Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

174: A Ding in the Room

Our WWDC 2016 special.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. watchOS 3
  2. Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP10)
  3. tvOS
  4. macOS
  5. APFS
  6. Sponsor: Automatic (code ATP0315)
  7. iOS 10
  8. Sponsor: Pingdom (code ATP)
  9. Messages
  10. Closing thoughts
  11. Ending theme

watchOS 3

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is there where’s there a good summary of what the hell happened in the keynote I’m or in your notes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey god damn it John I didn’t take

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco good notes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What do you want from me?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You guys are the best So we are here live In California

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost on vacation. We are in my hotel room. So any weird audio things that might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or might not be here That’s a the park 55s fault. Definitely not ours. Yeah, so we just got out of the State

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the Union and So I guess there’s a lot to cover here I don’t know how much we’re gonna get to today because we have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bit of a time limit So let’s just try to get started, huh?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. So what was the first thing that was covered in the keynote? It was it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was all a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco blur Watch OS 3. Holy crap

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It turns out that watch OS 3 is actually the first non beta version of watch OS in my personal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey opinion Man, did it look good? Well, we haven’t used it yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So we don’t know look I said look good I didn’t say it was good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but honestly, no, I mean, I mean, you know, I’m kind of a watch skeptic at this point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Are you?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, I mean, I think it looks great. And I was really, really hoping that they would,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, kind of just read, rethink the watch, rethink the app paradigm, rethink

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the difference between the glances and the app and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything else. And I think they did. And it looks really good. I’m very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tentatively optimistic about it, honestly. I think it shows that they are, like, you know, by getting rid of the glances

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and by consolidating, you know, the app with the face and everything, it looks like they are actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco willing to reconsider and rethink fundamental things about how the watch works. And that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is awesome. And because, you know, it kind of needed that. You know, I think the overall impression

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I think we’re getting from Apple about the watch during this is, please

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use apps. First of all, please make apps for it. And then secondly, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are being much more forward with users, including things like the complication

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gallery they showed off at the end of the State of the Union there. They’re being more forward with users about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how they discover that they can put apps on their watch. And by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making the apps better, hopefully they’ll make them a little more sticky and useful for people. So overall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks great, and I really hope that it ends up performing and just being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as good as it looks in the keynote.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, as the one of the three of us that I think is most enthusiastic about the watch, I was overjoyed by what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I saw. It looked unbelievable. Apple apparently has made tremendous strides on making

⏹️ ▶️ Casey app launching considerably quicker. As far as we know, all of that is software.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It doesn’t require any new watch hardware, which presumably is coming sometime soon, but no formal mention

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was made of it. It looked awesome. And there were some other features that I thought were really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The emergency thing that they did. So if you mash down on what was once the completely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey useless contacts button, but is now the like, what is that? The glances button or not glances,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but like the app

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John switch. It’s like the app switch. The dock button. Yes, right. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway, so you mash down on the dock button and it shows you what today is the three sliders, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is power off, power reserve, and lock device. Well, if you hold down on the button long enough, it will eventually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey place an emergency call to the local emergency number in the particular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey locality that you’re sitting in. And so if you’re in Hong Kong and you have an American

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watch, it will call whatever the appropriate number is in Hong Kong. If you’re in America, regardless, if your watch happens to be British, it will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey call 911. It’s very, very cool. And it will also, I guess, send a push notification to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey emergency contacts with your location and, and I guess whereabouts or whatever. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looked really, really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is, I mean, I worry a little bit about how easy it is to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco invoke, like if you just hold down the button, because it is fairly, you know, it’s not that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uncommon to accidentally hold down a button on your watch if it’s like pressing against something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So to have an action that only requires it to be held down for a long time with no additional confirmation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco step, I think there’s a bit of a risk of false alarms there. But overall, the idea of this feature is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really nice. Implementation details aside, the idea of it is great. And it’s yet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one more reason why some people might want the watch, yet one more benefit some people might get from it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t expect this to be extremely widely used. But for the people who do use it, it’ll make a really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big difference in their life. And that’s nothing to sneeze at.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think you can’t make it too complicated, though. Because if you’re in a situation, you can’t really make it be an interaction.

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t really make it so okay well to call 901 do this

⏹️ ▶️ John then look at your watch then place your finger precisely to touch this thing then do that then you know like confirm

⏹️ ▶️ John and double confirm and insert both keys it really has to be the all I can do in this injured state

⏹️ ▶️ John is grow up for my watch feel a physical button and hold it down for a really long time and even that may be beyond the

⏹️ ▶️ John physical abilities of someone who’s in a real dire emergency I mean a more clever

⏹️ ▶️ John well I don’t know for more clever a and even more prone to false alarms implementation would be if it

⏹️ ▶️ John notices like your heart rate going down to unsafe levels or something. But then again, some people have really

⏹️ ▶️ John low heart rates and I don’t know, you know, like you’re trying to make it sort of the

⏹️ ▶️ John this watch is actively monitoring whether this person is alive and healthy and when they’re not, it sends

⏹️ ▶️ John notifications. I don’t have to call 911 but at least sending their their location out to

⏹️ ▶️ John their emergency contact or whatever. I mean, overall, for all the watch three things,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to be mean to Apple, but it kind of makes me wonder. Yeah, watch has been in development for a long

⏹️ ▶️ John time, and they launched it with one of only two physical buttons on the device

⏹️ ▶️ John being a feature that basically nobody used, and they fixed that and watch OS three. Great, good kudos. We’re all talking about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, they’ve consolidated things, and they’ve I think that was one of the biggest applause lines when people realized that they repurpose

⏹️ ▶️ John that huge button on the side to something that people do. I’m like, when you were testing it internally, did you

⏹️ ▶️ John have testers bias where you were so enamored with the idea of contacting the other five people on the watch

⏹️ ▶️ John OS team and sending them scribbles or whatever like that, that you convinced yourself that that is actually

⏹️ ▶️ John such an important feature that deserve this big button. I think it reveals a flaw in their

⏹️ ▶️ John testing group or methodology or some other bias that

⏹️ ▶️ John they missed this. And it’s also a shame because of Apple’s release cycles that they kind of had to wait for an entire year for them to fix this because it required

⏹️ ▶️ John a big rethink. Like, I feel like almost all the things that they’re revamping here, with the exception of the tech

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff of making it launch faster, but almost all the other revampings seem like things they could have discovered

⏹️ ▶️ John with a with a broader test group when they were coming up with the first design and the rest of the stuff like

⏹️ ▶️ John making it launch faster. That’s it’s not really making a launch faster. It’s making it be already launched. I can be already there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Keep more stuff in memory so you don’t have to launch it because you’re never going to be able to launch it fast in this slow hardware.

⏹️ ▶️ John That seems like a good rethinking. I’ve heard some people say that it’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ John still not quite streamlined enough and that you could streamline it further so that you could control the entire watch

⏹️ ▶️ John with just the physical buttons. For example, when your fingers are sweaty, the sweaty finger people are very angry. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the idea

⏹️ ▶️ John that trying to use your watch at a certain point, your finger becomes useless because it’s too sweaty,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And so they want to be able to quickly hit physical buttons to stop and start a timer on their workout and

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff in situations where their finger cannot precisely interact with the screen in any way. So I think there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John still ways to go in terms of accessibility for can I use the watch like a regular watch without touching

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen at all? I’m not sure that’s a use case that Apple cares about at this point, but definitely watch West three is a

⏹️ ▶️ John huge step in the right direction on all fronts, especially if it performs the way they showed and

⏹️ ▶️ John especially if whatever hit there is to battery life is not noticeable. Because one thing I think people have mostly not been complaining

⏹️ ▶️ John about is that my watch dies in the middle of the day. So maybe they have a little bit of battery to spare. Maybe they can squish things down

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’ll be enough overhead for all these background updates and stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Well, I mean the watch battery is a bit of a problem for the 38 millimeter users who use workout mode a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot. That’s true. But beyond that, yeah, then generally you’re right. I mean most I mean when I was wearing the watch, I would finish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most days with like 50% battery left, which is great, but you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John weren’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the apps

⏹️ ▶️ John on the watch

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like that’s that’s true. See how

⏹️ ▶️ John this works out in practice was like if you know because the apps were so cumbersome to use, you wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John use it for that. And so now if they become better to use, I don’t know, their whole the whole pressure is that we want people

⏹️ ▶️ John to be in and out of the app quickly, small, quick interactions, and your interactions can’t be quick if you can’t start them until,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, 310 seconds past, they also were talking about how the current app won’t go away

⏹️ ▶️ John for a much longer period of time. So if you’re in the store looking at a shopping list, every time you bring the you know, you look at the

⏹️ ▶️ John shopping list, you somehow navigate to it and you check off the item you just got. And then you put your arm down.

⏹️ ▶️ John You walk 20 feet in the aisle, pick up another item, pick up your watch again. It’s like I have no idea what you were just looking at. Here’s the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like I was just looking at the grocery list, find the grocery list again, even if it’s as simple as like hit the button, swipe, swipe

⏹️ ▶️ John to the dock, go back into the it will remember. Oh, you were just looking at your grocery list and stick on that. And this is kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John like a mind reading thing where when you want it to be on the last thing you were looking at, you’re frustrated that it’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you just want to show the time, you’re frustrated that it’s showing the previous watch. So this is another delicate balance, and I

⏹️ ▶️ John hope they sort of user tested this more in the real world. Maybe now that the watch is publicly could they

⏹️ ▶️ John could have been all wearing it. Maybe that was the flaw in the methodology. If you try to wear it secretly with a small group of people, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not going to learn like because it’s so easy to convince yourself that little wheel of people is like super awesome

⏹️ ▶️ John and you could send each

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey other

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like digital touches

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff. And then once it’s out in the wide world, you’re like, you know what? I don’t find myself

⏹️ ▶️ John using the wheel of people that often. We have this whole big button. Let’s use or something else. But but Kudos to them for

⏹️ ▶️ John not being stubborn and saying, you know, they didn’t come up with the right paradigm the first time. So let’s try

⏹️ ▶️ John again instead of trying to just let me just do minor tweaks and maybe we can adjust and it’s as if they changed the purpose of the home

⏹️ ▶️ John button on iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it

⏹️ ▶️ John used to be when you push the home button, you went back to the big grid of icons. We turned out that’s totally wrong and we’re using for something

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco else.

⏹️ ▶️ John They got that right the first time on the phone. They did not get it right on the watch. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we should probably move on from the watch pretty soon. But a couple of other notes, A lot more support

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for people who are wheelchair bound, which I thought was really, really cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was great. And among other things, the stand notification now says time to roll, take a break

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and push around for one minute. I thought that was really awesome. I can imagine if I was in a wheelchair,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would think that’s amazing and certainly more inclusive. They did a lot, well, they sort of did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot with faces. So there’s different faces, newer faces, more customizable faces, yet, unless I’m missing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something, you can’t, as a third party developer, make your own face. It’s just that complications

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are a little bit more robust now. Is that kind of a fair summary?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s basically it. I mean, yeah, you have basically no ability to make faces at all, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco complications suck less. You know, before, like, one of the reasons why we haven’t seen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, incredibly useful complications from developers is that there’s been all sorts of limitations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in place. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Underscore is way better to, you know, qualify to talk about this than I am. Because basically, from what he told me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I discovered there was nothing for me to do there, really, before. Just things like how often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can the complication update its own data from its app versus just try to guess from a timeline what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it should be discovering, and stuff like that. So with this release, some of those limitations have been lifted.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I mean, they haven’t been removed. Maybe the limits have been raised, or some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new things are possible that weren’t possible before in a complication. But it seems like the major advantage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that watch apps have is that kind of unified glance slash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app mode. And if you’re configured as a complication, you are more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frequently kept in memory or something. I don’t know the details, but you have higher privileges in the system, and you’re refreshed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more often, and you can respond faster because you’re kept more in memory. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for people who want to configure one or two apps as their complications, those apps will be substantially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco faster to respond than the other ones in the system. But we’ll see how that shakes out. And all

⏹️ ▶️ John the apps will have background refresh, So the big slam on the old watch was

⏹️ ▶️ John that a lot of the times when you went to anything, any kind of screen, very often you saw old information. And by going

⏹️ ▶️ John to the screen, you triggered, OK, now this application gets to do something to update its information. And again, that kills

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole get in, get out, quick nature of the watch. The new system is background refresh for all apps, privilege

⏹️ ▶️ John for, I think it’s for all apps, definitely privilege if it’s a complication. And the little

⏹️ ▶️ John demo they gave was update all of your UI so it always matches. So you’re never in a situation where the

⏹️ ▶️ John glance shows one thing, but if you launch the app, it showed something else. But if you saw in the complication, it shows

⏹️ ▶️ John a third thing. Just keep them all in sync, all always up to date. And in the old

⏹️ ▶️ John regime of watchOS 2, you couldn’t do that because you weren’t running until they activated you. And by then, it was too late because

⏹️ ▶️ John you were supposed to already have the information. So they’ve learned that lesson. They’ve implemented, hopefully in a way that,

⏹️ ▶️ John again, doesn’t kill your battery and sorts out the limited memory on the watch in a way that actually enables

⏹️ ▶️ John the applications you use frequently to be all up to date, all consistent.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, and it all looked really, really good. It was funny that they actually showed a demonstration of watchOS 2

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and how crappy it is to load

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco an app on watchOS 2.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it was Kevin Lynch, I believe,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said in so many words, look at how crappy this is, you guys. But don’t worry, we fixed it, so it’s all good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, Apple’s willing to critique their own past work once the problems go away.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, I was about to say, once the problem’s gone, then we’re cool. It isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how crappy this is, it’s look how crappy this was.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey And now we’ve fixed it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re right. A couple of quick other watch highlights. Scribble, I think they called it, so you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually do handwriting on the watch, and that’ll turn into text. I don’t think that’s going to be terribly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey convenient. However, I do applaud the fact that it’s a possibility, that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something you can do. Because sometimes you maybe don’t want to dictate, and maybe you only want to write one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey word. Like the example on the Apple website that goes through all the different stuff on the watch is the word Starbucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like you’re not gonna want to you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco not you may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not want to dictate that necessarily but at least you can scribble out STA ARB and it would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hopefully figure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco out I would I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would never want to be be heard saying the word Starbucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John naturally I’d be too embarrassed

⏹️ ▶️ John feels more like an accessibility feature feature for people who have difficulty speaking to it because I can’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John of a situation where I mean you can whisper to the watch bring it right up to your face and say Starbucks

⏹️ ▶️ John whisper it’s like a prayer like but because scratching out those letters

⏹️ ▶️ John graffiti styles not that you can actually write actual letters on the little watch face, especially if you have the small watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh boy, that does not sound like a good time and dictation for people who haven’t tried it dictating on the watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John like dictating anywhere. If you’re afraid to be talking to your devices, just do it a few times to realize, wow, this is faster than

⏹️ ▶️ John I could type on a keyboard because it usually is for most people. It’s really efficient. But yeah, it’s nice. They added there

⏹️ ▶️ John as an option. And that’s definitely a sign of a watch OS three feature. Hey, we’ll throw it in. We can do it. Maybe it’ll be good. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be bad. Maybe a few people use it in certain situations. But why not? Certainly it’s not sucking your battery

⏹️ ▶️ John up. It’s an input mode and yeah, it’s better than digital doodles to each other. Oh yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it also supports Chinese, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really impressive. And actually, that’s a great mini segue. There were a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey handful of people of color on stage. There were a handful of women on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John stage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I thought every single one of the people of color and women on stage absolutely killed it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’ll talk a little bit more later about the woman whose name escapes me that did the music demo, who I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought was fantastic, and the woman who did the scribble, the Chinese

⏹️ ▶️ Casey scribble demo. I could have practiced that character, a couple of characters, for six weeks and would have

⏹️ ▶️ John screwed it up. Yeah, that’s difficult. The amount of space. I mean, it looks so big up on the screen. Oh, it’s drawing a Chinese character. But think

⏹️ ▶️ John of, like, some of those strokes were so small. Like, the finger must have been covering the entire thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know enough about Fari’s text input to know how important it is to be

⏹️ ▶️ John able to do this on the watch like is dictation worse in in Chinese or Japanese or other languages

⏹️ ▶️ John like that because I don’t know it you know it still seems like it would be faster to dictate but certainly

⏹️ ▶️ John drawing out characters or he’s like you know selecting radicals or whatever and combining into characters

⏹️ ▶️ John like when you have languages that don’t just have 26 letters it’s a it’s a big feature

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well and also like you know when you have a language like that where the the density of like how many characters you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to express the message that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you’re trying to send

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you have like you know only a handful of characters versus like you know having us type out five words I think it’s more compelling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s it’s you know less time to input this thing on this on this very on this device that has very limited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco input capabilities but you know overall I think the the doodling of characters is it’s the kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing where like it’s going to be one of those fine balances where it has to be a very short thing you’re trying to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doodle and it has to be way faster than doing it on but then taking out your phone and just doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s only you know if it’s all it’s all down to like the the implementation and the context in which you’re doing these things. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s going to be a big pain, like the first few times you do it, you’re probably just gonna say, All right, I’m just gonna take out my phone from now on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do this. This thing. So it has to be really good. And you know, it’s probably not going to be that widely used,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’ll be nice for the for occasional use, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m getting back to the diversity topic. Like, yeah, we’ve done this before. There’s only so much Apple can do

⏹️ ▶️ John here because they’re the high level C level executives. The people on there like important people page

⏹️ ▶️ John are mostly all white guys, right? And you have to wait for them to die or retire to be replaced until you

⏹️ ▶️ John can fix your diversity problem at the top, right? You know, like, that’s just a problem

⏹️ ▶️ John they face from years and years of not paying enough attention to this topic. So they’re fixing

⏹️ ▶️ John it in presentations the best they can. They still have, you know, Craig Federighi and Eddie Q and

⏹️ ▶️ John like everyone else up there like doing it and Tim Cook and like the whole people who are really, really in charge at the very

⏹️ ▶️ John top, but right below them. The people who do the demos, there’s no reason that those have to be a bunch of people

⏹️ ▶️ John who look exactly like them. Right. And so they’re doing they’re doing a good job. They’re doing it

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s amazing. Like they could have done this many years ago, but it’s taken a long time for them to realize,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, like the first time they did it be like, we’ll have one woman presenter like keep trying.

⏹️ ▶️ John Okay, we’ll have two women presenters, but both white good. You’re making progress. It’s like they’re they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John slowly working the way up to it. And like you said, all the presenters were great. And of course, they’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ John be great because again, these aren’t just like random people they picked out of Apple employees. If you look at their titles, they’re in charge

⏹️ ▶️ John of or intimately involved with the products they’re presenting. They’re not like random drop in people.

⏹️ ▶️ John They know their stuff. They’re enthusiastic about it. And like everyone else on stage, they rehearse the hell out of them.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ John so everybody’s good. So that was nice to see. It’s like I said, it’s still going to be years and

⏹️ ▶️ John years before you see that at the very top. But I hope all presentations are like this should be like

⏹️ ▶️ John the minimum bar now

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or below

⏹️ ▶️ John the top level. They should all be like this and quality wise as well, because, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought I thought it actually added to the quality of the presentation as a whole to hear different voices. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and because these these people were like you said, so freaking good at doing these presentations. I mean, these a handful of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these people were the first time I’d seen them on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John stage and And they’re better than Craig’s first time. Oh, God, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, to be fair, I freaking love Craig

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco now. They’re better than Eddie Q now. Yeah, that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s true. Poor Eddie. Come on, let’s not be mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John him.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos. I can’t wait to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so that’s Watch OS. And I think the best summary of the Watch OS part of the keynote, which up until the State of the Union was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my favorite thing I’d seen so far today. But the summary page for the preview page

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Watch OS, which I mentioned briefly earlier, It says at the top of the screen, Watch OS

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feels like a whole new watch, which is kind of uncomfortable that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, hey, well, this old stuff was crap, but hey, we fixed it. We’re cool. We’re all good, right? But it’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I’m really, really, I’m really excited about where this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going and the watch looks really great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Fracture.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey The only thing I really got from that that I was really excited about, there were two things actually. One, dark mode, which is something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t even know I wanted. But now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know you did, as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That’s really good. And supposedly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey single sign-on, which supposedly will fix all those problems. That’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be awesome too. So dark mode, I’ve noticed recently that some TVOS apps have been implementing

⏹️ ▶️ John their own dark mode. Like they’ve been responding, I guess, assuming user requests for it. And like, why? Why do people care

⏹️ ▶️ John about dark mode? It’s not just aesthetics. But you know, aesthetics is one thing. Just ask Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ John people sometimes like dark mode for their applications. Second thing is people watch television in darkened rooms sometimes. And if

⏹️ ▶️ John your UI has a white background, and you come out of any kind of video, which usually doesn’t have a white background,

⏹️ ▶️ John it can be extremely sort of shocking and glaring. And this is not

⏹️ ▶️ John why they did it. But for me specifically, I have a plasma TV and pure white on a plasma TV

⏹️ ▶️ John draws a lot of extra power and can make your transformers whine a little bit. And it’s the situation.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s again, this is not why they did it, but I’m excited by it. And also because I watch TV in a semi

⏹️ ▶️ John semi darkened room at night. So it kind of boggles my mind that they decided to go with white for their

⏹️ ▶️ John TV UI because they know people watch TV and kind of darkened rooms. And you know, when the

⏹️ ▶️ John show is over and you hit the menu button, you don’t want your eyeballs is blown out, especially since non plasma TVs have incredible

⏹️ ▶️ John brightness like LED TVs can go super, super bright and sometimes people haven’t turned up that bright so they can

⏹️ ▶️ John see them in bright sunlight. It’s just not a good plan. And the single sign on is the other major pain point

⏹️ ▶️ John for like, you know, when you install applications, you got to go through this little dance and go to a website and type in these codes.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think that stops regular people from installing too many apps because it’s a pain in the butt. If there is a single sign on

⏹️ ▶️ John that you can do once and handles all that for you and people implement it, which I’m sure they will because people want you to install their

⏹️ ▶️ John apps. This will be great. So two thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it seems, I mean, the single sign on, I don’t honestly, you know, because I don’t have cable and you know, I’m probably never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see this myself. But, uh, the, the dark mode, just going back to that for a second, you know, there, we, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saw like with the, with watchOS with the updates, it seems like watchOS is getting like a major course correction

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and with iOS, which we’ll get to in a little bit, I’m sure, uh, it seems like the design language

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been updated to some degree as somewhat of a course correction, somewhat just refreshing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things, making things new. You know, things like buttons are now more visible as buttons and some of the text is a little bit thicker to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be more legible and stuff. The TV getting dark mode, I wonder if that is kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like a half step in a course correction where like, you know, the previous Apple TV was all constantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dark background. You know, most other TV boxes do dark background because, you know, all the reason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you said, it basically works better for TVs, the way TVs are actually used and TV hardware and everything, the new Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco TV getting this all white theme up front, honestly, I consider that a design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco misstep. And I think, you know, they should have, like instead of just offering dark mode,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they should just make TVOS 10 or whatever it’s gonna be called, just make it dark. Like just retheme the whole

⏹️ ▶️ Marco OS to be dark because most of the other design elements don’t have to change. That’s one of the reasons they’re able to offer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a dark mode without a whole ton of work. Like almost all the rest of the design works whether it’s a light or dark background.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So why not course correct all the way and just re-theme tvOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be dark and not have this weird setting and have everybody dual design their

⏹️ ▶️ John apps. Part of the reason they chose light mode is it was a differentiator. Because like you said, every other

⏹️ ▶️ John TV box was a blackish background with stuff on it and Apple was different.

⏹️ ▶️ John Different in a bad way in this case, but it is differentiated in the market. It seems like they don’t want to give that. Even their dark mode is not black

⏹️ ▶️ John like the old Apple TV. It looks like it’s dark gray. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, this is not, The things that are

⏹️ ▶️ John most wrong with tvOS are mostly involved inside the applications themselves. How do I navigate?

⏹️ ▶️ John How is it presented? And that’s not an OS-level problem. That’s like a problem of how do you implement your

⏹️ ▶️ John app for showing TV shows and movies. And individual apps can fix that. Apple’s may still be

⏹️ ▶️ John not particularly convenient to use, but the Netflix app or whatever can continue to make a pleasant experience

⏹️ ▶️ John within the framework that’s provided.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. The other thing that’s worth bringing up with regard to the TV is the new remote app that wasn’t Q promised like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three months

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when he was on the talk show. Yeah, you’re right. It was on the talk show, wasn’t it? That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here now. And to be honest, I don’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John see why that’s for people to play games, but

⏹️ ▶️ John they can have multiple controllers because you can use any any iOS devices control. That was the other big announcement in the State of the Union

⏹️ ▶️ John that TVOS games can finally require a real controller. Again, a misstep that

⏹️ ▶️ John seems remember there was a bouncing back and forth when the thing was released about the copy. But this is

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know how you can come to that decision and not realize

⏹️ ▶️ John the implications. It’s not like anything has changed radically in the market since then. They’ve just like heard the cries of everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John else and those same cries like if you just got any five valve is into the room and said, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can write games for Apple TV. Oh, but you have to you have to make them usable in this terrible little remote

⏹️ ▶️ John like seriously. No, you have to why was want everyone to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco be able to play

⏹️ ▶️ John them well, then there’s certain kinds of games. We just can’t make well try harder and then

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. They still seem weird about games. Apple is always weird about games. This is a

⏹️ ▶️ John step in the right direction. Those controllers are still super expensive. And they show that now we have support

⏹️ ▶️ John for four controllers. A family that buys four controllers plus the price of an Apple. Four controllers cost like what? Twice as much

⏹️ ▶️ John as an Apple TV? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because aren’t they still like 40 or 50

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John bucks each? I thought it was at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey least 50, but I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John Their gaming story is still muddled as compared to the consoles, But you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time marches on I mean, you know console controllers aren’t cheap either but but you know overall Yeah, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re good. You’re definitely getting to console price territory if you’re planning on buying for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John controllers Yeah, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think if that ends up working out like if we get cool multiplayer games

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That could be really great. Like that could be an awesome thing for the

⏹️ ▶️ John platform if they cared They’d make a first-party controller, but I dread them doing well based on the design of their first party remote.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But yeah, that was tvOS and I mean, I think it looks good We really should

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have Joe Steele on or something like that to see if he’s happy But, to me, it looked good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But we’ll see what happens.


⏹️ ▶️ Casey After tvOS was iOS 10. So when I said iOS, I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey meant OS 10, which isn’t OS 10

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I like the beginning. They had Tim Cook come out and say, we have four platforms, and listed them off. And they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John do the rename then. It was a weird kind of, I don’t know how they arranged the presentation,

⏹️ ▶️ John if that was an intentional tease, or they just realized, oh, at this point, we can’t tell them it’s macOS. So

⏹️ ▶️ John Craig got to come out and do his renaming slide that he’s done for the past few picking place names in California.

⏹️ ▶️ John Only this time it was about changing it to lowercase macOS, Casey’s favorite name.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that was fine. We expected it. What did they talk about?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I will say, though, I did kind of expect them to just go with macOS 12. I didn’t expect the California

⏹️ ▶️ Marco names to continue.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John I totally expected

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that. But some of the places in California,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s such a great branding, because they ran out of cats. Cats were a good branding, too, but they ran out. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they won’t run out

⏹️ ▶️ John of place names in California.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And I

⏹️ ▶️ John think the place names are better than years, and they’re better than numbers. By the way, the version is 1012. So not that

⏹️ ▶️ John it matters anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And also, Sierra is a way better name than freaking El Capitan, which I still hate.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Well, that time is over now. Yeah, thank goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sierra is a good name.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in macOS Sierra, there is a Siri, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looked very powerful. And toward the end of the Siri demo, it appeared

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as though it was doing a very Google Photos style, like show me the files that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey involve, I don’t know, I’m trying to think of a good example, whatever example they use, but you know, show me the files about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the party I’m throwing. No, show me the ones I worked on with Aaron or something along

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco those lines

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where you’re refining a search query, but being fairly abstract, well, I mean, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of abstract, right? Show me the files about the party we’re planning, you know, or something along those lines. And it was able to piece together

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what that meant, know the ones that I worked on with Aaron, and then bring down a shorter list. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t like that it was very goofy in the initial response.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I was

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to be funny and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey be like, Here’s your files.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re a master filer. I love

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the way

⏹️ ▶️ John you work. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole Siri being what it thinks is funny and clever, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John time is over. I think we need to drop

⏹️ ▶️ John that. No, there’s a place for that. But it’s not when you’re in the middle of an interaction and narrowing searches. And the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John that everything was in Notification Center was weird, and they have another mechanism for saved searches. And speaking of the photo stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of the features that we’re going to talk about in the context of iOS, I think it’s pretty clear now that they’re also available on the Mac. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John the photos, and the deep learning, and the blah, blah, blah. a lot of those like oh and also on photos on

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac which is great like but they just didn’t demo it in the context of the Mac you know back back in the days for iOS all these

⏹️ ▶️ John features would have been demoed like here’s you know face detection for example and it was shown in iPhoto it was it was shown

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac and iPhoto all the stuff here with face detection and stuff I assume is all of it better all be available

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac but they didn’t demo it in that context so surely Siri will fit in with that but really

⏹️ ▶️ John it seemed like the the new impressive features of Siri were mostly reserved to be shown in connection

⏹️ ▶️ John with iOS. I’m assuming some of them are on the Mac, but the fact that Siri exists on the Mac is good. The

⏹️ ▶️ John UI and having stuff in Notification Center, maybe not so good. And my hope unification

⏹️ ▶️ John of Spotlight and Siri doesn’t seem to be in the cards. They still seem to be separate things, which seems silly to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do kind of like, it kind of bothers me how Notification Center is kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the junk drawer on OS X of like where they shove new features that like, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of which come from iOS. Then the way they do it, the way they do that is just by like having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this ios like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John drawer on it’s like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like an ios simulator simulator that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hiding yeah right in the screen in this skinny mode

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like i do wish there was like a little bit you know maybe more more native seeming or more you know more integrated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know integration of these features but you know i guess you know well that’ll work itself out over time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as they as they you know work for your designs and as they see how this feature to use but yeah overall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it looks pretty cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do think though i will go back and say like I think there I think the room for Siri to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have any kind of personality or wit I think that’s over because that gets old first of all that it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t translate well to a lot of different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John cultures you people you want to have

⏹️ ▶️ John that wit when you’re conversing with it in a funny way not what now when you’ve started doing

⏹️ ▶️ John a task

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I think it gets old after like five seconds and then and once you’re past that point like you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to hear you don’t want your your computer to be witty like when you type in commands in command line do you get witty responses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from bash?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey No.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I like it occasionally but the problem is there’s no way to tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when I’m going to receive it and think oh that’s really cute and when I’m gonna see you’re filing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is styling like come on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John really? They

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have the personalization stuff down like the whole thing we’re talking about with Google is like it should learn my preferences

⏹️ ▶️ John if you love the thing to be funny that for those people it should be funny for the people don’t like to be funny it should learn

⏹️ ▶️ John that that doesn’t want them you know that that is not even in the cards in terms of personalized interaction

⏹️ ▶️ John with Syria that it will learn from what you do and how you interact with it what it is you like and don’t like and that

⏹️ ▶️ John they need to get on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it also like it’s kind of no good if it’s being funny and also not doing what you wanted yeah that’s the worst

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like then you really hate it you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like why are you being funny you just failed at what I asked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you to do so like it just doesn’t hear us practice

⏹️ ▶️ John here are some websites I found for why you being funny

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I can search

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the web for that if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you’d like I mean yeah seriously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah it has to like I just think they’re the chances of that not being annoying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are so low that they should just

⏹️ ▶️ John not do it we

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey forgot

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ve got the tabs and windows or windows and tabs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no we forgot a bunch of things actually so going back the unlocking the Mac with walks watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey proximity

⏹️ ▶️ John really

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey dig it or touch

⏹️ ▶️ John touch ID on the keyboard of your Mac just saying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah maybe you never now. I really dig the proximity thing. What I want to see though is how is corporate IT going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to like that sort of thing? I suspect that anyone who has a job that has more than just a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey few people at it will probably have the kibosh put on that immediately or kibosh however you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco pronounce it. I got a lot of flack about that. Honest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco question, do companies that have that kind of strict security requirement often use Macs?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco so my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey company issued me a 15-inch MacBook Pro and issues a lot of developers 15-inch MacBook Pros.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the VPN software we use, which is Checkpoint VPN, also includes an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on-device firewall that prevents all sorts of crap like AirDrop. Why is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey AirDrop filtered by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John my on-device VPN? It doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John even have to be a secure company. As soon as you have an IT department, they

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey want to lock all that stuff down. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s annoying. So I don’t run the VPN on this computer unless I actually… It’s not even installed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unless I need to do something for work involving the VPN when I will and then I will install it do my work and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uninstall the VPN because it’s that much of a nightmare. But anyway, I really like the idea of unlocking them the watch by proximity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really dig it Universal clipboard. I love this. This looks

⏹️ ▶️ John amazing Universal clipboard looks like a good idea But as someone who uses

⏹️ ▶️ John the clipboard to store lots of crap I saw it as a potential for data loss where some until I

⏹️ ▶️ John get into the right mindset that I don’t have the idea that copying something on my phone will squish

⏹️ ▶️ John what’s on my Mac. Now, I use a clipboard history thing, so I won’t really squish it. I’ll just push it down, but it’s still a little

⏹️ ▶️ John weird for regular people. I think it’ll be fine if it works. Well, historically, continuity has been weird and flaky, and if

⏹️ ▶️ John this is built on top of continuity, I don’t know. But many third party applications have proven that this is something people

⏹️ ▶️ John want. They want to be able to copy on their iOS device and paste on their Mac. I find myself about to

⏹️ ▶️ John try to do it before I realize that I don’t have any of those apps installed and it won’t work.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like continuity, if this works, I will come to rely on it. But if it’s at

⏹️ ▶️ John all flaky, I will just go back to pretending it doesn’t exist. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I completely agree with you. I’m really looking forward to it, though. It looked super impressive to me. I still miss

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Payspot from way back in the day. I’m hopeful that it works well. There are a few things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that Apple has done today make me think they’re really, really going all in on iCloud, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is bold. I mean, some things that are server-side with Apple, like messages, seem

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to work pretty well, generally speaking. And the CloudKit-based things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that Apple’s done, like Notes, for example, seem to be working well, generally speaking. But I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am very scared about having this all rely on some sort of server-side. I’m assuming, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not, maybe it’s only local, but I’m assuming some server-side thing on Apple’s part.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, the one I’m thinking of And the one I tweeted about when I said, I’m scared, hold me, was the

⏹️ ▶️ John disk optimization. The idea is good. People run out of disk space on their Mac, they have

⏹️ ▶️ John no idea what the hell to do about it. And Apple can sell you more space in their iCloud Drive thing if they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John transparently take your files and take the ones you haven’t used in a while, push them up to the cloud, and free up the space. And it

⏹️ ▶️ John will all be transparent to you, and you’ll save a lot of room on your Mac. I’m like, this is basically automated cleaning that

⏹️ ▶️ John people don’t do manually, which is all great. I’m all for this feature concept-wise And implementation-wise,

⏹️ ▶️ John especially if it’s entirely transparent, or well, not entirely transparent, you would still want some way for people to

⏹️ ▶️ John know, did this file get pushed up to the cloud? Lots of people have expressed the idea, I want to be able to tell

⏹️ ▶️ John that it shouldn’t push these files up to the cloud. I don’t know. Like there are lots of pitfalls

⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of the implementation of this. But the real one is, if it doesn’t work, like

⏹️ ▶️ John reliably all the time, or at least as reliably this Dropbox, then then it’s just like

⏹️ ▶️ John a giant potential data loss button where you can turn this on and Apple will selectively

⏹️ ▶️ John hose certain ones of your files transparently in the background without you knowing and with no way for

⏹️ ▶️ John you to fix it. So this is a feature that I look at and say I’m never turning.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m terrified of this feature based on my past history of using iCloud drive and

⏹️ ▶️ John the complete undebug ability of it and the non flexibility of it. is something like Dropbox

⏹️ ▶️ John is focused. It’s a single folder. You can have selective sync. There are badges on all the icons through an official API

⏹️ ▶️ John that they support. I know when things are synced. I know when they’re not. I can, I can, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I have a web interface to see like it’s version of truth. Like all the tools available to Dropbox,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though they’re, you know, fidgety or whatever, don’t seem to be available in this. And historically speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple has not been as good and reliable as Dropbox and so the things about this. So this feature really scares me, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John since it looks so attractive to people who are novices and just like, Oh, yes, please take care of my storage for me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, if they turn that on and it just hoses everything, that’s going to be a bad experience.

⏹️ ▶️ John How are you even going to recover someone from that? I don’t know. This is maybe I shouldn’t be so pessimistic about this. Like implementation

⏹️ ▶️ John wise, it seems like it’s a good idea, but there are so many places that from user interface to like

⏹️ ▶️ John reliability to performance where it just seems terrifying to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, like, you know, like an interesting thought experiment I think would be, if Dropbox offered this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact same feature, would you enable it? Like OSY, not

⏹️ ▶️ John just in its Dropbox folder. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Would

⏹️ ▶️ John you enable it? I don’t think I’d enable it for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Dropbox. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think I would either. And Dropbox I trust way more than things like iCloud

⏹️ ▶️ John Drive. It seems like a good idea, but I think there are better solutions to this problem, which we’ll get to in a

⏹️ ▶️ John little bit. The tabs in Windows thing, that seems like they’re just scraping the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John of the barrel. Like, oh, we added tabs to most things. You know what? API that you get for free if you

⏹️ ▶️ John use NS document. It’s easy to implement and you can just mix Windows together with tabs. Lots of applications have tabs. It’s nice to have

⏹️ ▶️ John a unified interface. It’s a recognition that tabs are as common as buttons

⏹️ ▶️ John and sheets and text input fields and combo boxes and all the other controls they have. Instead of

⏹️ ▶️ John having to roll your own tabs, here’s a standard control for, you know, not tabs as in

⏹️ ▶️ John the old style one where you’d switch your different like what is it called like the segmented control

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco now doesn’t seem to look like tabs anymore. But those used to

⏹️ ▶️ John actually look like tabs back in the day. But web browsers have the, no, each tab is actually an entire window, and you can tear them out and

⏹️ ▶️ John combine them. It’s nice to see that be a system level feature. They’re kind of boring. They look like Safari tabs,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’m not sure Safari tabs is the best implementation of tabs, but it’s a nice idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I think you get it for free if you’re an NSDocuments subclass

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco or something like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I don’t know the details, but I think so. I mean, I think that’s great. As a user of OS X, I mean, I’m not really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Mac developer, but as a user of OS X, I think that’s going to be awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep picture in picture not a problem. I feel need solving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco but not a bad thing. I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John for people who use full screen It’s totally a problem And he’s solving his full screen is like I would like to be full screen That’s how I work I swipe

⏹️ ▶️ John on my pad from side to side But sometimes I also want to keep my eye on the game I wish they had more than one picture in picture so you could

⏹️ ▶️ John stack them up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course you would want more windows No, I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John You got a 5k iMac you can have four games like they should be able like tile them the four football games

⏹️ ▶️ John from the ESPN

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco app. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think it would be it’ll be nice because like so often I want to have like a video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going from usually it’s YouTube or we have some occasionally to Vimeo usually it’s YouTube so I’ll have this video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going and like I’ll want to move it to the side of the screen so I can do something else at the same time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or so I can watch another window and you have to have the you know if you want to do that now with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before picture-in-picture on the Mac you have to have the entire browser Chrome around that showing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhere and kind and move the window in such a way that you like, you know, you move half of it off screen. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of clunky now, so this will be nice for that too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I didn’t think about the full screen stuff. That’s a very good point. Well, let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see, what else do they do? The messages improvements, which we’ll talk about in a minute, comes to the Mac as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, that’s most, oh, Apple Pay for the web, which is kind of exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t know, I think that was most everything. The big, like, flagship feature seemed to be Siri, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is similarly solving a problem I don’t think I have, but that really deep contextual search

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does sound pretty interesting, and I am curious to try that.

⏹️ ▶️ John So.


⏹️ ▶️ John So even though they didn’t announce it at this segment, this is the part where we should talk about the new file system.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it is only available

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac right now. It was not announced in the keynote. I found out about it

⏹️ ▶️ John after walking outside of the keynote when everybody else found the updated WDD sessions to show

⏹️ ▶️ John the secret ones and session 701 was the one about the new file system and then everyone found the developer documentation online.

⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t even get, as far as I’m aware, a note in one of the little word clouds. And that’s mostly because

⏹️ ▶️ John even though there’s going to be sessions on this and there’s technical documentation and it was announced in the

⏹️ ▶️ John State of the Union, this is not a feature of any of the operating systems betas that they shipped

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s not going to be a feature of any of the operating systems that they ship in final except in experimental form.

⏹️ ▶️ John The new file system will be for 2017 because as we all know, 2017 is the year of the file system.

⏹️ ▶️ John But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they announced

⏹️ ▶️ John it now and they’re getting people working on it now. What the hell’s the name of it it’s got a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco name APFS

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s called a P a PFS the a stands for Apple the P stands full stands for pole

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess I don’t know P U

⏹️ ▶️ Casey L L

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know it’s like Apple like a it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John should be AFS but AFS

⏹️ ▶️ John is Andrew file system and IFS is probably also anyway it’s got a name

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s called a PFS it is only available on the Mac and you can do a limited number

⏹️ ▶️ John of things with it now you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco can so far it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be on all the platforms eventually.

⏹️ ▶️ John You can’t boot off of it now. It has all sorts of limitations, all of which I assume are because it’s not done yet.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so this is how they’re sort of testing the waters with it and letting people play with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, they’re also kind of like saving people from themselves here. It’s not bootable and you can’t time machine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it and stuff because they really don’t want you to be installing a beta file system on your main drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and with your only copy of your data. And you know people would do that if they didn’t have these restrictions.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and it has a lot of interesting features. Almost all the ones

⏹️ ▶️ John I would expect it to have more than more than I had hoped because I had heard things that made me think it wasn’t gonna have too

⏹️ ▶️ John much. First, it’s flash only, which we expected. Um, and that’s great because it means they can optimize it for that case.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, it has cloning of files, uh, which is you would think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just not just like hard links to files, but it’s not because they’re copy on rights. You can basically duplicate a file more or less instantaneously

⏹️ ▶️ John and they will diverge slowly. Part of that is the same underlying technology I’m assuming they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John using for snapshots, which means you can take a point in time snapshot of the entire file system. You can, I think, can clone

⏹️ ▶️ John entire file system, I would assume you can revert to a snapshot, which they said is great for classroom

⏹️ ▶️ John classrooms where they can just, you know, have the initial state and let the kids use it and revert. It’s also great for Apple stores.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m sure they’re all loving

⏹️ ▶️ John it where they can at the end of the day revert all the demo devices to their previous state. If you are a backup

⏹️ ▶️ John program having a point in time snapshot to work out, which is great. And you know the fact that doesn’t work with time machine, it’s because the

⏹️ ▶️ John new version of time machine is going to take advantage of all these features and be a million times better than it used to be. It supports

⏹️ ▶️ John extended attributes because it has to and this this Apple documentation will put a link in the show notes.

⏹️ ▶️ John It basically goes through like here’s why HFS plus sucks and not so many words and it goes through all the things like oh

⏹️ ▶️ John HFS plus could do things where your thing was inconsistent on disk and has no atomic operations and

⏹️ ▶️ John things wouldn’t be committed so if something happened at this point you think you corrupted they try to be nice about

⏹️ ▶️ John it but yeah and the session description for 701 is we’re gonna tell you why this file system is better than

⏹️ ▶️ John hfs plus which is shooting fish in a barrel but it’s a it’s better fast directory sizing

⏹️ ▶️ John you ever try to get the size of a big folder and it says calculating and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco calculating

⏹️ ▶️ John like they have a way to do that you know atomic operations limited atomic operations this

⏹️ ▶️ John is all great stuff out being able to make containers and put multiple volumes in the same container and having them all see

⏹️ ▶️ John that size. So like instead of partitioning, say you have 100 gigs, you can put three volumes on 100 gigs, and they all look like they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John 100 gigs. They’re not, there’s only 100 gigs of space, and they’re going to fight for it. But there’s no like, let me divide the 100 gig

⏹️ ▶️ John partition up into, you know, 5050, or 333333. It’s just that’s not how this file

⏹️ ▶️ John system works. It’s they could all share the space and then they will slowly accumulate into the space. It supports

⏹️ ▶️ John RAID one zero and just, you know, concatenated volumes, you know, J-B-O-D, where you just

⏹️ ▶️ John take a bunch of disks and make one larger volume out of it. The only real thing it’s missing,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t think it’s something they can’t add later, I hope, is any facility for data integrity

⏹️ ▶️ John at the file level to account for bit rot. So say you have a bunch of important files like your family photos,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you keep them around and you keep copying them from disk to disk, how do you know that bit flip errors aren’t slowly

⏹️ ▶️ John corrupting your files? The answer is for now at the file system level, you still don’t. But this seems like

⏹️ ▶️ John a thoroughly modern file system. And the fact that feature doesn’t exist now,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t mind too much because all the other things are doing it. It’s like they’re saying all the right things.

⏹️ ▶️ John Everything in this documentation says modern, sleek file system that’s going to enable UI features

⏹️ ▶️ John that are better. It will make time machine better, make backup apps better, will make it easier to roll back to known

⏹️ ▶️ John good states like so many nice friendly features can be built on top of this file system. This is what

⏹️ ▶️ John the world has been waiting for for a really long time. Still upset there’s no data integrity, but because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s so modern, I see no reason they can’t add that later for systems that can support the CPU

⏹️ ▶️ John overhead that that’s going to add.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as far as you can tell, so far so good. Two thumbs up?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes. No, I like it. I’m happy. The name is stupid. But you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ John name is stupid and no data integrity, which is, again, it’s not a small thing. Like when I’ve talked about it in the past, data integrity is like one of

⏹️ ▶️ John the biggest reasons I want a new file system. But all the other reasons are still super important. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just so great to see Apple finally moving on. And like Margo said, this is all platforms

⏹️ ▶️ John from the watch all the way up to the Mac Pro that they never update. It’s the whole

⏹️ ▶️ John line. They made a file system for the future that spans their entire product line, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly what you could hope for. And this is just the first version. Look at all the crap they added to HFS Plus in

⏹️ ▶️ John their old documentation. Like, we don’t have… On HFS Plus, extended attributes were tacked on. Wasn’t that crappy?

⏹️ ▶️ John here it’s not tacked on we thought of it from the beginning it’s a super important feature good job guys so

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m I am excited I’m happy I am optimistic I am ready for 2017

⏹️ ▶️ Casey real-time follow-up by the way APFS is optimized for flash slash SSD storage and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can be used with with traditional hard disk drives

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh that’s interesting that’s I’m kind of surprised that they can even oh

⏹️ ▶️ John they just that because you can make like in the current command-line tools you can make like an image like

⏹️ ▶️ John a volume container image like a disk image of it I’m I’m assuming people screw with it. One

⏹️ ▶️ John thing we didn’t touch on is one of the current limitations is case sensitive only. I’m not quite sure what they’ll do there because

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of the Unicode normalization and case folding comparison crap in HFS plus is a

⏹️ ▶️ John reason a lot of people hate it because it’s complicated and doesn’t do what people expect.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s kind of it’s not non deterministic, but it’s it’s complicated to know what exactly it’s going to do in terms of this is like

⏹️ ▶️ John when you name files. What what is the file name? And HFS plus has really complicated

⏹️ ▶️ John rules about what a file name is case sensitive or insensitive. This is case sensitive only for now.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m assuming they will implement case insensitivity, but it’s still I think an open question. Will they implement case insensitivity

⏹️ ▶️ John in the same weird way that it’s implemented in H of S plus and by the way, H of S plus on IOS is has always

⏹️ ▶️ John been case sensitive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think so for and probably for performance and simplicity reasons.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, like I mean, no one sees the file system on the phone, so it’s fine. But case sensitive is simpler to implement.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if they do away with the file name normalization stuff will put some shown out links for Unicode normalization,

⏹️ ▶️ John because we don’t have time to explain it now. But if they either do away with that and just make it a giant bag of bytes and leave it up to the OS,

⏹️ ▶️ John that would be one easy enough solution. Or if they come up with a more streamlined, modern way

⏹️ ▶️ John to do their case folding for the case insensitive things and handle that. I don’t know, I’m not quite sure what they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John do, but a lot of the scary limitations are just because this isn’t done yet. And this is only sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John a toy for people to play with on the Mac, but it will be rolling out everywhere next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I have one other important question. So I do not have a ticket to WBDC. I’m going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to layers. I was sitting in my hotel room streaming both the keynote and the State of the Union with a handful of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other people. And for the State of the Union, it happened that almost everyone in the room was a developer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and for the State of the Union, they said, okay, it’s time to talk about the new file system. And literally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everyone in the room of which there were like six of us, all of them verbally at the same moment said, ding.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As I’m sitting there watching the talk, people are on Twitter saying, oh my god, there was a ding.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I thought,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John oh, that’s funny, ha ha. They heard you in your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey room. Right, and I thought, that’s funny, ha ha. And then I realized, no, no, no, these people are not being funny. There

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was a ding. Is that true? Was there a ding in the room?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There was a ding in the room.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did it come from the PA?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Interesting, but there was a ding.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There was a ding in the room.

⏹️ ▶️ John Next up, let’s talk about file systems.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s magnificent and I am very impressed. So I just want to put that out there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that someone had the wherewithal to either simulate or bring

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an actual bell with which to ding when it was time to talk about the file system. Did the person

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on stage hear it? Could you tell?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John No.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s going to be cut out of the video, first of all. And second of all, it’s a big place. I think the only people who heard it were the people who were

⏹️ ▶️ John in the proximity of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ding. I don’t know some people on Twitter were saying they were like second row or something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John well

⏹️ ▶️ John let’s put it this way the reaction in the room shows that some people knew what the thing was about other people didn’t know and didn’t care

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well but that’s fair but did you notice did the person the person speaking at the time did they even notice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that this was

⏹️ ▶️ John happening I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so anyway I just want

⏹️ ▶️ John to say for the record I did not make the ding well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey God knows I didn’t because I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco all right well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody spent eight dollars very well to make that ding

⏹️ ▶️ Casey approximately

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah we assume I’m just saying I would never never interrupt or disrupt a live presentation by Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John in that way. No, of course not. You

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey wouldn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco not do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. Anything else on Mac OS? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John we forgot one more on Mac OS. It doesn’t support my Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John John has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a new Mac Pro to run the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John file system.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John They stopped supporting my Mac. And I wondered why and asked Marco and he came up with what I think is the actual answer

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty much on the spot. Why won’t they support the 2008 Mac Pro, which is my model? They support the 2009 Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John their 64-bit x86 machines. They’re plenty fast. It’s not like my machine is too slow to run Mac OS

⏹️ ▶️ John Sierra What’s the deal? Why is my Mac not supported? and the answer Marco came up with and then until

⏹️ ▶️ John I hear someone say otherwise sounds like the answer is My CPU doesn’t have the

⏹️ ▶️ John Intel like decryption focused instructions. I forget what the call you said AVX or something

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know the I forgot it’s like like the hardware AES Acceleration and stuff like that like the Intel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco added instructions to the CPUs somewhere around that time And I think you fall on the wrong side of that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right

⏹️ ▶️ John and so a lot of the arm, you know, the arm system on a chips have these instructions The modern

⏹️ ▶️ John x86 CPUs have these instructions encryption by the way to mention this for the

⏹️ ▶️ John New Apple file system encryption is built in both full volume encryption and also per file encryption

⏹️ ▶️ John like iOS users But this is built into the file system instead of built on top of it Like you can totally tell this is a file system

⏹️ ▶️ John made for Apple’s devices because these are exactly the features they need that they previously implement on top of the filesystem. Now they’re built

⏹️ ▶️ John into it. You can run it without encryption, not like it requires encryption. But for the sake of simplicity of implementation,

⏹️ ▶️ John they basically said, we’re not going to put like conditional code and have a

⏹️ ▶️ John have a code path that doesn’t use. We’re not going to like disable encryption on the 2008 max.

⏹️ ▶️ John And we’re not going to say if you do the encryption, we’ll do a second code path that doesn’t use those instructions. They said fine, just not supported. I mean, it’s an eight year

⏹️ ▶️ John old computer at this point. Totally understandable. Luckily, I have a 2009 Mac Pro at work, so I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be okay there and I’ll be able to use it. But yeah, they stopped supporting my Mac with the current version

⏹️ ▶️ John of the Mac operating system. So my 2008 Mac Pro was able to run every version

⏹️ ▶️ John of Mac OS 10 and OS 10 more or less, but not well, I guess not every

⏹️ ▶️ John version because 10.0 didn’t have an x86 version.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I don’t think you could run any of them until what 10.4?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John until the x86 transition. Anyway, the whole point is my Mac is not supported and they did not release a new Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John for me to buy. So we’ll keep watching on that front.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh God, I don’t even want to think about.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So what are you going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do like, you know, this fall when this becomes the new version, are you just never going to have the new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John version of OSX? I’m going to

⏹️ ▶️ John install it at work and I’m not going to install it at home and we’ll see how long that remains tenable. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean by that point they could have announced a new Mac Pro that I order. I don’t know, but it’s not an issue that I have to

⏹️ ▶️ John deal with for a couple months yet. I love that this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like this is this is like the the roller coaster of Syracuse keynotes. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amazing file system news like you know no one expected a new file system to ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen just like you know when Swift came out it’s like Swift. I did. Okay yeah but no one else so like you know you’ve been waiting for this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like forever it finally happened but also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John they’re going to stop supporting my Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also they’re going to force you to finally upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ John your Mac Pro. But that’s not bad news that that’s good news all they got to do was making new Macs. Like, that’s fine. Like, there,

⏹️ ▶️ John again, I don’t think there’s, it’s a perfectly valid decision to not support an eight-year-old’s computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, it’s fine. I’m not upset about that at all. It will be handled.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it’s kind of amazing it made it this far.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, leaving aside hardware gripes, what’s the next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bit of low-hanging fruit? The file system has been conquered, Copeland’s been conquered, or preventing Copeland 2010 with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Swift has been conquered. What’s the next bit of low-hanging fruit that you’re really, really waiting for? I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can fix the Finder. I mean…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John What’s wrong with Finder?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, no! Don’t get upstarted! Oh, come on! You don’t know what you’re saying!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John The Finder is

⏹️ ▶️ John the one I kind of gave up on because it becomes less and less relevant to fix it. So if they can make it irrelevant,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine. There are still many things that I wish they could fix about it. That’s a whole other show.

⏹️ ▶️ John We can talk about it some other That’s I mean that’s the big one from way back when but if I have

⏹️ ▶️ John a force to come up with an entirely new list like you know I could still gripe complain about services

⏹️ ▶️ John forever like I’m don’t worry I will not run out of things to complain about it’ll be fine

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey oh no I know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know you won’t run out of things to complain about but I am curious to hear what your top four complaints are these days

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but anyway

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iOS 10

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey iOS 10, it’s a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It’s iOS X, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, my bad, iOS X. That’s right. It’s a thing, it looks good. It actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looks different.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, you had talked about this earlier.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they’ve refreshed the design like a half step.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, that’s well put.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not like a total redesign of the system, but it’s like a.5 of the iOS 7 style design, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like they they have made many of the fonts a little bit heavier weight they’ve introduced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a new like super heavy bold For San Francisco that’s in use in the news app and in music

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To really like massively draw attention to headlines, which I don’t think I like, but we’ll see what we’ll see in use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you know overall like all around the system There’s like you know little improvements to the text to make it a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thicker a little bit heavy a little bit more bold So it makes it easier to read for a lot of people moving on from text though So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big change is they’ve introduced buttons that look like buttons, which is awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John And Windows look like Windows,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like the little widgets. Yeah, everything’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now like these little rounded window-like things, which I like this new style a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like this design. I like that Apple’s moving it forward. I think this will prove to be more usable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the pure iOS 7 looks, just because things are starting to have shapes again. And text

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is starting to become more legible. And this is all good stuff. So I think, you know, having not actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used the beta yet, we’ll see how this is in practice, but tentatively, I give the design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco improvements whatever thumbs up that I can give.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John the lock screen changes in particular, like it’s Apple finally not giving up on, but thinking better

⏹️ ▶️ John of like their attempt. They always wanted to say, you can have an arbitrary image and we will display text on top of it in a minimal

⏹️ ▶️ John way that remains remediable. It’s really hard to do that without deciding, having an algorithm

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like their iTunes like album are thinking like should we darken the background and use light text should we lighten the background and use dark text

⏹️ ▶️ John and what about they love stuff showing through and like if it was all about usability you would say use an opaque

⏹️ ▶️ John light background with dark text on top of it that’s easy to read like but they don’t want to do that so they’re creeping up on it so they said no we

⏹️ ▶️ John won’t we’re not even trying to mess with your background anymore we’re gonna put these white essentially windows on top of it and they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John opaque white you can still see stuff through them with the whole vibrancy like but it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just more readable it’s clear what the units are it’s clear where they begin and end. The text

⏹️ ▶️ John on them is easier to read because it is dark text on a light background. Always. It doesn’t depend on the thing that’s behind it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And those are all good decisions, especially if they’re going to add functionality to that screen, which they are

⏹️ ▶️ John to make it a more straightforward UI and to give up on the dream of it being like this

⏹️ ▶️ John beautiful text that is laced onto your image, like minimally as if it’s just been

⏹️ ▶️ John sprinkled there with stardust. And in practice, what that translates to is hard to read. Can’t tell what the

⏹️ ▶️ John hell is going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on. Yeah. And the lock screen now has widgets on it. And they actually literally use the word widgets, which I thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was a little surprising.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s interesting. What they basically did was they took what used to be your Today View widget

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or your Notification Center widget, whatever you call those things, and they’re now kind of sticking those in more places, which like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I never thought it was worth Overcast having a Today View widget because…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Because no one’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going into their Today

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco View to

⏹️ ▶️ John find out what’s up with Overcast today.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, exactly. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not… It doesn’t… It didn’t seem like it was that kind of app. I never use Today Widgets,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I don’t look at my Today View. But now they’re putting those now on the lock screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re putting those on 3D Touch when you preview an app. So now this is going to give way more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps a big reason to have Notification Center Widget, to have these widgets. Now it’s no longer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Notification Center Widget,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no longer Today View, now it’s just your app’s widget. And they can put those in more places. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as both a developer and a user, I’m looking forward to this, this sounds

⏹️ ▶️ John great. They did a lot of stuff with the lock screen make it so that you don’t accidentally dismiss it with the touch thing. I thought I saw someone

⏹️ ▶️ John tweet that maybe this is just the beta but instead of just placing your thumb

⏹️ ▶️ John over the touch ID to like to unlock it that you actually have to press the button in you can’t just

⏹️ ▶️ John tap the touch ID to get through that screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah I believe yeah I believe that was Ryan Jones who said that I believe that’s correct from what everyone else it was kind of it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of unclear as to like you know what sequence of buttons you have to hit or not hit to do that but that’s roughly correct.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right and the whole thing where you don’t touch anybody just raise it up the table and it will show you the lock screen because they want you to do more

⏹️ ▶️ John in the lock screen. There’s going to be more information there. Hopefully you can customize it more. Uh, and so they want

⏹️ ▶️ John a way to get to that without you accidentally unlocking it. It’s kind of weird that they have like designed out

⏹️ ▶️ John all the delays, which are basically bad, but that people had, you know, those delays had become part of the UI

⏹️ ▶️ John for people who would be dealing with their phones and they don’t want to put the delays back in because unlocking your phone

⏹️ ▶️ John real fast when you want to pick it up and actually use it as a great feature, but they still wanted to find a way to let you use

⏹️ ▶️ John your lock screen. So hopefully we’ll be able to develop new habits and hopefully this sort of raise feature and

⏹️ ▶️ John pressing the button will work itself out into a situation where you can get into your phone as

⏹️ ▶️ John fast as possible, but are never frustrated by accidentally getting into your phone when really you wanted to work with your new

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy lock screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And this solves this raise to view or raise to wake, I think they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called it. It solves a problem that I actually don’t have because I am really good at hitting the side button in order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see my notifications, but I am the only person or one of the only people I know that doesn’t get annoyed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by the way the new Touch ID works. And so this is clearly solving a problem for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the overwhelming majority of people where, like you said, they mash down on the home button, suddenly they’re right through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the lock screen and they didn’t get to see any of the notifications that they wanted to see. And I do that occasionally, but generally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking, I’m pretty good at avoiding it. What was interesting though, and as a potential security issue,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is you could interact with these widgets on the lock screen pretty, pretty interestingly, like you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could respond to a text message, for example, right on the lock screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re letting someone take your locked phone and respond as if they’re you, like, I’m not quite sure how

⏹️ ▶️ John this all works

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey out in practice. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it did not, this, what I’m about to describe was clearly not shown during the demo, but what I would suspect

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is if you ever have your phone and it’s locked and you swipe up and go to the camera, take a picture, and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you want to go to your old pictures that you had taken previously in order to do, or to send one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey In order to do that, it has like an interstitial, if you will, saying, okay, enter your passcode or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco touch ID or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in order to perform an action like that. Anything that’s destructive or that involves something leaving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the phone. I would guess that the same sort of thing would happen here, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey without question, that is not what they showed during the demo. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the same thing, speaking of the widgets, like of doing more stuff from the lock screen, the same kind of situation

⏹️ ▶️ John present a problem presents itself there is like to make the lock screen more useful. You want people

⏹️ ▶️ John to be able to do more things, but to do more things to show more information that shouldn’t be on the lock screen. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco to

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine you had these rich widgets that could show you all sorts of contextual information about your day and things that have happened

⏹️ ▶️ John to different applications. Do you want anyone to be able to see that when they raise your phone? Like that’s why on the Mac, a lot of the sort of notification

⏹️ ▶️ John center stuff says, Hey, should this show on the lock screen or should it not? I’m sure the same things will be on Ios,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s it’s a type of granularity. Even I have trouble deciding, like going through each individual app and saying, Do I want this

⏹️ ▶️ John show on lock screen? It’s kind of useful. But then what if someone comes by my Mac and sees a message from my wife that’s like floating in a corner in

⏹️ ▶️ John a box that I don’t want them to say, you know, I don’t know. It’s it’s difficult privacy wise. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I think what Apple is creeping up on slowly, slowly, slowly is a screen

⏹️ ▶️ John on your phone that is not springboard that is not the big grid of icons that has a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of information that you can customize that third party apps can contribute to. I don’t think the locks are in is that

⏹️ ▶️ John screen. I think that’s another screen Android users from telling me exactly what screen is like. Why don’t you have real widgets that don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have to be the full width of the thing that you can customize and have sort of like a like a dashboard, if you will, for the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John that that you customize to contain all this information and that’s not really the lock screen. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they’ll they’ll arrive at that eventually, but they’re not there yet. And right now they’re just making the lock screen better than it was, which

⏹️ ▶️ John I think is good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, a couple other quick hits and then then there’s some other big ones. Maps looks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey improved. The turn by the turn by turn looked a lot nicer to me. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey traffic, instead of doing little dots, it’s an actual highlight, which looked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John better.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you can zoom out without fighting with your goddamn phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey just like squeezing. How many times I fought with the phone with

⏹️ ▶️ John like seven fingers on the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey screen, stay zoomed out so I can see where the, oh no. It’s the worst, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely agree with you. They also did a very cool thing, which I think Waze has already

⏹️ ▶️ Casey done for years, but if you’re about to make a turn, they’ll zoom way, way, way

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in, and if you’re not gonna make a turn for a while, little Zoom way out, which I really, really liked. Yeah, that’s nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They also had some contextual stuff. A lot of this, a lot of today’s announcements were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about trying to invert context for many of the operations you’re doing. And that’s not just limited to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Maps. And that actually brings me nicely to Siri improvements. They touted a lot of different

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Siri improvements, including a Siri API. And one of the things that I thought was most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey interesting about the Siri API was that they said without saying that this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is all natural language. And kind of implied that, unlike Alexa, which I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not used to be completely fair, but I’ve understood to be, and I think one of you guys actually said it, to be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very much like a command line. Yeah, I said that. Exactly, so it’s not, what Siri is, is not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a command line. Siri is not just a command line where you have to do subject, verb, action, or whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco case may be.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s more flexible in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey the syntax that it accepts.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, and actually in the State of the Union, when they went through the nuts and bolts how that works from a developer perspective,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of the things they said in so many words was, hey, listen, this could happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This same command that you’re trying to perform could be verbalized in one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of six different ways, and that’s on us to figure out and to extract what the actual—they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had the different components of a Siri command. I forget what they are offhand, but whatever those components are, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on us, on Apple, to extract what those particular like the verb, the subject, the action, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are and we will give that to you developers. So that means it’s on Apple to parse out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how exactly it is the user structures that sentence, which assuming it works

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is how I think it should work. But that’s a big assumption. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what the intent system is about. And that’s why it’s limited to certain kinds of applications, I would imagine is because Siri

⏹️ ▶️ John determines the intent of like, what is this person trying to do, and then creates

⏹️ ▶️ John a structured message message for that intended action. So if the intended action is some kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of messaging, that’s the one they showed, like it’s like, there’s a recipient, there’s the content of the message, and maybe a few other

⏹️ ▶️ John bits, and it gives the application that structured information, the application has no idea what you said,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even know who you can get that information from the application. But because it’s an application that says I handle, you know, if

⏹️ ▶️ John someone if the intent is to message somebody, that’s the thing that I can do. So Siri will figure

⏹️ ▶️ John out, you’re trying to send a message, you’re trying to send it to this person, you’re trying to send it with this app, and then we’ll hand

⏹️ ▶️ John off to the app, here is the information, here’s here’s the user’s intent, they want they wanted to talk to you, WeChat

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever, they wanted to send it to this person. And here’s the message. And that’s why you have to have structured like

⏹️ ▶️ John what can’t be for all apps, like, oh, I just want to make an app. And if someone says this, I want my app to do that. No, it has to be one of the intents

⏹️ ▶️ John that they support. I don’t know how many different intents they support. But it’s a limited set of like, it’s like, five or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey six. Yeah, so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right here. So they announced that the following are supported in SiriKit, messaging apps,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey VoIP calling, payments, ride booking, photo search, and workouts. And that’s it. Only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey those

⏹️ ▶️ John six. And each one of those things has a structure of the message that the application has to be ready to handle. And Siri

⏹️ ▶️ John handles the, I’ll figure out what they said a bunch of crap and what they mean is, I want you application to

⏹️ ▶️ John do this thing. And it’s one of the short lists of supported things, which is, it’s limiting because

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t say, oh, I had a game and I want people to say, I want, you know, please foodle

⏹️ ▶️ John the blah blah blah blah blah

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

⏹️ ▶️ John blah blah blah blah blah blah blah on at a game. No, but even something within the world of your app, like change

⏹️ ▶️ John armor, put on the good armor on character, whatever. Just

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco make some Destiny. We wouldn’t understand it. I know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, if you wanted to, that’s not going to have integration with Destiny. But yeah, imagine something that only made sense

⏹️ ▶️ John in the realm of your game. You can’t support that because in the Siri API, you have

⏹️ ▶️ John no facility to say what you want. I want people to say this, and I want this to happen. That’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John how it works at all. So this system is much more flexible, but also more limited. And it allows people to add Siri

⏹️ ▶️ John support without knowing anything about how Siri works or caring how it works, or even caring that they

⏹️ ▶️ John use Siri because an intent can be expressed by anything. An intent could be expressed by hand signal

⏹️ ▶️ John by sending an email to yourself, but putting text messages in by waving your arm like your application has

⏹️ ▶️ John no idea how the intent was expressed by the user. It is totally divorced from it, which I think is super smart.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s also going to mean that the rollout of Siri is going to be limited. And I think it’s fine for it to be limited, especially since the classes they

⏹️ ▶️ John chose are good common classes of applications. I’m sure this will

⏹️ ▶️ John expand outward, just like extension points have expanded outward for the places you can extend on iOS and on

⏹️ ▶️ John the Mac. But I think it’s a very clever API, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it is better than, let’s just do the simplest thing, which you say a bunch of stuff, and you identify an application, and

⏹️ ▶️ John then we translate it to text and hand it off to your app, because that would have been a disaster.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, couldn’t agree more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, the system as it stands now, I have kind of mixed feelings about it, because they didn’t basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give me anything I could use for overcast because they didn’t create or release one of these intent structures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is play media item or control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John media playback in this

⏹️ ▶️ John app. A media intent is a gimme though. That’s something I feel like they will do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it depends on why it’s not there now. If it’s not there now because they just didn’t get to it, sure. If it isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there now because maybe they wanted to protect Apple Music,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I hope that’s not the reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is possible that’s the reason. I hope that isn’t it. And knowing Apple, that probably isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No, I mean, they would want

⏹️ ▶️ John to control. Like if that was the case, you’d be able to talk to Siri to control

⏹️ ▶️ John all media playing in any of the native media controllers, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess. But yeah, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John We’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey see. We’ll see. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because right now, you can say, play this artist’s name, and it just plays it in Apple Music. And that’s one of the big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons why people choose Apple Music

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John over its competitors. But I’m thinking

⏹️ ▶️ John like video services. Like they’re not competing with YouTube at this point. But there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey still no sort of competition.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, I mean, show me the

⏹️ ▶️ John latest whatever video on the whatever channel on YouTube.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and they have that on Apple TV. Like they did add that to Apple TV, Apple TV, Siri, where now you can, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco YouTube is part of Apple TV’s universal search,

⏹️ ▶️ John but not an iOS and YouTube is on there as well. Anyway, hopefully it’s not a political reason, but technologically

⏹️ ▶️ John speaking, a media media playback intent or even like something. I don’t know. Did they have like an

⏹️ ▶️ John email and I guess maybe that falls into the category of message. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think it’s messy. I mean, emails only for old people like us. It’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like kids are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, anyway, like this is promising. Siri finally has an API. It seems like a reasonable good API that they

⏹️ ▶️ John expand out to new intents. And by adding new intents, I don’t think there’s any particular complexity they add.

⏹️ ▶️ John Intents address categories, not individual apps. So they didn’t pick select partners. Any intent that they add, if they make a media playback

⏹️ ▶️ John intent, they’re not making like an Overcast intent or a YouTube intent. They’re going to make one that encompasses

⏹️ ▶️ John huge numbers of applications, just like they have with the intents they have on now. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that the possible number of useful intents in the world is like low hundreds, you know, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And that will cover thousands upon thousands upon thousands of apps.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, overall, I’m very happy with how they implemented this API.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a very smart way to do it. It is, as you mentioned earlier, like, you know, because it kind of abstracts away dealing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the language and some of the, like, some of the details of how the person structures their statement,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it abstracts all that away for the developers. So like, it’s really easy to do things like implement messaging app, because you don’t need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to, like, you know, If you say, send a message to John that I will be late.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if it’s like, does the app need to know that I said that before I will be late? Or does it just get,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll be late? And it abstracts all that away. It deals with all that for you. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think you can blame all the stupid bugs. I’m like, well, I don’t have a choice. I get this, the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco intent, send me this. It thinks the

⏹️ ▶️ John message is this. And if it includes that, we all just complain about Siri some more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because that abstracts away dealing with so many language issues and different languages

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and different constructs. So it’s great for the developers that it supports, and I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope in the future it supports more developers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I completely agree with everything you just said. And I want to double down on what you said a second ago, which is it supports like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 30-some languages or something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that? Yeah, something like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. Which is quite a bit different than most of the voice-enabled stuff. There are certainly Amazons,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if not Googles. There were a couple of other things that were mentioned that I’d like to try to breeze through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty quickly, because there was another big section in the iOS stuff. The quick stuff I’d like to breeze through is Apple Music

⏹️ ▶️ Casey got a refresh. This was when Bozeman st. John came up. I may have pronounced that wrong,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but she was awesome She was there was one small part where she was trying to get a bunch of like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely nerdy developers to try to Sing or rap

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John rappers to like

⏹️ ▶️ John that was part of the joke though in the end because like it was it was a long setup For realizing this is not happening,

⏹️ ▶️ John right and you guys need to practice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it was other than that which got a little bit cringeworthy I thought she did an an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unbelievable job and to my recollection the best first time performance of anyone I’ve ever seen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on an Apple stage.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey maybe.

⏹️ ▶️ John One of my few tweets during the thing was like, being cooler than Eddie Cue is admittedly a low bar, but

⏹️ ▶️ John she achieved it handily.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, very much so.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because really, I mean, it’s a tough call. You want someone to be up there to show enthusiasm for music

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s hard to do that demo all the time. As someone snarkily tweeted, once again Apple shows us how to enjoy

⏹️ ▶️ John music. We all understand how to enjoy it, but really if you’re going to do an Apple music demo, you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John really demo it as like a series of screens and stuff. Like the whole point of the thing is the music. And even though the message of

⏹️ ▶️ John this one was like, you can find your stuff more easily or whatever, there’s always going to be a part where they show enthusiasm for music. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you need a presenter up there who is clearly enthusiastic about it. And bottom line is you have to have someone who is relatable.

⏹️ ▶️ John And even though a lot of us are old in the audience, like we can’t relate to

⏹️ ▶️ John Eddie Q getting down. And I don’t blame, it’s not his fault. Like, you know, a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John everyone gets

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco old man everyone everyone becomes

⏹️ ▶️ John uncool or uncooler than they were before and it was just a silly choice to have him up there doing that

⏹️ ▶️ John bring someone else who is better at this than you and who is more relatable and they did hallelujah

⏹️ ▶️ John and it was better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I mean like it’s still a really tough gig because like that audience is and that setting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really not conducive to like we’re gonna talk cool about music and we’re gonna to get all everyone all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco excited about our cool music like that you know you can’t do that in that room

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John no matter how cool you are

⏹️ ▶️ John you can do it and by being funny like Craig killed it once again yeah right like you have to be relatable

⏹️ ▶️ John to that audience but you can do it like you can do it through humor

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you can do it’s ever getting humor

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I actually think that she was a different kind of funny like again that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey inch worthy part aside I thought she was a different kind of funny and arguably more funny than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyone else on stage and thing that was so striking to me was that she was a different kind of funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Instead of the dad jokes that have been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John on Apple. That’s all you can do if you’re a dad. Agree, agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is the entirety of your repertoire. But in a way that I’ve never seen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an Apple keynote be funny, her portion of the keynote was a different kind of funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And even as not a, or even as a fellow white

⏹️ ▶️ Casey man, like most of the people that were always on the Apple keynote stages, I really enjoyed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this different kind of funny. I thought it made for a better keynote, having this different kind of voice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I really thought she did an unbelievably good

⏹️ ▶️ John job. Yeah. And as always, the trick to being a good presenter is you have to be comfortable with yourself. And she was. And it makes you,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, even if your presentation doesn’t go that well, if you’re comfortable with yourself and you roll with it, that makes the audience

⏹️ ▶️ John more comfortable. And if you can express genuine enthusiasm for the new thing that you’re showing. And like

⏹️ ▶️ John as for Apple Music itself, they’re trying to make it nicer to use by making it easier

⏹️ ▶️ John to find the stuff that you actually care about and addressing the idea of like, hey, I get on a plane and I have no idea what the heck is on

⏹️ ▶️ John my phone. Right. So they address that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey directly

⏹️ ▶️ John and said, oh, now we have a special view. Like I feel like they’re addressing it once again, addressing user needs

⏹️ ▶️ John that I feel like they should have known a year ago but didn’t. Now they’ve discovered them.

⏹️ ▶️ John They rearrange things a little bit. They’ve have added a limited amount of features. Is that enough

⏹️ ▶️ John to make Apple Music better? Is it still going to fight with people’s metadata and give you bad versions of

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff and do all that? I don’t know. I hope not. But Apple Music, I still feel like that’s the albatross

⏹️ ▶️ John around Apple Music’s neck. For the people who should be the biggest fans of Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John Music, music lovers who have huge music collections, Apple Music, I still think, feels like the enemy because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s going to screw with your music in ways that you don’t understand. And It’s like a giant beast to

⏹️ ▶️ John wrangle and you say no thanks as opposed to say iTunes match, which had the potential to be just as bad, but was not

⏹️ ▶️ John just as bad that it would mess with your music in fairly predictable ways. And the upside

⏹️ ▶️ John was pretty big. Like so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I still use iTunes match and still love it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, if they if they cancel iTunes match, that would be terrible because I don’t want to use, you know, like we want

⏹️ ▶️ John like photos we want we want the the photo style refresh. We’re still waiting for the photo styles refresh and music. I’m supposed to

⏹️ ▶️ John be it, but it’s a bad job. We want all our music everywhere and we want to control it, and we don’t want Apple screwing

⏹️ ▶️ John with it and messing it up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John So that’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perfect segue to the other thing I wanted to very briefly touch on, which is photos. And basically, it was,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, we’re doing Google Photos, but we’re doing it on device. With

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no mention of Google anywhere, but that’s expected.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I mean, that’s basically what I saw. And what I saw looked to me like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was taking all of the best bits of Google Photos, like arbitrarily searching for Handbrake

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or Controller. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John they didn’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John that demo. They didn’t do the, like they said, hey, we’ll notice that there’s water and there’s animal. They didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John pull up a search screen and say horses. Like I continue to think that Google will do this better.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Obviously I’m gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John do the controller test, and by the way, update on, we didn’t have any follow up in this episode, but a small amount of follow up.

⏹️ ▶️ John Once I uploaded all of my photos to Google Photo and I typed

⏹️ ▶️ John controller, guess what it found? Exactly the controller pictures that it had found before and also the

⏹️ ▶️ John ones that they just hadn’t been uploaded yet. So Google Photos totally aced the controller test. It found all

⏹️ ▶️ John my controller pictures. And so that’s going to be my first test. All my photos are already uploaded

⏹️ ▶️ John to Apple’s Photos in the Cloud thing. And when this feature rolls out, as I assume it will on the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John as well, I’m going to type controller. And I can almost guarantee that it will not find it. So it’s just a question

⏹️ ▶️ John of how much better is Google with this than Apple. There was no demo. We have no way to judge. The fact that Apple is doing

⏹️ ▶️ John this at all is great. Maybe someday they can get family photo libraries. By the way, I was heartened

⏹️ ▶️ John by that. Speaking of family photo libraries, there is new sharing features in Cloud Kit that allows collaboration

⏹️ ▶️ John on notes and everything. I know something you can use this feature for. You can have a single photos library

⏹️ ▶️ John for an entire family and share it among them so everyone’s photo is going to one big pool. That

⏹️ ▶️ John was not announced. Maybe not this year or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe that’s a fall event feature or maybe that’s the next year. Yeah, I mean, it could be.

⏹️ ▶️ John It scares me a little bit, too. I’ll see how well it works in notes. But anyway, the photos features, like Casey said, it’s like we’re We’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ John try to do things that Google Photos did. We’re going to have the privacy angle and that we’re not going to do it server side. We’re going to do it client side.

⏹️ ▶️ John How are we going to do a client side without hosing your battery? Presumably they didn’t say this. I feel like they should have. Oh, don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John worry. We won’t destroy your battery. We will do it when it’s plugged in at night and we won’t start doing it until it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John been plugged in for a certain period of time. We won’t start doing it until you’re above 80%. Like that is a suit. I assume

⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re doing because I can tell you from seeing face recognition, bring down many a Mac. I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco do not want

⏹️ ▶️ John face recognition running on my giant 70,000 photo library. just the bandwidth to download the originals,

⏹️ ▶️ John do the recognition and chuck them out of storage again is just, you know, so I assume it will do this when it’s plugged in. They’re doing it on

⏹️ ▶️ John device instead of in the cloud because Apple’s bad at cloud and because they love privacy. I hope they do a good job.

⏹️ ▶️ John They didn’t demo anything to let me know they were going to do a good job, but good for Apple for,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, playing catch up once again. Fingers crossed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, the other big thing on iOS 10, to me anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was messages. And some of this made me feel like the old man I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I think the entire thing shows that all of us, including most of the people in that room,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are too old to understand why anybody would want to use these things. I totally

⏹️ ▶️ John understand. Like, I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John it amazes me that iMessage has been so boring for so long in light of every single

⏹️ ▶️ John other messaging application, having all these features, having stickers

⏹️ ▶️ John and like animations and Snapchat child features, annotations. Apple had the tech, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John like making a picture and scribbling over it. They have all the pieces there. This is once again catch up where Apple finally

⏹️ ▶️ John realized, hey, messages applications let you type text and emoji back and forth to each other are super

⏹️ ▶️ John boring. tons of people use other ones that have all sorts of features like stickers

⏹️ ▶️ John and weird animations and like and now they’re doing all that which is great again it is playing catch

⏹️ ▶️ John up but it amazes me that they spent so they know it’s the most used application on their platform they spent so long

⏹️ ▶️ John not even being able to send the messages in the right order and have them deliver in all devices they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John mention anything about this and like the proximity thing so now if I have seven devices on my desk will it not make all them

⏹️ ▶️ John ring at the same time because it knows I’m there

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco with my watch

⏹️ ▶️ John like they didn’t mention any of that like messages has been so far behind everybody for so long and they

⏹️ ▶️ John caught they didn’t catch up entirely but a lot of the features they put out is like all those things everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John else is doing we are finally doing them as well it would be nice if they were adding these features after

⏹️ ▶️ John making every other part of messages the boring part exact you know rock solid and stable

⏹️ ▶️ John and like not annoying and presence notification and messages being on all devices

⏹️ ▶️ John in all times and working out all the privacy things but they’re not. They’re going ahead with

⏹️ ▶️ John these things. And I think this is just the price of entry. This is not like a radical feature. It’s like Apple has woken up

⏹️ ▶️ John and realized if you have a message application, you need to support these things. And your message conversations

⏹️ ▶️ John will be as annoying as the people you are as exciting, let’s say,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the people you message with.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John was looking right at me when he said that. Fyi. No, a lot of this looks really good to me. The emoji fire,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever they called it, where you type text and then it it will, I think, yellow highlight and underline

⏹️ ▶️ Casey individual words

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give you not only the option of converting that word, say, pizza, to emoji, but if you have something like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, girl, then if you tap girl, it’ll give you several contextually relevant,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hopefully, options that you can convert the word girl into a different emoji.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like that is not the way people use emoji a lot of the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s not. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s forcing a particular style. And they said in the presentation that people will finish sentence and want

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of an emoji capper. Like that’s how people a lot of people use emoji is sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of like to express something after you’ve written the text going back into the text and replacing the nouns with emoji.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, people do that sometimes. But it’s not as common in my experience as or

⏹️ ▶️ John at least you’d want to in addition to have a thing at the end and what I want to see is more like slacks autocomplete where you enter emoji autocomplete

⏹️ ▶️ John mode. You want to find this that right emoji capper. That’s what they said in the demo, but you didn’t find the emoji capper. You just

⏹️ ▶️ John went back in and changed a bunch of nouns to emoji, which is a good feature and you should have it, but you should also have a way

⏹️ ▶️ John to quickly inline autocomplete emoji

⏹️ ▶️ John in the message. Anyway, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey version. It still makes sense to me, though, because it’s considerably faster to type words

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than to scroll through that damned emoji list trying to find the right emoji. So it made sense to me. Speaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of writing, you can write with your own handwriting, kind of like on the watch, but better, which is exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You can do the same thing that Google showed where you can make the text that expands and shrinks. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you pointed out, John, that it will land and its resting state is full-size

⏹️ ▶️ Casey text. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what we talked about. A lot of the things we saw demoed are exactly what Google demoed in its Allo thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Down to the whisper and shouting and the bigger emoji and all the other stuff, only Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John did some of them better. And the whisper is a great example. If you want to be like whisper and have tiny text, you can do that. But it stays

⏹️ ▶️ John small just for a second and then comes back to what I assume is whatever the normal size is. So if you have your font

⏹️ ▶️ John size cranked up in iOS for accessibility, then your whisper will start up microscopic for a second,

⏹️ ▶️ John get the effect, but then it doesn’t stay that way. It goes large again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. One of the things I like most, and I can’t verbalize why, but I really liked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Invisible Ink. I thought that was really, really cool because it’s like, hey, I’m showing you something that’s… They’re both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shaking their heads and laughing at me right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco now. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John showing something that… You like the worst

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John think it’s cute. I think there’s an emotional aspect

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ John works. But here’s the thing that that worries me a tiny bit about it. Invisible Ink, the feature,

⏹️ ▶️ John makes people’s phones act exactly like the crazy haunted gadget that some people

⏹️ ▶️ John believe their phones are. So the first time you send this to somebody

⏹️ ▶️ John who doesn’t know what this is, they’re like, Oh, I’ve got a virus. My phone is haunted. The letters are all scrambly.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t see anything. I’m sure they’ll get over that and you’ll explain it or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. I think it is a good feature. It’s a clever feature. It is another feature that will confuse people who are less

⏹️ ▶️ John savvy than

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey maybe, especially

⏹️ ▶️ John since it’s not obvious what you’re supposed to do with it when you know it’s not obvious that you should swipe it to make it go away. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So that’s fair and it looks

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly like what people think bugs look like in like movies

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like bug

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey in my

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. All the text is all scrambly. The aliens are into

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it. It looks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it looks more like sand is covering it. But I mean your point is still fair. It seemed to me like the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new messages is a combination of Slack with the responses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on individual lines, which I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John yeah I never

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought how you engage that but you can like thumbs up an individual message

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that somebody else like actions Do you think yeah?

⏹️ ▶️ John Flagging for your own purposes. Do they see your

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey thumb? I think they do Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My impression was that they see it’s very much like the way Slack works if you happen to have you’ve used Slack

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I like that a lot so, you know the example they have on the the introduction iOS 10 page,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and they call it Tap Back. So here you go, just tap to send one of six quick responses that let people know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you’re thinking. And so they have an example of somebody saying, head to Santa Cruz, question mark,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and then the tap back is a little thumbs up. And that’s actually really convenient because, especially if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re like on the go, you can just basically say, yes, I acknowledge what you’ve said, I agree

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, let’s do it, we’re good, rather than having to write out a text message. So it’s a combination of Slack, Snapchat,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I jokingly celebrated during the keynote that I don’t have to learn how Snapchat works anymore because it seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot of those features have come into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John iOS. This is way more limited than Snapchat. Oh, absolutely.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like I tweeted, it’s baby slap,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Snapchat. Yeah, it really is. It’s Snapchat for parents. Yes, which makes it perfect for us.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, exactly. Some of this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff is also a little weird, like the let’s celebrate. Say things like happy birthday or congratulations with animations

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that take over the entire screen and you can have like bubbles fly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey balloons, excuse me, fly off. And confetti and

⏹️ ▶️ John fireworks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Those all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John look really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sherlock’s underscores confetti

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I was I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think some of that stuff again it’s gonna be the kind of thing like serious jokiness we’re like it might be cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the first time you see it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like there’s only a very small handful of these like canned effects so it’s good they’re gonna get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old quickly I think and and I think some of them seem a little heavy-handed you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall I think it’s it’s a cool it’s a fun little feature to have but I do think the implementation of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is gonna is gonna get I think a little a little annoying pretty quick but

⏹️ ▶️ John listen is that’s that’s what how you view it but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s a nice

⏹️ ▶️ John thing to have but like this is how entire groups of people communicate all the time

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yet

⏹️ ▶️ John the same limited palette of stuff that you would find annoying really quickly but as far as they’re concerned anything that you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t do this with is crap and they never get tired of it like never meaning

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like all right that’s fair

⏹️ ▶️ John I could just I mean I scroll through like my kids conversations like their their tolerance for

⏹️ ▶️ John repeated and they don’t even have they have even smaller vocabulary now and they’re still just repeating it and everything like

⏹️ ▶️ John I think this will… It’s not how we will communicate, but you have to have this and you have to have

⏹️ ▶️ John even more of it. And they will not burn out on these things. They will just keep using them and potentially abusing

⏹️ ▶️ John them. I just hope they don’t crash the app because that’ll be a shame.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Well, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to that end, there’s now an app store for iMessage, which in principle, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 100% behind, but in execution,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John a little scared. People are

⏹️ ▶️ John already doing that with buying the keyboards, like Kim Kardashian keyboards.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey They’re responding to

⏹️ ▶️ John a market. And again, it’s not like Apple is like, oh, we are

⏹️ ▶️ John the pioneers. They’re catching up. This is a thing that people do on all platforms, that they’re finding a way to do through keyboards on Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John platforms. This is what people want to do with their phones. It may not be what we want to do with our phones, but they have to provide a way to

⏹️ ▶️ John do it, even if it’s outside the realm of, like, if Steve Jobs was still alive today, what would he think of

⏹️ ▶️ John this? Probably not up his alley. Probably he would want

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco things to be… Oh, he was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a sucker for, like, kitschy animations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and stuff. Right. He would love that kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff. But I think, I don’t know if he… I think he might draw the line of, like, the sticker stores.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, well, but you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, I think one thing that’s interesting, like a theme we saw throughout this, you know, you look at like things like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco integration with other services into your contacts. So you can like, you know, write in your address book or your contact

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app. You can see like, you can call this person on WhatsApp or whatever. I don’t know how these things… Is that a phone call

⏹️ ▶️ Marco service ever? Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John just messaging? Just use Skype. So, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so now you can do that. You know, they have like all these little hooks everywhere that, you know, that are slowly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adding more places where third party apps can hook into the system and appear native. If you look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at something like Android or Windows, you know, where things are, but more Android really, things are kind of like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wild West and there are lots of ways for apps to hook in all over the place or to be everywhere,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s done in like a very Wild West, kind of risky or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unstable or just kind of messy way. What Apple has done with iOS is slowly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make a system over time in which you can integrate and when you integrate, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as nice as the built-in stuff. And they’re doing this very slowly over a decade. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the result is so different from what you get on Android. Where on Android, you could do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way more, especially back in the day on day one. You could do way more. But it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resulted in overall, I think, a less nice system than what we’re slowly developing on iOS,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where now you can integrate all sorts of cool stuff. You can integrate certain kinds of apps in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many different places all around the OS and make it seem just like the first party integration.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but without many of the downsides of the Android-style, kind of more Wild West system.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And without

⏹️ ▶️ John the downsides of the Apple approach, which is, OK, you can have some integrations. But when you,

⏹️ ▶️ John say, ask Siri to contact somebody or pull up some UI, we’re always going to show you

⏹️ ▶️ John ours first. Their whole pitch was, oh, but if most of the time when you talk to this person, you do it through WeChat,

⏹️ ▶️ John that will be the first choice. We won’t say, oh, well, OK, you could add that extra integration. But that’s a frill. When

⏹️ ▶️ John you contact them, any pro way programmatically will always present you with the Apple ones first. And this ties in with

⏹️ ▶️ John the ability to delete the built-in Apple apps and the potential, I don’t know if this is confirmed yet, ability to

⏹️ ▶️ John pick different default apps for things. Do we

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know anything about that? Yeah, so hold

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on really quick. Before we get to that, I just want to say that I am all in on the messages stuff. I’m really excited about it. And during the State of the Union,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget who it was, but they were talking about the sticker pack specifically, and they were saying, oh, here, look at how easy it is to build

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these. You do need Xcode, but whoever it was, they started Xcode, did a new project

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from this new template, and they said, okay, I’m almost done. literally all they have done was made a new project.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You just like drag in the images. Right, exactly. And that’s about it, like there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco code, like you can make a codeless sticker

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey app. Which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is really exciting and impressive, and I’m really hopeful about that, but I’m also very scared that that’s just gonna be spam

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John city.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you wanna, you can sell images, like I’m sure people will just upload pictures of Star Wars stuff and try

⏹️ ▶️ John to sell them until Lucasfilm,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know, whatever. It’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a copyright infringement nightmare.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so leaving messages behind, I’m really enthusiastic about it. Some things I don’t totally understand, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s really great. What John is alluding to, as summarizer in chief, is some people have noticed that you can actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey delete the stock mail app that comes on iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and they’re in the App Store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey now. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want to get it

⏹️ ▶️ John back, how do I get it back? Go

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to the App Store. Hit

⏹️ ▶️ John the little cloud with a downward facing arrow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And there’s been no official documentation or talk about what that means. But it could potentially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, and it seems like it means, that you can get a different default

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mail app. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not 100% sure about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John So say you delete the mail app. Do you have no way to send mail? Does the mail share sheet not show up anymore

⏹️ ▶️ John and that’s their solution?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or what happens if you ask Siri for a certain feature that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John requires,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you delete the weather app, can Siri still get the weather? There’s stuff like that. The system has been built for so long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to assume that these certain apps are always available. So it’ll be interesting to see how they handle all this. I mean, whether

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re going to get the ability to change default, I think, is a totally separate decision. We can have this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco system that only exists so we can delete the tips app.

⏹️ ▶️ John But like, let’s say you like tap a mail link

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey in

⏹️ ▶️ John a way in a mail to link in a web view.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, I just tell you handler.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, no, I’d say there’s an alert. So there’s a tweet by Mike Zornik who will put this in the show notes. And it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey picture that he said he got from a mail to link and it says restore mail question mark. You follow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the link that requires

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the mail,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is no longer on this iPhone, you can restore it from the app store. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy. Like we’re it’s a half solution. Like Yes, it’s great that we can delete the tips app like it’s all we’re all for that, right.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if I delete mail, like the share share sheet we already have a solution to if i delete mail and i go to share

⏹️ ▶️ John a link the gmail share thing will be there good we’re all set there but the default comes in when

⏹️ ▶️ John oh i tap a mail to link then what happens it’s nice that it’s not an error or nothing happens and it

⏹️ ▶️ John gives you a button to fix it be nicer we said hey i delete the mail app for a reason because i don’t use it to

⏹️ ▶️ John do my mail let me tell you which one i do use to do my mail and then you come up with a protocol or an intent

⏹️ ▶️ John system or whatever that says make the gmail app conforming with this and it can replace and maybe they have that planned. But

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it could be that that dialogue is coming up because we have not detected any other application on the system that can handle

⏹️ ▶️ John the mail intent or whatever. And therefore we have to bring this dialogue up. Whereas when you learn about this new API

⏹️ ▶️ John in a session later this week, you can make the Gmail app be a stand in mail application because that’s part of it. You have to

⏹️ ▶️ John to be it to fulfill the role of a default web browser mail client messages client or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have to be conformant with whatever way the system communicates to you. How does it

⏹️ ▶️ John launch you and say you’re now supposed to be composing a message. The mail app does whatever the hell it does and the system integrates with

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Once it becomes open to third parties that has to be formalized. So I would say that that dialogue doesn’t tell

⏹️ ▶️ John us anything yet other than no current applications are able to be the

⏹️ ▶️ John default mail application. I still hope that we will learn that there’s an easy way for them to do that and that would be great.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’ll see.

Closing thoughts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are pretty much out of time for now, but before we go, Marco, how do you feel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about the keynote and the State of the Union, which we didn’t get to talk too much about? One thumb up, two thumbs up, two thumbs down. How do you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Overall, I think two thumbs up. We’re going to see, you know, there’s a lot of stuff that there’s still the question

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mark of, like, well, if that really works well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it’ll be great. Yeah, I think there is a lot of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or like, you know, we’re kind of guessing how certain things are going to be implemented. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as we find out more about the details of these things, obviously, you know, my opinion it might be refined, but overall, I’m very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy with this. And overall, I think it’s really good. I mean, there were some things that we were hoping for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we didn’t get, but I think we got a bunch of really big stuff, it’s gonna be really nice. So overall, for me, two thumbs up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John?

⏹️ ▶️ John I really like that, you know, so they pre-leaked basically no hardware, so that prepared us for that, which is, again, disappointing,

⏹️ ▶️ John but, you know, fine. I like that in the absence of hardware, they now, they had a four-platform

⏹️ ▶️ John structure to focus on, and they took us through each of the platforms, and the kind of, the good

⏹️ ▶️ John keynotes, especially about software, are the ones where you find yourself saying, finally, yes, that thing, that thing that’s been

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco annoying me, you have addressed it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And every single one of the sections had things that were all like, yes, good, finally,

⏹️ ▶️ John I am excited to do that. That has annoyed me for a long time, and you’ve solved it. Or I am excited that you recognize,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, it’s fun to see them recognize a problem, like with the watchOS thing, that they didn’t just say, oh, and we tweak

⏹️ ▶️ John things to make it a little faster. It’s like, we feel your pain. We understand we didn’t do a good job. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ John taking another run at it. And of course, the biggest finally of all, the file system, which I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so tickled that they pre-announced,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though it’s still not coming in 2017, until 2017 is exactly what I talked about last week.

⏹️ ▶️ John I am super happy about that. And I guess we’ll just all wait patiently for the hardware that’s going to replace

⏹️ ▶️ John my now unsupported Mac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I think two thumbs up. I thought it was really good. The only problem I had with the presentation was the thing I was most amped about during

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the keynote was the watch stuff. And so not that it was downhill from there, but I thought that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the most impressive stuff of everything. I mean, I’m sorry, I’m just not, I don’t enjoy the file systems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco as much as you do. Casey,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they revamped emoji for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Well, okay. They put emoji everywhere for you. That’s a good point. That’s a good point. They made them three times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bigger. And they did. All right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John fine. You’re right. You’re right. That was all Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like I’m on top four. I feel like I’m on top four again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You’re arguing with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me, but you’re right. So, okay. But no matter what, I still land on two thumbs up. I thought it was really, really good. And I’m really looking forward to it. Although

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree with a little bit of what each of you said. I completely agree, Marco, that it’s a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey assuming this works, but we have no reason to believe it won’t. So far,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so good. And I agree with what John said about, oh, finally, this is a thing. Finally, this is fixed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you’re absolutely right. You nailed it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s like a mean way of saying they had things that people liked. They

⏹️ ▶️ John announced things that people like, lots and lots of things that people like. Big things, small things. I mean, that’s what they’re supposed to do. But

⏹️ ▶️ John it didn’t feel like they were lacking in any of the platforms. There were tons of things that, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, good things. We just had an episode was like, WC is not Santa Claus, but they still bring

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of little gifts.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You know, that’s how presentations

⏹️ ▶️ John work. And like Marco said, we could unwrap them and there’s a dog turd in there and we’ll see. But, but,

⏹️ ▶️ John but for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey now we’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ John there are many great gifts. If something is for everybody under this tree of WWDC and in a way,

⏹️ ▶️ John the hardware getting the hardware out of the picture just stops us from talking about hardware. and we’re just like, all right, all of your

⏹️ ▶️ John platforms have new, better things. That is the blessing of waiting all year and

⏹️ ▶️ John holding all this stuff and holding it in for one big burst is that we get to be cranky right up to the point where everybody’s saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, they did have a bunch of nice stuff for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us. Actually, I think, John, if we’ve learned anything from today, it’s that if it is a dog turd that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in that gift box, it’s actually a dog turd emoji at three times the size. And it’s happy.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it’s a very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy dog turd. All right, thanks a lot to our sponsors this week. and thanks for all the live listeners

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for who tuned in. We had 925 live listeners today. Holy crap, seriously?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah. Wow. So that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might be a record for us. And thanks everybody, and we’ll cover a lot more this next week. So we’ll talk to you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then. Thanks a lot.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental John didn’t do any research, Margo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, Auntie Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse, oh it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John All right, thank you live people.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s very kind of you to tune in and I’m sorry we weren’t in the chat room and I’m sorry we’re basically hanging up on you. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we gotta go. See you later. I can’t believe this worked. Thanks for watching!