Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

73: Notifications Duck

Product choices in social circles, 4K and plasma, sapphire displays, and a post-show in memory of Firefox.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ John Which one did you listen to this stupid one with mike daisy from way back when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no the one with the long island? Jeep dealer or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, that was a pretty good episode You still you still do your fake like this is

⏹️ ▶️ John how we think people on long island sound after hearing people on long island Talk for an entire show

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John and you’re still gonna do that. It didn’t it didn’t take hearing all the actual people from long island talk You’re just gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John go back to that because you think that is somehow representative of something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I think it makes you mad and I think that’s funny.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So Richmond’s in the south

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right yeah, yeah, well once upon a time. It was the capital of Confederacy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Too bad it’s so small doesn’t even have an Apple Store.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know Richmond does you’re thinking of Charlottesville, which is an hour west You’re just trying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to get me angry so you can go to bed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really want to go to bed My throat’s all dry. I just took my last sip of water. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John Think of the editing job you have you’re gonna have to listen back to all this crap again to try to extract some value

⏹️ ▶️ John from It so it’s you’re you have double punishment

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Right, so we have some follow-up. All right, take it out of the parking lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so the first follow-up is from me, and it’s from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Al. I don’t know if that’s Al or A-L or what. I’m going to say Alabama.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, I think that’s right. I think this person’s name is Alabama. So anyway, he or she

⏹️ ▶️ Casey made a point with regard to the people switching from

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Android to iOS, which you had said kind of off the cuff an episode or two ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so reading from his or her feedback, in my immediate circle of friends and colleagues,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 15 people have switched from iOS to Android. None have switched from Android to iOS.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The main reason, and this is what I thought was interesting, the main reason, after an iOS update, their one plus

⏹️ ▶️ Casey year old iPhone, officially supported by Apple, slowed down and made them mad. Now on Android, 95%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of them don’t get updates, but everything keeps working as, scare quotes, fast,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey scare quote, as it did when they got the phone. And I thought that was very interesting because I’ve not heard this personally,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I could see that being, I don’t know if I should use the word legitimate, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perhaps justifiable reason for not upgrading, or not upgrading your iPhone or alternatively going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Android. And I was just curious if you two had any thoughts on that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it’s kind of a weak argument. I mean, first of all, it’s totally anecdotal. Now, my statement was,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My statement, I forget exactly my words, but it was saying that not a lot of people ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco move from iOS to Android, but people do move from Android to iOS. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t back that up with anything. And I don’t really have a lot of strong support for that, except that, just from what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve seen online, I’ve seen occasional studies and surveys and reports here and there that some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Android people move to iOS after having an Android phone. And I’ve never seen a report that says otherwise.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco says the opposite that some people move to and some statistically significant number of people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco move from iOS to Android after having an iPhone. Those numbers might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be out there, but I’ve only ever seen the former. I’ve never seen the latter being reported in an actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco study or report of real numbers with real people. So we, you know, anybody can have anecdotes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying, oh, well, I switched or my friends all switched in the other direction. But I would love to know if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anybody has actual numbers backing that up in either direction or both directions or in either direction. I would love to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actual numbers for that, because neither of us really do really have anything to support this,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me or Al.

⏹️ ▶️ John I like this anecdote though, because it highlights a phenomenon

⏹️ ▶️ John that I’ve seen a lot in that, you know, when you have a study of a large group of people, you wanna see,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, larger trends or whatever, but that’s just like, those big numbers

⏹️ ▶️ John are good for sort of, you know, seeing where the industry or the population is going, but in any small pocket

⏹️ ▶️ John of people, this phenomenon that this person is describing is something that I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John seen a lot of, and that like, how do people decide

⏹️ ▶️ John to, you know, change platforms, switch from a Mac to a PC, like

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever sort of technology purchasing decision and platform related

⏹️ ▶️ John is, how do they change? Do they change on an individual basis? Most of the time what I see is what this person described

⏹️ ▶️ John is that social groups move kind of as a herd in that it will

⏹️ ▶️ John become socially accepted within some small or large group of people, whether it’s just five friends

⏹️ ▶️ John or an entire family or an entire community. Or a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey framily.

⏹️ ▶️ John What? Yeah, and it will become like common wisdom. Everybody knows that

⏹️ ▶️ John x is true of y. And it starts becoming socially unacceptable to be

⏹️ ▶️ John still be using X when everybody knows X has this problem Y and you should all change to Z whatever it may

⏹️ ▶️ John be whether it’s about cars, dishwashers, car seats,

⏹️ ▶️ John daycares, I’m thinking of parenting things but like you know and also with phones and I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John seen this as well in small groups of people everyone just knows like oh you

⏹️ ▶️ John know like the original was like with the iPhone oh your phone is crappy you should get an iPhone because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s better at the web or whatever and then everyone or it’s the cool thing or they have apps and apps are cool

⏹️ ▶️ John and on the other side you know and this group like oh you should get off Apple phones because Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t support their old products and they they intentionally slow things down everybody knows that you should try Android

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever it doesn’t really matter whether the thing they’re talking about is true or not or whether it’s true for a brief

⏹️ ▶️ John period of time or was true in the past is no longer true or was never true it doesn’t really

⏹️ ▶️ John matter. All that matters is that the social proof of a group of friends

⏹️ ▶️ John or family or whatever can move these little pockets of people. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the pocket phenomenon has almost nothing to do with the larger trend, because there could be pockets going in, especially if they’re basing

⏹️ ▶️ John their movement on things that aren’t true anyway. These pockets could be just Brownian motion, just like random

⏹️ ▶️ John movement of these little pockets. But I think It’s interesting that it’s not a uniform motion,

⏹️ ▶️ John and the decisions aren’t made on an individual basis. It’s sort of social

⏹️ ▶️ John proof and hearsay and half-truths and stuff like that that cause

⏹️ ▶️ John these little pockets to move one direction or the other. And that, I think, is fascinating, no matter which direction they’re moving.

⏹️ ▶️ John And fascinating and a little bit depressing, but I’ve long since learned that there’s no use

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to dissuade people of whatever notion that they’ve decided about

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever it is they’re talking about, whether it’s vacuum cleaners or cars, or certainly parenting, and also

⏹️ ▶️ John things like phones. And they tend to go in cycles, so whenever I hear someone say something like, um,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m always going to get Android phones because iOS phones don’t have Flash and I need Flash.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just don’t, it’s difficult to discuss that topic in a constructive way with them

⏹️ ▶️ John about the utility of Flash on the web, and how many Android phones have

⏹️ ▶️ John Flash or how useful it is in the mobile web or whatever, once they’ve decided that, they’re not going to change their mind

⏹️ ▶️ John until the new thing is, you know, Android phones are unreliable, I’m going to get Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John because my last two Android phones broke, or something equally unfounded or random or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think Al’s specific instance here, he’s saying that his friends and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he all switched because they were mad because their one-year-old iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got a software update from Apple that made it slower. And this is actually an interesting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco conundrum. Like, you know, what should Apple do here? Now, I’ve never heard anybody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco say that about an Android phone that that I got a software update. Period.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But also, but also that that a software update slowed it down. And maybe that’s because they so rarely get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco updates. I don’t know. But whatever the reason, I’ve never heard people say that. I think a lot of this has to do with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this like cultural narrative that people, especially Apple skeptics and anti-Apple people,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have had about Apple for a while, which is their products are overpriced. Never mind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that the iPhone is often sold at retail at the same price as similar Android phones, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can make these arguments all day about, oh, we’ll configure a PC with similar hardware as a MacBook Pro, and it’s a similar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco price. You can make those arguments all day. It doesn’t matter, as John, you just said. It’s hard to ever convince these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people otherwise once they have these long-running beliefs but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the commonly held and I’ve heard people say the whole time the commonly held thing here is Apple’s update

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made my old phone slower to force me to buy a new one because they want more money now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again I’ve never I’ve never heard anybody say Samsung updated my phone to make me buy a new one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and may you know intentionally made it slower so I’d buy a new Samsung phone I’ve never heard a single person say that again

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is anecdotal who knows if people do but that you know the motive is ascribed to Apple that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if a new version of the software is slower, or if I just perceive it to be slower, even if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not, or if it is slower but for a reason that’s not the fault of the operating system. Maybe I’m like running more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps and stuff and some app is slowing stuff down or killing the battery, you know, whatever the reason. They ascribe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the blame to, oh, Apple is greedy because their products are expensive and they want more of my money. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what would happen if Apple did not give software updates to one-year-old phones?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’d have these exact same people making the exact same complaint. Apple is so greedy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they won’t let me have the new software. They made my phone obsolete. They will use the word obsolete even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though it does not mean what they think it means, but they will use the word anyway. Apple made my phone obsolete to force me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to buy a new one because they want more money and they’re so greedy. Like it would be the exact same argument if they did it the other direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so this is one of those things like I don’t think, I think this is just like a cultural

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rumor or meme or just norm that this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain pretty sizable group of people just thinks this about Apple and will always describe that motive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of their stuff is expensive, therefore, anything they do is to make me go spend more money on their stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And occasionally, that might be the reason they do something, but I think it’s pretty occasional. I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s more like a happy side effect of moving things forward and making new stuff every year and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moving the requirements for it every year. But what do you expect them to do with your 18 month old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone for? Like, what do you do? You expect them to either way if they support this old hardware

⏹️ ▶️ Marco forever, it will get slower over time as the OS gets more complicated and more advanced. If they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t support it forever, you’ll scream that they stop supporting it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it’s the social aspect of it that’s important, because what I think what happens in these little pockets that move around is that

⏹️ ▶️ John one or two people With stature in the social group who will get unreasonably angry

⏹️ ▶️ John about something And then the other people Will feel

⏹️ ▶️ John that they will be looked upon as foolish if they continue to have dealings with the company that’s been denounced by

⏹️ ▶️ John the person with large with a higher social standing and They’d be chided about it and said like

⏹️ ▶️ John oh you’re still doing that Apple stuff like it becomes socially unacceptable acceptable, even if

⏹️ ▶️ John that individual, if left to their own devices, doesn’t have a problem, their device didn’t get slower, or they upgraded

⏹️ ▶️ John and didn’t notice any problems or whatever, it becomes a problem socially speaking because

⏹️ ▶️ John of the one or two people are angry. And you see this in the opposite thing too. Marco, recently you posted a

⏹️ ▶️ John link on your website about what was it, the guy’s experience at Google I.O.

⏹️ ▶️ John versus WWDC. In our social circle, or at least in some social circles, there is a stigma about

⏹️ ▶️ John Android phones about how they’re crappy and there’s nothing good on them. if you were seen with an Android phone. Whether

⏹️ ▶️ John you like the Android phone or not, if you’re in a social group where that is looked down upon, you’ll get crap

⏹️ ▶️ John about having an Android phone. Now, I’ve never experienced that with the

⏹️ ▶️ John groups that I’ve traveled in. I don’t think people care that much, but I know it is definitely a thing because I’ve seen this opposite thing as

⏹️ ▶️ John well. And it has, if you’re in that social group, it doesn’t matter if you are perfectly happy with your Android

⏹️ ▶️ John phone. At a certain point, you begin to think, you begin to feel foolish for

⏹️ ▶️ John having an Android phone because all these other people that you respect say that you shouldn’t have one and they’re crappy, or

⏹️ ▶️ John you get teased about it or whatever. And so groups will move, you know, groups of teenagers,

⏹️ ▶️ John families, groups of coworkers. And again, these individual bubbles mean nothing about

⏹️ ▶️ John the larger trend. They’re just, you know, lumps in the real world data. But I think it’s fascinating

⏹️ ▶️ John how these little groups are moving. Sometimes I think the groups can spread quite widely. Obviously the

⏹️ ▶️ John macro phenomenon is if something happens happens to some kind of news story that lets

⏹️ ▶️ John you learn that like company X is evil because they sell children into slavery or whatever, that bubble will

⏹️ ▶️ John just grow and cover everybody and it’ll be like well I’m not going to you know forget it we’re not buying anything from them anymore the company

⏹️ ▶️ John goes out of business. Like the bubbles can end up growing and connect with each other and just cover the entire map

⏹️ ▶️ John but these type of bubbles in my experience tend to be focused on one or two people

⏹️ ▶️ John with high social standing who have a bad experience with whatever and that spreads to

⏹️ ▶️ John like one or two degrees of connections from the person. The only exception is cases, and this

⏹️ ▶️ John one always cracks me up, where there are no good alternatives. Whenever someone with high social standing has a bad experience

⏹️ ▶️ John with an airline, and they say they will never fly that airline again, it’s like, well, five down,

⏹️ ▶️ John six more to go, and you will be out of airlines, because they’re all terrible. It’s like, I am never dealing with Comcast

⏹️ ▶️ John again. It’s OK, well, so you have probably one, two, possibly zero other cable companies.

⏹️ ▶️ John Eventually, you will hate them all, and then what will you do? then you’ll have to pick the least bad one, which is what we’re all doing anyway. So that

⏹️ ▶️ John one, I think people have learned to ignore. Because it used to be like, oh, well, I’ll never fly Delta. Our family doesn’t fly Delta. Delta

⏹️ ▶️ John is terrible. Sorry, Delta. I’m just picking your name out of the hat. Is Delta still in business?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, and they are terrible. But it doesn’t really matter. They’re all terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. But at this point, everyone sort of knows, look, they’re all terrible. If someone

⏹️ ▶️ John in your family or work group or whatever is super mad at some airline, it is not

⏹️ ▶️ John reason for you to not fly that airline. If anyone gives you crap about flying an airline, because they’ll tell you about

⏹️ ▶️ John the horrible experience they had. You said, look, every airline has those stories. They’re all terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, but with the phone things, I mean, I still think this is going in cycles and with Apple stuff as well. Like I have relatives

⏹️ ▶️ John who were on Macs for years and then a bubble forums about like my Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John broke and I didn’t feel like I was getting the support I need or I felt like it was obsolete before it was supposed to be or it is

⏹️ ▶️ John unreliable or I no longer understand it. So they switched to PC or my, you know, I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t like Apple and I’ve switched from Mac to PC. So now I’m going to get an Android phone on general principles because

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m mad at Apple about the whatever thing like That that can happen anywhere, but like wait 10 years

⏹️ ▶️ John and it could be back around the other side again I’m never getting the Android phone again. These things are terrible. I don’t like them for whatever reason

⏹️ ▶️ John they decide I’m only getting you know Microsoft phones or Windows phones or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John and Very few of these decisions have anything to do with logic and they just end up being noise But this is the source of

⏹️ ▶️ John anecdotes So anytime you hear an anecdote just think of one of these bubbles and think of what is making this bubble move from

⏹️ ▶️ John one camp the other for any reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So you’re saying that you never got made fun of for your flip phone, say, in the lobby

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the Park 55 at WWDC? That doesn’t run Android.

⏹️ ▶️ John Flip phone is a whole, that’s a whole other category of thing and that’s like gentle teasing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I didn’t feel like I’m excluded from the group because I have one. It’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I can’t hang

⏹️ ▶️ John out with you guys. I don’t have an iPhone. Like, no one really cares.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I don’t think we made fun of you. I just took a picture and posted on Instagram him and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got 400 people to make fun of you.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a whole other category of things. Like you’re not even participating. You don’t even have a smartphone. You still have a dumb

⏹️ ▶️ John phone. It’s like I would if I showed up running a penny farthing bicycle or something. It’s like, whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you know. Well, it’s funny because it’s not, you know, I’m not going to laugh at anyone using a flip phone. I will laugh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at you using a flip phone because it’s funny that you of all people don’t have a smartphone.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s actually not funny. It’s been explained many, many times. But anyway, people who are excited

⏹️ ▶️ John about it can be excited about but like the point is it’s not like I felt as if I wasn’t welcome in the group whereas like that

⏹️ ▶️ John was the angle with the Google I.O. thing where you’re hanging out at WWDC and you pull out an Android phone you somehow

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like you can’t participate in the group anymore like you’re you you are

⏹️ ▶️ John you are not allowed in you’re not with the cool kids or whatever and that I mean I’ve I’ve never personally

⏹️ ▶️ John experienced that phenomenon maybe I don’t care enough about what phone I have maybe other people don’t care enough about what other of the phone, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I imagine it’s entirely real, depending on who you’re hanging out with.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’ve also never seen that, but I’ve also very rarely ever seen somebody take out an Android phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco period, at WWDC.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I think in the groups that we hang out in, if we were hanging out and someone brought an Android phone, I think our reaction

⏹️ ▶️ John would be curiosity. We would all want to know, show me something cool in that phone. Why are you using that phone?

⏹️ ▶️ John Not as a challenge, but show me the thing that that phone can do that the iPhone can’t do. Again, not as a challenge,

⏹️ ▶️ John but because we’re interested in, A, most of us don’t want to a lot about Android and be in the circles we travel.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if anyone we know pulls out something, we assume because they are someone we respect and

⏹️ ▶️ John are friends with or whatever and knows tech stuff, that there must be a reason they’re using it. And we would want to know that reason. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like curiosity would be the reaction.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like if somebody, what you know, should have to a party on an elephant, like, okay, well, we all drove here,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you took the elephant. That’s on you. I’ve I haven’t seen an elephant being ridden in a while, especially two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco parties like this. Please tell me why you were the elephant here. And can you show me, you know, can I have a ride maybe? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what’s going on? Can I see the trunk?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sorry, that joke was too bad to pass up. A tangible example of this is I went to dinner

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with Justin Williams and a couple other people when I was at WWDC and he’s rocking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or he was at the time rocking a 5C, which that’s exactly what happened. It led to a very brief

⏹️ ▶️ Casey discussion of a 5C. Why not a 5S? What the hell is wrong with you? Why aren’t you rocking a 5S?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What makes a 5C so much better?” And it was more about, you know, it was playful ribbing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but more about, geez, tell me why you prefer this, because you’re someone whose opinion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I trust and I respect, and you’ve taken what could be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey called a contrarian opinion or a contrarian position. Tell me why. Matt Stauffer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even, it doesn’t even need to have to be contrarian. It’s just unusual. Like, you’re the only person that I’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this entire conference so far have a 5c you know what you know out of curiosity why

⏹️ ▶️ John and the answer is because it’s super comfortable and smooth on the back and everything it’s just a better form factor than

⏹️ ▶️ John the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey uh so and actually i think that was pretty much his answer and it comes in colors that’s it yeah uh you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to tell us about something awesome and then we’ll continue with follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are sponsored this week by a new sponsor it’s harry’s go to harry’ and use

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s Gillette. That’s what I thought. All right. So it’s founded by two guys. One of them, Jeff,

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco and some shaving cream. So that’s it, four blades and shaving cream. And for this great privilege of being treated like a criminal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and wasting all of his time, he had to pay over $25 for just four blades and some shaving cream.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco I currently use the Gillette Fusion and I gotta say their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the quality of their shave matches the Gillette Fusion quality and I didn’t think it was I’ve never I’ve tried a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco other ones. I’ve never found anything else that matched it. They match it and the cream was nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too and the handles actually really it’s a nice weighty handle. It’s you know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think there’s there’s some kind of metal in the middle somewhere. It’s a nice weighty handle and

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco for Gillette Fusion Blades is like $3.50, $3.75, $4.00, so it’s like per blade once

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we have some follow up about the biomedical stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then we also have some follow up about iPhoto. Do you want to cover that real quick, actually?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I said last week that the way iPhoto did raw editing back for back in the day

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was that you’d have the first edit of a RAW photo would be kind of losslessly operating on the RAW and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then it would bake that into the JPEG and then a future edits would lose a little RAW badge in the corner and you would be working

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the JPEG only and if you want to go back and do like a real adjustment to the RAW you’d have to reprocess it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and reset everything. Apparently in newer versions of iPhoto that is no longer the case which is awesome so now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in new versions I’ve had multiple people tell me that I haven’t actually tested it yet but I’ve had multiple people tell me that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in current versions of iPhoto, you always get the raw editing if you’re working on a raw file.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It doesn’t do the thing where it bakes the edits in after the first one and then you’re working on a JPEG. So good on that. I got that wrong

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Got another quick one here about the alarms going off in

⏹️ ▶️ John hospitals and how things are always beeping because the devices don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John enough to know whether something is normal or abnormal, there’s malfunctions, stuff like that. And Adam Gaines wrote in

⏹️ ▶️ John to tell us that the proper name for this is alarm fatigue. And we’ll put a link in

⏹️ ▶️ John the show notes talking about, it’s an NPR story talking about alarm fatigue. But it makes sense this

⏹️ ▶️ John is already a term for this, because it’s definitely a thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a nice term, too. I like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John We get notification fatigue on mobile devices, I guess, or on those watches that are always buzzing

⏹️ ▶️ John on your wrists every time you get a notification. Although I don’t know how people deal with it with their phones. Sometimes I

⏹️ ▶️ John briefly use someone else’s phone, and the thing is always beeping and buzzing and things are going off. disable like

⏹️ ▶️ John every notification almost everything is disabled

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah my I I talked about this before but I keep them so low that like I can sleep with my phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on next to my bed with the volume on every night and I expect to hear nothing all night unless something is really important

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and happening and that’s I’ve done that for years and it’s been fine and you know I think people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are criticizing these Android wear watches for buzzing constantly and showing them all these notifications constantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but that’s not really the watches problem That’s your problem as the user for having all the notifications configured.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And, you know, maybe you could say that the platform should add some kind of granularity setting, like priorities for indications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I don’t know if they do or not. I’m assuming they don’t, or at least the watches don’t integrate with anything like that yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Um, but that’s not a great solution. That’s kind of a, that’s like a programmer hack solution. That’s not really a good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco solution. The good solution is to exercise a little bit more self control over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the notifications that you choose to receive. And if you don’t want to have your risk buzzing all the time, maybe it isn’t important enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to have notification for it. So that’s like, I don’t, that’s another thing. Like people are arguing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or they’re, they’re criticizing these watches for that. It’s like, that’s not really like, that’s your fault, not the watches fault.

⏹️ ▶️ John The thing that really blows me away for like, iOS users are most people don’t read Twitter the way I do and

⏹️ ▶️ John that they don’t read every single tweet in the feed, right, which is fine. That’s a different way to use Twitter. But then those

⏹️ ▶️ John same people who don’t read their entire feed have like notifications turned on for their ad mentions.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that combination just doesn’t make any sense to me. You’re not interested enough that you’re going to read every single

⏹️ ▶️ John tweet of all the people you follow, but you are interested enough when any random person at mentions

⏹️ ▶️ John you that your phone is going to buzz and like vibrate and bleep. Are you kidding? Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I have no notifications for Twitter. I have no notifications for email. The only thing that could make my iPod

⏹️ ▶️ John make any kind of noise I think is I message and I almost never use that unless I’m like at WWDC.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How does that not make sense? Because I don’t necessarily care about the crap that that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey everyone else is shouting into the world, but hey, if you’re talking to me, I want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John to know.

⏹️ ▶️ John So you don’t care. You list the people you decide to follow. You don’t care enough to read everything they say, but anybody

⏹️ ▶️ John in the entire world that mentions you and you need to know about it right now. Any jerk from anywhere

⏹️ ▶️ John has more control over your attention than the people you have chosen to follow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, to be to be clear, I’m just playing devil’s advocate, but yes, I mean, I don’t think that’s a that’s a surprising

⏹️ ▶️ Casey conclusion for any normal human to reach. Humans are selfish bastards, and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s what we’re programmed to be. So it’s all about us. It’s all about me, me, me. And it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey surprising to me that people would skip what everyone else is saying unless it pertains

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to me.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe if people get very, very few at mentions, it’s not a problem. But most of the people that I

⏹️ ▶️ John know do get a lot of at mentions, and I bet at least half of them are bad. So it’s like you’re running that Facebook

⏹️ ▶️ John experiment on yourself for you to making yourself feel bad by making your phone ring with a 50% chance that it’s going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John someone saying something that’s going to make you feel bad. But you need to, oh, now it’s time for my phone to vibrate. I got to pull that out.

⏹️ ▶️ John Let me see what random jerk 123 had to say about me. 50-50 shot. It’s going to make me feel bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s not a reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s not a reason. Right, which is exactly why I recently came to the conclusion that having notifications for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all that mentions is insane. And I am a completionist like you for the record. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I instead have notifications only for people that mention me that I also

⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow. So the assumption here is that if somebody that I follow is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mentioning me, the signal to noise ratio is quite a bit higher.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still think it’s not a reason to be notified right now about it. You can have a separate view

⏹️ ▶️ John of your Twitter feed that shows you ad mentions by people you follow. I can understand viewing your feed, filtering

⏹️ ▶️ John your feed that way to show you stuff, but It’s not a reason to, like, I don’t need to know right now that

⏹️ ▶️ John someone had mentioned me on Twitter, right? If I’m in the middle of reading Twitter, then fine. But like, just, again,

⏹️ ▶️ John I have a low tolerance for anything making my phone vibrate, unless it’s like a family member giving me

⏹️ ▶️ John information I need to have right now. Unless it’s basically the equivalent of a phone call, the modern day equivalent of a phone call,

⏹️ ▶️ John where it’s like real-time information that I need to know now. Whereas even if it’s someone I follow and they had mentioned me,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t need to know that now.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you’re much, you have much more self-control than I do. And I, and I, and I need to be more like you. Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I’m not saying that to patronize you. I, I, I feel like I want to know if somebody’s talking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to me because I feel like Twitter’s just a half step less important than a text message, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey goes back to my appearance on IRL talk. But, but I, I, I should turn off all at mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notifications, but I don’t know. I just, I want to know. I want to know if somebody’s talking about me.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’ll find out when you, when you have a chance to look at Twitter, then you will see what they had to say

⏹️ ▶️ John about you. You need to know this second. I mean, I would just again, it gets back to just I have so few notifications

⏹️ ▶️ John turned on at all period. Like there is very little that happens on my phone that I think requires

⏹️ ▶️ John me to service it immediately. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John servicing an interrupt, you know, not that kind of service. Interrupt service

⏹️ ▶️ Casey routine anyway. To be clear, I don’t have sounds on. So it shows up on my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey home screen, but I don’t have any sort of buzzing or anything like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m actually so. So Overcast has push notifications for the episodes. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way it works is I send a content available push, which is silent, which doesn’t alert the user. The app wakes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up, downloads new stuff. And if there’s something new that the user should be notified about, it shows a local notification.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I actually intentionally set no sound for it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so far in the beta, no one has said anything about that. And I’m wondering, like…

⏹️ ▶️ John I was going to mention that to you, but I didn’t want to report bugs in the podcast. But I don’t –

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco this may be a

⏹️ ▶️ John separate thing. I’ll be listening to a podcast, right? And then the sound will duck as in go

⏹️ ▶️ John lower volume briefly. And that is my cue to know that some notification has happened on my system.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I don’t know what notification it was because no banner goes down because I have no notification turned on. But I know that something has happened.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so frequently I will pause the audio, go back and see that that was a message or something. Is that because my

⏹️ ▶️ John settings are screwed up that it didn’t make any noise? The audio ducked so clearly Overcast knew that something was happening. no

⏹️ ▶️ John other noise came through my headphones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that one’s not. Thank God that’s not my bug. In fact, not only is that not my bug, but applications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t even get a notification when they’re being ducked. Like I can’t really do anything in response to that.

⏹️ ▶️ John So am I supposed to be here? Like in theory, am I supposed to be hearing something? Probably,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but fortunately, that’s not my bug.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right. Well, anyway, the ducking audio at first I thought there was like a podcast production problem.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like boy, you know, in our podcast or someone else’s like, oh, why the audio duck? But now I learned that something

⏹️ ▶️ John else going on my phone anyway. Notifications suck.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Tell me how you really feel. Don’t hold back.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do we want to do this biomedical stuff and follow

⏹️ ▶️ John up? I’ll read it. It’s brief. This is Ben Griffel who wrote it before and he’s correcting

⏹️ ▶️ John himself. So I think that in that spirit.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann He should have a podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Jonathan Mann Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann he could do follow

⏹️ ▶️ John up. I’m just going to read it because it’s fairly concise. So there are a few watches out there that can determine

⏹️ ▶️ John your heart rate optically using infrared light shine through your skin. And by the way, I’ve seen a lot of people tweet at me about various

⏹️ ▶️ John wrist watches and things that use something similar to this. Some reviews suggest this method works fairly well.

⏹️ ▶️ John This changes the equation about what you can and can’t do with the watches. Long-term continuous heart rate monitoring becomes feasible,

⏹️ ▶️ John which can give you all kinds of health information, including heart rate variability. It also makes the process of getting continuous

⏹️ ▶️ John heart rate during exercise much more convenient. However, a lot of my other points still stand. The bigger

⏹️ ▶️ John is, what can you do with this information, and will people really care? You can’t use this information to diagnose or treat any conditions

⏹️ ▶️ John with FDA approval, and studies still show that for most people this kind of data just becomes boring noise. It might

⏹️ ▶️ John motivate some people to exercise in the short run, but long term it just doesn’t happen. This was a big point of his previous feedback that I didn’t mention,

⏹️ ▶️ John like the idea that Fitbit and those other kind of tracker things, it’s kind of like a short term

⏹️ ▶️ John boost, but then people get bored of them and go back to their old habits. Which I don’t think that’s a slam on Fitbit, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John true of all diet and exercise regimes, everyone eventually backslides because that’s the way people are.

⏹️ ▶️ John So he says, I just don’t see this as a big field. Easy to use home blood pressure monitors have been around for ages, and they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly flying off the shelves. The only thing I’ll add to this, other than allowing him

⏹️ ▶️ John to do his self-follow up to say that he was wrong about not having a way to measure heart rate,

⏹️ ▶️ John is that, well, actually, let me read the second bit of follow up, which is from a different person,

⏹️ ▶️ John is also fairly short before I go for the other tangent. This is from Josh Brock. He says, the doctor,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the other person who gave feedback was a doctor, not a biomedical engineer. So this

⏹️ ▶️ John is Josh Brock addressing the doctor’s points. The doctor was so pessimistic about the potential

⏹️ ▶️ John medical use of health book style devices wasn’t wrong but he was thinking too narrowly. While one day’s worth of data

⏹️ ▶️ John probably isn’t useful or interesting, having a year’s worth of prior data could be very useful. Physicians frequently know very

⏹️ ▶️ John little about an individual’s healthy vital signs or long-term health. Most healthy people only have their heart data

⏹️ ▶️ John monitored a few times a year at most. Even people with serious health problems are typically only seen by a physician intermittently

⏹️ ▶️ John and only fully monitorable actually in the hospital. So being able to see a

⏹️ ▶️ John long history of data with long-term trends could open up new opportunities for diagnosis and treatment. So this is what we talked

⏹️ ▶️ John about a little bit in the last thing that while the information may not be particularly interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John to you or useful to you and may not vary that much, it does, if you have long-term

⏹️ ▶️ John information and your doctor can see that, whether they’re monitoring it in real time or whether you just get

⏹️ ▶️ John dumped on them off of your phone or wrist thing, whatever, It’s kind of a better

⏹️ ▶️ John equivalent of the log books that doctors have people keep if they have chronic health conditions, keeping a log of

⏹️ ▶️ John how they felt, what they did in response to it, what medications they took. The doctors will look at that because they

⏹️ ▶️ John just get to see you for a brief period of time, and what they want to know is essentially your history. And you just verbally

⏹️ ▶️ John telling them what happened is probably not that reliable. You keeping a log book, probably

⏹️ ▶️ John more reliable, but having a device monitor things for you is probably, I mean, aside from

⏹️ ▶️ John bad reading and stuff like that, the device’s memory is going to be better than yours. And if it’s something that you wear all the time,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m sure a doctor would love that in addition to hearing what you have to say about how you felt and what you did.

⏹️ ▶️ John The point I wanted to get to about these things not flying off the shelves is that we keep talking about Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John and wearables in terms of all the sensors that are going to have, and whether it’s going to have a screen or not, or whether the screen is going to

⏹️ ▶️ John be a touchscreen or not, or what kind of integration with the phone. But

⏹️ ▶️ John one aspect of the wearables that we talked about way back when that we haven’t talked about much recently

⏹️ ▶️ John things you can use it for besides sensing your health and integrating with your phone. And one of the ones

⏹️ ▶️ John that I think should come back around if it hasn’t already in the rumor mill is using it as a form of identity.

⏹️ ▶️ John Didn’t we talk about that like months and months and months ago?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I don’t remember, probably.

⏹️ ▶️ John Having this thing on you as a way of identifying yourself,

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of like the location-based unlocking thing that the Apple patent was going around the news this week. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John basically, if you pick up your phone, you don’t have to use Touch ID to unlock it. You don’t have to enter a code

⏹️ ▶️ John because you’re wearing your wrist thing, and that identifies you as you. And you walk up to your Mac, it unlocks the screen because you’re wearing the wrist

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, and that identifies you as you. Sort of a Touch ID without touching type of identity thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because I think, not that I think this is a slam dunk that this is what Apple’s going to do with their wearable stuff,

⏹️ ▶️ John but so much of the wearable stuff has been focused on, ironically, not on timekeeping, not

⏹️ ▶️ John on being able to tell what time it is, But on saying there’s something called a watch and what it’s going to do is

⏹️ ▶️ John measure your vitals and record them. And that just seems weird to me that there’s such an incredible

⏹️ ▶️ John health focus. But I mean, maybe not that weird because Apple does have the health kit thing, but they also have

⏹️ ▶️ John home kit and no one is talking about using your wrist thing as a way to turn on lights as you wander through your house or open your garage door

⏹️ ▶️ John as you drive up or whatever. I don’t know. I just throwing that out there

⏹️ ▶️ John so we can get in every possibility before Apple releases something that’s wearable and then we can say, see we talked about that

⏹️ ▶️ John on some show in the past.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So this is to me this is like yet another thing that is not a very compelling justification

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for these devices to exist. It’s like yet another thing where okay well first of all there are some

⏹️ ▶️ Marco security issues with that. There’s also some you know creepiness issues if this becomes your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco identity and I don’t know it’s it’s just it solves problems that most people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think really have in ways that are substantial enough where the gains be big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough that it would be worth having another thing to maintain, buy, and charge.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean, you assume it would be some combination. But like, what did you think about that patent though, for the location-based

⏹️ ▶️ John thing? Basically not having to enter your unlock code or use Touch ID when you’re in your house with your phone or something like that. Is that

⏹️ ▶️ John something you think is worthwhile?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, hell yeah. I’m already using that with my Mac, with Control Plane, Control P-L-A-N-E.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If I remember, we’ll put a link in the show notes. But I think the slogan they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use is context-aware computing, computing, which I may have talked about in the past on the show, but supposed to say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey based on like the network address I have, based on what device, what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey external monitor I’m connected to, based on what Bluetooth devices are nearby, this thing will basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey perform a series of macros to turn on or off my screensaver

⏹️ ▶️ Casey password or to set a default printer or things like that. And it’s wonderful. And I love it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because when I come home after work, it will automatically figure out, oh, at home

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now. Well, let me turn off VMware Fusion. Let me turn off Outlook. Let me turn off link, which is probably crashed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway, and so on. And it’s wonderful. And I really love it. And I’d love to have that for my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John And Marco, you talked about that not being a particularly compelling benefit in and of itself, perhaps not. But just

⏹️ ▶️ John think of how life changing it was when you all got proximity keys for your fancy German cars, right? And how

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t want to go back to having to fish out a key and stick it, you know, like, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John that big a deal. But it’s a big enough deal that you have trouble going back to that type of thing. And if you

⏹️ ▶️ John are in, you know, it’s kind of like Touch ID. Like I’m a pretty big Touch ID convert, despite the fact that I don’t have a

⏹️ ▶️ John Touch ID device. Every time I pick up my wife’s phone, I don’t even know her, you know, security code

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. I just have one of, I just have my one thumb encoded on the thing. And I have a very high success

⏹️ ▶️ John rate with Touch ID. And it’s much better than me having to ask her what her code is and then never remembering

⏹️ ▶️ John it the next time or have her unlock the thing or whatever. I just pick it up and use the Touch thing. And

⏹️ ▶️ John if I’m not going to say this is a reason I’m going to wear a thing around my wrist, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco presumably

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s other reasons that you’re going to wear whatever this wearable thing is. If this is there on top of everything

⏹️ ▶️ John else, like I would definitely use it. I’m sick of typing in my password to unlock my screen at work. I just

⏹️ ▶️ John think it’s ridiculous. I mean, you have to have a screen lock because, you know, corporate policies or whatever. Every time I get up,

⏹️ ▶️ John I lock the screen dutifully and then I have to unlock it when I come back, no matter how long I’m gone. I would love to have a thing

⏹️ ▶️ John on my wrist. I would wear it at work just for this one feature, you know, uh, but I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John I would buy it just for this one feature. So anyway, we, Apple has to come up with a reason for us to all buy

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing and keep it charged and all that good stuff. This is just another possible thing because I definitely wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John buy it to track my vitals, so that is also not compelling to me. Uh, it’s, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know, it’s got to do something, uh, or it could just be another thing that Apple introduces that I don’t don’t buy.

⏹️ ▶️ John So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco add it to the list. Yeah. Our final sponsor this week is Backblaze. Once again,

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco it for a long time. In fact, it kind of saved my butt. Well, in a really trivial way, but save my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco butt yesterday, I was at my mom’s house for the day and I wanted to listen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to a certain album over AirPlay to show her that AirPlay exists on her Apple TV.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I didn’t have that album on my laptop and iTunes Match as usual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was failing for me and just not even showing that it even existed. So I couldn’t download it through iTunes Match.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I went to Backblaze and I pulled it off my computer there. I did a web restore of just that directory and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco downloaded it right there and then I had the album. new. So backblaze this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco online backup is it’s so good I can’t tell you enough how useful online backup is and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how smart it is if you have the upstream to support it you know if you can upload

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what you need to backup within two months I would say do it it’s

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco storage on backblaze and it’s unthrottled you know I’ve been able to upload at ridiculous speeds however

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my internet connection will allow and whatever I set my throttling settings to in their app, it’ll upload at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those speeds. I can’t say the same thing about other services. I tried them before and a lot of times it would throttle me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it would slow me down to like one megabit up and it would’ve taken months and yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad experiences there. Backblades, I’ve never had a problem like that. It’s always been rock solid. I’ve never done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a full restore. Fortunately, I’ve never had to, but I’ve done many partial restores and it’s always been

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey Have we ever gone through all three sponsors during follow-up because we still

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have a little bit more I feel like we’re in hyper critical right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, actually Tiffany I went back and listened to the hyper critical on the first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco episode on game controllers I believe there were two and a half, but we went back and listened to that on the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up to my mom’s house yesterday and As when we pulled into her driveway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we were just finishing follow-up It was like 70 minutes in. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey magnificent. So we have one last piece of follow up, which is about the death of plasma. And I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey might have some thoughts on this, but John, go ahead.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not really the death of plasma because I think LG is still making plasmas, unless I’m mistaken. But anyway, it was

⏹️ ▶️ John the story that was going around this past week was that Samsung is stopping production of its plasma TVs.

⏹️ ▶️ John Panasonic already stopped production of their plasma TVs. And after Panasonic stops like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John they were the best ones, but you can still buy Samsung so those were the second best, buy that instead. I think the Wirecutter,

⏹️ ▶️ John I updated their TV review things that they had previously recommended. Panasonic Plasmas,

⏹️ ▶️ John I eventually had to say, well you can’t get those anymore. So our next choice

⏹️ ▶️ John is the Samsung Plasmas, now they’re going to have to update it again because now Samsung’s not making them anymore. Like I said, I think maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John LG is. But yeah, the days of Plasma are going. There’s a bunch of stories going around the web about

⏹️ ▶️ John mourning the end of Plasma. A lot of them were retreads of when Panasonic stopped, for all the people

⏹️ ▶️ John who care about picture quality saying basically these TVs that are discontinuing

⏹️ ▶️ John have better picture quality than any TVs that have been introduced after them or that you can buy

⏹️ ▶️ John for any price anywhere, which is a shame, and again plasmas do have their downsides, we talked about them on past shows,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re not perfect, but if you care about picture quality, many people are willing to put up with their downsides

⏹️ ▶️ John in exchange for having a better picture. It doesn’t surprise me for the reasons I think we talked about in past shows.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nobody was putting in the money to try to make a 4K plasma, and 4K is clearly

⏹️ ▶️ John the future as far as television manufacturers are concerned anyway. It may not even be technically possible

⏹️ ▶️ John to make a reasonable plasma at 4K because the size of the little, whatever you call

⏹️ ▶️ John them, little pits or thingies that make the picture images are so tiny at 4K that we don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John really have manufacturing processes. I mean, they could develop it, but we already have 4K

⏹️ ▶️ John in LCDs. And even OLED, which was supposed to save us from the scourge

⏹️ ▶️ John of LCD, that’s kind of been backburnered as well. So it seems like we’re just going to be LCD

⏹️ ▶️ John with LED backlights, standard high definition and 4K

⏹️ ▶️ John for the foreseeable future, which is kind of a shame. But I’m glad I brought my brought my Panasonic when I did.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I just hope it lasts a long time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did you ever even think about a 4K TV?

⏹️ ▶️ John No. I was like, I mean, there’s no there’s no content available for it that I care about. And

⏹️ ▶️ John really, like, there is something to be said about screen size and viewing distance and like.

⏹️ ▶️ John 720, 1080, I can kind of tell the difference between my seating distance. 4K.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I mean, if the content was good enough, maybe I could tell the difference, but like nothing I care about

⏹️ ▶️ John is in 4K. everything I care about is in HD. And I figured by the time things that I care about are in 4K,

⏹️ ▶️ John it will be time for me to get a new TV in several years. But I don’t know how long that’s going to take. I mean, that’s 4K is

⏹️ ▶️ John a tougher sell than the HD. Standard def HD is a more compelling consumer case

⏹️ ▶️ John than HD to 4K. So it’s up to content creators and television manufacturers to convince

⏹️ ▶️ John us that we need to go from 1080p to 4K.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was anyway. Look how

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco difficult it was

⏹️ ▶️ John to convince us to go from standard def. and I think that was like as soon as someone sees a high-definition television

⏹️ ▶️ John if they have good vision or if they’re Into sports or something else where you care about sport small details

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a pretty easy sell but 4k. I don’t know. I mean, I guess I guess maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John I haven’t been to see yes and seen the fanciest new 4k TVs. I haven’t seen an OLED 4k TV if those things

⏹️ ▶️ John exist So maybe they’re more convincing but I figure I have many years

⏹️ ▶️ John of service left in this plasma

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I tend to agree and the reason I ask is my parents have just recently moved down to pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Casey close to where Aaron and I are. And so a couple weeks ago, my dad and I went to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Crutchfield store, which those of you who were into car audio in the 90s probably know what Crutchfield

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is and their home office is in Charlottesville, which I bring up, brought up periodically on the show. Well, anyway, we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey went to the store and looked at a few 4K TVs and we were looking for mom and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dad’s house, which the viewing distance or the seating distance, what have you, is like 15 feet

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or something like that for where this is going to be. And I looked at these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 4K displays, a lot of which were curved, by the way, which I don’t really understand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the whole curved TV thing. Maybe there’s a point, but I don’t get it. But anyways, the 4K displays,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, they looked beautiful when you were a foot or two away, but I completely agree at 5, 10, certainly 10,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and definitely 15 feet, I don’t get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. And maybe in five or 10 years when content is available, I will get it. But today,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree with you. I don’t understand.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you can make the screen the size of your wall or something like that, because if we have some technology that could,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, or projectors or whatever, like 4K has a place because eventually the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John becomes way, way bigger. But for television set size screens, where it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like a thing that’s sitting on some kind of pedestal or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know, 4K? I think a lot of it has to do with the content. What kind of things are you trying to show?

⏹️ ▶️ John But at a certain point, it’s like, when people get old, their vision gets bad. You can’t make out that

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of detail on a screen that’s only like 50, 60, 70 inches, and

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a pretty big modern TV. But in the movie theater, when the screen is gigantic,

⏹️ ▶️ John then yeah, that resolution, you know, can be useful.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s the thing is we’re looking at these like 70, 75 inch TVs. And yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mean, you can maybe make out a difference. And to be fair, my eyes are not the best, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey certainly at the 10 or 15 feet that mom and dad’s house is viewing distances at,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do not see the need. Even in like a 75 inch TV, I don’t see the need

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for 4K. And the other thing is, and you just mentioned this, you know, we talked to the salespeople

⏹️ ▶️ Casey both at Crutchfield and at Best Buy. And we were like, so what content is 4k these days? Because this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not this is well out of my wheelhouse, and I don’t keep up with this stuff. And, and so they’re like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some stuff on Netflix. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that’s about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. And that’s about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all you get. And well, any even like what device can output 4k?

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Right, exactly. I mean, I guess the TV could have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a built in.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, like my, for example, my audio video receiver has 4k pass through like a lot of devices

⏹️ ▶️ John a 4K capable at this point. So in theory, if I was getting Netflix at 4K on a

⏹️ ▶️ John device that could output 4K, the pieces are there that it’s possible to view it. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why Netflix is running these kind of experiments. The topically named Pan and Scan in the chat

⏹️ ▶️ John room has a point where 4K isn’t just about resolution, but also,

⏹️ ▶️ John we talked about this before, color depth and refresh rates and other parts of the 4K standard

⏹️ ▶️ John that are a step up from HD. I mean, I think they’re even less compelling

⏹️ ▶️ John to consumers, but as a image quality nerd, I would probably, maybe that’s why

⏹️ ▶️ John I would notice more. Yeah, on my smallish, by projector standards, 55

⏹️ ▶️ John inch TV, the resolution difference wouldn’t be that big, but the color gamut difference could

⏹️ ▶️ John be significant, assuming we get some kind of television technology that has reasonable black levels.

⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah, anyway, I don’t think it’s in the imminent future, which is why I felt entirely safe buying a plain

⏹️ ▶️ John old normal high-definition television last year or whenever I bought this thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Cool. All right. Do we have any topics

⏹️ ▶️ Casey today?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Jonathan Mann Any other follow-up?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know. Is this it? Are we done? Is this the show? Is this what people tune in for? So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we saw a YouTube video from somebody who I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey am not familiar with, who seems to have an iPhone 6

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sapphire display. What do we think about this?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, it’s very impressive. Like, you know, regardless of whether, you know, there’s a bunch of things we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t know. The big two are we don’t know if this is actually an iPhone part or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a part for something else or a fake or something else. And we also don’t know whether it’s actually Sapphire. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was gonna be my big point. Those are the

⏹️ ▶️ John two big ones that we don’t know. My big point, that’s why I put sapphire in quotes, because

⏹️ ▶️ John I have no idea if that’s sapphire or not. Maybe a gorilla glass of that exact same thickness behaves in the

⏹️ ▶️ John exact same way. I don’t know, I’ve never taken a piece of gorilla glass and tried to bend it or stab it with a knife.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I have no idea if this is impressive at all or if that’s exactly what all existing phones are like now. Or, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I don’t know how they would tell. Like, I don’t blame the person for not doing due diligence or whatever. It’s like, I don’t know how you would tell it was

⏹️ ▶️ John sapphire, like a spectrometer or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever is being shown in the video whether or not it’s a real iPhone part and whether or not it’s actually sapphire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does seem to have impressive physical characteristics and does seem to have very good resistance to both scratching

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and bending. I don’t know enough about either of these things to say

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether that’s likely to be a fancy Gorilla Glass product or sapphire I have no idea.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well whatever it is it’s a laminate obviously I mean like if you interfere with sapphire what they mean is that sapphire laminated

⏹️ ▶️ John against something else that’s flexible laminate like it’s obviously I don’t know some some kind of laminate because you can’t,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if the glass ones are, maybe the grill glass is not a laminate, but anything with sapphire, I think would have to be some kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John laminate they’re using for the screen. But I think the most interesting thing about this, even if you assume this entirely fake,

⏹️ ▶️ John is that it shows, I mean, they didn’t measure it. I wish they had measured it, but it shows a 4.7 inch thing, presumably,

⏹️ ▶️ John next to a regular iPhone to give you kind of a size comparison of like, well, it’s bigger. It’s not gigantic,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it does seem, it’s definitely noticeably bigger. And they tried to show like

⏹️ ▶️ John a fake image on what the screen would look like. But they use the same number of icons as if the res was just

⏹️ ▶️ John scaled

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco up.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I’m not sure what they’re, but I put this in a category in the topics of iPhone 6 parts leaks.

⏹️ ▶️ John I haven’t been pursuing parts leaks, but there’s tons of them all. This is just the one I happened to see because it bubbled up in my feed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And to be fair, about half of them are this part.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And that, you know, all sorts of leaks. And this guy also had a mock up of what he thought the back could look like based on all the leaked

⏹️ ▶️ John specs and leaked drawings. And as is the case with most of the

⏹️ ▶️ John past iPhones, all these leaks, I mean, as the parts start to come out,

⏹️ ▶️ John I would think the idea that it’s going to be kind of rounded on the back, kind of like the iPad mini

⏹️ ▶️ John is, and they’re going to be bigger, and 4.7 keeps coming up, and this thing, if it’s 4.7 inches,

⏹️ ▶️ John is a reasonable odd that it could be a part of some kind. We’re starting

⏹️ ▶️ John to get close to the season where we start to see things that are real. So I don’t entirely discount this either.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just thought it was interesting that it’s not just here’s a picture of the part, take a look at it, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the torture test type phenomenon. I would like to see someone do that as soon as the iPhone 6 comes out, take

⏹️ ▶️ John apart an actual iPhone 6 and do the same experiments, do the same experiments with the 5S or whatever. I guess this gets starts

⏹️ ▶️ John getting expensive, but maybe the iFixit people could tackle it because, because I really don’t know the properties of the

⏹️ ▶️ John existing parts for iPhones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, I think it’s very likely this probably is a real iPhone part. This is, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the timing is right. It matches all the things we’ve heard from, you know, general rumor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco voting. You know, it’s it’s matching all the stuff it it is very likely to be a real iPhone part. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big question mark is whether to actually Sapphire and and you’re right like, you know, whether if you took the same part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the you know, the closest similar part, you know, the cover glass of an iPhone 5s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and did the same things. How would it react? What would it be? What would it withstand? Would it be similar or not?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The scratch resistance is one thing, but I think the real

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem that needs to be solved in iPhone cover glass, if it’s possible to easily solve it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not bending, it’s shatter resistance. Like, what happens if you drop it on a corner?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Does the glass shatter as easily or does it shatter less often? That’s the problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people usually have. If they can improve that, that’s big news.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One thing to consider, and I don’t know if this, I don’t know what I’m talking about with manufacturing stuff, so who

⏹️ ▶️ Marco knows, but if they’re going to use Sapphire for the screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco glass of all the new iPhones, the two new sizes, and backing up

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a second, there was on the talk show a couple of weeks ago, Gruber had Paul Cofasas

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on and they were talking and they were both kind of agreeing that they didn’t actually want a 4.7 inch phone to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the new smallest size that they both are perfectly fine with the current five size and don’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to get any bigger and I and so the question if you believe that line of thinking is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know okay well what you know is there a new four inch phone and a new 4.7

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch and a new 5.5 inch like what is the question is is there a new four inch phone or not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I think the answer is very simple for anyone still doubting this I think the answer is 4.7

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will be the new small size period and maybe there might be like a 6s that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are a 6c that still uses the 4 inch size but that’s going to be phased out in the next new model lines

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the as the big size you know goes down in the line I think 4.7 is the new size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we’re gonna have a handful of people saying no I want my phone to stay small and it’s the gonna be the exact

⏹️ ▶️ Marco same thing that happened when they went from three and a half inch to four inch with the five they’re gonna it’s gonna be those handful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of people to say no I don’t want the phone to be any bigger than this and the new one will come out it won’t be that much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bigger and it won’t be a big deal and it’ll probably even be thinner and lighter and so everyone will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just deal with it and everyone will forget about their complaints within six months and that’ll just be the new size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway going back to the beginning of this massive paragraph. If they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to use Sapphire for the screens of these new phones that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of Sapphire It’s really hard to properly communicate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how much they have to make of this stuff. Just materials, supply-wise, like manufacturing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They make so many iPhones. Anything that goes into the iPhone has to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available in quantity. It has to have very high manufacturing yields, very high consistency,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco easily sourced. And I don’t know if… I know they have that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big Sapphire thing in Arizona or wherever, but But it would surprise me if they could make enough

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sapphire all of a sudden to be able to be the glass on every iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, like I said, I think it’s a laminate and it could be some deposition process. Again, I don’t know anything about the manufacturing, but

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s I think it’s within the realm of a reason that

⏹️ ▶️ John they could that because you’re only putting the sapphire there for scratch resistance. Sapphire is not giving you anything in terms of bend

⏹️ ▶️ John or shatter resistance, I would imagine. But anyway, I don’t think you have to make the whole thing out of. I think it just needs

⏹️ ▶️ John to be the surface coating like it’s it’s hardness is this thing and then you back it by other materials

⏹️ ▶️ John whether they be you know, Gorilla Glass or Some thin piece of plastic or something

⏹️ ▶️ John like that So, I don’t know if they keep saying it’s sapphire if everybody’s

⏹️ ▶️ John saying it’s sapphire. I Don’t know how they’re they they can tell I don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John anyone’s measuring it I’m sure we’ll know as soon as Apple introduces it because if it’s sapphire, I’m sure they will emphasize

⏹️ ▶️ John that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh, yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, definitely. I was stunned by the bend resistance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know if that’s the right word I’m looking for, but the way in which this handled bending, which may or may not have anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do with Sapphire, but my goodness, this thing was bent a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and didn’t crack. And certainly the scratch resistance was incredible. But the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dude in the video noted that he didn’t really have an appropriate way to test

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dropping it on a corner, which is what you guys brought up a minute ago, because he didn’t have the rest of an iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to mount this thing against. But I agree that that’s the real test, because pretty much anyone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I know with an issue with their iPhone display or Android display, for that matter, is because they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dropped it in some way and it shattered.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I’ve seen scratches on screens to like little nicks or whatever, but I’ve seen like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hard to notice them because they’re small. What you notice is the person using a phone with an actual crack in it, and no one is ever going

⏹️ ▶️ John to bend their screen like that because if you bend it that much, the rest of the phone is broken now. It

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey doesn’t matter

⏹️ ▶️ John if the screen can bend that much, the rest of the printed circuit board can’t bend that much. And so if you ever bend

⏹️ ▶️ John your phone that much, it’s dead. But if you drop your phone into the concrete and it lands on a corner or smacks face down

⏹️ ▶️ John and it shatters, then you have the choice of, you know, getting the screen replaced or just sitting there as I see so

⏹️ ▶️ John many people doing and swiping their thumbs across fractured pieces of glass just like you think

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re going to cut themselves.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or you know, you just spend 15 bucks at the Apple store and get one of those horrible stick-on screen protectors and just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope that covers it up enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Might even hold it together a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Anything else on the iPhone 6? Oh, I should note, I’ll answer my own question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I agree with both Gruber and Kefasis in that I don’t want a bigger iPhone, but I think you’re right, Marco,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that the 4.7 or whatever, the smaller of the new ones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think will be the smallest high-end iPhone. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I can get behind a 4.7, but goodness, this 5 or 5.5 or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whatever it was, I do not want that in my life. That just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seems like a darn tablet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m going to have a very hard time choosing between the two if the screen size is the only substantial difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If there’s something else, if there’s rumors that the camera might be different if the camera is substantially better on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one or the other, I will almost certainly get the one with the better camera. I can’t imagine you know just marketing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wise it would be very strange if the biggest one wasn’t the best one and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chances are the biggest iPhone whether it will be you know whether it’s called the iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco air the iPhone six plus whatever the five and a half inch iPhone if it’s real it’s very likely to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have the best of everything that Apple has to offer And so it’s very likely that some of us are gonna convince ourselves to buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. If the best one is the huge one, then I’ll probably try it. And I’ll take the bullet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for all of us. I know John, you’re not gonna buy anything. And Casey, you’re gonna stick with the small one or you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wait two years and I can make fun of you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly, I’m in and off here this year. So I’ve got another year to wait.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do we have parts leaks for the 5.5? It’s a rumored 5.5 inch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s a good

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco question.

⏹️ ▶️ John And still I see some parts leaks for that. I continue to think that it’s like Casey said,

⏹️ ▶️ John I diversification fine, but a new 4.7 size while keeping around the old five

⏹️ ▶️ John S in a different case or whatever, even in the same case, that’s reasonable diversification. I’m not

⏹️ ▶️ John sure they need a 5.5. Maybe they’re gonna have one, who knows. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I would like to see parts leaks for that because I more or less I want to see what it looks like, you know, proportion

⏹️ ▶️ John wise and line up all three of them and show them next to a hand and see what that would be like.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just, I don’t feel like I have, and I think I’ve said this before, I don’t feel like I have that much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey excess pocket space in order to stuff a five and a half inch phone. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for those of us who leave the house, ahem, everyone but Marco, uh, that’s kind of an issue.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I don’t, I don’t have a purse. I don’t have a man purse.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so my phone lives in my pocket and I don’t think I want a five and a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey half inch phone in my pocket. I just don’t. But whatever. We’ll see. Remind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me of this when I buy one in a year and a half or whatever. But sitting here today, I don’t think I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want that in my life.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Harry’s, and Backblaze

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and we will see you next week.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann You can find the show notes at

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann And if you’re into Twitter, you can follow them At

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann E-N-T Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann Syracuse, oh, it’s accidental

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Because John insists on using stupid Google Docs for our show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes, I keep the show bot open in Chrome because Google Chrome is my Google.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What did you call quarantine? Hell, whatever you called it, Marco. Yeah. So about an hour

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago, somebody Hunter H suggested question mark in a box in a question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mark in a box, which is because stupid Chrome still doesn’t support emoji. It’s ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That is so evil of Google.

⏹️ ▶️ John It is. It’s the real reason you don’t use Chrome.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Open always wins. So I’ve been working on a very basic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco web interface for Overcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And why have

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann you been doing that, Marco? Because it had to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be done?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, it’s because I whined to you about the fact that there wasn’t a web player.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann That too.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay. So, anyway, some people whined to me about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, I made a very basic web player and I turned on content security policy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in very strict mode, so that it disables any of the things that begin with unsafe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The hardest thing about that is that you can’t use inline style or script tags. What?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Script tags were easy to pull out inline style tags are not that easy to pull out if you’ve already written a whole bunch of code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the advantage of content security policy is That so for those of you who don’t know it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s still pretty rarely used I think it’s pretty new and pretty hard to use but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There’s these couple of headers you set as a web programmer you said a couple of headers or one header, but three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco times to build the stupid vendor prefixes because web programming is awesome and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the header basically says only permit JavaScript from these sources only permit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco style stuff see you know CSS styles from these sources only permit images from these sources and so on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and and the the spec even kind of inherently yells at you if you enable content

⏹️ ▶️ Marco security policy at all if you want these things like by default it I believe won’t allow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything and if you want the ability to use like an inline style attribute

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on something or an inline script you have to say allow unsafe-inline

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or unsafe eval because eval is also unsafe and like it’s it’s a it’s a pretty well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco implemented standard right there well designed standard I think because it’s designed to inherently

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yell at you if you set things unsafely so anyway so I’ve now made my entire interface

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it as it yeah it’s a very small interface it’s a very small app so far but I now have my thing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where it’s, it only allows things from, from the from its own

⏹️ ▶️ Marco host, and the host of the CDN. That’s, you know, the service from the static pages, and that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s great. And I’m wondering, Casey, why don’t you play with this?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, why don’t you use this on show bot because it would it would help dramatically reduce

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the number of people who would ever be exposed to XSS on your site if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were to miss a vulnerability? I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably should, but I don’t need to because the showbot’s still up. What now?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, yeah, but… I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I understand your point. I probably should. To be honest,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this was not something I was familiar with. So I’ll have to look into it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do sort by votes first, please.

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Yeah, actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco that’s…

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann, Marco please do that first. That’s a fair request. Sort by votes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco first. It’s a cool standard. I learned about it roughly a year ago, I think,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco GitHub enabled it. And the way I learned about it is that at first,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like when it was very first implemented by browsers, most of them would also block

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bookmarklet execution because that was a script that didn’t come from blah blah blah. And the standard specifically says

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bookmarklets should not be interfered with, but the browsers all missed that the first time. And so it broke

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bookmarklets for a little while. But now, certainly Chrome and Safari

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have fixed that. Firefox was the last one to fix it. I don’t know if they have yet, but who cares? It’s Firefox.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you remember back in the day when that was lean and mean? I know we’ve been over this at some point, but… Yeah!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My name’s on the poster when they launched. I donated like 50 bucks and got my name like in the big ad, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big full-page ad they were running in like the some maybe it was New Times, I don’t know. Yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was like a backer of Firefox and I wrote Firefox extensions at my first job in 2004, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was a terrible time to write Firefox extensions. It was like Like it was, I believe when I started it was still called

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Phoenix, whatever.7 was. Yeah, Firefox was awesome

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back in the day. The problem is the world moved on and Firefox

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really didn’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, it became what it was trying to solve. Because remember Netscape was just this bloated,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey disgusting mess. And so Firefox was all lean and mean and it was a small

⏹️ ▶️ Casey download and it was fast as hell. And then next thing you know, fast forward like four

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years and it’s the disgusting bloated mess that Netscape once was.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it was standards compliant. So in addition to being lean and mean, it was like we’re going to write the standards. And they did do that

⏹️ ▶️ John because all the browsers that supplanted it, you know, conformed to standards with the exception of IE until very

⏹️ ▶️ John recently and even then

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco still

⏹️ ▶️ John annoyingly. But it succeeded in that mission. It’s just that other people picked up the mantle and moved on because,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, it’s got the Firefox has the oldest code base. Well, I don’t know. It’s KHTML’s

⏹️ ▶️ John oldest module. It’s got it’s only got the creakiest code base. The other ones have had much more recent

⏹️ ▶️ John attention to get them cleaned up I mean aren’t the Mozilla guys trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John write a new rendering engine and rust that’s why they’re doing the whole rust thing so maybe they will rise again,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they did you know, they became they were the flagship for standards

⏹️ ▶️ John and Now we have standards everywhere and standards are what we want and I isms are mostly dead

⏹️ ▶️ John with the exception of the ones that are still supported by the versions of IE that we still have to deal with. So it kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John succeeded in its mission. So I don’t think it’s a, like it died by getting fat and ugly and it failed. This mission

⏹️ ▶️ John is it succeeded. It’s just that now it’s a little long in the tooth. I mean, I remember I used

⏹️ ▶️ John to use Firefox, uh, because fire bug was the best and only reasonable way to debug stuff on the web

⏹️ ▶️ John and I just gradually shifted off onto, uh, for a while I was using Safari’s dev tools when the web kit ones

⏹️ ▶️ John are really good now I use Chrome’s dev tools, which I think Safari covers all the same basis, but I’ve just kind of gotten to

⏹️ ▶️ John use it to Chrome’s dev tools interface, kind of like where things are until they change it, I guess.

⏹️ ▶️ John But no, I haven’t launched Firefox in forever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I cannot remember the last

⏹️ ▶️ Jonathan Mann time I’ve launched Firefox. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use it to post to Twitter when we make a new episode of the show because I leave it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I leave Firefox signed in to that account on Twitter and that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You have a quarantine for everything. How How many browsers do you have?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, Chrome, I used Chrome for some other Twitter log, and I forget which one. So I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wanted to keep them separate. I really should just install a Twitter app again on my desktop, is what I’m saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You don’t have, like, Tweetbot on your desktop or anything?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I deleted it in a fit of productivity boosting, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I use this app called Rescue Time that tracks how long you spend doing things and sends you a report every week saying, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you spent 16 hours in Xcode, 4 hours in Logic, blah, blah, blah. And it kept

⏹️ ▶️ Marco telling me every week that I was apparently spending roughly four hours a week using Twitter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that wasn’t just one week. That was consistent. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I realized, you know what? I should really not be spending that much time with it. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to force myself not to spend much time with it, I deleted the complete app. Because it’s one thing you can just redownload

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an app, but with a Twitter app, you have to log into each of the accounts separately. And that’s a pain in the butt. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I knew that it would be a significant barrier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to put it back. I was actually just thinking about putting it back earlier today, because in my effort

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not to have it on my desktop, what I have instead, so right now I have my laptop, which I still have it installed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco During our show, I keep Tweetbot open so I can see replies coming in from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people, similar to how I have the chat window open. So during our show, I have to have my laptop next to me over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here as the second screen, showing Twitter during the day. If I post a tweet, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still can post tweets from Notification Center, but I can’t read the responses like it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But many times I have to have a conversation with somebody over Twitter DMs, and sometimes it’s personal, sometimes it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco business. Either way, it’s a way that a lot of people communicate, and so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I frequently have to have the Twitter website open in a tab so I can use the DM thing there so I can type quickly instead of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using my phone. Or like, you know, I’ll have the laptop on this side, which is annoying, and then it’s open

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway, and then it’s just a different computer, and I have to copy links back and forth between the two, and it’s annoying. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have to, or like, I’ll ask a question on Twitter, and then I’ll be reading the responses on my phone, on my desk,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bent over, and it’s just like, I’m jumping through a lot of hoops to still use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Twitter anyway. And so my rationale is like, I should probably add it back because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m using it anyway, just ways that rescue time doesn’t really track as easily.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I’m using it anyway, and it would actually be faster if I had the real app on my desktop again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because all these things I wouldn’t have to jump through as many hoops. They wouldn’t be, you know, transferring things back and forth between devices.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’d be able to do things with keyword shortcuts and type faster. So it’s I think I should just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco put it back. But I don’t know. Is that isn’t that really exciting? I love that. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Lots of discussion about workflows.

⏹️ ▶️ John put in the chat room a link to the Wikipedia article showing the rendering web rendering engine timelines and

⏹️ ▶️ John among Gecko, KHTML and WebKit Gecko is slightly older than

⏹️ ▶️ John KHTML and also older than Trident which I think is what IE uses now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The reason why I think most people abandoned Firefox over the last few years didn’t have a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot to do with Gecko and had more to do with the Firefox interface you know being based

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on Zool and and having like having a whole bunch of crap being able to be thrown in and having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco extensions. Extensions kind of made and broke Firefox. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made it in that a lot of people used it for a while. A lot of people still use it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because certain extensions are only there or even only possible there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But what made those extensions possible was that the whole Firefox interface is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco built on, I assume it still is, please tell me if this is out of date information, but it was built

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on this big XML specification where the whole browser was specified

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in XML and had all these complexities. And that’s one of the reasons why it never really looks quite native and never looks quite

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right on the platform and why it’s very slow. Because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basically a web page. And it’s more complicated than that, but that’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the gist of it. It’s like it’s specified in this very heavy, customizable language so that it can be so flexible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So extensions can do anything. Extensions are written in the same language. can control everything, do everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The browser was like this giant, slow interpreter to run all this crap,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco including its own interface. And that, I think, made Firefox feel much heavier

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and slower and more bloated. It certainly made it look pretty bad. They didn’t have very good design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either. But so it felt big and slow. It was big and slow. And it looked big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and slow. And in the era where now everything needs to be efficient and fast and getting better and JavaScript

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting better and everything’s getting better and faster. And Firefox is this big bloated slow thing in the corner.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, hasn’t been good in a while as far as I’m concerned. That’s right. Hey, can we talk about something important?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like your show about my Twitter productivity, or Firefox, the most current topic in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the world? What’s more important than these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things? So what’s more important than these things is what I just put in the chat room, which is somebody

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dynoed a new M3.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Can you translate to English for those of us who don’t, who are not experts in this field?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Does this refer to a dinosaur in any way?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. So somebody put a new M3 on a dynamometer, which measures

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how much power the car produces, and they compared it to the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey prior generation M3, which is from my generation, and my goodness, you should see the torque

⏹️ ▶️ Casey curve on this thing. It goes from no torques to use a top gearism to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey darn near all of its torques in 1000 RPM. It’s ridiculous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re the worst. John, do you at least slightly appreciate this?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Somebody help me out here.

⏹️ ▶️ John The magic of turbos.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yep. So it is the magic of turbos. However, my car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually doesn’t have a curve that different from this and I can tell you it’s mostly useless because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you actually give it full power at low revs you just lose grip in the tire spin like you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t actually use all of your torque off the line which is where I think it matters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most you can’t use it all because it’s too much power for two wheels to put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco down

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if only you had a four-wheel drive m car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know that well there is one but it’s terrible I wish they would make some better ones

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t you have launch control on that thing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, how many times have you tried it? Zero. Isn’t the point of launch control to spin the wheels even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more?

⏹️ ▶️ John No! No, the computer controls making sure that you

⏹️ ▶️ John get the car moving as fast as possible so it’s going to modulate the throttle and does it modulate the brakes?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, anyway, it wants to maintain friction right on the ragged edge of you losing traction

⏹️ ▶️ John but not going over it in a way that you could kind of like anti-lock brakes in a way that you couldn’t do yourself if you were modulating

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s why that was that the most recent car and driver they have the Porsche 918

⏹️ ▶️ John going to 60 in 2.2 seconds. That’s that’s launch control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s insane to me like this is exciting It’s exciting in that the M cars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco keep getting much better and they’re able to get this much power out of a six-cylinder again So the cars are getting smaller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lighter Or at least you know making the same weight and getting more powerful close enough But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t need more power like power is not the challenge right now now they need lower weight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they need any better traction and I think they’re pretty much at the limits on the BMW side

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they’re pretty much at the limits of how much torque you can apply to two wheels and have it be reasonably useful

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they need to move to an auto drive system in the M cars that’s it like they they just need there’s too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much power there and this is what the current generation what are you gonna do with the next generation of these things where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco presumably the powers are gonna go even further up and the way it’s gonna go down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how are you gonna apply those power to the road?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah I’m not so sure you’re right but we’ll argue about this forever more but to come back to what John was saying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I’m attempting and failing there we go to put a link in the chat room of me this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey past I think was this past winter in my car doing a four-wheel burnout in snow

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and I did I took the video or actually Aaron took the video using one of our iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in high frame rate mode. And if you look at the front tire, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can see it slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up, slowing down, speeding up in order because the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey traction control is trying to keep me moving forward. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a very fascinating video seeing it in slow mode because I can assure you that when you see this at full speed,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it did not look like that was happening at all. And as a quick aside, a friend of mine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who has a chipped rear drive,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 335 said to me that he went through rear brakes extremely quickly because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the traction control was just melting all the rear brakes trying to keep him moving

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forward. And I just thought that was hysterical.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think launch control does the same thing as traction control, though. I think the idea of launch control is there. I mean, someone

⏹️ ▶️ John correct me if I’m wrong, but that it’s It’s not using the brakes as much as traction control

⏹️ ▶️ John on a slippery surface

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is. I think you’re right. I think it’s more about clutch application and how many revs you have when you pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dump the clutch. But I think at least in part it uses

⏹️ ▶️ Casey brakes in order to get everything moving forward. Although an M car actually has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a limited slip, which I guess helps.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, now I don’t feel bad at all about talking for like two minutes about my Twitter productivity

⏹️ ▶️ Marco challenges. Because now you’ve spent time on this.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was never gonna cut all this out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh i want everyone to know how boring we are