167: They’ve Opened the Door to Streakers25 Apr 2016
WWDC 2016 tickets and changes, the MacBook Two (?), and John’s vacation in California.
- John was on vacation in California
- WWDC 2016 tickets and considerations
- Follow-up on EV charging stations
- MacBook One update
- More on ad bumper sounds
- WWDC 2016 changes
- John buys new hardware
- Ending theme by Jonathan Mann
- John blogged!
- Others' perception of Tesla drivers
- Ring: Put your mind at ease and protect your home with the world's most advanced video doorbell.
- Betterment: Investing made better.
- Fracture: Photos printed in vivid color directly on glass. Use promo code ATP10 for 10% off your first order.
- Always on vacation 🖼️
- WWDC ticket status 🖼️
- Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP10) 🖼️
- Tesla vs. Level 2 EV chargers 🖼️
- MacBook Two? 🖼️
- Windows XP sounds 🖼️
- Sponsor: Betterment 🖼️
- WWDC changes this year 🖼️
- Sponsor: Ring Video Doorbell 🖼️
- John’s new hardware 🖼️
- Ending theme 🖼️
- Post-show: Canonical bagels 🖼️
- Post-show: Tesla perception 🖼️
Always on vacation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, are you, are you broke now? Did you get a ticket?
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, talk about on the show. Come on. That’s the show.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So how’s things going, John? How was your, uh, vacation in California?
⏹️ ▶️ John It was very, uh, Californian.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, so you didn’t, you didn’t really live in reality. Everywhere you went, you just dropped a hundred
⏹️ ▶️ Casey dollar bills like they were, like they were singles.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sometimes it felt like that. There were expensive things there, but, uh, overall, Everything
⏹️ ▶️ John worked out. I think I took every form of transportation Except for a taxi. I don’t even know if they still have those in San Francisco.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think they’ve been outlawed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so the vacation was good. You seem to hang out with Most of the friends of the internet that I can think of that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are in that neck of the woods
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we did all the touristy things that you can do in San Francisco. We you know did bus tours
⏹️ ▶️ John Did you like Alcatraz? Yeah went to Alcatraz rode on a cable car went to the
⏹️ ▶️ John really windy Street You know, did all the tourist things you can do. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that the tourist things in San Francisco are ride on a really bad road, take mass
⏹️ ▶️ Marco transit, and go to jail.
⏹️ ▶️ John I went to the woods too. And we went to beaches up and down the coast
⏹️ ▶️ John on the beach in Santa Cruz and some other beach that I don’t know where it is, but it’s got little tidal pools. Did the Pacific Ocean stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ John Went on a hike in Marin County. You know, just lots of things. We fit a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John in the short number of days we were there.
WWDC ticket status
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So as we record, it is Friday night, the 22nd. Um,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we should probably talk about the elephant in the room. Um, WWDC ticket announcements are starting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to trickle out as we record this. Uh, how’d it go for you, John?
⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, in the lead up to this, I had some issues that I had to deal with mostly of my own creation,
⏹️ ▶️ John but when you sign up for the lottery, it has the, this year I had the same message that I had. I think it was the same
⏹️ ▶️ John message that I had in previous years. Um, but at any rate, the same realities in previous years, which is
⏹️ ▶️ John if you enter the lottery and you win the lottery, they attempt to charge your credit
⏹️ ▶️ John card at the moment they have decided you’ve won the lottery. And if that charge doesn’t go through for some reason,
⏹️ ▶️ John they say, actually you have not won the lottery. We’re moving on to the next person. Which
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco is very bad.
⏹️ ▶️ John It happened to a lot of people in the past and Apple’s been pretty good about trying to go back and give
⏹️ ▶️ John them tickets later, but it’s a really terrible system in that if they pick your name out of the hat and is a winner
⏹️ ▶️ John of the lottery, They should give you a day or two to sort out the payment situation. Now
⏹️ ▶️ John why might your credit card reject it? Because your credit card company is fraud happy and it sees this big $1,600
⏹️ ▶️ John charge randomly on a card and I don’t know how their fraud detection works but if you trip your
⏹️ ▶️ John credit card company’s fraud detection Apple will give your ticket to somebody else. They won’t say well
⏹️ ▶️ John you got rejected but we’ll give you 24 to 48 hours to sort it out with your credit card company. No they just move on immediately
⏹️ ▶️ John and so this year same message they said just wanted you to know that if we fail to charge your credit card we’re taking your ticket away
⏹️ ▶️ John and giving it to someone else which is terrible it’s just a terrible system it should be again 24 to 48 hours let
⏹️ ▶️ John the people sort out whether they can get it so I was afraid this would happen when I signed up I saw that the
⏹️ ▶️ John credit card I had in there is my traditional this is what I used to buy my max with credit card which also
⏹️ ▶️ John happens to be the traditional Apple cannot charge my credit card because the payment company rejected because
⏹️ ▶️ John it thinks it’s fraud I bought so many thousands of dollars for the maximum this one credit card same number it’s never been
⏹️ ▶️ John stolen on the internet it’s a miracle right and year after year every time I try to buy Apple equipment with it
⏹️ ▶️ John they market is fraud one of the things I suggest is hey Apple says this in their message you should call your credit card
⏹️ ▶️ John company and tell them to expect a $1,600 charge sometime in the next you
⏹️ ▶️ John know between the 22nd and the 25th from and they don’t even tell you the name I guess just from Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John computer so that’s what some people have done and again people have done
⏹️ ▶️ John it and call their credit card company and tell them, please don’t reject my card, there’s going to be a charge and the credit card company will say,
⏹️ ▶️ John yep, thumbs up, don’t worry, it’ll go through and that gets rejected because they’re credit card companies.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I think also like the whole thing about like calling your credit card company to like pre-approve a big transaction,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s kind of like the door close button on most elevators.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Their system is all like so advanced for fraud detection these days. Like I’m pretty sure like when you when you call
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most credit card companies and tell them like, oh, hey, whitelist this thing in the future that hasn’t even happened yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think they even can do anything about it because the system is based mostly on, like, do you have a pre-approval
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do you have an attempt for the charge? And then do we issue a commit for the charge?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if they don’t have even the attempt for the charge, I don’t think the people on the phone can even do anything about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s funny you bring that up because last year I saw that same message and the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The fear was put in me and I called my credit card company and I got on the phone with them and I was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like, hey, you know, I’d really like to try to get this charge pre-approved. It’s really important to me. And they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey basically in so many words said, yeah, that’s not a thing. We can’t do that. Goodbye, clunk.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this year I did the same thing and I called the credit card company and I took
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a different approach this time and I said, hey, there’s a really important charge that may or may not be going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey through and I’d really like to make sure that it doesn’t get held up, can you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pre-approve it or annotate my account in some way such that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s a note that this is acceptable?” And so I eventually got pushed to the fraud department, which
⏹️ ▶️ Casey makes sense because they’re the ones who would keep track of this thing, and I got on the phone with the woman and she had
⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, you know, okay, well, what are you trying to accomplish? Well, I’d like to pre-approve this thing. Well, you have to understand, like, there’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey lottery and if I win the lottery—wait, wait, you’re talking like some sort of gambling thing? No, no, no, no, no, it’s not gambling.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s all right, here’s the thing. So there’s this like, conference, it’s a nerd conference,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s really important to me and this and that. And eventually, she was like,
⏹️ ▶️ John much information already. Yeah, you’ve already lost.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So she was like, Okay, whatever. So I’ve made a note. And then I’m thinking to myself, okay,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, um, I don’t know if it’s relevant or not. But the charge would be from Apple, like she didn’t even care who the charge
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is from. So I think you’re right that she was like, Yeah, okay, whatever. That’s That’s great, go away. And then I, by coincidence, happened
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see a friend of the show, underscore David Smith, for lunch today, and he and I were talking about it, and he immediately
⏹️ ▶️ Casey came to the same conclusion that you guys did, which is the one I eventually came to, which was, oh yeah, this is not a thing. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all automated. There’s nothing you can do about it anyway. Good freaking luck.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco These charges look so suspicious also, because like, it’s $1,600, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as much as a laptop costs from a company that, if you stole a credit card and you wanted to go
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get a quick whim as something you could quickly flip and sell, you’d probably go buy a fancy technology product
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a fancy laptop from Apple. I bet lots of fraudulent charges are for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple. It’s also a card-not-present transaction because it’s done online. So again, if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you steal a credit card online, you’re probably going to go try to place an order from the Apple Web Store, which is exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where these charges come from. You’re calling up and saying,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this charge might happen. I can’t even tell you that I’m definitely trying it. I haven’t tried it yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This charge might happen in a few days.” So you’re basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco asking their fraud detection systems to completely go against all of their heuristics
⏹️ ▶️ John basically. So the note the person made in your account, that’s for other human beings
⏹️ ▶️ John to read. But the thing that’s going to reject your WWDC charge is not a human, and we’ll never look at that note,
⏹️ ▶️ John and therefore that note is meaningless.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree. And that’s exactly what Underscore said as well. And I think you’re that it really was just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I could go to sleep at night, that if for some reason I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey had a rejection, that I have done everything in my power to make sure that this goes through, which is to say,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve wasted five minutes of my time and several phone operators time.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So I had an alternate strategy suggested by my wife, which was, why don’t you use the credit card
⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t get rejected, which is another one of our credit cards that historically speaking has not gotten
⏹️ ▶️ John immediately rejected every time we tried to buy buy expensive things with it. I think we may have bought some Apple hardware
⏹️ ▶️ John with it. In fact, I did buy some Apple hardware with it in California,
⏹️ ▶️ John which we’ll talk about later. And so I said, that’s a good idea. So I went to go
⏹️ ▶️ John change the default credit card. This is after I had entered the lottery, so already I’m nervous, I’m like, I’ve already entered the lottery,
⏹️ ▶️ John it said that it was gonna use that card, I’m gonna change a different card. So I log in to that Apple ID,
⏹️ ▶️ John and have you seen the new site for like developer.apple.com when you sign in? It’s got this weird
⏹️ ▶️ John interface where everything is centered and it shows your certificates and your iTunes Connect account. And anyway, there’s an option
⏹️ ▶️ John to go edit your account or change your payment method. And that sends you to appleid.apple.com and it wants you to sign
⏹️ ▶️ John in there and enter my Apple ID and try to sign in. And it says, this Apple ID is not an email address. You cannot
⏹️ ▶️ John continue. And I knew this day would come someday. I have an Apple ID that is not an email address because I got it a really
⏹️ ▶️ John long time ago. And I’ve been using it for years and years, going to WWDC with it, doing all sorts of stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John with it. And many people I know who had non-email Apple IDs
⏹️ ▶️ John had gotten that same message many years past and had to change it. And so I’m thinking, is this the right, the
⏹️ ▶️ John best time to change my Apple ID from one that’s not an email to one that’s an email?
⏹️ ▶️ John But I also wanna change the payment method. And this is the only, I tried many different ways to get around this. Can I get my credit card
⏹️ ▶️ John information without going through this thing that demands that I change it to an email? Eventually I gave
⏹️ ▶️ John up and said, I have to change it to an email. So now my non-email Apple ID is no more. It has been
⏹️ ▶️ John an email address, Apple ID, like the rest of the peons.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I could get in to change my credit card, and I did, and I changed the credit card that does not get rejected.
⏹️ ▶️ John So that was all of my prep, and I thought long and hard about, should I just leave it the way it is,
⏹️ ▶️ John or should I try to call somebody to get the credit card changed over the phone while leaving my Apple ID? Is it
⏹️ ▶️ John a good idea? And that was most of the excitement and bother about it because
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought they were gonna tell Us who got the ticket on the 25th, but I guess
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s just the lower bound But I saw Marco talking in slack about how he hadn’t gotten the email about
⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC yet so I checked my email inbox and lo and behold I saw a $1,599 charge.
⏹️ ▶️ John a WWDC ticket and then I had to scramble and buy plane tickets and do all the other stuff So I’m going I will be there
⏹️ ▶️ John even though I was just there I will be there again It will cost a tremendous amount of money still haven’t decided
⏹️ ▶️ John which hotel which of the two hotel reservations I’ve made I’m going to keep in which one I’m going to cancel
⏹️ ▶️ John But one of them I will keep so I will be there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So what else is going on these days
⏹️ ▶️ John You you guys have to answer but your experience has been like did you win the lot the ticket lottery?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s talk about anything else in the entire world. But that
⏹️ ▶️ John I take it by your sadness that neither one of you got tickets in the lottery?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey As we record, I have not received an email. I have not received a you got one email and I have not received a ha ha tough nuggies
⏹️ ▶️ John either. Right, you’ve got until the 25th technically to see whether you get one.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Just because you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco have an email
⏹️ ▶️ John right now does not mean you’re not going to get a ticket in the lottery because they have a three day window there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s probably not happening. Now I did not see any attempted charge
⏹️ ▶️ Casey against my card, although presumably I wouldn’t even I didn’t see an attempted one unless it went through. I did not see a charge go through.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But like I said, I haven’t received the Screw You email yet. My coworker, Jamie,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey he did get one on the same master account, like we’re two individuals,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey two members of the same group account. He already got his, so I’m not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey too terribly hopeful. But strictly speaking, I have until Monday afternoon
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see. But we’ll see what happens. I have not yet received any confirmation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or denial and Marco. I believe you’re in the same boat.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is correct I have seen no no response about my ticket status
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are also I checked my bank and there is not a pending charge on the credit card
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I I’ve heard you know like like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP tipster in the chat is saying that he asked around and that that apparently the The charges are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still being processed that like it’s not over yet but I think it’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco over and that’s you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we talked about this on under the radar this past week or last week I guess I am totally fine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going without a ticket like I would prefer to have a ticket but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco every year I think my need for it goes down and I in this year if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I if I don’t get one through the regular process like everybody else I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just like I’m not gonna like to pull strings or anything or you know try to email around or email developer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco relations or whatever i’m not i don’t think i’m gonna do any of that because i don’t i
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if i can get one through the regular means that’s great um but if i don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know that’s fine too i’ll let somebody else take it
⏹️ ▶️ John so what do you think about we discussed this briefly in slack what do you think about the idea that
⏹️ ▶️ John one or all of us should get tickets because we have a podcast where we talk about Apple stuff. In other words, us going as press rather
⏹️ ▶️ John than as I develop iOS developers or whatever, because I think that is a perfectly legitimate
⏹️ ▶️ John reason for people to go to WWDC. In fact, I have in the past had press pass to WWDC
⏹️ ▶️ John for writing my OS 10 reviews, which I’m no longer doing. But podcasts are a thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John And people interested in technology listen to podcasts. And at the very least, you would imagine, especially now that they’re holding the
⏹️ ▶️ John keynote in the big auditorium, we’ll talk about later, that there’s more room for press, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John for the keynote at least, if not for the entire conference, or maybe just for the first day things with the State of the Union and everything like
⏹️ ▶️ John that, then why shouldn’t somebody who has a reasonably popular
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple tech-related podcast be in the running at least, be considered for press passes?
⏹️ ▶️ John How many tech podcasts do get press passes to WWDC?
⏹️ ▶️ John As far as I know, there aren’t any, I’m not aware of any pure
⏹️ ▶️ John podcasts that get press passes as in there’s not an associated website. It’s not like, oh, I’m from the
⏹️ ▶️ John Verge cast, but I’m part of the Verge, and the Verge gets press passes. Just all you have is a podcast, kind of like we have. There is
⏹️ ▶️ John no ATP website to speak of. Marco’s got his blog, and we all have our own individual blogs, and there’s an ATP.fm
⏹️ ▶️ John website for the podcast, but it’s not like it’s associated with a website that has any appreciable traffic for just the
⏹️ ▶️ John show. So why shouldn’t there be a category
⏹️ ▶️ John of, you know, we’re going to get press passes to, of course, all the the big publications and all the big websites and also
⏹️ ▶️ John one or two tech podcasts that we pick out of a hat or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree with you. I don’t think it’s unreasonable, but clearly I’m extremely biased and especially right now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because although I’m not saying I’m going to pull a bunch of strings because honestly I don’t think I even have strings to pull, but if strings
⏹️ ▶️ Casey were pulled on my behalf, people of the Internet, I wouldn’t complain because I’m still learning all this stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I would still I would still love to get an actual ticket into the big show. I will be there regardless,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I would love to have a ticket, especially since it is more pertinent to my world than ever before.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I mean, really, like, for among the three of us, I think, Casey, you probably have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the biggest justification for going this year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey This year, yeah. I don’t think we could say that in years past, but this year I would agree. Although it’s probably best
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that if any of us, John gets it, because all three of us know that if John didn’t get a ticket,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s no freaking way we would convince him to go to San Francisco just for funsies.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Exactly. I was just there too.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. Even more reason for you to tell us to kindly screw off.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is worth pointing out also that like the press tickets, like the people who cover
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the keynote for the press who get press badges, first of all, it’s kind of an awesome gig because you don’t have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wait in the four-hour long line, but second of all, those people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do not get conference badges for the rest of the conference. It’s only the keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ John In general, there are exceptions.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s very rare to have an exception though. It would be plausible and reasonable
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for them to consider large tech podcasts to cover their developer conference to give them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco press passes, but it wouldn’t necessarily follow that they would get conference tickets. And the press passes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tend to go out far later. The press people aren’t getting invited now. They’re probably going to get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco invited two weeks before the event.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and in the old days, it used to be that USA Today and the New York Times and Time magazine
⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff would get press passes but websites would not and then eventually a couple of websites
⏹️ ▶️ John became part of the blessed set that Apple PR chose to give passes to. These days
⏹️ ▶️ John it seems like it’s you know mostly websites and then of course paper publications or whatever so there is a progression
⏹️ ▶️ John of what are the what is the the the the entities that
⏹️ ▶️ John are allowed to get press passes what are they are they newspapers magazines websites podcasts
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think are in that group yet, but it’s a natural progression from only inviting paper publications to also including
⏹️ ▶️ John websites to eventually including podcasts. Assuming the audience of any podcast
⏹️ ▶️ John is big enough to warrant that, and maybe ours isn’t. I’m not saying that we, that ATP needs to get some, but-
⏹️ ▶️ John I am. Yeah, I’ll say that. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Come on, John, promote yourself. Well, you got one. You’re
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah. You don’t care. I mean, I got press pass with Ars Technica, but Ars Technica is a very big website, right? And The Verge is a very
⏹️ ▶️ John big website, right? Whereas any individual podcast can’t really compared to the size of a very big website like
⏹️ ▶️ John that. So maybe there’s some minimum number that they, you know, uh, many of them, a minimum audience
⏹️ ▶️ John size or whatever that they wanted to do. Anyway. Um, I think if someone inside apples doesn’t do this, that it
⏹️ ▶️ John would be silly not to include podcasts in your list of entities who should get press passes for the keynote in the
⏹️ ▶️ John first day, state of the union stuff because people listen to podcasts, people like them. Um, and they’re just as
⏹️ ▶️ John legitimate form of coverage and discussion as anything else.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s also worth pointing out too that the watch event, the very first watch event, it went over this like September
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or November 2014, right? Something like that. And that was at the Bill Graham auditorium
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also actually. But that very first watch event, at that event, that was the first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time where they really invited a very broad swath of press and partly because they were going into a new category. So they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had like watch press, fashion press, but that was also the first press event I know of where they invited
⏹️ ▶️ Marco major YouTube tech people like MKBHD. It seems like they’re like breaking the YouTube
⏹️ ▶️ Marco barrier or the YouTube seal. They’re breaking the YouTube seal in the last
⏹️ ▶️ Marco couple events recently, at least the really big ones. So maybe podcasts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have some hope. I mean unfortunately, you know, podcasts are indeed older than YouTube but YouTube is way bigger than podcasts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like MKBHD, his audience is probably 10 or 15 times the size
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of ours at least. It’s probably even more than that. I haven’t looked recently. They’re
⏹️ ▶️ John millions. They’ve got millions of viewers on the YouTube channel.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Yeah. So there are lots of really popular YouTubers
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who would, by raw numbers, be ranked way above a tech podcast like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ours. But Apple PR also… It’s not purely based on numbers. It’s partly based
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on who you know. It’s partly based on a long, established reputation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and partly based on influence. So somebody who has a relatively small readership but a high influence,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Jim Dalrymple is a great example. Jim Dalrymple’s site, like if you look at his numbers on his stats and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco sponsorship pages, there are sites that get more than that that don’t get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco passes. But because he’s so influential and he’s been around so long covering this stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that helps him be included on those lists. So it isn’t all about numbers. It is also about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco influence and relationships.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, someone in the chat room is saying that if they picked all three of us from ATP, it would be
⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know, inside baseball echo chamber favoritism or whatever. That’s the job of PR. The PR
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco at Apple, it’s job is to
⏹️ ▶️ John select which people… One possible PR strategy is only invite people who you know love
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple. Is that the best PR strategy? Probably not, but their whole job is to decide who to pick. Of course
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all favoritism. It’s who Apple PR favors and Apple PR if it’s good
⏹️ ▶️ John will not only favor, you know, people that love Apple, they will try to have an even mix where
⏹️ ▶️ John they want a positive outcome, but they’re not just going to pick people who, you know, never say anything negative about Apple there.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’re picking based on a complicated criteria, but it is ultimately entirely their choice, right? So there’s no such
⏹️ ▶️ John thing as, you know, favoritism. It’s there’s it’s not like there’s no what is the opposite of favoritism
⏹️ ▶️ John that the government picks who gets to cover, you know, like Apple’s conference. It’s Apple’s conference of
⏹️ ▶️ John their PR people pick who gets press passes. That’s it. There’s no it’s not a democracy. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so anyway, and I would imagine to like the your ability to say negative things about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple and still get invited is probably correlated to your age and size. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, Joanna Stern can say in the Wall Street Journal that the iPhone doesn’t have enough battery life.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if we say that that might hurt our chances of getting it, you know, like, because we are not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, we’re not the Wall Street. Yeah, thanks, Marco. Yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, you ruined it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all of us. Well, John got in. So I’m just gonna for you, Casey. Sorry, Casey.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. I mean, like, and
⏹️ ▶️ John once you once you come out of the press realm of talking about whether we should get passes or press passes or whatever,
⏹️ ▶️ John then it just gets into Okay, well, you’re just another iOS developer like everybody else. And then
⏹️ ▶️ John I have no idea what algorithm they used to randomly pick up. I did not win the lottery last
⏹️ ▶️ John year or the year before that. How many times years has lottery been going?
⏹️ ▶️ John so this is the first time I’ve ever actually won the lottery all the other years I’ve got like, you know, press pass and stuff. So
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, that’s probability for you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I should also note, it is very clear on the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC website, where they go through the policies and whatnot, that tickets are non
⏹️ ▶️ Casey transferable. You know, if somebody was kind enough to offer like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hey, Marco or Casey, you can have my ticket because I want you to have it even though, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, I want it. It is possible to make that happen, but basically
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you have to do is ask Apple and give them a pretty good reason. And they have
⏹️ ▶️ Casey every right to say, ha ha, no. So yeah, it seems like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if Marco and I don’t get them sometime in the next few hours or slash couple of days.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then we’ll just be goofing off in San Francisco, riding the cable cars, eating rice-a-roni.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We will be sleeping in on Monday. That’s what we’re gonna be doing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey That is true, actually. We’re gonna be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not waiting on the freezing cold line at 5 a.m. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is absolutely true. And we’ll be eating a lot of rice-a-roni, because it’s a San Francisco treat. Ding ding!
⏹️ ▶️ John god. We couldn’t even make that joke because my kids don’t have never seen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh goodness. That’s right. That’s your job as a parent is to make jokes that are barely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco funny to begin with that your kids won’t even get.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well have fun, John.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s cool. I hope you have a good time. You can come anyway. Go to the Layers Conference or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s probably what I’m gonna do. Yeah, actually, I don’t think it’s even been announced officially yet, but.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, they’ve announced the dates. There’s no tickets yet, but the dates have been announced.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s no tickets. Yes, you can’t buy tickets yet, but I will be going. I think, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, if I don’t get a WBC ticket, I’ll definitely be going to layers. And I think I’d even be going anyway. Last year I actually got both
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I didn’t regret that at all. So I am looking forward to layers this year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, so I’ll be there for that at least. And I already booked the plane ticket. I’m gonna be there the whole week. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll see you there regardless of what happens.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’re all gonna be
⏹️ ▶️ John there. Oh, and by the way, like, everyone’s talking about this, but like W2C has been getting more and more expensive.
⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a couple of blog posts about how much more expensive it is for the past, I think this is close to my limit of like
⏹️ ▶️ John next year if current trends continue I may not even enter the lottery because it is such a tremendous amount
⏹️ ▶️ John of money and I’m not writing an OSX review. So I’m basically going for
⏹️ ▶️ John the purposes of this show and my own edification combination but boy
⏹️ ▶️ John it is a lot of money. I look at how much money it’s costing all in and I just think about what else I could do
⏹️ ▶️ John with that money. You know as my wife reminds me it will be tax deductible because this is a work thing But
⏹️ ▶️ John boy, it’s very difficult to justify as the price keeps going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, especially like the hotel prices are probably the biggest chunk of it for most people now, unless you’re flying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from somewhere very far away. But otherwise, you’re paying almost $2,000 for the hotel in most cases. Or more. Or yeah, actually, you
⏹️ ▶️ John how far you’re willing to walk and many other things. Whether you require a bathroom
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that seem like they should be included.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s why I made multiple reservations so that I can just decide
⏹️ ▶️ John how much I want to spend based on how far I want to walk and all sorts of other issues. And by the way, that’s for people
⏹️ ▶️ John who don’t know. I’m sure Marco covered this in the developing perspective that I have not listened to under the radar. Perfect.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s an understandable mistake. One of those underscore shows about prep for WBC
⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing that everybody in our circle tends to do these days is try to figure out
⏹️ ▶️ John when WWDC is going to be based on reading tea leaves and stuff and then just make hotel reservations
⏹️ ▶️ John many, many months in advance. So I think I made my hotel reservations in January or February or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I made mine in February.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you can cancel hotel reservations without any cost in most hotels. So you just guess and make a whole
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of reservations for a whole bunch of weeks and when Apple announces it, you cancel all the other ones.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that’s exactly what I did. I booked in early February, ended up guessing correctly, which was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey excellent. The bill in early February for the hotel where we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all tend to stay was $2,500, roughly. I actually went through
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and dug up what the bills were at this same hotel over the last few
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and wrote a blog post about this. In 2013, it was $1,123.46.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey As I just said, in 2016, it’s going to be thereabouts of $2,500.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If I were to get a ticket, which I’m hoping but not expecting, then it’s roughly $4,000
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to go to, or excuse me, not even to go there, to be in San Francisco,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey teleported by magic, to sleep there, and then go to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC. Now I have not eaten any dinners. I haven’t actually made it to San Francisco
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yet. All I’m doing is sleeping and going to the conference. And I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey looked at plane tickets. I booked my outbound ticket because I knew I was going to be there for at least a couple days even without a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC ticket. I have yet to book my return flight, but it should be about $500 all told.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So in case you were wondering, it costs about the same amount of money to be transported in a tube through space, 3,000
⏹️ ▶️ Casey miles, whatever it is, across the country as it does to sleep one night in San Francisco.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey across the country and back, I should say, is approximately the same as one night in San Francisco.
⏹️ ▶️ John The joke we made last year is every night you’re there for WWDC, that’s one Apple Watch. Go to sleep, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco another Apple Watch. Go to sleep, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John another Apple Watch. Now it’s going to be, it’s a little bit nicer Apple Watch every night. Soon we’re going to graduate to the
⏹️ ▶️ John stainless steel model every night. Anyway, now that I’ve gotten a ticket,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can thank me for ensuring that there will be no new file system this year. Because if I didn’t show up, they would
⏹️ ▶️ John definitely announce a new file system. But because I’m going to be there, there will be no new file system this year.
⏹️ ▶️ John 2017, like I said, 2017, I won’t get a ticket, and they’ll release a new file system.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe we’ll get the the tipster USB hub before then.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s funny, because I had said to a few people, leading up to the WDC
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tickets being announced, you know, here it was, I’ve been 2011 through 15 inclusive.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And every one of those those years, you would think, well, I kind of didn’t have a lot of business being there, like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I I sort of did once ATP came, but in terms of like my day-to-day job, I had no business
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being there. I was just very lucky. And here it is. I am now an honest-to-goodness iOS developer, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sitting here now, I do not have a WWDC ticket. The one time when it makes sense for me to have one, I don’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s okay, though. I’ll be okay.
Sponsor: Fracture (code ATP10)
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our first sponsor this week is Fracture. Fracture is a company that prints photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco directly on glass in vivid colors. These colors pop like you won’t believe. And all Fracture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco prints come on solid backings that are ready to mount right out of the package. All you do is stick the included
⏹️ ▶️ Marco screw in the wall and hang it up. That’s it. It’s really affordable too, with prices starting at just $15 for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a small square Fracture print. And of course they have rectangles too if you’re not part of the Instagram generation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they have all sorts of sizes up from there. and the prices here are very reasonable. I have these
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over my office. We get compliments on our fracture prints all the time because they look great
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they are so modern looking. It’s just a piece of glass
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the photo printed edge to edge, and that’s it, there’s no frame around it, there’s no border around it,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there doesn’t need to be. I think it would look weird if it had one. These things just look like pure photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a nice modern print. You don’t have to worry about framing. They’re lightweight, you don’t have to worry about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco trying to hang a really heavy duty hook in the wall to hold this thing up. They’re just great, I love these fracture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco prints. So check it out, they make great gifts also. I’ve sent them to a number of people, relatives,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco friends. Things like, you know, picture of your kid, if you’re sending it to your parents or something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that. These things make great gifts. Even the gag gifts, send it to your friends. If you go on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a trip with your friends, you wanna send them pictures afterwards. Any kind of holiday or celebrating birthdays,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything like that, these things make great gifts. Or just buy them for your own house, they really are, I think, the best way to get a picture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco printer to hang on your wall. So check out Fracture today. Go to fractureme.com
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and use code ATP10 to get 10% off. So thanks a lot to Fracture
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for sponsoring our show. Once again, go to fractureme.com and use code ATP 10 for 10%
⏹️ ▶️ Marco off. Thank you very much.
Tesla vs. Level 2 EV chargers
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should probably do what is indisputably follow up and we should talk
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about what a friend of the show man Reese has written in regarding
⏹️ ▶️ John This was about the charging stations again Tesla versus other he was pointing out the standard charging connector
⏹️ ▶️ John that we talked about last show And he says where he is in Austin, Texas There are hundreds of what
⏹️ ▶️ John he calls level two charging stations in Austin alone charge point calm list 27,000 total
⏹️ ▶️ John vastly outnumbering superchargers So these are not the super fast supercharged things for Tesla. Otherwise,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re just kind of like Plug your car in while you’re shopping or while you’re at work or whatever So they
⏹️ ▶️ John charge more slowly, but there are many many more of them Some of them are free some of them charge an hourly rate or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John It says I have a lot of respect for Tesla trying to solve the road trip problem It’s ambitious and the kind of thing and no car company would do
⏹️ ▶️ John no other car company would do But they’re also doing a good job of having destination charges at hotels And
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m seeing great progress on the infrastructure. You actually need day-to-day within cities and those aren’t from Tesla So
⏹️ ▶️ John we talked so much about Tesla and their superchargers, but it’s important to acknowledge and I see this too at the mall and stuff that there are tons of
⏹️ ▶️ John electric car park here parking spots. And I guess those all have the standard SAE connector in them. And no, they
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t charge as fast as the superchargers do. That’s why the superchargers are super but there’s way, way, way more of them.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should also talk about and we made reference to him earlier MKBHD
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, now that we’re all jealous of the press pass that he’s getting and we’re not we should take this time to dance on his
⏹️ ▶️ John Self inflicted grave is that now mixing metaphor? Sorry. Wait, what happened? I missed this. Oh quote me.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah He did it to his credit. He tweeted this himself. This is a tweet from him He says me in 2015 I
⏹️ ▶️ John guarantee the next-gen MacBook will have at least two USB C ports and then he put me right now because of course
⏹️ ▶️ John the new the MacBook was updated, we’ll talk about that a little later, it does not have two USB-C ports.
⏹️ ▶️ John Last year, whenever he made that video, he was very adamant that it will have more than
⏹️ ▶️ John one, quote me, he said, and I believe we had a chuckle about it on the show because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s totally an Apple thing to do to not add one more port. Despite the fact that we had like 17 episodes of ATP
⏹️ ▶️ John talking about this one port, we were not convinced, I don’t think, if my recollection serves. And
⏹️ ▶️ John now it’s going to be 18. yeah that apple was going to change their mind just because
⏹️ ▶️ John we want more than one port doesn’t mean apple does and lo and behold there’s a new macbook out it does not have more than one port
⏹️ ▶️ John mkbhd called himself on it to his credit we will put the links in the show notes
⏹️ ▶️ John so and and also i think he ran out of room in the tweet because in the tweet he said i guarantee the next gen macbook
⏹️ ▶️ John in the actual quote he said i pretty much guarantee the second generation of this thin light new macbook
⏹️ ▶️ John lab so he said pretty much so he had a waffle word in there so he’s learning Learning
⏹️ ▶️ John the ways of the waffle words. He said pretty much guarantee, which is not the same as a guarantee. It’s like virtually
⏹️ ▶️ John spotless. Your dishes will have spots. So anyway, I gave him a
⏹️ ▶️ John pass. I also agree that they should have more than one port as previously discussed,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I mean, something tells me that we have more to learn from MKBHD than he has to learn from us.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think, you know, we’ve seen a lot of comments since they… So, Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco updated the MacBook One, the 12-inch MacBook, which I call the MacBook One, which actually that name has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuck around in our circle. I’m actually very proud of that. So, Apple has updated the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook One with Skylake CPU this past week, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is not a big update. And a lot of people are really expecting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically the impossible from this. And I can’t blame them. I mean, you know, Apple has cultivated
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an expectation of like products get a lot better in their second and third generations.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And everything is always getting better all the time. So shouldn’t this get better by leaps and bounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too? And the reality is that the MacBook
⏹️ ▶️ Marco One uses a special, extremely low power consumption Intel platform.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It uses a very low power CPU with a very limited low power chipset to power everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco else also. And one of the core principles of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco computers today, modern mobile computers, especially laptops is that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re limited by power and thermals. And so you have different classes of what kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of performance and what kind of connectivity, what kind of ports, what kind of luxuries, what kind of speeds,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how many cores. These are all determined by fundamentally how much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco power can you supply the CPU and then correspondingly how much heat can you cool from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco being emitted from the CPU. Like a MacBook Air, those CPUs are something like 17 watt
⏹️ ▶️ Marco consumption and heat design. A 13 inch MacBook, I forget what those are,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something in like the 25 range maybe, and then a 15 inch with the quad cores, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be somewhere in the 40 watt range. The MacBook One CPU has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 5 watt range. A 5 watt CPU cannot do a whole
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot compared to even the 17 watt CPUs in the MacBook Air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco let alone like the nicer 20 or 30 watt CPUs in like a 13 inch MacBook Pro. You know, the MacBook One is designed,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s fanless, which is one of the biggest limitations of this because even a little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit of air moving through a heat sink can cool way more effectively
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than totally passive cooling systems. So this thing has no fan, it has a very small battery
⏹️ ▶️ Marco inside a very small enclosure. So the limitations placed on this are such that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The MacBook One, as long as it continues to be in that size enclosure and not have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco an active cooling fan, and not have a substantially bigger battery, it will never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have similar performance as, like, even a couple generation old 13-inch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pro. Or even a couple generation old MacBook Air,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the MacBook Air is continued to be updated, which is a giant if, and the answer is probably no. But like, people who
⏹️ ▶️ Marco expected the MacBook One to be like, two or three times faster
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than it was before, you’re going to be disappointed because there just isn’t enough thermal headroom
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that kind of, in that enclosure. And desktop or PC
⏹️ ▶️ Marco CPUs don’t make those kind of jumps in power efficiency in one year. This computer
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will never match the MacBook Pro of like, even two or three years ago.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it will, you know, it’s very limited by what it can do. And if you want something, basically,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new MacBook one is something like 20% faster than the old MacBook one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I haven’t seen a whole bunch of benchmarks yet, but it’s in that ballpark in the ballpark, in the ballpark of 20% faster. And
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a big bump, too. Because like, you’re normally when we get new Macs, it’s like, oh, and the CPU is 15% faster,
⏹️ ▶️ John and you take what you can get 2025% faster and CPU is nothing to sneeze at. Like, I don’t think this is
⏹️ ▶️ John a bad update. is faster and gets more battery life. That’s what updates are supposed to do. They just didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever. Well, exactly. But a lot of people, especially people who have owned the MacBook One,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the previous, the first generation one, a lot of them… The MacBook One is a very slow computer. A lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them were hoping that this would make it a reasonably speeded computer, and it just doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because slow times 1.2 is still slow. And you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right, 20% in one generation is a massive jump
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for PC CPUs these days. You’re lucky to get 5% or 10% most of the time. So this was a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco substantial jump. Skylake was a long time coming, and it’s a major advancement
⏹️ ▶️ Marco by Intel. And so they put this in here, and it’s still a slow
⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer. It still only has one port, and some of that is because of limitations of that low-power chipset.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Adding more ports requires more from the chipset, which this super low-power chipset
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for some of the things people want doesn’t even support it, for some of the other things, you know, we don’t know why the reasons are that they were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco omitted but they probably have to do with space and power. So this computer will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco never be what the MacBook Air is today. The role the MacBook Air serves today
⏹️ ▶️ Marco requires a little bit more space, a little bit bigger battery, and a fan.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is kind of the problem, like Apple has replaced the MacBook Air effectively from the way it appears
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve replaced the MacBook Air with a computer that can never replace
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the MacBook Air and it might be it might be irrelevant you know people a lot of people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this better that’s fine the MacBook Pro is likely to get a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot thinner and lighter when it gets its sky like updated you know any day now basically but probably a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco WDC so the MacBook Air is is kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of just left for nothing. There’s now these wonderful 17-watt CPUs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Intel makes that Apple is just not going to be using, I guess, in the future, which seems like a mistake,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t know. So the MacBook One, in order to get that size,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re giving up quite a lot, and one of those things is that computer will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco never be fast relative to the rest of the computers. It won’t even be remotely competitive compared to the rest of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the lineup, and it will never have the connectivity of the rest of the lineup and if that’s what you want if you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco want some kind of modern performance and decent connectivity you’re gonna have to go with a bigger
⏹️ ▶️ Marco model and that’s not too bad because the bigger models are awesome
⏹️ ▶️ John then they get a SSD speed bump to yes yeah faster storage and I think faster storage
⏹️ ▶️ John will probably have more an impact on people’s lives of that computer than CPU speed because I don’t think people are using it to
⏹️ ▶️ John do like big CPU or they shouldn’t be using a big CPU test but everything you do like
⏹️ ▶️ John involves the disk like launching things and even just web browsing with the disk cache and everything. So I haven’t used
⏹️ ▶️ John one of these in person, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, but like the disk was already fast. Like it was already a PCI Express native SSD. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is, you know, if you look at raw numbers, it is faster now and it’s faster by a pretty
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good margin in like disk benchmarks. But the whole machine is still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco held back dramatically by the very slow CPU and it’s very low power ceiling.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You might think, like I thought when I bought one for a day, I I thought, you know what? What am I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing on a laptop that needs that much power? It’s like, most of the time I’m just like typing and answering emails and stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, most of the time it’s fine, right? Well, first of all, typing, not on that. But, and also the trackpad,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the worst Force Touch trackpad I’ve ever used. But, you’d be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprised, like, modern OS X and things you take for granted that do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use CPU power, like viewing your photos. Like, if you wanted to like take your,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to sync your photo library over to that computer so you can take it with you and look at it on vacation or add to it on vacation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do even basic operations on photos that you take on vacation, even if they’re just photos
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from your phone, not from a fancy camera, that actually does use CPU power on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac and it actually is noticeably, annoyingly slow on that computer for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of cases. So again, it’s just like, this computer, if what you want
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a decently speedy computer that you’re not gonna ever notice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that slow, this is not the computer for you. Because it will always be slow. It can’t be fast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco relative to the rest of the lineup with that kind of thermal headroom limitation.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is the part of the program where I willfully refuse to look up the Geekbench numbers for this
⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote slow MacBook and compare them to the 2008 Mac Pro that I’m sitting in front of that’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John size of a suitcase. Don’t wanna know. Moving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on. I think, just for reference, I’m pretty sure it’ll probably kill you on single threaded, but I bet you,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I think you have at least double
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the multi-threaded. Let’s not discuss. What do you have, the 2.66, is that it? 8-core 2.6?
⏹️ ▶️ John remember, 2.8, right? Let me see, something like that. Yeah, no, 2.8. All
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right, 8-core 2.8. Mac Pro 2008. No,
⏹️ ▶️ John no, don’t look it up, what are you doing?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey What did you think he was doing, John? You should have answered that question, come on. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John wanna know. It feels fast, I have all the storage. Chatroom, look at, I’ve got a terabyte SSD, take that, MacBook.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Listen to you bargaining with yourself.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, fast storage, it’s okay. There’s no terabyte SSD option in that thing, even though mine’s hooked up to
⏹️ ▶️ John SATA, not PCI Express, but I don’t wanna think about that either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco At least it’s one USB port, it’s USB 3.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John You don’t have that either.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I don’t have USB 3, but I don’t care about that. I have way more USB ports. My goodness.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, while we send the chat room off to figure out how miserable John
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, you’re single threaded is only 1500 on that? Shhhh. That’s terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are 4000. This is a 2008 computer. Give me a break. It was fast
⏹️ ▶️ John when I got it. The multi-threaded is respectable. You got 10,000 on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the multi-threaded. That is respectable. But 1500 on single. Like, iPhones beat that now.
⏹️ ▶️ John iPad is faster than this Mac Pro.
Windows XP sounds
⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, bumper sounds. I put this in there because…
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, my apologies. …last show, yes.
⏹️ ▶️ John Last show, Marco talked about the bumper sounds and we discussed the start-up chimes he used and he said he
⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to use the Windows XP USB thing but didn’t because I wouldn’t like it. And what did he do in the next show? He used the USB
⏹️ ▶️ John sound from Windows XP. And guess what? I don’t like it. But they’re wonderful! And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco guess what? Everyone else
⏹️ ▶️ John else does. Not everyone else. The Windows users like it. They’re like, oh, Windows, I remember that. That’s great. Of course
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they’re going to like it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It has nothing to do with that. The problem is it’s just what Marco said. I guess was last episode.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was just what Marco said. It’s a perfect like mirror image. It’s do do and do do.
⏹️ ▶️ John perfect. But they’re bad sounds and they’re from Windows and they’re from Windows XP for crying
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco loud. Here’s what the
⏹️ ▶️ John Windows XP sounds did. They made me like the the startup chime sounds better. Like by comparison,
⏹️ ▶️ John even though I thought the startup chimes that he chose were not the ones that I would have picked. At least they were Apple sounds
⏹️ ▶️ John and they weren’t from Windows and they weren’t. No, I do not like them. I do not like the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey This is not the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Tech Podcast. It’s the Accidental Tech Podcast. And we have accidentally…
⏹️ ▶️ John but we talk about Apple all the time and none of us even use Windows anymore. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no. Well, but we have accidentally backed into the perfect ad bumper sounds. Marco, I stand
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with you. I’m in full support.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’re not the perfect ad bumper sounds. They’re terrible. And Microsoft’s going to come and sue you anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think Windows XP might be so old that it might be public domain. What is it? death of the author plus 75 years that they get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like that right it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s close how old is windows XP doesn’t Brian you know to do those sounds a brand-new did some Windows sounds maybe just
⏹️ ▶️ John for Windows 95 he’s still alive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh goodness I well I like them now I don’t want to get sued for into oblivion but I do like we’re not gonna get
⏹️ ▶️ John sued anyway I’m filing a formal protest against the Windows XP USB sounds as ad bumpers
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so listeners feel free to tweet at Syracuse about how much you love the XP sounds
⏹️ ▶️ John better yet the only way it’s good they’re gonna go away is if we have better alternatives so people should come up with high-quality recordings
⏹️ ▶️ John that are better alternatives that are either from Apple or from whole cloth that are not related to Windows.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or from fish maybe. I would accept fish more than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well and also like much of the complaining about the other sounds I picked the old Mac sounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that they were like kind of like too jarring. Yeah I agree. Windows, Windows sound design
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is always made to be so like universally pleasing so everybody feels nothing like the Windows sounds are like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sound equivalent of the paintings in hotel rooms like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John notice that there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it is nice when there’s sound there but you don’t notice the sound and it’s just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it offends nobody it’s completely bland and it’s fine
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the login sound is offensive you know the login sound oh yeah I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know the one where you log in and the big ugly Windows XP
⏹️ ▶️ John green grass desktop greets you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco well I I thought logging was like, boop, and then the log out was doo doo doo
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. That’s maybe I may
⏹️ ▶️ John be remembering it the wrong way. But anyway, I think some of the window sounds are offensive. And I think the USB sound like
⏹️ ▶️ John it shouldn’t be making any sound when you plug in a USB device. And I don’t like those sounds. Thumbs down.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m not going to get into it, but the USB stack on OS 10 is is not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as good as the window. Like you can’t just unplug a USB stick,
⏹️ ▶️ John even though I’ve been
⏹️ ▶️ John the USB stack, I guess it did with like buffered I.O. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you’re going
⏹️ ▶️ John to do flush IO and every single IO operation and just wait till the lights not blinking and yank it
⏹️ ▶️ John out. That’s barbaric. Come on. Why not just go back to drive letters?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I tell you what, the one thing that drives Windows converts
⏹️ ▶️ Casey crazy anytime I talk to one and it drives me kind of crazy too, is having to unmount drives.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It drives people. What do you mean I have to eject it? What are you talking about?
⏹️ ▶️ John But that’s how a modern IO system works. don’t flush everything to disk on every operation that would be crazy pants
⏹️ ▶️ John you have a buffer and you have to flush that buffer and you you have to know when it’s safe to eject
⏹️ ▶️ John something and how do you know how do you know when it’s safe i mean going back to the old unix days type you know
⏹️ ▶️ John sync twice because it’s voodoo and the second time really counts and then you can unmount your
⏹️ ▶️ John thing because then you’ll know all the bits have made their way to the disk.
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WWDC changes this year
⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC is going to be a little bit different this year. I’m probably not going to know about it in normal
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sorry, I’ll compose myself. There’s going to be a different location for Monday.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are going to be at the Bill Graham Auditorium, which we briefly made mention of earlier. This is a change
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from at least before 2011. I mean, like I said, I’ve been going since 2011, Marco, since 09.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. No, I mean, they’ve never done something like this in San Francisco as far as you know. It used to mean,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you go back far enough, if you include Macworlds, then they have things in Boston and everything, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was all before our time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so the way Mondays typically worked in the past was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would line up absurdly early outside of Moscone, which is where the conference is. You would be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey let in uncomfortably close to the time of the keynote, usually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway. You would walk up to three, or you would migrate your way up to the third floor, which is where the keynote was.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Then there would be a mad stampede into the keynote room. There’d be the keynote. Everyone would get
⏹️ ▶️ Casey punted downstairs to eat. And then you would come back up and you would watch the developer’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey State of the Union, which was kind of like a keynote, but for nerdier types. And then Tuesday through
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Friday was just regular conference time. This year, apparently on Monday, it’s all going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be in the Bill Graham Auditorium. And actually even the check-in on Sunday, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey way it always used to work was you could check in in Moscone on Sunday. And now that check-in is apparently at the Bill Graham
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Auditorium on Sunday. And then all day Monday is at the auditorium.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s where the keynote will be. That’s where the State of the Union will be. Is there anything else that evening?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like there’s one other thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ADAs, right? Apple Design Awards.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s right. That’s going to be on Monday night, all at the Bill Graham Auditorium. And then the thing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that used to be called the Beer Bash, now I guess it’s called the WWDC Bash. That
⏹️ ▶️ Casey used to be at Yerba Buena Gardens, which is this park just a couple of blocks from Moscone. Now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s also going to be at the Bill Graham Auditorium, so it’s not going to be outdoors anymore, and it’s going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to be off-site again as well. Well, further off-site anyway. This is all a bit of a change.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was a funny tweet by a friend of the show, Craig Hockenberry. I don’t know if he is being snarky or not because I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know enough about San Francisco, but it reads as follows, seriously, do not take a direct route from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your WWDC hotel to Bill Graham, get onto Market Street and pay attention from Powell to the Civic Center.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apparently because that area, which I guess the tenderloin, I’m sorry San Franciscans,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a little bit rough. So there’s transportation for the Beer Bash or the WWDC Bash.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t believe there’s any for the keynote on Monday.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the bigger venue makes sense in terms of wanting, we talked about before, wanting more press like they did
⏹️ ▶️ John with the watch event, where they just invite everybody, sure, come We will accept your coverage and we need more room
⏹️ ▶️ John for you So it’s WWC attendees and tons and tons of press come look at whatever it is. We’re
⏹️ ▶️ John going to announce State of the Union Yeah, I feel like I mean the only reason they’re holding it there is because
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s where the keynote is You’re not gonna make everybody move from one location to the other But I imagine a lot of the crowd will disappear
⏹️ ▶️ John once they bring the engineering people up and start talking about techie stuff The bash.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why that’s not outdoors. It’s kind of nice when it was outdoors I mean that weird food
⏹️ ▶️ John and the band was kind of a mess because like half the crowd we pay attention to the band the other Half will be trying to hear each other
⏹️ ▶️ John over the sound of the band
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that’s I think that’s generous like that’s for me like the bash has always been
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Uncomfortable because you have a band on one side and usually you know It’s a band that like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The people there usually have heard of the band at least many of them have heard of the band
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or at least their popular Song like they oh, yeah, I know that one song
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s net but the people who are there are not there for the band it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s all that everybody see attendees they’re mostly to talk to each other and so you have this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco band off on one side playing on the stage playing mostly to people’s backs
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and there’s this huge like open area in front of the stage where nobody wants to stand because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s trying to get away from the band so they can hear each other talk so the band is playing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to effectively a bunch of people who would rather they turn the volume down and stop it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a terrible gig for the band like it it is so awkward and I feel
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so bad like like the band like that will finish a song and there will be literally like four people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco near them clapping and everyone else just like dead silent
⏹️ ▶️ John little a little group of fans who are close
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco by who are actually
⏹️ ▶️ John into it I mean like the band is a separate thing but like I feel like the people who are not there for the band their
⏹️ ▶️ John needs are not served much better than the band. And when I think about it being in Bill Graham Auditorium,
⏹️ ▶️ John if there’s going to be a band, there’s no way to run from that band. There’s nowhere to hide. Like you’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just… Yeah, to me, that’s why I’m curious about this, because it sounds like that would make all the problems worse.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, no, it might eliminate the problem in terms of if… The only reason you would possibly go to it is if you want to see the
⏹️ ▶️ John band, because you’re not going to be able to have any discussion with anybody in the giant auditorium with a huge sound system.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s not… I mean, it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John when you two played at the Watch event, it’s not like people were having conversations in the back of the room. You couldn’t hear yourself think.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know. We’ll see how it goes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco How great would it be if the band was U2 and they only played Songs of Innocence?
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not a bad album, you know, first of all.
⏹️ ▶️ John the single they chose to play off of the Watch It event, eh, you know, not the best song. Anyway, it’s not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to be U2 again. But if it was, I would go. I didn’t even go
⏹️ ▶️ John to the bash last year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think I’ve seen you there in several years now.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I usually have conflicts with other things. But, you know, the times I’ve gone to the bash, I have enjoyed
⏹️ ▶️ John it. You’ve hid way in the back and you go from circle of people to circle of people and you yell really loud until your
⏹️ ▶️ John voices don’t give out. But it’s like, it’s the one time I feel like I get to see everybody because everybody,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, all the people I know are hiding in the back in little clusters and I can find them. Whereas during the conference, if you happen
⏹️ ▶️ John to pick the same session as somebody, you see where they’re sitting, you can talk to them briefly before or after, but the bash is, you know, it’s a gathering
⏹️ ▶️ John of people and it’s like the end of the conference. And I have fond memories of the few years that I, that
⏹️ ▶️ John I went there. just not not ideal for the purpose that I would like to use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think that’s like what most like I think most people are there to socialize. They’re not there to see a band.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Yerba Buena was already like it was crowded in there like even like trying to walk
⏹️ ▶️ Marco through and just like get from one side to the other or to get to the food things or to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know to leave or to enter. You were going it was such a crowd it was like walking through Times Square
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s you’re like trying to like wedge between people to like weave through like it was always very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco densely packed at least in recent years.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just look for Craig Hockenberry’s head and navigate
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s so true for those who don’t know Craig Hockenberry is approximately 13 feet tall about that. So the bash is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to be at Bill Graham. I don’t know. I that’s a weird setup like you guys said and I do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel for the bands that play the bash because they usually whether or not you like the music generally
⏹️ ▶️ Casey speaking the bands are good and they’re typically up and coming bands but just like Marco said it’s the worst gig in the world because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least half if not three quarters of the of the audience has their back to you because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they are not paying attention to you at all they just want to talk and god I feel for them. It was a lottery again this year
⏹️ ▶️ Casey obviously I have very mixed feelings about well no I don’t have mixed feelings about it I’m very sad at the way the lottery turned
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out selfishly speaking but wait I just got in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seriously yeah I just got the email
⏹️ ▶️ John oh see I told you 25th you have until
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nothing for me. Sorry, Casey. That’s okay. So yeah, so the lottery.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Generally speaking, I think I’m pretty heavily in favor of it. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the least crappy alternative I think that we have.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we talked about this around a year ago. I don’t think I’m going to spend the time to dig up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what episode or episodes it was in the show notes. It might have even been two years ago when this was a new thing. But anyways,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think even as someone who has, as we record now,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey still does not have a ticket, I do think it’s the most fair way of doing things, and I am
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in support of it. Because even though I appreciated being Johnny on the Spot back
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when there was at least a moment to order— to order. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just laugh because whenever I hear anybody say Johnny on the spot,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can only think of the brand of portable toilet of that name that was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over my baseball fields in my youth.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. I don’t even know what to make of that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you say, I was Johnny on the spot, like, no, that’s not how I perceive that phrase.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, in any case, I was very quick to order a ticket back when
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you had some amount of control over such things. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do think that in the grand scheme of things, the lottery is the best way to do it.
⏹️ ▶️ John One other idea that I heard about Billy Graham being a larger venue is that they
⏹️ ▶️ John are anticipating a fall off in terms of attendance and potentially could invite
⏹️ ▶️ John more people. I have no idea if this is true, but this is a theory that I heard like so say they can invite 5000 people because that’s what Moscone
⏹️ ▶️ John holds 5000 people go to the keynote instead of the union and then the next day comes
⏹️ ▶️ John and 4000 people show up to go to sessions for the rest of the week, right? So if you have a larger venue
⏹️ ▶️ John for Billy Graham, you could have for the keynote, you could have invite more people
⏹️ ▶️ John and expect kind of like how you expect like no shows or whatever or you know, restaurant reservations, like essentially
⏹️ ▶️ John overbook it to account for the fact that a lot of people are just going to go to the first day’s
⏹️ ▶️ John festivities and will not appear every single day for the rest of the conference. That is a theory I heard. I don’t put
⏹️ ▶️ John much stock in it, but it is another potential benefit. Getting back to the lottery, like how do you deal with the
⏹️ ▶️ John fact that more people want to come than can go? You can move into a different city to a bigger venue. You can use more of Moscone.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe this is like a weird hybrid solution. We’ll see.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, I think so Billy Graham versus Bill Graham. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco assume this is different right because you keep saying Billy Graham that’s very different
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is I this is somebody else
⏹️ ▶️ John right yeah I’m misspeaking in my typical way please please auto correct
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying to the place where the WWDC keynote is being held if I had said the wrong place just pretend
⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t say that pretend I said the right thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it appears that Bill Graham was a concert promoter and that’s probably who the who the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Auditorium was named after right and then Billy Graham is Is was not not
⏹️ ▶️ John a concert friends could have called him Billy. You don’t know. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Goodness, okay. I don’t even know where to go from here in any case
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the other thing that was interesting was I don’t recall how this was last year because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I Did get a ticket last year, but I’ll find out this year check your email. I don’t know just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John keep hitting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey refresh Yeah, that’s totally gonna work
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If it makes you feel better, I also just got the email from Tesla advertising all the new features of the Model S that my car Doesn’t have.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh that makes me feel marginally better, but They’re going to be broadcasting Actually, let me
⏹️ ▶️ Casey read the quote from the website We will we will be live streaming sessions daily and posting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey videos of all our sessions throughout the week of the conference Did they live stream anything other than like Monday
⏹️ ▶️ Casey last year? I had thought they were very very quick on the turnaround, but I don’t recall them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey live streaming regular sessions. Is that true?
⏹️ ▶️ John Live streaming that means they’ve opened the door to streakers
⏹️ ▶️ John Developers around the world are watching learning about core foundation and then all of a sudden from
⏹️ ▶️ John the corner runs right across the stage Oh my God, I don’t even know where to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go from here either. Was that guy English?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Of all the people who I’ve seen, you know, comment on the fact that they’re live streaming
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this year, this concern is unique to you, John.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, it’s kind of like the same way, like, they got rid of the Q&A. It used to be that at the end of the sessions they would have Q&A
⏹️ ▶️ John and they got rid of that for it was just not constructive use of everyone’s time.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, it was terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ John you know what Q&A’s are like. But on the other hand, sometimes you’ve got some amusing or interesting questions.
⏹️ ▶️ John There was a time they bailed on the Q&A about the App Store because people were really angry and they didn’t want to deal with that. So they just
⏹️ ▶️ John ended it. And then, you know, so like Q&A is another example where you don’t know what you’re going to get. You have a prepared
⏹️ ▶️ John presentation and you give it and then anything can happen. And when you’re there at WWDC, sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ John people yell something out from the audience that’s funny that doesn’t make it into the video because they edited it out or they edited
⏹️ ▶️ John out the little aside. usually people being excited about a new API or a new parameter or something very
⏹️ ▶️ John nerdy like that. This is one of the unique benefits of being there in person. Anyway, if they live stream it and someone was
⏹️ ▶️ John to yell something out in the audience, then that would make it to the live stream, but probably not to
⏹️ ▶️ John the recorded one that they edit down.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, Jeff. I mean, like the recorded ones, they edited out like applause and laughter and like any little
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tiny slip up. They edit that out to the recorded ones. They are extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. Anything else on WWDC? Enjoy you two.
⏹️ ▶️ John time. You got three days, Casey, three whole days for Apple PR to listen to this podcast. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all Apple PR wants to do is listen to the Accidental Tech Podcast. That’s how they spend their Saturday
⏹️ ▶️ John night. What else do they have to do with their time?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, actually, it’s not even gonna be released. Yeah, Marco, you gotta release this tomorrow. Give me a chance here. Okay.
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco And of course, if they’re home, they generally move on, right? So with the Ring video doorbell, it can actually
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John’s new hardware
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, while you were on vacation in California forgetting what reality was,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you bought some new hardware.
⏹️ ▶️ John I got to buy it in the official Apple store. I don’t know what you call it. It’s the one at one
⏹️ ▶️ John infinite loop. They have a little Apple store
⏹️ ▶️ John The company store. I’m told that it used to look very different, but now it just looks like a regular Apple store.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it used to have like racks of clothes in it and stuff and you can buy like mugs and silly things like that.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I never went to it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is that all gone? I’ve only seen the old one. I haven’t seen the new one.
⏹️ ▶️ John just looks like an apple store it’s a bunch of tables it’s got a big screen on two of the walls it’s really neat have you seen what these screens i don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John know how they work it’s like a cloth type thing i assume it’s rear projection or something uh anyway can you
⏹️ ▶️ John still buy t-shirts and stuff they do have t-shirts they’re they’re displayed very strangely they’re like stretched
⏹️ ▶️ John over these little rectangles so you can’t tell that they’re shirts you just have to assume that the fabric stretched
⏹️ ▶️ John into that rectangle shape has sleeves and a place for your head to come out and stuff but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah you can buy t-shirts in fact someone i saw someone there buying a lot of t-shirts and I was just adding up how much they must cost because each
⏹️ ▶️ John one of those t-shirts is surely like 30 bucks or something. Anyway. Oh yeah, they’re not well priced. I meant to
⏹️ ▶️ John buy it, buy something before I left, but as the date approached, you’re worried
⏹️ ▶️ John that the shipping’s gonna come and you’re gonna be on a plane. I’m like, you know what, I’m going there. I can
⏹️ ▶️ John just go to Apple and get it. So I did. I got myself a normal size
⏹️ ▶️ John iPad Pro and a pencil and the smart cover and I got the back
⏹️ ▶️ John silicone cover thing as well. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I also got a replacement iPad from my son. He got the Air. This is his combined birthday present with
⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of other things. Replacing his iPad 2 that he’s destroyed, utterly destroyed. So hopefully
⏹️ ▶️ John now that he’s older and a little bit wiser he will not utterly destroy this iPad but it’ll be a big
⏹️ ▶️ John upgrade from his non-retina iPad 2 that he’s been using. the pro I mean as
⏹️ ▶️ John you would imagine upgrading from an iPad 3 is fantastic everything is fast and
⏹️ ▶️ John beautiful and the screen is amazing I left true tone on I you know I tried the little demo of it on and
⏹️ ▶️ John off I was worried that it would bother me that I would notice but I don’t and I think it’s great and I think
⏹️ ▶️ John that screen is amazing and I’m really happy about it the silicone back thing I don’t know what you call the case
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the only question mark I have it on now it’s only the back so it’s not the front the smart
⏹️ ▶️ John cover I have on the front the back and front fit together really nicely but I mean
⏹️ ▶️ John which looks neat when it’s all closed up but it makes it harder to open you have to sort of find where the edge is this doesn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John you know with the smart cover you can kind of do that smart cover thing that I think everyone unconsciously does where you can slide
⏹️ ▶️ John out the smart cover slightly to get it poking off the edge of the iPad and then pull it up with your thumb you know I’m talking about
⏹️ ▶️ John with the case that kind of seats together it’s a little bit harder to get the edge and when you’re holding it of course it’s a little lip
⏹️ ▶️ John around the whole thing and of two minds on the lip. It is
⏹️ ▶️ John bad in that it’s, you know, it’s a little ridge where once it was smooth, but it is good coming from the iPad 3 in
⏹️ ▶️ John that I wish the borders around the iPad were a little bit bigger for thumb gripping. And that little ridge
⏹️ ▶️ John gives an extra grippy area to make up for the fact that the sides, when held in portrait orientation, are not as wide.
⏹️ ▶️ John Um, and also it does, like, it doesn’t block the speakers. There are little holes in the case for the, for the four speakers to come
⏹️ ▶️ John out, but I wonder if it’s affecting the audio quality. Although the audio quality is so, again, so much better
⏹️ ▶️ John than this stupid one little tinny speaker on my iPad 3, it’s amazing. I heartily
⏹️ ▶️ John recommend not upgrading your iOS device for however many years. I kept that iPad 3 because
⏹️ ▶️ John wow, what an upgrade.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, you’ve also like, if you look at the iPad lineup in retrospect, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all pretty good. Like there really weren’t any bad iPads. But if you had to pick one as the worst
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad ever released, it’s the iPad 3.
⏹️ ▶️ John I would say the iPad 4, I think the iPad 4 is worse. Because here’s why. No,
⏹️ ▶️ John Where iPad 4 was the iPad 3, but with a faster processor and the lightning port, right? Yeah, but-
⏹️ ▶️ John But you had to wait later to get that. You got the iPad 3, it was the first Retina one, and you feel like, I
⏹️ ▶️ John waited, it’s what I did. I waited a really long time. I went in to buy them when they’re Retina, and I bought it when it was Retina. When the 4 came out,
⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t feel bad, because one came out that was slightly faster and had a lightning port. I felt good that I had the Retina one,
⏹️ ▶️ John while for the three months, there were people waiting for the 4. And the battery life has been great. And like, I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John the iPad 3 is a great iPad, I feel like. Yes, it was big and it was hot, but.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but you know, like I said, like, none of the iPads have been really bad. But just like, you know, if you had to pick
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one as the worst, I think everybody would agree the iPad 3 was the worst of these pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John good products. I would pick the Mini with the two internals I think was worse, because you
⏹️ ▶️ John have to account for the time that it was released. The Mini with the two internals was released after the 2, but it was as
⏹️ ▶️ John slow as the 2, and it was non-retina, and I think that was the dog of the iPad line. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve enjoyed my iPad 3, it served me well. That’s a reasonable counter-argument. It served me well,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I think this iPad is gonna go down as one of the really good ones because it is, it’s very
⏹️ ▶️ John impressive and it’s a big step up from the other
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco ones. I haven’t
⏹️ ▶️ John really used the Pencil yet, so I don’t know what I’m gonna use the Pencil for. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John debating trying to use it for navigation now that all of the people fought for my right to use it for
⏹️ ▶️ John navigation. All right, well, maybe I’ll try it for that. I just bought it because, I mean, I’ve used it in the store and
⏹️ ▶️ John everything, I know what it’s like, but I just bought it because it supports it and I’ll surely find something do with it. And
⏹️ ▶️ John if not I’ll have this neat little accessory. Yeah I’m enjoying it. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ John and what I didn’t enjoy was iTunes. Nobody enjoys iTunes. I brought my iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John 3 with me on the trip expecting to do it at full encrypted iTunes backup
⏹️ ▶️ John and then plug in the new iPad and restore my encrypted iTunes backup onto it. And so basically just what I had in
⏹️ ▶️ John my iPad 3 now is on my new iPad Pro. That seems like it should work.
⏹️ ▶️ John It has worked for me in the past. I did the backup from the iPad 3 to the computer that I brought with me,
⏹️ ▶️ John and that worked fine. And then I tried to restore onto the iPad Pro, and that did not work fine. It would take
⏹️ ▶️ John a really long time, halfway through, an error would occur, then the iPad Pro would reboot,
⏹️ ▶️ John and I tried it many different times, and many different permutations across reboots, restarting
⏹️ ▶️ John both devices, trying different techniques to, you know, redoing the backups. I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John it just never worked. I spent many many hours trying to get iTunes to restore onto this. I had to eventually resort to to
⏹️ ▶️ John an iCloud backup and everyone knows what that’s like. You lose half your stuff that you had there. I had to re-sign into
⏹️ ▶️ John all my Slack things. You don’t get any of your passwords saved, so you have to re-enter all that information
⏹️ ▶️ John and it takes a year and a day to put all your apps back on. So, good old iTunes, screwed me
⏹️ ▶️ John one last time. And will continue to because the next time I get an iOS device, if I have a
⏹️ ▶️ John choice between doing an encrypted backup and getting all those things and doing it the iCloud way with the current limitations, I’ll still
⏹️ ▶️ John try the iTunes way, but that was not fun.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m glad you got the new hardware, and I’m glad you like it. I mean, you’ve been waiting a long, long, long time. Did you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey On Verizon, or did you just get the Apple SIM one, or?
⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t have a choice when you buy it. You just say with cellular, and that’s what you get. You get with cellular, and
⏹️ ▶️ John so mine has cellular, and during the setup, it was trying to tell me,
⏹️ ▶️ John hook it up to it, but I’m like, you know, I’ll add it to my Verizon account when I go.
⏹️ ▶️ John To WWC, which people may ask me, why would you bother doing that? doesn’t every place have Wi-Fi and you have an
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone. Every place does have Wi-Fi, but Wi-Fi is not made to support 3,000
⏹️ ▶️ John nerds with a million devices, and so the Wi-Fi is usually not particularly healthy.
⏹️ ▶️ John Tethering, in my experience, has not worked particularly reliably. The most reliable
⏹️ ▶️ John way to get any kind of internet access, in the middle of Moscone anyway, with a bunch of other nerds, in my
⏹️ ▶️ John experience, has been Verizon.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more. I bought, I’ve had I think four iPads and this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey last, the prior one to this one and the one I got for Christmas, both of them have been
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with cellular and I couldn’t agree with you more that that’s the way to do it in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey general. I mean, it is like $130 more money, so it is fairly expensive, but I really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey prefer to have an onboard cellular connection if I so desire, even in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey general, just even outside WWDC. And then when you’re in WWDC, holy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey crap, It’s so much better being on any cellular network than it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is being on the WWDC Wi-Fi, particularly Keynote Day. But I’m not gonna have to worry about that this
⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t know that, you don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in so many ways, it just makes sense to bring your own connection places.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not only is it generally more consistent and more reliable, it’s also more secure.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You don’t have to join somebody’s crazy Wi-Fi. If you’re using some kind of VPN software, that’s a little bit different,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like most people, and we like to think that everything is done over HTTPS,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s not still, there’s still a lot of things that aren’t, so I think for most people,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco using a tethered connection is way more secure than using some hotel Wi-Fi or something.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Alrighty, well, any other thoughts on your new hardware?
⏹️ ▶️ John My color choices for the case were kind of difficult. I’ve been going with kind of gray or black in the
⏹️ ▶️ John past, I almost did it again, but I decided to go with midnight blue this time. I
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco wish there were other
⏹️ ▶️ John colors that were more exciting. I really do like the red, but my wife has claimed the red and so do to to
⏹️ ▶️ John avoid in house confusion in house iOS device confusion. I I’ve been kicked out of red,
⏹️ ▶️ John which is exactly what I would buy. I wish there was like a better blue that looked more blue, but I went with the midnight
⏹️ ▶️ John blue. So at least it’s not black. Of course, I got the space gray device, but you can’t see any of the space
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s all in a case now.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, why did you get the silicon case? It seems so peculiar to me. I’ve never had a back case on any of my iPads.
⏹️ ▶️ John I know, neither have I. This isn’t the first one, but it’s so much thinner than the iPad 3, as you can
⏹️ ▶️ John imagine. And I like the idea of a little bit of extra protection and a little bit of extra grip. And so far,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m like, my problems are not around back. My problems are like the ridge and opening it. And I’ll see, if it annoys
⏹️ ▶️ John me, I’ll take it off and, you know, lesson learned. But so far I’m keeping it in there. And I kind of like it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Space gray in front, party in the back.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s not space
⏹️ ▶️ John gray in the front. You messed that up. It’s black in the front.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God. Well, so I’m curious. So you know, like if you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you if you’re a beer person, you have undoubtedly heard from somebody who has ever drank
⏹️ ▶️ Marco beer before that. Oh, well, you have to go have Guinness at the Guinness Brewery in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ireland. It’s so much better there and honestly, having done that, I think it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the same. Then please don’t email me all of Ireland
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I wonder like should the should the iPad that you buy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at one infinite loop at the company store should that be like a little bit better than all the other all the other
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPads should it be like should it like you know smell fresher or should it be like 5% faster
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t you feel like you should have gotten something
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah no the CPU the CPU is 5 megahertz It’s faster, yeah. Yeah. Didn’t tell you that? No, mine
⏹️ ▶️ John has four gigs of RAM. Yeah. Wow. No, I think
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s about the same. And the only difference is I think the Apple Store was a little bit less crowded when
⏹️ ▶️ John I went in. Like when I got in there, I felt like, wow, this is actually pretty empty for an Apple Store. But
⏹️ ▶️ John by the time I was done with my transaction and picking everything out and getting everything, everything all packaged up, that
⏹️ ▶️ John store was mobbed. So I think I just came before the rush.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, a lot of times, they’ll have like tour buses that stop there.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t know what I did see a company tour. Like it was a bunch of people in suits. I think they were being led around
⏹️ ▶️ John by someone from Apple. Like we have them at our place too. Important people come and they want to show them like on a big
⏹️ ▶️ John tour and all the people are all dressed up like they’re executives from some other company. So I saw one group like
⏹️ ▶️ John that. And then just a bunch of other people that came in a big mob after me. The other advantage is that the
⏹️ ▶️ John parking lots at Apple are filled with interesting cars. Both the visitor parking lots and the employee parking lots are filled
⏹️ ▶️ John with very interesting cars. Much more interesting cars than at the Natick Mall. Sorry, Nantic Mall, or the Chestnut Hill Mall, for that
⏹️ ▶️ John matter. Wow. Yeah, but lots of hybrids, lots of electric vehicles.
⏹️ ▶️ John One of the ones, did I take a picture of it and show you, the hybrid Panamera? No, I don’t think you did. It could have been one of those $260,000 models.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all black with fancy wheels, just tons of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Excellent. Yeah, I’ve never been to Infinite Loop. I have always had something else
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do back when they used to do the buses at WWDC, like not the official Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ones. There was an organizer, or like a group of people that would organize
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a bus trip down to Infinite Loop. And I just always had something else to do. I always visited
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with a good friend of mine. And so I’ve never, ever, ever been. And Marco, you said you’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Casey been, John, obviously you just went. And I’m kind of jealous. I’d like to see it sometime, especially before it goes away forever.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was organized by a friend of everybody, Jeff LaMarche. He organized those pilgrimage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bus tours. I don’t know if anybody still does that. But yeah, those were kind of fun.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s not like it’s going away, but once Campus Two opens up, I imagine a lot of the important things that are currently at One Infinite
⏹️ ▶️ John Loop will be moved to Campus Two. Like Tim Cook’s office is somewhere there at One Infinite Loop, and I assume it
⏹️ ▶️ John will move to Campus Two, as will many other people. Maybe the Apple Store will move, I don’t know. But this is the last
⏹️ ▶️ John moments that One Infinite Loop is the face of Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Hopefully I’ll get to see it sometime. Maybe, well, potentially I’ll have a lot of free time that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey week, so maybe I’ll rent a car and go check it out. Oh, I’m sad again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you a lot to our three sponsors this week, Betterment, Ring, and Fracture. and we will see you next
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, oh it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John And you can find the show notes at atp.fm
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss,
⏹️ ▶️ John M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T Marco Armin,
⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, they didn’t mean to
⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, tech podcast so long
Post-show: Canonical bagels
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh Did you reload your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey your email app I’ve been I’ve been looking at my bank and then telling myself You’re just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey jinxing it stop looking waiting five minutes looking again. You’re jinxing yourself stop looking
⏹️ ▶️ John Stop jinxing yourself
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly stop hitting yourself stop jinxing yourself to stop all the things and no no dice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if you want to have a bit of a neutral if we’ll unless we have something else to talk about about. I’m talking about my bagel post.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, so we have to cover your bagel post. So John, you blogged for the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first time in how long? Over a
⏹️ ▶️ John year, slightly over a year.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay, the content of your blog post is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bulleted list. Can you explain this blog post
⏹️ ▶️ John please? So on this podcast, it’s not called Developing Perspective and not called under the radar but is
⏹️ ▶️ John called top four some people one of whom is here talked about
⏹️ ▶️ John their top four bagel varieties or flavors and I listened to this podcast
⏹️ ▶️ John on the way out to San Francisco I thought I had prepared myself
⏹️ ▶️ John involved in the podcast grew up on Long Island like I did and the other person was Marco but I thought I felt
⏹️ ▶️ John like I was ready I was not ready for the list that would appear I could not have
⏹️ ▶️ John predicted these lists they were just more upsetting and fantastical
⏹️ ▶️ John and unexpected than I could have imagined. I paid for the in-flight Wi-Fi just so I
⏹️ ▶️ John could complain to Marco directly about this podcast. And I vowed that when I got done
⏹️ ▶️ John with this vacation I was going to blog again and what I was going to blog was the list of
⏹️ ▶️ John canonical bagel flavors. And that’s exactly what I did. I made a blog post
⏹️ ▶️ John that lists the canonical bagel flavors. And I feel like this needed to be done for
⏹️ ▶️ John posterity, that Google will spider it, that archive.org will archive it somewhere, that
⏹️ ▶️ John someday aliens will dig up our civilization when we’re long gone and find this blog
⏹️ ▶️ John post that is succinct to the point, not a lot of dancing around, it’s just a list that
⏹️ ▶️ John lists the canonical bagel flavors. And I feel much better having done it, and yes, it happens to be about a year since
⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. Yeah, so obviously I have some nitpicks here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The flavors you’ve listed are noticeably missing some of the ones that we mentioned during our show.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there are some that we even said during the show were not canonical old school bagels like the Asiago
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheese bagel. You know, that’s…
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think you need to say old school. Here’s, here’s… I didn’t want to put a lot of commentary in this because I don’t think it’s necessary for
⏹️ ▶️ John the post, but for the purposes of the podcast, there is a distinction to be made between this is not
⏹️ ▶️ John a bagel versus this is a canonical bagel flavor. You understand? distinction
⏹️ ▶️ John like the sort of, uh, you know, well, let’s make up. I’m trying to make
⏹️ ▶️ John up one that doesn’t actually exist and I don’t know if I’m going to succeed, but let’s say the cheesecake bagel
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I guarantee that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco exists somewhere in the Midwest.
⏹️ ▶️ John Someone has making that right. But there are bagels on this list that are bagels that are just not
⏹️ ▶️ John among the canonical bagel flavors. There were some difficult decisions to make. I’m not gonna lie. I thought I was going to rattle this thing off.
⏹️ ▶️ John Push came to shove. I had to make some very hard calls to you that some people are upset about and I understand their
⏹️ ▶️ John upset in this. The big one I feel like is garlic. Garlic bagel is a bagel, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah. It just missed the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco list. Well, so I’m curious. So like you have, obviously you have plain, poppy, sesame, everything. Those
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for bagel places, those are always like the top four that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John always sell. Not on your list.
⏹️ ▶️ John on your list, Mr. Asiago cheese. Oh, that was Tiff, sorry.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco By sales volume, actually I bet hot sugar cheese is up there for stores that do sell it, especially
⏹️ ▶️ Marco those in the Midwest. But- Not a bagel, by the way. No, it’s still, look, so anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there are some inconsistencies I think in your list. So obviously plain, poppy, sesame, everything, those have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be on every bagel list for, because just by sales volume people have voted and that’s what always
⏹️ ▶️ John No, that’s not how this list works.
⏹️ ▶️ John list does not work by sales volume.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but so I’m curious, you’ve included onion and salt but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not garlic. That seems inconsistent. That’s right.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a tough call. Here’s the, here’s the, there is a, if you go through this list, this list is like a little story,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? It’s not, it’s an unordered list. It’s OL or it’s, it’s a no UL, right? It’s not OL, it’s UL,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? It’s an unordered list, but there is an order. So I’m not, plain is there, but it’s not next to a number one, next to
⏹️ ▶️ John a bullet point. But this is the reason it’s at the top, right? It’s you start off and you feel like, you know, all right, plain
⏹️ ▶️ John poppy sesame. And I spent a long time thinking about whether poppy or sesame would come second,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? cinnamon raisin which Marco keeps omitting for some strange reason
⏹️ ▶️ Marco further down the list and for by sales volume by the way I think I think sesame out does poppy that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not sales volume does not factor into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think sales volume it would be plain everything sesame poppy
⏹️ ▶️ John it depends on where where it’s being sold and who’s buying all right so cinnamon raisin here
⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit and then you’ve got everything and you got egg everything why is egg
⏹️ ▶️ John everything why is egg everything even on this list why is is that not next to egg why is it under everything
⏹️ ▶️ John why does cinnamon raisin come between it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was gonna nitpick your inclusion of egg everything as well because I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think on a list that’s this restrictive and this short I don’t think egg everything belongs on that
⏹️ ▶️ John I know but like so here’s I spent a long time I spent the whole vacation thinking about this right
⏹️ ▶️ John why is it why is egg everything on listing garlic is not it just this is what it comes down to these are the canonical
⏹️ ▶️ John flavors garlic does not make the cut egg Egg everything does. Egg everything is the most borderline. If I
⏹️ ▶️ John had to delete one, I would delete egg everything. Right? If I had to make the list one shorter.
⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, but no, but this is it. Onion, onion makes it. Salt make it. Pumpernickel. People don’t talk about pumpernickel,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s there. I talked about
⏹️ ▶️ John You gotta talk about rye, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not- I said the rye family of flavors, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John includes- Yeah, you
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t- like in your typical one, I’m trying to pick 17 different bagels for your item
⏹️ ▶️ Marco number four. Pumpernickel is a rye.
⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but you have to pick one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco includes rye marble and pumpernickel in the pumper in the rye
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John family of bagels
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because most places don’t have all three of those and so if I want that I will pick whichever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of those they have that looks the best
⏹️ ▶️ John you also make the one that you didn’t know the name of which was like the one with oats on the outside that’s brown mm-hmm
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah what is that called according to you even though it isn’t on this list apparently unless it’s called egg everything
⏹️ ▶️ John the reason it’s not a list it doesn’t have a name some people call it multi-grain Some people call it like wheat
⏹️ ▶️ John or grain like that. It’s not even no it’s it’s not like the list Does not make the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey list. I have a question. What is it that makes? Bagels in New York
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Montreal of the Montreal is the loose definition of bagel What
⏹️ ▶️ Casey both of those what is it? What is it that makes both of those bagels so good?
⏹️ ▶️ John I I Don’t know There’s been a lot of research about this of
⏹️ ▶️ John is it the water is it the starter is it the what I think I? Mean obviously this is the basics like cooking technique
⏹️ ▶️ John like if you don’t boil your bagels You’re not making bagels, and that just forget it. They’re totally off the rails there But
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean this is recipe ingredients and preparation and and caring about what you make I mean like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco think about lenders
⏹️ ▶️ John bagels like lenders bagels or supermarket bagels it made in in techniques that
⏹️ ▶️ John That I have to scale up to huge volumes real bagels They make them in the morning and you come and buy them and as
⏹️ ▶️ John Marco pointed out on the show if you come in the Afternoon, they’re not as good and that’s just the kind of product You’re not gonna ship it in a truck
⏹️ ▶️ John across the country frozen. Like it’s just it’s not gonna be the same thing I don’t know why Montreal has a particular
⏹️ ▶️ John bagel culture, but it’s like bread like why is bread good in some places better? Why do you have like bad supermarket bread
⏹️ ▶️ John and some bakeries have really good bread and the bakeries have really good bread Where do you get that bread and when it’s a time
⏹️ ▶️ John of day and they make it every day and you know That’s that’s what it comes down to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you’re wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Here’s the thing The chat room is wrong, you’re wrong. I’m really disappointed in everyone. Though the origins
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of bagels are somewhat obscure, says the origin of truth Wikipedia, it is known that they were widely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey consumed in the Eastern European Jewish communities from the 17th century. The reason
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that New York bagels and Montreal air quote bagels air quote are so good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is because of the significant Jewish population in both of those cities. Of the three of us,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think we can unequivocally decide which one of us is the most Jewish of the three of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey us, and that is yours truly. And the fact that you two are arguing about something that you are completely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey unqualified to discuss, I just think it’s hysterical.
⏹️ ▶️ John False. You didn’t grow up in New York, the New York metro area. You know nothing
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey about bagels, Jon Snow.
⏹️ ▶️ John Really? Really. You know nothing about them. It doesn’t come as part of your genetics. You don’t make bagels for a living,
⏹️ ▶️ John and even if you did, you don’t make them in the New York metro area. People who know food know it from where they grew
⏹️ ▶️ John up with it. where the knowledge of the food comes from and not from any sort of not in your DNA
⏹️ ▶️ John and never mind like the heritage it’s like me claiming to know stuff about Italian food I know nothing about Italian food I’ve never been to Italy
⏹️ ▶️ John I know Italian American food because I’m Italian American and those immigrants came to where I grew up
⏹️ ▶️ John and they sold food there and I have I fully expect the New York metro area bagels had nothing
⏹️ ▶️ John to do with whatever bagels you’re talking about in the 17th century from Europe who knows what those were like all I know is what they’re like in the New York metro
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you forget that I spent a large portion of my childhood either in New York State
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or in Connecticut literally so close to New York I could walk and get there. That’s how
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s what people who are not in the New York metro area say about it. I was in Connecticut, that’s like New York.
⏹️ ▶️ John We have Frank Pepe’s. It’s just, no.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So two things. Number one, I think all of our cultural backgrounds aside, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think this is one of those things where you have to pull a GIF slash George Lucas and just say, you know what,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even though academically you should be right on this, you’re not. And secondly, only one of us
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still lives in the New York metro area.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, Marco, the only thing you can lord over us, Marco, is that you have access to good bagels.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And believe me, I am sufficiently
⏹️ ▶️ John jealous of that. Believe me. And sometimes when we discuss, you know, like we
⏹️ ▶️ John were talking about, like, what if Marco would ever move someplace other than New York? And I would say, why would he do that? He would
⏹️ ▶️ John be leaving behind pizza and bagels. Why Why would he ever move? I would hate you so much if you ever moved. I’d be like, you’re throwing
⏹️ ▶️ John it away! You’ve got it right there! You’ve got a house, you’ve got a Tesla, you’ve got a kid, you’ve got bagels and pizza,
⏹️ ▶️ John why would you ever go anywhere? Oh, self-employment tax, blah blah blah. No, just, it’s worth it for the bagels.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a reason I still tolerate all of New York’s BS, because I like a lot of the stuff here.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Believe me, New York has no shortage of BS and hostility that encourages people to flee.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco those of us who are still here which is one of us are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here for good reasons good round malted reasons
⏹️ ▶️ John to make it so that no one who listens to this podcast ever actually has to go to this blog post after the list it
⏹️ ▶️ John says also be allies
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah which I have no problem including be allies although I’m not sure I would call the the be Ali
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bagel flavor it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not it says also it’s a separate list also be allies
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but the title of the entire post is canonical bagel flavors and includes list
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and then it says
⏹️ ▶️ John these are the canonical bagel flavors and it gives a list and it says also
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco be allies it’s trying to say
⏹️ ▶️ John also be allies exist and they are good and
⏹️ ▶️ John good although I’m not so sure about your supermarket be allies I feel like something is up here
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you should next time you’re here I’ll have you try one you can tell me how it compares I have had be allies from like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco good bagel bakeries and stuff and they’re good too, but the supermarket ones I think are just better than the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones I’ve had. Now, granted, I haven’t looked very hard at like what’s the best bialy in Westchester or the city.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I haven’t looked that hard. But the bialys I’ve had at bagel places have not been substantially
⏹️ ▶️ Marco better or better at all than the ones I get from my local grocery store. Now, I know that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably, I’m probably missing something big here because that shouldn’t be the
⏹️ ▶️ John case. I mean, maybe they’re buying them from a local bagel place. It could be the same. You have to know where they’re sourced from. It could
⏹️ ▶️ John be the same thing. It could be the bagel place that goes into the supermarket and sells them. But anyway, I’m not a big
⏹️ ▶️ John fan of Bialy’s, but I always felt like when we would get bagels growing up, there’d be one
⏹️ ▶️ John or two Bialy’s thrown in. They’d get eaten. You know? It’s just in the mix.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Where do we go from here?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John How can we, I mean…
⏹️ ▶️ John We gotta go to Margo’s house and buy bagels.
Post-show: Tesla perception
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, what were we going to talk about the Tesla? I was in a Tesla earlier today.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I just had a minor update, but it’s not time sensitive. So you can, let’s hear about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco your time in a Tesla.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it really was uneventful. I went from work to my favorite local barbecue
⏹️ ▶️ Casey joint and then back. And I was a passenger, but it was good.
⏹️ ▶️ John Cool. All right. Were you in the back seat or front seat?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I was in the front seat. I fiddled with the comically absurdly ridiculously
⏹️ ▶️ Casey oversized touch screen. I learned that Tesla
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has its own Pandora-esque service.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, no, it’s Slacker.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, whatever it is. Okay. I learned the web browser is being used by enterprising
⏹️ ▶️ Casey developers to make kind of sort of third-party mega air quotes, apps mega
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, the browser’s terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but I forget what underscore had on his, but it was something that like integrated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey traffic and issue reporting from Waze with the onboard GPS because it just uses
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the HTML5 location API. And I don’t recall exactly what the URL was. I don’t recall exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what it was called, but it would show a map with the stuff that Waze reported. And Waze is very
⏹️ ▶️ Casey good about having up to the second accurate reports on traffic conditions and obstructions
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and police officers and things of that nature. So he had that up on his web browser. Well, he didn’t have the web
⏹️ ▶️ Casey browser up at all, but when I was fiddling with it while he was driving, that’s the last thing he had had up
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on his web browser. That was pretty neat. I don’t know, it’s impressive.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, I tried when I first got it, I actually tried to see, can I use that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as an overcast interface? And the basic answer is no, because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there is no ability for the browser to play audio. I assume for safety
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or DOT regulations, they’ve disabled audio and video elements from playing in the built-in browser.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But video makes sense, audio I don’t think does, because there’s lots of other ways to play audio from
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the internet in the Tesla, so I don’t know. Fair enough, so what’s your update? So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just, I wanted to put somewhere, and it was either gonna be a blog post or here, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco here is probably the better place for it, just the sheer difference
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in how other people seem to be perceiving me having
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Tesla, like people in the world, my neighbors, things like that. So, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco coming from a loud, black, sporty BMW
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a silent, red, environmental future car,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like the way, like, so I know, like, I know immediately, like, my neighbors the people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the block hated hearing my loud car and they probably thought I was a jerk for driving it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And even when I wasn’t going fast, it sounded like I was going fast and I would imagine that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t win me any favors around the block. And nobody ever commented,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if I was getting out of the car or if somebody saw me in it with the windows down or in the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco parking lot, nobody ever commented positively about the BMW except
⏹️ ▶️ Marco occasionally like some like dude in his 20s. Hey nice, you know something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that, but that would be it. Car
⏹️ ▶️ John guys, car guys look appreciatively. I look at appreciatively at the M cars that I see.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still, but anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But people would make snarky comments about the loudness
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of it or whatever?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely, yeah, neighbors and yeah, like you know, it was noticed and was generally
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not appreciated by many of the people around it. And I just kind of like, you just kind of get the feel
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like people think I’m a jerk by driving this car. You know, because you kind of seem like a jerk
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you drive a loud.
⏹️ ▶️ John You think that Tesla is helping with that? Or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hurting? Right, so I expected, you know, this might be, you know, a little bit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco worse in some ways, especially because now it’s red, so it’s more, it’s kind of more in your face. But,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco turns out, the way people treat somebody driving a red Tesla is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way more positive than the way they treat people driving a loud black BMW. So,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all, I have gotten so many questions from people about it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This has been the biggest, and this is kind of what I wanted to talk about. It’s like, the amount of questions I’ve gotten has been
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shocking, and most of the questions are roughly in the same small
⏹️ ▶️ Marco group of buckets, but what’s interesting, I think, is just like, when you’re driving a loud black sports car,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even in an area like where I live, there’s lots of BMWs, But even in an area with lots
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of other lab-lacked
⏹️ ▶️ John sports cars. M5 is not a sports car, point of order.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco OK. I’m not sure I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John agree with that, but OK. You don’t agree
⏹️ ▶️ John with that? The M5 is not a sports car. It’s a sports sedan.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey agree with that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know if Coops cornered the market on good cars.
⏹️ ▶️ John You guys can be happy to be wrong. It is not a sports car. That’s fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I tell you what, whether or not it is a sports car, and I know Marco said this, but I think I should double down
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this. Like it is really loud, like stunningly loud for a stock,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey completely unmodified car. And you could absolutely hear Marco coming from several
⏹️ ▶️ Casey houses away, if not like a block or two
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John away. Yeah, I think it’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey block. And that’s not even necessarily because he tends to drive quickly, just in general.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like if you’ve heard a loud car and you’re thinking to yourself, oh yeah, whatever. I’ve heard a loud car, they’re not that loud.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, really. This thing is very loud, or the M5 was very,
⏹️ ▶️ John I like that. It made a good sound on the outside.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, me too. Me too. I’m not complaining. I’m not complaining at all. I’m just saying, if you’ve never heard an M5,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would be surprised about how loud it is.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and all the M cars are tuned specifically to be loud. Like the 1M was that loud. All the M3s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are that loud. Like that’s just, it’s, that’s intentional, you know? So anyway, and, and I didn’t, you know, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wouldn’t choose that. I didn’t have it because it was loud. I had it because it was fast. And it just so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco happened that to get things that fast, you had to also get them loud because that’s just the way they were sold, because most people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco who buy them want them to be that loud. Anyway, so now I have this silent car
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that is, I guess, more friendly. And so I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting tons of compliments on it from strangers, oftentimes, or people who have never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco commented about my car before. When I get out of the parking lot, I’ll have questions from people like, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that, what is that? Is that electric? Is that a Tesla? And so first of all, Tesla
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a level of awareness in the public that is way higher than I expected.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s almost like an Apple level of awareness. The amount of questioning I get and the excitement people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have over it is almost like when the iPhone first came out. If you had the very first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone, you’d have people would see you with it and be like, oh my God, is that the iPhone? And they’d
⏹️ ▶️ Marco start asking you a couple questions about it or they’d wanna see it. That’s how people are with the Tesla. Everyone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems to know, first of all, that there’s a super fast one, and so I always have to kind of say, no, I didn’t get that one. So, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re always like, oh, is this the insane one? No, I didn’t get the insane one. It’s still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey so I didn’t get that one. And then- Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how the mighty have fallen. I know, right? And then, and then everyone also knows about autopilot.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like this, and this was, this was kind of surprising because I didn’t think it made that big of a splash and or it was that big of a deal. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s like, is this the one that can steer itself? And again, these are like not necessarily like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco car nerds. It’s like, like regular people know. And they’re asking about this, and they ask, oh, how
⏹️ ▶️ Marco does it go on the highway? Can you fill it up? And some people ask, is there also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a gas engine? And blah, blah, blah. So I’m doing a lot of explaining. And I assume, if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you were one of the people who had the first Prius, I assume that you got a lot of questioning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there. Even if you had one of the first electric vehicles that were pure electric,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the Nissan Leaf or something like that, I would imagine you’d occasionally get a question from somebody,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they saw you plugging it in, and so that would kind of call out that this is something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco different. But this is like, when I’m just driving around, everyone just is really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco curious about this car, and I’m getting so many questions. The one thing that seems to blow people’s mind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most, well, two things. Number one, how much space there is inside, if they look inside. Number two,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big thing that blows everyone’s mind is that superchargers are free.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco interesting. That idea, you know, it’s just like how, how things being free make people’s brains
⏹️ ▶️ Marco explode. I’m witnessing that. Whenever, because they will inevitably ask, how do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you do it on long highway drives, can you do it? And I’ll mention the superchargers. And they always
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ask, oh, but how much does it cost to fill up with those? And so, oh, it’s free, it’s included.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they’re like, what? And they cannot, it blows their mind that you can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fill up for free, even if it takes 45 minutes. It blows their mind that this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just free, Even though, if they charge for it, it would probably only be like $2. It wouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a lot of money if they’re charging whatever a fair rate would be for that electricity. But just the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea of that being free just blows people’s minds. It’s really interesting, and I’ve never gotten
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the level of strangers coming up to me about anything that I have about this car.
⏹️ ▶️ John So did you sell some Teslas, or did they eventually ask you how much it costs and then they run away?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I tend to not bring up the cost, and they don’t either. And so I, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also a lot of them know about the Model 3. A lot of them are like, oh yeah, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco heard about the new one, it’s gonna be a lot cheaper. So I’m telling you, like the level of like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco awareness, public awareness and public interest in this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco company is way off the charts compared to what I expected.
⏹️ ▶️ John So how old are the people who are asking these questions? Is it kids,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco adults, really old people? I mean, there aren’t that many kids in this area, honestly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say… You’re not going to let the
⏹️ ▶️ John No, well, yeah. Well, like, so say you arrive to get chicken salad and a Lamborghini. The five kids
⏹️ ▶️ John that are in your town would be talking to you about that car, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Probably. But yeah, no, I mean, like, most of the people asking are, I’d say, in their 40s to 60s. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John average who you would expect to see? Just the people that are there? I’m just wondering if it attracts it, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John the Tesla awareness, is it skewing young or old?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say it’s all over the map. Like the electricians who were here the other day, they’ve seen them before because they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have installed Tesla outlets for people before, but they were asking all sorts of questions about it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it was an older guy and a younger guy.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco When I was getting lunch today, one of the clerks at the post office, who I knew from going in there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a few times, she was in the parking lot. She’s like, oh my God, that’s your car? That’s beautiful. And she called
⏹️ ▶️ Marco her husband out of her car to come see it. is so interested in this car.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s not like, like, this is not the first Tesla in my neighborhood. There’s there’s at least four others that I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I see around on a regular basis. So like, it’s not and have for a while now. So it’s not like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially like the first one that’s been around. How much of a factor do you think the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco color is? Certainly some, you know, because being a red car, but it’s not like, you know, there are other red cars
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s it’s there’s lots of other red cars in town. It’s not like Ferrari red, it’s not like a bright
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cherry, it’s kind of like a medium red, it’s not like super intense. It doesn’t seem like it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be that visually catchy of a car. Like, it doesn’t look that unusual compared to other cars.
⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of unusual cars when I was out in California, I saw for the first time i-3s
⏹️ ▶️ John which are everywhere there and are butt-ugly. Yes. And the Model X which are also all over there and are also butt-ugly.
⏹️ ▶️ John I have not seen an X yet in person. There was a lot of them, A lot of them in California do not like.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I can’t argue with
⏹️ ▶️ John that. Just as ungainly, I saw one in white. It literally looked like one of those, what
⏹️ ▶️ John do you call it? The, those whales that are white.
⏹️ ▶️ John Starts with a B maybe, chat room, help me out.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Beluga? Casey’s BMW?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh-huh, I’m already hurting. You don’t need to stab me in the back too, you know. God,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a tough crowd tonight.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I’m sorry about your white car, Casey.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not, sorry about my lack of a ticket, but I’m not sorry about my white car. You should be. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t look like Moby Dick. Moby Dick was a sperm whale. I think, right? I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John know. I don’t know if they say
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco in the book.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You think I actually read any of the books I’m supposed to read in school?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know. Do you like, Marco, having these people come up and ask you these questions? Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey obviously there’s times when it’s convenient, times where it isn’t, but in the grand scheme of things, do you find it kind of neat,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or are you kind of like, dudes, leave me alone?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I don’t, I mean, so far it’s just kind of, it’s novel, you know, because I’ve never had anybody express that kind of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco interest in the things I was driving in the chicken salad parking lot.
⏹️ ▶️ John So he’s going to print out laminated cards to just hand to people. As soon
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey as someone asks a question, ah,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco here, take this card. Here’s an FAQ.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, ask me again in a year. It might have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gotten old by that point, but no, so far it’s just kind of cool. Like I,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I mean, environmental people who drive fun cars, who drive like, you know, like the first hybrids or the first EVs, like, you know, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people have had these questions for other owners before. And I’ve seen people write about it. And like, it seems like it’s kind
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like, just kind of a fun thing of having these cars. I think what surprises me is that it’s still going on. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kind of thought we’d be past the stage where these things would be novel, but we’re not.