Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

119: Promoretired

Christina Warren joins us to discuss Pebble Time, the Apple Watch native SDK, and Jony Ive’s promotion.

Episode Description:

This week we're joined by friend of the show Christina Warren (@film_girl). Christina writes for Mashable and hosts Rocket and Overtired.

As a part of this podcast exchange program, John joined Rocket for this week's episode.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know this is pre follow-up and that’s kind of against the rules to put anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey before follow-up in the show deliberately But John isn’t here right now. And so I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get away with it because I say I can I wanted to tell you guys that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have Amended and changed my water routine for when I record

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the reason I’ve done that is because I have now Killed Aaron’s laptop twice. This is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mighty mug. I believe it’s called and And what’s amazing about it is if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I push on it, it doesn’t fall over. Yet, if I just pick it up,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it works. No problem. Let me get the mic closer so you can get a, so I can hear the water not spilling on the laptop. Yeah, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So here we go. I’m pushing. Nothing’s happening. How amazing is that? And then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I just pick it up, no problem. So, yeah. So I just wanted to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let you know that, uh, my water situation is now better because of, uh, underscore David

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Smith. So I appreciate that that guy makes everything better. He really does and you know, what else makes everything better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doing a crossover with rocket And so the voice that you hear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is not John Syracuse is a friend of the show Christina Warren. So Christina welcome

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’m glad to be here. I’m glad to be here. I feel like I’m not sure

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren if you guys got the good end of the bargain or the bad end because so John is on sir is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren on on Syracuse is on rocket right now the podcast I do with Brianna Wu and Simone

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren de Rochefort and I’m here and I’m super excited but as

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren are we.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren some of the audience members are not I’m already seeing some hate tweets come through which is awesome. Send them on forward

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren like seriously, Phil slip, dude hate on.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s already happening.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It’s already happening, which is which, which honestly is awesome. And here’s the thing. I mean, like, obviously, I don’t deal

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren with as much stuff as a lot of women on Twitter. I’m very fortunate. But I have a very thick skin

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren because I’ve been in the media business for a long time. So honestly, you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren can hate… I hope the listeners don’t hate me. I hope they like me. But if they don’t, that’s okay. And it’s not going

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to hurt my feelings.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So we’re just doing a little something special. We’re, like I said, sending John over to Rocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have Christina here, which is excellent. And by the way, Rocket

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really good. Thank you. I think I keep not saying this in public because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I keep thinking I’ve already said it. And I don’t want to say it as a tack on when we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco talking about women in tech because that kind of seems like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren patronizing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But not only is it very good, not only have I heard every episode, but it has quickly joined

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of my top few priority slots in Overcast. When it comes out, I listen to it usually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same day, if not the next day, because it is just one of my favorites.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Well, thank you. I’m super, super psyched to see, to hear that. We’ve really enjoyed it. You know, it’s been a fun

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren process. And I don’t know about about Brie, but I know that I totally went into it was

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren like, yeah, we totally want to do an ATP, but with kind of female voices. So thanks, you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren guys for having created accidentally such a great show that we could we could copy

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and profit from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree with what Marco said and unless this turned into a two-hour accidental mutual admiration

⏹️ ▶️ Casey society, let’s just, let’s start with some follow-up as per usual. So I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey made- Wait, are we allowed to do follow-up without John? Dude, whatever. He’s not here to yell at us.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, I was gonna say, like, really?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should go through it in like 30 seconds.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I mean, I can complain if that’s what, if you guys need somebody to complain on him and Ha about stuff. I can do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’d be curious to hear that. So first of all, how many windows do you have open right now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Christina?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren One, two, three, four, five, six. So only six.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s okay. You are definitely not a John replacement.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren No.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey None of us can be.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s just not it. All right, so some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quick follow-up. Number one, the show bot is apparently not working for the first time in months, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not going to try to diagnose that right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh, John

⏹️ ▶️ Casey missed that? I know. See? already taking a turn we didn’t expect.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This might relate to the fact that Heroku has very recently changed their pricing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I’m not sure if the show bot has now run afoul of that and I am not going to diagnose

⏹️ ▶️ Casey while I’m on the air.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is this like one of those exciting new opportunities that really just makes everything worse and more expensive?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Simple answer, yes. Long answer, maybe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Did the answer begin with, we’re happy to announce? We’re incredibly excited to tell you about how we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made our service worse and more expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Salesforce is happy to say that we finally figured out a way to profit off of all of these,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what are they called? Raptors? What are they? Dinos. Dinos. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco you. I like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better. See, to me, it’s all like, these are all voodoo made up terms by Heroku. So like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Raptors, which is as good as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, so I apologize for the show bot. Really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quickly, I alluded to Aaron’s laptop earlier. Aaron’s laptop is on its way to the depot, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the depot is. I brought it to the Apple Store on Monday, on Memorial Day.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I fessed up and said water was spilled on it. And this was about halfway through the conversation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with the genius. And the moment I said water was spilled on it, the conversation effectively ended.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And he said, okay, that means it’s a tier four repair, which apparently, obviously, there’s multiple tiers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for sending it to the depot. That’s a tier four repair, which will be $665 for parts,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no matter how much or little needs to be repaired, plus $100 for labor plus tax. So I’m in for $755 plus tax.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ll get it back in about a week.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren This is for a MacBook Air, correct?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s right. This is for an eight-month-old MacBook Air that I got Erin for her birthday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last year because I’m the best husband ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Totally. a shame that like AppleCare Plus on the phone and the watch and the iPad will

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren cover water damage but they don’t offer AppleCare Plus for the laptops because that would totally

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren be amazing. I would pay like another $50 if I could get water damage covered

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren on my MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, well, in retrospect.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. On the other hand, though, how much would they charge for that? Because like, you know, regular AppleCare on that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is what, $250 and $350 for the 15s? Well, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what I’m saying. I mean, if you had to say another $50 on, I personally would probably pony up for

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but see, that’s the problem. It wouldn’t be only 50 bucks. What is it with the watch?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s 100, or with the phone even, it’s 100 bucks for regular. With the phone, it’s 100 for regular,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and then it is 75 for a replacement if you need

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to have it replaced, and you can have two of those. For the iPad, it’s 100, yeah, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren also 100, but it is $50 per replacement. Apparently, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren assuming just based on this they must replace a whole lot more iPhones than they do iPads

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and that’s why they charge a higher replacement fee And in fact the the replacement fee went

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren up this year like it was $50 and now at 75 but you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren know if you’re like me and you’re walking up some steps after a meeting with some people and you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren literally fall forward and Flip you trip on your flip-flops and shatter your phone screen right

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren before xoxo which coincidentally is the day before the iPhone 6 pre-orders

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren go on sale. Like you need a phone and you go like, okay, well I gotta go to the Apple Store and

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren get a new one. And AppleCare Plus came through. I mean and people were like, oh well you could have just waited

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and pre-ordered the 6. I was like, first of all, I couldn’t actually swipe on the screen. Like I would get glass in my fingers.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Second of all, the phone has to go to my husband because he gets my tech hand-me-downs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It would probably cause problems if you gave him a shattered untouchable phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Oh, completely. You know, we already did that with the iPhone 4 or 4S. How did that go over?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It was okay. That one wasn’t that bad, but it was a little bit chipped.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And I never ended up… This was before they had, I think, the AppleCare that covered the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren damage, the accidental damage or whatever. And so it worked fine. And then he ended

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren up doing something to it. And then I think he wound up giving it to a homeless person. Only in New York, you guys.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay. I’m not even sure where to go from there. I am. Oh my goodness. So yeah, so Aaron’s laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is at the depot getting repaired. I’m already getting suggestions in the chat room about what I could or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey should have done. With respect to those of you making those suggestions, don’t care. It’s already done. The ship

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is sailed. It is what it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am curious though, because once you’re talking almost 800 bucks to repair it, that’s fairly close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the price of replacing it, right? Exactly. why you chose to go that route. I mean, is it just like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the extra three or four hundred bucks you just thought was worth it?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren That’s enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The three or four hundred dollars just didn’t seem worth it to me since the machine was so darn close to new. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Erin doesn’t have particularly robust needs of her computer. If anything, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the one who has bigger needs insofar as it needs to be able to withstand spills

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and do, you know, podcasting and whatnot. So it just didn’t seem worth it to me to spend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey another $300 or $400 just to get something brand new. And this tier four repair is basically going to go through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the entire computer and replace darn near all of it. So I didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see the point in doing anything different. People are saying, Oh, well, you could have sold it for parts and gotten a new one. Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m sure I could have. I could have gazelle did perhaps Yes, I’m sure I could have. But just this seemed like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they probably test for

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that. Well, they do. But because they’ll will give you a discounted amount of money if they find that it’s damaged

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or something. So if you sold it to gazelle saying it has water damage they would say okay well we value this at $300

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren in which case though you’d still wind up spending the same amount of money anyway buying a new one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But then you’d have a new one.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah but I mean he’s basically going to get a new one anyway. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well there are a couple things that he like so there’s no you don’t have Broadwell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren right?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren That’s I was going to say you are actually correct the new the new one would have Broadwell whereas you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren know the 2014 just had Haswell.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the new one would also have a warranty that started today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, you could have quarterbacked this differently, no argument, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just wanted it done and fixed. And this was the most reasonable way in which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I felt I could do that without spending $300 that seemed to me to be unnecessary.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is not—certainly, I would have gotten, or Aaron would have gotten things for that $300, but it wasn’t a big

⏹️ ▶️ Casey enough difference to really justify it. In my personal estimation, you, as in the collective, you may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not agree, and that’s okay. And we’re going to hear about it. And we’re going to hear about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren it.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren You know, the thing too is that since I think that they’ll be able to just like move all the data over or whatever, I mean, that,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you know, I mean, obviously, I’m sure you have an entire time machine backup strategy and all that stuff done. You know, we

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren all have our synologies. I think we all have the same model, the 1813 plus.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren But you know, you have a whole setup going that way. But even just the process of having to reset

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren everything up again, I think it’ll come back with its hard drive and everything intact. I mean, that is probably worth

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren not getting the new machine and having to set it all up again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. It’s just not worth it to me. So that’s the way it is. And I’m already getting sick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of this follow-up. So let’s move on. We got a lot of follow-up about running with your iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And quite honestly, I don’t care because nobody really has good answers. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me, since John isn’t here, just say nobody really knows what the hell is going on. And that’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the end of the meeting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. I love that we just got to skip right over this. I actually just about 15 minutes ago,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right before the show, I was for the first time running briefly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey run, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco running briefly and then walking a lot between the running brieflys with my watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with no phone because I had to fill my green circle for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren day. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s been raining all day as, Christina, you know, being in New York.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yes. Well, it started raining later this afternoon, but it’s been gross out

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco regardless.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s it’s been pouring rain for my entire potential dog walking window that I usually take

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is basically any time after 4 so I Knew I’d be recording this show

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until almost midnight not likelihood. So Sorry, if you if you weren’t prepared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for You I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren didn’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s gonna go on that long

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I mean, I’m totally cool with that my husband who’s in his office like he might get a little

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren no, he’ll be fine He’s got the Plex box and Sonar, which is this

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren amazing torrenting news group app. Do you guys know about Sonar?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I don’t think we’re supposed to know about things like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, we’re probably not supposed to talk about things like this, but it’s amazing. It’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Unison.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Kind of. It’s basically an app that it has a really good interface web app that you can connect it to a private

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren torrent tracker or to news groups, which is how we have it set up. And it’ll basically find any TV show you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren want and it’ll find it in whatever quality you want it to do and then it’ll tag

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it and label it and title it exactly as you want and file it on your NAS

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or whatever the way you want it and then Plex just imports it in and all of a sudden

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you have every episode of Keeping Up With The Kardashians ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey True story. So it’s kind of sort of popcorn time but not necessarily about the streaming portion.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Exactly, because like it’s actually locally downloading it. It’s just making it super easy to do. So

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren for instance, I wanted to watch Keeping Up with the Kardashians, but also we have all of HBO

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Silicon Valley. And the thing is that we pay for HBO and HBO Go, and I actually have like a

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren subscription to HBO Now, which I know is superfluous, but I got a six month subscription for free.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren So I’ve got that in addition to the HBO we pay for, which has all the on-demand stuff, but there’s just something

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren convenient about having a three-in-one interface.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. How is HBO Now in general?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It’s good. I mean, it’s identical to HBO Go. So you don’t have live content, meaning there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren not live linear programming, but basically within an hour or two of it airing on TV, it’s available

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren in the app. It looks really good on the Apple TV and the iPhone and iPad apps are really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren The web interface is good too. HBO Go recently updated their apps to basically look the same,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren so that’s an improvement. But no, I mean, it’s good because you have the entire catalog of not only currently

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren airing shows but their whole, like every HBO owned production. So

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren for instance, you don’t have the Larry Sanders show because that was done by Sony, but everything from Oz, which was in 1997,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren basically onward, every original series is on there. So you know, Oz, The Wire, Sex and the City,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren The Sopranos, Big Love, you know, obviously Game of Thrones,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Girls, Veep. I mean, everything is there, as well as a lot of the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren documentaries, as well as whatever first run movies they’ve got for that month,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and then whatever catalog titles they happen to have. And no, I mean, it’s comedy

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren specials, like I found an old comedy special from from Kathy Griffin from like 1995 or 1996 that I probably hadn’t seen

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren since 1996. And no, I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren mean, it’s interesting, just the amount of content that’s there. It’s, it’s really nice. And so it’s, I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren mean, basically everything you would get an HBO Go but without having to have the cable subscription.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Excellent. All right, any other follow up because we might have made record time through this and I’m pretty smug about that right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. Oh, John’s gonna be so mad. He’s gonna kill us. This is great. Yeah. Oh, he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey God. He’s gonna get so mad. The listeners are gonna get so mad. And the sad thing is they’re gonna blame you, even though this is really my fault.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I mean, they can blame me. Blame Film Girl. That’s fine. Hashtag blame Film Girl.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, but it is interesting. I am with you guys. Nobody really knows how the step things are updated.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren What’s interesting to me, Marco, you were talking about how you had to get your green circle. I’ve been reviewing

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the Pebble Time, the new Pebble smartwatch, and so I had to take off my Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren for a couple of days, and the thing I’ve missed the most, to be totally honest, has been

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren my green circles.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s surprising. Are you using it with an iPhone or Android?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Are you allowed to say how is it, or do you wanna save it for your show?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, no, no, no, I can’t. I mean, my review went live today, that’s fine. No, I mean, I like

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it. It’s an interesting product because I feel like they had

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren a real head start for a long time, but obviously the market has changed. Is it as nice as an Apple Watch?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Obviously not. And you know, even looking at it, it looks like a sports watch. Having

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren said that, you know, I spent almost $800 with tax and everything on my Apple Watch. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I spent that much money on the stainless steel with the classic leather buckle, I don’t really feel comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren running or working out with it, if I’m being completely honest. I just, I mean, that’s just too much money for me to have my wrist to

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren when I get scratched up. people feel differently, but for me, it doesn’t exactly feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren a great sports device for me. Whereas the Pebble is $200, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it’s plastic and has an e-paper display and is waterproof and

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren has a really good battery life. And so that’s the sort of thing that like if I was going out running or working out or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’d be like, hey, if something happens to this, no big deal. I mean, it basically has taken everything

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that was good about the Pebble and they’ve improved upon it. The problem is that for $200, like I gave

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it, we have this thing, Mashable Choice, which is like a good housekeeping seal of approval or whatever. And I gave

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it the Mashable Choice, and that doesn’t mean that I think it’s better than the Apple Watch, because that’s not what this means. It just means, would you recommend

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren this to someone? And under the right circumstances, I totally would. I mean, it’s a $200 watch that

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren does a really good job doing what it does. And it actually works fairly well with iOS,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren although it works better with Android. But the hard thing is when

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I say, would you buy this over the Apple Watch or would you say don’t buy the Apple Watch? Even though my Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Watch was almost four times the cost, it’s hard for me to kind of compare them because they

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren are different devices. I feel like at a $350 watch versus $200,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’d still give the edge to the Apple Watch and that’s going to be a different experience and obviously have a different ecosystem.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren But for the current product, if you’re somebody who doesn’t care about the looks and you’re not

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren as invested in the Apple ecosystem, I think it’s certainly a ton better than Android Wear,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren like light years ahead of Android Wear, even though it’s not as flashy or shiny. And it does

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren a lot of the same things that you can do now on an Apple Watch. Now, will that change

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren once WWDC rolls around and kind of next wave of apps and things like that happen?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren That could change the conversation. And I certainly worry about the company’s longevity, you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren know, going forward. But it’s not a bad product, and especially for a sports watch, which is why

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I backed it on Kickstarter. A, I like to back the little guys. B, this is going to be something that I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren use when I ride my bike or I go running, and I don’t want to scratch up the chrome

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren on the stainless steel Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Steven Powell, I think that’s an interesting point to go into a little bit. Is there kind of a problem that Apple made

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the steel watch too nice? To me, I decided, because I have the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one as you except for 42, because you have Yes. But yeah, so I have the stainless steel 42 with the classic buckle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I love it. Do you have, you don’t have the modern buckle yet, do you?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, because they’re not shipping. And that was why I had to, I had to cancel my modern buckle order. Well, I didn’t cancel

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it. I ordered a second place, the second order, and then canceled my modern buckle order after I got my second

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren order.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. TIFF’s modern buckle is scheduled, the whole modern buckle watch is scheduled to be here June 4th through 11th. I don’t, I haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heard of any times earlier than that for that model.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, that’s the early, I didn’t even have any date. I I just saw June and I had so much, I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren had serious FOMO, that’s fear of missing out for the audience. I had such serious FOMO

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren about not having the Apple Watch that I placed, it was like eight days after it had started shipping,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and I placed a second order, and I placed the order on a Saturday, and I got my watch on a Tuesday. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey insane.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It was, and I was like, okay, you know what? Worth it, because those 11 days without that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Watch, you guys, I was like,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco I mean, it was bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because you live on the internet, I mean, come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren on.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I do, exactly. It’s like, for me, of all people, my nickname is C-Mac, for Christ’s sake.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren For me not to have the latest Apple product, I really did, it was terrible. So June 4th through 11th, is that what they

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren said?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, for TIFFs, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Cool. So yeah, I mean, she’ll be one of the first people that I’ve seen that has it. You can’t even order it by itself

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren right now, it still says unavailable. But I will get the modern buckle as soon as it ships separately. I’ll spend

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the $2.50 and get the pink band. But, yeah.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco or stand up on a desk. And it comes with everything you need right in the box. It comes with the little screw to mount on the wall.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or you can, like I just use those little triangle hook things that you get in hardware stores.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just use those to hang them up because they’re a little bit shallower and make a small hole. And these things are nice and lightweight,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so you don’t need some giant anchor to hold it in the wall, like you do a big picture or a big piece of

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco right on the glass. And it’s printed on the backside and it shines through, so it looks like it’s on the surface,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it has this nice glossy finish on it. And it is, I can’t tell you how good these things look.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s almost like having a screen on the wall that’s just always looking perfect. Like, it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looks so good. And everybody compliments these things when they come over to my house. Everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sees these and they, oh, is that the fracture? Or if they don’t know, they say, oh, what’s that? They are great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People are always very impressed. And they make great gifts. If you wanna send a gift to somebody, if you wanna get a photo

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Father’s

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco up. Yeah, Father’s Day is coming up. You can get a photo printed of or for your father or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco grandfather, send it to them, whatever. These are so great. They make such great gifts. They make such great decorations in your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco house. and they are extremely, extremely affordably priced. So prices start at just 15 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a five inch by five inch square. They have all sorts of squares, they have all sorts of rectangles.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The prices are so reasonable. I think, I forget what I paid for my big ones, I think it was like 30 bucks. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re so affordable. And they’re so good. I even, I bought some, even when we didn’t even have an active coupon code,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I bought some at full price myself just because they’re just that good. But you don’t have to do that. You can use coupon code

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco say enough good things about fracture prints. I would say compared to a custom frame job, I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some custom frame things in my office too, and custom framing is very expensive. The result is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very big and heavy, and it kinda looks a little bit dated sometimes. You know, it can be done well, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kinda looks a little bit dated. Fracture prints are way more affordable, and they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look a lot better for the most part, and they’re just so clean and modern,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you don’t need to frame them. They serve their own self-enclosed purpose. They are just so good. I cannot say enough

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, Fractures are really, really wonderful. The comments you made about it looking like a screen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the wall, had I not seen and actually owned a handful of Fractures, I would have thought you were crazy, but no, really.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It really does look kind of like that. It’s really fantastic. So definitely check it out. Big

⏹️ ▶️ Casey news today, and I mean that non-sarcastically. Well, I think I mean that non-sarcastically.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The native Apple Watch SDK, which we all knew was coming eventually, apparently is coming like soon,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like apparently WWDC time. So I think Marco, you’re probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey most well-equipped to kind of kick this off. How does that make you feel? What do you think about that? Does that change

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything? Did you cry happy tears? What’s going on?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m really happy about it, first of all. I mean, whether or not I want to use it immediately is a different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco story. We’ll see when it comes out. But I’m extremely happy and pleasantly surprised.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was assuming, and I’ve said this a number of times, I’ve been assuming that it would come in November

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that we would be able to run the apps we create with it maybe next spring with the launch of Watch 2

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever. And so this is a good few months earlier than what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was expecting. And that’s, I’m just happy. I’m happy. We don’t know anything about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet. All we know is that today on, I think it was on stage, right? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren it

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren was at the Code Conference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes. So it was Jeff Williams, right? It was. Yeah. So Jeff Williams, the current Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco COO, was giving an interview and he said that there would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a native SDK at WBDC this year. So being announced in what, 10 days, two weeks,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So really soon. So this is, I mean, this is potentially really great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There are so many questions. Like I’m writing a blog post. I’m still drafting it of like my giant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco list of questions about like things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco curious about with the SDK. You know, just, you know, some of the simple things like how much storage space

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do apps have to use. Stuff like that. But like there’s, if you actually think about the reality of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having native code access on the watch, there really are quite a lot of questions that come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up as a result of that. It’s like just simple things like, okay, you have the app on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch, you have the app on the phone, how do they communicate? Can they share data? Can they sync? What

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens when the watch is away from the phone and then it comes back? Does it then have to sync the data manually? There

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are so many little gotchas like that. What kind of restrictions will there be on backgrounding?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As we know from the iPhone, backgrounding and multi-processing and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco background network fetches, background refresh all these things that we take for granted now in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPhone I’m betting we get almost none of that on the watch.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah I mean for battery alone I would think that that would that would kind of put the kibosh on a lot of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren What I think would be interesting and we’ll obviously have to wait another 10 days to see going

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren back to the Pebble a little bit one of the interesting things that they’ve done with their model and you know their code

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren execution model is very very different and much more limited than it is on the iPhone but they have a thing where you can basically

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren have your JavaScript apps like fully executed on the watch. So there’s some apps like the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Foursquare, excuse me, the Swarm app that live there. And then there’s some apps that actually talk to a companion app

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren on your phone, which is similar to what the Apple Watch does now. So I think it’ll be interesting to see if they,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren because Pebble has had to deal with some of those same constraints, granted at a much lower scale and with

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren much higher memory constraints. But I think it’ll be interesting to see how Apple’s philosophy differs from

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what other people have done from what other platforms have done and maybe what they’ve learned from how those things have

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren worked or haven’t worked.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Because, I mean, this is such an interesting question to start asking, like, what will this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be? And, you know, we’ll know in two weeks, at least we’ll know a lot of it. But there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also, there’s going to be a, I think, a political policy angle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here, which is like, you know, every time Apple releases a new platform

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or enables new, makes your new functionality, it gives them an opportunity to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enforce and shape things to fit their political goals. So, for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco example, maybe watch apps will be required to be written in Swift for no technical reason just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a requirement to promote Swift adoption. Maybe certain things—I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guarantee you that certain things that are allowed today in iPhone apps won’t be allowed in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch apps. And we don’t know what those things are yet, but I’m sure there’s a list, right? And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s going to be interesting. It’s going to be possibly a little bit bumpy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as we get this going. But I think it’s going to be really interesting. And I’m just really curious to see. I mean, just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basic stuff. Like, the iPhone has… There’s so much API

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available on the iPhone. There are so many libraries and functions and interface

⏹️ ▶️ Marco widgets. Do we think it even runs UIKit? I’m guessing it has its own simplified

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. All we know is what WatchKit gives us, but WatchKit is really this kind of—I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guessing WatchKit in a little separate sandbox it gives us to play in. I’m guessing that has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very little to do with the native API.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Yeah, one of the things I’ve been thinking about, which I think is a kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of ridiculous idea but an interesting thought exercise, if nothing else, is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what if Apple, by way of App Review—and you kind of touched on this, Marco, with your political

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff earlier—what What if Apple, by way of AppReview, basically says, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you don’t really need to go native for this, so we’re going to reject this. Go back to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WatchKit APIs that you have today. And so for things like Overcast,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which this is probably a crummy example, but Overcast may not absolutely need

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a native API. So you know what? Battery life is important to us.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, I’m sorry. You’re just going to have to stick to the remote view controller, whatever it is, that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have today, we’re not going to allow you to use the native APIs, because we just don’t think you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey worthy. I doubt they’d do that, but it’s certainly something that they could do if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they so desired.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, totally. I mean, and like, I don’t right now, we know, all I know, all we know is that they said they’re gonna be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco native SDK. And he mentioned that, like games would be possible and sensor access would be possible. So that’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But my app requires continuous audio playback, even when it is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco showing on screen. On the iPhones that’s allowed. Will it be allowed on the watch? We don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even know like will it even have AV foundation and core audio? Will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch expose APIs that can play sound to the native it to the third-party SDK?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we have absolutely no idea. So it’s like there’s so many big questions here, right? Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so many big questions and we won’t know really until until next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We have no idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah I’m really curious to see where this goes. And I’m wondering how much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they allow. So as an example, let’s suppose that there is no mechanism, Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you can see wherein you could actually put podcasts onto the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watch and play them directly off the watch. So you’re limited to the same kind of situation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you have today where the phone is the thing actually doing playback. Do you think, just sitting here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now not really knowing anything, do you suspect that you would still reach for a native API

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and SDK just on account of speed? Or was it actually not that interesting to you if you can’t get files

⏹️ ▶️ Casey onto the device?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is certainly interesting either way, because no matter what, I’m sure a native app

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be faster to launch, more responsive. There are even just a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco little annoying limitations about what you can do in the UI with WatchKit,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it would be nice to have more control over that and to have more, you know, just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more abilities of things you can do. Because WatchKit is very limited. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I can’t actually get the files over there and play them without a phone present, which is what most people are asking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me for, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren like, you know…

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Exactly. That’s what they want, because you can put music, you know, on the… You can put, you know, certain data

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren on the watch, obviously. And they want to be able to say, hey, I want to be able to listen to my podcast and use overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren so I can have my smart speed settings to go through it or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. I mean, and we know from the process of putting the music onto it that it kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of sucks. Like it’s kind of slow and clunky and manual. And so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right now, I have no knowledge of whether or not an overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco native app on the watch will be possible, like technically possible, whether it it will be allowed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and whether it will suck or not. I have no information on any of those things. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t say right now whether I’m going to make an app. And then, of course, secondarily, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a question of whether it’s worth it. Because there’s going to be a lot of complexity. What I’m really curious about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is just the realities of syncing data between the two apps, between the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app and the phone app. We’ll see in reality what that entails.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But that’s a big question mark.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, that’s a really good point because that’s going to be slow already over Bluetooth

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and obviously like how like what’s your latency on that and how long you do does it look for

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it for device, you know, so that it can keep things in sync? Like how often does it does it

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren pull for that sort of thing? Yeah, you’re right. But I think that do you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren think it’s possible that maybe we could see kind of a world of hybrid apps where you have parts

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren of it that are the companion apps, the glances, the sorts of things we have now, but there are other parts that are

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren natively existing on the watch itself so that you can do things like load faster

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and pull in maybe custom UI bits or load in other sorts of code and execute

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren natively on the watch while still maybe the data that it’s using is still being

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren pulled from the phone app itself.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a good question. I mean, yeah, we don’t know yet. I mean, you know, there’s part of your question, which is like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can part of your watch presence be WatchKit and can part of it be native?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m guessing the answer to that is no, but you know, just for simplicity’s sake and the loaders and stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t know that. I’m also curious though, you know, you mentioned Glances. Like, right now Glances

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are very limited in third-party apps because we can’t have any controls on them. The entire Glance just acts as one giant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco button to launch the app. I would greatly benefit from a glance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that could have buttons on it. Right now my glance is moderately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco useful, but it would be a lot more useful if I could have like seek and pause buttons on it the way that the built-in now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco playing glance does. That would be extremely helpful to me and right now I can’t do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. So that’s worth noting. I’m also curious about whether we’ll have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco access to third-party complications. So, complications on the watch faces.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That would be extremely interesting and very, very compelling to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I might even try making different kinds of apps that aren’t overcast. There’s not really much reason

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have overcast in a complication except maybe to have play controls but that seems…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think that would be possible or good.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, and I think on the 42 it might look okay but on a 38mm screen especially it’s going to be like, no, don’t, don’t, don’t even bother.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. So I’m not expecting that. But if we could have third party complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for other kinds of apps, like I would love Weatherline, my favorite weather app. I would love Weatherline

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be able to be a complication and have a little line on the bottom, that bottom skinny slot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the, what is it, the utility face? Yeah, the utility face. I would also, and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if we have third party complications for other kinds of apps that aren’t Overcast, and then you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have buttons and glances for things like Overcast, I think that goes a very long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. And I really, really hope we get something like that. And we might not get it in version 1.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t necessarily expect to, but we’ll see. I really hope we do, and I think that could be huge.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, I’m still overall very excited about what the native SDK will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get us. I don’t know yet if Overcast will be able to have a native app that is possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and allowed and doesn’t suck in version 1 of the SDK, but I’m really glad that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a chance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I was thinking that what if you, what if I just lived in Overcast, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually is kind of true, but Overcast is my jam, that’s really the only thing I listen to on my computer,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my phone, and potentially on my watch. I could see a complication for just remaining time in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the podcast that’s currently playing.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Ooh, that’s actually, that’s a good idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I think that would be useful if Overcast is the sort of thing that basically, if I’m doing anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey entertainment related, I’m using Overcast. So even something simple like that could be helpful.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I am one of many that wrote posts about how I think third-party complications

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would be a really awesome idea. And I don’t even know where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it would go, but just the thought of being able to support that sort of thing sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really awesome to me. I mean, I had some examples on this post, which we’ll put in the show notes. You could have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something very simple from E-Trade showing you how well or poorly your portfolios doing?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Or maybe just what your next itinerary item is from TripIt? Or,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, what if you had a Tesla, Marco, and wanted to know your battery status or whatever the case

⏹️ ▶️ Casey may be? Or what’s the next delivery arriving at your house, which for most of us is an Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in three months? You know, all sorts of different things. Sports scores. Any one of these things could be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a reasonably good complication. And yeah, you know, Marco, I don’t know if there’s any terribly awesome ideas

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Overcast, but I could see all sorts of really nifty things you could do with complications. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m skeptical that’ll be part of the API for now, but I do think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it would be really awesome if they existed. Christina, do you have any thoughts on that?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, I mean, I think I would love to see more complications. I think that would be great, especially if Apple can kind of enforce

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren their own UI guidelines. I think that would be tremendous. And really, to me, I think that would be much

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren better than allowing people to submit their own app faces because that’s just going to become a

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren show the way that third party keyboards have kind of become a UI show. So

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I feel like keep it clean, but having complications would be really great. But just on

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the fact that there is going to be this preview of an SDK, I’m just excited about that, like you, Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren mostly because as an end user, I feel like this is the first time we’ll really get a chance to see what people can

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren do with this device. Because we’ve been kind of hampered a little bit by it just being,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you know, kind of, you know, the companion app aspect, the fact that you’re having to go through the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And I’m really looking forward to, even if it’s not a ton of power, even if it’s not everything,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the fact that the developers will be able to build things and execute directly on the watch. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’ve said this before, I mean, I feel like whether the Apple Watch ultimately ends up being a success

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or a failure is going to live and die based on what apps are out for it. app experience is going to

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren be key. And we haven’t at least, I enjoy some of the apps on the Apple Watch and I really like

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren my Apple Watch, but I haven’t had other than maybe mapping stuff, I haven’t had that kind of killer app yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And I feel like this will be the thing that’ll help push that sort of thing forward.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, definitely. You know, right now it feels like the watch is a really good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch with fun stuff on like the face, the complications that it has, like it’s a really good, nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch. I don’t view it as an app platform for much use, just because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the apps on it aren’t that great, and I use very few of them as a result. It’s still a great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco product to me because I like the rest of what it does. Like, I love just the timekeeping aspect,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love the faces, I love the complications, I love having the weather on my watch, I love the activity tracking, having all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these easy access to timers and stuff. I love the features it already has with no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps installed at all. But it sure would be nice to see, does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the idea of getting faster, better, more capable apps, does that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco affect things? And it might not. It might end up that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dealing with a watch on your wrist is just kinda, is so like, it’s kinda

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clunky and limited. It might end up that most people just prefer to pull their phone out of their pocket to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any kind of complex app interaction. But we don’t know that yet, because right now, apps on the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really haven’t had a fair chance because WatchKit is so limited and slow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. The only thing that I kind of dread about the pending

⏹️ ▶️ Casey native apps on the Watch is, you know that we’re just gonna get swarmed with a bunch of crappy games that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nobody really wants to play. And I’m not looking forward to that. But everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds really exciting, and I’m really curious to see how it goes. Now, Jeff Williams did say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I’m not mistaken, explicitly that it’s a preview that’s coming next, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is it, week after next? When do you think, guys, and I’ll start with Christina, if you were to just,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, have a guess, when do you think the first native watch apps from third parties

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will be available in the store?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I would say fall.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think I agree. I mean, that it would follow the iOS beta timeline if they did that.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Exactly. And whatever, whenever the final Xcode is out. Yeah, I would think that it’s probably going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren part of iOS 9 and probably whatever the next, you know, watchOS update is 1.5

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or whatever they call it, we’ll add support for native apps. But I figure they’ll preview it next week

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or week after next, and then they will have it rolled out in October-ish.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Maybe that was said, the chat room is saying maybe they said that, so I missed it if so.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I think that makes the most sense to me for sure. Any other thoughts on native

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watch apps before we move on?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do worry about battery life long-term. Like right now the watch battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is great. Like it well Christina what do you think is 38 is significantly worse?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah I mean it’s been good for me provided I don’t have too many apps installed

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and that was sort of the thing that I had to get used to. It was like just install the ones I like and that I use. So I have Overcast, I have

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Twitterific, and I have Uber and there were a couple of others that I have. I don’t have a ton of Glances

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren installed just the ones that I really use. You know one password and a couple of other things. But

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren no, I’ve actually been really impressed with battery life. But I feel like it could go both

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren ways. Like on the one hand, it could immediately tax the battery more. On the other hand, it’s possible that it

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren might be more efficient. Potentially. I don’t know if it doesn’t have to pull

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and send stuff back and forth over Bluetooth all the time. I don’t know. That’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good point. I hadn’t thought about that. But yeah, I guess it depends a lot on whether apps will be able to do things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like background refresh, which I’m guessing the answer is no, but that will have a lot to do with it, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m very curious to see what the limits are on that, because background processing on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the iPhone, if you’re doing kind of traditional stuff, that’s still limited to 10 minutes, is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco correct? On the iPhone, it’s even shorter than that now. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco threatened to change it, I think in iOS 7, they threatened to make it so that you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could get little time slices, but they wouldn’t be contiguous. That caused so many bugs during the betas of,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it was either seven or eight, it caused so many bugs and was such a pain that they gave you back your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco contiguous block, but now instead of 10 minutes, I think it’s like four minutes or two. That time keeps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going down. So I’m guessing on the watch, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not going to be running for 10 minutes in the background. There’s just no chance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, right. That’s what I was striving at is I wonder if the limit is 30 seconds or maybe even 15

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seconds, whatever it may be. I’m very curious to see what they do to kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of handcuff developers and prevent them from doing stupid stuff. Really quickly before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we talk about another thing that’s awesome, I wanted to ask you guys, I am not really into glances

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like I think a lot of other people are. And Christina, you made mention of this a second ago. I’m looking at my watch right now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I have the, I think it’s a settings glance where you can do like airplane mode and all that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have the battery glance, which I’m trying to convince myself to remove because I’ve not yet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey once hit power reserve, but I don’t know. It’s still kind of weirds me out that I don’t know of any other way to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey easily look at the battery without adding a complication. Like I wish it was in settings or something. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I really, really wanted to know, I could figure it out without having to add the glance. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have TripIt, which I am only keeping on there for the next few weeks because I’m doing a bit of traveling like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey WWDC. I have Dark Sky. I have the heart rate in case I want to try

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to convince it that I’m exercising even when I’m not. And I have, and I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco had the WDC. What does that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean? Well, like if, if I feel like I’ve run up and down stairs 15 times, my heart is pumping, then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can flip over to the heart rate glance and it’ll measure my heart rate, or I can tell it to measure my heart rate. Maybe I’ll get a minute of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey credit. And then my final glance, which was added earlier today was the WWDC app, but that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. That’s all I have. So let me start again with Christina. What do you have on there? You kind of quickly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ran them off, but it blew right by me before I had a chance to add it up in my head. What do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What do you have on there and are you looking to add or remove any?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, so I try to keep it as minimal as possible. You know, I got rid of stocks, I got rid of a bunch of

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren them that I just kind of wasn’t really using. So I have one for the subway

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren from a CityMapper. I have CityMapper on and that’s actually a pretty good watch app, I have to say. They’ve done a really

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren nice job with it. So I have CityMapper, the battery and the heart rate.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I have Overcast. I have TripIt, but again, that’s just mostly for

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren traveling. I don’t have it up all the time. Oh, I have one password. Oh, I have Authy. I have Authy. Sorry,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Authy, my two-factor authentication thing. I know one password will do that, but Authy is just easier to just have

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the things that I have the two-factor for.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I usually try to keep mine simple. I mean, it’s, I have the built-in settings

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now playing, activity, the battery, which I turned off, but it somehow got turned back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on. I got to look into that, and overcast, and that’s it. So the only third-party one I have is Overcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Interesting. Because to me, the glances are like OS X Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dashboard widgets.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Totally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, like they sit around there, not updating themselves until you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go to them, and then they’re showing old data, and then you have to wait for it to spin and update itself. It’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a crappy experience if you actually want to just glance at something, because it’s not loaded yet. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have to go see the old stuff and wait. And that’s not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I don’t really care to have more of those than necessary. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also think, you know, but when you’re swiping through, it’s just like a side-by-side card swiping interaction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so you can’t have a very long list there without it being a little bit unwieldy to navigate through. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I agree. I feel like it was Federico Vatici, although I may have that wrong, that had said

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that he had a bunch of glances, like 10 or 15 glances or something like that. And whoever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was, maybe it wasn’t Federico, I thought to myself, really? Because I have a fair number

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of third-party apps on my watch, although I don’t use very many, Overcast being one that I use a lot as an example.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I personally don’t care for most glances. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not to be corny, but the only time I really want to have a glance is if it’s something that I want to just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey glance at, like TripIt, like what’s coming next at WWDC,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like my battery life if I can ever convince myself to remove it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things like that where I’m just going to look for a second and then I’m going to move on. And then I’m going to use an app for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something like Overcast where I’m going to be going in and out of it or maybe I want it up for a while because I’m going to be fiddling with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a lot. And glances just don’t really cut it for me. And so I was just curious. And it sounds like we’re all kind of of the same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mind in this one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and also for that kind of quick glancing and quick launching, complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are better in every way for those things. So like, I love having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the complications on the face that let me remove a glance, and that let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not ever have to go to the home screen, which I hate, to find the app and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do something there. Like, I love having the complications there. And so, I don’t know, I’m curious also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just see, like, as the watch software gets updated by Apple, do we get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more watch faces? You know, how often do we get a new watch face? Do we get new complications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Apple being added? Or do some of the existing watch faces that don’t have complications, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of them, do those gain complications?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Do

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren they get updated? Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, there’s so many questions.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Do we get a Burberry watch face? Huh, huh, huh?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m just as excited. Because the watch, for me, is like half the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco value or more as the built-in stuff, I’m also just excited to see what software updates bring to the watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Apple.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m curious to see how it goes. But we should talk about something else that’s awesome. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, take it away.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so other big news in the last week On what was it Monday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple announced that Johnny Ive is promotes promo retired

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren retirement

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco retire

⏹️ ▶️ Casey moated What what do we think about that? So The the quick

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recap is they’ve said that out that Johnny Ive has been promoted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to chief design officer Is that correct?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah a newly created position

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren newly created position And so he’s now in the C-suite, and day-to-day managerial

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren duty has been passed off to two lieutenants.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. And this was all reported by the actor slash humongous geek slash

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all-around awesome person Stephen Fry.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Slash Johnny Ives, BFF, who was mentioned, I think, thrice in the Amazing New Yorker

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren profile. Maybe he was only mentioned twice. I think that the Chris Martin from Coldplay was mentioned three

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren times.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey Either way,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that was one of the things that I learned reading through that amazing profile was how many famous friends

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Johnny Gaff has.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, exactly. So in the Telegraph, which is a British

⏹️ ▶️ Casey news publication, Stephen Fry wrote this article about how Johnny has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been promoted to chief design officer. Like you said, Christina, his couple of lieutenants are going to manage the day-to-day

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stuff. And among other things, at some point or another, they mentioned that this will allow him more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time to travel. So there’s a few conflicting thoughts

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this. And Rene Ritchie actually had a tweet, which I don’t have in front of me, but really, really,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really well summarized what the different ideas are.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think he said that the analysts were of the opinion that this was all to dodge having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to reveal how much Johnny makes. And what were the other two things he said? Do either of you guys remember?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this was Renee right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah, so it was like, you know analyst this is to high buddy makes Optimists this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you know great because it’s a promotion or whatever and then pessimists he’s quitting something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah Yeah, something along those lines We’ll find that we’ll find the tweet and put it in the show notes after

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the fact, but you know Those are the three kind of extreme summaries extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey brief summaries, but I don’t know Marco. How did you feel about this? What was your first reaction when you when you read this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey news?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, a little intrigued about how they announced this in this article.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yes, and how they buried it. Can we talk about how they buried this? They did this early

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren afternoon on a Monday on a holiday, so the market is closed, but also all the beat reporters

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren are half drunk because

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey nobody’s working.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do we know about this from experience, Christina?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yes, I mean I was one of those people who was like, I’m not writing this. Whoever’s got the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Memorial Day duty, they can hit this post. I was like, I’m not stopping my, for this.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I was like, if Apple’s going to bury this like this, I’m certainly not going to stop my festivities to write this news post.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Let someone else do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Exactly. So yeah, it was weird. I think it was interestingly done.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Probably well done, if I think it was well done, as well as it could have been done.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than a press release I guess but you look at this, you read between the lines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When he had that big profile, when was it, last fall in the New Yorker?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, but it was like February?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Something like that, that’s fall. Yeah. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a fine fall here in New York in February. So whenever that was, that big profile with him and talking about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the watch, you really got the impression that he was is severely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco burning out and severely overworked because he does way too much. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was kind of painful to read at times because you could see the writing on the wall. You could see like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this guy can’t keep doing this. This is unsustainable.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, no. I mean, just the fact that he’s literally overseeing everything that design

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren touches and having to be involved in all these meetings. I mean, the fact that he’s involved just in the new

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren campus. I mean, literally everything. You’re right. I mean, UI, industrial design, you know, hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren or software, it’s too much for any person. No matter how young you are, no matter how much

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you want to do things, there’s only so much you can do. And then also still, you know, he has twin

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren sons and a wife and like, you know, you got to be a person too, especially if you’ve got as much money as

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Johnny Ive has.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is probably the only way that Apple could keep him working at all because it was either this or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco burnout and quitting.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, which would be devastating to the company. I mean, you know, whether

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren he’s built a big enough team that people could survive without him or not, just the fact that such a huge figure had

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren left and could potentially go someplace else would be absolutely devastating.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. And that’s like, you know, I’m sure this is probably a lot like the Steve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco situation where I’m sure he has built up a great team. I’m sure there are people that could take over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that are taking over. So I’m not worried about Apple’s future

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with either a reduced Johnny Life capacity or if he actually does finally leave at some point.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not worried about that future of Apple. I think it will be,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, like when Steve Jobs left and then passed away, I think it will be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different without Johnny, but I think they’ll get along fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It won’t be the same. There will be new people. There might be some shake-ups here and there, but they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be okay. I hope we get him as long as we can because he seems really good at his job.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But when he has to leave the company at some point, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not worried for the company’s future.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, I’m not either, but I feel like as much time as they can hold out as possible, I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren think is better for everyone and for no other reason than for perception. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren like you said, I think the company will be fine. It’ll be different, but it’ll be fine. I think that they’ve gone through enough

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren transitions now where they know how not to do what happened in 85 or 86. They know how

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to manage things. But I also think, to a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren degree, I almost wonder how much we should read in directly

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to what they’re saying he’s going to be doing. I mean, handing off day-to-day managerial duties, I think that’s actually probably a good thing for

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren someone in his position. Let him have the kind of the final say and be the creative

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren infusion of a company. Let him kind of be the muse. But let other people

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren deal with the day-to-day bulk because honestly, at his position,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I don’t know how much of that stuff he should be really responsible for, how much of a micromanager he really needs to

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren be, and how much should just kind of come from his core vision of saying, this is where we wanna

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren go, these are our goals, these are the lines, these are our values. And if there are certain

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren projects wants to be really involved in, then help design that, but trust the people that

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren he’s hired and that he’s mentored to do their jobs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think you’re right. This does overall feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s going from a position of having a lot of work and way too much of it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a position of having less direct involvement. For somebody like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Johnny Ive, if anybody has ever worked with an artist before, a creative

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, it is very hard for creative artists to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco managing people all day and to be working in the same place for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a very, very long time. That’s a very hard thing for most creative people that I’ve ever known to do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, if he’s going to keep working there, I think he needs both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less of the kind of work he doesn’t care that much about, like managing things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and also, like, does he really need to be that involved in making the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next 15-inch MacBook Pro?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey You know, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making the next iMac? Does he care that much? Probably not. Do you really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need Johnny Ives’ genius to say, make the next Airport Extreme

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thinner? There’s a lot of things that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple does that are probably not interesting to him anymore. And that’s fine. he’s been there a very long

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time making a bunch of silver thin things and he can do other things. He

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren can do other things. Well, it’s also I think one of those things where he can do maybe the big iterations. So maybe he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren really involved with the design of the MacBook or the MacBook One as you call it. Or maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what they did with the thin, I guess what is it, the 2013 iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I know where they made it thin and gave it the bump, the hump in the back. Maybe he’s involved in those sorts of decisions, but he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren not really, the minor refreshes, not as involved in. So maybe he’s setting the tone, but not

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren having to be involved in each particular thing. I mean, I think you’re right. It’s like he’s designed a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren thin metal things or plastic colored things for Apple over the years.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Also, I mean, if they really are going to get into cars, if they’re going to get into auto, that’s a completely different… that’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to take… needs some overseeing in a completely different capacity.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren So I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know. you know, he also might need the distance. Like, he might need to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco based in the UK primarily and then only occasionally traveling to California

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just to prevent him from involving himself in too many things. Like, this very much might be like a saving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco himself from himself kind of thing, where it’s like, right now, if you read these profiles of him,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he is so intimately involved in every little detail of everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, I mean, and that’s always the challenge, right? Like, when you get promoted to something, is how

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren much whether you succeed or fail, and I’ve certainly failed in this respect in my past. I’ve tried to be better about it in the future,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren but giving things up and trusting others to do their job, it’s really hard

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren sometimes not to be able to let go. I think that the only way he can really let go is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren if he’s not there. So being in England, being with his family, I think probably

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren works better for him. Although I still imagine that these guys are for years going to be getting phone calls

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the middle of the night from him about some idea about a corner or how some sort of wedge is some sort of joint

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren is bothering him. I mean, I’m sure that’s not going to go away. But yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren think you’re right. I think that it almost it does make sense the travel aspect

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that yeah, you know, probably does need to have a little bit of distance because if he’s, you know, a

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren chauffeured car ride away from the office, it makes it really easy to go into

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the office all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I agree. Like he needs that distance to avoid more burnout

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and to force him to delegate things like what is the internal layout

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the cable inside the new MacBook that goes to the audio port. Like stuff like that. Like I’m sure he’s involved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in all of that stuff. External and internal stuff. Plus the kind of tables in the retail stores

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what the corner shape is on the icons. And not to mention that he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also has recently had the entire software UI placed on him. he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably I mean you know what someone forced all was was kicked out you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of the UI design fell on Johnny as well was it was it Alan Dye who ended up doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of that or is the other guy no it wasn’t how earth it was yeah it was Alan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Dye right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah so you know a lot of that fell on him but that was still under Johnny and Johnny was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still like the one who had to make the final call on these on a lot of these things I’m sure that’s not a small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco job that’s That’s like, this is not only all the little details of all the hardware and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chairs and everything in Apple, but also the entire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco UI of all of their software. That’s insane. Honestly, that should never have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been placed in the same person. And it wasn’t before Forstall’s ouster,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for good reason. So I don’t know if the idea of putting all this on Johnny was intended

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be temporary until they could build someone else up into the new Force doll or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether, actually I don’t know if Force doll was in charge of the UI, I should probably stop assuming that, I think he was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in charge of iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Regardless, whether Johnny was intended to keep that long term or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not, we don’t know, but that is so clearly so different from the hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it is good that the software design and hardware design teams

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are talking to each other and are involved and are generally near each other.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren They don’t need to be the same guy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I think they need to have a relationship and talk, but I would actually argue it’s probably better if it’s not the same person,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren because I think they’re very different disciplines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly, and I think a lot of the UI missteps we’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco since iOS 7 are because this UI needs to be treated differently than hardware, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in some cases it wasn’t. Basically, I think this change is all for the better. We’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see in time. But I think overall, I’m kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy, kind of relieved to see that they’re changing something because really, these profiles of Johnny just made it seem like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was just like seconds away from burning out and leaving.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steven McLaughlin Yeah, I agree. This makes me wonder a couple of things. First,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does this change how Apple perceives remote work? I suspect not. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know that they have establishments. Didn’t they they had or have a large group in Vancouver,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I believe they had or have a large group in, was it Pittsburgh? Is that right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Marco? Yeah, I think the iWork team was there for a while. There’s also there’s groups in, I think they’re forming a group

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in Seattle now, there’s a big group in Austin doing a bunch of store stuff. Like there’s, they really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a lot of satellite groups do but usually it’s like, you know, it’s not like one team

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be split across the country, like it’ll like they’ll like silo off certain things that can be easily

⏹️ ▶️ Marco siloed off, like I work and have them be in a different spot. Stuff like that, you know? But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not like the main core of OS X is being worked on by people all over the place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything like that. Things that can be easily siloed are.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. And this is me reaching a bit, but I see all these news reports about how San Francisco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey has gone from unaffordable to ha-ha. And that combined

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Johnny moving eight hours away, granted Johnny is a very unique and special snowflake,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I do not mean that sarcastically, so he gets a buy where other people wouldn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He can go anywhere. He could be in Antarctica, and they would make it work.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. But nevertheless, it makes me wonder, you know, is this going to potentially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey help open the door to splitting an individual team across multiple geographic locales?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I don’t know. I know a number, I know a couple of people who work on teams where they are remote, and the rest of their team is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren in Cupertino. But most people, I mean, I think that Apple as one of those companies that would prefer people to work together, especially if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren in the same department. I would agree with you more if they weren’t spending as much as they’re spending on their

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren canoe campus. It’s also important to note that, you know, I mean, they’re in Cupertino, and as expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren as San Francisco is, you can do okay, you can do modestly if you’re living, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren deeper in the valley and not in San Francisco proper.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, right. The other thing I wanted to ask, and I don’t know if there’s is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if there’s really an answer that we’re aware of since Johnny tends to be so private. But do we know what his

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other interests are? Like I didn’t know that he was really into timepieces until the Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey press push happened and went during I think it was in that New Yorker piece from February

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that they said that Johnny’s actually really into cars, specifically British cars. Yeah, he’s really into cars. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do we know what else he’s into? And the reason I ask this question is, you know, I’m thinking to myself, well, what else is there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for him to design? Because at least sitting here now, not as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the big dreamer, I can’t think of any consumer electronics, except of course the TV,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that he might want to design. So what’s left? I mean, there’s the car.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He’s a big fan of music. Is he? A lot of his friends are musicians, Chris Martin, Bono, those guys.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Maybe he designs his own guitar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I was just curious if there was anything that we knew that he was, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, hugely into running just for the sake of discussion, and now he wants to go, you know, moonlight with Nike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and design a running shoe or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren LW – Yeah, no, shoot, I mean, that’s actually probably an interesting thing to look at, is to see some of the projects

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren he’s done with his friend Mark Newsome before some of the things that they’ve auctioned off and some of their special

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren collaborations. That’s probably an interesting thing to look at. I don’t know. I mean, I would assume

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I know only what I’ve read about him, but it’s probably the same with at least friends of mine who are artists, is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that A lot of times their interest is what they want to design or things that are challenging. So

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it’s not so much their own personal interest as much as it is what’s an interesting design problem to solve.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin Fair enough. All right, any other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thoughts on Johnny? Tim Cynova Do you think that his white world will turn into a gray rainy world when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he moves to the UK? Steve McLaughlin Please email Mark up. Tim Cynova

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So we got through all the essential news for the week and we’re sort

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of running at a time. So, Christina, what would you like to talk about today?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Well, we could talk about Taylor Swift because she’s always a favorite topic of mine, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that the audience might explode.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would love to hear Marco talking about Taylor Swift. So you do you. Who? Shut

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey up, Marco. Don’t even. Don’t even.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’m not even going to entertain that.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey I’m not even going to entertain that. Of course you

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren know who she is. Forbes just named her the most powerful woman in business, and she is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know InfoSec Taylor Swift.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I do too. I’m in a group chat on Twitter with InfoSec Taylor Swift.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Ooh.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do we know who that is?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, we

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren don’t, but…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. I was asking the royal we, do we know who that is? And I’m assuming not.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren We know parts about who the person is, but we don’t have like an identity. Although I think that it’s out there.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’m not really sure. I mean, it’s… there are lots of rumors. It is not Neil Rawhouser. That

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren is not true. But yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is it Dan Lyons?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It is not Dan Lyons. It is not Dan Lyons, who I think apparently, this is a weird segue,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren his episode of Silicon Valley airs on Sunday, which I guess is interesting. Now, Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I know you’ve seen basically no movies ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco That’s basically correct.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Have you have you managed to see Fight Club, though?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Okay. All right. And Casey, obviously, you see movies, you’re someone plugged into pop culture. So clearly you’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Fight Club.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m marginally more plugged in the Marco, but yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would say I am marginally more plugged in. And I have seen Fight Club, although to be honest, I have not seen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in years.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Okay, well, shame on you, because it’s still an amazing movie. So shame on you, first of all. Second

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren of all, today, the first issue of the comic book, which is going

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to serve as the sequel to Fight Club, Fight Club 2, the first issue came out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s going to be a sequel to Fight Club?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah. Polnacek, the author, is writing, is debuting as a graphic novel first,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you know, comic book form, monthly issues, and then it’ll be put into a book. That’s crazy. It’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren crazy. So I used Dark Horse as the comic, I guess, publisher or whatever that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren doing it. So I’m going to have to pick up an actual physical copy just because.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren But I bought the digital copy today and read it on the train ride home, which was

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren lovely. But it’s kind of cool, though, to think about, like, I was thinking about how much tech

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren has changed and how much my life has changed when I saw Fight Club in the movie theater when I was 16 and 99,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren yeah, on a date with a boy.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He was a man, actually. He was like six years older

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than me.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey legal? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren goodness. In Georgia,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is taking a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren turn, kids.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, in Georgia, it was. Yeah, in Georgia, the age of consent is 16. So, yeah, we were friends. Oh, God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, it’s creepy, but legal. So it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren creepy but legal. Creepy but legal. He was older than my sister but it was… Oh, God. No, no, here’s where we

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren were screwed up. I told him I was a year older than I was. He told me he was a year younger than he was.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco So we

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey both thought

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren we were lying, but like whatever. Oh, it’s perfect. It was an on and off again dramatic relationship.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He then broke up with me the final time over voicemail while he owed me $300 because that’s a winner,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren folks. Yikes. No, it’s fine. I still fight club in the theater with him though. And

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren when I think about like 16-year-old me versus like 32-year-old me just how much has changed in the world,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren but let that the core message of the film still resonates It’s really interesting. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So is there a way to discuss the premise of Fight Club 2 without spoiling Fight

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Club 1? Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not, we can just sound the spoiler horn and people can get over

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it Honestly, I think we just sound the spoiler horn. The movie came out in 1999 Yeah. Like, honestly? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Rosebud is the name of the sled. Like, I’m sorry. There’s certain things. Like, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think the simple threshold is, if I’ve seen it, it’s safe to spoil.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Right. I agree. I was going to

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey say,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren if Marco has seen it, it’s like…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, if both of us have seen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, at that point, you have no excuses anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And also, our audience. I’ve got to think, this is the sort of audience you’ve seen Fight Club. It’s one of those

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren movies. But, I mean, the idea is basically that it’s 10 years after the events of Fight Club and what’s happening. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren basically Tyler comes back. Tyler being the narrator’s kind of split personality who’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren an anarchist. And I just read the first issue because that’s all that’s out. But it’s good.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It’s cool. It’s interesting that a sequel is happening that’s happening in comic book form.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And he’s also writing the screenplay for Lullaby, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren The adaptation is from one of his other books. And writing the graphic novel really helped him writing

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the screenplay, adapting his own work. So, because he came into

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren our office last week. That’s my way of humble bragging about that. And I, of course,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren fangirled the frack out. Like I was such a freaking fangirl, like I couldn’t even stand it.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren And I was the only one who asked a fan question, and he seemed almost relieved because everybody else was asking questions

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren like, oh, what do you think about this? And like more existential, like, writery questions. And I was like,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what is the deal with the Invisible Monsters movie? Is it ever going to happen? He’s like, I don’t know. And we had a long

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren talk about it. And I was like, this is amazing. And then I made things very

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren awkward because I forgot my paper books. So I had him sign

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren using a paint app. I had him sign a book cover on my iPad. He was

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey very confused by the whole process.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren But I’ve done that before. BJ Novak, who was a writer on The Office, he wrote a book of short

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren stories. And when he came into our office last year, I had him sign my iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren copy that way. And he thought it was awesome. He was like, this is great. Check, pull and check. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren so much. But I do have like his finger, you know, written like

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren digitally signed covers to my books. And then because I’m a super nerd, you guys will be the only people who appreciate

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren this. So basically what I do is I take like a screenshot of the cover on the Kindle and

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren then use the paint program to get rid of some of the superfluous like page marks

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and then had used the paint program with the you know a pen sort of thing to sign.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Save that as a PDF or PNG and then open up the basically

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren hack the Amazon the the Kendall DRM so that it’s like the pure like AZW

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren file or whatever and then switch out the cover image that

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren is included in the file with the cover image that has the autograph on it, then repackage

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren it, re-send it to, upload it to my Kindle Cloud account, which then means that all my devices

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren are synced and have the autographed copy as the front

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren cover of the e-book.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is a stunning amount of work to go through. With respect, you could have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey brought a physical book and a Sharpie and it probably would have done the trick. Well, here’s the thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren First of all, yes. And if I had remembered my first edition of Invisible Monsters, the world would be better

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and I would feel more comfortable. But that didn’t happen. And I wasn’t about to buy another print book that I don’t have room

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren for in my apartment because I do live in New York, keep in mind. My DVDs are taking up all my

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren space. They’re my children. I’m not getting rid of them. But the books

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren can burn, but the DVDs and Blu-rays are never dying. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could upload them, use a paint program to remove their covers, put them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren on your cloud account.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Have them sync over to your devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I know. But this way it’s just cool to see the autographed thing any time I go through my Kindle library. I

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren see the autographed cover. That’s what I’m saying. I mean, it was a pain in the ass. But after I did it one time, I was like, well, this isn’t that big

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren of a deal. I could script it if I wanted to. It could be an app that dozens of

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren us in history could use. Dozens

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco of

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren us.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco Dozens of us.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So you said the Fight Club 2, it’s happening monthly? Yeah. story. Okay, and you’re getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it on which app on your iDevices?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Dark Horse makes an app, so it’s not part of Comicology. They’re one of the big holdouts. So you go, you just Dark Horse

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Digital. And then I’m also, this is gonna be one that I’m gonna have to find a comic book store that is still

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren open when I leave the office, which are words I never thought I would say as an adult married person.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey thought we’d hear those on our show either.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren Right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Merlin and Moises are just rolling in excitement right now that somehow that this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably an elaborate troll on their part to get Marco and I to talk about comics. This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey took a turn I didn’t expect.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I mean, look, we could have a very in-depth discussion about Taylor Swift,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren but I don’t want to… I feel you guys would make fun of her too much, and I’m just really not prepared to deal with that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the reality is I have absolutely nothing bad to say about her because I have no idea

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about anything she does. And not because I’m willfully avoiding her.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren No, I understand.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am that oblivious to what goes on in modern life.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren She’s amazing. And that’s all you need to know. She’s incredible. She’s our generation’s Joni Mitchell. I’m not saying that she’s as good

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren as Joni at all. I’m saying she’s basically our Joni and damn it, that’s fine. Louie Mantan,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I had this discussion at XOXO and then proceeded to drunkenly run around

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the Panix offices and get people to tell us how they pronounce

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Everyone said GIF except for cable, which I took as a partial victory, but no,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I lost. I lost that work. Wait, you’re a GIF person? I am a GIF person.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well, that wraps up the show for this week. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this week, Fracture, MailRoute, and Backblaze. And Christina, since you aren’t mentioned in the song,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where can people find you?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren So you can find me on Twitter at film underscore girl or jirl. Oh, God.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Oh, my. You can find

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren me at Mashable where I’m a senior tech correspondent, which basically just means I do periscopes and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and occasionally write reviews. And you can listen to me on Rocket, a podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that also airs live at this time, with the fabulous Brianna Wu and Simone

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren de Rochefort, as well as a podcast called Overtired that I do with the amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and totally geektastic Brett Terpstra. And that podcast, you guys, the tagline is actually pretty brilliant.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It’s from Objective C to the OC, from Swift to Taylor Swift.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Nice. That’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren That’s seriously our tagline on our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s pretty awesome. And we should point out that in case it wasn’t clear, and in case you missed the beginning,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey our dear friend John Syracusa has been the guest on Rocket for this week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we will put links to that episode in the show notes. He’ll be back. Yeah, everything’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going back to normal next week, but you should definitely check out John on Rocket. I am genuinely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excited. I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren wait to hear.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I don’t even want to think about how that’s gonna go, because I’m sure it’s gonna be.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Simone and John, I’m really looking forward to that meeting of that culture clash.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’m super excited.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kind of hope that he found a way to do follow-up on your show. Oh, goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, thank you so much, Christina. Now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, oh it was accidental John

⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, oh it was accidental And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey T. Marco Armin,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Now here’s the real question for you, Marco. How do you take your chili?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I shouldn’t answer this.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Isn’t that like an Ohio thing? There’s like Ohio, Cincinnati styles of chili and like other styles of chili.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wait, what are the options? What are available options for how you take a chili?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, okay, I should clarify first of all that I like turkey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bacon. Not in my chili, but just in general, I like turkey bacon. More

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than pig bacon?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes. Weird. I quit the show. Right. And so this is why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I shouldn’t be asked about foods that people hold dear. Like bacon?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, I’m not really, I don’t care anything about that sort of thing. I’m just saying, aren’t there, in Ohio, isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren there an Ohio way, Cincinnati way of having chili where it’s on top of spaghetti and there’s all sorts

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren of weird stuff on it where it’s a different sort of meal than here, chili is in a bowl.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think that’s mostly Cincinnati, where I’ve never actually been.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren Okay, well

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren never mind. This concludes Christina’s knowledge of the state of Ohio.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Columbus is much more about the ranch dressing, which I think that has traveled further now. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco now, if you go to Columbus, whenever I’d go home and visit my mom when she lived there still,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would always be surprised in restaurants by how, first of all, everything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got was tremendous by New York standards, by any standards. Any food you ordered, any drink

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you ordered, the drinks would come in these 40-ounce plastic diner cups, just regular drinks, water,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything would come. The biggest things possible and everything would be covered in Ranx

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dressing. If you ordered something that included dressing, I ordered a… I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last visit there before she moved out I ordered a like Greek salad wrap or something and the wrap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it was like the like the Steve Jobs iPod dropping the fish tank story there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no air in the wrap every gap was filled with dressing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so like I’ve been into it and the bottom fill out and just like dressing just poured out like it was oh my god it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey was crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so to answer your original question I have not had a lot of different kinds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of chili. The chili I’ve had I like, but I don’t have a strong opinion on it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and one of my favorite chilis is actually vegetarian. So I also like turkey bacon,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can’t get over that you prefer turkey bacon to pig bacon. This is a genuine travesty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my world.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not all turkey bacon. I’ve had a lot of, like, most of the turkey bacon varieties I have tried have been awful,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the Oscar Mayer one is really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey world is upside down. Having Christina on the show, no big deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Right, but Marco eating turkey bacon.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, unacceptable. It’s bizarre. Oh, we’re gonna get way more nasty feedback on that.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren As

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco you should, frankly, I mean, because

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren how can you even call it a bacon if it’s from a turkey and not from a pig? I mean, what the hell? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey pork is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren what… I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, now you’ve pissed off both of us. I hope you’re happy.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I think I’m gonna have to have, like, some shells and cheese or something to get over this, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have a recommendation for you if you’d like to know. Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also, I’m a big fan of, I think it’s Amy’s canned chili. It’s like, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s even vegan. It’s a canned chili that’s definitely vegetarian. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I like it, I don’t like, chili in a can, it works great. It’s a great kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco food for cans. It’s great to have in the cabinet for when it’s snowing and you don’t want to go out and get lungs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or whatever. It’s great. I’m not a huge fan of eating canned meat. That’s just that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems wrong to me. I don’t I don’t like to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so Vegetable chili is great for that now in the mac and cheese discussion Casey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey mm-hmm

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I I think Mike’s description of it was accurate. Oh, I would agree with that actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco however I I agree I agree that it does taste good for a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a certain definition of good It is total plastic garbage right, but it is good plastic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco garbage. I can agree with that

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that. Yeah, no, that’s fine. Yeah, no, I like it. I have to admit my favorite mac and cheese in the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren entire world is just the Kraft Blue Box.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, see, I’ve had the Kraft Blue Box very recently, in the last couple of weeks, maybe a month.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And to me, I find it to be completely tasteless. I find it to be completely bland.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’ve got to be the crazy one here because everyone seems to think that Kraft

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mac and cheese, or I think they call it Kraft dinner in crazy places like Australia.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, Kraft Dinner in Canada. Canada, they call it Kraft Dinner.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, it’s a Canadian? Oh, I thought it was an Australian

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren It might be an Australian thing, too, but they definitely call it Kraft Dinner in Canada. In fact, there’s even a reference to it in the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren If I Had a Million Dollars song by the Barenaked Ladies.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren We wouldn’t have to eat Kraft Dinner, but we still would.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I never realized that. Good call. So yeah, so a lot of people, or most people, swear that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Kraft Dinner is where it’s at. I find it to be completely, completely bland.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Really? You didn’t grow up eating it as a kid? Because as a kid, that was what I grew up eating. I loved it. I still

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren love it. It is my favorite. Like, Easy Mac is the Kraft Dinner sort of variant, although, you know, it’s Easy Mac, so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren really not as good or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever. Let me be clear. I will eat the sh** out of some Kraft Dinner. I’m just saying if I had a choice,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would definitely take Velveeta.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren The Velveeta. You would do the shells and cheese. Yeah, I would definitely do the Kraft Dinner over the shells and cheese, although I’ll do both. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I have no problem with either one. But for me, there’s almost nothing better than

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Blue Box Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, the $1.19 of the box. It’s amazing. Mike McDonald

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This show has taken such a turn. I think it all started with me. Anna Avery

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey It really has. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and whenever I say this, people get horrified. And I’m like, yeah, I have the palate of a six-year-old. It’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mike McDonald Well, hey, that stuff is good. Anna Avery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren It is good,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? Mike McDonald So we now make macaroni and cheese for our three-year-old on a semi-regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basis. We get the fancy organic Annie’s whatever, whatever. It’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same thing, you know? And I always snack out of the pot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after I’ve made it because it’s really good when it’s fresh. And Tiff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I both, neither of us really want to admit to each other how much we’ve eaten when this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happens. But we both eat a good amount of it because it’s just really good. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does not reheat well at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey No.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Even our toddler, he will barely ever touch reheated macaroni and cheese, even though we always try the next day. we always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco try but it’s like between the three of us we can easily finish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off a box without without Tiff or I intending to have eaten much of it like as Adam can eat about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco half a box already which is impressive for somebody who’s three and like 30 pounds or something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that’s pretty good but yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Christina Warren if you put

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren hot dogs in it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah as a kid yeah I mean he doesn’t eat him yet but I have definitely not only have I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have I do that a lot as a kid but I have had that meal as an adult for dinner before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not judging you on that one.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I had that for Thanksgiving one year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nice, nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I don’t do Thanksgiving food, so my dad always makes me a steak every year, and then I have the different type of mashed

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren potatoes because I don’t like the mashed potato casserole. I’m the pain in the ass child that has to have different dinner. When I was

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren little, my parents thought I’d just grow out of it, so they would be satisfied with me eating bread and cranberry

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren sauce. Then as I got older, they were like, this is getting stupid. We’ll just make you a steak. One year I went

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to visit my then boyfriend and his family in Seattle and

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren he made me mac and cheese with hot dogs cut up in it and it was amazing. That and wine. And the rest of the family just kind of looked

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren at me and they’re like, yeah, great girl you got there, Eric.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You had mac and cheese with hot dogs and wine? Yeah. That’s awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Right? That was my Thanksgiving.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is pretty ridiculous. Oh, that is fantastic. Well, you know, with Thanksgiving, the turkey, filling up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on turkey is kind of an amateur move on Thanksgiving because usually everything else that you have on Thanksgiving is better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the turkey, even if you have really good turkey. It just so happens that side dishes on Thanksgiving are amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And most people don’t have really good turkey, so it’s even worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, let me kind of segue this into a slightly different topic. Out of curiosity,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, when you’re going back to Columbus, which I know you said you don’t really do anymore, but let’s say hypothetically you’re going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tomorrow to Columbus, what is the first food item that you’re going to seek

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do I have to eat anything while I’m there?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But yeah, I’m saying like you’re in Columbus, you want something that reminds you of home, that reminds you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like something that maybe you can’t get in New York or that you just miss.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He’s like, do you go straight to Steak and Shake or whatever?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, yeah, Steak and Shake is a good choice because you can’t really get that around here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I don’t think I’ve ever been.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it’s great. You gotta go to Steak and Shake at the Frisco Melt, that’s it, and a shake.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The Frisco Melt is in San Francisco?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Yeah, so it’s like a sourdough bread and then it’s like a patty melt with sourdough bread.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep. Jesus, what do you not know, Christina? Oh, God, you’re killing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren me. I know my fast food. Nah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you know the important stuff. Tiff and I, when we were in college in Pennsylvania, they didn’t, at the time, they didn’t have any

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Steak and Shakes in Pennsylvania. I don’t know if they do now. But they did have them all over Ohio.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we were in Pennsylvania only about 15 miles from the Ohio border.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So on a couple of occasions, we did like a special night out where we would just drive to Ohio to go to Steak and Shake.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey special night out to Steak and Shake. That’s so delightfully awful. And I am one of those people that would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have done the same thing if I were in your shoes.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Look, at this point in my life, like living in New York, like, there is a Denny’s now downtown, which is

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren great. But I’ve seriously considered taking an Uber to like, Jersey

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren to go to Red Lobster or to go to Sonic.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren serious, because sometimes I just really miss chain food. And I thought about this as a startup idea. Chain seafood?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Well, look, the Cheddar B biscuits are amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Amen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren So

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren the Cheddar B biscuits are amazing. And the thing is, yes, there’s a red lobster in Times Square, but hey, they automatically charge

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren you a ridiculous gratuity charge, even if it’s two of you, because people in tourists don’t tip. I get

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren that, whatever. B, the surface is mediocre. C, it’s even for red lobsters, like whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, Christina, if you were going back to Atlanta, you’re obviously getting Chick-fil-A. What else are you going to get?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I love Arby’s. So Chick-fil-A is the first one. Arby’s. Sonic sometimes, because like Like they have the tater

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tots. Oh, I love Sonic. Sonic is my jam.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren They

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren have the tater tots. Yeah. So my startup idea, like I think that especially with this frothy is all the time it

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren is, I think I could get funding for this. So my idea is and people are like, oh, just use Postmates. I’m like, yeah, it’ll be cold by the time the food gets

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren there. What if you had a service like basically aimed at like the big cities where you don’t have a lot of the chain restaurants?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren So basically I’m thinking New York is like your primary or sole market where you have people who get together

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren and like get an Uber, like a group Uber and go to the suburbs and

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey Wait,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that a Gruber?

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Basically, get a Gruber and go to a fast food place, eat, and then come back. And you split the cost

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren of the ride with everyone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would so rock that. I would definitely do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren You have a car, Marco, so for you, you’re like, whatever, I can just go someplace. But for those of us who don’t have cars and who

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren live in the city or in Brooklyn, who sometimes want the finer things in life,

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren going to New Jersey on your own for a fast food expedition is silly. And yes, one time

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I did take the Staten Island Ferry to get a Dairy Queen.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I’m only partially embarrassed by that. And now there’s one in Union Square, so that I’d never

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren have to do it again. But if I didn’t have to do those things, if I could just go to the suburbs with a

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren group of people and eat my Arby’s, or, well, now there’s a Denny’s in

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Fight Eye, so I don’t have to do that, but go to my chain restaurants, I would love that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, see if I’m going, so for me, home is New York, it’s New York area, maybe not New York

⏹️ ▶️ Casey City specifically, but you know, I went to high school in Western Connecticut. My parents are from Mount Vernon and Newburgh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is upstate no matter how you slice it to you guys. But if I’m going back to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey New York area, first thing I’m doing is getting some pizza and the second thing I’m doing is getting some bagels and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I miss both of those dearly. I’m a particular fan of John’s of Bleeker Street. That’s my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey personal favorite. I love John’s. actually recently by way of browbeating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Matt Panzerino for like three years about it, I convinced him to go to John’s Obliquer. And as far as I know, that was a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey positive experience for him. If you’re ever going to New York, definitely go to John’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Obliquer. In my personal opinion as a non-New York resident, it is unbelievably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great pizza. And obviously, bagels anywhere near the city are just fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s what I miss when I go back to the Northeast. We have some reasonable substitute bagels and some reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey substitute pizza. Not that it keeps me from going insane, but it is by no means an equivalent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to what’s in New York. What other terrible things do we need to discuss while John isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here? We can talk about Windows. He really hates Windows.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Coding Explorer is recommending we talk about file systems. I’ll hard pass on that, thanks.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I was going to, well, come on. You guys, don’t we want to like talk about like the virtues of ZFS versus HFS

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren Plus again? Because I mean, I really don’t think that’s been done to death enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Marco Well, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was thinking, I mean, you know, unless anybody says otherwise, I think HFS Plus is fine. What do you guys think?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s good for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren No, I think it’s fine. I mean, I think that, look, data redundancy isn’t that important.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren I mean, you know, like everything’s back in the cloud anyway. Everything’s back in the cloud anyway, so who really cares? I mean, is all I’m saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Oh, God. I guess that’s the ATP final word on that topic. It’s all over.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’d never have to do it again. Oh, God, he’s going to kill us. He’s going to be so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Christina Warren angry.

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren He would totally kill. I’m sorry, John. I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist. I am a fan of the

⏹️ ▶️ Christina Warren, Casey show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, goodness.