185: The Delaware of Europe
03 Sep 2016Also available on 17 floppy disks.
Episode Description:
- Pre-show:
- 🌊 The beach 🏖
- Laptop sizes and relative weight savings (Marco's tweet)
- Casey's iMac RAM update
- Hello Internet's vinyl episode
- Apple 1984 commercial
- StuffIt Expander
- OS/2 Warp
- Windows vs. OS X
- Feedback on Marco's Boot Camp woes
- App Store Improvements
- John's childhood artwork
- New iCloud 2TB storage option
- Apple's EU tax problems
- September 7th Apple Event
- Ending theme by Jonathan Mann
Sponsored by:
- Contentful: A content management developer platform with an API at its core.
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Chapters
- Marco discovers beaches
- Casey’s iMac update
- Podcasts on vinyl
- Follow-up: Boot Camp woes
- Sponsor: Contentful
- App Store spring cleaning
- Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
- John’s artwork 🖼️
- New iCloud 2TB plan
- Apple EU tax conflict
- Sponsor: Eero (code ATP)
- Event expectations: iPhone
- Event expectations: Mac
- Ending theme
- Post-show: Domain transfers
Marco discovers beaches
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been a long time. It has been a surprisingly long time. It was like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco two weeks ago, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes It was the 18th. So it’s two weeks in a day Wow, I missed you guys
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot has happened in the meantime Chiefly that I determined that I like the beach now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey How that is we should we should actually examine that
⏹️ ▶️ John How old are you now that it took so long?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well before you beat up on Marco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you that I just discovered I like the beach about two to three years and then maybe three years ago So apparently
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco and I are equally slow on this realization.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wrong with you guys How so how many times did you have to? Rent a house on the beach
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a few days to like it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually would say the first time we did that I liked it But but it is important
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to note that I was well into adulthood at this point And I don’t remember it was it with you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey guys. I was discussing this It might have been on the post show, but the pop-up what do they call them like awnings
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Shoot I forget
⏹️ ▶️ Marco call them umbrellas you push the middle and the you know tent the little tent
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s like a tent, but it’s just the roof part of the tent. So it’s like a big square That’s like yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John we saw a picture of your thing that you should never ever bring on a beach Why because that’s that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not a thing design. That’s for like having like a catered outdoor wedding
⏹️ ▶️ Casey beach Instant canopy is apparently what it’s officially called do not
⏹️ ▶️ John bring it to the beach
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know if you want a lot of shade from the Sun which is what I want when I go to the beach
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s a perfect way to do it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well but as discussed last time those those tend to have a pretty poor shade to weight ratio
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey awfully heavy yeah
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the amount of shade they provide we got we had a very large
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of extended umbrella so you like the idea you know you put it like diagonally down so like the pole is running
⏹️ ▶️ Marco diagonally with one end in the sand and then the other side just kind of resting on the sand but it has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like extra long flaps on two sides so it kind of makes like a tent but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s open on one side so you get a ton of shade in the total weight of an umbrella so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was pretty awesome
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah that works out nicely I’ve seen things like that so yeah so to go back a half step so the first time we rented
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a house that I will that I participated in anyway we had one of these instant canopies
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the point is not Not as much the instant canopy, just the fact that there’s shade. However
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you decide to get your shade umbrella, tenty thing, instant canopy, doesn’t matter. There’s shade. Indoors.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indoors. So I had shade. I had, I think the first year I went,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I read Ready Player One. And don’t listen to what John says about Ready Player One. It’s a great book. I also had booze.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that combination really worked out nicely for me. And ever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey since then, I’ve found that if I have shade and a book or a, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iOS device with a internet connection, and I don’t even need booze anymore, although it helps,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it actually is not too bad an experience. So what turned the corner for you, Marco? What made you decide this is not so bad?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So last year we went to the same place, Fire Island. We spent five days
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. So part of the problem was that I was really sick for most of that time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I wasn’t really able to fully enjoy the time. This year we were there for 7
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or 8 days, 8 days, and I was not sick. So even last year, the shorter time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and being fairly uncomfortable most of the time, I still enjoyed it last year. I still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoyed the place, I enjoyed walking around because while I don’t really care for the actual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco beach itself very much, I do like the ocean breeze,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the air, I do like the beach town and in Fire Island it’s pretty awesome because you just kind of walk
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around everywhere like there’s no cars and everything’s really kind of tightly packed on this little tiny strip of island so everything’s very walkable.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I really enjoyed that part of it last year but just it was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard to really enjoy the whole trip because of my condition. But this year I spent a little more time on the actual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco beach this year and I kind of learned how to make it work for me a little bit. I still don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco love like being in the sun or going in the water or eating seafood but I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to enjoy myself on the actual beach and then because we were there for longer and I was feeling better this year
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I greatly enjoyed the rest of the town and the week and the environment as well so basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really enjoyed it quite a bit and and and like eight days was enough time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like if you’re if you’re somewhere for like three to five days you kind of are still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in vacation like sightseeing kind of mode like active mode the whole time and And there’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain threshold, which I think I passed this trip, where if you’re somewhere for long enough, you kind of start
⏹️ ▶️ Marco living there. Does that make sense? It does, actually. I do know what you’re saying. Like, you kind of get kicked
⏹️ ▶️ Marco into a different mode. You’re like, okay, now this is just what it’s like to live here, basically, for a short time, as opposed to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco being active, doing stuff, vacation mode, you know, the whole time. So I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco got a brief sense of that living mode, and I really enjoyed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. So what made the beach itself bearable, though? Like I had said that, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, in the past, having booze and a book, and I should actually elaborate that having Declan there, particularly when he’s in a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey positive mood, which is usually, that’s also just tremendously fun. What turned the corner for you on the beach
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, so part of it was that, you know, part of it was that the entire family really enjoys it. So everyone’s happy,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s having fun. There’s always like stuff to do. Nobody’s ever bored. So that’s really nice. But also, you know, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just kind of figured out like how to sit in the shade for a little bit. I’ve kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of, I don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, it’s probably some of both, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m finally learning how to be able to turn my brain off for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more than like 20 minutes at a time. Like in the sense like I’m able to like relax
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not wish I was sitting at a computer getting stuff done all the time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this could be dangerous, like this could go too far and I never just never want to work again. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to try to get a better balance of that. And so I kind of got that this year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Last year, because I was pretty sick and it was a shorter time and I was right in the middle of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trying to write a piece, I actually worked a lot on that trip. I mostly stayed back at the house and everyone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco else went to the beach and I mainly just worked on my laptop. This year, I brought
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all my work with me. I thought I’d get a lot done and I got almost nothing done. would like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shockingly little considering like how how much I got done last year versus this year so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kind of learned how to take a vacation and it was to the point where like I when I came home I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really missed it which has never ever happened with any vacation I’ve ever taken that’s awesome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco every every vacation I ever take when I get home like oh thank God I’m home I can get back to everything this time I was like oh
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I miss vacation anyway so I’m broken forever how are you guys
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well I’m waiting for John to to completely eviscerate us for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey having just realized that the beach is a thing and you’ve been distressingly quiet John. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell us what what do you have to say about the beach?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that like it’s extra insulting that I’m also going to Fire Island, which I’m pretty sure is where John
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has gone for beaches for years.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I don’t go to Fire Island, but I go to other places. The only thing I think I have to add is that I
⏹️ ▶️ John have not wanted to work and love the beach since I was in single digit ages. So
⏹️ ▶️ John you. You just now getting to the point where you don’t want to work and love the beach, congratulations.
⏹️ ▶️ John the rest of the human race. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey way ahead of you
⏹️ ▶️ John on that curve. That’s what everybody wants to do is not work and go to the beach and you’re just like, you know what?
⏹️ ▶️ John The beach is fun, working sucks.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Turns out, I never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco knew. So there’s a few ways, actually there’s many ways in which I am a terrible geek
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by like typical geek standards. One of those things is I don’t like anime or Star Trek
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or fantasy like Lord of the Rings type stuff. You don’t know you don’t like anime. OK.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so anyway, I think in this way, John, I think you’re a bad geek.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think most geeks have the problem that I’ve had forever, which is not really being able to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco turn my brain off for more than a day or two without getting restless.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, that’s not a geek thing. That’s a workaholic thing. There’s a difference. Yep, concur.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I bet there’s a lot of overlap there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because it’s not necessarily that I want to do specific work. that I want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do some, like I want to do something. That’s why you’re a workaholic. But I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t want to work on like, you know, boring stuff to get it done. I want to work on like, weird mp3 encoders and stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you’re also bad at relaxing. When you were describing like, oh, I finally got into like the vacation mode, where
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like you’re living there. It’s like, no, you just finally relaxed. Like, and it’s true. Merlin talks about this too, how
⏹️ ▶️ John like he goes on a vacation, takes him like three days to do, to get into whatever mode. He has another weird phrase. But
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just like, you have to learn how to relax. and that’s another skill that I’ve always been very good at. I’m really good at relaxing.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m an expert at relaxing.
⏹️ ▶️ John fact, I think most people are. Most people, if you said, starting now, sit on your butt and
⏹️ ▶️ John do nothing, they just descend into a little puddle and be like, ah. But some other people, it takes a while to sort
⏹️ ▶️ John of, to untie the 700 twisty ties that are around there, invisible twisty ties that
⏹️ ▶️ John are around their brain at all times and just slowly unwind them and turn and turn. And then
⏹️ ▶️ John finally they release and you can go, ah. and then you go home after the vacations over
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and i did finally i was thinking of you john much of the time because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as i was trying to like manage having a big camera and my phone at the beach of course
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sand is everywhere sand in my pockets you know what else is people’s pockets sand you know like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco i was thinking of you and your quotes from this show going back years of you every
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time i was at the beach like doing something
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah so how did your how’d your big fancy camera fair in the hostile environment of the beach
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very well actually I did funnily enough I did appreciate when I had the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slightly longer lens on I brought
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey the I brought the 35
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the 55 primes and the the 35
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pictures were decent but I was happier in general with the 55 pictures
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so and I got a lot of amazing pictures and just destroyed my laptop trying to process them in light room
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on battery which is hilarious but
⏹️ ▶️ John so how far how far were you out in the water with the expensive camera like ankles knees
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well I was I was still in the wave zone so like not necessarily a fixed depth
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but at the closest I would let it get was like like the bottom of my shorts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like once I was that deep I would hold the camera up above my head if it was like a big wave coming in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or like and there were I think twice it got a little bit of splash on it but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but otherwise it was pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John I think for someone with not a lot of beach experience I don’t think you realize exactly how close you were that entire
⏹️ ▶️ John time to destroying your camera because you’re like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oh you know the
⏹️ ▶️ John wave comes I’ll hold it up but you don’t realize that like all it takes is one false move or not paying attention
⏹️ ▶️ John for two seconds in one way that’s a little bit bigger than the other ones to put you’re on your butt and put that camera
⏹️ ▶️ John in the water so I think you you’re pretty lucky and pretty brave to go out even that deep with your camera.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think you might be overestimating how deep I was it was literally like I was only in like the wave splash zone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the most I got was if if the wave at maximum splash
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was tall enough to get the bottom of my shorts wet
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah those waves did look pretty small though and a few pictures you had but yeah like you if the water is touching
⏹️ ▶️ John your bathing suit yeah you think I’m fine right especially because when the big one comes that so much water will
⏹️ ▶️ John go out that it’ll just be barely touching your ankles and you’ll take two steps in and the big one comes you’re not paying attention sploosh
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I’m glad you dodged the bullet and managed to keep your camera alive
⏹️ ▶️ John and take some good pictures.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I really got a lot of great pictures, and I spent a lot of time just like picking through them and lightly processing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco them, posting a few some Instagram. I finally started I think now I’m kind of getting what vacation is about.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Funnily enough, though, every time I take a vacation where I have my giant 15
⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch MacBook Pro, I am so happy I have that 15-inch MacBook Pro
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not anything smaller or weaker.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the things I do on vacation, either I need nothing from it or I need all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the power and screen space I can get. So my previously stated plans about maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to a 13-inch MacBook Pro when the new ones come out, those plans are out the window and I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to either keep what I have or get the new 15. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I honestly don’t understand how anyone who doesn’t travel for a living has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything smaller than a 15-inch laptop. I typically do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not use my work laptop at home, and it’s always clamshelled at work.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Whether or not you think that’s a smart choice, whatever. But the point is, I very rarely use the screen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the laptop, but every time I do, I couldn’t agree with you more.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t understand how anyone could do anything productive with less real estate. Again, if you’re traveling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey professionally, totally get that. But for regular humans, oh, 15 all the way. Tim Cynova
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah. I tweeted the other day, I pissed everybody off, where
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I said basically, as I’m using my laptop, the things I want are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better battery and faster. The thing I don’t really care about is make it 15% lighter,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever measurement I used. And this got a lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people angry because they were saying I walk with mine to work every day blah blah blah And I would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco love for it to be 15% lighter And I get that because I used to do that too. I did that for years The majority of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the time I worked at tumblr I was walking with a laptop in a bag Pretty far every day and most of the time it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was 15 inch and this was back when the 15 inch was like 5.7 pounds now I think they’re 4.5, and they’re probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about to get lighter so like I Know what that’s like in fact much of that time I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also had an SLR and a couple lenses in the bag with me as well, which was not kind of my
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shoulders So I get that if you’re walking with it back and forth that does that does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know the total weight of it does matter however when you get down to like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have like already a four and a half or whatever pound laptop if The weight savings brings it down like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco let’s say let’s say it’s a pretty good savings Let’s say it goes from four and a half pounds to four pounds That’s a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco substantial savings in the world of like, you know laptop upgrades basically suppose they blow it out of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the water somehow, which I think is unrealistic, but let’s say they go to three and a half. So let’s say they shave a whole pound off of it. Again,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s unrealistic. But if they do that, the total weight of the bag you’re carrying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is probably like 15 pounds. Like people carry a lot of stuff in their bags, the bag itself weighs a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco empty. If you’re carrying a power adapter or not, that’s like another like almost pound. People carry
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much that if you really, really need to save half a pound or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one pound in the carry weight of your bag, there are probably many other ways you can do that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re carrying enough stuff, you actually might not quite notice that very much. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, I think people, when they speculate on how much they need laptop
⏹️ ▶️ Marco weight savings in these little increments, I think they might be overestimating how much they would actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice that in practice, how much difference it would actually make in practice, and ignoring ways that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could save that in some other way. in some other way. So for example, like one of the ways I save weight when I was walking to and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from work with laptops every day is I just got a second power adapter and kept one at work. So I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco never had a power adapter in my bag. And that alone, and these are, you know, this was a 15 inch day. So that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a pound right there, you know, like simple stuff like that. And, you know, like if you carry,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, an iPad, or, you know, maybe don’t maybe don’t carry the keyboard, like there’s stuff like that. Like there’s,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are ways you can, you can either spend a bit of money to have have some redundancy on both ends,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in things like power adapters or accessories, or just make some tough decisions about do I really need to carry
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing. If carry weight’s a big problem, I highly suggest using a backpack and not a messenger bag.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, there’s lots of other ways you can do this that will have way larger effects than if your laptop
⏹️ ▶️ Marco alone, with no other changes, got 15% lighter. I agree.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, we should probably do a little bit of follow-up now that we’re 20
⏹️ ▶️ Casey minutes into the program. Just a little.
Casey’s iMac update
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’d like to start with a couple of notes. First of all, I have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey returned my 32 gigs of RAM.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey received 32 replacement gigs of RAM and my uptime is currently nine days.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Are you plugged into the UPS? Yes, I am. And I’m expecting the…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Are you recording in MOV format?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am recording in every freaking format under
⏹️ ▶️ John What color are you recording in? Are you recording in mauve? Yeah. That’s not even how you pronounce the color.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my goodness. But anyway, so I have nine days uptime so far. We’ll see if it continues. Of course,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now I have several system updates I’ve been putting off for my testing purposes. So please
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t hack me. But so far, so good as I knock very quietly on wood.
Podcasts on vinyl
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have not yet looked at the Reddit because I don’t really go to Reddit ever.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I haven’t been trolling their mentions because I haven’t had the time nor the inclination. However,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if the entire internet isn’t beating the piss out of Hello Internet for issuing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an episode on vinyl, then I give up because I paid the price for saying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that vinyl may not be an embarrassment for months. And here it is,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re releasing an entire special episode of Hello internet on vinyl if all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of you jerks aren’t going after
⏹️ ▶️ John really I didn’t even know
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey on vacation if all of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you jerks aren’t going after them like you went after me then I’m sorely disappointed because they deserve
⏹️ ▶️ John you shouldn’t be because they’re doing it as a joke get it it’s funny and on the show where they talk
⏹️ ▶️ John about it they both they throw in a few digs at the people who think vinyl sounds better haha those
⏹️ ▶️ John people what are they thinking right like so they’re on they’re on the right side there on the on this whole thing and the whole
⏹️ ▶️ John idea is that it’s it’s silly and a joke the entire thing is a joke so why would people make fun if they had released
⏹️ ▶️ John it and said finally people can listen to our voices in a higher fidelity format then people would be
⏹️ ▶️ John on them believe me but that’s not what they said
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love I wonder like how many people who who so this is this is apparently extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sold out now how many people who buy this have a way to even play it like if I I was discussed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the program like I went here to come by it but like if if I even could get myself
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a copy which I can’t right now they’re sold out but if I could get one I’d have to like go to my mom’s house or go to Casey’s dad’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco house to actually play it and by the way because vinyl Is so stupid it’s only 45 minutes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco long you have to flip it in the middle
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You clearly did not live through the laserdisc era
⏹️ ▶️ John they should have used smart speed to record it I could have been more on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well yeah at least lasers players They would most of them would would the whole head would flip so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you didn’t have to move the desk but uh But yeah, it’s I’m glad you pointed out that you’d have to go to my dad’s house because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I Really don’t think most people understand that I don’t even have a record player I don’t have a turntable because I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t have the space nor the inclination for it, but it’s a terrible In any case
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I expect the internet. I expect the internet to say hello Hello internet you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey guys are idiots because that’s what you did to me and I understand the distinction But you but you
⏹️ ▶️ John shouldn’t expect it. You understand it’s a joke. Do you understand that on the program? They directly address the thing that
⏹️ ▶️ John everyone was yelling at you about
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and this is the opposite of what you said
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, sort of I heard it. I heard it. But anyway, so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, so all of you jerks you can go after them now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can we release an episode on cassette? Sure, maybe actually though, you know, we should do many disc
⏹️ ▶️ Casey floppy disk a track god you are old and Floppy disk, you’re not gonna get a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John of space right? You
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have to flip that it just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco keeps playing That’s true. If we really cram down the bitrate and do like HEAAC
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m pretty sure we can get like 10 minutes on a floppy.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe no it should come on like 17 floppy disks
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I remember I took
⏹️ ▶️ John the I think I’ve told the story before but the my biggest floppy disk stories you remember the
⏹️ ▶️ John 1984 Apple commercial well in the early days of QuickTime Apple put out a QuickTime version
⏹️ ▶️ John of the 1984 commercial which must have been in like lower resolution than a
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac OS icon is today. And it was like with the Cinepak compression algorithm, it looked terrible
⏹️ ▶️ John and it was really small. But I was so excited to have it. Like I had a digital version of that
⏹️ ▶️ John commercial today. You know, because back before you had a video on the internet, how many times as a Mac fan had
⏹️ ▶️ John you seen the Apple 1984 commercial? On like on the Clio Awards, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John retrospectives and stuff like that, but in general, you tended not to see the ad anywhere. You couldn’t just go look
⏹️ ▶️ John at it on YouTube. There was no YouTube, there was no video. So finally I had a copy on video. But the only way I could store it
⏹️ ▶️ John anywhere was to put it on floppy disks because that was my only removable media. So I did a multi-part Stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John It Expander archive on 25 parts and on 25 floppy disks. Oh my God.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I still have like a rubber band around the thing. It’s like 25 floppy disks. And if I was to take them,
⏹️ ▶️ John put each floppy disk in, piece at a time onto like a hard drive or something and then reassemble them into whole,
⏹️ ▶️ John then decompress it, I would have a tiny postage stamp size video of this commercial.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So my favorite Floppy Disk story, which I’ve mentioned probably on the show before, was when
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was a kid, we ran OS2 at home because dad worked for IBM. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can say a bunch of terrible things about OS2, but in some ways it was superior. God, this doesn’t sound
⏹️ ▶️ Casey familiar at all, does it? But anyway, yeah, so OS2 was the vinyl of operating systems.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In some ways it was superior, but I got my hand, while dad
⏹️ ▶️ Casey got his hands on a beta of OS2 Warp. And that thing was on, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey kid you not, something like 50 floppy disks. Well, they were the,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what was it, three and a half? So they weren’t really floppy at that point. But anyway, the three and a half inch disk.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They were internally floppy. Yeah, right? And so I remember installing that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing, took me like 14 weeks, because it was just sit there and wait across each of these disks. It was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, this is why I’m not nostalgic about vinyl, because I grew up with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a record player in the house that my mom used regularly and that I would occasionally use as well.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it annoyed me. And I grew up then, eventually when computers happened, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco grew up with five and a quarter and then three and a half inch floppy disks and lived through cassette
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tapes before CDs were a thing. So all these old technologies, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us looking back on vinyl, I think is going to be like if if our children when they are old enough to to become
⏹️ ▶️ Marco their own version of hipsters when they look but if they have like fond recollections
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of cassette tapes even like they really kind of never use them and they’re terrible like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know vinyl to me is I don’t see why it’s any better than cassette tapes and cassette tapes themselves
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are terrible and we moved on and I’ve moved on and the world has moved on and everyone has moved on
Follow-up: Boot Camp woes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So speaking of moving
⏹️ ▶️ Casey things, let’s talk about installing operating systems on one machine and then moving to another.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, geez, I forgot about this. Yeah, a lot of people are angry at Marco because
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco said mean things about Windows and he was angry and now people are angry that he was angry.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m mostly setting that aside because I feel like Marco has taken his medicine from all the Windows users
⏹️ ▶️ John who have emailed him to tell him what he said is wrong
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and hurtful. Oh, no, I have opinions about that.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco God. All right.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, anyway, you can address that. But the only reason I put this in here is because one of one of the points that was brought up and in fact, I
⏹️ ▶️ John brought up in the program was the idea that Marco was going to install Windows onto an external drive and boot
⏹️ ▶️ John multiple, possibly different machines from like boot a laptop, not just to five k IMAX, but
⏹️ ▶️ John boot a laptop from it and then or install Windows when it’s connected to a laptop, then use that same disk to boot the five
⏹️ ▶️ John k IMAX, which has very different hardware. And many windows wrote in to tell us, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John why did you ever think that would work and like I said on the program that’s a bad idea for a variety of reasons.
⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s not just as you know Mac or Apple fans might think because
⏹️ ▶️ John OS X is better and Windows is crappy because OS X as most Mac users know you can install
⏹️ ▶️ John that on a disconnected to pretty much any computer and then plug it into pretty much any other computer and
⏹️ ▶️ John it boots that computer fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Which one person wrote in to say you know OS X wouldn’t work that way either and yeah it actually does work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that way the vast majority of the time.
⏹️ ▶️ John I replied to the I replied to the person yeah, it doesn’t but here’s the thing all right So this is all true. It does work that
⏹️ ▶️ John way and if you’re mostly a Mac user or mostly recently a Mac user You might think
⏹️ ▶️ John that Windows work the same way like it’s a reasonable mistake Not quite as reasonable for Marco has spent a long time with Windows, but still we’ll set
⏹️ ▶️ John that aside But like I said the reason OS 10 works that way and Windows doesn’t is not
⏹️ ▶️ John because Microsoft is dumb and Apple is smart in this particular case It’s because it’s basically impossible
⏹️ ▶️ John for Windows to do what OS 10 does OS 10 installs everything in its OS installation,
⏹️ ▶️ John all the drivers, just everything on there, because why not? It only supports a very limited range of hardware.
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple knows every piece of hardware in every single machine that is officially supported by this operating system,
⏹️ ▶️ John and that set of hardware is small. Windows can’t take every
⏹️ ▶️ John driver for every machine that Windows can possibly run on and install it, because your installation would be
⏹️ ▶️ John gigantic. It’s literally impossible. There’s too many drivers from too many different places. They have to do
⏹️ ▶️ John a thing where they do kind of like a custom install for just the hardware that you have. Now you might say
⏹️ ▶️ John that Windows could then, after boot up time, be smarter about pulling down new drivers on demand or whatever, but
⏹️ ▶️ John anything involved in the boot process or like getting the video driver to work so your thing can even get to the point where it’s downloading stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s very complicated. Like basically the option that Apple goes with is not available to Microsoft.
⏹️ ▶️ John They cannot say we’re just gonna install these same files in every single Windows installation and then it’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John boot every single computer. So if you had thought about it for a little even if you had no experience here for Windows, you would think,
⏹️ ▶️ John wait, they can’t do the Apple thing, which is kind of a shame, and it’s Microsoft’s
⏹️ ▶️ John own fault for having the business model that brought them to massive dominance of the PC industry for most of my
⏹️ ▶️ John entire life. But here it is, boomeranging back around, and it means that Marco
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t get a game to work in a timely fashion.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so, a couple of very small updates to that story. Basically, so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the hatred for my actions in this story, which again was quite strong.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Most of the hatred focused on a few key points. Number one was, I can’t believe you expected that to work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by having an external drive installation move between computers as you covered just now. Yeah, you’re right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I shouldn’t have expected that to work. I forgot how picky Windows was about drivers. I haven’t used Windows reliably, or I haven’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco used Windows really at all in about 10 years. And I haven’t used it heavily in about 12
⏹️ ▶️ Marco years, so yeah. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John Adam, before you move on to the next thing, There is a somewhat reasonable chance that
⏹️ ▶️ John you could have thought that this would work because you were of course installing the bootcamp drivers and the bootcamp
⏹️ ▶️ John drivers are in exactly the same situation as like they only have to support a limited amount of hardware. So in theory,
⏹️ ▶️ John perhaps the bootcamp drivers, had they been really good and comprehensive, could
⏹️ ▶️ John have installed the full set of drivers that would boot any bootcamp capable machine, but obviously they did not do that and we’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John heard from many people that the bootcamp drivers are a little bit old and creaky and have not kept up with the advancements
⏹️ ▶️ John in Windows, which doesn’t surprise me because Apple’s support for bootcamp always seems kind of half-hearted in the last,
⏹️ ▶️ John let’s say, half-decade.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, but yeah, to be fair, that is the assumption I made. Secondly,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the issue came up that I did hit the skip activation thing, or it reminded me later about activation and setup.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The reason why I hit that is not because I was being lazy, and I forgot to mention this during the show, it’s because I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco knew, people had told me, that if you activate on the external drive you plug into their computer it’ll break
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the activation and you have to reactivate by calling Microsoft or whatever you have to do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I knew that was a risk so I was waiting until it was going to be on the computer that the game was going to be played
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on to activate. So I was trying to get the whole thing set up on my laptop so I wouldn’t have to disturb
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tiff’s computer and it’s uptime because she was working on it. So I was trying to get it all set up on my laptop
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first and then I was going to move the drive over there, activate it there so it wouldn’t break and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco move on. There’s also ways that you can get like you know pirate keys volume license keys get around this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I was doing this legally so you know I couldn’t I had to actually follow the the wonderfully abusive
⏹️ ▶️ Marco legitimate customer restrictions thank you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah that’s that’s the penalty I get for doing things legally and finally the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the argument that I was being unfair to Windows and that Windows doesn’t suck
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I am on that I suck for saying that Windows is stupid I respectfully disagree.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even though some of the things I did were not correct, Windows is stupid and it does suck. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco totally address that email. Yes, totally. Good counter argument.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yes. We’ll summarize that in all caps by saying no U with the
⏹️ ▶️ John O and the U transposed. One more tidbit on Inside before we move on to
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco’s fame and glory. If you want to hear both me and Tiff talk about inside,
⏹️ ▶️ John as played on both the Mac and PS4, there will be an upcoming episode of The Incomparable that we are both on where we
⏹️ ▶️ John discuss it and I hope Marco was far away from the room when that was going on because we spoiled the whole thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I actually I went to the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco entire other side of the house just so I wouldn’t overhear anything. Good plan.
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, play the game, then listen to The Incomparable.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We have a new sponsor this week. be sponsored by Contentful!
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Today, no, was it yesterday? Yesterday, I’m sorry. The App Store
⏹️ ▶️ Casey made some news and then I think it was a little bit more today as well. So
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yesterday, Apple has said that they’re going to start removing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey old and busted apps from the store. That’s my summary, but that’s basically what it amounts to.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they also said that the names of apps can no longer be something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like Tweetbot, a power user’s Twitter client or something like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, they’re probably still a fit.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you know what I mean. So it has to be 50 characters or less. And the idea is they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t want you gaming their piss-poor search by adding search
⏹️ ▶️ Casey keywords and terms into your app title. So they expect the app
⏹️ ▶️ Casey titles to be 50 characters or less. Awesome. This is great news. I’m really pleased by
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this. So I have nothing really—I have not much more to say. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fastex would have run afoul of this, most likely, and to be honest, that’s a good thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is a very, very good thing in general. I mean, you know, if you look at like—they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little light on the specifics of what they’re going to prune out, but basically it’s like, you know, if the app crashes on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco launch, it’ll be removed immediately. So like, you know, if you have some some old app that no longer literally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t even work, they’re just pulling it with no warning to the developer, just, you know, oh, well, you know, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also they’re enforcing basically, if there’s any new rules that weren’t around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco when the app first passed app review, but it is actually violating those rules, then they are retroactively
⏹️ ▶️ Marco enforcing them. So basically, like, you know, it used to be that if you got through once,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or before the rule was in effect, you could basically keep doing it forever. as long as you didn’t update your app, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, you know, not a great system. So they’re kind of closing that loophole. Now they’re going to go back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and re-review apps under modern rules. And if they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no longer pass the rules because the rules have changed or something slipped through,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they will now be enforcing that on those apps and removing them if they have to. And then the big thing, which I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is more interesting, is basically… I forget exactly how to phrase it. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unmaintained or abandoned apps. They haven’t said specifically what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that means, but what I assume that would mean are things like if you still don’t have a 64-bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco binary, because I’m assuming part of the reason they’re doing this is to get the app store ready for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a future version of iOS, probably iOS 11 that doesn’t have 32-bit support at all and won’t launch 32-bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps at all. Things like if you still don’t have retina support or if you still don’t have support
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the larger screens on the phones. On the iPad, I’ll be interested to see
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how strict they will be, because the iPad has a lot more challenges in this department. iPads
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were non-retina for longer, and a lot of iPad software got written in the non-retina days and then never updated,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it wasn’t worth it to pay some consultants to update your software or to rewrite games or whatever else.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I wonder, are they going to be as strict on the iPad.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The 12.9 inch iPad launched and it’s really crappy to use 9.7 inch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps on the 12.9 inch iPad, especially if you have to use the keyboard for any kind of text
⏹️ ▶️ Marco input. The on-screen keyboard is horrible when it gets blown up. So it’ll be interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to see basically how strictly they enforce that kind of unmaintained and abandoned
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rule. Assuming it applies to things like supporting new screen sizes and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, new, you know, modern builds that include the right architecture and stuff like that. But then basically, how strict will they be?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what else will include?
⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t imagine them doing the screen size thing, because I mean, unless they include other factories, because I have
⏹️ ▶️ John apps from large multinational corporations that are upgraded, updated very frequently,
⏹️ ▶️ John that still don’t support my iPhone six screen size, you know, you can tell from like the slightly too
⏹️ ▶️ John big keyboard and everything. And these are not abandoned. These apps that are frequently updated bugs or fix features
⏹️ ▶️ John are added, and yet they still don’t support the screen size. So I don’t think that qualifies
⏹️ ▶️ John as abandoned. And I don’t think Apple can politically speaking, pull apps like that under
⏹️ ▶️ John the guise of we’re cleaning out abandoned things. The 64 bit 32 bit Yeah, because that’s coming no
⏹️ ▶️ John matter what anyway, and they’re just laying the groundwork but screen size I don’t think especially like
⏹️ ▶️ John I think their definition of abandoned has to be some set of those things plus also has
⏹️ ▶️ John not been updated in six months or a year or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe but I don’t know. I mean, Because some of these things they can enforce at the iTunes Connect level.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So they could say, iTunes Connect no longer accepts apps that are 32-bit only, which it probably hasn’t for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what, over a year now? They could say things like iTunes Connect no longer support, or no longer will allow you to submit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an app that doesn’t support the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus screen sizes. And then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco six months after that, they can say, well, if you don’t support these screen sizes and haven’t updated your app in over six months,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a loophole if they want to. And that is probably how some of these things will play out. But I mean, one thing, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, most apps that do that, like if they’re still getting updates, like the, actually the official Tesla app
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is one of these apps, where the Tesla app is, it gets updates like every few
⏹️ ▶️ Marco months, but it still doesn’t support the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus screen sizes. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has the modern keyboard and everything, but it’s just, it’s still just not supporting larger screens, because like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s all like pixel perfect iOS 6 style designed, and I assume they don’t want to like, go back and pay somebody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to redesign it, to blow it up and everything. But that’s kind of crappy. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they can use this to push companies to update their
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ancient broken apps that they’re basically just not updating out of laziness, or not moving to modern stuff because of laziness,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or just not wanting to allocate the funds for it, this is probably a good thing. It’s definitely a good thing for users.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And for developers who are in the consulting business, it is almost certainly a good thing, this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey is probably going to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a big boon to consulting because all these companies that have all these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ancient iPhone and iPad apps, they didn’t really have any kind of push before to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to put more money into them but now they’re going to have a big push if Apple says you need to update this to support
⏹️ ▶️ Marco X or we’re gonna pull you out of the App Store in 30 days.
⏹️ ▶️ John I still think the vast majority of this is gonna be cleaning out the crap that no one has looked at in forever that it also isn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John making any more money so I think the vast majority of the garbage is just just crap that was released
⏹️ ▶️ John once never updated stopped making money three and a half years ago and it’s just in the store like and and
⏹️ ▶️ John the the meta story about this has everyone who has written anything about it has pointed out and as i think is obvious to
⏹️ ▶️ John everybody looking at it is this marks the end of the era when apple is uh touting the number
⏹️ ▶️ John of applications in the app store as their prime measure of how awesome they’re doing it’s like i mean they should have stopped this long
⏹️ ▶️ John ago because as i think we’ve all talked about on past programs over the years. Once you get
⏹️ ▶️ John into the hundreds of thousands or millions, the number of apps you have in the App Store is a detriment
⏹️ ▶️ John to the user experience, not not a boon. So, you know, because it’s just especially when
⏹️ ▶️ John your search is horrendous, Apple. But yeah, so like the app, the App Store is better
⏹️ ▶️ John if they delete several hundred thousand crap apps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s exactly the thing. I mean, like the search is a is a massive angle to this, like, you know, so the other
⏹️ ▶️ Marco side, you know, as you said, at first, like They’re prohibiting spamming your app with keywords that are not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco related to what it does, and they’re setting a cap on 50 characters now. I don’t know what the cap was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before, but I’ve seen some pretty long app titles. It’s basically like four sentences after
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first word of describing all the things it does, and mentioning every big app. Like, oh, this works for Instagram and Twitter, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the spammers. But a lot of this, like, these things wouldn’t be as big of a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem in the app store if the search was better. And so a lot of critics have pointed out, rightly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so, that like these things are nice, but if you just fix the search like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you know it would yeah it would be crap to but Google exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco find stuff on it exactly so it is it is kind of I mean on one hand it’s a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit frustrating that like Apple is kind of jumping through hoops to do things that better search would alleviate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the other hand it seems pretty clear that better search is not coming yeah that Apple just isn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very good at at search especially on the whoever manages App Store search, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever they’re doing over there, whatever methods and algorithms they’re using, they just can’t seem to pull
⏹️ ▶️ Marco together a really good search. And so if it’s not going to happen, then you might as well do things around it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to alleviate how crappy it is for people.
⏹️ ▶️ John So they should do both. Like I’m assuming they are doing both, but this is like the easy first thing to do. Like it really
⏹️ ▶️ John is a benefit to, like because the App Store is not the web. Like you just mentioned the web, like the web is just
⏹️ ▶️ John full of crap and the magic. For Google, it finds out the pages that are actually worth you finding even though millions and millions
⏹️ ▶️ John of pages match whatever you type into the search box they find the one that is the best match meaning a not just a spammy
⏹️ ▶️ John abandoned where you know like but Google doesn’t control the web entirely yet
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey clean out yeah they can’t
⏹️ ▶️ John clean out the crappy web pages but the whole idea behind the App Store if you had read
⏹️ ▶️ John any story about the App Store in the first few years your chances of seeing the word curated in the article
⏹️ ▶️ John were very, very high. And what Apple has done with the App Store
⏹️ ▶️ John does not really fit any reasonable definition of curated, because if you were curating
⏹️ ▶️ John any kind of collection of anything, you just wouldn’t allow this kind of crap to A,
⏹️ ▶️ John enter it in the first place, which they’ve been getting better about, hey, we don’t need any more fart apps, remember that era, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And B, you wouldn’t let it sit there. Curating means realizing that there is 300,000 applications the
⏹️ ▶️ John crass on launch that haven’t been downloaded in several years, except for by poor unsuspecting people who
⏹️ ▶️ John get bad results from your terrible search, right? Curating means you’ve got to clean that crap out. Yes, they should
⏹️ ▶️ John make search better, but you should also do this. Otherwise, don’t pretend that you’re really curating. All you’re really doing
⏹️ ▶️ John is exerting control, but you don’t care about the state of the collection. All you care about is
⏹️ ▶️ John like the gate. Like we don’t want to let any apps in that violate our current set of arbitrary rules,
⏹️ ▶️ John but once they’re in, whatever. We don’t curate the collection. We just curate the door. You know, we’re just the bouncer,
⏹️ ▶️ John but once you get in, you can die on the floor and slowly decompose and we won’t even look at you.
⏹️ ▶️ John That analogy got a little grim in the end. But
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah, a little bit.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh goodness. And then Apple has also updated their official
⏹️ ▶️ Casey review guidelines, I guess is what happened. And they’ve made some clarifications about subscriptions, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is interesting to several people. And Marco, you caught wind of this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did. sites now that basically provide diffs for like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anytime Apple changes the review guidelines, there’s sites now that will just tell you like, here’s what changed. It will even like alert you,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sometimes it will email you, or they’ll tweet about it. It’s pretty great services.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, everyone immediately notices that, oh, the review guidelines have had some modifications
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and some of it is simple expected stuff to things like sticker pack rules
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the upcoming iOS 10 launch that’s probably happening probably next week or sometime very soon.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so that’s cool, but then they also basically clarified the auto-renewing subscription
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rules a little bit because you know as we learned early in the summer right before WWDC, they announced they were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bringing subscriptions basically allowing them for all categories of apps not just like publications anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they were it was kind of left vague and unstated and and then later
⏹️ ▶️ Marco slightly clarified by Phil Schiller on the talk show live actually, WBDC, about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, could like productivity apps just charge a subscription for updates?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you know, like basically, could you charge a subscription for just using the app instead of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like content that was being delivered or a web service or anything else? And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was left unspecified and vague until yesterday when they basically said, I forget exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they said, but it was like, it was a list of things that would be most likely permitted. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re still a little noncommittal, and it basically, it’s like you have to basically submit and try, but it was always that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. But one of the things in the list of examples that would be permitted was apps that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have continued, that have like frequent and substantial updates.
⏹️ ▶️ John Close, so close, if only there were a way for you to know what that rule said.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, if only, if only I would have done some homework.
⏹️ ▶️ John Casey and I are both staring at it, as you say. There’s no way to really know what was said exactly. But
⏹️ ▶️ John if it had been in the notes and somehow put into bold texts,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, there it is. Look at that.
⏹️ ▶️ John you would know exactly which part you should look at.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tabs. We’re still in follow-up?
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No, this should have
⏹️ ▶️ John been moved. This should have moved
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco now. This is a topic.
⏹️ ▶️ John This was before the second part of the story came out about the, you know, 50 character limit and the whatever. Like, so, anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John this would have been follow-up on, because we were all, at least I was, remember being very angry about this rule,
⏹️ ▶️ John because the written rule and what Phil said seemed to be at odds. And it was like, just make it
⏹️ ▶️ John clear. like it doesn’t really matter what Phil Schiller says, because you can’t submit your app and then say, well, Phil Schiller said that this
⏹️ ▶️ John thing I saw at WWDC, like that’s not how rules work. You have to, like if you’re writing rules, make them as clear
⏹️ ▶️ John as you possibly can. And it was frustrating to me that it didn’t seem like Apple had
⏹️ ▶️ John its act together. And we were questioning like, does that mean that if you make an application for like
⏹️ ▶️ John a productivity app or whatever, and you just offer updates every year or so like major updates,
⏹️ ▶️ John can you make a subscription to that or not? That’s what we all wanted to know. the clarification in the exact
⏹️ ▶️ John words of the type of things that can allow for subscription pricing are apps that offer
⏹️ ▶️ John consistent substantive updates, which is not particularly precise,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it clearly lays out you don’t need to have new game levels or episodic
⏹️ ▶️ John content or anything like that, just consistent support, consistent updates and
⏹️ ▶️ John substantive updates. So that’s still open to interpretation, but it doesn’t say anything about you being
⏹️ ▶️ John a media app, Anything about you being a game anything about you having like a magazine
⏹️ ▶️ John issues or new content It just merely says you got updated. There’s gotta be subsist consistent
⏹️ ▶️ John and there has to be something in them They have to be like not just oh I added, you know, I had one tiny little tweak
⏹️ ▶️ John here one new preference, right? And so I think that’s what people want They just wanted to know clearance for like, okay
⏹️ ▶️ John if I think and then it’s just arguing over what counts as a substantive update and I I think if
⏹️ ▶️ John people do a 2.0 and it’s got like, like if you did a 2.0 and it includes streaming, you’d win that argument with
⏹️ ▶️ John any reasonable person if you were allowed to have it and say, that’s a substantial update. This is a major feature, major new capabilities.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you had a subscription pricing to Overcast, 1.0 didn’t have streaming and 2.0 did, I think everybody,
⏹️ ▶️ John including Apple, would be all thumbs up on that. And that’s all we were looking for back when this rule came out, just
⏹️ ▶️ John to understand the scope of subscription and then we can just argue about the details. Right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it still is going to be like, you still have to submit kind of blindly and just hope
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they allow you to do it. But this at least gives you a pretty good indication that like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re using this responsibly, they will probably allow it.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can start development. Like that’s the best thing about it. It’s like before you didn’t even know whether it was worthwhile to start developing. Now you can start development.
⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like if you get rejected, they can say, oh, that’s not a substantial enough update. And you can say, okay, well, I’ll just
⏹️ ▶️ John work more and add more features. And presumably at some point you could say, now this surely is worthy of a
⏹️ ▶️ John substantial update. And now I, you know, of course, if you take too long, then your updates are no longer consistent. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like this gives people the cover they need to begin development, which is all anyone really wants to know. Like, am I
⏹️ ▶️ John wasting my time entirely on this? Or if I if I’m acting in good faith with my understanding of how this
⏹️ ▶️ John works, the language is now on the same page with what Phil Schiller said, and I feel like it should make everybody
⏹️ ▶️ John relax and feel better. He says foolishly before everyone gets rejected for major updates, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco we’ll see how this works out.
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey John posted a week ago a collection of scans, I presume, or perhaps
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pictures of old artwork that he had done, generally speaking, as a kid. I found
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this fascinating, and we’ll put links to all these pieces in the show notes. basically it was on John’s Instagram
⏹️ ▶️ Casey account, profile, whatever you call it. I had known John that you fancied yourself
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a bit of an artist when you were a kid. And I thought that meant that your, your artistic skills
⏹️ ▶️ Casey were better than just stick figures, which puts you ahead of almost everyone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know. Then I see all these pictures and I realized, holy crap, like you,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if you knew this, but you could like really, really draw really, really well. Yeah, they were really good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So FYI, that’s the thing
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like you don’t read anything that I write. It’s like the first hypercritical thing that I wrote What’s the first line of that? It’s like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a goodfellas reference even Double whammy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Look, we we knew from following you and reading and listening to your stuff. We knew that you used to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Some kind of artist but we know we didn’t know like the degree Or what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you drew really all we knew is that you had said that you had done it for a while And you were too critical
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about it, and you couldn’t get over how critical you were of your own
⏹️ ▶️ John No, you gotta reread that to understand. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John The point of that thing was, yes, in the beginning, was, you know, as far
⏹️ ▶️ John back as I can remember, blah, blah, blah. I was told I wanted to grow up to be an artist. And then you read the whole thing, you realize, like, why
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t I do that? It’s because my actual skill wasn’t artistic talent, which is why I didn’t pursue
⏹️ ▶️ John it. My actual skill was being able to draw something and look at it and know what was wrong with it. And then you just fix it and you just repeat
⏹️ ▶️ John that process. And if you just keep repeating it, the picture gets better and better the longer you work on it. But that’s not how that’s not how
⏹️ ▶️ John real artists work. Well, they kind of how they work. But anyway, I realized my own limitations.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco In all fairness, you have you have made a very good living by being a complainer professionally.
⏹️ ▶️ John Exactly. If you’re going to look at where you’re going to make more money, drawing pictures that during copies of other people’s
⏹️ ▶️ John pictures are complaining about stuff. Apparently, complaining about stuff is much more lucrative.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, if you’re good at it, and you are really good at complaining about stuff, a lot of practice to be good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at complaining about stuff. You can’t just complain a lot about it. You have to be able to complain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well about it and that’s what like you are so good at complaining well. Anybody can complain.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I complain all the time but I’m not nearly as good at it as you are. You are a professional, top-notch, like world-class
⏹️ ▶️ Marco complainer about anything.
⏹️ ▶️ John You need to get the practice to… I messed it up. Complaining Carnegie Hall. Practice,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You don’t even
⏹️ ▶️ John know that saying? I mangled it too much it was unrecognizable. I apologize. I’m an old man.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my goodness. So anyway, I didn’t, I don’t have too much more to say about these
⏹️ ▶️ Casey other than I genuinely, genuinely was dumbfounded at how
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good they were because I expected it to be like, you know, stick figures
⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus plus if you will. And that’s not a new underscore app. What I mean by that is, you know, just the next, the next
⏹️ ▶️ Casey level up from, yeah, not Not yet anyway. I would love to see that app actually. That would be pretty awesome.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’ll be like Pinpoint slash Bugshot but with underscore spin on it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I thought it was just going to be like better than your average 12 or 15 year old or what have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you, which I guess yes this was, but these were like way better than your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey average 12 to 15 year old. I remember vividly when I was, I don’t know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in like second or third grade, which is younger than what we’re talking about. I had freehand drawn
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a picture of Garfield the cat and done, if I may say so, an
⏹️ ▶️ Casey extraordinarily impressive job of it. This is my crowning achievement as an artist. In fact, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty much my only achievement as an artist. And I would show all my classmates
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a first or second grader what this was, and they would all be like, oh, you just traced that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And how do you fix this problem when you’re in first or second grade? I’ve got to have this somewhere,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’ll take me 10 years to dig it up. What I did to fix this problem of, oh, you just trace that, is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wrote in big, very thick letters in all caps, I did not trace this next
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John picture of Garfield. That’s what most great
⏹️ ▶️ John artists put on their things, actually. If you look, it’s there, and it’s very fine print.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, I was stunned by how good these were, and I’m really, really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey genuinely impressed by them, and I want to see more of them. So find some more and post
⏹️ ▶️ John My attic is full of this crap, but uh, yeah, no like like I said in the hypercritical article the secret to all this stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John is First of all as I stated and I think every single description on Instagram for these things almost
⏹️ ▶️ John all these things are from another like direct copies of
⏹️ ▶️ John a painting or a poster or something That was you know Probably on my wall
⏹️ ▶️ John from something like I didn’t do the these aren’t originals, right? Even the ones that are just of random people
⏹️ ▶️ John are taken from like people from magazines or a composite of pictures and magazines but most of them are just
⏹️ ▶️ John exactly direct copies and all you need to make a perfect copy
⏹️ ▶️ John of like a cool poster or painting or a book cover or something else you know as I was into all these you know fantasy book
⏹️ ▶️ John series or whatever and I got these calendars with the big posters and stuff all you need to be able to make an amazing
⏹️ ▶️ John copy of what is already an amazing piece of art is the ability to know when you’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John drawn something have I drawn it like that thing over there or have I messed it up in some way
⏹️ ▶️ John and that’s it right and you just repeat that process and eventually you end up with essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John a larger version of the book cover that you were copying the whole time. And the barrier
⏹️ ▶️ John most people have to doing that is somewhat artistic ability, but mostly they will draw
⏹️ ▶️ John what they think is they see in the book cover and then they will look down and look up the book cover and look down at what they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John drawn on their giant poster size piece of paper and think, yeah, that’s about right. And let us continue.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you do that repeatedly, you end up with this terrible misshapen blob that only looks vaguely like what was in the book cover and it doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John look good. So you got to draw what’s actually on the book cover. You have to know when you’ve drawn something, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, too big, too small, at the wrong angle, and then you too, if you have this
⏹️ ▶️ John one particular skill, can essentially make an amazing copy of some
⏹️ ▶️ John other artist’s piece of work and get all the credit for making this great picture. I mean, most of the people who looked at this who know the
⏹️ ▶️ John the Dragonlance series recognize these pictures because they’re famous pictures from that series made by amazing
⏹️ ▶️ John actual artists and they drew it from whole cloth from their head because they’re actual artists. I was merely
⏹️ ▶️ John a very skilled mimic.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well regardless of what you think you were and whether or not you think you were good, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was and remain extremely impressed.
⏹️ ▶️ John I was good for my age. That’s why I put most of these up. It’s like as I get older it gets less impressive to do something like this when you’re 18 but
⏹️ ▶️ John you do it when you’re 13 you’re like it’s pretty good for a 13 year old. Even a 13 year old mimic. I did have some other originals
⏹️ ▶️ John and you’ve seen my crappy paintings that are on the house I mean painting is obviously much harder But they’re from a similar time period when I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John like late single-digit ages or like getting close into my teens
⏹️ ▶️ John But yeah, no these these have sentimental value because I had these things all over my walls for
⏹️ ▶️ John my childhood bedroom So I was just happy to find them in the attic and have them all be intact and
⏹️ ▶️ John like you know what I should record These because who knows what will happen to them in the future and now I’ve got them in digital form
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin Real-time follow-up from my buddy Spencer. It appears
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it is about 10 minutes per meg and a half of MP3 data if you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really, really, really break it down. Adam
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Back Well, that’s using the HEAAC format. Steve McLaughlin
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thank you, yes, and pretty well compressed.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So our dream of issuing an episode of ATP on 17 floppy disks might actually be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasonably possible. Indeed. Oh, the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco song’s going to sound like crap.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then you have to find some place to buy floppy disks in bulk.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And a drive to write them all.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I’ve got you covered there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually might have a USB floppy drive around here somewhere. I did have one very recently, and I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know what I did with it, but I might be able to help out. All right.
New iCloud 2TB plan
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Regardless, iCloud storage has a new option now. There’s now two terabytes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for 20 bucks a month. That’s cool, I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, before it would cap out at one terabyte, and that’s actually the plan that Tiff and I have for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco our giant photo libraries, and that’s nice. However, before, if you needed more than one terabyte,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably for photos, you basically just couldn’t. There was no option. Now there is. Now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can go to two terabytes, which is nice. Twice the money, twice the space, okay. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think it’s not insanely competitive on that pricing, but it’s not too terrible,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s nice to have the option.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, as you pointed out, if you don’t have the option, you just feel terrible. My brother was in this situation with his photo library. He has
⏹️ ▶️ John a similar size Sony camera to me, but he got his many years ago, and he has multiple kids, and
⏹️ ▶️ John he shoots everything in RAW. He was over a terabyte. I was like, how can you be over
⏹️ ▶️ John a terabyte? Your oldest kid is like three, but he takes a lot of pictures, and RAWs are really big. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John he was over a terabyte, So he couldn’t use the iCloud Photos library. And he just had to find
⏹️ ▶️ John other things to, other ways to backup his stuff. And it was, you know, it’s like, geez, it’s kind of a shame. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no amount of money he could give to Apple to say, please just take my photos. And now finally,
⏹️ ▶️ John they offer a two terabyte option. So I excitedly sent him an iMessage and said, hey, you can finally upload your photo library. He said,
⏹️ ▶️ John no, after the summer, I’m over two terabytes too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco My solution is actually very simple. Delete photos. Anything that is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco being shot by a real camera, first goes into Lightroom. And Lightroom is where I do all the picking,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the editing, then when I’m done with processing an event,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I export all those as very high quality JPEGs into Photos app. And that’s, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, RAW never goes into Photos, because Lightroom is better at it, first of all,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also just for that, again, the space reasons of syncing these to all the devices, even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thumbnail or not, and then speed, and then catalog size, and iCloud limits of space like this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that kind of system is much more cumbersome, but does result in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a way better photo experience with the bonus that when I import an event into photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’ve already like picked all the crappy photos out and have only exported perfectly processed awesome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones. It looks like it does in Apple commercials and demos where like all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the pictures are perfect
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because like normally if you look at my at my raw Lightroom library before everything gets picked through and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco edited it you know you have like a a million pictures of the same thing where I was trying to get exactly the right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shot, half these are blurry or mis-exposed or whatever else, and it does not look anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the Apple commercials. But my photos actually look pretty close a lot of the time because it is only
⏹️ ▶️ Marco receiving the edited ones.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is another example where it seems like Apple doesn’t quite understand how at least some set of its users
⏹️ ▶️ John use its products. Because I think everybody who is even remotely into photography or has kids and
⏹️ ▶️ John likes to take pictures of them ends up with exactly like you said, photo library filled with tons of pictures,
⏹️ ▶️ John some of them are just a mess, and then the good ones, it’s not like you’re in burst, even if you’re not in burst mode, you
⏹️ ▶️ John take 50 pictures of the kid blowing out the candles to try to get the one shot, right? Everybody does it.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s how you take, that’s the secret to photography, is take a ton of pictures, then hopefully you’ll find one good one out of 1,000, and
⏹️ ▶️ John eventually, if you’re really good, one good one out of 500, right? But you still have all those pictures, and I
⏹️ ▶️ John guess the smart thing to do is to delete the other ones, but if you have any sort of pack rat tendencies, you’re like, well,
⏹️ ▶️ John even these aren’t the best picture maybe it’s someday I’ll want to look back on the one where they make a funny face
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever you know you don’t want to like there’s the really excellent pictures that they graduate to could
⏹️ ▶️ John appear in an Apple ad but there’s kind of mediocre ones that you’re still endearing like I have lots of pictures of my kids making funny
⏹️ ▶️ John faces that I would never you’d never seen an Apple ad or maybe it’s even a little bit out of focus as they were running out of the frame but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like a funny scene or something I don’t want to delete those right but you do want to have a photo library
⏹️ ▶️ John that is just the good ones I do that with the favorites feature which is you know putting the hearts in or whatever. But imagine
⏹️ ▶️ John if they had to work something that supported markers workflow, which I would do if it was all within one app, which is upload
⏹️ ▶️ John the raws, go through them, sort them out, pick the ones that you really like, do the adjustments,
⏹️ ▶️ John burn down to JPEG, and then hide everything that doesn’t make the cut. I guess
⏹️ ▶️ John they would still force be forced to allow you to upload everything for backup purposes, but it would sure make
⏹️ ▶️ John browsing a lot easier if you could, if you didn’t have to choose between delete forever and and ever and ever
⏹️ ▶️ John and mostly don’t show those. And I know they have the ability to hide pictures and again they have favoriting and stuff like that. So they kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of give a hybrid solution, but the fact that Marco has to use two apps to do what I think is a
⏹️ ▶️ John very reasonable workflow is kind of a shame. And the two terabyte option for 20 bucks, it’s like Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ John I know not a lot of people do this, but technologically speaking,
⏹️ ▶️ John and financially speaking and business practice speaking, it’s not that much harder to offer three terabytes
⏹️ ▶️ John for 30 and four terabytes for 40. I can keep going with this crazy sequence. And
⏹️ ▶️ John like, I don’t know how much your storage costs. Hell, put it on a different curve that’s not linear, but either way,
⏹️ ▶️ John like, I bet there are people out there, I know one of them, with libraries that are bigger than two terabytes,
⏹️ ▶️ John and they will pay you more money for more storage. I know that’s weird sounding, but it will happen.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it would be great if Apple didn’t wait another two years before they offered the three terabyte option. For
⏹️ ▶️ John more money, for more money, Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I don’t see my two app solution changing anytime soon because for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this to change realistically anytime soon, you would either need the Photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco app to really have more pro-style editing controls and mechanics
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and workflows possible, which it really still doesn’t. It is better than iPhoto used
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be, but not good enough for like, you know, really pro editing. It seems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Apple is also not very interested in making it so. Or you’d
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to have Lightroom get a lot better at cloud stuff. Given Adobe’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco history there, they’ve tried a Lightroom-like or directly Lightroom cloud
⏹️ ▶️ Marco service something like three or four times by now, and they’ve all had really big flaws and really big problems.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think both of those are unlikely to be solved in the foreseeable future. This
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is Left Undone and I will be using two apps for a very long time as probably a lot of other people do.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or they just put everything in Lightroom and don’t touch photos. Fair
Apple EU tax conflict
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We still have predictions for next week’s event to cover, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s been a big brouhaha about tax stuff with Apple in Ireland,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we should attempt to briefly cover it. Kids, this is when you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey look at the time count and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly how long this chapter lasts. So the short, short version, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was actually summarized really, really well in a Vox article that we’ll have in the show notes or an article
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on Vox, I should say. I should say. The short, short version as I understand it is the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey European Union, which has some amount of governing power in general over Ireland
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a member of the European Union, although they have no power over Ireland’s taxing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rules and situation, has come to the conclusion that Apple and Ireland
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have some sort of vacuum deal that is beneficial to Apple and that’s against the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey non-competitive rules of the European Union. So guess what, Apple owes somebody,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess Ireland owes Ireland 13 billion euros, something to that effect.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Interestingly, well, uninterestingly, Apple says no freaking way. But interestingly,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is saying no freaking way, which you would think, here it is, they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are set up, they are alluped, that’s a basketball thing, Marco. They have been given the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey allupe for 13 billion euros and they’re saying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no thank you. And it appears that the best
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in – well, the super simple explanation for that is they don’t want to appear unfriendly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the many corporations that have based their European operations out of Ireland
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because Ireland is the Delaware of Europe for Americans.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so that’s the extraordinarily abridged summary.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey My two cents on it, I don’t feel like Apple has done anything wrong, but I also am not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so sure that these laws—I’m not so sure these laws are really correct as written.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think both the American laws about money earned elsewhere and repatriating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that money seem kind of backwards and messed up. The Irish laws, from an outsider’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey point of view, seem like maybe they should be a little more aggressive on collecting taxes, but from what little
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve read on this—and admittedly it has not been a lot—it doesn’t feel to me like Apple has done very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey much wrong. They just haven’t exactly been forthcoming with stuff that maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey morally they should have paid, even if legally they didn’t have to. So Marco, it appears you have some thoughts on this. Go ahead.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll make mine quick, because the more I learn about this, the less I have to say about it basically,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s very complicated. And it is—there’s multiple sides of this. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s the European politics side of it, which, that’s politics.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who cares? It isn’t really a tech topic. Then there’s the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco U.S. basically tax haven side of it, where you have companies that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they divert all their international sales to international subsidiaries and don’t bring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cash back into the U.S., they basically can pay no U.S. tax on it. So Tim
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cook is going around basically like obviously taking advantage of all these same things that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most big companies do and and I think they are honestly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know morally a little tricky or worse but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is what’s legal and so there are these giant loopholes and workarounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in our tax code that allow big companies to do this so the big companies do it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tim Cook as the CEO is basically responsible for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing this. Like if he didn’t do stuff like this, if Apple didn’t use all the same tax saving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco schemes as other big companies do that are perfectly legal, at least in the US, ignoring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the European politics out of this for now, if Apple didn’t do all the same things the shareholders would
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have Tim Cook’s head because he’d be basically throwing away billions of dollars. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically as long as these things continue to be the legal way to do things in the US that all of the big companies
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do, Apple has to do them as well. Otherwise Tim Cook would be fired or sued. So you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have to do it. However, I don’t believe that they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to do as much campaigning as Tim Cook does about how the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco US must change its tax code to basically give them a huge tax break
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to bring that money back in. Because so the whole the summary of this basically is that if you keep the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco money offshore you don’t have to pay us tax if you bring it back into the US from your international subsidiaries
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have to pay us tax on it minus whatever you paid in foreign tax so the idea is you don’t have to end
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up paying like double tax you just have to pay at least the US tax and if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the foreign tax is higher that’s your that’s your deal with the foreign government to handle but you but if you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco end up like you have to pay something and Apple basically is paying no tax on all their European
⏹️ ▶️ Marco earnings and you know so that’s the high level over you I I apologize if I got any of these details wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Tim Cook is going around in all these public statements and things, basically campaigning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Washington and the public to support him in this effort to have corporate tax reform
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to let them bring in this international money into the U.S. at what appears to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the goal of a substantially reduced tax rate. And me, as a person who
⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes money worldwide but pays all my taxes in the great state of New York, I think that’s BS.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think if the companies can do all these little tricks and stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by basically applying lots of accountants and lawyers and loopholes to save themselves billions of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco dollars, well, I hope the government fixes that, because that seems like a poor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco allocation of the tax burden. But for Tim Cook
⏹️ ▶️ Marco personally, to use the same level of energy that he was using for the FBI fight
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for our privacy to now be—to basically try to have that same energy being spent
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on, I demand that we be able to bring our money back into the U.S. and to get a discount on our
⏹️ ▶️ Marco taxes? No, that’s not morally defensible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s just not. So I don’t support Tim Cook in that. I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, if they want to do the same loopholes, fine, but don’t go, like, you know, explaining
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in public that the US needs to allow you to bring your money back in and not pay your share of taxes on it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, you should pay your taxes the way all of us pay our taxes.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, he’s not the same as the rest of us. But I think most of his defense because he’s the head of a giant multinational corporation
⏹️ ▶️ John that sells physical goods overseas, right? You know, and you’re not doing that. But I think most of his defense
⏹️ ▶️ John seems to be centered around the idea that has been put forth by the, the European Union and everything that
⏹️ ▶️ John two things that Apple did something like wrong like they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not gonna say illegal because it wasn’t illegal but like sneaky and wrong and
⏹️ ▶️ John that it was sneaking wrong back then and therefore you owe all those back taxes like it
⏹️ ▶️ John was you know even though you and Ireland agreed at the time that you agreed on it you didn’t know this but
⏹️ ▶️ John it was against our anti-competitive laws of the European Union so we want you to pay not from now on
⏹️ ▶️ John not going forward because that’s I feel like that’s between the European Union and Ireland in terms of deciding like are
⏹️ ▶️ John some Irish tax laws in violation of the anti-competitive thing because basically they don’t want like one country
⏹️ ▶️ John like the Delaware of Europe to be able to attract all the economic activity
⏹️ ▶️ John starving out the other countries like they’re trying to keep the countries from undercutting each other and hurting each but supposed
⏹️ ▶️ John to be a big you know European Union you’re not supposed to have like one country one stronger
⏹️ ▶️ John country crushing another one with the power of its tax subsidies for big companies or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John so that’s That’s what the EU is trying to do. I feel like that’s between EU and Ireland to figure out what the deal is there. But I think
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s defense is we’re not a sneaky criminal. And if you’ve decided
⏹️ ▶️ John if you guys working out amongst yourselves, Ireland, European Union, whatever you got to do, if you decide that going forward, this isn’t going to be the
⏹️ ▶️ John deal anymore, change your laws, we’ll comply with them, but we don’t want to pay you back taxes on 13 billion.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the US law is being like you pay the difference in taxes. I feel like it is kind of weird for physical
⏹️ ▶️ John goods that you would that you sell in a particular place. tax that where if
⏹️ ▶️ John you sell something, I mean, it’s sneaky that you sell something in France and you get taxed for it in Ireland. So that’s still kind of messed
⏹️ ▶️ John up. But the idea that the only reasonable tax system is no matter where you
⏹️ ▶️ John sell your things in the entire world, because the corporate headquarters is in the United States that you pay United
⏹️ ▶️ John States tax rates. I think that is like you need some amount of diversity in the world.
⏹️ ▶️ John You need to allow countries to have lower tax rates to to encourage economic activity. Countries
⏹️ ▶️ John out of the EU, I’m sure there’s plenty of countries elsewhere in the world that are not in the EU and they’re not in the US that have
⏹️ ▶️ John lower corporate tax rates, right? Or like Hong Kong or Singapore or whatever. I know Singapore is a bad example.
⏹️ ▶️ John But you can’t say, like, the US law is basically like, look, I don’t care what your tax laws
⏹️ ▶️ John are. If you are a US corporation and you make money, then we tax you at the US rate.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t care if we’re taxing you on a sale that was made from a store in some other country to a person in another
⏹️ ▶️ John country. I don’t care about that. I want your money because you’re a US corporation because I feel like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not a great system and it could lead to situations where people don’t want to incorporate in the United States and they incorporate
⏹️ ▶️ John in the global Delaware instead or whatever. But anyway, Tim Cook’s
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of anger about this, I feel like mostly has been motivated by the injustice of having to pay essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John back taxes that are not owed. It’s as if the IRS says, you know, the tax law that’s been in effect for the past decade,
⏹️ ▶️ John we decided that was actually not a good tax law. So we’re changing it. by the way, pretend like it was
⏹️ ▶️ John in effect for the past 30 years or so. And you all, you also back taxes on it. So he’s going against
⏹️ ▶️ John that because I feel like that’s just not fair, right? Who knows if that would actually happen, but that’s what he’s complaining about. And the idea that they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John sneaky or wrong, which is borderline because it’s pretty sneaky. Like everything having to do with tax avoidance is pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John sneaky. I don’t think Tim Cook was responsible for setting up these sneaky laws. But on the other hand,
⏹️ ▶️ John it was like sneaky between a corporation and a government. Like again, Ireland was all for it because
⏹️ ▶️ John they They want their little.005%. .005% of a hodjillion dollars is way better than 35% of zero dollars because Apple doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John do its thing in Ireland anymore. So it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of gross and kind of sneaky between Apple, but I really don’t think saying that they owe back taxes
⏹️ ▶️ John makes all that much sense unless like, I don’t know what the European Union process, unless there’s some sort of process where
⏹️ ▶️ John they can prove that as it turns out that that Ireland law, tax law
⏹️ ▶️ John was always against the EU charter and then you got to work something out. And as for repatriating the money,
⏹️ ▶️ John again, I think it’s kind of weird that the US wants all the taxes to be at the US rate no matter where you sell
⏹️ ▶️ John things. I don’t feel like that’s a scalable solution to a world economy.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if you’re going to do that, yeah, like I don’t think Tim Cook saying we would like to bring that money back, but
⏹️ ▶️ John give us a lower rate. You can say that only once, but I think it’s good. You
⏹️ ▶️ John know, everyone wants to have lower taxes. And if your corporation saying, oh, we totally bring that money back.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like holding the money ransom, you know, like we’ll bring these trillions back. Uh, just give us a lower
⏹️ ▶️ John rate. And I feel like that’s not going to go anywhere. And I’m not quite sure why Tim Cook is lobbying for that
⏹️ ▶️ John much because honestly, does he need that money back into the U S or is that just trying to be like an olive
⏹️ ▶️ John branch? You’re like, we totally bring that money back. Cause I can imagine the U S lowering the rate and the apple
⏹️ ▶️ John going, nah, we’ll stick with zero, 0.5%. Thanks a lot about changing that law and everything, but 0.005%
⏹️ ▶️ John versus that. Like, I don’t know the details of why he would want to bring it back specifically.
⏹️ ▶️ John But as for like the shareholders or people getting angry at Tim Cook, he does that all
⏹️ ▶️ John the time in terms of like telling the shareholder, we know that this is not the
⏹️ ▶️ John best way to make money, but if you don’t like it, like the sustainable energy
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, maybe human rights, many times he said to investors, if you’re in it for the short term and you just
⏹️ ▶️ John want to see this thing, just get out of the stock. There’s plenty of other stocks you can buy. So I think it’s totally
⏹️ ▶️ John within reason for him to take a similar ethical stand on tax law here. He just hasn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John chosen to. And I think there’s two parts of one. I don’t think this is the same category as,
⏹️ ▶️ John uh, you know, it’s, I don’t think it’s, it really is a moral issue. Maybe it’s a mild
⏹️ ▶️ John ethical issue, but morally speaking, the environment and human rights are way bigger causes than arguing
⏹️ ▶️ John over whether tax dollars go to the EU or to the U S or whatever. Uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John it, it’s just, it’s not quite the same thing. just shuffling paper around. And I know there are consequences of all that and so
⏹️ ▶️ John on and so forth. But I think it’s hard to draw a really straight line between arguments
⏹️ ▶️ John between these giants about tax law and things like the environment, which is like not doesn’t doesn’t recognize
⏹️ ▶️ John borders and is shared by the entire planet and has irreparable effects.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then it just seems like him personally and Apple as a corporation don’t feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like they are on the wrong side of this. If they did, if they felt like they were on the wrong side of this and needed to change
⏹️ ▶️ John something, they would change it. and they would go to the shareholders and say, if you don’t like us doing this, then fine. But, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s, I think you don’t get to be the CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world by doing things
⏹️ ▶️ John saying like, I know our tax rate is X, but I just don’t feel it’s ethically right for us to pay that low. Should
⏹️ ▶️ John we should pay some extra taxes this year? Like there’s a limit to how far people’s minds
⏹️ ▶️ John can bend to, or rather the other way. I think your mind eventually bends
⏹️ ▶️ John to the idea that voluntarily paying more taxes than you need to is not a good business plan.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so that’s, I think that’s where they’re at. And maybe in his deathbed, Tim Cook will say,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know what, I should have brought that money back and just pay the taxes so that the bridge that collapsed with my loved
⏹️ ▶️ John one on it didn’t collapse because America
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco doesn’t know how to fund infrastructure anymore. And if
⏹️ ▶️ John only I had given 20 trillion more dollars, it would have helped. But I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like it’s, you know, he’s a company man, he’s a good CEO, and this
⏹️ ▶️ John does not rise to the level of human rights or the environment.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well then that’s why it kind of rubbed me the wrong way, how much Cook is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of trying to bring the public to support him on this. He’s kind of bringing this fight into the public
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with his statements.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Both the Ireland thing and the corporate tax rate repatriation thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it just seems like, this is one of those reminders
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that for all the good things they do and for all the good people there, Apple is still a giant corporation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the CEO of it is still the CEO of a giant corporation and one of his main jobs is trying to pay as little tax as
⏹️ ▶️ Marco possible and trying to do all sorts of tricks and it’s a little bit weird it’s it’s it’s only a little bit weird that that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cook seems to not sense how bringing this to the public
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is probably not a good use of that political capital.
⏹️ ▶️ John But he’s not I don’t think he’s bringing it to the public to convince them over to Apple side he’s doing damage control
⏹️ ▶️ John what he doesn’t want for if he doesn’t say anything what comes out of this is just the repeated idea that Apple cheats on
⏹️ ▶️ John its taxes and that doesn’t pay its fair share. And that’s what he’s coming out to say is like, we don’t cheat.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’re not doing things against the law. We pair fair share. That’s always his message. And if he wasn’t being attacked, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John because if he said nothing and just said, like, well, whatever, the public doesn’t care about this. Eventually, it would just become a knowledge
⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple cheats on his taxes and doesn’t pay its fair share. Right. And that’s what that’s why he feels
⏹️ ▶️ John like he has to go to the public. Now, I think in general, the public doesn’t care about that that much anyway. But I still think if he didn’t come
⏹️ ▶️ John out and argue strongly against it, fast forward five years, and you make a joke about Apple not paying taxes
⏹️ ▶️ John and everyone go, Oh yeah, Apple, those are the company that doesn’t pay taxes where when in reality all corporations don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John pay taxes because they all use these loopholes and but only Apple would be getting the bad PR for it. You know what I mean? So I feel like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John why he is so vocal about it. But in the grand scheme
⏹️ ▶️ John of things, I don’t think it’s a campaign to convince the world to call your congressman till Apple repatriated trillion dollars
⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s I don’t think that’s in anybody’s head.
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as we record, it is Friday, the 2nd of September on the 7th,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is this coming Wednesday. Convenient for our recording next week, actually. I didn’t even think about that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey On the 7th, Apple will be releasing ostensibly the new version of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone, which may or may not be called the iPhone 7. It may
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or may not be announcing a new Apple Watch and may or may not be releasing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey new MacBook Pros. Thoughts on what’s happening here?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think we can all agree that there will be a new iPhone 7. I, or well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say that that will be the name, just that there will be a new phone. It sounds to me like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty much a given that it will not have a headphone jack. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think I’m okay with that. I’m not thrilled by it, but I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not devastated by it either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, this was the genius of Apple’s PR campaign over basically the entire spring and summer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of what seems, in retrospect, and even seemed a bit like at the time, what seemed like a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very good controlled leak campaign to set expectations accordingly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and get all the anger out slowly over the whole summer. We started hearing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty clear rumors about there being no headphone jack from pretty well-known sources, like pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good publications, a long time ago. So we’ve had the whole summer to get all mad about it,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and now we just kind of all accept it as, okay, well, yeah, this phone’s iPhone, there’s no headphone jack. And had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we not known that ahead of time by so long, and had so much time to get mad about it and and then finally accept it,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that anger would have blown up next week at the same time that Apple’s using
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a design for the third year in a row for the first time. And by the way, if I may say again, not a particularly great design.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So imagine the anger that would have played and the negative press coverage that would have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had on the product that now probably won’t happen as much. I still think there will be some,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think it won’t be nearly as much as it would have been if we hadn’t been able to stew about it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from like Bloomberg and rumor sites for the entire summer.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s they did the best they could with that. But there’s a limit because I think
⏹️ ▶️ John almost everybody who goes to buy this new iPhone will not know that it has no iPhone jack. So
⏹️ ▶️ John even though we are and the tech media, which is really all Apple to do, who’s interested in this story at all months
⏹️ ▶️ John before it comes out the tech media and us to read the tech media. So that’s all they can do, right? So we’re kind of getting
⏹️ ▶️ John over it, and learning to deal with it and had all the think pieces about it and so on and so forth. But
⏹️ ▶️ John we are a tiny, tiny sliver of the huge number of people who buy iPhones. And pretty much,
⏹️ ▶️ John to a first approximation, every single person who goes in to buy the new iPhone in, you know, the first month
⏹️ ▶️ John or two is going to be like, wait, where’s the headphone jack? Until the story goes on your local
⏹️ ▶️ John news and USA Today and all sort of mainstream media
⏹️ ▶️ John that people watch. And eventually the public will know. What Apple has spared
⏹️ ▶️ John is the incredible outrage that would have been if it was a surprise to us like Margot said, like if the tech press also
⏹️ ▶️ John was blindsided by it, it would just be way way bigger. But I still think there will be a fairly
⏹️ ▶️ John substantial like, speaking of tonight’s show, monologue worthy gags about
⏹️ ▶️ John the new iPhone not having a headphone port among the regular people who don’t follow exactly what
⏹️ ▶️ John the new iPhone is going to be months in advance and they’ll learn about it when the product is announced and when it’s released
⏹️ ▶️ John like everybody else. you know, and they’ll get over it in their own time. So I think Apple did the best it could
⏹️ ▶️ John with the PR campaign, but we’ll see if, you know, this is another, if their timing is
⏹️ ▶️ John right on this or if the future, you know, time is on their side or they’re, they’re the wave of the future
⏹️ ▶️ John as they have been so many other times. I can tell you that the other day I tried to plug my headphones into the lighting
⏹️ ▶️ John port on my iPhone six. Obviously I’ve been stewing in the idea that there won’t be a headphone port for a long
⏹️ ▶️ John time, but I felt I like I got so far as that I touched the two of them together. That’s how far I got. I didn’t start
⏹️ ▶️ John pressing, but I touched the two of them together. And it’s mostly because I’ve been thinking for, you know, six months
⏹️ ▶️ John now or whatever it’s been about what it might be like to have lightning head headphones. And several
⏹️ ▶️ John months ago, I think I sort of can’t my my personal piece with this issue is that, look, all
⏹️ ▶️ John I ever connect to my iPhone are the ear pods that came with it. If it comes with your
⏹️ ▶️ John pods that I can still plug into the phone, which it will fine, fine. Then then like,
⏹️ ▶️ John how does this personally, just me personally, not saying this is a good idea for the product, so on and so forth, just for me personally,
⏹️ ▶️ John I really don’t think this change will affect my life, except if this means that the extra
⏹️ ▶️ John number of plugs and unplugs wear out my lighting port faster. But other than that, I think my life
⏹️ ▶️ John won’t change. I’m also very interested in the, you know, rumors of the wireless,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, ear pod things, and like, I’ll try them out. I’ll probably buy a pair of those
⏹️ ▶️ John and give Apple some money, because I’m kind of fascinated by that idea but… Some!
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah I don’t know how much they’re gonna cost. It’s gonna be a hundred bucks. I got some some person sent one to the show like
⏹️ ▶️ John someone who works for like this headphone company whose name I can’t remember I think was like 801 something anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re not wireless they have a wire from one ear to the other. That’s what most of them do yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John And and on that wire is the little clicker thing and I know they’re not wired in the same way
⏹️ ▶️ John but that wire going from one ear to the other even though gives me a place for the clicker still feels
⏹️ ▶️ John weird like it doesn’t feel like they’re wireless to me I know they are like there’s no connection to my jacket pocket
⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing but it still feels strange to me so the rumors I see of Apple Apple potentially having ones that
⏹️ ▶️ John literally don’t have any wires on them I might give that a try if it’s an Apple thing
⏹️ ▶️ John but yeah I think I think we’ve covered the headphone jack and the iPhone 7 as has been the case with most
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhones for the past many years we feel like we know every single thing about it We feel like we’ve seen pictures of the actual
⏹️ ▶️ John phone. We know, the only thing we never know is like, all right, A10 system on a chip.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ll be better. How much better? Because that’s the type of stuff that doesn’t leak, is no one slicing the top
⏹️ ▶️ John and analyzing the die before the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, there was that one leak geekbench thing that showed it being about 50% faster. Which,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if that was real, but they have made jumps of that magnitude before. So it is certainly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco plausible that it might be 50% faster. Which would be cool.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and we get those type of rumors like, is it gonna be way faster or a little bit faster? And this one seems like
⏹️ ▶️ John another way faster one, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that is, you know, it’s kind of boring for these Apple events, especially like the next year
⏹️ ▶️ John event, the 10th anniversary, super thin phone with like no home button and the touch ID and the screen and the edge to edge,
⏹️ ▶️ John like all those rumors that we’re already getting. It’ll be kind of sad if we know everything about that one before it comes out, because
⏹️ ▶️ John I would like to be surprised again. But it just seems, alas, not to be possible you sell
⏹️ ▶️ John so many hundreds of millions of these things. It’s impossible for the parts not to leak. And for the September
⏹️ ▶️ John event, like that’s that’s the main that’s the headline attraction. Every single rumor story has been
⏹️ ▶️ John saying, don’t look for Max, don’t bother. It’s not the type of event. So I’m I’ve I’m already
⏹️ ▶️ John prepared not to see anything about Max. I’m fine with the Max coming out at a later date.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can’t let it go. And no, I mean, everyone everyone is basically saying like everyone basically reporting as fact now
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so which sounds a lot like controlled leaks they’re basically reporting as fact that like there won’t be max announced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that that’ll come later which of course max are always coming later so Linux
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be great next year so it I am NOT ready to let that go yet if only because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so we’re pretty sure there’s not going to be iPads at this event and the phone updates are going to be not that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco major like you know not taking a lot of stage time so what that is gonna fill the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like if this is gonna be like a big fall event.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it sounds like Apple Watch 2 is also pretty minor.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but two minor things. First of all, you know how long they can go on about any phone. They’ll be showing you a million
⏹️ ▶️ John pictures from the dual camera, they’ll be showing you all the graphs, and they’ll probably show iOS 10
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It will take a
⏹️ ▶️ John while. And then the watch, this is the first and only significant update to the watch besides the new
⏹️ ▶️ John colors and new bands. They’re going to spend a long time on that, especially if Fits God we have these uh these tips
⏹️ ▶️ John from the not from the tips or the non tips or tips so who knows what the problem is is that could be even
⏹️ ▶️ John more fabricated than stories about USB hubs
⏹️ ▶️ John is the watch to GPS which would be a big deal if it was true because that all we’ve been hearing from
⏹️ ▶️ John from random rumors over the past year or so is that Apple has learned that pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John much the most important function of the Apple watch for most customers is fitness related and people are still
⏹️ ▶️ John wearing Fitbits and stuff so you know if you have GPS on the watch itself that really changes the story
⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of applications to keep track of your exercise and do running if you want to do without your phone if
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the thing that people want to do improve waterproofing which is hard to imagine because Craig Hockenberry is taking something like 150
⏹️ ▶️ John swims in the ocean with his watch and it’s still going strong so I think the waterproofing is already pretty good
⏹️ ▶️ John the Apple watch one will stick around at a lower price which is totally a Tim Cook thing to do but on other hand sounds crazy to me
⏹️ ▶️ John let the CPU die as fast as possible yeah yeah more health sensors did not make
⏹️ ▶️ John it again this is the persistent rumor when the first watch came out everyone’s like oh Apple wanted to do like blood oxygenation
⏹️ ▶️ John but they couldn’t because of FDA blah blah blah and second watch same set of rumors oh Apple wanted
⏹️ ▶️ John to do more health stuff but they couldn’t because there’s lots of regulations so they could you just run that rumor forever because if there’s never
⏹️ ▶️ John any new health features like yeah they just missed it Apple wanted to do it but couldn’t it’s not you know show me the features
⏹️ ▶️ John or don’t. And potential for an improved model with more health sensors in six months,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it could be pushed until Christmas 2017. So yeah, you’re right. Like the Apple Watch 2 rumors, if even
⏹️ ▶️ John if you believe every single one of these tips, GPS, I think that’s, that’s pretty big
⏹️ ▶️ John if they can make it thinner, but I doubt they will. That’s kind of big. Um, but I fully believe that Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John can make a full presentation out of, uh, new line of phones and
⏹️ ▶️ John new line of watches and not mention anything about the Mac.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not forget that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we also have watch OS 3 which I know
⏹️ ▶️ Casey covered at WWDC But it’s a big change and especially if the watch sales
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have been kind of meh Which is what everyone seems to think whether or not that’s true Who knows then they’re going to want
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to really do a pretty significant dog and pony show about watch OS 3 There could be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a video game demo or two on iOS 10 with new hardware I mean we could eat what you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying Marco is how could ATP have an episode of more than 20 minutes when there’s nothing going on in the middle
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the summer. Well, we always find a way and Apple can too. Uh, going back a step
⏹️ ▶️ Casey though, uh, a couple of things. One, I would love for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my Apple watch to be thinner. This is the only Apple device that I can think of that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really, really, really want to be thinner very much. So, and I think that there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey plenty of room to give, even while keeping the same band compatibility, which I think they will, and I think that’s important.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think there’s plenty of room for them to give on the thickness. And if the battery life stays
⏹️ ▶️ Casey roughly the same, and to be honest, if the performance only gets a little bit faster, I’m okay
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that, but I would love for this thing to be thinner. I have another question I want to ask you guys, but Marco,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it sounds like you have some thoughts on this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I just, I was, I’m laughing every time I see, like there’s, there’s the recent
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rumor is that the battery for the watch got like 30% bigger and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they achieved this in roughly the same size casing by making some of the screen components smaller.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like this is the one Apple product that doesn’t really need more battery
⏹️ ▶️ Marco life. Like the 42mm getting a 30% bigger battery life, it’s like it already has an amazing battery life.
⏹️ ▶️ John they said that the battery got 30% bigger, but if you have GPS on it, it doesn’t mean it gets any
⏹️ ▶️ John better battery life.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that’s true, although to be fair, and I think this was on Connected where they were talking about what that is likely to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be or maybe it was Upgrade, where basically, assuming this thing gets GPS, it’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be a lot like the workout mode or something where you can turn it on, you have to explicitly turn it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on when you want it, and it’s probably not going to be on the vast majority of the time. You’re probably going to have to really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco explicitly call it and say, all right, turn on GPS now.
⏹️ ▶️ John The apps, I think the apps will be able to control. You go over your hour-long run, you start your workout, and your app gets
⏹️ ▶️ John to run the whole time because they have that new feature in watchOS 3 where you get to run during the whole workout and that
⏹️ ▶️ John will slaughter your battery if you run for an hour or two if they don’t give you a 30% bigger battery. So I feel
⏹️ ▶️ John like it’ll probably be a wash. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right. Although
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be a massive boon for people who don’t use GPS. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there you go. Yeah. Well, this is why I really I would love it if Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically split the sport features off into their into the sport model and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also had like maybe take the steel model and make it like a little bit dressier one, like the office
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one. That’s the one you wear to work or whatever. If
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t need some of the more advanced fitness features like some of the more advanced sensors or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco GPS, maybe you can get a thinner steel watch for a couple hundred dollars more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that looks a little bit nicer. Then the sport model, which is most of the ones they’re selling anyway, can still get all this big
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bulky stuff and some of the more fitness stuff because that’s what most of its buyers actually want.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you want a day watch and a night watch. Got it. To go back to the phone,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if they go with killing the headphone jack, which it seems pretty much a given,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have seen a rumor that answers this question, but I’m curious what you guys think. And let’s start with John.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you think that they will include some sort of lightning to,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what is the acronym for the headphone port? TRRS. Thank you. A
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lightning to TRRS adapter, will that be in the box, yes or no? John Syracuse.
⏹️ ▶️ John If I had to put money on it, I would say no, just because I feel like they’re gonna include ear pods with
⏹️ ▶️ John a lightning connector on the end in the box, because they’ve been so, you know, sort of stingy with the
⏹️ ▶️ John accessories lately. The only thing that’s making me question it a little bit is
⏹️ ▶️ John how they would sell the presumed passive, no chips required connector
⏹️ ▶️ John for the adapter, because Apple doesn’t like to sell things for less than like $20. And
⏹️ ▶️ John can they sell that adapter for 10 or $20? It’s so tiny. The box, it would be like the size
⏹️ ▶️ John of the old iPod Shuffle Trident Stick of Gum box, maybe even smaller.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know how they sell this in a way, like even just thinking of shrinkage, as
⏹️ ▶️ John they call it in the industry, or theft. Like how can you even have these? Like will they have a Tic Tac dispenser that just dumps these things
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that’s the only thing it’s making.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like they don’t sell the SIM card removal tool, right? They don’t sell that separately. Or they
⏹️ ▶️ John also don’t give it to you in the box a lot of times with the phone. But that’s the type of thing, like it’s so freaking small
⏹️ ▶️ John and so cheap. How can you sell it separately? And yet they must sell it separately if
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t include it in the box. But I still think that the smart money is on no adapter in the box, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The chat room is saying exactly what I was going to say to you, which is they sold the MagSafe 1 to 2 adapter, which was $10.
⏹️ ▶️ John and that was super weird, right? that was super weird and really small and like not
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a normal thing
⏹️ ▶️ John that they do. And also way fewer people need MagSafe one to two than could potentially
⏹️ ▶️ John be in the market for this adapter. Now obviously every third party in the world will also sell this adapter, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re not Apple. Like it’s weird for Apple to be selling stuff like this. But anyway, yeah, just lightning, lightning ear pods in the box.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also as Tipster said in the chat, like even if they include it in the box, they still have to sell it separately because people are gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Marco need more than one.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s an interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John I know, I know. It’s just a weird product for Apple to sell. I guess that they sell it for 30 bucks is not weird anymore, but then
⏹️ ▶️ John then then there’ll be some screaming.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, you know, I am. I’m as much of a skeptic and cynic about about the Tim Cook
⏹️ ▶️ Marco era of Apple being super profitable and driving up attachment sales and everything. However, even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think it’s going to be 30 bucks. I think it’s going to be either 10 or 20. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey would agree with that. But Marco, do you think it will be in the box? Yes or no?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, because and I think Gruber mentioned this at one point. Basically, the like if they put it in the box, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of an admission that it’s necessary. And I don’t see them. I don’t see them doing that. I see them saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is the future.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Up until today, I would have said no freaking way that that adapter will be in the box. However, there was a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey post that I saw earlier today. I’m never gonna be able to find the link and I’m sorry, but there was a post with a picture
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like, it included many different things, but one of the things it included
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was a list of the things in the iPhone 7 box. I believe it was called iPhone 7, and this was like a Korean
⏹️ ▶️ Casey model. Gosh only knows if it was legit or not, But it said in there, lightning-powered
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ear pods, that wasn’t the exact phrasing, but something like that, and a lightning to headphone jack
⏹️ ▶️ Casey adapter in the box, which I would be very surprised if that’s the case. I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the same, that it is a position of strength to, or a strong
⏹️ ▶️ Casey move not to include it, and it is an admission of weakness if they do include it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it’s more customer-friendly to include it, but that’s not generally Apple’s style when it comes
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to these sorts of things, So I’ll be surprised if it’s in there, but the smoke is saying
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, there is more powerless than Thunderbolt display than you think, because the whole Thunderbolt display thing was, all right, so we’re selling this
⏹️ ▶️ John thing, and all of a sudden we sell a line of computers that don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John work with the little MagSafe thing that’s dangling off of it, right? So we have one product, and
⏹️ ▶️ John that product is fine as it is, but we’ve introduced another product here, like it doesn’t match up with the rest of our product
⏹️ ▶️ John line. So now we have to pick one of these products to ship with a thing that says, okay, when you buy this one,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t, it would be weird to buy a Thunderbolt display and not to be able to use it with the brand new laptop that you just bought
⏹️ ▶️ John alongside it. Cause we’re selling them simultaneously or you know, no matter what order you did it and say you buy
⏹️ ▶️ John a laptop, then you know, six months later, because the Thunderbolt display has been out for like 800 years before they canceled it. Six
⏹️ ▶️ John months later you buy a Thunderbolt display, you’d be surprised to see, wait, I bought this laptop not that long ago and now I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John buying a brand new monitor, doesn’t work with it. So Apple wants its products to work together. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple owns Beats. Say you buy Beats headphones, and then a couple months later, the new iPhone comes
⏹️ ▶️ John out. It feels kind of weird that you just bought this product in an Apple store from basically Apple that
⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t use with your just purchased iPhone. I think, you just asked me what you
⏹️ ▶️ John thought they would do. I think they should include the adapter in the box, especially if it’s passive. And that’s why I feel like it’s borderline
⏹️ ▶️ John where it’s not the Apple thing to do, but it’s kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of like the bumper case. Like they didn’t include the bumper case with the iPhones, but eventually Steve Jobs was like, fine, you want bumpers?
⏹️ ▶️ John Free bumpers for everybody. Like it’s a nice way to make a problem go away, to have like, to have a ready
⏹️ ▶️ John answer when they say, but you took away the headphone port, and it’s like, the Apto comes in the box.
⏹️ ▶️ John I would still bet against it, but it’s a lot closer than I would have thought, you know, having chewed on this for the past several months,
⏹️ ▶️ John I would not bet super heavily on it, but that’s still my bet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah, I agree that they should put it in the box for customer sat reasons. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really should. and that would help a lot. Like that would change the story from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re making us buy new crap to most people just saying, oh, now we have to use this other
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing that’s in the box. Which it’s still a crap move, I think, overall, to remove this jack
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for apparently no need in this generation. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at least that would really change, like it would make it so that when you get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these things, no matter what kind of headphones you use with your phone, you don’t have to buy anything extra. just to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use your old headphones with your new iPhone and that that is a big satisfaction when at the purchase point
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it makes it feel like less of it less of like a quote money grab this phrase. I hate that everyone loves so much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if they make you spend an extra 20 bucks to adapt your existing headphones to it people are to get mad and they’re not going to get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mad that it’s 20 bucks or get mad that I have to that this that it’s like an add-on at all
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah they’re confused the money grab is the storage. There is a money grab
⏹️ ▶️ John here, but it’s not that it’s not the headphones
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and All the rumors, finally, they’re saying now, now that even 32 is becoming
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too small, Apple is finally upgrading from 16 to 32 for the baseline storage. Apple’s like, we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John could move to 32,
⏹️ ▶️ John but is 32 painfully small for people? Let’s wait another year. And then finally they say, we can move to 32. Is 32 painfully
⏹️ ▶️ John small? It’s actually painfully small for a lot of customers. Good, let’s move
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now it’s done. Yeah, we actually, a couple, yeah, about a year ago or so,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a year and a half, we bought my mother-in-law an iPad Air or Air 2. It was her first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad, and we weren’t sure if she was gonna use it that much, so we only got the base 32 model. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were preparing for a trip and she wanted to put videos on, and here I am juggling, like, all right, we gotta download this video for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the plane, now we gotta go delete this video and try to figure out how to download this video in SD instead of HD, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not easy. And it’s like all this juggling, because 32, it turns out, 32 kind of isn’t big enough anymore either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it is definitely time for them to move to 32. And the thing is, with the storage,
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I’m glad that they’re moving up from 16, because if it is 16 again, come on, it’s getting ridiculous.
⏹️ ▶️ John But Google Photos just had that ad, I think, was it a TV ad or an online ad? But anyway, it
⏹️ ▶️ John was an ad ridiculing Apple for people who basically own iPhones
⏹️ ▶️ John and take a lot of pictures, and eventually you can’t take any more pictures because it says your storage is full. Yep. And this is a thing that happens
⏹️ ▶️ John because people take lots of pictures with their phones, and people don’t delete their pictures when
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re done with them because they, you know, like, why would I delete them? I want to keep my photos and Apple has iCloud
⏹️ ▶️ John photo library. It’s supposed to take care of this for you in practice, as I’ve seen in person for myself many, many times.
⏹️ ▶️ John They saw the sort of like optimized storage form you automatically does not do it when you
⏹️ ▶️ John want to. You fill it up and you’re like, okay, optimize storage now. Like what signals you need from
⏹️ ▶️ John me or from the operating system? I am full. I can’t fit him on my thing. It was like I was trying to import photos
⏹️ ▶️ John into into the like I’m in the photos application. I mean, maybe photos isn’t the thing that optimizes storage.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s the background ubiquity demon or whatever, you know, who knows? But I’m trying to import,
⏹️ ▶️ John Photos knows I’m trying to import, Photos tells me there’s not enough room. I’m like, yeah, but I have the optimized storage thing checked off.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just purge a bunch of old pictures, like do it now. And there’s no button that says, please free up my disk
⏹️ ▶️ John space by purging pictures because that’s not the Apple way. And so I’m just stuck there staring at it going, well, you won’t let me import
⏹️ ▶️ John off this SD card. I had optimized storage check. Do I just like wait 24 hours to see if you’ll,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, Do I import just enough photos to push the disk past its storage limit? Like
⏹️ ▶️ John in practice, it doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to work, but Apple really believes their tech lineup, their bullet
⏹️ ▶️ John points are like, oh, well we have app thinning, and we have, you know, incremental downloads of content,
⏹️ ▶️ John and we have optimizing storage for our photos library and for our movies and iCloud storage
⏹️ ▶️ John and backup. So 16 is actually not that bad. Do you remember that story for the past few years? I think Phil Schiller said it in person, one of the things
⏹️ ▶️ John like, 16 doesn’t seem like a lot, but we have all these amazing technologies for compression and putting the files from your
⏹️ ▶️ John desktop and a Mac OS Sierra up to like, yeah, you’ve got all that stuff, but A, you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John fighting it back against the tide. Like people use more storage as time goes on period. That’s just the way it works. And
⏹️ ▶️ John B, that crap doesn’t work. Like it doesn’t work when you need it most. When you run out of space, there
⏹️ ▶️ John is no recourse, there’s no button to push, and it doesn’t magically automatically manage it. What it does to give you is the dialogue
⏹️ ▶️ John that says you’re out of space and people don’t know how to deal with that. And then you get the dialogues about you can’t fit your
⏹️ ▶️ John backup onto iCloud as you increase the storage. So Apple, in theory, has tech surrounding
⏹️ ▶️ John this that mitigates it somewhat, but in practice, that Google ad was
⏹️ ▶️ John right on the money. Like, this is a real experience that people had, and what Google is promising, I don’t know if they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John delivering, because I don’t use Google Photos for anything other than backup, what Google is promising is, hey, we have essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John exactly the same system, but ours actually works, and we won’t give you the out of space, because I imagine Google, on
⏹️ ▶️ John the fly, when you’re taking a picture, if it doesn’t have enough room to store it, it immediately deletes one photo and stores it. Like it does
⏹️ ▶️ John it does a better job of what Apple says it’s going to do so Yeah, Apple Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ John cloud and storage situation remains fraught, but if they’re finally ready to move it to 32 That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John good. If they if they’re getting rid of 64 and it’s gonna be 32 128 256
⏹️ ▶️ John Actually, I think that’s actually not that bad because I feel like 64 should be the minimum anyway, and I
⏹️ ▶️ John like the fact that you have to jump from 32 to 128 But it’s gonna make Apple’s storage
⏹️ ▶️ John pricing tiering look really weird. Like 32 to 128 is an extra $100. Well, but it already did.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I know it always looks weird. Anyway, you just try to think about it. That’s where the magic money
⏹️ ▶️ John is made. But we’ll see what the tiers are.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, some real-time follow-up. I forgot that my iPad is also 32 gigs. Like when I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ordered my 9.7 iPad Pro in May, I wasn’t sure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I would take to the iPad again I’ve been I’ve been kind of an iPad skeptic for so long So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also just got 32 and that was a big problem when I tried a lot of videos on it For the plane ride home from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco WBDC and there was basically no space to do anything useful.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think mine might be as well I don’t have it next to me Additional real-time follow-up panda 19 in the chat
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was able to find the link. I was thinking of it was on Mac rumors Looking at this again. I mean, it’s super sketchy,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it reads includes iPhone 7 plus ear pods with lightning contact connector lightning
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to headphone jack jack adapter, lightning to USB cable, and USB power adapter.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So if it’s real, yeah, we’ll see.
Event expectations: Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John And by the way, speaking of announcements, the alternate show idea I have, because very frequently
⏹️ ▶️ John I think on the show we have a pretty bad track record of predicting what’s going to be announced, but the alternate theory of what could play
⏹️ ▶️ John out in the show is a new iPhone, nothing about Apple Watch and
⏹️ ▶️ John the new laptops, even though they’re not shipping until much later. That is also a show that I could totally envision because
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that fits into the thing of like, hey, we spent all this time talking about Apple Watch 2 and Apple didn’t say a single word
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. I don’t think it’s likely, but that’s the feeling, you know, usually after we do one of these shows, then I watch the actual announcement and I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John like, that’s nothing like what we talked about. We totally got this wrong. I’m pretty sure there’ll be a new iPhone, though.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the question is, like, are they going to have multiple events this fall or not? And I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far, most of the rumblings point to no, it’s a single event again. So if there’s only one public
⏹️ ▶️ Marco event, keep in mind that this is like their whole like holiday shopping lineup that they’re debuting here, too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I think the watch has has it has to be a part of it. Even if all they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to announce is a relatively minor boost of… If
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Watch 2 isn’t even called Watch 2, or if it’s downplayed, it’s like, oh, now… It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new Apple Watch. Yeah, the new Apple Watch has GPS at the $4.99 price point, and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cheaper ones don’t have it. However they do it, the watch is going to be there, because they’re going to have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe new colors. They’re going to definitely have new bands, because bands are seasonal. fashion and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lots of wonderful attachment profit sales there. So like, yeah, there’s going to be new bands for the fall and the winter.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re going to debut all those at this event. So the only reason they wouldn’t is if they’re doing another event
⏹️ ▶️ Marco later in the fall, like right before big shopping season really starts. But I think they’re probably not. And if they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not, this event’s going to be full of stuff to buy for the holiday season. And if Macs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t fit, that’s really sad to me. But I could see there’s no chance the watches are being
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mentioned, and there’s no chance we aren’t getting new bands.
⏹️ ▶️ John The thing I the reason I mentioned like not showing the Washington events and showing the laptops or just showing
⏹️ ▶️ John laptops at all, even though they’re totally not ready or whatever, is just because the whole the whole OLED
⏹️ ▶️ John strip thing on the keyboard, it just seems like the type of feature that Apple would like to
⏹️ ▶️ John announce in a keynote. I know Jason Snell and Six Colors said, you know, they would just do individual press briefings. That’s a possibility,
⏹️ ▶️ John which they’ve done many times before. And that’s true. But I feel like they’ve never done the sort of private embargoed
⏹️ ▶️ John individual press briefings for a feature that so demands a
⏹️ ▶️ John demo and video like a presentation directly from Apple to the public about this feature
⏹️ ▶️ John because normally they would have those briefings about you know a new version of the OS that’s been seen several times
⏹️ ▶️ John before but here’s the official release or or you know the first look at a new OS
⏹️ ▶️ John or new laptops that are better in a couple ways but I just feel like Apple should be
⏹️ ▶️ John the one to present whatever this weird new strip thing is because it is weird like even though PC makers are already doing
⏹️ ▶️ John it and everything like it’s something I feel like they need to explain to the public in some way and
⏹️ ▶️ John even if it’s not gonna ship until like November it would be great if they put
⏹️ ▶️ John just maybe maybe just a 15-inch Pro like just pick one model to explain this whole strip thing
⏹️ ▶️ John and then dole out the other ones and it would also save them from the indignity
⏹️ ▶️ John of pretty much missing another generation like you know the the KB or Kaby Lake
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know how to pronounce it the the one that comes after Skylake has been announced and the laptop chips are coming
⏹️ ▶️ John out and everything so if Apple waits much longer by the time they get their their
⏹️ ▶️ John you know brand new Skylake MacBook Pros out uh the next one will already
⏹️ ▶️ John be shipping in PCs and that’s that’s not not a great look after all the complaints about them
⏹️ ▶️ John being behind like hey we finally did it we updated the MacBook Pros, I know Kaby Lake
⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t that big of a deal, and maybe, and people are saying, like, oh, the reason they’re waiting so long is because they’re gonna have Kaby Lake. Guys, don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, because Kaby Lake, you know, like Skylake was announced a long time ago, too, and we don’t have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that yet. You know, like the Intel’s announcement. Right, I mean, this
⏹️ ▶️ John is the same process, so there’s, you know, but, but it’s, there’s a chance
⏹️ ▶️ John if they, you know, wait a really long time for them to ship, but Kaby Lake all it gives you is essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John better hardware decoding of video, which is great, but I don’t know how much of that Apple uses and a
⏹️ ▶️ John clock speed boost because they have the process allows them to crank it up a little bit, their new
⏹️ ▶️ John FinFET processor, whatever, which is all great and good. And Apple should totally use it as soon as they possibly can.
⏹️ ▶️ John But at this point, I would say, even if you’re going to be a little embarrassed, just ship what you’ve got, ship the frigging Skylake
⏹️ ▶️ John things, just do it and then upgrade them to Kaby Lake as soon as you can. Because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco however, like whatever you whatever Apple feels about like whatever’s holding this back,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the status quo has to be worse of selling these ancient MacBook Pros as new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to anybody who needs one right now. Like that’s that’s got to be worse than whatever’s holding his back. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who knows? We’ll find out one thing I actually do want to mention before we leave the Mac topic here. The rumor has come out in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco last couple days that they that in addition to the MacBook There’s also a MacBook Air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco update to USB-C. And I wanted to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tie this into something else. There was maybe a few months back, I forget when or who,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it might have been Ming-Chi Kuo who said one rumor report from somebody who’s actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly well sourced, that kind of got blown over, that basically said that we’re going to see new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pros and everything. And they also said there’s going to be a new 13-inch MacBook One. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the time we were like what that doesn’t make sense and now there’s a rumor that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s going to be a new MacBook Air update to USB-C. So I think this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same computer they’re talking about and we’ve heard nothing about this from the tipster. So I’m you know this who knows whether
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s anything behind this, but I think this is the two rumors about the same thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it that it basically is an update to the MacBook Air to the 13-inch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Air maybe only 30. Maybe the 11 isn’t even included, maybe it’s only an update to the 13-inch MacBook Air,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and maybe it goes Retina. Because Apple obviously tried with the MacBook 1,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to a large degree succeeded, but they tried to replace the MacBook Air line with something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even more extreme, even thinner, even lighter, even more limited. But it turns out the MacBook Air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really great in a lot of ways that the MacBook 1 can’t or won’t be, because it’s too limited
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in size or thermals or whatever else it can’t to achieve the same thing with the MacBook Air.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So what if Apple kind of was pressured by really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco customer reaction to the MacBook One, and what if they are going to continue kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a MacBook Air, maybe even if just called a MacBook and it happens to be a 13-inch one? Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s it. There would never, it’s not gonna be an Air in anything. It’s just going to be a 13-inch MacBook
⏹️ ▶️ John One, and when it’s 13-inch, and suddenly we have more room for USB ports.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, yeah, so maybe the new 13-inch MacBook One, quote, which is really an Air,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe that uses the MacBook Air internal platform, those wonderful 15-watt CPUs that are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an amazing balance of battery life and performance in Intel’s lineup that right now,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with what we know today so far, like if the MacBook Air goes away, there’s nowhere for those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco CPUs to be used in the lineup. And that would be such a waste, because they’re so good, they’re so compelling, it’s such a great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco balance of what most people need out of performance and battery life. To have that be available
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a 13-inch enclosure that is MacBook Air-like and MacBook-like, you know, somewhere in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco middle there, and to have those nice CPUs, it would have to have a fan, of course, because, you know, those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are a lot hotter CPUs, but that’s okay for a lot of people. Everyone seems to get along with it just fine with every other laptop.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That would be, I think, an amazing product, to basically be a new 13-inch Retina Air.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been assuming this whole time that rather than continue the MacBook Air line in a new way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they were going to just shrink the MacBook Pro line enough so that the 13-inch MacBook Pro would get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco small enough to replace the 13-inch Air. But if they really wanted to keep the 13-inch Air shape
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and slot in the lineup going, they really could do a better job of it keeping it going with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same chipset it’s using now with that line of processors and internals and general shape and size
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather than trying to make the Pro smaller with the Pro’s hotter CPUs, more ports, more capabilities, etc.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if this is true, that there’s going to be a MacBook Air update, and if that old rumor of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 13-inch MacBook is actually tied in and it’s actually the same thing, this could be an amazing computer that comes
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I think you’re kind of forgetting the Tim Cook factor, which is the only reason I’m still entertaining the ideas of the silly MacBook
⏹️ ▶️ John Air continuation. I mean, like, this is the Apple that kept the iPad 2 around for a long time. This is the Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John that is rumored to keep the Apple Watch 1 around. Like, what kind of company would continue selling
⏹️ ▶️ John a non-retina MacBook Air with USB-C upgrade because you could make that machine put you know like you said put 15
⏹️ ▶️ John watt cpu in there with usb-c supporting chipset keep the same old crappy non-retina screen and
⏹️ ▶️ John just keep selling it what kind of monster would do that tim cooke’s apple
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that’s true i’m saying not
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey likely it seems
⏹️ ▶️ John seems really but i can’t totally discount it because that’s that’s the thing like
⏹️ ▶️ John hey people want to keep it’s it’s like it’s like taking it farther away from the whole speeds and
⏹️ ▶️ John feeds type thing because there’s plenty of product categories where like you have a
⏹️ ▶️ John popular model and you just keep selling it. I think I just retweeted today someone uh posted
⏹️ ▶️ John a link to uh a uh a teardown of you know the the shaver at a barber shop that
⏹️ ▶️ John they shave like the back of your neck with the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco little wrist of getting you
⏹️ ▶️ John know they shave my whole head with that john yeah well there you go one of those uh that’s 50 years old
⏹️ ▶️ John and then the same device it purchased in 2016. So 50 years
⏹️ ▶️ John and they pull them apart to see whether like they’re different on the inside because we’ve all seen that shaver our entire lives right it’s a 50
⏹️ ▶️ John year old product and if you look at a modern one they don’t look that much different and guess what on the inside they’re also not that different.
⏹️ ▶️ John Lots of industries sell a product that becomes popular and like if people keep buying it
⏹️ ▶️ John let’s keep selling it. What don’t if it ain’t broke don’t fix it right and you’re like yeah but
⏹️ ▶️ John computers you kind of have to update those right and today’s Apple is like do you
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe we can keep selling a non-retina screen for a really really long people keep buying it like people
⏹️ ▶️ John love that MacBook Air and yeah they would like the computer that Marco described even better but you know how cheap we can
⏹️ ▶️ John make that air now and we paid for the tooling and those non-retina screens are dirt cheap and like
⏹️ ▶️ John you know how long can we sell the iPad to well education blah blah well you know what people suckers keep
⏹️ ▶️ John buying this thing why are we bending over backwards to make make new models, you know? So I don’t like that idea
⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t think that’s a good fit for technology, but Apple in recent years has really been stretching the
⏹️ ▶️ John bounds of what we previously considered a reasonable thing for a technology company to do
⏹️ ▶️ John and their argument would be like, look, if we keep selling them, like you think it’s bad, oh boo
⏹️ ▶️ John hoo, does your opinion matter? Customers are buying them, right? And then our, you know, counter is obviously like your
⏹️ ▶️ John long-term customer side is stupid. You’re being penny wise, pound blah, blah, we can all have that debate.
⏹️ ▶️ John But that’s the only reason I’m not 100% discounting the idea of an actual product labeled MacBook Air
⏹️ ▶️ John with a non-retina screen and a USB-C port on the side, which would just be an abomination that no one wants
⏹️ ▶️ John to see lurch out onto the stage in any sort of presentation. But I live
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that’s all it is. There’s no way we mentioned the event. It would just kind of happen and they would hope nobody noticed on the website.
⏹️ ▶️ John People would notice like, what? Non-retina?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The more I think about this, the more I think, well, obviously we know that there’s a September 7th event,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but what I think about that is it will be an iPhone, which everyone pretty much knows. I think there will be Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Watch 2, and I think that’ll be the whole event. I think there will be a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey brief event after this that will include a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey possibly entirely refreshed line of MacBooks
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and maybe even desktop Macs. I’m looking at you, Mini and Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey God help us, I hope
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Pro. And also the new monitor that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it seems is probably coming, I think will be at that second event.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey What I’m not sure of is if the iPad will get any updates. I don’t think so, and even if it does,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where would that fall? Do they put that in next week’s event because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s iOS? Do they put it in the Phantom later on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey event because it’s a computer replacement, I’m not really sure. But I would guess
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone and watch next week, which is not a very controversial guess,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I do think there will be an event that is after that, that has many
⏹️ ▶️ Casey different kinds of Macs and a new display and whatever else they might wanna release
⏹️ ▶️ Casey before the end of the year. That’s my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John hope. Such an optimist.
⏹️ ▶️ John I would love for that to be true. And like I said, I really do think that that little touchscreen above the keyboard something Apple should
⏹️ ▶️ John present to the public itself and not just do press briefings. But
⏹️ ▶️ John the fantasy event that Casey has outlined where it’s like there’ll be a whole second event and they’ll update the Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John mini and the Pro. Please, I can’t bring myself to believe that anymore. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John I still believe that both those lines will be updated at some point in the future. And I really do believe that new laptops
⏹️ ▶️ John will be announced this year. But the idea of like, hey, like we’re revamping
⏹️ ▶️ John the whole Mac line and even that obscure computer that we never update gets an update. And even the Mac Pro,
⏹️ ▶️ John like, that’s just too much. I can’t fit that in my brain.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, to be clear, the Mac Mini, Mac Pro, those are me reaching. I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey too confident about that. But I think the laptop refresh is big enough to them that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’ll get its own event. And I think they feel like they have too much to talk about between iOS 10,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone 7, or whatever it’s called, backpedaling, except, or not really backpedaling, but justifying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the headphone jack, and watch OS 3 and probably watch 2.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that’s more than enough for a two-hour event next week. And thus, I think
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, I hope and think that there will be enough laptop news to justify
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a brief event subsequent to next week. And my hope and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my reach is that maybe it will be more than just laptops.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope some part of that is right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m going to feel like a fool when I’m completely wrong. But you know what? There’s no fun in betting the obvious.
⏹️ ▶️ John The worst thing about the Max is that my brain has already moved on to thinking about what the KB Lake ones will be like.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like, you know, the other ones aren’t
⏹️ ▶️ John even, it’s just like, I’ve already moved on. Because, you know, as the point of the chat room, a lot of the stuff they have
⏹️ ▶️ John is like, to fix function units for decoding new codecs for the,
⏹️ ▶️ John what is it, HEVC, the,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is that the 265 one? Yes.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, better hardware support for the higher, the higher performance profiles of that, and like
⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of DRM crap, of course, so that you can basically like, all the streaming services that wanna
⏹️ ▶️ John send 4K, they demand new DRM crap so that you can, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John so that your PC or your Mac is allowed to show Netflix 4K content, they do
⏹️ ▶️ John the happy handshake and, you know, support HDMI 2.0 and HTCP 2.2 and all, like, I hate all that stuff. That’ll fix piracy.
⏹️ ▶️ John And yes, it’s so dumb. And I always think
⏹️ ▶️ John like, where is the Blu-ray limit? Because, like, Apple didn’t even include Blu-Ray, because it was too much of a pain in the ass,
⏹️ ▶️ John at a certain point, all this DRM stuff is gonna be like, you know what? You can’t watch Netflix on your computer any more, because it’s too much
⏹️ ▶️ John of a pain in the ass. Netflix is a bag of hard, watch on your damn TV, let the TV manufacturers deal with all
⏹️ ▶️ John this stuff. So far, Apple still seems on board with it, certainly Intel is, and these
⏹️ ▶️ John KabyLake ones are the super low power ones. They’re not the ones that are ever gonna go into desktop. I don’t think any of the ones
⏹️ ▶️ John with the good GPUs that Apple wants, the Iris Pro things are out, It’s not as if we’re expecting these this year.
⏹️ ▶️ John But as we said in past shows, what you can do Apple to show that you’re dedicated to the Mac line
⏹️ ▶️ John is when these Kaby Lake things ship in volume, upgrade your computers to use them next
⏹️ ▶️ John year. How about that?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Casper, Contentful, and Eero. and we will see you next week.
Ending theme
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the
⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at atp.fm And if you’re into
⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and T. Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they didn’t mean to accident.
⏹️ ▶️ John Tech National Podcast.
Post-show: Domain transfers
⏹️ ▶️ Casey In any case, I switched caselist.com to Hover.
⏹️ ▶️ John saw you’re tweeting about it. Did
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you use the Valley Transfer Service? I did. Nice.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so that was the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m always weird about giving them my password. I always just do it myself.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You could also just change your password, then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John give the new one to them. I know, I know the procedure. It just
⏹️ ▶️ John feels weird. Change it to test test and give it to them. I know the drill, but it just seems weird to me. I just like, you know what, I’ll
⏹️ ▶️ John just do it myself. And I’ve come close so many times, like, this sucks so bad. And I’m like, No, let me just do it.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s eventually you get through and you find the secret place and whatever Krabby Registrar you’re using, where they let you
⏹️ ▶️ John unlock it and transfer. And I think I have almost everything over to hover now every time they expire, I,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I bring them over.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’d never transferred a domain before. And I was using do you remember way
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way back in the day, it was popular to run servers out of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your house, but you were on dial up or, you know, maybe you had an IP that changed regularly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a cable modem. DynDNS. Yep. I was still using them up until two weeks ago.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still using no IP, which is the same service as DynDNS.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. So I was using Dyn, which I always thought read as din, but you are right, Marco. I’m almost positive
⏹️ ▶️ John You get Dyn right, but you still call it mov, huh? Yeah, it’s mov. Because Dyn is the beginning of dynamic.
⏹️ ▶️ John move is the beginning of movie. It’s a mov-y file. Let’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey go to the Marvies. I’m giving you an air high