82: The Flash Storage Is Adequate11 Sep 2014
Our iPhone 6/6+, Apple Pay, and Apple Watch spectacular.
- Marco and John get excited about a monitor
- Sexism epiphanies
- TiVo Mega
- Macworld layoffs
- iPhone 6/Apple Watch Event
- iPhone 6 & 6+
- Special guest appearance by Tiffany Arment
- Apple Watch
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⏹️ ▶️ John All right, stop downloading stuff during the podcast.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Not only am I downloading Songs of Innocence, but I’m also downloading the 1080 keynote as well.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Maybe don’t do that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Like 6.8 gigs.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I already hear your MacBook Pro
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco fan. Do you not hear that?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can hear it. Mine was downloading at 5
⏹️ ▶️ John a second, but my Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t get any louder.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, kiss my butt.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, kiss my butt. This
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is going to be a really depressing episode because not only do we have to talk about some of the news
⏹️ ▶️ Casey from today, but we have to talk about a silly monitor. Is
⏹️ ▶️ John it silly? It’s silly. That’s silly. It is that monitor long promised.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is so, so every time we’ve talked about desktop retina, and every time I’ve written about TestDoc
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Parenta on my site. The topic always comes up of sometime in the distant
⏹️ ▶️ Marco future what we actually want is two times the current 27
⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch resolution which would be 5120 by 2880. Do you remember what I called it? I don’t like
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. Well it’s technically four times but. Yes it’s the quad 27 inch. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ John back when we were talking about when are we going to get a Mac Pro, when are we going to get it, I said I really want to wait for the quad 27 inch monitor.
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m still waiting because this is from Dell. Well,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah, so anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so we were saying that this month like I was under the assumption because there are multiple problems at this number one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is That’s just so many pixels It’s such a density that like like Dell was just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco able to ship 4k ones at a reasonable price at 24 inches Which is it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco roughly the same density at 24 inches they were just able to ship those like last year or the beginning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this year, so that was very very new and and that’s 4K resolution.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now this is like, I think it’s like 70% more pixels. It’s a massive jump. It’s the same, exactly the same
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the same reason. The same type of jump as it was to go from 24 inch monitors to 30 inch monitors. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, it’s a big, big jump in just number of pixels. The second problem
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that pushing that many pixels uses more bandwidth at 60 hertz than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thunderbolt 2 can supply. And so the only way to do it is to split
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it using MST, which is its own kind of mess of half support and bugginess,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to split it between two different Thunderbolt buses and monopolize most of the bandwidth of both
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of them, because you need 28 gigabits, I think? Because, yeah, the max is 20, right? So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need 28. So you basically split it into two halves, left half, right half,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco make the computer, make the video card think it’s two monitors, and then in the OS, fix it to see it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as one monitor, basically. That’s the gist. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so you need a heck of a lot of bandwidth to do this, and special hardware
⏹️ ▶️ Marco support, special software support, so we were all assuming this would not come out for a very long time.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco My estimate was two to three more years. Turns out, Dell has announced they’re shipping one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this winter, possibly December-ish, and it’s only, quote, only $2,500. And actually,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for what that is, and for the jump that represents,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That, I believe, is a fair price. There are some caveats to this. One of the biggest is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we don’t know yet whether it runs at 60 hertz. That’s a problem. There have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been some 4K monitors that will run at 30 hertz and it’s bad. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who use it say it’s really rough. You do notice the difference. It doesn’t look right, it doesn’t feel right. It causes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco eye strain sometimes or whatever. Not good. So you really need it to be 60 hertz.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, so we don’t know that And we don’t know, like, currently for Mac people,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco nothing in the entire Mac lineup has two Thunderbolt buses except the new Mac Pro. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even if this comes out, assuming it uses two different cables to plug into two different Thunderbolt buses to achieve that high
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bandwidth, the only computer that it even might be compatible with is the current Mac Pro.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And we don’t even know if the Mac Pro will have the hardware and software tweaks needed to treat it right. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a pretty, there’s a huge list of ifs here. And then on top of all of that, we don’t know if this monitor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is going to suck. We don’t like it could as John, you know, it could be like Dell’s monitors
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have spotty quality. Some of them are good. Some of them are crappy. The previous ones that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco used MST, the 24 inch one, 24 inch 4k one, that there were some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco bugs with the MST implementation. Supposedly they’ve been fixed, but there were some pretty big bugs when it launched. So
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s, it’s kind of iffy as to whether this is going to work. To me, what I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gives me promise here is that if Dell can ship one of these this winter for $2500,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that means Apple could too if they wanted to. Maybe not for that price, maybe they’d put it in an iMac
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first, I think they probably would honestly. You know, I think what we’re very likely to see this fall
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a Retina iMac with this resolution that is positioned above the current generation of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMacs. So it wouldn’t replace them, it would be a new higher end model because it would have to be much more expensive,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco possibly starting at 3000 would be my guess. So maybe we’ll see that maybe they’ll just do
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 4k and do scaling the way they’ve been doing on the other devices. I don’t know. But this would be amazing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If if if Apple released this, or if if if Dell’s is actually really good, in a way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that works on any other Mac, or any Mac, this would be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco truly amazing. And this this is the true desktop retina big monitor like the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the only other true retina monitor out there right now is the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Dell 24 inch 4k because that’s the one that gives you like it gives you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact 2x resolution of a standard size at a standard density
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like all the other 4k monitors the 4k like 4k resolution is twice
⏹️ ▶️ Marco 1080p and so a monitor that is roughly 1080p which 24 inch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco monitor classes usually are. 24 inch monitor like old 24 inch LCDs.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is like the right size for 4k to be retina. Anything bigger than that and either everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the screen is too large or you you know you have to like not render it exactly at 2x.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This monitor or any monitor with identical specs as this monitor is the only way to get true retina
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at 27 inches or 30 inches. So that’s why this is a big deal and we weren’t expecting this for
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think they’re going to put anything like this in an iMac this year, because I think it’s still still too far. Like, I don’t think
⏹️ ▶️ John they want that. I don’t think it makes sense for the iMac to stretch that far upmarket.
⏹️ ▶️ John Eventually, sure, you know, when it becomes cheaper. But I mean, I think when they do right
⏹️ ▶️ John now on the iMac, it will not be at this resolution. It’ll be something smaller because it just just doesn’t doesn’t make sense to
⏹️ ▶️ John me with the way Apple’s been treating the iMac line lately.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you think Marco, if there is this hypothetical iMac that has
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this hypothetical retina display, would you give up your beloved trash can for this?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would give it a couple of months to see if they released a standalone Thunderbolt display version of it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or, you know, a year or two years or however long it takes. What was the gap between the 27 inch? Maybe it wasn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John that long, but I think it was about a year. And various times in the past, it has seemed like an awful long time
⏹️ ▶️ John between the release of an Apple device with the display and the standalone display. And we’re always like,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like the iPod Classic that we’ll talk about. Do they care about individual displays anymore? Are they going to do that? I mean,
⏹️ ▶️ John they released the new Mac Pro and they really didn’t care about monitors. Like here, buy this thing from Sharp.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, exactly. I mean, and maybe the reason why is because they, their monitor
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wasn’t ready yet. You know, like maybe they are planning a big update to the Thunderbolt displays, but it just wasn’t ready yet and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it wouldn’t be ready for six months. They’re like, all right, well here, take this. But so I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this fall, obviously they’re busy with things that we’ll get to, but, but I think,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, the Mac lineup has not seen a lot of updates because everyone’s waiting on Broadwell.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it would be nice to do something like this, you know, not to say that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the reason they would do it, but I don’t know. I think this fall is going to be awfully quiet for the Mac lineup
⏹️ ▶️ Marco unless they do something like 4K iMacs, which they would call right now. But
⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be nice if they if they actually update the Mac pros with the new CPUs, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John So that’ll kind of be like for us to test how much do they really care about the Mac Pro. Because there’s no reason they have to upgrade with
⏹️ ▶️ John the new CPUs when they’re available, but they could. So this will be a good
⏹️ ▶️ John way to gauge their interest in this product line. Like do they
⏹️ ▶️ John updating them? They just say, you know what, we’re going to skip this. The current Mac Pros are fine. People are buying them. We’ll wait
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you want to talk about a funny tweet that you saw, John?
⏹️ ▶️ John I did. Yeah. We talked a lot about sexism and the games industry
⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff on the after show last and I saw a couple of interesting things
⏹️ ▶️ John go by in the week since. This one was a tweet that struck me as funny. It is from
⏹️ ▶️ John someone whose name I’m not going to attempt to pronounce but his Twitter handle is y-e-z-e-r.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yezzer I guess? And he has tweeted a picture. People love to do this. They take a screenshot
⏹️ ▶️ John and tweet a picture of it, which doesn’t really make that much sense to me because as if a screenshot
⏹️ ▶️ John is proof of anything, and I’m always amazed at people who look at screenshots like they’ll ask for screenshots as
⏹️ ▶️ John proof you would think like kids today would be savvy and know that screenshots prove
⏹️ ▶️ John nothing like you can can right-click on any web page and make any screenshot
⏹️ ▶️ John you want kids anyway that’s not the point of this is not a proof thing he tweeted a picture of someone’s
⏹️ ▶️ John tweet who has an egg icon and blacked out the identifying information because he’s not trying to like make
⏹️ ▶️ John fun of this person or get this person harassed or whatever. And the text of this tweet says,
⏹️ ▶️ John my biggest problem with Anita, meaning Anita Sarkeesian of the feminist frequency videos, is that if I used her
⏹️ ▶️ John logic, I could see sexism everywhere. And the commentary added by this tweeter is
⏹️ ▶️ John teetering on the brink of an epiphany. This is funny, because it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John getting back to like seeing the matrix type thing. That reaction is natural for a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of people being exposed to this stuff. And they’re like, geez, it’s like I see this stuff everywhere.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like a conspiracy theorist sees the government is trying to hunt them down everywhere or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John And so this person is offering that up as this kind of absurd notion. If
⏹️ ▶️ John I saw things the way this person did, I would see sexism everywhere. And obviously, that would be crazy. They’re not
⏹️ ▶️ John quite there yet. Anyway, I thought it was funny. And the other thing related to this topic is
⏹️ ▶️ John a couple of people suggested the Twitter account everyday sexism to follow if you just sort of want like
⏹️ ▶️ John sort of ambient exposure to this viewpoint without feeling like you have to engage with that
⏹️ ▶️ John without feeling like you’re being yelled at or whatever. I don’t follow the council. I don’t know what the tone it’s like. I just looked at some of the tweets
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s like aggregating, uh, people, things that happen to people during the day or things
⏹️ ▶️ John they think are sexist. They will, you know, funnel into this account and you can just add it to your Twitter stream
⏹️ ▶️ John and, and just let it go by. Don’t feel like you have to argue with it. Don’t feel like you have to agree with all of it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just, So that’s another way to sort of expose yourself. I don’t know. I don’t follow the council.
⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t vouch for it. But other people do, and they find it’s helpful. So I thought I’d throw that out there.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And can I just kind of jump on the feedback regarding the last episode just to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thank pretty much all of our listeners, all the feedback that I’ve heard almost
⏹️ ▶️ Casey exclusively. There’s, of course, a couple of bad apples here and there. But almost exclusively, all the feedback has been really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey positive. And I’ve seen a lot of people talking following the hosts of Isometric Show
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and starting to listen to Isometric. And given the subject
⏹️ ▶️ Casey matter, that could have taken a turn for the worst in terms of listener response, and I am
⏹️ ▶️ Casey extremely glad and proud that so many people seemed pleased with how it was handled
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and also seemed to be—enlightened seems a bit dramatic, but I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey think of a better word—so enlightened by the conversation. And so many thanks to all our listeners
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for sticking that one out.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was much, much less noisy and
⏹️ ▶️ John contentious follow-up feedback than when we discussed Android phones. Just
⏹️ ▶️ John to give you, if you want to take the temperature of our audience, topics that we can discuss without much
⏹️ ▶️ John angry email, sexism. Topics that we can’t discuss without a lot of angry email, Android.
⏹️ ▶️ John So there you go. Not saying that’s good or bad. That’s just that’s the audience we have. And I was pleasantly
⏹️ ▶️ John surprised as well. I thought our listeners, you never know when you touch on a topic, even though it technically is
⏹️ ▶️ John tech related and it’s all part of this community or whatever, you never know if you’re just going to suddenly draw a gigantic red
⏹️ ▶️ John line down the middle of your audience and half of them are going to send you angry emails. That did not happen. It could just
⏹️ ▶️ John be because they don’t care. Like, it doesn’t mean everyone agrees with us. Just be like, yeah, whatever. We’re waiting for you
⏹️ ▶️ John to talk about tech stuff.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, how about the Megativo that looks like a Synology but isn’t?
⏹️ ▶️ John Everybody was sending this like, oh, look, the sub Tivo finally made a thing for John. It’s a giant. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the people who said that don’t understand my Tivo needs or have not captured
⏹️ ▶️ John the nuances of it. So this is a product called the Tivo Mega, and it’s a rack mount. What does it look like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I think it’s a minimum, right? So if you put three and a half inch drives in there, so I think the smallest you can make it is for you, right?
⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s around $5,000. Tivo hasn’t priced it. It’s got 24 terabytes of storage. and, you know, like we said,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s rack mount, so obviously this is not something that you stick under your TV. And hey, look,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s got all the storage. Isn’t that great? It’s like you always say you buy the most expensive TiVo. The problem with this
⏹️ ▶️ John device, not that I would ever entertain buying it, but the reason it doesn’t fulfill any sort of even like silly fantasy
⏹️ ▶️ John of a TiVo that I might have, is that the part, the sort of working
⏹️ ▶️ John part of this, not the storage, the storage is obviously all these hard drives and there’s a lot of them, right, but the working part of it is It is
⏹️ ▶️ John exactly the same as the TiVo I have now. It doesn’t have more tuners. I assume the interface is just as slow or fast,
⏹️ ▶️ John depending on how you want to get it. Like, it doesn’t have any better features than the TiVo. All it has is like my
⏹️ ▶️ John TiVo with tons more storage and, you know, cooling and everything and power supply to power that storage and so on and so
⏹️ ▶️ John forth. I’m not running out of room on my TiVo. My problem is not storage. I always want it to be like, have an all HD interface,
⏹️ ▶️ John be faster, be more responsive, you know, have the built-in apps be nicer. That’s what I want. And this doesn’t fulfill
⏹️ ▶️ John any of those things. So it’s not really my fantasy TiVo. As for who this TiVo is for, initially
⏹️ ▶️ John when I saw the announcement I was like, oh they’re going after shows like the Daily Show who record
⏹️ ▶️ John tons of channels of television and have people reviewing them. So that’s where they can
⏹️ ▶️ John get all that footage from and play it back. Sort of institutional DVRing. It’s not for an individual,
⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s for a company to try to capture all these channels and have a bunch of employees reviewing them or whatever. But
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not what this is for. There’s another company that does that by the way, what’s their name? How to link this?
⏹️ ▶️ John Snapstream. Snapstream makes giant rack mount DVR type things for just that purpose. This
⏹️ ▶️ John TiVo is apparently for rich people. So it’s not for institutions to use,
⏹️ ▶️ John because apparently it doesn’t have, according to this Ars Technica article we’ll put in the show notes, it doesn’t have the
⏹️ ▶️ John exporting facilities that the professional devices use to sort of get into the video workflow of broadcast television
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. It’s more like if you are very wealthy and have a crazy entertainment center and have like a separate
⏹️ ▶️ John room or closet where all your television stuff is, this is where you would put that rack. Right.
⏹️ ▶️ John So and you just want to record everything. And it only has six tuners. There’s not so much you can record.
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe you just want to record it and I don’t know. I really don’t think this is going to be a big winner product for them, because
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not sort of something they’re going to sell television studios and television shows. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even not sure how many rich people really want to have a giant rack mount Tivo. But there you
⏹️ ▶️ John go. Rack mount Tivo.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I disagree. I think your stereotypical rich person just wants the best darn TiVo
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that money can buy and when you say, well, you could record three years of television, I want that.
⏹️ ▶️ John But you can’t. I think of the numbers they give. That’s SD. Who records SD? That’s they always inflate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is also like, you know, as somebody in the chat said, this is like for the custom installation market. This
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is when this is for people who have so much money and are building such an expensive home theater setup that they’re paying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody else to design the whole thing for them and install it in their home and build the little server rack
⏹️ ▶️ Marco closet and everything like
⏹️ ▶️ John yeah oh yeah these people are installing it themselves but even for that like it’s not even those people
⏹️ ▶️ John they say these are the features that i want right i want this that and the other thing and i don’t know if i don’t even know
⏹️ ▶️ John if tivo fits on a list like what are those names of those crazy things that rip uh they rip blu-ray
⏹️ ▶️ John i know what you’re talking about i forget what i don’t think it’s legal no it is that you have to keep the discs
⏹️ ▶️ John in the device so they have giant jukeboxes of the disc so they rip they rip all your blu-rays but since
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s illegal to play them back without the blu-ray in the drive there’s a giant like jukebox type thing that says
⏹️ ▶️ John well now it’s legal because all the the things are in the drive i forget what it is but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway that is like i i think it’s called kaleidoscope because the chat room is attempting to spell kaleidoscope and spelling it in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a bunch of different ways yeah collide
⏹️ ▶️ John escape uh so those type of things you sell that as if you’re an installer if you’re a media center
⏹️ ▶️ John installer you say hey Blu-ray is the best quality movies you can get now for you know that you can buy for yourself
⏹️ ▶️ John Which is true unless I guess you’re buying your own like film prints or 70 millimeter film prints or something anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John Blu-ray is the best digital copy you can get You’d like to be able to have access
⏹️ ▶️ John to a giant collection of blu-rays on demand whenever you want This device gives you that this Tevo
⏹️ ▶️ John thing It’s like well you could get just the the plain you know the regular person
⏹️ ▶️ John Tevo that I have now But you’ll run out of room if you don’t if you don’t watch anything that you
⏹️ ▶️ John record for like three weeks and you record tons Of show stuff. So really you should get this $5,000 thing They won’t
⏹️ ▶️ John run out of room that will last like you I mean you if you record this much stuff and never watch
⏹️ ▶️ John it like you’re never gonna catch up It’s not it’s too much storage like you don’t have you only have six
⏹️ ▶️ John tuners You can’t you can’t say like my old dream was record every single channel on television
⏹️ ▶️ John You know for a week and that way whenever I want to watch something I don’t have to choose what to record you recorded everything
⏹️ ▶️ John all I have to choose is what I want to watch based on a Moving week window or two week window or whatever, but this can’t do that cuz
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s only got six tuners So I don’t understand this product.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is such a like Super charging a horse problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey This is this is ridiculous.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, what do you think? We’ll sell more this or the Amazon fire
⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you’re a rich person and you say I want a DVR and money is no object
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and now I’m an installer and I think, well, money’s no object, I better give them the best darn DVR that I can
⏹️ ▶️ Casey buy, they’re going to get this ridiculous TiVo that really, to your point, serves no particular purpose
⏹️ ▶️ Casey other than to make rich people feel like they have the best TiVo in the world.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. And this, you know, like, like the kind of installation we’re talking about that, that has, you know, a custom home
⏹️ ▶️ Marco theater stuff and stuff like this going into it, that might be like a 75 grand installation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So like, you know, the $5,000 for one component is not that outrageous.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, no, it’s funds $5,000 for an HDMI switch in those. Right. I’m not saying the price
⏹️ ▶️ John is the limiting factor. I’m just thinking like feature wise. I don’t know if this is bringing anything to the table that a regular TiVo
⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t. I mean, installer can can charge $5,000 for a regular TiVo. Like the price of the thing has no bearing
⏹️ ▶️ John on what the person gets charged for the installation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Our first sponsor this week is our friends at Hover. Now, last time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mentioned that a lot of people kept writing and telling me I was pronouncing the name wrong. Turns out I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco went and I asked them, hey, can you send me a recording of you pronouncing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this name for me? Hello and greetings from London.
⏹️ ▶️ John The correct pronunciation for your sponsor’s name is Hover.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I also had employees that I was in contact with. I had them record themselves saying
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. So I have the authoritative pronunciation of this company is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hover. And the main difference seems to be that if you are British or Australian or some
⏹️ ▶️ Marco other country that speaks a variant of British English instead of real English like us. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco love you. Please email Casey. No! Well, you have a whole podcast
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about that. So if you speak some variant of British English,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you probably pronounce it with more of an O instead of a U sound on the first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco O. And so that seems to be the main difference. But anyway, hover, which is the correct way to
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re doing, hover is a domain registrar that does not suck. That’s saying a lot. There are a lot
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of domain registrars out there. I’ve tried many of them myself. I have not been very happy with most of them
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and hover I’m happy with. And that should tell you something. It the interface is beautiful. The support
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is beautiful. They have all the new TLDs you can imagine. You know, they have all these built-in features that you don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to pay extra for. Like, they give you domain privacy built-in. They don’t feel like nickel and diming you. They
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what people need and what people don’t. And you don’t have to like uncheck 10 different boxes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to say like, please don’t spam me. Please don’t publicize my information to the entire universe. No,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t want your additional 10 hosting packages. Thank you very much. Like, it’s just simple.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The interface is nice. It’s respectful. It’s respectful of your time and it’s respectful of your money.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a very good value. So they also have amazing 24 seven phone support. You can just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco call them if you want. And you can also do the usual things. You can email them, they have knowledge bases and stuff online.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you can also call them during business hours and a person a real person who works for hover
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Overcast. It’s overcast. My favorite podcast app is
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have a bunch of domains you’ve collected in like, you know, three different registrars over the years, they will
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco time. Like it’s like everyone has messed up DNS at some point who’s tried to move domain somewhere and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they will do all this for you. It’s really fantastic. So is great. I really can’t say it any better than that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So thank you very much to hover for proving me right about pronunciation and also for sponsoring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco our show. If you do decide to support them, use our coupon code for this week. It is
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⏹️ ▶️ John Is it Hoover? Hoover? Like vacuum?
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⏹️ ▶️ Marco sufficient to get 10% off your first purchase and to show your support for our show. Thank you very much to Hover
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⏹️ ▶️ John If you if we got through that ad read and you’re still wondering if you’re American and you’re still wondering what the heck people were talking about
⏹️ ▶️ John with the alternate pronunciation, The best word I can think of that’s a sound-alike
⏹️ ▶️ John that I think most Americans will pronounce in the sound-alike way is a small crappy
⏹️ ▶️ John house, a hovel. Just take that first syllable and put er at the end.
⏹️ ▶️ John Sorry, I can’t do it. But anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah. I can’t do
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it because it’s not right. No, but
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing that kills me about this whole pronunciation debate is that all the people who wrote us were
⏹️ ▶️ John so incensed in a way that they wouldn’t be if, you know, if We said, like,
⏹️ ▶️ John just think of any other word you can say in a British accent. American and British
⏹️ ▶️ John English sound different. We all know they sound different. There are words they say different than us. And yet this one was some like, oh, you just
⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have an accent. You’re not saying like, I don’t know. Why don’t you think of a word that sounds different in
⏹️ ▶️ John British English than regular? Like, we all accept all these other words. But this one was like, you’re not just speaking
⏹️ ▶️ John with an American accent. You are saying the word wrong. And you’re saying it wrong in a crazy way, which makes me think that British people
⏹️ ▶️ John haven’t seen enough American movies that involved the word hover in the script because it’s not weird at
⏹️ ▶️ John all. And it was so easy to tell. So we said, what are we saying? Everybody else and everyone who wrote it and oh, by the
⏹️ ▶️ John way, I’m in insert British colony here. That’s not America.
⏹️ ▶️ John All you people need to get together and add this to your list with like lift and lorry and torch and all those other things.
⏹️ ▶️ John Just add the list of things and everyone will tell each other this is one more way that American and British
⏹️ ▶️ John English is different and it is not a bunch of American people mispronouncing a word. We just speak differently.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So we have to go from this to a bunch of
⏹️ ▶️ Casey genuinely sad news. And I’m not trying to be funny anymore. There was some really, really, really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey unfortunate news today about Macworld. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I speak for all three of us in saying that we have a whole bunch of friends
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that work, or I guess worked at Macworld, and many of them
⏹️ ▶️ Casey got laid off today. And that’s a really awful thing. And I’ve been so lucky
⏹️ ▶️ Casey not to have ever been through that. Although, John, I think you had said you hadn’t, so maybe you can talk about that in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey a second. But these are really, really, really, really awesome people.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And a couple of them have already been moving in the direction of new things anyway, and so I’m very thankful
⏹️ ▶️ Casey for that. But it’s a really, really terrible thing. And even as someone who never really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey read all that much Mac World, I’m still disappointed by it, because I know what it meant to the community.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it stinks. And I feel real bad for all of our friends. So best wishes
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, this is probably more significant for old people like me, because I grew up reading these
⏹️ ▶️ John paper, before the internet, these paper magazines about the Macintosh, Macuser and Macworld magazine
⏹️ ▶️ John from the beginning. And a lot of the names and faces that are associated
⏹️ ▶️ John with Macworld either have been there for a long time or came from Macuser, which I also read. Macuser was my oldest
⏹️ ▶️ John favorite back in the day, mostly because it was probably friendlier to 11
⏹️ ▶️ John and 12 year old me or whatever age I was when I was reading that. But Jason Snell came from there and then he was in charge
⏹️ ▶️ John of Macworld and then in charge of even more things at the parent company of Macworld.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, pretty much everybody almost everybody that I knew and almost the entire staff of macro magazine
⏹️ ▶️ John got laid off Which sucks I have been through many
⏹️ ▶️ John jobs and many similar situations my usual sort of Way I handle
⏹️ ▶️ John this is when I feel like the company’s going down the drain I start looking for something else and I get
⏹️ ▶️ John out before I actually get laid off But that is not you would think oh, that’s a better way to do it But it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John really like doing it’s exactly the same thing because it’s basically you’re in a situation where you realize your job
⏹️ ▶️ John is going away and if it’s not and you don’t know when it’s going to be, it could be tomorrow, it could be next week, could be next
⏹️ ▶️ John year, but you have to do that whole thing where it’s like, I don’t want a new job. I enjoy my job. I like the people
⏹️ ▶️ John I work with, but now I need to get a new job. And it’s it’s a terrible feeling
⏹️ ▶️ John no matter how it happens. And it’s it’s probably even worse. Although this has never happened to me to just come into
⏹️ ▶️ John work one day and say, guess what? sorry. And that’s got to
⏹️ ▶️ John really suck for the people who were just totally blindsided. I wish the company,
⏹️ ▶️ John the parent company that runs Macworld, could have figured out how to make a successful business
⏹️ ▶️ John from this. It’s difficult to make that transition from the old world where they were dominant
⏹️ ▶️ John paper magazine to the new world where paper magazines are not as important. But they had all the pieces,
⏹️ ▶️ John they had all the talent, they had all the of people. It wasn’t a bunch of old fogies there. Like it was they
⏹️ ▶️ John had a complete age range of people who knew what they were doing, who are savvy with all the things. It’s just like
⏹️ ▶️ John the people steering the ship just couldn’t figure out how to make it work. And someone tweeted earlier today,
⏹️ ▶️ John like layoffs are basically when someone who makes a lot more money than you is bad at their job and you suffer for it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right. Because it’s not it’s not these people’s job to make the company, you know, figure out how
⏹️ ▶️ John the company is going to make money like big picture wise. They don’t have control of that. Their job is to like do the best writing
⏹️ ▶️ John and reporting they can, do the best reviews they can, or whatever their individual jobs are, they could be doing their jobs amazingly
⏹️ ▶️ John well, and I think they were, it doesn’t matter because they don’t make the decisions about what the company
⏹️ ▶️ John does. And that in the end is what ended up costing them their jobs, that’s just the way of the world.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I feel terrible for these people. And the thing I think about when they’re out there in the marketplace now, if you’re thinking of hiring
⏹️ ▶️ John these people, there is, you know, we just talked about the, you know, paper
⏹️ ▶️ John print magazines being sort of a thing of the past and having to make that transition. There
⏹️ ▶️ John are some aspects of that world that are, I think, still valuable and now suddenly become
⏹️ ▶️ John unique. So if you run a website like Ars Technica or, you know, Mac Rumors or
⏹️ ▶️ John iMore or anything like that, these things came up in the time where
⏹️ ▶️ John part of the excitement of that is you could type whatever you want and hit a button, it went out and to millions of people could read it.
⏹️ ▶️ John it. And it was much less formal and much more sort of personal and
⏹️ ▶️ John exciting and raw, right? As opposed to like a print magazine process where you write it and it goes through editing,
⏹️ ▶️ John copy editing, and it gets smoothed over and it comes out. I’m not gonna say it’s like more professional because it makes it sound like the websites
⏹️ ▶️ John aren’t professional. They are. It’s just a different tone, right? And the people
⏹️ ▶️ John who work or worked for Macworld are the people who know how to work in that environment.
⏹️ ▶️ John And like, for example, if there was some writer working for Macworld and wrote something crazy and just
⏹️ ▶️ John started filling with expletives and yelling about things and just being
⏹️ ▶️ John terrible, that wouldn’t get out in Macworld. Macworld, I’m not going to say it was like a family magazine, but
⏹️ ▶️ John that wasn’t done in the print world. You didn’t just have someone just go off on a crazy unsubstantiated rant,
⏹️ ▶️ John and you wouldn’t publish that because paper pages were precious and you wouldn’t do that type of thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the new world is not like that. And so I’m not saying one is better than the other, but suddenly the people who are used to writing in that environment
⏹️ ▶️ John are now different. Now they are the oddball. Now they are the interesting, unique
⏹️ ▶️ John thing, because there are tons of websites out there with sort of a less formal process and
⏹️ ▶️ John more sort of raw, exposed writing. These people know how to write
⏹️ ▶️ John a sort of like, maybe you could say they know how to write a boring sounding or whatever. I just think, you know, I’m going to say it again, but
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not really what I mean. The professional is the word that I’m thinking of, but it’s not really the right word. But like, you read it
⏹️ ▶️ John and you feel like these are adults writing for adults in a mature manner
⏹️ ▶️ John that is considered and well-written and well-articulated.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s something that I think needs to be part of the current
⏹️ ▶️ John stew of tech journalism. And it is part of it. Some publications skew
⏹️ ▶️ John one way or the other. Not everything is BuzzFeed and at the other end of the spectrum. I don’t know what you would put on there.
⏹️ ▶️ John But the people coming out of Macworld know how to do
⏹️ ▶️ John that. If you want somebody who knows how to do that, these are the people. And I think that skill is much more rare than
⏹️ ▶️ John somebody who knows how to just bang out. I tried the iWatch and it was, I’m still calling it the iWatch,
⏹️ ▶️ John I tried the Apple Watch and it was really cool and it was shiny. And like, there’s a place for that. I’m not saying that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John bad, like people like to read that, it’s exciting. But I feel like we have much more of that now than we have
⏹️ ▶️ John Macworld. Macworld’s sort of not entirely going away, the print magazine is going away, the website’s going to be going away, but
⏹️ ▶️ John all those people who are writing all those those words,
⏹️ ▶️ John I hope they find some place to write in, to put their skills
⏹️ ▶️ John that they’ve gained, those hard-earned skills they’ve gained, to use, because I think that type of voice needs to be part
⏹️ ▶️ John of the tech journalism ecosystem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the other interesting thing about Macworld, to be completely selfish for a second, was
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that they actually published something I was a part of, which was extraordinarily exciting. And I mean that genuinely.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I called my mom to say, hey, mom, guess what? I’m a published
⏹️ ▶️ Casey magazine writer, sort of, ish, kind of. But nevertheless, it was extremely cool.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And like I said, everyone I’ve met there is just so phenomenally awesome. And I’m really bummed.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m bummed for all of them. But I’m also happy because I’m sure, I’m absolutely unequivocally
⏹️ ▶️ Casey confident that they are all going to find some new and exciting venture. Someone
⏹️ ▶️ John in the chat room suggested formal instead of professional. a better word because I don’t want to say professional because it makes it
⏹️ ▶️ John sound like the websites aren’t professional and they totally are like formal formal or family
⏹️ ▶️ John friendly. I don’t know, considered like, I mean, I think it’s a hybrid
⏹️ ▶️ John because this this macro crew like it’s a shame this came right after the Apple Watch event and everything like
⏹️ ▶️ John they would descend on an event and they would file tons of stories well written, correct,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, fact checked, researched just like in an amazing speed, especially like I was
⏹️ ▶️ John always amazed by how fast everyone can write well there, like everyone on their staff could not only
⏹️ ▶️ John bang out story after story. They were all good stories and they were all well written. Someone like me who really struggles to
⏹️ ▶️ John get any words out that I am that I find remotely acceptable. I was always amazed that they could just be like,
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, I got to write this story out. Decade attack. Half an hour later, it’s done. I’m like, I don’t even understand like magic. It’s like watching
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they’re professionals like like, you know, you, you are a professional writer, but you you very rarely write like you write
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this one big thing a year, whereas they do this every day. Like this is this is their job.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Their job is to to write in that way to that quality to that standard like that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they do that. They did that full
⏹️ ▶️ John time and other websites like every website like I’m or does it. Ars Technica does it. You know, Mac Rumors does.
⏹️ ▶️ John They all do it. It’s just that like it just seems so much harder to do it in the way that Macworld does it. Or
⏹️ ▶️ John again, at the very least, it’s It is now a rarity. What was once like the only way you could write about technology,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, every magazine was like that is now a rarity and becoming more rare. So what I’m saying is I just hope that
⏹️ ▶️ John that stays in the mix somewhere. You know, I want, I want someplace where I can read stuff like that. Like, because I,
⏹️ ▶️ John Macworld was in my rotation of things that I would read. I have tabs open with, uh, Macworld stories right now,
⏹️ ▶️ John like for, you know, things from my OS 10 review, cause they’ve done the whole bunch of previews and I want to make sure I don’t miss anything
⏹️ ▶️ John that they covered or want to get their point of view and things like this. Like, it’s just, and what am I going to do when that’s not there? you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gonna be disappointing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they also like they’re leaving behind this this very much like a real world
⏹️ ▶️ Marco impact in this technology world like like Macworld magazine is the only magazine I’ve ever written for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I didn’t own. It’s the only time I’ve ever been I’ve ever written something that was in print.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s the only time anybody else has ever paid me to write something. I wrote one thing for one issue of Macworld
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that was a huge honor. I I also have in the corner of my office
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Macworld Eddie trophy for Instapaper from, let me see if I can see it, I believe it says 2010, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I have a Macworld Eddie and when you get a Macworld Eddie it’s like their annual Editor’s Choice Awards.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is this tremendous heavy statue, it is like this giant trophy, it’s got
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be 15 inches tall and it comes in this big box, weighs a ton.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s great, it’s this nice like physical artifact, this big trophy of something you did in the virtual
⏹️ ▶️ Marco world that you don’t usually get real life impact for, you know. And that’s nice. And like when I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was printed in the magazine, my grandparents went out and bought like 10 copies of the magazine. My
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mom went out and bought copies and like showed all of her friends like yep it’s and like this is like without
⏹️ ▶️ Marco old publications like Macworld, it’s hard to… It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John hard to impress old people. Yes. Like really old people like our parents and grandparents. Yes. I mean, it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John really it’s an end in error. Like it used to be Macworld Expos where Apple would announce their stuff, paper magazines for
⏹️ ▶️ John the King, they had huge staffs. I remember talking to Jason the first times I met him about, I really
⏹️ ▶️ John love when Macworld, the Mac user, used to do those reviews of printers and they would show magnified versions of
⏹️ ▶️ John the serifs on the different letters, the output of laser printers. And you’d have like, it was kind of like
⏹️ ▶️ John DP reviews today for photography, where you’d see like an entire page spread of like all the little serifs on a letter T
⏹️ ▶️ John with all the different printers. So you could see which printer did the serifs better. And they’re like huge, extensive, really
⏹️ ▶️ John detailed reviews. And he said, but we just don’t have the staff for that anymore. I mean, it’s the, you know, it’s the same. It was a
⏹️ ▶️ John slow, steady decline of paper publications, whether it be newspaper, paper magazines and everything else. It just seems like
⏹️ ▶️ John under different or better leadership, Macworld had the staff
⏹️ ▶️ John and the skills to make the transition completely into a viable website like all the other tech websites. It’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John that just didn’t didn’t happen.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I think no matter how you do it, it’s a it’s a hard business. I mean, you know, I ran a magazine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco briefly. and even running a small iPad magazine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that had no full-time staff and then eventually one full-time staff and then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had no print edition, had no photographers, no like half of an editor first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a full editor. I was doing it on such a tiny scale and it was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really hard to make that work. Even with like almost no overhead, with no
⏹️ ▶️ Marco history, no old obligations, like nothing like that. And it was impossible
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for me to make that work myself. I know this, and even just running my own website
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and seeing other people run their websites and I know the economics of this are challenging. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s very easy to be a hobbyist or a part-timer in this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco field. It is very hard to have a big enough company that you can afford to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hire other people full-time and do things properly, do things well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do things with professional journalist standards. It is extremely hard to fund that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think you can look around and see how few places are that way and how well they’re doing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you can kind of see that, you know, this way, you know, I don’t know the Macworld management.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know how they were, how they were running things over there. But I would say that under any
⏹️ ▶️ Marco management, this probably would have still happened.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s just really crummy.
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⏹️ ▶️ John That’s some bad news for you about your perfect vision, Marco. I look, I don’t expect it to last
⏹️ ▶️ John right about when your son is entering high school, you’ll be able to take advantage of those prescription lenses.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Anyway, so there was an Apple event that we almost saw.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey That we almost saw, and then we saw it in multiple languages all at once.
⏹️ ▶️ John Can we just start by saying that, I’ll start by saying that I’m so disappointed that this story
⏹️ ▶️ John that someone, this post that someone wrote about what they think caused Apple’s streaming problems, it’s just passed
⏹️ ▶️ John around everywhere. And like every time I saw it on a site, I’m like, no, not you too.
⏹️ ▶️ John If you saw a story today trying to explain what Apple Streaming’s woes were, chances are you saw
⏹️ ▶️ John this story. Link, I don’t even have the show notes.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe it’s like streamingmediablog.com or something. Streaming something
⏹️ ▶️ John blog. Yes. It did not appear to have any good information and it looked, it just didn’t make any
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And everyone who knows
⏹️ ▶️ John anything about websites or web technology all said that and yet it still ran on every single
⏹️ ▶️ John site. So I find that disappointing. It was talking about like the interactive blog
⏹️ ▶️ John stuff and the JSON things. Like, there were nuggets of truth in there, but none, like there was no inside information,
⏹️ ▶️ John and the speculation didn’t make any sense, and yet everyone ran it like, here’s an explanation of why Apple streaming sucked.
⏹️ ▶️ John It did not explain it very well at all. It did not seem to have conclusive inside information,
⏹️ ▶️ John and yet it got spread everywhere. Anyway, let’s ignore that for now. I didn’t think that was a good article. We don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John know why they screwed up. Apple has done streaming many times in the past, and not screwed up,
⏹️ ▶️ John this week was not one of those times they screwed up. Although I will say, since I don’t trust their streams
⏹️ ▶️ John will ever be good, I had a multi-redundant solution going here with Apple TV,
⏹️ ▶️ John a VPN connection, and then my actual home ISP regularly. And among
⏹️ ▶️ John those three of those, I always had a stream that was working. Now granted, the stream that was working
⏹️ ▶️ John very often had Chinese over the top of it. And then after the Chinese was gone, it had Japanese. But eventually,
⏹️ ▶️ John when we got to the good part, everything was solid. They had serious problems with their AV stuff,
⏹️ ▶️ John I was happy that all those technical difficulties happened in like the first half an hour, 40 minutes or whatever. So when they
⏹️ ▶️ John got to the big announcement, everything was nice and clear. Anyway, let’s talk about what they announced because
⏹️ ▶️ John we don’t have that much time
⏹️ ▶️ Casey left. Can we start at the very beginning with the intro video?
⏹️ ▶️ John I give a thumbs down to the intro video.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the problem I have, I watched, I sort of watched the stream when it happened.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then last night in preparation for today, I watched it again. And it actually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey worked this time. A lot of what happened during the presentation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey made me just kind of cringe and do the thing. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the beginning intro video when they first did it, I don’t know, like a WWDC or two ago,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was like, oh yeah, that’s pretty awesome. But I feel like doing this every
⏹️ ▶️ Casey time is getting a little self-indulgent. And I feel like a lot of the things
⏹️ ▶️ Casey they did, if this was Samsung that did the exact same thing, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey internet would have lost
⏹️ ▶️ John it. No, you need to watch the Samsung thing to know what you’re really talking about. Watch the Sams—what
⏹️ ▶️ John was it, the Galaxy S4, was it? You don’t know. You don’t—I dare you to watch
⏹️ ▶️ John and you’ll feel better about this. But anyway, I didn’t like this intro—I think it’s because of this specific intro video. The
⏹️ ▶️ John intro video with the dots that they showed seven times, I thought that was fantastic. It was short, it was to the point. Yeah, the
⏹️ ▶️ John first three times it was great. Yeah, it was short, it’s to the point. clever it makes its point in
⏹️ ▶️ John both words and in you know in images this one was
⏹️ ▶️ John overly long was showing us a trick that we’ve all seen from that ok go video and ok go is apparently all pissed about
⏹️ ▶️ John that by the way if you haven’t seen this video we’re talking about it’s the very beginning of a show those things where you look at you
⏹️ ▶️ John look at a room from a certain angle and all the little markings on the floor and wall line up to make it look like text that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John you know sort of floating in front of you it’s a whole bunch of like real-world physical optical illusions that they bring the
⏹️ ▶️ John camera through. Anyway, like it just dragged on and the things
⏹️ ▶️ John it was saying in the little words were just it wasn’t it wasn’t as tight.
⏹️ ▶️ John It was, you know, it just you know, anyway, I think having intro video fine, especially on an event
⏹️ ▶️ John like this, that’s so important with the whole Apple Watch being introduced and all that stuff. I think having intro video
⏹️ ▶️ John was appropriate. This just wasn’t a great one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, I’m with you. Like, I think it was just boring. Like, you know, we have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to realize that what we’re watching here, this is a marketing event, and we’re watching
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a two-hour long commercial. And when you have great, amazing products being
⏹️ ▶️ Marco announced, and you have great personalities announcing them, it’s easy to forget
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that and see it as like this great, exciting event and actually really get into it and get into like the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun and the wonder of it. But when you get too far into the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco pre-produced videos and marketing messages and everything, the illusion starts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to fall apart a little bit. And that’s why moments like that, I thought, or when they are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco too video heavy in general in the keynote, or when they’re like, here, we’re going to show you three commercials we’ve made. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t like the movie showing off the commercials in the keynote, because it helps
⏹️ ▶️ Marco contribute to breaking that illusion and to reminding us that we’re watching a two-hour long commercial
⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather than the way we’d probably like to think of it as an exciting announcement for our
⏹️ ▶️ Marco industry and the future of our society using these devices. That’s how
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the good ones make us feel. But whenever they go off on too much commercial video,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically, and marketing messages, I think it breaks that a little bit.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think it really depends on the thing. Sometimes they show us a commercial, and especially when it was Steve Jobs, It’s third commercials
⏹️ ▶️ John of 30 seconds. They’re usually funny. It’s not a big deal. It’s over quick. And he was always so excited to show you
⏹️ ▶️ John whatever commercial he was excited about. The videos where it’s some talking head on a white background
⏹️ ▶️ John telling you about what they had to do to design the whatever part of the whatever, those can at least sometimes be interesting
⏹️ ▶️ John and cool. And they spend a lot of time on them. I think incorporating one into
⏹️ ▶️ John a keynote is a reasonable thing to do.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the sort of touchy feely ones where it’s really easy to go off the rails. And I think the Touchy Feely intro was a little
⏹️ ▶️ John bit, I don’t know, like it seemed just too fuzzy
⏹️ ▶️ John and vague. It did not seem as precise as the other little dots and
⏹️ ▶️ John lines video. It seemed just like a bunch of weird platitudes that did not
⏹️ ▶️ John connect in a way the other video did with either things we already believe about Apple or things that we were
⏹️ ▶️ John going to believe after seeing the thing. It just ended up, you know, anyway, I don’t think they’ll ever show that one again. I hope they don’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John unlike the Dots one, which they obviously really loved.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. And the intro video was nowhere near as bad as the infomercial
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that was in the center of the presentation, but we’ll get to that later.
⏹️ ▶️ John Which one? The watch one?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Here’s how you pay with a credit card, and oh my god, it’s so hard.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That was actually funny, at least. Oh, no, it was not. I think it was unintentionally funny. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco god. This is going to last so long.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so let’s talk about the iPhones, which was the first thing they announced.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey The iPhone 6, my initial impression, 6 and 6 plus, excuse me, my initial
⏹️ ▶️ Casey impressions, it’s bigger. Meh. Remind me of this when I eventually get a bigger phone and I tell you it’s the best
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing ever. I really am not digging the lens protruding
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the back of the phone. And I’m surprised that the internet didn’t lose their crap
⏹️ ▶️ Casey about that either.
⏹️ ▶️ John Some people have, but take it from me as an iPod Touch owner with a protruding lens many years, it’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John as bad as you think it is. It’s fine. You’ll be okay. Trust me.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I think it’s one of those things like, you know, I did see, I’m sorry, I forget who it was, and I should credit,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I totally forgot. But I saw there was a series of tweets by somebody that was retweeted a million times and eventually got to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me, where it was like, you know, the entire world is asking
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for better battery life.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that was forgotten towel, I believe.
⏹️ ▶️ John Everyone is asking for more battery life. Nobody is saying boy. I really love my iPhone 5
⏹️ ▶️ John and but it’s too thick Everyone is saying boy. I really love my iPhone 5s, but I wish the battery lasted
⏹️ ▶️ John longer But anyway, I I think you know, we’ll see I I don’t think it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John battery life for the 5s. Is that terrible? I like the idea of things getting thinner
⏹️ ▶️ John If you really care get a giant phone The most noteworthy thing about the the iPhone part is that
⏹️ ▶️ John once again all the parts leaks were dead on on. Uh, the only thing that people, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t know were the resolutions, which Gruber had obsessed over and he got one right and one wrong.
⏹️ ▶️ John Uh, and the whole Sapphire screen thing, uh, the screen has some kind of coding on it. I
⏹️ ▶️ John forget what word they’re using
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for it. They said like an ion deposited screen or something,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? Yeah, it probably is the screen they were testing in all those videos, but it’s not made
⏹️ ▶️ John of Sapphire or if there’s sapphire in it. Apple didn’t mention it. Uh, so
⏹️ ▶️ John there you go. That was obviously not the thrust of the phones. Otherwise they’re exactly what everybody showed, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John in all those different parts leaks and they have all the things we wanted the eight. We didn’t know much about. We still don’t know much about, I
⏹️ ▶️ John assume the phones all have one gig or I would have heard about it by now. Do you guys all know? That’s what I’ve heard.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean maybe, I don’t know. I think I feel like I would have heard about it. It was going to be two gig. Uh, it looks
⏹️ ▶️ John like an a seven that’s tweaked because like the speed increase was what did they say? 15% or 20% it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not like when the a7 came out today this is twice as fast as the a6 it’s not like that kind of leap
⏹️ ▶️ John the gpu makes a bigger leap but it’s always easier to make a bigger leap with gpu because you just add more execution units
⏹️ ▶️ John uh it’s 20 nanometer which is good uh that’s sort of a you know of the same
⏹️ ▶️ John like so intel is going to 14 nanometer with broadwell if it can never ship them uh so intel is still
⏹️ ▶️ John ahead but intel’s previous process was 22 nanometers so So this is kind of like it’s a big leap
⏹️ ▶️ John up from 28. It’s not down to 14, but it’s a you know, it’s significant so
⏹️ ▶️ John These look like good phones the camera with the extra optical stabilization and all that other stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John The protruding like I said won’t be a big deal, especially people who use cases the protruding will actually be
⏹️ ▶️ John a non issue entirely
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, the optical image stabilization is only in the big one and what I thought was interesting was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco When they were when they were describing the optical image stabilization and how it worked they said it it uses the M7
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the CPU to move the lens around. Now I don’t see I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know how optical stabilization works in point-and-shoots but I do know how it works in SLRs and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in SLRs optically stabilization is like the lens element itself
⏹️ ▶️ Marco spins and at least this is how cannons works and so like it has its own gyroscopic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco effect so that the movement is instantaneous and so it’s awesome. I can’t imagine
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it’s shifting the element around it like using software to sense gyroscopic
⏹️ ▶️ Marco input and then shift the thing around. How is that fast enough?
⏹️ ▶️ John Software is really fast. Computers are really fast. Instructions executed in nanoseconds.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s probably like, you know, the things that are moving it. First of all, it’s not moving it much,
⏹️ ▶️ John right? And second, it can move it those small distances very quickly.
⏹️ ▶️ John So the The thing they showed in the video is obviously crazily exaggerated like they can move up and down and it you know
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s it’s more like a barely visible vibration I would assume.
⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously it’s not going to be as good as optical image stabilization and SLR but you know they’re
⏹️ ▶️ John doing what they can to try to make it so that if they have to leave the shutter open a little bit longer because it’s dark you don’t get
⏹️ ▶️ John as much blur like don’t expect miracles from this it’s still a camera the size of a symbol. So
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah well and the other thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so and it’s in only the big one now have you guys done the printed out paper things?
⏹️ ▶️ John Of course! No, but I saw you did. I did not. I’m just gonna wait.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, I printed out the paper. I’m willing to win the show notes of, you know, where you can get these PDFs.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think what’s interesting… So, before I printed this out, I was saying, you know what?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If the big one has a better camera, I’ll just get the big one because having a better camera is important
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me. And if it has any other major improvements, I’ll get the big one. Then I printed
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this out and then I cut them out and then I actually tried holding the big one and the small
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one and oh my god it is so freaking big. Like the 5.5, the 6 plus,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco wow. Like it is so big that if I hold it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way I usually hold a phone which is I hold it on my left hand, corner of the phone is resting
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my palm, fingers are wrapped around the right side, thumbs on the left side.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t reach the home button. That’s how like I can’t my thumb can’t reach the home button.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good point like it’s crazy Like so even even they’re like their thing that drops the screen down
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to reach ability. That’s what they’re reusing that word so Janky yeah, even that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is yeah, that’s not a great salute it I mean, I guess it’s better than like putting it in
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a corner I guess it’s better than shrinking the hopscotch corner, but maybe just barely better like it’s not that much
⏹️ ▶️ John better But people don’t use those giant phones that way I’ve seen a lot of people using a giant and they don’t use them holding
⏹️ ▶️ John them the way you’re holding them. They use them either like a sidekick where you’re holding it in landscape and using your thumbs to type or
⏹️ ▶️ John they use it two-handed and sometimes they’re using it like the Galaxy Note. Sometimes they’re using it two-handed and with the stylus. Now there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John no stylus for this, but you can buy aftermarket ones. In fact, my mother has one of those and she likes using it. It’s very
⏹️ ▶️ John strange. But anyway, it’s not, they’re not using it the way you’re using it. You’re trying to use it like a traditional iPhone with your
⏹️ ▶️ John one hand and it’s, it’s totally awkward that way. Now the one-handed mode thing,
⏹️ ▶️ John that is a very pragmatic solution. It’s not great, but it’s certainly better than nothing. The
⏹️ ▶️ John worst thing I think it might do is encourage people to think that they can use it that way because that’s not going to save
⏹️ ▶️ John you. The little double tap home button would slide down. That’s not going to save you from, like you said, you can’t even get to the home button if you try to
⏹️ ▶️ John hold that way. I feel like the people who know they want this phone already are handling
⏹️ ▶️ John giant phones like this, or have them in the past, they’re going to use them differently.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s kind of like saying when the iPad came out, I can’t even wrap my hand around this thing. My hands are, you don’t hold it that way. You don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John use it that way. It’s a different form factor. If this was the only phone, it would be disastrous, but it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not. And everyone who’s tried the 47 tells me it’s reasonable. I am reserving
⏹️ ▶️ John judgment until I can try it on myself. Not made of paper.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously, this could be different once you get it in your hand, but the paper
⏹️ ▶️ Marco prototypes make it make it. It makes it so that I am definitely going to get the 4.7.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so and let me let me tell you why. Also, like, this is why it was also easier for me to make this decision.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like if I can pre-order it, which actually I can’t because of stupid upgrade eligibility, anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just going to get the 4.7. I’m not going to try to get both and return one and try to get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 5.5 and try to try it first in the store because I know I won’t be able to. The reason why
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is twofold. Number one, it’s not like this is the only year we’re going to have this size. 4.7 is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco already a huge upgrade, so let me go to that first and then see if that’s big enough before
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I start jumping over another size. Second, the 5.5 is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so big and unwieldy and it’s so poor for single-handed use,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco apparently, obviously I can’t confirm that yet, that I feel like it will do better
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a world where the watch is commonplace. Because the watch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco will, in many situations in which you’ll be taking out your phone and having to use it one-handed, like if you have to take out your
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone while you’re walking down the street, or walking the dog, something like that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s a situation where you’d use your phone one hand to do something quick. The watch will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco presumably eliminate a lot of those needs to take the phone out of your pocket for that kind of situation.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I’m thinking the 5.5 might make more sense to get
⏹️ ▶️ Marco next year because the watch isn’t even going to be out supposedly until early 2015 or spring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever word they use. That probably means April, you know, and or maybe later if it’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that’s if it’s on time it might mean June you know like we don’t know. And then the next iPhones will
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be out next September probably. And so, you know, this is the kind of thing like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco once the watch is commonplace, I think the bigger phone will be will be more palatable to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco more people. And it might be a better trade off because like, I would like a better camera, I would like better battery life,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would like a big screen when I’m using certain things when I’m reading certain things when I’m browsing websites, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would like the bigger screen in some in some cases. But because I still have to keep taking out of my pockets
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do all sorts of one-handed things so often that’s going to be a problem. Whereas in the future that might not be the case.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which one do you think you’re going to get a 64 or 128? That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the great thing that made this decision easy. I’ve been getting 64 for the last few revisions of the device
⏹️ ▶️ Marco only because 32 just wasn’t quite enough space. Sometimes but 64 I’ve never
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never filled up a 64 gig device reasonably. So I’m gonna keep getting 64 now it’s just a hundred bucks
⏹️ ▶️ Marco cheaper. I think and but John, I’m curious. What do you think of the new capacities
⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t predict it. This is a very clever way to succumb to the realities
⏹️ ▶️ John of reduced parts prices over the years like Apple has been living in a fantasy world where
⏹️ ▶️ John 1632 and 64 gigs of flash of the required spec is somehow has not changed in price in like
⏹️ ▶️ John the however many years they’ve been running these
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco capacitors. Like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco seven years or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John No, because they used to be, anyway, they have, it’s just been way too long. And they’re like, all right, all right. Here’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a 128, here’s a 64, but the low-end model still 16. It seems punitive. Like I’ve said, it’s like the RAM thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think this is a decision made by people
⏹️ ▶️ John who are worried about Apple’s margins more than they’re worried about Apple’s customer experience.
⏹️ ▶️ John Not that I’m saying you can’t have a 16 or even an eight for people who want it. But if you’re only gonna have three models, to continue
⏹️ ▶️ John to sell the 16 and make it the cheapest one is gonna drive a lot of people who are price sensitive into a phone
⏹️ ▶️ John that does not have enough capacity for the things they’re gonna do with it. It’s not saying that 16 isn’t, people are gonna say,
⏹️ ▶️ John I have a 16, I never fill it. That’s fine, that’s great. It’s just that because it’s a low-end model, people are gonna say,
⏹️ ▶️ John either they’re gonna say, I have no idea what a gigabyte is, and I just want the cheapest phone, and then they don’t realize
⏹️ ▶️ John that they’re the type of person who take tons of video, you know, or like take a lot of pictures or wanna put a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John of, you know, they don’t know what their usage is. And 16, I can tell you, in even moderate usage,
⏹️ ▶️ John if you fill it up with like the videos you take yourself and pictures and a couple
⏹️ ▶️ John of movies that you buy and a lot of big apps, especially games, which can be gigantic,
⏹️ ▶️ John you can fill 16 really quickly. Right? And that’s a disappointing experience. And there’s really like,
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s no price justification for that 16. That 16 could have been a 32, which is twice as much.
⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s it’s a big deal because that extra 16 is all storage whereas the original 16 part of that is
⏹️ ▶️ John by the OS and all the other stuff So I think there’s going to be an ever so slightly larger
⏹️ ▶️ John group of people who are disappointed because they are price sensitive They can’t afford
⏹️ ▶️ John the 32 or don’t want to pay it And they either don’t know or haven’t that they’re gonna fill
⏹️ ▶️ John a 16 or have no choice But to try to fit their stuff in a 16 and that’s not a good experience because iOS Generally does
⏹️ ▶️ John not behave well when it’s out of storage and it makes a bad experience And maybe the deleting of,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, the auto-deleting of message attachments, unless you say save, will help a little bit in
⏹️ ▶️ John this regard for storage sizes. But it’s really disappointing to me, especially like in the 6.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like if they’re going to do that on the 5 or something, or one of the other, or the 5C or whatever, like you can keep
⏹️ ▶️ John the, like, I understand you have to have that in, but for the flagship 6 line, to go 16, 64, 128, that 16
⏹️ ▶️ John really sticks in my craw. I do not like it. Yeah, I wonder if they would mid-cycle bump it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco up. I mean, probably not. They have done things like that in the past,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it’s been a while. But yeah, it just looks like it’s screwing you. It
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t look nice. It looks like a cheap move.
⏹️ ▶️ John And they’re differentiating on… That’s what they’ve chosen to differentiate on. They don’t differentiate
⏹️ ▶️ John on RAM, obviously, because they don’t tell you anything about RAM. And I think it is also disappointing they still only have one gig, but I can
⏹️ ▶️ John kind of excuse the RAM for power requirements. If again, we get back to the thinness thing, well, if you made
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing a millimeter thicker, you wouldn’t have to worry about that, would you, Apple? But you can kind of excuse
⏹️ ▶️ John that. But I mean, it should really have two gigs of it. So it’s not as important as it is in the iPad. I really
⏹️ ▶️ John hope the next iPad Air does have two gigs, because it’s just that the
⏹️ ▶️ John assets and everything there are just so much bigger in terms of texture sizes and all this stuff. It’s not like there’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a dedicated pool of VRAM hanging off the side of this thing. So
⏹️ ▶️ John the RAM situation is more dire, and I think with a giant screen and the power constraints are more
⏹️ ▶️ John are much bigger on the iPhone. But I mean, how long can we keep this up? How long do we go
⏹️ ▶️ John with one gig? This has got to be the last generation, right? And I hope next, I mean, they’re not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to do this because it’s SOC thing. But like I mentioned, they went to, OK, and the iPhone 6S or whatever the heck they’re going to
⏹️ ▶️ John call it has two gigs of RAM, except for in the low end model, which has 16 gigs of flash. And
⏹️ ▶️ John anyway, they won’t do that probably. But yeah, they have to pick some.
⏹️ ▶️ John What can you differentiate? They come in colors, but those those will cost the same. They use the storage sizes
⏹️ ▶️ John as their tiering structure for making you pay more money and to help their margins. And and now the
⏹️ ▶️ John screen sizes. Yeah, well, the screen size to the screen size. I don’t think they’re using the screen size for tiering
⏹️ ▶️ John because the bigger screen just really does cost more like not $100 more. But
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s kind of like their increment. You know what
⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s like, well, you know, that’s that’s especially since like
⏹️ ▶️ John people will pay more for a larger television. Like they understand you will pay more money because it’s bigger and has a bigger screen. That’s,
⏹️ ▶️ John that’s, that’s a thing that people already accept. Storage sizes is kind of like the thing that they
⏹️ ▶️ John will differentiate on the people don’t really understand. Like people don’t even know the difference between RAM and flash storage. And they said, this is what
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re going to use as our dial to make you pay more money.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So John, if you were to get an iPhone, which I’m assuming that you have no interest in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey still hypothetically, which model would you be getting?
⏹️ ▶️ John I have a lot of interest if they don’t ever update the iPod Touch again. Suddenly my interest becomes very great,
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t it? Yeah, I would go for a 64, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, 4.7 inch iPhone 6. I’m going to have to wait until they get into the store. I’m not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to pre-order or anything like that. I have to wait until they get into the store. Have to try it in my hands. You know, it’s like I really do like the rounded edges
⏹️ ▶️ John because I never liked how the five design, I like how this one looks and it’s sort of it’s in the black front sort of glamour
⏹️ ▶️ John shots that they make. And I like the idea of how I think it’s going to feel in my hand because of
⏹️ ▶️ John the rounded edges. So I’m, uh, I like this design. I like this phone. I just don’t know if it’ll be
⏹️ ▶️ John too big. Uh, and if they do rev the iPod, that’s presumably it will be big anyway. So size may
⏹️ ▶️ John not be a factor because you know, like I won’t have a choice. Like I can’t keep
⏹️ ▶️ John using this, this old iPod touch. The battery’s getting a little wonky.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So wait, so all three of us agree that the phone that we choose
⏹️ ▶️ Casey would be a 64 gig, well, presumably different colors, but 64 gig 4.7 inch
⏹️ ▶️ John No, we’d all get the same color.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Black. Oh, I thought, Marco, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco white one. Tiff has a white one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was considering white and then I didn’t get it. And I actually, I like the new, like, because the black on the 5 was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco way too dark, but in the 5S, the new space gray color, it’s more like a gunmetal color. That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very nice. I like that a lot.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, I love the space gray on my 5S. Now,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey one thing I’d like to quickly talk about is, do we know, is Tiff going to upgrade
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and do we know what she’s going to get? Because I saw a lot of tweets fly by about her trying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the paper cutouts in different jeans and so on and so forth.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was curious, has she concluded yet?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think she has. We’ll have to have her on at some point. Maybe next week she’ll be there right now, but maybe next week I’ll have her on.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or Tiff, if you’re listening, please come in and tell us. I would get,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the problem, this is a problem that especially a lot of women are going to have. If you’ve been keeping your phone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in your pocket, because women’s clothing usually, if it has pockets at all, which is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not always a given, if it has pockets at all, usually they’re smaller. So Tiff always keeps the pockets,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tiff always keeps her phone in her jeans. And the front pocket is almost never big enough. So she usually just keeps
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the back pocket. And it’s like, we’ll have to have her tell tell you all about this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But basically, it really is not a good fit. The 5.5
⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t even come close to fitting. And even the 4.7 no longer fits like it either
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it will either stick out visibly at the top. Or, like it, or you got to like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco put it in like only one pocket in such a way that it makes us giant long rectangle put long
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways. It’s weird. So I have a feeling this is going to be an issue,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially for women. I think we’re going to have to see how the market shakes
⏹️ ▶️ Marco out. We’re going to have to see how these sell. And Apple’s going to have to see. I’m sure they’re going to be looking at their stores to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco see how many people who would have otherwise bought the bigger one
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go with the iPhone 5s instead because it’s smaller. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope they’re watching that. I’m sure they will. because I’m guessing there’s going to be a lot of people who actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco prefer the smaller size, especially women.
⏹️ ▶️ John You mean like the smaller is in the 5S size or the 4 point? No, I think they’re going to sell
⏹️ ▶️ John a ton of the 4.7 inch sixes. Like that will be their best selling model, kind of like last
⏹️ ▶️ John gen. The 5S was the best selling model way over the 5C and people seem surprised by that.
⏹️ ▶️ John My prediction for this set of models is that the 4.7 and 6 will
⏹️ ▶️ John be the best selling model.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Really quickly, a couple more thoughts on the iPhone Plus. Firstly, do you remember the title of the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey very, very, very first episode of ATP? Did we call it iPhone Plus?
⏹️ ▶️ John We sure did. Yeah, it was the iPhone math, remember? That’s right. And what
⏹️ ▶️ John we said that it was likely a mistranslation of iPhone Plus. Even the name leaked on this thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was like two years ago. I am pretty proud of us for that. This was February 7th of 2013. But
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone plus the iPhone six plus. To be technical.
⏹️ ▶️ John we didn’t quite get it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey names. And then what do you guys think about? And I’m going to start with Marco. The
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you when you go to landscape on the iPhone six plus, you get a split view controller
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if if the app that you’re using supports that. How does that make you feel
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have an iPad that isn’t an iPad?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s smart. I mean, I, you know, the iPhone, first of all, designing an
⏹️ ▶️ Marco app for iPhone landscape views has always been challenging, especially if you have to support text input,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the iPhone landscape view with a keyboard up, you basically have no space.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, you know, it’s always been tricky to design that. The iPhone 6 Plus has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much space in both dimensions, but especially in that height dimension. so much space
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that if you see if you saw any other normal interface scaled to that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco without the split view style it’s gonna look ridiculously weirdly wide and short and so I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think what that what that’s doing is just like it isn’t necessarily like oh we’re gonna bring
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the iPad to this I think it’s more like we have to solve this really weird interface situation here
⏹️ ▶️ Marco how what tools do we have that we can do that with and so that that’s what I think they’re doing there
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with that? Like they’re there. First of all, it is a differentiator. It is a way to get people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to buy the bigger one to say, like, Look, the apps are a little bit better in these ways, you know, so that that helps.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think ultimately, it’s just about like, how do we make apps not look weird on this?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, all those all those API’s WWDC talking about the adapter sizing stream. We all know. I mean, again, talking
⏹️ ▶️ John about Apple leak this itself, essentially, like we all knew it was coming. They told us a million sessions that
⏹️ ▶️ John we’re going to be, you know, they had. If you just watch this, if they’re free to watch, watch those WWDC sessions.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s obvious what they’re talking about. And no one was surprised that, oh, hey, look, when
⏹️ ▶️ John you rotate a different thing, it’s suddenly this panel, like they told you how to do that. And he was like,
⏹️ ▶️ John this seems strange. When would this come in handy? Hmm, you know, it was, they were in an awkward situation where they had to
⏹️ ▶️ John tell developers how to adjust their layouts for what we knew were going to be differently sized phones. And
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the features was, you know, some elements might not even appear if the width is compact or whatever the size
⏹️ ▶️ John class thing is, right? So timing-wise, it must have been weird for them to do that. But every developer
⏹️ ▶️ John knew it was coming. And I think users won’t really, like, users don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John care about that stuff as much as we think they do in terms of what it requires. So maybe it was like, oh, if you get the big phone,
⏹️ ▶️ John you get this better stuff. And they don’t even know if it’s the same app, as far as they’re concerned. Or they might think, like Casey just kind of said, like, oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John this is an iPad. No, it’s not an iPad app. Like, they don’t need to know anything about adaptive layouts. They don’t need to know anything about size
⏹️ ▶️ John classes. They just know you buy this product, your experience is different. especially like with the wide keyboard, with the
⏹️ ▶️ John weird, you know, larger keys on the side for doing doodles and the larger emoji key, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know, whatever other things they had there. The fact that those buttons are there is gonna be a selling point. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John oh, well, this one has the keyboard with the little buttons. Like, I don’t know. I feel like the people who want this big phone already know they
⏹️ ▶️ John want it, and this is all just gonna be icing for them. And Apple is wise to continue to evolve
⏹️ ▶️ John its UI toolkit, for lack of a better word, to handle
⏹️ ▶️ John differently sized screens. They crept on it bit by bit, and now they’re essentially entering a world where
⏹️ ▶️ John we can make flat rectangular screens with rounded corners of any size, and your app should run on them.
⏹️ ▶️ John And the only thing left is the weird gap between iPad and iPhone apps.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I wonder if eventually they’ll get to the point. Because if you look at their products now, if you line them up, it’s a series of little rectangles
⏹️ ▶️ John with screens on them that scale nicely from really small to really big. It’s a pretty smooth stair
⏹️ ▶️ John step. And yet, you have to draw this red line. Oh, well, this is an iPad app. And these are iPhone apps. And
⏹️ ▶️ John that red line will start to get thinner over the next few years, because eventually it’ll be like,
⏹️ ▶️ John look, you’re just making iOS apps. And they adapt themselves to whatever size screen they’re on. And there’s no artificial
⏹️ ▶️ John distinction between iPad and iPhone app anymore. We’re not there yet, but check back in three
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and I think the message of WWDC couldn’t have been more clear on that front, too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like, your apps should stop caring about whether they’re running on an iPad or an iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And you should instead just read these collections of traits to know, oh, well, this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a small, horizontal, but big vertical screen or something like that. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to basically bring responsive design to apps. And Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has been absolutely clear that is the way to go now and in the future.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the implication, of course, is because we’re gonna have this big variety of hardware. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now we’ve seen the beginning half of that, I think we’re gonna continue to see that when the new iPads are announced, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that resizable app thing becomes a part of the iPad OS, it’ll use the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco same kind of system, and that’s just as important then. I
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the multitasking thing where you split the screen and have one thing on one side, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, like if that ever ships, it’s gonna be an even bigger draw for this sort of thing. And I think like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, for developers, the message could not be more clear. Build universal apps, and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use this kind of responsive design. They couldn’t be more clear about that. And if your business model depends on having
⏹️ ▶️ Marco separate iPhone and iPad apps, you should probably figure out a way around that really soon.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, even now, just the iPhone 6 Plus next to an iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John mini, try explaining to a regular person that, well, this is an iPad app, and it only works on this rectangle.
⏹️ ▶️ John And it won’t work at all on that rectangle. It’d be like, what? These are practically the same thing. It’s like, oh, no, that’s an iPad, and
⏹️ ▶️ John this is an iPhone. They’d be like, because it makes phone calls, it can’t run. I don’t understand. And yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ John the direction is clear. that that confusion will be cleared up. Maybe cleared up sooner than we think. For all we know,
⏹️ ▶️ John the new iPads come out and Apple says, oh, and by the way, you can’t ever upload an iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John only app anymore. All your apps have to be that. I think it’s still a ways off, but like Apple could do that if they were in a hurry. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ John think they’re in a hurry, but at this point it’s silly. With the iPhone 6 Plus and the iPad
⏹️ ▶️ John mini both in Apple’s line, the division between them makes no sense.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. All right, let’s make some money and then talk about some money.
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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So there’s a way to pay for things with your
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, this is gonna be really interesting I think. Like this is, so you know, first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco First of all, yes we all know that NFC is not new, that Apple
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not the first one to do this, they won’t be the last ones to do this, we know Android was there first,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we know probably things were there before Android even, we know NFC is very popular in some parts of the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco world, we know the US payment system is horrible and outdated, and yes we still even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco use checks sometimes which is horrendous. So all that aside, I think this is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a great move. I hope it gets a lot of adoption. And I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think if it does, I think this might actually be more important than the watch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco long term for Apple. I think they’re going to end up making some money
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from it, no question, you know, because they are, they’re getting a surcharge off of each transaction. But it’s not very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much money based on most of the reports we’ve seen. It’s a very, very small surcharge. They make it up in volume,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or want to anyway. And they yeah and there will be a if this actually works there will be a lot
⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s the question what makes anyone think this has any more chance of working and becoming widespread than any
⏹️ ▶️ John of the past efforts or passbook for that matter?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well I think the biggest reason first of all you know passbook was a tough sell
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because passbook didn’t really offer either side massive benefits.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like it wasn’t that easier that much easier it didn’t like it was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pain to implement slightly, you know, because you had to do something instead of nothing. So like you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had you had to like do special support to implement it on the service side. And then like on the user side,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s like this weird app that they go in and it kind of like you got to like download find the link somewhere in your confirmation
⏹️ ▶️ Marco email that says download to passbook if they even had that which they usually didn’t. And I feel like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the benefits there were not big enough for the for for all the work on both sides to be worth it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for most people. Whereas for this, I feel like, you know, if this actually
⏹️ ▶️ Marco works the way it’s advertised and granted the video was hilarious in how like the doing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it wrong side of the video
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey how that was bad so it’s comical
⏹️ ▶️ Casey no it was not comical it was embarrassing how bad it
⏹️ ▶️ John was i like when they asked for it she asked for id and a swipe doesn’t work on the first time two things that almost never
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was so it was so uncomfortable
⏹️ ▶️ John an example of apple like what you want is it apple to be fair like in like when when
⏹️ ▶️ John Steve Jobs put up the picture of what phones look like with all the different keyboards. That was fair. Those were good publicity shots
⏹️ ▶️ John of those actual popular phones. It was not finding the ugliest phones in the world and putting them up to show how nice yours looks next
⏹️ ▶️ John to it. It was like, these are the popular phones now, and then we’re going to show you the iPhone, and it’s different than
⏹️ ▶️ John them. This was not a fair comparison. This does not accurately represent
⏹️ ▶️ John the inconvenience of using a credit card in America.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right. And that’s the thing, is that this is one of those parts of the keynote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey where I was just sitting there and I wanted to crawl into a hole because it was so ridiculous. I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was like kind of embarrassed just watching it. And I’m probably being a bit dramatic, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the thing of it is, is that Apple keynotes or events, whatever we’re calling this, are usually so spot
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on and so good. And this was just awkward.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. Most of it was great, but this part was just really awkward. So
⏹️ ▶️ John for the success rate of this thing over Passbook. I ask that mostly just to, you know, to throw
⏹️ ▶️ John that out there. I think this will be more successful than Passbook. And I think the main reason is
⏹️ ▶️ John this is all, again, totally US-centric. And like Marco said, we all know about chip cards. We all know how backwards
⏹️ ▶️ John we are. Yes, yes, yes. We live in America. We care about our backwardness getting fixed, not how awesome it is in your
⏹️ ▶️ John amazing country. Anyway. So if we don’t speak your language,
⏹️ ▶️ John we’d move there if we did. Anyway, Anyway, the
⏹️ ▶️ John reason this is going to work is because of the massive concentration
⏹️ ▶️ John of power in the US payment industry to these few big banks and few big credit
⏹️ ▶️ John card companies, most of which Apple seems to have cut a deal with. So right there, you’ve got just
⏹️ ▶️ John huge. It’s kind of like when Apple did a deal for iTunes. They just got whatever is the big five record labels or whatever there were.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s all they needed to do deals with because they covered it. They covered most of the music people cared about. Well, there
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple is doing deals with, you know, MasterCard, Visa, like Bank of America, like they’re just covering
⏹️ ▶️ John a huge portion of the entire market just by doing deals with these gigantic companies that have
⏹️ ▶️ John what probably should be illegal levels of power and concentration
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And anyway, that makes it on the retail side, too. There’s a similar like if you know, the US
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so much based on like the big chain stores that all you need are a handful of the big chains
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have a massive footprint of the transactions that happen in the US every day. And then, then
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can start getting more support from the smaller people just because, well, we have all these people using this, you’ll benefit from this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco blah blah blah, you
⏹️ ▶️ John know. Yeah, and that’s what they need to make it work is you need to like, it’s not the it’s not the thing in the phone, it’s not the
⏹️ ▶️ John software, it’s not NFC, what it is is that stupid ugly reader thing. That is the most important part of
⏹️ ▶️ John this product as a solution for people, is that stupid ugly reader thing. That stupid little NFC
⏹️ ▶️ John reader and the, you know, and the way it’s hooked up and that has to be in millions
⏹️ ▶️ John and millions of places. That is the hard part of this project. Not the, like you said, people are putting NFC in phones forever.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like it’s so easy to do all those other parts. The hard part is to cut the deal with all the people. So they say,
⏹️ ▶️ John use our payment thingy, accept our, you know, like payment tokens, put these things
⏹️ ▶️ John in all of your stores. Like that is the hard part. That’s the biggest, kind of like the Amazon level
⏹️ ▶️ John type of thing where they’re like, or even Google, like we’re gonna scan every book in the world, or we’re gonna make self-driving cars or whatever. This is
⏹️ ▶️ John one of the first things that I’ve seen Apple sort of dip its toe into of saying, we’re going to try to do this big thing
⏹️ ▶️ John because it doesn’t work unless those little scanners are all over the place, hooked up to Apple service. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John them cutting the deal with the big credit card companies so that you’ll be able to make something that you can pay with
⏹️ ▶️ John and it will connect to your bank or your credit card or whatever, that’s one half. But then the other half is getting these
⏹️ ▶️ John little scanners in a bunch of stores hooked up to those things. And I think the amount of stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John that they’ve announced in this deal is probably just barely enough,
⏹️ ▶️ John maybe, maybe barely enough to get them over the hump. Because you need some kind of critical mass if this doesn’t want to become like
⏹️ ▶️ John Passport. Even though Passport was, oh, didn’t they get all the airlines? People don’t fly every day. And even if they do,
⏹️ ▶️ John the airlines were kind of spotty in the beginning about whether that was there. And people weren’t, you know, like, is this really,
⏹️ ▶️ John you really need to get some critical mass before, until this, for this to become something that
⏹️ ▶️ John is more than just a curiosity that a bunch of rich people do in San Francisco when they go to Whole Foods, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, well and the timing of this is actually amazingly good because
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the US, like there’s finally now a big movement to move to chip and pin ever since what I believe was
⏹️ ▶️ Marco started out as the Target credit card hack thing where like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I apologize to whoever was talking about this and I overheard it on a podcast and I forgot who it was, but basically
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the last couple years there have been so many massive scale credit card hacks in the US, especially the big target
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one, that like it’s finally getting so expensive for the credit card processors to deal with all the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco resulting fraud and everything that they’re now finally pushing the US to adopt chip and
⏹️ ▶️ John the fraud rate like the fraud rate has been really low and it has gone up slightly with these hacks like but all it takes
⏹️ ▶️ John is for the fraud rate to go up slightly for these business credit card companies you know live and die based on their you know terrible fees that
⏹️ ▶️ John they charge you, their crazy you know interest rates but also
⏹️ ▶️ John the fraud rates and so the fraud rate goes up 1% that is enough for them to say all right finally we have to get
⏹️ ▶️ John rid of this stupid magnetic stripe stuff and like there’s a big turnover in that type of like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John the reason they drag their feet like everything we have now is fine why would we invest in changing it all you need is the
⏹️ ▶️ John fraud rate to take up like a percent or two and suddenly it becomes economically feasible to go to something better
⏹️ ▶️ John and it’s I suppose there’s a competition between the little chip things they have in the rest of the civilized world
⏹️ ▶️ John and something like this NFC
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing Exactly. And that’s why I think because this shift is finally happening
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the US, and because what you said earlier about the concentration of power in the US being such that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the US is a fairly straightforward market to dominate if you can get a handful of people on board,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s why I think this has a very good chance of succeeding. Because all those credit card terminals all over the place
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are going to have to get upgraded in the next few years anyway. And so they’re probably going to get upgraded to something that supports NFC
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if NFC is widely out there, which now it will be.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So do you think it’ll be socially awkward to do this to be early
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on in the Apple Pay adoption?
⏹️ ▶️ John No, I don’t think so. I because I mean, think of the convenience just trumps
⏹️ ▶️ John everything. Like do you remember when the little kiosk where you had to swipe your own card first
⏹️ ▶️ John came out? Oh, yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John Right. And it was a change and everyone just got used to it. And that was it. Do you have one of those little dongle things that
⏹️ ▶️ John you use at the gas station so you don’t to swipe your card? No, no. I have one of those. I’ve had one of those for
⏹️ ▶️ John what, 10, 15 years. They are awesome. You get one. You never go back to the old way.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like, and this is the equivalent of that. As soon as people can like rub some part of their purse or whatever up against
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing and pay for things. Oh my goodness.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you’re going to rub your purse against the gas pump.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah. Okay. You know what I mean? Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John like the convenience of just like the like it is so much easier than the
⏹️ ▶️ John and even though the video is ridiculous, like oh it’s so hard to get cards out of all I just really expected eggshells to crack
⏹️ ▶️ John on top of the person’s hair when she was doing that like like from the infomercials
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah spill the person
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John floor yeah just oh
⏹️ ▶️ John things are everywhere anyway as silly as that is this is kind of like the whole iWatch thing we talked about before
⏹️ ▶️ John taking away the the need to rummage through your purse to pull out the card to hand
⏹️ ▶️ John it to the person to hand it to back they didn’t show the part of signing which some places still make you do do the stupid signature on the thing
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. That’s decreased a lot lately without requiring sign but like that little dance
⏹️ ▶️ John is not that inconvenient. But if you can cut most of it out, it is addicting
⏹️ ▶️ John to be able to do that. It is nice. Why would you ever like it’s like, Okay, that wasn’t a problem.
⏹️ ▶️ John I had no problem doing that. But this is slightly more convenient. What is the reason you would
⏹️ ▶️ John ever go back to the other way? And this actually has, as they pointed out many times, like, you know, this has advantages over the old way
⏹️ ▶️ John in that you don’t have to give your credit card number to anybody. They don’t have to know anything about you, your name, like using the
⏹️ ▶️ John tokens is more secure reveals less information to Apple. Anyway, the credit card company still knows what
⏹️ ▶️ John you bought, where and when but you know, it’s not Apple’s not helping with that. But they’re not
⏹️ ▶️ John it is a potentially more secure, which is why everybody likes it reduce fraud and everything service that is
⏹️ ▶️ John more convenient to you. And it’s not that it’s going to be such a life changing thing. It’s just the once once that
⏹️ ▶️ John is an option for you, you will never like you will never go to one of the stores that has that option and say,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know what, I want to dig my credit card out of my wallet instead. You just won’t. What’s the point? There’s no upside. And so
⏹️ ▶️ John it will just completely switch over to doing it the more convenient way. If they can get these things in enough places, it will
⏹️ ▶️ John hopefully not be a novelty, but more like be like the default for the three stores
⏹️ ▶️ John that you, where I shop for my groceries, where I go for my home supplies or whatever.
⏹️ ▶️ John If the three or four stores you frequent all have this, it will just become the way you pay for things. I think
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s going to be an interesting challenge for them to get in enough locations fast enough for this not to be some
⏹️ ▶️ John weird again a curiosity that is only in a few places.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also like think about the lock-in effects they have once this is everywhere. You know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not gonna force everyone to buy iPhones but it will make it harder to ever move away from an iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s gonna be like one more thing that if you have an iPhone and you’re thinking about switching to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some new Android hotness or whatever you’ll have to think about oh you know then I won’t be able to use this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the exact same way. And even if the other thing supports NFC, you’d be like, well, it might be different. It might not work as well. I
⏹️ ▶️ John wonder what kind of lock-in they’re really getting, because the hardware is capable of doing anything. So if
⏹️ ▶️ John Android does some sort of thing and Google does stuff with payment processor, there’s no reason that other companies couldn’t strike the
⏹️ ▶️ John same deals. And presumably, if the hardware is there, it is a business and
⏹️ ▶️ John software decision. Once the readers are everywhere, I don’t think Apple has any particular
⏹️ ▶️ John lock-in to those readers, because those readers could be repurposed to read payments from Android phones just
⏹️ ▶️ John as easily. So it’s more of a can other companies, you know, do the deals with
⏹️ ▶️ John with all of the credit card companies and banks and retailers in the same way that Apple has done?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, yeah. I’m not saying they can’t, but I’m saying like you like you, not you, but most people as users
⏹️ ▶️ Marco might consider that like, oh, I’ve gotten used to waving my iPhone in front of this and using Touch ID to do this.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco If I move to Android phone, it might not work that well, or it might be different or it might not work at all. you know, depending on the setup
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything like even I know, of course, these are standard NFC things and I know that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like other things will work with it, but there will be that kind of psychological lock in effect like that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one more thing about my life that will that I will have to change if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and possibly lose if I switch and and the watch will get to the watch. But the watch is exactly
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same. It has exactly the same effect, which is like this is one more thing that’s going to that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m going to have to change if I switch away from this?
⏹️ ▶️ John As someone pointed in the chat rooms, the Touch ID is a factor in this because it gives Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John the rate that you get if the credit card is present at the transaction. You have a lower, there’s a lower
⏹️ ▶️ John surcharge than if you just are entering the number. And these are all weird details,
⏹️ ▶️ John investigations of the credit card processing industry. But basically, Apple can make better deals because
⏹️ ▶️ John it was able to convince the credit card companies that Touch ID is a sufficiently secure thing that they should get the
⏹️ ▶️ John same rate that someone gets if they physically have the card there with them. So you won’t need to have your credit card with you, but Apple will
⏹️ ▶️ John pay the smaller surcharge and like basically, you know, Apple is doing what it does best making deals with the big companies
⏹️ ▶️ John making deals that are as favorable as possible to it that also make their partners happy and
⏹️ ▶️ John using technology to do that because Apple pay only works from devices that have touch ID or
⏹️ ▶️ John devices that require a device that has touch ID like the watch and Android will find a much
⏹️ ▶️ John harder time doing that because even if they come out with something like Touch ID, it will be forever or possibly
⏹️ ▶️ John never that it is everywhere on every Android device. Like it’s so much harder to make penetration versus like this, Apple’s
⏹️ ▶️ John already got, what are they, was it 200 million? I think, I don’t know if they were talking about the fives, the stuff that worked the watch already.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, 200 million was the number of iPhone 5 and above
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, so the 5S’s and the 6’s, very soon, a huge number
⏹️ ▶️ John of iOS devices will have Touch ID. Touch ID is a big strategic advantage to Apple when it comes to stuff
⏹️ ▶️ John like this, because it is another factor in the authentication soup. And it’s helping Apple make better deals.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I think it will actually help people feel slightly better about doing
⏹️ ▶️ John this transaction. Like, it’s not just, oh, if you steal my phone, you can buy things. You can’t unless you have their
⏹️ ▶️ John thumbprint or whatever. And just from repeatedly unlocking my wife’s phone with Touch
⏹️ ▶️ John ID and repeatedly redoing the stupid Touch ID every time I put a new build of iOS 8 on it, which kind of annoys me,
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m a big fan of Touch ID. I have great success rates. I think it is. We wondered when it first came out, will this
⏹️ ▶️ John be good enough to be like, will it be like Siri where it’s like, well, you play with it for a while, but then you realize the success rate
⏹️ ▶️ John is too low for you to really trust it for anything. Touch ID, I feel like it’s totally crossed that bar. I trust it
⏹️ ▶️ John for the intended purpose. It works. If it ever misses, I try it like it’s convenience trumps
⏹️ ▶️ John the whatever small percentage of failure rate that I get on it. Just don’t try to use it when you come out of the shower because your skin is all floppy
⏹️ ▶️ John and it doesn’t work.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now before we move on, somebody did find Tiff and in fact it was Drunk Casey, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so Drunk Casey alerted Tiff to our call earlier to see if she could come in and she saw it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and she now is in and if we are still interested in hearing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one woman’s opinion on the iPhone sizes, you want to put her on?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s fine. All right. Hey, guys, what’s up? Hi.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’d asked earlier what your conclusion was about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which phone you’re going to potentially get because you used trying the phone on
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as a convenient excuse to show the internet your butt. And so I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was curious if you reached a conclusion. Well, I
⏹️ ▶️ Casey did enjoy showing the internet my butt. I asked Marco if it’d be okay and he’s like, I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Exactly. I was just gonna say the same thing. You don’t have to
⏹️ ▶️ John ask him permission. It’s your butt. You do what you want with
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would like him to ask me permission if he wanted to show the internet his butt. He doesn’t. You know, it’s a give and take kind of thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But no, I think my conclusion is that I might stick with the phone I have. Because…
⏹️ ▶️ John What? Like a crazy person, you’re gonna use the same iPhone for two years? I know,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like… I don’t know, because it’s just gonna be so big.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I mean, I mean, I thought that this one, I was appalled by how light it felt at first,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, when you got the new one, the most recent new one, what is this? The five something was this five s
⏹️ ▶️ John you probably appalled by the lightness when you got the five because that’s when it got taller. And it was also very light compared to the four s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, like anytime it changes. I’m like, this is the worst. And then you know, when the new IO iOS
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I’m saying the right things, right? Yeah, when that came on, and it all looked like all candy pop. And I’m like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is terrible, too. Everything’s ruined. And so I hated everything. And then I like, you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, had it for two weeks. And I looked at my old phone. I’m like, this phone is so old. Why? Why did
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I ever want that old phone? It’s the worst. So I have a little bit of that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey still in my mind that I might, you know, look at it, look back and be like, Oh, that little phone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey was so old. You know, once I get the bigger one, being bigger, I mean, like the 4.7.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So the five five is in a no fly zone is out of the question out of the question. I can’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my hand. I I mean, you can’t like scroll all the way. I can’t even reach the other side of the phone.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m holding the paper right now, looking at it with my little lady thumb, and I’ll drop it. Marco’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey little man throne can’t reach the home button.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey everything is weensy on Marco. That’s to be expected. He’s dainty.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh man, I was about to ask you something that would totally derail. Okay, so the theory
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, sitting here now on a Wednesday night, before the pre-order, You are going
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to ask Marco to preorder nothing to get you nothing. And then if,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if Marco ends up coming back with the four seven, what do you think the chances are that you’re going to look at it and say,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Holy crap, I need that. Um, probably a 70% chance that I’ll say that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I need that because I can’t help it. I like having the new stuff. Uh, but
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. I just like my little, I like being able to just, it’s in my pocket and it’s small. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like I discussed on Twitter and showed everyone on Twitter that my pockets are small and it doesn’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, my phone currently barely fits in there.
⏹️ ▶️ John Do you do you really keep your iPhone in your back pocket and then sit down with it? I really do. And you sit down and
⏹️ ▶️ John share a hard chairs with the iPhone in your back.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, it depends on the surface is from sitting down on a soft chair. It stays in. If it’s a hard chair, it comes out.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I evaluate, you know, depending on the situation. That sounds like way too much work. I know it
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is. If I’m at the park, it usually comes out and into my front pocket because I’m like up and down with the, you know, with our
⏹️ ▶️ Casey son. So it’s, it’s in and out plus the sand, you know, usually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey have it out. Fair enough. And since you’re here and I presume you’re about to be banished, thought immediate
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thoughts on whether or not you would desire an eye or an Apple watch. I almost did it too. I like wearing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey jewelry too much to kind of mess that all up. I think my accessories, I decide
⏹️ ▶️ Casey to choose what I’m wearing. You know, that’s just the type of girl that I am. I never was at watch wear.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t think I would get into it,
⏹️ ▶️ John but but see previous comments about Marco getting something new and shiny
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but I mean come on if I had if I got the big phone and I can’t oh He’s putting it on my wrist. Is that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the little one? That looks kind of nice That one’s too big. Yeah,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey ooh that may I might be changing my mind. The gold one looks nice Marco. We should do that one
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s pretty thick yeah, I don’t know Well, if I got the big phone, then the big phone might end up living in
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my purse. And I could take it out when you know, our son is sleeping and I could do Twitter on it. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I need notifications, it could be right on my wrist. So that’s convenient.
⏹️ ▶️ John And you could send Marco your heartbeat.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. And you know, we could draw little doodles that are important. All right, before
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I lose all capacity to be an adult. So we’re saying no fly zone for the five
⏹️ ▶️ Casey five tentative yes on the four seven and tentative yes on the Apple Watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, yeah, because if the pocket situation
⏹️ ▶️ Casey gets too brutal, I might need to go to the watch for notifications for, you know, like little text message and stuff. So I know
⏹️ ▶️ Casey when to take my phone out of the purse.
⏹️ ▶️ John Plus, you’d buy like all the bands so you could have a choice each day.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, yeah, that’s what I’d have to do if I were to get the watch because it needs to match. But then you
⏹️ ▶️ Casey can only you had then I have to get two faces because one’s gold and one silver. So depends
⏹️ ▶️ John on faces. That’s two watches.
⏹️ ▶️ John feel free to get two. Some people wear both at once.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco’s over there. He’s rubbing his eyes and like holding his head. He’s like, Oh, God. Why
⏹️ ▶️ Casey wouldn’t you have a day watch and a night watch, Tiff? I know. I mean, come on.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Alrighty. Well, thank you for the feminine influence for tonight.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, you’re very welcome. Here is Dainty Marco back.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, man, I don’t think we get away with calling him Dainty Marco. Hi.
⏹️ ▶️ John Such a good idea to have your wife on the show, isn’t it, Marco? I can see you regretting it in the background.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, that was great. I can’t wait to hear the your no sitting there. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wasn’t concerned about like having to buy multiple devices. I was thinking like, Oh my god,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m gonna have to wait on like, five different lines to get all the watches that we’re gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John at all the different bands. Yes. Yeah. Alright, so let’s let’s talk about some.
⏹️ ▶️ John Are we done with Apple pay?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, one one quick observation. I know this doesn’t relate to iCloud. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is kind of funny to me that after all of this
⏹️ ▶️ Casey angst and agita about iCloud just what a week or two ago, now Apple’s saying to the world,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey yes, trust us with your credit cards and trust us with your with all of this, we will be okay.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I mean, I understand because I’m an engineer, that one is not really related to the other. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is kind of funny to me that there wasn’t even like even a snicker or a nod to the fact
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that there was all sorts of iCloud agita just a week week or two ago.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I mean, yeah, first of all, I think the geeks, even people who are extremely critical
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Apple, know that like, okay, well, the credit cards aren’t being stored in iCloud
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and stuff like that. Right. Like, there’s like, even that, like, it’s hard to argue, you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, like falsehoods about that being related or not related. Secondly, people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a very short memory with this kind of stuff. Very, very short. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, Apple Pay isn’t even out yet. not going to launch for at least another like month and a half. It is they said October.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s right now early September. That might be like Halloween when it launches like it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or it might be November and like oh well you know we started launching it in October like they’re like that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s long enough away that the celebrity nude hack thing is going to be forgotten. People have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco already forgotten. You can yeah it’s a week old and they’ve
⏹️ ▶️ John forgotten yeah not that we’re saying that they should and it’s not a big deal but reality wise like that that type
⏹️ ▶️ John of news story, the cycle that it the news cycle that it’s in will turn over 97 times
⏹️ ▶️ John for that. I think it could still be in the back of people’s minds. But you know, for Apple Pay
⏹️ ▶️ John in particular, Apple has a good story to tell customers. The story unfortunately involves credit card
⏹️ ▶️ John companies and banks knowing everything they currently know and, and you know, but as you say, well, at least Apple is not
⏹️ ▶️ John adding another party that’s going to know everything because Apple is not participating in that information exchange and
⏹️ ▶️ John has no, no reason to it doesn’t base its business model around having that information
⏹️ ▶️ John or controlling it or selling or anything. It doesn’t even want it. Everybody else still has it. People are totally OK
⏹️ ▶️ John with that now with credit cards, it seems, except for the people who only pay for everything with cash. So
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that’ll be a non-factor, at least in Apple Pay.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Do you want to whine about the iPod Touch and or iPod Classic? Anyone?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the best follow up is like we were just trying to predict like one or two episodes ago, like, oh, the iPod Classic is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be around forever. They’re never going to kill it. And then yesterday they killed it.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, no, we said they could kill it at any time when we always expect them to. And so far they haven’t, you know, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go. It really is remarkable that they did kill it. Like of all of all the changes they made yesterday
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to everything, to their site, to their store, like how did how was that a high enough priority to even be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco removed from the site?
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s nice and symbolic if you want to go into their whole like, oh, the revolutionary input methods to finally retire
⏹️ ▶️ John the last. Well, I guess does the Nano have a click wheel? They didn’t retire the last one with the click wheel, I guess.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know what I mean? Like the wheel. Anyway, it’s like phasing out of the original iPod
⏹️ ▶️ John form factor. And also all that’s left now is the nano and the shuffle and the touch, which isn’t really an iPod.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. All right. So let’s talk about this Apple Watch, which, by the way, don’t call it an iWatch.
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s going to be difficult. I’ll slowly train myself out of it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Why? Why do you think we’re abandoning the i?
⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe it’s kind of dated. It’s not so much just that it’s dated. I think it may be
⏹️ ▶️ John misguided because I understand why they’re doing it. But
⏹️ ▶️ John using generics is not a great way to do it. It’s kind of the same reason that car makers all move to the BMW
⏹️ ▶️ John Mercedes naming convention. We’ve talked about this back on neutral.
⏹️ ▶️ John So a BMW has a series of numbers and letters, and Mercedes has numbers
⏹️ ▶️ John and letters as well. Audi has A and then followed by a number
⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. But when Acura came into the luxury car business, which is Honda’s luxury
⏹️ ▶️ John brand, they had the Acura Legend and the Acura Integra. And what happened
⏹️ ▶️ John is that people would refer to their Legend or their Integra, they wouldn’t say the word Acura. And that’s
⏹️ ▶️ John bad, so the theory goes, for Acura brand recognition. So Acura changed all its cars
⏹️ ▶️ John from the Legend and the Integra to a series of nonsensical letters like TL and RSX, and
⏹️ ▶️ John also kind of made its car scrappier too. But anyway, that’s another story for a different podcast. The
⏹️ ▶️ John theory being that if you give your cars names that are just a bunch of alphabet soup
⏹️ ▶️ John or numbers, people will have to say the word Acura more, and the word Acura will be in their mind more.
⏹️ ▶️ John So by calling your things the Apple Watch, and Apple Pay, and the Apple TV,
⏹️ ▶️ John it makes people say Apple repeatedly, or associate these products more with Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John You say iPod, iWatch, there’s the possibility in the mind, again in the mind
⏹️ ▶️ John of marketers and maybe in reality, that people don’t even understand who makes the iPod. Is that Microsoft?
⏹️ ▶️ John They know iPod, they know iPhone, they might know iWatch, but to the really casual person,
⏹️ ▶️ John connecting that all back to Apple requires a leap of brand knowledge which may or may not be as strong
⏹️ ▶️ John as Apple would like it to be. Now Apple does have a tremendously strong brand, one of the strongest brands in the entire world. not
⏹️ ▶️ John a problem for them, but I can see some marketer in a meeting saying this
⏹️ ▶️ John will really help people continue to hammer the word Apple into their mind. Oh you want to pay with
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Pay instead of saying I pay? Oh you have an Apple Watch? Is that your Apple TV?
⏹️ ▶️ John The reason I think it might not be a great idea is because they’re using generics. Watch, TV,
⏹️ ▶️ John Pay, Mail. I hate Apple Mail. Every time I write an OS X review I have to write Apple Mail because I
⏹️ ▶️ John just write mail with a capital letter. People think I misplaced a capital letter or something.
⏹️ ▶️ John Or am I talking about mail, like the internet, as a concept? No, I’m talking about I’m never going to write
⏹️ ▶️ John mail.app because screw file name extensions. So
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I always have to say Apple Mail.
⏹️ ▶️ John Using a generic Apple Watch,
⏹️ ▶️ John it would be better. In that respect, I think iPad and iPod is not great with the
⏹️ ▶️ John A and the O or whatever. I think iPod and iPhone are
⏹️ ▶️ John better than a generic because you can’t just say watch by itself. You have to say Apple watch.
⏹️ ▶️ John So I think I see what they’re going for, but to me it feels a lot like Mac book where it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like it. I still think Mac book is dumb. I still think power book was a better name, but in that case they were getting the Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John name out there. It’s an iMac. It’s in Mac book. You know it’s a Mac. next
⏹️ ▶️ John computer will be the Apple Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey instead of just Mac
⏹️ ▶️ John because it’s not enough to you know that’s that’s my theory behind it. The Apple 15. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ Marco not a fan. I mean a couple things like I mean first of all Apple TV did this too.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was like when it was in development it was called ITV in fact they even called it ITV. They went through the similar
⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing where like people were first referring to it as the ITV and then when it was released it was released as the Apple TV and it
⏹️ ▶️ John That was the BBC or that was a BBC
⏹️ ▶️ John know, one of those various things, UK people, you need more things to correct us on, there you go.
⏹️ ▶️ John Whatever that ITV thing that you guys have that made us not be able to call it ITV.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, so there was that, whereas I think it sounds weird
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yesterday and today. Apple TV doesn’t sound weird to me anymore, it sounded weird the first day. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think we’ll get over it quickly. Secondly, I don’t think it’s quite as much
⏹️ ▶️ Marco about trying to boost the Apple brand. I think that’s part of it. But I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think another big part of it is fashion. It is high fashion and high
⏹️ ▶️ Marco fashion branding. As a society, we’re okay having phones in our pockets
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and taking them out occasionally, and having computers in our bags and taking them out when we’re using them. When you’re wearing something
⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the time, like all day, every day, you’re wearing something on you. That is jewelry, that is an accessory. The
⏹️ ▶️ Marco standards are so much higher for what people are willing to wear than
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they’re willing to carry in their pocket. And iWatch kind of sounds geeky.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like to me, iWatch sounds nerdy. It’s you know, CamelCase itself is pretty nerdy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it just kind of like that sounds nerdy to me. Whereas Apple Watch sounds
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a higher class brand name. Even though I know it’s a trick in certain
⏹️ ▶️ Marco ways, but it just sounds like iWatch is a geek thing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Apple watch is a fashion
⏹️ ▶️ John thing. They really wanted to go fashion they should have called it watch by Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John The weird thing about fashion is we talked about this before I think like the the tolerance for being
⏹️ ▶️ John a billboard is strangely high in the fashion world because and maybe I’m still getting this wrong I think I got
⏹️ ▶️ John it wrong another showing and I re get it wrong people can recorrect me the whole idea being that you can’t copyright or
⏹️ ▶️ John otherwise protect the intellectual property of a design of something like a purse or a shoe. But you can protect
⏹️ ▶️ John your logo, because that’s your trademark. So they put their logos all over everything. And so now logos
⏹️ ▶️ John become part of the design, because you know you have a, we need Tiff to come back and tell me, Louis Vuitton bag
⏹️ ▶️ John or something with a little logo all over it. And that becomes like a pattern. The logo
⏹️ ▶️ John itself becomes fashion. And so it’s like Apple doesn’t put their logos, there’s a logo on the back of
⏹️ ▶️ John the phone, but not on the front. And on the Apple Watch, I don’t think, was there a logo anywhere on that thing? I think on the back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has a little Apple.
⏹️ ▶️ John But Rolex has the little Rolex symbol and the word Rolex and Louis Vuitton bags and all those other things
⏹️ ▶️ John are just covered with things like that. And Apple does not have its logo everywhere.
⏹️ ▶️ John They say the logo is on the back engraved. Anyway, I said watch by
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple, but that’s like, it doesn’t have a name like a product. And I think maybe
⏹️ ▶️ John it could benefit from one, especially if it’s gonna be like a high-end watch, because all these Rolexes, like it’s a product name
⏹️ ▶️ John for the type of watch. I don’t know enough about high-end watches to know, but like, you can’t just say watch by itself. You have
⏹️ ▶️ John to say Apple Watch every time, and it’s a little bit of a mouthful. Is that your watch? Yeah, it’s an
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Watch. You’re right that iWatch sounds geekier, but Apple Watch just seems like kind
⏹️ ▶️ John of a mouthful and kind of generic and boring. Like even Swatch is better. Is that a Swatch?
⏹️ ▶️ John Like that’s a brand too, but it’s just, you know, a sub-brand of some Swiss company that makes, you know what I mean? Like, I don’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I’m not, I really wish, I almost wish it’d be called I wish his iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John like has worked out really well. Don’t you think iPhone has worked out well? Like I granted is more of a geek product, but I
⏹️ ▶️ John think. Because this is fashion, that’s maybe a reason not to make it
⏹️ ▶️ John so geeky, but it’s geeky fashion. I mean, we’ll get to this when we talk about the thing itself, but like there’s no escaping
⏹️ ▶️ John it. The iPhone was a geeky kind of phone and eventually everybody had phone. But everyone is totally comfortable to having their iPhone.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sure. Well, but also that was seven years ago. And so not only is that name coming
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from a different era, but it might even be played out.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the I mean, I’m not saying that I had to go on forever. I’m not a great fan of the eye either. But like we will.
⏹️ ▶️ John Here’s what we’ll find out if this goes all I touchy, you know, the same way everyone calls the iPod touch the I touch
⏹️ ▶️ John because they just like no Apple, we do not accept your name. It’s an eye touch forever and ever. So creepy. People could
⏹️ ▶️ John choose to just call this the I watch. I mean, we’re doing it accidentally because we’ve been calling it the I watch for a long time.
⏹️ ▶️ John We’ll probably come around because we’re the kind of geeks who care about what things are named. But just let’s convene
⏹️ ▶️ John back if this watch has been out for six months and see if everybody you know still calls it an iWatch or if they
⏹️ ▶️ John call it because Macbook caught on people said Macbook but people did not say iPod touch they say itouch right
⏹️ ▶️ John so we’ll see how this goes really it’s not it’s not up to us and it’s not up to Apple’s marketers whether this
⏹️ ▶️ John gets pulled off is up to the world at large and that the little thing with the Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John logo and then the word and then you know writing it out once sometimes then having the little logo
⏹️ ▶️ John with the thing in it always struck me as weird with Apple TV. We’re all used to
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Everyone knows how they’re going to do it. You know, the rule is you just write it out the long way if you’re writing about it. But if you want to make it
⏹️ ▶️ John as like a little logo mark or whatever the word is, you put the little Apple logo and the thing next to it and the small caps
⏹️ ▶️ John for watch. Also not a fan of that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that’s that’s just stylization in the in the marketing materials. That’s not the name
⏹️ ▶️ John I know, but it’s not the strike. He was weird like I can’t think of I guess. I mean, technically Apple did it for Apple TV, but TV is always,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, caps or small caps, so it doesn’t look as weird there.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I would. I wouldn’t put too much thought into that. I mean, technically, five s the s is lowercase, but we all write
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah. But it just it just seems like you like naming to
⏹️ ▶️ John be like a nice, clean win. And lately, the naming has been.
⏹️ ▶️ John Weird, not consistent with itself, and
⏹️ ▶️ John there’s always some little problem.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So do you think in the next year or two that the iPhone will become the Apple phone?
⏹️ ▶️ John of? Because there’s just too much brand equity in iPhone. It’s a great name.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, iPhone is established. When are we going
⏹️ ▶️ John to give up numbers? Yeah, that’s coming sooner than that, I think. The number thing,
⏹️ ▶️ John like again, talk about the naming stuff, ditching it for the iPad for being the new iPad because they want to stop doing it. But
⏹️ ▶️ John like, the time is coming for the end of iPhone numbers. I don’t think they’re going to go too
⏹️ ▶️ John far into double digits with the iPhone because it will just start seeming. I don’t think they’ll get to double digits.
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, because people will just lose track. Do you have the iPhone 13 or nine or 10? Like, it’s just like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, it wouldn’t surprise me if they did make it at least like to eight or nine, because like the public
⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of names these for them. Like, remember when I blogged briefly about like when the forest came out
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everyone freaked out because it wasn’t the iPhone five.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like the response was so incredibly brutal unnecessarily
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and unfairly brutal because the 4s was like quote not the real iPhone 5
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or like or not an iPhone 5 and so the next year even though the iPhone 5 was the sixth iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco they called it iPhone 5 because everybody was demanding iPhone 5
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and their entire world was calling it iPhone 5 before it was even announced and so they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just adopted that because it was probably presumed, you know, to be better for overall brand recognition
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, this year it’s the iPhone six. Next
⏹️ ▶️ Marco year I assume they’re gonna do a success. And after that, they’re probably gonna do a seven.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think they can make it easily into seven, eight, and possibly even nine. I just feel like once you start getting
⏹️ ▶️ John to doubles, the numbers start to blur in people’s minds. And they can’t really like it’s easier for people to remember 567 than for them to remember
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but if we keep having these s steps that we still have like like eight more years
⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve got they’ve got time I mean like they like ditching them on the iPad has
⏹️ ▶️ John has worked out more or less like people don’t care you know iPad iPad air
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it is but that’s all that that also came with like a massive revision like we’ll see like you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what are they gonna call this Falls iPad like the the latest rumor is that the retina mini won’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even be updated and there’s gonna be like basically an iPad Air 2. Well, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that gonna be the name? Is it gonna be the iPad Air, you know, in parentheses, late 2014?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, what’s it gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John They haven’t been renaming the Mac Pro. It’s not the Mac Pro 2, the Mac Pro 3. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey all work out. The difference though with these products is that phones seem to get upgraded either
⏹️ ▶️ Casey annually if you’re impatient and spoiled or biannually, at least in the US, biannually
⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re a normal person. Does that mean every other year?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Don’t go into that.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. So the point is, it means both. I think you mean, I think you mean fortnightly. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what I mean, though? So, for annually, the thing is that the these other products like the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad, generally speaking, those aren’t upgraded on an annual or
⏹️ ▶️ Casey every couple year basis, unlike a phone. And so I think having the numbers
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the phone makes a little more sense and it will be harder to get rid of than on an iPad, which you may
⏹️ ▶️ Casey only upgrade every two to three years.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we shall see. We went off on a long tangent. Let’s talk about the watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that we are now two hours in and we haven’t talked about the watch really yet. People are going
⏹️ ▶️ John So when I was watching this video, I know there’s going to be I was pretty
⏹️ ▶️ John sure there’s going to be a watch. They did the one more thing which I don’t get distracted on. I think it’s fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John You know, if you’re going to hold it back for something, this is what you hold it back for. I don’t really care what Steve Jobs would have thought
⏹️ ▶️ John about them using it was the whole idea is they’re supposed to do what they think is right. They thought this was right. I thought it was fine. This is a significant
⏹️ ▶️ John product. Then they showed the little intro video. Tim
⏹️ ▶️ John Cook talked about it and he’s like, and this is so important. It’s a new product category. He didn’t say it was a watch or anything like
⏹️ ▶️ John that. He’s like, and here it is. And you see the video and this is going to be your first glimpse of this thing. And they show
⏹️ ▶️ John you closeups of parts of it. You can’t tell what’s what. So they showed the sensors in the back. And you couldn’t,
⏹️ ▶️ John they look crazy. What the hell is this? Some sort of alien device. and they show you the little crown but you don’t know it’s the crown
⏹️ ▶️ John yet and it looks really weird and so watching
⏹️ ▶️ John this video I thought the little details they’re showing were really cool like this is something unexpected
⏹️ ▶️ John this does not look like any watch I’ve seen and it’s kind of like one of those things at the back of the was like yeah
⏹️ ▶️ John Games magazine anyway one of those kids magazines where they show you an extreme close-up of something you have to guess what it is and
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s hard to tell because it’s really close up that’s what the beginning of this video was for and when they like
⏹️ ▶️ John in the third or fourth shot when they finally show you the watch itself and it rotates into view. My first
⏹️ ▶️ John impression immediate was disappointment that it looked like a smartwatch. That
⏹️ ▶️ John was my immediate first impression. What was your guys reaction to that?
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Same. I I was starting to feel more and more smug about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey my own theory that it wouldn’t look like a pebble or anything like that, and it would be more about sensors
⏹️ ▶️ Casey than anything else. And it’s sort of about sensors. But I was way off base. And
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was hoping for and expecting something that looked totally different. And I think, and you touched
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on this, the digital crown, that’s sort of different in that it’s using something
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we already know, but in a very different way. But I was surprised to see that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it didn’t look that wild. However, the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bands, when they showed those, I actually got surprisingly excited about those. I thought they all looked
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really cool and it was clever the way that they have the little slide in and out
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in order to change them. So
⏹️ ▶️ John what was your first gut reaction? It rotates into view, you finally see what it looks like, what do you think immediately?
⏹️ ▶️ John Not what you think now, but what did you just feel that second?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I completely agree with Casey, basically. When I first saw it,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco at first, actually a few days beforehand, a few days ago, some site leaked
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like some cad drawing of what turned out to be exactly right, a CAD drawing of the watch’s body.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it was like the the EVT, the engineering test drawing of something like that. And so when I saw that,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was disappointed. Oh, man, it’s just like a lumpy rectangle. Like I was hoping either for a round face
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or for a really like, minimal thin kind of design, like some something else that didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco look like the other smartwatches. And I think, you know, that all of us
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the tech business, I’ve been drafting a blog post about this that I’m still to finish but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco before the iPad came out, I made this post. Basically we
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were all calling it the tablet, I think because Gruber started calling it the tablet. And we knew there was a tablet that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was very heavily rumored, but we didn’t know anything about it. And this was December of 2009, about a
⏹️ ▶️ Marco month before the iPad was actually announced. And during this time, I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco made a couple of posts and one of them I was saying like, the big problem with tablets is input.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco How is Apple going to solve the input problem? And virtual keyboards aren’t
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mediocre, physical keyboards are clunky with a tablet. And I went through all the different things, like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they could do. And my conclusion was basically like, they’re probably
⏹️ ▶️ Marco just going to do something I haven’t thought of. And a few other people
⏹️ ▶️ Marco had similar thoughts and were writing about that. And then you actually, John,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I found an article by you on ours called Antacid Tablet that I’ll just paste it in the chat
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m going to link to. And you basically said, yeah, there’s a common notion
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that Apple is going to have to do something crazy but they probably won’t and they’ll probably just use existing stuff
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that we all know about and just do it well. And that’s what happened. And it turned out the iPad
⏹️ ▶️ Marco came out and they didn’t invent any crazy new input mechanism. They just did
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the ones we knew about well. And it had problems, like input
⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the iPad is challenging, keyboards on the iPad are still an unsolved problem. It
⏹️ ▶️ Marco has these shortcomings, but Apple just kind of punted, like, well, we don’t really know how, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco whenever people say, oh, well, they’ll have to just come up with something we can’t think of.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The number of times Apple has come up with something we are not thinking of is actually pretty low.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Usually they do things that people have thought of before and they just do them better.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not made of like crazy gods they’re made of people and it’s like chances
⏹️ ▶️ Marco are if you can’t think of a practical like reasonable doable way
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to solve a problem they probably can’t either and so we saw a lot of that leading up
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this leading up to this watch thing where we saw tons of people we know and ourselves even
⏹️ ▶️ Marco included things just saying things like well you know you can look at smartwatches that are out there and they have a number of problems is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mainly size, battery life, and display, and interaction,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco really. And so it’s very, very challenging to try to figure out how to interact
⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a screen this small that is going to be functionally so busy, like have so many
⏹️ ▶️ Marco functions on it. You can’t just cover the thing in buttons, that’s weird. You can’t do much with a touch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco screen, because it’s so small. And if it is an LCD screen, if it is a touch screen, then you
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have battery challenges, which you already have battery challenges to begin with, and that makes it even harder.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so you take this thing and, so we were all saying, well, they’re gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do something we haven’t thought of yet. They’re gonna solve the battery issue or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the display issue. They’re gonna have a weird display that wraps around the whole thing, or somebody doesn’t even have a display, or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s probably not gonna just gonna be a square LCD, like a touch screen like everyone else has.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Then it comes out and it is what everyone else has. It’s just done better. And so,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was disappointed to see that. I was disappointed to see, well,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve been relatively uninterested in all these smart watches so far. And part
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of this is I don’t wear a watch. I mean, I wore a watch in middle school, but I haven’t worn one since then.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s a bigger jump for me to go from no watch to a watch. But
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was disappointed that they didn’t come up with some magic, but I also can’t fault them for it because like, well, I don’t know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they should have done instead of this. I think a round one would have looked better, but otherwise, it still would have
⏹️ ▶️ Marco been probably large. And like, look, I printed out paper printouts of these two,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the small one looks better on my wrist,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think. See, I don’t know, fashion-wise, are men allowed to wear the small one? I don’t even know.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, that there’d be a lot of men who would pick the small one.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this the small one like looking at them now it is it does look nicer on
⏹️ ▶️ Marco my wrist but I’m worried that I won’t be able to see anything on the screen because it is noticeably smaller
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I you know so that that I think will be a problem for for anybody who picks the small one that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it does fit noticeably like it is substantially smaller in person and also the biggest
⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem with these to me is that they’re just so tall they’re they’re thick and that I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco think is gonna to be challenging fashion-wise to get around. Now that being said,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can go back, probably you can pick some time in history and you can say, well, seeing a big
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone rectangle in your pocket is unfashionable. And these days, it doesn’t matter nearly as much because everybody’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco carrying around phone rectangles and everybody who has owned any given pair of jeans for more than about two
⏹️ ▶️ Marco months you can probably see a slight wear outline in the phone rectangle pocket.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can see where they keep their phone. And that’s just become acceptable because we’ve all decided that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s worth carrying these devices around. So maybe like to me the iWatch,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sorry, to me the Apple Watch, it looks big and chunky to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me. But I like we might decide as a society that’s worth doing. But for
⏹️ ▶️ Marco now, I similar to Casey, I saw it and I thought, you know, that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s bigger than that’s bigger, thicker and more square than I would have preferred.
⏹️ ▶️ John I was excited to see Tim Cook echo very closely on
⏹️ ▶️ John stage that what I said when we talked about the iWatch on a recent, not that recent show or whatever. We
⏹️ ▶️ John talked about all the other existing watches. And I’m like, whatever Apple does, all these things that these Android
⏹️ ▶️ John devices are doing, you can’t just take
⏹️ ▶️ John a smartphone, shrink it down, and shove it on your wrist, which is what all these Android devices were doing. And
⏹️ ▶️ John it was just like this Android Wear, or even a lot of the Motorola watch. like, take our existing smartphone,
⏹️ ▶️ John OS and interface, squish it down. Now you have a little tiny smartphone on your wrist. That just does not work. It’s terrible.
⏹️ ▶️ John Can’t do it. And Tim Cook said as much on stage. And he was talking about it in terms of the software, of
⏹️ ▶️ John like, you can’t just take your iPhone and shrink it down. He was talking entirely about, you can’t just take an iPhone app, so you can’t have pinch to
⏹️ ▶️ John zoom. You can’t have all the same UI. You can’t have all this stuff. So I was like, right on, Tim. We agree there.
⏹️ ▶️ John Where we differ, and it gets back to my initial gut reaction to the phone is looking like a little,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, Airstream trailer on your wrist and a little rectangle and just the whole thing is that
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought what they would go for is something that technology doesn’t exist
⏹️ ▶️ John for now, but will eventually. And that is like we knew
⏹️ ▶️ John it was going to be big. We knew it was going to be thicker than you would think it was. And by the way, big, thick, chunky watches, I think,
⏹️ ▶️ John have been in fashion at various times, at least for men. So that’s not even that big of a deal. But when you have something like
⏹️ ▶️ John that like okay well it’s got to be big because reasons XYZ the screen and battery life big thick battery
⏹️ ▶️ John you can try to minimize that by making the transition between the strap
⏹️ ▶️ John and the thing be less abrupt because a
⏹️ ▶️ John a thin strap that goes into the edge of your little Airstream trailer and your wrist highlights the fact that the
⏹️ ▶️ John thing is thick and the strap is thin again totally expected replaceable straps totally
⏹️ ▶️ John I mean even again with the getting back to the naked robotic core thing, like, like, kind of like Fitbit does. If you
⏹️ ▶️ John ever Fitbit, you know they give you this little, they give you an actual little naked robotic core and it shoves into the little rubberized
⏹️ ▶️ John wrist thing. Not that I’m saying Apple is gonna make a rubberized Fitbit type thing, but the same type of idea that the
⏹️ ▶️ John overall shape, you’d have replaceable bands, perhaps a replaceable everything, and the only thing, the iWatch part
⏹️ ▶️ John of it would be a literal naked robotic core that slid into this thing, and you try to minimize the fact that it’s so darn
⏹️ ▶️ John thick by, by tapering it somehow. I’m sure they investigated this or whatever and probably what they came up with was,
⏹️ ▶️ John look, we know how to make rounded rectangles with screens on top really well.
⏹️ ▶️ John Let the thing be true to itself. It is a little tiny rounded rectangle. It has a CPU in it, it has a screen on
⏹️ ▶️ John top, it has a battery, it’s a little sandwich. We know we’re gonna make it thinner as time goes on. Let’s
⏹️ ▶️ John just stick with this design now. But it just really does look like a lunchbox on your wrist. And they can make
⏹️ ▶️ John it fancy all they want and they can put a comically oversized crown on it as a UI thing and
⏹️ ▶️ John have it be off-center with a big giant button. And we know this will all shrink down, but
⏹️ ▶️ John I was really expecting them to try to mask the fact
⏹️ ▶️ John that it’s so big. And instead, they’ve essentially—and this is a totally John I. Moody—embraced
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Like, this is the watch. This is the thing. It’s a metal thing. We can make it shiny and nice and make
⏹️ ▶️ John the details nice. And we’ll have these straps Intersected in the middle so the thickness is kind of minified
⏹️ ▶️ John because if you have the straps in the bottom The whole Airstream trailer will be poking up on your wrist. That’s why when people put it on they say
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, it doesn’t look that thick. It’s not so bad There it’s just that they are
⏹️ ▶️ John not they are not trying to smoothly transition from the watch let alone the crazy mock-ups that
⏹️ ▶️ John had like oh the whole thing is a screen and like it’ll be longer till we get that or whatever so they can revise that when they want to
⏹️ ▶️ John but This this design is definitely
⏹️ ▶️ John more jarring in and on a macro scale than then
⏹️ ▶️ John I would have liked but on the micro scale is everything you would have expected of Apple the UI itself and the details
⏹️ ▶️ John of it the way the screen works even though with the transition between the screen and the case and the little gentle curve and
⏹️ ▶️ John and the force push on the thing like every other detail of it that they’ve done I’m very impressed with
⏹️ ▶️ John they are basically showing everybody else this is how you do a smartwatch you do not shrink iPhone apps down on them it has to be totally
⏹️ ▶️ John new interface. It has to be a companion to the phone for now. We’re not gonna put
⏹️ ▶️ John people asking why the hell doesn’t have a lightning port. I think that’s obvious. You don’t want any place
⏹️ ▶️ John where there are contacts that you can, you know, a splash of water can get up inside. You don’t want crap to collect. And then bottom
⏹️ ▶️ John line, lightning port takes it takes up a huge amount of space relative to the size of that watch where something has to go in.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s hollow space and you have to put, you know, forget it. Lightning port was out, the inductive charging is very clever.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like everything else about it I’m totally on board with. It’s just that it’s a little,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, little lunch box on your wrist with a very nice strap around it. And that is,
⏹️ ▶️ John like I said, when we tweeted in the presentation, I want to fast forward right now to the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ John 4S design of this. So go fast. However many generations that is, it’s going to look a lot better like
⏹️ ▶️ John three or four years from now. Now it totally looks like, I think even the first
⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone look better. I mean, there’s obvious similarities because they’re both kind of rounded lozenge type things. But
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, it’s funny, the thing that I’m, that I keep thinking about
⏹️ ▶️ Casey with regard to the Apple Watch, other than, I don’t get why I would want this. And as I’ve said numerous
⏹️ ▶️ Casey times in the past, anytime I say that I end up wanting it. But the other thing,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the other thing I was thinking about is it looks to me to be extremely
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thick and I don’t think I’d be into that. And so
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I completely agree with you, John, that I’ve got to assume over the next couple of years
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’ll get thinner and thinner and thinner. And that’s starting to sound more appealing to
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, like I said, I don’t know enough about watches, but I do know that I have seen some ridiculously thick,
⏹️ ▶️ John like, normal watches on people. And I think that is a fashion thing. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John at various times in history, and we may be in one of them now, that comically thick watches
⏹️ ▶️ John were not embarrassing right that they were you know that it was something you wanted to have that it
⏹️ ▶️ John was manly that it was exciting that it was interesting not only thick but huge
⏹️ ▶️ John having this come in two sizes that was the best part of the announcement like oh thank God because the
⏹️ ▶️ John size of this thing it’s like people have different size wrists you cannot put something that big it’s not gonna look good on everybody
⏹️ ▶️ John having a smaller one it’s hopefully the battery life is is reasonable on it shows they understand
⏹️ ▶️ John And there’s a limit to the size of the screen you can put on your wrist and not
⏹️ ▶️ John feel ridiculous until the screens get much thinner and much, you know, like the futuristic sort of giant
⏹️ ▶️ John holo band thing that has, you know, we’re not there yet, right? So I’m glad that they have a smaller version.
⏹️ ▶️ John But I think the thickness, I mean, I don’t know. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John trying to think, will this be a barrier? Other than me just saying like, I wish they had like minimized it so it didn’t look so bad.
⏹️ ▶️ John wondering if thickness will bother anybody who’s interested in a smartwatch. Because if you’re interested at all in
⏹️ ▶️ John a smartwatch, this one’s fine. Like it looks better than all the other smartwatches I’ve seen in terms of the
⏹️ ▶️ John details. It is not any more ridiculous than the existing lunch boxes on your wrists that are
⏹️ ▶️ John out there. Maybe the Motorola one has a little bit more panache because it’s round, sort
⏹️ ▶️ John of flat, tiry round. But I think the Motorola one looks like looks
⏹️ ▶️ John bigger and more like I’ve seen women wearing the Motorola. what was it called 360 or something? Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John That their imaginative name not as good as watch. That’s a name that they should come up with a name like that. Anyway, uh,
⏹️ ▶️ John that one I think looks, I mean, I think they did an excellent job in their publicity shots of
⏹️ ▶️ John showing real people wearing the watch in a way that it looks normal. And I was just amazed that I’m like, do they Photoshop
⏹️ ▶️ John that? Is that really how the watch looks? Because all those beautiful people wearing the watch and those shots
⏹️ ▶️ John of like, you know, joggers or the person holding a baby or say like all those people,
⏹️ ▶️ John the watches just look normal on their wrist and it almost made me think like that it had to be fake because they did not look like ridiculous
⏹️ ▶️ John smartwatches and that’s what everyone says who puts it on that they may look huge on Apple’s website when it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John gigantic floating Airstream trailer coming at you but on your wrist it does not look as ridiculous. I
⏹️ ▶️ John still think it looked a little ridiculous on Johnny Ive and Tim like sometimes you could see the watch was so heavy that it was like rotating
⏹️ ▶️ John around their wrists you know from the weight of the watch was like twisting the band on their arm and some of the bands like
⏹️ ▶️ John that big glaring white like the bands look really thick and chunky too even you know
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know I don’t as a fashion accessory I think they’re doing everything they can with the current
⏹️ ▶️ John technology but I was very surprised by the conventionalness
⏹️ ▶️ John of the of the design
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah like it you guys like we were all expecting something radically different from the other ones and it really
⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t that radically different from the other ones. It’s just better.
⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t think it needed to be radically different. I’m just like, it’s a design choice. You could they could make like technology wise, they could
⏹️ ▶️ John make the thing that I’m envisioning still has replaceable straps, but like tapered so that like
⏹️ ▶️ John so they’re envisioning the time when the difference between the strap and the watch will start to go away. Now we know
⏹️ ▶️ John there is a huge difference in the strap and the watch and Apple has chosen to embrace that difference and say we are not going to mask
⏹️ ▶️ John that difference. We’re not going to hide it. We’re going to say yes, there’s the strap and there’s the watch and the watch is actually
⏹️ ▶️ John much thicker than the strap and there’s no getting around that and we’re going to own up to it and here it
⏹️ ▶️ John is as opposed to a more tapered type solution within the same technology it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not asking for a giant curve screen that goes around the whole thing or anything crazy like that like I think you know it’s just
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just the design choice and that’s more of a I’m surprised by a style choice which
⏹️ ▶️ John really I shouldn’t have been in retrospect in terms of that’s the type of style they’ve you know they’ve expressed
⏹️ ▶️ John interest in before especially Johnny Ive with like the flower iMac and everything like that, of letting the base be true to
⏹️ ▶️ John itself down on the ground, letting the thing float in the air. It’s just a different direction they could have gone.
⏹️ ▶️ John And I think the rectangularness also of the screen and the fact that
⏹️ ▶️ John the crown is off center, like there’s a lot of this surprising amount of asymmetry for a Johnny Ive design,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I wanted to quickly go back to a point you made earlier about traditional watches that are sometimes big in a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey fashion statement. And that doesn’t really bother me when I see
⏹️ ▶️ Casey like a Panerai or something that’s just really, really big. And I think the reason is,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey is because we’ve seen that there are watches, you know, regular traditional watches that are really,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really small. And so, it’s obvious to me that when you have a really big watch, that’s a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey deliberate choice by that watch manufacturer that they want to make this large, because
⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve seen small ones and they know they exist. Conversely, we’ve never seen a
⏹️ ▶️ Casey really tiny smartwatch or whatever we’re calling these, and the
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Watch appears to be big because it’s out of necessity. And I think that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Casey why it doesn’t look innately good like a Panerai or a Rolex or something
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we’ve seen mock-ups of smartwatches that are small, like the technology doesn’t exist for us
⏹️ ▶️ John to do. But most of those mock-ups aren’t as usable as Apple’s because the bottom line is, is
⏹️ ▶️ John you need some place, like I’ve talked about it on the past shows, like if you made one of those mock-ups, like how
⏹️ ▶️ John the hell would you deal with the screen? Is it just one, like you just swipe, like those ones that look like the screen curves
⏹️ ▶️ John halfway around your wrist, how would you deal with that? Would you scroll and flick and like move, like the
⏹️ ▶️ John dial as in like a physical thing that you can, you know, interact
⏹️ ▶️ John with the watch and manipulate what’s on the screen without covering what’s on the screen in a secure way where you’re not going
⏹️ ▶️ John to accidentally start rotating the watch around your wrist or anything like that. an important feature. Like those are
⏹️ ▶️ John problems that they’re solving, not in like ways that no one could have thought of because as many people want it, like the BlackBerry
⏹️ ▶️ John had the various dials and the little balls and stuff like that. Like this is well trod territory for small devices of
⏹️ ▶️ John how you interact with them without touching the screen. But Apple is the first one
⏹️ ▶️ John to just I think what’s on the screen is just as important. Like the interface they’re choosing to do
⏹️ ▶️ John the sort of minimal interface. It doesn’t look like anything like an iPhone interface. It’s entirely new UI with entirely
⏹️ ▶️ John new controls and entirely new way of interacting with it and all that stuff. That is where
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s obvious. That and the physical design of the little dial and everything is where Apple has spent all its time
⏹️ ▶️ John because you like someone, ABC News reporter asked them in one of these exclusive interviews like it’s so hard
⏹️ ▶️ John making something when that a lot of people are going to have to use but people don’t get to use it until you make it. I’m like
⏹️ ▶️ John you dummy like they’ve been using this thing in Apple for like God knows how many years. That’s all they do is
⏹️ ▶️ John use it. Just using it and use it like crazy. They seriously, you know, how many prototypes is they’re sitting
⏹️ ▶️ John there, like that’s all they do is use them. They’re not guessing that this dial situation is gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John work out. They’ve used it for like a year, two years, God knows how long, and they threw away all the ones that didn’t
⏹️ ▶️ John work and this is the best one they can, you know, so I have faith that they have made good decisions about this because it’s
⏹️ ▶️ John not like they rushed this out to, rushed this out to get into the smartphone market like some other, smart
⏹️ ▶️ John watch market like some other companies.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do have one concern about the, well, I have a number of concerns, but one of my concerns with just
⏹️ ▶️ Marco me personally using it, you know, until this point, if I’m walking down the street or if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sitting in the subway or if I’m otherwise in public, you can’t know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what technology I own unless I have it out. This is always
⏹️ ▶️ John out. I don’t know about that. I think you have a, we can’t know what kind of technology you own.
⏹️ ▶️ John Hmm, black t-shirt, jeans. You know what I mean? I think you’re
⏹️ ▶️ John not as stealth as you think you are. down to the rectangle worn into your pants pockets. That’s true.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, and the BMW M5 that you just got out of.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, even that I get that in black, so it’s less conspicuous. Oh
⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah, it’s totally less. You’re right. It’s
⏹️ ▶️ John a very inconspicuous car with ridiculously huge wheels
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and enormous mouth. And yeah, you’re totally right, Marco. And additionally, how often do you go walking
⏹️ ▶️ Casey down the street in Manhattan, just whistling and looking
⏹️ ▶️ John When I’m walking around my home and next to Wayne Manor and yeah, all right.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but so my concern is partially like, you know, being mugged
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and partially being obnoxious. Like it will wear I mean and I’m sure in time
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this will probably become less of an issue just like how you know like I remember when I when I first
⏹️ ▶️ Marco got got my first Discman, my first portable CD player.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco My mom advised me not to show it out any time because people would get mugged for their Discman.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Same problem with every portable electronics thing that became popular and that thieves started learning
⏹️ ▶️ Marco was valuable. The New York City subway for years was advising people not
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to use the stock Apple white earbuds because that was a clear signal to anyone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco around you that you had an expensive Apple device in your pocket. And they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco were telling you, leave it in your pocket, don’t take it out. And so I think
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is gonna have similar issues as that, where this is going to
⏹️ ▶️ Marco telegraph to everybody, not only do I have an iPhone in my pocket, because this only works with iPhones, but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing itself is expensive and possibly made of gold and other things. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s always out there. I mean, you can wear long sleeves maybe, but otherwise, for the most part, this is always gonna
⏹️ ▶️ Marco be there. And so, it both screams mug me, and it also screams
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m a nerd at first, and maybe over time that will get less. So I hope it does,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I’m sure Apple hopes it does.
⏹️ ▶️ John It totally will. Remember what it was like to use a smartphone in public when the iPhone first came out? Oh, you have an iPhone?
⏹️ ▶️ John Now nobody cares you have an iPhone. I mean, except for muggers, but whatever. Worrying about being robbed
⏹️ ▶️ John is kind of silly, because whatever. If you have nice things, people are going to want to steal them. Robbery rates
⏹️ ▶️ John have been going down for years. You’ll be OK. The embarrassment just among your peers of
⏹️ ▶️ John being that guy. Even think of the first person to use a Bluetooth, one of those Bluetooth headphone things
⏹️ ▶️ John talking to the cell phone. You look like you’re talking to yourself. People got over that, and that still amazes me. I think people will get
⏹️ ▶️ John over the watch if they sell a lot of them. You just got to sell a lot of them. Now, the weird part, and I tweeted this as
⏹️ ▶️ John well during the thing of like, oh, Apple Watch starts at $349. And I said, that’s great. That’s where
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Watch starts. Where does Apple Watch end? That’s a good question. And people
⏹️ ▶️ John were people were continuing to talk as soon as I put that price up. I asked that question on Twitter. And today people are still talking
⏹️ ▶️ John about it. So what do you guys think? Where? What is the if you bought the most expensive
⏹️ ▶️ John Apple Watch, how much would it cost you?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we’re talking about the the edition edition. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ John you assume that’s gonna be the most expensive. But anyway, just what’s what’s the number three starts at 350? Where does it stop?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a hard time seeing them going above a thousand for the watch itself. I mean, we’ll see what
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the band, you know, some of the bands will be premium. Some of them will be more pedestrianly priced.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m guessing if you get the edition edition and get like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of reasonable band for it, I’m guessing you’re spending over a thousand, but not by a whole lot.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, that’s the question. We don’t even know if the band is separate. Like when they said it starts at 349, I assume
⏹️ ▶️ John that gets you a watch in a band, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would bet Not but we’ll see or maybe maybe it gets like the really crappy like nylon band or whatever and then it’s like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco do anything Good, you got to spend like another hundred bucks or whatever on the band. Who knows? We’ll see. I
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It would not surprise me to see the gold ones cross a thousand But it would surprise me to see them go
⏹️ ▶️ Marco very far past it Casey
⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think with watch and band together You’re gonna look at between one and two thousand for
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything that Apple offers
⏹️ ▶️ John for the top end one you mean?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we’re not talking about aftermarket obviously someone’s gonna buy this put diamond diamonds all over and do silly things like that so
⏹️ ▶️ John on Twitter Dr.. Wave said it was asking if it was gonna be over a thousand I said
⏹️ ▶️ John gotta be definitely over a thousand That’s the gimme the question is how far above a thousand
⏹️ ▶️ John the thing. I don’t know about is What kind of I?
⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t know how much like just the cost of the gold on the gold ones is like I don’t do the math to figure out like the plating
⏹️ ▶️ John and all the other just stuff like just just getting down to brass tacks of like what are the parts here because Once you start using
⏹️ ▶️ John precious metals like even before you consider markup There’s some minimum amount that it’s gonna go so I really have no
⏹️ ▶️ John idea on that, but I say definitely over a thousand 2,000 I
⏹️ ▶️ John think if you bought the best watch in all the bands you could break 2,000 but
⏹️ ▶️ John one watch in one band I do not expect it to be over 2,000 But I admit fully admit that I have no idea
⏹️ ▶️ John how much jewelry costs or gold costs or anything about that that. So and here’s the thing, here’s
⏹️ ▶️ John what it gets down to, though, is like, luxury items like jewelry or not just really, but like, you know,
⏹️ ▶️ John fancy watches are not priced based on the materials put into them. That’s like when you pay 30 grand for a watch, there’s not 30
⏹️ ▶️ John grand worth of material or labor in that right. The price is wholly disconnected from the parts,
⏹️ ▶️ John the labor or any other part of it is is just is just the price has to do with.
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not I mean, even Ferrari so closer connection between the parts, the labor and the price of them because
⏹️ ▶️ John they use expensive exotic materials and a lot of labor to put them together. There is a closer
⏹️ ▶️ John connection between that but the watch is just totally nonsensical. I mean anything with fashion
⏹️ ▶️ John like that dress does not cost you know $20,000 just doesn’t period right?
⏹️ ▶️ John You’re paying for something else and I do not feel like Apple is going to price
⏹️ ▶️ John any of its products nor has it really ever priced any of its products that disconnected from the parts and labor that go
⏹️ ▶️ John into it. They’re going to have big margins sometimes margins are ridiculous like they were on the 20th anniversary
⏹️ ▶️ John Mac or even the Mac 2 FX, which was like like 13 grand in today’s money or something like
⏹️ ▶️ John that. But maybe it’s like, you know, what is the basic put another
⏹️ ▶️ John way? What is the margin that Apple would feel too embarrassed to put on its product? 200% markup 500 1000?
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think they’re going to go it, they’re going to go much
⏹️ ▶️ John over $2,000 if really they could sell the watch at a thousand or 1500 and have like,
⏹️ ▶️ John you know, uh, the best margins of any product they ever sold for sure, but not the kind of margins like
⏹️ ▶️ John on a 50 grand Rolex. Like I just don’t see that.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m, I mean, I think the, the addition addition, like the, the gold that could,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco that could be crazy, but okay. So we already know the starting point, three 50, even if
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we assume that’s for only the small one and with no band included. I’m guessing
⏹️ ▶️ Marco most people who own this thing probably aren’t going over a total of five or six hundred
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I’m guessing the most of the ones that actually get sold are gonna be in like that $500 total range
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of watch plus band most people are probably not gonna have multiple bands or multiple watches
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and this is the kind of thing I would expect that you don’t replace as often
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you replace a phone or even an iPad.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think the average solid price might be similar to the phone price, not the phone that people pay price, but
⏹️ ▶️ John like the like the real price. What is the iPhone 5S is like 600, $700 to Apple when they when they sell one of those?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s all 650.
⏹️ ▶️ John that seems about right for which is crazy to think about. It’s like, oh, the watch is going to be cheaper. Like
⏹️ ▶️ John it seems like another product that revenue wise, if they sold as many of them as they sell phones
⏹️ ▶️ John could have a similar impact because that’s for the first generation, kind of like how the first iPhones had that
⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous price and then came down or whatever. But I think you could be right about that.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So one thing I’m curious about is, will there be different capacities? What do you mean capacities?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, let’s talk about like the software side of this because I think that’s that’s very interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, because was it Kevin Lynch, you did the demo? Is that did I get the name right?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. Adobe guy who would say what What is that guy from Adobe working on? Now you know.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey He had said, and I tried to get a verbatim quote, but it may not be perfect,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey the music that’s stored right here on your Apple Watch when he was talking about playing music,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey which implies to me that there is some amount of traditional style,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, flash capacity. And then that makes me wonder, will there be like the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and like the iPad, different tiers of capacities?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, like, so the iPhone doesn’t tell you much ram it’s in the iWatch doesn’t tell you how much flash the
⏹️ ▶️ John flash storage is adequate what car maker is that that’s rolls
⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t there you go even i knew that one finally a reference all three of us knew
⏹️ ▶️ John it and no one in the audience got it that’s fine not at all
⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course no i i think you know we can we can we’re gonna learn more about this over the coming months
⏹️ ▶️ Marco presumably they’re gonna launch an sdk i would i would guess probably january based on what they’ve said
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way they describe how the software works some of the little wording they’ve used here and there in the keynote that i’ve heard back
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everything else. I think the most likely arrangement here is that
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the apps mostly run on the phone and the apps that run on the watch are extensions of
⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone apps. They’re like the I was eight extensions.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that’s just a packaging detail. Like the bottom line is you’re transferring, transferring binaries to the watch by way
⏹️ ▶️ John of the phone, by way of the app store in a bundle. They get on there, they have to be stored somewhere,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? And if you want to, like, add or delete apps, you probably do that from the phone. You know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s probably just like every other iOS 8 extension.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Quick aside, what did you think of the quote-unquote springboard? I loved it.
⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it was great.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey It seems to me to be not too easy to use insofar as all those tap
⏹️ ▶️ Casey targets looked really small.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, that’s why you got the little zoomie thing. Digital crown.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Again, I highly recommend doing the paper printout because when you see this,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even on the biggest, even on the big screen one, quote big, it is such a small area.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s going to be challenging. And I think it’s the kind of thing where we’re not going to know how easy or
⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard it is until we actually try to use one because it’s going to be very hard to predict.
⏹️ ▶️ John But that’s why they do the magnifying effect, like the whole I like. First of all, I just I like the aesthetic. Right. I like to ask that is
⏹️ ▶️ John the little circles nestled onto each other, but they’re nestled into each other. And the little ones that are in the outer gaps
⏹️ ▶️ John magnify when they come towards the middle. So it’s kind of like they’re trying to give you big touch targets near the center of the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John And then you just sort of slide around until what you want to tap is near the center and then there’s the maximum size.
⏹️ ▶️ John And yeah, it does look small, but you can use them. But like I think most that well, they’re also trying to give you shortcuts to
⏹️ ▶️ John things you commonly do. Side button gives you the people’s faces replying or, you know, if something comes in a notification,
⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve got the dial to pick what you want to do with it. Any sort of dialogue, if you want to call them, that is three giant buttons
⏹️ ▶️ John to take up a third of the screen each. So I don’t think people are going to spend a lot of time trying to hunt and peck little
⏹️ ▶️ John dots on that home screen.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think obviously these are these are extensions. They I’m sure they’ve run natively on the watch
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like it’s probably like you know binary compiled for the watch But it’s using the extension mechanism to communicate
⏹️ ▶️ Marco back with the phone
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it’s not the extension mechanism is just a matter of packaging communicating back to the phone That’s the that’s the question
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the shared data containers and everything there’s there’s some weirdness going on there
⏹️ ▶️ John well they can’t have a shared data container when they’re running on a different device right so right so how do they communicate? All right, so the quick yeah
⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the question of is I don’t think you can do a handoff style open a stream between the things I think I think I think
⏹️ ▶️ John the phone has to be an island in the same way that the entire iPhone used to be an island, where it’s like, you don’t get to do anything in
⏹️ ▶️ John the background. If you want to do anything with push notifications, there’s one push notification
⏹️ ▶️ John service, and we will dole out your things to you. And that’s not even, you know, like, it’s going to be incredible isolation. Like,
⏹️ ▶️ John the number of interactions with the phone, what initiates them, and how long they last, I expect to be severely
⏹️ ▶️ John constrained. So, because battery life is going to be brutal. So they cannot have like, oh, it’s just like handoff.
⏹️ ▶️ John You can just open up a screen and have between these two things and just talk, you’ll destroy the
⏹️ ▶️ John watch’s battery that way. So I expect some kind of regimented, structured way that
⏹️ ▶️ John this is the straw through which you have to sip. This is how many times you get to sip to communicate with the phone. And then it
⏹️ ▶️ John will gradually open up, just like background tasks and everything have on main device.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Something I was wondering about as well is, I could swear during the presentation there was a lot of talk of communicating
⏹️ ▶️ Casey via your phone’s Wi-Fi. And maybe that was, maybe I’m misconstruing
⏹️ ▶️ Casey that, but I wonder if the, I don’t remember the term, but the thing on a Mac
⏹️ ▶️ Casey or on a phone where you have two simultaneous connections going one to the quote
⏹️ ▶️ Casey unquote house wifi and one for like airdrop, perhaps the watch will
⏹️ ▶️ Casey use that for, you know, doing a burst data transfer for bigger things.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like for example, if it’s uploading a binary or something like that, I mean, I would presume it uses Bluetooth low energy
⏹️ ▶️ Casey as much as possible, but perhaps does this like airplay-esque sort of dual
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wi-Fi thing to transfer anything big.
⏹️ ▶️ John Oh yeah, because I fully expect that the watch will only be communicating with your phone.
⏹️ ▶️ John It will not be communicating with your house’s Wi-Fi, even though the watch may be Wi-Fi capable
⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of like radio frequencies and stuff, that it would totally do airdrop style ad hoc to your phone. And only
⏹️ ▶️ John then when it needs that bandwidth and it can’t get by with Bluetooth.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco San the geek just said Wi-Fi is confirmed. I’d love to, is there, do we have a source on that? Oh, I guess Apple PR
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is saying it has Wi-Fi? Yeah, I would, I
⏹️ ▶️ John would accept. Back to the last show where we talked about the little SD card or the iFi
⏹️ ▶️ John that goes into your camera and has, you know, and draws all its power from
⏹️ ▶️ John your SD card slot and yet has Wi-Fi and it talks to your computer and everything like that. Like, I think they can get away with
⏹️ ▶️ John it. Especially since I don’t think, like they’re not gonna give us a number for talk time on
⏹️ ▶️ John even though even though the watch has a microphone, they don’t expect you to be going on three hour phone
⏹️ ▶️ John calls. And just because it’s probably awkward to hold your wrist up to it. Like they expect you to fire off responses
⏹️ ▶️ John to text, send messages to people, do quick calls like that. Like I don’t think they expect it to
⏹️ ▶️ John be sustained streaming audio and certainly not video at this point. There’s not
⏹️ ▶️ John even a camera on the watch. Although you can go in the other direction. All
⏹️ ▶️ John of those things are not going to be good for battery. And so it seems like the whole idea with the watch is,
⏹️ ▶️ John uh, you know, sort of on the go, pick up things, looking at notifications, doing small things. And
⏹️ ▶️ John I think that’s necessary for battery life. And I guess we’ll see for convenience, like, does it
⏹️ ▶️ John feel weird to hold your wrist up? Can you actually sustain a long conversation by talking into your wrist
⏹️ ▶️ John or does that just never feel right? You know,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco also real time follow up. It does indeed confirmed have wifi only BG, which is interesting,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it does have wifi according to the Apple press release.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, you wouldn’t think it would need AC because it’s only got what the rumor for the storage is like 8 gig or something I saw on the go
⏹️ ▶️ John by in the chat room. But that’s the interesting so that s one thing which is what a great you know they we’ve got a bunch
⏹️ ▶️ John of stuff in here it’s all encased in the thing for water resistance we’re just going to call the whole thing s one we have no
⏹️ ▶️ John idea what’s in there but you would assume it first of all we all assume it’s an ARM chip even though they didn’t say
⏹️ ▶️ John right is it like an old Apple sort of like we took the CPU core from
⏹️ ▶️ John the A4 and did it at 20 nanometers. And the thing that impressed
⏹️ ▶️ John me most about little demos is that there’s obviously a powerful enough GPU in there to do those particle effects and to
⏹️ ▶️ John do them in a way that’s energy efficient. Because when you draw those little doodles, they wipe away with a particle effect. That’s all
⏹️ ▶️ John OpenGL stuff. Or not OpenGL, it’s probably Metal, right? Silly. But anyway, same thing. Those flourishes
⏹️ ▶️ John mean they feel like that is OK to do power-wise, which means that it
⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t just have a reasonable CPU in there, but it’s got a GPU that meets some minimum standard. Granted, the screen is super
⏹️ ▶️ John tiny. It doesn’t need to push a lot of pixels. But that makes me really wonder what is inside that S1.
⏹️ ▶️ John If it’s like a cut-down GPU from an iPhone 4 and a cut-down
⏹️ ▶️ John CPU made at a smaller process. This is an entirely new chip that has nothing to do with any Apple
⏹️ ▶️ John A whatever chip that has ever been made. I’m really curious about the architectural details of what they could shove
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s also worth thinking about like, you know, how does that like, you know, The flash guy
⏹️ ▶️ Marco mentioned about you can play music directly stored on it. How
⏹️ ▶️ Marco much does it work without an iPhone? So I’m guessing one of the reasons it has wifi is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco because that way it can work with handoff properly within your house. Like if it
⏹️ ▶️ Marco only has Bluetooth, that means if your phone is more than 15, 20 feet away
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in most places, it loses the connection. So if your phone is like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco in your bag and you’re up walking around your house somewhere or your office somewhere and your phone’s back at your desk, you know, that’s gonna
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, but you can hand off to your Mac, I would imagine. Right. You come up to your Mac with the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And handoff works as a combination of Bluetooth and WiFi. So that’s why I’m guessing that’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco why handoff, or that’s why WiFi’s there. So, and also, like,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco what do you think, like, I’m guessing that if you are
⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally gone from your iPhone, let’s say you go out on a jog around your neighborhood, you leave your iPhone at home, you leave the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco watch on, right? That’s obviously a situation they’re considering because they’re focusing so much on fitness
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. And I’m sure they know that not everybody brings their iPhone on a jog.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m guessing it can work in a limited mode, totally disconnected.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it probably works like an iPod, where it can probably play a limited amount of music, whatever it has
⏹️ ▶️ Marco stored on it. That’s why it can store music on it, is for exercise reasons. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco as you’re out, it basically becomes an iPod Nano with a watch. And then and although there’s no headphone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco port so you’re only doing bluetooth headphones, which is gonna kill the battery But that’s another story
⏹️ ▶️ Marco But like that’s that’s what I’m guessing. I’m guessing third-party apps probably can’t do anything in that mode
⏹️ ▶️ John I bet they could do something I mean what what can they what would they even want to do because if you don’t have any communications
⏹️ ▶️ John of the outside world Maybe you could provide visualizations of information being picked up by
⏹️ ▶️ John the M8 or whatever the little you know So something like something fitness related to make a better like lap
⏹️ ▶️ John counter like all the type of things that you might want to watch to do when you’re on a run or something or walking or even just like a compass
⏹️ ▶️ John app can’t do GPS because it doesn’t have I don’t think you can do it doesn’t that we know of
⏹️ ▶️ John as GPS. I assume it doesn’t just for power
⏹️ ▶️ Marco reasons. They said they said in the keynote. It says something like that it can use
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the GPS from your iPhone, which I’m pretty sure is pretty clearly saying it does not have its own GPS.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we’re going to have to wait many more years before they can jam more crap into here. I assume you know if
⏹️ ▶️ John we go five years in the future this thing might actually have GPS I might actually have a camera it might be thinner
⏹️ ▶️ John like we just got to wait for technology to catch up for them to Stick more of the stuff in there, but for now. This is definitely
⏹️ ▶️ John You know and they snuck it in early in the keynote and then emphasized it more later This needs
⏹️ ▶️ John to go with your iPhone which I think is fine for this product in the beginning because who’s gonna buy a Really
⏹️ ▶️ John expensive fancy smartwatch. They probably already have an iPhone anyway
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and that’s the thing like if this does take off as a fashion item That’s
⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna drive iPhone sales free because there’s gonna be some people out there who have an Android phone who see this and want
⏹️ ▶️ John this Yeah, and until and unless there can be an Android equivalent to this like I
⏹️ ▶️ John know there’s tons of Android smartwatches or whatever But I don’t think any of them have been executed Fashion-wise
⏹️ ▶️ John to the caliber that this thing appears to be so if someone wants it as a fashion accessory They don’t actually
⏹️ ▶️ John have a good Android based alternative that I think lives up to the fashion standards
⏹️ ▶️ John set by this phone in terms of fit and finish and probably cachet because of the the popularity of it and everything
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think also it would I Think they would probably be unlikely to see something like this
⏹️ ▶️ Marco from the Android camp anytime soon
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I’m sure we’ll have some sort of awful knockoff really quickly.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, no, I’m saying I’m like it’s it’s it’s unlikely that we’re gonna see see anyone else besides Apple make
⏹️ ▶️ Marco one that is this desirable and cool in the fashion sense. Like, most
⏹️ ▶️ Marco people are not going to be like, oh, I can’t wait to get my, you know, to wrap one of the new Motorola whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco is around my wrist.
⏹️ ▶️ John Well, Samsung will make one that looks exactly identical. So there’s that going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco for. Well, one thing also, like we, if you’ve, if you’ve been reading some of the tweets from from people who know more about
⏹️ ▶️ Marco manufacturing than we do, some of the really basic traits of this are just really hard
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to manufacture. Apple can do it because they are so advanced in that field. They have such advanced manufacturing techniques
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so much power and margin to use them. Whereas not everybody has that. And like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody was saying, even just the design of the crown
⏹️ ▶️ Marco requires some insane lathe to make the little things and make everything right. And
⏹️ ▶️ Marco even the design of the latches that latch onto the band and how even those are hard
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to make in that specific shape and with that kind of precision and everything.
⏹️ ▶️ John Regular people don’t make those distinctions, though. Like the Samsung phones are not made to the
⏹️ ▶️ John same fit and finish that Apple phones are, but most people don’t notice. But high end watch nerds certainly will. But
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I really don’t know how this watch will be reacted to by high end watch nerd. Yes, I haven’t read that article that’s been going around
⏹️ ▶️ John today about the high end watch nerd talking about the Apple watch. Just haven’t gotten around to it. We’ll put it. We’ll put it in the show notes
⏹️ ▶️ John so you guys can read it maybe before I do.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So we should probably try to wrap this sometime before Friday.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey One of the things I wanted to quickly touch on is the kind of interactive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey and what are they, intimate was the word they used, which I don’t know about that, but the interactive
⏹️ ▶️ Casey bits that you can do with the watch. So when you can like draw little doodles and you can do the heartbeat
⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing, which I think that’s more creepy than not, but I’m not really
⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure. But what I just noticed, which I don’t recall them saying
⏹️ ▶️ Casey during the keynote is that this is a full on Dick Tracy watch because it has a walkie talkie
⏹️ ▶️ Casey on it. And I’m reading from Apple’s website for a fun alternative to a phone call, use the built
⏹️ ▶️ Casey in speaker and microphone to trade spur of the moment sound bites with friends.
⏹️ ▶️ John I wonder if it really is a walkie talkie like again, getting back to Marco saying no phone take all the phones out to people with iWatches
⏹️ ▶️ John can they walkie talkie with with Apple Watches sorry can they walkie talkie to each other?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t imagine that being the case.
⏹️ ▶️ John they could do ad hoc Wi-Fi between the watches
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or something. Would it work
⏹️ ▶️ John as well as AirDrop? Yeah. AirDrop’s not that bad these days. Anyway,
⏹️ ▶️ John that was the throwing stuff against the wall part of the keynote. They’re like, oh, and it does this and it does that.
⏹️ ▶️ John And who knows, maybe these things will be useful. We’ll have to just try it to see.
⏹️ ▶️ John Is their usefulness hampered by the fact that they have to be tied to the phone? And if I had the phone, would I just use it to text the person?
⏹️ ▶️ John Because you’re not doing text input on the watch and
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Here’s a really basic question. This thing is supposedly slightly water resistant, right?
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, I would assume like a mass market watch has to be somewhat water resistant so you can like, you know, if you’re like washing the dishes and it gets
⏹️ ▶️ John It’s splash resistant but it cannot immerse it. The charging thing on the back and the general sealed
⏹️ ▶️ John nature of this thing looks like it is right where you would expect a
⏹️ ▶️ John fancy watch to be in that it’s like, okay, it’s not a waterproof watch but we’ll do
⏹️ ▶️ John our best to keep water out of the thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey To go back to the experience, the digital crown seemed like a clever idea to
⏹️ ▶️ Casey solve this problem, which we talked about a little bit earlier. What didn’t make sense to me, having never
⏹️ ▶️ Casey touched one, was why is the home button pressing the crown? It seemed to me to be
⏹️ ▶️ Casey much more logical that pressing the crown is like, okay, and pressing that
⏹️ ▶️ Casey big, huge button below the crown is the home button.
⏹️ ▶️ John This is like mutant rotation lock all over again. I’m sure the
⏹️ ▶️ John will change its nine. Like the thing that baffles me as much about the digital crown is like that would have been the logical
⏹️ ▶️ John place to try to cram touch ID. But I guess it’s too small. Like there’s no touch ID on this thing.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but it’s never leaving your person ever in theory.
⏹️ ▶️ John I know. But like if you’re going to pay with it, like when you pay with the phone, you have to touch ID authenticate. But when you pay with the watch,
⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t. I don’t.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes. Somebody was saying how like it’ll like it’ll use the skin sensor on the bottom to like see if it’s still attached
⏹️ ▶️ Marco to you or whatever. But that sounds like that’s that might change. We’ll see.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that could be. We don’t know how that authentication works. And yeah, it’s kind of like they could take it off
⏹️ ▶️ John your wrist if they could replace the little uh I was gonna do a indiana jones reference, but anyway
⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve seen those movies. Yeah, I think you know, he replaces the idol with the sandbag like
⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey oh, yeah You
⏹️ ▶️ John got to take the wrist the watch off the wrist, but you have to make it think it’s still up against skin or whatever
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I I thought I thought it was interesting too like casey I think your point is very valid about how I think clicking the
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the the wheel should be okay day. And I think you know they they only
⏹️ ▶️ Marco have two buttons on this on this watch. So you know obviously these this is at an extreme premium similar to the iPhone
⏹️ ▶️ Marco like there’s only two buttons. I think it’s interesting that the second button rather
⏹️ ▶️ Marco than being home the second button is like bring up your list of friends.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like that’s like it shows you where their focus is their focus is on making this a very
⏹️ ▶️ Marco social device as opposed to show me more notifications or you know
⏹️ ▶️ Marco go launch threes. Like this is very much like this is meant to be
⏹️ ▶️ Marco a very social device. And honestly one part of that I thought was a little bit weird is like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m probably only going to have my wife on that list first of all. Like I don’t think I want to see anyone
⏹️ ▶️ John You leave a solitary life but
⏹️ ▶️ John people who are going amongst like I think of a teenager who’s got all their friends are going to be on there
⏹️ ▶️ John right. If you have a teenager, rich Teenagers fine.
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, you know
⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco are gonna hate them for having an
⏹️ ▶️ John iWatch and it’s interesting It’s interesting with a social aspect of it because I agree that’s something you want to use it
⏹️ ▶️ John for but there’s no text input And so that’s why they have like the animated emoji and the little drawings
⏹️ ▶️ John They want you to use this thing to sort of quickly communicate with people with the tapping and all that other stuff They want you to
⏹️ ▶️ John use it for that, but they know how much people love texting. It’s like well, you can’t text in this We’re not gonna throw up a little keyboard. You
⏹️ ▶️ John can you can probably do you can do dictation you can talk to Siri But what can you do
⏹️ ▶️ John without doing any of that stuff? Well, you can draw little pictures, which I think is clever. You can do the little tapping, the little animated
⏹️ ▶️ John emoji is like fun. Like they’re trying to say, we want you to communicate
⏹️ ▶️ John in ways other than typing to each other. And thus far, the world has said, we want to text each other like crazy. So this will
⏹️ ▶️ John be an interesting challenge to see if they can convince the world to use these alternate
⏹️ ▶️ John means of communication for more than just, hey, I just got an iWatch, let’s play with all these novelty things and
⏹️ ▶️ John then get bored of it.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, the first thing I thought of when I saw the like tap feature, um, so you can just like
⏹️ ▶️ Casey tap on it and you know, you can do it many times in a row or just once immediately. I thought
⏹️ ▶️ Casey of journey and you know, inventing your own little language. I thought
⏹️ ▶️ John you were going to say the yo app. I tweeted the, the apple watch built in because that’s basically like, it is like you want
⏹️ ▶️ John to, what is tapping do? Like you just want to get someone’s attention, like, Hey, Hey.
⏹️ ▶️ John And you a little tap on their wrist. Right. And the journey thing is like communicating with glyphs. lot of people said that, but the the
⏹️ ▶️ John key of the glyphs and journey is that you don’t get to pick what yours is. Whereas with the little
⏹️ ▶️ John the little drawing pictures and making little, you know, language within each other as many many people, including
⏹️ ▶️ John me, tweeted this is an opportunity for them to let a million rudimentary drawings of penises
⏹️ ▶️ John bloom because that’s all people are gonna draw on this thing is send each other a little tiny terrible
⏹️ ▶️ John phalluses that they drew with their finger on their phone. Naturally. On their watch.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wonder maybe we can bring back graffiti.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, that’s interesting.
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they didn’t bring that up. But it’s got like, I, they just totally did not want you to do text input on this thing.
⏹️ ▶️ John Unless you’re talking to Siri, like that’s it. They do not want you to draw letters. They don’t want you to type letters. Like, how
⏹️ ▶️ John would you feel about manipulating a little 3d happy face and sending that to somebody? Does that make you feel good?
⏹️ ▶️ John How about a hand that you can pose in different positions? No, it won’t make a middle finger. Maybe a third party app will do that for you.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Which by the way, I did see somebody with a square or rectangular shaped Android
⏹️ ▶️ Casey watch just a few weeks ago trying to type out like a text message on it and it looked absolutely ridiculous. I don’t
⏹️ ▶️ Casey know. It’s not good.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. Anything else on the watch? Well, there’s a lot. I mean, I think we should save for next week questions
⏹️ ▶️ Marco such as why, which is a good question,
⏹️ ▶️ John I think. I agree. It has been foretold. That’s why. Yeah.
⏹️ ▶️ John So it is written, so let it be. I mangled that quote. Does anyone know that quote? You two don’t know it. Forget
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You knew that before you even asked. All right. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week for…
⏹️ ▶️ Marco They probably didn’t even listen to the whole thing. Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week. Cover. Warby
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Parker and Squarespace. And we will see you next week.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over. They didn’t even mean to begin. Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental. Oh it was accidental.
⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research. John didn’t do any research, Margo and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause
⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, it was accidental
⏹️ ▶️ Casey And you can find the show notes at atp.fm
⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter, you can
⏹️ ▶️ John follow them At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
⏹️ ▶️ Casey So that’s Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M The
⏹️ ▶️ Casey anti-Marco-Armin S-I-R-A-C
⏹️ ▶️ Marco USA Syracuse It’s accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John They didn’t mean to Accidental
⏹️ ▶️ John Tech Podcasts So Long
⏹️ ▶️ John I think people who listen to this will be disappointed that you sure didn’t try to make me feel bad about not going But I think you
⏹️ ▶️ John both correctly understood that nothing that happened during this event changes any of the things
⏹️ ▶️ John that went into me not going
⏹️ ▶️ Marco Although I will say when when that stream kept cutting out TV We’re like
⏹️ ▶️ Marco we were like I bet Syracuse was kicking him kicking himself now
⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, we didn’t have to say anything because the internet was attacking you and it was
⏹️ ▶️ John I know but like but see first of all, like I said, I didn’t I always had one stream that was working Sometimes
⏹️ ▶️ John it was an SD which was kind of disappointing, but it totally evened out by the time the watch got there So the streaming wasn’t fine, but
⏹️ ▶️ John none of that makes up. And I can tell you that. What did I feel after the event was over? Relief
⏹️ ▶️ John that I didn’t now have to fly home.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco You could have had like the hands on area. You could have told us more about the
⏹️ ▶️ John watch. Now, like I totally I am totally not disappointed. I’m not disappointed. They didn’t get to see you, too.
⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t really care. Like, it’s just everything. I mean, I’m disappointed. I’m disappointed they didn’t get to see my
⏹️ ▶️ John my friends who went to the thing. But, you know, I totally do not regret my decision. I made the right one.
⏹️ ▶️ John Like there’s pretty much almost nothing they could have done. Here’s what they could have done. If they gave everyone in the audience
⏹️ ▶️ John a Mac Pro, I would have regretted not going. HFS plus dead. No, I would not have regretted not being there for that. It’s like
⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like unless there’s something I could have gotten by being there, whether, you know, it’s an experience
⏹️ ▶️ John or like actual thing or something like that. And looking at the iWatches, I guess
⏹️ ▶️ John like a fifth time I’ve said it. I sorry, guys, looking at the Apple watches and everything. I’ll see him eventually. I’m
⏹️ ▶️ John not like it’s not like this is exactly what I thought the event was going to be. new iPhones and the watch and I guess
⏹️ ▶️ John the payment stuff. You know, it’s fine.
⏹️ ▶️ Marco The best thing was when when you two comes out because don’t you like you two a lot?
⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but not like I mean, you’re gonna say only their earlier stuff like, yeah, I
⏹️ ▶️ John used I used to follow them a lot more than I do. Now they’re kind of an
⏹️ ▶️ John aging band. The musical style they’ve been doing lately is not particularly to my tastes.
⏹️ ▶️ John In there, in the grand scheme of things. I was glad I got the album for free. I mean, I probably would have bought that album
⏹️ ▶️ John anyway. I still buy the albums when they come out but
⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know I think you were better off like anybody who likes you too. When they
⏹️ ▶️ Marco first started playing, I was like, Oh man, Syracuse is gonna hate that he missed this. Then after they played
⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they were still on stage and Tim Cook comes back out and does that horribly awkward skit with them. Oh,
⏹️ ▶️ Marco so bad. I think anybody who likes either YouTube or Tim Cook
⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Apple or anything good in the world is better off not having seen that.
⏹️ ▶️ John I think Bono did pretty well considering this is not his job. Like he doesn’t know how to come up and like he,
⏹️ ▶️ John because they have to say, we’re going to do this thing. And like, you know, Tim Cook was more embarrassing because like he
⏹️ ▶️ John seemed a little silly and starstruck and red faced and flustered. And it’s like,
⏹️ ▶️ Casey well, in the, the finger touch was just the icing on the awkward
⏹️ ▶️ Casey cake. Yeah. I, when, when
⏹️ ▶️ John I rewatched the thing, I did not watch that part again. Cause it’s not, it’s, it’s a little bit too painful. And everyone,
⏹️ ▶️ John everyone who was there said YouTube was way too loud so we actually got a better experience of that not
⏹️ ▶️ John being there either I didn’t like that song I played though
⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I think I’m gonna treat it like most Apple events where they have a closing band where where the music is
⏹️ ▶️ Marco the end of the event that’s it like like that’s like usually when when the musical guest starts
⏹️ ▶️ Marco playing all the live blogs stop and they say all right that’s it we’ll see you later nothing’s gonna happen after
⏹️ ▶️ John you too well even that I was gonna say if you two was in like the press area afterwards mingling and I could have
⏹️ ▶️ John hung out with them but really use that’s going to happen either. So it’s too many. What
⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you if you could if you saw, you know, the edge,
⏹️ ▶️ John you said that like you said it like butthead
⏹️ ▶️ Marco What would you what would you ask in a setting like that? Like, do you have a prepared question?
⏹️ ▶️ John You can’t like in a set in the setting like that. You can’t like people just like, you know, they have to come over for a nice