Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

85: The Unexpected Hard Part

Adaptive apps, iPhone 6 Plus scaling, invisible spreadsheets, marquetry, and proprietary eponyms.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ John This today is a vocabulary day. These will you’ll be quizzed on these at the end of the year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We got a lot of follow up today. Go figure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m shocked and awed that we have so much follow up for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey some. And just made.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And and I let me let me take a wild guess and say that we’re going to spend the first 90

⏹️ ▶️ Marco minutes of the show talking about follow up.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it’s not that long. It’s like it’s not even a page. You’ll see. It’ll be fast. You guys don’t know how to measure follow up. You just see

⏹️ ▶️ John like more than a screen full of text. You oh, lots of follow up. Is there all two second items?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well, we should probably start with the most important piece of follow up that we have,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is most of the Internet coming to the defense of the load bearing finger.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not even in the notes. It is. It’s not at the top of the follow up. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go ahead. No, it’s not. It’s way at the bottom. But it’s really important to me. So I thought I’d bring it to the top.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because you and I were proven right. And John was proven wrong. Right. Right. About what exactly? Well, we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were you were outvoted at least. You were outvoted.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Outvoted about what exactly? about whether you should or should not use the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey load-bearing finger.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the results from people telling us that they use their pinky are inconclusive as to whether people should

⏹️ ▶️ John or should not use their pinky. All we have shown is that many people who emailed us do

⏹️ ▶️ John use their pinky, and that is doesn’t prove anything. Because for all we

⏹️ ▶️ John know, there are many, many more people who don’t use their pinky who didn’t email us. But anyway, the people who do use their pinky wanted

⏹️ ▶️ John to tell us that they did, and so they did. None of which has anything to do with whether you should use your

⏹️ ▶️ John pinky or not or what the what the the the values inherent in using your pinky are is it what

⏹️ ▶️ John is it good for what is it bad

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for all i know is i saw a lot of email feedback

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of twitter feedback a lot of it and it was almost

⏹️ ▶️ Casey universally in support of the armand slash list load

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bearing finger method

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can put yourself first you’re You’re so nice. You talked about it. It was your subject. It’s alphabetical. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yes, a lot of people do use their

⏹️ ▶️ John pinkies. But I don’t think that’s material to our discussion, which was about

⏹️ ▶️ John why you should or shouldn’t use your pinky.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, here’s the thing. The reason you should use your pinky is because even when I reach

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the way far corner of the screen, which when I’m holding the phone in my right hand is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the upper left-hand corner, the most important corner in iOS, because that’s the back button.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say ever since the back gesture in iOS 7 or 6, whenever that was added, 7,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ever since the back gesture became commonplace and default behavior with any kind of navigation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco controller, I would say that is now a lot less important than it used to be.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s true. Yeah, but it better be with the 6 Plus, because forget it. No one’s reaching for the 6 Plus with the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 1A. That’s true. But anyway, so the point is, when I reach for that, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have to pull my fingers from the, again, I’m holding the phone in my right hand.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have to pull my fingers from the left hand edge of the phone to behind the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey phone in order to give me the reach to go to the upper left. But the load-bearing pinky

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still holds strong. With your six, you mean? Yes, that’s correct, with my six. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey load-bearing pinky holds strong, though, and keeps me secure.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not much of a load-bearing. You keep calling it that as if the entire weight of the phone is, uh, is.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey No,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s just because it sounds funny. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, anyway. Yeah, now I’ve done more research with, well, a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John people are sending videos and pictures of them doing stuff or whatever. And I hadn’t noticed this, but many people sent in the video

⏹️ ▶️ John of the, what was it, the old 5 or 5S ad where Apple was trying to defend the fact that they

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t have really big screen phones back when they didn’t have really big screen phones. And it was that

⏹️ ▶️ John ad where they showed that the thumb of this male model in the ad can reach all four corners of

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen. And they say something about, oh, it’s just common sense. See, that’s why we have whatever, What is the

⏹️ ▶️ John four inch screen on the five? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, they were it was this was their like excuse out of why we Don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have a big phone, but in everyone who was asking me I can’t understand how you’re saying to hold the phone I tried to hold

⏹️ ▶️ John that way. I can’t reach anything I just sent them the link to the video because that ad and most of Apple’s video

⏹️ ▶️ John literature shows Hands male adult male model hands

⏹️ ▶️ John Holding the phone the way I was describing more or less and and again and the last year I was talking about why Casey was Holding the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John wrong not why you are holding the phone wrong because if your hand is too small You can’t hold it my way like bottom line right, but Casey’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hands are similar size to mine That’s why it was relevant so a couple people Asked about they’re like oh my hands

⏹️ ▶️ John are too small if your hands are just small you just can’t do it But anyway that ad shows essentially how I hold my phone And I do have

⏹️ ▶️ John one additional piece of information on the phone holding thing I After watching myself use the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John in both my right and left hands what I realized is that I? Use the pinky to move the phone up into

⏹️ ▶️ John typing position because typing you know I can type with that grip some people like I I can’t type by the grip.

⏹️ ▶️ John How do you do it? Well, you can look in the Apple ad. I can do it, that person in the Apple ad can do it. Maybe other people can’t depending on how their thumb

⏹️ ▶️ John bends or whatever, that’s fine. But when I want to do serious one-handed typing, I will hoist the phone up so

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s higher. So I’m coming more from the bottom and that hoisting operation, depending on how I’m doing it,

⏹️ ▶️ John frequently involves me using my pinky to push the phone upward. So I am also in the load-bearing

⏹️ ▶️ John pinky group for brief moments of time when repositioning the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I guess that makes sense. The funny thing about it is, I feel like I’ve gotten, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think Marco as well, have gotten, we’ve gotten a lot of feedback over the course of ATP,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey almost two years now, it’s a year and a half now, a lot of feedback about, oh, you’re wrong because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John says so, or oh, you’re wrong because you don’t agree with John. And finally,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my crowning moment when the internet comes to my defense was about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how I hold my fricking iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I don’t think that people say that wrong because I say it, and they may find my

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey argument more convincing than the other. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John that would be a lousy reason to say that. But so I still contend that all the things I said

⏹️ ▶️ John about the different hold techniques hold true for Casey, whose hands are similar size to mine,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that it is more secure not to hold the thing like it’s sheet music in a music stand. And

⏹️ ▶️ John what most people didn’t understand is the whole thing with my grip is, if suddenly

⏹️ ▶️ John I got jostled or knocked over or whatever, and I immediately gripped with my hand to say, whoa, I’m just about to

⏹️ ▶️ John get knocked over, I better hold onto my phone. What would happen is I would be pressing on the far long edge

⏹️ ▶️ John of the phone and pressing the corner into my palm. That’s essentially the grip. Even if you’re moving your fingers around

⏹️ ▶️ John a bit. And that’s different from the grip where if suddenly you were pressed, what you would end up doing is pinching the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John like you’re pinching like a Hershey’s bar or something. That’s what you get when your fingers are on the back. Or if you’re doing the pinky thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just fewer number of fingers on the back. But, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do depending on the size of your hand.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was trying to come up with a universal theorem of phone grippingness

⏹️ ▶️ John for explaining why people hold it in different ways. And what I started with was from the extreme

⏹️ ▶️ John of, like, if you just put the phone on the table, and then you can’t put any fingers around it at all, and you just take your thumb,

⏹️ ▶️ John then you can reach anywhere on the screen because your thumb is just, it’s free form. You’re not holding it anywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s what you would have to do if you had little tiny minuscule hands. if you were if you’re trying to use a 25 inch iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John you would you would just put it flat on the table and if you’re gonna use it with one hand and you want to use your thumb to do stuff you just

⏹️ ▶️ John move it around like that. As the size of your hand and the size of the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John get closer together like as the phone gets smaller and the size of your hand gets bigger or whichever direction you start to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John to put more portions of your four fingers behind or under the phone if your hand is

⏹️ ▶️ John just barely big enough maybe you can put like four fingers or two fingers behind the phone but the whole rest your hand needs

⏹️ ▶️ John to be out so so you can reach the upper left hand corner, right? As your hand gets bigger and bigger and bigger, you can slide more and

⏹️ ▶️ John more of those four fingers behind the phone and still be able to reach things comfortably. When your hand reaches a certain size,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can fit all of your four fingers and a lot of your hand behind the phone and nestle the corner of it into your palm.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s essentially the hand size I am. And if you keep going up to the Chalk, uh, Chalkenberry, Craig Chalkenberry size,

⏹️ ▶️ John then maybe, I don’t know how, maybe he can fit like the entire, maybe he can fit all four of his fingers in front of the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone and still be able to reach all the corners with his thumb. I don’t know how big his hands are, but that’s essentially the continuum that

⏹️ ▶️ John we could probably do some sort of 3D animation to show the different various grips that are possible but

⏹️ ▶️ John I still strongly endorse Nestling the corner of the phone into your palm so that you can grip

⏹️ ▶️ John it and press it in that direction With all four of your fingers if you can reach all the corners of

⏹️ ▶️ John your phone with your thumb that way and if you can type Comfortably I can type comfortably that way I can hit the home button But

⏹️ ▶️ John like I said when I want to do more serious long typing I will hoist the thing up with my pinky, pinky

⏹️ ▶️ John goes back, and then I type in that position.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I guess that’s fair. I sort of make a subject change. I should note that, you know, another week

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on with having the six, I definitely like it. And I like having a screen that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey big, but I’m picking up one of our five S’s and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it feels to me anyway, so much more comfortable in my hand. I like the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel of it so much more, although I will tell you that this screen looks comically small. Furthermore,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I tweeted about this, but we use a 3GS to run a playlist for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when we’re at a tailgate before a football game. And that thing is like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey positively microscopic compared to the 6. And so it’s tough because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the software side, I like the big screen quite a lot, but physically, and I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this comes back to me being a one-handed user a A lot of the time, I just love the feel that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the size of the five ass so much more than the six. And I’m not sure which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one is more important to me yet. So ask me again in six months.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I think when you, uh, I mean, I still don’t have anything six size yet. And I would imagine that

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe it will never turn around for you, like in terms of the handholding, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like now when you pick up like a three GS and you just like this, the screen is like a postage stamp, even though it’s not that much

⏹️ ▶️ John shorter than the five, it’s, it’s the same width and it’s just a little tiny bit shorter, but it just feels ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think once you get used to the screen, you’ll be like, well, this six still feels too big for however I use my phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I don’t want to go back to looking through that tiny little porthole into the world of iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think you’re right. Now, Marco, did you have your six plus at the time we recorded last week?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, but I had only had it for a few hours at that point. That’s right. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. Are you using it full time by chance or no?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not at the moment. I, for whatever reason, I don’t know why I decided not to.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know what I might do? Maybe next week I’m going to Montreal for the Singleton conference. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll use it like that whole weekend. I’ll just bring that one and see how that goes. Because I do want to spend some time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using it as my primary phone. That’s one of the reasons I got it this way. I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. It’s been

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a crazy development week for me. I didn’t want to make any changes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s fair. But initial impressions, anything different since we last spoke?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really haven’t had a chance to use it much more than that. I have some opinions on the size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco classness of it, the way Apple does iPad style

⏹️ ▶️ Marco width when you hold it in landscape, and it tells the apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically to use an iPad layout in landscape. I’ve been battling that all week with developing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Overcast for it, and I question whether that’s a good idea to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it do that. And actually for Overcast 1.1, the big update I’m working on to make it all adaptive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and universal and everything. For that, I am disabling that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco behavior so that on the 6 plus it’s just gonna show the iPhone interface bigger in landscape.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wondered when they were talking about the size classes, you know, W3C, we all knew bigger things were coming. I just assumed

⏹️ ▶️ John they would add a bunch of new enums or whatever the hell they are for different size classes when the different things came out. But

⏹️ ▶️ John from what I understand, they just kept the same ones. It’s like, you know, the width in portrait

⏹️ ▶️ John mode of any of their phones is all like compact or whatever, even though the difference in size between

⏹️ ▶️ John the width of a 5s and the width of a 6 plus is huge, but they’re both the same. They’re all the same size class. So it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John like they could throw in a few more size class values in there and solve some of these.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you know, it’s it’s a tough balance to walk. So so the way it is right now, so you’re right. Basically, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s just two values for each of horizontal and vertical, regular and compact. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course, there might be, you know, a future large value. Maybe that’s what the iPad Pro, if that thing is real,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will have. But right now there’s regular and compact. And a phone is regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco vertical, compact horizontal. If you rotate it to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco vertical mode, it’s compact in both dimensions, which kind of doesn’t make sense. But if you think about it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in practice, that actually does work very well. And then iPads are regular instead

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of compact in both dimensions, no matter what orientation they’re in. And the weird thing is that the iPhone 6 plus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and only the iPhone 6 plus is regular horizontal compact vertical when it’s in landscape.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s a weird combination that you know that designing for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a landscape iPhone in general is very hard because you know in most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cases if you have like a navigation bar or something you still have the bars taking up a lot of horizontal space and they they get smaller,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s still I mean vertical space rather they get smaller, but it’s still your your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because you’re then rotating the screen the bar still going across the new top you’re wasting a lot more screen real estate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on those bars.

⏹️ ▶️ John Why are you doing a landscape iPhone? Why are you making it rotatable on phones

⏹️ ▶️ John overcast? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a good question. So to date the app is in the store now does not rotate. It’s always portrait only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most people I think will want to keep it that way and enough myself included most of the time. Enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people such that I need to probably add a rotation lock setting because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having an app accidentally rotate when you don’t want it to on your iPhone is annoying. But Apple is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clearly pushing us towards universal apps. An app that has to work on any sized iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and any sized iPad and be able to transition between those sizes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while it’s running on the same device. Now we saw a couple of months ago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our friend Stephen Trout and Smith on Twitter, he posted a video, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty sure it was him, he posted a video, he had hacked the iPhone 8 simulator, or iOS 8

⏹️ ▶️ Marco simulator, while it was running in iPad mode. He had enabled some kind of undocumented

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hidden mode that basically had resizable apps. An app would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco run on the iPad in full screen normally, and then by toggling these modes, it would run

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at two-thirds width and one-third width. And at two-thirds width, it just looks like a smaller iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app. At one-third width, it looks like a tall, skinny iPhone app. It was very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear, you know, Apple had built this functionality in, and whether it will ship this fall, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next week or whenever this iPad event will happen, whether this will ship anytime

⏹️ ▶️ Marco soon, I don’t know. But the functionality is there. I have to imagine, you know, if you read the tea leaves, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reading the tea leaves in in WWDC sessions and the new APIs in iOS 8, it was very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear that they were gonna do different sized devices. I think if you read the tea leaves a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco further, it’s very clear that this is the way they plan to go also in the case of resizable apps.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, they’re gonna do this, I bet. And I don’t know if it’s gonna be this fall. Maybe it might get delayed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco until a later version of iOS, but I’m pretty sure that’s one of the things they plan to do to make the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad cooler, is to have side-by-side apps with either full width, two-thirds

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or one-third. I would imagine your customers, if you make an app that runs on the iPad, I would imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your customers are going to be pretty annoyed if they can side-by-side tile

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of their apps but not your app because it doesn’t support these modes. It’s important, I think, for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco developers to be considering this very strongly right now that if you have an app that runs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the iPad at all, you should probably make your app universal with iPhone and you probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be a debt be doing this adaptive UI migration, you know, using something like a split view to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have it automatically collapse or doing your own thing to automatically collapse it. You need to be doing this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because this is like, it’s so it’s so obvious that this has a very good chance of coming very soon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in iOS. And again, like your customers, if most apps do this, and yours

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t, they’re your customers are going to tell you that Apple does not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem to care about the the difference between your business model. If you have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone only and iPad only as two separate paid apps, Apple does not care about that. They’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been very clearly pushing for a long time into universal apps. And I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you have an app that only runs on the iPad because it just needs the space, for whatever reason, for UI or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then I think you’re okay. You can make do. But for many apps that can run

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on iPhone or iPad and they can resize to any value, anything. I think there’s been a lot of pressure

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from our community, like the Mac nerd community. There’s been a lot of pressure in the past to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have these like perfectly, beautifully, handcrafted interfaces for each different device that you run on.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think that’s, we’ve been seeing that, they’re writing on the wall for that for a while now. iOS

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 7’s redesign helped a lot, just like most of those like perfectly handcrafted custom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interfaces, most of the design patterns of those looked out of date with iOS 7. So making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more flexible layouts already was getting in fashion. But I think we’re seeing a combination

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a bunch of effects happen to really kill those unique interfaces for iPads.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This very likely upcoming resizable apps thing, where if your app does anything beyond

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the basic custom structures, it’s going to be a pain. It’s going to be hard to maintain. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also have generally sagging iPad sales. The iPad is no longer the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco powerhouse platform to make money on for developers that it once was. However, briefly, that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is no longer that thing. I think the iPad now is worth supporting,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it might not necessarily be worth a whole bunch of custom development time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I forget the third thing, but basically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s going to be very important that developers be a little easier on yourself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with with whether like whether you need to make the decision of going universal or not, just do it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple is making that decision for you effectively. You have to be universal. And secondly, I think it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really not worth spending a whole lot of time making a extremely custom iPad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco interface if something simpler would suffice. But anyway, John, to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco answer your actual question of why do I need to support rotation on the iPhone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the small reason is that some customers have asked that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A lot of people say, and there’s some good reasons. A lot of people say that they want to put that they keep their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone in like a mount in their car that keeps it horizontal for some reason. I don’t know why a mount would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do that. For

⏹️ ▶️ John maps, maybe, you know, you like the little flying through Apple Maps thing. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guess, but think of so many like the phone app doesn’t rotate as far as I know. Like there’s a lot of other apps on phones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that don’t rotate. So I don’t know. A lot of people ask for that. The bigger reason why

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is because, you know, Apple is clearly pushing in in this direction of your apps need to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco adaptive, they need to be resizable, they need to be rotatable. They’re pushing in this direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think it’s just easier if I can have an app that works with any combination

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of these size classes, with any combination, or any weird screen size that I might come up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with, that the app will look reasonable. The interface won’t break, things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be usable. It might not look amazing, but it will work. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco supporting every rotation is just one part of that. It’s a required part of that, I think. Also,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the iPad, you kind of have to. And so once you build that, it’s pretty easy to build the other one.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you’re going to have an in-application rotation lock separate from the system one,

⏹️ ▶️ John though?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m probably going to try launching without one and see how big of an issue it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because the whole idea of adding an individual preference in my app so that my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app doesn’t rotate. Yeah, it could

⏹️ ▶️ John be a lot of bug reports from that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s it’s tricky to implement. I think in the code, I don’t know, I haven’t looked yet on how to do it now. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every time Apple rewrites rewrites the way apps handle rotation, which so far has happened three times.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Every time they do that, the way you do this changes and, and how possible it is to do it without weird bugs and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco side effects changes. So I have to see, you know, if it’s like, you know, some kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of bull callback that I can return no from and that’s that’s easy. But if it’s something else, then we’ll see. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s just very clear that if you don’t adapt to this world, it’s going to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difficult for you. And, you know, and Brent Simmons talked a few months back about developer efficiency.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, we’ve been hearing all these stories about how developers like developers like me, you know, people who make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS apps and try to try to sell them on the store are having a harder and harder time making good money from that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and harder and harder time justifying further development. The reality is, and we’ve seen this for many people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the reality is, if you’re an independent developer, chances are you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to need multiple sources of income. And chances are your apps are going to have to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheaper and easier to develop, you can’t afford to be able to spend a year and a half

⏹️ ▶️ Marco making a custom iPad interface for your app anymore. Like that’s, that’s no longer economically responsible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for most developers to do if if you need to make money from it, you know, if it’s if it’s a hobby to do on the side,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine, you can do whatever you want. But But if you know, if you’re trying to make money from an app, you really can’t reasonably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco spend a whole lot of time on custom stuff like that. So like one of my design goals for overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not only to have things you know, work okay, and look okay. It’s also to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use as little code as possible in the UI, like as little as as few custom

⏹️ ▶️ Marco UI hacks as I can, because with Instapaper, I got tied up with all sorts of crazy UI

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hacks to try to try to try to customize things to work exactly as I wanted them to,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was slightly different from the way the system defaults worked, or to or to mimic something that other that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other Apple apps did, that was not exposed publicly in the API, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do things that weren’t possible yet, manually. So things like pagination, or when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wrote the, the grid view before there was a collection view API, stuff like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you know, almost every iOS developer has some kind of story where they’re like, Oh, well, we were having this problem. So we had to rewrite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your navigation controller. It’s like, Oh, no, that’s, you’ve already lost. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you if any part of your development story includes, we had to rewrite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco UI table view controller, UI navigation controller, any of these like major iOS things that are really hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get right, if you do it yourself, chances are, your priorities are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can use improvement. I have the luxury of being by being one person

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and being both the designer and the developer of this app I can edit the design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the implementation of it is going to suck with for development like I can I can say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know what like this the reason why the toolbar is or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what by the mini player is toolbar size because it’s a toolbar because it’s easier to implement that way and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have to do less code the reason why the mini player does not go away when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when there’s nothing to play and it just says something like sync complete is because you can’t dynamically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hide and show that reliably without weird side effects so it’s always there period

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so like like I do things like this because I’ve seen what happens when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you don’t so what happened with instapaper was the code got so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big and bloated because I was doing all these crazy hacks with the view hierarchy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and custom animations and all this all this stuff to get things to look and work exactly right.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It became not only very brittle, but just extremely cumbersome to maintain and very costly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to implement in the first place. It took so much time and effort to do all that stuff that I could have been spending on on on other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco features or improvements to the website or whatever else. So one of my main goals for overcast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been just avoid those big hacks. Like if I can’t do something in a good, reliable way with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the official API’s, usually I just don’t do it. And I’m keeping the code very simple.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So any kind of custom handling of do this on this one device,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or do this when the screen size is less than this value, that all adds a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that complexity that I really would rather avoid. And I think overall, that will serve me better. And I think overall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if more developers do that, it would serve them better.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do you think that’s like a failing of the API? And that like, there’s, there’s a prescribed way to do things with a set of controllers,

⏹️ ▶️ John they sort of pre made for you with a bunch of callbacks that you can override and things that you can set. But

⏹️ ▶️ John if your needs fall outside the bounds of that, for example, your need to say, well, I would like to have a thing that’s down

⏹️ ▶️ John there that’s like a toolbar. Maybe it won’t be exactly the same size. And sometimes I want to hide it. And it’s like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John now you, you know, because that’s the whole thing with frameworks. They constrain you to some degree

⏹️ ▶️ John in that there’s a set of things that they’re trying to lead you towards. But as you diverge from them, you would

⏹️ ▶️ John hope that the framework would work with you and not say, well, now you’re starting something that is that violates

⏹️ ▶️ John too many assumptions of this little particular piece of code that we’ve given you here.

⏹️ ▶️ John And therefore, your only option now is to throw that all away and do it all custom, or like you said, rewrite that thing

⏹️ ▶️ John by subclassing everything and then you’re basically doing your own thing anyway. Ideally,

⏹️ ▶️ John a framework would have a smoother path between, I just want to tweak one thing. This thing you’ve given me does exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John what I want, but I want to tweak things one, two, and three. Or all the way

⏹️ ▶️ John down to, at this point, all this behavior is my own. And you want

⏹️ ▶️ John a smooth gradient between them. You don’t want to hit this point where you’re like, OK, I can tweak, I can tweak, I can tweak. And then you find out you’re just tweaking

⏹️ ▶️ John so much that now you’re just creating a monster, and it’s unmaintainable, and you can’t figure it out. The next version breaks all your crap.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s like, you would like that slope. The ideal framework

⏹️ ▶️ John would never paint you into that corner. You would smoothly move from changing one little property

⏹️ ▶️ John on a canned class to having to defining all of the behavior yourself you know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ideally yeah I mean and and I really have to give UI kit credit it has come

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a long way like many of those hacks I did with instant paper would no longer be necessary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would even say probably most of them

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah Apple is moving along that path like it yeah along the path to I mean tint color and stuff like that things

⏹️ ▶️ John that used to just you know that that’s the next version like oh all those things that you were doing hacks where you don’t need and it’s just like

⏹️ ▶️ John you keep it how long do you continue that. Do they ever get to the point where there actually is a smooth

⏹️ ▶️ John path and there’s never that jump over the canyon where, oh you’ve hacked this thing to bits and now you’re just, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John you are over the line. Like it seems like, you know, if you want to use one of our classes and subclass

⏹️ ▶️ John it, you always get, if you’re going to start overwriting things forever and ever, eventually you get

⏹️ ▶️ John to the point where it’s, where you’re actually making your life harder. Wouldn’t it be easier if you just started from scratch because then you would have understood

⏹️ ▶️ John all the pieces and you wouldn’t be constantly fighting against the behavior you don’t want, you know?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we’ve seen Apple take huge strides

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in that regard to prevent people from having to rewrite everything from scratch. And, you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially since, um, when did they introduce, was it iOS 6 that brought in UI appearance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or was iOS 5? Either way, the appearance proxy stuff has been amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iOS 8 makes a lot of it even better with some of the new presentation controller stuff and this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new like adaptive split view and all this like all the stuff they’re doing, they are adding in those

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hooks. And like every iOS release, adds more of those, like, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new delegate methods that you can override new customizations, you can set, you know, it removes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more and more reasons that you previously might have had to subclass or replace something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think, you know, we’re at a point now, where both the API’s have gotten really good,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that the need for massive, like time sync projects of we need to rewrite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your table view, like things like that, the need for those has gotten so much lower and lower over time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And at the same time that the profitability of handcrafted well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made iOS apps has also gone down dramatically, that I think it’s it’s time to realize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, yeah, all those times where you said you should like rewrite your table view controller,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not. Now granted, I’m a total hypocrite with this, because I rewrote core audio. I mean like this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I rewrote AV player basically.

⏹️ ▶️ John At least you’re getting value out of that. I always think of like Brent being or you know that whole crew

⏹️ ▶️ John over there being somewhat prisoner somewhat prisoner to their own idiosyncrasies in that

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of the hacks Brent seemed like he was doing were because they wanted a particular appearance or transition

⏹️ ▶️ John effect and they could get the same job done it just wouldn’t look the the way they want it to look exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know probably the number of people who are gonna notice the difference between the

⏹️ ▶️ John incredible amount of work they had to do to make some transition just so and what they considered the unacceptable version,

⏹️ ▶️ John that number of people would be very small. Whereas you at least did your cardio stuff because it’s like a headline feature

⏹️ ▶️ John of your application. You can put it on a bullet point on the description. You can describe it to people and they see value in it. Whereas

⏹️ ▶️ John if Brent tried to explain, and again, I don’t know if these details are right, so sorry, Brent, if I’m getting them wrong. If you try to explain,

⏹️ ▶️ John see how this cross fades into that, and that doesn’t start out as white but fades in behind it? That effect was really

⏹️ ▶️ John hard to get. And here’s what I had to do to get it. And they’d be like, huh, what? They don’t care.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you’re not really, the things that you were serving by doing your custom implementation were

⏹️ ▶️ John things that make sense in a business plan. Whereas some people just can’t abide by,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, we’ll get to this if we get to the, if we can ever get to the second item in the follow up. Some people just can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John abide by small aesthetic things most people don’t notice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And to be fair, I think that is part of their business plan. When you have an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app like Vesper, the whole selling point is it’s basically a note-taking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app, but they’ve done it in this extremely custom way where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything is extremely well thought out, and well designed, and well implemented, and everything. That

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is their selling point, to a large degree, because there are so many other

⏹️ ▶️ Marco note-taking apps out there. You know, like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a less compelling selling point than what you can list in your bullet points for like I had to do this This cardio stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John because this feature, you know smart speed everyone can understand it It’s a good feature you press a button

⏹️ ▶️ John like whereas trying to explain to somebody no Yeah, it takes notes, but let me tell you exactly

⏹️ ▶️ John how beautiful and perfect this UI isn’t you’re right. That is their value proposition I just think it’s a more narrow

⏹️ ▶️ John one than yours

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah and I think I would say to like a lot of that works because of who they are in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audience they have I I think one of the problems, like Jared Sinclair with Unread, which actually, I started using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it this week, because Reader, oh, neither of them are updated yet, but I started trying Unread this week, and I actually like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. I’m not quite as fascinated as I was with Reader yet, and I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not sure if I’ll get there, I probably will. I think Unread was a victim of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many problems and shortcomings that happened to it, but also bad defaults.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, there were some settings I didn’t even know existed, and I went digging, I’ve now customized it to be, in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco opinion, much more, much better fit for me. So anyway, if you if you give UnRED a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very quick look before and didn’t give it a second didn’t get didn’t give it much thought, poke around in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the settings and you might be able to set it up the way you like. Anyway, you know, UnRED had was a similar kind of thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like a fairly simple UI with lots of custom work to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have the this like highly polished custom look and feel. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it got a lot of good reviews and everything, but it didn’t sell that well. And I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think that kind of shows that can be a selling point. And for Vesper,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is. And I don’t know how well Vesper sells, but I think it’s safe to say it hasn’t taken over the world yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think you can look at that as a selling point, that handcraftedness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and design and implementation, the combination of all those tiny details as a selling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point. It’s very hard to sell people on that. That’s why I’m advising, like, you know, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have an iPad app, I’m telling you, that kind of stuff is probably not worth doing. There are certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco areas where that will make sense. The App Store three years ago, or more, four years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ago, that would have made more sense because you could make more money off of that crowd. You can make more money off of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that as a selling feature. These days, it’s just so much harder. You have to work so much leaner.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think it’s a good trade-off for most people.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, here’s the flip side of that flip side is the easy flip side that you used to hear more

⏹️ ▶️ John years ago than you do now, which is these Everyone involved here is

⏹️ ▶️ John to some extent probably more in the case of Esper Making the application that they want to make that expresses

⏹️ ▶️ John their values there. They’re making you know The note-taking application that they want to use so

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re expressing their values through their work in the same way when you blog you’re blogging The type of thing that you think you might want to read

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re making the app that you want to make. And so it’s like, I want a note-taking app that’s beautiful in all these ways. And

⏹️ ▶️ John so this is the app that I’m going to make. And that business model of expressing yourself

⏹️ ▶️ John through your work is something, I mean, if you want to talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about like Daring Fireball, the website is the same thing. It’s expressing yourself through your work. And it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John satisfying to do that. And if you’re lucky enough that the things you want to express resonate with other people, then you can get an audience

⏹️ ▶️ John for it. And you, to some degree, are doing that with the audio quality, because you with all your crazy headphones and your amplifiers and everything, care

⏹️ ▶️ John about audio quality. So even though it also is explainable in a business plan,

⏹️ ▶️ John you care about audio. And so it makes sense that you express those values by spending all this time. You started the podcast

⏹️ ▶️ John application as a prototype audio engine. That’s where you began the whole thing. You’re not just going to accept the

⏹️ ▶️ John system. Yeah, and I call it make a system call and it plays audio. You dug into that part of

⏹️ ▶️ John it. And so I think that is also an expression of yourself. You obviously care more about that than you do

⏹️ ▶️ John care about, I really wish the mini player could be seven points higher,

⏹️ ▶️ John so I’m going to write an entirely custom control for it. Because otherwise,

⏹️ ▶️ John it has to be toolbar height.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think maybe an important distinction to make here is, I’ve said

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before when talking about Overcast, even when talking about Instapaper originally,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve said before that a good recipe for an app is to do one really hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing and everything else do it the easy way. So like one really hard thing and a bunch of easy things.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And with Instant Paper, that really hard thing was probably the text parser and or things like that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, like do a very small number of very hard things and then everything else do it the easy way.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I and with Overcast, clearly the audio engine is the hard part.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, and the downloader.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, the downloader. I’m saying I got to rewrite it again. The unexpected hard part. I know. I,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh, I hate the downloader so much. No, I actually spent three hours today figuring out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how to pop up an action menu when you long tap a link in a web view.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I did it. And I even published the code and it’s an FC utilities on GitHub. But oh my god, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was anyway. And that might be an example

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of things not to spend your time on. But what I’m saying is like, you know, with overcast, the hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco part that I invested tons of time in was the was the audio engine, because that gave me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco marketable features that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. That, you know, it’s easy to advertise,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s the kind of feature that people will talk about, and that will get more people to download the app. It’s the kind of feature that will set you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apart from competitors for at least a little while. And that, you know, that has clear direct

⏹️ ▶️ Marco selling value. Whereas if you do a bunch of those hard things in the UI,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or even one giant hard thing in the UI, you’re very unlikely to see that kind of return from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. Like it’s so much easier to get that kind of return. If you’re going to do one or two hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things and a bunch of easy things. Make sure those hard things are like things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that will be result in marketable improvements for your app. But you do

⏹️ ▶️ John care about audio though. Like I mean all the things that even just speeding up and slowing down if you just use whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of the other podcast apps do it like skips around and you just kind of stutters and it doesn’t sound good like you care about audio

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s I don’t say that’s the main reason and you could you could channel that

⏹️ ▶️ John that personal value into oh well also there are these much more rational reasons for doing doing it, but

⏹️ ▶️ John it helps that it’s something that you care about. There are plenty of other things that might also be marketable features that you care less about,

⏹️ ▶️ John or that don’t, or even just making the app that you want. Like think about all the people who want like much more sophisticated storage management,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that doesn’t push your button. So that’s not the, that’s not the application you made, even though it might be

⏹️ ▶️ John just as marketable as a, you know, playback speed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s true. And for a lot of people that is.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So anyway, the expression of your personal values within the application is

⏹️ ▶️ John the sort of silly, like, follow your passion, whatever type of thing. But that can work. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing you can take home from that is don’t make an application that you don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John that doesn’t express any of your values, just because you think that’s what the public wants. Because at least if you fail making an

⏹️ ▶️ John application that expresses some of your values in whatever you picked for the hard part, at least then

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like, well, it was more like a noble endeavor. Whereas if you make an application that you wouldn’t even want to use and nobody buys it, I

⏹️ ▶️ John think that’s a worse outcome.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s true. All right. Now that we are like 40 minutes in, let me give our first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sponsor read in case, you know, no one’s heard me talk enough in the last 30 minutes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our first sponsor this week is our return sponsor. It is Casper. Casper is an online retailer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of premium mattresses for a fraction of the price. Now, Casey, you actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a Casper mattress, and I got a chance to see this when I was there. And I was I was pretty impressed with the quality. What what do you think of it?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it is very nice. We’ve slept on it once or twice because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we got it for a spare bed that really needed a mattress. And it’s really, really nice. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing I like about it is it has that kind of memory foam

⏹️ ▶️ Casey topper, which I’m sure you’ll tell us about in a moment. But I’m not usually a fan of memory foam, and it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of like this… I don’t want to use the word hybrid, but I can’t think of a better one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, they use the word hybrid. It is a hybrid mattress that combines premium latex foam with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco memory foam.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See perfect I couldn’t plan that better. So as a not memory foam kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey guy that was the perfect happy medium between just a straight up mattress and having that little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of extra cushion on top it was it’s delightful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah they call it just the right sink and just the right bounce.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Latex foam and memory foam come together for better nights and brighter days. Yeah it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was really impressed by it you know it felt really cool and and and I like I like like memory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco foam. So they you know, that actually means a lot that I was impressed by this. I really liked it a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, regularly mattresses can cost well over 1500 bucks. You know, if you’ve ever bought a mattress

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like as an adult and bought like a real good mattress, you’re you’re lucky to come out under 1500

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks, you pretty much can’t. Casper is really affordable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s $500 for a twin 750 for full 850 for Queen 950 for King, these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prices, I mean, I would say, you know, for the quality they give, I would say that’s roughly half the price of what you pay with most

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other people, or maybe even less than half. Those are really good prices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The cool thing is, you buy these mattresses online. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you might think it’s kind of weird to buy a mattress online. When I was first asked about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether I wanted to take this spot, I was like, are you sure? A mattress company online? Really? But you know, it turns

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out, they’re really good. And they ship it to you in this relatively small box, kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like crushed up. And then you open it up and it basically explodes into a mattress. Is that roughly right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s the trippiest, but most awesome thing to witness. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is extremely cool. I guess I’m assuming they like vacuum pack the thing. So they give you a little tool

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that lets you open the plastic wrapping that it’s packed in, and you give it about five or 10 minutes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it just like sucks all the air out of the room and into itself and expands.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s very neat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly. This is an obsessively engineered mattress at a shockingly fair price.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the cool thing is, you know, another reason you might be worried about mattress buying online besides

⏹️ ▶️ Marco delivery challenges is they have a risk free trial and return policy. You can try sleeping on a Casper

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mattress for up to 100 days with free delivery and painless returns.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And these also These mattresses are also made in America, which is pretty cool. So definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco check out Casper. Go to slash ATP and use coupon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco code ATP at checkout and you’ll get $50 off. So these prices get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even better. I mean, really, you know, regular price $8.50 for Queen, $9.50 for King. Those are incredible prices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And really, it’s a pretty cool mattress, I gotta say. again, go to Casper dot com, C.A.S.P.E.R.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dot com slash ATP and use coupon code ATP at checkout for 50 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off. Thank you very much to Casper for sponsoring our show. Once again, it is a really great mattress

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at a shockingly fair price.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we are 45 ish minutes in and we’re through one follow up item

⏹️ ▶️ John and one sponsor. I totally blame Marco for that derail because I’m talking about stuff that was not

⏹️ ▶️ John in the follow

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco up. That is totally fair. It’s breaking the format.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been holding it. See, the problem is I’ve been developing, I’ve been coding like a madman all week.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I haven’t blogged at all. All that should have been a blog post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or a few blog posts actually, but I haven’t had time to write it up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it’s just easier to spew it all out at you guys on the show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So accidental build and analyze.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, why don’t you tell us, John, about whether or not the rest

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the world uses NFC?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, there’s enough. I was going to mostly just absorb this feedback, but enough people

⏹️ ▶️ John have sent it that I think it’s worth clarifying in case other people are misunderstanding as well. We keep talking about

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Pay, contactless payment in the UK, various other countries that have ways that you can pay for things

⏹️ ▶️ John by waiving something next to to something, we kept getting feedback saying, you

⏹️ ▶️ John think this is a reason that Apple Pay might not get adopted, but don’t you know that all of these things,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they list out whatever the things are, contactless Apple Pay or whatever the brand name for the thing is in

⏹️ ▶️ John their country, they all use NFC. So the hardware is all there. And I just wanted to clarify that, yes, we

⏹️ ▶️ John know that they all use NFC. If you don’t know they all use NFC, look up NFC on Wikipedia and read

⏹️ ▶️ John all about it. That’s the underlying technology of all these waves something near some other thing. I don’t use

⏹️ ▶️ John RFID, but it’s a very similar type of thing. So yes, we understand the hardware they install very

⏹️ ▶️ John often is the same in all those cases. They all work with NFC. The reason we’re talking about Apple Pay adoption is having

⏹️ ▶️ John the hardware isn’t sufficient. You also need business deals to connect up the parties involved in accepting

⏹️ ▶️ John the tokens that come from the device and validating them and doing all that other stuff. So it’s not like we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John saying that Apple Pay will have a hard time getting adoption because the UK uses different hardware for the contact list. It’s all about

⏹️ ▶️ John business deals, basically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So would you say that the hardware is necessary, but maybe not sufficient?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and that was a question in the beginning. The question was, well, there’s a couple of questions about Apple’s NFC.

⏹️ ▶️ John So building NFC in the phone, the first thing we learned is that Apple is, I think, not providing access to third parties to screw

⏹️ ▶️ John with that NFC hardware in the same way as they can on an Android phone, which is fine, I guess, is typical

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple way of doing stuff. And the second one was, is there anything at all special about the

⏹️ ▶️ John other end of the thing that you have to waive an Apple phone against to use the NFC device. And I think

⏹️ ▶️ John what we’ve learned is that there’s nothing special about it. It’s all about who’s connecting to what on the backend,

⏹️ ▶️ John but the actual point of sale hardware, if it, you know, if it’s NFC and has that little industry

⏹️ ▶️ John standard logo thing, then it’s just a matter of getting the deal set up.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Moving on. Why don’t we talk about the iPhone six

⏹️ ▶️ Casey plus scaling, which is been really grinding some designers gears this week,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as I think Marco alluded to earlier. So what do we know about this?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is not substantiated by anything, because it was posted. I hate when people do this on Twitter, but they do it

⏹️ ▶️ John often. They will post an image of text. They will link to an image of text rather than linking to the source

⏹️ ▶️ John web page or whatever. And so this was a tweet with an image of text. And usually,

⏹️ ▶️ John I figure I can do a Google verbatim search and pick out a unique phrase and find the web page with that text, and I just couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John find this one. I tried a couple of different phrases and could not find whatever this thing was referencing. So who

⏹️ ▶️ John knows? Maybe it was a secret email to somebody. So I don’t even know if this is true, but this gets back to my

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of Discomfort with the scaling in the iPhone 6 plus which I will once again re-emphasize

⏹️ ▶️ John I do not think is a problem for regular people It is only a problem for people who care about these things and we are small in number

⏹️ ▶️ John So anyway for people telling me that it doesn’t matter that this happens. You’re right. It doesn’t matter just matters to me

⏹️ ▶️ John Anyway, without out of the way, here’s another thing that if true is it makes me dislike

⏹️ ▶️ John it even more So the iPhone 6 plus has basically a 1080p

⏹️ ▶️ John resolution like the actual native pixels on the screen And you would think well,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not great because they’re drawing things at 3x Which is much bigger and they scale it down to 1080 and that’s the thing that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John bothering me with the hairline shimmering and stuff Like that, but it’s actually great If you’re watching 1080p video that

⏹️ ▶️ John you might have downloaded onto the device from the iTunes Store or something Hey perfect native screen for that. Not

⏹️ ▶️ John only is it the right aspect ratio, but it is actually exactly the native resolution of the movie

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. But this random image attached to a tweet says

⏹️ ▶️ John that if you do a screen capture during video playback you’ll see that the video is rendered at 2208 by 1242 so the 1080p video

⏹️ ▶️ John is scaled up to the actual off-screen

⏹️ ▶️ John rendered 3x resolution and then scaled back down to 1080 for display purposes. Which is crazy pants

⏹️ ▶️ John if true because you’d hope that in this one instance in full-screen video playback they’d say you know what

⏹️ ▶️ John just decode the video and show it natively on the pixels because everything matches up perfectly. I’ll be sad

⏹️ ▶️ John if this is true and it will make me not like it even more. Oh, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost certainly true. There you know the reasons why what it would take to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to not do that like the the amount of like exceptions and special processing it would take in the hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and software to let the to let the OS output different pixel mapping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for just the video.

⏹️ ▶️ John It just needs to capture just needs to capture the screen like back and I’ve complained of this This is one of my first blog posts ever on the

⏹️ ▶️ John internet complaining about this. Like if you’d launch a Mac game and it wouldn’t use the API to, I think it was called capturing the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. There’s an API that you could call and say, look, I’m taking over the screen. I’m going to screw with the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want any other applications that are currently running to have any idea that I’m screwing with the screen. So all the notifications they would normally

⏹️ ▶️ John get about like, hey, by the way, did you know that the user just changed the resolution of the screen? This is on a Mac I’m talking about.

⏹️ ▶️ John You might want to move your windows around or you might want to adjust something or whatever. I’m going to call the API that says don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John send anybody those things because I’m going to change it to 640 by 480 so I can play Quake or whatever is going on. I do

⏹️ ▶️ John not want you to hose every single window on the screen. And you know me, games that didn’t do that, you’d launch

⏹️ ▶️ John them, it would change your screen resolution, destroy all your window placements, and I would just be incredibly angry because there’s no undo for

⏹️ ▶️ John that operation. And it’s like you just have to call one API. So anyway, on the phone, if they had

⏹️ ▶️ John a cell, and this is on OS X I’m talking about, something related to those APIs somewhere in there that you could,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, capture the display device essentially, change the output resolution while you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in full screen playback and then just do your full screen playback in that way.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, but then what happens when you tap the screen to show the

⏹️ ▶️ John bars? It’s got it has to uncapture, you know, has to do

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the whole the same

⏹️ ▶️ John thing would happen if you all tabbed on OS 10. And this is we have the technology to do this. You’re right. It’s a little bit more of a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hassle, but it has always sucked whenever anything has ever done it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, you can do it like the Mac games that did it. Well, it was fine. Like you would all tab and you’d see the

⏹️ ▶️ John old tab menu at the resolution that the game had changed into. But then when it switched to the other app, it would go back to the other

⏹️ ▶️ John res and none of the other apps would have any idea that the game was running in different resolutions. Sometimes they’d even show the game

⏹️ ▶️ John in a little window. You know, it wouldn’t — the full screen thing would go into a window at whatever the native resolution of the — anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is all probably weird in iOS and it’s probably much more straightforward to do it, you know, in a straightforward way,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it, like, that’s, that’s really a shame, don’t you think? Like, taking 1080p, scaling it up and shrinking it back down, you’re just,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re just losing data and, I mean, smudge — and again, no one will notice this. I totally

⏹️ ▶️ John agree that you will never be able to see this with your naked eye. It’s all my head.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s exactly the thing. Like, academically, if you think about it as a geek like us,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything that the 6 Plus does is gross and weird with the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it scales the screen. Like, it is rendering at not the right size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and scaling it down to the right size. And, by the way, the right size is at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a weird DPI of 3x. Like, all of that is gross to people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like us. The The reason why it works is because you don’t notice. Yes, I know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as I said last time, if you scroll table view very slowly and look at the borders, you can probably see them shimmering.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, that is visible when you’re looking for it. No, you don’t see it in real life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think, you know, thinking about what this would require to make this exception for 1080p video.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, how many people even watch 1080p video on their phones?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, isn’t that what iTunes, that’s what iTunes serves up these days, isn’t it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, if you’re streaming it, maybe. If you’re streaming it over a very good connection in an app that will actually serve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that to a phone, maybe.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, I mean, if you buy a movie from iTunes, don’t you get 1080 these days? You do, but isn’t it like four gigs?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you download it onto your phone. I don’t know what they send to phones. They could be sending a down-res

⏹️ ▶️ John version of the thing. I mean, YouTube plays 1080 for crying out loud on the desktop anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if it still does. iTunes used to, when you’d buy a 1080 movie, it would download two versions. download like a 1080 version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like a lower, I don’t know whether it was 720 or something even lower than that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mostly for putting on iPods and iPhones. And anyway, it doesn’t really matter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the number of people who will watch actual 1080p video files or streaming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video on their iPhone is probably pretty low. I think most of the time people watching video on phones are seeing lower

⏹️ ▶️ Marco resolutions than that. And then secondly, for the people who are seeing 1080p

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video on their phone, I think the chances that they would ever notice anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wrong with the scaling, you know, any artifacts from that notice any extra blurriness or pixelation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from that. I think the chances of that are so incredibly low that it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco definitely not worth what would probably be some pretty big complexity required to get that feature

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to work.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, see, we don’t even know if this is what they’re actually doing. So for all we know, they already are doing the more complex thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s mostly a shame in 1080 because it’s such a perfect fit but in 720 it might actually be more noticeable have

⏹️ ▶️ John more of a chance of noticing because it’s got to go from 720 all the way up to 2208 by 1242 and then back down

⏹️ ▶️ John to you know 1080p so it’s a strange transition.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Good real-time follow-up from the chat from Nathan how about 1080p video

⏹️ ▶️ Marco taken with the phone’s camera?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John There you go.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that’s that’s a very good point that is that is probably the most common source of 1080p video on the phone is from the camera that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a very good point I didn’t think of that. I think it that the it still holds that most people would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not notice the difference between these two rendering modes and therefore I really don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would question honestly whether anybody could tell the difference like if they could set it up as like a blind test and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do it both

⏹️ ▶️ John ways the shimmering hairlines you can’t see and the one the one we kept getting feedback about was like I can’t notice that anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ John except for the battery indicator because the battery indicator is on on the screen so much of the time in iOS and because

⏹️ ▶️ John people are so familiar with the way it looks in iOS 7 on their other you know retina iOS devices.

⏹️ ▶️ John People regular. All right. They’re not regular, but they’re slightly closer to regular people can

⏹️ ▶️ John pick it up in the battery indicator. Regular people still don’t care. But the reason I bring this up again

⏹️ ▶️ John is because I was thinking back to the keynote when they introduced the and I know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not a keynote. We got feedback about that. It’s only a keynote when you’re setting the tone for a week of conferences. This was not a keynote. This is a

⏹️ ▶️ John pressing, but we called a keynote. The application is called

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey my goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ John We will continue to use the idiomatic definition of keynote, when in the context of Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, we mean a speech where Apple executives introduce products. Anyway, where

⏹️ ▶️ John they made a specific point of talking about the desktop quality hardware scaler.

⏹️ ▶️ John And at the time, that seemed weird, because like why emphasize that? But it’s kind of like, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not exactly like so. Please don’t send me emails telling me this analogy is not apt, because I already know it’s not. But it

⏹️ ▶️ John reminded me of the narrative device of Hang lantern on it where if you’ve got a

⏹️ ▶️ John plot point in a story that doesn’t make any sense, rather than trying to figure out a way

⏹️ ▶️ John to make it make sense, you just have one of the characters in the scene point out the thing that doesn’t make sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, you know, the audience can go, hey, that doesn’t make any sense, but if you have a character on screen say, that’s impossible, that can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John be happening, then that makes it okay. Well, this is kind of like, they knew they had a device that

⏹️ ▶️ John was a weird compromise with the 3x scaled down to fit the screen, and they’re trying trying to turn a weakness

⏹️ ▶️ John into a strength by explicitly bragging about the thing they have that makes this hack possible, which is their

⏹️ ▶️ John desktop quality scaler or whatever, and by- by hanging a lantern on it,

⏹️ ▶️ John by basically having the person on the stage say the thing that the nerds might be thinking, it would- oh, actually- actually

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s something cool about this thing, that- that this scaler they have a, you know, no one has ever thought of scaler, which

⏹️ ▶️ John is probably just, you know, it’s more hardware in the GPU. GPUs scale things really fast anyway. I don’t even-

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think this is any dedicated hardware. People can correct me if I’m wrong. But anyway, the point the fact that they’re pointing it out

⏹️ ▶️ John is Kind of an admission that they’re not particularly happy with this whole scaling thing either But they’re trying to spin it

⏹️ ▶️ John as something good and this all gets back to The mystery that we still have of what’s the deal with

⏹️ ▶️ John this? Did they plan to do a native 3x screening couldn’t do it or did they always plan to do it this way?

⏹️ ▶️ John and We don’t know the answer that I’ve got conflicting feedback from two separate completely

⏹️ ▶️ John unreliable, you know sources saying saying they totally plan to do a native

⏹️ ▶️ John 3x screen and they just couldn’t do it because of availability and stuff and other feedback saying the exact

⏹️ ▶️ John opposite that they always plan to do it this way and it’s not because they couldn’t do native 3x

⏹️ ▶️ John so I don’t know what to think all I know is that it bothers me and yes it will probably not bother almost anyone

⏹️ ▶️ John else in the world

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure they won’t mind. Check out R A Z l a b s dot com. If you

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco to those places to learn about any open opportunities they have, they’re always looking for great people looking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for senior level people and junior level people. They’re they’re really great to work for and

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco sponsoring our show once again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, so we’re still talking about iPhones that can bend. That’s still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a thing. I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, there’s been more action on the Internet about it. Consumer Reports did a bending test using actual equipment

⏹️ ▶️ John for bending. Although I just read the Consumer Reports thing that’s linked to there, and

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m glad that they took out the little three-point bending machine and measured the force with a bunch of different phones, because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John more or less what I was asking for. But I didn’t see a bunch of tables showing all the results. But what that basically came

⏹️ ▶️ John down to is, there are some phones that are stronger than the iPhone 6 Plus, there are some

⏹️ ▶️ John phones that are weaker. The 6 Plus I think actually did better than the plain old 6. It

⏹️ ▶️ John was enough to sort of kind of say with more confidence that

⏹️ ▶️ John this is not really much of a story because the 6 and 6 Plus are not

⏹️ ▶️ John appreciably, they’re not the bottom of the barrel, they’re not weaker than all the other phones that are out there, they’re not stronger

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re kind of in the mid-pack. But as usual, Dr. Drang had some more interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John posts in and around this topic. They got, I mean, people should just give the phones to him because he can

⏹️ ▶️ John run the tests and give us real results. They got closer to the heart of the matter because force

⏹️ ▶️ John applied to the phones, like to break them, like at what point did the phone break or bend or whatever, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John as important as some other more subtler things like

⏹️ ▶️ John how much force do you have to apply before there is measurable permanent deformation?

⏹️ ▶️ John Because that seems to be happening to a lot of people’s phones. Maybe people care about that. It’s like, okay, well, we figured out for breaking,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the iPhone 6 and 6 plus are kind of mid-pack because they pressed all the phones until they broke,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But there may be many forces that a plastic phone can tolerate

⏹️ ▶️ John and spring back from right back into its full normal shape they would permanently deform

⏹️ ▶️ John an iPhone because it’s made of aluminum. And the the

⏹️ ▶️ John other factor in that they could have delved into more was how much

⏹️ ▶️ John force is typically applied to a phone based on the size. So if you have a really long

⏹️ ▶️ John skinny phone you can get more leverage and apply more force to it. I don’t know how they would measure this one but this

⏹️ ▶️ John is also a factor like saying that the the 6 Plus did better than the 6 in the force test, but

⏹️ ▶️ John what are the expected forces in the front pocket of someone’s pants of a taller phone versus a

⏹️ ▶️ John shorter phone? Like the machines are applying measurable force to each thing, but you don’t know, like, when I put this

⏹️ ▶️ John in my pocket, is the 6 Plus going to experience much more force because it’s longer and there’s more leverage?

⏹️ ▶️ John And so even though the 6 is technically weaker, it takes much stranger moves with your leg or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John to apply that force to the thing. So anyway, I’m pretty convinced

⏹️ ▶️ John that the 6 and 6 Plus are material wise not

⏹️ ▶️ John any weaker substantially than any other phones. But because the 6 Plus is taller, I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the likelihood that forces will be applied to the 6 Plus

⏹️ ▶️ John that are much harder to apply to the shorter phones is high. And so I think we’ll still see lots

⏹️ ▶️ John of, and because aluminum doesn’t spring back like plastic does, I still think we’ll see this story ongoing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I saw a tweet from somebody whose Last name is Swearingen, which I think is great.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re a fan of the show whose name escapes me now, come on, you two are

⏹️ ▶️ John useless. Is it Deadwood? Yes, there you go, Deadwood. Jeremy Swearingen. How did I know that?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a very popular show. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t even watch that show. It’s a good show, you should. I got through the first episode and didn’t like it, so I stopped. A lot of cursing.

⏹️ ▶️ John You should try it, it gets better. Then it ends too soon, so it’s sad, so maybe you shouldn’t watch it. It’s kind of like Firefly Casey. Hey, a show you know.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do know that show. Yeah, so he said he bent his iPhone 6

⏹️ ▶️ John and kept it in his back pocket and it never felt tight and posted pictures of it and

⏹️ ▶️ John these are slight bends. I mean if you search you can find tons of pictures of bent iPhone 5s and everything as well too which is

⏹️ ▶️ John why I think this is just you know the the media machine making these things more visible is one

⏹️ ▶️ John issue. The second issue is that if you make phones out of aluminum people keep them in their pockets.

⏹️ ▶️ John Aluminum can accept amounts of force that do not break the phone but nevertheless the phone does not spring back from

⏹️ ▶️ John and then you have a slightly bent phone. Do you care about that? Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you don’t notice. Maybe people are running

⏹️ ▶️ John around with slightly bent iPhone 5s now and have no idea until they like put it on a table and like look at it from the side really carefully and

⏹️ ▶️ John say, you know what, this is a little bit bent. So anyway, this continues

⏹️ ▶️ John to go on. I think we can expect to see more stories about it, but I’m much more chill about it now than I was before, except for in

⏹️ ▶️ John the case of the Plus, where I think the outstanding issue is that it’s plenty sturdy, plenty strong,

⏹️ ▶️ John but because it is a larger phone, there is a potential for higher forces to be applied to it because of the leverage you get between

⏹️ ▶️ John the edges. between the edges and the middle of the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a little odd to me that aluminum was the choice of metal. Well, it is, but it isn’t. I mean, aluminum

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is soft. And I know other harder metals are a lot more expensive. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is where Dr. Drang is ripping his hair out. But I don’t know. It just seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like an interesting choice. It’s something that’s lightweight, though. I know. And that’s the obvious answer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s also all sorts of other properties, too, that might be desirable, like the way it dents or shatters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or doesn’t dent or doesn’t shatter. Oh, that’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John good point. And it’s plenty strong. I mean, they make cars out of aluminum, too. Like, you just have to apply

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Like, this is what I was getting at if you made it a little bit bigger. It’s not just so you could fit more battery, but you could put, you know, like the

⏹️ ▶️ John little side impact beams, like strengthening things, make certain parts of it thicker and stuff like that. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think you need to do it with the smaller sizes. And maybe even with the bigger one, it’s not an issue. But

⏹️ ▶️ John again, we need someone with, I don’t know how you do the scientific test of forces

⏹️ ▶️ John that might be applied to a phone in a pocket. But that, I think, is the open question. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John this increased awareness is kind of like the medical student’s disease, where once you know all the things that can go wrong with your

⏹️ ▶️ John body, suddenly you think all of them are happening to you, right? And you become a hypochondriac temporarily. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John now that everyone knows that bending phones is a thing, like everyone should take

⏹️ ▶️ John their fives and five S’s and put them all on the table and see if they’re slightly cupped.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Looking forward to that. I’m going to get right on that. Yeah, I don’t know what I would do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with that.

⏹️ ▶️ John You joke about it, but I bet you will. you use this plus for a couple weeks, you will find yourself inevitably

⏹️ ▶️ John saying you know, I wonder if I have added a slight bend and you’ll look you can’t help yourself you’ll look

⏹️ ▶️ John not that you’ll care if you see oh you know it is a bend like whatever like you’ll go back to your life but it’s it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John impossible not to check if you’re into this type of thing just just out of curiosity.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If this really does happen to you where you’re we’re six or six plus bends. I bet if you take it to the genius

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bar, you know, unless it looks like your phone was run over by a car, I bet they’ll you know, they’ll probably replace for you.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, this is like the high pitch noise from my SE30. If you come in with a phone that like looks perfect, but you say,

⏹️ ▶️ John but, but hey, watch if you put it on the table and the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco table is

⏹️ ▶️ John perfectly flat and you shine a light, you can see a little light peeking through the middle, but the edges like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey then you’ll seem

⏹️ ▶️ John like a crazy person like I did when I said that my power supply made a high pitch wine on my SE30, but it totally did.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco with your website.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, tell me about the iPod Touch. It

⏹️ ▶️ John still exists? I was just wondering, like, you know, I use an iPod Touch. of a few people do except for

⏹️ ▶️ John kids, right? I wonder if the people who want small,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, who want iPhone 5 size things will become the new iPod touch people. Like, there’s a group of people

⏹️ ▶️ John who want that, definitely, but that most other people don’t and don’t understand that desire and don’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ John it. And when the small phone people are marginalized, they’ll be sad, but everyone else will just be like,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, whatever, and Apple and the rest of the industry will move on to big giant phones, and you’ll complain about

⏹️ ▶️ John the iPhone 6 being too big for you the same way I complain about the iPod Touch not getting updated?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Possibly, and I’m on the verge of being one of those people. I did get a lot of, and I think a lot of this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey came to you guys as well, got a lot of feedback about how perhaps the 6 is a little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too big. And a lot is relative. It was a lot more than I expected,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is I think what I’m trying to say. And a lot of people came out of the woodwork to say, you know what, I agree with you. The 6 is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey too big, and I really miss my 5S. And a couple of people even emailed or tweeted to say, I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey returned my six and bought a five S. Presumably these are people who were on the five previously.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they didn’t like the size so much that they actually went to a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey year old product because they felt like it was a better fit for them. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s certainly possible that I that you will get an iPhone and then I’ll be the idiot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s lamenting the days when we used to have, you know, four inch phones and how much better that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was. It’s like you lament the days when the iPod… well, no, the iPod Touch has never really been updated, so never mind.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was the fastest iOS device at one time. When I got my first iPod Touch, it was faster than the iPhone. Those were

⏹️ ▶️ John the days. Or weeks. Or months.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You sound like me with my Subaru. When I bought my Subaru Legacy, it was quicker than the WRX at the time, and that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lasted like a year. But man, that was a good year. Tell me about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wood inlays.

⏹️ ▶️ John I love that we have follow-up about this. I love that we have follow up about this. That was a question I asked the chat room and you

⏹️ ▶️ John guys last time, and we got bad answers. What is that? We were talking about the, what do you call it, antenna lines on

⏹️ ▶️ John the back of the 6 and how the antenna lines are ugly, but they tried

⏹️ ▶️ John to give them some aesthetic interest by making them so beautifully flushed with

⏹️ ▶️ John the back of the device. And I was saying, I hope they stayed that way, because that is their main and possibly only redeeming

⏹️ ▶️ John aesthetic value, is the precision with which they’re made. And I said it was like that wood inlay thing where you

⏹️ ▶️ John make these intricate designs by fitting pieces of wood all next to each other. It looks like one big flat surface. And I asked what that was called,

⏹️ ▶️ John and nobody knew. It’s called marquetry. Steven Syrek

⏹️ ▶️ John gave us that answer. We will link to the Wikipedia page. Marquetry, it’s cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. All right. And speaking of interesting words. Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ John we went to another word we asked for. This might have gone by in the chat room, and I just missed it. and

⏹️ ▶️ John Q-tips and all those other things that are actually product names but that have become placeholders for the entire category

⏹️ ▶️ John of device that’s called a proprietary eponym. So there you go. This is

⏹️ ▶️ John a vocabulary day. You’ll be quizzed on these at the end of the year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, do you also feel better knowing these pieces of vocabulary that I’ve already forgotten?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t even, I’ve already forgotten even how many we’ve learned.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m going to forget, proprietary eponym, I can say right now, I’m probably going to forget that one, but marketry I’ll probably remember.

⏹️ ▶️ John the less useful one I’ll remember.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so we are in roughly an hour and a quarter into the show. Is there any

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other follow up that you’d like to do before we start the show? Please no. We’re going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to start the show. We’re just going to go straight to the post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco show. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week. Casper, Squarespace and Rays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Labs. And we will see you next week. Oh, before I forget our friend Jonathan Mann, who wrote

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our theme song and who’s generally awesome, The Song of Day Man. He has a Kickstarter project

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called the Harry Potter EP and he asked me to see if I can give it a quick mention

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the show because he’s running out of time and he really wants to make this. He’s only asking for a few thousand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dollars. It’s a very very easy ask. He recorded five songs about Harry Potter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and he basically wants to make them into like full productions with like the rest of the band like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know hire a drummer to record for the session and everything else and make an EP. You can get it for just five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks go to and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ll put a link in the show notes as well. So thanks to Jonathan and we will see you next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, accidental, accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn’t let him, cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. It was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show notes at And if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John into Twitter, And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow

⏹️ ▶️ John them at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S. So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey B-N-T, Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Syracuse. It’s accidental. They didn’t mean to.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Accidental. Tech podcasts so long.

⏹️ ▶️ John In the tradition of continuing follow up into the after show. Oh my god.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wait, is that a tradition? Have we

⏹️ ▶️ John established this? No, we’re doing it now, yeah. The invisible spreadsheet thing. I got a lot of comments on that. Didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John I talk about this? The reason, the last show that was in the show I heard it right yeah, but I was referring

⏹️ ▶️ John back to a conversation in past shows where this was originally brought up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well I believe you were referring back to something you Something you had quickly stated in another

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the after show so it was it was a callback to an after show Throwaway line

⏹️ ▶️ John did it stay it did it stay in the edit though. Did you leave that in it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did? Oh, I would not have taken that out

⏹️ ▶️ John People have bad memories because lots of people sending or sending feedback about the invisible spreadsheet as if the first time I said it was

⏹️ ▶️ John in the past episode but I was referring back to something that I had said in the past. Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right so now we have follow-up on your previous joke about the after show that you had said before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and the after show.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not a joke Casey. I just called you Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s fine. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco alright I watch, I touch yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Casey. Apple phone. Anyway it’s not a joke. Oh my god.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t even know what to do right

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John now. Are we done?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I think that’s it. We are so done.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We are so done. Holy hell. Oh!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh! Oh! Oh! I completely forgot. How’s the review?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah! Because the GM came out. This is like crunch time, right? Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I went through it all and had to change some screenshots. It was good going through it all. Like I saved, I had taken all my screenshots

⏹️ ▶️ John already. So after doing this long enough, I’m trying to get a feel for like, when do I feel like the graphics

⏹️ ▶️ John are locked down and the UI locked down? And you have to pick something. So I think I picked the right build to do all my screenshots

⏹️ ▶️ John in. Things did change. I took the GM as my chance to go back through

⏹️ ▶️ John all my screenshots and diff them all, essentially, to make sure. And I found some ones that were really

⏹️ ▶️ John old that actually, if I had retaken them for the build, I took some screenshots early and then was sad because

⏹️ ▶️ John everything kept changing. I stopped. And then I took all my screenshots later but didn’t retake the ones I had taken earlier. So anyway, I

⏹️ ▶️ John had to do some replacement and some fixing and all that other stuff. I would really like a release

⏹️ ▶️ John date. That would be nice, don’t you think? It really helps with the whole lead time on getting

⏹️ ▶️ John books into stores and stuff like that. But I’m adding a few tiny little

⏹️ ▶️ John things to the end, where you just throw in two sentences on some new little feature and throw

⏹️ ▶️ John in a screenshot or whatever. And after that, I feel like I’ll be done. And I can start. I mean, I’ve already

⏹️ ▶️ John started the production process of trying the ebook stuff in, checking to find out that

⏹️ ▶️ John still the iOS version of the Kindle app doesn’t read the KF8 format, which just blows my mind,

⏹️ ▶️ John but whatever. Yeah, hacking up my terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John Perl scripts that make these ebooks, making them even more disgusting. Is there any other kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John Perl script? There is. I’m at the point now, like if this is my last review,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just over the line of like, you know, with the sloppy, lazy programming type thing, like, well, this is a throwaway thing, I gotta do it

⏹️ ▶️ John once I’ll just write a crappy no big deal right but at a certain point if you use it a certain Number of times you would have been

⏹️ ▶️ John your time would have been better spent in making like a real version of it in the beginning Right, I think I’m just crossing

⏹️ ▶️ John that line now I’m like, okay now I’ve used this enough times that if I just written it right the first

⏹️ ▶️ John time I would have saved time in the long run, but it’s way too late to write it the right way this time So I’m just caring

⏹️ ▶️ John even less and just hacking it up and making it work. So if this is the last time this

⏹️ ▶️ John will be a sad goodbye to my so-called ebook production system.

⏹️ ▶️ John And every year there’s differences. It’s gonna be a slightly different presentation on the RS website and some slightly different

⏹️ ▶️ John features I have them add to the CMS for my review and blah blah blah. But I would like a release

⏹️ ▶️ John date I could still get caught on my heels if they release a thing tomorrow or Tuesday or any other if they

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t give me you know several days notice to get this book built and you know get the review

⏹️ ▶️ John edited and copy edited then because you can’t build the book until everything’s edited and copy edited, then you build the book, then you

⏹️ ▶️ John submit the books to the store, then they come out available. Anyway, it’ll probably be okay. I just want it to be over.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you don’t have any little birdies telling you even a theoretical release date?

⏹️ ▶️ John Nobody tells me anything. I mean, nobody tells anyone anything. They probably don’t even know what the release date

⏹️ ▶️ John is. They’ll decide when they decide, and we’ll all find out together, and I just hope there’s some lead time. But they don’t care about

⏹️ ▶️ John ebook production when they’re picking their release dates. You can build apps with the Xcode

⏹️ ▶️ John GM seed and submit them to the Mac App Store, So in theory, they could release the thing tomorrow.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I would say I mean, we haven’t heard anything about like another press event happening for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new iPads and maybe some fall. I’m a Breton of maybe happening and and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yosemite, like that’s all going to be probably announced some kind of press event sometime this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco month. But we haven’t even heard of that yet. And usually they announce them at least a week ahead of time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no reason Yosemite has to be tied to that. Like even if they have even if they have written IMAX being announced

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing you like you release the O’Samody or the hell you feel like it like hold it

⏹️ ▶️ John It for the event hold until after the event like because the IMAX aren’t gonna ship like the next day, right? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John unlike the and this has been a topic of conversation in various blogs like unlike iOS

⏹️ ▶️ John OS 10 does not seem to be tied to some Gotta ship gotta gotta put it out there

⏹️ ▶️ John make or break the company product like the iPhone where it’s like the new iPhones are coming They’re going to have iOS 8 when the phones are ready.

⏹️ ▶️ John The OS better be ready when the OS is ready. You know, hopefully the phones are ready. There’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John tie like that for Yosemite. So, you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey why it’s not out yet.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re like, we’ll get around to you. So it’s good. Like it gives them more time to work out bugs and all that other

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff. But it also means that I have no idea when it’s coming out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So sitting here now last time.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it feels like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, yeah, I’m I’m sad to hear. I’m not surprised, but I am sad to hear that. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think when when 10 dot 11 or whatever gets released and there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a Syracuse review to read, it is it is going to feel like we’re missing something big.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll talk if I mean, I still have a year to make this. Right. So I’m not, you know, I’m not committing to anything now or whatever. Just I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John saying that’s what it feels like now. But if I do make the decision, I will

⏹️ ▶️ John probably write up something explaining my reasoning and certainly will explain it on here. There are plenty of

⏹️ ▶️ John plenty of good reasons to to not do it. But like, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have to decide this until many months from now, and I probably won’t. So there we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go. You know, if the choice is between you continuing to do the review and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still whining about the iPod touch or getting an iPhone and not doing the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey review, I’m happy for you to continue whining about your iPod touch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Independent decisions. There is no connection between those two things.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m just making sure just in case.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’m still I’m still thinking that I’m waiting for the October event to see what’s happening. The iPod touches and even if

⏹️ ▶️ John there are iPod that is, I might still get an iPhone. So things iPhone chances are looking pretty good.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still don’t have the case issue solved, and I’ll have to look at what the iPod that just like to make a final decision.

⏹️ ▶️ John But.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m still not in love with the Apple leather case, but I really I feel like the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing is too slippery. if I don’t have a case on it and I’m too much for clots

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway. I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you guys didn’t bring that up in the iPhone gripping section. All the people complain, oh you said you drop your,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey your, oh, that’s true. I’d forgotten about that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no, but like, uh, you, you’re wise not to bring it up because then I drop it. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John you can tell me when do you guys, if you have ever dropped an iOS device, when does that happen? Does it happen when you’re holding it and typing

⏹️ ▶️ John it? Not for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, it’s been when I’m swinging my arm around like a crazy person like walking or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Mine always does it when I’m going into or out of the pocket because if you miss the pocket going in, that’s a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re trying to take it out of a pocket in a hurry and like it’s a tight pocket and you’re trying to grip it like or it’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John a loose pocket in your jacket, you’re trying to pull it out into and out of pocket or being picked up or put down

⏹️ ▶️ John on on some like shelf or some other thing where you don’t pay enough attention. You don’t quite put it all the way on the shelf or you try to take it off and

⏹️ ▶️ John you slide it to the edge but you slide it right off. That’s where my poor iPod Touch has done many tumbles, not when

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m holding it in my hand. So the grip and me dropping it are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not related to each other. Yeah. So I’ve run into edge. Like I will hold it in my hand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I am not using it. I’m just holding it for whatever reason. It’s not in my pocket. And I’ll like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be walking and swinging my arms as one normally does when you walk. But apparently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I kind of flail or something when I walk. And so a lot of times I’ll like clip an edge

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a door frame for example or something like that. That’s brutal. Yeah. But I mean that’s why I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a case.

⏹️ ▶️ John Have you have either one of you ever broken a screen on an iOS device ever?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. I refuse to answer that.

⏹️ ▶️ John So Casey has. I haven’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No I actually I refuse to answer because I know as soon as I say no I haven’t I’m going to break it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. You know there’s some people like you can there’s people in your that you know like there are phone there

⏹️ ▶️ John are screen breakers and non screen breakers like it’s because if someone has has ever broken

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen on their iPhone, chances are high that they’ve done it more than once if they had an iPhone for years. Whereas

⏹️ ▶️ John people who have never done it just have these clean screens. And it’s just difference in habits and handling, I think. Because you can’t just toss

⏹️ ▶️ John it up to chance. It feels like people go into two bins there. And it’s mostly people who are

⏹️ ▶️ John obsessively careful with their little things and don’t want it to be scratched and they’re babying it. Or they’re more likely not to drop

⏹️ ▶️ John it than the people who just treat it like it’s supposed to be treated. And every once in a while, they break. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I haven’t broken one yet. I’ve put some small dents,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but big enough dents that they’re noticeable in both my iPads and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my iPhones, although not the 6 yet. But I’ve never, not yet, have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I shattered a screen. And I know it’s only a matter of time.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think the worst thing I’ve done to an iOS device was the first time I brought my iPad 3 to WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John and I had it in my backpack. And I had it in like a little paddy case thing, but my backpack didn’t have a lot of padding

⏹️ ▶️ John at the bottom. put my backpack down like in front of me you know sitting down in the seat

⏹️ ▶️ John I must have bumped to the corner of the iPad and if you look at it really really closely you can see the aluminum

⏹️ ▶️ John is slightly dented in on one of the corners Only I would notice this, but that’s the

⏹️ ▶️ John worst I’ve done to an iOS device so far.