Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

450: Distending My Wardrobe

Our iPhone 13 Pro impressions so far.

Episode Description:

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Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. One fun shape allowed
  2. Donate to St. Jude
  3. Follow-up: Return videos
  4. iPad Mini volume-button orientation
  5. Follow-up: Tennis-serve apps
  6. Preordering tip
  7. Sponsor: Memberful
  8. Follow-up: eSIMs
  9. Follow-up: Raw video formats
  10. Update: Eufy outdoor cameras
  11. Dock auto-hide delay pref
  12. Sponsor: Backblaze
  13. iPhone 13 Pro setup
  14. Physical impressions
  15. Wardrobe malfunctions
  16. Cases and handling
  17. Sponsor: Linode
  18. ProMotion
  19. Cameras 🖼️
  20. Ending theme
  21. #askatp: Infinite-timescale features 🖼️

One fun shape allowed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people who are not as nerdy as us might expect us to do something really special for episode number 450. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that what we’re on?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I didn’t even realize.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, I didn’t even know it was 450. So now Casey and I have this new piece of information.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey But

⏹️ ▶️ John are we celebrating 50s now? I mean… I mean, we didn’t even celebrate 400. No,

⏹️ ▶️ John we did make a big deal. Like 400 is where we actually talked about the show on the show for a little bit.

⏹️ ▶️ John But

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey it wasn’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John we did that at 100. I think we talked about it maybe 100, 200. But 400 is a random thing. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John feel like we did that discussion on 400, if you want to hear it, go listen to episode 400. And

⏹️ ▶️ John now we don’t need to do it again for another like another 400 episodes or something. Like certainly we’re not

⏹️ ▶️ John going to celebrate 50s.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, is that how it is? Is this kind of like your pasta shape thing where like, you know, you allowed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one fun shape of the four. Is this, you know, are we allowed to have like, you know, only one celebratory

⏹️ ▶️ Marco episode per 100 or per 400?

⏹️ ▶️ John My pasta shape thing wasn’t allowing one shape. I was saying, if you have a limited collection, at least make one of them fun. but

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have a limited collection of pasta. I have all the shapes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had just today, I picked up my second delivery of the Sporkful Cascatelli.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco My first order, when I didn’t know how good it was, I got four boxes. But this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is like, it’s back-ordered months. So when I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco tried the first of the four boxes, I instantly knew, oh, this is not going to be enough.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I ordered 16 more boxes, and they arrived today. Oh my good grief. When you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have to order pasta three months ahead of time, you gotta figure, well, how many might I need and how many might I wanna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco give away to neighbors and friends to try? It’s this whole pasta religion now. And yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m aware of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. This is a whole new pasta religion, even beyond that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, although I think I’m actually an ordained minister of that one. I was for reasons,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but anyway. That’s it. We now have a new pasta religion, and it is Cascatelli,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it is curly and delicious.

⏹️ ▶️ John We had a similar situation where we couldn’t find one of our shapes, like it was, I think this was like early in COVID when, you know, when some stuff you

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t find in the stores and we were out of a particular shape. So we bought it from Amazon, but the only thing they had available was,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, a giant box of like 20 individual

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey boxes. We’re like, ah, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s fine. We’re still going through that. So pasta, you know, 20 boxes of pasta

⏹️ ▶️ John last longer than you might think. And pasta doesn’t, dried pasta tends not to go

⏹️ ▶️ John bad unless you have some serious like climate and moisture control situations. but I will warn

⏹️ ▶️ John you that one thing that can happen, and I know this is having too much in the house for too long, is

⏹️ ▶️ John that you can get bugs, either bugs that go into it or bugs that are already in there that sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey hatch

⏹️ ▶️ John and go through their life

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey cycle. I

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know what they are, kind of like these little dry, like, you’ll know you do it because you won’t notice,

⏹️ ▶️ John you’ll pour the pasta into the boiling water and then all of a sudden these little insect husks will float to the top of the water

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco and that’s how you know. Oh my goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When you were starting, I thought you were gonna say mice, which you can also get in boxes of dried pasta, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wow.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think that you would notice. You’d notice that before you put it in the

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco boiling water.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This was so much worse than I thought it was gonna be. And when you’re expecting mice to have something even worse

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really quite something. No, the bugs aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John worse. Oh, and I was trying to find, I couldn’t find it, but someone tweeted Halloween pasta shapes, like little ghosts

⏹️ ▶️ John and stuff. And then someone had a follow-up tweet to that calling it spookatini, which I thought was nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Very well done.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, you know what’s not spooky? Donating to St. Jude! Best transition ever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John You’re a pro. Hey, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is almost October, which means we’re only going to do this one last time. That’s a reference. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anyway, we are trying to raise money, even still, on the 29th of September, we are trying to raise money for St. Jude

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Children’s Research Hospital. Hey, guess what? Thanks to some incredible donations, which we’ll get to in a second,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we are, all of us, anyone who has donated, even a dollar, that includes you, all of us are sitting at $634,076.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am exceptionally proud. I think they started at like a third of a million and we’ve blown past a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey half and almost at two-thirds of a million dollars. So I’m extremely proud of all of us. But hey, you know, a lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of us just got new phones. We’re going to talk about that a lot in a little bit. And if you want to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey feel better about your unbridled consumerism, now is a great time to go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and throw St. Jude a little bit of money because hey, you know what? Cancer kills more kids under the age of 14 than

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any other disease. Doctors from all 50 states and around the world, non-Americans, refer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey their patients to St. Jude because they have the world’s best survival rates for some of the most aggressive childhood cancers.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey St. Jude also provides thousands of free consultations for doctors treating children again worldwide,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not just Americans, worldwide, including kids in your community. So hey, if you want to go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey slash ATP, or if you want to feel better about that crypto you’ve been holding

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on to, which why wouldn’t you? slash donate slash crypto dot html.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey These links will be in the show notes. Please feel free to donate. Marco, would you like to add

⏹️ ▶️ Casey anything before we discuss our new top donor?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We know that many of you out there can’t really afford a whole lot of extra

⏹️ ▶️ Marco expenditure, and that’s cool. For you, you’re absolved. For everyone else who can afford

⏹️ ▶️ Marco some extra expenditure here and there and is going around buying new Apple gear on a regular basis,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we know you can spare a little bit. And so you, feel free to absolve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yourself of your consumerism guilt. We know you don’t really recycle all of your iPhones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We know a lot of your electronics aren’t really recyclable and a lot of the recyclables that we put in recycling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bins aren’t really recyclable. You can avoid all of the guilt from all of that for a short time at least

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by donating to St. Jude. Give him 70 bucks, give him 100 bucks, give him 200

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bucks, whatever amount of money that you think is not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just a drop in the bucket to you but not so much that’s going to hurt you and your family. Obviously

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t overspend yourself But whatever you can give, please give it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you can give more, that’s fantastic. If you can’t give that much, but you can give something, give something.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Please, it’s a fantastic cause. And as we spend probably the rest of this show

⏹️ ▶️ Marco celebrating our ridiculous consumerism, I hope you can join us in absolving our guilt

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by donating to St. Jude. Thank you.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think one other thing to keep in mind for people who, it depends on what age you are, and

⏹️ ▶️ John if you’re in the tech industry, Maybe you have a job and a burgeoning career that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John giving you a decent income. But we all start out, most of us start out, in

⏹️ ▶️ John a place where we don’t have an awesome job. And maybe we have school debt and all that other stuff. And I

⏹️ ▶️ John can say from experience that going from someone who’s supported

⏹️ ▶️ John by your parents maybe, then to someone who’s just going through school and doesn’t have a lot of money, or maybe has student loans and stuff

⏹️ ▶️ John like that, to eventually, if you’re in the tech sector, someone who’s got a pretty good salary based on that education and being

⏹️ ▶️ John in the tech sector, and you’ve got money coming in and everything like that, it’s not easy to,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s easy to not notice that, hey, wait a second, I have money now, right? And

⏹️ ▶️ John one thing that’s part of that is like, it’s a thing that quote unquote rich people do. It’s like, oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John every year we do charitable giving. But when you’re a starving college student, or otherwise

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have a lot of money, your annual charity budget is maybe not something

⏹️ ▶️ John that you think about because you’re like, what annual charity budget? I’m just trying to pay my rent, right? But

⏹️ ▶️ John eventually, those of us that are lucky enough to get to a place in life

⏹️ ▶️ John with our lucrative tech jobs, where we’re not living paycheck to paycheck, it’s time to, setting

⏹️ ▶️ John aside St. Jude, it’s time to start thinking about what are my charitable contributions going to be

⏹️ ▶️ John for the year? Pick charities that you care about, right? Pick things that are close to your heart that you

⏹️ ▶️ John feel good about giving money to or whatever, and then every year, do that. Maybe do it around

⏹️ ▶️ John tax time. Maybe do it around Christmas time. Maybe do it in September when it really has their pledge drive. Whenever you

⏹️ ▶️ John want to do it, you should make it. If you reach this level of financial security,

⏹️ ▶️ John you have to make a conscious effort to say, oh, I’m one of those people that gives to charities now

⏹️ ▶️ John because I am not living paycheck to paycheck anymore. I do have a good tech job. I should,

⏹️ ▶️ John every year, give to the charities of my choice. And so even if you’re not doing it in September,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’d encourage you to do it on an annual basis. And I encourage you to think about it. never thought about it before. And you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, you’re a few years into your tech career, and you’ve got a bunch of money, but you never thought that about every year giving to charity,

⏹️ ▶️ John do it, it feels good. It’s tax deductible, if you care about that. And you just

⏹️ ▶️ John make a habit of it. And then you can change the charities from year to year or whatever. And then if you can work, the relay

⏹️ ▶️ John St. Jude fund drive into that, that’s great, too.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. So finally, before we leave the subject for the very last time this year, we do have a new top

⏹️ ▶️ Casey donor. If you recall, our previous top donor was the fine folks at Agile Bits and 1Password

⏹️ ▶️ Casey who donated $26,922.04. Someone who is apparently a super fan of Thoroughly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Considered, which is a very good podcast on Real AFM with our friends Dan Provost

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Tom Gerhart and Mike Hurley. Well, some super fan donated $26,922.05. So, fine, fine listener.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey First of all, I respect the hustle. Second of all, if you would like stickers, please reach

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out, you know where to find me. Thank you so very much for doing that. Also, there was an honorable mention.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey There was someone who donated a tremendous something like $17,000. 1717 17.1. Yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s right.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And this person, I don’t recall if they wanted to be anonymous, I don’t want to name them just to be safe. But they did reach out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to me. And for that sum of money, I am indeed awarding them with some stickers, even though they were not the top donor.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, appeal to my good side, donate a bunch of money to a good cause, and maybe you’ll get some really overpriced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ATP stickers. So, please feel free.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And that is the last you’ll hear of this until about this time next year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But you can always donate. And finally, thank you to all of you who have donated. I mean, this is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, you all out there really did an incredible showing this year. This

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ridiculously good turnout. amazing generosity from all of you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So thank you so much for doing this. We can now talk about ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco consumerism, totally absolved of our guilt because of your generosity. Oh, and by the way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you might’ve saved a kid’s life. Like that’s really quite an impressive thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Oh, P.S.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, and we’ve been doing this, what? This is like the third year of the Relay

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Pledge Drive thing? Something

⏹️ ▶️ John like that, third or fourth,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John If you look at how much money was raised in year one versus how much was raised now, I don’t know the details of Relay’s business,

⏹️ ▶️ John But I think the growth in people giving to St. Jude during this pledge drive has far outstripped

⏹️ ▶️ John the growth of new people listening to the show. So what it comes down to is more people who

⏹️ ▶️ John listen to these podcasts are responding during this pledge drive thing and giving money. So everyone should be proud of themselves

⏹️ ▶️ John because it is basically like this group of people who is slowly coming around to the idea of, eh, sure, I’ll give

⏹️ ▶️ John a couple bucks, save some kids from cancer, and that’s awesome. We should, you know, we thank you, and you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, let’s keep it up. Yep, very much so.

Follow-up: Return videos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so let’s do some follow-up. We have a whole, just a smorgasbord of return-related

⏹️ ▶️ Casey follow-up. This is coming off of your excellent post-show, John, from last episode

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with regard to your mouse. So do you want to run through this? Do you want me to? How would you like to handle

⏹️ ▶️ John this? You can do it until you trip over your tongue to a degree where you’re knocked unconscious, then I’ll take

⏹️ ▶️ John over.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sounds like a plan. Here

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John we go. Great.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right. So John Halter writes, I deal with returning Surface Pro tablets to Microsoft regularly, mostly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey smashed screens and swollen or bulging batteries. Initially, I had to send a picture of the serial number and damage.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now they require a video showing the serial number and the damage in one continuous shot. Ridiculous.”

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I like the

⏹️ ▶️ John idea that it has to be a continuous shot because they’re afraid you’re going to use editing tricks to

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey somehow

⏹️ ▶️ John swindle them into replacing your Surface Pro. So that’s another Microsoft experience

⏹️ ▶️ John in line with the video that I was asked to make. Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Oh my goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco What a ridiculous thing.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s something else. I mean, what’s going to happen? If you ship the thing to them, they’re going to see that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re full of garbage, and they just won’t refund you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right? People

⏹️ ▶️ John just like to ship things back for fun. It’s a recreational activity. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey don’t know, man. It just seems bananas to me. Wow. But anyway, burned, kill go rights. I also

⏹️ ▶️ Casey went through the pleasure of returning an Xbox Elite Series 2 controller. Isn’t that the one that Cotton Bureau

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bought for you? Is that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John right?

⏹️ ▶️ John That is the one that I have. And I mentioned when I reviewed it that a lot of people complain about reliability problems. So keep reading. It’s like $300,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? Something like that, yeah. It’s very expensive. It is expensive.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, Bernd writes, they had to send me five replacement

⏹️ ▶️ Casey controllers. Oh wait, Marco, you’re jumping the gun here. And none of them worked.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well done, Microsoft. Good work. Bernd continues, I was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey also sent bare naked objects and bubble wrap. Bernd says, I only buy Microsoft stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at Amazon now and use their return system instead. God, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John amazing. I did buy my mouse at Amazon, I think, so I wonder if I should have gone that route. Maybe I will next time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, seriously. Oh my word. All right, continuing on. Damien

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Shaw writes, recently my Surface headphones headband snapped. The warranty said no physical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey damage, but I gave it a try. Customer support said actually they have a one-time exception on headband snapping and they’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Casey replace it. Went through the same proof process as John, took a photo and video of it. After sending and waiting some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey time, they sent me my same headphones back saying they don’t replace physical damage.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I checked with customer service and they said that the replacement team made a mistake and just went through the process again. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I returned it for a second time and got it back a second time and then again a third time eventually in the fourth attempt the support team just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stopped emailing me and I never got a shipping label to send it back a fourth time. Also these

⏹️ ▶️ Casey rather fragile headphones were shipped back to me in a large empty box with a single piece of unattached bubble wrap.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Excellent work.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Are we

⏹️ ▶️ John noticing a trend here? I like the idea that they’re just sending the same pair of headphones back

⏹️ ▶️ John and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My goodness.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also, for the record, headphones where the headband cracks or snaps, like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually like up like by the middle, like where the top of your head would be. That’s a very common design

⏹️ ▶️ Marco flaw in headphones that use solid plastic headbands. Usually like that’s that is almost never

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your fault as the customer. That is almost always a design defect or just you know, it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just wore out usually prematurely for headphones that do that. So yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s almost never your fault. That’s almost always their fault.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, moving right along. Christopher Dylan writes, Logitech made me record a video and provide a similar ridiculous quality

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of information. I think perhaps quantity was intended there. But anyway, to return a broken MX Master,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which has a very well-known but not officially recognized fault. So maybe this is standard procedure in the fancy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mouse world. Ricky Wilson writes, I had to go through the exact same process with

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Google to return a non-functioning Google Home Mini. Long chat session, multiple photos, video of touch feature not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey working, almost worth paying quadruple for an Apple HomePod Mini. It was bananas,”

⏹️ ▶️ Casey writes Ricky.

⏹️ ▶️ John Almost, but not quite worthwhile. Almost. I guess I get it four times. So we started off with all these

⏹️ ▶️ John Microsoft stories and like, boy, Microsoft has bad return things that make you do all this onerous stuff. Now we’ve had a lot of

⏹️ ▶️ John tech in Google. I hope you’re starting to see a trend here. Keep going.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Cheryl Wild writes, On the remote for my new Apple TV 4K, the microphone button physically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey clicked, but most of the time didn’t actually activate anything. Within two months, this button stopped working entirely.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I called Apple support to ask for the remote to be replaced under warranty. Long story short, I had to, oh my God, I can’t even

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get through this because of what’s about to be said, I had to provide them with a CIS diagnose of 160

⏹️ ▶️ Casey megs, mother of God, from the Apple TV,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as well as a video of me using the defective remote to show how all the buttons were working, except for the microphone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey button. These had to be uploaded to Apple for their engineers to evaluate before they would decide on a remedy. The inevitable conclusion came

⏹️ ▶️ Casey some days later, which was to do it in warranty replacement for the remote. You don’t freaking say.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my gosh, a cyst diagnosed.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I think what we’ve learned is that apparently now that companies

⏹️ ▶️ John can assume that everybody has easy access to hardware that can take pictures

⏹️ ▶️ John and videos, like they just assume that I suppose, like what if you said, oh, I have nothing to take video with what we do. But anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John apparently everybody’s doing it now. It’s not just Microsoft, Google, Logitech, Apple. And of course Apple throws in the extra

⏹️ ▶️ John little knife of like, oh, and also a cystic nose from your Apple TV. Do you even know how to get a cystic nose in your Apple TV?

⏹️ ▶️ John Have fun with that. This is a bad trend. I just got through saying in the last show that all the returns

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve done with Apple, I just say, hey, my thing’s broken. And they say, okay, fine. And they send me the new thing. Or maybe they’ll take me through

⏹️ ▶️ John one or two troubleshooting steps or whatever. But normally I preempt them on that because I’ve already done all the troubleshooting.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve never had Apple ask me for a video, but apparently now that’s on the table. So I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know what I’m gonna do about this. Maybe it’s just like, well, you know, what can you do? Time marches on, they prefer to have video.

⏹️ ▶️ John In the grand scheme of things, it’s not that onerous, but I would implore anybody who makes decisions at

⏹️ ▶️ John a company about their return policies to, in cases where it makes financial sense,

⏹️ ▶️ John simply take people at their word for it. When they say their thing is broken, they’re not, there’s no moral hazard here.

⏹️ ▶️ John They’re not recreationally calling you and returning items, right? That’s not a fun thing to do. Nobody does

⏹️ ▶️ John that voluntarily as some kind of scam or if there is some kind of scam angle, surely

⏹️ ▶️ John your video is not going to stop that scam angle. Just get your people off the phone sooner. You know, you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t have to pay people to be on the phone for an hour to go through all these troubleshooting things. You don’t have to worry about

⏹️ ▶️ John debugging the problems. Well, I took the video, but I can’t upload it and I can’t find the file and it’s taking

⏹️ ▶️ John too little slow on my connection and it’s in a codec that you can’t read. And like that can’t possibly be worthwhile.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just when they say their thing is broken, Maybe troubleshoot for a few seconds, let them describe the problem,

⏹️ ▶️ John write it down in their case file and send them a shipping label. Stop with the videos, please.

iPad Mini volume-button orientation

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. We have a iPad mini quickie. This is via Mike Bullock

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Ziegler. Mike writes, it’s new iPad mini day for me. It’s great and everything the reviews say,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I didn’t read about this feature anywhere. And I hadn’t, Casey, I hadn’t seen this either, although I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it has come out since I put this in the show notes. The volume buttons dynamically change based on orientation. For example,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the volume button on top is always the volume up while holding it in landscape. I think that’s pretty cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. It’s a neat little trick. I like that.

⏹️ ▶️ John Although given how much I fight with like iOS devices and their sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John hysteresis or whatever of like not accepting that I’ve rotated them, because if

⏹️ ▶️ John you remember this from the original iPad, it used to be a lot more jumpy with the accelerometers. And now they have kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of a delay where it’s like, I know you might, accelerometers say you just might’ve changed orientation,

⏹️ ▶️ John but it was kind of like a quick jerky movement and maybe we won’t rotate them. And it just, I don’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John having to sort of do, it’s like the little watch gesture we had to wake it up before the always on screen or whatever. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John like having to sort of intentionally do the thing to let the iPad know that I’m rotating

⏹️ ▶️ John it or the iPhone know that I’m rotating. I wish you would just rotate. And I worry that at least

⏹️ ▶️ John when, you know, for screen rotation, I could tell if it didn’t happen. My phone is now sideways,

⏹️ ▶️ John but the YouTube video is not sideways anymore. No rotation lock is on. What I have to do is put it back vertical again

⏹️ ▶️ John and then rotate it sideways again. Now I did it in a way that makes the algorithm happy that the accelerometer

⏹️ ▶️ John readings mean I really rotated it. But if that affects the volume buttons

⏹️ ▶️ John and they don’t notice that it was rotated, I suppose the screen would also reflect that. Or maybe it would, maybe if it was,

⏹️ ▶️ John they were both landscape and one was landscape one way and then one was landscape the other way. The volume buttons could be reversed and

⏹️ ▶️ John it wouldn’t know until I started hitting one of them. And that would make me feel like something was terribly wrong with my mind.

⏹️ ▶️ John But on paper, on paper, this sounds like a really cool feature. I just hope it works a little bit better than their screen

⏹️ ▶️ John rotation.

Follow-up: Tennis-serve apps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. Now we have some stuff about tennis. So that’s your that’s your neck of the woods, John.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I was talking about the basic impossibility of a watch that

⏹️ ▶️ John is on your wrist, being able to measure the speed that you are serving. But of course, they showed something

⏹️ ▶️ John like that in the keynote. Michael Gock wrote in to say that

⏹️ ▶️ John he looked at the keynote video and paused on that frame. And it turns out it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John the SwingVision app, which we will put a link to in the show notes, and the SwingVision app uses cameras

⏹️ ▶️ John viewing the entire court to measure the speed of the little dot moving through the camera frame. That’s how

⏹️ ▶️ John it measures how fast you’re serving, and then it just puts the result on your watch. So apparently

⏹️ ▶️ John the watch is not being used to measure your speed. The watch is being used to display the speed that was measured by a camera

⏹️ ▶️ John that was tracking the ball, which makes way more sense. We apologize for the confusion.

Preordering tip

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, we got a really, really good tip that I will promptly forget, especially because it’s only applicable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a year from now. But this is with regard to fast pre-ordering from TJ Luoma.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey TJ writes, when I finished my pre-order, the last screen that said, come back tomorrow and finalize this also had a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey link to add the event to your calendar. Now, you’re probably thinking like I was, says TJ, but as I did,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey says Casey, that seems pointless. Why do I need a calendar reminder for something I already know when I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to do it? It’s not like I’m going to forget. But TJ clicked the link anyway. And then I learned

⏹️ ▶️ Casey something, writes TJ. When you click that link, it downloads an ICS file for you to add that event to your calendar.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And the event has a URL with the event details that is specific for your cart or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pre-order. So when you click that link, it brings up exactly the page you need to finalize things. No clicking around needed.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Using that link allowed me to finalize my order so fast that I was even able to use my Apple Card before the cardpocalypse happened.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So this is, if you recall, we had said that in order to set up the pre-order, which I I liked or the pre-pre-order,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you needed to like get it back at pre-order time. That was a little bit confusing where it was and you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey had to like go digging in your profile or whatever to go find it. And so if you listen to TJ, you can get a URL

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out of that ICS calendar invite that you can download when you’re done, which I thought That was a very clever trick.

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Follow-up: eSIMs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Moving on, with regard to eSIMS, I owe an apology as well. I had pooped on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the idea of eSIMS last episode, maybe the one before, saying that, you know, I didn’t think they were really worth

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, blah, blah, blah. It turns out my information is very old and very wrong. So Harrison Krebs was one who wrote

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in to correct me. Harrison writes, I wanted to add some eSIM feedback

⏹️ ▶️ Casey after this week’s episode. A long-suffering AT&T customer here, I feel that. We have used eSIMs

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on iPhones since they came out on the XS. Initially, it was definitely a pain, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m happy to report that it’s gotten much better, with iOS 15 especially. You used to have to go to a physical carrier store, scan

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a code, and have them basically approve it on their backend. And then all you had to do was call them and then read a bunch of numbers. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all you need is your old physical SIM. Over the summer, I was having some issues. I got an AT&T SIM and popped

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it in there, and there was a convert to eSIM setting in cellular on the phone that basically converted my physical SIM

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to an eSIM, no carrier involvement. Along with this, when you get your new phone, your eSIM will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey automatically transfer, no calling your carrier, with no changes that you need to make on your end.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It just works. I definitely understand the initial frustration with eSIMs, but I’m happy to report it’s gotten much better and this is my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey preferred way to deal with phones, especially the ability to transfer to your new phone without having any carrier input.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And there’s a KBASE article, hi Steven Hackett, that we will link in the show notes. So I thought that was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very good stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have a little bit of stuff to add to that, but we’ll talk about it when we talk about our setup experiences

⏹️ ▶️ John later. Sounds good.

Follow-up: Raw video formats

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, tell me about raw formats for video, one of you.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it was, I forget, I think it was Marco was saying that it’s probably not any raw formats for video because like video

⏹️ ▶️ John is just so darn big. I said uncompressed. Yeah, sorry, yes, uncompressed, uncompressed raw

⏹️ ▶️ John formats. Apparently, according to the feedback, there are actually a few raw formats for video,

⏹️ ▶️ John scene DNG, CINE, DNG, Red’s thing, and even ProRes Raw, but ProRes

⏹️ ▶️ John non-raw is compressed and lossy. So the implication is that these other things are not only raw,

⏹️ ▶️ John but also non-lossy compressed. Like they might be compressed raw, but they’d be losslessly

⏹️ ▶️ John compressed. I don’t know enough about the formats to know, but when you get them to these super high-end cameras that cost more than

⏹️ ▶️ John a car, it doesn’t surprise me that some of them might support losslessly compressed

⏹️ ▶️ John raw video.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, that actually did surprise me because that’s a lot of data. Like that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a massive amount.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, they just charge you the money for the, you know, bazillion dollar memory cards that Red uses

⏹️ ▶️ John their magic memory card. You ever see that? There’s a whole YouTube sub-genre of like cracking open the Red, like memory

⏹️ ▶️ John cards and seeing, look, it’s just a Samsung thing in there. Why does it cost 10 times

⏹️ ▶️ John as much? It’s like, well, you see on the outside, it says Red.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s why. By the way, just for reference, I don’t know exactly what pixel depth we’re talking about here, but if you just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do the math, just for what uncompressed video means, like truly uncompressed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lossless.

⏹️ ▶️ John losslessly compressed, I think is the, not uncompressed, but losslessly compressed, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, okay, but we know what lossless compression typically averages, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not great. Usually most lossless schemes, it obviously depends on what the content is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but you’re looking at usually about 50% compression, best case, or best

⏹️ ▶️ Marco average case, at least. So if you do the math, a 4K frame is 3840 by 2160.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Multiply those together. Now the only question is what’s the bit depth of each

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pixel. If they’re 24 bits, which I don’t know, I know there’s like 10 bit raw, I don’t know, is that 10

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bits per channel? Then it would be 30 bits? I don’t know. But suppose it’s 24 bits,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that at 60 frames a second is about 1.5 gigs per second.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this is why there aren’t a lot of uncompressed video formats. Because even if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you have the space to record whatever duration you need to record at 1.5 per

⏹️ ▶️ Marco second, it’s fairly difficult to find hardware that can even write that much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco data at once, uh, you know, that, and on a sustained basis and, you know, the ISP, I guess, wouldn’t be processing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it much, but like there’s, there’s a reason like uncompressed video is so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco impractically massive that that’s why almost nothing actually is dealing with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco truly uncompressed video or lossless compressed video. Like almost everything pro res, as you mentioned, like is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lossless compress in ways that like, yeah, it leaves a lot of, you know, leeway for editing and everything.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s not super small, but it’s not 1.5 gigs per second.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, unless I’m just doing this off the top of my head, I might be confusing bits and bytes because of the capital

⏹️ ▶️ John B lowercase b, but I believe the minimum specs for the SSD expansion

⏹️ ▶️ John on a PlayStation 5 is they have to be able to do five gigabytes per second

⏹️ ▶️ John sustained read performance. I know that’s not the, or maybe it’s write performance. Anyway, what

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying is solid state storage is surprisingly fast. And the PS4 has like a PCIe version

⏹️ ▶️ John four. And I know a giga second sounds like a lot,

⏹️ ▶️ John but for a RED camera that again costs more than a car, it’s probably within the realm of possibility.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know the details. There wasn’t enough detail in this feedback to know whether they mean is it lossy

⏹️ ▶️ John compressed or is it just less compressed or losslessly compressed or anything like that. But kind of

⏹️ ▶️ John like I said a couple of shows ago where the tech is slowly but surely catching up to

⏹️ ▶️ John our perception in video. It’s got probably another few decades to go before it gets there, but it’s getting pretty darn

⏹️ ▶️ John close when a game console, a sub $1,000 game console has, you know, onboard SSD

⏹️ ▶️ John storage that’s measured in gigs per second. And that you can buy it fairly for not too much money.

⏹️ ▶️ John The expansion is an M.2 card for the PS5 and it’s internal and everything and it needs to have

⏹️ ▶️ John a heat sink. And there are minimum specs. So when you put one in there, The PlayStation 5 will measure

⏹️ ▶️ John the performance of the thing you put in and will yell at you if it doesn’t, if it’s not up to snuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John But for only, you know, a couple hundred bucks, you can get another 500 gigs, one terabyte of

⏹️ ▶️ John insanely fast storage in your game console. So I think with the RED camera, it’s definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John in the realm of possibility.

Update: Eufy outdoor cameras

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, speaking of things that will test the performance of the cards you put into them, I have a brief

⏹️ ▶️ Marco update on my home security camera situation. The eufy cams

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I said were pretty good. I had gotten the two pack of the indoor cams and I had placed both of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco outdoors, knowing that that would probably kill one of them eventually. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco second one was in a pretty good spot. It was fine. But the one that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in a more precarious location, it turns out it did at one time finally rain sideways in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just the right way to kill it. And I don’t blame Eufy for that. I put their indoor camera outdoors. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on me. But I replaced it with one of their actually officially outdoor cameras.

⏹️ ▶️ John So are we done with this now? Because every time you put an outdoor thing, an indoor thing outdoors and it dies and we yell at

⏹️ ▶️ John you and you do it again, it dies and we yell at you. Is this the end of this now? Or are you still going to buy indoor stuff and put it out? Oh, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to keep happening.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey We’ll see.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, but it seems like he’s learned his lesson now and he’s buying

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco outdoor stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was really cheap. But anyway, the- Oh my gosh. The other one still

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John works. I put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it under a wooden thing. I did. That’s why it lasted through multiple storms. It just didn’t last

⏹️ ▶️ Marco through all of them. Exactly.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, it just, yeah, almost a month it lasted. It’s great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Anyway, so I replaced it with one of their outdoor cameras, and it is substantially worse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All of the positive experiences I had with the indoor one, I cannot say the same

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about the outdoor one. And so I don’t want to, you know, slag on them too much because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, maybe I just have a bad model or maybe I have a dud or maybe my Wi-Fi doesn’t reach it well enough,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but like the indoor camera in the exact same location worked so much better until it didn’t. But that was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my fault again. But you know, anyway, all this is to say I am substantially disappointed by their outdoor camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco offering that I’ve tried so far. And so I’m phasing that out and moving

⏹️ ▶️ Marco over to just more Logitech CircleViews for HomeKit which has been working

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fine. The Logitech ones have been working great, so I’m just sticking with them now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Real-time follow-up on the PlayStation 5 memory thing. They only give read performance, which

⏹️ ▶️ John makes sense, because most of the time you’re just reading game data off of the thing, so the write performance is unknown, but the minimum

⏹️ ▶️ John spec is. But the read performance is 5,500 megabytes per second, capital B. That

⏹️ ▶️ John is the minimum spec. So, obviously writing is much more difficult than reading,

⏹️ ▶️ John but again, with a RED camera, I believe it.

Dock auto-hide delay pref

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, and our final piece of follow up, we were talking a couple weeks, maybe even a few weeks back, about a doc auto-hide

⏹️ ▶️ Casey delay. And basically, when we were shaming each other’s docs, and I said, I like to auto-hide.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And Danny Tseng wrote in with some information with regard to how to decrease, or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all but kill, the auto-hide delay. There’s a link to a different website that will put in the show notes. But the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey short, short version is we will put also in the show notes the defaults write incantations you need in order

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to make that happen. So check that out if you are interested.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John And

⏹️ ▶️ John you still didn’t mention that we talked about this on the past show. We just didn’t have the defaults right command. So now

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey if you wondered,

⏹️ ▶️ John what do I type into terminal to make the thing that was mentioned three shows ago happen? It will be in the show notes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Did I not just say we were talking about this? Am I having a stroke?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Right,

⏹️ ▶️ John but you didn’t say, and we also said during that segment, hey, because

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I asked you,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey did

⏹️ ▶️ John you decrease the delay on the animation? Because when you were saying you went to auto, I said, no, I didn’t decrease the delay animation.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then I said, you know, you can decrease the delay.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John Sorry, dad.

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iPhone 13 Pro setup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, can we talk iPhones 13? Please. Is that okay? All right. Do you want to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey start, John, or shall I?

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll start because I don’t have much of a story. I just have one complaint. This is my wife’s phone. It’s not even mine, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I was helping with the setup thing. I decided to try to do the device-to-device transfer because Gruber is raving

⏹️ ▶️ John about it. I think I’ve done that in past phones. I generally

⏹️ ▶️ John do the iCloud one just because it gets you a working phone, a quote-unquote working phone faster, even

⏹️ ▶️ John even as you know, used to be really bad. We’re like, you’d have applications on page two, they’re just like waiting days to download. But it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John gotten so much better recently that did the iCloud thing all the time. But the promise

⏹️ ▶️ John of device to device was like, it’s almost as good as an iTunes backup, I didn’t have to relog into Slack and all my data was

⏹️ ▶️ John like, alright, well, as long as my wife’s willing to be without her phone for however many hours is going to

⏹️ ▶️ John take to do this device to device transfer, I can say the promises that you won’t have to log back into as much stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ John It obviously won’t be perfect, but she has less of a problem than I do on my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John You recall last year when it was my year to get a new phone, I had the whole hassle with the

⏹️ ▶️ John two-factor authentication stuff, and apparently device-to-device transfer would have handled that better for me, although I’ve actually got that

⏹️ ▶️ John problem solved by other means now because the apps that I use have been updated since then. She doesn’t use test

⏹️ ▶️ John flight apps, as Casey found out. If you use test flight apps, device-to-device transfer doesn’t give a damn. Those aren’t

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be trying you. And you know, you Casey were saying, why does my home screen look different? It’s like, oh, I’m missing five apps

⏹️ ▶️ John because they’re all test flights.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco In all fairness, I don’t think any of the new phone installation methods transfer test flight apps.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Yeah, no, they never have. They’ve

⏹️ ▶️ John never

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco been transferred.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m just saying like this one also continues to not do that. And it makes some sense because those are managed by test

⏹️ ▶️ John flight, but you know, Apple, that’s part of Apple now. So I feel like they could, if they want to be nice, get this on board, but it’s an

⏹️ ▶️ John edge case, who cares? But anyway, I did the device to device transfer. It does say, this is gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John take a super long time And it’s annoying, this process is annoying because there are various points where there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a long wait and then it prompts you. And I like the type of thing where, yeah, go through a series of prompts

⏹️ ▶️ John in the beginning and then I can walk away for a few hours. Don’t do that with device-to-device transfer, especially since there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John various phases where it’s like, I don’t remember what it said, but there’s various phases where it sits there for a while thinking,

⏹️ ▶️ John and then it wants you to confirm or do some other thing like 20 or 30 minutes later,

⏹️ ▶️ John because it thinks that step is gonna take three minutes, but really if you have tons of stuff in your phone, it might not.

⏹️ ▶️ John Eventually it gave me some reading of many hours. It didn’t take that many hours, but it did take multiple

⏹️ ▶️ John hours. It was pretty slow. And when it was done, I think the phone more or less, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John had all the stuff on it. So good success there. But I continue

⏹️ ▶️ John my streak and my wife’s streak for I don’t know how long. Every time

⏹️ ▶️ John we get a new phone, we have to call Verizon on the telephone. Why? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone can’t make phone calls when we’re done, right? No matter how we do the thing like, hey, I am ordering the new phone

⏹️ ▶️ John on the phone that is replacing. And the Apple store knows

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that. And

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s like, oh, or do you want this new phone to replace the one that you’re making the order on? And you say,

⏹️ ▶️ John yes, I believe it has worked for me at least once in the past, but recently,

⏹️ ▶️ John not so much. So she did that with her phone. We did all the big setup. We got the phone out of the box, did all the thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, set it up, did all that stuff. I think maybe if

⏹️ ▶️ John we physically moved the SIM from one phone to the other, this would have worked. But my recollection is the

⏹️ ▶️ John time that it worked for me, I didn’t move the physical SIM from one phone to the other, but it was so long ago, who knows? But anyway, we

⏹️ ▶️ John wanted to use the eSIM, the aforementioned eSIM that Casey was just saying all those nice things about.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so my wife said, I’d like to try the eSIM. Let’s not move the physical SIM. Let’s just see if we can get this to work. And the answer was no,

⏹️ ▶️ John just, you know, your phone can’t make phone calls right now. And it was really confusing if you looked on it, it seemed to think you had a plan, but of course you

⏹️ ▶️ John couldn’t make any calls and you couldn’t do any cellular data. What was I supposed

⏹️ ▶️ John to do? I think I had the same question last year. Is there something I could do differently to successfully have

⏹️ ▶️ John a iPhone 13 Pro with an eSIM taking over for my wife’s iPhone 11

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro with a regular SIM? Maybe, I don’t know. But in the end, of course, we have to call Verizon.

⏹️ ▶️ John And if you ever wanted to call your cell phone carrier, the worst day to do it is on iPhone day.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Because

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody’s calling them, and so we’re on hold for so long that our

⏹️ ▶️ John cordless phone, what do they call them? I guess they just call them phones. And if anyone listening to this still has a landline phone

⏹️ ▶️ John in their house. Oh my word. And that phone is, it used to be the landline phones were connected with a cord

⏹️ ▶️ John to a thing that was mounted to a wall or sitting on a desk. Anyway, we have cordless phones in our house because

⏹️ ▶️ John we still do have a landline because our cell signal sucks. And we were on hold so long

⏹️ ▶️ John that the battery died on our cordless

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Just from sitting on the desk, listening to the terrible, massively over-compressed clipping,

⏹️ ▶️ John extremely high volume hold music, Verizon. And then you eventually get someone on the phone and you talk to them and

⏹️ ▶️ John you explain the situation and they’re like, sometimes they say, oh, that should have worked for you. It’s like, yeah, but it never does.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s just my disappointment. It’s still 2021, you buy a new iPhone, you try

⏹️ ▶️ John to do everything the right way and you still gotta spend an hour, two hours on hold with Verizon to

⏹️ ▶️ John get your phone working. But once you did that, they push whatever buttons they need to push on their end. We did not have to move the SIM.

⏹️ ▶️ John Now I believe my wife has an eSIM and it is working. Maybe the next time she upgrades

⏹️ ▶️ John her phone in two years, it will work the way it’s supposed to.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Godspeed. Wow. Oh, all right. So I set up two phones. I set up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey both mine and Aaron’s. For mine, I listened to Gruber and I did the device

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to device transfer. It did work. It took four f**king

⏹️ ▶️ Casey ever. It was so slow. I don’t know, maybe it was user

⏹️ ▶️ Casey error, I don’t know what happened, but it was like easily two and a half, maybe three hours. I was quoted as two. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey alarmingly for anything over an hour, the bar on, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey forget if it was the source of destination phone, I would assume the destination, but the bar was moving,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but the time estimate just stayed at about two hours. From looking at the bar

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gaining like 10, 20, 30% in about two hours. It wasn’t until it was under an

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hour that it’s finally like, Oh, oh, oh, oh, I can do this by minute now. Yeah, it’ll be 57 minutes, 56 minutes, 55 minutes. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey where the hell were you for the last hour and a half? Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John so frustrating.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But anyway, but it took forever. And I learned from that. And with errands,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I did a once iCloud, or excuse me, once iTunes Now Finder

⏹️ ▶️ Casey backup. And I still maintain, in my personal opinion, that’s the right way to go. I know that’s barbaric for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey most of you. I know you think that’s silly. I know a lot of you don’t have enough storage space to do that. But for those of us who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do, I still think that’s the best way to go. To be fair, I have not tried an iCloud backup in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a long, long, long time, or an iCloud-based restore. So maybe that’s even better than a Finder

⏹️ ▶️ Casey backup, but the one I did for Aaron, I thought was way faster. And the advantage of doing it that way for me

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was that I could do the Finder backup the day before, and yeah, I might lose like a few hours worth of text messages or whatever,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but it’s not anything critical. And so I could do like the hour-long Finder backup

⏹️ ▶️ Casey as long as you encrypt it, because otherwise you will lose all your logins. your encrypted Finder backup, you do the night before,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey maybe the morning of, and then you do the restore later, and it takes like an hour, and lickety-split,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you’re ready to rock. It is frustrating, although I understand it, that no matter what mechanism I chose, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey always had to re-download all my apps, which was a real pain, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey neither here nor there. But all in all, the upgrade process worked pretty well. I moved physical

⏹️ ▶️ Casey SIMs, which is my preferred way of doing it thus far. Although after everyone’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey good, good words about eSIMs, I might try doing that in the future.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t know. We’ll see what happens. But anyway, I personally recommend to doing the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Finder backup if at all possible, but that’s just my two cents. Marco, what did you do to get rid of your beloved

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mini and go to a big boy iPhone?

⏹️ ▶️ John Or first, how did you, how did you, what was your system for making sure that you were setting up the correct two phones

⏹️ ▶️ John out of the four that arrived?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, so yeah, all four arrived. The two that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was trying to cancel and send back, I was able to very easily because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you go on Apple’s website and you go into your orders, if you go to the invoice,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’ll say view invoice, it’ll tell you the serial number of the phone on the order.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And on the outside of the box is a sticker that tells you the part number and serial number of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the phone inside. So I was able to identify and return the two duplicate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ordered phones without even opening them. So I could just look at the serial number on the outside and compare it. So it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was easy, it was done nice, you know, very high confidence that I had the right ones. Those are on their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way back now. I hope and assume they’ll get there. So I, you know, I unpacked the correct

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one. I did the phone to phone transfer, the official Gruber method. I had a similar experience as Casey where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it did take a very long time and it said it also gave the about two hours estimate.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It ended up being a fairly accurate time estimate. it did take about two hours, but with the lack of granularity,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually ended up, you know the little strip of paper that you have to like tear across to open the box?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. I ended up laying that strip on the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey screen of the phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at the tip of the progress bar so I could see, so I could come back later and see has the progress bar

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moved past the strip of paper.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John See, if

⏹️ ▶️ John the iPhone had a cursor, you wouldn’t have to do that. You could use the tried and true method of putting the arrow cursor next to

⏹️ ▶️ John it. My device to device transfer was stuck on seven minutes remaining for about a half an hour. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ John neat. That’s always reassuring, because it just said about seven minutes remaining. And then I’d come back in 10 minutes, it would say about

⏹️ ▶️ John seven minutes remaining. I was like, hmm. It eventually completed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, you know the two hardest problems of computer science, right? Cache invalidation, naming

⏹️ ▶️ Marco things, counting, and progress bars. Anyway, so the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco rest of the process was fairly straightforward. It did complete it in about two hours. Nothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bad happened, really. Like it moved the watch over after I bugged it a few times, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was actually extra surprising because the watch had taken it upon itself to update itself to the 8.1

⏹️ ▶️ Marco beta the day before. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey cool.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I kept the phone from doing that. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John why I should throw in my thing here because I’d heard groovy stories like, oh, and it offers to transfer your watch and you just say yes.

⏹️ ▶️ John And of course, you know, my wife has a watch and it did indeed say, hey, do you want to transfer your watch to the new phone? And we said

⏹️ ▶️ John yes. And it seemed like it worked until we hit the bug, which is that apparently there’s

⏹️ ▶️ John a bug in iOS 15 that is I think fixed in the 15.1 beta that’s out now, where, what

⏹️ ▶️ John is it, using the watch to unlock, so you can use

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco face- Yeah, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco masked face ID unlock with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John the watch. Exactly,

⏹️ ▶️ John there is a preference to enable that, but on my wife’s phone and on other people afflicted by this bug, when

⏹️ ▶️ John you press that little- Including me. Yeah, when you press that little switch to enable it, it says, unable

⏹️ ▶️ John to communicate with Apple Watch, and then you just can’t enable it, and it’s a bug, Apple acknowledges it, we’ll put a link in the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes to their tech note about it. They will fix it in an upcoming release. But that’s kind of a bummer, kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of like, you know, oh, everything will be transferred over and everything will work great, except the one feature you most need

⏹️ ▶️ John out of your watch in this world where we’re still wearing masks,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey doesn’t quite

⏹️ ▶️ Casey work out. It’s so, so frustrating. And I got burned by that, by device to device transfer. Well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I shouldn’t say by a device to device transfer, but I did do a device to device transfer, I got burned. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sounds like Tina got burned in the same way from a device to device. Aaron did not get burned by this and she did a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey finder backup. I’m just gonna throw that out there. Correlation is not causation, but

⏹️ ▶️ John hey. I’m not sure what the cause is because I’ve heard lots of people with different stories, but here’s one thing I will say, and this is

⏹️ ▶️ John just general advice, especially on like, you know, if you get a new iPhone on day one or whatever. When you

⏹️ ▶️ John have problems like this and you find other people reporting them, it’s difficult to

⏹️ ▶️ John know in the moment, you’re trying to set up your new toy or whatever, did I mess something up?

⏹️ ▶️ John Is there some way I can get this to work? or is this just as it is in this case, just playing a bug

⏹️ ▶️ John with iOS 15 and there actually is no way to get it to work. It’s so hard

⏹️ ▶️ John to know that. What I would suggest is I know people get impatient, but like

⏹️ ▶️ John wait a day or two, live with the bug for a day or two because lots of people, if you look at all like the, you know, Twitter

⏹️ ▶️ John threads and people discussing things on Reddit or whatever, they’re like, I wiped my whole phone, I factory

⏹️ ▶️ John reset it, I did another backup to iTunes, I restored the phone, I wipe my watch

⏹️ ▶️ John and restore that. And like, you just think of how many hours people put into just like, cause you know how long it takes to do

⏹️ ▶️ John this. If you just empty out your entire phone and erase everything and try to do backup. Sometimes it

⏹️ ▶️ John solved the problem for people. A lot of the times it didn’t. You will be much happier not

⏹️ ▶️ John spending literal like, you know, seven hours of your life wiping

⏹️ ▶️ John and restoring, especially if you have an older watch and it takes forever.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Wiping and

⏹️ ▶️ John restoring watches and phones and repairing and unpairing and doing all the things only to find that after

⏹️ ▶️ John that seven hours of you just like babysitting these things and wiping and restoring them,

⏹️ ▶️ John you haven’t solved your problem. Then the next day you find this, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John support article, article that Apple says, oh yeah, our bad, that’s a bug. We’re gonna have to fix it in updating release. Just

⏹️ ▶️ John wait, like, cause you know, I read all the things, I’m like, I’m not going to do

⏹️ ▶️ John that. I’m not going to spend any more hours working on this. In three days, I will know whether this is a bug

⏹️ ▶️ John or whether this is just a, you know, a thing that I can work around somehow. And now I’m just content

⏹️ ▶️ John to wait for 15.1 when this gets worked out. But if, because you will see people said, I just erased

⏹️ ▶️ John everything in my house, burned, you know, I burned down my whole house, built a new life for myself, and now my watch pairs correctly.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco It’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey okay,

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, that might’ve worked for you. I’m not gonna do that though. And I recommend you not do it too,

⏹️ ▶️ John because that process of backing up and restoring and factory resetting takes so long and is

⏹️ ▶️ John potentially error prone. That’s a good way for you to accidentally lose stuff if during the backup your Mac dies or

⏹️ ▶️ John like you mess up somehow or you forgot there was some piece of data that you didn’t realize wouldn’t transfer. Now

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s gone forever. Chill, wait a few days, find out what the real deal is. Don’t try

⏹️ ▶️ John to, don’t try to be a debugging hero and don’t try like, because you see one comment on Reddit

⏹️ ▶️ John that says, I just erased everything in my life and remarried and everything works now.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Wow.

⏹️ ▶️ John Wait.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Oh my. Moving right along.

Physical impressions

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So, hey, what colors did you guys all get? I don’t recall

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what you said you had ordered, but I got a 256 gig iPhone 13 Pro in Sierra Blue.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The Sierra Blue is very light, very, very, very light. It is much lighter than I expected.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And in fact, in most lighting, I would say it actually looks more like a off-color

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gray, which sounds bad, but I don’t mean it that way. But it looks like a kind of funky gray in a lot of light, more

⏹️ ▶️ Casey than it does legitimately blue. In sunlight, it’s legitimately blue,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I do like it. It’s funny because I don’t think I’m doing a good job of selling it at all. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do like it, but it is not nearly as blue as perhaps I would have preferred in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a perfect world. I like it. I don’t absolutely love it, but I definitely like it. I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any regrets about getting this particular color. John, what did Tina end up selecting?

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s the same phone as you, and it’s in a case that doesn’t really matter. I was not surprised by what Sierra

⏹️ ▶️ John Blue looks like. look to me like I expected to look in the pictures. Maybe the I expected

⏹️ ▶️ John to see be able to see a little bit more blue in the band than I can see, but it doesn’t really matter that much. I handled

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone a bit, you know, during the setup process and stuff like that. And I following

⏹️ ▶️ John my my iPhone case regime, which is essentially iPhone case, iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ John cases are put onto their phones only once and taken off only once.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And the reason I

⏹️ ▶️ John do that is I’m worried about the case fatiguing and

⏹️ ▶️ John getting loose, you know what I mean? If it’s taken off and put on multiple times, or I’m also worried about myself

⏹️ ▶️ John bending or breaking the phone because some of these cases are super tight. So all that meant no cases going

⏹️ ▶️ John on this phone until we’ve resolved the whole carrier eSIM SIM situation, because the last thing you want to

⏹️ ▶️ John do is put the case on the phone and then have to take it off and take out the SIM and put it back and go back, you know.

⏹️ ▶️ John So I handled it, what I’m saying is I handled it without the case for a while to see what that was like.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And

⏹️ ▶️ John it didn’t feel that different. Remember I used my 12 Pro without a case for a while as well, it felt very similar. I didn’t even

⏹️ ▶️ John really notice the weight. I felt like I kind of noticed the extra thickness a little tiny bit, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John hard to say because I’m so aware of the specs, whether I would notice if I didn’t know about all these things.

⏹️ ▶️ John Did notice when the phone was sitting on the desk right in front of me and I would, during the setup process,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s a lot of, you know, time to do stuff, and some prompts would come up and it would want me to type

⏹️ ▶️ John something on the on-screen keyboard. And I’d try typing on the on-screen keyboard and the thing would rock, what felt like half a centimeter

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco because the camera fold is

⏹️ ▶️ John so big. Like it doesn’t just rock a little or just, you know, it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John boy, you cannot type with the keyboard at the bottom, like in portrait mode. You cannot press

⏹️ ▶️ John any of those keys

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey that are in the right

⏹️ ▶️ John half of the keyboard.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey The

⏹️ ▶️ John whole phone goes, ch-chunk, ch-chunk, ch-chunk. It’s very, very

⏹️ ▶️ John unstable, very sort of tippy by a big distance, not a little distance, right? But I’m like,

⏹️ ▶️ John okay, well, I’m not gonna use another case. So who cares what it’s like now, but just FYI, if you think you’re gonna put your phone on the

⏹️ ▶️ John table and type on the keyboard when it’s flat on the table, you are not, right? So anyway, eventually got into the

⏹️ ▶️ John case one time, although my policy doesn’t matter because my wife changes her case when she wants a different color. So

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t even wanna know what I’m bothering to do, but anyway, did it for now. Put the purple Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John leather case on it. And I do find as many people have reported that my fingers find

⏹️ ▶️ John and hit the camera bump on the back of the case, which is something I do not notice on my 12 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John because my 12 Pro with the case on is basically flush on the back. But when I’m just using this phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ll be like, what

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey is

⏹️ ▶️ John this on the back of the, oh, it’s the camera bump. Like I will actually touch it and hit it with my fingers. Not,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s not a big deal. Like it’s not, it doesn’t really interfere with it, but it’s something that never happens in my flat

⏹️ ▶️ John backed, you know, 12 Pro with the case because the case flattens it out. And it kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of makes me happy that I have the 12 Pro and not the 13 Pro,

⏹️ ▶️ John because I like the way the 12 Pro feels in my hand better. I don’t like the camera,

⏹️ ▶️ John but I like the fact that it lays flat. In fact, the only physical feature that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John jealous of about the 13 Pro is that they moved all the buttons down on the side slightly, something we didn’t mention last show, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ John The power button and the volume buttons have moved down a bit, and I think that’s a good move. I think they’re not moved down a lot, but they’re moved down a little

⏹️ ▶️ John bit, and I think it’s a better position for them now. But other than that, physically speaking, I

⏹️ ▶️ John really, I’m kind of glad I have my 12 Pro and don’t have to deal with a giant camera bump. Of course,

⏹️ ▶️ John I would love to have those cameras, but we’ll talk about that in a bit.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Marco, let’s start with what color you got. And then if you wouldn’t mind, I’d like to hear a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey about what you think of the new size.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I have opinions. So I- You? I got the blue Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I got the same phone you did, the 256 blue non-max Pro.

⏹️ ▶️ John We all got exactly the same phone this year. Same storage side and same color. Yep. I think that’s the first time that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey happened in the history of the show.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think it is, yeah. And I’m coming from a 12 mini that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really, really liked. As I mentioned towards the end, the battery life was really kind of getting to me, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco overall, other than that, I really liked it. And this 13 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a big, heavy phone. is a big, heavy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone. This, you know, I know that this has become like the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco default slash, you know, quote, normal size. This is not a normal size.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This is a plus phone. Like, when like the 6 Plus first came out, and you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of people tried it. I tried it, I bought one for testing, because it was a really weird device for developers in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain ways. So I bought one for testing, and I took it as my only phone on a couple of trips and tried

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it for a week here and there. And every time I tried the Plus phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I always thought, well, I like some of the benefits of this, but my God, is it big in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pocket. And it wasn’t even heavy, weight wasn’t even its problem. It was just really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big in the pocket, and that’s really awkward. And I eventually, I tried it here and there, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I ended up always going back to the smaller size, the medium-sized phones.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I had the 10 and the 10S and the 11, those are, and the 11 Pro, I mean, those were all, you know, near

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this size and I had all those phones. And then when they released the 12, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco made it a little bit bigger and they made the sides flat and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whole phone just got even bigger and even heavier. And I remember when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was leaving the large size and when I went to the mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for, you know, last year, I said one of the big reasons why I was excited about the Mini was just how much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lighter it was. Because these phones had gotten so heavy and so big

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and that we had grown to just accept that what used to be the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco outrageously large 6 Plus, that’s now the regular

⏹️ ▶️ Marco size that most people get, but now they’re even heavier. You know?

⏹️ ▶️ John And- Do you actually do a size comparison? Was the 6 Plus, like what dimension wise, was the 6 Plus

⏹️ ▶️ John wider, taller, are the same as that, because my recollection from the phone is that

⏹️ ▶️ John the 12 Pro is still in fact not as tall and not as wide as the 6 Plus.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think you’d be surprised, but I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John one here. I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, the 6 Plus was way thinner, I think.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was thinner, and I think it was probably half the weight. And also bendier. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John that’s a bit of a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco problem. I didn’t have that problem, I didn’t use mine enough. But anyway, so the,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco This phone, I’m what, almost a week in to having it now, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m still not used to the size and the weight. It still feels giant and heavy

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in my pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so quick interruption, real-time follow-up. iPhone 6 Plus, 172 grams.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPhone 13 Pro, 204 grams.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco right, not that much heavier. It’s heavier, but it’s not. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pretty, it’s noticeable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco What about the sizing?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Has the- You

⏹️ ▶️ John didn’t look at the dimensions?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That’s what I thought. Okay, well,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I thought that was more prudent, or more important one. All right, so dimension six plus. Height

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is 158 millimeters, pro 13, 146 millimeters. So it is a little bit,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the 13 is a little bit squatter. Width is about 78 millimeters versus about 71 millimeters.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So again, a little bit thinner. Depth is, let’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see, 7 millimeters versus, it’s 7.65 millimeters, so it is a little bit deeper, which I thought we knew,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but, so a little bit thinner.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that’s not counting the camera mountain.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Correct, I believe that’s right, I’m just looking at Wikipedia. But yeah, so it’s a little bit thinner,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a little bit less wide, a little bit shorter, but a little bit deeper,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and certainly heavier, than a 6 Plus.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And part of this, part of why this feels so big to me, is that I’m coming from the last year of using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 12 mini. And the 12 mini, when you go from mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this size, that is a much bigger jump, in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco opinion, than going from the Pro to the Pro Max. Now, when I handle Tiff’s phones, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tiff has the Pro Max, when I handle that, before, when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I was using the 12 mini every day, it felt almost ridiculous that these were two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the same product. It’s like when you see a really tiny dog and a really massive dog standing next to each other, and you’re like, how can this be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the same animal? Like, it was like that. Now, the Max

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t seem like that big of a jump over what I have. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John it-

⏹️ ▶️ John Until you try to put it in your pocket, because I still maintain that the Max breaks through some kind of pocket

⏹️ ▶️ John barrier where it becomes like, this is not comfortable in any pocket. Whereas I know the Mini, obviously,

⏹️ ▶️ John is way smaller and way more comfortable in more kinds of pockets, but I still find the 12 size and the 13 size to

⏹️ ▶️ John be pocketable. whereas the Max size now is sort of distending my wardrobe with its bulk and

⏹️ ▶️ John its, I don’t have any, and my hand for that matter, when I pick up a

⏹️ ▶️ John Max phone, I know what you’re saying, like I think you’re right that like if I gave you a mini in your hand and then I gave you

⏹️ ▶️ John the Pro, it would feel like a bigger jump than the Pro to the Max, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John But in terms of, can I use this thing like in one hand with my thumb, the Max

⏹️ ▶️ John breaks, is beyond my finger size. Like I just, it becomes,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, you’re shimmying all over the place. You just can’t get to it. Whereas the 12 Pro and the 13 Pro

⏹️ ▶️ John is within the realm of reason for my hand. So I would still, like in terms

⏹️ ▶️ John of size, I would still say that the Max is more uncomfortable for me. Going from the regular

⏹️ ▶️ John to the Max is more uncomfortable to me than going in the other direction.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right, that’s fair. I mean, I, again, I haven’t tried going to the Max with the exception of just handling to his phone here and there.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John maybe I’m just- Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John try actually using it as your phone and carrying it around with you all day and try and use it one-handed when you’re doing stuff and realize

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t reach anywhere on this phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, probably. And I haven’t really had that problem with this move. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco certain things have been a little harder to reach, but I was able, you know, I rearranged like two

⏹️ ▶️ Marco icons on my home screen and it was fine. Like it hasn’t been that big of a deal. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that part was fine, cause I’m like, you know, this is very close to the screen size that I used for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whatever it was, three, four years. So overall, the size to me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I am still not used to it. I don’t know if I’m ever gonna get used to it. It’s just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a big, heavy brick to me. And I think, and I’ll get to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I like about the phone later. I think there are certain things about it that I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco willing to tolerate that big, heavy brickness for. But it’s just such a big difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And when I see the mini line, and when I see that the mini line is able

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to achieve like 80% of what I like about this phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in such a more pocketable and handleable size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’ve never more wished for a Pro Mini. And I know there are challenges

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with that. Obviously the battery is gonna be the biggest one. You know, physically it’s just probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very hard to even fit something like the giant camera module. I mean, I have my Mini right here next

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to this. If you look at the Mini, Like if you look at the backs of both phones, so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can see the camera modules, it looks, you would never say that the 12 mini

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next to the 13 Pro with this little tiny two camera module versus this massive three

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera, you would never say this was a one year change. You would think this is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, the mini’s the phone from five years ago and the Pro is the phone from now because the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco module got so much bigger. And so like, I understand

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it would be a heck of a challenge to try to fit that kind of camera module into the Mini.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I’m not saying that I’m blaming them for not doing it, I just wish they could do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it. And hopefully over time, maybe they’ll be able to do stuff like that. Because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just love these cameras, I’ll get to that, but my god this phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a brick. It’s so big and heavy compared to this mini that has pretty

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much all the other features. So wow, I just, I hope over time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know I don’t jump at any chance to tell Apple they should make their stuff thinner and lighter. Because that’s usually,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually comes with compromises I don’t want, but I really hope that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is not just like the new baseline that, oh, our phones are just always gonna be this big and heavy if you want

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the good camera and the good battery life. because it’s really big and heavy.

Wardrobe malfunctions

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I and I wonder and this is this is an honest question. Okay, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I swear I am not joking. Where am I supposed to put

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this phone? Am I supposed to put it in my pants?

⏹️ ▶️ John Steve jobs were here. He would say, I’ll tell you where you can put it. Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’m so okay. I understand, you know, men in America don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco usually carry like a handbag or anything like that. So we have to somehow carry the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone on our person somewhere. And I also understand that belt clips have been out of style

⏹️ ▶️ Marco since they existed. And so where am I supposed to put

⏹️ ▶️ John it? You can put it in your front pocket. It fits fine.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It doesn’t fit fine. When I put it in my front pocket,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it doesn’t stick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out. No, it doesn’t stick out or

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco fall

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out. He’s a little shorty person, John.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, it doesn’t stick out or fall out, but as I’m walking

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it like swings over to the front of my leg Maybe your pockets are too big. No, not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco only does it know and you know, I’m wearing like fairly snugly fitting I’m not like these aren’t like big baggy pants.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These are these are stretch jeans. So I mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Performance pants.

⏹️ ▶️ John Let me reference the piece of clothing that all three of us probably own. Do you have the Mack Weldon shorts?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have the exercise shorts that the soft ace ones and the the running ones.

⏹️ ▶️ John I have the regular The regular Mack Weldon shorts have become my go-to shorts.

⏹️ ▶️ John Not just because they sponsor the show Yes, they’re a sponsor the khaki ones like the but but also they’re

⏹️ ▶️ John kind of a stretchy material I was just like the default shorts, but also because I found that my

⏹️ ▶️ John previous just like crappy like around-the-house summer Like champion shorts from like Costco

⏹️ ▶️ John or Target or whatever, you know I’m talking about like just sweat shorts kind of things. Those have the problem you’re describing

⏹️ ▶️ John where the pockets are so big and the material is so loose that if I put a phone like this in it and I walk at a brisk pace, I

⏹️ ▶️ John feel the phone kind of slapping against my leg up and down. The Mack Weldon shorts do not have that problem

⏹️ ▶️ John because I think the pockets are a little bit tighter and the material is stretchy. And also

⏹️ ▶️ John the other problem I had, because I think I bought my clothes all too big, was that my phone would start to pull down my shorts on that side of

⏹️ ▶️ John my body

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco as I walked

⏹️ ▶️ John because of the weight of the phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You’re talking about a different set of problems than what I have. First of all, if your phone is bouncing up and down,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your shorts are too loose. That’s, you need different shorts.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s not like I’m getting tailor-made shorts. I get the size where the waistband is comfortable on me.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like small, medium, and large, right? These are cheap. Anyway, all I’m saying is the Mack Weldon

⏹️ ▶️ John shorts, I think, had a appreciable improvement in sort of keeping the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John close to my leg as I walk. So I would recommend at least try. I think you have to have a pair of these shorts.

⏹️ ▶️ John We all have a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco pair of these

⏹️ ▶️ John shorts.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I can tell you,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have the Ace and I have the Stratus, but I think it sounds like you might be talking about the Maverick Tecchino

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or the Radius. I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John have the- I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know all these names you’re much more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco familiar with. I have extra size shorts from them.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m literally wearing them right now, but of course I can’t look at the tag. John, calm down, calm

⏹️ ▶️ Casey down. Please

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco try.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Just hold on, just hold on. Do they have belt loops? Do your

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco sweatshirts or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John they are

⏹️ ▶️ Casey have belt

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John loops? They do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not. Okay, are they more of a plasticky feeling or do they feel more like sweatpants?

⏹️ ▶️ John They have a drawstring, does that help? They have a drawstring with little metal tips in the drawstrings?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, it’s the drawstring mounted on the inside or the outside.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Outside. So it’s gotta be the Ace, right?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s what I’ve been thinking this whole time. Yeah, it’s the Ace Sweatshort, which is excellent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco by the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way. Yeah, that’s almost always, that’s what I’m wearing when I’m doing a workout. Almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John always.

⏹️ ▶️ John And all right, Bill, when you walk with those with your phone, with your now giant phone in your pocket, I think you will find that

⏹️ ▶️ John you have less of the problem of it swinging to the center.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, okay, but so normally, so first of all, that’s a more casual fit

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than I would normally walk around a lot in.

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s nice, you got to wear your fancy shorts.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But also, I’m wearing pants, and so anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I’m wearing jeans. If you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John wearing pants, and you’re wearing jeans, I find I have no problem with the phone this size in my jeans front pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, shorts I find are more forgiving of large phones. They always have been, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they have a baggier, more casual fit usually around it. But jeans and pants usually are a little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco bit more snug up top, at least if you eat too much pizza like I do, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco normally you don’t have as much looseness in your pants pockets. So anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so getting back to the question, so I’ve always been a front pocket phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and wallet person. I never use my back pockets slash butt pockets. I never use it for anything because that’s,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t wanna break my back and I don’t like the way it looks. And I would be afraid of it just falling out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or me forgetting it’s there. So nothing goes in the butt pockets.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t wanna mess up the line of your butt because people are checking you out from behind. You want them to get the full

⏹️ ▶️ John picture of what you’ve got to offer.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Hey, I work out for a reason. So anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, my butt pockets are clear. So everything goes in front, you know, left is phone, right is wallet

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and anything else. So I cannot find a pair of pants where this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco giant heavy phone doesn’t like migrate over to the front of my leg as I’m walking.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that both looks and feels bad.

⏹️ ▶️ John Where is it going? In jeans pants, it’s migrating? I’ve never had this problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco When I insert the phone into the pocket, I try to basically align it onto the side of my leg,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like the outer edge of my leg. But then as I walk, it scoots forward and migrates

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the front of my leg, and that’s not what I want.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, it’s kind of like Merlin’s Jeans where you get the outline of the phone where you can see the corners eventually,

⏹️ ▶️ John and that shows where the natural place that the phone settles, because it’s not like a smear. There’s a clear place where the

⏹️ ▶️ John phone, I mean, it basically has to do

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the shape of your body. And you can see like, oh, those are my iPhone 5 pants, because you can see how big the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco outline is.

⏹️ ▶️ John Right, well, so it’s the shape of your leg and then the position and size of the pocket. And there is one place for the phone where it will find

⏹️ ▶️ John its most natural home. And I think if you’re fighting against that, you either need different shaped legs or different pockets.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, also, by the way, the butt pocket isn’t even an option because the phone doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fit in it without sticking out the top. Like the phones are so big now, and I know, please, any women

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out there who are listening and you’re like, oh, boo-hoo, because I know it sticks out of all of your pockets. We know.

⏹️ ▶️ John At least they’re real pockets on your pants, not just like fake pockets that look like pockets but have nothing in them.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I just, I want to know where am I supposed to be keeping my phone? Because it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t fit in the back pockets, it doesn’t work well in the front pockets,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and what else am I supposed to be doing? I mean, if I’m wearing a jacket, then it’s easy. Put it in one of those chest pockets

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the jacket that’s really big. But I don’t know what to do. I don’t know where I’m supposed to be putting my phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, I think you just put it in the front pocket of your jeans and whatever you say, it’s not working because you don’t like it when it goes to the front, but

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s where it goes on everybody. And I think we’re all okay with it. Like, I’m not sure what you’re worried about with the phone going to the front. I know

⏹️ ▶️ John you want it on this side, but apparently that’s not where the pockets are in your pants. The pants pockets are on the

⏹️ ▶️ John front. And so when you put the phone in the front pocket, the phone is in the front, it’s fine. Also, I would recommend when

⏹️ ▶️ John in jacket weather, I put my phone in the same jackets, like my hands go in,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, those pockets. What? Why? What? because that’s where my hands naturally

⏹️ ▶️ John are. And so if I want to get my phone out of my pocket, it’s in, I can put my hand in my pocket and there’s the phone and I can take

⏹️ ▶️ John it out and I can put it right back in. I mean, like-

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But doesn’t it fall out so incredibly easily?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No. Yeah, those pockets are very shallow. They move a lot and your hands are in, are taking up their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John space. Right, well, I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, I can imagine they would fall out if you have, again, it has to do with where is the pocket positioned and

⏹️ ▶️ John like how is it facing and so on and so forth. Like my pockets in the jackets that I wear,

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone doesn’t come out. A lot of my jacket pockets have zippers on them, so you can zip them up

⏹️ ▶️ John and then you know it’s not gonna fall out. But even ones that don’t, I know what you mean, like a lot of people have this problem

⏹️ ▶️ John with their pants pockets. They sit down and their phone goes, shoop, and that ends up in the couch cushions or

⏹️ ▶️ John whatever. It really depends on how the pocket is, how it’s facing. I’m sure there’s some tailor

⏹️ ▶️ John would know the difference between the type of pockets, but you basically need like a ledge in the pocket. So if you put your hands in your pockets

⏹️ ▶️ John of your jacket and there’s no kind of ledge, like if along the bottom of the jacket, straight line

⏹️ ▶️ John out of your pocket. Yeah, your phone’s gonna fall out and you’re gonna be a Casey and jump up to wash your car and crack your phone. But

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, my coat pockets aren’t like that. And I find it really convenient because I can always, then I always, I can put my hand on

⏹️ ▶️ John my phone. I can feel it when it vibrates. I can get in and out really easy. Um, so that’s my recommendation

⏹️ ▶️ John for, for whether when you have a jacket.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, if anybody can tell me how to operate my pants, please let me know.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So do you think the people from the UK are more offended by me justifiably snarking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey on their hilariously oversized plugs or by us saying pants a thousand times

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the last 10 minutes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey they’re used to it. Yeah, yeah. All right. So moving right along now that we’ve we’ve resolved that. Have we?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, I wanted to— No, not really.

Cases and handling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I wanted to give a quick shout out if you will to the Apple silicone case,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which is something I never thought I would say for Aaron’s phone. Yeah, seriously for Aaron’s phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey She for years had the what I would call light pink is always has a different name But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a light pink silicone case has been the case for years for the 12 pro. They didn’t offer

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it and We were too slow on the uptake to get a different kind of case And then she

⏹️ ▶️ Casey shattered her phone in the same style that I did in the span of her the first week I think this is her 12th.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So we, of course, neither of us are caseless Casey nor Aaron-less. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Casey she got the Apple silicone case and I actually really like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it a lot. I was very surprised. It is not nearly as, sticky

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the right word, tacky maybe is the right word.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, where it pulls your whole pocket lining out when you take it out of the pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Exactly. I mean, it’s still more than I would necessarily want, but it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at least in the realm of workable. Like in the past, I would tell you there is no freaking

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way I could put one of those in my pant pockets or trouser pockets all the time. I shouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey capitulate to them. I wouldn’t put one of those in my pant pockets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco all the time. No, we invented the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco language, damn it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s English traditional versus English modern. So anyway, so yeah, so I wouldn’t put one of these silicone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cases in my pocket or if she asked me to and I did for a few minutes, I’d be like, oh God,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give me 20 minutes to extract this thing. But the new one, again, it’s only been a few days, I haven’t had a whole lot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of experience and I haven’t had jeans on and I can’t even tell you how many months now. But so far,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve been very impressed with the Zolocone case. It feels really nice. It feels more fancy to me than the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey past ones did. The past ones felt kind of chintzy. I really, really, really like it a lot. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very surprised. And then today, both Marco and I, I believe, got our

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Nudient cases. I think it’s like a Nudient Thin V3 or something like that. I’ll put a link in the show notes.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This is what Paul Kifasas had recommended. So far, so good. mine in sky blue, I really like the color.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It matches well with the phone’s color in the humongous camera plateau. I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like it a lot. The cutout for the lock

⏹️ ▶️ Casey button, I feel like I wish it was a little bit, I don’t know,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wider, because I feel like the lock button is kind of buried within the cutout, if that makes sense.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And a little bit, that’s true of the volume buttons, but I find that less bothersome. However, overall, I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really like it and I’ve slapped my MagSafe battery on there just to see how it feels

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s still just fine. No particular problems there. In this case

⏹️ ▶️ Casey was $35. I will say, however, they use a very, what is it? What’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the term for this? Like a dark tactic or something like that. They use a terrible mechanism by which if you go to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey checkout, the default shipping is like $20 and it’s UPS, like super fast or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If you can’t, if you would like, you can change it to free shipping and it takes an additional few days. This thing actually

⏹️ ▶️ Casey came direct from Germany, which I was very surprised to see. But for 35 bucks, I’m actually very impressed

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with it after about three hours of use. Marco, thoughts on any cases that you may have gotten?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I still only have the Nudiant, the same one as you do. I got the darker blue color,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but actually it’s a little too dark. I think you chose the better color. Mine’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco almost black. So if I’m sticking with this case, I might end up getting the lighter one. Because yeah, I mean, for 35 bucks, it’s really

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not that bad of a deal. but overall I like the feeling of it because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s not silicone or leather. It’s one of those just kind of like semi-tacky

⏹️ ▶️ Marco plastics.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John I don’t know. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John vegan leather. That’s what they call it in car interiors now. They call it vegan leather, which I feel like is not

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe saying what they want it to be saying.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John But it’s not vegan leather. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, I mean, I’ve felt a lot of things that are vegan

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John leather. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ John everything technically is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco vegan leather. Yeah, I guess that’s true. But yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John no, it’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It doesn’t feel like a leather. Like it feels like a matte plastic,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if that makes sense. It’s a good feeling overall. I’m not super keen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the buttons because they use holes so that you can actually just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use the buttons on the phone, which is nice because they didn’t replace them with crappy button overlays,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it does make the buttons harder to press and you have to press in a little bit and I can’t operate the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco silence switch with one hand anymore. because it’s like, it’s slightly too recessed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I have to like hold the phone with one hand and use like my fingernail on the other hand to go over and hit it. So that’s, I don’t love

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that. But overall it’s fine, but I’ve been using

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it without a case for the last few days until this came today. And so far

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m liking it without a case because the case, you know, my main problem with this phone is that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s really big and heavy. And the case doesn’t add an appreciable amount of weight, but it does add size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it makes it even bigger in my pocket and it makes it even weirder in my pants situation

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it is slightly grippy in the pocket, it does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slightly pull the lining out of the pocket when I take it out, the way I always complain about Apple silicone cases doing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so it kind of makes the pants situation worse,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco whereas, and it makes the holding situation a little bit worse in those ways, like with the buttons. So I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know if I’m gonna keep using cases. I do have the Apple silicone case on order. I’m gonna try it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s gonna be here probably by next show. So I’ll see how that goes, but I’m not,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think for what this case is, the Nudient case, you know, for being an inexpensive,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco thin, like kinda tacky, but not leather or silicone case, it’s a pretty good version of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t know if that’s even what I’m looking for anymore now that I’ve actually tried it. So I’ll figure it out.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But in the meantime, I think I’m still going caseless. And the way it rocks on every surface

⏹️ ▶️ Marco does bother me, It is ridiculous. You know, the old one did that too, but not nearly to this degree.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I don’t know, I’ll see. I haven’t found the right solution yet.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do you find, either one of you find your finger touching either the giant,

⏹️ ▶️ John the great wall around the case on the back, or in Marco’s case, the extra camera bump more than

⏹️ ▶️ John it did on your previous phones?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, definitely touching the camera bump from time to time. It’s not, it’s not often,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but I’ve definitely been like, what the hell is, Oh, that’s the plateau, whoopsies.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m very often, because again, I hold my phone on my left hand because it comes out of my left pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so I’m often, my index finger on my left hand is often resting on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the edge of the bottom camera.

⏹️ ▶️ John I wonder if like, I mean, again, I think Apple’s gonna rethink this whole thing for the next phone and hopefully use those

⏹️ ▶️ John periscope things, but even if not, I wonder if in this round of cases,

⏹️ ▶️ John one approach that maybe a third party could use or something is instead of making the, you know, the wall around

⏹️ ▶️ John the camera bump to kind of do what people, what third-party cases have done with, or Apple, even Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John cases have done with battery cases, which is essentially slope the sides to

⏹️ ▶️ John hide the lump, like make it a gradual transition to the lump instead of having it flat, flat,

⏹️ ▶️ John flat, and then a giant wall, right? So that there is just a, basically a lump. And so you would never

⏹️ ▶️ John find yourself hitting anything protruding. It would just be one smooth slope up to

⏹️ ▶️ John the full height of the camera lump. And it would make your phone lopsidedly round

⏹️ ▶️ John on the back, like a sort of a bar of soap that had been used unevenly, right? But you would

⏹️ ▶️ John never encounter something like protruding from your phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’ll see what happens. It’s worth noting very quickly that the MagSafe Duo, this

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the like wallety

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John thing that- The $130 MagSafe Duo.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey That doesn’t include a charger.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yep, that’s right. the MagSafe Duo wallety thing that you’re supposed to travel with,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the camera plateau is so darn big that it is a little precarious when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used on the MagSafe Duo. And Marques Brownlee did a very good Twitter video of this. It’s like a minute and a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey half long. That’s worth watching. It’s quite funny, worth checking out.

⏹️ ▶️ John It doesn’t lay flat. Like basically the phone doesn’t, this is an inductive charging, you know, like a

⏹️ ▶️ John wireless charging thing that you’re supposed to lay your phone down on, but the camera bump is so big that it extends

⏹️ ▶️ John into the area where the phone is expected to be laying flat. So you can see daylight underneath the phone because the phone

⏹️ ▶️ John is on an angle. Still charges, it still works, but in general, the

⏹️ ▶️ John farther away the coil in your phone is from the coil in the charger, the less efficient the charging

⏹️ ▶️ John and the worse and the more heat. And so I don’t like being able to see daylight between my phone and the inductive charging mat,

⏹️ ▶️ John but that’s what you get for the big bump. And it’s kind of a shame.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously the coil doesn’t extend under the camera bump on the back of the phone. It’s just that

⏹️ ▶️ John the MagSafe Duo obviously is wider than the coil.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Indeed. As I was using this phone, the top speaker, so the thing that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would put your ear to in order to make a telephone call, it is like way up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey at the top of the screen area or at the top of the phone, and it just feels a little bit wrong. Like not to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the point that it’s bothersome, but I have how many years of having an iPhone speaker at

⏹️ ▶️ Casey roughly the same location, regardless of the iPhone that it’s within, And now I find that I have to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey pull the entire phone or place the entire phone like a little bit further down than I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey used to. Like- You do not have to

⏹️ ▶️ John move the phone farther down. No,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he’s right. You totally do have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John to. Like it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like two millimeters difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco matters. When I answer a call, I have to like, I’m like, at first I can’t hear the person. I gotta scoot it down slightly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yup,

⏹️ ▶️ John yup. I swear to you. Are you moving it more than two millimeters down? I would say two to five. We

⏹️ ▶️ John can measure how far the speaker has moved. it has not moved that far.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco I’m telling you, it matters,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because now it’s closer to the edge. If you’re accustomed to how the phone feels

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in your ear relative to the edge of the phone, it’s gonna be slightly different.

⏹️ ▶️ John Exactly. It’s gonna be different by the amount that the speaker moved. All I’m saying is it didn’t actually move like a centimeter.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a noticeable difference. I don’t care how much it is. I don’t care if it’s a micron. I’m telling you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can notice the difference. I’m serious,

⏹️ ▶️ John I can notice it. I mean, I do wonder if, especially in case that you have a case on, I talked about this before, I was saying that like they did move

⏹️ ▶️ John the thing up there and there is the potential that the case could screw with the sound. Again, I’m assuming

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s cases don’t accidentally cover the speaker, but the case being so close to the

⏹️ ▶️ John speaker could change how the sound bounces around and maybe that’s why you’re having to position

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey more than- You know what I mean? That’s a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very, very good theory, except I haven’t placed a phone call on my phone since I got a case on it literally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey four hours

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey ago.

⏹️ ▶️ John And then Marco doesn’t even have a case on his, so yeah. I mean,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know what? I know I took a call on it earlier with the case. It was fine. I will say also, by the way, before I forget,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the speakers are great. Like it’s a big, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John know. I don’t know if-

⏹️ ▶️ John Compared to the Mini, I bet.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco even people who are coming from the 12 Pro, the speakers are really good. They are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco both, I mean, compared to the Mini, at least I can tell you directly comparison, they are both

⏹️ ▶️ Marco noticeably louder and also noticeably less distortion, way clearer

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for podcast playback at least. It’s great.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would like to know what everyone thinks about ProMotion because ProMotion is Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey 120 hertz fast refresh thing. And I have had it on my, and we have had it on our

⏹️ ▶️ Casey iPad Pros since 2018, I believe. And when I got my 2018 iPad Pro, which is still the most

⏹️ ▶️ Casey recent iPad in the house, I think I might’ve noticed, maybe, when I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey picked up the iPhone 13 Pro, my socks flew off my, well, I wasn’t wearing socks, but still.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It was bananas to me how quickly I immediately noticed how fluid the animations

⏹️ ▶️ Casey look, how much better everything felt and looked and seemed. This

⏹️ ▶️ Casey promotion stuff, I am all in and I don’t want any phone that does not have it ever again.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I’m pretty sold as well. So unlike you, I did notice instantly

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the 10.5 inch iPad Pro the first time we saw it. I still remember this day, we were sitting at the old

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Slow Coffee Shop in San Jose.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Oh yeah, we have a good memory of that. and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a friend of ours who had a review unit was playing with it and I noticed it instantly, like just like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco swiping through home screens, you see, oh my God, that looks incredible. But at the same time, all this time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, when people, whenever the topic of it coming to the iPhone came up and people, especially

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people in the Android world would often criticize iPhones for not having high refresh rate screens yet.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And my position was always like, well, I’m sure it’ll be great when we get it, but I don’t need

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, you know, I don’t notice its absence. And so when I’ve been on the phone in the past, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never noticed, oh, I wish the frame rate was faster. But now that I’ve seen it,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh my God, it’s nice. It’s so nice. Like I especially notice it because,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t know if this is, if I’m just misremembering, but I think that ever since we’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco moved to OLED, I think scrolling has been a little bit mushier. Like scrolling text,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s been like a little bit blurrier since we’ve moved to OLED. And now it’s not.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Now it’s not only is it not blurry now, now it looks better than it even did on LCDs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I am just so happy with, even obviously the animations,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when you come in and out of apps, or you unlock the phone, and your home screen bounces in, all that stuff looks fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But I notice it most when I’m scrolling text. That to me is such a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco massive upgrade in visual quality and clarity, that again,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t think this would be a big deal. It is a big deal. It’s a really big deal.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And that alone, if I was having any doubts about whether

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I made the wrong move going to the Pro phone and having this giant heavy brick floating to the front of my pants all the time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that alone answers it for me. Nope, this is the right move. And that I think is a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good distinguishing feature for Apple to have to distinguish the Pro line from the non-Pro line. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if they have to pick something and make it pro only, this is a good one to pick because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s the kind of thing that most people don’t care about or notice. But if you do care and you do notice, you will pay

⏹️ ▶️ Marco extra for this because it is very, very good. And so far, I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco also been pretty impressed by the battery life. And I think that’s related because as we were talking about last episode,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco promotion, you know, if you’re doing a lot of motion, you could maybe use more battery life,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but in most common usage, you might actually be using less battery power doing stuff with promotion

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enabled because it is dynamically ramping the frame rate down when you’re not touching and moving the screen all the time.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So, so far, battery life has been great. And I think that also, that might have something to do with promotion,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of course. But even if it doesn’t, wow, promotion is great. And it’s way,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco way nicer of a thing than I expected it to be.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s a good time for me to continue to bang my limits of human perception drum and say, yeah, like promotion, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, if we’re finally getting to the point where we have frame rates where we get real diminishing returns, because

⏹️ ▶️ John you can tell 60 to 120. Could you tell 120 to 240? Maybe, but really, that’s diminishing returns.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so it’ll be great when variable refresh and at least 120 hertz max

⏹️ ▶️ John is on all devices everywhere. For the reason you just said, Marco, like you can, like scrolling text, like

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s kind of like, you just get used to the idea of, well, of course you can’t read text when it’s scrolling. Nobody can read text when it’s scrolling. And then

⏹️ ▶️ John you get 120 hertz screen, like, oh, we actually can kind of read desolation just because the refresh

⏹️ ▶️ John rate was too slow before. That said, my personal relationship with 120 Hertz, like, cause I’ve had it on

⏹️ ▶️ John my, you know, I have the iPad pro with it and everything. It’s kind of weird and I wonder,

⏹️ ▶️ John I’ve been trying to figure out like why, like I like it and I prefer

⏹️ ▶️ John it and I will buy devices that have it and I want them all to have it eventually. But I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John find it as like, oh, I can’t go back again to the 60 Hertz. And I wonder why that is, because again, It’s not like I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John see it, but I think it’s the way I interact with the screen. And the best theory I have is like,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, so I’m, if you know me, you know, I get terribly motion sick and I have for my entire life. And I’ve built up a

⏹️ ▶️ John lot of habits, you know, from my entire life, essentially around what does it take not

⏹️ ▶️ John to get motion sick? Cause I don’t really like feeling nauseated. It’s a terrible feeling. Does anybody

⏹️ ▶️ John like that feeling? I don’t know, but it’s like, it’s like one of the, if you’re afflicted with

⏹️ ▶️ John any condition that subjects you to that in places when normal people wouldn’t be subjected to it. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just like, it’s just this lurking, you know, just like at any moment you could be nauseated. It’s like, no, I don’t like that. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s, it feels worse to, to, to be vulnerable to that, like that you don’t have a protection

⏹️ ▶️ John at any moment. And the general theory, which I have subscribed to my whole life has been like, okay, well,

⏹️ ▶️ John if what your eyes see does not match what your inner ear feels,

⏹️ ▶️ John evolutionarily speaking, like that you, you may have just eaten some berries that are poison. And so it’s a good idea

⏹️ ▶️ John for you to puke those up. And the people who had that response had a slightly higher chance of passing on the genes

⏹️ ▶️ John than the people who didn’t. Therefore, we have a bunch of humans on the planet, pretty much all the humans on the planet, that if there

⏹️ ▶️ John is too big of a disconnect between what your inner ear feels, your accelerometers that are inside your head, and

⏹️ ▶️ John what your eyes see, your brain thinks something is terribly wrong and makes you puke.

⏹️ ▶️ John And that actually, it turns out, is a useful response as much as we hate it. And essentially,

⏹️ ▶️ John as far as I’m aware, everyone with a functioning inner ear gets motion sick is just a question of when. Astronauts get motion

⏹️ ▶️ John sick, the people on the deadliest catch get motion sick, everybody gets motion sick. But your threshold may be,

⏹️ ▶️ John I have to be, you know, on one of those crab boats in Alaska

⏹️ ▶️ John for me to get sick. Or you could be like me, where you go on a teacup ride at Disney World and you’re terribly

⏹️ ▶️ John sick. And that’s the other extreme, right? So the reason this is relevant to ProMotion is,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think I have trained my brain for my entire life that once motion starts happening

⏹️ ▶️ John in front of me, disconnect the visual system and just be like, don’t pay any attention

⏹️ ▶️ John to that motion, just wait for the motion to stop and then look again. And what that means to me with ProMotion is that

⏹️ ▶️ John when I flick and scroll, obviously no one is able to

⏹️ ▶️ John read it at 60 hertz because it gets too blurry, but my brain doesn’t even try. When I flick and scroll,

⏹️ ▶️ John my brain says, ignore the motion on the screen, just sort of disconnect, focus behind

⏹️ ▶️ John the phone. And it’s not a thing I consciously do, But I think I don’t even attempt to track the

⏹️ ▶️ John motion. It’s kind of why when, remember when iOS 7 first came out and it was the reduced motion because there was all those animations,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? When iOS 7 first came out, I had to have reduced motion on because when I did anything like close

⏹️ ▶️ John an app, open an app, swipe back to, or whatever the hell was, hit the home button, you know, those animations were

⏹️ ▶️ John so like, I don’t know, like they were so, they had such high fidelity. They

⏹️ ▶️ John would say, we’re gonna take what’s on the screen now and smoothly morph every single pixel of it to the new thing,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? and when you launch an app, it’s gonna zoom and become the screen and go back and my eyes would try to track

⏹️ ▶️ John those and it would make me feel sick because of course nothing, my inner ear feels nothing, I’m sitting still, but I see all

⏹️ ▶️ John this motion as if I’m zooming into or out of things. So I had to turn on reduce motion. Eventually,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, get the face ID phones or whatever, I found that I didn’t need to return reduce

⏹️ ▶️ John motion anymore because I had trained myself to not look at those animations, to say, yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ John when you do stuff on your phone, there’s gonna be animations, but just disconnect the visual system for those

⏹️ ▶️ John fractions of a second. Like don’t try to track it, don’t try to read what’s happening, don’t try to

⏹️ ▶️ John do anything to keep track of the motion at all. So on a phone with ProMotion,

⏹️ ▶️ John despite the fact that everything is much more smooth scrolling or whatever, if I don’t make a conscious effort to

⏹️ ▶️ John look at and track the motion, my brain says, well, 120 hertz means nothing to you

⏹️ ▶️ John because if anything’s moving on the screen, I’m not going to show that to you until it stops moving. And

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’s this strange experience where I essentially notice ProMotion

⏹️ ▶️ John if I’m trying to notice it, but if I’m not, it just goes completely into the background. So much

⏹️ ▶️ John so that if you had told me, like if you swapped out my 60 Hertz phone for 120 Hertz phone or vice versa,

⏹️ ▶️ John and didn’t tell me, I might not notice for days because I’m never looking at anything that’s in motion.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it’s really weird. And so I don’t know, maybe other people who get motion sick have the same

⏹️ ▶️ John thing, or maybe people, you know, You saw some YouTube videos of like, we showed the new iPhone to people and can they tell 120 Hertz

⏹️ ▶️ John at all? Do they notice it? Do they care? I think it does vary a lot from person to person. You watch

⏹️ ▶️ John terrible YouTube videos.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John The final point I’m gonna make, and this is related to the YouTube videos, is despite

⏹️ ▶️ John the fact that I said I disconnect my brain and don’t notice the motion, I do think every Apple device

⏹️ ▶️ John should be at least 120 Hertz. And that includes the Mac. Guess what?

⏹️ ▶️ John PCs have had a high refresh screen, support for high refresh screens forever. And Macs, I think, technically

⏹️ ▶️ John do too, if you get a third party monitor or whatever. But the fact is the Pro Display XDR that I’m staring at is 60 Hertz.

⏹️ ▶️ John And all of the Mac laptops, I believe, are 60 Hertz. And there’s no reason for that.

⏹️ ▶️ John If this little dinky phone can be 120 Hertz, the new MacBook Pro should be 120 Hertz with variable

⏹️ ▶️ John refresh rate, which will save them battery life too. So please, Apple, do that for us.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I mean, there are reasons, you know, that like, I hope they get there, but there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco are obviously technical challenges to this as well. Like, you know, most of those PC high refresh rate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco screens are not super high resolution and dense. And most of them are also probably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not having to, you know, fit 8K resolution over a Thunderbolt cable.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, no, I, you know, obviously the Prototix DR is the extreme example. Like, you’re not gonna do 120 Hertz at 6K. Sorry, 6K,

⏹️ ▶️ John yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, but like

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco for the laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ John like I feel like it’s, you know, compare the screen of the big

⏹️ ▶️ John iPad with ProMotion to most of Apple laptops. That is in striking

⏹️ ▶️ John distance. I feel like we’re on the cusp. Obviously the Macs get things much later. Macs don’t even have face ID. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John there is a time lag here, but it is within the realm of technical possibility. And I really hope they go down

⏹️ ▶️ John that path. Not just for gaming or things like that, but just because for the same reason, like I’m more likely

⏹️ ▶️ John to try to track a scroll thing if I’m like scrolling slowly on my Mac, then I am to try to read something

⏹️ ▶️ John while I’m scrolling on my phone just because everything’s bigger on my Mac. Like I make the font size bigger, like the text is bigger.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s conceivable that I can read text as it strolls, especially if it’s scrolling not too fast, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John So I hope the Macs get all those benefits. And then, you know, the battery saving benefits of

⏹️ ▶️ John the variable refresh rate. I have this to our long list of things that we feel like the Mac should have.

⏹️ ▶️ John And again, like technically speaking, you know, they’re all ARM, they’re using the same system on a chip. So whatever stuff they did to the system

⏹️ ▶️ John on a chip, They talked about this in all various interviews. Oh, we have the system-on-a-chip team work with the display team, and they all work

⏹️ ▶️ John together to make sure that this, right, great, that’s all the same crap that’s in the Mac now, right? So there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John more excuses that, oh, we couldn’t do with Intel or whatever. Please, please, Apple, high refresh rate Mac screens

⏹️ ▶️ John sometime in the next five years.


Chapter Cameras image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So let’s talk about cameras. I haven’t had a in-depth like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey deep dive into the cameras, so I can just tell you my initial experiences.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve played with macro mode a little bit. I really dig it. This is only going to take a second, then I’m happy

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for Marco for you to dive in on all of it. Macro mode I like. I’ve only briefly played with it. Same

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with cinematic thing with the, you know, the focus polling and all that. I played with it very briefly. Looks

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very cool. I’m not sure that either of these things are something I’m going to be doing a lot, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really dig that they’re part of the phone, particularly macro photography. I think that’s going to be really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The telephoto camera, my initial impression was I love the 3X.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey My current impression is I like the 3X. I’m not sure where I’m going to land on this, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I suspect I’m going to land back on I love the 3X in that I like having more zoom. But

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when I’m mostly around the house and mostly, you know, not really leaving the house. The 3X

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is not a do or die sort of thing, but my initial impression is I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would definitely choose 3 over 2 given the choice. Marco, take us on a deep

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dive of the camera stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I mean, look, I’m not a pro photographer, and I’ve only been shooting with this for, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco less than a week. So I can’t be incredibly thorough about it, but I can just say from the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point of view of somebody who’s fairly casual with it, it’s amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco These cameras are ridiculous. So, you know, again, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re coming from the 12 Pro Max, you know, last year’s Max phone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco had the sensor shift image stabilization and the larger sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco compared to the phones that preceded it and compared to the other 12 series phones. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re coming from the 12 Pro Max, this is going to be a smaller upgrade. It’s still going to be an upgrade because now you have, you know, that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensor shift thing on all the lenses and the sensor got even bigger and the lenses got even bigger

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and you have the macro, which I’ll get to in a second. So like, it’s a decent upgrade

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for 12 Pro Max users. It’s a substantially bigger upgrade for everyone else who was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the rest of the 12 series or any earlier phones. So having the larger sensor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and having the wider open lenses, like the more light gathering lenses,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s a pretty good difference. You know, it’s still not gonna compete with full frame and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco big, or even mirrorless cameras in terms of light gathering ability when paired with

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good big glass lens. Like it’s not gonna compete with that for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what it is capable of doing in ideal conditions and everything. But in the hands

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of an amateur and for something that’s always with you, it’s amazing. It’s ridiculously good. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will say on the 3x lens, I do appreciate the reach. However, my concerns about the 3x lens

⏹️ ▶️ Marco being only f2.8 and therefore having a lot less light gathering. And of course it has, you know, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco smaller sensor. It doesn’t have the big sensor of the 1x lens. So the combination of all that, the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 3x lens, yeah, the pictures are a lot more dull and noise processed.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I expected that. It’s not, this is not a low light lens. This is a daytime lens. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for the purposes of having all that reach in the daytime is great, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, at night, you’re not gonna wanna use that lens for anything or you know, indoors or in low light, it’s gonna be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco limited usefulness. But the 1X lens is really good. Like I posted

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this picture of hops that I just took like while sitting on a couch outside.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so it has good light and I used the 1X lens and I just was close because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco he was sitting next to my legs. It looks like a portrait mode picture, but the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hair is crisp and perfect because it’s not portrait mode. It’s just optics.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s just when you get close to your subject, even that like, you know, that relatively,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, modest, you know, F 1.5, I know F 1.5 means a lot for full frame. It doesn’t mean

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much when you’re, when you’re essentially the size of your pinky nail or whatever, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco F 1.5 wide open on the 1X lens without portrait mode looks fantastic.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If you can get close enough to your subject, you can get really good optical background blur without

⏹️ ▶️ Marco any tricks, and it looks good, and it doesn’t blur people’s ears or hair off. So it’s just, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco great. That I love. The macro I have found to be a lot of fun and a lot of usefulness

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too. Again, the macro is not using the best sensor. It’s using the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultra-wide. And the ultra-wide has a smaller sensor, not as good optics

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as the 1X camera. but for utility and for fun value, it’s great. And that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco another thing that, that’s a pretty good feature to have as a pro feature. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I were ever to think about going back to a smaller phone, macro is one thing I would miss.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You know, when I was first getting into photography, you know, back 15 or so years ago,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of the first lenses I bought was a macro lens because I rented one once and it was so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much fun. And I was like, I have to have one of these. And because macro lenses,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they’re just fun. If you’re looking for a fun, novel lens to get for your camera, rent

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a macro lens or buy a cheap one. And they’re not super easy to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use because macro photography, you need a ton of light.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like before the Zoom generation, the main buyers of ring lights

⏹️ ▶️ Marco were for macro photography. Because you just need a ton of light

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to capture stuff that close because you also, the way depth of field works,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you’re shooting, say you’re shooting at F2.8 or whatever, F2.8 for a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco subject that is an inch in front of you is gonna have a lot less

⏹️ ▶️ Marco depth in focus than a subject that’s 20 feet from you. The depth

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of your focus field, like how deep from you of a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco slice of the world is in focus, increases with distance. A macro lens, typically,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if you’re shooting on a real camera with a macro lens, if you’re shooting an insect, something very close

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up, if you want anything beyond one hair on that insect to be in focus,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’re probably shooting at like F12, F16, you’re really stepping it down because you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco dealing with such distances that you need, and you just need a ton of light. So super macro pictures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that you take with this lens, they’re gonna have all those same challenges. When you’re very, very close to your subject,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you need a ton of light and it needs to step it down a lot to get much of it in focus. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is again gonna be mostly an outdoor in sun kind of lens. You’re not gonna

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have great macro results indoors most of the time, but it’s still useful. It’s still good for like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, scanning QR codes or taking the picture of the back of your wireless modem to get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the tag on the back. Like it’s good for stuff like that. And that’s always gonna be a great utility.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But more importantly, the fun that I had when I first discovered macro lenses, now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco everyone’s getting that. because everyone who’s bought the 13 Pro is like, oh my God, look at this, here’s a picture

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of my eye really close or this bee in my backyard or whatever. And it’s just really cool. And so

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it’s great to be able to share the fun of macro lenses with more people.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But overall, I am just really impressed with this camera system. You know, it wasn’t bad before.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like by all means, I love the 12 mini camera system as much as everything else. But

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this one is even more versatile and it has even more features in terms

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of, I now have 3x reach, which is really nice sometimes, and I now have macro, which is really nice sometimes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Most importantly, to have the increased quality on the 1x lens, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot better. It’s not, again, it’s not gonna replace a big camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for how good it can be, but for the camera that I always have with me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that I’m taking 99.999% of my pictures with, It’s just great. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m very, very happy with it. And that is why I’m carrying this giant brick

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of a phone in my pocket.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can’t tell if this is an upgrade from the previous phones but my wife just took some video of my son

⏹️ ▶️ John running at a cross country meet today. And it was later in the

⏹️ ▶️ John day, like it was getting to be dark, right? I knew she was there and I suggested to her to take video.

⏹️ ▶️ John I had her change her video settings from whatever they were. I think she had them on like 1080p from who knows how long. But anyway, I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John like, you have a good phone now. It’s 4K 60, let’s go.

⏹️ ▶️ John And try out her new phone and check some video. But I saw what the light was like outside. I’m like, oh, it’s so dark.

⏹️ ▶️ John Nothing’s gonna come out. And then I saw the video she took and it reminds me of the first time I used

⏹️ ▶️ John one of Marco’s fancy cameras. I think it was the original A7R- It was the A7R II.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco R II, whenever I was over at your

⏹️ ▶️ John house for the overcast party, do you remember that? That was the A7R II. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John when you hand me that phone and like one of my kids was running through your kitchen and I just snapped a picture. And again, this is

⏹️ ▶️ John a camera with no flash on it, right? This is a picture in my experience with taking photos. Like this is a picture that is

⏹️ ▶️ John not going to come out because you’re inside. It’s like, you know, you’re in an indoor space. A kid is

⏹️ ▶️ John running by. It is not a sunny day, right? This isn’t going to come out. You’re going to get

⏹️ ▶️ John a blur of your kid because there’s just not enough light. And I just took a picture of my cushion and then I looked at

⏹️ ▶️ John it and I was like, the whole picture was in focus. And I was like, how is that possible?

⏹️ ▶️ John How did that camera, like it was just an auto. It was just, I pointed it, how is it possible that it was able, because it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John just got a giant sensor and it gathered all that light. And it reminded me of this thing that you say about the 5D

⏹️ ▶️ John Mark II as well, is like this camera can see better in the dark than my eyeballs can. Because

⏹️ ▶️ John if I look when someone’s running by like that, I don’t see that much light, but then I take a picture and it’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John did someone bring a lighting rig in here and shine it on my child so I could take this picture? because this picture

⏹️ ▶️ John is brighter than reality. Because in many cases, especially the old eyes, that sensor can

⏹️ ▶️ John gather more light than your eyeballs. I mean, my retina is not as big as a full frame sensor. I don’t know about you.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the video on this iPhone 13 Pro of my son running, it looked

⏹️ ▶️ John like they had brought in a lighting rig and like added extra light because

⏹️ ▶️ John this video looks so much brighter than the outdoors look to my

⏹️ ▶️ John eyes at the time that this event was taking place, right? Everything is so bright. Now, part of

⏹️ ▶️ John that is like the brightness boosting thing where it does the HDR and it adds the extra bright, but like,

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what to attribute this to. Is it the slightly larger sensor that is in this thing compared

⏹️ ▶️ John to the previous thing? But she has taken, and I’ve taken videos of my son running at various track meets before,

⏹️ ▶️ John and these videos look appreciably, noticeably brighter on a

⏹️ ▶️ John day that I know we were running at like, you know, I don’t know, 7 p.m. or something, and

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, approaching October in New England, right? It was like dark out. And this thing looks like

⏹️ ▶️ John night vision. It’s amazing. So I’ve been very impressed with the cameras. I did

⏹️ ▶️ John take some macro shots today. I did find the switch disconcerting. And also, I don’t know what this is attributable

⏹️ ▶️ John to, but when you switch into macro, the colors change too. I was taking pictures of flowers, cause you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John why not? Let’s take some macro photography of flowers. The color of the flowers in the picture

⏹️ ▶️ John would change. And I don’t like, is it just different quote unquote color signs, different processing

⏹️ ▶️ John is the other one. Like, is it less accurate because it’s starting to get blurry and then it snaps into focus? So I’m

⏹️ ▶️ John not sure what to attribute that to. I haven’t actually really dug into these pictures in detail, but but yeah, macro is definitely

⏹️ ▶️ John fun. And I enjoyed getting the phone really, really close to a bunch of plants and

⏹️ ▶️ John insects and other things, and I can’t wait to do more of that.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco To be clear, like unless unless your wife’s previous phone was the Max, which it wasn’t right. No, no,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it was like the 11 pro. Right? Yeah. So unless your previous phone was the 12 pro

⏹️ ▶️ Marco max, the sensor size increase is non-trivial. I believe I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the numbers for him, but I believe it’s something like twice the area as as the previous 1x camera was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco again with the exception of the 12 pro max, which was I think it’s only it quote only 50% more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the area of that one or something, but it’s a large increase in sensor size.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And again, we’re still not talking about full frame or anywhere close to even a micro four thirds sensor size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but with Apple’s processing and everything, it’s pretty great. And just as a relative

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point of comparison, it is a much larger sensor. That’s a pretty big increase. The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco lens is bigger, you get a lot more light coming in also, that also helps. One thing I noticed too,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m sitting here, I opened up this photo I was just talking about when I was referencing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the hops picture where I have the really good optical blur behind it. And it was taken

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the morning, and so there’s good sun out, and it’s like outside on my deck.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Viewing this picture on my Pro Display XDR, it’s an HDR picture, of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco course, as any modern iPhone shoots. It just looks, it looks like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have a window to the outside world right now. Like, it looks like all of the other,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quote, white backgrounded windows that are on my screen right now look like dirty dishwater compared

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to the bright sunlight that’s being shown in HDR in this little region of the screen over here that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this picture is showing. That’s another thing where, I know that you can get, you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can shoot and create HDR pictures with full-size cameras.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It just takes more work, more time, usually some processing, or at least much more

⏹️ ▶️ Marco talent than I have. And it’s just so amazing to be able to shoot HDR stuff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with the iPhone. And it’s one of those things you don’t quite appreciate when you start doing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it until once you notice like, oh wow, that sunset, when I look at that sunset picture

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the HDR fades in after a second, like wow, that looks really cool. And yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this camera is just so damn good for no effort whatsoever.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And this is why my usage of full-size cameras has really faded out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot over the last few years to where I’m basically not using them at all anymore. Tiff

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still uses them, but I’m really not. And I honestly don’t miss

⏹️ ▶️ Marco them. Because these pictures are, yeah, they’re not as megapixely

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as I can get with a big Sony or something. But again, just what you can get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco with no effort, with this thing that’s always in your pocket, even though it shifts around to the front of your pants and feels weird and is heavy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But other than that, these pictures are amazing. And the video, as you said, John,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco video is amazing too. I haven’t taken much of it yet, but I’ve, you know, with previous

⏹️ ▶️ Marco last few years of phones, I’ve been blown away by how good the video is with them too. And so I imagine it’s of course even

⏹️ ▶️ Marco better now, especially now that this is my first phone that can shoot HDR video, or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like this can shoot Dolby Vision now. The 12 mini couldn’t. So, oh, I’m just,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m so, I’m so looking forward to just spending more time with this camera and just taking more pictures of my everyday

⏹️ ▶️ Marco life with this, because it just looks so damn good. And just to have this in my pocket all the time

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is really something special. Yep, agreed. And you sure feel it. Oh gosh.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you to our sponsors this week, Linode, Memberful, and Backblaze. And thanks to our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco members who support us directly, you can join at slash join. We will talk to you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco next week.

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ John Now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin Cause it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental John didn’t do

⏹️ ▶️ John any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t let him Cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ John oh

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental And you can find the show notes

⏹️ ▶️ John at And if you’re into Twitter,

⏹️ ▶️ John you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So that’s Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and T. Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental, they didn’t mean to

⏹️ ▶️ John Accidental, check podcast so long

#askatp: Infinite-timescale features

Chapter #askatp: Infinite-timescale features image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, since we haven’t done ask ATP in a while We are running long obviously, but we thought we’d pluck out

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one and do it here in the post show

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco again So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Alex Merle writes On an infinite time scale. Do you expect the following

⏹️ ▶️ Casey three features to come to the iPhone? And if so, in what order do you expect them to arrive? under screen

⏹️ ▶️ Casey touch ID Underscreen selfie camera or underscreen speakers

⏹️ ▶️ Casey since we’re talking about infinite timescale John. Let’s start with you

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t we already have underscreen speakers?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey I know

⏹️ ▶️ John not the earpiece one, but I think don’t the screens, don’t the speakers shake the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John to some degree as part of the way they transmit sound?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco No, this is not some weird TV. This is, these are phones. No, they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John don’t do that.

⏹️ ▶️ John I’m saying practically speaking, I think. I’m gonna say

⏹️ ▶️ John under, underscreen speakers I think we might already have. I mean, obviously technically the speakers are

⏹️ ▶️ John beneath the screen physically speaking, but people think like, oh, but the sound, it’s moving the

⏹️ ▶️ John air through those little holes in the bottom of your phone, don’t you see? It’s not under the screen, but I do wonder if there is

⏹️ ▶️ John actual sound transmission up through the screen, simply because the screen is literally on top of the speakers,

⏹️ ▶️ John even though they are quote unquote firing sideways. So maybe I’m just gonna eliminate

⏹️ ▶️ John that one as saying, I’m not sure if we don’t already have that. The reason this is a good infinite time scale

⏹️ ▶️ John argument is like, you can pick any technology and be like, underscreen touch ID, underscreen selfie camera.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s like, well, of course we’ll have them eventually, but that’s not necessarily true. lots of technologies, like something else comes

⏹️ ▶️ John and replaces them. And so there is never a need to have them because it turns out during the whole time that that was a viable

⏹️ ▶️ John choice, Apple never did it. And then something way, way, way better came and we just never had that thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John So that’s what you have to think about for these things. And that’s why, you know, the infinite time scale doesn’t say, okay, we’ll definitely get to all

⏹️ ▶️ John these things. It could be that Face ID continues to

⏹️ ▶️ John evolve and be able to work with masks and, you know, see through clothing and scarves

⏹️ ▶️ John and ski goggles and just like get so good that it’s like, why would you ever need touch ID,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? The only use case would be like, I wanna unlock it without having it facing my face or whatever, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Or similar for underscreen selfie camera or whatever. But I think,

⏹️ ▶️ John I think there is a reasonable chance that no vastly superior replacement

⏹️ ▶️ John exists for these technologies within the timeframe that Apple would consider implementing them

⏹️ ▶️ John and also based on the rumors. So setting aside the speaker one,

⏹️ ▶️ John I expect a under screen touch ID to come before under screen selfie

⏹️ ▶️ John camera simply because, oh, face ID.

⏹️ ▶️ John Face ID needs a lot of crap that I think is harder to put under the screen than the camera, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John We’ve got this notch up there, the notch is shrinking but not going away. Um,

⏹️ ▶️ John assuming face ID still needs all that crap to some degree. Why are you going to stick the selfie

⏹️ ▶️ John camera under the screen? Doesn’t matter. You’re still going

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not slow down though. All we’re talking about is the camera. We’re not talking about the IR blaster,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? But like, why would you go through that? Why would you go through the hassle of sticking the selfie camera under the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John and all the potential compromises that involves when you got to have a notch anyway, for the IR sprayer or whatever

⏹️ ▶️ John the hell that for the face ID, you know what I mean? Like that’s why I think under screen touch ID will

⏹️ ▶️ John come first, if it comes at all. Now, all that said, I think there is a reasonable

⏹️ ▶️ John chance that unless Apple can get under screen touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ John to work acceptably with security remotely comparable to

⏹️ ▶️ John non under screen touch ID, you know, if Apple can’t do that, they’re just not gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John bring touch ID back to these phones because Apple seems happy with face ID. And obviously

⏹️ ▶️ John we know there are use cases where Touch ID is advantageous, but Apple’s not going to bother doing it at all

⏹️ ▶️ John if it can’t at least match the security and performance and so on and so forth and reliability

⏹️ ▶️ John of the previous Touch ID. I know tons of Android phones have underscreen Touch ID and everything like that, or underscreen fingerprint

⏹️ ▶️ John readers, whatever. But in general, those manufacturers seem to care a lot less about the actual security of those things,

⏹️ ▶️ John witness the various Android phones that used to be able to be fooled by like a printout of someone’s face or whatever, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John And so for Apple, I think there is a good chance that we never get under screen touch ID.

⏹️ ▶️ John And in terms of under screen sensors of any kind, Apple would love to put everything under the screen and have

⏹️ ▶️ John no notch or whatever. I’ve said this when the notch first came out, Apple does not want the notch. Apple is embracing it because

⏹️ ▶️ John they must. And they want the features that the notch provides, but have given a choice and say, what if you could have face

⏹️ ▶️ John ID, but no notch? Yes, that’s what Apple wants, right? They’re, you know, setting aside all the branding of like, oh, I

⏹️ ▶️ John can tell it’s an iPhone because when I see the outline I see the little notch or whatever. Apple surely would love everything

⏹️ ▶️ John under the screen, but so far, again, I don’t think there’s a zero compromises way to get

⏹️ ▶️ John a selfie camera. The only thing that’s in favor of the selfie camera is that Apple seems to care much, much less about

⏹️ ▶️ John the quality of the front facing camera than the back facing ones. I think we can all agree. And so maybe

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ll be more willing to compromise on the front facing camera just because they care

⏹️ ▶️ John less about it. So that’s my thing. I’m setting aside speakers, I think we kind of already have them by accident.

⏹️ ▶️ John Touch ID before selfie camera, but there’s a reasonable chance that you won’t ever see

⏹️ ▶️ John a touch ID on a phone again.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Under screen speakers, in the way Alex most likely means,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco where like there are no more holes on the top and bottom of the phone, that like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I assume it would like vibrate the glass or something, you know. With the exception of the Taptic Engine, which

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is basically a giant subwoofer, I don’t think we’re gonna have, you know, screen vibrating

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speaker technology in the phone. This technology does exist, it’s in certain large TVs,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but I don’t think the physics of making it work at a phone size,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco especially if something is as rigid as a modern iPhone, I don’t think that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would work well. It’s not to say you couldn’t make it make sound, but I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would have a lot of trouble having anywhere near an even frequency response.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it would probably have significant trouble with low frequencies, and because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you’d have to move the glass so much, like it would be very hard to generate that much energy.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I think it would end up being a very large and power intensive

⏹️ ▶️ Marco module in the phone to be able to do this, not to mention the fact that, are you gonna have two different

⏹️ ▶️ Marco speakers for stereo separation when you hold the phone in landscape like you have now? Like that to me just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seems, it seems like that’s not going to really be practical when

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you can just make tiny holes in the top and bottom edges of the phone, it’d be fine.

⏹️ ▶️ John I do wanna point out that on televisions, as you mentioned, lots of big TVs have this.

⏹️ ▶️ John On televisions, television manufacturers, obviously a different scenario, you have a way bigger piece of glass and you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John plugged into the wall, so your power constraints aren’t as big, but televisions have had impressively

⏹️ ▶️ John good sound quality using this exact technique with the giant canvas they have to work with.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you’re thinking like, oh, that’s gotta be a compromised sound. At TV scale, doesn’t have to be. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John not only can they get good stereo separation, because again, it’s a gigantic television, there’s literally feet between

⏹️ ▶️ John the sides of the television, good, you know, like, you know, frequency response, imaging,

⏹️ ▶️ John like, again, it’s built-in speakers, like don’t expect miracles, right? But as compared to the previous sort of

⏹️ ▶️ John traditional downward-facing drivers that bounce sound off of your, like, entertainment center or whatever, on,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, shaking the glass to make sound from your televisions has come really, really far. So if you

⏹️ ▶️ John think this sounds bogus, go and, you know, go find one of the fancy TVs that has it and listen to it. It’s pretty amazing.

⏹️ ▶️ John And the TVs are so big now that a lot of them have this feature, which I think is an anti feature, as I think I discussed

⏹️ ▶️ John before, where they will locate the sound to like the mouth of the person speaking

⏹️ ▶️ John on your giant 80 inch television or whatever. That’s how much control they have over shaking the glass.

⏹️ ▶️ John So it will sound like the sound is coming from the mouth of the person who’s speaking because they do image processing to

⏹️ ▶️ John identify the speaker and put the sound there. and then when the other person speaks, they have the sound come there.

⏹️ ▶️ John This would otherwise all just be center channel voice, right, but they locate it on the screen. So if you’re sitting

⏹️ ▶️ John really close to your 80 inch television that’s shaking the glass, you can hear different people speaking from the left and

⏹️ ▶️ John right of you, which is wacky. But yeah, I must agree with the market. When you get down to phone sizes and phone

⏹️ ▶️ John battery power envelopes, that becomes much more difficult. But I’d still maintain that that screen is shaking right now and it actually

⏹️ ▶️ John is contributing to the sound.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wonder also, like, you know, to achieve reasonable volume, would it start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to become unpleasant to hold because you’d be feeling more of the vibration in your hands as you’re holding it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think there’s multiple reasons why that kind of thing would not work well for a phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But anyway, so I’m gonna say under-screen speakers, I’m gonna say never. Under-screen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco selfie camera, I’m also gonna say never. It’s not that I don’t think the tech

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can or will exist, but when you’re dealing with cameras, you have to worry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about, you know, cameras in this case, cameras for the purposes of capturing images, like for people to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco view and share and stuff, there’d be some degree of light loss, I would expect from having to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shoot through a screen that you probably wouldn’t wanna make that decision for a camera, unless that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was going to be the only thing, like if that would allow you to get rid of the notch completely, if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that was the only camera there, you know, I was almost saying that there’s more things there though, like there’s, you have multiple

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sensors and blasters and stuff in that notch area. And so it would only

⏹️ ▶️ Marco make sense to lose that much light from the selfie camera and therefore make it take worse pictures.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco If that was the last thing. And I just, I don’t think we’re going to be there anytime soon, if ever. So,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so I’m going to say under screen selfie camera, probably also never. And that leaves under screen touch ID.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I do think that under screen touch ID is probably possible. We’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco probably not even that far from it being practical to do touch. Touch ID does not need the camera

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to be as precise or as sensitive to light as the selfie

⏹️ ▶️ Marco camera does. So if you’re talking about, well, can you shoot through a screen and spare a bit of light?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Touch ID can, you know, because it works in a different way. It doesn’t, you know. It’s not that it’s not a camera. It’s not gathering light,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right? I believe it was capacitive, but I don’t know. Anyway, whatever you’d be losing,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like detail-wise or resolution-wise or whatever, strength-wise from going through the screen,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Touch ID can probably tolerate it long before a camera can. So, I’m gonna say that’s actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be very possible, possibly even soon, but then the only question is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco will Apple actually find it valuable enough to do? You know, I’m sure there

⏹️ ▶️ Marco would be some compromises, as John was saying, like with security and things like that. On the other hand, there is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco an alternative. You know, there’s the power button Touch ID thing that the iPads are using. So that’s an

⏹️ ▶️ Marco option they could put in the phone. But there’s also huge demand for them to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco use Touch ID on the phone. And I think the people who demand Touch ID, who like the phones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the way they used to be and don’t want to move to Face ID still, I think to please those people, you’d probably have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do under screen as opposed to a power button Touch ID feature.

⏹️ ▶️ John Do you think there’s huge demand? Because I remember the senior citizen contingent for whom Touch ID doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John work because they have old people fingerprints. I feel like that is a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey large

⏹️ ▶️ John constituency making Touch ID continue to not be viable. and masks are a big motivator

⏹️ ▶️ John for Touch ID, but then you got watch unlock, but not everyone has an Apple watch. I think demand is definitely there.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t necessarily think there have to be security compromises. I just think the feature won’t be attractive to

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple unless they can reasonably match the performance of the previous one. Because imagine

⏹️ ▶️ John they come out with the underscreen Touch ID and already they basically said Face ID has better security than Touch ID because

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s more points of data or whatever. I remember that whole pitch when they first came out with Touch ID

⏹️ ▶️ John and that continues to be true. And so reintroducing Touch ID will be necessarily

⏹️ ▶️ John a step backward in security, but you don’t want it to be a step backwards past even the old Touch ID. So

⏹️ ▶️ John we have to get an underscreen Touch ID that is in the ballpark of the old Touch ID, at least before Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John will even consider it. And then even then, you get the old people finger problem. So power button Touch

⏹️ ▶️ John ID, underscreen Touch ID, any kind of Touch ID, I feel like Face ID is,

⏹️ ▶️ John despite some people who still want it, I think Face ID is, if you had to pick one, You know,

⏹️ ▶️ John all iPhones could have one of these two, but only one. Face ID is the one to have. It is the most,

⏹️ ▶️ John it serves the needs of the most people the best, which is why, you know, why no iPhones have Touch ID.

⏹️ ▶️ John Obviously both is better than just one, but I do wonder how big the demand

⏹️ ▶️ John is. Like once everyone finally upgrades to a Touch ID phone, I’ve heard a lot of, you know, from my own kids, like I don’t want,

⏹️ ▶️ John I want the one with the home button. I don’t want the Face ID. That seems weird to me. You don’t hear it again after two months. Again,

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re young people or whatever, but once everyone gets used to Face ID, I wonder how much

⏹️ ▶️ John demand that will be left for Touch ID.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I don’t know. I think with masking and with not everyone wearing an Apple Watch, I think there is certainly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a renewed demand for Touch ID. But the more I listen to the two of you and the more I think about it,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the more I think the under-screen selfie camera on an infinite time scale,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey sure, but realistically, no. Under-screen Touch ID, I agree with what Marco said a minute ago. Like, I think Apple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey would go a different direction, like the power, or the lock button, rather than going under screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I don’t think they would do it. Under screen speakers, I think are the most probable, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even still, I’m skeptical. The only reason I can see, or that I can think of that I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey think Apple would be really interested in this, is perhaps improved water resistance, but that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey doesn’t seem to be a problem now. So I don’t know what that really buys you. So honestly, I don’t really see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey any of these happening. I mean, sure, on an infinite timescale, but realistically, I don’t see any of them happening.

⏹️ ▶️ John But not necessarily, like I said, not necessarily an infinite time scale, because like sometimes technology just passes by these things and

⏹️ ▶️ John they become anachronisms and we have better things to do equivalent jobs, like arguably Touch ID could already

⏹️ ▶️ John find itself in that situation. So-

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Yeah, yeah, this is what you were saying earlier. Yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ John So like, I, you know, just, you know, if you’re waiting around for one of these, it just be

⏹️ ▶️ John resigned to the fact that it may never happen, but it won’t matter because the reason it won’t happen because there literally is something better.