Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

108: Zero is Better Than One

In-depth coverage of the new MacBook and some other thing Apple showed at the Spring Forward event.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ John What is that background? Right? It’s from Last Exile, which is an anime series that neither one of

⏹️ ▶️ John you has heard of, let alone seen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve seen it, it’s really good. You have not. Yeah, what makes you think I haven’t seen it?

⏹️ ▶️ John Tell me about it, without Googling.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know nothing about it, I’ve never seen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it.

⏹️ ▶️ John All the great shows. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, John, why don’t you tell us about how Crossy Road is doing financially?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why would I do that when it says in the notes that we already talked about this?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, let’s not talk about this, because everyone keeps sending us the same- everyone Everyone keeps sending us the same link and I’m tired of getting it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, here’s what happens. Everybody has a bad memory. We talked about Crossy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Roads Finances on at least two episodes, maybe three. In the first one, it was before they did a major update.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In the first one, I was looking at the top grossing charts and I was saying,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco given their position on the top downloading chart, because they were one of the top handful of apps on the top free chart,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they weren’t very high on the top grossing chart. I said was, at that position on top three,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they should be making more money, and so maybe they can monetize better, because there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not really much reason to ever pay them money to play the game. And then they did an update a few days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after the episode came out, and then they very quickly jumped up the top grossing chart. And the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco following week, we talked about that, where we said, hey, looks like they fixed it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re making good money now. Great. Good for them. And so tons of people now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have only heard that first part and or only remember the first part and are telling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us, look, you are so wrong because look, they made all this money when in fact we did already talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this the following week when we said now they are making

⏹️ ▶️ John tons of money. I think we read an interview with them where they said they were they were now didn’t have to work again

⏹️ ▶️ John and made enough money to be set for life and so on and so forth. That’s why I felt like we covered it already. But this is actually a new

⏹️ ▶️ John story with updated updated financials, but the story the week after we first

⏹️ ▶️ John discussed this, basically the developer said we never have to work again. So reiterating that they still

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have to work again, even less or more, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey know, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John They really don’t have to work again. Anyway, we’ll put the link in the show notes for people who want to read the numbers, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like, I’m just reading what’s in the show notes here. $10 million on 50 million downloads. Crossy Road is a

⏹️ ▶️ John good game. They deserve to make a lot of money because they made a really good game.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. Yep. Now, the main reason I wanted to bring this up again is because of that new

⏹️ ▶️ Casey interview or piece on it that was on Polygon. Is that right? Yes, Polygon. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve gotten that link a thousand times, which I appreciate. Everyone is trying to keep us informed, which is very nice of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But we have seen it and it’s pretty much the same thing we already knew. So thank you. In other news,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we should talk about our anonymous tipster who sort of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey came through and yet sort of didn’t on the Apple event. And obviously we’ll talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Monday’s event a little bit later. But there were there was a win and there were some not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so win, not not so good results for this tipster.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you want to take us through that john and where where he where he or she did well and where they did poorly?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we kind of fell down on the previous show because at one point in the previous show I was trying to to nail

⏹️ ▶️ John down how we will know whether this whether these tips panned

⏹️ ▶️ John out because it was kind of vague and there was some bit like what are the criteria for success and then

⏹️ ▶️ John we kind of wandered off into some other topic and we didn’t really pin it down if we had it would have helped because

⏹️ ▶️ John as the keynote was going on and I’m reading people’s tweets and stuff about 50-50

⏹️ ▶️ John people were saying oh my god that tipster was a hundred percent white right, right, or ha

⏹️ ▶️ John ha that tipster didn’t know anything, nothing he said was in here. Like obviously different people

⏹️ ▶️ John saying that. One set of people like the same, we’re all watching the same presentation and some people are getting the impression and

⏹️ ▶️ John tweeting to the, to that effect that they think this tipster was either right

⏹️ ▶️ John or wrong. Um, and that’s because we didn’t really nail down success criteria. If we had like a

⏹️ ▶️ John bingo card or a check box, I think Casey, you tweeted a little check mark of like things that we would check off as

⏹️ ▶️ John the tipster was right or wrong. Yeah. But as it turns out,

⏹️ ▶️ John the tipster himself or herself gave some, uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John their own analysis of the success of their of their things. Now when when we

⏹️ ▶️ John were talking about the hub and people pointed me to the link for that av adapter

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, what is it? HDMI video output using using USB C D. V. I. Digital

⏹️ ▶️ John A. V. Multi port adapter, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? There’s two of them. Yeah, that and

⏹️ ▶️ John that is not what the tipster was talking about. The tipster explicitly said, that’s not what I was talking about. So if you think the tipster

⏹️ ▶️ John is right, because you saw that adapter, the tipster him or herself says, Nope, that’s not it,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? The forest touch thing was in the keynote with those

⏹️ ▶️ John exact words, the trackpad, the forest touch trackpad. So you got to give that one, right? So it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, at least there was only two predictions, one force touch to this hub thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right and and the force touch thing you know i don’t want to minimize that that was pretty significant um that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from what everybody’s saying yeah i mean like nobody guessed the new key switches like nobody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mark ervin didn’t say anything about new key switches he did mention a newer layout but he also said the whole thing would be narrower and i think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not we have to double check on that but i think it’s actually i think it’s the same width total or at least it’s very close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco uh just the keys themselves have like less padding between them so the keys themselves have gotten larger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I think the overall width of the keyboard is about the same but nobody said anything about the new key switch type

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the very low travel of the keys which will be controversial and and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and but the force touch trackpad I think I think that’s significant you know I think this tipster has proven himself to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be somebody in the know even even if the second hub never comes out I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I I think he or she has proven themselves to be to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well

⏹️ ▶️ John informed I don’t know about that because the forest touch was super guessable right I would be super I would be impressed by

⏹️ ▶️ John forest touch if the phrase forest touch had never appeared in a previous Apple keynote you know what I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John but because they use forest touch to describe the thing on the watch and Because the German rumor said

⏹️ ▶️ John the trackpad wasn’t going to move But would be pressure sensitive you can put that together without any actual knowledge.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know I’m saying

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a fair point. Like, I mean, you still have to be lucky. You still have to, you know, that I that’s still

⏹️ ▶️ John that was correct. Like those things matched up. I’m not saying but it’s it’s the type of thing that was guessable

⏹️ ▶️ John with not too much, you know, if you had to come up with it with the rumor that was plausible, you could have staked

⏹️ ▶️ John it your reputation on that and say, well, I feel pretty good about it. It’ll probably use the same

⏹️ ▶️ John term if they don’t know. Well, and the second thing about the hub that wasn’t announced

⏹️ ▶️ John The idea that there’s going to if the German rumors were right which they were and this thing’s just gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John have one port on it The idea that there will be a whole bunch of different adapters that you can plug into that Some of which

⏹️ ▶️ John will have multiple USB ports kind of like hub is also kind of a gimme But they didn’t but Apple didn’t announce that

⏹️ ▶️ John and as we discussed it’s very rare than anyone Who’s going to leak knows

⏹️ ▶️ John when or when when products are going to be announced, right? it. So it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John mean this product doesn’t exist, but it does mean that this product was not announced at that keynote. And

⏹️ ▶️ John that was specifically this tipster’s prediction. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess I’m going to give like a, I’m going to give it less than 50% grade because it’s like two

⏹️ ▶️ John predictions. One came true, but the one that came true was guessable. And the one that didn’t was, was the quote unquote most

⏹️ ▶️ John interesting one. We’ll just put this in the back burner for now and see if that however comes

⏹️ ▶️ John out. But it just goes to show Even when you get boring rumors, you can’t count on them being right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I would, I would, I would give a little bit better grade. I would say more like, you know, 67%. Cause I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t want to deal with repeating numbers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, what was interesting to me about, um, the followup email we got from this tipster was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that this individual seemed utterly convinced that it was a thing because it was something that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they claim to have seen at work. Um, and I, I, maybe they’ve worked on it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe they haven’t, but, um, you it’s something that they’re so confident in existing that they said

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s going to happen. It’s just a matter of when. And those are my words, but that was kind of the message we got.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I thought that was interesting. And it’s kind of granted, if, if, if you were fabricating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all this and wanted to string us along, that’s exactly what you would say. However, I thought it was interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And in the way they talked about things, I’m not going to read this verbatim. But the way they talked about things,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it certainly sounded like it sounded to me like it was genuine. But how can you really tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s an email? So I’m curious to see what happens over the next six months or so and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to see if maybe this hub thing is a is a is

⏹️ ▶️ John the real deal or not. I think even if this tipster is 100% authentic, I think they don’t understand

⏹️ ▶️ John how products get released. Like I say we 100% believe them and they’ve seen this,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, tons of people in Apple inside Apple have it, it’s all over the place until the day they ship it at any point,

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple could say, you know what? Now we’re not going to do this one. Right. And so how can you say, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John this definitely will be shipping. You don’t know, we’ll be shipping unless you’re the one who makes the decision for it to ship. Right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, even even if everyone inside Apple has this hub and has been testing it for months and months does not mean it’s ever

⏹️ ▶️ John going to ship. Right. So that I feel like, you know, if you have

⏹️ ▶️ John this information, you shouldn’t be like, how can you so confidently assert unless you’re trying to snow somebody

⏹️ ▶️ John that like it’s definitely gonna ship it’s gonna be thing until until something ships it’s not gonna ship I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John even Apple can put it up on their website and tell us that snow leopards gonna have ZFS support but it still it ships

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t it hasn’t shipped right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s true you don’t know how funny is the adapter that did ship

⏹️ ▶️ John oh I mean it $80 makes me stop laughing real fast that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco makes me laugh more because it’s just it’s so audacious I mean it’s it’s it’s This is amazing. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John so I think this is, I mean, we don’t want to spend too much time on tips and tipsters, but this was our experiment with tips.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was, I would call it a bust. It was not, it was a boring tip that didn’t come 100% true. We left

⏹️ ▶️ John in a situation where we’re like, well, they might know something they might not. Tips are boring.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, we probably won’t do this again. Oh well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I like this so much more than you do. So here’s what I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John would love. All right,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so please email Mark on your tips. Maybe. I think there’s some kind of law

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in California against soliciting people to break NDAs, so I don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do that. However, I think it would be really funny if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just became a thing that we got fairly accurate tips about the most boring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John possible.

⏹️ ▶️ John About the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco packaging.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John What material will the packaging be?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How many USB ports the next Mac Mini will have.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Just the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey most boring…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m sure There’s far more boring stuff than that like you know what if the airport

⏹️ ▶️ Marco express gets gigabit like it’s like all sorts of like Stupid little things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would love it if we became like the the place where people sent those tips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To our show you know you can you can send Mark Gurman all like the actual stuff anybody cares about And you can send

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us the stuff that is so boring That you might not even get fired for sending it to us because it’s that boring

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well to be fair if anyone is going to really get off on some sort of boring god-awful ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tip, it’s probably the three of us. Yeah, that’s a fair point. So play to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey your audience,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tipsters. Our first sponsor this week is Casper. Casper is an online retailer of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco premium mattresses for a fraction of the price. When I’ve gone to buy a mattress, and I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco done that a few times now, because we have a house, so we had to furnish a guest room and all sorts of stuff. So I buy mattresses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe every 10 years for some reason or five years. And time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like a high pressure salesman, just like a car dealership. It’s hilarious how high pressure they are.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And kind of wheeling and dealing. You always feel like you’re overpaying because the prices are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco extremely flexible. And, oh, well, we can’t discount this, but we can throw in a free pillow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something. There’s all this wheeling and dealing you have to do to negotiate various things. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a crappy experience from everybody’s point of view. And that’s not even to mention the actual trying to the mattresses, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, you lie on this plastic covered mattress in a store for a few seconds and you’re like, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s soft, I guess. And you go on the next one, this is soft, too, I guess. Do I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want pillow topping? Do I want it to be tall pillow topping? There’s so many.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s so hard to know and to choose. Casper, you order it online. And this sounds,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at first, kind of crazy. You can’t try it. They have a risk-free trial policy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can try it in your home for up to 100 days. And if you don’t like it after that, it’s more than three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco months. If you don’t like it after more than three months, you can call them and they will arrange to have it picked up and give you a refund.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s that easy. Now, Casper Mattresses, they’re pretty sure you’re going to like them because they provide resilience,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long-lasting support of comfort. It’s one of a kind because what they did was, you know, memory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco foam by itself, pure memory foam is polarizing. A lot of people think it’s like too hot or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not bouncy enough or whatever. And pure other foams and pure springs can also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be, there’s like pluses and minuses. What they’ve done, they have a hybrid approach that combines

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the best. It combines premium latex foam with memory foam to really give you the best of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both worlds. So they call it just the right sink, just the right bounce. So you have a lot of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same benefits of pure memory foam, but without that hotness that you get from it sometimes. you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and all this stuff, this is all made in America. So I’ve heard from a rumor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mill that John Syracuse has a Casper. Is that true, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I didn’t get one when we had our code, so I had to wait around until we had another code to buy it with, and I did.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I just have one tidbit to add. We all talked about the little box that it comes in, how it expands and all

⏹️ ▶️ John that cool stuff. The box they send it in has a label on top of it that says different sizes,

⏹️ ▶️ John like twin, queen, king, whatever it is, right? And with and like with checkboxes

⏹️ ▶️ John and, you know, we got a small one. So whatever it was, was twin twin was checked off, right? My question

⏹️ ▶️ John is, if you get a king size one, does it come in that same box and they just check off king?

⏹️ ▶️ John Because that will be even cooler because my it’s a twin size bed and it’s a small box. You think, wow, I can’t imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John twin size bed in there. And you fit you open up, you follow the instructions, they give you like a little letter opener tool to open the thing and it expands

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s really cool. But all I can I can think about how much cooler it would be is if in that same box, they sent you a king

⏹️ ▶️ John size one, and how much that would expand and how much that would be compressed. Anyway, it’s exciting. Unfortunately,

⏹️ ▶️ John you only get to do it once

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John inflated. And then it just becomes a really nice bed. And I was impressed. It’s really nice. I don’t like I don’t typically like

⏹️ ▶️ John memory foam mattresses because I feel like they they like grip me too much. This one does not do that. So if you’ve tried

⏹️ ▶️ John pure memory foam mattresses and don’t like them, this mattress is not like that. It’s a nice kind of like hybrid between.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep, I agree. So all this is available at shockingly reasonable prices. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally, a good mattress, usually if you want something high quality, it’s going to last like a decade or more and be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good the whole time. You’re usually paying like $1,500, $2,000 for something like that. Casper mattresses cost between $500 for a twin, all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way up to $950 for a king. Now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco come on, I mean, that’s ridiculously cheap. $950 for a premium quality king size mattress.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s delivered to your house. I mean, that’s crazy talk. Also, if you go to slash

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP and use code ATP at checkout, you also get $50 off. So that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way, you can have a king for $900. You can have a queen for $800, full-size for $700. I mean, these are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredibly good prices for high-quality mattresses. So check it out. slash ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks a lot once again to Casper. You really should check these out. It’s an incredible deal. trial for 100 days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made in America. Just the right sync, just the right bounce. Thanks a lot to Casper.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we should talk about the Apple event from Monday. And I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how you guys want to go through this. I don’t know if you want to do it in chronological order, which would require one of us remembering what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the order of the events were. Who cares? New MacBook. All right, new MacBook. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what do we think?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John, you’re the least likely one of us to buy one.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if I’m the least likely. Casey’s probably the least likely. Why do you say that? You’ve got the oldest Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John and the one most in need of replacement, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I love that we’re arguing about this. Well, I probably do need to replace my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey personal Mac, and I know that I’m getting a new work Mac because it’s been three years now, and that’s apparently the cycle

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re on. But no, I don’t suspect that I’m going to be buying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a new MacBook. here now, today,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I use USB often enough that I would want to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have at least one, if not a couple of ports. That being said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I only ever really use one USB port at a time. So there’s really no reason why I couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get one of these absurd $80 adapters or the Phantom hub that doesn’t exist, that will exist, that may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not exist, that our tipster talked about. Which should provide you with two USB ports. Right, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, in theory that would be enough, but. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just, I think if nothing else, I’d want something with a little more horsepower. I know a lot of people have been lamenting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that apparently the, um, the performance characteristics are roughly on par with a 2012

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook air, which what, with it being 2015, that’s a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the old side. And as I’m one to buy computers every three to four years,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey usually. I would want a computer that’s basically more than I would ever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need today, so that in three or four years, it’s exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I need.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s why I was saying that you are not, that I’m not the least likely to get one. You probably are. Whereas I have an old MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Air and I could replace it with this new one, and if it only just eliminated the scream of the

⏹️ ▶️ John fan as my kids play Minecraft incessantly on it, it would be an upgrade.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It does. It has no fan. has no fan. Yeah, exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John But anyway, like the thing about this laptop, first of all, the German rumor was 100%

⏹️ ▶️ John right. This is what they mocked up. I don’t think they got anything wrong. Trackpad doesn’t move. It’s got one port on

⏹️ ▶️ John the other side is headphones. The keyboard was laid out just like they said it was. It’s retina like 100% on the nose.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I have to think that it would have been a cooler keynote if we didn’t know all that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t you think it would have been more exciting? It’s the same thing. Like, you know, we got spoiled and it’s not like Star Wars where you have a fighting

⏹️ ▶️ John chance. I’ve been trying to avoid Star Wars Episode Seven spoilers and just by not going to movie sites and like you

⏹️ ▶️ John can pretty much do that. But I was going to say I’ve had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco zero spoilers from Star Wars because I don’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Right. But I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess if I had I don’t think it would have been possible for me to avoid this. You know, it would

⏹️ ▶️ John just tweeted at me too much like and you know, I don’t mind. I wasn’t trying to avoid it. I went to it, but it

⏹️ ▶️ John does take away from the event and the glamour of the event. But this is exactly what they said it was going

⏹️ ▶️ John to be. We talked about this at length about, you know, if it does come with one port,

⏹️ ▶️ John why would it only have one port? What do I get with one port that I don’t get with two ports? And we speculated a lot about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. As it turns out, Apple felt no reason to try to justify the decision

⏹️ ▶️ John to have one port. They barely even emphasized the fact that it has one port. They talked all about the

⏹️ ▶️ John attributes of the port, which we talked about as well. Yes, it’s, you know, the USB 3 and with the

⏹️ ▶️ John type C connector that can be reversible, which we all like, and you can put display over it. You know, we talked about all this stuff before that was

⏹️ ▶️ John all there but they did not even they didn’t even they weren’t defensive at all about the fact that there was one of

⏹️ ▶️ John them they didn’t even emphasize it that there was one of them like if you weren’t paying attention you would just assume

⏹️ ▶️ John that might assume there was one on the other side they didn’t emphasize the fact that they took away MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t say anything about you know MagSafe was great but it’s just too big to fit on that like they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t give a reason or an explanation or talk about MagSafe at all. Like it was just,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the thing. They didn’t even say how the thing would be charged, obviously through the

⏹️ ▶️ John one port, but they didn’t, they didn’t emphasize that. They didn’t, they didn’t show it being plugged in. They didn’t show

⏹️ ▶️ John the power adapter as far as I can recall. They certainly didn’t, they didn’t show you plugging that adapter

⏹️ ▶️ John into it. Like as far as Apple’s presentation and marketing materials are concerned,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is a disembodied notebook that never needs to be connected to anything. Like, and we all know it plugs into charge, whatever, But all the things

⏹️ ▶️ John that we talked about, like, if this hadn’t, if this product had not leaked, and we hadn’t all like

⏹️ ▶️ John anyone was interested, hadn’t talked about it amongst ourselves for a long time, I think we would have watched an intro to you and said,

⏹️ ▶️ John Wait a second, how do you power it? And like, we would have got, you know, because they were they did not emphasize

⏹️ ▶️ John the things that are different about this notebook in terms of how it’s powered, how many ports it has or anything like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John All they did was talk about the benefits of USB type C. And with no discussion of the drawbacks,

⏹️ ▶️ John which I thought was interesting, because in the jobs era, very frequently, they felt the need to be proactively,

⏹️ ▶️ John preemptively defensive about large changes, like even when they took away the floppy drive or anything, there was

⏹️ ▶️ John there’d be some kind of statement about you think you need it, but you don’t trust us, you know, none of that here. It was just like,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is what it is. And you know, it’s the new MacBook.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I have a couple more thoughts. When you guys asked, you know, would I buy one of these? The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chat room got particularly grumbly because they said, oh, this isn’t the computer for me. Well, yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know that. But the whole point of this little thought exercise was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would I buy one or would it serve my needs, just yes or no? And I don’t think the answer – I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the answer is no. Additionally, people in the chat are saying, well, CPU performance isn’t the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey issue. I wouldn’t be so sure. Obviously if you were compiling large projects,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then that could be CPU bound, although not necessarily. especially for work specifically,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey less so for home, but for work, when you’re living in a VM all day,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any extra bit of CPU power is certainly helpful. And furthermore, probably the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey biggest issue I have with this machine is that eight gigs of RAM, I don’t think is sufficient for the sorts of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things that I do on a regular basis, especially at work, especially running a Windows VM

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all the time. And there’s no way to get more because there’s no build to order option. So no matter how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you slice it, I don’t really think this is for me. Additionally, if you’ve ever transcoded in Handbrake,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re obviously going to want something that has a little bit more CPU performance than a 2012 MacBook Air. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I do that every day, but I do it often enough that I’m going to want to have more CPU performance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do I need it? Maybe not, but I want to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, I mean, I think you can look at this machine and very obviously, you can know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re listening to this show, the chances are this is not gonna be your main machine. Like anyone listening

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this show, If you’re enough into computers, if there’s a good chance a lot of our listeners are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco developers, anyone listening to this show, this is probably not your main machine, period.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, that’s it. This machine is, for a lot of the same reasons people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bought 11-inch MacBook Airs so far. And the 11-inch MacBook Air was actually, in some ways, more capable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it had full Thunderbolt expansion and everything, and more ports. But for the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco part, it had similar issues and similar limitations. people buy the 11-inch air

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mostly because either they’re carrying it a lot every day like on their shoulder or on their back and they really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need like the smallest weight possible and or they fly a lot especially if they’re flying coach

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where the tray tables are so small and if the person ahead of you like leans back an inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which everybody sitting in front of me always does the second the plane is like the second the wheels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are off the ground boom the seats in your face and if that’s the case and if you want to work a plane,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty much the only laptop you can really get is the 11-inch. The 13s even have trouble.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The 15s… I know because I usually have a 15. There’s pretty much no hope of using a 15 on a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Coke’s tray table. So if you’re flying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot, or if the weight, if the carry weight is extremely important to you, then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is a really good machine as a travel machine or as a portable machine. If you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be doing like coding work on it though, then it’s really probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not for you because you know coding you have a number of issues.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco For me the biggest issue is actually not the CPU speed, it’s the screen space. It has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a scaling mode that lets it go up to 1440 wide simulated, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the native res of the 15. Although the 15 goes higher and I use it higher. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has a scale that goes up to that. I don’t know how useful that’ll be. I mean, the 15 you can scale up to 1920 wide,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s too tiny for me to use comfortably. And I have 20, 20 vision so far.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, not for long, probably, but right now I still have good vision and I can’t use it at that size.

⏹️ ▶️ John People asked about that on Twitter. Someone asked, do you think you could do development in this? And what I said

⏹️ ▶️ John is, yeah, probably. The question wasn’t whether Marco could do development on

⏹️ ▶️ John it, like can one do development on this and I think that the the CPU,

⏹️ ▶️ John the RAM, the screen space, everything about it is sufficient to develop

⏹️ ▶️ John an iOS or a Mac app. If you don’t know any better and if you don’t know how much faster it is on a faster

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac it’s fine like it will get the job done you’ll wait longer for compiles, your

⏹️ ▶️ John windows will be more compressed, you won’t be able to do have the kind of layouts that you may be accustomed to you,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you will be able to do it. This is as opposed to like, is this a good machine for

⏹️ ▶️ John doing web development where you have to have five windows VMs running all the time? No, it is not right because that

⏹️ ▶️ John is like that’s a capability thing like there were you just it’s just a no go. And by the way, someone john

⏹️ ▶️ John l 2112 rush fan, I guess, in the in the chat says, SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John swap makes RAM limits less important. I’m sure that there are people at Apple that think that, but

⏹️ ▶️ John they are not thinking clearly or not engineers. Because Yes, like technically

⏹️ ▶️ John it makes it less important than it was, but it is still super duper important. Like the

⏹️ ▶️ John difference in speed between disk and SSD is huge. The difference in speed between

⏹️ ▶️ John RAM and SSD is also still remains huge. So

⏹️ ▶️ John having only eight gigs of RAM, don’t assume, well, it’s eight gigs of RAM, but it’s all SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John and the SSDs are really fast, so it’s not so bad. You cannot run

⏹️ ▶️ John five Windows 7 VMs for different versions of IE all at the same time in this and not

⏹️ ▶️ John suffer. Yeah. Right, it’s just not going to happen for you, right? So I think you can do

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS development. You can’t do anything that really, really, really needs more than 8 gigs. I just picked VMs

⏹️ ▶️ John because that’s something for my work life where I’m constantly running tons of VMs. And no matter how small you make them,

⏹️ ▶️ John they can tend to be very big. and disk space similar. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John you try to keep the VM small, but as they proliferate, they start to fill up your disk and you realize you’re spending half of your disk on stupid

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows VMs. And if you put them on external disks, where are you gonna plug the external disk and now you got a dongle, blah, blah,

⏹️ ▶️ John blah. So it’s not a great machine for development, but you can get it done. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I really think that there are a lot of people who, like I bet a lot of the most amazing apps

⏹️ ▶️ John that we all use were developed, especially if it’s like a developer’s first app, were developed on Macs that we would all consider

⏹️ ▶️ John like Insufficient to do development. Oh, I need a really fancy fast computer. It’s like yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John you really want a really fancy fast computer But sometimes you just got to make do with what you have and you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t actually get it done You’ll just wait longer for compiles and go make yourself coffee You

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know right and and also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, you know keep in mind that things do move forward like Xcode now running on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hardware from Seven years ago is not gonna be as good as Xcode seven years ago was running

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on that hardware You know like like Xcode has gotten bigger and the compiler has gotten bigger if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you use any Swift Swift is much slower to compile than just to see so far And I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they fix that entirely with the incremental compilation anyway It at least was the simulators

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are larger like they need more screen space to show an accurate simulator Because the iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco devices have gotten larger and like oh and now you have possibly the watch simulator

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next to the iOS simulator and And so you have all these windows that have to be open. God

⏹️ ▶️ Marco help you if you want a documentation window also. I mean, you have the organizer and you’re submitting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things to iTunes Connect. I mean, there’s a lot of screen space needs when you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing modern iOS development, and they keep increasing as the hardware gets bigger and the simulators get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger and you have more things you need to do. So again, you’re right, John. If you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco want to do development, and you know if whenever you say oh well this kind of computer is not suitable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for development you’ll instantly get tons of replies people saying i have one of those and i develop on it just fine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and yes you can do it but it’s all like you can do it but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a lot nicer if you have you know more screen space some more ram and a faster cpu

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s best not to know how much faster things are

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco on a faster computer because once you know and

⏹️ ▶️ John then you go back to the other one you’re like oh i can’t do this whereas if you just don’t know like this is the first i know a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John people like back in the day like they got their very first Mac and whatever they were doing was that they were just super happy because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like wow I really like it it’s shiny it’s it’s neat it can do something I can do something with it I couldn’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John before and they have no other Mac to compare it to speed wise right like they’re doing an all-new

⏹️ ▶️ John thing like how do they compare how long it takes to make a DVD and iDVD if they’ve never made a DVD before

⏹️ ▶️ John and little do they know that that same task of like you know making the DVD at the end could

⏹️ ▶️ John be like 5x faster on a big fancy Mac it’s like oh you you can’t use that to make DVDs. They don’t know they can’t let

⏹️ ▶️ John you know that as far as they’re concerned, this is just how long it takes. So if you’ve never built an iOS app, and you you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, click build and run and it takes a certain amount of time, you’re just like, I guess that’s the amount of time it takes. And honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ John it probably takes way longer than you would think it would ever take on any computers. Like if you’ve never done if you’ve never compiled anything before,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, wow, I guess compiling takes a long time. But whatever time your first Mac takes, you’re like, alright.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know, this is like a 2012 MacBook Air, which is not particularly fast to begin

⏹️ ▶️ John with. But just you know, people people just deal with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. I’ve mentioned before, I had one of the very first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco generation base model MacBook Airs in 2008. And that was the 1.6 gigahertz, really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really slow processor that would overheat for a lot of people. I had that. I developed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Instapaper partly on that. When I was on the train going to and from Tumblr, I would be working on Instapaper in Xcode

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on that MacBook Air, the first gen that everybody hated. I did it. It sucked,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did it and I knew it sucked because I was going home to the computer that John is still using today.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was going home to that awesome Mac Pro. So I knew, but mainly the issue

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’ve always had with doing development work on laptops, it’s always screen space first. Performance is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, inconvenient when it’s really bad like the MacBook Air. But for the most part,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screen space is always my limiting factor. And so from that point of view, you know, look, this machine,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re worried about screen space, if you’re worried about performance and if you worried about the number of ports

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not the machine for you period that’s it like you can get it if you really want it because it’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sexy and light like you can get it but it’s not the best choice for you I would say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know a lot of people have not really given this a lot of a lot of credit but the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the update to the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro at the same time which is already available

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people have already disassembled it the update to that I think is is really interesting as well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because, you know, it is not like a noteworthy computer. It is not like they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t replace that and everyone goes, whoo, it’s so it’s so great. I want to buy one of those immediately. Like no one on CNN

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is talking about 13 inch retina MacBook Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was excited about I’ve always thought that’s been a great machine, like just a great compromise between you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gotten so thin over the years once the 13 started to get is like as thin as almost as thin as an air

⏹️ ▶️ John and then the fact that they gave it the new trackpad and the screen has always been good. that I’ve always said that that’s a great machine, but

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re right, it’s not, it doesn’t make headlines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, but it is like the middle of the line. Like to me, there’s three MacBooks worth getting, really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like these days. I used to say the 13-inch Retina, I mean the 13-inch Air, was like the default one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get. These days I’m not so sure. These days I think I would say 13-inch Retina. It would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be like the default one, like if you don’t have any specific needs, you just kinda like general purpose, all things, okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get 13-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Retina.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would say the 13-inch Retina or this one, depending on who’s buying it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, maybe. Okay, but so this one like this one, I think, as I said,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this one directly replaces the 11 inch MacBook Air, and I think the 13 inch retina

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of already replaced the 13 inch MacBook Air and then the 15 inch retina. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s I think those are the three laptops that are worth getting this new one for those super portable 13

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch retina for normal 15 inch retina for pro. That’s like if you have if you need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the pro things, which is the more screen space, the more horsepower, you know, some different ports. But for the most part, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco talking about screen space and horsepower. I did say last time I was thinking about buying one of these things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now I’m not. So what changed you? I started thinking about when I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use my laptop. And you know, what I had said last time was I find that I’m that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not frequently getting coding work done every year or whenever I go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on trips. I’m not getting coding work done as much as I want to. And therefore, I can go with a smaller screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco space. I started thinking, the times I do go on trips where I do need to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco significant work done, one of the biggest ones is WWDC every year, where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I often need to do coding work for labs and stuff, or installing new betas and testing stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And in the last few years, I’ve edited this show. And so I have podcast editing, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love having tons of screen space for because Logic is a massive screen space hog. So I have podcast editing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I have Xcode on this one trip I take every year. And I don’t take that many trips.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this is one where if I had the small screen, I could do those things on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. But I would really regret not having the 15 during those times.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to wait until Broadwell come to the 15 inch and probably just buy one of those because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would kill me if I spent those trips in the next few years using this tiny little screen and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just kicking myself saying, man, I wish I could just would have just gotten the 15 because when I’m doing these few important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things, I really, really need it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What I would like to know is, who is this computer for? What is the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey target audience for this computer? And I’m thinking about it and I’m thinking, well, why

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would I buy this? Who would I buy it for? And why would I buy it? The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey first person that comes to mind, of course, is Erin. And I got her a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook Air for her birthday last year. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then I thought to myself, OK, well, what would stop her from using this? Would the CPU performance? Absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not. Would the disk space? Absolutely not. She stores nothing on her computer. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what she does have hanging off of her MacBook Air is a couple of Fitbit adapters,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to charge with and one that is like the general communication little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nubbin thing. That’s a technical term. And obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Casey she could charge the Fitbit by way of say an iPhone charger or something like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But if she wanted the Fitbit to communicate with her computer and not with her phone, which I believe is an option

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as well, I don’t have a Fitbit so I’m talking a little bit out of my comfort zone, she would still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need at least one traditional USB port.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that would require one of these ridiculous $80, um, $80 dongles.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s kind of unfortunate, but if it wasn’t for her Fitbit, say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hypothetically, if she had an Apple watch, she would pretty much never plug in any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey USB device for any reason whatsoever. Now, the other obvious thought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had was, well, what about students? And people in the chat are saying that as well. Well, that makes sense

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too. And granted, I haven’t been a student in over a decade, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey last time I was anywhere near students, USB drives, you know, uh, thumb drives,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever you would like to call them, were a big thing and people were using them a lot. Now that doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean that’ll continue tomorrow. It doesn’t mean that it’ll be that way forever, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today not being able to use a thumb drive without a freaking $80 adapter,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s kind of crummy. So, you know, who is this for? Is it for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey these quote unquote business people at my job? You know, the project managers and the other business

⏹️ ▶️ Casey consultants, maybe. But again, I mean, thumb drives are a thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I, I’m, I don’t see that going away soon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So who is this machine really for?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, again, I think it’s people who fly a lot and coach, you know, or who fly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot anywhere. But it’s mostly valuable compared to the other laptops in coach. So people who fly a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in coach and also if you’re carrying it around. So if you’re the kind of person who walks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco around your office all day, going in and out of meetings, in and out of conference rooms, and you’re constantly carrying a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptop with you during that time to take notes on or check email or whatever people do in meetings, I really have no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco idea. That is what this is for. This is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for sitting on a desk being plugged in all day. I mean, you can even tell. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think one of the reasons why the lack of MagSafe is less of a problem, or that Apple maybe thought it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was worth or it was okay to get rid of it, is because this really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously isn’t made to be used at a desk all day. It doesn’t have the connectivity or the horsepower or the screen space,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really, to do that very well. I think this is made to be used

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out and about while traveling, walking around, the case may be. And so this,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me, it’s like… The reason why it charges through a USB

⏹️ ▶️ Marco port and not something that can be torn off is because iPads and iPhones charge that way. And this is meant to be used

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same way. This is meant to be like, you charge it up at night,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you plug it in when you’re done at the end of the day. And when you’re using it, you’re moving around somewhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re picking it up off a table, you’re in an airplane, whatever. It’s not plugged in, just like an iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Whether that’s going to pan out to be useful that way, whether the battery life is going to be that good…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When a CPU is very underpowered for the task you’re asking it to do, it’s going to be hitting 100%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot, and it’s going to stay at 100% for longer as it’s going through those tasks. And so the battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life might end up being really bad if you’re hitting it very hard at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’ll see if that’s the case with this. Modern chips are pretty good about that that kind of stuff, so it might be less of an issue. But for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the most part, I think that’s probably what Apple was at least thinking, and it’s probably what most users will bear out. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re using this just like for notes and web and email and stuff, you’re not gonna really be hitting anything that hard, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you don’t install Flash. You know, I think it’s meant to be used like an iPad, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is away from its cable all day, plugged in at night. And you know, time will tell whether that ends

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up being realistic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, you know, I think you’re probably right. And more real-time follow-up, I’m getting from Robert

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Thomas on Twitter. I’ve been a university student for six years. I think the last time I used a thumb drive was four years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So guess what? I’m old. And who was it in the chat? Somebody in the chat, I’ve lost your name.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I apologize. Dave Wood pointed out that there is a straight USB, traditional USB adapter

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for only $20. So I keep-

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Then you can’t power it though. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco But as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you just said, you know, it does theoretically have all day power. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree here. And you know, it’s certainly possible, but I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. It’s just.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, flash drives, thumb drives are going to come with type C connectors soon enough because type C will rapidly

⏹️ ▶️ John replace the old USB, I think, on basically everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So yeah, in the same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way HDMI is replacing VGA.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would say mini display board. I mean, like on all the Macs, you know what I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway. But you can’t tap on this. Yeah. So I want to talk about the limitations of this device. And by talking

⏹️ ▶️ John about the limitations, I think we’ll get to the heart of who this machine

⏹️ ▶️ John is for. uh and i want to i’m going to try to talk about the limitations

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s usually you know you shouldn’t uh speak in a defensive way about things i’m trying i’m going to try to

⏹️ ▶️ John preempt the tweets that i know are already being typed about this thing based on past

⏹️ ▶️ John comments because i keep getting people trying to explain to me why this thing has one port or whatever i already said

⏹️ ▶️ John that in the keynote apple did not feel the need to talk about why this thing only has one port at all no justification

⏹️ ▶️ John for it. The key sort of preemptive

⏹️ ▶️ John defensive point I want to get to is that I’m okay with this thing only having

⏹️ ▶️ John USB type-c. I expect the things to only have USB type-c, certainly like the Airs

⏹️ ▶️ John or anything Air-sized, right? I’m okay with everything about the machine. Getting rid of MagSafe,

⏹️ ▶️ John getting rid of all the other ports, not having dedicated video out, like, because this is This is the super thin, skinny

⏹️ ▶️ John machine. The promise of USB-C is you don’t have to have 50 different ports. Like, it is better

⏹️ ▶️ John to just have one type of port than to have a million different ports. I’m okay with everything about

⏹️ ▶️ John this, except I want, the only point was I wanted an explanation of what do I

⏹️ ▶️ John get with one that I don’t get with two. A lot of people are saying there’s not room for two in here. Well, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not as if the case is imposed on them by another manufacturer. They choose the size of the case. They can

⏹️ ▶️ John make any dimension of this 1 or 2 or 3mm wider to make room for another one. Even within

⏹️ ▶️ John the existing case, it’s possible that they could have wedged another one in the other side and moved the headphone port or whatever. But

⏹️ ▶️ John even if they couldn’t, they make the case. They can decide, you know, whether there should be two. It also

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t mean that there isn’t a reason. There isn’t some advantage you get with one. People have suggested, still

⏹️ ▶️ John suggested, power things that maybe powering two ports would cause

⏹️ ▶️ John a problem. Maybe the circuitry to handle two ports, like you’d want to be able to charge from both right? Maybe the

⏹️ ▶️ John circuitry to be able to handle that makes the things too big. If you look at the inside, you look at how much they shrunk down the motherboard, there’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of room in there, right? Again, Apple chooses the size of these things, so it’s not, you know, if Apple decided they

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to have two USB type C ports, they could have. The fact that this serves as power as well,

⏹️ ▶️ John which means that you can’t use this thing to sort of charge your devices, which many people who have laptops do, like they sit down

⏹️ ▶️ John at their desk, they plug the thing in, they charge devices, now you need to have a dongle for it or whatever. So

⏹️ ▶️ John my only issue with the ports on this is that no one has, Apple has not given an official explanation

⏹️ ▶️ John for why there is only one and not two, right? And I don’t see any advantage to having only one

⏹️ ▶️ John port and not two. I see tons of advantages for not having any other ports. Like I understand that direction.

⏹️ ▶️ John I understand that eventually this thing will probably have no ports except for some kind of magnetic snap-on inductive charging

⏹️ ▶️ John thing when we get to that point, right? I understand this is forward-looking, I understand all this stuff about it that people are gonna tell me

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t understand, it’s just like the original MacBook. Yes, yes, totally agree. 100%. The question is,

⏹️ ▶️ John why couldn’t they fit another one of these because they’re so small, they’re so tiny, you could surely find someplace

⏹️ ▶️ John for another one, unless there’s some reason that you’re not have one. So right now I’m going with

⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s a philosophical statement and that merely having one port will look like a backwards thing in

⏹️ ▶️ John the future. If we just think of it as like a power type thing. In fact, the thing that’s gonna look the oldest and this is a stupid

⏹️ ▶️ John headphone port, which we don’t seem to be able to get rid of, because that is the most like, old school archaic, know

⏹️ ▶️ John around like soon it will be the biggest port it’s already the widest port I think it’s not I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John like the highest port you know what I mean like I think it’s higher than USB type-c but it’s not as wide or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John anyway that that my complaint about it how only having one of these still stands mostly because

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t see what you would have lost by putting another single USB type C port

⏹️ ▶️ John on somewhere else on this machine on the other side or something so that’s one limitation we can put that one aside

⏹️ ▶️ John second limitation key travel Marco already talked about it. They showed it in the video. They tried to spin it as a positive.

⏹️ ▶️ John Look at this cool switch mechanism. The keys don’t bounce. I like that video. I thought that was good marketing like the slow

⏹️ ▶️ John mo with the fingers and the wobbling and everything like even if it doesn’t matter, like it’s just the old one looks old and

⏹️ ▶️ John busted and this one looks new and shiny, but that’s not a lot of travel. Apple did not feel

⏹️ ▶️ John the need to emphasize the fact that there is less travel here and it might take getting some use. And I also feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s something that in the past the past Apple might have felt some need to say there’s less travel

⏹️ ▶️ John and it might feel weird at first but you get used to it and actually it’s you’ll type faster on this and I’ve heard people

⏹️ ▶️ John say who have typed on this on the you know at the event that it does feel weird but they’re surprised

⏹️ ▶️ John at how fast they go that I think Jason Snell or maybe it was Jason or someone else said that it was kind of like a hybrid between a physical

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard and typing on the iPad keyboard where nothing actually moves I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know if this is a good compromise a good limitation or like is this is it actually a positive or a negative?

⏹️ ▶️ John But at the very least, it’s something where people are probably going to want to go to an Apple store and type on one and see how you feel

⏹️ ▶️ John about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, definitely. I would I would not like preorder one of these things without typing on it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I agree. The spacing looks like Marco said, the rumor that the spacing is tighter. I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John tell. But I bet if you’re a super good touch typist, you’ll go into the Apple store and you’ll be able to kind of feel

⏹️ ▶️ John if like the keys feel a little bit off for you or whatever. But But I have some confidence that this would this will be

⏹️ ▶️ John okay, but I’m I don’t know, I’m definitely going to go into the Apple Store and try it.

⏹️ ▶️ John We talked about the the arrow keys on the past, you know, based on the rumors, the market rumors, which are exactly right,

⏹️ ▶️ John the left and the right arrow keys are full size keys and only the up and down or half sized. And I once again

⏹️ ▶️ John complained about why can’t I get full size up, down and left or right arrow keys? The answer

⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of battery related, which is another limitation I’ll get to in a second. But also, as I said, you know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John Johnny Ive does not want an asymmetrical cut out for the keyboard like he’s big on symmetry.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like the full size left and right arrow keys. That’s better than nothing. But I was excited by the fact if you

⏹️ ▶️ John look at this keyboard, do you want to you have like a screenshot of this keyboard up right now, go to Apple site and take a look at it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was excited by the fact maybe it may be excited in an evil way that

⏹️ ▶️ John somehow somebody forced Johnny Ive to put something asymmetrical on this keyboard. Do

⏹️ ▶️ John you see what it is?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh I see what you mean.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spacebar is not centered.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes! The spacebar is not centered on the trackpad. Now of course keyboards have tons of things that are asymmetrical for historical

⏹️ ▶️ John reasons and you know like the tab key is not the same width as the slot. The keyboards are not entirely symmetrical but

⏹️ ▶️ John putting the off-center spacebar right next to the exactly centered trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ John really emphasizes the fact that one of these things is asymmetrical. Now the outline is still a perfect rectangle and again

⏹️ ▶️ John for battery reasons more than anything else on this particular machine you can’t do that but I still long for on the 15 inch

⏹️ ▶️ John full-size arrow keys that are bumped I know it would be uglier I understand that it would break up

⏹️ ▶️ John the symmetry of the design but like the fact that like you know form over function that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John more important for it to be aesthetically pleasing than it is for me to have full-size up and down arrow keys means that I will never want to do programming

⏹️ ▶️ John on on a laptop keyboard not that I really want to anyway but no I did a half-size arrow

⏹️ ▶️ John keys drive me nuts. I mean, maybe people don’t use the arrow keys as much as programmers do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never I mean, you know, I will nitpick anything. I’ve never had a problem with that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t stand it. I can’t I miss hit them. I hit the it’s just I don’t like it at all. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if you use the I keys who needs the arrow keys if you use the Max key bindings who use the arrow keys, but I use

⏹️ ▶️ John the arrows with in combination with modifiers to move around documents

⏹️ ▶️ John and so I don’t like the half size our case not a deal breaker. It’s not into anything new with this thing. And in fact, this machine

⏹️ ▶️ John has more excuse than any other machine to not move those things down because of the incredible

⏹️ ▶️ John shallowness of the of the enclosure. If you move them down, you would be cutting into batteries,

⏹️ ▶️ John precious battery space. And that brings me to the final run of the final we’ll talk about the track that I guess to but

⏹️ ▶️ John the final limitation I really want to like emphasize here, the battery where they feel shows up there to

⏹️ ▶️ John show us about the scallop to the terrorist battery thing. We’re like, look, if we tried to fit a regular battery

⏹️ ▶️ John would stop here, but we We’ve made it layered batteries and we can fill up more of the space. And as I tweeted at the time

⏹️ ▶️ John I saw that, you know what else would give you more room for battery fill? Stop

⏹️ ▶️ John tapering the damn thing. If you just make it perfectly, it’s barely tapered

⏹️ ▶️ John as it is. You’re just torturing yourself. The original one, the wedge shape, the wedge shape was part of the

⏹️ ▶️ John aesthetic, right? The original one is like, it’s, you know, oh, it’s a wedge or whatever. It is barely

⏹️ ▶️ John a wedge. All you’re doing is making your own life worse. If you made this thing the same thickness from front to back,

⏹️ ▶️ John think of how much more battery. It’s not like an insignificant amount of battery. The batteries in this are so slim

⏹️ ▶️ John and so skinny and so tiny that not tapering it could

⏹️ ▶️ John give you like 30, 40% more battery. And here’s the thing about this chipset, which everybody’s

⏹️ ▶️ John using. There was like, you know, this PC laptops out with this, what is it? The Core M, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it is. Yeah. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see that Dell, the 13 inch like borderless Dell? That one actually looks really nice. Like I wish they would have done that here.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ John some of them have some of them have like 18 hours of battery life. And again, you know, Apple taking credit, we’ve done this

⏹️ ▶️ John without a fan of like, well, Intel kind of did that for you. Like you cannot, you know, if you did not have this chip,

⏹️ ▶️ John you cannot make it fanless. Yes, it is a feat to make it fanless. But there are lots of PC makers using the same chipset getting insane

⏹️ ▶️ John battery lives, like literally 18 hour battery lives, right. And people were hoping, let’s see what Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John can get out of this. Apple instead went for thinness. They’re like the MacBook Air is

⏹️ ▶️ John like, they get like, you know, 13 to 15 hours of battery life out of them easy. This one gets

⏹️ ▶️ John less. It gets nine hours of battery life with a super low powered chipset. Why? Because it’s so damn

⏹️ ▶️ John thin, they don’t have enough room to put any battery in. They’re going backwards. They’re going to the sort of the

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad philosophy of like, what is an acceptable level of battery? We think nine hours is acceptable, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Therefore, make it as thin as you can and keep nine hours, right? And they did, which is fine. It’s a particular

⏹️ ▶️ John trade off. But for the taper, that’s what kills me. Like The taper is no longer,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, a strong aesthetic for this. I don’t see what advantage the taper gives for carrying it, because

⏹️ ▶️ John I find it less comfortable to hold by that skinny edge. You always have to turn it with the fat edge down. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also, by the way, it makes it harder to open the lid. You need two hands. I mean, I haven’t tried one of these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet, but usually with the skinny little ears, you need two hands to open the lid, because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so fiddly and thin on the end, and so light. It pulls both sides up. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, that may be true, even if you made it the same thickness all the way through. but you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, like in the first computer to use this super duper low

⏹️ ▶️ John power five watt chip set to have it not be at least comparable to the old

⏹️ ▶️ John Airs is disappointing. It is a reasonable trade off and I agree with making things thinner. I agree

⏹️ ▶️ John with everything they’re doing. It’s just that once it gets down to this thickness, I feel like the wedge shape is no longer

⏹️ ▶️ John giving you the aesthetic boost needed to justify the battery that it is shaving away from

⏹️ ▶️ John you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and the chat room is pointing out that, you know, obviously batteries add weight. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they didn’t taper it and filled the extra space with batteries, it would make a heavier laptop. But I’m thinking at this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size. I mean, 2.1 pounds, 2.2.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I mean, most of the weight you’re talking about,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the enclosure and stuff, and the screen. Like, I don’t think, I don’t think the difference in battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there would be a significant weight increase. It could be

⏹️ ▶️ John less, not less weight, but it could be comparable weight, because if you look at this machine, like, I just kept seeing this

⏹️ ▶️ John all on the story, it’s like, wow, look how much battery it is, because, you know, they made the motherboard super small, So it’s like all trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ John and battery, right? This machine, I’m going to guess this machine,

⏹️ ▶️ John volume wise has more aluminum than battery. You know what I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Because

⏹️ ▶️ John they can’t make the walls of the they can’t make the aluminum too thin, or you’re gonna have bend gate with

⏹️ ▶️ John the new MacBook, right? Especially as it tapers, if you look at like the cross section, they showed that is in any

⏹️ ▶️ John way accurate. There, I think there is more volume of aluminum in this device, even just in the bottom

⏹️ ▶️ John part more volume of aluminum than volume of battery, maybe I don’t know that that may be pushing it but

⏹️ ▶️ John you the sidewalls can’t be that thin they have to be certain thickness for structural integrity there is very little room

⏹️ ▶️ John left in these things for battery right and that taper could be cutting your battery

⏹️ ▶️ John room in half by the time you get to that tapered edge of the thing so

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s okay for there to be a machine with these compromises I would just also like to see

⏹️ ▶️ John a you know I mean that’s why I talk about the 13 inch the 13 inches basically the non tapered Air but like twice

⏹️ ▶️ John or three times as thick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s why I think it’s important because What we’re saying basically like Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco already makes a computer That’s not tapered, but still really small and has a full travel depth keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But it’s not like I feel like if you made a non tapered version of the

⏹️ ▶️ John new MacBook It would still feel like a different class of machine from the 13 because it would have the weak CPU it would have

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s That’s more limitations, right? So what is the name of that chipset? I keep getting it wrong. Is

⏹️ ▶️ John it the core M? I believe so. Whatever it is, the five watt integrated, really small, low

⏹️ ▶️ John power chipset that turbos up to 2.9 gigahertz, but starts out at 1.1. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s five watts. That’s what you’re getting. That’s how you can have a fanless thing, right? That is a limitation of this machine.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you get dividends for that limitation. Fanlessness. I am all bored for that. Like I love it. I love the fact

⏹️ ▶️ John that I even love the fact that they tried to hide the antenna internally. The performance of that tenon is great. No big black, you know, plastic

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. The fact that it’s all metal, the fact that it’s all sealed up, I almost wish they could make it waterproof at this point, right? I

⏹️ ▶️ John love all that about this machine. And I feel like if you made this exact machine, but with no taper, it

⏹️ ▶️ John would still feel like an entirely different class of machine than the 13 inch, even though the 13 inch is only like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, six millimeter sticker or something like that. Because the 13 inch, like you said, full key travel, real

⏹️ ▶️ John chip set, you know what I mean? Fans, right? Right, ports, like, it would

⏹️ ▶️ John still feel like a different class of machine. And so, you know, so let’s get to

⏹️ ▶️ John who this machine is for. I’m, you know, I’m always trying to get my parents

⏹️ ▶️ John to buy better computers because I hate supporting them on their ancient, like, white iBooks or whatever the hell they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John using. I don’t even… anyway, I get tired thinking about it. I think this would be a great machine for my parents.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because they don’t do anything that’s so demanding that this machine couldn’t do well

⏹️ ▶️ John for them. And it is they don’t need like 18 hour battery life nine hours is plenty

⏹️ ▶️ John for them. It has fewer things that can go wrong. It has fewer moving parts. It has no fan

⏹️ ▶️ John so I don’t have to worry about them suffocating it with like puffy pillows when they have it on their their lap on the couch

⏹️ ▶️ John or something and it’s so small that they could move around like it’s a manila envelope. I think this would be a good machine

⏹️ ▶️ John for them if they can tolerate the keyboard and if they’re not freaked out by the haptic force touch tap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. And by the way, all the people who were at the event who tried

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the keyboard and force like saying the keyboard everybody was a little polarized on. But the the trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone seemed to love. I mean, everyone I didn’t hear a single bad thing about the trackpad.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m fully willing to believe that it’s awesome. I’m in fact, I’m hoping that again, there’s another reason I’m going to recognize my parents. My mom

⏹️ ▶️ John likes tap to click. You know, I can’t stand tap to click to do that. But she uses tap to click, right. And so this is going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John awesome, because it’s basically like adjustable tap to click, right where it’s she’s not going

⏹️ ▶️ John to accidentally hit it. And you can adjust how much force I think it requires to like to do the thing. I think this

⏹️ ▶️ John trackpad is going to be great. And you know, that’s why I’m excited to see it on the 13 inch. I think the the non moving trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ John could be a real win because honestly, I don’t I’ve never liked I don’t like trackpads period. I didn’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John the ones with the button on it when they got rid of the button. I didn’t really like the whole idea that the whole thing slanted, including the part

⏹️ ▶️ John that I was tracing my finger over. So like you said, all the reviews of this have been great. And I’m willing totally

⏹️ ▶️ John willing to believe that they’ve nailed it on this trackpad. And that, you know, this will in the same way that like

⏹️ ▶️ John trackpads replace trackballs and they were were kind of weird in the beginning, they settled down. Once Apple goes to

⏹️ ▶️ John this kind of trackpad everywhere, once they inevitably add force touch to all the iOS devices, it’ll be like, how did we ever

⏹️ ▶️ John live without this?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ben Thompson’s in the chat saying that he has tried the keyboard, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it does take some getting used to. But you absolutely will. And he also said that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the trackpad is, and now I’m quoting, mind-blowing. So just like you said,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, everyone seems to love it. The other question I had, which I only want a very quick,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to put in a very quick thought about is if the headphone jack is really that big and really causing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that much extra thickness. I mean, we have Bluetooth headphones. That’s a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But yet we don’t seem to have embraced it yet. Do you guys see a future when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A, they take away the headphone jack and say, if you really want to listen to your computer, get Bluetooth headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and B, that Marco is finally thus compelled to embrace Bluetooth headphones?

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so I’d asked you right before the sponsor break whether or not you think that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the headphone port will eventually go away Go away on these Mac books or perhaps even iOS devices

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And if they do does that mean you’ll finally be compelled to embrace Bluetooth headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I should start this by saying I have embraced Bluetooth headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Travel slash mobile purposes, but not for your desk,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco correct charged. And I think many people would find a similar trade-off because they have batteries

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they need to be charged. And so if you’re sitting at a desk all day long and you’re not moving around, you’re plugging into a computer on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco desk, just go wired. It’s easier. And they’re lighter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re more comfortable because they are lighter. There’s no big batteries or anything. So then you don’t have to charge them because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bluetooth headphones battery lives and use range from a few hours to a lot of hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you’re not talking months. You know, you’re talking… If you actually use Bluetooth headphones full-time, listening

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to music most of the day, every day… As I do. How often do you need to recharge them?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Every other day,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two days, maybe. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you’re talking… You’re talking a substantial annoyance that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you can get similar benefits from wired, might as well, right? So, Bluetooth headphones, though,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where I love them is, like, when I’m walking. So, if I’m commuting or if I’m walking the dog… Well, commuting, like, on a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco train, which I hardly ever do, but if I’m doing that, I’ll bring them. If I’m walking the dog, I bring them on dog walks. They’re great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are moving in a direction where they’re going to become more common.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And most of that’s because of the Apple Watch, in my opinion. MacBooks possibly losing headphone ports in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco future. That’s a distant secondary concern, I think. I think the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issue that we have and what will hold Apple back here is that Bluetooth headphones,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nature are complicated devices. They have some kind of pairing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interface. They have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John RF. They have batteries.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. And they have batteries. And so, if you look at the kind of headphones Apple makes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the kind of headphones most people use with their Apple devices, they’re those little tiny white earbuds.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can’t make Bluetooth headphones that small. They do have Bluetooth earbuds. They do exist. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco none of them are as small and sleek as the Apple earbuds because they can’t be because they need somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to put a battery. And if the battery is that incredibly tiny, it will last like an hour.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And said that I don’t think Apple would would deal with that very well. You also need to, you know, have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of port on them to charge them. I mean, maybe inductive blah, blah, blah, someday, maybe,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not.

⏹️ ▶️ John Here’s how they’ll do it when they actually do it, because I think it will come eventually. There’ll be tiny little earbuds. They’ll have tiny little batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John in them. be no ports on them at all. They’ll last about an hour or something close

⏹️ ▶️ John to that, and you’ll stick them magnetically to some little recesses inside your tiny little MacBook when

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re not using them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I even if that was possible, I would question all that. I would say they would not do that because that sounds really clunky.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John And remember

⏹️ ▶️ John that remember when they stuck the remote to the side of the iMac with magnets? Remember

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, yeah, that’s true. That was a long time ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m saying

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know, that’s that would be the Apple way to do it is that There’s no, you don’t plug these little 30 things in.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t lose them because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey they’re always,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re always stuck to your laptop, right? It would be, because there is something very inelegant about even just the

⏹️ ▶️ John white earbuds and the short cord and plugging it in, it sticks out the side of your thing and you accidentally bend it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, like Bluetooth earbuds are more elegant, but like Marco said, you know, the battery

⏹️ ▶️ John problem, batteries don’t get better that fast. And so you can’t fit a big battery in there. You can only fit a

⏹️ ▶️ John small one. And then you’re stuffed with the recharging problem and you don’t want to plug anything into recharge them that’s clunky.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you could do inductive charge. Those tiny batteries would inductively charge really fast off of your MacBook. You just got to find

⏹️ ▶️ John some place to stick them on or in there, right? But that’s not in the near future. I’m just thinking like future world stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is the problem. Like, I think if I think Apple has run through the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco calculus, if they could reasonably get rid of the headphone port, they would have already and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe in the distant future, they will. But I don’t think that’s that time is like imminent. everyone thought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every single iPhone release that comes out everyone predicts this is the one we’re going to get rid of the headphone port

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they haven’t yet and you have to ask yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John why. Yeah these are like the lightning port headphones I mean they could be the use the USB port for headphones

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s how they’ll get that before they go wireless they’ll probably end up whatever single port is left

⏹️ ▶️ John on the thing that will do everything including headphones and hopefully they’ll you know their earbuds will have those little connectors

⏹️ ▶️ John or what I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And so you have… There are so many issues with trying to get this now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like trying to get Apple to… Because that’s what they would have to do. If they get rid of headphone ports, they would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to basically replace their earbuds with something else. And whether you have to… If you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to buy it separately, that sucks. Then all of a sudden, you got to spend like, you know, $40 more or $50 more. Whatever they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would charge for it. Probably more than $40. But you know, if you have to spend $80 more on Bluetooth headphones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that… that, you know, just to use your iPhone with a headset, you know, it’s not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So this is the problem, is the Bluetooth headphone situation,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just by nature of needing batteries and Bluetooth headphones, they have a certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco minimum size and a certain minimum level of clunkiness. And, you know, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco need like a button and a switch somewhere to turn them on and pair them and everything. a minimum

⏹️ ▶️ Marco level of clunkiness up to them that I don’t see Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanting to address so badly to get rid of the headphone port. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not to say they won’t eventually try this. I just don’t see this in the near future. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they do release Bluetooth headphones, I think that would come before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a headphone port is removed from a prominent device. To them like first have the hardware tested out a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See if anybody buys them. See if anybody likes them, because if they release an iPhone that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t plug into any existing headsets people are going to freak out and much more so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than having to buy new lightning cables like people are going to freak out and not to say that it doesn’t you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that doesn’t keep Apple from doing things sometimes, but there’s different degrees and different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco products and getting rid of a headphone jack on on their most important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco product that that would not be taken lightly. So again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not saying this will never happen, but I don’t see it happening soon. Now going back to the MacBook,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know. I’m sure Apple has done some kind of research to know like how important this is. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they there’s nothing stopping them from putting a USB type C port on the other side and just selling you know just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have a $20 adapter to plug in USB devices, sell a $20 adapter that is a USB

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sound interface.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that’s more of, I would not recommend that. Why not? Because I think the use case

⏹️ ▶️ John for this, everyone has the little earbuds from their iPhone or their iPod, and a lot of times you’re working on

⏹️ ▶️ John a laptop in an environment where you wanna watch some silly YouTube video that someone sent you, but you don’t want the

⏹️ ▶️ John sound coming out of the speakers. So you’re plugging your little white earbuds, or even if you’re just listening to music while you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John typing away or doing your homework or whatever, like you got to be able to just quickly plug in earbuds with

⏹️ ▶️ John no adapter or have a wireless solution of those magical things that just, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John click onto the side of your thing or something. I feel like that use case is more important than

⏹️ ▶️ John a second port. I would never give up the headphone port for a second USB-C on this thing. That would be a bad

⏹️ ▶️ John trade. Because I see people do it all the time. All the time I see people with any kind of laptop, not just skinny little light ones, but

⏹️ ▶️ John any kind of laptop sitting in front of it, plugging in their headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. I mean, it’s common, but you also see people plugging in a lot of USB things. So you know, it’s common enough. I agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But, you know, I think one of two things is the case here. Either they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did enough research and they know that, like, way too many people plug in their headsets and, you know, make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Skype calls, listen to music, because, you know, because it’s a microphone, too, if you use the

⏹️ ▶️ John headset. But there’s no replacement. Like, with the whole USB thing, people plugging in USB stuff, there’s always a replacement,

⏹️ ▶️ John but there’s no replacement. There’s no… You have to have some way to make your computer stop making noise, but let you

⏹️ ▶️ John hear the noises your computer makes. Oh, I see what you mean. Whereas everything else, it’s like, well, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a thumb drive, but I can use Dropbox. Well, I can’t plug it in and power something, but I can buy this dongle adapter. You

⏹️ ▶️ John need something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. You want automatic disconnection of the built-in speakers. Yeah. But if Apple made their own official

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB Type C sound thing for $25, $30 or whatever, well, knowing them, $40,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they made that, there’s nothing stopping them from coding that into the OS where it automatically… Because right now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two different sound devices and auto switches logically in software. You know, it’s it already does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that so they could do that if they wanted to. I think the more likely explanation for the headphone jack being there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that for other reasons, they only wanted to have one USB C port

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they figure well symmetry. We have the space over here for a port. What what single port

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this size restriction can we put here that would make some kind of logical sense that would benefit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some people and they added that one.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would think the the iOS devices would ditch the head of them for before the MacBooks too. And whatever the iOS devices

⏹️ ▶️ John do to deal with that, that’s just what the Macs would do eventually anyway. Yeah. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John apparently I did not do enough pre explaining and preempting of stuff because

⏹️ ▶️ John Ben Thompson in the chat room is getting all feisty. He’s tweeting while he’s listening to the show. Well, an earlier tweet, geeks are just unqualified

⏹️ ▶️ John to explain the new MacBook. They’re anti qualified. They’re saying that Syracuse is way off

⏹️ ▶️ John base. So I will try one more time to explain what I feel about

⏹️ ▶️ John this particular computer.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco is Ben Thompson wrong?

⏹️ ▶️ John He’s not wrong in sentiment. He’s wrong about what he thinks my position is. So I will try to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco emphasize again,

⏹️ ▶️ John that the thing that is messed up about this machine with one port

⏹️ ▶️ John like it, the reason it’s going to look weird and look back on as like an oddity

⏹️ ▶️ John and like a mistake is not because it has one port instead of two. It’s going to be looked bad

⏹️ ▶️ John on as an oddity and sort of a mistake because it has one port instead of zero. Like I totally agree

⏹️ ▶️ John that that basically the main thing that’s wrong with this is like I, I pads don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John ports in them. They never had ports and people complained in the beginning, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco by the

⏹️ ▶️ John lack of you know what I mean that the 30 pin connector it doesn’t count. Like that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well they they do have one port that can charge it and you can plug in devices. I

⏹️ ▶️ John know, but you know, like no USB port for like an SD card slot or expansion, all the things that people would want.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not true. The camera connection kit. I know, but they don’t have a port. They just have one plug that you plug

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing into. Like there’s no there’s no plugging in a USB keyboard. There’s no plugging in. There’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John SD card slot.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco There is actually. Actually, yeah, you can.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco With the camera connection kit, you can plug in lots of things. I

⏹️ ▶️ John know, but that’s it. That’s an extra

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco thing. You know what I’m saying?

⏹️ ▶️ John So is the hub for this. No, it’s a proprietary port. It is not something that is a standard type

⏹️ ▶️ John of port. You know know what I mean? What is going to look weird about this in the future is that it has one I still don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John follow this argument. Is that it has one USB port and not two. What I’m trying to say is I’m entirely on board

⏹️ ▶️ John with the idea that the ports go away on this thing. That we go down to one kind of port and then eventually there’s no kinds of port

⏹️ ▶️ John except for some proprietary thing that Apple makes up for charging or whatever. Like that plugging things

⏹️ ▶️ John into your laptop would not be a thing in the same way that plugging things into your iPad isn’t a thing. You say oh what about

⏹️ ▶️ John you know the camera thing and what about all the stuff you can plug in. When you see people using an iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ John how many of them do you see that have anything plugged into that port? Almost 0% of them, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John You almost never I’ve never seen anyone with a camera connection kit in the wild. I’ve never seen anyone with anything plugged

⏹️ ▶️ John into that as a peripheral or whatever. Even when I see people using keyboards and keyboard cases, their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Bluetooth 30 inches from my head is a picture of the three of us at a table

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the table is an iPad with a camera connection kit plugged into it. Yeah, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you’re using to stream a podcast, this is not a common

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco use case.

⏹️ ▶️ John The point is you saw it. Take iPhones as another example. Other than Mophie, you know, things plugged

⏹️ ▶️ John in battery cases, do you ever see anyone with something plugged into their iPhone that’s reading an SD card from it, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John using a USB thumb drive on it, that’s doing anything like that with it? You just don’t see it. The devices

⏹️ ▶️ John are telling you, I am not expandable. There is one proprietary port used for charging and all data

⏹️ ▶️ John transfer, but most of the time you’re gonna be using me without something plugged into it. You see what I’m getting at?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think this laptop is exactly the same way. That’s what you’re gonna see. Most people who buy this laptop, I bet,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are not gonna buy that stupid little adapter. But it

⏹️ ▶️ John has a USB port on it. It does not have a lightning connector on it. It does not have MagSafe on it. It does not

⏹️ ▶️ John have a proprietary Apple thing that is not a generic port.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it’s a USB port that nobody has any devices for yet. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John ignoring this analogy, which is trying to show that you’re trying to pick up this analogy was not the main point. My point is that

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t, like I understand that ports are going away. I am all for that. I’m not saying let’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hold back the tide, bring back the floppy drive. Like, I don’t know how much I can emphasize this. Like, yes, get

⏹️ ▶️ John rid of all the freaking parts eventually.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right? On an infinite time scale, they’re all

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco gonna- All

⏹️ ▶️ John I wanted to know was, what am I getting for having one USB type C instead of

⏹️ ▶️ John two? And nobody’s been able to tell me anything other than saying that one is less than two and eventually we’re gonna get a zero. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like zero is better than one. You know what I mean? Like, not practically speaking for this

⏹️ ▶️ John particular machine, but that is a statement. That is where we’re going. There is a, it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John step change of like, well, you have zero or you have one. If you have one, everybody’s gonna try to cram everything

⏹️ ▶️ John through the one with a series of crazy adapters, right? Because you’re like, well, you’ve got the one and it can do video

⏹️ ▶️ John out and it can do all these things. Like it is a stand in for all the other ports. Because you have one,

⏹️ ▶️ John everything is gonna funnel into that one spot. Whereas if you had zero or you had lightning connector or something like that,

⏹️ ▶️ John it would be like, well, this is obviously not a machine that I plug things into. Like, yeah, you can plug your

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad into your Mac use it as a separate monitor and you can you know do all these sorts of things with them but no one is taking an

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad and like well I’m gonna get that and I’m gonna plug something it’s gonna charge it and it’s gonna give my iPad a second display

⏹️ ▶️ John and that’s gonna give me SD card storage for my iPad nobody does that but they will do that with this because

⏹️ ▶️ John it has the one port so what I’m saying is like if you’re gonna do one port if you

⏹️ ▶️ John put on two then what happens well it’s a trade-off well you have this well you have that I’m perfectly willing to believe it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John trade-off all I’m saying is that no one has told me what I’m trading if you just tell me that I’m trading space on the case that one

⏹️ ▶️ John I I don’t buy because I feel like you can make the case big enough to fit the second port on there. All right, now putting aside

⏹️ ▶️ John the second port thing, I am also totally on board with the idea that no one cares about the second

⏹️ ▶️ John port except for nerdy people. Totally, and thinking about use cases, but as I mentioned to my mom, just, you know, like as a

⏹️ ▶️ John actual example, but I think for basically everybody who isn’t into computers

⏹️ ▶️ John who wants to have a laptop computer in their house, this is the one to get because it’s so small. You’ll just put it with like

⏹️ ▶️ John the stack of magazines next to your couch. Like everyone should have, like I said, with the iPads, I feel like this

⏹️ ▶️ John is the type of thing that you just be laying around your house if you are a rich person in every room at your house, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like picking up a magazine. Oh, I’ll just pick up this iPad, like the iPad Air 2. Like you just wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John have a device that you can do web browsing on. You can look stuff up while you’re watching TV. You can, you know, read your email

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. That’s what these things are perfect for. These are computers for the masses.

⏹️ ▶️ John I totally agree with that. Like this is more for the masses than the 13 inch Pro is. This is more

⏹️ ▶️ John for the masses than any of the Airs are, right? This is the laptop for the masses. Getting rid of everything,

⏹️ ▶️ John getting rid of the fan, getting rid of ports they don’t understand, making it super small and light. Nine hours is fine

⏹️ ▶️ John for the masses. The reason this is called the MacBook and not the MacBook Air 2, the MacBook Vapor,

⏹️ ▶️ John the MacBook Prelude, any of these other things, is because this is the Mac for the

⏹️ ▶️ John masses. People don’t need all that other stuff that we’re talking about. This is the

⏹️ ▶️ John one that they should sell the most of. It’s priced fairly low, like 12, 1300 bucks. It’s not like a $2,000 type of thing. I totally agree with

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I can agree with all of that and also complain

⏹️ ▶️ John about if they had made it not tapered, would it stop being the MacBook for the masses? No, it would

⏹️ ▶️ John not. If they had put two USB type C things, would it stop being the MacBook for the masses? No, I feel like the masses would

⏹️ ▶️ John also not notice that those two things are there and it would make it more capable with a

⏹️ ▶️ John trade-off that I think the masses wouldn’t care about, but the nerdy people like

⏹️ ▶️ John us would really appreciate because we’re not at the point of going to zero things. We are you know

⏹️ ▶️ John like and I think that the the taper is something that actually people would appreciate because I think it would make It easier to hold

⏹️ ▶️ John by that sharp edge because the sharp edge would be less sharp So I don’t know like if

⏹️ ▶️ John I continue to get tweets for people selling me you don’t get it because you’re a geek This is gonna be really beautiful for other people. I don’t know how many other

⏹️ ▶️ John ways I can express it I totally agree with you. I’m just saying that they could change

⏹️ ▶️ John these few things and unless someone explains to me the trade-off I’m totally willing to believe it is like oh You couldn’t do this because

⏹️ ▶️ John the chipset doesn’t support it because there’s no way to do the circuitry You know the circuitry for controlling two different

⏹️ ▶️ John power ports would have made the motherboard too big so on and so forth But I haven’t gotten any explanation

⏹️ ▶️ John And as far as I’m concerned you can make the same machine a few millimeters different in a few dimensions Get rid of the taper

⏹️ ▶️ John put two USB type-c ports on it Keep the price pretty much the same have better

⏹️ ▶️ John have better battery life and the masses would still love it And we would love it even more and as things stands

⏹️ ▶️ John I still think it’s kind of a great machine and I would probably be willing to replace a 13 inch air I have with this one because the screens

⏹️ ▶️ John on the air are terrible and this one’s just as fast and it has no fan.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You see, I, I can’t agree with you there because if the,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if the priority is to make as freaking tiny a laptop as you can,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I understand that you don’t like that priority, but the fact of the matter is,

⏹️ ▶️ John I do like it. I wrote a whole article about how I like it. Remember that article? That was me. I agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you’re saying, well, why don’t they add a couple of millimeters here or there, blah, blah, blah. But they don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not thickness, length and width to make room for the port. You know

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey OK, so they want this case. This case is what they wanted.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not good design, though. Don’t you agree? You don’t design a car by designing the body first and figuring out how you can fit the insides in

⏹️ ▶️ John there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that’s a really shaky analogy. But I think the thing is, they wanted a case to look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like this, because that makes a lot more sense in computers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than it does in a car. I think they said, well, we want this case to look like this. And then I think they said, well, we only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have room for one thing on the left-hand side. We don’t have any room on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right-hand side because we wanna do a headphone jack for all the reasons we just discussed. We only have one thing on the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey left-hand side. We could either make that a traditional MagSafe, a MagSafe 2,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or we can embrace this new USB type C, is that right? I already forgot what it’s called, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey USB-C. And we could make it dual power and peripherals.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And because people are slow and dimwitted myself included, because I just earlier

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the show talked about how I have to have my USB ports and then couldn’t figure out exactly which ones I needed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or what I needed them for because people are slow and dimwitted, they need to know that they have some sort

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of parachute and they have some sort of escape hatch that allows them to plug

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something in. It may not be something that is worthwhile to you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or to Ben Thompson or to whoever, but at least people know that they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have, even if it’s by way of a $20 adapter, they have a means of plugging in a USB

⏹️ ▶️ Casey device if the need arises. And so that to me is a much better

⏹️ ▶️ Casey choice than straight up MagSafe 2 because at least it gives options. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey granted, Apple doesn’t always like to give options, but as they’re dragging

⏹️ ▶️ Casey people into the future, and they refuse to stop thinking about tomorrow, John, they’re trying to give

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some people the option of plugging in these legacy devices for the little bit of time they have to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in order to move the world forward in the same way that they use that they did, and I think still do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey support using another computers optical drive. If for some crazy reason, you’re on a MacBook Air

⏹️ ▶️ Casey must use an optical drive,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re arguing against zero ports and not for one port, like you’re saying you’re saying is if well, they need to have a port. So

⏹️ ▶️ John people feel this safe. Yeah, I agree. I’m not saying now is the time to go with zero. But you’re not arguing against two.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, what is the argument? Like, everything you said applies to two parts just as well as one. You know what I mean? Jay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Haynes Yes, I do. And I think the only answer I have is the answer that you’re not going to allow,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is, this is the size case they wanted. This is what they wanted to do.

⏹️ ▶️ John David Weller If that was their philosophy, if they actually did design the case first and figure out how

⏹️ ▶️ John to get the insides out, which seems like a not a great philosophy for it, because I mean, you get

⏹️ ▶️ John the realities are like, they didn’t know how small they can make them out of the board. They didn’t like they just I just maybe they do design

⏹️ ▶️ John it from the outside in If that’s the way they do it. I don’t know. That’s fine I just think that’s a bad way to design things because

⏹️ ▶️ John The insides have such an effect on the outside that if you are dead set on some particular dimensions

⏹️ ▶️ John Like how would you even come up with those dimensions? Why not make it half this thickness? Well, you know the reality

⏹️ ▶️ John of you know what the realities of the insides there has to be some key travel You have to find bad to put battery somewhere

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if you at a certain point you can’t have moving keys with batteries

⏹️ ▶️ John underneath them because it’s not thick enough So I feel like the insides do have Some effect on the outside, but

⏹️ ▶️ John regardless even if Apple totally designs the case first and figure out how they can fit everything in it

⏹️ ▶️ John I think That’s a bad philosophy and they should design them together as as one and working

⏹️ ▶️ John in a single unit and that there should be some form of you know, like

⏹️ ▶️ John a Decision of what kind of product you’re gonna make is this gonna be the one that has no ports? No, it’s gonna be the one that has some ports. How many ports is it

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna have? Where are they gonna go like you? Design that into it. Um someone in the chat

⏹️ ▶️ John room says like that again Missing the idea that I think it’s perfectly fine for this to have one and nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John will care about geeks Which I will keep repeating but people will keep telling me that I don’t understand that because I totally do

⏹️ ▶️ John This is like when the I’m ahead no floppy drive and I would say it’s more like the iMac if the iMac only had one Floppy

⏹️ ▶️ John drive instead of two floppy drives like the Mac SE had That’s what it’s like. It’s like we’re getting rid of floppy drives.

⏹️ ▶️ John They didn’t get rid of the ports there’s still ports they just have one of them instead of two right

⏹️ ▶️ John and can you get away with one of the ports that are two yeah you can but what am i getting you know floppy drives are much larger than these tiny little

⏹️ ▶️ John USB ports what am i getting with one port that I’m not getting with two and other than making some kind of philosophical

⏹️ ▶️ John statement and maybe saving a few millimeters here and there on not on thickness but on width and height

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe somewhere I just don’t see what it is that I’m getting with with one USB port instead

⏹️ ▶️ John of two even it even if you just pick it like it wouldn’t be great to be able to put the power on both sides depending on

⏹️ ▶️ John how you arrange your stuff on your desk. That’s another thing you’d be getting with two ports instead of one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sure, but you would have a thicker computer, which is not what Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John wants. Would it

⏹️ ▶️ John be thicker? I don’t think it would be thicker. It would be like length and width. If you just shift the keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ John down two millimeters, make the case longer two millimeters there, maybe it will fit in the existing case

⏹️ ▶️ John for all we know. I’m still not entirely convinced that that wouldn’t fit there. Some people said because it fits on one side and you have the headphone port

⏹️ ▶️ John on the other. I’m not quite sure if you couldn’t get it to fit like that. I just, you know, they designed the case.

⏹️ ▶️ John They can make it would not be appreciably bigger if it had two of them, I feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it would be bigger it would be bigger than it absolutely Has to

⏹️ ▶️ John be it would get slightly longer battery life too because the bigger case would be a more room for battery

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You know what? I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s just but then it’ll be heavier and and the weight like that It would be the 13-inch right in the retina

⏹️ ▶️ John But but it wouldn’t be like it again Do you think this machine with no taper would still be extremely

⏹️ ▶️ John distinct from the 13-inch? Extremely it would be it would be way lighter way thinner, right? it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John and again, all these things are saying I’m not saying this is a reason this machine is no good, or whatever. It’s perfectly fine

⏹️ ▶️ John for everybody. All I’m arguing about is for my specific needs are the needs of the geek people,

⏹️ ▶️ John where this computer could be a change in a way to broaden its appeal, with broaden it without narrowing the

⏹️ ▶️ John appeal without making it worse for those people because they are not going to notice the, you know, even just lessen

⏹️ ▶️ John the taper, like they’re not going to notice that they don’t, they’re not going to that such connoisseurs, they can say, Oh, this one is tapered slightly less

⏹️ ▶️ John than the other one, or wasn’t the other one tapered a lot. And this one’s only tapered a little or not at all, like, they don’t care. It would be 2.1

⏹️ ▶️ John pounds instead of two pounds. They don’t care. They don’t notice those things. Next year’s one would be two pounds.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like they’ll, they’ll eventually get there when the CPU takes two Watts instead of five, you know what I mean? Like

⏹️ ▶️ John there are very few drawbacks for the additions that I’m suggesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But there, there are a few drawbacks to you, or you don’t think the drawbacks are big. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who, who would notice these drawbacks? Who? I see. I don’t know that a regular person or even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would notice them, but the The thing is, I’m not the one designing this computer and regular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey people aren’t the ones designing this computer. This is all about what Apple wants and Apple wants the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thinnest fricking computer they can get and the small… Yeah, Apple wanted a

⏹️ ▶️ John round mouse too and they were wrong on that one too and they still say they were right on that, so…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But that’s the thing is that they still think they were right. Apple does what Apple wants to do and that’s the end of the fricking meeting. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes, I understand what you’re saying that for an almost imperceptibly small addition in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey volume and in surface area, we could have another port.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that unequivocally, I am not arguing, would be hugely useful. But in the end of the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey day, the design goal for this machine seems very clearly to be make it as frickin tiny as you can.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s what they’ve done.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, that was true. You get rid of the USB port and making a tiny inductive charging thing that slaps onto

⏹️ ▶️ John it like a little lamp ray and then we make it even thinner. It’s not as thin as possible. You could make this thing thinner, you could

⏹️ ▶️ John reduce the key travel further, you could make make the trackpad shallower, you could make this thing smaller and lighter. At some

⏹️ ▶️ John point they, everything is a, you know, like this particular compromise is, there’s nothing dictating this

⏹️ ▶️ John particular size. You could make it even smaller and even thinner, shaving even more

⏹️ ▶️ John of these things off, millimeter here, millimeter there. They decided to shop shaving at this point

⏹️ ▶️ John and, and they decided it wasn’t important enough to find room for the second, second part, and it isn’t important

⏹️ ▶️ John enough, like this machine is great, it’s great for almost everybody. I’m just nippling at this little tiny

⏹️ ▶️ John edge. This is the problem that you know, it sounds like, oh, you’re complaining about this and you’re being defensive about this one thing. Machine

⏹️ ▶️ John is great. It’s great for almost everybody. I would recommend this machine. More this market was saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, who this replaces, like the 13 inch air is the one. Yes, totally. If someone says I want a computer

⏹️ ▶️ John plus or minus the keyboard travel, which I have to try myself before I completely unequivocally recommend it for everybody. This is the one

⏹️ ▶️ John to get. that Apple correctly named this MacBook and not MacBook Air or any other

⏹️ ▶️ John variant. This is the MacBook. This is the future of laptops. Love everything

⏹️ ▶️ John about it. Just have these few quibbles and then we keep arguing about it because people think these quibbles

⏹️ ▶️ John are not valid complaints in any way. And I think they’re totally valid complaints about this machine

⏹️ ▶️ John that is the best laptop Apple has ever made. It’s probably the best laptop for everybody except for people

⏹️ ▶️ John listening to the show. Maybe. So, John, when you gonna buy buy one.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I might

⏹️ ▶️ John get one to replace my wife’s because like I said, the 13 inch,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco she’s got

⏹️ ▶️ John a 13 inch air and I hear those stupid fans running all the time and the screen is terrible and you can’t look at it.

⏹️ ▶️ John And this one would probably be faster. Like even though the CPU is probably slower, the SSD in it is probably

⏹️ ▶️ John faster. It really depends on actually I can’t really use to replace that until I see if they

⏹️ ▶️ John have a something to connect it to a monitor, you know, the equivalent of the Thunderbolt display where

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ll have some kind of adapter a power thing because it sits in the desk,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right? Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, they do only for HDMI and VGA. Notably,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it can’t connect to an Apple Thunderbolt display.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I know, but like I’m assuming they’ll come up with a new display, you know, and it can’t power the big retina one. So you can’t power the

⏹️ ▶️ John 5K iMac style size display from this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s actually a good point. I think if they’re going to come out with a new display, it’s going to be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 5K 27 inch. But if they do that, this laptop can’t drive that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, don’t you think room in their lineup for like a 24 inch retina type thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, no, I don’t. I mean, they haven’t had one for years. Well, I mean, considering

⏹️ ▶️ John they don’t seem to want to make monitors at all anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s Yeah, I think that’s the big thing. I think they’re gonna at some point they’re going to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 5k Thunderbolt external display for whatever version of Thunderbolt can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco support that and or maybe what it may be a future version of USB C. Maybe the current USB C can support it and we just don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know it. But I think people ran the numbers on actual GPU in this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco particular MacBook. And I think it can’t do output at more than 4K. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it wouldn’t surprise me if Apple’s just going to wait until whatever bus can support it and whatever economics

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can support it and just do it in like two years. And only the MacBook Pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the previous year can plug into it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would like to have one of these, like I said, sitting on a little… The table next to my couch or on my bedside table.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know what I mean? I tend not to like laptops. But If I was gonna get one, it would be this type of thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like super thin, super light, all I’m doing it is web browsing and typing because as much as I love my iPads,

⏹️ ▶️ John if it comes time to bang out an email, I don’t wanna do it on my iPad. I would much rather have this thing. So yeah, I would totally buy this

⏹️ ▶️ John for myself if I had money hanging around for a laptop, which I don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think you nailed it though. Like this does have lots of great uses.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that’s one of the things I’ve considered for years picking up like an old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or refurb very, very baseline 11 inch air to basically be my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bedside laptop. Because I will so often want… We’ll go up to bed and I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be like, Oh, I had an idea. Before we go to bed, I want to type up an idea or for a blog

⏹️ ▶️ Marco post or type up an email or something or respond to some emails or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I want to do things that involve typing. And normally, I just have an iPad up there. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t like doing those things like you on an iPad. I’d rather have a keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ John So do you use dictation? I’ve been doing that lately because dictation is actually pretty good in iOS and like I don’t want to type

⏹️ ▶️ John So I will just use the dictation thing on the keyboard on iOS to do longer things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would very quickly be kicked out of bed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John if I if I tried that

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean mostly yeah, you don’t do it when someone is sleeping next to you, obviously, but I You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John I find it more efficient than trying to type but I still want a keyboard for something longer, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, and so like if I if I use laptops a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I I would totally get one of these things for my like bedside laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But because I tend to only have one laptop and I don’t use it so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco often that I would be able to justify having a second one I probably you know, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not gonna do it, but You know, I totally see that like I think they’re gonna sell a lot of these things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco For a whole bunch of uses where people aren’t really plugging anything into it except power sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I’m sorry you’re saying this would be your night felt laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah My downstairs laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John if you if you can afford to have one of these things in every room You should have an iPad the air to in every room and one of these

⏹️ ▶️ John things in every room Yes, just for convenience, you know, just so you can pick it up But well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can even you can have three different colors now So you can have you can have like, you know, my weekend one is the gold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, well, no, no, no, you got to have one in every room and then as the seasons change you rotate them out for once

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s totally on board with this plan. I can tell probably two more tiny tidbits about this thing so we can move

⏹️ ▶️ John on no more light up Apple logo on the back instead. It’s mirrored.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I you know, I’m actually surprised it took them this long to do that because there has to you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to some degree that’s that’s leaking a non-trivial amount of light and it weakens the weekends the back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the case to yeah, it weakens the back of the case. It’s leaking light out so that you got to compensate for that. So the screen is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco evenly lit and it’s and that and you know I’m sure it was power and I’m sure it’s not a massive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco amount. I mean there’s a there’s a ton of light behind an LCD anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s something and so as you get more and more power constraint as you try to try to eat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every little bit of battery life out of something and every little bit of power out of something that starts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to become significant and so I mean in this case it was probably honestly in this case was probably about thickness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and not any not any other reason,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John but

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it’s kind of like that look, not that it’s tired or anything like it is still kind of a nice look, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a little tired. It’s old at this point, and adding mirror gives a lot of the same effects, but just with

⏹️ ▶️ John like kind of a different look and they can show off like their precision polishing and machining of things. I think it’s nice. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the other one is the backlit keyboard, which I kind of like backlit keyboards, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I never like the kind of way like the light leakage around them. It just wasn’t really like a clean look. And now

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, obviously they emphasize this again as a feature, but it’s a side effect of the fact that the keyboard is so

⏹️ ▶️ John damn thin that you can’t there’s no room for an entire layer of light underneath the thing. Embedding tiny

⏹️ ▶️ John LEDs inside each thing actually probably save space and is a nicer look and it’s just better. And all I could think of

⏹️ ▶️ John was, can you imagine going up to the menu in your Mac menu bar and hovering over menu item and seeing the keyboard shortcut

⏹️ ▶️ John highlighted with LEDs on the laptop like if they just did that system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wide? Oh, yeah. I mean, a lot of people were saying like, wouldn’t it be awesome if these things were software controllable,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do you want to turn turn them on and off dynamically. Now, the reality is, as I was thinking through it, that sounds incredible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s very unlikely that that’s possible in this version, because that would require controller hardware in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the keyboard to be able to independently turn them on and off, as opposed to just turn on all of them and turn off all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them at this brightness level, you know? And that circuitry probably doesn’t exist in this model. It’d

⏹️ ▶️ John be a pretty thin wire. You could be done, if it’s going to show up, and really, it’s mostly

⏹️ ▶️ John just like a cool nice to have thing. Maybe it would be helpful for like training purposes

⏹️ ▶️ John of just like reminding you what the keyboard shortcut is. I don’t really know. It just seems cool. But it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, if there was going to show up anywhere, I would show up on one of the thicker computers first. And honestly,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not entirely convinced that the use case is just as soon as you have individual lights, you immediately

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco start thinking of

⏹️ ▶️ John ways to control.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, the use case is just like the use case of having a light up keyboard at all. It’s cool.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, some people who aren’t touch typists need to look at the key caps

⏹️ ▶️ John to see where the keys are. And even people who are touch typists occasionally need to look at what symbols on that FN key because you don’t remember

⏹️ ▶️ John where.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, but even if you’re in a pitch black room, the reflected light from the screen is usually enough to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco illuminate the keyboard enough. I mean, illuminating keyboards are really nice. Totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unnecessary, but really cool and really nice. And that’s they do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know a lot of people who swear by the backlight keyboard and will say that, whether this is true or not, will say that they

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t type in the dark without the backlight on the keyboard. You know, and I agree with you about the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John light and everything like that, but many people are very attached to it and I’ve seen people not buy Macs because they

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t have the backlight keyboard. It just seems nice. And this seems much nicer than, like

⏹️ ▶️ John I said, than the old backlight that was always leaking from around the keys. This just looks like what I always imagined it would be like, just like the little

⏹️ ▶️ John letters on the keys light up, like they do on a car dashboard, right? In the daytime it just looks like white letters, in the night time

⏹️ ▶️ John white light comes out of the letters. They haven’t done the reverse one yet, but that’ll, maybe in a couple years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Alright, well, that’s the whole event, so thanks a lot to our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey three sponsors this week,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casper, Warby Parker, and Hover, and we will see you next week.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even mean to begin, cause it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was accidental, oh it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey wouldn’t let him, cause it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental. And you can find the

⏹️ ▶️ John show notes at ATP.FM. And if you’re into Twitter, And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse. It’s accidental. They

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t mean to. Tech podcasts so long.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re really gonna do the watch on the after show?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re almost two hours. What are we gonna do?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s why I asked in Skype like 20 minutes ago, are we just going for the whole thing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John or are we just gonna-

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like I can go longer on that laptop. And we’re still gonna get angry emails from telling me that I don’t get it, that only, that just because

⏹️ ▶️ John geeks don’t like this. Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re going to go longer because we’re going to get feedback email and we’re going to talk about it next week. So we’re going to go… No question, we’re going to go longer on the laptop.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I suppose.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I mean, personally, I’m hoping… The reason I’m waiting for the 15, just even if I don’t end up buying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 15, I want to wait to see what it is because it’s possible at some point, they’re going to bring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some of the advances they made in this laptop to the other laptops. They always do that, right? So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at some point, there’s going to be a 15 inch Retina MacBook Pro of some sort that has some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the advances of this. Now, when they brought brought to the 13 at the same time, it only got the trackpad and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Broadwell. No other changes. Broadwell CPUs for the for the retina 15

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch are due out by Intel roughly this summer and Intel’s always late, so we’ll see. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe they really see they might have a new 15 inch retina to show off.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you think it’s going to have the like the new keyboard backlights in there? Like what other parts are you looking to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco say? So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it might, you know, we don’t know. I mean, you know, it’s there’s obviously it’s going to have the four struck track back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they brought that to the 13 inch. We can tell that’s an easy thing to just bring over. So it’ll obviously have four stacks trackpad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe it’ll be thinner and lighter by a little bit. Who knows? Probably not because those four core chips need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of power. So probably not. But maybe it’ll have space gray gold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco options. You know, maybe like we don’t know it at some point. Some of these benefits

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are going to move up the line. Right. So maybe it’ll have the weird new keyboard. Maybe not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We don’t know. But we’re going to have six more months roughly or five,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco four more months between now and then for them to have time with these technologies to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco move up. So they might move up this year, they might move up in two or three years, who knows?

⏹️ ▶️ John It might be nice to see the butterfly keyboard, but with longer travel, like the supposed stability of the butterfly

⏹️ ▶️ John key switches.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that’s solving a problem that nobody has actually had.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of agree that like, you know, because I’ve used these, you know, the Apple aluminum keyboard for a while and I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John broken several of them just just from using them where the key that some switches start to get sticky Like those little switches

⏹️ ▶️ John are not yeah like they’ll get to the point where the I forget which key was but one of them like will start sticking

⏹️ ▶️ John and then I’ve Disassembled them and reassemble them enough times to like it’s they never quite

⏹️ ▶️ John come back to the way they were like there They do start to get a little wobbly and One side of them will stick

⏹️ ▶️ John down because it will it doesn’t go down straight It does go down tilted and then one start of its I starts to stick It’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John because you know, I’m always hitting the edge of a particular key instead of dead center So if you could get keys

⏹️ ▶️ John that go up and down and without tilting maybe they’ll last longer

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think it’s so much about feel. It’s just in terms of durability. I’ve I think it work I’m on my third one of

⏹️ ▶️ John these keyboards Maybe I’m still pressing a little bit too hard But they’re not they’re not as they’re not as sturdy as they could be

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s fine trail for a laptop But for a desktop keyboard, I feel like you know Anyway, I would like to see

⏹️ ▶️ John this mechanism with longer travel just to see how it would be because I was I felt like I I found that marketing video showing the key

⏹️ ▶️ John moving up and down more straight, even when it’s not hit dead center. I found that fairly compelling.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It makes me sad to hear you talk about a butterfly keyboard and not be talking about a ThinkPad.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know about that one. When Marco was talking about his disappointment, like if he got a smaller

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop and then he had the small screen, he would be cursing, you know, like, why didn’t I just get the bigger screen? This is I feel so cramped. All I could think

⏹️ ▶️ John of was like a laptop that opens up and like the screen gets bigger when you unfold it. You know, like it’s a 15 inch screen, you

⏹️ ▶️ John close it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up and it’s a 13 inch size. Well, I mean, and one thing I thought about, like, now that there’s all these apps that use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco USB lightning cable to make an iPad a second screen, I thought, well, what if I, like, you know, take out an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad and have that be my second monitor for a laptop?

⏹️ ▶️ John Take out your iPad Pro. That’ll be like, what? That’s 15 inches, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, but that’s…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can you imagine, like, you’re sitting on a plane, like, trying to just have any room at all, and the guy next to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you is setting up this, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John multi-monitor setup? Can

⏹️ ▶️ John I use your tray table for my second monitor?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re cool, right? Exactly. Yeah, you’re like fighting over the armrest and he’s taking out two iPads to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this

⏹️ ▶️ John triple monitor. Someone needs to, yeah, someone needs to go to the bathroom. You just have to start disassembling the setup.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, VR will take care of that. So all those things that are on tray tables will be strapped to your face and everyone will

⏹️ ▶️ John just be sitting there and their, what is it, a fart tube full of long pigs?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m mixing my erotic references. Wow. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, so do we want to talk about this Apple Watch before everyone just quits the show? Oh yeah, the

⏹️ ▶️ John watch. We can quickly, I think we can cover it in five minutes, right? The only thing we need to do in a timely manner

⏹️ ▶️ John is I think address the pricing stuff. I don’t even remember what our

⏹️ ▶️ John predictions are. I remember saying, I think in the last show, one of the essential questions was, will you

⏹️ ▶️ John be able to get into an Apple Watch edition for four digits? And I said that 9999 didn’t count. The answer to that is no.

⏹️ ▶️ John will not be able to get an Apple Watch Edition for four digits. They were close though. They went 10 K

⏹️ ▶️ John like they could have gone 9999 but that’s unseemly for such an expensive item. 10 K

⏹️ ▶️ John you cannot get into one for less. Uh, and all the other predictions

⏹️ ▶️ John that Gruber was the most obsessive thing that I was reading about this. He kept revising his predictions. He had a predictions for every single possible

⏹️ ▶️ John combination of stuff. I haven’t, he hasn’t posted his like big postmortem follow up. How did I

⏹️ ▶️ John do on pricing things? So maybe I’m wrong about this, but my impression was that what Gruber

⏹️ ▶️ John mostly got wrong and what I was most surprised by was the big gap

⏹️ ▶️ John that there’s a bunch of fairly reasonable price watches and then a big gigantic gap and then

⏹️ ▶️ John 10k instead of like a smooth slope where you work your way up to 10k by increments going

⏹️ ▶️ John up and up with more expensive watches, more expensive band it’s you know, like a spread price range. My

⏹️ ▶️ John recollection of Gruber’s predictions, which I of course did not look at before the show were that it was a

⏹️ ▶️ John much more gradual slope. Like if you graft it, whereas the actual prices were like, Oh, all the Apple watches are

⏹️ ▶️ John pretty reasonable prices. Then there’s a big empty space

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and then rich people. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think I believe he was saying the link bracelet stainless steel one was going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like 1500 and possibly 2000. So like that’s in that range. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s not you know, he wasn’t that far. I mean, of most of the people making price predictions, I I think he was among the closest,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if not the closest, notable person predicting these things. I mean, he was saying addition would be 10 to 20,000,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which it is, exactly. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that’s pretty much what everybody was saying. That’s why the question was, will you be able to get an addition for, will

⏹️ ▶️ John there be a super low-end addition one that you can just barely get in for like 7,999 or something? And

⏹️ ▶️ John the answer is no. But it was close. We all knew they were gonna go into five

⏹️ ▶️ John digits, and then the question is how high would they go? And surprisingly, they stopped before 20K, right? the most expensive one you can get

⏹️ ▶️ John at 717 and a lot of people are predicting 10 2030 K in that range. So it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s like the reasonable price watches a big gap and then the additions pretty tightly clustered around 10 K.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Overall, I’m very happy with the pricing. You know, I I am not at all a gold person.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t want gold even if it was similarly priced as steel. I would choose steel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I just I just don’t like gold coloring stuff on me. You know, know, just not my thing. So I was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never considering it to begin with. So the fact that it’s $10,000 and up, I don’t care. Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know? Yeah, I find it kind of gaudy as well. And I was afraid that the steel one was going to be like

⏹️ ▶️ John the predictions were like steel, like the steel one with the steel link bracelet. If that was like 1500 2000, like there’s no way in hell

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to be, because that’s the one I would like to get if I, if I was going to get one, which I’m not like, cause that one looks really good.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m happy to see that one down around. Like at this point, like all of the Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John just ignore the goal once pretend they’re not even there because Apple kind of is too and maybe we’ll talk about that next week. But all the Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John watches are like, look, like every time I go buy an iPad, I end up spending close

⏹️ ▶️ John to $1,000 on my iPad. I feel bad about at the time but I really like my iPads and I use them a lot. You’re going to go into the store

⏹️ ▶️ John to get an Apple watch it starts 350 you’re probably going to walk out. If you’re like me with an Apple watch,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s pushing up into $1,000 and you’ll feel bad about it when you buy it and you feel like you

⏹️ ▶️ John really didn’t spend too much but you’ll like it and it will be fine because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how are you getting to $1,000 you personally with an Apple watch I know it can be done but oh well because I would want

⏹️ ▶️ John to steal one with the link bracelet okay right that’s that’s pretty much the top of the top range

⏹️ ▶️ John of the the normal watches and for the gold ones I really like the gold for the gold one with the red

⏹️ ▶️ John band in terms of the color scheming but I think that’s more of a woman’s look than a man’s

⏹️ ▶️ John look

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco but I definitely is

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that is the place that where the gold looks the best all the other gold ones I’ve seen, like you said, Marco, like just

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t appeal to me taste-wise. I think, in fact, I think the way the gold one would look better is if they made a gold link

⏹️ ▶️ John brace. It was like, look, just go all in. It’s a gold watch. It is like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know, it is

⏹️ ▶️ John just goldie

⏹️ ▶️ Marco McGolderson. Well, and I think the reason they’re not is I think they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really dipping their toe in the water with this. Like, I don’t think they’re, you know, the reason why there’s limited quantity

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t only going to be in certain stores is partly for exclusivity and partly for price reasons, but it’s also partly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because, you know, like I tweeted the other day during the event that it wouldn’t surprise me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if there is no Apple edition 2. Like, if this is a one-off, really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is the only time they ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John do this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I saw you tweet that. What makes you think that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not saying this will fail, and I’m saying it wouldn’t surprise me if this happened, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does seem like Apple is kind of unsure whether this will even work or not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it seems very clear that that’s an experiment. The rest of the Apple Watch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re serious about it. The Edition, you can tell, is an experiment. And it could go great, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it could sell like gangbusters. It might prove to be not worth it for them, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco selling gangbusters for that is going to be still a relatively small volume.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It might just be that the complexity is not worth it, that the divide in marketing isn’t worth it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever. are this won’t be the case. Chances are they’ll keep having it. All I said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was it wouldn’t surprise me if this happened.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it would surprise me because I think no matter how successful this is, they’re still going to want to sell a gold one of these.

⏹️ ▶️ John And maybe they’ll bring the prices down if it wasn’t successful. I think it will be successful, so I think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John moot. But like, yeah, I think there’s pretty much no way the addition line can fail

⏹️ ▶️ John because the success criteria are so limited. Like they don’t expect to sell a lot of them.

⏹️ ▶️ John But they seem committed to the idea that if you’re in the

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re going to sell watches, the watch market has this little part that’s like this. And if you’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John to sell watches, you have to be in it like they don’t feel like they have to do it on the low end, but they feel like they always have this kind of the same reason

⏹️ ▶️ John they keep making the Mac Pro like computers go up to computers that personal computers go up to this end.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’re and we sell we don’t sell low end computers we sell you know, we want the top

⏹️ ▶️ John part of the market and computers do go up to this part. So we should have one in that space. And I think it’s even more of

⏹️ ▶️ John an imperative to do that with watches because like, you know, you could argue that the whole Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John part of the watch thing is all sort of towards the addition, and they’re not really into the swatch part, it just so happens that their swatchy

⏹️ ▶️ John one is still 350 bucks, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, a lot of people, Gruber included, as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have been doing very smart analysis. So has Jonathan Geller, but you need to report guy, he’s been doing good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff on like, you know, like the perspective of Apple Watch, as a watch person as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the kind of person who is familiar with the existing high-end watch business. I don’t think Apple really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cares that much about the existing high-end watch business and how they fit into it because the reality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is they’re going to be selling these things mostly to people who don’t wear watches, who aren’t part of that high-end business.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The addition may be more than people, but I bet not. I bet the addition sells mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to geeks like us and people who like technology, who are just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot wealthier and who care a lot more about this kind of stuff. I’m not saying it’s going to be all geeks. I’m saying it’s going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be like, you know, not people who are… No one’s going to be price shopping and saying, you know what,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I could get a Rolex or I could get the gold Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, no. I think you’re thinking about it wrong. This is not an iPhone you wear on your wrist. That’s where you’re wrong about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a reason there’s not a gold iPhone. Apple doesn’t make a gold iPhone. And it’s not just because

⏹️ ▶️ John phones don’t go like… Because they do. People make those, the Virtu, whatever encrusted phone thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John Why, why don’t, why doesn’t Apple make a gold iPhone, but they are making gold watches? Because the watch is jewelry.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a thing that you wear. It is a beautiful thing in and of itself. It is a different class of product. It is fashion.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s where you cross that threshold, as we talked about in many past shows. Once you wear something, not carry it with

⏹️ ▶️ John you, even when you carry it with you, you’re going to have the fancy cases and everything, but once you wear it and it’s jewelry

⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s an established piece of jewelry called the watch, I think you have to address the

⏹️ ▶️ John market of people who like to wear gold jewelry. And it’s not just rich people

⏹️ ▶️ John like I mean, I know the 10k one is like that, but just in general, like, I think that it’s a different

⏹️ ▶️ John nature of this product is different. I think you have to address that market if you’re going to be in the high end. But I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John you need to make a gold iPhone because I like I think you know, you’re right about the most people who are going to buy Apple watches

⏹️ ▶️ John are exactly as you describe. But I think the people who are going to buy gold ones are the people who are buying it as

⏹️ ▶️ John a piece of jewelry. That also does cool stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I agree. No, I didn’t say that. I didn’t word myself very well there. So forgive me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What I mean is that even the people who buy the gold one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are going to be people who are not, who were not otherwise wearing a gold watch necessarily. Some of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be, but I think even among the gold sales, I bet most people who buy the gold watches…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Don’t have any other gold watches? First of all, I bet they’re not going to be like white dudes on a podcast about computers, first of all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think it’s going to be mostly people who are buying it because it is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Watch, not because it is the newest gold watch in the world,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but because it is specifically the gold Apple Watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, oh yeah, of course. But those are going to be people who already own gold watches, I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re buying it because they own gold watches. They want a new gold watch. This watch gives

⏹️ ▶️ John them something other watches don’t. Let me try that computer watch that also happens to be gold. You know what I mean? But I would

⏹️ ▶️ John imagine the number of people who buy the gold Apple Watch as their first gold watch is very small.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mmm. I well, I mean, we’ll probably never know this information. I would bet against that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but

⏹️ ▶️ John well, none of us own gold watches and one of us can afford a gold watch but doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know what I mean. So like

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re going to buy a gold watch, certainly you Marco if you were forced to buy a gold watch, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the one you’d buy right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All three of us could buy it just to be fair. We just wouldn’t. All three of us.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean, it really

⏹️ ▶️ John depends on where you you know, you want to allocate your money if I’m I could do it a college You know, I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John buy a gold watch. But anyway, yeah, like we are not watch people. We don’t we don’t buy expensive watches like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, so that’s why we have difficulty talking about the whole, you know, and we don’t none of us wear even do we even any of us even wear jewelry

⏹️ ▶️ John at all?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wear a watch. I don’t know if you’d classify my watch my twenty thirty dollar Timex watches jewelry

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is he as it is a plastic because I don’t know if that

⏹️ ▶️ John counts as jewelry. Is it floral asthma?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean that kind of counts. You do wear a watch. think of it as like a fashion thing where

⏹️ ▶️ John you would like where you look at your outfit and decide whether the watch is appropriate to wear with your outfit

⏹️ ▶️ John or no?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, ish. So I actually have two watches. One is my daily watch which is my $30

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Timex and the other is a Citizen that Aaron got me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Christmas a year or two ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right so that counts. I mean and I think I think all of our wives would agree that Casey is the most fashionable out

⏹️ ▶️ John of all three of us. Not Not that that’s a high bar at all, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey just… And I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey particularly fashionable. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John compared to us.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Well, there’s that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But all kidding aside, I do only wear the Citizen, generally speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I’m dressing up for something nice, like a wedding or Christmas holiday party.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If I were to spend $10,000 on a watch today, which I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t and wouldn’t, but if I were, I would absolutely be getting something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that does not say Apple on it. I would probably get a Panerai if I could find one small enough for my little tiny wrist.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you do have a little bit of, I don’t know what that is. So it shows you are actually, you know something about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey this whole world of watches.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marginally. A friend of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John mine. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me with my

⏹️ ▶️ John Ferraris.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know about them, but. Well, you know a lot more about Ferraris than I know about watches. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a friend who is really into watches. And so I saw, or I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have seen a lot of his watches. So I’ve seen his Rolexes, his Panerais, and I forget what other ones, Omegas.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There’s others that he has that I don’t recall off the top of my head. But I always

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really fancied his Panerais. Now, the thing with the Panerais is, or any Panerai I’ve ever seen, is that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey freaking huge. And I have little teeny tiny wrists.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so because of that, I don’t think I could actually get one. But in this hypothetical,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I were to spend serious money on a watch, I would get something like that, there is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no chance I would get an Apple watch because I want something that’s going to age and age well. And there’s something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey classic about a traditional analog watch that I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think an Apple watch would hold up over time. I mean, look at any movie you watch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and you see flip phones or everyone makes fun of the Zack Morris cell phone from Saved by the Bell.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, this might be close though because I mean it might end up being like a class

⏹️ ▶️ John because watches because the trend in watches is so gargantuan this watch is not

⏹️ ▶️ John the biggest gold watch you can get like it’s not like it’s not like the pebble where it’s conspicuous

⏹️ ▶️ John in like oh that’s got computer crap in it that’s why it’s so damn big because it’s actually smaller that’s not what I hear from

⏹️ ▶️ John all the people who are there trying the watches on themselves which I haven’t done but that it is when you try

⏹️ ▶️ John it on it is smaller than you think it is like in the picture is it’s always right up in our face and looks like it’s the size

⏹️ ▶️ John of like the Hindenburg right but but when you actually put it on it seems smaller so I think it is not out

⏹️ ▶️ John of step with the size of regular watches and it will be defined like you know it looks

⏹️ ▶️ John like a little Airstream trailer and it will be defined by its look and so when we see this watch like

⏹️ ▶️ John two decades from now in a movie or something it will evoke the time but I don’t think it will seem

⏹️ ▶️ John obsolete in the way that flip phones do because I think it’s about the size of a watch like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not the size of a computer watch it’s about the size of a watch watch right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well it’s a fairly unusual shape for for most fashionable watches

⏹️ ▶️ John but I mean you look at the Mark Newsome’s other watches that he’s made that look also look like Airstream trailers but don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have computers inside them

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco but you have identical bands

⏹️ ▶️ John right like I said it’s it it’s going to look like a particular shape of a watch and I think that will evoke the time

⏹️ ▶️ John and the particulars of the Apple watch but I don’t think it will look dated in the way that phones the size of bricks

⏹️ ▶️ John that you hold to your head look dated. You know what I mean?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but you don’t think these are going to get extremely thin. I mean, they already have all the ports gone. God, I couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey say that with a straight face.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John they have the secret lightning port inside

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the band thing. That is true actually. But, but all kidding aside, you don’t think that these are going to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey considerably thinner over time?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no, I think they will go thinner, but like, I, what I’m saying is that I think they’re below the threshold of embarrassment

⏹️ ▶️ John and they will, it will just be look like a fashion choice, like bell bottoms, like, you know, the The pants did get thinner around the

⏹️ ▶️ John ankles. Bell bottoms do look silly, but we don’t look at them and say that’s back when they had to make the bottom of pants really wide. They

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t have to, it was a fashion thing. And even though they kind of have to because of battery and other concerns here,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s within the boundaries of watch size, especially since, like you said, that Panerai, especially since the trend

⏹️ ▶️ John now is for these gargantuan watches, at least in men’s watches, that it won’t look

⏹️ ▶️ John that crazy. Of course, I mean, your point still stands about, like, you want to have something that a standard

⏹️ ▶️ John test of time or whatever, this thing’s going to go obsolete. The battery’s going to die. The internals are going to be terrible. Eventually, you’re not going to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John to it won’t even be able to connect to your iPhone 17 anymore. Like it’s going to go away in a way

⏹️ ▶️ John that a ten thousand dollar gold other watch won’t go away simply because that one just does less and it will be just

⏹️ ▶️ John as good when you hand it to your grandchild. You hand your grandchild this. They’re not going to turn their nose up at it because like it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John a flip phone. They’re going to turn their nose about it because they have the battery will probably be dead and be even if it’s not,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’ll be nothing they can do with it. Like all the function, all its functionality will be gone because,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, we’ll be on to Bluetooth standard 17 or whatever. You know what I mean? Like it just won’t work anymore. It just

⏹️ ▶️ John won’t do its job anymore. Whereas the traditional watch will continue to do its job exactly the same.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and you know, and Casey, you know, you’re you’re saying you you would treat a very expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch purchase like like an addition as an investment. You know, like you would want this to be a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long lasting piece that you would probably have the rest of your life and probably hand down to your kids and grandkids.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Absolutely. That is completely not how people are going to be thinking about this, and Apple knows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that and they’re willing to take that risk because there are enough people in the world. Many of them not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in North America, there are a lot of people in the world who are very happy to spend $10,000 or $17,000 to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco themselves or their loved ones one of these. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s no coincidence that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco red and gold one is probably the best looking one in the lineup and that it’s one of the most expensive and that those are China’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors and that it’s made for women. I think all those things are extremely

⏹️ ▶️ John deliberate. And they demoed WeChat on the thing instead of iMessage, remember that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, this is gonna sell in ridiculous quantities in China

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because we don’t understand the culture there from what people who do understand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it say And what we’ve been able to learn is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is going to sell like crazy to a lot of people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like the 80s there. Ostentatious shows of wealth are not

⏹️ ▶️ John frowned upon to the degree that they are in other – I mean, everything is a continuum. I think ostentation

⏹️ ▶️ John shows of wealth are frowned upon more in some places and less than others. In the US in the

⏹️ ▶️ John 80s, for example, everything was about gold and showing off your fancy things and wearing

⏹️ ▶️ John your – and then there was kind of a grunge reversal of that. Like so we know the US trends, but in

⏹️ ▶️ John an up and coming China with a rising middle class, showing your status and how much wealth you’ve gained

⏹️ ▶️ John seems to be more acceptable in that country right now than it is in ours, to the point where like having gold

⏹️ ▶️ John and shiny things is like, you know, more popular there than it is here. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just not a fan of the whole gold color. I remember when Lexus first came out, not to turn this in neutral again, they

⏹️ ▶️ John offered gold trim. I think this was a factory option. If it wasn’t, tons of people were getting aftermarket where

⏹️ ▶️ John instead of having silver chrome like the word Lexus all the little trim pieces the chrome

⏹️ ▶️ John around the windows the grill you could get them with gold and I always thought it looked so awful and tacky but it was

⏹️ ▶️ John everywhere and these watches look a lot like that but except for except for like said except for the red and gold one I think

⏹️ ▶️ John that looks really good like you know oh yeah it goes together I just you know with the other ones especially

⏹️ ▶️ John with the lack of a gold band it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite and I think we’re also going to see these like on celebrities on the red carpet you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re gonna we’re gonna see it even if they’re not theirs they’ll rent it for the day just like they do the rest of their jewelry and you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I mean like we’re gonna see these in places just we’re not gonna own them ourselves but you know there’s gonna be a lot of people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out there who do just not just not us

⏹️ ▶️ John and as for the investment part of it even though you said they’re gonna sell a lot of these in China in the grand scheme

⏹️ ▶️ John of things they’re going to sell a very small number of these compared to the number of other watches they sell

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah all I’m saying is they’re gonna is that among among the ones they do sell a large portion of those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be sold in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John China right

⏹️ ▶️ John but so So if you have an original Apple Watch Edition

⏹️ ▶️ John gold thing as an investment item long after it stops functioning

⏹️ ▶️ John it may be not saying that it’s going to gain in you know like Ferraris basically

⏹️ ▶️ John you buy them for a million dollars they lose value you keep them for 10 years and all of a sudden they’re worth twice what you paid for them because

⏹️ ▶️ John they make like you know well okay so they make like 500 a year but maybe the how many of the LaFerraris they’re making maybe 100

⏹️ ▶️ John or something. And they’re all sold or whatever, like, it doesn’t matter. Nobody can test them. Right? The

⏹️ ▶️ John small hook. But the point is, when people buy those, and they put mileage on like, oh, you’re depreciating your $1.2

⏹️ ▶️ John million car, just keep it for 20 years, that thing will be worth $2.5 million. Don’t drive it. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey if

⏹️ ▶️ John you if you want to make money with a Ferrari, buy the most expensive one they make, and preserve it for 20 years

⏹️ ▶️ John and sell it for twice what you buy. Look at McLaren f1. Right? You could have bought that for what was

⏹️ ▶️ John it 250 grand, you could sell them now for like what, a million and a half, two million, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John because there are a few of them. And so I think if, if you have more so than if you have the

⏹️ ▶️ John very first iPhone, if you have the very first Apple Watch edition, and you know, if they

⏹️ ▶️ John sell only a few 1000 of those, and you have one of those in 20 years, it will be worth more than you paid

⏹️ ▶️ John for it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and especially if it’s a one off that see this is this that was I was part of the logic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and going into my thinking that you know what if this was a one off what if there is no Apple Watch Edition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to next year you know like because it makes this one even more prestigious if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t keep making them or if they only if they only release a new one like every five years or something like that you know like if there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of limited availability like you know the release windows like the stupid Disney vault and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that’s like that stuff all plays into the exclusivity the high fashion angle here wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprise me at all. Anyway, you want to talk about the other ones, maybe?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, one quick note as well. One thing that I don’t think has been talked about too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much with regard to the addition is to go back to the Panerai

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and traditional watches. My understanding of these really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey expensive traditional watches is that the second hand market is extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey vibrant. And when you said Marco, you’re making an investment, or I’d hypothetically be making an investment.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I meant that you meant that in more ways than perhaps you realized in so far as you can trade these things

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like freaking stocks, if you so choose, in so far as you can buy and sell them. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know that my friend who was really into watches, he would go through watches constantly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He was like a freaking day trader of watches because he was constantly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buying new ones, selling the ones he has. And that’s a very, very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey vibrant market, which I don’t know how well that’s gonna work out for the edition. It doesn’t have to work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out for the edition, but that’s a piece of the more traditional watch market that Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey may not really be getting into. And I’m curious to see what the, a fallout has a negative connotation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to it, but what the fallout is from that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we talked about the tech angle on this. There’s just no way around it. Like it’s going to be eventually obsolete. The battery is

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna eventually die. Fine, you can replace the battery. Are they going to have a swap of the guts? Probably not.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, like all this stuff. And these are things, by the way, all of our questions that we’ve discussed at length about the upgradability

⏹️ ▶️ John and the pricing and how they’re going to sell in the store. Apple could

⏹️ ▶️ John not set minds at ease, but just like if Apple has decided, which I’m not sure they entirely have, but

⏹️ ▶️ John if they had decided, if they had just got out ahead of it and, you know, because they know

⏹️ ▶️ John all the questions people are asking, and either said, we are going to have an internals upgrade program, we are going to have a trade-in

⏹️ ▶️ John program, or we are not going to do that or whatever. Like leaving it unknown is,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a very Apple move, but it leaves uncertainty of people, you know, again, with the $10,000 market,

⏹️ ▶️ John some people are gonna have that concern. And the fact that there is no answer out there because people who buy 10,000 modules

⏹️ ▶️ John have some expectations, like you said, of either be able to resell it and buy another one or to give it to their kids

⏹️ ▶️ John or how long is it gonna last? And Apple’s current non-answer basically says, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t buy this hoping that it’s, You know it’s gonna become obsolete. We don’t even know, like, I think Apple has said they will

⏹️ ▶️ John replace the battery for you which is, they’ll replace the battery in all their things if you pay them money, so that’s fine. But other than the battery,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gonna be obsolete. And when that happens, are you gonna be sad that you can’t replace the

⏹️ ▶️ John internals on it? Because Apple’s not saying that you can, so don’t buy one thinking you can. They could change their mind at any time, but

⏹️ ▶️ John clearly Apple doesn’t think that it’s a deal breaker on this, that they can go to market with this with

⏹️ ▶️ John just leaving this as a completely, you know, we haven’t announced anything about replacing the inside of your watch, which is exactly what

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody predicted who knew Apple said, Apple is not going to come out there and tell you that you can upgrade the guts of this watch.

⏹️ ▶️ John That is a fantasy of people who, you know, because I know it’s technically possible and it would be cool. You should do it.

⏹️ ▶️ John They could still change their mind if it turns out that no one wants to buy these additions because they can’t upgrade them or you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, when they when they finally get obsolete, then that happens. But I think the watches will be kind of like iPads

⏹️ ▶️ John even more so that they’ll last a really long time. Like eventually, they’ll become obsolete. But

⏹️ ▶️ John what reason you know, they’re going to become obsolete because the protocols they talk to the iPhone with will

⏹️ ▶️ John will change in a way that’s not backward compatible, or the new watches will be able to do so much more

⏹️ ▶️ John that the whole class of really cool apps that you can run on your watch won’t run on your old one and you just feel bad and

⏹️ ▶️ John you’d be like, Oh, now I have to get a new watch because the cool video conferencing, whatever app won’t

⏹️ ▶️ John run on my original Apple Watch. Don’t forget the nose camera. Yeah, nose hair of cam. Right. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, that’s kind of the sad part when they showed like the security camera showing the the garage door opening in the keynote, it was like

⏹️ ▶️ John super low frame rate. That’s because the camera like you know, it’s one of those like not don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John one of those video surveillance cameras that needs takes a picture every second or two to save space right? It’s all blurry.

⏹️ ▶️ John If not as far as I can tell limitation of the watch may Marco could tell me better. Could you display 30

⏹️ ▶️ John frames per second video on the watch?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not probably not with the watch kit because you have to stream you have to like have the images on the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco extension and then they stream over Bluetooth over to the watch. Now, I haven’t used a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch yet, so I don’t know how fast that connection is in practice, but all the guidance on the SDK

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far is basically like, don’t expect images to transfer quickly.

⏹️ ▶️ John Assuming you could get, you know, a H.264 or H.265 in the

⏹️ ▶️ John future video on there, is there decoding hardware to play back? Is there

⏹️ ▶️ John a little H.264 decoder hardware on there? Can it play video? Like, that’s my other question. Ignoring the limitations

⏹️ ▶️ John like watch get whatever like if Apple wanted to show video on its thing Could it do that and

⏹️ ▶️ John I would guess yes, but I really don’t know like no one knows what’s in that s1 thing, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, how do they do the animated emojis? I’m being genuine like that is animated

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s like open that’s like open GL like I assume there’s there’s open GL stuff in there

⏹️ ▶️ John or open GL Yes, or whatever it is But that’s good is there the dedicated hardware to decode like whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John codec, you know H264 now like is that on the s1 chip if there’s not that’s another thing that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John gonna obsolete this original hardware because eventually there Will be because eventually we will be you know Nose time

⏹️ ▶️ John face no nose time yet nose hair face timing from our things not on this version But like you know

⏹️ ▶️ John inevitably it will come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I suspect that I suspect that’s all there already I mean it isn’t it isn’t exposed over watch kit to developers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I’m I would be very surprised if it wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John there

⏹️ ▶️ John like why would why would you make it? It seems like that probably the what the s1 is is

⏹️ ▶️ John a couple of generations old iPhone Thing redesigned and shrunken to

⏹️ ▶️ John be the s1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean like what what other people are saying it is it is basically an a5 performance level So it wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprise me at all if it actually is for the most part a5 cores Just with some modifications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and some die shrinks over time looks that the a5 already had a few of them already So you know that’s fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I I really don’t expect the CPU speed of the watch to matter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that much in the grand scheme of things like that’s why these are gonna have a slow upgrade cycle probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s not gonna be that big of a deal because for the most part you’re talking limitations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in battery and you know that’s that’s probably a how like a battery life is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna be the limiting factor here I think I don’t I don’t see them adding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tons and tons of hardware capabilities. I don’t see them adding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cameras and dedicated GPS and everything anytime soon, if ever. I mean, we don’t know yet, again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but.

⏹️ ▶️ John The native apps are gonna push this. We have to see what do people do with native apps? Because the current functionality, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John no reason for any more power. The current functionality they expose is plenty to do glances, plenty to do all this stuff, to transfer

⏹️ ▶️ John files, everything’s fine. As soon as they have a native app SDK, then it’s like, okay, where are the edges

⏹️ ▶️ John that apps are pushing against?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would surprise me if people had tons of apps on their watch. I mean, the watch might end up being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot like people’s today screens where you have like five or six apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on there that you use a lot but you don’t have 150 apps on your watch. We don’t know. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t… The big thing is we still don’t know all the big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco killer apps for this thing yet. We still don’t know like what are people going to do with the native watch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco SDK a year from now that we are not foreseeing yet, that Apple isn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even foreseeing yet, that’s going to be, oh my God, this is a great use of the watch, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not just like shovelware from the iPhone with a little watch remote view.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Look at what I’m doing. Not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. Like something that could only exist on the watch, that would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not be a very good iPhone app or would not be possible on the iPhone. We don’t know. That’s all future

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unknown stuff for the most part today. We really have no idea. And I think for the most part, Apple still has no idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we’ll see. For the most part, I would expect, you know, for upgrade cycle, I would expect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it to be like, you know, for nerds like us, it might be two to three years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for…

⏹️ ▶️ John Nerds like us who don’t buy the watch? Oh, you’re getting one, but I’m not. Casey, are you getting one? Of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco course

⏹️ ▶️ John he is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Eh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco sitting here now… Let’s see. Let’s see. Yes. Well, so, see, sitting here now…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco FastText! This is the killer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey app for FastText! Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes, yes. Unfortunately, it’s kind of built in. Yeah, exactly. So sitting here now, no, I am not getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one. But as I said on analog, that’s really just claim chowder for you guys and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Mike, because I suspect sometime over the next two to three months,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I will probably get one and not to totally repeat analog, but short short version of what I said there was, I felt

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the same way about or I feel the same way about the watch as I did about the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Whatever, it doesn’t really solve any problems that I have. I don’t really get it. Fast forward a couple of years and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now you can pry my iPad with retina and cellular out of my cold dead hands.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I will probably end up getting one knowing me because every time I’m like, meh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to one of your points, I think it was Mario, or maybe both of you said, uh, and if anytime I say meh, that really means yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just haven’t realized it yet. But um, I don’t know. I was sitting here now. I’m not so sure.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the other problem I’m having is the one I really want is the, you know, 10 or 1050

⏹️ ▶️ Casey $1,100 space black, space gray, whatever it is with the with the link band, which is I think what you guys said you wanted as well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nope,

⏹️ ▶️ John not me. Not in black, that one in the stainless steel. Okay,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey okay. So what would you get Marco? Or what are you getting?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still want to see them in person before I judge. Originally, originally, I wanted the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my goal with the bands was, because I’m going to be taking this on and off a lot. And I haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worn a watch since middle school. I know myself, I know I’m going to be annoyed at trying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to match the same fit every time I attached the band. And so I wanted something that released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco easily and had a fixed fit that I could set it to one to the right size and just leave it there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also am not crazy about the idea of a plastic band. Just it doesn’t make me feel good. Fluorelastomer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Excuse me. And Tim Cook pronounces that kind of the way underscore pronounces

⏹️ ▶️ Marco South Africa. Like there’s like a syllable missing in the middle there. Fluorestomer. Yeah. Do you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hear that when he

⏹️ ▶️ John says it? I think I think I black out for a moment when he says that word

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, so my goal was to get like a fixed fit quick release on and off and to me the only two that really do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That are the modern buckle and the link bracelet now I As as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve said in the past even though you don’t believe me. I don’t like to be flashy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And because I haven’t worn a watch in so long I fear that a metal watch band would be flashy on me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and maybe not I’ll have to see them in person I also was leaning towards the dark one before the event and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and since the event well all the new photos and everything the dark one looks really dark like way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco darker than the original pictures that were on the original site. I think it’s too dark anyway so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll have to see them in person but originally I was going modern buckle I was a little a little upset

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the colors were all feminine before and then they added the black one which is great but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s only 38 millimeter and I tried on the paper prototypes that Casey linked earlier. Thank you, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tried those on and the modern buckle, even in the largest size, just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco barely fits around my wrist. So I’m guessing it’s too small.

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple tries very hard not to call these men’s and women’s watches, which is admirable, but the

⏹️ ▶️ John way they size them and the fact that women on average have smaller wrists than men is basically like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you may not be calling them men’s and women’s, but by taking this, like the modern buckle that you like, which does

⏹️ ▶️ John look very feminine to me, but you know, You know, whatever you want, fine, right? But by making it too small, you’re basically

⏹️ ▶️ John dictating, like, we’re not going to say this is a women’s watch, but we’re going to make it so small, then even a small man is going

⏹️ ▶️ John to have a hard time getting this around his wrist. We’re just kind of like undercutting the whole sort of, we’re not making

⏹️ ▶️ John any judgments about gender by whatever watch you want.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, there are some exceptions. Like, the sport bands are the same. There’s the link bracelet, which is a pretty masculine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. I don’t think women’s watches tend to have big silver

⏹️ ▶️ John link bracelets, do they? I’ve seen them. They would just be skinnier. Yeah, they would just be skinnier. but they have the same type of

⏹️ ▶️ John thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think the Apple link bracelet is feminine really, but they do make that one in both sizes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for example. But anyway, so if you’re a man with smaller wrists, there are options for you, but the modern buckle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a little feminine. I know that, I see that. I still would be attracted to it for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quick release and size locking thing, but it’s just too small for me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, like I said, all the ones that have a series of holes, you always put it back in the same hole that you, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean? Yeah, but that’s annoying. So I think the one I want to try I’m not sure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would be confident to preorder it yet, but the one I’m most looking at now is the black

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leather loop and I know it doesn’t it doesn’t keep its size fixed, which is annoying. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco similar to the Milanese loop. I don’t I don’t press that wrong. I’m sorry, but it’s even it’s it has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the little like notches between each leather link, so it should be somewhat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lockable to certain sizes. I don’t know, but So that’s what I’m looking at, the black leather loop, because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again, reducing flashiness, so I’m a little scared about going to link bracelet. I also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think the link bracelet look is kind of too old for me. I don’t know. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s because I’m just not a watch guy, and I haven’t been yet. But I feel like I’m the wrong generation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to wear a metal link bracelet. Again, could be totally wrong. But I think I’d have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to buy a Mercedes also if I did that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have fashion hangups for the watch. The whole like I’m actually intrigued by the watch. And now that I have an iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the only reason I’m not getting one, it’s not even because it’s too expensive. The only reason I’m not getting one is because I just don’t wear a

⏹️ ▶️ John watch. Like that’s it’s the fact that this is a watch of any kind.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco There’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a thing that I strap my wrist and that’s not a habit that I do. And I don’t and I intentionally don’t wear a watch. Like I wore

⏹️ ▶️ John one, you know, like in middle school to try it out. And I didn’t like it. I didn’t like things on my wrist. And that’s the only

⏹️ ▶️ John thing stopping me from getting this. There’s many things making me want to get it. It’s like, look, even though you don’t wear a watch, you should try it. It might be cool. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John actually very interested in trying out the watch. And if I actually did buy one, I probably wouldn’t buy the one I

⏹️ ▶️ John just described just because the reason I hate things on my wrist is I’m just so sensitive to like, I mean, it would

⏹️ ▶️ John just get caught in my arm hair and it would be all pinchy and it would just like, I would want, I would probably

⏹️ ▶️ John wear the rubber one as Christy Turlington called it or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John think she called

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it rubber. She did. Yes, she called it the rubber one.

⏹️ ▶️ John Tim’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco no. Anyway. We rehearsed this. It’s for

⏹️ ▶️ John elastomer. Right? Like that I comfort would be that I need the sweatpants

⏹️ ▶️ John of Apple watches. Yeah, go go with the rest of my wardrobe, right? Like because that’s the thing stopping

⏹️ ▶️ John me from wearing this is just a comfort thing. But I think it might be cool to have a cool little screen thing. So I’m not going to sit like

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think I’m going to wait for the I watch six to get one of these or at least try one I may try it and regret it badly. And

⏹️ ▶️ John really this argues for me getting this cheapest Apple watch I possibly can just to see if can you wear a watch

⏹️ ▶️ John but I’m definitely intrigued by this device and would love to find out if it’s a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John that has any place in my life but yeah as a piece of sculpture I like

⏹️ ▶️ John the stainless steel one with the link bracelet but I it just seems like an arm hair trap

⏹️ ▶️ John I got a lot of arm hair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah well and the comfort angle is big to me too and that’s one of the reasons why I’m considering the leather loop because I suspect

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of all the steel bands that aren’t the sport band I bet that’s the most comfortable because there is no metal touching your skin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s just this just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John this nice leather. Leather

⏹️ ▶️ John gets smelly though.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t think about that. Well I don’t know I’m not that smelly.

⏹️ ▶️ John My wife replaces her watch band every whatever year or two and when she does it smells

⏹️ ▶️ John bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Interesting. Well 150 bucks for a new one it’s not that crazy. Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what I’m saying like her watch bands cost like whatever 20 bucks and it’s It’s just, yeah, leather

⏹️ ▶️ John soaks up stinks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hmm.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I guess we’ll find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out.