Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

109: Bigger in the Pocket

MacBook follow-up, Tim Cook and the Edition, battery anxiety, and learning to appreciate the iPhone 6 Plus.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, is there anything we need to talk about other than the fact the show is gonna be all follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ John the things the other Things we have to talk about what is it like Apple TV and all that business that’ll keep because it’s all just rumors

⏹️ ▶️ John So we should just get if we just end up doing follow-up and stuff. That’s fine Nintendo

⏹️ ▶️ John and I think that will keep too I think because also nothing is happening in there It’s just an announcement, but we’ll get to one of

⏹️ ▶️ John those Well, don’t worry about is what I’m saying because all the other stuff that we think is news news isn’t really news It’s all just

⏹️ ▶️ John future news

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How does Nintendo basically get bought by the world and we don’t talk about it this week? Get bought by the world?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean they’re basically selling out like they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like they’re admitting defeat. The reason I said it’ll keep is because it’s a press

⏹️ ▶️ John release and an announcement it’s not a thing a product you know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it signifies something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah I know but I’m saying is it will keep if we talk about it next week nothing new will have happened

⏹️ ▶️ John between this week and next week related to that story. It’s not as if. Anyway, we’ll get to it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our entire podcast this week should be discussing like this, like before we’re actually going to say anything about a topic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just talking about what we’re not going to say and what we’re going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John to say. Doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John matter. We go in order.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We go from top to bottom. Oh, God. Follow forward. Follow up. Follow out. Follow in. Follow casting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We have a lot of follow up today, and it starts with our tipster having a compatriot. This compatriot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said, back to the hub. This was in the middle of an email. It’s real and it’s coming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just not as soon as the tips are thought. It’ll probably come when the MacBook Pros are announced, whenever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that may be.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, so the 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro has not been updated yet for Broadwell and does not have the four-stacks trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet. Presumably, it will be updated sometime later this year, possibly this summer,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because right now the only reason it wasn’t updated yet, as far as we know, is because the quad-core Broadwell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chips aren’t actually out from Intel yet. My question on this device

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is whether they’re going to actually just skip that entirely and wait for Skylake. Because if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Skylake is on schedule, which it theoretically is, then Skylake

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quad-core chips can’t be that much further off. And with the Skylake chipset, not only do you get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco faster CPU performance, but you also get new RAM types. And the big thing would be you get Thunderbolt 3.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then that means you could drive a 5K external display if there was one.

⏹️ ▶️ John Saying this is the curse of the pro suffix that machines that have a pro suffix eventually skip Intel chip generations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, yeah, well what Intel messes up their entire consumer lineup for an entire year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That yeah, I mean it Intel always messes up and delays the Xeon That’s no big deal. And in fact, there are new Xeons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the Mac Pro and Apple’s not using them They’re skipping a Xeon generation. I don’t know why but they are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But yeah for the MacBook Pro, I would expect 15-inch to be this summer with either Broadwell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Skylake, the timing works out that if they if they can wait until probably late summer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they can get Skylake and that would certainly be a better update.

⏹️ ▶️ John But as you said Intel is very often late-ish with their… so

⏹️ ▶️ John like don’t you think the Skylake will inevitably be a little bit later than we think it’s going to be as well?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well the the issue with Broadwell was the die shrink and getting the 14 nanometer process

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have usable yields. But Skylake is a microarchitecture chain, so it’s not related

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the yield issue. So Intel is claiming, and they’re still claiming this even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recently, they are claiming that even though Broadwell was extremely late, that Skylake will actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not be late. Which means Skylake is shipping in the second half of this year. Could be. Like Broadwell is actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco intentionally going to be a really short generation. So the only question is, what you know, what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does Apple and what are the other PC manufacturers do with that they actually make Broadwell products in mass or do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they just make a handful like what Apple has done and wait until Skylake for their for their higher

⏹️ ▶️ Marco end stuff or it’ll make more of a difference. And I think if Thunderbolt 3 is right around the corner, it would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunate to have a 15 inch MacBook Pro update, like months before you can get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thunderbolt 3 chipsets.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re assuming they’ll Thunderbolt ports on them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think they would. This new tipster, the friend of the tipster, says that the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey updated Pros will have more than one port. Now that does not by necessity mean it will have Thunderbolt,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of course, but apparently there will be at least more than one, John, and so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can finally relax and be happy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the context of that was it will have more than one USB-C port. The number

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of other ports was not specified, but I’m thinking Thunderbolt is not dead.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m thinking Thunderbolt continues on much like Firewire 800 did for so long, because it continues on in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high-end products, where, like, the typical things people would plug a drive into a laptop for,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t really need Thunderbolt for most people’s needs. So it’s fine if the low-end laptops don’t have Thunderbolt anymore,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not a huge deal, especially something like this Ultra Portable. And keep in mind, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new Airs still do, you can still get an 11 and 13-inch Air, or a 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt. So it still goes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down to the 11 inch air. I mean, that’s a pretty, that’s pretty good coverage right there. So anyway, Thunderbolt is fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s, it’ll be here for a long time. So it is still worth it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially once you, especially considering like the high end stuff, like the Mac Pro and everything. It is still worth it for Apple to invest in Thunderbolt,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to support it fully, and to issue Thunderbolt 3 when it comes

⏹️ ▶️ John out. I don’t remember seeing this email. I didn’t put it in the followup and people in the chat room were

⏹️ ▶️ John complaining about this. And I agree with the complaints. Why, what is the, where does this come from? Why

⏹️ ▶️ John is it, does it get to be in the follow up? Why do we believe this person?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just thought it was interesting that somebody else apparently tried to double down on behalf of the original person.

⏹️ ▶️ John I could have written this email.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to start doing that. I’m going to start writing stuff, writing plausible things into our email form and see

⏹️ ▶️ John if you two are suckered into putting it into the show notes. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John already done that and I’ll reveal it in a year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is a long, long troll. But yeah, if that would make you happy, John, to ruin your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey own show, feel free. The tipster’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole time. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly. All right, what are we moving on to? Oh, see, this

⏹️ ▶️ John was out of order. We should have started with this top one because the top one was a accidental neutral

⏹️ ▶️ John follow-up. We’re talking about the Apple Watch and the potential for it to gain

⏹️ ▶️ John value as a sort of collectible piece of electronics like the, I

⏹️ ▶️ John tweeted about this and I almost tweeted the wrong thing and now I can only remember the wrong thing. It’s not summer games. it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John sports championship, someone in the chat room will tell me. That super rare NES cart that goes

⏹️ ▶️ John for a lot of money these days that starts with the letter S, I think it’s sports champions, or

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe it’s the Nintendo World Champion cart. Anyway, if you got an original Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John and especially as Marco pointed out, if they don’t make any more of the original, not original Apple Watch, original Apple Watch

⏹️ ▶️ John edition, and they don’t make any more of these gold ones after that, which seems unlikely to me, but hey, it could happen,

⏹️ ▶️ John then it could be worth more than you paid for it in the somewhat distant future purely based on its

⏹️ ▶️ John rarity. Nintendo World Championships, the chat room says, is that rare card.

⏹️ ▶️ John So anyway, one of the things I threw out there related to that is say, you know, very expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John sports cars that they only make a few of. Like if you had bought the McLaren F1, I said it was really expensive, but now it goes

⏹️ ▶️ John for a lot more than you would have paid for it. And I threw out some numbers. I think I threw out like 250 grand

⏹️ ▶️ John and now they’re like in the millions or something. And I was way off. I think I was going

⏹️ ▶️ John for the 250 or maybe 232 because I was thinking of the max speed of the McLaren F1 from back in the day.

⏹️ ▶️ John But TBI Rally Sport on Twitter gave

⏹️ ▶️ John us the correct numbers. The McLaren F1 was originally 960K, so not cheap because that was in what, 1990 something

⏹️ ▶️ John dollars? And they currently go for around 10 million

⏹️ ▶️ John now. And I recently saw a white one, the only white McLaren F1 ever made

⏹️ ▶️ John going for 14 million. So if you had invested a million dollars in a McLaren F1 in the 90s, you would

⏹️ ▶️ John have got a 10X return on your investment if it didn’t kill you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not sure I would take that deal. Like buy a white car for 10 years and then sell it. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John know.

⏹️ ▶️ John That was the only white one. It’s all about rarity. Yeah. Not the pony.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s a reason they only made one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know you’re trying to mess with me, but there is a reason they only made one. It’s that it looks terrible. It doesn’t look

⏹️ ▶️ John that bad. I mean, it is generally a nice looking car. It’s a couple of awkward things about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Like the rear overhang is really small. So it kind of looks clipped in that way. But yeah, like I said, you get the car in white.

⏹️ ▶️ John If it’s a really nice shape, it could still look good. McLaren F1 almost pulls it off.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Almost. I don’t know. It does not look great in my personal estimation. And according to Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I like everything that is white

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, you just happened to have bought all of your cars in white. And each time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just kind of happened to you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. The only time, there are two times I have bought cars on my own.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And one time it was deliberate, one time it was not. Everything else, it was a hand-me-down.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Marco, you had something from Ed Ryan.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, last week we talked about Bluetooth headphones. And we were talking in the context

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Apple eliminating the headphone jack from their stuff eventually, and switching over to requiring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bluetooth headphones for everything and what that would mean. My main complaints about it were that of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not only complexity, but also battery life. And then you have this other thing that has to be charged and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We got a lot of good feedback on this. Some of it came from the hearing aid world, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have a similar set of problems with hearing aids of you want to make something as small as possible that can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pump sound into your ears, but that also has good battery life. And hearing aids

⏹️ ▶️ Marco manage pretty impressive battery life these days, especially the high-end ones. But there are, from what I understand, some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty substantial costs associated with that. I don’t know much more about it than that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it seems like that might be an indicator of what’s possible in the not necessarily close future,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but what is possible with the cutting edge battery technology and miniaturization of headphone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco type things. But a number of other issues were pointed out specifically about Bluetooth headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The biggest one, which I had totally forgotten about, is latency. A lot of Bluetooth headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it seems like this might differ per model or maybe per application or something. This seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s inconsistent. I’ve seen this myself, where it’s better or worse with some.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Latency is a big problem when you’re watching videos, or of course anything that requires

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really up-to-date sound to match what’s on screen, there to be no latency or inaudibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco short latency. I have found with all the Bluetooth headphones I’ve tried, when I did a little roundup with it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with I think four or five of them, I found the latency was noticeably bad on all of them enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that playing a video on an iPhone, I didn’t try it on a Mac, but playing a video from an iPhone was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just unbearably annoying because the latency was extremely noticeable. So you know, it was out of sync,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the audio was out of sync with the video.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would just like to put it on record that I use really cheap, really crappy Bluetooth headphones with my Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey every, for nine hours a day, five days a week, and I have never noticed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any latency issues. And these are not fancy headphones. They are made by a brand called Arctic, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve never heard of before. I’ve never bought any of their other products. And either

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of two things is true, either the latency on these just happens to be wonderful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in short or I’m just not picky enough to notice. And if it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey latter, then let this be a lesson, kids, that being fussy about headphones and coffee and about everything else

⏹️ ▶️ Casey under the sun maybe isn’t the best thing in the world. Anyway, carry on, Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, and by the way, as I said last week, I use Bluetooth headphones when I’m walking. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco listen to podcasts on them. fantastic and for in that context they’re way better than wired headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love them. I use the Sennheiser PX I think it’s the 120

⏹️ ▶️ Marco BTL into in the show notes it’s like a hundred bucks and they’re great. They sound like complete garbage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for music and a lot by the way a lot of people are saying Bluetooth audio because it uses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lossy compression codecs there’s a lot of arguments that Bluetooth headphones sound bad because they’re Bluetooth.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve I’ve tested, in the ones I’ve tested, most of them offer the ability to plug in a cable. So I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tested them in both modes, cable mode, direct, and Bluetooth mode. And they sound equally bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in both modes. So the reason they sound bad is not because they’re Bluetooth necessarily, it’s because they’re bad headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it is possible to make decent sounding Bluetooth headphones. Now, a lot of people say, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these new headphones support aptX, this new codec, aptX, I don’t know if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s pronounced aptX, but that’s how I say it. The problem is that iPhones don’t support AptX. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I see these Amazon reviews of these headphones that say, these new headphones support AptX, and it sounds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great for my iPhone. It’s way better than the previous headphones. Well, they might sound better, but it’s not because of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the AptX codec, because if you’re using them on an iPhone, AptX is not being used.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All that being said, we got a very good email from Josh DeLioncourt,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at Lioncourt on Twitter. And Josh says, one other use case that wasn’t mentioned in your discussion,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco perhaps should have been is that of voiceover users. I’m a writer and developer. I spend virtually all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco day on my Macbook, iPad, and iPhone plugged into headphones. Bluetooth not only comes with the battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issue which is compounded by constant use by voiceover users, but also in my experience, latency.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s tough enough that a voiceover user must listen to everything. Even the slightest amount of latency in audio can lead to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frustration and disruption of productivity. I’d imagine this is very analogous to when Tux’s UI suffers from lag.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, that I could definitely see why that would be a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so we should at least briefly touch on the Apple Watch Edition

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pricing. There’s been a lot of chatter that Tim Cook

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was perhaps embarrassed about the price of the watch. It didn’t show up on any slides and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he kind of just said, oh yeah, and it’s $10,000. So anyway. Now there will be limited quantities

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the Apple Watch Edition.

⏹️ ▶️ John It is priced from $10,000 and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it will be available in select retail stores. The Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Watch Edition is the most beautiful expression

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the Apple Watch. So there’s an article in the show notes that I did not read

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I’m assuming John you put it here?

⏹️ ▶️ John I did. I don’t remember what’s in this article. I didn’t open it in one of my tabs. I’m sorry. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John you did and you lost it. I opened up the tabs right before the show and close them all after the show,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey as you well

⏹️ ▶️ John know.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John I remember hearing about this before I saw the presentation because I didn’t watch it live. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so I knew to pay attention during sort of that section of the thing to see if these articles that

⏹️ ▶️ John I had heard about were on the nose. And there’s two things I noted about Tim Cook

⏹️ ▶️ John and the Apple watch edition, the pricing thing and the presentation. One, he made a

⏹️ ▶️ John comment earlier in the presentation, I believe when they were doing the health section about his heart rate,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, sort of doing the jokey kind of thing that I guess I’m not gonna say non

⏹️ ▶️ John professional, but like, less experienced public speakers, or maybe Yeah, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John so, like, less experienced public speakers will add something to their presentation that acknowledges the fact that they’re nervous

⏹️ ▶️ John to sort of, you know, cut the tension to get the audience on their side and to relax them and to just sort

⏹️ ▶️ John of go forward together so we don’t have to so it’s not awkward, right? Tim Cook did that in this presentation when

⏹️ ▶️ John he was showing the heart rate thing is like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can even check your heart rate. And

⏹️ ▶️ John this is clearly not mine at this point in time. This is not

⏹️ ▶️ John Tim Cook’s first presentation. We assume that there’s some baseline level of nervousness that everyone feels when they’re doing a big important

⏹️ ▶️ John presentation. We assume they’re all nervous about things. But if he was gonna be nervous about something, you would think

⏹️ ▶️ John he would be nervous about the revealing of the Apple Watch and not

⏹️ ▶️ John this presentation. So what I was thinking about is, all right, what is it about this presentation, which really

⏹️ ▶️ John is just going over stuff we already knew and adding detail to the Apple Watch, what is he nervous about in this one.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that ties into when he got to the Apple Watch edition, and he has to say, the Apple Watch edition

⏹️ ▶️ John starts at $10,000 simply available and select blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John ate those words, like he didn’t look down at his shoes and mumbled them, but he might as well have like, he

⏹️ ▶️ John was not, he did not muster up a bunch of fake enthusiasm saying the Apple Audition is really

⏹️ ▶️ John great. It’s It’s available starting at $10,000 and it was low key.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was no slide, there wasn’t a lot of time given to it. He didn’t have a lot of enthusiasm for the announcement.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is that what he was talking about with his heart right now? I’m sure he’s nervous when he does all his presentations is maybe it’s not a natural

⏹️ ▶️ John thing for him. Maybe they’re not connected, but whether they’re connected or not, the way the

⏹️ ▶️ John pricing of the Apple Watch Edition was dealt with in that presentation, at the very least shows that

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple thinks that the audience it was communicating to

⏹️ ▶️ John in that keynote is not really the same audience that’s going to buy this watch. The information has to get out there.

⏹️ ▶️ John It has to be in the press and so on and so forth. But it’s a different

⏹️ ▶️ John set of people. It’s not the tech press that was invited to this thing, although I’m sure they invited all the fashion people and everything as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John It just, I put it in the things, was Tim Cook embarrassed about the 10K watch? I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John if he was embarrassed, but he definitely didn’t seem as excited

⏹️ ▶️ John about the Apple Watch Edition at its price as he was about other things. And I guess what you

⏹️ ▶️ John could do is make a little clip and say, let’s show him saying the Apple Watch starts at $349.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does he say that with more or less enthusiasm? Maybe he always says pricing in a boring way and that’s all he had to say about the edition.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. But to me, it seemed like

⏹️ ▶️ John this product does not sit comfortably in the same sort

⏹️ ▶️ John Keynote presentation style that we’re accustomed to from Apple and that it is as in so many other

⏹️ ▶️ John things that it needs some other venue in the same way that it’s gonna need some other venue for sales like

⏹️ ▶️ John select stores a special room they go to different kind of treatment from the

⏹️ ▶️ John people selling you the watch like the different box that it comes in like everything about it

⏹️ ▶️ John is different from other Apple products and I don’t know that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you guys notice that when you’re watching this presentation? Because it really stood out to me. I was primed to look for it, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I noticed it, but I wouldn’t say it was loud, so to speak.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a poor choice of words in this context. It wasn’t the sort of thing that knocked me off my chair.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I did notice he seemed to kind of brush by it quickly. I don’t know, Marco, what did you think?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Basically just that. That it very clearly, that he rushed through

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. It was not, I don’t think it was necessarily nervousness,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t think it was necessarily him not being excited about it. You know, that’s just his style of speaking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think he really just rushed through it, and that part was intentional, that they did not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to really spend a lot of time on that. Because you could tell, you know, there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was a good discussion about this on the talk show last week with Gruber and Matthew Panzarino.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They kind of think that maybe there’s some debate inside the company about whether this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco should even exist. Certainly it’s uncharted territory for the company.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think in order to try to minimize how much this would alienate their existing customer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco base or most of their customer base that is not buying this thing and that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t or at least won’t buy it, I think in order to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just minimize the alienation there and minimize the appearance of being this new snobby company,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s why they didn’t give a lot of time. I don’t think it necessarily reflects what Tim thinks about it or whether Tim

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was nervous about it. I think it’s really just about just making sure that it wasn’t distracting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the other parts of the presentation, like the other prices being pretty reasonable.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what he could possibly, in theory, be nervous about, like the idea that the entire conversation about this product that he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John clearly very excited about could get derailed talking about this one low-volume version of this product.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that ties into the other sort of vague rumor story narrative, the idea that

⏹️ ▶️ John Johnny I really likes expensive watches. Mark Newsome really likes expensive watches and

⏹️ ▶️ John as sort of a perk to the two of them to or a perk to Johnny essentially saying

⏹️ ▶️ John stay with Apple make this watch for us. We’ll let you make a ridiculously expensive one because we know you really like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it may seem silly that personal considerations like that if they’re even true. Like again, we don’t know. all

⏹️ ▶️ John just rumors, right? But imagining for a second that this was the case that

⏹️ ▶️ John Johnny I really likes expensive watches. The idea that the world’s biggest company would do

⏹️ ▶️ John something like have a special low volume version of its product to satisfy

⏹️ ▶️ John the person designing the product seems crazy and weird just because it seems like

⏹️ ▶️ John are the whims of this one person dictating entire product line by Apple. But it’s not weird. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John when Steve Jobs was alive, whims of an of an even more mercurial as they

⏹️ ▶️ John used to say back in the 80s person was dictating the whims of the world’s biggest company. So

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s that’s the way people work. That’s the way people deal with each other. I don’t think it’s it’s out of the question

⏹️ ▶️ John that, you know, I haven’t listened to that episode of talk show yet, but like that there could be an internal debate

⏹️ ▶️ John about what kind of company does Apple want to be this? Why? How is this product different from $10,000

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac Pro? Well, it’s different these ways and that way, you know, like we talked about all these things before, right? I can imagine that

⏹️ ▶️ John same conversation going on inside the company. And I can also imagine, uh, ending

⏹️ ▶️ John up in the current situation where they make a $10,000 gold watch because, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John one faction of the company really likes $10,000 gold watches. Yeah. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. It would, I mean, John Johnny is worth keeping around. So it, if anyone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could pull it off, it’d be him, but it’s weird. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, I don’t think it’s like just to satisfy him, but like, you know, this it’s a if there is a multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John factions in the inside the company among the decision makers it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John reasonable to think that that you know the side that one could include

⏹️ ▶️ John a very important person like Johnny I was into that or maybe that’s what it took to get Mark Newsome to come to the company and Johnny really wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John Mark to come like anyway you can make up all sorts of stories about this but like it I think it’s notable

⏹️ ▶️ John in that I can’t remember the last time. Unless unless a product is something like

⏹️ ▶️ John a compromise or sort of a boring product or not interesting thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John then they gloss over it or maybe it doesn’t even make it to the keynote like the new Mac Pro that wasn’t really new and stuff like that. Yeah, that

⏹️ ▶️ John expect right and everything’s done but this is like the top of the top of the line fanciest

⏹️ ▶️ John version of the product that Apple is just super excited about right and so it’s weird for this one to be like

⏹️ ▶️ John oh and by the way, this is the watch edition is for rich people $10,000. Never mind. Right. That was weird.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I think it just it just shows how much the addition really is, I think, an experiment

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Apple. You know, I don’t I don’t think when they initially conceive the watch that they’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all right, we’re gonna have three versions, you know, cheap, normal and gold. Like, I don’t think it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco went like

⏹️ ▶️ John that. Well, I think I mean, as a monk been to the chamber is pointing out, like we were talking about the watch, if they decide

⏹️ ▶️ John to make a watch, they have to have the conversation about how is this different than everything else we made. How does

⏹️ ▶️ John how do our products change once we ask people to wear them and no putting an iPod shuffler on your neck doesn’t count right?

⏹️ ▶️ John How does it change? We, we have to address it differently. And if you’re going to make a watch, and

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re not going to sell $10 plastic watches, we’re going to sell mid range watches. And like I

⏹️ ▶️ John said, watches go up to this high end. Why would we not make

⏹️ ▶️ John a watch like that? And then it gets into like, well, it’s the same as the other watchers making out of fancy materials I was like, yes, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s something people do with watches. Why? Because people want gold. Why do they want gold things? Why is the gold? Why do we get to

⏹️ ▶️ John do a 500% markup? It’s like, it’s just it’s just the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way it works. Yeah. And that’s the thing, like, you know, as a like, I wrote in my blog post right before the event,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thinking that it would be cheaper. But oh, well, I wrote in that that, you know, the point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of of Apple Watch is to get people to wear it first, and then do all this other stuff like it’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you can’t get people to wear it, then all the other work you do is pointless and there are certain people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who the only kind of watch they’re going to be seen wearing is something that’s expensive and made of gold you know and and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s for various reasons that are you know we we can disagree with them or not think the same way but people have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those reasons so if they want people like celebrities and really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rich people who like fancy jewelry like if they want them to wear an Apple watch at all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have to make a gold one you know like it like there’s and certainly the sum of it you know being this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know this very profitable fashion world kind of thing and being prestigious. But, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, I think most of it is just that, just the goal of we need to make something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that nobody can look at and say, well, that’s too dorky to wear. That’s not good enough for me to wear.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if Apple’s going to do this, which they clearly are like that, I think they made the right call. Like I think this is

⏹️ ▶️ John not a boondoggle for Johnny. I think more or less he was right. But I think the company has to now become comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ John with the idea that this is the type of thing they sell. You wouldn’t see Rolex like mumbling

⏹️ ▶️ John over the pricing of its new fancy

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco watch. No, they just don’t tell you.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, you know, the horse prayer is adequate, right? Either way, like however you handle it,

⏹️ ▶️ John either you don’t mention the price, like if you have to ask you can’t afford it, like whatever. Apple needs to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John how do you present products like this because they are making a product like this and it’s probably a good call

⏹️ ▶️ John for them to make a product like this. They just have to figure out as a company how do you present it because I think you have to present it differently

⏹️ ▶️ John than the new MacBook or, you know, a traditional technology product.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And speaking of the addition, there was an omission during the keynote, not an awkward

⏹️ ▶️ Casey flyby, but a straight up omission. And that was the video about gold.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We saw a video about aluminum. We saw a video about steel, but we didn’t see a video about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gold. But apparently such a video exists. They just didn’t play it during the keynote.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that strikes me as slightly odd, although since most of the audience

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of that presentation is in both in person and in general, is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not going to be buying an edition. It’s not terribly remarkable to me that they didn’t show that video

⏹️ ▶️ Casey during the presentation, but I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can you imagine if they did like so if they did show that video, it could have just been cut for time or whatever, but imagine they did

⏹️ ▶️ John show it. I can imagine given the population that room, despite the fact that I’m sure Apple invited people from Vogue

⏹️ ▶️ John and all these other fashion magazines that I don’t know the names of. I’m sure they were in the audience too, but we know that a lot of the

⏹️ ▶️ John audience are technology, you know, media, right? I can imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit of weird, uncomfortable tittering from the audience when this gold thing is playing, like, because

⏹️ ▶️ John for the same reason that the nerd tech press is kind of like totally willing to see like CNC milling machines

⏹️ ▶️ John grinding away at aluminum and ooh and aahing over asymmetrical fan blades and stuff like that, that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John the tech press likes. Once you start showing gold, I think they feel like they’re going out of their

⏹️ ▶️ John comfort zone and you know with Johnny Ive talking in flowery terms about the

⏹️ ▶️ John gold they have and how it’s a beautiful metal and blah blah blah like it feels uncomfortable because you’re like

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not engineering this is not technology this is this is merely a fashion right and

⏹️ ▶️ John it just I don’t think it I think it would have been fine probably but I can imagine if I was there in person

⏹️ ▶️ John you wouldn’t have heard it on the slides but if you were there in person a couple of weird to statistics

⏹️ ▶️ John or at the very least the media deciding that that’s the time they’re going to check their Twitter right

⏹️ ▶️ John when the gold video comes up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just think I think it’s very simple. I think it’s that they you know they wanted to not spend a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of time on the gold pricing and so they just blew right by the whole gold section of the presentation.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think it’s any more complicated than that. It was it wasn’t worth the time they they didn’t want people to be focused on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. They wanted people to be focused on the other stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know but I think that’s a problem for the company like that they have to figure out they have to get comfortable themselves

⏹️ ▶️ John and decide I mean we just have one data point now so you don’t know but they have to they have to figure out how how

⏹️ ▶️ John do we deal with this how do we deal with the vast gulf between these

⏹️ ▶️ John product lines because they make future products like this like the Apple you know Monaco the Apple ring like whatever the

⏹️ ▶️ John heck they’re gonna do with wearable tech in the future they have to figure it out they have to just sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John come up with a policy and then And until it comes routine and we sort of, you know, expect that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John either are aren’t going to talk about the super expensive one or when they do, they’re going to do it in this way or they

⏹️ ▶️ John are aren’t going to mention the price and all that business.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we have approximately six hours of MacBook follow-up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my

⏹️ ▶️ John God. I don’t think it’s that bad. We talked about most of these things. It’s just filling in little gaps

⏹️ ▶️ John because we Spent a long time last show talking about the new MacBooks limitations

⏹️ ▶️ John And pros and cons and blah blah blah and here are the things that we didn’t get to or that have had new

⏹️ ▶️ John bits of information About the first one is about the flash in the new MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apparently, it’s really really fast, which is nice the link to this barefeets benchmarking

⏹️ ▶️ John showing that if you get the new MacBook, the flash storage is actually faster

⏹️ ▶️ John than the big black tube Mac Pro’s flash storage, which is a hell of a bargain

⏹️ ▶️ John when you consider the price of the big Mac Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I believe, I think they made PCI Express faster on this chip set. I think that’s one of the sources of this gain.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe different flash chips or whatever. It’s just, you know, technology marches on. Flash is a relatively young technology,

⏹️ ▶️ John but we’re in a weird situation now where actually if you get this pretty much, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John bottom of the line, close to bottom of the line Apple notebook, you will get really fast flash

⏹️ ▶️ John storage, which is nice and hopefully bodes well for future big tube Mac Pros and other

⏹️ ▶️ John products.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I would expect as everything gets the updated chipsets, you know, over the coming year, I would expect them to all have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same things basically.

⏹️ ▶️ John No word yet on trim support or whether we need that anymore, or whether it’s handled by the firmware

⏹️ ▶️ John or some cooperation with the OS. Like people are always asking about that, I got the Samsung 850 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John SSD, I have not done the crazy hack to enable trim support, I’m just gonna say,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you just handle it. I know there’s nothing magical that the firmware and the thing can do to make up for the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John that the OS is not telling the hardware which blocks are unused, but I don’t know, I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m trying to keep a reasonable amount of space free on it, I haven’t probably filled all the space with

⏹️ ▶️ John real or deleted files yet. If the performance drops off a cliff on my SSD I’ll be sure to let you guys know, but but so

⏹️ ▶️ John far I’m doing okay. And I just hope, I don’t wanna have to think about that and I

⏹️ ▶️ John also don’t wanna be in any unsupported configurations but I know a lot of people do the hacks to enable trim support

⏹️ ▶️ John and they seem okay with it too. So, you know, do whatever you gotta do, but so far so good.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m just happy to see storage getting faster. Because you know, although SSD,

⏹️ ▶️ John once you go all SSD then you’re just like, okay, how much faster can flash go? Why is it so slow?

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, just you. All right. You know, if you got a more modern computer, you’d have faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buses and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know, I was thinking about that the other day. It’s like, boy, seven years, I’m gonna have a

⏹️ ▶️ John seven-year-old computer. Can I make it to using a 10-year-old computer?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, at this point, you might as well try, if you’re this close.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I’m gonna buy the first one that comes that fulfills my requirements.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It never will.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John hold your breath.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you’ll definitely reach 10 years, as long as this still works.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, no, the current Mac Pro, I would’ve gotten it if it was like half the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco price. Here’s a question, if something critical died on your current one today, what would you buy to replace it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would probably be forced to get the iMac that you have. That must be excruciating for you.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I would not like it because it would be like, I know this is just a stepping stone machine

⏹️ ▶️ John and the graphics, the whole graphics performance and the overheating

⏹️ ▶️ John and whatever, like I’d love the screen and everything, But I’d be just like a way station on my way to

⏹️ ▶️ John Getting something better later. I don’t know I’m hanging there. It’s it’s hanging in there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the way whatever. It’s worth a graphics performance I don’t I don’t know how it compares by gaming standards, but I have not had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any heating problems Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not playing games on this is all just about game benchmark.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s fair But I mean like when Tufa’s playing I mean I think we were only playing portal 2 so it wasn’t really stressing it that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much But it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John was all

⏹️ ▶️ John this part. It’s like a seven-year-old game

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but when when playing portal to it the fan did spin up to what I would what I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco consider medium speed And it sustained at that level and it was never really a problem. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was never obnoxiously loud It was audible, but it was not obnoxiously loud nor did it ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overheat or seem to like throttle itself in any noticeable way

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I don’t know if you notice it in the game like that because that that GP you will just eat portal to for lunch like you’re just it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it’s a a problem. But I want that little tube. I want it

⏹️ ▶️ John to be quiet like the little tube. I want it to be powerful like the tube. I just want it to not cost a jillion

⏹️ ▶️ John dollars and I could give up one of the GPUs probably.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s the problem. I don’t think they will ever ship that

⏹️ ▶️ John machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know. Well, anyway, I’m just waiting patiently to see what I can see.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, who knows? Maybe the next 5K iMac, they resolve some of the…

⏹️ ▶️ John they put a different GPU in there or pick a different vendor like they’re always changing these things. So I’m, I’m, you know, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John in the meantime, my SSD is, is really extended the life of this computer. It feels

⏹️ ▶️ John much snappier than it used to. So I’m okay for now. As long as nothing breaks.

⏹️ ▶️ John Um, what’s the next one? The next one is about, uh, we’ve talked about, uh, the,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, keyboard having a symmetrical rectangular outline because Johnny Ive doesn’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ John bump out the keys, bump out the the outline for the arrow keys to have an inverted T with full-size

⏹️ ▶️ John keys in there. Can we have follow-up on this? Yeah, well, you know, I talked about it on the show and I said,

⏹️ ▶️ John but look at the keyboard, you notice something on there that is a step in the right direction for Johnny

⏹️ ▶️ John Ive accepting asymmetry. And I acknowledge that there’s always asymmetrical stuff on keyboards, but

⏹️ ▶️ John in this model in particular, because the trackpad is jammed right up against the spacebar, and because the left edge

⏹️ ▶️ John of the spacebar is aligned with the the left edge of the trackpad, it really emphasized the fact that the track that the

⏹️ ▶️ John space bar is not centered on this keyboard. And then I had to deal with, you know, a week and a half of people

⏹️ ▶️ John telling me the space bar is never centered on the keyboard. Yes, I know it’s never centered.

⏹️ ▶️ John But because there’s always like a buffer, there had been historically a buffer between the

⏹️ ▶️ John trackpad and the space bar, it wasn’t just in your face so much. But on this particular model, because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John just touched right up against each other. And because the left edges are aligned, it really emphasizes the fact that the

⏹️ ▶️ John right edge is not aligned. And someone tweeted at me, who is this?

⏹️ ▶️ John Shane Bonham tweeted how hard do you think it was to talk Johnny Ive out of this and he shows a picture

⏹️ ▶️ John that he mocked up of a new MacBook with a perfectly aligned space

⏹️ ▶️ John bar that is exactly the width of the trackpad. And how did he do this? By making half-size

⏹️ ▶️ John left and right arrow keys. So you got half-size up and down arrow keys and then

⏹️ ▶️ John flanking it half-size left and right arrow keys. And and it does surprisingly fit and it’s hideous

⏹️ ▶️ John and I would hate it and I hope Johnny I’ve never seized that because it’s going to give him ideas.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why do you think this is so bad? I think it looks good.

⏹️ ▶️ John I hate trying to I use the the inverted T arrow keys with

⏹️ ▶️ John three fingers middle finger is up down pointer finger is left ring finger is right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sure. I want full-size keys for those things to go on. I hate having up and down be

⏹️ ▶️ John the half-size keys because I find myself accidentally hitting one or the other or like

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to grope around to find the right key. Making the left and right also half size is

⏹️ ▶️ John just squishing my three fingers together until all three of them feel like they’re trying to press the same key cap on different, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John press the lower left corner of the key cap, press the right, no, full size keys.

⏹️ ▶️ John And again, on a tiny laptop like this, I under kind of understand, you know, whatever, I’m just talking about like the 15 inch

⏹️ ▶️ John back when they had a 17 inch, the fact that they had a little tiny keyboard in there was ridiculous. Anyway, I would

⏹️ ▶️ John not like these arrow keys. I don’t like laptop keyboards at all but boy it looks if he

⏹️ ▶️ John sees this man look up look how beautiful it is with the spacebar exactly the same width as the trackpad you don’t even buy laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John I know just like I don’t think Johnny I’ve used laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I think he just likes how the

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboards look it’s perfectly rectangular outline for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptop I think going back for a second I think if anything expresses the weirdness of Johnny I have I think it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edition watch with the white sport band

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah that’s I mean it doesn’t it’s how he dresses looks a lot like that watch. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey when

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco he when he dresses

⏹️ ▶️ John up, that sort of light, I don’t know anything about fashion again, but sort of light colored pants and just

⏹️ ▶️ John are just think of like a Bentley with the white leather interior. I don’t know if that’s the kind of Bentley he has. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John no accounting for taste, as they say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tell us about Marcus Brownlee and his prediction.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’ll be a point of this out. We’ve talked about MKBHD before. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John his Twitter handle. Marcus Brownlee, apparently a very popular YouTube person that we don’t know about because we are all

⏹️ ▶️ John old, including

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you. That makes me feel so bad. The one time when he had the supposedly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sapphire cover glass and we were like, this guy on YouTube and none of us knew who he was. Meanwhile,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s like freaking massive in YouTube. He was invited to the Apple event. He

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has an audience bigger than pretty much everybody we know in this space

⏹️ ▶️ Marco combined.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He is like the biggest guy in tech and none of us

⏹️ ▶️ John know who he is. That’s only because your kids aren’t old enough. Once your kids get old enough, you will very quickly come

⏹️ ▶️ John to accept that you don’t know anybody and all, you know. You’re there, you just don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know it yet. Once your kids start telling you that you don’t know who anybody is or start talking about famous people and you don’t recognize any of the

⏹️ ▶️ John names, that’s when it really comes home. So you’ll get, you’ll both get there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but like usually like, you know, it’s okay for me to not know somebody who is a really big deal like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in music or TV or something. To not know somebody who’s a really big deal in my own industry?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s right, I mean for me it was, you know, stuff about gaming, right? Because I subscribe to game

⏹️ ▶️ John magazines, I read gaming news sites and stuff like that, but I do not watch a lot of gaming YouTube channels and

⏹️ ▶️ John they are humongous and I don’t know who any of those people are. And I’m fine with it by the way, because

⏹️ ▶️ John I just am. But yeah, no, I mean, I’ve watched some of his videos. He does

⏹️ ▶️ John a great job. I would have eaten that up if I was a kid this YouTube existed

⏹️ ▶️ John and these channels exist I would have been over the moon because I was trying to illegally get copies of Mac week that’s what I was

⏹️ ▶️ John doing these guys got HD video a guy stabbing a potential iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John thing with a knife it’s awesome anyway he is getting bold you know

⏹️ ▶️ John these these these youths they’re they’re brash predictions and we’ll put a link to

⏹️ ▶️ John this in the show notes at three minutes and 14 seconds in this video here is a quote from Marques Brownlee

⏹️ ▶️ John I can pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guarantee the second generation of this thin and light new MacBook will have more than one USB

⏹️ ▶️ John port, quote me. Well, I quoted him. That’s exactly what he said. He is just,

⏹️ ▶️ John he says pretty much guarantee the pretty much hedges a little bit, but then he says quote me.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right, we’re quoting you. You can pretty much guarantee that the next one’s going to have two. I hope it does.

⏹️ ▶️ John As has been stated at length. I really hope it does. But this is interesting to see a

⏹️ ▶️ John popular person. I think he thinks there’s going to be another one, assuming he has no inside info, which I have no way

⏹️ ▶️ John of knowing. But if he doesn’t have any inside info, he’s just saying, you know, he’s saying what we’re all thinking. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, well, duh, the second one will obviously have a second port, like, it’s crazy to just

⏹️ ▶️ John want to one port, right, guys, right, like, come on, you know, that could be what he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John thinking. That could show either wisdom of

⏹️ ▶️ John knowing his history about the original MacBook Air that had one and eventually came out with two, or

⏹️ ▶️ John not knowing exactly how stubborn Apple can be. I think we’ll get to Apple stubbornness a little bit later

⏹️ ▶️ John in a somewhat related topic. But I just wanted to put that out there so that

⏹️ ▶️ John we can all hold him to his prediction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, all of us who are approximately 25 times less than his own audience.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, even much less. And we’re all old people and he won’t even know that we’re talking about him and that’s fine. But amongst ourselves

⏹️ ▶️ John and our knitting circle and our book club and our little technology nerd thing, we

⏹️ ▶️ John will talk amongst ourselves about these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco youngsters. I mean, I think I never going to talk endlessly about the support, but I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would bet he’s wrong about this. I would bet that this doesn’t pan out that way that

⏹️ ▶️ John I know you’re making you’re doing. You shouldn’t have said that. Why? Because you’re always wrong about everything

⏹️ ▶️ John you just went through back when

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you said the Apple Watch Edition was going to be true. That’s your thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Every time you do predictions on your blog, you’re like, keep in mind that my track record of predicting Apple things is terrible. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the one thing you’re right about. Your track record is not good. And so now that you said that, I’m doubting now. I’m like, oh damn it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just I agree with you and now I think I must be wrong cuz I agree with Marco about a picture All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right before we take this any further Let’s go ahead and thank another sponsor and then we can go in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one versus many port black hole

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my god, this is gonna be all follow-up, isn’t it told you there’s we gotta put a time cap on

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so let’s go into the black hole, John. Yeah. Why don’t you tell us about the ports again?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this is from Dave

⏹️ ▶️ John W. He he’s getting down to the sort of philosophical

⏹️ ▶️ John reasoning for why there’s you know, what do I get with one port instead of two?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why is there one port instead of two so on and so forth. Thus far, I have still not seen

⏹️ ▶️ John any credible, practical support for the idea that

⏹️ ▶️ John there that there is one instead of two. Just lots of plausible theories.

⏹️ ▶️ John When you know, lots of people like what if blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, yeah, sure, I can play

⏹️ ▶️ John what if all day, but if you don’t, if the what if isn’t true, like, then we don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John So even though there’s, there’s a bunch of potentially plausible reasons, like, you know, we went over them

⏹️ ▶️ John before PCI Express lanes power concerns blah blah you got to quantify them you got it you got to know that they’re actually true

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’re just not saying this is theory this could be true and then you have to quantify them because if you quantify them then you can say

⏹️ ▶️ John oh well it does would take more power but it would take point zero zero zero zero zero one more watts of power

⏹️ ▶️ John then I don’t care then it’s not a good reason right but if it would take double the power then I do care so you have to quantify

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway this reason gets more philosophical Dave W says I think

⏹️ ▶️ John I can think of two reasons neither are about making this MacBook better. They’re kind of both the same reason,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I’ll give them the two. One, Apple can use customer reaction as a signal on whether it saves or reduce the number of

⏹️ ▶️ John ports on the rest of their laptops. So this is sort of like, let’s try it with one and

⏹️ ▶️ John see what the reaction is. It’s a trial balloon. If it goes over like a lead balloon, then

⏹️ ▶️ John Marcus Brownlee will be right. And the next one will have two ports and you know, lesson learned, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And number two, related, those who adjust first to having only one port effectively carve a path

⏹️ ▶️ John that makes it easier for the rest of us to follow. There’s a lot of things about the carving the path. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John you get used to it, you get acclimated to it on a small thing, the industry of adapters and everything can be built

⏹️ ▶️ John up around that so then it’s safer to go the other models, the idea that it’s a transition point to try to go

⏹️ ▶️ John to you know zero points or go to one port everywhere. All of this sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John accepts as a premise that one port is the way to go and then just explains how apple

⏹️ ▶️ John would be using us as a strategy to get to one port i don’t think it answers the essential question from a consumer’s

⏹️ ▶️ John perspective of like what am i getting with one that i wouldn’t be getting with two

⏹️ ▶️ John so that is still an open question i will re-emphasize that does not mean i think there is not an answer

⏹️ ▶️ John i think there very well could be an answer but the answer would have to be

⏹️ ▶️ John something in the form of here is a technical reason or whatever that this couldn’t be done not just

⏹️ ▶️ John there could be a technical reason like this yeah there could be but we’re not you know what I mean I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not interesting to me to hear people speculate about how much power they think it would have taken to add a second

⏹️ ▶️ John port if they have no idea how much power would have added to take a second port if any so

⏹️ ▶️ John we may never know we will have to wait till the next version of this thing comes out of it still

⏹️ ▶️ John has one port. It shows that it didn’t matter enough for Apple to care that it

⏹️ ▶️ John only had one. Um, and related to that,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, I’ve got a whole section about this down there. I didn’t realize how long this goes. Sorry guys. Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Related to the idea. So I’ll see you next

⏹️ ▶️ John week. Yeah. Related to the idea that the case design dictates this, that they really

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to have this case. Casey came up with this, fittingly based on his name, that they really

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to have this case. Have you ever had that that particular pun

⏹️ ▶️ John based on your name in your life? What caseless about about a computer case?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, there’s a first time for everything. Yeah, well, people who have names and get teased about them. It’s like, Oh, it’s first

⏹️ ▶️ John time I heard that one. Well, you know, you’ve gone through 30 something years of life and no one has ever

⏹️ ▶️ John compared your first name to a computer case until now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is what I say every single time somebody says Marco Polo.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I see Marco has heard that one before. I’ll have to think of some novel way to compare

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco’s name to something, but not today.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Damn.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so Casey’s thing was they just wanted this case. And then I started

⏹️ ▶️ John considering the notion, is that the way that anyone would design anything? That you just come up with the case and you just say, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John now you just, whatever you can fit inside that, go for it. We got a lot of armchair

⏹️ ▶️ John speculation about that from listeners and from us on the show saying, I was saying

⏹️ ▶️ John that regardless of whether this is how Apple designs things, it’s a bad way to design things because it doesn’t make any sense to me. And

⏹️ ▶️ John realistically speaking, it’s an impossible way to design things because, you know, why

⏹️ ▶️ John isn’t the MacBook as thin as a piece of paper? Well, that’s the case I want to have. There are practical

⏹️ ▶️ John considerations that the people designing the case know. They know it can’t be as thin as a piece of paper because they know at minimum

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s some certain thickness for the CPU. You can’t make the CPU the thickness of a sheet of paper right now. They know that.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know, they’re not engineers, but they know. Everyone knows like, okay, there’s going to be a CPU in this.

⏹️ ▶️ John The CPU can’t be a thickness of a piece of paper. So I’m not gonna say this is the case. You get like, the

⏹️ ▶️ John case is always defined by what’s inside it, because the people designing it know the limitations, roughly,

⏹️ ▶️ John of the stuff that’s inside it. But you can say, yeah, within the bounds that they just designed the outside and and then

⏹️ ▶️ John the inside comes after. Well, I don’t think we need to speculate about what actually goes

⏹️ ▶️ John on inside Apple, because Johnny Ive, in a video interview with Vanity Fair at 6

⏹️ ▶️ John minutes and 38 seconds in, is asked, or is this a question, I guess, the interviewer

⏹️ ▶️ John asked, so when you started off, you were designing the outsides of machines almost exclusively. And again, I would

⏹️ ▶️ John encourage people to read that Johnny Ive book that we will put a link to in the show notes,

⏹️ ▶️ John that goes over his history in the company and how kind of he would back in the bad old

⏹️ ▶️ John days, he would kind of get a completed machine and he was asked to sort of put a nice looking

⏹️ ▶️ John thing around the box, right? And that’s not the way he liked to work. So Johnny’s

⏹️ ▶️ John answer is, yes, in the battle days, this was how it was going. Yes, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re going to do a good job, you can’t just impose an outside on something, you know, you have to have a bigger idea. And that always

⏹️ ▶️ John meant that you’re involved in designing the layout and the internal architecture with the engineers. It’s one of the things I really love.

⏹️ ▶️ John I really love doing a lot. So there it is from the horse’s mouth. He is not just designing the outside.

⏹️ ▶️ John He’s designing the outside of the inside together because that’s the better way to design things. That’s what he loves doing. Period,

⏹️ ▶️ John end of story.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Are we done with the followup yet? Oh no, we have a humongous section

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on naysayer notions.

⏹️ ▶️ John This just looks big. You should

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco open up all these.

⏹️ ▶️ John You should open up all these links and tabs. I think we’ll breeze through this because it’s really just a lot of- My screen’s not big enough. A lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of links and just open a new window and just put all the tabs lined up and I’m at my window limit

⏹️ ▶️ John not so three.

⏹️ ▶️ John So these are all the various various naysayers about the idea that

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re going to call like Macbook fatalism or sort of like

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware design fatalism that the way it is the way things are is the only way they could

⏹️ ▶️ John ever have been because that is the way they are like is a tautological fatalistic

⏹️ ▶️ John notion that Apple has done something. Therefore, the only way Apple could have done something is the way Apple did something, because that’s the way

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple did it. Right. That just goes around and around in circles, a snake eating its tail. And people love it. They just cannot

⏹️ ▶️ John resist the notion that it is absolutely positively impossible to to make this machine

⏹️ ▶️ John with two USB C ports without some massive compromise that would destroy the machine, either spiritually,

⏹️ ▶️ John physically or both. Right. One idea was related to the taper

⏹️ ▶️ John that if you made, and Mark even said it in the show, if you made this machine either untapered or less tapered,

⏹️ ▶️ John that they would not be distinguishable from the 13-inch MacBook Pro. And even though I directly addressed that on the past show,

⏹️ ▶️ John at least I gave my opinion on it, people acted like they didn’t hear me, or at least acting like they disagree. I actually

⏹️ ▶️ John sent someone a mock-up of like the side view of the thing and saying, I just drew a straight line where there was a taper,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then I colored in the triangle, and it was like, put computer here. Like this

⏹️ ▶️ John black triangle that I have drawn, That’s the place that does not currently have computer, put computer there. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John think that machine, if you put it next to a side view of the 13 inch MacBook Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John it is still clearly distinguishable, even if you entirely eliminate the taper. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. No, I mean, I don’t think, I wasn’t saying it was gonna be exactly the same, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the difference would be a lot smaller. It would still be noticeably smaller because it’s a smaller screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, and you could just taper it less. Like what I was getting at is like, Even if you just taper it a little bit less,

⏹️ ▶️ John the battery savings are tremendous because there is so little battery in there that even just a couple of degrees of,

⏹️ ▶️ John or a fraction of a degree of un-tapering, gives you potentially a large percentage more battery.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but then that would push it over the magical 2 pound mark, too, even if it was only a little bit, even if it was 2.1 pounds. That’s still-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s nothing

⏹️ ▶️ John magical about 2 pounds. 2.01 pounds, 2.02, 2.03. Again, you have to quantify it. How much more does it weigh? Could a person,

⏹️ ▶️ John given these two things, be able to tell the difference in weight blindfolded between 2.012

⏹️ ▶️ John and 2.012. It’s nice for marketing materials that it’s exactly 2 on the nose,

⏹️ ▶️ John who knows if it even is, it’s like a displacement in engines, you know, well, it’s close enough, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even know if it is exactly 2 pounds on the nose.

⏹️ ▶️ John Again, you have to quantify because people are willing to say, if you make this thing 1 gram heavier,

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole machine is ruined. If you make it 1mm longer in any dimension, that’s it. It’s just it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Johnny Ive will cry because he wanted that particular case. And now you’ve ruined it because it is perfect.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you make and the best thing about it is like in the whole parallel mirror universe thing where you have a million different universes

⏹️ ▶️ John where they make a million different decisions, and you actually do introduce this machine with variations of fractions

⏹️ ▶️ John of a pound and fractions of a millimeter, everyone in those universals would be like, this is the only way it could have possibly been.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if I saw a machine that was different in any dimension, or in any weight measured by a tiny amount, I would know

⏹️ ▶️ John that it is different when you wouldn’t, would just accept whatever machine they put out and you would say that’s the machine and yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway I get frustrated so really yeah so

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of people you know here’s the people who are a quote-unquote on my side kept coming in with these

⏹️ ▶️ John examples of existing PC machines that supposedly demonstrate everything

⏹️ ▶️ John that I’m frustrated about and there’s a whole bunch of stories but this is one in the verge about

⏹️ ▶️ John the Asus Zen books beautifully named capital U Capital X 305

⏹️ ▶️ John great product name there Asus. I believe it’s pronounced asses. I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco believe

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not that is thinner than the new MacBook and never and

⏹️ ▶️ John of course has multiple ports as everything else does. What does that says an SD card reader

⏹️ ▶️ John headphone jack three USB ports not type C full size three full

⏹️ ▶️ John size USB ports micro HDMI and it’s thinner than this new one. People like oh see that shows

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple could have made it smaller. But those people weren’t paying attention to the specs because this machine is

⏹️ ▶️ John an inch wider, an inch deeper and a half a pound heavier. And those are quantifiable. An inch is

⏹️ ▶️ John not a couple of millimeters, an inch wider, an inch deeper. I don’t know how to talk about these dimensions when I say that people think it’s like an inch

⏹️ ▶️ John thick, I guess you know what I mean, right? It is it is thinner when you lay it down than

⏹️ ▶️ John the MacBook, but it is much bigger in the other dimensions. And it’s half a pound heavier. And I think a half a pound, you could probably

⏹️ ▶️ John tell that it’s not just like 2.0 versus 2.1 pounds right it’s also by the way half the price

⏹️ ▶️ John of the macbook so all this is showing is that another machine was made with different trade-offs

⏹️ ▶️ John um if the new macbook was the same dimensions and weight as this

⏹️ ▶️ John uh in that mirror universe i think people would be fine with it uh but now that you can see them side by side clearly

⏹️ ▶️ John the apple one is giving you a a trade-off that i think people would find more attractive

⏹️ ▶️ John for double the price I guess then there’s the Lenovo yoga yoga pro 3 I guess

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s better because it doesn’t have a bunch of alphanumerics in the name but yoga you name your computer yoga I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like that I don’t like that this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the one that had the misleading ad right

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah so that’s we should put a link to the show it’s first of all there they are really bad they are touting

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that they’re thinner and they put they put the computer the side view of the computers next to each other and just use different scales

⏹️ ▶️ John like like like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wildly different scales

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah like they are they are a few millimeters thinner but again because humans can’t perceive a few millimeters like

⏹️ ▶️ John if you if you drew an accurate picture people be like those look like the same thickness because nobody can tell when it’s a few millimeters

⏹️ ▶️ John off except for of course the people who think that the entire MacBook would be ruined if it was a few millimeters different in any dimension

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway yeah they totally cheated on the ad but it is thinner slightly

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s bigger in the other two dimensions it has full size USB it’s a half pound heavier blah blah blah noticing

⏹️ ▶️ John a trend here right and so all this goes to say that all the people finding the other machines

⏹️ ▶️ John that seem to be better than the MacBook and all things, they’re just shifting around

⏹️ ▶️ John the internal components. This doesn’t say anything one way or the other about whether Apple could have within the same

⏹️ ▶️ John case or within a case that is imperceptibly different done to USB ports. I remain convinced

⏹️ ▶️ John that Apple could have put two USB ports on this without a perceptible loss of anything to anybody.

⏹️ ▶️ John But these computers are don’t say anything pro or con to that argument. I think they are interesting, though, to see what other people are doing

⏹️ ▶️ John with similar chipsets, both in terms of price, battery life, and the other type

⏹️ ▶️ John of limitations. The most fun one is, what is this one here? Who sent this in?

⏹️ ▶️ John Someone named Ken sent in a Microsoft Windows 8.1 PC the size of a

⏹️ ▶️ John dongle. So it’s something about, they show a little lipstick container next to it. It’s about the size of like one of those streaming sticks,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And it has more ports than the Mac Pro. It’s about the size of a lipstick.

⏹️ ▶️ John And what does it have on it? looks like it has full-size USB micro HDMI

⏹️ ▶️ John micro SD port HDMI and USB yeah that

⏹️ ▶️ John is probably the most embarrassing but again that’s not a full-fledged computer doesn’t have a keyboard blah blah blah blah blah it’s just funny

⏹️ ▶️ John the other limit that we did we talk about the 8 gig RAM limit I think briefly

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah, that you can’t get it with 16 that I’m actually more willing to.

⏹️ ▶️ John So RAM chips take up room. You can’t put more RAM on there. Like you can’t say well just

⏹️ ▶️ John shrink the other RAM. I mean, I’m assuming they’re they’re fabbing the RAM at the same size as everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John else like and that it would not be economical to try to press the process and usually RAM is one of the best process

⏹️ ▶️ John sizes anyway, because it’s really easy to make it is very regular. So you wouldn’t need more space for the RAM. Also battery

⏹️ ▶️ John power. Yeah, and a little bit of battery power. Like, I think we’re all well aware of the tradeoffs

⏹️ ▶️ John of more RAM on portable devices, which is, you know, we’re always complaining about it with iOS devices.

⏹️ ▶️ John But the tricky bit here is like, we’re not saying that they should all have 16, merely

⏹️ ▶️ John that 16 should be an option somewhere. And historically, once Apple started soldering the RAM to the boards,

⏹️ ▶️ John it has not been good about giving out has it ever given a BTO option for for a laptop with RAM

⏹️ ▶️ John solder to the board?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole 15 inch line. I thought they all came with 16 now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s it. When I bought mine, the first gen, it was an option.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got eight. I got the base model, but 16 was available. Yeah, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Aaron’s MacBook Air that I’m talking to you on right now, the only thing that made

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a BTO was that I made it have eight gigs of RAM instead of four.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so it’s always nice to have that other one. And in practice, like even though only nerds know that like, oh, more

⏹️ ▶️ John RAM needs more power and everything like that. A lot of people are willing to take that trade off. And B,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you asked anybody to measure that trade off, it’s actually probably pretty hard to measure like you would have to come up

⏹️ ▶️ John with some sort of, you know, I don’t know, like measuring energy usage is a pain, which I know from my

⏹️ ▶️ John extensive attempts to try to test Mavericks battery usage. There’s just so many variables

⏹️ ▶️ John like what what is representative usage for you? How can you prove that the eight versus the 16?

⏹️ ▶️ John How could you show a measurable difference? Or is it just like within the margin of error of your energy retesting thing like would you

⏹️ ▶️ John notice it in real life but regardless it’s nice to have choices but it’s better for Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John to have one skew although then they made it in colors but anyway to have one board right to have

⏹️ ▶️ John one board inside all these machines it’s a nice simplification eight is a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ John you know we were talking about the limitations the machine the RAM limit is the one you can’t get around as easily I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re really pressed you can attach external storage and for CPU stuff you can just wait longer but RAM is

⏹️ ▶️ John just this unfixable like, and it’s fine for most people. But if you know you need more RAM than that, and you’d really

⏹️ ▶️ John love to use this machine, and you’d be willing to say, charge me more money, use more of my battery,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s more important for me to have 16 gigs of RAM. So I can do task x on the road with a super light MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is not the product for you. I think it’s not the worst RAM choice they’ve made. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John have putting keeping one gig in the iOS devices for so long was more

⏹️ ▶️ John painful than this just because of all the Safari tabs going away every time you switch to another app. It also

⏹️ ▶️ John burned me and my RAM star machine burn me playing Alto, which by the way is a great game and we should link in the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John because I would leave the game. I would leave the game paused. And then like, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know if I would just close the lid and then I would open back up again and the game is gone. I sometimes I forget that

⏹️ ▶️ John like if I switch away for a second to read Twitter, Alto is out of memory and I was in the middle of a run.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m screwed now. So I think the iOS devices have been more RAM starved than Max lately. of it getting better

⏹️ ▶️ John in particular when they went to 16 across the board on the Mac Pro line it was like thank God reflect

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that it’s a pro so I think 8 gig is the right choice for the bottom of the line here it’s just a shame that it doesn’t go up higher

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but well for whatever it’s worth you know to be fair to this computer I just verified all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the MacBook Airs currently ship with four stock and and max out at eight like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can you can BTO all of them they max out at eight so this thing as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a replacement to the MacBook Air to come stock with eight is pretty good. First of all,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not very forward-looking like that’s an old machine. It’s like at the end of its life. It’s like when you know the last model year

⏹️ ▶️ John of a car before it goes through the generational revision. Like I give the MacBook Air as a pass

⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re the older machine. This is the new one it should be built for the future.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well they were just updated though. You know they all just got it just got a minor update. So anyway, so you know as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing basically sitting pretty close to the bottom of the lineup, I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s that unreasonable for it to have 8GB of RAM stock at this price

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think is good. And maxing out at 8 just matches it up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the other MacBook Airs. And so I think the goal here was probably to minimize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco SKUs and board space. And so I’m sure they’ll switch to 16GB once

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever mainstream RAM process, basically once the DRAM

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chips double in size that they’re using. Once that becomes reasonably available for a good price.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I bet that’s when they’ll do it. I wouldn’t be too concerned about that. And I think, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seeing the rest of the lineup, I’m actually very pleasantly surprised that they all come with a minimum

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of eight gigs. I think that’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ John What is the Mac for the big tube Mac Pro come with? Isn’t it some ridiculous minimum like 12 or something? 12

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you’re right. That is weird. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it was three times.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s always been really weird, right? But yeah, this this is fine. Like far more people would find a practical

⏹️ ▶️ John use for a second USB port than care about having more RAM. So it’s just something to note.

⏹️ ▶️ John Mostly because like, you know, the other comparable machines, I’ll just when it’s thinner and it goes up to 16 and all that other

⏹️ ▶️ John business, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, and I, you know, again on this machine though, you know, we’re all looking at it as geeks because we all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we all want this to be good for us because it’s new and shiny and really impressive in a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few, you know, physical ways. So we are, we’re all looking at this like getting mad at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, you know, almost like getting mad at the Apple Watch Edition for not being made for us and not being priced for us.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, we’re looking at this MacBook and saying, man, why do they only have one port? Ah, big rage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Why is there only eight gigs of RAM here? Big rage. But the fact is, it’s a low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spec laptop made for other priorities, and it’s really tiny.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, I can’t think of anything I would do on this machine that would need more than eight gigs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of RAM, because if I’m doing stuff like that, I need more screen space by a lot, not by a little.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I need a lot more screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John space.

⏹️ ▶️ John But some people get by with that much screen space. Like we all have the things that annoy us. Like the port is

⏹️ ▶️ John the most annoying one for me because I don’t see the reasoning behind it. The 816, like the economics

⏹️ ▶️ John and the power draw and the placement of this machine is low end machine. But like, I don’t think like

⏹️ ▶️ John a second USB port is a high end feature. And you know, like, it just, that’s the one that I think is the

⏹️ ▶️ John most needless, the most sort of arbitrary as far as we know. like there’s no there’s no good reason to support.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just what they want to do. Whereas they give us a ram, we can all think of much, you know, lots of

⏹️ ▶️ John good reasons for it. And the screen size like that may annoy you because you have trouble working in a small but you see why the screen is small

⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s how big the laptop is like that. There’s a direct correlation there. So I this is

⏹️ ▶️ John low on my list is just I thought it was worth worth discussing in the context of Apple’s history

⏹️ ▶️ John of of ram limits and bringing up the four gigs on the air is great because that’s that shows how far they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John come. If this thing had come up with four, we would be screaming about it way more than the port situation, I think.

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⏹️ ▶️ John All right. We’re getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their

⏹️ ▶️ John final sponsor still in follow up. Yeah. MagSafe and USB C

⏹️ ▶️ John and trip ability. We talked about this before the machine came out, but not so much afterwards. And

⏹️ ▶️ John luckily, we don’t have to do the hard work because was this Glenn Fleischman I think in Macworld yep

⏹️ ▶️ John tried to figure out again in in the grand tradition of all of us commenting

⏹️ ▶️ John on things we’ve never seen or touched and try to figure out yeah how

⏹️ ▶️ John this new MacBook will behave if you trip over the cord versus how MagSafe behaves with all sorts of

⏹️ ▶️ John perhaps questionable physics he did involve Dr. Drang in this discussion

⏹️ ▶️ John but predictably Dr. Drang had complaints about how the information was conveyed after the fact anyway we’ll put the

⏹️ ▶️ John link in the show notes he tried to use coefficients of friction and physics and forces to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John what will happen when you trip over the cord of your USB C connected new MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what will happen I remember we first discussed this I was totally willing to believe that because

⏹️ ▶️ John the connector is so tiny it might have similar performance characteristics

⏹️ ▶️ John to MagSafe depending on the angle that the thing is pulled in the apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing that matters the most is how quickly the force is applied not so much the direction

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway read the story we’ll all find out once we get these things and our kids and

⏹️ ▶️ John significant others start start tripping over them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I mean I the problem is you know if you look at at both Glenn and dr. drank analyses of this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know they have to make some estimations here and there and you know some ballparks here and there because we just don’t have certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco information, but it basically looks like there’s a very,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very good chance of it being able to be pulled off a table with with you know enough force

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or enough speed of tripping over that cable with so much leeway that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know it’s pretty clear that even if their assumptions are not that accurate, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much leeway in the number that like yeah pretty much like you don’t want to have this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing plugged in with cable draped across something where people are going to be walking. Like again, if this is this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is yet another thing if that’s important to you, this machine is not right for you or you need to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get some kind of extension cord

⏹️ ▶️ John like a MagSafe could go away entirely and Apple could just say again. I was saying like they didn’t make a big deal out of this

⏹️ ▶️ John by saying we thought MagSafe was a good idea, but it turns out it’s not a big deal. They just didn’t mention it. And if this

⏹️ ▶️ John turns out not to be a problem, I can see them ditching MagSafe and all their other machines too just because they’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to get thinner too and MagSafe is pretty big and MagSafe 2 was worse than MagSafe 1 partially. we assume because

⏹️ ▶️ John it got smaller and didn’t, you know what I mean? Like it didn’t quite work as well. And people complain about MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John not being not staying connected enough like they they use it on their couch and they switch to MagSafe 2 and it

⏹️ ▶️ John was always coming disconnected and it was annoying them. Like it seems like the problem is in the other direction. So now maybe this

⏹️ ▶️ John is a solution for those people to say, well, you were annoyed by MagSafe 2 constantly coming disconnected

⏹️ ▶️ John when you didn’t want it to and no one’s tripping over it. Well, this will solve that problem for you. And

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, I think the interesting thing about their analysis was they were taking force

⏹️ ▶️ John numbers from the USB spec because the USB specs is how much what the min and max forces for plugging

⏹️ ▶️ John and unplugging there’s a pretty wide range there but it’s interesting that you know they could get as far as they could with the analysis

⏹️ ▶️ John without actually having machines to trip over and Peter wage net or

⏹️ ▶️ John wagonet or something like that tweeted that no magsafe

⏹️ ▶️ John on the new MacBooks means Apple doesn’t expect to use it use it plugged in no one complains about no magsafe on the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the idea that with this all-day battery life and so on and so forth you don’t use it plugged in you

⏹️ ▶️ John when you’re using it it’s not plugged in and like your iPad when you’re or your phone when you’re not using it you plug it

⏹️ ▶️ John in unfortunately I have seen a lot of people including my children much to my chagrin use

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS devices while plugged in this is a no-no in terms of cable life

⏹️ ▶️ John although I still maintain my unbroken record of never having destroyed a lightning cable or never having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I broke mine this week or last week I lost my first one I’m so

⏹️ ▶️ John upset. You lost it as in damaged it to the point. It doesn’t work.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, it was the one I’m using in an elevation doc. So it has like this bracket that like it like turns

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it on a right angle. So like, I’m not surprised it’s that one, but I’m still annoyed.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so but I do see people have you seen this? Have you done it yourself use an iOS device while plugged

⏹️ ▶️ John in?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do. Yeah, my my my kids iPad, which is also the first iOS device I’ve ever had that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has a cracked screen. That is frequently being used while plugged in because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of times kids, especially when they’re not even three, don’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to plug their iPads in all the time when they need to. So sometimes it’s desired

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be used at a time when it’s not fully charged.

⏹️ ▶️ John My son has Marco’s, his range anxiety for his

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John because he watches YouTube videos. He used to play Minecraft on it, but he watches YouTube videos and

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s never really in danger running out of battery even on this you know it’s an original iPad 2 right but

⏹️ ▶️ John if if the battery looks a little bit low it just like it just makes him feel safer to just use it plugged in all the time which is

⏹️ ▶️ John terrible because he’s constantly kinking the cord and moving around and I’m like you’re at 100% you’ve been at 100% for 20 minutes unplug the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing you can go to another place you don’t have to be sitting next to the cord anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John the idea that the new Macbook that that’s the model they’re going with there is like you don’t use it when it’s plugged in and then

⏹️ ▶️ John Serenity Colwell replied to that same thread. She says, Well, if the MacBook had 12 to 15

⏹️ ▶️ John hours of battery, maybe but nine is right on the edge for me. So you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John can you use it like an iPad? iPad is a comfortable 10. And I think people are less likely to just

⏹️ ▶️ John sit in front of an iPad for an entire working day and do not go accept it, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, we’ll see if if that is the new use case. And if they can stretch out the battery to the point where people

⏹️ ▶️ John stop feeling like they need to have it plugged in while they’re using it, they just use it and it’s not plugged in and then close

⏹️ ▶️ John it up, put it someplace else, plug it in when you’re not using it. That could make the MagSafe issue moot

⏹️ ▶️ John as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but that’s, you know, I totally agree with Serenity that that like, you know, all these new Apple laptops, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can tell like Jason Snell had that post a couple months back that Apple was like solving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a certain battery life with the iPads and with the iPhones. And you could see like, especially with the iPads, like, it’s very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear that Apple takes whatever gains they get with advancements in battery technology

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or more efficient components. Gains they get that in battery life that could be used to make something with much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco longer battery life They usually apply instead to keep the same battery life

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But with less physical battery and then you can make the whole thing thinner and lighter Did you just attribute that to Jason Snell?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He wrote the article about it, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John We talked about it like a year

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco ago Well, yeah, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he wrote an article about and he had a he had pretty graphs. Come on I

⏹️ ▶️ John know you just because he wrote it down You attribute your own idea to Jason because he wrote about

⏹️ ▶️ John it not that I’m saying, you know, Jason’s right We agree with him, but I think it was you or us we talked about this

⏹️ ▶️ John like a year before he wrote that But because he wrote it down in the blog post yeah our podcast discussions don’t count

⏹️ ▶️ John and now this is Jason’s idea

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sure if if we said it a year ago I’m sure we weren’t the first people to say it even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John then I know

⏹️ ▶️ John but but of all the people to attribute to attribute to yourself you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Doesn’t matter who said it, but You know I think if you look across apples on it like this is this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is one of those areas where like I think they Have calculated that a little bit wrong I like I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love to have 25% more battery life across the line 30% like 40% something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 6 plus kind of does that but I think I think it does that almost accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the laptops they’re all within the same pretty narrow range like with or or lower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the 11 inches actually lower but they’re all within this like you know 9 to 11

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hour range that’s all like pretty close And the problem is those numbers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are wildly variable based on what you’re doing with it. If you’re doing something that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stresses the CPU more than average, that number could drop by half.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There isn’t necessarily enough leeway for a lot of people in these numbers to be running untethered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to things all day. And if that was how you’re intended to use this laptop all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time, personally, I would want a longer battery life on it. I would want more like 15 hours.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and you’re Marco that you have just recently done the thing that I’ve seen done many

⏹️ ▶️ John other places, which is somehow arranged to have a Apple power connector

⏹️ ▶️ John snaking out of the cushions in your couch. Yes. And why would you do that? Because you find yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John using Apple devices and you have, you know, range anxiety as well. You just feel more comfortable

⏹️ ▶️ John being able to plug them in, have it on your lap and to plug them in, sit on your couch and do it. And really, that’s that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of usage where the MagSafe comes in handy because in the office, if people are sitting at their desk

⏹️ ▶️ John with their laptop plugged in, like the cords are, you know, down behind, like they’re not in a trippable location, but in people’s

⏹️ ▶️ John houses, when they’re using them on their couches, that’s when things get tripped over. And it’s like, why are you having it plugged in

⏹️ ▶️ John when you use on your couch? Well, you feel like I just always keep it next to the couch, and it’s pain to plug in

⏹️ ▶️ John and unplug it. And sometimes I’m near the end of the battery, but I don’t want to stop what I’m doing, whether it’s watching a movie or playing a game

⏹️ ▶️ John or even just web browsing. So I just it’s nice to have it on your lap and have it plugged in, right. And so then eventually you end

⏹️ ▶️ John up snaking a little Apple power cord up between the cushions in your couch and it’s it’s convenient, right? And I

⏹️ ▶️ John think it’s going to be very difficult, you’re gonna have to have a hell of a battery to stop people from doing that. And nine hours is

⏹️ ▶️ John comfortably below that limit where I think you feel like you have to go to like 24 hours or something. And even then,

⏹️ ▶️ John the problem is if people don’t pay attention, like if they forget to charge it overnight, they come in the next morning, they’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, well, it’s not like I’m not going to use my computer. Let me just plug it in while I use it. Yeah, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we definitely have one of those cords snaked between our couch as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s a good

⏹️ ▶️ John idea. It’s a it’s a it’s a thing. No, I’ve seen it over many years. I’ve resisted doing

⏹️ ▶️ John it mostly because I stick to iOS devices on the couch and so far I’ve been able to keep that policy. But

⏹️ ▶️ John if someone like we have.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, our cord is an iOS cord. It’s a lightning cable. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey same here.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you’re using like iPads plugged in? Usually iPhones, but sometimes iPads. Same here.

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhones. So you’re using the iPhones plugged into iPhone. Like I said, I have my my battery life on my six I mean it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John new phone and I’m so far I have not ever had to use it plugged in occasionally my iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John upstairs I’m in a big alto session I notice I’m getting a little low on battery I get nervous but

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like using it plugged in speaking of plugging things in one of the other this should have been the naysayer

⏹️ ▶️ John section the idea that like well if they had two USB C ports what are you gonna do have one that you can

⏹️ ▶️ John charge through and one that you can’t that’s confusing there’s people who have two minds in this some people said having one port that you can charge

⏹️ ▶️ John from one that you can is too confusing it’s a non-starter and other people said you can’t have two ports that you can charge from because it’s confusing I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John sure what would be confusing that people wouldn’t know which port they’re like if it works in both they don’t have to know but somehow they’d

⏹️ ▶️ John be concerned that they were plugging in the wrong one and a lot of people said it’s just impossible you can’t have something that charges from both

⏹️ ▶️ John ports because it’s electrically impossible or because whatever so

⏹️ ▶️ John the Chromebook pixel actually has two USB C ports and it can charge

⏹️ ▶️ John from both of them so it is not electrically impossible If you thought that was the case, here’s a product that shows that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not. I assume this machine does not immediately burst into flames if you plug in a charger into both sides.

⏹️ ▶️ John We have this amazing technology that they can sense when things are plugged in. We have the technology we can make something

⏹️ ▶️ John with two USB-C charging ports. Can you make it with four, six? I believe we can. We sent a man

⏹️ ▶️ John to the moon. I believe we can make a computer with six USB charging

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey ports.

⏹️ ▶️ John Whether or not that becomes more complicated to some degree that precludes it, I don’t know. that charges

⏹️ ▶️ John from two. If you think charging from two is more confusing than charging from only

⏹️ ▶️ John one, I don’t know. I don’t know what the right call is. I think either one would probably be fine,

⏹️ ▶️ John but if you’re going to have two identical looking ports and you’re not going to make one clearly the charging port, you can

⏹️ ▶️ John just make it charge from either port, and I think we can do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I don’t think we have time for anything else this week except for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John all this follow-up.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, we’re almost there! We’re almost there! There’s like two more items! We’re gonna do it. Okay, go for it. Mirror display only.

⏹️ ▶️ John Does that I put a question mark because I didn’t check that. Is that the case? You can’t do extended display. You can only mirror the display. That

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t sound right. I was thinking about a desk at work. If I’m forced to get a laptop to replace

⏹️ ▶️ John my current Mac Pro at work, I would actually choose to do it mirrored just so my windows wouldn’t move every

⏹️ ▶️ John time I plugged in unplugged. I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey think you’re the only human who would ever say that

⏹️ ▶️ John because I only like one screen. I would only ever look at like the main screen, right? And what I would do is get a 15 inch

⏹️ ▶️ John and set it to the max like FACO resolution and just have it be the same on my 24 inch

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor. Anyway, you are insane, sir. I don’t know if that’s the case. We’ll leave a question mark.

⏹️ ▶️ John FaceTime camera downgraded from 720 P to 480 P. I put a question mark after that, but I think it’s true,

⏹️ ▶️ John right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Two things. First of all, the real time follow up. Nobody underscore in the chat room is quoting the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco specs page, and it’s right there on the specs page. Just does support display spanning ad mirroring.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not a problem. And then secondly, who cares about the resolution of the front camera?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is one of those megapixel race things where the resolution has never mattered.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, 480 is pushing it, don’t you think?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it goes from a crappy camera with more pixels to a crappy camera with less pixels.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Either way, you’re getting crappy images. It’s not made for quality. It’s made for just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco barely being good enough to do FaceTime. That’s all it’s for.

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey needs to say he’s beautiful baby’s face in HD. Sure. And so do I, for that matter. Everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John does. What Marco said is probably true about the light gathering ability of those pixels. I don’t think it’s a big deal.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I assume it was kind of mostly there for cost savings, but I don’t think any I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know 480 I think it’s the type of thing I would notice 480 versus 720. I think I would notice that but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s just kind of a shame. Let me see. You know it’s going to be 720 and like a revision or two like I’m going to I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John going to pull a Marcus Brown layer and say guaranteed two or three revisions from now that camera will not be 480 quote

⏹️ ▶️ John me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, it’s very possible. Yeah, I’m just saying it probably isn’t that big of a deal So

⏹️ ▶️ John this will be just like the one year that it came with a 480 anyway Not a big deal, but something to keep in mind if

⏹️ ▶️ John you really care about having HD pictures while you whatever like just use your phone It’s got a higher definition camera

⏹️ ▶️ John to do FaceTime stuff Yeah, I’m gonna skip the three-finger drag thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Thanks a lot to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our three sponsors this week. I can’t even read

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I can fit one more item in while you search Ah!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Fracture, igloo, and Squarespace, and we will see you next week. Ha ha! I beat you. Oh, no.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him, cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M Auntie

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Harmon, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Syracuse, it’s accidental Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Dude we’ve got to put a time limit on follow-up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I like this is ridiculous like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all right So let’s save it by talking Nintendo, but we this is a

⏹️ ▶️ John topic too I mean like I I think just because we talked about it on the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John show which makes it follow up on this show Doesn’t make it any less of a topic than it

⏹️ ▶️ John was last week. You know what I mean? It’s still the same subject

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John And I also blame Marco for going to England and delaying the show because we would not have had this much follow-up if we had Recorded on Wednesday,

⏹️ ▶️ John we would have had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two days less believe me. It would have been pretty similar

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I know. I I think I think that’s an inch It’s an interesting machine with a lot of interesting compromises

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s worth talking about.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, yeah, I agree So now let’s talk about something potentially uplifting and let’s get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey our Nintendo chat out of the way real quick Because that’ll totally be quick. Are you serious? Actually?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. No, what about the six plus you want to talk about that? That’ll be a topic and it’ll be quick ish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I went on this trip and I brought with me a six plus to do the Local SIM card

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing because it’s my six pluses unlocked. I bought it for developer testing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let me let me stop you there Where did you get your local SIM because I’ve never done this and I’m very intrigued by the whole process

⏹️ ▶️ Marco process. I had never done it either, but I was tipped off in advance by our friend Daniel Jaca that this was really easy in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco England. It varies by country. Some places it’s easier than others. But in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco England, you can just go… There’s a store in the airport. I walked out of customs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and while waiting for my ride, there was a store right there that sold Sims. So I walked in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they did it right there. I paid £30 for a sim on the Carrier 3 and it supports… £30 got me 30 days of unlimited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco data, some number of local UK minutes that I would never use, and even tethering with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that. And I asked the guy, I’m like, well, I’m going to Ireland in two weeks. He said, you know, not every sim in England will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco work in Ireland. Three is one of the only ones that does. And I asked the guy, oh, does it work there? He said, yeah, but there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a limit on the tethering there. I’m like, oh, 25 gigs. Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco god, that’s amazing. Oh, okay, so don’t worry, that won’t be a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, £30 got me all that, and some people were saying they got a very similar plan for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco £15 somewhere else, so that might have even been overpriced.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would absolutely pay £30 for that, are you kidding me?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, I mean, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, even after the exchange rate, that is cheaper than what I pay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco per month for AT&T in my home plan, and it comes with unlimited day. I mean, it’s like that’s a better plan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I have at home for less money. So I did that, uh, you know, and the guy, I brought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my phone, the guy popped it in right there. And, and even though I did bring my own SIM removal tool,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco um, which is a paperclip cause I don’t have the official one. Do they not have paperclips in England along with a no top

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sheets? I didn’t want to presume that they would have paperclips. So I brought my own paperclip and my carry on bag.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So yeah, so I brought the six plus as my unlocked phone and normally I just, I just pay AT&T

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 30 bucks for the 120 megs of data and I’m just afraid to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it ever for the whole trip. So it ends up I pay 30 bucks to not have data for the whole trip,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or I accidentally use it and launch Instagram once and then I’ve blown

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cap and pay another 30 bucks every 100 megs. It’s annoying. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is the first trip where I did this and it was great. It was fantastic to just not have to think about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. just you know I have a I have an iPhone like I always have an iPhone I can just use it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever I want and it’s fine I’ll fit within whatever limit there is just by my normal usage and I can download

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff if I want to I can tether if I want to it’s great so definitely recommend

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing this if you have any unlocked phones I also in advance just in case I unlocked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my old AT&T 5s which you can do AT&T now has a thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can do it online it takes like five minutes you can just fill you fill out a form online and it like sends it them to review.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then like two minutes later, they approve it. And that’s it. So that was great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I spent the whole week using the 6+.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you download season five of Mad Men while you were asleep? You could have done that with 25 gigs.

⏹️ ▶️ John It would have been… Well, it would have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been close. No, no. It was unlimited in the UK. Oh, that’s nice. I’m limited for two weeks from now when I go back.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So tethering was great. Using it as data was great and using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 6 Plus, it felt really, really weird and huge for about the first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco half a day. And then I just forgot about it and it just felt normal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you know, there were times where it felt large in my pocket here and there. But for the most part, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, like when I first got the 6 Plus, like for my testing and everything when it came out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, that was when we were all coming from the five line of phones. And so the 6 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 6 Plus both felt really big. And I was barely able to really hold on to the 6,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let alone the 6 Plus, which just looked ridiculous. But now, having now used the 6

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for so long, going to the 6 Plus from the 6 was not a huge jump. It didn’t feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that ridiculous now that I’m used to the 6. And once I was using the 6

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Plus for half a day, it felt fine. It felt good. and I was able to enjoy it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just really, you know, just enjoy all the screen space. As a travel device, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as an everyday device, I’m not sure if I would prefer that, just because, you know, it is pretty big in the pocket, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a travel device, I loved it, because it has way better battery life. Mine happens to be unlocked, so that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco helps a lot with international stuff. And it’s nice, like, so, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on this trip, I didn’t bring an iPad at all. It’s a phablet, you had a phablet, you didn’t need it. Yeah, there was no reason to bring an iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so I had this little phone, And like, hey, you know, this is how I cut down the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weight of my laptop in my bag. I stopped bringing an iPad. Saved a pound and a half

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right there. So now I have a 15 inch laptop and no iPad and then I’m carrying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco around the same size bag as all these people with their MacBook Airs and their 10 different devices. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the 6 Plus is great. So I came home yesterday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and switched back to my 6 on AT&T now, and now the 6 feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tiny. Like it actually feels like noticeably small, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I miss the screen space, and I might actually switch back at some point. I’m not sure yet. Certainly, I’ll switch back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I go to Ireland in two weeks, but I get the 6 Plus now. Like I gave it the chance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now I understand it. I get it. I get why people like it. I like it. I’m not sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I like it enough to use it full time or to get another one next year. I don’t know about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, but I get it now. And I think all of us who were saying that it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was completely ridiculous and couldn’t understand who would buy it, I think, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give it a try sometime. And it’s really, I totally get it now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I might convert at some point, we’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ John I hope my grandkids find this episode so they can laugh at us all about the idea that like

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to decide on a certain set of differently sized pieces of glass

⏹️ ▶️ John to bring with you. Like I’ve got the really small one, which is my phone, and then I’ve got the iPad, and then I’ve got the laptop, which has the

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard, and you’re shuffling around. Well, if we can make this piece of glass a little bit bigger, then I can get rid of that piece of glass because this

⏹️ ▶️ John now fills the gap or whatever. And they’ll have every image being displayed in the back of their retinas by tiny nanomachines

⏹️ ▶️ John or something, and it’ll be like, remember when they had to pick different pieces of glass and pack them in their suitcases? What jerks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I mean, really, it is a really good device. And like, I mean, it totally eliminated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any desire I had for an iPad while I was there. I mean, I’m obviously, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I said when I bought this last iPad that I was experimenting because I had kind of fallen out of iPad usage.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And part of it I thought was just because I had like all the worst hardware. And so I got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the best iPad and to see if that would fix my usage and it hasn’t. So I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t think I’ll be getting any more iPads for a long time. Now that I see the 6 Plus, like I really do respect this device

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know, it might be the phone for me because it has more space. If you’re not going to have an iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a great balance between the two for screen space reasons and you can’t beat the battery life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And with the Apple, I had the Apple leather case on it, just like I have on the 6, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Apple leather case, grip is perfectly fine. I had no issues with feeling like I was going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to drop it at all. One handedness was obviously not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In my limited usage of it during this few days, it didn’t really come up. wasn’t really a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Once the watch comes out, it’ll be even less of a problem because there’ll be less need to use it one-handed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ll see. Another

⏹️ ▶️ John size piece of glass. Like, it’s this continuum from the big piece of glass to the smallest.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s like, how many sizes in between do I need? Can I eliminate a device by having

⏹️ ▶️ John a really, really tiny one and then a bigger gap and then a bigger one? Or like, what is the right number of pieces

⏹️ ▶️ John of glass sizes from small to big? And what you’re describing, Marco, is the

⏹️ ▶️ John shuffling of the structure of that internally. And now all of a sudden, there’s going to be a new a new tiny piece of glass coming

⏹️ ▶️ John in. You’re like, that may let me make my other piece of glass bigger, because the small one will figure

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s all just about like, how, how big is the little light up picture that I’m seeing? And how many of those

⏹️ ▶️ John little pictures do I have to carry around with me? And I think the other aspect of this is that it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John really just a bunch of interchangeable different size pieces of glass, because to a degree that we’re that is still slightly

⏹️ ▶️ John uncomfortable. These are separate devices. And yes, iCloud. and yes, you know, the web and email

⏹️ ▶️ John and Twitter and things being and you know, all that business that tries to make them feel kind of like the same thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re not like, that is not synchronized to the degree where you’re like, this is just a differently

⏹️ ▶️ John sized window into one into my world digital crap. A lot of it’s like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John But maybe a game is installed here and not there. Or maybe you can’t play a game here and out there. Maybe this thing has an app that that thing

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t maybe if I edit a document over here, I got to wait for it to sync over there. Maybe from in the middle, you know, with handoff in

⏹️ ▶️ John between them and then the gap between iPad and phone and the gap between the iOS devices and the Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ John We just need to fast forward like 300 years because like this, I can see where this is going and we’re not quite there yet and

⏹️ ▶️ John also frustrating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All I know is Mike Hurley is going to be intolerable after hearing this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I know. It’s cool. Because like, you know, because I’m connected there like, does Steven have one to see even here in the chat?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Do you have one too? And I know Federico has been trying to six plus Mike has had one since it came out. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mike’s been telling them Oh, the six plus is the best and they all didn’t believe him and now Federico is basically converted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Stephen Yeah, yeah, he did too. So Stephen you converted to I think I think he also said that he like respected it and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco appreciated it

⏹️ ▶️ John Just watch the guy that watch was gonna happen when the watch comes cuz that’s gonna screw up Everybody’s lineup of little glass squares or rectangles,

⏹️ ▶️ John right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Real-time follow-up Stephen Hackett said he had a loaner but he will be going for the larger

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone the next time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I think this is a Because this is the year of all of us realizing that the big screen stuff is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good. I got my… Oh, and this was yet another trip. Again, last week I’m saying, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, you know, maybe I’ll go with the smaller screen on my next laptop, get a small laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then I take this trip where I’m working on my slides until the last minute, of course,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I always am. And I’m like, man, I am so glad I have this big screen. On the plane on the way home,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m working on an overcast and Xcode. I’m like, man, I’m so glad I have this 15-inch laptop. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this is the year where I admit to myself that even though the small stuff is all sexy, uh, I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enjoy using the bigger stuff more.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So

⏹️ ▶️ John you were just saying how there’s not so long ago, I think both of you were saying that if Apple made a four

⏹️ ▶️ John inch version of the iPhone, the next version of the iPhone you might consider getting in instead of the six size.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you’ve gone totally not only getting used to the six, but saying, in fact, you’ll go possibly in the other direction. So if

⏹️ ▶️ John the, so the market for it, do you think there’s still a market for a smaller size of iPhone or no?

⏹️ ▶️ John Just based on, I mean, for you, obviously not. You see, you’re not going to buy one, but do you think

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple should still make one?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I honestly don’t know. They could, they could sell it. I mean, you know, people would buy it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who would buy it? Besides John Gruber? I don’t know. Would he still

⏹️ ▶️ John buy it? Like, it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco could be that just like

⏹️ ▶️ John through, through sort of indoctrination by forcing everyone in the Apple, you know, everyone who wants

⏹️ ▶️ John a new iPhone being forced, is the smallest one you can get. Just deal with it for a year. And then,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, like we said, it could be that you go back to the old size and it seems ridiculously small to you. I still find

⏹️ ▶️ John the six again, not so much in the hand, but as you said, in the pocket, just my plain old

⏹️ ▶️ John six. How long have I had it now? A couple months. Yeah. In the pocket, I still feel

⏹️ ▶️ John like, man, I remember my other one was not such a hassle in my pocket and usage fine. I’m okay

⏹️ ▶️ John with it in the pocket. It feels small. But of course, I have all iPod touch running around the house and I pick them up and I say

⏹️ ▶️ John the pocket, you know, it’s worth it to deal with the pocket

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing to, you know, exactly. It’s always a tradeoff, right? And that’s what the six plus like it’s a, it’s a tradeoff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is significantly bigger in the pocket. It is harder to use one handed than, than the four inch phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t necessarily think it’s harder to use one handed than the six. Uh, I, I would say compared to the six,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s about the same. Like I don’t, I really don’t think it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco harder to use than the the six. Uh, and it goes, you know, either way, like you’re not reaching the whole screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either way, you’re changing your grips in such a way that you got to kind of like have like this wide claw and kind of hover over things like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s fine. When I was going for the trip, I have two unlocked phones. Now I have the five S and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco six plus and I, I, I charged up both and I, I launched, I have all my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff on both. And, and I played with the five S for a few minutes and it was just too tiny. Like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco loved how tiny it felt in my hand, but when I tried to do anything on it, I loved how I could reach everything,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like it was just I felt cramped. I felt like I had no screen space and that was even before I was used to the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco six plus. Now that I’m used to the six plus the six almost feels that way. You know, it’s all about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you’re used to and, and the six plus does have a better camera, not, you know, not by a huge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amount, but it is better because of the image stabilization. So it has a better camera and a significantly longer battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life. Those are pretty big advantages. So combine that with the screen space advantage

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it might be worthwhile to I don’t know. We shouldn’t rule things out because of what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re accustomed to. Because that, you know, it’s all relative. That can all change. We said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only a few months ago that they should really make a smaller phone, but in reality, once

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m used to the 6 now, the 6 feels fine. I still think that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco physical design of them being these slippery blobs is horrible, but once I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco put Apple leather cases on them, they became great. I’m fine with them now, So, you know, once I put the leather

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case on, it’s fine. It’s great. I like it a lot. And same thing, like the watch, I was hoping to go with 38 because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t like big chunky watches, but I think, you know, but then I have a fit issue, but also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 42 millimeter watch will have substantially better battery life. Apple has said it themselves.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We don’t know by how much, but it’s going to have better battery life and that’s going to matter on first generation smartwatches.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So again, you know, going a little bit bigger than I would normally be comfortable with,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it’s bringing advantages, so it’s a trade-off that’s worth it. With the laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we think the 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro is this big, heavy laptop, but compared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the 15-inch PowerBook I bought when I first converted to Macs in 2004, this thing is light.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s 4.5 pounds. That one was almost 6. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty substantial reduction in weight proportionally. It’s much thinner.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way faster of course and has all these better capabilities. We’re now saying, oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco god, this brand new MacBook, which is 2.0 pounds, is amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The 11-inch MacBook Air is 2.26 or something, 2.2 something, right? So like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s, it’s not that much lighter than the 11-inch MacBook Air, but we’re saying, oh my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco god, we’re willing to give up so much to get this and the other ones now feel really heavy. It’s all relative. It’s all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you’re used to. You know, making any kind of absolute declaration about something being too big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or too small or too heavy or not the right size for you, that can change over time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco based on what you’re used to and it can change over shorter time spans than you might expect.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just want to point out that you were complaining about all this fall about the MacBook sizing and then you you took the opportunity

⏹️ ▶️ John in the after show to discuss big iPhones, a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco topic that I believe

⏹️ ▶️ John has been covered more than adequately by the show and I’m not complaining. I am in support

⏹️ ▶️ John of you doing that. Why? Just because we’ve talked about something before doesn’t mean there isn’t more to say about the topic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh goodness. All right, are we done? Oh, we’re never done.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Thanks a lot, everybody.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s see some titles before we sign off. Oh my god, that was great. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can do significantly bigger in the pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ John Case lists.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty rough. Yeah, look who submitted

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that one. Not to

⏹️ ▶️ John say it’s bad, but it’s pretty rough. No, we’re not doing list puns as titles. It’s like the Syracuse,

⏹️ ▶️ John a county of Casey. I like going into the

⏹️ ▶️ John black hole. We are going to do Marco Polo someday when Marco plays polo.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even know what I know. It’s like a type of shirt and there’s some kind of like stupid sport that it is, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even know what the sport you don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know what the polo is. This is like the the ultimate achievement in things that Marco doesn’t know about

⏹️ ▶️ John or like references. You don’t get I made a reference to a sport that you don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh Marco. But I’m now reading this Wikipedia article on polo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John learning what polo is everyone in the chat room knows what polo is right? It’s not I’m not the only

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco person

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rich people sport. Yeah, is it like croquet on horses? It looks like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah, basically Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s stupid. What why would you do this because rich people

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco? I don’t understand how you got to this age without knowing what polo is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It has never occurred to me to even look it up I’ve never seen

⏹️ ▶️ John pole in real life, but I like I know it’s a thing that exists sent like highlight Oh my god, the field is

⏹️ ▶️ John huge! Well, they’re horses. You can’t put them on like a little basketball court.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You see this combination, this diagram of a football field and then a polo field.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re horses! They have big legs, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John run.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco god. This seems like a ridiculous sport. Why would anybody do this? Because you’re really rich and you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco horses. Why would anybody have horses?

⏹️ ▶️ John It beats like chasing a fox.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I guess, but I don’t know. I mean you have to start with the idea that it’s okay to have horses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John to just run around on That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that alone is a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John It looks really hard to like I mean you got a swing that big thing while right and riding A horse alone is

⏹️ ▶️ John hard and then swinging the thing and hitting a ball with horse looks really hard Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco horses have terrible suspension and I don’t know I mean like they’re only one horsepower