Unofficial Accidental Tech Podcast transcripts (generated by computer, so expect errors).

271: Voting With Your Virtual Feet

Bitcode, backpacks, untouchable screens, and bringing the iPhone X into our office for a little chat. Please close the door behind you.

Episode Description:

Sponsored by:

  • Eero: Finally, Wi-Fi, that works. Use code ATP for free overnight shipping to the US and Canada.
  • Linode: Fast SSD cloud servers starting at just $5/month. Use code atp2018 for a $20 credit.
  • RXBAR: Whole food protein bars made with 100% real ingredients. Use code ATP for 25% off your first order.

MP3 Header

Transcribed using Whisper large_v2 (transcription) + WAV2VEC2_ASR_LARGE_LV60K_960H (alignment) + Pyannote (speaker diaritization).


  1. ATP Store 🖼️
  2. Sponsor: Linode (code ATP2018)
  3. Can Bitcode go x86-to-ARM?
  4. Follow-up: Backpacks
  5. Follow-up: Facebook groups
  6. Sponsor: RXBAR (code ATP)
  8. iPhone X user survey
  9. iPhone X performance review
  10. Sponsor: Eero (code ATP)
  11. Dark mode in WebKit
  12. #askatp: Why remove 32-bit?
  13. #askatp: Destiny nonsense
  14. #askatp: Wrangler or what?
  15. Ending theme
  16. Post-show: Moving violations

ATP Store

Chapter ATP Store image.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey We can’t start for eight more minutes.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Why? Is there some kind of sporting game on?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No. I don’t know if you can hear this. Hold on.

⏹️ ▶️ John Is that the rain? Or the wind?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, that’s my iMac screaming.

⏹️ ▶️ John It was raining here and I was wondering if it was going to keep

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey up. It was

⏹️ ▶️ Casey raining earlier. It’s actually gorgeous now, but it was raining earlier.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Actually, all this time, Casey’s iMac just doesn’t work in the rain and he just never thought to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey mention

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey Yeah, yeah, yeah.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This here, this is the little plastic sheathing,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you will, for an ATP pin. I have to say it looks magnificent.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Uh, I am quite excited about these pins. I actually have not yet opened one. Let me,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh, you should open it. I might arrive today and I opened one and it is, they are really nice.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey This, this is, this is excellent work. It has a nice, uh, soft little like, uh, a stabby

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing cap.

⏹️ ▶️ John Stabby thing is a technical term for

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey yeah Another word

⏹️ ▶️ John for the thing that’s on the back of what are they called again?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Probably a post would be a guess a backing Yeah, but anyway, so the little

⏹️ ▶️ Casey thing that protects the post is very nice very soft It is it is quite nice this pin

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and you know I highly suggest listeners if you’d like to throw a few bucks our way you should pick one up

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and Marco wanted to tell us about where you can get these pins among many other things which I will also talk about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about. So you can go to slash shirt for our usual URL or you can go to our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new URL slash store

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John and the reason why it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco store is that this year we have zero new designs but like five

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new products.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So with that in mind I now have that’s me hitting the brim of my baseball

⏹️ ▶️ Casey cap onto the microphone this is is an embroidered ATP. What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the official name for the grayish color? It’s like charcoal coal, coal, something.

⏹️ ▶️ John **Matt

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Stauffer** Space gray. Jeff Lackmann Space gray. Yeah, it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey definitely space gray. How could I be so wrong? It is a space gray embroidered ATP hat.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am quite into it. It looks quite good. I also have with me, and I am playing with it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey now, but it’s not making very much noise, an ATP embroidered Zipped

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hoodie. Now I am quite excited about this. I don’t really wear hoodies.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Like the hood to me is kind of redundant, but I know a lot of people are useless, maybe I know a lot of people that love the hood part

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the hoodie, however, my word, the inside of this thing is made of magic. It

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is extremely soft. It is thin, but thick enough that it will provide warmth.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, it’s not one of those scenarios where it’s like a piece of like, you know, tissue paper that you’re wrapping

⏹️ ▶️ Casey yourself with it’s thick enough that it’s got some heft to it, but it’s still very light

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and casual. And I have to say this thing is quite nice, but perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ Casey more importantly than anything else I have, you can’t hear this either. I have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey an ATP embroidered polo. Finally, it is, it is a real thing. I had gotten

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a pre-release version of this like a year ago. I might’ve accidentally lost it like a week ago. I really honestly don’t know where

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it is. It’s somewhere in the house. I can’t find it. But anyway, uh, I have a brand new ATP polo

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it’s made out of, what is this like Nike dry fit or something like that it’s it’s yeah, Nike

⏹️ ▶️ Casey dry fit. It reminds me a little bit of under armor, which sounds like a bad thing because under armors marketing is like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey really. Bro. But it’s actually quite nice. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am very excited because I still at this moment anyway, have a jobby job and I wear collared shirts to my

⏹️ ▶️ Casey jobby job and I am excited to have a polo. So listeners, if you have a jobby job where you can wear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a polo, if you just like collars, if you want to pop a collar, then please don’t. But if you have to,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if you’re going to pop a collar at all, at least do it in an ATP shirt.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John You

⏹️ ▶️ John should buy two of these shirts so you can have two collars inside

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of you. You know what, John? I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like where your head’s at. That is a great idea. It’s going to appear in a WWDC keynote. That is a fantastic

⏹️ ▶️ Casey idea. And if no other reason, you should buy this polo shirt because I fought tooth

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and nail with Marco particularly to get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco the polos

⏹️ ▶️ Casey offered and I need some amount of vindication on this issue. So please,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey buy a polo if you don’t mind. Or buy anything really. The pins, buy all the things really is what we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Casey trying to say. Buy all the things because it’d be great. And they’re all really great and really high quality.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Go to slash store and buy some stuff.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and you have to do it soon if you want it. Everything except the pin, all the clothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco items are all being pre-sold and then at the end they print it and ship it just like a lot of these t-shirt campaigns

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that people like us do. The date that you have to order by for all the clothing items is May

⏹️ ▶️ Marco 7th at 8pm Eastern. Hurry up, that’s coming up fast. If you want the clothing

⏹️ ▶️ Marco items, hurry up. If you want the pins, they don’t work that way. The pins ship pretty much immediately, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s a fixed number of them that exist and I will tell you that this is the first time we’re promoting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it on the show. we only announced it on Twitter a few days ago, we’ve already sold about a third of the pins. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want pins, really hurry up, because I have a feeling they’re gonna sell out within not that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco much time after this episode airs, maybe by next week, but you know, it’s not gonna be, you’re not gonna have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a lot of time on the pins. And again, if you want those clothing items, order those by May 7th. So otherwise,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, we are really excited about this. I was very disappointed, honestly, last year in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the quality of products that we got out of Teespring. And because of that, we agreed

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not to use Teespring anymore. And we were gonna go back to Cotton Bureau anyway, but then they approached

⏹️ ▶️ Marco us with this amazing proposal for making a whole storefront with multiple items,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco many of which are things that not just anybody can go to them and print things like pins and embroidery

⏹️ ▶️ Marco items and stuff like that. And they are so good, they’re so nice, that we’re just

⏹️ ▶️ Marco really happy working with them again. And their stuff is top-notch quality, and we’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very happy that they now have much more affordable shipping outside of the US.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We should also clarify that the designs of all of this are based

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the rainbow ATP logo from two years ago.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We tried some new designs for this year. We couldn’t come up with anything that was that very good in time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and everybody has been begging us since this campaign ended in mid-2016,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Everyone loved the design. Everybody wanted more. And last year we had a great design too, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think I have no regrets going back to this design for this year.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the storefront is actually going to remain open indefinitely.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We might add more stuff over time. If maybe not waiting until WBDC next year, maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’ll do it a little bit more ahead of time, or maybe we’ll do something in the fall, who knows. But the storefront will

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of be an indefinite thing with products coming in and out at different times. But right now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you want the rainbow logo, clothing items, or pins, go now, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco your time is limited on those. And yeah, we’ll see what happens.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And as a final addendum, I cannot tell you the amount of times I’ve heard

⏹️ ▶️ Casey somebody say to me via Twitter or whatever, oh, I just missed it, I kept meaning to do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it, and I never did it, and now I can’t have that anymore. Don’t wait, don’t wait, Just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey give us your friggin’ money. I mean, buy yourself a beautiful piece of ATP artwork and a shirt,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do what you can right now before you forget because you will be kicking yourself if you forget,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and especially if you’re interested in the pins. We will probably eventually one day do

⏹️ ▶️ Casey another run of these pins, eventually.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we’re definitely gonna do more pins. The only question is when and which ones.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, we’re not sure when. And just like Marco said, we’ll call attention to it probably when

⏹️ ▶️ Casey other things appear in the store, But hey, maybe set every couple of months reminder in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey DUE to check out slash store because we might put something else up. In fact,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey we’ve already got a couple of other things in the works as we speak that we will probably be doing

⏹️ ▶️ Casey later. You

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John just

⏹️ ▶️ John Osborne-ed all our merch, stop. Cut that out. What

⏹️ ▶️ Casey do you mean I Osborne-ed? What the hell does that even mean?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco You don’t, oh, come on. You’ll look it up on Wikipedia later. In case you didn’t see that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John movie. Even Marco’s seen that one.

⏹️ ▶️ John One final, final bit. The Rainbow ATP logo merch is very popular.

⏹️ ▶️ John We offered it in 2016. People kept asking us to bring it out, but I believe that we actually

⏹️ ▶️ John sold more of my T-shirt design last year. Just saying. Mm hmm.

⏹️ ▶️ John Oh, two more quick angles on merchandise. One when I was browsing the Cotton Bureau site, they saw

⏹️ ▶️ John a whole bunch of stuff and like at the bottom, they show like the popular items and our stuff was down there. But also Also

⏹️ ▶️ John MKBHD shirt was down there and I’m like, huh, he’s got one day left on his campaign. He’s only

⏹️ ▶️ John sold like 500 shirts. We can beat that. So I really want to sell more shirts than his bazillion

⏹️ ▶️ John subscriber YouTube channel. So let’s all go do that and win one for podcasting. And the second thing is

⏹️ ▶️ John people have also been asking about stickers. We do not have stickers for sale. But

⏹️ ▶️ John if you are at WWDC and you find one of us, chances are good that if you want a sticker,

⏹️ ▶️ John we will give you one for free.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That is accurate.

⏹️ ▶️ John I know it’s bad if you’re not a WWDC and we may look into selling stickers someday, somehow, someway. They’re

⏹️ ▶️ John not available now, but if you are lucky enough to be in San Jose with us, not even at WWDC, but in San

⏹️ ▶️ John Jose, and you find one of us, and you want one of the stickers that we might have, will just give you one.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco We are sponsored this week by Linode. Go to slash ATP

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to learn more. Linode is my favorite web host. I have been there I think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about eight years now. I have all of my stuff hosted there and the reason why is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that it’s just better than everything else I’ve tried. Not only is it a better value, you know, their plans started

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just one gig of RAM for just five dollars a month. That’s a really good price and if you look at their

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pricing for all their plans and they have high memory plans, every time I’ve checked they are either the best game in town

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or they’re tied with the best game in town. They’re an incredible value for what you get. All of this is running on enterprise

⏹️ ▶️ Marco grade SSDs, Xeon E5 CPUs, 40 gigabit network backing it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They have all sorts of great features like load balancing, they have an API to automate the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco creation and resizing and things like that of new instances. It’s incredibly nice to be

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a Linode customer because you just have so much available to you at such good pricing.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco You can even try stuff out with hourly billing. They have 24-7 friendly support if you ever need it. Phone support

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is also available. You can run Docker containers, you can run encrypted disks, you can run VPNs,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or you can be boring and just run a PHP MySQL web app like I do. Check out Linode today and if

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you use, if you go to slash ATP, or if you use promo code

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ATP2018, you will get a $20 credit. If you choose the base plan,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the one gig plan, that’s four months, that’s five bucks a month.

Can Bitcode go x86-to-ARM?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So it’s great. Check it out today. slash ATP. And if they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco actually hiring, if you’re looking for a job, slash careers. Thank you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so much to Linode for sponsoring our show.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Listener Casey asks, who definitely, definitely, definitely is not me. Definitely not me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Hey, would Bitcode make an Intel to ARM transition easier? The reason I ask

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is, I mean, the reason that other case he asks is his or my or somebody’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey understanding of bitcode is that basically what Apple eventually gets

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the iTunes store or Mac App Store is kind of like an intermediate language,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of an IL version of your code. So it’s been quasi-compiled, but it’s recompilable.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That’s probably not a word, but you get what I’m trying to say. Apple can recompile it to take advantage

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of, you know, new instructions on processors and things of that nature. So would that be

⏹️ ▶️ Casey enough to make an Intel to ARM transition easier?

⏹️ ▶️ John So I I’m like, didn’t we already talk about this in a TV? And then I remembered, we talked about it

⏹️ ▶️ John with Chris Latner, the creator of LVM and someone who knows a little something about bitcode and bytecode.

⏹️ ▶️ John And also, luckily, this is one of the rare, the only episode I think that we actually transcribed.

⏹️ ▶️ John So we’ll put a link in the show notes to the section of our interview with Chris Latner, where we talk about

⏹️ ▶️ John bitcode. And we talked about some of these same issues like would this, you know, what is bitcode for? How is it different

⏹️ ▶️ John than bytecode? Does it help with portability? So I would encourage everyone to review that because we don’t want to rehash

⏹️ ▶️ John it all here. But my short answer is that it doesn’t help as much as you might think, because

⏹️ ▶️ John bitcode is not a completely architecture agnostic

⏹️ ▶️ John representation. It is not the same as machine code, like it is more independent than that. that’s the whole point of it to be able to,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, like they give, uh, I think Chris gives an example about like, if you’re, if you’re running bit code and compiling it down to machine code

⏹️ ▶️ John for a processor that doesn’t have a particular kind of divide instruction, but then later you get a new processor

⏹️ ▶️ John and a new iPhone that has that divide instruction, they can then convert the bit code to different machine

⏹️ ▶️ John code. So there is some portability there, but in terms of, oh, bit code is completely architecture agnostic

⏹️ ▶️ John and you can compile it down to anything. It’s not like, uh, you know, it’s not, there’s no virtual machine specification

⏹️ ▶️ John like there is with the JVM and Java bytecode and stuff like that. It’s, you know, it’s more

⏹️ ▶️ John independent than hardware, but not as independent as we’ve defined a virtual machine, like

⏹️ ▶️ John the JVM. And this is the bytecode for the virtual machine. And then that’s the model that you

⏹️ ▶️ John program against. And then that virtual machine runs on actual hardware. That’s not the way bitcode works. So I

⏹️ ▶️ John mean, is it a factor? You know, bitcode isn’t set in stone, just like the thing that preceded a bytecode

⏹️ ▶️ John wasn’t set in stone. So there could be a successor to bitcode that really does help a lot with some kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of transition if there’s some, especially if there’s some kind of translation layer, if they change architectures, but bitcode

⏹️ ▶️ John as it exists now, I don’t think is so enough help that it would

⏹️ ▶️ John make a significant difference. Only perhaps that it gives Apple a leg up on, oh, we really do want to make a translation

⏹️ ▶️ John layer. So we’ll make the successor to bitcode. And so we have that experience with both bytecode and bitcode for LVM I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John know, bitcode 2 or something, and that would help.

Follow-up: Backpacks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have some follow-up about backpacks much too

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hate to announce this I’m really sorry Casey I had to return the Tom bin what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco why as we discussed last week I got the Tom bin synapse 25 and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going against my peak design everyday 20 liter backpack I was I was hoping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Tom bin would store more stuff and have things more externally accessible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the Peak design. My main problems with the Peak are that it didn’t hold

⏹️ ▶️ Marco enough and that I didn’t like the design of the side pockets, making everything a little hard to get to, and the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco laptop compartment was a little bit tight, and all the organization was kind of internal to the bag instead of external.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I got the Tombin 25 and last week I raved about how awesome it seemed, but I hadn’t actually traveled with it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yet or really used it outside of the house even. I had just like you know played with it in my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco office for a couple hours and one thing I didn’t do at the time of last week’s recording

⏹️ ▶️ Marco was load it up with a lot of stuff and put it on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and when I tried that I could not make it comfortable like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it just felt really wrong on me and so I’m guessing the Synapse 25 is just you know not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a good fit for my particular I don’t know size in shape, my back, whatever

⏹️ ▶️ Marco else, the curvature of it in the lumbar area of your back just didn’t,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I couldn’t find a way to make that sit no matter how I packed it. And I know people are probably going to write it and say, oh, I packed it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco wrong or I should try this or that. And I tried a lot of different ways of packing it and different things

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in the back and different weight distributions and everything. And I just could not find anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that made it feel right and feel comfortable on me. And then I took the exact same test

⏹️ ▶️ Marco load of stuff that I was packing it with and put it in the peak and the very first try

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it felt perfect. So unfortunately, it just doesn’t fit me. Like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in its physical design, I had problems with the feel of the lumbar area as well as

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just the way the straps distributed the weight on my shoulders. I felt like the weight was too high

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and it didn’t feel right. I tried as many adjustments

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and rearrangements as I could, and I just couldn’t get it to work for me. So I sent that back. Unfortunately,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they do have a very generous return policy that you know something doesn’t work out. You can send it back if as long as you haven’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like you know taking it on a hike and worn it outside and stuff like that. So I appreciate that and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I hope to check them out again in the future, but it just didn’t fit me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like physically and meanwhile the peak like I didn’t have to jump through any hoops. I just put it on and it fit perfectly.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So my current backpack plan… Backpacks to me are like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to-do apps and email apps for Mike. I’m always at most 60%

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or 70% satisfied with one and always keeping an eye out for others. But I don’t buy them very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco often because they’re expensive and it’s kind of a pain.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So my current stance is I’m back on the peak. There’s a lot about the peak I do really like, so I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just going to stick with it for a while just deal with the fact that it doesn’t hold that much. And on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco trips, just, you know, get reaccustomed to the idea that I’m just going to be bringing a little, a small, you know, rolling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco suitcase for the overhead bin, in addition to a backpack. So, that’s where I am on backpacks.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin I’m sorry to hear that. So, in terms of like quality and things of that nature, it sounds like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the Tombin was fine. It’s just the ergonomics against your, your, you know, that particular

⏹️ ▶️ Casey bag against your particular body, just it wasn’t compatible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco As far as I can tell, yes. I mean, I don’t want to go through a big parade of returns with them trying

⏹️ ▶️ Marco out all their other bags.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Totally.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just going to kind of hold off and maybe if I ever visit Seattle, I’ll visit their store but for now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m happier enough with the Peak. It’s funny, actually, the Peak does actually work significantly better

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than the Tombin in one major way for the way I happen to use a bag, which is the vast majority

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the time, my backpack is sitting next to my desk on the floor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the laptop is in it and the power cable that keeps laptop charged is kind of like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco floating out through the top of the bag like with the laptop compartment open. So it’s always kind of it’s always plugged in but ready to go.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And the Tom Bihn bags they can’t stand up by themselves. The Peak does

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because it’s so much bigger and it’s so much bulkier fabric and it’s more rigid fabric whereas the Tom Bihn is more like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco just like a floppy bag basically and you can buy a frame for it but that makes it weird in ways that I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I didn’t want. So the Peak actually works significantly better the way my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco backpack is actually used most of the time, which is standing up on the floor next to my desk, where the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tom Binges would constantly flop over. So I guess it’s good for that. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ultimately, the Peak is not bad. I really do enjoy a lot about it. It’s a really nice bag.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I wish it held more. And there is a 30 liter version of the Peak, but

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by all accounts, the 30 liter is way too big by what most people say for

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what I’m going for, which is fitting under an airline seat no matter what. Because one thing that drives me nuts, and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this is kind of the reason why I’m sticking with the 20 I think, when I travel,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I always want my backpack under the seat in front of me on a plane. Always. There is never a situation where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I want to put the backpack in the overhead bin. And I hate like I always when I’m booking seats, I always go to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seat guru and I check the plane not to see like you know that I’m getting a seat that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not next to a bathroom or anything. I mainly am checking the seat I’m booking to make sure I have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco storage under the seat in front of me because on a lot of planes now and a lot of types of seats,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know you either have like a bulkhead in front of you or a galley or the seat

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or you have like those big computer boxes under the seats that take up half the space so you can’t actually fit anything

⏹️ ▶️ Marco under there. So it’s really hard to know without checking something like Seek Uber whether you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have anywhere to put something under the seat. And I don’t want to keep going up and down to the overhead compartment to like get

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff out during a long flight. So I always want something that can fit under the seat. And so almost every bag

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that can hold more than the peak 20 liter, if you actually put more in it, you start

⏹️ ▶️ Marco increasing the risk that it’s not going to fit under the seat in front of you. So that’s yet another reason why I think I’m, I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think I’m coming to the conclusion that one backpack travel is probably not something

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I actually want, because if I actually achieve one backpack travel

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for almost any trip, the backpack is going to have to be too big for me to reliably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco fit it under the seat in front of me on those flights. So I think I’m going to again just go back to having a small

⏹️ ▶️ Marco roller roller bag in the overhead bin and a small to medium sized backpack

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for under the seat.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Fair enough. That’s a bummer. I’m sad that Tom Bidden didn’t work out, but I still wholeheartedly

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and enthusiastically endorse it. So that’s okay.

⏹️ ▶️ John The other thing that’s imposing size constraints besides the underneath of the airline seat perhaps

⏹️ ▶️ John to Marco’s comfort with backpacks is his back. So you got the smaller backpack and it doesn’t quite

⏹️ ▶️ John hold your stuff, but maybe it fits your back better than a big one would. And so that if you got any big backpack, that

⏹️ ▶️ John no matter how well it fit under a seat or not, it might just not feel comfortable on you.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey true.

Follow-up: Facebook groups

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Alright, tell us about your Facebook problems.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So as we discussed, I believe it was last episode, I still had a Facebook account, which I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco never really used for much of anything. I hardly ever really posted anything ever. But the main

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reason I was using it was for membership in a couple of private groups.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I didn’t want to lose that because it provided access to things like my beach town that I love so much

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and like local school stuff and everything else. And in the meantime, I discovered something wonderful.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I discovered that the school group is useless because I actually like looked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco at it like have I ever gotten any value out of this and the answer was no and the beach group I discovered

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s also a bunch of beach people on Instagram from the same town that post a lot of pictures and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco stuff and I realized that what I mostly wanted out of that group was pictures of what’s going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on in town while I’m not there and Instagram provides that without any of the angry

⏹️ ▶️ Marco old people that are complaining about whatever happened at the latest meeting with the village trustees

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the mayor and all that crap. I mean God, anybody out there who works

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in local government, I thank you. I thank you for your service.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The ** storm that local government tends to be, I can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco imagine dealing with that every day. Because like if you’ve ever been like part of a Facebook group

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that has your local town stuff in it or if you’ve ever gone to a meeting like a variance

⏹️ ▶️ Marco meeting or any kind of like town you know or village government meeting, it’s like Parks and Rec. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the people are that bad. Anybody who works local government, these jobs are oftentimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco either unpaid or part-time, very low-paid jobs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They are completely thankless jobs and they are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco incredibly important for making things work functionally in our society and making things nice

⏹️ ▶️ Marco in our neighborhoods. And all I ever see on Facebook groups and in these meetings

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is bitter angry people just throwing complaints at

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the local government people and asking for the impossible and not understanding

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like actual constraints and actual factors that went into things. So anybody who works out

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there in local government I applaud you and I thank you and I could never ever do that and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I very much respect your ability to do that. Anyway so I realized that the the Facebook

⏹️ ▶️ Marco group for the Beach Town was pretty much 90% those complaints

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and 10% pretty pictures that I wanted to see and Instagram is a hundred percent pretty pictures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I want to see and none of the complaints from the old people. So I just left

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the group and deleted my account and it’s just done. I’m just following things on Instagram now

⏹️ ▶️ Marco which I yes I know is owned by Facebook so the kind of you know takes a lot of the wind out of the sails of why I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco leaving Facebook but Otherwise, you know, I’m out and I’m happy that I’m out

⏹️ ▶️ John since everyone’s been talking about Facebook, I guess, because of the Cambridge Analytica thing and stuff on various podcasts I’ve been listening

⏹️ ▶️ John to. Everyone has had that section of the podcast that we’ve had now on two or three podcasts in a row, which is like

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t like Facebook, but I like Instagram. And yes, I know Instagram is owned by Facebook. So blah, blah, blah. Right. But

⏹️ ▶️ John the more I keep hearing that, the more I think, yeah, so it’s not great that it’s owned by Facebook,

⏹️ ▶️ John but by voting with your feet or whatever, voting with your virtual feet, you are sending

⏹️ ▶️ John the signal that I don’t like how Facebook works. I like how Instagram works. Now Instagram

⏹️ ▶️ John can change because owned by Facebook, it could start working in different ways. It already has with the stupid algorithmic timeline or whatever, right?

⏹️ ▶️ John But that I think is just as strong a signals like, well, you’re not really sending any signal if you just delete

⏹️ ▶️ John your Facebook account, but just use Instagram. It’s also on my Facebook. Yes, you’re sending in this case, you’re sending Facebook the signal

⏹️ ▶️ John Facebook bad Instagram good, more like Instagram, less like Facebook. And of course, if

⏹️ ▶️ John Facebook changes Instagram into Facebook, then you probably leave that too, right? But this it’s still a signal

⏹️ ▶️ John even though it’s going to the same company. If your goal is to the downfall of Facebook, I think you’re going to have to wait for the generational

⏹️ ▶️ John turnover to to bite them in the butt when the kids that are growing up now who

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t want Facebook account don’t get one. But like I don’t think the goal is tear

⏹️ ▶️ John down as a revenge fantasy. The goal is stop making, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John make things like Facebook less the fewer things like Facebook, more things like Instagram. And so that’s the signal

⏹️ ▶️ John you’re sending. So I don’t, you know, if anyone gives you crap about that or says, well, it’s pointless because you’re going to

⏹️ ▶️ John Instagram because they’re owned by Facebook. I don’t totally agree with that. I see where they’re coming from, but I think it’s still a,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s a good move.

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Chapter NOT A TOUCH SCREEN image.

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⏹️ ▶️ Casey John you uh you need to tell me about something you need to tell me what is not a touchscreen

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey It

⏹️ ▶️ John was like a school vacation week last week, and I was away

⏹️ ▶️ John Visiting family seeing all the sites to be seen in a different state and one

⏹️ ▶️ John of the week I had time to go to the movies which is a rarity and one of the things I noticed that the movie theater was going to is

⏹️ ▶️ John an AMC and we go to a local AMC too but it was like a we had to buy tickets there because they MC

⏹️ ▶️ John the AMC app and website and the fandango app and website were all just

⏹️ ▶️ John not doing well like they they didn’t seem to be working at all I tried to buy the ticket and it would give me some obscure error

⏹️ ▶️ John you know something sort of like 503 proxy error from the back end and get properly hit all the way up into an iOS dialogue

⏹️ ▶️ John on my phone. I’m like, well, whatever. So there’s nobody there. It’s the middle of the week. We’re just going to go and show up and

⏹️ ▶️ John buy tickets. And we had no problem getting a ticket. You know, it was empty. Theater is the middle of the day, right? It was like a 10

⏹️ ▶️ John a.m. movie show, which I love. I love going to movies when no one else is there. But so

⏹️ ▶️ John we had to go to the physical kiosk to buy movie tickets. And the kiosk was like there was

⏹️ ▶️ John like a screen that the point of sale person used to do whatever they were doing is not facing us. And there

⏹️ ▶️ John was also a screen facing us. And at one point they said, because these are all like reserve seating in the MC theaters these days. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like which seats do you want when you buy when you buy tickets through the app? It also lets you pick seats. By the way, this is why

⏹️ ▶️ John we go to AMC because reserve seating movie theaters is the best. And they say, pick your

⏹️ ▶️ John seats. And the screen in front of you facing you shows the seat layout in the theater with like the

⏹️ ▶️ John ones that are taken, you know, dimmed out and the ones that are still available, highlighted or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John And they have big labels on like, you know, F1, F2, F3 or whatever. But the screen that’s facing you, it’s just

⏹️ ▶️ John a plain old LCD and they have like a giant, you know, printed on like a brother label printer

⏹️ ▶️ John label on the bottom of the monitor facing you that says in all caps, not a touch

⏹️ ▶️ John screen because because what you see on the screen is a bunch of seats and you’re like, I want the seat, the seat in this

⏹️ ▶️ John seat, like everybody just immediately reaches for the screen and touches seats ABC like you just touch the seats

⏹️ ▶️ John you want, right? Because if the screen is facing you, it’s right there. But to stop people from doing

⏹️ ▶️ John that, they have to have the sticker and not just have the sticker, which, by the way, is not part of the monitor. This has been added afterwards,

⏹️ ▶️ John added by the dealer and car parlance, right? The sticker. Also, as part of the

⏹️ ▶️ John spiel that they do, the sales pitch that the poor worker there is mindlessly going through

⏹️ ▶️ John every time they say, what show do you want to see? Blah, blah, blah. They go through the whole

⏹️ ▶️ John thing. There is a part in the little speech where they say, please select the seats you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John And remember, that is not a touchscreen. It was part of the thing. And they were saying kind of like bored offhand and mindlessly,

⏹️ ▶️ John that it is literally part of the script that they go through every single time. They have to warn every single

⏹️ ▶️ John person that it’s not a touch screen and have the sticker and I bet people still touch the screen. So I tweeted about this and people

⏹️ ▶️ John replied to me and they say, despite being told that it’s not a touch screen, despite the label, I also touched it or I’ve seen

⏹️ ▶️ John other people touch it or I work in a movie theater and people touch it all the time. There’s no way you can stop them from touching the screen. So I was

⏹️ ▶️ John really thinking about how, how fundamentally now, not just for like, little kids,

⏹️ ▶️ John this is the whole thing of like, oh, little kids are they funny they’re already swiping on every screen they see because they grow up with phones and iPads right?

⏹️ ▶️ John Everybody, senior citizens, adults, little kids, teenagers, everybody, if presented with the screen,

⏹️ ▶️ John and anything appears on the screen, it looks like there’s any possibility that you could touch it before any part of their brain

⏹️ ▶️ John kicks in their tiny lizard brain goes much touch screen. So this is like the default

⏹️ ▶️ John way to interact with screens to the point where if you ever have a screen that it doesn’t allow that you need a giant

⏹️ ▶️ John all caps label and a verbal warning and you still won’t stop people from touching it. And

⏹️ ▶️ John all this makes me think I posted about this guy. I just thought it was, you know, a funny extreme thing. But it’s a big change.

⏹️ ▶️ John And I finished straight by saying how long before Mac books need a similar sticker. Remember when Max was used to say

⏹️ ▶️ John like MacBook Pro right underneath the screen, right? Instead of saying MacBook

⏹️ ▶️ John Pro, it should just say not a touch screen in all caps. And this gets back to the touch screen laptop thing, which

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t think is a particularly great thing to have. I think it puts fingerprints on your screen.

⏹️ ▶️ John I think it’s gross. I don’t really think I would want one. But as every single person who has ever

⏹️ ▶️ John encountered a touch, you know, a laptop with a touchscreen says, once you have one, you will find

⏹️ ▶️ John yourself touching every laptop screen. Not all the time. Not that you’re constantly using it for touch, because that would be bad. There’s a reason you have a trackpad.

⏹️ ▶️ John There’s a reason you might have a mouse attached. But once it is able, once you are able to touch

⏹️ ▶️ John it for anything, you expect to be able to touch every laptop screen. It’s like one of those one-way

⏹️ ▶️ John valves. You know, before you have a touchscreen, fine, fine, no big deal. Once you have one, then you just expect

⏹️ ▶️ John it all the time. And this has been happening in the PC world. And so, you know, we talked about this before about the touch bar and

⏹️ ▶️ John if and when Apple will ever succumb to this trend and finally put a touch screen on Macs.

⏹️ ▶️ John And for me, it’s starting to feel like the time when Apple wouldn’t make a bigger phone and the entire market was saying,

⏹️ ▶️ John no, we love bigger phones. And it’s like, well, is it that big a deal? This big phones,

⏹️ ▶️ John you know, do people really want them? They’re kind of dumb. It’s fun. Shouldn’t be too big. Doesn’t fit in your pocket, blah, blah, blah.

⏹️ ▶️ John You could have all the intellectual reasons you want, but the bottom line is that people buy them and maybe they don’t, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John like a touch screen laptops, maybe they don’t love them or like them so much, but they just, if they just expect them at the expectation

⏹️ ▶️ John is that every screen in the world must be a touch screen. Otherwise, it’s basically considered broken by

⏹️ ▶️ John everybody of all ages of every generation, simply because occasionally the most natural, occasionally

⏹️ ▶️ John the most natural thing to do is touch a screen. Not all the time, not as your old soul mean of interaction, but sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ John your body, having been trained by smartphones and iPads and everything else, just expects to be able to

⏹️ ▶️ John reach out and touch the screen. And so rather than verbal and visual warnings on screens, it seems

⏹️ ▶️ John to me that we just need to make every screen a touch screen just for those cases where it does feel natural to

⏹️ ▶️ John touch the screen, even though I still don’t want anyone touching the screen on any of my computers.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Of course. Have you ever accidentally touched the screen on your own laptop? Hell no.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would never do that. Now, here’s the one-way valve. If I got a laptop that had a touchscreen, I bet I would

⏹️ ▶️ John touch it. And then I bet I would start touching my non touchscreen laptops and be annoyed. I mean, we’ve all done this, right? Have you

⏹️ ▶️ John ever pinched zoom a magazine I have. I have also

⏹️ ▶️ John reached for the forward slash key on my lap while reading a magazine to do

⏹️ ▶️ John a search for it’s like, you know, if you’re in a pager and Unix or whatever, and and gotten far enough

⏹️ ▶️ John where my finger is basically touched the top of my thigh and realize there’s no keyboard down there. You can’t do do a search

⏹️ ▶️ John in a magazine. I don’t think I think it might have swiped once mostly it’s pinched

⏹️ ▶️ John zoom that gets me I pinched zoom on paper happens all the time humans are dumb little monkeys

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah I I never touched a screen like my own laptop screen at all until

⏹️ ▶️ Marco about two years ago where it started happening about once a year I will be reading

⏹️ ▶️ Marco something and we’ll try to touch the screen to scroll it that’s that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John it’ll be worse than the simulator I’m surprised you haven’t done that with doing all your iOS stuff because what you’re seeing is visually like this is an

⏹️ ▶️ John iOS interface. You should touch it but you can’t.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah I think you know this plays into I think a lot of PC strategy issues like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple has been standing the line firmly that touchscreen laptops are not good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco People don’t want them. People shouldn’t want them. That’s not the right solution. But man the market just keeps

⏹️ ▶️ Marco saying otherwise you know and there’s a lot of downsides to it. There’s a lot of consideration that has to be done

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to do it well and yeah your laptop will be covered in fingerprints. They all

⏹️ ▶️ Marco already are. That’s the thing though. They all already are. Well that’s true. But like my iPad’s covered in fingerprints.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. Because the coding sucks on the 10.5 Pro, but also like that’s just the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco reality of having an iPad. You know at some point I’m gonna like have to wipe my 15-inch MacBook Pro screen on

⏹️ ▶️ Marco my jeans to get all those fingers off. But like that is what people are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doing and you know when at what point if it hasn’t already happened. At

⏹️ ▶️ Marco what point will most people go into an Apple store thinking, oh, maybe I’ll switch to a Mac,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touch the screen, it doesn’t work, and they’re like, well, that kind of sucks. Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s… Those are more stories I got on Twitter of people who work in Apple stores, of people who see it saying, people come into

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple stores, try to touch the screens on the Mac, and expect it to work. Do they just expect? They

⏹️ ▶️ John don’t know anything about Macs. They just come in, they expect it to work, and sometimes they think it’s broken, or will tell the person they think the thing is broken, and the nice

⏹️ ▶️ John salespeople will lead them towards an iPad in that case, but it’s just the expectation. I think and I think Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John reasoning behind like it’s not you don’t want to have your arm sticking out. It’s not a good way to interact with laptop. That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John all true. But like I think the thing they’re missing is like you’re not touching it all the time. Of course, most

⏹️ ▶️ John of the time you’d be using the trackpad, right? But just every once in a while, like when you find yourself swiping

⏹️ ▶️ John to scroll on the screen, it’s not as if you’re saying now I have to exclusively touch my laptop screen is the way to control

⏹️ ▶️ John it. That would be dumb. And Apple emphasizes that you would never if we took away the trackpad and said, you have

⏹️ ▶️ John to, the only way you can use your laptop is to touch the screen. Nobody would like that unless you can convert it into a tablet or whatever.

⏹️ ▶️ John But as an occasional input method, it’s surprisingly sticky and

⏹️ ▶️ John mostly because Apple has themselves to blame. They’re the one that showed that touchscreens

⏹️ ▶️ John can work and be insanely popular. There were touchscreens for years and years and everyone hated them and no one used them for anything. Apple

⏹️ ▶️ John is Apple’s own fault that touchscreens have raced through the industry to become the dominant

⏹️ ▶️ John form interaction with computing devices. Because the phone is now the dominant computing device. And the

⏹️ ▶️ John number one and basically only way that people interact with phones is by touching them. I’m not going to be touching the 8K screen on

⏹️ ▶️ John my Mac Pro, I can tell you that. Oh my goodness. Unless it lays down like a cool, like,

⏹️ ▶️ John what is that? Microsoft has the worst damn names. I cannot remember. Studio Books?

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey Surface Studio, I believe.

⏹️ ▶️ John Surface Studio, yes. I would consider that. If you want to get me an 8K drafting table, I would consider

⏹️ ▶️ John an Apple.

iPhone X user survey

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, so speaking of touchscreens, let’s talk about the iPhone 10 user survey. So

⏹️ ▶️ Casey written by Ben Bajaran, I think. Thank you. Ben writes

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that he and his team conducted a survey of iPhone 10 users

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and there’s a lot of customer sat to be talked about and the customer satisfaction for

⏹️ ▶️ Casey darn near everything is great. It starts even face ID, the customer satisfaction is between 90

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and 100% based on this one survey. Battery life to 90 and 100% things fall off a little bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey How it feels in your hand without a case fall off a smidge more still at about 85% for portrait

⏹️ ▶️ Casey mode Portrait selfies now, we’re down in like the 65% range

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but then we start talking about Siri and it’s an inverted

⏹️ ▶️ Casey hockey stick because we go from like 90s to 100s to 80s to 60s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to 20%. One out of five people is satisfied with Siri and that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I would like to meet that one out of five persons because who is actually satisfied with Siri?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey People who don’t use it? Like, what is this? But yeah, I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that there’s all that much to discuss here other than to say, I don’t understand.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Well, I was going to say, I don’t understand why Apple doesn’t see this as a problem, but that’s unfair. I think Apple Apple sees this as a problem.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And I’ve heard through the grapevine that there’s been a lot of hiring for the Siri team lately.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But golly, it’s more apparent with every passing day how

⏹️ ▶️ Casey broken Siri is. And God help me for sending Marco down on this tangent, but how broken

⏹️ ▶️ Casey modern MacBook keyboards are.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I mean, so keyboards aside, because we talk about that every other episode, what concerns me so much about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Siri thing is that it seems like Apple has just woken up to how bad Siri is,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like, since the HomePod came out and was panned for having bad Siri. But that was not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco new. All of us knew that Siri is mediocre to terrible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco most of the time for years now. And it really does seem like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco that caught Apple by surprise. It’s like yet another thing, similar to the laptops,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yes, I get worried when Apple gets so blindsided

⏹️ ▶️ Marco by reactions or problems that seem so obvious to its customers. I don’t know

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how they could have not known that you know just like I don’t know how they could have not known that the reaction to the MacBook Pros would

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have been so negative. I don’t know how they could have not known that Siri was as bad as it is until recently,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but it certainly does seem like they haven’t been doing much about it until recently. So that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is concerning. On the bigger picture though I was kind of curious, I’m not to make

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this all about how much series sucks because that’s not news and also will not change anytime soon. I’m a little curious

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to kind of morph this topic and steal it.

iPhone X performance review

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But one of my favorite bits in the show was the iPhone 7 exit interview. And I kind of want to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco do like the iPhone 10 mid cycle performance review.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was very well done, Marco. I’m very proud of you.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you. Yeah, I assume it’s a real thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John He watches The Office a lot.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco He knows the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John words, but only from TV.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And I know, John, you don’t have one. But I was at least curious to talk about, you know, just like what we think

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of the iPhone 10 now that it’s roughly halfway through its year of being

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the top phone. What do we think of it?

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, let me go first, even though I don’t have a phone, because I do play with my wife’s phone, and just to cap off this article.

⏹️ ▶️ John Because when I saw this article teased, I forget where I saw it teased. On some site, there might have been a

⏹️ ▶️ John loop inside or whatever. It was like an iPhone survey broken

⏹️ ▶️ John down by category, and you’re never going to guess which category had the lowest score. It was some kind of tease like that that was like,

⏹️ ▶️ John guess which and the bar chart is going to be really small. Right. And before

⏹️ ▶️ John I click through the link, I thought, I wonder which one it’s going to be. And immediately, I thought, it’s got to be face ID, right? Like everyone

⏹️ ▶️ John loves everything else. But face ID is the only thing that’s possibly shaky on this phone, right? And the reason I thought that

⏹️ ▶️ John is because I hadn’t even considered that Siri would be one of the bars, right? Had someone said, Oh, by the way, Siri

⏹️ ▶️ John is a bar. I’m like, Oh, that’s the one. But I didn’t even consider Siri would be one of the bars, because it’s just such a non

⏹️ ▶️ John such a non factor in the experience that my experience of using my phone, and I never see anyone in my family really

⏹️ ▶️ John use it for much of anything either. I didn’t even think it would be on the chart. And so

⏹️ ▶️ John on the iPhone 10 on this survey, you know, face ID is right up

⏹️ ▶️ John there. Like it’s not even like one of the lower bars. It’s kind of middle tier bar, you know, above 90%. And my experience

⏹️ ▶️ John of seeing my wife use her iPhone 10, she doesn’t care anything about tech. She’s not super impressed by the amazing technology

⏹️ ▶️ John that implements face ID. She has a few complaints about situations where it doesn’t work. But overall, I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John hear about face ID from her. Like it’s not it’s not an issue. It’s not a thing that she tells me she’s annoyed

⏹️ ▶️ John about or I never see her struggle with it. It has different trade-offs in Touch ID, but she has

⏹️ ▶️ John accommodated them and like I said, she’s not inclined to accommodate them because she’s dazzled by

⏹️ ▶️ John the GWIS technology. I’m dazzled by the GWIS technology. I think it’s amazing that it works, but as far as she’s concerned,

⏹️ ▶️ John it’s just her phone and she unlocks it and it’s fine. And so I feel like as

⏹️ ▶️ John a proxy for her for her satisfaction with the phone, I haven’t heard any complaints.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yes, she complains to me if there’s something wrong with her phone as if I made it. I didn’t make it, but she likes it.

⏹️ ▶️ John She likes her phone. She doesn’t complain about it. It does all the things it’s supposed to do. Uh,

⏹️ ▶️ John and even though she was coming from a success plus, right, even though the 10 is a little bit smaller, I haven’t even heard complaints

⏹️ ▶️ John about that in terms of screen area. Haven’t heard complaints about battery life. So I think the iPhone 10

⏹️ ▶️ John is a very successful product. Again, not using one myself. I can’t really judge it against the seven or the success

⏹️ ▶️ John plus or whatever. But it seems really good to me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it’s a mixed bag, but overall, very good. Face ID

⏹️ ▶️ Casey still I like it 80 to 90% of the time, which makes sense given

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the survey we saw that people apparently liked it 95% of the time. But as I’ve lamented a couple

⏹️ ▶️ Casey times on the show, when I don’t have my contact lenses in, I can only see

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very close to my face. And I, before anyone writes in,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I have tried all of the tricks, all of them. I have tried them. I have turned off attention

⏹️ ▶️ Casey detection. I have turned, I’ve turned up and down the speed to which the phone locks. I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Casey tried it. I appreciate the help. I do, but I’ve tried it. But yeah, especially at night when I don’t have

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my contacts in and the phone is, I mean, to be fair, the phone is like three or four inches from my face.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey If I don’t actively touch and fiddle with with the screen constantly,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I feel like it just almost instantly locks itself all the time. And it’s the weirdest thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John Isn’t there supposed to be an iOS update, speaking of close to your face, that makes it work better close up? Is that like

⏹️ ▶️ John a rumored thing for iOS 12? Or is that a thing that came in a point updater?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think it might have already come because it has gotten better, but it is not perfect by any stretch of

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the imagination. But in regular working, so you could

⏹️ ▶️ Casey reasonably treat that as an accessibility issue and I’m asking for an accessibility affordance. And

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I could, I can understand that argument, but, um, if in normal use,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t have the Ray-Ban sunglasses that apparently everyone else has. And so I don’t have any problem with my sunglasses on

⏹️ ▶️ Casey my Warby Parker’s work great. Um, I, even when I have eyeglasses on, which I occasionally

⏹️ ▶️ Casey wear to get me to like slightly less blurry vision, uh, it still works fine

⏹️ ▶️ Casey if I have a beard, don’t have a beard, it works fine. So in normal use, it actually works quite well. It’s only

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this nighttime, really, really close to my face that it all falls down. Um, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey lack of home button. I actually really like it like swiping to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get out of an app, swiping the bottom to go between apps, the up into the right, like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey L action in order to do the multitasking switcher. I really, really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey like the gesture based navigation and I am all in on it. And if I had to go back to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a phone that didn’t have this, I think it would be really, really frustrating. I don’t know if it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually is any faster, but gosh, does it ever feel faster,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey even if it isn’t? Um, what are the little, uh, emojis, emojis I’ve used them like

⏹️ ▶️ Casey five times. It was exactly what everyone thought. It was a flash in the pan. We’ve never looked back. I still think the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey idea is fair. And I still think having like seasonal emojis would be cool. Like say you only had

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Santa, you know, from, uh, November until January, and maybe you only had a Jack

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Lantern from like, I don’t know, September through the end of October or something like that. I think that would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey be a lot of fun. They haven’t done that yet. Uh, so Animoji kind of, eh, I love the,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I do like the size of it. Of course, I’ll always miss the size of the four series phones. I wish

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I had the, uh, gumption to use it without a case. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Casey using it with the Apple provided leather case, which is nice, but I’ve just taken it out of the case and it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is considerably thinner and feels much better without the case. But given that the back is glass,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am petrified to drop this thing and shatter it. So it lives in the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey case always. Oh, and we also talked about recently how much I, and I think

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco was the other one who said the same, love, love, love inductive charging. It’s such a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stupid thing on paper. Like who cares? Is it, is your life really that hard Casey that you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey can’t plug in your fricking phone at night? No, it’s not that hard, but it’s delightful

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to not have to. And I quite like that. So love the inductive charging, love the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey gesture based navigation, face ID, four stars out of five and,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh, and the cameras are really great too. In portrait mode, it’s decent in the right,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in the right situation, it can be incredible and in every other situation it’s passable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey unless your name is Joe Steele. I think that’s it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco All right so I don’t care about the portrait mode I do think that it is possible

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to shoot decent-looking photos with it that just isn’t the common case otherwise I do love the cameras that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the cameras are great. Face ID is not good enough it’s fine but it’s not great.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Very very similar to first-generation Touch ID but even a little bit more frustrating I I think sometimes and like why it fails

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or when it fails. I really think Face ID needs to get a lot better. And hopefully it will.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco That’s the kind of thing Apple tends to be pretty good at. I think it’s a little bit harder of a problem than Touch

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ID to make it that reliable, but I think they can do it. One thing that bugs me about the size

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is that, so I’m a left-handed phone user, even though I’m right-handed, because that’s just how my pockets worked out,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I grew up without phones first, then added phones. So I hold my phone in my left hand. almost

⏹️ ▶️ Marco every time I’m putting my phone back into my pocket when I’m done using it I will very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco frequently accidentally tap something on the screen with my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco left hand’s middle finger on the far right center edge of the screen on the way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco into my pocket and so this what usually ends up happening is I’ll

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be typing a message in messages where it has a little microphone button

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the right side of text field to send an audio message and I’ll turn the phone off

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as I lower the phone into my pocket the screen wakes back up or maybe I doesn’t turn

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it off right anyway on the way into my pocket my middle

⏹️ ▶️ Marco finger will accidentally brush that edge of the screen tucks the audio message button and I’ll hear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco boop as it goes in my pocket and the next time I was taking out my pocket there’s like a big audio block there waiting to be sent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey this can’t be the case because I have this problem and I hold my phone

⏹️ ▶️ Casey in my right hand. I think, and I actually meant to mention this, I always

⏹️ ▶️ Casey blamed it on my case. I felt like my case occasionally like the, again, the

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple leather case.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh my God, I just figured it out. Go ahead. There’s a feature that no one knows about where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if you hold the phone up to your ear.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Damn it, Marco, you got to give me a

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey chance.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh man, that’s it. I got to turn that off. So I think that’s exactly what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is. Okay, now my iPhone X is perfect.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John The

⏹️ ▶️ Marco feature is if you if you’re in messages, if you hold the phone up to your ear as if you’re going to talk on the phone,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it will do an audio message just by detecting the ear detection there. So what’s happening is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as I’m putting in my pocket, the screen isn’t fully asleep yet, and so it thinks

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m putting up to my ear because it’s getting blocked by my leg on the way into my pocket. Yep,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco think you’re right and so it starts an audio message, goes to sleep and realizes it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco doesn’t need that and cancels it.

⏹️ ▶️ John So the root problem is you’re not actually putting your phone you’re not actually hitting like the power button or something to put it to sleep before you shove

⏹️ ▶️ John it in your pocket because it once once it locks it’s not gonna unlock again until you have face ID on it like it’s not going to

⏹️ ▶️ John wake itself up and unlock itself and then do the proximity detection right? I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco don’t care this is the best thing ever that we have I guess solve this. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey this is what I thought John.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Settings, messages, raise to listen, turn it off. Now,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco if I hold it up to my headphones, okay, does nothing. So that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco oh man, that should solve it. Casey, I owe you

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one. Yeah, I’m trying this right now. Yep, I’m gonna turn that off. Anyway, but one

⏹️ ▶️ Casey way, I always blamed it on the case because I agree with you, John, that it seems like the phone isn’t entirely

⏹️ ▶️ Casey off. And I always thought that the case was just misfiring or something, because again, I’ve never really had the phone naked.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I was going to say, Marco, and you beat me to it, that I think maybe it’s a combination

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of both. Maybe, like, Marco, your finger is grazing the screen. Maybe my case is just

⏹️ ▶️ Casey preventing the sleep-wake button from being hit. But it’s a combination of that, and I think the proximity

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to our leg, or something that is causing it, or maybe it’s just the accelerometer, who knows, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one way or another, it’s causing it to think, oh, I need to start recording now. And so I cannot

⏹️ ▶️ Casey count the amount of times that I’ll feel a phantom buzz in my pocket, which as a religious

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Apple Watch wearer, that’s a very unusual circumstance for my phone to buzz. And so I’ll feel

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a buzz in my pocket, which usually is indicative that the phone is still on and it’s silent

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and it took the alert away from the watch, or I should say that the watch never got the alert in the first place.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And so I pick up the phone and I’m still sitting in messages and there’s like a 40 minute

⏹️ ▶️ Casey audio recording, just like you were saying, Marco, just sitting there. And so I’m not sure what the real

⏹️ ▶️ Casey issue is. I agree that raised to wake might be part of the problem, but I have flipped off

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that switch and both of us will have to see if that makes a difference.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, I wonder, there might also be some kind of issue where, because you know how the iPhone X will,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and actually I think the 7 and 8 also, will detect when they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco picked up and will like unsleep the screen because it’s been picked

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up. and maybe the detection of that is kind of misfiring where

⏹️ ▶️ Marco maybe we are putting it to sleep. Oh, it’s called raised to wake. Thank you all in the chat. So maybe the action of lowering the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phone from hand level back down to our pants, maybe that’s triggering

⏹️ ▶️ Marco raised to wake like right after we put it to sleep. Yeah, very well could be. I mean, if it hasn’t moved

⏹️ ▶️ Marco from our face by that much, theoretically, Face ID could fire during that time,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco read our

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John face on the way down.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like it is possible. But yeah, so that’s an annoying thing. I hope I just fixed it.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So getting back to my iPhone X performance review, other than that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco yeah, and Face ID kind of just not being fast enough or good enough,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I really like this phone. The battery life has been surprisingly good for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I don’t think I’ve

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John ever seen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it go past, I think, 20%. And even then, that’s rare. Most days,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m ending it above 50. And that’s partially because there are Qi

⏹️ ▶️ Marco chargers all over my place, and I love Qi charging. As you said, it’s so good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So I’m just really, really happy with the power

⏹️ ▶️ Marco situation on this phone.

⏹️ ▶️ John Speaking of Qi charging, a couple people were complaining on Twitter today about the AirPower map that still hasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John materialized. I know we’ve mostly forgotten about that, but it’s worth mentioning Apple did announce,

⏹️ ▶️ John did pre-announce a product that we’re still kind of waiting for. I’m shocked.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco Yeah, I mean like this is a really

⏹️ ▶️ John long one though. This is not like, oh, they pre-announced it. Like, it’s so long that I frequently forget that it exists. And

⏹️ ▶️ John I know technically probably we’re within like, they said, oh, next year. So basically any time until December 31st and

⏹️ ▶️ John they’ve technically met their deadline. But this is another case where it’s clear that something has gone wrong somewhere.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, and it’s definitely concerning that like this seems to be happening a lot

⏹️ ▶️ John recently. Maybe it’s because they made it white and they can’t make it the white. Well, the good thing about it is, as you said, it’s It’s not stopping you

⏹️ ▶️ John from wirelessly charging your phone, right? They did use a third-party standard and that’s basically saved

⏹️ ▶️ John their bacon because no one is stuck without a wireless charger for your phone. You can get one and

⏹️ ▶️ John they’re cheap and they’re plentiful and there’s good ones and bad ones, but we don’t have to wait for Apple’s thing. And by the time

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s thing comes out, everyone will have already bought them except for people who haven’t yet bought an iPhone X.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah. And the great thing about this is they are so cheap and they’re diverse.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a much larger diversity of Qi chargers out there than

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Apple would ever make themselves. There’s different form factors, different shapes, different sizes, lots of

⏹️ ▶️ Marco different price points, different intended environments for them to be in, lots of different styles and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco looks, different materials they’re made out of. So it’s actually really a wonderful little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco ecosystem. So yeah, I’m just very happy with Qi charging. It’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco one of those things, I’m sure the Android people are yelling at all of us, like, you I know we knew this

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like three years ago, just like the opera people. Like I’m sure opera had Qi charging first before everybody. Then the Simpsons had

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it, and then Android had it, and now we have it. Okay, so if we can set that aside, yes,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we all know that we were not the first to this, but it’s still really nice, and we now know this, so we’re very, very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco happy. Otherwise, like the size of the iPhone X, I think is perfect for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It is a little tall, and a little hard to get my hand around sometimes for like certain things,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but for the most part, It’s, you know, it is significantly more holdable for me than the Plus

⏹️ ▶️ Marco phones ever were. And I do love the screen space. I actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco hope they don’t shrink the margins anymore, like the bezel around,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’m worried that I’ll have more accidental tap issues when I hold my phone without a case, just like what

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I thought I was doing with my finger on the side. Otherwise, I’m just, I’m very happy with it. It’s fast.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I love the home buttonless thing. The one thing that I, like whenever I have to use

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Tiff’s phone or my iPad or things that are not the iPhone 10, what surprises

⏹️ ▶️ Marco me most is that I can’t tap the screen to turn it on. Like that one little

⏹️ ▶️ Marco touch, like where, cause even on the iPhone 8, tapping the screen does not wake the screen up. Tapping

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the screen to turn it on is awesome. I love that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, I forgot about that. That’s a very good

⏹️ ▶️ Marco point. Yeah, and then I also, and having swipe up to go home is great. I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco still don’t like the increased motion and gestures

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and time that it takes to force quit an app, but I very much like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco how fast it is to switch apps now because you just swipe across the home indicator. That’s so good.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like when you’re flipping between apps, that is fantastic. Given that switching apps for me is a more common

⏹️ ▶️ Marco action than terminating one, I’ll take that trade off. I do wish that,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know, they could do something great for terminating ones and I think they still can. I think if they do pull up and

⏹️ ▶️ Marco then if just swiping up in the app switcher on an app would terminate

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it instead of having to hold down first then do that they could significantly improve that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco control center sucks and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey see I disagree. I don’t understand why everyone has a burr up their butts about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco this so I’m finally accustomed to it a little bit more but now every time I try to put on notifications

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I miss and I put on control center like going for something that I have to pull down from the top of the screen on my iPhone

⏹️ ▶️ Marco X is a lot like plugging in a micro USB cable. It seems like it takes me

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three tries to get the right thing every time. I’m

⏹️ ▶️ Marco constantly pulling down the wrong thing for what I want. So that is one area that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think needs significant

⏹️ ▶️ John improvement. So where are they going to hide that though? Speaking of improvement, everyone’s like, oh, I hate control center and we all think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John going to be easy to reach, right? Okay, but then how do you fix it?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I think maybe it might be worth investigating combining the two screens like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco you know phones are optimized pretty well for scrolling, so maybe the maybe

⏹️ ▶️ Marco control center becomes just a a vertically scrolling thing where the notification just go below

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the controls you have picked like there’s enough space that they could actually do that if they

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because right now like they had this giant padding on top of control center where they basically have like what looks like a 150

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pixel tall status bar area. They can just shrink that down to like 40

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and if they shrink that down but with the default number of controls in Control Center you’d have room for like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco three notifications on above the fold. But you would put

⏹️ ▶️ John them at the bottom? Yeah. Put the notifications at the bottom? I think people like to peek at their notifications and are expecting

⏹️ ▶️ John to look at the top of the screen.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco But they don’t show in the top now they show kind of in the middle because they show a giant clock above it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m trying to think of solutions too. And like, you know, there’s always the punter, which is like,

⏹️ ▶️ John we’ll just make it a setting and people can decide which, which is their most frequently used control and assign it to do you want notifications

⏹️ ▶️ John to be the little ear or notifications to be the whole rest of the thing. But I don’t I don’t

⏹️ ▶️ John have any great ideas either. I’m just wondering, like, I think it’s a hard problem. Like part of the reason it’s crappy is because there’s no

⏹️ ▶️ John obvious good solution. Right? So I’m not sure what they’re going to do there.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey See, and that’s the funny thing to me is, and I will fully admit that

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I am the minority here. I am not trying to say I’m right. I understand everyone else disagrees with me, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually, I feel like I’ve been trained on where a control center is for a long time. Like, it’s not like I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey just figured this out yesterday. Like my body.

⏹️ ▶️ John People know where it is. It’s just hard to reach depending on how long your thumb is and how you hold your phone.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It’s a little hard to reach, sure. But I mean, I don’t know. I don’t feel like it’s as egregious as everyone else seems

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to think. And I mean, I’m just saying that’s just me. I’m not trying to say that I’m right because I can hear

⏹️ ▶️ Casey all the angry tweets and emails coming. But it’s just for me, I don’t think it’s that big a deal. And I’m sure it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey could be better, but I don’t think it’s that bad. I don’t understand why everyone has such a such a big issue

⏹️ ▶️ Casey with it.

⏹️ ▶️ John Well, you do understand it’s because it’s hard to reach. And it’s now there’s a potential to get the wrong thing like Marco

⏹️ ▶️ John occasionally gets some notifications when he doesn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco want to. Not occasionally, every time.

⏹️ ▶️ John And it was not a thing that happened with it in its old location, which is obviously a nonstarter because of the lack of one. One thing that no

⏹️ ▶️ John one has mentioned so far is the notch. So I guess we’re all don’t care about that.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey True. Yeah, I don’t really care. Yeah, I don’t really care either.

⏹️ ▶️ John I mean, like it’s it’s not ideal. And as I said emphatically many, many shows

⏹️ ▶️ John ago, Apple does not like the notch and it will go away once Apple can get rid of it

⏹️ ▶️ John as soon as they can get themselves over the branding that they’ve developed with it. And by the way, there’s been this rash of of notch imitator

⏹️ ▶️ John phones or even phones that don’t need to have a natural add one, sometimes even just like displaying the screen

⏹️ ▶️ John underneath where the notches because the phone OS has no idea that the notch is there purely for a sort of trade dress, you know,

⏹️ ▶️ John uh, imitation reasons to capitalize on, on Apple’s marketing. So I think the notch

⏹️ ▶️ John marketing is, is a real thing and that may make Apple keep it for a little bit longer, but Apple doesn’t like the notch either. But it’s great

⏹️ ▶️ John to see that basically everybody, like despite the fact that Apple doesn’t really want the notch and it is a necessary evil,

⏹️ ▶️ John it doesn’t bother people and daily use. You forget it’s there, you get used to it. Perhaps the only time

⏹️ ▶️ John you have any interaction with it at all is when you go for control center and realize there’s this divided region at the top because

⏹️ ▶️ John of the little ears and all that. But seems to be for all the talking we all did about it ahead of time

⏹️ ▶️ John and not knowing what it would be like pretty much universally. Nobody cares about the notch.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Oh, I will say one more complaint I have about it as I turned off the screen and realized

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the screen scratches incredibly easily and my screen is a mess. I have so many scratches

⏹️ ▶️ Marco on the screen. I’ve never had a visible scratch on a phone screen before and this one scratches

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like crazy.

⏹️ ▶️ John You’re putting in your pocket without a pouch that’s why.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John No but every other phone can tolerate it. So

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like if basically from what I’ve gathered from asking people and through that it seems like they did change

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the screen glass material to be more resistant to shattering by making

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it a little bit softer and therefore it now scratches more easily but won’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shatter as much. scratch. That’s wonderful for people who drop their phones and hope it doesn’t shatter.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I’m not one of those people. And so they definitely, you know, they made the wrong trade-off for me, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco can’t deny that.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s probably the right trade-off for most people

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco considering

⏹️ ▶️ John like how many shattered phones I see and how many people do drop their phones and how little

⏹️ ▶️ John scratches probably bother normal people. In fact, how little large portions of the population can even see the scratches.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah yeah, so I think this is my one major complaint about

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it besides that you know the other one major complaints I had is that the screen scratches way

⏹️ ▶️ Marco too easily and and the problem is like like you know some people say well why don’t you just put on a screen protector or something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the problem

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco shape of this for yeah first of all gross second of all the shape of this phone is like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because the screen just kind of curves right right down into the edge there and the back

⏹️ ▶️ Marco kind of curves right out of the back like this the the side profile everything is like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a gradual curve. If you stick something on it like a screen protector

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or any kind of like decal or anything, it’s not gonna follow that curve.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So you’re basically gonna have like an edge that your fingers will have to rub against along the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco edge of the screen where the screen protector just is like sitting on top of the screen and you

⏹️ ▶️ Marco have this this like rough edge that you have to like move your finger over all the time that’s definitely gonna start peeling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco up and getting dust under it at point like I just that is not very

⏹️ ▶️ Marco good

⏹️ ▶️ John to me. But that’s spoken like someone who was annoyed by scratches on their phone. Yeah. You’re also annoyed by the tiny little

⏹️ ▶️ John like again regular people have those screen protectors all the time they love them. Speaking

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey of screen protectors

⏹️ ▶️ John I saw my sister over break and she has a screen protector on her phone as well. It’s like

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know what it’s made out of like plastic it’s like one of those rigid screen protectors plus a giant case

⏹️ ▶️ John plus all sorts of other stuff. Anyway she was holding her phone in her mouth while she was was doing something else and

⏹️ ▶️ John it started to slip and she bit down to keep it from slipping and she cracked the screen protector with her teeth.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey This is a little more. So we’re

⏹️ ▶️ John talking about like, oh, I’m annoyed that scratches on my phone screen and I don’t want to put a protector on because it’d be this thin edge. Meanwhile,

⏹️ ▶️ John other people are biting their phones to break them and you know, and then so and I saw her like, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, a couple days later, same same crack screen protectors and like she’s going to get a new one. She can still

⏹️ ▶️ John see the screen. It still works. That’s how people use their phones. They’re not as precious as we are.

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Dark mode in WebKit

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⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thank you so much to Eero for sponsoring our show. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right, let’s do some Ask

⏹️ ▶️ John ATP. Don’t try to don’t try to skip my thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey We’re skipping your thing. No, it’ll take two seconds. It’s because you’ll never do it otherwise. It’s two

⏹️ ▶️ Casey seconds. Everyone look at your time stamps. Look at the clock right now. Two seconds, John

⏹️ ▶️ John says. You’ve taken longer in your warning than I will.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Okay, go

⏹️ ▶️ John ahead. And you still have to introduce it. I got to get my tab open. Look at this. Oh, I see how it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John I’m sorry.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Sorry, Your Majesty. All right. So Guy Rambeau, who

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is one of the people who has done a really incredible job of figuring

⏹️ ▶️ Casey out what’s going on within Apple based on like firmware releases and things of that nature. He’s also the host of a

⏹️ ▶️ Casey new podcast, which I’ve been enjoying called Stack Trace. He had found a few days ago now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that there’s a way to build WebKit in such a way that you you can

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get a dark appearance for WebKit, which is effectively for the purposes of this conversation Safari.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So there is a apparently a dark mode and a not so dark mode that you, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is the normal mode that you can find and engage if you know what you’re doing. So with that in mind,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey does that mean that there’s going to be like a full Mac OS dark mode rather than just the ridiculous

⏹️ ▶️ Casey looking menu bar that nobody should ever use?

⏹️ ▶️ John Or an iOS dark mode. I mean, the reason I found this interesting and worth notice that Apple did

⏹️ ▶️ John last release or released two ago, the dark menu bar option on Mac OS. It’s been there a long time,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco hasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it? Yeah, it’s been a

⏹️ ▶️ John while. Yeah, I mean, I’m always surprised when I see people use that, just like I’m surprised when I see people still

⏹️ ▶️ John rocking the graphite appearance in Mac OS. But anyway, but they didn’t do like a whole OS

⏹️ ▶️ John dark mode. They did, oh, you can have a dark menu bar, you can hide the menu bar, you can have a dark dock, but it’s not like everything goes dark.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so this is just WebKit. So it could be, this is just the next stage in the darkening of

⏹️ ▶️ John Apple’s OS, is that you can have a dark menu bar and a dark talk. And also, if you enable this mode, the

⏹️ ▶️ John quote unquote native controls inside your WebKit views also have a dark appearance. And we’ll put a link in the chat

⏹️ ▶️ John to two tweets showing the comparison of like, here’s what it would look like with dark mode off and here’s what it would look like with dark mode

⏹️ ▶️ John on. And WebKit of course is not just on the Mac, it’s also on iOS. So I just think it’s

⏹️ ▶️ John interesting that, I was thinking of this in the context of the pro work group people. Like

⏹️ ▶️ John one of the comments that those people might have added is, hey, I’m working in a dark editing bay

⏹️ ▶️ John all day. And when I switch out of Final Cut to the Finder or something, I’m blinded by the giant,

⏹️ ▶️ John completely 100% white windows on my desktop glaring out at me. And

⏹️ ▶️ John so it’d be great if I had an overall dark mode just for everything by default. So I didn’t have

⏹️ ▶️ John this, you know, unintentional HDR experience of being blinded by my screen. Or

⏹️ ▶️ John maybe the same thing for iPads. If you’re reading, you know, the web at night on an iPad

⏹️ ▶️ John or something. I don’t know. It falls apart with web pages. I get to control the colors of the background. But anyway, I thought it was an interesting

⏹️ ▶️ John and potentially, uh, pro angle on everything being dark and it will

⏹️ ▶️ John be a good match to the outside of Apple’s computers, which has Marco noted on Twitter the other day,

⏹️ ▶️ John also tend to be going in the dark direction. He’s got dark. I’m at pro and you were commenting that

⏹️ ▶️ John every single MacBook Pro you’ve seen has been space grade despite the fact that it is also offered in silver.

⏹️ ▶️ John So dark things are cool. And maybe there are more of them coming to Apple screens near you someday.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey That was relatively quick. I will concede. It was, however, longer than your introduction of the topic. Thank you,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Marco.

#askatp: Why remove 32-bit?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, ask ATP. Jacob Ford writes, what’s the advantage for Apple of ending support for 32-bit

⏹️ ▶️ Casey apps on iOS and now Mac OS? And what does this allow iOS to do? And then a kind

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of hanger on from Nelson Conley, why can’t 32-bit apps run on a 64-bit OS?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I can understand the reverse, 64 not working on 32, but why not for example, why is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it that Apple must phase out support for 32-bit apps on Mac OS? John?

⏹️ ▶️ John I think, yeah, combine these questions because they’re both both kind of asking the same thing. Like, why? What’s the point?

⏹️ ▶️ John Why is that? We’ve been talking about this as if it’s an inevitability that of course that 64 bit comes

⏹️ ▶️ John in 32 bit as we drop. Why? What the hell’s the point? There is actually a point.

⏹️ ▶️ John Aside from the just like it makes things simpler if you don’t have to support both 32 and 64 bits, then you can make

⏹️ ▶️ John a CPU that only supports 64 and you use fewer transistors, you don’t have to deal with 32, so on and so

⏹️ ▶️ John forth. But even setting all that aside, the most important aspect of 64 bit transition is Because

⏹️ ▶️ John when you have 32 bit and 60 ability to run 32 bit and 64 bit apps, all the libraries

⏹️ ▶️ John and frameworks and parts of the OS that the applications use also have to come in 32 bit and 64 bit variants.

⏹️ ▶️ John So even if the entire operating system and all Apple’s applications and all of your applications are 64 bit,

⏹️ ▶️ John you launch one 32 bit application, and it’s got to bring in 32 bit versions of all the

⏹️ ▶️ John other libraries. And that’s important because in modern OS is an iOS and Mac and everything. they use

⏹️ ▶️ John dynamic linking. And if you have 20 apps open that are

⏹️ ▶️ John all linked to the same system framework, you don’t have 20 copies of that in memory, you have one copy

⏹️ ▶️ John of it in memory. That’s important. So it’s that’s that’s memory sharing is important. You’d run out of memory

⏹️ ▶️ John on your phone. If that wasn’t the case, as soon as you launch one 32 bit app. Now you have two copies of that

⏹️ ▶️ John library in memory, the 64 bit version of 32 bit version. So the only way you can ever get the

⏹️ ▶️ John big win of not having to have both versions of a whole bunch of libraries in memory

⏹️ ▶️ John because you’ve got some 64 bit and 32 bit applications like because one 32 bit application will ruin it and pull in all of its libraries

⏹️ ▶️ John is to expunge 32 bit from the system to say we can’t even run 32 bit our CPU can’t

⏹️ ▶️ John run it so our CPU can be smaller and take less power and have fewer transistors and be simpler

⏹️ ▶️ John and so on and so forth. And since we can’t run it, we will never have both 64 and 32 bit copies

⏹️ ▶️ John of libraries in memory. So you save RAM, save battery power, you make it simple. That’s That’s why it’s kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of accepted as an inevitability that yes, once you switch to 64-bit, eventually you should get

⏹️ ▶️ John rid of 32-bit. The timing we can all debate about, but the wins are real and technical, and that’s why Apple’s

⏹️ ▶️ John doing this.

#askatp: Destiny nonsense

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, Juho Leonin must be finished. Anyway,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey he writes, what’s Oh, God, that’s right. Oh,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John you’re

⏹️ ▶️ John so you’re so it’s such a rush to get the ask ATP and look what’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey sitting there. This is the last question if you want.

⏹️ ▶️ John No, the next question is a

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey regular question.

⏹️ ▶️ John So forget it. We’re in the we’re in that section of ask ATP now. All

⏹️ ▶️ Casey right. So what is john’s opinion on destiny to and are you still playing it? There’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey been a lot of criticism of the downloadable content and microtransactions policies of the game.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Do you think those are hurting the underlying game significantly? And Casey asks the follow-on question, can you please

⏹️ ▶️ Casey answer this question in English?

⏹️ ▶️ John It seems unlikely. I was going to start with these stuff. Yes, I am

⏹️ ▶️ John still playing Destiny 2. This is this question says there’s been a lot of criticism

⏹️ ▶️ John of the DLC and microtransaction, but honestly, the things that are wrong, the most wrong with Destiny 2

⏹️ ▶️ John had nothing to do microtransactions. DLC is vague. You’re just saying like, you don’t like the expansions.

⏹️ ▶️ John The expansions haven’t been great, but you know, whatever. The core mechanics of the game

⏹️ ▶️ John are the things that have problems. And I think I said this in one of the slacks recently. It’s like,

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s the game Destiny 2 and there’s the second game that you get with Destiny 2, or

⏹️ ▶️ John not second game, the second entertainment product that you get out of the Destiny 2, which is participation

⏹️ ▶️ John in and observation of the development process of Destiny. This happened with Destiny 1 too, one

⏹️ ▶️ John as well, where it was almost like for three years, you got to

⏹️ ▶️ John play a game, but you also got to see the development of the game in real time with constant

⏹️ ▶️ John feedback and animosity between the people who play the game and the people who make the game and various

⏹️ ▶️ John ups and downs. And that’s my memories of Destiny 1, my good memories of Destiny 1 are very much tied up in

⏹️ ▶️ John that interaction between the player base and the ongoing development of the game. It’s not like they released

⏹️ ▶️ John the game and you just play it for three years. Like the game changed a lot in those three years, and it changed

⏹️ ▶️ John in response to and sometimes in opposition to the wishes of the player base. That continues

⏹️ ▶️ John to happen with Destiny two. It’s more frustrating because we feel like didn’t you learn anything for three years of Destiny one? Don’t you kind of know what

⏹️ ▶️ John people want? They made some bad guesses in the beginning of Destiny two, and they’re backpedaling on a lot of them. And that can be frustrating.

⏹️ ▶️ John But I am I have to admit, I am kind of enjoying seeing the game evolve just like Destiny one

⏹️ ▶️ John did, even though it’s kind of dumb that they seem to have forgotten everything and made some bad bets in Destiny 2. It’s also bad that

⏹️ ▶️ John the player base seems to have dropped off a lot because people aren’t willing to put up with this crap because they’re kind

⏹️ ▶️ John of frustrated. Like, again, didn’t you learn anything from Destiny 1? So I am still playing it. I do have hope that it will get better.

⏹️ ▶️ John It has gotten better from launch till now. And I still like it and I still

⏹️ ▶️ John go back to it when I’m not playing some other game.

#askatp: Wrangler or what?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Mike asks, in order for me to get back at John, I know you guys keep making fun

⏹️ ▶️ Casey of the potential Wrangler acquisition, but in all seriousness, I’m interested in hearing further discussion on this. I own two motorcycles and after a few

⏹️ ▶️ Casey friends have had serious life-threatening accidents, I’m about to sell them both and throw in the towel on bikes,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey period. One of the joys of motorcycling is the feeling you get when you’re outside,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey which has me thinking if I could sell the bikes and buy a Wrangler. So the question is, if you got a Wrangler,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what would you be looking for? Conversely, if not a Wrangler and you had 10 to 15 to spend on a used vehicle as a weekend toy, maybe some

⏹️ ▶️ Casey kind of convertible, what would you look for? Hard top, soft top, dependability and ease of maintenance would be key for me.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I will start, if I was going to get a Wrangler, I would have to do the terrible thing of getting a Wrangler

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Unlimited, which is to say a four-door Wrangler, which is blasphemous. It is a terrible decision, but it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey what I would have to do. I would get a soft top because hard tops are dumb and

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I don’t want to hear any arguments to the contrary. And I would probably get

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a Sahara. I would try to get a Rubicon, but they are really fricking expensive. That’s basically how off road capable

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and slash nice they are. I ha there are some off road, um,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey facilities, roads, I can only, it’s not really road, I suppose trails. That’s what I’m looking for trails near ish to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey me. And I like to think that if I got a Wrangler, I would go off roading from time to time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey And thus having something more than like the base model would be good, but I would basically

⏹️ ▶️ Casey get as much soft top six speed Wranglers I could afford. If I wasn’t

⏹️ ▶️ Casey going to get a Wrangler and I was going to get some other kind of used cars, a weekend toy,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I think in the 10 to $15,000 range, I would either get a Mustang

⏹️ ▶️ Casey convertible because, and I would never bring it to cars and coffee lest I murder somebody. Um, I would either get a Mustang

⏹️ ▶️ Casey convertible, a V8 with a stick, or I’ve always really loved

⏹️ ▶️ Casey S2000s, which would make John very happy. What with them being Hondas. However, they are quite old now

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and still worth a fair bit of money So I don’t know if I would want something quite

⏹️ ▶️ Casey that old, but they’ve always appealed to

⏹️ ▶️ John me You won’t fit in one you’re too big.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey No, I’ve driven one. I don’t know if I drove it. I drive it I thought I

⏹️ ▶️ John drove your hair is too

⏹️ ▶️ Casey big. My hair

⏹️ ▶️ John is too big. Have you sat in one lately? They’re really

⏹️ ▶️ Casey small. I haven’t been in one since ten ish years ago, but a little more than that But at the time

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I fit so anyway Marco, you haven’t talked for a while So tell me what would you do if you were if you were forced

⏹️ ▶️ Casey to buy a Wrangler and yes I know you’re gonna say not buy a Wrangler, but let’s try to play by the rules What would

⏹️ ▶️ Casey you do if you were gonna buy a Wrangler and or what would you do if you had to get a? $15,000 used car for fun.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I have never looked at or priced Wranglers, so I don’t even know What my

⏹️ ▶️ Marco options are except to say that I know I would I too would opt for the four-door version

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and I would want the I I know there’s an option to get a hard top and also have the ability

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to swap it out for a soft top. I would get that option because I live somewhere with winter. Steven

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Powell That’s true, except the hard top is exceedingly heavy even on a two-door Wrangler

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and very unwieldy because if you think about it, all the weight is in the back because that’s where the glass is. So it is

⏹️ ▶️ Casey a royal pain in the hindquarters to do that swap. And that’s why

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I would advise, even if you live somewhere with winter, I would still advise going soft top.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Alright, well, so what I would actually do, though, is take the option presented in the question to not get a Wrangler

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so the question was, you know, if you can get something for like basically $15,000

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or under used, that would be fun in the weekends that might also give you that, you know, that same kind

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of fun or a similar kind of fun as like, you know, having a convertible or something like that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and so for that criteria, I haven’t actually looked that deeply into what’s available, but I

⏹️ ▶️ Marco did a quick search before the show. So what I would go for, I would look at basically like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the small, relatively light, relatively sporty convertibles that are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco popular enough to find used in that price range. So that would be things like,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco obviously, the Mazda Miata, I think would be very high on the list. The Miata is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not incredibly fast, but is pretty damn fun. And they’re popular and they’re plentiful, so they’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco easy to find. And I did a quick search and there are plenty of them in this price range that look fairly reasonable.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I would also consider the Mini Cooper, not any of the crazy big like four-door ones

⏹️ ▶️ Marco or anything. The only downside with Minis is that because they are BMWs, they are very expensive to maintain

⏹️ ▶️ Marco once they’re out of warranty. So that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey not really,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco but but otherwise getting even worse than BMW for maintenance. We can go to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a used Cayman. The only problem is the Cayman is an expensive car, so getting one used has to

⏹️ ▶️ Marco be pretty old. You know like I found one that that’s a 2008. That was just it was

⏹️ ▶️ Marco like 1414 five or something. So it’s like just under

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the price ceiling. And it’s 10 years old and it’s a Porsche. So that’s not going to be fun to maintain.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey I

⏹️ ▶️ Casey actually just drove a friend’s Cayman a week or two ago. Very nice car. Very,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey very nice car. Really, this his was a 2015 I believe this came in ass. And it

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is a extremely nice car handles exceptionally well go figure.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Yeah, you can also do the Boxster which is similar in many ways. It’s also

⏹️ ▶️ Marco going to be very expensive for a very old one basically, but it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is possible to do. And then finally, I think one option I would very seriously consider

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is a BMW 1 Series. And first of all, they’re hard to find because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco they don’t sell that many 1 Series or didn’t sell that many of them. The 2 Series is too new, you won’t find any of them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for $15,000, But the 1 Series was pretty nice actually. And even like the 128 or

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the 135 also is another option. But even the base model, the 128, is available and convertible.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Not that heavy and it’s nice and small. And they’re pretty fun to drive.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco They’re not like, you know, the 128’s not going to be as fast as the higher ones. But it’s still pretty fun. And

⏹️ ▶️ Marco so, and that can be had in this price range. So, and what I like about the 128

⏹️ ▶️ Marco and the 1 Series and 2 Series in general, you know, I’m a sedan person. I like sitting at sedan height.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And with these, you are pretty much sitting at sedan height. With all the other cars that I’ve mentioned so far, you’re basically sitting on the road.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Like you’re sitting very low. Your perspective is very low on the road. You’re not

⏹️ ▶️ Marco quite as easy for other vehicles to see you if they’re higher up than you and they might merge into you. So I would actually

⏹️ ▶️ Marco very seriously consider for this role, a 1 Series.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John.

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t have to answer the Wrangler thing, do I? I would never buy one

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco of those. You

⏹️ ▶️ Marco definitely have to answer the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John Wrangler thing.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would get a two-door soft top and I would treat it like a dune buggy and I would only use it on the beach.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’m okay with that answer actually.

⏹️ ▶️ John I would never want to have it on a road. You would crack a smile. Yeah, no, it would be fun. Who doesn’t like

⏹️ ▶️ John a dune buggy? I just don’t want to drive it around all the time on roads. It’s a stupid car.

⏹️ ▶️ John Fun dune buggy maybe though. For a 1015K, Miata, the only other

⏹️ ▶️ John thing I might consider that has been mentioned is the uh what the hell

⏹️ ▶️ John the the frs uh yeah yeah what up brz

⏹️ ▶️ John toyota

⏹️ ▶️ Casey beru it’s ft86 now i believe but yes we’re all saying

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John the same

⏹️ ▶️ John thing i know that’s not a convertible right but it’s like it’s a cheap fun sporty car that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John cheap because it doesn’t have a lot of power but it’s like it’s kind of a throwback type of thing um and that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John like i don’t want a mini cooper i don’t even want the stupid fiat miata clone there’s not

⏹️ ▶️ John many convertibles that i would like besides the miata Obviously, I would take a came in if I could find one in the right price

⏹️ ▶️ John range. But you may pay 14 K for that came in, but it’s not going to be in great shape. And as

⏹️ ▶️ John soon as something breaks, you’re going to put another five K into it before you can sneeze because doing anything to it requires

⏹️ ▶️ John ridiculous amount of work. So that would be kind of, you know, squeezing in. So that’s yeah, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John probably what I would do, although like I have never actually owned a convertible, so I don’t know how much I would really like them. I

⏹️ ▶️ John think it would treat it a lot like the dune buggy where it’s just a fun thing to drive around. if I

⏹️ ▶️ John had to go to a store or didn’t live somewhere where it was sunny all the time, I would just say, can I get a car

⏹️ ▶️ John with a roof?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey You know, convertibles by definition have roofs. That’s that’s the convertible

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, John part. You know what I mean? Like,

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s what gets into like the, the like, SLK with the with the automated hard top.

⏹️ ▶️ John Like I want I, we talked about this in the window thing. Do you keep your windows open and closed? In general, I mostly keep

⏹️ ▶️ John them closed. I don’t want the wind blowing on me unless I’m doing that thing where it’s like, I just want to drive around in an open air thing

⏹️ ▶️ John like convertibles and things about roofs should go in summer places and beach

⏹️ ▶️ John places and that’s where they belong and every place else I just want an actual car.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Thanks to our sponsors this week Linode, Eero, and RXBAR and we’ll see you next week!

Ending theme

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Now the show is over, they didn’t even mean to begin, cause

⏹️ ▶️ Casey it was accidental, oh it was accidental.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey John didn’t do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn’t

⏹️ ▶️ John let him, cause it was accidental,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey oh it was accidental. And you can find the show

⏹️ ▶️ John notes at And if you’re into

⏹️ ▶️ John Twitter, you can follow them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco At C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that’s Casey Liss,

⏹️ ▶️ Marco M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M The Anti-Marco Armen

⏹️ ▶️ Marco S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-U-S-A

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s accidental They didn’t mean to, accidental

⏹️ ▶️ John Check my cast, it’s so long

Post-show: Moving violations

⏹️ ▶️ Casey So I have a, continuing the neutral theme, I have a question

⏹️ ▶️ Casey for you gentlemen. I was leaving a Declan’s preschool yesterday

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and the person in front of me came to a rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey and made a turn without his or her signal. So there’s a stop sign where you’re supposed to

⏹️ ▶️ Casey come to a complete stop and wait like three seconds or something like that, and this individual neither

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stopped, nor used to turn signal. And I got wondering which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey one of those things is worse. Because on paper, I would say a rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is worse because it’s less safe, but most people only do a rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ Casey when you can see everyone around you and you know that it’s safe, but

⏹️ ▶️ Casey not using your signal. I feel like everyone around me does that. And it’s really frigging annoying. So, I will

⏹️ ▶️ Casey probably say not using your signal is worse. But Marco, what do you think? Rolling

⏹️ ▶️ Casey stop or not using your signal? What’s more offensive?

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, I, well, hmm. It really depends a lot on the context. Fair.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And, oh, and also, a rolling stop is one of two moving violations I’ve ever gotten.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It was in college. We all make mistakes. I don’t, I mean, both of them are unsafe.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Both of them can be very dangerous and can cause accidents or hitting

⏹️ ▶️ Marco pedestrians or something. So if you’re forcing me to rank them, I mean, failing to signal

⏹️ ▶️ Marco for a right turn versus a lane change, are

⏹️ ▶️ Marco we distinguishing here? Signaling for any reason or just signaling for a turn?

⏹️ ▶️ Casey The context in this particular case was a person coming to a T in

⏹️ ▶️ Casey the road and they made a 90 degree right turn without a signal from a rolling stop.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey But I mean, I think to me not using your signal is, generally speaking,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I find that to be deeply unsafe and I think that that’s

⏹️ ▶️ Casey considerably

⏹️ ▶️ Marco worse. Was it a capital T or a lowercase t? It was a capital T.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Okay. And they were turning right? That’s correct. Okay. So it affected nobody.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Yeah, that’s fair. It bothered me behind them,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey, Marco but yes, you’re

⏹️ ▶️ Marco right. And so in this case, you know, a right turn at a T without a signal is

⏹️ ▶️ Marco not very harmful to anybody except your mood.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco And so and therefore the rolling stop would be the more offensive move.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey All right, John.

⏹️ ▶️ John So without specific context, I know you have a specific context to this thing, but the question is, like, in general, what’s worse?

⏹️ ▶️ John And I have to say, in general, I think the lack of signals worse, mostly because if you

⏹️ ▶️ John you wrong stops can be situational. Like we all know about

⏹️ ▶️ John political stop signs, but there’s a stop sign somewhere in your neighborhood where it makes no sense that there’s a stop sign there because it’s, you

⏹️ ▶️ John know, it’s barely even an intersection and visibility is, you know, 360 degrees from miles

⏹️ ▶️ John in every direction and there’s nobody ever there and it’s just ridiculous as a stop sign there. But somehow someone got

⏹️ ▶️ John a stop sign put up there and everybody rolls through it, right? Because

⏹️ ▶️ John there’s just there’s just no reason to ever stop. But I people do rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ John situationally. If it’s a busy intersection and it’s a four-way stop, everyone’s stopping 100% because you’re gonna

⏹️ ▶️ John do an accident if you don’t like that, that without trying very hard, people

⏹️ ▶️ John situationally stop. Now, maybe it’s a better habit to just stop fully every single time, but

⏹️ ▶️ John I don’t know if there are any real experienced adult drivers who literally stop 100%

⏹️ ▶️ John every single time at every stoplight. There are degrees of rolling stops. Like, obviously, you have to slow down to almost zero

⏹️ ▶️ John miles an hour, but if your wheel never comes to to a complete and total stop. It’s easy in stick

⏹️ ▶️ John shift cars. You have to shift back into first. If I have to shift back into first, I’ve stopped enough.

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey And remember, my cars have no power.

⏹️ ▶️ John My cars have no power, so I don’t even have the option of starting in second gear like cars with actual power.

⏹️ ▶️ John So in general, it is better. The turn signal one, I think, is worse because

⏹️ ▶️ John my experience is people who don’t signal, it spreads. First, it’s like, oh, I don’t signal

⏹️ ▶️ John here because there’s no cars around. No one needs to know that I’m signaling. but that habit sticks and they just stop signaling everywhere.

⏹️ ▶️ John It’s not like rolling stops where it’s situational and they just, you know, start doing it again when they need to. They just become

⏹️ ▶️ John non signalers. We’ve all seen non signalers. It doesn’t matter what they’re doing, turning left, turning right, changing lanes. Doesn’t matter. They’re just

⏹️ ▶️ John the signals don’t even exist. Right? Uh, and so that’s why I think lack of signals

⏹️ ▶️ John is worse because it seems to spread. And because people don’t do it situationally. Now if you give me any specific situation, it

⏹️ ▶️ John could be that, uh, in that situation, I would rather have you stop fully than do a signal

⏹️ ▶️ John because a lot of times People think everything is clear. Even Marcus said, oh, capital T intersection. I’m making a right turn.

⏹️ ▶️ John No one’s around. I don’t want to harm it anyway. The reason they have you do a full stop at a capital T intersection when there’s no cars for miles

⏹️ ▶️ John is because if there’s a crosswalk, you’re supposed to stop to check the crosswalk for some kid who’s about to run out. So when you do a rolling

⏹️ ▶️ John stop there, if you’re rolling too much, you’re running over a kid who you didn’t see because they weren’t on the road. And there’s no cars anyway.

⏹️ ▶️ John I can just make a right turn here, and then you just run a kid over. That’s why you’re supposed to stop at stop signs, even when

⏹️ ▶️ John it seems there’s nobody anywhere. So it really is situational when rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ John is good. But I think is that in general, the lack of turn signal seems viral, whereas rolling stops

⏹️ ▶️ John seems situational.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Well, and I feel like that actually plays into the ranking here. Like experienced drivers

⏹️ ▶️ Marco know that you can’t trust somebody’s lack of turn signaling

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to mean they’re not going to turn because turn signals are so unreliable

⏹️ ▶️ Marco as a as a signal like, you know, people could signal left and turn right people could not signal and turn

⏹️ ▶️ Marco all over the place of your stop in the middle of the road so like this it we know as as as like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco seasoned drivers we know the turn signals are not reliable as a source

⏹️ ▶️ Marco of prediction whereas I think most of us assume that if there’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco a stop sign almost everyone is going to stop or these come very very close to stopping so if it’s

⏹️ ▶️ Marco anyway there’s degrees of rolling stops you know if you’re really you know, if you’re if you’re not going into first-gear

⏹️ ▶️ Marco territory, I would that’s a fine line

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John between…

⏹️ ▶️ John That’s not a rolling stop,

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco that’s just blowing a stop sign. I like the distinction

⏹️ ▶️ John of like a rolling stop is you didn’t come to a hundred percent stop, but if like the cop might not even have given

⏹️ ▶️ John you a ticket because yeah you did, but like blowing a stop sign is like oh you just pretend a stop sign’s not there. That’s different

⏹️ ▶️ John than what we’re talking about.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Also like in the situation at the T, like if you come up to the capital T, you are turning.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco So whether you’re signaling or not, everyone knows you’re gonna make a turn and if happen to be turning right it’s that’s why i said like

⏹️ ▶️ Marco there’s really no harm done you are right if you hit somebody in the crosswalk that’s a pretty big problem but i

⏹️ ▶️ Marco i i wasn’t aware that was a that was like one of the factors here

⏹️ ▶️ John well it’s this thing it’s the thing people think is like there are no cars anywhere around and no one is in the road therefore it’s safe

⏹️ ▶️ John for me to roll through this thing and make it right and the place that you’re not looking is the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco sidewalk oh yeah no and so i and i agree that like the rolling stop is the more that’s what i’m saying the rolling stop

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is the more dangerous thing. First of all, because of situation like that. Second of all, because

⏹️ ▶️ Marco people don’t I think more people will assume that you’re going to stop at the stop sign

⏹️ ▶️ Marco than will assume that you’re not going to turn if you happen to not be signaling right now.

⏹️ ▶️ John Yeah, I think signaling I don’t want to throw more like, you know, the state is better than that state, but I really do

⏹️ ▶️ John find it changes a lot based on geography because I think for the most part for

⏹️ ▶️ John all the bad Massachusetts driver or Boston driver things and there are bad Boston drivers.

⏹️ ▶️ John Signaling is pretty consistent around here, whereas other states that I’ve driven in, signaling seems almost non-existent,

⏹️ ▶️ John and I’m shocked by it every time.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey Steve McLaughlin Yeah, Virginia is not great about this, and Virginia is particularly bad about running red lights, which

⏹️ ▶️ Casey is so dangerous. I don’t understand what the issue is here. And I’ve been,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey I’ve lived in Virginia basically since college, you know, with a couple of, with a short stint back in Connecticut,

⏹️ ▶️ Casey but for 18 years I’ve been here and I don’t understand

⏹️ ▶️ Casey how and why so many people run so many red lights so regularly.

⏹️ ▶️ Casey It drives me bananas. I don’t get it. Do you guys have

⏹️ ▶️ Marco the Pittsburgh left at lights? The what? So you’re on a you’re at a road you’re at a stoplight.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The opposing traffic that’s that’s going you know the opposite direction is you that’s currently stopped.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco The first car in in that line wishes to make a left turn. The light turns

⏹️ ▶️ Marco green for both of you. That first car jumps the gun and turns left right in

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, Casey front of you. Oh no, that’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Marco not

⏹️ ▶️ John that’s not the Pittsburgh left. That’s like every state in the northeast

⏹️ ▶️ Marco left right, and so the idea so basically like if you as the person going straight floor it

⏹️ ▶️ Marco when the light turns green, you will hit them. They just kind of do it because they figure like you’re probably not going to hit me, so i’m just going

⏹️ ▶️ Marco to gun it and go for it. So this was this was a thing that i learned in Pittsburgh that everyone. They were called the

⏹️ ▶️ Marco Pittsburgh left, but yeah, John you’re right. Everyone in New York does it too, but only in certain suburbs.

⏹️ ▶️ Marco It’s like it is kind of like micro regional around here. I hate that like that that

⏹️ ▶️ Marco is my pet peeve. Somebody does a pit left in front of me. I will hold down the horn and almost hit them

⏹️ ▶️ Marco because I’m trying to make a point that that’s not okay. It like that drives me now and like sometimes

⏹️ ▶️ Marco I will like if I if I know that I can beat them, I will just like floor

⏹️ ▶️ Marco it and just cut them off so they can’t

⏹️ ▶️ Marco, John That’s

⏹️ ▶️ John, Casey the opposite of defensive

⏹️ ▶️ Casey driving that is but what that is absolutely accurate However, what on the road can you not

⏹️ ▶️ Casey beat? I mean there are very few cars especially that you would see in a regular

⏹️ ▶️ John The reason people do it is not based. It’s based on attention. Like if he’s not paying attention He’s looking at his phone,

⏹️ ▶️ John right? The light has been green for a while The person makes the left is like that guy’s not apparently not going and here’s

⏹️ ▶️ John the great thing Massachusetts has this great thing called delayed green where their intersections still probably some of them

⏹️ ▶️ John around where where the light turns green for you, but you have no idea that

⏹️ ▶️ John the oncoming traffic in the opposite direction does not yet have a green light that you get a green light for a full five

⏹️ ▶️ John or six seconds before they do. It’s for you to make a left turn. There is no indication in the intersection.

⏹️ ▶️ John You don’t get an arrow. There’s no signs. You just have to know, oh, everyone knows that this intersection is delayed green.

⏹️ ▶️ John And so that’s that’s to drain the there’s no left turn lane is to drain the left turners before they come.

⏹️ ▶️ John So if you don’t know that and you’re afraid to make a Pittsburgh left, now you’re gonna have a bunch of angry people honking at you saying, what are you

⏹️ ▶️ John waiting for? Turn left! Because otherwise you’d be holding up the whole line, the single line of traffic. Delayed green

⏹️ ▶️ John is fun.