Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

167: They’ve Opened the Door to Streakers

WWDC 2016 tickets and changes, the MacBook Two (?), and John’s vacation in California.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Always on vacation 🖼️
  2. WWDC ticket status 🖼️
  3. Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP10) 🖼️
  4. Tesla vs. Level 2 EV chargers 🖼️
  5. MacBook Two? 🖼️
  6. Windows XP sounds 🖼️
  7. Sponsor: Betterment 🖼️
  8. WWDC changes this year 🖼️
  9. Sponsor: Ring Video Doorbell 🖼️
  10. John’s new hardware 🖼️
  11. Ending theme 🖼️
  12. Post-show: Canonical bagels 🖼️
  13. Post-show: Tesla perception 🖼️

Always on vacation

Chapter Always on vacation image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, are you, are you broke now? Did you get a ticket?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, talk about on the show. Come on. That’s the show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So how’s things going, John? How was your, uh, vacation in California?

⏹️ ▶️ John It was very, uh, Californian.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, so you didn’t, you didn’t really live in reality. Everywhere you went, you just dropped a hundred

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollar bills like they were, like they were singles.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sometimes it felt like that. There were expensive things there, but, uh, overall, Everything

⏹️ ▶️ John worked out. I think I took every form of transportation Except for a taxi. I don’t even know if they still have those in San Francisco.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think they’ve been outlawed

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so the vacation was good. You seem to hang out with Most of the friends of the internet that I can think of that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are in that neck of the woods

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we did all the touristy things that you can do in San Francisco. We you know did bus tours

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you like Alcatraz? Yeah went to Alcatraz rode on a cable car went to the

⏹️ ▶️ John really windy Street You know, did all the tourist things you can do. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that the tourist things in San Francisco are ride on a really bad road, take mass

⏹️ ▶️ Marco transit, and go to jail.

⏹️ ▶️ John I went to the woods too. And we went to beaches up and down the coast

⏹️ ▶️ John on the beach in Santa Cruz and some other beach that I don’t know where it is, but it’s got little tidal pools. Did the Pacific Ocean stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John Went on a hike in Marin County. You know, just lots of things. We fit a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John in the short number of days we were there.

WWDC ticket status

Chapter WWDC ticket status image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as we record, it is Friday night, the 22nd. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we should probably talk about the elephant in the room. Um, WWDC ticket announcements are starting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to trickle out as we record this. Uh, how’d it go for you, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, in the lead up to this, I had some issues that I had to deal with mostly of my own creation,

⏹️ ▶️ John but when you sign up for the lottery, it has the, this year I had the same message that I had. I think it was the same

⏹️ ▶️ John message that I had in previous years. Um, but at any rate, the same realities in previous years, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John if you enter the lottery and you win the lottery, they attempt to charge your credit

⏹️ ▶️ John card at the moment they have decided you’ve won the lottery. And if that charge doesn’t go through for some reason,

⏹️ ▶️ John they say, actually you have not won the lottery. We’re moving on to the next person. Which

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is very bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John It happened to a lot of people in the past and Apple’s been pretty good about trying to go back and give

⏹️ ▶️ John them tickets later, but it’s a really terrible system in that if they pick your name out of the hat and is a winner

⏹️ ▶️ John of the lottery, They should give you a day or two to sort out the payment situation. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John why might your credit card reject it? Because your credit card company is fraud happy and it sees this big $1,600

⏹️ ▶️ John charge randomly on a card and I don’t know how their fraud detection works but if you trip your

⏹️ ▶️ John credit card company’s fraud detection Apple will give your ticket to somebody else. They won’t say well

⏹️ ▶️ John you got rejected but we’ll give you 24 to 48 hours to sort it out with your credit card company. No they just move on immediately

⏹️ ▶️ John and so this year same message they said just wanted you to know that if we fail to charge your credit card we’re taking your ticket away

⏹️ ▶️ John and giving it to someone else which is terrible it’s just a terrible system it should be again 24 to 48 hours let

⏹️ ▶️ John the people sort out whether they can get it so I was afraid this would happen when I signed up I saw that the

⏹️ ▶️ John credit card I had in there is my traditional this is what I used to buy my max with credit card which also

⏹️ ▶️ John happens to be the traditional Apple cannot charge my credit card because the payment company rejected because

⏹️ ▶️ John it thinks it’s fraud I bought so many thousands of dollars for the maximum this one credit card same number it’s never been

⏹️ ▶️ John stolen on the internet it’s a miracle right and year after year every time I try to buy Apple equipment with it

⏹️ ▶️ John they market is fraud one of the things I suggest is hey Apple says this in their message you should call your credit card

⏹️ ▶️ John company and tell them to expect a $1,600 charge sometime in the next you

⏹️ ▶️ John know between the 22nd and the 25th from and they don’t even tell you the name I guess just from Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John computer so that’s what some people have done and again people have done

⏹️ ▶️ John it and call their credit card company and tell them, please don’t reject my card, there’s going to be a charge and the credit card company will say,

⏹️ ▶️ John yep, thumbs up, don’t worry, it’ll go through and that gets rejected because they’re credit card companies.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I think also like the whole thing about like calling your credit card company to like pre-approve a big transaction,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s kind of like the door close button on most elevators.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Their system is all like so advanced for fraud detection these days. Like I’m pretty sure like when you when you call

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most credit card companies and tell them like, oh, hey, whitelist this thing in the future that hasn’t even happened yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think they even can do anything about it because the system is based mostly on, like, do you have a pre-approval

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do you have an attempt for the charge? And then do we issue a commit for the charge?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if they don’t have even the attempt for the charge, I don’t think the people on the phone can even do anything about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s funny you bring that up because last year I saw that same message and the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The fear was put in me and I called my credit card company and I got on the phone with them and I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, hey, you know, I’d really like to try to get this charge pre-approved. It’s really important to me. And they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically in so many words said, yeah, that’s not a thing. We can’t do that. Goodbye, clunk.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this year I did the same thing and I called the credit card company and I took

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a different approach this time and I said, hey, there’s a really important charge that may or may not be going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey through and I’d really like to make sure that it doesn’t get held up, can you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pre-approve it or annotate my account in some way such that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s a note that this is acceptable?” And so I eventually got pushed to the fraud department, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes sense because they’re the ones who would keep track of this thing, and I got on the phone with the woman and she had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, you know, okay, well, what are you trying to accomplish? Well, I’d like to pre-approve this thing. Well, you have to understand, like, there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lottery and if I win the lottery—wait, wait, you’re talking like some sort of gambling thing? No, no, no, no, no, it’s not gambling.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s all right, here’s the thing. So there’s this like, conference, it’s a nerd conference,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s really important to me and this and that. And eventually, she was like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John okay, too

⏹️ ▶️ John much information already. Yeah, you’ve already lost.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So she was like, Okay, whatever. So I’ve made a note. And then I’m thinking to myself, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, um, I don’t know if it’s relevant or not. But the charge would be from Apple, like she didn’t even care who the charge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is from. So I think you’re right that she was like, Yeah, okay, whatever. That’s That’s great, go away. And then I, by coincidence, happened

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see a friend of the show, underscore David Smith, for lunch today, and he and I were talking about it, and he immediately

⏹️ ▶️ Casey came to the same conclusion that you guys did, which is the one I eventually came to, which was, oh yeah, this is not a thing. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all automated. There’s nothing you can do about it anyway. Good freaking luck.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These charges look so suspicious also, because like, it’s $1,600, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as much as a laptop costs from a company that, if you stole a credit card and you wanted to go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get a quick whim as something you could quickly flip and sell, you’d probably go buy a fancy technology product

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a fancy laptop from Apple. I bet lots of fraudulent charges are for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple. It’s also a card-not-present transaction because it’s done online. So again, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you steal a credit card online, you’re probably going to go try to place an order from the Apple Web Store, which is exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where these charges come from. You’re calling up and saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this charge might happen. I can’t even tell you that I’m definitely trying it. I haven’t tried it yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This charge might happen in a few days.” So you’re basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco asking their fraud detection systems to completely go against all of their heuristics

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and instincts,

⏹️ ▶️ John basically. So the note the person made in your account, that’s for other human beings

⏹️ ▶️ John to read. But the thing that’s going to reject your WWDC charge is not a human, and we’ll never look at that note,

⏹️ ▶️ John and therefore that note is meaningless.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree. And that’s exactly what Underscore said as well. And I think you’re that it really was just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I could go to sleep at night, that if for some reason I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had a rejection, that I have done everything in my power to make sure that this goes through, which is to say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve wasted five minutes of my time and several phone operators time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So I had an alternate strategy suggested by my wife, which was, why don’t you use the credit card

⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t get rejected, which is another one of our credit cards that historically speaking has not gotten

⏹️ ▶️ John immediately rejected every time we tried to buy buy expensive things with it. I think we may have bought some Apple hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John with it. In fact, I did buy some Apple hardware with it in California,

⏹️ ▶️ John which we’ll talk about later. And so I said, that’s a good idea. So I went to go

⏹️ ▶️ John change the default credit card. This is after I had entered the lottery, so already I’m nervous, I’m like, I’ve already entered the lottery,

⏹️ ▶️ John it said that it was gonna use that card, I’m gonna change a different card. So I log in to that Apple ID,

⏹️ ▶️ John and have you seen the new site for like when you sign in? It’s got this weird

⏹️ ▶️ John interface where everything is centered and it shows your certificates and your iTunes Connect account. And anyway, there’s an option

⏹️ ▶️ John to go edit your account or change your payment method. And that sends you to and it wants you to sign

⏹️ ▶️ John in there and enter my Apple ID and try to sign in. And it says, this Apple ID is not an email address. You cannot

⏹️ ▶️ John continue. And I knew this day would come someday. I have an Apple ID that is not an email address because I got it a really

⏹️ ▶️ John long time ago. And I’ve been using it for years and years, going to WWDC with it, doing all sorts of stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John with it. And many people I know who had non-email Apple IDs

⏹️ ▶️ John had gotten that same message many years past and had to change it. And so I’m thinking, is this the right, the

⏹️ ▶️ John best time to change my Apple ID from one that’s not an email to one that’s an email?

⏹️ ▶️ John But I also wanna change the payment method. And this is the only, I tried many different ways to get around this. Can I get my credit card

⏹️ ▶️ John information without going through this thing that demands that I change it to an email? Eventually I gave

⏹️ ▶️ John up and said, I have to change it to an email. So now my non-email Apple ID is no more. It has been

⏹️ ▶️ John converted

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco to

⏹️ ▶️ John an email address, Apple ID, like the rest of the peons.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I could get in to change my credit card, and I did, and I changed the credit card that does not get rejected.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that was all of my prep, and I thought long and hard about, should I just leave it the way it is,

⏹️ ▶️ John or should I try to call somebody to get the credit card changed over the phone while leaving my Apple ID? Is it

⏹️ ▶️ John a good idea? And that was most of the excitement and bother about it because

⏹️ ▶️ John I thought they were gonna tell Us who got the ticket on the 25th, but I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s just the lower bound But I saw Marco talking in slack about how he hadn’t gotten the email about

⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC yet so I checked my email inbox and lo and behold I saw a $1,599 charge.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yay I do

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco have

⏹️ ▶️ John a WWDC ticket and then I had to scramble and buy plane tickets and do all the other stuff So I’m going I will be there

⏹️ ▶️ John even though I was just there I will be there again It will cost a tremendous amount of money still haven’t decided

⏹️ ▶️ John which hotel which of the two hotel reservations I’ve made I’m going to keep in which one I’m going to cancel

⏹️ ▶️ John But one of them I will keep so I will be there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what else is going on these days

⏹️ ▶️ John You you guys have to answer but your experience has been like did you win the lot the ticket lottery?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s talk about anything else in the entire world. But that

⏹️ ▶️ John that.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Nope.

⏹️ ▶️ John I take it by your sadness that neither one of you got tickets in the lottery?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As we record, I have not received an email. I have not received a you got one email and I have not received a ha ha tough nuggies

⏹️ ▶️ Casey email

⏹️ ▶️ John either. Right, you’ve got until the 25th technically to see whether you get one.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Just because you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco have an email

⏹️ ▶️ John right now does not mean you’re not going to get a ticket in the lottery because they have a three day window there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s probably not happening. Now I did not see any attempted charge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey against my card, although presumably I wouldn’t even I didn’t see an attempted one unless it went through. I did not see a charge go through.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But like I said, I haven’t received the Screw You email yet. My coworker, Jamie,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he did get one on the same master account, like we’re two individuals,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two members of the same group account. He already got his, so I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too terribly hopeful. But strictly speaking, I have until Monday afternoon

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see. But we’ll see what happens. I have not yet received any confirmation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or denial and Marco. I believe you’re in the same boat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is correct I have seen no no response about my ticket status

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are also I checked my bank and there is not a pending charge on the credit card

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I I’ve heard you know like like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP tipster in the chat is saying that he asked around and that that apparently the The charges are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still being processed that like it’s not over yet but I think it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over and that’s you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we talked about this on under the radar this past week or last week I guess I am totally fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going without a ticket like I would prefer to have a ticket but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every year I think my need for it goes down and I in this year if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I if I don’t get one through the regular process like everybody else I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just like I’m not gonna like to pull strings or anything or you know try to email around or email developer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco relations or whatever i’m not i don’t think i’m gonna do any of that because i don’t i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if i can get one through the regular means that’s great um but if i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know that’s fine too i’ll let somebody else take it

⏹️ ▶️ John so what do you think about we discussed this briefly in slack what do you think about the idea that

⏹️ ▶️ John one or all of us should get tickets because we have a podcast where we talk about Apple stuff. In other words, us going as press rather

⏹️ ▶️ John than as I develop iOS developers or whatever, because I think that is a perfectly legitimate

⏹️ ▶️ John reason for people to go to WWDC. In fact, I have in the past had press pass to WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John for writing my OS 10 reviews, which I’m no longer doing. But podcasts are a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And people interested in technology listen to podcasts. And at the very least, you would imagine, especially now that they’re holding the

⏹️ ▶️ John keynote in the big auditorium, we’ll talk about later, that there’s more room for press, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John for the keynote at least, if not for the entire conference, or maybe just for the first day things with the State of the Union and everything like

⏹️ ▶️ John that, then why shouldn’t somebody who has a reasonably popular

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple tech-related podcast be in the running at least, be considered for press passes?

⏹️ ▶️ John How many tech podcasts do get press passes to WWDC?

⏹️ ▶️ John As far as I know, there aren’t any, I’m not aware of any pure

⏹️ ▶️ John podcasts that get press passes as in there’s not an associated website. It’s not like, oh, I’m from the

⏹️ ▶️ John Verge cast, but I’m part of the Verge, and the Verge gets press passes. Just all you have is a podcast, kind of like we have. There is

⏹️ ▶️ John no ATP website to speak of. Marco’s got his blog, and we all have our own individual blogs, and there’s an

⏹️ ▶️ John website for the podcast, but it’s not like it’s associated with a website that has any appreciable traffic for just the

⏹️ ▶️ John show. So why shouldn’t there be a category

⏹️ ▶️ John of, you know, we’re going to get press passes to, of course, all the the big publications and all the big websites and also

⏹️ ▶️ John one or two tech podcasts that we pick out of a hat or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree with you. I don’t think it’s unreasonable, but clearly I’m extremely biased and especially right now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because although I’m not saying I’m going to pull a bunch of strings because honestly I don’t think I even have strings to pull, but if strings

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were pulled on my behalf, people of the Internet, I wouldn’t complain because I’m still learning all this stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I would still I would still love to get an actual ticket into the big show. I will be there regardless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I would love to have a ticket, especially since it is more pertinent to my world than ever before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I mean, really, like, for among the three of us, I think, Casey, you probably have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the biggest justification for going this year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This year, yeah. I don’t think we could say that in years past, but this year I would agree. Although it’s probably best

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that if any of us, John gets it, because all three of us know that if John didn’t get a ticket,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s no freaking way we would convince him to go to San Francisco just for funsies.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Exactly. I was just there too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. Even more reason for you to tell us to kindly screw off.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is worth pointing out also that like the press tickets, like the people who cover

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the keynote for the press who get press badges, first of all, it’s kind of an awesome gig because you don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wait in the four-hour long line, but second of all, those people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do not get conference badges for the rest of the conference. It’s only the keynote.

⏹️ ▶️ John In general, there are exceptions.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s very rare to have an exception though. It would be plausible and reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for them to consider large tech podcasts to cover their developer conference to give them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco press passes, but it wouldn’t necessarily follow that they would get conference tickets. And the press passes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tend to go out far later. The press people aren’t getting invited now. They’re probably going to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco invited two weeks before the event.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and in the old days, it used to be that USA Today and the New York Times and Time magazine

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff would get press passes but websites would not and then eventually a couple of websites

⏹️ ▶️ John became part of the blessed set that Apple PR chose to give passes to. These days

⏹️ ▶️ John it seems like it’s you know mostly websites and then of course paper publications or whatever so there is a progression

⏹️ ▶️ John of what are the what is the the the the entities that

⏹️ ▶️ John are allowed to get press passes what are they are they newspapers magazines websites podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think are in that group yet, but it’s a natural progression from only inviting paper publications to also including

⏹️ ▶️ John websites to eventually including podcasts. Assuming the audience of any podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John is big enough to warrant that, and maybe ours isn’t. I’m not saying that we, that ATP needs to get some, but-

⏹️ ▶️ John I am. Yeah, I’ll say that. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Come on, John, promote yourself. Well, you got one. You’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah. You don’t care. I mean, I got press pass with Ars Technica, but Ars Technica is a very big website, right? And The Verge is a very

⏹️ ▶️ John big website, right? Whereas any individual podcast can’t really compared to the size of a very big website like

⏹️ ▶️ John that. So maybe there’s some minimum number that they, you know, uh, many of them, a minimum audience

⏹️ ▶️ John size or whatever that they wanted to do. Anyway. Um, I think if someone inside apples doesn’t do this, that it

⏹️ ▶️ John would be silly not to include podcasts in your list of entities who should get press passes for the keynote in the

⏹️ ▶️ John first day, state of the union stuff because people listen to podcasts, people like them. Um, and they’re just as

⏹️ ▶️ John legitimate form of coverage and discussion as anything else.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s also worth pointing out too that the watch event, the very first watch event, it went over this like September

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or November 2014, right? Something like that. And that was at the Bill Graham auditorium

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also actually. But that very first watch event, at that event, that was the first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time where they really invited a very broad swath of press and partly because they were going into a new category. So they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had like watch press, fashion press, but that was also the first press event I know of where they invited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco major YouTube tech people like MKBHD. It seems like they’re like breaking the YouTube

⏹️ ▶️ Marco barrier or the YouTube seal. They’re breaking the YouTube seal in the last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple events recently, at least the really big ones. So maybe podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have some hope. I mean unfortunately, you know, podcasts are indeed older than YouTube but YouTube is way bigger than podcasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like MKBHD, his audience is probably 10 or 15 times the size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of ours at least. It’s probably even more than that. I haven’t looked recently. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John millions. They’ve got millions of viewers on the YouTube channel.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Yeah. So there are lots of really popular YouTubers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who would, by raw numbers, be ranked way above a tech podcast like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ours. But Apple PR also… It’s not purely based on numbers. It’s partly based

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on who you know. It’s partly based on a long, established reputation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and partly based on influence. So somebody who has a relatively small readership but a high influence,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Jim Dalrymple is a great example. Jim Dalrymple’s site, like if you look at his numbers on his stats and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sponsorship pages, there are sites that get more than that that don’t get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco passes. But because he’s so influential and he’s been around so long covering this stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that helps him be included on those lists. So it isn’t all about numbers. It is also about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco influence and relationships.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, someone in the chat room is saying that if they picked all three of us from ATP, it would be

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know, inside baseball echo chamber favoritism or whatever. That’s the job of PR. The PR

⏹️ ▶️ John department

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco at Apple, it’s job is to

⏹️ ▶️ John select which people… One possible PR strategy is only invite people who you know love

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple. Is that the best PR strategy? Probably not, but their whole job is to decide who to pick. Of course

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all favoritism. It’s who Apple PR favors and Apple PR if it’s good

⏹️ ▶️ John will not only favor, you know, people that love Apple, they will try to have an even mix where

⏹️ ▶️ John they want a positive outcome, but they’re not just going to pick people who, you know, never say anything negative about Apple there.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re picking based on a complicated criteria, but it is ultimately entirely their choice, right? So there’s no such

⏹️ ▶️ John thing as, you know, favoritism. It’s there’s it’s not like there’s no what is the opposite of favoritism

⏹️ ▶️ John that the government picks who gets to cover, you know, like Apple’s conference. It’s Apple’s conference of

⏹️ ▶️ John their PR people pick who gets press passes. That’s it. There’s no it’s not a democracy. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so anyway, and I would imagine to like the your ability to say negative things about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple and still get invited is probably correlated to your age and size. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, Joanna Stern can say in the Wall Street Journal that the iPhone doesn’t have enough battery life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if we say that that might hurt our chances of getting it, you know, like, because we are not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, we’re not the Wall Street. Yeah, thanks, Marco. Yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, you ruined it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all of us. Well, John got in. So I’m just gonna for you, Casey. Sorry, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. I mean, like, and

⏹️ ▶️ John once you once you come out of the press realm of talking about whether we should get passes or press passes or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John then it just gets into Okay, well, you’re just another iOS developer like everybody else. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John I have no idea what algorithm they used to randomly pick up. I did not win the lottery last

⏹️ ▶️ John year or the year before that. How many times years has lottery been going?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Three?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John so this is the first time I’ve ever actually won the lottery all the other years I’ve got like, you know, press pass and stuff. So

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, that’s probability for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I should also note, it is very clear on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC website, where they go through the policies and whatnot, that tickets are non

⏹️ ▶️ Casey transferable. You know, if somebody was kind enough to offer like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, Marco or Casey, you can have my ticket because I want you to have it even though, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, I want it. It is possible to make that happen, but basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you have to do is ask Apple and give them a pretty good reason. And they have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey every right to say, ha ha, no. So yeah, it seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if Marco and I don’t get them sometime in the next few hours or slash couple of days.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then we’ll just be goofing off in San Francisco, riding the cable cars, eating rice-a-roni.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We will be sleeping in on Monday. That’s what we’re gonna be doing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey That is true, actually. We’re gonna be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not waiting on the freezing cold line at 5 a.m. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is absolutely true. And we’ll be eating a lot of rice-a-roni, because it’s a San Francisco treat. Ding ding!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my

⏹️ ▶️ John god. We couldn’t even make that joke because my kids don’t have never seen

⏹️ ▶️ John that commercial.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh goodness. That’s right. That’s your job as a parent is to make jokes that are barely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco funny to begin with that your kids won’t even get.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well have fun, John.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s cool. I hope you have a good time. You can come anyway. Go to the Layers Conference or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s probably what I’m gonna do. Yeah, actually, I don’t think it’s even been announced officially yet, but.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, they’ve announced the dates. There’s no tickets yet, but the dates have been announced.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s no tickets. Yes, you can’t buy tickets yet, but I will be going. I think, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, if I don’t get a WBC ticket, I’ll definitely be going to layers. And I think I’d even be going anyway. Last year I actually got both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I didn’t regret that at all. So I am looking forward to layers this year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, so I’ll be there for that at least. And I already booked the plane ticket. I’m gonna be there the whole week. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll see you there regardless of what happens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’re all gonna be

⏹️ ▶️ John there. Oh, and by the way, like, everyone’s talking about this, but like W2C has been getting more and more expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a couple of blog posts about how much more expensive it is for the past, I think this is close to my limit of like

⏹️ ▶️ John next year if current trends continue I may not even enter the lottery because it is such a tremendous amount

⏹️ ▶️ John of money and I’m not writing an OSX review. So I’m basically going for

⏹️ ▶️ John the purposes of this show and my own edification combination but boy

⏹️ ▶️ John it is a lot of money. I look at how much money it’s costing all in and I just think about what else I could do

⏹️ ▶️ John with that money. You know as my wife reminds me it will be tax deductible because this is a work thing But

⏹️ ▶️ John boy, it’s very difficult to justify as the price keeps going

⏹️ ▶️ John up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, especially like the hotel prices are probably the biggest chunk of it for most people now, unless you’re flying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from somewhere very far away. But otherwise, you’re paying almost $2,000 for the hotel in most cases. Or more. Or yeah, actually, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could… Depending

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John on

⏹️ ▶️ John how far you’re willing to walk and many other things. Whether you require a bathroom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John other such

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that seem like they should be included.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s why I made multiple reservations so that I can just decide

⏹️ ▶️ John how much I want to spend based on how far I want to walk and all sorts of other issues. And by the way, that’s for people

⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t know. I’m sure Marco covered this in the developing perspective that I have not listened to under the radar. Perfect.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s an understandable mistake. One of those underscore shows about prep for WBC

⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing that everybody in our circle tends to do these days is try to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John when WWDC is going to be based on reading tea leaves and stuff and then just make hotel reservations

⏹️ ▶️ John many, many months in advance. So I think I made my hotel reservations in January or February or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I made mine in February.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you can cancel hotel reservations without any cost in most hotels. So you just guess and make a whole

⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of reservations for a whole bunch of weeks and when Apple announces it, you cancel all the other ones.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that’s exactly what I did. I booked in early February, ended up guessing correctly, which was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excellent. The bill in early February for the hotel where we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all tend to stay was $2,500, roughly. I actually went through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dug up what the bills were at this same hotel over the last few

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John years

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and wrote a blog post about this. In 2013, it was $1,123.46.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As I just said, in 2016, it’s going to be thereabouts of $2,500.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If I were to get a ticket, which I’m hoping but not expecting, then it’s roughly $4,000

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to go to, or excuse me, not even to go there, to be in San Francisco,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey teleported by magic, to sleep there, and then go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC. Now I have not eaten any dinners. I haven’t actually made it to San Francisco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet. All I’m doing is sleeping and going to the conference. And I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looked at plane tickets. I booked my outbound ticket because I knew I was going to be there for at least a couple days even without a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC ticket. I have yet to book my return flight, but it should be about $500 all told.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in case you were wondering, it costs about the same amount of money to be transported in a tube through space, 3,000

⏹️ ▶️ Casey miles, whatever it is, across the country as it does to sleep one night in San Francisco.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey across the country and back, I should say, is approximately the same as one night in San Francisco.

⏹️ ▶️ John The joke we made last year is every night you’re there for WWDC, that’s one Apple Watch. Go to sleep, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco another Apple Watch. Go to sleep, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John another Apple Watch. Now it’s going to be, it’s a little bit nicer Apple Watch every night. Soon we’re going to graduate to the

⏹️ ▶️ John stainless steel model every night. Anyway, now that I’ve gotten a ticket,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can thank me for ensuring that there will be no new file system this year. Because if I didn’t show up, they would

⏹️ ▶️ John definitely announce a new file system. But because I’m going to be there, there will be no new file system this year.

⏹️ ▶️ John 2017, like I said, 2017, I won’t get a ticket, and they’ll release a new file system.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe we’ll get the the tipster USB hub before then.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s funny, because I had said to a few people, leading up to the WDC

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tickets being announced, you know, here it was, I’ve been 2011 through 15 inclusive.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And every one of those those years, you would think, well, I kind of didn’t have a lot of business being there, like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I I sort of did once ATP came, but in terms of like my day-to-day job, I had no business

⏹️ ▶️ Casey being there. I was just very lucky. And here it is. I am now an honest-to-goodness iOS developer, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sitting here now, I do not have a WWDC ticket. The one time when it makes sense for me to have one, I don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s okay, though. I’ll be okay.

Chapter Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP10) image.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there doesn’t need to be. I think it would look weird if it had one. These things just look like pure photos

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Tesla vs. Level 2 EV chargers

Chapter Tesla vs. Level 2 EV chargers image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should probably do what is indisputably follow up and we should talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about what a friend of the show man Reese has written in regarding

⏹️ ▶️ John This was about the charging stations again Tesla versus other he was pointing out the standard charging connector

⏹️ ▶️ John that we talked about last show And he says where he is in Austin, Texas There are hundreds of what

⏹️ ▶️ John he calls level two charging stations in Austin alone charge point calm list 27,000 total

⏹️ ▶️ John vastly outnumbering superchargers So these are not the super fast supercharged things for Tesla. Otherwise,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just kind of like Plug your car in while you’re shopping or while you’re at work or whatever So they

⏹️ ▶️ John charge more slowly, but there are many many more of them Some of them are free some of them charge an hourly rate or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John It says I have a lot of respect for Tesla trying to solve the road trip problem It’s ambitious and the kind of thing and no car company would do

⏹️ ▶️ John no other car company would do But they’re also doing a good job of having destination charges at hotels And

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m seeing great progress on the infrastructure. You actually need day-to-day within cities and those aren’t from Tesla So

⏹️ ▶️ John we talked so much about Tesla and their superchargers, but it’s important to acknowledge and I see this too at the mall and stuff that there are tons of

⏹️ ▶️ John electric car park here parking spots. And I guess those all have the standard SAE connector in them. And no, they

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t charge as fast as the superchargers do. That’s why the superchargers are super but there’s way, way, way more of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thanks a lot.

MacBook Two?

Chapter MacBook Two?  image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should also talk about and we made reference to him earlier MKBHD

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, now that we’re all jealous of the press pass that he’s getting and we’re not we should take this time to dance on his

⏹️ ▶️ John Self inflicted grave is that now mixing metaphor? Sorry. Wait, what happened? I missed this. Oh quote me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah He did it to his credit. He tweeted this himself. This is a tweet from him He says me in 2015 I

⏹️ ▶️ John guarantee the next-gen MacBook will have at least two USB C ports and then he put me right now because of course

⏹️ ▶️ John the new the MacBook was updated, we’ll talk about that a little later, it does not have two USB-C ports.

⏹️ ▶️ John Last year, whenever he made that video, he was very adamant that it will have more than

⏹️ ▶️ John one, quote me, he said, and I believe we had a chuckle about it on the show because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s totally an Apple thing to do to not add one more port. Despite the fact that we had like 17 episodes of ATP

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about this one port, we were not convinced, I don’t think, if my recollection serves. And

⏹️ ▶️ John now it’s going to be 18. yeah that apple was going to change their mind just because

⏹️ ▶️ John we want more than one port doesn’t mean apple does and lo and behold there’s a new macbook out it does not have more than one port

⏹️ ▶️ John mkbhd called himself on it to his credit we will put the links in the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John so and and also i think he ran out of room in the tweet because in the tweet he said i guarantee the next gen macbook

⏹️ ▶️ John in the actual quote he said i pretty much guarantee the second generation of this thin light new macbook

⏹️ ▶️ John lab so he said pretty much so he had a waffle word in there so he’s learning Learning

⏹️ ▶️ John the ways of the waffle words. He said pretty much guarantee, which is not the same as a guarantee. It’s like virtually

⏹️ ▶️ John spotless. Your dishes will have spots. So anyway, I gave him a

⏹️ ▶️ John pass. I also agree that they should have more than one port as previously discussed,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, something tells me that we have more to learn from MKBHD than he has to learn from us.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think, you know, we’ve seen a lot of comments since they… So, Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco updated the MacBook One, the 12-inch MacBook, which I call the MacBook One, which actually that name has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuck around in our circle. I’m actually very proud of that. So, Apple has updated the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook One with Skylake CPU this past week, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is not a big update. And a lot of people are really expecting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically the impossible from this. And I can’t blame them. I mean, you know, Apple has cultivated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an expectation of like products get a lot better in their second and third generations.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And everything is always getting better all the time. So shouldn’t this get better by leaps and bounds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too? And the reality is that the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One uses a special, extremely low power consumption Intel platform.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It uses a very low power CPU with a very limited low power chipset to power everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else also. And one of the core principles of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers today, modern mobile computers, especially laptops is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re limited by power and thermals. And so you have different classes of what kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of performance and what kind of connectivity, what kind of ports, what kind of luxuries, what kind of speeds,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how many cores. These are all determined by fundamentally how much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power can you supply the CPU and then correspondingly how much heat can you cool from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being emitted from the CPU. Like a MacBook Air, those CPUs are something like 17 watt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco consumption and heat design. A 13 inch MacBook, I forget what those are,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something in like the 25 range maybe, and then a 15 inch with the quad cores, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be somewhere in the 40 watt range. The MacBook One CPU has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 5 watt range. A 5 watt CPU cannot do a whole

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot compared to even the 17 watt CPUs in the MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let alone like the nicer 20 or 30 watt CPUs in like a 13 inch MacBook Pro. You know, the MacBook One is designed,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s fanless, which is one of the biggest limitations of this because even a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit of air moving through a heat sink can cool way more effectively

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than totally passive cooling systems. So this thing has no fan, it has a very small battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inside a very small enclosure. So the limitations placed on this are such that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The MacBook One, as long as it continues to be in that size enclosure and not have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an active cooling fan, and not have a substantially bigger battery, it will never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have similar performance as, like, even a couple generation old 13-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pro. Or even a couple generation old MacBook Air,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the MacBook Air is continued to be updated, which is a giant if, and the answer is probably no. But like, people who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expected the MacBook One to be like, two or three times faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than it was before, you’re going to be disappointed because there just isn’t enough thermal headroom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that kind of, in that enclosure. And desktop or PC

⏹️ ▶️ Marco CPUs don’t make those kind of jumps in power efficiency in one year. This computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will never match the MacBook Pro of like, even two or three years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it will, you know, it’s very limited by what it can do. And if you want something, basically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new MacBook one is something like 20% faster than the old MacBook one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I haven’t seen a whole bunch of benchmarks yet, but it’s in that ballpark in the ballpark, in the ballpark of 20% faster. And

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a big bump, too. Because like, you’re normally when we get new Macs, it’s like, oh, and the CPU is 15% faster,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you take what you can get 2025% faster and CPU is nothing to sneeze at. Like, I don’t think this is

⏹️ ▶️ John a bad update. is faster and gets more battery life. That’s what updates are supposed to do. They just didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John add a USB port,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever. Well, exactly. But a lot of people, especially people who have owned the MacBook One,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the previous, the first generation one, a lot of them… The MacBook One is a very slow computer. A lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them were hoping that this would make it a reasonably speeded computer, and it just doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because slow times 1.2 is still slow. And you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right, 20% in one generation is a massive jump

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for PC CPUs these days. You’re lucky to get 5% or 10% most of the time. So this was a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco substantial jump. Skylake was a long time coming, and it’s a major advancement

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by Intel. And so they put this in here, and it’s still a slow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer. It still only has one port, and some of that is because of limitations of that low-power chipset.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Adding more ports requires more from the chipset, which this super low-power chipset

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for some of the things people want doesn’t even support it, for some of the other things, you know, we don’t know why the reasons are that they were

⏹️ ▶️ Marco omitted but they probably have to do with space and power. So this computer will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never be what the MacBook Air is today. The role the MacBook Air serves today

⏹️ ▶️ Marco requires a little bit more space, a little bit bigger battery, and a fan.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is kind of the problem, like Apple has replaced the MacBook Air effectively from the way it appears

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve replaced the MacBook Air with a computer that can never replace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Air and it might be it might be irrelevant you know people a lot of people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this better that’s fine the MacBook Pro is likely to get a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot thinner and lighter when it gets its sky like updated you know any day now basically but probably a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco WDC so the MacBook Air is is kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of just left for nothing. There’s now these wonderful 17-watt CPUs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Intel makes that Apple is just not going to be using, I guess, in the future, which seems like a mistake,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t know. So the MacBook One, in order to get that size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re giving up quite a lot, and one of those things is that computer will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never be fast relative to the rest of the computers. It won’t even be remotely competitive compared to the rest of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lineup, and it will never have the connectivity of the rest of the lineup and if that’s what you want if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want some kind of modern performance and decent connectivity you’re gonna have to go with a bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco model and that’s not too bad because the bigger models are awesome

⏹️ ▶️ John then they get a SSD speed bump to yes yeah faster storage and I think faster storage

⏹️ ▶️ John will probably have more an impact on people’s lives of that computer than CPU speed because I don’t think people are using it to

⏹️ ▶️ John do like big CPU or they shouldn’t be using a big CPU test but everything you do like

⏹️ ▶️ John involves the disk like launching things and even just web browsing with the disk cache and everything. So I haven’t used

⏹️ ▶️ John one of these in person, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, but like the disk was already fast. Like it was already a PCI Express native SSD. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is, you know, if you look at raw numbers, it is faster now and it’s faster by a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good margin in like disk benchmarks. But the whole machine is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco held back dramatically by the very slow CPU and it’s very low power ceiling.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You might think, like I thought when I bought one for a day, I I thought, you know what? What am I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing on a laptop that needs that much power? It’s like, most of the time I’m just like typing and answering emails and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, most of the time it’s fine, right? Well, first of all, typing, not on that. But, and also the trackpad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the worst Force Touch trackpad I’ve ever used. But, you’d be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprised, like, modern OS X and things you take for granted that do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use CPU power, like viewing your photos. Like, if you wanted to like take your,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to sync your photo library over to that computer so you can take it with you and look at it on vacation or add to it on vacation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do even basic operations on photos that you take on vacation, even if they’re just photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from your phone, not from a fancy camera, that actually does use CPU power on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac and it actually is noticeably, annoyingly slow on that computer for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of cases. So again, it’s just like, this computer, if what you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a decently speedy computer that you’re not gonna ever notice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that slow, this is not the computer for you. Because it will always be slow. It can’t be fast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco relative to the rest of the lineup with that kind of thermal headroom limitation.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is the part of the program where I willfully refuse to look up the Geekbench numbers for this

⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote slow MacBook and compare them to the 2008 Mac Pro that I’m sitting in front of that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John size of a suitcase. Don’t wanna know. Moving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on. I think, just for reference, I’m pretty sure it’ll probably kill you on single threaded, but I bet you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I think you have at least double

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the multi-threaded. Let’s not discuss. What do you have, the 2.66, is that it? 8-core 2.6?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John remember, 2.8, right? Let me see, something like that. Yeah, no, 2.8. All

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right, 8-core 2.8. Mac Pro 2008. No,

⏹️ ▶️ John no, don’t look it up, what are you doing?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What did you think he was doing, John? You should have answered that question, come on. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John wanna know. It feels fast, I have all the storage. Chatroom, look at, I’ve got a terabyte SSD, take that, MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Listen to you bargaining with yourself.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, fast storage, it’s okay. There’s no terabyte SSD option in that thing, even though mine’s hooked up to

⏹️ ▶️ John SATA, not PCI Express, but I don’t wanna think about that either.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco At least it’s one USB port, it’s USB 3.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You don’t have that either.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I don’t have USB 3, but I don’t care about that. I have way more USB ports. My goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, while we send the chat room off to figure out how miserable John

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should be.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, you’re single threaded is only 1500 on that? Shhhh. That’s terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cover your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John many

⏹️ ▶️ John ear

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco holes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Our iMacs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are 4000. This is a 2008 computer. Give me a break. It was fast

⏹️ ▶️ John when I got it. The multi-threaded is respectable. You got 10,000 on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the multi-threaded. That is respectable. But 1500 on single. Like, iPhones beat that now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think my new

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad is faster than this Mac Pro.

Windows XP sounds

Chapter Windows XP sounds image.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, bumper sounds. I put this in there because…

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, my apologies. …last show, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Last show, Marco talked about the bumper sounds and we discussed the start-up chimes he used and he said he

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to use the Windows XP USB thing but didn’t because I wouldn’t like it. And what did he do in the next show? He used the USB

⏹️ ▶️ John sound from Windows XP. And guess what? I don’t like it. But they’re wonderful! And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guess what? Everyone else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey loves it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John else does. Not everyone else. The Windows users like it. They’re like, oh, Windows, I remember that. That’s great. Of course

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they’re going to like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It has nothing to do with that. The problem is it’s just what Marco said. I guess was last episode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was just what Marco said. It’s a perfect like mirror image. It’s do do and do do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John perfect. But they’re bad sounds and they’re from Windows and they’re from Windows XP for crying

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey out

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco loud. Here’s what the

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows XP sounds did. They made me like the the startup chime sounds better. Like by comparison,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though I thought the startup chimes that he chose were not the ones that I would have picked. At least they were Apple sounds

⏹️ ▶️ John and they weren’t from Windows and they weren’t. No, I do not like them. I do not like the

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows XP.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey This is not the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Tech Podcast. It’s the Accidental Tech Podcast. And we have accidentally…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ John but we talk about Apple all the time and none of us even use Windows anymore. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no. Well, but we have accidentally backed into the perfect ad bumper sounds. Marco, I stand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with you. I’m in full support.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re not the perfect ad bumper sounds. They’re terrible. And Microsoft’s going to come and sue you anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think Windows XP might be so old that it might be public domain. What is it? death of the author plus 75 years that they get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like that right it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s close how old is windows XP doesn’t Brian you know to do those sounds a brand-new did some Windows sounds maybe just

⏹️ ▶️ John for Windows 95 he’s still alive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh goodness I well I like them now I don’t want to get sued for into oblivion but I do like we’re not gonna get

⏹️ ▶️ John sued anyway I’m filing a formal protest against the Windows XP USB sounds as ad bumpers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so listeners feel free to tweet at Syracuse about how much you love the XP sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because we all do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or

⏹️ ▶️ John better yet the only way it’s good they’re gonna go away is if we have better alternatives so people should come up with high-quality recordings

⏹️ ▶️ John that are better alternatives that are either from Apple or from whole cloth that are not related to Windows.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or from fish maybe. I would accept fish more than

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Windows.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well and also like much of the complaining about the other sounds I picked the old Mac sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that they were like kind of like too jarring. Yeah I agree. Windows, Windows sound design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is always made to be so like universally pleasing so everybody feels nothing like the Windows sounds are like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sound equivalent of the paintings in hotel rooms like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John notice that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it is nice when there’s sound there but you don’t notice the sound and it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it offends nobody it’s completely bland and it’s fine

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the login sound is offensive you know the login sound oh yeah I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know the one where you log in and the big ugly Windows XP

⏹️ ▶️ John green grass desktop greets you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well I I thought logging was like, boop, and then the log out was doo doo doo

⏹️ ▶️ John doo. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. That’s maybe I may

⏹️ ▶️ John be remembering it the wrong way. But anyway, I think some of the window sounds are offensive. And I think the USB sound like

⏹️ ▶️ John it shouldn’t be making any sound when you plug in a USB device. And I don’t like those sounds. Thumbs down.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m not going to get into it, but the USB stack on OS 10 is is not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as good as the window. Like you can’t just unplug a USB stick,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though I’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey using

⏹️ ▶️ John the USB stack, I guess it did with like buffered I.O. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to do flush IO and every single IO operation and just wait till the lights not blinking and yank it

⏹️ ▶️ John out. That’s barbaric. Come on. Why not just go back to drive letters?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I tell you what, the one thing that drives Windows converts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crazy anytime I talk to one and it drives me kind of crazy too, is having to unmount drives.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It drives people. What do you mean I have to eject it? What are you talking about?

⏹️ ▶️ John But that’s how a modern IO system works. don’t flush everything to disk on every operation that would be crazy pants

⏹️ ▶️ John you have a buffer and you have to flush that buffer and you you have to know when it’s safe to eject

⏹️ ▶️ John something and how do you know how do you know when it’s safe i mean going back to the old unix days type you know

⏹️ ▶️ John sync twice because it’s voodoo and the second time really counts and then you can unmount your

⏹️ ▶️ John thing because then you’ll know all the bits have made their way to the disk.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ah, goodness.

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WWDC changes this year

Chapter WWDC changes this year image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC is going to be a little bit different this year. I’m probably not going to know about it in normal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry, I’ll compose myself. There’s going to be a different location for Monday.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are going to be at the Bill Graham Auditorium, which we briefly made mention of earlier. This is a change

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from at least before 2011. I mean, like I said, I’ve been going since 2011, Marco, since 09.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is that right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. No, I mean, they’ve never done something like this in San Francisco as far as you know. It used to mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you go back far enough, if you include Macworlds, then they have things in Boston and everything, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was all before our time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so the way Mondays typically worked in the past was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would line up absurdly early outside of Moscone, which is where the conference is. You would be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let in uncomfortably close to the time of the keynote, usually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway. You would walk up to three, or you would migrate your way up to the third floor, which is where the keynote was.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then there would be a mad stampede into the keynote room. There’d be the keynote. Everyone would get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey punted downstairs to eat. And then you would come back up and you would watch the developer’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey State of the Union, which was kind of like a keynote, but for nerdier types. And then Tuesday through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Friday was just regular conference time. This year, apparently on Monday, it’s all going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be in the Bill Graham Auditorium. And actually even the check-in on Sunday, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way it always used to work was you could check in in Moscone on Sunday. And now that check-in is apparently at the Bill Graham

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Auditorium on Sunday. And then all day Monday is at the auditorium.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s where the keynote will be. That’s where the State of the Union will be. Is there anything else that evening?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like there’s one other thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ADAs, right? Apple Design Awards.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s right. That’s going to be on Monday night, all at the Bill Graham Auditorium. And then the thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that used to be called the Beer Bash, now I guess it’s called the WWDC Bash. That

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used to be at Yerba Buena Gardens, which is this park just a couple of blocks from Moscone. Now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s also going to be at the Bill Graham Auditorium, so it’s not going to be outdoors anymore, and it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be off-site again as well. Well, further off-site anyway. This is all a bit of a change.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was a funny tweet by a friend of the show, Craig Hockenberry. I don’t know if he is being snarky or not because I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know enough about San Francisco, but it reads as follows, seriously, do not take a direct route from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your WWDC hotel to Bill Graham, get onto Market Street and pay attention from Powell to the Civic Center.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apparently because that area, which I guess the tenderloin, I’m sorry San Franciscans,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a little bit rough. So there’s transportation for the Beer Bash or the WWDC Bash.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t believe there’s any for the keynote on Monday.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the bigger venue makes sense in terms of wanting, we talked about before, wanting more press like they did

⏹️ ▶️ John with the watch event, where they just invite everybody, sure, come We will accept your coverage and we need more room

⏹️ ▶️ John for you So it’s WWC attendees and tons and tons of press come look at whatever it is. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to announce State of the Union Yeah, I feel like I mean the only reason they’re holding it there is because

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s where the keynote is You’re not gonna make everybody move from one location to the other But I imagine a lot of the crowd will disappear

⏹️ ▶️ John once they bring the engineering people up and start talking about techie stuff The bash.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why that’s not outdoors. It’s kind of nice when it was outdoors I mean that weird food

⏹️ ▶️ John and the band was kind of a mess because like half the crowd we pay attention to the band the other Half will be trying to hear each other

⏹️ ▶️ John over the sound of the band

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that’s I think that’s generous like that’s for me like the bash has always been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Uncomfortable because you have a band on one side and usually you know It’s a band that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The people there usually have heard of the band at least many of them have heard of the band

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or at least their popular Song like they oh, yeah, I know that one song

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s net but the people who are there are not there for the band it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s all that everybody see attendees they’re mostly to talk to each other and so you have this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco band off on one side playing on the stage playing mostly to people’s backs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there’s this huge like open area in front of the stage where nobody wants to stand because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s trying to get away from the band so they can hear each other talk so the band is playing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to effectively a bunch of people who would rather they turn the volume down and stop it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a terrible gig for the band like it it is so awkward and I feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so bad like like the band like that will finish a song and there will be literally like four people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco near them clapping and everyone else just like dead silent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not that bad

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco sometimes a

⏹️ ▶️ John little a little group of fans who are close

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco by who are actually

⏹️ ▶️ John into it I mean like the band is a separate thing but like I feel like the people who are not there for the band their

⏹️ ▶️ John needs are not served much better than the band. And when I think about it being in Bill Graham Auditorium,

⏹️ ▶️ John if there’s going to be a band, there’s no way to run from that band. There’s nowhere to hide. Like you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just… Yeah, to me, that’s why I’m curious about this, because it sounds like that would make all the problems worse.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, no, it might eliminate the problem in terms of if… The only reason you would possibly go to it is if you want to see the

⏹️ ▶️ John band, because you’re not going to be able to have any discussion with anybody in the giant auditorium with a huge sound system.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s not… I mean, it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John when you two played at the Watch event, it’s not like people were having conversations in the back of the room. You couldn’t hear yourself think.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know. We’ll see how it goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How great would it be if the band was U2 and they only played Songs of Innocence?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not a bad album, you know, first of all.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Although,

⏹️ ▶️ John the single they chose to play off of the Watch It event, eh, you know, not the best song. Anyway, it’s not going

⏹️ ▶️ John to be U2 again. But if it was, I would go. I didn’t even go

⏹️ ▶️ John to the bash last year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think I’ve seen you there in several years now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I usually have conflicts with other things. But, you know, the times I’ve gone to the bash, I have enjoyed

⏹️ ▶️ John it. You’ve hid way in the back and you go from circle of people to circle of people and you yell really loud until your

⏹️ ▶️ John voices don’t give out. But it’s like, it’s the one time I feel like I get to see everybody because everybody,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, all the people I know are hiding in the back in little clusters and I can find them. Whereas during the conference, if you happen

⏹️ ▶️ John to pick the same session as somebody, you see where they’re sitting, you can talk to them briefly before or after, but the bash is, you know, it’s a gathering

⏹️ ▶️ John of people and it’s like the end of the conference. And I have fond memories of the few years that I, that

⏹️ ▶️ John I went there. just not not ideal for the purpose that I would like to use

⏹️ ▶️ John it for.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think that’s like what most like I think most people are there to socialize. They’re not there to see a band.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Yerba Buena was already like it was crowded in there like even like trying to walk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco through and just like get from one side to the other or to get to the food things or to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know to leave or to enter. You were going it was such a crowd it was like walking through Times Square

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s you’re like trying to like wedge between people to like weave through like it was always very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco densely packed at least in recent years.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just look for Craig Hockenberry’s head and navigate

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco based

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey on that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s so true for those who don’t know Craig Hockenberry is approximately 13 feet tall about that. So the bash is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be at Bill Graham. I don’t know. I that’s a weird setup like you guys said and I do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel for the bands that play the bash because they usually whether or not you like the music generally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking the bands are good and they’re typically up and coming bands but just like Marco said it’s the worst gig in the world because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least half if not three quarters of the of the audience has their back to you because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they are not paying attention to you at all they just want to talk and god I feel for them. It was a lottery again this year

⏹️ ▶️ Casey obviously I have very mixed feelings about well no I don’t have mixed feelings about it I’m very sad at the way the lottery turned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out selfishly speaking but wait I just got in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seriously yeah I just got the email

⏹️ ▶️ John oh see I told you 25th you have until

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing for me. Sorry, Casey. That’s okay. So yeah, so the lottery.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Generally speaking, I think I’m pretty heavily in favor of it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the least crappy alternative I think that we have.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we talked about this around a year ago. I don’t think I’m going to spend the time to dig up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what episode or episodes it was in the show notes. It might have even been two years ago when this was a new thing. But anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think even as someone who has, as we record now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still does not have a ticket, I do think it’s the most fair way of doing things, and I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in support of it. Because even though I appreciated being Johnny on the Spot back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when there was at least a moment to order— to order. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just laugh because whenever I hear anybody say Johnny on the spot,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can only think of the brand of portable toilet of that name that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over my baseball fields in my youth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. I don’t even know what to make of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you say, I was Johnny on the spot, like, no, that’s not how I perceive that phrase.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, in any case, I was very quick to order a ticket back when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you had some amount of control over such things. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think that in the grand scheme of things, the lottery is the best way to do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John One other idea that I heard about Billy Graham being a larger venue is that they

⏹️ ▶️ John are anticipating a fall off in terms of attendance and potentially could invite

⏹️ ▶️ John more people. I have no idea if this is true, but this is a theory that I heard like so say they can invite 5000 people because that’s what Moscone

⏹️ ▶️ John holds 5000 people go to the keynote instead of the union and then the next day comes

⏹️ ▶️ John and 4000 people show up to go to sessions for the rest of the week, right? So if you have a larger venue

⏹️ ▶️ John for Billy Graham, you could have for the keynote, you could have invite more people

⏹️ ▶️ John and expect kind of like how you expect like no shows or whatever or you know, restaurant reservations, like essentially

⏹️ ▶️ John overbook it to account for the fact that a lot of people are just going to go to the first day’s

⏹️ ▶️ John festivities and will not appear every single day for the rest of the conference. That is a theory I heard. I don’t put

⏹️ ▶️ John much stock in it, but it is another potential benefit. Getting back to the lottery, like how do you deal with the

⏹️ ▶️ John fact that more people want to come than can go? You can move into a different city to a bigger venue. You can use more of Moscone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe this is like a weird hybrid solution. We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, I think so Billy Graham versus Bill Graham. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco assume this is different right because you keep saying Billy Graham that’s very different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is I this is somebody else

⏹️ ▶️ John right yeah I’m misspeaking in my typical way please please auto correct

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco what

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying to the place where the WWDC keynote is being held if I had said the wrong place just pretend

⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t say that pretend I said the right thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it appears that Bill Graham was a concert promoter and that’s probably who the who the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Auditorium was named after right and then Billy Graham is Is was not not

⏹️ ▶️ John a concert friends could have called him Billy. You don’t know. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Goodness, okay. I don’t even know where to go from here in any case

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the other thing that was interesting was I don’t recall how this was last year because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I Did get a ticket last year, but I’ll find out this year check your email. I don’t know just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John keep hitting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey refresh Yeah, that’s totally gonna work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If it makes you feel better, I also just got the email from Tesla advertising all the new features of the Model S that my car Doesn’t have.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh that makes me feel marginally better, but They’re going to be broadcasting Actually, let me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey read the quote from the website We will we will be live streaming sessions daily and posting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey videos of all our sessions throughout the week of the conference Did they live stream anything other than like Monday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last year? I had thought they were very very quick on the turnaround, but I don’t recall them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey live streaming regular sessions. Is that true?

⏹️ ▶️ John Live streaming that means they’ve opened the door to streakers

⏹️ ▶️ John Developers around the world are watching learning about core foundation and then all of a sudden from

⏹️ ▶️ John the corner runs right across the stage Oh my God, I don’t even know where to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go from here either. Was that guy English?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Of all the people who I’ve seen, you know, comment on the fact that they’re live streaming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this year, this concern is unique to you, John.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, it’s kind of like the same way, like, they got rid of the Q&A. It used to be that at the end of the sessions they would have Q&A

⏹️ ▶️ John and they got rid of that for it was just not constructive use of everyone’s time.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, it was terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what Q&A’s are like. But on the other hand, sometimes you’ve got some amusing or interesting questions.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was a time they bailed on the Q&A about the App Store because people were really angry and they didn’t want to deal with that. So they just

⏹️ ▶️ John ended it. And then, you know, so like Q&A is another example where you don’t know what you’re going to get. You have a prepared

⏹️ ▶️ John presentation and you give it and then anything can happen. And when you’re there at WWDC, sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John people yell something out from the audience that’s funny that doesn’t make it into the video because they edited it out or they edited

⏹️ ▶️ John out the little aside. usually people being excited about a new API or a new parameter or something very

⏹️ ▶️ John nerdy like that. This is one of the unique benefits of being there in person. Anyway, if they live stream it and someone was

⏹️ ▶️ John to yell something out in the audience, then that would make it to the live stream, but probably not to

⏹️ ▶️ John the recorded one that they edit down.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, Jeff. I mean, like the recorded ones, they edited out like applause and laughter and like any little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tiny slip up. They edit that out to the recorded ones. They are extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfun.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. Anything else on WWDC? Enjoy you two.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey get in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco plenty of

⏹️ ▶️ John time. You got three days, Casey, three whole days for Apple PR to listen to this podcast. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’m sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all Apple PR wants to do is listen to the Accidental Tech Podcast. That’s how they spend their Saturday

⏹️ ▶️ John night. What else do they have to do with their time?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, actually, it’s not even gonna be released. Yeah, Marco, you gotta release this tomorrow. Give me a chance here. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just kidding.

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John’s new hardware

Chapter John’s new hardware image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, while you were on vacation in California forgetting what reality was,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you bought some new hardware.

⏹️ ▶️ John I got to buy it in the official Apple store. I don’t know what you call it. It’s the one at one

⏹️ ▶️ John infinite loop. They have a little Apple store

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there.

⏹️ ▶️ John The company store. I’m told that it used to look very different, but now it just looks like a regular Apple store.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it used to have like racks of clothes in it and stuff and you can buy like mugs and silly things like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I never went to it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is that all gone? I’ve only seen the old one. I haven’t seen the new one.

⏹️ ▶️ John just looks like an apple store it’s a bunch of tables it’s got a big screen on two of the walls it’s really neat have you seen what these screens i don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know how they work it’s like a cloth type thing i assume it’s rear projection or something uh anyway can you

⏹️ ▶️ John still buy t-shirts and stuff they do have t-shirts they’re they’re displayed very strangely they’re like stretched

⏹️ ▶️ John over these little rectangles so you can’t tell that they’re shirts you just have to assume that the fabric stretched

⏹️ ▶️ John into that rectangle shape has sleeves and a place for your head to come out and stuff but

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah you can buy t-shirts in fact someone i saw someone there buying a lot of t-shirts and I was just adding up how much they must cost because each

⏹️ ▶️ John one of those t-shirts is surely like 30 bucks or something. Anyway. Oh yeah, they’re not well priced. I meant to

⏹️ ▶️ John buy it, buy something before I left, but as the date approached, you’re worried

⏹️ ▶️ John that the shipping’s gonna come and you’re gonna be on a plane. I’m like, you know what, I’m going there. I can

⏹️ ▶️ John just go to Apple and get it. So I did. I got myself a normal size

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad Pro and a pencil and the smart cover and I got the back

⏹️ ▶️ John silicone cover thing as well. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I also got a replacement iPad from my son. He got the Air. This is his combined birthday present with

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of other things. Replacing his iPad 2 that he’s destroyed, utterly destroyed. So hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ John now that he’s older and a little bit wiser he will not utterly destroy this iPad but it’ll be a big

⏹️ ▶️ John upgrade from his non-retina iPad 2 that he’s been using. the pro I mean as

⏹️ ▶️ John you would imagine upgrading from an iPad 3 is fantastic everything is fast and

⏹️ ▶️ John beautiful and the screen is amazing I left true tone on I you know I tried the little demo of it on and

⏹️ ▶️ John off I was worried that it would bother me that I would notice but I don’t and I think it’s great and I think

⏹️ ▶️ John that screen is amazing and I’m really happy about it the silicone back thing I don’t know what you call the case

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the only question mark I have it on now it’s only the back so it’s not the front the smart

⏹️ ▶️ John cover I have on the front the back and front fit together really nicely but I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John which looks neat when it’s all closed up but it makes it harder to open you have to sort of find where the edge is this doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John you know with the smart cover you can kind of do that smart cover thing that I think everyone unconsciously does where you can slide

⏹️ ▶️ John out the smart cover slightly to get it poking off the edge of the iPad and then pull it up with your thumb you know I’m talking about

⏹️ ▶️ John with the case that kind of seats together it’s a little bit harder to get the edge and when you’re holding it of course it’s a little lip

⏹️ ▶️ John around the whole thing and of two minds on the lip. It is

⏹️ ▶️ John bad in that it’s, you know, it’s a little ridge where once it was smooth, but it is good coming from the iPad 3 in

⏹️ ▶️ John that I wish the borders around the iPad were a little bit bigger for thumb gripping. And that little ridge

⏹️ ▶️ John gives an extra grippy area to make up for the fact that the sides, when held in portrait orientation, are not as wide.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, and also it does, like, it doesn’t block the speakers. There are little holes in the case for the, for the four speakers to come

⏹️ ▶️ John out, but I wonder if it’s affecting the audio quality. Although the audio quality is so, again, so much better

⏹️ ▶️ John than this stupid one little tinny speaker on my iPad 3, it’s amazing. I heartily

⏹️ ▶️ John recommend not upgrading your iOS device for however many years. I kept that iPad 3 because

⏹️ ▶️ John wow, what an upgrade.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, you’ve also like, if you look at the iPad lineup in retrospect, they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all pretty good. Like there really weren’t any bad iPads. But if you had to pick one as the worst

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad ever released, it’s the iPad 3.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would say the iPad 4, I think the iPad 4 is worse. Because here’s why. No,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco what?

⏹️ ▶️ John Where iPad 4 was the iPad 3, but with a faster processor and the lightning port, right? Yeah, but-

⏹️ ▶️ John But you had to wait later to get that. You got the iPad 3, it was the first Retina one, and you feel like, I

⏹️ ▶️ John waited, it’s what I did. I waited a really long time. I went in to buy them when they’re Retina, and I bought it when it was Retina. When the 4 came out,

⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t feel bad, because one came out that was slightly faster and had a lightning port. I felt good that I had the Retina one,

⏹️ ▶️ John while for the three months, there were people waiting for the 4. And the battery life has been great. And like, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John the iPad 3 is a great iPad, I feel like. Yes, it was big and it was hot, but.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but you know, like I said, like, none of the iPads have been really bad. But just like, you know, if you had to pick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one as the worst, I think everybody would agree the iPad 3 was the worst of these pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John good products. I would pick the Mini with the two internals I think was worse, because you

⏹️ ▶️ John have to account for the time that it was released. The Mini with the two internals was released after the 2, but it was as

⏹️ ▶️ John slow as the 2, and it was non-retina, and I think that was the dog of the iPad line. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve enjoyed my iPad 3, it served me well. That’s a reasonable counter-argument. It served me well,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I think this iPad is gonna go down as one of the really good ones because it is, it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ John impressive and it’s a big step up from the other

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco ones. I haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ John really used the Pencil yet, so I don’t know what I’m gonna use the Pencil for. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John debating trying to use it for navigation now that all of the people fought for my right to use it for

⏹️ ▶️ John navigation. All right, well, maybe I’ll try it for that. I just bought it because, I mean, I’ve used it in the store and

⏹️ ▶️ John everything, I know what it’s like, but I just bought it because it supports it and I’ll surely find something do with it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if not I’ll have this neat little accessory. Yeah I’m enjoying it. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ John and what I didn’t enjoy was iTunes. Nobody enjoys iTunes. I brought my iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John 3 with me on the trip expecting to do it at full encrypted iTunes backup

⏹️ ▶️ John and then plug in the new iPad and restore my encrypted iTunes backup onto it. And so basically just what I had in

⏹️ ▶️ John my iPad 3 now is on my new iPad Pro. That seems like it should work.

⏹️ ▶️ John It has worked for me in the past. I did the backup from the iPad 3 to the computer that I brought with me,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that worked fine. And then I tried to restore onto the iPad Pro, and that did not work fine. It would take

⏹️ ▶️ John a really long time, halfway through, an error would occur, then the iPad Pro would reboot,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I tried it many different times, and many different permutations across reboots, restarting

⏹️ ▶️ John both devices, trying different techniques to, you know, redoing the backups. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John it just never worked. I spent many many hours trying to get iTunes to restore onto this. I had to eventually resort to to

⏹️ ▶️ John an iCloud backup and everyone knows what that’s like. You lose half your stuff that you had there. I had to re-sign into

⏹️ ▶️ John all my Slack things. You don’t get any of your passwords saved, so you have to re-enter all that information

⏹️ ▶️ John and it takes a year and a day to put all your apps back on. So, good old iTunes, screwed me

⏹️ ▶️ John one last time. And will continue to because the next time I get an iOS device, if I have a

⏹️ ▶️ John choice between doing an encrypted backup and getting all those things and doing it the iCloud way with the current limitations, I’ll still

⏹️ ▶️ John try the iTunes way, but that was not fun.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m glad you got the new hardware, and I’m glad you like it. I mean, you’ve been waiting a long, long, long time. Did you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get LTE?

⏹️ ▶️ John I did.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey On Verizon, or did you just get the Apple SIM one, or?

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t have a choice when you buy it. You just say with cellular, and that’s what you get. You get with cellular, and

⏹️ ▶️ John so mine has cellular, and during the setup, it was trying to tell me,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hey,

⏹️ ▶️ John hook it up to it, but I’m like, you know, I’ll add it to my Verizon account when I go.

⏹️ ▶️ John To WWC, which people may ask me, why would you bother doing that? doesn’t every place have Wi-Fi and you have an

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone. Every place does have Wi-Fi, but Wi-Fi is not made to support 3,000

⏹️ ▶️ John nerds with a million devices, and so the Wi-Fi is usually not particularly healthy.

⏹️ ▶️ John Tethering, in my experience, has not worked particularly reliably. The most reliable

⏹️ ▶️ John way to get any kind of internet access, in the middle of Moscone anyway, with a bunch of other nerds, in my

⏹️ ▶️ John experience, has been Verizon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. I bought, I’ve had I think four iPads and this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last, the prior one to this one and the one I got for Christmas, both of them have been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with cellular and I couldn’t agree with you more that that’s the way to do it in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey general. I mean, it is like $130 more money, so it is fairly expensive, but I really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey prefer to have an onboard cellular connection if I so desire, even in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey general, just even outside WWDC. And then when you’re in WWDC, holy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crap, It’s so much better being on any cellular network than it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is being on the WWDC Wi-Fi, particularly Keynote Day. But I’m not gonna have to worry about that this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey year.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t know that, you don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well also,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in so many ways, it just makes sense to bring your own connection places.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not only is it generally more consistent and more reliable, it’s also more secure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You don’t have to join somebody’s crazy Wi-Fi. If you’re using some kind of VPN software, that’s a little bit different,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like most people, and we like to think that everything is done over HTTPS,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s not still, there’s still a lot of things that aren’t, so I think for most people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using a tethered connection is way more secure than using some hotel Wi-Fi or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Alrighty, well, any other thoughts on your new hardware?

⏹️ ▶️ John My color choices for the case were kind of difficult. I’ve been going with kind of gray or black in the

⏹️ ▶️ John past, I almost did it again, but I decided to go with midnight blue this time. I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco wish there were other

⏹️ ▶️ John colors that were more exciting. I really do like the red, but my wife has claimed the red and so do to to

⏹️ ▶️ John avoid in house confusion in house iOS device confusion. I I’ve been kicked out of red,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is exactly what I would buy. I wish there was like a better blue that looked more blue, but I went with the midnight

⏹️ ▶️ John blue. So at least it’s not black. Of course, I got the space gray device, but you can’t see any of the space

⏹️ ▶️ John gray

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all in a case now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, why did you get the silicon case? It seems so peculiar to me. I’ve never had a back case on any of my iPads.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, neither have I. This isn’t the first one, but it’s so much thinner than the iPad 3, as you can

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine. And I like the idea of a little bit of extra protection and a little bit of extra grip. And so far,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, my problems are not around back. My problems are like the ridge and opening it. And I’ll see, if it annoys

⏹️ ▶️ John me, I’ll take it off and, you know, lesson learned. But so far I’m keeping it in there. And I kind of like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Space gray in front, party in the back.

⏹️ ▶️ John No,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s not space

⏹️ ▶️ John gray in the front. You messed that up. It’s black in the front.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God. Well, so I’m curious. So you know, like if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you if you’re a beer person, you have undoubtedly heard from somebody who has ever drank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beer before that. Oh, well, you have to go have Guinness at the Guinness Brewery in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ireland. It’s so much better there and honestly, having done that, I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the same. Then please don’t email me all of Ireland

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I wonder like should the should the iPad that you buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at one infinite loop at the company store should that be like a little bit better than all the other all the other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPads should it be like should it like you know smell fresher or should it be like 5% faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t you feel like you should have gotten something

⏹️ ▶️ John special

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah no the CPU the CPU is 5 megahertz It’s faster, yeah. Yeah. Didn’t tell you that? No, mine

⏹️ ▶️ John has four gigs of RAM. Yeah. Wow. No, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s about the same. And the only difference is I think the Apple Store was a little bit less crowded when

⏹️ ▶️ John I went in. Like when I got in there, I felt like, wow, this is actually pretty empty for an Apple Store. But

⏹️ ▶️ John by the time I was done with my transaction and picking everything out and getting everything, everything all packaged up, that

⏹️ ▶️ John store was mobbed. So I think I just came before the rush.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, a lot of times, they’ll have like tour buses that stop there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t know what I did see a company tour. Like it was a bunch of people in suits. I think they were being led around

⏹️ ▶️ John by someone from Apple. Like we have them at our place too. Important people come and they want to show them like on a big

⏹️ ▶️ John tour and all the people are all dressed up like they’re executives from some other company. So I saw one group like

⏹️ ▶️ John that. And then just a bunch of other people that came in a big mob after me. The other advantage is that the

⏹️ ▶️ John parking lots at Apple are filled with interesting cars. Both the visitor parking lots and the employee parking lots are filled

⏹️ ▶️ John with very interesting cars. Much more interesting cars than at the Natick Mall. Sorry, Nantic Mall, or the Chestnut Hill Mall, for that

⏹️ ▶️ John matter. Wow. Yeah, but lots of hybrids, lots of electric vehicles.

⏹️ ▶️ John One of the ones, did I take a picture of it and show you, the hybrid Panamera? No, I don’t think you did. It could have been one of those $260,000 models.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all black with fancy wheels, just tons of

⏹️ ▶️ John neat cars.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Excellent. Yeah, I’ve never been to Infinite Loop. I have always had something else

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do back when they used to do the buses at WWDC, like not the official Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ones. There was an organizer, or like a group of people that would organize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a bus trip down to Infinite Loop. And I just always had something else to do. I always visited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a good friend of mine. And so I’ve never, ever, ever been. And Marco, you said you’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been, John, obviously you just went. And I’m kind of jealous. I’d like to see it sometime, especially before it goes away forever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was organized by a friend of everybody, Jeff LaMarche. He organized those pilgrimage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bus tours. I don’t know if anybody still does that. But yeah, those were kind of fun.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s not like it’s going away, but once Campus Two opens up, I imagine a lot of the important things that are currently at One Infinite

⏹️ ▶️ John Loop will be moved to Campus Two. Like Tim Cook’s office is somewhere there at One Infinite Loop, and I assume it

⏹️ ▶️ John will move to Campus Two, as will many other people. Maybe the Apple Store will move, I don’t know. But this is the last

⏹️ ▶️ John moments that One Infinite Loop is the face of Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Hopefully I’ll get to see it sometime. Maybe, well, potentially I’ll have a lot of free time that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey week, so maybe I’ll rent a car and go check it out. Oh, I’m sad again.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you a lot to our three sponsors this week, Betterment, Ring, and Fracture. and we will see you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

Ending theme

Chapter Ending theme image.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause

⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, oh it was accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John And you can find the show notes at

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ John C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss,

⏹️ ▶️ John M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, tech podcast so long

Post-show: Canonical bagels

Chapter Post-show: Canonical bagels image.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh Did you reload your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your email app I’ve been I’ve been looking at my bank and then telling myself You’re just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jinxing it stop looking waiting five minutes looking again. You’re jinxing yourself stop looking

⏹️ ▶️ John Stop jinxing yourself

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly stop hitting yourself stop jinxing yourself to stop all the things and no no dice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said Casey said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if you want to have a bit of a neutral if we’ll unless we have something else to talk about about. I’m talking about my bagel post.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah, first of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, so we have to cover your bagel post. So John, you blogged for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first time in how long? Over a

⏹️ ▶️ John year, slightly over a year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay, the content of your blog post is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bulleted list. Can you explain this blog post

⏹️ ▶️ John please? So on this podcast, it’s not called Developing Perspective and not called under the radar but is

⏹️ ▶️ John called top four some people one of whom is here talked about

⏹️ ▶️ John their top four bagel varieties or flavors and I listened to this podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John on the way out to San Francisco I thought I had prepared myself

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey one person

⏹️ ▶️ John involved in the podcast grew up on Long Island like I did and the other person was Marco but I thought I felt

⏹️ ▶️ John like I was ready I was not ready for the list that would appear I could not have

⏹️ ▶️ John predicted these lists they were just more upsetting and fantastical

⏹️ ▶️ John and unexpected than I could have imagined. I paid for the in-flight Wi-Fi just so I

⏹️ ▶️ John could complain to Marco directly about this podcast. And I vowed that when I got done

⏹️ ▶️ John with this vacation I was going to blog again and what I was going to blog was the list of

⏹️ ▶️ John canonical bagel flavors. And that’s exactly what I did. I made a blog post

⏹️ ▶️ John that lists the canonical bagel flavors. And I feel like this needed to be done for

⏹️ ▶️ John posterity, that Google will spider it, that will archive it somewhere, that

⏹️ ▶️ John someday aliens will dig up our civilization when we’re long gone and find this blog

⏹️ ▶️ John post that is succinct to the point, not a lot of dancing around, it’s just a list that

⏹️ ▶️ John lists the canonical bagel flavors. And I feel much better having done it, and yes, it happens to be about a year since

⏹️ ▶️ John last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. Yeah, so obviously I have some nitpicks here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The flavors you’ve listed are noticeably missing some of the ones that we mentioned during our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are some that we even said during the show were not canonical old school bagels like the Asiago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheese bagel. You know, that’s…

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think you need to say old school. Here’s, here’s… I didn’t want to put a lot of commentary in this because I don’t think it’s necessary for

⏹️ ▶️ John the post, but for the purposes of the podcast, there is a distinction to be made between this is not

⏹️ ▶️ John a bagel versus this is a canonical bagel flavor. You understand? distinction

⏹️ ▶️ John like the sort of, uh, you know, well, let’s make up. I’m trying to make

⏹️ ▶️ John up one that doesn’t actually exist and I don’t know if I’m going to succeed, but let’s say the cheesecake bagel

⏹️ ▶️ John is not a bagel.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I guarantee that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exists somewhere in the Midwest.

⏹️ ▶️ John Someone has making that right. But there are bagels on this list that are bagels that are just not

⏹️ ▶️ John among the canonical bagel flavors. There were some difficult decisions to make. I’m not gonna lie. I thought I was going to rattle this thing off.

⏹️ ▶️ John Push came to shove. I had to make some very hard calls to you that some people are upset about and I understand their

⏹️ ▶️ John upset in this. The big one I feel like is garlic. Garlic bagel is a bagel, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah. It just missed the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco list. Well, so I’m curious. So like you have, obviously you have plain, poppy, sesame, everything. Those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for bagel places, those are always like the top four that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John always sell. Not on your list.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Not

⏹️ ▶️ John on your list, Mr. Asiago cheese. Oh, that was Tiff, sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By sales volume, actually I bet hot sugar cheese is up there for stores that do sell it, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those in the Midwest. But- Not a bagel, by the way. No, it’s still, look, so anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are some inconsistencies I think in your list. So obviously plain, poppy, sesame, everything, those have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be on every bagel list for, because just by sales volume people have voted and that’s what always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John goes there.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, that’s not how this list works.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco This

⏹️ ▶️ John list does not work by sales volume.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but so I’m curious, you’ve included onion and salt but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not garlic. That seems inconsistent. That’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a tough call. Here’s the, here’s the, there is a, if you go through this list, this list is like a little story,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? It’s not, it’s an unordered list. It’s OL or it’s, it’s a no UL, right? It’s not OL, it’s UL,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? It’s an unordered list, but there is an order. So I’m not, plain is there, but it’s not next to a number one, next to

⏹️ ▶️ John a bullet point. But this is the reason it’s at the top, right? It’s you start off and you feel like, you know, all right, plain

⏹️ ▶️ John poppy sesame. And I spent a long time thinking about whether poppy or sesame would come second,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? cinnamon raisin which Marco keeps omitting for some strange reason

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco further down the list and for by sales volume by the way I think I think sesame out does poppy that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not sales volume does not factor into

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think sales volume it would be plain everything sesame poppy

⏹️ ▶️ John it depends on where where it’s being sold and who’s buying all right so cinnamon raisin here

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey overall off

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit and then you’ve got everything and you got egg everything why is egg

⏹️ ▶️ John everything why is egg everything even on this list why is is that not next to egg why is it under everything

⏹️ ▶️ John why does cinnamon raisin come between it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was gonna nitpick your inclusion of egg everything as well because I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think on a list that’s this restrictive and this short I don’t think egg everything belongs on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco list

⏹️ ▶️ John I know but like so here’s I spent a long time I spent the whole vacation thinking about this right

⏹️ ▶️ John why is it why is egg everything on listing garlic is not it just this is what it comes down to these are the canonical

⏹️ ▶️ John flavors garlic does not make the cut egg Egg everything does. Egg everything is the most borderline. If I

⏹️ ▶️ John had to delete one, I would delete egg everything. Right? If I had to make the list one shorter.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, but no, but this is it. Onion, onion makes it. Salt make it. Pumpernickel. People don’t talk about pumpernickel,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s there. I talked about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pumpernickel.

⏹️ ▶️ John You gotta talk about rye, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not- I said the rye family of flavors, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John includes- Yeah, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t- like in your typical one, I’m trying to pick 17 different bagels for your item

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number four. Pumpernickel is a rye.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but you have to pick one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco includes rye marble and pumpernickel in the pumper in the rye

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John family of bagels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because most places don’t have all three of those and so if I want that I will pick whichever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of those they have that looks the best

⏹️ ▶️ John you also make the one that you didn’t know the name of which was like the one with oats on the outside that’s brown mm-hmm

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah what is that called according to you even though it isn’t on this list apparently unless it’s called egg everything

⏹️ ▶️ John the reason it’s not a list it doesn’t have a name some people call it multi-grain Some people call it like wheat

⏹️ ▶️ John or grain like that. It’s not even no it’s it’s not like the list Does not make the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey list. I have a question. What is it that makes? Bagels in New York

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Montreal of the Montreal is the loose definition of bagel What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco is it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey both of those what is it? What is it that makes both of those bagels so good?

⏹️ ▶️ John I I Don’t know There’s been a lot of research about this of

⏹️ ▶️ John is it the water is it the starter is it the what I think I? Mean obviously this is the basics like cooking technique

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you don’t boil your bagels You’re not making bagels, and that just forget it. They’re totally off the rails there But

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean this is recipe ingredients and preparation and and caring about what you make I mean like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco think about lenders

⏹️ ▶️ John bagels like lenders bagels or supermarket bagels it made in in techniques that

⏹️ ▶️ John That I have to scale up to huge volumes real bagels They make them in the morning and you come and buy them and as

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco pointed out on the show if you come in the Afternoon, they’re not as good and that’s just the kind of product You’re not gonna ship it in a truck

⏹️ ▶️ John across the country frozen. Like it’s just it’s not gonna be the same thing I don’t know why Montreal has a particular

⏹️ ▶️ John bagel culture, but it’s like bread like why is bread good in some places better? Why do you have like bad supermarket bread

⏹️ ▶️ John and some bakeries have really good bread and the bakeries have really good bread Where do you get that bread and when it’s a time

⏹️ ▶️ John of day and they make it every day and you know That’s that’s what it comes down to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you’re wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Here’s the thing The chat room is wrong, you’re wrong. I’m really disappointed in everyone. Though the origins

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of bagels are somewhat obscure, says the origin of truth Wikipedia, it is known that they were widely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey consumed in the Eastern European Jewish communities from the 17th century. The reason

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that New York bagels and Montreal air quote bagels air quote are so good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is because of the significant Jewish population in both of those cities. Of the three of us,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think we can unequivocally decide which one of us is the most Jewish of the three of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us, and that is yours truly. And the fact that you two are arguing about something that you are completely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unqualified to discuss, I just think it’s hysterical.

⏹️ ▶️ John False. You didn’t grow up in New York, the New York metro area. You know nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about bagels, Jon Snow.

⏹️ ▶️ John Really? Really. You know nothing about them. It doesn’t come as part of your genetics. You don’t make bagels for a living,

⏹️ ▶️ John and even if you did, you don’t make them in the New York metro area. People who know food know it from where they grew

⏹️ ▶️ John up with it. where the knowledge of the food comes from and not from any sort of not in your DNA

⏹️ ▶️ John and never mind like the heritage it’s like me claiming to know stuff about Italian food I know nothing about Italian food I’ve never been to Italy

⏹️ ▶️ John I know Italian American food because I’m Italian American and those immigrants came to where I grew up

⏹️ ▶️ John and they sold food there and I have I fully expect the New York metro area bagels had nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John to do with whatever bagels you’re talking about in the 17th century from Europe who knows what those were like all I know is what they’re like in the New York metro

⏹️ ▶️ John area.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you forget that I spent a large portion of my childhood either in New York State

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or in Connecticut literally so close to New York I could walk and get there. That’s how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John close

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey was.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s what people who are not in the New York metro area say about it. I was in Connecticut, that’s like New York.

⏹️ ▶️ John We have Frank Pepe’s. It’s just, no.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So two things. Number one, I think all of our cultural backgrounds aside, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think this is one of those things where you have to pull a GIF slash George Lucas and just say, you know what,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though academically you should be right on this, you’re not. And secondly, only one of us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still lives in the New York metro area.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, Marco, the only thing you can lord over us, Marco, is that you have access to good bagels.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And believe me, I am sufficiently

⏹️ ▶️ John jealous of that. Believe me. And sometimes when we discuss, you know, like we

⏹️ ▶️ John were talking about, like, what if Marco would ever move someplace other than New York? And I would say, why would he do that? He would

⏹️ ▶️ John be leaving behind pizza and bagels. Why Why would he ever move? I would hate you so much if you ever moved. I’d be like, you’re throwing

⏹️ ▶️ John it away! You’ve got it right there! You’ve got a house, you’ve got a Tesla, you’ve got a kid, you’ve got bagels and pizza,

⏹️ ▶️ John why would you ever go anywhere? Oh, self-employment tax, blah blah blah. No, just, it’s worth it for the bagels.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a reason I still tolerate all of New York’s BS, because I like a lot of the stuff here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Believe me, New York has no shortage of BS and hostility that encourages people to flee.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those of us who are still here which is one of us are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here for good reasons good round malted reasons

⏹️ ▶️ John to make it so that no one who listens to this podcast ever actually has to go to this blog post after the list it

⏹️ ▶️ John says also be allies

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah which I have no problem including be allies although I’m not sure I would call the the be Ali

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bagel flavor it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not it says also it’s a separate list also be allies

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but the title of the entire post is canonical bagel flavors and includes list

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and then it says

⏹️ ▶️ John these are the canonical bagel flavors and it gives a list and it says also

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco be allies it’s trying to say

⏹️ ▶️ John also be allies exist and they are good and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John they are

⏹️ ▶️ John good although I’m not so sure about your supermarket be allies I feel like something is up here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you should next time you’re here I’ll have you try one you can tell me how it compares I have had be allies from like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good bagel bakeries and stuff and they’re good too, but the supermarket ones I think are just better than the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones I’ve had. Now, granted, I haven’t looked very hard at like what’s the best bialy in Westchester or the city.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I haven’t looked that hard. But the bialys I’ve had at bagel places have not been substantially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better or better at all than the ones I get from my local grocery store. Now, I know that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably, I’m probably missing something big here because that shouldn’t be the

⏹️ ▶️ John case. I mean, maybe they’re buying them from a local bagel place. It could be the same. You have to know where they’re sourced from. It could

⏹️ ▶️ John be the same thing. It could be the bagel place that goes into the supermarket and sells them. But anyway, I’m not a big

⏹️ ▶️ John fan of Bialy’s, but I always felt like when we would get bagels growing up, there’d be one

⏹️ ▶️ John or two Bialy’s thrown in. They’d get eaten. You know? It’s just in the mix.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Where do we go from here?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John How can we, I mean…

⏹️ ▶️ John We gotta go to Margo’s house and buy bagels.

Post-show: Tesla perception

Chapter Post-show: Tesla perception image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, what were we going to talk about the Tesla? I was in a Tesla earlier today.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I just had a minor update, but it’s not time sensitive. So you can, let’s hear about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your time in a Tesla.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it really was uneventful. I went from work to my favorite local barbecue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey joint and then back. And I was a passenger, but it was good.

⏹️ ▶️ John Cool. All right. Were you in the back seat or front seat?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I was in the front seat. I fiddled with the comically absurdly ridiculously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oversized touch screen. I learned that Tesla

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has its own Pandora-esque service.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, no, it’s Slacker.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, whatever it is. Okay. I learned the web browser is being used by enterprising

⏹️ ▶️ Casey developers to make kind of sort of third-party mega air quotes, apps mega

⏹️ ▶️ Casey air quotes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, the browser’s terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but I forget what underscore had on his, but it was something that like integrated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey traffic and issue reporting from Waze with the onboard GPS because it just uses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the HTML5 location API. And I don’t recall exactly what the URL was. I don’t recall exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what it was called, but it would show a map with the stuff that Waze reported. And Waze is very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good about having up to the second accurate reports on traffic conditions and obstructions

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and police officers and things of that nature. So he had that up on his web browser. Well, he didn’t have the web

⏹️ ▶️ Casey browser up at all, but when I was fiddling with it while he was driving, that’s the last thing he had had up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on his web browser. That was pretty neat. I don’t know, it’s impressive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, I tried when I first got it, I actually tried to see, can I use that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as an overcast interface? And the basic answer is no, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is no ability for the browser to play audio. I assume for safety

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or DOT regulations, they’ve disabled audio and video elements from playing in the built-in browser.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But video makes sense, audio I don’t think does, because there’s lots of other ways to play audio from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the internet in the Tesla, so I don’t know. Fair enough, so what’s your update? So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just, I wanted to put somewhere, and it was either gonna be a blog post or here, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here is probably the better place for it, just the sheer difference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in how other people seem to be perceiving me having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Tesla, like people in the world, my neighbors, things like that. So, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco coming from a loud, black, sporty BMW

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a silent, red, environmental future car,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like the way, like, so I know, like, I know immediately, like, my neighbors the people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the block hated hearing my loud car and they probably thought I was a jerk for driving it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And even when I wasn’t going fast, it sounded like I was going fast and I would imagine that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t win me any favors around the block. And nobody ever commented,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if I was getting out of the car or if somebody saw me in it with the windows down or in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco parking lot, nobody ever commented positively about the BMW except

⏹️ ▶️ Marco occasionally like some like dude in his 20s. Hey nice, you know something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that, but that would be it. Car

⏹️ ▶️ John guys, car guys look appreciatively. I look at appreciatively at the M cars that I see.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sure, yeah, so do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still, but anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But people would make snarky comments about the loudness

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it or whatever?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely, yeah, neighbors and yeah, like you know, it was noticed and was generally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not appreciated by many of the people around it. And I just kind of like, you just kind of get the feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like people think I’m a jerk by driving this car. You know, because you kind of seem like a jerk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you drive a loud.

⏹️ ▶️ John You think that Tesla is helping with that? Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hurting? Right, so I expected, you know, this might be, you know, a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worse in some ways, especially because now it’s red, so it’s more, it’s kind of more in your face. But,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco turns out, the way people treat somebody driving a red Tesla is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way more positive than the way they treat people driving a loud black BMW. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all, I have gotten so many questions from people about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This has been the biggest, and this is kind of what I wanted to talk about. It’s like, the amount of questions I’ve gotten has been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shocking, and most of the questions are roughly in the same small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco group of buckets, but what’s interesting, I think, is just like, when you’re driving a loud black sports car,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even in an area like where I live, there’s lots of BMWs, But even in an area with lots

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of other lab-lacked

⏹️ ▶️ John sports cars. M5 is not a sports car, point of order.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco OK. I’m not sure I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John agree with that, but OK. You don’t agree

⏹️ ▶️ John with that? The M5 is not a sports car. It’s a sports sedan.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey agree with that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know if Coops cornered the market on good cars.

⏹️ ▶️ John You guys can be happy to be wrong. It is not a sports car. That’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I tell you what, whether or not it is a sports car, and I know Marco said this, but I think I should double down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this. Like it is really loud, like stunningly loud for a stock,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely unmodified car. And you could absolutely hear Marco coming from several

⏹️ ▶️ Casey houses away, if not like a block or two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John away. Yeah, I think it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey block. And that’s not even necessarily because he tends to drive quickly, just in general.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like if you’ve heard a loud car and you’re thinking to yourself, oh yeah, whatever. I’ve heard a loud car, they’re not that loud.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, really. This thing is very loud, or the M5 was very,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very loud.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like that. It made a good sound on the outside.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, me too. Me too. I’m not complaining. I’m not complaining at all. I’m just saying, if you’ve never heard an M5,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would be surprised about how loud it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and all the M cars are tuned specifically to be loud. Like the 1M was that loud. All the M3s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are that loud. Like that’s just, it’s, that’s intentional, you know? So anyway, and, and I didn’t, you know, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wouldn’t choose that. I didn’t have it because it was loud. I had it because it was fast. And it just so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happened that to get things that fast, you had to also get them loud because that’s just the way they were sold, because most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who buy them want them to be that loud. Anyway, so now I have this silent car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is, I guess, more friendly. And so I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting tons of compliments on it from strangers, oftentimes, or people who have never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco commented about my car before. When I get out of the parking lot, I’ll have questions from people like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that, what is that? Is that electric? Is that a Tesla? And so first of all, Tesla

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a level of awareness in the public that is way higher than I expected.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s almost like an Apple level of awareness. The amount of questioning I get and the excitement people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have over it is almost like when the iPhone first came out. If you had the very first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone, you’d have people would see you with it and be like, oh my God, is that the iPhone? And they’d

⏹️ ▶️ Marco start asking you a couple questions about it or they’d wanna see it. That’s how people are with the Tesla. Everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems to know, first of all, that there’s a super fast one, and so I always have to kind of say, no, I didn’t get that one. So, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re always like, oh, is this the insane one? No, I didn’t get the insane one. It’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a fast car,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so I didn’t get that one. And then- Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how the mighty have fallen. I know, right? And then, and then everyone also knows about autopilot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like this, and this was, this was kind of surprising because I didn’t think it made that big of a splash and or it was that big of a deal. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s like, is this the one that can steer itself? And again, these are like not necessarily like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car nerds. It’s like, like regular people know. And they’re asking about this, and they ask, oh, how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does it go on the highway? Can you fill it up? And some people ask, is there also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a gas engine? And blah, blah, blah. So I’m doing a lot of explaining. And I assume, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you were one of the people who had the first Prius, I assume that you got a lot of questioning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. Even if you had one of the first electric vehicles that were pure electric,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the Nissan Leaf or something like that, I would imagine you’d occasionally get a question from somebody,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they saw you plugging it in, and so that would kind of call out that this is something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different. But this is like, when I’m just driving around, everyone just is really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco curious about this car, and I’m getting so many questions. The one thing that seems to blow people’s mind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most, well, two things. Number one, how much space there is inside, if they look inside. Number two,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big thing that blows everyone’s mind is that superchargers are free.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mm,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interesting. That idea, you know, it’s just like how, how things being free make people’s brains

⏹️ ▶️ Marco explode. I’m witnessing that. Whenever, because they will inevitably ask, how do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you do it on long highway drives, can you do it? And I’ll mention the superchargers. And they always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ask, oh, but how much does it cost to fill up with those? And so, oh, it’s free, it’s included.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they’re like, what? And they cannot, it blows their mind that you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fill up for free, even if it takes 45 minutes. It blows their mind that this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just free, Even though, if they charge for it, it would probably only be like $2. It wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a lot of money if they’re charging whatever a fair rate would be for that electricity. But just the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea of that being free just blows people’s minds. It’s really interesting, and I’ve never gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the level of strangers coming up to me about anything that I have about this car.

⏹️ ▶️ John So did you sell some Teslas, or did they eventually ask you how much it costs and then they run away?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I tend to not bring up the cost, and they don’t either. And so I, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also a lot of them know about the Model 3. A lot of them are like, oh yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heard about the new one, it’s gonna be a lot cheaper. So I’m telling you, like the level of like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco awareness, public awareness and public interest in this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco company is way off the charts compared to what I expected.

⏹️ ▶️ John So how old are the people who are asking these questions? Is it kids,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adults, really old people? I mean, there aren’t that many kids in this area, honestly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say… You’re not going to let the

⏹️ ▶️ John kids

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in there.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, well, yeah. Well, like, so say you arrive to get chicken salad and a Lamborghini. The five kids

⏹️ ▶️ John that are in your town would be talking to you about that car, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Probably. But yeah, no, I mean, like, most of the people asking are, I’d say, in their 40s to 60s. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like

⏹️ ▶️ John average who you would expect to see? Just the people that are there? I’m just wondering if it attracts it, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John the Tesla awareness, is it skewing young or old?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say it’s all over the map. Like the electricians who were here the other day, they’ve seen them before because they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have installed Tesla outlets for people before, but they were asking all sorts of questions about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it was an older guy and a younger guy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When I was getting lunch today, one of the clerks at the post office, who I knew from going in there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few times, she was in the parking lot. She’s like, oh my God, that’s your car? That’s beautiful. And she called

⏹️ ▶️ Marco her husband out of her car to come see it. is so interested in this car.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s not like, like, this is not the first Tesla in my neighborhood. There’s there’s at least four others that I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I see around on a regular basis. So like, it’s not and have for a while now. So it’s not like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially like the first one that’s been around. How much of a factor do you think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco color is? Certainly some, you know, because being a red car, but it’s not like, you know, there are other red cars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s it’s there’s lots of other red cars in town. It’s not like Ferrari red, it’s not like a bright

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cherry, it’s kind of like a medium red, it’s not like super intense. It doesn’t seem like it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be that visually catchy of a car. Like, it doesn’t look that unusual compared to other cars.

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of unusual cars when I was out in California, I saw for the first time i-3s

⏹️ ▶️ John which are everywhere there and are butt-ugly. Yes. And the Model X which are also all over there and are also butt-ugly.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have not seen an X yet in person. There was a lot of them, A lot of them in California do not like.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I can’t argue with

⏹️ ▶️ John that. Just as ungainly, I saw one in white. It literally looked like one of those, what

⏹️ ▶️ John do you call it? The, those whales that are white.

⏹️ ▶️ John Starts with a B maybe, chat room, help me out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Beluga? Casey’s BMW?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh-huh, I’m already hurting. You don’t need to stab me in the back too, you know. God,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a tough crowd tonight.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I’m sorry about your white car, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not, sorry about my lack of a ticket, but I’m not sorry about my white car. You should be. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sad. No, it

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t look like Moby Dick. Moby Dick was a sperm whale. I think, right? I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know. I don’t know if they say

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco in the book.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You think I actually read any of the books I’m supposed to read in school?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know. Do you like, Marco, having these people come up and ask you these questions? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey obviously there’s times when it’s convenient, times where it isn’t, but in the grand scheme of things, do you find it kind of neat,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or are you kind of like, dudes, leave me alone?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I don’t, I mean, so far it’s just kind of, it’s novel, you know, because I’ve never had anybody express that kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interest in the things I was driving in the chicken salad parking lot.

⏹️ ▶️ John So he’s going to print out laminated cards to just hand to people. As soon

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey as someone asks a question, ah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco here, take this card. Here’s an FAQ.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, ask me again in a year. It might have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gotten old by that point, but no, so far it’s just kind of cool. Like I,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I mean, environmental people who drive fun cars, who drive like, you know, like the first hybrids or the first EVs, like, you know, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people have had these questions for other owners before. And I’ve seen people write about it. And like, it seems like it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like, just kind of a fun thing of having these cars. I think what surprises me is that it’s still going on. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kind of thought we’d be past the stage where these things would be novel, but we’re not.