Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

456: The Monitor Situation

More MacBook Pro joy, the future of the iMac, a pile of iPhone 13 Pro cases, and Casey’s new-yet-again setup.

Episode Description:

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Sponsored by:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. Casey’s Fine Setup
  2. ATP Store 🖼️
  3. Messages security vs. iCloud
  4. Monterey T2 issues
  5. Notch avoidance
  6. Sponsor: Connection
  7. The MacBook Pro joy continues
  8. MBP Xcode benchmarks 🖼️
  9. Memory pressure 🖼️
  10. 16” vs. 14” thermals
  11. Sponsor: RevenueCat
  12. iPhone-case mega-review 🖼️
  13. Sponsor: Lutron Caséta
  14. Next-gen MBP hopes
  15. Big-iMac SOC?
  16. Wishing for a monitor
  17. Ending theme
  18. #aftershowaskatp: M1 GHz?
  19. Old MBP w/M1 Max or new MBP w/Intel?

Casey’s Fine Setup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now, with that said, I would like to serve you a second crap sandwich. If you’re just joining us and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re not a bootleg listener, I just beat up Marco for about, I don’t know, 10 minutes about Under the Radar. So you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go to and you can hear me beating Marco up about Under the Radar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I would like to serve you a second crap sandwich. Last week’s episode, while

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was an unequivocal mess slash disaster, it was one of my favorite episodes in a long

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time because of the utter disaster that is both Marco and my personal setups

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco how I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey decided to turn our setups on our heads. With that said, Marco, I have completely turned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my setup on its head yet again. Oh my God. So if this recording works, it will be a miracle.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey As of literally two-ish hours ago, maybe a hint more than that, I I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have now been using an LG 5K, baby. It is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey installed, I’m using it. And in fact, my USB Mix Pre 3 is connected

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to the monitor, which is connected to my computer. And oh man, if this works, I’ll be impressed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re running your sound interface through one of the ports on the back of the UltraFine? Yes, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco am. Oh my God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John learned it by

⏹️ ▶️ Casey watching you. Say

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John what?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Ha ha ha ha

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco ha

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ha ha. So Marco, I love you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I really do. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh God.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but this is gonna be an adventure for all of us. So, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco gonna- I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gotta help you with the drift. The only thing is you better be recording on that MixPre and with its built-in SD card.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am. Because that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey gonna be the only drift-free

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recording that you get.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I am.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And all kidding aside, if it is a disaster, I expect, I know you will tell me, but I expect you to tell me and I’ll rejigger things for next

⏹️ ▶️ Casey week. But I wanted to give it a try and I thought, you know, why would I only plug in this monitor

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and use that for power for my computer? And ethernet, by the way, is also on this monitor. Why would I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only- Oh my God. do Ethernet and power, why not just do the audio interface there as well? Just really go for broke.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so here you go, Marco, there’s your second crab sandwich. I hope you love it. Oh, you’re missing

⏹️ ▶️ John a piece of bread. That’s an open face crab sandwich.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it’s more of a melt. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

ATP Store

Chapter ATP Store image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We should talk one last time, and I can’t sing, otherwise I would, one last time about the ATP

⏹️ ▶️ Casey store, which is back, baby, but it’s on its way out the door. You can go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash store, and you can get all sorts of sweet merchandise, which at least if you’re in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey contiguous, whatever, continental US, I always get the word wrong. If you’re in the big part of the United States, you should,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no guarantees, should get it by the holidays. So.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Isn’t Alaska a pretty big part of the United States?

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, that’s just the Mercator projection.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Oh, okay.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s big, but not as big as it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looks. I’m so sorry Alaskans. So here we go. We got the M1 Pro shirt. We’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey got the M1 Max shirt available on black colored cloth,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey either tri-blend or cotton, and then rainbow print on the front and a monochrome version

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the respective chips on the back. Then we’ve got the M1 Pro shirt, which we’ve curiously named

⏹️ ▶️ Casey monochrome, which does make sense because the print is monochrome, and yet these are on many

⏹️ ▶️ Casey varied colors of shirt. So you can go colorful ink, black shirt, or you can go colorful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shirt, white or black ink, depending on which shirt color we’re talking about. We also have the ATP winter hat.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Note, this is a turkey hat. It is not a chicken hat, but it is still very, very nice. We’ve also brought

⏹️ ▶️ Casey back the ATP hoodie and additionally the ATP logo shirt, the classic, classic ATP logo shirt.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So here’s the thing, as we record this, it’s Wednesday night. We are probably going to be releasing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it Thursday sometime by, I believe it’s Friday evening. Is that right, gentlemen? Yep. Friday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey evening, ATP time, the store will close for the sweet,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey um, uh, like click Kickstarter style stuff that we’ve got going on now. And then sometime over the weekend,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we will go back to the print on demand stuff, which is far more limited. So as always, if you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are driving, if you are walking, if you are biking, if you’re a rollerblading, if you’re unicycling, whatever you may be doing, if you are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey moving in any way, please gently and gracefully stop and move to the side of the road

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or sidewalk that you’re on and go to ATP. and check out the wares and perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make a purchase. Now, a couple of quick reminders. Number one, if you are an ATP member, go to your member page

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on, and there will be a unique coupon code that you can use to get 15%

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off on these limited time sales like the one we’re talking about right now. And if you wanted to be a member,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey become a member again, Additionally, I believe I talked about this last week, but I’d

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like to reiterate that Cotton Bureau, who is our fulfillment and print people, They’re excellent, excellent, amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey friends of ours. They have rejiggered their shipping system such that it should,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey no guarantees, should be cheaper for anyone who is not American. And in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey many cases, including for Australia, I don’t know if any of the other Southern Hemisphere countries

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are the same way, but at least for Australia, the VAT and some of those other taxes, they will do their

⏹️ ▶️ Casey best effort to calculate that at purchase time so you don’t get a sweet holiday surprise, thanks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to your friends at ATP. So again, slash store, you are running out of time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Every time you guys, one of you says, oh, I meant to and I forgot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Is it too, yes, it’s too late. Go now, slash store.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I feel like people do that now just to troll you. They do. Which is funny, because they literally like miss out on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sale just as a method to troll you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But you know what? It’s their loss, not mine. Well, it is kind of mine, but still it’s also theirs.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So slash store.

⏹️ ▶️ John Remember, this is the holiday sale. So if you’re thinking of getting, even if you don’t want one of these things, or if you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John being subjected to this podcast, say you’re a prisoner in

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco a car and someone is

⏹️ ▶️ John playing this podcast and you don’t want to hear it, but you think you might want to get the person who forced you to listen to this podcast,

⏹️ ▶️ John you might want to get them a nice gift, go to slash store quickly, very, very quickly, because this

⏹️ ▶️ John is probably like a day or less, depending on when you hear this, very quickly, like basically now, and secretly

⏹️ ▶️ John buy them something, and then maybe you can bribe them into not playing this podcast when you’re stuck in the car with them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, and then if you become a member, remember, if you become a member, remember, you do not have to cancel,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey despite what John thinks, and you can enjoy the sweet, sweet benefits like the bootleg, for example. So you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hear the first of the crud sandwiches that I served Marco earlier this evening. So check that out,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Join Store. door now.

Messages security vs. iCloud

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Let’s do some follow-up. We talked last week, I believe it was, about how, I think the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey genesis of this was that I do not have messages in the Cloud or in iCloud turned on. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think you guys might have made fun of me a little bit. I said, I was worried about encryption and so on and so forth. We

⏹️ ▶️ Casey waved our hands at it because we weren’t entirely sure of the specifics of it. A few people wrote in and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pointed out the specifics about encryption and iCloud and messages.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Reading from the iCloud security overview, It says, for messages in iCloud,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you have an iCloud backup turned on, your backup includes a copy of the key protecting your messages.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This ensures that you can recover your messages if you lose access to your keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off iCloud backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future messages that is not stored

⏹️ ▶️ Casey by Apple. So if I read this right, the short, short version is, it is still end-to-end encrypted,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even with messages in the cloud, as long as you do not have iCloud backup turned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on. The moment you have iCloud backup turned on, though, all bets are off in terms of end-to-end encryption. Is that

⏹️ ▶️ John fair? You should listen to ADP, because we talked about this before and said the exact same thing. But not everyone has heard every

⏹️ ▶️ John episode, so it’s good to hear this. I think the reason we didn’t mention this specifically

⏹️ ▶️ John is because, in general, we assume that everybody has iCloud backup turned on. Do you have iCloud backup turned

⏹️ ▶️ John on, Casey? I’m pretty sure I do,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. Pretty sure or sure? You know, I never used to. But then once I started doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Apple One plus whatever thing, I finally had the space in which to do it. And so I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that I do, I’m trying to stall for time and figure that out, but somebody else can start talking.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. I would recommend people use iCloud backup and I assume most people do use iCloud backup if they can, because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a very convenient way to get your stuff backed up and it’s, uh, it’s kind of like what time machine wishes it was, which is

⏹️ ▶️ John like, Oh, someone hits a switch in a setting somewhere and then never has to think about it again. And that vastly increases the

⏹️ ▶️ John odds that if they, you know, drop their phone into a lake, uh, and don’t have someone dive down and get it for them, that they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ John have their data protected. So the reason we say, oh, messages in the cloud means Apple can get

⏹️ ▶️ John access to your messages is because we just assume people have iCloud backup turned on. And honestly, you should in general.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like, obviously, you really, really are paranoid about security. I guess don’t turn it on

⏹️ ▶️ John or use a different app like Signal, or I don’t know what you want to do if you’re that paranoid about security. But for the average person,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t turn off iCloud backup because you’re afraid of Apple having your encryption key. It’s better for you to have pictures of your

⏹️ ▶️ John kids than to worry about Apple looking at your messages.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, and to get ahead of the inevitable feedback, yes, hypothetically, law enforcement could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey compel Apple to give them a view into your messages, theoretically.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no, I know. But I’m saying like, it’s which one of these things is the more likely bad thing to happen to you?

⏹️ ▶️ John And you have to choose amongst them. It’s not great to have all those choices. We wish there was a way to do these double-ended encrypted, but as

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple explains, they’re trying to save your bacon. Because the way iCloud Keychain works is if you do lose

⏹️ ▶️ John all your quote-unquote trusted devices, there’s nothing Apple can do to get it back, right? And that’s a thing that can happen

⏹️ ▶️ John to people, especially say you had just one iPhone and you lost and broke that iPhone and it had no backups and that had

⏹️ ▶️ John pictures of your kids on it for the past two years that you don’t have any place else. That’s not good. Apple doesn’t want that to happen.

⏹️ ▶️ John That is far more likely to happen than you to be the person who the government compels Apple to give your

⏹️ ▶️ John secret encryption key and look at your messages and so on and so forth. Not saying this is a great choice for people to have to make,

⏹️ ▶️ John but these are the choices given to us. And of those two choices, I would recommend using iCloud Backup.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Real-time follow-up, I do have iCloud backup turned on, and again, I think that’s only been since I joined Apple One, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is on. That’s good.

Monterey T2 issues

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, go team. Apple has had some problems with Mac OS Monterey

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it kind of bricking some T2 enabled Macs. Can you tell me about this?

⏹️ ▶️ John People keep using the term brick. I’m wondering if it’s one of those terms is going to lose its original meaning and I’m not going to be able

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to

⏹️ ▶️ John yell at people for using it wrong because it’ll have the new meaning. But anyway, the original meaning for brick is that your computer becomes

⏹️ ▶️ John a brick basically as useful as a brick as in this is a piece of hardware that cannot be resurrected,

⏹️ ▶️ John that it is now like someone will have to open this up and do stuff inside it to

⏹️ ▶️ John resurrect this. It is basically a brick. Like that’s where the term comes from. Not that this isn’t a

⏹️ ▶️ John bad bug, it was. There was something with the Monterey update that would hose the Bridge

⏹️ ▶️ John OS thing that runs on the T2 chip, and that would just cause your computer not to boot correctly.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you could resurrect it. You could do what I had to do to my Mac Pro when I did the same, you know, an old, I think it was like a big

⏹️ ▶️ John Sur update or something. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Hose

⏹️ ▶️ John my Bridge OS. There’s a way, you have to have another Mac, which is not a problem in this house, but for some people it might

⏹️ ▶️ John be. But you can resurrect another Mac using the Apple configurator

⏹️ ▶️ John too, and it’s a whole big weird procedure, but you can do it. That’s why it’s not bricked, because if it was bricked, you

⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t be able to resurrect it. Like, it would, just like you can’t resurrect a brick. Anyway, setting aside the pedantry

⏹️ ▶️ John about the term brick, there was a bug with the Monterey update. Apple says they have identified and fixed

⏹️ ▶️ John the issue with the firmware on the Apple TV security chip, blah, blah, blah. And they say the updated firmware

⏹️ ▶️ John is now included with the existing macOS updates. So it’s not like they had to release a new version, I guess. I guess if you just

⏹️ ▶️ John run the updater now, you’ll get the new firmware. So whatever. The

⏹️ ▶️ John Ars Technica article that we got this from points out that this Apple statement doesn’t address similar complaints

⏹️ ▶️ John of people who had pre T2 Macs. So maybe there’s still a problem with really

⏹️ ▶️ John older Macs. But like we said last week, Monterey seems pretty safe. I’ve upgraded all my computers. It’s been fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you had a T2 based Mac and you were worried about it, apparently Apple has fixed that bug and you’re fine to upgrade. If

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ve got a pre T2 Mac, Perhaps there are still problems, but hard to say.

Notch avoidance

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then tell me about ways to avoid the notch, which by the way, I really don’t think is necessary

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my personal estimation, but a lot of people seem to be very worked up about this. So how can you avoid the notch?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So

⏹️ ▶️ John Roberto Jong-Dreves says the cleanest way to get rid of the notch without having to deal with suboptimal resolution,

⏹️ ▶️ John because we were talking last week, like when you said that compatibility thing, it shrinks the whole image down to non-native

⏹️ ▶️ John res, is to use RDM. I don’t know what that stands for. I tried to look it up, but it’s a project on GitHub.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ll put a link in the show notes. Using RDM, Roberto says, I can switch the new MacBook Pro resolution

⏹️ ▶️ John from the native 1512 by 982 points to 1512 by 945 points,

⏹️ ▶️ John which makes the notch permanently go away. So what this thing does, this is the utility is just letting you

⏹️ ▶️ John pick resolutions that aren’t offered to you in system preferences because you just get those five choices or whatever. This lets

⏹️ ▶️ John you see way more choices. And one of the choices is a resolution that falls short of where the

⏹️ ▶️ John notch is. So, you know, if you, there was a tweet, Roberto had a tweet on this, You can see a picture of his

⏹️ ▶️ John Mac and lo and behold his Mac has a taller Black forehead around

⏹️ ▶️ John the top border of the screen just like all the old Mac books used to so if you want to just sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John Throw those pixels back in Apple’s face Apple gave you all these extra pixel pixels of the sort of ears around the notch if

⏹️ ▶️ John you just want to throw those pixels back In Apple’s faces, you know what? I’m not gonna use those pixels. I’m gonna pretend those pixels aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John there I’m gonna set my screen to a resolution that falls below where the notch is

⏹️ ▶️ John and just ignore all those pictures and pixels and they’ll just be turned off all the time. And hopefully I won’t have any mini

⏹️ ▶️ John LED blooming reminding me that that’s actually a screen behind there. That is a way to

⏹️ ▶️ John just forget about the notch entirely and pretend that Apple gave you a smaller screen And they actually

⏹️ ▶️ John did.

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The MacBook Pro joy continues

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so we

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have both Marco and me, some more MacBook Pro observations and so on.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just some quickies for me. So over the last week or so since we recorded,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve taken the occasion a couple of times to work with the MacBook Pro outside and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it may all be in my head. I don’t think it is, but it may be all in my head. But one of the things that I’ve really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey enjoyed about working outside with this thing is that I feel like the screen is legitimately brighter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I know they talked about, oh, it’s, you know, a thousand nits or whatever at peak brightness. But I don’t recall

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what my last year’s MacBook Pro was. I don’t really know what the numbers say to compare. It honestly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doesn’t really matter. All I can tell you is that my lived experience, placebo or otherwise, is that it is genuinely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quite a bit brighter and easier to see outside, which is great, even in sunlight, which is very impressive.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know why you’re doubting your experience. Yeah, it’s way brighter.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, well, no, because I don’t know if the numbers, I don’t know if the numbers would say.

⏹️ ▶️ John The numbers are big. I think like your old one is probably like 300 nits max. And this thing goes up to a thousand, but it’s probably

⏹️ ▶️ John displaying at 500, but either way more than 300. There you go. So, yeah, you can look up. I’m just making up

⏹️ ▶️ John the numbers. I’m just like, yes, this, it does not surprise me that you’re much brighter screen looks brighter. Turns

⏹️ ▶️ John out.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Um, additionally, so I have, uh, really enjoyed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey from time to time going and working at like a park, especially, uh, in pandemic times.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey once we came to realize that, you know, if you’re more than 10 feet away from somebody, especially outside,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey then, you know, you should be pretty safe, you know, knock on wood, all things being considered. And, um, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so I’ve tried. Uh, from time to time to go and find places to work. And, you know, I used to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey go to like a local grocery store. It’s a very fancy grocery store and it has like a little cafe area.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m not a coffee drinker, so I didn’t really ever go to Starbucks, but if I was, I would have gone to Starbucks. And, but since,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, the pandemic has happened and is happening, I’m still mostly allergic to the indoors. So I’ve been trying to find

⏹️ ▶️ Casey outdoors places to go and work. And there’s a lot of really great parks in the county in which I live,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and other things like that. And so over the last year and a half or two years, I’ve been amassing a private

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Maps collection, I think they call it, that I call Places to Work. And I’ll take a note

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of, oh, right here in this park, there’s some picnic tables that are shaded. Or over there, there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a shady area that has picnic tables underneath it. Oh, and these ones have power, and so on and so forth. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of the things that was a real struggle for me is if I wanted to sit down for like several hours and do work,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey particularly outside, irrespective of like my internet situation, which was often but not always tethering,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on my old laptop, like I really needed to worry about power after just an hour or two. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have a USB-C battery pack that I can use. It’s big enough physically in terms of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what, milliamp hours or whatever, that I can power a computer with it for some amount of time. But even still,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would only have, I don’t know, three or four hours or something like that on my last year’s laptop. And let me tell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you, I spent all morning outside at a botanical garden here in Richmond, don’t be creepy, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I was on like 75% battery or something like that when I left, I should have actually taken note

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of how long I was there and how much battery I used. But the point I’m driving at is, I really don’t need to worry about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey power as long as I’m not gonna be out literally all day. And I know that this is old news for those of you who have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had M1 Macs before, but even with the M1 Macs and 64 gigs of RAM and 24 GPUs,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is real nice not having to worry about power for like three and four hours at a time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is super cool and I’ve really appreciated it already. Now, in the spirit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of me rejiggering my desk setup, I realized, well, I’m going to be unloading this iMac Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which by the way, if you’re interested, please reach out, but I’m going to be unloading this iMac Pro in the next couple of weeks, and I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey will presumably be sending the keyboard and trackpad that came with it to the next owner. So now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I need a new setup unless I’m going to live with the keyboard and trackpad that are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey physically on the laptop, which when I’m at home, I don’t really want to do because it’s not terribly ergonomic.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I went to the Apple store and I bought myself a fancy new 100 and whatever key extended

⏹️ ▶️ Casey keyboard with a numpad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The one with Touch ID?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yes, the new one with Touch ID and then a new trackpad, which I think is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in most ways the same as what I had except white instead of much more attractive in my opinion, dark Gray,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I bought one of, you know, a trackpad and a new keyboard. Do you have any idea how friggin expensive these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey things are?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe it was like the keyboard. I think it’s 150.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The small one is, I believe. I believe the big one was 180. Oh God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then the, yeah, the small, yeah, they were right. The small one, Touch ID is 150. I’ve been thinking about ordering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one, but, but yeah, the, the, um, the trackpad I think is also about 160 or 180. I thought

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was 130. I don’t have these numbers in front

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco of me. It’s expensive. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, it doesn’t matter if I don’t have it exactly right, but all told, between the two of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey them, and I also got a second MagSafe, you know, an additional MagSafe cable, but I think it was like 310, 320 bucks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for just the keyboard and the mouse or something like that. Like it was preposterously expensive,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just hilariously expensive. And to get ahead of people asking, like I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey didn’t necessarily want the keyboard with the numeric keypad. It is what I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey chose, but it’s not what I necessarily wanted. but did you remember the Achilles heel of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the smaller sized keyboard that does not have the numeric keypad on it?

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s got the messed up arrow keys.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s got the piss poor arrow keys. And since I’m used to the extended version, cause that’s what the iMac Pro came

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with, I thought to myself, you know what? I’d rather have the proper arrow keys and the numeric keypad, which I do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey use from time to time, but not enough to really justify it in the grand scheme of things.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I ended up splurging for the $180, I can confirm that now $180 magic keyboard with touch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ID and numeric keypad for Mac models with Apple Silicon, hyphen US English. That’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey a better

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard anyway. And by the way, that little keyboard that we’re talking about, like what are we saying by the messed up arrow keys is

⏹️ ▶️ John it has the style that used to be on all the Mac laptops where the up and down arrows

⏹️ ▶️ John are half size and wedged into like a single key caps space. And then the left and

⏹️ ▶️ John right arrows are full size keys. So you have three keys in a row, left,

⏹️ ▶️ John then the up down, and then right, that are all kind of the same height. And what we wanted on the laptops, what we got

⏹️ ▶️ John on the current laptops is what we call the inverted T where the left and right arrows are half height, and you would

⏹️ ▶️ John think that’s worse, you’re making the left and right arrows smaller, they must be harder to hit. But the key about them being half height is

⏹️ ▶️ John now you can feel for that T because you can feel the half height key and then the full height up and

⏹️ ▶️ John down pair and then the other half height key that goes to the right. And it’s easy, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s an obviously the full size keyboard has an inverted T as well. You can actually feel for the keys without looking

⏹️ ▶️ John at them. And if you’re used to that, going to the full-size left and right keys was a downgrade for a lot of people and apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple agreed because they changed it on their laptops. But this one keyboard, this one dinky tiny keyboard

⏹️ ▶️ John that comes with the iMacs and that you get if you don’t buy this extended one, it has

⏹️ ▶️ John the full height left and right arrow keys. And the reason it has the full height left and right arrow keys, if you look at the picture of

⏹️ ▶️ John it, is that if you tried to make the right arrow key in particular half height it

⏹️ ▶️ John wouldn’t quite work because the corner of the keyboard is rounded

⏹️ ▶️ John and so that key would not just be half height but it would also have its corner chopped off so this is

⏹️ ▶️ John a one of the few remaining examples of fairly egregious form over function where someone

⏹️ ▶️ John decided that it was really really important for this keyboard to have rounded edges at the

⏹️ ▶️ John cost of the arrow keys being easier and more comfortable to use for most people that’s not a good

⏹️ ▶️ John trade I know it It looks cute when the keyboard has rounded corners. The keyboard you bought, Casey, has rounded

⏹️ ▶️ John corners. And so the Enter key is rounded, the Control key is rounded, the Escape key is rounded, and the F19

⏹️ ▶️ John key are rounded. And it’s not that bad, but they’re still pretty big keys. Like Enter and Control and Escape are much

⏹️ ▶️ John bigger than a normal key, and then F19, who hits that? It’s not a big deal. But for the little

⏹️ ▶️ John keyboard, they sacrificed the usability of the arrow keys just so it could have extremely

⏹️ ▶️ John rounded corners. I think that is a bad trade. I hope Apple fixes that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That seemed like it was like directly from like the ghost of Johnny. I like somehow Johnny came back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into the building and I guess his key card still works probably. And he came back in and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somehow he convinced like one person like, Hey, just, you know, just do this for me. I can’t live with these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less rounded keyboard corners that would otherwise make usable arrow keys. I can’t, I can’t tolerate that. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco got to round it a little bit more and make it a little bit more like this wonderful generation of keyboards you made from 2016 to 2019. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Please make it more like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that’s why, like, you know, it’s not like the keyboard that I’m using right now, the one that came with my Mac Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like it doesn’t have rounded corners. It does. The radius is just smaller of the rounding. Like, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it. Like, it’s not like this has sharp corners that needed to be fixed. And it’s also not like the keyboard that I’m using right

⏹️ ▶️ John now is somehow a giant battleship like the Apple Extended Keyboard 2 or something. It’s so tightly

⏹️ ▶️ John wrapped around the keys, it’s like it disappears. And yet this tightness and this

⏹️ ▶️ John amount of rounding was deemed insufficient for the new computers because the radius of the rounded corner should be

⏹️ ▶️ John similar on the screen and the keyboard. It’s like no, fine, you can do that, fine, but if you want to do that,

⏹️ ▶️ John either make the border on your keyboards bigger or, I don’t know, like just don’t mangle the

⏹️ ▶️ John arrow keys for it. It’s a bad choice. But anyway, I’m glad the extended one doesn’t suffer from this. And it’s, I know Casey

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t want the extended one because most people don’t want a numpad, but page up, page down, home end, and real

⏹️ ▶️ John full-size inverted T arrow keys. It’s a great way to live.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And delete, yeah, forward delete or whatever it is. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Yeah, and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forward delete without hitting FN. Yep, yeah, all these are very true. So it’s, I shouldn’t complain. It’s the thing I’m complaining

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about more than anything else is that it was a hundred, I’ve now looked it up, $180 for the keyboard and 130 for the Magic Trackpad.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So $310 frigging dollars for peripherals for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this stupid computer that I actually absolutely am in love with, but nevertheless.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah, I got,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco man, the more I’m using this computer, like, oh man, the new MacBook Pros

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey They’re so good. They’re so good. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you know, I was, it was funny too, because after I was doing work at the Botanical Gardens, Declan was in school, but Aaron and Michaela

⏹️ ▶️ Casey came and met me and we walked around, had lunch and stuff. And I was saying to Aaron, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey liked using my old laptop and it was perfectly sufficient, but it was always a little bit of a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pain because it was demonstrably slower than the iMac Pro. And so if

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m choosing to say, work on the screened-in porch, unless I pull an MKBHD and haul the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iMac Pro down there, I’m still using a slower computer. And it’s frustrating

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s just annoying. Whereas here it was, I was in the middle of a garden

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on a computer that was tethered to nothing with a cable and tethered to my phone for internet. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s so incredibly fast. Like I cannot oversell

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how fast it is to build and run this new thing I’m working on. It is so fast and so nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And it’s so amazing to not have to feel like I am, I am crippling myself

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when I step away from my desk. Of course, now that I say that, that’s a perfect segue to the LG

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 5K, which I have acquired secondhand. Now, this person did not ask for a plug,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but my friend Chris Gray, who is part of, with Glenn Welsh, the Starport 75

⏹️ ▶️ Casey podcast, which I’ve guested on a handful of times, and I actually plan to do so again soon. It’s a Disney-themed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey podcast, and it’s really good, and they have a great chemistry, the two of them. Well, Chris didn’t want his LG

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 5K anymore, and so he sold it to me at a tremendously great deal and so I felt

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a lot better spending the money I spent on it rather than spending like $1,300 or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is to get a brand new one. That being said, I haven’t exactly canceled the order I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for the brand new one and I know I should but I can’t quite bring myself to do it because I think it would be so awesome to have two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of these but nevertheless, the LG 5K in terms of the screen based on three hours

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of use, the screen is great. It’s not as great as the one in the MacBook Pro but it’s great. It’s perfectly fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey fine, perfectly serviceable. And it has four USB-C ports.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love that you started out with great and then you went to perfectly fine and then you went to perfectly serviceable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You’re not wrong. You’re not. No, it is great. In my opinion, it is really great. However, would you agree that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it’s fine? It is ultra fine, baby. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the stand is just as crappy as everyone says it is. It is so bad. Like I try to bring it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up to full height and I don’t know if maybe it’s because I have a couple of things plugged into it like Ethernet in the USB pre

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or excuse me, the USB mix, USB mix three. Uh, but whatever it is, when I raise

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the stand up to full height, you know, it just, and shrinks down like two inches,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just settles back in like an old desk chair that’s been at the office for too long. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is very funny to me and I might just get a visa, visa, whatever it’s called mount for it. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey let me tell you, based again on just a few minutes of use, it is so nice. pairing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the MacBook Pro, which is so fast, with this beautiful screen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that is basically the same as what I had in my iMac Pro. Like maybe it is on paper, but it’s effectively the same to my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey eyes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s nearby.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I am so happy having this thing here. This is so great and I’m so excited. The

⏹️ ▶️ Casey only problem I have with my computing life right now is for the longest time,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like that I was a Bluetooth unicorn. And so many people

⏹️ ▶️ Casey whine and moan about how like Bluetooth is garbage for peripherals and it’s always laggy and this and that and the other thing. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for years, I’ve never had this problem. And I feel like it may be all in my head, but I feel like I’m getting

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit of like stuttering and lag off of the new Magic Trackpad. And it’s brand new with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a brand new computer. So it’s gotta be like some interference or something. I don’t know. But it’s really bothering me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that it’s happening at all. So I’m hopeful I’ll be able to report in a week that it just has, it stopped. Or maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Casey once I unplug the iMac, that’ll fix it, who knows. But this happened before the LG for the record. the LG wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey here yet when I noticed this. But all told, I am so freaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happy with my computing life right now. I cannot overstate how happy I am. And the track, the touch

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ID and the keyboard works so well. The external keyboard, like I’m so happy, you guys. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so, so happy. My life is so good right now. Marco, let’s keep it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey up. Tell me how your life is.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s similarly really good. Good, good. Oh my God.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These computers are so good. So my current setup is, it’s basically what it was last week. I don’t think I changed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anything. I’m waiting on a couple of Thunderbolt hubs to come in to make this a little bit nicer. But the gist of it is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that right now I have my 16-inch desktop laptop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off to the side in a vertical clamshell stand, like some kind of wood

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing that stands up vertically. And I have it so the vent is on top, like the hinge, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screen hinge is on top. The downside of this, So there’s a little quirk about the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco design of these. If you’re gonna use it in like a vertical stand, the Apple logo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the MacBook Pro etching on the bottom are in opposite orientation. So no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matter how you stand it up, one of those is gonna be upside down. But the way I stand it up with the hinge on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco top, the Apple logo is upside down, but that doesn’t matter. That’s like facing into the speaker next to it, so I don’t see it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But so I have access to the ports on the side, on one side, and the other side I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like plugged into like the main docking stuff. So I have like, I can reach over and access my SD card slot because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that side of it’s facing me and it’s off to the right side of like my center monitor thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And anyway, it looks cool and it works really well and I figure having the hinge slash vent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on top should help convection cooling and help the fans not need to work as hard. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco occasionally I will be, like if I’m doing something intensive on the processor, I’ll reach my hand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over to see if I can feel hot air coming out the top and it’s never gotten and beyond

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like slightly warm. So this thing really does have a pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredible cooling system. I’ve never heard the fans as of yet. So far, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very happy with that. And the 14 inch has been my around the house, you know, workout

⏹️ ▶️ Marco FaceTime slash upstairs slash, you know, portable needs. And it’s been fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I did actually, I’m experimenting with a change. My

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPad is, it’s still the, it’s the first 11-inch model, which I believe was the 2018 model.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m barely using it anymore because frankly Mac laptops got so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much better than they were. And every time I use my iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wish it was a Mac laptop instead. And so I’m temporarily trying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to just use my M1 Air right in place of the iPad. So, in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the kitchen, on the counter, I ordered one of those little plastic keyboard overlays

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to try to keep some dust and crumbs out of it, because sometimes I’ll operate it with slightly damp hands, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe I’ll have something on my hands from cooking or something. But I’m trying just having that be the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air. And so far, I’m kind of loving it. So we’ll see,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I really don’t want to replace that iPad with another iPad,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just because I’m not iPad-ing enough. whatever value iPad power users get out of it as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like their like glorious everything machine, I’ve never really gotten there with it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think a MacBook Air in that context for me, especially since I already have it, like it’s not like I had to go buy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something separate. I already have these things. And it’s only a question of like, you know, which one do I give away

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slash sell slash trade at some point or save for my kid to have to use when he needs a laptop,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, something like that. But like, now that I had both in my house, it’s really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really nice to just have a small Mac on the kitchen counter

⏹️ ▶️ Marco instead of an iPad for my personal needs and preferences. Because so often

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’m doing anything on an iPad, I run into something where I’m like, oh, I gotta save this for next time I’m on a Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Or I could do this so much easier or better if I was on a Mac. And so now I’m just on a Mac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And it’s a lot nicer. So yeah, and it does feel like a little bit wasteful of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco such a powerful computer. But at the same time, if I bought a new iPad today,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would have similar processing power, and I would only be using it mostly to type notes and add stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Amazon in my shopping cart in the kitchen when I run into something. So it would be a waste of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computing potential either way. Might as well have the computer that I can do lots

⏹️ ▶️ Marco more stuff on that I need to do, as opposed to the one that I so often will hit a wall

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and be like, well, I guess I gotta save this for later.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I think the Mac is probably slightly more vulnerable to kitchen hazards than the iPad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yes, and that’s why I got, why I wrote that keyboard cover, and I know it’s still gonna be a little more vulnerable, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not a super big risk of getting wet, Casey. It’s more,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the bigger risk is just that my hands might be a little bit dirty while operating it, just because of where it is. It’s pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far from any water sources. But, and I also figure, because it’s the fanless MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air, that whatever ventilation it would get from sucking air in through the keyboard, it isn’t a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thing. So covering that keyboard with a plastic, you know, cover thing shouldn’t be a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, you talking about this reminded me of a couple things. First of all, at the moment, I’m currently

⏹️ ▶️ Casey running the MacBook Pro adjacent to the LG 5K. So I’m using two screens,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is the first time I’ve done this for more than a few minutes in a long time, and I’m not sure if I’m gonna stick with it. However,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m using, I think this is originally, it was a hand-me-down, I think it’s the 12 South Lake.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I forget what they called it. I’ll try to remember to get up for the show notes, but it’s a thing that lifts up an iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off the desk because iMacs are notorious for being way too low. And I’ve put my MacBook Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on that. So now my computer’s elevated off the desk. I hope you guys are very happy. Luke

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Gromen Oh, that’s good. So now you can you can spill up to like three inches of water and it’s not a problem. Jim

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Collison That’s true. And the only thing I have to worry about is my $310 of peripherals I just bought. right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And then actually, speaking of peripherals, I forgot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to mention earlier, I think we might have spoken about this before. So forgive me if I’m repeating us

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash myself. The peripherals come with braided USB-C to lightning cables, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are delightful. These are so nice. Yeah, they’re really nice. I don’t know if we talked about that before, but they’re so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey great. We did last week. Okay, I just want to make sure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco John’s in charge of telling us what’s on the show. It’s not that long ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I can’t remember what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I had for dinner. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you know what I said last week? I said, oh, we talked about this before. Remember when I was getting all braided cables for my Mac

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Pro and you said, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yeah. Oh gosh, I’m so sorry everyone.

MBP Xcode benchmarks

Chapter MBP Xcode benchmarks image.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, quick little update about the benchmarks on the new MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pros. When I last gave my benchmarks, I only had the 14-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M1 Pro version with the 16GB of RAM. I now have the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M1 Max, and I have the 16-inch which gives me the ability to run high power mode, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wanted to test low power mode as well. So here’s how that all went. Here’s how it all turned out. So, if you recall,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco compared to the M1 Mac Mini, this is using an overcast build, So, you know, Overcast is a moderately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sized app. It’s not huge, it’s not tiny, it’s a moderately sized app. It’s a lot of Swift and a lot of Objective-C.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And a clean build on an M1 takes about 30 seconds. On an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M1 Pro, it took about 19 seconds. So significantly faster.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And then on the M1 Max, it’s also 19 seconds. In fact, every

⏹️ ▶️ Marco test I ran, all the Xcode tests, clean build, incremental, large and small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of them took exactly the same amount of time, you know, give or take. I mean, this is like me, you know, mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco timing things like stopwatch based. So maybe like a half second imprecision, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they all had the same results. So I could not tell a difference. And I should note also, this is both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the M1 Pro and M1 Max had the same 10 CPU cores. I had not tested the like low

⏹️ ▶️ Marco end eight core model. So M1 Pro versus M1 Max, as far as I can tell,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for this kind of, you know, moderate developer workload, No difference between those two chips, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not really using the GPUs for anything, and it seems like the CPU needs are the same. Also,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no difference between 14-inch and 16-inch for this purpose. You know, the 16-inch does provide a much larger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cooling system, but that seems to mostly only be a benefit to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco GPU-heavy workloads that video people are doing, and I’m not doing any of those things. So for developers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would say any M1 Pro or M1 Max is going to be probably about the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for you. With the exception of that low-end 8-core model, again, that’s probably going to be a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slower. But it would still be really fast. And then finally, I decided to test high-power mode and low-power

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mode. High-power mode could not tell a difference at all with anything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this makes sense based on what we’ve been told about high-power mode. It seems like it doesn’t increase

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the clock speed of the chip or anything like that. All high power mode seems to do is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco run the fans at higher speed and allow them to run like even higher if necessary. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re doing some kind of like very heavy CPU and GPU sustained workloads

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like again like video people would do that’s when you’re looking at high power mode on the 16-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being a potential gain for you but for developers it seems to make no difference whatsoever at least nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I could notice. Finally low power mode I haven’t tested any kind of like battery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco impact on low power mode yet, because that battery test takes a very long time and I haven’t had time. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco performance wise, low power mode seems to be about 15%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slower than regular mode. So not, it is noticeable, but it’s not a big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco difference. You know, like my, my 19 second build took 21 seconds. Like it’s not, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this was pretty consistent. Like I could measure it over and over again and it stayed like exactly in the same range. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco low power mode, all the tests I did, about 15% slower. Which is interesting.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’d love to learn more about it, but that’s a small enough difference that I think if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it has a big battery impact, it would be totally fine to, for instance,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have it automatically switch to low power mode anytime it’s on battery, which is one of the settings you get in the power system

⏹️ ▶️ Marco prefix pane. You can have it always run low power mode when it’s on battery, or you can manually switch it whenever you feel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco necessary. Maybe if you’re on a flight or something like that. But right now, I set my 14-inch to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco low power mode on battery and I haven’t noticed any difference whatsoever. So maybe I’ll just get even ridiculously more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better battery life. So yeah, overall, very impressed. But it also doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seem to matter really which of these chips you get for developer workload, which is great news. That means

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can be more flexible in your buying decisions and kind of, you know, get whatever you want. I also did

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not notice a difference in this particular benchmark between the 16 gig and 64 gig of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco RAM option. But that being said, one more week of usage, I totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco notice a difference in my actual day-to-day usage having all this RAM. Because I’m not just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco running Xcode builds over and over again, I’m bouncing between lots of different apps. I have Logic, I have Xcode,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have Adobe’s garbage apps. Which by the way, I’ve, I briefly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco flirted with the idea of updating Quitter to terminate all of Adobe’s background crap processes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Instead, I just wrote a shell script and made launchd run it every 15 minutes. Nice. So it’s fine. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it works great. So I’ve totally solved my Adobe bloat problem with a shell script.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Maybe I’ll post it somewhere. I don’t know. Oh, that’s very nice.

Memory pressure

Chapter Memory pressure image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now as you’re talking about memory stuff, I’m looking at, so in iStat Menus, you can get a historical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey graph of your memory pressure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I didn’t know about that until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco few days ago. It’s great, so okay, anybody using iStat Menus, go turn on a memory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pressure widget, because it only records this graph if you have a widget on. But go

⏹️ ▶️ Marco turn on a memory widget of some kind in iStat Menus so the memory switch is enabled,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then you can see a history of your memory pressure up to 30 days

⏹️ ▶️ Marco since you’ve had it enabled. So you can actually see over time how much memory you might need.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Right, so I’m looking at my memory pressure since I got the computer. And I’ve been using it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty much full time since, I don’t know, day two or three. My iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Casey literally got moved off my desk like two or three days ago, poor thing. I love that computer so much, it pains me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey so much that it’s not my primary machine. But it’s not as fast. So anyways,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my memory pressure at its worst, would you gentlemen like to guess the percentage of memory pressure

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had at its worst? 10%. It’s stunning. Okay, Marcus at 10%, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John People were showing these graphs before and memory pressure is already a fuzzy thing. What the heck is the percentage? What

⏹️ ▶️ John does 100% memory pressure mean? This is all meaningless numbers. I have no idea what the number is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, my worst memory pressure was 5%. 5% of what? I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey know, but it’s not a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco I can tell you that. It’s low, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t, yeah. Mine’s nine.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know, it just made me laugh. And so I probably did not need, almost certainly did not need 64 gigs of RAM,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but no regrets. I am so happy that this machine, as obscenely expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as it and its stupid peripherals were, I am so happy with this computer, I cannot even tell you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I mean, I felt, I do think I felt equally happy with the iMac Pro when it was new, and actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to some degree, still to this day, it is such a nice computer. And I’m only slightly saying that because I want to sell it soon.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But it is such a nice computer. but being able to pick it up and move it without a Pelican case MKBHD

⏹️ ▶️ Casey style is also so freaking great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, the iMac Pro is and was amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in so many ways. We just have better computers now. Like, because the iMac Pro is also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty old. I mean, that was also, what was that, 2018 model? 2017, I think, right? Yeah, 2017, yeah, yeah. Like, that’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it’s been a while now and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was never updated. So, you know, that’s not recent anymore.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When it came out and for the many years following, it was fantastic. But, you know, obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this much time has passed, better things are going to come out.

16” vs. 14” thermals

⏹️ ▶️ John One final note on the 16 inch versus 14 inch. So there’s been lots of like hardware teardowns of these laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John now and people have done more extensive tests. And it’s about what you would expect. So the 16 inch,

⏹️ ▶️ John as Marco noted, it has a better cooling system. It has bigger heat pipes. It has bigger fans

⏹️ ▶️ John and there’s just plain more room in there. The air slots are bigger for entry and exit. And

⏹️ ▶️ John you can equip that computer with exactly the same system on a chip as you can in a 14 inch. So

⏹️ ▶️ John to no one’s surprise, the 14-inch has more trouble

⏹️ ▶️ John moving heat out of it and generally tends to get slightly hotter. That said, these

⏹️ ▶️ John laptops are so power efficient and the fans are so low RPM and so quiet, this

⏹️ ▶️ John is not a thing that you should worry about. This is only just to say that like, if you are wondering, does the 16-inch

⏹️ ▶️ John have higher cooling capacity than the 14? The answer is absolutely yes, it does. But it actually is extremely

⏹️ ▶️ John difficult to demonstrate that because you have to find a test that stresses every single part

⏹️ ▶️ John of the system on a chip. The CPU, the GPU, the memory subsystem, the SSD, stresses it all at the

⏹️ ▶️ John same time in a sustained manner and then run it for a long time and then carefully measure.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you do all of that, you can demonstrate that yes, under extreme situations, the 14-inch will thermally

⏹️ ▶️ John throttle by a tiny amount and the 16-inch simply won’t. So it makes me wonder, because high power

⏹️ ▶️ John mode is only on the 16-inch, right? Correct. It makes me wonder what the point of high power mode is

⏹️ ▶️ John if you can’t even get the 16 inch to throttle no matter what you throw at it. Like, oh, I’ll run the fans

⏹️ ▶️ John faster? Why bother running the fans faster? Apparently running the fans normally

⏹️ ▶️ John has no thermal throttling. So I don’t know, maybe there are some workloads that people haven’t found yet. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John the 16 inch does have a bigger, better cooler system, but it probably shouldn’t matter to you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wouldn’t it be kind of funny if high power mode is literally just like the door close button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on elevators? It’s just there to please the YouTubers.

⏹️ ▶️ John They very well could be. You can see the, well no, it actually does make the fans spin faster. People are doing all the little things

⏹️ ▶️ John that show you the actual fan RPM, and when you put on high power mode, the fans preemptively run a little bit faster, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the idle higher, essentially.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, sure, but maybe it doesn’t actually need to be that way for anything that anybody

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might actually do.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean, it may be that people just haven’t found the right workload, because people are just

⏹️ ▶️ John trying to find, what can I do that stresses everything? There are artificial ones that just,

⏹️ ▶️ John do a bunch of math on all of the units to try to make the thing melt. And I bet maybe one of those would make it, but

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, stressing the GPU as well would make it get hot. But yeah, this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What happens if you run Slack and Dropbox at the same time?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nothing can Marco, nothing can.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the thing though, like all like, oh, I’m doing, you know, if you do anything you think would normally cause your

⏹️ ▶️ John fans to spin up on an Intel laptop, it’s not going to on these, because all of those things that we talk about,

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t touch the GPU at all. It’s just something grinding your CPU. It’s grinding the CPU in these computers

⏹️ ▶️ John is not going to make them break a sweat. Most of the chip is covered with the GPU area and they’re so low power and the cooling

⏹️ ▶️ John system is so good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by revenue cat revenue cat

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco customer analytics, data integrations, all this giving you time back from dealing with

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco by developers for developers and frankly it shows. I’ve heard from

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lots of friends and other developers who use RevenueCat and everyone is extremely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco satisfied with it because I know how crappy it is to write in that purchase code. I’ve written tons

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it, especially when you get, you know, a little more edge case stuff like subscriptions which are now becoming more mainstream.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is hard stuff to write yourself. It’s hard to cover all the edge cases. It’s a pain in the butt to handle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things like the server-side side validation and all this stuff. It’s just complex and it’s stuff that you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the author of an app, shouldn’t usually need to worry about. So Revenue Cat makes so much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sense to help them take care of your payment system so that you can focus on your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco app and the thing that you actually wanna do. I’ve never met a developer, myself included, who enjoys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco writing or testing in-app purchase code. And so leave it to Revenue Cat, it is fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thousands of the world’s best apps use Revenue Cat to power their in-app purchases

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco to Revenue Cat for sponsoring our show.

iPhone-case mega-review

Chapter iPhone-case mega-review image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am really excited to hear your iPhone 13 Pro case review and there

⏹️ ▶️ Casey are like 34 different bullets in this document. So why don’t you run it through

⏹️ ▶️ Casey run through all of them with us, please.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right. So after great lengths and actually spending a good amount

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of time with each of these cases, I got a bunch of different iPhone 13 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cases, some of which have MagSafe, some of which and I finally have opinions,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I wanted to share them before this phone got too old, and it didn’t matter anymore. Where we last left off was,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I believe I had the Nudiant case that Casey, you also have. That’s what

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m still using.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, which is like, it’s like a kind of, you know, nice middle of the road, you know, it has

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MagSafe in it, like it has its own magnets. It’s kind of medium thickness,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco medium grip, kind of medium everything, medium attractiveness. Like it’s just kind of medium

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everything. It’s fine. It’s not amazing in any possible way, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally fine. One area that I was not happy with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Nudiant case though, is the first time I took it into my car

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the MagSafe magnet on it, it was not strong enough. I use a MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco car mount and it easily and repeatedly would fall off the mount if I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco applied a little bit of pressure to the bottom half of the screen, where it would lever itself

⏹️ ▶️ Marco off the mount, and the bottom of the screen often contains controls in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco apps like Waze that you might be using in the car. So that was kind of a big problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I decided, let me look at more cases, and I wasn’t super happy with the Nudian’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco appearance either. You know, it doesn’t look that good. It’s fine, it’s a piece of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco blue matte plastic. But it did feel pretty good, so I thought, you know, this is good, but let me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco see if I can do better. I also, I did try using the Apple silicone case a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit more. I gave up on it. It’s too much friction going in and out of pockets. I thought it might

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be different this time for some reason. I don’t know, maybe I’m just, you know, hoping for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things that will never come. But I think just materially, that’s never going to be good. It’s never gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not have a lot of friction going in and out of pockets with that material. So whatever, you know, a lot of people use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco silicone case and enjoy it. More power to you, it’s not for me, for my needs. I would also say that the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple Silicon case, I got that blue jay color, thinking it would look kinda cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It actually kinda looks flat and cheap. I think one thing I have learned in this process,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco these inexpensive materials that are used in cases, you’re best off with darker colors.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Kinda like John’s theory of bad car body design, or like cheap paint or whatever it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is, light colors kind of show how low value

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the material is?

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it’s the shape. My theory for cars is the lighter the color, the more you’re able to actually see the shape of the

⏹️ ▶️ John car. Whereas you have a car in all black, it hides some of the curves, which may be undesirable.

⏹️ ▶️ John Same thing with clothes. If you’re trying to, you know, accentuate curves, bright colors, if you want to hide them dark.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I should buy more dark clothes then. So I learned kind of like the lighter colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was going for didn’t often look good in these cases. and I’ll get to a little bit more of that in a second.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco After the Apple Silicone case and the Nudient, I was kind of like, eh, let me see what I can do. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco asked people on Twitter and people on the show wrote in, and I got a number of recommendations. There were a couple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I could not test, because they either aren’t in stock yet, or I ordered them and haven’t arrived

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet. One of those is the Bullstrap leather case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m actually not entirely sure I want leather anymore, but I did actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pre-order one of these things forever ago. It still hasn’t shipped. It was estimated

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for, you know, quote November, so it could show up any time. And then I also, many people recommended

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Pitaka MagEase case series. And that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is not available for the iPhone 13 Pro yet in the blue color,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which is the color I would want. The rest of them are kinda, it kinda looks like carbon fiber-y. It’s not like a super

⏹️ ▶️ Marco attractive look, if I’m honest.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, no it’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I didn’t test either of those, even though they both came with a lot of recommendations. So anyway, moving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on to what I did test. Everyone suggested that I try Peel. Peel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a apparently famous brand of ultra thin cases. I decided,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, I went to the super thin Peel iPhone 13 Pro case and I decided to, they had a color that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was advertised as jet white. It says it has a glossy finish, closely resembling the jet black

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone finish, but in white. And I thought, well, that’s interesting. I loved the jet black

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iPhone, and I wanted to see, like, does this actually feel that way? So, sure enough-

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey white just happened to you, did it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It just so happened to be white. Isn’t that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey something? That can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happen. That’s something that does happen from time to time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, isn’t that something? So, first of all, I have to, before

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the case even arrived, I had gotten a mailing list email from Peale

⏹️ ▶️ Marco entitled, quote, let’s talk about lifestyle. That was apparently the first

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a planned series of emails about minimalism. And I felt like that was overreaching

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the nature of our relationship as, I just ordered your $35 iPhone case, that’s it. It

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hasn’t even arrived yet. I don’t want your emails about your minimalism theories. Like that’s fine, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really don’t need that, thank you. So, oh, and thanks also for opting me into your email list without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having a checkbox I could see. That’s real cool, Peel. And then when the Peel case arrived,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it arrived in a box the size of a shoe box

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with tons of packaging material. Like, it was so, I’m like, okay, as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco far as I can tell, Peel is a mostly, maybe a marketing company,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because one thing I also tried from people’s recommendations

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the Total E with two E’s, Total, two L’s, two E’s, Total E matte case.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Wait, I’m sorry, what color was the matte case?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was also, sorry, pearl white is the color I got.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just keeps happening to you, Marco, isn’t that weird?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had the theory that maybe a white case would look good. You know, I’m living my beach

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lifestyle, I got a lot of light colors here, you know, like white, blue, like, you know, a lot of like light colors

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are going on in my current life right now. So I thought maybe that would be cool. So I got the Totally case, it came with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way less packaging and I was not subject to any minimalism emails and I had to put a post-it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco note on the Peel and the Totally just so I could tell them apart, just so I could tell which one was which rather,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because these things are identical. I would be shocked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if these were not the same case. This is the same case made in the same factory, I guarantee it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco There is no way that it’s two different cases. So anyway, Totally appears to just be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same, Whatever factory they’re using, it’s the same. And they even have the same color options and everything. So as far as I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can tell, this is the same thing. So if one of them appeals to you more than the other one, go for it. The prices

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are around the same. It doesn’t, you know, who knows? So anyway, Peel and Totally,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both of these white cases feel okay. They’re very thin,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as promised. They look like garbage. If you’re gonna get one of these cases, get a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dark colored one because it’s just a thin piece of plastic. It looks like I wrapped my phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in heat shrink tubing and ran a blow dryer over it. Like that’s, it’s not a great look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it feels okay, but it’s like, I can do a lot better than this. Now, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also ordered from Totally, their transparent soft

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clear, so it’s a soft clear, I don’t know, yeah, clear soft is what they call it in their options.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco By the way, Peel now also offers that exact same configuration. What a coincidence. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the clear, the soft clear Totally case, I absolutely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco love. I never thought I would. So the downside to the soft clear Totally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case is that it does not have a MagSafe circle. Neither do the UltraThin, by the way.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So none of these have MagSafe, and it’s a little bit thicker than the UltraThin one, but it has,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s like a gummy case. You know, if you’ve, there’s people who’ve been making phone cases out of this for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years. I don’t know, I think it might be like a thick, soft TPU or something. I don’t know what this material

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is officially called, but if you’ve ever felt like a rugged case, like in an Apple store,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like from whatever brand sells like the little ruggedized ones, it has that feel to it. So it’s actually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it feels kind of like a, like a non-sticky gummy candy, if that makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But the result is, first of all, it looks amazing because I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my little like, you know, baby blue iPhone Pro in there, and you get to see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the iPhone through it. Now you don’t really see the side bands very well.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like just the design of the material is such that you don’t see much of the detail through the sides.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you do see the back color totally fine. And it looks fantastic

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it feels the best. This is by far the nicest feeling case

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I have. Again, the only downside here is no mag safe, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also recognize that putting a MagSafe circle of magnets in the back would also kind of make it uglier.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I understand, just like the Apple case, right? So I understand why they didn’t do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If the Apple case, the Apple clear case, I mean, if it was squishy plastic like this, instead of the hard

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plastic that it is, that would be perfect. And I would get that every single time now, because I love the way this looks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I love the way it feels.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m very surprised by this. So it’s the totally iPhone 13 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Casey transparent, clear, soft. Like, that’s not necessarily the name, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I just want to make sure I’ve got all of these right. Correct. And so, how soft is the soft? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if it’s clear plastic, I’m having troubles computing how this can be soft.

⏹️ ▶️ John Look at the picture. They show someone bending it. Like, one of the pictures shows it bending, to give you an

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey idea.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John okay. Yeah. What do you

⏹️ ▶️ John call it? OtterBox makes cases of this type, too. My daughter’s phone has a case like this.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, OtterBox. There was that one brand, I forget what it was, but it had that like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco strip of yellow around the outside band for like a they had a case band for a while

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like an impact strip or whatever they told him in apple stores adam had a an ipad case like that a while ago

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it feels just like that like you if you’ve you’ve probably felt this material before in an iphone case or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an ipad case like it’s not this is not a new revelation this is a common material i just don’t know what it’s called but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it is it is awesome and i love how how it feels. I do worry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a little bit that because it’s so flexible, you could easily just scoot it over

⏹️ ▶️ Marco away from the case with your finger, like around the edges, and I worry that maybe a lot of dust might get in the edges that way.

⏹️ ▶️ John What you should be worried about is moisture, because I’ve seen this happen again with my daughter’s phone. If you get kind of, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it looks like a water stain or like water trap between, condensation trap between the case and the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, yeah. It can happen. I mean, you can either just live with it or you can take the case off and scrub

⏹️ ▶️ John it out and try to be more careful. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco mean, wouldn’t that be a problem with any case? And wouldn’t a clear case actually alert you to the problem earlier so you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John could fix it?

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, but you wouldn’t see it with a real case. Like it makes it uglier. It’s an aesthetic issue, not a water danger issue.

⏹️ ▶️ John It just looks like, you know, especially if it’s just clear. Like my daughter’s is made of this material, but it also has

⏹️ ▶️ John like designs painted on it, but it’s mostly clear. But if it was just entirely,

⏹️ ▶️ John it also depends on what color the phone is. It’s an aesthetic issue. It doesn’t bother you. I bet people get this and never care that

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s like a weird, you know, area that’s darker or lighter because of some condensation

⏹️ ▶️ John that was there once or whatever. But you know, you can always take it off and clean it, but just that can’t happen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I didn’t know that. Okay, thanks. Yeah, so I spent most of the time in the intervening,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, time between when we last talked about this and now I’ve spent most of that time with this case on, because it’s the one I’m happiest

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with overall with the exception of no MagSafe. And that’s a big exception, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feels so good and looks pretty good otherwise, I was willing to make that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco exception when I wasn’t driving. But that being said, when I switch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco back to this case in a minute, after I review the other one I have here in a second,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I gotta figure out, I think I might just have to keep a different case that has MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my backpack that I bring when I go on car trips, so that I can swap cases

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when I’m in the car. I mean, I’m not driving every day, I’m driving every three weeks, so it’s not that big of a deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, so that’s the totally clear soft case. love it but no magsafe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then finally a few people recommended the I don’t have pronounced Caudabe,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Caudabe? I don’t know it’s C-A-U-D-A-B-E. Oh and I should mention to the peel and totally have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no branding whatsoever which is great the Caudabe has a small logo

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this the Caudabe case is not attractive it has like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a almost like a pebbled or textured plastic finish it kind of looks and feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like a popcorn ceiling. It’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my. And it’s moderately, it’s like medium thickness. It’s not an ultra thin case. It almost feels like coarse

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sandpaper. But what’s nice about it is that the overall grippiness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and tackiness of it is actually fairly similar to leather, I would say. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco having used leather phone cases for many years, I think this is very close to leather without being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leather, which has some benefits, you know, and things like water resistance and, you know, humanitarian, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco issues and environmental issues. So this is, this is pretty nice functionally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it has very strong MagSafe magnets. So I love it for that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It just is kind of boring and ugly looking if I’m honest. And it’s not, it doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feel nice. It just feels functional and it’s highly functional. And after like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a, I’ve had it on for about a week and after about a day, I stopped caring about how nice it wasn’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it does work really well, but it’s not like, it doesn’t give me the nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feelings that the clear one did. The clear one both looks and feels better,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it doesn’t have MagSafe. And this has like the strongest MagSafe of anything I’ve tested. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall, the Caudet Ricotta Bay sheath case, I like it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t love it. This might be the one that I put in my backpack for car trips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it has such good MagSafe. But I think I’m gonna switch back to the totally clear case for my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the time case. That being said, a few people recommended an option that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hadn’t considered, that I didn’t even know existed, and once I heard about it, it made perfect sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey A sack, you put the phone in a sack anytime you’re not using it. A

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pouch, I believe. No, it’s bumpers,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John bumper cases, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, so an option I didn’t even realize existed. For very cheap amounts

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of money, you can go on Amazon or eBay and buy MagSafe rings of magnets that you can

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stick onto anything. Oh my goodness. And so I got a couple of them here, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sure enough, they work totally fine. And you can therefore,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco technically, you could convert a non-MagSafe case into a MagSafe case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re putting them on the outside of the case, to be clear, right? Well, you could do either. Now, here’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the problem. I put them on the inside of the case. You can either

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stick them on the outside, which would work great in the sense that it would stick really well for MagSafe,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but then you have a ring of magnets stuck to your case that you have to feel all the time and look

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at all the time. And I don’t want to feel or look at a ring of MagSafe magnets on the outside of my case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you put it on the inside of the case, now I feel like you’ve created

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a glass breaking risk on that back glass because you’re introducing by putting something that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moderately thick between the case and the phone, which are made to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no tolerance between them,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? You made a place to catch all the excess moisture and now crumbs and the edges of the

⏹️ ▶️ John magnets can scratch the back of your phone and you’re distending the case, which is gonna make it fit less well.

⏹️ ▶️ John This is all bad.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Right, yeah. So I tried it on the inside for like five minutes and I’m like, no, I can’t do this. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not.

⏹️ ▶️ John So. It’s like having like a seed stuck between your teeth constantly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so I couldn’t abide that. So for now, I couldn’t find

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a use for the two little magnet sheets I bought on Amazon, but it is a cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option to know you can do that. And at some point, maybe this might be useful for a project, like if I wanted to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a place to stick an iPhone with MagSafe somewhere, like that could be useful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John So you

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t try bumper cases?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t try bumper cases, no. My assumption is that it would increase the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pocket friction in and out problem because it would have to be fairly thick to even stay on and work.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But maybe, I haven’t tried a modern bumper. Maybe I could be wrong.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think the pocket friction would definitely be a thing. You’re probably right. But it’d be interesting to

⏹️ ▶️ John try one, just see what it’s like. I mean, the obvious downside is you’re still gonna screw up the back of your phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you’ll scratch it up or whatever, but hopefully you won’t break it because the bumpers usually do stick out pretty far

⏹️ ▶️ John from the front and the back. And I think it will also make your phone feel bigger than one of these cases, just

⏹️ ▶️ John because, again, the bumper to do its job, its whole point is to stick out beyond the back and beyond the front

⏹️ ▶️ John by enough to catch your phone and absorb the impact. And I think that’ll make your phone feel thicker, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I still have fond memories of the iPhone 4, 4S, whatever it was, bumper.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John same.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I should also clarify, buttons-wise, both the KataBay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco case and the squishy clear case, both have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco covered buttons, and both of them cover them with nice plastic buttons. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not metal, it’s the same material as the case, it seems, but they’re nice. They’re nicely covered.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Only the mute switch is uncovered on both, and otherwise covered. Also, all of these have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco covered bottoms. So, sorry, John. I know you like your naked bottoms.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, no, I don’t have an iPhone 13 anyways, so

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t care, but yeah, they’re all covered bottoms, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco no good. Yeah, so very happy with the Kotabe and the clear squishy totally,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for two very different reasons. Kotabe works really well, has the best MagSafe I’ve found,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but is kind of ugly and not very nice feeling. The TPU, you know, squishy,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco totally clear case, is awesome and looks and feels great, but has no MagSafe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s it. Those are the two I’m gonna stick with, I think for the time being.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Caseta by Lutron smart

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco act smart. And there’s all sorts of ways why this is great. You know, smart bulbs

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are not really compatible with non-nerds in my experience. Like, you know, if kids

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or other family members or spouses or visitors flip the switch off to that light,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all of a sudden you can’t control it anymore. Or if there is no switch or you’ve kind of taped over it or blocked it off, they don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know how to turn the light on. Caseta switches solve this problem. The switch itself is smart, but to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone else, it’s just a light switch on the wall. So you can control it through all of your smart stuff, whatever you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do. You can automate, it has HomeKit, everything else, but when someone comes over, all they see

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a button on the wall and they can just push it and it just works every single time. Of course,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they support everything you might need, voice assistance, apps, automations and everything. They

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a smart away feature that can randomly turn lights on and off during the evening to make it look like you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco home, even if you’re not. You can base scenes on things like sunset time, so that’s what we have. We

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have our lights turn on a certain amount of time before or after sunset, because that’s when you actually need some of the outdoor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff to work. It’s just super great. And as we talked about last week, I love Lutron Caseta.

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to Caseta for turning all my lights on and off in a very smart way and for sponsoring our show.

Next-gen MBP hopes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John, I think you in particular wanted to talk about, hey, you know, let’s assume for a second that these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook Pros were not perfect because man, they sure seem like they are. What could you do to make them better, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, because we’ve just done a couple of shows a couple of weeks talking about how these laptops have fulfilled all

⏹️ ▶️ John our wildest dreams and everything we wanted came true on them and they, you know, they’re great. And

⏹️ ▶️ John all of that is true. But people may be thinking, well, now that they’ve perfected the laptops, you’ll never

⏹️ ▶️ John have to talk about them again because the laptop problem is solved. But of course, nothing is so perfect. These laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco when they’re released,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s very clear that there are things about them that could be upgraded. But this is good. The things I’m going to list

⏹️ ▶️ John off here, and it’s not a lot of them, are going to be the things that you would expect of any technology

⏹️ ▶️ John product. When a technology product comes out, even if it is as perfect as it can be, which these laptops are

⏹️ ▶️ John not necessarily, but they’re really good, but not as perfect as they can be, technology marches on.

⏹️ ▶️ John And eventually there are better things you can put in them. And so rather than the past many years, we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John had gnashing our teeth about the fundamental design of these products in terms of what features

⏹️ ▶️ John does the product have? What shape is it? What holes does it have on the side like really basic stuff?

⏹️ ▶️ John We have the luxury now of talking about computers the way we used to be able to talk about them with is, let’s talk

⏹️ ▶️ John about the actual technology in them and see if there is an ever so slightly better technology that they can replace it with. So

⏹️ ▶️ John if you look at these MacBook Pros and say, hey, in next year’s model or the year after or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ John in what ways could these be improved? Here are the list of obvious improvements, some of which we have touched upon before.

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve got an SD card slot now, that SD card slot does not support all of the latest

⏹️ ▶️ John SD card standards. Not a big deal, because most people don’t have the high end ones. In fact, some of these standards

⏹️ ▶️ John are so new that you can’t even find cards that support them yet, but

⏹️ ▶️ John the one in the MacBook Pros is like, it supports UHS-II speeds, I believe.

⏹️ ▶️ John UHS-III is out, SD Express is out. The other thing to consider for

⏹️ ▶️ John the SD card slot is some, like Sony cameras have a slot, have

⏹️ ▶️ John two slots in some of them, that takes either an SD card or a CFexpress

⏹️ ▶️ John Type-A card. CFexpress Type-A is a little bit obscure. I think only Sony cameras use it, but the point is you can

⏹️ ▶️ John actually have one slot that takes both SD cards and ZF Express. Any one of these updates, either

⏹️ ▶️ John just make the SD card fast slot faster by supporting SD Express or UHS-III, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Or make it a combo slot that supports both. That’s an easy upgrade. You’ve already got the slot, it’s there,

⏹️ ▶️ John make it faster and better. And the speed differences are big, like the UHS-II

⏹️ ▶️ John is 156 megabytes per second, UHS-III is 312 megabytes per second. That’s full duplex, so double those if you use all the bandwidth in one direction.

⏹️ ▶️ John CF Express goes from like a one gigabyte per second up to four gigabytes

⏹️ ▶️ John per second. So there’s lots of headroom to make that SD slot better. So that’s good, let’s upgrade that.

⏹️ ▶️ John In the same vein, HDMI, we’re complaining that it’s not HDMI 2.1. What’s an obvious upgrade? Hey,

⏹️ ▶️ John in the next round of these with the M2 Max and M2 Pro or whatever, make the HDMI support,

⏹️ ▶️ John the HDMI port support HDMI 2.1, 120 Hertz, 4K, HDR,

⏹️ ▶️ John all the good stuff. put in a better chip that converts from DisplayPort to HDMI 2.1

⏹️ ▶️ John or whatever. Again, we’re not saying you need to fundamentally change anything, it’s just you’ve got an HDMI port, you can

⏹️ ▶️ John make that HDMI port fit better. One more easy one. Camera. Hey, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a 1080p camera, that’s great, but, you know, Logitech sells 4K

⏹️ ▶️ John cameras, maybe it’s hard to fit one of those in the tiny skinny screen lid, I understand that. If you can’t fit in a

⏹️ ▶️ John 4K camera, then maybe you find a way to get a wide angle camera so you can support center stage.

⏹️ ▶️ John the camera can be better. We should continue to ask for the camera to improve. We should not be stuck

⏹️ ▶️ John with another decade of that same cruddy camera in there, even though, yes, I know they just updated it.

⏹️ ▶️ John The screen, now we start to get into sort of optional extra stuff. The screen, it’s great, everyone loves the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John There was a time when the MacBook Pro offered you an option for a glossy or matte screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco The iMac’s still right. You can get

⏹️ ▶️ John the iMac with a nanotexture screen, right? The big one. Yep, and of course the XDR

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a ridiculously expensive nanotexture screen. Whether it’s nanotexture or just plain old matte, for professionals,

⏹️ ▶️ John some people might prefer a matte screen. That would be a cool option to have. That’s something we can roll out in the next

⏹️ ▶️ John generation if there is any demand for it. Or even just improving the anti-glare coating that’s on the screen,

⏹️ ▶️ John something in that vein, right? Cellular, we didn’t get to this year, we still seem

⏹️ ▶️ John to think it’s possible. You know, iPads have it, they’re very similar on the inside now. It would be cool to

⏹️ ▶️ John have cellular. Hell yeah. Yeah. Ethernet on the power brick. There’s no room on the other side

⏹️ ▶️ John of these machines because they’re too skinny. You can get an adapter or dongle to do it. MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John doesn’t seem like it has a way to convey ethernet to the power brick. So maybe this would have to be a USB-C.

⏹️ ▶️ John You know, you couldn’t use MagSafe if you wanted ethernet on the power brick. Maybe you could do an optional. Hey, this is like, I think the first

⏹️ ▶️ John year that Apple’s gave us an option to choose power bricks. So maybe one of the options could be forgo MagSafe

⏹️ ▶️ John in exchange for a USB-C power brick, but you know, or a power brick with ethernet on it, with USB-C

⏹️ ▶️ John on both ends that is essentially a Thunderbolt cable of some kind. That would probably be weird and expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ John But that would be an interesting potential option. And the final one, and we’re really reaching to the bottom of the barrel here, is

⏹️ ▶️ John for like, what, is there anything people don’t like about this machine physically speaking? Some people still think the trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ John is too big. I know that seems weird. Isn’t a bigger trackpad better? It’s nicer to sort of swipe around?

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s about accidental input. A lot of people will find it difficult to use this laptop without accidentally

⏹️ ▶️ John touching the trackpad. And yes, Mac OS has sort of accidental input rejection, but those features

⏹️ ▶️ John sometimes are a little bit unreliable and can be more annoying

⏹️ ▶️ John than useful. And, but if you turn them off, you have to deal with your own accidental input. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m not, I mean, have they struck the right balance between comfortable, useful trackpad

⏹️ ▶️ John size and avoiding accidental input? They may think about adjusting that, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just excited to be here to list off this thing, this list of obvious improvements and

⏹️ ▶️ John have them be just like technological improvements. Oh, and you know, I could add things like Thunderbolt 5, which probably won’t be out in time for

⏹️ ▶️ John this, but like, but yeah, like we feel like you’ve got the, you’ve got it right. Like, you know, you’ve got the design

⏹️ ▶️ John of this product right. It’s like, you know, a car, it’s got an engine, it’s got wheels, next year just make the engine faster and get better fuel

⏹️ ▶️ John economy and make the body nicer looking, make the seats more comfortable, like all the normal stuff that

⏹️ ▶️ John we expect to happen year over year. And these machines, despite us being, you know, like a

⏹️ ▶️ John glass of ice water in hell for us, right? despite them being, oh, thank God, they finally fixed everything about the computers.

⏹️ ▶️ John Almost every single thing they put in them, because these computers were designed years ago and technology markets on, could

⏹️ ▶️ John be upgraded. And I basically listed them in the order of, I think, their usefulness,

⏹️ ▶️ John and getting down to trackpad shrink and matte screens or whatever, but yeah, to upgrade all the ports. If

⏹️ ▶️ John make Thunderbolt faster when you can, make the SD card slot better because it’s already kind of slow, make HDMI better,

⏹️ ▶️ John make a better camera, all that good stuff. And so we are on the other side

⏹️ ▶️ John of the valley of doubt, whatever we were calling it before, the valley of doom for these laptops. And now we can just

⏹️ ▶️ John start asking for them to be better in plain old boring technical ways.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Which is a great place to be. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey yeah. I’m not complaining.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Remember back at, I mean, this show existed for a few years before the terrible 2016

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptops came out. There was a time when we were just kind of like, oh, you know what?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This thing hasn’t updated in a while. Whenever you update it next, hey, wouldn’t it be great to have this XYZ?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is a wonderful place to be.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, couldn’t agree more.

Big-iMac SOC?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so in this kind of similar vein to what we were just talking about, but a corollary of it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if we were to make new iMacs today, let’s just concentrate on the CPUs.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey What system on a chip would you put in an iMac these days, John?

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s been a lot of discussion about that. And I just want to reiterate a point that we’ve made in the past, because it seems like people are

⏹️ ▶️ John getting stars in their eyes with all the rumors of the Jade 2C and 4C die

⏹️ ▶️ John of of like, you know, basically taking multiples of the M1 Macs and

⏹️ ▶️ John just putting two or four of them inside the thing. Like, that’ll be great for an iMac. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John want people to sort of come back to earth a little bit by just reminding everyone that the exact

⏹️ ▶️ John same chips that they put in these laptops, the M1 Pro and the M1 Macs, are perfectly

⏹️ ▶️ John fine for a big iMac. It doesn’t mean that there won’t be a bigger, battered chip, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying if you get, if they sell, you know, an iMac with a big screen on it, right? With a big,

⏹️ ▶️ John really nice HD, like take the 16 inch laptop screen and blow it up to 27 or 30 inches, like that

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of quality screen. And then just literally take the insides of the laptops and put them in an even better

⏹️ ▶️ John cooling solution than an iMac. There’s nothing wrong with that computer. These are the appropriate

⏹️ ▶️ John chips for an iMac. Because remember, the iMac doesn’t have to be the pro computer, whether they call it iMac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John or not or whatever, it doesn’t have to be a pro. And I wouldn’t, I think the iMac with a big screen

⏹️ ▶️ John would be a worse product if you couldn’t get these laptop chips in it. Because the M1 Pro and

⏹️ ▶️ John the M1 Max are great chips for, yes, a desktop computer, because they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John that good, right? Yes, if you can get a J2C die in there and have it be like

⏹️ ▶️ John the iMac Pro that has twice as many cores. Great, you can do that too, depending on how big you wanna make the iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you’re trying to make it as skinny as a 24 inch, you might be a little constrained. But I just want everyone to

⏹️ ▶️ John stop thinking that the new iMac, the new big iMac is going to come

⏹️ ▶️ John out and it’s not going to share chips with these laptops. It has to, it will, it must, unless it’s gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John be out like two years from now. Cause these chips are perfect for an iMac,

⏹️ ▶️ John for a slim, quiet, all-in-one, you know, desk, yes, desktop

⏹️ ▶️ John computer. It doesn’t have to be as thin as the 24 inch, it can be thicker than that, hell, it can be as thick as the 16 inch

⏹️ ▶️ John laptop it wants, but the M1 Macs, thumbs up for that in an iMac. And also thumbs

⏹️ ▶️ John up obviously for doubling that or quadrupling it or whatever. You wanna do the big honking chip in the iMac, I’m all for it,

⏹️ ▶️ John I love it, it’s great. But if you don’t, that’s fine too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, because if you look at historically, if you rule out the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac Pro for a minute, the large iMac for years

⏹️ ▶️ Marco before that and after that always had roughly the performance envelope

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the 15 inch MacBook Pro. it usually had like similarly classed chips, but the desktop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco version of those chips, but you had generally similar core counts, similar performance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The iMac could go a little bit higher with everything because it had more power and more heat,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thermal transfer capacity, but for the most part, the iMac and the 15-inch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco MacBook Pro were usually like very closely performing. They were in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same performance class.

⏹️ ▶️ John In CPU, the iMacs tended to have way better GPUs just because they had more cooling capacity.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sure, right. But, so I think for the large iMac, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still, you know, that’s still an unanswered question on how that’s going to move to Apple Silicon, but for the large

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac, I think it is almost certain that it will have these exact chips in it. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the only question mark is why we haven’t seen it released yet, and that might be as simple as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they sell way more laptops, and maybe they wanted, maybe they didn’t have enough M1 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and Mac’s chip capacity to release both of those products at once, so maybe the iMac will come in the spring

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or something like that. Or maybe there’s some other thing they’re waiting on for the iMac or whatever. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, I’m with you. I don’t expect the Jade 2C and 4C kind of thing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t expect that for the iMac, and I don’t expect there to be something like the iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro in the past, in the sense that it was the Mac Pro’s processors in an iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If we get that as an option, that’s great. And I’m not gonna complain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if we get that, but I’m also, I wouldn’t hold my breath for that. Because I think what we’re seeing here

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really quite elegant. We have a large slice of Apple’s product line

⏹️ ▶️ Marco using the M1. We have now a moderately sized slice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the product line using the larger version of that, the M1 Pro slash Max.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And in the future down the road, we will most likely see the Mac Pro offering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the big multi-die version of that, however they choose to do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think that’s the only computer we’re going to see that in. I think it’s only going to be the Mac Pro where we get that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big, because I think that’s going to be a very expensive processor for them to make. However they do it, whether it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one giant die or whether it’s chiplets or whatever, stuff we don’t really know that much about,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco however they do it, it’s going to be big and expensive. So putting that in a Mac Pro makes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco total sense putting it in a like two thousand ish dollar 27 or 30

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch iMac makes a lot less Financial sense

⏹️ ▶️ John if they have a product called iMac Pro I can see j2c die in there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I I think first of all it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Apple silicon

⏹️ ▶️ Marco transition of the large iMac is called iMac Pro Even if it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t have the Mac Pro chips in it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I mean these chips are using Pro So, you know, MacBook has pro at the end of it as well in these chips.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so that’s why I think we’re moving towards a future, actually probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a pretty near future, where the MacBook Pro and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco large iMac, which might be called the iMac Pro, will use the same chip. And then the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco smaller MacBook and the smaller iMac will use the same chip, which by the way, iPads,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the high-end iPads also use that chip. And then the phone and the low-end iPads

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the A series of chips. And then the watch and the HomePods use the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S series of chips. These are all scaled up and scaled down versions of very similar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco basic building blocks of the basic core designs. And that allows them to spread

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out the R&D costs massively, that they’re doing all this R&D anyway for the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone processor, and they get to spread it across their entire product line. That’s an incredible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco scale thing they’re doing and it’s very clever and it’s resulting in really great output. But I think what this ultimately

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will lead to for us customers is fewer choices of how many

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different processors are gonna be in the products. So I don’t expect there to be a lot of variation here. Frankly,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the only reason I think we have variation now with the M1 Pro and Max and the different core counts and everything, I think it’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco binning issue. And as the manufacturing process of these gets better, some of those options

⏹️ ▶️ Marco might go away. like some of the low end options might just disappear.

⏹️ ▶️ John And depending on what choices they make for the industrial design of the big iMac, it

⏹️ ▶️ John is possible that they could clock them higher and heat them up more because you can put a hell of a lot more cooling

⏹️ ▶️ John in a behind like 27 inch or 30 inch screen, if you choose to. If they go super duper thin,

⏹️ ▶️ John then it’ll probably just be clocked like the lap, like the laptops are or whatever. But, you

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco know,

⏹️ ▶️ John as that events from the 16 inch having a little bit more headroom than the 14 inch one under a super duper load, that’s how,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you might think, Why would anyone buy an iMac? It’s not differentiating itself. It’s a desktop computer, but the laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John are just as fast. The iMac can be faster if Apple chooses to make it. You know, just clock it higher,

⏹️ ▶️ John burn off more heat, put bigger fans, like there’s plenty of room.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that’s a good point. And historically, you know, when the iMac has been faster than the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro, usually it’s faster, you know, excluding GPU stuff, usually it’s faster by,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, not a massive percentage, maybe 10% or something like, you know, not usually a very, very big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco deal. And so they could get that kind of gain by just minor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco clock and cooling changes if they wanted to, but still using the same chip. So that wouldn’t surprise me if they do that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But if you look at the M1 iMac, I think performs exactly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same as all the other M1 Macs, right? Or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John is it like slightly faster? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco thinner than all the others. I know, right? It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John extremely, that computer is extremely thin. I really hope the big iMac, they don’t try to go for that thinness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s honestly, I’m really curious how they’re going to do that, because I’m sure they are tempted to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because they have the ability now. If you look at the MacBook Pros, they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pretty damn thin and you could make an iMac Pro that thickness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and have all the same guts. Keep in mind, all the previous,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all the Intel iMac cases were designed to accommodate spinning hard drives and 3.5

⏹️ ▶️ Marco inch spinning hard drives at that, big ones. So that’s why they have that giant hump in the back and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they had larger cooling needs most of the time. When the iMac Pro came out, the iMac Pro never supported a spinning

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hard drive, but they replaced that, they kind of used that interior volume they had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to put this massive cooling system in so they could put Xeons in there. With

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever they do with the Apple Silicon ones, they won’t need to do that anymore. They have both no spinning drives. By

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way, the 21-inch iMac that had the spinning drive and was non-retina was finally discontinued, like last week. Yay!

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We finally, Apple stopped selling spinning hard drives like last week. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and then on retina screen, I believe that also had. So we finally finished the retina transition nine

⏹️ ▶️ Marco years into it. My goodness. Oh no, more than that. If you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco count retina starting with the iPhone 4 instead of the 15 inch MacBook Pro, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco began in 2010. So anyway, but if you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco retina transition on Macs took nine years to complete. Anyway, so,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, they can, physically they can go ultra thin on the iMac,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the large iMac slash iMac Pro as well if they wanted to. And the only question would become like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where do they put ports and stuff like that?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John What do they

⏹️ ▶️ John put the SD card slot?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Huh? This

⏹️ ▶️ John is gonna be a test of like, what lessons have they learned? Like they had many years of complaining about the laptops.

⏹️ ▶️ John Have people, you know, they haven’t removed, I mean, they removed it from the little iMac, but like, ah, it’s a little iMac and it’s so

⏹️ ▶️ John thin you can’t even fit a USB-A port on the back of it and you can’t put a headphone, you know, like we understand

⏹️ ▶️ John that product. It’s the consumer product, it’s thin for, mostly for fashion reasons, we excuse it, we

⏹️ ▶️ John allow it. But if they replace all of the big iMacs with iMacs that are as thin as

⏹️ ▶️ John that small one and you can’t put a headphone jack on the back and you can’t put USB-A and you can’t fit SD, and it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John then why did you make a big one, right? So I do hope they don’t go quite that thin.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I hope you’re right because the large iMac served me well for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so long and it served so many people well for so long because it just was an amazing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco balance of like pro quality performance like pro performance levels even before the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac Pro itself like really pro performance levels for many definitions of pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and ridiculous capacity for you know for performance and cooling and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all these ports and it was it was just a fantastic line of computers and I hope

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When they I hope the next version of the large iMac doesn’t reduce the utility

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of it At the expense of coolness that being said The small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco iMac when it came out Really did make a splash like as we mentioned when it came out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People were talking about the design of a desktop in in 2021, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never happens. No one cares about desktops anymore except pros and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco nerds, basically. But most people, the vast majority of people, would never consider buying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a desktop. And that computer slightly bent that curve. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expect it to be a permanent thing, but now, for the first time in a long time, people go into an Apple store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and they see a really cool-ass looking desktop and they think for a split second, oh my god, I have to have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. That’s amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think most of the energy is going to be redirected towards the redesigned MacBook Air next spring.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that same energy of, whoa, color exists and it can be fun again. Like, I think that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to mostly go to the MacBook Air and that’s gonna sell like hotcakes if they do that to the MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Air. That’s gonna be incredible and I hope they do that as the rumors indicate because that’ll be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a ridiculously fun computer that people will just devour. But,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, anyway, they did succeed in making this desktop something cool

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and noteworthy for the first time in a long time, in an era where nobody thought that was possible. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they do something similar to the iMac Pro, I wouldn’t necessarily blame

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them for it. Even though I’m with you, John, I think they should prioritize

⏹️ ▶️ Marco utility on that machine first, rather than, you know, thinness and appearance. And maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the direction of the new MacBook Pros suggests that they’re willing to do that, because that’s what they do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on them. The new MacBook Pros are not more attractive than the previous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ones. I think they’re differently attractive, but they’re not more attractive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They are way more useful and way better suited to the actual

⏹️ ▶️ Marco needs of the actual people who buy them. And so maybe they’ll make that same trade-off with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big iMac. Maybe the small iMac is fine to be the like, you know, kind of minimal functionality

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one that prioritizes looks and coolness, and maybe they’ll let the big one be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco utilitarian one for professionals. So if they do that, I think that would be a good balance overall.

⏹️ ▶️ John If the iMac product designers are listening and you really, really want to make a super thin, big

⏹️ ▶️ John iMac, you know how you can do that real easy and no one will yell at you inside or outside the company?

⏹️ ▶️ John Say it, we all know the answer. Like how do they, I’m not gonna say it myself, you too. How does Apple do that? How does

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple say, we really wanna make a thin, big iMac and we don’t want people to be mad at us. What’s the solution?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they put the guts of it inside a half basketball-shaped thing and put that somewhere else on the desk and then

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John this thin panel.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, no. Casey, you’ve got your chance.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have no idea. Call it something that’s not an iMac? We

⏹️ ▶️ John all know the answer.

Wishing for a monitor

⏹️ ▶️ John Do we just make a good external monitor?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Because then you don’t have any excuse. You got the Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John for the big people, right? And the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco big people, your

⏹️ ▶️ John problem is like, well, what if I don’t want a Mac Pro? You’re telling me I have to get a Mac Pro if I want a utilitarian big desktop

⏹️ ▶️ John computer? No, you’ve got the Mac Mini, you’ve got these other things, just make a big Apple monitor.

⏹️ ▶️ John It solves so many problems for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco you because then

⏹️ ▶️ John suddenly everybody has more options in case he’s not hemming and hawing about buying a used LG ultra

⏹️ ▶️ John fine monitor. Oh God, like, and then you can make a pro version of the Mac mini, like, and then

⏹️ ▶️ John the whole world opens up because I feel like the Mac Pro allows the iMac to not have to bear

⏹️ ▶️ John that burden anymore of being the big monster machine. Great, right? But if you really, really want to make it super

⏹️ ▶️ John thin because you think iMac is all about super thin, fine, go ahead, all we need is an external

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor from Apple that connects to all the other computers that Apple makes. And then we can build our systems the

⏹️ ▶️ John way we want.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, you’re so right. It’s funny, I had lunch outside with a coworker of mine at my most recent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jobby job. And he was basically the IT director, still is. And we were

⏹️ ▶️ Casey talking about, because this was before I had figured out what I was gonna do with my monitor situation, because this all happened really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey quickly. And we were talking about what the monitor situation is for a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey MacBook Pro today. And this is relevant because when I first went

⏹️ ▶️ Casey digging to try to find a monitor, a retina external monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three, four years ago, this was like 2017, like four years ago, it was with my friend Rory,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the two of us were trying to figure out what monitor should I get? And that’s how I ended up on that LG 4K I talked about

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recently, which is not the LG UltraFine 4K, just a straight up LG 4K panel.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that’s what I had used at work because it was the best like bang for the buck to get a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey retina screen. And it was so frustrating over the last week, looking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the monitor situation today in 2021 and realizing it’s actually a hair worse than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was in 2017 because there was a Dell 5k that was supposed to be very good and not exceedingly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey expensive that has no longer been made for the last like two or three years. So my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John choices in 2021 are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey worse than they were in 2017. It’s preposterous. So yes, Apple, please

⏹️ ▶️ Casey make a less than $6,000 external monitor pretty please.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It does feel like Apple is in settling old business mode. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do think we will get this monitor. I do too. But the only little drips

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and drabs of rumors that we heard about it suggested that they might have only started to work

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on it like this spring or last year. So, and that kind of thing tends to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have a multi-year timeline, maybe like a two or three year timeline. So I think the earliest we would get it might be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next WBDC. Which wouldn’t be that bad. I mean, if it’s next June or whatever, that’s not that bad, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wouldn’t expect to see it sooner. If we do, that’d be great, but yeah, I wouldn’t get my hopes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up too much on that. But yeah, that would be wonderful because we’ve made such an incredible leap

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the Apple Silicon chips in terms of what kind of performance you can get out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of laptops. Right now, I have this incredible workstation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sitting next to me and I don’t hear a thing and it’s a laptop. If

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would have connected any other laptop I’ve owned, with the exception of the M1 Air, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way I have this laptop connected as my desktop right now, clamshell mode, running a giant external monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco recording a podcast, running Zoom and Audio Hijack, and all this stuff, there is no way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any other laptop I’ve ever had would have inaudible fan noise in this configuration.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It would be hot, the fan would be spinning, that level of heat would eventually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, cause risk of damaging the screen in clamshell mode or other problems. They would eventually clog

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with dust and it would fill up with even more heat and even louder fans. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptop enclosures have not been this good ever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in terms of like the amount of power delivered for the amount of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco heat and noise being produced. It’s never been this good of a ratio. And so I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the need for many many people has already left in terms of desktops, you know, over the last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco two decades. But I think the amount of performance you can get out of these

⏹️ ▶️ Marco particular laptops, this family, the M1 and the M1 Pro and Max, is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high. You get such ridiculous performance that I think many more people are no longer going to need a desktop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco who were using one before. Or who even, you know, need is a weird word. I think many more people are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to choose not to have a desktop, who were using them up to this point. Because the laptops

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are way better, clamshell mode is way more reliable and works way better than it did on the Intels.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, external monitor support and everything, it’s all, it’s so much better. Now we can have external touch ID with certain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple keyboards. Like, things are getting really great for using a laptop as your

⏹️ ▶️ Marco desktop when you need that. And then it’s also a laptop when you want to take it somewhere with you. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so compelling. Again, that was already the most popular thing people were doing, I think. but now it’s even more compelling.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so anything that can make that even better for people, and number one problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the monitor situation. That is the number one problem. Like, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple could make that better, that changes things for so many pros and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco power users. So many of us use laptops in a desktop context,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either on a stand or in client-shell mode with external monitors. And if they can fix that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which again, I think they are. I don’t know anything more than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anybody else knows. I just have a hunch that this is the kind of problem they would eventually fix

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in this major course correction that we’re seeing them go through.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That would so radically change things that the need for the high-end iMac

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be much more powerful than, to be any more powerful than the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco high-end MacBook Pro, I think that need just disappears.

⏹️ ▶️ John because then it would be taking advantage of its all-in-oneness. Like it would be the same design brief as the 24-inch, it would just be bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, oh, it’s great, it’s all-in-one, it’s minimal. And if you want more flexibility, if Apple makes a monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ John first of all, if you look at the last monitor they made, they were already going down this path, which was we wanna

⏹️ ▶️ John make a monitor that allows people to make essentially a desktop system out of

⏹️ ▶️ John either a non-desktop computer or a different desktop computer, whether it’s a Mac mini or a laptop. Remember the big rat

⏹️ ▶️ John tail that would come out? It had a MagSafe power adapter and it had a bunch of other things. Like that was to basically say,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh, you have quote unquote one cable, ha ha, it’s a giant rat tail, but yeah, one cable that connects to your laptop

⏹️ ▶️ John and it charges it and it connects it to this monitor and the monitor has ports on it. Well, guess what? We’ve had that technology for a long

⏹️ ▶️ John time. Apple has just not taken advantage of it. We now have the ability to plug one tiny cable

⏹️ ▶️ John into a Mac mini or any Mac laptop and power

⏹️ ▶️ John all the ports in the back of the monitor. And now, by the way, the laptops also have a bunch of ports on them. and the Mac mini

⏹️ ▶️ John has a bunch of ports on the back of it, right? That’s why we say this thing gives you the flexibility. Suddenly the iMac can be

⏹️ ▶️ John this smells very thin, all in one, very elegant, no cables, no connections thing, and fulfill that role

⏹️ ▶️ John without sacrificing the utility. Because if you’ve got an Apple monitor, you can connect any of Apple laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John or the Mac mini to that and have an amazing desktop setup. And still Mac Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John handles the super duper high end. Setting aside now the half size Mac Pro, whether that’s the only Mac Pro or

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a half size and a big one, Like the Mac Pro has got the high end covered, the iMac, if you want it to

⏹️ ▶️ John be super thin and 30 inches, fine, just give us a monitor so we can turn

⏹️ ▶️ John your other computers into a really awesome desktop setup. And the Mac mini, it is a desktop computer.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s begging for a good monitor to connect to it. It’s begging to have an M1 Pro and M1 Max in it probably as well.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s the lineup for 2023. Just an

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple monitor, a cheap Apple, quote unquote cheap Apple monitor for 1500 bucks it’s 5K or 6K or something, HDR, mini LED,

⏹️ ▶️ John like all the great things with Face ID built in, with a Thunderbolt cable coming out of it that you can connect to any of Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John awesome laptops or any of its awesome Mac minis.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s not 1500 bucks, by the way. My current thinking is if they do release a 5K 27 inch,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they would probably call it XDR, it would probably have micro LED and stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 1799? 2000 minimum, possibly 2500. Ugh. I’d still buy it, but I

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like same.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, that’s look, that’s look, that’s modern Apple. Like modern Apple is, we will eventually give you what you want, but it’s going to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco cost 40% more than you thought it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John would.

⏹️ ▶️ John The laptops were any more expensive. Like I said, they passed the savings on to you. Those laptops, you’ve got amazing laptops

⏹️ ▶️ John for similar prices or some, in some cases less, much less if you benchmark them against

⏹️ ▶️ John the previous computers that cost that amount of money. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s true. No, but if Apple does make an extra monitor, it’s going to be expensive. Like, you know, let

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me look at the XDR, you know, the $6,000 XDR. They only released

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that a pretty short time ago, and it doesn’t have some of these features you’re talking about, and it’s not that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much bigger than those.

⏹️ ▶️ John But it’s 6K, we’ll go, we’re fine with 5K, right? No one’s begging for 6K.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Sure, but I think a 5K Apple monitor released today by today’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple would be minimum $2,000 and possibly even $2,500. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my brain knows you’re right, but my heart is so sad about this just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John listening to

⏹️ ▶️ John you. I’m still holding out hope for 17.99, but you’re right, it’s probably 1.999. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And by the way, if they do that, I think that’s fine. Because that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is kind of like the deal between pros and Apple. We bug them about what we

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually need. They eventually make it, and it’s always more expensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than we want it to be, and we suck it up and pay it. Because that’s just the relationship

⏹️ ▶️ Marco between Pros and Apple. It’s been that way for a long time. It’s going more and more in that direction. And look at the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Mac Pro. Everyone wanted an expandable desktop tower, and they finally

⏹️ ▶️ Marco said, okay, we’ll give you an expandable desktop tower. It’ll be 15 grand, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll give it to you. We’ll give you this external monitor. You want a nice external monitor to go with it? Great, $6,000.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So whenever this monitor does come out, if they are doing a 5K 27 inch, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not gonna be under two grand. That’s, I would love it if it was, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think that’s unrealistic to expect.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey $2,000 for a 5K monitor makes me kind of sick, but $2,000 for a 5K monitor with 11 gazillion

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mini LED zones, just like the MacBook Pro screen has,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and HDR and all this other fanciness. You know, if it has, like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if it’s a 27 inch sized version of this MacBook Pro monitor,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Eh, $2,000 may not be so unreasonable. It’s if it’s just the LG 5K repackaged in an Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey package. Yeah, that’s a waste of money. But if it’s nice, like super nice, if it’s not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just ultra fine, if it’s ultra nice, then yeah, I can get behind that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I was looking at pricing for, I’m always looking at replacing my PlayStation monitor with

⏹️ ▶️ John another monitor. My PlayStation monitor is a 4K monitor, but it’s not 120 Hertz, right? And PlayStation 5

⏹️ ▶️ John can do 120 Hertz in some games now, including Destiny. And so I wanna see that, right? So I’m always looking for, I should replace this

⏹️ ▶️ John 4K monitor, it’s an LG 4K. I should replace it with a better 4K. You

⏹️ ▶️ John know, same resolution, 4K, that’s what the PlayStation Outputs, but I want HDR and I want it to

⏹️ ▶️ John be an IPS because I don’t really care about response time. I just want it to look really good and have good viewing angles, right? So

⏹️ ▶️ John I keep looking for, okay, I want, you know, it doesn’t, you know, it’s not, I’m not looking in the world of Mac monitors.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s just a plain old 4K monitor, HDR with good brightness. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John even care if it’s mini LED. Like I just want, I just want it to have, you know, high peak brightness so I can actually see the HDR

⏹️ ▶️ John effects like I can on my XDR, and 120 hertz. And if you put those specs

⏹️ ▶️ John into like a search all available monitors, you will find some. Like I’m looking at a 32 inch 4K HDR 1600 nits,

⏹️ ▶️ John 1,152 mini LED zones, 120 hertz, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s a $3,000 monitor. Yep.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco but

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s because like this is an Asus monitor that I’m looking at, I think it’s $3,000. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco pronounced

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as John.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s always their top of the line, like for like artists, super calibrated. It’s not a gaming

⏹️ ▶️ John monitor because no one who wants a gaming monitor cares about this stuff. They all care about like, oh, one millisecond response

⏹️ ▶️ John time, like 300 nits max brightness. And like, get that crap out of here. I’m not a pro

⏹️ ▶️ John gamer. I want things to look pretty. And then so I end up, you know, in this thing. So yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not looking good for the mythical $1,800 5K monitor if it had HDR of any

⏹️ ▶️ John kind, which is kind of sad. But I, you know, and so I did this look and I’m like, okay, it’s not time for me to replace my PlayStation monitor.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll check it again next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, the only thing that would support, you know, it being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco somewhat reasonable to be in that price range is if they don’t go super, you know, HDR, XDR

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with it, because they’ve been selling the 27 inch 5K iMac for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what, six years now, something like that? Longer, maybe seven or eight years after that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco computer has existed. Wasn’t 2014 the first one? So yes, so they’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco been selling that panel, that’s in Casey’s totally fine monitor, for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey a long time. Ultra fine, Marco, ultra.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And they’ve been selling it in a computer that starts at like 2000 or 2200 bucks. So I think they could easily justify

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they were still selling a monitor with that kind of spec, they could easily get that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in like the 1800 dollar range. But I don’t think that’s their style anymore. Like I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think what they’re going to do is the next high-end iMac is going to have the nice,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, XDR style thing that the current MacBook Pros have.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so, and that’s gonna probably be a, you know, $2,700 starting price for that iMac.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And therefore I think a monitor worth that would be around 2000 starting at minimum. Because it’s no

⏹️ ▶️ Marco longer Apple style to try to make low-end products in areas like this that are kind of accessory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco areas to their main products. this kind of thing that’s like a kind of higher end kind of pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco style mostly accessory they’re gonna only make the high-end ones and they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco gonna price them at very healthy margins and that’s why you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know that’s why we have their current only external monitor being this ridiculous $6,000 beast I think they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to aim similarly high with their smaller one and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the market tells them please make a $1,200 monitor, they’re gonna make a $2,000 monitor. And we’re gonna buy it anyway

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s gonna be the best option for a lot of us.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yep. Correction on those Asus monitors. Sorry, the one I was looking at is $5,000. Oh, what a bargain.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I

⏹️ ▶️ John put a link in the show notes if anyone wants to see it. This is a 4K monitor, Greg. This

⏹️ ▶️ John is not a 6K monitor. This is a 4K 32 inch 16 by 9 HDR mini LED 120 Hertz monitor.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week, Lutron Caseta, Connection, and Revenue Cat.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can go to slash join

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to help fund Casey’s XDR monitor. And we will talk

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey to you. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right. We’ll talk to you next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Cause it was accidental, oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental John didn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey accidental, they didn’t mean to.

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, accidental, tech podcast so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey long.

#aftershowaskatp: M1 GHz?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we’ll do a little bit of Ask ATP because it is piling up and we keep running out of time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to do it. And that’s that’s our bad. But we figure we’ll plow through one or two of these depending on how brief

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we can be. Famous last words with three of us.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, come on. It’s Apple’s fault. It’s not our fault. They released amazing computers that we talk about a lot. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco their fault. That’s on them.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We’re just so happy. All right. Yossi Conner writes, why is it we no longer talk about processor speed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in regard to the M1 at least in terms of gigahertz and instead only talk about the number of cores? What’s up with that, Jon?

⏹️ ▶️ John This is an easy answer to that one. Apple doesn’t sell them based on different clock speeds. You can’t choose

⏹️ ▶️ John the clock speed. So there’s no real reason for us to discuss it. If they did offer different clock speeds, you can be

⏹️ ▶️ John sure when you’re discussing it, we’d be saying, oh, you got 16 inch. What CPU did you get? What speed did

⏹️ ▶️ John you get? But that’s not an option that Apple offers. That’s the main reason. The second reason is,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not like it was the old days where the processor ran at a certain speed and they could put that speed on a spec sheet. These

⏹️ ▶️ John processors change their clock speed all the time. Not only do they change their clock speed, the parts inside

⏹️ ▶️ John the system on a chip run at different speeds at the same time when the chip is working. So it’s not even

⏹️ ▶️ John like you put one number on it and say this chip is running at 3.2 gigahertz. Really? Every part of the chip is running at 3,

⏹️ ▶️ John well, not really. It’s way more complicated. And so it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John A, very difficult to talk about. Obviously lots of people still sell chips this way because they’re basically saying here’s the fastest it can run

⏹️ ▶️ John or here’s the fastest it can run in a sustained thing or whatever. But B, they’re just not

⏹️ ▶️ John sold that way. So that’s the answer. It’s not worth talking about because there’s nothing we can do about it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Good talk. That was quick. I’m stunned. That was very quick.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, the reason I wanted this question to be in there is it’s a good question. We used to talk about gigahertz all the time, but it’s like, if

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not something that, if it’s not something that we as consumers have to choose among, especially when looking at pro hardware,

⏹️ ▶️ John like do we have to, I have to like, talk about the clock speed. Do I want the more clock speed? Is that gonna burn more of my battery? That’s just not

⏹️ ▶️ John a choice we have anymore. So it’s not worth discussing. But the second part, the technical part is the thing that people might not realize is

⏹️ ▶️ John that there’s not really one number you can put on modern chips. And so it’s not even

⏹️ ▶️ John a useful thing to talk about anymore, really.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. And then this one I really like and wanted to talk about, and Marco did

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as well. And it is a failed question in the get-go, at least for John, because John

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does not believe in hypotheticals. But I do, and I think this is fun.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s a fun one.

Old MBP w/M1 Max or new MBP w/Intel?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fun question.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Joel Short writes, if you had to choose, would you rather use the previous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey generation MacBook Pro bodies, you know, all USB-Cs, with an M1 Max chip,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey or the new generation MacBook Pro with, you know, all the ports and an Intel chip? For me,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this is unquestionably, don’t even have to think twice, the old body with an M1

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Max every day of the week and twice on Sunday, because I’ve already converted my life to USB-C and dongles

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I need them. So I’ll take the processor hands down. What about you, Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco See, to me, this is interesting because the question is a little bit vague. You know, so it’s a fun question, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the previous generation MacBook Pro body with the M1 Mac chip, well, which MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pro? Is it the 13-inch with no touch bar and only two ports?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh, here we go.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Yeah. Right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Is it the is it a 16-inch with with the touch bar, you know, and then does it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have the butterfly keyboard or does it have the magic keyboard? You know like how far back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the previous generation started with the butterfly keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John think any of these things are gonna change your answer though.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh no! So if it is the immediately preceding you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know the 2019 or 2020 models that had the fixed keyboard like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the actual good magic keyboard I would choose the older body with the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new M1 Mac chip because even Even though I love all the new ports and everything that we have on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new ones, the M1 series of chips and the performance they give and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thermal and battery characteristics they give are more substantial

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to me in my own personal utility for these machines, even though I would have to tolerate the touch bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably with that choice. But no question for me, except

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if the question becomes the butterfly keyboard. I would rather use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good keyboard with a 486 in it than a butterfly keyboard with an M1 Max.

⏹️ ▶️ John But you would still pick the M1, you know why? Because you’re not even touching your keyboard. Your laptop is folded up like a

⏹️ ▶️ John book and sitting next to your computer. Like you’d still buy it with the butterfly keyboard and you’d slam that thing shut

⏹️ ▶️ John and shove it into your little bookshelf thing and never look at it again because you’re basically using it as your

⏹️ ▶️ John desktop laptop and it would have the M1 Max in it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I guess I was thinking about it in the desktop context. I was thinking about it as actually using it a laptop?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Who uses laptops? Laptops stink.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, did I not just talk about how much fun I had at the Botanical Gardens earlier today? Come now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t mean the butterfly keyboard. Like, I hope not. Who would

⏹️ ▶️ John do such a thing? Yeah, that’s just cruel. Nobody deserves that. And that’s not the previous generation.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the previous, previous generation. Like, they did fix the keyboards before they

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey went

⏹️ ▶️ John to that one.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah. Agreed. All right. So, John, tell me why this question is utter trash and then do your best

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John answer.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, it’s fine. It’s fine. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a hypothetical making you choose between two things that are both

⏹️ ▶️ John bad, but which one is less bad? Yeah. But the answer is you get the M1 like, cause yes, they are, the

⏹️ ▶️ John ports and everything were bad and the, you know, even the butterfly keyboard is better. I think, but just the M1 is just so much

⏹️ ▶️ John better. And the M1 makes the old design less crappy. Cause one of the things that was

⏹️ ▶️ John crappy about the old thing was the fans would run all the time and they’d run super hot and they were super noisy and the M1 fixes

⏹️ ▶️ John all of that right so yeah I would yeah the M1 in the old design

⏹️ ▶️ John is the less bad the a significantly less bad choice than Intel in the current design.