Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

203: Screaming At Us From The Future

All three of us rush to do our homework during the show.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Flashlight (transcription + alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Intro
  2. Naked robotic MacBook Pro 🖼️
  3. Sponsor: Betterment
  4. Polling pros on platform changes
  5. Casey and Marco’s homework
  6. Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
  7. John’s homework
  8. This week’s sad Mac posts
  9. Sponsor: Squarespace (code ATP)
  10. “Tina’s” Google Home
  11. Ending theme
  12. Post-show: Neutral


⏹️ ▶️ John that’s one of the amazing things about the making of empire strikes back book the digital version has

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of audio clips of like people talking about stuff i’m like i’m glad somebody recorded these things because here they are having

⏹️ ▶️ John actual conversations about making this movie and they the people have recollections like i talk to them about this guess

⏹️ ▶️ John what we’ve got audio too you know fifteen minutes of audio about this one thing and it’s great to hear even though the quality

⏹️ ▶️ John is terrible because it was the eighties

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s true of many

⏹️ ▶️ John things in the eighties but not empire strikes back that was in the eighties and it was great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so are we in case you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so young so young i feel like i have spoken to marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and john both extremely recently and also not in weeks because we saw each other three

⏹️ ▶️ Casey days ago is that right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that and uh and yet at the same time we haven’t we haven’t had we haven’t had the opportunity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to really and truly nerd out for a couple of weeks now

⏹️ ▶️ John so when we tried to talk about computer stuff we were all together like everyone else did not want to hear it

⏹️ ▶️ John it was there just like rolling their eyes and trying to change a subject to anything else

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they effectively said with body language save it for the show and also happy birthday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john siracusa e

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit late at this point it is four days ago now but a happy birthday you are the answer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to what is what is the actual phrasing the answer to life the universe and everything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much ah fair enough all right do we have any pre show banter we just want to go straight to follow up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was the pre show banter fair enough

Naked robotic MacBook Pro

Chapter Naked robotic MacBook Pro image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey alright let’s talk about the naked robotic macbook pro mister syracuse

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the

⏹️ ▶️ John bestest thing ever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was said with not an ounce of sarcasm

⏹️ ▶️ John i think it is i think it is pretty neat um this if someone had posted

⏹️ ▶️ John this as a joke a couple weeks ago i think we all would have had a good laugh about

⏹️ ▶️ John it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yep the first time i saw this i thought it was a joke and i was like it’s unequal first like i guess somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just has bad joke

⏹️ ▶️ John timing yeah but you know this is apparently a real thing this is from

⏹️ ▶️ John our friends at other world computing this is a product that you can’t buy

⏹️ ▶️ John yet right they’ve just sort of correct announced it and more details to follow

⏹️ ▶️ John you take your new slim for usb port a macbook pro that

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ve talked about at length on this show and you sitting on top of

⏹️ ▶️ John an aluminum rectangle that’s the exact size and shape as the

⏹️ ▶️ John the bottom of the macbook pro making you very slim twenty sixteen

⏹️ ▶️ John slash twenty seventeen model macbook pro the thickness of a twenty twelve mac book

⏹️ ▶️ John pro and in the process it gives you a bunch of extra ports on the side you get usb

⏹️ ▶️ John type a ports you get ethernet you get an sd card slot you get another u s b c as

⏹️ ▶️ John far as i can tell you don’t get any additional battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does it does claim also four terabytes of internal storage of

⏹️ ▶️ John some type and additional things to come like that have revealed all the things it’s going to

⏹️ ▶️ John do so right away i have some technical questions about this oh yes at first how does it work

⏹️ ▶️ John because i expected it to plug into the usb c ports on the side because you know you can do that like

⏹️ ▶️ John the thunderbolt flash usb c ports if you can plug for example a thunderbolt three dock

⏹️ ▶️ John into there and on that dock you can have an sd card port and usb ports and storage and you

⏹️ ▶️ John know you can you can do all that we know you can do it but you have to plug into one of those ports and

⏹️ ▶️ John the pictures they have show both sides of this thing with all four of

⏹️ ▶️ John the thunderbolt three ports on the side of this macbook pro completely open so that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John mysterious

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no i don’t think it’s mysterious at all i mean i understand what you’re saying but i will bet you a gazillion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollars that if you’re looking at the images of the two sides so they’re showing the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right hand side of it but it’s on the left hand side of the image and then the left hand side on the right hand side f the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey image so the right side of the dock where the sd card is there’s a usb

⏹️ ▶️ Casey c port directly under one of the four on board usb

⏹️ ▶️ Casey c ports it’s hard to paint a word picture about this but anyway i bet you anything work they’re going to have one of those little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stubby usb c cables right there it’ll be like you remember the daughter the daughter board

⏹️ ▶️ Casey video cards from pcs way back in the day when you would go you would go like v g a from your tot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey car not as i remember yeah you go from go from your two card to your three d card and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey v ga from your three d card out to your monitor and the you have these little like v ga cables

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was barbaric but i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna make an even older reference back in the mac days when they had scuzzy as their

⏹️ ▶️ John external connector for hard drives and such and you would buy hard drives that fit exactly underneath

⏹️ ▶️ John the classic mac shape so you’d stack them and they would be exactly the size of the base of like a mac

⏹️ ▶️ John plus or five twelve or whatever and since you would stack them each one would be a

⏹️ ▶️ John different hard drive and you need to daisy chain them together in typical scully passion one would have a terminator and then you

⏹️ ▶️ John go from one another they made c shaped brackets they were not cables at all but were exact brackets you know as a single

⏹️ ▶️ John manufacturer wouldn’t sell them like jasmine or whatever and they would plug into the back and connect

⏹️ ▶️ John one drive to the one right above it exactly matching these gigantic fifty pen scuzzy connectors

⏹️ ▶️ John so not a cable at all but a very stiff bracket type thing and i can imagine that as well but they

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t show it in the pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco correct that that is fair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well and also these pictures should be taken with a huge ring of salt because they have even stated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these are renderings these are not the final protestant in fact when i first looked at this page maybe you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know an hour before that macron’s articles posted these exact pictures in this exact

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spot on the the official digital comsats dice on that page

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these exact pictures the two sides were blank except for one the one single u s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco b c in port all like the the and the car reader was there but all the u s b a and the ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco port you see right there we’re not there like twelve hours ago so clearly like this is a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work in progress like i learned more from the macrumors post about it than i did from their page so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearly this is still in the very early phases they said it will be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available in twenty seventeen but i don’t think they got more specific than that nor have they listed a price or anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i mean it’s basically yeah it’s a docking station that happens to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same shape as the macros you can sit it on top of it but when i first saw these pictures without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seeing maria’s article when i first saw the pictures and got almost no information i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco assumed that what they were doing was basically offering a service where you could send you apply to them and they would like unscrew

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bottom of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it and like and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know semi permanently attached this thing and if they were doing that then they could maybe do something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like give a bigger battery and and you know use internal whatever kind of internal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco connections that are present if any i honestly would be surprised that there are many if any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but yeah i was thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John where would they connect it internally but you can do a bigger battery with an external to because remember that u s b c port is also

⏹️ ▶️ John the charging port it work sure this smart the smart phone you know iphone case or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saturday but anyway that isn’t what this is as far as we can tell from the very little information we have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but either way so basically it sounds like it it almost certainly doesn’t offer any additional battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power and that’s the only real reason i would see for for wanting to have this tremendous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco additional bulk added permanently to your macbook or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco well

⏹️ ▶️ John not yet we don’t know because they say that more stuff is coming and if you look at the stuff that’s in there obviously there has to

⏹️ ▶️ John be more because the stuff they have in there would not take up all that space so i guess it could just fill with air but if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to put battery it’s not like this not room they can put an optical drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey actually one thing believe it or not they can put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really good keyboard that you can’t reach uh no so you know we’ll see when this thing actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco provides a little more information and when it actually launches but i don’t think the market for this is to going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be very big i i certainly won’t use it uh no way you can make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me use that because the fact is that the the macbook pro as it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is is almost pretty good and this pushes it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far in the other direction that it’s like okay this like you’ve turned something that’s almost pretty good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but has mediocre battery life and a bad keyboard into something that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still having mediocre battery life and a bad keyboard that is just like bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and heavier to add what is really a very small handful of capability

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far i don’t see why people would want this honestly but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody might i guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well remember marco that you cannot possibly do any kind of work on a mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unless you have asked unless you have an sd card slot so if you wanted to do any kind of work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a mac but pro you must have this dock otherwise it’s impossible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and honestly so so in the in the massive span of time since we’ve last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spoken on this podcast i did you know we traveled upstate to for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a for apparent christmas stuff and i had my laptop there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there was one point in which i had i had brought some every year making christmas video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and from from the previous christmas photos and and time laps is all the work she gets all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco credit anyway i bring with me on my laptop copies of all the videos so that way when we get there after we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shown to everybody we can then give everybody their own copy on the thumb drive that don’t go into your computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John one of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco film members has an i ipad one has a laptop and one has a thumb drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so this is okay this is like how you put you put the wolf on the boat and it’s like it’s this crazy thing it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like how do we put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the wolf in with the chicken right it’s like how do we get how do we get these files to these different things right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m sitting there on the couch with my new macbook and first my father in law brings

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down the the lightning card reader adapter with an sd card in it that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he uses in his ipad is can you put on here i look at the lightning and look at the sd card and i’m like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nope and then like my bro and then like you know and then i got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco handed this like usb key like the thumb drive thing uh no i guess i had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a dongle for that like i could go upstairs get the dongle and it’s like and it wasn’t it wasn’t that i didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco own the dongle and it wasn’t that i didn’t even have the dongle like technically with me on the trip but it was upstairs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i was downstairs and i was on a soft couch and it was christmas there there’s just going to be so many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of these times with these new macbook pros we are like even if it’s a minor inconvenience

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it still makes you regret the the limitations of this computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in use in practice i bet more often than apple might have might have estimated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by whatever data they were using to make this decision to omit all the useful stuff from this computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it there there are so many things about it that are nice like it like every you know every year we go to the same we go to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same place my in law’s place and and every year i have to plug in my laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and every year i had this weird layout where to reach the left side of her where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the charging board was where magsafe was had to kind of lean lap up in a strange way overnight when it’s charging

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this year i could use the other side which was really helpful and there’s going to be time but that where it’s nice to have charge you on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either side like that would be great right so you know it isn’t all bad and it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also really nice to have this thing be lighter as i was carrying it around the house and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know doing you know basic stuff like it was nice having it lighter so i appreciate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those things and i appreciate some of the progress but boy not having not having the sd

⏹️ ▶️ Marco card reader and at least one usb a port has already bitten

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me like more than once in these like little tiny like you know razor blade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cut ways like just just it it doesn’t leave me with a good taste of my mouth about this laptop overall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i

⏹️ ▶️ John think this this product however turns out to be in the market reveals some interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John things we’ve talked about before but this is like a concrete version of it the first is this is an

⏹️ ▶️ John extreme case of a naked robotic core thing applied to the mac which we talked about before

⏹️ ▶️ John the idea that if you just provide the core amount of functionality and let people add stuff on top of

⏹️ ▶️ John that that they might want so with the iphone it’s like we give you the skinniest little metal thing that you want and if you want

⏹️ ▶️ John extra battery or you want more protection or you know you want a place to put your credit cards or you want a rubbery outside

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever it is that you want to do to it everyone else can bring to it whatever they want you want it to be a different

⏹️ ▶️ John color or a different texture or whatever you can put that on but by making the smallest thing possible we will get to people

⏹️ ▶️ John who want a really small thing have a really small thing and people want something different everyone can apply but if we made a choice and

⏹️ ▶️ John added the big battery the people who wanted the skinnier one can have it and on and so forth so this thing being the naked robotic

⏹️ ▶️ John macbook pro if you want a bunch of ports you can slap it on the end

⏹️ ▶️ John and all the past all the past times we’ve talked about this is like yeah but if you add it on the outside

⏹️ ▶️ John because you have to have you know phone motherboard battery case

⏹️ ▶️ John ah you know inner case battery outer case like the extra layering requiring them

⏹️ ▶️ John both to be products in it of themselves the case is a product and the phone is a product that they have their own walls

⏹️ ▶️ John and the combination of all the walls is your total thickness it makes them bigger than if you said if you just took that

⏹️ ▶️ John amount of battery that’s in this battery case and put it inside the phone it wouldn’t be a thick so here we have a great example

⏹️ ▶️ John that these ports they’re adding if apple had put these inside the mace pro it would be thicker

⏹️ ▶️ John but it would not be this thick i mean you could look at they have the ethernet port is stacked up with the u s p

⏹️ ▶️ John c reports above it like these they can’t they can’t add you know they can’t violate the integrity of the case so you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John got the entire flat side thickness of the case and then what they have left to put their parts

⏹️ ▶️ John on is anything they can put below that they can’t combine them so this does show a

⏹️ ▶️ John the you know a very graphic illustration of the highlight of the naked robotic or strategy is that if you

⏹️ ▶️ John do add stuff i it will always necessarily be bigger than if it was built in and the second thing i think is that i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know if this was just someone making an estimation or if they say it in the copy as a real thing but i believe it they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John saying this makes your twenty sixteen slash twenty seventeen mac pro

⏹️ ▶️ John the same thickness as the twenty twelve model but we all look at this and it looks like that that comic illustration

⏹️ ▶️ John of the the power book g five to remember

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that oh yes

⏹️ ▶️ John photoshop it looks like it’s just comically thick like it’s like the size of

⏹️ ▶️ John a dictionary or phone book i don’t know if cannon what those are it’s a really thick book it

⏹️ ▶️ John looks it looks huge and yet this was the thickness of a product that apple sold

⏹️ ▶️ John not too long ago twenty twelve mac pro the people still have in like and often they say i’m sticking with my

⏹️ ▶️ John twenty twelve macbook pro is as all the ports i want or whatever this i think illustrates whatever which talked about

⏹️ ▶️ John you know that a hypocritical posta long ago about people complaining that the imac was getting too skinny when they

⏹️ ▶️ John they took away the optical drive and made it super skinny it’s like who the hell needs a super skinny imac what’s the point

⏹️ ▶️ John um and i transfer the phone to say look you have to go thinner year after year because

⏹️ ▶️ John even though from year to year the sacrifice doesn’t make that much of a difference you think

⏹️ ▶️ John oh what so it’s a few millimeters thicker multiply that by year after year after year and you will find yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John far from where you start it so in twenty twelve them shaving no meter off twenty thirteen and another millimeter off

⏹️ ▶️ John in twenty fourteen another mill it seems like what’s the point you’re just making my thing thinner in a way that i can even

⏹️ ▶️ John detect and i’m not getting any gains from it but like you said margo you appreciate the the

⏹️ ▶️ John lightness even just compared to your previous model which wasn’t that old imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John that you know what it would be like if you upgraded from a twenty twelve model to this and here we have a rewind

⏹️ ▶️ John button to go back to what it was like in twenty twelve and now you can’t go back now you say no that’s too far i can’t go back

⏹️ ▶️ John that far i don’t care how many ports you have it is too big and it is too heavy i know now that i

⏹️ ▶️ John know what’s possible i can’t go back to that again so there is something to

⏹️ ▶️ John be said for apple’s relentless pursuit of thinness i still don’t think they have had any sort of inflection point like

⏹️ ▶️ John my ah the thanos go back to is the the the credit card sized phone they just flutters to the

⏹️ ▶️ John ground and you don’t have to or about it cracking because no one worries about dropping their credit card on the ground and cracking it because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so frigging then we haven’t we haven’t got there yet we’re not even close but ah this

⏹️ ▶️ John this illustration and our journal disgust with it this product and are disgusted with how thick it is

⏹️ ▶️ John really hammers home the this tenet thing even though we complain about it

⏹️ ▶️ John the upsides aren’t just academic like once you become accustomed to it being that thin we want it to

⏹️ ▶️ John be that thin and also maybe have a nice car slot which by the way they could totally do because there’s plenty of um

⏹️ ▶️ John or add two millimetres out like you know we’re willing to bargain a millimeter too but none of us want to

⏹️ ▶️ John add you know half an inch to this thing because we just can’t go back to that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the way i can’t let this go without pointing out that this ancient thick twenty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco twelve macbook pro that they’re comparing this to was sold in the form of the one o one until like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two months ago yeah an optical drive plenty of room in it mm yeah no but i mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re right like i love the twenty twelve retina macbook price the fifteen inch red it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so nice it’s such an overall awesome machine but now that i’ve had this new one for one month

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the old one which i still have in my closet as i haven’t sold it yet i look at it and i pick it up every so often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like it feels ancient and it feels like a big heavy awkward

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lunch tray even though like a month ago i was like this is fine this doesn’t need to get any smaller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it really is all about what you are accustomed to and as soon as you get accustomed to this new one even though the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difference is in in weight and in thickness is not tremendous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is a savings that is noticeable and as soon as you start noticing it is really hard to ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go back and to have it feel normal i mean heck even the keyboard i hate the keyboard on the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one but when i use the keyboard in the open i’m like this is kind of mushy i’m ruined

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i’m completely ruined i still hate the new one keyboard wise but it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and honestly i think i would hate the new keyboard a lot less if they would give me back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the gaps above the left and right are ees that has bitten me more than any other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing about this keyboard like the key switches i still don’t like but i’ve gotten used to escape

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i have mapped to caps lock and it was a very easy transition the shaping of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco arrow keys and not having the little gaps above left and right the way they have been for years that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keeps messing me up so much because i can no longer orient myself on the arches

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by feel reliably and this as it turns out this is something i need quite frequently in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use i didn’t realize it until until i used one of these things for a while but wow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is that is that is a big change but yeah when you go back to the old one it’s like well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i don’t want even though it is in so many ways better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the quote mushy keyboard and you see the relatively tiny little you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quaint little track pad on there and you’re like wow this is like using a powerbook by comparison

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new thing really does feel so much newer and more modern even though in these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly large ways it is definitely worse this is one

⏹️ ▶️ John of the dangers of using ios or growing up with ios when i watch my son he’s mostly the one who

⏹️ ▶️ John has to do school assignments like these google docks and he writes school papers and stuff in it which is a pretty good

⏹️ ▶️ John system in terms of letting you know teachers and peers you know comment on and

⏹️ ▶️ John see the work anyway because

⏹️ ▶️ John he is a child of ios and a child of the post piece age watching him try to use

⏹️ ▶️ John a word processor on a mac just makes me want to tear my hair out because all

⏹️ ▶️ John of his cursor movement he does with the mouse

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco i see

⏹️ ▶️ John these keys on the keyboard with the arrows on them i swear to you they will move the insertion point one character

⏹️ ▶️ John easier than you finding where of the mouse is steering you she’s not over the mouse either steering your

⏹️ ▶️ John curse over moving it over to as like just use the don’t even say like option or command arrows

⏹️ ▶️ John just plain use the arrow gate like it is so much faster and forward delete and just like

⏹️ ▶️ John these amazing technologies that like watching him treat to or text editing because all he’s ever used to is the terrible text editing

⏹️ ▶️ John in iowa where you have to hold your stupid finger down you get that magnifying glass that also makes me want to tear my hair out um but

⏹️ ▶️ John even after i’ve shown the aries it’s not like he’s like thanks dad that’s a revelation i’m so much more efficient he’s like no i’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John go back to the house of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco kids

⏹️ ▶️ John these days some day they’ll learn about archies

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Polling pros on platform changes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco betterment investing made better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on prose leaving the mac apparently somebody has done a little bit of polling and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey research about um whether or not designers would ever consider motion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey designers specifically whatever that means would you ever consider switching to a pc yes forty two per cent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe forty percent no eighteen percent

⏹️ ▶️ John at this they just to reinforce the idea of said last show that like professional users

⏹️ ▶️ John whose job is to do like motion graphics they’re not mac users they’re motion graphic designers right this is

⏹️ ▶️ John what they do they think this means like motion in video you know like basically video effects or transitions

⏹️ ▶️ John during the news or whatever i think that’s what this means this is what this website is about it’s called school of motion dot com so

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s entirely a professional website for people who do this for a living it’s not about max it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John about computers it’s not about what tool used do for a living it’s like i want to do this for a living and then they talk about the tools

⏹️ ▶️ John that they use so they want to get the job done they don’t necessarily care about any particular insulting

⏹️ ▶️ John that the survey was would you consider switching to b c so it shows that in general the bent of the site it’s like oh

⏹️ ▶️ John we mostly use mac to do this and we talk about programs that are available on the mac to do it um like

⏹️ ▶️ John motion i think it’s still for sale anyway would you consider switching goose

⏹️ ▶️ John eighty two per cent are either yes or maybe only eighteen per cent say no because the bottom line is

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like well if that’s the way i have to go to do motion graphics i will do it

⏹️ ▶️ John because you know they’re not going to change a profession because the computer they like doesn’t let them do what

⏹️ ▶️ John they do they’re going to change platform so you know and then again like i said on the last

⏹️ ▶️ John show it doesn’t mean that every company that tries to make that transition will be successful it’s very you know disruptive

⏹️ ▶️ John to have to buy all new hardware and learn new programs and buy new licenses and deal with you know file

⏹️ ▶️ John formats and legacy data and all the other stuff but in general if a company

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t serve a professional market like that the market will switch very quickly because the

⏹️ ▶️ John market is not sentimental individual people may be sentimental even whole companies can be sentimental but the

⏹️ ▶️ John market in terms of i need a bunch of people to do job for me with computers is not sentimental and

⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t do the job someone else will and whatever to get the job done

Casey and Marco’s homework

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right so the next item in the list scares me deeply me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John says

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it says casey and marco’s homework and i think i can speak for marco and saying well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe not i don’t remember that might be just me but i can speak for marco and saying i didn’t do my homework

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco what was i suppose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what was i supposed to have been doing that could always speak for me casey that that part i was confident it was the remembering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey part i wasn’t as sure about i also don’t remember what the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco homework was

⏹️ ▶️ John i felt bad because i was listening back to the show well to so people were tweeting at us like i

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t wait to hear casey and marco and the homework and by that point i’d forgotten what i

⏹️ ▶️ John had designed you for homework but i remember doing it but i did it mostly as a joke because we are

⏹️ ▶️ John we know that you guys don’t do hunt homework so when i was listening back to the show as i do i was reminded of what

⏹️ ▶️ John the homework was but listeners maybe their new listeners they somehow thought that you were going to actually do

⏹️ ▶️ John this home remember what the homework was come to the show ready to

⏹️ ▶️ John have the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco homework was very optimistic

⏹️ ▶️ John the homework was the idea of trying to say trying to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John how you would distinguish between the situation where the world is moving on from pcs

⏹️ ▶️ John and we are just being left behind because we are dinosaurs or a situation where apple is foolishly

⏹️ ▶️ John abandoning the mac market even though the the concept of a pc style computer

⏹️ ▶️ John has many many years to go in apples making a mistake and the idea from the perspective of someone who loves

⏹️ ▶️ John mac those can both look the same from the inside what might you look for how what might

⏹️ ▶️ John you look for from the inside to try to distinguish those two situations what like is there something because

⏹️ ▶️ John they feel the same and they look the same but is there some kind of thing you could look at to

⏹️ ▶️ John say okay well if it if it was the case that we were being left behind as dinosaurs we would see this but if it turns out that apple is actually

⏹️ ▶️ John making a mistake we would see that instead is there anything we can look for to let us know

⏹️ ▶️ John which list of things are i couldn’t think of anything on the show and so i signed it as homework and you two probably forgot about it

⏹️ ▶️ John but i don’t suppose you have any interesting thoughts on it now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not really i mean i don’t really care what the difference there is i want what i want and if apple is not going to provide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what i’m going to yell about it

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah no i mean that is true i’m not saying you don’t have i’m just saying like i think it’s interesting too because i am interested

⏹️ ▶️ John in whether it’s it’s the most difficult to be objective about something that you

⏹️ ▶️ John know you care deeply about but it makes you kind of an enemy of

⏹️ ▶️ John progress if you know you know if the whatever the buggy whip salesman

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever it’s like you know or as casey was saying the stick shift thing where

⏹️ ▶️ John if you know are you are you using your influence to actually stop the future

⏹️ ▶️ John from coming or are you right and that’s not actually the future and really apple’s just doing something dumb and i think it makes

⏹️ ▶️ John a difference between i don’t want to use all my power and influence and arguing

⏹️ ▶️ John skills to try to hold back progress right so i would like to know if

⏹️ ▶️ John i am not that i’m not going to be upset about it but i would like to know if i am actually

⏹️ ▶️ John the enemy of progress here by clinging to the idea of the personal computer right

⏹️ ▶️ John and so i am interested in being able to determine what the situation is now

⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like i’m not particularly strongly on either side of this so i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think this is for me personally a situation and maybe marco doesn’t care but i think it is

⏹️ ▶️ John i think it’s a thing worth considering for not just for for you know silly new york

⏹️ ▶️ John in the magazines but for all things of this type especially as we get older very often what you really

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want is for things to be different than than you’re used to and it’s very easy to

⏹️ ▶️ John decide that your desire to not have things change trumps everything

⏹️ ▶️ John else and that’s not you know i believe in progress and

⏹️ ▶️ John i constantly want to make sure that i am not slowly shifting to the

⏹️ ▶️ John opposite side of progress because when you see it from the outside and you see somebody who is an obvious enemy

⏹️ ▶️ John of progress and doesn’t realize it it’s a pitiable situation i never want to be in that situation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well you know i think it’s somewhat useful to look around and to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like all right i have these like opinions on how the types of work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that i do the types of problems that i need to solve how these things should or need to be done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know obviously one of the biggest things you could say is will look around at other people who have similar problems are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they insisting on the same requirements are they are they doing things that way or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did they move to something else a long time ago and you didn’t and they are now getting along

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just fine without the like doing the same kinds of things that you want to do but in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a in a in the new you know quote progress way you know obviously it’s hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make this apply to everything and looking around you know it’s hard for people to have a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good data on like you know what a lot of people are doing because it’s you know mostly just aunt dota well i look around and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i see like the other people in my office are doing this or my parents are doing this or my kids are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing this or whatever you know you could look at or you have a few friends you can look at it like most people have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty small sample group they can draw from for that kind of analysis but i think sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s enough you know like i think if you if you can look around you can see like am i the last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco person doing this this way you know like the then that’s that’s probably a sign that you are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the wrong side of things but if there is still like if the if what you are defending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is still done by what seems like the majority of people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who do that kind of thing then you might still be wrong like you know you might be at the very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beginning of a wave and just everyone else hasn’t realized it yet either but chances are you’re probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least a little bit right chances are that you know you’re probably on the right side of that at least for now you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it might be something that’s really forward looking that everyone’s missing but that doesn’t happen very often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone thinks it happens a lot but it doesn’t happen very often in reality

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i was um i was actually having an interesting conversation with a friend of mine earlier earlier tonight about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whether or not well he said to me something i thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was very interesting and he said the mac or not the mac excuse me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey desktop oses are a solved problem and i think he was being a little bit i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know if dramatic is the right word but he was kind of playing up his point of view a little bit right to make a point

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but he was he saying you know desktop less or solve problem and and at first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i was like what no god no what are you talking about but as i thought about it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i still disagree with him and and again i think he was just making the point to kind of play devil’s advocate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but i understand where he’s coming from in that if you look at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what do we want from a desktop os and and he asked me that actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and what i said to him was i just want it not to be ignored man like i just want progress

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but if you look at it there’s been progress like siri doesn’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do anything for me on the desktop but that’s progress that’s a big deal and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a single data point but it’s an example of things that are happening everyone has been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey moaning lately about how messages hasn’t been touched on sierra that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John just not right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the the rich previews or however you phrase it where for example you paste the link

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to a tweet and you see the tweet in the in the messages window

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like granted i wish i had sticker support in in sierra like i totally do i don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that i would use it that often but i just wish i had the support for it right but even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something as or are arguably silly as rich previews and messages

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes a world of difference in that progress and so to me i think just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not even necessarily bringing ios into macos but just having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that continued incremental improvement that’s all i really want from stops right now and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to that end my friend was kind of right that in a large way it’s kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a solved problem now in the next breath i’ll tell you what is it really a solved problem look at the touch bar this is brand new paradigm that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just came out we don’t really know what we’re doing with that so obviously this is a very shaky argument but when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you compare that to ios where there’s plenty of work left to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey done certainly ios is in many ways the more interesting platform

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now i’m not necessarily saying interesting to me i’m not saying interesting to everyone because personally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i still like the mac i still prefer the mac we went over this either last episode last or the episode before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um but there’s a lot more progress to be made and i look at people like ben brooks i look at petite

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and i look at mike hurley and i see them doing everything in their jobs or nearly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything on ios devices and i come to kind of what john was saying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a minute ago am i the one that’s telling everyone to get off the get off my lawn like am i the one that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really holding on to the past and i’m not saying that is the case but i am definitely wondering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and to more directly answer john’s question how to do we know which one of these it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m not sure but right now i can tell you that it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seems to me like there are some pretty direct ways

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to accomplish things on the mac um and i can’t think of a great example of top of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my head but but there you can accomplish a lot of things on the map directly where in i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey o s you need to like daisy chain seven different apps to make the same operation happen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that doesn’t mean that i s is wrong but to me as long as that’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the case as long as you still have to write a custom workflow to get something to happen in the work flow up which by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the way is truly mind boggling amazing but as long as that’s how you get things done like that is the official

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way to get things done on i o s i don’t think that the mac is dead quite

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet and i’m i’m not even talking about like writing code or anything like that i’m just talking about like general

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things that that professionals do and you can define professionals professional podcasters as professional

⏹️ ▶️ Casey project managers as c m os whatever ben brooks title is i don’t even remember anymore um

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but if they’re jumping through hoops in order to get their work done even if they don’t necessarily feel like it’s jumping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey through hoops it’s still daisy chaining a bunch of different steps together as long as that’s still a thing i don’t think the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mac is dead but when that stops being a thing or it becomes even easier to kind of daisy chain all these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things when you’re not writing custom workflows because apps are supporting it then i start to wonder

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe i’m the old man here after all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well this is why i think it’s important to to really make these these observational

⏹️ ▶️ Marco comparisons which i guess recalled observations on people who do the same kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work that you do right like people you mentioned are podcasters and writers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the podcasters all still use max to podcast with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not not all podcasters but the ones you mentioned and you know a writer can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get away with using i o s only or primarily a lot more easily than a programmer can today

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know so i think once people like you know you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i the three of us are all programmers once a whole bunch of programmers dump

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their pcs and macs and do do all of their work on ios then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think we have to start looking okay you know this there’s a thing here we should we should consider this we should pay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco attention to this and maybe we are wrong at that point but until that happens which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might never come again i want to be very careful here and how i phrase this like you know you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said like you know like you know the mac is dead and mac is in dead until this happens and a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people you know the you phrase these things in a way that that presents them as an inevitable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco future but i do want to i do want to be clear here that when i talk about this i am not necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco considering this an inevitable future the future i mean you know obviously os

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is eventually do die and and you know fall into favor and fall to use and maintenance but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i am still not yet convinced that the pc style operating system is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco destined to to be you know sidelined and killed in favor of the mobile

⏹️ ▶️ Marco style operating system within the foreseeable future like eventually on an infinite time scale it might happen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you know i don’t i don’t see this as like the obvious you know foretold future that is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is certain to happen but anyway i think you really have to just look at like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know people who do the kind of work you do and most of the people who were talking about going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ios only or i was being in the evita le future most of these people are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco writers and analysts and executives and that’s fine and there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of people who who that will be fine for but if you start talking to people who do different kinds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of things with their computers including things that we all that all three of us do ah then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you start very quickly to hit limits of like oh well you kind of can’t do that on i o s yet or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you that’s really difficult and clunky to do on i o s i don’t think you can look at a bunch of people who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco professionally write as their main job and and say like well they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all using ipads therefore i should be using an ipad you be you should be more concerned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if people who do the kinds of things you do like programming if they switch and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s when you should pay attention

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i largely agree with you but i don’t think it’s fair to classify federico mike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and ben brooks all is simply writers i mean i think they’re doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco i didn’t say simply

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey well that’s important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here it’s a job that is very amenable to ios primary or iowa’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only work and there are a lot of jobs which is the case but there’s a lot where it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t also

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah i guess my point is that i don’t want to paint the image because i can hear mike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey curly and frederico screaming at us from the future it’s not that all they do is right you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s it’s they’re they’re doing sometimes relatively intense you know spreadsheet work i mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey look at the quarterly earnings reports that federico you’ll fart out in the span at of like four seconds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because all the work flows he’s he’s built and and you know mike and and and stephen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hackett are you know billing or invoicing advertisers and doing all sorts of like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey traditional business y things so i don’t agree with you that that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is mostly writer like things on the surface but there’s a lot more to it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you start digging in but that doesn’t negate your point that the these people with the exception perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of federico actually these people are not developers they’re not writing code well except federico

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there device

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco frederic a liar in a lot of ways yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i agree i agree but um but yeah it’s not the sort of thing that the three of us do but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i don’t want to discount it in summary as as legitimate work that is more than just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey writing prose on a piece of paper that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i never said legitimate or simple like i’m not seeing it yet i’m not i’m not characterizing it this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way it’s just different software needs and different different things you need from your computing devices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and different levels of of like flexibility and access to things like files

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and inter inter program communication and the integration of lots of things within the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dataset like what you need with programming and like the you know there are certain strength and winces to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both os styles but again you know i think when people who do the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kinds of things you do are switching in mass that’s when to pay attention before that happens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and unless that happens i don’t think you need to be worried too much that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you are the dentist or holding back progress also it’s quite impressive that john thinks that we can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hold back progress but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco now i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just saying like what are you spending your time doing is like i said if you see somebody yelling against it even if they if they don’t actually

⏹️ ▶️ John do anything it is not it seems like they’re they’re wasting their time and it’s a sad situation

⏹️ ▶️ John where they don’t realize that the world is passing them by the em one more item on this that i think about

⏹️ ▶️ John is sort of the second level version of checking yourself which is

⏹️ ▶️ John more focused on apple the company and less focused on

⏹️ ▶️ John whether what the future of computing is and that is the question of

⏹️ ▶️ John whether it’s important for apple to be in the

⏹️ ▶️ John personal computer market so even if you see everything that margo said like okay well people doing these types

⏹️ ▶️ John of jobs still need pc or whatever is it the best thing for the company called

⏹️ ▶️ John apple does it need to be in the pc market and that’s where we talk about like oh well they need you

⏹️ ▶️ John know the mac of developer so what if they have a development environment on ipads but it’s not the same baba could you develop

⏹️ ▶️ John ios applications on bcs like that’s the next question is even if you stipulate pieces

⏹️ ▶️ John aren’t going away any time soon should apple continue to sell pieces is the mac

⏹️ ▶️ John only hanging around for old time’s sake and tradition and affection

⏹️ ▶️ John but but it would be better for the company to allow all

⏹️ ▶️ John the people who develop rios to do so on a platform that someone else maintains and

⏹️ ▶️ John really in us arguing for apple to say in the market really we’re just trying to like you know i mean we made

⏹️ ▶️ John the argument on times like every every other alternative is worse so we would be sad but

⏹️ ▶️ John from the perspective of apple the company they may say yes every we agree every alternative

⏹️ ▶️ John is worse than the mac but the mac is no longer worth the money for us to invest in rather than letting it limp

⏹️ ▶️ John along with us never updating our our stuff and you being all mad about it why don’t we just get out of that business the same

⏹️ ▶️ John way we get out of printers and wifi hubs and whatever the hell they’re not in and won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John that be refreshing we can finally concentrate on the thing we do best which is the iphone with some ancillary

⏹️ ▶️ John is type things and blah blah blah i think you know obviously i disagree with that

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever that’s that’s i still keep it in mind as the second the second possibility

⏹️ ▶️ John the first being that you know that you know we’re on the wrong side of history and is the second is we’re on the right side of history

⏹️ ▶️ John but just because we love apple just because it’s the best it would actually be better for the company

⏹️ ▶️ John apple to get out of this business so i could concentrate on the other stuff which again i don’t buy

⏹️ ▶️ John but i still i still entertain that as a thought experiment that i that i revisit to make sure that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not the case because that can sneak up on you too where you’re like you feel so strongly that you’re right that like look everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John who is editing video is doing it in a big powerful personal computer persecutors can’t go away i’m a video editor i need

⏹️ ▶️ John to edit video i look at all the the people who are adding video and no one’s doing on an ipad clearly the pieces a thing and

⏹️ ▶️ John then to make the leap therefore apple needs to make a new mac pro does apple need to make a macro or do you

⏹️ ▶️ John just need to switch to windows and be sad you know because again pros will use whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John they have to use to get the job done and the more like an appliance this was talking about when marker was talking about like

⏹️ ▶️ John getting the server so the more you use a computer like an appliance to get your job done as

⏹️ ▶️ John a as a professional the less tied you are effectively if not emotionally to the particular

⏹️ ▶️ John platform using so if you’re just going to be in light room all day and the surface studio is the best you know

⏹️ ▶️ John dedicated light room appliance you go into the office sit down and for all you do is lightroom lightroom light from all day long

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe that is better than any solution apple has to offer and maybe apple staying in that business is just some sentimental thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that you care about but realistically speaking we would all be much happier if apple got out of it and stop making that line of computers entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John and you just sat down in front of your service studio and gave that business to microsoft some company that is actually interested

⏹️ ▶️ John in pursuing it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah well as soon as apple starts being managed by the numbers that way they are going to find themselves

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i think in a very boring and slowly declining place whether the numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suggest so or not that is a very very fast way to become microsoft with under steve balmer i’m tent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that’s you know there was this wonderful um steve jobs video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that flutter and read it a couple of weeks ago about how like you know it took like five it takes like five years to realize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like when the bit flips and you start like making computers just to make money and not to make better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers or something like that i’m probably butchering it he

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco also

⏹️ ▶️ John said he would milk the mac for all worth and move on to the next big thing and guess what the mac is it’s not like an analogy

⏹️ ▶️ John he was talking about specifically the mac the mac we’re talking about now milk it for all worth move onto the next thing and it’s clear

⏹️ ▶️ John he thought the next thing was the iphone and the ipad and it’s pretty clear the next thing is the iphone the pet but we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John still making mac so in some ways it would be like pursuing your passion not continuing to make the mac just because

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve always made it if the company itself is enthusiastic about iowa’s devices only then

⏹️ ▶️ John continuing to make max in a disappointing way you know it’s it’s not as if like oh well you’re just going to go if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to go by the number you say oh i should go where the big business but maybe the maybe the passion is just not in it anymore for the macs

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they see it as a declining business they are not interested in and isn’t it better for all of us

⏹️ ▶️ John to divorce this dysfunctional relationship stop making the mac force everybody to go to windows which

⏹️ ▶️ John will or whatever which will force more money into that market that will hopefully motivate microsoft to make the surface studio

⏹️ ▶️ John better you know again i’m not recommending any of this just as are all thought experiments and all things that i revisit

⏹️ ▶️ John i revisit and mostly reject but if you never revisit them you’ll they’ll sneak up on you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well but here here’s the problem with this thinking so you start running the company by the numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you think well it’ll be fine well you know we’ll we’ll let the mac languish or we’ll kill

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it because it’s not you know it’s not where we want to go or whatever whatever the reason doesn’t matter but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not but the number says they’re not passionate about it is the past and they’re they’re passionate about the future so they’re running it by

⏹️ ▶️ John their passion they’re not they’re not being a slave to the past they’re saying what we’re interested in is i don’t know maybe they’re interested

⏹️ ▶️ John in ar or whatever but you know that maybe they’re not interested in the mac any more so i would say it’s the opposite of running both

⏹️ ▶️ John because the numbers would tell you why throw away twenty two billion dollar business right that’s just that’s free money why are you throwing

⏹️ ▶️ John it away and say we’re throwing it away so we can concentrate more fully on the thing that we really believe in the future which is the

⏹️ ▶️ John opposite of steve ballmer steve ballmer will keep them going forever and just do exactly what the customers wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John forever and ever as the rest of the world moves on you know what i mean i feel like that’s more of the steve balmer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or an apple would definitely not keep southern same products forever

⏹️ ▶️ John no i mean like it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco turns

⏹️ ▶️ John like you know of of trying to do what that market wants exactly like they would be giving us

⏹️ ▶️ John big macs with lots of ports and you know constantly revising them and just sat like making

⏹️ ▶️ John them satisfied in the way that like you know i b m mainframe customers are satisfied the i octane to make mainframes

⏹️ ▶️ John for its mainframe customers and give them exactly what they want all the while the whole rest of the world is moving

⏹️ ▶️ John on from mainframes but they don’t know they’re like is fine you they keep making us better and better mainframes and we love mainframes

⏹️ ▶️ John and they wake up one day and the entire world has moved on and they’re like wait is only like ten of us left but

⏹️ ▶️ John we were so happy for all these years and we were happy to give i b m all this money and they kept making these also mean for insurance

⏹️ ▶️ John and the world has moved on past you right so that i feel like that’s more of a balmer thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fair but everything you’re saying about the mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what happens when they apply that exact same logic to the iphone

⏹️ ▶️ John but they can’t i mean if they are no longer passionate about the iphone and they think the next big thing is something

⏹️ ▶️ John else you know then they should like it it’s exactly the same thing as steve the steve jobs saying like milk the mac for

⏹️ ▶️ John als worth move on to the next big thing eventually it’s milk the iphone for allworth move on to the next big thing is if

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t someone else will like someone else will eat your lunch if you don’t eat you know cannibalizing your business apple is

⏹️ ▶️ John the one who cannibalized its own eye pod sails apple didn’t cannibalize ipod sails the sails cure for ipods

⏹️ ▶️ John would look like the same big hump with spikes on it for the holidays it would look exactly the same but someone else

⏹️ ▶️ John would have replaced it whether its samsung or microsoft or whoever whoever would have won that war if apple

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t cannibalize the ipod someone else would so it’s not like apple bank the company on the ipod it said it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to be ipod forever and the people were saying the ipad is going to dwarf the mac and now apple is just an ipod company and

⏹️ ▶️ John the apple store is the ipod store right apple is the one who cannibalized the ipod it turns out the ipod

⏹️ ▶️ John arc was obviously shorter than we think the iphone arc is going to be the iphone arc and last our whole lives for all

⏹️ ▶️ John we know right or longer um but that’s that’s the challenging of the innovator’s dilemma and all

⏹️ ▶️ John that other crap that’s the challenge of business and the mac in all these grasses this aberration

⏹️ ▶️ John that never goes up and never goes down but just keeps on trucking and i think they’re you know again

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m not i’m playing devil’s advocate i’m just saying this year these are things that are worth thinking about i don’t find them

⏹️ ▶️ John convincing if i had to make the argument i would say apple needs to continue making the mac and should do much better job at it because

⏹️ ▶️ John the time has not come because i mostly am on the same page as market like other

⏹️ ▶️ John people who are doing these tasks are not currently using anything that’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John like a pc they’re using pcs to do them like they’re not using surface tablets they’re not using at this point

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re still not using the surface studio they’re using pcs whether their windows pc or unix

⏹️ ▶️ John workstations running maya or max they’re just not using ipads to do these

⏹️ ▶️ John jobs right and that’s i think that is you know that mark didn’t do his homework but he came up with with

⏹️ ▶️ John a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John last minute scribbling while the teachers coming around and collecting the papers how i got through school

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah i think that is a thing to look for and you have to be careful because if you’re just looking at the people who

⏹️ ▶️ John are like hanging out in the same circles as you then it’s all like sort of self selecting it’s like well all my friends still use pcs

⏹️ ▶️ John but maybe every kid graduating school is doing you know like for example digital video like

⏹️ ▶️ John if every kid graduating film school is shooting digital video and editing dilated and you’re like well all my friends

⏹️ ▶️ John are still shooting on film so films never going to die you’re you’re being blind you’re missing it right but i think in this

⏹️ ▶️ John case for the jobs that we’re talking about certain programming because i think we have a good view on that not just for s

⏹️ ▶️ John and mac programming but in all realms that serious programming is still done in pc style

⏹️ ▶️ John devices video editing for the most part it’s still done in pc style devices but you got to want you watch the kids watch the

⏹️ ▶️ John kids coming into film school are there are they editing their film school project on an ipad

⏹️ ▶️ John or on a surface studio or on anything like that uh you know that’s that’s sort of like the leading

⏹️ ▶️ John indicator and that’s the thing to watch for it i think right now the answer is that pc style computers are still

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing to do my big fear is that apple decides that it’s not worth them being in the business i don’t i don’t particularly have a fear

⏹️ ▶️ John fear that in the near future the pc style of computing is going to go away i have a fear the apple

⏹️ ▶️ John personal computer meaning the mac is going to go away because apple doesn’t care about it or

⏹️ ▶️ John neglect it to the point and that’s the worst case scenario where you still have to use a pc but you no longer

⏹️ ▶️ John get to choose the mac because it’s you know it’s no longer any good for you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s when i switched to linux god

⏹️ ▶️ Casey help us all a quick side note about that though john i had some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey coworkers at the last gig that did use surface tablets to do their work like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to write code to do their work to do that was their computer there were only a couple of them and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i think by and large they kind of regretted their decision but in that sense it is happening

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is a thing that happens from time

⏹️ ▶️ John recall that i keep putting the surface into but i’m thinking more of like using the touch interface to the surface

⏹️ ▶️ John even more the surface studio where you where you are touching the screen in many respects the surface books

⏹️ ▶️ John and all that stuff they’re just a convertible laptop like it’s muddled by the fact that the windows

⏹️ ▶️ John is this unified platform but yet i have people at work who do programming stuff on surfaces too but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just a laptop is at that point it’s like a weird laptop with a bendy hinge and it’s running windows

⏹️ ▶️ John and the running terminal stuff and they have a keyboard and they have a track pad pointing device and yeah they also

⏹️ ▶️ John have a pen and yet can kind of be a tablet but essentially they’re using a laptop like the they have they have windows

⏹️ ▶️ John with tidal bars and scroll bars like it’s you know it’s confusing because

⏹️ ▶️ John of the way microsoft has done its unified os strategy but i would still totally classify those as

⏹️ ▶️ John pc style because it is very distinct from the ios style even when i see my daughter she’s got like a

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard logic keyboard thing for bed even when she does you know form of laptop with her

⏹️ ▶️ John you know that’s one of twins for you you guys miss that show anyway um when she

⏹️ ▶️ John makes a little laptop out of her ipad and her keyboard there’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John still not a laptop yes it looks like one yes there’s a kind of vertical screen and a horizontal ish

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard but there’s no pointer on her screen she’s not using a track but there are no windows there are no

⏹️ ▶️ John scroll bars and scroll thumbs there’s no menu bar along the top of it is not a pc computing experience

⏹️ ▶️ John she’s not you know like it’s yeah we live in a strange time we live in a

⏹️ ▶️ John strange transitional time but some things defy categorization but i think the sailing

⏹️ ▶️ John at points like what makes it a pc and what makes it a pc style computing environment

⏹️ ▶️ John are pretty clear for me obviously it’s all about windows because ah what the hell imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John if the twenty eight inch surface studio did not have windows

⏹️ ▶️ John like everything was full screen or split screen like it does in the eye pad we would say this is the biggest

⏹️ ▶️ John waste of a twenty eight inch screen in the world unless you’re only ever in one ap doing light room all the time then fine

⏹️ ▶️ John but for a general purpose computing device getting back to marco’s idea that you can do more than one thing at a time

⏹️ ▶️ John a a general purpose computing device that could only show absent full screen on a twenty inch display

⏹️ ▶️ John is just a very wrong headed idea and i would say that’s not pc computing that’s more like i was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s a question where in what product is apple really like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stepping on the gas and really firing on all cylinders

⏹️ ▶️ Casey airpods i know it’s not a valid answer in this context but i cannot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stop talking about how much i love my airpods

⏹️ ▶️ John i would say the iphone i mean i know i think the last show i recently listened to it so it’s fresh in my mind that

⏹️ ▶️ John marco said like oh the new iphone seven like internally the changes aren’t that big like look at the graphs man

⏹️ ▶️ John like every part of this every part of this that can be better computing wise and capacity wise

⏹️ ▶️ John is better by leaps and bounds by like nineties error pc leaps and bounds like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the the cp is not just a little bit faster the gp is not just a little bit faster the

⏹️ ▶️ John flash capacity is like the max you know isn’t it double like you can only get one twenty eight last year now you can get two fifty

⏹️ ▶️ John six ah it’s fantastically better internal and you know the only

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that’s not you know better about it by oh they’re not standing the gases like oh the case

⏹️ ▶️ John is the same shape and even there they you know they changed the surface in such a way that marcos was saying it is his

⏹️ ▶️ John favorite product of last year because it made such a difference in day to day use

⏹️ ▶️ John um so i still think iphone is is you know pull to the metal and airpods are part

⏹️ ▶️ John of that as part of their weird headphone thing which by the way has bitten me i don’t have a usb c laptop but

⏹️ ▶️ John i’ve been bitten by the headphones thing like five times recently where i thought

⏹️ ▶️ John i had everything i needed i was going to plug a headphone in and realized even on the plane coming back

⏹️ ▶️ John i brought the adapter for me to use my noise canceling headphones but then my daughter wanted to use a some headphones

⏹️ ▶️ John too and plugin it’s like oh well i only have one adapter like you always you always think you have everything

⏹️ ▶️ John you need but here just use oh never mind or gone on a car trip and you know before

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’ve got a plug in my wife’s old car she just had ox in with like a headphone port and i brought my

⏹️ ▶️ John eye pod with me or my phone with me and we can listen to like the podcast that i’m in the middle of and we get

⏹️ ▶️ John in the car and start driving away and i grab the little ox cord from the center console and pick it up and go no

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no place i can plug that into my phone and of course i’m not carrying the adapter around with me um so

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah the struggle is real as they say

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John’s homework

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right in a bit of follow up speaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco we’re almost well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is one of those episodes where follow up isn’t exactly follow up which is probably most episodes anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh same balsa mid who is a co host of the wheel bearings podcast which if you ever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanted neutral but with people who actually knew what they were talking about you should look up wheel bear that’s pretty good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway he writes in to say the twenty sixteen twenty seventeen mater cords do indeed support both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey carplay and android auto as do most new hondas the only hondas that are still waiting for android auto

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and carplay update are the fit and the h r v i’m not sure what that is i know the c r v but h i

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know what the h r v is a bad it’s terrible but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway the twenty eighteen odyssey is debuting in a couple of weeks of detroit at the detroit auto

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show so that makes me think that tina’s car does indeed have carplay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does it

⏹️ ▶️ John not so here’s here’s the question i’ve never used car play i’ve seen pictures of it online

⏹️ ▶️ John and i think i’ve even seen like screenshots of like marco’s car play stuff and i’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ John marco’s disembodied car play testing what you right but i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know how carplay works do i have to download an app onto my phone called carplay no so i just

⏹️ ▶️ John you think i if i just plug a phone into my wife’s car with a wire because we don’t have the wireless version

⏹️ ▶️ John that something will happen on the screen to indicate you are in car play now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apparently if you just plug it in there’ll be one of those alerts like a computer where it says

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you trust this car or something like that and then magic happens now i’ve not witnesses myself this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is real time follow up but that’s what i’m being told do i trust

⏹️ ▶️ John this car last time tina was saying there was only on a certain trim levels bottom line is this is like the

⏹️ ▶️ John shorteners cat of carplay support until i actually try it her car both has

⏹️ ▶️ John carplay support and doesn’t have carplay support but seriously i did had not occurred to me

⏹️ ▶️ John to think like do i have to download an app and once i download the app do i do a thing or is it just plugging

⏹️ ▶️ John it in and i think basically we’ve never actually plugged any of our iphones into

⏹️ ▶️ John her car because it’s all been both so it could be that that’s wholly right and as soon as i plugged it in john

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how do you not know this already i won’t be the first

⏹️ ▶️ John thing i tried i’ve driven that car onto an and off of the driveway like twice that’s how far

⏹️ ▶️ John i’ve driven that car

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why don’t you just go outside right now and give it a shot i’m kind of not i’m really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go give it won’t take too long it’ll take just a minute

⏹️ ▶️ John all right i’ll i’ll be back hang

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on so literally as i’m saying this tina is sending me a text

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying that it is not a thing ah hold on i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looking up the the h r v it’s it looks basically like the honda x one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey okay a standard on accord ex ex l in touring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i think she doesn’t have the ex so i think it’s optional for her trim is it just not there or is it optional

⏹️ ▶️ Marco says that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey we do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that i don’t know what is what is it honda u s a i hate that whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you go to like honda or audi or whatever it’s the corporate this is the most american thing i think i’ve ever said

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why does it not go why does it not go directly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to america it’s just like in the country list drop downs why are we not the first sign listed like i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey alphabetic were like this is barbaric do i really have to screw like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how likely is it that i’m actually from like you know any of these other places like just put the put the us on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco top for all the stupid arrogant americans and put everything else below

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i am fully behind this tina saying there was no option it’s a she

⏹️ ▶️ Casey she does not have any acts it’s sport special it was not an option there’s basically no options period anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my guess john went outside in the cold in the winter for no reason oh well i’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he won’t be mad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i’m now getting yelled at viena that nobody wants to believe her i did believe you tina we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just wanted to send

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john outside that too this is basically every conversation i’ve had with erin ever aaron tells

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me this is not a thing or this is a thing now you’ve got to be wrong oh it turns out you’re right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey every conversation i’ve ever had with aaron

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yeah i believe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we have words for this one of the more charitable ones would probably be man mansplaining

⏹️ ▶️ John the magic of technology here’s what happened

⏹️ ▶️ John so i go to the car and i get all my stuff from my cables and everything and i plug

⏹️ ▶️ John you know the car turned on i plug the thing in i wait to see something pop up on my phone

⏹️ ▶️ John screen nothing ever pops up wait a couple seconds and i hear you two talking

⏹️ ▶️ John about what i’m doing right now

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey like talking going to the carrier

⏹️ ▶️ John and the honda website and stuff like that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ina’s phone popped on right latina

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John wife upstairs

⏹️ ▶️ John on bluetooth and the cars paired with her phone and so for a second i’m like

⏹️ ▶️ John what the worst the magic of bluetooth

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway my result of the short experiment was that plugging

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco in

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone does nothing i was not prompted to do anything i couldn’t find anything in any of the menus that mentioned carplay

⏹️ ▶️ John or anything about carpet i could connect my phone by blue juice but that’s not how carplay works it’s not a bluetooth audio

⏹️ ▶️ John thing so a inconclusive results but at the very least merely plugging my phone

⏹️ ▶️ John and did nothing while you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were gone i’m pretty sure we found out that your wife was right the whole time and you didn’t even need to go outside

⏹️ ▶️ John thanks sam guy on the car podcast who knows something supposedly your wife knows better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m sure we’ll get some feedback on this one amazingly sometimes we don’t know what we’re talking about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is why we used to do a car show kids people love when you don’t know what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s i reject this characterization i know a lot about i know a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco about what

⏹️ ▶️ John i was talking about you too keep saying that about yourselves but i reject that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh god this this episode is speaking is turning turning up to be quite

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the time we just have like no structure this week there’s i mean we

⏹️ ▶️ John did follow up with all those items were legit follow up

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey was even homework and

⏹️ ▶️ John man they went long sometimes salt goes long but you know that tends to happen after lots of stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John builds up if we haven’t recorded for a while

This week’s sad Mac posts

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ John problem the problematic part we have here is as we transition to topic go look what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John lurking there as look at the notes the very first item who put that in there how is that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey going to go to be casey did you put that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in there yes i don’t think i want to talk about it then

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just like it’s the same thing we’ve been talking about for the past month on the show i don’t feel like i read what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey parts of that article on but stop

⏹️ ▶️ John before you deleted it but um oh god here

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is

⏹️ ▶️ John there anything in that article that is not something that we’ve already talked about that’s my only question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably not so the article in question hopefully we’ll cut this from the show but the article

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco now we’re talking about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah chuck von ros patch i’ve probably pronounced that wrong i apologize but anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Casey his apple twenty sixteen year in review which tldr some things suck

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some things don’t but it’s a great post

⏹️ ▶️ John it is yeah i mean it’s good it’s totally good you know he’s he’s expressing in a much more dustin way

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey position is not necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the word i how to use it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well it’s more

⏹️ ▶️ John sustain than like hours and hours of audio but like you know we’re both we’re all mac fans

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re all kind of experiencing some dissatisfaction with the treatment of the mac and we’ve talked about it at

⏹️ ▶️ John length and this was his take on it and it was good and it was articulate and it was an expression of his his opinion and

⏹️ ▶️ John his desires and his hopes and dreams and it was a good post but for the purposes of discussion on the show i’m wondering

⏹️ ▶️ John if it is bringing any new angle that we haven’t already given our opinions on umpteen times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah and since we’ll be asked about it um god who was the there this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hold on one sec and chris

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco adamson autum chris yes create the post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also very good although i honestly i don’t know if the mac pro was the best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco choice there but we’re seeing now from a lot of people saying similar things this is not a coincidence

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not an accident this is not a a trend or people being wrong this is like legitimately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple is causing concern in many of its customers and many of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco its best biggest fans and longest time customers and so you know i think if i can if i can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco summarize it in a very quick way or at least i try to put a cap on this for now twenty seventeen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going to be a very important year for apple to prove a lot of big things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the market and to its customers right now there’s a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things were where the the answer from apple so far is either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco silence or like just wait you know like wait till we see what we have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next or something like that twenty seventeen a lot of the stuff is coming due you know like if twenty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seventeen passes through the whole year and there isn’t like a major new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iphone design and there isn’t some answer to the mac pro and there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t maybe better quarterly earnings these are some pretty big things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there have been bad signs on these fronts for the last year or so but everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next year or soon or this is going to be out soon or this is going to be fixed soon or the next iphone is going to be great or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those quarterly runnings were an anomaly all these promises are going to be due this year and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we you know a year from now when we’re presumably still having this podcast and still doing follow up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we will see where all of our concerns unfounded where were is you know how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how well are all these complaints got a age you know are we all wrong is apple about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to release over over the course of the next year amazing things that are going to blow our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco minds and we’re going to we’re going to feel good about at the back again and we’re going to feel good about apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prospects again and we’re going to feel good about the iphone design again all this stuff and their numbers going to go up and everyone’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the market’s going to be happy like is that really going to happen this year it might we don’t know yet we’ll find out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and i really hope things go better because frankly if they don’t i’m going to have to find other stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to talk about because i’m tired of being sad the time about all the stuff i love war

⏹️ ▶️ John rover in the chat room had a good turn of phrase which i am going to slightly improve twenty seventeen

⏹️ ▶️ John year of macos on the desktop

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco nice good huh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco i

⏹️ ▶️ John know marco wanted to put a capper on this but unfortunately the next item in the topic list is the one tiny

⏹️ ▶️ John sliver of new angle on this yes very old entire topic that i

⏹️ ▶️ John happened to that happened to occur to me and that i tweeted earlier today was in response to

⏹️ ▶️ John michael size he’s had a series of articles on this on this whole same thing like so many other mac bloggers and

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s an old time mac user and he’s feeling all the same things and one of his posts was

⏹️ ▶️ John on finding an alternative to what he calls macos ten but he’s not he’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John on board with your naming i guess and he links to a wesley moore’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a post about this but you know trying to i’m looking into different linux distributions

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff like people are looking for alternatives or for macos ten there they’re not like

⏹️ ▶️ John a very escape hatch but like at the very least trying to see what else is out there like before

⏹️ ▶️ John i was happy using the mac and i wasn’t even looking all terms but now i’m starting to consider like hey what else is out

⏹️ ▶️ John there house windows doing you know islamic any good let me try a few distribution and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John like that and then gruber also talked about anyway so uh this michael ipos

⏹️ ▶️ John uh what i tweeted i used the little quote tweet feature which actually i’m starting to like this disney room to

⏹️ ▶️ John actually write something well sort of leading their sweet welcome to like two years ago joe

⏹️ ▶️ John i know i mean my client has supported it at the west version short is great it’s totally up to date but

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m still in my habits are based on the old

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco tell me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about like not knowing when to move on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco i use it but like

⏹️ ▶️ John my normal twitter way would be to like i write a tweet and then paste the last twenty characters

⏹️ ▶️ John be the shortened your right but by by quoting you get some characters back anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John what i treated was the last time mac users were seriously passing around articles like this articles like the one about finding

⏹️ ▶️ John alternatives was during the transition from macos to macos ten and as

⏹️ ▶️ John as i treated to someone else who had replied ah some replied oh i can’t wait for people for

⏹️ ▶️ John the million replies they are going to say and now it’s the transition from macos to iow as ha ha ha ah which yes

⏹️ ▶️ John there were many of those replies but you know my commentary

⏹️ ▶️ John follow this was analysis intentionally omitted a because it’s sweater

⏹️ ▶️ John and you don’t have room to do that and b i like to just let this sweet lie

⏹️ ▶️ John because it is like a rocha test you know the last time i saw it was about this was the transition of macos to mago

⏹️ ▶️ John ten half the people are going to see that and say yeah and weren’t those dummies wrong because macos ten was awesome and

⏹️ ▶️ John all the people clinging to maces were a bunch of chumps and the other half of the people are going to say yeah that’s around

⏹️ ▶️ John the last time the mac almost died and we came through it by the skin of our teeth by you know struggling mightily

⏹️ ▶️ John to get this next base up into ship shape so that it’s satisfying to make and yet

⏹️ ▶️ John another group of people are going to say yes but a lot of people actually did leave the mac then it’s just that they were replaced by unix

⏹️ ▶️ John merion at all even out or actually was a net win and so many different views on how the the os the

⏹️ ▶️ John macaws ten transition went you know i’m fairly intimately familiar with the mas ten transition

⏹️ ▶️ John i so i know what i think about it but so many different people had different ideas of like what it was like you didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John experience this you didn’t experience the the incredible turmoil much were i can say much worse than

⏹️ ▶️ John the current turmoil raising much much much worse of a diet practically

⏹️ ▶️ John dying company certainly a dying os like this this is you know the in your parliament

⏹️ ▶️ John the windows ninety five you know no memory protection no preemptive multitasking

⏹️ ▶️ John like trying to get from that world into a modern os while trying to preserve something anything

⏹️ ▶️ John that was good about the mac it totally felt like apple as a company could be dying which is not a thing that

⏹️ ▶️ John we are currently worried about right now at all right and certainly that the mac could be dying

⏹️ ▶️ John along with the company because even if they survive what what is what comes out the other side of this thing will not be

⏹️ ▶️ John a mac it will be some stupid unix thing with a terminal that won’t be a mac at all and everything

⏹️ ▶️ John is terrible um in the end you know i think we successfully navigated that

⏹️ ▶️ John transition but all of the participants all the players were there there

⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t no much podcasting going on but i can tell you that there were many people who were

⏹️ ▶️ John from the old school mac world complaining just like complaining of his

⏹️ ▶️ John podcast through every channel available to them again twitter didn’t exist either

⏹️ ▶️ John but like usenet lots of arguing on usenet i remember arguing some some person named guy english which totally

⏹️ ▶️ John sounds like a made up name on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco usenet

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about

⏹️ ▶️ John the merits of classic macos versus next i don’t know who that guy was

⏹️ ▶️ John on you know on the nascent web and on our blogs and in person and in mac

⏹️ ▶️ John user groups and in the pages of magazines and letters to editors about how the mac was going um

⏹️ ▶️ John and the reason i reference that is not because i think we’re in the same situation again i think that was way more dire situation

⏹️ ▶️ John which gives me some comfort because it’s like i came through that and we’re nowhere near as bad as that is

⏹️ ▶️ John but just to say that no one was seriously circulating

⏹️ ▶️ John check out these alternatives to macos ten in the circles among diehard mac users obviously there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John always you know articles about like hey if you’re thinking of using this look of this alternative all blah but within

⏹️ ▶️ John our sort of blogging and tweeting circles of all these people who have been using macs for years and love

⏹️ ▶️ John it i hadn’t seen an article like this in ages let alone a series of them

⏹️ ▶️ John to find one i have to go back to the last time our little community was

⏹️ ▶️ John in turmoil and that was when people like oh if they’re going to do this to the mac i might as well use

⏹️ ▶️ John windows or i might as well try leduc or i’m going to leave the mac and go to you now the

⏹️ ▶️ John was no one said they’re going to leave the mac and go to pamela big because that wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway it gives me some historical perspective but it also highlights the fact that even though the current

⏹️ ▶️ John situation is not as bad as it was then it is at least of the same type

⏹️ ▶️ John that these kinds of articles are are in circulation

⏹️ ▶️ John and are of interest to everybody even if you don’t feel that way even if you just want to read

⏹️ ▶️ John it so you can sneer at the people who are you now claiming that the sky is falling or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact is the articles are being passed around and people are reading them people are thinking about and that hasn’t happened

⏹️ ▶️ John in a long time how long ago was the most interest in two thousand and one ish so we had a good fifteen

⏹️ ▶️ John years of peace and now now we’re going to have a little bit of if not war then maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John at least famine and pestilence

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco by his control panel it kind of blows your mind that this is even possible and any web programmers will know like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wow this is they put a lot of work into this and all of that was in service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of you the person making the website so that you don’t have to do any of that stuff it’s so good that it’s

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey since clearly the mac is doomed and the future is not even ios its voice tell us about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your google home i

⏹️ ▶️ John google home

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John so

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey i got a google

⏹️ ▶️ John home as a gift my wife’s slash gift for

⏹️ ▶️ John the family it’s complicated by the fact that our photos

⏹️ ▶️ John are you know i signed up for google photos using my one terabyte of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come back up for a second i heard from your wife that you got this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco google home as i’m getting to that as a gift to her and then paired it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your phone

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m about to do and it’s not paired to the phone i’m about to explain this so did it say homer on it

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s obviously for you know for the whole family because it just sits in a room it’s not like one of us has it

⏹️ ▶️ John on their desk or something right but one of the things that it can do for you is you can ask

⏹️ ▶️ John it to like display your photos on your tv so show me pictures of whoever on my chromecast then it will

⏹️ ▶️ John do that i don’t have comcast but i plan to get on they’re like thirty bucks or whatever it’s not a big deal and i do have each and my

⏹️ ▶️ John ports available on the side of my tv so i’m going to do that um but all of our google photos

⏹️ ▶️ John are associated with my google account not hers even though she has the

⏹️ ▶️ John the photo library on her five km under her account so she owns that

⏹️ ▶️ John but i mean and this is actually a feature i like the fact that we can do is i had one terrified google storage that i used

⏹️ ▶️ John for other things and so when it came time to look into google photos i said i can run

⏹️ ▶️ John the google photos thing on your account on your five k imac but use it to upload all

⏹️ ▶️ John your photos from the family photo library up to my google account storage because i’m the

⏹️ ▶️ John one with one terabyte of storage and so i have all the google photos and you can

⏹️ ▶️ John only associate the google home with one google account it is the first thing i searched

⏹️ ▶️ John by googling because i saw how you’d set up like a head now how do i add another campus you know in

⏹️ ▶️ John all the google web properties you can be signed into mobile accounts and switch among them and have you know like i thought surely that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing but i immediately found out that google home currently is limited to being connected to one google account so it is

⏹️ ▶️ John connected to my google account and the reason it’s connected to my google count is because i’m the one with

⏹️ ▶️ John all the photos and that’s one of one of the few things the thing can do for me so that’s that’s limitation

⏹️ ▶️ John number one about this limitation number two is i mean it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a big number to well lincoln the charlotte this article dan moren wrote about these devices cause he’s been

⏹️ ▶️ John an aid

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco alex for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the summary of this like on like the book jacket like john syracuse called google home data dot a big number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah well

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know the number two thing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is

⏹️ ▶️ John basically like amazon echo has a big lead and it does weigh more stuff right it just does especially in terms of home

⏹️ ▶️ John automation and other things like it’s been out longer it has more integrations um

⏹️ ▶️ John and so if you’re looking for something you can take out of the box and hook up a bunch of fifty different things too and make

⏹️ ▶️ John your own actions feel like this is not that thing someone asked me on twitter if you had to

⏹️ ▶️ John do it over again would you still buy the google home and like i do you even know i have a google home and what do you talk about doing it over again

⏹️ ▶️ John i just got the google home like i don’t know but the reason i got it i think we talked about this

⏹️ ▶️ John before when i said i was interested at the reason i got it is because i believe in the promise i believe in the promise

⏹️ ▶️ John of google home is the product the actuality of google home product is said it’s nicer looking than the echo and

⏹️ ▶️ John in some ways it’s better in terms of uh yeah i think maybe the speaker a is a little bit better and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s smaller and uh you know it’s it’s a little bit more polished i think but i’m

⏹️ ▶️ John am totally buying it because i believe that google will eventually be better

⏹️ ▶️ John at all the things that i care about which is understanding what i’m saying and find me finding me useful information

⏹️ ▶️ John and answers and i do use google counter we all use google counter i use google for my email we have all our photos

⏹️ ▶️ John on google in theory this has access to more of our stuff than the amazon echo would and i subscribe to google

⏹️ ▶️ John play because i subscribe to google play family thing with to get you to read or whatever so i can say things like

⏹️ ▶️ John you know i hate okay google but that’s what it is instead of alex i wish you could make a configure but i could say

⏹️ ▶️ John okay we’ll play some christmas music and guess what it plays christmas music because it has access to you know their their

⏹️ ▶️ John streaming music service whereas you ask amazon i go to do the same thing you can set something

⏹️ ▶️ John up to do it or you can try to get it to play audio on another bluetooth connected device and it’ll play the audios on that device

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever but anyway um so far mostly the children have been asking it to say things

⏹️ ▶️ John in foreign languages

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ John do unit conversions i did use it to set timers but it is

⏹️ ▶️ John really limited like the one of the very first things i asked you to do was remind me

⏹️ ▶️ John in two hours to check on the roast this was like on christmas day right and it said

⏹️ ▶️ John i can’t set up reminder if you’re sorry about that something like i’m like you can’t set up reminders like you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John need to do this doesn’t need to be a network of deaton just do it right it can do timers

⏹️ ▶️ John set a timer for two hours for the roast okay i’ve set a timer for two hours for the roast right but remind

⏹️ ▶️ John me in two hours and knows that i want a reminder but i guess it classifies them in the same way

⏹️ ▶️ John the apple classifies reminders versus timers and it has no way to create a reminder in the

⏹️ ▶️ John world ghoul yet right so again i google this and soon a million people saying yes it can’t set reminders

⏹️ ▶️ John yet maybe i will be able to in the future so i really hope that they

⏹️ ▶️ John get cranking on the integrations and the functionality i am very impressed with its ability to understand

⏹️ ▶️ John my children’s poor diction as they yell over each other to try to get it to do things right

⏹️ ▶️ John i am impressed with its ability to understand me talking from other rooms and mumbling and

⏹️ ▶️ John how responsive it is to asking you to set timers it takes me longer to figure out when

⏹️ ▶️ John i can start talking to siri than it does to complete the action on the google home right because that

⏹️ ▶️ John is an internal frustration i to have the fanciest fastest iphone and half the time i’m like

⏹️ ▶️ John is it okay for me to talk do i have to wait for the boo boo and then like i start talking then it goes booboo and then it does not understand

⏹️ ▶️ John me and i can’t reset it and i have to start all over and i just want to go able to talk into there and you mentioned casey before

⏹️ ▶️ John syria and the mac that this is i think one of one of the things both the amazon echo and the

⏹️ ▶️ John google home do so much better than syria and the mac if syria and the mac really wants to be worth a damn

⏹️ ▶️ John it should be like those two devices where i can just say okay mac what’s the weather like

⏹️ ▶️ John tomorrow no preamble no pressing the key no make sure the mac is ready before i talk

⏹️ ▶️ John just freaking say it cause if this little tiny hundred dollar cylinder can do it this huge thousand multi

⏹️ ▶️ John thousand dollar computer should be able to do that too not on the fact there’s no hay sir it’s like oh you can hook up

⏹️ ▶️ John this ascribe to make it so recognizable when you say no the one can do a mac

⏹️ ▶️ John a mac has to be able to do to because as as marco well knows that is to kill a feature to

⏹️ ▶️ John be able to just rattle it off in the air with no set up and no preamble and no making sure

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody is ready and i just friggin does it and that’s awesome right i mean that i think the

⏹️ ▶️ John most important feature of all these cylinders is really good microphones they can understand you from far

⏹️ ▶️ John away with background noise and incredible responsiveness and iphones don’t have that and max

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have that in its damn shame so anyway google home it shows promise

⏹️ ▶️ John for the things that it can do it’s very responsive i intentionally bought it because

⏹️ ▶️ John i believe in the promise of google doing this type of stuff really well and the things that it does

⏹️ ▶️ John do it does do really well you can phrase your mind like little starts you can phrase your unit conversions

⏹️ ▶️ John or questions about the weather or follow up questions a in a fairly natural way and it pretty much nails it um

⏹️ ▶️ John it just needs more features so i am patiently waiting for them to appear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah i got to say i mean i have yet to see the google home but having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had now quite a bit of experience with the amazon echo these like home cylinders

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with voice stuff that connect to simple things like timers and weather and music services

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and home automation this is a real deal this category is really great it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really fun and there is this pretty significant like you know land grab

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going on right now mostly being won by amazon i am honestly kind of concerned that apple is not playing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this space yet and you know we’ve heard rumblings that they’re working on i really hope they get here soon because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is the time to in to this business so so over christmas we we got my in laws

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an echo it it was kind of funny like for the last you know five or six christmases

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ve we’ve gotten people various apple things um you know like apple tv’s here and there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and occasionally ipads for like big big gifts sometimes this year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nobody got anything by apple like this year was apple had nothing to do with our holiday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun this year they were just you know we were all like using iphones basically but like there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nothing there was no like new stuff from apple this year for us and grant i know the airpods are a big deal for a other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people but you know that that wasn’t anyway it wasn’t for a holiday season anyway all the fun

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was playing with the echo and these you know and and all like the home automation like i got a handful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like the the balcon remo outlets and everything that you can switch with them there’s like this stuff this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is where all the action is happening right now and like cool fun new technology and yet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is it isn’t like you know a massive business there’s not a lot of profit to be made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here i mean amazon’s already selling the echo for under two hundred bucks and the dots are like forty bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what’s the google home like a hundred and fifty or something i

⏹️ ▶️ John got on sale is one of the reasons i bought i got it for like a hundred and ten or hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Marco twenty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you this it it’s obviously going to be like a low margin business for you know probably forever and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s going to be difficult for apple because i can’t see apple coming in at you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco under two fifty probably you know i mean look the apple tv is you know in a similar boat where like all the competitors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are really cheap and apple tv is still very expensive for you know compared to them so anyway you know i worry about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apple’s business because like it’s so cool it’s so much fun these devices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are really really awesome and but in order to be good like like they require two things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apples not very good at service consistency and integrations with a whole bunch of other stuff and i don’t say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that to be as a joke like you know siri for all of its benefits and faults

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one thing it really isn’t even even people who love ceri i think they would usually agree one thing it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really isn’t as consistent and you know like the echo is so incredibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rock solid so anyway between google and an amazon i really haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco read a single review of the google home that makes me think anybody should buy it over the echo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i honestly like all the reviews seem to say like yeah it’s kind of the same thing but worse like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what am i missing here

⏹️ ▶️ John i mean it is i feel like it is better at all the same things that google is good at that you can type things in google

⏹️ ▶️ John search box and lots of different ways and it more or less figures out what you mean like in the same way that

⏹️ ▶️ John you know the difference between we know and gould does that thing where it puts like it’s like here a bunch of search results and hear

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of ads but by the way i’m pretty sure i know what you’re getting at and here’s a box at the top that shows

⏹️ ▶️ John like exactly what you are interested like the score of a game or like the answer to the trivia question you were

⏹️ ▶️ John asking or whatever before it even gets to the search results that type of stuff is more or less

⏹️ ▶️ John exposed in a spoken way as opposed to like like what was it dan martin and his were

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about doing the language translation the echo or alexa rather can do that as well but it

⏹️ ▶️ John displays the results on your on your phone in the eye api doesn’t speak them back to you

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s it’s like it’s barely all the things that google is good at if you’re interested in controlling stuff in

⏹️ ▶️ John your home a echo has way more integrations if you’re interested in buying things like forget it

⏹️ ▶️ John amaz that’s amazon’s bread but you when you want to buy things by talking amazon’s got you covered i don’t even know if you can do that

⏹️ ▶️ John at all in google

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tell you what by the way that sounds like a stupid thing until you do it i’m sure you love it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey once

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once you’re like once you’re you know once you’ve given in to the amazon way of life and you start ordering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like everything from amazon you can like you can do things like say name of thing reorder

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a fridge filter and it will go through your order history and it will query it for the phrase

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fridge filter and it will say do you want me to add this thing you know it’ll read the name and i’ll say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here so much it costs and here’s you know it has four star reviews or whatever else i’ll say do you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to buy it now and you can you know you can add it to your cart and just do it later you add to your shopping list or you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just have it say yes and place it place the order right then you can you can literally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get rid of your like iron of this thing or i need another one of these things you can eliminate those problems like without ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touching a computer like oh my french filter need to be replaced all right get a new fresh filter two days later it just shows up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s kind of amazing i also before we got this thought that was your ridiculous concept

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but once you do it like once and you kind of break the uh like to break the seal almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you break hearts like once you do it once you’re just like oh my god this is kind of awesome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why have i not been doing this

⏹️ ▶️ John i think we’re kind of in an apple google situation like in the early days of the iphone where it was like oh we

⏹️ ▶️ John have this nice sort of symbiosis where apple’s going to do this awesome hardware in the o s

⏹️ ▶️ John and google will do the cloud services like the maps and stuff and it’s a marriage made in heaven and then they split

⏹️ ▶️ John it seems like they’re already split because there are things that amazon does better but there are also things that google

⏹️ ▶️ John does better like basically any kind of search or intelligence or figuring out what you

⏹️ ▶️ John mean amazon can do all these things mostly because they have integrations with google or google like services

⏹️ ▶️ John but they don’t do themselves whereas buying things amazon is totally like it’s all integrated

⏹️ ▶️ John with your amazon account and knows your order history can do stuff like that it’s too you would you

⏹️ ▶️ John would want a home on a main thing they that can do all of these things right and the same way like i do know

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m as probably has this because they have every service under the sun google has all my photos in ama doesn’t doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have any of my photos i can’t ask the echo to show photos of my son on the television you know show show photos

⏹️ ▶️ John of my son in twenty fifteen on my comcast i can’t ask amazon to do that i mean i could maybe make a

⏹️ ▶️ John little skill or program or a little app in there little thing that make it do but like but google’s got my stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John and in the same way apple if they ever come up with one apple’s got a lot of my stuff too they’ve got also got my photos

⏹️ ▶️ John and they have my reminders because i use reminders on my phone and they have my eye messages but they don’t have my

⏹️ ▶️ John calendar because google has that and so you know in some respects

⏹️ ▶️ John the best would be a cylinder that you talk to that doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a horse in that race but integrates with all them sort of the cylinder equivalent of the omnivorous box but of course that doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John exist so instead where we have to choose silos the apo silo has nothing except for a sort of cranky

⏹️ ▶️ John syria that you can’t really talk to him by the way if they ever did make a cylinder can you imagine if they made a respond

⏹️ ▶️ John to hai telephone which i’m not going to say every device in your home would go off and then maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John the cylinder would bloop later like they should just give these

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco things different names or whatever well it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like it actually is not an easy problem to solve like like when the when the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amazon set of products first came out if you had them if you had more than one which they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so cheap and and you kind of always want one near by so i think a lot of people have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or will have more than one which again puts a problem on apple’s strategy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of probably a nicer more expensive one but anyway so when you have more than one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if both of them are within earshot when you say the trigger word you know originally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they would just kind of both operate independently and eventually in a software update which by the way i never even had to know about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they just update themselves and don’t even tell you they just update it’s amazing but in software update eventually they added

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a thing where like you can give them both the same trigger word and now like whichever one like heard you best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will handle the command and so and and you know there i believe they’re also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanting to work on things like a multi room audio someone what sonos does i think google home talked about something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that either they’re doing it or they’re going to do it like this is actually it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to ramp up quickly into a category where like the minimum bare entry is actually you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know non trivial that’s why i kind of like for apple’s sake if they’re going to play in this business

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all i hope they get here soon because there’s a lot to do and the competitors going to keep raising

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that bar and apple’s just going to be playing catch up if they really don’t don’t get here very very soon

⏹️ ▶️ John i feel like amazon even though they are the leader now is at quite a disadvantage because both google

⏹️ ▶️ John and apple have more of people stuff than amazon the only thing amazon has for most people is their

⏹️ ▶️ John purchase history and their purchases which is great for amazon because of their trying to find your way for you order things by talking

⏹️ ▶️ John and make money that’s fine but most people i don’t have all their family photos

⏹️ ▶️ John on there most people don’t have big video collections up on amazon most people don’t have their calendars on amazon

⏹️ ▶️ John or their reminders or their shopping list which even though it has these features like in other words to to win like you

⏹️ ▶️ John said this you have to have it’s an ecosystem play and apple has its ecosystem ego has its and you can

⏹️ ▶️ John argue about whose is better or whatever but amazon is the least full featured of all of them like

⏹️ ▶️ John and and google you know you have to actually integrate with them for you to win doesn’t doesn’t help the google i o google has a calendar

⏹️ ▶️ John if i can’t do anything with the calendar which you can you can ask about your day and stuff like that google has maps

⏹️ ▶️ John data and traffic data like you need the integrations but it’s easier to make those integrations if ap

⏹️ ▶️ John if google actually gives a damn about this product that google the weakness is historically the like we’ll try this but maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not that interested whatever right but it’s easier for google to do those integrations than it is for

⏹️ ▶️ John amazon to get people to use amazon for email amazon for calendars amazon for photo storage like even

⏹️ ▶️ John if they offer these services even if they make all these services and make world class version of the service to match both apple and google

⏹️ ▶️ John services then you have to get people to switch to them so there is a big disadvantage if

⏹️ ▶️ John for them to ever be in the ballpark if this becomes an ecosystem wide play

⏹️ ▶️ John there i guess there ace in the hole is like we don’t have to have the ecosystem we will just we will try to be as omnivorous

⏹️ ▶️ John as possible and give you away give people a way to make those integrations so hey buy the amazon echo if you

⏹️ ▶️ John have your reminders on apple we can integrate with them if you have your calendar on google we can integrate with them like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John their that’s their out but it’s certainly easier for apple and google to integrate with their own stuff um

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just you know they’re playing catch and like in that article the lincoln show notes reviewing

⏹️ ▶️ John them it’s like a google amazon integrates with all of these amazon i integrate all with all these home

⏹️ ▶️ John automation devices and google just integrates with these three but every single other one that is listed has announced support

⏹️ ▶️ John for google home right so it’s not like google is behind but it’s not like they’re like apple where they do

⏹️ ▶️ John a single sign on thing and then wait six months and say the same three pathetic companies are the only ones we got for single sign

⏹️ ▶️ John on oops like everybody has announced for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco google home that doesn’t mean anything a lot of people announce for homekit too i know but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a the question of whether google follows through on that um and google

⏹️ ▶️ John actually released a product they announced a product and they released it and it works which is way more than

⏹️ ▶️ John apple is done so apples clearly in last place and i have some faith that google home

⏹️ ▶️ John will have a more illustrious career in life than did all the other

⏹️ ▶️ John like google tv and we’re still and just think about the chromecast which seemed like this little thirty

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that had no future but tons of people have chromecast and loved them and even though it’s a very small

⏹️ ▶️ John simple thing now you get chromecast and google home now you have two pieces and they kind of fit

⏹️ ▶️ John together and that chromecast it was already valuable suddenly becomes more valuable executable home this is

⏹️ ▶️ John like ego system one o one so i do have some faith that google understands

⏹️ ▶️ John that they can be they can be an ra player here while apple snooze and while amazon

⏹️ ▶️ John gets margaret takes on all of margot’s money every time he speaks fourteen

⏹️ ▶️ John dollars at a time for fridge filter and the option by the way the dan martin option is these

⏹️ ▶️ John things are like a hundred and something bucks there’s no reason you can’t have both of them they don’t take up that much room dan mare’s got two of

⏹️ ▶️ John them i think he’s got it three of them in his house there’s no reason you can’t have all them and say all to buy me toilet paper and

⏹️ ▶️ John google translate this phrase from me or google what’s on my calendar today right it’s confusing to talk into multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John assistants but it’s not that bad like it’s not like you’re making a three thousand dollar investment in a computing platform

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re just buying a little cylinder and plugging it into the wall somewhere so i’m i’m actually considering

⏹️ ▶️ John that as well to get both of them because they don’t conflict it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine how much the ecosystem matters to which one succeeds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or fails or which ones succeed or fail i think also depends on what people want these cylinders

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do like what what is the role this is playing for you and you know like your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing about like you ask the google thing to show you pictures from your google photos dream

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of something on your tv i would never do that you are doing that and so you know obviously if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people are going to have different needs for this kind of thing but you know i think certain roles are going to come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out ahead like one of the like one of the things like there was a rumor that came out a little a couple of weeks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago about how maybe the next echo might be like a tablet kind of thing that’s really made to be a kitchen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco appliance really like because they’ve found that so many people put the echo in their kitchens and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco turns out people really like using it in the kitchen while cooking so you know it’d be nice to maybe have something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know a screen showing showing your timers cause timers a really popular thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as opposed to just like you know some kind of you know audio thing we have now or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a greenish like a recipe that you’re cooking or whatever else so you know amazon is finding their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uses in the kitchen google might find their uses in the living room each one could find their an audience

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or it might turn out that the things that google is optimizing for people actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just want to use their phones to do those things and no one’s really going to want their cylinders to do that and so google might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be making a bad bet on that and maybe people really want just a kitchen cylinder that plays music

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as i added the things most of the time you know maybe amazon will win there who knows like i don’t think it’s a safe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco assumption to say that the ego systems that each of these companies have now are a sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing to guarantee the success in this new area because we might find with this new area that people will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it differently than what we initially expect

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah my that saying it it’s a question of whether it’s easier to add integrations or whether it’s easier to add

⏹️ ▶️ John those ecosystems because like having ownership of people’s calendars and their messages and their purchases

⏹️ ▶️ John like those are things like purchases for example there’s no way apple and google can get that they

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t like oh we’re going to start a competing retail business so we’ll have a list of people’s pursuit nope you won’t and the in

⏹️ ▶️ John the same way amazon can’t say we’re going to start an email service and it’s going to be as big as email nope it won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re going to have a calendaring service and it’ll be as integrated in the iphone as apple’s calendar or wander

⏹️ ▶️ John is cool you won’t like so the lines are kind of drawn along there and those things

⏹️ ▶️ John are not esoteric like photos calendar a email

⏹️ ▶️ John address messages purchases those are fundamental those are fundamentally owed is

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like they have those squares on the monopoly board right and they’re not they’re not going away

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just a question of how how they’re going to be a divide between them and the

⏹️ ▶️ John the extras about the integrations like with the chromecast the example i gave footing photos on my

⏹️ ▶️ John tv this is the thing i do now but i do it the long annoying manually which is always annoying i use apple tv

⏹️ ▶️ John to do it i pull up the photo library half the thumbnails don’t show up it’s a terrible experience but like it’s the thing i want

⏹️ ▶️ John to do when relatives are over let’s look at pictures i have them usually sorted into albums or smart albums or something

⏹️ ▶️ John like that let me see the picture of my wife’s trip mediterranean cruise i have all

⏹️ ▶️ John this set up i already have the album appletv because i use my photos and apple and has

⏹️ ▶️ John that stuff and i just want to see them and i have to use that terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John remote and use a bunch of of applications to you know make sure her computer is on and awake

⏹️ ▶️ John a blah whereas if i could use a little crome cast that i don’t have to think about and a little cline i don’t have to think about

⏹️ ▶️ John and just sit down and say show mediterranean cruise photos and it knows from the the g

⏹️ ▶️ John p s tags what the heck i’m talking about because it’s cool and it’s really smart and i didn’t even have to make an album

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a better experience um but you can only do that if you know where to get the photos from and most people

⏹️ ▶️ John are not going to be sort of the south hackers of like well my photos are on a you know free be free mass thing

⏹️ ▶️ John in the basement on a road of linux server that pulls like no one’s going to do that like you can with the amazon echo you can do this

⏹️ ▶️ John integrations and in the beginning that that’s kind of a it’s impressive to create these

⏹️ ▶️ John rue oberg machines but i still feel like especially in the silent world that we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in ownership of data dictates what kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John things you can use it for and i said in the same way that you cannot tell google’s thing to order your new fridge

⏹️ ▶️ John things amazon owns that there’s nothing google can really do about that amazon’s not going to be keen on letting google

⏹️ ▶️ John integrate with its purchases in that way so if that’s one of the things that you want to do and

⏹️ ▶️ John i think it is a useful thing to do the only choice you have is the amazon and that’s why i think

⏹️ ▶️ John we may be trapped not trapped but like faded to be talking to

⏹️ ▶️ John multiple semi intelligent assistants referring to them by name in the same

⏹️ ▶️ John way that we go to multiple websites to do things i go to amazon when i’m shopping but i go to

⏹️ ▶️ John you know gmail when i want to do my mail i say daughter home fridge

⏹️ ▶️ John filters and i say google do i have any appointments tomorrow afternoon because

⏹️ ▶️ John google has my calendar and alexa has my purchases and again if these little cylinders

⏹️ ▶️ John like they’re cheap now they’re only going to get cheaper if they’re mostly network based stuff combined with really good microphones

⏹️ ▶️ John and a tiny little low paris pew that’s always listening and stuff i think that is

⏹️ ▶️ John aside from any sort of global cooperation between these giant companies which

⏹️ ▶️ John is not going to happen a talking to different things in our house seems to me the

⏹️ ▶️ John most likely outcome of all this so i think i think we’re all doomed to have multiple increasingly

⏹️ ▶️ John non cylindrical cylinders like eventually they’ll just be a buch of tiny little things that are dotted all over our house and having multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John ones them won’t be a big deal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks what’s where three sponsors this week casper betterment and square space and we will see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you next week

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now this show is over they didn’t even mean to begin because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental or it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john didn’t do any research marco and case he wouldn’t let him because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental though it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but you can find the show no at b dot fm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re into twitter you can follow them c

⏹️ ▶️ John a s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco e y l i

⏹️ ▶️ Casey assess to that’s k c s m a r c a r m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ant marco men s i r e a c u

⏹️ ▶️ Casey s a siracusa is accidental

Post-show: Neutral

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we all saw each other um this earlier this week

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually and marco this was your first probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey multi hundred mile trip in the tassel is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right that is right it’s the longest trip i’ve taken yet and the first trip that required a supercharger in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco middle so how to go when i before i bought the tesla

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the prediction i had was that this was going to be a car that’s really nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in everyday use to never have to go to a gas station and it’s just going to be a bit of a pain in the butt when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i go on long car trips we’re going to have these like you know forced half hour supercharger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco breaks every like three to four hours and it’s going to be a pain and everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but i figure like that’ll be like i will tolerate that inconvenience for the awesomeness of the car and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all other circumstances so this is the first tier i actually had to realize what it was like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to rely on the supercharger network for your range because every other i’ve gone to superchargers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like twice in the past but it was kind of optional like one time i was because it was just pouring rain and i was like oh i just need a break anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i’m passing one so let me just take a break here go to a coffee shop or whatever any other time it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more again like you know similar like not really necessary to stop for a few minutes anyway this was the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first summer i had to really stop for like thirty minutes i you know we pull up we find them it was it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the delaware rest stop on ninety five that you know everybody goes to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there was like twelve spots and half of them were open so that was fine you know pull up plug

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in and we went in we all went to the bathroom and we all got you know a quick little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lunch from the crappy food places they have in this wonderful delaware rest stop the is the worst but i it’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just don’t go to the baja fresh because you think oh a baha fresh that should be good cause real baja

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fresh stores are good but this is a ba fresh express and what that means is that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a terrible terrible pile of garbage that has the baja fresh sign above it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that is not a real baja fresh you never ever get that so you know we you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had lunch and everything and before i knew it like we were just like doing you know a basic restaurant before i knew what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my car was at like ninety eight percent and i was like trying to rush out of there so i didn’t hit a hundred to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco start getting charged forty cents a minute for sitting there taking up a spot unnecessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how what were you at when you pulled in just ballpark

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh i forget it somewhere around like thirty or something i don’t know something like that okay it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was amazing like you know charged up and like so like we were stopping anyway and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know like if we were like if we were like one of those hardcore long distance drivers that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the total time it takes you to get where you’re going is is very important to you and you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like to stop at all then this is not the car for you but you know if you if you stop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway just like for basic comfort and to take a break it’s quite something else on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way home i had an even cooler experience i was really i was a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sick and i was really tired and i could really really just use a break from driving like i was very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was unreasonably tired just because of the cause i i was sick and you know anyway tiff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and adam went into starbucks to get some coffee and to give adam a sandwich

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i sat in the car left the heat on and left the heated seat on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just took a nap i lean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lean the seat back i took like a twenty minute nap so here i was i’m like this is kind of amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so my car is filling up with the fuel it needs for free while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i sit in a heated nicely heated car with a nicely heated seat in the winter and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco take a nap actually i think this is like the best car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like for long road trip comfort i’ve ever seen like i again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i thought this was going to be some kind of like big hassle on long trips but it’s only a hassle if you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get there in the smallest amount of time possible but if you are more leisurely like we always have been and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like to like stop for lunch like or you know stop and take a break every so often if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s your style of driving this is the best like it is it is so much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the best because it allows you to not only fill up for free

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it forces you to take these breaks at certain intervals but the process of filling up for free

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is way nicer than stopping at a gas station oh my god so so actually i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really quite enjoyed it and it was wonderful and i look forward to future long trips where i have to use them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s awesome that’s somewhat surprising but super

⏹️ ▶️ John cool sounds like tips new car is going to have even fewer miles on it than her old one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco truth they’ll be our beach house car

⏹️ ▶️ John you still that’s the next that’s the next bit of electric car anxiety that you have to get over just by doing it because you’re like

⏹️ ▶️ John oh i’ll be sitting there and it’ll be discharging and i shouldn’t let it sit there for a week i bet that’s not a problem either you gotta try it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well i remember i did i did the experiment like i left my car unplugged here when we went there to kind of try that and it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ends up i think it loses like one or two per cent a day so it isn’t that big of a deal but uh but no the bigger problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is i don’t want to fill my trunk with sand

⏹️ ▶️ John oh jeez look are you going to use your car or is

⏹️ ▶️ John it just a piece of it’s just a piece of art that you look at there are two things that are not allowed on my trunk sand and glitter

⏹️ ▶️ John you can vacuum the sand up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i promise you yeah yeah you know what i was told that i bet the glitter in my trunk when we had a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John litter heavy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah exactly yeah so but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John saying something you can

⏹️ ▶️ John no do you have it you have a trunk liner i didn’t i don’t think i’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever seen your truck what does that mean it’s covered in carpet i don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s a no

⏹️ ▶️ John right so you can usually buy you can usually buy like a little rubber a thing that goes

⏹️ ▶️ John in there so you can you know if it’s mostly for like if like some groceries bag together and spell

⏹️ ▶️ John and get sticky stuff over there you basically you don’t ruin the carpet in your car but also if it gets filled with sand you

⏹️ ▶️ John can take that whole rubber thing out turn it up sit down and dump all the sand back and put it in but even if you do it right on

⏹️ ▶️ John the carpet i promise you you can vacuum sand out of carpeting in the car it will be fine and

⏹️ ▶️ John finally sand in your car as a badge of honor if you are a beach person which i know that you are not but we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John converting me right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i am a i am a beach town person i like the i like the beach town i like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beach environment i like the beach mindset even but i still do not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sand that sand is sand is a problem and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John i tell you there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i don’t see how glitter can be such the the scourge of humanity that it is and and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it can like glitter ruined my my three twenty eight like when i had that car like i got there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as there was that christmas we we brought my car up state and it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a year where the wrapping paper that was in use that year contained glitter and the ribbon all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco contained litter and so my entire car filled with glitter it i never like i could not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get it all out of that car i eventually had to turn the car in for the end of the lease it was still there i turned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a glittery trunk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey at least

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was not actually fine for that but they they should have find me for that even i would have find me for that

⏹️ ▶️ John you need to nip that in the but like i am familiar with this phenomenon wrapping paper with glitter on the outside of it

⏹️ ▶️ John just say no that cannot enter your house if someone else brings you a present with that on it you have to like isolate

⏹️ ▶️ John it like it’s radioactive but by all means when you’re wrapping your own presence do not choose that

⏹️ ▶️ John paper with glitter on it that is a terrible mistake that should never be allowed to have been setting

⏹️ ▶️ John aside cars forget about cars but just just in your own home they cannot that cannot be allowed to exclude

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the its will that that caused a rule to be enacted that no more glitter in my car ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and no glitter in any part of the house i care about which is basically the office and my car

⏹️ ▶️ John but sam is not like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John promise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you but sand is just dull glitter like how is that not it is not it is not it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John very small rocks how does that not work the same way and what else floats in water

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably a reference that i’m not getting it is i can tell when you use your reference voice yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you do have a

⏹️ ▶️ John reference voice everybody else will will get that i could have tried to do the accent

⏹️ ▶️ John oh my goodness