Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

192: Hello Again Again

Expectations and speculation about next week’s Apple event.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Follow-up: Camera dust
  2. Sponsor: Automatic
  3. Apple event next week 🖼️
  4. Sponsor: Hover (code FINALLY)
  5. Apple event next week, cont’d.
  6. Sponsor: Away (code ATP)
  7. Apple event wildcards
  8. Ending theme
  9. Post-show Marco Waffling: Laptops

Follow-up: Camera dust

⏹️ ▶️ Casey When did I la la la? I don’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ John that at all. You did. You la la la’d. You had like messed up what you were saying and had started

⏹️ ▶️ John over and then it was adorable. Marko

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey will find it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I’m not mad about it. I just don’t recall having done it. I don’t remember it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, let’s lock it up. La la la. For the second consecutive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey week, I think I’m the only one with follow-up, which is kind of freaking me out a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, John and I are just perfect now. We just no one can challenge

⏹️ ▶️ John us in anything. No, I was gonna put the same thing in but you beat me to it So I just let you do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So thank thanks. Thanks. Anyway, sorry to tread on your follow-up, sir.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway so there is a Podcast by a German fellow whose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey name I don’t have in front of me because I make the worst show notes in the world Chris Marquardt was very nice to talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about us on his photography podcast tips from the top floor. It was episode 748 It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was about halfway through the episode give or take some so we’ll put an overcast link in the show notes as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well

⏹️ ▶️ John Wait, are we just gonna we’re just gonna glide right by episode 748 of a podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean, it’s impressive 748 that is the highest podcast episode number

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve ever seen in my life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John they go way higher than that So what I mean, obviously I don’t listen to the right kind of shows what kind of shows I guess daily

⏹️ ▶️ John shows go over the hundreds so i don’t want any daily podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure i mean yet obviously anything delhi last for more than a few years but also like you’d be surprised how many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco podcasts out there publish more than one episode a day uh… usually user usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these are things that are just dumped off of radio broadcasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so you’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a lot of you know radio broadcast of today our one our two our three our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four as for different episodes in the podcast only well i

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t listen to us kind of pockets but i read that this is not that kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of pockets i don’t know that anybody listens to those kind of podcast but lots of people publish them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s weird. So anyway, so on episode 748 of Chris Marquardt’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey podcast, Photography Tips from the Top Floor, he discussed what we were discussing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about how to keep dust out of your digital camera while you’re changing lenses.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I thought that was an interesting discussion and the kind of short, short version is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you really don’t need to worry about it because it’s unlikely that you’re going to run into any sort of problem that will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cause a visual distortion on your images. And I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oversimplifying for sure, you should definitely check out the episode, but there were three links that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he pointed his listeners to, including me, because I listened to it. And I think all three were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lens, yes, all three were blog posts. Now, if you recall, I think all three of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us, certainly I, have been patrons of Lens Rentals. They are not a sponsor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but we’ve all used them. And these three posts on their blog from as far back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as 2008, actually, involve what can happen to a lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and whether or not that really affects the image that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey comes out of the camera. And so they talk about in the first one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey getting lens dust on the screen and do some really interesting tests—or dust in lens—and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do some really interesting tests to show that unless you get fairly extreme,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and again, I’m getting a little hand-wavy and oversimplifying, but unless you get fairly extreme, you’re probably not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to notice this distortion. And in fact, they put little Post-it note

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slivers onto the lens to show that it almost made no difference except very extreme scenarios.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that was just mind-boggling to me, that a piece of Post-it note that looked like it was 2 to 3 millimeters

⏹️ ▶️ Casey square really in basic setups didn’t seem to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey matter. That blew my mind. And when you use a really narrow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aperture, it did seem to matter, but wide open, especially, it made almost no difference. Is that a fair summary of that first

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link? All right, I’ll take that as a yes. Moving on. And then the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey second link they had was about scratches and whether or not scratches on a lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make a difference. And they posted within their blog post two pictures. One

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is of a waste management dumpster. It is not on fire.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey One is of a piece of paper. And these images, I mean, they are not remarkable,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but there was no obvious damage, if you will, to these images.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey These images looked like they were taken with a regular lens. And then you scroll down and you see the lens they were taken with,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it has like, I don’t know, maybe 10 cracks straight through the lens

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in kind of like a wheel, like spokes on a wheel kind of shape. It was crazy.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it is crazy to me that this lens that is effectively shattered somehow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ends up producing images that are okay. So those were the two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I think were most directly applicable to the sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of things that maybe any one of us would run into. But the third one was the most ridiculous,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is, it’s entitled, I I don’t know why it swallowed a fly, weather

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sealed lens with a fly inside. Spoiler alert, this lens had a fly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey within it. It is ridiculous that this fly got all the way deep, deep, deep within

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this lens. And because this is their business, they had to take it apart and repair it. And they kind of go through how they did that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it was incredible to me that such a thing was even possible because I assumed, obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ignorantly so, I assumed that these things were like hermetically sealed and all that. But their point was, hey,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If this lens is a zoom lens where things are moving, something has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to take up the space that’s just been vacated, and that thing is air. So air

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is getting in and out of these lenses, whether you like it or not. And occasionally, you can find a pretty big gap where a small fly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can fly through. So I just thought these were all really, really interesting posts. The podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tips on the top floor, the episode is definitely really good and worth listening to. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey definitely check all this stuff out if you’re at all interested in any of this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this is also, by the way, one of the reasons why the higher end zoom lenses don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have any externally moving elements most of the time. It still doesn’t make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it perfect. Stuff can still get in, especially dust being just sucked in through seals and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But this lens is one of those things where as you zoom in, the whole end of it gets a lot longer as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this whole internal barrel sticks out. Whereas the high-end zoom lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will typically retain their exterior shape and dimensions at all the different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco zoom lengths. Like all the zooming is basically happening inside the lens. And there’s lots of benefits to that, but one of them is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s less likely to suck in an entire fly. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s just absolutely ridiculous to me that any of this happened.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so the one thing you left out was the main topic of conversation is the idea of a door that goes

⏹️ ▶️ John down in front of the sensor for when you’re changing lenses. And so the most relevant piece of information

⏹️ ▶️ John about that was the idea that even when the lens is on your camera, the dust can

⏹️ ▶️ John get inside it. And you know, the telescoping thing with the ones that move externally, with the, with

⏹️ ▶️ John both the internal and the external ones, it probably depends on the design of the camera. Because with a purely internal one,

⏹️ ▶️ John there doesn’t need to be any net air movement inside and outside the lens because the same amount of air is in there as long as there’s some way for,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the air that’s already inside the completely unchanging shape of cylindrical barrel of the thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John that’ll be fine. And for the ones that do move, I don’t know enough about zoom lenses to know if there is a glass

⏹️ ▶️ John element between the part that moves and the rest of the camera. So yes, if you have

⏹️ ▶️ John a thing where the lens actually gets longer and shorter, then there’s some air exchange taking place there. But

⏹️ ▶️ John is that air exchange causing air to enter into the sensor chamber and out of it, or is it just causing

⏹️ ▶️ John air to enter into the front part of the zoom lens in and out? But either way, the whole point is when

⏹️ ▶️ John the lens is on, things can get in. I’m still in favor of the door though and I’ll tell you why.

⏹️ ▶️ John One of those other points was that like the dust just floats in the air doesn’t go down into your camera but

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s I mean it’s true that dust is not gonna make a diving a bombing run for your camera as soon as it

⏹️ ▶️ John sees that the lens is off because dust is not sentient but the net movement of dust is still down.

⏹️ ▶️ John The net movement of dust wasn’t down to be that dust all over our ceilings and not all over our furniture.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the other thing is the the type of things that can get onto your sensor, not the lens,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the lens stuff is a different thing, but things that can get onto your sensor, small things can make a big difference, and in particular things

⏹️ ▶️ John that were on my sensor, the theory that people had is that it was big enough for me to see and it was, it stuck to the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing and it must have been pollen or something. The bigger, the chunkier the piece of

⏹️ ▶️ John dust, the harder it is for it to get through any kind of ceiling in a lens,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Especially for a prime lens where nothing is moving and it’s all closed up, but the main time you are vulnerable

⏹️ ▶️ John to dust is when, not when there’s a tiny crack opening in, you know, some kind of sealing thing, but when there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John huge gaping opening. And if pollen is blowing around, that’s the time when the piece of pollen is gonna come in and

⏹️ ▶️ John get stuck to your sensor. So, would a sensor, as I said on the show, I didn’t even have faith that a sensor would actually

⏹️ ▶️ John even seal off, a door that would actually even seal off the sensor, even if there was a door. Because the door is not gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John have a perfect seal either. But I still say it’s better than completely open, gigantic opening

⏹️ ▶️ John to the air, and I still say it is better to not have your sensor facing upward

⏹️ ▶️ John for any appreciable amount of time because although dust does kind of float in the air, the heavier

⏹️ ▶️ John and the bigger the dust, the more likely it is to go down, and if you leave it there long enough dust will settle on your sensor. And dust on the sensor,

⏹️ ▶️ John unlike dust in lenses, actually is surprisingly visible at small sizes because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a whole different ballgame than dust way out there somewhere in the in the path that light takes as it goes

⏹️ ▶️ John through these giant pieces of glass. This is on the sensor like directly on the little whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that protects the you know it’s very close to the actual things that sense the light so a small piece of

⏹️ ▶️ John dust or pollen can make a big difference so I’m still pro door but in the meantime I’m still being super

⏹️ ▶️ John careful.

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Apple event next week

Chapter Apple event next week image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s Thanks a lot to Automatic for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So just earlier today as we record, there has been an announcement that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are going to talk about the Mac, or really Apple is going to talk about the Mac on October 27th. Mediated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey invites have gone out and as usual, Apple’s keeping things close to the chest,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey under the vest, whatever the phrasing is. Under the vest? Do people actually say that? No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just close the chest just sounded wrong. He

⏹️ ▶️ John just, he’s got his, his murds wixed again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It happens from time to time. We are professionals kids. Don’t try this at home. So the invite has a colorful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple logo or most of one anyway, and it says hello again beneath it. And of course,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, all the old Apple nerds like John Syracuse are remembering some old Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t even know which one it was that said hello again on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I knew

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to love this. I knew you were going to love this. I swear to God I did that on purpose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just to see you get where we hear you get riled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John hard

⏹️ ▶️ John to know with you guys are reminiscing about leopard.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So which old which important Mac was it John? Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the one bullet point I put in the put in this invitation. Normally, I don’t put

⏹️ ▶️ John much stock in spending time looking at these invitation images. You know, they’re fun. They’re amusing. It’s great to see them or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John But like whatever, like the announcement will be I think time has shown for the most part, The announcement

⏹️ ▶️ John images connect to what is announced in a less interesting way than people

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine. Like, they’re always looking for something really interesting. There’s a connection very often.

⏹️ ▶️ John Usually that connection is pretty obvious and the obvious interpretation is correct and it’s not a big deal. The reason I think this one

⏹️ ▶️ John is interesting and probably interesting in a bad way is not because of the picture, which appears

⏹️ ▶️ John to be an Apple logo with, what do you guys think that is, smoke? I think? Just color

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blobs? It looks like a blurred version of the Aurora Borealis behind some dark

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trees at night.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco what I’m interpreting,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like, it’s an ink blob. And maybe that will connect to what is announced in a

⏹️ ▶️ John way that is obvious after the fact or whatever. But it also has text underneath and the text says, hello again,

⏹️ ▶️ John and all lowercase. And I don’t know, is that San Francisco? I’m not good at identifying fonts. Probably

⏹️ ▶️ John beats me. And that is significant because the original Macintosh was famously,

⏹️ ▶️ John to people who were alive and into tech then, introduced with a hello

⏹️ ▶️ John in script written in Mac paint on the screen, kind of, like, you know, a very

⏹️ ▶️ John humanistic way for the computer to announce itself rather than, you know, monospace font

⏹️ ▶️ John or text or whatever, it was hello written in script in a big thick line, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And that didn’t show up again as a marketing motif other than

⏹️ ▶️ John referencing back to the original marketing motif until the iMac when Steve Jobs had returned and it’s the first big

⏹️ ▶️ John important product that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey God was it the first time? Yes, it was the first time and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey one said

⏹️ ▶️ John hello and then in parentheses again. And the reason that said hello again is because it was

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of announcing this new computer, this weird teal thing that you’ve never seen before. It looks like no

⏹️ ▶️ John other Mac that’s been announced, like along with the iPod, the products that turned

⏹️ ▶️ John around Apple from this company that was going out of business to a company that paid attention to, the iMac really I think was the thing that made

⏹️ ▶️ John people say, oh maybe Apple’s not going out of business after all. Which is not, you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John damning with faint praise, oh I guess they’re not going out of business, but people paid attention and it was interesting. Was the original iMac the

⏹️ ▶️ John best computer in the world? No, but it was a very important computer. It was important

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple because it meant that they were a vibrant company that could do interesting things that people wanted to

⏹️ ▶️ John look at and it was important to the entire industry that it influenced how Technology and

⏹️ ▶️ John computing hardware was made from that point forward I talked about all the teal irons and vacuums

⏹️ ▶️ John and all sorts of other things how it just influenced industrial design and Brought a new focus on what computers look

⏹️ ▶️ John like or before they were just basically beige boxes and Apple’s had a classier beige boxes but

⏹️ ▶️ John It didn’t make a difference and all of a sudden this one was in your face. You could not ignore it It was look totally different everything else and so hello

⏹️ ▶️ John again felt appropriate appropriate time gap. What was the iMac like 1998? from 1984 to 1998

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s when they felt like it was Important and significant

⏹️ ▶️ John enough to reference back to the original max. Hello, and I give them that I say, all

⏹️ ▶️ John right Hello again, it fit with that. It was it was an important dramatic moment in the history of Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John important time to reference back to the original Mac. Now they’re saying it, no parentheses this time,

⏹️ ▶️ John and the obvious interpretation is, oh this is going to be announcement about Macs, which surprise us what everyone assumes it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be. This is the time when they’re going to announce some kind of Macs and we’ll talk about what which Macs those might be in a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s a nice way of saying we know it’s been a long time since we introduced Macs so

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s some Macs, right? But I feel like by using Hello again,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re implying a significance that I don’t think they can deliver on unless they are doing ARM Macs. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey bold.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re implying a significance, a significant event as important as the original Macintosh or

⏹️ ▶️ John the first iMac. And the only thing they can announce today, the only thing that is in any of

⏹️ ▶️ John the rumors or whatever that they can announce tomorrow or whenever next week that

⏹️ ▶️ John will live up to hello again is if they are substantially altering the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John line in a way that is obvious and as obvious and as dramatic as the iMac was

⏹️ ▶️ John or as the original Mac was. And maybe even RMAX doesn’t qualify for that. Only among nerds it would qualify because people don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John care what the hell chip is in their computers, right? But at least to nerds that would be significant. It would be a big transition.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I don’t think they’re going to announce RMAX. I think they’re just going to announce a bunch of new Macs that are pretty cool. I don’t know if it deserves

⏹️ ▶️ John a hello again. I feel like I’ve been overhyped.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Raining on everyone’s parade and we’re over a week away. We this this has only been an announcement

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for like six hours

⏹️ ▶️ John I just the word you can’t you can’t like you can’t overuse it like the one more thing They’ve used sparingly for the most part

⏹️ ▶️ John in it and I almost give them passing that because it’s like one more thing was used So many times hello has only been used

⏹️ ▶️ John You know the original Mac Constant references the original Mac and then the iMac with again in parentheses and now

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re using it now because they haven’t released max in Like a year. It’s not if they’re trying to do it to like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know So to engender good feelings, it’s not working on me. And I don’t think there’s anything

⏹️ ▶️ John they can deliver that will live up to the significance of that to old fogies like me. Everyone else doesn’t care. Like no one knows what the hell, no one

⏹️ ▶️ John knows what hello again. You didn’t even know it was the original iMac. Like it’s not a stumble for the company, but for

⏹️ ▶️ John me as an old school Mac user, I feel like this is an inappropriate use of that slogan.

⏹️ ▶️ John And or they could announce new amazing Macs that are totally on par with the iMac and the original Mac, but I’m not holding

⏹️ ▶️ John my breath.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I think, I don’t doubt that it is possible to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do something in the Mac lineup that would justify this level of old school reference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hype, but I really don’t think it’s very likely that that’s what they’ve done this time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just because of the situation the Mac has been in for all this time, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco relative importance of the Mac to Apple that, at least the way it seems, is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly low these days. So I really doubt that they have done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you would expect from this kind of reference. That being said, I mean, you know, the again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now is not in parentheses. So maybe that means that they deleted more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ports. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well, I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, that’s the other thing. Like you can do hello, and then you can do hello again. But if you do again, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re kind of out of ideas. So I mean, that could be the way they’re saying it’s not as significant as you think. We’re referencing hello, but

⏹️ ▶️ John obviously, we already did hello again. And now we’re doing it again. again. If they had did hello again again. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, they did the it was the funnest iPod. Why not? Hello again again. I wonder what killed that

⏹️ ▶️ John one in the meeting to come up with this slogan. Bigger is bigger. Probably a 10 minute meeting because again, who

⏹️ ▶️ John cares about these images? Who even knows they exist except for like tech journalists and people who read tech sites. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the thing. I mean, like, like they disappear. Like the moment the event starts, these images disappear from the world.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no one cares about them. Once the thing is over, no one goes back and says, Oh, I guess you know, it turned out they

⏹️ ▶️ John were announcing, you know, back to the Mac, they did announce a bunch of Mac stuff. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I personally feel like I have been overhyped in the grand scheme of things. Hello again doesn’t matter at all, but I won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John forget.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So here’s a question. So the MacBook Pro, based on the rumors and everything that have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been fairly consistent for quite a long time now. So I think there’s, you know, it’s probably one of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like where the smoke is fire situations where we can be pretty sure at least some of what’s being announced next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week by this point and and it sure seems like the MacBook Pro is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting a noteworthy update but not like a revolutionary update

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know like it might be getting some cool software mapable function keys like okay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s that’s fine but you know it’s probably not going to be amazingly revolutionary probably going to be you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a nice to have it’s probably going to get a little bit smaller a little bit lighter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s also you know not revolutionary just nice to have. It’s probably going to be a little faster, a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slightly more updated things, Touch ID maybe for unlocking. Again, nice to have. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s going to add up to a really nice update in all likelihood. But to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be this revolutionary, what you’re expecting from this use of this reference, I don’t think it’s standing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a chance. One thing I am a little curious about is that 13-inch Retina MacBook Air. I’m telling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you, there’s something there. we’ve been hearing about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Pro forever now. Like we’ve been hearing about this updated MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in rumor sites for what, six months at least? It’s been a long time. And then we’ve heard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost nothing about whatever this 13-inch MacBook or MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is being released, allegedly. Maybe that is gonna be more interesting because you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they sure sell a lot of MacBook Airs. And so even though like the geeks like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us have been focused on all the Retina machines for the last four years since they introduced the first one,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they still continue to sell a ton of MacBook Airs because they’re very affordable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re very practical, they’re a really good balance of lots of things. I’ve gone over this before. I wonder if maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the really significant machine of this event is actually that 13-inch MacBook Air, or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is that is going to fill that slot now. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. So let’s suppose for a second that there is a 13-inch MacBook of some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flavor that is retina. Why would that be an error and not just a 13-inch MacBook?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, that’s the problem with all these rumors, because they keep saying the 13-inch MacBook error. As we all know from

⏹️ ▶️ John a long time watching rumors things, the one thing that rumor sites pretty much never know, the two

⏹️ ▶️ John things they pretty much never know, are the name and the price, because those are easily changeable,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’re not important for most people to know who would leak. A small number of people can know them.

⏹️ ▶️ John and price leak last and sometimes price not at all and they have to but they have to keep referring to this

⏹️ ▶️ John you know whatever they have rumors and part leaks and things people have seen things or whatever even people who are working on

⏹️ ▶️ John the machine don’t know what it’s gonna be named because that’s not their department all they know is that there’s a 13-inch screen and

⏹️ ▶️ John something having to do with a laptop and we’ve discussed in the past like maybe that 13-inch screen was for is that a 13-inch MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro is it a 13-inch MacBook is it an air replacement the whole point is you could have someone

⏹️ ▶️ John with this machine sitting in front of them right now and get them on the phone and say, so is that a MacBook Air? I’m like, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can just describe to you the machine. I don’t know how it’s going to be sold. Is it going to have the Air name on it or not? Especially if it’s Retina.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, what makes it, at this point, Air is defined by not having a Retina screen. Like, that’s what distinguishes

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing, by having old ports and not having a Retina screen. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. If they have a laptop that fits into that slot

⏹️ ▶️ John in their lineup somehow, I think it’s fine. But I don’t know if we can, by continually referring it to

⏹️ ▶️ John as a 13-inch MacBook Air, I think it sets weird expectations about it. Like, you know, does that mean it has

⏹️ ▶️ John to be really cheap? Does that mean it has to have more ports than we would expect? Does that mean it has to

⏹️ ▶️ John have a non-retina screen or otherwise it’s not an Air? Or does it just have to have the name Air on it and it’ll be like,

⏹️ ▶️ John surprise, Apple’s decided to keep that line going even though there’s no real reason to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but you know, Air does mean something in hardware terms. The Air has always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used this line of Intel CPUs that has a thermal power of roughly 17 watts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the MacBook One uses like six watt CPUs, so it’s a lot less power, and therefore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can be fanless, but it also is not nearly as fast, can’t sustain a load for nearly as long, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a bunch of limitations, like in how many ports it can have due to various limitations of the chipset and everything else. So the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One, like it’s never gonna be as powerful as a recently updated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Air could be, because the MacBook Air just has a much higher power budget.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then above the MacBook Air, you have the 13 and 15 inch MacBook Pros. And those use, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 15 inch uses like a 45 watt line. I forget what wattage the 13 inch uses. I think it was like 25 or 30. Anyway, whatever it is, it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot more than 17. And so you have this like slot in the middle. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Air, one of the reasons it could be so thin and so light

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so small is because these really low power CPUs were just an awesome balance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of power versus performance. That lineup of these little 17-watt CPUs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been, as yet, completely unused in anything with a Retina screen, and therefore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco completely unused in anything that a power user like us might care about, because most of us want Retina screens.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it turns out that balance is awesome. For what most people need out of a laptop, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, the MacBook One, the most recent MacBook One, the second one, got a lot faster than the first one, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still nowhere near what an updated Air could do. And the MacBook one, a lot of people complain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, you know, and I used one briefly, I know, like, you know, it’s kind of slow. Well, it turns out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the MacBook Air has a lot fewer people complaining about the slowness because the MacBook Air CPUs can actually be substantially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco faster. And so to not use that processor line in anything, I think is a waste

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s such a good balance of battery life and low heat versus performance. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they could do is basically have the MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 13-inch come down and use that processor line or at least offer it as an option

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and kind of replace what the Air used to be. But then you have nothing using these here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco David Schaub in the chat has clarified that the 13-inch uses a 28-watt CPU. So it basically goes 5 or 6 watts for the MacBook One, 16 or 17 for the Air, 28 for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 13, and 45 for the 15. So these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are distinct power classes that are pretty far from each other. the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air compared to the 13-inch, it’s twice as much. I mean, it’s twice or half as much. It’s a huge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gap. And the MacBook One to MacBook Air is three times as much. So these are major power

⏹️ ▶️ Marco differences in the heat, the battery life, the budget. These are huge power differences.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s why these computers are able to be so different in size and in battery life. It’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they choose the sizes arbitrarily. It’s because this massive power-sucking component

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the of the computer is chosen and kind of in these buckets and then they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can they can shrink the rest of computer the rest of the computer around that so that it can be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco smallest lightest computer possible that can still give you know an X watt CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough battery life to be practical and useful to people

⏹️ ▶️ John what I was getting at with the airline not having a place anymore is because the airline was introduced as the ultra portable

⏹️ ▶️ John and the air name is going away because the you know the iPad air is now replaced by the I mean even they still

⏹️ ▶️ John sell it like it’s on its way out. And the Air laptop continues to have the name Air despite the

⏹️ ▶️ John fact that it is no longer the smallest lightest laptop. So what I would totally expect out of a 13-inch computer that people keep

⏹️ ▶️ John calling a 13-inch MacBook Air is for it to be a 13-inch MacBook, not a 13-inch MacBook Pro using

⏹️ ▶️ John the 15 or 28, you know, 15 watt CPU in there, but to be a 13-inch

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook. Because I don’t think there’s anything that says that the MacBook has to be fanless. The really small MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John can be fanless. The next one up can have a wee little fan in it, and then you go

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Pro 13 and

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro 15. That seems like a line that makes sense to me. MacBook Pro and MacBook. I see no place

⏹️ ▶️ John for the Air branding except for as a legacy thing where it’s like they have non-retina screens, they’re super

⏹️ ▶️ John cheap, and you’re right that it’s weird that they’ve been the only one to have this particular balance of power

⏹️ ▶️ John and, you know, size. That’s Apple’s fault for just deciding to let the Air be like

⏹️ ▶️ John this legacy line and not using that chip anyplace else, but I think now would be the time to use that chip

⏹️ ▶️ John someplace else or the chips in that class, not the specific chip. And I think it is more

⏹️ ▶️ John natural for it to fit as a 13 inch MacBook than to fit as like pushing

⏹️ ▶️ John up the line or whatever. And then then the airline really does go away or becomes like the iPad air where like, yeah, they

⏹️ ▶️ John continue to sell it at an even more discounted price just to just because they can. But then the you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’d have the MacBook, you’d have the slightly bigger MacBook, and then you’d have the MacBook Pro and you have a slightly bigger MacBook Pro. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ John that would make a nice lineup.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but at that point, if you’re saying that… The difference between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what is now the MacBook, the MacBook One, and the MacBook Air line, the Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can be twice as fast, it can have way more ports and more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kinds of ports, and a bigger screen, and so if that considers itself within

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same family of these two very different computers, why does the MacBook Pro get a Pro designation?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How is that any different? GPU and 13 inch no the 13 doesn’t have it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 15 only has it optionally. Yeah, you could have it well barely you know only in the very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high end and it’s buggy and you get worse battery life if you choose an option. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John everything I feel like it could be distinguished the 13 inch pro would be thicker heavier

⏹️ ▶️ John and that thickness and heaviness would give it more battery to do more power sucking stuff whether it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John having a higher clock CPU or more RAM or an external GPU on the high M

⏹️ ▶️ John model or anything like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but you said you can say the exact same thing about going from the 12 inch to the 13 inch like it’s like it’s the same.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s the same scale of difference between the current MacBook one and the rumored retina MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as there would be between this retina MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro line.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, look, you’ve got you’ve got three classes of CPU and you only got two names, right? Because I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the air name is on its way out. So you’ve got to divide down the middle between MacBook and MacBook Pro. So

⏹️ ▶️ John the middle CPU thing has got to go on one side of the other. And I think it should go on the MacBook side. If it goes in the

⏹️ ▶️ John pro side, oh, well, but it seems more natural for me to go for it to go on the MacBook side.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think I agree. I think the MacBook Air name goes away. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that we are left with MacBooks and MacBook Pros, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all that remains. Well, maybe. OK, so maybe like older devices would retain the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Air name. But I’m talking about the brand new devices, whatever is considered the most modern.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it would either be MacBook. or MacBook Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now David Chau was pointing out in the chat room that we actually have four classes. You got the 45 watt and the 15 inch, the 28 watt and the 13 inch, and then you’re down into the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Air at 16 and MacBook at five. So if you’re gonna put the 16 and fives, or 15 and fives down in the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John and the 45 and 28s in the Pro, that’s an even split then.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it really depends on what things Apple actually decides to use because just

⏹️ ▶️ John because CPU, classes of CPUs are available, doesn’t mean that Apple will necessarily use them in

⏹️ ▶️ John their products. I just think the air, the whole air naming thing doesn’t make sense anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John It needs to be on its way out. But I think people keep using that name because it’s the only way they have to refer to a machine that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not a pro and it’s not the skinny little Mac book. Um, actually the way I wanted to start this off, although

⏹️ ▶️ John because only one of us are 1.5 of us are looking at the notes was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey for the October 27th Apple event.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think one place to start would be what should Apple announce in order of priority?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like what’s the most important thing for them to announce second most important third pros or whatever and then after that we can say what? We

⏹️ ▶️ John wish they would announce ignoring what’s actually important for the company. So Who runs to go first? What what

⏹️ ▶️ John should Apple announce at this October 27th? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no there’s no question It has to be new MacBook Pros because that is the workhorse of the lineup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as far as I’m concerned I agree with you that a lot of MacBook Airs get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sold and And maybe somebody has numbers, somebody outside Apple has numbers. Maybe it’s more MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Airs than MacBook Pros. But man, I think business runs, a lot of businesses run on MacBook Pros.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, Airs too, I guess, but a lot of businesses run on MacBook Pros. I see MacBook Pros everywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think they have to announce MacBook Pros. I think that’s non-negotiable, or an equivalent thereof, if for some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason they change the name. I think that’s non-negotiable.

⏹️ ▶️ John I agree, that’s number one. I mean, it’s obvious, number one. It’s the thing I think if we had to put money, we would all bet on

⏹️ ▶️ John as the most likely thing they have to because it is it is the most important Mac that they have is their laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John line and the MacBook Pros they they’ve been have

⏹️ ▶️ John been updated a long time they’re really important computer if they care about Macs at all they need to and almost certainly

⏹️ ▶️ John will announce new MacBook Pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well if you look at what is most important for them to announce if you go by like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim Cook Apple it’s probably the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ John well Well, we’re talking about Macs at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, okay. I

⏹️ ▶️ John guess based on the little advertisement, although we’re not reading too much into it, it says, hello again, that’s a Mac reference,

⏹️ ▶️ John this event is going to be on Macs. Will there be other things at this event? Who knows? Who knows what other stuff they’re announcing? But the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ John are already a thing. I feel like this event is going to be about Macs for the most part.

⏹️ ▶️ John And unless you think there’s some other higher priority thing that they need to announce in October

⏹️ ▶️ John that they haven’t already announced.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, AirPods are probably going to make them more money than the MacBook Pro will for a while.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know but they already

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco announced that. We

⏹️ ▶️ John already

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know

⏹️ ▶️ John about those. Yeah but you can’t buy them yet. No but you will be able to like sure they’ll announce a date or whatever but do you think announcing

⏹️ ▶️ John the date for that is more important than new Macs?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know maybe to Tim. I honestly don’t think that Tim gives much thought to the Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not that he like hates it or doesn’t care about it I just don’t think he gives it a lot of thought. I really don’t. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway personal CEO speculation aside Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s probably the MacBook Pro. I think you’re right. I do think the MacBook Air is probably, if I had to guess, the one that sells the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most. However, MacBook Air buyers tend to buy it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is so cheap. And so it’s often like schools and people who are buying a ton of them and who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need them to be as affordable as possible because they’re buying a ton. In the case of schools, they don’t have massive budgets.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s probably the MacBook Air, while it is very important for it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exist and be sold and, in my opinion, good, I think it’s less important that it be radically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to date. The MacBook Pro, on the other hand, sells to people who more often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco care about how, you know, fresh it is. And MacBook Pro buyers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would probably be more irked than MacBook Air buyers at the prospect of buying a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two- or three-year-old one brand new.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think the crisis they’re facing here, the whole hello again thing basically acknowledges is they are

⏹️ ▶️ John acknowledging that the people who do not buy the most volume, because like I

⏹️ ▶️ John said, the most volume is the cheap ones, right? But the people who buy cheap ones are not like waiting for Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John events and looking for announcements. It’s the enthusiast community or like the more advanced pro users

⏹️ ▶️ John who have even noticed that Apple has not updated their Mac line in a really long time. We’re,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we’re the only people who even notice. So this is, it’s an important, there’s no like lack

⏹️ ▶️ John of, there’s no, there’s no faith gap among the people who are buying MacBook Airs because they don’t know or care

⏹️ ▶️ John like how Apple updates the MacBook Airs already ancient they have non retina screens you’d be told one of the people like non

⏹️ ▶️ John retina what I don’t know what you’re talking about I like this laptop right that’s not what this is invented for that’s why I think the

⏹️ ▶️ John highest priority the most important thing that they have to announce here is the MacBook Pros not because they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to sell more MacBook Pros than MacBook Airs but because that’s what this event is all about announcing things they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like you have to move you have to move ahead of the train ahead like the tail end that’s going like

⏹️ ▶️ John nobody cares about that. So I think history has shown you could not update the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John for a long time. They still keep selling, which we think is awful as enthusiasts. Tim Cook probably likes. So

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re all in agreement. Mac Pro is the most important with corollary about AirPods making

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of money for Tim. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, ultimately, like here’s here’s what I would like. See, like I I get I get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why Tim Cook doesn’t have to care that much about things like the Mac Mini and keeping the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air up to date. I get why, but all of us are Apple fans because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple for many product categories and for many times throughout

⏹️ ▶️ Marco its history has stood for being the best, making things the best they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can make them. Making what they consider to be the best products possible. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at the Mac Mini, is that really the best product possible? No, of course not. Apple doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco care about it. If you look at the 21-inch iMac that still ships with a 5400

⏹️ ▶️ Marco RPM hard drive standard, is that the best product Apple can make? No, of course not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Basically, you can look at a lot of the Mac lineup and whether it’s entry levels being way too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco low spec-wise that that actually make for bad products like hard drive-equipped computers in 2016,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or if you look at Mac product lines that just almost never get updated and continue selling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the oldest hardware forever like the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini. I just wish Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cared about these things as much as we do because Apple as a brand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and I do believe that many of the people at both high and low levels of the company believe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this and think this way, Apple tries to make the best products they possibly can make in so many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco categories and for some reason they think it’s okay to completely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco neglect, almost to an insulting degree, some of their Mac product lines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to me, like, that’s not Apple-like. At least that’s not that’s not the way Apple thinks it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is and presents itself and the way that we Apple enthusiasts want them to be. Even though, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actions speak louder than words. So right now, that’s the kind of company Apple is. But I wish they weren’t. I wish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they were the kind of company that they project themselves as and that we expect them to be. You know, So everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you sell, you should try to make it as good as you can make it. Because that’s what, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to pick like one Apple value, like what are Apple’s values, or what does Apple stand for?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s that. It’s that everything they make should be the best thing that they can make. You can’t say that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about a Mac Pro that hasn’t been updated in three years, or a Mac Mini that hasn’t been updated in probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about as long, or these computers that skip generations because Apple just doesn’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new hardware to put in them, and they’ll keep selling it only because it keeps selling. Like the 101 laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the, you know, all the… like keeping selling anything non-retina

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in 2016, anything with a spinning hard drive in 2016, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these are not the best products they can be. And margins might suffer a little bit and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might have to put in some engineering effort sometimes into product lines that aren’t that popular, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they’re worth making at all, make them the best they can be, because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what Apple is supposed to actually stand for.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would add just a qualifier there, because I can imagine people typing up their tweet replies right now, and say,

⏹️ ▶️ John listen, it’s the best they can be within their price point, obviously. No one is saying that every single

⏹️ ▶️ John computer has to have the very best components, and every Mac has to have Xeon processors and ECC RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s within the price range, and what we’re saying is, The Mac Pro is a great example, even though it is the high-end machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can Apple make and sell a Mac Pro at its current price

⏹️ ▶️ John point with better hardware? Unquestionably. Same thing for the Mini. It’s not saying that

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac Mini has to have the top-end hardware. It’s like the philosophy that Apple itself expresses a lot of times, that when they do anything,

⏹️ ▶️ John they want to make it the best they can. And in their own statements, it’s implied, the best we can

⏹️ ▶️ John within the realm of this reason for this price point. So when they make a keyboard, and like we spent a really long time working

⏹️ ▶️ John on this KeyClick, So Casey would be really happy and we wanted to make it. They’re making the best keyboard they can.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re not making a keyboard that costs $3,000. Like, it’s not, well, I bet you could make it better for 3,000.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, they have a target price for like, what is a reasonable price for a keyboard for, you know, like, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John obvious, but it’s within the price ranges. When you don’t, even the 101, which is like, fine. If

⏹️ ▶️ John education wants like a Mac with an optical drive and a non-retina screen that’s really rugged or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John if that’s a product, fine, that’s a product slot. but you still have to say, if people are gonna buy this computer

⏹️ ▶️ John year after year, next year, we should have a ever so slightly better, more rugged,

⏹️ ▶️ John more reliable, more efficient, more pleasing Mac with an optical drive

⏹️ ▶️ John and an on-retina screen for education. Like just, you know, you don’t have to update them constantly, but are

⏹️ ▶️ John you saying, you know, we don’t ever want to invest any more money in this ever again, but we will sell it

⏹️ ▶️ John year after year after year, and that is un-Apple-like. It’s not the fact that they’re not making

⏹️ ▶️ John that computer have you know a 5 gigahertz processor and an amazing retina p3 screen on it like that’s not what

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re saying it’s That if you’re gonna sell it at all Like are you is this a computer you’re proud to sell

⏹️ ▶️ John like are you proud to sell that iMac with a 5400 rpm drive? Would you be proud to give this to somebody

⏹️ ▶️ John and say? We’re apple and we’re proud of all of our products take this 21 inch iMac with a 5400 rpm screen

⏹️ ▶️ John You’d be apologizing every five minutes. Yeah, you know This is not what most max are like. We’re sorry

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if you feel like you have to apologize to someone like yes I feel that as a tech person, if someone buys the wrong product and

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re kind of like, this is not representative of what all these things are like. You actually got the worst possible

⏹️ ▶️ John one and it’s really slow. And I know it was also still a lot of money for you. That’s the other reason, because Apple’s products are a lot of money

⏹️ ▶️ John relative to their competing products. There has to be a trade-off for that. You have to

⏹️ ▶️ John be able to say, it doesn’t have to be as snappy as a Mac Pro, but every year make it a little better.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s been a lot of little references here and there around our community about how you You don’t really need to defend Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as hard as you do. Apple can defend themselves. They’re a huge company, et cetera, et cetera.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one of the things I keep seeing whenever I mention a 13-inch, basically that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco believe that it is both time and that it is likely that we will see a 13-inch Retina MacBook Air next week, a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people say, oh, you can’t do Retina in that size because it costs too much. No, it doesn’t. Look around at the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire rest of the computing industry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Look

⏹️ ▶️ John at the iPad. It probably costs more to get those non-Retina screens at this point. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco At some point, they’re going to stop making the non-retina screens and Apple won’t be able to buy them anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Look around the industry. Hardware is shockingly cheap. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ridiculously cheap. Look around and a lot of stuff has similar or nicer screens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for less money. It can be done. It can totally be done. It is 2016. It is almost 2017.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can have a Retina MacBook Air size screen at $1000

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and still have a profit margin healthy enough for Apple. Like that is totally possible. Hardware’s a cheap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these days. If you wanted to put a 256 gig SSD as the base

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model storage in every single Mac that is sold, you could totally do it and the effects on margins

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would probably not be very substantial at all. It might not even be noticeable. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is totally possible to go all Retina, all SSD today

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the Mac lineup. It’s only up to Apple when they do that. And as soon as they can go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all Retina and all SSD, their computers will be, across the board,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a solid recommendation. It’ll be so much better. And they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not there yet because they just keep preserving the Tim Cook wave, just keep selling everything forever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and no matter how old or ancient or crappy it is, if someone’s still buying it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll keep selling it at whatever low price we can get.” No, that’s not Apple. That is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what Apple has ever stood for. That is not what most Apple people like to think Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stands for, and that is not what Apple’s customers think Apple stands for.

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⏹️ ▶️ John So the obvious follow up to this, what should Apple announce in order of priority? We all agreed on the number one, talking

⏹️ ▶️ John about MacBook Pros, talking about larger issues. Harder question, what is the second highest priority

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that they should announce at this event? Apple Pencil 2. Oh my goodness. Now with

⏹️ ▶️ John an eraser

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Seriously, I think we all answered that and I think it’s the MacBook Air or if John and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I are right the 13-inch MacBook Whatever whatever fills that slot I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the second most important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean and if you can look at like other things that are very likely I think the iMac is very likely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a an update I think Kaby Lake is ready for that class of CPU isn’t it?

⏹️ ▶️ John But do you think that’s important like so are you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mostly agree that it’s something in that range of products, whether it ends up being a MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John or a MacBook Pro with 13 inches, the second most important. What is the third most important? Is the iMac the third most important?

⏹️ ▶️ John Because I feel like of all the line of computer, the 5K iMac is the one that I have the least problem

⏹️ ▶️ John recommending in terms of Macs at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, because the 5K iMac uses a class of CPUs that is very regularly updated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by Intel. It’s almost always the first one to get certain things. It’s like this big high power one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess they’re probably easier to make. And so it was the first one with Skylake last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco winter. And now, because it has Skylake now, right? And then I believe the Kaby Lake

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version is basically ready now, because it gets updated about every fall. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iMac will probably get an update to the Kaby Lake, because I believe Kaby Lake is a fairly minor update.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t think it’s crying out for a Kaby Lake upgrade. Do you think, like, is that, of all the problems that

⏹️ ▶️ John are with the current 5K iMacs, you saying I wish it had a slightly faster CPU.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John not on my high on my list.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but there the iMac is like it’s the iMac is already plenty fast. What I’m guessing it’s going to get it already

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has the wide gamut color from last year. So the screen is already like top notch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m guessing it has to convert to USB C and have Thunderbolt three.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s so that’s you know, that’s like the obvious thing like that like you know, if Apple ever gets around to making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything retina and SSD, the next big transition is moving everything over to USB-C and Thunderbolt 3,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or everything that can do that, which should be most of their computers, just not all of them. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would imagine the iMac gets an update that is a moderate CPU increase, GPUs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco potentially better, who knows.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And then-

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the only rumor about the iMac, is everyone saying new iMacs with better GPUs. And if I had to pick one thing that needed to be upgraded,

⏹️ ▶️ John honestly, at this point, I would pick faster GPU over USB-C for the iMac, but that’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, USB-C has another interesting thing, which is that there’s also this rumor about the 5k external display

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and if the information that we have on that is right from a TV tipster and which I believe the rumor sites have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all corroborated at this point although he was telling us like six months ago but if the if the information is right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 5k monitor is very likely to ship this time it is based on Thunderbolt 3 over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a USB C plug and that it will only be compatible with Macs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that have USB C with Thunderbolt 3 on them which is currently none of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and will presumably be everything announced the next week, so presumably it’ll be the new MacBook Pros,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the MacBook Air is new, that thing too, and the new iMac, so all those things should, in theory,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be able to drive this new display and probably no other Macs, including

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the current Mac Pro, which will be slightly embarrassing, but nobody buys the Mac Pro anyway, so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of torn on the third priority after the MacBook Pros and the MacBook, because

⏹️ ▶️ John I really don’t feel like the 5K iMac needs it, other than like you said, being able to drive the monitor in theory they’re announcing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, maybe you could list that monitor as the third item, but it’s kind of like a tie for me between

⏹️ ▶️ John the iMac and the Mac Pro. Even though nobody buys the Mac Pro, in terms of priority order of what they should

⏹️ ▶️ John announce to have a positive, to make up for the areas where they have problems, the areas where they

⏹️ ▶️ John have problems or the Macs that they have not updated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the longest. And should is very different than will. I thought these were guesses. No, we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John still on the should. What should they announce in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco order

⏹️ ▶️ John of priority? And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John totally saying that, you know, MacBook Pro’s, that is the highest priority, MacBook’s second highest priority, and then

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro and iMac are kind of a tie because the Mac Pro is like, really that is, if they care

⏹️ ▶️ John about Pro at all, like, I mean, obviously they can’t do this. If they’re doing Skylake-y, they just can’t, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John We know, that’s why none of us expect a Mac Pro. We’ll get to what they think they’re gonna do next, but if they had made

⏹️ ▶️ John wiser choices and had a MacBook, had a Mac Pro ready to go with a pre

⏹️ ▶️ John Skylake but post whatever the hell Haswell-y thing they’re using in the old ones. Is that what the old ones use?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t remember anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old Mac Pro is Ivy Bridge and they missed Haswell and Broadwell.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, okay. Anyway, that’s what they should do. They’re not going to, but I feel like that would be a tie

⏹️ ▶️ John for the Mac. None of us think that the Mac Mini, because the Mac Mini is not symbolic of any segment that we think

⏹️ ▶️ John is important. It’s like, there’s the Pro segment and then there’s the stuff that everybody else buys and then the Mac Mini is

⏹️ ▶️ John like, not pro, not everybody else, weird little thing. And

⏹️ ▶️ John honestly, it is a shame they don’t update it, but I think it is at the bottom of their priorities in terms

⏹️ ▶️ John of what they should announce to reassure any community of purchasers

⏹️ ▶️ John or to make up for past sins or whatever, because the Mac mini has been on this pay no mind list

⏹️ ▶️ John for its entire life, basically, and it should just be used to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. No, I mean, if we’re going for what should they announce to convince people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who are paying attention that they let their heads in the right place, a Mac Pro is definitely number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three, if not even number two. But in terms of what they will actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco announce, I don’t think we have a chance of it, because as you mentioned a few minutes ago,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically the Mac Pro is currently kind of between two generations. Like, if Apple is going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to release a Mac Pro with a certain family of Intel Xeon CPUs, usually they do it very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco promptly with that family’s release to the public. And the last Xeon CPUs were released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back in June. That was the Broadwell E line. So I doubt, like if they were going to ship Mac Pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that used Broadwell, they probably would have already done that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So if- Yeah, they should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have, but they didn’t. Right. And the Skylake E Xeons, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these names all lag behind the consumer chips. There’s good reasons for that. But basically, Skylake is coming to the Xeon family,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco allegedly in the first half of 2017. So my guess is that we get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Skylake Mac Pro, if it is going to exist, we get that probably at WBC of next year,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which will be awesome if it exists because Skylake on the Mac Pro is actually a really big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco upgrade. Like the Skylake Xeon chipset, this Intel’s code name, Pearly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chipset, has a bunch of big improvements, you know, like higher throughputs on things, more PCI Express,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better memory, all sorts of improvements that will be bigger than the average Xeon upgrade. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if we’re waiting for that, like, okay, it’d be nice if they had one now, but that’s gonna be an awesome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac Pro when it eventually comes out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, it’s weird because I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I think that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey updating the Mac Pro is considerably more important than updating the iMac. The iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t that old, and I concur that it’s not likely to happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and God, I hope it doesn’t happen because then you two will go on for 17 episodes. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think it is important for it to happen. It’s just, unfortunately,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the timing is all off. But it should happen for sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you have to balance, like the reason I’m doing this prior to this is you have to balance not just like, oh, what is the most lagging? But it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, there’s a balance between the volume of these that you sell, how important is this

⏹️ ▶️ John to the entire product line, and how far behind is it? And that’s why I think the MacBook Pros and the MacBook needs to come first because their volume

⏹️ ▶️ John is just so much more than the Mac Pro. But at a certain point, even at the infinitesimal volumes of the Mac Pro cells,

⏹️ ▶️ John it becomes symbolic. And that’s why I feel like it’s kind of in the number three slot. Tied with the iMac, which the iMac sells

⏹️ ▶️ John way more than the Mac Pro. In

⏹️ ▶️ John other words, I don’t wanna say, oh, you’ve updated the iMac recently. You can give that one a year and a half

⏹️ ▶️ John vacation. Like, no, don’t, keep doing what you know. The rate of progress on the iMac has been

⏹️ ▶️ John good. It’s been, hey, 5K iMac, and then very shortly after, hey, 5K iMac with a better screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John and it should be very shortly after that, hey, 5K Mac with USB-C that can drive this new monitor, like, you know, keep

⏹️ ▶️ John doing that. That’s what you’re supposed to, it’s the one Mac you’re doing the right thing with, so I almost don’t wanna say, oh, you don’t have to update, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not important, but it is in the number three slot, maybe tied with the Mac Pro. So this is like top four, where we can just pick all the pinks

⏹️ ▶️ John for the number

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco three slot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, so how important do you guys think the external 5K display

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is? Because I think it’s probably a very boring product, but I think it’s actually a really big deal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to power users because a lot of power users use MacBook Pros or MacBook Airs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as their primary or only computer and they use them at a desk or, you know, moving around.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so many people I know use MacBook Pros with external monitors. And you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can get Retina so far with like various Dells and stuff, but it tends to be buggy and limited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and generally crappy. So this, you know, I would imagine, Casey, you’re probably like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first in line for this, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, yes and no. So I have very strong feelings about this.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have two Lenovo monitors at work. They’re probably 22 or 24 inches.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They’re completely unremarkable in every way. They I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think might be 1080, maybe. Again they’re so unremarkable I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even recall what resolution they are. I use the two of them side by side on a standing desk. I leave

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my MacBook Pro clamshelled when I’m at work. This generally speaking is actually fairly nice to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two reasonably large external monitors that are pretty much identical. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this becomes a fricking nightmare when I’m doing UI work in the simulator because these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey screens are not retina, which means when I shrink the simulator so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it actually fits on my screen, which means I’m shrinking it to, you know, like 50% at the least,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oftentimes I’ll drop things that are on the UI. Perfect example. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey constantly drop the dividing line between table view cells, constantly. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I think that there’s something wrong with my UI. Oh no, it’s just these piece of garbage monitors I’m viewing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this on. I understand that I could not clamshell my MacBook Pro. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could set that up and I could do the simulator on there. I understand that, but I don’t want to.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Call me bananas, whatever you want to do. It’s just not what I want to do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I want to use these external monitors.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Your bananas. Thanks, man. I want to use these external monitors. So because of this, I’ve been going back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and forth with our head IT guy trying to figure out, okay, I really want something that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey retina, and I don’t think that’s too much to ask. Here’s why, and I think I got him on board for that. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what can we do? And he said, well, generally speaking, I’d want to get you a cinema display or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Thunderbolt display. I go, no, no, no, no, no, I don’t want that. I don’t want that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t want that. He said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re right. You don’t want that. Yeah, you don’t. And he said, you don’t want that. And he knew they’d

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been discontinued, et cetera. But even then, even if they weren’t discontinued, they’re not retina, so it doesn’t help me. So I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had told him, after having surveyed Twitter like 16 different times, I told him I would like a particular Dell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 4K monitor. And we’ll put a link in the show notes because I don’t recall the exact model name offhand.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it’s like a 22 or 24-inch 4K monitor. They also have a 27-inch 5K monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is effectively an iMac, but it also has the price tag of an iMac because I think the 5K one is like $1,500. So the 4K one is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco about 400, give or take

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit on Amazon. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Solomon in the chat said P2415Q, and I’m pretty darn sure that’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So anyway, it’ll be in the show notes. So we ordered one, and it came in, and I took my two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Lenovo monitors off my desk. I put my fancy, shiny new Dell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco on my desk.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You told the story last week. Did I? Okay. I couldn’t recall if I had or not. And it was DOA.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have a 27-inch LG 4K monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I really like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s the wrong size. So on the way, but not here yet, is a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 24-inch equivalent LG monitor. And I’ve been going back and forth with our IT

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guy for like two months trying to figure out what monitor to buy, what price point we can hit, etc., etc., etc.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t necessarily know that this Phantom New Retina 5K external display, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sincerely doubt that it will be at a price point that My company will be willing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to pay you can’t drive it for your Mac Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John so what do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you and I wouldn’t be able to drive for my Mac anyways? You’re absolutely right, but let’s leave that aside just for a moment I’m assuming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’ll still be a thousand dollars Just like the Thunderbolt display was ripple before it got retired

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe higher

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not yet to your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point if not more I mean a thousand dollars for an Apple 5k display today would actually be a really competitive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deal. Sure, but it’s way more than, if you’re starting from the position of probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a $200 or $250 Lenovo monitor, it’s already a big deal for me to be asking for a $350 LG monitor.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And now we’re talking about a $1,000 or $1,500 Apple monitor. On the one side,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would be an easy sell because it’s first party. On the other side, there’s no freaking way they’re going to spend that kind of money on me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you’re right, Marco, that I would be first in line for it in the sense that I would want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it more than anything in the world, but I don’t think my company would pay for it. I don’t think I would want to pay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for it for a work computer. And either way, I think this is all kind of moot because John is exactly right. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unlikely that my existing, effectively brand new MacBook Pro would be able to drive it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway. So in summary, Casey is sad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I mean, this is obviously like, you know, in a perfect world, you would get a brand new computer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, in a few months or whatever that has all this stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey right? Obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not going to happen. Second option here, because, you know, if you need any ammo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with… it sounds like you don’t, but if you need any ammo with ID, you can tell them that Marco Arment, noted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey authority on whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco says that, like, seriously, if you are doing iOS development on a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac, it must be Retina, like, period. You have to, like, because the exact reason you mentioned,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, every iOS device that runs iOS 10 is Retina. So if you’re doing ios

⏹️ ▶️ Marco development you are running your software on retina devices and the simulator

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does not run correctly in an accurate way on non retina screens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless you like blow it up and then it looks but even even that is wrong for different reasons like to to responsibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco develop for ios if you have any budget at all and if you’re working for an employer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you cost them every month is way more than then like computer equipment so you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s understandable If you’re like a hobbyist and you only have an old Mac, fine, that’s one thing. But if you’re like working in an office for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a professional company in the United States that makes iOS and your job is to make iOS software,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need to be using a retina screen and preferably the largest one that you can possibly find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that is just the practical reality of developing iOS applications.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is what they need. It’s simple as that. So you might want to consider,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco although this is probably not going to happen and you’re probably going to tell me immediately no. In the meantime,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you can’t get them to spring for a brand new computer and a brand new 5K monitor next year or next month

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or next week, what about switching to a 5K iMac at work? Is that an option?

⏹️ ▶️ John That costs a lot more than a $350 NOAA or whatever monitor that was, LG monitor. Yeah, the LG monitor is under $350 and even two of them is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cheaper than one iMac. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s funny because from time to time I work from home and as long as I’m hitting our production

⏹️ ▶️ Casey servers, I’m not doing any work that requires our QA or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey development servers, I don’t need to be on our VPN. And I will do work from home

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my iMac and it is amazing. It is so much nicer than doing work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at work.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco See, that’s a problem. Well, right. No, it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It really is. And in that sense, you’re absolutely right. But for better or worse, right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wrong or indifferent, I prefer to have a laptop so that if I want to work from home and I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need to get on the VPN or I need to have something that for some crazy reason is only on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my work laptop, I’d prefer to have a laptop, which means I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my future setup will be either one or two of these LG monitors. I think all told, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be really happy with it. But the initial reply from my IT guy was,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, throw away one of your Lenovo monitors and use your laptop and shut up. Which, truth be told,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is not an unreasonable answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco But- Yeah, that is also an option.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but I like having the two identical screens, and so that’s why I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey avoiding that. I think in the future I will probably end up doing one of these 4Ks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then bite the bullet and un-clamshell my MacBook Pro. Or in a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more perfect world, two of the 4K displays, and in the most perfect of perfect worlds,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somehow the company falls upon even more money and they get me one of these Phantom new displays with one of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Phantom new Macs. But given that my Mac is on a two-year lease and I’ve only been there like seven or eight months, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably not going to happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What about two MacBook Pros side by side? Why not? That’s right. You have your two side-by-side monitors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are the exact same size, they’re both Retina, and your company seems to be totally okay buying MacBook Pros.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, if only we were that easy. Well, leasing MacBook Pros, and if only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that easy.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I hear you. And so in that sense, yeah, this is a very long way to say, heck yeah, I’d love to have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of these phantom, you know, USB-C 5K displays, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t foresee one being in my future unless I fund it. And even then it won’t be for two years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because my Mac, my work Mac won’t support it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Kind of like the Mac mini, uh, Apple has conditioned us all over many

⏹️ ▶️ John years, not just a Thunderbolt display not to expect Apple to update its monitors in any reasonable time

⏹️ ▶️ John frame. So that’s why I think despite the fact that I really want a 5k display to connect

⏹️ ▶️ John to a hypothetical Mac Pro in the future, it’s below all the other items in terms

⏹️ ▶️ John of what they should do because Apple’s history with monitors is just abysmal. Like they’ll introduce

⏹️ ▶️ John an amazing monitor and just let it sit there for years. And then introduce another amazing

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor and let it sit there for years and then apparently now discontinue it. And then I fully expect if they continue

⏹️ ▶️ John to make monitors at all, they will eventually announce another amazing monitor and then let it sit there for years.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the trick is buy it around the time they announce it when it’s still amazing. Don’t buy it at the

⏹️ ▶️ John end of its umpteen year life cycle. So I’m trying not

⏹️ ▶️ John to get my hopes up about it being announced. I won’t be disappointed if it’s not announced. But either way, I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s in their priority list. It doesn’t come before any of the things that we’ve discussed so far in terms of that they have to do this to

⏹️ ▶️ John either because they’re going to sell a lot of them, which they’re not a thousand dollar monitor or that they need to reassure people which they don’t because

⏹️ ▶️ John like the Mac Mini we’re all just used to the fact that monitors are not a thing that Apple updates.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, John, you were the one who had kind of a flow to how we would discuss this. What comes next?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the other angle on this is things that we wish they would announce, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ve mostly covered that with the things that we would want versus the things that are actually

⏹️ ▶️ John important for Apple to announce. So we already talked about the Mac Pros and the monitor and all sorts of other stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do we, do any of us think there is a reasonable chance of a wild card that

⏹️ ▶️ John is not related to Macs or AirPods or anything that like is expected or rumored?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John hear that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a hub that’s coming, one of these days. Yeah, the hub wild card. I don’t know, I don’t think so. I’ll snark

⏹️ ▶️ Casey aside, there’s nothing I can think of.

⏹️ ▶️ John The wild card could be something about the Macs that we’re not talking about, like we haven’t mentioned like, you know, Touch

⏹️ ▶️ John ID and all that doesn’t count. We’ve all seen the rumors that like something that has not even been rumored.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB 3 to Ethernet. They don’t have that. They only have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB 2 or Thunderbolt. That’s true,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco true. Except

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re saying hubs and dongles. I mean, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that counts as

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a wild card.

⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, like is that, I don’t know if that, it’s true that we haven’t been

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about that mostly because it’s not that interesting because there’s a million third party things that you can plug into your Macs and they will

⏹️ ▶️ John continue to be. But maybe that counts, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So here’s a question, I mean, you know, more on the MacBook Pros, cause there are still a few big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things we don’t know about them and that a lot of people keep asking about. Do you think they will have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lightning ports for headphones? My guess is no, because I think lightning ports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are gonna stay iOS device only for plenty of various like, you know, platform chip reasons and all likelihood,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think they have Touch ID in there.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Hold on,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hold on, hold on. Before we answer, okay, let’s assume they do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not have lightning ports for headphones, Marco. Would you say then that they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a headphone jack at all, or is it screw you, it’s Bluetooth or nothing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I suspect they will still have a headphone jack or a lightning port. And honestly, I think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more likely answer is they’re still just gonna have a headphone port. But I think they’re gonna have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one or the other. They’re not gonna have nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think they will still have a plain old headphone port. Mostly though, because

⏹️ ▶️ John I would imagine slash hope that these Macs hardware was designed

⏹️ ▶️ John longer ago than we would like to think. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Intel delays with the Skylake and everything like that, that, uh, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this will have headphone ports. Now, second question is, what do you think they should have?

⏹️ ▶️ John Would you like a MacBook of any kind that did not have a plain old

⏹️ ▶️ John headphone jack, but instead had either a lightning jack or nothing? Is that something that would be attractive to you in any way

⏹️ ▶️ John or you just see as damage basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean I’m always on Bluetooth. I shouldn’t say always. From time to time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I have forgotten to charge my headphones in forever, which occasionally happens but is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very, very rare, I would plug in my old earbuds or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in potentially my lightning earbuds to the Mac. But for me, it would not bother

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me if there was no audio jack of any kind and it was Bluetooth

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To me, if I’m using my MacBook for some kind of audio output,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the things I would do most often there is podcast editing while traveling. And so I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t take any latency or podcast recording is also be a big thing. So I mean, although that wouldn’t use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a built-in headphone jack. Anyway, basically latency is a big deal killer for me on that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Bluetooth would be a very hard sell. So if there’s any kind of if I’m using headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on a Mac laptop, most of the time I’m going to want them to be wired. And so if they’re going to be wired

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway, they might as well either be the same lightning headphones that I can presumably use with my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone if I ever make that switch, I probably will eventually or a regular headphone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco jack.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I’m pretty much on board with the idea of in the future replacing the headphone jack with lighting

⏹️ ▶️ John jack on Macs. I’m not so necessarily saying Apple’s going to do it, I would be mostly okay with that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just think that it should lag behind the conversion of the iOS ecosystem because

⏹️ ▶️ John you know We just have the iPhone 7 which is the first device to do this Give it a few years see if the

⏹️ ▶️ John headphone situation shakes itself out if it does and it looks like it’s safe and you have Lots and lots of people

⏹️ ▶️ John with lightning headphones or with those little 9l adapters or whatever It’s like then okay all clear you can

⏹️ ▶️ John replace the headphone jack on the max And the only reason you’d be replacing it is basically uniformity and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know I mean it’s not like you’re trying to shave those little pieces little bits of size out of the inside

⏹️ ▶️ John of your MacBooks it’s not as constrained as it is on a phone but the uniformity would be nice

⏹️ ▶️ John and I think once they start adding Touch ID and stuff to Macs you start incorporating

⏹️ ▶️ John chips and other technologies from iOS devices into Macs for that purpose it’s not too far to go

⏹️ ▶️ John from there to lightning and I think you can do potentially interesting things with a lightning port. It’s it’s I know it’s weird

⏹️ ▶️ John to like you’ve got USB-C right next to lightning and they’re similar sizes and we talked about this way back in the day about like oh won’t it

⏹️ ▶️ John be confusing to have two and they’ll put them in the wrong slots and stuff. I feel like these are surmountable problems but

⏹️ ▶️ John uh in the short term I would prefer if the Macs they announce uh on the

⏹️ ▶️ John 27th have a plain old headphone jack and I would not like a Mac that has neither of those things in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. Yeah I mean I don’t think it would bother me but but the only time it would really bother me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that occurred to me when you were talking is I don’t have noise-canceling or noise-isolating headphones that are Bluetooth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So on a plane, when I want to listen to my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ultimate ears that are in-ears that are noise-isolating, there are traditional wired headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or earbuds, whatever. And that would really annoy me because typically I’ll use either

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my iPad or my Mac on a long flight and so that would really bum me out unless I could do the lightning to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey traditional headphone dance. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and you know, Apple’s response to that kind of thing, usually, like, if they move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a new thing, or the deletion of an old technology like a port,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it results in people having to just buy new X, in this case, you know, buy new headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this problem goes away, if it can be solved that way, Apple doesn’t care. They’ll just say, okay, well fine, buy new headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You will eventually buy new headphones, so when that happens, you’ll be okay. Or maybe we’ll motivate you to buy them sooner rather than later. Apple does not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco care if that is the answer. It’s arguable whether they should care because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re throwing more cost on to people if they want to make this move. So that does add up and that money matters to most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who are buying it. But Apple doesn’t care. But the problem comes when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is nothing better to move to or if the things that they’re telling you, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this problem goes away if you just switch to X or you just stop needing Y. Sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the result of what you use instead, they just don’t have a good answer for that or the answer is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has a lot of other downsides that the old way didn’t have.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I’ve got an idea for a wild card that as far as I know hasn’t been rumored, although I haven’t been paying that much attention

⏹️ ▶️ John to it. And this is a special feature just for Casey. How about a waterproof laptop?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. Ha, ha, ha. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John no, ha, ha. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I think it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, as we, you know, we’ve got the phone that is waterproof basically. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ John this is a feature that should be rolled out across the entire product line.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s no reason to not put it on iPads and everything else because it’s kind of weird to have this very expensive device

⏹️ ▶️ John that becomes important to your life that you bring around with you, that if you get like a little splash of water on it, potentially in

⏹️ ▶️ John the wrong spot, it’s dead. And it’s dead in a really bad way and that like there’s special provisions in the various

⏹️ ▶️ John warranties that Apple does, like it’s treated differently. It’s so, you know, I don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I like feeling a little bit more confident. And laptops, you know, people spill things in them all

⏹️ ▶️ John the time. Now, can you make it as waterproof as a phone? Probably not because of the keyboard and all that other stuff, whatever. But how

⏹️ ▶️ John about a more water resistant version of a laptop? Lots of, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, PC makers make laptops that are better about dealing with water than any of Apple’s.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think Apple can improve in this area, and that would be an interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John place to go. I think it’s an attractive feature for people. I think lots of people have spilled liquid into their laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you don’t have to sell it as like, you can use your laptop underwater in the pool. Just maybe like, be more

⏹️ ▶️ John resilient to splashes. That’s all I’m saying. I feel like they could do that. And it would be a benefit and everybody would see

⏹️ ▶️ John it. And if they rolled that across their entire product line, eventually we would take it for granted and wouldn’t be able to go back to the days where

⏹️ ▶️ John the tiniest splash can fry your whole computer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, if only it that’s a that’s a tough challenge, I think because like if you think about the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the physical attributes and needs of a laptop, Like, you know, one of the most common

⏹️ ▶️ Marco water problems they have is, as Casey knows, because people often have drinks on the table next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a laptop. This is, you know, in coffee shops, on desks, like all the time people have this. And so if that drink goes over,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s basically going to pour directly into the middle of the laptop where the laptop is covered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a giant grid of holes for keys to go through. And if it misses the keys,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll go into the speakers or the vents because they’re air cooled. on a phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t really have a you have a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John way smaller

⏹️ ▶️ John speaker you got speakers you got ports and the keyboard you can put in a big bathtub

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have a way smaller number of entry points on a phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s just a much simpler shape there’s there are fewer holes there you don’t have air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cooling of like the internals having a fan constantly sucking air through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John vents you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have that on the macbook either as i’m thinking you start with the macbook and you don’t try to keep water

⏹️ ▶️ John in the keyboard because it’s impossible Instead, you just make the keyboard a sealed off region where

⏹️ ▶️ John you can spill water in there, and then you pour the water out of there. Like, in other words, the water that goes in through the keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ John does not go to the rest of the computer. Speakers, same deal. You know, it’s just like on the watch or anything else or on the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone. Yes, there are speakers. Yes, you will get water in them and screw them up as long as you can get the water out

⏹️ ▶️ John and it doesn’t destroy the entire computer. And again, start with the MacBook, no fan, because that’s obviously the hardest one. Because you can, all

⏹️ ▶️ John the other things you can deal with, but fans, having like air cooling and waterproof really

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t mix with each other in any sane way. But I feel like this is

⏹️ ▶️ John an area where that could be improved. Even if you just did the keyboard part of it. Like the keyboard and speaker part, but still

⏹️ ▶️ John if you got water in the air vent, you’re still screwed, right? Because you’re right, the people spill it on the top of the thing. So

⏹️ ▶️ John this is a feature that Apple should roll out eventually, you know, across its entire

⏹️ ▶️ John product line. It probably is not gonna come this year, or we would have heard rumors of it, and if there were rumors,

⏹️ ▶️ John I miss them. But I think that’s a fun wild card.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and by the way, you know, for whatever it’s worth, we’re, we’re, we are about to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in all, you know, by all measures, we’re about to have at least two new Macs announced in a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week and probably three or more. Uh, and we have seen almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no parts leaks. We, like we, we know roughly, like there was like that one case,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the top case. Yeah. With the place where the little strip, we saw one 13 inch top case and that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was once ago and that’s it. We don’t know anything about the 15 inch. We don’t know anything about the possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco air if that wasn’t it. We don’t know anything about these computers except for some of the feature

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bullet points, which I think is kind of exciting. I love not knowing all the details of how they’re going to look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what exactly they’re going to have. And

⏹️ ▶️ John what colors they’ll come in or whatever. Yeah, well, it’s because people don’t care. That’s honestly what it is. There’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John lower volume. It’s easier to keep a secret when you sell in lower volume, and it’s easier to keep a secret and only

⏹️ ▶️ John weird Mac nerds care about this stuff so it must be a refreshing grapple.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know it’s funny uh John you just said something about colors and I’d like to go back like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey half an hour in the conversation uh wild card colors like having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that’s not a wild card that’s been rumored right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh has it okay well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well in the netbook one has colors so you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah I agree but I’m saying the the whole line or more of the line jet

⏹️ ▶️ John black

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh god I don’t I don’t I don’t think I want you at black, but a matte black, mm-mm-mm.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well here’s one thing I thought of too, and again, this is probably overthinking it, but if you look at the imitation,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the colors in that logo are very close to the metal colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Apple’s recent hardware is available in, with the exception of that orange. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you look at, they have a little tip of silver, a little gold, pink, and black.

⏹️ ▶️ John And red and orange, I don’t know, that’s a stretch.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, that’s why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s I mean it is a stretch, but you know there’s certainly something I I would expect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that there are probably going to be the metal you know at least the same colors the MacBook one is in which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is basically all them except a rose gold right there is there did they make a rose gold MacBook one finally or no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe this year they did.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the thing the thing with those colors is it’s all basically silver aluminum with a tint that is so

⏹️ ▶️ John gentle that depending on the lighting in the room they change appearance It’s like those cars that are gray but

⏹️ ▶️ John look very, you know, have some color. The colors are not particularly bold. Whereas I would say matte

⏹️ ▶️ John black is bold and obviously jet black is bold. I really don’t think they’re gonna make a jet black Mac, but they

⏹️ ▶️ John could totally make a matte black one and I would love it. I just haven’t seen it rumored.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would love to see it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because honestly, like the space gray MacBook One, I don’t think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it would look a lot better if it was darker, basically. Like, it looks fine, but like, If I were getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a MacBook One today, I actually wouldn’t necessarily get Space Gray, just because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not, I don’t know, it’s kind of a middle color, you know? Like I wish it’d be a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more towards one end or the other. Yep, I agree. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, anything else on the event? I know that there’s another thing that just got rumored today that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we can talk about, but anything else about the event specifically?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s related to the event, this next rumor thing, because the rumor,

⏹️ ▶️ John the story that was circulating today was about a keyboard that wasn’t just like

⏹️ ▶️ John a regular keyboard with a new strip on top of it that is a screen of some kind replacing

⏹️ ▶️ John the function keys, but rather that every key on the keyboard would be kind of like a miniature E-Ink

⏹️ ▶️ John display and be changeable, have all the key caps be changeable or whatever. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s weird to see this type of story breaking like shortly before an event when Max will be

⏹️ ▶️ John announced, but I think we all pretty much agree even these stories agree. Even if this whole thing

⏹️ ▶️ John about the E Ink keyboards is true, it’s not for this event, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that seemed consistent. It seemed kind of odd to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me. Like the idea in general, which is have the entire keyboard, every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey key be its own E Ink display, so it can change, you know, what key does what as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you change modes. So say perhaps if you hold the command key, you could see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some text describing what each of those keys does. And you hold command option and the text changes to show what each

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of these hot keys do, or maybe emoji come up on the physical keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In and of itself, I don’t think that’s an unreasonable idea, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it seemed odd to me that it sounded like Apple was going to a Foxconn subsidiary or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something like that in order to get this. It seemed to me more like Apple would just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buy this company or something along those lines if they really were interested in doing this sort

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of thing. And it was also an odd time for this rumor to leak, like you said. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t put a whole lot of credence into this, even though the idea in and of itself I think sounds kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of cool. I think anytime you see a story like this where a particular company is mentioned, especially if it’s a startup, like this one was

⏹️ ▶️ John like an Australian startup, Apple is teaming up with them to blah blah blah, like it’s easy to

⏹️ ▶️ John read these stories as intentional leak fabrication PR

⏹️ ▶️ John by someone who is interested in seeing this startup’s prospects being boosted.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, guess what? Apple is secretly working with this startup on the next generation of bulb. Like, who knows what the

⏹️ ▶️ John actual deal is, but it’s like, I don’t want to see an individual company’s name in my rumors because then I start thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John this entire story is a plant to boost the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey IPO

⏹️ ▶️ John or stock price or whatever of this company. Right. And so that makes me suspicious

⏹️ ▶️ John of this and timing as well. Like, if you’re not saying this is going to be announced on the

⏹️ ▶️ John 27th. Like save it until after. It’s like even if you had this story and you were like 9 to

⏹️ ▶️ John 5 Mac or something, you would save it until after because everyone right now should be talking about the increasingly

⏹️ ▶️ John accurate rumors about what’s going to be announced on the 27th, not oh guess what, you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ John next Apple act up after the ones that haven’t been announced yet, they’re going to have a totally reconfigurable screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I think this is a not a great story. don’t expect to see

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey reconfigurable

⏹️ ▶️ John eink keycaps on the 27th and I’m not entirely convinced

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s a great idea even I just think about emoji It’s like eink is cruddy. Eink is slow

⏹️ ▶️ John needs to be refreshed You can’t use it like the keycaps control panel on the old Macs where you

⏹️ ▶️ John hold down the shift key and all the key caps and the keyboard change to capitals It’s just too slow and clunky for that.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have to constantly be clearing out the the cruddy little pixels or little

⏹️ ▶️ John balls that haven’t turned over and it’s just it’s just not particularly Apple like we talked about it for the little strip on top

⏹️ ▶️ John and the idea would be that it doesn’t change that frequently and that it can be reconfigurable and super low power but

⏹️ ▶️ John all the rumors have been pointing towards that being a color screen and when you mentioned emoji who wants to

⏹️ ▶️ John see black and white emoji keycaps you want to see a little yellow smiley face that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey true actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t even think about that but that’s a really good point

⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m not putting much in this although I do kind of like the idea of an infinitely Maybe we

⏹️ ▶️ John can figure out a keyboard, but I still feel like that’s gonna come by Apple finally getting the guts, the courage, to get rid of all the

⏹️ ▶️ John moving keys and just make a giant OLED thing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco down

⏹️ ▶️ John there. Oh, please don’t even suggest that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco God. You’ll live

⏹️ ▶️ John to see it. Just wait.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, great, the first keyboard I can’t use at all. That’ll be wonderful.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, Microsoft has discontinued your keyboard too, so I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you’re gonna be using. Well, at their Surface event, that’s like two days before this, they’re gonna announce a new ergonomic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bluetooth keyboard that’s gonna be Surface-branded. I’m just hoping it’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Surface-branded?

⏹️ ▶️ John What about it as Surface? Is it going to have screens on it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, they’re making basically like their own iMac and they’re calling it Surface something or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other. It’s going to be in the Surface family just by branding. And they’re making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole new line of Surface branded keyboards and I think maybe mice also.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one of them is an ergonomic Bluetooth keyboard that is apparently going to replace my beloved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sculpt ergonomic keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yours is wired though, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it’s wireless, but it has its own little custom dongle that kind of sucks. It’s not nearly as good as the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Logitech ones.

⏹️ ▶️ John A surface branded iMac. Will you be able to touch the screen? I’m not quite sure how far they can stretch the surface thing. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John what is the surface that you’re talking about? Because it is not a tablet and it’s not a touch screen. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, if it’s thin enough, like the iMac, if you touch that a lot, I’ll just knock you knock it over. Like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John terrible idea. I was

⏹️ ▶️ John like, will it be actually a touch screen,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know, because they can make

⏹️ ▶️ John a touch screen because they went there. Their OS supports that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s probably just like branding. It’s probably gonna be a regular computer. Anyway, I hope they release that soon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I want to buy its keyboard and hopefully you can buy the keyboard separately earlier than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather than later, but we’ll see. They’re pretty good, but usually it’s probably gonna be available.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, are we done?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. Thanks to our three sponsors this week, Hover, Automatic, and Away. and we will see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, oh it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John let him Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental And you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey T. Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, accidental, tech podcast so

⏹️ ▶️ John long.

Post-show Marco Waffling: Laptops

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Alright, so we have lots of options for the post show here. We could talk about Tesla. We could talk about project Titan We could talk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about

⏹️ ▶️ John Titan is a show topic or save that for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah. Yeah, that’s your show.

⏹️ ▶️ John Especially since it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco We’re talking about the debate.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could talk about my camera stuff I actually I did want to throw in one quick thing about the camera stuff while we have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco While we’re talking about the Mac laptops I’ve mentioned in the past that I pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much always go 15-inch and and I usually don’t regret that choice and I have often regretted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’ve gone smaller. I am considering whatever the new 13-inch Air ends up being this time around,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because one thing I noticed when I started using this new Canon camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I mentioned last week, so my Sony camera that I might be replacing or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least using less, is 42 megapixels, and I shoot RAW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for lots of good reasons, and so processing 42-megapixel RAW files

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just crushes computers like it is there so bad and is so slow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a president’s files even doing simple things like just rendering a a preview

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a very sluggish operation and this is true be between both light room and apple photos it isn’t just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a light room from I’m by comparison so that’s 42 megapixels the cannon is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 30 which is still a very high resolution picture a but for whatever reason I assume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s because many image processing operations are not linear in complexity. They’re probably like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exponential or at least, you know, worse than linear because they have to operate on like pixels that are around other pixels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything. So for whatever reason, processing of a 30 megapixel picture

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not only faster than a 42 megapixel picture, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco faster by more than you’d expect by the, you know, 33% fewer pixels. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s more than that much faster. It’s a lot faster.

⏹️ ▶️ John the Canon the drivers for the 5d are just better optimized you know what I mean like the whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ John the camera raw blah blah blah thing that knows like oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John this sensors raw data here’s how I should interpret it I can imagine that being very mature

⏹️ ▶️ John software for the 5d assuming that doesn’t change from the mark 3 to the mark 4 whatever I don’t know enough about cameras to know if that changes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I mean as far I mean well then it does have these weird dual pixel thing I don’t have that enabled it’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would imagine you know Adobe probably optimizes as much as possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Canon SLRs, especially for the big ones. Because if you think about who is using Lightroom and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what are the most popular cameras using Adobe Lightroom, I guarantee you the Canon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 5D series is gonna be pretty high on that list. And Canon in general is going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very high on that list. So yeah, you’re probably right to some degree. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do still think that many common image processing operations are worse than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco linear in time complexity as the number of pixels grows.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, so because of that, because of this being like way, way faster to process images,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually might be able to step down reasonably to the 13 inch. So I actually might try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this cycle. I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know. But what about Xcode? That was the whole reason like, oh, when I’m on vacation, I need to do some work stuff. I hate not having the

⏹️ ▶️ John tiny screen when I try to fire up Xcode and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. It’s mostly that I like, basically I hardly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever actually do that with my laptop. And I also, I thought for a while,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought that I could bring only my new 9.7 inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad Pro on trips where I was not going to be able to get any work done. And figuring that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, worst case scenario, let’s say I have some major server problems and I need to do a whole bunch of like logging

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into servers, changing stuff, resetting stuff, or setting up new servers, whatever it is. I need terminals for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And on the iPad, there is a wonderful app I panicked called Prompt, which is a pretty good terminal app. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought for a while, like, oh, this would be wonderful. I can just bring this on a trip, and if the unthinkable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens, and I need to do a bunch of server work, I really, I can just use Prompt, and I can log into my servers there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with my little external smart keyboard from the iPad. It’ll be fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This week, I actually tried to do that, because this past week, I did, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to upgrade all of my SSH keys from the old DSA format to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less old RSA format and you know increase everything because basically Sierra does not allow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you to log in without modification does not allow you to log in with DSA keys and yes there’s some various things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could try there’s like configuration options you can you can do to fix that but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco couldn’t find any of them at the moment so I thought alright let me just I go to my iPad because I know I know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prompt can still log in with these old keys and it already had my key on it so I thought great. This will be perfect. I’ll use prompts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll log into my old servers and I’ll add my new keys to it and it was great. I got to do wonderful things like use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new shared clipboard feature so I could like copy my keys on my Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then paste them into prompt and you know into a server window and add it to the authorized keys file. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wonderful things there. It was it was wonderful. However, I learned during that process that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the iPad and and that keyboard and and not like not a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco real not like a full-blown terminal but just like this kind of iOS-ified terminal app, even though as terminal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps go for iOS, Prompt is great, but it is nothing compared to having a whole bunch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of terminals and a real keyboard on my Mac. Like, it’s not even close. And I decided then and there, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I actually ever needed to do major server work on this, this would not be a fun experience.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would really regret it, and I would wish for a Mac. And on Trips, too,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there was a great discussion on Upgrade this week, where Jason Snell and Mike Curley we were talking about this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and kind of discussing like what they bring on trips because both of them are very heavy iPad users

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now and and and they both mostly just use Macs now for things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like media production tasks like podcast and video editing that that are just still done better on the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though they both attempt to do it on iPads more more Jason and one thing Jason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said which I thought was very apt about trying to use the iPad for you know quote productivity or making it your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only traveling device one of the things is like with the iPad, you often just hit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a wall. It’s like something that it just can’t do. And sometimes you can download an app or use a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco workflow or use some kind of big workaround, but sometimes you just can’t. Sometimes the answer is you just can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do that really on an iPad or whatever. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the idea of me ever bringing an iPad only on a trip now has gotten a lot…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As I’ve used the iPad more and as I’ve tried to do more productive things on it, I have realized more and more that this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not a device for me to be productive with. Like other people can do it good for them. It’s not for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It really does not fit both the kind of work I do, the kinds of needs I sometimes have when I’m traveling,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just the way I like to work. It is not for me. So I really want something small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I can travel with. And the MacBook One, obviously, is the way to go for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco optimizing for that, but that’s just like too far in the other direction. And that would make me miserable every time I had to use it because I really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hate the keyboard. doesn’t have enough power for me, etc. The MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is great but huge and so I do kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to bring it places less because of how big it is. So that’s why I’m kind of thinking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe I’ll try the 13-inch this year because I don’t often need Xcode

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the go. For the few times I do, I could, you know, I’d be just fine on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a MacBook Air. I’ve done it before. That’s how I wrote half of instapaper. So like I’ve done it before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know I can do it. Lots of people do it every day. It’s not like it’s unheard of as long as it’s retina, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not going to do iOS on non-retina, damn it! But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that’s why I’m kind of thinking about that this time and you know ask me again in six months when I say, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco god, I should have gotten the 15, but we’ll see and we don’t know anything about these yet. So the 15 could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be so compelling I might just get it anyway or or or or the 13 inch might might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the star of the show or the 13 inch could be really you know I could be wrong the the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco retina air might not exist and then you know the 13 inch MacBook Pro is an option

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s you know that’s so close to the 15 in size and weight that I kind of might as well go 15 at that point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I don’t know we’ll see what happens but I just I figured it was an interesting waffle you know Marcos waffling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco segment here interesting that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I was considering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that for the unexpected reason that processing the files from this new camera is so ridiculously much faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I’m processing from the previous one.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you get a keyboard for your iPad. Not that it’ll make the terminal as good as it is on the Mac, but a lot of my frustration

⏹️ ▶️ John is like, well, so the keyboard takes up half your screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, no, no. I have the Apple Smart Keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, and even then you thought it wasn’t, what was an inferior experience other than the fact that you can’t have multiple windows

⏹️ ▶️ John and like moving around and everything?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, part of it is that the Apple Smart Keyboard isn’t a very good keyboard. And so there’s things like there’s no escape key,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which when you’re using Vim is kind of annoying. When doing a lot of terminal work, it’s kind of annoying actually.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there’s one right on screen that I just had to keep hitting, but it’s just, it’s annoying.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s no escape key on the big, if you have the 12 inch iPad Pro, also no escape key on the keyboard?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know about that one, but on the 9.7 smart keyboard, there is no escape key. And so that’s, that’s annoying.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a couple other like missing, missing keys that are kind of annoying to have. Also, one thing I found, I don’t know if this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a problem with prompt or the keyboard but I I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very often get keystrokes that that would arrive in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco terminal in the wrong order that I type them which is infuriating like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was very very difficult I assume that maybe prompt isn’t handling latency correctly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that case or something or there’s some problem between the keyboard and the iPad and prompt and the terminal like somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the line keystrokes were actually getting jumbled if you type anything too quickly and that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sucks that’s something like that is not acceptable at all for terminal work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so and also just you know the complexity of of iPad multitasking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know not being you know being a lot more primitive than the way you can get in a Mac if you want like multiple windows open and stuff like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it’s just like it’s the kind of thing like in an emergency you could do simple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things on it but I really would not want to and and I would much rather take out a Mac and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do it right and do it there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What else is going

⏹️ ▶️ John on? Is anyone thinking of buying anything after the Apple event? Like Marco, I guess you’re in the market for a

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop it sounds like, but anyone else?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually, I do want AirPods. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh yeah, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if I’m going to end up being able to wear them comfort wise, but I really do want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco try them for their most likely incredible convenience. You know, to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to have, as I mentioned before, to be able to have headphones that I can literally put in this like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large tic-tac-shaped box in my pocket and carry them somewhere without having anything in larger pockets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or around my neck or in a bag, like that is incredibly compelling for me. So if I can do that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all, I want them. And comfort-wise, I have low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expectations. I hope I can wear them at all. I don’t expect them to be great. I just hope I can wear them at all. I do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expect them to be very annoying in the lack of controls on them, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m hoping maybe that I can overcome that or just tolerate it when I’m using them or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco start using the Apple Watch when I’m out walking my dog or something like that. Steven

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Luker, Ph.D.: Yeah, I’m not going to buy AirPods immediately after the event, but I think they’re going on my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey holiday list because I’d really like to try a pair. And I think they’ll come in handy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from time to time, even if I don’t use them regularly. But I don’t plan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on buying any new hardware outside of potentially AirPods eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey based on the event. What about you, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John John Greenewald So my current plan is about six months from now after

⏹️ ▶️ John work has gone through all of their current inventory of MacBook Pros that they hand out to people,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to finally replace my Mac at work and replace it with one of the new MacBook Pros, which I hope I

⏹️ ▶️ John will be guaranteed to get at that point.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have the same Mac that I got the day I started at my job seven

⏹️ ▶️ John or so years ago. It’s a 2009 Mac Pro. It has never been upgraded. Our current upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ John cycle at work, I forget what it is, but I think it’s really short. It’s like 18 months or something you can get a new computer, or maybe it’s two years. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John remember. Anyway, I’m kind of overdue.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s seven

⏹️ ▶️ John or eight

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey years

⏹️ ▶️ John with my computer. So they’re not going to get me an iMac. Everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John gets laptops. I don’t think think that’s even a choice and I don’t think I can swing it by convincing them that

⏹️ ▶️ John I need to I wouldn’t want a Mac Pro obviously at this point and I don’t think I can convince them about a 5G iMac

⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m gonna end up getting a laptop and the best laptop I can get is a 15 inch Pro but I do not want one of the

⏹️ ▶️ John current 15 inch Pros for obvious reasons I want the new one so when the new ones are announced the clock starts ticking

⏹️ ▶️ John on to when is it safe for me at work to ask for a new computer and to be able to get

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the new 15 inches because I don’t want to ask for 15 inch and they asked to give me an old one because it’s just a whole big

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. So there is a timer that will start on the 27th, most likely, but no immediate

⏹️ ▶️ John action. Oh, and I will probably, I’ll look at the AirPods. Like I’m still planning to upgrade my iPhone, still haven’t been

⏹️ ▶️ John to the Apple store to pick out a color, but eventually that will happen, and I’m almost certain

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m gonna get the AirPods just to try them. AirPods, whatever the hell they’re called. Stop

⏹️ ▶️ John making rhyming product names, Apple. Yeah, I’m gonna, I’m almost guaranteed to get them, because I

⏹️ ▶️ John like the current EarPod things, and I wanted a wireless thing, So that’s probably going to happen.