229: Just Smush the Screen Somewhere
06 Jul 2017Face-unlock possibilities, iOS 11 multitasking so far, and the latest news about floppy drives.
Episode Description:
- Follow-up:
- DragonDrop replacement: Yoink (App Store)
- Mac stuff for 👵🏻👴🏻 (including Stephen Hackett)
dyldvs.dylddvs.closured- App launch time thanks to
dyld - Encoding/decoding new formats on old hardware
- WebRTC and Opus
- iOS 11 Multitasking
- Connected with Federico Viticci, Myke Hurley, Stephen Hackett
- Canvas with Fraser Speirs and Federico Viticci
- Cortex with CGP Grey and Myke Hurley
- Upgrade with Jason Snell and Myke Hurley
- WIMP
- New iPhone Rumors
- Ending theme by Jonathan Mann
- Post-show: LG UltraFine 5K Display
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Chapters
- Follow-up: Dragon Drop
- Follow-up: Old Mac stuff
- Follow-up: Floppy auto-inject
- Follow-up: dyldd/closured
- Follow-up: App launch time
- HEIF/H.265 on old devices
- Opus support in WebRTC
- Sponsor: Fracture
- iOS 11 in use so far
- Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
- Face-unlock rumor
- Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
- Face-unlock rumor, cont’d.
- Ending theme
- Post-show
Follow-up: Dragon Drop
⏹️ ▶️ John It would shoot it out about halfway, like kind of a tongue sticking out of your mouth. It makes a little noise.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then it would pop out.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, we can get started as always with follow-up. And approximately
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one-tenth of the internet I counted wrote in to tell us about a drag-and-drop replacement.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you recall, I spoke about drag-and-drop last week, and it was a thing where if you wiggle
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your mouse, you get kind of a shelf, for lack of a better term, where you can store things temporarily
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then drag them off of that shelf into somewhere else. So it allows for you to,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, manipulate your computer rather than having to commit to a drag, start to finish all in one shot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And a bunch of people wrote in very helpfully and suggested Yoink, which I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have installed. There is a demo outside of the app store. I installed it, ran the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey demo for about a day, realized this is pretty much as close to drag and drop as I can possibly get
⏹️ ▶️ Casey without actually being drag and drop. And so I then purchased it for $7 from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Mac App Store, and it is quite good. Yoink basically allows you to have a shelf,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not unlike drag and drop. In some ways it’s actually better than drag and drop because it allows you to put
⏹️ ▶️ Casey multiple things on the shelf. Whereas my recollection of drag and drop was that basically it was one item and that’s it,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or, you know, like one collection of items, basically one drag operation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey into the shelf was all you got. Whereas with Yoink, you can put several different things in the shelf all at once. You can drag
⏹️ ▶️ Casey them out as one unit or drag them out as individual units, etc, etc, etc. It’s very, very good. I like it a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pro tip in the preferences, which I don’t have in front of me and I’m not going to try to dig up, but there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a way to say rather than having the shelf appear on one of the edges
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the screen, you can have it appear very near where the drag is happening, which is a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey faux replacement for the wiggle the mouse approach of drag and drop, which I loved. So yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey having used Yoink for all of two or three days, two thumbs up from me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wonder if the reason why drag and drop went out of business was that it’s impossible to talk about on a podcast without saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the animal dragon and the word
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not drag dash and dash drop.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, exactly. You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to clarify all these things.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But yeah, it’s good stuff, so I definitely recommend it. And like I said, there’s a demo if you want
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to try it out for yourself.
Follow-up: Old Mac stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for a little bit. We’ll put both a link to the developer’s website where you can grab the demo and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the app store link in the show notes. So, several
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of you wrote in to encourage John Syracuse to talk about old Mac stuff, which is almost
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as bad as encouraging Stephen Hackett to talk about old Mac stuff. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let’s talk about old Mac stuff. John, tell me about old Mac menu UI, if you please.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is a quickie. We talked about it last show, the old Mac way of doing menus in the menu
⏹️ ▶️ John bar, having to hold down the mouse button. And many people wrote in to
⏹️ ▶️ John tell me a thing that I guess they think I didn’t know, but maybe other people don’t know as well,
⏹️ ▶️ John that you can continue to do that. In case that wasn’t clear from the discussion last show, you can continue to
⏹️ ▶️ John use the menus the old way, because of course that way still works. Like it is, it’s kind of a
⏹️ ▶️ John subset of the regular way. So go try it right now, if you want to feel like you’re living in the days
⏹️ ▶️ John before I’m gonna say Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John OS 8? Mac OS 7.6? I don’t know, if someone in the chat room
⏹️ ▶️ John can look up when the Mac operating system switched to the Windows style
⏹️ ▶️ John of clicking on menus and that they stay down. But anyway. The window,
⏹️ ▶️ John you say it, the Windows style. It is, I mean, I guess you could say it’s an ex-Windows system
⏹️ ▶️ John style. Some ex-Windows manager probably did it before Windows Next
⏹️ ▶️ John probably did it before Windows. I don’t know anyway. It certainly wasn’t the Mac style the Mac style was the Mac style from the very
⏹️ ▶️ John beginning Anyway, you can continue to do it the old way if you want to some people have anything you do
⏹️ ▶️ John it the old way I thought I was gonna continue to do it the old way in the same way that I continue to remap command and
⏹️ ▶️ John to create New folder because you know I tried it the other way didn’t like it some habits die hard, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I totally switched to the Windows mouse technique Way
⏹️ ▶️ John as soon as they added it not by any conscious choice. It just happened
Follow-up: Floppy auto-inject
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s just the way it is, but some people wrote in to say, Hey, I’m still doing it the old way
⏹️ ▶️ John So it works some people. So anyway, give it a try. All
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so to keep with the theme Jira Cox writes in and says
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m 33 and have used most Macs since the powerbook 160 I’ve never even heard
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of quote floppy auto inject quote. When would you use that?
⏹️ ▶️ John So we talked about floppy auto inject and eject last show. Floppy auto eject
⏹️ ▶️ John is pretty self-explanatory. Macs from the beginning
⏹️ ▶️ John could eject their own floppy disk. There was no button that you would press to make the disk come out. Through software,
⏹️ ▶️ John through the operating system, you would do something to make the disk be ejected, like select disk and then
⏹️ ▶️ John select eject from the file menu or wherever the hell it was, and the disk would come popping out not all
⏹️ ▶️ John the way like in the Mac portable in space shooting the disc out because we have gravity here and friction
⏹️ ▶️ John that caused by that gravity as the floppy the floppy disc rubs against the lower parts of the
⏹️ ▶️ John apparatus but anyway it would shoot out about halfway like kind of a tongue sticking out of your mouth
⏹️ ▶️ John that makes a little noise and then it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve heard that noise and that is perfect
⏹️ ▶️ John I heard that sound a lot having an original
⏹️ ▶️ John Macintosh with one floppy drive. And so I would have
⏹️ ▶️ John the operating system on one floppy, and then you’d have the application and the data on the other floppy. So you’d boot
⏹️ ▶️ John from the operating system floppy. And then you’d eject that a ghost image of that disk
⏹️ ▶️ John would stay on your desktop. So the computer still knew that was there, but you would you would eject it but not unmounted,
⏹️ ▶️ John then you would stick in like say the Mac paint floppy disk, which can contain Mac paint, plus
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe five or 10 of your own images, you know, the app plus your files and
⏹️ ▶️ John you’d have to do this floppy disk dance of operating system disk application disk whenever the computer asked for it and
⏹️ ▶️ John the computer asked for it by spitting out one disk and saying please insert the disk system disk and you would take
⏹️ ▶️ John out whatever disk it just spit out and put the system disk in then it would ask the application disk back and forth and back and forth
⏹️ ▶️ John being able to do that the floppy swap of taking out the one that it has auto
⏹️ ▶️ John ejected and putting in the other one with one hand was a very important skill for Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John users of that because then you could have the mouse or the keyboard or be doing whatever and also be flopping
⏹️ ▶️ John the disk back and forth. It got a little bit ridiculous at certain points. Anyway, that’s auto eject.
⏹️ ▶️ John Auto inject is the more subtle and therefore the more valuable
⏹️ ▶️ John attribute of Mac floppy drives, which was when you took a disk, this had to do with
⏹️ ▶️ John the switching back and forth. Auto eject meant that you didn’t have to like press a button like the disk was already
⏹️ ▶️ John there you could just grab it an inch of the thing was already sticking out of the thing. Auto inject meant when you stuck a floppy disk
⏹️ ▶️ John in you wouldn’t have to like you did on a pc shove the three and a half inch floppy
⏹️ ▶️ John all the way in like in and down kind of like a nintendo cartridge right an nes cartridge like you didn’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John to shove it all the way in and down right it was so much
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was just egregious marco do you remember the pain we went through
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah what you would do instead is you you would push the the floppy disk in and just as you were getting
⏹️ ▶️ John toward sort of towards the end of the travel when the the the edge of the disc would start to be flush with the edge of the
⏹️ ▶️ John case. The drive would pull the disc out of your hand, which is a spring-loaded mechanism, it’s not like, it wasn’t complicated.
⏹️ ▶️ John It would suck the disc in. So you’d just have to push it in and give it a little flick and it would go, shroomk, and it would just
⏹️ ▶️ John stick in by itself. So you didn’t have to take the disc out yourself by pressing a button,
⏹️ ▶️ John and you didn’t have to shove the disc all the way in and down, it would pull the thing. It’s kind of like the Mercedes, whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, soft-close car doors, yeah. Yeah, but it wasn’t soft. You know, Mercedes is not the only car that offers
⏹️ ▶️ John that feature. I think they were the first one with the S-Class many, many years ago. But anyway, it was not soft. This
⏹️ ▶️ John was a very, very hard ending. And since I had, you know, the only thing I had used before the Mac were five and a
⏹️ ▶️ John quarter floppies, which, you know, you just slide in and turn that little knob thingy down, right? There’s no, they didn’t go in and down.
⏹️ ▶️ John They just slid directly in and they were actually floppy, right? So I had never used a three
⏹️ ▶️ John and a half inch floppy that wasn’t an auto-inject and eject until like the first time, like, I encountered a
⏹️ ▶️ John PC that used them. maybe it was like the PS2 or whatever, whenever PC makers finally started bundling
⏹️ ▶️ John three and a half inch drives. And it was just so gross, because you know, you got to wait for the light to stop
⏹️ ▶️ John blinking and press the eject button and cross your fingers, that on the eject
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco side, and then on the inject
⏹️ ▶️ John side, I would push a disk in and it would just come bouncing back at me. I’d be like, is this thing broken? Pushed in, oh it just comes
⏹️ ▶️ John bouncing back. It’s like, no, you have to shove it all the way in. Anyway, that’s auto-inject and it was awesome.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that we’ve become like the podcast all about USB ports and floppy drives.
⏹️ ▶️ John the most important parts of computing, the most relevant for today’s audience.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you know when you see a BMW driver on the road and they’re driving aggressively,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not using their turn signals, and just generally living up to the BMW stereotype,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know that moment where you’re like, you know what,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey those are jerks. Well, then you hear John Syracuse talk about how egregious it was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to use a PC floppy disk drive back in the 90s, and you think, yeah, those Mac guys,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They were kind of obnoxious about the Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s hard not to be obnoxious when you have something so much better that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey My eyes just rolled right the hell out of my head
⏹️ ▶️ John Like the thing about auto inject and eject though is like these are you know? Apple didn’t make these drives like their source
⏹️ ▶️ John from Sony or whoever makes them right every PC vendor could have had auto eject and inject the eject
⏹️ ▶️ John part was you needed OS support for that because that was just a philosophical and technical difference of like, does the OS
⏹️ ▶️ John manage when the disk is unmounted or does the user manage it? And you know what Microsoft chose there, but auto inject
⏹️ ▶️ John could have been added to PCs and probably wasn’t a bunch of PCs. Uh, it’s just that PC makers, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, ever pinching those pennies would not spend two cents to add a feature like that, which
⏹️ ▶️ John in the days of floppy of swapping floppy disks was a huge quality of life difference, but there’s no way they
⏹️ ▶️ John would buy the fancier drive that would do that because everything had to be as cheap as possible as my PC suck.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I gotta say you know I’m a sucker for any kind of cool like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fancy little luxury feature but auto injecting eject just never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco crossed that barrier for me where both the the hassle of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pushing a floppy drive it a floppy disk into the drive and pushing a small button to eject
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was never a big deal to me and And then having it be entirely software based
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and having to do software ejects on the Mac always was more of a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hindrance to me. And I recognize things like, you mentioned about unmounting the disc,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I recognize why it’s useful to have that be software driven or have software be involved.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the fact is that it’s worse as a user to have that be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco software based and then have all these additional parts that could fail in the drive.
⏹️ ▶️ John Drives did not fail first of all someone asked that in the thing No, they did not fail and my entire
⏹️ ▶️ John life of max with floppy drives not a single one ever failed in any way No part of it inject
⏹️ ▶️ John eject the reading no part of the drive ever failed. I had a lot of max with floppy drives
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I I’m curious to know that whether that whether on a large scale there was a meaningful difference
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in failure It’s cuz
⏹️ ▶️ John I I feel like in my life my lifetime usage of max who represents a large scale It probably does. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I’ve never heard of a PC floppy drive failing. Never.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah I mean I think it’s just a generally reliable thing. Like I’m not saying the non-auto injector ejects won’t fail
⏹️ ▶️ John too. I just think it’s a very chunky, reliable piece. And they got so much use. I mean you know it was
⏹️ ▶️ John like swapping floppy disks. They were pretty solid. Moving on.
Follow-up: dyldd/closured
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Lewis Garberg writes in to say that, I guess we as in Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey considered naming the daemon for this is D-Y-L-D. We
⏹️ ▶️ Casey considered naming the daemon D-Y-L-D-D for a while, but settled on Closure-D.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Naming is one of the hardest problems in CS.
⏹️ ▶️ John He’s the one who gave the presentation or part of the presentation on D-Y-L-D-3 at WWDC.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think his last name is Gerbarg, not
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Garberg. My apologies, sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, you can watch the presentation and see and or hear him I forget if he appears in the video but yeah D.O.L.D.D.
⏹️ ▶️ John was on the table sadly not chosen.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why is that so sad?
⏹️ ▶️ John Because it would have been funny.
Follow-up: App launch time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, John, why don’t you cover this next piece of follow-up for me?
⏹️ ▶️ John He is another difficult name you’re trying to get me to pronounce. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey trying to talk. I can’t pronounce the
⏹️ ▶️ John first name, this is a problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m gonna go with Yuba.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, this is someone linking to a blog post,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m assuming this person works at Automatic, the company that, is this the same company that makes the box
⏹️ ▶️ John that you put in the old dirty bastard port on your cars? You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t even need to try
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey to say his name? heard of it?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I let Casey do it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s probably something like Luba Milk-Ulvik. Wow, that was pretty good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That was pretty good. Did you cheat
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I’m just guessing.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m impressed. Maybe it
⏹️ ▶️ John pretty good. Anyway, this was, I’m sorry, I apologize. This thing was added
⏹️ ▶️ John while those two were talking in the live streams. I’m a little bit behind in show notes today. I talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about automatic how they just cut their iOS apps launch time in half.
⏹️ ▶️ John And how do they do it? The obviously do LD three isn’t like out for everybody yet. They’re talking about like their existing
⏹️ ▶️ John iOS app. They did it the old fashioned way based on some advice they got from a WWC 2016 talk.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, Hey, if your app is taking a long time to launch and you use a lot of dynamic libraries, actually
⏹️ ▶️ John you may be spending a lot of your time in the whole part that happens before, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John main is called where it figures out all the the dynamic libraries and loads them and loads all their symbols and does
⏹️ ▶️ John all the code signature verification all sorts of other stuff that happens before your code even
⏹️ ▶️ John begins executing and to avoid that you can take all that stuff and compile it into one giant
⏹️ ▶️ John static framework that’s a part of your executable and you can skip all those steps and that’s exactly what I did which is
⏹️ ▶️ John not really what you probably want to do because you know it’s convenient from both a
⏹️ ▶️ John development perspective and also obviously when your dynamic linking to system libraries, it’s necessary
⏹️ ▶️ John to not have everything compiled into a giant static binary. And so they talk about in this
⏹️ ▶️ John blog post what they had to do to make that happen. It will be better if they can say, Oh, we don’t have all this hack
⏹️ ▶️ John that we did to put everything into one giant static library. We don’t have to do that anymore. And I was 11 because
⏹️ ▶️ John closure D not do LDD will do all this caching for us. And instead,
⏹️ ▶️ John on startup on the second time we start up, we’ll just say it was as closure D. Hey, do you do all that look up stuff for
⏹️ ▶️ John us good just give us the answers and then we’ll continue from there but either way it’s interesting blog posts we will link it in the show
⏹️ ▶️ John notes and they they break it down into like how much time was spent doing
⏹️ ▶️ John dynamic library loading rebasing and binding for for all the addresses and everything and they have an
⏹️ ▶️ John other category and you can see how they uh they cut it down so people are trying to
⏹️ ▶️ John i guess maybe i underestimated exactly how much time is spent into the dynamic linker for large complicated applications
⏹️ ▶️ John versus how much time is spent in your application launching, loading all sorts of resources,
⏹️ ▶️ John and other things like that.
HEIF/H.265 on old devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Walter writes in, any ideas how Apple will handle the transition to new file formats
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on older Macs that don’t support hardware encoding and decoding of H.265? What
⏹️ ▶️ Casey will happen with users who have a mixture of old and new devices, like a brand new iPhone and a four-year-old Mac?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey How is that going to work?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, we already have some indication of this because if you happen to have installed the beta on your phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and have taken any pictures with your phone, and you don’t have the beta on your Mac of, hi Sierra,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you can see what happens in the photos app where it actually is handled
⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhat gracefully. It downloads the Heaf version as the photo and it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to show you a render of it as a JPEG in some kind of fallback mode, but if it’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco live photo it can’t play it. And if you try to export the original or do any kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of meaningful operation on it, it says something on the lines of the full resolution version of this is in a format that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t supported. It does, like, you know, it has all these he files sitting there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are being sent over from the phone running on iOS 11, but the Mac Photos app on whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco version I’m running that’s not, hi Sierra, what is this? Regular, yeah, regular Sierra.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I lose track. When
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they, now that they’re changing names every year, I lose track. I like forget entire mountains and stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, so that’s how they’re doing it so far. We’ll see, like, the other, like, they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to be smart about things like in share sheets an iOS like they like they’ll share out a JPEG
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or they’ll share out, you know, presumably for video, they’ll probably share out an H264 MP4 file or something like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So they’re probably they’re trying to be smart about it. But in certain places, it’s just gonna if you have some devices
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are upgraded and some that aren’t, it’s just gonna be little bumps in the road like this.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think you can’t actually export H265. I remember one of the sessions talking about that, like your export options if you
⏹️ ▶️ John use their framework, the only option is h.264 like
⏹️ ▶️ John subtle way of encouraging you hey if you’re if you’re about to share this out somewhere don’t even try to do h.265
⏹️ ▶️ John this question though is specifically about Macs that don’t support hardware encoding and decoding of
⏹️ ▶️ John h.265 what will they do well we’ve seen this before with Macs that didn’t support hardware
⏹️ ▶️ John encoding decoding of h.264 back when that was a thing because most of them do these days but a long
⏹️ ▶️ John time ago they didn’t and same thing happens with every video codec whether it’s yeah what
⏹️ ▶️ John was the one that was the cool one on the in the era of the blue and white g3 the
⏹️ ▶️ John cool video codec divx no no like the quick time one like quick time always had a choice of
⏹️ ▶️ John like what which codecs you want and they would add new ones
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah it was called mov come on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i mean mpeg4 is pretty old like it like before h264 there was regular
⏹️ ▶️ John i know i know it’s not what I’m thinking of. It was it was a codec that Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John was really excited about and would promote as as their fancy there.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sorenson, there we go. Someone got it finally. Anyway, back when Sorenson came out, it’s like,
⏹️ ▶️ John what if my or, you know, H264 is a better example, because that is hardware support for that. What if you can’t support it? Well, your video
⏹️ ▶️ John playback is choppy, or you can’t play it at all worth a damn like it, It you know it will fall back
⏹️ ▶️ John to software so for h.265 Apple is supporting decoding on like
⏹️ ▶️ John every Mac They sell obviously and lots of old Macs too And there is a software fallback if you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have hardware because a lot of Macs Don’t have our in fact most Macs don’t have hardware for it And will the software
⏹️ ▶️ John fallback would be fast enough you can find out now go find an h.265 movie in MKV
⏹️ ▶️ John you know format on off the back of whatever truck you want to find it on and and try to
⏹️ ▶️ John play it and if it is reasonable resolution and you play it in like M player X for Mac or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll play fine but you’ll find one that’s like 4k or even in some things 1080p
⏹️ ▶️ John and you’ll try to play it in M player or VLC or whatever and it will choppy, be choppy and it
⏹️ ▶️ John will drop frames and it will be crappy um but in general I
⏹️ ▶️ John think their Apple software implementation of H.265 encoding and decoding Will be just fine
⏹️ ▶️ John for any reasonably modern Mac, but just like the h.264 Changeover did leave
⏹️ ▶️ John behind some acts that could play could play mpeg-4 video perfectly fine in the
⏹️ ▶️ John days before Or mpeg-2 or whatever and had trouble with h.264 without
⏹️ ▶️ John any hardware to help it out We’re really big videos that will happen But it will be fine like and I wouldn’t be worried about this
⏹️ ▶️ John if you if you don’t remember the super painful transition To H.264, you
⏹️ ▶️ John also won’t remember the super painful transmission to H.265. If anything, H.265 transition will be easier because I
⏹️ ▶️ John think we’ll see the hardware support for it come online sooner because a lot of it is, a lot of the hardware
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s used to do it is similar enough to H.265 decoding that we already have close
⏹️ ▶️ John analogs to it. So I think the hardware vendors won’t, it won’t be too painful to add hardware to
⏹️ ▶️ John do H.265 decoding. It’s already in the newer chips. Oh, and related to this,
⏹️ ▶️ John similar questions that I didn’t get a chance to put in here. A lot of people asked, kind of what Marco was getting at,
⏹️ ▶️ John for the Heaf stuff, actually it’s tangentially related.
⏹️ ▶️ John Will they take all my existing pictures on my phone, for example, is a common question,
⏹️ ▶️ John and convert them all to Heaf to save space, right? Because I’ve got 100,000
⏹️ ▶️ John pictures or whatever, I’ve had an iPhone since day one, they took all these pictures, they’re JPEGs, Heaf is supposed to be half
⏹️ ▶️ John the size. Will Apple convert them all? I’m almost 100% sure the answer to that
⏹️ ▶️ John is no, they won’t because there would be a quality loss. Now that doesn’t mean, could Apple convert them or could there
⏹️ ▶️ John be a way for you to convert them all? Of course, yeah, I mean, they’re your photos, you could convert them all, you could
⏹️ ▶️ John buy a third party program to convert them all and delete the JPEGs or whatever. I don’t think this is
⏹️ ▶️ John a feature that Apple will add, but they could, they could have a big button in iCloud that says, hey, take all my JPEGs and
⏹️ ▶️ John convert them and I’ll accept the quality loss, which probably won’t be that big a deal
⏹️ ▶️ John to get the space segments or whatever. But I really don’t think they’ll do that because converting a giant
⏹️ ▶️ John library would take a really long time unless they did it server-side, which is not Apple’s forte, and you will
⏹️ ▶️ John lose quality on them, and there’s lots of things having to do with losing edits and other type of things
⏹️ ▶️ John in lossy ways. It’s basically a destructive operation. Converting JPEGs to
⏹️ ▶️ John HEAF would be, if you wanna get space savings out of it, would be destructive, because you’re taking a lossy
⏹️ ▶️ John compressed format and you’re doing another lossy compression on top of it. And
⏹️ ▶️ John even if you think you won’t notice any difference or whatever and you’re desperate to save the space, you’d be way better off for both
⏹️ ▶️ John your sanity and like tech wise to just get a phone with more space on it
⏹️ ▶️ John than to try to convert all of your things. So I don’t recommend that and I don’t think Apple will do it but
⏹️ ▶️ John surely some third party will. So if you’re desperate to do it, you will be able to.
Opus support in WebRTC
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sebastian Krauss writes in to say, I think the reason why Apple is finally supporting the Opus
⏹️ ▶️ Casey codec is that they’ve announced WebRTC support for iOS 11 and High Sierra. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Opus is one of the required codecs that you have to support in WebRTC. And Sebastian has provided a couple of links
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which we’ll put in the show notes. This is also why I think that Opus will see a very high adoption rate eventually because every device
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a browser that supports WebRTC, according to SPAC, also has to support Opus,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which was news to me and I thought very interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is news to me too. And this is very promising because, again, as much as you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know that I’m a huge fan of MP3, the fact is it would be nice to have a more modern
⏹️ ▶️ Marco codec that was as widely supported as MP3 and was unencumbered
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as far as we know by patents. And that’s what Opus is. And it would be wonderful
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if Opus had widespread support because it is so much better than MP3 at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lower bit rates that there really are a lot of good uses for it. And it really might be, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, worth developing standards for, you know, for things like podcasters to be able to offer multiple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco versions of the same file in a reasonable way and have that supported by the tooling and the hosting and everything else. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if Opus, you know, if Opus can be more widely supported, it makes all of those things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more worth doing. And so I honestly don’t know anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about WebRTC. All I know is that it is potentially useful for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like recording podcast double-enders in browsers. That’s cool. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know if I’d use that, but it’s cool. I’m glad it’s available. This is nice.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ll see what happens. I do still have reservations that I’m a little worried
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about possible patent issues with using a free codec that has not been under
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much patent scrutiny yet. It is a really good codec. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any support for it is probably good.
⏹️ ▶️ John Let’s think support, making support for a codec mandatory as part of a standard. It’s good, like it’s better
⏹️ ▶️ John than not doing that. But it’s not a guarantee that people will actually support it, especially if it’s obscure.
⏹️ ▶️ John People could say, Oh, well, you know, we have web RTC support, but don’t bother with the open
⏹️ ▶️ John support or like do a half ass job of it and don’t really you know, like, because who uses Opus, it’s not a big deal.
⏹️ ▶️ John There is no, no one’s going to stop us from shipping a web browser and claiming web RTC support
⏹️ ▶️ John when our Opus support is terrible or crashes or is slow or only half exists or you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, whatever. So these type of formats, all of them have begun with O,
⏹️ ▶️ John whether they be Ogg or Opus or whatever, Vorbis, all this other stuff, WebM,
⏹️ ▶️ John all these supposedly patent free formats that are less popular because they
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have some big corporation that’s monetarily motivated to spread them everywhere and put them and you know, and platform
⏹️ ▶️ John owners are less motivated to support them because they have their own things that they want to do. It’s always
⏹️ ▶️ John an uphill battle for them. But putting putting support for it and mandatory support for it in the specs certainly helps.
⏹️ ▶️ John So we’ll see. We’ll see how this shakes out like, like the Apple’s Opus support, like their limited support for Opus.
⏹️ ▶️ John If we talk about this three years from now, and they still have a limited support for Opus, that’s not a good sign.
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it would show that they have you know web RTC itself they might decide is no one’s
⏹️ ▶️ John using it it’s not that big a deal and the Safari teams priority should be elsewhere the web kids teams priority should be elsewhere
⏹️ ▶️ John so concentrated other standards it takes a long time to stop for something to go from standards defined
⏹️ ▶️ John by a stance about standards body to being implemented widely enough in the browsers that people use
⏹️ ▶️ John to actually be useful to people I mean just look at CSS which I think was CSS
⏹️ ▶️ John almost finalized in like 1996 or something and we didn’t get decent browser support for it for
⏹️ ▶️ John many many many years way too long and even even when people were claiming CSS support it
⏹️ ▶️ John took them so long to actually pass like remember the original CSS one acid test like do
⏹️ ▶️ John you actually comply with all the CSS one spec like no we just comply with the parts that most websites use
⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t that and the answer is no that wasn’t enough but it took so long so here’s hoping Opus
Sponsor: Fracture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Fracture, who prints photos in vivid color directly on glass.
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco to display and ready to hang right out of the box. They even include a wall anchor if you don’t have one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All you have to do is upload your photo and pick a size fracture that you want. It’s that
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iOS 11 in use so far
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you very much to Fracture for sponsoring our show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of you would like to talk about iOS 11 in use and I cannot because I have not installed it on any of my devices
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I am not a maniac and I am traveling later this summer and even on my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad, which is the most non-essential of non-essential devices,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t want it to be on my iPad until it is extremely stable. So speaking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of me being quiet, I am going to turn this over to Marco.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I didn’t put this here, but. Sorry. Just kidding. You think I added the show notes,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John adorable. Fair
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough. No, but so far, I have, I put iOS 11 on my iPad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the very first week, and I put it on my phone with beta two, which was now about two weeks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago. And so far, it’s mostly good. There are some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things about it, I’m not crazy about yet. And I guess
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll start with the bad so I can end with the good. Like a compliment sandwich in a big company.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess it’s maybe an open-faced sandwich. Anyway, I don’t know. Open-faced sandwiches are terrible. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’m not crazy about the new like giant text navigation bar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco style that is in all the system maps and everything with the big header and all that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco white space. That’s kind of weird. I’m also, the multitasking stuff on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad takes some getting used to because it feels like I have to do a lot more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco swipe gestures than before to set up apps, like in a multi-window
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. And some of those swipe tests, I just, maybe I just, because I haven’t done them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough, some of them don’t make a lot of sense to me, like the way you have to like pull
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up an app off the dock to create it, and then you also have then pull it again
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from his little dragging handle to like stick it down. I don’t love the way that flows.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m also not a huge fan at all of the new notification center.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The way you have to like swipe it down now, and this is on the phone, I think it’s the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco same on the iPad but it’s mainly getting in my way on the phone. The fact that you have to swipe it down and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks like your lock screen even though though it isn’t your lock screen. And then you have to, in order to see more notifications
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than like the first little bit, you have to swipe on the screen again
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to then show like the all notifications view. I don’t know why that isn’t just the first view.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know why the extra swipe is necessary. And it took me a couple of days to even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco find that. And to find where is the clear all notifications
⏹️ ▶️ Marco button. And so there’s stuff that’s now hidden behind these weird gestures
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that seem like it’s actually just more manual work than before for common
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tasks. So I don’t love that. However, other stuff in the OS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems great. On the multitasking side on the iPad, I’m just glad they did so much. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of it is not the way I would do it. The thing about how apps are kind of fixed as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re two at a time sets, and you kind and I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mix and match an app between different quote spaces. That whole thing’s a little weird for me,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I’m not an iPad power user. So it’s not really getting in my way.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad power users who actually have better things to say about using the iPad in that way,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people like Mike and Vatici, Fraser Spears, they have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more opinions on this. And I suggest listening to all their shows which we’ll put in the show notes. They’ve been talking about this a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recently. And so, and their opinions seem to be fairly mixed on the thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as well, about how everything is kind of like, these groups are kind of fixed in these app pairs, and an app can only be in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one pair, and you’re always bringing up the same pair of apps at a time, and so there’s things about it that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are clunky, but it’s really cool that they’re doing as much as they’re doing, and all that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff, I think, is gonna be way better in time. Now, the problem mainly, though, is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, like with any iOS beta, every summer, Most of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the apps that we are using are not taking advantage of this because apps can’t ship versions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the App Store that use iOS 11 APIs yet. Apple does not accept submissions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of apps built against the beta SDK. You have to wait for its release in the fall. So the only way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to run iOS 11 apps that actually use iOS 11 capabilities that aren’t built into the system
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to begin with is to get on developers TestFlight betas. And TestFlight is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wildly broken for most people. iOS 11, so that isn’t happening very much as far as I know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So there’s a great bright future here of things like the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new multitasking stuff, the new files stuff, the new drag and drop stuff, and some of the new APIs that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make developers’ lives a lot easier and that lead to better things for users. There’s a lot of great stuff here,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but most of it is still on the horizon. And on the phone, it makes way less of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a difference because most of the really big stuff that users can actually use right now and start taking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco advantage of right now, instead of waiting for the summer, or waiting for the fall when everyone’s apps get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco updated. Most of that stuff, there’s more of that stuff on the iPad than there is on the iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And especially if you are an Apple Pencil user and an Apple Notes user.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s really cool for iPad power users and Pencil and Note people.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everyone else, I feel like, I don’t know, it’s kind of a mixed bag for now.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I put this in because I couldn’t figure out multitasking on iOS 11 but it turned out to just be a bug where I
⏹️ ▶️ John just wasn’t working on my iPad. I mentioned it last week but like I was doing the things that you’re supposed
⏹️ ▶️ John to do to like combine apps into sets and stuff and like nothing was happening and I thought I was just crazy but it was just a bug
⏹️ ▶️ John and restarting my iPad, fix it, whatever, it’s a beta. About the things that
⏹️ ▶️ John people can be complaining about like the limitations of mixing and matching application stuff, we’re getting
⏹️ ▶️ John into some weird territory with kind of the mental model of how
⏹️ ▶️ John things work on iOS. Like the old model was so simple and so straightforward, like especially
⏹️ ▶️ John before multitasking, like it was just such a solid mental model that it
⏹️ ▶️ John was obvious to anybody using it that like when you hit the big, the one and only big button
⏹️ ▶️ John on the face of your device, you went back to springboard and that’s where you saw all your applications.
⏹️ ▶️ John And when you launch any application, your entire phone became that application, uh, plus or
⏹️ ▶️ John minus the status bar, which is small enough and incorporated into the application enough that people didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John think of it the same way we think of the menu bar. Right. And if you want to do anything else, you hit the home button again
⏹️ ▶️ John to go back to springboard. And that was it. That was the model, you know, springboard application, application,
⏹️ ▶️ John springboard. And obviously that’s not viable for a sophisticated, uh, workflow of any
⏹️ ▶️ John kind. And so we had to leave that and multitasking came in and we had the multitasking switcher And
⏹️ ▶️ John now we’ve got this little floating don’t call the window window things and combining multiple applications
⏹️ ▶️ John on the screen at the same time kind of a tiling window manager, but the mental model is starting to
⏹️ ▶️ John Break down and it like what is what is an iOS application in its
⏹️ ▶️ John running state is it just represented by a single? rectangular region
⏹️ ▶️ John of the screen that it controls and within that rectangle there can be other floating rectangles or Or like
⏹️ ▶️ John the model that a lot of heavy iOS users are asking for, which seems reasonable to me, but it’s super weird,
⏹️ ▶️ John is like, I have messages alongside my text editor.
⏹️ ▶️ John I also want messages alongside my web browser. Why can’t I have two
⏹️ ▶️ John spaces or whatever, one of which is web browser and messages, and one of it is my text editor and messages?
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, well, you can’t do that. You got to pick which one you want messages next to. But if you did have it next to both of them,
⏹️ ▶️ John the easiest way to do it would be like, All right, now it’s next to both of them, but it’s not two instances of messages.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the one and only rectangle of messages, right? And it’s exactly the same between the two places, presumably,
⏹️ ▶️ John like this is the way they could implement it. I think most people would be fine with that. They don’t think they have two
⏹️ ▶️ John separate copies of messages running, like one is signed into some different thing or whatever. It’s like, this is just
⏹️ ▶️ John the one and only messages, but it appears in two places. It’s like having two copies of the,
⏹️ ▶️ John well, the finder does it all the time, two copies of the same window on your Mac. like this is literally the same window.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anything you do in this window, exactly happens in real time in the other window, like you could move things around
⏹️ ▶️ John and they would move it because that’s that would be the mental model. The other possible model is no, you actually have two messages windows,
⏹️ ▶️ John but now all of a sudden, there are ram implications and application development implications like wait, how do I manage that as my application
⏹️ ▶️ John in two states of my application? No, it has two windows. This is, you know, uncharted territory in terms of
⏹️ ▶️ John API and UI for iOS developers to handle this. You might have multiple
⏹️ ▶️ John instances of you running. So I hope you can manage that internally with the stuff that you’re doing. That’s not how iOS applications
⏹️ ▶️ John work. If they have multiple quote unquote windows up, it’s still within the one and only rectangle that
⏹️ ▶️ John is owned by that application. It’s not like you have to totally divorce one. But both of those things
⏹️ ▶️ John that are described are pretty weird, both from a developer’s perspective and trying to explain them to
⏹️ ▶️ John use. I had a difficulty trying to explain them right now. And I don’t know if I could explain them to someone using
⏹️ ▶️ John the device like this is how things work. And yes, you don’t to you like oh I don’t have to worry about that I’m never gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John do this thing where I split up my iPad screen I’m just gonna treat it like my old iPad where you go to the home button and that that it’s good
⏹️ ▶️ John that the iOS falls back to that model you don’t know about any of this stuff you know about swipes you don’t do them accidentally use
⏹️ ▶️ John it just like the old iPad application home application home it’s inefficient but you can stick
⏹️ ▶️ John with that model but if they’re going to try to expand iOS with most guessing as they should
⏹️ ▶️ John to become more sophisticated there should be some kind of coherent explainable
⏹️ ▶️ John model for how things work and I don’t think Apple has quite hit on that yet
⏹️ ▶️ John as evidenced by like the the immediate reaction of people who are every iOS user like oh this is great but
⏹️ ▶️ John here are a couple scenarios that are not possible within this current paradigm and everyone is mostly
⏹️ ▶️ John just so jazzed to have a new paradigm to even talk about that you know this is the honeymoon period but I think eventually
⏹️ ▶️ John a year or two from now Apple will have to continue thinking about this and say all or how do we address
⏹️ ▶️ John that? Is there a new mental model for rectangles in iOS and how
⏹️ ▶️ John they relate to applications that is understandable and also
⏹️ ▶️ John useful and generic in the same way that the
⏹️ ▶️ John Windows input mouse pointer, what does WIMP stand for? I forget. Anyway, the traditional Mac user interface,
⏹️ ▶️ John the Windows style user interface for PCs that everyone is used to. And a lot of the things you talked about, Marco, like
⏹️ ▶️ John the edge swiping, and how notification center works, and all the weird gestures or whatever, like, all that is made necessary
⏹️ ▶️ John by the simplified iOS interface that doesn’t have essentially Chrome, there’s no menu bar, there’s no
⏹️ ▶️ John title bars, there’s no scroll bars, and that that’s an advantage of iOS. But
⏹️ ▶️ John the way PC operating systems get around all these things is, you don’t have to know
⏹️ ▶️ John any weird Gestures if you want I mean just look at this on like notification center on the
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac It’s an icon in the menu bar It has a privileged place in the menu But then but the menu bar is always there
⏹️ ▶️ John and an icon is the thing you can bring a cursor over and it’s like this Always visible interface element and it slides in from the right
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s very much like an iOS interface element But you deal with it like a Mac interface element even though you can’t actually slide
⏹️ ▶️ John it with two fingers or whatever to make it Appear on the Mac. There’s a place for visible UI to be for
⏹️ ▶️ John all this stuff. That’s what window Chrome is That’s what you know I mean they kind of went a little in that direction by
⏹️ ▶️ John bringing tabs to iOS where Safari has actual tabs Like where that was kind of weird like where did that come from
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no title bars or scroll bars or window widgets or menu Bar, but guess what tabs appear and they turn out to be great,
⏹️ ▶️ John so maybe Maybe some Chrome will start creeping into iOS as a solution
⏹️ ▶️ John And we kind of do with the status bar to hey you want to zoom to the top of really long document you can tap The status bar which we
⏹️ ▶️ John cheat and decide is a giant button in most scenarios because it’s convenient convenient to have a thing that you can
⏹️ ▶️ John press that’s on the screen that does an operation. So I’m keeping an eye on it. That’s a lot of talking for
⏹️ ▶️ John a topic that was really based on a bug, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I am using iOS
⏹️ ▶️ John using iOS 11 on my iPad and I am using the multitasking features and I’m hitting a lot of the same
⏹️ ▶️ John pain points, albeit to a much lesser degree as all of the super heavy iOS users. Because, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, I mean, I think about this, I was thinking about this when I was listening to one of those podcasts while using my iPad. I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ John people think of me as a big Mac head and I do love my Mac and it is the thing that I care about the most. But
⏹️ ▶️ John on a day-to-day basis, forget about my phone, I spend more time with
⏹️ ▶️ John my iPad than my Mac, easy, when I’m not at work. When I’m at work, obviously that’s not true. When I’m at work, it’s sitting
⏹️ ▶️ John in front of the Mac all day. But when I’m not at work, like on weekends, I use my iPad way
⏹️ ▶️ John more than my Mac and my phone probably more than my iPad. So I think it’s just everyone’s reality
⏹️ ▶️ John these days. So I’m not, even though I’m not a
⏹️ ▶️ John heavy iOS user and that I need to use it for my work and I’m annoyed if this thing interferes with my ability to perform
⏹️ ▶️ John sophisticated tasks, I do spend a hell of a lot of time in it. And as someone well-versed in the ways of
⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac and PC-style operating systems, I do feel those limitations.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, and a little bit of a tangent on that note, one of the reasons why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am pushing myself to try to do more on the iPad is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because if I can set things up in such a way that I can get more of my work done
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on an iPad, that also probably means that I can get more of my work done on my iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And my phone is always with me. I’m always given chances where I could
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it where I wouldn’t have a chance to use my computer. And so anything I do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to benefit my iPad working life will almost certainly help my iPhone working life,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which will help my working life regardless of what I think of the iPad. So if you are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a mostly or entirely Mac head like John or I or Casey,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is one reason to investigate productive options for yourself on the iPad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that it’ll help you in general on your phone too.
⏹️ ▶️ John One other item I had on iOS 11 that has been not a stumbling block but
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the things that I felt most immediately and continue to feel is the keyboard, the new keyboard on iOS 11.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s mostly just muscle memory because using iOS keyboards for so long I’ve become
⏹️ ▶️ John accustomed to where things are, especially like when you type your passwords and stuff you kind of
⏹️ ▶️ John memorize the pattern of where things are, right, on an iOS keyboard. And
⏹️ ▶️ John they move stuff around, the iOS 11 keyboard. They moved lots of stuff around like punctuation characters
⏹️ ▶️ John and how you get at special characters and the flick thing where
⏹️ ▶️ John you can get to the number symbol. You don’t have to switch the entire keyboard into number mode. The little
⏹️ ▶️ John number is grayed out above one of the letters like 1 over the Q or whatever the hell it is. I don’t have
⏹️ ▶️ John an iOS 11 device in front of me. You can get to that by putting your finger
⏹️ ▶️ John on the key that you’re going to hit and instead of picking it up, slide it downward. you do that,
⏹️ ▶️ John the higher item on the key like slides down and becomes bold to indicate
⏹️ ▶️ John if you were to release now you would get a one instead of a letter and then you release. When I first saw that
⏹️ ▶️ John feature described in WWDC, I thought it meant to flick up. So as soon as I first installed iOS 11
⏹️ ▶️ John and I saw this keyboard, I’m flicking up on all the keys and it’s not doing anything. Yeah, it’s flicked down.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I think down probably makes more sense because as you slide down you can see the key cap changing of
⏹️ ▶️ John what you know what you’re gonna get at least I’m again I’m doing on the iPad I don’t know what it does in the phone so I do
⏹️ ▶️ John like the flicking things but I cannot find the hyphen for the life of me I’m like where the hell I end up
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m already switched into punctuation mode and then I can’t find the hyphen I need to just not switch into punctuation mode and like
⏹️ ▶️ John pull down on the X or wherever the hell it is now and I thought I would have remapped
⏹️ ▶️ John but I guess using my iPhone which is still on iOS 10 it’s not allowing me to remap so I would say
⏹️ ▶️ John that for all the people haven’t tried iOS 11
⏹️ ▶️ John be warned that adjusting to the new keyboard might take a little doing I just can’t wait until
⏹️ ▶️ John all my devices are iOS 11 because then I can just convert and just forget the old keyboard because the new keyboard is better I really do
⏹️ ▶️ John like the flicking I just need to break myself of these old stupid habits of like having to switch modes right
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s much better to just remember all the flick things are and flick of them that’s great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I still haven’t used it like I said so I’m looking forward to it and I think once my beach
⏹️ ▶️ Casey trip in August is over I will absolutely put whatever the latest beta is on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my iPad but I am NOT touching my phone with this thing until it’s done done and I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to touch my iPad with it until I’m done traveling.
⏹️ ▶️ John Why don’t you put it on your iPad now it’s perfectly safe for iPads.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah and you hate your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t hate my iPad that is fake news fake news. I I don’t hate my iPad, I just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t love it as much as I used to. I don’t know. Because when
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you go to the beach, as I’m doing at some point in August, you never know what the internet situation is. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in all likelihood, if there isn’t internet in the house, I will be able to tether off my phone. But I like having
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the backup of my iPad, which is on a different network. And thus, I don’t want to mess with anything
⏹️ ▶️ Casey just to be safe. Although the last time I heard a podcaster talk about this, it was Mike Hurley, and he He lasted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey approximately three seconds before he caved and put iOS 11 on one of his 17 iPads.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So it’s probably going to end up happening before I go on this trip in August, but we’ll see.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but, and like, you know, people like Mike, like these iPad power users, they were like desperate for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Apple to show
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of, you know, it’s like if Apple released the new Mac Pro in an early beta tomorrow
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they said, all right, you can buy it now, but you’ll have to reboot it once a day.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would buy it in a heartbeat. Even though, because I just want a Mac Pro again so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco badly. I would jump on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. Marco, if you want it that bad, I can stick a sticker on your iMac and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have it say Mac Pro. Or I can give it, you know what I’ll do? I’ll buy you a trash can and put some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ports on the back and write new Mac Pro on the front of it and you’ll never know the difference.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’ll probably be just as quick too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I could probably just take a small amount of tape onto my MacBook Pro and cover
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up the book. There we go. Call it a day. New Mac Pro. happens to be portable.
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Face-unlock rumor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you very much to Casper for sponsoring our show. All
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so let’s talk about iPhone rumors. This is the time of year where everything seems to amp up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the rumor mill seems to get ever more aggressive. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the last few days as we record this, we’re recording it on Wednesday the 5th, there’s been some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more rumors, particularly around Touch ID. There’s been a lot of waffling, which Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey doesn’t know anything about, about whether or not there will be Touch ID. will it be? Will it be on the front, under the screen? Will it be on the front in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the chin? Will it be on the back? How angry are all the Apple users going to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be if it’s on the back? Or will it maybe not exist at all? So Ming-Chi Kuo
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has said on the new iPhone that has OLED, which everyone is assuming
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going to be called iPhone Pro, they’re saying that there will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not be any touch ID at all, and instead it will use some sort of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey face detection, including depth mapping, in order to authenticate you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know how I feel about this. My initial reaction is, no, that’s garbage.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey My second reaction is, well, if Apple was going to ship it, I’m sure it’ll be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine. And my third reaction is basically the entirety of this week’s Connected, where they went through
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this face detection thing. And I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all three of them kind of went through all five stages of what is it five stages of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco grief, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It really was exactly that. They went through all the like, everything from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, like the anger and all that eventually to the acceptance like, Oh, I guess this might be better.
⏹️ ▶️ John did a whole show on it. But did anybody say my face is my passport? Verify me.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, nicely done. Nicely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John done. They didn’t say that. Come on. No, I don’t think so. Remember
⏹️ ▶️ John Mike in the movies.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. Remember that Mike hated that movie. I know it’s terrible. It’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the movie isn’t terrible. It’s terrible that Mike hated it. It’s a great movie freaking
⏹️ ▶️ John All right. Well, I didn’t hear that episode, but I thought this was I mean, I don’t know We’re still I say we’re far enough out
⏹️ ▶️ John now that these rumors about What will or won’t be on this phone are still
⏹️ ▶️ John mixed up? as Gruber pointed out this week like Pretty sure Apple knows what’s
⏹️ ▶️ John gonna be on this phone at this point, but we don’t know exactly what’s gonna be on it And so this is this is what’s
⏹️ ▶️ John in the mix we had a whole show where we talked about the fingerprint scanner on the back and the difficulty of putting it on the front of
⏹️ ▶️ John Everyone seems to agree that the whole front of this phone is gonna be mostly screen So there’s no room for an actual home button
⏹️ ▶️ John Even a home button that doesn’t move like on the ones on our current, you know that the iPhone 7
⏹️ ▶️ John So it’s like well if I can’t do a fingerprint scanner on the on the screen, they’ll do it on the back But here
⏹️ ▶️ John are the problems with the ones in the back, but it’ll be all Android has them on the back and it’s fine Again, we have that whole show on that topic.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is the new twist. Oh, never mind that fingerprint stuff that’s passe, it’s just gonna scan your face.
⏹️ ▶️ John And this seems like a lot of confusion in a
⏹️ ▶️ John short period of time about how we’re gonna unlock our phones. So from our perspective on the outside of
⏹️ ▶️ John like people trying to leak things and and rumors cycling through,
⏹️ ▶️ John surely we are getting these rumors like a six month to a year
⏹️ ▶️ John delay of like things that Apple has considered and investigated for the upcoming iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ John But Apple has picked something, and we’ll all find out when they introduce their phone.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just weird that none of the rumors so far
⏹️ ▶️ John present a product that we all agree, that will be awesome and I can’t wait to
⏹️ ▶️ John have it. All of them are like, hmm, well, you know, like
⏹️ ▶️ John when we talked about the fingerprint thing in the back or USB-C on the bottom. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John you think about it and it seems kind of weird and there’s always some downside and you’re not sure and
⏹️ ▶️ John there could be cool upsides, but it’s to the point where
⏹️ ▶️ John several times over the past few months, I found myself thinking, why are we doing
⏹️ ▶️ John all screen on the front of the phone again? Like, remind me again what we’re getting out of this because
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a lot of difficulties and you know, Apple is giving themselves lots of challenges, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And what we heard about this, the OLED all screen phone for
⏹️ ▶️ John many years was like, oh, it didn’t make it this year because they couldn’t sort this stuff out,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? And so Apple won’t release this until they come up with a way to do this. And I think
⏹️ ▶️ John the iPhone 7 year was like, oh, this was gonna be the year for the all screen phone. Nope, nevermind. It’s actually,
⏹️ ▶️ John they couldn’t do it. And they couldn’t get the fingerprint scanner to work through the thing. They couldn’t get the camera to work through the screen.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know, whatever the rumor excuse was, it’s not ready yet, right? But
⏹️ ▶️ John everyone seems to say, this is the year, the OLED all screen phone is gonna come out.
⏹️ ▶️ John And we’re all waiting to see, okay, how did Apple solve all those problems? And every potentially rumored solution
⏹️ ▶️ John seems weird. The face recognition one seems the most Apple-y to me because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s kind of like cutting the Gordian knot of having to touch your body to something to unlock your phone, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like, Nope, nope, don’t worry about the touching. Don’t worry about it at all. Not in the front of the screen, not on the back. It
⏹️ ▶️ John will, you know, will just happen like magic. It will read your face. And by the way, the same depth sensors can be used for
⏹️ ▶️ John the the fake background blur effect, too. So we you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John we put the hardware in there and it’s great and we’ll use it for all this and it’s better than a fingerprint because it has more points
⏹️ ▶️ John of recognition and so on and so forth. But,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, again, I didn’t listen to the podcast you were referring to, but I kind of feel the same
⏹️ ▶️ John trepidation about something that requires line of
⏹️ ▶️ John sight. That’s what everyone immediately thinks about. What about all the times I unlock my phone when
⏹️ ▶️ John it can’t see my face? All the rumors like, don’t worry, when it’s laying on the table it’ll still be able to see your face. It’s got a real
⏹️ ▶️ John big wide angle lens on it. It’ll pick up your face. Then you’re like, well what about when
⏹️ ▶️ John I exist near the phone but I don’t want it to unlock based on my face?
⏹️ ▶️ John a button, you’ll have to hit a button and then it will do recognition or whatever. Like these
⏹️ ▶️ John are all things where you want the Apple magic to come in. Like just like Touch ID seemed like a thing that would be terrible
⏹️ ▶️ John and not work and Apple I’d say pretty much hit it out of the park with Touch ID. Like it was if you told
⏹️ ▶️ John us about Touch ID like when you read the rumors you’d be like that could be cool but I’ve never seen
⏹️ ▶️ John that work really well and guess what Apple made it work really well and then they fixed it again and made it work even better. I love
⏹️ ▶️ John Touch ID. I think I said in the year we’re talking about our favorite tech products that the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John 7 was my favorite tech product and I love the fast touch ID. I love it love it so much. I still love it.
⏹️ ▶️ John If face recognition makes me do the same thing think like oh this I thought this was gonna be a crap technology because no one’s ever
⏹️ ▶️ John done it well but guess what Apple finally did it well and it’s awesome. That’s the best case scenario if this is as good
⏹️ ▶️ John as touch ID just right now I’m still in a doubting phase.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really, nothing I have heard so far about facial recognition speculation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has made me say, oh, that sounds better than Touch ID. Like, Touch ID is great.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It works really well. It works the vast majority of the time. The second generation one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco got even better, and it’s so fast, and it does solve a lot of those problems. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you mentioned, like, what if you are there, but you don’t want to authorize something? Like, with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Touch ID, you can be physically present the phone, but you can be presented with a sheet or presented
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a lock screen and you can decline to authorize something if you don’t want to authorize it at that moment. With
⏹️ ▶️ Marco facial recognition, there would have to be another step. You’d have to hit a button on the screen or something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that. There are ways this is worse. Touch ID works no matter how you’re holding
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the phone. Even if the phone is still in your pocket, you can unlock it with Touch ID to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do something. You can unlock it as you are taking it out of your pocket before you are fully holding
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it up, which saves time. You can unlock it in any lighting conditions. It is so incredibly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco versatile and it works in so many ways that I hope that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what we’re moving to with whatever comes in the new phone, if we’re actually going to get rid
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Touch ID, which by the way I’m not entirely sure that I want to believe these rumors, and we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get to that in a second, In so many recent Apple product
⏹️ ▶️ Marco developments, because so much of the low-hanging fruit of modern
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hardware has been picked already, we are so often
⏹️ ▶️ Marco having to make progress only by making certain things worse, or by giving up certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that we’re not quite ready to give up yet. And we do this in order to get the new hotness.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We judge, okay, well, I really want my phone to be not a bigger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone, but to have a bigger screen. So I guess I’ll give up X, Y, and Z.
⏹️ ▶️ John Is that, by the way, when I asked before, what, remind me again why we’re all about
⏹️ ▶️ John this all screen thing, is that it? Is it the only one that just like, more pixels?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s it. Yeah, it’s fitting a bigger screen in a smaller phone. That’s what it is.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m thinking that there are other, that’s the main thing, I think there’s at least a couple other
⏹️ ▶️ John small potential things.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean, that’s a
⏹️ ▶️ John big thing. But the simplification of, kind of like the simplification of making the whole
⏹️ ▶️ John thing a screen with the exception of the home button was such a vast simplification over the BlackBerry or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John that going a step farther and saying, it’s just all screen
⏹️ ▶️ John is, further in Johnny Ive, distilling the thing to its essence, getting rid
⏹️ ▶️ John of extraneous stuff. Can you, like you with trying to make your app with no
⏹️ ▶️ John settings. Like this is part of the drive, part of the simplification drive. And
⏹️ ▶️ John the idea that this phone, you know, the rumors was delayed because they couldn’t pull it off. But then now that what were they
⏹️ ▶️ John talking about is like, they keep talking about the brow, you know, the thing like where the cameras are, whatever, because they can’t get them to go through
⏹️ ▶️ John the screen. It’s like, are you kind of like the laptops? Are you just
⏹️ ▶️ John grasping for the bigger screen on a smaller phone? And at
⏹️ ▶️ John a certain point, you’re like, look, we’re going to do bigger screen on a smaller phone. and we’re gonna make it work. If we miss last
⏹️ ▶️ John year, we’re gonna do it this year no matter what it takes. And that doesn’t excite
⏹️ ▶️ John me that much, I have to say. Like it might look cool, but I would prefer that they delay
⏹️ ▶️ John for a third year if they can’t get these issues worked out. You know, again,
⏹️ ▶️ John they haven’t shipped anything yet. We have no idea. They may have hit this out of the park and maybe the delay was exactly, you know, it’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John be fine. But the more I hear about potential compromises,
⏹️ ▶️ John the less excited I am about, I get more pixels in a smaller case,
⏹️ ▶️ John except for the brow, which does something to the status bar. But anyway, like that doesn’t excite me that much.
⏹️ ▶️ John I really, you know, and again, it’ll probably excite me a lot if everything works awesome. But I don’t know, I was just
⏹️ ▶️ John trying to think of like, what else do we get out of this? This is setting aside OLED, which obviously OLED, we get a lot out of OLED,
⏹️ ▶️ John but you don’t need to do an all screen phone to get OLED.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Right. So wait,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so slow down, what makes OLED so much better? Because I genuinely know nothing about this stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John Blacker blacks, you know, if you’re watching a video and you’re thinking like, So OLED takes less power. So when you’re not lighting
⏹️ ▶️ John up sections on an OLED screen, it’s not on. Whereas with an LCD, the backlight is on behind the
⏹️ ▶️ John whole screen, even when it’s entirely black, which is why the black levels are terrible, because we don’t have dynamic backlights on our iOS devices.
⏹️ ▶️ John As far as I know, there are no dynamic backlights. And even if there were, dynamic backlights suck because they’re not
⏹️ ▶️ John behind every single pixel, they’re regional, and so on and so forth. So anyway, lower power and
⏹️ ▶️ John much higher contrast. And the challenge is to get one that has the color reproduction
⏹️ ▶️ John of Apple’s LCD screens, apparently you know getting a p3 oled the
⏹️ ▶️ John size apple wants with all the characteristics it’s not Straightforward.
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Face-unlock rumor, cont’d.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Squarespace make your next move.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco One of the reasons why I’m a little hesitant to believe this rumor and the only reason
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s talking about this is because Ming-Chi Kuo reported it and Ming-Chi Kuo
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a really good record but his sources tend to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know supply chain sources only and he doesn’t have a perfect record.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco He often misses the story and he often predicts things that are wild
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then don’t come true. The entire Apple rumors game for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few years there were seemingly reporting on every single major product launch before it happened.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know and we all joked about you know Tim Cook doubling down on secrecy a couple years ago when he said that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it really does seem like that has happened and in the last year or two
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are seeing very few substantial leaks and and you know even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fewer like leaked parts and everything and we are basing all of our
⏹️ ▶️ Marco discussion about this this year’s presumed new iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on almost zero good information like there’s almost nothing solid out there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are still no credible parts leaks and for this point in the year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s saying something
⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t think those I haven’t keeping up with a thing with like the fact that the cameras are arranged vertically and all those
⏹️ ▶️ John things, I’m assuming at this point that that is a pretty accurate representation even if it’s not a real parts leak.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I think that’s plausible, but like that’s not that big of a thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, it has two cameras. You can hold the phone in any orientation you want. So if you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco turn the iPhone 7S or 7 Plus sideways,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco then they’re vertical and it still works. Like what’s the big deal? Like that means nothing,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? And the materials rumors are pretty close to that glass front and back with stainless steel
⏹️ ▶️ John Rim like that seems pretty solid everywhere,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that hasn’t converged like no one’s agreeing on any of these things It seems like Apple tried
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bunch of stuff for this generation, and it also seems like Nobody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a credible report out there that indicates what direction they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco chose on almost any of these issues issues. The only thing people seem to agree on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that they’re probably launching three phones this fall.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And the expensive ones are going
⏹️ ▶️ John to be OLED and it’s got more screen for less front place and that probably
⏹️ ▶️ John is not going to have a physical home button. I feel like right before the phones come out, it’s inevitable that we’ll see some kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of parts, like legit parts, you know, the front and the back of the phone and some cutouts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stuff. But it is really interesting that we haven’t seen them yet. Like in most, most
⏹️ ▶️ Marco years in recent times. By summertime, we were seeing credible parts leaks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not even a small number. We were starting to see substantial numbers of credible parts leaks.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I don’t know if the phone is behind schedule, or maybe it is just the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco improved secrecy at Apple. But it really does seem like we have less information
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than ever this time on this phone. So when you see a rumor come out, even from somebody who has a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good track record, Ming-Chi Kuo or like Mark Gurman, I honestly don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco believe it because I don’t have much reason to because they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still all over the map and again these people with you know a really good track record
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Apple rumor prediction is like maybe you’re comically wrong
⏹️ ▶️ Marco less than half the time but that’s not a very good record still like the standards
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for what makes a good record in Apple rumors are pretty low.
⏹️ ▶️ John So which part of this is the part you don’t believe the face recognition or no touch ID?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All of that, face recognition, no touch ID, rear touch ID, what materials the case
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is gonna be made of, what the sides of the case are gonna be made of. I don’t buy whether there’s gonna be that big notch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the top for the cameras and stuff that is gonna interfere with the status bar. Right now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am not confident in any of those rumors to say, oh yeah, that sounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco likely, let’s talk about it as if it’s gonna happen. It’s because there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really is no coherent direction that everything is focusing in on. There’s no…
⏹️ ▶️ John The direction is how the hell did we get this complete screen phone to work?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, and so… That’s the direction.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that, again, that is interesting. And we saw, there were some allegedly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco leaked parts earlier from a safety inspector who was inspecting US customs packages, and they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look pretty questionable. It’s probably fake. But it did present an interesting idea of like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what if the new phone looked like this? And it looked nice. You know, it looks plausible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it was like, oh, here’s how you can, here’s how you can cram a big screen that is still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rectangular, that doesn’t have a weird little cutout on the top for the camera and stuff. You know, here’s how you can shove
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a big screen into a phone body that is still not that much bigger. And that’s nice,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s fine. But it was probably fake, and or probably was a different phone or something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that. like you can’t draw any real information out of any of this any of these things and this year more than ever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because everything is so all over the map it seems like either Apple has gotten so good on secrecy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that these rumors are all based on total BS and I’m not to say that like you know Mark Gurman
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Ming-Chi Kuo were making things up but that they are really grasping at straws and and that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re they’re trying really hard to extract a coherent story out of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very minimal and questionable information. Or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this phone is super late and that it’s not going to be coming out or available in September
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or October. In which case, who knows what’s going on with it. But I think it’s more likely that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is still coming out this fall, that secrecy has just gotten better, and that they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just getting less and less information to report on, report on and they’re trying like mad to try
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get stories out of whatever they have.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, it’s a safe bet to say that the new iPhone, whether it’s iPhone pro or whatever the hell
⏹️ ▶️ John like the fancy expensive all screen one will be supply constrained like more than usual
⏹️ ▶️ John because all we’ve heard about it is things that sound like they would be difficult
⏹️ ▶️ John to manufacture because they’re unprecedented as far as an iPhone is concerned. And
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, rumors of delays and stuff like that. It’s gonna, it’s gonna be hard to get one of those. It’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John be at least as hard as getting a gold iPhone, maybe even harder. And I guess they control that by making the
⏹️ ▶️ John price more because obviously it’ll be more expensive than the other ones. Maybe that will help control demand a little bit, but I think that’s that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a safe bet. And for these rumors, I’m not sure what to believe out of them all. And either,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I will say that face recognition sounds like something that sounds like an Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John style thing that it’s a type of like I said with Touch ID a type of thing that sounds cool
⏹️ ▶️ John but every time we’ve seen it done before it’s been crappy but if it worked well
⏹️ ▶️ John would be nice to have doesn’t mean you have to get rid of Touch ID to do it or whatever but face recognition
⏹️ ▶️ John definitely seems like an Apple feature is it an Apple feature for this year I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ John but I think it would it would fit in well and it would make Apple’s products
⏹️ ▶️ John better if they actually worked on that and got it to the point like they did with Touch ID ID where it passes
⏹️ ▶️ John over that barrier of being a technical curiosity and it is something that just naturally becomes part of
⏹️ ▶️ John a life and we take for granted. And especially if it’s not the only way to unlock your phone,
⏹️ ▶️ John if you, if you’re going to cooperate all of those sensors and all the inputs and user preferences,
⏹️ ▶️ John I can imagine a phone that supports face recognition being better than one
⏹️ ▶️ John that just supports touch ID if done really well. So I’m actually
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of excited for that being true. I’m trying to forget things like the Fire
⏹️ ▶️ John phone from Amazon that tried to do stuff with multiple cameras that was just a giant mess and just assuming
⏹️ ▶️ John like Apple just won’t ship it if it’s craps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and Samsung also had face recognition too in one of their recent phones and the reviewers all crapped
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over it because it was terrible and we didn’t hear about it again.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the good thing is like that, you know, Apple can ship a phone with a depth sensor
⏹️ ▶️ John and just said, no, we’re not doing it. We couldn’t get face recognition to work with them. But hey, guess what? That depth sensor is still
⏹️ ▶️ John really useful for features that we already have. It will make the, what is it called? I keep forgetting the name of the fake depth
⏹️ ▶️ John of field. What do they call it? Portrait mode? Yeah, portrait mode. It’ll make portrait mode better.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so, you know, it’s not a waste of hardware and it will not be like, whoa, look at, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John what was the time it was like an iPod Touch or something shipped with a cutout for where the camera would go, but there was no
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey actual cutout. There’s no actual camera.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like this won’t be like that. If they have depth sensors in there, which this could also be the origin
⏹️ ▶️ John of these rumors. Hey, they have depth sensors. I think they’re using that for facial recognition. Like one thing supply chain doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John know about is software. I’ll tell you that, because that happens someplace else. So- Also,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know what else uses depth sensing? AR kit. Hello? Like there’s lots of reasons why the phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco could use depth sensing on front and back cameras that are not necessarily just for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this. I mean, they could be using a depth sensor just to get the portrait mode on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco selfie camera. Like that’s not that unreasonable. Like that
⏹️ ▶️ John could be it. Right, but then once you have the depth sensor, like that almost guarantees
⏹️ ▶️ John that they looked into face recognition because you’re almost all the way there at that point. Like you’ve got
⏹️ ▶️ John your core ML, you’ve got these machine learning things, you’ve got this vision framework, whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John the hell it’s called, you’ve got AR kit, you’ve got portrait mode, like everything is already there to
⏹️ ▶️ John say, course Apple has been looking into face recognition like they’ve got all the pieces. The question is
⏹️ ▶️ John always is today did it get to the point where they’re going to ship it and we’ll see but I actually
⏹️ ▶️ John I kind of hope they do have a working is I think it would be a really cool reason to try the new iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John because I have some confidence that they won’t ship it if it’s crap that they’ll ship it if it’s cool and great.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m just really hoping that it’s not the only way to unlock it because that’ll be weird like you don’t what Apple doesn’t want
⏹️ ▶️ John to happen is for its expensive iPhone pro like the fancy one that is supposed to be the object of desire
⏹️ ▶️ John and lust, causing everybody to make that noise. Even the people who,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the target audience of like, ready, because they’re like, I do want the fanciest and best
⏹️ ▶️ John phone, but this has weird compromises that are confusing me and making me second guess. Like you want
⏹️ ▶️ John it to just be like better in everything or have some amazing feature that you can’t resist. Even if you buy it and have buyers
⏹️ ▶️ John remorse and it turns out not to be as cool as you thought before you have it in your hands, it has to look like,
⏹️ ▶️ John obviously I want the pro. I want the fancy phone because it’s the cool one. I really can’t wait to try that face
⏹️ ▶️ John recognition or whatever, but if it doesn’t have touch ID, and you
⏹️ ▶️ John just think about it, and like, well, again, how do I unlock it when it’s in my pocket? Well, you don’t. How do I unlock it in the
⏹️ ▶️ John dark? Well, it’s got IR sensors so I can see in the dark. Okay, well, that’s cool. There’s all this sort of negotiation
⏹️ ▶️ John that you have to go through to convince yourself that you really do want the supply constraint. You can’t actually buy one for three months,
⏹️ ▶️ John $1,500 iPhone Pro. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s also it’s entirely possible that they do have a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco depth sensor that it is IR that it can work in the dark that it is using facial
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recognition technology from that company they bought that does that that it is part of AR.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s possible that’s doing all of those things, but just isn’t being used to unlock your phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that is all that can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John all be true. If you’re a
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s right. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hot dog or not. All of this could be them just, you know, adding all this technology
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for other uses. For portrait mode, for face recognition in the photos app, for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco AR, like there are so many other reasons that they could use all these technologies, all these sensors, and have them all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco work together to make cool features that people want. They can do all of that and also decide,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know what, this isn’t actually good enough for unlocking your phone and, you know, proving secureness
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for, you know, purchases and stuff. But we’re gonna ship all this stuff anyway because it’s useful for all this other great stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like that is totally a thing. So I’m guessing this is two different things that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t follow. Like maybe some analyst or rumor reporter got info that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco says Apple’s building in facial recognition. And maybe they also got info that we all heard months ago that said
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Touch ID under the screen is proving to be difficult. But that might not mean that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they are canceling Touch ID and using face recognition instead. Like those are separate things.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that conclusion might not be the correct conclusion to draw from those two possibly totally independent
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pieces of information.
⏹️ ▶️ John By the way, one more thing in the world of security and everything, the whole idea of like that you can be compelled
⏹️ ▶️ John to unlock your phone with Touch ID because of US law, like they can, they can push you, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, they can just take your finger and put it on there in the same way they can take your finger and put it on an ink pad or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think facial recognition changes that, but just makes it even easier. They don’t even have to, they just have to hold the phone up to your face
⏹️ ▶️ John and you know, turned your head away and guess what you just unlocked your phone with your face so all the same
⏹️ ▶️ John all the same protocols apply to you know locking your phone so it requires your passcode and using
⏹️ ▶️ John a sophisticated passcode and all that stuff I don’t think facial recognition changes that but just like your finger
⏹️ ▶️ John your face is your face your finger is your finger we talked about this before if your biometrics
⏹️ ▶️ John are compromised and you can compromise fingerprints you can lift them you can compromise
⏹️ ▶️ John faces you can fake them even if faces are better than fingerprints. If someone is sufficiently
⏹️ ▶️ John motivated, they can do this. So, you know, as in all cases, like, no, no,
⏹️ ▶️ John the protocol, if you find if you’re going to be in a situation where you don’t want to involuntarily unlock
⏹️ ▶️ John your phone, know the correct protocols to get it to the point where it demands your
⏹️ ▶️ John very arbitrary length alphanumeric password to be unlocked and, you know, continue to do those.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The really funny part is that somebody could like if the iPhone has all these technologies to measure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the depths of your face and everything the iPhone itself could be a wonderful tool
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to use to capture other people’s faces to make clone models of.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well you have to also make them like I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John sure they have like heat signatures you’d have to make like a like a fleshy you know hot
⏹️ ▶️ John thing that has it would be a little bit more complicated but you know it could be done but yeah you’re right
⏹️ ▶️ John they are giving you the tools and technology to do at least the depth part of it, although presumably
⏹️ ▶️ John bad actors could get a fancier depth sensor than one that fits inside a phone, but who knows? Apple’s pretty good at this type of
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. On the face recognition of the marker, you didn’t say, regardless of whether you
⏹️ ▶️ John think this is true or not, would you find it attractive? Would
⏹️ ▶️ John you think, is that a cool thing that you, are you hoping that they did actually figure it out? But
⏹️ ▶️ John again, setting aside whether Touch ID is there or not, does it sound like a cool thing? to get the new phone more?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not at all. It sounds like a gimmick. Whether it would be or not, I don’t know. But I’ll tell you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one thing, when Samsung did it, it sounded like a gimmick then. It sounds like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco easily faked and unreliable. Whether it actually is or not, who knows? I don’t think Apple would do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it if it was that bad. But the concept, as it sounds to me right now, sounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a gimmick that I don’t want.
⏹️ ▶️ John Did Touch ID like that to you at first or no?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, I don’t remember, but I probably
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so that’s a hard comparison though because Touch ID,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think, was an easier sell in that it was a deliberate action that you can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey control that presumably is something similar to the crappy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things that we’ve all experienced in our past, except just not crappy. But in every other
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way, it was predictable and understandable. Whereas right now,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not having seen the keynote, not having been instructed on how to hold your face and how to hold your phone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to your face and etc., it’s hard to say what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this would really entail. And on the surface, I would agree
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Marco that, eh, this doesn’t sound like it’s for me. But I also agree,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I think that this is an important point, that Apple wouldn’t ship it unless it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was really, really solid and it worked really, really well. And had thought of these things like what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey happens in the dark? What happens when the phone isn’t pointed square at your face? What happens
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you have sunglasses on or different glasses? What happens when there’s direct sunlight and you’re washed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out? What happens if you want to look at your phone, but not authorize a charge? I have to assume
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that Apple will have worked all this out. So if this really is a thing, I’m pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Casey amped to try it. But, I mean, I’m still kind of excited to one day eventually get a Touch
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Bar Mac, and everything I’ve heard from almost everyone is that that’s a gimmick that’s a waste of time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So who knows? But… Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just keep in mind, like, Apple, you know, Apple for the most part, you know, they’ve had a couple of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stumbles here and there in this way, but for the most part, they won’t release something unless it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco works reasonably well. So I’m not worried that face recognition would be, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, badly functioning. But I think the Touch Bar is a wonderful example
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of how they will release things that aren’t necessarily compelling.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, they do occasionally have that kind of flop. And the Touch Bar, I think, is one of those things. You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, as time goes on, when it first came out, people were like, oh, well, this is kind of interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess we’ll see what people do with it. And yeah, turns out no one’s doing anything with it. And it’s not that interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it just isn’t not it’s not really I don’t I don’t think it was worth what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they did. Simple as that. Face recognition might be one of those things too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We like I don’t think they would release it if it was much less secure than Touch ID like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know they have very good security people working for them. I don’t think and Touch ID
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think was ever really compromised in a meaningful way in the security sense. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they release face recognition as an unlocked thing or secure thing, I bet it will work fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I bet it will be very secure. Whether it will actually be compelling and cool
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and whether you will want to use it all the time instead of using Touch ID, that’s a different story. That’s a big
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but if it’s really what it promises, and of course there is no promise
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet, this is all hypothetical, but I would assume the Apple pitch for this would be, hey,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is even faster than Touch ID and you don’t even have to think about it. You just raise to wake
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then suddenly your phone is already unlocked. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John I was going to say, the sales pitch is pretty easy. Like Casey, we went through all the
⏹️ ▶️ John things like what about this, what about that. There are answers for all of those, pretty easy answers for all of them
⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of darkness and using IR and being washed out and it doesn’t matter and security and using more
⏹️ ▶️ John than just the depth, right? And the solution to what if I don’t want to authorize is what you just
⏹️ ▶️ John described, like pitching it as a better touch ID is that it’s not just the face is the face and
⏹️ ▶️ John you also have to press the screen, right? The face and you also have to force press the screen or it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John touch ID, but doesn’t matter where the heck you touch or with what finger and there’s no training, you pick the phone up and you
⏹️ ▶️ John just smush the screen somewhere, the bottom half of the screen you smush
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or anywhere, maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s anywhere on the screen you smush right, but that it’s two factor right that your face has to be in view and what if it’s at
⏹️ ▶️ John an angle that is really good doesn’t matter if it’s on a super oblique angle it’s very wide angle whatever right just needs to
⏹️ ▶️ John be somehow able to view your face in some way and you swish the screen and in use that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John like the world’s fastest most efficient touch ID just yank the phone out of your pocket
⏹️ ▶️ John your pocket and squeeze it and by the time you’re looking at it it’s unlocked because the combination
⏹️ ▶️ John of your face being in view when his head is in view hit it with the rock anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t worry it’ll it’ll be fine I just this but this time you got not just a reference, but a bad impression.
⏹️ ▶️ John The bonus. It feels like Magic Touch ID, right? And it solves all the problems you
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey combined with IR and all those
⏹️ ▶️ John things. The only one it doesn’t solve is when it’s in your pocket and you wanna unlock it, but that’s kind of a weird
⏹️ ▶️ John thing to do anyway, right? So that’s why I’m excited about it because I can imagine a version of this
⏹️ ▶️ John with current technology, no magic involved, that is really awesome.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I can also imagine, like Marco said, that it’s just people getting confused the hardware is available and this is not coming this year and
⏹️ ▶️ John that will be fine too. But I’m actually kind of excited for it. I think it will be more like touch ID if they ship
⏹️ ▶️ John it and less like the touch bar, which I think by the way, the touch bar works
⏹️ ▶️ John like aside from weird graphical glitches having to do with like weird OS bugs and GPU things or whatever. It does
⏹️ ▶️ John what it’s supposed to do. Like it looks good. Yeah, it feels good. The functionality that it implements
⏹️ ▶️ John is there. It’s just like, Oh, well, it turns out no one is super excited about that functionality. But but it actually works.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not kind of the other example is like Siri, where are Apple Maps or something where they shipped it and maybe it was like,
⏹️ ▶️ John well, even for the thing you were trying to do, you didn’t quite pull it off. And so we can’t really evaluate
⏹️ ▶️ John this idea. The value of this idea, because you kind of screw up the implementation initially,
⏹️ ▶️ John and eventually will get better, right? So we’ll say,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they spent about three sponsors this week Casper, Squarespace, and Fracture. We will see you next
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show
⏹️ ▶️ John notes at ATP.FM And if you’re into
⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and T. Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A
⏹️ ▶️ John mean to Accidental, Accidental, Tech Podcasts,
Post-show
⏹️ ▶️ Casey A real-time follow-up Windows icons menus and pointer
⏹️ ▶️ John I Always forget the eyes icons. I have like input I beam cursor. What the hell icons
⏹️ ▶️ John Whoever I gotta follow the reference whoever made that up. I really hope it wasn’t an Apple or a Mac person first It’s a bad
⏹️ ▶️ John acronym and second icons anyway whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, what else is going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on? Well, so far my 15 inch MacBook Pro is doing just fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, actually I meant to ask you, how’s your monitor? Seriously, I’m not trying to snark.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, the LG 5K, whatever it’s called, UltraSharp, whatever it is, the LG 5K
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Apple pushed last fall.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s Dell, Dell has UltraSharp.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay, sorry. But, they look about the same. that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is what you’d expect from if Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco dictated quality standards for a panel but had a PC manufacturer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually make and sell the case and everything else. So it is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a beautiful screen. It is just as good as the iMac that I had, the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 2014 one, and I’m pretty sure this also supports display P3 color
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s actually better in that spec. I have not compared it side by side to a modern
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac with the newest P3 screen, so I don’t know if it’s better that way,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or if it’s comparable to them or if it’s a little bit worse. Who knows? Maybe on some spec it might be a little bit worse,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but to my eyes it looks pretty amazing. So the panel is awesome. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rest of the monitor itself is generic PC Maker stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It has a big ugly black case around it, it has a big ugly stand,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the speakers are embarrassing, I’m not even sure why it has speakers, they’re so bad,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it has three USB-C
⏹️ ▶️ Marco output ports on the back, and it charges my laptop when it’s plugged in. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it functions fine, oh and it has a webcam up top, and because it It has a webcam up top, it has this giant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco top bezel that does not match the bottom bezel and looks weird. I have not used the webcam yet, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t care, I probably never will. So it’s fine,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but as soon as Apple says they’re making a Pro display with next year’s Mac Pro,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m probably gonna get that when I get the Mac Pro. Because this is, again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is fine, it’s serving me fine for now, but it certainly does not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make me think, wow, this is an amazing piece of computer that I have here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because it’s just so blah, ugly PC hardware.
⏹️ ▶️ John I was in an Apple store recently and I saw the 5K and 4K sitting over there and they just look so incongruous
⏹️ ▶️ John in an Apple store. Like it’s all this Apple hardware and then these big, black, shiny PC
⏹️ ▶️ John looking things. It’s gross.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they really are gross. But and the good thing is the panel does work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. It is a beautiful 5k panel and It does work very well
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with all the recent laptops. The only thing I will say is that as I mentioned last episode
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with with the MacBook escape The the GPU performance is not great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on it. So things like moving around or resizing large windows You actually see some stuttering there and so like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but on the 15 inch with the discrete GPU, it’s great. Totally fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There is a minor issue with the 15-inch that some people pointed out on Twitter that I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I care about because I don’t think I can notice it outside of benchmarks but if you install the Intel Power Gadget
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is basically Intel’s little extension and widget thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to show you your CPU’s dynamic clocking and temperature and everything as like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in real time as like a little graph kind of like activity monitor but for your CPU’s clock speed. If you install that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you will notice that when the 15-inch is plugged into an external display
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it actually throttles the CPU speed more so than it throttles it when it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco running just by itself.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I assume this is for thermal reasons and that’s kind of BSE. I don’t like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like that’s kind of cheating and that means that if you use this computer like and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it has power it’s getting powered by the monitor so it isn’t that it has to conserve power it seems to be thermal
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I tried it both with open lid and in clamshell mode and it seems to be the same. So it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of weird that if you plug this computer into an external monitor you get worse
⏹️ ▶️ Marco CPU performance. But it doesn’t seem to be by enough to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make me care. It is frustrating, but I think I’m just going to deal with that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because, oh well. And this might only be with the high-end CPU
⏹️ ▶️ Marco model, but it clocks it down pretty far. It clocks it down from like 2.9 to 2.0
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when it’s in this throttling mode. So that’s a pretty big drop. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a big deal I don’t think. Again I haven’t been using it for that long so ask me again later
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think it’s probably fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sounds like somebody needs a Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ John do, yes! Tell me about it! People who use
⏹️ ▶️ John laptops as their main machines, the fan noise alone is such a compromise because
⏹️ ▶️ John You work it hard, it’s connected to your big screen, you’re gonna do your big important work, you have it plugged in, you think
⏹️ ▶️ John everything has adequate power, and like, even if everything is going off without a hitch, still the
⏹️ ▶️ John thing sounds like a dentist’s drill over there. And now it’s like throttling stuff, and it’s getting too hot, and you don’t want to have it in clamshell
⏹️ ▶️ John mode because it gets too hot, and thermal throttles itself, it’s just… yucky.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it’s just, it’s weird, like, that’s the kind of problem that I would not expect a brand
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new computer in 2017 to have. have, especially a revision two of a new hardware
⏹️ ▶️ Marco design. I would definitely not expect that. And honestly, I actually considered
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for my needs, you know, being all weird and temporary and changing and needing to be portable,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually did consider getting out the trash can and just using it for the next year.
⏹️ ▶️ John That would have been awesome. Casey’s brain would have exploded.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco The only… Oh, God, please.
⏹️ ▶️ John If Apple waits long enough, Marco will rebuy the same computers multiple times.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean really one of the biggest reasons I didn’t do it is because it can’t drive a 5k display
⏹️ ▶️ John Drive it a non-native res you interested in that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or yeah, or like you know downscaling over the wire and then re-upscaling it Yeah, I’ve seen it in the Apple Store. It does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not look right, but If it could drive a 5k display like nicely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I might have actually gone that route instead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do love desktops so much And like and there’s some weirdness with clamshell mode like it’s mostly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine You know, it’s fine enough for the next year for me to just deal with,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but boy, I’m gonna, as soon as that Mac Pro comes out, I’m switching back.
⏹️ ▶️ John And when I was in the Apple Store recently, I also saw the trash can, and you know what? Still looks cool. It
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you get a trash can again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you did sell it, right? You did get rid of the last one. And I sold it for enough to cover the entire purchase of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac. Because you can actually sell them for quite a bit.
⏹️ ▶️ John high, sell slightly less high. That’s Marco’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Tipster in the chat is suggesting, and this is actually not the first time this has been suggested,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco why don’t I just buy an iMac and bring it to the beach house? And this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is actually something that I considered. But the fact is, it’s so expensive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a decked out iMac. And I already had this 5K display. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I was starting over again, Maybe I might do that, but it also, for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever reason, next year, when the new Mac
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro presumably comes out, and when I presumably buy one, this laptop will be freed up,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then I just have a really nice laptop. If I don’t do that, then it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do anything for my laptop need. It’s like, I don’t know, somehow I rationalized this to make sense, but.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Me, yeah. Yeah, but I really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do honestly like desktops are really nice. The ports say… Oh! I also I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have already found a USB-C dongle that I don’t like.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have the Anker one. I think it actually might be the same one you have, Casey. It’s the Anker one that has three USB-A
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ports and gigabit Ethernet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, what’s wrong with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? Stuff that I plug into the USB-A ports is not reliable.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh really? I don’t I don’t know if I’ve ever plugged anything into the USB-A ports. I got it mostly for ethernet.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, and I used it like twice. So, that’s unfortunate though, if it’s unreliable.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, and one awesome thing that I’ve found about this setup is that because everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is running over this Thunderbolt cable that goes to the laptop, like the way I have it set up now is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything I have plugged into the monitor. And the only thing I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have plugged into the computer itself is the cable from the monitor. and then while I’m podcasting,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the USB interface. Because it’s always nice if you’re running audio gear, especially audio
⏹️ ▶️ Marco recording gear, it’s wise to plug that as directly into the computer as possible to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco try to avoid hubs and things like that, just for various USB weirdness reasons.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Otherwise, everything’s going to this one cable. So the laptop I actually have four feet away from the monitor,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like on the floor, leaning against the wall by some bags, which is great because it’s nowhere
⏹️ ▶️ Marco near me. So if the laptop’s fans spin up, I will hear them much less
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I would if it were on the desk or if it were an iMac. So that’s kind of nice. Of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco course now as John sits there with his decade old Mac Pro, it’s probably like dead silent down on the floor
⏹️ ▶️ John Sometimes I don’t even know if it’s on. It was on all day today. I forgot to put it to sleep when I went away from it. And
⏹️ ▶️ John realize, you know how I found out it was on all day? Because when I came in here to podcast, I’m like, why is this room so hot? It’s because it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a space heater, I’ve been running in it all day. That’s one thing my computer does do, is it takes in cool
⏹️ ▶️ John air and it expels hot air and it does it very efficiently. Ten years of heat. That’s right.
⏹️ ▶️ John Most of the energy that goes into my computer is converted to heat.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do you have, have you ever dusted the inside of that or is that ten years of dust in there too?
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, yeah. I’ve, it’s, although it’s so old now that like, despite being dusted
⏹️ ▶️ John many times, it’s pretty clean in there. the vents in the heat sink are pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John clear, but there’s like the dust, like the thin layer of dust that welds itself to the surfaces. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what this phenomenon is, but like it’s dust free as far as like pressurized air is concerned,
⏹️ ▶️ John but if you run your finger along the surface, nothing comes off on your finger, but you can feel that there’s a layer of dust
⏹️ ▶️ John that is fused to the metal now that has become part of the aluminum. It’s a hell of a thing. I’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John try to take some good macro photos of it when this thing finally retires in glory to my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco attic. This has to go into a museum or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s going into his attic
⏹️ ▶️ John zillion. It’s the thing from the end of Raiders Which is a reference, please tell me you both got come
⏹️ ▶️ John on you’re gonna kill me It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been a long time since I’ve seen Raiders. I’m not sure I have seen it I’ve seen it many times.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s just been a long time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Nothing is safe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing is safe at least Casey got my damn sneakers references all so I got this all I’ve got to hold
⏹️ ▶️ John On to the Casey’s favorite movie. He got a reference to yay
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wait, so is this where they have the forklift and the Ark or something like that is going into this random
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ass warehouse where there’s just a billion random boxes? Is that what you’re thinking of?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John That’s the part. Good you got it,
⏹️ ▶️ John see? I got there. Just give me a second. Marco may or may not have seen Raiders of the Lost Ark, ladies and