Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

89: DeLorean + McLaren

Casey’s new-parenthood, Tim Cook’s coming out, iMac minutia, FILM CRIT HULK, and discovering f/1.4.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hi, I’m disheveled. So how’s things? Good, good. I’m with the show notes. I don’t know what we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re talking about your kid.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, nobody wants to hear about that for more than a moment.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John Together. Dad, dad, daddy. Oh, so this

⏹️ ▶️ John is the reference for Casey to get trying to lead him in gently.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, that is back to the future. Boom. See? Right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John See, I’m a changed man, guys.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a gentle slope. You just get right up on that bicycle. Oh, God.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back to the future a lot, and I don’t remember that at all. Not as much as

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I am. Let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John see.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am 397 tweets behind, and I’ve declared bankruptcy like four or five times over the last three days.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I think you, this might be the turning point in your life for a number of things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not least of which will be that you may no longer be able to be a Twitter completionist.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’ve already been slowly embracing not being a Twitter completionist, but yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think that that is long gone now.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, I managed to do it. Two kids, just saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m actually not that sleepy, but I don’t know what day it is. I don’t know what time it is. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey barely remember who you two are, and I don’t remember if we talk about Apple or Microsoft on this podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you’re not that sleepy, then I don’t even know what time it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because it’s just, it’s been a blur. It’s been, I mean, and it’s a wonderful, awesome, I’m so thankful for it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blur, but a blur nevertheless.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep, only 18 more years. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve already started the countdown.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because you know, parenthood totally ends when they go to college. You definitely have to like worry about them or do their laundry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John or.

⏹️ ▶️ John Best case scenario, I’m saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, right. So best case scenario is, screw you, Dad. I hate you. I’m leaving,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and you can never talk to me again.

⏹️ ▶️ John No. It goes off to college on a scholarship. I see him on holidays, and then he goes off

⏹️ ▶️ John to get married and have kids and get a job and live the American dream with a white picket fence

⏹️ ▶️ John and blah, blah, blah. That’s how it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey works. So you say that, but consider that because we just had a baby,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron’s mom is downstairs pinch hitting for me so I can talk to you two knuckleheads,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which, Which by the way, in your two defense, neither of you were pressuring me to do this tonight. So I just want to make that plain.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyways, and then I’ve seen my parents and her dad probably four times in three days

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something like that. So yeah, it’s, you say that it ends after 18 years, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it doesn’t end after 18 years.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or the other alternative is your son becomes a very important general in the water

⏹️ ▶️ John wars that happen when he’s an adult.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is that your conspiracy theory of choice, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I’m just saying like it’ll be ecological disaster and it’ll be like Mad Max But instead of fighting over gasoline, it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be fighting over water because the earth will be destroyed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cool. Well, that sounds fun. I’m glad we brought him into the world for that

⏹️ ▶️ John So laundry’s looking pretty good now, isn’t it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Casey did you miss us? It’s obviously you must have Because this is this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wonderful conversation. This is of utmost importance Because this is definitely worth you having taken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco literally only two days and 30 minutes of paternity leave.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, the thing is, I don’t want this show to turn into a total shiteep, and I know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you do, and I know you’ll turn it into one if you don’t have me guiding you along. I mean, you’ll get through one item of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow-up, and that’s just no fun.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, yeah. I mean, the question came up on some podcast I did forever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago. I don’t know. Somebody asked, like, you know, if – this was before the show existed, when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John and were both still on 5x5 with our own shows, someone once suggested somewhere publicly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, should we, you know, should me and John team up and do a show together? And I believe my response at the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time was, it would never work. We would need some kind of third person to like help guide us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco along because the two of us would just talk forever and it would never end and it would be very, very boring. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are. Jared Indeed. Hi, everybody. Actually, I have that clip easily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey available because I heard it, Somebody called it to my attention forever ago. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saved it because I thought it was extremely prescient of you. It was Building Analyzed number 25.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think if you had both me and John Syracuse on the same show, if you weren’t there at all, it would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco terrible because we would both just ramble on forever because we’re definitely the commentator type. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and, and there’d be nobody to drive us right. Like, like you, you drive us really well and no, there, there wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be somebody there to do that. Uh, and, And if you were there, and there were both of us there, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think we both have so much to say that I think it wouldn’t work.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There would just be no room for the host because the guest would be talking so much about so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much stuff and not willing to yield the floor ever that the host wouldn’t have any time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get a word in and therefore it’d be almost like the host was absent. Oh man,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t even listen to those anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco critical of my own past work, Build and Analyze was the first time I ever did any kind of podcasting. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t have a show before that anywhere. So, I mean, as much as I am

⏹️ ▶️ Marco aware of my own flaws today, especially since I edit the show, so I re-hear my own flaws

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over and over again, the old ones are even worse in every possible way. Like, because I was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so new at it, a lot of my personal flaws were more audible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or more frequent than they are now. And I I know and most listeners probably don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice and don’t care but I notice and it’s it makes it very hard for me to listen to it plus I was just an idiot what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do you mean was right exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah yeah so shouldn’t one of us explain like what the what’s going on with Casey for the

⏹️ ▶️ John people who don’t follow us on Twitter John you are in charge of explaining

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things

⏹️ ▶️ John no Casey’s in charge of explaining it was Casey’s cue he doesn’t he didn’t lose his job

⏹️ ▶️ John his job is still the explaining things guy,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the explaining things. Right. So, so Aaron and I have finally, or really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Aaron has delivered our little baby boy. We had referred to him as sprout

⏹️ ▶️ Casey during his during her pregnancy because we didn’t have a name. Even after he was born, we didn’t have a name. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had narrowed it down to a couple. And, and we weren’t really sure which one we were going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use. And so he was due on the sixth of November. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recording this on Halloween because we’re nerds and don’t go out to parties, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We had him or she had him Wednesday morning at 5 30 in the morning. He was eight pounds, six

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ounces, 20 inches long. Uh, every nurse that came to visit us said, Ooh, he’s a big boy,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which was like Aaron’s thinking to herself, Oh, so what does that mean?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But, um, in any case, uh, his name is Declan James Liss. We are extraordinarily

⏹️ ▶️ Casey overjoyed to have him. And I cannot even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey begin to put into words how unbelievable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is to see this little thing that we created, especially after

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it took us so darn long to get him here. And we’ll put a link in the show notes to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey explain that. But suffice to say, it took us about three years to conceive. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to actually have Declan in your hands, it’s just the most amazing thing in the world.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He finally came out and I pretty much went fetal, not literally, but pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey close. And so the two of us were bawling. I’m sure this is the same for everyone,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but yeah, we were a wreck. We were an absolute wreck. But he is healthy. She is healthy.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re all adjusting. We got home from the hospital earlier today. And so because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m a masochist, I wanted to record and get this out of the way. So I’m not stressing about how I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey holding up the works. And we actually slept okay. The last couple of days, we had the,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh, hospital nursery take him during the night and then bring him in whenever he wanted food. So we didn’t have them

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give him a, uh, uh, formula or anything because we’re trying to breast breastfeed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so we slept reasonably well, ask me tomorrow morning how that works out now that we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at home. But life is excellent. Life is super good. I’m super, super thankful,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey super appreciative. I don’t know what to do. I’m freaking out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and mean that in the best possible way.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, so this is your first- you haven’t even had your first night home yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Correct. Oh, tonight’s the fir- oh boy. Mm-hmm. Well, congratulations,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first of all, before you encounter tonight, let’s keep this happy. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big congratulations, really.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thank you. be happy for you. I mean, happy for, I mean, even John, like, you know, the listeners might not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know how much John loves kids. This is true. This is not a lie. And like, you know, when John

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is presented with a child, he basically gets, like, giddy and is extremely awesome with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the kid and loves the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John kid. Let’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oversell

⏹️ ▶️ John it here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, that’s true. That’s absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John true.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like cute kids and kids that are nice. So, I’m not one of those people who just loves

⏹️ ▶️ John kids all the time. But once you have your own kids, the fear of children goes away. So you don’t feel like you’re going to like

⏹️ ▶️ John break them or or whatever. And then, you know, you just when you see anybody

⏹️ ▶️ John else’s kid, especially a kid of someone who you’re familiar with, you feel like you ought to be able to play with them just like they’re your

⏹️ ▶️ John kid. But you can’t. So that’s why every time I see a little Adam, which is Marco’s son, I want to pick him up and I do.

⏹️ ▶️ John And he cries and I get him back, which is terrible. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you just feel like in all fairness, he cries whenever anybody picks him up, including us.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, he’s not he’s not a picking up a kind of job. I do that all the time. you just want to pick them up and play with them. And

⏹️ ▶️ John especially when they’re little like that, especially now my kids are getting so big that it’s hard to carry them around, even

⏹️ ▶️ John though I still do. But you see those little, little pint sized kids like two or three, you just want to scoop them

⏹️ ▶️ John up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s seriously imagine like an 80 year old grandma,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey her reaction to a little baby. And that’s john’s. And I mean that complimentary in a complimentary

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way. I don’t mean that in a nasty way at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He is john is an 80 year old grandma noted.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So his eyes just get all super bright and shiny and it’s oh there’s a little baby oh my god

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah that I can verify that is not an exaggeration John will deny this but that’s that actually is how excited

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he is

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve same reaction to dogs to be fair

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh man so yeah so I don’t know what we’re talking about tonight I’m probably gonna start snoring even though I just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey told you I’m not tired just in general but

⏹️ ▶️ John have fun tomorrow his adrenaline will carry him for a couple of our days. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no, but I mean for us at least like the first night was a transition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certainly because you know it’s the first time where there is no one else to take the baby to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let you sleep. That’s Casey’s

⏹️ ▶️ John job. He takes the baby. Let his wife sleep.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well but Casey can’t feed the baby

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yet. I know

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s why his job is to take the baby so she can sleep.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well yeah okay but it depends on why the baby’s waking up. Right, exactly. So yeah I mean at this point you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is like Like, you know, Casey just needs to try to be as useful and supportive as possible, but he’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at this point you’re relegated to a few not very useful tasks because like you just you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like most of the time the baby wakes up it’s going to be to feed. There’s not much you can do yet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to help out, you know, except just be supportive.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you’re ahead of the game if the baby is waking up because that means the baby slept at some point.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s true. You know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John funny.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like Declan’s putting us or setting us up for the, well, relatively long troll actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey given that he’s two days old, it’s an extremely long troll. Cause we’re talking about 80% of his life,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but anyway, he’s actually been very sleepy for the most part. And so I’m getting used to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a baby that actually sleeps quite a bit. And we almost have to wake him up to feed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey him a lot of the time. And I bet you anything that that’s just like the,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I’m new and you worked so hard for me. and I’m gonna make you think I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nice, and then in the next day or two, perhaps tonight, I’m an asshole and I’m waking up all the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nah, very newborn babies sometimes are sleepier than you would expect, and then

⏹️ ▶️ John they sort of come to life in the next few days, right? But if you had a baby who was a really bad sleeper, you’d probably

⏹️ ▶️ John know it by now. Anyway, you’ll find out. You can talk to us all tomorrow. But so far,

⏹️ ▶️ John it sounds like everything is average. Everything is

⏹️ ▶️ John going the way it’s supposed to. I think you’re doing fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, next Wednesday night will come really soon. Like you will be surprised

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how like, you know, when we have to record our next episode, it’s going to just spring and you’re like, Oh my God, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco time for that already.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So, are you going

⏹️ ▶️ John back to work? Speaking of?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, actually, I was going to share that just because I figured we’d get questions. So my work

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gives me a week of paternity leave. And then I’ve saved up two weeks of vacation on top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of that. So what I think I’m going to do is without a shadow of a doubt, I’m taking off all next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I’m probably going to take off the week after, maybe,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe go back one day, but I doubt it. But the third week, I’m thinking I might actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stretch that and do, you know, maybe like a two or three day week that third week and then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two or three day week of work that is that third week and then take another couple days the following week and, you know, kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ease myself back into it. We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so you’ve got like you’ve got grandparents helping you out and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. So Aaron’s parents are both in Richmond and are super helpful. I mean, Aaron’s one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of five kids, so they’ve they’ve been around the block a couple of times. And my parents

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are retired, which is also super helpful because Aaron’s parents are not. And they live

⏹️ ▶️ Casey outside Charlottesville, about 45 minutes away. So the good news is during the weekdays, I can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey easily guilt my parents into coming down to help. and then on the evenings

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and weekends I can have Aaron’s parents help. And this is the first grandchild on both sides,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so he’s going to be spoiled as hell no matter what I do. Oh yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, did you, was it difficult to pick a name to try to avoid list puns?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. And so, actually, it’s funny you say that because the way we came upon the name was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was, my two siblings are Adam and Brady, then Casey, then

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blank, and then Aaron, because it’s ABC something E. And so we were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so daunted by how to pick a name that we needed some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really ridiculous yet useful way of narrowing it down. And so I eliminated – I think it was me, maybe it was both

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of us, but I eliminated 25 letters of the alphabet by saying, no, we’re going to start with D because ABCDE

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and that’s just kind of cutesy and I think it’s cool. So then it was, well, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the crap? Because you can’t use, I mean, Richard is in our name, but you couldn’t use Dick because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Dickless doesn’t work. And you couldn’t use a whole bunch of other names. And actually, one of the things I’ve been worried about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is I hope I didn’t set Declan up for a really awful second through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eighth grade stretch by Declan turning into Deck,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey turning into Dick. Now he’s ha-ha Dickless. We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s going to be seven other Declans in his class, so don’t worry about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I hope not. That’s actually one of the other names we were really considering, which I’m not going to share because I don’t want to have half

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the internet say to me, oh, you should use the other name. But one of the ones we considered, we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eliminated because it’s become super popular these days. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am not 100% convinced that Declan isn’t also applicable in that category, but we’ve…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty popular. Oh, damn it. Well, whatever. We’re committed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John now.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all right. I mean, they’re popular because other people name their kids that. It’s just The way it goes, not

⏹️ ▶️ John everyone can be named Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s true. And to be fair, having a really unusual name in school is not necessarily a social advantage,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco believe me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, there’s like three or four other Johns in my class. I mean, all the girls were named Jennifer. It works out fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John So my secret head canon, as they call it for Declan is DeLorean plus McLaren

⏹️ ▶️ John equals Declan. It’s a car theme.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s funny because my little brother-in-law who who thinks he’s like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the king of movie trivia and really isn’t. I’m actually much better at movie trivia than he is, so that should

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give you a rough estimate as to where he stands in this whole category. But anyway, he reminded

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me that Richard Gere’s character in the movie The Jackal was named Declan, which I had completely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forgotten about. That’s actually – my memory of the movie, although I haven’t seen it in 10, 15 years,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is that it was a pretty good movie all told. I think Jack Black was in it in like a semi-serious role, if memory

⏹️ ▶️ Casey serves. So yeah, it’s amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s the most amazing thing in the world. And it’s weird because I – you were kind of alluding to this, John. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey never liked carrying babies. I mean I think I picked Marco up – I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John picked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Adam

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John up. I picked Adam up. He’s very small.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You

⏹️ ▶️ John just cradle him in your arms. You just want to put him in a little pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. He’s so weensy. But anyway, I picked Adam up a couple of times I think. But every time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m like, oh my God, I’m going to drop him. Oh my God, I’m going to drop him. Oh my God, I’m going to drop him. when it’s your own kid, or at least

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my experience, all of that, it just goes away. And it’s just, this is what I have to do. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it sounds so cliche and silly, but it really is the way it was. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m so much more confident making decisions about him, not to say it’s all on me. Of course, Aaron’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really doing all the work, and I’m just taking credit for it. But figuring out, oh, is he got a poopy diaper?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is he sleepy? Whatever the case may be. It comes so much more naturally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey once you’re there. And I still can’t even really believe I’m a dad. That’s the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wild thing in the world.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I’m so happy for you to see you going through this, to see you enjoying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of this. So I’m just so happy for you and Aaron. And I think the entire internet is happy for you and Aaron.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I really appreciate it. And actually, the outpouring has been absolutely ridiculous. And I cannot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thank everyone enough. If you happen to listen to my other show, Analog, know that I’m trying to come to terms

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with not replying or favoriting everything under the sun, and so I haven’t done that, and I will continue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to not do that. But it’s been absolutely incredible, all the support, and I know I speak

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Aaron in saying I really appreciate it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ______

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think anybody who has any sense whatsoever, especially anybody who is a parent,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will totally understand if you don’t necessarily have time to respond to every single outpouring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco message of tweet and email right now, literally two days after you’ve had a baby.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’ve got two things going for you with this baby. The first one is,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve already forgot the list. I thought I was the sleep deprived one. I’m a little sleep

⏹️ ▶️ John deprived too. So since you tried so hard to have this baby, like as you had difficulty again, we’ll put the link in the

⏹️ ▶️ John show notes, you will just appreciate it more than people who didn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John a problem, right? And that appreciation will carry you through the hard times, like

⏹️ ▶️ John that’ll give you a little rocket boost for when it’s difficult, because you’ll always have that kind of in the back

⏹️ ▶️ John of your mind, but like how hard you worked for this and how much you wanted it or whatever, and I think that really will help.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think the same thing. And the second thing is like, now you are being indoctrinated

⏹️ ▶️ John into the secret club of people who know how difficult it is to be a parent, and you will now face

⏹️ ▶️ John a struggle that all of us face, which is do not lord it over other people because that’s obnoxious.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know. Actually, it’s funny you say that because a lot of our friends have already had kids. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so we always tried, Eric and I, to be very understanding when somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would have to cancel at the last minute or if somebody was really particular about, oh, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t do that because it’s nap time or because it’s within three hours of nap time or whatever. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I never understood it, but we tried to be understanding of it. And what I’m really curious to see is how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey often we play those cards now that they’re in our deck. You know, oh, well, we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just can’t do that because Declan’s going to nap sometime between now and three days from now. So no, we can’t. I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sometimes it’s a card and sometimes it’s the truth. And that’s the beauty of it is that the other person doesn’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Usually I think it’s the truth. You know, I mean, at least for us,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it is.

⏹️ ▶️ John Or the truth may be I haven’t showered in three days. Right. There’s no way I can leave the house.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No. you will know firsthand. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, if when somebody who doesn’t really know about, you know, how kids, how life with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kids works, they will be really surprised when you tell them that you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really can’t go and meet them for dinner, you know, a half hour away on a random

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weeknight, you know, out of the blue for fun. And it’s like, really? No, like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, you’ll see. see like the assumptions that people make before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their parents about the life of being a parent, if they even think about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, just by nature of it being such a huge change in life,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the assumptions people make about how it is usually are pretty far off.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re not choosing to like reject certain social events and not go out to certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things. You’re not rejecting that because you want to be uptight. You’re rejecting it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you actually would prefer doing things your normal way to going out, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the consequences of going out are worse. And it’s not worth it. If that makes any sense at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it’s funny, the things that that I made, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if I should say I made declarations about. But for example, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nursery in the house is, I don’t know, 10, 15 paces away

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from where our bedroom is. And Aaron and I kept saying to each other in the first,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, the first thing we would say is, well, you know, I think we’re going to keep them in the nursery from the get go so he doesn’t get too attached

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to some really, you know, get this idea that he’s always going to be next to us, blah, blah, blah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the next thing we would say leading up to tonight was, but we’ll see what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happens. And when we started talking briefly about what the sleeping arrangements were tonight.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The first thing I asked was, can we easily get the pack and play upstairs? The second thing I asked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was, well, actually, why don’t we just drop the Casper into Declan’s room and we can just leave it there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’re already all these promises we made to ourselves like, oh, we’re going to go out to dinner in the first month, like all pretty much all bets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are off already. And we’ve had them for two days.

⏹️ ▶️ John No plan survives contact with the baby.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s so true. But anyway, so yeah, thank you, everyone, you guys, especially, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everyone for being so supportive, for being so interested,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or at least feigning interest in a way that I don’t realize you’re full of it. So it’s been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a wild ride. It’s going to continue to be a wild ride. I’m sure you guys will periodically ask, for no other

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason than to laugh about what we’re going through. And then I will get hopefully

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some amount of pleasure into hearing you tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the stories of Arm and Baby No. 2, which come to think of it, I don’t think we talked about. So congratulations

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to you as well. Thank

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you. Thank you. Yeah, that’s happening in the spring. But this is tonight’s about you. We’ll leave that for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey later.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, tonight is about other things, too. So we should probably do the follow up.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. It’s also, though, about Hover for this next two minutes or so. Hover

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the best way to buy managed domain names.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hover is a domain registrar that doesn’t suck, basically. That’s my slogan, not theirs, but I think they should really take it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When you’re looking for a name for your project, or you want a name for yourself,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or for funny purposes, generally speaking, you go to domain America store,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you search for what you need, you browse the list, you find something, anything that is available, which is increasingly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difficult unless you go to one of the crazy new TLDs. And then you go through some kind of horrible shopping cart where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you got to say no to a bunch of add on services and you got to uncheck

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the box that says, please spam me and check the box that says, please don’t spam me and try to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly their wording there and everything and then you know uncheck a bunch of recurring annual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco subscriptions to things that sound really vague that no one should say no to like I would like the freedom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco package please oh that’s $75 a year but what does that do like it all this crazy stuff that so many record stores do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hover entered this market to basically be the opposite of that so hover is run by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who like other people who don’t want to hurt them and annoy them. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s just run by good people. It is a domain registrar that respects people. So if you go to check out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you go to Hover, it’s a nicely designed site, you search for what you want, the search is extremely good. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fast, it searches all the crazy TLDs. And it shows you everything available. It does like some like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco language parsing a bit so that if you don’t have quite if they don’t have quite what you want, it can kind of show like alternate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wordings or slight variations that might that might be might be available. You go to buy something and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you check out and you’re done. There is no crazy add on step. There’s no crazy upselling.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s no crazy cross promotional crap. You just buy the name, you pay for it easily, and you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. And then they do offer some add on services that are paid, things like email hosting and stuff like that. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the most part, they give you a lot for free. I think every domain comes with free domain privacy,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all sorts of DNS tools and everything, everything you need. They also have a really good valet transfer service,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where you can transfer names. If want to transfer names from another registrar to Hover,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want, you can have them do it for you. You give them the login to your old registrar and they will do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the transfers for you for any number of domains. If you have a hundred domains, they’ll still do it for you. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really great. And it’s no additional charge for that service. If you need support, they have, you know, of course,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the usual online support, but they also have phone support during business hours. You can just call them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they have a no hold, no wait, no transfer phone policy. So you call them up and a human

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being answers the phone and that human being is able to help you. I really can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recommend them enough. Their prices are also really good. They just lowered prices on a bunch of stuff but they were already good even before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. Anyway, go to, H-O-V-E-R for anybody who doesn’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how to pronounce this word like the British. Go to and enter offer code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco congratulations Casey to get 10% off your first order. Once again, to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or depending on how you pronounce it and enter promo code congratulations Casey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all one word. I know it’s very long but anyway that’s it. Congratulations Casey. Thanks a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Hover for sponsoring the show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So a quick story related to Hover. I know that that was a little bit of a read but I think this is worth sharing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey When I told Marco and John that Declan was born all was well you know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we exchanged a few messages about that and then I believe it was Marco said to me, all right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here’s what you need to do. You need to buy and you need to get the DeclanList

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Twitter handle immediately before anyone else does. And so I’m sitting in the hospital on the hospital Wi-Fi doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey exactly that. And Marco, would you like to guess where I registered

⏹️ ▶️ Casey GoDaddy? No, it was at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hover. Oh, wait, was it Hover or was it Hover?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, it was Hover. I’m just being

⏹️ ▶️ John silly. You’re infecting Casey with your inability to pronounce that the British way.

⏹️ ▶️ John He’s imitating you instead of trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s true. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, Marco, speaking of things that you’re either

⏹️ ▶️ Casey creating or buying, what’s the story with your iMac, Retina, 5K, whatever, whatever?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The business rep ordering system is apparently not that reliable. So, I have between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco zero and three of them arriving. I’ve only gotten ship notices for two, which is the correct number that we ordered.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we will see how many arrive. I’ve been charged for three, but I think I’m going to get refunded

⏹️ ▶️ Marco automatically. It’s a weird situation. Anyway, they’re on a boat or a plane or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John probably a plane.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think a boat might be too slow. So yeah, I’m pretty sure they’re on a plane between Japan and Alaska right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We got to drop in a clip of the Lonely Island song, which you don’t even know what that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is. In fact, I’d be surprised if John knows what that is. Nope. Adam Sandberg thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Good job, John. I’m proud of you. I’m on the phone. Could

⏹️ ▶️ John you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I was going to add. You already jumped into the follow up because I was I was all ready to segue from baby talk

⏹️ ▶️ John to the first item in the actual follow up here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, what was the first? Did I skip one?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So in the same way that Casey has bonded to his child, it turns out that the glass

⏹️ ▶️ John and I mean, I’m back. OK, is laminated. And what is this? This is fall

⏹️ ▶️ John from a different podcast. I was on a talk show recently.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m pretty sure I said this on a talk show.

⏹️ ▶️ John Gruber and I were talking on the talk show about the iMac screen and talking about how it wasn’t laminated.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it totally is. I was thinking of the Thunderbolt display, which is the same size, but in typical Apple fashion,

⏹️ ▶️ John they updated the iMacs to have the nice laminated screen, but did not update the Thunderbolt displays,

⏹️ ▶️ John at least not the one I have anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, you’re right. And that also is not that recent. They updated the iMacs to have the the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laminated and lower glare screens like two years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I’m at 5k. The screen is laminated. There

⏹️ ▶️ John you go. Is that shows don’t have follow up. We have to do it here. We’re gonna die.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, for what it’s worth that episode with you and john Gruber is really, really good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really enjoy the talk show always. But, um, but some of the guests are just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey always without question just amazing and having the two johns together. Always

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a good time. Always worth the listen, even though you guys ramble on even longer than we do sometimes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m also I listen to every episode of the talk show and I got to say, John,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your episodes I think are consistently my best my favorites. Your best.

⏹️ ▶️ John We just need to get some you just need to get like smart speed for Gruber though because then the shows will be shorter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In fact, the one you did with Gruber a long time ago, that was one of my one of my like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco top three test files like when I was making when I was making smart speed. was what played

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the time. It was the one where you open up saying, you know what I had to do to get here? That’s a good imitation of my voice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Yeah, thanks.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know what I had to do to get this to happen?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What do you have to do?

⏹️ ▶️ John Reboot into my super duper clone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my god. All right. So we also got a lot of feedback, myself especially, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we all got it, about the AT&T Unlimited plan, because I believe it was on this show that I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talked about how I still have the grandfathered AT&T Unlimited plan.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t remember if you guys had said, oh, that’s crazy, or if the chat room had said, oh, that’s crazy, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somebody did. And look who’s smart now, because as it turns out,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the FCC has said, you know what, AT&T, if you’re going to make it unlimited and then severely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey throttle after three or five gigs of data, I don’t remember what it is, well, screw you, we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to sue you. And gosh only knows if anything will come of it. not, but I do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for this small stretch of time until this lawsuit is concluded, I get to feel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey smug about it. So that’s really exciting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And I think ultimately, like the most likely outcome of this is either nothing will change, or they will just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco end those plans. Probably. Like there’s nothing like they are not obligated to keep offering that plan every month.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like they’re doing it, you know, they chose to grandfather people in and let them continue indefinitely.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Presumably, because they figured it would do less harm that way to their reputation and to their customer relationships.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if it comes down to offering real, unthrottled, unlimited, like Backblaze,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is our second sponsor. But anyway, when it comes down to real, unthrottled, unlimited speeds, they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not going to offer that. They’ll just end these plans.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. But like I said, for a brief moment in time, I can feel smug. So, John, tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us about ECC RAM, please.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I mentioned that when we were talking about whether I would want an iMac and how I I still feel better about having

⏹️ ▶️ John server class components, and in particular, ECC RAM, because we have just so much RAM these days, and

⏹️ ▶️ John the error rates of RAM have not decreased at the same rate that capacity

⏹️ ▶️ John has increased. And so the more RAM you get, the more likely you’re going to have these one bit errors, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what the error correcting memory helps improve that reliability. And I was like, well, maybe it’s just all in my head,

⏹️ ▶️ John that I think I’m getting fewer. And Margot had said the same thing, getting fewer kernel panics because

⏹️ ▶️ John ECC memory is helping or whatever, who knows? But a couple of people sent me this blog

⏹️ ▶️ John post. I think I got this link from Scott Ziegler originally. It’s James Hamilton’s blog, and he

⏹️ ▶️ John works, I think, in the data centers for Amazon. So kind of like those Google people, all those

⏹️ ▶️ John people who have fleets of hardware, or like, for example, Backblaze giving hard drive reliability numbers. You can

⏹️ ▶️ John get some good data if you just have a tremendous amount of hardware, and then you just start tracking everything

⏹️ ▶️ John and showing the stats on it. And so I’ll put the link in the show so people can read it and decide.

⏹️ ▶️ John The numbers are still small. Like, how many errors do you get in RAM? How much data

⏹️ ▶️ John do you have to shove in and out of RAM before you get any errors? But even one error bothers me.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so ECC RAM is not that expensive. The main problem

⏹️ ▶️ John is that Intel, I think, still only puts controllers and everything for it in their sort of more expensive chipsets.

⏹️ ▶️ John But inherently, there’s nothing about it that makes it so that it wouldn’t be economically

⏹️ ▶️ John feasible to put in cheaper stuff if Intel just didn’t, you know, sort of segment their line according

⏹️ ▶️ John to this quote unquote enterprise future. But anyway, I thought it was interesting. It makes me feel

⏹️ ▶️ John slightly more justified in my still probably irrational and unfounded

⏹️ ▶️ John belief that ECC RAM is something that I need in my life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, ECC RAM, like, you know, if, like, I’ve said this before, like, I have always kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of felt Mac Pros were more reliable than the other Macs. I have never owned an iMac. Tiff did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a while, so we had one in our house, but I’ve never actually owned an iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and used it full-time myself. But I have had a lot of laptops, a lot of the Apple laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they always just kind of feel like, you know, there’s always like occasional

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kernel panics or occasional, you know, failures to wake from sleep and everything. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac Pros, I’ve never seen that kind of problem before. I’m not saying I’ve never had a kernel panic, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve been much more rare, you know, on the order of like maybe,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe zero to one a year, whereas in the laptops, it was more like, you know, one to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three years. Like, you know, we’re not talking big numbers here, but it’s enough that it matters, you know, if you’re doing something really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco important, or if they, if they cause you to lose data. But all that being said, like, I don’t know, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I haven’t had a non Mac Pro Apple desktop before. I don’t know how much of that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is just because they’re laptops. Like, you know, like the power management stuff that, you know, transitioning it to and from sleep

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything like that’s something that a laptop has to go through much more than a desktop. And there’s, you know, there’s different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thermal boundaries and there are different thermal limits and stuff like that in a laptop and, and different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco component tolerances and a lot of things. And granted, you know, the all of Apple’s desktops, except

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Mac Pro use a lot of laptop components like the Mac Mini and the iMac. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both full of laptop components, the low ends of each of those, the 1.4 gigahertz crappy models are just MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Airs really. And so it is a lot of the same components now, you know, between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptops and desktops. So I don’t know, you know, I guess, you know, ask me in a year,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, like how much of a problem this ends up being. I’m guessing it’s going to be probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not enough to, to change which one you’re using just for that reason.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s so hard to pinpoint the cause of those things, though, because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it

⏹️ ▶️ John could be software, be you know like that that’s what this article isolate but

⏹️ ▶️ John it gives people an idea of like well what could be a tributal DCC RAM like just give like a little summary of it

⏹️ ▶️ John in this big measure measure of all these machines it said about a third of their machines had at

⏹️ ▶️ John least one correctable RAM error per year so

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not they’re not big numbers right you’re not really it’s not the difference between constantly crashing and all like

⏹️ ▶️ John most i imagine most of the problems i actually have with laptops and other things have to do with software bugs

⏹️ ▶️ John can like I mean and components that are you know

⏹️ ▶️ John put under more stress because they have a there’s there’s more heat involved and there’s just more stuff in there and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know in the past like when you’d get a desktop map it wouldn’t even have a wi-fi for example but these all have wi-fi

⏹️ ▶️ John and bluetooth and everything and you know my mac pro does not so oh it has bluetooth thanks but anyway

⏹️ ▶️ John uh it’s so hard to know what to attribute these errors to but I know that my Mac Pro has been reliable. And that’s why

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sort of got this voodoo about I would like something in a similar class. Going

⏹️ ▶️ John forward, it would just make me feel better.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Marco, are you planning on getting rid of your trash can if the 5k

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or all three of your five k’s ever show up? What’s the intention there?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m gonna sell it. I mean, it would be really stupid not to I mean it would you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I have no use for a for like a big expensive desktop Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m not using like I’ve been thinking about maybe getting a Mac Mini for like a backup server kind of needs but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and by the way I every time I try to configure I’ve tried to price out a Mac Mini in Apple store it always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just makes me angry because it’s like here’s this computer it’s $500 but only if you get a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco terrible one and like it’s if you get a Mac Mini worth owning it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco $5,000 and it’s like oh well at this point should I be looking at a MacBook Air you know it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so nicely designed to push you up the line and and the new the new Mac minis

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have even less upgradable than the previous ones like you know you can no longer upgrade the RAM it’s now soldered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco onto the board and the the discs are very hard to get to and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can’t like you can’t get an SSD with the low-end CPU you have to go to the high-end CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s it’s just there’s so many little restrictions in place to make sure that if If you get a Mac Mini for less than $900,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s going to be a total piece of crap. That aside, this Mac Pro is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still worth a few thousand dollars at least, and so it would be stupid of me to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep this around for file serving tasks. I’d be better off selling it and taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a third of the money and buying a Mac Mini with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, are you going to keep it around for a month or two to see how you feel about the 5K, or are you going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey immediately unload it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it has 14 days to win me back. Fair enough. You know, if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I if for some reason the 5k is horrible and I return it, then I will go back to it. But I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco based on the reviews, I mean, everyone getting these 5k seems to be loving them. Like I have not found

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of complaints about them. I was a little worried about heat and fan noise. And from what I can gather,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what everyone’s saying is that you can hear the fan if you’re like playing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 3d game with Sean that might be relevant to you actually but if you if you’re just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing other things even if you’re stressed even if you’re stressing the CPU like if you’re running handbrake as long as you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not stressing the CPU and the GPU everyone’s basically saying it’s it’s effectively inaudible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’ll see when it gets here

⏹️ ▶️ John did you hear the audio file that someone sent us of their Mac Pro fan or iMac fan right

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco no

⏹️ ▶️ John someone someone played portal basically on their iMac and recorded the sound of the fan and

⏹️ ▶️ John of course You can’t tell from recording how loud it really is, because it really depends on how close the mic was and so on and so forth. But you can kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of get a feel for the quality of the sound. And it sounds not surprisingly very similar to

⏹️ ▶️ John what it sounds like when you really crank up the fans on a laptop. You know what I mean? Because the sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a thin package and there’s small openings, right? It’s got that kind of I couldn’t tell if it was like the

⏹️ ▶️ John asymmetrical fan, kind of like a fuzzy hiss instead of like the the wine

⏹️ ▶️ John that you’d get from from a small symmetrical fan. Because there’s pretty big fans in there. so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well there’s just one fan it’s it’s in the back behind the stand it’s really it’s big right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is it’s big but it’s not nearly as big as like the Mac Pro so I mean there’s not enough room for a fan that big I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been looking around it and to see if anybody has any any information on this fan like I was looking around before I ordered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I fix it shows you what it looks like but no one seems to say it has a symmetrical blades

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t find that information on Apple side anywhere else so I’m pretty sure it

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t the big difference between the Mac Pro fan and that fan is the same reason you know

⏹️ ▶️ John you can get extra 10 horsepower by changing your intake manifold

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey nice

⏹️ ▶️ John much better airflow through the Mac Pro than you do trying to break bring air in through the little

⏹️ ▶️ John slits or whatever at the bottom of that iMac and then shove it through a bunch of tubes or whatever so the Mac Pro is all nice

⏹️ ▶️ John and opened up plenty of plenty of power this is does not this

⏹️ ▶️ John analogy does not work anymore but you know what I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no I mean like I mean literally I have never hurt my Mac Pro fan ever, like no matter what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do with this thing. And granted, I don’t play 3D games. So I don’t think I’ve ever stressed the GPUs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the CPUs at the same time. But I’ve like doing just pure CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maxing out. I’ve never ever heard the fan on this Mac Pro. And I don’t I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expect the Mac to match that that level of awesomeness. But as long as it’s close, I’ll be very happy with it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And everyone’s basically saying it’s totally worth it because the screen is amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I saw one. I went to the Apple store to check one out and remember that I don’t have any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey retina Macs in the house and I gotta tell you that screen is beautiful. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is absolutely the screen I would want in a mythical revised on the thunderbolt display, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as we’ve talked about many times in the past isn’t going to happen for a long time, but I’m personally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not a desktop kind of guy. And so as much as I think that screen is beautiful Apple,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not going to be buying an iMac anytime soon, but it is pretty.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was actually about 100 feet from an Apple store yesterday and didn’t go in because I didn’t want like I want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mine to be the first one I see. I know that’s stupid,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey but like I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know it’s already coming like it’s like it might as well wait until I think it’s supposed to get here on Monday or Tuesday like might as well wait until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then you know so yeah but and I realized too like you know as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was talking to our friend underscore David Smith and I talked to him and reading a few other people’s reviews

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the great things about a retina screen for iOS developers is that you can run the retina simulators at regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sizes. When you have a non-retina screen, you know, for those of you who don’t know, the retina

⏹️ ▶️ Marco simulators run by default at 1x of their actual pixels. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a retina iPad doesn’t even fit on your monitor most of the time, especially if you’re using a laptop. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even the retina iPhone 6 Plus doesn’t fit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on anything either because it’s so freaking big. It’s three extra pixels. And on a retina screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it runs, you know, these things all run like at their retina sizes, like at their like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco native point sizes. So they’re, they’re smaller. And you can, there’s like, you can hit like command two and three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to artificially shrink them if you need to on a regular screen, but the performance is terrible. It doesn’t look good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like just even just doing iOS development, there’s a very, very good reason to have retina screens because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just, it just makes it so much easier to to see what you need on screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way it will actually look on a device.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, I saw a screenshot that underscore David Smith, he probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sent me sent you the same one of him running the iPad simulator, I think in landscape, and having

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Xcode adjacent to it all on the same screen, not using like spaces or anything like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And there was still plenty of room left over. And I’ve done enough iOS development to to know that’s a big damn deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I I’m excited for you as much as it makes me grumble that you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you shat canned the trash can so quickly. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco believe me, it that makes me grumble just as much. I mean, it does not. It does not please me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I spent a lot of money on this computer that I thought I was going to have for a while, expecting that I’d be able to get desktop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco retina the way I wanted with it, to find out something way, way better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco came out like nine months later. Like that. I mean, that’s the I guess 10

⏹️ ▶️ Marco months later. That is not a great feeling. But it is a great feeling that the one I got

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the Mac Pro I got, the resale value will probably cover the IMAX

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cost, at least most of the way. We’ll see, though. God, that’s impressive.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, we have a little bit more follow up. But before we get to that, since I think it may take a minute,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why don’t you tell us about something else that’s really cool?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are also sponsored this week by our unthrottled and unlimited friends, Backblaze.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP. Backblaze is unlimited, unthrottled online backup.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They also love to say it’s uncomplicated and native and they have all these un-words except

⏹️ ▶️ Marco native. It is very, very good online backup. I use them myself. It’s always there. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco always backing this up for you. Your data is always secure. There’s an entire class of problems that this protects

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you from. Basically, anything that can happen physically to your house.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If somebody could walk in and steal your computer and the drive next to it, that’s your backup drive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you could have a fire, you could have a flood, you can have electrical surges and all sorts of weird issues like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If your data only exists in your house or in your office, that’s not really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good enough if it’s really that important to you. You got to have an an offsite backup. And there’s also because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s online, they can offer you advantages like they have an app for iPhone, iPad, and Android, where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can access your files that you’ve backed up on Backblaze wherever you are. You can log into their website.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like what I sometimes do, if I want to get a file that’s on my home desktop, and I’m traveling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with my laptop, I can log into the site and pull that file right off the site. All of this is just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five bucks a month. It is so good. I mean, I use it, my wife uses it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I up my mom with it. When I was when I was there last time, I just installed on her computer. And so now I know my mom’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all backed up and I don’t have to worry about it. Of course, she doesn’t have to worry about it. It’s so great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t recommend backblaze enough. Go to slash ATP. You get great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unlimited unthrottled online backup, really unlimited disk space that is really impressive. Unlimited online

⏹️ ▶️ Marco backup five bucks a month. Anyway, thanks a lot to backblaze for sponsoring once again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, and we have a really good story about Backblaze. Hi guys,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about eight months ago, following a sponsor read on your show, I signed one of my servers onto Backblaze

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using your coupon code. Previously, it had been using an alternative offsite solution that had experienced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some silent data loss. Two months ago, our contracted engineers managed to accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey delete all of the data from our RAID set. Our local backups of our most active projects

⏹️ ▶️ Casey were good, and we had a backup of our email store from the previous evening, but our local copy of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey our support files and archives and financial data was found wanting. We are architects,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and by law, we have to keep everything we do for seven years, and Backblaze saved our business. If it wasn’t for the fact that we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could get everything back from Backblaze’s service,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey downloads or drives in the mail or whatever, then I honestly believe that we would have had to shut

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the doors and 30 people would be looking for new jobs. Thank you to them and thank you to you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guys. So yeah, that’s honest to goodness, hand on heart, that is pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much verbatim an email we got. So like Marco had said, get back please,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get some sort of online backup, it can save your bacon.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ISKRA Yeah. And if nobody’s told you yet, RAID and RAID like systems like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like Drobos and NASA and things like that, that is not its own backup. That you know, like those things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco serve to reduce downtime. And in the case of like Drobo and Synology’s hybrid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco RAID and stuff like that, it’s you know, things like I want to expand this drive volume without, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, erasing everything, you know, so you can get convenience from RAID. But RAID is not a backup.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what RAID stands for. RAID stands for RAID is not a backup. That’s why it’s spelled R-A-I-D.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. Just don’t ask a geek what the I is for.

⏹️ ▶️ John Every year, everyone’s going to email us about the different definitions of what the I is for. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. So a couple of other things that we should hit in follow-up. There’s a couple of quick ones and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one not so quick. First, I’ve tried Apple Pay. It is magical. I have used

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it twice. Both times were at McDonald’s. I don’t care if you think that’s gross because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I like McDonald’s. The first time was for breakfast and it was just as socially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey awkward as I expected it to be because I had told the clerk, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how do I go about using the phone pay thing? Because I didn’t want to say, how do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I use Apple Pay? Because I figured that they would be like, what? So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I made it worse by using hand-wavy generalisms. but eventually I realized

⏹️ ▶️ Casey near field communication isn’t just near field communication. It’s like stick your darn phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on top of the reader communication. And once I got the phone a lot closer, it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey prompted me to pay and it worked no problem. And then last night I used it again in order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get a chocolate milkshake for Aaron when I was returning from home to the hospital. But it is pretty awesome

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I’m really stoked to use it in pretty much any store I could possibly use it in.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And another quick one, someone shallen men on Twitter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let me see if I can find their actual name. M night.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nicely done. It’s Magnus apparently. Well, anyways, he had told

⏹️ ▶️ Casey us that there is perhaps a way to do upgrade pricing, or bundles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to use bundles to do upgrade pricing in the App Store. I don’t know if I don’t know if you guys have

⏹️ ▶️ John any thoughts on that. We talked about that, like that, you know, someone broached that idea and we talked about how terrible it

⏹️ ▶️ John would be because it’s not, it’s like, yeah, you can kind of get upgrade pricing that way, but trying to explain it

⏹️ ▶️ John to people, it’s like, I know you just want to get a cheaper way to get the next version of this program, but what

⏹️ ▶️ John you really have to do is buy this bundle. It looks like it has two programs, but you will subtract the amount

⏹️ ▶️ John that you paid for the other one, which is not the same as the amount that it’s currently for sale for in the store.

⏹️ ▶️ John And like, it’s all this convoluted system. And you know, Marco in particular thought

⏹️ ▶️ John it was a bad idea. I also agreed. But the bottom line is we thought someone would try to do it if Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t stop them. And this is, I think, a screenshot from a German app store. But anyway, apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John someone has tried to do it, is doing it. And Apple hasn’t stopped them yet. And I’m sure people are very confused by

⏹️ ▶️ John it, because all they want is one program, and they have to buy a bundle with two, and hope they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John getting the right things. And it’s kind of a mess.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And as Kyle Cronin points out in the chat, you have to still be selling the old program the store, like the old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version has to still be there, which means that you’ll have people buying the old version, thinking it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new version. And then it, there are so many, so many problems in practice with this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco arrangement and trying to hack upgrade pricing into this. This system was clearly not made to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. And the more you try to wedge upgrade pricing into that system, the more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s just going to hurt your support costs, your reviews, your relationship with your customers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s worth looking at our friends Supertop bought Unread from Jared Sinclair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they just this past week or the week before they just released their new update

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s a separate app. They had to do that for various reasons and they have a fantastic monetization

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plan where you know it’s a free download and you get you know like I don’t know 50 articles to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco read and trial mode something like that. So there’s some trial limits to it And then you got to pay. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so they do upgrade pricing within that purchase. And it just sees if you have the old version installed. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not like, you know, as secure, you know, I’m sure you could fake it pretty easily or hack your way around it. But who cares? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not worth worrying too much about. It’s so obvious that Apple really wants

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people to just make the apps free up front and figure out your monetization some other way. Like that’s…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Use it for that purpose. It’s so much better for so many use cases. It’s so much better for customers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It sucks when an app is paid up front and then you download it and it sucks. That’s one of the reasons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why that generates a lot of customer hostility. It generates people… It makes people lose faith

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the App Store. It makes a lot of one-star reviews. Not to say that free

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps don’t have that. But if you can avoid making your app paid up front, you should. And Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never going to make it easy for you to have upgrade pricing or automatic free trials

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything like that, like, they’re never going to make that easy. The way forward is free app with some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of trial mode or limitations in app purchase to upgrade it. And any other system is just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be a world of pain for you and your customers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, the the unread thing was very cool. I mean, it was a little goofy in that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you could tell there was probably like you said, a URL scheme and it probably it bounced back and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forth between the apps a couple once or twice, but The fact that they pulled it off and the well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that super top is the one that did it or one of the ones that did it isn’t surprising. But the fact that they pulled it off was very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey impressive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The fact that Apple approved it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was impressive. Yeah, that too. But it was very cool. And I’m I certainly appreciated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it as an unread user. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, even ignoring the using bundles as upgrade pricing, just bundles by themselves, like doing

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing they’re supposed to do. Like, you know, I would like these other applications,

⏹️ ▶️ John ones, but I already have one of them. Can I get a discount by buying them in a group but then

⏹️ ▶️ John have the you know the my purchase of that other one subtracted from and so on so forth and panic

⏹️ ▶️ John is has a bundle out now I don’t know if they have more than one panic software makers of transmit

⏹️ ▶️ John and many other fine products and they had like a faq or something trying to explain and I saw them supporting

⏹️ ▶️ John people over Twitter and I think this is right I’m not going again no research and I’m not going off any notes or whatever just going

⏹️ ▶️ John by memory but I’m pretty sure that like people were confused because they would have purchased

⏹️ ▶️ John one program and they would go buy a bundle with two programs in it and it would be more expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John the bundle would be more expensive than if they had just bought the second program themselves and they would be confused like isn’t the whole idea

⏹️ ▶️ John of the bundle that hey it has two programs I already bought one of them so I can get the second one for less and it’s like actually

⏹️ ▶️ John more expensive to buy the bundle and the reason I think if I’m remembering this correctly is that the bundle

⏹️ ▶️ John subtracts the price that you paid for the application, not the price of the other applications.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you bought the other application when it was like on sale for 99 cents for a 24 hour sale or something, it will only

⏹️ ▶️ John subtract 99 cents from the bundle. So you could so you could end up essentially

⏹️ ▶️ John finding a really expensive way to buy that second app. If you just bought the second app by itself, maybe it’s two bucks.

⏹️ ▶️ John But because you’re only getting 99 cents subtracted from the bundle and the bundle price was like, you know, $6 or something, you could have

⏹️ ▶️ John paying more than two bucks for the second app by buying the bundle, which is also not a good experience

⏹️ ▶️ John and weird. And I don’t know if that’s like, it’s certainly not obvious. And it’s basically a support cost

⏹️ ▶️ John or like angry, again, angry customers who you can’t get in contact with leaving bad comments on your bundle

⏹️ ▶️ John saying this bundle is a rip off. It’s cheaper for me to buy the other app separately. Don’t do this. It’s a scam. And you can’t respond

⏹️ ▶️ John to that person. And it’s just, it’s just terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, we’re running out of things to complain about that Apple has done in terms of app store

⏹️ ▶️ Casey policies. not this. So I wanted to quickly mention as well

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that we talked last episode about a tweet that Michael Jurowicz had written that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very, very conveniently and succinctly summarized what is required

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the different kinds of continuity in iOS 8 and Yosemite. And listener Jared

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sent a tweet that we will put in the show notes that has two links to Apple KBase

⏹️ ▶️ Casey articles that explain what is required for each of the different kinds of continuity. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ll put those in the show notes. John, how did you how would you like to eliminate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey support for certain kinds of devices in an iOS app?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, Marco was asked Marco on a previous show, if there was a way to

⏹️ ▶️ John sell an app, but exclude devices with the A5 system on a chip, because

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re slower. And so you want to like sell, sell something, you know, is not going to run on those. And like, basically how

⏹️ ▶️ John the A5 devices are dragging down app development because you can’t make something really awesome because you have to support the A5

⏹️ ▶️ John because there’s no way for you to exclude it. I mean, technically, of course, there are but like that Apple doesn’t let you

⏹️ ▶️ John exclude it by making up something bogus. You know, like checking for screen resolution and,

⏹️ ▶️ John and retina versus non retina or something like that. And a lot of people are going to tell us that one of the things

⏹️ ▶️ John you can specify is you can require metal support. And apparently metals not supported

⏹️ ▶️ John on some of the A5 devices? I don’t know the details, but…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s correct. The problem is it’s also not supported on the A6 devices. So, Metal can require

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone 5s and up. But if you require Metal, you are ruling out the iPhone 5 and 5c

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the iPad 4, which is annoying because the A6 is a pretty good chip. It’s a pretty big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco jump over the A5. And it would be a shame to lose those.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, it’s probably not worth most apps, except the highest end games doing this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trick. And plus, I think, you know, and Apple would still probably not appreciate it. Like if some podcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app said, Oh, I require metal. And it’s like, you know, really do you like for what?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So that’s, that’s why I put this in here. Like, again, there are many things you could possibly do that

⏹️ ▶️ John may be possible with public API’s. But the only thing that actually matters is whether Apple frowns upon the

⏹️ ▶️ John practice. So metal is one where you could say, Okay, well, I have legitimate use, I’m using metal, it’s not supporting

⏹️ ▶️ John these things like that’s fine. But what if you have a game that requires

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the sort of upper tier devices to work correctly and you just can’t scale it down because it uses

⏹️ ▶️ John some lighting effect that’s like essential to your gameplay or whatever, but you don’t use metal, you’re still

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re like, okay, well, now I can check for some other GPU quality or whatever, like that essentially, this

⏹️ ▶️ John seems to be use case that not only is Apple not actively trying to support, but also, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like if you are a clever developer and came up with a way to exclude of those devices that they might smack

⏹️ ▶️ John you down with the hammer of the App Store and say, oh, sorry, you’re out. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I think these are in the show notes somewhere. A couple of people sent us links to screenshots of things they bought

⏹️ ▶️ John on the App Store that when they launched them on their unsupported device, like technically it’s supported. As far as the App Store

⏹️ ▶️ John is concerned, yeah, you can totally buy this device. It’ll run. It’ll run fine. When you launch it, it just puts up a big graphic that says, sorry, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t run this on this device. And those are the type of apps that I feel like maybe App Store review

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t test this on every possible piece of hardware and has no idea this is happening. And if Apple knew about it, these apps

⏹️ ▶️ John would be pulled from the store because I can’t imagine Apple letting you do that. Basically sell an application because Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John has a rule that like, if your application doesn’t meet some minimum threshold of usefulness, like the

⏹️ ▶️ John I am rich app would probably get rejected these days then it doesn’t go in the store. And this app,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you run it like an iPad mini, just puts up a graphic that says, sorry, you can’t play this game. And that’s like after

⏹️ ▶️ John you downloaded it. And whether it’s free or not, that is something that I imagine Apple would not approve of. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is another place where developers have a problem in how, how to,

⏹️ ▶️ John how do I develop my product? How do I formulate a business plan? And how do I

⏹️ ▶️ John sell this product to people? How do I even conceptualize a product that can be sold and Apple is not

⏹️ ▶️ John quite doing enough to create an environment that lets developers do what they want to do in a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John way, which is a shame.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we should probably talk at least a little bit about the after show from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the last episode with which was talking about Gamergate. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s a couple of links that we wanted to share with you guys. And I’m guessing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey john, you were the one that added these.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think we got I got most of the links I wanted to put out in last week’s show notes. So if you haven’t, we didn’t talk about all the

⏹️ ▶️ John things that I linked. But if you go back to last week’s show notes, and look at the links to some good stuff there. and then shortly after the show,

⏹️ ▶️ John either this came out after the show or at least I read it after the show. There was one more that I thought was good. They got passed around a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s worth reading. And this one is, it’s weird because it’s from a movie reviewer and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s from a movie reviewer who has a sort of a, who writes underneath sort of a persona.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s film crit Hulk as in film critic Hulk. And he assumes that he, who

⏹️ ▶️ John knows, writes as if it’s the Hulk writing movie reviews, sort of talking

⏹️ ▶️ John like caveman like this, like or like Hulk talks or whatever, and it’s all in caps.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that prevents a lot of people from reading anything that he writes because it’s all in caps.

⏹️ ▶️ John So there are two, before I discuss what he actually wrote about GamerGate, there are two things you will need. One,

⏹️ ▶️ John there is the de-Hulkifier. There are many ways that you can, you know, you could just go in, and if you’re a web developer,

⏹️ ▶️ John and just change everything to lowercase really easily. But the de-Hulkifier tries to actually make things sentence case for you.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you’re going to try to read this, don’t try to read it in all caps. you’ll you’ll probably go blind.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, look into the deal. I’ll go far first. That’s one link. And the second link is an interview with the guy

⏹️ ▶️ John or an, is it an interview? No, I think it’s just writing about him. Uh, but asking him questions about

⏹️ ▶️ John why do you do this? Why do you write your movie reviews in all caps is if you’re the Hulk, what’s the point of that? It seems like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s annoying. You’re reducing your readership. Is it a gimmick, whatever, so on and so forth. So you can read that to explain why he does this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I read the explanation. I understand the purpose behind it, but bottom line, I find it very difficult to

⏹️ ▶️ John read very long things of text that are all in caps and he writes really long things all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right. So anyway, the actual article that he wrote here, his is from a perspective of

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of despair and sadness about this thing has happened and

⏹️ ▶️ John he feels helpless to do anything about it and it looks like it’s horrible. It’s kind of like viewing a tragedy

⏹️ ▶️ John from afar. Like everyone is all just, you know, all these people are smashing together

⏹️ ▶️ John and not understanding each other and there are bad outcomes and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know and it doesn’t bode well for the future and so on and so forth and so if you if you

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re looking to read something to try to understand the people who find

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole movement sort of the whole phenomenon upsetting right like

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re not so much a cheerleader for one side or the other but they think Gamergate has been incredibly damaging

⏹️ ▶️ John and they try and they try to explain why uh I mean, he’s he’s against

⏹️ ▶️ John Gamergate, as everyone is at this point, I believe. You know, most of the mainstream media

⏹️ ▶️ John has come down pretty hard on a side of being against Gamergate, but this is not like it’s not cheerleading

⏹️ ▶️ John for like we need to get those Gamergate guys. I think it is very, very understanding

⏹️ ▶️ John and empathetic. And if you can get into the headspace of the people who are viewing this sort of.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not entirely from the outside, but more like, I don’t know, it’s super long. We

⏹️ ▶️ John should just give it a try and read it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Film Crit Hulk, his movie reviews are similar, very long,

⏹️ ▶️ John very rambling, very emotional. I

⏹️ ▶️ John find them interesting sometimes even when I disagree with them. So if you if you are still feel like

⏹️ ▶️ John you feel like there’s something of substance to Gamergate and you don’t understand why people are upset about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is one more thing that you can read. It’s a little game where you have to try to turn it into a sentence

⏹️ ▶️ John case before you get to read it without going crazy So that’s it. I didn’t want to go into it too far, but did either

⏹️ ▶️ John one of you perchance even attempt to read this?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I Don’t know if I can answer that

⏹️ ▶️ John question Because it was really long You have an excuse now case. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John play the play the baby card pull it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Come on Yeah, so I have a new baby. So I have no time for that BS

⏹️ ▶️ John I was totally busy couldn’t read it. You totally meant to read

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. But anyway, no honest to goodness I really do intend to and now that I know that there’s a way to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey take away the all caps I probably will but I looked at the length and I looked at the all caps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I was like no I can’t do this

⏹️ ▶️ John and honestly it could be shorter like with the many things that he writes as one of the major complaints is like it’s long and doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John seem like it needs to be that long but there is There’s a certain charm to maybe reading one of those things,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you know, anyway, I’m going to talk I ramble on on in my writing as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John Before anyone calls me on that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wish he actually wrote this in the source code in regular case, and then just used CSS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco text transform to make it uppercase on display. Then you could just copy it out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep, and that’s the easiest way to change it to lowercase, is just do text transform for lowercase. But the extension will try to

⏹️ ▶️ John sentence case it for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nice. And of course, getting rid of the all caps doesn’t change the sort of Hulk write like this,

⏹️ ▶️ John like that. It won’t add, it won’t put the articles back in. won’t, you know, so there’s there’s always going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit of that Hulk flavor to it. But he slips in and out of that he can’t maintain that character.

⏹️ ▶️ John I found over the long haul and in the middle of the thing, he just starts writing regular sentences that happened to be in all caps.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can we get Jonathan Colton to sing this to us? Maybe that would be easier. That’d be a long song.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’d still be better. It’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Are we finally done with follow up? I think we are. Yes, we are never done with follow up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair point. So on a sort of tangentially related note with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey regard to people being, I don’t know, made fun of, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey losing the word I’m trying to think of, but anyway, persecuted. So people being persecuted that shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be. Tim Cook came out today, is that right? Or officially came out as being gay

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and wrote a really good and reasonably short piece about it and about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey why he’s saying it and what it’s all about. And I definitely recommend reading it. It is not in all caps.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is written like a regular human should write it. It is not written like a superhero.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it’s a really, really wonderful article. And I can’t recommend it enough. We’ll put a link in the show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m really happy he did this. I mean, a lot of people have assumed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was gay, but, you know, just never said anything. And, you know, because it’s not, you know, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not other people’s place to say, really. You know, like, if he didn’t want to be out, you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco his choice. And it’s really, it’s sad, really, in our society,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s sad that this matters, but the fact is, it does. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s sad that this is major news. Ideally, you know, your sexual orientation,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the sexual orientation of the CEO of a big company shouldn’t matter any more than, like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how they like their steak cooked. It’s like, who cares? Like, that’s not relevant to his job at all. That is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco relevant to his public persona, you know, like the role he needs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to play in public and what the public needs to know about him. His sexual orientation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not at all relevant. But the fact is, and he writes this in the essay,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, the fact is, it does still matter because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the society as a whole is still nowhere near even mainstream,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let alone full acceptance of homosexuality and various other, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco LGBTQ states and identities, and not to mention things like gender identity. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s so many things where we’re still way behind on. So, the fact is, it is still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very significant that he is coming out in public

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that is that is still a risk in a lot to a lot of people and that is still significant

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and again like I I wish I wish he didn’t have to but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I see why he wanted to do it

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah that’s that but this type of issue you know people who make sort of the comment

⏹️ ▶️ John that like like you just said this other well that that doesn’t that shouldn’t matter it’s irrelevant and the fact that

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s writing an article about it to declare this is just such bs because

⏹️ ▶️ John why is he emphasizing this it’s really not important like uh it should just be

⏹️ ▶️ John it should just be you know sort of unspoken there’s no need you need you don’t need to throw this in my face you know uh

⏹️ ▶️ John or just saying like by by talking about it and by emphasizing it you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John actually making the issue worse and really we should just all be equal and stuff and like this is

⏹️ ▶️ John very similar to the sexism issue in that events like this don’t happen in isolation if you view it in

⏹️ ▶️ John isolation you say by saying this you are drawing attention to the issue and you’re just making it so you’re never going to be accepted

⏹️ ▶️ John because you keep trying to show yourself as being different and so on and so forth but like

⏹️ ▶️ John viewing anything like that viewing you know any event or any action

⏹️ ▶️ John in isolation and then trying to apply logic to it and saying therefore this you know this this is illogical

⏹️ ▶️ John to be doing this or you shouldn’t it doesn’t make any sense because it’s happening in the context of a world where

⏹️ ▶️ John we know that there is prejudice against gay people. There are laws on the books

⏹️ ▶️ John that are, you know, that you can be fired for saying that you’re gay. Like still, like, you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the world this is taking place in, which is why, you know, why he said in the article, this is why I have to do this, because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s the context of the world that I live in, that I have to do this. Nobody is writing an article

⏹️ ▶️ John that a one page article on Businessweek that’s getting this kind of coverage and saying, I’d like to come out and tell you now

⏹️ ▶️ John that actually I am married. Nobody’s writing that because we do not, the context

⏹️ ▶️ John is that we do not live in a society where being married is something that can get you

⏹️ ▶️ John fired, something that can make people prejudiced against you. You know, there are not huge groups of people who are just against

⏹️ ▶️ John married people that we could live in that society.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco There’s no, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John as arbitrary as

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean. Trying to get a job as a married woman who’s 30. I

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t say women. That’s the woman issue. Like the women issue is the same thing. When people say like Anything that happens that,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, that women will say about sexism and they’ll say like, oh, that doesn’t make any sense, blah, blah, blah. It’s like it’s happening and racism

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly the same. In isolation, you’re crazy, you know, sort of pseudo rationalist logic

⏹️ ▶️ John works. But this event, this person, this action, this thing is happening in the context

⏹️ ▶️ John of a society where, you know, we’re in a country that used to have slavery, where there’s massive institutional

⏹️ ▶️ John racism, where there’s millennia of oppression of women. That is the context

⏹️ ▶️ John in which this action is taking place. and you have to view the things in context. And I think people have a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John time with this, because people understand, for the most part at this point, I think, the context of being gay.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, they know gay people have been oppressed and

⏹️ ▶️ John discriminated against. We know we’re in the active process of trying to get our laws straight on this with marriage equality,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? You know, just in the same way in the civil rights movement, it’s like, oh, I could see that this was bad, and now it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John getting better when this transition. The problem is, when you get into situations where you either think that has already come

⏹️ ▶️ John and gone and it’s not a problem anymore, like racism, or you think it’s never been a problem, like sexism, or you’re like, that’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John the way things are, or you can’t even remember no one is alive who was around, you know, for women who were getting suffrage. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John I am also sad that, mostly sad that he felt like he had to keep this part of him

⏹️ ▶️ John hidden for so long. Not that I thought that it is irrelevant to his job in

⏹️ ▶️ John any way other than making him empathetic to other people who are also marginalized, but yeah, You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just can you imagine being him being like even when Steve Jobs still

⏹️ ▶️ John have just a tremendously powerful person in a successful company and yet feeling like

⏹️ ▶️ John you had to not so much keep it secret secret, but basically this is part of me that I

⏹️ ▶️ John know I can’t I can’t talk about because there may be damaging consequences, damaging consequences for

⏹️ ▶️ John the company that I work for, for my career, for, you know, You know, for

⏹️ ▶️ John like, imagine if he had come out as soon as he was named CEO or just before, like how that would,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, oh, that could mess up our transition. You know, it’s like it’s such a shame that

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the case. That’s the world that we live in, that this had to be a carefully

⏹️ ▶️ John controlled thing where, you know, and by the way, speaking of carefully controlled in typical

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple fashion, I think he did an amazing job in terms of not letting anyone else dictate the story,

⏹️ ▶️ John not sort of getting outed or pressured into answering questions about his private life or anything like that, even though

⏹️ ▶️ John this has had been a persistent sort of, you know, rumor for a long time. Press was mostly

⏹️ ▶️ John good about squashing that and saying, it’s not this is not something that you should be discussing in the

⏹️ ▶️ John tech press because it’s not a tech issue. So he owned this issue. He came out on his own terms

⏹️ ▶️ John the way he wanted to, in a way that shows why he’s such a great Apple CEO,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Because like he controlled the messaging and and just the timing and everything

⏹️ ▶️ John I think to be like, you know, after after the transition from Steve

⏹️ ▶️ John Jobs, after the Apple Watch announcement and no one’s asking if Apple can ever make another great

⏹️ ▶️ John product. And it’s just yeah, I don’t know. I have a lot of feelings about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m excited that he’s out. I’m happy that he is providing an example, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, to more marginalized people to say you can be

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever you want to be in life. There there is no glass ceiling that should be preventing you from, you know, becoming,

⏹️ ▶️ John becoming, you know, whatever you want to be. You know, we’re still not all the way there, but like the same way Barack

⏹️ ▶️ John Obama’s, you know, kids growing up in a world where there’s a president who looks like them.

⏹️ ▶️ John Long way to go on all fronts in these things. No gay presidents, no woman presidents, no atheist

⏹️ ▶️ John presidents, which probably never happened in any of our lifetimes. But you know, every little bit of helps,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? Oh, yeah. I mean, like, that’s like, you know, before he came out, it was like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was in a position of power. he wasn’t not coming out publicly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because he was afraid. I always assumed that he was not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco coming out publicly because he didn’t think that should be relevant to his job. And so he was choosing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, that from that position of power, from the position of being in control.

⏹️ ▶️ John But also because he knew this was a thing that some people don’t like. Again, he wasn’t saying

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s going to come out, I’m going to come out as left-handed. Nobody cares. Like literally nobody cares that he’s left-handed. But he

⏹️ ▶️ John knows that there are people who do care that he’s gay, which is terrible, but that is the context

⏹️ ▶️ John in which that decision is being made. And you can keep saying like, oh, it’s about my privacy. It’s like not coming out to say

⏹️ ▶️ John you have bad vision. Like no one knows you wear glasses because you always wear contacts. And that’s technically a health matter. And it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John private information. And if anyone asks you a question, do you wear glasses? That’s private information. I’m sorry, I won’t reveal that. People will

⏹️ ▶️ John think you were crazy because there is no context in which you wearing glasses is meaningful to anybody.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s when people throw those issues of like, well, it’s private information. You shouldn’t have to say it or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John health information, like your eyesight is more private than your sexual orientation. The only

⏹️ ▶️ John reason we think sexual orientation is private is because there are so many people and institutions and laws that are prejudiced

⏹️ ▶️ John against it. That is the maddening thing. And that’s why I think you can’t ever hear people

⏹️ ▶️ John making those comparisons in either direction. It’s like context, it is all about context.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, you can look at this from the way of like, you know, well, was he sending a more powerful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco message never addressing this issue in public and just being who he was and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and just but just never letting this even enter the public discussion or coming out publicly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think you know you could argue it either way but I think he made the right move coming out publicly because I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think if if being gay was more societally accepted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then it would make sense for him to just never address personal matters he didn’t think were relevant to his job

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but because we’re not there yet I think this was this was a strong move

⏹️ ▶️ John but why would he like but if if we were in a society where nobody cared he would

⏹️ ▶️ John never have felt the need to hide in the first place because because again like you don’t hot you don’t hide your left-handedness like nobody

⏹️ ▶️ John cares

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey like literally nobody airs

⏹️ ▶️ John and we’re never probably gonna be to that part where nobody nobody cares cuz you know human evolution takes longer than that right

⏹️ ▶️ John but I and who knows if we’re selecting for the right things at this point Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John if he’s going to come out and do this in the context of the world that we live in, there is a good way

⏹️ ▶️ John it can happen, and there’s a bad way that it can happen. And not having it at all is perhaps the worst outcome, because then it would

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like he was the most powerful CEO of the biggest company in the world, and even he felt

⏹️ ▶️ John it wasn’t safe for him to do this, right? Because of the world we live in. So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John glad that he did it, and I’m glad that he did it in a way that was

⏹️ ▶️ John positive, Like it was not negative, it was not, his hand was not forced, it

⏹️ ▶️ John did not disrupt anything else. Because if he had come out and had disrupted things, the lesson would be,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, be careful, you better stay in the closet if you’re a powerful CEO, because look what it could do to your stock price, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John That would totally be unfair, but that would be the takeaway if there was a problem with it. And now

⏹️ ▶️ John I think he’s entirely owning it and owning the message, and it’s been universally

⏹️ ▶️ John positive as far as I can tell.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, even the timing was masterful. like, there’s not a lot going on in, you know, in tech

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this week. He’s not like, you know, it doesn’t appear as though he’s like trying to like, bury some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad Apple PR or overshadow someone else’s news or anything else. The in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple product cycle, like they’ve already announced their fall products. We’re not going to hear from Apple again for the rest of the year in all likelihood.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The next major Apple event is going to be in the spring whenever the watch comes out. And we’re also like right between

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their last announcements and Black Friday and holiday shopping. So it’s like, it’s like a perfect little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco window where like nothing else is really going on. It’s not going to appear as if this was some kind of political

⏹️ ▶️ Marco move or some kind of like you know move for Apple’s political gain because it’s not like you could tell that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was this was not for that reason. Moves like this it just seems

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over and over again man Tim Cook is so freaking good like he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so good at his job he is I mean if anyone had any doubts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco watching watching what has you know what what Apple has announced what they’ve released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and how Tim has handled things in the last year. Wow, like he is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is just so clear that yeah, he was the right guy for this job.

⏹️ ▶️ John No question. I’m still sorry about the 1664 28 storage split, though. That’s fair. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s fair. And whether it lands on him just because the CEO or the lands

⏹️ ▶️ John on him because he had a closer influence. So there’s, you know, there’s still room for improvement.

⏹️ ▶️ John had some moves to I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oh

⏹️ ▶️ John no he totally did he totally you know they all had their idiosyncrasies it just like I knew what I felt like

⏹️ ▶️ John I knew what Steve Jobs issues were and Tim Cook I can only speculate at this point

⏹️ ▶️ John like well Apple did this thing I don’t like was that despite Tim Cook’s better wishes or was he the one pushing

⏹️ ▶️ John for it or neither and I have no idea cuz I don’t I don’t know I don’t know his personality yet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think one thing we can say about Tim Cook is that he is exceptionally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deliberate. Like, he does not do anything he doesn’t want to do. He

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does not do anything without really thinking it through. Like, he is extremely,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, his actions, his statements, they’re all very deliberate.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, it doesn’t seem like he’s holding back. Like, you know, even like when he, you know, on things like analyst

⏹️ ▶️ Marco calls and interviews and stuff that. Like, you can tell, you know, he’s not he’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like holding back and trying to calculate every move because he’s afraid. He’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just, you know, he is extremely deliberate in, you know, this is what I’m going to say.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is how I’m going to say it. I’m not going to talk about those other things. Like, I’m not going to tell you about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our TV unicorn super watch thing. Like, you know, just very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deliberate. That’s the best word I can use.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think to wrap this up, I think Jimmy Fallon had the best or his writing staff had the best

⏹️ ▶️ John one liner about this. Did you hear this joke went around a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey on now?

⏹️ ▶️ John So Apple CEO Tim Cook officially came out as gay, but knowing Apple and new Tim Cook will probably be out next week,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is a good like general purpose, you know, because any Apple fan would be like Apple doesn’t come out with products every week, but you get

⏹️ ▶️ John what they’re getting at. Seems like that to people who don’t follow the tech industry that every time you get an iPhone the new one comes out and you feel

⏹️ ▶️ John sad. So the joke works broadly but it’s definitely a Tonight Show style joke.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah it doesn’t work to anybody who actually pays attention like yeah they release them every year at about the

⏹️ ▶️ John same time. Doesn’t work on nerds you would say so

⏹️ ▶️ John excuse me but Apple releases iPhones every year

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. Was that you trying to do Merlin’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John comic book. That was

⏹️ ▶️ John like Lumberg mixed with uh with uh Ben

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Ho.

⏹️ ▶️ John Ben Ho, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right we should probably be done.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week. Hovah, Backblaze and and we will see you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over they didn’t even mean to begin because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. Oh it It was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research. Margo and Casey wouldn’t let him. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. It was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-I-C-O, A-R-M, D-N-T,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Armin, S-I-R, A-C,

⏹️ ▶️ John USA Syracuse. It’s accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ John they didn’t mean to. Accidental, tech broadcasts so long.

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess we’ll save Microsoft Band for next week. Are you going to get one? I saw

⏹️ ▶️ John one. So on the other day, is it out? People have them already. It’s for sale. You can go to store and buy it right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They announced it at like 10 p.m. like two days ago. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it was. Well, we didn’t talk about it. It’s we’ll talk about next week. I have things to say about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right. And my other exciting arrival, not as exciting as Casey’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I did actually buy myself an SSD.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Whoa, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John huge. Congratulations. I’m calling him Declan.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John You should

⏹️ ▶️ Marco call him Disclan. How about how about diskless? Oh, nice.

⏹️ ▶️ John I finally gave in because I just couldn’t take it anymore. And but like and I knew it was going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John painful. And it was because like I had a one point five terabyte drive and the

⏹️ ▶️ John biggest SSD I think you can buy anywhere is one terabyte. And so I’m replacing a one point five terabyte

⏹️ ▶️ John drive with a one terabyte SSD. And I was spending a lot of time in disk inventory X trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John find where am I going to dump the 200 or 300 gigs or whatever surplus that I had?

⏹️ ▶️ John And just spinning this is so damn slow. Like first, the first thing to go was my virtual machines. So I put them

⏹️ ▶️ John on another spinning disk and I’m like pulling everything off and you know, doing some final clones of the drive before I pull it out. And then I have to

⏹️ ▶️ John take that Delta and put it somewhere. And I was putting the Delta down onto the Synology and then I was cloning

⏹️ ▶️ John that thing out. And just it takes so long when there’s lots of little files like my old iPhoto library that I

⏹️ ▶️ John like to have there was like 90 gigs, like a really old iPhoto library when it used to be on my computer. So many little

⏹️ ▶️ John files and the spinning disk It takes so long to back them up. It just took forever.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I think I’m out the other side now. I’ve taken my old 1.5 terabyte drive and just put it up on

⏹️ ▶️ John a shelf. I’m gonna leave it there for a while just to make sure I didn’t lose anything on it. Think I pulled

⏹️ ▶️ John everything else off onto the Synology and I’m up and running and it’s nice. I got a Samsung 850

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro. I went all out. It’s just everything is so much faster. So I think I’ve got

⏹️ ▶️ John another year on this. Basically, I’ve basically decided that I’m not gonna get the 5K iMac. gonna cruise with this

⏹️ ▶️ John for another year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait for prob well see what happens

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah that’s what I’m gonna do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more or less same deal with the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John no I’m gonna get that I’m still haven’t got it yet but I will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna win this bet you’ll see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey roughly how much is the was the SSD out of curiosity like 600 bucks is

⏹️ ▶️ John expensive for a terabyte for a terabyte yeah you can get a terabyte cheaper if you buy

⏹️ ▶️ John like last year’s model or like a lesser perfect 850 Pro is like the new hotness

⏹️ ▶️ John is an attack has a good review of it it’s not that much better than any of the older ones when i’m like

⏹️ ▶️ John i’m just gonna buy it like i’m not i’m gonna be using this ssd for a long time i’m gonna carry it with me

⏹️ ▶️ John across my next machines right now i’ll buy one of those little you know bus powered cases for it or something which is

⏹️ ▶️ John a great thing you can do with an ssd really easily and with usb3 it’s not you know it’s not that slow and i’ll end up using

⏹️ ▶️ John it as a backup drive and stuff but it’s it’s nice and fast now it feels like my work computer

⏹️ ▶️ John and nice and fast and quiet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Yeah, all those all those spinning discs you don’t have to hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John anymore. I

⏹️ ▶️ John get a client guy to be clack.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John that was terrible. So my reboot times are way faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nice.

⏹️ ▶️ John Gotta have priorities.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m about to pass out. Can we do titles?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Why are you tired for some reason?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Casey? Oh my god,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it hit me like a wall like 10 or 20 minutes ago. I’m dying. Oh, don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worry. You’ll have a solid sleep tonight. Oh yeah, totally.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, at least you don’t have to go to work. Thanks. I think after after my second was born, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John I took

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco two days off work.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like the first one you take all the pictures, take all the time off. The second one’s like, yeah, yeah, another baby, whatever. We’ll see how Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey goes. Okay, so quick aside before we do titles. So we got a micro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two thirds camera that, the one that Sean Blanc recommended, and I really, really like it. Olympus

⏹️ ▶️ Casey OMD EM10, I think that’s probably slightly wrong. But anyway, look at the tools and toys website.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey They have the worst model names. They really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John do.

⏹️ ▶️ John You wrote a blog post about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s right. I’ve wrote a blog post about it. So anyway, I really like it, but I’ve been

⏹️ ▶️ Casey snapping photos incessantly. And it’s funny, because as I’m taking like 35 photos of him sleeping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and doing nothing, I’m thinking to myself, there’s no chance I’m ever going to look at this picture again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m already that parent that’s taking photos of him doing nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ching and it’s, there’s no point whatsoever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John And yet,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can extrapolate that out again with your organization where you’re putting your photos into folders

⏹️ ▶️ John that you do by day, like that’s out the window. Yeah, start graphing. your number of

⏹️ ▶️ John photos taken per day.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I haven’t looked since yesterday at how many pictures I’ve taken of Declan. And to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be fair, I’m shooting in raw and JPEG, which is also probably silly, but nevertheless,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so and of course, there’s like a gazillion duplicates of him sleeping where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he moved, you know, three centimeters across 34 pictures. But in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey two days that he has been alive, I’ve taken by my estimation, somewhere between definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more than six, I would guess closer to 10 gigs of pictures. Our freaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wedding, the photographer took about 10 gigs worth of pictures.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I am so screwed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To be fair, the photographer’s pictures were smaller each. Yeah, that’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I’m so screwed. You guys are killing me. My wedding photographer took pictures on film.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re old. You are definitely so old.

⏹️ ▶️ John And we had to pay a bazillion dollars to get them like professionally scanned to and eventually got around to that. So now they

⏹️ ▶️ John are in my photo library. But we also have that we also have the negatives. So the only all your digital pictures will be gone, but our

⏹️ ▶️ John wedding will be preserved in these.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My parents are actually going in taking boxes of of VHS tapes to Costco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get them to put them on DVD. And I’m sure that’s why I don’t know the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey details in terms of cost, but I do know that it’s heinously expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it’s not that’s not like my parents did that with their maybe you don’t have to do like eight millimeter

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey eight millimeter. Yeah. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John those anyway, they transfer that and that looks terrible. Right. But for wedding photos like these are high quality

⏹️ ▶️ John photos, even though it was film. And so you want to get them like high quality scans. that that is expensive

⏹️ ▶️ John and nerve wracking because like you send those off and that’s all you’ve got.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s that I think is the worst. Like we have like some old VHS tapes that we’d like to get transferred, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I’m not crazy about the idea of like, you know, mailing them off to somewhere and maybe I should do like a raid kind of set up like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll send like one to one place. I went to another place to send them all individually. Nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, so let’s do some titles. So Casey, I have to give you a photographic tip well two tips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco number one uh the secret to good photography is lots of bad photography

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah well still i’m getting there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah like it will no but like even like it will you will you will need to take a lot of pictures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get one great one and that’s fine that’s what every photographer does they just don’t talk about it similarly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i suggest that you you know get get get as good as you can at capturing motion while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco declan is not doing a lot of motion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because kids move very, very quickly. I’ve never used that camera before. I assume

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has interchangeable lenses like most micro four thirds. Pay attention when you when you select lenses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to their focusing speeds because that matters a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s exactly why I ended up convincing myself. Well, there’s actually two reasons I convinced myself to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a lens that was, I think, almost as much as the body, if not more than the body,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which for someone who’s never had a fancy camera, that’s like, Are you kidding me? I’m spending more on a couple of pieces

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of glass than I am the actual camera itself. Anyway, one of the reasons was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because it focuses silly quickly. Although I haven’t really gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a grip or a grasp of how to do shutter priority on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera. I need to work on that to crank the shutter speed way the hell up, or at least I think I do. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not a very good photographer, obviously. But the other reason I wanted to get the lens that we ended up getting, and I could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tell you what it is, but I forget. I just know it goes really, really low. F-stop.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s like 1.4, 1.8. Right. You’ve discovered blur. Yep. Oh, God. Bokeh or whatever it’s called.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey B-O-K-E-H. Oh, it’s my favorite thing in the world.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We’re going to have everybody telling us how it’s pronounced. Please don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Please don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I don’t actually know the correct pronunciation either. I’ve only ever read it. I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heard bouquet. I mean, it’s based on a Japanese word. And so, you know, we’re going to argue about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how to pronounce it. It doesn’t matter. Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nobody cares how to pronounce it. Don’t even bother emailing us. But yeah, that thing, favorite thing in the world.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, also also consider infant photography like Marco was saying practice because the

⏹️ ▶️ John you know like infants are terrible little pink worms. Our infants

⏹️ ▶️ John are anyway like they like they don’t do anything exciting if they do anything that looks cute

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s accidental like it’s it’s gas it’s whatever right you’re what you’re gearing up for is honing

⏹️ ▶️ John your skills for when they turn two or three and start doing the super cute stuff like intentionally and by

⏹️ ▶️ John then you’ll be an old pro at it so this is all like lots of like batting practice like

⏹️ ▶️ John figure out this figure out your camera figure out photography figure out the best places in your house to take pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of natural lighting and everything like that and you have plenty of practice and you’ll get one or two good shots where the kid looks

⏹️ ▶️ John like he’s smiling or making a funny face or looks like a movie star from the 30s or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco generally speaking if you ever use the flash you’re probably doing it wrong and yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so if you can the more light you can get the better as long as it doesn’t come from a flash that’s on the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I don’t think you’re gonna be getting into remote flash set up so yeah as long as it doesn’t come from a flash the you you want a ton

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of light generally speaking now that you’re now that you have a wide aperture lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’re gonna be obsessed with blur for a while keep in mind that while blurred background does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco look good in most cases your subject should always be completely in focus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the most part I mean yes this is a rule photographers can break once they know to break the rules. But the most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco common thing that I see, and I went through this phase briefly… Their

⏹️ ▶️ John nose is in focus.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah. Like, you step it down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to like f1.4 on your new prime lens and yeah, you have like a centimeter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of depth in focus. Yeah. And literally, yeah, it’s like just the nose and the rest of their face or just their eyes and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their nose is blurry. Like, that looks really annoying. And like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the blurriness of the background will look cool temporarily until you realize, oh, I can’t actually see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the subject except for this one centimeter slice of them. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John so not to mention if like if Aaron is behind holding the baby, like Aaron is completely

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey bright.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sorry, you’re outside my one inch thick, you know, focus plane.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And I think that I’m I am doing that. I am guilty of that for sure. And some of that is because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I really want that. Okay, bokeh, bokeh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco whatever. It’s pronounced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hover. Yeah, but either way, I got to get better about that. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s it is really nice to have an actual camera rather than the iPhone as

⏹️ ▶️ Casey much as I do love the iPhone’s pictures. And I got to tell you, I am

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not used to having any sort of physical shutter. And it is really damn satisfying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey having that that shutter that that machinery move about in your hand as you’re clicking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the shutter or whatever the shutter button. It’s deceivingly satisfying for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey someone who grew up with physical cameras, you know, with film cameras.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, my so micro four thirds is does it have a viewfinder in a mirror?

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s no there’s no mirror. It’s mirrorless. So he’s not he’s not hearing the mirror class. So you’re you’re hearing the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shutter?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Correct. Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, Marco’s car where it just plays a shutter sound from a little.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t turn that off. That’s like, That’s like the first thing. No, I leave it on because I need I want to know when the shots

⏹️ ▶️ John go off. Like I maybe I’m again an old person. I need to I need to hear that sound right. Otherwise

⏹️ ▶️ John I just feel like I don’t it’s like the people I guess it’s the same as people leave key click on. I do not leave key click

⏹️ ▶️ John on. I don’t understand people who do but for cameras I mean I guess it’s the same thing. I have an established

⏹️ ▶️ John history of cameras that make a noise when you push a button like they have an established history of of keyboards but I just feel like when

⏹️ ▶️ John the keyboard’s on the screen it’s not close enough whereas the cameras I held that made that noise back in a day

⏹️ ▶️ John felt like these cameras like they were physical things. This is not a camera on a screen like I would never like the

⏹️ ▶️ John shutter sound on my you know the iOS camera I could do without that but I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t believe this is this is a shocking revelation that you leave on an artificial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shutter sound effect on your on a camera that I would never have guessed that I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean it doesn’t have to be a shutter sound I just need I think I just need to have something especially it’s my cameras like I have cheap

⏹️ ▶️ John cameras right so they’re slow like it doesn’t take the it’s not ready to take a picture immediately the flash

⏹️ ▶️ John takes a long time to recharge even without the flash takes a long time for the image processor to be ready like it’s not it’s not a pro level

⏹️ ▶️ John camera i don’t have like real cameras so i need that little clickiness to know when the picture

⏹️ ▶️ John went off and you know when i can take the next one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so wait so what do you what do you have now i thought you had like what

⏹️ ▶️ John do we have we had i can uh we had a canon 5d mark ii for my brother’s wedding

⏹️ ▶️ John like he borrowed it he borrowed it from MIT. Don’t tell anyone. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John and, uh, and I had that for like a couple of days surrounding his wedding to take pictures with. And I shouldn’t have done that because

⏹️ ▶️ John it lets you know what a real camera is like, you know, like, uh, you know, but we got our first digital

⏹️ ▶️ John camera. We got our kid and I, I, we did have point and shoots and then I moved up to super zooms, which is what I stick to.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was kind of like, you know, a really big zoom lens. That’s not a new changeable

⏹️ ▶️ John on a a camera with a sensor that’s not really that big. But you can get

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I use it for when we go to the beach. I can get the ocean pictures where the kids are in the waves and I’m standing up to my waist

⏹️ ▶️ John in the water. I can still get pictures of them when they’re out farther.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but you’re 12 feet tall.

⏹️ ▶️ John So superzoom is a very versatile like they’re not. They’re not going to take really good pictures, but they are very versatile

⏹️ ▶️ John for situations where you can’t zoom with your feet, but just frequently with kids. Like I can snag my kid

⏹️ ▶️ John from across the auditorium when he’s up on stage, you know, doing something or across a field

⏹️ ▶️ John or at family events where everyone’s sitting around in the backyard. I can grab a close up of someone who is on the other

⏹️ ▶️ John side of the yard from me that looks really good because it’s bright sunlight because the camera, you know, camera doesn’t have good low

⏹️ ▶️ John light quality. So that’s what I’ve been sticking with the super zooms and super zooms are getting almost kind of respectable.

⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, not still not going into like an interchangeable lens camera, but the recent super

⏹️ ▶️ John zooms, especially that new Sony one. I forget the model number for it have somewhat decent

⏹️ ▶️ John sensors sort of on the level with the micro four thirds things or sometimes even better

⏹️ ▶️ John attached to a non interchangeable lens that that is actually okay is actually pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, so it has served me well, well enough anyway, especially with the zooms like

⏹️ ▶️ John I was gonna say if you want to see good childhood photography

⏹️ ▶️ John follow the the Murgans I don’t know how to pronounce her last name yeah enough

⏹️ ▶️ John on Twitter’s they have they have lots of cute kids and they take again they post some really cute pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John they have it they have a new baby as well and they they demonstrate how to take good pictures of a baby

⏹️ ▶️ John who is otherwise not very interesting because you know they just sort of sit there

⏹️ ▶️ John although their baby I think he’s like three months old now and he now he’s started making real faces he is a character

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t look at Adam Lissagor’s baby though

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh I’ve seen his baby

⏹️ ▶️ John because he’s the cutest baby in the entire planet and it’s unfair yep that baby’s ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ John so you look at your baby you’re like why don’t you look like that baby sandwich kills us every time it’s unbelievable

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a little pumpkin head I can’t stand it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see this is it this is John we told you everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John you both agree this is like the cutest baby in the world totally agreed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it’s so true it is absolutely true but that that you can tell from the sound of your voice

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that you’re just dying in the best possible way

⏹️ ▶️ John is adorable he hurts me when I look at him like stop being so and then he’s at the little videos where he does the dancing and

⏹️ ▶️ John everything

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s adorable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yep all right can we do titles before I die please you have no idea what you’re in for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today so this is so cute nope I don’t I’m gonna go pass out and by pass out I mean get woken up by my screaming

⏹️ ▶️ Casey baby as soon as I shut my eyes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah but he’s so cute.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s worth it. Oh, no, I’m not complaining.

⏹️ ▶️ John Babies aren’t that cute. Babies aren’t that cute until they until they start. You know what

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re like. Like the first the first month there just well, I don’t know. I’m my first

⏹️ ▶️ John baby was was terrible. Yours does not sound like he’s terrible, but still

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a Simpsons reference for Casey. I’ll preload it for you. We called our first baby scream a pillar.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nope, nope. Well, anyway, if you Google for Simpsons scream a pillar. It’s hard to find

⏹️ ▶️ John Simpsons video clips. I wish there was like a clearinghouse for them. But anyway, yeah, scream a pillar. It was fitting.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did you like the Simpsons movie?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t remember, but I thought it was okay. And that was back when I actually watched the Simpsons.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the movie wasn’t better than you know, a good episode

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was the one that was the movie. The one with pinchy. No, that was an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John episode. That

⏹️ ▶️ John was a good one, though. I quote that one a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Pinchy is a good one. All right, I’m really going to bed. And by going to bed, I mean staying up all night. So you guys as you wake

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up all refreshed and happy tomorrow morning, think of me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I can’t even say that naturally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like played like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t because we’ve been there and done that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not only that, but I’m so excited to like not sleep. I will take this problem over any of the problems we were running into

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for three years. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John going to say just as you know, another thing to carry you over like you tried so hard to have this

⏹️ ▶️ John baby and that will help carry you over. The other thing is you what you can look forward to is like, there will

⏹️ ▶️ John come a point. I mean, you’re already kind of at it now, but like eventually you’ll you’ll go back to work. It’ll you’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John become more routine. And I just remember like when, uh, when my first child was

⏹️ ▶️ John like two or three or whatever, I would just be so excited to come home because I knew that’s where

⏹️ ▶️ John my children were. It was like coming home was like Christmas every day. Like you get there and the kids would be there or the one kid would be there. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was seriously, it was like, I would realize that I was at work and I was excited to go home because my kids were there.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. The same way you’d be excited, like go downstairs during it for opening Christmas presents. So So that’s, think

⏹️ ▶️ John about that as a screaming baby in your arms and you’re pacing back

⏹️ ▶️ John and forth.