121: Admitted No Wrongdoing
09 Jun 2015Our WWDC 2015 special from San Francisco.
Episode Description:
Our WWDC 2015 special, live in person from a hotel room in San Francisco:
- The keynote presentation
- Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan
- Natural-language search
- Window management
- iOS 9
- iPad enhancements:
- Keyboard navigation gestures
- Side-by-side apps
- Will these revive iPad sales growth?
- New Notes app
- Folding Text is the app Marco couldn't remember the name of
- Apple
Instant ArticlesNews app - Swift going open-source
- watchOS 2.0
- Third-party complications
- Initial thoughts on the native API
- Post-show:
- Apple Music announcement
- John's Costanza wallet
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Transcript start
⏹️ ▶️ John I do I steal all the tissues out of the hotel room and then have to make sure they refill those boxes
⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes they don’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re live where we are in person in my hotel room with a whole bunch of equipment and wires
⏹️ ▶️ Marco everywhere recording this on a proper three-track recorder with three microphones
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we’re one is clipped to a table mine is clipped to a suitcase stand
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and John’s is clipped to a pole lamp and we are making this work. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Huge week. It’s odd looking at you guys. We do this every year, but it’s odd looking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at you guys while we’re doing the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John show. Do you
⏹️ ▶️ John have a little note thing normally when we record or is that just for today?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, this is just so I’m holding a field notes and I have… So the comedy behind this is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wrote some notes in my field notes, but I can’t read them because my handwriting is is crap in general, but my handwriting is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey unintelligible when I’m writing in a dark room, like, without having a surface to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John upon. Should
⏹️ ▶️ John have tapped them out on your little iOS device. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know why you’re writing
⏹️ ▶️ John in this field notes notebook that’s shaped like your butt.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I know I was off to paint you a word picture. So the field notes is concave, convex.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I always get it backwards. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it’s bent. Depends on which way you hold it. Yeah, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey guess that’s true. So it’s bent because it always resides in my back left pocket. It is crinkly as all
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything. And so, yeah, so I didn’t take copious notes. I don’t know. How do you want to start this?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, the morning was-
⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually, are we now learning, because I have notes. Are we learning that I took the best notes of the
⏹️ ▶️ John three of us? You know, I wasn’t taking notes. I’m on vacation. You’re on vacation in California.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you don’t say.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no, I didn’t take notes, but if I just saw like the agenda, like if you just have the agenda of
⏹️ ▶️ John the keynote, we’ll just go through it chronologically and assume that we will actually finish with the agenda. Marco can keep an eye
⏹️ ▶️ John on the time how far we’re through the agenda. If we spend 45 minutes on the first item, we’ll know that we have to move it
⏹️ ▶️ John Although, are we just going through the keynote? Or are we also going through the State of the Union?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Knowing us, we’ll barely make it through half the keynote. And the keynote was about seven hours
⏹️ ▶️ Casey long. So there’s that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And I want to say, we’ve done these recordings before. And for people who haven’t listened to
⏹️ ▶️ John them, I think the thing to remember is that we spent the day standing in
⏹️ ▶️ John lines, lines, attending the keynote. By the way, I’m actually at W W C in case you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco attending the
⏹️ ▶️ John keynote and then the state of the union. We haven’t had time to look up
⏹️ ▶️ John everything on all the websites or digest it all or whatever. So the main thing we’re bringing to this as people who are
⏹️ ▶️ John actually here, bringing to the people who aren’t here is that we were in the room and we could see the
⏹️ ▶️ John reactions and we’re sort of giving first impressions. So inevitably we will get things
⏹️ ▶️ John wrong. Like just before we started recording, I was asking, I wish I could see a particular slide because I have some memory
⏹️ ▶️ John of something being on that slide but I’m not entirely sure. So if we make mistakes, please forgive us. But we’re trying to give you the
⏹️ ▶️ John on the scene sort of flavor of WWDC, not so much a comprehensive no factual
⏹️ ▶️ John errors, complete coverage of everything that was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey announced today. Because clearly that’s what we do is a podcast that has no factual errors ever. And so this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John is an example.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the weird thing
⏹️ ▶️ John are here, you actually probably know less about the announcements than if you’re not here because
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re too busy being there for the things, you know?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right yeah like Jason still talked about that in upgrade last week about how like you know when you are covering
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the event you don’t have time the way everyone else does at home to go through all the websites and the documentation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right after the release and everything so we actually have had yeah you’re right we’ve had less time to go over this than a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of people have so we’re making a podcast about it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah but we have the things
⏹️ ▶️ John that they don’t have is that we get to end this is the thing people don’t know too when they release the videos of this they edit them
⏹️ ▶️ John they cut out parts that cut out audience noise ways. They cut out flubs. Sometimes they’re even edited
⏹️ ▶️ John for content, like when the guy typed the wrong thing into the whatever that was like
⏹️ ▶️ John what was that? I don’t know that was serious. You talk about during the music or no, like in the old thing that he was trying to say
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s road trip. Oh, you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey talking about
⏹️ ▶️ John last year, a Utah road trip or
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco something, but it all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco he put up the wrong song like that one with the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John serious thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John but anyway, being here live, that’s what you get and sometimes that’s significant and sometimes it’s not, but that’s what we’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Right. Lucky you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hooray. Well, let’s start. How about we do just a general overall feeling about the entire
⏹️ ▶️ Casey keynote? Let’s leave aside the State of the Union for now. So just the keynote in general, how did everyone feel?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll start off. The first half to two thirds, I thought was excellent. There’s a lot of enthusiasm.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Some of the things that I think the room found more enthusiastic, I was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey slightly surprised by. got really amped up about an announcement with regards to Swift, which we’ll talk about later.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But in general, I thought it was very good. It wasn’t quite the fast-paced, holy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey crap that was last year, in my personal opinion. Last year, I felt like my hair was getting blown back.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was so much, so fast. This year, it wasn’t that. The last third, however, basically,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey once Apple Music started, things took a turn, and we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talk about that as well. But I don’t know, Marco, Marco, what did you think about the whole thing?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought it was great. I mean, if we consider the first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco three quarters or whatever, like the first part before Apple Music, if Tim
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cook would have ended and instead of saying one more thing, said, thanks, well, this will be a great week. We’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see what you guys can do with this. Thanks a lot. And that was the end of it. I think it would have been a very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco different overall reaction. And until that point, really, I think the momentum was very good. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they ran through a lot of stuff. They ran through iOS 9, OS 10, is it El Capitan?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is that how you say that?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey El Capitan? I believe that’s right. We’re going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have to learn that. I guess El Cap, is that an
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco acceptable? Well, I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure Stephen Hackett’s going to be furious about this, but I will probably call it El Cap.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve heard California people call it El Cap, so I think that’s OK. But you never know with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco California people. Maybe they can say it, but we can’t. I don’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Isn’t Cali unacceptable? and don’t forget Frisco.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yep, we’re here in Frisco.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re here in Frisco Cali. Oh God, so many people are so angry
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco right now. Welcome
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Frisco, don’t touch anything. So I think you know, if you start at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the beginning, well you know, going through it, first of all, I would say, I took a note of this too, like the reactions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that people had to both Tim Cook and then to especially Craig Federighi,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these were like roaring cheers, like more than I’ve
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey heard since
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Steve Jobs at these events. People are really pleased with
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these execs. It was just very positive, very positive overall for them. I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so moving into what they announced, I mean, so first of all, I thought the opening film was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of funny. I heard a lot of people on Twitter were like, oh, this is lame. I thought
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was cute. I didn’t think it was bad.
⏹️ ▶️ John think it played well in the room. Of all
⏹️ ▶️ John opening videos they do that are supposed to be funny. They’re hit or miss. You know, it doesn’t really matter, but I thought this one
⏹️ ▶️ John was mostly hit and I didn’t hear a lot of groaning from the room and
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey at that point. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean the thing of the worst thing you could say about the opening video is that it didn’t seem particularly relevant, which you can kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of imagine it has to be that way because if you’re going to get a bunch of celebrities and someone to produce this video for you and everything
⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t like what if they had filmed a whole bunch of stuff about the new Apple TV like you know or teases
⏹️ ▶️ John about the new Apple TV and then they had to can it you know so that the opening joke can’t be about anything that announced,
⏹️ ▶️ John but then you’re like well, why is it even here is it just wasting time trying to entertain me the only thing I would really ding
⏹️ ▶️ John the opening video on is making a joke about objective C and not mentioning swift.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I thought it was good because what was it bill hater bill heater
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and he’s he’s awesome and so I thought as a cheesy and campy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey opening video it was about as delightful a cheesy and company campy opening video as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one could really hope for. So I give that two thumbs up. I thought it was fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and so you know, I think you can look at the room and you can say, you know, you’re right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco playing to that room, it worked. It was light-hearted, it was, you know, they know they’re not gonna get like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco comedy awards or the things they produce or anything, but it was light-hearted and it was nice, it was pleasant,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco parts of it were very funny, I thought, and it was fine, you know. And like, they usually open up with jokey
⏹️ ▶️ Marco videos, like there was like that Siri video
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey a few years
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago, that’s not new like to open up with the jokey video so that’s fine
⏹️ ▶️ John and this reference third party apps you had the little crows from Monument Valley in there you got angry birds
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it was a lot in there
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah a lot so that’s that if you’re playing to a room full of developers referencing a bunch of third-party apps is a good
⏹️ ▶️ John laptop in front of you so you can stay down Mike. I know right,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so they went over os ten first and so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco man. I wish we had somebody in the room who was an os ten expert
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like I tweeted. I was
⏹️ ▶️ John ten still gets top billing, which isn’t really true, because the last spots the good one, but anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John as I said, just just let me have this one. I was ten top billing
⏹️ ▶️ John that that keynote had was so long. I’m going to say I had so much stuff in it, but was so long
⏹️ ▶️ John that now I’m thinking back. What did they announce for a host tent? Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John it got its own name and it’s not snow, Yosemite or snow, Semity
⏹️ ▶️ John right like like that, and you think all who cares what its name right, but that is a signal that apple has used
⏹️ ▶️ John in the past to indicate an os release that is merely the previous
⏹️ ▶️ John os release, but kind of cleaned up a little bit. You had uh snow leopard
⏹️ ▶️ John and mountain lion and those were all modifiers of leopard and lion and that sends a clear signal about the intention
⏹️ ▶️ John of the os this one does el capitan which is kind of a modified version of yosemite because it’s a thing
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s in yosemite but it’s still trying to stand on its own
⏹️ ▶️ John the the thing that struck me about it is and still i’m still looking at from a reviewer’s perspective i’m like
⏹️ ▶️ John man the screenshots are going to look exactly the same this year as they I did it last year because last year was the big overhaul
⏹️ ▶️ John of everything looks in this year. I don’t was there anything to look different of the fonts different
⏹️ ▶️ John other than the font, but
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I kind of big.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean it’s only big to people who care about fonts. I can tell you that vanishing the small
⏹️ ▶️ John number of people even can even notice in like a test. Is this Helvetica or you know
⏹️ ▶️ John charcoal or S. B. Sands or Chicago? Maybe they could tell Chicago, but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah it is it is a new font, but other than that I don’t is there even any like new
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of controls or effects or widgets or anything like that so this is going to look very similar
⏹️ ▶️ John in the reviews and everything they concentrated on were a few underpinning text and a bunch of new features for
⏹️ ▶️ John apps it did not look like a big OS release and the other thing that struck me since
⏹️ ▶️ John this was their first announcement it’s like okay you’re gonna show us this new OS it’s gonna have a whole bunch of stuff in it that
⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of like well it’s like Yosemite but a couple things are better better or improved or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. They did not emphasize the idea that we’re taking this year to sort of
⏹️ ▶️ John make things perform better and make more stable. They did not hammer that at all. They merely just didn’t say
⏹️ ▶️ John anything. They just said this is, you know, OS 10 El Capitan and here’s what it has in
⏹️ ▶️ John it and these things that it has is great and moving on. They did not emphasize where
⏹️ ▶️ John like they did. They hit it with snow leopard to say like zero new features.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’re really going to try to, uh, you know, buckle down this time and concentrate on the
⏹️ ▶️ John core OS. I mean, I think they are doing that, but they didn’t say that in the messaging and that I think would be a theme
⏹️ ▶️ John throughout because a lot of the announcements in this keynote were like that, but it was unspoken like
⏹️ ▶️ John in the past show, I said, Hey, they can get lots of applause lines by saying that they didn’t go for them. They didn’t go for
⏹️ ▶️ John like that type of line. They just sort of went with the positives and didn’t put
⏹️ ▶️ John it in the context of we know that I was eight and Yosemite were big releases and there
⏹️ ▶️ John are a bunch of bugs that you wish we would fix.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I disagree. I think they did. I mean, so the way the way Federico introduced
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, he said they were like, you know, like these handful of headlining features. There was spotlight enhancements, some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco things to the built in apps, window management and performance and then metal was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John part of performance
⏹️ ▶️ John is not a big Yosemite. But here I put it in legal terms. They admitted no wrongdoing.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s you know, know they did a settlement and they say, but of course Apple admits so wrongdoing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there well, but you know first of all I think that’s very heavily implied by like the by the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear slowdown in in like headlining marketable features of these two os’s, but also
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know I think even with snow leopard they didn’t say man leopard was a piece of crap. We’re fixing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. They said we’re working on like you know making things better under
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the hood. They said like
⏹️ ▶️ John they had they said they were regrouping like they had to say why are we making a thing with no new features because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like it’s like a regrouping or rebuilding year like that that that is what we’re doing with this endeavor like they
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t feel they didn’t feel the need to excuse anything about El Capitan. They didn’t feel the need to
⏹️ ▶️ John explain why it didn’t have as many feet new features to demo is Yosemite or why the features were less
⏹️ ▶️ John dramatic at no point did they put it in the context of past releases of characterizing this release as small
⏹️ ▶️ John or less significant in any way
⏹️ ▶️ John think that’s fine. It’s a perfectly valid way to go. I just thought they would have gone for it to get to get sort of the
⏹️ ▶️ John credit for what it is they’re doing. And it seems like it’s not like a power. Like I
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t think they want to embarrass themselves. Now that you’re going to say your previous OS was a piece of crap, but to put
⏹️ ▶️ John this new release in context and say this release is a smaller release than our previous one,
⏹️ ▶️ John and that is a conscious choice, and it’s good for consumers because of X, Y and Z. They didn’t say that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s true. What do you think of the name? Because I don’t dig it. I I don’t think I really like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the California-themed names at all, because they don’t mean anything to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me. I can get behind tiger and leopard and even snow leopard. And granted, there aren’t snow leopards running around Virginia,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I mean, everyone can understand and appreciate animals. Whereas
⏹️ ▶️ Casey these, to me, kind of esoteric places in California, they just carry no weight
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John especially curious to hear you.
⏹️ ▶️ John I like it. I like that naming thing, because I think there are so many options. And I like this name admittedly because it was the name
⏹️ ▶️ John of the tower case. I believe it was the name of the entire tower case design that the power Mac G
⏹️ ▶️ John three and G four came in. This was the name of that of that thing. Um, but
⏹️ ▶️ John they sound cool. These are with the exception of Mavericks two out of three so far have been names that people
⏹️ ▶️ John know throughout the whole country. People know what Yosemite is and I think people know what this is even if they didn’t know about the case code
⏹️ ▶️ John names and that’s kind of what a name has to be. It’s just a filler marketing name. It’s better than
⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s better than a number. It’s better than the name of a wine.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s less highfalutin than whatever. I don’t even know what the wine name for this one is. Someone could look it up on the rumor sites,
⏹️ ▶️ John so I don’t mind it. And the OS itself, the things they changed are all like, yeah, that was kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of silly that was limited that way. And oh, that doesn’t look a cool feature, but I don’t care because I don’t use that app.
⏹️ ▶️ John So you know all the things they didn’t talk about, like if you Discovery D problems and this solves them, that will
⏹️ ▶️ John be worth the hassle of upgrading alone. But they didn’t talk about that at all because they would have to
⏹️ ▶️ John put that in context and sort of admit wrongdoing there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, right. I don’t know. What else do they talk about for OS X? I kind of blanked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in terms of my notes on what happened. There was the…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there was the window management stuff, the new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey like split-screen
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John enhancements
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to mission control and stuff like that. I mean, and that’s all, I think, fairly lightweight, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John nice. Well, the window management, I think, is interesting to me from the perspective from
⏹️ ▶️ John my perspective, how I manage windows and you know windows windows itself. Microsoft
⏹️ ▶️ John Windows has done this thing. The sort of drag the window to the side and have it fill the half screen or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever in the end. Of course, Linux window managers have been doing this for ages as well. Marco, you okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re dying over there. Fine. All right,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah, you can’t just get away with it now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John because we’re all in
⏹️ ▶️ John but the whole idea of like a tiling window manager is the opposite of how I
⏹️ ▶️ John manage windows. I manage windows with with overlapping windows. The way the
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac window management has been done since the dawn of the Mac windows overlap and even when I even use
⏹️ ▶️ John the same vocabulary, I’m like oh tile. I tile my windows, but what tile means is what they
⏹️ ▶️ John were showing where the windows don’t overlap and you divide the screen into fourths or thirds or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ John vertically horizontally and the windows don’t overlap and when I say tile is probably the wrong word. I mean like that they
⏹️ ▶️ John overlap and are you know staggered one after the other.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I think for people who want to people who are stuck in full-screen mode this may help get to shake them out of it
⏹️ ▶️ John and say hey you’ve got this big giant screen don’t make your text editor window fill your entire 24 inch screen because you’re not gonna write
⏹️ ▶️ John lines that are 700 characters long. Maybe I don’t know split your screen vertically and have
⏹️ ▶️ John two things you know I just it’ll help people along who are addicted
⏹️ ▶️ John to full-screen apps even on giant monitors and maybe on small monitors that’ll give them a chance and there’s a nice symmetry with iOS
⏹️ ▶️ John 9’s features that we’ll talk about later but from my perspective this is window management
⏹️ ▶️ John that is not even up to the complexity of third-party Mac apps that have been around for ages like Divi
⏹️ ▶️ John and Moon, is it called? There’s a bunch of other ones that are like that. I just don’t have interest in these things so these features
⏹️ ▶️ John of El Capitan don’t interest me but I think it’s good that they’re there to sort of
⏹️ ▶️ John be like training wheels for people who aren’t very good at window management to say, here are some more
⏹️ ▶️ John options and they’re built into the OS and you don’t have to install scary third party app. And maybe maybe they will help you feel
⏹️ ▶️ John comfortable with windows in a way that you don’t currently feel comfortable. Yeah, that’s fair.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, was it during the OS 10 portion that they announced that core animation is moving to metal
⏹️ ▶️ Casey instead of open GL?
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, they announced that metal was coming to us 10 and this there’s a lot of announcements this year. Like, yeah, we all figured that from last year.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, is that announced metal and it’s iOS only and it’s like why is it iOS only the only reason you can think
⏹️ ▶️ John of is because they have limited resources and time and iOS is more important and it will come to the Mac eventually and it did
⏹️ ▶️ John and they put their stuff on top of it and it’s good you know thumbs up like and
⏹️ ▶️ John Craig Federer you threw up the horns of course briefly I’m pretty sure
⏹️ ▶️ John mark needs to see what the horns are these are the horns mark is that a reference mess with the bull you get the horns okay
⏹️ ▶️ John need the one you get that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know I know I know that’s a reference was I don’t know from where you should
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John chat room is silently shaming you can’t you should
⏹️ ▶️ Casey see this is different now because I can see
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the discussion,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the absolute disgust on John’s face. Typically, I’m behind a monitored so and we don’t do video
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when we record, so I don’t get to see how unbelievably upset in frustrated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, but this time I did I think he threw up the horns
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John again. I don’t have a look at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. I thought he as well. That’s all right. What else happened to Noah Sten? You know, they didn’t do,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it just occurred to me, they didn’t do a control center, right? Or did I totally miss that? Control center?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about doing the, you know, the same thing where you swipe up from the bottom on iOS, where they were going to swipe from the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey left on… A notification center type thing, but the other side? Right, right. That was a pretty solid rumor,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco until… I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mark Gurman was wrong about that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, or maybe we just don’t know it yet.
⏹️ ▶️ John still be there. That type of stuff. Or maybe it gets cut.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I think they would have shown that off.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I think so, too. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco glad it’s not there honestly. When I heard these rumors, I was not looking forward to that honestly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for next year. Exactly. Alright, so before we move on to iOS, let’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco talk about our first sponsor. It is our friends at Cards Against Humanity.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, Cards Against Humanity, rather than actually giving us a sponsorship
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to read, they have asked John to review a toaster. So John, what is the toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John So this week’s toaster is the Hamilton Beach Toast Station Model two two seven two two.
⏹️ ▶️ John if you pull this up because this is this marks a turning point. I think in our
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey toaster what is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John bomb exactly
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s not a reference.
⏹️ ▶️ John It is kind of an octo parrot. What is that shouldn’t be Casey does not get that reference. Nope.
⏹️ ▶️ John Neither does Marco. This thing I will describe it for you. It looks like a toaster oven and it’s seeing
⏹️ ▶️ John it in person. It’s like my breville toaster oven was cut in half, so it was half the
⏹️ ▶️ John depth, so it sticks out from the wall of my kitchen half as far right. So that’s the first chop and the
⏹️ ▶️ John second chop is vertically where the door that opens up is half the height of the toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John and what are they doing with the rest of the vertical head of the toaster? There’s a slot in the top where you put pieces
⏹️ ▶️ John of bread product in and push down a knob on the side. This is a slot toaster and a toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John over in one. We will put the link in the show so you can look at it. It’s kind of like one of those magician boxes where you expect there’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John mirrors in there. It’s like when you push down the toast, where does the toast go? Well, there are no mirrors. It’s not magic when you put
⏹️ ▶️ John toast in the top of this thing in a slot and push them down. They sit vertically in the middle of the toaster oven, so you
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t use the slot duster portion in the regular oven portion at the same time. Well, that’s not that unreasonable
⏹️ ▶️ John right well. So here’s here’s the thing like a refrigerator. This has this has many,
⏹️ ▶️ John many compromised right well. First, let’s talk about the interface. It has an on off switch, which
⏹️ ▶️ John is nice. So you can turn the darkness knob to whatever you want and then use the on off switch. But it also of course
⏹️ ▶️ John has the toaster plunger part where you don’t use the on off switch then you then you just push down the little plunger if you’re using the slot toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. The the supposed benefits of slot toasters that it toasts faster and
⏹️ ▶️ John this is a little bit faster. It’s like three minutes for two slices, which is a little bit faster than the rebel,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s not that much faster because it’s got it’s got to sort of quartz heating elements in the bottom and then it’s got
⏹️ ▶️ John one heating element on the side of the slot and one heating element on the other side of the slot. That does
⏹️ ▶️ John speed things up a little bit. But what do you trade that for? Well, you
⏹️ ▶️ John put things in the slot toaster on the top and they come out not very evenly browned at all, which kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of makes sense because it’s just one heating element either side. It’s not like a real slot toaster where they have all the resistive wires going
⏹️ ▶️ John all over and gives nice even heat over the whole piece of bread. These things come out super spotty like big
⏹️ ▶️ John dark spots, big spots that are underdone. And the first time I tried to use it, I put English
⏹️ ▶️ John muffins in the top and the slot is very wide. I’m assuming to to be able to support bagels, but it doesn’t grip things
⏹️ ▶️ John very closely. So I put English muffins, which are not very wide in there and pressed it down and then tried to pop
⏹️ ▶️ John them back up and one of the English muffins had the sort of like bent over because there was too much room in the slot and it curled
⏹️ ▶️ John back on itself. When I popped it up, it had like crunched over and didn’t pop back up and I had to fish it out with a knife. This is the very
⏹️ ▶️ John first time I’m using this thing, so the slot toaster is crap like it does not toast as well as a real slot
⏹️ ▶️ John toaster does. It’s a little bit faster than a toaster, but what you get out of it is worthless. I would never toast anything in that
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s worse than all of my toaster ovens. It is not evenly brown. It is not very fast, and then
⏹️ ▶️ John the toaster oven portion is super small. You can only put two slices of bread in there. Your height is compromised.
⏹️ ▶️ John The little door that you open is super chintzy feeling, and when the thing is done, it makes this terrible long beeping
⏹️ ▶️ John sequence that you wish would stop like it beeps two times. You pull the toast and just keeps beeping and keeps beeping.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is the new champion for the worst toaster that I have ever tested. It is not a good toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John oven. It is not a good slot toaster, and people kept sending this to me. We were talking about hey, you should check this out. It’s a slot toaster
⏹️ ▶️ John and toaster is bad at both of those jobs. Do not buy this product. I do not understand how it has
⏹️ ▶️ John a three and a half star rating on Amazon. Wow,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so what you’re saying is that this is not as good as your other toaster.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not it’s just not good like the picture. They have a second picture on Amazon. If you swipe it shows like this beautifully brown
⏹️ ▶️ John bread coming out that does not happen. No bread that looks like at ever comes out of this toaster.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you’re saying that slot toasters may not be sufficient for
⏹️ ▶️ John This is not a slot toaster. I think slot toasters are fine or would do better than this, because again, if slot toasters have lots of you ever see them with
⏹️ ▶️ John little wires that glow orange
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey inside them, there’s a whole bunch of those
⏹️ ▶️ John wires crisscross and they browned evenly. This just has to toaster oven elements sitting on either side of the
⏹️ ▶️ John slots and it also turns on the two bottom ones. It’s it’s a mess. This is like someone thought it would be a
⏹️ ▶️ John good idea, but it is totally not. How much does it cost? I didn’t even look well
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey like $32. It
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of get what you pay for, but please don’t buy this. Mine was read. The only thing it has to recommend
⏹️ ▶️ John is that mine came in red, which is kind of cool looking. But other than that, does it match your
⏹️ ▶️ Casey toaster? Thumbs down. So fun fact, Hamilton Beach’s headquarters
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are in Richmond, Virginia. You can go there
⏹️ ▶️ John and throw eggs at it later. I think we’ve done another Hamilton Beach toaster, but I remember what the model
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks a lot to cards against humanity for sponsoring our show once again.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey All right, oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are we done with os 10.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I think we’re never as
⏹️ ▶️ John far as any of us can remember from the keynote probably, but as I go to sessions and learn new things,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sure new things will come up right. Okay,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey but if you know the
⏹️ ▶️ John keynote, they didn’t spend much time on it right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It wasn’t that much now. Okay, so I’m sorry, Marco carry on.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so big kill any features of ios 9 were a lot of the api improvements
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then user facing stuff. There’s this new proactive assistant and part of this is on os 10 as well in the new series or the new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco spotlight window it seemed like this is a lot of this a lot of similar kinds of stuff so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco big disappointment for me the the forced search page on springboard is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now back but you know remember the way it used to be where spotlight was a page on the left
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now it’s still now once again it’s a page on the left but besides that it looks pretty good
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m curious to see I mean they they seem to be integrating a whole lot of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like web service type stuff in here, you know, web data results, like it really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a continuation of them kind of encroaching on Google’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco territory and not, you know, not in some ways and not quite to the degree Google does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco these things, but you could tell that that’s kind of the direction they’re trying to go in. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know, I mean, to me, like I have found things like the Safari autocomplete for websites
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that doesn’t use Google at all. Things like the current Spotlight on iOS 8 that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco tries to integrate web and app store results and everything, it has some problems sometimes. But for the most part, this stuff works
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty well for me. So this looks like a pretty good continuation of that process.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m really excited about the app indexing kind of thing, where you can, like now apps
⏹️ ▶️ Marco either through their websites or through the app itself on the phone, they can publish searchable data
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Spotlight and for Siri, and that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty cool. Yeah, that’s pretty fascinating. What was interesting to me about the whole iOS 9 section was we got to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey see how Apple, well, maybe not the mechanisms, but the features that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple is putting together to try to combat, what is it, Google Now, where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Google, since Google, in many cases, has all of your data, it knows
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you’re going to fly next and when you have another appointment.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Server side, Google can look at that and say, oh, well, Casey is supposed to go to dinner with Aaron in 20
⏹️ ▶️ Casey minutes, but traffic says if he doesn’t leave now, he’s going to miss it. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was interesting seeing how Apple’s trying to create some of that Google Now functionality, but without crawling
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all your data server side. Now, what was very hand wavy and don’t worry your pretty little
⏹️ ▶️ Casey faces was, well, how are they really accomplishing that on the device? And the implication was,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and in many ways the statement was, well, it’s all happening on the device, so it’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. And they made a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of indirect and direct comments about privacy and about, oh, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey under your control. Everything is on, the users own all this data. We don’t want to know. Actually,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they literally occasionally said, we don’t want to know. Often they said, we don’t know or can’t know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so it was very interesting to me to see Apple’s reaction to that kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of omnipresent Google that people either love or hate, depending on what your particular opinion
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t know if that strategy, I can’t tell if that strategy is like, this is our corporate differentiator.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is what we believe as people that we don’t want that thing. Or that it’s like, that’s what they have.
⏹️ ▶️ John They don’t have the server capacity. Because thinking about the on-device stuff, right? So Google checks your email,
⏹️ ▶️ John figures out that you have a flight, and can do all that stuff. Because it sees your email everywhere, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Whereas Apple’s like, oh, this all happens on-device. And that sounds fine to you. like well, but what if I don’t check
⏹️ ▶️ John that mail account on my iPad? Does that mean my iPad doesn’t know I have a flight? And if it’s all on device,
⏹️ ▶️ John the answer is yeah, how could the iPad know that you have a flight if you’re not checking that email account from your maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t matter. Maybe people don’t have 50 email accounts and they check all their email accounts on every device or whatever. But basically,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re the smarts are isolated and confined to the data that’s on that device. But your
⏹️ ▶️ John life may encompass more data than it’s on any single device. And so how can it
⏹️ ▶️ John get a picture of my whole life. If all the stuff is necessarily local, I feel like if Apple is going
⏹️ ▶️ John to make more intelligent features, it’s going to have to eventually move away from that, and I don’t think that’s such a big deal like they don’t read our messages.
⏹️ ▶️ John The messages are all two way encrypted, but there should be a way like you need some global
⏹️ ▶️ John awareness that is not confined to a device to do really smart things. So this is a good start for Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can do lots of smart things just on the device, but if you tried to explain
⏹️ ▶️ John to to a person. Why like well, why doesn’t it’s hard to say, but it’s like the watch
⏹️ ▶️ John is not really an independent device or whatever, but like why doesn’t my iPad know that I have a flight?
⏹️ ▶️ John You know if I use Google, everything knows like when I’m on if I use Google when I’m on my computer at work, it pops
⏹️ ▶️ John up a thing in my face. It says, oh don’t forget about your flight, but on my my apple stuff only
⏹️ ▶️ John my phone knows why is that well because you’re at work and you’re not checking your your home email and your work thing
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re just checking your exchange or like trying to explain to them the technical intricacies they won’t understand and and you try to explain
⏹️ ▶️ John well, it’s for privacy reasons. So apple doesn’t have your date and they’re like well. I just want to my computers. Tell me my
⏹️ ▶️ John flight is like this is the thing that frustrates Marco so much that people don’t care as much about
⏹️ ▶️ John privacy. Certainly as Marco does and perhaps not even as much as apple does. I think their biggest the best
⏹️ ▶️ John selling point is we won’t sell your stuff for third parties. Won’t give your stuff a third parties like if you decide that you trust
⏹️ ▶️ John apple for whatever reason you’re you only have to trust us. You don’t have to trust us and everybody we will ever do
⏹️ ▶️ John business for which is technically not true because apple could give your information to whoever the hell they wanted, but their current
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey terms and conditions and their current
⏹️ ▶️ John strategies. They’re telling you hey, you know that’s that’s a value proposition. Give your data to apple. We won’t look
⏹️ ▶️ John at it. We won’t give it to anybody else that I think is a little bit easier to sell for people who are scared of privacy, but I think history
⏹️ ▶️ John is shown that people like all right, well fine, whatever have all my data. I just want to know my flight is no matter where I am,
⏹️ ▶️ John so I think apple is going to not this year, but some future generation come up against
⏹️ ▶️ John this barrier and said we’ve done everything we can do local. How do we How do we get
⏹️ ▶️ John information about you and your life that spans all of our devices while still keeping your data private?
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not entirely sure they know yet.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Lewis & Norton I think time will tell. Apple is really hitting home on this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or driving this home, because I think you’re right that this is some of what they believe.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They truly believe this is very important. But also, this is obviously competitive differentiator.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think the market cares as much as Apple does. That might not be a bad thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The market doesn’t care about attention to detail as much as Apple does, or design as much as Apple does in general
⏹️ ▶️ Marco either. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do those things, and that doesn’t appeal to a lot of people anyway. I think
⏹️ ▶️ John that influences people on a subconscious level,
⏹️ ▶️ John whereas these privacy things, I’m not sure that they do. I’m not sure people are even aware of.
⏹️ ▶️ John We talked about this with iMessage, I talked about it on when I was on rocket like the privacy advantages
⏹️ ▶️ John of iMessage are really beyond people’s knowing. All they know is like if I
⏹️ ▶️ John looked at I looked at this conversation on my Mac and then I looked at it on my phone and some stuff wasn’t in both places
⏹️ ▶️ John and they don’t understand why and if you try to explain to them they don’t care. They just want it to be everywhere like Google
⏹️ ▶️ John works the way people Google stuff works the way people think modern computers should work and when anybody
⏹️ ▶️ John ever gets used to my stuff everywhere. Anything that is not everywhere, they think it was a bug, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, well, my Google stuff is everywhere. I like that better. Right? Right.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. It’s funny. Quick aside, I was on the plane on the way to San Francisco,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I hadn’t had my laptop connected to the internet in, I don’t know, a few hours or something like that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the plane, where I’m on this god-awful, terrible connection, which is to be expected, because I’m in a tube 30,000
⏹️ ▶️ Casey feet in the sky. I noticed or I was trying to carry on a conversation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Aaron via iMessage but it was completely unintelligible because what ended up happening is I would
⏹️ ▶️ Casey type something, send it, and then messages from hours ago would come in below what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had just typed and so I could not follow the conversation because I was reliving the conversation from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey hours before and it was at the in the heat of the moment it was extremely frustrating and thankfully
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I understand enough about the mechanisms behind it to have realized well you know I’ll just have to wait this out,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I could see how to a regular user that would be unbelievably infuriating.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but the local on device, there’s lots of low hanging fruit they can do local on device and I think that they’re doing this
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, what they’re doing, all these things are doing despite characterizing it as like the anti-Google, they’re doing
⏹️ ▶️ John Google like things. They’re doing them on your device, but it’s very Google like. And these are the
⏹️ ▶️ John best things for Google, things that people like from Google. So I think these sort of intelligent
⏹️ ▶️ John features if they work well will help apple catch
⏹️ ▶️ John up a little bit to the good impression that google makes in people’s mind when it does smart
⏹️ ▶️ John things of like presenting them with information just in time in the watch helps that presenting them with information just
⏹️ ▶️ John in time that is relevant to them with context like even just the simple stuff of
⏹️ ▶️ John remind me about this later really easy to do but once someone gets used to it any device
⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t have that very simple context awareness will seem dumber.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, absolutely. The other thing that I noticed that Apple seems to be doing a lot with is natural
⏹️ ▶️ Casey language processing. And I can’t think of an example right off the top of my head that was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from the keynote, but something like Fantastical is famous for. So, you know, dinner tomorrow with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron at 5pm. And you type all that out, you type the words, dinner tomorrow with Aaron at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey 5pm, and it will parse out the relevant pieces and file them away in a calendar appointment as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey expected. Well, this wasn’t specifically about calendaring in the keynote, but they were doing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey similar style of natural language searches in Spotlight, for example, which were really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey impressive. I think they did an example with photos, if I’m not mistaken.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even worked in Finder on the Mac. That engine was on the Mac, it was in Finder,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was in iOS, in Spotlight, and in Siri. That was really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over the place, and it looked pretty impressive the challenge. I think for I there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna be two challenges like you know geeks like us we won’t know what we can do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John there like we just want to
⏹️ ▶️ John use the K prefix constants KMD
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like that query syntax
⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense to geeks. I remember loving alt of Easter because it worked in such a a
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of deterministic way you could do plus and minus words the pages would have those words in it made
⏹️ ▶️ John absolute sense to them a Google came along it’s like I can type words into the Google search box, but some of these words might not even appear
⏹️ ▶️ John on the page. Because if I type like how to cook an omelet, the page might not even have the word how on
⏹️ ▶️ John it like it’s a different mode. So if you’re a programmer,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you’re like, I just want
⏹️ ▶️ John a deterministic machine. You just tell me the query language
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and I will construct the query,
⏹️ ▶️ John but that is not how people query things. And so yeah, spotlight has had all these features for a long time.
⏹️ ▶️ John Nobody uses them except for geeks and even geeks can’t remember that all the stupid K prefix contents. So this this
⏹️ ▶️ John upgrade to spotlight of having natural language querying and the fantastic. I was a great example of like I use Google’s
⏹️ ▶️ John appointments partly because they do a little bit of that natural language stuff like I do like you know 1 p.m. haircut
⏹️ ▶️ John even something as simple as that trying to enter 1 p.m. haircut in Apple’s things is way harder
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey space haircut
⏹️ ▶️ John and it shouldn’t be harder and so Apple is again playing catch up here but long overdue and the thing
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s a lot of room to grow because when they say like oh you know during dinner with Aaron at 7 what if you
⏹️ ▶️ John knew two people named Aaron
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah that’s where
⏹️ ▶️ John things things fall down and like or it’s like oh well, maybe it presents a picker and shows me the two people in air and I pick the one
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s like the next hole. The next level is look ninety nine percent of the time. I mean that Aaron
⏹️ ▶️ John and if when I say Aaron just pick that one put the picker up and if I don’t do anything with
⏹️ ▶️ John it, just default it to that like that’s it’s like next you know getting up the sort of human assistant level where I don’t. I don’t need
⏹️ ▶️ John to clarify who it is or even if you could like if they were all and find your friend, find my friends
⏹️ ▶️ John and one of the people is not within flying assistants to be there. I figure out because they live in a different state. I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ John this. There is a long way to go to do you know intelligent assistant type stuff, so it’s good seeing
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple getting a start in this area.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well and a lot of this stuff is hard like if you think about an actual assistant, which I don’t think any of us have ever actually had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right. Nope, okay, but hops right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John now, I don’t think you see a big house
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of limited usefulness. He’s mostly moral support, but but you know he so
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so actual assistance even have problems with these things like human beings have problems
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a lot of these things like if you say something that is ambiguous or or can be easily
⏹️ ▶️ Marco misunderstood to mean something else or you know like then like this is this is a problem that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in on some levels can’t be solved or has like a ceiling on how well it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John can well i mean
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s that they need to clarify the system. A good system would clarify and so will a computer, but the computer can be madding because it clarifies
⏹️ ▶️ John every time that’s like oh jesus yes, it’s still that erin
⏹️ ▶️ John always going to be that unless another erin is in play like I get that has an appointment with them. I’ve received an
⏹️ ▶️ John email from the reason like things that a human assistant would know whether they have the human assistant would not repeatedly
⏹️ ▶️ John clarify which errand you’re talking about different because there’s two in your address book like just because they’re in my address book. They don’t have equal value
⏹️ ▶️ John right. They don’t have equal relevance to me and that type of information about who is again this requires global awareness.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe that person other errand is in your address book because you sent them an email three years ago. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John the relevance of that person that entry you don’t want to delete it because you might want to email them again like they’re your real estate agent or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve got a long way to go in this area, but it’s good to see Apple getting started.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s the kind of area that Google is usually much better at than Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s why I worry a little bit about… I’m curious to see how this ends up working with Apple,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they show signs of being able to do this kind of thing and improving in this area. Because historically,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, I think they’ve lagged very far behind Google historically and that kind of like big data problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Absolutely. Do we want to talk about the Apple Pay changes? And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey more specifically, actually, I wanted to bring up, we saw two women on stage today. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which was awesome and surprising. And it was so surprising that I actually wanted to call
⏹️ ▶️ Casey out a text message I got from a co-worker as I was sitting in the keynote. I believe that she was referring
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to, that my co-worker was referring to the second woman who came on stage. I apologize
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because I don’t remember their names. But I got this text message from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my friend at work, Chris. She said, what? A woman presenting something at Apple?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was phenomenal to her. And this is someone who is really enthusiastic about the watch,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but generally speaking, doesn’t pay the kind of attention that we pay. So this is like a quote unquote normal,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is such a dismissive way of describing her. And I don’t mean it to be dismissive. But someone who doesn’t really follow this like we
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do was stunned that there was one woman brought on stage, let alone two.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I’m really pleased that Apple’s finally listening and making these strides.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And a friend of the show, Christina Warren, who was on the show, what, two weeks ago? She actually interviewed Tim
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cook, was it Sunday night, I believe? Something like that. For Mashable. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey she had pressed him on this a little bit. And he said, basically, watch this space. And sure enough, we watched the space.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And there were two women presenters. And I thought they were great.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that was teased in that interview. And it’s good to see it. Tim Cook was very
⏹️ ▶️ John forthcoming with the whole diversity report and everything, that they have not done well in here, and they are making changes to improve
⏹️ ▶️ John things. Was it half women? Was it majority women? No, but it was more than zero. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know, they’re making progress. It
⏹️ ▶️ John was two in seven. Right. And the other thing to keep in mind about WWDC is, well, the glory
⏹️ ▶️ John things, like the keynote and the State of the Union, used to be just all men. And now getting women there is super important.
⏹️ ▶️ John But if you don’t go to WWDC, you may not realize how many technical sessions at WWDC
⏹️ ▶️ John are presented either primarily by women, like they’re the main speaker for the whole thing, or incorporate
⏹️ ▶️ John women. Like there are women and that was the whole thing. It’s like there are women on Apple’s team, like Apple’s diversity is not
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not great, but it’s not terrible. And like, it was very commonplace to see women giving presentations
⏹️ ▶️ John and any type of presentation at WWDC, right? But you’d never saw them in the keynote. So that’s what
⏹️ ▶️ John made it all the more glaring. It’s like, well, we’ve got a company full of all these people. But really, the only people
⏹️ ▶️ John who ever get to talk is to Tim Cook and a bunch of other similarly age, similarly appearing men.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so yeah, they’re mixing and like that’s all thing. We we didn’t know the names of these people. Steve Jobs is big and like not telling you the names
⏹️ ▶️ John of anybody who’s in the company except for like the big headline executives. That’s why everyone thought it would be Angela, whose
⏹️ ▶️ John last name I can’t parents Angela Aaron’s like oh she’ll definitely be up there because she’s the the woman who’s on their
⏹️ ▶️ John you know C level executives page, but there are tons of women at Apple and I don’t think it was particularly hard to find
⏹️ ▶️ John them like you know who’s the head of Apple pay apparently this woman who we never knew before because you know who knows
⏹️ ▶️ John how to present the Apple pay as part instead of having Phil Schiller do it or something right yeah it just makes perfect sense and
⏹️ ▶️ John and I think they did great I think they both looked a little bit nervous as we know the men who have presented for the first time
⏹️ ▶️ John also felt a little nervous oh yeah I think that the second one up she had a really good joke about
⏹️ ▶️ John reading ESPN for the articles
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey and she seemed very relaxed and the reaction to them
⏹️ ▶️ John in the room in the room was good they were they did much better than a lot of men first-time
⏹️ ▶️ John presenters. And it’s difficult for them to be in the spotlight about like, oh, are you just a woman presenter? Or are you like,
⏹️ ▶️ John these are people in charge of these parts of the product. They’re not just like plucked out of, oh, you’re a woman. Can you talk about this
⏹️ ▶️ John product? Like, they’re in charge of this. This is their job. So it’s I thought it was exactly
⏹️ ▶️ John what it should have been. The actual women behind important technologies present doing presentations
⏹️ ▶️ John on those technologies that they created, that their team created. So big thumbs up.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, definitely. So I brought up Apple Pay because it was, you know, the woman who was in charge of Apple Pay that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey presented. I didn’t think there was too much there to unpack. The couple of highlights for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me were loyalty cards being integrated into Passbook, which is sort of not Passbook anymore.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’ll get there in a second. That’s really exciting to me because about a year ago, I tried to slim down my wallet from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey being as thick as John’s wallet, which I’m looking at next to him and it’s like four feet thick. It’s all money.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this guy making it rain in here
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John we’ll have to do a strip
⏹️ ▶️ Casey club. It’s cool. Oh God, so we’re gonna have to talk in the post show about how wrong a trifold wallet is but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco leave that for another time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but anyway so loyalty cards are now in passbook which when I went through this like wallet
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cleansing and purging event about a year ago what I found was I had you know a bunch of loyalty cards
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I use once a month But I want to have them because they save me money or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey earn me perks or whatever the case may be. And so I wanted to have them with me and so what I ended up doing was putting those
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all in my glove box. Well in my car. Well it would be awesome to have that in Passbook
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I don’t need to worry about that anymore and that’s exactly what’s coming with iOS 9. I thought
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was awesome. Any thoughts about that before I move on gentlemen?
⏹️ ▶️ John The favorite thing I have about loyalty cards is that once you get a loyalty
⏹️ ▶️ John loyalty card and you put it into apple pay. It’s a signifier that store accepts apple pay,
⏹️ ▶️ John because otherwise how would they let you put your royalty card in it? So it is you know if you’re going to slim down your wallet, you
⏹️ ▶️ John should be pulling out like pulling out credit cards that can go in now play pulling out loyalty
⏹️ ▶️ John cards to go into apple play and all of that means another location where you can use apple pay and having used apple pay now for a little while.
⏹️ ▶️ John I wish every place could use
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s much more convenient than digging out your big giant wallet and pulling things out of it. So it’s going to take a while
⏹️ ▶️ John for us to get there, but I can imagine certain people if they pick where they shop very carefully, which is exactly what
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple wants. Like you should, you know, frequent Apple Pay stores as a reward for them carrying Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John Pay. I’ve been surprised so far at the success of Apple Pay. One of the ones, one of the places I tried to use Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John Pay recently didn’t take it was up on that slide. Trader Joe’s. I went there and like, do you take Apple Pay? They’re like, oh, sorry, we don’t. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John they’re going to this year. So they’re knocking them down one by one. All the stores that we go to. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey awesome. The other thing I wanted to note about Apple Pay was that they are
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now partnering with Square, maybe, I’m assuming it’s a partnership, but anyway, they’re partnering with Square to make
⏹️ ▶️ Casey some sort of NFC-based Apple Pay reader to work with Square,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which I thought was a phenomenally bright idea for both companies. I mean, to me, it seemed like a win-win because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Square is becoming kind of omnipresent. And even in places like Richmond,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not a San Francisco thing. I mean, even in Richmond, you see any sort of independent vendor is using Square
⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. And to have Apple Pay support for something as ubiquitous as Square,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think is extremely bright. And it seems that both Square and Apple are pushing that pretty heavily,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which to me is brilliant. So I definitely applaud that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, that is a genius move. Like, I’m kind of honestly, I’m kind of surprised it didn’t happen when Apple Pay was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco launched last fall. But I’m glad it’s happening now because that will make it a lot easier
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a lot more places to take it.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’re complementary systems. Because remember, Square has always been like, oh, there’s this little reader that you put into your headphone jack
⏹️ ▶️ John on your thing. And if you have a kiosk, you can use an iPad kiosk. And then
⏹️ ▶️ John hook up a card swiper thing to it. Like, they always have that sort of, it’s like the last mile problem of payment. Like, how
⏹️ ▶️ John do you get a thing from a customer that lets you pay with? And magnetic stripes are so barbaric that there was always
⏹️ ▶️ John the barrier. It’s like, now that has been solved. Hopefully, your
⏹️ ▶️ John well-heeled customers all have iOS devices that have Apple Pay. And yeah, it works
⏹️ ▶️ John best in cities filled with people who have iOS devices
⏹️ ▶️ John Square is filling a need that like, you know, it’s not like Walmart is going to use Square. Like the big credit card
⏹️ ▶️ John processors are geared towards the big customers. But if you’re just selling a bunch of stuff out of like a kiosk or something,
⏹️ ▶️ John like a craft fair, having Square is awesome because it makes you as fancy as the big vendors. But
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s something you can set up yourself in a weekend and take payments from anybody with an iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, I definitely applaud it. Marco, why don’t you tell us about something else that’s cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our second sponsor this week is Automatic. Automatic is basically a little Bluetooth dongle
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco And what this does is this is a little dongle you plug in and then it has a smartphone app that runs on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS or Android. And then they have a whole suite of apps and they have an API,
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So we should continue with iOS 9. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey today was Federico Vittici’s birthday. It was Christmas. It was New Year’s.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was everything to Federico. And I actually exchanged a couple of text messages with him. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey suffice to say, he is beside
⏹️ ▶️ Marco himself. Did that cost him like a million dollars in roaming fees?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Well, thank goodness it was actually iMessages. Yeah, anyway, there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot of attention paid to the iPad. And a lot of features, or maybe
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not that many, but important features to make using the iPad as
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a workhorse, a much easier and more productive device.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The quick and easy ones, they seem to be doubling down on keyboard support, physical keyboard support.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So they have an alt tab switcher or command tab. God, oh
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John man, I’m gonna get an email for that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh God, now I want to crawl in a hole. I’m just going to crawl under Marco’s bed real quick and cry.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco They have a command tab switcher. That
⏹️ ▶️ Casey doesn’t sound weird at all. Yeah, that’s not weird at all. They have a command tab switcher. I think they have more keyboard shortcuts. They kind of flashed
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a few things on screen and I didn’t get a chance to catch them all. But what was really interesting is, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want to play with it because it did not look terribly intuitive to me, but I suspect once I use it, it won’t be so bad,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the keyboard on iPad apparently is now a trackpad when you use more than one finger at a time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did you guys kind of catch, I was trying to watch how that works, and it was flying by way too quick
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for me to really understand.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is a feature of one of my favorite iOS apps that I really hoped that Apple would bring everywhere, but I use it on my iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ John Twitterific added a feature in a recent version where if you swipe, not on the
⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard, but if you swipe on the text area where you’re composing the tweet, it will move the insertion point.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, really? Yes. Oh, I didn’t know
⏹️ ▶️ John that. You should try it. And once you get used to that, you hate every other text field. This The thing that has always annoyed
⏹️ ▶️ John me it always annoys me about ios overall the entire system. I understand why they do, but
⏹️ ▶️ John any sort of gesture that requires for you to hold down for a certain period of time
⏹️ ▶️ John is sort of just is against my computer religion. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John all of the all of the interface elements that I was brought up with react as fast as the computer
⏹️ ▶️ John can react to whatever it is you’re doing right. So you click on a window close widget. The window
⏹️ ▶️ John closes. it as an animation or whatever, but the window closes right. You double click as fast
⏹️ ▶️ John as you can double click it registers double click it happens but iOS because of the limited interface had to have a
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of things where you have to tap and hold and there’s nothing you can do to make that hold faster. You don’t hold for the minimum
⏹️ ▶️ John amount of time you don’t get tap and hold and so many things on iOS require that selecting text
⏹️ ▶️ John tap hold and that hold I mean maybe it doesn’t bother most people but I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m waiting for the computer is waiting for me. I’m waiting for the computer. We’re just waiting together in a pointless way
⏹️ ▶️ John right moving the insertion point. I find really frustrating if I want to put the insertion point at the
⏹️ ▶️ John beginning of the line. I frequently tap. Oh, I’m too close to the edge of the digitizer didn’t get it tap. Oh, it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John still not going tap. If I want to move left one character, it requires a super precise tap on my giant
⏹️ ▶️ John meaty finger to move left one character, whereas in Twitter ethic swipe left
⏹️ ▶️ John the insertion point moves to left swipe left left left left three characters as fast as I can swipe right right right left left
⏹️ ▶️ John left right and so what they were showing was a different way to do the same thing to say look how fast
⏹️ ▶️ John I can move the cursor around there’s no way you could accurately move the cursor around as fast as they were demoing
⏹️ ▶️ John and yeah they’re basically using the surface like a trackpad which is different than swiping but it’s like it’s like they
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no mouse on iOS they didn’t talk about this but this is really darn close to controlling
⏹️ ▶️ John a cursor with a trackpad on an iOS device like your finger is not the pointer
⏹️ ▶️ John your finger is moving around on this surface and another thing. Let’s call it the pointer is moving around
⏹️ ▶️ John over there and I love this feature. I mean in principle, I haven’t tried it yet to see if they
⏹️ ▶️ John if the implementation is intuitive, but I love the limited version of this in Twitterific and lots of other apps that implemented this.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think Android has lots of versions of this with their various keyboards and interfaces. I hate tap
⏹️ ▶️ John and hold. I like anything lets me move the insertion point around. I’m really glad they’re doing this. I really hope
⏹️ ▶️ John they also do it on the iPhone. It wasn’t clear to me which one of these features stay on iPad and which ones come to all iOS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m pretty sure that was iPad only.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, that’s what I thought. For this release, maybe next year. Some
⏹️ ▶️ John things were and some things, like I think you’re right about the trackpad, but I think some other aspects of the new
⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard were either shown or mentioned to be available in both. Anyway, we’ll install the
⏹️ ▶️ John betas and we’ll find out, but I think there is no reason that a lot of these features should be limited to iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John because, again, the place where I use the little swipey feature the most is on an iPhone app. With the trackpad
⏹️ ▶️ John area, it might be like, well, you need to have a big area to move around or they don’t want you to put two fingers
⏹️ ▶️ John down. Wasn’t one of the gestures like a two finger thing? Like how do
⏹️ ▶️ John a place for two fingers on my iPhone thing? But I’m like, please Apple, we need, if anything you need even
⏹️ ▶️ John more sort of an easy way to move the cursor around and do text selections in a tiny little iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John screen. It’s so much harder to get your fingers in there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey small. Yeah, Mike was wrong. Then the other big feature that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they talked about for the iPad is like real honest to goodness multitasking in the sense of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey multiple things on the screen at the same time. Don’t call them Windows. Yeah, they’re not Windows. But multiple
⏹️ ▶️ Casey apps on the screen at the same time. And remind me the terminology, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was paying close attention. And because I haven’t played with this yet, it hasn’t really sank in. So there’s some
⏹️ ▶️ Casey mechanism where you can swipe in an app temporarily, but you can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey interact with it. Is that correct?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So there’s the slide in or slide over, or whatever it’s called, where it’s almost like notification center
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where it just kind of like literally like you can you can swipe from the right and you can slide
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in an iPhone width app over top of the running iPad app it’s running
⏹️ ▶️ Marco full screen or you can actually you know actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco shrink the current running app and actually have them both side by side at the same time so if you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey do that if you only need
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a slide over thing the slide over thing first of all that works on more iPads that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that works on your retina pad mini Hi, Steven. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that works on most iPads above the A5 CPU. So anything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a retina screen that isn’t an iPad 3, basically. And then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you have the iPad Air 2, only the most recent full-sized iPad, then that one is the only one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that can do actually running two apps indefinitely. Because the other mode,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco where you just slide one in temporarily, then the background app becomes unavailable until
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you slide that app out of the way. Right, right. So I think that’s mostly, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, it might be a power user price segmentation issue partly, but I think it’s probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also just RAM concerns of
⏹️ ▶️ John Is it RAM though? I was going to guess that it was CPU, because at first I was thinking RAM, but then I was thinking, it
⏹️ ▶️ John can’t be RAM, because all those same apps are expected to run on machines with one gig
⏹️ ▶️ John of RAM. That’s true. Right? so like but cpu i could think of like well
⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s not limited i don’t think like is it limited you have to do special support for for the splitter
⏹️ ▶️ John or like anybody you know is there a limit on what kind of apps you can put in a split pane i don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John think there is either way what i was thinking of is if so you wanted to split between two games and both games
⏹️ ▶️ John use every ounce of computing and gpu power the ipad air two may
⏹️ ▶️ John be the only thing that can run two apps simultaneously with acceptable performance. If
⏹️ ▶️ John one or both of those apps are very demanding
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, and this might be you know that if it is cpu relevant this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco might be why the iPad air to ship with this third core that like that they really underplayed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the launch. They didn’t even mention. I don’t think and it’s you know the iPad air to is has had
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ridiculous performance compared to other
⏹️ ▶️ John just so much faster and like and here’s the thing like you’re like well so what they sell max all the time with wimpy CPUs
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s like well if it’s slow it’s slow but there’s the expectation in an iOS device that
⏹️ ▶️ John if an app works it should always work and if it works and then you bring and
⏹️ ▶️ John then you split screen and all of a sudden get super slow and crappy you’re like oh well this stinks like
⏹️ ▶️ John like there’s the expectation on the Mac you’re used to it like the explanation on the Mac is if you’re doing a bunch of other crap
⏹️ ▶️ John one of your apps could get worse because you’re doing a bunch of other crap but on iOS it’s like well it runs or it doesn’t run It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John a game console. It either works or it doesn’t work and to have an app. It seems to work, but then
⏹️ ▶️ John you bring in like a different application in a splitter pain and run the both at the same time and then it doesn’t work as well like
⏹️ ▶️ John the frame rate suffers or the sound sounds probably not going to stutter, but like whatever the working
⏹️ ▶️ John versus non working state is, I think they’re trying to keep the expectation is look if your app runs,
⏹️ ▶️ John it will continue to run even if there’s another one running right next to it right. Yeah, it’s like an appliance like they just don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John want it to you know and any right it could just be market segmentation. They want to sell more iPad air to whatever i’m looking for
⏹️ ▶️ John a technical reason,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but right and honestly it’s probably some of both. You know they do want to sell more iPad air twos.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They do want to just sell more new iPads period, because you know one of the biggest problems they have for iPad sales
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that old iPads continue to be pretty useful. People will
⏹️ ▶️ John be using them. They don’t break
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco off right exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know a lot of people still use like iPad threes, iPad twos and they’re fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you know it you know they might get a little slower over time, but there aren’t a lot of compelling reasons
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pushing people to upgrade their iPads. And this, if you’ve been frustrated by the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco limitations of trying to get, quote, work done on the iPad,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of people are going to look at this and say, oh, well, if I get the iPad Air 2 or whatever new iPads come out this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fall, presumably, then I’ll be able to work better. That will drive sales, no question. The
⏹️ ▶️ John one thing they didn’t show that I really thought they were going to show, at least maybe they did and I blacked out during this period, you guys can tell
⏹️ ▶️ John me, they had the things side by side and they were like look and if you have a link in a notes app and safaris
⏹️ ▶️ John on the left I can tap the link and it loads right in Safari like you know you didn’t have to switch apps you have everything in context
⏹️ ▶️ John I really wanted them to grab something and drag it from one of those panes into the other I really wanted that
⏹️ ▶️ John to happen they didn’t do it right next year
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thought they did didn’t they weren’t they in the notes app and they took like a link from
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Safari maybe maybe they were that on the Mac I think that’s what I’m not sure I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John not confident that I’m that it was my iPad that’s like you’re talking about
⏹️ ▶️ John Federico Vatici, who is a big fan of using the iPad as his main computer, and I’ve always been talking
⏹️ ▶️ John about the iPad Pro that like the iPad is a better computing device for regular people because you can throw it in front of somebody and they
⏹️ ▶️ John can do useful work in it much easier than if you threw a Mac or a PC in front of them right. So this is the future of computing, but
⏹️ ▶️ John if it’s going to be the future computing it needs more capabilities and one of those capabilities is like what if I’m just assembling a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff like I’m trying to make a document at a bunch of bits and pieces it’s a pain in the butt if you have to switch the whole you know
⏹️ ▶️ John that your entire contents your skin is replaced and something else is replaced and like two things they announced today. One the iCloud
⏹️ ▶️ John drive app and two side by side things starts to give you a workflow that looks
⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit more like a I can pull from here pull from there assemble a big document made of media and a bunch of other places
⏹️ ▶️ John open this up in an editor application tweak it drag the resulting version into this like an
⏹️ ▶️ John iPad pro now has an even more reason to exist because I mean maybe you don’t get three splitter
⏹️ ▶️ John panes but the two splitters that you get can be it can be bigger and better and it can have a bigger CPU to have
⏹️ ▶️ John more stuff going on with it’s not like they’re reinventing the Mac on the iPad. They’re trying to give you
⏹️ ▶️ John the capabilities that you have on the Mac without the complexity without as much as the complexity.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and also, you know, with this better hardware keyboard support, you can do all these things and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey do it do them more efficiently with a hardware keyboard, which is also appealing. It was a bummer
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to me, though, as a pretty big fan of the of the iPad Mini, it was a bummer that as of as it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exists today, there is no iPad Mini that supports the, I think they’re calling it app pinning, which is like the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco split screen,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with split screen two apps running simultaneously set up. And I would hope and assume that this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fall when the iPad Mini, what are we up to, four, something like that? Yeah. Yeah. When the next
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad Mini comes out, that maybe it would be supported. But I also wonder if maybe they’ll say,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, the screen is too physically small to support two windows at once. So no, this is only a full-size
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad thing. And even though I only use my iPad for goofing off 99% of the time. I still love my
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad mini and I wasn’t planning to go back earlier in the conversation. I wasn’t sitting
⏹️ ▶️ Casey here now planning on upgrading to the next one until I found a reason to do so. And today I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey might have found the reason to do so. So I’m a perfect example of someone who might have just been pushed into
⏹️ ▶️ Casey upgrading who may not have otherwise.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And the picture in picture thing, I think, is another thing where it doesn’t require because you would assume the video playback,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, there’s dedicated hardware for that and everything. It could be done even by wimpy devices. Even that is like,
⏹️ ▶️ John well, what if you know I’m using the MLB app, but I want to also be like reading email or scrolling through Twitter,
⏹️ ▶️ John picture in picture, throw a little sports window up in the corner and now you can do to them that that really changes
⏹️ ▶️ John the game for whole classes of applications where you’re like people, people will go away
⏹️ ▶️ John from the iPad is that they think of it as a single tasking device, even multiple things are going on. Just the ability
⏹️ ▶️ John to have a little video thing running in the corner, it was just like a YouTube video or whatever, just to have that off
⏹️ ▶️ John in the corner and to be able to do other things really changes the game on the iPad. Now it is it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John your Mac, but it’s so it’s like going from zero to one. It’s a huge difference
⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. I couldn’t agree more because on the plane on the way here I was trying to watch an episode
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Top Gear and then I kept getting text messages from like either you guys or Aaron or something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that and in that situation because I’m in a plane I can only have one device
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the internet at a time because that’s the way plain Wi-Fi works. No, it’s not. Go
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ahead. Well, that,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco okay. You got to buy the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all-day pass from GoGo before you get on the plane, and then you can sign up all your devices. What? Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mind blown. Well, anyway, I had thought that I could only have one device online at a time, and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so what ended up happening was because I couldn’t effectively watch this video without being interrupted
⏹️ ▶️ Casey constantly, I said, you know what, screw it. I’ll take the iPad with nicer keyboard that’s easier to type on,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll take that off the internet and I’ll put my phone on the internet and I had them both sitting on my tray table like a lunatic
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because that was the most efficient way for me to do everything I wanted at once, which was watch this episode of Top Gear
⏹️ ▶️ Casey while also talking to you guys or Aaron or whomever. And if I had picture in picture,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that would have made this so much better and easier to deal with. Or if you had a
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac. If you had a Mac, you just
⏹️ ▶️ John the movie window in the background and your message window, like, you know, and you could arrange them however you wanted. picture in
⏹️ ▶️ John picture is a little mini version of that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What’s interesting about this too is like this is major features that are iPad only,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco possibly big iPad only, that the iPhones can’t do and probably won’t get if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had to take a guess. And so that I think like they really have to do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco something to try to give more people a reason to use iPads and use them more
⏹️ ▶️ Marco often over just, you know, oh I’ll just get a big phone. And you know, from Apple’s point of view. From our point
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of view, we might just say, well, just make the phones better and we’ll deal with it. But a lot of people, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re going to now be pushed into either using their existing iPads more or getting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco new iPads. And from Apple’s point of view, that makes sense as a goal,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as something they need to do. So we’ll see what happens. I think what they’re doing on the iPad is smart.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if it will turn around the kind of like plateau of usefulness
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPad seems to have hit for many people. I don’t know, but I guess time will tell.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think you really have to. I think Apple’s waiting. It was so you really had to age out the old ones like they’re just like, come on, guys, get
⏹️ ▶️ John rid of you. Stop using those things. Just they want the old devices to go away.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like I said, there’s no differentiator like they don’t. They don’t know what the product upgrade cycle
⏹️ ▶️ John is in the iPad because the product is too young. And now they’re trying to hasten the demise of these older devices
⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re holding. They’re holding back the progress of the platform as Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John to so often talk about it, that’d be the WDC. And this is saying, all right, we are
⏹️ ▶️ John moving forward. You can’t have these nice things. We really hope these nice things are compelling
⏹️ ▶️ John to customers because that’s the only way we’ll move things forward.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Although, in another very interesting major way, the new version of iOS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t age out any old devices. I know.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re still selling A5 devices.
⏹️ ▶️ John The fifth gen iPod Touch is up there on the supported thing. It’s like, are you kidding me like that’s that’s what I think about you know
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why I mean you mentioned like why can’t they bring split screen if someone if you’re making a thing and you’re like
⏹️ ▶️ John I want I want this game to work on all the things are gonna make this game work on an a5 it’s probably so hard for you to get that game
⏹️ ▶️ John to work on an a5 that they said oh by the way you get half of an a5 because they
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey get screen you’re like I will forget
⏹️ ▶️ John like I can’t support that at all like they should just get rid of the a5 class devices but
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah it’s better to use the I guess they’re trying to use the carrot here and say you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John get these fancy features on the iPad at the very least. On the phone stuff, they seem to have been limiting themselves
⏹️ ▶️ John to features that can live on A5 class devices, albeit in sort of abbreviated
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Well, but to go back just a quick step, they did mention in one of the two presentations we’ve seen today
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that coming soon you can target 64-bit devices only, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco well after the A5. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey up. Right. Or is it A6? I forget.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. It’s something that’s not an A5. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco think it’s A7.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But regardless, so you can choose to target an app only at 64-bit devices, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sort of kind of a way to get around this, oh my god, I really don’t want to support the A5 problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But either way, it was definitely some great advances for the iPad. I kind of wish
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we had a live camera on Federico while all this was happening. It was like having a live camera on you when Swift
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was announced last year.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That would have been amazing. But no, they’re both. Everything sounds really good. I’m really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John to trying them.
⏹️ ▶️ John Swift, though, we knew that this splitting the screen stuff existed in iOS 8, like we
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey talked about
⏹️ ▶️ John in the last show. So Federico couldn’t have been totally shocked that it was coming. But it was nice to, you know, it
⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t just the splitting screen. There was more stuff on top of that and the keyboard changes and, you know, so lots of iPad love this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Speaking of Swift, Swift 2.0 is a thing. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the most fascinating and interesting thing to me about Swift 2.0 is that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it not only is Swift 2.0 going to be open-sourced later this year, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a the reaction to that from the audience was stunningly enthusiastic.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not that I expected people to be like, oh, but people were like really amped up about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, like surprisingly amped up about it. I don’t know, what did you guys think?
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that makes sense because I think as developers, developers in the modern age know that if you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John going to make a language, that language is always going to suck at some degree
⏹️ ▶️ John if it’s proprietary, right? If it’s a single company language, like everyone,
⏹️ ▶️ John developers know you need to have an ecosystem and the best for languages, especially like we’re front APIs,
⏹️ ▶️ John frameworks, wherever. But for languages, this is just kind of accepted that if your language is going to be worth a damn
⏹️ ▶️ John long term, it needs to not be your own little private toy. You need to open it up
⏹️ ▶️ John and it needs to be available to everyone. It needs to not just be an Apple specific thing. Having more
⏹️ ▶️ John people using your language benefits the language. Apple can still steer the ship and be in charge of it
⏹️ ▶️ John because they write the most code and all the other stuff. But, you know, WebKit is a great example. And that’s not even a
⏹️ ▶️ John language or programming languages. Programmers feel really nervous about the idea that, you know, even though Objective C is
⏹️ ▶️ John like, well, is that open kind of sort of, but Apple’s been advancing and it makes
⏹️ ▶️ John everyone feel better in the same way that I think the core that having Darwin be open source, which people
⏹️ ▶️ John forget about now and seems not important. Like those are those are developer
⏹️ ▶️ John comfort factors that parts of the core part of the US is open source was a big comfort factor
⏹️ ▶️ John when I was 10 was new and Swift doing open source now I think makes people feel a lot better about Swift.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So it is important to clarify, though, what part is open source?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s the other thing I was going to bring up. It’s funny you say that because they said they’re open sourcing the language, but they also said they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey open, open sourcing some of the framework.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Well, they said standard library. What do you mean by standard library? The things
⏹️ ▶️ John where like int and array are
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco defined. Like that’s the standard library. Like the Swift string and array classes. There is no
⏹️ ▶️ John Swift without the standard library. So them saying we’re open sourcing Swift and the standard library, that’s just like saying Swift.
⏹️ ▶️ John Other frameworks? I mean, some parts of Core Foundation already are open source, but that’s not Swift. But what else
⏹️ ▶️ John is there to Swift? Are there any Swift-only frameworks? I don’t know at this point. I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so. Not from Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John So all there is is the language and the standard library. and then calling into a bunch of Objective-C
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of which are closed source and will probably remain that way.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right. So I think it’s the same deal with Darwin. Like the language, the compiler was already
⏹️ ▶️ John open source. The language, the standard library, having the Linux port is basically saying, you want to write
⏹️ ▶️ John a program in Linux? You want to use Swift to do it? Go ahead. Oh, but wait, I can’t call into
⏹️ ▶️ John NSURL session. Of course you can’t. That’s not on Linux. And if they make a
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of frameworks only available to Swift. There’ll be Apple frameworks that are closed source, just like the
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple closed source frameworks. But you know, core foundation is the best example because most of it is closed, but there is a version of this
⏹️ ▶️ John CF light or whatever that’s part of Darwin on the same thing. The rest of us 10, a lot of us 10
⏹️ ▶️ John and the core OS and everything are open, but then some parts of it are proprietary, like the graphics drivers or whatever that
⏹️ ▶️ John have proprietary stuff from envy and A. T. I. Um, so I think this is exactly as
⏹️ ▶️ John open source as everyone was asking for swift to be. And that’s that’s why everyone applauded. They’re like, you know, because Apple has been
⏹️ ▶️ John so clearly saying, we are staking the future of our platform on this language. And it just makes everyone feel so much better to have it open.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Now, do you reckon that we are soon to find Swift taking over
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Node or the JavaScript framework du jour of the minute, and that suddenly everything server-side
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going to be Swiftified?
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that’s one of the things people talk about. Oh, you know, it could be Apple’s Dart. Their Safari
⏹️ ▶️ John could run Swift native and translate it to JavaScript. any excuse to try to get rid of JavaScript.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know, like, why can we use Swift instead? Or I can use Swift on the client side and the server side
⏹️ ▶️ John and the client side would be a browser or be a native app and you could run Swift on the server like and I got
⏹️ ▶️ John shared libraries between them. We’re a long way from that. That’s what opening open sourcing it allows to happen. If it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John if it’s worth a damn as a server side language, some person on Linux will try to use it and we’ll see like maybe we’ll make libraries for
⏹️ ▶️ John it. And those libraries, you know, that’s the whole thing. This opens up if you want to make a library to make server
⏹️ ▶️ John side web applications with Swift. You could do that now because you wouldn’t be like, well, it’s great. You just got to use Max as
⏹️ ▶️ John your server. It’s like that’s not going to happen right now that it is an open language. People can try anything and everything with Swift
⏹️ ▶️ John and the community will of programmers will find out what Swift is good for and what Swift is not good for.
⏹️ ▶️ John And if a bunch of people made like a big library like you know some sort of server side
⏹️ ▶️ John framework for writing web apps and it was awesome, it would live and die on its own merits. But it is no longer limited
⏹️ ▶️ John by the fact that Swift is confined to the Apple world.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I do think though that web programmers who are hoping to use us as a server-side language, which I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco would love to look into that honestly, like that would give me a lot more reason to learn Swift if I could use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it in both places. But I think people like me are gonna be disappointed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you know if we try if we think that this is gonna enable us to make web apps in Swift like you know this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fall or tomorrow or whatever and we try it and it turns out that you know the lack of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of the frameworks.
⏹️ ▶️ John because you would use you would use all the sort of the frameworks for dealing with URLs and making web requests
⏹️ ▶️ John and like it’s like oh well that’s not there well you’re like well well then what do I get like what could you share if you wanted to say
⏹️ ▶️ John I want to have a bunch of code that I share between my web app and my iOS app and you think
⏹️ ▶️ John well is there any part of your iOS app that doesn’t call any Cocoa api’s that are apples probably not unless
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re doing like a lot of math or unless you’ve implemented your entire data storage
⏹️ ▶️ Marco layer yourself you know and not using most of the foundation collection classes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like all the stuff that that that either
⏹️ ▶️ John can use all the you know the arrays and dictionaries and stuff that are native to Swift
⏹️ ▶️ John and that are bridged to the other stuff but it’s yeah it’s not like this is this just step two in a long
⏹️ ▶️ John potential road to Swift being more useful than it currently is but this is an essential
⏹️ ▶️ John first step to say it’s open now people can see what the hell it’s good for and
⏹️ ▶️ John can submit bug fixes and can see the source to try to debug their own problems because it is a young language
⏹️ ▶️ John and there are gonna be weird things and it’s great when you have the source to figure out what the hell is going on under the covers
⏹️ ▶️ John and you know who knows how many submissions they’ll get maybe maybe Google will start using it and then make their own
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco give it a different name. I don’t see that happen. I mean
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah if they did start using it they would definitely fork it within a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John year. It’s like the WebKit example. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John open and then they kind of work together and it was like you know what we can’t even work together on this so
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey mind. I don’t see this
⏹️ ▶️ John happening because Swift is clearly Apple’s baby but yeah this is This is more of a feel-good moment
⏹️ ▶️ John and an opening of many doors. And we don’t know how many of those doors will just lead to blind alleys
⏹️ ▶️ John or bottomless pits. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey true. Now, but anything else on iOS 9 that’s worth discussing at this moment? I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. Well, I think after the break we should talk about notes and news.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh, you’re right. Yep. Sorry. I forgot about that. But first
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Excellent. So now, Marko, you reminded me we should probably talk about news.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. So first of all, I honestly, I’m looking forward to the Notes app. I think it looks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty nice. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I’m not a heavy Notes user. And part of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is because I’ve never liked any of the solutions that go, that can be sync between
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac and iOS and I do so much work on the Mac that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I would love to use Vesper by our friend John Gruber but I I’ve just never gotten into
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it because it did they don’t have a Mac version yet and and what I see from the new notes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco app looks pretty compelling it looks really interesting because what they’ve done with it is they’ve made it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this this complete it looks you know it’s a complete rich text editor it’s almost like a word processor but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know, modern. And not made for print. It has all the rich formatting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco styles you can apply to things. It supports inline images, inline media. They had this cool thing where
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can convert a list of lines into a checklist and then check them off. It has this embedded checklist functionality.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco A lot of these things that we see from apps like, oh man, what’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Jesse Grosjean’s app that it’s like a combination of task paper and something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that… I’ve got nothing. I have to look it up. We’ll put in the show notes if we can find it, but like there’s there are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so many like so much rich functionality that’s that’s in this app that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that appears to be there on iOS and on Mac and it all sinks like there were there were rumors of this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you know that notes used to be synced via iMap with your mail account, which was a terrible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea that never work.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the thing I tweeted. Is this still iMap background? I think it might be. I think it still is because
⏹️ ▶️ John on I think on my wife’s computer, she doesn’t use Apple’s mail stuff and I think every time I try to enable
⏹️ ▶️ John notes, it’s like, oh, you need an email address.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s the way it is today and at one point they flashed up a slide. It might have been this afternoon
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where it was all the bits and pieces of iCloud and notes was there and what I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not sure is like if it’s iMap, does that classify as still being
⏹️ ▶️ John like the thing the fact that it’s iMap has two bad things. One, I map implementations are weird and flaky and
⏹️ ▶️ John two, you have this weird dependency where you can’t use notes in a synced manner
⏹️ ▶️ John unless you have an email account. It’s like, how are those two things related anyway? And you’d have to know. Well, it’s using
⏹️ ▶️ John IMAP as a back end, which is gross and has always bothered me. But the reason I use notes is exactly what Marco said, because there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a Mac app and an iOS app and I use it in both places. And so I use notes. I just read my
⏹️ ▶️ John toaster notes off of the notes app. I really do edit those notes
⏹️ ▶️ John in two places. I start entering them when I’m on my iPod. I fix them up a little bit when I’m on my computer.
⏹️ ▶️ John The thing that annoys me about notes so that they didn’t I like the fact that has all these new features, but they didn’t demo
⏹️ ▶️ John the one feature I really wanted. And the thing that always drives me nuts when I’m trying to do any side of kind of notes in iOS is I find
⏹️ ▶️ John myself looking in vain for the tab key on the iOS keyboard
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey because I want to I want an
⏹️ ▶️ John outline view. I want to
⏹️ ▶️ John know, and they did show bulleted lists and they showed Rick’s text and they showed headings. did not show outlines and I
⏹️ ▶️ John find a lot of the notes I make are outlining and like in the in text
⏹️ ▶️ John edit it has I think this is held over from the next days if people don’t know and I think I mentioned this a few times if you are in text edit
⏹️ ▶️ John on the Mac and you hit option tab it suddenly goes into this weird pseudo outlining indented
⏹️ ▶️ John rich text mode thing that I use a lot it’s not great a real outlining app like on the outline or something would
⏹️ ▶️ John be way better but I want something that’s sort of available everywhere
⏹️ ▶️ John supported by the system. So there’s still stuff for notes to add in the next version,
⏹️ ▶️ John but I’m happy for a bunch of additional features. And I’ll be super happy if this gets off the iMap back
⏹️ ▶️ John end and goes on to the new CloudKit back end for real, like the native CloudKit document
⏹️ ▶️ John type stuff instead of iMap because that just seems silly to me. And
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe it’s irrational that I don’t trust it as much, but I just don’t. And I’ve had many cases in notes where notes suddenly
⏹️ ▶️ John get duplicated and I have to delete the duplicates and silly stuff like that and I’m hoping it will be better with a proper back end.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah and I have to imagine like I don’t think they would have done this this big enhancement which you know this might have been a total
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rewrite using like using like a cloud kit back end. I don’t think they would have done that if they were
⏹️ ▶️ Marco still using IMAP and if they ever plan to move it off IMAP like they would have waited and done it at the same time. I
⏹️ ▶️ John mean it’s just a bag of bytes like you could put whatever you want in IMAP. I get scared and thinking like when you select all this stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John and it makes it into a bullet list like they’re using sort of a weird bastardized markdown language behind the scenes
⏹️ ▶️ John that it really just is a big giant text. That’s all rtf is anyway, but it’s like like there’s a line between
⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of weird things that humans were never supposed to see that make up this file format
⏹️ ▶️ John and something like markdown where it’s like we just picked it. You know it’s supposed to be readable as plain text
⏹️ ▶️ John and we just we just made up our own plain text thing to mean a check marks that’s checked in a check
⏹️ ▶️ John mark that’s not checked out. I don’t know. I’m hoping the back end is better on this one, but
⏹️ ▶️ John nothing they showed me definitively says it must be they could pull all this off on top of iMap with
⏹️ ▶️ John a weird format under the covers. I just hope they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not. Yeah, I’m guessing it’s like HTML and you know something like that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John or maybe it is
⏹️ ▶️ John RTF is not a great format either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Display PostScript. We’ll see. Oh God. All right, so I think we got to talk about this news
⏹️ ▶️ Marco app. Right. Apple Instant Articles. Yeah, that’s basic. I mean, it looks like it’s a lot like or you know Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John Instant Articles with no visible means of support. Meaning I’m pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John sure they did not mention a single time ads, advertisers or anything like that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also on the page, it says you can use I add. So I’m not entirely sure the details. We haven’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had time to look into the details, but it looks like their solution is basically if you want to monetize
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this, you could use our ad system,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the one that everyone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John likes setting the world on fire.
⏹️ ▶️ John We don’t know what their solution is, but we do know how they presented it and they presented it entirely
⏹️ ▶️ John as an end user benefit. We talked about the Facebook instant articles being presented. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John here’s the end user benefit instant. You don’t have to wait for stuff to load and then, but they also said and here’s the publisher
⏹️ ▶️ John benefit will give you all your ad money. You’ll get lots of demographics, but you got lots of reach, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
⏹️ ▶️ John blah, lots of social sharing. They could start here instead of you know, like they gave two halves of that apple
⏹️ ▶️ John only gave the consumer half. This is a cool way for you to read news. Look at this nice
⏹️ ▶️ John app. Look at these beautiful articles. Isn’t it nice a little bit? They said look at these rich layouts like that could be
⏹️ ▶️ John pitch towards the publishers a a little bit. Hey, like this looks like the New York Times. Don’t get nervous. New York Times your stuff will still
⏹️ ▶️ John look like the New York Times, but it was still, I think mostly entirely towards the customer of saying
⏹️ ▶️ John these things. These publications look the way you expect them to look. They still have personality. You can find them all in one place
⏹️ ▶️ John and I’m pretty sure from memory that all the articles they scrolled through did not have a single
⏹️ ▶️ John ad of them and it looks so alien because we’re so used to scrolling through mobile web pages with a million ads and like in
⏹️ ▶️ John the middle of an article. It’s a gigantic square the size of your entire screen advertising something and
⏹️ ▶️ John adblock is not as pervasive on iOS let’s say as it is on the desktop I don’t maybe Chrome has some options for
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think there’s anything you can do in Safari except for maybe like DNS blocking at your router to kill ads and stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John it just looks so weird to be reading all these news sites without an ad in sight and
⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m left to wonder you know I like the consumer story sort of but what is
⏹️ ▶️ John the publisher story why why would wired in the New York Times and Rolling Stone or whoever else they
⏹️ ▶️ John put in there. Why would they want their things to be in news if you aren’t going to their websites
⏹️ ▶️ John and they can’t show you any ads and the the I had thing like is that the answer is that like you have to use I
⏹️ ▶️ John add. Do you get to run your own ads? I don’t know as as someone snarkily tweeted. I think it was
⏹️ ▶️ John Brianna snarkily tweeted worried about how this is going to affect the
⏹️ ▶️ John the application that Apple previously had in the space newsstand, which is really burning up the charts
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it’s not you know
⏹️ ▶️ John newsstand. I’m not gonna say newsstand has been a failure, but it certainly has not been the success that Apple wanted it to be. And
⏹️ ▶️ John here they are taking another run at the same problem. I’m not sure if they’ve nailed it on the second try either.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the I’ve been looking through the fact and it is it is very it’s interesting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s kind of vague on some pretty important points. So first of all, this is entirely based on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco RSS for now and then they say there’s an Apple News format that’s coming soon
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the details of such format are not available yet and the way this works is it appears
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they they will add RSS feeds for a lot of things by themselves and you can
⏹️ ▶️ Marco opt out of that but then you can also sign up with an account to to have like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a management interface to submit your own RSS feeds for your own sites. So God knows
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how that’s working out. But and then there’s a submission status.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So and then there’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey there’s some things
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about how can I monetize and the answer is you can monetize with iAd and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can say and it says you can sell ads that I guess iAd is just then serving
⏹️ ▶️ Marco inventory you’ve entered. So if you enter ads into iAd that you have sold you keep all the revenue.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Otherwise if If they sell the ad, if you’re showing their inventory that they sold, you get 70%.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s interesting. And there’s a section of what’s required,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the requirement is basically it has to be an RSS feed. And then what’s recommended. And that says,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco no read more links, no advertising that’s outside of iAds, stuff like that. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this will be interesting. I see that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the story for publishers is going to really depend on if anybody actually uses this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah because that’s a thing with
⏹️ ▶️ John saving a newsstand like
⏹️ ▶️ John good idea, but if people just file that thing away and never look at it not so good idea anymore
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right like you know with with Facebook the reason why Facebook is able to do something crazy like in some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco articles is because they just have a ton of people browsing in Facebook. They can throw around
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a ridiculous amount of traffic and increasingly for for publications, they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of have to be in newsstand or I mean in it they have to be visible in Facebook somehow whether it’s through
⏹️ ▶️ Marco links or in articles like they they depend on Facebook’s traffic to survive or to stay
⏹️ ▶️ Marco healthy and so you know Apple with a brand new app that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know on day one certainly a lot of people are gonna use it just because it’s a new Apple app and it’s built into the OS
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever but it’s not gonna be the size of Facebook traffic for for browsing stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the web. I do wonder, you know, is this going to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco get big enough to to make it worth the publishers participating and making things really fancy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco besides just the dumb RSS feed dumps that the publishers eventually realize,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh crap, we forgot to monetize our feeds and then they just stop supporting RSS.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like this could go very badly. So you know it’s worth considering what is the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco endgame here? First of all, this is very much not an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple-like thing to attempt. If you would have said,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco two of the big tech companies are going to do this during a three-month period, which two is it going to be?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think you would have guessed Apple to be one of them. I think you probably guessed Facebook and Google. To have this be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple is kind of weird.
⏹️ ▶️ John O’Reilly I think the way they pitched it actually makes sense in terms of what the companies have, like you
⏹️ ▶️ John just said. So Facebook pitched way more towards the publishers because they already got the users
⏹️ ▶️ John right there. Don’t have to to pitch that they did do the hey,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s great. You don’t wait for loading. They don’t have to pitch to the customers too much because other customers people are already using Facebook and
⏹️ ▶️ John Facebook controls what they see. Facebook controls the feed in a in a way that they with power
⏹️ ▶️ John that they have exerted time and again at this point that people just accept that Facebook has a tremendous amount of control
⏹️ ▶️ John of what they see in Facebook that they are not entirely in control, so they pitch to the publishers. Apple is pitching to the
⏹️ ▶️ John users because there are far fewer publishers, and if the users are there, I think Apple feels like
⏹️ ▶️ John they can get the publishers on board, especially they could differentiate themselves from Facebook or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John In some way, they need to pitch to the users because it’s this. All this is pointless. If like you said, if people
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t use the news app, so they’re entirely going to the customers and saying you are the ones that we need that we don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John have. If we can get you on board, it will be easy to explain to the New York Times and Vogue magazine or
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. Why you should be in our thing, even just if you’re going to say do it as a hedge against
⏹️ ▶️ John giving all your content to Facebook and letting them control your destiny
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what’s interesting to like they they are saying this is the way forward so much that people on Twitter were just tell me they have actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco killed newsstand newsstand and ios9 here we’ll
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John say it will not be mourned
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Nate Peel a username emulat on Twitter he says that when he installed ios9 a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco newsstand was converted into a folder, which is honestly, that’s great. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back when I was a newsstand publisher, I was saying they should do this. And yeah, this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. This is perfect for everybody. For users who hated it, who never wanted to see it, and had to bury
⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhere. And for the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John newsstand developers. And it was
⏹️ ▶️ John worse for the people who used it all the time, because everything was always two levels down.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, and it was worse for the publishers, because their app couldn’t be on the home screen. It couldn’t be in the dock. It was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also buried. Like it really just didn’t work out at all for anybody for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco any side, even for Apple because then nobody wanted to use it and yeah it’s just bad all around.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So and this is also interesting that it doesn’t seem like there’s any kind of payment
⏹️ ▶️ Marco method built into this. It’s only ad based which is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey probably… Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco subscribing or anything. Yeah like I mean that’s probably for the best because it does seem like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the web that just works a lot better and is by far the dominant way to monetize web content. It
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is interesting that like they are kind of saying all right well newsstand is done and if you want to you know if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want to keep having apps that that support payments in the app and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that purchase subscriptions like those all still exist and you can do them in an app separately from this but if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want to be in this news app in this ecosystem it sure looks like it your stuff has to be free on the web this
⏹️ ▶️ John is also interesting compared to something we forgot to mention like so this is like well newsstand didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John work out let’s take a second run at this problem Whereas, passbook turning into Apple wallet is
⏹️ ▶️ John not like old passbook didn’t work out. Let’s take another run at it with Apple wallet. Apple wallet is
⏹️ ▶️ John what passbook was always supposed to be like. It’s the same tech underlying with a little HTML things that make the little cards and
⏹️ ▶️ John everything. But when passbook was launched, they didn’t have a financial component to it. So it makes me they could go two ways. One
⏹️ ▶️ John is they wanted it to be this passbook thing and it turns out payments fit right into that and payments
⏹️ ▶️ John are more important. The second is they always wanted to be Apple wallet, but you can’t launch a thing called wallet with no money inside.
⏹️ ▶️ John If it just if it just has boarding passes like the entire passbook project, everything they did
⏹️ ▶️ John is one hundred percent used in apple wallet like all the tech that they worked on for all the like. How do you
⏹️ ▶️ John make a passbook? How does it get in there? What is it made out of? How does it update itself? You know all that
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff for for all your boarding passes and event tickets and stuff that’s all used in apple wallet. It’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John now that we have apple pay now sort of reveals its its final form like it was always Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John wallet. All right, so Passbook has become the beautiful butterfly of Apple wallet and newsstand is just
⏹️ ▶️ John getting stomped on and there’s a new thing with news in the name that is, as far as I can tell, unrelated
⏹️ ▶️ John to newsstand in every way, and we’ll see if they got it right at that time.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, what’s weird to me about news is that I feel like it’s solving a problem that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey nobody really had because I mean granted, maybe you couldn’t have solved this problem
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with solely Safari and the things that are baked into iOS. But, you know, Flipboard is really good.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t think that the world was yearning for a Flipboard replacement.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it is. They weren’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yearning for a reading list either.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, true. And so I’m surprised that this is somewhere where they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey seem to have put a considerable amount of effort. And I’ll certainly try it once
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I move to iOS 9, which, by the Pro tip, if you learn anything from us, do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not put on beta 1. Just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco don’t. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just skip beta 1. Just wait a couple weeks for beta 2 to come
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the earliest. And if you’re wise, you’re going to wait until like July
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco before you start doing anything.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, generally, the pro move is don’t install anything before beta 3. Usually by then, they’ve worked out most
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the major problems that would prevent you from being able to use it on your day-to-day phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The wisest move is just never to install the beta. But if if you insist, which most of you will, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait till beta 2 or 3. Unless
⏹️ ▶️ John you’re a developer. Obviously, if you have a spare phone, put whatever you want on there. What we’re talking about is don’t put it on your main phone
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because you will just host your main phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Especially while traveling at WPC. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey because didn’t you and I both put on 5 or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was that had a notification
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco center and both of us
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it immediately after we… John Cooper will never let me forget that. I did the same thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was also an idiot and did the exact same thing. Oh, terrible decision. Absolutely terrible decision. All right, anything else
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on iOS or can we talk watchOS?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s time to go to the watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so we are getting third party complications. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco am very happy.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That makes me super happy. I’m really excited about this. I think if developers can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey keep themselves in check and actually do this tastefully, I think it can be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey phenomenal. The problem is I’m not terribly convinced that we’ll be able
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John to do it tastefully. As
⏹️ ▶️ John soon as they mentioned, like they were talking about that we’ll get the time travel feature, like that, you know, what if you have something you don’t know when it updates?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like the score in a game. Like it’s not like the weather where you can update it every hour. or the score in the game updates. You don’t know when it’s going to
⏹️ ▶️ John update, but you want to know as soon as someone scores a goal where you can do a push notification, a priority push notification from your server
⏹️ ▶️ John that goes through the phone. And I immediately thought video complications push
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it, push a frame of video 24 times a
⏹️ ▶️ John second push, push, push, push. I’m going to look up a thing. It’ll be a tiny little video in the
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco corner here. That’s the kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of abuse you’re talking about, I
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco think, is not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco being tasteful and we’ve seen that Apple is seemingly either unwilling
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or unable or both to police
⏹️ ▶️ Marco notification abuse. A video wouldn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John work. Obviously, it was a
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco joke, but yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John people can two things here one and we’ll get to this with the apps in a
⏹️ ▶️ John bit. You could really hose someone’s watch like I didn’t see a maybe we’ll go to the sessions later and we’ll learn
⏹️ ▶️ John what all the crazy limits are, but so what are you saying? I can send a push notification whenever I want
⏹️ ▶️ John to update a complication. You could keep that poor watch like it’s trying to go to sleep. It’s trying to be like and
⏹️ ▶️ John you know I’m not doing anything mode and it keeps getting these notifications like you now have
⏹️ ▶️ John the power, I think, to basically make a badly behaved app that drains someone’s watch battery way
⏹️ ▶️ John more than you know this. We’re in the glory days of the watch now where everyone says it lasts all day and there’s no problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John But now you just let random developers do stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey especially if you have like
⏹️ ▶️ John apps installed by default. Is that the default on the thing? Like I think it is. Yeah, that’s probably a bad default
⏹️ ▶️ John because you’ll install some credit game on your iOS device. Play it once, not
⏹️ ▶️ John like it, forget about it, maybe you didn’t delete it and not know that it put some watch kit thing. I guess
⏹️ ▶️ John if you don’t make the complication show, it’s not that bad. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m kind of fearful of the things that native watch apps and complications can do
⏹️ ▶️ John that people will be unaware of. Like they’ll be able to connect up like, I put this complication in because it’s neat, but this complication
⏹️ ▶️ John is actually updating once every 30 seconds all day.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’ll be no good. The one thing I’m curious to hear about later in the week is how does it work for the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey different sized complications? You know, the modular faces, that’s what I’m thinking of, right? That
⏹️ ▶️ Casey has no analog anything on it. Some of those complications are physically, or they take
⏹️ ▶️ Casey up quite a bit of real estate, like the main one in the center of the watch face. And yet they
⏹️ ▶️ Casey also showed, so they showed some of those, and they also showed third-party complications, like there was a Volkswagen, like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey how charged is your Volkswagen? And it was basically like a little circle, kind
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like the activity rings that went around the VW logo. And that’s one of those little teeny tiny complications.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s kind of square shaped. I’m curious to see how that works. You know, do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you do you spend I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John presume like size classes? Yeah, maybe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t forget, you also have 38 and 42 millimeter. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey another good
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco point. I hadn’t considered that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then you have things like you’re probably I mean, we haven’t looked at the API yet, but you’re probably given like an accent color
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you have to use and stuff like that. This
⏹️ ▶️ John is a third party complications are technically probably one of the easiest thing they can do because it
⏹️ ▶️ John is so incredibly constrained. Yeah, the number of things you could do there. I don’t think you have, you know, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, to have core graphics and you just draw whatever the hell you want there. Maybe you’re going to be making up a ping
⏹️ ▶️ John and passing it over. Maybe you have some simple
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco time. Maybe it’s just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a mask that you pass and it treats it like a mask. Yeah, I don’t know, but
⏹️ ▶️ John but anyway, it’s it’s it is a huge bang for your buck because it is the thing that you see when you
⏹️ ▶️ John raise your wrist and lots of things you can imagine could be super useful, even if just something as simple as
⏹️ ▶️ John a sports sportscore. Having a sportscore is a complication on your watch or something that mechanical watches could
⏹️ ▶️ John never dream of. Yep. This is the real differentiator. Like, yeah, I can see what day of the week it is. I can see the
⏹️ ▶️ John face of the moon. I can see all this thing. I can see a live sportscore. Now, we’re, you know, forget about physical watches. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John just stomping in their faces.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Yep. Yep. And then this brings us to, what is it? Time machine? Time travel? What do they call it? Not
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John machine. Time travel. I said there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a missed opportunity.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey They could have called it time machine. Yep. So, time travel. And what that allows you to do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, as at your watch face, you can spin the digital crown and you can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey move forward or back in time to see what your complications either did or would reflect
⏹️ ▶️ Casey at that point in time, which I think is absolutely fascinating and reminds me of the Pebble Time,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that correct? Yeah. Which works in a vaguely similar way where
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the idea behind that is everything you look at on the main interface is kind of like a timeline.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this isn’t exactly the same, but very similar. And I really dig the idea of, like we were talking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about weather earlier, John had brought up weather as a complication, being able to see, well, at five o’clock,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey what’s the weather going to be like? And at the very least, you can get numerals for the temperature, or perhaps you can get
⏹️ ▶️ Casey an icon that’ll tell you whether or not it’ll be overcast. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so you can spin the crown and kind of see how things are going. Or you can see, they actually used an example
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the second session of, well, how did this team that I—this soccer team that I loved, how did
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they lose? Do they lose in the last second or do they lose by not scoring in the last 45 minutes? And you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey could scroll back on the Digital Crown and see, oh, well, they had lost in the last second, I think was the example.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I am absolutely fascinated by this. I had written a blog post a while ago, and I’m not the only one. I think Marco had done the same.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey A few people have been saying, you know, third-party complications would be really awesome. And I think if
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tastefully done—and that’s the key—if tastefully done, I can see how this would be absolutely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey awesome to have. And just like John had said earlier, you know, when all you’re doing is flicking up your wrist
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to look at the face of your watch and you can instantly see some piece of information,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey be it a sports score or the weather or what have you, that is absolutely appealing to me. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey appealing enough that I would even consider going to the modular watch face, which I freaking hate.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco not that appealing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So to get that amount of information density would be fantastic. And by the way, quick aside, they’re
⏹️ ▶️ Casey also supporting a picture as a watch face, which… Or an album. Or an album, yes, actually,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey excellent point, or an album, which I think is awesome because not only would I love to have a picture of Aaron and Declan
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as my watch face, but we actually have a shared photo stream that will post pictures
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of Declan for family and friends to see, and having my watch face cycle through those pictures sounds awesome.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The only problem, though, which Marco pointed out to me as we’re sitting in the keynote, is well,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we don’t see any complications on that right now and there may not be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco any complications on that. It sure
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John looks like there’s not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to be. I think the complication is where do you put the time so it’s legible in the picture? And if
⏹️ ▶️ John bunch of complications now, like do they have to, you could pick a color that looks okay, but in different sections of the picture
⏹️ ▶️ John have a different color, it’s actually a pretty hard problem with arbitrary pictures. If you put a bunch of complications, it’ll just look all splotchy.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they don’t even have complications on the ones they control that are like that, which
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John are like the jellyfish
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the butterflies and everything. And I mean, there’s only, there’s what, six or seven watch faces only three of them support complications
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah and and that’s so on one hand like it’s interesting like you know they do a new
⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch face but doesn’t support this though okay I think there’s a lot that they could do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make the watch faces and the complications better but third party complications that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a major step in the right direction like that’s a huge jump that I was not expecting to have yet
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John oh I’m third
⏹️ ▶️ Marco party watch faces next year right
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if they don’t I don’t have to love her
⏹️ ▶️ John do third party watch faces like that. I think it’s time will come
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like third party lock screens on the phone. Like I don’t think that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John but this like once you have complicated third party complications like well, I get to put stuff in little places. Why can’t you
⏹️ ▶️ John even if the third party watch faces only could choose complications that were of the preset sizes, which would probably be the
⏹️ ▶️ John case, it would still be even if you just rearrange modular to put you know stuff in different like
⏹️ ▶️ John not this year, but you know anyway like a lot of things are telegraphed like I think the the time time travel feature
⏹️ ▶️ John was telegraphed by the fact that on my watch face, by the way, I have an apple watch now in case you’re wondering
⏹️ ▶️ John in there yeah on my watch face when I turn the when I turn the digital crown nothing happens
⏹️ ▶️ John here how how in the world could you have this watch like it’s major ui features like oh look this
⏹️ ▶️ John digital crown it’s great and you just turn it and nothing happened. Then what do you expect to happen? I expect I guess the hands
⏹️ ▶️ John on the watch to turn ah but on solar face it something does happen. What happens basically time travel
⏹️ ▶️ John right, but there’s no complication so that they could do that. They’re like you can move the sun on the little solar phrase and stuff like that. So
⏹️ ▶️ John time travel was you know, how could Apple ship a watch returning the crown does nothing when you’re on the watch race?
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, they didn’t just wasn’t ready yet. It’s time travel. It’s cool. It does exactly what you would expect it to do intuitively
⏹️ ▶️ John and that it already did on the solar face. So even though they’re calling this watch OS two, even though there was never
⏹️ ▶️ John a watch OS one because it didn’t have a name with those all low case watch or whatever this seems like
⏹️ ▶️ John watch OS one point. Oh and what we’re all using now is like the beta
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like like I think okay, we got to solve one point. Oh it’s fine, but yeah this this feels like one point one. You know the first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco update I mean iOS had a one point one that of things like like the GPS triangulation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John simulation and then to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah two point. Oh was apps yeah, but so maybe that’s why the what they were thinking, but it is kind of weird to have 2.0 so soon that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has seemingly very few user-facing enhancements besides the third party stuff, which is big,
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. They were super proud of themselves. They’re like, this is only six weeks after the launch of one, but it’s like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, things come out when, you know, when, whenever they’re done. So. Yep.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And we’re getting native applications on the watch now. It seems like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re intending to push developers to abandon WatchKit
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as we know it today and move towards native. Was that the impression that you guys got as well?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the way they’re doing it is interesting. So I was assuming when we heard that they were going to be doing native SDK,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was assuming all this time that like the WatchKit API that we had now, which does
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know, kind of like the remote control of the interface on the watch, I was assuming that that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was just a temporary thing that was basically a dead end. And as soon as we got native apps
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we we would be writing directly to like UIKit. And what we have instead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is they’re taking WatchKit, which WatchKit extensions run on the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone today. Right, right. They’re now just letting you move them so that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they run on the watch. But you’re still writing WatchKit, and you’re still writing WatchKit
⏹️ ▶️ Marco code, you’re still writing WatchKit UI, and you still have many of the WatchKit limitations,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but now they’ve added a bunch of new things you can now call from WatchKit,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and because it is running on the watch instead of on the phone, it becomes more useful in a lot of ways, and of course, better in a lot of ways.
⏹️ ▶️ John are faceless things, right? Like you have lots
⏹️ ▶️ John APIs that you can get at that do things, but not UI, not UIKit.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not like, oh, I’m just gonna make this new layout and have this controller and push these things under it. No, that’s not there. But if you
⏹️ ▶️ John want to use all sorts of networking stuff, because now you can do Wi-Fi directly from the watch, or audio
⏹️ ▶️ John or video processing and stuff like that, you can do that. but it seems like the viewport through
⏹️ ▶️ John which you see, the customer sees you and you interact is still WatchKitty.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and I haven’t looked at the APIs yet to know for sure, but it sure looks like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like we’re not using UI views and UI buttons here. We don’t seem to have like total
⏹️ ▶️ Marco free form layout control. I think we’re still using the WatchKit layout methods, which are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more limited than UIKit. And we don’t seem to have any kind of access
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to things like animation of the UI elements, which seems like a pretty big thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you get that when you write a full-on native app. They’d mentioned that you- Do you? Yeah, I could swear.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m losing my confidence,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could swear they mentioned that you can do some animations on the watch in native watch apps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so I’ll have to look at it to see.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey We’ll go to the sessions. I bet
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John they’ll tell us. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably. Well, yeah, those of us with tickets, John, ding.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So anyway, yeah, so you know I think it is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is in some ways you know simpler and more logical than I was predicting because I was I was thinking throw
⏹️ ▶️ Marco throw out watch get started over again but it also is you know and and that’s that’s a plus and a minus like because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they basically just moved watch it onto the watch and expanded it we can use our existing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco knowledge we can use a lot of our existing code and so it is less of a jump and we don’t have to throw away everything we wrote
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know a few months ago necessarily but also it is gonna be more limited
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like a lot of the frameworks are more limited like I already know I can’t do my audio engine I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do smart speed on the watch I can’t do voice boost like there there is audio playback
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you have to use their custom new player thing which is very limited and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know and there’s gonna be these limits all over the all over the OS as you look at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it. Aren’t you
⏹️ ▶️ John talking about like pre-rendering the smart speed though
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah it’s something I could do we’ll see if I if that ends up being good enough to actually do because like you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean another big thing that that they they have some sessions on I haven’t looked at documentation yet but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know there’s there of course is the issue of of communicating between the extension
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know between the watch app and the iPhone app and data sharing and you know what happens when
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the phone goes away and what what data do you have like it can read from the share container which is nice,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but then you know when when it goes away to do all the operation just fail like
⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t you your your split brain then you got to reconcile you’re ready
⏹️ ▶️ John little sink engine between two things
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco exactly your server
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so it sounds it sounds really hard so we’ll I’ll see what they have in store for this, but I’m still
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not yet convinced that I should even do a native overcast app that can play things on its own off without the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone there I I would not call that a guarantee that that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John worth doing aren’t you gonna at least do it just to get the better launch time and responsiveness
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I’m certainly gonna play with that and see that that that for sure you know I’m most likely going to do that
⏹️ ▶️ John no new functionality all the data comes from the same places but fewer spinners
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hopefully yeah so yeah I’m certainly gonna try it but but I don’t you know you’re not already
⏹️ ▶️ John if you haven’t done by now
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah he probably he probably is he probably did write it already
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but overall it’s great and And you know, besides Overcast, there’s a lot of other apps that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco can benefit hugely from this. So I’m looking forward to this. Again, I’ve said before, I don’t consider the watch like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a huge app platform. I consider it a platform that everybody
⏹️ ▶️ Marco uses a relatively small number of apps, but that that is incredibly useful to them.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think it’ll stay that way. Just the apps that you can use will just get better now. And more kinds of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps will be possible now than were before. I still don’t really see the watch as like, I’m going to leave
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my phone in my pocket while I’m sitting on the couch and just like be poking around on the watch for 15 minutes. Like I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that’s going to happen. No, I agree.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so what else with watchOS 2? I don’t think there’s anything that I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey aware of. There
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were like some Siri improvements, but yeah, for the most part, it’s about the, you know, it’s all about the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps and I think that’s enough, personally.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Then we got to the second presentation, which… So thanks a lot to our
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey sponsors this week, Cards
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Against Humanity, Automatic, and Squarespace, and we will see you next week.
⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, cause
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ John John didn’t do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn’t let him, cause
⏹️ ▶️ John it was accidental, it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ John And you can find the show notes at atp.fm,
⏹️ ▶️ John and if you’re into twitter, you can follow them at
⏹️ ▶️ John c-a-s-e-y-l-i-s-s, so that’s Casey Liss, m-a-r-c-o-a-r-m,
⏹️ ▶️ John and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A
⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse. It’s accidental. They
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t mean to. Tech Podcasts So Long.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So that Apple Music presentation.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Well, there’s the
⏹️ ▶️ John one thing developers care about. It’s music. music.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I let’s just pretend that didn’t happen and let’s just pretend that it ended right before the one more thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it was a much better conference.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That way I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John mind so much the music things. What I mind a lot is that they they
⏹️ ▶️ John devalued one more thing by
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, making the watch one more thing felt appropriate. Yep Yep, it felt totally appropriate
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. This was not one more thing
⏹️ ▶️ John and like it’s fine. They can they can take ownership to that phrase and make it mean something else and
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of devalue it. That’s go for it. Whatever will get used to it after a few things. We’re just like, oh, remember
⏹️ ▶️ John one more thing was a big deal, but now it’s not anymore. That’s fine, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait wasn’t one more thing at one time safari for windows.
⏹️ ▶️ John Steve Jobs could make one more thing anything you want in the Steve Jobs era. One more thing was always like
⏹️ ▶️ John he felt like he had to have something cool and either he had to fake it and pretend he was really enthusiastic about
⏹️ ▶️ John this or he really was enthusiastic about it, but nobody else was. But either way, it was his thing. He could pull it off
⏹️ ▶️ John right once he’s gone. It becomes like oh that was his thing. If you do it now, you’re invoking him.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not appropriate to do. They didn’t do it for a long time. I did it for the watch, which is like the most significant announcement of Tim
⏹️ ▶️ John Cook’s tenure as Apple CEO. It felt significant. It felt like the right time to do it
⏹️ ▶️ John now. They’re just going to switch it back to like every presentation. We feel like we want to have this gag at you know
⏹️ ▶️ John at the end with the one more thing. I don’t know anyway, but yeah, then what followed was a really long
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of railing presentation that was not relevant to vote to developers. I think even when they do hardware that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John more relevant to developers. Developers buy hardware, right? How in the world is music?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well, I mean you can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco argue that oh well developers listen to music that’s great, but to me this it see everything they announced with music
⏹️ ▶️ Marco today seemed like it’s a lot more for the music publishers than it is for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco us. Like we get okay a snazzy new looking music app. Honestly I didn’t find the music
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John compelling, but I listen to terrible music. trying
⏹️ ▶️ John to pitch is like this is a streaming service that is. I think they to try to pitch it was like this is differentiated from the
⏹️ ▶️ John other streaming services that we involve humans in the process and that the same reasons you like beats in their playlist
⏹️ ▶️ John because we and we have people with taste who are going to do stuff. It’s not just a bunch of algorithms, which is funny coming from the
⏹️ ▶️ John company that made genius, which is a bunch of algorithms. I do right, but like that’s their
⏹️ ▶️ John whole big pitch is like this is a streaming service, but with a difference and the difference
⏹️ ▶️ John you know in some respects they’re pitching the publishers like oh one place where you can go to put all your stuff. But that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of BS. You know, like the publishers are going to put their music where the customers are and they have to have their
⏹️ ▶️ John music on Spotify because it’s so popular and they have to have it on apples because of iTunes and they’re just going to spread it around. It’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John like the labels are going to be like, Oh, I got to do this thing for connected and you got to put pictures here, but you also have to have a YouTube
⏹️ ▶️ John channel, but you also got to have a Facebook page. But you also like this is not clarify or simplify
⏹️ ▶️ John anything from their from their perspective. So I think it was mostly just like, Hey, me too. We have one of these
⏹️ ▶️ John and customers. You’ll like it because we hired a bunch of people who you respect who are going to use their musical taste
⏹️ ▶️ John to give you something and they leaned on the no ad thing like they didn’t get down to the nitty gritty details to explain like
⏹️ ▶️ John how do the things that play on terrestrial radio get chosen for to be on trust a radio and it has almost nothing
⏹️ ▶️ John to do with what some person likes and it’s everything to do with what record companies want to promote
⏹️ ▶️ John and you know the format of the station. You have to play one of these and one of those and five of these and we got paid to play these
⏹️ ▶️ John and like where they we’re really emphasizing on this one. This is the music that a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ John of people we hired think is good music, which is which is very different from terrestrial radio,
⏹️ ▶️ John but and you know Spotify different from Spotify, but Spotify is not really like a radio station and
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know like they’re trying to say we are better than the other ways that you listen to music in these ways that are
⏹️ ▶️ John important to us, but I was just too busy being annoyed by the fact that this is supposed to be a developer
⏹️ ▶️ John conference and maybe I shouldn’t be maybe it’s silly you know whatever that I should care about this
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s just because it was like a flabby presentation, and it was long and boring and rambling.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, that’s what I was going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey say, is that I can get over the fact that they’re using one of the couple of times that they’re in front of the world
⏹️ ▶️ Casey during the year to announce something that’s somewhat irrelevant to developers. However, I just thought
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that entire 40 minutes or whatever it was, was just hugely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey boring. And I wasn’t impressed by it at
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all. And I think part of the reason I wasn’t impressed by it is everything else in the keynote, And even
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the regular presentations that the public doesn’t get to see throughout WABDC, they’re all so well
⏹️ ▶️ Casey rehearsed, they’re so well orchestrated, they’re all so solid. And this was just like a train
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wreck to me by comparison. And I don’t know, I just, I didn’t care for it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wasn’t really sold on Apple Music. I remain not really sold on Apple Music. What is it that you guys
⏹️ ▶️ Casey are doing better than everyone else?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John The only thing I got was the curation,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I don’t really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco care. here. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be fair, that is what a lot of people like about Beats. And this is kind of,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey you know, this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically Beats Music 2.0 or whatever. That, like, you know, our friends on Connected will probably talk about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this better than we can because they actually use these things more than we do. But, you know, people do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the human curation aspect. I’m interested in that aspect. I wasn’t really sure,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco though, from what we saw today, like, it didn’t sell me on it.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John of it was because I was tired and zoning out after a long morning.
⏹️ ▶️ John in with all the other stuff that we’re talking about there were if I had to pull out the port that the points
⏹️ ▶️ John that are important to me as someone who doesn’t use these streaming services
⏹️ ▶️ John is music being taken away for music being being rationalized for
⏹️ ▶️ John families and that you pay once for an entire family and they all get access to the music
⏹️ ▶️ John being rationalized into a single app called music and the fact that the app is available on android which clearly
⏹️ ▶️ John expresses apples intent to compete with Spotify and stuff not to make this is the way the people who
⏹️ ▶️ John own apple devices listen to music, but to try to be like itunes was before it. This is the way
⏹️ ▶️ John people buy music, not just mac users buy music with you know in the old days, but before ios not just mac users
⏹️ ▶️ John not to ios users. There’s itunes for windows. Everybody should buy music through itunes and that’s sort of the
⏹️ ▶️ John itunes error of buying songs for ninety nine cents seems to be moving on and we’re in the new
⏹️ ▶️ John streaming age and it’s important for apple to stake its claim notice not not by making a
⏹️ ▶️ John windows version of apple music, but making an android version. We were in the mobile error and so
⏹️ ▶️ John you know those two things one taking itunes and music out of the ghetto. I don’t know if it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John is this replacing itunes match does it also put your stuff in the cloud or is this entirely separate either way this is priced
⏹️ ▶️ John the way we expect things to be priced and structured
⏹️ ▶️ John way we expect them to be structured and to saying this is not just an apple thing. This is
⏹️ ▶️ John a everything thing they are trying. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but are trying to relive
⏹️ ▶️ John their former glory. At one time, iTunes defined digital music. Now it no longer does.
⏹️ ▶️ John They’re trying to get that back with Apple Music.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I pretty much think that perfectly encapsulates everything I had to say about Apple Music. So we got to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey talk about two important things during this after show. Number one, what watch did you get, John?
⏹️ ▶️ John I got the same one as Marco. I remember me hemming and hawing like, I don’t know if no we’re going to use
⏹️ ▶️ John this thing. I don’t like wearing watches. My main problem was I just not like how the sport one looks and the other one was
⏹️ ▶️ John just so darn expensive. And in the end I said, look, I like the I like
⏹️ ▶️ John the more expensive one. I got the expensive one. I got the stainless steel one for two reasons. One, I like how it looks way
⏹️ ▶️ John better than the other one. And two, I wanted the the sapphire scratch resistance because I’m not going to
⏹️ ▶️ John be doing sport things with it. So impact resistance was less important, but I’ve already scraped it against things
⏹️ ▶️ John and then realized, oh, it’s probably okay because, you know, you look up the hardness scale the thing I scraped it against you know so
⏹️ ▶️ John no scratches so far I got a black classic buckle band because it just looks like a regular watch band
⏹️ ▶️ John I am NOT used to wearing watches the first day I wore it it itched me like crazy because it was wiggling my arm hairs around
⏹️ ▶️ John this week this is my first week with the watch it arrived just before I came to WWDC I’m gonna wear it this whole week I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John just gonna do it I’m gonna wear it all day I’m already getting used to it it’s a little bit heavy sometimes it catches on things
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s kind of neat and it looks cool
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yes so so far on Syracuse a review. So far
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the big test is after W. W. C. Week after I leave the place where thousands of other people also have
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple watches. Do I keep wearing it? Do I put it on when I go to work? Am I going to get into
⏹️ ▶️ John the Marco Green Ring cycle? I don’t know. I’m I really
⏹️ ▶️ John have any weight to lose. It’s not even
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that like it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John I think I already have a significant amount of antibodies for these gamification of of fitness things that
⏹️ ▶️ John but I’ve you know I’m pretty immune to being guilted into doing things by
⏹️ ▶️ John by my watch, but I’m gonna. I’m gonna give it a try. You know Casey’s tapping me
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I got we all got tap to
⏹️ ▶️ John stand up during this recording this podcast. None of us stood up. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I thought of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John thought there was no
⏹️ ▶️ John stand up gag and in the keynote, which was a little
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco surprise. I thought there would be yeah. It
⏹️ ▶️ John was perfect opportunity, even if they just wanted to pretend it was an ad lib and not time the entire keynote around. They didn’t do it at
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they were two opportunities.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, that’s true. They were
⏹️ ▶️ John three. It was a two-stand keynote.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s the new measure. The other thing we need to discuss that’s really, really important is how in the name of all that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is holy do you have a trifold wallet? What is wrong
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you? I’ve always
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco had a trifold wallet. This is a George
⏹️ ▶️ John Costanza wallet. It is pretty big. Well, here’s the thing about it. It’s not a George Costanza wallet because I would never put this in my
⏹️ ▶️ John back pocket when it’s sitting down. That’s crazy.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You guys are going to get pictures of this. You’re
⏹️ ▶️ John just going to destroy yourself. Two, it’s thick because it does have a lot of money and a lot of cards. I would like
⏹️ ▶️ John to get rid of a lot of these And it also has some stupid business cards floating in there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we get a side view of this
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not as thick as you would think.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it up so I can take a picture of this. If I take all the
⏹️ ▶️ John money out of it. No, don’t take the money
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey out of it. That’s cheating. How many iPhones thick
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, seriously. Let’s measure it.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is what my wallet looks like most of the time with no money
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco in it. With no money in it, I would say
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s roughly four iPhones thick.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I think that’s fair to say.
⏹️ ▶️ John Four with cases. thinner at the it’s like it’s like the air
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah in the middle of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thickest part which is the widest part as well yeah the bulk of its the bulk of its width it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is at least three if
⏹️ ▶️ John thick I like trifolds better than then bifolds I guess you would call them I just
⏹️ ▶️ John I just like the way the trifold goes together, but this is thicker and thicker than I would like it.
⏹️ ▶️ John I would like to get rid of a lot of these cards if I if they accepted Apple pay everywhere I get rid of more of them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the problem you’re carrying around like eight layers of leather there when it’s folded up.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. Yeah, the whole tri-fold thing, like it’s appealing for a second because you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can fold it on top of itself and it seems to take up a lot less space than a single fold
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or bi-fold, I guess, wallet. But it is insane! Every tri-fold wallet I’ve ever seen
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or had in my completely just barbaric days of my youth,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were all like three feet thick and
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John feet thick. This wallet may be
⏹️ ▶️ John older than you Casey.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well it’s time for you to upgrade. You
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what? You can’t keep it in your pocket so it doesn’t wear it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey all. It’s actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wearing a little bit finally. I don’t know. The reason like so what kind of wallet do I have John? Do you know? I have no idea.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because you’ve never seen it. Because it’s in my pocket.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t have to take it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of my pocket when I sit down.
⏹️ ▶️ John Amen brother. The only reason I brought this with me is because my hotel key card thing is in it. That’s why I have it
⏹️ ▶️ John with me at all. I bring this with me to and from work every day but it’s not in my pockets it’s ever it’s in my back,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey so you’re one of those lunatics that every time you sit down, it’s like strip everything.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I know it’s in my
⏹️ ▶️ John backpack. My wallet is in my backpack. I don’t put it in
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that’s that’s where my wallet is. That’s it’s weird. That’s very
⏹️ ▶️ John time. We were at W. W. C. It was in my backpack. That’s insane to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me because what if you lose your backpack, you lose your wall.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s on my back.
⏹️ ▶️ John I was like where’s it going?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You never know you sit it down when you’re in the sessions and then you’re not going to get on the darn plane to go home to your family
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John because you lost your license my backpack anyway.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not you know. I have more problems finding a place to put my phone because my phone I can’t really keep it in my
⏹️ ▶️ John front pocket when I sit down because I have trouble getting it out because it’s so damn big. It’s is it too thin
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so it’s so afraid
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to bend it.
⏹️ ▶️ John already bent. I don’t even want to look now. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh God, you’re seriously turning away with revulsion at the thought of it.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to know that it’s bent, but now I can’t look away. It’s a bed. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know yeah, it’s throw it to me. I’ll sit it on the table here. We’ll see We’re not going to know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in summary, I have actually, I’ve switched from a single fold wallet to this, what
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is this? A Yubi? Y-U-B-I wallet. It was a Kickstarter. And to be honest, it’s a year or two old and I kind of need
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get a new one because some of the elastic is falling down. But this is thicker. God, Marco, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ridiculously thin. What do you have in there?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Three credit cards, driver’s license, a metro card for the New York City subway, so we wish I hardly ever use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and about six bills fold in half.
⏹️ ▶️ John have zero business cards in there, though that’s true. How will you know the phone number of the person who cuts your hair?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What I’ve never called the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey person. Are you being serious? I have a business card. You have an
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that can store these things.
⏹️ ▶️ John I always use the business card. I got a business card for a restaurant. It’s no longer open.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey me that business card right now and throwing it away. Give it to me right now.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John There you go. Take it out. This one. This was a good place. John just
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thrown me the business
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco card. I tried to do that’s right on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the floor. That’s amazing. So you that’s what you’re keeping in there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I don’t keep car seats
⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s usually the problem people keep receipts. Now I have a bunch of business cards of things. I have my hair cutting place. I
⏹️ ▶️ John have my insurance agent. I have a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey why do you have your insurance age? I have my like the wallet equivalent of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John speed. I have
⏹️ ▶️ John my barking parking ticket for the the airport.
⏹️ ▶️ John the chestnut Hill Apple store thing in here. Let’s
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh my God, I got my triple A card. Why?
⏹️ ▶️ John I got credit cards,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco my driver’s license, my
⏹️ ▶️ John health insurance card. Oh God, this is ridiculous. Anyway, yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John it could be thinner. The real problem is like the amount of money that I have in here is making it thick.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so it is sensitive to
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco small changes like that. That’s one of the problems.