Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

27: Overflow Gallery In The Bathroom

More on photo storage, whomever sent Casey the Oatmeal comic, IFTTT and Twitter, gold iPhones, and the new TiVo.

Episode Description:
  • Querying Florida.
  • Photo storage follow-up: whether people even want long-term photo storage anymore, using web services as backups, and Ogg-encoded tinfoil hattery.
  • The Time Capsule's tough sell.
  • Casey's helpful fans.
  • IFTTT and Twitter.
  • The gold/"champagne" iPhone, not getting a larger iPhone this year, and the future of the Lightning connector.
  • The new TiVo.
  • After-show: John's ebook-testing setup, the awful Kindle Previewer, and technical ebook woes. (See also: Serenity Caldwell at Cingleton 2012.)
  • Plus, a very special after-after-show Neutral loosely about the M4.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re doing like inline and online, you know the one that’s driving me nuts lately that I keep seeing

⏹️ ▶️ John online, meaning on the internet, is grown people,

⏹️ ▶️ John I guess, also intelligent people, saying on accident.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh god, that’s the worst. Rather than by accident?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah. Oh, that drives me

⏹️ ▶️ John nuts. Not like ironically, not isolated cases, but just it’s rampant. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John there are I think there’s whole sections of the adult population to think that’s perfectly acceptable way to talk and

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t think anything of it Most of the go there because the weather is nice. That’s why they go to Florida,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but the weather in Florida is terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I know

⏹️ ▶️ John they go in the winter. They don’t go in the summer,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey right? That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the whole snowbird phenomenon They go down in the winter to Florida and then come back to New York

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in In summer,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my grandparents do my Jewish grandparents that live in Boca Raton like every other set of Jewish grandparents

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I’m outnumbered on the show in the pronunciation of that state too. So I’ll just let that one slide. Sorry,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Florida

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re supposed to be in New Yorker now you do a piss-poor job

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from Ohio. Give me a

⏹️ ▶️ John Tiff’s supposed to whip you into shape. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Don’t even speak well for an Ohio and if it makes you feel any better

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no, you’re just you’re a mongrel without a home.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m supposed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to say anything I think I think being from Ohio is supposed to things like Warsh and the shopping cart

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a buggy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, but you do say you do say the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco word

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my groceries and some sacks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you say the word Q U E R Y Like either an Ohioan or or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John pencil crazy or a crazy person or a person.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it’s it’s not query. It’s query

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s what? Pronunciation we have follow-up to get to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it. Let’s do some follow-up

⏹️ ▶️ John The very first item is an ancient follow-up that we never managed to mention I think in one past show I was saying how I couldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John figure out what version of bug shot I was running and Couldn’t think of a way to look up the version in

⏹️ ▶️ John the app and many people wrote and tell us if you go to settings general usage and select the app that you can

⏹️ ▶️ John see the version number and I could swear I did that but apparently I didn’t so there you go the iSCSI

⏹️ ▶️ John one I think we did address so you could actually delete that one the fact that if you even if you use iSCSI

⏹️ ▶️ John you can’t just take the drive out and put it in your Mac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John right it depends

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the implementation of the enclosure whether it has raw disk access or whether it uses some other intermediary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco layer.

⏹️ ▶️ John And a NAS probably doesn’t, but maybe just some box with a disk in it might. But anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said, I still haven’t tried iSCSI with my NAS yet, so I still can’t actually tell you whether

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Synology does or not.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yeah. We going to talk about that today, eventually, someday? We have tons of topics, I know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we do need to talk about that. Did you open your present yet or no? I did.

⏹️ ▶️ John I could not resist.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, man, it’s so good. But let’s keep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John with the follow-up. We can save

⏹️ ▶️ John it for the show. All right, and so the real follow up here is from people talking to me about backups, because

⏹️ ▶️ John we talked about on the Three Phones Ago show about the

⏹️ ▶️ John problem of preserving your photos on your phone or otherwise.

⏹️ ▶️ John The first one is from Ben Griffel, and he says, one thing came to mind. What if backing

⏹️ ▶️ John up photos simply isn’t as important to the current or younger generation of people? When you have 1,000 photos on your phone, how important

⏹️ ▶️ John is any one photo? I thought I mentioned that on the show. Maybe Apple’s idea is,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t worry about it. Don’t be such a pack rat. Take your pictures, enjoy them, look at them,

⏹️ ▶️ John and 10 years from now, yeah, you won’t have these photos, but so what?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think that’s the case. I think it’s really just that trying to deal with every,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like trying to deal with all of everybody’s photos is just such a large-scale

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem and has so many other problems that we discussed with things like upload bandwidth and storage, things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like that. Videos are whole the problem where you know these these devices can can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco capture new data So quickly like if you open up your iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and record a 30-second video. That’s a few hundred megs Right and something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey and so something

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know it’s these devices and the photos aren’t that much better You know if you snap a bunch of photos in the night that could be 50

⏹️ ▶️ Marco megs

⏹️ ▶️ John photos are way better I mean I like I said I think photos are in the realm possibility video

⏹️ ▶️ John forget it like there’s no So there’s no chance of that. Just, I mean, storage capacity alone. You can’t even store

⏹️ ▶️ John it on, you know, so. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for

⏹️ ▶️ John photos, it’s within the realm of reason.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But it’s like a dirty problem to Apple. Like Apple, they know that they can’t do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco online backup of all your photos and all your videos. Even though these devices try to make those two things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very easy to capture and encourage you to capture them. And they put them all together in one big bin on the device.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s why I think like, since they can’t really do it well, and they probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco won’t be able to do it well the foreseeable future of backing up all of your all of your photos forever and all your videos forever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think they just kind of say you know what that you’re on your own for that even though whatever we think about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that solution I think that’s the clear message from them which is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John like I think

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they would be like they would like to do it they’re just doing a bad job of it and actually if we well

⏹️ ▶️ John I want to get through this follow-up and we could talk more about some other things that have come up related to this but technically

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah but Ben’s point is that maybe it’s not important to the consumers to the current or

⏹️ ▶️ John younger generation like we’re talking about it but we’re old or whatever but like maybe younger people don’t care

⏹️ ▶️ John I suppose that’s possible but I have a hard time believing that there’s such a generation gap

⏹️ ▶️ John you know value change in values in terms of memories it’s true that

⏹️ ▶️ John the younger generations are producing much more of it so maybe that makes each individual photo worth a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John less but I think the idea that you know you’ll want to see

⏹️ ▶️ John pictures from your honeymoon or your wedding or from when your baby was born or from when you graduated college or when

⏹️ ▶️ John you were in high school like the desire to see those and to preserve those in some form

⏹️ ▶️ John somewhere is not a generational thing like people will want to do that and that’s the killer

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the it’s not so much like oh I don’t care about the photo I took last year it’s 10 years

⏹️ ▶️ John from now 15 years from now 20 years from now you almost certainly will want to see something maybe not every single

⏹️ ▶️ John picture but you want to see something and that’s kind of you know maybe that would actually be a viable strategy of just

⏹️ ▶️ John thinning out your pictures as you go through the past but I don’t think that’s reasonable because I think storage capacities

⏹️ ▶️ John will increase so much that won’t be necessary but but anyway that was one interesting point and another one this is

⏹️ ▶️ John from Twitter no one was email and this one’s Twitter Jared Tate said he he said

⏹️ ▶️ John it should not be anyone else’s responsibility but the end-user for backups he means and he says obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s too complex of the issue discussed via tweet I agree with that but But ignorance is not a good enough reason to

⏹️ ▶️ John force autonomous backup. So this person’s position seems to be that

⏹️ ▶️ John I was asking for Apple to take care of this and said it’s not Apple’s problem. It’s not Apple’s responsibility.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s the only person’s responsibility. It’s the end user’s responsibility. And ignorance, as in you don’t know enough

⏹️ ▶️ John to know how to do your backups, is not a good enough reason to force autonomous backups, as

⏹️ ▶️ John in it’s like the state or the Apple or whatever, forcing you or putting upon you this automated

⏹️ ▶️ John backup system. And there’s no justification for that. I guess this person doesn’t want Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John getting in their business or pulling their photos down or, you know, whatever. So there’s a little bit of tinfoil

⏹️ ▶️ John hat-ery in here, but again, Twitter is kind of short to, uh, to understand this. But the whole idea that it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John anyone’s responsibility, but the end user, like that’s, there’s, there’s a time for those

⏹️ ▶️ John types of feelings, but the time passes. Right. So it’s like, it shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John be anyone else’s responsibilities but the driver’s to figure out what the correct fuel-air mixture

⏹️ ▶️ John is at a given temperature and barometric pressure and RPM

⏹️ ▶️ John and throttle position. Really, I mean, it’s not really the responsibility. Seriously, drivers have to take

⏹️ ▶️ John some responsibility for themselves. And what was it? They have like a choke knob or something

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they used to have in the cars, right? Yeah, boats have those, right? Or they used to,

⏹️ ▶️ John at least. Yeah, and it’s like, that’s your responsibility as a driver. You should not be pushing

⏹️ ▶️ John that off under the car manufacturers. But now that sounds crazy, right? So the bar shifts. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John things that used to be the responsibility of the operator and people get self-righteous about like, we were just talking about shifting and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, that should be the responsibility of the driver. And it’s fun to do. And it makes you a real driver, and so on and so forth. But none

⏹️ ▶️ John of us would be like, I really need to control the fuel injectors, because

⏹️ ▶️ John otherwise I don’t feel like I’m really driving.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John surprised this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guy even heard our show, because I’m guessing. I mean, what do you think the chances are he’s a desktop Linux

⏹️ ▶️ Marco user.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. You can’t tell from two

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco tweets. It’s very difficult to catch voice.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If he’s a desktop Linux user, and we only encode this show as an MP3. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t do aug-vorbis. And so I’m actually kind of surprised he has heard the show at all.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Please email Marco.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, like, the idea, it’s easy to make fun of that, of like people saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you should take responsibility. Like, because we’ve all had that feeling, especially when we’re younger, at certain points of like that

⏹️ ▶️ John these skills that you have that you’re proud of that other people don’t have, they don’t deserve the benefits that come with that skill. So if you can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John figure out how to do your own backups, fine. It’s not Apple’s problem to solve your problem. You know, it’s a kind of a nanny state kind of, oh, they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to come and solve all your stuff. That’s not their problem. That’s your problem. But like, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous. Like, what do you think you’re paying Apple for? Like, they’re giving you a device that does things. And every year

⏹️ ▶️ John it does more and better things. And previously it didn’t do these things. And then like, you want them to solve your problems for

⏹️ ▶️ John you. And if one of your problems is, I’m worried that 30 years from now I won’t have any pictures of my children,

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, of course, is it Apple’s responsibility? No, they’re not held at gunpoint having to do this, but they want to make a product that people want

⏹️ ▶️ John to buy, so you’ve got to give features that people want. So if this person doesn’t want those features and is happy taking

⏹️ ▶️ John responsibility for his own backups, that’s perfectly fine. But that’s not how Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John stays in business and makes products that people want to buy, and I think he has a minority opinion.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco figure there’s also probably some, and I’m sure this is a relatively small effect,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but there would be some effect where, you know, if somebody had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some kind of horrible disaster, which really isn’t that uncommon these days, let’s say you know a phone goes down the toilet while lightning strikes their house

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and people break in and steal their disconnected drives, so all their stuff is gone. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get some new stuff from their insurance companies, check, they go to the Apple Store, get a new MacBook, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco log into their stuff and all their stuff is back, all their photos are back, all their kids’ memories are all back.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That could make them incredibly loyal customers for life. In the same way that bringing in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco another car analogy, a lot of times people who have been in a serious car accident in which their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car has performed extremely well in safety and really protected them, a lot of times then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco after that, they only will ever buy that kind of car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John because it treated them so well. Which doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John make that much sense. And neither does the Apple thing. Really what you want to happen is for it to go past. That’s the honeymoon period

⏹️ ▶️ John transition. You want it to going to the point where no one is overjoyed that their pictures are preserved or their

⏹️ ▶️ John house burns down. But they’re furious if every single picture is not preserved. That’s the next phase, where you’re like, everyone takes it for granted.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco true.

⏹️ ▶️ John And there’s only a downside, as a vendor. We’re not even close to that. So you’re right. There would definitely be a period, like I was

⏹️ ▶️ John saying in the last show, if you were the company to do this first, everyone else would be like, oh, I lost these pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John and blah, blah, blah. And you’d be like, well, I don’t have to worry about that, because insert name of company or product or service that has

⏹️ ▶️ John proven itself again and again to keep your crap. Lots of people were emailing me and twittering me and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John and saying, why isn’t iCloud backup enough? Isn’t that sufficient? Except for the fact that you have to pay, which I think

⏹️ ▶️ John I complained about on Hypercritical even once. Making it be a small amount and

⏹️ ▶️ John then saying, oh, you gotta pay to actually backup everything that’s on your phone, I think is cruel and stupid. But

⏹️ ▶️ John the money is what it is. And on the last show I said, fine, you can charge for it or whatever. But they’re saying, well, all right, so if you charge

⏹️ ▶️ John money and you pay for iCloud backup to your phone, isn’t that a perfect solution? And I was amazed at the number of people who came

⏹️ ▶️ John up with that. And I was like, you know, children were born before 2007.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just screw them, I guess. I mean, like, their pictures aren’t on the phone. You didn’t take them on the phone because you didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have an iPhone. And people have these things called cameras. And I know they’re so rare and stuff like that. And some people were saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John most people just take all their pictures on their phone. Like, I know phones are popular. But I think people still have

⏹️ ▶️ John cameras. Like, I think that is a big enough thing that you can’t ignore it. So people have cameras. And people have children

⏹️ ▶️ John born before 2007 or before they got an iPhone. There exist pictures that are not on their phone. And it’s just not

⏹️ ▶️ John a tenable solution. Like, storage of phones is not increasing rapidly enough, especially if people are gonna take

⏹️ ▶️ John any video at all, for you to be able to have your whole library on your phone. So even if your entire phone is completely backed up,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, with iCloud and all that good stuff, because you pay for it, that does not solve your photo problem for your family,

⏹️ ▶️ John or even for your individual life, unless you have no cameras and no memories

⏹️ ▶️ John that you care about before you got your first iPhone that you’ve been schlepping your pictures from one phone to the other.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I think that is currently not a tenable solution. Maybe in the future, no one will have cameras. And all

⏹️ ▶️ John the babies born before 2007, no one cares about them anymore. And they’ll just be like, well, I’m, you know, I came of age

⏹️ ▶️ John in the age of the iPhone. All my pictures has always been on my phone. Every year I transfer every single one of my pictures to my new phone. They’re all

⏹️ ▶️ John backed up in iCloud. And I pay for it every year. And therefore I never have to worry about my photos.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I think that is incredibly rare and we’re not there yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So let me ask stupid question of the night. Why doesn’t Apple with their $8 gazillion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the bank just buy Crash Plan or I’m drawing a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John blank on the list. Or EverPix. Or EverPix. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I just signed up for EverPix after the last show. I’d known about it for a while, and I’m like, you know what, after that last show, why don’t I just try

⏹️ ▶️ John out this EverPix thing?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Was it good?

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, like, I don’t know if I’m going to keep using it. Like, it was like $50 for a year. I just paid for the whole year. I

⏹️ ▶️ John just wanted to see how they did. Like, how long will it take them to get all my photos? How good will they be about pulling my photos? EverPix is a service,

⏹️ ▶️ John by the way, that takes all your photos and, like the name says, they keep them forever. Full resolution.

⏹️ ▶️ John organize them for you and they will suck them from any one of your devices. And by the way, many people wrote in and told me that Google Plus

⏹️ ▶️ John promises to do something similar if you take it on your Android phone, they get pulled into Google Plus. Oh, that’ll be around forever. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that’s the thing I thought about with like people saying, you know, that all Google Plus will do that for you. Like, are you kidding?

⏹️ ▶️ John Like they have not, they have a long way to go before I’m going to trust them to take care of all my pictures forever. Like I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John even trust them to keep track of my email forever. Like every piece of email that’s in Gmail I have on my own computer that’s backed

⏹️ ▶️ John up. You know what I mean? Like they have not earned that. Whereas EverPix, at least you said, look, that’s their whole business. It’s in their friggin name.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like maybe they’re going to go out of business. Maybe they’re a startup. Maybe Apple’s going to buy them and shut them down. But clearly,

⏹️ ▶️ John for as long as they’re in business, they are totally serious about keeping your pictures. And so I signed

⏹️ ▶️ John up for it. It pulled in all my pictures in. First, I just let it go on my little library and I saw

⏹️ ▶️ John that it was working. And then I said, all right. And that was like the free trial. And then I signed up for my account for my wife because she’s

⏹️ ▶️ John got the family iPhoto library on her computer. It pulled them all in. I mean, granted, I have a big upload connection,

⏹️ ▶️ John But it was pretty seamless, it worked. Their web interface is probably not how I’d want

⏹️ ▶️ John to manage my pictures, but it’s interesting that if someone says, oh, where’s that picture of whatever? Now, no matter where I am in the world,

⏹️ ▶️ John I can just go to and find the picture that they’re asking about and give them the full res. I did it already after

⏹️ ▶️ John I came back from my vacation. My mom asked, where’s that picture of us with the grandkids? Because I hadn’t copied onto

⏹️ ▶️ John their SD card, because we took it on the last day we were there right before we left. Right. And she sent me that email when I was

⏹️ ▶️ John at work. I just pulled up the website, pulled out the high res pictures, emailed them to her. So I give the

⏹️ ▶️ John service a thumbs up. I still think Apple should buy them and just like, because again, they seem to have worked out most of these things here. Why doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple do that? Charge a similar amount of money, maybe less, build it into every iPhone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know they’re kind of trying to do the same thing with PhotoStream, but nobody I know, even the super geeks, knows

⏹️ ▶️ John all the rules about how PhotoStream works. And we shouldn’t have to think it should just be like, like EverPix. What are the rules of EverPix?

⏹️ ▶️ John We grab all your photos as soon as we can and keep them forever. That’s easy to remember.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That being said though, you know, we it’s it’s it’s great. I haven’t actually used yet. Although I’ve heard great

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things They even sponsored the talk show like a year ago or something and I heard that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John then they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John in fireball They didn’t sponsor talk show this wasn’t daring fireball. I thought the same thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t know. Anyway, that’s what like stole my pussy. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think this maybe both anyway, I Think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it’s it’s a great service for the role you just described of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know having everything having instant access to everything from anywhere that’s fantastic that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being said though I still don’t think it’s wise to trust any web service for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco primary storage and backup of your photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John oh no I wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John like it’s like a what’s comes after tertiary

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco whatever comes after tertiary backup yeah I mean that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what it is because I’ve got like you know backups and local backups and have crash plan and this is one more because I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John is it cheaper that I guess it is cheaper $50 for the year or It seemed cheap to me at

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s about what

⏹️ ▶️ John my place costs. Yeah, but it was like unlimited. It was so focused on photos. I like the idea that this would be an extra

⏹️ ▶️ John backup, because I’m willing to spend the extra money, not to back up all of my crap to yet another service, but just

⏹️ ▶️ John like now we’re getting down to brass tacks. Like, what do you really care about, right? Photos, and I don’t think it does

⏹️ ▶️ John any video, but I’ll pay extra to have that. So like I said, when the year’s up, I’ll think about whether I want to do it again, whether

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s earned its value. But I would definitely say, oh, now that I’ve done this, I don’t need to back up my iPhoto library. No,

⏹️ ▶️ John no, definitely not. It’s just you know it’s another backstop against disaster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But but I think a lot of people wouldn’t use it like that like a lot of people use these things as primary

⏹️ ▶️ Marco storage And that’s the only like it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John be better than nothing though Wouldn’t you be glad

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like if someone

⏹️ ▶️ John someone someone who wasn’t doing any backups before and there’s no way you’re gonna be able to Convince them to even use time machine because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s too complicated for whatever you’re like look sign up for the service at least then you feel Like all right at least you have some backstop

⏹️ ▶️ John like that’s your version of crash plan for them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, but you know the problem the problem with photos Because as you said, you care less about a photo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you took one year ago and more about a photo you might have taken ten years ago. I got my first digital camera 13

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years ago. And so I have pictures. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a good number of regularly taken pictures. Not like two or three a year, like in the film days.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I have a good number of pictures being taken from the year 2000 forward.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And back then, I mean, first of all, they looked like crap, because even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco though it was a really nice camera, it was low resolution by today’s standards. I believe it was like 1.3 megapixels or something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it was 2.0. It was very high end, 2.0. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey isn’t that the awful paradox that these ones that you care about from 10 years ago that-

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they look terrible. And you care about them so deeply.

⏹️ ▶️ John Cry me a river. Mine were taken with disc cameras. Remember

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco disc cameras? Nice. Yeah, the floppy disc?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Those were not like… Negative was like the size of my pinky thumb, pinky fingernail.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those are rough. But I still have these in Lightroom. Although

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at some point along the way, I lost full resolution versions of many of them. And so I only have like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thumbnails, I believe, like from Aperture six years ago or something like that. But anyway, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a whole lot of these that I really care a lot about and I would love to keep. And certainly the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco older I get, the more I will want to keep them because they’ll be further away, more distant memories.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But any kind of web service will never satisfy that kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of timescale. The web just doesn’t work that way. I mean, it’s hard enough to keep moving between computers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I don’t know if

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s true, though. Because you’re like, are you saying that no web service will be around that long?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t think that’s a requirement.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m saying it’s very unlikely that a photo storage and backup

⏹️ ▶️ Marco service or feature of a bigger service will generally be around for greater than 10-year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco timescales.

⏹️ ▶️ John But they don’t have to be. They absolutely don’t have to be. All they have to do is have

⏹️ ▶️ John duplicate copies of everything that you have somewhere else. And when they go out of business, it’s on you to find an alternate service

⏹️ ▶️ John to be your backstop. And by then, maybe some other backup service will come. So you’re not expecting a single thing. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like your data. Your data isn’t expected to live on whatever hardware it was created on. You carry it along with

⏹️ ▶️ John you. And as storage increases, you just keep bringing it, copying it from thing to thing. So I envision this

⏹️ ▶️ John having various backup services. And they’re either going to go out of business, refer one to the other or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John I will stop using that one or they will disappear and I will take, because that’s my backup, I will take that data, which

⏹️ ▶️ John I already have a copy of, that’s just one of the many backups, and put it onto another service and let it go out of another service. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that’s a reasonable way, the only way really to bring your data along with you through your life

⏹️ ▶️ John is to constantly move it from service to service, hardware to hardware. So I don’t think you have to worry about like the longevity

⏹️ ▶️ John of the companies except within like, you don’t wanna go for a company that’s gonna go out of business next week because then it was kind of a waste of your time. But

⏹️ ▶️ John other than that, I think I’m comfortable with that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah, but we’re nerds. We’re okay doing that kind of management and redundancy and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John For web services, you don’t think regular people could do that? Like, cause they just sign up and then?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, the problem is, if you’re relying only on a web service, like, you know, let’s say all your photos

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are backed up to Apple’s magical thing. That doesn’t exist. Let’s say it starts existing and all your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco photos are backed up to iCloud. Let’s say in four years, Apple stuff starts to really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suck and you wanna switch to Android, or whatever is existing in four years.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco How do you do that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, you stop using Apple services, but you should still have all of your photos because they were just the backup. That wasn’t the only

⏹️ ▶️ John copy of them that you had. I mean, that’s another place where Google actually excels, is they’re very good about letting you get your crap out.

⏹️ ▶️ John And again, granted, it’s a little bit techie, but at least you can get it. But with the online services, you just discontinue use of those

⏹️ ▶️ John services, discontinue use of those products. And when you set up your new thing, you copy all

⏹️ ▶️ John your old crap onto your new thing. And if the new thing really is better and is smart, they’ll probably have some kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of migration assistant. Like, I think Apple even has a Windows migration assistant to grab your crap off Windows and put

⏹️ ▶️ John it on your Mac so you don’t lose your Excel file that you keep your taxes in or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s, I think it’s just part of the process. And online services, I think, are the easiest to switch up because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s usually just a matter of stop using a website, stop paying the bill, cancel, hopefully, through their website, and

⏹️ ▶️ John sign up for another one in a web form. That’s easier, I think, than transferring your data with a migration assistant

⏹️ ▶️ John when you upgrade from one computer to another. I mean, it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John as easy as it could be. But I think we’re within the realm of possibility. And I would be

⏹️ ▶️ John happy if everyone in my family just used EverPix or something similar. Because even though I know that’s inadequate,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve tried to get them all to use Time Machine. And mounting and unmounting volumes is beyond the realm

⏹️ ▶️ John of normal computers, apparently.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but that’s why you get a time capsule. And it all happens magically through the air, very

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco slowly, but magically.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I can’t imagine time capsules sell that well. Because think about the sales proposition there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Already airport extremes are way more expensive than most wireless routers. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most people now have internet service, if they have broadband at home in the US at least, usually your internet service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco comes with a wireless router. Or they talk you into leasing theirs every month

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they tell you that you need it. And so the market for wireless routers is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco already pretty cheap and commodity oriented. But then Apple comes out with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a $200 router, which of course we have, but nobody else does because everyone else is sane.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you want, you can spend like $400 to get this one with this giant disk inside

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a refrigitoster because like what you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco combining

⏹️ ▶️ John what with what? Like I want a router and I want like something like a network attached storage backup thing. Those

⏹️ ▶️ John both sound like good things, but why would I combine them? And then you’re tying, like, what if you want more storage, but your router is

⏹️ ▶️ John still fine? Or what if you want a new router, but your storage is fine? Like, you’re combining two things that don’t need to be combined

⏹️ ▶️ John and tying them. Yeah, and plus, they had a terrible reputation for reliability. And I still think Time Machine over the network

⏹️ ▶️ John is not great. But I don’t know. I mean, like, conceptually, it sounds good. But

⏹️ ▶️ John realistically speaking, the product wasn’t great. And I think you’re right. I think it’s not that popular, because that’s a tough sell. I guess it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John for, like, rich people who come into the Apple store. And they’re like, oh, well, you know, if you want the really good one, this do your backups

⏹️ ▶️ John automatically. That sounds good to people in the store. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t want to have to worry about backups. I’ll do this. And most normal people would be like, yeah, but $400. But you got a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John of money, you’re like, all right. And then you’ll regret it later.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, but I have to disagree with you guys. Because if you, OK, so I’ll agree with the part that you said, well, if you have a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey extra money. Because yeah, they’re expensive. But let’s say you just got burned, and you just lost a bunch of data. And you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Mac user, and you just want the problem to be solved. What do you do? You find out that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey there’s this thing called Time Machine, and you need an external drive to do it on. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re not a fiddly kind of person, so you don’t want to go to Amazon and get an enclosure, or even get an enclosure with a drive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in it. You just want one box that will solve all of these problems. And whether or not it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually solves these problems, I think to Joe Consumer, that’s maybe just slightly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more, not intelligent, but has the wherewithal to think about backing things up, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think a time capsule is a really good solution for that person. Now granted, technically, it may

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not be the best. It’s very slow. Backing up over the network is kind of crummy. But if you just want

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the problem to go away, you just want to throw a little bit of money at the problem and make it go away, I think it’s a pretty reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey answer.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if Time Machine actually did that, then, not Time Machine, if Time Capsule did that, maybe you’d have a point. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I still think the price would be a big barrier there. Like, I think it’s easier. I think at this point, it’s easier to sell people on spending a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit extra for the iCloud backup than it would be for them to play out ahead of time. Even though the iCloud backup could end up costing

⏹️ ▶️ John them more for the long haul or whatever. That’s not how people think. But the product just doesn’t do what they say it’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to do. It does not solve your problems. It lets you experience the joy

⏹️ ▶️ John of hearing questions of, that thing on my menu bar is always spinning. Is there a reason for that? When does it say

⏹️ ▶️ John your last backup was? Like six months ago? You know, like, oh, time capsule, yay. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not. Like, it didn’t. If it had actually pulled it off, like, if it worked

⏹️ ▶️ John reliably, and eventually we’ll talk about NAS stuff. But like, the transporter, which I

⏹️ ▶️ John have now I’ve been using like that works the way you expect it to work it works

⏹️ ▶️ John as advertised whereas the time capsule it’s like the whole thing is I’m gonna do time machine backups to it and it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not really the time capsule harbors fault probably but many things conspire

⏹️ ▶️ John to make network time machine backups and time machine in general less efficient and good and potentially

⏹️ ▶️ John have the potential to get wedged my new thing is that now in time machine deals so poorly with when

⏹️ ▶️ John the disk fills up it’s such a bad judge of how much room it’s going to need. Now I’m just sitting there with TMU

⏹️ ▶️ John till manually deleting old backups because it can’t figure out like it takes like days to figure out look just delete

⏹️ ▶️ John half the backups and you’re not gonna make it like it tries again and again it goes all the way through hits

⏹️ ▶️ John the limit fills the disc starts over again goes all the way through its limit it just takes hours and hours for it to figure out

⏹️ ▶️ John that oh I didn’t make enough free space I know you didn’t so there am TMU till deleting

⏹️ ▶️ John all day long so I can finally get enough free space to make a complete back

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now that is absolutely painful you’re absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean whenever I’ve like I haven’t actually had the the new my signology set up I haven’t had it fill up yet because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s it’s a giant disk in there but when that does fill up like historically what I’ve done whenever my time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco machine fills up is I just format the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John partition wipe and start over I do I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just delete the partition because it’s way faster than deleting all the Files just repartition the disk and start over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you know if if I lose data during that time I have backblaze

⏹️ ▶️ John is. Yeah, but it’s Time Machine does do OK with small incremental

⏹️ ▶️ John backups. But if you use VMware at all, which this happens at work all the time, any modification to

⏹️ ▶️ John a couple of my big VMs, and it’s like, oh, I got another 3 gigabytes to back up, because you just touch lots of pages

⏹️ ▶️ John on these little 2 gigabyte Stripe files that VMware writes out. And you just see Time Machine going, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you are not going to make enough free space for that. I don’t know why you’re not going to, but you are not going to. And so sure enough, it

⏹️ ▶️ John says, oh, backup failed. Then I manually delete. But small backups like 50 megs, 100 megs, it can

⏹️ ▶️ John make it through. It’s the big ones where it loses track of stuff. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John lots of technical reasons. So a file time machine, the way it does everything is inefficient and crappy.

⏹️ ▶️ John And like when it first came out, they’re like, oh, give them a chance. They’re doing it whole files at a time, and really inefficient, and the crazy

⏹️ ▶️ John hard link thing. But I’m sure they’ll enhance it over the years. Nope, not really.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, something that is actually being enhanced over time and actually works is

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, you are the king of not trusting any of your stuff to anyone else. the fact that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and we have trusted both of our podcast websites to Squarespace should be enough. You shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey need any other ad read than that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco That’s all you need to know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not going to sit here and tell you that you should host every website that you will ever make in your life on Squarespace.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s all about priorities and needs and values. The fact is, I would not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have any provider of any blog platform be the only place

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where all the photos of my kid live. That’s just not what these things are supposed to do. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’m launching something and I don’t have time to make a whole new

⏹️ ▶️ Marco site, code a whole CMS or install somebody else’s and keep it updated and all that stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Or it’s not part of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco value add. Exactly. And for most people, for most sites that exist,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t need to be on anything custom. They don’t need to be coded from scratch. They don’t need to be having

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their own installation of WordPress that somebody has to maintain. There are so many site types

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out there. I wish every restaurant that I ever searched for would just have their site on Squarespace

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they all have these crappy custom-built flash sites from 10 years ago that don’t work on any mobile devices these days. And you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out somewhere, you went in front of a restaurant, yeah, it’s a disaster. There’s so many categories like that. My

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wife is trying out Squarespace for her photography site. There’s all sorts of categories where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just does not make sense. Even if you could make it yourself, it doesn’t make sense to hand code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every single thing from scratch.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because no one’s going to say, well, I was going to listen to that podcast, but this podcast does their website by hand. Like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t even tell. And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the odds

⏹️ ▶️ John are, the odds that you’re, especially for most people, the odds that you’re going to hand roll a website that looks and works better than the Squarespace

⏹️ ▶️ John one are slim.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And also, have you seen other podcast websites? They’re usually pretty bad. I mean, Dan built something good at 5x5,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but a lot of the other podcast sites out there are

⏹️ ▶️ John terrible. It’s not a core part of the podcast experience. People just, like, they arrive on their phone or whatever. Like, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John how it works. And we have to have a website. It has to be there. And that’s what the RSS gets. like there’s reasons for it but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not it’s like is that where you want to spend your time and the answer is you know i’d rather i’d rather delegate that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exactly all right anyway um what’s what’s next on our topic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco list because i have a few things i could bring up but we have such a long list might as well get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John why don’t you look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the

⏹️ ▶️ John file like the rest of us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why you shun the file i was busy reading our squarespace ad tab

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah anyway uh

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey what are we children

⏹️ ▶️ Casey children i think the first item we should probably save for last. That makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna be good.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah that is gonna be good. Alright so what else do you guys want to talk about? I don’t know. Do you want to talk

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about if this than that in Twitter?

⏹️ ▶️ John I read that article and the only thing I could come up with was to tease Panzer about something he wrote but…

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh please

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do! Friend of the show, Matthew Panzerino.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, writing for TechCrunch now.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did he leave the next web

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco or is he writing for both? Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he left the next web and got quite promotion a tech crunch actually.

⏹️ ▶️ John All right. Well, anyway, he did write that They didn’t jive a J I V

⏹️ ▶️ John E with the new tweet display rules. And so I want to shame him for that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a jibe, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, I just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just stay away from those words because I’m like I it’s like whom you know And yes, we know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Don’t even get me started on that. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco everyone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said in case you the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey oatmeal

⏹️ ▶️ Casey God every Every person on all of the internet has sent me that link, and I appreciate

⏹️ ▶️ Casey every one of you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John for sending me that link. Okay, so

⏹️ ▶️ John this is part of being, you know, F-list famous, or whatever we want to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco say we are.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, you have to, that angry feeling you’re getting, you have to

⏹️ ▶️ John use the rational part of your brain to wrangle that, because each person who’s sending it to you doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know about all the other

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey people who

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco send it to you.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not reasonable to ask them, please, before you send me anything,

⏹️ ▶️ John check my replies to make sure 800 people also haven’t sent. People are still sending me that

⏹️ ▶️ John pop art culture, whatever, poster you can buy of all the video game controllers.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still get that every week. Your inclination as

⏹️ ▶️ John a lizard brain hairless ape is to be like, stop sending me these things I know. Don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John you know I know? the human part of your brain should be. No, they don’t know you know, nor should they

⏹️ ▶️ John have to know you know. They’re just trying to do something nice for you, so don’t get frustrated.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey So

⏹️ ▶️ John when you can actually not be frustrated, like phase one is like being frustrated. Phase two is realizing you shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John be frustrating and tamping it down. And phase three is actually not getting frustrated. So I’m rooting for you to break through, Casey.

⏹️ ▶️ John This

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is like training wheels for you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It is nice because, you know, it is nice to know that people think of me and that it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey amazes me that anyone thinks that I exist outside of the hour or two that they listen to this podcast. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that being said, I got a million copies of it. And I was like, my goodness, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ John One thing you can do, though, because you do know that we’re getting it, is not CC us on them in your replies to those

⏹️ ▶️ John people. Like when you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey reply to them to say something,

⏹️ ▶️ John you don’t have to include me in a Marco, because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey you actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do know that we’re getting it. I actually usually don’t. Sometimes I do. But usually I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t. I used to do it a lot when we’ve, this is terrible. We should talk about something else. But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey all right.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, before we leave that, the other thing about this is the first person who sends it to you

⏹️ ▶️ John actually is providing a service because before the first person sent it to you, you hadn’t seen it. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John you had and every other person is doing exactly the same thing as that first person did. So the gratitude that you should

⏹️ ▶️ John you feel for that first person should extend to all those people because any one of them could have been the first person and if no

⏹️ ▶️ John one sent it to you, you would be living a life not having seen that oatmeal comic unless you read them every day, which I assume you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, I do follow the oatmeal on Twitter, which was the worst part of all is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I see this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link fly by and I’m like, oh crap, I know what’s up. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I’m getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like at replies from the entire internet. I do appreciate it. It was funny and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John it still does. Did it help

⏹️ ▶️ John you learn or no?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, the funny thing is, is somebody had said to me a while ago, here’s what you do. And this was via Twitter and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I apologize to, to whomever you are.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, I think that’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I apologize to whomever that is, but they said, you know, just substitute either he or him and figure it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out. If it’s he, it’s who, and if it’s him, it’s whom.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John This is not a new thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey been teaching

⏹️ ▶️ John that in elementary schools for a hundred years.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, exactly. I don’t remember what you were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John asking. Did

⏹️ ▶️ John it actually help you?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Like many

⏹️ ▶️ John oatmeal things, it’s kind of a humorous rehash of things that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco people

⏹️ ▶️ John have seen

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco before.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s all about the presentation and delivery. People crap on the oatmeal for that because it’s like, oh, all you’re doing

⏹️ ▶️ John is gathering humorous things from the internet and packaging up in an attractive form

⏹️ ▶️ John in a single place. Yeah, that’s called entertainment. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get all the oatmeal hate. He gets so much crap, and he seems like he’s a really nice guy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s totally what it

⏹️ ▶️ John is, because his mistake was being honest about, look, I find things

⏹️ ▶️ John that are funny on the internet and synthesize a single funny thing

⏹️ ▶️ John out of them that hopefully is greater than the sum of its part, and people say, I’ve seen that before, Or that’s a derivative which

⏹️ ▶️ John is ridiculous because that’s what all art is he was just he was just more honest about it And that freaks

⏹️ ▶️ John people out

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco so well and also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he is really funny like I love his stuff I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco his picture about or his his poster about dogs I have it on my bathroom wall like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s I love his art. I love his style I love his humor like I think he’s really funny, and he gets he gets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an amazing amount of crap for people I really don’t get it

⏹️ ▶️ John well humorous objective like here’s someone you know Someone in the chat room is saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John the funniest thing about the oatmeal is that it exists, but it’s not funny. Well, if you don’t find it funny, you don’t find it funny. Humor is subjective. I think

⏹️ ▶️ John the guy can be obnoxious, and if obnoxious humor is annoying, and if you don’t find it funny, if you don’t find the art

⏹️ ▶️ John style funny, you don’t have to like it. But you’re right, he gets a lot of crap. I think he

⏹️ ▶️ John gets a lot of crap because he’s honest about how he makes things, and it seems like low

⏹️ ▶️ John class. He seems fine with it, but people are like, no, I want you to do things, be

⏹️ ▶️ John inspired, and completely original and not derivative in any way and not tell me the crass

⏹️ ▶️ John commercialism that enters into your calculus. That’s how he makes his living. That’s part of being good at what he does, and

⏹️ ▶️ John he’s good at it. So like it or don’t, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey there it is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So there’s two funny things that come out of what you guys just said. Firstly, with regard to the oatmeal,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am the king of sending the there versus there comic to people, because

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that drives me nuts when people confuse T-H-E-Y apostrophe R-E with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey T-H-E-I-R and T-H-E-R-E, and that drives me insane. And so I’ve been sending these links to people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forever. And so really, I deserve every one of these links and all the links that will come after I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John made that statement. Do

⏹️ ▶️ John you converse with elementary school children a lot? Who’s messing up there, there, and there?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, you have no idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I don’t want to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco know. Don’t tell me. Have you ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John read an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco email from anybody?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, exactly. I only converse with people of impeccable grammar, apparently.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John What about the itses?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the itses.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t blame people for anymore in the age of autocorrect, because the frigging autocorrect will always pick the wrong one.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And you won’t notice. It’s a great

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco excuse. You’ll still send it. I mean, and the thing is, even my fingers, my

⏹️ ▶️ John fingers type the wrong ones all the time, right? And I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco totally know the difference. No, it happens. The controller’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco broken. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John why it died. No, no, no.

⏹️ ▶️ John My fingers type the wrong one. And I totally know the right one. I never had any confusion about it. I don’t know why I never

⏹️ ▶️ John had any confusion. I probably learned the rule when I was in third grade and then just never forgot it. Never any confusion. And yet, they come out

⏹️ ▶️ John of your fingers like that. But there, there, and there, those are spelled entirely different. It’s not like one key’s difference.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey worst. And your and your. But anyway, the other thing I wanted to say is, with regard to Marco having the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey poster, pro tip, if you ever happen to be in the Armand household, go to the bathrooms, because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where the best art is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Well, yeah, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tiff won’t let me keep a lot of the best art in general-purpose rooms, so I can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John hide

⏹️ ▶️ John it in the bathrooms. So you get the bathroom. Yeah. That sounds like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a raw

⏹️ ▶️ John deal. Oh, goodness. You should get the computer room. Why don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco why why isn’t that the way actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do but unfortunately I’ve filled up the walls in the computer room And so I have to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John expose your overflow gallery. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty much. I have to expand into the bathroom

⏹️ ▶️ John so to speak We don’t call it overflow gallery in the bathroom,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh my god All right, so do we have anything to say about if this and that in Twitter? I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t even I totally missed that story.

⏹️ ▶️ John I read the article. I didn’t think there was anything there you tell me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just thought it was interesting that they’re there as I phrased it in the show notes sitting in a tree K I s a scient G

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just in that that Twitter is allowing or in worked with if this and that even more than just allowing it they worked

⏹️ ▶️ Casey together In order to get the to get that integration back in and I thought that was kind of cool

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in a positive step

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s only a story if you think this is part of a turnaround at Twitter, and I do not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know that’s very fair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would also say not I mean if this than that they have funding and everything right and they have a staff right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco isn’t that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey think so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So the fact is, like, you know, Twitter will give API access to partners.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so if you’re willing to devote enough time and money into, like, courting them with salespeople

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and relations and everything else, you can become a partner. And so, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not that surprising that a company with funding and a staff was able to convince Twitter to give them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco API access. And especially since they’re really not in any way competitive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with Twitter, and they don’t look like they ever will be competitive with Twitter. Facebook being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cut off from their products from interacting with Twitter and vice versa, that’s because Twitter’s afraid of the competition

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and of boosting some of the social network or some of the social network coming in and stealing all the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco following relationships away from Twitter and all the traffic and everything. If this and that is not really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a threat at all, they’re big enough that Twitter can make a deal with them,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they’re small enough and narrow enough and scope of what they do, that they’re really never going to be a threat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s very, very clear. They’re not looking to take over and replace Twitter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it doesn’t surprise me that they were able to make a deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do we want to talk about the gold iPhone that’s not gold? Champagne.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Is there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything to say about that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why is it not gold?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s champagne. It’s champagne.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m keeping up on the rumors. Did someone rumor that that is what they’re going to call the color, or

⏹️ ▶️ John are people just saying that as a backlash against the really, really gold-looking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhones? saying as a description of what the color is.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is there any doubt that Apple would call it gold instead of champagne? If they make a phone that’s a goldish

⏹️ ▶️ John color, they’re gonna call it gold.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco They don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John do the thing of calling it midnight mist.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Really? Because the one in my

⏹️ ▶️ John pocket is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco called slate or something, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that’s reasonable. But if it’s gold, it’s gonna be gold. I mean, the iPod mini was gold. They called it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey gold. That’s what I was gonna ask. I

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like if it’s gold, they’ll call it gold. The other thing that I was expecting is, you know, what

⏹️ ▶️ John was the… you guys won’t know this, but the PowerBook G3 with the

⏹️ ▶️ John bronze keyboard, or was it a G3? Anyway, it was a PowerBook with a bronze keyboard. And bronze

⏹️ ▶️ John perfectly fits with the description of that color too, so maybe they could call it bronze. But gold, bronze, yellowish,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever, they’ve made uglier devices before. Dipods came in

⏹️ ▶️ John lime green and pink and this terrible teal and pastels, and gold is

⏹️ ▶️ John not outside the realm of something that Apple would make. If they make it, good for them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, even the iPod Touch has come in pretty terrible colors. I would say the current

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yellowish green, whatever that yellow green puke color is for the iPod Touch, that’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco terrible color. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John hideous, but they make it and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they sell it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, exactly, people like it. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously all the rumors are pointing pretty solidly to this iPhone 5C

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having this plastic back and being cheap and coming in all these iOS 7 palette colors,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or at least three or four of them. And that looks pretty likely, and that makes a lot of sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John They just need to name it after a hipster beer and it will sell like hotcakes. Right. It’s like, find some

⏹️ ▶️ John beer that’s the same shade, I don’t know enough about beers, maybe Marco, but find some beer that is the same color as this phone is, and

⏹️ ▶️ John there you go, call it that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The funny thing is, they get so much crap, every phone that’s come out pretty much since the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone 4, they’ve gotten so much crap it not being different enough, not being new enough, not being innovative,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all that crap, mostly for superficial reasons. Mostly because they didn’t change the case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or even when the iPhone 5 came out, which was a massive change, people say, well, it looks kind of similar. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a rectangle with a screen on it. They get so much crap for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think now that they’re going to have what appears to be two different models, with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one model being totally new exterior-wise, and the other model being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same quote as the iPhone 5, but having new guts, new camera probably, new faster

⏹️ ▶️ Marco CPU probably, and having this extra color that’s radically different looking from the other two.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think people will be very happy with this release. I think they’ll actually say, wow, finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we got new stuff. And then iOS 7 also looks very new in the software. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think this is an overall massive reactionary storm that’s going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all hit at once in response to the last three or four years of everyone saying Apple wasn’t innovating at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we talked to several shows back about, like, if they could have an iPhone 6 with the new form factor, boy, that would

⏹️ ▶️ John really just bring it home. But, you know, they probably wouldn’t because they’re probably going to do a

⏹️ ▶️ John 5S. And that seems like, I mean, they got to do what they got to do. You know, you can’t just magically say, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you know, it would also be great if we had a brand new iPhone 6. Well, there seems like they’re not going to unless they really, really surprise

⏹️ ▶️ John us. But I what they have rumored, if all those rumor things are true, that is totally adequate.

⏹️ ▶️ John More than adequate.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now what do you think, you know, my statement on Twitter a couple of days back was that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, it looks, because right now, iPhones we can predict pretty well in advance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these days because the supply chain to make enough iPhones to satisfy the demand for them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is so huge and gears up so far ahead of time that it’s almost inevitable that the supply

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chain will leak in the month leading up to a new iPhone. So that’s why, like, that’s That’s why we’ve seen pretty much the entire

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone 5C already. We’ve seen the back shell for the iPhone 5S and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who knows, we probably wouldn’t even recognize any difference at the front. So it’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obvious now what we’re getting and what we’re not getting. And so it is pretty obvious that there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not going to be a quote iPhone 6 or anything beyond what we see as the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 5C and what we see as the 5S online. And so I tweeted a few days ago that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it appears pretty clear now that we’re not going to get a larger screened iPhone this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year. And I think that’s a mistake. What do you guys think about that?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think if they could have made a bigger phone this year, they would have, but they can’t. I mean, when we talked about their bigger phone, we’re like,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve got to do it. It’s going to happen. But we were like, oh, but can they pull it off this year? And that’s when we started talking about the iPhone 6 and

⏹️ ▶️ John different form factors. But like, they can’t do it. Like the 5C

⏹️ ▶️ John rumor thing is their new form factor for this year. probably been planning a long time. Doesn’t seem like they had

⏹️ ▶️ John a larger phone in the pipeline for now. But I’m not as down on them as it being a mistake

⏹️ ▶️ John as you are, because I think they can last one more holiday season, but just barely. It would be better if it

⏹️ ▶️ John was out now. I think they’ll survive as it is. I bet they wish they

⏹️ ▶️ John could have it out sooner, too. I know some people are giving you crap on Twitter, like, oh, Mark, we’re talking about it. I mean, the people who don’t listen

⏹️ ▶️ John to our podcast, because they think you’re saying they’re going to have one of those ridiculous, gigantic,

⏹️ ▶️ John holding up a lunch tray to your head things. Like we’re talking about a slightly larger

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone. Not even, you know, not, but like, you need the context.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, maybe four

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and a half inches,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco right? Or maybe not even that big.

⏹️ ▶️ John You need the context of all those shows that we talked about this to understand that we’re not saying that Apple’s gonna make

⏹️ ▶️ John a giant phone. Without that context, your tweet might seem silly. But like, we’re talking about the, Apple needs to make a bigger

⏹️ ▶️ John one. It’s not gonna be massively bigger. They need it sooner rather than later. I think they’ll survive without it.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I bet they’re disappointed too. I bet they’re disappointed that they can’t have a larger one right

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the fact is they are definitely losing sales to people who buy Android phones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Primarily not necessarily only but primarily because of the bigger screens. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know I feel I have me says you’re right half me says you guys are wrong Firstly as someone who has

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a 4s I would kill to have the five form factor Any day now because I’m too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cheap to get a new phone every year.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You don’t have to kill

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey someone for it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a lot cheaper than that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fair enough All right, so I guess I’ll just have to save my pennies, but no, you know what I mean? And I’m really excited

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to have even if it looks exactly like what you get what you have Marco And it’s just a little bit quicker.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m very very very excited for that now to be fair either There’s no chance. I’m gonna buy an Android phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this year I also think that you’re right that a lot of people do buy Android phones and I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey heard some people with iPhones on various degrees of the nerd scale say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I might not go iPhone this year because I really want something with a bigger screen And so I think you’re right about that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I also think that a lot of the reason people buy Android phones is because oftentimes they’re cheaper, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up front You know instead of paying 100 200 300 dollars or whatever it is these days for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a brand new iPhone and granted This is where the 5c comes in and so on and so forth in theory But a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of people today will buy Android phones because simply because they’re cheaper

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, we talked about that just a couple of shows back as well. Like, what if the cheaper iPhone is also

⏹️ ▶️ John the bigger one? That seems like that’s not going to be the case. And we

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco said

⏹️ ▶️ John that if that was the case, that would be awkward because it’s like, well, if you want the bigger phone, you got to get the slower one. And like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it turns out that’s not going to be an issue. And you know, the bigger, the slightly, ever so slightly,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, it’s like not much bigger because like the iPhone 5 is kind of awkwardly dimensioned

⏹️ ▶️ John because they basically just made it taller, which is a really weird way, if you think about it, to ever expand. Like, can you think

⏹️ ▶️ John of any other device with a screen where the screen expanded in only one dimension in a significant amount?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s really weird. So like, it’s very tall and very skinny. And it’s just like, could you just make that a little bit wider

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe? Or just maybe a little bit bigger? And again, not going to be the only phone they offer. People who want smaller ones will

⏹️ ▶️ John have smaller ones, I think. They will, you know, but like, slightly bigger would really help. I

⏹️ ▶️ John agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And, you know, a couple of things we’re not considering, both with the gold iPhone and the size is that we’re taking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an extremely American-centric, myopic view of the world. And I wonder if, like I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey heard a lot of reports that the gold or champagne color is very popular in China. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no earthly idea if that’s true or not. Please email anyone but me. But I’ve heard a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that. Someone in the chat room said a second ago that, you know, a lot of people in Asia will buy specifically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey around screen size. I don’t know if that’s factual or not, but… Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you can just

⏹️ ▶️ John look at Samsung sales numbers. They sell a lot of phones and they sell a lot of phones with really big screens and

⏹️ ▶️ John people are not like Grudgingly taking the big screens they like them they want them and you can complain whether like

⏹️ ▶️ John they should like them or not or whether It’s too big and phone shouldn’t be that big and Apple should take some sort of principal stand

⏹️ ▶️ John People want it like an Apple. I guess that Apple I don’t think is going to make something comically large You’re just gonna go

⏹️ ▶️ John a little bit bigger because people want a little bit bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’d buy it Yeah, especially, you know, you figure if they made a little bit bigger they would have room for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot more battery volume. And sure, the screen would take up more power because it would be a larger area. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I bet it would not take up, I bet it wouldn’t totally cancel out the battery increase.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I bet if they made a larger phone, it would have overall better battery life than the current five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size models.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did you see that one guy who was tweeting about the internal changes to the iPhone, changes to the bus and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like that? Yeah, saying apparently the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco PCI Express bus might come next year too, which would be awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and what I’ve said to the thing was that self-refresh is coming, which is a feature, not that they’re going to be Intel-based,

⏹️ ▶️ John but the Haswell chipsets. Basically, so that the video hardware doesn’t constantly have to tell the

⏹️ ▶️ John screen, keep displaying that. No, keep displaying that. Yep, same thing. Keep displaying that. Oh.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Instead,

⏹️ ▶️ John the screen can sit there and not keep getting signals from the graphics hardware

⏹️ ▶️ John unless the picture is changing, which is a big power saving thing. Sure. So that’s come. I don’t even know if it’s in the new MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Airs, but it’s part of Intel’s push with their Haswell chipsets for PC hardware. And it makes perfect sense to

⏹️ ▶️ John do in a phone. Anywhere you can get power savings. So maybe that’s part of that. But yeah, the changing of

⏹️ ▶️ John all the internal buses, I think this is probably where the lightning connectors design will pay off, because I’m assuming Apple built it

⏹️ ▶️ John so that when they do change all the internal buses, they won’t have to have a new connector, or

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s disengaged and isolated from the internals to enough of a degree that they should

⏹️ ▶️ John be okay with lightning connector. I’m hoping that that was their plan all along, and now we’re seeing their plan come together.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because the lightning connector, It has enough pins that if you fudge

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the spec a little bit on grounding, I believe you can have a full USB 3 speed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out of it at least. I believe you can just make a USB 3 lightning cable and it pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco could work. And so obviously, they made this thing. They didn’t just make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this thing to last two years. Obviously, they made it to last a while.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s why

⏹️ ▶️ John the little adapter has that crazy chip in it that’s running the little tiny embedded

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco OS.

⏹️ ▶️ John The reason they did that is because, look, the old way was we just hooked up the connector directly to some

⏹️ ▶️ John hardware that outputted the video signal. But that ties us to, oh, we have to continue to output that. We really need to just

⏹️ ▶️ John totally isolate this bus from the rest of the thing. And yeah, maybe that’ll make it

⏹️ ▶️ John so our adapters have to be weird and stuff. But now we’re not tied to the internal implementation. So that’s the price they’re paying. And

⏹️ ▶️ John this is supposedly going to be the payoff of, like, we don’t have to change the connector. We don’t have to bend over backwards to keep

⏹️ ▶️ John adding things to be sending out signals and all those pins because that’s what the old

⏹️ ▶️ John one did. You know, we’ve pushed that responsibility upwards into the phone and the software and downwards into the adapter and then this

⏹️ ▶️ John can just be a nice connector to send the signals through.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Speaking of sending things out of your phone and into it, our second sponsor… I gotta figure something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Look at you segwaying today!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re very good!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe, alright. It depends on how you define that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Anyways,

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco prefers if the host can come up with a pick, a recommendation of maybe a good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco book or audiobook that you’ve read slash listened to recently. Do you guys have any picks for that?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do, but John, would you like to go?

⏹️ ▶️ John I have a pick as well. Do you want to save my pick for the next time or do you want to do both of them?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tough. All right, Casey, go ahead. We’ll save John’s.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So a couple weeks ago when we were in the midst of our crazy recording schedule,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I went to the beach for a few days and I read the book Ready Player One on Faith and Jason’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recommendation from a while back now. And I checked and not only does Audible have the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey audiobook version of Ready Player One, which by the way is an excellent very quick read, but they have the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one done by Will Wheaton, which I have not heard but I have heard through the grapevine is absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey incredible and so I definitely recommend that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Great! All right, well thanks a lot once again to Audible. Go to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash ATP to get a free audiobook with a 30-day trial. Thanks a lot to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Audible. All right, so I want to talk about this whole fingerprint scanner

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home button thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, no, I think it’s time for John to get angry.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s a good idea. That’s way more interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ John Am I gonna get angry about your recommendation of Redder Player One? I just pasted into the chat room our incomparable episode about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John We did not like it as much as you did.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Really? I loved it. Fine, I’ll have to listen. We can argue about that another

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time. But speaking of you being angry about things, how do you like the new TiVo?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I actually had an opportunity to review the new TiVo. I could have

⏹️ ▶️ John had it and I sweaty little pause and play with it, but I don’t have time to do that for obvious

⏹️ ▶️ John reasons. So I have not even seen this thing in person, used it, done anything with it at all, because I don’t have time for

⏹️ ▶️ John it. But in the messaging for it,

⏹️ ▶️ John I was glad to see that one of the items, one of like the three items they were marketing, was that it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John faster. Which is like, whether or not it’s really faster, and at this point I have

⏹️ ▶️ John hard time actually believing that it’s actually going to be faster in the ways that I want it to be, or

⏹️ ▶️ John if it is faster it will be like slightly less embarrassingly slow. At

⏹️ ▶️ John least, at least they have figured out that this is a problem that we have to address and that we can’t just not

⏹️ ▶️ John say anything about it. We’re going to say here’s the new TiVo, it’s got X, it’s got Y,

⏹️ ▶️ John and the interface is faster. So I applaud them for that because they have this thing, they do like surveys of their

⏹️ ▶️ John you know of their customers, I forget what they call it, they have some name for it or whatever, like a customer

⏹️ ▶️ John service server. Anyway, they ask you questions and you answer like demographic stuff that they sell to advertisers

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff, but also you get a chance to say like, what features would you like to see in the next TiVo? And do you have any general comments?

⏹️ ▶️ John And I actually answer these surveys every month, like, you know, a dutiful little customer filling out the little

⏹️ ▶️ John boxes for all the movies I’m not gonna see in theaters, because I have kids. And when I get to the end part, I always say,

⏹️ ▶️ John please make your user interface faster, please. Like every, I should just save it as a text expander snippet

⏹️ ▶️ John or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco something.

⏹️ ▶️ John like, please, for the love of God, make your user interface faster. And so

⏹️ ▶️ John whether or not they have done it, they have acknowledged that this is a problem and released this thing here. I was saying to

⏹️ ▶️ John Lex the other day that he should get TiVo to sponsor the show. And I think a lot of people think that I hate TiVo,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that because I have all these rants about it on old episodes of Hypercritical and everything. But

⏹️ ▶️ John I feel like someone who’s a real Hypercritical fan and who actually listened to that episode knows that it’s certainly not the case.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because despite all my yelling and screaming about TiVo, What I always say again and again, and I’ll say it here again on this show,

⏹️ ▶️ John is it is the best DVR you can buy. I have them all over my house, I could not live without them, if

⏹️ ▶️ John someone took away my TiVo I would be very upset. Is it as good as it could be? No, and that’s why I yell and scream about it,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it’s kind of like Apple, like, you know, it’s the first DVR worth criticizing. Like, I’ve been a TiVo user

⏹️ ▶️ John for ages, and so I think them sponsoring the show would not be crazy, and this new TiVo

⏹️ ▶️ John looks to be the best TiVo they’ve made in a long time. Is it as responsive as the TiVo Series 2?

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. I tried it, I can’t say one way or the other, but at the very least they understand, hey, the responsiveness

⏹️ ▶️ John of our UI is an issue, we should address that. I’m disheartened to see

⏹️ ▶️ John all the other features that they’re advertising, because, you know, like, oh, now you can stream to iOS, and

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s got this thing built in, it’s got six tuners instead of four on the high-end model, and all that stuff, it’s like, no, no, no, guys.

⏹️ ▶️ John Don’t worry about that stuff. Just constantly, like, regroup. You need to have, like, a Snow Leopard release. Internals

⏹️ ▶️ John only, get rid of the standard definition menus everywhere, make the thing blazing fast, then the next

⏹️ ▶️ John release add, like, oh, we have new features. Because, like, all those little, you know, we can do Amazon, we can do Netflix,

⏹️ ▶️ John we can do Hulu, we can do this, we can do searching across all, like, I know those are not going to be as good as

⏹️ ▶️ John I would want them to be, and, like, at this point, I, like, ignore the Netflix feature on my TiVo, because in

⏹️ ▶️ John the competition among all the boxes connected to my TV that can do Netflix, TiVo’s, like, in last place.

⏹️ ▶️ John Maybe maybe it’s ahead of the blu-ray player, and you know Apple TV is my number one silent

⏹️ ▶️ John no fan Responsive interface actually works with Netflix like so I understand the Tivo has

⏹️ ▶️ John to advertise all those fancy features But that’s not what I want out of Tivo and if I was telling someone why why they should

⏹️ ▶️ John buy Tivo I would say to record programs and watch them later like that and

⏹️ ▶️ John it does that amazingly well, and it’s reliable and it doesn’t crash and and

⏹️ ▶️ John you just want it to record the programs and have you watch them later. And in that job, that indispensable job

⏹️ ▶️ John that my household could not function without, TiVo does it. And everything else about it,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not as interested in as those key features. So I look forward to trying this out.

⏹️ ▶️ John I did think about like, maybe I’ll get rid of my existing TiVo as like kind of like a gift to myself this Christmas or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John It would not be economically wise because I just bought this TiVo like two years ago. It’s not even a warranty yet

⏹️ ▶️ John because I bought like the extended three-year warranty. I bought lifetime service for it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey People buy that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. All the past TiVos I’ve had, lifetime service has

⏹️ ▶️ John been a good deal. I’ve had them and used them far past the point where lifetime service. I would have been paying

⏹️ ▶️ John way more if I had paid monthly or yearly than the lifetime service. But if I was to get rid of my current TiVo now,

⏹️ ▶️ John which was the previous top-end TiVo, it would not be economically wise to have paid

⏹️ ▶️ John for lifetime service two years ago and then ditch it. And you can’t transfer the lifetime service to the thing. Tivo’s

⏹️ ▶️ John expensive, like, there’s no two ways about it. And I don’t complain too much about the expense, because I’ve always said,

⏹️ ▶️ John make a $1,500 box. Just make it fast. I’ll buy it, right? And this is like $600 plus $400 for the lifetime service.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, it’s expensive. I don’t know how much. It probably would come out to be

⏹️ ▶️ John under $1,000. But I’d be willing to pay a huge amount of money for this, because it’s that important to, like, you know, like, my

⏹️ ▶️ John life and the functioning of my house. But I can’t really. It’s like, you just bought a Tivo.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I’d rather, I think I’d rather spend that money on a PlayStation 4. So that’s probably how that’s going to go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m very disappointed that you’re not absolutely infuriated that some of the screens, the user interface screens, are apparently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still standard def.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you know how long I’ve been living with that inside? What I’ve heard from various people is that the

⏹️ ▶️ John actual application that’s running TiVo that records

⏹️ ▶️ John all the shows and everything is standard def. And all the high definition menus are just like one of those extra

⏹️ ▶️ John applications that you launch from the real application that’s running TiVo. So the high definition menus

⏹️ ▶️ John are, you know, that’s one more layer up. Right. So as soon as you exit out of the high definition menus, then

⏹️ ▶️ John you see the real interface underneath it. And if it were you to exit out of that, then you just, you know, the thing wouldn’t be recording stuff anymore. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know how accurate that is in terms of their stack, but like, that’s why the high def, you know, the standard def menus

⏹️ ▶️ John there, because that’s the actual underlying machine. And I can kind of understand. You know

⏹️ ▶️ John why that didn’t go away immediately because you don’t want to screw with the reliability, but now it’s been like how many years of television

⏹️ ▶️ John has been high def. It’s just embarrassing. Like maybe they don’t, maybe there’s some deep technical reason why they can’t get rid of it or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like if I had to choose, uh, Crashy and screws up my recordings, but it has all high def menus

⏹️ ▶️ John versus the current situation. I would choose the current one. I just think it’s embarrassing for them technically that they haven’t been able to get rid of these.

⏹️ ▶️ John But if forced to choose, I would say, look, if something, if you feel like you don’t have the technical chops

⏹️ ▶️ John to ditch the underlying thing, that’s recording all this stuff and has the standard def menus, because you’re afraid of instability.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m willing to believe that you, that your assessment of your competency is accurate. And I prefer

⏹️ ▶️ John to have like, because my TiVo, there was times where they’ve been a little bit crashy and like, you know, many years ago,

⏹️ ▶️ John this thing has not spontaneously rebooted, has not crashed, has been like a champ against, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John MPEG artifacts and stuff and things that record. It records four shows all the time. It’s really quiet.

⏹️ ▶️ John It just works and does what it’s supposed to do. And even though I, you know, I grit my

⏹️ ▶️ John teeth and think how insane it is that I can’t scroll through the menus, and it’s like down,

⏹️ ▶️ John wait for reaction, wait for reaction. moved down waiver you know it’s like that infuriates

⏹️ ▶️ John me but in sort of like you know maslow’s hierarchy of needs like are the shows recorded yes

⏹️ ▶️ John can i watch them yes can i navigate them too quickly no but you know i’ve got like

⏹️ ▶️ John food shelter safety that’s about the level we’re at so i i would if anyone

⏹️ ▶️ John wants a dvr uh i have again i haven’t read reviews of this yet except like the verge preview thing people

⏹️ ▶️ John are just getting them now uh i would I would say wait for the reviews and if they say it’s a good deal, you should get one.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m very happy with the TiVos I have and like I said, if you took them away from me, I would be pissed because what’s my alternative? A cable

⏹️ ▶️ John company DVR? No thank you. I’ve used many of those over relatives’ houses and they are

⏹️ ▶️ John so much worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so with that in mind, I am genuinely not trolling you. The only DVR I’ve ever had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the Verizon Fios DVR that we got months ago. We didn’t have a DVR until like six months

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ago because I was too cheap to pay the monthly fee. What makes a TiVo, again

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m really honestly asking, what makes a TiVo so much better than that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, so the first thing is capacity. Like cable company DVRs can hold like nothing, even if you get

⏹️ ▶️ John the fanciest, shmanciest one. The current top of the line TiVo holds like 10 times as much. What

⏹️ ▶️ John is it, like 450 hours of HD? Do you know how many hours of HD yours holds?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I want to say it’s measured in tens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Probably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not even 100.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not even close. And that might sound crazy, oh I’m not going to record that much, But once you have a bunch of kids

⏹️ ▶️ John and a bunch of season passes and like, you know, I have queued up, you know, a maximum of five episodes

⏹️ ▶️ John of 17 different shows for all the different kids and all our own things and whole series that I let queue up. Like that’s,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what I’m paying all this money for this box to do. Like under the dome, I watched like the first couple episodes. And now

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just like, man, I’ll save that for that. I’m letting the whole series queue up. I’ll get to it later. Right? You can’t do that unless you have

⏹️ ▶️ John a three terabyte drive in there. And, you know, or if you have U-verse and they do it all server side, but even then the capacity

⏹️ ▶️ John is not that great. So that’s the biggest thing. Like, again, our household would not function. My

⏹️ ▶️ John wife has no idea. I always get like the one that holds the most that you can possibly hold. And she’s still like,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, it’s 80% full. I got to delete stuff. Like she has that paranoia about, you know, the thing filling up or whatever. I’m like, don’t worry.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’ll delete off the ones that were not marked to save. It’ll be fine. But like capacity. So that’s number

⏹️ ▶️ John one. Number two, most, you know, the DVRs that you get from the

⏹️ ▶️ John cable companies can’t record four shows at once or now six shows at once. And you say, well, I’ll never need to record six shows

⏹️ ▶️ John at once. I didn’t think I’d ever need to record four shows at once. But you look at the thing, and very

⏹️ ▶️ John frequently, all four lights are lit up. And those are not all suggestions. Like, it would also record shows that it thinks you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t really use that feature. But anyway, I’ll see what it’s recording. I’m like, you know what? Those are four legitimate shows that are going

⏹️ ▶️ John on at the same time. Now granted, maybe the two that are recording for the kids, we could defer until later for a repeat.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I like being able to record all those things at once.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, to quickly interrupt, that actually does make sense. Because there has only been once or twice. But there were a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey couple of times where we were recording two different shows, and then I wanted to watch live TV for whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reason and not watch those shows at the moment. And our DVR was like, uh-uh, I’ve got two tuners.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’ve got to pick either one of those two shows or leave me alone. So that actually does make

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sense.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the final thing I would say is 30-second skip, which is like every time I use someone else’s DVR

⏹️ ▶️ John or U-verse thing or whatever, and commercials come on, and I have to fast forward through them, I I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John just it’s terrible like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no the Verizon one does I don’t know how many seconds it is, but it does a bulk skip

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, some of them have some kind of skipping feature but most of them have like the fast-forward scan feature and then like

⏹️ ▶️ John they have varying amounts of overrun where you’ll wait till you’ll see the first scene of the show and then you’ll tell it to stop it’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John Actually put you like 10 seconds back into the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco commercial because it thinks you’re old and have better reflexes and Tivo does that it

⏹️ ▶️ John Tivo does exactly the same thing, but Tivo I think is tuned for people with better reflexes But 30 seconds skip and a 30

⏹️ ▶️ John second forward 8 second back like be having that be single button presses That’s one of the things that pissed me off about the

⏹️ ▶️ John the fancy TV I have now is that 30 second skip got slower like if you press the 30 second skip button really fast

⏹️ ▶️ John It will not show it will stop showing you a different frame of video And then you’ll have no idea how far you’ve gone and you’ll have to pause like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what that’s performance issue, right? But even with the performance issue even with me throttling manually

⏹️ ▶️ John throttling myself I would do much rather 30 forward 8 back or 7 back or whatever it is

⏹️ ▶️ John than do fast forward scan in any other DVR. So I would say those are the cornerstones of

⏹️ ▶️ John why TiVo is essential to my life and why other DVRs infuriate me. And there’s many, many other features that you

⏹️ ▶️ John could be interested in transferring things. And there’s actually a very, this is amazing to me. They have a nice iOS app.

⏹️ ▶️ John The iOS interface on the iPad or even on the iPhone is faster, more responsive, everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, how did you make a nice iOS app? I mean, granted, the iOS app was crashy early on and has some really, but like when

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re using it to move stuff, you’re like, Oh, if only the TV interface was like this. You know, it looks just like

⏹️ ▶️ John the TV interface. Like, why can’t you do this over there? This iPod touch costs 200 bucks. Your box costs 600.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just put the iPod touch inside the box. So that I can, I don’t understand what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going on over there with the hardware. Maybe this one will be faster. But anyway, like there are all sorts of other features that other

⏹️ ▶️ John people might be interested in. But for me, those are the big ones. It’s the Mac Pro of DVRs, basically. Like, why do you

⏹️ ▶️ John need a Mac Pro? Why can’t you just get an iMac or an iBook? You could, but I want the Mac Pro. So I have the Mac Pro of DVRs.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, that’s fair. So, but you sound reasonably optimistic about this.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s uglier than mine. That’s another reason it’s keeping me from playing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Are

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey more

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco fans?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it looks, no, the fan is pretty darn good and pretty darn quiet, but the front of it, like, all they did was change the front

⏹️ ▶️ John panel. Like, it’s just a metal box to the front panel. And the new front panel is uglier than the old one in my opinion, but oh well.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, well fair enough anything else we want to talk about or do we want to just end slightly early ish

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I discovered that our we will hit the 50 Meg limit With with our audio

⏹️ ▶️ Marco settings roughly at like an hour 40 Or like I think I think an hour 43 is like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact like the limit of how long we can go Even if you go

⏹️ ▶️ John mono, would you hit that thing where you find out you’re doing stereo before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? Oh, yeah, I’ve been doing mono now for weeks. All right Yeah, so as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco long as you want to keep 64k mono, we got to keep it below an hour 43

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco It’s up to you guys,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco let’s wrap it up. We have so much to talk about we can save it for next episode

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, why are we trying to keep these shows around an hour? I kind of like that and we started going long again

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. Well, it’s like we’re on that hypercritical show or

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey something.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it happens like the sale on we were in today You’ll slide right back into that

⏹️ ▶️ John Disaster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Thanks a lot to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our two sponsors this week Squarespace and Audible and we will see you next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco week!

⏹️ ▶️ Casey notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at and if you’re into Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John you can follow them at c-a-s-e-y-l-i-s-s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so that’s Casey Liss, M-a-r-c-o-a-r-m-e-n-t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco Armin, s-i-r-a-c-u-s-a

⏹️ ▶️ John Syracuse It’s accidental, they

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t mean to Accidental, tech podcasts so long

⏹️ ▶️ John You can hear the opening chord of the song, can’t you?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the thing that people don’t know, is like they talk about the song being catchy It’s catchy for us too,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like I find myself

⏹️ ▶️ John thinking about like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I mean, you can think

⏹️ ▶️ John about the songs to your own damn podcast, but it happens.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh yeah, the whole reason we picked that song was because we couldn’t get it out of our own heads.

⏹️ ▶️ John And because you don’t have the good taste to appreciate bleeps and boops.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh God, listen to this guy. Anything else going

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on? No, I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well, there’s a whole lot going on, but I guess, John, how’s the review going?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s going all right. I mean, like I said, at this point, I have another section that I need to

⏹️ ▶️ John write, but then after that I’m waiting on Apple. I’m waiting for another build, waiting to see

⏹️ ▶️ John what new things work, what screenshots get changed. I’m doing e-book production, working on all

⏹️ ▶️ John that crap.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John try to get into the iBook store this year. We’ll see how that goes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, interesting. Actually, I’m curious. Has your e-book workflow changed since last year?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You described it in a pretty good chunk of Hypercritical back for the last review, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know obviously the whole world of ebook tools is awful, so I’m wondering if anything’s different this year.

⏹️ ▶️ John I had like the programmers’ pile of crap, because I just said

⏹️ ▶️ John a bunch of terrible scripts, and all I did was copy those bunch of terrible scripts and modify the terribleness inside

⏹️ ▶️ John them. At a certain point, maybe I’ll be like, you know what, I should make these not

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy, it’s just I’m just too efficient at modifying the crappy scripts to work with the new

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. The thing is, I’m leaving old stuff in there. I’m just either commenting it out or like, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll need that later. So then they’re accumulating residue. The scripts are terrible. But yeah, these are all just hand

⏹️ ▶️ John assembled. It’s just me, BB Edit, and Pearl. And that’s all you need to basically make an e-book.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I didn’t bother. And the thing is, I fought it all last year to make these scripts.

⏹️ ▶️ John And now I know, don’t bother looking at the tools. It’s just a bunch of files in a container

⏹️ ▶️ John in a format. It’s all text. You zip it up, you feed it through some executables, like.

⏹️ ▶️ John Whatever. I, you know, and it’s all, and what it comes down to and all these things is it’s like, it’s like Android, it’s like, you know, fragmentation,

⏹️ ▶️ John the process is, you know, build the book, load it on this device, see what’s crappy, build it, load it. It’s like Jenga,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, like you push something. All right. Now it looks good on, on the Kindle touch. All right. Let’s look at an iBook. So now it looks bad

⏹️ ▶️ John there. Like the worst one is Kindle because Kindle packs, uh, two formats

⏹️ ▶️ John into a single file the Mobi format and the KF8 format. KF8 is reasonably full featured and Mobi is a pile of crap.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you can’t give different, you know, different content to the two formats.

⏹️ ▶️ John You have to find some crappy way with CSS to, you know, like do these terrible hacks of like, okay, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John apply this style sheet. You can apply style sheets on each device. You say this style sheet applies to KF8 and this style

⏹️ ▶️ John sheet applies to Mobi. And that is sufficient to do anything you want because you’re like, fine, display

⏹️ ▶️ John none on KF8 and And then you know, you just, you can just hide things. But like, come on guys, like I’m generating

⏹️ ▶️ John these files. I could generate two totally different files. This one would be optimized for Mobi, this one would be optimized for KFA, but

⏹️ ▶️ John instead I gotta make one set of markup and do stupid ass CSS hacks to make it look good in both

⏹️ ▶️ John of them. And then by the way, make sure it looks good on, you know, on the iPhone screen, on the big iPhone, on

⏹️ ▶️ John the small iPhone. And now I gotta check it on iBooks, on the Mac as well, and on all the different Kindles, and on the E8 Kindles, and

⏹️ ▶️ John on the Kindle Fire, and use the Kindle Previewer to show us other things. But the Kindle Previewer crashes when you use this particular device, so

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to use the real device, and how do you get the same book onto all your seven devices, and then see where

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks right. So that process sucks and continues to suck.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So Marco, did you ship all of your old devices up to the Boston area in order for John to test?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve got plenty. I don’t have Marco’s collection of Kindles, but I’ve got sufficient Kindles. Last year, I did

⏹️ ▶️ John have to ask Scott McNulty from The Incomparable, who also has every Kindle on demand, to test something because I

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t have a Kindle touch, and the simulator was lying to me. That’s the other thing. Like the previewer, they give you to say, here, try

⏹️ ▶️ John it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco on that device.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a piece of garbage.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, it’s a terrible application and it lies, apparently. Because, like, I previewed it on the Kindle Touch and it looked fine,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then someone sent me a picture of his Kindle Touch after it had already been uploaded to the Amazon Store and he’d bought it and got it and it was, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John unreadable. And it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco well, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not what the previewer

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco showed. No, generally speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Kindle Previewer does not tell you anything. You, you, honestly, you should not even be using it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey It is that bad. I mean, I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it’s better than nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not. Because it’ll, it’ll tell you that something looks a certain way and the actual device is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nothing like that. Like, there’s that big a difference. It is completely useless because it gives you a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco false sense of security.

⏹️ ▶️ John It does give me feature support though. The iOS version of the Kindle Reader, by the way, is terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t support… I don’t even know if it doesn’t support KFA. Maybe it doesn’t support KFA. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John only the Kindle Flyer supports KFA, but I’m amazed that this… KFA is

⏹️ ▶️ John like two years old, a year old, and the iOS reader still acts like an E Ink Kindle with

⏹️ ▶️ John fancy graphics. It can’t do floated images to the side. It’s like, oh, can’t handle that. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, that kind of thing of like, does, is this feature supported in iOS? The previewer can usually show

⏹️ ▶️ John it, because if you try to float something, it will not float in the previewer, and it will not float in the iOS app. So,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, some, I don’t trust it entirely, because I have the devices here, but when I’m making change after change after change,

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes I just want to go to the previewer and click three times and get it to reload the book. That’s the great thing about the

⏹️ ▶️ John Kindle for Mac, which, by the way, I also have to test in, which does display KFA, is you have to like,

⏹️ ▶️ John right-click the book, delete the book, Go to the Finder, find the book, drag it onto the Kindle thing, because you can’t do open

⏹️ ▶️ John from within the app. And then because it copies it into the Kindle library, repeatedly doing

⏹️ ▶️ John that task. I should make an AppleScript for it, because it’s so annoying. You can’t just like, you know, you want to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John OK, the file’s changed. Reload it. It’s like, what do you mean reload it? It hasn’t changed. I have my own copy in my library, and that one hasn’t changed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That sounds awful.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I went through that process, which in the beginning, that process is a nice break from writing, but eventually you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know what, this sucks.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey feeling all oh my god. This is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey bet you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t bad flashbacks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But you’re feeling relatively confident about it

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean like I thought it would come out be similar length the mountain lion one And I think after I finish

⏹️ ▶️ John the slack session it will be maybe a little bit shorter But it feels longer to me cuz I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John why it feels like maybe it feels longer because all the all the screenshots are Retina like I don’t think there’s more screenshots than there

⏹️ ▶️ John were before maybe they’re even less but all of them are twice as big. So, like, the production workflow, those

⏹️ ▶️ John big images, and that’s the other thing with Kindle, they charge you for the download, they charge you per megabyte. And so now

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve just doubled the size of my book. And it’s like, it’s a $4 book, and I’m already, you know, Amazon’s

⏹️ ▶️ John already, you know, it’s a $5 book, Amazon’s already getting like four bucks out of that five. You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, I’m going to double the size of it, and they’re going to take even more. I don’t want to raise the price of the book, so I’ve had to crush

⏹️ ▶️ John down the images with even bigger compression in the Kindle one. That’s the advantage of the iBooks

⏹️ ▶️ John version. and I’m gonna ship full res pings on there because Apple, as far as I know, does not charge anything for downloads. So I’m like,

⏹️ ▶️ John here you go, 35 meg book, enjoy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, Apple, I mean, like that’s why, what was David Sparks’ book? Was it Paperless,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the one that he

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John did? Yeah, that was huge. It was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a gig, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it was fine, like Apple doesn’t charge anything different for that.

⏹️ ▶️ John That would cost you like $150 in download fees from Amazon’s side. Amazon has two deals, like you can do 70% royalty,

⏹️ ▶️ John which is pretty good, like so you get 70% of the purchase price of the book. Of course, you don’t get to pick the purchase price they can change it for

⏹️ ▶️ John price matching. But anyway, 70%, but there’s that per megabyte fee, or you can get 30%

⏹️ ▶️ John and no per megabyte fee. So, you know, they know what they’re doing over there. But I’ll be much happier to get

⏹️ ▶️ John the 70% and also no download fee at iBooks if I can get through

⏹️ ▶️ John the process of submitting a book to iBooks and getting it published and approved, which is much harder than Kindle, because Amazon’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like, sure, upload it, click a button, and eventually we’ll put it up for sale, but then we’ll People refuse to load it onto an iPad for

⏹️ ▶️ John no reason. That was last year’s drama. This year, I don’t know what’s going

⏹️ ▶️ John to go wrong. Who knows? But you’re just totally powerless. You can’t get in touch with a human.

⏹️ ▶️ John And days are passing and people are like, how can you sell this book? You can’t even load it on an iPad. And you totally can,

⏹️ ▶️ John but their website says you can’t. And their website refuses to send it to

⏹️ ▶️ John an iPad. Like, you know, I send to my Kindle, it won’t even list your iPad. It’s like, sorry, this book can’t be sent to an iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, it can. It totally can. I’m looking at it right now. And then they fix it. And then we uploaded a new

⏹️ ▶️ John version of the book with typos fixed, and then it couldn’t be loaded on the iPad again. Yeah, that’s the whole episode of Hypercritical about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that. Now I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco curious, because of the audience, obviously this is not a good solution for most books, but because of the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco audience of an in-depth, tens of thousands of words, Mac OS X

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version, point release version review, obviously this is a somewhat technical audience.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you do the thing that I believe O’Reilly does or one of the big publishers does,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably all of them do it, where you sell the book on your own site and or on you know on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ours or whoever’s doing it and and then you can just download a Mobi version for if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you if you want to put on a Kindle. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John is that?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well ours does that like if you if you sign up for a month of like ours premiere which is like five bucks the same price

⏹️ ▶️ John as buying

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a book on other stores,

⏹️ ▶️ John you get you get the Kindle, I don’t know if they put the Kindle version, but anyway you get an iBooks compatible EPUB,

⏹️ ▶️ John no DRM, you get a PDF version, and I believe they also put the Kindle version up, but I forget,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you get the movie and KFA version. So, like, that is the best deal if you want to do that. But then

⏹️ ▶️ John people are wary, like, oh, I don’t want to subscribe to something because then I have to remember to cancel and all this other stuff. And it’s like, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John for five bucks, you can get every single one of these books in every format, but if you’d rather buy…

⏹️ ▶️ John People just feel comfortable buying from Amazon, so that’s why I put it up on Amazon. A lot of people ask about iBooks.

⏹️ ▶️ John If I can get my book up there, I’m going to do that as well. I’m giving I think everyone should read it on the web for free

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that is by far the best version of this book to read but sometimes people just want to give me money sometimes people just really

⏹️ ▶️ John want to read it on their Kindle like if you’re gonna read this review on an E Ink Kindle like with like the images on like grayscale like

⏹️ ▶️ John some people want to do that and who am I to say that they can’t give me money so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that’s why I figure like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco figure like how much how much of your time and trouble is it really worth to give an amazing experience

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to these devices where it’s already doomed to be a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John crappy experience in general. It’s not amazing I’m just trying to

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just trying to be acceptable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well but it’s you know it’s pretty much doomed like it’s not gonna be good and you know and why not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and especially dealing with like the weird megabyte limitations and Amazon’s stupid tools

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean every every tool Amazon makes for publishers is ridiculously horrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so just dealing with all that stuff is well you can sign

⏹️ ▶️ John up for KDP select and then you get you know per megabyte download and all this

⏹️ ▶️ John other great stuff but your book your book must be for sale exclusively oh yeah and So ask that!

⏹️ ▶️ John I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John seriously, why…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The concerns about not wanting to sign up for a subscription and having to remember to cancel it, those are very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco valid. Why not just… Because obviously, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure there are people at ours, and they’re kind enough to ask, right? I’m sure they want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people to subscribe, and that’s part of the reason of having it on their site. site but certainly they can also realize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the value of just like make a dedicated page for just this book put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a stripe form up there and just have some way to pay five bucks and get the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco files for download right there without having to sign up like they you would make so much more and they would make so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John from that it’s not that

⏹️ ▶️ John much money in the grand scheme it’s like not that many people buy the book so we don’t want to get a two or blown like and and they do sell more

⏹️ ▶️ John books than just mine like I think you’re right like at this point they sell, like maybe there’s like four ebooks

⏹️ ▶️ John a year that they sell, they, you know, get significant sales. It’s maybe probably

⏹️ ▶️ John worth it for them to do what you said, put up a page, have Stripe do it or whatever. But like, I don’t think that’s how, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s something that ours would have to make on its own. Conde Nast has no sort of infrastructure for like, hey, we’re gonna sell stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John over

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco the world. But wait, how do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they sell the other ebooks that they make? You just said they make four a year.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they do put them on

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Amazon. Like, that’s, most

⏹️ ▶️ John people just put them up on Amazon. I think I’m, they may have done some on iBooks, I don’t remember, or I

⏹️ ▶️ John may be the first iBook books one, I don’t know. But if they did it themselves,

⏹️ ▶️ John if you think about the development cost of how many developers and how much time it would take to do that, they would eat up the first and second

⏹️ ▶️ John year sales. We sell some ebooks, but they’re $5 ebooks, and

⏹️ ▶️ John tons of people read them on the web and slice off many, many zeros to see how many people

⏹️ ▶️ John actually buy them. It’s not that much money. So I understand it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John on the balancing point of, well, we could have our developers at add features to the website or whatever, or we could have

⏹️ ▶️ John them put up a stripe page. And at this point, I think sending them on it to Amazon or iBooks

⏹️ ▶️ John and sort of delegating that and outsourcing it, I think it’s still reasonable. Like if they were selling, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John if every single article is available in ebook form or like some percentage of them, but it’s really just like four or five high profile articles

⏹️ ▶️ John a year. And you know, who knows? It could happen like, cause they do have good development. Like they

⏹️ ▶️ John wrote their own live, you know, what do you call it? Events like, uh, what was it? Cover it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey live for the same

⏹️ ▶️ John things.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, like when you’re covering

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, because they kept using third party vendors and they kept crapping out, so they wrote their own. But that’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John more of a core competency of the site. Like you go to ours for the live blog, there’s like 20 of those a year, and that’s big

⏹️ ▶️ John traffic time. So they wrote their own one of those, and had their developers do it, and it’s awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think they’re at that point now for book sales.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Anyway, can we talk about the M4?

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of gold.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yes, seriously. What is that color? Every time I see that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s gotta be

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Photoshopped. No

⏹️ ▶️ John real object is that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco color.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Remember when the Dodge Neon first came out in like 98 or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John whatever it was? Yes, yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it had like a mustard yellow color. It just looked terrible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John This is like the exact same color.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why people do that. Like a BMW has a bad color gene. They have that.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yes, that’s true. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of their cars have to be available in like two or three great colors, three or for forgettable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco colors and like two completely awful I can’t believe that’s even available colors

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah and I don’t know if that’s like a cultural thing like in Germany those colors are popular or just no one that like who

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey think you remember

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John taxi

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Munich taxis were what how did you describe it Marco

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it’s like color yeah yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like this very very light beige it’s like it’s plastic from the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco late 80s that when it was new was white it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not scorched it’s like when you leave when you leave the old Apple hardware like old max out in the Sun they orange

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deepen. Exactly, yeah. Same thing with like the white MacBook had that problem originally. I had one of those that had that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem where like the entire what they called the top case which is like the whole surface that the keyboard is part

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of that that whole panel would discolor into like this gross orangey

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looking thing because of heat and people thought it was because of like dirty hands because it would be a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of times in like the the hand resting area but even if you’d put like films on top of it which I did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco immediately when it was brand new you would still get that discoloration underneath the film and it turned

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out they had this problem that it was just like the plastic was aging poorly with all the heat that it had to deal with being a laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they eventually replaced them all or

⏹️ ▶️ John so they probably they probably dealt with that same issue among many others with the white iPhone that they had so much trouble with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh I’m sure that was part of it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so yeah so the m4 was announced it’s this hideous gold and when we say gold we don’t mean fun-looking champagne

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you even consider

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John that it’s like mustard vomit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hideous.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, it’s mustard.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like if you miss mustard and mercury.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, yes. And it’s awful. I think it’s a decent looking car under the paint,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe. It’s so hard to see because I’m too busy cleaning up my own vomit. But they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saying it’s a twin-turbo version of my motor, the N55, which is about the same power output

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as the V8 E90 M3. Wait, they

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco gave engine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco details? A little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Or maybe it was in that Autoblog post

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that I asked. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was expected to be a triple turbo V6 3.0 with roughly 400 horsepower.

⏹️ ▶️ John Can you put a link in the chat room to that one of these pictures?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m trying. I’m trying to multitask. It’s not working. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the other interesting thing that they announced today, and I’m putting the link in now, is that it’s losing the manual transmission,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which makes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco me extremely sad. Well, but hold on. That was a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rumor that Autoblog reported, that their source said. But then like Beamer Post

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chimed in and said, we’ve actually heard the opposite. And here’s a photo of a prototype on, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, that was spotted somewhere that had a stick. And there’s like all the and like, here’s like the VIN database

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that this one says it has a DCT and this one doesn’t say that. So it probably has a stick. Like there’s, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all sorts of, of pretty good reasons to the contrary.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John See this color. Oh my god, it could be like it’s Photoshop.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know what, you know what that you know what it looks like? Marco will know what color that looks like.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve dealt with I you’re probably talking about like infant poop or something. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John am talking about

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco in Poop I have to eat feed them

⏹️ ▶️ John the peas that’s infant poop color totally

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I like they’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John on to solid foods quite like it’s mostly milk because their milk poop is kind of yellowish But then

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco like yeah, I

⏹️ ▶️ John started feeding them the split pee that is that is in a diaper right

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there. Yeah, definitely No, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, I’ve actually spent all day dealing with a sick dog and I’ve seen some of those colors today actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, it’s also

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also

⏹️ ▶️ John dog vomit color

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because dog

⏹️ ▶️ John vomit is usually yellowish. Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Now, I’ve also seen, and I think I sent this only to Marco. I don’t remember if I sent this to you, John.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But somebody found or put together sales numbers, or what do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they call them, take rates for?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, you sent it to us of how many people are buying

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the

⏹️ ▶️ John manuals.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, the E90 M3 and how when they started offering the DCT, you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey saw the take rate of manual transmissions just plummet everywhere except the US, which seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey totally backwards to me because nobody in America drives a stick, and everyone drives

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stupid automatics. Whereas in Europe, in my experience, everyone drives a stick and nobody drives automatics.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But apparently in the M3, it was reversed. And so one of the arguments they’ve had, Marco and I were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about this earlier in IM, is, well, maybe the US will get the stick and nobody else will in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John M4.

⏹️ ▶️ John But then it could be like the M5, where like, yeah, the US gets a stick, but it sucks and no one wants it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And if you look at those take rates, it does look like, though, that the M5, the take rate for the stick was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco getting pretty bad. But the M3 take rate for the stick in the US was, I think, like 50% still.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the M3 stick was good. And the M5 stick, every

⏹️ ▶️ John review I’ve read of it is like mushy and not satisfying to use. Like, you got to make a good stick. You can’t be

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, fine. Here you go. Here’s a stick. No, no. It wasn’t that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was a bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John stick.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was that the rest of the car designed around the stick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just was so much better with the DCT.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Well, hold on. Every

⏹️ ▶️ John review I’ve read of it said it’s a bad stick.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey M5 are we talking about?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Mine?

⏹️ ▶️ John Marco’s M5. OK,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey because the E60, which was the V10 M5, universally, everything I’ve ever heard, you’re absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, total piece of crap. The F10 M5, which is Marcos, I read

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one article, and it was only one. And to be fair, I think it might have been in the BMW owners

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John club, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is, magazine. But they said, oh my god, the six-speed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey F10 M5 is amazing. And they were extremely effusive about it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll go read the groupings of magazines from my youth, which I keep reading like an old

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey man. No, no, no, I agree.

⏹️ ▶️ John Car and driver, road and track, automobile, motor trend. Motor trend’s kind of raggy. None of them like the stick.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, I completely agree.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John This was the only one I saw.

⏹️ ▶️ John They all thought the DCT version was the one to get. And that even like car and driver, who’s got

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole Save the Manuals campaign, they’re like, we can’t recommend that anyone get this manual.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not a good manual. You should get an M3 if you want a manual.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, and maybe not anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ John You still get an M3 with a manual, just

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not an M4. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John it seems like I think it would have to. I totally believe that person who said that the US is going to get it.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do worry, though, that it will be like the M5. Like Marco said, not well-matched the car, but also

⏹️ ▶️ John like the M5, not a satisfying manual by all the reports that I read of it, which is a shame. Because it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John a checkmark. So you don’t be like, oh, it’s got a manual. Check the box. Therefore, I feel good. You want to get the enjoyment

⏹️ ▶️ John of the manual. And BMW manuals are really nice. I’ve driven my father’s, and I’ve driven his Audi,

⏹️ ▶️ John and many only driven manuals my whole life. And the BMW manual he’s got in his car is the nicest feeling

⏹️ ▶️ John one that I’ve ever driven. And they have something there. If they’re going to preserve it for the US

⏹️ ▶️ John as a kind of a throwback and because people want it, at least give the good one. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco something that feels good. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for whatever it’s worth also. Like, like I had, when I had the 1M, that was an amazing stick. It was, that was a fantastic stick car,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fantastic stick experience, everything. Now they’re, they’re replacing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that effectively with the new M235i model that is coming to the US.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that, for all intents and purposes, looks like the sequel to the 1M.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the kind of thing, I bet that’s going to be probably the last car in the lineup available with a stick.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s possible. Because they always said the 1M was as close as you could get to what,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the E30 M3? You know, the original, lightweight, relatively high power, but extremely lightweight,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey high revving M3. And everything I read about the 1M was very similar to that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You drove one. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey not as attractive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with a car, and this is going to sound crazy, but with a car the size of the 3 Series, and of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco course being based on it, then the M3, now with the new M3 and 4, they have focused a lot on weight

⏹️ ▶️ Marco savings. That’s one of the reasons they went from the V8 to the V6, and they are doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more carbon fiber, more aluminum. saying like one of the main reasons one of the main goals with the m3 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the m4 was to be lighter weight than their regular non m3 series counterparts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so maybe maybe this won’t hold true quite yet but I think enthusiasts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who like the feel of driving a lot and who and who want that kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of like direct connection between you know your body and the road that you can feel so well with a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stick and that level of control, I think they’re going to be pushed to smaller and smaller

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cars. I don’t think it would be that bad if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the M235i comes out and ends up being awesome, and maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco five years from now, that’s the only BMW available with a stick. I don’t think that would be that bad, because the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enthusiasts who like having a stick, who who like the advantages that gives you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tend to also like smaller and lighter cars.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they’ll eventually go to. I hope it’s the generation of kids who will grow up not ever using a stick,

⏹️ ▶️ John not ever desiring a stick, and they will appreciate all the good things about an automated manual,

⏹️ ▶️ John and there are many, and then that’ll be that. So eventually we’ll all die, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah. It’s like, we worry about, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, the buddy called adjusting the fuel mixture with the rods sticking out of the dashboard. You know, we don’t care, we

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t care about that. People used to. They all died.