Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

159: A Typo On Your Brake Pads

The Ferrari Siracusa, the history of HFS+, and TVs. Yup, John was here.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Pre-show Neutral
  2. Follow-up: Mono/Xamarin
  3. Sponsor:
  4. Apple disables Ethernet kext
  5. Sponsor: Igloo
  6. HFS to HFS+ transition
  7. John discovers Blu-ray ripping
  8. Sponsor: Casper (code ATP)
  9. Back to DVD+R
  10. Ending theme
  11. Post-show: So anyway…

Pre-show Neutral

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Every single person on Twitter is telling me about the Bernie Sanders

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fish thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Didn’t that happen like a day or two ago? I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you can lump them in with all the people telling me about the latest aftermarket Ferrari

⏹️ ▶️ John with my name on it. We gotta

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco talk about that. This could be our pre-show

⏹️ ▶️ Marco neutral. There is a Ferrari, now how do they say it? Is it Syracusa?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or do they say it a

⏹️ ▶️ John different way? This is not a new thing. company has done this to every

⏹️ ▶️ John mid-engine v8 ferrari for like the past three generations like it’s not it’s they always look yellow and black

⏹️ ▶️ John uh they’re always kind of gaudy they always have that same name

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they always have the name

⏹️ ▶️ John syracuse yeah well that’s some what’s the first part so it’s been m or something masonry it’s like an aftermarket

⏹️ ▶️ John tuner like uh like uh like rough yeah or uh what’s the bmw almost the d

⏹️ ▶️ John d and danaan i don’t know how it’s a dinan is how i’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always pronounced it. It’s pronounced Syracuse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Sailing for

⏹️ ▶️ John Mustangs and you know. Anyway, they do this all the time. But you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John every time it comes out someone, someone sees it for the first time and they tell me. I’ve never seen this before.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have. I have sent you the picture of like the 458 version. I’ve never seen it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m telling you, I don’t think you’ve said

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John this. I think I also

⏹️ ▶️ John sent you that maybe the one I didn’t know you before that, but I’ve, you’ve seen it before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. So, so what? So it’s just like an aftermarket modder that that mods and resells messed up Ferraris

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with your name on them

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yep

⏹️ ▶️ John cool all right and there are and there is yellow and black which some people find gaudy so do I like I would never

⏹️ ▶️ John pick those colors but I don’t think they’re as hideous as a lot of people do I mean it’s like if you’re gonna go yellow and black it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John sure as hell as yellow and black isn’t I mean it’s like the you know lime green Lamborghinis or whatever like some people

⏹️ ▶️ John some people like that for their exotic cars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of curiosity so they kind of like to pass the John test here if you were given one of these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would you sell it for a different one yeah or would you keep this one sell sell sell

⏹️ ▶️ John sell because like I mean you get good money for it it would have no miles

⏹️ ▶️ John on it it would be brand new and these specially modified ones like they do for people who want this you know they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John all lightened and have extra carbon fiber in them and also this stuff you you’d get good money for it you could buy a standard I would rather

⏹️ ▶️ John have a box stock boring red one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than this you know I I like to think in in in my peaceful happy place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my mind that people who would who would have the means to buy a ferrari

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this would have better taste than to choose this one

⏹️ ▶️ John but i don’t think it’s that i don’t think it’s that bad likely i don’t think is untasteful like for example

⏹️ ▶️ John i think the like the baby food uh… metallic orange weird

⏹️ ▶️ John are mustardy kind of yellow bmw’s are uh… unpleasing this looks like

⏹️ ▶️ John a matchbox car you know like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and i’ll give you that

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re going for that look, it’s like, don’t go halfway. If you want to have like fins and flares

⏹️ ▶️ John and extreme contrasting colors, like this is that, and it is a reasonable execution of

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I think it is a valid aesthetic. Like it’s like the difference between the old difference between

⏹️ ▶️ John a Lamborghini and Ferrari. Lamborghini was always how many intakes and ducks

⏹️ ▶️ John and sharp angles and fins and wedges and stuff we put on there. And Ferrari was a little bit smoother. And this is kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John taking a Ferrari and going in the Lamborghini direction. So I don’t think it’s actually ugly. I just think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s too loud for my taste. But I think it is a competent execution of that style.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So if you were given one, immediately sell? Yep. I think I would, too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I absolutely would. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John my- I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, it’s worth good money. Like, you would get more money than selling a regular one, because it is more rare, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it has desirable characteristics for people who want to race them, or whatever you want to do with this thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. Sometimes mods make something less valuable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco venture to say that most mods make cars less valuable.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not for aftermarket things. Like again, if you got a BMW with a bunch of aftermarket modifications, that

⏹️ ▶️ John is desirable for anyone who wants an aftermarket modified BMW. They will give you more money than

⏹️ ▶️ John a fresh off the lot stock BMW.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Honestly, well, when I did buy a used BMW, I specifically sought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one out that was unmodified. And then when I went, I had to drive to Maryland to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see the one I found, and it was the windows were all tinted. And I’m like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t want that. You know, but I figured that’s easy to undo. So I brought it, I bought that one, brought it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home and immediately brought it to a tint place to remove all the tint.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I didn’t know that, is that right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. That was the one, well that, it was chipped also. It was like ECU modded. Yeah. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know, I’m just not, I’m not a modder, so I don’t really understand the whole deal with it or the whole culture

⏹️ ▶️ Marco behind it. So I just assume that it’s just not for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you know, it depends on what you’re after, right? Like, I agree with you that I would never, ever,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ever buy a car that I’ve known to be modified. But that being said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I put a chip in my car, which is to say, I mean, I say put a chip in it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s all software, you know, there’s no physical bits to it. But I did that to my car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have a cob on it. And I like it. But- A what? It’s a cob. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey COBB. that has a box

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that lets you reprogram the computer. And so that’s what I’ve done to my car. And it’s better for sure, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey faster and I like it, but I wouldn’t say that it’s night and day better. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is the first car I can remember that I’ve done any sort of real modification to. I’ve never tinted a car even though I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of would like to, but it’s not worth it. I’ve never put aftermarket wheels on a car.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, not worth that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You should have seen how ridiculous I looked getting out of a car with black tinted windows.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I actually kind of am sad that I didn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It lasted less than a week. That was literally the first thing I did when I brought her home. Like, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John drove

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it home

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think that same day I called a tint place to schedule an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey appointment to get it taken

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off. That’s not surprising. John, have you ever done any sort of mods to your car?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, but if I did I would do the ones like the ones of those the aftermarket tuners that I described before, like

⏹️ ▶️ John where they do things that try to make the car better. Like so lightweight parts take

⏹️ ▶️ John some part that’s heavy and put in a part that is equally strong, but lighter. Like that’s always good. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or, you know, inside the engine, if you could change like titanium connecting rods to get, you know, to increase the red

⏹️ ▶️ John line or whatever, like those type of modifications seem to me more. So they’re exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John things that the M division does, that AMG does or whatever, you know, like changes that actually

⏹️ ▶️ John make the car better in whatever way you want to make the car better. less window tinting and custom

⏹️ ▶️ John paint and ground effects and more, um, more of the things that the manufacturer would do

⏹️ ▶️ John to make the car better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. All right. Well, uh, I’m sad that you would not be a fan of the Ferrari Syracuse.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, I don’t know what, I mean, if the roles were reversed and that was the Ferrari list, I mean, how could you not? Although that would be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a terrible,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it’s nice that it has

⏹️ ▶️ John your name all over the thing, but it just, yeah, I don’t, that’s not what I want to have a Ferrari. I want it to be red.

⏹️ ▶️ John Call me crazy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What would a Ferrari list be?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know. Oh, of course, it’d be white. That’s it, we’re done.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Same as it ever was.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John You’d get the four-wheel drive

⏹️ ▶️ John one, right? The ugly four-wheel drive one. Oh, would you two stop?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you want. Yeah, that’s it. All right, can we move on to follow-up?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you

Follow-up: Mono/Xamarin

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I probably should have done some research about the mono Xamarin confusion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we got a handful of emails about this and I promptly looked at them and said, yeah, it’s whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then I archive them. Do you want to take a stab, John, to explain?

⏹️ ▶️ John I was going to stop you when you were saying it during the show, but I figured just let it slide and no one really cares. But apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of people care. I don’t know all the details of this, but I at least know that mono was the name was not this was not

⏹️ ▶️ John interchangeable with Xamarin. Xamarin was a company name. was the name of the open source implementation

⏹️ ▶️ John of.NET and they’re related to each other, but it’s not as if Mono became Xamarin.

⏹️ ▶️ John Some people wrote us to tell us things that we talked about on previous shows, that what Xamarin was doing was making a way for you to write

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS applications by writing in C Sharp to use their framework and you could deploy to iOS and other platforms

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff. And Microsoft buying them gives them a company that lets you write applications

⏹️ ▶️ John in C Sharp and have them run on more than just Windows Phone. we’d have a whole show where we talked

⏹️ ▶️ John about that, like what it would be like to write to write an iOS app in C sharp.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We talked about it a long time ago so long ago that it’s not likely I’m gonna bother putting show notes.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, I think the only people who care are people who already know the intricacies better than we do.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the people who don’t, we can just leave it at if you want to know more details about it,

⏹️ ▶️ John look it up. What we said on the last show was a little bit muddled. But then again,

⏹️ ▶️ John this whole thing I feel like is a little bit muddled, like trying to figure out what they’re doing with this technology. What products does Xamarin

⏹️ ▶️ John have now versus what is Microsoft buying? They’re buying the people, the expertise. Do they care?

⏹️ ▶️ John How much do they care about the products that the company has now versus the company that Microsoft wants them to build

⏹️ ▶️ John or maybe take what they’ve already built and modified in one way or another? And there was this flurry of stories about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. You mentioned some of them too, Casey, like the past few weeks about Microsoft’s various projects

⏹️ ▶️ John to let people run applications from other mobile platforms

⏹️ ▶️ John on Windows Mobile. So like, you know, take your iOS app and run it on on Windows Phone or

⏹️ ▶️ John on Windows 10 or whatever, and we’ll run Android apps or you’ll be able to recompile your Android

⏹️ ▶️ John apps for Windows Phone. I forget what they were called. Weren’t they all the kinds of like Woods

⏹️ ▶️ John Island would

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey some like Pinewood

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway. Obviously, we’re not keeping up on the all these various projects, a couple of them

⏹️ ▶️ John were canned recently, a couple of them live on. It’s all part of Microsoft’s ongoing struggle to

⏹️ ▶️ John figure out how to take what is by all accounts a reasonable mobile

⏹️ ▶️ John platform, at least as reasonable as Android, certainly better than Android was in Android’s early days, and try to find

⏹️ ▶️ John a way to make it viable in the market. Um, because at this point, Android

⏹️ ▶️ John and iOS have so much momentum that they’re just trying to, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to get customers, trying to get developers. It’s the really tough chicken egg

⏹️ ▶️ John situation that Apple found itself in with the Mac, where the PC just came to dominate, and no matter how much

⏹️ ▶️ John better the Mac was, it was just difficult to get people to develop for it. And one

⏹️ ▶️ John of the strategies people suggested is, oh, Mac should run Windows programs, or it should be easy to write a program

⏹️ ▶️ John for Windows and port that program to the Mac. And Apple steadfastly held against that, saying, no,

⏹️ ▶️ John we don’t want people to… we know that might get people to port their applications,

⏹️ ▶️ John but those would be crappy Windows ports. We want people to write real Mac applications, and be real

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac developers, and do everything the right way. Was that a mistake? Would it have

⏹️ ▶️ John made no difference? I don’t know. It’s what Apple did. It’s certainly kind of the high road.

⏹️ ▶️ John Microsoft is kind of trying everything at this point, what if we make it easier for you to take your iOS application and

⏹️ ▶️ John use some of that, some or all of that work to get that same application running on Windows? Would that

⏹️ ▶️ John help get developers? What if we will run Android apps, period? Just we’ll take the binaries and run them somehow magically, like

⏹️ ▶️ John all sorts of ideas to try to get some traction in the market. To my

⏹️ ▶️ John eyes, as someone who supported Apple’s decisions not to license Mac OS

⏹️ ▶️ John and everything back in the days, I think those efforts are not going to help them. But, you know, at least they’re trying,

⏹️ ▶️ John right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I mean, I guess. So yeah, so I’m sorry to the to the people who are really into mono

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Xamarin in this whole ecosystem.

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Apple disables Ethernet kext

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Audible for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Apple made an oops in the last week. Oh, geez, this is bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is so bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not that bad. It’s funny.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the fix was really easy. All right. So what are we talking about here? Casey, you’re the summarizer.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am the summarizer in chief, am I not? So my understanding of the situation was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple has a mechanism by way they can blacklist kernel extensions.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I can’t think of any particular examples offhand, but there are times when a kernel extension will go bad and they can blacklist

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s usually used for malware. Like if they discover some kind of kernel extension malware, this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the I think the intention of this system is to is for them to be able to very quickly disable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it on all Macs, you know, globally, within a very short amount of time.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the other example I can think of is the one from this thing, which is if they have a new version of an extension,

⏹️ ▶️ John because they all know the old one, now they can exploit something like their own like their own kernel extensions. They want to

⏹️ ▶️ John blacklist the old one so that you know so that people’s Macs aren’t exploitable because they’ll give

⏹️ ▶️ John you a new one here use this new one and then by the way make sure the old one isn’t ever loaded again because we know there’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John problem with that one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep right and this this extends like we’re having clarification from tips from tips from the chat room this extends also to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco binaries to apps like if they can blacklist any binary that is deemed malware and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it really is a very good feature for malware for the you know to prevent the spread of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it to disable stuff that’s out there. So it’s a good feature that I’m glad it’s there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco However, they messed something up this time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, so it’s important to note that these blacklist entries

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can ride without doing a formal software update. Of course, it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some sort of software update that’s happening behind the scenes. But the key is that it’s happening behind the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey scenes. And so without any user intervention, you can just have this update, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blacklist update happen to you and things that are blacklisted will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just magically go away. Well I didn’t really think much of this or maybe I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even know about it, but then a few days ago I could swear I saw Jason Snell saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all of a sudden my IMAX Ethernet port isn’t working anymore. Is anyone else seeing this?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What’s going on here? And mine was working on my IMAX. I didn’t think much of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it and then fast forward about 24 hours and it turns out that Apple blacklisted their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey own Ethernet driver

⏹️ ▶️ John Whoops without shipping a replacement because that was that’s that’s that’s my understanding

⏹️ ▶️ John is that’s where this went wrong They had a new version of this driver. It’s coming with like 10 11 4 or whatever, which is not out

⏹️ ▶️ John yet. I think still And So

⏹️ ▶️ John they blacklisted the old one and there you know You’re supposed to get the blacklist at the same time you get the upgrade to the new

⏹️ ▶️ John one. But instead, the blacklist for the old one went out, but the upgrade to the new one did not. So if you’re Jason Snell,

⏹️ ▶️ John all of a sudden your Mac appears not to have an Ethernet port or however this manifested, like basically, the Ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ John is not going to go because the kernel extension will not be loaded and you have no replacement.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and and the and they did within I don’t know a few hours, maybe like they did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fairly quickly fix that with like the next definition, the next version of the definitions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it downloads. But that didn’t do you any good if you rebooted in the meantime

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there and then you had no Ethernet with which to download that update. And not to mention

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the fact that I think it’s not like it comes up and tells you error dialogue,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hey, your Ethernet kernel extension is no longer working because we deemed it insecure. They don’t tell you anything. It just fails

⏹️ ▶️ Marco silently. Your Ethernet just disappears if you reboot.

⏹️ ▶️ John These software updates, they happen facelessly behind the scenes. You don’t see them. They don’t go through like you know

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no spinner there’s no dialogue there’s no thing popping up there’s no like oh I see the Mac App Store launching

⏹️ ▶️ John none of that happens just magically gets updated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and as far as I know you can’t disable it right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you probably can you can disable I mean you could like firewall it but like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know if like there’s no setting to not do those

⏹️ ▶️ John right probably just rename the the binary that it uses if uses if it doesn’t use like software update D or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever you can there’s always ways to stop this stuff but yeah in general for the regular person there is no way there’s no button or checkbox

⏹️ ▶️ John or preference pane for you to not do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And I mean, so, you know, the good thing is, like, at least it didn’t also affect Wi-Fi. So that probably cut

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down substantially on the number of computers that were affected by this. Because who uses the internet, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, well, geeks like us. And a lot of people, turns out. But, you know, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s most concerning about this, like, look, no one’s perfect, but it just seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, to me, a lot like the same kind of problem as the whole Mac App Store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certificate expiration problem that happened twice in the last few months. Just the latter one seemed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to only happen to developers. But, you know, where it just seems like there’s this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really critical function of the system that something seemingly just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rushed out there without being tested or with some degree of carelessness. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t bode well for the Mac when And Apple seems to not be devoting the resources

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to what should be their most stable, secure platform. Like, the Mac should be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rock. It should be rock stable because it is mature. It’s not changing that quickly anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not like, it isn’t like iOS where things are moving really fast and there’s constantly new stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s the rock. It should be stable. And the fact that they’re doing things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this with some kind of failure in the process where things are getting out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that break things pretty badly like this. It really makes me concerned for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the process they have in place to validate these things and to test for these things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and for the overall amount of resources that they’re giving the Mac. Because everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we keep hearing from people inside the company is that basically, whenever there’s a new hot project,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco engineers get moved around like crazy. There’s constantly engineers getting pulled off of of certain projects or going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work at a more interesting group or whatever else, it seems like there’s lots of internal moving of people around,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that often leaves things effectively staffless. And it feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me, from the outside, like most of the Mac is effectively staffless.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s concerning to me. And because what happens then, when things are staffless

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this inside Apple, what What tends to happen is, at some point, a year later,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody dictates, Hey, we need to have a new version of OS X with 10 new features or 100 new features

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever. And then people get temporarily brought in and they do this kind of drive-by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work. And then they go back to other stuff. And again, I don’t know if this is how it works, but this is how it feels. And this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matches up with a little bit of things we’ve heard. And so it just seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple does not dedicate resources full-time to things that I think need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco full-time resources. And that to me is very concerning.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know what to make of it. I mean, on the one side, I feel like Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey job as a hardware and software vendor is not to make this mistake. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just like we were talking about with the police officers earlier, everyone’s human, everyone makes mistakes. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know if it’s fair for us to try to assume

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what happened. I mean, I don’t know if this is somebody dropped the ball. I don’t know if this is somebody hit a button a little too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey early accidentally. It doesn’t really matter, but certainly a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of what we’ve talked about in a couple of different subjects over the last few episodes of the show is perception. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when we’re already of the perception that Apple doesn’t have the attention into detail that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they used to, things like this doesn’t really help.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Similarly, another similar example is Stephen Hackett noticing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just the other day, and I don’t know how I never noticed this, that there’s a really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of crummy and semi-egregious typo in disk utility.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He says at the bottom of this post, while this may seem silly, because it’s just a typo, not like functionally broken.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey While this may seem silly, it’s this attention to detail stuff that worries me about Apple software.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s, I think why we’re harping on this is because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple, companies of this size and companies that tout

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how much they pay attention to detail, they shouldn’t really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make mistakes like these. And if they do, they shouldn’t be often. And granted, blacklisting an Ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey driver is very, very different than transposing a couple of words in disk utility, but—

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, but you know what? Disk utility, first of all, that was part of a big disk utility

⏹️ ▶️ Marco update and redesign that probably didn’t need to happen. I’m not familiar with the logic that went in behind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, but it’s a system utility that got basically a redesign that removed a bunch of features

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and made it look nicer. Only geeks were ever using this. This doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need to be made nicer in a way that negatively affected it. And it’s like, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t want disk utility, of all things, to have a drive-by, sloppily done update.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A typo in disk utility is like a typo on your brake pads. You really don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want any signs of carelessness in that. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it worries me that it just seems like nothing is off limits for carelessness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Mac and with what Apple’s working on. And again, like so many people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us included, depend on this platform to be stable and to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our rock where we get our work done. It doesn’t move that fast anymore, but we don’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is the stability here in an industry where all the mobile stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is always up in the air and always crazy and everything’s constantly in beta. At

⏹️ ▶️ Marco best, we get to like a point two or point three point release on things before we get the next new version that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a total mess again. At least the Mac should be stable. It should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be the rock. It should not be getting careless updates or careless actions,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it should not be short-staffed.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I think the Ethernet driver, I don’t consider that a big deal because, like, think of how long this mechanism has existed

⏹️ ▶️ John and think of how many times they’ve messed it up. Like, this is the only time I can think of that they’ve messed it up, and it’s existed for a long time, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it was fixed very easily, and it’s very simple. So So I totally give them a pass on that one. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John reminded of like, you guys don’t remember this, Mac OS 754, or System 754, sorry, it was not Mac OS 754.

⏹️ ▶️ John I blame the internet for that. That they had

⏹️ ▶️ John basically two versions of, like that it reached golden master back in the days when that actually meant something because they would

⏹️ ▶️ John print floppy disks and stuff. And then they had to stop and say, oh no, actually,

⏹️ ▶️ John we made a mistake and here’s the new new version. But some of the old version got out. So for a certain period of time,

⏹️ ▶️ John there were multiple official binaries of system 7.5.4

⏹️ ▶️ John and floppy disks floating around. Or you couldn’t be sure exactly which one you have is they all just said 7.5.4 and they

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t have build numbers visible to users at that time. So anyway, stuff like that happens. It’s not a big deal. The

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac App Store certificate signing thing. I think that is emblematic of like, well, this is supposed to be

⏹️ ▶️ John a major feature and you have the iOS App Store and it’s the type of thing that is really complicated and hard to get

⏹️ ▶️ John right and requires forethought and care. And like, it’s not so simple as like, oops, well, just

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll just wait, you know, and another silent update will fix this. Lots of people were left in situations where their apps wouldn’t launch

⏹️ ▶️ John and a lot of stuff. And that I think shows a lack of investment in the Mac of like not

⏹️ ▶️ John not being prepared for that eventuality because like because if you think of something like that happened on the iPhone, and then for the same period of time, the

⏹️ ▶️ John same percentage of iPhone users would tap icons in their phones and nothing would launch. That would be just a disaster

⏹️ ▶️ John of epic proportions. I mean, and in some degrees, like, well, the iPhone sells more, that’s so I get some more attention or whatever, but

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, we all think there should be a little bit more care on the Mac. And the disk utility one, disk

⏹️ ▶️ John utility is the least of disk systems problems. I think it did need a GUI refresh.

⏹️ ▶️ John This GUI refresh is not a great GUI refresh, but I don’t think anyone would care that much if

⏹️ ▶️ John it wasn’t for the two things that Marco mentioned, removing features, which is like, I was using that. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you haven’t replaced it with anything. There’s no promise of being replaced with anything. the old

⏹️ ▶️ John thing worked. Why is it gone with no explanation? So removing features is bad. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John having I should put a link to the show notes, but someone linked to something I think it was

⏹️ ▶️ John MJ sigh again, linking to the story in case we were just talking about,

⏹️ ▶️ John about the typo, but just saying like, super duper leverages some of the same command line utilities

⏹️ ▶️ John and frameworks that are underneath disc utility. And super duper has a mode where it will clone

⏹️ ▶️ John your drive and you can tell it erase the destination drive first and then clone on to it

⏹️ ▶️ John and he was getting like out of disk space warnings and it’s because the The system code

⏹️ ▶️ John that erases the volume would tell super duper. Yep. Totally just erase that volume for you It’s totally erased go ahead

⏹️ ▶️ John and fill it and super duper would go to try to fill it and eventually fill the disk because the Disk wasn’t erased like that the underlying

⏹️ ▶️ John disk utility functionality of please erase this volume for me would report success

⏹️ ▶️ John but have actually failed and that type of failure is like forget about cosmetics, right? You know, so there’s like missing

⏹️ ▶️ John features and features that work worse now Basic features like please erase this volume for me.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s that’s kind of untenable So that’s that’s why I think this utility update is bad Not because

⏹️ ▶️ John the GUI is weird and they kind of you know The windows aren’t resizable and it’s hard to see the messages or whatever like it did

⏹️ ▶️ John need a GUI refresh Feel free to do that anytime you want but when the underlying functionality is either removed or doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John work, right? That’s a that’s a real bummer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well yeah, like if this was not a utility that was very customer facing, again, this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like a really technical utility that only geeks really ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco used. If you don’t have the resources or if you’re not willing to devote the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resources to do it right, then just leave it be for another release because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no one is pressuring you to redesign something like that, that already works.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if the best you can do is to replace it with a version that doesn’t work as well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then don’t do that redesign. It’s like with Discovery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco D. Yeah, you redesign this whole thing, you rewrote this whole thing, but the new one works worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And eventually they came around to the right decision, which was, okay, we’ll go back to the old one. With Disk Utility, I feel like they should do the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. Either fix the new one in which I think is probably a big job and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it seems to probably not have a lot of resources devoted to it that I’m guessing that was that was one of those drive by updates

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or just put the old one back because it was fine. It didn’t not work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was fine. It just was a little bit ugly, but who cares? It’s utility.

⏹️ ▶️ John You got to think that like I mean, so there’s the gooey part of it, which like is not most of the application. And then there’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John underlying frameworks and command line utilities and the fact that some of those either disappeared or stop

⏹️ ▶️ John working. Like those must have changed. You know, it’s not just that they put a bad gooey on top of in

⏹️ ▶️ John which case fine, put back the old gooey. Like there must have been underlying changes to

⏹️ ▶️ John the parts of the system that deal with disks, all those frameworks and you know, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the other command line utilities or whatever. So it might not be just as simple as put in the old version of the

⏹️ ▶️ John disk utility application. It’s it’s a like many of the things Apple makes. It’s a series of frameworks

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s a gooey front end and as a command line front end and and you know, the goes always down through

⏹️ ▶️ John the system and try to think about why they got rid of those features. Maybe they’re just trying to reduce the surface area of bugs. I think they got rid

⏹️ ▶️ John of like software raid or something. And I don’t think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, a bad idea to say so few of our customers use this supporting it is really difficult.

⏹️ ▶️ John It should go away. It’s not going to be supported from now on like it’s disappointing to people.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you can do that in a good way and basically I would say give everyone a warning tell them software rate is going

⏹️ ▶️ John away give them alternatives instead of just let you wake up and you’re like oh a new version disc silly wait where does that command go like it

⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t it wasn’t sort of communicated out in any way or there wasn’t like one year where every time you select

⏹️ ▶️ John software rate it would tell you software it will be unsupported in the next version you should stop you know you know what I mean like this

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s good and bad transitions but then having the thing that says that erases disks fail to erase

⏹️ ▶️ John a disk it but report success that’s just this is bad and I don’t know what

⏹️ ▶️ John the fix for that is. I like to imagine, of course, that they’re redoing this because they’re ripping out all this stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John to anticipation of the new file system that’s going to come in 2017. But who

⏹️ ▶️ John knows if that’s even related. So anyway, I’m like they read it activity monitor a couple years ago, too. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John all those applications that sit like in the utilities folder, they should get updates like every five years or so like they should

⏹️ ▶️ John have complete GUI refreshes or whatever. But like Marco said, there’s no rush. If you don’t have time to do it this year,

⏹️ ▶️ John wait till next year. It’s not like people are like, oh, I was gonna upgrade to the new but they didn’t upgrade the activity monitor this year.

⏹️ ▶️ John No one cares. It’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I would rather have just the old one that still works than a new one that doesn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And to the credit for all the people who do the underlying files and stuff like core storage and everything

⏹️ ▶️ John and all the stuff that enables like the new version of file vault. I don’t know how many years that was in gestation, but when it came,

⏹️ ▶️ John like it worked like the new version of file vault like was, you know, the old version was terrifying.

⏹️ ▶️ John And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’s all sorts of bugs. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was crazy. And the new version, sadly, had the same name. But it’s like everyone who tried it’s like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John do it and it just works, right? And they had to do so much plumbing changes to make that happen. Like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John all of course, storage and all that stuff, like, that’s a significant change. But they waited until it was basically ready.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s not like there weren’t bugs and not like they didn’t fix them and everything. But like, it was clearly like production

⏹️ ▶️ John caliber on the when it was released, right? And even though they improved the next year, the next year, the next year after that,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I think it was everyone was shocked by how much of a non issue was is you’re just encrypted. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I checked the checkbox and I enter some passwords now it is encrypted I don’t even notice it doesn’t affect my life

⏹️ ▶️ John uh it’s like magic that’s that’s that’s the way things should be that’s that’s the way the new file system will be in 2017 right

⏹️ ▶️ John guys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John honestly I’m a little scared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I I question whether today’s Apple with with what they’re showing us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by their actions here Can they deliver a really big,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really important, stable, new generation of something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that large? Can Apple deliver a new file system for the Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco today without massive bugs? Well, they’ve been working on it for

⏹️ ▶️ John like 20 years now, right? It’s gotta be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so good now. But where are those people? How many directions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are those resources being pulled right now? We don’t know if there’s any resources. We don’t know if there’s even a project. We know

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing!”

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s true, but you know, whatever this is, you know, if there is a new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco file system here, Apple from five years ago might have been able to ship it and it might have worked,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I really, honestly, I’m worried about Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John today,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about whether they can do this kind of very large new project

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on a platform, on the Mac, on a platform that they don’t really seem to be devoting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco substantial resources to anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they’re totally capable. It’s just a question of making the call and when to pull the trigger. That’s all it comes

⏹️ ▶️ John down to. Is it ready? The go, no, go decision. Is it ready this year or is it not ready this year?

⏹️ ▶️ John You just make the right call on that and it’s like the whole Mac is like

⏹️ ▶️ John a disk utility. No one’s in a big hurry. If it’s not ready, don’t ship it. If it’s ready, ship

⏹️ ▶️ John it. That’s it. Because I totally believe the the capabilities are all there. Even resource starved, even with people

⏹️ ▶️ John getting pulled off to work on the mystical car or whatever they’re doing, all that does is push your dates back. That’s all that should happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, except that I think we see now that today’s Apple would much rather

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hit a ship date than ship something perfect.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you’re taking this way too far when it comes to the file system example, because the file system is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of the bases of the entire Mac pyramid. I mean, if you screw that up,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s a big damn deal. And I think that Apple is smart enough to realize

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that if they’re really going to pull the trigger on a new file system, if this is really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to happen, kind of like what John was saying a minute ago, they’re going to make sure that they are ready

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and they are going to test the snot out of that. It’s not the sort of thing that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can just say, we, why not? You know, and fire from the hip, pew, pew, pew. Let’s give it a shot. Let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see what happens.

⏹️ ▶️ John H of S plus though.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, you guys don’t remember that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Let me tell you a little bit about what that was like.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Please do like so gather

⏹️ ▶️ Marco around the fire kids. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Let grandpa tell you

⏹️ ▶️ John about the file system. So there was a, you know, there was MFS. We’re not going to talk about that. There was HFS, which was

⏹️ ▶️ John fine for a while. And then, uh, you know, Matt was at Mac OS 8.1, I think came out, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that had a new file system. They’re calling the HFS plus. Uh, and if you had, if you were installing it onto,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, an empty volume, you could format as HFS plus and install your operating system and you’d be in this brave

⏹️ ▶️ John new world right they also had a feature this is my recollection people can correct me if I’m wrong I could be mixing up third-party

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff but I’m pretty sure first party had a feature where you could say I’ve got an HFS disk

⏹️ ▶️ John and in those days like discs were tiny and they were always full because they were tiny you could say I want to

⏹️ ▶️ John upgrade to Mac OS 8.1 and I would also like you to change

⏹️ ▶️ John my volume from HFS to HFS plus in place change the format

⏹️ ▶️ John of the file system without deleting my data leave the data there but convert the thing

⏹️ ▶️ John from HFS to HFS plus that sounds like a bad idea that process as you might imagine because

⏹️ ▶️ John these were not days of like log structured file systems where it’s like right only file systems you can do this in a because you can

⏹️ ▶️ John do this is btrfs and lots of other things because of the way they’re laid out in a reasonably

⏹️ ▶️ John safe way but this was like a literal like in place if you unplug your computer in the

⏹️ ▶️ John middle of this or if anything goes wrong kiss your stuff stuff. Goodbye. Right. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it was terrifying. And we didn’t have any place that we couldn’t do online backups, because for me, anyway, and most people, there was no

⏹️ ▶️ John online, right? And didn’t have enough hard disk space to actually make a real like no one had backups, because

⏹️ ▶️ John there was no way to back up like I had one hard drive, or I had multiple hard drives, but they

⏹️ ▶️ John were all filled with stuff like where. And so it’s been uphill both ways. Right. And so what was your choice?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if you wanted hfs plus, and who didn’t write Wow, 255 character filenames. I don’t you know, anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John most of the good stuff, HFS also didn’t even expose. But the bottom line is, you could at least have a block size that made it so you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John a text file with one bite in it, it didn’t take up this then obscene amount of space, because that was

⏹️ ▶️ John the problem with HFS is that as the volumes got bigger, the block size had to grow proportionally. And so no matter

⏹️ ▶️ John how small you made your file, your minimum file size kept going up and up to a size that we wouldn’t care about today.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it was like, we were all upset because it was like 4k for you know, a single character file like or more than

⏹️ ▶️ John 4k. And that was too big anyway the benefits weren’t even all that great and the risks were tremendous

⏹️ ▶️ John and if you wanted to upgrade you had to either erase your disc in which case you needed

⏹️ ▶️ John to have a backup or do this in place backup and it was not

⏹️ ▶️ John it was touch and go there for a year or two and i mean we we probably didn’t hear as much about it because

⏹️ ▶️ John people weren’t online as much back then and talking to each other about the all the problems that are inherent to that but

⏹️ ▶️ John it was really scary these days i was going to say to casey’s thing i like all the faucets and they’re They’re gonna make sure it’s super

⏹️ ▶️ John safe. Remember, HFS Plus runs on the phone too. So you’re pretty much guaranteed that if they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John replacing it with anything, it’s gonna, you know, like that’s bet the company kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. There’s no way in hell they would replace HFS Plus with anything else

⏹️ ▶️ John on the phone if they weren’t damn sure that it fulfilled the requirements of it.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I have some faith that we will not see a file system until that happens.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do I have faith that that means the file system I’d be out in 2017? I don’t know. But like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, just take your time, get it right. You know, we waited this long. Whatever. Ha ha ha.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our second sponsor this week is igloo go to igloo software comm slash ATP

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HFS to HFS+ transition

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So John since you’re already a little bit fired up. Tell me how it is you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Kind of just have disk free blu-rays. How is that even possible?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh We’re gonna topic next. All right before we jump to that though the chat room wants to Wants us

⏹️ ▶️ John to say this and it’s another story for the young insula. You guys have probably heard it and I’ll do it quickly Back

⏹️ ▶️ John to the fire. Yeah, the other fun thing about the HFS HFS plus conversion.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if this is still true, probably not, but I don’t remember. There was some recent articles like it came up again on the modern

⏹️ ▶️ John internet like a couple years ago. So maybe you could find those blog posts. But anyway, when it converted your disk,

⏹️ ▶️ John it would do this clever thing where it would, if this HFS plus disk was read by a system

⏹️ ▶️ John that predates HFS plus, rather than saying this disk is unreadable, would you like to initialize? as

⏹️ ▶️ John in like I have no idea what the hell this disc is, the disc would appear to older discs

⏹️ ▶️ John as an HFS disc that had like this little miniature HFS disc volume entry in it in the place

⏹️ ▶️ John where old in a place where a pre-hfs plus system would look for it and the only

⏹️ ▶️ John thing on that disc was a little tiny readme file that explained what the hell hfs plus is and where all your crap went and it was

⏹️ ▶️ John just like the ideal like cute little mac thing where you where instead of just

⏹️ ▶️ John you know telling telling you your thing is initialized and you know, telling you your disk is unreadable and scaring

⏹️ ▶️ John people and tricking them into like accidentally hitting the erase button because they don’t know what else to do. Your disk would mount

⏹️ ▶️ John and you’d be like, where the hell’s all my stuff? And you would see this one little text file, this one little readme file sitting there.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know, what else can you do there? But like, I guess I’ll read this file. Maybe it’ll tell me, I forget

⏹️ ▶️ John what it was called. It was like, it was something about like, where did my files go? Or please read

⏹️ ▶️ John me or whatever. Like it was trying to help you say, look here and we’ll tell you what the heck’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John on. And it would say, Oh, this is because of inform HFS plus vision, new formatting, you’re booted into an old system and blah, blah, blah, blah.

⏹️ ▶️ John That was like, that’s, that’s the, that’s the good stuff. That’s the good Apple Mac way

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of whimsical, kind of fun, technically super clever. Because they control everything

⏹️ ▶️ John from top to bottom, they can do this, they can say, we’re going to define a new volume format, but we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to leave a spot for this little funny little wrapper. And I don’t remember when the wrapper went away, or if it’s still

⏹️ ▶️ John there, it’s probably gone now. But I always like that, and that is, I think, the example

⏹️ ▶️ John of Apple at its best.

John discovers Blu-ray ripping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So tell me, John, how do you handle Blu-rays these days?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, this topic. This topic. I try to handle them not at all. So we’ve talked

⏹️ ▶️ John about Blu-rays a little bit, as in, like, where did you get this movie? Did

⏹️ ▶️ John you get it on iTunes? How do you watch movies? All our different Plex things,

⏹️ ▶️ John streaming things from Netflix, from HBO Go, all sorts of ways that we watch

⏹️ ▶️ John television and movies these days. I would always chime in at a certain point to say oh I buy the movies that I care about on blu-ray

⏹️ ▶️ John because Despite the fact that blu-ray is awful. Everybody knows blu-ray is awful

⏹️ ▶️ John For all the reasons that anyone who’s ever used a blu-ray knows take a million years to load

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re waiting for the menus to load. They show you previews that sometimes you can’t skip You just

⏹️ ▶️ John want to watch the movie. There’s a spinning disk in there That probably makes noise or more noise than a digital file. Anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John You have to get the disk out of its case you got to stick it into a little thing, you know like it’s all… Do they still run Java? Yeah, very

⏹️ ▶️ John often. They will run Java or try to download something or you have compatibility problems. My favorite one is like

⏹️ ▶️ John I have lots of fancy equipment that can in theory play Blu-rays and every once in a while one of them will be like get

⏹️ ▶️ John me on a menu screen where it won’t let me select the play button or where it will freeze on a menu

⏹️ ▶️ John screen and it’s just like and this is after you’ve sat through previews or tried to skip them or figure out which button

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to hit to get past the previews. Can I advance track? Can I hit top menu? Can I pop up menu? You know like

⏹️ ▶️ John and get through that and then the menu freezes and you can’t play I love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blu-rays like it’s like you know it’s like this committee looked at the DVD format and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re like you know what this needs more prohibited user operations software updates

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Java

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah it’s software like running running software it’s yeah so it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John an incredibly misguided customer hostile format and and really like you

⏹️ ▶️ John just want to watch the movie right you that’s all that’s all you want. You want the movie to start playing now, right? So

⏹️ ▶️ John why do I keep buying blu-rays? I keep buying them because it continues to be the highest quality

⏹️ ▶️ John version of the of a movie that you can get. And I not all movies I care about. I get a lot of movies, especially like kids movies

⏹️ ▶️ John on iTunes or whatever, like, you know, they’re fine. But for the movies I really care about, I want the highest

⏹️ ▶️ John quality version that I can buy or that a regular consumer can buy and blu-rays that blu-ray discs are

⏹️ ▶️ John huge. You can get a blu-ray movie that’s like tens of gigabytes yes they’re still compressed

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like it’s uncompressed it but they’re compressed at a higher bitrate with better algorithms and like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re you know they have some of them have uncompressed audio on them or you know multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John higher resolution audio tracks and all sorts of good things about you know so it is it is the best copy of a movie you can get

⏹️ ▶️ John so all the movies I care about I get on blu-ray all the movies that I

⏹️ ▶️ John really really you know appreciate then and I have a setup that can play them correctly on my

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy TV and everything’s good except of course I hate blu-ray so what I’m always looking for not like

⏹️ ▶️ John really actively but just like be on the lookout for this is the point where I can

⏹️ ▶️ John take my blu-rays and get the bits off of them and put them

⏹️ ▶️ John on to a hard drive somewhere and then watch them from that hard drive now all the menus are

⏹️ ▶️ John gone like I’m just taking the movie all the stupid menus all the FBI warnings all the Java applets

⏹️ ▶️ John all the previews is all that is gone Are you confessing to a felony? I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just want the bits off of the disc. And then I want to be able to play

⏹️ ▶️ John those bits and have it be exactly the same as it would be if I put the Blu-ray

⏹️ ▶️ John into the drive, except without all the bad parts. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John have all these boxes connected to my television and I’ve got my big Synology down there that’s got a lot of room

⏹️ ▶️ John on it. And like I said, I’ve not been actively seeking this out, but I figured at a certain point, from my

⏹️ ▶️ John normal churn of the various boxes that are attached to my TV, I will probably eventually get to the point where

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the thing that can happen. And I thought I might have been at that point because as we’ve discussed in past shows,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve been running Plex on my new Apple TV, and I finally got my Plex library kind of in

⏹️ ▶️ John order. And lots of things have Plex clients,

⏹️ ▶️ John my Tivo has a Plex client, my television can read things directly off the Synology off the server that it runs, my Apple TV

⏹️ ▶️ John box can do it like I I have so many different choices. I can run the server off my computer, which

⏹️ ▶️ John by the way, I don’t know if it occurs to people to do this and maybe it’s not recommended, but if you have a NAS,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can mount your NAS on your Mac and then run Plex on your Mac with

⏹️ ▶️ John the NAS mounted where all your video is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s exactly what I do.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, but you can also have, like Synology has a Plex server on it. So I have a Plex server

⏹️ ▶️ John on my NAS and I have another Plex server on my Mac, both of which are pointing to the

⏹️ ▶️ John exact same video files. And they more or less stay in sync with each other. Like they don’t fight each other and everything. And so

⏹️ ▶️ John why would you do that? Why would you choose between them? Well, I don’t like to have the Mac on all the time, but if there’s something that needs

⏹️ ▶️ John some kind of heavy transcoding to be able to play at all, the Mac can handle it and the Synology might not be able to.

⏹️ ▶️ John So, and really just, I don’t know, I’m just playing with things. But anyway, so that’s the situation I’m in.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I figured, I think I’m at the point where I can do this now. So I bought myself like a $50, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, Blu-ray drive. that’s how cheap they are these days for your computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John just like a little thing you put in a little Blu-ray that hooks up to USB. Yep, bag of hurt.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yep,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then get, you know, Make MKV or some other program that you’re going to ask to, you know, people might

⏹️ ▶️ John say, I’m gonna rip my Blu-rays, but I’m not re-encoding them. I am not running them through compression

⏹️ ▶️ John algorithms. I just want the bits off the disk, exactly as they are, not changed in any possible way,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t that exactly what Make MKV does?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think people have workflows where it goes through this whole big process and actually rewrites it.

⏹️ ▶️ John We can talk to Don Melton about what his workflow is. He’s always re-encoding all

⏹️ ▶️ John of his movies. And I’m like, so do you have the original uncompressed thing somewhere? That’s your input? Or do

⏹️ ▶️ John you feed discs in forever? I don’t know what it does. But anyway, yeah. MakeMPKB will let you select which tracks you want off the thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John and it will just pull them off exactly as they are, bit for bit, which is exactly what I want. Not for all my movies.

⏹️ ▶️ John Again, I have most of the things that I don’t care that much about, I’ll buy on iTunes or I’ll watch on Netflix, so I don’t have to store

⏹️ ▶️ John them at all. for the you know the handful of like my very very favorite movies right

⏹️ ▶️ John and I did this seemed to go okay like I just did it for like two or three experimental movies off of

⏹️ ▶️ John blu-ray and that you know again they’re huge like 20 or 30 gigabytes like and you know you’re gonna run into space real

⏹️ ▶️ John fast if you take your you know movie library of 300 movies and just do the math you will see that you know we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John take a lot of room but I was just doing a couple of them and I thought it was home free because I’m like

⏹️ ▶️ John great got the bits off the disc I’ve got a million places I can put these bits that I can play them I can put

⏹️ ▶️ John them on Plex and have it serve my Mac I put them on Plex and have them serve my Synology I can put them on my Synology

⏹️ ▶️ John have it serve from DLNA server on my television I can play them from my PlayStation 3 I could

⏹️ ▶️ John play them from my PlayStation 4 if it was hooked up to my television but it’s not I could play them from my Apple TV I can play

⏹️ ▶️ John them from the television itself like you know I probably can play them from the the Wii U if I

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to who knows what they have out you know I have so many options so I’m like surely one of these will will work to do

⏹️ ▶️ John what I want. And they almost do! They’re really close. They’re really close. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I had forgotten about two things. One, I had, I mean, I didn’t really forget about this, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I figured something I had would have it work. I’d forgotten about 24 frames per second cadence.

⏹️ ▶️ John Movies, most movies that we know of, that people like these days, are shot at 24

⏹️ ▶️ John frames per second for a variety of historical reasons. And most televisions, for

⏹️ ▶️ John a different variety of historical reasons. Most flat screen televisions, uh, show

⏹️ ▶️ John a new frame, uh, at some multiple that 24 does not go into evenly. So

⏹️ ▶️ John they may be, yeah, well, they’re not 60 Hertz these days, but like, uh, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey aren’t there 121? Yeah, there’s one 20

⏹️ ▶️ John and two 40 and stuff like that. Right? So if you have one of those televisions and you can get 24 into it evenly, you’re fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you’re like me and you have a plasma television that doesn’t have it doesn’t display at you know

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have a device that doesn’t output an even multiple 24 that’s usually what it’s not so much the television set so the best

⏹️ ▶️ John example is the Apple TV which I believe outputs at 60 Hertz which is what all our max output at like 60 you know 60 refreshes

⏹️ ▶️ John of your screen each second right and if you’ve got 24 frames of video and you’re trying to put it out

⏹️ ▶️ John over a connection that’s going to show 60 frames every second the math doesn’t work out for you there

⏹️ ▶️ John so you have to because you can’t show like say you have frame number one frame number two frame number three

⏹️ ▶️ John you what they end up doing is they show frame number one three times they show frame number two two times there’s your frame number

⏹️ ▶️ John three three times and it’s like three two three two three two three two and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not what you want because you’re showing you’re showing the frames an uneven number of times it’s supposed to be one frame

⏹️ ▶️ John for 1 24th of a second then the next frame for 1 24th of a second every frame should be shown for exactly the same amount of

⏹️ ▶️ John time but if you’re if you’re sending 60 updates a second you just can’t do that with 24 frames per second right and it doesn’t matter

⏹️ ▶️ John what your television does if the output device is like now now very clever modern televisions have a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John where they will do they will do three to two cadence detection well they will figure out seems like this device is sending me

⏹️ ▶️ John like one frame three times that never changes and the next frame it sends me two times and that one is the same for the two

⏹️ ▶️ John things and then it sends me the next frame three times the next one to oh I see what’s going on there and

⏹️ ▶️ John it fixes it for you it re-expands the frame rate and it displays them because it has a refresh rate that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a multiple of 24 and you’re fine and then when you actually look at the television it shows you each frame for exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John amount of time every frame comes on for 1 24th of a second that’s awesome I didn’t know tvs were that smart

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah mine doesn’t do that because it’s a not that smart and be like that process as you can

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine is kind of like detecting that and handling it correctly is potentially problematic so what you

⏹️ ▶️ John really want is for the device that you’re playing the movie on to say look

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m gonna send it at not at 24 frames a second but at 24 frame per second cadence so i’m going to send you

⏹️ ▶️ John some multiple of 24 right whether I can’t do the math in my head or is 96 the multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John or 120 or 240 or whatever yes anyway I’m going to send you some multiple 24 and and

⏹️ ▶️ John then you television realize that I’m sending to you at this frame rate and display television decide to update

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly this thing so if I send you 96 hertz television please display 96 hertz

⏹️ ▶️ John and everyone’s fine and so like frame for number one is shown you know three or four times the and frame rate all the frames

⏹️ ▶️ John you know that’s when they say 24 frames like they don’t mean that your television is updating 24 times a second that

⏹️ ▶️ John would look terrible for most television technologies all they mean is that the cadence is correct that

⏹️ ▶️ John the first frame is shown for 1 24th of a second exactly the second frame is shown for 1 24th of a second exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what you want to happen and when i put a blu-ray player in my playstation 3 it does exactly that

⏹️ ▶️ John it sends it out 24 frames per second cadence my television realizes that the playstation wants to talk

⏹️ ▶️ John to it that way they negotiated over hdmi my television changes to be at exactly a 24

⏹️ ▶️ John frame per second cadence that is the only way you see a blu-ray the way it’s supposed to look without what they call judder judder

⏹️ ▶️ John is what what they call it when you see the three two three two three two type thing um especially when they have

⏹️ ▶️ John like a pan or some quick motion where it seems herky jerky because it because it is jerky because it’s not smooth motion they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not showing each frame for 1 24th of a second um i thought surely i have some

⏹️ ▶️ John box that can take this 24 her every second Blu-ray and show it like that. But it turns out

⏹️ ▶️ John for the most part, I don’t. The Apple TV won’t do it because the Apple TV has a fixed refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rate and for whatever reason, my television does not detect that it’s getting three to

⏹️ ▶️ John and it can’t reverse the process. I don’t think there’s anything I can do on my Apple TV to convince it to

⏹️ ▶️ John output at 96 or 48 or something like that. Uh, the, the last

⏹️ ▶️ John forum entry I saw from some Apple person answering, they basically said applications in the Apple TV have no

⏹️ ▶️ John power to affect that what’s going out over the HDMI cable like the refresh rate they can’t change that that’s just it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fixed and it’s part of the OS it’s possible future OS update could change to either

⏹️ ▶️ John let applications control that or let let users control it with some setting or something but right now

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t and how do I know that my television isn’t correctly detecting

⏹️ ▶️ John the 3 2 cadence and fixing it for me you can kind of tell by looking at like scenes and movies and pans

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever but there’s a much easier way to tell there’s a lot of little test movies that you can download that show for example

⏹️ ▶️ John a white box marching across the screen and for you know for the first frame the white boxes on the

⏹️ ▶️ John left and for the next frame the white boxes move one unit over and for the next frame so you see 24 boxes which light up one

⏹️ ▶️ John after the other what each frame one of the boxes is lit up all you do is take your fancy uh

⏹️ ▶️ John marker armament expensive camera and figure out how to change the shutter speed to exactly one second

⏹️ ▶️ John you play that movie on your television you take a picture of your television with a shutter with an exposure time

⏹️ ▶️ John of one second then you look at the picture. If your television is doing the right thing, you

⏹️ ▶️ John should see 24 grayish boxes that look exactly the same brightness because every single one of those squares was on screen

⏹️ ▶️ John for exactly 1 24th of a second and 1 24th of a second is the same exposure on your camera sensor.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s what you should see. If it’s doing it wrong, what you will see is bright square dim square bright square

⏹️ ▶️ John dim square bright square dim square. The bright ones were the ones that were shown for three frames and the dim ones are the ones that were shown from two

⏹️ ▶️ John frames. So just to be double extra sure, I experimentally determined that yes, no combination of Apple TV

⏹️ ▶️ John plus Flex will produce anything except for the one I had had like a clock dial

⏹️ ▶️ John to which also made the hands go around a clock in 24 not a clock but like a thing in 24 increments and you would see

⏹️ ▶️ John bright hand dark hand bright hand dark hand. It was such a pain in the ass to figure out how to get my camera to do exposure

⏹️ ▶️ John for one second because I don’t know any of like the terminology in camera land. I was like s shutter

⏹️ ▶️ John shutter

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco speed exposure

⏹️ ▶️ John like once and the the correct setting I don’t remember what the hell was called but the correct setting said

⏹️ ▶️ John one and like the inch sign like a quote one inch two inch I’m like that’s seconds that’s not I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess minutes is a single prime and seconds

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally it’s showing you a it’s showing you a fraction of a second in most other cases so it’ll say like it might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it might just say like 500 which is one five hundredth of a second. So they do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that little quote thing. Yeah, I think it is like degree minute seconds kind of reference there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think it’s more just to be very different from what it was showing before. So you don’t have like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five and think it’s one fifth of a second.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, very confusing people who don’t know photography. But anyway, Apple TV, no go, which is a shame because

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what I wanted to do. Apple TV has no fan. It’s got Plex on it. I could put my blue… That’s where I

⏹️ ▶️ John put my blue ribs, right into Plex. Plex will play them just fine I can you know it’ll play the movie but won’t get the right cadence

⏹️ ▶️ John did your family see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you doing this test

⏹️ ▶️ John no yeah that was they weren’t around at this time

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they were asleep

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s a silent test and so my

⏹️ ▶️ John I asked about it on Twitter I got some suggestions like oh you should try on your Tivo I’d forgotten to my Tivo even had a Plex client but

⏹️ ▶️ John guess what Tivo has a Plex client it is it HD does it is it slow it’s slow

⏹️ ▶️ John but it will output 24 Hertz and it will it will negotiate with my television and convince

⏹️ ▶️ John my television to display I mean it says 24 Hertz but again it’s not really 24 it will app for at 24 frame

⏹️ ▶️ John per second cadence but everything else about it is awful I think it’s only

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey 720p so I think

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like reconverting the video at

⏹️ ▶️ John the very least the menus appear to be 720p and it down mixes all the audio to some it’s like stereo

⏹️ ▶️ John like it doesn’t have multi-channel at all. I think the closest I got was

⏹️ ▶️ John I had managed to… I forget which one it was that did this. I think I had managed through

⏹️ ▶️ John like the PlayStation 3, which is my good Blu-ray player that does the correct cadence. I think I got everything

⏹️ ▶️ John except for it wouldn’t do uncompressed linear PCM audio, which the Kill Bill

⏹️ ▶️ John Blu-ray has on it. It would only do the AC3 one. And I wasn’t entirely

⏹️ ▶️ John convinced that it had gotten the cadence right either. I don’t remember if I redid the test or not. But bottom line is, none of the devices I had

⏹️ ▶️ John fulfilled this requirement and I don’t really blame them because this is not a mainstream use nobody cares

⏹️ ▶️ John about this they just want like if you just if I just rip these movies and just play them like regular people can’t tell that the cadence

⏹️ ▶️ John is wrong they don’t care that they’ve been recompressed nobody can hear the difference between compressed

⏹️ ▶️ John and uncompressed audio I certainly can’t on my crappy speakers but it’s the principle of the matter as you can imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John and and I really do think that I would notice the cadence in the same way you can notice like the soap opera effect or whatever I really

⏹️ ▶️ John do want the frame rate to be right and the whole point of this experiment is if I can’t get it all the way then

⏹️ ▶️ John like I’ll just go back to watching because I do have compressed rips of all these things I it’s not like I can’t see the movie and I can put in the blu-ray

⏹️ ▶️ John when I really care about it right but but I’m so close so close so many devices

⏹️ ▶️ John are capable of doing everything they just haven’t got the last little bit which is please

⏹️ ▶️ John pass through the audio in whatever format it is directly to my receiver which can understand

⏹️ ▶️ John all these formats and can play all of them. Please don’t try to downmix, please don’t refuse to use linear

⏹️ ▶️ John PCM and only send AC3, please don’t do anything like that, please don’t change the video, please don’t try to change

⏹️ ▶️ John the 720p, and get the get the display cadence right between the

⏹️ ▶️ John television, which totally supports this if you talk to it in a reasonable way. Talk to the television

⏹️ ▶️ John the right way. And I got a lot of suggestions for alternatives that will do this. Obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John if I was to get a home theater PC I can do it, like lots of Mac and PC solutions do this obviously I’m not going

⏹️ ▶️ John to do that even a fanless one I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey gonna build

⏹️ ▶️ John myself a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey home

⏹️ ▶️ John theater PC I’m not signing up for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You won’t even build yourself a gaming PC even though you really probably should you won’t even do that so there’s no way you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco building an HTPC. Firewatch is pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John smooth on the 5k iMac let me tell you it’s pretty nice I’m not that’s a very demanding game but

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah I’m not signing up to that game I don’t I know I could do that I definitely could a lot of people suggested Raspberry

⏹️ ▶️ John Pi which actually I actually kind of consider because I’m like you know what that is that seems simpler than Home Theater

⏹️ ▶️ John PC. Can they do that? Yeah like are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they powerful enough to do that kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John role? Yeah people who are people who are using it for that say it might be borderline but it is I was like is there something

⏹️ ▶️ John I can buy like can I buy a package thing that is really a Raspberry Pi all packaged together

⏹️ ▶️ John already like I don’t want to do any of the crap is there like a Raspberry Pi guts in a box that I can buy and mostly

⏹️ ▶️ John like no you kind of got to do a little bit of stuff yourself so it’s like no not quite for me. There’s the Android

⏹️ ▶️ John Shield you know the Nvidia shield TV thing which runs Android TV that

⏹️ ▶️ John very recently and fire TV both now I believe have options to mess with the refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rate so you can force it to output in in the right format but there were some questions about whether they supported

⏹️ ▶️ John the the the pastor of the audio and everything and the Nvidia shield is like 200 bucks I mean it’s a gaming

⏹️ ▶️ John thing it’s not just for a television box and it does have a fan although people assure me that the fan basically never turns on or

⏹️ ▶️ John is inaudible or whatever you would find when it turns on it is it’s big

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like I mean it’s for it’s it’s practically a little miniature game console so that I think that’s the closest thing I came to considering

⏹️ ▶️ John buying but I really I don’t want to have I think I’m almost out of inputs and I don’t want to blow one

⏹️ ▶️ John more input on something like this and have one more remote and one more controller and thing or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John so right now I’m holding pattern on this I haven’t ripped anymore my blu-rays it does take a little while

⏹️ ▶️ John to do that I think I’m pinning my hopes basically on the Apple TV because I feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re really close to getting it right and people have complained to Apple about not supporting this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think we even talked about like the reason they might not do it is well if you change to

⏹️ ▶️ John a 24 frame per second cadence the GUI looks gross like on the actual device when you’re going through the menus and

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to change it when you hit play because it’s not a good experience to have that like flicker HDMI refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rate change thingy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can I can see their solution being that they would just just offer 120 and then, you know, and then, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they would say, I’m sending you 120 for everything. And then the whole UI would run on 120. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what I mean. But 24 frames per second cadence doesn’t mean 24. It means, it just means like that

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re at that cadence. But I, I don’t know if the portions of the GUI

⏹️ ▶️ John system, like the, like when you’re running the Mac part of it, I don’t know if the Mac operating system

⏹️ ▶️ John can operate at that kind of refresher. Like, does it, I understand they could do it for video output, like negotiating

⏹️ ▶️ John over HDMI and everything, but for the GUI GUI part of it? Does the Mac do anything

⏹️ ▶️ John at like 240 frames per second or 120? Well, ATP Tipster says it can. I guess we’ve never encountered it because obviously every

⏹️ ▶️ John LCD is 60 hertz, right? So it doesn’t come up. It’s not like the old CRT days where, you know, fancy CRT

⏹️ ▶️ John you could refresh at 120 hertz and everything would be so smooth and awesome and a little bit dim because it’s kind of flickery.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the iPad Pro has dynamic refresh rate. And I think it samples like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco digitizer at 60 and I mean, at I think 120 and the pencil I think at 240. So it can sample things faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it’s only

⏹️ ▶️ John displaying 60, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the UI is, even on the iPad Pro, even in those modes, I think the UI is still fixed to 60.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I’m sure they could, you know, if they wanted to, I’m sure they could push for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for something like the Apple TV, where like, you know, the Apple TV is kind of special because it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only device that runs iOS that doesn’t need to be concerned at all about power efficiency.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So if something just needs a higher wattage GPU or more power

⏹️ ▶️ Marco draw, on the Apple TV you can do that within obviously the thermal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bounds of the enclosure. You have much more headroom there than you do in something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an iPad or an iPhone where power efficiency is more important to conserve.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m a little bit afraid they might not consider an issue because from the other people who are like me trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John do similar things with Apple TV boxes, a lot of them ran the experiment with the camera exposure and they saw

⏹️ ▶️ John even evenly colored boxes across their screen which means they’re these

⏹️ ▶️ John are all people LCDs television means their modern LCDs are figuring out the 3 2 coming off

⏹️ ▶️ John of the the I assume 60 Hertz coming out of the Apple TV and they’re fixing it right and so if that’s the case

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe that’s Apple solution is like oh it’s oh it’s always gonna be 60 Hertz house and you have to deal with it but if there’s any hope

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gonna be the thing connected to a TV like its whole point is to show television and movies and movies are all 24

⏹️ ▶️ John frames per second except like the Hobbit and stuff and all the high frame rate stuff, right? Which

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John already hated, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I didn’t hate

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Like, it looked a little bit weird, but I would be pretty much on board

⏹️ ▶️ John if everyone wanted to make their movies like that. They just gotta figure out how to make movies like that in the right

⏹️ ▶️ John way. It’s like HD. Like, all of a sudden all your sets look really crappy in HD because the sets were made for

⏹️ ▶️ John standard def and now you realize it’s like a cardboard box and a fake television in the background. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I did not hate high frame rate, but I think those examples of high frame rate did not

⏹️ ▶️ John do the format any justice. I feel like it could be done well, but but anyway, that’s like for the,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the movies I love and so many of the movies that I have, they’re all 24. So I want some way to display

⏹️ ▶️ John them in that way. And so I guess like the file system, I will just be patiently waiting. At a certain

⏹️ ▶️ John point, I will probably just give up and buy like, you know, the Nvidia shield or something, some box that can do

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I don’t think it’ll ever do a home theater PC because if I want to do that, I would have that long ago, like I could have done

⏹️ ▶️ John that ages ago. I just I just I was so close just so close to getting what I want.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just you just need a little bit more and the for those clients out there that are like, like the the Tivo

⏹️ ▶️ John and the you’re down mixing everything to steroids like why even bother like I know most people don’t have surround fine, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can have that be the default like, because it takes more work to down mix like just pass it through like

⏹️ ▶️ John have an option to say hey, if they’re sending me multi channel audio, do you want me to just pass that through because you have a receiver

⏹️ ▶️ John check this checkbox it’s easier to pass it through than it is to downmix it. So there’s some silliness going

⏹️ ▶️ John on in the TV box market as always. But anyway, I was impressed.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve still remained impressed with Plex and Apple TV combination for television shows and other things that don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have this frame rate issue. But I still can’t quite get rid of my Blu-rays and my

⏹️ ▶️ John relatively noisy Blu-ray player quite yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, if there’s anything I’ve learned from listening to you talk about this, John, Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about headphones constantly. It’s that I am so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey frigging glad that I don’t have the crazy discerning eyes slash

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ears that you guys have, because I have never noticed this,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this jankiness that you’re discussing. I love my $20

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crappy Bluetooth headphones that I use every day that I’ve talked about ad nauseum on this show. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, not to say I don’t appreciate a good set of headphones and not to say I’m I’m sure that I wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey appreciate a perfectly 24 frame per second movie as shown

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a TV that’s very, very nice like yours is, but this stuff just doesn’t bother me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And oh man, I’m so thankful for that. Do you

⏹️ ▶️ John notice the soap opera effect?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t even know what that is. I’ve heard of it, but I don’t even know what it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Just don’t even learn about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I don’t want to know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I don’t want to know. I don’t want to know. I

⏹️ ▶️ John think everybody can notice that once they become aware of it, because I feel like that is-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the problem. Like everyone can see it, but before you have seen it, your mind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t ruined. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or you don’t know what it is that you’re seeing. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there could be something off

⏹️ ▶️ John about it, but it looks a little bit… Even for me, the first time I saw it, when I got my first television

⏹️ ▶️ John that supported that feature, I immediately was like, what the hell? And then I remember like half a second,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, it must come like that out of the box. But if I hadn’t read about it beforehand, I would have thought, this

⏹️ ▶️ John new TV is weird. And people just get used to it. Casey, I feel like making you go over to your television right

⏹️ ▶️ John now and adjusting it to make sure that it is showing showing the full 1080 picture

⏹️ ▶️ John instead of chopping all the sides. Oh, it’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it’s not. And it drives me berserk because occasionally on the Apple TV, I can tell where it’s getting clipped. And I keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey telling the TV, no, show me everything pixel for pixel. And then it keeps forgetting every time I turn

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it off

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that I’ve told it that. Keeps

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco forgetting?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, Casey, this is this is the you finally found a way to get John to drive to to your house.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s true. Yeah. So you tell me John how to get my I think it’s a Toshiba TV TV

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to remember that I want full frame and not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John chop off the edge. I

⏹️ ▶️ John understand why it wouldn’t well the only trick I know that if it’s not remembering can you name your input PC

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey can

⏹️ ▶️ John you rename your inputs? It is yes and it is named PC. I don’t know maybe you have like a bum

⏹️ ▶️ John battery somewhere and there’s not keeping the like how does it forget like what’s the point of that feature who’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to change it every time they turn on the television

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, no, no. So to be clear, what I’m doing is I’m hitting, I think it’s pic size for picture size on the remote.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it will let me adjust, it will let me adjust, you know, through several different options. I don’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what they are right now. But one of them is like full res or dot for dot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget exactly what it’s called, but it will let me adjust to that. However, every time I turn the TV

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off and then turn the TV back on, it goes back to whatever the default mode

⏹️ ▶️ John is. You got a Google for like your television model manual PDF or like there’s always some like it

⏹️ ▶️ John You know service meant hidden service menu where you type in some numeric code and some crazy menu comes up on the screen there

⏹️ ▶️ John may be a way to do it and if you can’t you just get rid of that television because honestly that’s that’s obscene where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or or You just live with it

⏹️ ▶️ John or just resign yourself to a missing a whole bunch of the picture and be having the rest of the

⏹️ ▶️ John Picture stretched out. Yep. It’s gross and to the soap opera effect if you have

⏹️ ▶️ John any set

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I don’t want to know. I don’t want to know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to tell you now.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey La la

⏹️ ▶️ John la la la la la la. Just listen. If you don’t notice, you don’t notice.

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Back to DVD+R

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thank you very much to Casper for sponsoring our show once again. Also

⏹️ ▶️ John check out their pillows. Very nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey, I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know

⏹️ ▶️ John if there are any settings. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love how like so a long time ago and I think like 2003 ish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had one of the very first DVD burners and I stupidly picked the wrong side of a format war and I got DVD

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plus are instead of DVD dash are but before they were universal doesn’t matter anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the time the the DVDs only held single layer so they were only 4.7 gigs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and most movie DVDs at the time were dual layer 8.5 gigs so I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had to at that time in order to pirate movies which is the only reason you would need a DVD burner in 2002 or 2003 I wanted or excuse me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to back up my movies

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had to transcode it and and had to basically break apart the DVD structure, transcode the video to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fit on the single layer discs from the commercial double layer discs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s the time in my life when I really discovered just how incredibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco messy and complicated video is. Things like all these different frame rates,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether it was interlaced, interlacing is the worst thing in the universe, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you have all these, if the aspect ratio was wrong and then you have audio sync issues

⏹️ ▶️ Marco possibly and and the tools you know there was no handbrake at the time the tools were like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know six different tools you know this one would de-mux the file this one would re-mux the file this one would transcode and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know you had to it was a huge mess and I remember thinking in a few

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in just a few years video will be simple that was 13 years ago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it sounds like video still isn’t simple it’s just the complications now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are a little bit different like that you still have some of the same ones we solved some of the old ones we introduced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new ones as time went on and then added Java and software updates I mean just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this whole world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems like it is so unnecessarily complex but yet just never get simplified

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re on the right track with like digital downloads and everything it’s just that like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like the last mile the last mile equivalent is alright So we all agree on a set of formats

⏹️ ▶️ John that are reasonable. Interlacing is gone. Audio sync shouldn’t be an issue anymore because you get the package of files.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have ways to distribute reasonably sized digital files that look really good, that have multi-channel audio.

⏹️ ▶️ John Even the pirating formats are all pretty nice now. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey just

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of uniformity. I mean, the magic of MKV and all that other stuff, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s the last miles. Like, okay, how do I take these digital bits, which are nice and uniform, and I can play almost

⏹️ ▶️ John anywhere, how do I show them on my television and listen to them through my television speakers

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever speakers I have hooked up to my television in a way that doesn’t subtly change

⏹️ ▶️ John or some would say ruin the the content because the video file has a certain frame rate

⏹️ ▶️ John and if you don’t show it at some multiple of that frame rate it’s going to look weird and

⏹️ ▶️ John if you have multi-channel audio and you down mix it all to stereo it’s going to be weird

⏹️ ▶️ John or if you just drop the back channels and there’s a piece of dialogue or a sound effect that only happens in the back channels

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s going to be weird and that’s before you even get into how many times is compressed and how many times is it recompressed

⏹️ ▶️ John recompressing a double sided double layer dvd down a single layer that’s gross because mpeg-2 looks gross to begin

⏹️ ▶️ John with and now you’re just making it worse so i would never bother with that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it was 2003 no yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not it’s not good though you got to play the pure mpeg-2

⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s as good as it’s going to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but back then like you were lucky if you had like a 10 gig hard drive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh no i guess I guess by that time we had like 60, but still like that was still not a lot when you have 8 gig

⏹️ ▶️ Marco DVDs and you have a 60 gig hard drive.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And the final part of the final mile was what I was just telling Casey, which is televisions,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, for a variety of good and bad reasons, try to do stuff with the picture to make it look

⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote better or more correct or whatever. And a lot of the things they do to the

⏹️ ▶️ John picture make it look crazy. Like for example, the high refresh rate LCDs that

⏹️ ▶️ John refresh at 240 hertz decide you know what we’re rushing at 240 hertz if

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m showing at 24 frame per second movie what the hell is the point of me showing frame number one ten times

⏹️ ▶️ John can we do something clever and basically say instead of showing frame number one ten times and then frame number two ten times

⏹️ ▶️ John we know what frame number one frame number two are gonna be like can we show 20 pictures where frame number

⏹️ ▶️ John one slowly morphs into frame number two All

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right, thanks for our three sponsors this week. Don’t try to…

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just going to continue into the after show, so it’s your choice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Igloo, and Casper, and we will see you next week!

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental. John didn’t do any research, Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Casey wouldn’t let him, Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ John C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and T. Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ John S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, check podcast so long

Post-show: So anyway…

⏹️ ▶️ John So anyway, that effect where it takes 10 of

⏹️ ▶️ John frame number one and 10 of frame number two and tries to make 20 frames, each of which starts at one and ends at two, but each

⏹️ ▶️ John one has a little thing in between, that’s called by a million different names by a million different manufacturers

⏹️ ▶️ John motion smoothing, picture

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey interpolation, magic shadow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I totally blanked. Try that one more time because I don’t think I understand at all. All right, so you’ve got…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I couldn’t resist I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casey just hung up the call.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Did I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco hang up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Sorry. Yes. I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh I initiated tonight didn’t I?

⏹️ ▶️ John I couldn’t tell what hung up on where because I’m like well if he had hung up he would have gone

⏹️ ▶️ John away but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey then why has Marco gone too?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah sorry I forgot that I kicked off the call today that’s that’s even more and less comedic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that I intended.

⏹️ ▶️ John This new tick that you have of hanging up on podcasts, this needs a stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey We need to have a sit down,

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey. We need to have a talk to you about hanging up on podcasts. You can do it once. It might be funny,

⏹️ ▶️ John but if it becomes a thing, now we have an issue. And now we have to talk about how you’re hanging up on podcasts.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Now we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need an intervention.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It

⏹️ ▶️ John is affecting other people, mostly me. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John goodness. Anyway, I hope you do understand the motion simulating thing. And here’s the thing about it. If you If you don’t notice

⏹️ ▶️ John it, turn it off on your television, never think about it again. Of course, Casey’s television will probably just turn it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey back on every time you turn the television back on.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if you don’t notice when it’s on, you also won’t notice when it’s off and

⏹️ ▶️ John it will make everyone feel better. So just turn it off. I think if you watch your television with it off for a

⏹️ ▶️ John long time and then you turn it back on, you will notice. You’ll be like, what the hell is this? It will look

⏹️ ▶️ John different and weird to you. Even things like sports will look different and weird. If your television has any features

⏹️ ▶️ John about like super brightness enhancer, magical sparkly, make better, just turn

⏹️ ▶️ John all of those off. If you don’t know what they are, just turn them off. Off, off, off, not low, not medium, like how much noise reduction

⏹️ ▶️ John do I want? Off, off, off, off, off. And then you turn everything off. And if you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John like how your television looks with everything off, you probably have a crappy TV. Maybe consider turning one

⏹️ ▶️ John or two things back on to make your crappy TV look better. But realistically, if you have a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John television, turn all that stuff off. I will put a link in the show notes to my fill your TV

⏹️ ▶️ John article, which was just the most basic plea to get people to show the full HD picture on their television,

⏹️ ▶️ John which I don’t think is unreasonable. Like, is that is that crazy that you know, they send a 1080 picture and you decide,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what, I don’t need to see the inch around the whole make stretch it out. So I don’t see that part of the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t do that. That is the easiest setting that everyone can fix in television. Everything else is much more complicated, you can calibrate your

⏹️ ▶️ John television, you get these calibration apps, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I would just Start by

⏹️ ▶️ John having your picture for your television. I’m glad the case he figured out how to do it on his television I’m sad that his television apparently is not

⏹️ ▶️ John listening to him when he does

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well that may or may not be true it very well could be user error and there might be some not even like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Go

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to the main or something

⏹️ ▶️ John instead of doing it on the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey floor Sure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in that and I have looked but I have I’ve only spent a moment looking at it and it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very well could be that I’m just either not realizing what the setting is called or not looking in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the right place Like I feel like I’m a reasonably bright guy, but I wouldn’t completely put it past me

⏹️ ▶️ John you got it It’s always like one for one or dot dot for dot or like you you said all the things of like the various names

⏹️ ▶️ John that They call them. It’s not always straightforward I think I mentioned this in the article about like sometimes it’s called size

⏹️ ▶️ John one on my television It’s called size one in size two which makes no freaking sense Which one and I would never remember which one is

⏹️ ▶️ John which but I just never change it in my television remember So I don’t have to worry about that. Although actually it’s not true I changed it

⏹️ ▶️ John recently because the stupid Wii U I’ve complained about this before in In Wii mode, when you play

⏹️ ▶️ John Wii games on the Wii U, because the Wii U will play old Wii games, Wii games were standard def, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John So when the Wii U plays them, it outputs into the title safe area, like it outputs

⏹️ ▶️ John the shrunken image on your HD screen. So if you have your television calibrated correctly and you play a Wii game, there’s a black border

⏹️ ▶️ John around the entire Wii game. And the only way to fix it, because Nintendo is stupid,

⏹️ ▶️ John is to change the size of your television and say, all right, while you’re playing this game, go into the stupid overscan mode

⏹️ ▶️ John where you stretch everything just so you’ll get the image to fill the screen and not have weird burn in around the edges or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I have changed that a couple times for my kids to play Wii games. But in general, I leave it

⏹️ ▶️ John on the correct mode as everybody should, because why would you know, you’re paying for the whole picture? Why not see it all?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It does drive me nuts on the Apple TV. I forget specifically what it is. But there’s something like a menu

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or maybe it’s the music app, something that that is clearly cut off on the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it drives me berserk but not enough that I’ve spent the time Spelunking through the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the owner’s manual in the menu system and all that trying to find the right switch to flip

⏹️ ▶️ John now I’m rooting for Declan to destroy your television accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Thanks, man.

⏹️ ▶️ John Smear some peanut butter into some very important part of it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey He’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have to get a lot taller because it’s up You

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you would hate where my TV has come to think of it because it’s above our fireplace on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the wall It’s the wrong place for it. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know it’s way higher than it should be But um, but there’s no other good spot for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I see that. You ever see like a house magazine, you know, like interior decorating magazine or some

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of home improvement magazine. Every single freaking house they show has television above the fireplace. And I’m like, who are

⏹️ ▶️ John these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, but they also, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the house magazine, they also have like white couches and like, yeah, even Casey is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t, you don’t have a white couch, do you? No, brown. Yeah. Like even, even Casey who gets white everything, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you wouldn’t get a white couch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He

⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t have a white couch for long. The decklams on the move

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, just life exists like nobody can have a white couch for more than like 10 minutes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before It’s not white anymore But if you look at all those magazines all their furniture is all white Because it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t need to be functional it just needs to look good in a picture

⏹️ ▶️ John New England you see a lot of it because New England houses were made before televisions existed So there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John place to put a television This is just there’s either windows on the wall like there’s no place to put a television where you could have a couch

⏹️ ▶️ John on you Know you have a television here and couch on the opposite side So the only place to do it is like a lot of the rooms are arranged so

⏹️ ▶️ John you can have a couch Facing your fireplace because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what

⏹️ ▶️ John they gathered around before they had television, right? And so the only place you have for your flat TV

⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s why people are excited by flat-palm tellers now we can finally hold it’ll hang it over our fireplace But then

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know doesn’t your neck hurt from like looking up towards the ceiling all the time It’s the wrong place for a TV

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it’s unequivocally the wrong place for the TV But the problem is we have if you’re sitting on the couch the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way we have the room arranged It’s a very very wide but very short room if that makes sense

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and so the couch is facing the fireplace just like you said and Above the fireplace is the TV because it’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the only decent place for it in the room I mean Marco spend there a handful times. It’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in terms of the room That’s the best place for the TV and to me the room Is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey priority not the TV and so we’ve put it in what is unequivocally in arguably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the wrong place Because I’d rather the room look good or well be reasonably arranged

⏹️ ▶️ Casey over the TV be in the most perfect viewing position

⏹️ ▶️ John Well you and tips should get together with your little society if we don’t care where the television is or what? Yeah your Margo

⏹️ ▶️ John television is too high and the historical society demands that he have a sound bar and those are two kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of things that are

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ John in in opposition to my value system that I don’t care about anything in the room except the TV

⏹️ ▶️ John and And I even I don’t have a good place for my I don’t have a good place for my TV either Like I have the same problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have a you know, a New England house. That’s centered around the fireplace I have almost no place to put my TV

⏹️ ▶️ John almost I just found one place to wedge it and I did the best I can but at the very least it’s at the right height

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, the funny thing is my house was built in like 98 or something like that So I don’t know why the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the family room was tradition

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like it is a certain

⏹️ ▶️ John style of home and a certain style of home was made the way now Now, rich people homes and modern homes always have a

⏹️ ▶️ John room, like, you know, a home theater room or like a room for like the room is that is absolutely 100% designed

⏹️ ▶️ John to say this entire wall is for you to put all your expensive AV equipment and directly opposite that

⏹️ ▶️ John entire wall is seating for a bunch of people who are facing it exactly like there’s a thing and you are facing

⏹️ ▶️ John it and there’s always like one perfect seat exactly in the middle of the room exactly in the middle of the surround speakers where you’re looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at the screen head on at exactly the right height. rich person house has that in it but unless

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re doing new construction or buying a house from a rich person you don’t have that you just have a house that’s made

⏹️ ▶️ John in a handful of styles most of which all the styles that were invented before televisions

⏹️ ▶️ John were around a flat panel or otherwise and so they just don’t have a place for a TV in them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just impressed that like that at the resolve of people like Casey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who can who wall mount a TV because like I like we’ve We’ve lived in this house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now for about five or six years. The TV has been in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same spot the entire time. I cannot think of a different place that we would put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a TV than where the TV is.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you’ve got challenges too, in your room, because it’s a big open room.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, but still, we’ve never placed a TV anywhere else. We never want it to be anywhere else. We put the TV there the day

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we moved in, and we’ve never moved it because it works great. And I still, I still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wouldn’t wall mount it, because to me that feels like such a big commitment. and it makes everything so much less flexible like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still would not wall mounted

⏹️ ▶️ John the cool wall mounts have like a swing arm where you can like face it in different directions and stuff well that’s not a big deal so

⏹️ ▶️ John the television especially with my you don’t realize because you have an older television but modern televisions are so thin and light

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s basically like a big monitor on an arm it’s actually pretty cool and it’s just a couple of bolts into the wall it’s not that big

⏹️ ▶️ John of a deal hmm now that I’m saying you should do I think your TV is fine where it is but you have the same problem where

⏹️ ▶️ John else could you put your television I can’t be like unless you decide to make an artificial wall out of your television,

⏹️ ▶️ John which I have to admit is probably something I would consider in your house. Obviously, not if

⏹️ ▶️ John Tiff had any say in it, but because that’s the real dream. Here’s the real dream of people who are…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would love to have you come over and suggest this to Tiff.

⏹️ ▶️ John People have TV obsessions. Here’s what you want. Obviously, you want a dedicated room. Although, I’m not that big about a dedicated home theater

⏹️ ▶️ John room down in the basement, because I feel like you’re always going to use whatever the upstairs room is near the kitchen, so I would make that

⏹️ ▶️ John my television room. The television is there and it’s facing me and the speakers are all

⏹️ ▶️ John arranged in the right way and all that other stuff. But here’s the important part. The whole wall

⏹️ ▶️ John that has the television and the speakers in it or in front of it or whatever, there has to be a room behind

⏹️ ▶️ John that wall. That can’t be like the end because getting to the crap behind all your

⏹️ ▶️ John AV equipment is a nightmare. So all the fancy rich people houses have essentially all your AV

⏹️ ▶️ John equipment and then you can walk behind it either because the rest of the house continues behind it or because it’s just like

⏹️ ▶️ John a crawlspace or an alcove or a cubby for both ventilation and because it is that is the ultimate luxury

⏹️ ▶️ John being able to walk behind your AV equipment, see all the wires have them all arranged like you’re in a data center

⏹️ ▶️ John like they’re all perfectly routed like Ethernet

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey cables going

⏹️ ▶️ John from racks and just that is just amazing. For me, I can’t get it my stuff without like contorting

⏹️ ▶️ John my body like a, you know, a yoga master getting behind there and bending down having a little

⏹️ ▶️ John flashlight and trying it’s just impossible because who the hell has enough room to have a room behind their

⏹️ ▶️ John television stuff. The only purpose of which is to get at the back of all your television stuff. Rich people, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why. The entire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rest of the country. That’s who. No. No. Everyone else except people who live on the coasts.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, they have big, they have big giant houses and McMansions, but unless you have a dedicated home theater room, they, even

⏹️ ▶️ John the people who wall mount, it’s like, well, you got one shot at this and the HDMI cable’s going down through the wall and it’s gonna poke out over here and this

⏹️ ▶️ John is where you need to put your stuff and if you ever need to mess around behind there, you’re basically gonna have to unplug it because, or slide

⏹️ ▶️ John your whole thing out It has to be on wheels like it’s a it’s a big pain So I you

⏹️ ▶️ John know I’ve only ever seen people who have dedicated rooms To also be able to have a room behind the room

⏹️ ▶️ John to get your AV stuff and that that is that’s where it’s at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Your next house, John. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John right now. My never house.