Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

10: Gradual Ramp Up To Nothing

Laptops in school, getting tech jobs, mail servers and spam, Steve Jobs’ direct commentary, WWDC tickets, going ticketless or watching WWDC videos at home, Cook’s hints on the earnings call, bored consumers, and Marco’s mom’s first smartphone.

Episode Description:
  • Laptops in school.
  • Getting a tech job with and without a college degree.
  • Running mail servers in today's spam environment.
  • Steve Jobs' unauthorized talking points.
  • The WWDC announcement and trying to get tickets.
  • Going to WWDC vs. a ticketless trip vs. watching the videos at home.
  • Apple's Q2 earnings and hints dropped during the call.
  • The tech industry's holding pattern with bored consumers.
  • Marco's mom buys her first smartphone, ignoring Marco's advice. Which one did she get?

Sponsored by MailRoute and Hover.

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).

Transcript start

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so last episode I mentioned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that at my alma mater, which is Virginia Tech, they have been requiring

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tablets for a while. And when I say tablets, I don’t mean iPads. I mean, honest to God, those

⏹️ ▶️ Casey awful Microsoft quasi computers, not the Surface, like the real old Microsoft tablets.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I got some feedback. I got some from a just graduated or recently graduated

⏹️ ▶️ Casey student, Alan Fuller, and I got some from somebody who is associated with the teaching

⏹️ ▶️ Casey part of the college, Joseph G. I’m going to read you a very small excerpt of what Joseph

⏹️ ▶️ Casey said. He said, I teach electrical engineering, and I can tell you that most of the students

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here hate those required tablet PCs, that they are all required to buy, more expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and less capable. The purpose is for everything to be submitted electronically, but it fails so spectacularly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at this that I just have them print everything and submit hard copies. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey suspect half of them are browsing Facebook during class anyway. And I thought that was kind of interesting and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey different that here it is that the school, if you ask me, was trying to be progressive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and say, oh, let’s do this wild thing with these tablets. And as it turns out, apparently everyone hates them anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is of no great surprise, but I thought it was interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it’s interesting too. Like, I mean, I think we are all, especially John,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we are all old enough that we didn’t really have computers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really that prevalent in classrooms when we were in college and certainly you know high school I don’t know if they do that in high school yet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you know we didn’t have they do like not everybody was having laptops on their desk in college

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when we were there is that fair for you also Casey I know it’s fair for John to see it’s like 50

⏹️ ▶️ Casey well we did not have laptops in in high school when I was in high school however

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the school in which my wife teaches actually made national news many many years ago because well like 10

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years ago, because they used to have, what did you call the Mac books before

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they were iBooks? They used to have iBooks and they sold them for $50 a pop after they’d been used

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by middle schoolers for a couple years. And they sold them at the Richmond International Raceway, the NASCAR track.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And apparently there were like stampedes in order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco to get these 50. Oh, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey remember that. Yeah, that’s the school district in which Aaron teaches. So. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco awesome.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But to this day, they have really crummy Dells that all the kids get issued. And from what I understand,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s a double-edged sword.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t imagine getting anything, like paying attention just to school at all. If I was in

⏹️ ▶️ John high school with a laptop, with an internet, even without an internet, just, I paid,

⏹️ ▶️ John just, why would you ever pay attention to class?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, I mean, like I remember like there was, in my senior year of college, we had one class

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was in a brand new lab with all these Linux desktops. And I spent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much time playing Same Gnome and browsing the internet. and not at all paying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco attention to what was being said in the class. And I was lucky that even being a computer science

⏹️ ▶️ Marco student, most of the classrooms didn’t have computers in them. They just were like regular classrooms with desks and you would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco take notes if you were a good student or you would stare at the wall like me. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the idea of like having those, I would not have the self-control and I would imagine,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in fact I know I didn’t when I had that opportunity senior year, I didn’t have that self-control

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I looked around the room and no one else did either. And I have to imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s probably going to be a pretty common problem as computers infiltrate and become—they probably already

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are—everyday items now in college classrooms.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you know, the problem with the Virginia Tech thing is it’s like the Minitel effect, where a school

⏹️ ▶️ John thinks, all right, technology, you know, this is the next big thing. And the mistake they make is saying, not just that

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re going to require everyone to have a computer, or this year we’re going to require everyone to have this computer, But they think that they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John going to do it like they do with desks. We’ve decided that this is the best desk for our school. And it’s got this

⏹️ ▶️ John chair and this height and has this place for your books. And we’re going to order 500 of them. We’re going to use them for the next 20

⏹️ ▶️ John years. And so they decided that whatever, this little flippy round screen tablet PC thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s the future. And they just went with it. And they expect it to be standardized going forward. And

⏹️ ▶️ John that stuff was obsolete before it even arrives at the school due to the delays in purchase orders and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ John And after they realized that they made, or after everyone, after all the students realized that they made a terrible

⏹️ ▶️ John mistake, you know, oh, we, you know, don’t, this is terrible, don’t do this, it doesn’t work, doesn’t make our lives easier,

⏹️ ▶️ John these are crappy computers. They don’t say, oh yeah, no, we gotta stop that, and they just, you know, they keep going

⏹️ ▶️ John with it. Oh, we’ll get the new version of that tablet PC. So it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a whole

⏹️ ▶️ John combination of ailments of like not refusing to admit your mistakes and not realizing that standardizing

⏹️ ▶️ John to that degree is always gonna come back and bite you. And the Minitel was this computer they had in France. I don’t know. Someone

⏹️ ▶️ John in the chat room can look it up on Wikipedia and tell us more about it. But for a long time, it was good. And everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John in France could get a Minitel and get onto this little network and do

⏹️ ▶️ John interesting things. And you don’t have this in your other countries. But it’s bad in that it lasted forever. And it was just an embarrassment and a joke. Obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ John the government doing it is the worst case scenario in terms of standardizing universally

⏹️ ▶️ John and being out of date and taking forever to arrive and not being able to fix mistakes. But a university is

⏹️ ▶️ John a nice step down from that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, to be fair, Virginia Tech only mandated tablets for the engineers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And they’ve been mandating computers in general for incoming students for something like 20 or 30

⏹️ ▶️ Casey years. I think it was like mid-‘80s that they started mandating that all the students

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would have to have computers. But I agree with you, John, that it’s, I think, them saying, ooh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this tablet thing, this is progressive and exciting. And we’re a progressive school. And it ends up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey biting them in the butt. And nobody has got the confidence to hit the brakes and say, man, maybe this is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bad. And also consider that these aren’t purchased by the school. These aren’t issued by the school. These

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are, everyone has to buy their own machine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, they’re taking so much money from you anyway. Who cares?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s true. It’s kind of insulting, though, at

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that point.

⏹️ ▶️ John It feels bad, but it also feels bad buying hundreds of dollars worth of stupid books every semester, too. That’s true.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know. Do kids still buy books? We used to buy books.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, yeah. And they still pull all the same crap with, like, you have to buy the professor’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco own book. you have to buy like the spiral bound like xerox

⏹️ ▶️ Marco piles that are some other thing like and then of course they have the used book

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ordeal which there’s no better word for it just a giant scam

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s I mean that’s you know I wonder this has been a big problem that’s probably beyond the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scope of this show but you know there’s a problem now with college

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being worth it or not And I don’t know how much this has been a problem in the past, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems like a combination of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco surprisingly dramatically increasing tuition in the last decade or so and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That the economy being so terrible For jobs seems like college is actually becoming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a worse and worse deal for students I mean I again this is probably way beyond the scope of this show But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know all these things add up and you got to figure especially like in our industry Where so many people get by

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just fine without a college degree? It doesn’t really help when you’re starting out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you can make it work

⏹️ ▶️ John Private college is probably like you know be state schools. I think even though the funding is being massively

⏹️ ▶️ John slashed for them I think it still net net I would say You know you’re better

⏹️ ▶️ John off going to the cheapest possible state school that you can get into and then not because your student debt won’t be

⏹️ ▶️ John astronomical like it’ll be if you go to someplace that costs you 60 grand a year or something you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know what I mean? I guess that’s true and plus like you know if if your boss is somebody like me who was pretty much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a slacker and just barely got through school I don’t really care what school you went to like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I’m reviewing your resume like I whatever school you went to I probably haven’t heard of it no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter how good it was so I don’t know I don’t care I have to imagine that’s probably true of many of the like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mid-level and high-level bosses and tech companies especially smaller companies run by younger people. I have to imagine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John many of them are being run by slackers.

⏹️ ▶️ John Once you get to a certain size, though, they do the stupid filtering of like they just want a degree for you. You know, the first

⏹️ ▶️ John level HR pass is just filtering out anybody who doesn’t have a degree in something vaguely related.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you know, that’s stupid. You could say that’s not the way you should run a company. But once companies reach a certain size, they

⏹️ ▶️ John start doing stupid things. And that’s one of them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s yeah, I guess I guess if all this is probably true in most tech jobs. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you want a job at a place that has an HR department, you’re better off making something that they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can buy the company. You have a better chance of them buying your startup than you do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of getting through the HR department’s automatic filters and all the keyword filtering and the recruiters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and all that crap.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I mean, most people don’t. That’s the thing. Most people don’t go through that gauntlet. Most people

⏹️ ▶️ John get into companies like that because they they know someone who’s there, or someone

⏹️ ▶️ John inside the company starts to know them online, even if they just follow them on Twitter or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John And you bypass some or all of that idiotic process by someone inside the company going, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John no, no, just bring him in. We just want, we actually want to interview him. And that short circuits the idiocy, you know what I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah. And

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s how people get hired, the referrals, friends, stuff like that, and those type of things. I mean, I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t think I’ve ever gotten a job by just going through the front door. Maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John once in my life I get a job by just going through the front door. And every other time, it’s like you know someone inside

⏹️ ▶️ John the company or you get to know someone inside the company. You know someone who knows someone and then you bypass all that BS

⏹️ ▶️ John and that’s how you get your interview, instead of having to jump through the stupid hurdles and pass keyword

⏹️ ▶️ John filters and all that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff. Actually, how I got my job, which became Tumblr, was exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just applying. David posted a Craig goes, ad looking for programmers, and I responded.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that was, that’s how I got that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey job.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a job that way. And by the way, a real time follow up as per Twitter, not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the chat room, I’m disappointed in the Jackals.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Useless chat

⏹️ ▶️ Casey room. I know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Can we call

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them Jackals? Because this isn’t five by five. Maybe we should have

⏹️ ▶️ John we should

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John have our own term.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Heathens.

⏹️ ▶️ John I never liked calling the five by five people Jackals either. And I won’t call these people Jackals either.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It’s disrespectful.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey These awesome friends in the chat room let us down already. But Jason Deering

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in Twitter said I was a freshman in 97. It wasn’t mandated then. It was recommended. And so I quickly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looked and according to tech, it wasn’t until 98. And since 98, each coming undergraduate student

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had been required to own a personal computer, blah, blah, blah. So real-time follow-up. But no, I’ve never gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a job. To my recollection, I’ve never gotten a job just by cold-calling someone. It’s always been a friend

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of a friend or something along those lines that has got me in the door. So I’m a little surprised,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco, that that—and I think I knew that story, but I’m a little surprised that’s how you ended up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco at—

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, that was a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey fluke.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, like my first job, even that, like my first job out of college at Vivissimo,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even that was a friend already worked there and got me an interview. Like, it was, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so much more important with who you know. The Davidville that became Tumblr job, that was a fluke.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, that doesn’t really ever happen. That was totally a fluke.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think he had an HR department that you were bypassing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either. Not at all. Exactly. I mean, that’s like, he emailed, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I emailed from the ad, he requested a code sample. I showed him some PHP code I had written, that’s exactly what he was looking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for. And that was it. And then he mailed me two books on Ruby on Rails and said,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you start in a few weeks, get up to speed on this stuff. And that was it. But I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the reasons that worked, one of the reasons that that was a totally lucky break for me, is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he didn’t really know what he was doing. So he didn’t know that you’re supposed to go through all these, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, all this crazy process and filtering and collect a billion resumes, like, all that stuff that everyone else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does because they know that’s how it’s done. David didn’t know that. Like, David, you know, he was a young

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kid when he hired me. I didn’t know that really. But he, like, I had to tell him about things like holidays.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like, he really didn’t know about how things are done in the pro work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco world because he was never really in it except working for himself, by himself. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, that was a lucky break. But I think if you don’t have a college degree, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you have a crappy college degree, or if you have, I think my final GPA was something like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a 2.3 or something. It was a terrible GPA. If you have like a terrible GPA like me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think you have a way better chance of getting into companies like that, that are being run by basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inexperienced young people, or companies who are just so desperate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that they just need anybody who walks in the door, but you don’t usually want those jobs. But like, you know, know, the companies that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are run by young people like the startups, or and consultancies often, and everything like that, I feel like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s so much easier to get a job there, because you’re more likely to run into somebody like David

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who doesn’t really know how things are supposed to be done in the ways that would rule you out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so what else are we talking about? Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this would be a good time to break for our first sponsor.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Actually, it would.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco will filter those out before it even hits your mail server. Spam. They have really good spam filtering. They guarantee 99

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point something. I forget the number. It’s a really good spam filtering level, they guarantee you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it won’t even reach your mail server. So your mail server, first of all, you have way less chance of getting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any spam because there’s another filter in front of you. And second of all, your mail server has to process

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way fewer messages. So if you’re doing a high volume or if you’re paying for the CPU load on that server,

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco And thank you very much to MailRoute for sponsoring the Accidental Tech Podcast.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know what I like about them is that they knew the audience well enough to know that if you were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to tell them to change an MX record, they’re all going to nod their heads knowingly and say, yep, yep, totally

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, totally. I mean, that’s one of the advantages of having a geek audience and knowing geek products is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s pretty easy to just say that and

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⏹️ ▶️ John Do you ever see an email denial of service attack? I saw one of those recently.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, that’s pretty crazy. I’ve always honestly, I don’t host my own email because hosting email, as MailRoute

⏹️ ▶️ Marco knows and as they solve for a lot of people, hosting email

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is such a pain because you can set it up and you think it’s working. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once you start getting into the complexities of things like spam filtering, being blacklisted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or black hole or whatever it is, gray listing, all the crazy complexity that we’ve added to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco our mail infrastructure to usually in response to spam or security problems,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it makes hosting your own and getting your own mail delivered to other people reliably so difficult.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, the graph I recently saw was showing a number of incoming mails per day. And it was labeled with colors,

⏹️ ▶️ John with one color for spam and one color for a good mail. And you see mostly it’s like 50-50

⏹️ ▶️ John ratio good mail spam. But those were tiny little slivers, like two pixels high. And then in the middle

⏹️ ▶️ John of the graph were two gigantic towers that were like the height of the screen. They were all the color of

⏹️ ▶️ John spam with a little tiny frosting on the top of regular mail. And over the course of two days, the spam volume

⏹️ ▶️ John went up by like 10,000x and then went back down again. And it’s like, is that like a bot

⏹️ ▶️ John gone wild or a coordinated attack? Or that’s the type of 10x, 100x, 1,000x volume that you just may, oh, guess what?

⏹️ ▶️ John Today your mail server is getting a bazillion spams. You don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know why.

⏹️ ▶️ John can’t control it. Yeah, not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s crazy. Yeah. I mean, generally, the best wisdom I can tell the audience is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t host your own mail if you can help it because hosting your mail sucks. And that that and this isn’t even part of the mail route

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ad even they will help quite a bit in this regard. This isn’t even you know, if you choose to use mail

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right or not, that’s up to you. I think it’s a cool service. But whether or not you do that, do not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco host your own mail that is it is such a world of hurt to use a Steve Jobs or a bag of hurt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what was the blu-ray bag of her bag of hurt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah it’s such a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bag of hurt you know I not not to get all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sad for a moment but I really do miss Steve Jobs at times like when the galaxy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco s4 comes out and it has an easy mode you know I would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John love to know

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll take a dig at that too don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I you know cuz there Steve was always so good about these little quips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that he would leak in an email or a comment somewhere or on the earnings call or something,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somebody would ask me about some competitor’s stupid thing, and he would just tear them apart in like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seven words. And I really do miss, like, what would he have to say about, especially,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what would he have to say about Google Glass? I mean, that’s…

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the big thing about Steve Jobs is, it’s twofold. One, he was a person that

⏹️ ▶️ John a lot of people admired, and two, Apple as a company was and still is, not the kind of company

⏹️ ▶️ John to have like, oh, you could you could just call them up and get some random obnoxious quote from some random VP. Like they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John very controlled about their messaging. So you always want to hear what an admired person has to say about

⏹️ ▶️ John any topic, right? So that’s one reason we’re hanging on his every word. And the second thing is, he was the only person in the entire organization

⏹️ ▶️ John who had the authority to make stupid-ass comments.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you could not get, you couldn’t get, you couldn’t call Apple and say, can you tell us what you guys think of the exact, you’re never gonna get anyone on the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John no one will ever give you a line, but if you’re talking to Steve Jobs, you never know who’s gonna stop him. And most of

⏹️ ▶️ John the time he was very controlled and didn’t say a thing, but occasionally you’d push that one button and he’d be like, you know what? That

⏹️ ▶️ John thing is a piece of crap, let me tell you why. And you’re like, oh, this is the stuff, because you could never get that any other way. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like Phil Schiller’s gonna come up and make a quip about easy mode and or whatever, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever thing that they’re gonna be showing for iOS 7 or new iPhones, they’ll make like an

⏹️ ▶️ John offhanded quip about something But when the press gets him after the fact, he’s just gonna repeat his talking

⏹️ ▶️ John points You know, he’s not gonna go off on a three-second diatribe about you know, like the bag of hurt thing

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not like a rehearsed talking point that was like someone asked him about blu-ray and he said, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know what that stuff is crap and He was that wasn’t and if that wasn’t in the talking points, it’s not gonna be

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not gonna come out of Tim Cook’s mouth Or Phil Schiller’s mouth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey He was the best when he fired from the hip and he did it rarely But when he did it, it was fantastic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, I think a lot like I bet he had that phrase bag of hurt turning over in his head for weeks or months

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and he was just waiting for a time to use it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I bet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he had like a nice arsenal of like what he thinks about X and it usually just didn’t hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, they were they’re discussed internally and like what he everyone who’s had these conversations with him internally is going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, he’s giving greatest hits of the rants we’ve all had internally. But like, normally

⏹️ ▶️ John that stuff would just stay inside the company. But you know, he was the one guy who could let it out when he felt

⏹️ ▶️ John like it just for the hell of it. Like I always wonder how much stuff he does ad-libbing like that. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the ones that comes to mind, I really hope someone writes a tell-all book about this stuff, was back when he introduced the

⏹️ ▶️ John G5. And I think he said, like, and they’re going to be at 3 gigahertz in a year. Someone in the chat room can correct

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco him in the timelines,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? And it’s like, did someone from IBM tell him that? Or did he go, you know what, screw them. They better

⏹️ ▶️ John be at 3 gigahertz within a year. And I’m just going to say they’re going to be. And if they’re not, I’m going to blame them later. And everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John else is going to be like, well, what are you going to do? Steve Jobs says

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever the hell he wants.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Exactly. Alright, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speaking of Apple, you want to discuss this WWDC situation? I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco unfortunately, it’s only going to be relevant mostly to our live listeners, of which there are now approximately 220,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is kind of crazy to think about. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll only probably be relevant to them because by the time this comes out, of course, it will be, we’re going to release this probably on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Friday, So we will already have or not have our tickets.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco we should

⏹️ ▶️ John confidently predict what’s going to happen so people can laugh at us in retrospect when they find out what actually did

⏹️ ▶️ John happen to us. That’s a fair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I will confidently predict that I will try my darndest to get a ticket,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fail, and then go fetal for the rest of the week and weekend, crying miserably about how I didn’t get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a ticket.

⏹️ ▶️ John I still feel like I’m going to be able to get one. like, what was it, two hours last year or something? If we’re just, if we’re all there,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, and Marco is, I’m starting to get on board with Marco’s optimistic prediction. It’s like, look, they use it for iPhone orders.

⏹️ ▶️ John Way more people want an iPhone than want to go to WRC. Like, there are many assumptions in that statement.

⏹️ ▶️ John One of which is that this is the same system as uses iPhones, which I don’t necessarily believe, but like, hey, you know, it could happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John The servers could stay up. We could, and if they do, presumably everyone who’s there sitting there

⏹️ ▶️ John at like 1 p.m. going click, click, click. Like, don’t you think all those people are going to get tickets?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, but the problem is, like, I believe I don’t remember the gentleman’s name, and I couldn’t pronounce it even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I remembered it. But the guy who did the WWDC alerts that you could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jump the line if you paid money.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Oh, that

⏹️ ▶️ John poor guy.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Or all those poor people.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes. Well, beside that,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I believe— Yeah, I don’t feel sorry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the guy at all. I think he made out quite nicely, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey is probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the last year he ever will.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John refunding everyone’s money, I assume.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know and I wouldn’t have to thank you. Wow, email John. But no, anyway, crap,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I totally lost my train of thought. And now we’re doing it live.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, and I would imagine that, I mean, so what Apple did today, to recap for people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco listening in the far future, is for, I believe, the first time ever, because it’s only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been necessary for the last, I don’t know, five years or so, but for the first time, Apple announced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco WWDC and its dates and its availability before the tickets were actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco available to buy. And so they’ve said basically, buy the tickets tomorrow at this time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so it solves a lot of problems. In previous years, like last year,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two years ago, tickets sold out in about 12 hours. Last year, tickets sold out in about two hours.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And last year, they, you know, the best time to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco release a press release in the PR industry is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about 830 in the morning. So Apple tends to ship out all their press releases

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and their new product announcements and they tend to lift embargoes at like 831 a.m. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco generally you want to do this not on Monday if you can help it because there’s a lot of competition from things that built up over the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco weekend on Monday for coverage so you don’t want to compete with that. You also want to do it on Friday because on Friday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re about to go into the weekend a lot of people aren’t paying attention and there’s not going to be a lot of time to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco announce for people to write up reactions and they’re going to have the weekend and then they’ll forget about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So generally you want to do it early in the week but not Monday. So things are usually announced on Tuesdays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or Wednesdays. So it was pretty easy to predict that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the announcement of this conference was probably going to happen again just like it did the year before before,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably going to happen again at a few minutes after 830 in the morning on a Tuesday or Wednesday.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And sure enough, it did. And it did it right after the day after the earnings call. And there’s…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know the details of this. There’s the SEC quiet period guidelines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m not qualified, and neither are you guys, as far as I know. None of us are qualified

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to talk about whether Apple is required to stay silent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John It sounds like they’re not required. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not even an SEC thing. It’s just something that people do. It’s like a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco guideline

⏹️ ▶️ John or a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco practice.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a de facto thing as far as I know. I don’t even think the SEC recommends is just what everybody does. And once everybody

⏹️ ▶️ John does it, by not doing it, you would stick out. But I don’t think the SEC tells you that you should or even recommends

⏹️ ▶️ John that you do.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but it’s kind of, it’s almost requisite. You’re right. It’s not required, but it’s almost requisite. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my dad actually works for investor relations for a really, really big company. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I know. So he’s qualified

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So he would be qualified, and he’s been doing this for many, many years, including the time I lived

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with him when I was in high school and whatnot. And my understanding is that if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you say anything shortly before an earnings announcement, it could reasonably

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be construed to affect the result of those earnings. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that would be releasing insider information before the company has released their earnings.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And thus, the logical thing to do is for all these companies to just shut the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crap up for like two or three weeks. I don’t remember how long it is, but some duration of time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right before earnings. So this way, there are no slip-ups. And so to your point, Marco, it seems reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that even though WWDC on the surface doesn’t seem like it would affect the stock price

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or anything like that, for the last couple of years, it’s been announced the day after their earnings announcement.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right and so it was it was fairly easy to predict that the announcement was going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happen this morning, but Nobody was predicting and I heard a few rumors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think a few other people did too But nobody was really predicting that this would happen where the announcement

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was indeed at that predicted time But the the on sale date of the tickets is gonna be tomorrow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it solves a lot of problems one of the problems with last year’s that people complain about a lot is Because it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was 830 in the morning Eastern It really screwed the Pacific Coast because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by the time they all woke up it was sold out. So it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was kind of rough on on people in the Pacific time zone and then of course all time isn’t around the world

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too you know if if if 830 a.m. Eastern which is GMT minus 5 is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the middle of the night for you and your time zone you’re kind of screwed. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was a really good way to do it I think you know people were speculating maybe they would have a lottery in I mean, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually very glad they don’t have that because I know I would lose it because I always lose drawings and raffles and things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You and me both. Yeah, so So, you know, I I’m glad there’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lottery thing or at least at least they aren’t all lottery sales, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, you’re glad now. Will you be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John glad?

⏹️ ▶️ John Lottery is terrible because you like you want some system that is it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not you don’t want it to be random You want some system that has some kind of merit-based selection

⏹️ ▶️ John process, even if that merit is who wants it the most, who is willing

⏹️ ▶️ John to wake up in the middle of the night, who is willing to set up little things to monitor. Maybe that’s not the best way to do it,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that’s the way anything in life is. Who wants it the most? And if those people get it first and

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re going to complain, no, Farrah, I don’t want to stay up in the middle of the night. Well, I guess you don’t want it as much as that other person wants

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco to go there.

⏹️ ▶️ John That is so much better than random, because then you and your friends can band together be idiots

⏹️ ▶️ John and stay up in the middle of the night on the other side of the world and get tickets and you can all go together whereas if it’s a lottery maybe you get to

⏹️ ▶️ John go but your two friends don’t and then you have a worse experience and it’s just stupid

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right so we don’t know yet you know we will know in less than 24 hours

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whether the three of us are going or not or whether some subset of us are going but yeah the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem is like you know the old system was it gave more room for people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who really really cared about it to have an advantage because we would be predicting the times and we would be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco waking up early every day in April, basically. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we would be the ones setting up monitoring systems and hammering the page to see when it changes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, certainly, now what they’ve done is made it so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you don’t have to be paying that much attention to have a chance at it. So, it is more fair

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the sense that it will give way more people who are interested in going a chance at getting tickets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but at the expense of crazy nerds like us who wait somebody yelled at us for us what say nerds crazy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco geeks like us

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey who really want it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco badly yeah some guy on Twitter I don’t know I don’t I don’t I don’t agree with him but okay

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re gonna keep saying nerds okay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think you’re qualified to to set the word so anyway we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know nerds like us are now at a slight disadvantage that there’s gonna be way more competition from people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who care a little bit less about it, or who would have otherwise been awake at that time anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So we’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John see what happens. All

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re doing—the only reason it’s slightly worse for us is that it brought

⏹️ ▶️ John a few more people into the fold. People who really do want to go, but their

⏹️ ▶️ John alerting thing didn’t work, or they were asleep but they didn’t hear their phone go off. Those people who kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of unfairly got screwed last year, they are now competing with us. But I think that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John reasonable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s more than that though because when I went two years ago, when I went in 2011, my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then employer, who I don’t work for anymore, my then employer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was probably going to fund my trip. And when the tickets went

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on sale, I needed to go get final approval. Marco, you’ve spoken about this at some point or another in the past. I needed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to go get final approval from my boss in order to spend a whole bunch of money and get it reimbursed. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now all those people who are in that situation, they’ve done that today.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So and the point I was going to make earlier when I lost my train of thought is I thought that the gentleman who did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the pay to jump the line alert system said he had like 20,000 people in his alert

⏹️ ▶️ Casey queue. And there is something to the order of from our friends in the chat room, 5,000 tickets that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you can buy. And so even if it’s the same system that handles millions

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of iPhone orders when they are bringing Brand new you’re still talking about a whole

⏹️ ▶️ Casey crud load of people trying to buy for 5,000 seats And that’s just I’m really scared.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s not gonna end well for me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah That’s actually that’s a bigger ratio than I would have expected because you got to figure like not Everybody who wants to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco buy a ticket even sign up for that service. You know, there’s probably some percentage of them who did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, the good thing is that this year Apple says they’re going to release the videos during the conference

⏹️ ▶️ John So they won’t be live streamed I assume, but maybe you can figure the day after or something.

⏹️ ▶️ John And also, they don’t do that idiotic thing where the only people who get the videos were the people who actually attended

⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC, which was incredibly stupid. So now, if you were just a paid developer, they just say a registered

⏹️ ▶️ John developer, I assume they mean a paid developer for either iOS or the Mac, and

⏹️ ▶️ John you want to see WWDC sessions, I assume that while WWDC is going on,

⏹️ ▶️ John during that week, they will slowly be doling out downloads, you know, the same way they always do on the iTunes, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, what is it? It’s not iTunes University, but anyway, the place where you can download

⏹️ ▶️ John videos through iTunes of WWDC, only they’ll come out as WWDC happens, instead of

⏹️ ▶️ John having to wait a week or two weeks, which even a week or two weeks isn’t a big deal, but like this take some of the sting out

⏹️ ▶️ John and hopefully will discourage people. I try to discourage people on Twitter. Discourage people from it. It’s expensive. You have to,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, if you don’t live in the area, you have to, you know, buy a hotel for a week

⏹️ ▶️ John and you have to buy the ticket, which is not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco cheap. It ends up being like $3,000.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a lot of money. So stay home and you get almost all of the experience from home.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just watch the videos. And that like if I don’t get a ticket, it’s not going to be the end of the world for me because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John will be what I do. I may still have have to take a week off from work but that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so you would take a week off of work to sit in your house and watch these videos

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah and like and the thing about that is you would think that that would work out fine but the main problem is that the

⏹️ ▶️ John videos would end up being released well I don’t know I don’t know how much kind of lag there but like the amount of time

⏹️ ▶️ John I can dedicate to watch WWDC videos is much smaller because gonna get kids out of the house in the morning and the kids come home

⏹️ ▶️ John from school I mean

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you know when you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John a WWDC, you can just dedicate your heads down whole life to just

⏹️ ▶️ John WWDC.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, so far, every year that I’ve gone, I’ve gone for I think four years now, something like that, every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year there have been a few sessions where they were double booked against something else I wanted to go to. So I made a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco note and I told myself, I’m gonna go and watch this video when it comes out of this other one that I’m not gonna see now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, and did you ever actually do that? I never do.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I might have watched like two or three videos after the fact total, and usually that was only because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was I was about to or already coding against some API that the videos were about. I wanted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to look something up or go back to a video of a session I already did see live to remember like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah, how did they do this one thing? Like the scroll view session, I always go back to that because it’s full of crazy good stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And there’s times where I’ll go back for reference purposes, but I’m never going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make two hours and sit down and watch a couple of these things.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve got the WWDC 2003 DVD set to my right.

⏹️ ▶️ John I kept it because it came in a metal box. I don’t know if people remember that. And the first WWDC I went to was two years

⏹️ ▶️ John ago, so I was never actually able to go, but I either knew people who went or knew people who could have gone,

⏹️ ▶️ John but got the DVD set and said as part of the… Do you remember, Marco, were you, I guess you probably weren’t around when they

⏹️ ▶️ John had the, gonna get the name wrong. I think it was, there was different ADC levels. It was Select

⏹️ ▶️ John and Premiere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I came in right as that was about to end, So I did see it and it was like 500, 1000, and 3000,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something like that. I think it was just, Select was 500 and

⏹️ ▶️ John Premiere, I think it was Premiere, someone in the chat

⏹️ ▶️ John room can correct me, and that was like four digits, I don’t remember what it was, but what you got was like one WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ John ticket and you got the DVDs and you got like, it was, you got lots of stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so anyway, I got the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco DVDs through that. And you got a big hardware discount.

⏹️ ▶️ John And yeah, I know, and a big, that’s the whole reason we used to do these things,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco friends and I. Right, because you’d get like 400 bucks off.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we’d go in together and have a bunch of different hardware discounts and that was the way I bought all our Macs was the hardware discounts.

⏹️ ▶️ John But anyway, I had that DVD set and those were back in the days when I would get those DVD sets and I would watch

⏹️ ▶️ John every single session. Just every single one. I’d go through them in order. And these

⏹️ ▶️ John days when I actually attend, I don’t obviously do that because a lot of them I was there for so I don’t have to watch them again.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I will go back and look at the ones that I didn’t see. The only thing I’ll start skipping now is like, now that

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like, there’s a track on like web development. I did watch a couple of those from last year. But I’m not going

⏹️ ▶️ John to watch those. And even some of the iOS ones I’ll skip because I’m mostly in there for the Mac OS X stuff. But it used to

⏹️ ▶️ John be when it was just Mac and there wasn’t a track about how to do CSS or

⏹️ ▶️ John the high DPI images or other esoteric things that may not really be

⏹️ ▶️ John in Apple’s wheelhouse and you could just learn about or may have already learned about otherwise. I would just watch every single session. And that

⏹️ ▶️ John sounds boring, but I find maybe as I’m getting older, I

⏹️ ▶️ John have less time for that because the kids take a lot of time and everything, but I used to just—that’s the way I would consume

⏹️ ▶️ John things. When I was getting into a hobby or something, I would read everything there was to read about that hobby. When I was

⏹️ ▶️ John learning Unix, I just bought O’Reilly books and just read them from cover to cover.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s— And today you read toaster manuals of toasters you don’t own.

⏹️ ▶️ John Those are much shorter. I read Unix Power Tools twice. I remember going to getting the end of that and going back to the beginning and reading

⏹️ ▶️ John through it again. That’s not a small book.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, but you make an interesting point, Marco, and I know you said that jokingly, but I really shouldn’t say this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on the show. Well, actually, it will come out after the fact, so it doesn’t matter. But part of the draw of WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the experiences you have outside of the sessions, and the sessions are unbelievable. In my two years of going to WWDC,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve only skipped three or four slots. Some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the best experiences I’ve had, though, are networking with people. For example, I met David Smith there, and David

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just pointed out in the chat room that the Gentleman whose first name I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know how to pronounce but his surname is Prendeville who ran the the WWDC

⏹️ ▶️ Casey alert thing Apparently he only had 600 subscribers, which is a lot better than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the 20,000. I apparently invented out of thin air.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So David Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that maybe the doomsday scenario isn’t quite so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco bad

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I remember I think that’s 20,000 number I remember last year when I don’t know if they did it did the WBC

⏹️ ▶️ Marco alerts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Twitter thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was oversubscribed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that the the WBC alerts Twitter thing had something like 20,000. I forget the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exact number But it was it was in that range, you know, and and so

⏹️ ▶️ John I thought it was eight Thousands have good memory.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John it was more than the tickets were available

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like I think last year they sold something like 5,500 tickets and And and they’ve they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been at that number pretty comfortably or near that number pretty comfortably for enough time that we can be pretty sure that that’s roughly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what they think the maximum should be and and certainly like going there for the last few years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can see in Moscone it is packed full and it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so hard like it’s just a line after a line after a line like you got of a session if you want to get a popular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco session if you want to get in there even you know you have to get there like a half hour before it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco starts and stand in some long line

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey which means you still might not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John get it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right I mean it’s it’s really quite difficult to to maneuver around the conference

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the number they have now. They certainly can’t sell more tickets and keep it in that venue.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s still not the PAX level of waiting because I don’t I find that you don’t usually have to actually

⏹️ ▶️ John skip the previous session. You’ll just get a crappier seat whereas with PAX you have to skip the previous two sessions

⏹️ ▶️ John to get in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco line.

⏹️ ▶️ John The only thing you have to skip sessions for I think is if you want to get in the lunch session like the JJ Abrams one I was in line for that for like an

⏹️ ▶️ John hour and a half.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right. See I always miss the crazy good Friday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John lunch session

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I always have to fly out at like 1 p.m. Yep

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco same

⏹️ ▶️ John here. Why do you do that to yourself. I book my tickets. I hate traveling.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I need an

⏹️ ▶️ John entire day to prepare my mind and body for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco travel. So you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stay on the flight a night?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey always. Oh, see, I don’t want to stay the extra night, and I, for the love of all that’s good and holy, I do not want to do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a red eye.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I never do a red eye, but I want all my flights to be at noon. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey not always

⏹️ ▶️ John possible, but that’s what I’m shooting for. The entire day is just dedicated to travel, I don’t want to wake up early

⏹️ ▶️ John in the morning.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So David Smith just put in the chat room, God, he’s my best friend. He just said that the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey original WWDC alerts, this is the unpaid, completely free one, was about $9,000. Look

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John win.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John actually

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey pretty promising. Showcase showdown.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Without going over. Does that mean you won both of the showcases then?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, it wasn’t within $100. Oh, darn. Our second sponsor for the show this week is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco another new sponsor. It is Hover. Hover is a simple domain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco registrar. Now, I love these are both geek sponsors that we have this week. It’s awesome. Of course, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco geek show. Now let me tell you, you know, Hover sent me some bullet points and I can read some of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them here and there, but the fact is they know. I basically told them,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, they asked, you know, do you have enough to read for the ad and I said, yes, because I’m a Hover

⏹️ ▶️ Marco customer and I’ve previously used other domain registrars, period. That was it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s really hard to find anybody who likes their domain registrar a lot. And the reason why is because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco generally a terrible business. It’s full of weird, just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco constant commodity bargain basement pricing followed by various,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oftentimes really sleazy ways to make additional money for the registrar on top of that. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I’m not gonna name names here because who cares, but you all know the other registrars I’m talking about. like there was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one not the elephant one but there’s there was one that if you search for a name just to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if it was available they would register it for like they would they would hold it for like two weeks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so if you still wanted that name you had to go through them and pay their extra high price for it like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the domain right first do sleazy stuff like that all the time crazy upselling tactics it’s terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hover is clean it’s simple and it’s a powerful domain name buying a management

⏹️ ▶️ Marco site it is really great run by the people this this audience will know this member two cows

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the ultimate collection of Windows shareware I believe that’s what it stood for right is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t remember what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco it’s easy yeah I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you should know oh I remember

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about

⏹️ ▶️ John Windows

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco shareware you would do cows though

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right okay so they’ve been around forever it says somewhere here since 94 been around since 94 that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the year I got my first computer for reference but they they’ve been around forever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’ve been running this site called hover is fantastic go to slash ATP

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s slash ATP and that will get you a discount off their prices I think it’s something like 10% it’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great you know they don’t hide functionality behind weird things to make it hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to find they don’t like they don’t heavy-handedly upsell you or cross

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sell you to various other crap they sell it’s just really simple it is what you’d expect a domain registrar to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you designed it like and if you hire a designer if you’re me. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go check out Hover. I really can’t recommend it enough. I’ve been with a lot of domain registrars

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over the years. I’ve been registering domains since like 2000.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It takes a lot for me to move because usually it’s the kind of thing where like, you know, you let things auto renew every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco year because it works and it’s not getting in your way until you go try to do something. Like if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you go try to change a DNS record, do you to go use MailRoute or something like that. Like, you go try to make a DNS entry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or buy a new domain or edit one of your old domains. With most registrars, you just wanna pull your teeth out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is so, it’s just such a terrible experience using their control panels and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But then you think, oh, I’ll move someday, and then you close it and you forget. And every time you go in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there, you wanna blow up the world, but there’s not that pushing need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because you don’t really know, moving things suck, so you don’t really wanna know. Hover actually offers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a moving service. It’s pretty awesome. Like, and you know, they will, you can like talk to somebody on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone, they’ll move stuff for you. It’s pretty great. I know I’m all over the place with this read, but it’s hard with,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, my first read of Hover. I’ve been using this company for, I think over a year now. Yeah, actually, it’s all my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff’s been renewing recently, so it’s been over a year. And it’s just a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great site. Go register your domains at Hover. Go to slash ATP,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you’ll credit us, and they’ll know you came from here. They’ll sponsor our show more in the future,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they’ll be even more awesome. So thank you very much to Hover for sponsoring ATP.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So before we leave the WWDC topic, are either of you two gentlemen going to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go if you don’t get a ticket? Like John, you said in all likelihood you’ll probably take off

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the time, but you’ll probably stay at home.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I can’t justify going if I don’t. Because what would I do for the week? Although,

⏹️ ▶️ John like you said, one of the reasons that I am actually going is that I do have interactions with people outside

⏹️ ▶️ John the sessions. But it’s mostly so that I can have a dedicated

⏹️ ▶️ John time where there’s no distractions and no other demands on my time. I’m just there

⏹️ ▶️ John to attend sessions. And secondarily, at a close second, is if after a session

⏹️ ▶️ John is over, I just need one thing clarified and it’s not clear from the notes, the guy who gave the presentation

⏹️ ▶️ John is at the front of the room and I can go ask him. And then, you know, third is the

⏹️ ▶️ John thing that everyone says, oh, all the people you meet outside and everything like, and that’s definitely true as well, but like from,

⏹️ ▶️ John for business purposes, I guess, for like research purposes, it depends on who I’m meeting with, I

⏹️ ▶️ John guess. If I’m meeting with big fancy people in super secret,

⏹️ ▶️ John then yeah, I get a lot of value out of those meetings. But I can’t bank on that. I can’t guarantee that I’m going to have a private meeting

⏹️ ▶️ John with Tim Cook when I’m there. So I wouldn’t go there with no

⏹️ ▶️ John ticket, hoping that I’ll just happen to catch Craig Federighi on the steps

⏹️ ▶️ John of Moscone and bend his ear for 15 minutes because that’s probably not going to happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John More importantly, how could I justify it as a business expense for

⏹️ ▶️ John the purpose of writing my review if I don’t even have a ticket? So that’s kind of bogus. So

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John if I don’t get a ticket and if I can’t finagle a ticket through whatever crazy please somebody

⏹️ ▶️ John out there from Apple help me, love me type of system, then I’ll just stay at home and watch the videos. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know what I would do. Hopefully we won’t have to think about this because we’ll get tickets, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I don’t get a ticket, I might still, see, I would have a higher

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chance of going based on what you just said. I’d be more likely to go than you, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say right now, yes, I’m definitely going. I haven’t, I have a hotel reservation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s totally refundable, but I haven’t booked a plane yet because I’m not going to book

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a flight. I’ll pay the extra couple hundred bucks, whatever the price is raised to tomorrow, if I get the ticket,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rather than buy the plane ticket today and have a chance I don’t get a ticket tomorrow.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, we should tell everyone about that because I think that was a good three-way triumph of all of us having

⏹️ ▶️ John the wherewithal and guts to actually buy our hotel tickets a month ahead

⏹️ ▶️ John of time. Yeah, we bought them in March. Yeah, and I forget who initiated that,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you can always look at the schedule and buy ballpark and you kind of know, yeah, it’s probably going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John like this week. Every year that’s been the case where you could look at that. But it’s one thing to look at the schedule and

⏹️ ▶️ John know that. It’s another thing to actually pull the trigger and get the tickets. But like I forget who pointed out, but

⏹️ ▶️ John hotel tickets are refundable 24 hours ahead of time, so there’s no risk in doing it, except if it’s some

⏹️ ▶️ John sort of hotel that has an annoying website that makes refunds annoying or you don’t have any confidence that they’re going to correctly

⏹️ ▶️ John process it and they’re going to charge you anyway, even though you don’t show up. So if you have a good hotel with a reasonable website,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s worth doing. So hey, we had our hotel reservations a month in advance, and

⏹️ ▶️ John they were actually cheaper than even the Apple special where we’re reserving a block of

⏹️ ▶️ John rooms for you rates for the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey same place.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and so to answer the question I asked of the two of you, I don’t know what I’m going to do,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if and when I don’t get a ticket. I’ve already established I’ll go fetal for about three or four days. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a part of me thinks it’s worth going to network, it’s worth going to see people, to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the David Smiths and the Jim Dalrymples of the world, and certainly to see Marco or John or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whomever is out there. But I don’t know if I would go for the whole week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Our good friend David Smith, friend of the show David Smith, has said he’s going, and I believe he’s intending to go for the whole week.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know what I’m going to do, and I’m such a wimp and so indecisive, I can’t figure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out what I’m going to do. But maybe Marco and I, maybe we’ll commiserate, maybe we’ll celebrate, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ John What would you do the whole night? I guess the only advantage is that you could stay out all night, which is not my

⏹️ ▶️ John thing anyway. But if it’s your thing, you can do that and then sleep during the day instead of having to get up for a second. But

⏹️ ▶️ John even then, I guess if you just want to go and socialize with people. But

⏹️ ▶️ John you wouldn’t be getting much done from a business perspective unless you’re going

⏹️ ▶️ John there to try to like, I need a partner for my new venture. Or I’m trying to recruit

⏹️ ▶️ John a designer to help me and I want to talk to people and meet people. Maybe I don’t know, I guess I am the wrong person

⏹️ ▶️ John to ask about what kind of business value you can get out of social interactions. But,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, I, unless you have money falling out of your ears and you don’t have any, because that’s a

⏹️ ▶️ John week of vacation time if you have a job and this is not part of your job, you know, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John what else could you use that week for? What else could you use that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey thousand,

⏹️ ▶️ John really thousands of dollars for? You know, it’s, it’s a tough call.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, you’re absolutely right. But if now this isn’t an oranges to oranges

⏹️ ▶️ Casey comparison, but if I wasn’t at WWDC, what was it? 2011, then firstly, I wouldn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey met you. And secondly, I wouldn’t have been there with Marco and Merlin and a friend of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mine, Eric Scherter to buy you a toaster. So there’s something to be said for these social interactions.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Clearly

⏹️ ▶️ John important. That was one day, though. Like I know a lot of people who aren’t, if they say, if I don’t get tickets, I’ll go, but not for the whole week.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that makes sense to me because you want to be there for like the keynote excitement and the few, the framing. You’ll arrange

⏹️ ▶️ John with people like, oh, we should go out tonight, and then the other group of friends should go out the next night. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John you see the few people you’re going to see, and then you’re out of there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s why I’m saying maybe I wouldn’t go for a whole week. And I’m making this up. And maybe I’d go arrive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sunday, stay there Monday, Tuesday, and fly back Wednesday or something like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I get tired just thinking about that. Once again, introvert versus extrovert.

⏹️ ▶️ John The thought of seeing all these wonderful people who you love make you feel

⏹️ ▶️ John exhausted, you may be an introvert.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I’m excited. I really hope, because like, yeah, I mean, the more I think about it, the more I think, like if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t have a ticket, I would probably still go. But I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey think it would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suck. Because most conferences, like South by Southwest is a joke.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, like the sessions in South by Southwest are terrible. They’re mostly panels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where people just read Twitter and BS their way through. And it’s just, as an audience member,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s pretty hard. It’s pretty unusual to be in a South by Southwest session that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worth your time. They do exist, but they’re certainly the minority.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But that conference is all about drinking and partying and socializing. And so if you’re going to South by Southwest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco without a ticket, you’ll still get almost all of the value of that conference. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco WWDC, for me at least, is not that way. does have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco drinking and partying but for me that the great value of that conference is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the sessions and and even the socializing that happens in Moscone like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I get usually that’s a good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey point

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually I get more socializing done in like the chair areas of Moscone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between sessions or like if there’s one schedule gap or nothing’s really that great I’ll go sit down and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know answer email and stuff and talk to people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John there

⏹️ ▶️ John and you want to know why because you can actually hear people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, exactly. Like the social environment of yelling at a bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco while everyone’s drunk is really not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that great. You’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not gonna get the best development advice from your favorite developer when it’s had three drinks in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco them. Maybe you’ll get

⏹️ ▶️ John the best juicy tips and rumors and you’ll have the best trash-talking, but like that’s the thing. If you come out of a session,

⏹️ ▶️ John like you know for some session that is about scroll views and something, and you’re you know you’re sitting next to someone

⏹️ ▶️ John who you want to talk to or you see someone in three rows away, when you come out of the session, that’s the perfect opportunity

⏹️ ▶️ John to discuss scroll view performance with a developer who you’re lucky enough to meet

⏹️ ▶️ John in real life, because that’s in the front of their mind. Whereas if you come up to them in a bar later and want to discuss scroll view performance,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re going to be like, it’s not the time for that now, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey right, exactly the time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for beer.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and trash talking whoever you want to trash talk at that time and doing, you know, complaining about Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John or, you know, app review or whatever, all the other, there’s plenty of other things you can do as well. But there is something to be said for like,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like an academic type context where you’re learning about your craft and your business and

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s valuable and like you know I’m a lot of people ask me like why I go because I’m not developing an application

⏹️ ▶️ John but you know I’d go for my review obviously but if if you’re actually making an application I meet

⏹️ ▶️ John so many developers both iOS and the Mac who are like this one session has made this entire

⏹️ ▶️ John thing worth it for me because now oh my god I can’t wait to I can’t wait to grab my laptop run back down to

⏹️ ▶️ John a chair and implement this thing that they just showed because it’s going to make my life so much easier. And I never realized that

⏹️ ▶️ John it was so much better way to do this. You know what I mean? And as long as it’s not an iCloud session, that usually turns out pretty

⏹️ ▶️ John well for that developer.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so I’m sorry, I prolonged the WWDC talk for a long time. I feel like we’re probably good

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here. And so you’ll see via Twitter, whether or not any of the three of us got tickets.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’m sure if if I don’t, I’ll be complaining and moaning like a like a baby for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey weeks. So let’s hope for the good of the nation and the world

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I actually scored.

⏹️ ▶️ John If we don’t get tickets, Casey, we’ll just sit in a Google Hangout together and stare at QuickTime videos synchronized.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You might be joking. I’m all in.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s like that scene when

⏹️ ▶️ John Harry and Sally will have the split screen. We’ll both watch the same session at the same time while laying in bed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Again, you think you might be joking, but I’m not. I’m there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The funny thing is it would actually be fairly productive of us to just like arrange like an east coast meetup

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for like one week in August where we all just get together and watch the videos back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to back.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s true. Or go to the Arment compound. There you go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s true. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John can

⏹️ ▶️ John stay in the guest houses, right, Mark? Oh, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah. On the estate.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Something like that. The crummy thing is it’s actually, Marco is in the middle of the three of us, but what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are you, like two or three hours from John and eight from me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, middle is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Jenner, is it? I’m way closer to John than you. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s your fault for living down

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, but

⏹️ ▶️ John you have 70 mile per hour speed limit roads in your state, so.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, I think that’s just West, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, no, it’s here, too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco In full Virginia? Real

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Virginia? In the real Virginia, email Marco. But also consider

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco that we’re not a state. Do you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think anybody in West Virginia is listening to this podcast right now?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Probably not. I mean, let’s be realistic here.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But also consider we are not a state, we’re a commonwealth. I believe like Massachusetts, if I’m not mistaken.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco what the difference is either.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s just so the residents can say that to people.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Seriously, so we can be obnoxious like that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the hipsters of, I don’t know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You and your states.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. We were commonwealths before we were even states. Anyway, all right, what else we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talk about tonight, or are we done?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I think we have, we can do like another 15 minutes or so if you want.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Do you think… Do you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey want to talk about earnings, or do you want to talk about something else?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think the earnings thing has a couple of interesting things about it but not a whole lot. First of all,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m glad that the stock price didn’t totally just plummet. It seems to have stayed roughly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same, which is itself an embarrassing level. But I was expecting doom here because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we’ve talked about in the past and I’ve blogged a lot about how I think Apple is kind of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuck in this this rush of extremely negative

⏹️ ▶️ Marco momentum in the public eye, and especially in the press. But I hear it from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco regular people, too, so it’s certainly getting out there. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have to think, people are going to be crapping on Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco publicly and expressing doom and peasantism about the company and its products and its future.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was thinking that would be a year or two long cycle. And I was thinking also, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not investment advice because none of us are qualified, but one of the reasons why I sold all my Apple shares

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back, whenever it was, January, February, I sold them at like $460,000 something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And one of the reasons why, oh, it was like soon after the holiday earnings call,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the stock took a dive on that call. And I realized, holiday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco earnings are great usually, and they were. It’s always the highest quarter of the year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I figure that’s probably the best news they’re going to announce for a long time, possibly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the whole year, at least as far as the market is concerned. And so I figure if the stock took

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a dive on what was probably their best news day of the year, I don’t think I want to hold it for the rest of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the year. And so far, that’s proven to be a fairly good theory. It’s panned out. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know, with this I was thinking like the quarter after holiday earnings is always

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of soft and we’d be hearing all these rumors about how they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were having way lower demand than expected and they were possibly having like oversupply of components

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I mean it sounded bad like leading up to this. The rumors were pretty bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then they released the earnings and they’re actually pretty decent and you know it’s not like the holiday quarter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but they beat their own guidance, as they usually do, and even Wall Street

⏹️ ▶️ Marco didn’t seem disappointed by it.

⏹️ ▶️ John This was supposed to be the different quarter where they were saying, we’re not going to give you the guidance that we’re guaranteed to beat. This time we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John giving you a range and we say we’re going to fall within that range. And

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco they fell just above it, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, right. And the fact that they were still out of that range would be making me think, if I was an analyst, like, all right,

⏹️ ▶️ John we’re onto your game now. You still gave us an estimate that you knew you could beat, but like, oh, it could be Maybe they

⏹️ ▶️ John just had better things happen. But it was just kind of like a wash. But the thing about

⏹️ ▶️ John that idea that Apple is like doom and gloom about Apple, I feel like the entire

⏹️ ▶️ John industry in some respects is in not so much doom and gloom or a death spiral, but in a holding pattern. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John we notice Apple in these things. But take a look at, have you been reading the Samsung Galaxy S4 reviews?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, they’re really mediocre.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right. And so it’s the same. The attitude is basically from consumers and from the market. Who cares

⏹️ ▶️ John about the market? But from consumers, like, what have you done for me lately? Exactly. iPhone, iPad, and even like Samsung,

⏹️ ▶️ John the shining star. Uh-oh, Apple’s in the doldrums. Samsung’s, no, the same thing with Samsung. What have you done for me lately?

⏹️ ▶️ John Samsung, is the Galaxy S3, the Galaxy S4, is the S4 so much better than the S3? And

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re like, oh, I guess it’s another Samsung Galaxy phone, and it’s got a bunch

⏹️ ▶️ John of things in it, but they’re not all that awesome. And like, they’re in a world all in a halting pattern, because everyone’s waiting

⏹️ ▶️ John for, OK, what’s the next big thing? You know, that’s why everyone keeps talking about stupid iWatch, because everyone has have something to be

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about. And I feel like the entire tech industry is in that holding pattern to say,

⏹️ ▶️ John what’s going to be the next breakout thing? Even if the next breakout thing is, oh my god, iPad sales are doing a hockey

⏹️ ▶️ John stick and they’re going out of control, and suddenly people are excited about Apple again and it’s in the news again, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John That could be it too, but everybody is in it. Like, there’s no company that’s like, well, Apple’s just kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ John boring and not really growing like it used to, but Samsung has got an exciting, no, Samsung’s just got another phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so, you know, Apple’s going to have another phone and Samsung’s going to have another phone? Do you think Samsung is going to come

⏹️ ▶️ John out with its Galaxy Watch? Is that going to be the exciting thing? So everybody is just kind of like,

⏹️ ▶️ John all right. And now, yeah, Apple was ridiculously punished for burning so brightly

⏹️ ▶️ John before. And now it’s like, all right, well, you’ll be punished by the market. And you have to go into the corner and stay there, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s not as if there is someone else sweeping past them to be the new darling of the industry that everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John has pinning their hopes and dreams on whose stock price is going up 500x over the course of two years.

⏹️ ▶️ John There is no equivalent of that, so everyone is just kind of sitting there cross-armed, saying, all right, what have

⏹️ ▶️ John you done for me lately? And it could be true that this entire year goes by, and no one does anything for those

⏹️ ▶️ John customers with their hands folded. But I haven’t listened to the audio of the earning call yet, but I read some transcripts, and I think Tim

⏹️ ▶️ John Cook was making some feints in that direction of like, we might have some –

⏹️ ▶️ John entering new categories, and we’re not going to give you any timelines.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, he did give a timeline. He basically said – I mean, in a different comment. what he basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said was we’re gonna be releasing new stuff this fall and next year

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so the implication was don’t expect much between now and this fall

⏹️ ▶️ John well I

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco mean

⏹️ ▶️ John but all he would say is we will have new stuff in the fall of course they’ll have new stuff in the fall I mean like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey obviously and if he’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not gonna be any more specific than new stuff it could be like oh we rev the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco well but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but he was firm enough on that though that I think what that means is all those rumors about there being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an iPhone 5s in the spring that’s all crap You know, that’s probably not going to happen. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think his comments made it very clear. And I think Gruber said, too, it was kind of like setting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expectations for what’s going to be announced between now and WWDC.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Don’t expect a whole lot. And what was interesting also is that the press release this morning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for WWDC confirmed with a quote from Phil that at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco WWDC we will have new versions of iOS and macOS in developers’ hands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so that’s and that he came out right and said that so we’re gonna see

⏹️ ▶️ John 10 did anyone doubt that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco well it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey gonna say we’ve heard rumors at 10 9 was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being delayed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John because being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco delayed

⏹️ ▶️ John but you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco gonna have well you know

⏹️ ▶️ John some version of it

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey gonna have right GM if it’s GM to be like oh and iOS 5

⏹️ ▶️ John was released at WWC and the thing didn’t work that well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John right so it wasn’t you know, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s the one I put on my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey No, it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Gruber will never let me forget that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think I also put I was five on my phone. It was a mistake.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John terrible. 10

⏹️ ▶️ Casey nine. If 10 nine is GM at WWDC and you don’t get a ticket, john and I don’t get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a ticket. Does that mean we don’t hang out in a we don’t get on a Google Hangout together? Because you’re gonna be too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey busy?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco No,

⏹️ ▶️ John I still would still have to watch all the video. I don’t know what the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hell I’d do.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the problem. If that happened, all the real tech

⏹️ ▶️ John sites with the people who write every day as their job would have 10.9 reviews up in

⏹️ ▶️ John a day or two. And I would not. It would be like months and months. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it wouldn’t be like, for me taking three months to write something,

⏹️ ▶️ John it isn’t three months better than someone who wrote theirs in two days. It’s just not. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John all fine if I take my three months before the release And all the reviews arrive on release date. You don’t care how long it took me,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But I don’t think anyone would want to wait for the amount

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time it would take me. Oh, you sell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco yourself short. I wonder

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how long I’ll be able to spend on my review of your review.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Should I write a review of your review of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco his review?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that might have been my highest traffic post of 2012. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John you were on my coattails, I know. Yeah. I was, obviously. And now you have

⏹️ ▶️ John more Google juice than my actual review, but you’re hit number two.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John exactly. They were just like of all the many people who linked to it, you are the second hit.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Wait,

⏹️ ▶️ John I am? Really?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, I think so.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just Google for Syracuse Mountain Lion.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, that’s hilarious.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco You were

⏹️ ▶️ John the number one hit for a while. Sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How mad did that make you, John Syracuse?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco think because for me it was in the title.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Was it? Or no, yours was in the title too. Oh no, well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John kind of. No, my name’s not in the title.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, yeah, your name is not in the title. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John well, I guess if you did Ars Technica

⏹️ ▶️ John Mountain Lion, you wouldn’t be as highly ranked. Oh, that’s hilarious. Rest assured that people are not having trouble finding

⏹️ ▶️ John my review.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. That’s fantastic. All right, so anything else about earnings, or is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? Well, and it’s worth thinking about, too. Like, you know, people who were expecting things earlier than that, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new laptops or anything, look at Intel’s roadmap for what they would put into

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptops, or Mac Pros, or iMacs. And it looks like everything is basically waiting on Haswell right now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But as far as I know, Haswell’s not really coming out until third quarter,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Well, I mean, you know the Apple Intel magic of them getting stuff, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John not even ahead so much, just like the first day of the quarter they could have

⏹️ ▶️ John it. And they’re like, well, it’s not really ahead of schedule. It’s exactly when we said it would be. Yeah, but… We’ve given Apple preferential treatment

⏹️ ▶️ John and they were able to arrange it so they can have their stuff out exactly as the stuff arrives. And the Xeons are still… It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the Ivy Bridge Xeons, right? It’s not even…

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah right now we’re still the the current the the e5 series and the e3 series

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is sandy bridge EP but then they there’s an e3 v2 line

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I just find out when I was looking at servers a couple days ago I totally missed this it’s basically

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Ivy Bridge EP version but it’s just single processor there’s no there’s no dual processor version so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s no e5 line as far as I could

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John tell

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right yeah well honestly like my favorite CPU

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right now for servers The best bang for buck that I can get on a server right now is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the E3-1270. I’m totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John on board with a single processor non-Xeon Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John replacement machine because if you can get it clocked higher than a Xeon, you can get it earlier than

⏹️ ▶️ John a Xeon, and it has other possible advantages, you know, in terms of packaging and power consumption. I

⏹️ ▶️ John would not turn my nose up at that. I would prefer a Xeon and all the other, you know, ECC RAM and all that

⏹️ ▶️ John crazy crap that we should not pay for but we do but like you know better

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll take what I can get you know I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh yeah I mean like well even like my current Mac Pro my you know quote new Mac Pro from 20 the 2010 generation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a single socket because the single socket CPU it’s the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 6x 3.33 gigahertz one and that for almost every type of workflow

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is faster than the dual socket ones because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the dual socket ones aren’t clocked that high.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not like the old days where if you had a single CPU that meant you had a single thread of execution. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it’s, you know, right. They all have

⏹️ ▶️ John like umpteen cores in them

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, you just have one

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco CPU. It basically just limits

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your RAM slots at this point. And, uh, and so like, you know, if, if they made an, if the next generation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of Mac pro only has one socket in, in any configuration, that actually wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be that bad because the single socket Xeons now are so good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that, you know, although, well, they do make a heck of a lot of profit on the bigger ones though,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t We’ll see I I certainly think that my next Mac Pro after

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this assuming it still uses Xeons It’s probably still gonna be a single socket one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I bet that’s gonna be true for a whole lot of buyers

⏹️ ▶️ John I would spring for the double if it wasn’t like add another CPU for $2,000 like if it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous like it was

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco it would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be it would be about it would be like at least 1,500 and it would be lower clocked I mean look at the price because that’s all that’s all Intel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really look at the prices now

⏹️ ▶️ John I’d have to think about it hard, because it’s not as if I’m, it’s not as if this is a value,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not as if I can calculate, oh, well, I don’t need this. You know I don’t need it. But like, if I buy

⏹️ ▶️ John a new machine every five years, damn it, I want it to be the big, beefy one. And I’ll just have to decide,

⏹️ ▶️ John do I think that really is the big, beefy one? Because, you know, like you said, it probably would be lower clocked. If they were to put a single core,

⏹️ ▶️ John they could crank it up. But there are too many variables. The point is, we just want something, even if it’s not called a Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, whatever it is, is something that’s not an iMac, something that’s not a laptop, something that’s not a Mac Mini.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And it’s really, really

⏹️ ▶️ John fast.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, that’s the thing. Didn’t Cook say last year that sometime during 2013 they would have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something that will make the Mac Pro customers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco happy?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes. Well, he said it was later next year. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John in late… Well, right. But we don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ John what the later applies to.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Is it later next year? But that certainly does correspond

⏹️ ▶️ Marco well to the next iteration of the Xeons.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and beyond that, I mean, if he just said in so many words that there’s not going to be anything

⏹️ ▶️ Casey until the fall. It sounds like he’s running out of time. Well, he, I shouldn’t say he, Apple is running

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of time.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think anyone, there’s like seven people waiting for the answer to that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey question. Yes, but all

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seven of you are very, very whiny.

⏹️ ▶️ John We are very whiny, we are very loud, but what he was actually referring to was like, you know, whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, again, I had to listen to the earning calls, but like, possibly entering a new product category,

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever that means, it means something more exciting than a new iPhone, iPad, or Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ John Even that didn’t produce enough excitement to cause any sort of market bump. It’s just like, alright, well, that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John we all expect. You’re right, Tim, that is what we’re waiting for, but we’re going to sit here with our arms folded until

⏹️ ▶️ John we get that thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco One thing that was also really interesting from the call was the number of iPads sold. This was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco crazy. Basically, they sold like 19 point something million iPads and that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more than they sold in the holiday quarter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s that

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense because if you look at all look at all a Simcoe Horace de Deus graphs

⏹️ ▶️ John The the eye if you look at all whenever he overlays them So you can just see like let’s just put each products

⏹️ ▶️ John beginning of each products introduction and pin them to the you know the zero on the the x-axis

⏹️ ▶️ John and you look at the slopes of the various curves like here’s how the iPad took off and here’s is how the Mac took off, and here is how the

⏹️ ▶️ John iPhone took off. The iPad always had the steepest slope. It was like, boy, it was small.

⏹️ ▶️ John The absolute values weren’t very high, but it’s like, boy, the iPad is taking off much steeper than the iPhone. The iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John took off much steeper than the iPod, and the Mac is just way back. It’s this gradual ramp up to nothing.

⏹️ ▶️ John So yeah, it’s not a surprise that the iPad continues to rocket up like that. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of like the wild card, which if you want to be optimistic about Apple, is

⏹️ ▶️ John where is the ceiling on iPad sales? Because it is so

⏹️ ▶️ John capable of replacing a PC for so many people, and will only become more capable in time,

⏹️ ▶️ John and they’ll keep driving the price down, and we’re just getting off the ground. Like we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John at the iPhone 3GS stage of the iPad right now. You know what I mean? Like we got the one,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then we got the one that’s faster and cooler, but it’s fatter, and now we got the mini, but we’re now waiting

⏹️ ▶️ John for the big one to shrink. Like, we are not even, once the iPad hits like the iPhone 4

⏹️ ▶️ John stage, and the iPhone 5 and beyond, I think there is tremendous sales

⏹️ ▶️ John potential for these things as PC replacements, basically. Not,

⏹️ ▶️ John you have this instead of a PC, but for people who never had a PC before, this will get them in the door.

⏹️ ▶️ John For people who do have a PC, they’re going to buy this as a companion and stop using their PC as much. And we’re nowhere close to the

⏹️ ▶️ John ceiling on that. is the phone market, where it’s like the competitors are locked in a deadly

⏹️ ▶️ John battle, and the number of non-smartphones is dwindling.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think they just crossed 50% smart non-smartphones and stuff like that. There is not this

⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous upside, where we’re like, oh, by this time next year, there will be 7x as many smartphones

⏹️ ▶️ John sold. That time is over. But that time is not over for the iPad. So there is. And

⏹️ ▶️ John the other thing is, the competitors in the tablet market are not making a dent in the iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John so far. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lot of upside. Actually, that’s not true. You’re counting Kindles? Well, yeah. I mean, everyone else

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does. So yeah, you have to count Kindles and Nooks.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if you have to. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah, I guess

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that’s true. And nobody knows how much they’ve really sold, do they? I mean, everyone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John not like where you see the market share graphs, where it’s like Android versus iPhone. And Android

⏹️ ▶️ John is like 50-something percent, and iPhone is like 20. Every time you see a tablet, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like Apple has like 70 80 depending on who’s counting what.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I think that is steadily going down. I think it used to be Apple had like 85

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to 90 and then it’s been slowly creeping down and now it’s like 79. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still have obviously a dominant hold on it.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s okay for that to go on when the overall size of the market is going up so rapidly. It’s okay to

⏹️ ▶️ John be like that. Think of the iPod. It has to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco move down a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ John The iPod hovered around 70 for a long time and that was just plain fine. 70 was considered dominant

⏹️ ▶️ John because like other plus random, you know, competitors is always going to add up to like 30% or something. But

⏹️ ▶️ John everyone, you know, if you went to buy a music player, you’re just going to get an iPod.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I never realized it was that low because yeah, you know, everyone kind of assumed that the iPod was like pretty much the only game in town.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think if you look at it now, they always they always peg the number around 70 something. It wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John as dominant as you would think of it because we never would consider anything else. Like what what are people buying besides iPods? I don’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t even know where to go for such a thing. But you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco world

⏹️ ▶️ John is a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco big place. place. One of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco those things probably where like you know number one is the iPod, number two is like 1%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know because it’s like because there’s so many entries in that what is it the the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco second plurality or something yeah I don’t know I don’t know math

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m just a programmer I think it’s it’s also worth pointing out based you know based on what you just said about smartphones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and market and everything that that we have crossed an important threshold in the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco industry and and I don’t think the industry knows it yet so I’m going to announce it here big news

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we heard it here first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my mother just purchased her first smartphone

⏹️ ▶️ John really how much how much prompting from you I told her not to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I didn’t want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t want to support that and her needs for like she had she has a MacBook Air and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco loves it she had an iMac or an iBook before that she actually figured out the computer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty well I was I was pleasantly surprised because she’s really, really non-technical.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was pleasantly surprised by how well she does in the computer, but I told her you don’t need an iPad and you don’t need a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco smartphone because I know what she does and doesn’t do for the most part. She abuses

⏹️ ▶️ Marco her phones and so I’m like just get whatever cheap flip phone you can get. So she’s had a flip

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone for years. She just got her first smartphone. Against my advice can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you guess what phone she got

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a galaxy note

⏹️ ▶️ John the free iPhone for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John you are you are correct

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John even though I told her

⏹️ ▶️ Marco she was she was visiting here you know my she was visiting my library of old iPhones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my house a couple of weeks ago or a month ago and and I showed her okay I’m like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco here’s the iPhone 4 here’s the iPhone 5 I didn’t show her the 4s because who cares

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I knew I knew she wouldn’t care about the difference. So I was like, here’s the four, here’s the five. And I told her specifically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do not get the free one. The one that’s even 100 bucks more is way better.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 4S is so much better than the four. And I showed her the five and I’m like, look for 200

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can get this one. It is way better than even the middle one. And trust

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me, this is the right, I was trying to push you with five. Like just get the 16 gig, the cheapest one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Trust me, get that, it’s great. And if you don’t wanna spend 200 bucks, at least spend the 100 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco get the 4S. Do not get the iPhone 4. She goes and gets the iPhone 4.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And calls me like afterwards saying, hey, guess what I just got. And she kept saying, it was free.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I know you told me to get the other one, but this one

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John was free. And it was so- Like the Seinfeld episode,

⏹️ ▶️ John who buys batteries?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it was so powerful. That’s why this really, you know, this really matters

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot to have that in the free category. I mean, it matters so much that, you know, people

⏹️ ▶️ Marco aren’t thinking about the planned costs over time, or, you know, how

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can just spend 100 bucks over this $2,000 phone contract, spend 100 bucks more, and have way better device the whole time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Because she actually will keep it the whole two years. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco she’s not gonna upgrade early or anything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey So, it’s just- You don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to sound so judgy. I have, I’m still rocking my 4S because I’m too cheap to get a new one every

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the 4S is a decent phone, and even by today’s standards, it’s a heavy, big brick, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco decent.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh, that’s what

⏹️ ▶️ John I said in my Apple 2013 to-do list, to

⏹️ ▶️ John add more variety for the phone lineup. Make a purpose-built, low-cost,

⏹️ ▶️ John free phone instead of having the old one, because I think you can get a better phone out for

⏹️ ▶️ John similar costs and similar margins than just redoing it. Maybe I’m wrong about that, Tim Cook, and tell me about the manufacturing

⏹️ ▶️ John stuff, but Think of how much better you would feel if she was getting a free phone with exactly the same

⏹️ ▶️ John power and specs as the iPhone 4, but like not an actual iPhone 4, like

⏹️ ▶️ John made a purpose-built thing made with old technology, but a newer phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Right, like an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco A5 with a plastic shell.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, well, I mean, you don’t have to make it crappy, but like you have the technology now to make a better phone

⏹️ ▶️ John than that. Maybe use die-shrunk versions of components. Maybe you can make a little bit smaller and lighter. Maybe you can bump up

⏹️ ▶️ John the margin a little bit, you know. I know why they want to keep making the same phone. You’ve got the assembly lines going. You’ve got the

⏹️ ▶️ John parts going. It’s like you’re in a groove. The cost of everything is going way, way down. But there’s that certain point where

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you know, remember when USB 1 started to become more expensive than USB 2? There was

⏹️ ▶️ John that

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco crossover point where it

⏹️ ▶️ John was like, if you actually wanted to put USB 1 on your motherboard or in your computer,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you would end up paying more because everybody switched to USB 2. Right, or like when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have old RAM and you want to upgrade, like, you know, if you still have like something that uses DDR 2 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, trying to find that nowadays is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John very expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not that extreme, but I think there is definitely a case to be made for,

⏹️ ▶️ John even if only just from a marketing perspective. So you don’t feel, your mother doesn’t care that she’s getting an old phone, but some people do.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco They’re like, oh. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t think

⏹️ ▶️ John she knows that it’s old. The iPhone 4, the 4 and the 4S looking the same probably helps in this regard.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I would feel bad if I was Apple that people are out there today

⏹️ ▶️ John coming home with a new phone that is just as old as the iPhone 4. I’d rather them coming home with a phone with

⏹️ ▶️ John similar power, but maybe better battery life, maybe slightly better screen, like maybe,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco maybe all the things, home button,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah, maybe no glass on the back, like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco all the things that you

⏹️ ▶️ John can do to like make it, I mean, you said plastic, make it more durable for people who you know aren’t going to be as precious

⏹️ ▶️ John about their phones, right? And they’re, I don’t know how they make that work financially

⏹️ ▶️ John in terms of making the same phone over and over again being cheaper versus making a new one. But yeah, the power of

⏹️ ▶️ John free with contract in the US anyway, I don’t know how it is elsewhere. I would really like to see them

⏹️ ▶️ John do that and come out with a line of phones with the same price points for $399, $299, and then the ridiculous phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John but not have, as soon as you go off the top line, have it be like, oh, you’re just getting the old phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because there’s something about that that makes me feel like they’re leaving

⏹️ ▶️ John money and reputation on the table by continuing to sell old phones that far into the past. Sell the previous

⏹️ ▶️ John one, fine, but don’t go back like two models or three models.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, yeah, I just I think like, you know, think about the tech world, think about what you were doing and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what else was around when the iPhone 4 came out. You know, the iPhone 4 came out a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few months after the iPad 1, for one thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Nobody wants an iPad 1. Who wants an iPad 1 at this point? You can’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John practically give them away. Like they’re even children turn their

⏹️ ▶️ John nose up at them because they don’t play the Tokuboko games

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco with a good frame rate, you know.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it came out right after the iPad 1 by a few months and it was in 2010.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was still at Tumblr when the iPhone 4 came out. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just thinking about how long we’ve had retina screens. Now it seems like we’ve always had retina screens on our phones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe not everything else, but on our phones, of course, we’ve always had retina screens. Nope, it’s been since 2010, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was almost three years ago. And I can’t believe, like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s people now getting A4 devices with crappy home buttons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and questionable antenna designs, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I’m going to have to support those. And,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, give them a little bit more RAM, you know? Right. Like, do a sh—fine, make it an A4, shrink it, make it

⏹️ ▶️ John slightly higher clock and double the RAM. And then all of a sudden it’s not as embarrassing anymore. It’s not as much

⏹️ ▶️ John a pain for software developers who have to deal with this, you know what I mean? It’s just so much better for everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John involved. And then you probably wouldn’t care that much that your mom got the iPhone Free model because you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John like, oh, well, it’s not that terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, see I disagree because what do you think the likelihood is that the iPhone 4 will run iOS 7

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when it comes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John out? Very good question for sure.

⏹️ ▶️ John I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco as a developer I have to care Yeah, that’s you know, if they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still selling all these like last year They were still selling three GS’s until the iPhone 5 came

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, that’s why I said double the RAM, because RAM ends up being limiting. That’s why multitasking couldn’t go

⏹️ ▶️ John on the other phones. CPU power and GPU power keeps you out of games and stuff. But I think they’ve probably

⏹️ ▶️ John passed the point now where they’re adding OS features that can’t run because of CPU constraints. It’s always RAM,

⏹️ ▶️ John but they’re still relatively RAM starved. And there’s no getting around that. There’s nothing you can do to optimize

⏹️ ▶️ John your code. If the OS is taking up a bigger portion of RAM, you have less left over for you. And no matter

⏹️ ▶️ John how you optimize your stuff, you can’t fix the OS. So the 4 is just too old.

⏹️ ▶️ John The 3GS was even worse, hanging around for that long. It’s just,

⏹️ ▶️ John what were the RAM levels? It was like, what did the 3GS have?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco 128?

⏹️ ▶️ John 128, and then, you know. No, no, no, it was 256. Never mind. 256, and

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco then email Casey. Yeah, like 512, 1 gig.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you look at the RAM things, they’re doubling, right? And we’re not out of the uncomfortable part.

⏹️ ▶️ John Even with the 1 gig, you feel like, oh, well, If I run a big game, it could be pushing up against the

⏹️ ▶️ John edge

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And Retina took us back in that regard a little bit, because everything started taking, like all the textures and everything started taking way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more RAM, four times as much RAM.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. And we’re not even talking about adding swap. We’re saying, fine, still no swap. We’re still OK

⏹️ ▶️ John with that, because we realize that the performance constraints are the reason for that. But

⏹️ ▶️ John at least get us out of the woods. If we go through two or three more doubling periods, then we’re going to be like, all right, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John nothing they’re going to do with the OS and any one individual app that’s gonna hose you

⏹️ ▶️ John know a 2 gig or a 4 gig phone and then your mom has a 4 if your mom has

⏹️ ▶️ John a 4 gig phone even if that phone is 3 years old you’re like it’s got 4 gigs it’ll be fine right I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t I don’t know what they could add that will make a 4 gig phone say oh don’t get that one doesn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John enough RAM to run the in the OS and basic apps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I want to wrap it up sure I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good all right special thanks again to our two sponsors today mail route

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and hover go to mail route dot oh crap is it net

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yes I close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey that we are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey professional

⏹️ ▶️ Marco go to mail route net to check out their hosted email filtering service

⏹️ ▶️ Marco filters out spam and viruses and other stuff other good services there too and then check out hover

⏹️ ▶️ Marco comm hover comm slash ATP to get a little discount on your on your order there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hover is an awesome domain Registrar and can’t recommend them enough. Thanks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot guys and this was our first test of live streaming I think it worked very well

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John yeah

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thanks a lot and we’ll see you next week.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco T. Marco Armin S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Syracuse

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s accidental, accidental, they did it mean

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to Accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ John accidental, check broadcast so long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey after-work function where I might have had a drink or two and I definitely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have some of my… what do we call the coffee? The fussy coffee? I have fussy vodka.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What exactly is, I mean I know this is probably not relevant to the show but who cares, what exactly is fussy vodka?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t think there is really such a thing. It’s just a vodka that you have to special order from our local…

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so the to get alcohol in Virginia you have to go to an ABC store which is a state-run

⏹️ ▶️ Casey run thing and so in order to get this particular bottle of vodka,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you have to special order it and that’s what I’ve done. So it’s marginally fussy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not a coffee drinker, so it’s the next best thing, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now, John, I’m curious, do you have fussy water?

⏹️ ▶️ John The fussiest water gets is I let the tap run until the water that’s been sitting in the pipes

⏹️ ▶️ John and kind of coming up to room temperature runs out a little bit and I get the slightly colder water.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s as fussy as it gets.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, that’s fantastic. So I guess you want to start the show? Maybe this is the show already.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, this is not the show. Good God.