you’re a developer, Xcode keeps around all sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of support files for old simulators and old devices that you probably don’t use anymore. The Xcode

⏹️ ▶️ Marco developer directory is always a great source of clearing out stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah I still keep the iTunes device backups just because it’s still, even

⏹️ ▶️ John with the crappiness of iTunes, slightly the fastest and most convenient way to restore like a kid’s device

⏹️ ▶️ John that got totally hosed. So I keep them around. I didn’t want to delete them all. I deleted obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John all the old ones for devices that I’m using, but I just move them to a different volume that isn’t backed up that I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t like if I lose them all well like there are these are all devices are all backed up to iCloud right so I just have local iTunes backups

⏹️ ▶️ John you know it’s just convenient because the encrypted backups I have all the passwords although I think they added that to the

⏹️ ▶️ John iCloud backups to now didn’t they anyway more backups is good so I didn’t want to delete them I just move them

⏹️ ▶️ John what else did I delete

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well the trick now is so if you want the passwords and stuff to be saved they’re still excluded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from iCloud backups, but iCloud Keychain now exists. So the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John official

⏹️ ▶️ Marco word of how you’re supposed to do this is to use iCloud Keychain also in addition to iCloud

⏹️ ▶️ Marco backups, and then you will have those things work.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that saved a lot of space. I ended up freeing up like 130 gigs or something, which

⏹️ ▶️ John gave me a little bit more breathing room. But you look at the Disk Inventory X like giant rectangle picture,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s just a huge rectangle that is my photo library, and it’s a little skinny row with a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of tiny little things that is everything else on the system. And what can you do? Like I got the biggest,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s a one terabyte drive and her iMac. And that’s the time we moved. You know, we moved the photos

⏹️ ▶️ John from an external drive to an internal one. It’s so much more convenient and fast, obviously, to have

⏹️ ▶️ John everything in one volume before I had this even more complicated backup scheme where I had, you know, her internal

⏹️ ▶️ John drive on her old computer, but then also my external photos drive, and then you have to do like

⏹️ ▶️ John it just doubles the amount of backup headaches that you have to do and I like having it all in one but at

⏹️ ▶️ John this point you know when we replace this iMac I’m gonna get her one with a two terabyte disk

⏹️ ▶️ John or I’m gonna move the iPhoto library to my Mac Pro with the four terabyte internal SSD or whatever the hell

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna get in my fantasy world.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s actually that’s that’s a non not crazy way to do it like one one of the little hacks I recently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco decided to try was I have you know my my iMac and then a laptop and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have one terabyte each because that was like the most you can get on the iMac at the time and so I got that. But I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pushing that. So like on the iMac a couple years ago now I bought a little external Samsung

⏹️ ▶️ Marco SSD to and I moved over. It’s very very easy to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iTunes and Apple Photos store their giant libraries anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else like on an external drive or anything. It’s very easy to do that like you don’t have to do any kind of weird sim link trick or anything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can just tell it, I’m now moving this here. And it just works for both Photos and iTunes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And because it’s such big things for most people, that’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number one hit rate to move. But one thing I started doing now with Photos is I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco signed in. So I have this Mac Mini server at home. It’s like a little home utility server. Among other things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it usually runs a live stream for the show. It also hosts a giant iSCSI volume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on my NAS. And this is, I would not honestly recommend doing iSCSI, it’s too much of a pain.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If I were starting fresh today, I wouldn’t do it. But what I would do is just plug in a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple of giant external hard drives to that Mac Mini, which would serve the same function. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I have this Mac Mini that thinks it has a whole bunch of locally attached storage. So one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing I’ve started doing now is I signed in to Photos app on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Mac Mini, and I’m having it keep a local copy of 100% quality of everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So now I can safely, if I want to, I’m not sure if I will, but if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to now, I can have future computers not keep my entire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photo library on them and therefore maybe I don’t need to buy the giant expensive 2TB or future 4TB options.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, now maybe I could get, quote, only the one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or two terabyte SSDs built in, so that now, because I have this other Mac Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my house that is keeping a full resolution copy of everything locally. And, you know, the third

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option is you could just trust cloud backup. I don’t like that option. So I still have this thing locally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still have everything locally in my house, but it’s hard to, you know, because once, as you said, John, once you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco add photos to your life, you’re basically gonna keep paying for that storage forever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, you know, every computer you buy, you’re gonna have to get the bigger and bigger disk each time, and you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to keep paying that giant SSD tax over and over and over again every time you buy a computer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, one way to solve it is, see if there’s some kind of clever way you can use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other or different or cheaper hard drive space in your house. And so for me, having the Mac Mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco signed into Photos app and having that download the originals, then freeze up the other computers to have it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do the optimized storage thing. And so yeah, that’s one option. This could be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crazy, I don’t know, but it seemed reasonable when I set it up.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I mean, I did the same thing. I have another Mac that signed in with a one terabyte disk, you know, that does the thing. But the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing is, I just don’t, like in the same way that RAID is not a backup solution, I don’t consider that a backup. Like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John good to have it, but I would never turn on optimized storage on my iMac. Because I need one canonical location

⏹️ ▶️ John and I want that backed up the old fashioned way, you know, three times. The time machine to two separate disks,

⏹️ ▶️ John cloud backup and also super duper clone. Like the photos are the most important thing that I backup.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I want them in more places, not fewer. So I never, I’m never gonna uncheck,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m never gonna check that optimize storage box. Even though like, and I did this, that’s what I did on vacation. I took a laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John with me on vacation with a one terabyte drive, right? And so I’m taking the pictures, signed into the same account, my wife’s

⏹️ ▶️ John account, like I made on this laptop. And I’m doing all the pictures there and doing all the edits and everything

⏹️ ▶️ John and deleting and favoriting and doing all this stuff. And then I come back home, and the whole time I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John leaving my laptop open all night long like to upload, you know, the iCloud photo stuff, right? And then I come home and

⏹️ ▶️ John look at our iMac and all the pictures and all the edits that I did on vacation are basically there, except for a few stragglers.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then I leave both computers like on and connected to Wi-Fi for a couple, you know, for like eight hours

⏹️ ▶️ John to make sure, okay guys, we’re all in sync now. Because at this point, my photos are only

⏹️ ▶️ John on the laptop. Like I’ve had to overwrite, I brought two SD cards with me, but I had to overwrite

⏹️ ▶️ John one of them, right? So I don’t even have the SD cards as the backup. Photos are only on the

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop, and the laptop is pushing up to the cloud. And then I want them to be pulled down from the cloud onto what’s supposed

⏹️ ▶️ John to be my canonical computer, which is the iMac. And only after I’m 100% sure that no one is

⏹️ ▶️ John doing any syncing and everyone is all on the same page and everyone’s got all the original quality images on two computers and they’re backed up 100 times,

⏹️ ▶️ John only then can I turn on optimize storage on the laptop or more likely I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just gonna delete that account on the laptop or whatever, because it’s just a temporary

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. but I’m really, like, the thing with the Mac Mini, I would love to have a solution like that if I had the disk space on another Mac to throw

⏹️ ▶️ John at it, but in general, I don’t, I want my backup, I want my backups to use different software

⏹️ ▶️ John than the regular functioning of stuff. I think for a while I also had it on my Mac, on my Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, the same thing with optimized storage on, but optimized storage is too blunt of an instrument.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, I wanted to, I want some control over the optimized storage. I don’t want it to be like, well, almost fill your desk and then

⏹️ ▶️ John back off. I would love to say optimize storage and never get bigger than

⏹️ ▶️ John X size, right? Or I don’t know, something to let me have more control.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or like keep the originals for the last X months or years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, exactly. And then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before that you can start archiving, you know, stuff like that. But also to clarify, by the way, that Mac mini that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hosts this full-size library, that everything it has is also backed up to Backblaze.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So there were always people in the chat asking, so I figured let me save myself a week

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of email I would just say that’s also backed up. Too late.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah. That’s why

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s iSCSI because the backplate doesn’t do network disks so you need the, you know, direct attached storage. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly it. Yeah. And I have a feeling I don’t think would appreciate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being on a network disk either. Anyway, yeah, if I were starting over, honestly, if I were starting over today with like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large storage like this, I would not get a NAS. I would just get, I would just have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, have another Mac somewhere or another computer somewhere in your house that’s small spec, inexpensive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just plug in a few large external hard drives and call it a day. Because then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can have things like Backblaze backing it up. And I have found that I don’t… Unlike Casey, like Casey,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you use crazy cool features of the NAS with its built-in apps. I use none of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in practice. The NAS to me is just a giant external hard drive box.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t even use Plex on it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I use Plex on that Mac Mini actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s the same setup I have on my iMac. So I don’t use Plex on the device. But I mean, I don’t really do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that much with the Synology, although I didn’t want to interrupt John earlier, but I was surprised that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t have the Synology hosting a VPN for you so you can like easily get to any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey device on your network and force all of those things to be uploaded. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you can… My

⏹️ ▶️ John Synology is not accessible to the internet. Because it just, it’s a peace of mind thing, like Synology

⏹️ ▶️ John and other network attached to it. Like you can’t reach it. I can’t reach it. it. I feel better that

⏹️ ▶️ John way.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t have any access to my home network from outside. Like I have anything like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of like dynamic DNS thing or any kind of like forwarded screen sharing or VNC.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have no access to my home network. Anything I want to do that I want to access when I’m out on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go, I have to either access it through sync services like Dropbox, or if I really need something, I can pull a file

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off a backblaze. But that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is that a good enough after show?

⏹️ ▶️ John What was I gonna say? I was one more thing about my setup that I was gonna say.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco So John,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess your vacation went well. I love it. How’d your vacation go?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Here’s all the stories about disk space in my photos library.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, my vacation is like it’s for the kids and everyone to go to the beach and hang out and, you know, me taking care of the dog

⏹️ ▶️ John this time has a little bit of added hassle and stress and lots of waking up early. But I take a lot of pictures.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, you know, I just, well, I brought both cameras because you gotta have a backup. But I just used my new Sony camera.

⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t even use my my super zoom at all. The super zoom was just there just in case I dropped the Sony in the ocean. I successfully

⏹️ ▶️ John did not drop it in the ocean once again. I brought a new zoom lens for

⏹️ ▶️ John it which is a longer zoom but a crappier lens but it was cheap than I used

⏹️ ▶️ John last time and it was alright. I used most of the lenses I brought with me. I took lots of pictures,

⏹️ ▶️ John got some good ones. But that’s a lot of my beach vacation stories. I take a lot of pictures and then

⏹️ ▶️ John I edit them and mess with them and post a couple of them to Instagram. In general I don’t post pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John of like pictures of my relatives. I don’t want to be featured on my Instagram and Really don’t post much pictures of my

⏹️ ▶️ John family alone now that my kids are older. I post a few pictures of them here and there But yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John This is my the heaviest photography time of the year most if you look at when are the most pictures taken and

⏹️ ▶️ John by far it’s these one or two weeks that I’m long out like we’ll come home from the ocean one day and I’ll have 1600 pictures.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously, I’m not keeping all those I’m deleting a lot of them, but that’s what it looks like It’s a secret to good photography

⏹️ ▶️ John as far as I’ve been able to determine so far is take a huge number of pictures and then delete most of them. Yeah, the secret of good

⏹️ ▶️ John photography is lots of bad photography. Yeah, so I’m definitely doing that. What else

⏹️ ▶️ John lens-wise? Yeah, I still don’t have a really good zoom that I like because good zooms

⏹️ ▶️ John are really expensive and really heavy and it’s like I’m just resigned to the fact that I will, you know, the smaller,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, my 50 millimeter prime is still my favorite lens but that’s not gonna cut it at the ocean

⏹️ ▶️ John and so as I get more flexible, the image quality goes down and the size and weight go up

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’ve mostly accepted that. But I’m still pretty happy with my camera. Got a lot of good shots out of it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John like I said, didn’t drop it in the ocean, so that’s key.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, they’re basically, there is no good zoom. Like, every zoom is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a giant compromise in at least one factor. Either you’re compromising image quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco severely in order to get something reasonably sized and reasonably inexpensive, or you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are having really great image quality, but then the thing is massive and probably a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty small zoom range and probably very expensive. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just impossible to make a great zoom lens that has a large range

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and is reasonably priced and is reasonably small. You just can’t do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, and one brief dog story. So I’ve been training to come on calls in

⏹️ ▶️ John adverse conditions when you really want it to happen. Like, for example, when all the other dogs in the dog park run into the mud

⏹️ ▶️ John puddle and get covered head to toe in muddy water, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John and literally changes the color of the dog and you don’t want your dog to do that. That’s the time when you want to, and every dog

⏹️ ▶️ John wants to go to the nut puddle. They all start heading there and all the owner’s like, no. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John when you need the come when called thing to actually work. I call my dad today, I

⏹️ ▶️ John use that, was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it today?

⏹️ ▶️ John Today or yesterday, exactly that happened. You know, I told her to come, she came,

⏹️ ▶️ John it was exciting, right? But I found the limits of that on vacation because she was out in the backyard and we let her loose

⏹️ ▶️ John for a little bit and she’s wandering around. Usually the work she does is find rabbit turds and eat them because they’re delicious.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Well, okay. But this time, yeah, they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John delicious. But this time she found a dead bird. And I didn’t know what she had found.

⏹️ ▶️ John I started getting into something and I called her to come over and she comes running towards me. She gets about

⏹️ ▶️ John three inches from my hand where I’m about to grab her collar and I see the wing of the dead bird sticking

⏹️ ▶️ John out

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of my mouth. This

⏹️ ▶️ John is not a small bird. This is a pretty significant bird that’s in her mouth. And she gets close to me and she

⏹️ ▶️ John sees that I’m going to reach for the collar and she’s like I’m out turns the other direction runs away as fast as she can

⏹️ ▶️ John I run after her in a yard like I run after her I eventually catch up with her she as

⏹️ ▶️ John far as I can tell swallowed that bird whole

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like just so I couldn’t you know I was getting ready to dig

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing out of her mouth like so many things that I dig out of my dog’s mouth that I don’t want her to have she

⏹️ ▶️ John just you know like full like python lizard just slurped down like whole dead

⏹️ ▶️ John bird beak feathers everything. That’s dogs for you. So

⏹️ ▶️ John she will come when called when all the other dogs are running to the mud puddle but she gets a dead bird like I have made

⏹️ ▶️ John the mental calculation and whatever treat you’re going to give me for coming Anyone called does not match this dead

⏹️ ▶️ John bird, so dead bird wins.