Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

186: Jony Ive Has a Lot of White Pants

Our coverage of the iPhone 7 and Apple Watch Series 2 launch event.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Intro Karaoke
  2. Apple Music
  3. iWork
  4. Mario Run
  5. Sponsor: Hover (code JETBLACK)
  6. Apple Watch Series 2
  7. Sponsor: TrackR (code ATP)
  8. Presenter diversity
  9. iPhone 7: Design
  10. Sponsor: Betterment
  11. iPhone 7: Water resistance
  12. iPhone 7: Cameras
  13. Reverse Sponsor: Childhood Cancer Awareness Month
  14. iPhone 7: False Tone
  15. iPhone 7: Speakers
  16. iPhone 7: Headphones
  17. iPhone 7: Processors
  18. Ending theme
  19. Post-show: Downgrading storage

Intro Karaoke

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do you think this is the biggest show of the year, or do you think the WBDC one is the biggest show of the year?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think WBDC. I wouldn’t say it’s by a large margin, but I think it’s the Dub Dub episode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which, P.S., I’ve noticed myself just in the last six to 12 months embracing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Dub Dub, which I always used to hate so much, like the phrasing, D-U-B,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey D-U-B. I always used to hate it so much, but yeah, I’ve been broken.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they totally wore me down. I too, I’m not usually a trendy word shortener,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that one, it’s just so clumsy to say WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that that one just wore me down. COREY

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Although, curiously, www, as in,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can’t do it. It drives me insane. I’m like hunching up as I’m saying it because it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just drives me so crazy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MARK No, that is too far. That one I was willing to just wait until we drop that prefix for most domain names.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re going to talk about the September 2016 Apple event. We are going to try to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do this in chronological order. We will probably miss a little bit, but here we go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We started out with Tim Cook and James Corden doing carpool karaoke,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which as soon as I saw this, I thought, Oh God. Oh no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is not going to be good. Pleasantly surprised. I thought it was great. I thought Tim did a great job.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little awkward, but I’d have been 10 times more awkward if I were there. Could sing enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, he sang more than Britney Spears did, so that’s a thing. I thought it was really well done and a really good intro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought it was the best interaction Tim has ever shown with a celebrity as part of an event.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s not a very high bar, but yes, I agree.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why were you afraid? Why did you think this was going to be cringeworthy?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just because, like Tim and Bono, for example. It’s just not usually good,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it was great.

⏹️ ▶️ John But that’s not the same context. That’s the context of him on stage having to like stand

⏹️ ▶️ John out next to like his, you know, tame racing driver, tame celebrity.

⏹️ ▶️ John Look at what I have brought you.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It is a

⏹️ ▶️ John Bono and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I have brought you him. And now I

⏹️ ▶️ John stand next to him. Like the context is weird where you have to just be like, is this great guys? Huh? Huh? Look,

⏹️ ▶️ John celebrity. seen the carpool karaoke I’m assuming and that is a much

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey more

⏹️ ▶️ John relaxed environment yep never not once I mean technically

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I guess now I have seen it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John right but

⏹️ ▶️ John when this came on you didn’t when you saw the back of that SUV you didn’t immediately know what it was when you saw that guy sitting

⏹️ ▶️ John behind the wheel nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I asked if who the guy was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and then when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the second guy got in the car I had to ask who he was too I feel like we need to have some kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John pop culture

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco intervention.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I’m not I am not one to really be throwing stones in the glass house in which I live. But holy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey God, Marco, you need

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John to like, I don’t mean

⏹️ ▶️ John you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey have to have

⏹️ ▶️ John seen it. I mean, you know what that guy’s name is just to know that this is a thing and like, Oh, I recognize it. It’s that

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that I never watched, but not even that anyway. That

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco environment

⏹️ ▶️ John is much more relaxed. And I knew he would do fine. I should rewatch it because some people are trying to find

⏹️ ▶️ John issue with him. But I was surprised that he would agree to it because the people who usually are on that are people who

⏹️ ▶️ John want to sort of unabashedly sing in a car,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like in front of everybody. It’s like, you know, dance like nobody’s watching what carpool karaoke is, sing like you’re in your own

⏹️ ▶️ John car and no one can see you, but everybody can see you because you’re on the internet. I’m assuming Tim Cook must be a fan

⏹️ ▶️ John of that and said, you know what, I’d like to do that. Because if someone who didn’t want to sing in front of the world was

⏹️ ▶️ John forced to do it, they would look way worse. They would, I mean, I know I would never want to do this.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I can’t imagine faking it to the degree that he did. So I think he really wanted to be on this thing because he likes to sing

⏹️ ▶️ John and he got to sing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so I thought the intro was great. I also really liked, when was it that they did the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Bill Hader introduction when he was directing the big show intro? Do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know what I’m thinking of? Was that dub dub?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but this was better because this was sort of of the moment in a way that didn’t look like they

⏹️ ▶️ John were trying to cash in because I think it was just at the right point for carpool karaoke where it’s not at the peak, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not at the beginning. It’s like, but it’s not all that. And I really he looked like he had genuine

⏹️ ▶️ John enthusiasm for being on this thing that he had seen other people on. And it was like, relax. I know what you’re talking about. The bill hater

⏹️ ▶️ John thing was funny, but that was like more higher budget,

⏹️ ▶️ John more complicated. Like this. I feel like it was just simple. It’s like a person

⏹️ ▶️ John in a car. It’s funny to see Tim Cook in that context. It was short. I like it one of the one of the best intros

⏹️ ▶️ John to an apple event ever although it’s kind of a shame that it was totally unrelated to anything that was presented really

⏹️ ▶️ John but that’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the joke that james corden made about how he had heard that the new iphone or perhaps it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the new version of ios was the most secure ever and tim do you know where i read that on a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey leak

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John posted to the internet that was my least favorite

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey part because

⏹️ ▶️ John it shows that the host doesn’t understand the nuance of what he’s talking about because

⏹️ ▶️ John is this going to be the most secure iphone we know know what he means when he says that I’m assuming that’s a plant from like Apple or something like that

⏹️ ▶️ John to say, hey, ask us about the security because it’s going to be I’m assuming more secure than the past ones

⏹️ ▶️ John learning from everything they’ve learned from all the previous iPhones and all the different FBI court orders and everything right.

⏹️ ▶️ John But that has nothing to do with whether rumors of how the phone is being designed leak onto the internet

⏹️ ▶️ John that has nothing to do with the security of the phone. They’re totally unrelated, except for the fact that the word security can be applied to both

⏹️ ▶️ John of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why you got to be such a I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just saying like it’s a typical sort of you want to make you want to make a tech joke But you’re not a tech person.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you think you you think you really nailed it Ha ha isn’t that funny? And I feel like Tim Cook was like do you see the irony

⏹️ ▶️ John in that Tim Cook should have been like yes I see the irony in that actually I don’t because doesn’t make any sense But I will humor

⏹️ ▶️ John you because I know if I have to explain it to you that won’t work But I’m explaining to you because Tim Cook wouldn’t that joke

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t make any sense and therefore was less funny than it should have been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you need to turn your brain off and turn on the emotion ship from time to time? I thought it was funny.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing to do with the motion ship good humor. It makes sense. The best humor makes sense And it’s funny. That’s why it’s funny

⏹️ ▶️ John because it makes sense. I love this show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do too, but I’m gonna kill one or both of you by the end of it. Anything else about Tim and James?

Apple Music

⏹️ ▶️ John They had a big opening thing about Apple music too. Oh, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I guess you’re right.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It was just

⏹️ ▶️ John like hey Apple music exists It’s good. You guys should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco try it. Here’s your semi-annual reminders to please subscribe to Apple music. Here’s how awesome it is

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, 17 million subscribers or something. I’m watching the thing run in the background now I’m assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll comment on it almost in real time. But They’re pushing it

⏹️ ▶️ John like this is what they usually do at the beginning of the things They have some feel good stuff, some funny stuff and some, Hey,

⏹️ ▶️ John let me remind you about whatever it is that I’m pushing that we think we’ve done recently. That’s good or doing well

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. So Apple Music is getting the push here. Um, how do you guys feel about music right now?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I haven’t used it since the demo period ran out. Um, at that time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought it was okay, but I’m a pretty loyal Spotify user

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the only thing that Apple Music brought to me that as a Spotify user that I didn’t already have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was being able to play things via Siri, which I did really, really like.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Other than that, I haven’t really looked back since, to be honest with you. Steven

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I’ve been a subscriber the whole time. In fact, we even have the family plan. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s kind of like when I get a Netflix disc back in the day, and back when that was a thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you let the disc sit there for like three months and start realizing how much you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John effectively paid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for that disc. That’s kind of of how I am about Apple Music. We have the membership and I do occasionally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco play something on it, but if I actually work out how much I’ve paid for each one of those tracks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’ve played off of it, I probably shouldn’t be using it. I think I’ve determined that I’m just not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really a streaming music customer because most of what I listen to is either podcast or Phish, neither of which are on there.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I kind of split the difference between you guys. I subscribed during the trial period. I thought

⏹️ ▶️ John I would have no interest in it whatsoever. I was surprised that I actually discovered new music with it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not that their, you know, for you and suggestions things are all that great, but that was the point where I’m, Hey, I’m trying

⏹️ ▶️ John a free trial. I’m going to, you know, put some time into going through it. And I did find some music that I like. What

⏹️ ▶️ John I did when I found that music is that I bought it because I didn’t know I was going to continue the album music

⏹️ ▶️ John trial. So I just purchased all the songs that I found that I liked, which is nice. And then I let the thing lapse

⏹️ ▶️ John because I’m like, doesn’t, I don’t use it. I’m kind of like Marco. I’m not a streaming music kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of person and it was fairly expensive or something that I was just gonna let run in the background So I didn’t now I find

⏹️ ▶️ John myself kind of missing The fact that I don’t have access to all the music that Apple music makes available and sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, you know I like to hear some new music and I can’t because I don’t have Apple music But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m probably just not a stream music subscriber my experience out in the world with people who are

⏹️ ▶️ John Streaming music subscribers is I still see Spotify having a pretty good hold on things

⏹️ ▶️ John So I don’t think Apple Music has bumped them out, but Apple Music seems like the kind of like Apple Maps

⏹️ ▶️ John where even if it’s not better than Google Maps Just by being the default and being constantly promoted in this way

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they’re going to start to erode some of the the competitors just for the sheer force of

⏹️ ▶️ John constant promotion and defaultedness and Siri integration from the

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple essentially.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey Next thing I believe was iWork, which they said they were doing some updates, but most importantly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and interestingly, selfishly anyway, was real-time collaborative editing, which I believe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they said was going to be both native and web-based. Is that true?

⏹️ ▶️ John Actually, that came after Nintendo, but I’ll let it slide.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yes, they did

⏹️ ▶️ John say there was a web, they said you can do this on your Mac, on your iOS devices, and even on the web.

⏹️ ▶️ John They didn’t show any of those things, but yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is the web the same thing they launched two years ago, or is it like a new version based on whatever’s underpinning this stuff. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s hard like what they were demoing in some ways is a total Apple move where it’s like Google

⏹️ ▶️ John that you know Google the most well-known thing where a bunch of people can edit a document

⏹️ ▶️ John at the same time. That’s just a bunch of colored cursors in text but we’re going to do a presentation with graphics

⏹️ ▶️ John and look how beautiful the present you know it’s it’s more complicated it’s more visually complicated to have multiple people doing graphics

⏹️ ▶️ John at the same time without having them like flash and clip over each other everything’s beautifully composited and multiple people are

⏹️ ▶️ John collaborating on this graphic document or whatever so that is more impressive than just

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of cursors moving around a text field but almost everything about iWork

⏹️ ▶️ John has always been has looked nicer visually whether it’s on the Mac or even on the web it looks

⏹️ ▶️ John really nice but in the end what people care about is does it always work

⏹️ ▶️ John is the performance good like simple and reliable is

⏹️ ▶️ John better than super fancy and not so reliable and thus far all of Apple’s sort of collaborative

⏹️ ▶️ John editing. I work on the web on all platforms all the same time document syncing

⏹️ ▶️ John crap has been nice to look at but ranging from clunky

⏹️ ▶️ John to downright broken, downright broken being me fruitlessly trying to get my

⏹️ ▶️ John daughter to edit the same document using entirely Apple native apps on all Apple’s latest operating system and

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re getting repeatedly locked out from that ability to even save on any platform. That’s the worst case.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what to say about this because I haven’t tried it yet, but I can tell you that my confidence is not high that this is going to

⏹️ ▶️ John take the world by storm.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, that’s a pretty good summary. Like, it remains to be seen, basically. Nobody has really had time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to use this yet. The credibility level here is low. The expectations are low because of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the mediocre and poor past performances in this department. So, we’ll see what happens.

Mario Run

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So maybe we got the order wrong as John alluded to but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hell has frozen over ish and Nintendo and Apple are sitting in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a tree Kissing pretty much the entire internet had the same reaction I did which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was holy crap is John Syracuse is still breathing

⏹️ ▶️ John I did have it on I did have it on in the background But I don’t see how this is such a big deal for both people because

⏹️ ▶️ John like Pokemon go I know it wasn’t intended of developing it It was Niantic or whatever, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Nintendo’s property and like that was the the beachhead

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, it’s incredibly popular game based on Nintendo IP on your phone

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the same as Mario coming to your phone, but The sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of the big event was hey Nintendo has finally I mean We knew this from months and months and months ago where they announced

⏹️ ▶️ John we were going to make games for mobile phones Right and the announcement was not we’re going to stop making

⏹️ ▶️ John games for our own platforms. In fact, we’re going to continue making platforms We’re gonna make a new platform. We won’t tell you

⏹️ ▶️ John anything about but it’s a code name NX and blah blah blah Like they’re still doing that but they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John also Doing stuff for phones and we knew that for a long time and Pokemon go

⏹️ ▶️ John shows They’re doing stuff for phones and they’re successful at it. And this is just a continuation of that strategy. Now, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the impressive thing is that Nintendo Saw fit to or I don’t know. I don’t know who’s

⏹️ ▶️ John pulling it Who’s pushing here is Nintendo? Coming to Apple and saying we’d like to do this and let’s work out a

⏹️ ▶️ John deal because it’s good publicity for Nintendo to be In this presentation right to review and it’s good for

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple to say which phone platform is Mario on first And I assume exclusively for some

⏹️ ▶️ John period of time Anyway, our platform like so I would imagine that it was Apple coming to Nintendo But

⏹️ ▶️ John Nintendo was probably receptive to the idea that we’re already entering this phone thing Pokemon go is a big hit

⏹️ ▶️ John that we sort of outsource to have some of the developer do if we’re gonna bring our crown jewels We want

⏹️ ▶️ John to have you know Have the best possible experience come with the the highest end

⏹️ ▶️ John phone vendor the most successful phone vendor the one with the best reputation and honestly

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a better fit between Apple and Nintendo in terms of their

⏹️ ▶️ John Philosophy and sort of like kid friendliness and how Apple patrols the App

⏹️ ▶️ John Store and tries to keep it, you know nice and it like that’s reminds me a lot of Nintendo seal of quality

⏹️ ▶️ John right so that I think there’s a good meeting of the minds between these two companies here but then to have Miyamoto come

⏹️ ▶️ John out as if it’s like an e3 presentation Nintendo doesn’t even do e3 presentations anymore because they always do this Nintendo Direct stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John to come out on stage himself that’s that’s a pretty big deal now I feel bad

⏹️ ▶️ John because he didn’t do particularly well he always insists on saying something English before pulling in the translator this is not a new thing he does

⏹️ ▶️ John this very frequently but he seemed nervous or badly rehearsed or both

⏹️ ▶️ John and he kind of stumbled through his presentation but in the end I don’t I don’t think it’s that

⏹️ ▶️ John a big deal it’s not it’s not a shock we’re not shocked that this happened it’s just a straight line from everything

⏹️ ▶️ John that has come before the games that they showed are not

⏹️ ▶️ John particularly revolutionary it’s a runner game with Mario and some other things that are already known to be well-suited

⏹️ ▶️ John if anything Pokemon go was a more more interesting and daring

⏹️ ▶️ John game than what then the stuff they showed today because I mean not that you know

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s what was that game before Pokemon go from the company that made it that was the same idea

⏹️ ▶️ John and then brought to a important property but it is barbarous to say we’re gonna take this very

⏹️ ▶️ John important property Pokemon and try it on a gameplay style that is very phone dependent

⏹️ ▶️ John that was not wildly successful ingress is what I called it was not wildly successful

⏹️ ▶️ John on this previous game but maybe the combination will be good and it was and these Mario games are even more conservative

⏹️ ▶️ John than that you know tried and true gameplay styles with the crown jewels

⏹️ ▶️ John intellectual property from Nintendo I’m sure they’ll do well I’m not sure they’ll do

⏹️ ▶️ John as well as Pokemon go because that was kind of like a craze and as we

⏹️ ▶️ John talked about before a great time for it because the summer and people are outdoors and it became a big news story

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. But otherwise, I’m happy to see Nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ John continuing to plot along in its strategy. I’m happy to see, perhaps I’m assuming they’re developing things in-house. Perhaps they

⏹️ ▶️ John could get more of the money from this that will help them fund

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the whole rest

⏹️ ▶️ John of their company and make sure the NX isn’t a piece of crap, even if it uses cartridges.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s it. I’m shocked.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, what do you guys think about it? Like, are you looking forward to buying this game or do you just not care?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I’ll probably buy it. Um, they, they had made some sort of reference to,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget how they phrased it, but you’ll have to pay for it. And then they kind of implied that there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wouldn’t really be any IAP in our purchases. I forget exactly what was said, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then I thought underscore had noticed that actually there will be.

⏹️ ▶️ John I imagine there has to be. And by the way, last time we talked about Pokemon go, I said that my family was playing it, but I wasn’t. And

⏹️ ▶️ John so far they were all playing it for free. That has passed. my wife has spent god knows how much money on this game that like

⏹️ ▶️ John they whatever monetization strategy they have or whatever scarce resource is required Either her

⏹️ ▶️ John play style or the game itself leads to you eventually running out of some resource that you want and you don’t want to Wait

⏹️ ▶️ John or get it by grinding so just buys it I think she spent like 40 bucks in this game probably more. I try

⏹️ ▶️ John not to even look anymore So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean in all fairness like if you had three people in your house playing a playing a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco single Nintendo game How much would you spend if it was any other Nintendo product?

⏹️ ▶️ John You’d spend 60 bucks and play it for like hundreds of hours like a Zelda game. Like that’s the old…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but then you’d also have like, you know, the in your hand you’d be burning through like this $50 controller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the $40 nunchuck and all this other garbage you have to plug into it. I mean, Nintendo doesn’t sell much for less than 40 bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but you buy that stuff already. Like the whole idea with the old console thing was you buy the console

⏹️ ▶️ John for 500 bucks with all the accessories all the accessories, then you buy a series of $60 games. Each one gives you what you hope is $60

⏹️ ▶️ John worth of enjoyment. Some games last longer, some games are shorter, but it’s like you pay 60 bucks and you get the

⏹️ ▶️ John whole thing. Um, I play destiny, which is like 60 bucks plus 20

⏹️ ▶️ John or 30 bucks a year for the expansions plus the monthly fee for a playstation network,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that that still works out money wise. Now, Pokemon go. The problem is it’s basically limitless like you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John spend. There’s a limit to how much you can spend on destiny per year minus the silver stuff but even that I

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like even if you’ve got a limit of money to spend there’s not that much to buy in the game and everything you can buy in the game is cosmetic

⏹️ ▶️ John and so if you buy every single expansion and you pay for PSN and you buy your PlayStation there’s a limit

⏹️ ▶️ John whereas the Pokemon Go you could spend your entire life savings buying pokeballs and using them like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just it seems like it’s an unlimited potential pit of money and so I don’t know those games bother

⏹️ ▶️ John me a little bit more because in order to continue to have fun with with the game you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to spend money and you don’t get new content for the money you just get the ability to continue playing the content

⏹️ ▶️ John you have. Hoping the Mario games aren’t like that but that’s that’s a winning monetization strategy

⏹️ ▶️ John that people seem comfortable with which is if you want to grind, grind. If you don’t want to grind, pass money and we’ll shortcut that for you.

⏹️ ▶️ John Pokemon Go doesn’t seem abusive in that way and I’m assuming the Mario games won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John be either but I certainly prefer the the other propositions even the proposition of destiny

⏹️ ▶️ John which I think is striking a reasonable balance of you know, extracting money from me steadily over

⏹️ ▶️ John the course of years, but also giving me hundreds and hundreds of hours entertainment.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So a couple other quick thoughts on Nintendo. First of all, Super Mario Go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey already has an entry that you can search for and find in the app store. I’m sorry,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Super Mario Run. I just called it Super Mario Go. It has a entry, a page, if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you will, on the app store where, where you would typically see buy or get.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It says notify, which I’ve never seen for an app before, which I thought was kind of neat. This is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the first. So that’s different. And it would be super cool if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey developers could leverage that, like not blessed developers, but regular schmoes like us

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could use this to leverage the app store to kind of generate a little bit of buzz about forthcoming apps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you so chose. But still, that’s kind of neat. And any thoughts on that before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I get to my other thought?

⏹️ ▶️ John So the iBook store, I used this for when I was selling my iBooks, has a pre-order system where you can put the book up

⏹️ ▶️ John and people can’t buy it, but they can pre-order, which is even better. Instead of just notifying people when it’s available, they can give you the money right up front. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I made a lot on the pre-orders because the people who were anxiously awaiting the book, most of them pre-ordered. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess that type of thing should come to the iOS store.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And then the other interesting thing, which I think is worth briefly mentioning, is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They specifically said on stage that there will be a sticker pack for iMessage that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is themed around Super Mario Run, which is what I think they’ve been pushing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey relatively heavily since iOS 10 was announced at WWDC. So I’m curious to see if anything comes of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, but I thought that tie-in was kind of neat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, sticker packs are the new ringtones. It’s an opportunity for lots of tie-in to the big companies and big promotions.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wonder if there will be more strict policing of copyright infringement. I know

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple in the past, specifically with Nintendo, has actually been pretty good about

⏹️ ▶️ John tracking down, at the very least, NES emulators and Mario things. They still snuck through. But now that

⏹️ ▶️ John Nintendo itself is in the store, is Nintendo more motivated to have its team

⏹️ ▶️ John of lawyers wandering the store and stomping on anything that uses Mario in the name, uses its

⏹️ ▶️ John artwork, the million people trying to sell sticker packs that have pictures of Goombas

⏹️ ▶️ John and mushrooms and all the other stuff. Like, you’re one Google search

⏹️ ▶️ John away from trying to sell a 99 cent sticker pack full of someone else’s IP. And now that

⏹️ ▶️ John Nintendo is actually trying to sell its own version of that stuff, I imagine it will be harder to

⏹️ ▶️ John sneak that stuff through. If not, that’s gonna be weird when you do a search for Nintendo sticker

⏹️ ▶️ John pack, you find a million sticker packs and buried somewhere in there because Apple Search is awful as the real Nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ John one. That will be super weird, we’ll see. Oh, and a real time follow up from the chat room, people are saying that I

⏹️ ▶️ John think they’re talking about Mario run paid up front no in-app purchase that’s what I’m reading in the chat

⏹️ ▶️ John room who knows if it’s true that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not what it says on the iTunes store page

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco well it says here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco user RT 98 underscore says basically that the the there’s gonna be like a trial level

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first for free and then you pay one fixed in-app purchase price to unlock the rest of the game

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right so it’s not like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John buying more energy or coins or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever to be able to play.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So next thing in the presentation was the Apple Watch. And we can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey start with the name, I suppose. It is now called the Apple Watch Series 2. I think you mean Season 2. Let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see what you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John did there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I dig it though. I really do like this name. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what alternatives were kicked around. I’m not sure what I would have recommended, but I really like the idea of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Series 2. I don’t know why I prefer it over just Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Watch 2, but I think I do prefer it, maybe because it’s more about fashion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than the iPhone arguably is, but two thumbs up for the name in my opinion. What do you guys think about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the name alone?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I think it’s great. I mean, the first Apple Watch, which now has no name, because it’s not the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Series 1, that’s different which we’ll get to. The first Apple Watch, Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Series 0, that had a kind of an odd naming structure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where like you had the Apple Watch Sport which is the one that everybody actually bought, you had just the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with no modifiers which is the steel one which is like the middle one, and you had the Apple Watch Edition which nobody bought.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so you have, it was this weird combo and nobody really knew what to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco call the steel one and everyone would call the sport one the Apple Watch, even though technically that was the name of a different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model. So now they’ve kind of unified the naming. Now it seems from their website that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the entire series two is just called Apple Watch series two. There is no more sport

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or steel distinction. From what I can find, I could be wrong, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it sure looks like they’re dropping the sport distinction, and now there’s Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can get the Apple Watch in steel, or all these wonderful aluminum colors, or the Apple Watch Edition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still has its own name, and the Apple Watch Hermes has its own name. I apologize to the great nation of France

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for how I’m pronouncing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Hermes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s probably wrong, and I apologize.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You

⏹️ ▶️ John know, the Apple Watch and Nike Plus, which is another weird, like another company’s name gets to define a single

⏹️ ▶️ John product.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so they’re basically moving into these, like, you know, these major brand affiliations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now with, like, fashion and sport brands, and, you know, whatever. I don’t know anything about that world, so that probably makes sense,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t say. But overall, naming wise, this is a very, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a decent update. The only weird thing about it though, is as mentioned earlier, so there’s a Series 2, that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s also a Series 1. Now this is almost the original Apple Watch, but with a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco major difference, and that is with the new Apple Watch, they have upgraded the CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a pretty substantial upgrade. Now it’s a dual core one, which is allegedly a lot faster, but they said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to 50%, so they’re probably clocked lower, who knows whatever it is it’s a dual-core

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model it’s a different CPU that is that is probably a lot faster in practice and they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in in what I commend as a great move for everybody owners developers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have they’re basically retroactively installing this new CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the old model as they continue to sell the old model which is now called Apple Watch Series 1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so you can get Series 1 which is just the old Apple Watch with a faster CPU which is a big difference. Then you can get series 2

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is the newest model which is that same CPU but with a higher grade of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco waterproofing with GPS and a brighter screen. Is that it?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean it’s totally different the inside like if you look at the speaker diagram the speaker is different all the insides

⏹️ ▶️ John are different. For all I know the battery is a different size it just looks the same on the outside for the most part but inside it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John basically all new. Every part of it is new. It seems the screen is new, the system on the chip thingy whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John is new, the battery’s probably new, the speaker is new, the thing between the dial, the ceiling, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it just looks the same on the outside, but… It’s actually thicker. Is it, actually?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, it’s one millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thicker. It went from like 11 points, I’m gonna go to 12 point, whatever. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that’s kind of a shame.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Which, honestly, and honestly, like, you know, for a watch, going from 11 to 12 is noticeable. That is a noticeable thickness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco increase. It’s unfortunate, it’s still not gonna be like, it’s not gonna be like chunky or anything, you know, if,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, if, whatever you thought about thickness before, you will still think that, but it is kind of unfortunate and I went

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that direction on one of the products that could have used thinning out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s nice though that they don’t sell the Apple Watch anymore. First of all, it kind

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco of

⏹️ ▶️ John makes it like Macintosh. The first Macintosh they introduced was not called the Mac 128K

⏹️ ▶️ John because why would they need a distinction? It was just Macintosh, period. The first iPhone was just iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ John period. And the first Apple Watch was just Apple Watch, even though it had all those suffixes like edition and sport and so on and so

⏹️ ▶️ John forth, but there was no number or anything. So now, that product that we all own is gone. Like you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t buy it anymore. And imagine if that happened with phones. Like imagine if, when they took the 6S and 6S

⏹️ ▶️ John Plus and moved them down, they said, and by the way, put the A10 in all of those too. That would be like amazing. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John this is, it’s kind of like the Series 1 is like the apology watch. Like we’re sorry that the first Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John Watch CPU was so darn slow. But you see it was supposed to ship way earlier, but the software wasn’t ready. So we had to hold it back

⏹️ ▶️ John for many months and yada, yada, yada. Also we didn’t have a watchOS 3 ready

⏹️ ▶️ John and we didn’t quite know what we were doing. And so just forget about that watch. second attempt at the same watch

⏹️ ▶️ John twice as fast inside watch os 3 just forget about that old one and the old one

⏹️ ▶️ John i think will have sentimental i was like it’s the first watch i honestly i don’t think it was a bad product i think

⏹️ ▶️ John it was good hardware wise the software they hadn’t figured out yet i forgive all of it series

⏹️ ▶️ John one is like the series one makes me more excited than the other ones because basically anyone making a watch os app now it doesn’t have to be

⏹️ ▶️ John like oh i have to support the the old watches like i guess they do for whoever bought those things but like

⏹️ ▶️ John the window has moved up so rapidly all of a sudden everybody who buys one even if they buy the cheap one this holiday

⏹️ ▶️ John season will be way faster and watchOS 3 will be way faster too so

⏹️ ▶️ John even though I mean this is not an entirely redesigned watch I don’t think anyone expected it to be but it’s exactly what we thought

⏹️ ▶️ John it would be bigger battery used to power GPS that can be on all the time great for workouts

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff like that better waterproofing which is hard for me to believe considering how waterproof the

⏹️ ▶️ John the other one was and keeping the old watch around but not leaving it around and being

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy, so I give a thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s nice that they didn’t just keep selling the same one without changing it, just because like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first Apple Watch is really, really slow, and it’s good now to be able to tell somebody to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go into a store and just buy an Apple Watch, you don’t have to tell them, oh, don’t get this model, that’s the old one that sucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, because you have to do that a lot of times with iPads and iPhones, but now you don’t have to do that anymore, and well, all the Macs,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You don’t have to do that anymore now with the watch, which is great because they’re just all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. I’ve noticed, I’ve taken note recently,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever I’ve been out in the world, like we mentioned I spent a week in this beach town recently,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I looked around constantly, kind of like taking inventory of watches, because now I’m a watch nerd and this is just what I do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everywhere I go. And I’ve kind of noticed roughly what percentage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I see of different smart watches. How many Apple watches do I see? How many dumb watches do I see? How many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different things that look like Android Wear versus Pebble versus the Fitbit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Garmin watches? The single model I do see the most is the Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I would not say the Apple Watch has more than 50% of the share of smart watches I see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s kind of like the iPhone in that way. If you measure phone model

⏹️ ▶️ Marco versus other individual phone models, the iPhone is usually the best selling single phone in the world or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco US or whatever, but like the market share of iPhones versus all other Android phones combined,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPhone is not more than 50%. You know, it’s usually a little bit, usually a lot less. That’s kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how I see in the watch world now, in the smartwatch world, where when I, just out and about anecdotally, I see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a ton of people wearing smartwatches. I was totally wrong. I thought this category was gonna be a little bit weird and people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were gonna be very slow to adopt it. Nope, people love smartwatches. However, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones I see the most, You know, Apple is the single model I see the most, but most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are wearing either an Android one that I have a hard time recognizing, like which one in particular, or I do see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of the Fitbit ones, either the skinny cuff band things, or the square

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one with the diagonal bezel on it. You know what I’m talking about? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I see a lot of Fitbits too, and I think that, I mean, I don’t know what the numbers are like, I don’t know how Fitbit is doing, but

⏹️ ▶️ John in my experience, like when you say smartwatches, I was wondering if you were even counting Fitbit, because people aren’t wearing

⏹️ ▶️ John that as a watch, they’re wearing it essentially as a stay fit, stay healthy, lose weight,

⏹️ ▶️ John remain active measurement thing because Fitbit, even more so than the Pebble,

⏹️ ▶️ John Fitbit has the advantage of like, it’s totally focused on fitness, it’s cheap, it’s practically disposable,

⏹️ ▶️ John battery lasts a really, really long time, and it syncs with your phone and it just does the one thing they want it to do, whereas the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ John still seems like sledgehammer to kill an ant. If you just wanna keep track of your steps, you’re gonna spend

⏹️ ▶️ John like hundreds of dollars this fancy full featured giant watch with a screen that has software

⏹️ ▶️ John or just buy a crappy little Fitbit that if you lose it you don’t care about it and you have five of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well so this is what I’m getting at though. So it certainly appears as though the market

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really you know it’s doing very well in the like basic fitness tracking and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe notifications and you know maybe some smart stuff but like it seems like these what people want most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the time from these is a fitness tracker and because of that and because all the other ones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m seeing that are kind of exploding recently, it does seem like there’s a lot of downward price pressure here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, you know, right now, like the Apple Watch Series 2, the new default Apple Watch, is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now $369 starting price. Before, that was one that was $399 before, right? So it was like a minor drop. I believe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s right. So to have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey still be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nearly $400 for the main one, when all the competition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is offering these like $150 or $200 watches that are doing what most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people actually want their smartwatch to do, it turns out. That’s going to put a lot of pressure on this market, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the holiday season this year. So to keep the Series 1 around at $100 less,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s $269. To keep that around is really smart because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have to find some way to drop the price on these by a lot. They can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just get near it the way they did with iPads because Let’s look what happened with low-end tablet market share. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple just lost it all, because it turns out you can make tablets really cheaply, and most people need a cheap tablet, but the tablet for is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco videos and basic browsing and games, and that’s fine to get the Amazon 6 pack. But like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is very important for Apple, for the watch’s future success, to get that starting price as cheap as possible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to do it like this, in a way that doesn’t just sell the old one, that actually makes it like a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good model. Because like, looking at these models, if I were buying one today, I’d probably get the Series 1 also,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I don’t care about GPS or water resistance. So I’d probably get that one, because it’s a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco smaller and $100 cheaper. It’s put that money towards a better band for it. That’s a great thing to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the lineup. So to have that be the entry price, and to have that be the entry model is very, very good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But they are gonna have to get that price down even further.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I think they’re following the iPod playbook here, where it’s really expensive, Mac only

⏹️ ▶️ John in the beginning, whatever. Or like the iPhone thing, diversifying the line. iPods diversified

⏹️ ▶️ John and went down market really far to the point where it was like a $49 stick of gum thing, right? I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think the watch is ever going to go down that far, but like the phone started as a singular product and diversified

⏹️ ▶️ John and kept the old models around and did stuff like that and now that they’re upgrading the old models, we’ll get to that in the phone thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s also a viable strategy, but I totally see it like this is the first design of the watch, right? Wait for the second

⏹️ ▶️ John or third design, it should start to diversify such that they are selling something

⏹️ ▶️ John that is more or less a direct competitor for with the Fitbits at that point. Like Fitbit

⏹️ ▶️ John is pretty safe for now hanging out with this little rubbery bands with the little turds inside them with a tiny like LED

⏹️ ▶️ John display, right? But Apple will come for them eventually. Like Apple will not leave that market. But for now,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is content to like you were saying that the one you saw the most is the Apple Watch as in the stainless steel one.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’ve seen I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seen a very small number of stainless steel ones ever in real life outside of WBC. No, I would say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by far the ones I saw the most for the sport ones by by a mile. But like

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple, the Apple Watch is still a bubble for people who shop in the Apple Store. Like it is. It assumes

⏹️ ▶️ John you have money to burn on fancy gadgets and you’re already buying expensive crap at the Apple Store. Buy some more

⏹️ ▶️ John expensive crap at the Apple Store. Right. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ John but iPod started out that way to do you have five hundred dollars to spend on a deck of cards that some

⏹️ ▶️ John music do Hickey. Eventually they They were selling those things at every increment of $50, from $50 up to several hundred.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think the watch can get there. Because as the… Like, here’s the thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John The CPU power and GPU power required to do a decent watch is within shooting

⏹️ ▶️ John distance in a generation or two of being acceptable. And that will just shrink

⏹️ ▶️ John and shrink and shrink and shrink. And unlike a phone or something, you can make a watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if they work out this interface, you can make the watch pretty slim and pretty small as long as it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ John watch size and still keep most of the functionality. So I think in several generations,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll have no place to go but down market to start pressing these things down. I don’t you know, $199

⏹️ ▶️ John low end Apple watch in a few years, no problem $150 one in four years, no problem. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John where where is the room for your stupid rubbery band as Fitbit? There’s no room left for you. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John hope they executed that strategy because I think it’s a viable one. But for now, they seem mostly content

⏹️ ▶️ John to stay high end. Although speaking of high end, it was interesting to see that you don’t hear about the edition, the edition

⏹️ ▶️ John much anymore, but they still have a product called edition and it’s not gold anymore. It’s ceramic, which looks

⏹️ ▶️ John cool, but it sure as hell isn’t 17 grand anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Before we get to that, I wanted to just point something out about the other Apple watches. So if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go to their interactive gallery, and we’ll put a link in the show notes, the edition isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there, which I don’t think it ever was. So that’s not that terribly remarkable, but I was fiddling around on this while you guys we’re talking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and if you start with the cases, so you’re picking effectively which watch to get,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it shows you all the different sizes and colors and whatnot. And as you go through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them and pick one, so if you take, for example, the 42 millimeter silver aluminum case, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then there’s links at the bottom, I’m looking on a desktop, you know, buy model, and then that’s where you go to actually buy it. What’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey interesting is it starts at $269 for the 38 millimeter or $299 for the 42

⏹️ ▶️ Casey millimeter, But then as you scroll down, it’s which series

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you want? $299 for the Series 1 or $399 for the Series 2? And I find that interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because there’s no clear distinction. Like, are you buying an iPhone 6 or you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buy—or 6s actually—or are you buying an iPhone 7? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my recollection is that was always a fork in the road. Whereas here, it’s just, hey, you want to get a 42-millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey silver aluminum case Apple watch, what flavor do you want? Do you want series one, series two,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, 38, 42 pick your poison. And that, that to my recollection is different than the way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it used to be. And smart, because I think like you guys were saying, even though this is pitched

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a fitness device, if you’re not someone who’s working out outside

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or working out in a swimming pool, why would you need the series two? Maybe you always

⏹️ ▶️ Casey work out on a treadmill, or maybe you never, ever, ever take this thing into any sort

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of water. Save yourself the money, like Marco was saying, get the Series One. It’s effectively

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just as good if those things are not your priority. I just thought that was cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John You lose the screens, not as bright either. There are other- Actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s true. That’s true. I’d forgotten about that. But yeah, I think this is a very smart way of handling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. Now to come to the addition, I did not realize that the ceramic was the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey addition until Marco mentioned it earlier. I heard them talk about the ceramic. I didn’t know that that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was taking the moniker edition, which apparently it is. And so I’m sorry, I interrupted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you before. I believe it was Marco that was talking. So tell me, Marco, as a watch nerd,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why would I want a ceramic watch?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco Amiro Ceramic is really shiny. It looks really cool in person. It is an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco extremely hard material. It is very scratch and dent resistant,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more so than almost anything else you could make a watch out of. It’s kind of like sapphire in that way. it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very high on the hardness scale, and you basically can’t scratch it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or dent it easily. However, it does shatter. All this hardness,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco typically for strength, you need to be able to take dents and flex.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So typically materials that are extremely hard also have the problem of shattering if they get enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of an impact. So basically, it would not be wise to use it on the sport

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model, and that’s probably one of the reasons why they haven’t. Now the other reason they haven’t is because ceramic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for, you know, in the context of making watches out of it, ceramic is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly expensive and difficult to manufacture. It’s just, you know, it’s not that it can’t be done,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just, it costs a lot to do it. And it takes, you know, a little more specialized machining and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco techniques and everything else. So, typically you don’t find a lot of low-end watches made out of ceramic. It’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not worth the cost to do it. This is exactly the kind of thing Apple should be doing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because Apple is really good at exactly that kind of problem of mass producing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that most people can’t make very well or at all, or to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good quality or volume standards because it takes incredible manufacturing expertise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or incredible investment up front in high-end machines or something like that. Apple’s very good at that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like in the previous Apple Watch, they had the amazing DLC Space Black

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Steel Watch, they still sell, thank God, because it’s amazing. The Space

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Black, which is what they call it, the Space Black watch, the coating on that also is extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard and pretty much impossible to scratch or show any damage for, but because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is simply a coating on stainless steel, that will not have a shattering problem. So honestly, if you want a watch that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to look really good no matter how much damage it takes, get the Space Black watch with the link bracelet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, that’s the one to get. But if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna be doing high impact stuff, get the aluminum one and just accept that you might chip

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it or scratch it or scratch the screen just because if you hit it hard enough, because that’s better than shattering your whole watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The ceramic one is gonna be really nice. I love that they have taken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edition which was completely out of reach for everybody who would buy an Apple Watch. Regular watches,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you go buy a solid gold regular watch, you’re gonna spend over 10 grand, no question. and probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over 20. So that was not an unreasonable price for a solid gold high-end

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch. But that’s not really what people want if they’re buying a solid gold high-end watch. They want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a mechanical beauty piece that’s going to last decades or more. They don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a technology that’s gonna perform like an iPad One and be about as useful as an iPad One in five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years. So anyway, this is a smarter way to go. Bring the price way down. The addition,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the new addition to ceramic is $1300. That’s a great price point for this, because it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s roughly what the high-end link bracelet ones cost, plus like a couple hundred, and that’s roughly what the Hermes ones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cost. So that’s a great price point for this. The one weird thing about it, I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that if you go to any place that sells ceramic watches, and you can’t miss the ceramic watch case,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is glowing and bright, because ceramic, it’s usually very highly polished, and they usually have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco link bracelets too, and so you see like all these incredibly shiny white surfaces next to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the incredibly shiny black ceramic surfaces. And if I had to take a guess,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco black ceramic watches are probably way more popular than white ceramic watches. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do wonder why now, a day after Labor Day, they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unveiled a white ceramic watch and not a black one in addition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or instead. Johnny Ive has a lot of white pants. Maybe in California

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they can wear white all year round. I don’t know. So yeah, that’s a weird thing. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down the road we will get that. We’ll get the black one maybe at the spring refresh event

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something. Who knows. But that is kind of a weird omission to offer white ceramic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the edition and not offer black ceramic. Because black ceramic is very popular. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll see about that. The other thing about the, you know, there’s the entire Hermes collection and that’s not entirely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new because we’ve had that for a while, but that too I think is interesting. You know, if you look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at an actual Hermes watch that’s not an Apple watch, you know, they sell lots of watches themselves.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s actually one that I really like a lot called the slim, oh God, the slim de Hermes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m so sorry to the entire nation of France. It’s a beautiful watch. It’s $7,000 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think I want to spend $7,000 on that watch even though it’s beautiful. To get the Hermes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco name and an Hermes strap on a nice looking watch for a thousand bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is actually a pretty good buy in the watch world. You know, and that is expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco compared to the Apple Watch, well, what used to be called the Apple Watch Sport, but for people who want something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nice and are willing to spend a little bit more, that’s not that different. Like, that’s within reach, right? It’s still a lot of money,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s within reach. So I think bringing the whole price ceiling down from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco literally $15,000 down to like $1,400, I think is really smart.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t realize until you just said that, that the new ceramic edition

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is just barely more than the super fancy Darth Vader setup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of stainless steel with space black and all that stuff. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much, I mean, obviously 13 or 1500 or whatever it is, is a lot less than 10 plus thousand, But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t realize it is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from the more expensive regular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ones. That’s impressive, and I dig it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I imagine Johnny Ive has a white ceramic link bracelet that he’s wearing right now with the ceramic watch edition.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John also surprised they don’t have black, and I’m also surprised there’s no ceramic link bracelet if that’s even a thing that they do, because it would

⏹️ ▶️ John just go together so nicely. But got to leave room for the twice yearly updates.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I could totally see them making a black ceramic one these yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m surprised there weren’t that many new straps there was I mean maybe there were some new colors mixed in there but

⏹️ ▶️ John the only one I really noticed was the Nike one with the holes in it which I thought looked pretty cool like that whole watch the Nike I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I wouldn’t wear it on my wrist but doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John look cool as like as a sculpture as like a product shot cool as the as the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 5c hole cases. Remember those?

⏹️ ▶️ John No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cool. It’s cooler than that. I actually didn’t think those were bad. This is I think it’s the colors

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that drive me so crazy like the look of it in and of itself like if it was just black, let’s say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or just white. I don’t think the the whole cut out that the cross drill look is that bad,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but these god awful neon colors. Oh no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John thank you. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Nike branded. It’s branded within an inch of its life like the whole you look at that. You know, that’s Nike branded like the

⏹️ ▶️ John whole thing. It’s just the colors match on the screen and on the thing and the whole Nike with the font

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything like that is a that is a Nike sport watch. Look at the stuff that they sell. That is exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John on brand for them and I even give them credit for saying you know what we have holes in it and it’s not just like we had to

⏹️ ▶️ John come up with some way to add neon. It’s vaguely functional like if it’s going to be a sport watch this one will

⏹️ ▶️ John certainly breathe more than one that doesn’t have holes because the holes are pretty darn big. So you know

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re already buying neon Nike running shoes and and like headbands

⏹️ ▶️ John and like all the other outfits and just spandex or whatever like this fits right in with that aesthetic

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not gonna you know wear it to dinner at night because it’s a glowing green black

⏹️ ▶️ John thing with this weird slanty font on it but uh i i think it

⏹️ ▶️ John is exactly on brand i mean you have a million different kinds of watch like i think it looks less ridiculous than that

⏹️ ▶️ John double cuff thing that air maze thing with the I don’t understand

⏹️ ▶️ John those. Like the one that wraps around twice?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. The one that has two

⏹️ ▶️ John parallel straps? Like, all right, do we have some sort of, is this like some sort of disease where you’re afraid that the watch is gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John depart and you need to just keep adding more and more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco straps? Well, you’d put a NATO on if that was the reason. No, but that’s like, I’m looking at the picture of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the one with the two buckles. It’s like, how many hands do you need to put this watch on? Like, is this only for people with assistants

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to help them get dressed?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s like a

⏹️ ▶️ John wrist corset. Yeah, oh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco my God. eventually bigger people are going to be lacing them up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Definitely a part of, even though I’m so into watches, that’s definitely a part of fashion I do not understand at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Goodness,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right. So all in all, summarize the watch. I’m giving this two thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think this looks great. A few people seemed perturbed that this didn’t include

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a cellular modem. Maybe if and when that time comes, which presumably it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will, maybe I’ll think, my goodness, I want this, it’s amazing. But sitting here now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think I really need or necessarily want a cellular modem on my watch. My watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is always within reach of my phone or within a Wi-Fi connection of my phone. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not disappointed by that. I think adding GPS is smart. I think adding the battery to offset that new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey power-hungry GPS is smart. I think this looks great. And keeping the Series 1 around

⏹️ ▶️ Casey while giving it that shadow update like you guys were talking about is smart. I am all on board

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with this. I don’t think I’m going to get a new one. I would like the GPS,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s not do or die for me. I would like the better water

⏹️ ▶️ Casey protection, but again, not do or die for me. So I think I’m gonna wait,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but man, if you’re thinking about an Apple Watch, now’s the time. This is a great, great,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great lineup.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean like the cellular modem, that was never gonna happen this year. I mean, if you look at the limitations of,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They have this very, compared to a phone, this very, very small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enclosure here that has to sell for a very low price point and has to have very long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco battery life. The limitations of what they can cram in there, both space-wise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and for power and heat concerns, they can barely, just now, like a year and a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco half after they launched the original watch, they can now just barely get it performing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well to just do local stuff, like to just hit buttons and change screens. They can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco barely achieve that now. So the idea of throwing in a cellular modem and having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough free space and power and budget to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have all that in there, I think it’s just unrealistic. That was never going to happen this year. We’re lucky

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we got GPS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree, but all in all, you’re pleased with it, Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely, I mean, I still don’t really think it’s for me, but if I decided to go back to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being an Apple Watch wearer every day, I would absolutely get one of the new Series 2 models, probably the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stainless steel like I had before, because that’s a good balance for me of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looks and budget and functionality. But yeah, a solid, solid update.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think what remains to be seen is how much faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the CPU is in reality. That I think I’m looking forward to people’s reactions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and reviews to see that in practice, and to see if there’s any other downsides, Like is the battery life, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco substantially different or worse under certain usage profiles or whatever else. But it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna be really good. So I would say if you are an Apple Watch user and you wouldn’t miss a few hundred dollars,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buy the new one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we haven’t mentioned, and I don’t wanna talk about it now cause I think we covered it relatively well in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the WWDC episode, but watchOS 3 is great. I think it’s a little overblown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right now how much more instant everything is, but I think a lot of that is coming from me not having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watchOS 3 built third-party apps, but watchOS 3 is great and made

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my Apple Watch Series Zero feel a heck of a lot better. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really like the changes they’ve done to the way watchOS 3 works, changes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’ve done between two and three. So all good things on the watch, but John, why don’t you wrap it up for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, as someone who has stopped wearing his Apple Watch, I still have fond feelings about it. I still look

⏹️ ▶️ John at it occasionally. Once in a while I wear it and mostly I stop wearing it just because I’m not a watch person and this

⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t able to get me over the hump. But all that said, none of these new watches are making me want to buy them. I’m still

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting to see like the next generation to get it slimmed down to, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John the actual big redesign. But I think Marco hit the nail on the head earlier when he said the most important

⏹️ ▶️ John aspect of this watch design from the perspective of a technical person is that it is now 100%

⏹️ ▶️ John safe to tell anyone just go into the store and buy an Apple watch because none of them are stinkers.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean even if they adjust on the hardware that would be true but the hardware plus watchOS 3

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel confident that anybody who is vaguely interested in going there and whichever one you buy will

⏹️ ▶️ John be great and be aware like you know about the GPS because I think that is if they had to pick one feature to add for that

⏹️ ▶️ John big battery they pick the right one because I know a lot of people who I mean my wife included she has this

⏹️ ▶️ John giant clunky Garmin GPS watch because if you’re a runner and you want to keep track of your runs

⏹️ ▶️ John you want to show me exactly where I ran like my exact route like that’s that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s an important feature and to have to have your big clunky phone with you especially if it’s a plus

⏹️ ▶️ John is difficult to try to find like a belt to strap it to and then you’re wearing your watch and so she ends up just wearing the Garmin GPS

⏹️ ▶️ John thing because she can bring one thing with her. These are both good products series

⏹️ ▶️ John one and series two are both good products. The fatter watch Now that I know it’s a millimeter fat, it reminds

⏹️ ▶️ John me a little bit of my beloved iPad 3. But, you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the ceramic, everything about it, like this, I think is

⏹️ ▶️ John the right compromise between new features, new technology

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything while we wait for the big redesigned Apple Watch Series 3 or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John they change it to. So I’m not tempted to buy one, but I am happy with the update.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The only thing I would say though is that, with the exception of the GPS, which as you mentioned, that’s no small thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because as we’ve been talking about, the Apple Watch has really found its market in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fitness tracking. That’s such a big part of it, of why people buy it and why people use it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So to add one big thing to help that market tremendously is totally worth

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and totally the right call. But I will say though, other than GPS, they didn’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco address any of the reasons why you wouldn’t have wanted one before. So basically like if you were already into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Apple Watch, this is a great update. If you didn’t buy one before for a particular reason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other than GPS, that reason probably still applies.

⏹️ ▶️ John One more thing on the watch before we leave. I left out the most important reason for my

⏹️ ▶️ John life, my personal life. My wife, I assume, will be getting a new Apple Watch. She does not

⏹️ ▶️ John have an Apple Watch. She’s thought about getting, she’s seen mine, she knows what it’s like, she’s thought about getting it but

⏹️ ▶️ John for a variety of reasons just never gotten over the hump for that. I mean part of it is

⏹️ ▶️ John that she can’t wear it in all the places at work so she can wear a Fitbit everywhere at work or most places at work but

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t wear the Apple Watch which is kind of a pain. But like I said she does run, she does use a big clunky Garmin

⏹️ ▶️ John GPS thing when she runs, she does have a Fitbit. So she’s got the Garmin, she’s got the Fitbit, and

⏹️ ▶️ John she’s got the iPhone. The thing that’s going to put her over the edge is Pokemon Go on the watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what’s gonna do it because

⏹️ ▶️ John she is still playing Pokemon Go and it’s really difficult with the 6s plus like to just have that big phone

⏹️ ▶️ John out and the game makes you either have the phone out or have it in like it’s supposed to have like the sleep

⏹️ ▶️ John mode where you turn it upside down and the screen goes off and it never quite works right. It’s a little bit buggy but to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John to do like I now I know enough about the game and they’re showing like oh you can incubate your eggs and see how much time you have left and blah blah

⏹️ ▶️ John like I know what all those things are and I know that she does it with her giant phone out of she could just do it with a

⏹️ ▶️ John watch this is I almost guarantee that she’s going to get an Apple watch and she’ll claim

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not because of Pokemon go but it kind of is

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have not yet mentioned vastly improved diversity of the presentation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crew on this presentation. From the start,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was a lot, lot better. I was disappointed and I thought, God, I can never get her name pronounced right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But Bozema St. John, I believe,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is it? I’m pretty sure that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. I was disappointed she wasn’t there because she just killed it at WWDC.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But many, many, many more not white, not dude faces, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a vast improvement. I was really happy to see. Although Jason pointed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out earlier, Jason Snell had pointed out earlier, that most of that diversity was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either in the photography that was shown by the white dudes or by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey third parties that were coming on stage. Some of it was Apple themselves, but a lot of it was the third parties, which is a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit of a bummer. But I’ll take any improvement, any improvement at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all. So that’s that’s a good step. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, it’s progress, but we’re not done.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John Very well summarized. And I think the new factor here is they’re finding new ways to make progress, like

⏹️ ▶️ John because they again, it’s it’s Tim and Phil and what’s his name

⏹️ ▶️ John on the watch? Sorry, I can’t remember. There’s a bunch of old white guys who are roughly the same age who are still in charge of all these major projects

⏹️ ▶️ John right so that isn’t changing and that’s difficult to change on a dime but you can change who’s in the

⏹️ ▶️ John product photos easily and like it’s amazing that hadn’t occurred to them to lean on that more heavily

⏹️ ▶️ John in the past because they have they’ve always done a pretty good job on that but like you know what if we can’t do it in this other area if we can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John fire Phil and replace him right and we don’t want to we’ll just lean really hard in the other area that we can

⏹️ ▶️ John control like it’s it’s uh they’re finding more levers to pull to try to

⏹️ ▶️ John uh make an effort in this area and it’s good that they’re not sort of like deciding that they’re done and just coasting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, I was pleased to see that.

iPhone 7: Design

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, iPhone 7. While Phil came on stage,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is Phil, I think, at his best. Phil Schiller, just really happy, really enthusiastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He said that he was going to go through 10 different points to describe the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new iPhone 7. I think we’re just going to go through them one by one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very first one, does the refined was the word to use design,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which outside of colors basically meant move

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the antenna, um, up the antennas up to the top and to the bottom,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and otherwise it looks about the same to my eye.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I tweeted, this was a hanging lantern on it. It’s the expression from like script writing where you have something

⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t really make sense in the plot of your movie and the way you handle it is by having one of the characters in the movie say,

⏹️ ▶️ John but this doesn’t make sense, that shouldn’t even be possible.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And once they

⏹️ ▶️ John say that, the audience accepts, oh, if no one says it, the audience is insulted. Like, you expect me to believe

⏹️ ▶️ John this, that’s not how that works. But if someone in the movie says, but that’s not possible, that shouldn’t be happening, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, that’s what I’m thinking too in the audience guy up on the screen, now I feel better about it. So this is the same design, we’ve talked

⏹️ ▶️ John about this before. It’s not, they haven’t changed it. I think all the old cases fit too, like is it exactly the same down

⏹️ ▶️ John to the millimeter?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The cases won’t fit because the camera openings are now totally different.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, even on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 7? Yeah, it’s a much bigger camera opening.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is it? So the exterior dimensions all told, leaving aside

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera bump, the exterior dimensions are identical. Or if not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey identical, then so unbelievably fricking close that I don’t know how you can tell the difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But you make an interesting point, Marco, that I hadn’t considered, that the camera bumps are different.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that might, well, certainly on the 7, 7 Plus. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, you don’t have a hole for the headphone port coming, so at the very least, it would be weird to put a six

⏹️ ▶️ John on there and have this hole where there’s nothing. But at any rate, essentially the same design,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they lead with that, with the new design, and the Johnny Ive video is great because,

⏹️ ▶️ John what is he gonna say about this? Like, he says all the things you’d expect him to say, like, this is our third bite at this apple. This is our

⏹️ ▶️ John third, you know, it’s the ultimate refinement of this design, right? So this is a design they’ve had time

⏹️ ▶️ John to work on. First one was a little bendy, second one was stiffer, and now they’re just like move the antenna

⏹️ ▶️ John lines, you know, they’re just continue. You can imagine if they were forced by, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John some unseen, you know, an alien to say, you have to keep doing this design forever and just refining it. Johnny I would just continue

⏹️ ▶️ John to find ways to like reduce moving parts and make it better and just, you know, thinner and lighter. But

⏹️ ▶️ John if you watch that video again, the Johnny I video is available on Apple’s website. I think they called the design video.

⏹️ ▶️ John Wait until the last line he says, which is I forget the exact wording.

⏹️ ▶️ John He basically recaps what he said at the beginning. At the end he says, this is the ultimate incarnation,

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, I’m paraphrasing, I don’t remember what he says, of this design. The way he says it, he says, this is the ultimate incarnation

⏹️ ▶️ John of this design. Like, he says it as if he’s holding the iPhone 8 in his hand

⏹️ ▶️ John while he says it. Like, I can’t believe they let that intonation go in there. Go listen to it again. Marco will put a

⏹️ ▶️ John clip in right here and we’ll be able to hear how it is. It’s totally weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When complete, iPhone 7 is the most singular, the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco evolved representation

⏹️ ▶️ John of this design.

⏹️ ▶️ John But honestly, hanging a lantern on it or lampshading it or whatever you want to call it for the new

⏹️ ▶️ John design, I think it worked on me. You know why? Like we knew about the Jet Black ahead of time, or you did if you were looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at rumor sites. I really like the Jet Black. I think the product shots of this thing are amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve never been a hater of this design as much as Marco is. I think it is a perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ John Cromulent design. Like it is a rounded rectangle. Shouldn’t have been bendy, way too

⏹️ ▶️ John slippery. But aesthetically speaking, the Jet Black one is the first

⏹️ ▶️ John one of this design that I actually could say that I’ve liked. Not just tolerate it and say, yeah, it’s fine, it’s okay. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the Jet Black one looks freaking cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can you tell me what Cromulent means? It’s not in the Apple dictionary. It’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ John it would take too long, except for the other show. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I agree with you that the jet black, at least aesthetically, looks awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I immediately thought to myself, oh, I know what I’m getting. I’m gonna be getting a jet black

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone 7, and then I thought other things, which we’ll talk about in a minute. But what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was interesting was, I had noticed earlier today that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically comes out and all but says, well, the jet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey black one is probably going to get the smithereens scratched out of it. So it says

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the page that you go to go ahead and buy it, footnote number two, the high gloss

⏹️ ▶️ Casey finish of the jet black iPhone seven is achieved through a precision nine step anodization and polishing process.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It surfaces equally as hard as other anodized Apple products. However, it’s high shine may show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine micro abrasions with use. If you are concerned about this, we suggest you use one of the many cases

⏹️ ▶️ Casey available to protect your iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just

⏹️ ▶️ John get the black one without the jet.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I mean, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the most important aspect of this, aesthetically speaking, before we get into how these things might feel is the black is back. I

⏹️ ▶️ John hate the white front of all iOS devices. I think it’s crazy to put a actual

⏹️ ▶️ John bright white physical device next to your screen. It just makes your screen look dingy because your screen is never going to be as

⏹️ ▶️ John white as a reflective white surface. Black. Black. Use it in all your product shots. It makes the surface look

⏹️ ▶️ John like one big giant featureless thing and the screen just comes out of it. Black everywhere. Black front, black back.

⏹️ ▶️ John Everywhere. Black is back. I’m happy about that. And I have two blacks. It’s so awesome. They have not space

⏹️ ▶️ John black, not space gray, just black and jet black. And I agree that the… I wish they’d call it piano black, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I agree that the shiny black one… I mean, can you even look at it? Can you even take it out

⏹️ ▶️ John of the case? Like, it’s like the guitar and spinal tap. Don’t touch it. Don’t don’t even look at it. Like you can’t touch that with

⏹️ ▶️ John your fingers. Like it’s just, you know, it’s like the piano black and Marcos car, right? You have that friend

⏹️ ▶️ John and you’re a Tesla, right? Mm hmm. You can’t touch it. You can’t breathe on it. You can’t do anything with

⏹️ ▶️ John it. But boy, does it look good in product shots. And it takes a lot to get me excited about the same laws

⏹️ ▶️ John in shape that’s been here for three years. But they found a way to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, visually, visually, I think this looks unbelievably good.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. So now do you think this thing is going to squirt out of our hands like like one of those little inverted water

⏹️ ▶️ John balloon things.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You know what those are? MATT ROWE Well, so this is what’s interesting about this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Gruber was in the hands-on area doing a couple of periscopes earlier today, and he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said that people were asking about the grippiness of the two different blacks,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and he said that, and there was a couple people that backed this up, so it’s not just him, that the jet black

⏹️ ▶️ Marco super shiny one is almost tacky feeling. It is surprisingly grippier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the regular steel or the regular aluminum ones that we’ve had to date. And grippier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the matte black one. So this is going to be interesting. Basically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what do you choose here? Do you choose something that looks better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in pristine conditions, but is probably going to look worse all times of day, every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco day in reality, and after the first day you have it, but is easier to hold?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do you go with the one that is slippery and harder to hold and you’ll probably have to have a case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it? So to me, I’m kind of leaning towards glossy black, jet black, just because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like having the additional grip texture. And if it’s going to look crappy on the back, oh well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I leave my phone… so I’ve been going caseless for the last few months. I got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those, the D-brand skin that MKBHD told everybody about, I got those because they’re like 12 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for for both my my success and then I also have the the six

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Non s plus for that. I bought for testing back when the first bus came out And I put it on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both of those just a basic black Vinyl skin basically and it really doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco improve the grip by a decent amount but This sounds like it might even be more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. And so if I can get a very grippy back, like I wonder is it going to be as grippy as the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the the old plastic cases on the 5c and the 3g and 3gs? Because that would be like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it achieves that level of grip I don’t care how it looks like that that would be amazing to hold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a new potentially giant phone. Because what you don’t want with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these big phones, you don’t want to need a case because cases add size.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if your complaint is that the phone is too big in your hand or pocket, the last thing you want to do is have to bulk it up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just to add grip, because then you’re making that problem even worse. So ideally, like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason I switched back after about a year and a half of using the leather case, the reason I switched back to caseless

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with these vinyl things is because I wanted a smaller pocket size. Like I wanted to minimize that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it works great and then I have you know the full usefulness of the of the left side

⏹️ ▶️ Marco swipe, the pushing and the force touch for for like all the edge gestures and everything, which are a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little bit harder using the leather case. So like, ideally, caseless but grippy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the way to go. So I am totally willing to get the fingerprint

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and scratch magnet and accept that it will just never look good as long as it works well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my hand. Because when I’m using the phone, I’m not looking at the back.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. Also interesting, which was not mentioned during the keynote but now is probably a pretty good time to say it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple quietly reduced the price of Apple. What is it? Apple care

⏹️ ▶️ Casey screen replacements. It used to be, I believe a hundred dollars and now it’s only 30, which.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is probably going to be enough for me to buy Apple care

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the first time ever. And potentially enough for me to go caseless for the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey first time in quite a long time. I think I started using cases with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey four S I think that’s right. And I’ve been in cases

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of some flavor ever since. If AppleCare, if you get two accidental replacements

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for 30 bucks a pop with AppleCare, which I believe is the case, and I have yet to,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how do you pronounce that word? Irrecoverably, anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yet to really destroy an iPhone. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve yet to properly destroy an iPhone, knock on wood. I think I might go caseless

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and just get AppleCare for the first time and just take my chances because that’s not a bad deal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get a whole new screen replacement, assuming there’s no other damage to the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have bad news for you. You have irrevocably

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey destroyed

⏹️ ▶️ John the second you get that screen replace.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey You can’t, this is not repairable devices.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sorry to tell you that, but the ones that once they open up to replace the screen and put it back together, it’s never

⏹️ ▶️ John the same.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, you’re probably right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Basically. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, it’s not that I’m saying I’m planning on dropping the thing, but. But for the first time in a long time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey caseless might be caseless. Oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco God. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John so tempted to hit the bell, but I just can’t. I just can’t do it. Margo will insert some terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John rim shot. He

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco deserves it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wow. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John so what about the shiny, the jet black business? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of, I’m not going to say this is the same as the iPod Nano, the scratcherific iPod Nano,

⏹️ ▶️ John but this is, aesthetics aside and grippiness aside,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the wrong material to make super shiny. I still maintain that my favorite and the best

⏹️ ▶️ John phone design, aesthetically speaking, as just an object that you hold in your hand setting aside

⏹️ ▶️ John most other things about it, is the 4 and 4s and the black ones obviously. The black 4 and

⏹️ ▶️ John 4s had a shiny black back to them and that worked because it was

⏹️ ▶️ John glass which is incredibly scratch resistant unlike this surface which apparently if you sneeze

⏹️ ▶️ John on it it’s gonna get scratched even if you put a case on it it’s gonna get scratched because in between the case and your shiny

⏹️ ▶️ John black back is gonna be some tiny little piece of dust that’s gonna leave microscopic scratches on it right

⏹️ ▶️ John but speaking of $30 screen replacements glass back not a great idea because

⏹️ ▶️ John now you have two sides that can shatter and people did so I’m assuming the

⏹️ ▶️ John 10th anniversary iPhone 8 complete edge to edge piece of glass blah blah blah

⏹️ ▶️ John that presentation should have parts of it that were omitted for this one parts that emphasize

⏹️ ▶️ John how much stronger the glass is and how much it resists shattering and instead bends and

⏹️ ▶️ John uh you know how much stiffer the case is like just all the damage aspects they lean down

⏹️ ▶️ John waterproofing and dust proofing which is great and i’m glad they’re advancing on those fronts but droppability

⏹️ ▶️ John wise this one is just as shattery as the other ones And now if you get the jet black one,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like the scratchiest thing that could ever be that Apple has ever shipped according to their own documentation

⏹️ ▶️ John here, except for the iPod Nano. So I think if you, you know, if you just want it for grippiness,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s fine. I think if you buy this and use it without a case or even if you use it with the case, you have to embrace the idea that it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to get scuffed up. And I don’t know, maybe it will look good when it’s scuffed up or maybe like Marco, you shouldn’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s another one of those products that unfortunately, you have to divorce the reality of Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John product shots from the product that you’re gonna actually unwrap because they’re mostly unrelated to each other

⏹️ ▶️ John and just make your piece with what it’s gonna really be like to own it. But that aesthetic, shiny

⏹️ ▶️ John black that maintains, the 4 and 4S did that. Like because it’s not, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can make glass pretty hard and scratch-proof. So if you didn’t drop it and shatter either side of

⏹️ ▶️ John it, like I go look at my wife’s 4S right now, it still looks pretty darn good. I mean, it looks

⏹️ ▶️ John almost like it’s new. That was an incredibly good design. And if you’re going to do glossy, you have to do it something that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John scratch resistant. Otherwise you’re just inviting trouble. And so Apple is inviting trouble with this jet black thing, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, yeah, it looks really cool in pictures and videos and yeah, no one has ever touched it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Like if you look also in Gruber’s periscope that this is one, I believe it was the second one in the hands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on area. You can see like the phone that was in the hands on area like at one point he like does like an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco angle shot and you can just see like it’s covered in fingerprints. And that’s like from a few,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they had people like the staffers who were there running the hands-on area,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people were saying that they would wipe them down with polishing cloths between each person handling them most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the time. And this one was just like one that was lying down flat on the table, which obviously was handled by like two or three people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe at most. And it was covered in fingerprints. Like, basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your phone, if you get the jet black, will never look the way it, like, by the time you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unwrapping it and plugging it in to sync everything over, if you do everything with iTunes, like a smart person with backups,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because then you don’t have to enter your passwords all over again if you click the Encrypt Backups box. Anyway, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the time you’re done, like, setting up your phone, it’s not gonna look like that anymore. Like, you won’t even get a day with it looking like that. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t touch it. You can’t touch it, you can’t expose it to the air or dust or anything like, you just can’t. And

⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the thing, the front of all of our phones all already looks gross. Like we are exuding

⏹️ ▶️ John oil all the time. Our little fleshy appendages are just gross and they’re like constantly, like that’s just the way

⏹️ ▶️ John it is. If you touch things with your bare fingers, they will be gross. The front of the, look at the front of your phone right now.

⏹️ ▶️ John It is a mess. It has to be like, they put the oleophobic coating on there to make the oil spread,

⏹️ ▶️ John but like there’s no getting around it. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the way, I was wondering, like did they put that coating on the jet black? Because they never mention it, so the answer is probably no.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seemed like it would have benefited from the oleophobic coating. I don’t know if that would

⏹️ ▶️ John have made it slippier, but like there’s no hope. Like the smudges, there’s nothing anybody can do about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. But I think, again, getting back to the 4 and 4S, they smudged up and everything too. But smudges

⏹️ ▶️ John can buff right out. Scratches less so. So if it is scratchy, then it’s just going to

⏹️ ▶️ John look like a big scuffed up mess. And it’s like getting scratches in the clear coat of your car. Eventually it just looks like a mess. Whereas

⏹️ ▶️ John if your car was entirely made of glass, wouldn’t get scratches, but probably not a great material choice

⏹️ ▶️ John for a car.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for many of the same reasons. Yeah, the other thing I would say about these colors is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the non-glossy black looks a little bit dated. It reminds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me of the iPhone 5, not before the 5S, when it had its own space black. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just kind of looks like, okay, you had a bunch of geeks pick some phone colors, and of course they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to pick black.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like that it’s actually black, though. I’m sick of all these different grays. Make it black.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But see, now we have two blacks, though. we really need to like because then if you look at the rest of the colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the you know there’s no more space grace now it’s you basically have like light silver gold and pink

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I to me the whole lineup with the exception of the the glossy black one the colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look a little bit dated and stale to me they look a little bit overplayed now which is weird for a brand new high-profile

⏹️ ▶️ Marco device like this like I don’t is it just me like do those colors not look old to you

⏹️ ▶️ John those colors don’t those colors don’t do anything for this design the reason I think the Jet Black looks so good

⏹️ ▶️ John is that it accentuates the parts of this design that are interesting, which is basically the rounded edges. And the rounded edges

⏹️ ▶️ John just blend away into nothing if you have an entirely matte case on it. When you have something that is glossy or even something that is

⏹️ ▶️ John black is more reflective, it highlights the the rounded edges and makes it look cool. Or even just a little

⏹️ ▶️ John highlights around the little speaker openings. If everything is matte, it’s like, well, there’s a screen and then some amorphous

⏹️ ▶️ John blob back there that’s like silvery or goldy, and that’s not doing this design any favors. And you’re right,

⏹️ ▶️ John they have repeated those colors for a long period of time and they’re not particularly helping it but I think most people use

⏹️ ▶️ John cases I think the black one is great mostly because you get the black front with it and then just throw it in a case and like

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even remember what color the back of my phone is I assume it’s like grayish something but I don’t see it because it’s inside my case

⏹️ ▶️ John so I think it’s appropriate like what else could they do with it could they make them like really dark

⏹️ ▶️ John primary colors I think that would be unwise at this point it’s best to just stick

⏹️ ▶️ John with colors they know they know the relative popularity of those colors add one or two new things in the mix

⏹️ ▶️ John and interesting also that they’re doing the the black book thing $150 for black

⏹️ ▶️ John if you want your MacBook in black well if you want the jet black one you can’t get the lower storage

⏹️ ▶️ John model you have to get the 128 or 256 which so it’s a clear signal that the jet black one is supposed to be the fancy

⏹️ ▶️ John one they’re kind of punishing you for your desires for a shiny phone by a giving you a phone that’s never gonna look like

⏹️ ▶️ John that and be making you pay more which is totally in the Apple tradition and everyone who buys the jet black one

⏹️ ▶️ John including me are gonna deserve it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so you are getting a jet black one

⏹️ ▶️ John I think so I think I’m gonna get one because like I didn’t know if there would be anything in the seven to convince Me to upgrade because this is

⏹️ ▶️ John my year. I have a six Mostly I was convinced by the things we

⏹️ ▶️ John haven’t talked about yet, but the jet black didn’t hurt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Fair you are the perfect person to have a jet black because you are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always slightly dissatisfied But everything and you will always be slightly dissatisfied with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the condition of your jet black finish

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if I think I’ll probably still get a case for it I’m generally dissatisfied with the state of my leather case. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John what’s happened to it, but it’s starting to get all rumply and pimply. So it looked, my leather case was awesome

⏹️ ▶️ John up until maybe three months ago, and then it started to get rumply, and now I’m like, maybe I should get a black silicone case next time. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I have to hold it in person to see what it’s like, how slippery it is, because I would not use my 6S without a case

⏹️ ▶️ John ever. I don’t think I would use a 6S without a case ever either. I’ll have to try this one out to see how it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am really torn because I really like the look of the jet black, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think even in a case, I’m going to know that that thing’s getting scratched crap.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I actually think the, the black black looks really darn

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good as well. I completely echo what John is saying that to me, anything other than a black iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is kind of silly. Like it would be one thing I would actually really consider the silver phone if it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had a black front, but these white faces just, Oh no, thank you. If there was, if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there was a silver and black, I’d probably pull the trigger on that one. But since there’s not, I think I’m going to go

⏹️ ▶️ Casey regular black. And I think I’m going to go 128. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t think I need to go 256. And we’ll talk more about that later. Marco, what are you planning on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we will. So I’m going jet black for the grip, even though I know it’s gonna look bad. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m tempted to like take a piece of sandpaper to the back the very first day I have it and just give it like a smooth coating. Just to be like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just give me like a nice like matte finish here that’s still grippy. The soft

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matte.

⏹️ ▶️ John Then it’ll get slippery again. I think it won’t be grippy anymore. I think part of the gripperiness is the shiniest, kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John like the plastic back of the 5C. I think that’s, so don’t do that. It’ll happen naturally on its own.

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iPhone 7: Water resistance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s slash ATP. Betterment, investing made better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So next on the list of 10, water and dust resistant, which is one of the things that was spilled

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by Apple’s own tweets earlier in the presentation. So I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the term handy but now it is meeting like IP67,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something along those lines, that means that if I remember correctly, you can submerge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it not very deep for up to a half an hour and it should work just fine,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is excellent. I’m really excited about that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s an improvement for everyone. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it’s, you know, they, you can tell like a lot of the changes they’ve made this year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are to, and we’ll get to the other ones in a minute, but a lot of the changes they’ve made this year are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to reduce the ways in which people’s iPhones can fail or get killed basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Reduce the number of moving parts, of parts that can get crap stuck in them or cables bent in them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever else. And this is just one other way. Clearly Apple looks at its

⏹️ ▶️ Marco repair data from the Genius Bar and warranty claims and everything. Clearly they know anything you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do to get to keep dust and water, especially water, out, you will do wonders in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prolonging the lifetime of these devices and making people happier with them. I disagree

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with some of the reasons they’ve chosen to remove things like the headphones, jack but the result here is you know pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good that now I don’t have to worry if I get my phone really wet to the point where like as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Phil showed on stage like somebody falling in a pool with a phone in their pocket or like I think the more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pedestrian horrible version of this is dropping your phone in the toilet but there’s lots of ways

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people can inadvertently submerge their phone briefly in water that used to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most likely kill it and now most of the time or all the time basically won’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t believe they didn’t do the obvious demo. I wonder if it does this in real life. Remember in the watch thing where they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, we sealed up all the openings? So they did the same graphic for the phone. We sealed up all the openings, now it’s even more water

⏹️ ▶️ John resistant, and now the phone is water resistant, except for of course we couldn’t seal up the speaker. So our solution here

⏹️ ▶️ John is that when water gets in the speaker after you end the workout, we push the water out of the speaker. Well, the

⏹️ ▶️ John one opening that they left aside from the speakers on the phone that has been known to have problems is

⏹️ ▶️ John the lightning connector. So what they should have done is, we recommend once a month that you put your phone in the water and then

⏹️ ▶️ John the Taptic Engine will eject the water and all the scum that’s gotten in there. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you don’t, because speaking of Genius Bar,

⏹️ ▶️ John like that has to be one of the major reasons people go to the Genius Bar, oh, it’s not charging anymore, I can’t get the

⏹️ ▶️ John connector all the way in, it says this accessory is not made for this device, all the different problems that basically

⏹️ ▶️ John boil down to you have pocket lint in your lightning port, let me pick it out with this pointy little tool. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John If it’s water resistant, And if the Taptic Engine is right behind it, this is like a self-cleaning type of thing where

⏹️ ▶️ John it should be able to, it needs a medium, so it’ll probably get some water, but like eject the content. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John every once in a while, your phone just like sneezes and ejects all the scum that’s in there. That

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey would be amazing. Watch for that in the next version

⏹️ ▶️ John of the iPhone. They did it in the watch. Anyway, that’s what I was thinking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can you imagine Phil explaining this feature?

⏹️ ▶️ John We call it iPuke. know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But that would be really useful because people’s phones and mine included we they always fill up with crap like I have to take

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like some kind of like pointy prod tool or often just a paper clip and scrape out all the pocket

⏹️ ▶️ Marco link that I’d like to consider maybe every three or four months.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll tell you I’ve still never had to do that but I know that I am an outlier

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco towards

⏹️ ▶️ John all the other people I know with this phone including my own parents everyone else seems to have to do this but not me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the chat room has given us the real-time follow-up we needed. It is IP67

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the phones should be able to survive immersion in up to 3.2 feet of water,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is one meter, for up to 30 minutes. So basically, don’t go deeper than about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a yard or a meter and don’t leave it there for very long and you should be good to go. And that’s super

⏹️ ▶️ Casey awesome. Don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John try to take underwater pictures with it, by the way. That’s what it comes down to. If you drop it in the water, it’ll be fine,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But don’t like, I’m going to take it swimming and take movies underwater for an hour. Nope, don’t do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As the tipster puts so eloquently in the chat, it can survive me. JS Wow. CW Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey JS Jerks. When we were going through our list of 10, I accidentally skipped

⏹️ ▶️ Casey number two. Water and dust resistance was number three. And coincidentally, one of the ways

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that they got to water and dust resistance was by swapping out the home button, and it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t really a button anymore. It’s a not piece of glass necessarily,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s kind of like the new track pads that that Marco is so in love with. And now it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all just smoke and mirrors and the Taptic Engine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Straight out of Dune, buttoning without moving. A

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey reference that

⏹️ ▶️ John you guys don’t get. Nope. That’s fine. Anyway, it doesn’t move. It’s a button that doesn’t move. We have a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of buttons that don’t move on our Macs. We’re totally used to buttons that don’t move. The screen is filled with buttons that don’t move.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the home button doesn’t move anymore, but it’s still got a little indentation so it’s nice that

⏹️ ▶️ John you could find it. Yeah. We’ll see how it is. Marco’s

⏹️ ▶️ John least favorite non-moving trackpad is the one on the smallest device, and I’m assuming that’s because on the really small

⏹️ ▶️ John MacBook One, the Taptic Engine can’t give the bump that he needs to feel like he’s pressing something.

⏹️ ▶️ John I imagine that problem will also exist in the very tiny phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it’s worse than that even. I mean, if you look at the impressions that the hands-on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people have of it, they all basically say, it actually doesn’t feel anything like the Force Touch trackpads,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it doesn’t feel button like at all that you know it the opinions vary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between the people who were there about whether they like it or not but the but the overwhelming consensus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that it does not feel like you’re clicking a button at all it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t fool you like the trackpad can fool you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know it’s the way to describe it sounds a lot more like the Apple Watch is tapping engine where like you push

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard on something and it vibrates but it doesn’t feel like you just clicked a button for real yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s another thing I think I’ll have to try before I actually pull the trigger on the 7s you know I’m not I’m not gonna pre-order

⏹️ ▶️ John one I’m not gonna order one side unseen I’m gonna wait you know same stuff I usually do let people get the crappy first

⏹️ ▶️ John batch that has all the problems and go into the Apple Store and try it I think no matter how bad it is I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John get over it because again honestly the the current home button on my 6 that goes in and out

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not a super big fan of that one it sometimes it bothers me especially when I’m using my iPad my new iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John frequently especially with stupid iOS 10 with the little press the button to unlock I don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ John press the button. I just want it to unlock like it used to. Anyway, I’ll get used to it. But pressing

⏹️ ▶️ John in, especially when I’ve got it on my lap on my bed or something, I like being able to sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John graze my fingers across the surface of the screen, except when I realize, oh, I want to go

⏹️ ▶️ John back to the home screen. Then I have to actually press really hard on the thing. Now, Force Touch probably doesn’t get rid of that hard pressing,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you know, maybe it’ll feel better that nothing moves in. I don’t know. I totally

⏹️ ▶️ John defer to everyone in the hands-on area and the fact that it’s been split at this point probably means that

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not a slam dunk home run, but I might not be bothered by it. But as with so many things,

⏹️ ▶️ John as we’ll get to later, this just feels like an inevitability where Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, Apple gave all the examples. We remove moving parts from our products because overall

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s better for reliability and you’ll get used to it. And I think all that is true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Isn’t the tapping engine and moving part that dies constantly,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s inside the thing Like it’s not, you don’t get to, it’s a sealed unit. Like it’s not, is it

⏹️ ▶️ John not a moving part that you get to move, we move it?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See this is like, I really, we’ll get to this more. I really fundamentally disagree with the justification

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this is the inevitable future. Of course we’re moving to get rid of all this stuff. Really?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is that really inevitable? Like I think in a lot of these cases that’s not really a valid argument

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or that’s not a complete argument.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this podcast, Marco, called hypercritical, but this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John guy who hosted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it used to talk about the naked robotic core of different devices. And I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say we’re moving closer and closer to that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, we have volume buttons. We have

⏹️ ▶️ John the silent button. I was thinking of the volume buttons, right. Why do the volume buttons still move? And when I was thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John about why the volume button and the power button, why do the volume buttons and the power button still move? When I was thinking about that, I was thinking of my

⏹️ ▶️ John very weird rumply and pimply leather case for my iPhone 6, which by the way, someone in the chat room tells me that the 6S

⏹️ ▶️ John cases are actually manufactured differently, supposedly, I assume better. But anyway, when

⏹️ ▶️ John I use my iPhone 6 in the leather case, and I operate the volume controls

⏹️ ▶️ John and the power button through this rumply leather case, they might as well not move. I can’t even tell

⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re moving. I essentially just apply pressure to the bulges that are on the outside of the case, and

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m pretty much fine with applying pressure to the bulges. I can’t really feel them move underneath my

⏹️ ▶️ John fingers but I don’t have to apply that much pressure. If they made the volume buttons and the power

⏹️ ▶️ John buttons not move but feel the same as they do on my leather case I

⏹️ ▶️ John think I would be fine with that too. So maybe I’m gonna be in the camp that that doesn’t mind it but the inevitability

⏹️ ▶️ John is just like moving parts break and get crap wedged in them and are bad

⏹️ ▶️ John for waterproofing and it’s not you get used to not having them. Like it’s possible to make

⏹️ ▶️ John a good physical user interface with something that doesn’t move or doesn’t move that much.

⏹️ ▶️ John As we’ve seen like the the Force Touch trackpads, they do flex. They don’t move, they don’t go up and down, but they do actually

⏹️ ▶️ John flex if you were to look at with a microscope. They do actually bend and flex. Maybe if they gave the

⏹️ ▶️ John home button a little bit of give. Again I think we talked about this when we were talking about the Force Touch trackpad of the F-16, the

⏹️ ▶️ John the control stick, that doesn’t move that much. It moves a little bit. They originally,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think we went through this in this follow-up, but we’re just gonna repeat same freaking follow-up like the control stick normally when you play

⏹️ ▶️ John control a control stick like in a flight simulator game or an airplane you move it up down left and right well

⏹️ ▶️ John in the f-16 the flight stick is not in between your legs but it’s to the side

⏹️ ▶️ John and I think they originally made it so it didn’t move at all but it was totally weird for like pilots to just apply

⏹️ ▶️ John pressure and not have moved so then they made it move a little bit but in general it doesn’t move as much so you’re mostly just applying

⏹️ ▶️ John pressure I think that kind of happy medium can make for a really good efficient user interface

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe they just have instruct the right balance here. And when they come out with the eight, they will enhance it. The

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, the worst case scenario is the rumored eight. They keep mocking up, which is actually no

⏹️ ▶️ John button. Like it’s just a completely smooth surface. You can’t even feel where it is and it gives as much

⏹️ ▶️ John as the screen gives. And again, we all use buttons that don’t give it all on the screen all the time

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re fine with it. But the home button is like the last bastion of like I can pull the thing out of my pocket and feel around to unlock

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone. I think they can’t they can’t really give that up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m curious to see how it feels. Very, very curious. I feel like every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple device that I’ve owned that has a home button over the year to two years that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I use it, the home button just feels less and less crisp over time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even though they’ve always worked. Like I’ve never had a catastrophic failure of my home button. It just feels kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of gross after a long time. And if this prevents that because nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is actually moving, I’m all for it. I mean, I’m a little worried based on the reviews like Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was talking about, but in principle, sounds good to me. Also real-time follow-up,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey IP67. It turns out that actually IP is ingress protection.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then the six and seven are how much dust protection you can get from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey zero to six, six being the most, and how much liquid protection you have between

⏹️ ▶️ Casey zero and 9K, where six, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sorry, seven is the immersion up to one meter in depth. The two remaining options are immersion, one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey meter or more depth, and 9K is powerful high temperature water jets. So I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guess if you wanted to bring it in like a hot tub or something like that, which I did not know, I thought that was kind of cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anything else on home button design, water dust resistance, anything before the camera?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It all remains to be seen in practice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, very much so. But I mean, so far this is sounding really good. I mean, these are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey incremental updates, but I dig it. I’m looking forward to it. All right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Captain Negative. I just, I really don’t like force touch, that’s it. Like I, everyone says

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this one’s different from other ones. So hey, maybe I could like this one a lot because it’s not like the other ones. Who knows? We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I really think that if you weren’t told that you were trying a force touch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey track pad for the first time, now you’ve been ruined for life. But for the first time, if you tried

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on a MacBook Pro and not a MacBook, and you weren’t told beforehand, I really think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would never be able to know the difference especially if it was cranked up to maximum touchiness,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know what, but maximum intensity. I really don’t think you could tell, but now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’ve seen the arrow in the FedEx logo and you are forever ruined. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So let’s talk cameras.

iPhone 7: Cameras

⏹️ ▶️ Casey First, and most importantly to me, as someone who does not think he’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus club, optical image stabilization on the iPhone 7, two thumbs up for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey F1.8 aperture instead of, I think it was 2.2 before, is that right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I believe that’s what Dan Sturm had said to me on Twitter. So a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wider aperture, which is really kind of exciting. The lens that I have for my Micro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Four Thirds camera that I spent several hundred dollars on I think can go to maybe 1.4 and we’re talking 1.8

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here. Like I don’t know, I don’t know like you guys do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There is a very important distinction here though and that is that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pairing of aperture to sensor size is the relevant part here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As you make the sensor smaller, the aperture equivalent goes up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like an F 1.8 aperture at the little tiny iPhone sensor size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might have like the background blur capabilities of like an F4 or F 5.6 lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on your size sensor. I don’t know the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John exact ratio for these two,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s like and then like when you, you know, if you have an F 1.8 lens on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your sensor versus an F 1.8 lens on a full frame sensor, the full frame one will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have more more background blur capable based on the others. There’s all these like ratios and everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because of the optics but basically the f1.8 is nice to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know just for the amount of light it’s letting in but for background blur purposes it is not comparable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the numbers you get from yours.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh I did not know that well that’s really interesting but still and I mean it’s fair to say it’s an improvement right I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean it’s it’s certainly not a bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. Oh it’s great yeah I mean the important thing is what Phil said on stage 50%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more light being let in and that is you know that means that you can get at faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shutter speeds or you can get more light collected before you start getting noise issues

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the pictures get all noisy. So yeah, anytime you can increase the aperture to get more light

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in while keeping what you want in focus, that is always a good thing for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the quality of your photos.

⏹️ ▶️ John They didn’t say anything about sensor size. Is this bigger than the previous sensors? I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know if they changed it or mentioned it. I did see that it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco backside illuminated, but I forget whether the 6S was also.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No, that’s been around for a while. I mean, that’s where the

⏹️ ▶️ John rubber meets the road. Like they say a lot of stuff about the lens and the image stabilization, but the bottom line is how big is your sensor and how

⏹️ ▶️ John big is the sensor and how sensitive is it to light? And the Apple has at various times touted both of those. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, we don’t have as many pixels, but the pixels we have gather more light each so you can get better low light photography, right? Or

⏹️ ▶️ John we made the sensor bigger, so now it gathers more light and now they’re making the aperture. Like you just, you

⏹️ ▶️ John gotta get as much light in as you can and you have to be able to collect as much of that

⏹️ ▶️ John light on the largest area. Again, the ideal would be the entire back of the phone as a giant sensor, but that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fantasy tech that doesn’t exist at this point. Or even something like that, what, the Litro thing where you have like a

⏹️ ▶️ John thousand little cameras all collecting the light field and doing all the crap. Like, like we said on

⏹️ ▶️ John the shows, we were talking about my big fancy camera. There are environments, primarily indoors or at night or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever, where you’re never gonna get a good shot with an iPhone with its tiny,

⏹️ ▶️ John tiny sensor with the current technology of light gathering. And so that’s why these big cameras

⏹️ ▶️ John for most people’s lives, you take a lot of pictures indoors and they’re going to be dotty or they’re going to be blurry and they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to be noisy. And this, you know, there’s nothing you can do about it. And if you look at anyone’s

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of social media feed, people take tons of pictures with their phones in dark environments

⏹️ ▶️ John and they look terrible. Eventually, they will not look terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John Every little advance, every every extra bit of light we’re able to claw out of the environment and gather on a sensor

⏹️ ▶️ John means we’re getting better and so Apple continues to claw up that slope

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’ll get to the the whole you know dual camera angle they’re trying to pitch here but as

⏹️ ▶️ John far as the 7 is concerned I think this is a significant advancement of the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John but in the grand scheme of things sort of like it’s one of their good years but it’s not a

⏹️ ▶️ John gigantic advancement it is just like one of their good bumps to the camera

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for the camera. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about only I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean this is again this is one of those things that we’re gonna have to see in reviews and in practice how it actually turns out because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know they’ll they’ll say whatever they want on stage and you know every every iPhone has the best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera we’ve ever put into an iPhone you know like so that’s you know of course it got better we won’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how much better for you know until until we get these things but it it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure did sound like it was it was a good year for it. So I mean, you know, even with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco single camera model without going into the giant one yet, it sure does seem like it’s a good year for it. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is a pretty notable aperture improvement. That is a substantial,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, lens optics, you know, count of having the six elements

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything is like it sounds good and the optical image stabilization is good. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll see how this turns out, but it’s probably a pretty good upgrade year, even for the regular seven

⏹️ ▶️ Marco non plus.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is one of the factors in me wind up grippers remember. I have a six not a success so this is a huge leap over the six

⏹️ ▶️ John and As I do find myself taking a lot of pictures of my six because the camera is not

⏹️ ▶️ John that terrible I would love to be able to take pictures in slightly more challenging environment so this if you have

⏹️ ▶️ John a six this is a Definitely a reason to get this phone just your pictures will come out much better because a two-year

⏹️ ▶️ John advancement is big if you have a success I don’t know. I think it’s someone’s gonna do comparison tests

⏹️ ▶️ John and show show me the practical practical realities of single camera 7 versus single camera

⏹️ ▶️ John 6s, especially the 6s plus, which is my wife’s phone. I’m not sure how big of a jump that’s going to be, but

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re making progress. They’re doing all the right things other than the bulge is still there, but I think they’ve just

⏹️ ▶️ John given up on that now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also notable is the inclusion of the wide color gamut photo shooting, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is something that is very hard to find and do well in other cameras.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They exist sometimes or they have different color profiles. They they can use, but dealing with that is kind of a pain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the butt. And so to have this be built in and just all your photos shot on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone are just going to have wide gamut support and you’re going to view them on the iPhone, which itself also has wide gamut support

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on its display and it’ll just work. That’s awesome. And that is not an easy thing to do and that’s pretty good. The other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing to mention with the both camera capabilities thing is raw shooting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is, I really am going to be interested to see how this turns out. The idea here is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a very quick overview, most photos you get out of most cameras are JPEGs. The camera has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco done some processing to interpret the raw sensor data from the sensor to apply

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like normalizing colors and white balance and sharpening,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually more sharpening and contrast boosting than you might realize, basically to try to make every photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look good. to apply slight processing if there’s flaws in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lens, if the lens has slight barrel distortion or slight vignetting where the corners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t capture quite as much light as the middle, things like that, those will all be corrected in that same procedure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you convert from the raw sensor data to the JPEG that you then store in storage of the person.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco High-end cameras for a long time have offered the ability to save raw files, which basically just skips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that processing or defers it to later and saves onto the flash card.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the actual raw sensor data, which is massive. And then to view those and process them requires

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your computer or whatever else to do all that conversion and generation and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The advantage to that is that if you, usually the advantage to that, not only is like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want to do less messing with the original data and you wanna like do that in your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco own controlled way to do it either differently or to do less or more of it. There’s also other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco major advantages like JPEGs have a certain limit of how much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dynamic range they can apply or they can they can represent. So like what what the difference is between 100%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco white and 100% black. JPEG has you know just like a certain limit of how much precision can be stored

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. So there’s a limit of how much dynamic range you can store in a JPEG. RAW it doesn’t have any kind of inherent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limit there. It’s basically whatever the sensor can represent. So if you’re if you have areas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the picture that are blown out that are bright white and you want to like pull some detail out of there or if you have areas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that are just black and like there might be some detail there and those shadows that you might that you might want to pull out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can do that much more effectively with raw files because what if that data was on the sensor at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all it’s still there and you can process that and you can you can get a lot of a lot of detail out of that way more than you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can out of just processing a JPEG because the JPEG already had all the like very very fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco granularity thrown away in in the processing step to make it from from the sensor to a JPEG in the first place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also there’s things like white balance on a raw is a lossless operation. So you can tweak

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the white balance and colors as much as you want on a raw file and it’s not actually like destructively editing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in any way and you don’t lose anything by doing that. So raw files are great for pro photographers. They’re a bit of a pain to work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with. They’re really huge but they allow you a lot of flexibility. Now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a camera like this, you might think, wow this is gonna be great. I can’t wait

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have that kind of flexibility on my iPhone photos. The problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though is that when you get to a very, very tiny sensor like this, with a very tiny lens that sells for something like $40, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever the part is, the camera on the phone is a very, very constrained

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera in both size and cost. So chances are the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco processing that the iPhone does to make its JPEGs is really necessary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make them look good. Chances are that it’s doing a lot of corrections to things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you, like Basically, I question whether there’s any more quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be had from the RAWs on iOS, on iPhones, because Apple is really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good at this kind of processing. They’re probably doing the best they reasonably can with their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco own built-in processing. So the idea of somebody else being able to tweak more data from those RAW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco files, I think, is possible, but unlikely. And what it’s more likely to be is just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco larger, slower-to-process images that don’t have all the nice balancing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and contrast and sharpness and lens corrections that the built in ones will have. So again, we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see how that goes.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think there’s a headroom there. I think they hinted at it was showing the light room demo is that

⏹️ ▶️ John if you really want to, you know, the way I think of the raw to JPEG thing is that going from raw JPEG is a

⏹️ ▶️ John lossy operation. You have to pick an exposure level. And if you pick an exposure level where all where

⏹️ ▶️ John this all these shadows are black or all these highlights are blown out to white, you’re never going to get any new information out of that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Black is black and white is white. Whereas if you still have the RAW and if you have it in a program like

⏹️ ▶️ John Lightroom, you can pick a particular shadow area and expose that differently

⏹️ ▶️ John to pull out detail from the shadows over there, but then in these highlights over here expose it differently. Like you can actually,

⏹️ ▶️ John because the RAW sensor data is behind there, treat different areas of the photo differently based on the subject matter.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you’re right that you will have to reapply all the stuff that Apple does, particularly probably noise reduction

⏹️ ▶️ John in anything that doesn’t have really bright light because it’s going to be noisy on a little sensor.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I assume the ability to basically process the image

⏹️ ▶️ John in more or less the same way Apple does it will be available to third parties, and then on top of

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s all just like what do you want to do artistically speaking to this particular photo. So I think you will

⏹️ ▶️ John be able to pull out shadow detail and highlight stuff if you’re willing to put in the time to

⏹️ ▶️ John treat different images of the area differently. I think you’re right that the compromise for the entire image is probably Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John probably doing the best you know you can imagine but the option

⏹️ ▶️ John the option makes sense and I think it opens up the market for applications

⏹️ ▶️ John more serious photography applications on the phones especially if I mean you didn’t mention anything about

⏹️ ▶️ John 4k 60 frames per second it’s not their video Right. But so it will be in a few years

⏹️ ▶️ John and that will open it up for, you know, for video apps and video editing and stuff like that. So anyway, I, I encourage

⏹️ ▶️ John anything that gives these iOS devices more of a, of a pro bent. And I think this is

⏹️ ▶️ John a move in that direction. Of course, it also means that you just fill up your photo allocation even faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the other thing too, you know, if Apple really works on this like full stack, which they probably should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and probably will, um, what this will, What this could also enable, depending on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how well they do it, is this could just enable the built-in editing controls in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Photos app. If there’s a setting somewhere that says, like, always shoot in RAW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something like that, if you can get that in the Photos app, then the Photos app could itself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep doing over and over again all the cool Apple processing stuff as you adjust

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the various sliders and things to edit the RAW. So if you have, as you said, if you have a different opinion of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what the highlights and shadows should be and what the white balance should be, you can have all that being done non-destructively

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the RAW and still have all that processing done on the way out to view it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to display and to disk.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not quite that simple though because Rene Ritchie tweeted earlier, presumably because he was briefed by Apple, the camera app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shoots JPEG. Only third-party apps can do RAW. That’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, hopefully in the future that might be a setting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John the setting is called fill my phone five times faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, look, they have a setting for video quality. By default, the iPhone 6S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could shoot 4K and does a pretty good job of it, but that’s not on by default. By default, it’s 1080p, I think, might even be 1080p 30, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can also do 1080p 60 and 4K 30. And 4K is about a gig a minute at their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit rates. So you figure they’re selling a 16 gig phone that can shoot a gig a minute

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worth of video, that’s kind of a problem. so it’s disabled by default,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s still an option for those of us who bought the 128, right? So like, you know, it was option number, but you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s more practical for people with the bigger phones. This is the same kind of thing. If they wanna sell these big phones, here’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a reason. Here’s a way that like power users will want to buy the bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone so they can do this. So absolutely, this is the kind of thing that they hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will do in the future because it seems weird to have that capability and to only let third-party apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it and to not do anything with your own built-in photos app that everybody uses and that has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lossless editing controls.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’ll just add an SD card slot, don’t worry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. We should also talk about Phil’s extra credit project, which was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey depth of field adjustments and enhancements by way of the magic of software in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 7Plus’s two lens camera system, or two camera system.

⏹️ ▶️ John Before we get to the depth of field thing, We just talk about the two cameras on their own merits before the software update

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not even gonna be out when the phones are out right so the two cameras by themselves is you have two choices You can

⏹️ ▶️ John take from this camera or from that camera and one of them is zoomed in twice as much as the other Which is nice.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s pretty straightforward I was looking for maybe a little bit more magic which they kind of delivered on in their extra credit assignment

⏹️ ▶️ John But essentially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well there actually there is some magic in that it appears that you can zoom smoothly between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those two focal lengths as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I think it was it was just tap from 1x to 2x and slide from 2x to 10x but that’s all software

⏹️ ▶️ John after that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is that is how I heard it as well as what John is describing that 1 to 2 is a jump and after after 2

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a gradient.

⏹️ ▶️ John You might be right. I mean they don’t have they could do a smooth slide they just go here’s here’s here’s the 1x image and

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll software scale until you get to 1.999 and then I’ll switch the other camera but the bottom line is you have two different cameras

⏹️ ▶️ John presumably both have equally high quality sensors they’re just one is telephoto as they

⏹️ ▶️ John said and one of them is wide-angle and that alone even if that was the only feature they had is that

⏹️ ▶️ John you have two choices of two different cameras it’s nice because the default one is like wide angle is you want to

⏹️ ▶️ John take a picture of a group of friends or whatever but every once in a while you see you see this a lot of like parents

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to take pictures of kids at like assemblies or camp things or whatever and you know they’re so far away they’re holding

⏹️ ▶️ John up their phone in the audience you know Their kid is gonna be a spec because it’s a wide-angle lens in there. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John towards the middle or the back There’s no way they’re gonna even be able to recognize their kids face if they had a 2x zoom

⏹️ ▶️ John on that That would go a long way towards them being able to recognize where a little Timmy is in the picture So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a great idea. And hey, the the 7 plus is gigantic. You have plenty of room on the back You’ve already got a wart

⏹️ ▶️ John there Why not make it a double wart? Hell put five cameras on there at five different zoom levels like just keep

⏹️ ▶️ John adding cameras along the top of it at different zoom levels This is a little bit barbaric.

⏹️ ▶️ John It will be looked back on as like, remember when we couldn’t do the entire back of the camera as a sensor? And instead

⏹️ ▶️ John we just kept adding more cameras. But for now I think it’s a it’s a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John compromise. And then what I was looking for after that is, okay, you got the two cameras. That’s good. They

⏹️ ▶️ John are good for all the things they’re good at. What kind of magic can you do with these two cameras

⏹️ ▶️ John when they work together? And the The magic is not shipping on release and

⏹️ ▶️ John not that amazing, especially in light of the light field cameras and all that other stuff where they’re like, we just

⏹️ ▶️ John gather all the light and do these amazing things in software. Apple has less ambitious

⏹️ ▶️ John goals, but I think the result will be a little bit better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So real time follow up. Serendy Caldwell has said, you can absolutely pinch or really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey scroll to zoom between each lens but the button allows you to be specific.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. Right, but like I said, I think all it’s doing is software zooming the one until it gets to actual two and then it switches like it would

⏹️ ▶️ John be fun to play with that and go like get it up to 1.99 and switch it to and watch it all of a sudden get clearer, you know, because then it

⏹️ ▶️ John goes to the other line. Just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like put your finger over one of the lenses and just like see when it switches.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s an interesting point. I didn’t think of it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way. That’s funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, no, I mean, so this is this is going to be great. Like this is one of the reasons why I’m most likely here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the plus that I want this and And like, I love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shooting photos with my iPhone, like many people do. I shoot tons of photos with my iPhone. I shoot most of my photos with my iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To have there be finally like a new optic to it, that’s built in, that’s always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. You know, you’ve always been able to get little like bolt-on lenses that you like, slide on somehow,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or that rest there, clip on or something, and they’re okay, but it’s never as good as having the built-in one that’s always there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So to have this additional lens on there is gonna be great. My only little nitpick,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, with me there’s always a nitpick is that I do kind of wish it was a little bit more zoomed in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they so the the regular lens that’s always been there I had said a few episodes back that it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 35 millimeter equivalent most of the time that was wrong it’s actually a 28 millimeter equivalent and most recent models

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so the new one being twice that is a 56 millimeter equivalent which they said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the presentation and that is and and so it’s similar to a 50

⏹️ ▶️ Marco millimeter lens that many people have used but only on full frame if you if If you’ve used a 50mm lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on a Rebel or a smaller camera that’s not full frame, it’s actually more zoomed in than what you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting with the iPhone. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kept calling it a telephoto, but I don’t know any photographer who would describe a 56mm lens as a telephoto

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens. That is a medium lens or a normal lens. The 28mm that you normally get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it is a wide. So anyway, they now have a wide and a normal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do wish they would have gone a little further, maybe given like an 85 millimeter equivalent, that would have been great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because as you get a little further into that range, it starts looking a lot nicer for portraits

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just pictures of people in general. The more you get in there, the better it looks generally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You have to like take a couple steps back sometimes, but it’s usually worth it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hopefully they will move in that direction. I mean, in my wildest dreams, heck, I had a third one. You know, as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you were saying, John, you got like camera one camera to go below it at a giant a giant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like circle that’s as wide as both of those there put give me like a 135 there or something like that would be amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John gonna happen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you know physics is kind of a problem here in a number of ways, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know to have to have something a little more zoomed in would be nice also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the 56 millimeter lens I believe it has a lower aperture than the wide

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones I believe on the side it said it was an f 2.8 so the the zoomed in lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be worse at low light situations and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether it can perform or whether it whether it can produce genuine background blur which we’ll get to in a minute

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is it’s not going to be as good as if it were f 1.8 but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is more zoomed in basically the more zoomed in you are the focal length wise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the more background blur you you can tend to produce especially if your subject is fairly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco close to you. So the the formula for background blur usually is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco subject very close to you and also using a very long lens like a very zoomed in lens. That’s how you get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blur and you can actually get blur on today’s iPhones. On every iPhone basically you can get some background

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blur if you have something close up enough. Like you gotta be pretty close because it’s a pretty wide lens on a little phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensor but if you put something really close to your iPhone you will get a blurred background if the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco background is far enough away from you. So anyway, new dual lens camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing just for the sake of photography, just basic photography, that is awesome and the ability to very quickly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco switch the fact that it isn’t only a pinch zoom, the fact that you can just hit that little button and it toggles to 2x, that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco awesome and I will probably use that a lot. So you’re going plus club? I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so, for that reason alone. The blur thing they show, so let’s talk about the blur

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing, you want to intro that?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I certainly can. But before I do, John, are you going Plus Club? No. Come on.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so I went back and forth on this and I’m pretty sure, and we’ll talk about why

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a moment, I am not going Plus Club either. So before this,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey before the presentation today, there was a lot of debate, especially because of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey invitation that Apple had sent, A lot of debate over whether or not the Plus

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with its supposed two-camera system that we now know is real, if it would be able to provide

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some really, really good bokeh. And I think we’ve talked about this in the past, but bokeh is that background blur that Marco was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just talking about. So it’s where you have- Please email Casey. Yeah, please email me. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it typically, and I’m oversimplifying, but typically this is with a portrait, although not necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey always, where you have, you know, the person relatively close to you, like Marco was just describing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then the background is considerably more blurry. You know, hopefully the person is not blurry

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at all, and the background is very blurry. And people were saying beforehand that this 7

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Plus will be able to give you legitimate, honest-to-goodness visual

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bokeh, or that background blur. You can play those depth the field tricks. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Phil said he gave his engineers an extra credit problem. And the extra credit problem was,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want to see Boca like you get out of a DSLR or equivalent. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of the reasons I bought my Micro Four Thirds was because I wanted to be able to do the same sort of thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want to be able to see that coming out of an iPhone. And so coming later this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey year, I believe they said, certainly later in an iOS 10 update,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 7 Plus users will be able to do a portrait mode in the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app that will synthesize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the background blurring and give you synthetic bokeh.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really admire what they’re doing here. is really impressive and I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think they’re on the right track to something really awesome. But the fact that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s totally synthetic, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John That’s not that’s why it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John the right track. The right track is to be able to pull that off optically like eventually with

⏹️ ▶️ John the again mythical sensor that is the entire back of your camera with the just light field gathering and Bob like

⏹️ ▶️ John to fake it. It’s like it’s like you would take a picture and then give it to the to top of Zerian told

⏹️ ▶️ John him pretend the background was blurred and like have them go in and mask out the part like I mean it’s doing more than that because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not just give me a flat image let me find the people and blur the background because that would be awful I think it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ John using the dual cameras to do it to make a depth map so it figures out like it’s picking a focal distance

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s trying to make a depth map by I’m assuming using like stereo vision from the two cameras and figuring out what’s close and what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John far by like you know how far the images diverge from each other or whatever making a depth map and then

⏹️ ▶️ John picking its focal plane and then saying anything behind that, then just applying like a blur filter

⏹️ ▶️ John to the stuff that is behind it in these focal planes. And I guess that can look okay

⏹️ ▶️ John in the shots, but honestly, I think that the photos they chose to show us off were bad photos to show it off with.

⏹️ ▶️ John The backgrounds were so sort of bland that the blur didn’t show anything. Like, why didn’t they do foliage?

⏹️ ▶️ John Foliage is like the go-to, right? It’s green with splotches of yellow with the light going through it, and

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s that’s what you want to see the blur on and they didn’t show any of those for like a sky

⏹️ ▶️ John a gray sky with a suspension bridge and then a couple of lights which I guess are pretty standard like the imitation

⏹️ ▶️ John had lights in them and I had that person standing in front of a light field but I was not all that

⏹️ ▶️ John impressed with the shots and I worry that as this fake algorithm tries to make

⏹️ ▶️ John these depth maps and then just like does gaussian blur in the back it’s gonna look like that that it’s gonna look like a picture

⏹️ ▶️ John that a computer found the edges of your head and then blurred everything behind it. And that’s I’m not looking for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. Well, because that’s exactly what’s happening. And you know, this is not new. You’ve been able to get apps on the app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco store. Instagram does this. You know, that’s why I thought it was kind of funny, like to have Instagram there to say, oh, we can’t wait to use all this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new stuff. It’s like Instagram’s existing app has a background blur feature that does this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there’s, of course, lots of others. But

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s got to work on 2D. It’s not it doesn’t have the advantage of the depth feel. So presumably the depth feel it’s not you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have the problem of like edge detection around their heads because you actually kind have an idea because like in an actual

⏹️ ▶️ John camera shot with depth of field the focal plane that the things that are actually

⏹️ ▶️ John sharp are actually pretty narrow and so like the person’s ears could start to be a little bit blurry because they’re farther back than their eyeballs

⏹️ ▶️ John or their nose right and so you can’t just find the edges of their hair and then blur everything behind it yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John so the depth thing does give them an advantage when they showed that expansion like how many depth levels is finding and really

⏹️ ▶️ John how much depth can you find from two cameras that are within millimeters of each other right It’s a challenging problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John I always wonder if like it could have gone 3ds style and have the two cameras be separated more widely to get better depth

⏹️ ▶️ John on it. But honestly, the only like fake it till you make it sure, but eventually you should make

⏹️ ▶️ John it which is do it for real with actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco light. Yeah, because the problem is the way they’re doing so, you know, the general

⏹️ ▶️ Marco principle here of find the subject, keep that in focus,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then the rest of the background apply, you know, a basic blur image filter to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s that that approach has been around for a while and and the new thing they’re doing as you said, like they’re they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve made advancements here in finding the subject like defining the edges of the subject, defining

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the area that will be sharp and then blurring everything else like that part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve made advances on. But this whole technique of take a regular photo that doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good background blur because it doesn’t have shallow depth of field in practice and and blur the parts that are supposed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be blurred in software. The whole problem with this approach is that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resulting picture, like that’s not how real background blur looks. If you do that technique,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if you do that technique perfectly, even if you perfectly define which exact pixels in the frame

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are supposed to be sharp and which ones are supposed to have the blur effect applied to them, it still doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look right because that isn’t how that actually looks in practice. Like the, the, the regular like image blur effect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not producing the same look you get from the out of focus areas in a shallow depth of field photo.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it never looks right. And I agree, I think the photos they picked, they didn’t really do themselves a lot of favors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. I don’t think those are very good examples. And if that’s the best they could come up with, that might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not be a good sign for the usefulness of this feature or the overall quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John One thing it did show off is I thought it did show like you could see like their cheekbones were in focus but their ears were a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit out of focus. That showed the, hey, we’re using depth, we’re not just doing edge detection because you couldn’t do that with the filters.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They actually weren’t using depth properly. Like if you actually look, if you see, like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can look at certain areas of some of the photos and you can say, you know, this, because in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco real photography, there’s a plane of what is in focus. And that plane

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not actually perfectly flat, it’s actually curved because that’s optics and physics, but anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a plane of what’s in focus. So generally speaking, it’s close to flat for most purposes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So generally speaking, you know, if if you are, if somebody has like, you know, to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two things on their face, like let’s say like, you know, like their their eyelash and their chin, like two things that are like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same depth away from the camera, like if one’s in focus, the other should be in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco focus. And that’s an Apple’s test photos even had flaws like in that kind of logic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It just it didn’t. And also I thought one thing I noted on Twitter in the time, I thought that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever is defined as the subject in focus, the edges of that, like in the in the in the one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was the portrait of the guy, his shoulders like or his ears like they they should have been in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco focus based on what was being shown and how it was supposed to be, basically what it was simulating,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the edges should have been in focus there and they weren’t. And so like they’re like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not saying like every that average people are going to you know notice that necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and be able to nitpick on these little things like that. But I think people do generally notice like, hey, that doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that that looks fake or that looks like a filter. You know, that doesn’t look real.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that I think people do notice that they

⏹️ ▶️ John should save the I don’t know if they maybe they’re doing this because we don’t know. We don’t have the thing into shipping later. But if they

⏹️ ▶️ John say if they took the picture and saved either the JPEG and the raw plus also save the depth field,

⏹️ ▶️ John that would let you say, look, here’s the regular picture you took. And if you want, you can try this effect, but it’s basically lossless.

⏹️ ▶️ John Having to choose at the time, even if you just save the JPEG with the depth field, you can still apply

⏹️ ▶️ John it after the fact. Having to choose at the time you take the picture, you could, like, I fear for people who accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ John put it into that mode and don’t quite understand where all the pictures are all messed up, like they try to take a picture of a landscape with that thing on and it goes haywire.

⏹️ ▶️ John It would be much better if they just took the best pictures they can, honestly, from the optics and sensors

⏹️ ▶️ John they have. And if you want to be fancy and save a bunch of depth fields and another set of channels

⏹️ ▶️ John and have a fancy app they can apply them selectively and maybe it’ll make some picture look better that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this, this is a nice little trick, you know, it’s fun, people are gonna have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun with it for a little while. But the thing is, if you have a 56 millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco millimeter f 2.8 lens, you probably can get some background blur, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, not as much as you would on a larger sensor with that with those specs. But if you just get a subject close to the lens,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and have a a background that’s not that close to you, you can get blur that’s real optically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, probably not a ton of it, but you can get some. And if they just highlighted that, I think that would have just been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit… I don’t know. I think it would look better. Anyway, it doesn’t matter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean, I really think that this is the easiest way… Well, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a poor choice of words. I really think that having this bokeh-like effect

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the best way to to make someone that is interested in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more prosumer level photography like I am, and I’m getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better at understanding the academia behind it, if you will, but if you had told me like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two years ago, oh, you can get this depth of field effect from your brand new iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it really would have made me think twice about spending $1,500 on a Micro Four Thirds camera and a really nice lens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I really think they’re going in the right direction. I agree that doing this synthetically is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey definitely cheating, but as we’ve all been saying, particularly Gruber

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and M.G. Siegler, we are marching closer and closer toward not necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey needing a DSLR for most people. And that’s a great thing. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s a wonderful thing. One of the biggest drawbacks, however, to this simulated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bokeh is that the way you access it is by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going into the camera app and selecting portrait mode, which implies to me that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been tuned in such a way that it is looking for faces.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think they said a little bit about this during the presentation, but it’s tuned for faces.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t know if it’s really going to work, at least for now, very well with things that aren’t faces.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And there are times, like some of the pictures I’m most proud of, some of them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t include faces. I’ve put in the chat and I will put in the show notes a picture that I took at the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey beach a year or two ago, which has that background blur, but I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know how to phrase this. I deployed it tactically, kind of like you deploy Merlin tactically. Um, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s no faces in this picture. And so how would that work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with this simulated Boca? Would it work? Like this is where I think it all starts to fall well on its face.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, but again, a step in the right direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I appreciated how Phil positioned it during the presentation. I mean, and I didn’t say it earlier, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think Phil was awesome. I think he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearly the highlight of the show. He really had a lot of good stuff to say. He delivered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it well, with one exception, which we’ll get to about the headphone thing. But overall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I liked Phil today a lot. And I think the way he set expectations here was good. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he said right in the keynote that this is not going to replace SLRs,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, for pros. Like this is not going to do that. And that’s really good to hear. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s good to keep expectations realistic and to tone down the hyperbole and stuff because like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you set expectations accordingly, then people will be pleased. But if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say, we’re gonna kill SLRs for pros, or for, you know, for people who really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like shooting real, like real background blurs, stuff like that, If you say that and then your solution

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to that is just software blur, that would be a big disappointment. So they actually did it pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s do our fourth sponsor for this evening.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This was unsolicited, but it’s the right thing to do, and I think we did this last year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Dear friend of the show, Stephen Hackett, his eldest son

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has been affected with childhood cancer, and for the month of September, it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. And so we’ll put a link in the show notes to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a brief post that Stephen put up on his website, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is a really touching post about what it’s like to be the parent of a child with a young child

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with cancer. And so obviously we always like it if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are a patron of any of our sponsors, but I know I speak for all three of us in saying we would really, really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey super mega ultra like it if you could scrape together any amount of money to donate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital, and there’ll be links to all this in the show notes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably in our sponsored buy section. And I’ve donated, Marco’s donated, I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if John has donated yet, but I know I am speaking for him and saying that if he hasn’t, he will. Steve McLaughlin Already did.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John Doyle Oh, there you go. And this is, even though I am lucky enough

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or we are lucky enough not to have children with cancer, it’s still near and dear to Stephen’s heart, and by virtue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it being near and dear to his heart, it’s near and dear to ours. So if you could scrape together even just a couple of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollars and throw it St. Jude’s way, I think all three of us would really appreciate it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Absolutely. This is a reverse sponsor. They’re not giving us money. We’re giving them money.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly. The reverse sponsor.

iPhone 7: False Tone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. So next on the list, Retina HD display. We’ve sort of kind of covered this already.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There is a wide gamut color, no True Tone though, which I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey disappointed by. I’m lucky that I haven’t yet been ruined by seeing a True Tone display, or if I have, it’s been for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seconds. But I was looking forward to getting a True Tone device in my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new iPhone, and as it turns out, not so much.

⏹️ ▶️ John No room for the light sensor. They need to remove another port.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, I was going to to say that. Sorry, lightning port is gone.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, just like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No, they won’t get rid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that because that’s actually given them like lots of income and stuff. No, we’ll get rid of like the volume buttons as you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John said earlier. They’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John get rid of the microphone because no one talks into their phones anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well now we have another solution. You can buy a Bluetooth wireless microphone now for $169. Oh goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, I was disappointed by that. But the display in general, they also said

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was 20% brighter, which is, that’s cool. So I dig it in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey general, but I am sad that there is no True Tone display.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s not OLED. We’re saving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that for next year. Yeah, it did seem like, you know, given how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they usually do things like, all right, you know, first we’re going to introduce this cool new advanced thing on one of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our devices, then it’s going to move to the other ones. Like the fact that you had it on the iPad Pro 9.7

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then to not have it on the on the following flagship iPhone is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is odd you know I think you’re right John it probably was just for like sent like light

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensor space reasons but that is it does seem like an auto mission

⏹️ ▶️ John also lead times I think I imagine the lead times and even though this phone came out after the small iPad Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this phone was probably developed had a longer lead time in development and so that’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of the same reason the 12.5 inch didn’t have the the good the quote unquote good or best display

⏹️ ▶️ John uh even though it was only out only a little bit before like i think it just comes down to lead times and the fact that it’s so tight

⏹️ ▶️ John in there so don’t worry it’ll be on the 10th anniversary phone

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey unless there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John something specific about it in terms of processing and and screen tech that makes it not fit in

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing but i don’t i don’t know of any limitation that just makes it not not compatible with a phone size device

⏹️ ▶️ John for the foreseeable future so i think i expect to see in the next phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey i agree uh next on the list.

iPhone 7: Speakers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, audio, not headphone audio, just audio, audio. And,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, Phil said the new iPhone has stereo speakers, which.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All of us, I think we’re expecting, but all of us were kind of fearful or most of us anyway, that there would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be two speakers on the bottom of the phone, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose, but oh, no, there’s a speaker on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey top and speaker on the bottom, which I’m actually pretty excited for. I listened to, uh, stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off my iPhone semi frequently. I listen to podcasts fairly frequently.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Occasionally I’ll listen to music if I’m too lazy to go turn on my main amplifier in the family room

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or connect to some other speaker system. I actually very rarely listen to any sort of headphone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with my iPhone. We’ll talk about that in a minute. But I’m really excited to have the stereo speakers because occasionally I watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey movies on my iPhone. It doesn’t happen often, but enough that I’m excited about it. And two times the volume,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey heck yes, I am all in on that. Really excited. Genuine. I’m genuinely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited for this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, that’s because like, I mean, I also, I use my iPhone speaker all the time, usually for listening to podcasts, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have, and you know, sometimes like YouTube videos too, and like to have any extra volume there,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially in the podcast use case, is going to be used a lot. People are going to love that. And I think, you know, it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole thing with like, you know, worrying about it being two on one side or whatever, there’s a lot of people who are like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh, well, this, you’re not going to get a lot of stereo separation there. And like, the point of adding more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speakers on a little phone like this, the point is not stereo separation.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is not positional accuracy. It is not like audiophile quality here. I say this as an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audiophile. It is not for this purpose. The main reason that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we would want it and would benefit from it is volume and additional directionality.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like, and if you look at the iPad line, you know, the iPads for years had like that one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dumb speaker on the bottom, like basically, you know, as if they were a giant iPhone, just like having one right in the corner

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. And then in the iPad Pro generation this last year, they basically made it so that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a speaker on all four corners. And they treat it as two with one being the woofer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, it doesn’t matter. The result of this is that iPad speakers now are so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good that compared to what they were before, having just the one on one side, they are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way louder at max volume, also way clearer, just way higher sound quality you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get by just having four drivers working together to produce one set of sound. Basically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can drive them a little bit less harshly and have a little bit less distortion. And then you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them firing now in two directions. And so that helps fill a room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or a space better and more effectively. Or even just around a table or around a chair. It’s better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have it coming out of more sides than just in one direction off to the side.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco On the phone, it’s gonna be a little bit different because what they did was they have the speaker on the bottom in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same place it always was. And the second speaker, they’ve basically, it seems like they’ve just kind of amped up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the earpiece speaker where people’s phone call voice comes out like that up top, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John earpiece

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey speaker.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is the second speaker. Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, there’s no like top grill. Like that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the second speaker is a louder, amped up earpiece speaker. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what remains to be seen basically, you know, what you’re gonna have, If you’re holding the phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in landscape view, with the home button on the right, the way you’d probably watch a YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video or a movie, you basically have one speaker, that’s where the old one always was,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco coming out into your right hand, and the second speaker then is pointing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco towards you from your left thumb. So the sound is coming out at two different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco angles, and it’s coming out from two probably different sounding speakers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they’re not only pointing different directions, but they have different types of enclosures and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ports around them to let the air in and out. So it’s probably gonna sound weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like if you try to treat it sideways like that, I don’t know, I really am interested to see how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is in practice. Where it would be great is things like podcasts and music where you’re laying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the phone down on a table or maybe in your car’s cup holder is a very popular one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Things like that where you’re just putting the phone down somewhere and you just want volume.

⏹️ ▶️ John Your car is cup holder? I don’t understand how you people, like Margot with the audio file, and just anyone

⏹️ ▶️ John in general can tolerate the sound coming out of a phone, even for podcasts.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Even where you can,

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t even, even for podcasts I can’t even understand what they’re saying. Cup holder in a car? Have you ever used

⏹️ ▶️ John Overcast? Man, I fixed this problem. Is the car not running? Maybe you have better, maybe in your electric

⏹️ ▶️ John car with no internal combustion engine or your BMW is better sounding. My iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John playing audio in my running car? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me, I hear from my customers who people do this because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lots of cars don’t have good audio input options.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but it just sounds so terrible, so incredibly terrible. And I think, I mean, the iPad Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John the small iPad Pro with the four speakers, huge upgrade in sound,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and yet still awful,

⏹️ ▶️ John still awful. And so the phone, I totally applaud the extra volume. I think that’s great. Anything you can give to

⏹️ ▶️ John give you more volume with less distortion, so you have a chance of understanding anything, all this is great. but

⏹️ ▶️ John I still think the world’s worst $5 earbuds are better than playing

⏹️ ▶️ John that damn phone on a counter. And I don’t understand how the two of you with your house full of Bluetooth speakers choose to take

⏹️ ▶️ John your phone and chuck it on your kitchen counter instead of just Bluetoothing to a speaker.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John there. Because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as we’ll get to, Bluetooth sucks. That’s why. I have a house full of Bluetooth speakers and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hardly ever use them because they’re a pain in the butt.

⏹️ ▶️ John To each his own. Improvements in sound quality are good. I’m glad the two speakers aren’t next to each

⏹️ ▶️ John other, although it does not give them a convenient excuse for why the headphone port is gone, because guess what, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John replace it with two speakers down there, the other one is up on the top. And the one facing towards you, I think that’s a benefit

⏹️ ▶️ John because everyone has done, I think, the iPhone cup, where you cup your hand to aim the

⏹️ ▶️ John sound at you, and are shocked by what a difference that makes. Having one actually pointed at you, it’s gotta

⏹️ ▶️ John be a big upgrade. So all thumbs up on this. Like, there’s not room in this phone to put giant empty cavities

⏹️ ▶️ John like there is in the iPad Pros, right? So thumbs up on making it better, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I still don’t quite understand. Maybe it’s because I’m getting old and my hearing’s going bad, but I feel like it’s not like unlistenable

⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s terrible, because it is terrible, but like unlistenable in that like, I can’t even understand what people are saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, I have a feature in Overcast that minimizes the distortion when you’re using the speaker. I’ve actually profiled this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and measured

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it.

⏹️ ▶️ John If I ever willingly listened, yes, I know. I’ve used that feature just to see if it made it better, and it does make it

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit better, but it still sounds like garbage.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco So I put my earbuds in. That’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not your fault. The speaker is the size of like a pencil eraser, Not even, it’s terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I actually have very low expectations for the quality that I’m going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get out of the earpiece speaker, just because there’s no room there for porting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or shaping the sound at all, or having a nice wide output port. It’s just a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slit. Maybe they do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the same thing with

⏹️ ▶️ John like you were saying with the iPad, like where they just send certain frequency cutoffs to the,

⏹️ ▶️ John use one as a tweeter or something, who knows? I mean, the biggest thing is volume. You’re right, like

⏹️ ▶️ John double the volume, that’s the headline feature. Sorely needed, everybody loves it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so next on the list, we’ve got four more.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh my God, how long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the show gonna be? Yep. Next on the list.

iPhone 7: Headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple was courageous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they dropped the headphone port. John, can you explain to us why using the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey word courage was a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco interesting choice? Before we get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, can we just marvel at the skill of Apple PR

⏹️ ▶️ Marco during this transition of leaking this to the press like six months ago?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that way we are now over two hours into our podcast talking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the new iPhone event before we even really talked about the headphone jack removal. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John if Apple PR leaked it that early. I think the parts leak leaked before Apple PR

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did. Oh, I think Apple PR leaked to major publications. You know, parts leak all the time, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you had like the Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg, you know, major publications publishing as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fact that the next iPhone was going to have the same exterior case design and lose the headphone jack.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you see all the bad news early. So then by the time it actually comes around now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like it’s like old news it’s like no one’s like well people some people talking about it but like most of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the analysis and reviews of this thing are now just like oh yeah yeah old you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John as you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know it’s like oh it’s such genius

⏹️ ▶️ John such I don’t I don’t attribute is the genius of PR because I totally don’t think it’s a PR thing I think it is it completely

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you want to attribute the the the cleverness of doing this attribute to the people who made the decision of what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be in the product and that’s not PR PR Partisans aside, PR takes the product that’s there. And I know marketing has more of

⏹️ ▶️ John an influence in Apple’s products than other companies, but in general, the clever thing was to decide that this

⏹️ ▶️ John phone and not the next year’s eight is gonna be the one where they drop the head of import. Once they made that decision,

⏹️ ▶️ John it was inevitable that it would leak early and it was inevitable that everything would come out and then maybe you can credit

⏹️ ▶️ John PR later for confirming to the big publications that yes, this really is true to get that all

⏹️ ▶️ John out of the way. But anyway, we talked about that all in the last show. This show, as Jason Snell put it in his Six Colors post, The number I

⏹️ ▶️ John think was the number one thing that he wanted to learn from this event is Apple please tell me why you remove this port like a justification.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve all talked about many possible justifications. Now Apple had its its time on stage

⏹️ ▶️ John to tell us in its own words why they did this. And the more I’ve been thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John about it, the more I’m kind of glad that they didn’t that they didn’t go small.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like for example, that stereo speakers pretend that they had added a second speaker, but it was right next to the other one next to that little

⏹️ ▶️ John grill that actually isn’t a grill in front of anything right. If they had actually done that, it might have been easier for them

⏹️ ▶️ John to say, you know, we removed the headphone jack. You might be wondering why. Well, once

⏹️ ▶️ John we removed it, we had room for the second speaker and it’s twice as loud. Isn’t that great? Like, they didn’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John small. They didn’t say, let me just look at the physical design of this phone, tell you what is in the space where the headphone

⏹️ ▶️ John jack used to be. Because there’s something there. It’s not an empty space. If you look at the little picture, they showed, you know, you could see

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s not this big place that holds the headphone jack. So there is something there. And they could have said,

⏹️ ▶️ John we don’t have the headphone jack, kind of like many people did with the MacBook One. We don’t have the second USB

⏹️ ▶️ John port because look at the thing that’s there and there’s not a millimeter to spare. I don’t have a square

⏹️ ▶️ John to spare, right? They didn’t say that. They said, they led with the number one thing

⏹️ ▶️ John of courage. Like they took the high road, which is basically saying, look, we get rid of crap all the time. We get rid of things that are

⏹️ ▶️ John old. We make buttons not move. It’s it’s the reason we say

⏹️ ▶️ John courage is because we know people are going to be angry about it and it takes someone with the guts to drop

⏹️ ▶️ John legacy serial ports or the floppy drive or optical drives from desktop computers that are gigantic.

⏹️ ▶️ John We do that despite the fact that we know there will be backlash because we think it’s the right

⏹️ ▶️ John thing to do in terms of driving progress and we’re willing to take the you know the yelling.

⏹️ ▶️ John Which isn’t really a justification it’s more of an explanation. Why does Apple do things

⏹️ ▶️ John that make us mad? Because they think it’s right and they’re willing to take the heat. And the more I think

⏹️ ▶️ John about it, the more I say that that is the in in the absence of any actual

⏹️ ▶️ John concrete, really compelling explanation like it makes our phones, you know, now our phones don’t break or something

⏹️ ▶️ John like fantastical or whatever. That is the real honest and only explanation

⏹️ ▶️ John is that this is a thing that Apple does because they think it’s the right thing to do. And come at me, haters.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what they basically said, which I find, the more I think about it, more satisfying

⏹️ ▶️ John than specific reasons that I can nitpick at. Because this is not a specific reason, it is merely an explanation,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I say, yep, that’s why they do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, if you look at all the reasons that we’ve all been arguing about all summer, about why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is good or bad or justified or unjustified, the whole summer we kept

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying, let’s wait and see what Apple says on stage because let’s see what their reason is. And it is disappointing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to basically hear their reason is, we felt like it.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s not we felt like it. They did say they feel like it’s moving progress forward. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that doesn’t mean anything.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you were looking for a justification, there’s nothing that… because we’ve gone through all the reasons. There’s nothing they

⏹️ ▶️ John could say that is compelling enough to…

⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s a trade-off. We all know about the inconvenience and problems. What is balancing that on the other

⏹️ ▶️ John side? There is no specific feature or attribute of this phone, and there could never be

⏹️ ▶️ John any specific feature or attribute of this phone that would explain that adequately. The only explanation is the

⏹️ ▶️ John actual explanation, which is they do things like this to sort of push

⏹️ ▶️ John the human race forward, to quote from their ads, and they know people are mad about it and are going to

⏹️ ▶️ John be mad justifiably, not like unjustifiably. Like they know there are reasons to get mad about it. Why does Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John do these things? because that encourages a little bit overblown, but because they’re willing to take

⏹️ ▶️ John the heat for that. They’re willing to plow bravely forward, allow people to be legitimately

⏹️ ▶️ John angry at them for legitimate inconveniences, because they believe they will come out the other side

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually. They came out the other side of all the other ones, they’re gonna come out the other side of this. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you can, as we did, argue about, is it too soon? Is it too late? Like, did they get rid of the floppy

⏹️ ▶️ John too soon or too late? Or was it exactly the right time? Maybe they were a little bit early on the floppy.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did we come out the other side of that? Yes, we did. Time was on their side. A lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John our determination 10 years from now about this, did they go too early, too late, or was it a mistake? Because they could

⏹️ ▶️ John backpedal, like the glass front and back phone. Were they too early, too late, or was that not a great idea?

⏹️ ▶️ John Turns out, probably not a great idea with the current formulation of glass, so they didn’t do that again. They’re gonna try it again, maybe,

⏹️ ▶️ John with the iPhone 8 or whatever next year, so maybe they’ll come back to it. But anyway, we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John have to be able to make those terminations in hindsight but their their explanation I’m like I said I it

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense to me and I feel like it’s the only thing they could possibly say and it’s better than them

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to shuck and jive and dance and try to like convince you because they’re not gonna convince you it is gonna be inconvenient

⏹️ ▶️ John and their main point was we are willing to take we are willing to take your anger

⏹️ ▶️ John bring it to us and we

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco will bring it to them and people

⏹️ ▶️ John will bring it to them and hey they put the adapter in the box so that basically they did basically everything

⏹️ ▶️ John they can short of not doing this. And I totally believe this is something that would have to happen eventually infinite

⏹️ ▶️ John time scale, blah, blah, blah. This is when they’ve chosen to do it. They’re willing to take the heat. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll mostly be okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah. I mean, I agree that they did this in the best way they could if they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to remove the port. You know, good job including the adapter in the box and good job making additional adapters $9.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’d be nice if you if the The adapter was also a charge-through adapter because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people do that a lot, but okay, we’ll take what we can get for now. Third parties will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sell that, I guarantee it. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, I mean, timing-wise, if they did this without the AirPods, which we’ll get to in

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit, I think it would also be a little bit weaker. So, I mean, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John the AirPods are a wild card. We don’t know how well they work and what they’re gonna be like, and we’ll talk about them in a little bit, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John everything is in place for this to be fairly judged in hindsight

⏹️ ▶️ John five years from now. I guess we’ll all just wait for the USA Today stories to come out about

⏹️ ▶️ John it in the complaint center or whatever, but as we said the tech press already went through this. The mainstream press is going to have a big thing

⏹️ ▶️ John about it. It’s too late. If this turns out to be a colossal mistake,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s too late for them to fix it on next year’s phone by this point, which is kind of sad. I

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like it was too late for them to fix it on the forest, right? But when the five came out, no glass on both sides,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think they’ll mostly be okay. And if anything, I think they spent more time trying to justify

⏹️ ▶️ John it than they needed to. Like they should, they could have just done, who is it? Tom Brokaw or Dan Rather, who

⏹️ ▶️ John signed off his last broadcast with the word courage. They could have just done that and then just moved on.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, the, the courage thing that was tone deaf. I mean, not

⏹️ ▶️ John tone deaf, like there, there’s some, there’s something to it. Like I said, they are in the abstract

⏹️ ▶️ John when talking about companies, why do some companies do things and other ones don’t? It does come down to,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, boldness. It is courage in the context

⏹️ ▶️ John of companies making decisions about their products. Like if that is your frame of reference,

⏹️ ▶️ John within that frame there are moves that are more courageous and less courageous. And Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John has historically been a company that’s willing to do the more courageous things, even if it falls on its face

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes. That’s the defining characteristic of Apple as a company. And so if you don’t want to, that’s not the same as like real

⏹️ ▶️ John courage, real life. No, it’s not. It’s a bunch of companies picking features for their products, but I’m hard pressed

⏹️ ▶️ John to find a better word.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, the genius at Apple PR, there is nothing really left for me to say about the headphone jack removal at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We waited for there to be a reason. There wasn’t one. None of the reasons they gave, with the exception

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of courage, were reasons that made this…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons that you had to remove the port to achieve. Like, they could have launched AirPods, they could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have promoted lightning headphones and launched some of their own lightning earpods, they could have done all those things without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco removing the headphone port. Like, removing the headphone port was not a necessity for any of those advances. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they never… So, the courageous part was really just saying, alright, well, I guess we’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anger everybody here here and to do something that serves a few of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our goals and doesn’t really serve any of yours.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, but it serves, it’s just like the floppy disk though. Like what, what did it, getting rid of a floppy disk

⏹️ ▶️ John help users? I was like, well, we think we should, you should use different, what different removal media? There’s not any good different removal

⏹️ ▶️ John media. Zip texts are crappy and USB keys are really slow and small and dingy. Well, we think in the future you won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John miss the floppy disk because other stuff will eventually replace it. Yeah, but what about now? I miss my floppy disk now. Well, they’re doing the

⏹️ ▶️ John exact same thing with the audio port. Again, this doesn’t justify doing it this instant, but they’re saying like, well, but what do I do for

⏹️ ▶️ John my headphones? Oh, digital audio interface on lightning, blah, blah, blah. Never mind the half of things they should plug into there. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m assuming their earbuds are not using digital audio because there’s no DAC inside their little ear pods, right? Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re saying the AirPods are their thing. Like, oh, you know, we think there’s a better way for

⏹️ ▶️ John you to hear sound in your ears that come out of your phone than plugging in with this really old port. And they’re offering

⏹️ ▶️ John an actual concrete product, not just like speculatively, like here are the AirPods maybe the AirPods suck and this

⏹️ ▶️ John and that will definitely make it the wrong time to have done this because people want to plug their things in but on the other hand they do have

⏹️ ▶️ John they do have answers why remove it makes more room in the phone and we think there’s better ways for you to listen to audio

⏹️ ▶️ John and I you know if the AirPods end up being really good and don’t have any of the downsides of Bluetooth that don’t cut out on

⏹️ ▶️ John you and the sound quality is pretty good and they magically connect everything and everything syncs up whatever I

⏹️ ▶️ John think that probably will be a better way to listen to audio from your phone than having a string going from your pocket up to your ear to get

⏹️ ▶️ John snagged on things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it’ll be great for the people who are willing to spend $160 to buy those ear pods,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who don’t lose them, who they are charged up for, and who can actually wear them. Like, one of the problems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have, like Apple is replacing this port that I can use any headphone I want with, with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a new, with, you know, allegedly, you know, all these better things, one of the major

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones of which is advanced earbuds. Well, I can’t wear earbuds, because of whatever is wrong with my ears

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that makes them hurt like hell. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you got mutant ears, yeah. I know a lot of people have weird needs, but you have the adapter. Like, it’s not like you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have any solutions.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, but what I’m saying is like there’s lots of people, like that old analog port, one of the things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great about it is that it is universal. It satisfies so many different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people’s needs and desires, and it is so broad in what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it enables for so many different use cases, and Apple is replacing it with something that’s actually extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco narrow. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think I need to be the voice of reason on this one. I don’t see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why this is such a big problem, given that they’re including the adapter in the box.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And BuzzFeed had a really great article that actually Marco had sent to us privately before we recorded,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where they talked to several different Apple employees and executives. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so Dan, is it Rickio or Richio, said, this is a quote,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was holding us back from number of things we wanted to put into the iPhone. It was fighting for space

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with camera technologies and processors and battery life. And frankly, when there’s a better modern solution available,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s crazy to keep it around. I think that that’s legitimately

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what they thought. Like one of you were saying earlier, I don’t think this was nefarious. I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this was ill-intentioned. They genuinely just wanted the space in there. And one of the things we haven’t talked about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet is that the battery life in the 7 is, I would say considerably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey better than the successes that it replaces. Some of that is because of a much better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey central processor, which again, we’ll talk about sometime between now and tomorrow when we finally stop.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But some of that is also, I believe, because of a bigger battery. And let’s suppose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the battery is exactly the same size for the sake of discussion. There’s a different placed haptic engine that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey presumably is a little larger. There’s things taking up space in this camera,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in this camera, in this phone, and I am more than willing to give up a headphone port that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I personally don’t use very often at all in order to get those advancements.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the thing that really bothers me that I truly don’t understand is the entire

⏹️ ▶️ Casey internet getting their junk on a WOD because they say Bluetooth sucks. I use

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a really shitty pair of Bluetooth headphones constantly. I use them 40

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hours a week at work. I don’t, these headphones are like 20 bucks brand new.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There we’ll put a link in the show notes. I don’t have any problem with them. I use

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them for a day or two and then I charge them overnight. I don’t find

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any latency issues whenever I, if I’m watching a video, as long as I’m on the Mac, if I’m watching

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a video using either Safari or any of the like QuickTime, any of the media players

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that are built into the Mac, no problems with latency. They sound just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine for a regular person. To Marco, I am not saying they would sound good enough. To

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, they sound just fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John He

⏹️ ▶️ John listens to his phone on his counter. I don’t know how many times I’m going

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John carrying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this. I don’t listen to music like that. Well either way, either way, either way. The point is I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t have any issues with disconnections and if I do, it’s very rare and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only when I haven’t been using them for the last 20 minutes and they’ve like timed themselves out and gone to sleep.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not saying these problems don’t exist from other people, but golly, I don’t understand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why I’m the special friggin snowflake of Bluetooth and why I am the only one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that doesn’t have this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re not using it in a challenging situation. Like Bluetooth has a bunch of things that it’s supposed to do and it does a whole

⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of them really badly. Pairing quickly, it depends on your device and my car doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John do a good job.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, that’s a disaster.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sharing a device between multiple things, also a disaster. If you only ever have it paired with one thing that you

⏹️ ▶️ John never move it away from and it sits in one place, but you’re not challenging it. Like, the job of Bluetooth

⏹️ ▶️ John is not just to fulfill that one use case you have. The job of Bluetooth is to be this wireless, low power tech. And I would say

⏹️ ▶️ John power-wise, I’m assuming Apple’s one uses less power than Bluetooth, too. In theory,

⏹️ ▶️ John because we haven’t tried this yet, Apple’s solution is technically better than Bluetooth because

⏹️ ▶️ John it fixes the things that are clunky and annoying about Bluetooth and I assume it also uses less energy. So that

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean that’s why like I tweeted the thing I’m happy to see Apple moving beyond Bluetooth they keep waiting and doing

⏹️ ▶️ John these different Bluetooth standards and it’s just it’s just annoying for me. We have we have one little shared

⏹️ ▶️ John speaker in our bedroom that my wife uses sometimes from Bluetooth and I use sometimes from Bluetooth and I hate the fact that when

⏹️ ▶️ John I go to try to play from it I can’t just select it because oh now it’s paired with my wife’s phone and I have to go and manually

⏹️ ▶️ John reconnect it to my phone right by going through a series of screens. attempt to solve

⏹️ ▶️ John this with this little magic case that you open up the lid on and it brings everything who knows if that works but there’s there

⏹️ ▶️ John is a real problem they’re trying to address just because your use case doesn’t run into any of those problems doesn’t mean that Bluetooth

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t be bettered and I think because Bluetooth is such a common complaint like it’s not terrible it’s better than

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing it’s good for the wireless things we use it for I do use Bluetooth speakers it’s nice but everyone who

⏹️ ▶️ John uses it a lot and uses all the different cases sees the weak spots and so is looking for

⏹️ ▶️ John usually the next version of Bluetooth that’s going to fix all this. But in the end, eventually, we’re just going to

⏹️ ▶️ John throw ourselves at the mercies of Apple’s proprietary thing. It’s kind of like I said before about the

⏹️ ▶️ John little RF dongles for Logitech mice. Who knows what tech they’re using there, but the batteries last

⏹️ ▶️ John forever and I never have any problems with it. And I’m kind of glad they’re not Bluetooth.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, my main concern with things like this, the reason why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I resist these things and I complain about these things when they happen. It’s very similar between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the headphone jack removal moving to Bluetooth and buttons on trackpads

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and home buttons moving to 3D Touch, vibration motors, whatever else. The main

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason I complain about this kind of stuff is that the things that were there before, the simple,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old, established ways of doing things, headphone jacks, buttons, those things have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredible advantages in simplicity and reliability. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean simplicity not just like electrically or mechanically, but like using them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s great simplicity there. And there are so many cases in technology these days where we take

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something that is incredibly simple that has worked forever like a button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we say, you know what? We have a great solution to this problem. This problem, by the way, that we’ve just invented that we’re now calling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a problem. And we’re now saying it’s inevitable these things are going away, even though that was not necessarily the case before, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now we’re going to solve this problem. Everything in air quotes, I can’t make enough air quotes for this whole discussion, everything in air quotes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, we’re going to solve this problem of this old thing that works just fine by making a new thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is better but more complicated and we were saying it’s better and because in some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways it is better, in some ways it’s more advanced, maybe it’s wireless, maybe it allows software control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where there wasn’t software control before, whatever the case, that’s what’s so compelling about these things, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are better in many big ways, but But they also get worse in a number of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big ways that we tend to gloss over or minimize. Like, oh yeah, you can’t just plug anything in anymore. Now you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got to do this pairing dance or you can’t actually this button is never going to ever feel like a button again. There might be now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco software introduced delays into when this button feels like a button. Like there’s like we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do this to so many things in technology and it you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in general we We do get ourselves ahead and we do make progress, I think, on the whole.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I do think it’s worth evaluating these things very critically with lots of scrutiny with these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco decisions we make before we say, yes, it is definitely better. Yes, we need to get rid of this thing. Yes, we need to replace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing that has worked fine for a hundred years.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you’re just applying the blanket where every time there’s any change like that, like you’re just always resistant. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not good at identifying which ones are the ones, like I said, like when I was speculating about the non-moving track matter, which are these

⏹️ ▶️ John ones where you look back on 10 years and say, I can’t believe I ever used the mechanical one, right? That the mechanical

⏹️ ▶️ John one fears barbaric and broken. And which of the ones are you going to say, in hindsight, it was a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John mistake to move all these things to be solid state or whatever, you know, and it should have, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the car interior, you need a certain number of knobs. Like if every time they do that move, your,

⏹️ ▶️ John your instinct is always to say this is a mistake and you’re making things worse than you’re probably not. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John The task is to fit to discern to look back at your history of judging these things and see

⏹️ ▶️ John when was I right when was I? Wrong and how can I apply that to? New things that are like this that are presented for me

⏹️ ▶️ John will this be something that in hindsight? I will look at and say it’s a no-brainer like I think we all agree the floppy drive was

⏹️ ▶️ John or will it be something that We look back on and say that was a terrible mistake like so many things in car interiors in the 80s and 90s

⏹️ ▶️ John That ended up to be terrible ideas. They said you know it let’s let’s go back to to the

⏹️ ▶️ John old idea because this new one turned out to be bad. And that’s the challenge of figuring out technology. Now the headphone

⏹️ ▶️ John port, I feel like because it is a port and because we have so much past experience with ports,

⏹️ ▶️ John there is something on the side to say this is something we should get rid of. There’s also something on the other side because unlike all

⏹️ ▶️ John the other parts we talked about, this is so old and so common. It’s way more common than the serial printer

⏹️ ▶️ John port that was expunged from Macs or whatever, right? So it’s difficult

⏹️ ▶️ John to judge, but I don’t know if this is going to end up being a mistake. All I can say

⏹️ ▶️ John is that their presentation of it was, I think, honest and direct. And like Casey said,

⏹️ ▶️ John they have reasons. None of those reasons justify it. In the end, I think the most important thing is

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple thinks there’s a better way to get audio out of your phones. And they may be wrong because none

⏹️ ▶️ John of us have tried their new solutions, but the public will decide in many years

⏹️ ▶️ John if Apple’s things have a reputation. Even if Apple sticks to its guns, the reputation is, oh, I was getting an iPhone, but just,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I like iPhones, but just be aware that they’re annoying to use with audio. That will not be a success for Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John if that’s what everyone says about iPhones in five years. But in five years, if no one mentions this and the headphone part is gone from all

⏹️ ▶️ John phones, I think you have to put a notch in the win column for Apple on it and say,

⏹️ ▶️ John people were cranky, there was massive inconvenience, just like there was with all those transitions, and we

⏹️ ▶️ John got through it. I’m gonna give them better than 50% chance that they’re gonna pull

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this off Oh, I think they they are definitely gonna pull this off because no one else is making iPhones for people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to buy instead like I mean Like do you think

⏹️ ▶️ John Android phones Android phones will drop the headphone port? That’s what I’m saying pull it off as in like eventually nobody ship floppies with

⏹️ ▶️ John their PCs anymore Although I shouldn’t say that because I’m sure there’s some PC you can buy with a floppy drive But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I’m pretty sure you could still pay Dell like 30 bucks to put a floppy drive in your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John new

⏹️ ▶️ John 30 bucks boy. That’s too much.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco No one’s buying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or is

⏹️ ▶️ John there a specialty item now? But anyway, they will succeed if this slowly fades

⏹️ ▶️ John from all products just like floppy drives did.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it will just because they, well, it’ll at least fade from phones, because they’ve now set the standard.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Will it fade from MacBooks and iPads too? I don’t know, I think it certainly says something that the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has only one other port and yet they included a headphone port. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that MacBook is like really old. It’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They deem that important enough for that. No, I mean, I guess I’m done arguing this, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just, I disagree with the fundamental premise that this port

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was doomed, period, and had to be replaced. I disagree with the time that it had to be replaced now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think that’s courage. I think that’s other factors, that’s other attributes, but I wouldn’t call that courage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m sad that… If

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not courage, is it caution? What word would you use? it’s not caution. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not it’s not timidness. It’s maybe hubris. Well, yeah, but like hubris

⏹️ ▶️ John would be like, maybe hubris would say we believe there’s a better way like to believe that you have such a better way

⏹️ ▶️ John and actually you’re mistaken. You really believe you have a better way than this headphone port that has proven itself over the line. I think that’s a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John word to use. But hubris tends to go hand in hand with courage and that

⏹️ ▶️ John to really believe you have this better way and to you know, I mean, there’s a fine line between courage and stupidity, I

⏹️ ▶️ John guess. And hubris is where that line is drawn, I suppose.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, the reality is, again, they’re going to be fine. And we are going to stop. We’re just all going to accept

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this as normal and stop talking about it in like a week. It’s going to be fine. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do think we’ve lost something here. And I don’t think this was necessarily the right decision. I think this was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a decision made that’s more in Apple’s interest than its customers’ interest. It’s making the product

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worse for Apple’s interests.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I disagree. So I, I understand that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there are a lot of people that are not living the, the fancy Bluetooth lifestyle. Erin

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in her car does not have a Bluetooth connection. I get that. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at some point we have to say enough is enough. This is the future. And they Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if we believe them, and if we take them at face value, they have fixed all of the common

⏹️ ▶️ Casey complaints about Bluetooth or they were never a problem in first damn place.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco With a whole bunch of asterisks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think so. So look at the people, look at the things everyone complains and moans about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it comes to Bluetooth. Oh you have to charge it, oh now I have to worry about charging because oh life is so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey difficult and I have to worry about charging. Oh well look at that you get three hours

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of charge on the AirPods for 15 minutes. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could go and use the restroom in more time than it takes for these things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to charge and give me three hours of charge. How long are you spending in the restroom? I’m being facetious, but my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey point is- Does that

⏹️ ▶️ John include a shower? He dropped his phone in the toilet. He had to fish it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, well, let’s say, okay, I could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John jump in the shower. I was thinking about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it at work. The point is, you can go and talk to a friend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at work in 15 minutes, and next thing you know, your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey AirPods are charged. So I don’t believe, And if you find that charging is that fricking difficult,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh, come on. I don’t see why that’s a problem at all. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so pairing, that has been fixed with the AirPods. And if it’s fixed with the AirPods

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and fixed with all these Beats headphones, you have to assume that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is going to trickle down to other devices and other manufacturers. Probably through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an MFI program, it will probably be a common thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, just like the battery case trickled down? All the fancy integration that has with the phone that other battery cases can’t do?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, yeah, but I don’t view that as an apples-to-apples comparison at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I think it’s very much so. I think Apple is very much okay with making standards

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and things and extending things that its own products get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco special treatment in the system and get more capabilities or better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco capabilities than what third-party stuff can do. I would not at all expect Apple to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco share the abilities of this new W1 Bluetooth chipset that’s in these things and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the various software integrations with like pairing it with the quick little window and syncing your pair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco progress between all your different devices. I would never expect that to come to anything else that is not an Apple branded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco headphone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know about that. I give that a reasonable chance that they’ll do that just because, I mean, obviously they’ll charge

⏹️ ▶️ John you for it. They’ll make money off it. It’ll be more than just license fee because this is an Apple designed chip that you’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John probably have to license from them but I don’t I mean I don’t think it’s likely because that tends not to be the thing out but I

⏹️ ▶️ John think it’s within the realm of possibility because there are a lot of again if this this pairing thing works

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re just assuming it does but if it really is as good as they say it’s kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John in Apple’s interest to have as many products as possible yep that all only work

⏹️ ▶️ John with their thing so I’m gonna wait and see on that one it really just depends on how much money they think there

⏹️ ▶️ John is it should they even bother because like yeah there’s an accessory market for it but we shouldn’t bother Because bluetooth fills that need

⏹️ ▶️ John but if there’s a lot of interest and it doesn’t cost them a lot of money to license these chips You know, we’ll say the air

⏹️ ▶️ John pods aren’t even shipping yet So who knows what the maybe the limitation is the new w1 chip or whatever? So

⏹️ ▶️ John it could be that w1 isn’t licensed but the w5 is but it all depends on how successful

⏹️ ▶️ John this is and how successful the air pods are and how successful Apple is at

⏹️ ▶️ John Convincing people that they really do have better way for you to get audio out of your phone than to plug

⏹️ ▶️ John it into the headphone support.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So they’ve, they’ve done batteries and charging as well as you possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can in the year of 2016. They’ve done pairing from everything we’ve been told and taking them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at face value as well as you can in 2016. Importantly, because you were right in calling me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out on my, my love of my Bluetooth headphones at work, to be fair, I never, ever pair those things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with anything else. And it’s a frigging nightmare if I go to do that. But with the AirPods,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s been fixed. Apparently it’s easy as pie and uses iCloud which is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really scary It as soon as you pair with any of your devices like freaking magic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of your devices are paired So if we believe that iCloud is magical so that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been fixed the the switching has been fixed the pairing has been fixed I kid you not I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ever see latency on my really crappy $20 Bluetooth headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as long as I’m not in Chrome if I’m in Chrome its latency city I’ll be the first to tell you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but on Safari on QuickTime on Preview on on quick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey look anything else. It’s fine I never get disconnected because my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey arm is in the way I can walk like 20 30 feet away. I’m still connected I can still listen to music

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or podcast or what have you. I don’t see how latency is an issue I don’t see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how any of this is an issue and And okay, the one thing you can come back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to and say is, well, what we had was fine. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess it was fine. And if you want to continue to have that thing that was fine, use

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the freaking adapter. But in the end of the day, Apple wanted to make a phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was the same size. That was a design constraint for better or worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m getting dragged over the coals in the chat because, oh, we could have just made it bigger an added

⏹️ ▶️ Casey space for the headphone port. Sure. They could have, but for better or worse,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good, right. Or bad, wrong or indifferent. Doesn’t matter. The point of the matter is they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wanted to keep the thing the same size. And in order to do that and make the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey improvements they wanted, they had to ditch the headphone port. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey says it in this BudFeed article. They had to do it. And so.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re getting the MacBook one argument again.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco actually kind of doesn’t say that,

⏹️ ▶️ John by the way. It shouldn’t have gone. Like, they didn’t have to. Like, they could have made room.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was room in there. They could have gotten room out of it somehow. They did it with all the other phones, they could do it again.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s, like, maybe they said that in a BuzzFeed article, but on stage, they shied away from that. Because like I said, there is something

⏹️ ▶️ John where the headphone port was, and that something is essential. If you were to cut it out with an X-Acto knife, the phone will not function

⏹️ ▶️ John anymore. But that’s, again, true with the MacBook One. If you had designed it from the beginning, as they did with

⏹️ ▶️ John the 6S and the 6, you can find room for it, surprisingly. That’s not the whole thing. I think one of the

⏹️ ▶️ John angles on it that they mentioned in passing that we haven’t really talked about too much is the idea that it’s a unitasker,

⏹️ ▶️ John that that port only serve one purpose as opposed to the multitasking lightning port that can do all sorts of different things. That’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a plus and minus there in that multipurpose means like, oh, but what if we want to charge at the same time? It’s multipurpose

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s just one port. Maybe they should have three lighting ports in the bottom and then they’ll solve this problem, right? But, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are other reasons to think that like, you know, if you don’t believe like this thing was inevitably

⏹️ ▶️ John doomed. It’s hard to let go of something that’s been around for so long because it’s so compatible and it’s so ubiquitous.

⏹️ ▶️ John But really, in the grand scheme of things, holes in computers that only perform one function

⏹️ ▶️ John and that function never changes over the years, don’t have a good life. We want

⏹️ ▶️ John ports to do multiple things. At this point, we have a port that does power and runs monitors

⏹️ ▶️ John and you can run ethernet over all in the same port. Obviously, if you just have one of those ports, it’s crappy, but

⏹️ ▶️ John like, there are so many trends moving that direction. There’s also minuses for wires

⏹️ ▶️ John that I feel personally, when I have my thing plugged in

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s a wire snaking from my arm, I do get it caught on things. And we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John all had the thing where your ear pods get yanked out of your ears, and I am instantly infuriated by that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sensation.

⏹️ ▶️ John I hate it. And that’s why I’ve been looking into these wireless things. I’m not saying this justifies it, but there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John there is another side and everything that I’ve mentioned does not benefit Apple except for the part Where I pay them 160 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ John for the little ear pods But there are consumer benefits at the other side of it So at this point I’m still

⏹️ ▶️ John willing to give Apple the benefit of the doubt which is why I’m willing to even Try this phone out if I try

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone out and it turns out their wireless solution is crap And I missed my headphone port. I’ll be for

⏹️ ▶️ John the first to say it, but I’m Right now I’m willing to give it a go All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s move on.

iPhone 7: Processors

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Performance was the last major category they had where they talked about the A10, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the new chip. It is four core. There are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two high-performance cores, which are 40% faster than the outgoing A9, and two high-efficiency

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cores, which run at 20% of the power of the other two cores. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s a really interesting and really clever way of trying to squeeze a little more juice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or a little more runtime, I should say, out of these phones. And it reminds me a lot to channel neutral, reminds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me a lot of the, was it the North Star that was the first to shut down cylinders

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you didn’t need a bunch of power as you were like driving on the highway, for example, and just maintaining your speed. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say you had this humongous V8 in your Cadillac, the thing would just shut down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey half of the V8 in order to save yourself a little gas. it wasn’t the North Star, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was a different one, but that same idea happened all over the place and still goes on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from time to time.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it doesn’t go on from time to time. It is everywhere. A cylinder deactivation is like a standard feature of every car with an

⏹️ ▶️ John engine that’s too big for it nowadays.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, exactly. But sounds like it’s really good. The performance improvements are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey impressive as always. The GPU, apparently six core, 50% faster

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than what’s in the A9, three times what’s in the the A8 that’s in the six models.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And most importantly to me, apparently we’ve found plenty of other things to talk about this episode, but most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey importantly to me, they said you will get two hours more than a 6S

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you’re using the 7, roughly, and one hour more on a 7 Plus

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than you got on the 6S Plus. So we are actually seeing an increase in battery life even without

⏹️ ▶️ Casey making the device bigger, which I am super on board with. I am genuinely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stoked about this. And in fact, I was really debating going Plus Club this year because of that two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey camera system like we were talking about earlier. And also because of the improved battery life. And granted,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would still get a lot more battery life if I went Plus Club with the 7. But the fact that I’m, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like I’m on the ragged edge of comfortable on battery life on my 6S Plus, and this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is gonna give me another two hours in theory, well, that should be great. I should be good to go outside of like conferences.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then I’ll use the super proprietary humpback if I need to. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am all on board. I think this is all great things. Not terribly unexpected outside of the battery

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff, but all good things all around.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the battery stuff we expected too. This is exactly what we talked about. If they use the same case for three years in a row and the system on

⏹️ ▶️ John a chip becomes more efficient, and this is before we even, like this is better than even thought because not only does the system on a chip become more efficient

⏹️ ▶️ John from a new process, but they have the little, the low power sort of limp mode things, which is a very clever design. I’m not sure

⏹️ ▶️ John if other phones are doing that, But I think it’s mostly unprecedented in desktop CPUs, where you would

⏹️ ▶️ John have non-uniform cores, like you’d have these wussy cores that are just like one third of the

⏹️ ▶️ John die area, but otherwise presumably fully functional, and you would use them when you need to,

⏹️ ▶️ John instead of just power cycling things or disabling cores.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, there’s the whole, there’s the ARM big dot little thing, and I think this is just one of those implementations.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t know of any other devices that use it in the phone or computer space.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and you don’t only get better as they, I’m assuming the A11 and so on and so forth, get better about like

⏹️ ▶️ John being able to switch between them faster and getting smarter about when to use them and all such other stuff. So anyway, we get the

⏹️ ▶️ John benefit of same size case, bigger battery, because there’s slightly more room or maybe even the same size battery,

⏹️ ▶️ John lower power system on a chip equals more battery. And I was saying like 10, 15%, you know, I can’t do the math in my head, but

⏹️ ▶️ John two hours, that is, you know, if that is even remotely close to true, that is something

⏹️ ▶️ John that everybody will notice. And it is almost exactly, I mean, Marco, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John asking for double battery life, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John think-

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh no, I was asking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for four or five times more battery life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s what I was, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know what I mean? Like, I mean, we have to, you know, again, be carrying around a bar of soap, but if that two hour figure is remotely close to

⏹️ ▶️ John true, I am really happy about that. As someone who doesn’t have battery problems on my phone, because I feel like that is

⏹️ ▶️ John the substantial battery improvement we’re talking about. Now granted, again, they got it by using the same size case for three years, and you

⏹️ ▶️ John can probably kiss that goodbye for next year’s super skinny phone, but enjoy it while you can.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is great news if it works out the way they say with real world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use. And it might. Apple is, they have kind of a mixed record of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adhering to their benchmarks from reality. Usually, if you do the things that are in their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco benchmarks, usually they’re actually pretty good, but the question is more like whether real world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use is well reflected by the benchmarks. In this case, what we’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for most of their, most recent advances in battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in devices, phones and laptops. The vast majority of recent advances have not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really been in reducing the amount of power while you’re using it heavily. It’s mostly been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in reducing power used while it’s pretty much idle or doing very, very simple tasks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s what this most likely is. Because of that new asymmetric core design, where you have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco low power cores and the high power cores, that’s awesome. Because of that, that’s going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most likely the savings only in idle and low power states. I bet when it’s in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the high power states, it’s still gonna kill your battery just as much as it did before, maybe even more now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I don’t know. Here’s the reason I have some question on that, because

⏹️ ▶️ John if the Wimpy cores are enough to accomplish the task, for

⏹️ ▶️ John instance, imagine there’s a task that uses a lot of GPU, but you need just enough CPU that you can use the Wimpy

⏹️ ▶️ John cores, you’ll still get the savings when quote unquote working flat out. You know what I mean? imagining, say

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a game that you can play, and the game is like two years old, and you can run

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole game just using the Wimpy cores, you will see a huge savings just playing that game flat out.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if we’re close to that point. I don’t know what the threshold is, but because we’ve come so far, you showed

⏹️ ▶️ John that graph and everything, those two quote unquote Wimpy cores are like faster than the iPhone 5

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. Like I don’t know what the actual specs on them are, but like there is some past phone that we used to think was fast,

⏹️ ▶️ John that these little Wimpy cores are faster than. So I feel like this one is more like you’re driving most of

⏹️ ▶️ John the time on four cylinders and only when you put your foot down do they all come on. But this is just speculation

⏹️ ▶️ John because I have no idea what the threshold is. But what it comes down to is I think

⏹️ ▶️ John there are an increasing number of tasks on your phone that can be handled

⏹️ ▶️ John by the weak CPU. So I keep picking like email and maybe even web browsing is like that. And you just save

⏹️ ▶️ John the big guns for when you really need it as opposed to the situation we are on like Macbooks where it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John look, if you’re just going to be compiling software for hours, everything’s going to be running max. And you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John what can you do? Or you’re playing a game, desktop games, just run everything in max. There’s no game

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re running with like the wimpy course, but on phones, who knows?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, it remains to be seen also, like as a developer, can can you set like your process affinity to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the like, can you say, run this thread only on the wimpy course?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Damn it, I was gonna ask that same question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John really, I really, I really doubt that I would have this is exactly This is a totally the kind of thing that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John is going to want to have complete control over, because they’re going to tweak it. They’re going to be like, well, the first version, we had this

⏹️ ▶️ John very simple algorithm, which isn’t that great. And the second version, the A11, we can change states like 100 times faster,

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re much smarter about doing it based on data. You’ve got to give them time to ramp

⏹️ ▶️ John up on this. I can’t imagine them giving core affinity attributes,

⏹️ ▶️ John that type of low-level thing. It just doesn’t seem like something they would do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Also, like, can you use all four cores at once? Or like, when the high power one is on, does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it deactivate that low power one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that you

⏹️ ▶️ John use all four because I’m thinking of those geek bench scores. And I bet like the reason you get the multi thread boost is I think you can

⏹️ ▶️ John use all four at once.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, maybe. I don’t know. We’ll find out. But yeah, this that that is very, you know, just as a programmer, that is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very interesting to me to have to have this kind of architecture. And you know, even if I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco manually direct it or hint it to do things the way I think they should be done, it will still be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool to try to target things to those low power core. He’d be like, Alright, let me try it. It’s kind of like the people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who like back before the Prius had a plug in variant when they would like try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get their Prius to stay on only electric mode for like as long as possible in their daily driving.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like I feel like as a developer, like how, how can I write this this queue or this thread or this entire app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to try to stay on the low power core the entire time or as long as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John possible? There’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be a WWDC session with some, you know, iOS instruments demo showing you that Like as we can see here in

⏹️ ▶️ John the graph this big jump that’s when it goes up to the bigger core So if you can keep it down below them,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, exactly. Yeah that that’s gonna be cool. I’m looking forward to this I I do I’m a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m kind of like wait-and-see skeptical on the battery claim simply because it sure does sound like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they just improved idle power without really Addressing like usage power, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so all in all what would you say since I haven’t heard anything about ratings

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and And certainly I know that John loves to give numerical ratings. What would you say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about the presentation today? I thought it was really good. I can’t say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off the top of my head, I can’t say I was really disappointed in anything. I’m not in love with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey synthetic bokeh, but I still think it’s a move in the right direction-ish. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was really pleased with this, and I think they did a really great job. Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, overall, pretty good event, pretty good presentation, pretty good quality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall, and the products they announced seemed like nothing was incredibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprising except maybe the replacing of the Watch 1 CPU with the Watch 2’s CPU. That was pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cool. Other than that, nothing was an amazing surprise necessarily,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but overall, solid updates to the Watch and the phone. I do obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very much miss the Mac as a thing that was updated and talked about ever,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but hopefully that will be resolved soon. I really hope so. And otherwise, though, for what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was announced today, pretty solid updates, and I’m looking forward to getting my hands on the new phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well getting both hands around my new phone, that’s for sure. One won’t be enough.

⏹️ ▶️ John John? Yeah, I miss the days when I didn’t know things. it was kind of disappointing that we knew almost everything here

⏹️ ▶️ John but I was excited by the things that I saw almost all the things they were doing

⏹️ ▶️ John well there was there was no surprises except pleasant ones let’s put it that way because all the things that were potentially disappointing

⏹️ ▶️ John we knew about and the pleasant surprise we didn’t talk about the storage tiers but like and we knew about all that ahead of time

⏹️ ▶️ John we knew the you know basically knew the 32 128 256 thing or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John but the things we didn’t know about were pleasant we didn’t know about the the series one getting the new CPU

⏹️ ▶️ John and we didn’t know about the 6s and the 6s plus getting rid of the 16s which is

⏹️ ▶️ John a pleasant surprise and yeah not typical of Tim Cook’s Apple and needless to say

⏹️ ▶️ John absolutely the right thing to do but 16 is ridiculous it would be better if the current line was

⏹️ ▶️ John 64 128 256 but beggars can’t be choosers this is positive progress so I mean when I came out of the event

⏹️ ▶️ John I was excited to try the products they showed I mean I’m excited to see my

⏹️ ▶️ John wife’s inevitable new watch and see her play Pokemon go on it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and the

⏹️ ▶️ John GPS features. I’m excited to check out the new phones and see what the new service is like

⏹️ ▶️ John and the grips and stuff like that. I’m excited that the new phone is faster and that the camera is better and,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we knew there was going to be NoMacs for the most part. I still believe that they will

⏹️ ▶️ John be updated this year and I’ll be probably more excited about that event than

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing, but overall I was satisfied with the presentation and happy with it and thought it was

⏹️ ▶️ John done well. I even kind of like the weird musical act at the end.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The sea is very good, actually. Awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cool. All right. Well, thank you very much to our three sponsors this week, Hover, Tracker,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Betterment and we will see you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental. John didn’t do any research,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Margo and

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. And you can find

⏹️ ▶️ John the show notes at ATP.FM And if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and T. Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, they didn’t mean to.

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, Tech Podcasts So Long.

⏹️ ▶️ John We did it!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t believe this is so long. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so

⏹️ ▶️ John hot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in this room.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I decided I’m about to go to Portland for the last XOXO.

Post-show: Downgrading storage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so. And I decided a few days ago, in advance of ordering the new iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in about 24 hours now, I think. Oh, God, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, in advance of that, I decided, let me switch back to my Plus that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had for a few days and take it on the beginning of this trip. And that’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco help me, give me one final thing. Do I want to go Plus? Because I really want the features and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the battery of the Plus. I want that camera, I want the big battery. And when I’m actually using the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Plus to do things, I do love having that big screen. I love having the extra screen space.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love seeing Instagram photos bigger. I love seeing any photos bigger. Seeing my own photos, taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera photos and processing and everything. Just extra space on webpages, etc. So I thought, alright,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let me move back to the Plus for a few days as one final sanity check to see if I can really live with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it as a size. My Plus is 64 gigs. My 6s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’ve been living on is 128 and I use iCloud photo library.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You see where this is going? So to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco transfer your current backup from a 128 gig device

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a 64 gig device when you’re using iCloud photo library.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So problem number one, I tried, I had forgotten about the size difference, try it and of course it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco says oh sorry we can’t restore this back up to this phone because there’s not enough space okay so I go I go to my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to my success okay how do I how do I clear space from this device now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve heard over the years that Apple’s slowly getting better at this process there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still some way to go I would say so problem number one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you’re using iCloud photo library it smartly manages your storage which means that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless the phone is incredibly low on space it never deletes anything however it also doesn’t give you a way to delete

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything without actually deleting it from your iCloud photo library. It’s like deleting it everywhere. You can’t…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So normally all the pictures and video that you take on the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even after they get uploaded to iCloud photo library, as far as I can tell, they don’t leave the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone. Like they don’t get deleted off the phone even when it’s safe to. The old way to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was to import your photos into a photo app on your computer and and then use the photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app or use image capture to open up the phone as if it were a camera and delete

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the photos off the phone that way. Because there’s nowhere in the system settings on the phone anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where you can delete photos out of your photo library. That’s just not a thing. So as far as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can tell, I looked all over the place and couldn’t find any. And in retrospect, that’s probably a good thing. There isn’t a thing that people would do it accidentally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, but even with iCloud Photo Library, you can’t say, all right, there’s no button that says, please

⏹️ ▶️ Marco free up as much space as you safely can. that’s in iCloud, please delete it off my phone right now. There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no button to do that anywhere. So I like remove all the music. I remove all the podcasts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not listening to I remove some big games. I never play because who cares I remove garage band all these things. Eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the only thing I can do is I have to get rid of this giant block of photos because everything else is not making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough space to do this. I had to sign I had to disable iCloud photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco library, which is kind of a scary thing to do even though I like I here I am like on my computer I have all these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have it like in photos app right there so I know I’m not losing anything and I and that’s all backed up even if I called

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gets all crazy I have that like I have a Mac backup like through back plays their time machine through super duper okay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I know I’m safe still a crazy thing to do from your phone like to disable that and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because image capture won’t let you delete photos off the phone if I cloud photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco library is enabled so the thing I had to do and I’m not sure if I could have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything better What I had to do was disable iCloud Photo Library on the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco open up ImageCapture on my Mac, have it select all and delete all like 16,000

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever it was something like that photos that were on the phone, many of which I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t even shoot on the phone were just copied there for photo library purposes, like you know through sync.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Delete everything that way, then back that up, restore that to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 64 gig phone, and then re enable iCloud photo library

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the phone then.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like all this was to you to avoid iCloud backup, I guess, because that’s the other alternative. Obviously, if you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have the sizes you were trying to do like an iTunes backup. What if you just said I’m just going to use iCloud backup for

⏹️ ▶️ John everything?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I suppose that probably yeah, because that I assume that would work.

⏹️ ▶️ John It would but it has other pain is that you’re waiting for the apps to download and waiting for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you to come back and then I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then I get none of my keychain items. So I have to re enter all my passwords everywhere and that sucks true like that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like I’d rather have a brief severe sucking of something then have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey then have like going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three days of annoyance as I have to reenter all the passwords into everything anyway yeah so this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone is ridiculous this is so big but I am kind of living with it right now and I really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want that that good camera setup and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sorry you said that’s a six plus or six s plus it’s a six plus which is interesting you know going back to you know I mean 3d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touch I don’t miss I hardly ever use it for anything I occasionally use it for cursor movement within a text

⏹️ ▶️ Marco block, but usually nothing else. I do miss the faster Touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensor quite a bit. That is a big thing I notice. And the 6 Plus, before the 6S Plus,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also was, it was the first Plus phone and it kind of didn’t have enough RAM and the GPU was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of not powerful enough. So like, there’s like animations a little bit sluggish sometimes and like, just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain things are like a little bit, ew, you know, but for the most part, it’s fine. I kind of,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it kind of makes me think like, wow, buying a new phone every year is kind of wasteful because this two year old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one is fine for the most part. It’s totally fine. It’s not great, it’s not fast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by my success standards, but it’s good enough for most of what I’m doing with it. Touch ID is slower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that sucks, but I’m living with it, it’s fine. But yeah, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though in so many ways it is worse, in so many ways it’s harder to hold,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still don’t like the way Springboard rotates. I still hate the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that apps like Mail and Messages get like the half iPad view in landscape mode.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And as a result of hating the way it does landscape in every possible way, I usually have to keep the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Plus Phone in rotation lock mode, which is great until I wanna look at a photo. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a little bit annoying in those ways, but I really do love having the additional screen space. I love typing on it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m way more accurate with the text input on it. Just because it’s a bigger keyboard, fits my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thumbs better, I guess. So, I guess I’m gonna go plus,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I’ll decide again in 24 hours when we have to order them. Oh my God,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, it’s a little over because it’s three in the morning.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll be in Pacific time though. I’ll be at XOXO.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey So I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be exhausted, but I’ll be awake. You jerk.